The Bill Simmons Podcast - Fields to the Pats? Plus Masters Bets and David Alan Grier | With Danny Kelly and Joe House

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Danny Kelly to discuss the Jets trading QB Sam Darnold to the Panthers, as well as who wants to trade for the Dolphins’ sixth overall pick, who’s at the top of Danny’s mock draft board, and more (3:00). Then Bill talks with Joe House about his favorite bets for the upcoming Masters Tournament (40:15). Finally Bill is joined by actor and comedian David Alan Grier to discuss working with Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence on the film ‘Boomerang’; some awesome stories from ‘In Living Color’; David’s new series on Netflix with Jamie Foxx, ‘Dad Stop Embarrassing Me!’; and much more (1:06:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Me and Chris Ryan breaking it down. Coming up, I have an action packed podcast for you. The ringers, Danny Kelly is going to talk about all the NFL draft movements. Specifically. Can the Patriots get Justin Fields? Oh my God.

We're also going to talk to my buddy Joe House of the Fairway Rolling podcast. We're going to get some master's picks from him. And then the one, the only, the legend, David Alan Greer, who I can't remember if he's ever on an ESPN podcast with me, but he has never been on a Ringer podcast. And he's one of my all-time favorites. And we talked about a whole bunch of great stuff. This is a really, really, really good podcast. I can't believe it's free. I can't believe it.

First, Pearl Jam. All right, we are taping this. It is 1130 Pacific time. So if there's another massive NFL trade today, I'm sorry. If there's something on the level of Sam Darnold going to the Panthers, perfect time to bring in Danny Kelly from the Ringer. He is one of our main NFL guys. You can hear him on the level of Sam Darnold going to the Panthers. Perfect time to bring in Danny Kelly from the ringer. He is one of our main NFL guys. You can hear him on the ringer NFL show. He does an awesome draft guide for us with mock drafts that change. He sent me a little special top 15 mock draft that you're kind of between

mock drafts on the website. So he did a little, little tweak. I I'm starting here. Three days ago, I gave in. I talked myself into Justin Fields to the Patriots. McShay laid the seeds. He had the trade up. Everybody went nuts about the Pats trading up to 11 to get Fields. I'm already on record as saying I love Fields. I don't understand why he's dropping out of the top four. And now there are real signs of hope here for the Patriots from looking at the guide.

And you had them, you think they have to trade to number eight, Washington, to get up there. Yeah, it's either going to be, well, there's three spots they could trade. Number four to the Falcons, because it sounds like the Falcons are open for business potentially if the right deal comes along. Number seven to the Lions? Or number eight with the Carolina Panthers? And I think all three of those potential scenarios make sense for the Patriots to do that.

Now, I guess I was going to ask you this. Do you think the Patriots will kind of go against their typical MO and trade up in this scenario? I think after having a year without a quarterback, you kind of remember, oh, wait, that is important. Yeah. So I was looking, we have the top three and it really seems like Mac Jones is going to the Niners. We can talk about that later.

And Atlanta is the first, there's, there's three swing teams right now. Atlanta is the first swing team at four. You had in the mock draft, you sent me that you're still tinkering with. You think they take Kyle Pitts if they keep the pick. Yeah. Yeah. I think ultimately he's the best player. He's the most talented non-quarterback in this

draft, I think. He is and I think I've seen more people saying this over and over. He is just like a truly special prospect. You don't see many guys like him. And when you look at some of the other positions like tackle or receiver, even these classes are very deep or pits is basically he's in a tier of zone by far at the tight end position. In fact, you could probably call him just a pass catcher. And even then he might be a tier in a tier of

zone. So that's kind of why I went there. I think the Falcons are one of those teams that could trade back. They are also in the running for a quarterback, honestly. Like there's some people that believe that they'll take a quarterback here. And it sounds like, based on a report by Mortensen the other day,

said it sounds like the GM, Terry Fontenot, and head coach Arthur Smith are sort of in disagreement about what they want to do here. So I think Arthur Smith thinks that Matt Ryan's still got some life in his legs, you know, and it could last another couple of seasons. Gives them a floor, which I kind of tend to agree with. And honestly, like the cap situation there would point to them sticking with Ryan and kind of building that foundation.

So ultimately, I went sort of with the head coach on this one. I think that they're going to either trade back here or take an elite prospect by Kyle Pitts and kind of just go from there. If you're Arthur Smith, you're not like in the situation that Shanahan was in with the 49ers where you're like, I know I have this job for the next seven years, whatever I'm going to craft the team I want.

If you're him, you're like Matt Ryan's still good. I'll have a chance to compete. I could get basically the best non-quarterback in this draft. We were a team that was weirdly competitive for what our record was last year. And you add a couple pieces and two savvy free agent signings, whatever. And then all of a sudden, maybe we're a 10 and 16, who knows, versus we take a quarterback project, as has been mentioned, ad nauseum all over the place,

you have 50-50 chance when you're drafting a quarterback, basically. Those are the odds. Those are the odds for the last 10 years. Those are the odds for the last 20 years, the last 50 years. It's a one in two chance you struck oil. And you even think like the Sam Darnold draft, that was probably less than 50% if Sam's basically the swing. So if you're him, you're like, let's just keep Matt Ryan, take Pitts.

I've actually been studying this draft, and you know I don't watch college football, but I am able to throw myself into a draft. The Pitts thing to me, Pitts seems like the all-time no-brainer pick where you just look at the big picture of the NFL and you go, all right, Kelsey and Gronk were game-changing

people at their position for the last 12 years, and all those dudes did were play-changing people at their position for the last 12 years. And all those dudes did were play in playoff games as one of the key players in their team. Everyone else was jealous of them. And then you go in a fantasy situation, you're in an auction, you pay $28 for Kelsey or 22 or 31, whatever it is. And he's the highest paid tight end.

And it seems high and you're like, wow, I can't play. But then it's like everybody wants him the whole season. You could trade him. You don't regret it. You never regret it. So the Pitts thing is like, I just think they could take Pitts. They would never regret it.

But the question for me is, if there's a premium on these last two quarterbacks and the spots are four, seven Detroit, eight Carolina, is Atlanta better moving back? Right. They could pick up a lot of draft capital, I think, at this spot. A future first, probably. I mean, when you're talking about this draft in particular,

it's almost like this is the first pick. You know, I know, I realize that three guys are off the board here, and so it dilutes what's left. But they can really, like, any team that wants, like, to come up for a quarterback here, I think it's open for business, and they could get a good haul. But I could also, again, like you just

said and laid out perfectly, they might just decide, you know, this is like the closest prospect to Julio Jones that we've seen, you know, in terms of, like, the level of prospect that he is, the type of field-tilting talent that he is, and then just stick there. They don't even have to trade up for it like they did for Julio.

Um, now I'm not saying he's Julio, but I do think he has the ability, the talent to be a matchup nightmare for them, especially in Arthur Smith's offense, which is, has been, um, you know, too tight on heavy. It's, it focuses on, uh, the tight end position, you know? And so I think he's a perfect fit for what they want to do there. And I think just it makes too much sense. So that's kind of like where I'm leaning,

but like barely. I think they could move back, certainly. You think about it. Let's say he's Kelsey. Let's say he's a bigger Kelsey. I think that's a safe bet if he doesn't get hurt. So right here, if you're drafting and you're like, I could basically have the last six years of Travis Kelsey's career with this pick,

that's going to be as valuable as anything other than a franchise QB based on the way the league plays football. The way we play football these days is that is almost more valuable than a receiver, I would say. There's definitely that argument. It's like it presents such a difficult conundrum for defenses because when you have a guy like Pitts, some teams are looking at this guy like he's basically a receiver.

You can go line him up at X on the outside in isolation looks, or you can bring him in and in line. He's still going to be able to run routes from inline spots. And Travis Kelsey runs some, some routes from the inline position. And then you get a matched up against the linebacker or a safety and it's just toast. And so,

I don't know. I think he, he definitely, I think you could make that argument that he's more valuable as a tight end because he has that mismatch ability to go and line up in multiple, multiple different spots on the field. He's not like worthless as a blocker. He can block. I don't think he's a good Gronk-style blocker, but he gives good effort.

He's got the size, he's got the wingspan, all that stuff. The more and more I think about it, he's going to be a guy that a lot of teams really, really want early in this draft. The tight end position and the history behind it, all kind of aside, he's the most talented guy at this spot, non-quarterback. It'd be funny if the Patriots traded up to four and then they took Pitts. And they were like, watch this. Three tight ends and a D-minus quarterback.

Let's roll. And they just gave like 60 million guaranteed or something to tight ends. I'd love that. I actually, that's my, the 49ers agent of chaos move would just be trading up and taking pits, not a quarterback. That would be the most crazy move there.

Tear him up with Kittle and just go, go ham on the league. I think that would be fun. Pits. Just, you can even see the Jersey leg to pits down the middle. Like you, it just feels like he's going to be good so

Atlanta's our first swing team everybody thinks first it was Cincinnati's going to take a tackle and now it seems like it's going to be the best receiver which people think is chase there's a little bit of an argument but I think chase is probably the safe consensus number one pick I like that pick

for the Bengals yeah I like it because I don't feel. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Because I don't feel like Sewell, who you have going seventh to Detroit, it's not like Sewell is a generational franchise tackle, right? He's the best tackle in this draft, but Chase has a chance to be a potentially generational receiver.

And if you put him with Burrow and you could figure out the offensive line later, the counter to that would be you had no offensive line last year and you got your quarterback basically killed. He's out for the year. Maybe you should have to tackle. I can honestly see both sides of this argument and I waffle on it because, you know, giving a guy like Burrow more time is only going to be good for their offense. However, I think Chase is on a tier of his own in terms of this receiver class. And there are several good offensive tackles, I think, that you could get

in the second round. And you know what I mean? And also, tackle slash guards, whether they decide to start him out at tackle or guard, whoever they take, I still think that they can improve their offensive line in the second round or the third round. This is a very deep offensive line class. And I don't know if, I mean, I think Sewell is definitely a very good prospect, but I don't know if he is, like you said, that generational type prospect where, you know, he's a surefire Hall of Fame type player. Not that I'm saying Chase is that, but Chase is definitely a game changer. And I think that, especially considering he'd be going back to his college quarterback

where they can just hit the ground running and they have immediately a really, really good receiving core there. And we've seen kind of like that difference that made with Stefan Diggs going to Buffalo. And Buffalo basically rebuilt their offensive line through free agency, at least a big part of it. And so maybe that's offensive line through free agency, at least

a big part of it. And so maybe that's like the route that they take. And with Chase Higgins and Tyler Boyd and Joe Mixon, that's a very, very good skill position group. And you can, I just can picture them doing a lot of really good things with that skill position group and getting Burrow back on track. I'm with you. I feel like you can address the line second, third round, but you're not going to have many chances to take a receiver like Chase. And then everybody has Miami taking a receiver at six. Are we positive? Are we positive?

I'm going to say it again. Are we positive that they're not going to take a QB at six? Are we positive? No. I don't know why they would have traded out of three if they had that in mind. But at the same time, I'm completely not eliminating them from the running for a quarterback, if that makes any sense. I think, and I think the general consensus is they traded back up to six. Because first they traded back to 12. And then they traded back up to six. Because first they trade it back to 12.

