The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 69: Oscars w/ Cousin Sal, Wesley Morris & NFL Combine w/ Robert Mays

Episode Date: February 26, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Cousin Sal to talk the Oscars, Sly Stallone's speech and Tony Burton's death (7:00), and land best Oscar bets (22:00). Then, Pulitzer Prize winner Wesley Morris discusses the importance of Chris Rock's Oscar monologue (30:00), Alicia Vikander's ascent (38:00), Damon vs. Leo (49:00), and post-Oscar narratives (53:00). Finally, original Grantlander Robert Mays reports from the NFL combine (57:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, we have an action-packed BS podcast today. We have a little bit later, Wesley Morris is coming up to talk more about the Oscars, and Robert Mays, my old Grantland buddy, is at the NFL Combine, wherever the hell that is, and he's going to call in to tell us what actually happens at the NFL Combine. Right now, our old friend Cousin Sal,

because, for a lot of reasons, but mainly because we like betting, and the Oscars is on Sunday. And unfortunately, Sal, it's like everybody has too much information now and who's going to win and there are no fun bets to make. Are there any fun bets to make with the Oscars? No, there are no fun bets to make. I'll talk to you in September.

No, no, no, there are a couple. I know, you're right, though. It stinks because everything, you know, the main categories are, what, six of them, and I count four as runaways, really. Maybe three as runaways, but this is going to be the first thing I'm betting on in three weeks, and I'm very, very proud of myself since the Super Bowl ended. I know. It's really a great way to win.

Yeah, and February is always a sad month for you. You go on a funk. It's a little like the Revenant after Leo kind of works himself out of the physical state he was in and realizes his adopted son has been murdered and he's just trying to rally back. That's how I think of you in February. You're just trying to rally back. That's good. That's a good comparison. I guess we should have a blanketed spoiler

alert for all these movies ahead of time because we're going to have to discuss some of the plots, right? You know, we're in the office this week at The Ringer and trying to figure out why all of these bets are runaway bets and why there's no mystery anymore

with who's going to win and i think it's partly because of the internet and how sophisticated everyone is with a all kinds of stuff ranging from rotten tomatoes to the reviews to like academy members leaking information or whatever people have these models that if they hear different small samples of who's going to win, then they actually know who's going to win. But I would have thought the Leo thing wasn't such a slam dunk because I thought Matt Damon was great in the Martian. And yet Leo's a slam dunk. It's over. It's done.

Yeah, he was really good. He is right now minus 10,000. And he won everything. And really, more than everything, it's like these numbers are predicted based on the other awards, the Golden Globes, the FASAs, the PGA, SAG, and all that.

So if someone comes up with and says, 14 out of the last 15 Golden Globes supporting actors have won, or whatever it might be, then that's what makes it a slam dunk. And then Brie Larson. Brie Larson, too, right? She's like 40 to 1.

She's minus 4,000. She's already won six awards. Yeah. And I don't know. You know, for Leo, for actor, I like Damon. Damon's on the board at 60 to 1 right now. He's not going to win. But I just think Leo, you know, I don't know.

I didn't buy that movie. He chased the guy. He was dead. He chased the guy in the snow. I'm sure the guy left footprints. But he never would have caught up with the guy. And you know what? He didn't catch up with the guy.

The real story is that he never caught the guy. That's true. The guy came back. Yeah. Right. He's still out there. He's still out there. And the Revenant, I think because the brown bear is the only actor of color

kind of recognized that the Revenant is going to win. The Revenant is minus 220. I would say take that spotlight is plus 220 revenant won the golden globe and the bastard spotlight won sag but um between those two you like the revenant or spotlight well there's a whole scenario like if the revenant isn't gonna win best picture you could talk me in a whole scenario where the revenant just gets shut out and more people didn't like this movie than maybe uh the general public thinks so you could say oh i still think the big short at plus 500 is a viable bet because i think just the way the academy is and

how many different pictures there are it's almost like with the Republican nomination where you need a lesser percentage of the vote to win. And if, you know, let's say 30 percent of the people voting like just love the big short, it just hit them in their whole liberal. I hate what happened in the economy wheelhouse. And maybe that's enough. They don't tell us what the votes are, which drives me crazy. But it might only take 30 percent to win. So let's say a lot of people didn't like the Revenant, then that might open the door for Damon, but I don't know. Those odds are so crazy that makes me think there's no reason to even talk about it. Yeah. Well, they do have those prop bets.

Over, under six and a half potatoes made out of Damon's species that he tosses at Leo while turning. I think I go over. I don't know how many could fit in those pockets. That's not really a bet. I think you made that up. What? What about Eddie Redmayne wearing a yellow dress,

eight to one? I like that. Well, the most intriguing Oscar subplot now is the tragic death of Tony Burton last night. And now, first of all, he doesn't get to see Sly, who he's basically a five-to-one favorite to win Best Supporting Actor. I don't think anyone would have enjoyed that more than Tony Burton. I mean, in Russia, Tony Burton really kept Sly alive during those dark days before Adrian finally flew her ass out there.

We'll never forget how selfish she was with that whole thing. Just let Rocky fly by himself. Right. And what the kids watch on TV, we have to assume pay-per-view. It's established that Rocky's either going to die in this fight or come very close. But the kids are watching, and they have friends over. So that was great. Yeah, no babysitter.

The whole thing was ludicrous. But Tony Burton played Duke, who was Apollo Creed's trainer, in Rocky I and Rocky II. And then in Rocky III, Stallone goes to L.A. to kind of get the eye of the tiger back. And that's Duke and Apollo basically train him with Pauly, who for some reason at that point was in the corner, even though he was a lifelong drunk.

He was a lifelong drunk. Hey, Pauly, will you fix Rocky's eye? I can't. I'm drunk right now. And then in Rocky IV, Apollo dies. And now it's really just Duke. And Duke had some great scenes the cabin scene which I tweeted last night when he did the

Apollo is like a son to me and when Apollo died part of me died too but now you're the one that's my voice doing the Duke speech that is great thank you and now he dies yeah I feel bad

I always thought Duke should have taken it out on Rocky a little more. The fact that, we're just throwing the damn towel. Yeah. From that to, all right, I'm going to Russia with you. I'm committed to you. It's like, yeah, Apollo was his boy. And Rocky let him die right there. That's true.

Yeah, first of all, Rocky totally choked. I mean, let's be honest it was a choke job he was holding the towel for an extra 12 seconds well well well drago's just holding carl weathers by by the throat and just punching him in the face but um when you think about it like cliffhanger comes out i think seven years later and the guy in cliffhanger at the beginning takes his girlfriend on this ridiculous hike where they end up on some triangle mountain at the top of it. I don't even know how they got up there.

And somehow she doesn't know how to climb. And they have to get this whole helicopter up there to help save this woman who doesn't know how to climb, and they have to put this thing in, and there's this rope, and you've got to slide across this crevasse on this rope, which she didn't know how to do and she's nervous. And all of a sudden her equipment's falling and she's about to fall to her death. The boyfriend's just sitting there. He's on the other mountain.

He's safe. He's like, no, no, the rope can't support two people. It's like your girlfriend's going to fall to death. Sly Stallone goes out there, shimmies out to try to save her. He's holding on in the glove, and she falls to her death. And the guy's bitter. Sly's a bad guy. Yeah, the other guy's bitter about it.

And he's still mad about it months and months later. He's like, I didn't see you on the fucking rope. And then seven years earlier, Sly actually did kill Apollo, and Duke forgave him. And that's why Tony Burton is a great man. Exactly. He had the anger that Tony Burton should have had. Tony Burton should have been much angrier, especially if Apollo was like a son to him.

In fact, I think Duke didn't watch the movie because he said he was sick. But I don't think he liked Sly Stallone for what happened. I'm getting confused. That's what's real. So wait a second. They have – go ahead. Well, basically, if you think The Revenant's going to sweep with the three major awards, which are Best Director, Best Actor, and Best Movie,

in a ratu is minus 1,000. So 1,000 went 100 on him. Leo, it's like not even. He won the DGA. He won the Director's Guild Award. So that's a telltale sign that he'll probably win the Oscar. Yeah. In a ratu.

