The Bill Simmons Podcast - Game 7 Fever in OKC, NBA Lottery Reform, and a Mega-Mailbag With Rob Mahoney, David Jacoby, and Joe House

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Join The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Rob Mahoney LIVE on Netflix to react to the Spurs forcing a Game 7 against the Thunder (1:17). Then, David Jacoby and Joe House hop on to react to the NBA lottery reform plan, talk about the losers of the Cavs' drubbing, and answer some mailbag questions (39:15). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Rob Mahoney, David Jacoby, and Joe House Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers Brought to you by PayPal. Learn more at paypal.com/paymonthly The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is Bill Simmons podcast. We are live on Netflix. Rob Mahoney is here. We're coming right after a game that I'm frankly shocked by the result. I'm not shocked St. Antonio 1, Rob. Yeah. I'm shocked that it was a blowout, especially at halftime, it felt like they hung around, hung around, hung around, hung around,

and we were going to have this awesome second half. But my first question to you, so game one of this series, game one of Nick's Cavs, which was that awesome Brunson game, the comeback. And it was just basketball bliss for 24 straight hours. We haven't had a good basketball game since. Cousin Sal's, plus, cousin Sal is that nine and a half point thing that he does where it's nine and a half point favorite? We've had seven straight nine and a half point favorites cover.

And we just had bad basketball. So what happened? Did we just, we paid all the taxes for those two games and that's it? I think some of the games in this series have been better than the final score. We're at least getting like three really high, like well-played quarters often from these teams. There's just one critical stretch in which one or the other pulls away. But yeah, it does feel like we sold our souls or something. Like we paid a heavy cost.

We got the great weekend of historic basketball. and now we just all have to deal with the consequences. I thought today would be the makeup for all the crappy games we've been watching. But you're right. This is like good bad basketball because there's so much chess going on. To watch San Antonio do this twice to OKC in three games, basically. I thought OKC was going to win tonight. But I thought it was more because of the Castle Fox thing,

which I just couldn't get that out of my head how I didn't think Foxx, looked right the last couple of games. Has not. And he looked bad tonight. And I didn't think Harper looked good either. And then Harper was awesome today. And you think like Wembe had that just, you know, lights out classic Wembe first half.

But Harper was the other piece of it. And they were still up seven. And if you had told me they're going to get these two first halves from these two guys, I would have thought they were up 20. Didn't matter. They ended up blowing them out in the second half. So what happened? What did you think the number one thing was?

Yeah, that's the thing. I think based on the first half, it felt like the spills, Spurs were winning, like technically winning, but the Thunder were hanging around, as you mentioned, and they were just like gutting out enough possessions to make you think, okay, if there's any turn in this game, if there's any change in the momentum,

if OKC comes out in the second half, and their offense looks any cleaner, then this thing could really break their way. It turned out the opposite was the case, which is the Spurs completely tightened the screws and just suffocated all life out of the Thunder offense. And it's been one of these things that's been flying a little under the radar in these playoffs,

that the Spurs have just been the single most dominant third quarter team in the entire postseason. And it's a weird thing to think about a young group. We're used to thinking about the juggernaut warriors in that capacity maybe. But I think it's an incredible credit to Mitch Johnson. The Spurs are so young and a bunch of 20-year-olds in like a tough stretch are not going to be able to figure out the tactical adjustments of like exactly how they need to pivot strategically. But you take a break. You let them reset. You give them a couple of talking points and a little bit of film.

and they come out and they just throw an absolute haymaker against the defending champions it was amazing to watch in the third. And you know, the other thing, what you just said about San Antonio was true for OKC at the end of these halves. And you could feel coming in the end of this second quarter, they're just like closers in the last three, four minutes

and it's like, oh, they're up four, now they're up 18, what just happened? Or they're down 12, now they're down two, what just happened? And San Antonio kind of rode that off too. I think OKC got it to within maybe three, but then it ended seven at a half time, which I thought was big.

So in the third quarter, 20 to nothing San Antonio run. OKC had a seven-minute drought. Yeah. Where they went 0 for 14 at one point. There was one point where they were six for 26 from three. I mean, one thing we learned from them last year, if they're not making threes at all,

no. Anyone can beat them, especially if you're home. And this seesaw has been crazy. over the last four games. 45%, 18%, 44%, 24%, like, that is a wild level of like erratic offense when Shea has also just been like really inefficient

from the field. And like they are reliant on at least one of those things breaking for them to win. So if I'm a fan base here in this game, and there's two choices, what am I most nervous about on each side heading into game seven after watching these first six?

Because for me, it would be for OKC, I didn't, J-dub didn't exactly instill a ton of confidence in there. AJ Mitchell's just gone. I don't think we're seeing him again. And that second creator thing, which didn't bother them in game five, but did bother them in this game. But the three-point shooting would be the thing that made me nervous. For San Antonio, if I'm a fan of them, it's Fox. And then it's just like, which Wembe am I getting? because Wembe was the big winner tonight.

He had the makeup for the game five, which I still don't know what he was doing in game five. He did the Vandam hard foul demand at the end of game five. Put out the hit. Turned into Martin Cove and Karate a kid. And then didn't talk to the media. God forbid you do that. We need your boring quotes.

But basically it was awesome in this game. The Spurs are 3 and 0. and he's awesome in this series? Is it just that simple for the Spurs? Is that what I would not be nervous about him? I'm a Spurs fan. This guy is showing up for Game 7. He's the next one.

I think what you would be nervous about is he was awesome in this game, but Oklahoma City took away the vast majority of anything going to the basket. They blew up a lot of the lobs going to Wemby, any straight line hits in transition. They were able to take away. He put up a ton of points because he made a ton of jumpers. And granted, I would never want to be on the other side of that bet. Are you willing to bet your season and your title defense on the idea that he won't do that again?

Wouldn't be me. But if you're going to play like a gamble here of something, you have to give up something to Victor Webbenyama and late in a series, if you're the Spurs, you just have to get a little used to settling for whatever is left, right? The other team has schemed away the three best things you have going on every possession. If what's left is Victor Webbenyama shooting over the top of literally anyone in front of him, both from three, and then we saw him in this game kind of get. to some of those, like, mid-range into the elbow,

into like little turnarounds in the paint. If that stuff is going to be available to him, I think you're fine with it, but it's not the same as, you know, the 97% accuracy of a Victor Webbenyama dunk. Right, right. Well, they were doing, one thing I noticed, they were trying to set these little sneaky picks for him

that would then send him flying down, not for a lob, but just to get near the foul line. So I don't know, that was the one experimentation thing that seemed like that it worked a few times. I just thought it was such a weird OKC performance. She didn't get involved at all in the first quarter. They missed a ton of threes. There were a lot of, like, Lou Dort threes.

I think he took five in the first half, and they're playing all those hockey lineups, and it felt like he never found a lineup that had the right rhythm. And I don't, what is your OKC lineup that you like the most? Obviously, as Caruso and SGA out there, do you like when they go two bigs? Like, what's your favorite of all the options? I do think it has both bigs and it has Caruso and Shea.

I think at this point it is Jared McCain. Like, I think J.W. is so limited. You know, he is trying to gut out these, like, quick bursts of playing time that they're giving him. But when he tried to do something with the ball, it just kind of went nowhere. I don't expect much more than him being a decoy. We've seen like Isaiah Joe get played out of the rotation. Actually, I think Casein Wallace is a decent option if that's that spot, too. He had like a really ballsy game during the really difficult parts of it in particular.

And when you're thinking about a game seven, that's the criteria, right? It's like, who is up for making the absolutely brutal, relentless play that's not going to look pretty, that's not going to pan out? That's not like the thing you would script up, but ultimately who can come away with those balls. And I'm going to change it and go from McCain to Casein Wallace on that reason alone. I think I want one more dog in that fight if I'm the Thunder. What's the ideal Thunder final score of a game seven? Is it in the one-tens? is it like a 92 to 85?

Because if you're going for like your all defense kind of side, then you're going to see more of Case and Wallace. I thought he was really good tonight. I mean, he had two plays in a row where he just took the ball from the spurs. He had three threes. I would have wanted a little more from him. But I wonder like, do you just do threes, rebounds, bother Wembe, and then just hope SGA gets 30 and you can kind of eke out one of those 99 and 92 type games?

I think like game seven's almost always. turn out that way regardless of what you want. But all three Thunder wins have been in the 120s, right? And some of their losses have been among the lowest scoring offensive output games of this entire era in terms of what they're scoring. So it really is a feast or famine thing. And I think a lot of that is Shea, who, I mean, he looks so uncomfortable in this game. I can't remember the last time we saw him settle for this many shots.

And there's just like a layered, like a layered defensive impact where the spurs are so good at denying him the ball. And you saw it with Castle, but you also see it like Devin Vassell doing it, you know, Shane Penny doing it. Basically anyone who's crossmatched or switched is taking, like shaving time off the clock and taking some life out of the thunder offense right off the bat. Then when Shea does get the ball, he has to chart where Wimby is at all times. He has to be extra careful. And then he ended up with so many like late clock bombs in his hand that he just had to hoist up.

It's, it really is an uncanny thing, seeing a guy who's so used to playing at his own pace all the time, playing basically this entire game on somebody else's terms. I have no feel for the series at all. I think I've picked five of the six games wrong. And every time I think I have a feel for it, it zags the other way. And this one is like basically, you just have to guess if Wembe's going to have an awesome game or not.

And if he has an awesome game, it just seems like San Antonio is a better team with the OKC injuries. So he's one winner tonight. Devin Vassell? fucking love death of the cell. Just for this whole playoffs, you want to pigeonhole him as a 3-and-D guy,

but I almost feel like he's a 3-and-D plus. Oh, yeah. Like he's a level over a role player, but he's not an all-star, but he's in that nice, nice sound like that. One of the things I love, he should have gotten a tech.

It's been a tech-all playoffs. They didn't call it tonight, but when he blocked Chet, he shoved them, and then talked shit to him, which has been a technical foul this entire year. for 20 years.

Literally the first time this year, they didn't call it. Because I think the refs were after the Tony Brothers massacre that happened in game five, which I was being really, I had legs on after game five. I was really careful talking about how I felt about the refs because I just thought it was an apocalypse. But after that, it really felt like the refs were like, hey, we want to let the players decide this one. We don't, we're not here. Just do your thing. But that was a classic Vassel play where it.

he brings a lot of fuck you to their team. I really trust him. I trust him as a number four guy. I don't know how many movement shooters you could say that about, right? These skinny,

like, life-lanky guys who are running around ball screens, catching on curls and shooting. He's like, how many six-five shooters legitimately play bigger than they do all the time

in the way that Veselda does? He guarded Chet tonight. He guarded Chet. And that's not the first, like, fuck you block he's had on Chet in this series. He comes up with huge defensive plays. He comes in with

big time, like, contested defensive rebounds. He's, like, the antithesis of the archetype that frustrates me the most. Like, the empty stats, like, I put up 18 on jump shots, but I give you literally nothing else. Like, those are among the most frustrating players for me to watch. Devin Vassell will give you, maybe not that kind of scoring output every night, but he does so many other little things all the time that feel instrumental to a series like this one. Yeah, I always call it, like, I don't know, he had 13, 14, and it was a loud 13, right? His points, his performances are loud. I think Castle's like that too.

