The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 81: David Duchovny

Episode Date: March 25, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons pays tribute to the life of Garry Shandling. Then, David Duchovny joins to discuss NY vs. Boston, Curry's relatable game (18:00), Starks's dunk near Jordan (23:30), 'White Men Can’t Jump' auditions (26:00), 'The Larry Sanders Show' (33:00), Shandling's "nonchalant talent" (40:00), 'The X-Files' (48:00), the Knicks' future (1:02:00), and Dustin Hoffman's JumboTron behavior (1:10:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Protect your house. Protect your apartment. Protect your condo. Studies show that security systems deter burglars at a rate of 90%. For home security, you can trust go to simplysavebill.com and save 10%. And today's episode of the BS podcast is brought to you by The Ringer, my new website slash digital venture that launches this summer. You can subscribe to our new newsletter at theringer.com. The early responses have been really good. All right, before we get to the David Duchovny podcast, we actually taped

that last Friday. And we taped it because we were trying out some stuff for the HBO show I'm working on. And one of the things we wanted to try was just a really loose podcast, but actually then used the podcast for the BS podcast. So we taped it, uh, on Friday. And then, uh, six days later, Gary Shanley dies and you're going to listen to the podcast. And we actually talk about him and we talk about Larry Sanders, the show. Um, we talk about how to come. The ended up on that show, and it's just bizarre that this happened and really sad. He was one of the comedy icons for me. And just a quick story just about how influential that show was. HBO, I think for the first, I don't know, I think I got HBO like 1979 or 1980.

At the time, you just got this little box on the top of your TV. I was living with my dad in Brookline. They put the box on top of the TV and you could turned it on or off. And then HBO would just take over your TV basically. And we got it for the boxing and we got it cause they had movies. And then eventually cable starts in 1982. So HBO has been in my life really since I was 10 and they always were good at movies and they were always good at boxing and they were always really good at comedy specials. The whole scripted thing, it took them a while to get. And if you look at the 1980s, you know, first and 10, The Hitchhiker, which was great for nudity. That's about it. Although I did like the theme song.

Dream On started in 1990. Like they never really figured out the scripted thing. Larry Sanders started in 1992. Shanling was somebody that, you know, people always thought was going to have a late-night show. He was somebody that subbed for Carson a lot. He would always kill when he was on talk shows. He had a really good show called It's Gary Shandling Show. I think that's what the title was.

That was on Showtime, and it kind of broke the third wall and did all kinds of stuff. But it was raw. It wasn't the great show he was going to make. And at some point, I think people thought he was going to host a late-night show. And instead what he did was created his own TV show, which was about somebody who hosted a late night show. And if you watch it, it's really hard to find.

They have all the DVDs now, but I think there's been some legal issues. Like it's not on HBO Now. It's one of the only iconic HBO shows that you can't get on HBO Now. I'm not sure it's on any streaming service, but if you watch the first couple seasons, the pieces hadn't fallen into place yet with the show totally, but the characters were great.

The premise was great. It's really good. I mean, it was by far the best show HBO had had just for scripted. But as it went on, it really turned into something special. And Judd Apatow is behind the scenes. And I think Hank Kingsley, which was played by Jeffrey Tambor, has had a lot of success since the show. Rip Torn, who peaked on that show and was phenomenal.

Ginny Garofalo was on there. Wallace Langham, a whole bunch of great people. But the last couple seasons of that show, in my opinion, were the first really event-scripted programming HBO ever had, especially the last couple years, and we talk about this on The New Company Bot, so I'm going to go over this again, but, you know, we get together to watch these shows.

You get together with your friends. It was by far the most clever and sophisticated and smart show that was on TV. It was just the best. It wasn't even close. I guess maybe you compare it to, I've just, I don't think you compare it to anything now, actually. It just was clearly the best. It was competing against mostly network shows and the NBC lineup and friends. And Seinfeld was great, but Seinfeld was starting to peter out around 90, 96, 97. Sanders could

take more chances. Sanders could really push the envelope. It turned the tables on celebrities that have celebrities coming out and playing themselves, and sometimes making fun of themselves. There was a famous scene when Norm MacDonald gets in with Henry Winkler on the couch. It just had so many great moments. And for somebody like me living in Boston,

living in Charlestown, who always had been fascinated by L.A. and all these people, I just loved it. I couldn't wait for it to come on. I was living with my roommate at the time and all the people I was working with at this bar restaurant we had.

We would get together on Sunday nights and watch the show. I remember there was one season finale. We must have had 25 people. Somebody was talking. There was almost a fight. I mean, it was crazy. And people didn't get together like that for HBO shows.

This was the first one. And then you had Oz. Then you had Sex and the City. And then finally The Sopranos. And that's really when HBO became the Harvard of television, basically. But I just thought it's one of the great shows ever. It's certainly one of the most influential shows for me just as a creative person. I've watched them so many different times.

And I actually got to meet Shanley and spend some time with him at this boxing. I forget what card it was, but Pete Berg invited me, and he was there, and got to spend six, seven hours with him, and I just couldn't stop talking to him about the show, and he loved it and just loved talking about it and loved hearing my thoughts and arguing about characters and things they should have done, and he just couldn't get enough of it. And I think after he had that show,

I don't think he ever really recovered from having it. Even when you see the DVD where he went and he interviewed all these different celebrities that had been on the show, and that was this bonus footage that he had in the DVD. He just loved talking about the show. And, you know, it's weird. I always think when people die, especially when, you know, they haven't been,

maybe they don't feel like they're appreciated or whatever. And actually when you die, especially somebody like him or Robin Williams, you see it time and time again, David Bowie, and it becomes this three-day just love fest and people talking about how greatie, and it becomes this three-day just love fest and people talking about how great they were and everybody writing these awesome pieces. And it always seems unfair that the person that died didn't get to read those pieces.

I don't know if he's number one, but I think Shanling would have enjoyed the three-day tributes and the essays and just everything. I think he would have enjoyed that the most of anybody so we we talk about him on this podcast and we decided to leave it in just because

A it's interesting and B it just kind of shows you kind of how short life is because six days ago we were talking about the guy you know like he's here and there you go. So anyway, here, RIP Gary Shandling, a true great. Actually, I'm not about to cry.

I actually need water. Tate, I don't mean to make you embarrassed. Actually, my voice is scratchy. But I am really going to miss this guy. And I was really hoping that he had one more great creative thing lurking somewhere, but we'll never know. Anyway, RIP Gary Shandling. And here's the Ducubny podcast, as promised. Yeah.

Clear enough for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did they ever play Tupac in the X-Files in the 90s or no? Did they play Tupac? No, I played Tupac in my car. You did in your trailer? In my car.

But not, no. California, that song. No Side of Party, that one. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That was big for me. David Duchovny. Yeah. of Party, that one. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That was big for me. David Duchovny.

Yeah. TV star, movie star, author. Author. Bucky fucking Dent. Yeah, we can say it. Yeah, we can swear on the podcast. It's not ESPN anymore. It's a new home for me.

It was a big deal with, you know, the title of the book is on the book. So we couldn't put fucking, we had to put an asterisk. And it was a big, big controversy about whether we should use the ampersand or the and. Oh, there was an asterisk controversy? Yeah, there was an asterisk controversy. Yeah, but it is buggy fucking dead. Well, I remember at some point when I was at my former employer, we talked about a possible movie. It was back in the days when ESPN was still making movies and stuff.

Yeah, you were very helpful about that. You were trying. I tried. You did, and I appreciate that. Well, because I hated Bucky Dent, so I really wanted a movie that was called Bucky fucking Dent. It really excited me. I wanted the poster in my house, the whole thing.

It came to me because I'm from New York, unlike you, and I just know him as Bucky. I know you're from New York. I was trying not to bring that up. And I just know Bucky Dent. Yeah. And Taya has a family house in Massachusetts, and it says this in the book in the acknowledgments,

but that one day I was just hanging out outside the house and there were two guys working on the roof, and I just heard one say what sounded like Bucky fucking Dent. And I was just like, well, what? Just years and years later? Yeah, I was like, what the hell is that? And i asked about it and it's like you can't he is not known as bucky dent new england he's only known as bucky fucking dent and bill fucking buckner yeah what's weird is 2004 i think softened a lot of that but i still you know i mean the 78 playoff

game made me cry i was nine years old i literally cried tears came out of my eyes i had to be consoled it was terrible who consoled you my dad what did he say we're gonna win one in 30 years is that what he said no it was more not knowing what to say i don't think you ever know what to say when your kids are crying other than you just kind of rub their back and you hope they stop because they're half you and it feels like you're having this out-of-body experience. Your kid's in pain. You can't stop them. Well, you don't have the answer.