But you could bet the sweep. I don't even think that would help you get to even odds with the Revenant because the Revenant's minus 220. And are we sure there's no, with the Martian, where Ridley Scott didn't get nominated, there's no Argo potential with that? Just for director? No, he's not for director.

No, but that's my point. Just for the Martian. Yeah, but I'm saying, remember, Affleck didn't get nominated for director. Everybody kind of took it personally, and then all of a sudden Argo won Best Picture. It was like, oh, well, Affleck didn't get nominated, but you won the real trophy. There's no chance of that with the Martian. I think Argo was supposed to win, right? I think it was still a favorite.

Martian's 100 to 1. There would be nothing like it if that happened. Sometimes before the Golden Globes, it'll start off at 100-1 and then something will happen in the Golden Globes and it'll go down to like 8-1. It'll be 100-1 at this point. So really it's spotlight

at plus 200 or the big short at plus 500. I still think the big short could sneak in there. I think it's worth the bet. You think so, huh? Yeah, 5-1. Why not? It'd be really fun if it won. Can you see... Alright. There's got to be some shocker. Every year in the Oscars,

something surprising happens. Is it possible Sly doesn't win? Yeah, it is. It's a weird thing because they say the SAG award is the indicator for this, and Idris Elba won the SAG Award for Best Supporting Actor, and he's not going to win for this. Sly won, what, the Golden Globes in Critics' Choice. I don't know.

I don't like that Bridges Five guy. I mean, it's fine, but that's the only competition, right? The Best Supporting Actor, he's 4-1. What about Tom Hardy in The Revenant? He's's 15 to one i thought that was just too high i thought christian bale was actually the best i want fly to win but christian bale was out of his mind in the big short he's 25 to one i uh i i mean this is just me but i thought uh paul walker was amazing in fast seven especially with the c the CGI and the most emotional ending of the year. I mean, Fast 7, the Fast and Furious movies,

they just get cut out every year. This year was especially egregious because the Wiz Khalifa song at the end, which also became one of the three most popular songs of the year, was so effective with how they used it. I saw that movie. Grantland was they used it i saw that movie grantlin was still alive we saw that movie it was me rafe bartholomew dave shilling and mark lasante four dudes and we're sitting in this crowded theater and after that ended none of us could look at each other where it was like super dusty really like legitimately dusty oh yeah rafe i've never

seen rafe get emotional before and rafe was like he was really choked up and not even nominated. He's going to get emotional when Sly wins. He's going to get emotional. He'll just have a camera on him. So is it are there props for whether Sly will remember to thank a black person during his speech or no? There is an over under eight and a half words you'll be able to understand in his acceptance speech. There's also even odds that Talia Shire is screaming at him on the red carpet, you can't win. Oh, that's... It's a pre-Oscar show.

They should cut to her. You're going to do it! What was that, a Rocky III? Did they cut to her? Or Rocky IV, whatever. On the beat? You're going to... No, when he was about to do the final knockout bow? You're going to know when he was about to

do the final knockout bow. You're going to do it! It was like one of the worst cutaways. Oh, man. There's a step to one odd as he's making his acceptance speech. Mr. T yells, Hey, fool.

You ready for another beating? You should have never come back. That is... You know, if Mr. T crashed the Oscars speech, that would be one of the funniest meta moments in the history of pop culture, right? If he just started walking around.

With the feather earrings and the angry look on his face, it would be a great cutaway in the front row. Get that, white kid! Come on, Stallone! Yeah, I like slyness. I think, I mean, here's a movie that I think I mean here's the movie that I think is going to get screwed I think that director for Mad Max

should win I mean he's 5 to 1 George Miller that's the best movie with zero plot that I've ever seen I think and it's going to win 5 other awards like makeup, sound editing, costume film editing but not any of the big ones I mean look at a 2 and a-a-half-hour video game.

I needed three nights to watch it on cable last week. I really liked that movie. It was excellent, and it's really distinct. I thought that was the cool thing. I've never seen a movie like it. I showed my son like 10 minutes of it, and it got him so amped up, he got his 40-pound MMA dummy

and was just jumping off the couch on it. I was like, all right, this is a bad idea. He lost his mind. I was just going to say, you should show your son. He would love it. And I don't think there's a ton of profanity, or maybe there is, I can't remember. But, yeah, I mean, it was kind of like Avatar was.

I mean, it should get a little more respect than it is. 80 to 1 for best picture. And what's interesting is almost all the critics had it as one of like their best three or four movies and just was like, this is amazing. This is one of the best movies

of the year. Some people had it as their best movie of the year. Right. So. I'm like, for my upset, and I'll go with you

on Big Short if you want. Maybe there is an anti-revenant thing for that night. I'm going Kate Winslet 3 to 1 for jobs. Thought she was good. Alicia, what's her name, Vikander?

Danish girl. She's the favorite at minus 280. But I think, I don't know, Kate Winslet won the Golden Globes and the Bastards, and they like her. That could be a good steal at 3-1. That's a good one. I might join you on that one. Let's do it.

And a little something about Alicia Vikander. Here's a little something. Our cousin, Jimmy Kimmel, was accused of having a crush on her by his wife when she came on the show. Oh, when was that? Jimmy denied it. It was probably about three weeks ago. Jimmy denied it, but we later found out he worked out that morning. It's up in the air we don't know we don't know good how many what is the uh what's the list of see if i had a late night show like that my wife would be constantly accusing me of of of things

like that just like especially in the hd and just like there's one little smile goes the wrong way oh I caught that what is that I don't know how he deals with it you should have for your HBO show your first three guests would be like all hot shit could be Megan Fox just Alicia Vikander Mike from Homeland what's her name Brody's wife from Homeland

that would be too obvious Monica McElroy to Kerry Washington my wife would be on that one what the hell is he doing what kind of show is this just all all hot female guests that'd be great

that's a great game plan just be like I know what I'm doing quiet I know what I'm doing I worked out the research we're trying to get more female viewers. Exactly.

Hey, last thing about Room. I mean, it seems like Brie Larson is, there's no way she's not going to win. And yet when I described this movie to you, like three months ago on our podcast, on our Monday Football podcast, you thought it was one of the movies that we made up. I did think it was fake, yeah.

You kept waiting for the punchline. And I was like, no, this is actually the movie. This was the plot. She was great. The kid should maybe be in the best supporting. He'd be best supporting. He was fantastic. He drove me crazy.

He didn't cut his hair for as long as he did. I think that's the single most cringeworthy scene, spoiler alert, of all the movies when he's in that car trying to get out. Yeah, it was great. I agree with you. When that kid's in the car, that was, you just, I didn't see it in the theater. I can't even imagine what people were like in the theater during that scene because you're like literally squirming in your seat like you can't see it in the theater I can't even imagine what people were like in the theater during that scene because you're like literally squirming

in your seat like you can't handle it it was good best case scenario too but it was terrible to watch that the good news for Brie Larson is if she can just get through this speech

without pulling an Anne Hathaway on us. Amanda Dobbins at The Ringer is worried that there's some slight Anne Hathaway potential with the Brie Larson speech and is very preemptively worried about the backlash. How so? What do you think she's going to say? Well, if you remember, it can really go wrong with the Oscar speech. If people don't like it, it can kind of set the tone for the next couple years of how people feel about you. You know? Anne Hathaway

really didn't do anything other than she busted her ass and was in a bunch of great roles and worked really hard and people were like, oh, she's so full of herself. And a lot of it had to do with just that Oscar speech. So Brie Larson just needs to get in and out.

That would be my advice. Just be very gracious and just get out. Yeah. I know I was minus 4,000 to win this award, but I really never thought I was going to win this award.

