The Bill Simmons Podcast - Fantasy Playoff Chaos, Taylor’s MVP Run + Fake NBA Trades With Cousin Sal and Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss the Saints shutting out Tom Brady and the Buccaneers, the Lions getting their second win of the season vs. the Cardinals, Patriots-Colts, Jets-Dolphins, Falcons-49ers, Ravens-Packers, an early look at the playoff picture, and more (1:44). Then they guess the lines for NFL Week 16 (40:57), before another edition of Parent Corner (1:07:28). Finally Bill is joined by The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor to discuss the NBA’s rise in COVID cases, replacement players, and NBA Trades After Dark (1:14:55). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Cousin Sal and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, longtime writer with The Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, Plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going

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is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we have a new Rewatchables coming, but it's not going to be on Monday. It's going to be on Wednesday this week. So program your schedules accordingly. And while you're working on your schedule,

hope you had a chance to check out all six Music Box films that we did for HBO. They're all available on HBO Max. You can stream any of them, including the latest one, Juice WRLD and Into the Abyss, which people loved. I was really fired up. All of us were. We were really hoping that people were going to like that one, and they did. So really, make two hours at some point over the holidays to check that one out. Cool? Cool. All right. Coming up, Cousin Sal and I are going to talk about week 15 NFL, which has to rank among the strangest Sundays that we've had in football and the strangest weekends.

We're going to talk about that. We're going to do NBA trades after dark with Kevin O'Connor. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. all right we're taping this part of the podcast it's a little after 8.15 Pacific time. The Bucs just got shut out by the Saints. 9-0. Tom Brady committed one of the biggest fantasy football playoff murders in the history of the fantasy playoffs. And it was just the coup de grace to, I think, the weirdest fantasy football

playoff weekend we've ever had, Sal. I don't know why we thought it would be any different. We were screaming for games to be postponed, and then when they are postponed and moved to Tuesday, we're screaming about how unfair that is. And, you know, 10, 15 guys a day that we recognize have COVID, and, like, this week is so bonkers.

And then, you know, the Lions, a 12-point other dog beat Arizona, and Brady gets shut out on Sunday night. And there was another big one too, right? I don't know. You can go down the list of the nonsense that went on today, but I don't know why we're surprised. Well, the big no-shows, Kyler Murray, who somehow had a much better weekend than Tom Brady did.

But those were the two bad ones. Chase had three yards. Kamara didn't do that well. And then the Bucs guys, freaking Godwin got hurt on that play that we hate when the D-back dives right at the guy's knees. Somehow that's the defensive receiver thing. I thought Collinsworth did a good job with that. But a lot of weird ones.

As it turns out, the guys that came through, the KC guys on Thursday night, that was the game. KC San Diego guys. Right. It's KC Green Bay at the top, right? After all this, it's going to be the ones that you shouldn't

have counted out in the first place. Yeah, Brady, it turns out, isn't as good when Godwin's out and Evans is out and Antonio Brown is out. And he's looking at Scottie Miller. Cameron Brady. Yeah, Fournette went out too. Those guys are going to have to get better or some of them, or otherwise it does

look like Green Bay. I don't know. I think Green Bay is heads and shoulders above the rest in the NFC and the Chiefs the same in the AFC at this point. I have a thought on that NFC thing, but to stick with Brady for a second, he has this particular game once a year. The body language goes south,

a couple guys gets hurt, and South, a couple of guys gets hurt and you just can kind of see he's kind of mentally figured out. It's not going to happen for me today. And the saints were in his head. They cut to this weird moment near the end after he threw that last pick. Did you see that when he kind of ran over to yell at the saints coach? I like that. He's kind of turning into like our wives as he gets older, like how our wives just start yelling at random people or somebody that cuts them off. Brady's like got old guy energy now. I kind of like it.

He's like cranky old guy. Yeah. I wish he could crank the ball away from the defenders at some point. I mean, he had six passes deflected today. And, of course, of course, I had them on a Moneyline parlay in a catch-up mode. But six passes. I mean, I will say this. The Saints defense really steps it up for this team, right?

Yeah, they do. I don't know why. Why can't they do this against Atlanta and Carolina and those teams that they're always close with? Well, it's the same recipe. It's the four guys rushing, and then everybody else either in a zone or pretending to be a zone and blitzing from a weird angle or dropping back, and that's what works, but you need the four guys and he needs

the weapons. You know, I think he's like a lot of these, basically every good quarterback, except for Rogers, where he needs guys. Rogers has figured out how to be good no matter who's on his team, which is why the MVP race probably swung today. And I don't know where it goes. Yeah, we were talking about that. It's not up yet. They don't have it up yet on FanDuel. No, we'll look. We'll look in like 20 minutes

because I bet it goes up. There's some Jonathan Taylor possibilities now. There's some Cooper Cup possibilities. The Rodgers thing. Will the COVID stuff be held against him? Yeah, right. I don't know. Well, I was looking this morning for Jonathan Taylor. thing and I will the COVID stuff be held against him. Yeah. Right. So I, I don't know.

Well, I was looking this morning for Jonathan Taylor. He was still seventh as of this morning. And obviously they played last night, seventh at 21 to one. Does he move up or does Rogers Rogers will get the top spot at this point, right?

Well, a couple of things with Taylor is by far the best running back in the league this year. I think if you're comparing guys against their peers at a position, it's the only one where there's no argument whatsoever. He's head and shoulders. Who's even number two? Who would you have? No, you can't.

With an injured Henry out there, you can't put anybody out. He's got the five fastest rushes. I know that touchdown run killed you. And he did the wrong thing by not going down at the two yard line and bleeding the clock to the two minute warning. And they could have taken three knees. But the way he cut back there for what was like a 65 yard touchdown run. That was phenomenal. He kind of kept them.

I don't want to say in check. I guess you have 170 overall, but you did a nice job before that. But you got a dose of your own medicine there, huh? Well, he... Once complete five passes? Well, it was really four, and they gave him credit for what was a double reverse handoff, which somehow counted as his second longest pass of the day. I'll just say I rooted against Taylor yesterday.

I rooted against Rodgers today because I bet against Rodgers today. And then had... I didn't bet against Rogers today. Cause I bet, I bet, uh, I bet against Rogers today and then had Taylor. I didn't bet against Rogers. I was going against Rogers and fantasy. So I was rooting against like anything good to happen for him. And then Taylor yesterday, Taylor, even when you have them, he still gets like four yards.

He is like one of the all time. He's always falling forward. Like you, you hit him the line of scrimmage and he's still it's like how the fuck did he get five yards out of that and then you're just waiting and waiting waiting for him to break one finally it happens

the Pats cut it to three they have every tease possibility they've covered it's all good the Colts are trying to run out the clock they're so terrified to have Wentz do anything you just know Taylor's getting it every time. And he gets it. And Hightower takes the wrong angle and it's 70 yards. I think he's the, I'll say this. I think he's the best player I've seen this year. So does that mean he's the MVP? I don't know. Well, yes, he's the best player,

but I don't know how Cooper Cup and you mentioned mentioned him, and he's like 100 to 1 odds or something coming into this week, and they still don't play until Tuesday. But he seems to be able to do whatever he wants. So if that's a measure of an MVP, then he's right there too. I mean, he's going to have close to 2,000 yards. It's ridiculous what he's doing. Well, if you go receiving yards, he's 200 over Jefferson right now, but they both play this week.

He has 12 TDs. Jefferson has eight. So he's got some distance. He has 113 catches. Jefferson has 85. So there's some distance, but it's not like insane. Taylor is 500 yards over the next running back. Now, Henry got hurt. You're right. If

Henry's in there, it's the two of them, but Henry got hurt. He's got 17 touchdowns mixing as 12 and 5.6 yards to carry. But the most important thing for me, his quarterback blows. I'm just telling you what rooting against the Colts on Saturday with my team, you're dying for Wentz to do anything like, please have Wentz throw the ball, please have Wentz roll out, please have Wentz try to throw it deep. He was our best chance once they had a lead, it was dying for him to even try to assert himself. And then finally the Colts said, fuck this. We were not letting him do anything anymore, but, um, you know, they win despite Wentz. Yeah. You and I always look for quarterbacks and we haven't mentioned it yet. I can't wait to bet against

blank in the playoffs. Right. Yeah. We usually by week 15 have that guy. Um, but I would say that guy is Wentz, except I like everything about the rest of the team. I didn't say I would think they could go far if they make it in. Yeah. You know, they're really fast. The Pats, the game plan was awful. I know the game happened 24 hours ago. The game plan was bad. Trying to do sweeps with them, and they just have so much speed to the outside. And then finally, once they spread it out

and they tried to let Matt cook, I thought we moved the ball really well. And that was, I think, what the game plan should have been. I think you can throw on the Colts. I think that's, you can spread them out and I think guys are open. But what the Pats are trying to do is try to beat them with speed,

which I just don't feel like you can do. And then on the flip side, Taylor's terrifying. Wentz has the whole field and the Colts, it seems like they vacillate between should we take advantage of these mismatches? But if we do that, then Wentz might put us into some trouble here. Yeah.

And it was also, your guy was due to not play so great. Lights out, right? 26 for 45. I think he had close to 300. Yeah. Yeah, he was bad first half. I thought good second half. But look, a block punt touchdown,

how many times does your team win after that happens against you? Has anyone ever won when that happens? Unless you're Belichick and you can figure it out. But he didn't. And he gave the right answer in the press conference. We didn't block the guy. It's true. You're barely going to get an answer from, and he's wearing a mask.

Just move him along. Yeah, they had eight penalties, I think, for 50 yards. But every penalty was like devastating. It was all these like momentum killing all of a sudden it's first and 15, or it was a first down getting called back. It was just, it's one of those games. They just didn't play well. And I thought the Colts I'm with you.

I think the Colts, I like their team. I don't trust the QB. And at some point you can't get through all the playoff rounds without the QB having to make a play. You look at them now. I had it all written down here. The, uh,

the culture. Yeah. They're in the five spot. There's four, eight and six teams, but the Colts are in the driver's advantage driver's seat now because of, uh, conference records.

And if they're a five seed, they're either playing probably Tennessee or whoever wins the AFC North. I think you could make a case that might be favored in those games. Five seed plays. Could be either. Five plays four, right?

Right. So it would either be it would either be Cincy or Tennessee. Indy's got at Zona next week, which is the perfect week to catch Zona. They're reeling. On Saturday. Yeah.

Then Vegas at home. then at Jacksonville. So they're going to be either 10 and 7 or 11 and 6. Yeah. They'll at least have 10 wins. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I was impressed by them. I thought they were really physical.

I mean, they knocked out two of our receivers. It seemed like they were two homatomas. But what did you see from the past that made you think they're not going to get there? The rookie QB thing or what else? Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah. I mean,

uh, maybe we, we just, uh, it was just a, a spot that Mac Jones didn't need to win in. And you know, the truth is he,

they had a buy. He had three passes, um, the week before, like now you're talking like three weeks before he's actually thrown a series of, uh, meaningful passes, right?

Yes. Forget about being a rookie. Like just anybody that's going to be tough to come back from. So, yeah, I had a feeling it wasn't going to be his best game. But the Colts definitely needed it more. But, I mean, listen, your whole season comes down to, and it's not over if you lose this, but home against Buffalo next week. Yeah, I want to, it seems like an excuse to say we were rusty because Indy also hadn't played for two weeks.

You know, they weren't rusty. They came out and they were walloping people. It was just a bad game. I'm not that scared of it, but it does make you think, like in the playoffs, if a couple things go wrong early and now I have my rookie QB

who started less than 20 games and we have to really rely on him. What's that going to feel like? Makes me nervous. I know I should be giving you more shit for this. People are going to get on my case for now. You didn't give you let Simmons off easy. They got beat by the Colton. They were down 20-0, but I'm not going to over. You're

still a very good team, I think. We were underdogs. I think we were underdogs for a reason. That line stayed at two and a half. You guys were all insulted. All the, I think we were underdogs for a reason, right? That line stayed at two and a half. Basically, the whole week. You guys were all insulted. All the Patriots fans were insulted all week that you were getting points. And then they came out and crushed you.

