The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 74: Joe House and Greg Cosell

Episode Date: March 10, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons welcomes Joe House to discuss Holy Cross's Patriot League championship, March Madness (12:00), Durant-Celtics (17:00), Cleveland's bad body language (29:00), the Pistons-Cavs mismatch (36:00), and the resurgence of Dougie McBuckets (41:00). Then, NFL Films' Greg Cosell joins to discuss top free-agent signings (47:00), Osweiler bolting the Broncos (52:00), the Panthers' SB50 problems (59:00), Peyton to L.A. (1:08:00), and Brady's non-pass to Gronk (1:10:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's very special Holy Cross-centric, not really, but we're at least going to talk about them, episode of the BS Podcast is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor and favorite app for buying and selling tickets for sports and musics and maybe even events like a Holy Cross round one tournament game. Go to SeatGeek.com slash BS to start using SeatGeek and don't forget to download the free SeatGeek app. Enter promo code BS, SeatGeek sends you $20 upon your first purchase. Today's episode is also brought to you by SimpliSafe. There's no better way to protect your home unless you have the guy who coached Holy Cross and used a 1-3-1 zone to make March Madness. That guy's awesome. SimpliSafe has no long-term contracts and the best 24-7 protection for just $14.99 a month. Visit simplysaybill.com and get my 10% off discount. Today's episode is also brought to you by

framebridge.com. They framed 15 posters for me and I'm about to send them 15 more. They did an awesome job. Use offer code BS for 15% off your first framebridge.com order. And finally, today's podcast is brought to you by my new website, The Ringer. Don't forget to subscribe to our new newsletter, theringer.com. Subscribe. The newsletter launches Monday. I might even write something for it. How about that? You thought I was retired. I'm not retired. I'm still writing. Kind of. I write emails. I might make a comeback. The Ringer newsletter. Monday, we're also going to be announcing a bunch of hires as well that we are

very excited about. Stay tuned. Things are heating up at The Ringer. We're off. Clearing off for you. Oh, house. You know who's rolling? Through the Patriot League. Right on through.

Sorry, Lehigh. It's always fun to win in Lehigh. It really is. Those pesky engineers just couldn't keep up with our 1-3-1 zone. Where did the 1-3-1 zone come from? I don't know. It's so funny watching Patriot League basketball and seeing how stymied players are by the 1-3-1 zone,

and then you watch a Warriors game and just watch Steph Curry just carving apart defenses. Can you imagine if somebody tried to do a 1-3-1 zone against the Warriors, what would happen? I think they would make 53s. You can't do it. The way to beat the 1-3-1 zone, one of the primary Warriors, what would happen? I think they would make 53s. You can't do it. The way to beat the one three one zone, one of the primary ways

is penetration. And it was clear that Lehigh did not have the guards capable of penetrating. Yeah, it turns out in the Patriot League, not a lot of penetrating slash and kick guards. Not the kinds we're used to in the NBA. Yeah, I think there's a slight difference. So they hired this guy

who coached at northwestern and and was 63 years old bill carmody and both of us by the way bill carmody there's the most holy cross name ever yeah and he's even got the little accent uh we were both bummed out both of us i mean we went to holy cross you graduated in 91 I graduated in 92 and over the next 15 years as they systematically destroyed scholarships and basically ruined

sports at Holy Cross and I even wrote a couple columns about it for ESPN even though nobody outside of Massachusetts would possibly care about Holy Cross sports but to me it was a bigger you know it's just weird to ruin the tradition of a sports program when you had koozie and heinzen and you won the 1947 nc title and it

was just gonzaga the gonzaga model for the east coast was just sitting there and it drove us crazy Yeah, it's the two-part insult of having a really storied tradition of some incredible basketball history at Holy Cross, plus our post-graduation, it appears, disassembling of competitive sports where, you know, the easiest way for us to identify the thing that we connect over is, you know, the annual sports traditions, you know, the football team was good the entire time that I was there. And then it, that all changed, you know. It wasn't just good. We were pretty much undefeated.

We'd lose maybe once a year in football. Yeah, that's right. But then as I was there, by my last year, they'd gotten rid of scholarships. And what the administration didn't seem to understand was they were trying to make it more of an academic school, which succeeded. But the sports was the fabric that, you know, made people come back for homecoming and kept the alumni in touch. And in my opinion, it's almost an economic mistake not to have a better program because it makes me want to give more money to Holy Cross. You know, it bothers me that they just kind of threw sports away. And at that point, just go Div 3.

Let's join the NESCAC. Like, why even try this model? And then these last four games happen, and I'm back, baby. I love the model. We're in March Madness. It doesn't take much to win me back. Yeah, it doesn't take much. It just takes a 16th seed in March Madness, and I'm back.

That's it. And maybe hiring the 63-year-old guy was the right move. Maybe the move was to hire, like hire the old Normandale type. Well, it was good. He was 0 for 13 at Northwestern, so he was due. Yeah, that's true. He missed March Madness for 13 straight seasons at Northwestern. So he was ready at Holy Cross.

Did they just come up with the 1-3-1? Is that an end-of-season innovation? I don't know. I know my dad said they had a couple injuries. They do have some good players. I don't totally understand how things came together, but they were like a 300-1

shot heading into the tournament. They had to win the play-in game just to play the one-seed Bucknell and Bucknell. Really, it came down to just somebody making a crazy shot to send the game into double overtime. The old rebound, dribble back out to the baseline, whirl around three. That was one of my specialties.

Yeah, it never goes in. Your specialty was like the 16-footer, not the 24-footer. Well, I was not afraid to rush a shot at the end of a game. I think that shot's only gone in twice in my life. That shot and Ray Allen in the 2013 finals. I don't think anyone else has ever made it except for those two people. I'm mad at us for not putting 20 bucks on 300 to one. We were 10 and 18.

I've spent $20 on far worse things than that. Yeah, that's true. I did feel like they were going to win yesterday. I did too. I hadn't seen one second of them this entire season, but when they came out and I saw that defense and the energy they had, they were very comfortable getting out to the wings with speed, and I was really impressed with how long the cross was.

They were always getting hands on balls in the first half, which led to a lot of rebounds that I didn't think we had a chance at. We ended up getting out rebounded, but I was really impressed that the cross held their own on the board. It's all going to be great until we play North Carolina. And, Tate, who's your forward who has, like like these 20 rebound games every once in a while? Bryce Johnson. Bryce Johnson might have 30 rebounds against the cross.

And at some point, I'm going to get mad. I'm going to fire Tate. But I'm going to fire Tate during a podcast, so it's more dramatic. It's really going to hurt my feelings if UNC beats Southern Cross. I have a question. I tried to look this up before we got rolling here on Thursday. Rolling! Yeah.

Do we have to play in the first four? Do we have to play Tuesday or Wednesday? I just assumed we were in a playing game. I mean, who could be worse than a team that was 10-19 entering their conference tournament? How is there a worse basketball team than that? I don't understand all the rules. Because two of those play-in games are for, I think, like 12, 13 slots.

So there's only two that are for the 15, 16 slots. I don't know. We have to be one of the four worst teams in the tournament, right? Yeah. Of 68. Yeah. I don't think we're going to be a 14 or a 15 seed. It's not happening.

It is fun, though. It's good times. It's fun. It's good times. The 1-3-1 zone is going to stymie somebody maybe, hopefully. Who knows? Maybe we could surprise somebody. I love that dude Malachi Alexander straight out of the DMV.

He went to a high school here, a powerhouse high school in Prince George's County that, coincidentally, my boy Junior used to coach at. Really? Local high school coach, great legend, Glenn Forello, now at Paul VI, coached for 10 years at Eleanor Roosevelt in Prince George's County, home of Delonte West, Eddie Bazden, Delonte Holland, some D.C. greats. But I was excited to see Malachi represent for the DMV. So Malachi, really close to your heart, even more than that.