So just thank you. Please thank you, everybody. And enjoy the rest of the show. Something like that. Yeah. That's what I would do or go the other way and go full donald trump and just be like i knew i had this category these other

wage these other actresses suck they're just terrible of course you guys are going to vote for me i like that you call them other waitresses that's that's the meaning they're not they didn't have a chance. Trump's whole strategy, it's really like the internet has come to life as a political candidate. It's like these are Twitter insults, but yet he's on a stage debating to be the Republican nominee.

It's really an interesting game plan. I'm laughing, but we have Rubio at six to one. Yeah. That was going to dig us out of some of our bad NBA bets. Yeah. And frickin' Trump is almost a lock now. What the hell happened? Is this really happening?

It can't be. You know what's sad is I almost emailed you or texted you a couple days ago about Trump was like minus 125. And I was like, should we just get out just just just hedge just hedge Rubio and I just would have felt like such a bad person putting anything on Donald Trump I'd almost rather just lose the money right you just at that point you just rather lose just fine I want to maybe talk to you he He's minus 360 now. Unbelievable for a Republican. But Hillary Clinton is minus 140 for the whole shebang. And whether you like it or not, that's the hedge against Trump, right? Yeah, except that doesn't help us with our Rubio bet.

No, we'll lose that, but then you can't see a car, right? What is going on? that, but then you can't see a car, right? No, I think Clinton, I think at some point everyone's going to reconcile their feelings about Hillary Clinton. Obama's old speechwriter wrote a really good piece today on the Daily Beast about Clinton kind of reevaluating, hey guys, like, let's seriously start thinking about here are all the good things that she's done. I think as Trump trump i mean rubio had kind of trump on the ropes yesterday it was so did you watch it he kind of went at him

he had to he had to it was good it was he didn't he didn't feel like uh like a robot totally he actually was kind of thinking on his feet a little bit i was was excited. Our recommendations are Kate Winslet at plus 300 and then a smaller kind of feeler out bet, maybe on Big Short, plus 500, you think? I would do that. I think it's down to 400, but yeah.

It's still good. And the others are kind of untouchable. And I like that George Miller for Mad Max, but it's just not going to happen. What about, does Sly mention Tony Burton during his speech? You know what, he should. He should. I really hope he remembers to, right?

He should. Are you going to get choked up during Sly's speech? I might. I might start punching. Remember when he was watching Tommy Gunn win the title in his basement of his $8,000 house in Rocky V? Yeah. And he's like punching the bag as Tommy Gunn. He's working the same combinations Tommy Gunn is on the shitty TV they're watching.

Right. I might be doing that. I might be doing that. I might be hitting a heavy bag as Sly delivers the winning acceptance speech. It was hard to feel bad for Sly in Rocky V when he accepted no money for Rocky IV for the Drago fight. He's no money. Right. This isn't about money. It's like, what? Somebody's making money from this fight. They're showing it on television.

There's no money. You don't want anything? Hey, how inconvenient can we make this? You'll fight in Russia. Yeah. Oh, and it'll be fight in Russia. Yeah. Oh, and it'll be on Christmas Day. Right.

And yeah, and you don't get paid. And you might die. Probably going to die. They're like, Rocky, do you want to donate your share to charity? No, this isn't about money. I don't want to help anyone. I'm flying to Russia on my own checkbook. That movie has a lot of flaws. I'm a stupid man.

Yeah. Well, hearts were on fire. That's true. He told, he totally shed the Russian security going up that 58,000 foot mountain. I'll see you guys later. I'm going to,

I'm going to climb to my own death. I'll see you later. All right. Cause, uh, plug the Oscar special. Yeah, it's going to be our best one. I think it's a. All right, Cuz, plug the Oscar special. Yeah, it's going to be our best one, I think.

Sunday night after the Oscars, Jimmy Kimmel Live, Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, is that Superman? Is that how you say it? Yeah. Jesse Eisenberg, Tracy Morgan, Mike Tyson, Nathan Lane, Matthew Broderick, and also there's all new mean tweets online right now. Kevin Hartson and George Clooney, Cate Blanchard, Costner Penn,

and hit me up at The Cousin Sal. And I'll see you at WrestleMania. Yeah, we're going to WrestleMania. It's happening. I told my son last night that you and the boys were going and he lost his mind. He's out of his mind.

And he also wants to see where John F. Kennedy got shot. That was the actual quote from him to see where John F. Kennedy got shot. That was the actual quote from him. Kennedy? John F. Kennedy. I want to see where

he got shot. I was like, all right, let's do that. We'll go. Let's have barbecue. That's a whole other conspiracy.

Yeah, he's very. I want to talk to you about, I know you're getting in Saturday. That Saturday is the final four.

Yes. Yes. Maybe we'll be final four. Yes. Yes. Maybe we'll be watching Tony Romo's house. Who knows? Oh. Our dude. We'll see what we can do. Romo.

The next quarterback of the LA Rams. Oh, no. Maybe like three years from now. But, yeah. All right. Cool. All right, buddy. Thank you.

Talk to you soon. Good job, A.M. Good job, A.M. All right. We're going to call Wesley Morris for the Oscars. But before we do that, let's talk about Slender Tone. If you're like me, you love exercising, you like walking around, you like playing sports, maybe you don't love going to the gym.

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now culture critic at the New York Times, Wesley Morris. Oscars Sunday. How excited are you on a scale of one to ten? I'm at about five. Five? Okay. It usually, it takes me a few days to get, usually on Sunday morning, I start going through all the possible scenarios. And then I get excited again. I'm in the middle of desperately trying to finish something before I begin my weekend,

which is basically going to be me sitting at a desk working on something else. But then every year, Sunday morning, I just get excited. I don't know why, because this year, I mean, officially, I'm not that into these nominees. There are very few categories where I'm actually excited about the outcome. And then there's, you know, the whole thing that's on top of this whole thing, which is that the race conversation. What? What race conversation? I know, I know. And I'm kind of tired of having it. And yet I feel like you can't,

you can't not have it, but I do have, I have to say, I don't want to, I don't want to, I'd like to actually talk about the nominees, you know, I mean, not that that's not that we can't do that, but I think that's the thing that's overshadowed this entire procedure in a lot of ways. Um, I don't want to have the race conversation cause we already had it six weeks ago and it's already been had a million different times. I, I agree with you that the nominees have been overshadowed. Okay. Yeah. I just want to say really quickly, my one big thought is I keep getting asked what like, well, you know,

about Chris Rock, do you think he's going to do a good job? And how do you, how do you, what do you think they're going to do? And I have no idea what they're going to do. But I will say that my favorite hosting job in the last, I don't know, in the post, in the post Billy Crystal era has been Chris Rock. And that show is generally deemed at the time a disaster and people didn't like it. But part of the reason people didn't like it was because he was dealing with the stuff that is happening right now in 2003 or 2004, whenever that hosting job was. And that was one of the funniest, realist assault on that problem in that industry that I've seen. I don't know why they would have invited him to do it.

I don't know what they thought he was going to do. But that just speaks to the disconnect between aspects of that industry and reality. But with that said, let's move on. No, no, I have an additional thought on that because I wanted to talk about this. Okay. Yeah, the race conversation that's been going on for six weeks. To me, the most interesting thing going into this Oscars, other than Best Picture, which is the only one that I don't know who's going to win. Yeah, me either.