That's all I'll say. Well, we almost covered the tees. That's true. Just tackle Taylor and all the tees is covered. That was like my one big loss of the week. I was able to rally back today. I had the Cowboys with Tua, who I'm never betting on

again. Then the Niners. Of course, the Jets have to do their thing where they pretend they're going to win and Miami has to come back. Never again with Tua. Never again. Can't do it. I don't think you're going to do it anyway because he's at New Orleans at Tennessee

and versus your team. So maybe not never again, but not again this year. I think you're right. He threw one of the five worst passes of the season. They're up seven middle of the fourth quarter out pass. It looked like an eighth grade flag football play where it was so clear where the quarterback

was going and in slow motion, the out pass the cornerbacks like thinking pick six running toward it as he's catching it. It's like you never see those plays anymore. You sent me that one. Oh my God. Well I think because all we were hearing about is how accurate he is. He's the most

accurate passer in the last six weeks and like oh yeah he's playing the Jets so of course he'll put up a garbage number 16 for 27 less than 200 with two picks. Two touchdowns. He yeah, he's playing the Jets. Of course, he'll put up a garbage number. 16 for 27, less than 200 with two picks, two touchdowns. He knows where he's going when the ball snapped. If that's not what's going to happen, I don't know if he has a plan B. He's like, I'm going to get the ball. I'm throwing it to this guy.

He gets rid of it right away, which is great. That team's still hanging around. When you look at the AFC, which I think is a lot easier to figure out the NFC because we have all the COVID stuff. But right now with Casey suddenly in the driver's seat, we have New England, Tennessee. We have Cincy as the four seed. You have Indy, Chargers, Buffalo as the three wild cards.

And then Baltimore is the same record as the other three, but loses a lot of conference stuff. They're also eight and six. So Baltimore went from, if we get the two point, we're like a two seed. If we don't get it, we're out of the playoffs if it ended today. And that's where they did. And I want to talk about all the drunk analytics in a second. But right now our playoff matchups are New England versus Buffalo, Tennessee versus the Chargers,

and Cincy versus Indy. I feel like the Shakey's game is coming out of one of those last two, right? Ooh. Cincy Indy? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, it would have to be Cincinnati. Cincy Indy,

I feel, is the first game, but now we screwed up because we have six playoff games and one's on a Monday night. So I don't know. Do we even have a shake-ins game? I couldn't figure this out. And it hurts guests of lines, too. And Tuesday games this week hurts guests of lines.

They are not considering guests of lines when they make these playoffs. All those years you screamed at him and called him incompetent, and now he's throwing it back at you with Tuesday games. He's so spiteful. Since he's got Baltimore at home next week, Casey at home the week after at Cleveland. So they are certainly not a lock to advance. I like the way they played today, though.

Do you really? They're uninspiring to me. I think everybody seems to like them a little more than I do. They get, they, they get the drew lock gift, right? He's like,

Oh, this guy's coming in. We got it. Then Denver takes the lead and it's 10, nine drove down the field twice. He went down. Yeah. And I thought it was a gut check for Cincy.

It's like, all right, what do we have? This is our whole season right here. We can, we drive down and do it. We're in Denver altitude. It's weird. It's like, all right, what do we have? This is our whole season right here. Can we drive down and do it? We're in Denver. Altitude, it's weird. It was like your classic weird disjointed Broncos game. They were able to take out Chase completely. And the Bengals came down and got a

touchdown. So I thought that was a good sign for them at least. Their defense played rock solid. You're not going to put up huge numbers in Denver as we saw. denver out gained them what 292 to 249 it just looked like uh if lock had come in a drive earlier maybe and it was terrible though the circumstances that bridgewater yeah but um it looked like uh they just had need a one more bounce to go their way and they would have went over you could tell i bet denver so this is why oh you did? I bet Cincy. Drew Locke came in

and I felt bad for Bridgewater, but it's really good to see Drew Locke when you have money on a game. He's in. He had a play where he was scrambling and the defensive lineman just took the ball from him mid-scramble. He wasn't even being tackled. He said that twice

a year. Was this the worst day for quarterbacks? I'm looking even being tackled. He's seen that twice a year. Was this the worst day for quarterbacks? I'm looking at all the stats. It's rough. Davis Mills might have been the best quarterback today, fighting for a job. Yeah, it's Rodgers. Everyone was so bad. Rodgers or Davis Mills. Alright, we're going to take a break. I want to come back and talk about drunk analytics.

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They had 46% chance if he went for it, and now these percentages are getting thrown at us. I realize, because this hasn't worked out two weeks in a row, and yet we're not allowed to criticize Harbaugh because there's a slight statistical edge based on the two choices. Coaches are in the best spot they've ever been in in their entire lives in any sport in football. All you have to do is just go whatever the analytics go and you can't get criticized anymore. Yeah, well, people, he's getting enough criticism, I'm

sure. I mean, that might not make the playoffs because he went for a two-point conversion twice once against the steelers and once today right but all the smart people are like nope he made the right move look at the percentages so it's like maybe how many smart people are there though you're talking it depends who you're talking about like on twitter forget it he's going to get annihilated whatever he ends up no but then there's the backlash on Twitter from all the people. No, no, this is why it was the right move. Here it is. He went for it

the beginning of the game in the first quarter with Huntley, the backup, who was fantastic today for a backup. But it's fourth down and goal from the four. And it was barely inside the four, so they said it was the three, but it was really the four. And I don't know. I just think that's a really hard spot to score. If you're a two or one yard line, I get it. But once, but it's really the four. And I don't know. I just think that's a really hard spot to score.

I think if you're two or one yard line, I get it. But once you get four and back, you're definitely throwing the runs out. You can just blanket the end zone. You can just double cover whoever the best guy in the other team is. And the quarterback's always rolling out one way or the other. There's a slant over the middle, but it just seems really hard to score. And I would have taken the field goal. I'm taking three points.

You trust Tucker from 21 yards out? I do. But same thing with the overtime. Two straight weeks. And then the excuses start about, no, I wanted to win it right there. Well, you're built for overtime. You have the best kicker ever. And you have a ton of momentum.

And you've been driving down. The Packers defense is gassed. And then the cut, the converse side would be like, well, the Ravens are secondaries banged up. It's Aaron Rogers. Like, all right,

well, right. I would rather trust overtime and having the best kicker on the planet versus the Packers, shitty special teams and all the momentum I have versus my guy Huntley coming through on a two point. I, I,

I just don't think you can compare it. I think it's apples and oranges. You can't compare all these situations as the same situation. Right, but you're using the momentum argument and you're not factoring the momentum in. Like in Harbaugh's defense, you just saw Huntley run in from seven yards untouched.

It's like, oh man, I can make it from two. Right. You know, let me just, and they rolled him right. It probably just should have been a design draw, but rolling him right and making Andrews your prime target isn't a bad plan. Now, you don't want to throw in a way

where it hits two Green Bay defenders. But did you see the clip, though? It bounces off of Andrews. NBC broke down the clip. The safety pretended he was in the middle, and as soon as the ball was snapped, he beelined toward Andrews. So it soon as the ball was snapped, he beeline toward Andrews. So it was like the ball was still going to Huntley and the safety's running. So, so Andrews

basically double team. They knew it was going to Andrews. That's why it should have been him. Yeah. I just think it's, I think it's really hard. Like if you and I are sitting there and being like, all right, what player is Baltimore going to want? We're probably like, Oh, roll out and throw to Andrews. Like, well, Green Bay knew that too. I don't know. It's a tough one because I don't know if you want to check analytics or not, but what's Rodgers to score there, to kick a field goal themselves there? They're probably going to win either way,

whether Baltimore's up one or it's tied, right? Was there a minute 20 left? How much time was left in the game there? No, I think it was like 40 seconds. Was it 40? Yeah. So you could say, all right, Rodgers. I think it was like 40 seconds. Was it 40? Yeah. So you could say, all right, Rodgers. I get it.

I get all of it. I just like my chances in overtime when I have momentum, when I have Tucker. Yeah. So the bigger problem is they can't score. And they have the Lamar Jackson facsimile, but they can't score. They had 22 last week.

They had 20 or fewer the four weeks before that they were in the teens for the most part until that last play of the game. You know, like they, you can't count on them to put numbers up with or without Lamar Jackson. That's going to be a problem. But like you said, if you go by those AFC North schedules, one's worse than the other. I mean, I don't know who gets a break here, really. Since he's got Baltimore, Casey, and Cleveland. Baltimore's got Cincinnati, Rams, and Pittsburgh. Cleveland's got Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati.

And Pittsburgh's not having it either. I didn't like it. But I guess this is why it's fun to talk about. I just think coaches now can just fall with whatever the numbers are, and that just solves any sort of issue. It's just weird. He's going to lose plenty of sleep tonight. No, he was adamant after the game.

He was like, Hey, they said, here's why we did it. And we're going to do it. And that's who we are. And that's who, who was the other coach that does that?

Oh, a Staley guy in the chargers. That was the other one. They went for three fucking first down for fourth downs. One of them was like, well, what was the first one they went for? It was like fourth and five?

The one was really bad. And they were dropping passes too. And then the Chiefs did it the same way too. But there was one before half where they should have taken points in that game. Yeah, in the first quarter. In the first try, they got no points. I bet on the Chiefs and I'm like, oh my God, they're going for it on fourth and goal

from the five. This is great. This is the stupidest thing ever. And that Staley's just adamant. This is how we go. I mean, he was at the top of the list. At the top of the list for coach of the year. Now he's nowhere really to be found. I was like, oh, this is going to bite him in the ass,

all these riverboat decisions here. I like it. It's like analytics after two drinks. It's just like, I'm going to have a shot, and we're going to go for it. Yeah. I like it. It's like analytics after two drinks. It's just like, I'm going to have a shot and we're going to go for it. Yeah. Fourth of two, 46% if we go, 44% if we don't, let's go. I get 2% advantage. All right, cool. You lost again. Yeah, you lost again. I would love Mike McCarthy to use analytics. At least there's a name for what he's doing. You know? Like, no, no. Well, it's okay.

Why don't you call time out there? It looks like we could have called. No. Oh, all right. Come on. He got a challenge today. He got an interception for Diggs. It was McCarthy's greatest moment.

That's true. The defense is going to win it for him. Anytime they cut to the sideline and McCarthy's holding a red flag, what's your reaction? Fear? Dismay? What do you think? I'm like, I hope he eats it.

Wipe your brow or your lip with it or something. Yeah, it's never a good thing. One last thing on the Ravens. I think I've seen enough of Brent Huntley at this point, and he's cost me money with the Browns last week when he was threading the needle on 4th and 13 to single-handedly ruin my cover. I actually think he's pretty good.

Yeah, I do. I think he's a starting quarterback and I don't, obviously there, you know, that team has Lamar, but do you think like he's good enough now where he could get traded for a first round pick?

Because you think there's 15 good quarterbacks in the league. I would trade a first round pick for that guy now. Oh, I don't think you need to trade a first round pick. You think you need would trade a first-round pick for that guy now. Oh, I don't think you need to trade a first-round pick. You think you need to trade a first-round pick for Brent Hundley? Yeah, he's like two years in. I think he's making like a million bucks a year. If I'm like Caroline, I'd rather have him than Darnold or Cam Newton, for sure. Well, Cam Newton, come on.

Yeah. No, I'm saying, could you actually build a real team around that guy for the next two years? You have a quarterback at 1 million and he's doing basically what Jalen Hertz is doing for Philly. Baltimore is doing for Lamar. We build a specific offense around him. And I think he could do it.

I, I actually think he's got really good touch. I'm impressed by him. I feel like he has a good instincts, but maybe, maybe we need to see a little bit more before we can try the first round. I think I might be overrated that Browns game.

Hey, listen, if Darnold can get a second rounder after showing nothing on the Jets, like forever, and he was worth the second rounder, how is Huntley not worth, I don't know, a low first? And maybe second? High second? He can get a second.

