The Bill Simmons Podcast - Friday Rollin' With Joe House and Mallory Rubin (Ep. 257)

Episode Date: September 8, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the Patriots' deflating opening loss (6:00), Kareem Hunt's rookie breakout (11:00), Gronk vs. Eric Berry (16:00), the downside of Tom Savage (22:00), Kyrie's thoughts on the Celtics (31:00), and way-too-early NBA odds (36:00). Then, The Ringer's Mallory Rubin joins to break down the lack of offseason NFL story lines (43:00), Antonio Brown's 'Dancing With the Stars' gimmick (49:00), player movement in the NFL (55:00), the spiritual element of enjoying fish (1:01:00), the best bacon (1:12:00), and final thoughts on 'Game of Thrones' (1:20:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. You didn't think you'd hear from me today after that Pat's last to do. Is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor, the easiest way to shop for tickets. Thanks to the revolutionary grading system. Football fans, for $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase on NFL tickets, use promo code BSNFL, download the SeatGeek app or go right to SeatGeek.com. We're also brought to you by MyBookie.ag. They do 100% cash bonuses.

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Visit mybookie.ag. Use the promo code Billsimmons to activate the offer. You play, you win, you get paid. We are brought to you by TheRinger.com, where I brought back my Friday football column. It came back. It rose from the dead. And it's about 1,500 words longer than I'm going to try to aim for it every back. It rose from the dead. And it's about 1,500 words longer than I'm going to try to aim for it every week. But had a lot to say about the bizarre nature

of the NFL offseason and how it started to overshadow the actual season. Laid down some picks. Changed my pick strategy. I'm just doing three or four bets every week, including teasers this year. So check that out. It's on theringer.com. It's coming every single week during this season through the Super Bowl,

unless I get hit by a bus or something. So check that out. Don't forget about the Ringer NFL show, which is heated up this week with Robert Mays and Kevin Clark on Tuesdays and Fridays. GM Street with Tay Frazier and Mike Lombardi. And people have been asking when the next Rewatchables podcast is. We might tape one today.

We're debating. We know we want to have one up, and there's like three different movies we want to do. I might have to do a Twitter poll to see what America thinks. So stay tuned for that. Follow that feed if you haven't already. One last thing. Larry Wilmore's podcast had old Ringer friends, John Favreau and John Lovett on it,

who used to host the Keeping It 1600 podcast for us, and now they're on Pod Save America. That podcast was excellent. I listened to the first half last night. It was good to hear those guys. Anyway, Joe House, Mally Rubin, coming up. But first, the Rock and Roll Hall of Famers, Joe House. He has not been on this podcast for five to six weeks, and there's a good reason for that.

House has his own podcast. It's called House of Carbs. He talks about food every week. He's had a bunch of ringer staffers on. He's had a bunch of celebrities on. He's had me on a few times. It is already one of my favorite podcasts ever. House, this is your dream come true.

You've become a food maven. This is so kind of you. I appreciate it. I was always a food maven. I mean, I'm not, I mean that with all due false humility. But having the opportunity to share my enthusiasm with all of our podcast pals is possibly my life's greatest accomplishment. Please don't tell my parents that.

Yeah. No, I'm with you, man. I think your second greatest accomplishment is my daughter Zoe Simmons. It's her favorite podcast. You know what? We were driving to soccer this weekend in San Diego, two hours. She's just like put House of Carbs on. It was like the first choice over everything, even over Jam Session,

which is now her number two favorite podcast. Sorry, Amanda and Juliet. I've been getting a lot of great feedback from women who have expressed a great bit of support. And I think it's because of Juliet. Juliet really resonates with the people. Yeah. You know, and Jacoby was mad because we took food news from Grantland,

which Jacoby used to do with Juliet. I just like to remind Jacoby that Don't Get Fired was my joke, and now him and Jalen have made a running segment. So to me, that's an even trade. We get food news, he gets don't get fired. That's fair, right? Nobody had to throw in a draft pick? That's definitely fair.

Yeah, shut up, Jacoby. House, you came here, I think, four weeks ago, and my body still has not recovered. Do you like how I'm procrastinating from not talking about this Patriots game, by the way? I gained between four and five pounds and could not fit in two pairs of my jeans, which was pretty embarrassing. How many pounds did you gain? I was closer to double digits. I was in the eight to 11 pound range in terms of the weight gain.

The biggest culprit for that, two big factors for that, one was the lunches. I don't eat lunch like that. Me neither. Nah. Those are like old-school lunches when I'm 23, 24, 25 years old, a 3,000 or 4,000-calorie lunch where it's the middle of the afternoon, 3 o'clock, and I'm dozing off. And I might even catch 15 minutes of a cat nap back in the days when I was a young lawyer. Close the door and just catch those 15 minutes to have a coffee and power through the rest of the day. I'm glad that's what you're doing when you close the door. We can't do that anymore.

I'm glad that's what you're doing. I said I'm glad that's what you're doing when you close the door, napping. They didn't have five-star lotion back then. We had one night where we had three different dinners in the same night, which we basically described the whole food weekend on your podcast a couple weeks ago, if people want to hear it. But we had a dinner, and then we went, Chris Chen took us to this foot massage place where they did,

what was that type of massage called? Like a circulation massage? What's it called? There was some reflexology, for sure. So it was really interesting. It gave you superhuman strength. I've eaten a lot of meals with you over the years. It was the first time I've seen you gain strength as the night went along. A little like how in Vegas, when they pump the oxygen in the casinos, this was like the food version of that. You immediately ripped off a second meal and then a third meal, we're thinking dessert, which for you, dessert was a pastrami sandwich, half a hot dog and a bag of French fries. And this was like 11 o'clock at night i don't think that was helping your health or or your weight uh your weight limit that week i would say that was that was a big culprit that was probably a three pounder all by itself that that that 11 o'clock you have to remember my body clock that that was two in the morning for me well if people if you

love food it's a podcast for the hungry by the hungry. And, uh, and again, my daughter's, my daughter's, uh, most beloved podcast. Speaking of three pounders and three pound dumps, I want to talk to you about Kyrie. Cause we have not discussed, you and I have not discussed that in this podcast yet, but the Patriots took a three pound dump tonight and I'm torn about how how I've been out of shape I want to get about it I was very careful on the Twitter last night as you call it the Twitter um I I actually thought they there's a scenario where if Grok just catches the second touchdown they're up 14 nothing and they probably win like 56 to 15 or something. Instead, he dropped it. There's some weird fourth and short calls. I have no idea, none, zero, zilch, why every time it's fourth and inches, they don't

just spread it out with five receivers and Brady, who has to be 100% in that situation. It's unstoppable. It's always been unstoppable. Instead, they went conventional and tried to ram the ball down. The Chiefs had 10 guys stacked in the line. They're trying to ram the ball into it. I have no idea why they kicked a field goal. They had three fourths and inches situations, and they got stuffed twice and kicked a field goal, which is like, come on.

Brady was really bad. I'm not going to panic about that yet,. Brady was really bad. I'm not going to panic about that yet, but he was just bad. Other than the long throw he connected to Cooks, his balls were sailing high. He missed open receivers the whole night. He looked uncomfortable. He had a pass that he was two yards over the line, which was unconventional.

And the two things that I'm actually legit concerned about, one was the defense, who I was worried about anyway, because they just don't have the linebackers and the edge rushers this year. And then Hightower gets hurt. And all of a sudden there's guys out there that I just heard of two days ago. That was bad. Andy Reid was waiting basically three quarters of the game to run swing passes and wheel routes to Kareem Hunt, who I don't think we had a linebacker who could have defended him. That was one thing I was worried about. The other one, I thought Gronk looked like an old man last night.

He looked like a Raldus Chapman trying to cover first base. He did not have the same explosiveness, did not seem to have the same coordination, and just seemed, you know, obviously he wasn't drunk, but it seemed like he just seemed uncoordinated and aging. What was, you watched the game, what was your biggest takeaway watching a team that you don't care about? The thing that I was most surprised by is how the Pats' defense got pushed around

and how thin the defense looked to me. I thought that the Chiefs were deliberate in saving something for the fourth quarter in terms of the wheel routes you're mentioning. I think that that was intentional. You know, they kept running that shovel pass thing to Kelsey, which, you know, had kind of mixed success, but it was success more often than not. And they were able to get over the top a couple times with their speed in a way that was surprising to me. But if I was a Patriots fan, you can chalk up nearly all of the Brady misfiring and the way that Gronk looked and everything

on the offense, I would say, not converting those fourth downs. I would chalk all that up to just first game of the season stuff. And I agree with your point that if they'd gone up, if the Gronk catch had been allowed, they would have been tough to beat. The thing that's concerning to me is they got pushed around on defense, and they looked slow on defense, and the Hightower injury is concerning. So I don't know how they're going to shore it up, but I always like the Pats getting 10 days before their next football game.