Chris Rock's monologue. There's two separate things going on. We were talking about it in the office this week at The Ringer, like if we had had a website this week. The angle that I thought was sitting there was, I think this is the most, first of all, this is the most important Oscars monologue I think ever. I don't think anything has matched this in terms of expectation,

importance, importance of the subject matter, how the crowd is going to be receiving it initially. There's going to be some nervousness, I think. There's going to be excitement. I think he's going to have to almost win the crowd over at the same time he's excoriating them. How far is he going to go? Who is he going to ridic ridicule there's all these

parts but then you know the thing that i've been really interested in the last couple weeks is how invested the stand-up comedy community is in this monologue and like this really has a chance to be one of the great moments in stand-up comedy history and he's been at all these clubs you know in la i think a little bit in New York too, testing out his act and testing out things. And what's interesting is in the internet era, none of this stuff is coming out. People have been very, very cool

about not spoiling the material that he's been trying out, not taping it with their cell phones, not leaking the jokes out, because everybody's kind of in on this. This is one of the biggest standup comedy moments ever. And for him, if he pulls it off and it's great and it's awesome, this is kind of the last great piece of his career. It's almost like the MJ, you know, when MJ made the shot against Utah and then it was like the final piece and oh yeah, he's the greatest basketball player ever. Chris Rock's, I think, one of the three or four greatest stand-ups ever,

but this has a chance to be his defining moment. And that's this other thing that's at stake on top of all these nominations and categories and everything else that's going on. Yes, because I mean, to just put another point on your point, he also, I'm not going to say that he needs this, but I also think, I do think it's important for him to nail it for him, not Obama got elected, I thought for sure that Chris Rock would keep finding ways to insert himself into all of the crazy fucked up things that were happening in this country and he'd find ways to comment on them.

Instead, he basically remained silent until that Frank Rich interview in New York Magazine in which he just let everybody have it and it all came out. Yeah, that was one of the best interviews of the last five years. Yes, and you read that, and you were thinking,

where has this guy been? Where has he been? Because I've never felt like I needed somebody more to channel the exasperation, the infuriation, and the sort of sense of injustice done on a daily basis to a person who really is just in many ways doing a job and in other ways a symbol, in other ways a divisive figure by virtue of his just being president. But Chris Rock is somebody who I think better than Jon Stewart in some ways um better than

Key and Peele who I mean there are a lot of people got into this and were able to like capture this exasperation but I felt like Chris Rock was the person who sort of allowed us to be able to talk about this stuff in the way that we are currently talking about it through his comedy 17 years ago, 18 years ago, 20 years ago. Yeah, he, you know, there's this channel on the Slacker Radio. They have this comedy channel where you, it's actually a channel for anything. But if you like something you hear, you can kind of favorite it. So we've favorited, in my car, we've favorited the uh eddie murphy comedy channel so it's basically whatever they had some eddie murphy thing we've we hearted it and all this

different comedy comes up that's kind of tangentially related to him and a lot of chris rock's younger stuff is on there which you forget man his the oj stuff he did like 20 years ago my god i that would not fly now it's it's really really out there he's basically like you know ron goldman's driving around her ferrari and he's like i don't think he should have killed her but i understand you know it's like what it's like people would lose their minds but you forget he's been pushing the envelope for 20 years and this is kind of the final piece of the envelope pushing, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, one hopes. I mean, I really hope that he, I mean, he's got to understand. He clearly understands the sort of, the mess that places in and his position as a sort of facilitator or as like a maintenance maintenance person in that mess or like as a person who's just going to like put off a paint bomb and just make more of a mess. I don't know what his approach is going to be, but it's, it's going to be uncomfortable. And like,

I just been thinking about like where the camera guy is going to like put the cameras during that monologue, you know? Right. Like who's fate, like what, what's Meryl Streep if she goes, like,

where is she going to, I mean, I don't know. Like, who's fate? Like, what's Meryl Streep if she goes? Like, where is she? Is she going to? I mean, I don't know. Like, that's a whole other level of practice that you have to do as an attendee. Like, I have to have my Chris Rock monologue face because Brie Larson, obviously, he's going to come for me. Right. Well, one of the guys working on my TV show was saying how there's this hidden thing with Chris Rock. It's not that hidden, but it's I don't think a lot of people know about it.

He is like the all time standup connoisseur and is one of those guys, like he studied it almost like how, like I, like, like how I know the NBA or something. Like he's just studied everybody's act. He has this insane recollection for like, oh yeah, Richard Pryor in 1980, blah, blah, blah. And he's kind of was weaned on all of this great standup of George Carlin and Pryor and Eddie Murphy,

like everybody. And his whole life has kind of been leading to this moment, you know? Yeah. And I think there's going to be some apprehension in the first minute. Like what you said, I think people are going to be sitting there going, oh, is he going to come at me? I'm sure Jennifer Lawrence is going to be feeling that way.

Any white visible actor, I think, is going to be nervous during the first five minutes of that speech. Matt Damon should just prepare where he wants the skewer to go. Yeah. You just have to sit there with a big smile on your face. And it'll be interesting to see, like, if he's just great, if he's lights out, I think the energy will kind of ebb after that. I think people will be worn out and almost be like watching crunch time of a basketball game or something. Right.

Well, I mean, but here's the thing. Like, his being lights out great to us at home, I mean mean there's great in the room and there's great everywhere else right like yeah i don't know what his priority should be as a host right i mean is he gonna is he going to really host this show if he can come out and like tear the roof off in the monologue and we won't see him for like another 90 minutes. Right. I don't, this is another thing. I feel like he's not going to play to the room. I don't think. I don't think so either.

He's going to play to us. Yeah. And, you know, this is why I was so stupid when anybody who thought he should have boycotted, you know, and not done this or Pat, like, no, this is the greatest, this is the biggest audience he's ever going, this is the greatest, this is the biggest audience he's ever going to have in his life.

This is the biggest platform he's ever going to have. And this is the best chance he's ever going to have to, to do what his craft is to do what he's the best at, you know, and this is, this is it, this is game seven of the finals. So I, I, I, I almost feel like after that, it's going to be a three-hour letdown until we get to Best Picture. Because we know Leo's winning. We know Brie Larson is winning. Best Supporting Actress, I don't even know if anyone cares.

I mean, Supporting Actress, let's go through that for a second. Were you making a larger point? Can we go into this now? Yeah, let's go through that for a second. Okay. Were you making a larger point? Can we go into this now, or are we going to? Yeah, yeah, let's go into it quick, because Sly's going to win, so best supporting actress and director, maybe, to a lesser degree, are the only ones that are a little bit up in the air. Yeah, I mean, I think, I don't know, supporting actress, I mean, it's pretty clear that Alicia Vikander is going to win. I mean, to the excitement of lots of men everywhere and many women, too.

I'm just baffled by her. And there are people that we know in our lives who we like a lot who don't understand my bafflement. And I just don't get it. I mean, she's good in this movie. I will say that. But it's also one of those situations where the deck is stacked for her, because really this is a lead performance

that has been jammed into the supporting actress category for whatever reason. I mean, she's in as much of the movie as he is, and she's better than he is in the movie. But, I mean, the person who I would like to see win is Jennifer Jason Le Lee, not necessarily

for that performance, although she's really good in that, but she's somebody who, well, I'll just leave it at the performance. She should have been nominated and probably she probably should have won any number of times in the last five years or five, sorry, five years, 20 years. No chance. No chance. Because the people, the people who vote for this are mostly old people and they got

that screener and it was like 17 hours long and there's no way they watched it. There's no chance. I would bet 20% of the Academy actually saw The Hateful Eight. Three and a half hours or what is it? Three hours was the final? It's less than three hours. It's too daunting. They don't

want to. they're too old to fall asleep in the first 20 minutes and then there's a ton of blood. No way anyone made it through that movie. But I mean, yes,

you're totally right. She has no chance. But I'm just saying as a person who has loved her for so long and thought that she just was the best actress

in America or one of the best movie actresses in America, it's crazy that this is her first nomination and she has no chance of winning. Can I just tell you that she showed up in Burnt, which is a whole separate conversation.

I think she has like two or three scenes. Yeah, yeah. And it's just breathtaking. It really is. It's like breathtaking. You don't even know what to do. It's like, oh my God, she's in this? No. You should see that. what to do. It's like, oh my God, she's in this? No.

You should see that. She's really good in that. She's the voice of... Do you know what happens in that movie? Do you know the scene? No, don't tell me. Oh, you should just see it. I won't say anything.