Next topic. What the hell happened to Arizona? I don't know. A low first and maybe second high second. You can get a second. Yeah. Next topic. What the hell happened, Arizona? I don't know. What happened? That game. Besides, besides they found out, I bet them. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know. I can't imagine what else. But. Did you get killed today? You seem especially somber today. Yeah, of course I got killed. I got beat on everything. I bet that stupid Jimmy Kimmel ball. I bet it over. It went under by 30 points. I got beat on everything. I bet that stupid Jimmy Kimmel ball. I bet it over.

It went under by 30 points. I had a beautiful parlay with everything else. And then, I mean, Kyler was, were you watching that game? Yeah. Like everything that could have gone wrong went wrong for that game. But is this to be expected? Like expected he's just going to collapse injury or not the last month of every season? I need a heads up if that's what's going to happen.

I wrote in my notes to discuss with you, is Kyler Murray the new Mr. October? Because Reggie Jackson, he no longer plays baseball. I don't know. I don't like when nicknames just get taken, but now it's been like 35 years since Reggie was Mr. October. You look at Kyler Murray's October stats the last two years. He's

the best quarterback of all time. But he looked horrible today. Now, no Hopkins. Right. And the game just had a weird flow to it from the get-go. You could tell something weird was happening. Gus and Aki were doing the announcing.

It just had the vibe. It really felt like, oh boy, here we go. And that Oman St. Rob Brown, what's his name? You know who he is because you have him in your fantasy. I have my two fantasy teams. That guy's open all the time. I didn't realize until today, Gus

Kalief Raymond caught a pass and Gus is like, and the wide receiver from Holy Cross. I went to Holy Cross. I didn't know how to lock it. I was so excited. Yeah. Anyway. But listen, the point is Detroit should be trying to lose.

I know there's no clear cut number one guy, but what the hell are they doing here? Now they don't even have odds for best. I mean, the Jags were nine to one this morning to have the worst record. And now they're in the driver's seat. I don't know what they're driving. They're driving a broken down 77 Chevy Nova.

But they're in the driver's seat. Yeah, but out of the bad teams, I think Detroit is by far the best bad team. Because they're 2-11-1. And the tie they should have won. They lost to Cleveland by three. They lost to the Bears by two. They lost to Cleveland by three. They lost to the Bears by two. They lost to Baltimore by two. They lost to the Vikings by two.

You know, that team, even the Rams game was 28-19. That team's hung around in a lot of these. And I saw, did you see Dan Campbell after? He was great. He's the best. Anytime the Lions win, go to the Detroit Lions Twitter feed and go watch whatever Dan Campbell told the team. It was awesome.

And they always say it's like team speech cliche where they're like, that was a team win. That was a team win, guys. Everyone on this team chipped in. They just say that nobody's ever like, the offense won this game. Defense, you did nothing. Special teams, nothing.

Could he win coach of the year or is it too late? If he gets like four wins, can he win the Cody? I think Harbaugh is going to win it because even though they blew the last two games on fourth down calls, the analytics said they should have gone for it. You hate it. You hate it. I don't hate it, but it's just we're not allowed to argue about it because it was always a 2% edge. Of course we could argue about it, but no.

Everything is taken into account, momentum included. I think they had momentum is the problem. Yeah. I don't know who the coach of the year is. I don't know who the MVP is. Your guy got knocked. I mean, offensive rookie of the year was looking like your guy, Mac Jones. He'll still get it.

Chase didn't grab it today either. The only one is Parsons. Parsons is the only one that's like, you can lock it down. It's Parsons. For defensive. For defensive. Yeah.

Minus 5,000. Yeah, for sure. That's the only one. He should win defensive player of the year. But even for Belichick, who wins? I mean, is LaFleur the coach of the year? No. But what is Rodgers doing? Like,

hey, it looks like they surrounded him with the right players again. Like, I don't know what his complaint would be at this point. Yeah. I guess we're out of candidates. What if the Chiefs finish 13 and fours? Mahomes is just take it off the table as an MVP candidate. I don't know. I think he has like 10 or 11 interceptions. What does he have already? If we're just going backwards for who's the most important player in their team, I still think it's Taylor.

Now, the Colts have to finish, I think, 11 and six for that to happen. Because you can't say, oh my God, they're 10 and seven. He's so important. 11 and6. Now we're talking, especially when you have a quarterback who is as shaky as him. Holmes has 13, actually 13 interceptions.

That's two years worth it for him. Cam Newton, did you see any of his work today? I don't know why. Doesn't anything register in your head like when you're Cam Newton and you score from four yards out, but you're losing or you know you're going to lose? Doesn't it register that you're going to lose? So why are you doing

a dance? Why are you going crazy for? You know this is going to be an embarrassing moment in a few minutes. They were driving for a garbage time drive and he just threw like an eight yard pass directly to one of the bills. And that was the end of it. It was like the most humiliating in the game. I can't believe

he's still playing. Hey, we got it. Michelle Tafoya was back. You know, you did this. I don't want to make light of this, but you could people who disappear, you can maybe bring them back into existence. And we were having so much fun with that last week.

And then it became like a serious news story. It's like Michelle Tafoya, was she? Listen to our podcast every week. We're having fun. We're like, hey, there's a conspiracy theory. They took her off, blah, blah, blah. Well, she came back. I still think it's hilarious that NBC,

who has a 17-week schedule, that people need buys and rest. That's great. It's one-third of the year. Can't work 17 straight weeks? What the hell is going on? So that's what it ended up being. It was just that, or that's what they're saying.

But then we'll see. We'll see if she's back next year. New headline. Well, you did it. You did it, man. I don't think they would have even thought to bring her back if you didn't bring it up last week. I think they would even thought to bring her back if you didn't bring it up last week I think they should resign

her for five years analytics say resign her all right we got a I don't know how we're going to do guess the lines but well they have lines on all these games I'll tell you that okay actually have one I think you're going to win because I was awful

again we're going to talk about the games that are coming up and we'll do Guess the Lines right after this. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend that powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days and the ability to reach further with access to over 1400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business

Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right. We're back with a somber Cousin Sal. I can tell you got shellacked today. Was it like a 9 out of 10 or a 10 out of 10 shellacked? I'll just tell you. You can tell because I'm telling you right now. That's what happened. No, like an 8 out of 10.

But this was off last week too, which Amanda Nunez destroyed me. So I don't know. I don't know what to do. I mean, listen, I know quitting is not an option. So what the hell do I do? I got to dig out somehow. Can I tell you a couple of my bets today? Yeah.

Because I got killed. Only if they lost. I got killed by the Pats. No, one of them lost. I had a Titans-Bengals parlay. And I'm still not positive how the Titans didn't win that game by 10 points. Even watching it, it was unclear how they were losing or about to lose. Ben and December now, the balls are just, I think one of them stopped in midair and

like went backwards. It's the opposite of a frozen rope. It is like, it's like watching a balloon slowly go up in the air and come down. And they just kept over and over again. They would move the ball. Somebody would catch the ball in traffic, whatever. And then Tannehill, you know, without Derrick Henry, he just can't win a game like that. Yeah, it was.

It was pure Steelers defense. They shut him down. If you look at it, Ben's numbers were bad again. 16 for 25, 148. Nadja Harris had 18 yards rushing. So what do you have to do to win that game on the other side? Well, four sacks, three fumbles created in Lawton's game

and one interception. That's exactly what happened. And it felt like they were running the ball. The Titans Foreman was pretty good in that game but they just couldn't keep the ball from going to the Steelers. Yeah, they had two under one yards rushing. I mean, you look at these numbers, nothing really makes sense.

Boy, I hope that tied to the Lions is the difference of why Pittsburgh doesn't make the playoffs. I know. That would be so damn funny. Well, I lost that one, but my most fun one, I was on Twitter before the games, and I saw that the Panthers kicker was scratched. Right. So I got all excited. I was like, oh, cool, no field goals. and I saw that the Panthers kicker was scratched.

So I got all excited. I was like, oh, cool. No field goals. I've never bet this. I'm going to bet the under. And I did the alternate line for Panthers bills. I took it up to 50 and a half. And I'm like, no kicker.

There's no way this is getting there. So of course, like it's immediately like 14 to eight and there's just the drives left and right. Cam Newton's like doing QB draws. And I'm like, are you kidding me? They're going to score 51 points in this game, but it ended up covering. So I took that and I put that with a bunch, but then. Wait, but you're better. I mean, that was a more exciting story than the way you're telling it. They had fourth and two. Right. Where they should have kicked the field goal just to go off what was it wait did

they kick the but no they went they ended up going for it yeah bill's like two and they get it to and the only way you're going to get that is you get a touchdown because if they get a first down they're running the clock out they don't even cover the regular spread right and they scored a touchdown and then but then cam still had time to come down and they didn't do it that was when he threw the yeah that was good so i had that with a bunch of stuff, but then I had the Niners, Dolphins, Cowboys. And knowing that too, I was going to be nervous and it was right.

But the Niners, the Niners, I just, we talked about this last week, 17 to one win the NFC. And now you look at it and it's like, do I like them more than the Cardinals? Yes. Do I like them more than the Bucks? From what I saw today, it's at least a conversation. Do I like them more than Packers?

Yeah, I think they could give them a really good game. I think that's a really good NFC title game. I think the Niners, this is not hyperbole. I think they're as good as anyone in the NFC. I really do. You mentioned that who's the second best running back in football after Jonathan Taylor. It might be Debo Samuel. It really might be. Kittle is monstrous and they're making Jimmy G look good. He only had a few

incompletions, right? He was 18 for 23. Jimmy G was awesome today. He really was. And Kittle, once again, when they really need something, he's going to make it happen, him or Debo. They didn't have Mitchell yet. They get Mitchell back next week, who's a far better running back than Wilson and some of these other guys. But each week, Garoppolo has gotten better. I've watched a lot of Niners for some reason.

I think because every week it's the late games are always, there's always like three games. But I thought early half of the season, really shaky. And there were moments and you always felt like he was going to throw one of the other team. But I think the last three, four weeks, he's looked like the Jimmy from a couple of years ago. Have you seen that or am I crazy? They scare me the most. And you asked me point blank last week, would you rather play the Rams or the 49ers?

And this is before the Rams look really good against the cards Monday night. And I said the 49ers, I still would. I wouldn't want to play. I'd rather play Arizona if I had to pick one of those three teams. Right now, I'd rather play them. I think I'd rather play Arizona, too. Well, right now, it's Green Bay in the top seed. Tampa, Dallas, Arizona are all 10-4.

Rams are 9-4. San Fran's 8-6. So San Francisco is guaranteed a 6 seed, basically. But they do play the Rams Week 17 They have two tough teams Yeah They got at Tennessee

Home Houston at Rams Yeah They'll win the Houston game And 9 will be enough to get an NFC 7 seed I think But I think They could be 10

Well we'll talk about that line Which was surprising to me anyway Well the point is They're going to be either a 5 seed or a 6 seed And The question I ask you You might see them in round 1 And is they're going to be either a five seed or a six seed. And the question I ask you, you might see them in round one and that you're going to be bummed out. I know. I don't want to play them. I want to play.

I want Arizona to keep sliding and just by accident get a seven seed. But back to Zane Gonzalez, if we learned one thing this year, it's that nobody has like a backup kicker. Right. Like how did that happen that a punter can't make an extra point, essentially, like a 32-yard

field goal? Does that surprise you? I thought everybody had one other player who could... Or did they have to bring in a whole other kicker if this happens? I would be so bummed out at my punter if he didn't have the ability to at least kick 30-yard field goals.

It's like, what the fuck? All you do is kick. Yeah. It would be like if Kyle could only do sports podcasts, but pop culture is like, I don't know. We had Johnny Hacker on because he was an Oregon State grad and with the whole thing on against all odds. And I was like, wow, you really could socially distance yourself from everybody.

You could go the whole season, aside from touching the same ball that the snapper gets to you. You could be 12 yards away from everybody the entire year. And I was thinking further, you have a lot of downtime. Why not make yourself into a good field goal kicker or a bad field goal kicker, but a good extra point kicker? So what do you say? Oh, I didn't ask him that. I was too much of a pussy to ask him that. Well, a lot of the time they kick off with, you know, the punters are the kickoff people.