I mean, just from not only a local kid, but made like six free throws in the last minute so huge so i was in uh i was in my office yesterday because we were doing a whole bunch of stuff and of course jeff chow our ceo too cheap to order the sports package for the office what yeah hadn't done it yet just hadn't gotten around to it what's more important than like the extra ten dollars a month month on Time Warner for the package in our office? So we had no game, so I had to watch it on the GameCast. Have you ever really watched a game you've cared about on a GameCast in the last five years? No, never. Under no circumstances.

And I couldn't leave because we had a couple meetings, and I just had to kind of have the game on the GameCast. Yeah, I was slightly disappointed you were not participating we had a couple different threads going i know i couldn't see the game and i i get it we were we were live you know live uh texting and live emailing i know no simmons to be found on it i thought yeah you were off doing something else. These are busy times with the HBO show and with the ringer and we're hiring people and it's just, I just couldn't leave. Well, I'm fine

with it. Take care of the biz. You've got to watch the game live. I'm not whining. I'm just saying I had it on the GameCast, which was fine, but the GameCast will be like nothing will happen. Then all of a sudden five plays will happen in a row and it's almost almost like the game cast guy is just fucking with all the people watching the game cast. He's like, watch this.

It's probably for the best. Yeah, he's like, I'm not going to type anything for three minutes, and then I'm going to type in six plays in a row. Watch this. It's probably for the best because our point guard shot two for ten, and many of the threes that he took were not optimal. Well, we were up 55-38, and then all of a sudden it was like 55-51. Yes.

But in the last 30 seconds, Lehigh had the ball, we were up three, and it just kept going, Lehigh offensive rebound, Lehigh offensive. I'm just watching, and it's taking like three minutes to play out the last 20 seconds on this GameCast because the GameCast guy was just messing with us. Yeah, the funny thing is they ended up out-rebounding the cross by 10, but five of those were in the last 10 seconds. Yeah, it's not going to be good.

I know they're going to play UNC, and I know it's going to get really nasty. And then what's going to happen is they're going to beat Holy Cross, and then I'm going to root against UNC because that's how I roll. When I get beaten, I then root against. Remember that year we rooted against Todd Day in Arkansas? Yes. Remember how terrible that was? I actually liked that.

93 team was a good team, and we went against Arkansas in 40 minutes of hell. It wasn't any fun. I liked those guys. I liked rooting for Arkansas all season long in 93. And then we had to go against them, Todd Day, Corliss. It was not any fun. Yeah, Corliss and Todd Day. How much college hoops have you watched?

I started watching more. I watched the Duke-North Carolina game with great interest because I love the freshmen on Duke. And I don't understand. I have a theory, but I don't understand why Tate's boy Bryce isn't in the conversation for like a lottery pick, although he looks like an all-world player against Duke because Duke doesn't have anybody that can rebound. But the kid looks unstoppable against Duke.

I'm going to let Tate turn his mic on to discuss this. Tate has his own podcast now, by the way, on Channel 33. I don't know if you realize. What's it called? He and Mallory Rubin are going to do a little college hoops these next few weeks. Yeah, good time. Tate, why isn't Bryce Johnson a top ten pick? I think it's because he's old and I think it has to do with maturity stuff.

And also, Carolina still pushes the Marcus Page is our superstar angle. They don't give him the shine. When was the last time Marcus Page made a jump shot? Never. This whole season. He's been horrible. Maturity stuff sounds both vague and damning. Maturity stuff could go in a lot of ways.

What is maturity stuff? No, maturity and the actual growing up and playing 40-minute games. He has a little kid attitude sometimes where he'll slam the ball down and stuff like that. Sounds like he could play on the Kings with George Carl and Boogie Cousins. Exactly. I think he had 20-20s in both games against Duke, didn't he? 20 points, 20 rebs in both games against Duke, didn't he? Yeah. 20 points, 20 rebounds in both games.

What was he? You had like a 60-28 rebounding advantage or something in that game? Yeah, 65-21. That's a bad sign for Duke. They only have Marshall Plumlee, and that's the only big guy they have. They have a Milt Jefferson, but he's hurt, and he probably won't come back. And Ingram doesn't rebound. You know, he stays on the perimeter.

You know, that's a key point about Ingram, because I don't know know if you're a warehouse but the Celtics have the next three Brooklyn Nets picks. I've been watching the high lottery picks. I do like Ingram but what position is he in the pros? Shooting guard.

Like a three? He's like a hybrid two and three yes can i play him as my stretch four no i can't right because he's not going to rebound at all does he well we have no idea let me put it this way we have no idea he's got to come up to the dmv and have some cheeseburgers with me and put on 25 pounds of a combination of muscle and fat before we have any idea whether or not he can rebound yeah i bet he weighs 185 pounds exactly and kate k tries to like preach that he can play one through four all those positions but he doesn't he doesn't go inside especially not on the offensive boards i mean he'll get cheap defensive rebounds but he definitely

doesn't go in on offense to get rebounds can uh can't he just take pds like half of the nba so rude why why why not what's the i mean you know you don't have to indict everybody no i'm kidding it's not half it's like 40 but um all right thank you for your contribution um no he'll put on the weight it'll be fine i mean that's what they said about bradley beal by the way well bradley beal is there he's just jinxed i'm just gonna stop i don't there's no way i'm gonna do who i can't do he sprained his pelvis who sprains their pelvis the guy is jinxed it's the most almost bullets injury of all time. We had Mark Price's plantar fasciitis.

We had, you know, right after signing him, Sexy Rexy hurt his foot in a year that the almost bullets were going to do something. They were the real actual, they were the bullets then. And Bradley Beal sprained pelvis after a series of other, you know, stress concerns, stress injury in the tibia. I mean, come on. I remember I sprained my pelvis once in the Bahamas. No, I didn't.

That's so bad. I can't believe I just chuckled at that. Awful. I'm going to lay out the most important thing I've ever laid out in the Bill Simmons podcast. I've probably laid out more important things in the BS Report, but I know for the Bill Simmons podcast, this is probably number one. You ready? I'm ready. Here's how Kevin Durant ends up on the Celtics in July.

How dare you? Go ahead. I should have known. What do you mean, how dare I? Go ahead. Are the Celtics the seventh best team in the NBA right now? They are. They're the seventh best team in the NBA.

They're the seventh best record house. Congrats. They've won 14 straight games at home. They're going to end up in the high 40s. We're going to win our bet on their over-under. Knocking on wood. Don't want to jinx it. Knocking on wood.

They have Isaiah Thomas, Jay Crowder, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart, and Olenek. All under contract next year for, I think, like $27 million combined.

Right? Very good. Five guys you can have in a nine-man rotation on a winning team. And Isaiah's an all-star. I mean, Isaiah's one of the best 20 guys in the league now. It's incredible, but it's true. right very good five guys you can have in a nine-man rotation on a winning team and isaiah is an all-star i mean isaiah is one of the best 20 guys in the league now it's incredible but it's true the guy's like tiny archibald um their cap space next year if they got rid of jarebco

and they got rid of amir johnson just didn't extend them it's at like 30 million bucks right the cap's gonna be like i think I think, at least $70 million. They have room for two max guys. They're also going to have a top five pick from Brooklyn. They're going to have a Dallas pick that's going to be in the $13 million to $16 million range. They're going to have their own pick, which will be in the low mid-20s. They have two more Brooklyn picks in 2017 and 2018. And they have a Memphis pick that becomes unprotected around 2021. So they have a ton of assets. Um, Durant,

they could get Durant and Al Horford this summer. And if you're Durant and you're trying to win a title and you're like, screw that. Like, let's say he gets bounced in round two. Let's say they just lose in round two and it's a really unhappy thing. And he's like, screw that. Let's say he gets bounced in round two. Let's say they just lose in round two and it's a really unhappy thing and he's like, screw it. It's time for me to go. I want to go win a title. Where does he go that's a better situation than this Boston situation?