Castle's one of those guys. You look as like, does he have like 30 points? And it's like, now he's 16. But he's all over the place. He had nine assists, I think, today too. I think with Fasel, he's been thrown in these trades for two years, right? It's like, oh, Trey Murphy.

Well, if they went after Yon, S, we'll put him, he's just always the constant because he's making like $25 million a year. He's good, you can always feel like you do better. I think he's kind of the perfect fourth guy for them. Really the issue, if you're thinking about upgrades all summer with no matter what happens with them in game seven and even in the finals, Fox is going to be the big question.

If they lose this Oklahoma series, he's going to be the one everyone points to and how hurt was he, was he healthy? Oh, he's clearly hurt. He can't really move very well at all. It seems like he has no lift. And the Thunder are basically betting. Like, we don't have to take him off the ball very seriously. Like, we don't really have to respect him in the corner.

We don't have to rotate out to him super hard because we don't think he can beat the closeout. If we just put a Lou Dort in front of him, we'll mostly be fine. And they've been pretty much right about that part of things. Yeah, he doesn't have that little drive into the lane, that little spin move backwards for that 13-footer. The little 13-foot turnaround just doesn't have the lift anymore. Another winner for the, oh, go ahead. I was going to say Harper is a huge. part of that too. To the extent that Deeran Fox feels expendable, which is a crazy thing to say about

a player as good as Deerrin Fox, I think some of it comes with the fact that Dylan Harper is already so good, so quickly. And he's going to have massive expectations on him at all times, I think, because he's one of these guys who you see him just breaking down the best perimeter defenders in the sport, one after another. And if you can do that, there's always going to be that tension of like, why can't you do more? Especially coming off of a game like Game 5 where he was invisible. You would not recognize his presence in that game. You would have to double check the box score to make sure he even played it. And then he comes out in a game like this,

and he's just in front of everybody turning the corner all the time, looking super aggressive. And I think he can kind of turn that up whenever he wants to. That's the most terrifying thing about him at this stage. And seems healthy finally. Yep. I don't, I didn't feel like he looked like him in two, three, four, and five. He was awesome in game one.

He was awesome in this game. Took the spotlight off of Fox who stunk. Another winner tonight. Garbage time. San Antonio put out the triple towers. Olinic, Biombo Plumley. It was the first time we'd seen that.

I didn't even know they would do that. It was almost like in hockey when it's like a six two playoff game. And they put out the fourth line with like all the guys can fight. And they're just kind of skating around in case anything happens for a couple of minutes. That was the vibe I was getting. Nothing happened. It's a different kind of high drama. But we all escaped unscathed somehow.

Were you surprised how they use Biombo as like a stretch, stretch seven? I don't even know if he's a stretch five. He's just 25 feet from the basket for no reason. Given the Bismack Bianbo's in the NBA in 2026, nothing else can surprise me. It's amazing. Another big winner, NBC, they get a Saturday night game seven. I actually thought their crew, which I think has been pretty up and down because the two Reggie's Reggie and Jamal Crawford feeling it out. but I thought they did a good job tonight.

Jamal Crawford, he had a couple great points tonight. Like, when he, like, J-Dub had a turnover, like where he fumbled the ball to bounce. I have liked this one, too. Yeah, and Crawford said, yeah, that's what happens when you're rusty.

The hardest thing to come back is your ball handling. I'm like, oh, okay, nugget. I'll take it. It's an incredibly astute point. And we should also say exactly the thing that Jamal Crawford, one of the great ball handlers in history would say. It's like, yes, your thing would be the thing to go. But I do think he's right.

Like it is where you feel clumsiest coming back or where you see a player like J. Dub just looking a little out of sorts, a little out of rhythm. Like how can you ask a guy to jump into a series this competitive? And this brutal. Like this was an incredibly physical game. Bodies were hitting the floor all over the place, not in the Zapruder level analysis of flopping kind of way,

but in the like people are getting decked. No, this is a rugby game. Absolute rugby game. A skirmish and a scrum to get every loose ball. And you're just throwing J. Dub out there being like, I guess see what you. what you can do. It's a lot to ask of him. That was another reason in the second quarter why I thought OKC was going to come back.

Because once the reps were allowing three bodies on the ground for half the plays, is that what OKC wants? They have Dort and Caruso at Hartenstein and Jay Will. Like that sounds great for them. And they have SGA who's good at navigate in that stuff. But it turned out to be way better for San Antonio. Yeah. I think weirdly, AJ Mitchell is a winner.

I thought they really missed his ad lib offense second ball handler take the pressure off off shake because otherwise you're just looking at Jared McCain who yeah you know who has been

I would say considering for what they gave up on him like a revelation in these playoffs but this was a lot doing this in San Antonio against a crazy crowd they really needed him to be awesome in this game and you know he's a second year guy I really do respect with McCain though I mean he's a crucial ball

handler for them right now, as you mentioned. And he will actually go at Wembe in a way that other guys won't. And he'll just see kind of like, if I bump him just enough, can I get a layup up? Can I get something up on the rim so, you know, Cheddar Hardinstein can clean it up. He's aggressive in ways they need him to be aggressive. He's just not quite up to the level of doing that as a driver right now. He's clearly a flamethrower shooter. And we've seen the like the thunder tap into that when they really needed. But they need the ball handling right now more than they need the shooting. All right. So when we think about game seven, which is two days from now.

We've gone every other day, and both teams are a little banged up. We've seen the Wemby, you kind of know in the first quarter with him, if he has it or not, from a, I'm all over the place, I have the eye of the tiger,

or, wow, Wembe looks tired, and it's just one of those two worlds. This is a game seven. It's hard to say who has the most at stake in this game, because it's a game seven to get to the final, so technically everybody has something at stake. but when be knocking out

okay C be down 3-2 knocking out the back-to-back champs a team that won what did they win like 132 games and two seasons

and him basically if they're gonna win he's gonna be the best part in that game yeah and at age 22 I had the four of the seven best games in the series

and we won four games to three and now here we come New York next you are now like I feel like he has the most at stake even though if it doesn't

happen this year we'll just like it'll be fine. It'll happen for him next year. Who do you think has the most at stake? Yeah, I mean, Wimby is the most to gain, probably, for that reason. That's what it is. Most to gain. But not a lot to lose, because you're right. I think right or wrong, we will expect that he has a lot of time ahead of him to be in series

in competitive situations like this one. The most at stake. I mean, the Thunder are in such an odd place overall just in terms of their reputation, like their place in the basketball consciousness. It's like they're defending champions and they get a lot of respect based on that. but clearly they're not the most liked team in recent basketball history, and I wonder if they lose a series like this one, and let's say next season is also a challenging one for whatever reason,

you can see their story taking a really sharp turn. I don't think that's what's going to happen. I kind of do expect that OKC will win game seven. I don't know that we're really in a position to predict anything at this point, given the way this series has gone. But within that, the idea of Shay coming out of the series shooting like 37% from the field in a round that even though the thunder are injured, they lose. I could see there being a lot of questions and a lot of interrogation about just like

them and the construction of their team and what they should be moving forward. And there's some, do we have the right team to battle Wembe? We just lost to them and that the spurs aren't even really the spurs yet. We'd open a lot of questions. Definitely a lot more like, oh man, we're already searching for answers here. We just won a cajillion games. We won the title last year. Now we have to question ourselves.

I think from San Antonio's side, I'm trying to think like ranking dudes who would have to come through because game sevens, they're slower, they're uglier, the more on the rock fight side. What we have seen though in recent years is road teams being able to go on the road and winning game sevens,

which in the old days, you just won game sevens at home. That's just how it went. And then that started a shift. And now every once in a while, we seem to have these Philly at Boston, Dallas at Phoenix. We have these ones where they're not even just winning on the road.

They're killing teams on the road. They're just eradicating them. With that said, I do feel like the home court has mattered unusually in this series because it ramps up the defense on both sides. The three-point shooters are going to be a little more comfortable at home. San Antonio, for the guys that have to come through, one of Vassel and Champany. Yes. I need a four or five, three game from one of them.

I need Harper to play like he did today, period. I need Fox not to suck like he did. I don't need him to be good, but you can't suck. You can't go like one for 10. And I need Wembe to be closer to where he was in the three wins than the three losses. What else needs to happen for them? I think they probably need another stretch like they had tonight where they look really good in the minutes without Webminiam on the floor. This was one of the first times where that really broke for them in the series.

They looked confident. They were hitting shots. The ball boom was really good. the energy felt right. And that's an area where, like, Kelden Johnson has become a really important player for them in the series from an energy standpoint. And as Fox has kind of faded into the background,

and when Harper was hurt, Kelden was one of the few guys who was consistently driving for them. So I would say he's pretty important for them, too, and sort of counterbalancing the upswing of OKC's role players at home. Well, we have Thunder by 3.5 on Fandle is our game 7 line. Yeah. Today's game 7 line, or game 6 line, was spurs by three and a half.

And I think the last game was thunder by three and a half. So it's just basically whoever's home is, that must be the established home court advantage. From a referee standpoint, so if they're not calling stuff like they did

today, usually I would think that helps OKC, but today it really helps San Antonio. Yeah. It feels like the kind of game when there's a million fouls is always better for OKC. we'll see who we'll get. Today we had Zach Zaraba. I forget who else,

but I'm sure we'll get. James Capers is probably the best ref they have, maybe Mark Davis, but hopefully it's not another Tony Brothers 80 foul situation. It would be my one guess. We simply can't.

But can Dorton Caruso unleash the, you know, the Bruse Brothers routine? Are they going to be allowed to do it? Are they going to ramp up their stuff on Fox and Harper? And does Wemby have it in him this early? Yeah. Because if he does, we're going to have four days to talk about a Spurs-Nix finals,

and it's just going to be a Wembe Fest. You're going to have the new generational superstar here, and then you're going to have the most famous team we have, other than the Celtics and the Lakers, trying to win their first title in 53 years. And it's going to be about as good from a hype finals as we're going to have. Well, it's already been a Wembe Fest.

I mean, have you been listening to this podcast? Have you listened to Group chat? Like, it's all we can all talk about because we're, I mean, games like this or why, you know? Yeah. It was a totally different kind of dominance than I think a lot of people were calling for. There was a lot of like, how do you get Wemby closer to the basket? How do you get him attacking more? Turns out he can just beat you this way too on some nights.

And if he's going to be hitting stepbacks against Isaiah Harderstein, that might just be it. Like, that just might be your season right there. I really can't wait for this. I do think as far as the OKC balance of all that physicality and what the refereeing looks like, even if they're giving a lot of leeway on that stuff, I think Lou Dorges has to play less. The self-destructive possessions that we've been talking about with this game,

there were like maybe five to seven of those in the first half alone between the hijacking possessions from three, looking off of swing passes that he should have made and taking his own. He flopped really badly on defense, like trying to sell a moving screen that then less. led to a wide open three. There were just so many possessions like that where I think in a game seven,

you can't leave anything to chance. It needs to be like a Caruso playing 36 minutes and a Lute Dort playing 10 to 15 minutes. Like even this felt like too much. Two for 11, one from nine for three in 22 minutes. Brunuched. Even if you look at all his games in May,

he's only scored 10 points once. 6, 3, 10, 6,000, 6, 6,000, 6, 5, 8, 0, 27. in five. I test-wise doesn't look at like the same guy from last year. He's a little bit older. And he's like a running back or a tight end who has a lot of miles on him. And he has a team option on him next year that I'm sure is weighing over his head too. Like, you know, he's playing for his next contract.

