The Bill Simmons Podcast - Fantasy Football Tips, 'Mandalorian' Mania, and Kaepernick's Tryout With Matthew Berry and Mallory Rubin | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN's Matthew Berry for a fantasy football check-in after 10 weeks in the NFL season (1:50). Then Bill talks with Mallory Rubin for Mallory’s Most Intriguing, in which she shares her top five story lines of the week, including 'The Mandalorian,' Lamar Jackson vs. Deshaun Watson, Colin Kaepernick's upcoming NFL workout, and more (55:20), followed by a brief Million Dollar Pick (1:51:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're also brought to you by the Book of Basketball 2.0 podcast, which put up two new ones this week, both on Shaquille O'Neal, Pyramid podcast, and then a Rewatchables podcast, Game 4 of the 2004 finals, Shaq's last stand in the Lakers is last great game. In my opinion, broke both of those down with J a Don day. Check out that podcast. If you haven't already, I'm very proud of it coming up. We're going to talk to Matthew Barry about fantasy football through 10 weeks and a very controversial trade in my league. And then Mallory is most intriguing. We are going to actually talk about Star Wars

and Colin Kaepernick and a whole bunch of other stuff. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I think like four or five weeks ago when Matthew Barry was last on, we promised that he would come back around the 10-game mark to talk about where we were after two-thirds of the fantasy season. So now we're here, Matthew Barry on the line. We are 10 weeks into the fantasy season, heading into the home stretch.

Biggest surprise for you those first 10 weeks of anything? Well, that your fantasy team was undefeated. I think that was the biggest surprise for me so far this season. Yeah, that ended fast. I'm going for biggest surprise. I'm going the Lamar thing, working out whatever people had in their heads that drafted know lamar you know lamar jackson was a sleeper for me he was a sleeper for a lot of people but i think if you had said hey heading into week 11 the number one quarterback in fantasy is going to be lamar jackson i think i agree with

you that even the people that were like best case scenario was like best case scenario was like top five fantasy quarterback not beating the patriots you know right not not absolutely destroying you know a previously undefeated new england team so uh i they've been they've certainly been up there in terms of surprising i guess for me the biggest surprise is some of the people that have just been brutal i mean like yeah i was all you know I'll cop to this. I was all in on Cleveland. Yeah, me too.

I had bought the Cleveland hype. I had bought Baker and Odell Beckham Jr. And just how dysfunctional that team is, given the offensive talent it has, that's been a shock to me. Lamar has four 30-plus games out of the first nine weeks, which is, what's a typical, if a really good quarterback for 30

plus games, like four in a year, five in a year? Yeah. He's been over 24. He's really only had one bad game. He had 13 against Pittsburgh in week five. But man, what an advantage. And I'm with you on the Cleveland

thing, the Odell part of it. He got traded in my West Coast League. There was a three for two trade and Damoshek got Odell in the trade. He got two and Odell was like the best player in the trade. And a couple of people were really upset about it. This is unfair. And it was like, Odell sucked this year. He's the reason Damoshek is in the middle of the pack because Odell is averaging five points a game. And it doesn't even seem like they're trying to get him the ball. Yeah, he has one touchdown this year, Bill.

He has less touchdowns than Minka Fitzpatrick. Right. I mean, the whole thing in Cleveland is shocking is shocking to me back to Lamar for one second, then we'll get into Cleveland. But one other point I just want to make when you were talking about Lamar Jackson, here's the other thing that's insane about Lamar Jackson is yes, obviously the running is a big part of it, but you think about my homes is year last year and my homes was magical last year.

And it was, you know, the greatest fantasy quarterback season of all time. And we'll see if Lamar ends up beating it this year. But last year, at least with myomes, you were sort of like, you kind of got it right. Because it was like, well, it's Andy Reed who got it, who had a top five season out of Alex Smith the year before he's got Tyreek Hill. He's got Travis Kelsey. Like Mahomes is all sorts of insanely talented and just a special,

special player. But there was a lot of skill around him. You think about Baltimore, like Marquise Brown, Mark Andrews, like Willie Sneed. Like it's a, you know, it's, it's a much, much less significant amount of experienced talent than Patrick Mahomes had last year. And then also, you know, the watching it cause I have them on both leagues. I actually feel like he should have more points.

Like the amount of drops and just like... His receivers aren't really that open. There's no guy just... Yeah, I know. I'm with you. You don't see the Lamar highlights where there's just some guy like with Mahomes last year where Tyree kills 10 yards behind the defensive back, stuff like that.

Lamar is creating a lot of this, which has been so fun. It's been unreal. And the other piece that's sort of crazy about this, and I've seen other people make this point as well, so this is not my point, but the crazy part is, so first off, Lamar Jackson went at the end of the first round. So 31 NFL teams passed on him, including your Patriots. Yeah.

Which I think a lot of people thought that they would, they would take him. We were upset. Nephew Kyle and I, we were going nuts. We wanted him. We thought he fell to us. Didn't happen. Yeah. I would, I would have loved the, although the Redskins probably would have screwed him

up. But yeah, so he went later than I think people thought and then kudos to the Ravens for basically they had always been sort of this, you know, drop back pocket offense with Joe Flacco and John Harbaugh and Greg Roman, who's, you know, very

talented play caller and has at every stop of his career gotten lots, you know, got certainly gotten fantasy production out of mobile quarterbacks, you know, whether it's whether it's Ty quarterbacks, you know, whether it's Tyrod Taylor or, you know, some of the other players that he's worked with, right? But he has, you know, they changed their entire identity. They were like, look, we've got a talented kid here. We're going to get rid of Joe Flack and we're going to just go all in on,

we're going to fit our offense to highlight what Lamar Jackson does well, as opposed to trying to fit this player into what we do. We're just going to, we're going to completely change our offensive system. And you think, well, no, duh,

that's obvious, but I feel like more NFL teams than not. Don't do that. They do the opposite of that. Yeah. And that was the case for taking them in August, right? Because all of the pieces

where we have crafted this offense around Lamar. And I actually wonder if that's why the Patriots didn't take them. And, and, you know, we'll, we won't know if Lamar could succeed in like a traditional conventional offense, like what the Patriots have, or they're just doing all the typical quarterback things. Um, but maybe Belichick was looking at it and going, if I'm fitting him into a Tom Brady offense, that's not the best way to use him. If I was going to have him, I'd want to recreate the whole offense around him,

and I can't do that because I have Brady. So what Harbaugh did I thought was great. I think from a fantasy standpoint, like Kyler Murray's had a sneaky good year. If you look, he's probably, I think, in the top 12 overall. And he's definitely come on the last couple of weeks. I thought the year that part of him, the weird part on Kyler Murray is that he's been more of a floor player than a ceiling player. Meaning like he always gets you a good amount of production, but he hasn't had like, you know, the kind of crazy games that we've seen from some other quarterbacks.

We haven't just seen, and you sort of expected that from him. Like you thought that he would have some Lamar Jackson type games where he's, you know, he's running for a couple of touchdowns and he's got a couple of touchdown passes and he's got, you know, 400 something total yards all in. And we just haven't seen that yet.

But when you look at his game log, it's the kind of season that I thought maybe Lamar would have where there's going to be some weeks when, you know, you throw for 200 yards and you don't really rush for anything. I think what's been crazy about Lamar is just having one bad week out of nine. I did not expect. I thought it would be way more up and down considering how dependent they were on him. And also just defenses going into Baltimore games going, if we take down Lamar,

we take down their offense, but it just hasn't happened. He's still getting his points. Well, and I mean the Patriots, like that was the thing that, that, that was crazy to me was I,

I had Lamar Jackson for the first time all season. I had him outside my top 10 going into the Patriots game. And I was like, look, I get it. I said, but you think about Bill Belichick versus a second-year quarterback. I'm going to take Bill Belichick.

They have spent their... They have had success against mobile quarterbacks. We looked at this study of what Belichick-led defenses had done over the last couple of years against quarterbacks that had gotten a decent amount of their fantasy points from their legs. I'm like, look, he's going to be like we'll take our chances really sneak he's they're going to

contain him and you know I mean Lamar Jackson just punched him in the mouth I mean that was that was so eye-opening to me because you expected fantasy points you know maybe not number one player in fantasy but again sleeper for me sleeper for a lot of people coming to the season. But when he honestly embarrassed Belichick's defense, you're like, holy mackerel. To me, you know, like, holy crap. I benched him in both of my leagues that week because I just thought, oh, Belichick's going to take him out.

It was the opposite. Another surprise for me, Dak Prescott's fourth overall in fantasy points right now. He's been great. And, you know, obviously his contract was such a big story going in. I think what was really crazy about last week was it was the first time I watched a Cowboys game where it was just kind of like, let Dak cook.

What are you doing? Let this dude do his thing. Because I don't feel like when I watch the Cowboys, I don't feel like they totally know what their identity is yet. And they seem caught between these two personalities. And for me, it just seems like the logical personality for them is just to let Dak go. So I was looking at him as somebody these last six weeks

could actually go up. What do you think about that? Well, look, Dak was... If you look at Dak's numbers last year, like from the Amari Cooper trade on, Dak, I want to say, was the ninth best quarterback in fantasy off the top of my head.

From the Amari Cooper trade on last year, he finished the year as the ninth best quarterback in fantasy. And so his production isn't that surprising to me. But I agree with you on sort of the split personality of the team because I agree, you know, Dak is a special player and, you know,

listen, I think Michael Gallup is really nice player. I'm amazed at what they've gotten out of Jason Witten this year. We know all about Amari Cooper, but they paid Zeke $90 million. I mean, that's, I wonder how much of that is.

It's like we paid this guy for the longest time. We've always been sort of very run heavy and the offense has been centered around Ezekiel Elliott. When he was holding out in the preseason, I remember one stat we talked about the fact that was that I think the year before Ezekiel Elliott had accounted for over 36% of the Cowboys yards from scrimmage. Like by the far, the most of any player in the NFL,

like in terms of one player, highest percentage of their team's yards from scrimmage. And so Zeke had that. And so, and honestly, Zeke look like Zeke to you? Like he feels like a B plus version of Zeke these days. Doesn't seem, I agree with you all the way the same. And, you know, you look at... Where were we at the beginning of the season?

It was McCaffrey, Kamara, Saquon, Nick Chubb, my guy. Well, Nick Chubb wasn't really in that mix. No, but he was for me. I was the only one who had that mix. All right, there you go. So kudos to you. But the general consensus was Barkley and then somewhere, depending on when you drafted and where Zeke was in his contract negotiations,

the next three were sort of interchangeable between Kamara, McCaffrey, and Ezekiel Elliott. I mean, I'll cop to this and I'll say I think I had Barkley one, Zeke two, McCaffrey three, Kamara four. I flip-flopped between McCaffrey and Zeke, depending on when you caught my rankings in the preseason. But those were my top four. And then I had David Johnson at five, which has not worked out.

But it's been a, you know, I think that's been somewhat injury-related. He was good until he got hurt. And then Le'Veon Bell was a guy that went top six as well for a lot of people. All right, so you just listed six guys, and only one of them has totally panned out, McCaffrey. McCaffrey is 25 points ahead of everybody else for running backs. But the rest have been injury. McCaffrey's having an unbelievable year,

but the rest have at least some injury. Maybe not Zeke, but Barkley missed some time. Obviously, Kamara missed a couple of weeks there. David Johnson's missed some weeks, and he's out there on one leg. It's clear that he's not healthy. Weirdly, the healthiest guy of all of them is Le'Veon Bell, who coming into the season

had played all 16 games only once in his NFL career. And that was in 2014. My point though is every year this seems to happen where we have a top five or a top six and everyone basically plays Russian roulette with these running backs.