It's an animated movie by Charlie Kaufman. He wrote it and co-directed it. And it's just about a lonely guy who will get on your nerves. But when she shows up, the movie does some really interesting things. And they're just classic. They're things that, despite their being very sort of demure in their way, are classic Jennifer Jason Leigh for how out there they are. It's not motion puppets. It's something.

People are down on this Oscar. I think this has a chance to People are down on this Oscars. I think this has a chance to be one of the best Oscars of all time. You have Chris Rock's monologue, which is going to be the most important monologue that's ever happened. You have Sly Stallone. You have Leo DiCaprio, who's been in our lives since he was living with the growing pains family in 1989. And we've watched this guy develop and he became the biggest star in the world and made some really interesting choices. And I don't know. I liked, I've enjoyed having Leo in my life the last three decades and I'm excited to

see him win. I like him. Whether the Revenant sweeps, whether that director wins back toto-back directors directing Oscars, which, FYI, really hard. How many people have gone back-to-back with directing Oscars? I mean, I'm sure there's one person that I can't think of who it is. I think it can only be like one or two people, and now I'm not going to remember who they are. And then Alicia Vikander, who is the most

beautiful woman in the world, and I don't know if anyone even realized this. You buried the lead. Go on. Defend her. What do you mean? She's going to win and people the vast majority of people who don't know, aren't that familiar with her work, are going to be like

oh my god, that woman's beautiful. Why isn't she a bigger star? That's going to happen. I mean, she did just get here for our purposes. I mean, for American movie-going purposes, she just arrived. Yeah. So, you know, it's just crazy to me that she's just, like, come from nowhere. I don't know.

I have nothing to say bad about her. I just feel like she should be in a different category for this prize. And I would rather see Rachel McAdams or Jennifer Jason Leigh, or even Kate Winslet, who I thought was fine in Steve Jobs, although I didn't like that movie that much. I know. For me, it's Jennifer Jason Leigh or Rachel McAdams. And since I know the person that Rachel McAdams is playing, I understand the crazy,

just the degree of difficulty it is to play her. Right. And as we discussed before, she didn't have to do any of that stuff, does it, and is really, really good. Do you think Mark Ruffalo would have had a better or worse chance of winning if he didn't have the one scene

in the spotlight where he was like, how many people have to die, Robbie? Or whatever that scene was. You know that's his Oscar clip. If they're doing clips this year, you know that's his clip. You know that in the ringer offices Chris Ryan does that speech like once every three days.

Oh, I can imagine. We got to do something, Robbie. It's great. It's so, I can't believe they didn't cut it out. How does it, no point in that movie does somebody tell, what's the director's name? Tom McCarthy. Tom McCarthy.

Yeah. Nobody just, hey man, it's a great, you add the right pace, right tone, right everything. But that one scene, man, you gotta, I don't know, maybe take that one out. You know, it's nominated for best editing, too. Just throwing that out there. And then, by the way, this whole thing's going to crest with, I could totally see The Revenant not winning. Sal and I just talked about this, the, uh, the, the, I, I, for some reason I'd keep thinking

about the big short with the surprise win and just that, how that movie might resonate with the Academy and all those guys in disbelief on the stage. Like it's really hard to get through the Oscars without one surprising thing happening. Yeah, no, I mean something, something interesting is probably going to happen from a, from a voting standpoint. Are you excited for, say the Revenant director's name, because you say it better than me. Alejandro Gonzalez Iñárritu, although he's just Alejandro G. Iñárritu now. You don't have to say the Gonzalez part.

Iñárritu. Are you excited for him to gush about how great Ridley Scott is for like five minutes too long during his acceptance speech? Is that an option? Yeah, I think that's a bet. I think that's a bet that should be on the board. That over under a second, that Aniratu will gush about Ridley Scott and what an inspiration he's been

and you can't believe he didn't get nominated. He'll do that whole thing. Yeah, that's going to happen. Does Leo cry? What does Leo do? Leo probably, I don't know. He's got to keep thanking the native people. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. How politically out there is Leo going to get? I don't know. I mean, he could definitely get crazy if he wants to. This is an Amanda Dobbins corner because she's very worried that Brie Larson could get a little Anne Hathaway ish in this speech. And people like Brie Larson now. And it's like she could mess that up with the wrong speech. I also think Leo could mess things up if he's, you know, it's like, all right, Leo, you know, you've been banging supermodels

for 25 years here. You're out four nights a week. Like, settle down with the whole how worried you are about everything. Like, you're worried about, you know, how many people are behind the red rope with you at four in the morning. Let's be honest. Come on, Leo. I mean, there are any number of avenues to go down with what he, if he were really worried,

dot, dot, dot. Yes. But. Listen, I like him. of avenues to go down with what he if he were really worried dot dot dot yes but i listen i like him i i think his heart's in the right place but maybe maybe tone it back like like three percent on all that stuff with the life you've led the last 25 years right this is the problem with the movie though right i mean it it seems like it's headed to doing the thing that he is doing in the speech, but really isn't like, it's not at all. It's not really enough for me, a movie about Native Americans and having seen it now for now three times. Um, I just, I just feel like it, it, it, it's a kind of missed opportunity in a lot of ways.

I feel like In Yeti 2 could have made the exact same movie. It might have been slight. I mean, it wouldn't have had a Leonardo DiCaprio performance. But, I mean, just the change in the casting would have done something really interesting to me if this Hugh Glass guy is somebody else. If he isn't Hugh Glass and he is just fully native, I don't know. I don't know what exactly,

because the movie is politically kind of confused about what it's doing. I totally agree. Can I ask you a question? Yes. How bad is the dream sequence the third time? I think the things that work lesser,

I mean, the things that didn't work in the first place, which is, for me, the ending. The traditional, yeah, to another party. So that it's not like the thing that he, you know, it is chasing the Tom Hardy character for the whole movie, um, to get revenge on him is,

is actually not his revenge. It, it, it, that doesn't feel anticlimactic to me, but it also feels kind of cheap. Like, okay.

These people who've been on the margins of the movie for the, for the last two hours, um, now get to sort of reap the, you know, you've basically given them their prize and they're going to spare your life because you saved his daughters. I have an important Damon versus Leo question to ask you. Yes. If you switch them in those two movies. We've talked about this. Yeah, yeah, I know. I want to bring you. Yes. If you switch them in those two movies. We've talked about this. Yeah, yeah. I know.

I want to bring it up again. It's fascinating. I'll talk about it all day. Because I've thought about it since we talked about it. And I think Damon would have been better in The Revenant.

That's where I landed. And I don't think Leo would have been as good in The Martian. No, well that's for sure. So that makes me think Matt Damon is a better actor. And I have't think Leo would have been as good in The Martian. No, well, that's for sure. So that makes me think Matt Damon is a better actor. And I have no – listen, not a lot of advanced metrics in that analysis, but for those two movies, Matt Damon's better in either movie.

I think the thing that we were talking about before was which actor can do the most different stuff. And what needs to change about a movie's inherent properties based on who's involved at its center. And if DiCaprio's at the center of The Martian, and this is no shot to DiCaprio, but I'm just going to say, all the NASA stuff just disappears.

Like Kristen Wiig, Chiwetel Ejiofor, all those guys, they're just gone. And it's just him on Mars by himself having a castaway. Yeah. For an hour. Yeah. And I just feel like there is a generosity of spirit with Matt Damon that DiCaprio isn't really – I'm not going to say it doesn't interest him as an actor, but it doesn't – the movies that he chooses don't showcase that. Oh, you're back with Matt Damon. This is great. Yeah. You've forgiven Matt Damon. Yes. I mean, look, I'm compartmentalizing is what I'm doing you know I mean I love him and I and I look Matt Damon to me and I'm just going to say this because I can say this um and you'll

understand and I think all black people and all people of color will understand this you you there's always a person in your life who you really like who just did some some race-oriented thing that you will never forget and not even like anyone even say that what he did was even racist yeah but i mean there'll just be a moment where like you'll just remember something he did and just be like yeah he did that you won't think about it all the time it's not gonna change your like commitment to him and in your friendship. It's not going to change your recognition that he is a generally good person. It's just this thing that happened. And you know it, you called him on it, and you move on. That's all relationships. But I think that's a particular category of interracial friendship. And look, I've met Matt Damon one time a long, long time ago.