And then they trade it back up to six like in the same day. And I think what that told me initially is they want one of these top tier pass catchers, whether it be Pitts, Chase, Devontae Smith, or Jalen Waddle. Those are like the consensus four guys. And for whatever reason, I feel like there's a lot of buzz about Waddle over Devontae Smith. So this was one of my curveballs. The Dolphins taking Jalen Waddle here over Devontae

Smith, which I don't know if that's going to happen, but it feels like that's what the wins are pointing to. They're saying right now that for whatever reason, the Dolphins really like Waddle. And I think it would be because they see him and we just got done talking about Kelsey. I think a lot ofins really like Waddle. And I think it would be because they see him, and we just got done talking about Kelsey, I think a lot of teams might see Waddle as this Tyreek Hill-type player

where the speed is just impossible to match up with. And he's that type of speed. And it's also like if you look at kind of like what the Dolphins have on their offense right now, like Devontae Parker, Preston Williams, Mike Isiki. These guys are not speed demons, like field tilting type speed guys. And I think adding Waddle into that, you know, could be very exciting

for what they could do in that offense. Obviously, both Waddle and Devontae Smith have experience with Tua. So again, it's the same situation we were just talking about with Burrow. You have this built-in chemistry that can give these guys the ability to hit the ground running from day one. And so I think that's why I'm leaning there, but I'm with you. I don't think they're

absolutely for sure out of the quarterback running. The more I looked at the trade backup from 12 to six, the more confusing it is to me because you probably have five quarterbacks in the top 12. You have pits in the top 12 and you have the three receivers in the top 12, but not everybody needs a receiver and, or I guess everybody would need pits. But I think if you look at the top 12, it's really hard for me to believe that either Smith or Waddle wouldn't have been there at 12. So why did they trade back up? Did they trade up because they want pits? Or did they trade back up? What if they just loved the deal from San Francisco?

And they were like, look, they're overpaying for this three pick. This is great. We'll go to 12. Now we'll move back up to six. We feel like we're going to get a guy that we probably would have been happy with at three anyway. We just got all this extra assets. Maybe they like fields. Maybe they like the other quarterback. Maybe they love pits.

Maybe they wanted to take pits three. That's why I'm not convinced with anything I'm reading about. Oh no, they're taking a receiver. Like, how do we know? Why would the dolphins tell us? Is it in their interest

to tell us? It's not. I think this going, moving back up to six, I don't know if this is a reason enough for them to do this. So this is just speculation, but like being at six

gives them so many more options. Being at six gives them the option to trade back if they want again because they can hold that pick hostage again. We talked about this on the NFL show. They've done such a good job of leveraging their picks and turning

that into more picks. I mean, they turned Laramie Tunsell into like four first rounders or whatever it was. And so at six, you just have so much more flexibility to do what you want and um whether that be take a quarterback here hold that pick hostage maybe pits false this spot and that's ultimately their goal um but i think that to me would be like maybe reason enough for them to move back up there just because it gives them the ability to do so many different

things that puts them in the catbird seat if certain things fall like the way they think it's going to fall. I hate giving that egomaniac Kevin Clark any credit at all. But when we did the Ringer NFL show last week, he made that point about the Tunsil pick becoming this crazy... This happens in sports sometimes, right?

In the NBA, this agent named bill duffy forgot to mail in the contract in time for this random point card the heat had whose name was god i can't even remember his name was like anthony carter or something like that and the guy ended up becoming a free agent because they didn't mail the contract in in time which allowed the heat to sign lamar right they were able to sign Lamar Odom. Right? They were able to steal Lamar Odom for the Clippers with this extra cap space they magically got. And then a year later, they were able to trade for Shaq with Lamar Odom and Karan Butler.

And then this leads to all these sliding doors with the Shaq trade. They end up winning the title. They trade. Then Phoenix trades for Shaq. And there's like seven things that happen based on this one thing. Butterfly effect. And with Tunsil, yeah. And with Tunsil, as Clark pointed out, the weird gas mask tweet completely changes the course of NFL history. It leads to seven things.

So I thought that was a really good point. And I'm jealous of it. Because he was going to be, I'm just going off memory, but he was going to be like a much higher pick, like third or fourth. I can't even remember what it was. And then he fell to, I can't even remember off the top of my head, like 11 or 12 or something like that.

It was totally, yeah. It changed the whole complexion of the draft. Like that is just, yeah, that's crazy. So you're saying there's a chance the dolphins could do the double trade back.

Cause if the paths, if they want to move back up, actually, let's take a break and then we're going to talk about what the Pats can do here. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey.

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Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, coming back. We're talking about the Dolphins, the double trade back. So basically, if the Dolphins don't really have a plan, they just like the draft. They got overwhelmed by this offer from San Francisco. Cool. Move to 12. Then they were like, hey, if we move back up to six, we can still get the guy we liked at three. Let's go there. It's not going to cost us a lot. They go there. Now you have the Patriots at 15 who are terrified about people jumping in front of them at seven with Detroit or eight with the Panthers if they really like Justin Fields, which I think they do,

just for the record. But then it's a question of will we move up to eight with this Panthers pick which is now available because they had got Sam Darnold but then what happens if somebody trades ahead of you to the seven at Detroit

I don't know what Detroit's plan is like you think they're tanking they're doing this weird Jared Goff thing they're basically they've thrown away 2021 you might have to move up to six, but I would say the safe bet if you're the Patriots is to move up to seven with Detroit.

So you're moving up eight spots. I think it absolutely costs another first and maybe even a third. That would be, you had them moving up to eight with the Panthers. I think they have to move up to seven. Yeah. Yeah.

The more I think about it to move up to seven. Yeah. Yeah. The more I think about it, and I agree with you, I think that might be the ideal spot to move. Unless you think the Dolphins are going to trade back, but I don't see the Dolphins trading with the Patriots in this scenario. No way. So seven is definitely like the number to circle.

The reason I had Washington was, logically speaking, Scott Federer is the GM there. He spent, sorry, with Carolina, I should say, trading up with Washington. Washington traded up with Carolina. And the reason I say that is because Panther's GM, Scott Federer, he was with the Seahawks for many years, like the last couple decades, basically.

And the Seahawks' MO has always been to trade back. And John Schneider's MO is to accumulate as many picks, the last couple decades, basically. And the Seahawks' MO has always been to trade back. And John Schneider's MO is to accumulate as many picks, especially early on when they were trying to build their roster and basically rebuild that thing. They just look like a team that, to me, will be looking to trade back unless someone they absolutely love falls to that spot. So that was basically why I was thinking that.

But I also think that Detroit is another situation where they're probably they're in this like a multi-year rebuild. You know, they've got like six year deals in that front office, like they're not going to be rushing into anything. And they're another team that could probably get a pretty good haul based on like based on the fact that this year is sort of unique with the quarterback position. In years past, the number seven pick probably wouldn't have fetched quite as much as it will now because you're going to still have one of these top two quarterbacks there.

So yeah, I'm with you. Maybe they are looking if they can get an extra first here and move back with the Patriots or Washington or whoever. I think that could be a good move for them because they're still going to get a good player in the first round, but they'll pick up, you know, much needed ammo to rebuild that roster.

Yeah. So you have Denver picking nine who you think Trey Lance goes to them at number nine, which that's, that would be a miracle if they were able to get fields or Lance without trading up. Right. And they,

I couldn't totally understand. So Drew Locke was almost traded and then they backed out of the trade. Like, what was that story? Was he ever officially almost traded or was that all conjecture? I really don't know. I'm not sure.

I think it was one of those situations. Maybe they're open to it. I don't think, like bottom line is, I don't think that they're satisfied at the quarterback position. Why would they be? Yeah, I mean, they shouldn't be, really. They're a team that is they have a very strong roster,

I think, and getting a good quarterback in there, you know, to pair him with that really, like, one of the better developing skill position groups in the NFL. You got Cortland Sutton, Jerry Judy, Noah Fant, you know, even their backup, Albert O,

he was really promising what he showed in his rookie season. So they've got a lot of really interesting weapons. KJ Hamler. So I think, you know, their team with that defense, with that, you know, the coaching staff very clearly intent on turning that defense into a top-tier defense. They are like a quarterback away. And whether it's Trey Lance or Justin Fields, to me, they're one of the teams I think that

benefits really from the flurry of moves over the last few weeks because they're potentially going to have, you know, unless you see massive trade-ups, they're potentially going to have their choice between Lance and Fields if things fall right for them, which is just crazy to think about. So I think Denver's in a really good position, but they're going to have to be careful because I do think someone's going to try and trade up either seven or eight at this point. Well, the move for them, it's so obvious.

They should just flip picks with Detroit and give them a second round or something like that, and then they guarantee themselves the two quarterbacks. What they don't want to happen is cool. We're at nine. We're going to get one of these dudes and then seven and eight. They're two people. Yeah.

And then two guys go off or Miami goes rogue and takes a quarterback. You know, I don't feel like they can stand Pat. So I was thinking actually your scenario of you have Washington go to the Panther spot, but that could also be where the Pats go. But if Denver wants Lance, you just flip picks with the trade. You know the Panthers are probably trading their pick.

You know, the Panthers love the narrative of we got Sam Darnold. We gave up a second and a fourth basically for him. But then we traded backwards and we picked up a first. And if you look at the totality of it, we got two firsts and Sam Darnold for this, this, and this. You can just see where that's heading. And then if you're Detroit, you move back to nine.

And if you're going to take that tackle, you get them anyway. And there you go. Yeah. I mean, that is exactly like the scenario i'm kind of picturing what that's happening because you if sewell if you get sewell at nine after doing all that that's like a coup right there you've really worked it well um so you know and there's there's a lot of other really like high-end players still going to be hitting at 9 10 11 12 um you know on this mock i've got patrick sertain who is one of the top corners in this class, or Sean Slater, who I think a lot of people have him rated above Sewell. I've got him just below Sewell, but he's a very, very good prospect. And then Devontae Smith going to the Eagles at 12, who I don't know if Detroit's in the market for a receiver right now.

I don't know if that puts them over the top, but there's some still blue chip players in that area. It seems like 12 is the drop off. Yeah. I mean, like a slight drop off, then it becomes, there's more arguments about who comes after 12. Yeah, I would say so. So the paths, they need to navigate four things here.

What does Atlanta do at four? Are the, my, is Miami going to go rogue or they're going to take a receiver? four things here. What does Atlanta do at four? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Are the, is Miami going to go rogue or are they going to take a receiver? Because you're hoping they take a receiver, but deep down, you're a little worried

that they're going to do something weird. The Lions, it would be stupid for them to say at seven. Ideally, they just swap spots with Denver,

pick up something. Yeah. And then who gets that Panthers pick, which we both think is for sale now because of this Darnold trade. Yeah.

So what does it take to move to eight then? So what would it take to move to eight? 15, another first, and like a third? So I think it's going to take, well, again, like I said before, it's a unique situation because you can't really rely on history.

So just one example, the Cardinals move up from 15 to 12 in 2018 for Josh Rosen. Josh Rosen was on a different level in terms of like the hype and everything. Um, but they only had to give up third and fifth. And that at the time was incredibly cheap to move up five spots. Um, the bills move from 12 to seven to get Josh Allen.

They gave up two seconds. The Chiefs, this one's a bigger jump. These are just some previous quarterback trades. The Chiefs moved from 27 to 10 in 2017, and they gave up a third plus a future first. So I think it's somewhere in that range. I'm guessing this year it would probably be something like, you know, either two seconds or a second and a first, like a future first, something in that range. Because the teams that are trading out of there, either the Detroit Lions or Carolina, they're going to know that, you know, they've got a very, this is a valuable pick. And we're not

necessarily going to go straight off of the Jimmy Johnson trade chart in this scenario. I think it's going to be a little bit, you're going to have to pay a premium to make that move. The Pats getting fields. I would give up a first for that. Oh, well, first of all, people really like fields. And part of the thing I've already seen from Patriot haters of my life, like Mina Kams, for just not to name just anybody, but just for an example, people would be really upset if the Pats got Fields because I think everybody's rooting for him. There's this chip on the shoulder potential with him, like being basically the fourth

or fifth QB. What's wrong with this guy? I'm a believer. And then him going to Belichick and then just us getting 20 years of fields after 20 years of Brady, I think would drive people crazy. I would love it. Injected in my veins. You're going to fucking force people to be fans of the Patriots.

