The Bill Simmons Podcast - 'Game of Thrones' Odds, the NBA's Turbulent East, and the Tanking Knicks With Mallory Rubin, Jason Concepcion, and Kevin O'Connor | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 482)

Episode Date: February 13, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O'Connor to discuss the top of the Eastern Conference heading into All-Star Weekend, including the 76ers, Celtics, Bucks, and Raptors (2:10). Then Bill sits down with 'Binge Mode' cohosts Jason Concepcion and Mallory Rubin to talk about Joe Flacco's exit from the Baltimore Ravens, the Knicks successfully tanking, and some gambling odds for the final season of HBO's 'Game of Thrones' (52:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you as always by ZipRecruiter. You know what's smart? Coming into work when you're sick. Oh no, that's not smart. What are you doing, Nephew Kyle? Reliable. He's a gamer.

He's sneezing all during this podcast. You know what else is smart? Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS to hire the right people for your business. Their technology identifies people with the right skills for your job, actively invites them to apply. Right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com. Slash BS, ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, Bud Light, did you know not all alcohol products are required to list their ingredients? That was news to me. Bud Light,

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where we have one of my favorite weird things we've written. It was the dog Oscars. Did you see this, Kyle? I saw it. It was all about categories of dogs. I mean, who doesn't love dogs? Now we're handing out Oscars for dogs on The Ringer. I was very proud of whoever thought of that idea.

The Ringer Podcast Network running full steam. The Rewatchables. We did A Star is Born this week. And we have, you know what's coming next week? Dave. I still haven't watched it. You have to watch it. Man, Dave.

I watched it last night. We're taping the podcast today. It is. Is it streamable or you bought it? It's streamable. It's on HBO. All right, thanks. Yeah.

You can watch Dave and then you can watch the rewatchables with us. Check out all of the Ringer podcast though, because we have something for everybody there on the Rer podcast network coming up mallory and jason from binge mode we're gonna talk game of thrones but first koc kevin o'connor right after this pearl jam All right, Mallory Rubin, Jason Concepcion coming up a little bit later. We're going to try to figure out who is going to be the winner of Game of Thrones. We have odds and a lot of opinions. We're also going to talk about Joe Flacco and the Knicks as well.

Kevin O'Connor here right now for The Ringer. Trade deadline was Thursday. Six days, we've got to see some of the new guys on these teams. And I'll just, I'll start, and then you can give your answer. Like, what's jumped out to me the most with the new guys on the new teams? Gasol looked really good on Toronto. And I feel like I underestimated that one in the moment because, you know, they've kind of been spiritless in Memphis in a lot of ways.

And just like the energy that that crowd was giving him. And then when you see like his basketball IQ with the other guys in that team who also have basketball IQ, it just like, I was watching, I was like, oh shit, I was sleeping on this one. That was the one that jumped out to me. What about you? I think, you know, with Gasol, like he has a playmaking presence at center for them that they haven't had. Like Valanchunas is a good center.

He learned how to shoot threes and space the floor effectively for them. But Gasol is still a better defender, even at age 34, a significantly better passer. And so with Kawhi like his only real weakness or like the one knock on him is his playmaking yeah and Gasol can help absorb some of that responsibility in addition to Lowry and the other guys I have now Jeremy Lin cutting he was finding them I was like oh shit it's um it's gonna be fascinating to see if he you know takes the starting role for Mbaka depending on certain matchups in the post season, or if they just keep bringing them off the bench and it keeps,

you know, bruising guys off the bench. Well, so if he's, to me, it's like, I need to get, if I'm going to win the title with this team,

I need to get four rounds out of Gasol. I need him to be healthy and moving around. Well, at one point this season, he looked done. Right. And then, and then the past month or so, he's been pretty good. Just like he point this season, he looked done. Right. And then the past month or so, he's been pretty good,

just like he was at the beginning of the year. Right. He had a great start of the year. He was making threes, dipped to the point that I took him out of the trade value, and then kind of rallied back a little bit. He's old anyway, even with the production. Well, my thing is,

if he's playing 25 minutes a game and just giving them 25 really good minutes a game, that's probably better for him than playing 25 minutes a game and just giving them 25 really good minutes a game, that's probably better for him than playing 35 minutes a game. I think, yeah, it's almost like it doesn't matter if he's starting or come off the bench. It's about how do you maximize his production? That's always the conversation with a lot of players.

Can you get more out of him in 25 minutes or more out of him in 33 minutes? Gasol, maybe at his age, he's able to give more effort over 20 to 25 minutes and sometimes stretched it out to 30 when necessary. And him coming off the bench

is kind of ludicrous, but in a way that, you know, could that be like their Bill Walton in 1986? Or, you know, we've seen this over the years. These contenders that just have that bench guy

who, when he comes in, completely changes where the game is going. And maybe he's that guy for them. And the good thing for them is they gave up two solid bench players. DeLon Wright and CJ Miles are good players off their bench. Miles has struggled shooting this year, but DeLon Wright is

a really good defensive player who had some playmaking and replacing him with Jeremy Lin I think alleviates some of what they lost and what they gave up for Gasol. So you think, are all the buyout guys done at this point? I think we're just about there, right? Unless DeAndre gets... Like a Robin Lopez type, maybe that happens.

I feel like that's going to be golden state if that happens. We're just about done now. Yeah, so I was looking at Toronto and it's early and we've seen this already with Philly for the second straight year. We saw it last year with Cleveland. They made those trades. They played well for two games.

Everybody had the Kobe Altman victory tour and then they cratered. Philly, we saw it with, they looked, they had 143 points against the Lakers team. That is just an abomination defensively. Everybody's like, wow, this is going to be amazing. And then the Celtics beat them last night. I look at the Philly-Toronto matchup, and we can talk about Philly in a second. And to me, that seems like a classic basketball IQ

versus talent matchup, where Philly probably has a little more talent, but the Toronto, the coaching part, the way those guys, I think, will eventually learn how to play off each other. I would just favor Toronto in that series. And the reason I bring that up is I think that's the 2-3 matchup in round two, unless there's an upset.

I don't like that matchup for Philly. What do you see? Well, I mean, I think with Philadelphia, what you mentioned about Toronto learning how to play with each other still, right, I mean, with integrating Kawhi Leonard and everything else, Philadelphia is having to make that adjustment midseason, first with Butler in November and obviously now with Harris. And with bench guys. Yeah, and with the bench guys as well. Mike Scott was out there yesterday and Simmons when playing

the Celtics. And I don't know, they're just bringing a lot of new people. I mean, I like that trade. You and I disagreed on that when it first happened. I think that trade was worth it for Philadelphia because of everything Harris can do. He's a versatile offensive player. I mean, Shamit, his shooting off screens was so damn good for them. But Harris can do that too. He's just bigger and a better defensive player. So Landry Shamit was a defensive liability for that team at a position where they're going to need help. Why did he need to be in that trade?

You got to give up something. That Miami pick is solid. Yeah, they gave up two picks but harris how do you get beverly back in the trade then how's beverly not in that trade this is why do you need mike scott and jonathan simmons like you know i want patrick beverly yeah beverly would have been nice to have but tobias harris we can't underrate him as an asset harris is a player who can run pick and roll for you He can screen for you and pick or roll, pop or roll. He can run off screens.

He can handle dribble handoffs. And for Philadelphia, what they're getting is a versatile guy who can play along anybody or he can be the guy when he's hot. For Philadelphia, the question moving forward for them, in my opinion, is will these guys all buy in to that just philosophy where sometimes on many nights,

guys are gonna have to take a back seat we've seen the answer i'm telling you now is no they might not you have two guys who are in line for a huge payday who aren't they don't want to be the glue guys jimmy butler doesn't want to take nine shots in a game and that could end up be end up what's happening where butler is unhappy and he leaves for a team where he does get shots that could happen but it's also possible these guys make a really deep run and that they do buy into each other with their long, versatile lineups

that they can have with Embiid and Simmons and Harris and Butler and then insert the fifth in there. Maybe it's Redick sometimes. So you trust the coaching and the basketball IQ of those five guys at the end of games. And you saw it last night

in that Celtics game. Please, Joel Embiid, keep shooting threes. I'm so happy when you're 26 feet away from the basket when you're 7'3", and you should be able to get Al Horford into foul trouble within 10 minutes. Sure.

