The Bill Simmons Podcast - Fantasy Football Palooza With Matthew Berry | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 398)

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN fantasy football guru Matthew Berry to talk about their fantasy origins, the rise of fantasy sports, to PPR or not to PPR, snake drafts vs. auctions, and what a game-changer daily fantasy is. Then Matthew shares some strategies for this year's draft as well as some thoughts on the upcoming fantasy football season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's early August. We're just starting to get ready to talk about football. That's why Matthew Berry is here. And Kevin Clark and Robert Mays are on the road right now writing about the NFL. So check that out. You guys do a great job. Thank you.

Coming up, my old friend Matthew Barry. First Pro Gym. All right. Matthew Barry is here. I haven't seen him in like three years. Yep. He is ESPN's, I haven't seen him in like three years. Yep. He is ESPN's, I don't know. What's your title now? Senior Fantasy Analyst.

That's so boring. What should it be? You used to be the Talented Mr. Roto. Yeah, but that's not a title. It's just a, it's a made up nickname. I've known him since. You used to be the sports guy. I know. Should we go with old school nicknames?

That's true. Sports guys here, Talented Mr. Roto. Yeah. I've known you since 06. We peaked together. You used to come on my podcast every year. We used to do fantasy before the season. Right.

But more importantly, on September 2nd, 2010, we did the Watershed 90210 BS Report where we just went through the entire history of the show. Was it two parts? It was two parts. It was two parts. It was a four hour podcast.

We did two parts, two hours each. We did like sort of awards. We talked, I mean, it's a 10 year show and you and I are both passionate fans of it. Uh, two white guys talking 90210.

Who doesn't love that? Two white 40 year old guys talking about a teenage drama that was, you know, whatever, 20 years old at the time. We knew our audience. And, um,

I believe, cause I remember you talking to me about this and some of the podcast people at espn told me about it that was the most downloaded and listened to podcast episode in the history of espn until you interviewed obama that was true yes it was the most because your podcast was number one and it was the number one it was the most listened to there weren't a lot of podcasts back then I remember you were all excited when you got a podcast and you were like asking me

so what happened I wanted advice so I had had my podcast at that point since spring of 07 so it was about 3 and a half years in and we still didn't really have ads for it I think they had Subway as the lead sponsor and it was just one of those things where I just can't And we still didn't really have ads for it. I think they had Subway as the lead sponsor.

And it was just one of those things where I just can't, I would just do whatever I wanted to do. And there were no repercussions. I never cared how long it was. And it was like, I'm just going to do 90210 today. Right. Well, I remember you and I had talked about it like on previous podcasts. We talked about it just as friends. We did a fishing line out for it.

Right, right. And then we both got like tweets and emails and stuff saying like, you've got to do it. You've got to do it. previous podcast we talked about it just oh that's right we did a fishing line out right right and then and then we both we both got like tweets and emails and stuff saying like you've got to do it you've got to do it i think we jokingly said we should do this well you emailed you emailed me like a month before and said i just realized like september september 2nd 2010 will be 9 slash 02 slash 10 yeah so uh once in a uh, we have to do it. Right. Yeah, exactly. Although I think, uh, I think, you know, the 10 year anniversary is coming up. We're two years away from the 10 year anniversary of that podcast. I think we should do a 10 year reunion of that.

I haven't seen that show in so long. The, the, the podcast I was most excited about just in retrospect all these years later that one i remember close to when i did this long jfk assassination yeah breakdown those are the ones i might have to like make a trade with connor and get the rights to like 10 of these podcasts because the 90210 one was epic i can still remember the show yeah you remembered like 90% of it you stumbled like three times right you would get a couple like right there were one or two yeah you got like a fire episode confused with the forest fire and like very little tiny stuff yeah what was you know listen it was just like wait did emily valentine do that or was that or was that a kelly on coke episode it was it was a

little bit um you had 10 seasons, but yeah. I still get comments on that episode every once in a while. People will still bring that up. And when we were tweeting about it, when you and I were tweeting about it like a month ago, like tons and tons of comments from people about it. I think it's still on YouTube, or at least one of them is. It's still on the internet. Yeah, somewhere.

I remember a lot of people don't know before part two, you and I did cocaine to understand what it was like with Kelly Taylor. Exactly. We did some bumps and then we kept going. Right, exactly. Well, I used to play a drinking game with 90210. You know, when Dylan drank, you drank with a man. Yeah, you had to. Absolutely.

Supporting him. So me and my college buddies would watch it when we were in college. But yes, I think we should do that. Here, this will be my request. I believe you and I should do a very special episode of the rewatchables on the 10-year episode. We can do the recapables. The recapables, there you go.

Julie and I, Dave, we were talking about the 100 best TV episodes because we did a whole thing about it last week and what the height of 90210 was, which I feel like was when Dylan was drinking, but we could save that for two years from now. You and I have known each other since 06. Yep.

It's really funny. ESPN was such a weird place in the 2000s. They were very scared of things that are so basic now. Right. Like gambling. They wouldn't let me write a gambling column that first year. And even like mentioning the Lions

was a big fight for me until 2004 and then fantasy at the time they really didn't have it at all they had a couple things i remember the first there was a perception in there at least when i got there and so this may have been before i showed up so maybe this is what you're talking about i'm talking like 0102 yeah yeah before i got there i remember i did like top, I'm going to say in 01, I wrote like a top, my top 50 in fantasy. Right. And I remember talking to my editors about that.

And I was just like, I'm doing this fantasy. And then they were like, oh, okay. Like they were a little confused that that was going to be a whole column. And then five years later, you came in,

we were doing this fantasy football show. You were writing on the website too, right? Yeah. No, I wasn't writing for ESPN. You weren't writing for- I had my own website and I'd done a couple of different things. I'd done some small things like I was doing a weekly fantasy segment on cold pizza. Oh, that's right.

Cold pizza. I was doing- We all did a tour of duty on cold pizza. Right. Yeah. Well, my very first thing on cold pizza was actually a fantasy baseball thing where they were like, hey, we have this reporter that we like and we want to get him some TV reps. And so we have this idea to do like a fantasy reality thing.

Like he'll come on and he'll give you like a news thing. And then you give the fantasy version of that. His name is Buster Olney. Yeah. So like Buster and only Buster and I sort of started on TV together. The same time gives you how long ago that was. And so that was cold pizza. And I was doing some stuff here at ESPN Radio in LA

with Mason in Ireland. And I was doing like some hits on ESPN News. And I think I was writing for ESPN Magazine. You were making money in the site. Yes. Yeah. And my Townsend Mr. Roto site was doing real well. So I remember they had this list of,

so we're doing this fantasy show. Jamie Horowitz was running it. And ESPN had never really done a show. And for some reason decided to do it out of New York City. Right. And blow it up and make it this big production, which now in retrospect seems ludicrous. You had Bristol, Connecticut, and there's no reason fantasy has to be in New York. Right.

My buddy Rob Stone was the host. Yep. We got, what was her name? Danny from Survivor. Danny Boatwright. But we needed the fantasy person. And I remember- And Jaws, Ron Jaws.

Jaws was on it. Jaws was the X's and O's guy. And we had this list of fantasy people. And I remember seeing the talented Mr. Roto and being like, great name. Really appreciate that dude's name. And then it kind of snowballed. You were clearly the best guy.

Oh, I appreciate that. Well, I remember coming into a, so I came into this meeting and they, cause I'd sent them this tape of, you know, various things that I'd done, like the cold pizza and the ESPN news stuff and everything like that. But they're like, we want you to meet, you know,

the producers and everything like that. So I go in and I meet like, so yeah, Jamie and a lot of, there were a lot of producers. There was a production company as well. And you were in there. So it was like 12 people. Was it a meeting here in LA? For some reason we outsourced it to a production company as well, and you were in there. So it was like 12 people. Was it a meeting here in LA? For some reason, we outsourced it to a production company,

which was also ludicrous. There's a lot of mistakes made. Yes. And by the way, the show was once a week at like 3.30, and the idea that now ESPN could do it. What day was it? It was like Thursdays at 3.30. So it was like, and this is like-

Which is also stupid, because ad drops are already done by then. Right, ad drops are already done and they didn't really have the thursday night game back then yeah so it was just like um yeah i guess maybe on espn like shows that happen once a week don't work unless they're tied to a live event like sunday nfl countdown or fantasy football now or monday night countdown or college game day or whatever so it, so it was just kind of this, this random three 30 in the afternoon ESPN to show. Um, but yeah, but anyway, so I walked into, uh, to a room with like 12 people and I immediately, I, you know, I'd read you for years, so I immediately recognized you. And, uh, so that was weird. And so whatever, we had a, we had a conversation and I found out later,

and I've written about this before, but I found later uh from other people that you behind the scenes were like Matthew's the guy you gotta hire Matthew Matthew's the guy so I don't really remember who the competition was I know some of the names I don't want to like but um you were to me you were clearly the guy well I appreciate that but what's funny is that show should have worked and the reason they stopped doing it the rating first of all there was a big internal war about whether we should do fantasy or not and me it was John Walsh

who had a lot of power back then who loved fantasy and was in all these leagues and we would always be like how do we not have a fantasy show yeah

how is fantasy not on television on ESPN and people are like no no that's it's an internet thing get the hell out of here no way

it's an internet thing and they were they were so dismissive and fucking catty about it and People are like, no, no, that's, it's Dungeons and Dragons. Get the hell out of here. No way. It's an internet thing. Yeah. And they were, they were so dismissive and fucking catty about it. And, and so we, we really fought for the show and then it failed. Yes. And then it was like, ah, the old man's wrong again. It was like one of those things like we're not wrong. All these people are playing fantasy football. You guys are crazy.

We just shouldn't have done the show in New York. Do it in Bristol. Yeah. The show actually ended up doing it. I think we did the, the show was done in just shouldn't have done the show in New York. Do it in Bristol. Yeah. The show actually ended up doing it. I think we did the, the show was done in Bristol, but the pilot was done

in New York. But it was, the problem was. Everything was done in Bristol? The show was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I flew to Bristol every third. I was still living in LA.

No, I thought the first, the first like six, seven weeks, we had this crazy studio in New York. You're remembering this wrong. That's entirely possible. We moved the show toistol that we did it for like eight nine weeks in this really fancy new york studio that was the reason i had to move it was super expensive

oh okay you might be right you might be right i think we fired the production company you just blocked it out of your mind that's entirely possible if we fired the production company and moved it to bristol um that part i remember um my part i remember the the production company and moved it to Bristol. That part I remember. I remember the production company leaving, but I just remember, because I was living in LA at the time, so I was literally doing a cross country flight once a week, both ways for a half hour television show. One of the things I liked about you at the time

where you were completely, completely sure, and I was too, just because I had had success with it, with writing about it. You were completely sure there was a place for like a Mel Kiper of fantasy. You're like, this is a territory that is wide open. I can be this person. I will do anything it takes.

And I'm going to plant my flag before anyone else. Well, yeah. I mean, it's interesting. So in 2004, I had started this website called Rotopass and I was talking to a friend of mine who was one of the guys that founded stamps.com actually. And he was a buddy of mine and I was talking to him and like, this is 2004

and I know nothing about the internet, right? And, but this guy found it, you know, he's one of the co-founders of stamps.com. So he's like my internet genius buddy. And so I remember talking to him about like, I'm like, I you know help me promote my talents mr roto website what do i do and i and uh he's just like oh well um so we talked like seo and you know you know tags and you know meta tags and everything like that but uh then he just said like he's like well why don't you get somebody to endorse it i'm like what do you mean he's like get an athlete to endorse it

and i'm like first off i can't afford a real athlete yeah and then i said and and and everyone knows that at that time like athletes hated fantasy they thought it was super nerdy and they didn't like it i said so in terms of my hated that people would bring it up to them too 100 so it was gonna be like it's gonna be like hey for roto pass i'm fp santangelo like that's what i'm gonna be able to get right you know so um and then he says like well why don't you get the guy and i'm like what do you mean the guy and i says well who's he's like if this he's like i don't play fantasy sports but a fantasy sports is as big as you say it is um there's got to be a guy there's who's the person that when you think about fantasy sports is the

most that everyone thinks of like who's that person and i'm like no one really there's a couple of there's a couple of people that you know that I respect that have been doing it for a while. Eric Carabelle had been at ESPN, a guy named Ron Chandler, who did a website called Baseball HQ. And, and so I said, but I don't know that there's anyone that's sort of ubiquitous, you know, and everything like that. And he goes, well, if this thing is as popular and as big as you say it is, someone eventually will be, somebody will be that guy. He says, you should try to make it you. And I'm like me. And he goes, well, he's like, how long have you been playing? I said, since I was 14 years old. He's like, how long have you been writing about it professionally? I said, since 1999. He's like, I mean, he's like, I don't

know what the credibility or, you know, the credits you need to do this, but it sounds like you've done it. It turns out you needed no credibility at all. Yeah, exactly. Well, I'd been doing it professionally for a long time at that point. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I turned Talented Mr. Roto into a website, frankly, all about me. So in everything I did from that point forward was to, to try to get to that goal. Yeah. I mean, it was a very specific, you know, I've been very candid about that, trying to make myself a personality and try to, you know, entirely because I thought, could I get big enough, quote unquote, big enough where I could just promote my site where people cared enough that they wanted to buy this website. We've talked about this before, but I'm, I'm retreading the

ground. My bit, my fantasy goes back to 82, might even be 81, but definitely 82 baseball draft. My dad's friends batting average plus homers. Wow. That's it? That was it. And I still have the homework from one of those years. And it's like, you know, Robin Yount, 310 plus 18, 328, you know, and then you couldn't make trades during, if you'd made a trade during the year, you just got the guy for the whole year. It wasn't like the added up stats. So that was that basketball, 1985, we started, we did the one of the Larry Bird leagues. Football, it wasn't like the added up stats. So that was that. Basketball, 1985, we started, we did the one of the Larry Bird leagues. Football,

it wasn't until about 90. But when I had, when I, when I launched my old site in 97, one of the things was like, well, I don't have a place to read about fantasy. I don't,

nobody writes about wrestling. Nobody writes, all these things that me and my friends talked about weren't on the internet. I was at the Herald. I was pitching them a fantasy column and a wrestling column and all these different, and they were like, what?