I mean, the answer is you lose sometimes. Well, the 78 playoff game, we blew like a 14-game lead over the course of seven, eight weeks. It's all in there. You'll read all about it. Then we rallied back. Nobody remembers the rally back. When I was researching the book i was surprised that i think they won their last six games we had we had so and everything led to the monday playoff game

and what happened was everyone stayed home from school that's right yeah which you know was almost like uh like a holiday or like a like an assassination or like there's very few events that would just everybody would agree yeah we're not going to school today right and we all stayed home and the game was at i think like four o'clock or three it ended at 5 22 yeah so it was early afternoon yeah and the shadow started coming late but yeah everybody was home yeah and uh and then yaz came up and i wrote about this in my red Sox book. Like, Yaz was the window to the tortured soul of Red Sox fans. He's like this chain-smoking Polish guy who just was on all these teams and just came very close but not quite and just was wearing the 86.

And he'd already hit a home run that day, hadn't he? Who did? Yaz hit a home run early. Earlier. Yeah. So then he comes up, the shadows, guy on third base two outs gossage he's throwing 130 miles an hour yeah and uh and he just kind of check swings but it was so unsatisfying i just would have rather he struck out did he foul out to nettles yeah yeah there's nothing worse than a

game ending on a foul pop i'd rather have like the batter get hit in the head and die and then just then four from the fourth game then over a foul pop. Yeah. I think it was one of those guys that does a lot of memorabilia stuff for the Yankees.

Johnstone or Johnstone? Jay Johnstone? Is it Jay Johnstone? The former clown prince of baseball? Yes. You know how that happens when somebody's like

a tiny bit funny but they become a clown prince? Well, it happened to Ron Jeremy in porn, didn't it yeah same kind of thing yeah he was funny for different same kind of designation yeah so uh i was i saw jay johnson at something somewhere and he told me about that pitch and he said that nettles was at third pounding his glove and saying pop him up goose Goose, pop him up, pop him up. Right. And the ball goes up, and it's coming towards Nettles, and Nettles goes, not to me.

Well, he probably knew the lefty batter, the check, it's going. If he's late. It's going that way. He'd pop him up. It really hurt. It hurt my feelings. And then 86 hurt my feelings.

Then 2003, the Boone Homer, which kind of has been lost in history because the Red Sox won a year later but that was really the darkest moment just thinking it was never going to happen and I was just going to live my whole life and then I was going to die and now you got too many of them

now I can't even keep track don't you miss feeling no it's my theory that Sox fans actually miss their status as perennial whatever it was. I don't know if it's a missing, but it definitely doesn't feel like life or death anymore. See, it took something away from you winning. There's a lesson there for your kids.

I would compare it to if you were a virgin unintentionally through your 40s and 50s. Right. And then it happened and it was like even better than you thought it was. Right. But you don't remember like the fourth time you lost your virginity. Well, it's not a possibility, is it? Right. I mean.

But like nobody remembers the fourth time I had sex. I remember the fourth time you had sex. I remember the first time you had sex. I remember. Thank you. But yeah. So I think it doesn't, the stakes aren't the same, but I also, I would, I don't regret a thing. It's so much better to have the peace.

The worst thing about being a Red Sox fan during that whole time was them torturing us with the footage. Yeah. So like things would be going well, and then they'd come out of commercial, and Joe Buck would be like, hey, in case you forgot, the Red Sox fans have been fucked for the last 80 years,

and here's a montage. Here's Bill Buckner, the ball going through his leg, and he knew it was coming. It's always Fisk. It was the same beats and the same networks playing it the same way over and over and over again. It was like, enough already. Can we just win?

I want this to end. Now the Yankee fans are in that situation because in the 21st century, they've only won one title, which was totally tainted by A-Rod. It's not tainted. All of his cheating. I feel like it's tainted. Don't make me go to the Sox roster that won in 2004. Don't make me. Never broke a law.

Never suspended. Nobody's suspended on the Red Sox. Ortiz looks strange make me. Never broke a law. Never suspended. Nobody suspended on the Red Sox. Ortiz looks strange to me. He's looked the same for 20 years. He looks like Florida from good times with muscle. He got a lot better quickly at some point in his career. He got a lot better when he came to the Red Sox. Oh, that's what it was?

Yeah. Oh, I see. I see. He needed some East Coast love. He finally felt home. And who was on the Red Sox at Oh, that's what it was? Yeah. Oh, I see. He needed some East Coast love. He finally felt home. And who was on the Red Sox at that time? A lot of suspects. My thing is, I think everyone was cheating.

Prove to me you're not cheating from 1998 to 2005. I think they should drop it. They should just drop the whole thing. Did you ever do PDs or anything for a movie? No. Did you ever have to jack up? No, but I think people that work drunk, should they give,

because alcohol calms your nerves and acting is often about controlling your nerves. That's a PED. Right, so should all those actors give their awards back for being drunk while they were working? That's a lot of actors. That's right.

That's a lot of actors. I just say, to me the question, the serious question is with kids like kids should not be doing these drugs before their bodies are are formed right that's really the question yeah we unanimously agree on that right i think in america it's one of the things we agree giving giving not totally grown yet kids drugs we're all we're on a laminate even trump agrees even trump so so to me it's it's like if you decide to be a professional athlete then you can decide to manipulate manipulate your body the way you want to you're an adult painkillers well you know all these guys on on they're on great training

regimens they're on great vitamin regimens who knows whether it's good for you or not personally i would either go allow everything or make everything illegal because the other part of me watches these athletes get bigger and stronger yeah and more superhuman every year and i have trouble honestly relating to what they're doing on the field now it used to be and i'm delusional now. It used to be, and I'm delusional, yes, but it used to be, I used to sit there and go, maybe I could get out there and pinch hit. No, I wouldn't. Maybe I could throw up a three.

I don't feel that way anymore. And I think a lot of it has to do with training and with drugs and stuff that they're doing. So I'm all for bringing sports down to the human scale. I don't, and I'll probably, you might disagree, and I think a lot of people would, but I'd rather watch a game in which I felt like it was relatable physically than watching like an Avenger movie or something don't you feel like that's why people have enjoyed no i don't think it's weird at all i think that's why people have

enjoyed steph curry so much oh probably because he's the most relatable star that we've had really since bird bird was the last guy i was like yeah that's a tall goofy white guy doesn't run that fast i i kind of feel like he's the best possible version of people I've played with. Right. And Curry is doing these things when he's six foot three. Well, you don't have to be tainted with racism for liking Curry either, which is good. Curry transcends all races. Yeah, he does.

He's the first perfect human being. And he's a perfect color. He brings all countries together. Yeah. Yeah, he's great. Yeah. In central casting, you could have created him. You love Steph, huh?

I do. You know what i really like i never totally talked myself into lebron or kobe eras jordan was the last guy for me we argued about lebron you and i at one point what side did i take you were anti lebron well but i i worked for espn which meant i was allowed to change my opinion one way or the other depending on how it suited me right i was i was i was anti-lebron at first too but now i'm i'm i think he's an amazing not only is it amazing that's where i am right now but i think he's got the secret to to quote your was that what you regenerate his hair no no not that secret that's lost charles barkley said he was talking about uh lebron they had a picture of he He said, God gave everything to that man except her. And he's the only one who could say that.

Yeah, I think LeBron and Kobe, like just going to see them in person versus when you go see Curry in person now or when you saw Jordan in person 20 years ago, it's just slightly different. Like the way people react when he walks out. Like that could be me. People with the cameras taking pictures of him.

Everybody's just watching him the whole time. Andbron and kobe were a lot like that but there's an excitement like what what what curry robinson well he was just more specific yeah he walked in like jesus that guy is that a human being right am i a member of that species uh but curry the thing that's been fascinating for me with him is just how he gets teams when he's on the road these people are rooting for him and they're rooting for the home team but yet he does stuff and people are reacting like he's on their team

and then they catch themselves that's been the recurring theme over and over again when he gets hot or when he pulls up from 31 or 32 who does that? it's so fucking exciting

you're like oh oh and then you're like oh sorry guys it doesn't make any sense his range at this point I don't know how he got there it's so fucking exciting you're like oh oh and then you're like oh sorry guys it doesn't make any sense his range at this point I don't know how

he got there it's like when it reminds me of when Tiger Woods was hitting those drives down the fairways for six years and we're like

Jesus do we have to change the course and the masters what do we do it's also like the four minute mile and I think it has to do with human psychology

is once and you see it with Duncan you see it with dunking you see with jordan because a lot of people play like jordan now yeah um but they didn't before jordan or dr j so i think it's just human psychology once they broke the form in a mile once you start seeing that this is possible then everybody else starts to do it because it just becomes a possibility to the human psyche in that way.