Right. I don't get it. It's weird. It should be easier to kick off. Well, the other thing is you would figure every team has like one awesome athlete. You know, those athletes that can just basically do everything. And in high school football they were also the ones that kicked field goals. How did they not

have that guy? Yeah, like I would expect like the fat punter on the Steelers to be able to kick 55 yards. Apparently not the case. Well, we could, I mean, the big prize, the one seed is great, but the two seed is also great in the NFC because you get to play

the New Orleans, Washington, Philly, Mini, Atlanta. Although the way New Orleans played today, who knows? You know, Dennis Allen hasn't coached for like 10 years. Is that what it was? Yeah. I thought he was pretty good today. Alright, let's do Guess the Lines. Every week, Sal and I,

we try to guess the lines that are upcoming for the next NFL week. And I win. John Harbaugh said I win 58% of the time. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't pick me. You're up 7-6-2 after 15 weeks because I won. But I'd be shocked.

You'd have to be miserable in your picks to not beat me this week. Well, before we do week 16, we should mention. Oh, yeah. We still have four games. We have Raiders Browns tomorrow. You want to do like quick picks for these Raiders Browns? What's the line on that now? I guess so.

I mean, you really get screwed if you had the Raiders at some point this week and then they changed it on it. Let me find. So Browns are now a three-point favorite. 41.5 is the over on there. I'm going to say Raiders. One last shot at the Raiders.

What do you think? I like that the Raiders are underdogs. I like betting against Baker Mayfield. I would not bet this game, but if I did, I would probably take the points. Because it's like, if Raiders lose, they're done. This is, in a weird way, kind of a semi-loser-leave tournament.

Then the other one, Vikings Bears, which, what's that line is now? Minnesota 6.5 against Chicago? Yeah, that feels upset-y. I'm going Bears. I'm taking all the crap teams tomorrow.

I might do it for Tuesday, too. Let me look at this. Bears looks a little upsetting. You never want the Vikings and Kirk Cousins on the road laying a touchdown. Then Tuesday, we have Seahawks-Rams. That would have been today? Sure, yeah. Yeah, we needed that game.

We needed one more game today. Yeah. That one is Rams by seven. Full touchdown, yeah. It was going to be like three, two and a half, three, if they had played it Sunday. And it looks like the Rams have enough guys back

that that actually might be okay to tease them. And then the last one is Eagles-Washington. Eagles is six and a half right now? Mm-hmm. It feels like a Rams-Eagles tease looks too easy, and I'm probably not doing it. But Kyle Allen is the QB for Washington. So anyway, those are four pretty uninspiring games.

I know, but let's... And I know they wanted... So this is a Monday game anyway, and it doesn't matter. It's Raidersiders Browns, but NFL locks out again with these Tuesday games. Oh, they can pretend that they, oh, they can pretend that we don't want to start moving games. They don't give a shit. They love it.

Of course they want Tuesday game. In fact, if they can move on the Wednesday, they would. Now they have two Tuesday. Well, I think we're going to have Tuesday games the rest of the year. What do you think? Yeah. We'll have three more weeks of Tuesday. Well, we're going to have two, Tuesday games the rest of the year. What do you think? Yeah. We'll have three more weeks of Tuesday. Well, we're going to have two, two.

We have nothing Wednesday. We have a Thursday, nothing Friday, two on Saturday, all Sunday and then Monday. So this, but I think they'll want a couple of those games will get moved too. I mean, I think that's just, yeah, that's not going to happen. All right. Well, let's go to Thursday night, week 16, 49ers Titans. By the way, I started Romandre Stevenson in our fantasy playoffs against our crazy friend, Brad. And the only reason was I was so scared of COVID. I didn't really have other options. If Javante Williams got,

he was the other guy I could have started for Denver. But if he got scratched, I was basically a zero. So I was like, I'm just going to grab the remandre points and hope he does well. I know I was looking at it like an hour before. He's like, he's playing. All right. I'm starting. I know I have points in this. I've never had that fantasy before.

We were just like grabbing the live body. By the way, Brad's been a live bodies. Brad's might not be for very long. He's very upset that he couldn't close the gap on you. He's down 18. Yeah. Against you now. He had Godwin who went out very early.

I mean, that could have been. And he's got a couple. Was he obvious? He has something else going tomorrow. He had Godwin and Gronk. Godwin went out early and then Gronk got double teamed. Did nothing. I started the Packers defense, the Bucks

defense, and another good defense that's going. I'm looking here. The Rams defense. And I agonized over it and of course went with the Packers, which was the worst possible move. I hate fantasy football. We do this every year. It makes me hate myself. I always do

the wrong move. He's down 18. He has Montgomery and the Vikings defense. And you're done. So that's a fun one. Here's another one. I started. Somebody was rooting for Simmons. Yeah, root for that guy.

Yeah, he needs the $800. Yeah, definitely root for him. I started Chase Claypool over Valdez, Scantling, and Russell Gage. And Chase Claypool had seven rushing yards and 12 receiving yards. I don't know what made me think this was the week that Ben Roethlisberger was going to be able to throw a spiral. This is why I hate fantasy football. I really hate myself.

Seriously. All right. Thursday night. 49ers at the Titans. What a battle. This Seriously. Alright. Thursday night. 49ers at the Titans. What a battle. This is a really good Thursday night game with some actual ramifications because the Titans have not

locked up the AFC South by any means. And I don't think they're going to be favored. I think the 49ers have to be favored. I'm going to say 49ers by one. They're not really smart, but smarter than I am here. I said a pick,

and it's three and a half 49ers I'm favored by. They're not our secret anymore, Simmons. No, they're good. Yep. That's a nice one. Hmm. Well, I'm going to figure out

how to bet them. I'm riding them until they lose. That's a fun one. Saturday is Christmas. Two games. Packers home for the Browns. This is ludicrous that we have to guess the line. The Browns play on Tuesday.

We have no idea. No, Monday. No, they play tomorrow. Play tomorrow. We have no idea who's going to even be there on Saturday. But with that said, I'm going to guess Packers by seven. I said six. It's seven and a half.

You're up two there. I love the Packers there. And I know it's not an amazingly short week. It's Monday to Saturday. Teams play Sunday to Thursday all the time. But they are just better. They're going through the motions. They know exactly what they know to want to do to win and whatever. They pull it out of their ass if they need to.

And, uh, well, they'll run it up on you. I love them there. That's a pretty brutal spot for the Browns to play on Christmas in green Bay, five days after you've already played and you've had a whole bunch of COVID stuff. Not great. Well, it's going to suck if they lose tomorrow

or for them to lose tomorrow. Like, oh, crap, we could have lost Saturday and had the extra rest and had all these guys back. The other one is a fantastic game, Cardinals-Colts. It's in Arizona. Every game is a must-win for the Colts at this point. And then the Cardinals all of a sudden. I remember looking at this two weeks ago.

I swear to God. And I wanted to see what the odds for the NFC West were for the Niners. And I think they were like 100 to 1. It was like something completely insane like that. Was it two weeks ago? Yeah. It was something completely batshit crazy like that. And then of course... What is it now? I mean, they're not going to win.

They're still not going to win the division, right? Oh, I don't know. They're 50-1 now. Jump on them now. 50-1 now. Oh, the 49ers, right? Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. They're 50-1. Right. So they were 100-1. But let's say they beat the Titans and let's say the Cardinals beat the Colts

and then the Cardinals still have at Dallas and then home for Seattle. You're saying the Colts beat the... Yeah. I don't think the Cards are allowed to win that division. Then the Niners get to play the Rams in the last week and they would have every time breaker. 50-1 seems like a decent throwaway. Am I crazy? I'm just to play the Rams in the last week and they would have every time breaker. 50-1 seems like a decent throwaway. Am I crazy?

I'm just looking at the Rams play. So the Rams have nine wins and four games left. That's the difference though, right? They have Seattle, at Minnesota, at Baltimore, then San Francisco. 50-1 is worth it. That team's good. If you like them 17-1 to win the NFC, 50-1 is fine for

the West. You'd need the Rams to win one of those Minnesota-Baltimore games. At Minnesota, at Baltimore. Have them lose one. So the Niners would have to run the slate. Rams would have to lose one of those. Then the Niners would have to beat the Rams. And you'd need the Cardinals to lose to Indy and at Dallas. Dallas.

Not impossible. Not impossible. 50-1 seems way too high. We're betting that when I hang out. Okay. I have cards minus 2.5 against the Colts. Wow. I said 3.5. It's 2.

I thought it'd be a little high. I don't know why. Still, this team, I guess it doesn't matter if they're home. They're better on the road anyway, and the Colts still need it more, right? That's why that's that low, and nobody wins at home. Well, the Colts are playing way, way, way better, I would say. Listen, I mean, it was nice news

when you heard that Hopkins could be back for the NFC Championship. Like, NFC Championship? This team's going to struggle to make the playoffs now. You can go 10-7. Yeah, they're in a lot of trouble. That Hopkins thing. Who's their best offensive player

that's not Kyler now? I don't know. Rondell Moore, all they do is throw bubble screens to him. He doesn't seem like he runs any actual routes. Right. Kirk seems to be the guy that he leans on a little bit. A.J. Green could get hurt tomorrow. I thought Hurts would be more impactful

on that offense once they made that trip. Yeah. Doesn't seem like they know how to get the ball to him. All right. Sunday's marquee game. I think it's Pat's bills. It's in New England.

We'll see what the weather is. It would be funny if they ran the ball every time again. I have the Pat's by three over the bills.

Do I get this? I do. I said two and a half. It's two. No, we split it then. We do. Yeah. Oh, you said two and a half. It's two. No, we split it then. We do?

Yeah. Oh, you said two and a half. It's two. Yeah, you win it. Yeah. See, this is how you get me. You play mind games. It's late.

What was it when the Bills were home? Was it three? Was it a full three? It was three with weird weather. Right. We'll see. The weather probably isn't going to be awesome on Sunday either. I'm excited for this.

It's a good one. Watchables. Bengals, Ravens, and Cincy. Mm-hmm. Is this a loser-leaves-town match? No, only because the last three. Look at everybody's schedule. It's like you could go two and one.

You can go one and two. I think there's going to be a ton of 8-7s going into that last week. Can we call this a loser can't win the division match? 8-7 going into next week, sorry. Yeah, I think that you could do. Alright.

So this is... Loser leaves the division. No, this is an elimination match for the belt. Yeah, somebody gets eliminated. I'm going to say Cincy by 2. elimination match for the belt. Somebody gets eliminated. I'm going to say Cincy by two and a half over the Ravens. Nailed it. I said three and a half. It's two and a half. Question. Why didn't the line move

when Lamar was ruled out? Was it because everybody knew he wasn't playing? I thought it moved. Didn't it go to nine? It was nine all day, though. So people knew he wasn't playing, but it wasn't out yet. Yeah.

Oh, I see. Yeah, right. Yeah, it moved. They knew. Yeah, the last time they moved, they knew it. Yeah, he's got to get rid of this diarrhea already. It's enough. I'm not sure the line should have moved that much.

Like, do you think it's a massive drop-off from Lamar to Huntley? Huntley's good. I don't know. I guess it's okay. I don't. I guess it's know. I think that nine points seem really stupid when you're actually watching that game.

That seemed like that should have been seven points. Baltimore, to me, it was like four secondary guys out. They're only the fourth string cornerback. Rams are home for the Vikings. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Rams are at the Vikings, right? Yeah.

Well, this looks like the kind of matchup that even though I'm going to try to fight it off, I'm not going to be able to. And I'm going to bet on the Vikings. Oh.

Oh. Yeah. You don't care to see what happens Monday? No, this, I just know myself. I don't believe in this Rams team. And anytime the Vikes are dogs, I talk myself into them. Wow.

Because I hate myself. I have the Rams by two and a half over the Vikes. That's exactly what I had. It's a full three. Full three. All right. Next one is Catherine Tappan home against Michelle Tafoya I'm going to say Tappan by

eight does she go missing? it's fair I think as long as she shows up I really enjoyed the Tafoya jokes last week sometimes we just have stuff on the pod just for you and I we don't even care

and then it becomes a big feature in the New York Post. It would have killed them to add my goddamn name to the article. I helped make that funny. Or that we're laughing the entire time. Chiefs home for the Steelers. Wow.