With Embiid versus Horford, one of the difficulties in that matchup is Embiid's postgame is heavily reliant on drawing fouls, which is, okay, he's such a force down there, he draws a lot of fouls. But Horford is a guy who doesniant on drawing fouls which is okay he's such a force down there he draws a lot of fouls but yeah Horford is a guy who doesn't commit many fouls right he's a very very good uh fundamental defensive player so for Embiid if you look at like his synergy post stats he's like ranks like fourth and in efficiency including fouls but take those out he's close to average so if when you're going against al horford i think he suddenly

becomes an average post player which may be one may be one of the reasons why he he's pushed out to the three-point line granted he's not great that out there either look it's early i hate overreacting anything hayward had one of his best four games of the year and who knows if he can do that again in this set two minnesota games in this game yeah maybe like one do that again in a seven-game series. The two Minnesota games. In this game. Yeah, in this one. Yeah, maybe like one other one. In a seven-game series, from what we've seen from Hayward, he just can't consistently play at that level yet. On the other hand, he looked different from the first minute of that game yesterday.

There was an energy that he had that looked like Utah Hayward. And I think what's been shocking about him this year is he's just always kind of a step slow and just not assertive and aggressive. And the dumbest moment of the whole season was that Laker game when 30 seconds left, no timeouts left. You know Kyrie's gonna take it and probably score, right?

You have like 80% chance Kyrie scores to put them up by one. Smart's not on the court. Hayward is on the court. Horford stuffs Ingram. Ball's bouncing around. Hayward's a step slow to it. Ball goes to Rondo.

Hayward's a step slow to him. And it's just like, that's why Marcus Smart's in the league. He's getting that loose ball 100 times out of 100. And at that point, I was like, man, this Hayward thing, this is just a season killer. And then he comes yesterday and it's like whoa there's gordon hayward where have you been so i don't what do i what am i supposed to think about this it's kind of symbolic of the celtics as a whole really every time it seems like the celtics have fixed themselves they just have one of their worst losses of the season and then they follow that worst loss of the season with a really really really great win. Like they had against Philadelphia.

Those two LA losses were an atrocity. The Lakers staying there up six or the minute left. They're giving up threes to a team that all they want to do is shoot threes. I don't know why they're on the line that, that, that lost the Rondo play. That was awful.

And then the Clippers thing was even worse. And that was a key moment of the season for them. Cause they were, I think like 11 and one in their last 12 or something. And they had a schedule where you had that Philly game coming. You have a chance to really go on a run. And I thought what was fascinating last night,

and I want to talk about Philly in a second, but just the kind of passion they had last night. The ball was moving. The defense was as good as it's been. The guys were really pulling for each other. You even saw at the end of the game, people are smiling, they're hugging, they're chest bumping. The bench is up the whole time.

And I'm thinking, this is a team I really haven't seen this year play like this. And so what was missing? It was Kyrie. So what does that mean? It may mean nothing, ultimately. Or it does that mean? It may mean nothing. Ultimately, he was also... Or it may mean something.

It may mean something. It may mean like Kyrie's not here. Fuck that guy. Let's try to win this game without him. I think it was Kyrie. Something he said either last month or in December. He's like, after game 70, that's when you need to be ready for the playoffs.

And I think with this Boston team, that's true for a lot of things that they're trying to work out now, including Gordon Hayward, where with Hayward, yes, he's had these two really back-to-back impressive performances, especially that game against Philadelphia, where like you said, he looked more like Utah Hayward in terms of his aggression, driving to the rim and his intent on scoring. He was physical. Yeah. And he was like, he was driving and kicking out and doing stuff that he was great at at Utah. For sure.

I mean, Hayward's playmaking has been really good all year. I think Boston giving him the keys off the bench, essentially being the primary playmaker over Smart and Rozier a lot of the time was a smart move. But ultimately with Hayward, you need the scoring from him. He's your upside player. If Boston has any chance of getting past these other three teams in the East, Hayward needs to be at least 80 to 85% of what he was in Utah. I think,

I think maybe 100% of what he was is a lot to ask for his first year back. If he can get there, then I think Boston absolutely has a shot. I think it's interesting because so much time has passed now, but people forget how good he was in Utah. And there's been this whole thing. Well, he was overrated anyway. People didn't really know how great he was in Utah when he was in Utah.

Yeah. I think I voted for him for 13 All-NBA his last year there. But the thing I liked about his game the most was he just fits in with anything. He's just fun to play with. And I think, you know, he can handle the ball if you need to. He's a 40% three-point shooter on paper, can get to the line. He's a really smart defensive player who's always in the right spots. He's just kind of a good guy to have out there. And what was interesting about him this year was just his confidence had gotten shot to the point

that he really was a liability in a lot of these games. And I was talking to people I knew at the Celtics and the recurring theme, it was like, why are they still playing him? Like, is this like a coach's kid type thing? Like he's like Brad's son on the Little League team. Favorite student. Yeah. He's like, he's pitching because he's the coach's son. And everybody was saying, now you don't understand.

He's great in practice. He's killing it in practice. That's why he keeps playing these. It's some sort of mental block with the games. Because in practice, two out of every four times, he'll be the best guy on the court. That's why they keep playing him. And I'm like, really?

Because in the games, you wouldn't have ever known that he was even good. So Brad obviously is sticking with them and you i think you put in our slack yesterday you were saying like this was basically their trade deadline edition that was their mindset going in the trade deadline it's like hayward's going to be better that will be our trade deadline for sure i had a conversation with someone yesterday that kind of prompted that thought where it's like you look at the additions made you know the other three teams in these milwaukee added meritage obviously sixers added harris and then philadelphia adding um who did i miss toronto and gasol yeah with boston they didn't do anything

but if hayward does return to form he's essentially their deadline acquisition like turning from a guy who's just a like a glorified evan turner at the beginning of the season to to if you get Gordon Hayward for the rest of the season into the playoffs, that was your addition. We'll see if that happens. This could just be another flash in the pan for him like he's had over the full season. But I think the aggression is something that was missing even in those other performances.

Well, that was there last night. Yeah. I mean, if you go, you can go look at on YouTube, you can look at like Gordon Hayward, like his best plays in 2017 or something. He was a beast. Talk about we talked about Harris's versatility earlier. Hayward could do everything for that Utah team with his playmaking and his ability to drive to the rim, but pull up from anywhere as well. Right.

And his versatility on defense to Hayward was just a really good all-around player. There was a recklessness to how he played, and I mean that in a good way. I should say fearlessness. That when you see the old YouTube clips, you're like, oh, wow. This guy was like, he's going into three people trying to dunk on them.

Yeah, trying to dunk on people. Running off screens for lobs, like the play he got hurt on ultimately. I mean, he did that very often in Quinn Snyder's system for the Jazz. I thought that Golden State game, after that game, I was like, wow, this is going to take another year to come

back from this because he was such a shell of himself in that game. And then you see the Philly game last night and maybe that's a breakthrough. I think that's what this team needs because as you pointed out, his ball handling is basically the second ball handler for that team. last night and maybe that's a breakthrough. I think that's what this team needs because as you pointed out, the, his ball handling is basically the second ball handler for that team.

You'd think it's smart and Roger, but it's really not. It's Hayward's the guy who can, he can basically do anything. I thought if they made a trade deadline, it was going to be like a addition by subtraction move. We're basically just trade Roger with a pick to move up in the draft. Like flipping him for an asset

that maybe you would eventually try to use for AD. Right. And also just to narrow the rotation. Maybe they should have done that in October, November, December, maybe. The Kyrie stuff, I think it's really hurt this team, some of the stuff he said,

and I talked about in this podcast, just about the concept of leadership. And I just feel like he's done a bad job. Like if you're like, I'm the guy, he's done a bad job at being the guy. And I think, I think guys got worn out,

not just his dissertations on these guys don't understand what it takes and all that stuff, which are just like ridiculous. But you know, this is somebody that the season ticket holder thing that my dad went to when Kyrie's like, I'm going to be here the day before they had some, some dinner or something when he told everybody in the team that he was going to be staying with the Celtics. And now you fast forward three months and it's like, yeah, I don't know what's going to happen.

Not a great way to have a basketball team when you have that much uncertainty with your lead guy. It really does affect guys. He shouldn't have said that. That's a season ticket holder thing or whatever. You need to take that basic media approach like i'm gonna decide during the summer i'm just focusing on basketball say that in october that's what you have to do if you're katie or carrie or any of

these guys i think with kairi's leadership that was the the question when the trade was made it was a no-brainer trade to do that for boston it was about well what's kairi's leadership well what would that be like i, I think at the time, he talked about trying to learn how to become a leader. And that's something he's probably still trying to figure out. And he hasn't done a great job of it, of course. I think the- By the way, nobody learns how to be a leader,

just for the record. You're their leader. I think maybe there's a lane that you grow into, perhaps. And you still have to have it in you. He might have a short track as a leader. Al Horford's a leader. A leader by example. Yeah.