No, go away. And by 2001, by the time, I remember I'd done some fantasy, some running diaries of fantasy drafts. Right. Including one that, in 98, like a bachelor party. And it just felt like people liked them. And I never understood why fantasy wasn't accepted

in the sports writing world. Never made sense. Yeah, I mean, it was one of those things that I think people just, you had people in positions of power and I'm just talking about the industry in general, not in one specific company, but where people,

there were people in positions of power that were just sort of, you know, whether they were older or not, you know, really in tune with, it's a little bit like and so i think at this point it's like how we feel about bitcoin right now right right i'm sure what's that or or by the way how we felt how people felt about esports five years ago we're like wait you're people are going to watch other people play video games or how i feel about esports

three minutes ago what do you tell it to barclays what i i have a 13 year old who does one of two things plays fortnight or watches other people play fortnight oh that's my 10 year old yeah i mean literally all he does yeah um it's better i guess than killing someone right in real life yeah that is true if you're if you're balancing it out yeah it's great um but anyway so well i wrote about this in my book where i mentioned i gave you credit because when I was there and just sort of like in 99 or whatever. And I've been playing since I was 84, by the way, $37 on Mario Soto. That was my very first. Wow.

That was my very first bid ever in a fantasy baseball draft. He did not return $37 worth of value. No, I can imagine. I'm impressed you were doing an auction back then. We were doing an auction. We always did snake draft forever. I had read the original Rotisserie League baseball book.

Yeah. You know, by Dan Okrent and Glenn Wagoner and everything like that. And I found there were a bunch of people in Colestation, Texas. Like there were these 25 to 30 year old guys that were going to start a league. One of whom was my tennis coach.

And I was 14 years old. I was a freshman in high school and I walked up to a lesson one day. I used to take lessons. I was actually doing some tennis there for a minute. And I said, wait, are you guys talking about rotisserie league baseball? And they're like, you've heard of it. And I'm like, you guys have heard about it. And like, we'd all read this book. And like, I think we've all been there, especially for people that have been playing fantasy for a long time, where you just, you need one person for it to lead, to finish the league. Like you just need

one, any person, you just need like a warm body. And so that year, like all these adults were like, we need one person to do a 10 team and I'll only, uh, you know, fantasy baseball league. And so they asked me to be in the league. So that was my very first league in 1984. And that league still goes today, 34 years later or whatever. And the only league from the eighties that still exists in my life is my dad is still in the basketball league. And they added some. Do you play with him? Do you, I mean, or do you help him or like he's on his own?

Cause it's a Massachusetts. I don't want to like FaceTime in, but he still does that. And for some reason it always starts two weeks after the season, which drives me crazy. And then it's like, yeah, I got Victor Oladipo in the second round. It's like, he's in the 20th round if you do the draft three weeks ago. But I think like Nephew Kyle, big fantasy fan,

he's just grown up with it. It's probably weird for him to even hear that it was taboo. I mean, it wasn't quite Handmaid's Tale or anything, but it was like, it definitely was like over here in the corner. Well, what I was getting to is I remember that. I remember when, when back in those old days or whatever, like in the late nineties, early

two thousands. And it was sort of, it was thought of as, you know, a new version of Dungeons and Dragons. And it was this nerdy thing and athletes hated it and the leagues hated it. And they weren't sure it was going to ruin sports. It's going to ruin sports. And, oh, you root for players and not teams and, you know, all the, all the things that it's, it's nerds and it's nerds in their basement, you know, and live with their mom, blah, blah, blah.

And I just remember, and like I said, I put this in my book. I remember you being the first national columnist personality, you know, person to ever talk about fantasy and talk about it in a, in a, in a positive way. Like you writing those columns and being like, oh yeah, I play fantasy and I'm in the league of dorks. And all the different things you were talking about was like, you know, like I remember thinking like, oh my God, we've got somebody we've, we've got, we got one. Right. I remember in 2001, I wrote a piece about, I think it was called like how to insult people at your fantasy draft, which is super dated now. If you read it, it's all these like witty insults and things, but it was called like how to insult people at your fantasy draft, which is super dated now.

It's all these like witty insults and things, but it was stuff we did. I think the biggest bummer of the 21st century is the fantasy draft has just become not that fun. It's like, everybody's prepared. There's no, everyone has the same sleepers. There's no,

there's nobody in the table. Who's just a disaster. Right. Picking, you know, the guy that's out for the same sleepers. There's no, there's nobody in the table who's just a disaster. Right. Picking, you know, the guy that's out for the year. Like, yeah, that's picking Hunter Henry this year or spending $48 on Jameis Winston. But those guys always end up finishing like second or third. Right. People, it was always our friend camp and in my football league.

If you would do a, if the most annoying thing ever was like when you would do an auction and like, you've done all your prep and you've got like deep, deep sleepers, you know what I mean? Like that. And so you'd, you'd, you'd throw out a guy and then there'd be like one or two people like, Ooh, you know, like, ah, I can't believe I don't have enough money. And then there's the guy down at the end who has no idea who that even is, but here's a couple other people going to, uh, to three, you know, and has no concept of anything,

but like just outbids you for well that's why i stopped playing fantasy basketball and and you have this problem too when people feel like you have the most insight slash information and you're just sitting there and you're in like in a basketball thing and somebody's like old depot 13 and i go i'll go 14 and then somebody's like oh someone's like some 15 yeah you're right and it's like, Oh, Simmons likes him 15. And that's like, fuck, I'm just paying 28% higher for everybody. I walk into a draft and I have yet to walk into a draft where there wasn't at least one person that was sitting there with my rankings,

whether they believe them or not. Right. I mean, like, like they literally put it out there just to know, just so you know, I know exactly who you like and where you rank them. And I'm going to, you know, I'm either going to try to, uh, to screw you over or, you know, or they, or you like and where you rank them. And I'm going to, you know, I'm either going to try to screw you over or, you know, or they like my rankings either way. But yeah, I mean, that's always a... We could take a break, but I have a confession about my rankings when we used to do this podcast. But first, I'm going to keep you on for this. All right.

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my friends in my football league would listen to it. Okay. And they would know everybody I liked. Right. I realized that one year, and then for the next couple of times, I would intentionally either neg two players that I actually liked with you,

or give two people that I really liked that I didn't like that much. It turned into this high-stakes poker match where I was trying to throw people off my own scent, which is so fucking stupid. I haven't won since 2006 in the league with Sal. Although, you know, I had the greatest fantasy team of all time that year. You remember your greatest fantasy team of all time, right? Yeah.

Some of them. Some of them. I've had a few. I had Tom Brady heard of him I had LT during his Watershed 06 year

probably the greatest fantasy book player ever oh no I'm sorry this was 07 not 06 Tom Brady and the 07 Pats right LT

last grade LT year yep Peterson is a rookie wow okay yeah Wes Welker yeah who everyone gave me shit for

and I ended up buying a Welker jersey and wearing it all season. But it was just one of those, that was the year I wrote whether it was possible to go undefeated with your fantasy team. Oh, I remember that.

We had that debate. Yeah, I really thought, and then you came on the pod and we argued about it, but that was my one great team. I still have it. It was like my 86 Celtics of fantasy. You don't have your one team?

Not one team. I mean, there are seasons and wins that I love. What was the highest stakes league you've been in that you can talk about publicly? I was in a $5,000 league, $5,000 a team league. And so I won that like three years ago. Do people bring you in because you're like the ringer and it's fun to beat

the ringer. Yes. There's definitely a, um, Hey, it would be, and I'm actually not fun in a fantasy league. I actually don't think I write,

I'm not fun in a fantasy league. I fully admit that. Um, you're not fun at the draft. You take it way too seriously. It's one of two things. I either take it way too seriously. I'm, of two things. I either take it way too seriously. I'm much more chill now than probably I was when we would draft because at that point,

I feel like I'm still trying to prove myself. Right. You're like, wait, you're ESPN's fantasy guy. You have to be the greatest fantasy player ever. You're like, well, no, like, I think I'm pretty good. But like, it was weird. You're like a bachelor porn star just trying to prove over and over again that you're the best at sex it was one of those things where i um the day before i'm just going to dodge

that one and move right on yeah i'm um i still work for disney uh so the day before uh you know the day before i got hired by espn and the day after i got hired by espn i was the same level of fantasy player whatever that is but the day i got hired and I was named ESPN senior fantasy analyst, everyone was like, well, you must be the greatest fantasy player ever. You know, you're like, and you're like, you're Jordan. I'm like, well, not like, you know, the same dumb stuff that I thought, you know, two days ago when I was doing my talents with Mr. Roto sites, it was weird. Just, you know, the power of those four letters. And so I think probably early on- You had a bunch of complexes.

Yes. You're a fantasy guy in a network that didn't believe in fantasy. Yes, at the time. You were on a TV show that didn't work initially and proved everybody's opinion of fantasy. That was wrong. And then eventually as you gain success,

they start trying to figure out, and actually i should say people who are younger who are moving up in a position to power who are used to fantasy are like we should have fantasy and now you're on sunday nfl countdown but you're treated like you know um yeah you're you're just kind of over here on the show yeah i'm a little bit i'm in the corner nobody's i'm baby nobody's telling you you're just kind of over here on the show. Yeah. I'm a little bit, I'm in the corner. I'm baby. Nobody's telling you you're like a pro wrestler and you're doing moves and people are just getting right up from the move.

They weren't sure what to, it was a, I mean, and you know, I want to be clear here that it wasn't the entire, I mean, there were, you mentioned John Walsh,

John Kozner as well was a, was a big supporter of fantasy, big supporter of mine. Skipper was a, Skipper was a supporter. Skipper was a supporter. Skipper was a supporter, no question about it. Having you on my side definitely helped. Chris Berman, giant fantasy

fan. Boomer has never been anything but gracious to me. He's not a fantasy player. He's not a fantasy fan. He's very open about that, but just person to person. He doesn't work there anymore. We can talk about it. He's like, who the fuck is this guy? I know. He was, I just have to say, Boomer was always great, very gracious with me. Person to person. He doesn't work there anymore. We can talk about it. He's like, who the fuck is this guy? I know. He was, I just have to say, Boomer was always great,

very gracious with me. Person to person. He does not like fantasy. He is, he's definitely been very clear about that. Dungeons and Dragons. He didn't like it. He didn't like it.

He sort of, his take was, and I understand it. His take was that basically that he felt like, I don't know that he's, he's completely wrong. And that was that basically that he felt like, I don't know that he's completely wrong, that just basically he didn't feel like the people that were tuning into Sunday NFL Countdown were there for fantasy information.

And I think that's right, actually. It's why we have fantasy football now on Sunday. The people that are interested in specifically fantasy football, help me with who's injured, who's in, tell me about my team. I actually think he's right. Yes. So that's what, and's in. I want to tell me about my team. I actually think he's right. Yes. So that's what,

and I think it probably got misconstrued a little bit somewhat, but that was always sort of, that's how he explained to me. When he kept telling you to get the fuck off his set? He never said that to me. Get off my set. He never said that to me.

Get him off. He never said that to me. Tell it to Mr. Roto by ass. Boomer, I, no, I, no. Boomer has been nothing but gracious to me throughout. No, but I think the right move was to, was to put it just like, if you want fantasy, here it is. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, he just, listen,

he never, he never bought in, but. No, I'm saying like putting fantasy on a different channel entirely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's over here. It's over here. We're going all in. I, you know, it's, so yeah, the issue was,

so there were, there were people internally at ESPN, but they didn't know. So there were people that felt like it was just an Internet play. And so. Right. But yeah, I mean, like whatever Skipper and Kozner and John and you and some of the other people internally at ESPN were definitely pro fantasy and also supportive of me because I was. And once they sort of got over the hump on fantasy, I'm of this weird guy in that like I'm not a you know you mentioned Mel Kiper um when I was hired that was one of the things they were talking hair right I definitely don't have the same but I'm not like I'm not just like Mr. Stats like I was I was somebody that you know I weaved pop

culture and I weaved my own life stories in I remember when I first showed up people were like and you and I talked about this privately but but people were like, oh, you just want to be Simmons. You're just trying to be Simmons. And I was just like, no, I mean, like we both, we're both about the same age. So we have some of the same pop culture references, but I never thought my writing style was similar to yours. And the only sense is, is that we're both somewhat conversational. But if I was threatened by you at that point, I just would have had you killed. Right. I had a lot of power back then. You certainly wouldn't have had me on your podcast

or promoted me and you promoted me. And I can say this, I mean, you wouldn't, but Bill also was, in addition to helping me publicly, you were also very gracious internally. You and I had some private conversations about navigating the place sometimes or that, and I know you would sometimes. I ended up getting fired,

so maybe it wasn't the best advice. Actually, I did get fired. My contract was not renewed. Right, there you go. But well, listen, you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens when I'm up. But but so far, so good. Well, your advice was at least good with me.