Yep. And three of them get hurtlette with these running backs. Yep. And three of them get hurt. Two of them are in the wrong offense. And then one pans out like McCaffrey did. And I wonder if we're doing it correctly because, you know, as, as we've said multiple times, if, if you're in a draft league, um, I'm sorry, you're so dimwitted and you don't have the high enough intelligence to be in an auction league. But even in an auction league, the top six guys that people spend money on are usually running backs. Right.

And to basically say every year I have a one in six chance of hitting a big here doesn't seem like a smart move to me. Yeah, but where else are you going, right? I mean, because you could do that with any position. Think about the top wide receivers for a second let's put that argument for aside for a second and then think about the top wide receivers so of the sort of top seven of the big seven that went so Tyreek Hill got hurt and he's been great since he's been back but he he missed like the first half of the season uh you know Michael Thomas has been great but Juju's been brutal. Antonio Brown, that's been a disaster.

Hopkins has been a bummer. Hopkins for the kind of talent he has. Hopkins has been a bummer. Keenan Allen is Keenan Allen since week four is wide receiver 56 on a per game basis. I think he's I think he's genuinely hurt, though. He might be. Yeah, but whatever. Whether he's hurt or the Chargers offense

is broken or whatever the reason is, he hasn't returned value. We talked about Beckham earlier in the show. It's a murder. Devontae Adams got hurt as well. It's basically the same ratio of return

in terms of... But my point is, maybe it just makes no sense whatsoever to spend over $35 on anybody. And maybe you're just better off doing... In an auction, maybe you're just better off being in that $15 to $24 range and hoping to just load up on those guys over... You spend $58 on Odell Beckham. That's true. And for what he's doing now,

you've just crippled your team. Yeah. I mean, sure. But the, the, the counter argument to that is, is that that means that,

right. You, you, instead of $58, you take three shots and maybe you have a better chance at one of those guys popping, but you're also like sort of sifting through the, you know, the middle. I mean

like, you know, he wasn't for me, but like Dante Pettis was a big sleeper for a lot of people like that hasn't worked out. Right. You know, for receivers at that $20 Ridley was a lot of people loved Calvin Ridley this year. He's been very inconsistent. So, you know, you go, you can

you can do that, you know left and right right i mean like there's been disappointments at every at every position at every um at every level right and so i think your your argument is is that there's less risk at least that like if if if at 58 dollars odell beckham jr bangs uh you know out, it's much more devastating than if he spent $17 on Dante Pettis and he doesn't pan out. Yeah, if I spend $22 on Godwin, $17 on Pettis, and $18 on Julian Edelman, and I go two for three versus the $58 on Odell.

I'd be surprised if you could get Edelman for $18 coming into the season. But that kind of range. Right. That sort of range. 18 on Curtis Samuel. Right. Who are you buying heading forward into these stretch weeks that have not been awesome yet, but maybe

have the chance? Like, for instance, a man in New England by the name of Thomas Brady. Yeah. Is that somebody you could see coming on down the stretch? Because this is usually when November is usually his month. So yes, the young unknown Tom Brady. Yeah. That frisky kid from New England.

Yeah, exactly. The sleeper Tom Brady. Sure. Look, you're never going to count him out. Like my love list, my love hate column comes out later today on ESPN.com got to get a plug in and Tom Brady's on the love list for me this week against Philadelphia TB there you go TB 12 but weirdly if you look at what Tom Brady has done over the last couple years in terms of the fantasy playoffs

so weeks 14 through 17 he usually disappoints that the Patriots I feel like once it gets to December, go much more run heavy. Yes. I don't know if that's because the playoffs are coming, or cold weather, or Foxborough. I don't know what it is. But we've looked at it. For the last three or four years, wherever Tom Brady

was as a fantasy quarterback heading into the playoffs, he's been significantly worse. The year he was number one and the number one fantasy quarterback in the playoffs, I think he finished the fantasy playoffs as quarterback nine, something like that. Weeks where he was

or years where he was QB eight, he finishes QB 17 in the fantasy playoffs. For the next couple of weeks, sure, but 14 through 17 makes me nervous, although they do have a great schedule so who's your biggest this guy's about to make a leap guy as we head into the last three weeks well i listen you know they're on a buy this week but the giants have a very good

schedule coming up oh so you know could see uh could see golden tate uh especially with you know sterling shepherd out um darius slayton i think is going to be inconsistent because he's a rookie could see Golden Tate, especially with Sterling Shepard out. Darius Slayton, I think, is going to be inconsistent because he's a rookie and he's got a rookie thrown to him. But just watching that kid, he's a talented guy. I think the Giants found something in Darius Slayton. We've talked about the Jets and their

schedule coming up, and obviously Darnold's been very inconsistent. But I think Jamon Crowder, uh, Jameson Crowder has a, has a real nice schedule here coming up. I think he's pretty interesting as well. Um,

let me sort of think about Jameson Crowder. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, the obvious guys are the obvious guys, right? I,

I will say also, by the way, regression of the mean, like I have Odell Beckham, like I have a lot of Odell Beckham this year. And I also have a lot of Dalvin Cook. So that's been able to balance out Odell Beckham this year. But like, I think Beckham, I think Beckham ends the year on a monster streak here.

Wow. Yeah. Because I'm like right on the fence. I don't know if that's too hot takey or not, but their schedule gets so much easier. Like it's not a great matchup this week against Pittsburgh. Steelers defense is really kind of right on the ship, especially since the Minka trade. I think Beckham,

look, he's getting a bunch of ends. He's too talented. Baker's getting better. Their schedule gets a lot easier after this week. Yeah, I think Beckham has, I think Beckham is Beckham the rest of the way. I have Mayfield in my West Coast.

Been holding on to him. Well, not only has he been banished to my bench, I actually put him in the attic like three weeks ago. I just have him with some old sweaters. But it's crazy. This goes back to the whole stupid Browns thing and whether how much of it is hype

versus how much of it is reality. I'm afraid to wave them. I'd rather just keep them on my team and have them suck all year over waving him and having somebody pick him up in week 13. And then he goes on like a 30 point a week tear. I don't want it to happen. Yeah, that's the worst. That's one of the worst feelings in fantasy football. When you drop a guy, somebody else picks him up and he goes off. Yeah. I don't. And then, and then you

get the emails from your buddy. Who's like, Hey man, thanks for Baker Mayfield. He's like, fuck you. Right. Exactly. Uh, we're going to take it. Which, which league, the West coast league. Is that the one, uh, that you tweeted at me about the, uh, is that the one that where, uh, Rob Stone made the trade? Yeah. We're going to talk about the shady is that the one that where Rob Stone made the trade? Yeah, we're going to talk about the shady Rob Stone in one second. We're going to take one break. Hey, let's face it. Guys are terrible at taking care of their health.

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Rob Stone, who is in playoff contention, makes a trade with a three and seven team who has Russell Wilson on a buy and has three running backs. He has Dalvin cook, Sony, Michelle and Matt Brita. Um, Brita sort this week,

but okay. Yeah. So the three and seven team trades Dalvin cook for drew breeze. So stoner gets Dalvin cook. The three and seven team gets drew breeze. He has Phil rivers as well. Right. Going against Kansas City.

So it's maybe a five-point upgrade, but he loses Dalvin Cook. He doesn't even have three running backs. We had to start three running backs in our league. Okay. So he's basically going to get a zero or maybe one or two points from the Dalvin Cook spot because our league, you have to get to 75 yards

to get points for rushing. Wow. So basically, we all went nuts. And then Stoner, who tries to play the good guy card, I'm just this kid from the streets of Connecticut, but is as cutthroat as anybody with fantasy. I mean, he's really like, you know, he'll trade with somebody's corpse if he can win the trade.

Right. And so then we ended up, the commissioners vetoed it. And now we've been on a whole text chain all morning. Stoner's going nuts. He's really upset. It's great. All right. So the guy who the three and seven team is like, I'm an adult.

I should be able to make my own decisions. Fantasy is the best. Where else can you have interactions like this? Right. No, listen, that's great. And by the way, there's nothing better when you're not involved in the controversy. Yeah. So you're not the 3-in-7 team and you're not stoner, right?

But you're just in the middle of this email exchange or text exchange, this long back and forth about some trade or something like that. That's the best. And you just come in from the sidelines and you leap off the side rope and you're just yeah, you're just during the pot. Is Sal in this league? Is that the league? Sal's not in this league. This is the East Coast League. And we actually have the veto

system in this league where the commissioner, if he wants with one other person, they can just be like, we basically have a smell test that we had to put in for our friend camp in the nineties. Cause when he was out of it, he would just trade,

you know, Steve young for Marion butts. Right. So we had to like basically put in this rule and ever since it was kind of, there was a little bit of a code. Like if you're out of it, don't make a trade three and seven, you're not going anywhere.

So yeah, so it turned into this whole thing online and it's hilarious because I think all of us are 50 or older than that now. Right. So it's, if you think when you, when you get old, that this stuff isn't still going to be happening. Think again. Yeah, no, you get stupid, but all right. So I have a couple of questions about this league. Yeah. Is it a keeper league? Not a keeper league. Not a keeper league. Is there a punishment for last place? There is not, which is a very important question because my West Coast league does have the punishment where you have to pay for the end of the year dinner or lunch at a, at Shakey's, which is like a $250 pizza day. So, so people do care about not finishing last in that league.

Okay. So that's important as well. Is there any benefit to improving your record other than just sort of pride and you always want to try to play at the string because it matters to everyone? Is there anything else? Meaning that, do you get a better draft pick for where you finish or anything like that? It's pride only. And then here's the other piece. This is the league that we've talked about many times in the past where the top four teams make the playoffs. Right. And you get to keep the playoff guys and it just keeps going all the way through the Super Bowl.

Oh, yeah. You have to protect six playoff guys and then draft from the teams that didn't make it, which I still think is one of the great rules of all time. It's a very cool rule. But this is why Dalvin Cook is so important because Minnesota is going to be in the playoffs and they're arguably like an NFC title game team. And he is one of the top five running backs. He's certainly one of the best playoff running backs and going into the

playoffs, he might actually be the best playoff running back. So that's why we all kind of went nuts. Sure. So here's, so, playoff running back. So that's why we all kind of went nuts. Sure. So here's so so I think your league is going to be a little surprised by my ruling on this. Yeah. So and you you tell me if I if I've missed anything here. Yeah, but I would say just

in general hearing everything you've said it's an awful trade right? There's there's no logical reason why the three and 17 who needs to start three running backs, who doesn't have any depth behind Matt Brita and who has a viable starting quarterback this week in Philip Rivers should trade Dal Bay. Breeze has traditionally struggled outside, but Buccaneers secondary has been brutal. I think Breeze is a consensus top 10 play, and a lot of people have him top five this week. So in theory, Breeze should bounce back from last week and have a big game here. But just on the face of it,

because of the depth of the position at quarterback, and this is a one quarterback league, if you did a draft today, Dalvin Cook would go many rounds ahead of Drew Brees. Dalvin Cook would be a top three pick if you were drafting today for the rest of the season. Agree. So it makes no logical sense.

So I think that it is this three and seven team, I would say there's a reason you're three and seven. It's like there's literally no way to justify the trade yeah having said all that i would not have vetoed wow okay why because what what you just told me this guy you have to let people coach their team even if it's badly i can sit here and you can sit here and a lot of people can say like i don't understand why you would do that. That makes no sense to me. But if the guy is sitting there in the text chain going, look, hey, I need to coach my team the way I want. This is why I did this trade.