Is that the question? You're asking me that? That's a serious question I'm asking you. The answer is Golden State. The answer is Golden State. The answer is San Antonio. The answer is the Clippers. San Antonio can't afford them.

Cross off San Antonio. The answer is the Clippers. Clippers can't afford them. It would have to be a sign-and-trade with Blake Griffin. And? By the way. He's not. Let me just.

Hold on a second. Why is the Clippers a better situation than Boston? Chris Paul's going to be in his 13th season. I think the past 12 years you have answered that question. What is so good about the Clippers situation? They haven't even made the conference finals. And Chris Paul is at like a 10 in this prime. It's in Los Angeles.

It's not Boston. Boston's a top six market. Do you think they'd be in Boston? You will never go back. You've said it. You're on record in the BS Report, in the Bill Simmons podcast, everything on the BSPN. You are never going back. I was in the East Coast for 32 years.

That's the only reason I'm not going back. Well, that was enough. I'm going to go back at some point. And Kevin Durant grew up in the DMV. You know what? And he's not going to Boston. If we got Durant, I think I'd go back at some point. And Kevin Durant grew up in the DMV. And he's not going to Boston. If we got Durant, I think I'd go back. I think that's it.

I think I'd throw all this away and just go back. Well, this is great. You don't have to. Your kids, there's no danger that you're going to have to go back and do that to your kids. Because there is no scenario under which he's going to Boston. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. It's not the most ludicrous thing you've ever heard. I think it's important for you to continue to have dreams.

By the way, I got on this podcast today, speaking of dreams, ready to explain the logic behind the Caps winning the Stanley Cup this year after these radically unexpected events in my sports life. The Washington, D.C. Grudens making the playoffs, Kirk Cousins near all-star quarterback. The College of the Holy Cross in the NCAA

tournament. The Caps already surpassing the 100-point total. That's a delicious cash for Daddy House. Some wonderful odds in a future bet I may or may not have made back in October. Everything's lining up.

I supported that bet. You did not support that bet. No, the caps. You made fun of me for that bet. No, you got Justin Williams. I'm going to read the text. I told you that. I'm going to find that text and read it out loud.

I told you I like Justin Williams. And you got T.J. Asche. I like those guys. I thought that was – You made fun of me for making bets on the Caps. The only reason I made fun of it was because the Caps are just... They'll never win a Stanley Cup

in either of our lifetimes. That's the reason I made fun of it. I understand. Well, guess what? The Celtics are not getting Kevin Durant either. So we could have Kevin Durant, Al Horford, and we could have the top five pick. What if we won the lottery? What if... What if we got Ben Simmons too? We could have all Durant, Al Horford, and we could have the top five pick. What if we won the lottery? What if?

What if we got Ben Simmons, too? What if all three of those guys? Dream big. Dream big. Don't shortchange yourself. Let this dream go all the way out. Well, I'll flip this around. If Kevin Durant doesn't come to Boston this summer, he's a flat-out coward.

And he doesn't want to win, and he doesn't take winning seriously. And that's my takeaway. Stephen A. Simmons on the BSPN today. Kevin Durant, I know things about you. I'll come after you. Now, I do think I'm going to throw one more thing as evidence. You ready? Sure.

Who was the only team in the 2007 lottery with the balls to take Kevin Durant and would have? What do you mean? Seattle. The Celtics of Boston. No, they would have taken Durant one. Oh. Yeah. You know who knows

that? Kevin Durant and his family. They know Danny Ainge believed. Everyone else was taking Greg Oden, whose leg was two inches shorter than his other leg. I don't think that's true. Danny Ainge was like, I loved Kevin Durant. Here's another thing. A lot of people love Kevin Durant. Why did Kevin Durant... Why did he...

I'm sorry, why did Danny Ainge get fined in 2007 by the NBA? I don't know. Because he went to a Texas game. he went to a Texas game he went to a bunch of Texas games because that's how much he loved Kevin Durant one of those games he sat next to Kevin Durant's mom

Wanda and the NBA didn't like it and they thought that he had crossed the line of whatever rule there is where you can't talk to the pick before the end of the draft and they find him but that's how long he's known Kevin Durant's mom. That's a weird rule, by the way.

Yeah. What's the difference? Listen, Kevin Durant— They don't have a—there's no relationship. It's not like it's the NCAA with their ridiculous, you know, no-touch rules. Listen, Kevin Durant, if you want to go to a team that's always believed in you, you know where we are. We've believed since 2007.

Freezing cold. You know. OKC's much better. OKC where they signed him and they signed James Harden. I'm sorry. They signed him and they signed Westbrook to long contracts under the impression that they would be trying

to keep this dynasty together. And then they traded their buddy Harden. Right after they locked up the other two guys. Would you stay there if you were them? The whole playoffs yet to be played. We will have a lot more information about all of these movies. Well, that's the thing. So what if they have a very unhappy round two exit?

Then things that we might not have imagined possible could become possible. I don't begrudge you dreaming big. I want you to dream big. If he goes to the Lakers, he might as well just start dating whatever Kardashian is available and just go that route and just be like, I don't care about titles. Why would he go to the Lakers? I don't care about titles.

I don't care about titles. I just want to live in L.A. and wear sunglasses and be cool, and I'll drive a Bugatti, and I'll be awesome. He's not going to the Lakers. Well, that would be my takeaway if he went to the Lakers. If he went to the Knicks, I mean, he would just have quit on life at that point. I can't even imagine why he would do that. Where else is he going to go?

You really think that Clippers? What is appealing about the Clippers situation? Ballmer's been a disaster. Ballmer's like the non-racist Sterling. I would say he's not going, but that's funny, by the way. Thank you. He's not going anywhere. He is going to resign with OKC.

That's what makes the most economic sense for him. And that provides him the most options as all of the variables and uncertainties associated with this brand new salary cap, this enormous growth in the cap over this summer, a whole bunch of pieces will fall in place. The safest thing for him to do is to go ahead and max himself out, get that 10-year service under his belt, and be ready to go eat up 33% of the salary cap for wherever he wants to land next summer, summer of 2017-18. Well, the Celtics have the best salary cap situation in the most assets,

and they're already a top-seven team. I'm just pointing that out. They'll still have a chance to take a run at him next summer. They don't have to uh push all their their chips into the into the center this summer and for the record he does for the record for for any asshole out there who's going to put this in a transcript in a blog post and try to make it look like i'm not objective um i'm doing this as a celtics fan i'm not doing this as somebody who writes about the nba and has been on the NBA show. This is just purely me as a Celtics fan

laying out the case for why Kevin Durant should go to Boston and why if he doesn't go to Boston, that just tells me he doesn't care about winning. That's it. We've been friends a long time. Yeah, 1988. As, you know, fairly as possible.

When's the last time anybody accused you of being objective? Oh, that's a good point. I didn't think of that. I tried to stay pretty objective for the most part. The only time I lost it was when I was ordered free to spin. The only time I actually kind of my brain broke was when Cleveland won the lottery again

and I was on live TV. I was just so upset. I just couldn't believe they won it again. It was like they'd been the most incompetent I was on live TV. I was just so upset. I just couldn't believe they won again. It was like, they'd been the most incompetent team for like seven years. They completely screwed up the LeBron era

to the point that he left. And then they got three of the next four number one picks. I was just like, you gotta be kidding me. How does that team win again? I'm shaking my head. It's hard to believe.

It's really crazy. Anthony Bennett, out of the league, league by the way Out of the league Well that was the draft before But yeah no that was the Wiggins draft And And You know man You look at how they played everything

Cleveland Have you been watching them It's a fascinating You look at how they played everything, Cleveland. Have you been watching them? It's a fascinating— Frank, I saw a pop to the stat after they lost yet another— What was the—they just beat— They had a good win the other day. Yeah. They won last night.