And the most important thing I ever did for you. Yeah. Other than fighting for you for that first show was Super Bowl 2008. Glendale, Arizona. Me and Skipper and Walsh were going to dinner and we had it. It was a table for four. And Walsh was like, who should we had it was a table for four and Walsh was like who should we invite and I'm like

we should invite Barry we talked fantasy the whole thing like talk about where fantasy is going it's a great idea so we invited you and it was like you had been called up to the majors yes you had a little deer in the headlights for like 20 minutes but then we were drinking wine you were set up but yeah that was like your call up

to the majors moment that was yeah it was I got to sit at the cool kids table. That was, that was pretty cool. That was a big moment. So thank you for that. It was fun though. It was great. We had a great night.

Walsh loved fantasy more than anyone I've ever met. He's the only person who really instill in 2018 thinks you want to hear about his team for 15 minutes, which I know is like probably the worst part of your job. A little bit. That's tough. But that's part of the like probably the worst part of your job. A little bit. That's tough. But that's part of the gig. That's part of the gig. Do you have two minutes?

I just want to tell you about my draft. Right. I get that. Yeah, that's a conversation. So I'm in the sixth round and I need a receiver. Joe Horn's sitting there. Right. I mean, that's my life.

That's the gig. That's part of the- That's the tax. That's part's the gig. That's part of the part of the tax. That's the that's the that's part of the gig. But I mean, listen, Walsh was actually part of the second. I mean, he was when he used to run Inside Sports, he published an article by I want to say by Dan Okrent. He did. That was the first one.

Yeah. The year George Foster was worth thirty six dollars. That was the name of the article. And so he read that article, which explained how Okrent had this, the rotisserie, the original rotisserie league, baseball, a rotisserie baseball league, you know, with Okrent and Glenn Wagner and the founding fathers, if you will. And, um, he read that article and he immediately started a league. So Walsh, and I believe that league still goes today. Walsh is in the second ever fantasy baseball league in the, the history of it. So, was i mean walsh was a um was it was a big supporter is still you know somebody i still go to for advice um uh oh he

has advice yeah he's available yeah he's ready uh he's ready to give advice so uh yeah he's listening right now he's got pins and needles he is not heh. He's listening right now. He's got pins and needles. He is not. He's 100% listening right now. He's absolutely not. He's sitting in. I'm sitting in his stem. He's listening. Okay, there you go. He's like a proud papa right now.

So he is a. He really was the only executive for eight years who was like, we should have fantasy football. And everybody else thought he was a lunatic. 100%. He fought so hard for fantasy and for the inclusion of fantasy. And so it took a long time. It sounds like we're talking about like women's rights or something. fantasy and for the inclusion of fantasy. And so it took a, it took a long time. It sounds like we're talking about like women's rights or something.

I know, it's stupid fantasy football. The crusaders. That's right. Thank God. Oh man. So much hard work. We won that battle to get fake football on a, on a cable network. But, but yeah, so they didn't know what to sort of do with me just because I wasn't like that typical, you know,

typical just all stats and everything like that. Well, you weren't an athlete either. You weren't an athlete and you weren't a reporter, which is the two types of people they put on television. Right. So it was definitely a struggle there to navigate the place. I knew you made it. I don't remember what year it was, but I know I was still there.

When all of a sudden one year you're like, I'm done with all the other sports. I'm just football now. I was like, wow, what a mic drop by Barry. He's just going to do football. He's just going to ignore baseball and basketball. He's out. But in your defense, it's impossible to do all three of those. To do them all well.

The internet got well the internet got the bar got higher and higher with information you can't be wrong ever and it just becomes a 24-7 job plus basketball is the most disappointing we've just never figured out fantasy basketball I've written columns about this

we've never figured out a successful model that goes from game 1 to game 82 that I've been happy with I think part of the I think daily has actually helped. Daily's helped a ton. Yeah. I think part of the problem candidly is when the season starts. I think the season's too long for fantasy 82 games.

And I think it's starting in, you know, starting in the middle of fantasy football season. But I will tell you that at ESPN, we have more people playing fantasy basketball with us than fantasy baseball. It's our second most popular fantasy sport now. Really? Oh, yeah. I mean, listen, by the way, obviously, I mean, the NBA is I think it goes in popularity with the sport as well. The NBA is an ascendant league. Obviously, the ratings are huge on ESPN. Like it's obviously a very important partner to us. So we're promoting it a lot. Yeah, we... After fantasy football, fantasy basketball is our second biggest.

I'm surprised. I'm always unhappy with how a season goes. I'll never forget when David Robinson got hurt with two games to go in the midnight. Well, that's why, listen, if you're still hanging on to fucking David Robinson, then that's... The Spurs were just sitting him the last two games. Something happened. Oh, my God. He came back

for six games. Oh, no, that was a different year. I was talking about the year before they got something happened. Oh my God. He came back for six games. Oh no, that was a different year. I'm talking about the year before. I was talking about the year before they got Tim Duncan. Oh yeah. No, there was a year

where David Robinson just kind of, he sat down the stretch or maybe it was Hakeem. It was one of those guys from the nineties. I'm like, this is so stupid.

Why do we do this to ourselves? I wonder if there's a way to, I think the great unknown frontier that we've never figured out with fantasy is how to incorporate the playoffs with the regular season, which is something my East coast fantasy league, which I finally dropped out of a year ago, we made the top four teams made the playoffs.

And then you got to basically redraft and add people. And it was good. It was a good way to do it. It added a little fun to the, added a little spice. I like it as a, as a secondary thing to keep the league together and have action during the playoffs.

I don't like it. You and I have talked about this before. I don't like it as a continuation of the regular season. Like, I think you should be able to win a championship

in the regular season. We would have prizes for the regular, but the thing is now with the playoffs, Daily Fantasy. Yeah. I think that the regular, but the thing is now at the playoffs, daily fantasy. Yeah. I think that the most fun thing about daily fantasy is those first two

playoff rounds. I love, I love doing those fantasy games. And then the divisional playoffs are like the two best weekends in sports. So you think daily fantasy pretty much a hundred percent of positive here with fantasy. Yeah. Look,

it's changed the context a little bit where it's not big picture anymore. It's like more micro focus, but yeah, I think it's a positive. I think it's a hundred percent of positive and it's brought new people to the space. It certainly brought a lot of money and attention to the space. I mean, listen, did, did DraftKings and FanDuel make some missteps on the way? A hundred percent. But, you know, listen, human beings are running those companies. And, and, you know, the thing I always say about DraftKings, um, like, and I know those guys is like, people forget it was, it was started by three guys from like, I think Vistaprint. So

in the middle of 2012, three guys from Vistaprint were sitting around a table and saying like, Hey, we should start a daily fantasy sports company. And three years later, they're on the cover of magazines, you know, worth a billion dollars. And it's like, like Zuckerberg had, had missteps on the way with, with Facebook. Like, I mean, like, I just don't think people understand like how, what a rocket ship ride that is. And so, you know, going from like, Hey, I have an idea to all of a sudden you're worth a billion dollars in the course of like three years. You're obviously going to make some mistakes. Their big mistake was all the advertising spending they did, which turned people off.

They did the hedge fund thing. Yeah, it was just too ubiquitous. But anyway, I think ultimately, I think daily fantasy sports has been good for the industry, for the for the fantasy sports industry. And also the other thing is, is that I think with the advent of sports gambling. Yeah. Is this a question I get a lot is like, oh, well, is fantasy going to go away? Are you worried about your job? Are you going to try transition to gambling? And not at all.

It's like they go hand in hand. Well, not only that, but I'm like your question. Your question assumes that no one's been gambling up to this point. Right now. Oh, now all of a sudden now. Now, because's legal suddenly people yeah what's gambling yeah exactly i mean like everyone's been like so maybe there's some casual people that will start because now it's it'll be easier and there'll be apps and they can just sort of do it with one touch but i mean there's there's millions upon millions of people that gamble right now and obviously fantasy sports

is still insanely popular so i actually you'll remember, I don't think they're the same thing. You'll remember this because I think we talked to Kozner about it back in the day. I used to love a site called Small World, which I think was the sporting news. And then it became Small World, but it was basically- I know the guys that ran that site. Yeah, it was basically Daily Fantasy before Daily Fantasy.

My buddy Gus and I, we did it in the late nineties. We won, we had a team called Mr. Fuji and Mr. Saito. Okay, not bad. And we won in the 90s. Somewhere in the late 90s with the football team, but the whole goal of it was you picked your team, there were salaries. Right.

And then each week you could make moves. It was probably like two bucks a move or something like that. Yeah, it was two bucks a move and you had a salary cap and all that. And then eventually that went away and it became Small World, which I love for basketball. I remember, I'm going to say it was in the 2002 to four range. Same thing, salaries, create your team.

You have it. Then you have four moves. The mistake they made was you could just keep buying moves. So people could just basically splurge and, and yeah. And overpower everybody else. But the, the whole idea of taking salaries and trying to make a team has been there for like 20 plus years. Oh yeah.

Yeah. It's not, and it's weird that it took as long as it did for like DraftKings and FanDuel to put it together. Yeah. I mean, the salary cap format's been there forever. And I think,

yeah. No, but I mean like the salary cap where somebody's arbitrarily creating random salaries they're giving you a cap right yeah that format's i was just like i like the math of it like just trying to figure out what's the perfect team i could create just as a competitive person was like oh man i'll take this guy i'll put this guy in it's a super fun format yeah i mean basically the mean, basically the, the, the FanDuel guys, and those are the guys that sort of were the very first DFS company really in the, in the true sense of the

word. Um, and they, they noticed this, you know, um, uh, I'm trying to think of the word they, they noticed this exception in the PAPSA rule about, um, that games of skill. And so they took that salary cap format and basically the games you were describing, those existed for a long time, but it was in essence, you were playing against the house, if you will, if you want to, you know,

and so you're playing against small world or whatever. And so FanDuel was hence duel, FanDuel. That was the idea is that it was head to head. It was peer to peer. Yeah. So that was the, that was the quote,

big innovation that they made. And they took that there and then they, you know, and then the rest is history. I think it works took that there. And then they, you know, and then I think it's history. I think it works great for golf. A hundred percent house who knows more about golf than anybody I know has won me money. The last two majors.

And it's really funny. It really gets me into the majors. It's done huge for fantasy golf, a daily fantasy NASCAR too. It helps NASCAR NASCAR fan. There's daily DFS for NASascar oh yeah i always used to say i mean and you and i used to talk about it when we used to talk about like fantasy bachelor and stuff like that like i always say if there's a way for you to keep score at there's a way to

play a fantasy version of it yeah and so um i don't think it works as well with basketball because i think the basketball the salaries are so high and it's really just a crapshoot. You pick like Kyle Korver and it's like, oh, he hit seven threes today. And that guy won fantasy today because randomly Kyle Korver. Any sort of fantasy involves a little bit of luck. But no, there are. So you like it for basketball? I do like it for basketball.

I don't play. I only played in one season long fantasy basketball league this year. I don't like the day i think it's too random uh well i think if you if you if you i mean there are people that do crazy amounts of research that really sort of dial down into it and uh can look and say like oh well kyle corver corver's playing against a team that's bad in terms of three-point defense and right you know you're looking at the over under and it's high and and so and and they're playing a team that's on the second night of a back you you know, a back to back.

And screw those people. I don't want to wait that hard. That's why football is great because football. So, yeah, it's become it's not it's not that it's too hard or too random. It's Bill doesn't want to work too hard. I don't want to spend two hours trying to figure out what Kyle Corver's threes are. Well, then it may not be for you. No, but it is fun. It is fun. If like you just, you know, nephew kyle or whatever if you just look i understand sort of the issue with kind of quote unquote the sharks yeah but like it is very fun

if like you and house like just you know hey let's put five bucks on this and let's just well i do i only do single entry that's it right yeah and i think single entry has been pretty reliable because i think one of the biggest problems there and i I got really frustrated. I even tweeted about it once. It was just like, once all the information came out about people having these programs and just flooding the market and all that stuff,

it's like, well, they're gaming the system against us. But I think with single entry, it's mitigated some of that. Yes. And I'm genuinely excited for football. I did an ad for-

Like, I'll play privately with my friends, which I enjoy. Like, people that I'm not in leagues with,, which I enjoy. Like I just, whatever, like people that I'm not in leagues with, but who I like, you know what I mean?

Like you and I aren't in a league together, but I could see like, hey Bill, let's you and I just, let's both do a lineup tonight for fun and just for fun.

Like whatever. Are you calling me out, Barry? I'm calling you out. I did an ad for FanDuel on Monday where they were talking about how they have preseason

fantasy football. And I was like, whoa, preseason fantasy football. Wow. This like, whoa, preseason fantasy football. Wow. This is really separating the men from the boys. Speaking of ads, please talk about why you love the all new Sonos Beam. Okay.