If he can come up with any reason why he did it, even if you don't agree with the reason, even if it's just like Rivers always stinks against against Kansas City, and I think they're just going to run the hell out of Melvin Gordon the way that Tennessee did, where they just gave the ball to Derrick Henry a bunch of times. That's the way you beat Kansas City, by the way. We saw it with Marlon Mack. We saw it with Derrick Henry. Just run the hell out of the ball. So I don't think Rivers is going to throw it, and I think I can find somebody in the waiver wire, and I'm worried about

Dalvin Cook getting hurt. Whatever the reasons is, whether we agree with him or not, if he has a legit reason, then there's no collusion and you can't, you can't veto it. You have to let people coach their teams, even if it's stupidly, even if it's badly, even if it's in a way that no rational person would do. And this is a guy that I assume has been in this league for a number of years. I know this, your East Coast League has been around forever.

So here's his defense. You guys know that I've won this thing three times in the last six years, right? If you think I need some sort of oversight or parenting with that track record, then what does that say about your fantasy abilities? Pretty good counter. That is a pretty good counter. That's a little mic dropy. Yeah, it was a little mic dropy.

I liked it. I mean, it's honestly one of the dumbest trades I've ever seen. You're going to take a zero at your third running back so you can upgrade by four points for one week before you start Russell Wilson again. Right. And he has Russell Wilson. Right.

Like I said, it makes no sense. But what was his defense? Did he have a football reason why he did the trade? I mean, like, track record is great. His reason was, I'm three and seven. I wanted to shake it up. That's a tough one. That's tough.

That's like Dylan McKay at 90210. I've lost all my money. I'm just going to become a drug addict. I want to shake it up. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't exactly pass the smell test here. Now, I have a question for you. I'm going to cause some problems in your East Coast League for you. Do you think,

because, I mean, I've known Rob Stone forever. I mean, not as long as you have, but I've known him for whatever, 15 years or something like that. And I don't know him nearly as well as you, but all my interactions with him have always been nothing but pleasant. Great guy. Great guy. Do you think he has done something shady here? Do you think

he has said something to this guy and said,, listen, I'll, I'll whatever. I'll give you half my winning. No, no, no. He wouldn't do that. Okay. Rob Stone. Great guy. Fantasy football brings the worst out of him.

Right. It just does. He would, he would run over family members to win his league. He just is very cutthroat. It's a, it's, it's a side of him that frankly i'm ashamed to tell america about he'll do whatever it takes that smiling guy you see in college football and soccer and you're like wow that guy seems like a happy nice guy i bet he has everybody's back he does unless he's in your fantasy football league and then he will gut you he will honestly

he will gut you i absolutely, he will gut you. I absolutely know people like that that are like 180 degrees from how they are in real life. But once they get into a fantasy league, it's just insanity. It's like they get to enter this new world where they get to be a bad person.

Yeah, it's like Breaking Bad. Kyle said it's like Breaking Bad. This fantasy football is Breaking Bad it's basically he's selling meth in New Mexico but on the side the best part though is the guy who was the original commissioner of the league Camp who used to

hand write out the standings and the scores and mail them out every week I won't say he's the most committed fantasy owner and every time we have some sort of controversy it circles back Um, he, I won't say he's the most committed fantasy owner. Okay. And every time we have some sort of controversy, it circles back where everybody starts making fun of camp. Stoner said, he, he texted, this is like at the end of a 300 text thread because camp

manages his team. Like he's on a ventilator ventilator. Are we allowed to conduct business with him? And then that led to a whole bunch of vent camping on a ventilator. And when he is on a ventilator 40 years from now, how will I know the difference with this fantasy team? Right. It's just,

he's always at the drive by shootings, but yeah. Right. And they cut to camp going like, what did I do? It's all about stores. Just get shot by And they cut to camp going like, what did I do? This is all about Stoner's crappy trade. Just getting shot by a straight bullet. I see both sides.

My thing is, I don't think a team that's out of the race should actually affect the fantasy title after 10 weeks when you really have no chance. That's why you have to have a trade deadline. Other than an unwritten rule, there needs to be a trade deadline

or there needs to be an incentive to keep trading open. So this Deep Dynasty League that I'm in that I mentioned actually the last time that Danny Kelly's in, right? So we're actually having this debate internally among ourselves about a trade deadline, which hadn't really been set up. And I'm of the camp like, why are we having a trade up. And I'm less like, I'm of the camp.

Like, why are we having a trade deadline? And I'm like, I'm in second place in this league. And, but they're like, well, cause you don't want somebody affecting.

I'm like, but it's a dynasty league where it's a dynasty league where you keep all 33 players for the course of their career. If you want. Yeah. So if, if you're a three and if you're a team that's out of it and you want to do a deal,

you should. We literally just had a deal last week where a guy that's in second to last traded Tyler Lockett to the first place team for all of his draft picks in 2021. Some scrub

and all of his draft picks in 2021. Four draft picks in 2021. a four draft picks in 2021. We do a four round rookie draft every year. So, and like, I didn't love the trade. I actually thought if he'd put Tyler Lockett up on the, uh, on the block, he'd have gotten a better offer, but whatever, like that's a guy that realizes he's not going anywhere. And he felt like this is the best offer he could get for Tyler Lockett. And, you know, I'm, I'm basically competing with this first place team.

So I was annoyed by it, but fair deal. And so we're having this argument. But my argument is, hey, if you're going to be trading, like, because it will always affect your team. Right. I mean, like, because, yeah, that guy's going to, he loses Tyler Lockett. He's tanking, but he's playing for, you know, it's a dynasty league.

So he's fortifying. He got draft picks for next year and for 2021. When is the right time for a trade deadline? Because in my opinion, it's either after week 8 or just don't have one at all. Oh, I would go deeper than that. I think... If you're not going to have it after week 10,

then just don't have it. No, I think week 11 or 12, after week 11 or week 12 right so I I think usually I think the standard ESPN trade deadline is next week I think it's after week 11 like so heading into week 12 so you actually have because most playoffs start week 14 so you have two weeks you can you can you know you end it by then and so there's uh you have two weeks until the playoffs and then you've got the playoffs so teams that are out of it can make a deal

and you can make a deal going to the stretch run but again I think there needs to be some incentive for everyone you want people to keep playing whether it's to avoid a last place punishment whether it's your draft order like I've been in leagues where the draft orders determine like

say six teams make the playoffs, right? Yeah. So the number one pick the next year goes to the seventh place team, not the 12th place team. So that like you, the idea would be is that you want to keep playing that, you know, seventh place gets pick one,

eighth place gets pick two and so on and so forth. So that you at least even in a redraft league, so that it gives you some incentive to keep playing throughout the season because even though a team's three and seven and they're out of it if they're playing a team that you're competing with for the playoffs you want that three and seven team to field a good lineup right you want

them to try because it matters to you you would like you don't want teams that you're competing with to have a layup right can we do a quick buy and sell before you go? Yeah, let's do it. And we'll make this legitimately quick.

Cause I want to save two minutes at the end and talk about the 90210 reboot. Okay. Yeah. Buy or sell. Josh Jacobs. Here's the case for selling huge workload already did not face this kind of workload in college. And he's on pace now for

300 carries and 25 catches and especially this is a team that's potentially a playoff team. Are you buying or selling? I am selling that statement. They want the argument is that yes, he

never had this workload in college so he's fresh. Raiders offensive line has played well, and to get that kind of volume, like I have him as a top three play this week. He was my, Josh Jacobs was my preseason fantasy ride or die. The guy that I sort of planted my flag on, and I think people thought I was crazy about that, but I'm just like, guys, talented guy who's going to get an insane workload. I actually thought he'd be more involved in the passing game than he has been so far but it's not a schedule

that scares you coming up you obviously love him this week at home against Cincinnati and so no I mean I'm not worried about him hitting a rookie wall or anything like that so you're buying Josh Jacobs then I'm buying Josh Jacobs I was selling this I was selling the idea I got you that he's a

that he's quote a sell high or something like that. Are you buying Christian McCaffrey being able to do this for six more weeks? Yes. No question. Okay. Unequivocally. Casey's offense. Are you buying it the rest of the way as being the juggernaut that

we thought they were going to be heading into the season? Yes. I believe they I believe you sounded hesitant on that one. Yeah. I believe they, I believe you said it, you said it hesitant on that one. Yeah. I mean, look, they, they haven't looked exactly right. Um, but they also haven't had their pieces altogether. Right. So they, they haven't gotten the run game going the way they want it to.

And that's a little bit of a mess. But so I think in terms of the passing game, now that they have my homes, that they have Hill, that they have Watkins. I mean, without off the top of my head, I can't remember. I mean, maybe it's one game or two at the most where they've had what they want their starting lineup to be. Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Travis Kelsey, Patrick Mahomes under center.

Like, how many times have those four guys played in the same game together this year? I don't think it's many. So, because Watkins has been in and out of the lineup. I'm buying as well because I think Hardman is terrifying. Did you see that play last week when he caught a pass

and he had three defenders around him and he just kind of pressed the zoom button. He just was gone. And you're putting that guy on the field as your third receiver now with Kelsey, with Watkins and with Hill, and you have a nickelback

and you have a nickelback or a dimeback covering him, I actually think he's a sleeper down the stretch because it feels like he could have a 50-yard touchdown every week if he has the right matchup. He certainly could. I think he's going to be a better NFL player than consistent

fantasy player, assuming the health of Watkins and everyone else, just because like, I agree with you. I think between now and the end of the year, he'll have two games where he just has kind of monster numbers or, you know, at least one big play, but trying to figure out when those games are going to be,

especially because they liked to Marcus Robinson there and he gets some looks as well. And so, you know, Kirk cousins are eighth highest fantasy quarterback right now, almost has 200 points. He's been great recently. Yeah. He's looked shockingly competent for, I would say six straight weeks. Are you buying him the rest of the way? I am because here's the thing about Kirk Cousins. He is one of, if not the best, play-action quarterback in the NFL.

He is amazing off of play-action. And when the running game is working the way it is in Minnesota, and, you know, Cook's been a revelation, and adding Gary Kubiak to that staff, we talked about this in the preseason, has been fantastic. Madison, by the way, you know, I've said this for a long time, but anyone listening, Alexander Madison needs to be rostered in 100%

of leagues. Because Dalvin Cook, if anything were to ever happen to Dalvin Cook, Alexander Madison would be a top five fantasy running back. Anyway, so yes, I am. Look, he's been putting up numbers. Last week wasn't great, but he's been putting up numbers, even with week wasn't great but he's been putting up

numbers even with feeling banged up you know he's got a little BC Johnson out there the ghost of Laquan Treadwell like played well so I buy him I buy him as a top 12 ish guy the rest of the way

top 12 ish yeah that's what I would say they still want would say. They still want to be run heavy. I don't love the matchup at home this week against Denver. There's going to be... The schedule's okay. So yes, I would say off the top of my head,

ranking for the rest of the season, I think he's top 12-ish. Who is your number one defense the rest of the way? You know, Pittsburgh was, Pittsburgh's really coming on. They've been great.