This is absurd. And I'm going to be one of them. And I know Mina's probably in the same boat. Like, it is one of those situations where I think everyone's like, some of these narratives, the fact he's falling, like, it's all BS. Now he's going to have this big chip on his shoulder. Justin Fields is. And we're all going to be rooting for him to do really well.

You know, we all watched him in that Clemson game, like how tough he is, the way he plays. I don't know. Yeah, this is setting up to be a disaster for me personally. He's a more athletic Roethlisberger. Like, he's so big. And he's going to be,

wait, what, five years from now, he'll be 20 pounds heavier? So he'll be playing at like 270? Yeah, like as he matures. He's going to be like Cam. He's going to be like Cam, honestly, in his prime,

with more accuracy and like a more accurate arm or more powerful arm and a little faster too right yeah he ran like a 4-4 i mean i guess if he gains 20 pounds probably lose a little bit of that but you know he's not in the same category i would say as someone like he's not like a lamar jackson style guy where he's gonna juke people you know out of their socks or whatever. But he is. He reminded me of Cam watching the way people just slip off of him in the pocket or Ben. I think Ben is a great example to work. He just stands in the pocket and guys try to try to sack him.

And he just like shrugs it off. He's so strong and so powerful. But then he also has that four four speed for five speed. Probably his waist down body is like borderline freakish. Like he's got this huge butt. these big legs and these dudes are like, they're just bouncing off him. Like he's a wall. What's that going to look like when he's 27?

Yeah. It's just made of granite. It, he is one of those guys. He's just, I think he's a special athlete. Um, and honestly,

I think he has very special accuracy too, which is something that you always look for as a quarterback position. So this is why I'm so excited about it. And this is why I've always been adamant that he's my number two guy in this class, just behind Lawrence. It's been a bit strange because watching kind of like the narratives change

or the narratives not change necessarily, but like shift as he sort of falls out of favor, according to, I guess, like the draft consensus. And now he's like third or fourth behind even Lance. I remember this time last year, we were talking about whether he's better than Lawrence. And so, yeah, it's going to be very, very fascinating. And I do think there's now a solid chance

that the Patriots get him. I think they're going to have to deal with like Washington potentially trading up. I think they're, you know, Washington makes sense to me. The reason I put Washington here is number one not to completely just cater to your fantasy that you're going to get Justin Fields but I think Washington makes a lot of sense number one like we just talked about Cam like Ron Rivera experience like they went 15 and one he turned him into an MVP obviously open to having a quarterback that can be part of the run game all

that stuff they're another team that their franchise, like their roster, I should say, is relatively stacked and defensively, it's a very good defense. Like now they have good weapons on offense, drop a good quarterback in there and they could be very dangerous. So I think, you know, they're another team to me that that is a threat to move up here and throw in maybe the Steelers. I mean, I don't know, are the Saints sort of like a big wild card here? Because they seem to always get involved in things like this.

But yeah, I think there's a few teams. Bears, maybe? The Bears are another team, just kind of a wild card. You don't really know what they're doing. If you get desperate. Don't do that to the Bears fans. Come on. Don't do that to the Bears fans.

The Bears fans have suffered enough. They don't want to think they have a shot at fields. It would be hilarious if the Falcons just took them at four because, by the way, that's what they should do. They should take fields at four. They're in cap hell this year anyway. I think they could definitely overachieve maybe 10 and 6, 11 and 5,

but with some of the cap things they have going on, because I was looking at them for their Super Bowl odds, which are like 65 to 1. But it does seem like this is a tough cap year for them to pull off basically the depth you would need to complete for a Super Bowl. So maybe the move is you draft Fields, you have Ryan for another year,

and if Fields is amazing, you're in an Alex Smith-Mahomes situation. Yeah. I think the one thing that like hangs me up on the, on the Falcons is, you know, they would have to eat a massive cap hit in 2022, not just this year, but in 2022 also to move on from Matt Ryan.

So, I mean, it's not like impossible. We've seen teams, teams do it. Like we've seen teams move on from quarterbacks that weren't the answer. But the idea, like in theory that they would wait two years. that weren't the answer um but the idea like in

theory that they would wait two years so like let the quarterback play in his third year and this is a new coaching staff and a new gm do you think they want to make their first pick this highly valuable pick wait for two like see what happens in 2023 i don't know that to me just like for me personally that just seems weird like i would not do that if I was in that position you don't know if you're going to be here in 2023 well plus Arthur Smith's watching those pits game tapes like oh oh my god things I could do yeah

and imagine him next to Julio and Calvin Ridley and like I don't know I think they could really build something like a really good offense that way so well look the field, the field thing is stupid because the criticism is basically, oh, I don't really like how he progresses off his first read.

So now he's the fifth best quarterback in this draft. It's like, all right, well, he was in college. Maybe that's something he could get better at. Right. You know,

it's not going to change is the fact that he's got Ben Roethlisberger's body and Cam Newton speed. Like that's going to be a the fact that he's got Ben Roethlisberger's body and Cam Newton speed. Like that's going to be a thing at the next level. I'm okay with maybe teaching him how to advance past the first read. I don't get the draft sometimes. The overthinking is just crazy. Like we saw with Lamar a couple of years ago where Lamar almost falls out of the first round because it's like, Oh, you know, and they start nitpicking and it's just like, all right, does this guy have an amazing blue chip talent? Because ultimately that's why these quarterbacks succeed or fail, right? Why did Josh Rosen not make it? He didn't make it because he didn't

have an elite talent. Yeah. He just wasn't great at something. Why did Josh Allen make it? Well, he's a fucking unbelievable athlete. And ultimately it was like, can he be accurate enough? Well, he learned how to be accurate enough, but the athleticism was there the whole time. And with fields, it's just like, that dude's a fucking unbelievable athlete. I don't understand how you could talk yourself out of him as a top five pick. So anyway, I hope the Patriots get him. And I'm afraid that's what's going to happen now. I'm going to tell you this. I'm going to be completely insufferable to everyone in my life about this Fields thing.

I will buy the jersey. I'm going to change my background to a picture of him. I'm just going to lose my mind. Last thing before we go, let's make this quick. It seems like the Niners have just basically decided on Mac Jones. There's a lot of Shanahan DNA here. They like certain types of quarterbacks.

I get it. I get the argument. But could this be like a legendarily weird move down the road? I think it could end up being one of those situations where you ask, what if? I do still have confidence that if the 49ers pick Mac Jones and everything is looking like Adam Schefter said today, that he would be shocked

if it wasn't Mac Jones. And like, you know, when Schefter says that, you got to listen. So I think when I look at this, I think that Mac Jones is going to be a good quarterback in the NFL

because he's going to get into a good system with a good coach and good support system around him, good offensive line. All the things line up. But I think what I'll be asking probably in a few years is what could it look like with Justin Fields or Trey Lance instead.

So I don't know if it's going to be legendarily bad, but it's going to be one of those scenarios where you ask, what if forever? Wow. What a draft. I think this is the most fun NFL draft. We've had some good ones, right? We had the one with the Rosen draft. It was really fun. It's not like every year there's some sort of angle, but this one where you have, I'm just thinking like the football cards angle, because my son likes to buy the football cards, open the Panini Prisms. There are so many potential incredible cards in this draft. We have the five QBs, the three receivers, and then Pitts, who might go down

as one of the five best offensive tight ends we've ever had. And you're just like, wow, just from that standpoint alone, I can't wait for this draft. Great storylines, all kinds of stuff. When's your next mock draft coming? We're still deciding that. I think it's either going to be... It's probably going to be next week.

Okay. All right. Danny Kelly, you can hear him on the Ringer NFL show. He's breaking all this stuff down. Read him on theringer.com. And if you want to torture him on Twitter, just send fake Russell Wilson trades at him. It sets him off. He loses his mind. Good to see you. You too.

All right. My good buddy Joe House is here you can hear him on the Fairway Rowland podcast and we have known each other since 1988 this is the longest stretch we have never seen each other in person since 1988 but there's light at the end of the tunnel

we will be hanging out together at some point for now we can hang out on the zoom and talk about the masters you talked on Fairway Row and you did a big preview pod that is going up. It'll be up by the time people listen to this. I wanted to grab you on to talk about some bets. We should mention, this is a house-like intro. This is like a three-minute intro for me. We should mention the Fairway Roll and Doe contest on FanDuel.

You can sign, join up. You can compete against me and House and Nathan and Kevin Clark, all these people. If you just want to put in six golfers, your best possible lineup, I did mine, you did yours. All right, here we go, House. Give me your best bet to win the 2021 Masters, even though we just had the Masters like six, seven months ago and the masters is back, but we love it. Give me your best bet right now. Yeah, we, the, the last masters was four and a half months ago.

It was November, but because of, of the weird time space continuum that we are in, it felt like it was eight months ago. I love that you want me to start right off the top. Like this is, this very much fits how long it's been since we've seen each other. Like it's, it's going since we've seen each other like it's it's going to be a very like we're going to hug and it'll be over you know what i mean it'll be like when we were 14 years old again um you want the very best pick right off the top we're going to hug and then you're going to be like let's go let's get something to eat

yeah you're right about that yeah yeah give me your your best pick, though. Well, I love Justin Thomas. I have, you know, one and one A, and I hate going chalk. Right now, I'm looking at FanDuel. The odds are bulky Bryson, beefy Bryson at plus 950, DJ at plus 950, and then Justin Thomas at plus 1100 along with Jordan Spieth. So it's a chalky pick. But Justin Thomas has been incandescent at the Masters the last handful of years. Every year that he's competed in the Masters, he's made the cut.

And he's finished better each year. He's improved his place. So last November, he finished fourth. He just won the players, but more importantly for Justin Thomas is his second shot shot making he's outstanding, uh, from approach. He is first against all competitors in the masters over the past three years in strokes, gained approach over the last three years. He's first in greens and regulation over the last three years.

And he's also an outstanding putter at the moment. First in putts per greens and regulation and first in putting birdies or better. And look at this. You're like Kurt Goldsberry. It's stats. I mean, This is unbelievable. The description of Augusta for this April moment is very different from the description of the conditions back in November. Because, you know, different season altogether. We're back in the traditional moment for this. And the reports from the grounds are that the course is playing as firm and as fast as it ever has.

It's also true that the Green Jacket homies do not want a repeat of 20 under. I mean, it's not that anybody's embarrassed by Dustin Johnson going out and shooting 20 under, but they want this thing to be tight. They like it between nine under and 11 under. So the greens are going to be crazy firm. And so you need the guy that's going to hit the ball into the green, into the right spot, and then be able to roll the rock. That's JT for me this week. Now, I also love

Jon Rahm. And you and I have had a lot of time together with Jon Rahm. Jon Rahm and I have been on a lot of dates on FanDuel. Yes. I bought him dinner. I bought him drinks. I've tried to bring him home. And he just won't come home with me.

Tommy Fleetwood spent so much time on those two guys. Really, really courting them. Just trying to get them to come through for me. And it's never happened. John Rahm is my pick. Okay. Let's hear it. Yeah.

I think he's due. I think it would make sense for him at some point over the next three years to win this tournament specifically because I think he has a chance to be one of the best golfers of his generation. So you need one of these to push it over the top. I love that he had the kid last week. I love the storyline of this.

And I just pictured Nance with a smoking jacket on, covered in body oil on Sunday as ROM's up by two strokes doing, uh, you know, ROM knocks in the winning putt and he does the daddy's home or whatever, whatever Courtney Nance, one for the father. I just, I, I just feeling John ROM. I think the Thomas thing, once you and Harry picked him, I was out. Harry's from Against All Odds. The fact that both of you like him, I'm out. That's the kiss of death.