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Get your crap together. Sonos, S-O-N-O-S dot com. Check it out. Beam. We're getting to a world where you're not even going to need to touch anything. You'll just be able to say, you know, say whatever you want, and it will happen. When did you feel like you won with fantasy? Like, if we're talking about, like like this is like lost with jack versus lock

and people are in one camp people in the other camp where it was fun that like the people like us were like we win people like fantasy content f you oh that's a great question and i i felt like it was early last decade i mean i'm sorry early this So I'm going to say like the 10, 11, 12 range, somewhere in there. It definitely wasn't last decade. No, I mean, listen, I mean, there are moments, right? I mean, there are certain personal moments. It'd be hard to say like, I mean, because fantasy was always popular. Yeah, but the idea of somebody becoming like a Mel Kiper,

Wojnarowski type for fantasy was not conceivable 10 years ago. Yeah, no. Even as you were trying to do it, it didn't seem conceivable. I mean, again, there were people that were supportive of that idea, but yeah, it wasn't like a mainstream idea or something like that. Well, I'll tell you, there were a couple of, a couple of, a couple of personal moments, right? So, yeah, I mean, I would agree sort of there. I mean, listen, when fantasy football now,

which started as an internet show in 2008, we were on ESPN.com. When they put that on television the first year, which I want to say that it was either 09 or 10, 2010, where literally John Skipper came by on a Sunday and just like like we were we were all sitting in the we were waiting to go on. And we were like sitting in the cafeteria, something like that. And he just sort of looked up and he looked up at the screen and that we had like the Westminster dog show or something on ESPN, too. It's like, why aren't you guys on TV? Like and like literally like he's just like this is the dumbest

thing ever like you know what i mean like he just and like it was just boom and then we were on we were on espn2 like the next year or something like that or um fairly soon after that so you know just getting a tv show getting you know getting a a television a fan a weekly fantasy football tv show so that was big and the show winning an Emmy. What about your fist fight with Berman? That was a seminal moment. Who won? I never heard who won.

You will not get me to say anything bad about Chris Berman. No, he's a good guy. He, I mean, and I have to tell you, like, he, he, he pulled me. I love that Berman makes you so uncomfortable. Well, I'm trying to think I forgot how much fun it was to rattle you on podcasts it's been 3-4 years

you're so rattleable a little bit well I will say listen it took a couple extra emails to ESPN PR to get this particular podcast appearance approved they can settle down there's a couple of personal stories that I have with Boomer i'm just trying to like there's a

couple of personal stories that i have with boomer and i'm trying to uh sort of decide which one to tell um very early on in my career i went to him and said can i have some advice about being on tv and instead of saying shut up kid or i don't care about fantasy he spent like about 45 minutes and just talked to me about about being on tv which i'd never been on before really and i thought what was his best tip his his his his best tip was and it's sort of funny and this sort of makes sense was just like he um his best tip was like once it happens it happens he's like you can't beat yourself up if you like you make a mistake or you stumble or anything like that you just have to so keep plowing along just keep plowing along and talk as if you are talking to somebody else don't pretend it's a camera you know pretend the

camera is a is just one other person you're not broadcasting to millions of people you're broadcasting to one person don't don't think of it like oh i'm on tv and a million people are watching right it's like because a million people aren't watching in front of one screen you're talking to one person and just like you know and so he just sort of talked about that and then it was a lot of like mechanics in terms of like like where the red light is and and reading a rundown and stuff like that you know just whatever and boring tv stuff but um but he was listen he um how long did it take for you to get comfortable on tv i mean am i there i don't even know if i'm there yet uh it took a while it took it took a while i would say i would say three or four years

i remember emailing you somewhere in the last five years being hey man you look comfortable yes yeah you know you sent me a very sweet note saying like i think maybe the first show of the the fantasy it might have been even last year you were just like you've come so far or maybe it was a 10 000 hours candidate yeah you you you were smart how you handed it because you did everything. The no request was turned down by you. You really want me on this three o'clock in the morning and ESPN news. I'm there. Yeah. Well, fantasy was cause just anything to get, uh, to get, to get fantasy on. And I remember when things started going, I knew things were going well for you because I asked you to my podcast one year and you were like, normally it would have been like, what time on there?

Sure. And you were like, uh, August 18th. I'm free from nine to 1230. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Once they, once they, uh, once, uh, everyone at ESPN saw the light, you know, they certainly, uh, they certainly keep me busy. Certainly during August and no, me busy, certainly during August. No, which is awesome.

I mean, but what was I going to say? So Fantasy Life, my book, that was a big moment. You don't have to plug it anymore. It's available for a dollar. It's done. It's whatever. It's a dollar on Amazon or whatever.

But no, just in terms of sort of milestones. Yeah. Because like Hyperion, which is, you know, whatever, which is the Disney company was, did not want to, like, I offered it to them first and they passed on it. Well, they only like publishing books that people didn't want to read. Well, they, yeah, it was a weird business model. It didn't really work. I don't know. I don't necessarily know about that, but I

do know that their feedback was whoever my agent or my book agent talked to there was like, we don't think, we think his audience only cares about who to start and set. We don't think they'll buy a book about fantasy stories or his life or anything like that. We don't think his fan base is, is real. We think it's just, it's just people that are like that.

Anyone giving information, you know, that that's his audiences. They just want information. And we don't think anyone will buy his book and, uh buy a any fantasy book let alone let alone matthew so they passed on it so that book you know being in new york debuting on the new york comes best seller list spending a couple months on the list like that was a big moment for me where again it wasn't that was just sort of me right i mean you know like when you like that's without the power

of espn that's like that's just you're out there naked you know people it's it's not you literally naked that's how you promoted it exactly please buy this book or uh i can't afford clothes it was but i mean like you know you when you're i'm plunking down 30 bucks for something as opposed to clicking on a free article on the internet so um so that was that was a big moment and And honestly- Kyle's 24. Do you remember life without Matthew Barry? I don't think so. Yeah, there you go. There you go.

I don't think so. The young kids love me. No, it's like if you were like in the 10 to 13 range when you showed up and you played fantasy, you're in their life from that point on. That's pretty cool. Yeah, no, I mean, and I'm always amazed when I do an event or something like that, how many kids come, how many teenagers, how many college students. So that's always, that's always great. And my wife loves it too, because my wife, when we first

started dating, she didn't really know what I was doing. And she was just like, I don't know. She didn't, I mean, she didn't understand. She said I worked in IT or something like that. She's not a big sports person. And she, she was like, like i don't i don't know if i want to date somebody that's on tv yeah i don't know if i want to date a tv person and then she went with me to an event and you know it's it's like 99 dudes yeah it's like i'm good knock yourself out i'm i'm good so it's you know it's it's all uh it's all guys you met your wife at espn during the days when co-workers could ask each other out. That's correct. Way back when in the prehistoric era. Yeah.

Well, the dating policy. Kevin Wilds, too. Huh? Kevin Wilds, too. He married Libby. Yeah. There was no policy back then. There was not.

In fact, we were dating when that policy came out about interpersonal relationships. Yeah. So, I mean, my wife and I went to HR and we're like, we're in a relationship. This is what I do for the company. This is what my wife does for the company. It didn't really. You were in different departments. Oh, I mean, yeah.

Completely different departments. She had nothing to do with anything that I did. I mean, she worked in, for ESPN nerds that know, like she worked in North Campus. Like she didn't work in the main, I mean, she worked in North campus. Like she didn't work in the main, the main, I mean, she worked in a building way down, down the street, like a mile away. It's amazing how many people meet at work that now that there's this whole new

way to look at that. And, you know, there are all these restrictions in place, but a lot of my friends met who they ended up marrying at work. Period. I mean, this is kind of a tough course to go down, but it's just kind of strange who they ended up marrying at work. I would period. Yeah. I mean, this is kind of a tough course to go down, but it's just kind of strange to me that that it doesn't seem like that really happens anymore. No. And it's weird because, um, you know, it's interesting. So my wife and I, uh, so we met at a party, like a coworker, I had a Valentine's day party. Um, and the, the, the rule of the Valentine's Day party was that whether you are a couple or you are single, you had to bring your most eligible single friend. And so it was like a week before

Valentine's Day. And so the idea was like, you know, we're starting at eight o'clock and in when everyone has a Valentine or something like that. That's what the invitation said. And so a woman that I played softball with, like on a intramural ESPN intramural softball league came and brought Beth, my wife as her most eligible single friend. And so, uh, so we met there and, but we, we met and we had a, we had a great conversation, everything like that. And I said, can I have your number? And she said, uh, she goes, no, why don't you email me? Which, and honestly, I think if like I met her now, if that whole, like I wouldn't have emailed her. Nah. Right. I mean, so I emailed her. I said,

Hey, can we, um, you know, cause she was cautious about giving out her phone number, uh, back then. And so she, um, she still is, but whatever. Um, but anyway, so I emailed her and I said, Hey, can we go out on Saturday? And she was like, yeah, great. And you know, we're now, now you have the Brady bunch and we'd have the Brady bunch and five kids and the whole thing. But like, yeah, I mean,

it's, it's yeah. I don't know if I would have, would have done if I met her like last weekend. You're not allowed to date anyone at work. I know. I know. Yeah.

Don't get it. I didn't want to get too excited. I shouldn't even go to any more parties. I know. Fancy coming up in three weeks? Yeah. Three weeks? Before the week for Labor Day?

It should be like the week before Labor Day or the week that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before the kickoff game. But I'm also fine with it, by the way. People are like, I don't want to draft on Labor Day. I'm also fine with a draft that happens after the Thursday night opening game. That weekend.

It's one game. Whatever. So you know the stats and everyone has the same level of information. And if you want to reach for somebody because they have some huge game. Biggest, craziest thing, I think that's happened in 2018 compared when we started doing these together is most of the quarterbacks are the same. Quarterback is really, really deep. Brady.

I have Brady too. Yeah. Breeze is at seven this year. Eli Manning. Like about eight of the, no, but I mean, eight of the guys from probably the first podcast we did in 07, 08. Yeah, exactly. Are still around.

Are still starting quarterbacks. Oh yeah. And a lot of them are going to be, yeah, Philip Rivers, Roethlisberger. Yeah. It's quarterbacks don't go away. Tom Brady, 41. 41, unbelievable. Somebody's going to spend like, what, 18 bucks on him?

Yeah, depending on your budget. I mean, Ivan's my number two quarterback. Yeah. But the biggest thing that I think has changed since I've known you is the strategy of the draft now. People just load up on the running backs and figure they can get lucky with the QB later. And it becomes kind of this game of chicken with your QB.

And everybody knows there's five or six I'd be comfortable with. You'd think that would be the case. Although there are still people that draft quarterbacks early. There are still people that will draft a defense in the seventh round. If you look at ADP on ESPN. They're called losers. Yeah. They'll draft the Jaguars there. The Rams are going in the ninth round, which I wouldn't do.

And the Rams is my number two defense. I think they will have a great year. But we've done this. We've looked at this statistically. I did a column on ESPN.com called the Draft Day Manifesto. And we looked at it. And the last nine defenses that score at least 150 points over the last three years are nine separate defenses.

Like we've had no repeat. Not over the last three years, not one elite defense has repeated. Every defense has, every elite defense has scored 150 fantasy points in a season once. But when you think about the difference with like the number one defense and the number five defense

or the number one tight end number five. It's like 20, 25, 30, 35 points, something like that. It's not a lot. I mean, like the difference between Gronk and the number five tight end will be significant, but Gronk's not staying healthy all year. Right. That's the issue. Four years. I would at the tight end position this year, I actually prefer the bottom 10 than the top 10. So we, again, we looked at this. So the top three are Gronk, Travis Kelsey, and Zach Ertz. Those are for my three. And those, those are my top three. Over the last five years, less than 50%, I think it's like 46%, 46% of tight ends drafted as a top three tight end have finished the year as a top three tight end.

So you've got a less than 50% chance of returning value on a top tight end. And then you look at sort of the bottom tier. First off, Jordan Reed, listen, we actually had an intervention for myself on Jordan Reed on the, on the fantasy show. He can't stand the field. Huh? He can't stand the field. I know. But if you, but he's now he's going as like tight in 10. If you get Jordan Reed and pair him with Vernon Davis, that's a pretty good tight end look the Redskins have a very tight end friendly system Alex Smith obviously we you know what he did with Travis Kelsey 50% of Vernon Davis's career touchdowns were thrown by Alex Smith people forget they obviously played together for a number of years in San Francisco so like I like that like

Trey Burton who's a guy in Chicago who's going outside the top 10 I like him he's going to be the move tight end and Matt Nagy's offense in Chicago. Like him, Jack Doyle. Jack Doyle is a guy that I like. This is like a lot of tight end talk. Yeah. A lot of tight end talk. I didn't realize we were deep diving the tight end. Sure. Well, I'm just figuring people clicked on this and like, oh, good. Bill and Matthew doing their fantasy football preview. Let me get some players. And then it's like, it's 20 minutes. No, it was an hour. Yeah.

No, the tight end thing, one of my favorite ideas I ever had was merging the two people that aren't quite good enough on their own. Right. Doing the running backs and tight ends. It's a very polarizing idea. You take the running back by committee guys and you just merge them and rename them something else

and see what happens. I like- Tight ends Vernon Davis and- Jordan Reed. And Jordan Reed as a combo, merging them into like Verdor, Verdor and Reed, Reed Davis, Jordan Davis would be a good one.

I like, I like leagues where you play, where it's like team quarterback or team running back would be the best thing. It's really fun. Really fun. I played in the Grantland Bad Quarterback League, which was always fun. That was a really good idea.