Hightower is probably the only indispensable guy on that defense for everything he does. But then also just a lack of depth at that position in general. But their front seven, you know, again, the Patriots have been here many times and people panic, especially defensively. And Belichick ends up moving people around and acquiring some weird guy from another team nobody's ever heard of. And then somehow it all works out. But the thing that scared me about last night, the chief scored 42 points.

It felt like they had about 20 penalties. Did you notice that? Like they were super sloppy. They made a ton of mistakes. They shot themselves in the foot over and over again. And they still scored 42 points. And I didn't even feel like they played that well, other than Alex Smith connected some passes,

and then their offense got going in the second half. But if you're a Chiefs fan watching those first three quarters, you're like, oh, my God, we're completely blowing this game, giving it away, or you're blaming the refs. The call seemed pretty fair for the most part, but their penalty advantage at one point was like 13-2, and yet they still won the game by 15 points. And if you're in the AFC, you're keeping your fingers crossed now

that Brady looked like a 40-year-old man last night, and that's not an accident because he's 40 years old. He really is 40. I thought they really missed Edelman last night, which is not the last time I will say that this season. But Brady did not have that receiver out there that he just had the complete 100% confidence connection, has been through all the wars with.

Amendola's probably the closest. But you saw what happened with Amendola last night. He doesn't stay on the field when you play him all the time. I think he got concussed, but he got nailed another time over the middle, and he's just not as durable as Edelman. I think it's risky to expect him to play 19 games. I think I'd settle for 13. It doesn't feel like he's... They need to use him sparingly.

You can't try and get that kind of workload. That Edelman workload needs to be allocated across a bunch of guys. You're absolutely right that they looked slightly discombobulated by TB12 not having his number one guy. Like, you know, surprise, surprise. He was hurt two and a half, three weeks ago. So like, yeah, they don't already have the answer. I'm not really that surprised by it. It goes further than that, though. The most important thing he's had for 15 years his success

and failures, it's always been that slot guy that he completely trusts. First it was Troy Brown and Troy Brown had an awesome run. Then they didn't really have anybody for a couple years after Deion Branch left. Deion Branch left for one year I guess. So it's Troy Brown

Deion Branch, Deion leaves. You really felt it that year when they probably should have won the Super Bowl and they just didn't have that receiver. Welker comes in. He's great. Welker gives way to Edelman. He's great. This is really only the second season in the last 15 years that Brady doesn't have that one guy who's like, oh, it's third and seven. They're doing this. He just kind of looks over at his dude, and that guy knows exactly what Brady's thinking, and then it happens. You would think he would have that connection with Gronk.

I don't know whether Gronk's banged up or whether Eric Berry just is great and shut him down, and Eric Berry ended up getting hurt at the end of the game. But Gronk was not open in that game. He just wasn't. Even the plays that he made, there was somebody draped all over him every time. It was an atypical Gronk performance. I didn't think the Chiefs could cover Brandon Cooks and was frustrated that Brandon Cooks,

I don't know how many catches he ended up with, but he also drew, I think, three flags. But just in general, it seemed like a game just unleashed Brandon Cooks. Maybe Brady doesn't feel 100% comfortable with him yet. I'm concerned, though. I think between Brady's age and the defense, people are saying the Pats are going to go defeated. I think there's real reasons for concern. Now, the good thing is for the Pats, they're in the AFC East and it's not like that's going to be a kick-ass division.

Sal and I did the pot on the Guest Alliance this week. It was minus 550 to win the Super Bowl, all 31 teams other than the Patriots. You could have every team for minus 550. That seems like one of the great bets of all time now, right? Is it still available?

No. I need that. I want that right now. The odds have definitely shifted that way. What is the number one thing you're excited about this football season? Other than gambling. That's it. Only gambling.

I live for the gambling anymore because I don't have a local team to root for. So all I root for is my bets. The single most exciting thing for me is rejoining with Cousin Sal on the Super Contest. That's what I'm excited about for this football season, brother. Do you have your picks yet? He sent me his, and I sent him mine, so we have five picks.

Should we talk about them? Yeah, we could go over it quickly. I want to talk about Kyrie with you, but we should definitely hit this quickly. I picked this in the column, too. I like the Rams minus four because of Scott Tolzien. He's Scott Tolzien on the road getting less than seven. I'm in. I'll take it.

I can't believe it. That was one of mine. Go ahead. I did the Ravens, who were plus two and a half in the contest in Cincinnati. I just like the Ravens this year. And one of my September gambling philosophies is ride the teams that you like or don't like. And for me, the Colts are, I want to short the Colts. I think they're going to be terrible, which is why I took the Rams. I like the Ravens. I like what they did. I like how they beefed up their D. I love Justin Tucker. I like the special teams.

They have a good home field. It's why I wrote today, they're the team in your fantasy league that wins ugly every week and you don't understand how they're winning, but they keep winning. And I think it starts this week. I have them in the NFL wins pool that we do every year. And that's the theory that informed, that was the thesis as to why I selected them. I'm concerned about Joe Flacco's back. If Joe Flacco's back turns out to be a bad back, then it's going to be another bad season for the Ravens.

Well, he's fine. It's not like you get hit playing court. Oh, shit. I took the Seahawks plus three in Green Bay. I just like the Seahawks. I thought... It's such a good game. Yeah, fair line.

I think they have a 50-50 chance to win, maybe even 60-40, and I'm getting three points, so I just grabbed that. I like the Titans, who I don't really like this season, but I don't like the Raiders as much. I did not pick the Raiders to make the playoffs. I think they've been a little overrated. I think there's a little too much smoke getting blown up their butts. And I think that too many people are on the bandwagon, basically.

I like the fact they're playing in Tennessee, those early September games in the South. By the way, good luck to everybody in the South this weekend. Holy shit, Hurricane Irma. I know. I know. But usually the weather in the South those first couple weeks and the opposing team just wilts as the game goes along. So the Titans were minus 2.5, and I actually liked that one. And then the last one I had was the Chargers on Monday night,

plus 3 in Denver. I just think they have a better team. We had Coup on the podcast on Wednesday. I'm ready for Koo Sanity. Phil Rivers in Denver. And it's the same thing as the Seahawks. I just think they have a really good chance to win. I like getting points.

So what did you take other than the Rams? Yeah, we both took the Rams. I put in the Texans, so I'm going all favorites. I mean, it's just the beginning of the season. I don't have any guts whatsoever. So my three selections were the Texans at minus five because I just love – I talked myself into that Houston storyline of them coming out and just going out gangbusters.

Yeah, it's a good one. And anything less than a touchdown against the Jaguars with the Texans at home, the first game in Houston, Yeah, I like that. And I also took the Vikings minus three on Monday night. I just like them at home. I think the Vikings are good, good to very good. I think that they and the Seahawks are kind of the class of the NFC. I mean, the NFC East is going to sort itself out. I'm leaning towards the Eagles there, but

I like the Vikings, the Packers, and the Seahawks. So I like the Vikings at home, three against New Orleans. Hold on. Hold on. I really like them too. I almost took them. I like that team and I like the rookie running back who I overpaid for in my fantasy draft, Cook. I think he's going to be really good. I actually think this is going to be the year of the rookie running backs. In my fantasy draft, I wanted to end

up with at least two of them, but between Cook, you saw Hunt last night was after the fumble, just fantastic. He broke a better record. McCaffrey, Fournette, it's pretty loaded and it's a position that needed a little invigoration

so anyway I'm with you on Minnesota but I'm always scared of Breeze on Monday night it's just a it's an allergic reaction he's one of those guys you hate going against on Monday nights it's like oh my, Drew Brees, you got 458 yards. So I stayed away.

I'm right there with you. They're in a dome, which also doesn't help, but it's just, I can't, I've seen too much of that New Orleans defense and every year, oh, it's improved, they've improved this spot and that point, and then they come out and give up 48 points. So I just like the idea of three points at the end of the game,

the Vikings at home, that's all. And then Sal started doing on the ringer, he's doing his best bet every week. We're making awesome videos out of them, so you can check that out. It's on our Twitter feed. Sal took the Steelers minus nine, which I loved. I have them in it.