Or the worst case scenario, which is how I think this probably plays out. I think people try to replicate something that's not really replicable. They just start chucking. How many Jordan imitators

were there? I mean, you were going in those games. You were like a legitimate celebrity for the first time in the 90s as those games were. You go in MSG,

you're getting courtside seats. Yeah. You're watching all these people just do mj imitations yeah clear out guys i got this and really he was the only one who could totally do that yeah i guess kobe was the only guy who who came in and kind of did it afterwards yeah he did that he did a poor man's imitation of it but i was talking about like i was talking about lebron for your your version in your book yeah what did you call it the secret am i wrong or that was my thing yeah right and i feel like understanding how i got it he didn't he didn't start with it but he's got it now i think he has most of it i think his leadership got it kobe never got it kobe's like lebron god i understand the secret but i'm gonna try to do it this way doesn't seem as interesting to me yeah how about i win and you guys rebound lebron i feel like he's 92 percent there there's this weird leadership

thing with him where he doesn't you know like if the coach firing and that let's say you're filming the i you know you know where the starting backcourt was when i rode the bench at princeton in the early 80s yeah dave blatt and Steve Mills. What? How do you like that? Silence. I'm stupefied. Those are two characters in the NBA right now. Well, one. So did you stay in touch with Dave Blatt?

No, but Steve... You should have. We could have had all this LeBron dirt. I know, I should have. Well, maybe one day. I feel like LeBron just took him behind this stadium and ran him over with his car, basically. Steve, I see at the Garden when I go. So when you started going, when did you become celebrity gets to go, oh, David Duchovny with light seats. Free tickets.

Yeah. Oh, he's courtside next to Woody Allen. When did that happen? No, no. Woody doesn't have courtside. Woody pays for his own tickets. Right. Oh, I thought he was courtside, though. No. No, no, Woody doesn't have courtside. Woody pays for his own tickets. Right. Oh, I thought he was courtside, though.

No. No, no, no. He's in like row two? Yeah, he's a few rows back, and he pays, I gotta say. They probably don't want him to courtside. I don't know if they want him or not, but he's totally clean. You know, he's got integrity. I have none.

Right. So you're just taking tickets. Yes, I just take tickets. Did you call the first time, or did they offer them to you? I don't know how that worked. I really don't remember, but I was in the building when Starks dunked over Jordan. Oh, that was cool. You know, that was a big moment. So God bless the Knick fans. They've only won one title in like 70 years. I know they don't have a lot to grasp onto. He dunked near Jordan. No, he dunked on Jordan. Nah, he dunked near him.

Jordan was kind of, he passed through. It wasn't a dunking on. It wasn't like Pippen dunking on Ewing. We'll have to look at the tape. Pippen dunked on Ewing and then he stood over him and shook his dong in front of him and stepped over him. That was dunking on. He actually took his dong out.

He took his dong out. He hit Ewing with it. That was before video, I guess. So did anyone ever talk to you when you're sitting courtside these games did any weird nba player just be hey man love the x-files i think tim hardaway made a obscene gesture at at tea when we were sitting oh like in a way you felt like i didn't see it but she said i think he just did something like like i'll see you after the game? Or like, just screw you?

No. Like, it was like, hey, lady? Yeah. Really? But I didn't see it. See, that's an honor. I think you'd feel honored. I didn't bother me at all.

I was like, why not me? You know? What's wrong with me? Let's dance. I want to talk about his crossover. You got nothing to talk to him about. Who? Taya, I'm saying. Oh, yeah, yeah. You got nothing to talk to him about. Who? Taya, I'm saying.

You got nothing to talk to that guy about. Why isn't he looking at me? I can talk about that crossover with him. So we told this story the last time, but the podcast belongs to ESPN, so let's tell it again. You were the runner-up choice for White Men Can't Jump. Well, not a runner-up.

Well, I like to say that you're the runner-up now. I like the way you tell my history. Yeah, I was so close. As far as I'm concerned, you're the runner-up now. Now that the year's passed... I like the way you tell my history. Yeah. Yeah, I was so close. As far as I'm concerned, you're the runner-up. I was right there. You tested for that part. Sure. You did.

I thought you did. Well, a lot of guys did. But yeah... A lot of white guys who could play basketball? Well, no, that was the thing. Before they would even let you act, they had to see if you could play ball at all. Yeah. And...

So what happened to Wesley Snipes? How did he get cast? Well, exactly. That's a good... All his shit was in slow motion. Yeah. You see the ball leaving... A lot of this high stuff.

Come on, Wesley. Right. So we all went down there, and I forget where it was, Big Jim somewhere, and we were playing three-on-threes in front of somebody who was judging us. So was this like white guy palooza?

I think there were some black guys in there too i think they were just oh they're philip i think they were just whoever wanted to audition they were and and i think they were honestly trying they were open to finding an unknown you know white or black for billy hoyo billy hoyo had to be white no no i mean for both for both roles gotcha uh and wesley was a big star at the time so i don't know if they had already had him or they were looking for an unknown or whatever it feels like the studio kind of maybe like hey what about wesley i think it was actually a pretty low budget film yeah and um so we were down there and we were we were getting uh put on these three

on three games and i remember i was i was playing against an actor named billy campbell who's a big uh athletic guy but he'd never played basketball before and he was dangerous he was oh those are the worst like a rugby player yeah you thought you're gonna hurt like a good athlete but just you know playing it like rugby that's why they cast him in enough with jennifer lopez years later as the husband yeah they heard about his casting yeah well he he was strong so anyway so i was i was on a team with um patrick cassidy i believe this is great these are the these the name drops i've been looking for am i going to regret this no this is awesome i love this who else was on the team i love this patrick cassidy i don't know the other guy

he was like an effless no this is part of the story is. I don't know the other guy. He was like an endless celebrity. No, this is part of the story. It was Dustin Dunn. It's that I don't know the other guy. So it's me, Patrick Cassidy, and I don't know the other guy. So we start playing, and I don't know the other guy is just passing to Patrick Cassidy, and Patrick Cassidy is shooting. They're freezing you out. I'm not getting the ball unless I rebound it.

And then, you know, I'm a team player. I throw it to somebody else. You know the secret. I do know the secret, and I don't get it back. Ask Coach Burns if I know the secret. He'll tell you. So we're walking off the court, and I don't think I took a shot. And I say to, I don't know, the other guy as we're leaving,

and he's small, this guy. He doesn't seem like he would be good for any role and I said well what are you doing here who are you here to read for and he said no Patrick just brought me here to pass to him oh yeah

do you think that's why you didn't get the movie who Patrick or me Patrick Cassidy's buddy oh no no I just honestly I don't think I was ready for that kind of a role yet. If it would have been five, six years later, I mean, everything I've done in my career, I think I had to get ready for it. I wasn't one of these guys that came out able to do it. And I think I wasn't ready yet.

Even if I got it, it probably would have been bad for me. How many years after was California? Was that like two, three years later? It's right around that time. It's a creepy movie. Yeah, it is. It's a weird serial killer genre run there in the early 90s. Right.

There's independent films like Natural Born Killers. Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer. Right, yeah. There's a bunch of those in California. Yeah, that's true true just gruesome deaths and people trying to find people yeah yeah that was a good movie though it was all right it was all right i think it brad and young brad pitt you know yeah did i know do you know he was going to be uh an a-plus lister i'd seen um uh thelma louise and he was just such a star. Stealing scenes.

Oh, just with the abs. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that seemed like a movie star. But he was a terrific guy. I took a date to that movie, and I got lucky that night. You did? I think it was because of Brad Pitt. I don't think I did anything.

Was that the fourth time you lost your virginity? Yeah, I was like number seven. But you were the last generation of, if you come along 10 years later, you get thrown into a superhero movie within like three movies. You're like, oh, this Duchovny character, he seems like he's gaining some steam. Let's put a mask on him. Right. I could have been the Green Lantern or something like that. Yeah, somebody.

Are there any superheroes left? Oh, there's a lot. There are? Yeah. As a kid, I never read that. I didn't know comic books. Would you have done one? If they had just been like, here's a giant check and you have to be on a poster?

I probably would have been convinced by agents and managers that it was a good move to do. Right. It would allow me to do the kind of work that I want to do. One them one for you ten for them one for you right yeah i like the career arc i think it was better the way it's not bad i mean you know i sometimes i get frustrated sometimes i want more in the movies but for the most part like i said honestly i feel like i'm a I'm a slow but deep learner, and things came to me at a decent time. And if they'd come earlier, I could have really embarrassed myself. But now I feel really, I feel very good about my craft and my handle on what it is that I do. So I feel okay about it.

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investing and more information when you go to betterment.com slash BS. Betterment, investing made better. And since we're here, let's talk about Slack. It's the unofficially official messaging app for The Ringer. Our whole staff uses it. We plan our newsletter with it. We plan our website with it. We plan our podcasting future with it. And we especially make fun of Tate with it.