It was hard to monitor, but there's still some way that that could, like a reverse DraftKings with bad football play would be a good one. There are some sites that do some version of that,

but I'd never seen the specific Bad Quarterback League that you guys did guys it was also a great year to do it there were a lot of bad quarterbacks in 2011 yeah i feel like we did it for two years we did yeah we did the second year and then jacoby dropped the mic and never did and that was it yeah i remember emailing jacoby because i remember like i think i'd like had geno smith like i had a good team yeah i had like i had like gen yeah, I had like when Gino Smith was starting, but being brutal. Uh, I remember I'm like, Hey, Jacoby, do you feel like everybody has the same tricks now with fantasy? People know like, Oh, Ricky running backs, big inefficiency

somewhat quarterback later. Well, you know, you were talking about the, the, you know, the, the problem is because everyone has the information, the challenge now it used to be, the challenge was trying to find that inside information and like, and I did cousin Sal's podcast the other day, and we were talking about how, you know, Sal used to call up sports editors and, you know, harass them at home and get their home numbers, right. You know, like super intense.

Yeah. Totally true story. And so that was, but now the issue isn't information. It's sorting through it because there's so much information and they're not to go quote fake news, but there is, there is a difference between real, real news and also just like best shape of his career, you know, primed for a breakout, like just, you know, kind of the coach speak and everyone looks great in the preseason. And, you know, so trying to kind of cipher through what's real and what's not.

Concussions have been a big game changer the last five years. I mean, for a lot of reasons. And fantasy is obviously the least of our worries with concussions, but it has changed it like a guy getting a concussion. And it's the first injury we've had with fantasy where you really have no idea when they're coming back. And if they get a second one, they're gone. And I just, it's a big anvil that's hanging over the league anyway, but you feel it all

the time in fantasy and in a pretty unique way. And the tough part is, is of course, is that, you know, there's a small percentage, but there is definitely a percentage of people online that will like tweet, Hey, when are you getting, you know, that like angrily tweet and they see a guy go down with a concussion and their first thought is oh god my fantasy team which by the way there's no one more into fantasy than me and i'm telling you like who cares the guy just got his head hit you know i mean like the guy's health is at stake like um and so i'm always embarrassed by that i always hate when i see when I see fantasy players tweet or post on Instagram

or whatever, post at athletes, when are you getting back? Are you ruining my fantasy season or anything like that? That's always a tough one. That's always just like, come on. With that said, there are certain people out there

that I truly hate for ruining my fantasy season. They know who they are. Fair enough. Hold on, we're going to do one more break and then we're going to talk about our favorite players. Okay. Oh my God, it's an old favorite. Oh enough. Hold on. We're going to do one more break, and then we're going to talk about our favorite players. Okay.

Oh, my God. It's an old favorite. Oh, yeah? Stamps.com. Hey, there you go. Wow. One of the first BS Report sponsors. Sure.

Way back when. As you know, these days, you can get everything on demand. I do know that. Like my podcast, like your podcast. Sure. On demand. Very convenient. Absolutely.

The fantasy show on ESPN+. Yeah. On demand. On demand. On. The fantasy show on ESPN plus. Yeah. On demand. On demand. On the OTT ESPN app. Yes, exactly. You can get stamps on demand. Why would you go to the post office?

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up to $55 of free postage, a digital scale, a four-week trial. Don't wait. Go to stamps.com before you do anything else. Click on the radio microphone at the top of the homepage. Type in BS, stamps.com, enter BS. All right, let's do it. Let's give the people what they want after an hour. I'm looking at the ESPN top 300 rankings. Okay. Le'Veon Bell is first. Yep. Are we sure he should be first? No.

Look, I have Bell at one. I have Gurley at two. David Johnson at three. Ezekiel Elliott at four. This is for PPR scoring. But any one of those guys, or Antonio Brown, if you took them at number one, I've got no issue with it. Antonio Brown, number one, you have no issue.

In PPR? He's been the number one wide receiver for four straight years. No, I don't want to talk about PPR. Non-PPR. This is a non-PPR podcast. Oh, man. ESPN standard scoring is PPR. Join the wave of the future. Why?

Defend PPR for me. Explain this to me. Seems like a crutch. Seems like a gimmick. It's not a gimmick. It is a gimmick. You're getting extra points just because you caught five catches. Who cares? Well, you understand that it's fake football. It's all a gimmick, right?

It's all a gimmick. We're talking about a fake game on the internet. What? The idea of PPR is I think it just makes more players relevant. Running backs that wouldn't have, you know, there are running backs that wouldn't have, you know, there are running backs that would not have fantasy value, but Duke Johnson

would not be fantasy relevant if it wasn't for PPR. I don't believe. Rex Burkhead, thank God for his seven catches for 28 yards. Let's give him some extra points. So it's all,

it's all sort of make-believe, but I will tell you it is the more popular format in terms of PPR. People like it. It's higher scoring, which I think people like that as well. Does more popular mean better though? It just means more dumb people like PPR. I'm going to do, I'm going to do a-

Anti-PPR podcast? I'm going to do a Twitter poll. I want to see if people are pro PPR or anti-PPR. Please do. Absolutely. Do a Twitter poll. Also, PPR is a terrible acronym. Do it right now because by the, like, you will get enough of a sample. All right. I'm going to do it right now. Do it right now and we'll see what it is by the end of the show all right uh end of the pod why don't you you filibuster on the top five well i think i think all those guys are fine because what you want at number one frankly is you want a high floor everyone thinks about a high ceiling

but you want a high floor um again we did this study like so ESPN, we looked at all the championship teams for the last two years, teams that made the playoffs and teams that made the championship. And so teams that made the playoffs averaged about 121 and a half points a week. I like how you're just staring off in the distance as I do this tweet. Right. You're like, you just, you know, you know, you're like a mom breastfeeding. I don't want to, I don't want to, I just, I don't, I don't want to make eye contact while you're, while you're tweeting. So 121.5 points.

If you take away kicker in defense, the first two rounds basically will account for 31% of your weekly total. Again, it's a lot of math. And if you want, you can just, you read the draft day manifesto or explains it a little bit more clearly. But the point is, is that you have to nail the first two rounds. You have to nail the first two rounds. And there I want safe. And so somebody like Antonio Brown, Antonio Brown, who has the highest floor, barring some injury,

Antonio Brown's going to find wind up a top three fantasy wide receiver this year. You know what I mean? So you don't have to finish the year as number one to be worth being the number one pick. I go for the gap between the person I'm picking and the group of people around them. So if there's seven, it's like the tier thing that you like. There's seven people in the tier and I could get the fifth guy in that tier,

but there's really not a lot of difference between six and seven and this guy. Or Antonio Brown, who's clearly better than whoever the next guy is. I would just much rather take Antonio Brown and roll the dice later. So if you have a top five pick, you're arguing for Antonio Brown. Yeah. I was just surprised to hear him at one. I'm not against him at one, by the way. I have him. I'm saying I don't have a problem with him going number one. I have him ranked five overall, but I don't have a problem with somebody. If somebody, if I'm in a draft and somebody had the number one overall pick and they took Antonio Brown,

especially in a PPR format, I got no issue with that at all. So why I have Le'Veon Bell again, you have to nitpick at the very top, but for Le'Veon Bell, who's done it for the longest amount of time, uh, there you can, again, they're all studs, but if you want to nitpick a little bit, how good is day is Arizona's offense going to be this year with a new quarterback? They don't have a lot. With David Johnson, I think you're counting on volume and pass catching. Ezekiel Elliott, same sort of thing. I think that's going to be... Kind of in on David Johnson.

Both guys could touch the ball 30 times a game. You just got hurt last year. No, it was a fluke injury with a wrist. I'm not worried about David Johnson. I mean, I have him at three. Can I ask you a question? Why are we talking about this in snake draft format when... I mean, if you guys, that's the most popular format.

If you have, if you have chest hair and you can grow facial hair, you do an auction. That's just, I have talked about this forever. Like auction is the way to go. It's so great. It's so much better.

It's not only the way to go. I actually lose respect for people when they tell me they're in a snake draft. I actually do. I lose respect. If you're in a PPR snake draft, I'm out. I don't want to talk about fantasy football. There you go. If you ever meet Phil Simmons, do not tell If you're in a PPR snake draft, I'm out. I don't want to talk about fantasy football. There you go.

If you ever meet Phil Simmons, do not tell him you're in a snake draft. You're just like, you're playing Madden in like the rookie level instead of the all Madden level. People enjoy that format. I agree with you. If there's an option. People enjoy a lot of things. It doesn't mean it's right.

That is correct. It is chess compared to checkers. But anyway, I think this is Le'Veon Bell's walk here in Pittsburgh. I think they, what did I say? Oh, wow. 1,209 votes in already. 70% are pro PPR. There you go.

30% are anti. Nice job. You guys all suck out there. There you go. There you go. Damn it. People like it. It's fun.

People like PPR. They like snake traps. They like everything you don't. Pro PPR or anti-PPR? I've done more at no PPRs, but I feel better about myself when I score better. That's why he does it. Right. You score more.

That's right. The young people, they love the PPR. Yeah. They just want instant gratification. Right. It's the what about me generation. Exactly. I'm hungry. Postmates. I want instant gratification. Right. It's the, what about me generation? Exactly. I'm hungry.

Postmates. I want more points for my catches. PPR. It's fun. Higher scores. And it makes, again, it makes like there should be a,

you should play in a league where Duke Johnson is relevant, where you care about Duke Johnson, where Theo Riddick gets drafted. Never want to care about Duke Johnson. So anyway, I just think they run the Le'Veon Bell into the ground. Is why I have him at number one. Give you a quick stat on Todd Gurley.

So you think Roethlisberger is slipping a little bit. Le'Veon Bell is the entire offense this year. I don't know that he's the entire offense, but, you know, no Todd Haley there. I just, what I think is he's always been a workhorse. Le'Veon Bell, He touches the ball so much. And I think the Steelers know after this year, he's leaving. They franchised him one last year. So run him into the ground?

Run him into the ground, 100%. And I think Le'Veon, who really wants to get paid, is going to be like Le'Veon tweeted, this is going to be my best year ever. And obviously you can't predict getting injured, but staying healthy is a skill in the NFL. And yeah, I think Le'Veon has a monster year. I think he has the highest floor.

Again, I could nitpick Ezekiel Elliott. I think that offense is going to struggle somewhat. I don't know how efficient it's going to be. It's going to be a very slow offense. Not fun to root for. Yeah. Not that all these football players are good guys, but when Zeke's on your team, it's like, eh, I don't know.

You know what's weird for me? I just sound like him personally. You know, it's weird. And I don't know if you have this because, you know, you've met a lot of athletes and you have kids too. So I met Ezekiel Elliott with my, at the time, 12-year-old son last year. And he was nice to him. Couldn't have been greater to my kid.

See, that'll swing it completely. Right. Could not have been nicer to my kid. And he was nice to my kids Couldn't have been greater to my kid. See, that'll swing it completely. Right. Could not have been nicer to my kid. And he was nice to my kids. I liked them forever. Like my son plays running back in football. And so he was talking to him about playing football and like took pictures and signed a football and couldn't have been great. Couldn't have been better to my kid. $200 auction format. Does anyone break the bank? If I was in a $200 auction format, here's what I would do.

I would pay up for running backs. I would go heavy on running backs. So you have like Bell, Gurley, David Johnson, Ezekiel Elliott, I love Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, Darius Geisler. You're talking like $50 and higher? Yeah, I'd even go more because in an auction, again,

quarterback is so deep. I'd go dirt cheap on quarterback. Wide receiver is really deep. I would try to pay to get one of the elite guys there's like seven wide receivers i'd want one of the seven so i'd want one of antonio brown julio jones odell beckham michael thomas uh davante adams um i'm forgetting somebody off the keenan allen eric decker not eric decker although that was a big signing, the Patriots. I don't, I don't know.

They're trying something new and different. They try to get a white guy. They've never done this before. Kyle, we ever had a white guy. We had to replace Edelman for the first couple. They've never, they've never had a,

an old injured player that was, you know, that had success. It's an unconventional move. Does Eric Decker make the team i'm not convinced he makes the team i think i think belichick's like fuck it i'm on my way out i'm going all white guys that receive this year just everybody tight ends receivers this is kind of like my dream come true well first off i think hogan is being way speaking of your team i think

hogan is being way under drafted people forget before he got injured he was a top 10 fantasy wide receiver. He's going to play in the slot. Everyone's, you know, people were talking about Jordan Matthews before he got released. I'm like, it's going to be Hogan in the slot. We're going to have the Hogan Edelman Decker. Hogan Edelman Decker, there you go.

Oh, and the seventh round white guy from Miami. Right. Unbelievable. Vanilla Thunder, let's go. Unbelievable. Vanilla Thunder. Let's go. Give this core a nickname. Belichick is like, he's hilarious.

What's wrong with that guy? Never dull with the Patriots. I will say if I'm picking on a non-Hogan Edelman wide receiver for the Patriots, I like Kenny Britt the best. Although, I'm always teaming with

Errol Patterson, although right now I think they're going to use him more on special teams. So that is exciting for me because the Patriots have just continuously thrown away kickoff returns for the last like 12, 13, 14 years. It was like freaking Mike Vrabel returning kickoff returns.

They didn't care. And I'm actually excited to see them care about kickoff returns. Patterson's unbelievable on special teams. I think the overreaction guy this year, do you want to guess? Sure. I have it in my, in my head. Okay.