But just like good guy. He's all about team at all times. And when you're playing with a guy like that day in and day out, you just want to be a good teammate. To me, that's leadership. He doesn't have to do press conferences to talk about, hey guys, I'm the leader. But he's a lead by example guy who's a leader. That stuff a couple of weeks ago wasn't a good move. Of course.

But it wasn't the only time. He did it like four times during the year. It wasn't. It's funny. If you look at like the transcript of that whole quote, should have just cut that down to like one or two sentences and it would have been fine. But he went on for like two, three minutes just rambling and rambling. It's like, just say less as a leader especially especially in front of the media watching i think kairi is

spectacular to watch as an individual player much like harden is and some of these other guys like he's really amazing he's watching that guy day and day out is amazing he's one of the funnest players in the league to watch for many years now i'm not sure how he fits into a team framework where you have all of these talented dudes. And the thing that jumped out at me last night with Philly was how the ball was moving and how everybody was involved. And even like the fact that they had 112 points, but Smart and Rozier were five for 22. They didn't really play that. Other than Hayward, they didn't really play lights out. It wasn't like an amazing offense performance, but the ball was moving. They were getting good

shots. Everybody's playing hard. And I'd love to know if the reason was because Kyrie wasn't in there. And if Kyrie's out there, do guys naturally just kind of fade back because he's such a good offensive player. It's almost like you're like, oh, Kyrie's got this and you're not as aggressive. I think, but with Kyrie though, it's not like the ball doesn't move compared to other offenses. No, that's true. You know, it still moves. And last five minutes, not as much though. Of course.

But sometimes you need that at the end of the game. You need that superstar talent that can get you buckets at the end of a game. Like when you're in the playoffs, regular offenses just break down. They collapse when there's game planning game seven and it's it's like we talked about last time i think you mentioned how you wanted kairi to get more shots but i think that comes in the playoffs right now it's about just staying level and trying to maintain that ball movement offense and then in the playoffs that's when you may need him to take on a greater role. But my, my question, and I don't even really think this is Kyrie's fault. I think he's such a spectacular offensive player. It's almost like,

it's just an outcome of, it's a reality. You just kind of, when you have, when you're playing with somebody like that, you just kind of assume they're going to take care of stuff. And when he's not out there, it becomes a situation like the playoffs last year, like what we saw last night where everybody's going, I guess, step up. How are we going to get to 112 points? I got to really start attacking the rim now. And that's the part.

How does this team play like they did last night and move the ball like they did last night and play with the passion they played last night when Kyrie's also out there if they can unlock that this is the best team in the East and I have no idea if they can it may have to be like April 13th or or later like that's when the playoffs began like that that's what

it might have to be for this team just to all play with that level of effort with Kyrie like right like last night with Kyrie their backs against the wall against this new look Philly team. Of course, you would hope that they're going to fight the way that they did. But I get back to that Kyrie quote

after game 70. I think that's when if these issues persist, that's when or Hayward is still not the same guy that he was. If there's still all these questions after game 70, I think that's when

the conversation is about, well, Boston, maybe they're the fourth best team in the East. But if by that point, things seem to be there's still all these questions after game 70 i think that's when the conversation is about well boston maybe they're the fourth best team in the east but if by that point things seem to be at a higher level hayward looks better then they're they're one of the favorites just like people expected them the marcus morris quote was alarming that was any backtrack from it the next day i didn't mean the whole year i just meant recently it's like nah that's not really that quote that had you put up that instagram story of the SNL skit, correct? Yeah.

Of that dysfunctional family dinner? It actually kind of works. Yeah, yeah. Well, he's right because I watch the games and you watch a lot of them too. And it's like, there was a joylessness with this team a lot of the time that really didn't make sense.

I didn't, I noticed it when I went back early in the season and I saw them lose to Orlando and had really good seats and I saw them lose to Orlando. And I had really good seats and I could watch the body language and all that. And I was with my dad. And at that point, I was so bullish on the season. It was probably like the sixth, seventh game. And both of us were like, what's going on here?

Why does this team seem so unhappy? What's happening? Why isn't this team super happy? We have a, this is like, we're most talented team in the East. So they've never really been able to get over the hump. And I do think I've talked to a lot of people about it, trying to get answers. And one of the best theories I've heard was that if you have any basketball team, you need, you have like your talented guys, you have your younger guys, you have your glue guys. And the recurring theme I keep hearing is they're asking these young guys who haven't really accomplished anything significant as NBA players yet to be the glue guys.

So you're asking Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, who are still trying to learn who they are as basketball players and trying to be like, Hey, it'd be cool if I scored 40 points in a game and where it'd be cool if I made eight threes, like they don't know who they are yet. And you're just asking them to do all the dirty work and all the little things and defer to Kyrie.

And like fundamentally that's screwed up. Well, what do you think of that theory? Well, they did accomplish one thing last year that might've set the tone for this to happen. They went to the Eastern conference finals game seven, did accomplish one thing last year that might have set the tone for this to happen they went to the eastern conference finals game seven where they had a taste of being one of the guys

leading a team to great heights and then that's taken away i think maybe that was what ended up changing the mindset because i don't think it it's all about the individual person and whether they're able to accept that role or not i mean like this is an extreme example but it's not like kawaii leonard was handed the keys in san antonio he played that glue guy role and grew into a they're able to accept that role or not. I mean, like this is an extreme example, but it's not like Kawhi Leonard was handed the keys in San Antonio. He played that glue guy role and grew into a superstar. But you're also,

you know, Duncan Popovich infrastructure and Jimmy Butler, Paul George, I mean, but like there's other guys too on other teams, Paul George,

Jimmy Butler were role players first. Yeah. And then they grew into stars. I don't think that's necessarily. That's what I thought would happen with Jalen. And it might. I mean, it could.

Jalen's been better. He's been better since what was that? Five weeks? Early December, mid-December. He's been a lot better on both ends of the floor. I want to talk about Philly. We're going to take a quick break. Hey, if you're listening to this podcast,

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to this. He was always like a newspaper crossword guy, but now he's both. Now he's also an app guy. You can be like him. Download the New York Times crossword app. He's a two-time champ just in the last four months. Not of the crossword app, sports because the Red Sox won a World Series, the Patriots won a World Series. Anyway, the New York Times crossword app, it is at nytimes.com slash mini. We're talking about glue guys. And to me, this is the key for whatever happens with Philly because you have these five guys. For them to really, truly succeed, like to have the basketball. Tobias Harris having the best year of his career in the Clippers. They're running all kinds of plays through him.

He's getting a lot of shots. Now it's like there's only so many shots in a basketball game. And Bede's got to eat. Simmons likes to have the ball. Butler's probably happy in the 15 to 18 shot range. Harris is used to 18 shots from when he had the Clippers. JJ needs to come around the picks and get his threes off. I don't like the five guys together in a playoff series in crunch time

when it really turns into nut crunch time because I think it's going to be really hard for the five of them to get into a flow. So what am I missing? I think it's the same question that it was after the Butler trade. How do those main three coexist, Embiid, Simmons, and Butler? I think that's still the main question. I don't think Harris is necessarily much of a – You don't think Harris screws that up?

I don't. I think Harris is – so much of what he did with the Clippers was coming off ball, coming off screens, coming off triple handoffs. It wasn't like he was just isolating, running pick and roll after pick and roll. He did that, but he can also do other things like he has in the past as well. So I don't think Harris is necessarily the guy who could screw that up. But is he overqualified for that role? Like in the Boston game yesterday, he ended up taking the biggest three of the game. It's like, should he be taking the biggest three of the game? He very well might be overqualified for that role. Like in the Boston game yesterday, he ended up taking the biggest three of the game. It's like, should he be taking the biggest three of the game?

He very well might be overqualified for that fourth guy role. Yeah. He could be, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have an overqualified player in that role. I mean, I personally think that they know Butler's not coming back. We've heard a lot of inside rumblings about that's not the happiest situation and that Harris was going to be, he'll eventually be the third guy and they're hoping they can figure this out for this year. For me, it's like,

here's how you figure it out. Butler has to be like, I'm good with nine to 10 shots a game and I will guard the other team's best player and I will do all the gritty work and I'll do whatever it takes to win. I personally don't think he's wired that way. I think he feels like he's one of the best 13 guys in the league. He's not going to be the glue guy. If he feels that way, that's fine, as long as he's willing to accept his role.

I still think what it comes down to is, how does Brett Brown evolve this offense? They rarely ever ran pick and roll until Butler had that complaint on December 30th. Since then, they've run a little bit more pick and roll until Butler had that complaint in December 30th. Since then, they've run a little bit more pick and roll with Butler, but really not the rest of the roster. I think if they're able to implement an effective pick and roll offense with Butler handling. You really think Brett Brown can do this at this point of the season? It's hard. That's what needs to happen over the All-Star break.