And he just has looked out of sorts this whole time. I thought, I've said this before. I thought he was the reason. Him and Caruso were the reasons they won that game for in Indiana, which I think if they lose that game, I don't think they win the series, no matter. I don't think we get to against 70s, however. And in George's defense, too, like they really didn't need his scoring until this point, right?

In the first two rounds, like the Thunder were doing just fine. Like going basket for basket. Shea was scoring at a much higher level. Chet was a more kind of like versatile, unlocked offensive weapon. Although he's kind of tilted up as the series has gone on, I think with the offensive rebounding in particular. But they're just in these games where everything goes to shit for them,

they are so desperate for offense. And Lou Dort is, he is contributing to the, strangulation that's happening there. Yeah, I don't love plus minus, but even in the game the other night, 18 minutes minus four in a game that they won by 13. Yeah. And then what was he in this last one? Yeah, minus 16 and 17 minutes. I'm with you. I wonder like this is one of the thing, I mean, I love so many things about a game seven. You're just making different decisions than you're doing all year. Yeah. It's like you're not there to, you don't care if feelings are hurt in a game seven. It's like,

Hey, Lou Dort, you're going to play eight minutes today. And that's just how it's going to go. Hey, Caruso, you may play 32. We'll see what Wembe can pull out of him from a minute standpoint. I don't really understand his how he's tired one day and then not tired the next. But when I saw him dressed, what was he dressed like a monk today? Yeah. What was that outfit?

I think it was, no. Throwback to where did he go to talk to the monks? Tibet? Shout out to everyone from Tibet with that outfit. it was really something. All right, so your prediction or you don't want to predict? I think OKC will win. I don't feel great about it.

Clearly, the line between these two teams is very thin, but then varies wildly in terms of what the actual margin of victory is. I think for me, the shooting of the role players tilting back OKC's way, as it seems like it just will when they go back home and every other game. The nerves kind of playing into their favor, having been in games like this before, and specifically for Shea. When it comes down to who do you feel confident

will have the lift and the balance in their game in those moments, I do think you tilt a little toward the experience of someone like The Thunder in this case. And I do think that guys like Chet have made just enough of a change over the course of this series. He's been good defensively pretty much the whole way through,

but he's finding enough ways to score where I'm like, I can kind of see the whole picture of a Thunderwin coming together, even though based on tonight's game film you would never expect it. Who do you think the Knicks want to win? I think the Knicks want the most injured version of the Thunder

to win possible. Like a banged-up, worn and torn thunder. Yeah, I don't think, even with how they played in the regular season and in the cup with the Spurs and all that, both of the teams, the Knicks and the Spurs were in such different places then.

The idea of grappling with this version of Wembe is such a unique challenge and such a daunting one that I don't think anyone necessarily wants that. versus the Thunder are a great team, an incredibly formidable defense even still, but you see the state that J. Dub is in. You see that A.J. Mitchell isn't on the floor,

and you see kind of like what that does to their offense to lack any kind of supplementary options whatsoever. I think the Knicks would prefer that sort of matchup than trying to figure out the spurs. I'm leaning OKC as well. It would be unusual for a team this young to come back from 3-2 and winning games. seven against on the road against the defending champs.

But you just made the point. These aren't really the defending champs if J-dub is just going to basically not be playing. Yeah. I mean, at this point, like whatever he was doing tonight, I'd rather just not play him and ride with the guys I have. I wouldn't be surprised if game seven, he plays that like first three-minute blip and then you never see him again. You know, like they try it for a second just to see if there's any more like traction there. but if it looks like this, I don't think he can play much in that game.

Unbelievable stuff. Zach Lowe and I are going to be going live on Netflix after Game 7. So my Sunday night pod this weekend is going to be a Saturday night pod. We're just going to go for it. We'll see how it goes. Before you and I go, Rob Mahoney,

the lottery reform thing, House and Jacobi and I are about to talk about that after the break. And I'm going to give my thoughts on. but the lottery forum, they really went for it. They did a bunch of stuff. There was one piece that we didn't talk about in the next segment that it looks like the second round is going to reverse in order from...

I didn't even see this. Yeah. Now, it hasn't been confirmed in the reporting yet, but it was one of the things they voted on that basically if you have the 16th pick, you'll have the first pick in the second round. Spoiler alert, my thoughts were all this sounds great until we end up with the 1993 situation of the magic winning twice in a row.

Do you like this 3-21 thing? I like elements of it. I think there are parts of it that especially in the transition feel super clunky and maybe borderline unfair to some of the teams that are been operating under the assumption of the league as is as they

try to put their teams together. The Grizzlies in particular are in such they get such a raw deal because of the trade that they made with the jazz where they have the jazz's pick. I feel like most of the other widespread overhauls of a system like this in NBA history are usually stationed a couple years out for exactly this reason. It's like, okay, we got to let the pick protections expire.

We got to get through this cycle of transactions. And then the changes will start. I applaud like a more urgent dealing. But the tradeoff for that is like, I don't know how you could explain this to the Grizzlies. They're like, oh, I'm sorry. I know you thought you were getting what was going to be like a top five pick from the jazz potentially in the future. But you're just fucked.

well and then the other side of it is like your indiana you trade your first round or this year that you lose because of the protections and then you trade your 29 first as well and then all these rules come in and now that 29 first is a much better pick than it was i feel like the picks that really weren't like from the shittiest teams that were that next level of like playoff teams or french playoff teams Like if you have like Miami's first round pick. Yeah. Right. You have Golden State's first round pick or who knows,

even the having the Celtics pick in 2029, all of a sudden those picks gained value. Yes. And then the other piece of it where normally like the Celtics had those Nets picks a couple times. And there was one year when I think it was the, I can't remember which one of them, but Brooke Lopez was just on a heater.

And it was like, we're going to get the top three pick from the, Nets and then Brooke Lopez was just going nuts for like two straight months because the Nets had nothing to play for and they played into a little bit of a later position. Now it's like you could have a team's

pick. They could play into that four to 10 spot and now you have a better odds that to pick anyway. So I don't know. They really, really blew this up in ways that I don't even know what all the ramifications are going to be. I'm surprised like you that they didn't wait a year

and just say like maybe even with the top protection or whatever, you know, and the can't win two years in row. Why not start that in 2027? We've seen it, again, with almost every other giant rule change in the league. I mean, this is going to have, I would think, massive repercussions on the trade market in general for exactly what you outlined with the picks, right? Like any mid-level team is going to talk themselves into holding onto a pick because it could be immensely valuable under this new odd standard.

And so I'm cool with that as someone who like I like talking about the games more than the potential trades. but I hope the league is okay with the fact that so much of the interest in the NBA is driven by who is the player your team can get. And I just think we're going to see fewer traits as a result of this. It's going to really sap a lot of the energy

out of really the ability for these teams to deal with each other. If it's all just player for player and there's really not a lot of sweetening involved with the picks. All right, we're going to, I'm taking a break and then House and Jacob are coming on.

We're going to do a mailbag, but we talk about lottery reform at the top. More importantly for you, Not only can we hear you on group chat on the Ringer NBA show, but you're going live on Sunday for the season or series finale of Euphoria. We are not sure. Unclear. Season for now, series for now, we have no idea,

but you're going to be live on our Ringer TV YouTube channel. You and Joanna Robinson. Yes. Was it an hour and a half? How long do we think this show is going to be? I think it's confirmed. It's over 90 minutes. Oh, my God.

We're going to be going live at 830 Pacific. Come along. Maybe every character will be. dead. Maybe we'll be setting up like a weird backdoor pilot season four. I don't know what's going on with this show anymore, but I can't wait to find out. They can't torture Jacob Allorty anymore because he's been killed off, right? Can they torture

his corpse? Spoiler alert if you're not caught up on Euphoria. It's not going well for Jacob Allerty right now. Just kidding. Well, it's gone terribly. It's true. I don't think it could go worse. Correction. It's going very well for Jacob Allerty, who no longer has to be like doing acting in one room by himself on the show anymore. But for Nate

Jacobs, he is, he's having a rough go. I'm, you guys are bigger, you and Joanne are bigger fans of this season than I was. My daughter is laugh, half full on everything. So she's like, no, no, it's good, it's good. I don't think it's been good. And I think you can really feel them filming in different parts of, you know, you just, you know what I like on a TV show

when the best characters are all together for scenes. Imagine it. Yeah, a little radical. The other thing we're doing this weekend, because I'm on Saturday night with Zach, rewatchable is now moving to Sunday, and we did 2001. So that is coming as well. 2001, a Space Odyssey

will now be running Sunday night for watchables. Rob, thanks for staying up with me. Great to see. We're going to take a break. Come back with House of Jacoby. Thanks, Bill. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandul. Fandul giving you better payouts on same game parlays,

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available through PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457. Learn more at PayPal.com slash pay monthly. All right, we were recording this part of the podcast. It is before Game 6 of Spurs Thunder. So if there's an Artes-Melee situation or something crazy, we didn't know about it. The lottery reform came in today, guys.

The 3-21 map. method. There's going to be 37 balls total. The bottom three teams will get two instead of three. They're calling it the relegation zone. They can't fall lower than the 12th pick from what I can gather. And I don't know if I like this or not. I like it more than I did a month ago, but I still feel like House's Wizards, for instance, if you had tried the whole year, how many games would you have one house? If you'd really tried. 20-ish. I mean, with the original roster with C.J. McCollum,

because McCaff, they went on a stretch where they won five of seven games at the end of December into early January. Like, hey, CJ, great to see. Thank you for everything. They literally traded him after that stretch of success. But I have a more important question, which is to Jacoby, which is, you know, how many times he tried the 3-2-1 method with his wife? Has you been to the relegation zone?

The answer is yes. I've definitely been in the relegation zone. Well, here's the thing. You mentioned the McCollum trade. So one of the benefits of this, I guess, would be that we're going to see less deadline trades and giveaways and we're going to see less of just Anthony Davis getting traded for nothing or like what the Bulls did. If on the Bulls, like, do I trade Dissumu and do I trade Kobe White if it's not really

technically going to make me that much worse and I'm going to be in that 4 to 10 range, which is going to have the most ping pong balls anyway. Are we going to see guys get given away? Are we going to see conversely teams that are worried about being in the relegation zone, trying to trade for players that will help them? There's all of these ramifications to this that I'm trying to wrap my head around Jacob's. But the biggest thing, and we were all alive for this, was the 93 lottery. When they did 66 balls and they did, it was 11 teams in the lottery.