I barely remember it. But I do feel like as a moviegoer, he is somebody. The thing that he does that's so effective is he really does. And the reason that Martian was a huge hit was because for like two hours, this guy is your friend who you want to come back to your house. Yeah. I agree. Not a lot of people could have done that.

Rondo was another one that let you down and you'll never forget. You had a tough year for people letting you down. Yeah. But you loved Rondo before that happened. Now you dislike Rondo. Oh, yeah. I kind of dislike Rondo after that i i still am amazed

that he just got off scott free for that whole thing listen i can't i cannot compare like what rondo did to bill kennedy versus what what matt oh no i'm not comparing those you know what i mean though yeah i know exactly what you mean we're talking about rondo staying in the dog house rondo's there He's not getting out He's like Brie Larson in the room He's just in there Not getting out

Alright so We have to go Give me your Chris Rock All that stuff aside Give me your movie Related narrative That comes out of the Oscars on Monday morning.

Or actor-related. Your Hollywood-related narrative that has nothing to do with race, Chris Rock, any of that stuff. Just flat-out movie stuff. Alianjo Inarritu wins Best Director for the second time. I think John Ford came to mind while I was thinking, and I think Mankiewicz are the two people, and this was like in the 40s and 50s. Mankiewicz and John Ford are the only two people to win back-to-back.

And it really changes the conversation we have to have about Iñárritu. I mean, he is a great director. He's got other problems as a director, but talent isn't really one of them. And he managed to make a movie that appeals to, I mean, it's a huge hit, and it appeals to a lot of people on a sort of fundamental genre picture level, setting aside the politics i mean that's a that's a huge deal he will also be now i don't have this at all for sure but i mean in the last 10 years how many non-american guys have won the directing oscar i'm trying to think of what the sports equivalent would be it's almost like like jordan winning six titles in eight years or something. It's just completely, it's hard to even put in perspective.

I mean, when you think of all the great directors we've had, to just make two great movies in two years in a row is almost impossible. And then to win the Oscar for best director in two years in a row, even harder. Yeah. And if it wins picture and director, I mean, that's the big feat, right? To get the Academy, get voters to not give you what, under the circumstances, because it's ridiculous to call a best director Oscar a consolation prize. What would be a consolation prize if, say, the, the Big Short or Spotlight wins Best Picture? I don't know. I mean, I just find that a really fascinating thing to think about. Also, Brie Larson, out of nowhere, to me, I mean, maybe to everybody, right? Like,

out of nowhere, Oscar winner. Yeah. And who knows where it goes? In a category that features Charlotte Rampling, Jennifer Lawrence, and Cate Blanchett, And Saoirse Ronan, who I think is better in Brooklyn than Brie Larson is in Rome. But that's just my business. All right. Wesley Morris, we'll read you in the New York Times. And we'll talk to you. Okay. I'll talk to you later.

Happy Oscars. Yeah, happy Oscars. Hope to get to see you in Los Angeles soon. We miss you. All right. I miss you too. All right. I'll see you.

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and check our newsletter out at TheRinger.com. We're going to do a little bit of an audible and talk football because it's late February and the NFL has never been hotter. No, actually, that's not true. But the Combine's happening and our old friend Robert Mays from Grantland is at the Combine. Where is the Combine?

It's in Indianapolis. It is at Lucas Oil Stadium, where it has been held since this stadium was a place. It's a very weird event, and I come every year, and it never ceases to be weird. You are the biggest football nerd I know. We watch football together. We watch one of the playoff games and

you made us rewind the tape because of some block that the right guard did and I was like, can we wait to see if they score a touchdown first before I rewind to get your little block pouring in? But the combine must be like an all-you-can-eat

buffet for you. It is in a lot of ways, all the drills and stuff. I don't really care about that stuff. Doesn't have much bearing in my mind, but every single coach talks, every single GM talks for the most part, all the scouts in the league are just at Indianapolis bars all week. So really all you could, all this place is is football conversation for five days if you want it.

And it can be as nerdy as you want. It can be as relevant as you want. It really is. It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet. Every option is on the table. So you're just wandering around St. Elmo's with holding a shrimp cocktail thing, just trying to bump into various scouts from the 32 teams? Is that what you're doing?

That's really what this is, yes. It's not just St. Elmo's. It's also the other steakhouses and the crappy bars that you can't go. These guys would never go to these bars if they had any other option, but because it's Indianapolis, they don't. They have to be at these places. They're trapped, which makes it perfect.

I love the Indianapolis Super Bowl, which happened the first year we were on Grantland. You didn't go to that one, right? No, I didn't go to that one. Yeah, I'm sorry. You were too young. It's all right, buddy. I know.

We didn't have the budget at that point. The Seattle-New England one was my first one. I mean, that being my first one, I'll take it. That's great. That's a great first one. But I love the Super Bowl in Indianapolis. I thought it was great it was almost like going to college and just kind of accepting where you were and making the best of it and that's exactly what it feels like that's their strategy it's like hey we're here st homos

is good uh we have some good bars uh you can walk everywhere and And it's like, great. I'm in. This is awesome. And it was a really great Super Bowl. That's really what it is. There's 100 hotels and three bars. The one I was at last night had like 40 shots on the wall, like different kinds. I haven't been to a place like this since I was 19. This is horrifying, but also kind of great. It's the best. It was one of my favorite Super Bowl locations.

I loved everything about the week. We had an awesome week. We were doing podcasts from the Bud Light Hotel. We went to the Hoosiers gym. I probably gained three pounds. My blood alcohol level was not great. Everyone's smoking cigarettes. Did they run out of lettuce?

Yeah, that's right. I didn't have a vegetable for five days. They didn't offer lettuce anywhere. I think I started smoking just because everyone else was smoking. I felt left out. And everything crested to my team winning the Super Bowl and then Brady overthrew Walker and we lost in the last four minutes and all that.

The weekend just went shot to hell. It was terrible. I mean, it sounded like it had a chance to be the greatest week of your life. It was really great. It was way up there. It really was. I think for Super Bowl trips, though, the best one, everyone always asks if we're going to do a Grantland oral history.

The oral history I want to do is the New Orleans Super Bowl, which was the Baltimore-San Francisco one. But that was House Eats 3. My body's never been the same after that you know it's almost like late night casino trips yeah you down constantly you know when you read about kellen winslow and that in that play at the double overtime playoff game in miami when they had to carry him off the field he's basically like i was never the same after that game that's how i feel about the new orleans week just never the same. I gave my best to New Orleans. Jacoby's probably 40% responsible for that.

That's when Jacoby had his alter ego, Bebe, that was created at the Harris Casino when he turned into a 1930s jazz guitarist for some reason. We're still trying to figure it out. But I love the Indianapolis. I think, would I, it sounds like I would like the Combine.

Am I crazy to think that? In what sense? I mean, I think you'd like it in the scene outside of i crazy to think that in what sense i mean i think you'd like it in the scene outside of the combine that's what i would like to come to the stadium every day yeah but it sounds like the kind of place really cool it sounds like the kind of place you would just bump into trent dilfer at some weird bar and you'd end up talking to him for an hour like i like that stuff that's exactly what it is i mean that's literally what it is it's it's the nfl spring break everyone associated with the league is here, and they're drinking. I mean, that's what it is.

And you really can, you're in proximity to everybody. I mean, last year I was at a bar in the West End, and Belichick was there. He was just sitting there. I mean, that's what this place is. What was he wearing? I can't remember. What do you mean you can't remember? Was he wearing his hoodie, or was he dressed like a normal person?