And they had a good—. They played well against Boston. Boston came out on Saturday night, laid a big haymaker on them early, and then Cleveland just fought back. I mean, look, I know I overrate body language, and I'm always looking for stuff. The body language doctor does not like what he sees from Cleveland. And what they've done to Kevin Love's career is almost criminal.

He's like a 14-7 guy now who shoots 37% from the field and is a shitty defender. They lost to the Grizzlies. I was the one that I didn't like by three. They lost to the Grizzlies, and the Grizzlies, Tony Allen scored 26 points on them. Yeah, like Monday night. Yeah, Tony was.

What's shocking about the Cavs is how much they rely on J.R. Smith and Della Vadova. Those guys are out there in crunch time. Those are two of their five crunch time guys. Joe Johnson to come help out and take a shot at a ring. Not a good sign for them. There is a vibe. Now, I don't know. It's a shame you can't have Brian Windhorst on

because I would like some insider scoop on this. I'm glad you mentioned that. You know why I can't have Brian Windhorst on? Because ESPN won't let anyone from ESPN come on my podcast, which is fine, but it's just laying down the ground rules for what's going to unfold over the next few years. It could have been friendly, and it's not going to be friendly, is my point.

It's already unfriendly. It's going to be more unfriendly. I'm excited to see how unfriendly it can get. Just wait until The Ringer hires a public editor for ESPN that writes for The Ringer. That's going to get, that's going to get very unfriendly. Um, I would like to get a Cleveland insiders perspective on something that you're,

you just referenced with the body language doctor. Yeah. Um, it looks like there's a little bit of the inmates running the asylum. Yes. That's the vibe I get. A little bit. You agree with that? Yeah. A little bit's the vibe I get. A little bit? You agree with that?

Yeah, a little bit. That's your take? A little bit? They gave Tristan Thompson a max contract and have LeBron's hand-picked coach, and LeBron's made most of the trades and the moves? I'm going to say it's a lot of it. Well, I mean more the performance over the last 22, 23 games.

When they lost to the Grizzlies, they've been 14-7 since they fired Blatt, since LeBron fired Blatt. They've been pushing this up-tempo style, and what it's produced is, and I'll have to look at the stats to confirm this, but to my dumb naked eye, more turnovers,

more iso, more hero ball, less opportunities to work guys. Love had three great games immediately after Blatt ball, and less opportunities to work guys. Love had three great games immediately after Blatt fired, and now he's gone. He's off the island. He's off the island and didn't even play in crunch time in the Boston game.

I've noticed that LeBron seems very deliberate. I thought it was interesting. Bogut was on my podcast, and he said how Verjao came to the Warriors and was like, I can't believe how well you guys move the ball around. It's so different than where I just came from podcast and he said how Vergeau came to the Warriors and was like I can't believe how well you guys move the ball around it's so different than where I just came from or whatever he said and I thought that was really telling that I don't know whatever style Cleveland is doing right now is a style from 20 years ago yeah with with more threes but it's basically very deliberate you get the ball everything stops let me decide what to do

and it's kind of what lebron wants to do like he's it's almost the thing i notice here's what's curious about it i think it's the right antidote to the golden state it might if cleveland really thinks that they're going to play in the finals against Golden State this year, they need to repeat the same style of play as last finals, where they controlled pace, they beat the hell out of the dubs on the boards, and they basically whittled the games down to end-of-game possession. I think it's the right move for LeBron. I'm not sure it's the right move for the team. And you know, the interesting thing about Kyrie is you think he's like this,

because he's young and he's athletic, you think he's this up-and-down guy, but he's actually a little more deliberate with how he plays, which is how LeBron plays. The whole mix, I'm just not totally sold on it just seems like lebron is trying to solve every possession it's like here let me let me figure out the absolute perfect chess move for this possession it's like i'm not sure those guys play basketball enough and then you see the last four minutes when they fall behind that's when lebron just puts his head down and gets to the rim it's's almost like he's like, ah, fuck it.

And then he starts going to the rim and he gets fouls and they come back. But if I'm Kyrie, I'm not sure this is the best team for me. I'm not sure I want to play with LeBron James if I'm Kyrie. Like if I really want to become one of the best five players in the league or something, I'm not sure LeBron helps me get there, right? It's a weird thing to say now because they were 30-11 before they fired Blatt. And Kyrie and LeBron together were in the finals last year. Right.

And they looked very well poised to beat the Warriors in the finals last year. Yeah. I mean, the East was such a mess. They never really got tested in the first three rounds. And then in the finals, I gotta say, I think Golden State just got scared those first couple games.

I think they just got super tight. And I think LeBron did the best player on the floor thing, and everyone in Golden State kind of, their sphincters tightened. And it wasn't until game four that they became Golden State kind of, their sphincters tightened. And it wasn't until, like, game four that they became Golden State, and then it was over. Well, the West is going to be really interesting this year.

It's an understatement of, you know, Captain Obvious time. Right. But for me, it's like, I just think with the Cavs, everyone's like, how do they get Kevin Love going? How do they get Kevin Love going? How do they get Kevin Love going? I don't really care. Like, I care. They've got to get Kyrie going as the guy they have to get going because I think ultimately their destiny is LeBron playing the four

with three perimeter guys and Thompson at the five. That's the crunch time lineup that's going to beat teams. You know who else doesn't care about getting Kevin Love going? The Cavs. No, they don't. I really think we're headed to a scenario where he doesn't play in crunch time in big games in the playoffs. I think that's his destiny on this team

because their best chance to win is LeBron at the four. It just is. It's obvious. If you watch him, it's like he should be playing there and they should be playing faster and they should have more shooters. And Thompson is the rebounder, LeBron is the ball handler, and then three guys spotting up. And they're better defensively when Love's not out there.

So when they have Thompson, Love, and LeBron, it's not as effective. I don't know what the per 100 stats are, but I promise you they're not as good as some of the other lineups. So a team like Boston, and I think Cleveland's better. Just to come back to Boston? Well, you know, Boston's a three seed, and Toronto's a two seed. And I think for either of those teams, I don't think they have enough talent to beat Cleveland,

but the way to beat them is to just be relentless and to just keep coming and coming and coming and playing defense and banging bodies and knocking guys down and just being super competitive and hoping that Cleveland caves. That's their only chance. Cleveland, the way Cleveland is going to lose in round two or round three is because Cleveland lost. Because Cleveland lost the series. More than the other team won it. It reminds me of, uh, in 2010 Cleveland was better than Boston. Um, Cleveland just whatever was going on with that team internally,

they just kind of melted down the last three games and Rondo played out of his mind and all of a sudden Boston was in the finals, but Cleveland was better. Yeah. You know? And I think that's the chance this year. I think Toronto has a better chance to pull it off than Boston, obviously. I just think they're, you know, Lowry is somebody that can go toe-to-toe. You know, they have rebounding.

They have some, it's the right kind of team. I'm happy for Toronto and, you know, much respect to the TDOT and we the North, but I have a healthy dose of skepticism after watching the Almost Bullets sweep Toronto out of the playoffs last year. They are much improved, but it's still the same cast of characters. They got their ass handed to them as soon as the bright lights went on. There's one other team that you're going to laugh. Haralabab pointed this out to me.

The Pistons. Oh, I'm not laughing at the Pistons. Okay. No, that's a legit... I like very much the formula that they have and how complementary— you know, it's a formula that fits Van Gundy's eye. It's an SVG team through and through. So the reason you should have laughed is they're the ninth seed right now and not in the playoffs.