I want to see if post All-Star they come out running more pick and roll. I still think putting Ben Simmons in a screening role where he can short roll down the lane like Draymond Green and just pick a part of defense or score or having Embiid pick and popping. I think the amount of versatility, if you're putting the ball in Harris's or Butler's hand in the pick and roll just creates a lot of issues for defense. The issue is it comes down to, again, how will floor spacing be with Embiid, Butler, and Simmons? Simmons has only shot one real three in his career. Embiid is a 30% three-point shooter, and Butler is not a significant spot-up shooting threat. That's where I wonder, how do you find the best combinations?

What are the best matchups? I still think Butler running more pick and roll Simmons using that dream on Blake playmaking role in the half court is how you can maybe best maximize these guys in the fourth quarter, rest of the game. That's when you let Simmons dominate. Do you see that clip on LeBron was playing like 15 feet off him. I mean,

that's the way teams are going to play him in the playoffs. Cause he's in less and he proves that he can be a, and be level three point. Sure. Like 30%. That's not happening. way teams are going to play him in the playoffs. Because unless he proves that he can be a Embiid level three-point shooter, like 30%. Oh, that's not happening. It's not going to happen. I think when Simmons posts up. We already know what he needs to do.

He's a switch hand. I know. That's your thing. I am terrified when Simmons is posting up within like six feet of the basket. Even if it's eight feet, it goes wrong. Because then he shoots that terrible turn around. The fade. Yeah, that shot's awful.

But I like when he's low. He's got to get to his right-hand hook. That's a good shot for him. Right-hand hook, which, you know, if you put him on the block where he can turn into the paint with the right-hand hook, but then if I'm playing D, I can't really double him because they have

so many shooters. I guess you could double him with Embiid's guy, but the other guys you can't really double him because they have so many shooters. I guess you could double him with them beads guy, but the other guys you can't double off of, and he can turn in the land, that right-hand hook basically against anybody shorter than Marcus Morris. Well, I feel like that's their best offense, but I,

when I watched the Sixers, I'm always like, this, this, I just would love to see this in somebody else's hands. I'm not a Brett Brown believer at all. Well, I'm not necessarily a believer either. I think the fact they don't run enough pick and roll as is

is really surprising. With the personnel that they have, it is just perfect for a heavy pick and roll offense. Yeah, especially now. ESPN had that piece over the weekend about how Harris's season took off because the Clippers were just all of a sudden running him on all these picks and how good he was shooting the picks.

Either as the ball handler or the guy screening. I just think all these guys can do that. They can be used in either role. So you think about if teams switch the matchups you can get, the difficulties it could cause for the defense if they're dropping on pick and rolls against certain guys or hedging on others. I just think the pick and roll for them could be devastating with that five would you run it with with harris with harris is the pick and roll ball handler yeah could be

indeed could be simmons or you could even do it with butler if you're trying to get a mismatch for somebody would be fun yeah i just i just think those guys can work together but the offense needs to be tweaked and to your point about the post-up, it's not just scoring for Simmons either. It's the playmaking. I mean, think about the post in today's league, the way the Warriors use Durant and Draymond Green. You want a bucket from KD because of who he is as a scorer,

but a lot of the time he's just looking to pass first and then looking to score. And that's Kevin Durant. Simmons with his passing and vision, that might be the most valuable tool for him in half-court offenses where there's other three-point shooters around him. It could work really

well in Philadelphia if they make the right tweaks. I wish he was on a different team. I'm not even saying that as a Celtics fan, just as a basketball fan. I wish he was on a team that used him the way Milwaukee uses Giannis, where it's just like, we're going to play with a crazy pace. You're gonna have the ball all the time. And every other person on this team has been picked to make you succeed. And maybe that'll

happen three years down the line. But part of the problem for me is, you know, I think like ultimately his destiny would be like how the Lakers use magic in 87, 88, 89, where he was like, he's running the brakes, he's doing all that stuff. And then the half court kind of becomes, you know, he's down in the low post. Things are running through him and his passing. I want to see that version of Ben Simmons at some point in my life. He's only like 22. So I'm sure we have plenty of time. There's been hints of it. I just want to see a greater volume with him. It's tough to do with Embiid, though.

Yeah. I mean, the Lakers worked it out with Magic and Kareem, but it really took until Kareem was like 40 and kind of falling apart as an asset for Magic to kind of grab the car keys from him. Milwaukee, really quickly. I love the Meritage trade.

How can you not, really? It's perfect for them. I said this last week. I thought that's what Phil, I would have, if I'm Phil, I'd rather keep my assets and just get Meritage. And I feel like I have enough and I'm getting a lot of the same stuff from him. Butler, I mean, Harris is almost like, I mean, he brings so much to the table, but they didn't really need all the things he brings to the table this year. You know, they might need it next year. Anyway, Milwaukee, best player in the conference. They're going to have home court.

I think they're going to be really tough in Milwaukee. They were good in the playoffs last year in Milwaukee. They get good crowds. All kinds of three-point shooters. The X factor for me is Bledsoe, who has been good this year. I still don't trust him. Maybe their second-best player.

I still don't trust him. Because ultimately, you're down 3-2 in a series in Toronto, and there's four minutes left, and the other team is just sagging on Giannis, making it impossible. And it's like, at some point, that's when your point guard's trying to create stuff. I just don't trust them.

Maybe that's where you do what we just talked about with Simmons, where you're posting Giannis, which they've done at times this season with surrounding him with shooters. It's amazing watching this Milwaukee team versus the last couple of years, just how different they are. The system, they just get so many layups and so many three-pointers we were talking about last year on this podcast it's like oh my

god this is like the worst version of all this yeah i mean like last year they could only play they could only have spacing with yannis at the five yeah and now like that that was unsustainable because with yannis playing him at center against other big men you just can't do it there's not enough size in the front court your rebounding is horrible but with Giannis now you could put him like the three or four uh with Brooke Lopez Ilyasova Miritich these big floor spaces that allow you to play with size and space for him it's it's really they made the right personnel moves to put this team in this position and then Budenholzer just the tweaks he's made to this system on both ends but particularly on offense,

it's remarkable the leap that they took from one year to the next. It's really kind of frightening to me as a Celtics fan because this might be the 1-4 matchup. They have multiple guys who just killed the Celtics. Mertic is like a Celtic killer. Brooke Lopez had huge games against the Celtics. Even before he could shoot threes.

Yeah. On the nets would just single-handedly wreck the Celtics. And then Giannis has always been a problem. He's Giannis, yeah. Middleton is somebody that, by the end of that playoff series last year, I felt like he was like one of the 20 best players in the league. He can heat up.

That scares me more than anything, that 1-4 matchup where you just have a bunch of, first of all, they'd have home court. You'd have to win a game seven there. But then they'd have the best player in the series. I never liked that. And I feel like Giannis has another level to go to when we get to the playoffs because his athleticism and intensity now, even in the regular season, is really unusual.

It reminds me of LeBron last decade and LeBron's first MVP season, 09 maybe, where he's just playing really hard. He's such a good athlete. And you turn on league pass, you're like, I know if I turn on this game, that guy's going to be playing hard. That goes up a level in the playoffs. I don't know what he's capable of.

Could he go 30, 15, and 7 in the playoffs? With more minutes, more shots. Yeah, played 40 minutes a game. And his efficiency too. I mean, he's if not the best finisher around the rim, he's one of the best. He's in the top percentile around the rim. He's one of the best. He's in the top percentile around the rim. He's one of the best around the rim guys we've had.

Maybe ever. Yeah. Because it's not just like he just dunks on guys with his right hand when he has space, when he has a lane. He can dunk on dudes with either hand at any angle, anywhere on the court, no matter what move happened before it.

And he has touches well around the rim. He's unbelievable. His offensive rebounding late in games where there's a shot and it's bouncing around the rim and he puts out one of his alien arms and just flicks it back toward him. And it's like, he's seven feet away from the basket. How did he do that? He's the best player in the conference.

Greek freak really a perfect nickname when he entered the league, huh? 100%. So for me, like if I'm a Bucs fan, first of all, the Bucs stats, have you seen some of the numbers with them? Which ones are we talking about? There's so many impressive numbers. Just like the point differential.

You could make a case through 55 games or whatever that just stats only. I'm not talking about eye testing and that stuff, that this is one of like the best 15 teams of all time. I know it's not. Just statistically.

Yeah, statistically. Net rating, best ever net rating. There's a lot of good numbers in their favor that resemble teams like the 08 Celtics. And I think they're actually going to get better. And then they have the best player in the league, or the best player in the conference, maybe the best player in the league. And to play Boston in round one,

or round two would be great for them. And then they have Philly and Toronto beat the shit out of each other in that round two. And then probably play Toronto. I think that's, if I'm them, I don't want to play Toronto. I think that's... If I'm them, I don't want to play Toronto. That's out of everyone. They can't match up against anybody, though.