I think he was wearing a terrible button-down and some weird khakis. It sounds right, but it was nondescript enough for me to not remember. I think Belichick's terrible dressing during football games and practices has to extend to his real life, would be my guess. Yeah, of course. Also, the bar for football coaches and dressing is very low outside of les sneed and thomas dimitrov everyone at this place is dressed like homeless person who is the guy in the niners mike nolan the guy who's like trying to bring back the 1930s dress code on the sidelines

and he went like 5 and 30 well they had to make him a reebok suit you remember that because it had to be nfl sanctioned so reebok had to make him a suit. I think Del Rio did that once, too. It didn't turn out well for either of them. The Reebok suit is never a good idea. Alright, key question. What are people talking about at these combines? Because there's always like, what's in the

football zeitgeist right now? Is it who's going to be number one? Is it going to be what's going to happen with Kaepernick and Chip Kelly? What are people talking with uh Kaepernick and Chip Kelly like what are people talking about Kaepernick and Chip Kelly was a big question early in the week I think that the 49ers threw some water on that when Trent Baalke came on and said he's going to be on the roster and he's going to compete for the job so that was the question whether they were going to cut him because I think they owed him 13 million if they didn't release him by April 1st

yeah so that's over now after that kind of went away, it became the quarterbacks. So yesterday is when the quarterbacks came to the podium, Carson Wentz and Jared Goff. So because Tennessee has a quarterback and they have the number one pick, it now is really a matter of what Cleveland is going to do. So if Cleveland's going to take Goff or Wentz, and then there's also the thing with Cleveland where their entire organization just hit the reset button. So they have a 39-year-old GM who's never evaluated personnel before. That happens every year.

They hit the reset button every year. But this is the weirdest one. This is easily the weirdest one. Hugh Jackson is their head coach. They have a 39-year-old guy who used to organize, do contracts, but is now the head of their personnel department. They have a 28-year-old head of personnel. Their head scout is 28. And Paul DePedesta works there.

Baseball guy. It's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's never worked in football professionally. He played football at Harvard. So that's the thing, is they're a fascinating organization. They have a second overall pick, and they need a quarterback.

And there are two guys in this draft that they could theoretically take. So yesterday the big conversation was all about if Jared Goff's hands were big enough. That's the sort of bullshit that happens here. Who had small hands? Drew Brees? I want to say that maybe one of those guys did. It's more that it's the smaller guys who have big hands. Manziel's hands were

huge and russell wilson's hands were huge that's been the joke all week john elway came up yesterday and said i measured my hands this week because i had no idea how big they were no no one cares yeah it only matters if you can't grip the ball in cold weather because you have little tiny little person hands which doesn't isn't going to really be a factor. He has like nine inch hands. I think he'll be fine. You know how I evaluate quarterbacks. First of all, are you handsome?

Is the number one thing. Very, 80 to 90% of the time, the handsome quarterback is just, he just lives his life a certain way from like age 11. He's just a man. His girls like him. He's confident.

He's good at, good at playing quarterback. He's just a man. Girls like him. He's confident. He's good at playing quarterback. That confidence and charisma just keeps translating with very few exceptions. One of whom, of course, is Peyton Manning. Sorry, Peyton. But I would look at that. I would look at

size and mobility. So who has the size and mobility out of all these candidates? Wentz. Wentz is the guy with mobility. Goff is tall. Goff is like 6'4", 6'5", but he's a little on the skinnier side. Tough track record.

Wentz is a full 6'5", and like 2'35", and he moves. So that's the thing. That's what I want. But the other side of it with him, he's got all that, and apparently he's just uber confident. Is he handsome? I'll just tell you, I'm the best player in the strip he's not handsome he's got that andy dalt syndrome with the red hair all right kind of look to him that's a red flag yeah but apparently he just takes over any situation he's in he's just the man when he gets there oh and he just is

he has ownership of that stuff like just incredible leader that kind of guy but golf is like the natural like golf is like the natural. Goff was the best from the time he was a little kid. He's always been that dude. His dad was a pitcher, but he never had him pitch because he knew from such a young age that he was a natural football thrower. They didn't want to screw up his football. That's how good he was that young.

His dad just knew. Wentz was a super late bloomer. He was 5'7", his freshman year of high school. All right, so I know nothing. I've never seen tape on either of these guys, and I don't really watch college football. From what you just laid out, I would rather take Wentz because he's had to fight for it his whole life.

Goff's just been handed it to him. He's been great at everything, doesn't really have to work hard. It sounds like he'd almost be better off if he wasn't taken, if Wentz was taken ahead of him for the first time, Goff was kind of like, oh, wow. Now I've been insulted. I have to work harder. That's true.

Yeah, I think that's true. I think with those two specifically, he's definitely more in that camp. He went to Cal. It's not like he went to Alabama and started from day one. He did start from day one at Cal. I mean, I guess that's the thing. He was the first true freshman to start at Cal in like 30 years or something like that. The most interesting part of this whole thing, though, they're working out together.

Wow. So somebody's trying to mess with somebody's head. And they're working out together. So the best thing that could happen to Ben Simmons is if Ingram goes ahead of him in the NBA draft. Totally. He'll be one of the best 20 players ever if that happens. He'll be so insulted. He'll take that so personally.

He will lock himself in a gym and shoot 50,000 jumpers a day until he has a 20-footer. With Durant syndrome, right? Yeah. Odin going ahead of Durant was awesome for Durant. Bowie going ahead of Jordan was awesome for Jordan. Isaiah Thomas getting traded for nothing from Phoenix to the Celtics.

It's always great when that happens. Stephen Curry being underpaid. Well, yeah, that part of it. There's two things with this, though. Neither of them are going to be the number one pick. That's just not going to happen. So that's not going to happen.

And also, I think the factor of going to Cleveland, you're automatically downtrodden if you go to Cleveland. So there's a ton of motivation there. If you could be the guy that resurrected the Browns, I think that that adds another wrench to this. Good luck. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. What if you are the number one drafted quarterback,

but that's where you have to go and live your life? I mean, how many quarterbacks would they shoot up and spit out there? So I think going into that coasting, I'm not sure anybody's going to do that. So who is the number one pick? Who's the number one pick? Probably Laramie Tunsell, the tackle from Ole Miss. That's the chatter right now. There's a couple guys defensively can maybe hop up there. Joey Bosa, the kid from Ohio State. That's the chatter right now. There's a couple guys defensively

who can maybe hop up there. Joey Bosa, the kid from Ohio State, is really good. But if you're Tennessee, you have Mariota, you already have one good left tackle or one good tackle in Luan. Getting another one just to protect your investment

would make sense. But I don't have any idea what that franchise is doing half the time. So maybe they'll go in a totally different direction. Well, when they hired Mike Malarkey, I think that was a signed, sealed confession that they have no idea what that franchise is doing half the time so maybe they'll go in a totally different direction well when they hired mike malarkey i think that was a signed sealed confession that they have no idea what they're doing um i just on every single level it doesn't make any sense apparently the guy they hired could be their personnel guy though he's really good he was in new england forever and then he was just in tampa bay for a couple years working under jason light and he's really well respected.

So at least that's a step in the right direction, but the Milwaukee thing will never make sense to me. Can I make a, I'm going to make a prediction. I'm going to be right. Cause I'm always right with the NFL draft, even though I follow it about as little as anyone who loves the NFL, a quarterback's going first. We always go through this dance and it's like, oh, Cleveland's just, they're going to wait. And what's going to happen is one of these teams underneath Cleveland

is going to make a big push to try to trade up to number one and to try to pick the guy that Cleveland probably likes. And Cleveland's going to panic. And they're going to do something stupid. And they're going to trade up from two to one because it's total smokescreen by Tennessee, and they'll end up giving a first-round pick two years from now, along with the number two pick,

and Tennessee will end up taking the guy they were going to take anyway at number two. That's how this is going to play out. That hasn't happened in a long time, though. It's been a while since somebody traded for the number one pick. It's much easier now because with the new CBA, it's not that much of a detriment to have the number one pick. But the other thing is, how many teams need a quarterback that badly?