I'm going to make a prediction. I don't think Roethlisberger can match scores with Pat Mahomes. All right. You're crazy. I feel like I'm cheering you up. You were like a show yourself, the star of the pod. Now you're looking good.

Well, I know, but here's what's getting me upset. There's a lot of nines and tens out there. I know. I know. And you know what we're gonna do well you know what's gonna happen to us the line for this game should be seven and a half but i know they're gonna push it out of the teaser zone so i'm gonna say nine chiefs by nine i said seven and a half and it's 10 so you get it well that's a t that's a teaser right

they don't even care that pittsburgh it more. They do not want us teasing. Right. Uh, let's, let's take a break. We'll do the rest. All right. We somehow have nine games left.

Barely watchables. Falcons home for the lions. I normally, this is a poop FECTA, but I got to say Fal say Falcons Lions kind of enjoy this one you can tell this will be every time it comes on the red zone you'll know something fun happened I have

the Falcons by three over the lines all right I said six and a half no it's four and a half you still get it I know I'm stupid I don't know they have four times as many wins or three times as many wins, but it will come down to a field goal here for sure. Matt Ryan,

that some unbelievable goal line stands in the Falcons Niners game. And I was trying to think like, how long would the YouTube video be now? Matt Ryan inside the five yard line, just getting stuffed and throwing incompletions. Like he has to have more of those than any quarterback in modern history. Right. Right.

He had one today where he rolled out and for some reason thought he might be able to get it and rolled in and four guys hit him. And it looked like the Mo Lewis blood. So hit, he just got, yeah, some guys just shouldn't roll out. Like they should just tell it. They. He just got... Some guys just shouldn't roll out. They should show him those clips. Like, Matt, don't roll out. You should be in a punter's formation. He should have a 12-yard snap to him every time.

Yeah, he wasn't that good. I will say, they scored first in Atlanta, and they took it off the board, and I was cursing up a storm. I'm like, why do I do this every... I do it. It's been three weeks since they screwed me. Why can't I stay cursing up a storm. Like, why do I do this? Every way I do it. It'd been three weeks since they screwed me. Why can't I stay away?

Cause I bet the Niners much like you, I liked them a lot. And then they took it off my go. I know I got to clean up the glass. I broke here for no reason. They took it off, but I thought they were poised to screw us. And they didn't. I'm not sure. I love pits.

The more I watch them. Does he have one touchdown? I have him on two of my three fantasy teams. And it's like, he's like six to seven points a game. And doesn't like, especially around, I thought around like the end zone, like inside the five, I thought that's where that guy would just be like this unbelievable weapon and they can't get on the ball.

And I don't know if it's going to draw, draw pass interference calls or he's going to score, right? They never go to him in big spots. It's weird. Now he's young. Yeah. One touchdown.

He's 21 years old, but I really thought he was going to be more impactful than, than he was. Go back to college. He's got to go. He seems small. Like when you watch him, he doesn't seem like a tight end,

you know, like kidittle looks like he's the biggest kid in the high school football game. I think it's the jersey number. I don't know why. We shouldn't call this. Yeah, Pitts. Go to 88. You'll see much scarier. Put a number after the 8. You're going to have to do it.

If anything, it'll make him seem wider. Chargers home for the Texans. The Texans were goddamn frisky today. I loved it. Davis Mills, who I think the guy where the Pans were goddamn frisky today I loved it Davis Mills who I think the guy that Pats Where the Pats were going to take if they didn't get back In the second round And he's had now a couple games where it's like

Alright this guy there's something here I don't know what He's not bad He doesn't lose these games to them He's like 19 for 30 or something Look at his demeanor he's got like a calmness to him Him and Fields both of them and Mac Jones Like those threeanor. He's got like a calmness to him. Him and Fields, both of them, and Mac Jones, like those three guys, it's like kind of a calmness to them.

You talk about a line that moved and Urban Meyer already gets canned and the line moves two points. Doesn't it seem like whatever the immediate narrative is, go against it. Like, oh, Urban's gone. Oh, they're going to rally the team because they hated him and they're going to crush the Texans who beat him in week one. Like, yeah, that's the exact opposite of what happened. The Texans went up there and beat the crap out of them. We did.

We had the Texans in underdog parlay of the week, which won, by the way. We had Texans-Bengals. So that went ahead. That was our fifth one of the year. But I also bet the Texans, too, for what you just pointed out. And maybe because we're getting older, I look for this more, but when people, these fake narratives that move the lines where there's no basis in reality at all, where it's like,

wow, they're going to try harder because urban's that really, are they? Maybe they just want to get to the end of the season. Yeah. Like a therapist should sit down with us. Like, okay, well, all right. Think about this. There's still the Jaguars. Why do you?

Yeah, they're terrible. The coach didn't play ever anyway. And by the way, Trevor Lawrence is getting shielded for his lackluster play by all this urban stuff. He's kind of the big winner in all this. Yeah. He makes some bad throws throughout the game. I don't watch college football that much,

so I didn't have the expectations other people have, but he does a jump off the TV screen when you're watching. I'll tell you that much. You would have no idea. He was the number one overall pick. I think it's funny though, that the default narrative was they were going to try harder. Cause what? Cause they're going to stick it to urban. He's got fired with cause like there's one more damage. Could you cause the guy who was completely humiliated for a week? I would have thought the narrative would have been like, wow, what a shit show. I'm sure those guys just want to get the F out of there and get to the spring. Not like, oh, we're going to stick it to our coach. What do they care?

And get the number one pick somehow. Yeah. All right. Well, mark that down. Let's look for that the next time that happens. We're like fake narratives that have nothing to do with anything. Fake narrative alert. Davis Mills may have done what many quarterbacks

have not figured out, how to get Cooks the ball. Brandon Cooks. I think he may have figured it out. Over 100 yards. Cooks was a big fantasy success this week. Yeah.

So I have Chargers by nine over the Texans. Oh, what did I say? No, I can't find this. Chargers are on the road, right? Yep. Yeah, you get it. I said eight and a half and it's ten and a half.

I would beware people out there. I know as much as the love we're giving Davis Mills, if the Chargers are going to make the playoffs, this is the game they have to win, right? Unless you just don't think they make it. I would beware of the Chargers. I don't trust that team.

Staley, I know we were 0-4 again on fourth downs, but this is our team. I know I've blown four games this year, but this is what we do. We're the Chargers. And then not to cover in overtime. Next one. Good luck figuring out what this line's going to end up being, but the Seahawks are home for the Bears. Both of them

haven't played yet this week. I said Seahawks by six. I have no idea. Yeah, you get it. I said five, and it's seven. You're just crushing me here. It's five, six, eight, eight. Well, I knew. I feel like you lost when you showed up on the Zoom. Can we stop doing them?

Isn't it like, could it be like one of those match games? They don't have to play the last four holes? Eighth grade baseball where it just ends in the third inning? Yeah, the mercy rule. Well, we can go fast. Raiders, Broncos. It's in Vegas. And I don't think the line's at three.

I think it's going to be Raiders by two over the Broncos. Oh, shit. You got this one, too. I think it's going to be Raiders by two over the Broncos. Oh, shit. You got this one, too. I thought Denver would be favored. But you're right. The Raiders are favored by one and a half. Well, no Bridgewater. Drewlock.

Drewlock can't be favored. Actually, I guess I forgot about that. So they're done. That's a loser. I know we've probably said this every week for the last month, but that is for sure a loser leaves town. I mean, that might just be loser. Those teams got to be out of it. Yeah. Poop fact that we got three Jets home for the last month, but that is for sure a loser leaves town. I mean, that might just be a loser. Those teams got to be out of it. Poop fact that

we got three. Jets home for the Jags. The Jets showed some stuff, I thought, this week. Even though they ended up not losing, I thought they kept fighting. Salah's got to work on his, I can't believe something good just happened face that he makes. Well, he can't believe it. What are you going to do?

You got to work. You got to seem more confident after something good just happened. You can't believe it. What are you going to do? You got to see more confident after something good just happened. You can't just be like, oh my God, we made a play. I have Jets by two and a half over the Jets. They were gritty. Two and a half. I said

four and you get it. It's only one and a half. Okay. Eagles are home for the Giants. I don't know what to think of the Jags real quick with that. I mean, maybe they are going to tank the rest of the way.

Two and twelve. Lawrence will have one good game out of these next three, right? Yeah. He couldn't have been this good in college and been this unforgettable as a pro. Here's the thing. At J't, he couldn't have been this good in college and been this unforgettable, been this forgettable as a pro. Here's the thing at jets at new England, for sure. A loss versus Indy.

That's going to be a loss too. You're right. This is one chance. Yeah. Eagles home for the giants. I think they have to knock this out of the teaser zone. I don't have Eagles by night. I don't know what happened to me.

I really need to go back to boot camp or something. Spread boot camp. I said eight and it's a, it's 10. So you get it. Last one. Buck bucks Panthers. This is in Carolina,

right? Uh, it is in Carolina. Yeah. Yeah. Let me check this because the, I, I,

I guess this before the extraordinary loss by the... I'll give you a redo if you want. No. You already know it. I'm not taking your pity. It's fine. I already lost. All right, go ahead.

I'm not going to change mine. I had Bucks by nine. I think this has to be out of the teaser zone. You know, it's 13. Oh, my God. That's stupid. Maybe it's not stupid after watching Cam try to complete passes. Yeah.

I guess you have to think of the other team, too. I said eight and a half, so you get that anyway. Good for you. Do you think when they have the QB meetings with Cam, they're like, no, you look great. I guess the one thing I might work on is like when the guys open, like throw it to the guy and not to the ground and don't throw it to the other team would be my two notes.

He's like, yeah, I'll get back to you. I'm working on my celebration. He's like, rewind my celebration dance. I got a four yard scamper in me somewhere. It's so funny when they're in the five and you just know the QB draws come in. The other team is surprised every time. It's like, of they're in the five and you just know the QB draws come in. The other team is surprised every time. It's like, of course, they have one move.

Nothing left. Sunday night, Cowboys, your Cowboys, are home for the Washington team. I would have said eight, but I'm sticking with my teaser strategy. I think they make this nine so we can't tease this with anything. Oh, I lose this again. I said

11 and a half, and it's 10. You were closer. That is straight. It is weird with the Cowboys and Chiefs. They're doing it with defense. Their defense, I mean, not the Chiefs or that Chargers game necessarily, but we beat up, we beat the

hell out of Jake Fromm. And who's the other guy? Mike Lennon with the long neck. It's nice to not have to worry about the Giants game, anyone. 21-6. That's why this whole thing, the Chargers, where it's like, I got to score touchdowns, keep up with the Chiefs. It's like, I'm not sure.

Not this Chiefs team. Maybe just try to get points and control the flow of the game. Monday night sucks. Saints, Dolphins. Tua versus Taysom Hill. Two of the gimmick QBs that we have. You could say loser leaves town here. That's maybe fun.

Okay. Loser leaves town. Seven and seven versus six and seven. I feel like the Dolphins are already like they're packed and they're at the bus station. Yeah. Both seven and seven. Saints by three. And you the bus station. Yeah. Both 7 and 7. Saints by 3. And you get this one. Wow, this might be the...

This is the most lopsided week we've ever had. I had 2.5. It's 3.5. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 to 1. The one I got was the Patriots. And the Patriots was the one I got. Your team. Wow, we've never had a shellacking like that.

My God. You just, listen, tomorrow's a new day, Sal. I can't take it. It's too much. Listen, I'm doing six podcasts a week. I'm like, oh, we got to change that. We got to re-edit that because Lockett's not playing. Oh, I said something about this guy playing.

We got to take that out. I'm dizzy from all this already. You need a break. Listen, tomorrow you have two COVID football games. Michelle Tafoya's back. Things are looking up. Cowboys are playing well. I'm going to ask

Michelle Tafoya where she was hiding because I may have to go there. Have her on a pod. That'll be great. A timeshare. Alright, it's time for Parent Corner. Today's Parent Corner is brought to you by I may have to go there. Why don't you have her on a pod? That'll be great. A timeshare. All right. It's time for Parent Corner. Today's Parent Corner is brought to you by CarMax. When you buy a car, you really want it to be a good fit for you. Finding it and buying it should also be just the way you want it.