House remembers this. We were both out of college. and it basically was the most simple way you could do it. The worst team got 11 balls, second worst got 10, third worst got 9, and went all the way down to the best of the worst teams was Orlando who got one ball. They had a 1 in 66 chance,

and they got Chris Weber, who they then traded for Penny Hardaway and three first round picks, and everyone lost their fucking minds. Do you remember this? Because they had gotten Shaq the year before, then they got Weber, and everybody was like,

oh my God, how can this happen? and that led to 30 years of lottery reform, Jacoby. So why wouldn't that happen again with this new system? Well, a couple things. Number one, that's not the biggest thing. The biggest thing is that they're going to televise it. Like, we were talking about this last time I was on. Live in person.

Like you got to remember like this, you know, Jacoby the TV producer. We've got to put my producer hat on here. Like this is now a television event. Instead of like them doing it in some back room and then like a host reading it. That to me is the biggest thing. It'll be a really fun thing to watch. franchises change, like right there in the moment.

Instead of like, it is a little stale when like Erson Young has it in a briefcase or whatever and it's like in this secret room. I like the idea that it's going to happen live on television. It's going to be a television event. The second best thing about this. Well, hold on. We figured it's going to, we figured it's going to be 37 balls and just one pops out and that's it.

Like they're not going to do the complicated four balls thing. It'll just be one. Yeah. It'll be like, I imagine it'll be like watching like the loto on like the, the, the five o'clock news. when we were kids. They'll be like some hot girl just like the ball pop up. They'll have like a

wait a minute. Way easier to fix house. Well, here's the thing. Jacoby, the most recent draft was very dramatic. And I know that people knew the results. I didn't know the results. And it was it was live enough for me.

I mean, it was very, very, the last five picks as a fan of, of, you know, the wizard was, I was on the edge of my seat. I was barely breathing. That's fair.

But that's why we need the actual GMs out there, the people at the most at stake in real time. What was your second favorite thing, Jacobs? Easily. And my pod brother, Chris Vernon, it was not unanimous. The governors voted 29 approved and one did not. And the Memphis Grizzlies were like,

fuck this. I love it so much. And that all has to do with the Utah pick as we've discussed. But I just love the idea that grizzlies are just like, Somehow the Grizzies get screwed no matter what. Well, the thing is in a fantasy league, if you change the rules that's dramatically for the next year where people have future stuff, there would be a lot of arguments and angry emails going back and forth about, well, I have three first round picks in the minor league draft next year. Now you're changing rules. I mean, this is bullshit.

You're trying to screw me. But somehow that didn't happen in the NBA. They did add the top five restricted thing. They did add the you couldn't win the picks two years in row, the first pick. So I like that stuff, but I don't know. I feel like this could lead to some result that we're all completely horrified by, right? Like OKC having somebody's pick who's the 10th pick and then OKC ending up with the first pick or just some sort of thing where they're like, oh, this was the worst case there and it happened because that's what happened with the Chris Weber thing. I don't mind it though.

I don't mind the idea of a relegation zone and teams being humiliated, right? House's team should have been humiliated the last couple years, and it finally happened with Bam Outobias. They were, yeah, they weren't humiliated. Yeah, that's right. But that's all they're doing was responding as rational actors to a system that they didn't create, but they certainly leveraged, you know, the opportunity. So we'll see what set of opportunities.

Sounds like we all kind of like it. Well, it's an improvement. And also, like, all MBA changes, they're just, like, floating out ideas to see how the public reacts to it. Yeah. And this has got, like, they call, I read the thing as it's called, like a sunset provision. So it actually is only in place for until the 29 year. Yeah, three years.

If something goofy happens, they're sort of being like, we're testing this. It's a three-year test drive and we'll reevaluate in three years, which I kind of like too. The whole concept of watching your team suck ass for six months and then falling into the relegation zone is really rough. Like we really got to,

because there's going to be some fan bases. Like if that had happened to, the end of this year. They don't have Halber and they lose Turner. They have a bunch of injuries the first half of the year. And just by no fault of their own, they ended up bottom three and had two balls instead of three. That's rough. Well, they got

the functional equivalent of that. I mean, for all of that pain, they got Zubach. Oh, yeah. You're right. Pritchard's. They drafted Zubach. Pritchard's going to apologize again. I'll tell you this. I'll pass along some intel that's been floating around.

Ooh. Apparently the Kings love, A-cuff, which I don't think is a super secret there. It's seven. And the clippers have five and don't need A-cuff because they have a point guard already. And it would be really easy for them to flip picks and for them to end up with a little extra something, something from Sacramento, which I guess would be some sort of swap or future pick, whatever. They could turn that Zubach pick into the seventh pick, Indiana's 20-29 pick, and then something from Sacramento, the best team in the week to trade for, which would make it one of the better trades we've had, right?

Just for Zubots, who's like, I like Zubots. I voted for him 13 WM.A a year ago, but that's an incredible trade. I have to get off some stuff that I forgot to do on Tuesday. Biggest losers from the Knicks Cabs sweep in the east. I'm just going to read this to you in no particular order. Speaking of Sacramento. Did you see this? This was floating around a little bit about Sacramento.

the 2006 finals, if San Antonio makes it, it could be Mike Brown against Aaron Fox. 25, Halliburton was the best guy in a finals team. 24, Luca was the best guy in a finals team who they passed up for Marvin Bagley. And then 2023, Michael Malone was the coach of the team that won. House, do you have anyone from Sacramento that could throw the wizards into this for 27? I saw that. I really admired it. But, you know, it only parallels Washington, this Washington franchise.

I think the streak is now up to 18 straight finals, 19 straight finals, where a former wizard is going to participate in the finals. But the kings are the gift that keeps on giving. That's where our focus should be. It's appropriately there. And let's just let them keep doing what they're doing. It's very good for the basketball. It's very good for the narratives.

very good for our podcasts, like the over-under podcast at the beginning later October. It's the only things we got right. Zach Lowe was the most vicious I've ever seen Zach Lowe. He really loved it. Went dark. It was like watching like a TV drama when the cop goes dark

and starts doing weird shit. I feel like you guys should be in the relegation zone because of that Overunder's podcast. We probably should. I mean, I'd be fine with it. We only get to pick 25 of the teams. Chacobo's, we dealt with Sacramento. I think Vive's a nice guy. I've always, anytime I've run,

it's super nice guy. I'm not sure he should own an NBA team. I'm pretty sure at this point. But we dealt with him for that Grantland thing we did when they picked Stauskis, which was one of those mini documentaries that we had. I forgot what year was that, like 2011 or 12.

I was 13, yeah. Yeah, they were 13. They led us in their draft room. And it was clear nobody wanted to take Stauskis instead, except for Vivek, who overruled everyone. It's like Stauskis, Stouskis. And it became this great internet moment. And he's just been giving us comedy ever since.

As nothing was better than the maybe we should play four guys on defense thing. It's like, what? What? Forgot about that. It's like some things that shouldn't be said out loud. But they actually came to us for that. I know. We will give you full access to our draft room.

We're like, sure. And it's up being a pretty interesting. I respected it. All right. So Sacramento was a loser. Detroit's GM not doing anything at the trade deadline, which we all killed them on on every podcast. we have. Well, why not? But I really wonder if they watch that going, fuck, if we'd have one more

score. James Hardin, who I thought took a proper pounding from everybody the last couple weeks, but he's four straight trades now where the team that got him probably has real regrets after the trade. What is the equivalent of this house? Like, what food order is the, I regret it the next day food order, but it seemed like a great idea at 8.30 at night after three drinks. I'm going to say this with love in my heart. I'm going to say this respectfully. The answer for me personally is Kentucky fried chicken. For some reason, for some, it just decimates me. And I only order it under the circumstances you just described. If I'm having fried chicken and I'm sober, then I order Popeyes, because Popeyes is by far. And then if, you know, Popeyes isn't around, it's Bojangles.

I mean, I mean, in the South, I'm where I've accessed. But Kentucky Fried Chicken is everywhere. and it does have a tendency to be open until 2 in the morning in a lot of places. Jacobs, you agree with that, that James Hardin in the KFC order? Four straight teams down like, fuck. Did we ever James Hardin last night? Anything after 11 p.m. is the answer. That's the appropriate answer. That's true.

That's true. Those are now being called James Harding's. The other great James Hardin to think, 98 playoff wins now without a final appearance, which ties him for the all-time record with Carl Malone. They're now linked. Carl Malone and James Harden, most playoff wins without a finals appearance.

All right, so I'm making him a loser. I want to push back. Why is James Harden a loser as a result of, I mean, there are very specific things you can point to. Once again, several games where his turnover has exceeded. How about just not running back on fast breaks? Just terrible transition defense that's been the story of his career. That's right. That's right. It's been the story of his career. It's no longer a bug. It's a

feature. Plus, he's 36 years old. So my real quibble with Cleveland and Hardin, I thought that trade was successful. I think it made sense. They couldn't rely on Darius Garland anymore. They went on a run. They put themselves in the top four seeds of the east and they, you know, handle their business all the way up until they encountered team that's just better than that. them. And Hardin was important to them, especially in the first two series. They both those series went seven games. I'm not defending James Hardin, but what I'm saying is I don't think he's a loser based on what we just saw. He's 36 years old. The franchise is the loser, especially if they extend him. But James Hardin was just James Hardin to me. But that's the issue.

Jacob's, they clearly have a wink, wink with him. It's already come out. Yeah. So it's not just like, Oh, we've traded for James Hardin's expiring contract and we dump the garland thing and we'll be way under the tax next year because this money's coming up. He's going to get like a two or a three year for like $30 million a year. So they're actually stuck with him going forward knowing that him and Mitchell as a defensive back court isn't great. So I would say that's bad. Well, I also thought it was bad at the end of game one when Brunson just went after him. Possession after possession after possession. snatch his soul.

Yeah, that wasn't great. And then after the series, that's the whole stuff. I know. That is Akinson. I'm sure Atkinson's going to be on this list. But also after the series, when he says,

we are the better team. I was like, oh, I just saw four basketball contests between the two of you. And I didn't have the same impression, Mr. Hart. I was superb.

I loved him for doing that. He was wonderful. I thought I played great defense. I thought we were the better team. Magnificent. Standing ovation. Has some good zags today. Are you going to

Is he on Kenny Ackinson being one of the big losers in the round three? No, no. I mean, I don't think he'll ever live that down. I feel like that's going to come up for the rest of his coaching career. He cannot and he should not and he shouldn't be a head coach ever again. I mean, I'm still looking for those timeouts that he held on to in game one. I'm looking for him on eBay. He hasn't put him up yet.

But, you know, I wonder what price he could get for those. He feels like they were valuable to him in some form or fashion because they're still in his pocket. He can't use now because they're out not playing any more games. But no, that dude is an assistant coach. The combo of that, the James Harden having to bring him back, being way over the luxury tax again, and then having the Nick fans completely take over your arena for two straight games, which happened in two straight series, by the way. That was about as rough of a sweep as I can remember.

We've had bad sweeps. That was like, Jacobs, what was the worst sweep than that? It was like a soul snatching sweep, right? It had everything you would want because they looked so good at the beginning of game one. And I'm sitting there watching it. I'm like, the Knicks had too much time off. Like they're too rusty. This other team has been in battles for two seven game series.

They're a better team. They were so much better for that first half. So they had the gut wrenching loss in overtime. Then everything else was just completely outclassed for in game two and game three. Then you had the fan takeover. And then you have game four. where Mitchell comes out and he's giving it, he's giving it his best in the first half.