They can take on different forms. They can play smaller if they need to or bigger. That would be my choice for the team not to play if I'm them. Because you got the Kawhi. You have the Gasol thing, potentially. You have Low Larry just being just taking the Bledsoe matchup personally there's there's little advantages

for Toronto's depth as well yeah too I think that Toronto Milwaukee matchup I think those are no stretch to say that are the two best teams in the East right now I'm curious by the end of the season entering the playoffs is there anything that can happen for Toronto, Boston, or Philadelphia that can change your mind about Milwaukee being the favorite in the East?

I would say, I think Philly is what they are at this point. They're going to look great. I think they're one of those teams that's going to look awesome when it's 140 to 122. They have room to improve, though. They have room to improve. Post-All-Star. I still think they're going to be up and down.

They're going to have a couple games where you room to improve. Post-All-Star. I still think they're going to be up and down. They could be. They're going to have a couple games where you're like, oh, man, what happened there? And the Jimmy Butler thing is the all-time wild card. Celts, I just don't trust them. Because it's not just Hayward. It's also the Kyrie factor that you talked about earlier. There's a malaise with this team that I just find it hard to believe

it's just going to go away after the all-star break. And it does not exist with Milwaukee. It does not exist with Milwaukee. Milwaukee feels like one of those Boston teams with Isaiah Thomas in terms of the spirit and camaraderie that they play with. 100%. Everybody's happy to be there and they have a good coach and their fans are fired up. The odds right now, Toronto is plus 225, Milwaukee is plus 240, Philly is plus 280,

and Boston's three to one. That's ridiculous. You shouldn't have four favorites that are all three to one or under. What's interesting to me is I wouldn't want to play the Nets in round one. They're tough. You could beat them, but that's a lot of work.

They're the ultimate example of the ringer curse. Oh my God. Since your tweet, they're one of the best teams in the league yeah well they were blowing all these games in the fourth quarter but I mean the big thing is Russell has turned into I don't know what he is I don't know what the ceiling is for him now well he looks more like the guy that he was

at Ohio State yeah I think when it comes to like doing the draft stuff you know the draft guy that we have coming out next month i think we're doing an early version but with the draft guide like scouting players i always wonder like when's the point they're going to start resembling the guy that they were in college we're there right now with russell where he has these spectacular nights playmaking sometimes some not so special ones but solid ones and the scoring ability from the perimeter that's all there like check check that has translated at this point it's about improving the weaker areas of his game he still is a weak defender he still does not get to the rim often he still does not draw many fouls those are areas that were areas of the free throw attempts is the

red flag for me i i don't know if this still stands true but i looked a couple weeks back and of guys to attempt over 17 shots per game he had the lowest free throw rate ever yeah of guys to attempt that volume of shots so but i mean a lot of improvement to do in that area to become a guy who like with harden like harden he's not going to become james harden but harden can can get to the line get to the rim at any time. Russell doesn't have that area of his game when the shot's not falling. I think what's been special with him is his ability to create good shots

from 25 feet. For himself and for others. And for others, but like he's got that down and that seems to be an increasingly important thing, but it's interesting. I think he's a max guy. You think his age and what we've seen,

and even the Toronto game the other night, he's just going toe-to-toe with Toronto at the end of those games, making big shots. He's done that the whole season. With his age, and he could definitely be the focal point of an offense, I feel like. So you hear the Knicks, it's like KD and Kyrie or KD and Kemba. For me, it's like, why not KD and Russell?

And how would those two work together? And would you rather bet on a kid who's 22 or 23? Who hasn't had surgery on a kneecap. Yeah, versus Kyrie, who'll be 27 next year. Kyrie's still young, though. Yeah.

But he's had a lot of miles on him already. And then Kemba, who is what he is. I think he is pretty much a fixed rate at this point. But would it be better to roll the dice with Russell and hope that three years from now, he's 25% better than he is now? I think he's the most interesting free agent this summer. I think, to your point about him being a max player,

I'm not sure everybody in the league would agree with that because of his weakness on defense. But the thing is he's going to get max money. It's happening. He is. And I'll be curious. People have cap space. It'll be interesting to see what the nets do.

You think they match. It seems like they don't have another choice with the way he plays. And plus with Russell, he can play against play with their other ball handlers, Karis Levert, Dinwiddie when he's back, who they got for a team-friendly contract within his role. KOC, my worst case scenario is Brooklyn beating the Celtics in round one.

Would you just be like, what a way for the decade to end after the greatest trade of the decade, and we just pillage their lottery picks, and then somehow they beat us at the end of it? That's a fun scenario to think about. I would probably have to put my dad in a, in a nursing home at that point. It might just be it.

You just might have to be fed and taken to the bathroom by a nurse. Cause that'll be all it takes. Followed by Kyrie leaving. Cause with Boston, they have a crossroads this summer where they're either going to retain an elite player and Kyrie Irving and trade for a Hall of Famer Anthony Davis or that elite player is just going to leave

and they're going to go back to having this young, nice, fun team but that doesn't have a real shot at the finals. Yeah. I'm on the fence with Kyrie. Half of me is just spiteful and wants to drive him to the airport. So, interesting.

The other half is like, let's make this work. I mean, I think you have to drive him to the airport. So interesting. The other half is like, let's make this work. I mean, I think you have to try to make it work. Listen, I'm a spiteful guy and I'm used to winning championships, KFC. We're on a run right now. Red Sox Pats have high expectations. I don't like the whole leadership. I just can't get over it.

Just shut up and play basketball. Stop. You're not a leader. Just shut up and play basketball. Stop. You're not a leader. Just stop. Last thing you think, you think the Warriors can go 16 and 0 playoffs? I would, I would bet against that. However, you know, I posed that question in our Slack the other day. Like, what would the odds be if the Warriors were to go 16 and 0?

Like how, what kind of odds could you get right now? Cause if they're good odds, that might be something to bet on. Because I think you look at the way Draymond played last night. I think it's impossible. It's improbable. Here's why I think it's impossible. There's so many threes in these games now

that you're just basically defying the odds that in 16 games, the other team's never going to go 22 for 34 from three or some crazy thing. That's why I think it's impossible. I certainly think they have the talent to do it, but I don't think with the amount of threes people take now, the variance is just too crazy.

And that's what I mean. It's such a low possibility. What kind of odds can you get on it happening where they just get on it happening where they just get on this run where everybody's playing at their best unless next time we do this pot

I'll have an answer for this because I think with dream I would say it's like 50 to 1 75 to 1 if you want to put a little money down it's pretty good every home playoff game they have they'll be like minus 700 minus 600 600, minus 500. So if you figure it out that way. What are you working on heading into the All-Star break?

Well, right. I mean, I'm working on some things that I'll try to work on at All-Star weekend. Just planning ahead on that. And we'll figure it out after that. I intentionally didn't talk about Zion in this podcast. Zion is special. Best prospect in seven years. Since AD. Most exciting. Most athletic. I guess Zion special best, best prospect in seven years since ad most exciting,

most athletic, most talented. I'm all of the above. Next time we do this, I will be ready to have the, is he the best prospects since LeBron conversation over ad over Katie vaulted over ad into it. I don't know about over Katie because Katie's scoring from the perimeter that he had back then.

If you're just talking about warts, Zion is like wartless. KD at least had the whole, God, he's so skinny. Is he ever going to put on weight? It was at least something that people remember him playing two guard for the Sonics.

Yeah. It was like, ah, is he ever going to be able to put on the weight? He's such a strange body. People. I personally was all in the whole time, but I have not seen any case against Zion now.

He has this unassailable basketball resume. Everything about him is a 10. The only real knock is the jumper. But I think with him, with his projected role in the NBA, it's not a significant weakness. I like his jumper. It's above average for his position and his role. Everything else is either very good or great or elite.

He's going to change one lucky franchise this year. And you like Morant too, right? John Morant's interesting. I don't know how much I love him yet, but I do like him. I think with his playmaking and his athleticism, you talk about Zion, the athlete that he is. Morant is that in point guard form. He just pops.

I think with Morant... He's like Westbrook-level athlete for a point guard. I think with Morant, the question about Zion's jumper applies to Morant as well, but it's a greater area where you would like to have a plus jumper for a guard, a perimeter player, and Morant, whereas Zion, you can use him in literally any role.