At CarMax, you can shop on your terms online and in-store or any combo of the two. Plus, express pickup and home delivery in select markets. So learn more at CarMax.com. CarMax. Car buying. Reimagine. All right, Sal, you're up. All right.

Well, I know you like basketball. So let's talk basketball and kids. So my kid's rec league, my eight-year-old, he's going to be eight next week. His rec league was canceled. The whole thing was canceled. And I could see like two weeks, but it hasn't even started. They haven't even had practices yet. Practices and i could see like two weeks but it hasn't even started they haven't even had practices yet practices were supposed to start in two weeks and then it was supposed to go from like january to march and they can't how do you cancel a whole

season already isn't that a little crazy covid yes good guess yeah it was because of covid but is that weird that we're canceling seasons already um We can't just take it week by week for a little bit before we cancel that? Well, maybe the coaches didn't want to coach, maybe? That might be it. But that bummed me out. But my other son, my middle son, who's not as athletic as the oldest who plays football and the youngest who plays everything, has decided he wants to be the manager of the basketball team in his school. Oh yes.

And I have mixed feelings of, no, they're not even mixed. I don't, I don't like it. There's not, no, it's not one thing I like about it.

So I think he gets like towels for them and he keeps score and does other stuff at the scores table and like checks guys in. And, uh, I don't love it. What, what do you, what,

why'd you say? Oh yes. I just, I think it's good for parent corner oh okay your your son having any of your sons having an actual job i think is a win for parent corner well do i talk him out of it i mean no i'd rather him just play golf or something no talk him into it it sounds great yeah play take a really like wait horseback riding something you tweeted out i. You tweeted out, I think you tweeted out, or maybe you texted me that you went to the,

uh, Jimmy bowl and you had your sons were there, but Harry, your friend, Harry was there. Yeah. Who was shirtless swinging his shirt, trying to get the crowd going.

And then it seemed like your kids also had their shirts off. No, that wasn't them. That was the Utah state kids in the next booth. Uh, yeah, I wouldn't have that. off? No, that wasn't them. That was the Utah State kids in the next booth. Ah. Yeah, I wouldn't have that. Okay. No, that was Harry's punishment

for convincing us all to take the over. But, yeah, so those are my, I don't know. I need to be talked into this. It doesn't seem like a good spot for anyone related to me. It seems too important a job. I love it. I think you should do it.

You finished the Fox. That was the last Fox game on Thursday. Did you win that one? No, I didn't see it. I did. I won. I won my last three. I had the Chiefs.

I got lucky. They won in overtime. And now there's probably going to be three more Fox games on Tuesday. So who knows what goes on. Oh my God. That's it. My parent corner is there was a Oh my God. That's it. My, uh, my parent corner is they,

it was a secret Santa to my son's school and he didn't tell us. And then he was asking us for $15 on the morning of, I think Thursday. He's like, can I get $15? And I was like, just go on my wallet. I think there's a 20 in there.

It's like, no, I need 15 so my wife who now can see through everything with him was like all right what's going on why do you need $15 and he's like because we have secret Santa at school and the gift was supposed to be like $15 so I was gonna just give somebody $15 really no that's not how it works he's like like, all right, all right, right. I have an idea for a gift. And he disappears, comes back and he's got some envelope. And, uh, and my wife's like, what's that? What's in the envelope? And he's like, no, I got, I had a gift and my wife's super suspicious. So grabs the envelope, opens it. And it's my

son's bracelet. One of like, he. A bunch of different weird bracelets he wears. One of the bracelets, he was putting the envelope like it was a new bracelet, and that was what he was going to give for Secret Santa. So my wife intervened on that, and then they finally figured out some sort of gift. But he was going to keep the cash and give a used bracelet that he was done with?

Yeah. Yeah, that's how it went. I love it. So we interviewed on that and then we tried to explain to him the you know, the spirit of Christmas and giving and all of those things, which apparently went right over his head.

You know what's good? I would recommend to him, and I'm a loser so this might not be good for everyone. Scratch off lottery tickets. People are excited to see scratch off lottery tickets. Great idea. You're right. Right?

At any age, really. Yeah. Any age. Yeah. Scratch off lottery tickets. There's always a prayer that you win $100, $1,000. Probably not. Probably I'll lose them all, but it's fun.

The other thing with my son, he's now doing like 100 push-ups and sit-ups a day and now has like an eight pack and walks around like Michael Phelps and all of us just like, what's going on? I don't know what's going to happen when he starts lifting. Like I'm honestly scared. Michael Phelps fell in love with the bong. So that's what's going to happen. Maybe that'll work. Did your, did your son have to lift for football? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And still in the off season. Did he, was he, did he get ripped after that? It changes.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. This is going to be some subplot. Yeah. Cause he's playing tackle next year. So there's this whole thing. And I, I can't wait to,

uh, to narrate it here in parent. You're going to have to be the one wearing the helmet though, around the house. If he's, if he's ripped and wearing playing. Well, that's the thing.

He now like tackles me when I'm lying on the couch and he's always trying to get in fights. It's like having a dog. Anyway, yeah, Kyle, watch out. He comes over, he thinks Kyle is like a tackling dummy and Kyle will like kick his ass. Oh, that's it for Kyle. Anyway.

All right, that's it for Parent Corner. Today's Parent Corner is brought to you by CarMax. The CarMax love your car guarantee. Let you test drive a car for 24 hours. That means you can see how it really feels when you use it for a day. Like when you're taking the kids to practice or driving around and see the family during the holidays, make your test drive count.

Learn more at CarMax.com. CarMax. Car buying reimagined. All right. So next time I'm going to see you, it will be after Christmas. That's right. Yeah,

that's right. We're going to, we're going to record day after Christmas. That's right. Yeah. That's right. We're going to, we're going to record day after Christmas. Cause why the hell not? Let's do it. We don't take weeks off. We're not like the NBC crew. Yeah. You can't.

We're here. We're part of people's lives. Yeah. I love it. In fact, I have a, I have Fox bet live tomorrow and we're on right opposite the Vegas, uh, Cleveland game. So no one's going to watch us, but maybe we're on just one the Vegas-Cleveland game so no one's going to watch us. We're on just when it

kicks off. I can't even imagine anybody watching us because it's at 2pm out here. Savvy. The Extra Points Podcast Network against the Lodz tomorrow. We'll go over the Monday night football game, first touchdown, props, all kinds of stuff. Awesome. Well, I'll see you.

I'll talk to you on text I'll never see you again for the Zoom we're all in our houses forever for the Zoom I wish you a Merry Christmas stay safe

and and I hope you do better next week gambling wise thank you I don't want somber sound next week

I want like happy life of the party I just want all these bets sound next week I know just the problem is I can only afford scratch-off lottery tickets for my kids this year.

All right. Good job, Bayou. Good job, Bayou. All right. The Ringers. Kevin O'Connor is here. We are taping this on Sunday night NBA trades after dark. We like to call it. We should probably call it, are we sure we're going to have a season after dark. We like to call it, uh, we should probably call it. Are we sure we're going

to have a season after dark? I'm, I'm not concerned. They're going to cancel the season, but I've also never seen anything like this where all hell is broken loose. You've covered a little on the mismatch with Verno a few days ago, but now we're in a situation where they're starting to cancel games. People are wondering if they're going to just press the pause button for two weeks, which I don't really necessarily know how that's going to help because it seems like we're going to keep getting the positive tests and all this stuff. So I don't really know what the answer other than just kind of put your head down and keep going forward. Am I wrong? What do you think? I mean, that's what it seems like they're going to be doing. I mean, two weeks to quote unquote

flatten the curve is not going to do anything for the NBA or for any of us. So for the NBA at this point, it seems like my impression is, Bill, that they're going to just deal with the replacement players. You're going to have a bunch of G leaguers, former NBA guys like Isaiah Thomas getting opportunities. And teams are just going to plow through this next couple of two, three weeks, two, three months, whatever it might be. And they're going to try to avoid as many cancellations as they possibly can. The difficulty here is though, with these postponements, all these arenas are booked up with, you know, NHL games, college graduations, concerts, whatever other type of events, it's going to be a lot harder than it was last season when they were largely unbooked to reschedule

a lot of these games. So for the NBA, I mean, there's a heck of a lot of challenges for the next couple of weeks here, but it seems like the replacement players are going to be ugly basketball, but it's going to work for teams to at least get through the games. A couple of things. There will be noon or 1 p.m. afternoon games,

I think, just to move things along. If arenas are booked, they can still have like a 12 o'clock Wednesday afternoon game if I think, just to move things along. If arenas are booked, they can still have like a 12 o'clock Wednesday afternoon game. If they have to get them under the wire, they can refund season ticket orders, whatever. Second thing, this is setting up for one of the great sports movies of all time because we had this with Keanu Reeves and the Replacements, a movie that has been circling the Rewatchables feed now for three, four years. It's always on. So maybe that is, has been circling the rewatchables feed now for three, four years. It's always on. So people, more people than me must like it. But that premise of that was,

it was an NFL strike season. Keanu's this, he's Shane Falco, the former college quarterback who went down in disgrace, comes back, gets his second chance. This is going to happen in some of these NBA games. I mean, Isaiah Thomas is a famous example of that, but we both know that there's just a shitload of talent out there. And sometimes it comes down to, I just never got a chance. You know, look at Gary Payton the second, you know, he's 28 years old and has every team has stared at him, but now all of a sudden, you know, he was able to find his way in a championship rotation. But do you feel like there's some sports movie potential, some guys that nobody knows about floating out there ready?

I mean, I was thinking about that over the weekend. I was texting with an executive. I was like, do you think there's any G leaguers right now who are going to get an opportunity and they're going to stick in the league? And he says to me, almost exactly what you said. No, it's going to be more like the replacements with Keanu Reeves. It's just going to be ugly. I'm not sure if he just wasn't showing his cards with the G-League race he likes.

But yeah, I mean, I think there's potential here. You got Isaiah Thomas signing with the Lakers bill and he looks solid in his first game. There's potential a guy like Isaiah Thomas stays on a roster the entire season as a moment in the playoffs. And they got that opportunity because of the absences now. And I mean, there's a, there's a lot of ways to discuss what's going down right now in the world

and in the NBA. But there are a lot of people getting an opportunity. They otherwise never would have gotten, whether it's the names we know, like Isaiah Thomas or the names that we don't know. I hope we get a guy who, you know, carves out a role, even they're like a 15-minute per game player and they're making hundreds of thousands of dollars

or millions of dollars because of the opportunity that they're given during the stretch. I think that would make a pretty good story. Well, you'd think like Daniel Gafford last year who was just an afterthought in the Bulls for a while and then goes to Washington all of a sudden and is like, whoa, look at this guy. Who's this? And it was just an afterthought in the Bulls for a while and then goes to Washington all of a sudden.

It was like, whoa, look at this guy. Who's this? And it was just an opportunity. We know there are talented guys. There's the Marvin Bagley types that you look at it and you go, all right, well, what would it be like if somebody just played him for 35 minutes a game for three solid weeks?

Would he put up stats? Could you win with somebody like that? But I do think there's guys like that. And then there's the guys who, for whatever reason, nobody gave them a chance. They go overseas. Maybe they come back.

They're usually in that 25 to 28 range. Maybe they had some baggage in their early 20s that they've kind of settled their life down. But that's going to be one wrinkle. I think the other thing is, if we miss games, and especially with the play-in tournament

and it comes down to so-and-so has 78 games and the other team has 80 games and things like that, I think the playoffs could be really complicated to figure out. And they're complicated in general. You look at the West and I don't really like anybody other than what? The top three, the top four. And you start looking at every team. You go down Dallas, Denver, Clippers, and you could poke holes in all of these teams, which is why I think the Memphis thing has been so much fun.