That was one of my picks in my column. I teased the Steelers with the Chargers. Oh, my. On the Texans, the Steelers, like the Browns, all the signs are there. There was a little hope there for a little bit, and then all hell broke loose the last 10 days. Garrett got hurt. It just seems like they're headed for another Browns year.

But I looked at that Texans line for a long time. The macho man, Tommy Savage, just scares me. I'm not ready to wager on him yet. I wanted to. I looked at it. All the same reasons you had. I think the Texans' defense is going to be terrific. I think they're going to run away with the AFC South by two wins.

I just couldn't pull the trigger on macho man Tommy Savage. I want Watson to be in there. I'm waiting for Watson. I'm right there with you. The thing is how I got over that reticence was Mr. Blake Bortles. That's kind of what helped me get over my concerns there. To Blake Tannick. Blake Bortles facts.

Blake Bortles and Tom Brady have six MVP. Go ahead. Yeah, shout out to the Blake Bortles Facts Blake Bortles and Tom Brady have 6 MVP go ahead shout out to the Blake Bortles Facts Twitter account one of the best accounts on Twitter right now House I'm giving you a recommendation on Instagram there's an account called Drunk People Doing Things that is

basically somebody took all the videos I took in college and now they're just putting up fresh 2017 versions 3 or four times a day and it is outstanding and are they a sponsor no they are not a sponsor can we have them be a sponsor of house of cars I want to sponsor them up my alley I want to sponsor them it is it's just tremendous it's people jumping off a deck into a pool but somehow hitting a table and like nobody nobody really getting hurt but like people just throwing up on each other and it's just all

the stuff from college that uh that we miss that is now captured on this account it's it's hilarious anyway speaking of gambling house draft kings one week fantasy football they're hosting a $100,000 contest. Totally free to enter. One big wrinkle this year, if you draft the perfect lineup, you can win $1 billion. DraftKings. Billion with a B?

Yeah. Lots of ways to play. You can choose between public contests with big cash prizes, private contests where you compete against a group of friends, or my personal favorite, single entry contests. Each person can only enter one lineup. They have beginner and casual contests where you'll play against people of similar skill level as well. The best part about DraftKings, draft a new team each week without any commitment. Go to DraftKings.com right now or go to their app, the DraftKings app. Use promo code Simmons

to play in DraftKings free week one contest with $100,000 total prizes. Remember, if you draft the perfect lineup, you can win $1 billion. That's promo code Simmons. Eligibility restrictions apply. See DraftKings.com for details. I do

DraftKings every week, but I like fantasy on DraftK kings more than i actually like real fantasy at this point real fantasy is just everybody has the same picks or the same sleepers and the same opinions and you know the draft i had on tuesday night like levy on bell went for 71 dollars david johnson went for 69 and somebody somebody took three $50 receivers. And it's like everybody has the same information. Who do you use for that league? What service do you use?

I don't want to give a plug, but I'm just interested. So we use CBS Sportsline for that for no reason. We pay for it. That's for us, too. So this is what I want to ask you. My very favorite thing about CBS Sportsline is they give commentary on the quality of your selections and your draft, and they do a weekly email every week that ranks the teams and so forth, based on their own metrics for where players should have been drafted and then what players you should have inserted into your lineup.

Yeah, it's an automated writing about your draft. I agree. I enjoy it too. My very favorite thing is getting a bad grade in the CBS draft. That means I always know that I did a good job if I got a bad grade from CBS. Because I find their ratings to be extraordinarily terrible. I think they're bad at it. But I love, I got a C this year. I was about to say C for championship,

mother effer. I also love when they try to guess what the score of the matchup's going to be, and the scores they assign to each player are usually way off. I go to it every week. It's my go-to. I can't enjoy it enough.

I always get mad. I agree. I'm getting mad at some automated system. You know, I will say, people who run CBS Sportsline, if you're listening, it's not an accident that when people go to the top part of your menu

and they're trying to click, like, My Team or Standings, and, oh, accidentally I've clicked an ad. Like, you don't need to do any mouse chicanery. You're better than that CBS Sportsline. Don't quickly switch the menu so that all of a sudden I'm accidentally clicking on an ad. I know what you're up to.

Don't do that. Well, I am complimentary of them on balance. I like very much the weekly snarky comments. Me too. The name of my team is My Son Likes Your Daughters because I'm in a league with a bunch of guys that all have daughters that are the same age as my son.

That's great. Yeah, so I love it when it comes up. My Son Likes Your Daughters could have won this week, could have beaten, I'm not allowed to say grabbed p***? Sure, why not? Well, that's one of the teams in this league. We'll just bleep it.

The grab P word, we can say that. But, you know, would have beat, if only he'd followed the advice and put, you know, Travis Kelsey in ahead of whatever. That's my favorite part of CBS Sportsline. We switched to a different service, I think two years ago, to quote unquote save money. And all of us just hated it. And we had almost a revolt against Jamie, the guy who was running the league, who stabbed me in the back on Tuesday night and tried to vote me out.

And I had to win a Connect Four job. Oh, my God. Yeah, Jamie. Has it been publicized? Did you do Twitter and Instagram on who got kicked out? Yeah. I beat Kyle on Connect Four to stay in the league because Jamie, who I've known since he was 16, and I've helped him every step of the way.

He decided to ram the Ari's sword into my back. There'll be payback. I'm waiting. Tate, if you ever do anything like that to me, I will run you over in a car. Let's talk about Kyrie really quickly. Give us your thoughts. So I was really, really, really disappointed

that it turned out that Kyrie really did want to be traded and that Cleveland really was inclined to accommodate that because you know how much I love a conspiracy theory. When I saw all of this, my conspiracy theory antennae were raised and my eyes were going back and forth, I preferred to think that that whole thing was a play by the worldwide dominator, LeBron James, to create the narrative. He learned a very important lesson with the decision, and he was not going to repeat that mistake. And he now has all of the infrastructure in place between his management team, the agency, the representation of players, and his own PR firm to put out a story with an intended, desired effect

that's going to put him in the very best light. I thought he was creating the story that was going to give him permission to go to L.A. next year. That's what I thought that whole thing was about. And I thought at the end of the day, Kyrie would stay in Cleveland and that there was some payoff for Kyrie behind all of this, that, you know, some inducement that LeBron could offer Kyrie, but that the intended effect of showing the Cavs management to be bunglers, which really doesn't need much in the way of furtherance after this summer because of what happened with Griffin and all of the, you know, they didn't make any moves.

But I'll be goddamned if I don't remember the young man's name who is the successor to Griffin off the top of my head, he might be the GM of the year for that trade for the swindle that they pulled off against the Celtics. Swindle? It was a swindle. Kobe Altman. Swindle. Okay.

Kobe Altman. Sorry. Let's hear why you think that was like a three-minute monologue. You buried the lead. You thought it was a swindle. It was a swindle. It was a swindle. The reason it was a swindle is because the Brooklyn pick was supposed to be the compensation for little guy's hip, for IT's hip.

Everybody knew that IT had a hip problem. He didn't play in the playoffs because of his hip problem. We knew that it was something that was going to linger into the beginning of this season. So the only reason that the Celtics had to include the Brooklyn pick, without any protection whatsoever, was for the purpose of, you know, sort of buying Cleveland's agreement to hold their nose and approve the trade, notwithstanding whatever came out of the physical.

That's the point of the unprotected Brooklyn pick. So they got to that point. They were right on the brink of it, and they were like, you know what? We want a little bit more. They got a second rounder. And the Celtics turned over and gave it to them. Nah, they gave them a second rounder. Who cares?

Look, they got more. They got more. That's the point. The whole thing was fine. I was willing to concede to the Celtics that Brooklyn pick unprotected. I think Brooklyn's going to be terrible again this year. I don't buy

the narrative that they're slightly improved and the East is much worse, so Brooklyn might end up, that pick might not be a top five pick. That pick is going to be a top five pick once again, let there be no doubt. I think that that was a really, really valuable asset that Cleveland

now has and can move in so many different directions. That was totally fair compensation for Kyrie. I mean, the fair trade was just Kyrie for IT straight up, and if IT didn't have it, the injured hip, that would have been a fine trade. But all the other pieces, I mean, come on. Kobe killed it.

Well, if IT was completely healthy, I think the trade would have been Thomas Crowder and maybe Boston's 2018 pick and a second rounder. Who knows? Or maybe the Memphis pick, whatever they had. But, you know, you're getting one year of Thomas, and we have no idea when he's coming back. That feels like a problem. You mentioned the Brooklyn pick.