I totally understand that. And Rahm has all kinds of great metrics that reflect him as capable of winning this golf tournament. The challenge is, you know, it could go one of two ways, right? He's coming in on, on, on a Wednesday, as opposed to the more traditional arrive Monday and, and, and play it on out because his little baby boy was just born over the weekend. And so, you know, coming in with whatever's in, in his, his, uh, mind and in his emotional spirit, will he arrive drained or will he arrive buoyed? I don't know the answer to that. He's not from here. He's from a different culture. Okay. All right. He's like, now he's going to go do his thing and then come back and be a dad

after that. Okay. In America, which what's happened in this country, you'd have a lot more pressure to do the right thing, handle the first couple of days. He's fine. Don't worry about it. Well, he's a stud. Seven top tens in his last nine starts. In his last three appearances at Augusta, he's finished inside the top 10. So, I mean, he's a stud horse.

And if you want to jump on that stud horse's back, if you really think that he's going to come inside with you tonight, then, then by all means, go, go ride John Rom. I lit all the candles in the room. I'm ready for you, John Rom. It's time for us to make some FanDuel love. Spanish, the Spanish stallion.

I got a bottle of Rioja. I'm going to do process by elimination on the top picks on FanDuel. Bryson, beefy Bryson, plus nine 50. You just said it. They're going to make the course harder. The minus 20 was embarrassing. It was humiliating. That's not the masters in Augusta that we know and love. They're going to add some wrinkles to make it harder. That's bad

for beefy Bryson. He's out. He can't putt. He also, he's terrible putting at Augusta. DJ won. I thought it was six months ago. You claim it was four and a half months ago. It could have been 15 months ago. I don't remember. I've lost track of time. DJ winning two Masters in six months seems impossible to me. The back-to-back thing. I'm crossing him off.

Jordan Spieth won last weekend. And also, deep down, we know he's going to choke on Sunday. He's out. Wow. Justin Thomas. That's Lander. Justin Thomas is too, is too cheeky of a pick. Cross him off.

Rory, no way. And then now we go into, and Brooks, I don't think Brooks's body can hold up for 72 holes. I know he's going to play. I know I have a moment. I know he's going to suck me in. I know I'm going to be sending you Brooks triple exclamation points. We'll live bet him. We can definitely live bet him. Cantlay at 22-1

and Xander Shoffley at 25-1, I think have to be mentioned. I used them in our fairway roll and dough. Those are two of my picks. They weren't two of the highest salary guys. They're kind of in the next tier. Those are guys I never pick for Fando. I always lean toward Jon Rahm, Fleetwood, Brooks, all my guys. I decided to go the other way this year because these guys are always in the hunt and I

never have them. And Xander specifically, I could see him winning. And I think the 25 to one, just because he's always around, you know, he's always hanging around and people never take him seriously. You take him seriously. You're a huge fan. Well, you have to take him seriously when it comes to the Masters. He has an in the majors. He has an incredible record across all four majors in this in the Masters in particular. He tied for second the last time the Masters was played in April.

So that was April of 2019. Tied for second the last time the Masters was played in April. So that was April of 2019, tied for second. He tied for 17th when they just played it in November. He's playing. He's in decent form. He's not in incredible form, but he just finished inside the top 20 at the match play event in Austin, Texas. Cantlay also checks a ton of boxes. The guy has four starts at Augusta.

He has a tie for ninth, a tie for 17th, and across his season so far, eight top 20s. He has a win this season, a second place, and a third place. So nothing wrong with either one of those guys. They both fit. You know, the thing about the Masters is because it's played at the exact same venue every year, you can come up with certain attributes of the winners and identify some trends. So over the last 10 years, you've got to be aged under 40, typically.

You've got to be ranked in the top 30 of the world. You have to have a top 25 under your belt at Augusta. Both those guys have it. You have to have made the cut at Augusta. Both those guys have it. You have to have made the cut the previous year, though. Both those guys have it. You have to have at least one top five this season. I know that Cantley's got it and Xander's got to be right on the edge. And you have to 10 out of 10 finish in the top 30 of one of the last two events entering this. And I think both guys

fit that as well. So all kinds of metrics and attributes that both those guys satisfy. And Cantlay is one of those guys. He's been in the mix for a while. But if you ask the casual golf fan, give me your two favorite Cantlay moments, I don't know if they'd be able to come up with them. The very best moment was him in Hawaii talking about ordering my ties from the tee box

a year and a half ago. By the way, it's the three year anniversary of when we were at the Masters with my dad and nephew Kyle, which was one of the great three day trips. Amazing.

I loved it. It was so capped off by who had the tiger, the coming two feet from the, what was that? 16 when we were sitting on 16? We were sitting on 16, yeah. Tiger stuck it. He stuck it right next to the pin for us. Right. He did stick it.

The highlight of that trip really was the rental car. I know we're not, we're still not allowed to tell that story because Kyle's still with his girlfriend. Well, that story, it didn't, we, all we did was hear a little bit of a text message. That's all. That's the whole story. That's it. Nothing more to say. At some point, we're telling the story. It won't be today. My dad, it's the greatest moment of his life, basically. Plus, I think we both gained five pounds. All the sandwiches were spectacular.

I bought a bunch of your Breckman stuff, half of which I've lost, including the hat. What? You lost your Breckman? The hat you got at Breckman's? You know who lost my hat? Guess who lost my hat? Like it was was me Like I was going to lose the hat The fuckface, I know who lost it No, no, it wasn't my fuckface son either

It was my wife I think my wife played tennis in it And then it mysteriously disappeared I can't believe, I would never call your wife An FF by the way No, but please call my son that He really is a little fuckface Alright, so Long shots FF, by the way. Just Ben. Please call my son that. Just your son. He really is a little fuckface. Yes.

All right. So, long shots. Fleetwood's 41 to 1. You know what? You know what, Tommy? Tommy, look away. You don't get to sit next to me

at the FanDuel bar. I'm not buying you a drink this time, Tommy. Don't bat your eyelashes at me. How about, can I give you Cam Smith at 37 to one or Masayama at 46 to one? You like either of those? I don't like Hideki. I really, really, really like Cam Smith.

Cam Smith just tied for second at this event in November. And since then has been on a bit of a heater. He was in the lead through two rounds down at the WGC event in Florida at a golf course called the concession. And he, he has a bunch of top five finishes. If he had, he ended up tied for 51st at that event, which would have been a real feather in his cap. If he'd finished another, you know, the top 10 of that also, he rolls the rock beautifully. His short game is spectacular. That's a definitely a guy. If you can,

if you need to build a DFS lineup, if you can afford to get him in, he's definitely worth the investment. Hideki has just been too inconsistent and I just can't have a guy who can't putt on greens that, you know, are, are allegedly the fastest greens.

These guys will play on tour all season long. Fair. I'm going to give you a miss the cut bet. Great. Jordan Spieth plus 480. No chance. That's slander. It's defamation.

I won't stand for it. I am here. What I'm rooting for, what I really want to see, is Jordan Spieth and Justin Thomas, the old pals and the rivalry rekindled Sunday afternoon, three o'clock tea time. They're the last two to go off. That's what I want to see. Spieth and JT battling mano y mano coming down the stretch. How about Beefy Bryson at plus 460?

Now you've got my attention. See, because he had such a weird experience the last time that he played at Augusta and he talked about having some kind of physical reaction, physical ailment where he alleged that it had to do with gut bacteria or something that he'd eaten. There's some kind of blockage, all kinds of nonsense. I think it was mental. He came off of winning that US Open at Wingfoot. He had all of this research

gone into whether or not he was going to play a longer driver. At the very last minute, he decided not to play the longer driver. I think he psyched himself out. And I don't know, once you sort of get into weird headspace with Augusta, it's not easy to get yourself out. Ask Rory McIlroy about that.

Especially if they made the course harder. I think that's the best point you made this whole pod. And it's a really important point for the audience. They made the, they, I know they're going to make the course harder and they're going to make it finite. And you're just not going to be able to fuck up this weekend.

You're just not, especially Saturday, Sunday, they're not going to allow it. fuck up this weekend. You're just not, especially Saturday, Sunday. They're not going to allow it. They might allow you to get a little momentum Thursday, Friday, but Saturday, Sunday, they're going to mess with us. And the beefy Bryson knocking the eight iron second shot off the green, rolling off, I just feel like that's plus 460, I thought. That's a little juicy.

If you do that, I'll join you on that. The sad thing is we can't parlay, or maybe we can find a place to parlay to make the cut with a couple of them. We'll do a couple. You can always combo make the cut and miss the cut. If you know the odds, and we have the odds all here on FanDuel,

we'll have to come up with a little parlay on that. Here's my favorite bet on FanDuel. We'll have to come up with a little parlay on that. Here's my favorite bet on FanDuel. All right. Top former winner. Okay. Top score for the former winners. Here are the odds. Yeah.

DJ is plus 175. Spieth plus 250. I'm not betting him. Reed plus 550. Yep. Then we go into this Garcia 9-1, Scott 10-1, Bubba 12-1, Mickelson 22-1, Danny Willett, remember him, 29-1. I do.

Zach Johnson 29-1. It just kind of keeps going. Gets more and more unrealistic until we get to Vijay Singh at 101. DJ at plus 175 to be the best former winner golfer seems like a really smart way to bet on DJ if you just think he's going to have a really good tournament. Because basically he just has to beat Spieth and Reed and Scott. And on the flip side, Reed, if you like Reed at plus 550, just in general, if you like Reed, if you think he's going to be top five finish or whatever, that seems like a nice way to play Reed and just be like, all right, he just basically needs to beat Speed, Scott, and DJ. I'm not

throwing in Sergio because I'm not a Sergio guy. What do you think of that though? It's interesting. I don't know if there's a ton of value. The one thing about Reed at plus 550 that's interesting to me is he owns Jordan Spieth. So if they end up in a twosome together, Patrick Reed, when they played head-to-head like the last six times, has beaten him all five or six times. The concern would be Reed over DJ. But what you're sort of betting on there is that DJ, for whatever reason, is scuffling a little bit. DJ's had trouble,

and let's be clear about this, it's not outsized trouble. He's been missing fairways. It started down in your backyard at Riviera, and he's been tinkering a little bit. The tee ball is not as crucially important in terms of accuracy at Augusta. But if you thought that DJ was going to find himself in trouble and not able to land the ball in the three square feet where you're allowed to land the ball on these greens,

then Reed would be the bet at plus 550. And then, you know, because you're already saying, well, I like Reed over Spieth, so Reed over DJ. That's the kind of story you have to tell yourself to make that worthwhile. Reed top five is plus 600. So in a weird way, it's better odds to just bet on him to beat those three guys than it is to bet on him to actually finish in the top five.

I think so. Plus 550 plus 600. I think so. Plus 550 plus 600. I think so. Cam Smith is plus 700 to make the top five, which I thought was a little tasty. I also like that. I mean, we're wondering about muscle memory since it was not that long ago that he just had a great performance there and he really putted so beautifully in November. Zander is plus 450.

Cantlay is plus 410. One thing you could do here, basically, I think we all go into the Masters and there's four to six guys that we like, right? You just bet the four guys you like to finish in the top five try to hit two.

I mean, hitting two is as hard as a mother effort, though. But if you hit one, you make your money back, right? If you hit one, you've paid for all the other bets that didn't make it. If you hit two of five, now you're making some real money. You could also do it with the top 10, by the way. Yeah, that's right. For some reason, the top 10 leaves me a little flaccid. Well, here's one other sort of thing to keep in mind.