But who knows? Yeah, I mean, we'll see about that. One other thought that's been on my mind this weekend is how much does, and I'm curious about this for you, Bill, how much does the last couple of years with all the COVID factors in the NBA change the way that you'll assess this period of NBA history? So now I'm going to get in trouble, but I do think the bubble playoffs were both an incredible achievement, but then also something that we just have to, it's not an asterisk. It's just was such a different way to have a playoffs where everybody was able to get in shape on their own terms. And then it was basically this 10 week sprint that seemed to rely a lot on how close the team was,

um, how healthy you could be, how you can handle being in the bubble. So I, I don't know if it was, I wouldn't say it was worth less than a normal playoffs, but I just think it has no comparison to any other playoffs we've had. There's no way to compare that to any other season. So it's just kind of over here and it's impressive the Lakers won and Miami fought through all that stuff. But I think maybe the same will end up happening this year in some ways, just because we're going to see teams that are good, that maybe because of COVID or some fallback, are going to be a six seed instead of a three seed. Or they're going to be in the play-in tournament instead of being a four seed. And the obstacles they have to overcome, I just think are going to be a six seed instead of a three seed, or they're going to be in the play in tournament instead of being a four seed and the obstacles they have to overcome, I just think are going to be harder. We saw how that derailed the Lakers last year. Yeah. I mean, and we'll also see how the NBA changes the protocols. I mean, the NFL just made it. So what is it that only

vaccinated vaccinated players are tested if they choose to, or if they had a high risk, you know, close contact, but they're not getting tested daily like unvaccinated players were and the athletic had the story last week saying that the nba thought about it but they're not going to do it yet well i mean maybe they'll do it by april for the playoffs right or wrong whether that's the correct thing to do um i mean that would also change the way these playoffs are going to be handled too because you know if you're having you're having a fully vaccinated team, that means technically you're not getting tested daily like teams would be that have unvaccinated players. I mean, it further incentivizes players to get vaccinated, even if that doesn't stop transmission of the virus. Strange times ahead.

Strange times, Bill. Speaking of strange, Kyrie now coming back and, you know, the story coming out this weekend was like, you know, the Nets have reevaluated this. They need bodies. They need help. They can't afford to be precious anymore. Conspiracy Bill, of course, is going in a completely different direction. I think they're looking at him. And I'm not reporting this, so don't aggregate it. I just think they're looking at him as an asset.

They're trying to make their team better. They don't have enough for him to title. You can't trade him if he's not playing, right? Why else would you do a 180 on where you were two months ago? Makes no sense to me. There's two options here. One option is they know they can't trade him unless he's playing. The other option is Durant, which has been rumored.

And who knows if this is true or not, but Durant really went to management for the first time and was like, hey, let the guy play. What are we doing here? So I think it's one of those two. I personally think it is the Kyrie trade possibilities and the fact that you can't trade this guy if he's not playing. What do you think? I think it's simply the fact that Kevin Durant is playing 37 minutes per game and he's coming off of a major, major, major injury. And they're like, we can't keep doing this. I mean, Steve Nash spoke about it last week, Bill. He said, I mean, like, he's been amazing.

He wants to play every minute. He's producing in every minute. He's playing an MVP level, but we can't keep doing this. So, I mean, for the Nets here, I think it makes logical sense to protect Kevin Durant more than anything else. And I'm sure him going to management is probably a factor, but even just

simply from their standpoint, protecting Kevin Durant is of the utmost importance. You have to find out if Kyrie is an asset or not. Either he's an asset that can help you this season, or he's an asset that you can turn into an asset that can help you this season, or he's an asset that you can turn into an asset that can help you this season. But one or the other, he can't help you if he's not playing. I think it's suspicious that in two months, they went from being like, no, this is what we got to

do. We don't want to distract the team to being like, hey, welcome back. He's just going to play road games. These are smart people. You don't just do a 180 for no reason. There has to be a reason. I think, I mean, to your point, Bill, I mean, like I said, I think short term, it's 100% to protect Kevin Durant, to alleviate the workload on him, try to get his minutes down. But the trade rumors about Kyrie Irving being a guy that are open to dealing, that's not going to go away. It's 100% not going to go away. So with Kyrie Irving, if you get a month plus of him producing

still at an all nba level that's naturally going to make any other team say like a dallas mavericks a team that wants a secondary ball handling presence that is in a state that doesn't have the rules that new york does so kairi could be a every game player a team like that might find actual reason to play kairi irving because right now we don't know what Kyrie is going to look like. Not having basketball conditioning, not playing for a couple of months now. He looks lean, very thin in some of the videos that have been posted online. He probably needs to get back into basketball shape. We'll see what level of player he is.

I'm sure it won't take long for him to get back to the Kyrie Irving we've seen for years. But for the Nets, their priority now is protecting Katie. And whether that means keeping Kyrie Irving long-term or not, it's about protecting Kevin Durant. So the fourth year of that contract, when he's making $53 million, is not an albatross. They need to keep him healthy. Well, you said that Kyrie is back to the player he used to be.

That also includes the player he used to be, which is a rollercoaster ride. You're right. Right? And Katie has seen that now for a couple of years now, Bill. He's seen that too. Well, this shows to me there's desperation in some form. The league is better, right?

And I think they know that if they have no Kyrie, even if Harden even plays better than he does, even if he can make some sort of trade, who knows if Joe Harris could be on the table at some point for a trade. But they don't have enough, I don't think, to win four straight playoff rounds with this current roster.

They do miss that Kyrie, Adlib, wild card, rational confidence, could score 16 points in a quarter thing. But you're also getting all the stuff that comes with it. And he's been pretty erratic now for really since the 2016-17 season. So you're getting that too. So you don't think they have enough right now to get through the Bucs, Bulls, Heat? I don't think they have enough to get through the Bucs unless the Bucs have somebody that get injured. I mean, the Bucs have been pretty dominant with their big three. I just think if they're healthy, I'm still taking them.

And Giannis and KD, if you could just cancel them out. Let's say KD's awesome in this series and Giannis is awesome. We're canceling it out. And now we're just going two through 12 against each other. I like the Bucs. If I'm betting my life on it, I'm betting the Bucs. And I think the Nets need to look at the center position. Aldridge has been pretty good. Blake Griffin has not been the same guy. Nick Claxton, I love him. I love Nick Claxton so much. He's so switchable.

But he hasn't proven that he can stay healthy, hasn't proven that he can play heavy minutes with any consistency. Paul Millsap's not the same guy. De'Ron Sharp's only a rookie. All their other quote-unquote bigs are actually smaller guys like Bruce Brown. So for Brooklyn, they've got to be scouring the market here for another big in their rotation for the inevitable you know potential playoff series against the yannis and if brooke lopez is playing for that matter it even emphasizes the need for finding a big even more so i mean for brooklyn they're not they're

not a complete roster i think they should be number two behind milwaukee in the east in my opinion agree but they do need some changes regardless well the good news for them is that's the easiest position to find somebody everybody has a lot of mix everybody has too many centers and nobody really wants to play their centers in general it's about 48 minutes for a center but then sometimes teams go small so maybe it's like 36 minutes what uh what uh what does and the Nets say if Dallas calls up and they say, hey, KP for Kyrie? Yeah. I mean, we've been kind of circling that one for a while. I think this is when we get to fake trades after dark. If I'm Dallas, I'm trying to figure out a way to keep KP at least for now and try to figure out how I can improve the team without sacrificing KP,

even though it's weird to say sacrifice because I'm not even sure how much value he has. I think if you turn Kyrie into KP, you do it. If I'm the Nets, why am I doing that? Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't do it if I'm Brooklyn. Could I just get Robin Lopez or somebody on that caliber and roll the dice with that kind of caliber of player, try to grab somebody in the five to eight million or wait till a buyout guy.

They'll be first in line for buyouts guys. Jacob Purtle, Jacob Purtle from San Antonio. How about that name? I'd target him. So he's, what's he making like eight or nine. He's in that age,

right? Eight or $9 million, two years left. Can't shoot free throws. That's about all he can't do. Well, that gets to NBA trades after dark. The one that I was all excited to spring on you,

and then I actually did some hardcore research on it, and it got to a, wait a second, I don't even know if they do that, was the Murray-Simmons trade that's been out there. It's an easy one. It's DeJounte Murray and Thad Young for Simmons. And for San Antonio, it's a reboot, and you could argue from their side, like they're now getting a top 25 guy on paper. At least he was last year with

a higher upside, maybe the Murray, but man, first of all, the eye test with Murray, uh, he's turned into a fairly dominant end of the game guy. Like if you're doing rankings of point guards, I think he's vaulted a couple of dudes this year. Uh, he's got, he's got a real attitude to him. There was a Celtic game a while ago where, um, he just kinda, he had a little something, something, little extra, and maybe that's a two year injury that he had, but sometimes that's a year and a half sometimes too. But then defensively, he's like 19 and eight a game. And if I'm the Spurs, I don't think I'd do it. I think I would rather keep him than deal with the Simmons soap opera. What do you think?

How about Derek White in place of DeJounte Murray? No, I'm off. If I'm Sixers, I'm off. I need somebody. At least give me somebody good. What if San Antonio is adding additional picks in addition to that? Or is it just a no-go with Derek White in a deal? You need Murray.

I need somebody that will help me try to make the finals this year because I have the window with Embiid. Otherwise, I'm keeping Simmons. I mean, I think it's at the point with San Antonio with DeJounte Murray. He's improved a little bit every year as a jump shooter. And the last couple of weeks, he's shooting the ball better than ever before. It looks smoother than ever. And we'll see how the results play out over the course of the season. But I'm with you, Bill, with this Dante Murray. His defense has for a long time been all defensive caliber. Offensively, he's been able to pass for a long time.

Now his at-room finishing is very good. He's gotten a floater better mid-range. His jump shot has gotten better. And he's become like a virtual triple-double guy every single night. And like, obviously, triple-doubles, Russell Westbrook, blah, blah, blah, this and that. But he's become like a virtual triple double guy every single night and like obviously triple doubles russell westbrook blah blah blah this and that but he's putting up numbers i mean he's not turning the ball over he's rebounding the ball and creating transition opportunities he's scoring with better efficiency like i think for san antonio he's gotten to the point where

he's not a an untradeable there's very few untradeable players, but he's at that, at that level where it's like, do we really want to give him up for a guy that sat out the whole year that might not want to be here? That only has one, one extra year left on his contract over Murray. I don't, I don't see San Antonio doing that. I think they're in a position now where it's like,

they're looking for Yanker Purtle deals. Cause they have Zach Collins coming back soon. They signed him to a $22 million deal for three years. So very young or Derek White. They're two older young guys. White's 27, Purtle's 26. Keeping all the guys who are under 25 years old would be my expectation for San Antonio. I think I agree. I don't think I would trade Murray for Simmons. Which is weird to say, isn't it? Imagine before the year, if you had said like, yeah, Murray for young for Simmons, that's the whole trade that would be on the table. If you told me that in September, Which is weird to say, isn't it? The other thing is he's hitting that with the Mike Conley, like 10, 11 years ago range where he's just now a really good player on a team that nobody's really watching and nobody's focused on.

And there's going to be about two years here as the people on basketball, the basketball universe, like underrated, underrated. I think he might be the new underrated guy. I think he's submitting his candidacy. Some people graduate from that, you know, kind of like DeRozan. I mean, DeR his candidacy. Some people graduate from that, you know?

Kind of like DeRozan. I mean, DeRozan, for a couple of years in San Antonio, he's getting better every year, becoming an elite ISO score, better as a passer. And then he goes to Chicago and suddenly, whoa, DeRozan's actually way better than he was in Toronto. DeJounte Murray could definitely see the same thing happen. Yeah, so I'm scrapping that one.