This year's overreaction. It's usually a guy who should be in like the, the kind of, you mean like, how do you define overreaction for me? You mean like he'll do better or you mean people are going to overhype him? It's a combination of overhype. Somebody who's usually in like the eight to 14 range,

but even goes higher than that. Mike Evans was the guy last year. Everybody had a big jerk off session about Mike Evans last year. Cousin Sal had, I think he spent like $53 on Mike Evans or something last year. Like it was just, at some point it becomes crazy. So I have my guy for this year. Who's your guy?

Who do I think it will be or who is my... Who do you think it will be? Who is going to be the bandwagon? Wow, this guy's going there? Possibly Saquon. Possibly Devontae Adams. I think people will be surprised. Although I believe in both those players,

but I could see people being surprised at how high those guys are going. It's going to be Alvin Kamara. I think he could be one of the four or five most expensive auction guys. And I think he could be a top five. Yeah. I mean, I have him at six. I have him at six.

So yeah. You know why? Because he's really fun to have on your team. he's awesome. Yeah. It doesn't mean it totally makes sense. He might, will he get 230 carries? No, but he'll probably get that many touches.

He's going to be involved in the passing game. Listen, I'm high on the Saints this year. First off, Ingram is suspended for the first four games. Alvin Kamara, what did he do? I haven't done my research yet. Was there some chemical issues with Mark Ingram? I believe so. I believe so.

So he's suspended for the first four games. I think Alvin Kamara, no pun intended, runs away with his job. Wow. So he's not the guy then if Ingram's out for the first four. Yeah, I mean, he's going in the first round of every draft. So it's Saquon Barkley then. Saquon Barkley. I have Saquon at five overall.

I have five among running backs, six overall. Another one who's just, or seven, actually. Sorry, I have Hopkins ahead of him, but seven overall, yeah. You want to leave a fantasy draft just being fired up because you have guys you like on your team. Like if you end up with Barkley as your top guy, it's just fun to go into the season. It's like the ceiling on this guy is probably the highest

because we have no idea what it is. Right. Yeah. And well, first off, just a obviously he's a great player. And also, and this is something that I don't think gets talked a lot about in fantasy football analysis, Bill, but as someone who knows, you know, a lot of GMs and coaches and athletes and has been around a lot of pro teams, I think you can speak to this as well. No, I don't know anybody. There are politics on a football team, just like there are in any other office in terms of certain people of pro teams. I think you can speak to this as well. No, I don't know anybody. There are politics on a football team, just like there are in any other office in terms of certain people that get promoted that maybe they shouldn't be because, and there's relationships there. And, and so Saquon Barkley, forget talent or anything like that. Saquon Barkley has to be a success this

year for the Giants. Like because it's a success for the GM, for the owner, for the coach, for them going, for them passing on Darnold and getting all the criticism for taking a running back he look we'll see if he is but he will be given every opportunity to be a success he needs to have a huge year for for the team for the franchise for the front office so he's going to touch the ball a ton and Pat Shermer's offense, their new head coach, his offense is actually a great fit for what Saquon Barkley does well. This is the Atlanta Hawks, Trey Young. Yeah. Right. They went all in on Trey Young and it's like, this guy has to succeed. Now we have to give away Dennis Schroeder. Right. And we got to really, this is not Trey Young's team. It's like, I'm not sure Trey Young

should have a team. Right. In Barkley's case, he's clearly really good. And I think of all the guys I'm looking, so this list right now, Bell, Gurley, David Johnson, Zeke Elliott, Antonio Brown, Barkley, Kamara, Jones, Beckham, Hopkins. I would say only the top seven have a chance to be the top guy. Like when we look

back at points at the end of the year. I don't know if I agree with that. I mean, who else would you say? If Julio Jones catches a ton of touchdowns, I mean, like he got really a lot. Is it the most points of anybody? Sure. It's going to be a running back. Especially, again, I guess we're not doing PPR.

Yeah, I mean, in non-PPR, I would agree it's probably a running back. Yeah. But in PPR, like Julio Jones could easily be the number one player overall. I could see Barkley having the most points. Yeah. 100%.

I mean, non-quarterback, obviously. Quarterback scoring's, I mean, like. I don't think he's, I don't think there's any way he's not good. I agree with you for all the reasons you mentioned. And I like, I interviewed him and like, listen, there are people that there are players that I've interviewed that I loved and then they didn't do anything. And there are players that I've interviewed that I, that I came away with a negative feeling for. And then they, they ended up having huge years. Yeah. Um, but for whatever it's worth after interviewing Saquon Barkley for like 20 minutes, I was just like, man, like obviously loved your tape.

But then just talking to him about his approach to the game and and, you know, sort of his attitude and his work ethic and everything like I don't know. I remember tweeting something about like I tweeted a photo of us and I said something to the effect of like, you know, after meeting Saquon Barkley, you know, love the kid even more. And Bruce Feldman, you know, college football writer, you know, does a great job.

Bruce Feldman, like tweeted back to me. He says, you should change the headline to after everyone loves Saquon Barkley after meeting him. He's just like everyone I've ever talked to just says, he's just the greatest kid. I don't think anyone in the history of sports media has been more swayed by

random meetings with their, with their fantasy. Yeah yeah this is a recurring thing with you yeah you meet guys and then then you you subconsciously root for them right who's the worst case scenario this worst i mean it was a quarterback right um what do you mean who had the worst interview or like no people that you liked, that you were convinced from a personality standpoint that made you think, and you went, you've done this before. You've gone all in on people. Barkley's a good gamble for you though.

Barkley's a gamble. Listen, like- Speaking of bad gambles, I'm getting killed on this poll. Okay. There you go. It's 70 to 35,000 votes. Told you.

I don't know if this is necessarily the loss for me. It just means there's a lot of dumb people out there. A lot of dumb people that follow you on Twitter, I think is what you're saying. And I think that's what Bill's saying. That's not what I'm saying. I love the... I just think...

You love your followers? They're people that just don't know any better. That may be it. They just don't have the right people in their life. For the record, I am voting with the 70% of your fans. Should I do an auction versus... Yeah, do an auction versus... life for the for the record i am voting with uh i'm voting with the 70 of your fans should i do an auction versus yeah do an auction versus that will be more that will be closer but more people vote snake just because more people play snake like just i just know so at espn.com where it

is free to play including our free app i gotta get some plugs in here uh i know we have many more people we're the number one game we have you know millions upon millions of people that play with us and we have many more snake leagues than we do auction leagues really oh yeah significantly more hold on I'm doing so and I think part of it's also because it's also it's easier and quicker I mean you can do us I mean you can do both obviously but you can do a snake draft from your phone

in an hour and a half. In an hour, if everyone's making picks quickly. One of the most fun things that's happened this decade has been the mock... What's that machine you have? Oh, Mock Draft Lobby. Mock Draft Lobby. Yeah. It's actually really helpful and useful.

Oh, yeah. And Cousin Sal's in there a lot. I'm just going to leave it at that. As well he should be. By the way, someone who hasn't won in a long time, Bill Simmons, maybe check him out a little bit. Just saying. I've had bad luck.

Yeah. I used up all my luck that one year when I had the greatest fantasy team of all. Now you're done. Maybe the fantasy gods are smiting you because of your because of your PPR non PPR stance I had a typo in the poll I had to delete it

alright I just put up the second poll okay my prediction I think auction wins like 53 to 47 what was the question what is better or what do you play second fantasy football ball auction or snake draft. That was it. Just gave the two choices. Didn't try to sway.

Auction might win. There is nothing more fun, especially if you're in a league with a group of buddies or people you know well, than doing an auction draft. It's a whole day thing. You get a caterer or you go to a restaurant or something like that. Have an auctioneer. Have somebody that's not in the league.

We have Mike August for our league. We pay him in chicken tenders. It's fantastic, right? And that is, it's awesome. I would bring Kyle in as my helper, but I don't think he would do the work. I can handle that. I can handle that. You'd have a couple people to go sneak sticks with at the little breaks.

I might bring him. You should. Yeah, do you think you would get crap? Because I get brought in as a helper to some people. Do you think you would get- No, because people know I wouldn't help. Right. I haven't won in 11 years. No, I know.

But if you brought in a helper, do you think your league would like- I brought Tate two years ago. No, it's fine. Okay. Yeah. Jon Hamm has a helper in our league. How does he do he he's in the middle of the road like his like his St. Louis teams right he's right right middle middle of the curve that's the uh that's the league where somebody gets voted out right yeah I I love that league I am one of two people that has not been

voted out yet my time is coming that's probably a reason not to bring Kyle this year because I think Damoshek's in charge and I think I'm going to get voted out this year. I thought I was going to get voted out last year. But do you think, again, well, if you haven't won since 2011, maybe it's perfect to keep you in the league. 0-7, it's even worse. Yeah, like why are you voting out Simmons?

You know you're beating him. Like you want to vote on a potential champion. I've had terrible luck. I also think part of the reason you haven't been voted out is I think you secretly want to vote on a potential champion. I've had terrible luck. I also think part of the, part of the reason you haven't been voted out is, is I think you secretly want to, it's sort of like, you know,

like on survivor or big brother. One of those things where the guy's like, just vote me out, just vote me out. Like in the person who wants to get voted out. Yeah. We're keeping them around. I take the satisfaction out of voting me out.

Cause I want to get voted out. Right. So they don't want, they're not going to let you out. It's a Jedi mind trick. Yeah, exactly. I'm eating the rice and survivor trying to get people to kick me out. Yeah. So they don't want it. They're not going to let you out. It's a Jedi mind trick. Yeah, exactly. I'm eating the rice and Survivor trying to get people to kick me out.

Top quarterback? Rodgers. Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, Sean Watson, Carson Wentz. You're taking the extremely fragile Aaron Rodgers, who's always plays in a cold weather city. You know, it's always one hit away from breaking something. Every single year that Aaron Rodgers has played at least a 14 game, I think he has been a top two fantasy quarterback in seven out of the eight years that he's played double digit games. I love the lack of respect for Thomas Brady. I am a two. He's 41 years old.

I am a two. And by the way, so this is, I'm going to pull this out because I want to make sure I get this stat right. So I wrote a comment on ESPN.com called 100 Facts so this is, I'm going to pull this out because I want to make sure I get this stat right. So I wrote, I wrote a column on ESPN.com called 100 facts. 100 facts you need to know. Oh, it's an enjoyable column. I appreciate that.

I like that. I like the 100 facts. So, and I talked about Thomas Brady there. And by the way, are you pro or anti-straw? Just as long as we're

talking about Brady. Where are you? Did you see his whole Instagram post on straws? Oh, plastic straws? Where are you on that? My wife's been on this corner for the last couple months. There's a reasons to be pro, to be anti straws,

but I haven't really sorted it out yet. You know what I still like? I haven't done a deep dive on the research yet. Here's the thing. I've never really been a straw guy. No, I'm not either. Only with like the Starbucks iced coffees or something? Yeah. Here's the thing. I've never really been a straw guy. No, I'm not either. Only with like the Starbucks iced coffees or something. Yeah. I'll do a straw. Like I do straws like when I'm driving, like, you know, you drive through a fast food place, whatever,

you know, but generally I'm not a big straw guy with cocaine. It's still useful. 2014 weeks, 13 through 16, Tom Brady was QB 14. Yeah. Prior to that, he was QB seven. In 2015, weeks 13 to 16, Tom Brady QB eight. He was the number one quarterback points per game, weeks one through 12 before that. 2016, weeks 13 through 16, Tom Brady was QB nine. He was QB two, weeks one through 12 that season. Last year, weeks 13 through 16, Tom Brady was QB 20. He was QB four in points per game, weeks one through 12. So the last four years, whatever Tom Brady has done, weeks one through 12,

and he's been a top seven quarterback each of those years, he has always been worse in the playoffs from weeks 13 through 16. So the week to get into the playoffs, you know, or the final week of the regular season and then the playoffs, he's been traditionally worse.

He's been, whether it was QB for here's his playoff finishes. The last four years, 2014 QB, 14, 2015 QB, eight, 2016 QB, nine,

20 QB, 20 last year, by the way, this year, weeks, 13 through 16, three of the four teams to play the Patriots were top 10 in terms of fewest fantasy points allowed to opposing quarterbacks last season.

Now that's last season. But the fact of the matter is, and I don't know if they go conservative when it gets colder or just because he's older or whatever, but for what, and what, it's still QB nine, QB eight. Can I give you a suggestion? I'm just, I'm all saying is that Tom Brady's production does drop off from the regular season to the fantasy playoffs for whatever reason. Can I tell you why? Yeah, please.

Because we clinched the AFC East by Thanksgiving every year. That may be it. Yeah, that's why. He doesn't need to try in December. Fuck everybody. Go draft Tom Brady. But that's why he's the two, not one. Still draft. He's the GOAT. And by the way, the team's going to be a little bit worse this year. There's a little more competition in the AFC. Maybe

December will matter, finally, for the Patriots. Not in the AFC East. Maybe December will matter. You guys are going to rule the East. Nah, they say that every year. Who in the East? Like, seriously, Buffalo's a dumpster fire. The Jets, who knows what's going on with them. Oh, you're not following the Sam Darnold buzz? There's a lot of Jets fans in my life who are retweeting the Darnold looks great in scrimmage tweets.