Eight of the last 10 times, the winner of the Masters has been somebody that opened the week at 16 to 1 or higher. So Chalk, for whatever reason, doesn't tend to win at the Masters. Now, DJ was number one in the world and had the best odds, among the best odds, coming into this in November. And then Tiger was also right around 14 or 15 to 1. So those are the two aberrations out of this. But if you're looking for some names kind of further down the card, like a Zander, like a Cantlay, you can play a smaller amount on them to win

so you get the real return. And to go along with that, play the top five and you've covered in case they finish fourth or something like that. I have an announcement. Go ahead. We're going next year. Oh,

all right. 2022. We're going for the whole time too. I want to be there on Sunday. We're fucking going the whole time. Yeah. I will say I've, I've never been for a Sunday.

I've been to a number of masters. I've been lucky. Um, not quite double digits, but a bunch. Uh, but I've never stayed all the way to Sunday. You know who's going to come with us?

You got to bring Nate, right? Nephew Kyle wants to be invited. He's texting us. Well, he deserves to come. I think we have to negotiate. I think he has to let us tell the master story to officially be invited. He might have to be engaged for that though.

Is that worth it? Well, Kyle says done. Wow. That didn't take any time. All right. So next time you're on the pod, we'll do it where it's the last section of the podcast. We'll tell the story. Kyle says it's worth it.

Your dad needs to be on then. I think my dad needs to be on. We really need to do it. We need to tell the whole story. It's a great one. I was thinking about the food too. Yeah. With the sandwiches and stuff.

And I have some regrets. Honestly, I think I acted like a wuss because I wasn't like eating a lot of bread at that time. And I want to come back next April april good and i want to eat the sandwiches correctly yeah i agree you were a puss that's right i was you are and you know the thing that we experimented with and we did even did a podcast uh about it we had the former editor chief of bon appetit magazine my pal adam rapaport on we were talking about different sandwich hacks right so like we were taking pimento cheese and putting it with the chicken because

then it gave you a cheesy chicken sandwich, or you could do the egg salad. And maybe you want to put that, uh, you know, a little egg layer with, uh, I don't,

I don't know, but you could do that with the chicken also. And then they, there, there's some other, the turkey, you can gussy up with the cheese. Like there's a bunch of stuff that can happen.

I have another announcement. FanDuel is paying for all of this. I haven't told them yet. I'm going to talk them into it. We've been incredible partners for them. But yeah, they're going to go all out. We're going to have a FanDuel house. We're going to have a FanDuel party.

2022. Tiger's going to be back. It's going to be amazing. He's going to be walking again. He's going to be doing his thing. It's going to be the greatest ever. There's no reason not to have big dreams. I love it. It's important at our stage of life. We'll spread my dad's ashes on one of the holes, even though he'll still be alive

at that point. We'll spread the ashes of his mustache. I can't wait. So, you know, by the way, House, you know, WrestleMania and the Masters are going head to head on Sunday. I saw WrestleMania, but doesn't that come on late enough so that we get a winner in the green jacket and then you can go right over to WrestleMania? You are correct, sir. Oh, what an amazing Sunday.

It's exactly how it's going to play out. Yeah. So I feel like something I feel like it's a special, special day. I'm excited. I'm excited for you. What's your podcast schedule? You're doing one after round one. We're no, so we're just doing the recap Sunday night. As soon as the green jacket is on somebody's shoulders, we have a show that goes up Wednesday, our preview show with the picks, the deep dives into trying to generate a little return on investment. And then Nate and I were flirting with maybe, so I'm going to be in Mexico. You know, I'm going down to Mexico at the end of this week.

I'm going to be in Mexico. So, but we might do like a Twitter space or something on Saturday. We could promote it properly if we decide to do it, but we're definitely going to do a podcast Sunday evening. As soon as the green jacket is on somebody's shoulders, we're jumping on. Great. And then, and then all of us are going to hear from now courtesy of FanDuel. I can't wait to tell them. Thank you, FanDuel.

Thanks, FanDuel. Thank you for this. FanDuel 2022, the FanDuel house, the party's going to be great. I can't wait. Last time we went, remember we met Josh Allen at the CAA party. That was amazing. And it was a great interaction. And I was all in for Josh Allen at the CAA party. That was amazing. And it was a great interaction. And I was all in for Josh Allen after that. And I was like, this guy has it. I really like my interaction with him. He seems like a quarterback I would want to play football for. That was great information and intelligence.

If we'd only used it three years later, you know, when Buffalo went on that little run. Although I didn't, I think I bet on, oh, I bet against Buffalo. No, we rode them enough times. You did. I picked the stupid ass Ravens. Why did I do that? I still have my regrets. Well, you'll be able to bet on Justin Fields

on the Patriots next year. So that'll be exciting too. It'll be great. With the Masters, Justin Fields, I'll have my Justin Fields jersey on. It'll be incredible. It's going to be hilarious.

I can't wait. House, enjoy the Masters. You as well. Check out Fairway Rowan. And I'll talk to you going to be hilarious. I can't wait. House. Um, enjoy the masters. You as well. Rolling. And, uh, and I'll talk to you soon.

All right. Thank you, buddy. All right. David Allen Greer is here. I can't remember if this is the first time we've done a podcast. I know, I know we've had many conversations,

but on ESPN, we might've done one. And it's definitely the first one for the ringer. You know, I just feel so disrespected. Can I call you William? Here's what would happen. I would see you at Kimmel's Super Bowl Sunday, and it would go,

why haven't you been on my show? Oh, you should do my show. Let's do a show. Here's my number. Here's my number. Here's my number. Silence. You know what happened? Carolla got super territorial, but now I feel like you're

a free agent on the podcast market. I'm single, baby. I'm out there. I'm single. Podcast mingling. Let's talk sports first, and then we got to talk. We have a whole bunch of stuff to talk about, but there's a whole bunch of sports stuff going on, including Gonzaga last night. Their undefeated season went up in smoke because Baylor was way more athletic, way faster and completely destroyed them. I felt like I swung the game when I bet on Gonzaga before the game on

the money line. I didn't read that in the postgame reports, but this game felt like it was over in three minutes. It really was. They looked confused. That dude, the white dude with the handlebar mustache, you know, the Wild West, all of a sudden he was like your older brother's goofy friend. It was like, dude, what happened, man? It looked like aunts versus nephews.

That's what I tweeted. It was just, dude, what happened, man? It looked like aunts versus nephews. That's what I tweeted. It was just, oh, my God. They looked bigger. They looked older. They looked like they recruited them from like grown man league in a parking lot and said, we'll pay you $50 apiece to whoop ass. They just, faster, stronger, more aggressive. Gonzaga looked befuddled the whole game. And I switched off midway through the fourth quarter and started watching the Hemingway, Ken Burns documentary. You know. I heard that was lit. It was and was. Here's what's soothing.

As a Black man watching any Ken Burns documentary, whenever they touch on race, because you know you can hear the following. Well, he was a man of his time. I mean, we couldn't really expect, his generation you know of course everybody knows hemingway is problematic but i didn't uh it was still amazing and interesting uh and and also how influential he was and still is as a writer you know i've you know i i was going to talk about this later but let's talk about it now because you're talking about influence. You know, it's been the 30 plus years since In Living Color, the heyday of Eddie Murphy, which kind of came back when they did Coming to America 2. There was a little recycle in that.

You had Arsenio's show on Fox. You had Spike. He's starting to take off. You have John Singleton, Boys in the Hood, which was 30 years ago. This year, you have this kind of, I don't even want to call it a renaissance. It was a naissance. Yeah.

And now we've seen it basically happening again the last four or five years for different reasons and all these Hollywood things. As you're watching from afar, how do you feel about your era where this was happening, where all this influential stuff and TV, movies, music, all that stuff's happening versus the last couple of years here? I feel like any old guy. Our music was better.

Our fashion was better. We were braver. We were taller. We were stronger. We were smarter than kids today. I feel all that. But also in temperament and emotion, I'm more like, I liken it to jazz players. You know, like when Dixieland came, it went, big band came, it went and bebop from swing. There are a lot of dudes who never cross-pollinated they just were like that's

chinese music uh we're not playing that okay then there were really cool dudes i think it was benny carter so he may be one of the guys a tenor player who actually was really cool with the younger musicians his ears were more opened and that's kind of like where I'm at. I mean, they're young, you know, this music and this culture is for 15 to 25. I'm 64. It's not supposed to be for me. Right. You know what I mean? It's not supposed to be for me. And also, I think the maturation of a generation, as soon as it got to about 20 years, that's when nostalgia kicks in. Because there's a whole new generation that finds your old clothes, your old records, just like we did in the 70s. Everybody was wearing 40s stuff. I used to love to go to

vintage stores, get vintage shirts. Now I'm like, someone else wore this? No, I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll wait till it's restocked. You know, that kind of stuff. So that's what we're doing. My daughter's 13. She's, everything about me is vintage.

Have you let your daughter watch Boomerang yet? I haven't let her. You know, one of the great things about kids is, especially when they're turning teenagers, you're of no interest to them. They cannot imagine anyone,ly, Uncle Dave, have you ever heard of Sly and the Family Stone? And I said, actually, that was my first concert I went to. I think I was 13. And we went to the Olympia Arena in Detroit. And yeah, I know all about him.

And he says, oh, okay. I said, are you listening to him? He said, yeah, but we listen to it different than you guys did. And I go, oh, that says it in a nutshell. We hear the same music? No. We're listening differently than you do. So I was just like, okay.

All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what it is. I don't have to worry. She it's there. All she has to do is search it. You got to steer it toward the BET version where that has like edits. Yeah. I mean, we didn't have, I, you know, this is all old news, but let me put it like this. I, you know, when I was in seventh grade, I remember this kid

found these um porno still he found in a parking lot on the way home they're torn out of a clearly out of a porno magazine we traded them like they were bitcoin We trimmed and cut them. And we put, you know, you used to be able to go to the corner store and you would get like this little like plastic stuff that you could put your license or, not your license, because that was plastic, but I mean like your birth certificate, stuff like laminated.

We laminated these pictures, but we did it homestyle with just scotch tape and passed them and traded them. We didn't have internet, man. We had moving pictures. Nah, man. It's all out there. So I try to regulate like any parent does in my own house. But, you know, they got friends.

And I don't know if you have kids, but, you know, every kid has the buck wild friend. Right. The one whose parents go, fuck it, you can stay up till midnight. You know, so. My fear is my 13-year-old son might be that friend for his friends, but my 15-year-old daughter,

same thing with my daughter, where it's just like, you hit this age where you were the coolest person to them and then something flips at like age 11, age 12, and all of a sudden you're the least cool person to them. So 180. Well, I think about it. I mean, there was this girl,

I can't say her name because I don't know. But I mean, she was the coolest, craziest white girl in my class when I was like in sixth grade. What happened to her? She was bipolar. We didn't know it. I didn't know it back then.

You know, back then it was like, she does anything. She will dance on a table she's crazy she ate her eraser i love this chick then i go she's probably you know yeah setbacks yeah you know we did uh we have this podcast called the rewatchables that we do on the ringer that where we we we basically, we watch old movies. We have all these categories. We did boomerang probably 10 months ago. It's such a fascinating time. It's, it's fascinating how the movies aged. It's really a rom-com, but I don't think people think of it as a rom-com, but it's 100% a rom-com. It's Eddie at like peak of his powers, and then you're tapping into you and

Martin at really good times of your career, I think. And then there's all these actresses in it, and then a young Halle Berry. It's an amazing movie, and it's aged, I think, really well. I mean, there's obviously some early 90s stuff that wouldn't fly now, but for the most part, I was just so impressed by how well it aged well first of all everybody was in it generation everybody and so i heard about eddie murphy's new movie we're doing in living color at that time i would see the hudlin brothers just around and it was always it was like dude where you guys gonna work work with me? You know, put me in house party eight or something, dude. So they said, look, we got something coming down the pipe.

So I went to read for Boomerang. And when I went in there, Heavy D was in there. I remember Martin was there and a few other people. And they were kind of doing a round robin. I read with Heavy D. I really wanted to read with Martin. That's my boy. Come on, man.