He can be your playmaker with the ball in his hands. He can be used as a screener. He can do anything in the half court for you. Defensively, he's versatile. He can be Draymond on defense. He plays with such effort and intensity, and that's the thing that's been,

I think entering the season, obviously there was two things everybody knew even casual fans who didn't really see much besides uh highlights that he's an amazing dunker and that he clearly plays with effort right yeah but i i think seeing it on the defensive end of the floor at the level that we have and And how hard he tries every play. It's like even- I love that guy. It's like even more than I think you would have expected. Nevermind everything else that he does on offense. The playmaking, ball handling, it's special.

You read about any of these dudes and it's like, who really genuinely gives a shit at all times? Those are the guys that always become the best. Zion seems to be on that list. He seems- The cool thing though is we have two guys in this draft that when they go to a team, that team immediately becomes fun. Whatever their ceiling is, like, whatever team gets Moran,

it's like, that's cool. He's on Orlando. That's fun. I'll watch Orlando now. And I think it's rare to have two guys in one draft. A Moran faults backcourt. Not a lot of shooting. Faults.

The process 2.0. I really like that trade for Orlando. Me too. It's worth the risk. He would have been on my team. It's a low risk with a high reward. Them or Phoenix should have been battling for him. KFC, a pleasure as always.

We'll see you in the ring. We're here on the Ringer NBA show. Tuesdays with Chris Vernon and then Fridays with Charks and Danny. He's out of his mind. How did Danny become a Raptors fan, by the way? He went to Toronto. He went to Toronto. But that's it.

He just likes the food there and he enjoys- Fell in love with the food. Felt like home. God, he's Danny for hire. That's what we should, you should call him Danny for hire in that podcast. KFC, thank you. Thank you, Bill. All right, coming up, we're going to talk to Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion about Joe Flacco and the Knicks and most important Game of Thrones odds that have come out for who's going to sit on the throne at the end of season eight.

Wanted to mention a couple Ringer podcast things, though. Some of the newer podcasts that we have, you probably know about The Big Picture. We've had that one running for a couple months now with Sean Fantasy. Oscar season, this is kind of the wheelhouse for the big picture. Some interviews with great filmmakers as well as Ringer staffers and a whole bunch of things. Top five Steven Soderbergh movies last week. Check that out.

Check out Tea Time on Fridays on Channel 33. It's a little celebrity gossip. It is my daughter's hands down favorite Ringer podcast now. So check that one out, especially if you have kids, maybe throw that one at them. 13-year-old girls, it's their wheelhouse. Bachelor Party, heating up with Julia Lipman as well. Fairway Rolling, Joe House's golf podcast.

Just put up another one this week. And then winging it, Vince Carter, Kent Bazemore, Annie Finberg, which was our new basketball podcast edition. And then the recapables, True Detective, wrapping up pretty soon. So if you want to catch up on that, check all of that out on the Ringer Podcast Network. All right, let's bring in Mallory and Jason.

What a special day here. The Binge Mode crew is here. Jason Stepsio, Mallory Rubin. Not that she didn't already have a hop in her step because we're going to talk Game of Thrones odds for season eight. I asked you to come on this pod yesterday. I had no idea it was going to be Joe Flacco day. You had no idea.

I had no idea. When you said farewell to me yesterday, that today when I saw you, it would be one of the best days of my life. I walked into the cafeteria, saw Mally Rubin from across the way, standing under the television that was playing ESPN and the news of Fly West Trade. And there was a glow coming off her.

She was pumping her fist, extremely excited. Overjoyed, folks. I've been waiting for it for years. I've never seen anybody bring a Super Bowl and more joy to a human being who then turned on them completely and totally like they were a terrorist. Drastic mischaracterization of all the facts of my life and Joe Flacco's life. He was on a Super Bowl winning team. That's true. He's the greatest four game run in the history of the playoffs.

Bill, you know where one of those games was? It was in Denver. And guess what? I'm glad that those Denver fans got to see that pass to Jacoby Jones. And I'm glad that they now get to watch Joe Flacco every Sunday instead of me. However, I feel compelled to note the irony. I am married to a Denver Broncos fan. Oh, so he's still in your life.

Which means that Joe Parker is still in my life. He's still hanging around. Still on my television. Or this is just 2019. Just you're cleaning out all the men who've been in your life this decade. Maybe he's next. Jon Snow is next. All the men who have meant anything to you by 2019 might be a clean slate.

Jason, me. We might all be out. I refuse to ever say goodbye to Jorah or Jon Snow. But Adam, I hope you're listening. The Keenum Flacco QB platoon. Wow. Keenum's got to be on the way out. I mean, there's a whole conversation to have about whether Jon Elway knows what he's doing.

This is a very puzzling move. So I was saying earlier, there's certain people that they win a title and it becomes hard to really criticize them in every sport. Right. And it's almost like they become, there's like a caveat. But I still think he's one of those people that he's terrible, but he happened to win a title. He did.

It's one of those. Baltimore fans, did they ever, was there ever a moment where there was like a honeymoon after the Super Bowl? You're like, you know what, Flacco sucks, but. Okay, two answers to the question. Sure, yes. However, you also have to keep in mind that Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with the Ravens

and then wasn't on the team the next year. Proud tradition in Baltimore of saying farewell to the quarterback who happened to win a Super Bowl with the Ravens and then wasn't on the team the next year. Proud tradition in Baltimore of saying farewell to the quarterback who happened to win a Super Bowl. So I don't think there was any, well, oh my God, this is inconceivable. How could you even conceive of it? However, I think most people, yours truly included, appreciated what Joe Flacco did for the team for a very long time. And then as rational human beings who happen to know how to not only parse

the data and the numbers of a contract, but also watch football games with our eyeballs. Yeah. Could say that the money hit on his most recent contract and the way that he was playing was a separate thing to consider totally independent of the Superbowl. Those are different things. It was a catastrophic contract. Yeah totally independent of the Super Bowl. Those are different things. It was a catastrophic contract.

Yeah. Well, I mean, after Lamar Jackson's amazing playoff game, the writing was on the wall for Joe, and Lamar went five for 28 at nine interceptions. Bill, I don't remember the uproar of put in the backup quarterback for Jared Goff at halftime tweets and slacks. Where was all that? Who was the Rams backup quarterback?

I don't even know who that person is. Give Lamar time. Lamar is going to be a special player. I believe I'm all in. I believe too. Yeah. The thing is. I'm in.

He just sucked in that playoff game. It's fine. He was wonderful in the final few minutes when they actually let him throw the football and try to make plays. In garbage time. Did you watch the Super Bowl? Almost came back and won the game. A game in which they made no adjustments after playing the Chargers a couple weeks prior.

Did you see our lord and football savior Tom Brady win his sixth Super Bowl? Here we go. Oh my God. Amazing how we're right back here already. 3-3, 10 minutes left. You know what's going to happen now. It's Brady time. We did know it was going to happen, all of us.

And that's why we're all so unhappy all the time. At some point, everyone here will learn to appreciate excellence. At some point. And consistency and just superiority. This is horrendous. This is a very Cersei-esque vibe from Bill here. Oh, and before we get to Thrones. Between this and KOC and Slack, it's very, very tough.

We're going to talk about Thrones, but I wanted to mention Jason Concepcion. For the first time I've known him, the Knicks are actually doing the right thing. Yeah. 17 straight losses. Franchise record, baby. Let's go.

Who's your tanking LVP right now? Who's the most important person in this tanking process for you? Most important person in the tank. Who's the guy you're relying on when it's a one point game with a minute left and you're like, don't worry, we got this guy. He's going to screw this up for us.

You know, it's kind of, this is uncharitable. That would at this point be Dennis Smith Jr. this is uncharitable that would at this point be dennis smith jr that's uncharitable because he's been i'm really liking the potential that he has and he's displaying some um really athletic moves and some skills that um i think he can build on but in a vacuum with this team it's like having that guy go like, I'm going to take this over. I got this. I got this is kind of the best case scenario for a tank, considering the pieces around him. Also, DeAndre Jordan, who, you know, very gregarious guy.

Yeah. Great teammate. Doesn't his teammates love him. Doesn't mind losing. Doesn't mind losing. This is really an upbeat. Just want to make sure the checks are cashing. Just make sure those things are cashing. Doesn't mind losing. Doesn't mind losing. This is really an upbeat. Just wants to make sure the checks are cashing. Just make sure those things are cashing.

Doesn't really move, especially on the defensive end. He's a 42-year-old man, but he's actually 30. The most excitement I saw from him all season for the Mavs and for the Knicks is him celebrating Mario Hazonia's baseline dunk on Marquise Chris. That's a bust on bust crime, folks. Where he just jumped up off the bench, jumped up on a teammate's back and was ran across the floor when Hazonia was coming out and hugged him.