So Vegas has, and I don't want to step on our magical over-unders podcast that we do every year. But Vegas has their over-under at 27. They have Atlanta under that. They have Chicago under that at 22. They have Sacramento at 27 and a half

and phoenix at 29 so phoenix at 29 yeah that seems that seems a little high we're gonna get on that one somebody in the somebody in the well we already made our bed we should tell america we made the big one philly was 41 for some reason. And you, me, and Sal. 41 and a half. 41 and a half. You, me, and Sal just, we pounced on that like you pounced on the pastrami sandwich that night. We pounded it.

I just, I can't believe. Nobody factors in durability with these wins odds. If they get 100 games out of Embiid, Fultz, and Simmons, well, 100's low. Let's say 100 and, what'd you say, what's the over-under? What's the over-under where you would bet over? Simmons, Fultz, and Embiid, total games combined, 120? I like it like 150 as the number. Let's make that bet right now.

I'll give you 150 over right now. Right now. Italian dinner. That's 50 games for each of them. Yeah. I'm giving it to you. Give 150. Italian dinner.

Okay. We're doing it. That's great. Good. Great. Kate recorded it. So let me ask you this. Would the Celtics right now trade Kyrie Irving for injured Isaiah Thomas, Jay Crowder, the Brooklyn Pick, and Zizic?

No. So both teams win. Of course. Circumstances matter. I mean, you know, the Celtics have put themselves in the very best position to vanquish the Cavs, and the Cavs did the very, very, very best they could do when there was only one other suitor. I mean, the only other suitor, according to the reports, was Milwaukee, and it didn't sound like Milwaukee was really bringing heat.

They weren't really at the table. So it was the one team that had interest and Cleveland got the very best offer, the very best deal they could get out of Boston considering there were no other suitors. It's fine to think of it as win-win. I don't have any problem with that. I still think it's a swindle.

There were suitors. The problem is once Kyrie found out about Boston, he started sending out stink faces to the other teams that were chasing because nobody's going to give up a shitload for Kyrie found out about Boston, he started sending out stink faces to the other teams that were chasing. Because nobody's going to give up a shitload for Kyrie if he's saying, like, I'm not resigning there in two years. So he was able to control the market. And this happened with Paul George, too.

Once it gets out that the player wants to go, it does become a little bit harder to trade them. I thought Cleveland did the best they could have done under the circumstances. I thought it was a really smart trade for them, and it allows them to keep their feet on both sides of the fence, depending on what LeBron does. I still think LeBron's leaving. I think Kyrie thought LeBron was leaving.

I don't really think he'd like playing with LeBron that much. I keep coming back to... I'm not sure about that. Playing with LeBron got him to the finals three consecutive years. Yeah, and he did it. He was able to be on that very biggest stage and distinguish himself on that stage. I mean, where else is he getting that opportunity? And he did it, and he graduated from it.

And now he wants to play with other people. Because if he liked playing with LeBron, he would have stayed there. There was no reason for him to get traded. I really like the way KD put it when I did the pod with him, which is basically, KD is like, Kyrie's like me. He likes structure. He just wants to hoop. And he was tired of every year, this happened, that happened, this might happen. He just didn't want to do it anymore.

That made sense to me. And that's totally fair. You and I are, I mean, even before this trade, you and I were both in the, what the hell is everybody doing? Kyrie Irving is awesome camp. Were you surprised that so many people out there were kind of downing him as not a franchise player,

but as somebody who could be one of the two essential pieces on any great team, which is really how you have to look at this stuff, because there aren't any franchise players. There's LeBron and Durant. But were you surprised that people were so willing to kind of discard what we saw in the last three playoffs? Well, the problem is, and we talked about this a little bit, me, you, and KOC had a podcast where we were trying to compare

the merits of John Wall to Kyrie. I just think it's impossible to separate Kyrie out from the Cleveland situation and get a really good assessment for who he is. I mean, you can run the numbers for how he looks on the court without LeBron and how he looks on the court without K-Love. But those are not great sample sizes, and you can't really give yourself a warm, fuzzy feeling about exactly who the player is and what kind of – part of the thing that's hard also with Kyrie is is if you're going to put him in that category of a top 15 player, he needs to be

a little bit of a leader. And I feel like we don't know anything about what kind of leadership potential he has, which is another sort of aspect of playing with LeBron and, you know, another reason why he might want to get out from under the LeBron umbrella so he can go out there and show folks that he has that leadership capacity. But there's enough unknowns, I think, to be sort of cautious about it. I'm going to give you the odds for the Eastern Conference right now. You're going to tell me what you like. Cleveland Cavaliers, minus 125. Boston Celtics, plus 225.

The Wizards of Washington, plus 1,500. The Bucks of Milwaukee, 20-1. Incredibly, inexplicably, the Philadelphia 76ers are 20-1. I just am stupefied by that. What are you talking about? I'm dumbfounded. I don't understand it. Dumb being the operative word.

Toronto is 22-1. Miami, 25-1. The Pistons are 100. Now it gets wonky. 100-1. Charlotte's 125-1. Philly, 20-1. Miami?

So Miami was 25-1. And I actually could see them regressing this year, but they also have the possibility of maybe making some move if somebody becomes available. Who knows? The Wizards at 15-1, though. That seems high. You're easily the third-best team.

They have a move to make because the Marcin Gortat expiring contract situation isn't going to go great. And they have to figure out what they're going to do between the $16 million man, Jan, my foot feels soft, Mahinmi, and Gortat, who's making less money than that. And I think what they're going to do is move Gortat. So I don't know yet what the team is going to be. Gortat was really important, is really important to the pick and roll effectiveness. He sets the best moving picks in the league. Yes, yes. Well, God bless the league for permitting it.

I don't understand why Cleveland is minus 125 and Boston's plus 225. I feel like those should be a little closer, considering we have no idea when Isaiah Thomas is coming back. And if he doesn't come back, I don't like that casting. Here's the thing about Boston that I think makes it fair. They really gave up. They lost a lot of depth. And the thing that I'd be worried about as a Boston fan is, when is the team going to find its defensive identity?

Because that's really the thing that distinguished Boston last season. They played really superlative defense and then let the little guy go ahead and just run amok in the fourth quarter. And that was a formula that worked last season. That's not the formula for this team. Can I remind you that Washington was putting up like 125 point games in the playoffs and Cleveland was shooting 60% in four of the five playoff games? Well, Cleveland is not the comparator,

but Washington is a very good comparison. And you saw what happened. Washington had superior talent, but not superior depth. Boston beat them with defensive depth. John Wall had three straight bad games efficiency-wise because Avery Bradley was in his chest and Wall had to play max minutes. We talked about this a little bit ad nauseum at the end of those playoffs. We have plenty of time to talk basketball. Mallory Rubin just got here, so I want to audible.

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Mallory Rubin is here, the mother of dragons. Hello. She is fresh off kind of recovering from just an insane run of Game of Thrones, which we're not going to talk about until the tail end of this today. But I wrote my column today about how the football offseason has just completely fallen apart and it started to affect how people actually care about football as a whole. And at the same time this was happening, the NBA has turned into a 12-month-a-year sport. And we've seen it with the traffic at the ringer and just what people seem to be

interested in we can write about the nba in mid-august and people read it they care about the personalities they care about stupid stuff like who's the social media mvp some random pick them get a pickup game that was being played in new york city um the fact that lebron posted some instagram post to him working out this is all stuff that is just constantly going like i read this piece yesterday about house of highlights which i think is a fantastic instagram account and kudos to omar 22 year old uh maniac but um he's basically saying house of highlights is by far the the biggest traffic for them and what they go in all in on the most is NBA. It's like NBA, NBA, NBA, the NFL, like last night in the pregame, they ran this clip. It's like touchdown

celebrations. And they showed like four or five guys, like, here's my touchdown celebration. It was like the NFL is awkward way to seem personable and have a connection with fans, and yet they don't. I wrote in my column today, I was writing about Aaron Donald's holding out. He's probably the best defensive player in the league. Nobody's having an Aaron Donald conversation. It's like, oh, you think Aaron Donald's? That's not a conversation happening in our office. But if Kawhi Leonard was holding out,

our office would be talking about this for five weeks. So Mallory, what do you think are the reasons why the NFL offseason is dying other than the obvious? Well, first, just to reply to that last part first, Kawhi Leonard is also, he's on the Spurs, right? And Aaron Donald is on the Rams. And people don't care about the Rams. And weirdly, they care about them less now that they're in Los Angeles than they did before. Maybe Anthony Davis would be the right thing right he's a top 10 player who's on new orleans who's not going to do anything right and so even then even if he even if an nba star is on an irrelevant team that player is one of a handful of guys on that team who people know and care about