We're boys. And we finally did. Everything was taken care of. I mean, I could see that, you know, Reggie was trying to get a look, trying to see who looked best, who sounded best. He meshed, who had the right chemistry. But when I left that day, I did not think I got got this movie and i didn't think that they wanted me in it it all worked out and keenan goes yeah you can do the movie now i just found out a few years ago that so what i would do is i would do he said you can't miss any shows so i would basically go

and miss all of rehearsal i was there for for the read-through of In Living Color, where we read. So I would leave after the table read, get on a plane and fly to New York and film and then fly back on the day of taping. We took MGM Grand. That was me and Martin. People don't know. MGM Grand was like a semi-private airline. They only went New York and Vegas, I think. They took old planes, but they refurbished them. So first class was like, it was like a private jet. You know, you had these park-a-lounger chairs. The stewardesses would come and go, how would you like your omelet today? And all this stuff.

So that's what we would do. But at any rate, I always thought Fox knew. You know, I always thought the network knew that, you know, and they signed off. Kenan told me later that they never knew. He didn't tell them because he knew if he would have asked Fox, Fox wouldn't let me do it. So talk about a boss move. Talk about a dude doing a solid. That is what he did. He never told me until I think about five years ago. Because as we got in and the deal he made with stay on schedule. It's like, we need you more. We have this new scene. And they kept calling Keenan.

And they would come to me and I'd be like, man, you got to go back because he won't let you film. You know? And I was like, what? But I had no idea. I had no idea that that was what was going on. So, you know, he's just the best. It's an important, Eddie's my all-time guy. It's an important Eddie movie because he has this run that's

like, you know, it's like Jordan 91 to 98 kind of run. Tiger Woods! Yeah, it's just like, it's all-time. It's iconic. Very few people are going to be able to compete with it historically. And then he kind of lays back

a little bit. And then he it's almost like a comeback movie even though i don't know if people felt that way at the time but it was kind of like him reasserting himself as like no no i am still eddie murphy i'm still gonna open awesome movies and i'm still fucking here well you know his his talent never wavered. Right. Especially at that time when you are the elephant in the room. And literally when you do a deal, when you sign a deal, you make everyone millionaires. That's where Eddie was. So 10% of Eddie, that's going to make me a millionaire. So there are a lot of interests at hand. A lot of everybody's trying to get, you know, do this project that I brought you. There was always that. You know, I really loved Eddie, loved him, loved hanging out with him and stuff. And I remember we were at

Bubble Hill, Martin and I, one night. And this is the difference between me and Martin Lawrence. Martin was like, his head was blowing up. I remember Eddie left to go to the bathroom. He was like, oh my God, we're here at Bubble Hill. And he said, I want this. Now, at the same time I was there, Bubble Hill, it was like, it was like. It was like his Graceland, right? Yeah. But bigger than, I mean, it was, it was like hanging out in a customized four seasons. It really, it was huge. And, but inside I was saying to myself, God, I hope I never need this.

That was the difference between Martin and I. Martin got it. So in retrospect, I guess I should have said, I'm going to get this. But you were a little older than martin at that point you probably had a little bit more of a perspective yeah i mean also it's just desire where our heads are coming from martin and i i know martin forever he and i auditioned for uh in living colors I auditioned with Martin. I auditioned with Chris Rock, Susie Essman. I remember Susie was there going, you guys should do this show. She didn't want to move from

New York. She's New York. She's like, I don't want to do this. She didn't. Love Susie Essman. During Boomerang, one of Eddie's mantras was he wanted to be like the black Cary Grant, which doesn't lend itself to a lot of comedy. is because we rehearsed. We improvised for three weeks. Wherever Eddie was, we would fly there and we would go scene by scene, all of Eddie and Martin's nice scenes.

That's why I feel like they were so good. And they were concentrated improv. So the director was there, Reggie Hudlin. He had his assistant and a note taker. And he would go, like in gym, he would say, let's do this scene. And we'd do over and over and over. Out of hours, three, four hours, we'd work. And at the end, they'd cut it down because he'd say, or if we wandered off into some tangent, he'd go, no, no, no, go back to your, you guys are

talking about David's girlfriend or his dating. Go back, go back to that. So he would guide it. So when we came back to shoot it, it was all the best stuff. They had honed from those. And also it was genius because it allowed Eddie, I didn't know Eddie. I knew Martin. I didn't know Eddie.

But it allowed our friendship to, to, to be melded together. And so I had chemistry and relationship, uh, by the time, by that first day, we knew each other, uh, which was really great. You know, I noticed that when I was doing the research for that podcast, people didn't do comedies like that back then. Like you would have like in the eighties when everybody was on drugs and they're doing Caddyshack and they're basically like, oh shit, we need a scene with Bill Murray and Chevy Chase. Let's just ad-lib something in the shed. But it wasn't really... Boomerang, I think, was one of the first ones. And then you see in the 2000s, this became a staple for Apatow

when he's doing all his comedies, right? A lot of ad-libbing, a lot of like, we never know where this is going to go. Let's just keep the cameras rolling. Well, Judd used to hang out at In Living Color. He was like 19. Really? Oh, yeah. Judd would hang out, and he would hang out with Jim Carrey and that stuff.

And I'd be like, why are you hanging out with teenagers? This dude's a juvenile delinquent. He should be in school. Why is he here? He was really sweet. You never know who knew who knew that judd would become you know the hugest most influential in that especially in that genre like like romantic comedies that kind of stuff his music movies

are wonderful he was a kid he wanted to be a stand-up and i he was selling jokes um and that's how i remember him he and his mom too his mom was like a music supervisor she had all the rights to every song as a matter of fact she would introduce herself and and she'd give you her card and she'd go if you ever do a movie i got the the song for you. And I was like, yeah, okay. Yeah, it was weird. I remember when In Love and Color launched. I was excited. I'm just a white kid in New England. I knew Jim Carrey from the Rodney

Dangerfield HBO special and he did like the Clint Eastwood and the Charles Bronson and he did like the 10 most amazing minutes. I think I'd ever seen where he's just like, he was just becoming these different people. And you just kind of, you mark those people in your head and you're like that guy,

that's something good's going to happen with that guy. Then he ended up on your show. It's like, oh, that guy's on that show. I'm going to watch it. And then fall in love with all these other people on that show. That was my gateway to it. And, you know, it's hard to explain how important of a show that was just because

between your show and Arsenio, um, there was this, this entire culture coming on the television that just wasn't there in the eighties. Then all of a sudden it was there and it was like, oh, I felt like this door was opening up to me. All these different talents, these jokes, these inside jokes, these conversations. It just, how was I, I was living in Connecticut. How was I going to see any of this stuff? Well, first of all, I never thought Living Color was going to get picked up because it was just out there. I mean, no network is going to let, there was no, so there was no HBO, Showtime, Netflix option. It was just the three big networks.

They're not going to do it. Fox was not even a network, which they told us every time we tried to renegotiate. But so we did this pilot. The pilot was an hour long. Now, Jim Carrey, who I didn't know, but Damon and Jim had done this movie called Earth Girls Are Easy. And it was like- Geena Davis.

Yes. Jeff Goldblum, I think, was on there. They became friends. Also, they knew each other from doing standup, you know? And so I think he was really responsible for bringing Jim onto the show because the whole thing was like, we can get off, man. It's not going to be like, cause we'd all done pilots. I'd done pilots. Some of us hadn't, but the main guys, Jim had a deal, you know, for his own sitcom. We all been through that. And that year I auditioned for over 20 pilots and, you. And they're all the same.

It's like, maybe David can play Rashawn, the Negro friend and stuff like that. But there was in living color, but my agents didn't want me to do it. My nobody, I didn't have a manager, my lawyer, because they knew there was not going to be any money. Well, and also we should mention just for people listening who don't know the history

of this, like Fox, when you say Fox wasn't really a network yet, it was barely a network. That was when the Simpsons was starting. They didn't get football until 1994. And I think when they got football, that's when Fox became like, oh, Fox. But it was very patchwork, I think, until then. Well, it had something to do with affiliates, the number of affiliates that they were able to secure nationwide. And anyway, so we do this pilot. The pilot was an hour long.

And we just went buck wild. We did whatever the fuck we wanted to do. But it took like a year to get picked up. So wherever I would go and work in television, the crew, the camera guys would be like, man, I saw this shit that you were in, which is the funniest fucking tape. So it was being passed around like this bootleg tape. I did an episode of ALF, which, by the way, you were banned. If you called ALF Muppets, they would kick you off the set. They were like, and they were Muppets.

You know, ALF was a fucking Muppet. He was a mean drunk, though, ALF. He was, but I just remember that. They pulled me to the side and said, man, don't say one word. I was like, what? But yeah, man, all the dudes on ALF, all the crew, the boom guy, was like, what? But yeah, man, all the dudes on, all the crew, the boom guy were like, Oh my God, what's the name of that shit? You know?

And they, we even got written up in a vanity fair, you know, Barry Diller was, was the head of the network. He would come to some run-throughs. I remember we were doing men on rehearsing it barry dillard standing there glowering next to us and i'm like it was the most heterosexual men on it just kind of ended with i hated it a two snap in a circle so it was like it was like it was like uh the network was bullied into picking us up so when they picked us up it was game on i remember we did the pilot and the audience was just primed so when you were saying the world was changing it was timing

and one of the key elements was Rosie Perez, because Rosie Perez became kind of like the unofficial music supervisor. There was no music supervisor, so to speak, but it was all Rosie, because she was the conduit to the hip hop world. Her office was full of tapes and 12-inch singles, all kind of shit. And she was like, you got to get this group. You got to get this group. You got to get this rapper, that rapper. So we got everybody in that moment who is important in hip hop came through in Living Color. And it was time, the clothes, the language, the music, all of it was right then in that moment, which was all about hip hop.

People thought we shot in New York because it had such a New York flavor. It was such a fascinating contrast to SNL, which was also having a great run at that time, right? SNL had, it was probably probably, from a talent standpoint, probably the deepest roster they had from 89 to 92, where they just had Phil Hartman, Mike Myers, Dana Carvey, Jane Hooks. They're loaded, and you guys were loaded. It felt like this era to me, looking back, where it was like, holy shit, I can't believe we had all that comedy.

It was like the Negro Leagues. Well, they would have like Nirvana would be on SNL, right? Yeah. And you guys would have whatever the biggest hip hop or rap act was. Yeah. I remember Digable Planets. Digable Planets. When they came in in they were so different

so wild man and the one thing about hip-hop then there were so many groups really young performers and so many groups and artists who had one hit it was like the 60s you know the hit would be huge but it wasn't like they came back with, you know, Sgt. Pepper. I mean, that's kind of what they did. You know, people were getting ripped off. Immediately, a group would get big. Then you sue the record company, that kind of shit. We never saw them again.

Well, and MTV wasn't playing really any of them. So if it wasn't for your show or Arsenio, that was it. Those were the only two places they're getting on and like the dudes they would come on um they would come on a show that they watched and i say that because you know as a kid when you would watch ed sullivan and stuff there would be like rock bands nobody watched ed sullivan they were too hip for, but they wanted to play Ed Sullivan. They wanted to play because that was national exposure. No, man, all the kids here. When Marlon, Marlon was in, I think he was in freshman in college or maybe a senior in high school when we first started. And he called Kenan the next day and he said, man, y'all stopped crying last night. It was like... So only three

episodes of A Living Color aired and we won the People's Choice Awards. And I remember sitting there at the Emmys. We went to the Emmys, you know, we went to People's Choice Awards, and I was sitting next to Sean Wayans. And I think

there's... he just burst out crying like when they said and the winners because we didn't know there were only three three episodes four episodes something like that and it just blew up it blew up like that like that big and for once in my life I was on the cool show usually i was on the show where they go you're on what uh okay it's three girls plus tony it's it's on cbs and they're like you know black people like no i never heard of it yeah well i'm on there you know so well it's finally that show where everyone wanted tickets you come down the green room, everybody would be in there, all like big, huge, you know, Hollywood stars and shit. And I was like, damn, I'm on this show.