I still think it's got to be the Patriots though, right? I mean, you know, off of the buy, like, yeah, I know their schedule gets tougher, but I can't imagine like if I were drafting today and the Ravens have really started to

come on as well. But if I'm drafting today, the Patriots defense is the first one that comes off the board. Who's second. Oh, Hey, this is interesting. What just gotten,

uh, just got an alert from the fantasy life app. I don't know if you've downloaded my fantasy life app yet. It's free. The alerts crush. Download it for two days, bill. And you will text me and say,

it's changed my life. Anyway, fantasy life uh app just sent me an alert bears coach matt nagy says david montgomery lightly rolled an ankle in practice yesterday they're gonna keep an eye on him for sunday night's game that is from brad biggs so uh that's what the app does is it it uh it covers like every reporter you've never you uh every you know you you know there's you you know the shepters and the mort's and yeah you know all the news breakers the big name guys field yates your buddy field yates

but it my guy yeah um but uh he is very funny uh when uh when field heard that i was coming on your show field texted me a whole list of things he's like hey just you know here's what's going on in bill's life recently you know he's just like he just turned 50 and like he's like, hey, just so you know, here's what's going on in Bill's life recently. He just turned 50 and he had a party and the whole thing. Anyway, he's a big fan. He's a big Simmons fan. I appreciate that. I'm going to have to have him on. You should. I have to ask you about Tariq Cohen then because

I think... They got rid of Mike Davis. Yeah. Well, Tariq Cohen is this year's winner of the everybody irrationally likes this guy and overvalues him, but he's fucking terrible. Has he ever had a good week ever? He's had one or two, but last year this year, he's been a significant

disappointment from last year. Honestly, that might be the more shocking thing. You know, we all dump on the Browns, but offensive genius Matt Nagy and the Bears, you know, who were whatever a, you know a chip-shot field goal away from going to the championship game last year.

They've been awful. Trubisky, his regression, the offense as a whole has looked brutal. Montgomery, Allen Robinson is the only startable piece of that offense. I know. I feel bad for him I mean I watched their offense and it's the same feeling I have when I watch the Browns

offense where they're trying so hard to be cute and inventive and it's just like just use your players normally just you have Nick Chubb just run him up the middle what do you like doing these delayed flip passes to him he's Nick Chubb. Just run him up the middle. What do you like doing these delayed flip passes to him? He's Nick Chubb.

Why are you sending him on these delayed pitches on the two-yard line when he's not Kareem Hunt? I don't get it. I don't get some of these coaches. It will be interesting. Bears play Rams this week, and that's two offenses to different degrees, but two offenses that we expected a lot out of this year and that just haven't,

haven't come together. I mean, I didn't ask you about Hopkins. Okay. He has as many points this year as DK Metcalf. Yeah. It's, it's been the touchdowns.

Like he's been fine, but he hasn't been Deandre Hopkins in capital letters the way you expect it. And it's weird because Watson's had a good year. Yeah. And the throne, it just, for whatever reason, that's just the, you know, that's another guy weird because Watson's had a good year. Yeah. And just for whatever reason, that's another guy that I think you could see just having a monster run down the stretch

because he's too talented. He's getting the targets. He's getting all the looks. It's just the touchdowns haven't been there for Hopkins. Are you a Jameis guy going down the stretch? I am. Me too. With my fingers crossed and my eyes kind of squinty closed.

I don't just kind of like, which closed. Like, you know, I don't just kind of like, you know, which is how you have to watch Jameis. But look, it's one of those things that like, just don't watch the games. The games will drive you crazy. Just look at the box score. That's a good idea. And then look at the box score after. Like, that's how you have

to have Jameis on your fantasy team. But Sal and I talked about him on Sunday. I have both Tampa receivers, so I watch basically all of their snaps on offense. Jameis is the most exciting player in the league. He really is. Every single play,

something great or terrible can happen. Every player in the field is involved in a Jameis play. All 22 guys. I wouldn't say exciting. I would put Lamar Jackson, Patrick Moments on there, but the most Every player in the field is involved in a Jameis play. All 22 guys. Yeah. All 21 guys. I wouldn't say exciting. You know, I would put Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes on there, but the most edge of your seat, nerve wracking guy in the NFL.

Maybe that's fine. Whatever you want to say. He's the only player in the league who involves all the players in the field, which I think is to his credit and his detriment. Yes. Yeah. I mean, and I don't know, is,

is Jameis Winston the starting quarterback of the Tampa Buccaneers next year? I think he, if you, if you just throw away the two terrible plays he makes every game, right. If you, if you watched a game tape of the Bucs and they just edited those two

plays out, you would think he was one of the best five players in football. Yeah. And then he'll have a play where he just goes back to pass and the ball just edited those two plays out, you would think he was one of the best five players in football. Yeah. And then he'll have a play where he just goes back to pass and the ball comes out of his hand and goes backwards 20 yards and they run it in for a touchdown. You're like, Oh,

that's what he does. Right. You're like, there, there are moments where you're like, Oh yeah, that's the guy, you know,

that's the Florida state guy. That's the guy that was, you know, drafted number one overall. And then there's another play that you're like, you know, that's the guy that, that was in a competition with Mike Glenn then there's another play that you're like, you know, that's the guy that was in a competition with Mike Glennon.

But here's the thing though. Some QBs are just unlucky. Because I've watched a lot of the Niners this year, including Monday night's game. Garoppolo has thrown 20 passes to the other team and they've dropped

15 of them, 14 of them? Yes. Insanely lucky. He is just as reckless with the ball as Jameis is. He just, for whatever reason, every time Jameis is reckless, it ends up being a turnover.

And with Garoppolo, it's just, he's that guy this year where you watch him and you're like, how does this guy not have 25 interceptions? Yeah. I mean, and by the way,

that's one of the reasons why I think Shanahan tries to protect him. Yeah. And mean, and by the way, that's one of the reasons why I think Shanahan tries to protect him. Yeah. And that's why they go so run heavy. There are a lot of people in NFL circles

that I have talked to that think Garoppolo may not be that much better than Nick Mullins. Yeah. That the 49ers on some level got very unlucky with Garoppolo. So many people thought,

oh, they totally got lucky because whatever happened with the Patriots, all of a sudden Belichick calls up and says, we'll give them to you for a two. And every team in the NFL would be like, oh yeah, you bet. And so they do it and he plays a couple of games and does well. And so they've got to sign into the big contract. But with sort of more of a sample size, there are people that sort of think, you know what?

They'd certainly be, it'd be a lot more cap friendly and they wouldn't be worse off if they had Nick Mullins under center. Whether that's true or not, I know that there are people, there are smart people in the NFL that legitimately believe that. So I guess we'll remain to be seen if that's the actual case. But it's interesting. We have to go. You're a very busy man. You have a lot of shit going on. Yep. But before we go they didn't bring our show back they got i know i've been unable to get a real answer on this one the

ratings definitely dropped for the 902 reunion it was critically acclaimed yeah multiple critics were like really nice pieces at the after the end of the run and being like wow this show is actually pretty fun and nostalgic and i'm interested to see where it goes and then fox was like no actually we're not that interested we've decided to cancel it so my guess is it was probably such a pain in the ass behind the scenes that fox was probably like we're good you may get out of it maybe but it also may not like you just don't know it may may not. First off, it just could be a bad decision. It could be in terms of how it's skewed. I mean, like, because you and I are basically 50 year old white men. I don't know that we're what Fox is looking for. You don't

think so? I don't. I don't actually. I think they're okay if we don't watch their network. So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, is the appeal, was there appeal for younger viewers or is it just nostalgic for people like yourself and me who just, you know, who grew up on that show and loved that show? But I have to believe it's such a passionate following for that show that one of these streaming services could pick it up. I mean, listen, hulu has all of the original 90210 yeah could you know could could disney plus pick it up could hulu pick it up one of these one of these streaming services the problem is um they didn't have any of the music

rights for the for the shows from the 90s okay they didn't they didn't realize any of the music rights for the, for the shows from the nineties. Okay. They didn't, they didn't realize they needed to do that. Right. So they have to like in Melrose place has this issue too. They have to dub me cleared music over the musical soundtrack choices they chose, which in the nineties, those shows were pretty hip with the music they took.

Oh, absolutely. And now it's like dubbed with this generic kind of elevator pop music. And I gotta be honest, it hurts recently on Hulu I have to do that it hurts it hurts just go spend Hulu how you more money than God I'm embarrassed to admit the number of times like I would hear a song on the radio you know and like someone would say like oh yeah that's a big hit I'm like oh who is that and they tell me I'm like oh I know who that person is because I saw them at the Peach Pit. They played

like two months before at the Peach Pit. So I agree with you. They actually did a pretty good job with the musical entity. So I'm very upset about this. I thought for sure it would come back or I'd hoped. We talked last time. I was just like, I'm a little nervous that it's on the bubble. Can the ringer do some last time I was just like, I'm a little nervous. It's on the bubble. Um, I hope, can we, can we start a, uh, can the ringer do some sort of, uh, you know, campaign here, you know, some sort of, uh, email campaign or petition, you know, I'll try to help amplify it. Like let's, can we take to the streets? Can we, can we light our pitchforks and, uh, torches?

I, uh, I think, I think it's gone. I think the body is dead. Here's my hope though. Maybe this will revive their interest in another sort of 90210E kind of idea. We can only hope. We can only hope. We can only dream. I thought it was very clever though. I agree

with you. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it and I thought it was a very clever way to do the reboot and I'm bummed. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it and I thought it was a very clever way to do the reboot and I'm bummed and I feel like, I don't know, a lot of people listen to your podcast, Bill. Come on, somebody that's an executive at a streaming service out there. Pick this thing up. Let's go. Chop, chop. You'll get my eight bucks a month or whatever it is the minute you announce that. By the way, I had three of my hungover college buddies

in town on Sunday, and we all were watching your show over the other pregame show. So congrats on that. I appreciate that. Thank you. People are into it. So keep it up. Drunk 50-year-olds, that's our target audience.

That's great to hear. I know that's a huge advertising demo right now. Apparently. But yeah, well, thanks. We definitely appreciate the support. We're over there on ESPN2, Fantasy Football Now, 10 a.m. Eastern, and you know, we don't get a lot

of love, and so any promotion is we appreciate very much. Matthew Barry, pleasure as always. Say hi to everybody back in Bristol. I will. Thanks, Bill. All right, we're getting to Mally Rubin in one second. First, let me tell you about Ray Donovan returning to Showtime this Sunday. Ray has navigated the mean streets of New York.

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To try a free month of Showtime, go to Showtime.com, enter code BS. Offers for first-time subscribers only and expires on December 31st. And since we're here, speaking of offers, turn your dream into reality with Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easier than ever to launch a passion project, whether you're looking to start a new business, showcase your work, publish content, sell products, and more. Squarespace is the tool for you with beautiful templates created by world-class designers and the ability to customize just about anything with a few clicks. You can easily make a beautiful website yourself. Squarespace's powerful e-commerce functionality lets you sell anything online.

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Hello. I thought of you this week. Oh, that's nice. Not just because we work together. There is a video online of... Lamar and Harbaugh? Harbaugh. Yeah.

Yeah. Talking to Lamar. Very special. Just was so inspired by Lamar's performance against the Bengals. Walked over to him and had like a sports movie moment with him and just really just wanted to tell him how special he was and that

kids were going to be wearing number 8 jerseys for the next 20 years and Lamar's kind of like I just want to make the Super Bowl coach and Harbaugh was just like look you don't understand this is really special what's happening here. It was really cool. It was a good moment. It was incredible. Lamar's response to the

line about how so many kids are going to be wearing number eight jerseys for the next 20 years. His exact quote was, I can't wait to see it when I get older, but right now I got to get to the Superbowl. Yeah. Unbelievable. Was that everything you, if Lamar had been holding a cat, maybe that's the only way it would have been more in your wheelhouse? As I told you, I recently discovered that Marlon Humphrey maintains an Instagram for his cat.