I'm trying to figure out, I have a Dallas thing, but why don't you go with your trade and then I'll do mine after. All right, I'm going to go with something that relates to a conversation I had with a handful of NBA people over the last week. This is not reporting or anything. But with the Montessor bonus, I've been asking around, who are the teams to watch out for? And a handful of people have said to me look out for some you know younger teams teams that might not actually be contending

contending teams right now and so one of them mentioned think about teams that have had interests in him in the past so i'll go straight to oklahoma city the team that actually had him and drafted him oklahoma city trading derrick favors and you know however many picks it takes with their 400 first round picks they have to get sabonis pairing him with shea gildas alexander you get sabonis at 25 years old you're able to consolidate your picks now which is going to happen eventually they have too many picks they're going to have to consolidate whether that happens on draft night or free agency or before the deadline, it's going to happen. So why not do it for Sabonis,

the guy that they've been proven to like before, considering they drafted him, they have all these picks. He's only 25 years old. He fits a position of need. He'd be an ideal fit with Gildas Alexander. Cause Sabonis can move the ball, can play without the ball. They could run,

pick and roll together. I mean, to me, like it just makes way too much sense for Oklahoma City to at least explore that. And not only that, Bill, they'd still suck. They could still get a high pick with their own first rounder. Well, I think if you did that, you'd have to hire the person who tried to injure Tanya Harding to try to just take him out with a calf injury for six weeks so he wouldn't play. I actually think if you had him, Lou Dort in SGA, I actually think you'd have

to be worried you're winning down the stretch. I think you really have to have a conversation. Lou Dort's been going nuts. You see Haralobob tweeting about him the other day? Oh, yeah. I love Bob being back on Twitter now that he's not with Dallas anymore. He's a great Twitter presence. Yeah, he's a binge. He's like Deion Waiters, too.

He's like a binge tweeter. He'll get fired up about something. He's just firing him out. But Lou He's like a binge-tweeter. He'll get fired up about something. He's just firing him out. Baloo North's been awesome. That dude's figuring it out. The shooting is still not consistent, but it's better than it was when he had the 0-for-8 in the playoff series between OKC and Houston

a couple years ago. That dude's averaging nearly 20 points per game. The tragedy is that they didn't thank Shagoon with that pick. And I can't believe they didn't because they're in the upside business, right? And that's like that was the ultimate upside guy in the draft. And they kind of rolled them over into these two more future

picks when I don't know. I just would have taken them. So it's a bonus on a young team. I like it. At the same time, I kind of want them in this year's playoffs in some form. I keep looking at the Celtics trying to figure out how to make it happen. Makes sense. Makes sense. So you don't think there's any sort of a smart Robert Williams type of thing that could work for both sides there? Sure. Yeah. I don't see why not. Boston is 100% one of the teams that I think make a lot of sense for Sabonis. No doubt about it. I guess for me, I don't know what Carlisle wants. Because what we know with Carlisle is if you're a Sabonis, you're a poor Zingas. You're some sort of center that likes to have the ball either away from the basket or you have to run.

He's not a huge fan of that, right? He's a fan of perimeter guys where the offense can revolve around them with shooters and the ball moves. But what's weird about Sabonis is the ball moves with Sabonis. I would have thought that would have been a Carlisle guy, but it doesn't seem like either. He can't figure out how to play him with Turner. He just doesn't like him. I don't know.

What's your take on that? I mean, Carlisle, he did the same thing with Chris Haps Porzingis and rightfully did it. I mean, Porzingis stunk at post-ups a couple of years ago and he minimized it, and he's a good three-point shooter for his size. Sabonis, it doesn't make sense. He's a pretty good post player, a pretty good elbow facilitator, and a poor three-point shooter. I mean, it's not a fit between Carlisle and Sabonis. So for them, I mean, I think Sabonis has been a little bit undervalued

through all of this, like the way people are talking about him. I mean, he's 25 years old. He's a two-time all-star, has the ability to generate offense for you. On Zach Lowe's pod last week when I was on with him, Zach made the point Sabonis isn't the type of guy where he whips the ball around the floor. He likes to hold it. And I think that's true, but it's definitely true in Indiana,

but I'd love to see him with more talent around him. You know, if he's on a team with a heck of a lot of talent, we've seen flashes of Sabonis keeping the ball moving fast. And to me, he's one of those situational players that in Oklahoma city, his rookie year, he was like a deer in headlights. They had him doing simple stuff, picking pops to Russell Westbrook. It didn't work in Indiana. He's turned into an all-star, but he's in a situation where he's needed to facilitate so much of the offense. He's developed some of those habits.

I'd love to see him fall into a situation now. As I said to you a couple weeks ago, I'd love to see him on Golden State. I mean, I'd love to see him develop at 25 years old in a situation like that and see what he turns into. But, I mean, honestly, like I said, I think whether it's a young team or these contending teams,

there are 20-plus teams that should be going after Sabonis. 20-plus teams that should be going after him. So, like, these deal ideas we have, I wonder how much of a bidding war Indiana would be able to create. If all these teams should go after Sabonis, how serious, how many of them are very serious

to the point that that price gets driven up? Because there's not many other players available that are anywhere near the caliber of him. If I'm the Celtics, I want to figure out how do I get Tatum Brown and Sabonis on the same team? I don't even care who else is on it. I'll figure out the rest later. Let me start with those three guys and I'll figure out how to make it work around them. I would overpay for Sabonis. I'm a huge Sabonis guy. You know, you mentioned how he's like, you said he was a pretty good elbow facilitator. One thing that he's really good at,

and the Pacers would do this over and over again with him, especially late in games, is when they would inbound off, you know, like 10 seconds left, seven seconds left, they would inbound to him. And he's almost like an RPO quarterback where he can pretend he's going to hand off and he'll just take off and go to the basket or he's, he's just kind of sneaky. And I I'm always disappointed that they haven't figured out a way how to tap into that. Because

I think there's this, it's like how we talk about like golden state, like somebody like B elitist that just goes there and it's like, Oh, he makes sense on this team. I don't feel like Sabonis has found the team he's made sense on yet. And if I was... I think if he was on Chicago in the Vucevic spot, I think he'd be really good on that team with the team that they have. I think the right team's going to

find him. Maybe it'll be OKC. I mean, the question is, will it affect Poku? What do we do with Poku at that point? I mean, you can't take away Poku's minutes that would be a crime pick and roll some him and Poku maybe that's their lottery strategy

Poku's too important to that team for their lottery odds alright here's my trade there was a lot of Ben Simmons Dallas buzz which there was a fake trade out there I didn't see but I was trying to figure out alright what would that be you've heard that buzz too Bill?

I know I'm just saying it was on the internet doesn't mean it's true but it does make sense for Dallas like you'd think that's the type of guy I could see playing with Luka Doncic on paper if they could keep Porzingis and have Luka

and you have Simmons and Porzingis and have Luka, and you have Simmons and Porzingis, and Porzingis is 25 feet from the basket, and Simmons is low, I kind of like those two together. I'd like Luka to be 20 pounds lighter. I'm going to put that in there as this 20 pounds lighter and more healthy. That's the key. No matter what the deal is you're about to say, Bill,

Luka getting in the best shape of his life is the key. Less hookah, less late nights out. So, could there be a three-teamer where we get Siakam involved? And Philly basically ends up with Siakam and Brunson. Dallas ends up with Simmons. And Toronto ends up with Maxie Klieber and Tim Hardaway and Schraber. No.

For Toronto? No. What else is going on in Toronto? And there's a pick? Another pick and another pick? There's got to be more picks than that for Siakam, Bill. Yeah. I'm giving them other stuff.

I don't think it's enough. Not enough? Why do you like Siakam so much? Toronto's going to get more than that for Siakam. I mean, he's still super young. I know he's expensive. I know he's got the big contract. I know they have a bunch of wings and forwards,

and he should be a guy they consider trading. But for those names you just listed, no. No, I don't think so. I think with Siakam, he's become a little bit underrated here, Bill. It's like with Sabonis. Yeah, he's not a perfect player, and he might not necessarily be worth that contract, and he's not shooting the ball as well as he did a couple years ago but he's still got talent he's not a bad player and he's only 27 21 and 8 in december 18 and 7 in november the three-point shooting

has gone off a cliff yeah it has down to 30, I think, the 1920 season? The bubble year? You can make a case he's had one decent three-point shooting season, and then other than that, he kind of is who he is. And the other thing that would worry about me, and why I think he's less of an asset than you, is he's the guy that... There's some guys that if they're going to play 36, 37 minutes, they're going to get to 20 points. Porzingis is like that. Porzingis always gets to 20 points, but he also is playing 34, 35 minutes some days. I just think he's less of an asset than you. It's funny.

I was thinking if I'm Philly, is that enough? Like has Siakam shown that there's enough there? Like he's 27. You know, he's not young anymore. I kind of feel like he's where Wiggins is, right? And Wiggins is the best version of Wiggins that we've seen this year, but Wiggins is kind of, at this point he is who he is. I don't think there's a leap for him to go. He's, I think he can get better at a bunch of stuff, which he did this year, but you know, he is what he is like, whatever, when we thought like he had a chance to be maple Jordan, all that stuff,

like that's not happening. I think Siakam is who he is at this point. He could give you, in the right situation, 18-7 and some good defense. So, with your assessment of this trade for Toronto, part of you was looking at this as like, this is a guy making $30 million who isn't necessarily worth $30 million for the way you want to build this team out. Bingo.

I'm getting out of some money. I'm getting hard away at a cheaper price. And I'm getting out of some money. I'm getting hard away at a cheaper price. And I'm getting Kleber, who I feel like I can play at center right now because I don't really have great centers, or I could just flip him in a different trade piece. I'm basically cutting back on money, and I'm making it

clear I'm building around Scotty Barnes and Van Vliet and a couple other guys. The other piece they need to figure out is the Drogic because I think Dallas is kind of waiting on Drogic to get bought out. And that seems like a staring contest. Maybe he's like a side deal, a buyout.

Right. His way to Dallas as part of something like that. As part of the deal, they buy him out and then Dallas picks him up. All right, you were less lukewarm on that. I can't figure out how to get Ben Simmons to Dallas because somebody's got to get excited about Hardaway. I mean, if they do get Ben Simmons to Dallas,

I hope Jason Kidd is able to figure out how to use the KP post-ups because it's way too often when they have two bigs on the floor like Dwight Powell and KP that Powell or whoever it might be is a non-threat and they have Porzingis near the paint

and Luka doesn't have driving lanes to get to the basket and Luka's already not in the best shape. So, I mean, it's all these factors coming together where if you add Ben Simmons to KP, they're going to really have to have KP back in the Carl shape so i mean like it's all these factors coming together where if you add ben simmons to kp they're gonna really have to have kp back in the carlisle style role where he's spacing the floor a lot and can't post up as often but you have that lineup lineup flexibility i think pretty sweet imagine like a front court a small ball lineup with simmons and luca or simmons powell and luca like You provide size, versatility.

It's intriguing for them to get a guy like Simmons with that fit. I don't know how it works, though. I don't either. I think in that three-way, Siakam's being undervalued for Toronto. I understand your points about the salary aspect. He's going to be making $35 million in the last year of his contract. But I think Toronto, if you're moving Siakam, I'd want a true big and not Kliba in return.

The most fun trade that solves everybody's thing is Porzingis and Kyrie. It's so fun. And maybe you throw Simmons in there and it's the three-way. Simmons goes to Dallas, Kyrie goes to Philly, Porzingis goes to

Brooklyn. That's definitely the most fun. That would be a great... If something like that were to happen, we need a massive deal. Just like this 2K style deal to happen. I'd love that. Well, for playoff purposes, San Antonio decided to trade Murray and Young for Simmons. It's the most fun playoff rank we could have because I think

Philly would be really good at that point. I think we're learning that Maxie, relying on him as like your 35 minutes a game point guard probably isn't the greatest idea if you're trying to win the title. But if he's coming off the bench as he checkpoints and stuff like that, makes a little more sense. But Murray on the big stage all of a sudden in Philly,

I think the Philly fans would love him. Oh yeah, they'd fall in love. But that's why he's probably not going to trade either. All right. Well, once again We've tried to trade Ben Simmons And I don't think we came up with a good solution Sabonis, who knows, you might be right

Maybe it's a young team, we'll see though It just seems like OKC Just wants to collect picks I guess we'll find out, one of these times I gotta go in KOC, you're on the mismatch You got The Void as well And you're also writing for TheRinger.com, a great website Good to see you Thank you, Bill That's it for the podcast, thanks to Cousin Sal KOC, you're on The Mismatch. You got The Void as well. And you're also writing for TheRinger.com, a great website.

Good to see you. Thank you, Bill. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Thanks to Kevin O'Connor. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, who produced this podcast, as always. And we'll be back on this feed on Tuesday.

Don't forget, Rewatchables is moving from Monday to Wednesday this week. So be ready for that as well. See you on Tuesday.