I think the Jets are second in the AFC East. Yeah. But I mean, they're going to be second by like being, you know, six and ten, seven and nine. The greatest bet in football this year is the Pats minus 600 to win the AFC East. Yeah, I mean, that's unbelievable. The odds of them not winning, I don't even know what

would have to happen other than like a bus crash or something. Like, they have so much more talent than everyone else in the East. It's unbelievable. Yeah. All those teams are. Do you, are you a proponent? I guess we can wrap up soon, but are you a proponent of the back and offense?

We have a guy in the league I'm in with Sal Kohurst. Yeah. Who every year just goes all in on an offense, but now we figured it out. So when he gets the quarterback and one receiver, we just fuck him on the other guy. So he can't do it. But are you a believer in, I love this offense. I'm just grabbing as many as I can. I don't have an issue. I don't have an issue with it. I'm not a big believer in any one

particular strategy. I'm always like a, let the draft or auction come to me. That's me too. So if there is, um, so I mean, there's certainly the, there's an offense that I really like, like if I think, you know, like this is the Patriots year or whatever, or the Eagles, right? You know, like the Eagles would be a great offense. Right.

And you're just like, so I don't have a problem with like, at the time where it comes to take Wentz or Ajay or Ertz, I'm good with all that, but I wouldn't like, I wouldn't bypass a good player. I wouldn't bypass Gronk because I got to get Ertz because I'm going all in on the Eagles offense. You know what I mean?

Like I just, yeah. So I don't mind if the way the draft or auction warms up that I wind up with Wentz and Ertz and Najia. I don't mind that, Alshon Jeffrey, whatever it is, but I don't, yeah, I don't target it either. It's all about just player value. There's one strategy I've always wanted to try. I'm with you. I always let the draft go. And every year some people are doing weird shit and you just kind of have to react to it. The one strategy I've always wanted to try is to lock down two running backs and two receivers. Okay.

Yeah. And then get like nine quarterbacks. I did this once. I had four. And everybody in my league got mad. But just basically lock up all the quarterbacks and to the point where it's crippling half the other teams in the league. And then you figure you hit on three or four of them

and I have the best trade bait. Nobody can pick other quarterbacks up off the wire. I've just locked quarterbacks down. I know they're going to win, but I just want to do it for the reactions of everyone else in the room. They'd be so mad. I'm telling you it is a terrible strategy. Because this year there's like 22 good quarterbacks.

So even if you grab nine. 22 good quarterbacks? Yeah. There's that many this year? Oh yeah. I mean guys like Marcus, open up your ESPN ADP. Marcus Mariota, he'll play eight games. Look where Phillip Rivers is going.

Phillip Rivers is 38 years old. Phillip Rivers is 4,000 yards and 25 touchdowns in the bank every single year. You just shit on Tom Brady. I can't shit on Phillip Rivers. I didn't shit on Tom Brady. All I said was just basically there's a reason why I have him at two behind Aaron Rodgers, the fragile Aaron Rodgers, as you refer to him. Oh, just play 16 games, Aaron Rodgers.

Stop giving interviews. Try to last the whole season for once. So, like, yeah. Alex Smith is going as QB 18. Phillip Rivers is going QB 19. Eli Manning at 20. Mariota 21. Tyrod Taylor at 22. Mitch Trubisky at 23.

Guess who's not going to be on my team this year? Mitch Trubisky. Don't be surprised if Trubisky has a nice little fantasy season, by the way. That's going to be a fantasy-friendly offense in Chicago. Guess what? They added Allen Robinson. Guess what? I'm going to be really, really surprised. They added Tariq. They didn't add, but they're going to use Tariq Cohen. Matt Nagy's got a fantasy-friendly

offense. Trubisky, more mobile than you think he is. Trubisky's going as QB 23. I bet he outperforms that ADP. I bet you he finishes higher than QB 23 in the season. Well, and I guarantee he's on the ninth place team in your fantasy league. Tyler Taylor's going to, I mean, who knows if he gives away to Baker

Mayfield at some point. Tyler Taylor has been a top 12 fantasy quarterback the last three years. I'm just going to give you, I was judged this by, I'm at the draft. Yes. And the QB you can't win without a QB that A, you feel comfortable with, and B, who's going to get points. And at some point during the draft, we all realize that when we panic, because you start thinking with, and B, who's going to get points. And at some point during the draft, we all realize that when we panic

because you start thinking about it and you go, fuck, there's only five quarterbacks that I really actually like. I got to get one of these five. And if I don't get this, I'm going to leave this draft and I'm just going to be sad. But I'm telling you quarterback is, you'd be, anyway, go ahead.

What do you got? I believe you. I'm just going through who I'd feel good about. Okay. Rodgers, yes. Even though he's fragile and injured. Wow, he's still... The greatest QB of all time, Tom Brady, yes.

Okay. Russell Wilson, no. Interesting. I don't love that team. I agree. It feels like a transition year. I agree. I think he's taken a lot of hits.

Also true. I don't like the division. Never missed a game. Yeah. I wouldn't feel great division. Never missed a game. Yeah. I wouldn't feel great if that was my first guy. I think it's going to be a tough year for Seattle, and I think at the end of the year, you'll look up and Russell Wilson's going to be put up points because

he's literally all they got. I don't know that they're going to be able to run effectively. We'll see what they get out of Rashad Penny. We'll see if they can fix that offensive line. Could also see the four-game season where they get the first pick. I will say this, though. If Baldwin does miss time, Doug Baldwin's got the knee injury, and they say he's going to be ready for opening week, but if it turns out the

knee injury to Baldwin is more serious, then I would have concerns about Wilson, but I currently have him at QB3. Cam Newton? Okay. Not comfortable. Interesting. Not comfortable. Carson Wentz. I get it on Cam, but listen, with North Turner as the offense coordinator there, Cam was like, you know, Cam always puts up points.

Again, it's all about the rushing with Wilson and Cam. He's too up and down for me. He has those games like he had in New England last year, and then the next day he has 118 yards, and I can't handle it. He is frustrating. I understand that. Carson Wentz, don't know when he's playing again. No. Deshaun Watson, yes. Yeah, of course.

I don't know why, but I'm, because he has the same knee injury as Carson Wentz, basically, but I think it happened a little bit earlier. Well, it happened a lot earlier in the season. I'm in on Deshaun. Yeah.

Drew Brees, yes. 100%. Kirk Cousins, no. Andrew Luck, no way. See, I'm okay on Andrew. Andrew Luck is, Andrew Luck on ESPN, Andrew Luck is currently

going in the ninth round. The last two seasons, Andrew Luck was healthy, and I know it's been the ninth round. The last two seasons, Andrew Luck was healthy, and I know it's been a bit, but the last two seasons, Andrew Luck was healthy. He was a top four fantasy quarterback. So if you're telling me I get a potential top four fantasy quarterback with a ninth round pick at going at QB nine.

I'm happy when you take him if you're in my league. Right, fine. And by the way, if he doesn't work out, again, quarterback so deep, I'll go to the waiver wire and I'll pick up, whatever, Jared Goff or Alex Smith, who isn't getting drafted and ridiculous uh philip rivers tyrod taylor tyrod taylor's gonna be a top 12 fantasy quarterback as long as he's cubing the browns again it's the rushing dude i appreciate uh your defense of me andrew luck sorry i'm doing uh

stafford i just don't enjoy having on my team. I don't enjoy having the Lions. He's passed away, so this is sad. But there was a comedian in Vegas named Danny Gans. I don't know if you know Danny Gans. And I went to see him once. And every impression was like that. Angel Rock? Well, right.

Like, if you're a good impressionist, you don't need to do the voice. But he'd be like, hey, what's up? It's me, Jack Nicholson. If you're any good at being impressionist, you don't need to do that. You know what'd be like, Hey, what's up? It's me, Jack Nicholson. I'm like, if you're any good at being impressionist, you don't need to do that. You know what I mean? Like I'm an awful impressionist,

but right. Yeah. That was, it just reminded me of very Danny Gantz. Thank you. Because he would always do this. Like Danny Gantz, hey,

it's me, Cliff Clavin hanging out at this bar in Boston. And you'd be like, Oh good God. Like literally every impression was that. And you're just like Stafford. Yeah. I just don't like having my team.

Okay. Garoppolo. Yeah. What about Jimmy GQ? impression was that and you're just like Stafford yeah I just don't like having my team okay Garoppolo yeah what about Jimmy GQ I don't like his offseason there's a lot of Garoppolo red flags right now yeah I don't like him comparing himself to Vince in the entourage cast okay today with the porn star made me nervous right he got paid a lot

because there's a lot of people in the bandwagon it just I'm nervous I would still take him but I'd be nervous if he was my number one QB. I have inside my top 10. I think he is the real deal. Talent wise. I did too. I'm driving the Jimmy G bandwagon.

I just, there was things I don't like. They, San Francisco literally did not want to start him last year. Their whole offensive line was beat up. They did not. Everyone was like much better. Oh,

line this year, much better. Oh, line this year. They get PR Garcon back another year. He's got a full year in shanahan's offense i remember reading an interview with matt ryan where and this is they asked him what happened two years ago when they went to the super bowl i'm sure you're familiar with uh the falcons that year right um and prior to 28-3 uh matt ryan obviously had a monster year in 2016 right he was amazing

it was like a you know i think he was the number two fantasy quarterback that year or certainly top four and uh they asked and he said it said he said kyle shanahan's offense is really complex but the second year it finally all clicked in for me so garoppolo put up the numbers he did behind a beat-up offensive line last year with with like nothing out there and having had three weeks with Shanahan's playbook. Now he's had the entire off season to know like he's the guy. Reinforcements are coming.

I think George Kittle is a nice tight end, second year player, Trent Taylor as well. Obviously you've got Goodwin and Garcon. McKinnon was a nice off season signing for them. Their offensive line is going to be better. Garoppolo I think is the real deal. And I know you don't-

You don't need to sell me on Jimmy. I just, there's a couple of red flags. I'm not selling you on Jimmy. I'm selling your audience on Jimmy. I'd still be happy if I left my team with him, but if there's 10% of me, I'd be like, man. Nervous, okay. I hope-

Nervous. I hope I'm just being nervous. Don't compare yourself to a guy from Entourage. No, yeah, don't. Phil Rivers, I don't want on my team. Mahomes, I kind of like, but he he's still like if he's your first guy like if you end up with like Mahomes and Rivers I don't feel 100%

comfortable with that Alex Smith not fun to have on your team sorry Matt Ryan and I will tell you talking to people around the Redskins that sounded very professional talking to people around the Redskins. Oh, you sound very professional. Yeah.

Talking to people around the Redskins, I will tell you that they think they upgraded a quarterback. Now, maybe they're all towing the company line. They all hated Kirk Cousins. None of them are missing Kirk. None of them are bummed about Kirk and, oh, feel like they got second place without Smith. They all feel they improved at the quarterback position.

I mean, this is coaches, this is players, this is front office people. Like they really like what he brings to that offense. He's, again, another guy that's like more mobile than you think he is. You don't have to sell me Alex Smith. I went against him in playoff games. Matt Ryan.

Can I give you my home stat real quick? Past decade, Andy Reid's quarterbacks have scored 2,755.4 fantasy points. Over the past decade, just an Andy Reid quarterback. If Andy Reid were an NFL franchise, that would rank fifth best in the league during that stretch. So basically, Andy Reid's quarterbacks have been top five in fantasy points over the last decade. that would rank fifth best in the league during that stretch so it basically andy reed's

quarterbacks have been top five in fantasy points over the last decade like and we can make time management jokes all you want but andy reed quarterbacks perform again outsmith they were a playoff team last year outsmith was a top five fantasy quarterback and a monster season and they got rid of them because of what they think they have in my homes andy reed quarterbacks perform. Yes. Andy Reid teams choking the playoffs. I like Jared Goff out of all these other guys. I had him on my team last year.

Makes big plays. I thought losing Sammy Watkins, I'm not worried about because I was never impressed by him. No, and Cooks, Brandon Cooks was a nice get for the Rams. I'm a little down on Goff. I think I'm at QB 15. I think there's going to be some touchdown regression. I think he threw a touchdown pass once every 10 attempts,

something like that. NFL averages once every 14, something like that. I think there's going to be a little bit of touchdown regression with Jared Goff. Having said that, I am, I mean, and this is way back from my Redskins days. I am so Sean McVay. I mean, I think Sean McVay.

I love that guy. When I said this, we did a live podcast last night. I said that's on that show too. I think when all is said and done, Sean McVay will be considered one of the top five NFL coaches of all time. Wow. Not to be all hot takey or anything like that,

but that is how brilliant I think that guy is. Kyle, do you hold it against Brandon Cooks that he tried to vault that dude in the Super Bowl instead of just going around him? There are so many things to be upset about in that Super Bowl. Remember that? He tried to hijack the guy. Early, early. I know. Act like you've been there before, Brandon Cooks.

It's going to be hard for me to come back from him. He's not going to be on my team this year. I'll just tell you that much. Yeah, I mean, I prefer Robert Woods. Robert Woods was good. Robert Woods was really good. So Cooper cup I had last year. And you know, you had that guy you're a little too attached to. Yeah.

He was my guy last year. Yeah. And, uh, there were signs. He had a couple of big drops in, in, uh,

he had a couple of times. One of the league leaders in red zone targets. Like when they got in close golf was looking for him a lot. Um, and I know again, talking to people around the Rams, one of the reasons they went out to get Woods is, and they felt like in Buffalo, he was, it was a little bit more, this isn't the right phrase, but a little bit more playground football. And you know, Tyrod, it was so athletic that plays would break down, but they thought Woods was a really, really good route runner.