and doesn't wear a helmet right that's a big part of it the endorsement deals obviously are a big part of it you just see these guys in the nba constantly people read about football and engage with football year round but part of the problem obviously that the nfl is facing and there's no like easy way to talk about this is that most of the nba news and not all of it certainly there's some dark nba news too there's dark news everywhere in the world right now it's's a dark time in our lives. But most of the football news, or at least a lot of it, increasingly a lot of it, is extremely unpleasant. So the stuff that you're writing about in the offseason is often going to be about the latest CTE study or the latest domestic violence allegation against a star player. It's tough for fans to engage with the sport in that same way and then when you add

the star power and the way that nba superstars like lebron or durant are not only the best at what they do and fun to watch and rewarded for having fun at being good like the fact that antonio brown is going to get fined or flagged when he's doing the absolute peak of what he can do scoring an amazing touchdown and then twerking right yeah or celebrating that sucks it's hard to engage with that as a fan fully and celebrate it when you know that the person who's participating in it is being punished in some way like that's tough. I forgot to put him in my column. You just reminded me when you brought him up. He had to go on Dancing with the Stars to become more famous.

Like, that's really, why else would you go on Dancing with the Stars? That's not like, oh, I want to win the dance competition. You're trying to build your brand. There isn't a top house. Is there a top 35 player in the NBA who would go on Dancing with the Stars? Is there a top 50 player? What's the cutoff line for an NBA player who would go on Dancing with the Stars? Is there a top 50 player? What's the cutoff line for an NBA player who would go on Dancing with the Stars? 100.

100. Because everybody runs their own show. I mean, J.R. Smith is Twitter famous and Instagram famous. What number is he on that list? Yeah. I mean, it would honestly have to be like Kyle Korver or somebody. It's like a role player who has no profile. That's the point, though, right? Is he on that list? Yeah. I mean, it would honestly have to be like Kyle Korver or somebody. Oh, God. It's like a role player who has no profile.

That's the point, though, right? It's unfair to compare the two in this sense. There are only 10 guys on a basketball court at a time, and none of them are wearing clothing that obstructs who they are. And there are 82 games. So the basketball, it turns out that NBA is absolutely perfect for social media, and football has maybe 10 guys or 15 guys. Like if Aaron Rodgers held out, that would be a big story,

and we would be talking about it all the time. But this brother Donald playing for the Rams, like, you know, I can live without it. Call me in, you know, it only matters to me in terms of how I bet for or against the Rams. That's the only data point that I care about. The NBA basically, as an institution, magnifies and elevates somebody's pre-existing and the NFL stifles it or stifles it by its very nature or at times actively works to obscure it.

And so the institution itself is kind of working against the height of celebrity somebody playing in it can reach. You know, Tom Brady, you tell me if this is a crazy thing to say, is obviously extremely famous for being the quarterback of the New England Patriots and winning Super Bowls, but he's as famous, or at least a big part of it, is that he's extremely handsome and married to a supermodel. And has been modeling and wearing Uggs and being goofy and weird and also happened to have the underdog story because of the fact that he was underdrafted. And he's been in big games and he's been around for a long time

and I think that's another issue. Right. You have Priest Holmes for three years, he's gone. He's just gone. Guy put three of the best years together and within two years he's gone. Le'Veon Bell bell three years from now is he still going to be at the height he is now i don't know it was interesting on hard knocks to hear doug martin who is like relatively speaking as a person in the world a young man and in nfl running

back standards ancient talk about that candidly like especially because he has a suspension this year he was basically the subtext of his commentary was wow that's a that's a lot of time off my very limited clock like when i get back out there i have to work hard to be relevant again and i think players are extremely aware of that it's like damian lillard he's gonna put house how long does damian lillard play 17 years maybe 18 years I mean, he's got at least another 10 to 12 years, we would say, right? If he's a running back, he's, I don't know, an awesome version of Deion Lewis. Right. Maybe he plays nine years.

But these guys just come and go, and there's so much turnover. High praise for Deion Lewis right there. I do think, though, the arrogance of the NFL, where they didn't want these guys to become personalities. They wanted it to be team franchise. And you look at the way that they treated Brady with the flake gate, not to bring up the flake gate for the millionth time, but I just don't think the NBA would do that. The NBA would never say, hey, we have a chance to get LeBron James.

If anything, they would go the other way and cover up whatever the information. They don't want anything to happen to LeBron James. The NBA realizes that the marketability of their stars is the key to their success. And I really honestly think the NFL for years and years believed the marketability of our logos and our cities and our stadiums and our franchises, that is the key to our success. And all these guys are completely interchangeable. House, is that too dark? No, it's 100% true. And I think it's kind of, I don't mean to be geeky about it,

that's basic labor economics, right? It's in the interest of the ownership of the NFL to not permit any of the players to have a basis that would change the leverage of that relationship. That's why they went after the very biggest dick on the block, Tom Brady, and took him down. That was a show of force by ownership against the labor force of the NFL. I mean, George Atala at NFLPA might come over and punch me in the nuts for this, but, you know, I think that whole thing was orchestrated for the purpose of creating a dynamic for the next collective bargaining agreement.

Like, every one of you players, this is what the whole point of punishing the players the way that they do now. This is Ezekiel Elliott, sixgame suspension based on the NFL's own investigation that is apparently superior to what the police and the prosecutor did in the state of wherever. I'm sorry, I'm slipping on the state, but you know, that's why this concerted effort to punish

the players, they are actively undermining the capacity of the players in the next collective bargaining agreement to argue for a bigger share of the pie because they're all fungible. They're all replaceable and they're all, you know, in the public eye, capable of, you know, being forgotten quite quickly. And that's in the owner's interest. So part of what I wrote my column about today was that only four years ago, it feels like

a million, but when i was running grantland in may of 2013 i asked robert mays to just start doing a countdown to the nfl season right and it was a different era it was like everyone football would go away you'd feel this sense of real sadness kind of what mallory's going through with game of thrones right now we go away for two three weeks then free agency would start then also in the combine and the draft and by the end of the draft you know then there was a little bit of a low but now you're ready for football to come back and then like mid-june the fantasy magazines would go on the newsstand right they barely have newsstands anymore there's the internet though

those great days of newsstands and by by the beginning of July, you're like, football, football, football, football. I don't know if it's me or whether this is just the way it's going now. But I felt that way this week. I did not feel that way five weeks ago or 10 weeks ago, 20 weeks ago. That excitement for the season. Now that the season started, I'm in it again. I don't know how long this version of me as a football fan is going to last, but did you feel that, because you've been in the content business, Mallory,

for, I don't know, since you got out of college. Do you feel the change now in the off season where people, the excitement just isn't what it was maybe six years ago? I think, so yes and no. I mean, I think it's hard to gauge excitement because that is so specific and personal and will vary from one human being or cluster of fans to the next. But I do think there's a correlation. It's partially in response to the fact there's actually more content than ever, right? So you used to not have the option to engage with the sport year round. There's a correlation. It's partially in response to the fact there's actually more content than ever, right?

So you used to not have the option to engage with the sport year-round the way that maybe you would have wanted to. And now there's just saturation. There's so much. Everything is covered basically like the Super Bowl year-round, whether it's football or not. Everybody wrote these articles this year about Game of Thrones being covered like the Super Bowl.

So it's not even just specific to football and it's not even just specific to sports as a consumer in the world you just have choices constantly and so maybe you're just now presented with more choice than you ever had and so passion point choices yeah when you can choose between you know going on a deep dive on youth soccer research or reading your wide receiver rankings a little bit early, maybe you choose the youth soccer deep dive because it's something you couldn't have even done before, and you know that the football stuff will still be there for you on the regular timeline.

So I think people love football. I think it is increasingly uncomfortable to be a football fan, and that's a real factor. But when the Chiefs and Patriots were playing last night yeah it felt like the only thing in the world people cared about for a minute and obviously there are there were other terrible and very important things in the world happening and that comment does not discount any of that but instantly the NFL just assumed its natural position as the dominant cultural and sporting touchstone in the world and there's a reason that we have five pieces on the ringer about one game it's because

it was really exciting and energizing for people yeah and so I think you'll feel that again very quickly I think part of the offseason is also determined by who's in the draft who's in the free agent class what kind of movement is there. Obviously, this year you're talking about, how exciting is it to talk about the Raiders relocating? Is that a thrilling thing to be talking about all offseason? It's depressing for a lot of people. It's not as exciting as shirtless LeBron working on Instagram.