I think I have them in. I mean, I understand they're the ninth seed right now and not in the playoffs. But I think I have them in. I mean, I understand they're the eight, but I, I mean the nine, but if they get to the eight seed, like if I'm Cleveland, here's everybody like Charlotte six,

Indiana seven, Chicago's eight, Detroit's nine, Washington's 10. Chicago, Cleveland's going to kill all those teams, except Detroit. Detroit is actually, that's a really interesting series. And I think Van Gundy is a really good coach.

Detroit guys aren't afraid. Drummond's kind of up and down, but in the playoffs, if those games are on TV, I think he'd have a little eye of the tiger. And I don't know, man. That's a dangerous 1-8 matchup for a team that i don't totally trust in cleveland you know yeah yeah 538 not not to pimp a um an espn property but i'm cool with nate sober yeah yeah they they're they're um make the playoff percentage right now is 69% at a 43-39 record, and they're in as a – it looks like a seven seed.

A seven seed wouldn't be as much fun. It would be much more fun if they got the eight seed. I'm counting this right. I'm not sure I'm counting it right. Oh, my God. We're doing this before I hang up with Sal. Before we finish the podcast, we're calling Sal, and we're talking this before I hang up with Sal. Before we finish the podcast, we're calling Sal and we're talking him into this.

Detroit is 100 to one to win the East. I mean, I can't wait to lose $100 on that. They're 100 to one. Is there one out of 100 scenarios where the Pistons go to the finals? We missed out on Holy Cross at 300 to one. I'm not missing out on the Pistons go to the finals? We missed out on Holy Cross at 300-1. I'm not missing out on the Pistons. Tate, are those odds too high?

I'm all in. I'm all in for the Magic to come back, just like the Orlando Magic back in the day. The Magic for SVG. That's a really interesting bet. House, you there? I'm here. That's a really interesting bet. How's he there? I'm here. I already said I'm in.

I thought you passed out. I mean, $100, why not? It's funny that they have... I spent $100 on far worse. It's funny that they have worse odds than the Washington Wizards, who suck. How can they have worse odds than the almost bullets? That doesn't make a lick of sense. The Wizards are 80-1.

Get Sal on the phone right now. Don't wait. We've got to get this in. And the Bulls are 25-1. Does anyone watch the Bulls? Oh, my God. They're not going to make the playoffs. That's my team for who Detroit's going to replace.

I know Butler's back and the Butler-Powell combo are rolling along, but I have the Bulls out. I thought Butler was meeting with Dr. James Andrews. Oh, he played last week. Am I wrong about this? Yeah, but then there was like a, yeah, he's seeking a second opinion on his knee from Dr. James Andrews. You know it's a dangerous word, or dangerous three words?

It's Dr. James Andrews. Who likes that? I want to do a very, yeah. Oh, so he's missing tonight's game. Okay, I get it. So. Swollen left knee. Those are three bad words.

Yeah, and the weird thing about that was they said it was a bruised knee, but he was missing a couple weeks. Who the hell misses three weeks because of a knee bruise? Like, he obviously hurt something, and they just didn't want to say what he hurt. Yeah, something inside of it. Yeah, he obviously tore something or stretched something or did something. And they were like, oh, bruised knee, he'll be back. These teams always lie about injuries.

The Celtics lied about KG in 2009. They were like, oh, he's coming back, he's coming back. Meanwhile, the guy didn't come back for like nine months I know that we just shit on Chicago a little bit I want to do a very quick shout out have you been watching Doug McDermott Dougie Buckets

what's his nickname Dougie McBuckets yeah I've been watching he completely re-engineered his body. Yeah. He's a dunker. He dunked on the almost bullets a couple weeks ago.

I couldn't believe it. I think he dunked on Nene. It was unbelievable. He's going to, he's two years away from being really interesting. Because, you know, he could be, there's going to be a year where he just makes 253s. He acquired in the course of this season a whole bunch of lateral movement that I was very skeptical. And we both talked about this. We talked about him having a big butt.

Yeah. And that it was going to be an NBA issue because of, you know, the lateral movement thing. He solved that. I don't know what combination of diet and whoever he's been training with, but he's in awesome shape. It looks like he's gained four inches on his vertical. All right. Here's what we learned with Joe House today.

Holy Cross needs to put more money into his sports programs because their alumni love when the teams do well. We learned that. We learned that Kevin Durant might go to the Boston Celtics. I don't care what you say. Nope. No, we learned. That's what I learned.

We learned that Detroit is 101 to win the East, and that's not a terrible bet. Get Sal on the phone. We learned that the Cleveland Cavaliers should be more worried about getting Kyrie Irving going than Kevin Love going. And we learned that House actually thinks the Caps might win the Stanley Cup when he should know better. They have the best odds.

I mean, I'm just not going against them. The three goals last night in the third period against the Kings, and the Kings being the dominant, the preeminent puck control hockey team in the NHL. I mean, you know, this Washington team is just legit. The only thing I'm rooting for is health. Can we get to the playoffs healthy? That's the most important thing. We need everybody healthy.

They've got to stop giving up the first period cheapy goals. They've been behind in like, you know, 12 of the last 14 games or something like that. But I, I mean,

I just adore this team. It's great. My wife and my son and my nephew all went last night and my wife had never seen three and three hockey in person

and it was like a life-altering experience. It really is. When it goes to overtime, it's there, the buzz in the building is like before a main event prize fight. It's so cool.

People love three-on-three hockey. It's the best. I don't know how they incorporate more of it, or maybe it's the right amount. I don't know. I think it's the right amount. It was a brilliant innovation. Kudos to the NHL

for a good move with that overtime thing. They still have to figure out the points. It's one point if you make it to the overtime. for, you know, a good move with that overtime thing. They still have to figure out the points. It's one point if you make it to the overtime. It's so fucking confusing. It's still a point if you make it to the shootout. It's weird. I have a master's degree and can't figure out the points. Joe House, always a pleasure.

Go Holy Cross. Talk to you next week. Awesome. Hey, with college basketball in full swing, you might be like Tate the producer. You're figuring out which one of your friends will invite you over to watch games. You're saving up to spend a wad of cash on drinks so you can watch at a sports bar. Worst of all, you're wasting hours looking for a shady live stream like you, Tate, with the Patriot League final. Yeah, very shady.

Yeah. Well, there's a better, cheaper option. Slink TV is the best way to watch games live. For just $20 a month, you get more than 20 live channels, including AMC, ESPN, Adult Swim, and more importantly this month, TNT, TBS, and TruTV. You can watch live basketball. Oh, guess what? Those are the March Madness channels. You could also add on channel packs like the Sports Extra Package for five dollars a month extra no installation no extra gear no annual contracts all you need is an internet

connection start your free seven-day trial at sling.com slash simmons you get the best of live tv on your tablet phone laptop roku fire tv or x, Fire TV, or Xbox. Restrictions apply. Sling.com, Simmons. And since we're here, and this has nothing in common with live TV, but it is nice when you're watching live TV to have a healthy scalp. You know how important a healthy scalp is? You cannot have an unhealthy scalp. So try Head & Shoulders with Old Spice.

Head & Shoulders delivers an amazing daily clean. It's powered by the handsome scent of Old Spice. Head and shoulders delivers an amazing daily clean. It's powered by the handsome scent of Old Spice. When have the words handsome scent not been fantastic? Your hair will look good. Your hair will smell great all day and all night. I once worked with someone who had so much dandruff. His clothes always looked like he

had walked in from a blizzard. And we never said anything to him. Don't be that guy. And don't be the guy who's always scratching his head because he has an itchy scalp and he won't do anything about it. You don't want to be that guy either. Head & Shoulders is 100% guaranteed to keep you flake-free. A good rule in life. You always want to be flake-free, whether it's your scalp, your love life, whatever. There's a good reason Head & Shoulders is the world's number one shampoo.