Yeah, he was a real and he is. And that's one of the reasons they went on and got him because they thought he was a perfect fit for what golf does well and what McVay likes to call. And so I think Woods is still going to be the number one.

I think you'll see Cooks in the Watkins role. And Brandon Cooks will have like four or five monster games this year, but you'll have no idea where they come in terms of consistent fantasy production this year, give me Woods and Cup. Give me, let's end on this,

stay away at each position. QB, stay away. Dak, Dak Prescott. Running back. Kenyon Drake. I just, I think Kenyon Drake is really big play dependent. And listen, he was a home run hitter in Alabama too. So, I mean, that's part of his skill set.

But they brought in Frank Gore, who I don't think Frank Gore is, you know, has a lot left in the tank, but he's going to take some touches away. They have a rookie there named Kalen Balazs, who I really like a lot. I just don't think Miami likes Kenyon Drake as a bell cow running back. If you look at the numbers, Kenyon Drake's yards per carry gets worse as the game goes on. And so I think you'll see limited touches. He's being drafted as if he's going to be the guy that was towards the end of last year,

where he's just a stud. And I think he's going to be more in a committee. So Kenyon Drake, just where he's being drafted is somebody that I'm not crazy about. Receiver to stay away from. Receiver to stay away from. No, don't let, you didn't need lists 10 years ago no i know i need your ipad there's not like five kids all of a sudden you need an ipad to come up with an answer um let's see a receiver that i'm not uh i'm one of those

minnesota guys new qb yeah i mean i prefer feeling to uh i prefer feeling to steph on digs i wouldn't New QB. Yeah. I mean, I prefer Thielen to Stefan Diggs. I wouldn't have. I don't know. It's hard to hate a wide receiver. Oh, here's one. I'll give you one. Yeah. And people are going to be like, this is crazy.

So it's not somebody that I would, quote, stay away from. But A.J. Green makes me nervous this year. A little fragile. A tiny bit. A tiny bit fragile. He's played all 16 games just twice in the last four years. Like I haven't met wide receiver 10.

I won't get him in any drafts. So I still have him as a top 10 wide receiver, but he's somebody that's a little bit fragile. I don't have a ton of confidence in Andy Dalton. What?

He's very big play dependent last year. What made you come to that conclusion? Andy Dalton just doesn't throw touchdown passes, right? And so it's just like AJ Green's on the wrong side

of 30. Talk about that front of roof. AJ Green's on the wrong side of 30. Talk about not fun to root for. AJ Green's on the wrong side of 30. So again, like I have him at 10, but that's somebody that won't be on any of my teams this year because somebody will draft him before I'm willing to. Favorite rookie running back not named Barkley. Darius Geis, not close.

And everyone's going to say that's a homer pick because of the Redskins, but Darius Geis is somebody that, so last year, Samadji Pirine and Rob Kelly on a Redskins team that was starting guys off the street at their offensive line on a team that couldn't run the ball and a team that was getting blown out because of their defense. If you combine Samadji Pirine and Rob Kelly into one player, they would have tied for third in goal to go attempts,

rushing attempts. Like when they get in close, Jay Gruden likes to run the ball and whatever you think about Jay Gruden, I actually think Jay Gruden's a good coach. But whatever you think about Jay Gruden, his offenses have always scored. They've always scored points. And Darius Geis was a first-round talent. People were talking about him going in the top 13. And then there were, you know, off-the-field rumors or whatever. With a football player?

Right. Shocking. And they love him in Washington. And again, talking to, they love him. That's a guy that's going to get the ball early and often on an offense that's going to score. He's my fantasy ride or die this year. Last year, that was Kareem Hunt.

This year, it's Darius Geis. Kareem Hunt's too high up to be a fantasy ride or die at this point. It's too obvious. But yeah, Darius Geis is my fantasy ride or die. Kareem Hunt was last year's premature ejaculation fantasy football guy. Unbelievable first two weeks.

I know it was tough. And he kind of shot his wide early. Yeah, it was, it was tough there in the middle. And then they finally got around to giving the ball again. Yeah. Who was your worst ride or die guy the last 10 years? Oh God. I don't know that I had a worse ride or die, but I will tell you, I was fairly high in

trail prior last year. That didn't work out. That was bad. And whatever, like four years ago, like Cordero Patterson's second year in Minnesota, I thought, hey, this is a guy that all the athletic ability is there.

I spent 20 minutes at the NFL Combine talking with Norv Turner, and all he talked about was Cordero Patterson and how he had all these plays designed for him and how excited he was about getting to work with Cordero Patterson. And then I went all in on him and then, yeah, that, that didn't work out for me. Um, Jeremy Macklin. I was never, I was never a big Macklin guy. I was, I Macklin, I were tweeting Macklin got mad at me. He started tweeting at me. We were

going back and forth on, on the Twitter there, but just cause he was just, he was just basically crapping all over fantasy football. I remember this, actually. There's still some players that more and more of them are getting the message. And I just went back at him and I said, he's like, I don't care about your fantasy team.

And I'm like, nor should you, Jeremy. This is when he was with the Chiefs. I'm like, you should only care about helping Kansas City win, but why insult a bunch of people that aren't Chiefs fans, but will still be rooting for Jeremy Macklin? How is that a bad thing? You know what I mean? And he shot another insult.

And I'm like, he just signed some big deal. I forget for how much. And I said, I'm making up, call it 18 million or whatever. And I said, I said, fantasy football is part of the reason why you just got an $18 million contract. Because fantasy football is what drives red zone subscription is drives ratings and that, that it drives attendance. And so it drives popularity in the league,

which is, which raises the salary cap, which is one of the reasons why the players get paid. I mean, I have, I've had, that's why Berman apologized to you. I'm sorry.

I punched you. Berman never apologized to me because he never had anything to apologize to me. It wasn't a punch. It was an open hand smack uh he um Boomer you're just gonna torture me on this one I love Boomer I seriously I forgot how much fun it is to make you uncomfortable the Berman thing you just say you turn anything ESPN believe me a lot of ESPN people tell them and a million years ago uh But anyway, no Boomer like he was somebody came to me

once like towards the because we weren't getting fantasy on Sunday Night Football Countdown. Yeah. And and somebody came to me and they said Boomer doesn't like fantasy football, but he does like you because he like he he notices that because him and I would we would stay in the. Did you still have the black eye at that point or did it heal?

Because we would watch football together. By the way, you know what Boomer does do? Yeah. You talk about fantasy golf. Yeah. Boomer is actually a huge fantasy golf player. Loves fantasy golf. Wow.

Yeah. He's in a big pool. Ooh. The dumbasses have weighed in on our second poll. Okay. Auction, 31% snake draft 69% I give up on all of you people you're on the wrong side of this

I disagree with your twitter followers there I'm with you on that one auction over snake Kyle do you have any questions for the talented Mr. Roto anything on Deshaun Watson all I see is he looks, he looks like he's okay.

Good question. I think he, I think he's going to be awesome. Honestly. Like I, I just think there are some players that just are just special. Right. You know what I mean? Like just have it.

And he is one of those guys. I actually thought that was the great kind of sliding doors moment of last season. Oh yeah. I think Houston could have like made the AFC title game. A hundred percent. And Jacksonville kind of wasn't meant of last season. Oh, yeah. I think Houston could have made the AFC title game. 100%. And Jacksonville kind of wasn't meant to be in there, and then all of a sudden was in there,

and then Bortles kind of got it together, and all of a sudden they almost made the Super Bowl. Had J.J. Watt and their defense gotten not so decimated and Watson doesn't get hurt, I didn't think the Patriots team was that great last year. I didn't think the Patriots deserved to be in the Super Bowl. You and me both, man. Yeah. I mean, we had the worst defense. I still

have nightmares about the defense. Kyle and I watched Super Bowl together. We'll watch this year's Super Bowl together, too, Kyle. We're going to make it again. 41-year-old Tom Brady has got this. I don't know. Alex Guerrero's got the magic hands. Are you pro or anti-Alex Guerrero?

Great massages, man. You saw it on Time vs. Time. Really digs into those legs. A lot of thumb work. A lot of thumb work. Really, TB's super comfortable with that dude. Are you on the TB12? Do you do the TB12?

No, I don't, but I fully support it. And I think Gillian Edelman was framed. Fair enough. Fair enough. And he last second Edelman was framed. Fair enough. Fair enough. And he last second plugs. Oh, last second plugs. Bunch of them, actually. So first off, fantasy football marathon.

If you want more actual fantasy football advice analysis instead of just two guys reminiscing about ESPN, 29 straight hours of it on ESPN and ESPN2, me, Schefter, Lewis Riddick, the Hasselbecks, just, you know, Stefania Bell, Mike Clay, Field Yates, everyone on the team there. So 29 straight hours. That starts August 13th at 6 p.m. Eastern.

I have an idea for the Fantasy Marathon. You guys can take this. I think you should introduce a third Hasselbeck brother who's kind of the black sheep. And he comes in, he's bald, but he's kind of like a little beaten up right and he seems like he might have had a few before the taping he's got a paper he's drinking out of a paper bag we're not sure what's in his advice is bad he's abrasive just it should have

sounded like i like listen if they don't take that for the marathon i will take that idea for the fantasy show yeah now every day on espn plus or streaming service, it's just five dollars a month and you get UFC and Kobe Bryant and the 30 for 30 library and everything. So it's it's a great bargain. It's 16 cents a day. So we do a lot of fun stuff

on the fantasy show. Check that out. And the fantasy focus podcast. We're doing this. I'm surprised you haven't done this. So they haven't approached you about this. But we do a live show on Twitter.

So in addition to the podcast, we do it in you about this but we do a live show on Twitter so in addition to doing the podcast we do it in front of cameras and you can watch it live on Twitter just follow at Fantasy Focus on Twitter 11 a.m. Eastern, 8 a.m. Pacific and then of course it's available on iTunes and the ESPN app and you know everywhere you get podcasts

Who are your hosts this year? It's myself, Field Yates and Stefania Bell and our producer is Daniel Dodd The issue is you and Nate Ravitz and then he became like a behind the scenes guy Yeah, now he's a vice president he's a paper pusher It's myself, Field Yates, and Stefania Bell. And our producer is Daniel Dodd. Initially, it was you and Nate Ravitz. And then he became like a behind the scenes guy. Yeah, now he's a vice president. He's a paper pusher.

Yeah, he's pushing paper. Bizarre. Yeah. He's doing real well, actually. He's fairly high up at the company. Yeah, I know. I remember as it was happening, like, wow, the fancy dude. He's a smart guy.

He has a desk and an office now? Well, it's one of those things where he was always a he was always in management um and we did the podcast together because we didn't really have anyone and then the podcast became so popular it was dumb to take him off the podcast and then candidly his just his job got too big where he just didn't have the time to do the prep and and do it so we made the switch uh a couple years ago so yeah but no uh field gates to find your bell our producer is daniel dopp and he's a character on the ago. So yeah, but no, Field Yates, Define Your Bell, our producer is Daniel Dopp, and he's a character on the show. And so that's Monday through Friday.

Yeah, and follow just at Fantasy Focus on the Twitter. And the last thing I'll mention is rotopass.com. You know, still alive. Still alive. A bunch of great fantasy sites. You can use the promo code BS for 10% off at rotopass.com but it's it's the ultimate fantasy football resource in addition to espn insider you get uh football guys and roto viz and rotowire and football outsiders and roster watch so it's a it's it's rankings it's tools it's draft software every customized auction values everything you possibly need to win your fantasy football league

and like 10 things more it's just i personally handpicked all these sites and tools and everything like that, so it's great. Rotopass.com, use the promo code BS for 10% off. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Hotel Tonight. If you like to score amazing deals at incredible hotels, Hotel Tonight partners with hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms,

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Don't forget about Matthew Barry's book, available along with my book for like 30 cents on eBay. Right, Amazon. Doesn't it get sad when the skeleton of our books is just on eBay and Amazon for a dollar? People like they tweet me, hey, I found you in the bargain bin, like $1. And you're like, oh. The picked over corpse of our book that we slaved over. Right. For two years. I got your book for a dollar. I'm glad anyone's

reading my book, but it's always like, oh. Yeah. That's where it is now. It's just in book cemetery. Right. And then I always get the question. I don't know if you get this. I always get like, oh, when are you writing another one? I'm like, it takes so much to write a book. I mean, you're a faster writer than I am. Like, you can pump it out. I can't. No, you're right. Way more than I am. I really want to update the book of basketball and I just don't ever see a roadmap to me having the time to do that, to like sit down and like, yeah. Or wanting to throw myself into it because I know how I am. I wouldn't be able to half-ass facets. So Matthew Barry, this is fun. I appreciate it.

It's been a long time. I'm glad we were able to do this. Absolutely. Good luck on the OTT app. And thank you. Oh, download the, the wheels, by the way, a fantasy life app. If I can get one last plugin. Wow.

There's a fantasy life. Has anyone ever plugged? We're going to hit two hours with one more plug. Has anyone ever plugged more things ever in the history of the podcast? I'm a company man. You No. I'm a company man. You know that. I'm a company man. The Fantasy Life app

is 100% free and we get great alerts. It's like I work with this company and they're great. So anyway, but this was a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

Thank you. I appreciate it. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings for him. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings for him.