Exactly. And you can also literally get that exact plot line, should you choose to do so, on Ballers on Sunday night. Literally, you can just choose a more condensed, entertaining version of the same thing. So, I think that's funny. Are you a 12-month-year football fan or a 6-month-year football fan now? Just 6 months, only 6 months. I revved up just like you in the last week because I got excited about betting on NFL futures and betting on starting to formulate a perspective on what teams I like sort of power ranking-wise

so I can try and not go 0-16 the first week of our picks pool and try and have a point of view on what teams are going to win some games so I can try and win that pool. It's all personal to me, and I love this idea of the curation that we're talking about here because that's the way that I consume football. I care about it only for the purposes of the fun of the gambling and the camaraderie that comes with that. Like all of the circles of friends that I have, I'm still in one stupid fantasy football league, but it's just because I love that group of pals.

Me too. The rare one. Yeah, exactly. Stupid Fantasy Football League But it's just because I love that group of Me too The ringer one Yeah exactly Oh I can't wait I didn't read that story yet Oh my god Oh my god It's I just want to apologize To you in advance

Mallory was a winner And a loser In this story To you Someone who You know Maybe thinks of me As a

Like a balanced Rational person The funniest thing About Mallory in 2017 was for years and years was presented a certain way, both internally and externally, and now the last four months, people have seen the real Mallory. Showing you my truest self.

You've cried 12 different times on audio and video. At least. You've raided coworkers. Two things to say about that. I can't believe, Mallory, that you're available for this podcast. If Bill Simmons

was a better boss, you would be in Hawaii right now. I tried. That's what you deserve. I tried. I had like an intervention. Not next week,

but the following week I'm going to go see my family. Yeah, we were like trying to force her to leave. Yeah. Well, you should be somewhere drinking a delicious Juliet. You know the beverage I'm talking about, Mall force her to leave. Yeah. Well, you should be somewhere drinking a delicious Juliet. You know the beverage I'm talking about, Matt.

Of course. Absolutely. Who doesn't? You should be enjoying a delicious Juliet and maybe even a little poke on the Hawaiian beach. That's the only place you can eat the poke is in Hawaii. So I heard on House of Carbs. Wait, hold on. I want to talk about food.

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home loan with Rocket Mortgage. Skip the bank. Skip the waiting. Go completely online at quickenloans.com slash Bill Simmons, equal housing lender, licensed in all 50 states, NMLS, consumeraccess.org, number 3030. Okay, so the Simmons fan went to Hawaii. You are probably the two people I know that love food the most. Love food.

For different reasons. Love food. House will eat food like an animal. You are probably the two people I know that love food the most. Love food. For different reasons. Love food. House will eat food like an animal. You're not at that level. But I brought you a pie once and you almost melted. It's the same level of appreciation. I love pie.

So we go to Hawaii. We're in Maui. And there's this part of off of Maui called Pai'ia. They have a place called Mama's Fish House, which we've been told to go to. There's a little inn there that I didn't realize that looked awesome. But we go to Mama's Fish House, and they have awesome drinks and all this stuff. But then incredible fish cooked in all these different ways. I end up getting the mahi-mahi crusted in some sort of whatever house. Oh.

I know you love fish. You have my attention. I know you love fish, but when you're in Hawaii and you know they've pulled the fish out and they've chopped it up, what's better? You don't feel disgusting after you've had a prime rib or something where you just want to lie down for three hours? Fish you can actually eat and regroup. If you could eat fish for the rest of your life, I'm giving you no other meat choices, anything, just fish, would you do that? I would. A thousand percent, yes.

I have to tell you, and this is something that has occurred as I've gotten older, because you can't do what you're, when you're 25 years old with carbs and meat and all the rest of it, and the cheese and everything. I can eat so much fish and not feel any bad after effects. So I can still get that satiation that I desire, that my body is accustomed to. And I have the great good fortune of being able to wake up the next day and get on with the day. I don't pay such a heavy price any longer. But the thing about what you're describing and that Hawaii experience that I find super compelling and also is part of why I didn't hesitate to say yes is because consuming fish that way has a sort of existential vibe to it, right? Yeah.

Like you're connected to the planet in a way. You're taking this great harvest that came out of the sea. I mean, I can get spiritual about it because I think it is, there's a real spiritual element. Like, when I eat prime rib, I am definitely not thinking about what that poor cow went through to give me that wonderful bounty that's on my plate. The fish, I have, for whatever reason, this mindset that fish is there for the purposes of providing a harmony between us, the human race, and all those fishes in the sea. We're all working together for the same good outcome.

This is beautiful. And I think that fish gave its life for a great piece or a great moment to help me wake up the next day feeling energized and healthy and wonderful. Wow. My goodness. that is that was beautiful really beautiful a little shocking to hear you live in washington dc so you're a man of the mid-atlantic what about what about conservation and sustainability how about our bay how about our chesapeake bay and the crabbing the dmv and what's happening there you just think it's just those crabs are just there for you. That's it. No, no, no, that's not.

No, there was a harmony there as well. And the great depletion of the crab population, the poor sacrificial blue crab in the Chesapeake Bay, that's the offshoot of, you know, chemical farming and so forth. The bay has been catching, you know, tonnage of runoff from states like New Jersey and Pennsylvania and, you know, northward, coming down and filling the bay with terrible chemical stuff. That's what's hurt the crabs. It hasn't been over-crabbing that's produced the shortage. But why do people treat bodies of water that way?

That's a great question. Because they're not thinking about the sanctity of the fish itself. The life that that fish deserves. You're right about that. We are in agreement. And this brings me back to Hawaii, which is going to be the second home for the ringer in about four years. Oh, man.

I'm in. I'm in. I'm inviting myself. I love the following things, and I'm in. I'm in. I'm inviting myself. I love the following things, and I'm always afraid to order them. I'm especially afraid to order them on Postmates or any of those food apps, because nothing's worse than getting fish like 45 minutes after the fact. No, don't do it. I love clam chowder.

Me too. I love clam chowder. Me too. I'm always afraid to order clam chowder, but I know in Hawaii I'm getting the real clam chowder, which is what I got at Mama's Fish House. I love lobster bisque. Delicious. It's just, it's the best. I really love lobster bisque when I know they just caught the lobster.

I love shrimp. I like the big fat shrimps that they obviously just caught. And it was like the shrimp was trying to run away and they grabbed them. Those are just things that you can't get unless you're in a place like that and i think i i could just eat that stuff all the time i would not it always made me nervous like even in boston which is known for the clam chowder yeah i was gonna say it sounds like you're describing a new england life to me well but the problem it's like a pokey situation or like even crabs in baltimore where it becomes such a thing. Oh, I won't order a crab cake anywhere else.

There's a lot of shortcuts. Well, it's just because people, they know it's the thing of the place, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're getting the best version of the thing. I always get nervous with that. So anyway, house, fish. I think we need an all fish House of Carbs episode at some point. This is a great idea. Because we kind of touched on it a little bit with David Chang. We'll have to think about who in the fish world would be the right emissary or combo of people.

It doesn't have to be just one person, but we really need to treat fish fairly. Yeah, what's the single best fish order that i should be the most excited about because the staples are always on there right like you'll see the swordfish you'll see uh the mahi-mahi is always there you it'll go through and then like the salmon which can be hit or miss depending on how fishy it is but i'd love to know like from a chef if that's on the menu you get that like the chefs always say like filet mignon on the bone is always fantastic if it's on the menu you get that the chefs always say filet mignon on the bone is always fantastic if it's done correctly

and they have a couple other steaks but when I see filet mignon on the bone I just know I know I'm going to enjoy it I'm 100% in I had a fantastic veal parmesan at the Palm in Beverly Hills the tomato sauce was not typical Italian tomato sauce.

It was more like that sweet kind of tomato sauce. Oh, yeah. I like that on veal parm. Nice pounded veal. Yeah. The cheese was burnt on the top, which I really appreciate and like. Nice strategy of crispiness.

Yeah, I feel like when they put the cheese on, they kind of bake it in the griddle, almost like they would bake a waffle or something. Of course, of course. That's exactly what they did. But, House, you're saying you're willing to give all that up. You never want to bite into a bacon cheeseburger again. You never want to get the fried chicken from Popeye's.

No, he does. Don't worry. He 100% does. Ever again. He definitely does. No, he just pointed to me as, would you consider this? And the answer is yes, I would definitely consider it. You can never have a piece of fried chicken again?