It gives you great-looking, flake-free hair so you have the confidence to live headfirst every day. Grab a bottle of Head & Shoulders and try it out. Do it right now. You'll be glad you did. All right, we're going to call Greg Cosell. I've always wanted to talk to this guy, so let's do it. And now a guy I've always wanted to have on the pod. I don't know why it hasn't happened before now. He's a senior producer at NFL Films. Great co-sell. How are you? Bill, I'm doing great.

Good to talk to you. Yeah, I always enjoyed you on Coward and a couple other places. And I was always like in the back of my head, I want to have this guy on and talk about NFL. And I just kept forgetting to ask. But now you're here. So this is fantastic. A lot of stuff going on.

What was your favorite move so far? We're taping this on a Thursday morning West Coast time. So something might happen even as we're taping this. But your favorite move right now? Well, I got to tell you, it's going to be a move that a lot of people are going to go, huh? But I think the Eagles signing of safety Rodney McLeod, a very under-the-radar signing, is a great signing. As you may know, I watch all the coaching tape, and Rodney McLeod is one of the best safeties in the NFL, one of the best free safeties in the NFL.

In fact, I was talking to someone at the Combine who said he's really not far from the Earl Thomas level, and the tape kind of shows that to some degree. So there's a classic case of an under-the-radar signing. I think it was a great signing and a great move by the Eagles. All right, what was your second favorite signing? Oh, are we going to do a list here? No, no, this is it. This will be my last one.

You're second. This is your silver medalist. All right, I'll give you another one that's under the radar, okay? Yeah. The Tennessee Titans signing wide receiver Richard Matthews from the Miami Dolphins. Not a big name guy. Yeah. But I watched him. I remember watching him when he came out of Nevada.

I thought he'd be one of those receivers that would find a place in the NFL with the potential to be a nice complimentary receiver if you have a nice number one. And I think for a team that needed wideouts, I think that was a real good signing. So isn't it interesting that the team that has had the most success for the last 15 years, hands down, has been the New England Patriots. And every year on day one and day two of this stuff, they sit out and they just let everyone else spend all their money. Why don't more teams replicate what the Patriots do, since the Patriots always go 12-4, 13-3? Well, you probably know the answer to that. I know you're a New England guy. I assume you're probably a Patriots fan.

Yes. Yeah, that's a safe assumption. Well, good. I know you're a Red Sox fan. That's been made very clear. I would imagine that has something to do with the fact that there's not a lot of Tom Brady's playing quarterback in the NFL. And when you have a quarterback like that, then your margin for error throughout the rest of your roster is much, much greater. And not that they don't want good players, but as you know, in the free agent business, it becomes risk versus reward. You have to spend a lot of money. You know, everybody says, why do we pay, when they're talking about their team, why are we paying this guy so much? That's just what the market bears.

So you end up paying a lot of money for players who may be great players, may not be great players. And I don't really think that's the Bill Belichick approach. I think it's the right approach, but it's also very frustrating because as a free agency in the draft, and you know it's the right move, and especially I think all the Patriot fans after all these years like in Belichick we trust. But at the same time, it's fun when your team goes out and gets somebody.

You know, like the Giants yesterday, I think they think they spent like 105 million guaranteed on three defensive guys um all really good guys and uh and the Giants fans are walking around they're all excited today now it might not have been the right move and it might have killed their salary cap but for that 24 hours you know it's almost like buying a new car you get that that new car smell in your head and, you know, you're walking around. It feels great. And what did you think of, like, what the Giants did? Well, again, Olivier Vernon is a player I really like. And to be honest with you, Bill, I was kind of surprised what Miami did,

that they paid a lot of money for, what, a 31-, 32-year-old defensive end in Mario Williams, who's been a very up-and-down player, and they let a much younger player go, who I personally think is a better player at this point than Mario Williams. So that I didn't understand. So I think the Giants got the benefit of that with Olivier Vernon. And then Damon Harrison is, to me, a very, very good interior defensive lineman. He can play in multiple schemes.

He's not just one of those big fat guys who you line up over the center to hold space. He's actually a pretty good mover. So, you know, I think those two moves right there from a defensive line standpoint really, really helped him. Was there a team that made you wince these last two days? I mean, you go, oh, God, oh, no. You know, I got to tell you, I was surprised that the Denver Broncos let Brock Osweiler out the door. Me too.

Yeah, that surprised me. Because right now they're a team without a quarterback, and I know there's a lot of rumors, but the reality is they had Brock Osweiler in a system in which he started seven games and performed well. And you have to assume that the ceiling is still higher than that based on the fact that he'll have comfort with the system. And now they're starting over at the most important position on the field. So I look at that one in two ways, right? And I think it's one of these two and maybe it's both either a they didn't think he was that good because if you if you have a guy around your team every single day and he's practicing with you and he started seven games maybe there was something about him that they didn't like or maybe he was

really his feelings were really hurt when they went back to Manning because the way they handled that and the way they threw Osweiler under the bus in that game when he had like the four or five turnovers in the first half, but only one of them was his fault. Then Manning comes in. What game? I forget who they're – Tate, who were they playing in that game?

The Broncos when Manning came in in the second half? It was the last game of the season. I think it was San Diego. Yeah, San Diego. Yeah, It was the last game of the season. It was the last game of the season. Yeah, San Diego. Yeah, it was the last game of the season. And Manning came in and didn't really do anything. Made some good audibles at the line and maybe completed one or two passes. But I don't know.

The way they handled that, I remember watching that live and going, wow, they are really going all in on Manning. Because if I'm Osweiler, I don't like that. Yeah, and it's interesting. You make an interesting point, and the other point to that is they essentially won the Super Bowl and had a great Super Bowl run, and we all love Peyton Manning, and it's no knock on Peyton Manning. It's just the realistic interpretation of the film and the facts. They had a Super Bowl run, Bill, where the quarterback was really not that central a

figure to winning the Super Bowl. Now, look, John Elway's smart enough to know that you need a quarterback to win in this league, but again, now it comes down to risk-reward. Maybe he just felt that that number, and this plays off what you said, they're with him every day, that that number was just too high for Brock Osweiler, and they weren't going to do it, and they still feel they can compete because they essentially just want a Super Bowl that way. I judge all non-Patriot quarterbacks by do they scare me when I've gambled

against them or when they're playing the Patriots. And I thought Osweiler was pretty good. I've got to say, in that Sunday night game when he rallied back the game that Gronkowski got hurt and sucked the life out of the Pats. Yeah, he made, well, you probably remember that game really well. I'm sure you do. He made a big-time throw to Emmanuel Sanders down the left sideline, a really big-time throw.

And I just thought, you know, it's one game, but it's Sunday night. It's NBC. It's the Patriots. They were behind. I liked how he carried himself. And I do think that's part of being a quarterback is, you know, it's one of the reasons I'm not a Tannehill guy. I just don't think like when the chips are down and you got 10 other guys in the huddle and Ryan Tannehill standing there, are the other guys going to like believe in Ryan Tannehill? Probably not. Like Osweiler, you could tell the Broncos actually believed in him

and they thought he was going to lead them. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because at the end of the day, I've always believed that everything eventually gets manifested on the field. Now, I'm not saying that attitude and all those things are meaningless, but I think if you're making the throws and there's tangible traits and attributes that lead to making throws, I think that the other thing becomes secondary. Now, Tannehill's obviously had some success in this league, not enough success, and he's the kind of guy that has had some concerns from a traits and attributes standpoint.

He hasn't reached that level. But I think if you make the throws, I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think you become a great quarterback in this league because you take your offensive line out to dinner on Thursday night. Good point. I think ultimately it all gets manifested one way or another on the field. But some of that is a little bit of courage, a little bit of charisma, a little bit of, I just made an awesome throw on third and 13 when I had a guy about to pound me

and I found Sanders or whatever. Right. But that's a tangible to me. That's a tangible, even work ethic to me is a tangible, you know, people say, Oh, well you can't measure, you know, his work. Well, yeah, you can. Totally. That's a tangible. Yeah. I like Osweiler. I thought what Houston did, and Lamar Miller is another guy that watched Miami the last two years. It never made sense why they didn't kind of go all in on him. I always thought he was dangerous. I was afraid of him when he played the Pats.