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They also have nearly 100 integrations. Integrations? Integrations! Including Dropbox, MailChimp, and Google Drive, visit slack.com slash Bill Simmons and create a new team. You'll get $100 in credit you can use when you decide to upgrade to a paid plan. Slack.com. And thanks Slack for making life at the ringer a lot easier. Back to the David Duchovny interview. Sanders bought you some street cred.

It did. That was like the premier street cred show. I don't know what the equivalent would be now, but in the mid-late 90s, Sanders was the move. If you killed on Sanders, that was like the best thing you could do on TV. I don't know what the equivalent is. Now it's like all these weird, quirky...

There's so many of them. Yeah, there's so many niche shows now. I guess 30 Rock was a good one a few years ago. Yeah. But Sanders, you know, did you ever meet Gary? I did. I actually spent a whole day with him once. That's right.

He told me that he enjoyed meeting him. I went to a boxing match with him and Pete Berg. I love Sanders. Pete's a good guy, too. Pete's a good friend. I mean, I love Shanley. I mean, I get them confused. No, I like that.

They own a boxing gym together. Did you know that? Oh, I know. I'm actually uncomfortable around shanley because that show was like my favorite show and i don't know how to be around people that like i genuinely loved yeah and it's just weird to just hear them talking and just being a normal person and i was just constantly thinking like oh my god if i had told myself that this was going to happen in 97 when right we would have like larry sanders parties right well i i the reason i I got on Sanders was because I was in Vancouver shooting The X-Files and

I was obsessed with the show. Yeah. And I would get the tapes, VHS tapes sent to me in Vancouver and I'd watch Sanders. And I said to my agents, I don't care about it. I just want to, can I get on that show? I'll do anything. Yeah. And I'll even have a homoerotic crush on Larry.

I don't care. That was later, after we became friends. But the first time I did the show, I play a guy, I play myself who gets bumped by, of all people, Bill Cosby. Because Cosby goes too long on the show and I get bumped. I'm laying off that one. Well, it's historical record. Yeah. I have to enter it.

Yeah. I had like seven jokes, but i laid off of all of them yeah i got nothing yeah so uh good non-joke effort by both of us yeah so um it was funny because i'm i i i just turn into an i'm very nice and then i get bumped by cosby and then I turned into an asshole. And, and that was just that episode. And then Gary and I became friends. And after that, we were talking about what else can you do? And then we came up with the man crush thing later on.

Did he bite you into his basketball game? Yeah. That's when I, you're probably way too good to be in that basketball game. Well, there's some good players. No, there were some good players and it's,

it's more for the, it's more for the, it's more for the hang. It is. It was a great, and you would eat afterwards. You'd watch football's more for the human. It's more for the hang. It is. It was a great, and you would eat afterwards. You'd watch football, be on a Sunday. It was a great, those were great Sunday afternoons. So then when you flashed your scrotum on the show,

you never knew that the YouTube internet freeze-frame era was coming. Well, couldn't you see it for like a split second? Honestly, I've never really, I know what it looks like. I don't need to see it on video. That would be, see, it's such a shame. The story behind that is, and it's very show business. I'm going to sound like an asshole telling it.

No, please. We were, there was a Golden Globes and I came down from Vancouver and Tay and I were staying in the Four Seasons because I was living in Vancouver. And I invited Gary over after the award ceremony. We were just hanging out, having some drinks. And I was in my robe because I'd come home and I got all that makeup and shit off me. And we're just sitting around. I said, wouldn't it be funny if I came on the show and I had a crush on you and I did the Sharon Stone thing? Yeah.

And that's how it all started from the four seasons there. But there were two Gary stories that I like to tell. And one is when I first got there. Is this too long? Am I going on too long? I love this. You can never go on too long with Gary Shandling. When I first got there at the show, I mean, I was kind of in awe.

Like you, I'm sitting there and I'm watching them do the talk show segment, and it was done in basically like a talk show set with a lot of seats for an audience, and I was just sitting in the dark in the audience. No audience, but seats. And I'm watching him do his Sanders thing, and we're going to do a scene in the hallway afterwards where I get bumped and I get pissed off.

And he comes back into the audience and he's looking at at at the stage and he looks at me and it's clear he has no idea who I am or why I'm there and because I they told me oh Gary loves you he wants you on the show and I'm sitting there and he looks at me and I'm like, hey, nothing, right? So we go back and we go to shoot the hallway scene. And we shoot one take. And Gary cuts and he looks at me and he goes, you know, like he does. He kind of just scrutinizes me. And he goes, how old are you?

And I said, 33. And he goes, what took you so long? Which I thought was such a great compliment right so that was always my that's how i met him that's can i interrupt story number two with yeah off a story off a story number one i did colbert show in like 2005 yeah and then i did it again four years later and he he comes to introduce to meet the guests before the show right he's like hey it's so nice to meet you. And I'm like, I was crestfallen.

It was like, wow, I did not leave a dent in that first impression. Yeah, well, hopefully he was busy. You should have a guy telling him. I'm still a little wounded. You should have a guy whispering. Yeah, no, you had him in 2005. Tell him he was great. Ask about his daughter's name.

Ask about, you know, it's like that one. That's what like Obama has, right? When Obama's at a cocktail party. I heard about it first that Don Rickles had somebody like that. Don Rickles? Yeah, which is fantastic. Well, I mean, he's been in show business for 80 years. He's still alive.

He's got somebody in his ear. All right, story number two. Shanling. So I take Shanling. He's in new york and i say i gotta get you to the rucker tournament because because you're a real hoops fan and you go i'm a real hoops fan i'm a new york guy yeah i mean it's it's holy and guys and people outside of the city don't know it really they still don't know it i mean maybe they've seen some stuff now

that there's so much on cable. I think there was a show about it, maybe. There's never the right documentary. Not about that. No. Because it's a feeling there that is nowhere else. And in fact, later on in the day, there was a guy commentating on the court. There's a guy with a mic talking to people who are dribbling to my name there is what you're gonna do what you're gonna do yeah so and gary was like that's

the future of commentating so get ready wow get ready to get out there with the players it's gonna be stephen a smith exactly she's wandering abroad go pass no le will LeBron go shoot? LeBron's hair is melting off. So, excuse me. We get there and it's all black. I mean, it's a homogenous group. And Gary and I are two of maybe 10 white guys who are there. Patrick Cassidy. Yeah, Patrick, who oddly enough was passed to all day long.

And this guy comes up to Gary and he says, Gary Shanley, you are nonchalantly talented. And to this day, it's like- That's amazing. It's the best- Nonchalantly talented i know i always totally know what that means i know but you do and you don't and it's like it's that's like a gravestone moment that would have been a good name for uh the website we're trying to name our

website for nonchalantly we got the ringer but nonchalantly talented i like the ringer i like the nonchalantly talented it's not bad That's something. Maybe that's like a Showtime pilot. Nonchalantly talented. Nonchalantly talented. It's perfect and mystical and undefinable. I hate to do this to you, but the Knicks aren't good. Tell that story again. The Knicks aren't good. The Knicks aren't good at basketball.

No, the Knicks aren't good at basketball. They haven't been good at basketball. Love Porzingis. You like Porzingis. I like Porzingis i like porzingis but then they give him they have derrick fisher who's terrible they fire him how can you tell if derrick fisher's terrible because i i watched nick's games oh so you watch the way they're coached i can't tell the coaching i was like are you are you tanking you don't have a first round

pick like it'd be one thing if if like they were playing the way they played But they had their first round pick I'd be like oh he's kind of an evil genius He's doing just enough to blow these games down the stretch But they didn't have their first round pick You're really putting me in a tough spot because Oh you don't want to Yeah you don't want the Knicks to get mad at you Yeah

Alright so let me just say stuff And you'll be uncomfortable So they haven't They haven't really succeeded in 15, 16 years. Not a lot of success. They've had like one winning playoff series. But yet Porzingis shows up. I love Porzingis.

The Knicks fans all get mad. They're mean to him at the draft. Everyone goes crazy. And now he's like the savior. It's unbelievable. Yeah, I don't know what his limit is. I know what his limit is right now. It's Kurt Rambis.

Kurt Rambis, there's a story today. It's like, we think Porzingis, his future might be at small forward. It's like, you have- He's seven foot three. Yeah. You've literally, the way basketball is being played now, where everyone's looking for a stretch five who can shoot threes on one end and play defense on the other end. This guy fell out of the fucking sky.

He can shoot threes and he can protect the rim. This is it. You have the perfect stretch five. He's like, ah, he might be a small forward. What a moron. I thought that was fireable. Well, I mean, every other team in the league would literally commit a murder for him. How about Phil Jackson comparing Steph Curry to who did he?