And the second half, they just didn't, they quit. They just gave up. And then you can hear the chance. It was just like, that's pretty bad. I mean, it's also bad that when they had to come out with like a headline that said, like, the calves are continuing with Kenny Atkinson. Yeah. And it was shocking.

I was like, oh, oh, whoa. I had to read it twice. I was like, oh, they made like an announcement that he's keeping his job. Well, how's the counter is they finished fourth in a 30-team list? league. Don't overreact. Well, counter to the counter. They were supposed to win 57 games. They were supposed to match the output of the previous year.

And they had to trade Darius Garland, you know, before the trade deadline to capture the winning percentage. And there is no explanation other than in and out. I mean, Mowgli was supposed to continue to take another step. I mean, here's the thing for me. It's a sour situation. You laid it out BS. Let me ask you guys this.

When, let's just look at the calendar, what date before or after August 1st is the first rumor that Donovan Mitchell would be interested in playing for a different basketball team? And is that as exciting for 12 other teams as it was like a year ago? Well, I had my next loser, Evan Mobley, who I think is now a legit threat to be the fall guy and get sent somewhere because they got to get into the attack somehow. And if they have the wink, wink with Hardin, then it's Jared Allen, it's Mobley or it's or it's Mitchell. Jocobes, do you think could you see yourself at Barclays next year, eating a $15 finis pizza and watching Mobley run high screens with Ben Serraff? Is that in play? That's not so exciting. That's not getting it.

What if he was running it with Nolan Traori? That's not doing it for me either. No? You're not. Not taking their train down there? I do kind of like Yeager Joman. I can't afford to go to Nix games, so Nets games are in play. I can, you know what?

I can see both arguments, right? This was the first series with this core where they were like really healthy. Every other year there was like, yeah, but a Garland was out. And I also kind of feel like Mitchell was compromised against the Nix, but I don't think that was going to make such a big difference. I could see them saying, let's make some tweaks and not make. a huge move this off season. But I could also see them saying,

we've had this core. It has been mildly successful and very successful in the regular season, but not successful in the postseason. Something needs to change. I can see both sides of this decision. Who says no to Mowgli for the sixth pick? Who has the six pick?

Brooklyn. No. Yeah. Yeah, Cavs say no. You save 50 million bucks. You bring in a guy making about nine. That's a different incentive. You save by almost.

Almost $40 million and then all the luxury tax stuff too. The reason why it's reasonable is because if that team looks in the mirror and, you know, drink some actual sort of honest serum, some truth serum, are they better than the Celtics next year? Do they think they are? That's why I'd be blowing it up. Do they think that they're better? I would trade Mitchell if I were them, but I just think they have to do something. I think they had their window and this is it.

Like the East is going to be better next year. I don't see how they're better next year. pardon a year older. So another loser, LeBron James, I feel like Cleveland was a like a fifth ring title chase team. I'll go there.

You guys are close. I'll take the minimum. Everyone loves when somebody takes the minimum. When Carl Malone did that for the 0304 Lakers, it was like, oh my God, this guy just wants to win, man. He'll do anything. I don't think LeBron's fixing anything if he goes there.

They weren't a LeBron James away from, beating the Knicks and then going into the next round against San Antonio O KC and winning and I just think that options out.

I don't see it. You agree Jocobes? I'm fascinated by what LeBron does this offseason because I can't see anything that works. Like literally,

of all the teams, like none of it really makes sense. And the problem is he is a valuable player so he should be compensated for his production. What is the real There's no real spot for him.

It's not a max price, but is it like 25 million year house? What is it? 32 for 50? It's whatever the team he decides he wants to spend next year with can afford and fit and have one more great player. I still love. I mean, honestly, I think LeBron is a winner by virtue of what happened with Cleveland. Cleveland is the loser, not LeBron. LeBron wins.

LeBin does that go there. And he doesn't have to be coached by Kenny Atkinson. What the, I mean, what are we talking about? Right. The two options to be that are viable. A number one, the one I root for the most, is the one that you threw out there, which is Kevin Durant and LeBron going to Golden State.

Oh, Durant, too? Can we put Davis in the Durant spot? I have Davis in there now. You have Davis going to Golden State? Yeah. So it's AD, LeBron. The Wiz get Butler and Golden State's 27 first. You're doing that.

Done. Yeah, you're locking that thing. Done. Take that. And then they figure out how to get LeBron with the mid-level. They bring Davis. They still have the 11th pick. They'll get a good player because this draft's really good.

And we get the expendables. I had a fake sign and trade. I don't know if this is possible with the Hardin. Who knows what the Hardin extension is. But could you do a three-way where Durant goes to the Lakers, LeBron goes to the Cavs, and Hardin goes back to Houston? And all the money just kind of works. And it's just kind of, it's just,

Durant's playing with Luca and Reeves. LeBron goes back to Cleveland but is able to make like 35, 40 million a year and then Hardin just goes to Houston and kind of gives them something they need, which is a guy who could create offense. House likes that one. It's kind of funny. It's kind of funky. It's a merry-go round of old guys.

The problem is I think LeBron and JJ, the only other, like there's only a handful of coaches I can see LeBron tying his wagon too. Yeah, but you can't. They're not paying him more than. I don't think 15 million a year. That's crazy. They got to pay Reeves like 40. You still want to make the team better.

You have a window with Luca now where you have to improve it. I just don't see them doing it. I think another loser is the Celtics who won a title in 2024 with a 27-year-old star and a 26-year-old star. And now have twice, two years in a row lost their team you'd most want to be in the East title. They lose it last year to Indiana. that's like, I'd rather be Indiana going forward with the Tatum injury. And then this year, you'd be like, oh, I'd rather be the Knicks. They're going to have, like, clearly a three-year run.

And the Celtics now have to deal with this juggernaut next team, Miami probably getting Janus, Detroit probably getting somebody else, and maybe they missed their window. It's depressing. I don't need you guys to talk about the Celtics. I want to mention that. No, Bill, you've not mentioned the Twitch streaming. I mean, we have to. I've never seen someone

sort of at alone in their house talking to their computer jeopardized their future with their franchise I've never seen anything like this and like fighting with Stephen A like what I don't understand what's happening he's like proposing like a neutral site Stephen A debate

what is happening? By the way I'd be excited for that. Yeah I was thinking if there was if there was a ringer staffer who started to do the Jalen Brown Twitch thing every night and was just kind of dancing with the line night after night. We probably would have had a phone call at this point. Like, hey, just check it in.

Yeah, you know, I don't know if this is a great idea. Another loser, Masayi Harry, who can we talk about, he gave up Siakka, Manan and Obie, who are two key pieces of the last two Eastern finals teams that we have, and he got quickly R.J. Barrett and two firsts in the 20s. See the new Joe Dumas house? Hey, well, he lost his job. He got fired for it. But he got fired for it. But he got fired for it. They win the title because of the Kauai trade and then Dumaar's style, everything he does after that is kind of shaky. I feel like it was fair for us, you know, the number of years leading up to this most recently completed season to be extremely critical of Toronto. And the moves we were making, we were befuddled by them, the money they were spending on players. I mean, it's still, you know, Isaiah quickly is this.

Isaiah. Emmanuel. I know. is now like the poster child for how you don't do stuff in this, this. Yeah. You don't want $30 million six men. You don't want $30 million centers. Another loser is Adam Silver because the James Doan finals feud is here.

This is going to be so fascinating to see how this works out. I don't think there's a lot of love lost. And I think usually when you have the finals in a location, the owners are usually helpful with the league. Not sure that's happening this time. I have two more. Vivek, Prokerov, Robert Sarver, and Glenn Taylor. Have I now passed James Dolan in the worst owners rankings in the 21st century.

I think Dolan's out of the Mount Rushmore now. I mean, he handed over this team. They made Eastern Finals last year. They made the finals this year. He's out. And I think it's Vivek, Prok, Prok, Sarver, Glenn Taylor. Is that sound like the right list, Jacob? Anybody else you'd throw in there?

Off top of your head? You pretty good there. Procroft was a bit. amazing. He doesn't get enough credit. Oh, no. Yeah, he was fantastic. Yeah, we're going to spend money. We're spending more money than any team ever than a year later. I don't want to spend money anymore. He said he would get married. He said he would get married if they didn't win the championship. Yeah. It's like, what? I think actually Glenn Taylor might have been the worst one though because he even sold this team for way less than what it was worth. Like, he was just terrible owner. He even fucked up the sale of his own franchise. And then tried to do a lawsuit over it.

tried to sue the guys that bought it. A dead loser. I'm wondering, should Prokeroff and Josai be lumped together? Because Josai basically tried to run back the Prokeroff playbook with Hardin, Kurt Karee. Josai just seems like he's loyal to a front office that's not very good for some reason. But Josai at least made runs.

Like if Hardin and Kyrie don't get hurt that year, they probably win the title, right? All I'll say is Ryan's Dorf would like a word. He'd like to, you know, some consideration in this conversation. That's fair. The Chicago's a pretty big market. The legacy kit owners, which we always have made fun of being terrible. Legacy kit owners won in 23, 24, and 26. Celtics win 24.

23, the Cronkies. Josh was running the Nuggets. And then 26, James Dullen. So there you go for that. All right, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and I have some good mailbag stuff for you guys. This episode is brought to you by Devmen Plus Care. fellas, it's time to care for your skin like you care for the game.

Dove Men Plus Care is an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026 and has just dropped their new limited edition deodorant and antiperspirant collection. The deodorant is gentle on your skin, bringing you 72 hour protection with zero aluminum. The antipersprim comes in a gozon dry spray or a smooth glide stick, keeping you fresh from kickoff to the final whistle. Visit dove.com slash CA slash E.N. Cash care to shop now. All right, mailbag questions.

You can send them to BS Podcast 33 at gmail.com. This is from Joe from Waterloo, Illinois. He said with the incredible playoff run of these Knicks, we need an updated key to the city rankings. This is for if you win the title, you just own the city and get the key. And he said right now the rankings in his mind. Number one, Josh Allen.

Number two, Jalen Brunson. Number three, Austin Matthews. hockey. Number four, Caleb Williams and number five, Jared Guff. Who's missing for you, Jacob's, in that one? I want to put Gino Smith in there.

What a phenomenal answer? Geno Smith for what team? What team is he on? This is very funny. Go ahead. The Jets. Okay. Think about it.

Think about it. House? I had two guys. I had Anthony Edwards because, you know, Minnesota deserves somebody, and there's nobody on their football team that you can point to. I mean, if Kyler Murray turns out to be, you know, some incredible version, but I, right. So I love Anthony Edwards.

And then I feel like, you know, Joe Burrow could be in the conversation. Cincinnati, the football team has, you know, a long record. I tried to come up with somebody from Atlanta, but I don't, I don't think Atlanta gives enough of a shit about sports. Ironically, it'll be Anthony Edwards when he goes to Atlanta. I had Anthony Edwards as well. I had Joe Burroughs as well. Joe Burrow.

I had Devin Booker because the sons, even though they've been relevant every decade, have never actually won the title. And then I just put Brown's QB, TB, TBD. If it ever happens for them, I think that's top three. We just don't know who that is. But I think right now, I like the Josh Allen won Jalen Brunson, too. I think that's right. very good.