But you could almost make your same point. Coaches, look, coaches don't want to get fired, correct? I mean, I think that's a fair assumption. Yes. So if the Miami coaching staff, and they went through a number of different coaches, so it was not just one coach, and they could be wrong. Many people could be wrong. That's happened. But if they clearly felt that Miller was the kind of guy to go all in on as a feature back or foundation back, and that it would help them win. Don't you think they would have done that? What do you think of him?

I'm not sure he's a foundation back. I think he's a downhill explosive runner. I don't know if he has the ultimate skill set overall to be the kind of guy every week you pencil in for 20 carries and say our offense starts with him now i'm sure in houston uh look they needed a back uh again now it's the it's the the free market they needed a back they they paid for him um we'll see how bill o'brien uses him he's obviously a weapon uh again we'll find out if he can carry 20 times a week. The one thing I've always agreed with Belichick on is to not overpay for running backs. And you saw some guys like Forte went for a pretty big price, right? DeMarco Murray got traded to Tennessee.

He's expensive. And the Pats and a couple other teams have always been like, no, no, we're not paying for that position. Doug Martin was another one that got paid. Where do you stand on that? You know, I've struggled with that over the years. I think that the running game is really important in the NFL. Look, everybody says, just as gospel, that, oh, it's a passing league.

And it is. We know that. But I still think you have to run the ball. And, you know, can you run the ball with backs that are not great backs? Probably. If you're committed to the run game, I think you can. So I understand the philosophy. It'll be interesting in this draft where certain guys go. You know, Ezekiel Elliott is a name you hear a lot about. I haven't had a chance to study him hard yet, so I can't speak to his skill set other than seeing a few games here and there on TV. Is he going to go in the top 10 or top 15? I would doubt it, but again, every draft is its own entity.

Were you surprised that Denver won the Super Bowl? Yeah, I was. I thought that, once for this, I was very, very surprised that they totally shut down Carolina's offense, particularly their run game. Now, in watching the tape, Bill, I thought that Jonathan Stewart did not have a good game, and I thought it showed up right away. I thought, you know, we always talk about quarterbacks sometimes playing a little faster, hurrying themselves. I thought Jonathan Stewart hurried himself. I thought, I think it might have been his first carry. He missed a hole, would have gained 15 yards right on his first carry of the game. I thought he played fast.

But I was overall surprised that Denver was able to totally shut down that run game. And to be honest with you, after watching the tape, I thought the best Denver defensive player on the field was Malik Jackson. Wow. And he just left. And he just left. And now he's signed. You know, it's funny because he was a fourth or fifth round pick. He was the kind of player when he came out of Tennessee, he was viewed as not quite quick enough to play defensive end, not quite big enough to play defensive tackle. So therefore, he was a fourth or fifth round pick. Now, that kind of player, the value of that player has really increased

because he's that kind of player. Michael Bennett's that kind of player. That sort of hybrid D&D tackle has tremendous value now in the NFL. He got $42 million guaranteed. They also signed Chris Ivory and Tayshaun Gibson. And then Oakland, the other perennially lasting team, they got Sean Smith, Bruce Irvin, and Azamali. Yeah, well, it's funny.

That would be Osemaly, by the way. Osemaly. There you go. I knew I was going to get in trouble with that one. And by the way, you mentioned a player who's another signing I really, really liked, the Jacksonville signing of Gibson, the safety who came from Cleveland. Another really good player, an under-the-radar player,

but a very good free safety type. I think that really helped their defense. And Cleveland lost Travis Benjamin, too, who I always thought, if I was a GM, and you mentioned the guy in Miami before, I'd try to look at wide receivers who just never found the right QB. It would seem like that would be like the underappreciated resource. Travis Benjamin might just be really good and we've never seen him with a QB, right? Yeah. I mean, he's a certain kind of player. Obviously,

when you're that size, there's certain things you can't do. But, you know, it's funny. Receivers, and think about this every year with the draft, there's probably average, about 30 receivers drafted every year, give or take. And, you know, every year there's maybe one or two that everybody says they're the top guys, and we all know they get taken high. But after that, when you talk about receivers, you could look at the draft from pick 40 to pick 150, and there'll be a ton of receivers taken, and it becomes a function of team and scheme. You know, one team might have a guy ranked as the 45th best receiver. Another team might have the same guy as the 95th best receiver just because

of the approach and how they see him utilized within their scheme. In the NFL, it comes down very often to scheme adaptability because there's very few players that come out that can transcend scheme. Is there a team just in the last two days that became a Super Bowl contender for you? Oh, you know, it's funny. I haven't thought of it in those terms because I tend, amazingly enough, because I've been doing this for so long, not to think about Super Bowl contenders in March. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm still getting my head around the fact that it's 80 degrees here on the East Coast,

and pitchers and catchers reported three weeks ago, so I'm still struggling with that. Right. But at the same time, Houston was a playoff team last year. Yep. And if Osweiler's good, that's a possible Super Bowl contender now. Well, they're a more complete team is basically what you're saying, yes. Because you have to assume now, number one, you'll assume their run game's going to be better. Okay? With Lamar Miller and they still have Alfred Blue, they'll have more elements, more dimensions to their run game.

You have to assume their pass game will be better. Essentially, at this point, you're looking at Osweiler, because he's only had seven NFL starts, as being a higher level Brian Hoyer at this point. Now, his ceiling is obviously much higher than that, theoretically, but that's what he'll be for this year, and that's what you're looking for. And their defense got better and better. They still have some holes on defense, but clearly their defense is good enough to keep them in just about every game. I'm like you.

I don't even like thinking about it until August. But the one team I was hoping wouldn't get a quarterback was Houston. Because the other part with that is they have Hopkins, who might be the best receiver in the league, and now he has somebody who can actually throw 40-yard passes to him, and that makes me nervous too. Yeah, and again, I know what you're saying, but I think you also have to be a little careful with a guy that started seven games.

It's easy to say, and obviously for the most part he played pretty well. He was obviously on a pretty darn good team, but I think you have to be careful about automatically saying that Osweiler is the answer. I mean, I think he's a good player. I liked what I saw. But it's real hard for me to say after seven NFL starts that you can just sort of put him down in ink and he's the guy and let's go rock and roll. It shows how just desperate teams are for quarterbacks, right? Like Osweiler literally played seven games and I think he threw for

300 yards in one of them and just got $72 million. Right. He's a quarterback. You know what? The other thing that helped him was it's been so long now since the Scott Mitchell signing that I think teams have forgotten. On the flip side, Bill, you have Ryan Fitzpatrick is still out there. Now, I think a careful study of the tape shows that despite the numbers that Fitzpatrick was not a great player by any means. And I think people know that. And that's why there has not been great, great demand. And maybe it's why the Jets are not willing to throw a ton of money at him, even though he, as I said, put up good numbers for them because he's got some significant flaws and weaknesses. And, you know, they got through a season without those

becoming a major issue, but they know what he is. You know, then you have RG3 and Colin Kaepernick, you know, it's, so there's other quarterbacks out there that teams are not so willing to sign so fast. Would you roll the dice with Kaepernick? You know, and again, this is purely a film study statement, Bill, because that's what I do. The last time he really played significantly, they tried to simplify that offense so significantly by NFL standards, and he still couldn't execute it. And what people have to understand, that running fast in a straight line

and throwing the ball really hard, those are not quarterback attributes at the NFL level. And he hasn't shown a whole lot more than that in his most recent play. So when teams look at the tape and see what is there, it's not my interpretation, it's fact, then they struggle with that. And at the same time, he had first and goal from the five to win a Super Bowl. Correct. That's amazing, right?