Mahmoud Abdul-Raouf, Chris slash Chris Jackson. Yeah. What was that? Phil's kind of, he's reached that stage. He's a bit of a hater? No, he's like that. Like when you get together for a big family gathering at Thanksgiving, you have like the crazy uncle or the grandfather is like, people are just afraid of Trump.

He's speaking the truth. That's like the guy and everyone's like all right uncle jack that's cool right that's kind of what phil jackson's turning into at the nba he thinks he's said stuff everyone's like okay cool phil jackson that's great it made no sense though that um it doesn't make sense that he's running it i don't know why rambus is coaching right now i mean rambus knows that he's not the coach he knows he's not the coach he doesn't want sense that he's running a team. I don't know why Rambis is coaching right now. I mean, Rambis knows that he's not the coach. Rambis doesn't know. He knows he's not the coach. He doesn't want to be head coach. Well, maybe, so maybe the small forward move

is Rambis' way of saying. Trying to get fired? No, or the other way, it's like, maybe it's such a Hail Mary if it works. Oh my God, Kurt Rambis, nobody else saw it. Porzingis is a small forward. He's a guard. Yeah.

He's a seven foot three guard. Why not? Play him a point guard. Have Porzingis bring the ball up he's a guard he's a 7'3 guard why not play him a point guard have Porzingis bring the ball up I want to see that how about hiring Dave Blatt how about hiring Dave Blatt to coach the Knicks

little Princeton Steve Mills hires Dave Blatt you didn't keep in touch with him though that's alright we'll get back together I just heard from my the shortstop on the team today

I haven't heard from him in 30 years it can you know people get back in touch. What made you decide to do X-Files again? Just because it was there and it just seemed like something to try and see if we still had life left in that thing.

You know? And the answer is yes, right? I guess the answer is yes. Why do you guess? Well, no, it is. I mean, it's just... I always thought we would continue to do movies of X-Files and not the television show. That was always my desire and my thoughts when I left the show. Right.

And for some reason, the second movie just soured the taste of the franchise for Fox. And, you know, we talked about doing all these comic books and here's a homegrown franchise that they own. Yeah. And they treat it like crap in a way. Sounds like Grantland. Okay. Well, you understand how this goes.

I deeply, deeply understand. It's very odd. Yeah. I'm sure you were confused. Well, the hardest thing to do is create a brand. Like when we did 30 for 30, we finished 30 for 30. Everybody liked it. It won awards.

Loved it. And then they were like, okay, we're good. And we're like, but everyone, it's already in the DVR season pass. And people like it. And it's a brand. And if we released another one, people get excited. And they're like, no, no, no. We're going to brand this stuff ESPN Films.

And we're like, but it's a brand people like we're releasing documentaries now and people are calling them 30 for 30s and they're not 30 for 30 like let's we should run with the 30 it's really hard to create a brand do you know how many times i've seen is it survive in advance yes that was a 30 30 that one kills me john hawk it's a good one Val Vanna you know what else is great is Muhammad and Larry one of the first ones he just died Maisels that's a great one

that's a great one I like that one that was that was one of my favorite 30 for 30 stories because we were going around all these directors

trying to convince them to be in the first batch because everyone's like ESPN you guys don't know how to do documentaries why would I do this and we hit a couple and then we met with uh i always forget if it's mazels or mazels i think

it's one of those you can go either way but uh but he's talking he's like you know i did this documentary once with uh when we were kings no he was like before the Holmes Ali fight and we never we never did anything with it I think it's in a warehouse somewhere and and uh the people that were meeting with him from our side were like what warehouse what and so they go and they find and he's got all this footage he shot documentary style of Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali leading up to that fight we were like oh my god how about that footage of Ali trying to hit the speed bag? It's rough. There's some rough Ali footage out there. I was watching because I'm a weirdo.

I was watching A Football Life with Lyle Alzado on the NFL Network. Because that's what I do on a Friday night. And I totally forgot Ali fought him for like 10 rounds. Ali had all these fights. Fought who? He fought Lyle Alzado at Mile High Stadium. Why did he fight? How old was he?

Because Ali just, he needed money. He just fought all the time. He'd fight us right now if we had 10 bucks. How could Alzado go? Because he was a Golden Gloves guy. He was? And he had 40 pounds of steroids in his body. Did he fight him or run from him?

No, he fought him and punched him. He did? And in the second round, he was really hitting him. And Ali got pissed. Yeah, sure. Because I was like, this is an exhibition. Ali thought it was an exhibition. I was like, oh, boom boom and just started peppering him for the rest of the round i'll say it was like but um oh wait so x-files is a brand yes so fox has it so you think comes back

well for the second movie fox spent like 30 million dollars nothing and brought it out against batman and the summer blockbuster. That's a mistake. It's a huge mistake. So if you have your brand, you have your franchise, it's a sci-fi blockbuster type show, spend the money and make it bigger. But they made a smaller and the movie did okay, but it didn't do what the first one did. So it seemed to take the air out of everything.

And they gave up. Yeah, they pretty much did give up and i think what happened was with the revolution in cable television and and then kind of going over to network tv where people started seeing 8 and 10 and 12 episode seasons of things it became a no-brainer to go okay well why don't we why don't we do because none of us are interested in doing 20 or 24 again, an amount of episodes is just not, not doable at this stage for any of us. So we thought six, eight, 10, 12. Yeah, we could do that. Yeah. So if you did a movie, it would have been two hours, right? But if you do an eight episode show, when you remove all the commercials,

it's 45 times eight, I don don't know six hours yeah so basically you're filming a six hour movie and and honestly when all is said and done i don't know that a two hour frame is the best thing for the x-files i don't think it is i think it's a long you know because the show itself has so many different tonalities that and it has mythology it has humor it has it can sometimes have romance it can always be a thriller it can be sci-fi it can be paranormal it can be all these different things and it's hard to do all that in two hours but if you expand to eight or ten hours you can do it and you also had so the x-files what year did it start? 93. 93, pre-internet. And then as it's going along. I said that, you know, they told me like in the third or fourth year,

oh yeah, there's this thing where people are in chat rooms talking about the show. And I was like, that sounds so stupid. I had the exact, my friend Nick Aida in Boston, I went to college with, they were all in the X-Files. And one time he was on some he's in some area like a message board in there and i'm like the hell are you doing right it was like he was a waste of time it's like a child pornographer or something wait get out of there what's going on you're just talking to people who you don't know these people what's happening right and then

it kind of took off right you know what else is interesting about the x-files i have this i forget where i heard this from it's not mine but now I steal it and I pretend it's mine. It's a great theory. Nostalgia. Basically, it's about the 20 year mark with nostalgia. It's somewhere around there when something hits. And then about 20 years later, people are ready to redo it. And the best example of this is the Brady Bunch movie.

Remember when the first Brady Bunch movie came out? It was like literally 20 years after the Brady Bunch. And everybody was like, this is great. the brady bunch movie remember when the brady first brady bunch movie came out people it was like literally 20 years after the brady bunch and everybody was like this is great the brady bunch ha ha ha now oh i can take my kids to the brady bunch and and it kind of just capitalized on that x files it's been about 20 years so you have all the people that loved it initially but now like let's say i'm 40 and i have a 14 year old kid i can watch it with the 14 year old kid right now you're getting this new generation well you just people just don't want to come back as farce what's that what's that saying history repeats itself right first is you want to be

a modernized version yes you know i like the brady bunch came back as kind of a time was making fun of it yeah right so we didn't really you you know, feel like. You were continuing it. That's what we wanted to do. Yeah. You know, we didn't feel like yet going out there and making fun of it. But you know what I mean though. I do. Like you're, you're, you're basically exploiting people's love for something that happened a certain time away.

In fact, I have a similar theory in the book. Yeah. At some point when you read it. You just gave it to me. I know. No, no, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't saying like when you read it. I heard it come out that way I didn't mean it

but the narrator of the book has a theory that the decades are actually the decades after them

so the 60s is really the 70s and the 70s is really the 80s because it takes 10 years for the decade to fully become itself

so yeah we're probably so now we're really in the a aughts right now that's what we're really in and i don't think we've figured out that this is we're in the social media immersed in the social media but i think next decade we're going to be like oh my god right we'll figure out people are now going to lunch with each other but just texting each other instead of actually having a conversation that's where we're heading i I think. Well, you see the way your kids do it, right?

How old are your kids? 17, gonna be 17 in April and 14 in June. So the 14 is more in that whole generation. No, 17 year old is definitely in that generation. I mean, she's- Both of them? Yeah, they don't talk on the phone, really. They just text.