So maybe if Lamar had been holding Snowflake, Marlon Humphrey's cat, while also quoting lines from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, and then saying that, that would have really accounted for the bulk of my interests. And if then Harbaugh said, and I really think they screwed up the last season of Game of Thrones,

Lamar's right. You're right, coach. I just want to make a Super Bowl. I just needed Lamar to turn and say, coach, I just got to know one thing. How did Danny kind of forget about the iron fleet? And then it would have been perfect, Bill. That was all I needed. You probably would have had a stroke if he said that though. I don't think your brain

would have been able to handle that. It was really a lovely little moment captured. It seems very sincere. The affection that they have for each other seems very genuine. It's very moving. I find it inspiring. I'm all in. Yeah, it's funny. Mahomes last year, I felt like his approval rating was about as high as it gets for a football player. It reached like this weird Steph Curry level. And then this year, Lamar's approval rating in a weird way might be higher because he also gets to pull in all the people on social media and the sports

writers who were like, they said he should be a wide receiver. Look how stupid everyone is. And so he's even getting those people in. I don't feel like Mahomes had that crowd, the resentful, bitter crowd of just people pointing out how wrong everybody was instead of just enjoying it. Yeah. Mahomes had a small contingent of doubters that he got to, you know, lord his success over. Like there was the group of people who thought it was ridiculous to imply that the Chiefs should have moved on from Alex Smith and gone with Mahomes. Because of course, you know, we tend to, it feels like a different time in the world where this was possible, but Patrick Mahomes did not play as a rookie, right?

He backed up Alex Smith. There's that, and then there was, of course, the group of people who still were saying, you know, system quarterback when he was coming out of Texas Tech, which was, if you watched even a second of his tape, just objectively, patently absurd. So he had it a bit, but you're right. I mean, obviously with Lamar, it was a defining narrative around him coming out of the draft and out of his rookie season and even heading into this year.

It's just been a delight in every respect. Spoiler alert, I have a Lamar item coming for you today. Oh, I figured. Well, really, it was just Bill Polian and Booger McFarlane and like two other people, right? Was there more than that? It was more people than that. It was more people than that.

I'll tell you who won it, me and Kyle. You two have been there the whole way. Your team passed on him once. You don't deserve him. Took Hayden Hurst over him. That was a tough moment. You don't deserve him. That was a tough moment.

It's kind of been lost in the course of the Lamar Ravens history. Not to me. It hasn't. Because you flipped out when they did that. Yeah, I did. But it all worked out. It all worked out. All right.

What did you do? Every week you do Mallory's most intriguing. And then Joe House comes on and do million dollar picks. But all worked out. All right. What do you do? Every week you do Mallory's Most Intriguing and then Joe House comes on and do Million Dollar Picks but Joe House has a real life. He couldn't come on today. Oh my goodness.

Yeah. I had no idea. He has a real job sometimes. Unbelievable. Yeah. Stuff happens. He wins one World Series and it all falls apart.

I replaced him with Matthew Barry. It's fine. Guess what America loves? Fantasy football. It's true. It's all good. It's true. Guess what America loves? Fantasy football. It's true. It's all good. It's true.

How are your fantasy teams doing right now? They're both very good. Thank you for asking. I have a decision to make. Yeah. This is not one of my items, but I need to decide right now if I'm going to trade Odell Beckham

or if I'm going to stick with it. So we had in my league last week, somebody finally gave up on him because it's one of those things. You hit that. Matthew Barry and I just talked about it that weird because I have Baker Mayfield on my West Coast team and I want to wave

him and just get him off my team but I don't want to wave him because if I wave him and then he's good I'm going to feel like the biggest asshole in the world so you're just kind of stuck with these guys that are just killing you. It's a very unpleasant thing. I had the

this league where I have Odell killing you. It's a very unpleasant thing. I had the, I had the, the, I mean, this, this league where I have Odell, it was a snake draft, unfortunately not an auction. And I had my picks at the turn at the back of the first round. And I took Julio and Odell back to back. And it's been, uh, candidly a debacle. I am amazingly currently in the final playoff position, but I feel like I can't afford to lose again if I'm going to make the playoffs. And Odell is every week I look at it and I just can't believe it's my life. But I want to root for him.

We're taping this mid-afternoon, so by the time people hear this, Odell will have already played. My guess is it won't go that well against the Steelers secondary, but we'll see. Minka. Minka out there.

Man, love Minka. I'm glad you brought up Minka because I keep talking about how they should have done a top five protected pick and apparently you're not allowed to do that. That's the wrong sport. In the NFL. But it still feels like you are allowed to do that.

Just the rules have to be different. I've been saying wrong sport every time I've been listening to you say that, driving, but that's okay. No, but you can do it. It's just a little different than how you do the NBA. It is different. It could, basically,

it would revert to a second round pick immediately. And that's, that's where it becomes less appetizing for Miami because they were being offered real number ones. Steelers

might make the playoffs. Yeah. That trade worked out. They're like 22nd in DVOA. Doesn't seem like their QB. I don't even want to talk

about that because tonight he might throw for five TDs what do you have what do you have for your most intriguing before we do football yeah let's start with a pop culture item

number five the Mandalorian is here at last yeah people Kyle people seem like they really like it Kyle did you did you listen to Binge Mode yet

on the Mandalorian no the podcast is three times the length of the actual episode of television. How long is the podcast? An hour 45. Hour 44. It's not that long. You guys liked it, right? It was great. Awesome. I loved it. You know what helps when you launch

Disney Plus is to have an awesome show that people want to watch. It was so fun, so good. And then the really cool thing is we get episode two tomorrow. Yeah. Like already we get it there are two episodes in the first week the whole first season they stole this model from the book of basketball 2.0 podcast they were like look at what simmons did we should steal this for mandalorian it's

really cool to think about in a couple different ways the streaming wars with the seemingly instant success of disney early reports, 10 million subscribers. Oh, I think it's even higher than that, yeah. Climbing rapidly from there. Also the macro, what is Star Wars storytelling in 2019, 2020, because we're coming off kind of a shift. You know, it looked like for a while we would be heading into this era of anthology filmmaking.

We had Rogue One, we had Solo. All these other things were in development, but Solo didn't do well, though that movie is underrated and I would love for people to give it a second chance. Boba Fett movie, canceled. Benioff and Weiss, not doing their planned trilogy. A lot of the creative mindshare, obviously Rise of Skywalker, the end of the Skywalker saga is coming in December, but it's about the live action television shows now. You know, we have, in addition to Mandalorian, a Cassian show, Cassian, a character from Rogue One, is in development.

We're getting, we found out. I don't know who that is. Really? Did you not see Rogue One? Which one was that? No, I don't think so. Oh, boy. I've only seen the first three that came out in the 70s and 80s.

That's not true. you've seen more than that no that's honestly true I was never a Star Wars guy so if I say to you I don't know who Cassian is I have the high ground you don't know what I mean no if I say we sigging a podcast

you don't know what I mean boy Kyle this is tough we should make Bill do a Star Wars marathon with us anyway the point being in a podcast. You don't know what I mean? Nope. Boy, Kyle, this is tough. We should make Bill do a Star Wars marathon with us. Anyway, the point being, we're getting an Obi-Wan Disney Plus show. Remember him.

I mean, who doesn't? All of these television shows are in development and it was important that Mandalorian resonate and succeed and it couldn't be a more auspicious start.

And in addition to just the state of Star Wars storytelling, the show itself is awesome. And I think it's really cool to expand what Star Wars stories are beyond the Skywalkers. And that comment is sacrilege to some people, which I see you, I acknowledge you,

you're all entitled to your own opinions, that's fine. We don't all have to agree. But to me, one of the best things about fantasy and science fiction stories is the idea that anybody can make a difference, right? Anybody can do something impactful and cool. Anybody can become the hero and make the choice that matters. And broadening the scope of focus helps to solidify and reinforce that theme in a way that I think is important and cool.

You should watch The Mandalorian. You'd like it. Pedro Pascal, The Red Viper. I'll be interested to see if my son gets into it. I was very impressed by Disney Plus. Yeah, it's great. And then like some ESPN people tweeted about it and everybody got upset

because everybody has to just get upset about everything in 2018. And it's like, what are you guys upset about? Disney Plus is awesome. It's very cool. Have you clicked on it? It has like every Disney movie ever. It's very cool. Have you clicked on it? It has like every Disney movie ever. It's very cool.

My son went nuts. It's the Simpsons and Pixar and Marvel. And it's like 60 bucks a year. Like, what the fuck are you guys complaining about? It's delightful. I love it. You can literally just have Disney Plus and not have any of the other streaming things. You'd be fine.

Plus you get Disney, Hulu and ESPN. It's like 12 bucks a month. Yeah, that bundle is pretty good. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Why are people mad? I don't know. People just want to be mad.

People seem happy. Oh my God, Adam Schefter did a Disney Plus tweet. I'm so upset. It's like, who cares? Do you honestly care what Adam Schefter does? If he walked into your living room, would you care? Probably. He'd be like, oh, cool.

That's Adam Schefter. I'm going to ask him if this Kaepernick thing's you care? Probably. He'd be like, oh, cool. That's Adam Schefter. I'm going to ask him if this Kaepernick thing's real. I'm not going to be like, hey, I wonder what he thinks about Disney Plus. Who cares what he thinks? Nobody. You wouldn't talk to him about Michigan? No, I'd talk to him about football because that's what I care about with Adam Schefter. Do I care about his thoughts about Disney Plus?

No. Okay. So you didn't watch The Mandalorian. No. Okay. So you didn't watch The Mandalorian. No. You're not ready to engage with me about the twist ending about Redacted. But... I had a fun game for you to play because I figured you'd bring up Mandalorian. Okay. Keep in mind, I know nothing.

Okay. I didn't see the last six movies. Five movies? It depends on if you're counting Rogue One and Solo, because then it would be seven. You wouldn't have seen the prequels, the two new ones, or the anthology films. I know nothing. I read nothing. Okay.

Are you about to spoil the end of Mandalorian for people? No. Okay. I don't know what Mandalorian is. Okay. So here are my guesses. Okay. So Mandalorian can either be a character that could be like his last name.

Don't, don't spoil it for me. Okay. It can either be his last name. It could be a planet. It could be like one of those flying, what do they do? The flying saucer things to have spaceships.

They do not call them flying saucers. Just spaceships. What about like, don't they have those little mini things that fly speeders? This is great. Swoop bikes? Swoop bikes, whatever. Well, I can talk about Star Wars ships with you all day.

Or it could be like a political party. You want to talk about an X-Wing? A TIE fighter? A political party like the Mandalorians have taken over. Okay. So what is it? What is Mandalorian? You were closer than you might think, actually.

Mandalore is a planet. Oh, I should have guessed that. And the Mandalorians are a people. And the lead character, Pedro Pascal, is currently unnamed character. This is one of the things that I think actually, this is my sincere pitch to you. I think you would like it. Jon Favreau, who's making the show, it's the Western homage and Western tropes. And also, as Jason Concepcion pointed out on Binge Mode, the samurai tropes and nods are very, very, very present throughout the

storytelling. So a lot of the characters on the planets that we've seen so far are unnamed. A lot of it is about the idea of this new frontier and what identity means. So the main character is the Mandalorian. He's wearing the Mandalorian armor, the iconic, you know who Boba Fett is. If I say Boba Fett, you can conjure an image in your mind, right? From the original trilogy, Boba Fett? Cool helmet. Come on, the signature T on the helmet? You know.

If I showed you Boba Fett, you would know. I honestly don't know. I'm sorry. Well, he, Boba Fett, and Jango Fett from the,

now we're getting deep into it. It's hard to. He didn't read the books, Mallory. He doesn't know. Jango Fett. Jango Fett. Jango, yeah, Jango Fett. Bounty hunters.

And so this character, the Mandalorian, is a bounty hunter. And we don't know much about the motivation yet but rogue agent out there hunted the bounties as a bounty hunter hunter does right dog no are there animals on the mandalorian planet well i I mean, certainly. In the first, well, he wasn't on Mandalore. He's out there flying the Razorcrest. Oh, Mandalore is the planet.