Can I tell you about... I understand. I get it. No, House is eating fried chicken. He's doing lip service on the fish. He definitely can't not eat fried chicken. One other place I want to tell you about in Hawaii that I just think should be copied here. There's a place called Slappy's.

It's a pancake place. They put the big giant griddle grill in the middle of the table, and they bring the batter, and you make your own pancakes. So you'd be like, I want buttermilk, or I want gluten-free, or I want apple whatever. And they actually bring the batter out, and you squirt it, like you would squirt a ketchup bottle. And fry the pancake yourself, flip it. They brought all these sides like bananas, chocolate chips, all these different things that you could put on the pancake as you're making it.

Are they doing any guidance? Are they riding shotgun to say, all right, wait, that's too thick. It's not going to cook properly. You're going to have a cookie center. You a big giant fat pancake you can make like my son was making little tiny ones right i was one of the best ideas for a breakfast place i've ever seen like my kids i'm not into this at all you're it's too much work way too much well you could order too you could have just ordered pancakes also if i go to a restaurant it's because i trust the people in that establishment to know how to make the product better than i could make it so you don't order pancakes. Also, if I go to a restaurant, it's because I trust the people in that establishment to know how to make the product better than I could make it.

So you don't like interactive foods? I enjoy the ambiance at a place like that and the vibe and the communal spirit. Everything, basically, that was missing from the Ringer fantasy draft. But I don't want to do that work. I go out to eat so rarely. I want to be able to relax and enjoy myself. You just put the batter on there and then you cook it. I like having control over the constitution of the pancake itself.

Like I'd like to be able to say, oh, no, no, no. One more handful of chocolate chips. Right. One more little like cloud of whipped cream. But I don't want to actually have to do that. House, you're telling me your son wouldn't like to go to a restaurant and make the pancakes himself. So this is precisely the point. This is a wonderful idea for families.

Yes. A great place to go with kids. A great way to get a kid interested in food. I wish it existed here because it would be a fun way to introduce my kid. You know, he actually has a natural curiosity for cooking and food, and I'll put him up on the high stool. I mean, he's 70 years old, he's pretty tall, but he can't reach all the way up and look down into the food as I cook it. So we've had some nice conversations about, you know, red beans and rice and, you know, roasting

a chicken and so forth. The pancake idea is a fantastic one, and that's what this restaurant is for. I wouldn't do it because it's not really for adults. You wouldn't go just me and you, it'd be weird. It's just not for adults. There's pizza places now that are doing this too, where you kind of make your own pizza and then you give it to them. A kid idea.

Make my pizza for me. What's your 2017 food thing you're most excited about, Mallory? Oh, God. What's been your most postmated order this year? Good question. My wife won't let me get chicken parmesan anymore. Probably John and Vinny's.

Because I do that for dinner and breakfast. Oh, you get that? What do you get for breakfast? The breakfast is incredible. It's incredible. They have like an amazing banana bread just with like a little salt on it. Yeah. Yeah, salted butter. It's exceptional. Yeah, they do

like I'll even, I'll trick myself into ordering some fruit when I have breakfast there or rather when someone brings me breakfast from there because they have like a creme brulee grapefruit. It's basically like they just pour a bunch of sugar on the grapefruit and then burn it. It's delicious. The pecan seeded granola there is outstanding. You get that with some Greek yogurt.

I always also get an egg dish, either the soft scrambled eggs with burrata or the fried eggs. Soft scrambled eggs with burrata? Incredible. What do you think of that house? Absolutely outstanding. It's delicious. And they have like a really like a, like a thick,

hearty, crusty bread that they grill. It's delicious. Also, they have among the best bacon I've ever had. Ever. What qualifies for the best bacon you've ever had? Because I have some legitimate bacon thoughts. So me personally i like a crispy bacon i don't like a soft chewy

bacon how thick are we talking i like a thinner crispier bacon if it's thicker like squirrel in los angeles has a very thick bacon and that's one of the few places that i really like quite enjoy the thick bacon whether or not they listen to my request to make it on the crispier side, just because it's so flavorful and delicious. My one thing about the thicker bacon is if you get a really fatty piece and it's not cooked the way you ask, that can be kind of a tough experience. So that's a steakhouse thing where they're like, yeah, we make the bacon, they bring it, and it's just loaded with fat and you never know what to do. I don't want that. I like the thick, nonfat. A lean. Cooked.

I like my bacon cooked. Have you had breakfast at Republic? Yeah. They have the bacon steak. They call it. Bacon steak? Yeah. And it's about, man, I want to say it might almost be like a quarter of an inch thick.

Wow. Like it's like a tall, thick meat piece. I think House passed out because he hasn't even grunted or said anything. He's got like a maple glaze. You're just not saying anything. Maple glaze is delicious. Maple glaze. That's another key thing.

Yeah. One is the bacon steak is interesting. I'm trying to figure out how to distinguish it from pork belly because pork belly is ultimately the best. It's basically pork belly. Through the delivery of bacon, that's fine. I agree with the idea. I think you need to separate your bacon. If you're going to do a steakhouse bacon, I was at Peter Luger's three weeks ago, a month ago.

Everybody at the table got two orders of the bacon. It comes out. It does have fat in it, but that's where the flavor comes from. If it's not to your liking to eat the fat and consume the fat, don't do it. I prefer to rub it all over my face because I want to smell like that bacon when I wake up the next day. And I ate all of both plates of bacon that arrived. But if you're wanting a breakfast bacon to go along with, like an omelet or other things, it's a side to accompany things. I'm in the school of Reuben. I subscribe to the Mal School,

which is a crispy, thin, just as a delivery mechanism for something that's salty and crispy to go along with something wonderful like eggs or a delicious... Exactly. What's all the crunch? Come on.

You want the crunch. You want the texture. Come on. You know what i've come to grips with i went through the turkey bacon because you know yeah it's healthier come on you know what no it just sucks right has anyone ever like thoroughly enjoyed turkey bacon the problem is it doesn't it's never gonna crisp up the way you want to. The only way that I have found that I like turkey bacon at home is if we bake it in the oven instead of using a skillet because you're never going to be able to fry it the way you

want to. You just aren't. It doesn't have the fat content. But if you bake it, it's interesting. Yeah, that's right. That's how I make all bacon in my house. It goes in the oven at 400 degrees. There you go.

Where do you guys stand on candied bacon? Because I had that at Slappy's. They had normal bacon and then candied bacon, which was a little sugary. Slappy's. Which, of course, Ben Simmons, between that and the pancakes and the syrup, Ben Simmons was Cornelia. Was it sugar? Was it chocolate?

Was it just like a maple kind of coating? No, it seemed like a maple sugar. They put the bacon and then they cooked it in the maple sugar. Is it chewy or is it really crispy? No, it was the same bacon. Crispy. It was interesting. I liked it.

I'd have to be in the right mood. No? Yeah. It's almost an extra. It's a totally separate experience. Like I still would want the regular bacon. And then you're getting that as almost a dessert of sorts. For children. If you had a choice between crispy hash browns, breakfast potatoes, or potato pancakes, what are you picking?

I'm always going to pick breakfast potatoes over crispy hash browns. Always. Okay. Now. Is there a reason? I just, I think almost always better seasoning almost always better seasoning that's that's a good point too often with the crispy hash browns now if you're at a place where you know they're delicious that's a different equation but if you're

just going into a new diner you want to try it out i think the hit rate is higher on the on the breakfast potatoes too often the crispy hash browns are just kind of like, kind of just taste like grease, which is the same problem potentially. They rush the hash browns. Yeah, with the potato pancake. Now, you know, I'll speak as a member of the tribe here, as a chosen person, as a Jew.

You have to know. There's a quality control. Yeah, you have to know. Like I always ask myself, would Marion Rubin sign off on this latke? Would grandma think that this is a suitable presentation? This sounds like my Aunt Jen with meatballs. I always judge my meatballs by whether my Aunt Jen would have approved.

I'm more likely to be disappointed by a potato pancake than I am to really enjoy it, even though I love them in general. That's so funny. I'm the opposite. I've never been disappointed by a potato pancake than I am to really enjoy it, even though I love them in general. That's so funny. I'm the opposite. I've never been disappointed by a potato pancake. If there's sour cream and applesauce, I'm just happy. They're too bland often. House, be the tiebreaker. You need some onion in there.