My daughter communicates with their friends on text with emojis and bitmojis i was so pleased i got an x-file bitmoji oh yeah congratulations it was a big moment in my household that i bitmojied my daughter with my own personal x-file bitmoji and i don't know if i've ever felt prouder it's or i don't know if she've ever felt prouder. Or I don't know if she's ever felt prouder of me. I don't know which. We were at the Kings game last night, and they do this thing with emojis with the players where they give them an emoji with three logos,

and they have to guess what it is. So they're holding the sheet up, and they're like, my daughter's like, clockwork orange. Like, she just, no. It's like they're at this whole other level of understanding symbols and figures and how to put them together as sentences. And all the parents were just sitting there confused. Yeah, my daughter's like my tech support.

Yeah. I just hand her my phone and she makes it work. I don't get it. It scares me a little bit. But on the other hand, I'm sure we scared our parents the same way, right? Yeah. My father had a reel-to-reel you know tape recorder that he listened to billy holiday on you know and then i had uh i had a record player and then i had cassettes and then i had cds and whatever

it just changes i think the human experience i don't think human nature changes we just our tools change a little bit so i i think it appears scarier than it really is you know there are all these studies about what it does to your brain i don't know what was the best under 25 um either critique or compliment or whatever you heard about the x-files as it hit this new generation oh i kind of stay away from reading i just i just i just google did you feel like it regenerated the uh interest in the alien and what the hell is that i feel like it did a little bit i feel like uh the kids like like that um but i don't know i didn't i didn't really seek that stuff out so i

don't i don't know so you avoid all that stuff i i avoided it when i can yeah i avoided as much as i can i haven't read reviews for probably 15, 20 years. Really? Yeah. You just avoid everything? Mm-hmm. It's an impressive discipline. It is.

It is. It's hard. Because, you know, you'll always get like your friend who says, I don't care what the New York Times says. You're like, what did they say? Your buddy from Californication. Evan? Your sidekick. Evan Handler.

Yeah. Love Evan. He is in the OJ movie, or the OJ miniseries as Alan Dershowitz. Is he? I missed the OJ thing. With a perm afro. I hear it's good. Oh, you're missing out. Should I watch it?

Should I binge watch it? Yes. I'll binge watch it. Oh, you're missing out. Should I watch it? Should I binge watch it? Yes. I'll binge watch it. Yes, you should absolutely binge watch it. How many episodes are there? I think we're through six. Travolta plays Shapiro. That's good.

I love Travolta. Malcolm Jamal Warner is A.C. Cowlings. Is he really? Rod Tidwell is O.J. Who is? Rod Tidwell. Keep it good and cheap. Okay.

It's like, I don't know that actor. There's a whole bunch of them. Courtney Vance is Johnny Cochran. I hear he's great. He's great. Yeah. There's actually, I think there's probably somebody's, I think Sarah Paulson plays Marsha Clark.

I think she's actually going to win the Emmy for something. Sarah Paulson's a terrific actress. Really good. Yeah. Good in Studio 60, which I still have a lot of regrets about. Yes. Yes. I still think that show could have made it.. Really good. Yeah. Good in Studio 60, which I still have a lot of regrets about. Yes, yes, yes. I still think that show could have made it. Amanda Peete.

Yeah. That was my, that was Matthew Perry's. Yes. Kind of his moment. Yeah. To branch out from Friends with this awesome, and he was like, it was a career year for him. It just didn't work out.

Yeah. Well, I don't know why it didn't. I know why. Because he tried, Sorkin tried to write the sketches. Oh. Yeah. And then 30 Rock happened at the same time, right? Yeah, and that didn't help either.

Right, so you couldn't have two shows. No. Somebody had to win. There could only be one. Hey, can we talk about your theory about how older women like my mom love Californication? Yeah.

For cultural reason? My mom is... I'm just going to say it. I don't care if she gets mad at me. My mom is 67. All right. Well, that's perfect. And this is... No good will come to me from this discussion.

No, this is a theory. You're not supporting it. I'm just... I have been approached by women of that age who say it's refreshing to see men, a man behave that way unapologetically. That's all, that's all I'll say. I mean, it's just anecdotal. It's happened a few times, a few times on the street in New York. You felt like that was a base of that show where older women in their fifties and sixties that Hank Moody responded or. Oh responded or oh god no no i don't

i don't so i i don't i don't think there's actually any any truth to the fact that we have a demographic in that age group well that would make me feel better i'm just saying i'm just saying anecdotally it's happened a few times you've lied i'll you know what i'll call showtime and I'll say show me the graph my mom loved that show and I was always like that's a little disturbing yeah it might be her favorite movie is Sex, Lies and Videotape

okay well this is about your mom really maybe it is did that show go on the right amount of time one year too long or one year too early you know everything goes on too long but it was the right amount of time, one year too long or one year too early? You know, everything goes on too long, but it was the right amount of time. At the same time, if I can answer both. You never know. I mean, with a show like that, it's like every year you could find your mojo.

You know, it just depends on every year was a different milieu that the guy was in. So, like, does it work in the rock and roll world? Does it work when he's a TV writer? You just never know what's going to really gonna really work for that what's your favorite thing you've done um i mean sentimentally i don't think i was ever happier than when i was writing directing a movie called house of deeds the one movie that i've written and directed and i just think like uh on on all levels like spiritually soulfully creatively i was involved uh so you know regardless of the end product or whether or not you like it or hate it or whatever uh personally the act of doing it was probably the most

fulfilling i've had as a as a creative professional so what's next your book comes out book comes out um i'm actually i made some music last year i'm gonna tour europe with i have an album what i didn't i should have brought you that yeah yeah yeah i started playing music just recently like four or five years ago and then i started writing songs and i i recorded an album it sounds like a terrible terrible idea i i i realized that and as you're sitting there i can see it on your face no i'm i just i i but And I recorded an album. It sounds like a terrible, terrible idea. I realize that. And as you're sitting there, I can see it on your face. No, I'm more confused. I didn't know you played music.

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't. It's new. It's new. I'm a bad guitar player, but I'm good enough to put chords together and find melodies. And I write lyrics. I would have reacted the same if you had said, you know, on the side, I'd, I'm working on some nuclear fusion. I've been like,

what? I know. So I, I'll give you a little tour of Europe. Uh, the album's been out almost a year. You know, it's like,

it's not the kind of music that people, it's like seventies rock. It's like the rock that you probably, you, you might even like it. I'll send you, I'll send you a CD. I was devastated when Sirius got rid of the Yacht Rock channel.

Yacht Rock. What is Yacht Rock? Tell me what Yacht Rock is and I'll tell you whether I fit in there. Okay. Yacht Rock was a very happy genre. Don't say Jimmy Buffett. No. Jimmy Buffett was his own thing.

This is more like the Eagles take it easy through Christopher Cross. Doobie brothers to me michael mcdonald is the face of yacht rock okay it's not quite yacht rock okay i would say it's it's more like wilco uh petty maybe lou reed a little lou reedy if i'm lucky you'll i don't know i don't know what i would call that. You'll judge. Chevy Rock? Chevy Rock. Lou Reed-y. Lou Reed-y. Lou Reed got dark.

Yeah, there's some darkness to it. I mean, it's not happy music. So you're touring Europe? Lyrically. What parts of Europe? Glasgow, London, Paris, Madrid. So you're really doing this. Zurich. Places I've never been.

You continue to fascinate me. You're always up to stuff. Yeah, I'm going to do 10 dates in 14 days. It's going to be a whirlwind. And the rooms are, you know, like 1,500, 2,000 people. They're not tiny. Wow. And I've done about 10, 15 concerts.

And it's fun. I find it interesting. And X-Files is happening again? It might. It has to, right? It did fun. I find it interesting. And X-Files is happening again? It might. It has to, right? It did well. Anytime something does well, they bring it back. Yeah, they will.

You should pretend you're not going to do it again. As your unofficial agent, like, nah, you know, we did it. I can't imagine why we do it again. It just depends on scheduling with Jillian. She lives in London, and Chris Carter, whether or not he wants to do it again. Because he's got the lion's share of the work. He writes most of them, and he's been directing them. That's a lot more work.

I just directed an Aquarius that we're shooting. We forgot to talk about Aquarius. My mom watches that show, too. She's all in on Duchovny. Have you thought maybe she's just a fan of me? Oh, I haven't thought it. I know it. Okay.

Well, then maybe she doesn't really like california cage but she watches it because because i'm in it a little bit i don't know no i think it's both um aquarius it's time she remembers it's nice it's the 60s so we're just yeah we're just finishing the second season uh in the next couple weeks how many seasons is that yeah how many seasons it could go five uh i mean five is like the vision for the series i don't know if we're gonna get if we're gonna get to go five but five five would be the show the show what lasts longer aquarius or uh the knicks in the lottery what do you mean by the knicks in the lottery i mean when do the knicks make the playoffs again

oh when are they when are you going to a Knicks playoff game? Oh, wow. This long pause is not good for the Knicks. It's really not. See, I don't want to just go to the playoffs. I want to rebuild. You want to go backwards again. You have your next two first rounders.