Mandalore is the planet. And the Mandalorian is out there pursuing his bounties. And the animal, he ran into a couple Blurgs. There were some Blurgs in the first episode. Blurgs are creatures that you don't, do you want to know what Blurgs are? Probably not. We'll move on past Blurgs. the first episode. Blurgs are creatures that you don't... Do you want to know what Blurgs are? Probably not. We'll move on past Blurgs.

We're deep diving too much. Was Mandalore in the first three movies? Or did they make that up? Did Jon Favreau, they're like, we're going to do this, come up with a new planet? Mandalore is established canon. If you're interested in learning more about Mandalore, I would highly recommend that you check out Clone Wars,

the animated series. You can learn a lot more about the politics. Mandalore, a lot of war, a lot of strife. The Mandalorians are fabled warriors. A lot of conflict with the Jedi over the years. Part of what was so interesting about this first episode is Beskar steel or metal was introduced. It's like the Valerian steel of this story to give you a comp. So now I understand. And part of the reason it matters is because it's so strong that it can withstand the glancing blow from a lightsaber,

which is unbelievably precious, but also it represents something about Mandalorian people and identity. I really liked it. Also, it was 39 minutes. That's another sell for you. 39 minutes. A crisp 39. And that included credits, Bill. That included credits.

Wow. Mandalore. Wonderful. Mandalore sounds like. That included credits. Wow, Mandalore. Wonderful. Mandalore sounds like a casino in Vegas. Yes, it does. It's like, where'd you go last night? I went to the Mandalore. I lost $200.

Mandalore Moon. There was also, I won't say what it was because I don't want to spoil it for people, but the end of the first episode was really exceptional. An incredible twist and hook that connects to the story in a way that people who have really any exposure to Star Wars would be like, holy shit. Right, Kyle? Yeah.

Awesome battle scenes, too. Fucking incredible. Yeah. It was great. Okay. All right. Check it out. I'll watch it with Ben Simmons.

He'll like it. Don't you think Ben will like it, Kyle? Yeah, yeah. It's like kind of hyper violent, actually. Sean described it, and Mike also on our site, as justified with blasters. Like, it's a gunslinger show. Yeah, it. It's like kind of hyper-violent, actually. Sean described it, and Mike also on our site is justified with blasters. Like, it's a gunslinger show. Yeah, that's sweet.

Is it going to lead to Ben demanding a lightsaber and then hitting me in the balls with it? Almost. If he gets a lightsaber, yes. Almost certainly. Almost certainly. There's a droid that shoots like 40 humanoids in one and a half minutes.

IG-11. It's great stuff. Anyway, next. All right, number four. Do the Rams have a pulse? Is there any hope left for the Rams? And at what point do we have to start thinking about where the Rams rank on the all-time Super Bowl loss hangover list?

Oh. That's where I am with the Rams. Heading into... The Super Bowl hangover is one of the most effective predictors that we have. And it's so simple we ignore it every year. I ignored it this year with the Rams. We all missed it with this team. We did.

But it's time to ignore it no longer. We're heading into a Sunday night football matchup. I'm calling up their schedule. I'm listening to you. The Bears are at the Rams. Yeah. That is a game that they absolutely have to win.

This is a game their defense should be able to win by itself. And now today there was word Montgomery sprained his ankle, twisted it, whatever he did. There might be a lot of Tariq Cohen in this game, the most overrated player in the league. Yeah. Yeah. How about do anything, Tariq Cohen? We all like the idea of Tariq Cohen, but he never lives up to the idea.

Part of it is how they deploy him, though. It's just we love little guys. We love little NFL guys. I'm excited to see Allen Robinson against Jalen Ramsey, a matchup of former Jaguar teammates. So they're five and four home Chicago home Baltimore. That's Monday night football here in LA. I can't fucking wait at Arizona home Seattle at Dallas at San Francisco home Arizona. I don't see it. I don't think they get to nine wins. Well, the thing is they're behind the Niners and the Seahawks in the division. The division is basically out of the question at this point. And there are too many teams in the NFC wildcard mix

if they keep playing this way for them to have a chance. They also, their offensive line isn't good. Well, it's a mess right now. And their QB isn't good when his offensive line isn't good. Yes. And you take those two together and their offensive line is actually worse than not good. And I just don't think he knows what to do.

I think he's the wrong quarterback for the team they have right now. Well, the problem with that very true and accurate statement is that he has the biggest cap hit in football next year, $36 million. So there's the question of where they are this year, but I think we all agree that the real question

with the Rams at this point is whether they can find their way back or whether it's already over because a year ago, this time a year ago, we were talking about this team as the new template for the league. It's over. Sal and I, we talked about this on Sunday. There's no coming back from this.

The amount of money they're spending on five guys, there's no way to fix this. You would have to hit a miracle in every draft on draft refrigerant thing. But that's the thing. That right there is actually the heart of it because it's not just that the cap space is tied up in a handful of players

and that some of the people it's tied up in aren't effective anymore, like Gurley. Obviously, injury is a part of that or Goff. It's that they can't hit on draft picks because they don't have them. That's what I mean. They'd have to hit like third, fourth rounders and undrafted guys.

They don't have, it's not happening. They don't have a first round pick again until 2022. Yeah. That's unbelievable. That's, that's really astonishing mismanagement. But the thing is Peter King wrote that piece and they're like bragging about

like, we figured out this new way to create a football team. We don't need first round picks. It's like, all right, I'm positive. That's not true. That's definitely not true. Guess what? Everybody needs first round picks.

Well, and as Kevin Clark and, and Mays and many other people have written, the most valuable thing in football is a quarterback on a rookie deal and they don't have that anymore. So. Well, I also think, I think as always, I like to think about the ringer in this situation. Sure. How much more fun would this be

if Goff didn't sign the extension and we could just figure out all these different things that might happen to him? He might even be, he might have even been a trade possibility at the end of October.

Can't move that contract now. No, they're stuck with him. There's no way to get rid of him. It's brutal. You would almost have to throw away a season and take the cap hit, put it on when, you know how they can rig it? Just be like, we give up this season. I don't think there's any way out for them.

And I can't believe they screwed it up this badly. And it all starts with the girly extension, which they didn't really have to do either. If they knew... These teams have to know there's something wrong with the guys. Nobody knows better than the team if like, yeah, Todd's got arthritis. You can't hide

arthritis. You would think not. Like with you, like you came in today. You were talking about... What were you complaining about when you walked in? You weren't feeling good. I'm being out of breath. You don't feel good. And if, if somebody was like, how's Mallory as a health bet for $120 million contract, I would be like, well, she was out of breath today. into the office. Yeah. I would know this because I work with you. That's not, that's a good note.

Note to self. Note to self. Catch my breath before walking into Bill's office next time. I immediately judged you. No, but like Todd Gurley, they're like, hey, Todd, how's the knee? And he's like, it just hurts. It hurts all the time. Bill, my knees are strong.

But imagine they're trainers with Todd Gurley. Todd, is it feeling better today? No, it actually doesn't feel any better. Right. So how do they give that guy a contract then? I don't know. And that's part of what is fascinating to think. It's kind of the ripple effect beyond just even their franchise

because the decisions that they've made and the kinds of decisions that they've made with the extensions that they've given, the trades they've made, the capital, either monetary or draft capital that they've moved, how they've tied themselves to certain people and for certain lengths of time. And then you couple that with things like they were kind of a poster team for the idea that health is a skill, right? That's something you heard about them all the time last year. Well,

that fades. And then when it fades and it's something that you can't count on as a differentiator, you're back in the pack. Well, where does that leave you? It's a mess, right? And then something like McVay, the innovator, the golden boy, everybody goes and tries to hire their McVay. Now everything, it's a copycat league, right? That's the point. And so the Rams, everyone was trying to model themselves off of the Rams because of the ways the Rams were succeeding.

And I think now an interesting thing to track is going to be, do teams start trying to avoid the mistakes that the Rams have made or do they not? Does it not have that kind of an impact? This happens in basketball, right? Where certain style, like the warrior style was so innovative and it was so effective

for them, mostly because teams didn't have the personnel to play it. Small ball, a lot of threes, sl and kick, all the stuff they were doing. But then over the course of a couple years, everyone started playing it and people got used to it. The way the Rams play now, to me, seems the opposite of innovative. Only recently did he even start trying to mix up formations. And some people on the internet have written good pieces about this.

But in the Super Bowl, he just stuck with the same formation the whole game. Wouldn't mess with it at all. I always thought the reason I think Belichick is the best coach of all time is the team's different every year. He doesn't have a system. There is no system other than he has depth, and he figures out what his team is for that year, and then they build the team around that identity.

I don't know if McVay can do that. We have no hint at all that he can create a different kind of offense. So it really seems like we just completely overrated the quote-unquote genius. It seemed like he had one great idea, but I don't know if he's a genius. I'm not ready to say that yet, but I think that part of

establishing your bona fides as a genius in the NFL or any other sport is that you have to be able to adjust when people adjust to you. Buddy Ryan. And so that's the next challenge, right? Remember Buddy Ryan in the late 80s? Yeah, absolutely. He was like, oh my God, what a genius. Then everybody's like, oh, here's what we do against that defense. And then that was it. Right. So innovation has to continue. Innovation is a one-time thing. So that's the question. I think that the way that this season has unfolded, it's not impossible for him to make changes now, but when you factor in how Goff is playing, things like how Goff is playing specifically on play action. That was an area of strength for them before.

Now it's a huge failing for the offense. Again, the way he's pressured right now because of the old line health, things like not having Brandon Cooks because of the concussion on and on and on the list goes. Those factors compound each other. But Brandon Cook's probably not coming back.

Maybe not. But then it's like, can McVay reset in the offseason? And what is the limit on schematic innovation when there's only, can McVay reset in the offseason? What is the limit on schematic innovation when there's only so much that you can do with the roster? That's a fascinating thing. I thought his mistake was not playing the

rookie Henderson. She's kind of holding on to this Todd Gurley thing, and Todd Gurley's just not the same. And they can't rely on him anyway. But this is a consistent theme across sports, right? Teams not really knowing what to do with the idea of a sunk cost.

Yeah. I mean, I'm an Oriole fan, right? And I'm not saying that Todd Gurley is Chris Davis. I'm not saying Todd Gurley is Chris Davis. He's not. That would be unfair and cruel. But Chris Davis continues to get at bats for a reason. Yeah.

And that reason doesn't make sense. The Red Sox did this with Pablo Sandoval. Just got rid of him. They're like, some cost he's out. And it actually was really smart that they did that way. It cost an incredible amount of money, but they just made the decision it's not happening. I don't think they have outs.

And I think they're going to go 7-9. I can't believe it. Yeah. And that division, I mean, the Se-9. I can't believe it. Yeah. And that division, I mean, the Seahawks and Niners are obviously outstanding teams this year. And the Cardinals, I think, are going to be really good really soon. Yeah. Kyler Murray's coming out a little bit.

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Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or in West Virginia, visit 1800GAMBLER.net or in Indiana, call 1-800-9-WITH-IT. Back to Mallory. All right, we're back. Three. This one's for you. right, we're back. Three. This one's for you.

Yeah. Super Bowl 52 rematch. Yeah. Why is that for me? I hated that game. Well, I guess that part's for me. The idea of revisiting a Patriots loss. But talking about your football team's game this weekend,

Patsy Eagles, how will the Patriots respond to their first loss of the season, Bill? It'll be fun. Both teams coming off a bye. I'm more upset that Flash played for the Seahawks and had two huge third down catches on Monday night. I thought of you both.