So what happens if they score on that drive and they win the Super Bowl? Well, that would have been interesting to see if his career path would have followed the same course. That's impossible to know. All we know is what the tape shows now. And he hasn't put a lot of good play on tape in his last, whatever it was, 10, 12, whatever the number starts. And in fact, it was bad tape.

And that's what teams are looking at. That's why, I mean, I guess I read before we started talking that three teams are interested in trading for him. I don't think they'll have to give up very much to get him. I thought he was so bad last year. I actually would probably stay away.

His confidence was shot. How about RG3? What's your feeling about that? I don't think physically he can hold up. It's a little bit different, but same thing, like from a confidence standpoint, I just don't think it's there. But I was hoping the Rams would sign him just because I like the poetic

whatever of him, them trading, getting all those picks for him, and then somehow him ending up on the Rams. And I also think they're going to try to have some sort of star at that position. Not that he's a star, but some sort of name just because it's L.A. first year and you've got to think that way, I think. Yeah, he's in a similar situation as Kaepernick. You put the tape on from the last time he played, and again you saw an offense that was really simplified,

and he couldn't execute it efficiently. So, you know, now ultimately that's what the NFL is. Coaches work 20 hours a day they work their tails off and what they really like to have happen is they'd like to have the game plans and the schemes executed as practiced and when when quarterbacks in particular don't do that it short circuits offenses I was shocked that the Rams just didn't overpay Manning for one year I'm not convinced that Manning wanted to retire. I just think these guys never want to retire until nobody wants them as their starting quarterback.

And I think if the Rams had floated $13 million for him for one year, I think he's on the Rams. What do you think? Boy, that's hard to say. I mean, we kept reading that Peyton wanted to play, and we know how much he loves it. You know, we also know he's a pretty smart guy. I think he had to know somewhere in the deep recesses of his brain, Bill, that he really wasn't playing at a level that he wants to play at and that he's built a whole career on.

I mean, I'm really glad he retired. I don't know how you feel. I'm really glad he retired. I thought he was barely hanging on last year, and I thought they especially won that last game despite him. Their defense won that game. I think him and Brady are wired in a way that both of them are just going to keep playing until nobody wants them as a starter.

Now, you're a Patriots fan, obviously. Do you expect Brady to keep playing at the same level for a while longer longer or do you think all of a sudden it's just not going to be the same I mean doesn't the history of the quarterback position say right around now is when you start to lose it if anyone can defy it it's him like his numbers have been the same pretty much for the last eight years and it's nothing to do with I don't think it has much to do with his talent as much as just the way the rules have changed and the advantages that quarterbacks have

as now guys can't dive at their knees and you can't really hit receivers over the middle at all anymore. I just think it's easier to play quarterback, but then you watch him in that Denver game, he got hit 23 times. And that was not a good game for him. And I'm not talking about just the numbers and the result.

I'm talking about the fact that Denver did some things defensively. He was unsure at times of what he was seeing, and you rarely say that about Tom Brady. Yeah, I mean, I've probably watched almost all of the games he's played, and there's a couple different versions of Brady, and you kind of know in the first, second quarter who you're getting. almost all of the games he's played. And there's a couple different versions of Brady. And you kind of know in the first, second quarter who you're getting. And that Brady was kind of slightly confused, not 100% confident.

I don't feel great. I think I'm going to be hit this whole game, Brady. You know, you could see it early. It was like, oh, wow. Because there's other games where he comes out and you're like, oh, he's got it tonight. This is,, oh, no. You're right. Because there's other games where he comes out and you're like, oh, he's got it tonight. This is, you know, usually a night game. And you can tell in the first quarter he's fired up.

He's headbutting people. That was not the Brady in that Denver game. And with that said, he threw the best pass I've ever seen him ever throw to Gronk on that fourth and ten to save the season. It was the greatest pass of his career. But you know what? On the two-point conversion, he missed Gronk wide open, and that was the design of the play. And to this day, I don't know why he didn't throw that ball.

Only he can tell you that. We can't. But they had Gronk one-on-one, and he was wide open on a little out route, and I don't know why he didn't throw it. Well, Greg, you're talking to a guy who may or may not have watched that play over 250 times on the internet. And I actually have the answer. You do? Yeah, I have the answer.

And after we hang up, you can go watch and you'll see what I mean. So right as Gronk is crossing, there's a big guy right in the middle between him and Brady. It's a linebacker or defensive end or somebody. And I think Brady was blocked on Gronk. I don't think he could see him. So he kind of started to audible and do something different. And that's when Gronk broke open. And that's when he was already kind of had decided to throw in a double coverage.

I just think he missed him because he was already kind of had decided to throw in a double coverage i just think he missed him because he was blocked uh i don't know that sounds like a patriots fan trying to justify you know that reminds me it doesn't sound like it it's a 100 reminds me of the old line by jeff goldblum in the big chill where you know you have to come up with at least one juicy rationalization every day that's mine it's 100% a rationalization because I watched it 250 times and I'm like, how did he miss him? Oh,

he must have been blocked. But it is crazy because that was the play. They ran a play to... That was the design of the play. Yeah,

they ran... That was the play call. The two receivers kind of jutted out toward the front pylon. They left the whole right side of the end zone open for Gronk. And

what was crazy is Denver, for some reason, wasn't double teaming Gronk on that play. No, they were not. And if I'm not mistaken, of course, you may know this because you've seen it 250 times. I only probably watched it 10 or 11 times. I think it was Shiloh Keo who was covering him on that play. So they had the matchup that they clearly wanted. It was kind of a routine play. So that's why only Tom could tell you why he didn't throw and he's not going to tell us. Right.

I mean, in his defense, if he didn't get blocked, he did get thrown into the turf 23 times in that game. And I'm sure... Another juicy rationalization. Yeah. That's almost as good

as the first one that came up. There you go. I think the thing, though, that's football, though football though right you physically beat the hell out of somebody for four quarters and then they start missing stuff like rob garkowski wide open running toward the right side of the end zone well you know it's funny you say that because when i started working with ron jaworski and this goes back to 1990 so he's i've now known him for 26 years and we spend a ton of time together one of the first things he told me when we started watching film together back in those days was, he said, you know, no quarterback likes to get hit.

And I think if you start getting hit a lot, I think it has an impact. Especially when you're 38 years old. I wish I was 38 years old. Greg Cosell, it was a true pleasure. I'd love to talk to you again in the offseason. Thanks for doing this. Bill, I really appreciate it 38 years old. Greg Cosell, it was a true pleasure. I'd love to talk to you again in the offseason. Thanks for doing this. Bill, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

All right, take care. All right, that was fun. I'm going to probably go watch that Brady play again now. I might watch it five more times. Thanks to Sling TV. It's the best way to watch games live. For just $20 a month, you get more than 20 live channels, including TNT, TBS, and TruTV, the March Madness channels.

No installation, no extra gear, no annual contracts. You only need an internet connection. Start your seven-day free trial at sling.com slash Simmons for just $20 a month. Restrictions apply. Thanks to HBO Now. Get your free trial month right now. Just download the HBO app.

You get all the series, all the movies. You get everything. Game of Thrones is coming up, FYI. Thanks to The Ringer. Go to theringer.com to sign up for our new newsletter that launches on Monday. I might even be writing something for it. And follow us on Twitter at at ringer. Thanks again for listening. If you have an extra minute, please go to bspnssurvey.com to take a short anonymous survey about today's episode. It's a big help to the show.

Again, that's BSPNsurvey.com. Come on, the podcast is free. You could at least do that for me. See you tomorrow on BS Podcast. We about this bitch. Anytime y'all want to see again Rewind this track right here Close your eyes And picture me rollin'