And it was great. The first two years were just crazy. And Keenan would be there. He said, it's your, come on, this is your show. If you don't, if you don't. If you don't want to wait for a writer to write a character, write it yourself. I'll put it on. If it's funny, I'll put it on. And so, you know, the way we would do, we had this table where we would eat breakfast in the morning before we started rehearsal. It was around 10 o'clock. And so we would come in there. Most of the characters you saw started there.

We were making each other laugh. Jim did Fire Marshal Bill for weeks. And until we would be crying with laughter. He was like, Jim, you have to do this. And he's like, we were all like, you can't. It's too much. You can't play a horribly disfigured third degree burn scars on a fireman and play for comedy and finally we just egged him on you have got to put this on the show and he did it and it was just like i'm going in and he did it

and that became a character the same with like i did a mr mcafee who was my high school guidance counselor. His name was Irving Berg. He lost his leg in World War II. And he told us every day, but, you know, I lost my leg in the war. What the fuck did you do? Huh? Greer, you're an asshole. So I got a letter from Mr. Berg. He's retired. And he said, you know, I'm a camp counselor. He taught art at this camp. And he said, all these kids talk about this character you do on your show. And none of them believe that it's me and that I know you. Would you please write back so I can prove to these kids that we know each other? And I wrote back.

I said, no. But he was a great guy. Great teacher, great guy. Well, think like 1990 LA, all the shit that's going on because Magic and the Lakers are still riding high. Yeah.

And you have Arsenio's kind of kind of like hitting his apex and your show's going on there. and there's just a lot going on. Well, they were enemies. They were like, okay, so Kenan and Arsenio and Eddie, they all knew each other. But Spike Lee hated us when we made fun of him. He would call the station.

He would call Rosie. Seriously? Oh, he hated it. He hated it. He hated it the station. He would call Rosie. Seriously? Oh, he hated it. He hated it. He hated it, man. And Arsenio, too, which only made a king come in there and go, I'm going to do him again. We would do more sketches. So like when I would do, you know, Martin got his show and I started doing Martin.

He let me do it like three times four times after the third time he was like that's it so you know i that was my other show so it was very territorial yeah yeah you know i could have said well i'm gonna get a lawyer i'm gonna sue you can't you know it was it never got to that level because it was like that was our hood this was our gang that was your gang and uh yeah everybody's cool now i mean i see arsenio i saw mcdenner he was cool like so when i was supposed to do arsenio hall when i you know signed this deal to do boomerang and at the last moment i had to fly to new york to do a table read and I was supposed to do Arsenio that night. And I remember watching that episode and Arsenio was basically said this monologue, David's not going to be here tonight.

But it's cool. It's cool because I know for a fact he's with my boy Eddie. So we're not going to light him up. Wow. Yeah. I was like, OK, Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. So- Well, you know, the other thing about way back when was just there was a lot of people. There were less, I mean, now we have what? 700 channels, all these streaming services with TikTok. Back then it was like you could get like 15 million people watching just a random Saturday

night episode of Saturday Night Live. Here's what it was. I did a pilot. Well, I actually did a TV show. It was by the Night Live. Here's what it was. I did a pilot. Well, I actually did a TV show. It was by the Charles Brothers. The Charles Brothers did Cheers. So I was on the next show they did after Cheers. What was that?

What show was that? I don't remember. It was called All Is Forgiven. It was about the worst, lowest ranked soap opera on air. And I played this black television repairman who was a soap opera addict and they hired me as a writer. So I was talking to these dudes

when I was doing Gerard. I was doing Gerard's show, the Carmichael show. And I said- I like that show. Yeah, well, they said, they canceled us because our ratings dipped. And one of the young writers goes, well, what were your ratings?

We debuted to 20 million people. And they dipped down to 18 million. Then they took us off. You know how many people that is? That's crazy, man. That's how many people. When you had a hit back then, everybody saw that shit. Yeah, there was some Twitter account that I like.

I think it's called Retro News Now, and they published the ratings for 1976 shows, the top 15. Every show was 16 million and up. Good Times was like 18 million people per episode. That wasn't even like the special episodes where JJ gets shot. Just like the generic episodes. Yes. That's why when you,

when you, you should see why, when they canceled shows, like, well, the ratings dip. Wait, I was going to tell you this story.

So I was doing heavy into martial arts back then and looking color. And in terms of cultural influence, I was in our locker room and there was this big black kid and he had all the little peewee kids lined up on a bench and he was lecturing them. And he said, what are you going to watch tonight? And they all said, Arsenio Hall. And he said, why? Because he's the coolest dude on TV.

That's right. And then they went out and I was watching this and I went, oh, wow. No, that's how big Arsenio's show was. I don't even know what happened, but for a few years, his show

was crazy. Like, I remember he had, like, Liz Taylor, Elizabeth Taylor, MC Hammer, and like a classical musician all on the couch at once talking. That cultural, racial, ethnic mix was never seen before on television. The way he was able to just bring people on like that. It was crazy. I don't know what happened either. It definitely was happening for three, four years. And then it

just seemed like it petered out. And I've never heard a great explanation for it. Well, I think a lot of it, because as a kid growing up, my favorite shows, Beverly Hillbillies, Addams Family, that kind of stuff. In my memory, I grew up with them, meaning they were on the air for 10 years. In fact, they weren't. When you go back and look, it was four years, three years. It wasn't like MASH, some of those

really great shows. Only a few years, man. I think it's more healthy now when creators are not trying to... Of course, we I think it's more healthy now when creators are not trying to, of course we all want it, are not trying to go for, you know, a 15 year run. Rather, we're going to do the best that we can in maybe six episodes, two years, then we're out. You know, because a lot of shows after three or four years, they need to take that off. They really do. I just realized I have to rename myself

on my Zoom because that's my daughter's. We can cut that out. I will. We got it. So now you're playing Jamie's dad on this new Netflix show. And Jamie was on, was he on, I can't remember. He joined in Living Color, what, halfway through? Or it's like third season? Second year. I think it was the second year.

Yeah. So he comes in after it's already established. So there's like a little bit of a little brother thing with that. But then he became Jamie on that show. And then you watch him over the next 30 years. At some point, I think it was Ali when he plays Bundini Brown. It's like, holy shit, this guy's like,

is he going to have like this whole acting career? I wasn't expecting it. I thought he was a comedian. You know, I auditioned for Bundini Brown like three times. You did? Yeah. But I was doing my own show. It's actually a direct conflict. And finally, I think whatever happened, Jamie got it because he deserved it. And for me, it wasn't Ali. It was what came after because Ali was great. But then he did this movie with Tom Cruise. Then he did Any Given Sunday. So he built

a resume. Yeah, you're right. It was actually, you're right. Any Given Sunday was the first one where you're like, oh. And then Ali, it's like, oh, so now he can play characters. And then it was off. You're right. Any Given Sunday was the first. Tom Cruise movie was just basically him and Tom Cruise in a cab with Jada Pinkett.

Collateral. Yeah. Sneaky, great LA movie. So Jamie, by the mid-2000s, all of a sudden he's an A-plus list actor. And I've really enjoyed his career. I've enjoyed all of the choices. I think he's always relevant,

but he cannot be in anything for two years, but I don't feel like his star doesn't fade. It's not like, hey, what happened to Jamie Foxx? He's just kind of stayed cool for 30 years, but I don't feel like his star doesn't fade. It's not like, hey, what happened to Jamie Foxx? He's just kind of stayed cool for 30 years, which I think as an A-lister is almost impossible. Well, I know

Jamie. I know his life story, which more people know now. And I know his abilities. He's a classically trained musician. That was his major. He was's a classically trained musician that was his major he was always the class clown though and so he kind of dipped into comedy so he always had this music in his back pocket when we were doing living color he had like a little recording studio he set up in his

dressing room he had like a tape player, all kinds of digital stuff, you know, and I was waiting for that. And I think Fox signed him to a deal. Cause you know, they had a music thing, which is what he really wanted. And now the world is seeing it and you're right. It is to watch. There was one year where he and Jim Carrey were both at the Golden Globes, nominated. And I was watching and it was like, wow, this is so crazy because we all came from the same place. I mean, me, him, Jennifer,

Lopez, Damon. I mean, that show launched a lot, a lot of talent. What made you want to do this show with Jamie? You know, we've always been cool. And it's like the thing, you know, I see him at a few parties a few times a year. And the conversation was always the same. He's like, hey, man, what's up? You looking good? What's going on? You got my number. I got your number. Call me. Hey,

man, let's do something. Yeah, let's do something. Just keep rolling. I was last year, I was doing a revival of Soldier's Play on Broadway in New York. And I got this weird message. It was a text from my standup agent. Now, usually, you know, people who do stand-up you have that one agent because that's their forte so she goes would you be open to having a conversation with jamie fox i got this from his lawyer he and i had the same lawyer and i was like yeah because i knew what this was about it was going to be some Tarantino shit. Probably going to be dark, moody,

dramatic, and we're about to get these Oscars. I was like, yes! So we finally talked, and he said, man, I'm going to do this comedy. And I was like, yeah, but it's going to be dark and crazy. People are going to die. Yeah, right. And I'm going to get this Oscar. And I was like, yeah, but it's going to be dark and crazy. People are going to die.

And I'm going to get this Oscar. And he goes, actually, it's a sitcom. And I was like, what? And he said, he said, man, listen, it's what we both really believe. The country is going through PTSD. I mean, after Trump, COVID,

all this shit, man, we really, people are trying to get these laughs, man. And before we get too old, I want to do this, you know? And I was like, okay, but where are you going to do it? And he said, on Netflix, man, we can do anything we want. And I was like, okay, cool. So he said on Netflix man we could do anything we want and I was like okay cool so he said um don't worry about the script because it had me it has you as my father um because we can change it and I said no no no leave it as your dad this is television I mean to me it's funny that people all of a sudden they're like chronologically by a lot well physiologically is that possible jamie and i are like 11 years apart i mean you know you see television where actors you know uh golden girls estelle getty was younger than i am now she played i don't remember anyone going

but is this realistically can can she be their mom? No, man, we're just comedy, okay? So he did that. We got Bentley Evans, who created Jamie's show, Jamie Foxx show. He worked with Martin. Bentley was Kenan's runner when we did Partners in Crime. So that's how far back we go.

What I'm telling you is, you know, to walk in a room and you don't have to explain yourself. You don't have to tell people, this is how I work. This is who I really am. And hopefully, this is my voice. No, we all know each other.

So I don't have to expend any of that energy, man. It was mostly him encouraging me to go farther, do more. Because I was like, he said I could say anything. But you know, everybody says that. Bill, I want you to do a show. You can talk about anything you want. And you're like, yeah, okay. But I'm your boss.