What the fuck, Kyle? Kyle, what did we do wrong? We didn't do anything wrong. We supported him. You wore his jersey every week. I did. And they quit on him because he missed a couple meetings. And then he's... Yeah wrong. We supported him. You wore his jersey every week. I did. And they quit on him because he missed a couple meetings.

And then he's... Yeah, they quit on him. Where did Russell Wilson go on third down? Oh, the guy who is always open for 12-yard catches. We talked about it on the pod a couple weeks ago that Seattle seemed like the most likely landing spot for him and that you could just... It was so easy to envision Wilson

immediately forming chemistry with him. The problem for them is they're going to get used to him. And that's what you can't do with Josh Gordon. He's day by day in life, in football. And it's like, if you start going, well, once we get to the playoffs, like you can't count on him, whatever he gives you as a bonus. Did you see that?

He said he was trending up in quarterbacks. He said that? He said that. Wow. That that. Wow. That hurt. Wow. That's like a direct attack of you. That hurt.

Wow. I didn't know what to do with that. Kyle. Boy. Well, he probably feels like Brady quit on him. Because the Pats definitely quit on him. The more we know now, they clearly said that's enough. So, yeah, my team is playing the Eagles.

How are you feeling about it? I just don't see how the Eagles will have any receivers that get open in this game. I've watched the Eagles all year. Their receivers don't get open. Jeffrey's hurt. Now he's got red flags next to him in fantasy. Day to day, unclear what his status will be. He's been hurt all year. He's an old

man. Deshaun Jackson obviously out. Yeah. So they're going to try to run the ball run the ball run the ball but also I mean Jordan Howard's on the injury report right now too so I mean giving the ball to Miles Sanders more is actually a good thing ultimately yeah but there's a lot of injuries on the offense for them and then I think the question of how effective can Zach Ertz be not only in this game, but in the final stretch of the season is pretty essential for Wentz and that offense moving forward. I don't think they're going to be able to move the ball. And I don't know if they're going to be able to have enough

of a pass rush against Brady, which is what you need to hurt us. I just, I like the matchup. I'm going to talk about a million dollar picks at the end. You're not worried. I like the matchup. I think it's a really good matchup for the Pats. The Eagles need the matchup. I'm going to talk about a million dollar picks at the end. You're not worried. I like the matchup. I think it's a really good matchup for the Pats. The Eagles need the game though.

They need the game. I just don't know how they're going to move the ball. Because the Pats secondary is so much better than the Eagles receivers. Yeah. I don't know how they're going to move the ball. Well, that's why Ertz is key. And whatever Sanders can do and whether Howard is healthy. Sanders is the X factor, right? If he has a monster game that will keep them in. And Sanders is somebody I think down the stretch just in for fantasy purposes and just

in general is on the guy to watch list. He's really explosive. He's awesome. What about Peterson as somebody who maybe has Belichick's number? I can't even say without laughing, but I did want to try. I wanted to see if I could say it without laughing, and then I wanted to see your face. No. Okay. I think he got hot at the blackjack table that one night.

Okay. That's how I learned to live with the Super Bowl loss. He's had a really good run at the table. That's good. That's a good self-preservation tactic. I'm interested to see how Brady plays and looks against this Eagle secondary, which is a nice source of rejuvenation for anyone who faces it. Yeah.

It would be amazing if the Patriots lost. If the Patriots lose, that's a really bad sign for the season. A couple losses in a row. This should not be a loss. Here's a really bad sign for the season. A couple losses in a row. This should not be a loss. Here's the schedule the rest of the way. They're favored by three and a half in Philly. At Eagles versus the Cowboys, at the Texans versus the Chiefs,

and then at the Bengals versus the Bills versus the Dolphins. So there's like a tough few games here in a row. Kind of can't afford too many stumbles. Because why? We're making the playoffs. What are you talking about? You don't want that number one seed no matter what? Or do you just think it's a lock? You fear nothing.

You're complacent. I just think, I think Baltimore played really well on a Sunday night. They got the lead early and they just played a really good game and stuff happens. I think about this in the context of my daughter's soccer career. Okay. She's they lost her team,

lost a couple of games this season to teams. They were just better than, and it was stupid. And you, and we're driving home. We're like, how did you, how did you tie that team?

You were like two goals better. And it's just like, that's the thing. It's sports. Shit happens. Amazing to see what the bye week did for you. You've gone from go on everyone,

bury the Pats to shit happens in sports. The Ravens are garbage and the Patriots should have won that game. I think the Ravens are good. This is what you just said. The Ravens are a good team. I don't think the Pats should have won that game. I just don't overreact to regular season games.

It's all about the playoffs for you. It's a very small sample size. It's 16 games of four-minute quarters and weird shit happens. That's where I've landed. Your team against Houston, I would say that's a more telling game. Well, that's the next one on our list here. All here Alright let's move to two because I think you should beat Houston They've lost a lot of dudes And you should be able to move the ball against them all game

And if you lose that would be alarmed Are you just Trying to get a rise out of me here You would be alarmed if the Ravens lost that game It would be an alarming loss Why would it be an alarming loss I just was trying to get a rise out of you. Come on.

This is crazy. You should win, though. You're favored by four. To me, the main thing about that game is the MVP showdown between Lamar and Deshaun. It's an incredible matchup if you're a fan of football. It's an incredible matchup in the year of our Lord, 2019. It's an approval rating showdown, too.

Absolutely. Two of the most popular QBs we've had our Lord 2019. It's an approval rating showdown too. Absolutely. Two of the most popular QBs we've had in a while. It's fun. People like watching Lamar and Deshaun play. People like rooting for those two guys. They're two of the, I'd say, top three players in the MVP race right now. And obviously Russell Wilson being the third.

I think Pat Mahomes certainly has time to get back into the top one, two, or three. But right now, just because of the time he missed with injury, just a shade behind them. Trubisky's last. Who? That's my response to that.

He's an MVP for the other team, usually, when the Bears are playing. Lamar already has the head-to-head win over Wilson. So getting the head-to-head win over Deshaun would be a nice little notch in the belt. I think, you know, to the point that you were making when we opened, talking about the Harbaugh video and just

how people feel about Lamar, I say this sincerely objectively. This is not a subjective fan statement. I think that this is true. I think that Lamar has the narrative lead right now in the MVP race. Oh, no question.

Right? And as you know, that's all that matters. Right. So it's about, can you hold on to that? The funniest thing about the NFL MVP is we care about it during the season. And then after the season, I can't remember who won. Like if you told me who's the 2016 MVP, I would have no idea. I did podcasts every week.

I totally cared about it. It's like we care with football. We care in the moment. And then when it's over, we don't go backwards at all. That's true though. I think part of that is because so often in recent years and the current modern era of football, the MVP results have just aligned with this elite class of quarterback. And there hasn't been a lot of new blood there. I mean, obviously Cam won, Mahomes won. So Cam has felt like a significant MVP win. That stands out to you, right? And Mahomes stands out to you. I think the results of this one could be similar. If any of those guys, Lamar Deshaun or Wilson won, I think it would probably feel that way. And also the fact that it does really feel like a race, and I think probably will through the rest of the season,

is a little different and fun. I mean, last year, I think there was a lot of, is it Breeze or is it Mahomes talk for the bulk of the season? But it was always going to be Mahomes. I mean, you don't cross the 50 touchdown threshold and not win MVP, you know? When Kevin Clark tweeted during the LSU game that Joe Burrow was older than Lamar Jackson, did you have to like take a walk?

No, because I knew it was true. Did you give Kevin Clark a spot bonus? I mean, it was shocking to see, but you also know it's true. I mean, Burrow was at Ohio State for three years, you know, transferred. He's been at LSU for a couple of years. That happens in college football.

Lamar is a prodigy. He's in his second NFL season and he's 22 years old. It's a delight. It weird that they didn't factor that into his NFL draft prospect part of it. Well, I mean, Baker was an old prospect and he went first. And so that was talking about him in the other direction. In the NBA, we, I say we because I'm an NBA guy, we factor in the ages in a real way. And sometimes to the detriment of the teams.

Like Dame Lillard dropped to six because he was 22. Right. Well, congratulations. I'm glad you have an MVP showdown. I'm really glad that all the joy Lamar has brought to your life. I just want it to last for as long as it possibly can. He's great. He's very likable.

Cherishing every second of it. I think seeing how the Texans run defense is able to account for what the Ravens can do on offense. Stop it. The Texans aren't good. You should win this game. I mean, unlike you, I do not operate from a position of arrogance and predestination. It's not arrogance. Texans aren't good.

I think I need to earn everything, and I think my teams need to earn it too. And I live in a, I live in a perpetual state of fear and I'm always readying for the letdown. You know, Bill, I was the kind of kid I would go home and I would say to my parents, man, I like probably failed that test. Cause that way, if I got an A, it was a delightful surprise, right? You always want to set the expectation here. And then all you can do is bring people joy. You never want to disappoint. And I don't want to allow anything that happens with this Raven season to disappoint me,

so I want to attempt to maintain some semblance of balance and patience and pragmatism. But also, candidly, I've lost the ability to grasp anything resembling rationality. Like, this team just has my heart fully. It's a really, it's really, I don't want to get carried away and regret this in a few weeks,

but just to this point, this has been one of the most satisfying and enjoyable sports experiences of my entire life. Like I found myself last week thinking, where does Lamar rank for me all time on my list of favorite athletes? And I think he might already be number two

for me for Baltimore athletes. I mean, Ed Reed is forever my number one. You're not touching Ed Reed. But I think Lamar has passed Machado. Because Machado is a traitor who left. I just have to move on with that part of my life. Yeah, it's not a bad idea. That pain was so fresh for so long.

Adam Jones is very special to me, as you know. It's a pretty motley list. Ed Reed being there for the Patriots game, it felt like a passing of the torch in a way that... I didn't like it. I thought that Pat should have complained. Get that guy off the field. Let's take a break and then we'll do number one.

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faster. Kyle, you put SimpliSafe in your apartment. I did. We had a guy rustling around in the back there and I slapped a sticker on my door and- And that was it. No problems. There you go. Nobody's stealing from Kyle. Go to simplisafe.com slash BS to get 25% off plus a free security camera. Yeah. This is the best home security deal you'll see. Don't miss this amazing Black Friday deal. SimpliSafe with two I's. SimpliSafe.com slash BS. All right, number one.

Let's go. Let's just do it. Number one. Let's go. What will come of Colin Kaepernick's workout? I think this is one of the most important things happening in sports right now, and we should talk about it. I agree.

So for anybody who doesn't know, just a little bit of background quickly. Kaepernick has a scheduled workout for Saturday. Yeah. In Atlanta. Currently, as of, again, we're recording on Thursday afternoon. So the latest information we have as of today is an NFL statement saying, quote, we are looking forward to Saturday's workout with Colin. 11 teams, Arizona, Atlanta, Cleveland, Denver, Detroit, Miami, New England, New York Giants, New York Jets, Tampa Bay, and Washington

have already committed to attend. Pats. We'll see how that list grows from here. The other latest information is that Hugh Jackson will be the one leading the drills, and Joe Philbin will be assisting. Oh. The NFL is reportedly sending video of the workout and the interview to all 32 teams after.

So Kaepernick obviously has not played in the league since 2016. This has been one of the central stories not only in the NFL but in sports since that time. Filed the grievance against the league. Subsequently settled it. We know the Kaepernick story. Okay. So what do you think of this? Let's just set it up.

Why was this so rushed? And is it legit? And what's going to happen? Why didn't they do this in July? That was my first question. Right. Why now? Right.