When does that happen? 17 and 18. You have your next two first rounders. When does that happen? 17 and 18. You have those. Who did we give up this year for? You should have traded Carmelo. That was the move. You should have traded him this year and gotten a lottery pick for him. Where would Carmelo go?

Anywhere. By the time you're good again, he's washed up. You think LeBron would have taken Carmelo? I actually think the Celtics would have made a lot of sense. I'm not just saying that because that's my team. Because the Celtics have all these picks, and they want him to be good, and they're ready to actually overpay to get a guy. And that's the perfect team to trade with.

You want to trade with somebody that's doing something for not necessarily a smart reason. Cleveland took JR. Can you explain to me the shoelace incident? I can't explain anything with JRr smith but i can't explain this i just can't see him winning a title you think he'll just do something yeah i just think he's like a stick of dynamite that's just it's just what an athlete though huh what an athlete yeah he's just these guys that always get in incidents and have weird things happen and the shoelace thing it was stupid i didn't get't get it. I just didn't know what he was doing.

I didn't know what he was doing. You asked if I had any experiences with players. When I watched the Lakers, all right, there's two stories? Sure. Okay. One is about me. The first one is I didn't have a great experience playing at Princeton. I came out of high school, all I wanted to do was play ball.

I knew I wasn't going to be a pro at that point, but I did want to play in college, and it didn't work out for me the way I wanted it to. Fucking Blatt. It was Blatt and Mills. It was Blatt's fault. And it was always like a heartbreak for me. Yeah.

It still is. You know, it's just something I missed. And so the Sacramento Kings were playing the Lakers. And I think 2000 when they had Weber and Vlade and they were great. They were better than the Lakers. Yeah. And I knew a little bit, the Maloufs who owned the team. I don't know if they own it anymore.

They do not. And Pete Carrillo was the assistant coach who was legendary coach of princeton when i was there hall of fame yeah and um i was like fuck it i'm gonna i'm gonna talk to coach grill and just i'm gonna you know i'd love to just shake his hand and say hi and um i went up to the moose and i said after the game do you think maybe i could say hi to coach carrill and they said sure sure we'll tell him and then i don't know if you remember this game but it the the kings should have won they had the game that was the whole series was the robber shot kobe went to the line no it was the game before that oh the game six the ref sent kobe to the line oh this was the famous game you're

talking about it was a total job. Yeah, yeah. Game six. Legendary game. It was... I remember I watched that game. It was so shady. It was horrifying. It was the league basically saying, we're sending the Lakers to the finals. Exactly.

Yeah. And the Kings were good. The Kings were better. They were better. Yeah. Because game four, they lost on the Miracle Robert Horace shot. Right.

And then this game was basically called in by Vince McMahon. It was like when the league gave Wade the championship against... Oh, yeah. You know, they just sent him to the line. Big fat ribbon on it. They just sent him to the line. Anytime he goes to the basket, call foul. Right.

So I'm glad we cleared this up. Yeah, no question. Yeah. So they give the Lakers that game. And I went to the Maloofs and I said, I understand if coach doesn't want to that was horrible yeah I said I I really feel bad about that game I if he doesn't want to talk and they said no no we told him he'd love to see you so I wait in that you know that archway that they always shoot in movies you know

when you're going out to the court, right? Like that dramatic. And I see this figure waddling at me, and he's tiny and round, Coach Carrillo. And he always kind of shuffles. He's always got a cigar. And he gets within about 20 feet of me, and he goes, aren't you glad I cut you? And I was like, and he's still walking towards me. And I'm like, well, I think I quit to play baseball. But no, he says, no, I cut you and i was like and he's still walking towards me i'm like well i think i quit to play

baseball but nice now i cut you i was like i was like no coach i think i quit he goes that doesn't matter you're doing so well look at you you're doing great i was like yeah how are you it's nice to see you what a weird opener it was great it was so coach carrill it was so perfect and it kind of summed up my entire basketball experience at princeton what was second i was just happy you remembered me um one one uh game they were playing the blazers and uh sabonis years and and uh they were blown they blew them out so in the fourth quarter glenn fry who was sitting next to me rest in peace got up to go so now i wasn't with him we were just sitting together and then um did you say take it easy i did not i did not and uh so i've got an empty seat, courtside. And earlier in the game, the ball boy had come up to me

because I'd made eye contact with Shaq. You know how it is. Well, when you're commentating, it was different because you couldn't really be a fan. I know. I probably tried to still be a fan a little too much. But I would sit and kind of try to make eye contact with players that I like if I can, just to see if they recognize me.

When I met Frazier, well, Frazier was huge for me. He had no idea who I was. That's fine. But I got to meet him. He's like, I love the Z-Files. He tried to rhyme my name and it didn't work. I was hooping and swooping. So the ball boy, I said, the ball boy comes up to me,

like in the middle of first quarter, and he says, Shaq wants to know if you're going to do any more X-Files because I had left the show at that point. During the game? Yeah. And I said, I don't know, but tell Shaq, because Shaq wants to know he doesn't watch the show if you're not on it. So I said, tell Shaq I don't watch the Lakers when he's injured.

So he goes there, and I see Shaq laugh, and I'm like, it's happening. It's on, me and Shaq. So the game goes on. Glenn Frey leaves, and they take Shaq out. Eight minutes to go. I mean, it's a blowout. And Shaq, instead of going to the bench,

sits in Glenn Frey's seat next to me. And his whole stadium is laughing. And, you know, I feel kind of like the butt of a joke, but it's okay. I also am very self-conscious about being, I felt tiny next to him. You were like Tattoo in Fantasy Island next to him. I did. I felt like less than a man all of a sudden. And I like Tattoo and Fantasy Allen next to him. I did.

I felt like less than a man all of a sudden. And I just, I was trying to sit up straight. And I have a great picture from the LA Times the next day of he and I sitting together. So then we kind of spent the last four minutes of the quarter just hanging out and talking. This must have been after Shaq won three titles. Did they let him sit in the crowd?

No, that's when he was like, I don't care anymore. I'm just going to do weird stuff. Like sit next to celebrities in this dance. What do you do? I'm sure you're shown all the time on the Jumbotron video screen, whatever it's called. Very hard. It's a hard moment.

Let me, let me keep it on for four seconds too long. Let me out the moment. Yeah, please. I'll give you my thought process. First of all, they come to you and they ask, can we put you on? I'm getting the free tickets. I want to say no. I don't want to be on the Jumbotron, but I feel like I should.

It's only right. Right? I mean, I'd really be an asshole to say, yes, I'll take the free ticket, but no, you can't put me on the Jumbotron. Agreed? Agreed. Have to. You have to put in the time. I think so.

They hooked you up. Now, they come to you a couple minutes before and they say, next commercial, you're going to go on. And now I start to sweat and I'm like... Do I have kale on my teeth? I'm doing my hair. But my biggest fear is that... Well, first of all, I am listening to the applause of the other

people up on the jumbotron so your competitive applause competitive how do you not yeah how do you know i don't want to and i act like i'm talking when it's happening but i'm really listening and i'm just i'm just don't want to get booed you know basically and i don't know why they would boo me because you're a knicks fan they're not no no no yeah now they don't know me as a nick fan in in in l.a it's just i just have this well why would you get booed in new york it's just me i'm just thinking like i just don't want to get i just don't want them to laugh or boo it's just like a primal thing okay it's like i just thought you had bought it or just total silence or fans silence would be the worst that's all I'm thinking please don't let the

boos outweigh the cheers or the laughter outweigh both of those things and let there not be silence and it does go on for too long and what are you supposed to do? you wave or you give them the thumbs up I like it in fights the boxers just do this

the boxers have the best out for want to box. The boxers just do this. The boxers have the best out for all of this. Any picture, anything. They just do. But fans, they feel like they got to like throw punches at the camera. What are you supposed to do at a ball game? And then you're like looking at yourself and that always looks bad. It's never good.

It's a lose-lose, but you got to pay the dues. So Jay-Z is the best I've ever seen at this what does he do so jay-z will be courtside for like a clippers game with beyonce right so first of all he pretends complete surprise that he's on even though the cameraman's been there it's like and then he laughs it makes him happy that he laughs hysterically he looks over to who he's with has another laugh looks back up laughs again and then it's over and if the camera's still on him he's just makes it uncomfortable for the day basically like i'm done with this oh really stop laughing yeah it's just done he's like back he's like oh i'm probably not on camera anymore even though he knows he is

and they just have to turn because then it's just like you're being weird putting a camera on somebody who's not looking okay that's good but you know who's actually the best who Dustin Hoffman really what does he do he always does the kiss cam smart and he always does it with the person who's not his wife like next to him or he's always got a plan and I saw him do it once with Jason Bateman the kiss cam comedian yeah he's great he did plan. And I saw him do it once with Jason Bateman. The Kiss Cam comedian. Yeah, he's great. He did it once. They came, you know, they did the Kiss Me, right?