I'm looking at the top 10. I'm looking at the top 10 right now. Why wouldn't the Niners trade up from 7-1? Oh, man. That's a big move. I don't know. I think they have two quarterbacks and they're paying one of them $13 million. I think they have two quarterbacks and they're paying

one of them $13 million I think they ride it out with Kaepernick for a year that's my gut feeling hey Tate watch this Maze is going to have

a conniption why wouldn't the Bears trade up from 11 to 1 to finally get a real quarterback I don't know why you think I have a conniption with that

that doesn't super upset me I just don't how much do you have to give up I don't I think they think I have a conniption with that. That doesn't super upset me. I just don't know how much you have to give up. I think they'll be bad enough this year that maybe they can get back in the top 10 and just pick them next year. I'm fine with Cutler for one more year. I'm okay with it. Even though Adam Gase is gone now and it's all going to go to shit again. Yeah, that is. See, that's why.

You can't trade Cutler though, right? You're stuck with him cap-wise? Yeah, I think they're stuck with him this year, which is fine with me. I don't mind paying him this year. Last year was the year that was really bad. And they have so much cap room right now, and they have so little else on their roster when it comes to veterans. It doesn't matter that you're paying Cutler that much money.

They have like $60 million in cap room. They're paying no one else, and I'm pretty sure they're going to cut Martellus Bennett. So at that point, you have no veterans on your roster. So who cares if you're paying Keller? Sounds like a great situation for him. The one offensive coordinator who resonated with him and no weapons at all and a team in flex. He'll do awesome. Fox was talking about it this week. They've set the reset button so incredibly hard. There are no players on the team. Every single guy is like a seventh-round, fifth-round pick from the last four years.

It's amazing. There are no NFL players left. That forte is gone now. Unless they sign Alshon Jeffries, it's kind of over. San Diego is picking third, and we don't even know where they're playing next year. I think they're going to be in San Diego, which is one of the 17 worst ideas in the history of mankind. Why wouldn't they? How bad are the cap ramifications for trading Rivers right now?

I think it's pretty bad. I mean, his contract is relatively new, so they would get dinged really hard. I don't think they want to do that. They just brought him back. But what I would say is, what if they drafted a quarterback? Yeah, what if they did? Phil Rivers is very old. I mean, you already saw what happened with him. He sat behind Breeze. It wasn't a bad situation. You have a new guy if you move to LA two years from now and Rivers doesn't

want to go. I just think that you're not going very far right now if you're San Diego. You have way too many holes. Why not say, all right now if you're San Diego. You have way too many holes. Why not say, all right, we'll wait a year, let this kid sit for a year or two, and then figure it out later. I don't think that's a bad idea. You lived in Los Angeles. You're moving back to Los Angeles. You know what Los Angeles likes? Stars. I think they'd be crazy not to take a quarterback. It's not like they're going to win the Super Bowl next year. Take a quarterback, let Rivers groom him for two years, and then you're in a position, you're in L.A., and you might have a face of the franchise.

I mean, they're going to need one, especially if the Rams are going to be kind of— it's going to be a Lakers-Clippers situation with the Rams and the Chargers if they both end up here, I think. Because the more I've talked to people, there are a lot of over 40 Rams fans, and they're going to rope their kids into being Rams fans. And I actually think the Rams are going to succeed a little bit more coming out of the gate than people realize.

And the Chargers are going to be the stepbrother Clippers. So they need a face. The thing with the Rams is they already have stars. They have two stars on their team. They have Aaron Donald and Todd Gurley. And that matters because even though Phillip Rivers is really, really good, Phillip Rivers doesn't resonate like that, especially with young people. You're not excited to go watch Phillip Rivers play.

You're excited to watch Todd Gurley play. So that's the thing with the Rams. The problem with them is they are so staunchly opposed to going after a quarterback. Les Snead yesterday at the GM explained away why they're not going to draft one by saying you need your defense to be good to win games, which is him just convincing himself that Case Keenum is a real thing. Oh, no. Yeah, it was not fun.

I can't imagine Ramsey listening to that. You know who's not a real thing? Case Keenum. That doesn't work. He was talking about how they went 3-1 in their last four games because Case brought them some stability at the quarterback position. It was very hard to listen to. I'm really excited for the Chargers

to move to LA because I can't wait to see how Phillip Rivers handles the schooling thing. It's very hard to find the right schools for your kids and he has eight already and he's probably going to have a couple more. I really want to know if he's going to go public or private. Because with eight kids, I think you go public.

I'm going to LA. Oh, you think he's going to live? He's going to have to live somewhere. If they move to LA, I don't think he's going to come. Whoa, what was that? Oh, it's their they announced players on the PA here. I thought I was in a spot where it wasn't going to happen.

No, that was cool. Because people might have thought you were in your basement pretending you were in Indianapolis. See, you're actually there. No, I am not. I'm really here. What do they announce? What do they say?

Like, now running the 40-yard dash, Bill Barnwell? No, no, no. No, when the players come to the podium for interviews, they announce which players are coming into the room. Oh, that sounds riveting. Yeah, it's a fantastic time. Barnwell's there, right? He is here, yes.

I believe he actually came to the stadium today, which that's not really his scene. I was going to say, I'm stunned. Barnwell was never a big I'm going to the location guy, and now he's at the combine going to things. Yeah, I mean, it's a big week for him just in terms of chatting with people going to the location guy. And now he's at the combine going to things. Yeah. I mean, he was, it's a big week for him

just in terms of, you know, chatting with people and everything else. The same reason it is for everybody. Yeah. He doesn't see much value in the actually coming here,

which to be fair, if you're not reporting stories on these guys, there isn't much value. It sounds like if there was an NBA version of this, it would be the greatest

week of Zach Lowe's life. This is everything Zach Lowe has ever wanted. This is why Zach Lowe goes to the Summer League, just for the networking. This is the NBA Summer League. Yeah. It's exactly why Zach likes that, is why people like that. It's the same thing. How are things going at Sports Illustrated?

Going well, man. I mean, it's been really fun. I think I've gotten to do some cool stuff. I love this time of year just because you get to press pause a little bit and chase some fun stories, which I'm in the process of doing. So, yeah, I think they've let me do

a lot of things I like to do, and it's been a good time. I've really enjoyed it. I really appreciate the fact that they let me come because, you know, when Gremlin ended, there was some questions, you know? It wasn't all certainty, and it's been really nice. Well, at least they gave everybody no heads up whatsoever

to figure out what to do next. I don't know. They gave me two hours. Two hours is solid, I guess. Who do you like more, me or Peter King? Get the hell out of here. Good. I'm glad that one came down the pipe. Robert Mays, you can follow him.

Are you tweeting from the combine? You must be, right? I'm tweeting a little bit. Not a ton of stuff, but I'm on Twitter. Can you put one photo of Barnwell up there on Twitter or Instagram or something in some sort of combine-y type of situation just for my own enjoyment? I will try to track him down, yes. All right, please do.

And what is it? It's not real Robert Mays anymore on Twitter. It's just Robert Mays, right? Just at Robert Mays. I'm a real person, though. At Robert Mays. Congratulations on locking that one down. Good talking to you.

I will see you when you're in Los Angeles. Enjoy the rest of the week in Indianapolis. Thanks, buddy. All right, talk to you soon. That's it for the BS in Indianapolis. Thanks, buddy. All right. Talk to you soon. That's it for the BS podcast this week. That was a fun one. Thanks to MailChimp. They make it easy to connect with customers and sell more stuff. Free to get started. No expiring trial, no credit card required. They helped us collect over 100,000 subscribers for The Ringer's new newsletter in less than eight days check them out at

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framed a bunch of posters for me. Please go there because they're awesome and they did a great job and I put a bunch of them in my office. I'm going to give them a bigger plug next week, but they were very nice. Don't forget to follow The Ringer on twitter at ringer don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter at the ringer.com enjoy the weekend enjoy the oscars see you next week we about this bitch anytime y'all want to see me again rewind this track right here

close your eyes. And picture me rolling.