Well, this isn't going to be helpful. I would choose, and this is exactly what I would do if I walked into a breakfast place I'd never tried before. I would order both the crispy hash browns and the potato pancakes. I would leave alone the breakfast potatoes. It's worth the gamble to me that the crispy hash browns are done properly, which is crispy and salty. And the potato pancake is a separate thing altogether.

You kind of hit on it a little bit, my friend Bill Simmons. It's a nice vehicle for other things that might be on the plate, and if it has the right consistency and it's kind of thick enough, I love a little dollop of sour cream. You know what else goes wonderful with a potato pancake? A little hot sauce. You could put a dab of your Cholula on that guy with the sour cream, a little bit of heat with a little bit of cool. And that's a nice bite.

And you might have crammed a little scrambled egg in your mouth at the same time as that bite. That's a nice bite of food right there. And that's why I would get both the hash browns and the potato pancake. The breakfast potatoes are the best vehicle for the hot sauce. I think she's right. So if you're interested in the hot sauce experience, you have to get the breakfast potatoes. I will say that I, what it really comes down to is I really like the sour cream and applesauce combo. I hate sour cream.

Yeah, so that. I like the applesauce. I like sour cream, not applesauce. I like pierogies too. My kids eat pierogies. Sure. I love pierogies. My wife will boil them first and then cook them in the pan

so you get a little brown on both sides The kids love that as well House, where do you stand on corned beef hash? The best corned beef hash I've ever had was at the Heritage Diner in Worcester, Massachusetts You introduced me to corned beef hash It wasn't a big thing on the diner menus down here when I was

going around as a high school student That's how you know you've been friends for a long time when somebody says, you introduced me to the corned beef hash. Like, I introduced him to his third girlfriend. It's beautiful. Go ahead, House. I'm sorry. I'm not going to talk about what girlfriends you may or may not have introduced me to,

but the corned beef hash was better than all of it. And I'm very happy to have corned beef hash in my life the last 25, 30 years. It's a hit or miss order, though. It can be. Corned beef hash can mostly be in the wrong hands when it's done correctly. Some people will go too far with corned beef hash and actually really try to make it with real corned beef fried and potatoes thrown in. And then it just ends up being two things that are kind of separately together right i like when it's a little bit old school it's a little bit i'm

not sure how long it's been there but it's fried okay so you want kind of the like the tv trade dinner version of it but well but the well done version of that interesting yeah it's it's something that i've got as i've gotten older it's tough to start the day with a big thing of corned beef hash. I can't say it's a big part of my life. Should I invest in it more? In an omelet, I think, is the most intriguing way to eat it. Interesting. Get a little cheese.

That's a great entryway. What cheese pairs best? I would say provolone. Something that's not overwhelming. I agree. A neutral cheese. A neutral cheese. Interesting.

Neutral cheese. House, what's the best thing you've eaten since I've seen you? Ooh, that is a great question. I ordered bucatini every single night. I was down in Orlando, Florida last week inside the confines of the mousetrap. I took my seven-year-old on a wild and wonderful Disneyland tour. We stayed at a great hotel,

which, honest to God, was the saving grace of the whole effing trip. I wanted to kill myself at the end of each day. And then this hotel, we'd return, and they'd go, ah, hey, man. It was a little bit of adult time. A martini and a bucatini. I ate the bucatini every single night.

It was prepared. It was a la amatriciana. I botched it. Everybody on the Twitters get at me. I don't care. A la amatriciana, which is with a pancetta, with an onion, a little red pepper flake. I would permit a small shave or two of the parmesan on top, but I mainly wanted it for that acrid,

spicy, salty mouthful, and the pasta was obviously cooked perfect al dente every single night. Wonderful, wonderful meal I had. Sounds delicious. Sounds amazing. John Vinnie's, excellent bucatini. House of Carbs, we had you, me,

House, me, And Craig Gaines The chief Read your copy chief The chief It's We haven't run it yet It's about sports bars And it's a podcast

Where we realize Craig Gaines Should be just called The chief He'll love it I like to call him dad Dad's also good Chief dad

I feel like he's The office dad So he just Especially when I'm with An intern Or a young person In the office And he walks in

I like to say Hey dad Really enthusiastically and embarrass him. So we have that. What else do we have coming up in the House of Carbs house? A whole slew of guests in the queue. I feel like I probably shouldn't start naming names. But we have a bunch of people that you've heard of before coming on House of Carbs to talk about their particular pursuits and interest and commitment to the

food game. So please check us out. Last thing, you have 30 seconds to give your review of season 7 of Game of Thrones to Mallory. Oh. Oh no. This is hard. Too much pressure. I just used 10 seconds.

I have to say it felt most, to me, forced. That's the word that I use. Yeah. I didn't like, I knew that they had to accomplish great big things, but in each episode, to accomplish all that they did should have been two hours to two and a half hours. I would have indulged a movie-length version of each one of those seven episodes

to walk me along. I just couldn't get over the effing Raven flying back with the instant news like it was a goddamn email. And I had a really hard time with the dude running from the White Walker to the big wall. You're the fastest. I mean, come on, son. Give me something that I can work with. Let me try and believe it a little bit.

They did a great job of that all the way up until this season, and they just felt like they crammed too much in. So I'm sorry. House? On a scale of 1 to 10, how satisfied were you with John and Danny's sex scene? It was a 3. Whoa! It was like a 2.5.

Not nearly enough Danny. Interesting. 2.5. 2.5? I think Benioff and Weiss. Not nearly enough Danny. Interesting. Two and a half. Two and a half? I think Benioff and Weiss, this is where they really slipped. First two years, they're like, we're owning the sex thing. We'll cross a couple lines. Like, just be on your toes.

And now it's become conventional. They're tiptoeing. They haven't really thrown the gauntlet down in a while. I feel compelled. They can't turn it into self-parody. And I understand that. But, I meanlet down in a while. I feel compelled. They can't turn it into self-parody, and I understand that. But, I mean, Dani set a bar. She did. She was an 11 out of 10, her and that Dothraki genius.

Unbelievable, those scenes. It was like Blake Griffin's rookie season. It was Blake Griffin's rookie season. It was Blake Griffin's rookie season. Just above the rim constantly. I'm equally fond of the John Egret cave scene from season three. I think of that the same way you guys think of Danny's scenes. Another terrific scene. Awesome scene.

A special one. They did go a little conventional, though. I feel compelled to note. Please. The voice of the people here that you just referred to a sex scene between an aunt and her nephew as conventional yeah but they didn't know yet they don't know they weren't sure we know the way that they were the way that they were splicing back and forth Between scenes of Danny And John together and the Rhaegar John dad reveal To really hammer home for you what was

Happening what was transpiring there And what the fallout is going to be for those Characters when they realize that Sure that's not like a clear shot of Tits but it's something Three years of Jamie Bang out Cersei That's supposed to be shocking to me?

You got a Cersei-Jamie blowjob this season. I know, I'm just saying, but that's brother-sister action. What with the aunt-nephew? What do I care about that? Yeah, that was brother-sister doggy style in the pilot episode. It was a really high bar to set. It was the target. It was the target.

And Tyrion just doesn't like hookers and brothels anymore? He's just out on the hookers? If we had two and a half hours Tyrion could have got his Where's his brothel? Does he have a brothel in Dany's place? This is actually like a big It's not really right to call it a theory

But a big area of discussion on the internet Among the Thrones heads is Is tyrian now constantly making bad decisions because he isn't having sex anymore oh like back in the blackwater days yeah he had shit maybe that could explain donald trump too okay uh thanks so much to the fly Delta app the Fly Delta app will make your travel experience informed, connected and seamless from before your trip through the journey to the tail end it's with you every step of the way

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Don't forget to read my Friday column has returned on TheRinger.com. Don't forget to go back on the Binge Mode Game of Thrones feed. 67 episodes. Check it out. Maybe 100 hours. Oh, God. Of podcasting at that point. A lot of love there.

There's been some meetings about what the next Binge Mode podcast is going to be. I think we're circling something. I can't wait to hear the reveal. We're circling something. We need Mallory once she finishes her 30-day stint at the Malibu rehab place. Yeah. She's going to be there at Celebrity Rehab. I'm ready.

She's going to go through. And then when we see the light flickering back in her eyes, we're going to unleash her on binge mode again. I miss Jason. I miss binge mode every second of every day. I'm ready. Put me in, coach. Enjoy the weekend, everybody. Stay safe, everybody in Florida.

Thanks, house. Thanks, Mallory. And we'll be back on Monday for the BS podcast I don't have On the wayside On the first side of the river I said I don't have to ever