Yeah. And he had a Kobe mask on and he kissed. Or he kissed somebody wearing a Kobe mask. Kobe mask is dangerous. That could go in a lot of bad directions. Well, Dustin is the best. He dominates the Kiss Cam in LA. That's great.

He dominates. At the Kings games. And he works at, you know, he's always got a thing in LA. That's great. At the Kings games. And he works at, you know, he's always got a thing. He never comes unprepared. He's like Louis CK. He does a fresh hour of comedy every year.

It's impressive. At the LA Kings game, they show these two old people at the end of every kiss cam thing who just make out. And they've got to be a combined 180 years old. And the crowd goes crazy. I know people like to hate on the kiss cam, but I have wept during the kiss cam.

Really? Tears of joy or actual tears? It feels beautiful. I like to see, you know, I think it's like, I like the song. The song is nice. And I just like, you know, sometimes you see like an old couple and they'll just kiss and you just feel like their love and their longevity. And it's like, I do. I like the kiss cam.

I don't know why it belongs in a sporting event. I've always said it should be when ABC, you know, they'll have a show and it'll get canceled after two episodes and then they don't know what to do and they just replay Scandal. I think they should just run the kiss cam for an hour. I think it would work. The kiss cam does something to people when they just replay Scandal. I think they should just run the kiss cam for an hour. I think it would work. The kiss cam does something to people when they see it. They just watch this. If you look around when the kiss cam's happening, everyone is watching it. They're more interested in the kiss cam than the game.

So there's some sort of something there. There's something about the kiss cam. And there's a couple kiss cam gimmicks that always work, like putting the wrong two people in the shot. And then you go over. And then they go over. Oh, no, that's's the one or putting the two guys next to each other always kills so my daughter every time they do the kiss cam she literally did they do it in every arena everywhere everywhere the kiss cam is yeah it's it's it's guaranteed right she she hides oh she

hides she hides under the seat because she doesn't want to be on the kiss cam with me. I don't blame her. Which hurts my feelings. No, it shouldn't. Well, one time she's going to. If I go with you, I won't hide. Thank you. I appreciate that.

No, it's just standard. She just hides behind the seat. When she's like 23, is she still going to be doing this? When is this end? She won't be with you when she's 23. That's true. I have her for like another year, right? How much longer do I have? She turns 11 in six weeks three or four years you got

a couple years a couple years i think so it depends great depends on puberty and all that you know it's it you know it's a different call she's like she's probably my best friend i'm just she's gonna be gone in a year i know but she's really sad i feel like she's going my best friend she's going to be gone in a year it's really sad I feel like she's going off to war or something really she's just going off to administration she's gone well it is sad but it's beautiful and it's right it's the way things are

I think it's just sad I don't see the beautiful part at all well you once she leaves you which she will you will probably cry at the kiss camp that's probably what it is I'll miss seeing her duck in the seat there would just be nobody next to me which she will you will probably cry at the kiss camp it's probably that's probably what it is i'll miss seeing her duck in the seat there would just be nobody it's a beautiful story i'm i would miss that too i would miss that when i interviewed obama for gq yeah i talked about his daughters

with them and he actually got like a tiny bit emotional talking about like how he's lost his daughters and he's not cool to them anymore and he's been told they come back eventually and i'm thinking like he's the president yeah and even his daughters don't think he's cool cool to them anymore. And he's been told they come back eventually. And I'm thinking like, he's the president. And even his daughters don't think he's cool. So I know it's going to happen to me. I'm definitely not as cool as the POTUS. And his daughters ditched him. It's sad.

I think if she ditches me, I might just adopt like another eight year old. You know, like in TV sitcoms that lasted too long when somebody joins the cast. You can cast your life like a TV show. Somebody with curly hair. Yeah. Be like, oh, she's been added to the cast this year.

Like, oh, watch it. You're not going to the Kings game anymore. Here's our new cast member. Submit your own. Yeah. Do you just have the one daughter? And a son. How old is he?

He's eight. He's going to live at home until he's like 38. So I'm good with him. Yeah, boys are not smart. He wants to be a professional wrestler. No, they're really stupid. No. They're stupid human beings uh but you'll have him so don't worry about i'm gonna have him forever i'm gonna be supporting him yeah he's gonna be in college for seven years i basically have jimmy buss as my son he'll be running the lakers someday he's gonna do something

i don't know what it'll be but it'll be something all right we should go because it's we need the air conditioning i'm about to pass out. It's getting hot in here. Your new book is called Bucky Fucking Dent. Yeah. It's out already, right? No, April 5th. April 5th.

Opening day. Opening day. Smart. Are you doing publicity for it? I will. I'll do the usual radio. I'll do some talk shows, some radio. Nothing up at Fenway.

I'd like to do something at Fenway eventually, but nothing planned there. Be careful at Fenway. Yeah? Well, just Bucky Dent. It's still a sore subject. Really? You guys are bad winners. Yeah. Yes. We've won like nine titles in the last 14 years.

There's some standing legends. Really? Well, I chart the progression of the comeback. Is this book going to hurt my feelings? No. I think it'll make you cry i think it might make you cry that won't be hard this subject usually but it's not really a baseball book but i think it's it's fathers and sons and it's uh it's really a love story it's it baseball is just used as a backdrop it's not it's not about baseball what's your favorite baseball movie ever? Field of Dreams, I guess.

That's too obvious. It's a great one. What's yours? I don't know. I battle on this. Bulldozer? I watched The Natural the other day, even though Redford's about 12 years too old

to be in the movie. Yeah. And it's got some great scenes. I love when he comes back for the last game and the guy the movie. Yeah. And it's got some great scenes. I love when he comes back for the last game and the guy's shaving. Yeah. And Redford comes in and he's like, my dad wanted me to be a baseball player.

And the guy turns around and he's like, we are the best damn one I ever saw. Best hitter I ever seen. Suit up. I'm always like, if I'm near that part, I'm going to wait until we get to that part of the movie. Do you do that with Cable? Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm 15 minutes from this scene. I'm going to wait until we get to that part of the movie. Do you do that with cable? Yeah.

It's like, oh, I'm 15 minutes from the scene. I'm going to wait it out. I always go to the casino. Yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of them. I always got to see Pesci get it in the sandpit. Field of Dreams I saw in college and just bought it hook, line, and sinker. But now that I'm a more cynical person,

there's that one part of me, like, all right, come on. Bull Durham? No, Field of Dreams. How about Bull Durham? You like it? Yeah. It might be a rom-com, though. It is a rom-com.

Yeah. That's why it can't be the best baseball movie. Well, what else? I also think For Love of the Game is underrated. If you took out all the rom-com scenes and just made it the baseball movie, it's awesome. I'm not sure I ever sat with that enough. Oh, you should sit with that one. Some good costume.

That could be like Thomas Jefferson's Bible, where he edited out only jesus's words you could you could have like your version of for the love of the game where you i've always been pushing for this where you edit out all is it renee russo no kelly preston kelly it's a lot of kelly preston yeah so you can make your own version it was like they're like it'll be a baseball movie for the guys and then we'll have this thing for the woman and they'll both like it. It was like that kind of thinking. And it's like, no, it's a baseball movie. What about the old time?

Fear Strikes Out? No, too far back. I think the oldest. Too weird. The farthest. Yeah, too weird too. The furthest I'd go back is the Bad News. But you must be a big Jimmy Pearsall guy.

I mean, that's an interesting story. He's a maniac. Yeah. Bad News Bears and Breaking Training is probably the furthest I'd go back. You like that movie, right? You know that movie? Is that the sequel to Bad News Bears? It's the sequel.

And they're like about 14 years old now. But the guy who plays Kelly Leak is like 30. And they have to steal a van to drive from California to Houston to play in the Astrodome. So Kelly Leak, they steal a van and Kelly Leak drives the van from California to Houston. And chicanery ensues. It's good. And then they play in the Astrodome. Be No Long's Traveling All-Stars.

Another great one. A lot of famous people in that one. Richard Pryor. See, that's a movie you could remake every 20 years just with different with a different young cast hate to plug myself but did you ever see the baseball episode of the x-files that i did no you need to see that you might really it's called the unnatural the is it really yeah yeah are you making this up no did you play baseball in it there's a famously rom-comish scene at the end where i teach scully how to hit oh like a sexual attention sports kind of well i

say things like hips before hands and you know nice piece of ash you got there that's a nice ash things like that tv TV. TV. TV. Network TV. Baseball, sexual. Network TV flirting. Yeah, exactly. David Duchovny, a pleasure as always.

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