Why week 11? Right. The timing of it is just so bizarre to me. And then who is driving this? Is it Kaepernick's side? Is it the NFL? Is there somebody else? Some white knight that we don't know about? I don't understand anything about this. It's very strange. It's very, very strange. Yes. I obviously hope that- This should have happened in June. Well, it should have happened three years ago. No I'm saying like, if it was going to happen in 2019, what about during the off season

as people were putting together their teams? Right. So this is part of what is so bizarre about it. And there, there've been comments to that effect on the record from plenty of people this week, you know, Eric Reed, who obviously was Kaepernick is now with the, with the Panthers, but was Kaepernick's teammate with San Francisco protested alongside him. He said, quote, it feels disingenuous. He also said it feels like a PR stunt. Well, he also had the nine-inch knife quote, which I thought was great. The Malcolm X quote.

Malcolm Jenkins said, quote, it leaves me a little skeptical of the motivations behind it. Well, we don't know where it came from. There's more questions than answers, just even how this happened. So the various reports, including from Tyler Tynes on The Ringer, indicate that the NFL, the league office, Goodell, reached out, not Goodell directly,

but the NFL league office facil facilitated this reached out to kaepernick's team on tuesday morning tuesday of this week and said we want to set this up for saturday you have to tell us today if you're in now the reason that's notable yeah there are a few reasons that's notable and and and kind of help fuel this question of why is this happening in this fashion like i think I want to be clear. I think Colin Kaepernick getting back into the league is absolutely something that should happen and should have happened every step of the way between when he was last in the league and now. But the nature of how this is happening raises eyebrows.

So first of all, workouts tend to happen on Tuesdays in the league. Okay. So a Saturday workout is inherently problematic for the participant because games are, this is all obvious to say, but it's worth just thinking this through. Games are on Sunday. So are high ranking NFL executives and personnel for the teams really going to be able to go to this workout in Atlanta on Saturday when they have games on Sunday? Bill Belichick's not going to be there. Of course. So right away, that is bizarre.

The rushed nature of getting reportedly requiring his team to commit to this day of instead of being able to talk through the conditions, the circumstances, the timing, all of that. Very strange. So my counters, I don't even have counters because I think this is bizarre, but I'm trying to put myself in the head of the NFL, one of the worst entities in a while. Maybe short timeframe because they didn't want this to be too big of a deal. So the shorter the window, the less.

It's basically four and a half days beginning, middle, end versus, hey, three weeks from now, this workout's happening. But then the Saturday thing is just so fucking confounding. I don't understand that at all. As you said, it just seems like Tuesday is so logical. And look, I'm a cynical guy, but it just seems like Goodell was at a cocktail party with Michael B. Jordan or Denzel Washington or somebody, and they were like, hey, man,

wouldn't you let Kaepernick back in? And Goodell's like, should I? And they're like, yeah, you should have a workout. He's like, okay. And it was honestly that haphazard how this happened. So USA Today had a report that the Jay-Z arrangement

with the league was a driver. So maybe it was Jay-Z and they're at some dinner and Jay-Z's like, you got to get Kaep back and just peer pressured him at some dinner and then Goodell made a call. But to your to your point about, about not wanting it, it's very strange, but to your point about not wanting, you know, the timing and not wanting it to become a big story, I think like there's just no way it isn't a huge story, literally any outcome, any timeframe, you know, this has been, again, one of the defining stories in sports for three years,

and beyond sports, national affairs. So if Kaepernick ends up back in the league after this, which he should be, that is the story in the sport every day moving forward. And the thing is that now that this workout is happening, if he doesn't end up back in, then it's the story again, too. So just by the nature of setting this up in the first place, it was going to become the primary focus in the league. I just think...

So that doesn't change if they let him wait until next Tuesday to hold the workout. I just don't like it at all. I don't like anything about it. He should already be in the league. If they were going to make a concerted effort for him to be in the league, it should have happened in the offseason when people are doing their teams. And then I fucking watch football every weekend.

And a lot of these quarterbacks are terrible. And this was always the fundamental problem with this Kaepernick thing. I don't think he's going to be an all-pro again, but he was clearly somebody who could at least play football. And the fact that we spent three years, people pretending that he was better than some of the crappy guys we were watching is nuts to me. Yeah, I agree.

But now that they're kind of shoehorning this back in, I almost find it's more insulting. Because they kind of speed rush this weird process that has no parallel to anything we've ever seen. They put no thought or time or energy into it. And if anything, it's probably going to make this whole story worse. Yes. And that's the part I don't get. Part of the, you know, this is the season of the backup quarterback.

So the fact that you have all of these guys starting across the league where everybody in the media, everybody in the fandom is going to say, is this guy really someone who should be out here instead of Kaepernick has, has kept that, kept this going and various things have kept the story going, of course. But the, to your point about just how odd it is and how really without comp or peer this is,

the idea of making somebody who was a starting quarterback in the league for multiple years, in essence, hold a pro day. It's so poorly thought out. I almost can't believe it. Baffling. And then it's like, ultimately, who's happy about this story right now? I mean, people are happy that he,

this might lead to the road that he's coming back. But I think even the most diehard Kaepernick fan or supporter is still insulted by this process. Oh, because you know, to go back to the, the Eric Reed comments among many others, there's that element right now that you can't ignore where it feels like a

little bit of a stunt. It's hard to know how genuine it is. It feels like they're pandering. It feels like, honestly, it feels like a whole pander, five days of pandering, and then the league kind of secretly hoping he's not that good in the workout. And they'd be like, hey, man, we tried.

We had a workout, and, you know, he wasn't that accurate. That would be an awful outcome. And then if he is had a workout and, you know, he wasn't that accurate. That would be an awful outcome. And then if he is good in the workout, it's like, well, you know, it's so late in the season. And now we've put somebody to pick him up for week 12. Well, I wouldn't. I think that that seems likely that rolling it into the offseason is going to be what happens. It's not like you're picking up. Which again, then would just say, well, why did this have to come together so quickly? It's not like you're picking up... Which again then would just say, well, why did this have to come together so quickly?

It's not like you're picking up a nickelback. Right. If you're working in a quarterback, you know, in week 12 of the NFL season, and they're going to learn a whole playbook and learn the chemistry with receivers, it's pretty hard to do that anyway. But then with all the scrutiny that's going to come in,

what team is going to say like, hey, this is a good idea? Unless's like a team that is has a chance to make the playoffs and it's fucked at quarterback that's the only way i could see this working i i really hope that some team gives him the chance that he deserves i really really really hope that there's a path forward here to something that feels like it's hard to even call it progress given that it just is three years overdue and we should never have been in this situation in the first place. But I

hope that we somehow are able to not take a further step back from here because this has just been so disappointing so far. I can't believe he's not at least better than 10 of the guys I will watch this weekend. He is. Absolutely. At least five he's not at least better than 10 of the guys I will watch this weekend. He is.

Absolutely. At least five he's better than. He'll be physically ready, I think, to the point about playbooks. You know, guys sign off practice squads. People come into the league in uncommon ways and at uncommon times. Again, the nature of how this is all unfolding just exacerbates things that didn't need to be exacerbated. It's just a baffling mishandling of the situation. How unbelievable would it be if the Bears signed him and then he ended up playing like the last five games or something was really good and they missed the playoffs by one game?

I could see something like that happening. I mean, I think you're right. It has to be either a team that has, well, any team really could consider it, obviously, but I think the most likely suitors would be either teams that have a shot but are not content with our current quarterback situation or teams that are out of it and know that they don't have the quarterback of the future and are interested in experimenting. You know, what's happening in Washington? I mean, it doesn't seem like anybody who's in that organization right now believes in the quarterbacks they have in the room right now.

Is that a team that's going to take a chance? I mean, it's such a great crop. You already mentioned the Bears. What's going on with the Colts? When is Brissette going to be healthy? The Hoyer thing was tough last week because that was a situation where a better quarterback,

they'd probably win that game. There are a lot of lessons from this NFL season, but one of the absolute primary ones is that you can never have too many quarterbacks. You're going to need them, right? But I do feel like this was never just about talent. This was about the scrutiny that he brings. Well, of course.

And also in certain cities, like they just don't want to deal with it. I'm not saying that's right, but it's just... I mean, there was a collusion suit, you know? Well, yeah, but I'm saying like, there's probably eight or nine teams that made sense in general anyway that would have said,

all right, this is worth it. And now it's week 11. None of those teams are going to be like, all right, now it's going to be worth it. They would have done it in June. I just, I hate this story. Well, also they would have, you would presume that they would have reached out to his team directly. Like that, that, that aspect of the league facilitating this just seems. I'm so tired of, of finding new ways to like hate the fact that I love the league facilitating this just seems... I'm so tired of finding new ways to hate the fact that I love the NFL. Well, it's a daily conundrum. It's really just a never-ending road of like, oh man, why do I like this league?

But that's one of the... They're just bad people. That is one of the existential dread-inducing aspects of being a sports fan right now is that whether it is what you're describing now about the NFL, you know, whether it's something about player empowerment, whether it's something about concussions, we've talked before about how, how, how gross it can feel to be a college football fan, because there's this part of you that loves it and is addicted to it. And then there's a part of you that cannot really believe that you are just by the nature of your participation as a patron endorsing the exploitation of the amateur athletes on and on and on the list goes. You are

complicit as a sports fan when you watch and we all have to make our own choices about whether or not we're okay with that. That's a real thing. I don't know how this plays out, but I already know I'm not going to like the outcome. I know. Because the best possible scenario is he's great in the workout when somebody signs him. And then I'm like, all right, what the

fuck did we just do the last three years? Yeah, but we're saying that anyway. But that would make it worse. We're saying it anyway. But if he's good in the workout and then it's clear, like, holy shit, like what a disaster. I don't think that as NFL fans or human beings, any of us have the self-control or discipline to avoid the temptation to constantly relitigate the past.

But the only way that there's even a remote prospect of that is if he makes his way back into the league because then people have something else to focus on. But what you're describing is always going to be there. Always.

Yeah, I don't know. So what's the best case scenario? He belongs in the NFL. I hope he gets there. I hope that there's a franchise that is pursuing this with sincerity because if it is just

a farce, a collective farce for everybody involved, then that is a tragedy. It feels like a farce and I'm already down the tragedy road. It just feels like this is cooked. And I don't know

why they're doing it. I think it's fucked up and I feel bad for Kaepernick. Yeah. And on that note, we're getting into the podcast. Thanks for coming on, Bella. Hey, thanks for having me, Bill. All right, million dollar picks really quickly. I am the Colts two weeks ago and then Dallas last week.

Wow, Dallas. You had it. I don't know what you were doing, but I lost 550 last week. I'm down 1.707 million for the season. I'm doing something that I should have done a long time ago. Kyle? Yes, sir. We're taking our pats.

They're minus 190 to win the game I'm going with your heart I'm going all in I'm going into the deep recesses

of the bank I am putting 3.3 million holy crap on the pats at minus 190 to win 1.7 I'm just doing it

whatever it takes to wipe out our debt. If I lose, we're in a lot of trouble. I'm down 5 million for the year. If you lose either way, we're in trouble, yeah. Yeah. If we lose, I'm down 5 million for the season. If we win, clean slate, even, heading into the last thing.

Pats minus 190. Pats winning, beating Philadelphia. That's our million- pick thanks to state farm thanks to mallory and matt berry thanks to simply safe if you've been thinking about your home security no better time to get at them right now simply safe home security giving our listeners an amazing exclusive black friday offer 25 off any new system plus a free HD security camera. Go to simplisafe.com slash BS to get 25% off plus a free security camera. The best home security deal you'll see. Don't miss this amazing Black Friday deal.

simplisafe.com slash BS. We are back on Sunday night. Don't forget to catch up on the Book of Basketball podcast. See you then. I don't have I don't have I don't have