If Jalen Brunson wins the title for the Knicks, it's an all-time, you're a hero, it's a standing O when you walk into a room. It's basically what Ortiz is like in Boston, where Ortiz, like, even now, all these years later, just walks in, people start applauding. I want to push back a little bit on Josh Allen. Give me Caleb Williams. Okay. Because in Chicago, they just live and die with the bears.

They never had a good quarterback somehow. They did win 40 years ago. The franchise. Yeah, they did. And the bills have a history. But I feel like just the big marketness of the city and like, you know, when the Cubs won, what a big deal it was.

And, you know, I've been to Buffalo games. I've been to Buffalo games. I've been to Buffalo a few times. It's a small town. You know what I mean? I just don't know it's going to impact the world the same way that a Bears Super Bowl win on the back of a quarterback instead of a defense at a running back would be big.

When Jacobi says, the bills have a history that's like saying Lamar Odom has tried drugs a couple times. The bills have more than a history. The bills are the fucking conjuring house. All right, next question's from Kevin.

Jalen Brunson's success is often credited to his strong work ethic and mastery of fundamentals similar to Jake Shuttlesworth, the father character and he got game trying to instill into his son Jesus at a young age. that would be Rick Brunson. Do you think that Rick Brunson is a real-life Jake Shuttleworth, Jake Shuttleworth,

a Sands manslaughter. So Jake Shuttall, I thought it was Shuttlesworth. I thought it was Sons, too, not Sands, but okay. Whatever. Or Sands. Sons. Sons.

Yeah, Sons. Sons manslaughter. So do you think Jake, no manslaughter? Good Rick Brunson thing? Probably he wouldn't love it, but. I do feel like that's one of the reasons Jalen Brunson is so tough though. You got the feeling his dad was just,

it's like a sports movie. It's like not as bad as great Santini, but when the whole thing is based on that one video. It's that one video that we have of him dribbling up and they're filming it. And like his dad is being such like a like a hardo. And he seems like little poor little Jalen Brunson is not having a good time in that video.

No. Like he's not enjoying, you know, working out with his dad in that sunny day. That video to me, which it was not, I didn't love it, to be honest. It's like me and Zoe with soccer, like some of the videos we have. It's Shuttle's Worth. I knew I was right.

Shuttle's worth. The remarkable thing to me with the Brunson's is Rick's role, which is enormous on the bench and in the organization. Because I think he's had a hand, a steering hand in all of the team building that's taken place over the last three years that put this team into the finals. and he definitely had a hand in convincing his son to take an undermarket extension so that they could bring in this extra talent. I mean, it's a fascinating documentary at some point after this run is over,

maybe even after Brunson's career is over. Let's sit down and really talk to the Brunson's about what went down for this time. Well, you left out. They hired Rick Brunson as assistant coach before the summer that they were trying to sign Jalen Brunson to make him leave Dallas, which was an old college trick that they would do,

where you would sign the dad on the college team as you're trying to recruit the kid. So that worked too. I mean, West and Leon played all the tricks with building this next team. They were working it. Like, they get OG and Adobe knowing that he's going to be a free agent, but also knowing that he's a CIA client that I have a relationship, that they could probably talk him in the staying. And this is a relationship's business, Chikovs.

Remember they went to Jalen Brunson's playoff games, too? They, like, sat there and just, like, stare at it while he was on the maps. It was very obviously that they were interested in that I'm terrified that someone will investigate the Brunson deal because it just really makes no sense on paper unless, you know, perhaps, you know, there's a, there's a tree planting company somewhere. Yeah, right. Could be a tree planting company in New York. Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban was really on a heater in the 2020s.

He could add Brunson for four for 55 and went low, but somehow lost Brunson. just loses them, right? Then decides to sell the team. He sells right before all the franchise valuations go flying up, sells for way less, sells it to this ownership that then, oh, and by the way, hired Nico Harrison before he sold to the ownership. And then Nico Harrison trades their best player. And now he's like, I don't know, I can't believe he did that.

It's like, you're the reason they don't have Jaila Brunson and Luca Dachians. You're literally the reason. with the extra irony of him thinking that he was going to have some continuing decision-making role, some continuing input role. Which does never happen in sports history. Not only that, but it's been reported that Harrison was one of the people. And immediately took a giant knife and stuck it right in Cubans back on that idea. Really crazy.

Amazing. Michael from Gower, Missouri, wants to know if the Thunder, if they went back-to-back, should retire Kowaz jersey. considering he's basically the reason this entire run is happening because the Paul George trade, are there any other examples of players that never played for a team but had such a massive success that they should have their jersey retired anyway? First of all, it should be Kauai and Paul George's jerseys together. It would be the move. I'm not against it.

It's the most important moment in the history of the franchise that they did that trade. But I was thinking like a player who single-handedly caused a type of, for another team. And the only one I can really think of in the history of the NBA, where you can literally say, like, thanks to that guy, we won the title, is Frank Selvey on the 1962 Los Angeles Lakers. Game 7, end of the game,

has a nine-footer, and if he makes it, the Lakers win the title, and he missed it. Baseline jumper. It's like a 12-footer. And if he makes it, Celtics lose to the Lakers. We don't have Jerry West, like, you know,

as the character in the HBO series someday. There's been other moments where it was like, oh, if that hadn't happened, like Manu fouling, Dirk in 2006. But Frank Self is the only one we could say if he makes that shot, the title changes. But here's my question for you guys. Could teams retire GMs, maybe not numbers, but the names of GM decisions from other teams that led to a bunch of titles for them? So I'm going to give you four. David Kahn, Minnesota, took Ricky Rubin. and then Johnny Flynn over

Steph Curry and could Golden State like have a David Conn ceremony thanking him for what he did. Same thing for Stu Inman, the Portland Trailblazers GM who took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Should probably be in the rafters in Chicago. Bob Bass,

Charlotte Cornets, GM, 1996. The Lakers are like, we'll trade you Vladay DeVatch for the 13th pick. He's like, that sounds great. But the event is really good. And trades them Kobe Bryant and they win five things. And then the last one, this is my favorite, Slick Leonard, the 1978 coach GM of the Indiana

Pacers, has the number one pick in 1978. And it's the draft where you could pick Larry Bird and wait a year for him to come into the league. He's playing for Indiana State. Indiana is in such bad shape as a franchise. They had a telethon that year to try to save the team. That's how broke they are. they don't take Larry Bird.

They trade back from one to three with Portland for Johnny Davis and the third pick. And then their fans think, oh, they traded back because we're taking Bird. Nope, they took Rick Roby. And then the Celtics got him sick. So you could argue Slick Leonard, the GM, but Jacobs, do you like the idea of retiring GM? I don't, I don't like the idea of the opposing GM.

No, no, because it's in the Raptors forever. You're going to have to like tell your Greg. It's like, what is that doing there? Like, who was slick letter? You have to explain? I like the idea of just, like, having a night. Like, one of my favorite moments in sports history was when the Red Sox fans in Fenway were cheered Mariano Rivera.

Oh, yeah, 2005. And he tipped his cap. You know what I mean? It was one of my favorite moments in sports history because he was so cool about it. He's already a champion in a hall of favorite and a legend. He had a sense of humor about it. I think it should be a night like that. There would be, like, one night where it's David Khan night for in Golden State.

And he comes out there at halftime they do a little ceremony and they cheer him. They interview them. So, David, you took two point cards in 2009. And so neither are Steph Curry. Let's walk through it. What a great moment for us. It feels like a celebration instead of like a permanent fixture inside the arena that's there forever. Jack from Atlanta writes, I'm consistently amazed by Adam Silver's inability to have a feel for public perception of the league.

I don't think that's fair. But the playoffs are the most important time in the season. The constant talk among my friends is flopping. why can't we shame these players for being uncool? Why can't they come up with something to stop this? This has been a topic on a lot of shows. I've been thinking about this a lot. And it's weird.

It wasn't an SGA moment. It was that moment when maybe it was A.J. Mitchell, whoever was somebody who was setting a screen and they went flying and they called an offensive foul and the guy sitting in the screen on the Spurs. Oh, it was. Yeah. And then they, it was, yeah, Jay Will. And then they did the wide shot, the overhead shot of him bumping into the guy and then flailing. And I wonder like when they added the flagrant foul point system, which most famously came back to haunt Draymond in 2016 when he had to miss game five because he had too many points.

Would you guys be cool if they had like a flopping point penalty system where the lead just announced the next day? We find SGA one flopping point for third. quarter or whatever. And it's just like you get to 15 points. You miss the next game. Like, would people sign up for that? Because I actually think I would. Jacobi's shaking his head now. I love it. I absolutely love it. And because in the same way that they upgraded the plumly foul, there's some, you know, smart people review the tape. In the moment you can't, because they do have like a flopping foul. Right. Right. Real time, the rest, I mean, if you can't ask the refs to evaluate that in real time. So I think they could

do some sort of like, even if it's like the two minute report, like we reviewed the tape. And, you know, there's seven flops, I mean, flops, even just like public shaming. But one thing I love about what's happening is, as a Nick fan, I've already grown a really strong hatred of both the spurs and the thunder. So whoever makes it through, I already have a nice foundation of I fucking can't stand. You guys that's just ready to boil over. Well, ironically, Brunson does it too. He's, what?

But more on, Brunson does it on picks and defense really more than offensive. SGA doesn't want an offense. Why are you making a face-house? I'm a smith. I'm a smith confused. Confused with what? I mean, I think that Brunton plays pretty physical. And I mean, the stuff on defense and coming off the screen,

I'm sure we can find those examples. He's a flopper. He does. He does. I watch all the game. Yeah. Yeah, he tries to sell offensive foul picks. This is his big thing.

I have a prudson flopping theory. One of my theories is that he has those little braids, those little twists because when he jerks his head back, it looks more violent because his hair flies. It's a visual tool. I like this. So would you sign up for the 15 point flop system? You just get a point? Anything that, you know, communicates to the NBA viewing public us that the league is taking this seriously is going to be a good thing. I think it would be fine if they just called two flops every first quarter, you know, they had the opportunity.

opportunity during this playoff run, this stretch where it's really become prominent. And we know that the league has the capacity for changing how it calls games over the course of regular season into playoffs. They allow more physical play. And even

the rotating referee crews, you could just call flops. I can't think of a game where a flop was called in they don't call that. They don't call offensive three seconds when the guy has the ball for too long when he's posting up. They call that like three times a year. Remember they added that rule? You can't just slowly post up for 10 seconds.

And they're like, you can't do it. It's got to be for shingoon. It's like the only one that gets called for that. I would love a flopping thing. I think it's a good idea. From the pitch to the stands to communities around the world. The beautiful game is coming to our beautiful country. Uniting fans around a shared passion. Now you have the opportunity to hold this chapter of Canadian soccer history in the palm of your hands. Score the FIFA World Cup 2026, $1 coin today. Look forward in your change. How can working at your local Tims take you further? Sure, you can level up your teamwork skills. You also get a chance to receive a Tim Horan's scholarship award. Ready for what's next?