I was like, man, look at that energy. Look at that crisp movement from DeAndre Jordan. Wow. It's great. I'm glad that he's only displaying that on the sidelines, not on the floor, where it might affect the outcome of a game. Has Dennis Smith Jr. sent any tweets recently about slanging that wood? Nothing about the wood.

Slanging that wood. Slanging that wood in his pants. Slanging that wood. My second favorite basketball tweet of all time. First one obviously being Ray Allen thinking he was DMing somebody, but actually tweeting things that he was going to do to her genitals. Very tough. Incredible.

And then deleting it, let's say he got hacked. My favorite moment of the decade. When the Knicks, when we have the lottery, which I think is mid-May. Yeah. What do we do from a content standpoint from the ringer? Like, clearly we have to have all of our Knick fan employees in the same room. We need to watch them crumble when they realize they're not getting Zion. Or if they get Zion, it's like the end of Rocky III.

Like, it would be incredible. Yeah, just like, da-da-da! Would that be the happiest you've ever been about anything? I won't. My body won't know what to do if that happens. Because you've had no. The Knicks. No joy.

Their title was 73. You weren't alive yet. And then it's like, you know, when have they haven't won. They haven't been in the playoffs in a while. And even then it's like they haven't been to this. They've been into the second round of the playoffs once in like 20 years so we need this we haven't had a number one

pick since Ewing so the greatest moment since of your lifetime basically for the Knicks are the LJ four point shot winning the lottery with Ewing beating the Celtics in the Boston Garden game five right when Ewing, winning the lottery with Ewing. Yeah. Beating the Celtics in the Boston Guard in game

five. Yeah. Right. When Ewing took the three that went in and stuff. Beating the Pacers in game seven. Yeah. And probably a couple other ones, but not a lot the last 20 years. Not anything that's real that was foundational. I see a drama

that's getting fired. That was great. Linsan insanity is honestly the peak insanity i would say is the best that's the best i felt about the knicks that was like something i could hold on to that felt real that was the best three weeks of my life also maybe the greatest asian american sports moment of all time maybe i mean it's certainly the one that's remembered the most fondly. When he. I know it's like, I talked to Chang and Cho about it once. We're having dinner and Cho doesn't know anything about basketball.

He's like, that was the greatest thing that's ever happened. There's two moments that was like, I could die right now. When he hit the game winner against Toronto, which is the true start of Linsanity. That's when it started. Yeah. And then when he put Derek Fisher in the blender during that game against the Lakers at MSG, where he scored 38, that I could, I just could not even handle the energy that was coursing

through my body. I remember, I think we were at Grantland. We had Jay Caspian Kang, I think at MSG for the Lakers game, or he's in one of them. I'm pretty sure it was the Lakers game. And it was like the Venn diagram for every single thing Kane cared about to write about. It was unbelievable. It was, we got like three weeks of content on Grantland

just every day, Lynn related. And then all of a sudden at that game when Miami killed him right before the all-star break. Yeah, they really exposed him. And they were like, let's just take this guy out. He's not a good enough athlete. The energy in New York City was unbelievable.

It's like nothing I've ever experienced. Where you're walking down the street and you look up like into apartment buildings and you can see TVs that are like on MSG, like on,

and you just can't wait to get home to watch the game. That's Jason's version of most New Yorkers walking on the high line and watching people fuck in the standard hotel windows. That's Jason's version of that New Yorkers walking on the High Line and watching people fuck in the standard hotel windows. That's Jason's version of that.

That's a real thing, actually. That's a real thing that happens. If Carmelo came back for the last 10 games of this next season, are you happy, sad, delighted? Does he help the tank game? What happens? Farewell Carmelo tour? You know, bring him home. Bring him home. Bring him home. Ariana Lenarski, who is our

tarot reader for NBA Desktop, actually did pull some cards that seem to suggest that he might come either to the Nets or the Knicks. So it's in play. I love the tarot reader. Incredible. Our own Sybil Trelawney?

She's an incredible person with you know, she can really just tap into the universe's mysteries. Has she ever pulled a lightning struck tower card? No, but let me tell you, and this is real. Bill, that's a Harry Potter reference. There's a lot of tension when you ask, like we asked when we asked about Ennis Cantor, which is like actually like a life and death issue. Like I was like, oh, my God, like if I see like a grim reaper card here, I may, we may just have to cut this and not do it. Like you, I, when she pulled the three of cups,

when I asked like if the Knicks would get the top pick, I should, should not by heart almost exploded. What would happen? Could we do a thing where she reads nephew Kyle? Oh yeah. There's no question. We could do a thing wherehew Kyle. That would be some of the best content we've produced all year. We're going to take a quick break, then we're going to talk about Thrones. The new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done, whether you're on the field or running a business.

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all your passions with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. Thrones. Yeah. I don't know if you know, but the show's wrapping up. We're aware. This is it. We're aware. I'm actually worried about both of you.

Concerning times. This would be the equivalent for me if this was the last NBA season ever. This is it. I never get to watch basketball again. What am I going to do? There's the spinoff. Too much pressure on the spinoff already.

I think that's a good thing oh i think that's a good thing yeah i think that's a good thing gotta keep the standards high yes and also not to get too sentimental and existential immediately but i think we would agree that one of the things that's so special about this story and a lot of the stories that really unite a lot of people is they never really end right this will be there forever there forever. Sure. The, oh my God, this is the last, like one of the last remaining bits of monoculture, the last thing that you, you can't DVR, you have to watch on time or you won't be participating in the conversation in the moment that will end. But this is a story that people are going to be talking about and sharing

and forging communities around forever. And hopefully we will get another book at some point. George. I think George has wins coming. I'm on record as saying, I think he gets wins out. I think that happens. And I think that will sustain the family. Somebody get,

send George some drugs. Send him some Adderall at least. I worry about his ticker, honestly, at his age, if he starts in with the Adderall at this point. What's your fear factor with one being this is going to go great and 10 being the last season of loss on a scale of one to 10

for your fear factor for this season letting you down in some way? I mean, considering the topic we're about to talk about and some of the odds that we've seen from Vegas, I have a high level of concern. High level of concern? I of concern i'm concerned like an eight and a half i i wouldn't put it that high i would say like a solid seven ten is the entire i'm gonna enjoy it no matter what yeah let me just say that um but you know like sick am i in the same room as a sick person right now oh yeah oh yeah. Oh, God. Kyle, you're sick? Yeah.

Oh, my God. This is a disaster. Sorry, I'm coming to work, guys. Jesus. Did that get the slack? No. Kyle. Oh, my God. Oh, man.

You have a stoke balloon you're sick, bro. Sorry. Continue. Jesus. Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm going to love it. There's virtually nothing. Fucking nephew.

There's nothing that the show could do that would make me hate it. But, you know, like, there's certain choices that there's certain things you'd love to see and certain things that you wouldn't like to see. So, yeah, I'm concerned about them fumbling it to an extent. Nothing will be worse than the Lost cast finding out

that they were in purgatory the whole time. So, okay, this might shock you to hear. I'm slightly afraid to even say this out loud. You liked it. Yeah, I still kind of ride for the end of Lost. And so that will lead into my next statement, which is even if it's disappointing, it's still going to be special.

And I think when I am this invested in something, and I think when a lot of people are this invested in something, it cuts both ways. On the one hand, people have obsessed over every, parsed every single aspect of the story, obsessed over it. Every theory that you could possibly think of is out there, which means that every possible outcome, every possible outcome is something that people have considered. And so there's the aspect of whether it will just be an ending that satisfies people or disappoints people. What that even means at this point in

the story when subverting expectations was part of what made Game of Thrones special. Do we want to subvert expectations at the end or do we want a happy ending? What do people even want? And that varies person to person. And so whether the particular end game and whatever an end game even is in a story with this many characters and this many plot lines is satisfying to each of us personally, I still think that this experience has been so special and it's one of the defining stories of our time. How bad can it really be? How bad can it really be? That's of course there are things to be concerned about.

Right. I think those are fair points. There's such a strong foundation that has been built to this point. Yeah. This is a tight, a titanic achievement in pop culture. Yeah. So it's like, all right, they still have the most talent in the league. What could really go wrong? What could really, we've, and we've, you know, we've been doing our rewatch and it's like, all right, they still have the most talent in the league. What could really go wrong?

What could really, we've, and we've, you know, we've been doing our rewatch and it's, it is really, it's amazing how, how the seasons, they, they hold up. Season one is incredible. I'm at the end of season two now. It's incredible. So great stuff. The one thing that's really changed and all indications seem to be that this is six episodes, but each one is basically a movie. Right.

So they're doing about 10 hours of content over six episodes. Why not just do 10 episodes that are one hour of content? I don't know. I mean, last season was only seven episodes, you know, so that trend began already. And some of them are longer. But, well, you see Weiss at the basketball game? Baseball, yeah. Can't you ask him?