But I won't really be your boss. Because you can say anything. You say anything, they're like, get off, get out. You can't say that. So I would, this was kind of like, I'm going to do this script. And Jamie every day for the first week, at the end of the day, he'd send me a text and said, you know, you really can say anything you want, David. This is just like a guideline. And I'm like, yeah, okay. Or he would catch me, Bentley,

as I was getting in the car and say, yeah, I want to tell you one note. And I'm like, what? Say anything you want. And so after like three or four days, we're doing this scene and we started improvising and Jamie goes, go, go do it, do it, do it, do it. And then we just, it just blew open. It blew up and blew open. And from then, uh, never looked back. So it's been really fun. It's really fun, really relaxing. You know, I remember I came out, I think November, 2002 to work for Kimmel show when it was launching. And then we had that first year at some point you either, you must've been on, I mean, I'm sure we pulled you on at some point. But I remember they were like, Dag's the best. Dag's the greatest. Dag's the greatest guy. He's like, he's like one of the only real guys. Like this

would be great. And you've, you've kept that your whole career, which I think is pretty rare, right? You just have like a unanimous approval rating with other people in the industry. I do remember, yeah, I can have bad days like anybody else, but- I don't believe it. Well, I have, but here's the deal. It is who I am. It's authentic portrayal of me. And also, you know, as a young actor, I encountered older actors or older performers. We've all had that experience. You know, one of your idols,

you meet them and they're a fucking nightmare. Like, oh God, you know, they ruin everything. I never wanted to be that dude you know because i've i've gone through it i've gone i've seen it i've had to work with those guys and you're just like what a fucking douchebag you know so i try not to do that and if it's that that means i shouldn't be doing this job so i'll go do something else also there are a lot of things at play, man. I never thought 30 years ago my career would be like this at my age today. I never, because I thought, you know, I'd be like in Santa Barbara or someplace, you know, retired. No, man, this is is and i feel like i'm finally figured out how to do what i do uh and i'm much better at it because of all this experience i put in my 10 000 hours

so i'm just trying to have fun and it is a joy i do know know, you know, I was listening to, I was actually, I read a review of this Bob Dylan concert and this is a recent Bob Dylan concert, you know, before COVID and the reviewer goes at the end of the concert, Bob Dylan stood there and he was very emotive saying, you know, it means so much to me that you guys come out and you see me now. He's in the seventies and he never did that. He barely, he was like Miles Davis back in the day. He barely faced the audience. He was like, fuck you. It's my art, my poetry, and I'll stomp off. But, you know, you can get older and we cherish, we process things differently. So that is who and what I am. And also, so like with Jamie and I coming back together after all this time, that is really the vibe

that's on the set, you know, because 30 years ago, we were all young. We were like young, hungry lions. I want to get that. I want two steaks. I want your spot. And it's different now. You know, we're older, more mature, and we just want to enjoy and do great things, which allows for more generosity and sharing, man. Go on and get yours. Go on and get yours. Go on and get off, because that's going to make me better. Before we go, I have sports questions for you. Yes.

I'm from Detroit. I'm a Michigan alumni. You got to know that. Just like my man, Jalen Rose, who loves you. The pod five. Aren't you happy we did the Fab Five documentary? I felt like that was a weirdly important document of a team that really mattered.

That's probably the 30 for 30 on the proudest that we did. You know, the one element that was missing is the Fab Five came of age, it was exactly in sync with In Living Color. You know, it was, so when i say culturally musically where their heads were at as young players was a absolutely in line within living color all of it uh i remember them and i'm i'm shaking my tip my head to the side because I've watched the Fab Five five times already. I just watch it over and over again. Love that.

Love all of it. And Jalen Rose, man. Jalen Rose is a gift. What a gift. I love him, man. Listening to him, watching those guys. Jalen and Jacoby. Big fan.

Michael or LeBron? All right, I'm going to tell you a story. You have to be in one camp or the other. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to say Michael, and I'm going to tell you when In Living Color was popping, they did the upfronts.

For people that don't know, once a year, this is when everybody flies to New York, all the networks within the same two weeks, and they all announce their new schedules, new shows. So every year, that would coincide with the Bulls and the Knicks meeting and playing in New York City during the upfronts. I remember one time Robert Townsend and I, we just bum-rushed. We got on the elevator, we went to Madison Square Garden, and we just rode to the top.

You know, the VIP entrance takes you up to like this VIP bar area and shit. That's where everybody was hanging out. We were hanging out there. They never asked us for tickets. So when the game started, we just walked down. And for the whole game, we would just go

sit with people. And then the guards would be like, dude, y'all gotta go. So we were courtside. We were hanging out. And the Knicks were waving at us. The Bulls, they were the whole game until finally we got kicked out. But we did that for two or three. So my memories are of that time of year

when the Knicks were great and the Bulls were, Michael Jordan was banging and just, I was on a living color, staying in this suite, going shopping, and we would see Michael Jordan, man. And the Bulls killing it in the garden. So come on, man. I love LeBron, but they're not the same. I don't understand why people compare them.

They're not the same. It's like comparing Jim Brown to a quarterback. Fair. I just wanted the younger generation to hear. I figured your Michael take would kind of align. But, you know, when I was a kid, my parents would, you know, the generationally, we loved Muhammad Ali. And they were like, he's no brown bomber.

And I'd be like, who would name themselves the brown bomber? Who the fuck is this? It's Joe Louis. That was my parents, my uncles. They're like, Joe Louis whooped the Nazis. And I'd be like, eh. And I remember seeing Joe Louis because he was from Detroit at a funeral one time. And he was an old battered boxer. And my mom was going, you know, in hushed tones. That is Joe Louis. Look over there. He was at the church and I saw this beat up old dude. I was like, you know, we saw Muhammad Ali on American Bandstand. That's like being on MTV. That's being on like TikTok now. He was a rock star.

Muhammad Ali would go on and do poetry. Nobody ever did that shit. Okay. So same deal. They should not be compared. LeBron can never do what Jordan did. Six for six. Stop. Stop

talking about it. That's old man talk. He can do other shit. He's going to be great. He already is great. He's already redefined the game. I love everything about him. They're just not the same. Stop. So let's say October 1990. You're in not the same. Stop. So let's say October 1990.

You're in a nightclub in LA. Jordan walks in, Magic walks in, and Eddie Murphy walks in, all at the same time in three different entrances. Yeah. Where do people's eyes go? Who owns

the room? I'm going to say Eddie because, wait, did you say 90s or 80s? I'm going to say 1990. So you've had it in living color for a year. I'm going to say Eddie and I'll tell you why. Because you said club. Club.

Now maybe if you would have said an arena, a sports bar, that's different than a club. Now, maybe if you would have said an arena, a sports bar, that's different than a club, because Eddie was a creature of the clubs, especially back then. So yeah, man, I would say probably Eddie, because that's how people, he would roll with his entourage, all of them, thick, rolling out into the night, no cell you could do that people weren't you know uh i would i would say probably off the top of my dome i would say eddie because eddie was huge huge huge huge huge huge i asked when i was doing tv with magic and we would just we me and jay want to be in room with him for eight hours watching basketball and i And we would just ask him ridiculous questions. And one time we asked him, Hugh Hefner and Dr. Jerry Buss

decide they want the same girl in 1980. Which one of them gets the girl? And he was like, Dr. Buss. Like he made a face. He was like, Dr. Buss, it's done. Dr. Buss gets her. Hugh Hefner. Hugh Hefner gets,

you gotta think the girl's a young girl. Hugh Hefner can get you the centerfold. Dr. Buss gets her. Hugh Hefner. You got to think, the girl's a young girl. Hugh Hefner can get you to centerfold. Dr. Buss can get you... That was my argument. Magic was adamant it was Dr. Buss. He was like, if Dr. Buss laid his eyes on you, it was over. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I wasn't rolling like that. I know, first

of all, because Magic went to Michigan State. I went to Michigan. He's from Irving. Not Magic. That's the first thing you know, right? He's just a sweet guy. We always do time to Tybo. People don't know, back in

the day, Tybo was like a club, dude. You'd be in the back. You saw everybody. Everybody was in Tybo. Sports stars. It was a thing thing and then everybody started getting back problems from it last question

yeah they always talk about um like Belushi Chris Farley how just in a room when nobody's trying to be funny

there are just people that are like the fucking funniest like they it's just clear in a whole big room they're just funnier

they're gonna try to out alpha funny everybody else in the room. And that's who they are. Who was it? Who was it in your circles in the nineties? Was there somebody that in the room was just funnier than everybody else? Or was it just, everybody was funny to me? Uh,

well, you know, because my personality in those things, I was really kind of quiet and self-conscious. I didn't really hang out because it was too weird, man, to be with like Eddie, Arsenio, Kenan. I mean, Eddie was the alpha, but Eddie was very cool. Right. Because when we did Boomerang, we basically made each other laugh for 15 hours. And here was the dynamic. I thought Martin was the most naturally funny that just when he described, what did you guys have for breakfast? We're falling on the floor the way he described how he made an omelet. So they're all talking, telling these stories.

I mean, it's hilarious. I'm crying laughing. And at one point, Eddie, they're talking about girls, you know, this girl, that girl. And Eddie goes, David, you ever date someone famous? And I said, with no irony, I dated a girl who had a sidecar once. And of course, they fell out. That was not a joke. That's what it was.

So no, I mean, that's what I mean. So for me, it was Eddie in that situation. I was always scared to meet Richard Pryor because when I did my first job I did with Lynette McKee on Broadway, she said several times, she said, oh my God, I wish you could meet Richard Pryor. And for me, Richard Pryor was like my Charlie Parker. That was the dude. That was the major comedy influence to this day. And, but so Lynette leans close and she goes, he would either love you or he would hate you and want to kill you. I just went, I'm good. So I had many opportunities to meet him and I just was like, I'll wave,

you know, like that. You probably played that correctly. Yeah. I'll tell you one last story. I went to a Hollywood party at this woman's house and Steve Martin was there. And who else? Steve Martin and SCTV. Martin, Martin, Martin. Oh, Martin Short.

Martin Short. He came in. So it was Terry Garr's house. And Terry Garr was a friend. And she goes, David, I want everyone to see how funny you are. So already it was weird. I'm in it and we're playing charades. And it's Steve and Martin going head to head like it was a one-on-one game with LeBron.

Oh, my God. Yeah, and Michael Jordan. And I just satron. Oh my God. Yeah. And Michael Jordan. And I just sat there and they were sweating. Shoes were off. They were like, David, do that squirrel.

And I'm like, I'm good. Tap out, tap out. It was intense, man. It was like, I was exhausted just watching them.

And yeah, those were two alphas and nobody was given an inch. They were like, no, I'm going to fucking kill you. That's theirs. All right. My AirPods are dying and we kept you for an hour. I'm really happy that you have the show, Jamie. I'm happy you came on. It was great to see you. I'm glad you're well. Yes. Yes, man. Let's talk soon and let's talk about some more sports. I'm not baseball. I'm just waiting. Let me ask you a real quick question while I have you. The Lakers, man. I don't think LeBron's as injured as everybody says. Is he?

You think he's rope-a-doping it? ankle, but I also think it happened at a time when you need to sit down. He was going to sit down anyway. He knows he's got to come back right. This is just what happened. They need to be careful about making sure they're a top six seed and not fucking around with those playing games is

the piece. They can fall to a six seed and it'll be a tougher road, but if they're healthy, they'll still be the favorites. But once you go into that seven seed, now you got extra playoff games. You got extra tension. So that's what, as long as they're top six, they'll be fine. Okay, we're going to see.

I'm not convinced about Brooklyn because as you know, anything can happen in the next two months. They're like a crazy super band where they could implode at any moment. Those are just my thoughts. I don't think the Clippers are going to win the championship this year.

Okay? They could, but I don't think they will. That's all. What do you think? It's going to be a fascinating science experiment. Yep. Yeah. I can't wait.

I think the playoffs are going to be really great this year. They're all kind of crammed in. They're condensed. It's going to be a lot of games. I agree with Nick Wright, though. He said like, you know, Rondo 2016. Yeah, but it's 2021.

So all that. I just love basketball and I cannot wait myself. Anyway, it was great talking to you, man. And take care. We'll talk soon. Great talking to you, man. And take care. We'll talk soon. Great talking to you too. Thanks, Dax. See you at Kimmel's, bro.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Thank you. Later. All right. That's it for the podcast. Coming back on Thursday with one more, including a very famous person. So we'll see you then.