Apply today at careers.timhorans.ca.chan from New York wants to know. If Spurs Thunder is supposed to be the main event, would the Nix be the money in the bank champs waiting in the wings to take advantage of a compromised opponent. This is great. Like a great wrestling analogy. Just let these two teams beat each other up and the next are waiting. Like the series ends and they're coming in right away. I always get this email about whether money in the bank would work in the NBA and the answer is obviously no. But it would be amazing. Like you finish a series and then all of a sudden the next team just comes in. Oh, they're cashed in. They're cashed in the suitcase. All right, Haas, you're going to love this one. This is from Joe from far northern Chicago

suburbs. Okay. Conspiracy Bill. He starts it. Scott Foster's public-facing NBA referee profile page, and this is true because I looked it up, lists Shameless and Ozark, as his two favorite television shows. I haven't watched Shameless, but Ozark is definitely about illegal money laundering schemes and organized crime.

Wikipedia tells me Shameless is about people running scams and committing crimes to get money. how is this possible that he put these two as his two favorite TV shows? It's from Joe. Well, he's living by curiously. That feels like a bit at that point. It could be.

And I hope it's a bit. He should have added your friends and neighbors is this third one. I love that show too. People steal another great one. Yeah. Jacoby's like afraid to talk. Oh, no, I love your friends and neighbors.

I'm sewing on your friends and neighbors. That Birch billionaire character, I'm absolutely in love with her. I can't wait for her to come back and ruin our guys. life. I'm in on friends and neighbors so hard. On that same page, it says Scott Foster's favorite movie is Braveheart. No one's favorite movie is Brayhart. Scott Foster's this. No one. He's lying.

Liam Manley writes in, I sent this one to you guys. Caruso's 22 point game five has to be top three role player ever, Horace Nigueda. So he points out, I created the 42 Club, which was points rebounds and his seven. in the playoffs. And if they add up to 42 or above, odds are you're a pretty special player.

And it's been pretty reliable over the years, especially because I did 42 exactly because it was the best way to leave out Carl Malone. He's saying, could we have a 21 club? If you average over 21 points, rebounds, and assists multiple seasons, you're not a role player. And if you're under it, you are. I'm tweaking this to playoffs.

And I like the under 21. I wonder if we could go a little lower. I sent you guys a bunch of stats. I have some role player questions for you, though. Can you be one of the best four guys in your team and be a role player, Jacoby? I'd say you can't be one of the four most offensively productive. Best is a weird word to use because sometimes role players are the best because they're great defenders and great screen setters and assist guys.

but I did consider this and I don't like the minutes restriction stuff because sometimes role players are like starters that play the entire time you know what I mean? Bruce Bowen was in 05-07 36 minutes a game but was clearly a role player yes what he average like six and a half points

yeah six points three rebounds one assist yeah yeah yeah guy gouges and one step on the foot one kick in the balls two hits in the face yes I also don't I don't consider Iguada a role player. He was a role player for that championship team. But if you're like a former star and you used to sort of like have your own team, that's not a role player to me.

That's sort of like a fading star accepting a new role. So the other case for Igoudala not being a role player is he was the fourth best guy in that team. And the finals MVP. Curry, Clay, Drayman, Igudal is the fourth best guy at worst. So can you be the role player if you're the fourth best guy in a team? That's a problem with the Caruso role player candidacy because you could argue he's one of the four best guys in this team. Well, you can also argue that he's been forced to be one of the four best guys

in the team due to the injury. Right. And the Michael Cooper was the other one who might have been the fourth best Laker during his whole run, but was a role player. What do you think, House? The definitions part of this is where the true intrigue comes into me, because it's hard, like, how many rings, if we're doing an all-time list, do you have to be on a team?

I feel like you need two to be like that level one, yeah. Because that's helpful. That crosses. It means Trevor Areza is off the list. That means Jason Terry is off the list. That means Kendrick Perkins is off the list. Bill Walton. He only had the one.

Yeah. And then it's like, is there a quality threshold? Jacobi just mentioned Negudala. Like, Manu, Manu. No. Both. Manu and Manu. Mono.

Both. Mono was too good. He can't be a role player. He was, I think, I think one of the best 100 basketball players of all time. Yeah. It's a Hall of Famer?

But if you look at his numbers and how he was used. You could say, well, he's six man. He's a role player, but I just don't think he was. And then do you need the two titles? So that moves us more. To me, like the best way to figure this out is to look at guys that we know are role players, which is

clearly Robert Hoery and the Lakers and the spurs. Interestingly, Rockets Robert Hoary, not a role player, but arguably the third best guy in that team. Sure. I like that. Mario Ellie, 22 minutes a game, 7 points, three rebounds, and two assists in their two titles.

seasons. That to me is a role player. Caruso, I think, makes it. It's basically 10 and 3, the last couple years playing, whatever. Philly Bobby Jones is a good one. James Posey and 06 and 08's another good one. We lose Boris Dio. Steve Kerr, 19 minutes a game, 6, 1, and 2. And then Fisher is a great one. 30 minutes a game, 9, 2, and 3. And I guess we have to put Bruce Bowen in. would you say instead of the 42 club maybe it's like the 17 club it's got to be like 17 and under for points of rebounds and assists

you're an official role player in that can't right? Right? Yeah. Let me ask about Ron Harper who another good one. Ended up with multiple rings. Bulls Ron Harper. Yeah. And Lakers Ron Harper. I mean it's kind of important true to both. He ended up

with 153 playoff games, five rings. And he's just under 21. He's 11.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.9 is this. And was out there in a crush time, a bunch. I've got one for you. Yeah. Javelle McGee.

Did he have how many titles though? Multiple titles. No, Lakers and Warriors. Nuggets. Oh, that's right. He had the Warriors one, yeah. And he did kind of play for them. Yeah, he played a role.

Like, to me, a role player, like, you kind of do one thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Ron Harper might be like too good like everything kind of. Yeah, maybe so. You know, like that's why like Caruso, it's like I'm a defender. And if you leave me open, I'll hit a three. I'll do some energy stuff in transition.

Like the, I like a guy like McGee because he's like, he's our big backup that comes in and blocks shots and he's kind of weird. And he rebounds. And you know, it's like Tristan Thompson on the Cavs. Like I have a role. Like no one's going to ever give me the ball game of the shot clock. Yeah. Yeah.

Like that to me is like a role player. It's kind of like, you know it when you see it. He's a role. Important. spin-off question this question. Chacobes, when we played pickup hoops together for two years at USC, was I a role player?

Yes. I was old. Yes. Your impact was more just like you're kind of like a coach on the floor. And remember that guy in the Lakers you were talking about who hit the baseline shot that I had no idea who you were talking about, Selvie, Fred Selvie, whatever that guy's name is.

I would have made it. Frank Selvie. I was like, I hope he doesn't ask me a question about Frank Selvie. Like, I don't know what I see who's a kid is. But not. to 12 feet on the baseline is just Bill's spot. 18. That's his spot. 17?

17. You are my boss. You are my boss. So yeah. Oh, 17. 16? Yeah. Yeah.

What about breaking up the two for one? Two on ones? I mean, that's, I mean, you're, you're great at that. But if I was the number one option, we were losing.

Yeah, we were losing. Yeah. I needed to be the number four option, which made me a role player. Yes. And then we're winning and we're staying on the court for a while. John Colleen

sent a Sam Perkins question on role player. asking if Sam Perkins was the Jerry West of role players. Mavericks, late 80s, Lakers, early 90s, Supersonics, Pacers. Sam Perkins was a role player on the 96 Sonics and O.O. Pacers that made finals. He was kind of better than a role player in the 93 Sonics, and then the 91 Lakers, he was probably the third best player. But then also in Dallas. He played in five conference finals for three different teams, four different teams. and three finals. Really interesting Sam Perkins career, sent me on a deep dive,

167 playoff games for Sam, 35th all time, and kind of had all the phases of Sam, and then finally crested with the Indiana. It looked like he had just smoked a bowl. He weighed like 300 pounds, but could still hit a three at any time. But really fun run for him. Hadn't thought about Sam Perkins in a while, guys. I feel the same way. And I always like, you know, my mind's eye is like, oh, he's, he's, he's talented. I expected, you know, him to make the right play. His Hoops IQ was always in the right place. But maybe I'm only thinking about the end of his career.

Well, he was on the Lakers. So one of the best game ones ever, which I mentioned to you, I think I mentioned to you the last time we did this was that Bulls Lakers game one, MJ misses the game winner and bounces around and goes out. But Perkins made the three. That was the game winning play. They set up for him. Sam Perkins really good.

All right. Really, really important question from Corey from San. George, Utah. In your book of basketball, you debated a team of five of the same player versus any other duplicated five. Would a team of five Victor Wembeñamas be the ultimate team that would beat any other version of five other guys? Meaning, could five Wembees beat five LeBrons?

Could five Wembees beat five Iversons, et cetera, et cetera? Chobo shaking has said. Absolutely not. No way. I feel the same way. I would say, I think that's always, I'm one of the, the, of all of all, like, the super stars, he's probably one of the worst to clone four more times and put out there because he is so tall. Like, who's bringing up the ball? Wemby? Wemby? Yeah, that's the problem. Who's like,

when Bwembe number five is bringing up the ball? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Chicoke's, I actually think I completely disagree with you. I think five Wembees kills everyone. You play zone with the five Wembees. How do you score? What are you talking about? How am I getting a shot off against five Wembees? they're doing is playing zone. How am I shooting anything? All right. I have a counter. I'm five Michael Jordans. I agree with this. That's the answer.

You guys would take five Michael Jordans over five Wembe's? Definitely. Bill, Bill, I'm going to allow you to retract this statement. I'm not retracting it. Wemby's seven foot six. Five Michael Jordans? What are you talking about? Against five Wembees? What are you even top? Peak Michael Jordan? Michael

Air, Jeffrey Jordan? I, the one, we have to break this out as a social clip. This might be funny. I can't believe this. But the one Wemby couldn't post up in game five because Oklahoma City. Yeah, he gets tired in the second quarter.

So you're saying one of the five mega Jordans is pushing out of the way. But then we'll just bring in another Wembe to get closer. It's a feature. He doesn't have enough last. They keep talking about it. Five Jordans, you need somebody

who's good at everything. Jack of all trades. Wimby's a very unique player because of his height. He needs guards and people to set him up. He doesn't, like, honestly, he doesn't even create his own shots. The best Wembe is rolling to the basket, and then Steph Castle just blindly throws the ball up in the air, and he either tips it in or he tips it off the rim to himself and dunks it. See, I think five LeBrons would have a better chance than five Jordans. Jordan was six, six. It's a good argument.

Now we're having, like, quite smaller. Instead of the LeBron Jordan debate, we're having the LeBron and his clones. Five Lembys versus five Webbys, five Lebrons. five James Hardens would have some trouble because that's the other thing. Five curries could just like bomb threes and try to beat them with math, right? It was like, we don't care how tall you are.

I'm just going to shoot 30 footers. I love it. Matt from Toronto is exhausted by the term generational. It's supposed to be once in a generation. Now he's hearing it's a generational draft, multiple generational prospects. He said in his eyes, only two generational players are in the NBA right now.

LeBron, whose generation is ending and Wembe's whose generation is starting. He wants to retire the word generational for everyone else. Let's not use it anymore. I would throw in Joker as a generational offensive player, which I think he is.

So I would say we have three people that the generational word can get thrown around. Other than that, I think he's right. I'm going to look at the mirror. It's like, how can you leave Curry out?

Generation. Oh, you're right. He's still in the league. He's definitely. Curry. Steph Curry generational shooter. So there's four. Not Durant.

Generational scorer. He's going to go down as the most prolific score. He's a generational scoring forward. Generational Twitter. And Durant's kind of the line for this. Generational scoring forward, but what does that even mean? So Curry Shiner. Generational.

You don't. Because I just don't know when it starts or when it ends. It's kind of like when you go to a store and they have the sign on the door that says like be back in five minutes. I'm like, when did you, when did the five minutes start and when is it going to end? And how do you know when I'm going to see the sign? So it's like the generations sort of like lead into each other is what I feel like. There's no defined beginning and end of the generation, sort of just like a sliding 20 years through time.

Would you say House is a generational leader? Yes. I agree with this. I would say all time. I think he is too, because any time over the course of my life when people who didn't know House ate with House, there's always that point in the meal when they just become impressed that a house is still eating

and that he's picking stuff off other plates and it's been going on forever, I think which makes him generational. He doesn't draw a lot of attention to it either. He's not performative with his overeating. You know what I mean? He's not talking about it. It's just sort of just slowly like,

oh, hey, no, the guy will come by and be like, oh, you're done with the egg rolls? Oh, no, no, I'll take that up. Do you think I'm a generational playing Blackjack at 4.30 in the morning guy or no? No. Okay.

House, this question's for you from Cody Kay. He's a longtime Wizards fan. Oh, great job, Cody. He's lived through the draft picks of people like Jan Vesley. I'm familiar. He's lived through overpaying Otto Porter. He's lived through playing and coaching of Randy Whitman. That happened.

Losing on purpose. Sure. He's excited about the draft. And he's seen recent rumors of the Wizards getting in on the Greek freak sweepstakes. Am I losing my mind? thinking a lineup of Trey, Tray Johnson, Bilal,

AD and the freak could work. He didn't even mention your number one pick in the draft. Plus, we have dullest of grease flights. He wants to point out to. This is true. You still haven't talked yourself into this. It's outrageous.

It's preposterous. I understand the season that we're in now with the NBA where we have to, you know, go into this drama queen mode because there isn't anything to talk about from the games. but there is no scenario under which it makes a lick of sense for Janus to come to Washington.

None whatsoever. Jacoby, where do you want Janus to go? Yeah. What's your team? What's the most fun for content, Janus team? Expendables is off the table. Yeah. Most fun for content is going to be the Nets.

Just like a terrible Nets team. And they win like 30 games. He's just pissed. But he's in New York and there's like rumors about him being out in clubs and stuff. It's just like, and he's just getting hammered. He's just like, God, I was actually better off in Milwaukee than I am here in Brooklyn. That would be for content, would be the funny. It's just because of the spotlight the New York market puts on you.

And like, you think it's bad with your roster in Milwaukee. Like, welcome, welcome to Clowny and Jomon. I think Miami would be the most fun. Heat culture versus you also have to sign my two brothers if I'm coming. We do that whole thing. That could be fun. Jason from New Jersey has a Greek freak thing. He says with Wemby doing what he's doing,

do we have to rescind Janice's nickname Greek Freak or the Freak? Next to Wembe, he doesn't seem to be freakish. Not saying we need to call Wembe the French freak, but I don't think we can have other players called Freak if Wemby's in the league. I disagree. I'm fine with Janus is the freak. We've called him the freak.

Wembe is the alien or the UFO. Alien. Yeah, he's alien. He's not a freak. He's more than a freak. Yeah, because he hasn't earned anything yet. Janus earned the freak. He didn't just arrive and we looked at him and started calling him the freak just because of how he looked.

It's because of how he played, his force of will, his dominant style. That's what really, he filled out the freak. Right now it is fine to call Wemby an alien or, you know, from a different whatever. Because that's all that we can ascribe to him. There's nothing, it's a great run. I'm thrilled for the spurs. And let's see how this plays out before we start giving. him any nicknames other than recognizing

that he's a giant person. Would five Janus's beat five Wembe's? Yes. Oh, phenomenal. I agree with Jacob's. Strong, yes. I don't think Five Wembees is a strong team. I really don't think Five Wembe's a strong team. I could beat five Wembe's.

I love this. I can't wait to see what people think of this. I can't believe you're going because that's a social clip. I want a freak to get to a Western conference team and dunk on Wembe, you know, repeatedly. I think there's a real you know,

he's mad he took his corner. Yeah, exactly right. Not the free corner, but, you know, who's the biggest, baddest big guy? It's like what's happening in Euphoria right now is Zendaya and Sydney Sweeney. No? Well, I haven't watched one episode,

but I already know which way I'm leaning on this one. One of them has been naked the whole season. Yes, and I know which one that is. So there you go. Marcus is a huge Sons fan, and he's still having trouble, especially with the recent Jalen Brunson thing, digesting the Sun's 2018 draft. And he said when they took DeAndre Aten over Luca Donchich, it was so monumental, it overshadowed everything else that happened that night.

The Sun set three of the first 31 picks. They took with the first pick, DeAndre Atenre Aten over Luca Donchich. With the 10th pick, 10th pick, they took Mikhail Bridges over Shadegildeg's. Alexander and with the 31st pick, they took Elyacobo over Jalen Brunson. I did not realize this. Elyacobo. I'm not familiar with him. So they passed up Luca Donchich, SGA, and Brunson all in a row.

And they all got taken either the next pick or two picks later. Pretty interesting. How's that, like, broke house and spring. I'm trying to think who the GM was for that. That's the kind of stuff the Sixers have been doing for a decade now. I really enjoyed. Kevin from Malden, diehard Celtic fan,

along with all his buddies, and said if it's a Knicks Thunder series, who do we root for? We're very split. None of us like New York teams, none of us want to root for the Knicks. That's how fucking annoying

the Thunder are to watch, Kevin from Maldon writes. You have a bunch of Boston guys rolling with the Knicks over the floppers. Jesus Christ, I hope Wembe and the Spurs, pull it off. Wow.

I kind of feel the same way. The basketball fan of me would probably root for the NICS storyline, even though it's a New York team and New York will be insufferable for years after. You can hate the NICs, but it's hard to hate these NICs. It really is. Even if you're from Boston. I get it. You hate the uniform, but the players and the vibes, like,

and they're going to be underdogs to the floppers, I think you have to go Nix even if you're in Boston. What do you think, guys? It's a great, great point. I agree with me on this, yeah. Okay. This is a good one. Maybe we end on this. Speaking of flopping from Liam from Minneapolis,

he recently watched the 1997 movie Double Team, starring Dennis Rodman and Jean-Claude Van Damme and was thinking, what current NBA player action star duo should we get to remake this and was wondering if it should be Anthony Edwards and Jason Statham? I had an idea.

they remake double team as double flop with SGA and Statham. That's phenomenal. I made this on CGI. You did that. Yeah, look at you. I put in,

I make a double flop movie poster for me and they did it. Double flop. It can't be, Satham is too legit. You need a worse action hero. If SGA was an action movie person, his move would be,

he's in fight scenes and he would be flopping and the people would be just completely confused. Disarmed. He would dive into them with like an elbow thing and go flying and they'd be like, what the fuck did that? And then Stathel would just come in and punch him in the face. That would be the move. You don't agree with that? I was so scared to Google double team movie Dennis Rodman because I'm not the result of I'm sure there were some double teams filmed during this film.

You guys. Those two guys together. Yeah, I felt like we should just be careful. I felt like treading carefully here was the right move. You guys got really scared there for a second. I mean, the action hero bit. That's all I have pretty knows. Statham might be too big.

So the biggest thing we argued about was five Wembe's versus five Michael Jordan's. One of your worst takes. One of your worst takes, honestly. I'll be interested to see what America thinks. Kind of insane. I have a zone defense of five, seven foot six guys. It's Michael Jordan versus a 22-year-old French guy. who shot four for 15 because he couldn't get in the lane against Oklahoma.

He took one shot. You guys have a defense guy against Isaiah Hardinstein. Listen, if I was actually picking this in my life, depending on it, I'm picking five Michael Jordans against everybody. I just have them would have the most confidence. I'm picking five Isaiah Hartenstines over five Wembeys. Five Isaiah Hartinstein's over five Wembees. That's a good matchup.

Before we go, House, who do you want with the number one pick? AJ hasn't changed. It's AJ. AJ all day. I love that guy. The whole long story that the Utah feature writer did

about what's the deal with Darren Peterson's cramping situation. Did you read that? Did not, don't care. You should read it because it will make you maybe not want to take him as much

and move maybe more toward AJ. I already, who? I already said AJ. I want AJ. You know, he reclassified as an A. He reclassified as an eighth grader house.

He did eighth grade twice. Who did? Who did? think, AJ? Don't care. I watched him play basketball. He's fucking awesome. He is really good.

I hope you take AJ. Me too. Who do you want them to take Jacoops? AJ. Or Caleb, I'm staying away from Peterson. If I'm like the number four pick, who's at the Jazz?

It's the Bulls. It's the Bulls. Yeah, I'd be terrified if Peterson drops to me. I kind of, your hands are tied. You have to take him. Wow.

I'd be terrified to drop Peterson. I really would. I'd be terrified. I watched some of those games. It was just like weird. He'd have 22 in the first app and just be like, yeah, I'm out.

I'm done. He's one of the all-time terrified to take them, terrified not to take them, guys that we've had in the draft. Either way, either way you're just scared for the result. You should get Dominic from Dubuque to ask that question in the next mailbag. Dominic from Dubuque, who's that? I don't know. I just came up with that.

It feels like a guy that might have a question about the all-time list for guys. You're damned if you do, Dan, if you don't. Hopefully Dominic, if there's a Dominic in Dubuque, hopefully he'll run in. All right, guys. It was great to see both of you. Jacob's, we'll watch on this to do on the mismatch. And food news.

Julia Lippman, House, Fairway, Roll, and U.S. Open coming up. Yeah, we got the memorial. We're in Jack's place next week. That's going to be exciting. That's always a good test as well. Are you going to bet on World Cup or now? Yeah, I've already bet on Norway over Iran.

That was one. I'm just doing whatever. Anthony Dubundo tells me to do. So I'll be betting. I'm almost definitely betting against the U.S. when they play a good team. But I'm just listening to the Bundo. Definitely betting on the World Cup.

Already you've been Norway over Iran. Dubundo, I think, might have had an aneurysm today because Sinner lost in the French Open. It was like a minus 12,000 favorite or something. It's incredible. And he'd end up losing. Right. French Open is wide open.

Anyway. All right, guys. Good to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacobian House. Thanks to Mahoney. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget to watch 2001, a space odyssey before the end of the weekend because that's going to be the next rewatchables.

Enjoy the weekend. I will see you next time here on the Bill Simmons podcast. Must be 21 plus in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. GameProhm, 800, 800, My Reset. Call 888-79-7777. or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org, or call 800, 327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 8778. Hope, NY. Or text Hope, NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 8777-770-8867.