Our season starts in two weeks. I'll wait until he's groggy at 7.45 in the morning and find out. My guess would be they probably only wanted to do so many episodes, but then as they were doing them,

probably wanted to load stuff in and kind of got out of hand. Just was weird though. It's weird to go from one hour shows to now movies for the last season. Yeah. I think part of it is probably about what is going to be in each of these episodes. You know, we can expect a lot of battles. We have two great wars, right?

The war between the living and the dead, and then the war between the humans, the various houses, you know, Cersei against, presumably, Jon and Dany and whatever those respective contingents look like. They're going to want to build not only, I assume, the halves of the season, but each episode around

some sort of massive set piece. And so to go with a more cinematic approach, I think makes sense. Also, on the one hand, there are an unbelievable amount of unanswered questions, which is exciting. There's a lot of stuff that we still have to find out.

But also, think of how many characters have been killed off, right? Think of how the cast and the world, you know, the globe of Game of Thrones has shrunk. We're ultimately dealing with a pretty contained set of people and plot points at this point. And so to put all those people in a couple places and say we've got six weeks we're figuring it all out of course i wish there were more i wanted to go on forever but i understand the logic behind it also they want to

make star wars right will you cry at the end oh i'm gonna be a fucking you're gonna be on tv you're gonna be on the our twitter show yeah i know be on TV. You're going to be on our Twitter show. Yeah, I know. That sounds like a sociological experiment putting you on right immediately after the last show. I'm going to be- You might even be medicated. I'm going to be an emotional wreck. I mean-

It's going to be a mess. Not even the end. I think every step along the way. If Ghost, my favorite direwolf, dies, I will not be capable of forming a coherent thought. I don't know what I'm going to do out there. I think after announcing the death of Sir Pounce, which was completely unnecessary

and honestly very, very aggressive, I think, I just, I hope that Ghost stays with us. When is the last episode? Well, the first episode is April 14th, Sunday, April 14th. So six weeks after that. So that's like- Memorial Day, right? 14th, 21st, 28th. No, that's like right around the lottery. That could be like the most exciting week of your life. I will need to just be on like a lot of horse tranquilizer during that time.

We, so we have- May 19th. Yeah. Isn't the lottery like right around there? Yeah, it's great. It, so we have, May 19th. Yeah. Isn't the lottery like right around there? Yeah, it's great. It's like two days later. I don't know what I'm going to do with myself. You're like paramedics here.

I know. All right. So we have odds for who will rule Westeros at end of season eight, sit on the iron throne. These odds are from a site I found sports book. Bran Stark, plus 150, our favorite. Bet $100, you win 150. Yeah, so this one, we were texting quite a bit

about this last night. I'm concerned. Talking to our other fans of the shows. And this choice is so out of left field that it feels like... Do they know something? Do they know something? Is that concerning?

Is that... Yeah, so that's the only conclusion you can come to. We should say... So for the audience out there, this is the Stark kid who can't move his legs. And right. And is also not. The three eyed raven.

And has also, you know, pretty clearly given up his Stark identity. He considers himself to be, he is the three eyed raven. So he's essentially this kind of like magical steward of Westeros, of, of the connection between Nate,

the natural world and, you know, the human world. He's, it would be kind of a step down for him to be like, now I will govern

the continent. In season seven, when Bran and Sansa are reunited, and she says, you're the Lord of Winterfell, and he flat out says, not interested.

Yeah, I don't want the job. That's not my life anymore. And then the really heart-wrenching scene where he says, you're the Lord of Winterfell. And he flat out says, not interested. Yeah, I don't want the job. That's not my life anymore. And then the really heart-wrenching scene where he says, where he doesn't really say goodbye to Mira. She says goodbye to him. And he's just like, I'm not Bran Stark anymore. That is a relic of another life. I am the Three-Eyed Raven.

That's right. This is my life now. This is my responsibility. I see across time. So I think in terms of just the evolution of the plot and brand's character that's partially why people had moved beyond considering him as an actual who will rule at the end a little too spacey to be on for the day-to-day in king so these ads were immediately suspicious to you and you feel like there's some inside info potential. Well, why would you make that choice?

There are two possibilities, I think. One is the most alarming, which is that they know something. Vegas knows something. I almost. Think about like how many people would have to know what happened in the last episode. So if you have a crew, even if you film like whatever the last scene is or, or whatever, I would think it would be at least a hundred people would know. Probably more.

Probably more. And I mean, we should say just for full transparency and clarity, we have no idea. You know, first of all, we have not seen any leaks. And when there are leaks,

like there were rampant leaks in season seven, we try really hard to avoid them because that's not how either of us want to experience the story and find out what happens. Have not seen the same internet leak, spoiler, surge heading into season eight, which is encouraging. So on the one hand, there hasn't been that kind of buzz. Do you think they would do like the film, the three different endings to throw people off the scent move? Well, I don't think they have time to do that. There were a lot of rumors when they were filming the season that they were going to feed dialogue

directly into the actor's earpieces. So there weren't even scripts. They were going to have multiple scenes that they acted out, different endings for different episodes so that they could throw people off the scent. I don't know how much of that was bullshit. I think a lot of it was probably just an effort to say,

oh, we're going to make sure that no information can be considered real real but i don't know this is just such a strange we should also odds on favorite we should also say that uh you know um there's that there's an interview with why can't i remember the actress who plays sansa stark's name sophie turner one of my tattoo idols. Right. There was an interview with Sophie Turner where she's like, oh, I told my friends the ending. So it's out there. Sure. Like it's like on the streets.

So you get Sophie Turner and put a couple of drinks in her house and she's telling five people. I have a couple. I have a question. You're a gambling expert. So this isn't like a this isn't a sporting event where the outcome is not known and it is based on parsing information. The outcome of Game of Thrones is known to people, as you're saying. But if something has leaked and is at a certain point accessible to the masses, they would take it off the board. Right.

So nothing is leaked yet. And that gives me hope. Because they actually took Game of Thrones Season 7 down of Thrones Season Seven odds down when the leaks started. I'll rip through the odds and then we can go through just for the audience. Jon Snow is two to one. Okay. The mother.

Not this mother, the other mother. Three to one. I think those are- Daenerys. Essentially correct. Sansa Stark, my favorite pick. Seven to one. I like it.

I just like the odds. I like the seven to one. I get some value on that The Night King is also 7-1 this is so funny seeing this that's the other thing

we have to talk about with Bran we need to circle back to that in a minute with Bran Tyrion Lannister 8-1 interesting

Arya is 16-1 so is Cersei and then it gets silly after that Gendry, Jaime, Sam. Yeah, they're 16 to 1. Jaime's 16 to 1 with his one arm. Gendry actually has a better path than you think.

I'll just say that. Well, Gendry is King Robert's son. All right, so Jon Snow is 2 to 1. I just, I got to say Arya at 16 to 1, just from the arc of her, that wouldn't shock me either as a value bet. But it seems like when I saw this, I just assumed Jon Snow was going to be the favorite. And I was surprised that he was not the favorite. Can we circle back to the brand thing for one more second?

Because I think ruling out any sort of leak or inside information, trying to figure out what could be fueling Bran as the winner here, there's only one answer. And it's the Bran is the Night King theory. Which is, I think at this point, the most prevalent and parsed remaining Game of Thrones theory. Can you do that theory in 20 seconds? It's that Bran, who is a warg, at some point,

there are variations of it. There's a Bran is the a warg. Right. At some point, there are variations of it. There's a Bran with the Mad King theory. Bran is all of the Brandon Starks theory. There are various theories about Bran traveling across time

and into people's minds. But the Night King one specifically is that Bran will at some point or did at some point warg back across time and into the Night King's mind and then became him.

Right. In essence. That's one of the versions of it. So what happens if you bet, so you'd win both bets? Well, that's the question. That's the question. That's confusing. Is that the reason why Bran is so high?

But the Night King is also listed at 701. Well, it's also like, does that mean that Bran will be an ally for good? Right. Who is able to, because Will Bran warg a dragon has also been one of the main Game of Thrones theories for years. And when, obviously, spoiler alerts for anybody listening at this point.

But when Viserion, Dany's third dragon, was killed by the Night King. Tragic day. It was a tragic day. It was a truly tough day. Never been more upset about a dead dragon in my life.

It's very upsetting. The Night King raised Viserion. He is his steed now. And it's like, okay, well, that doesn't mean that the Bran working a dragon theory is dead because could Bran work Viserion as an undead dragon? That's still in play. So there are all these different, super fantastical, mythologically driven theories involving Bran.

Maybe he takes over the Night King and eliminates the Night King, but also then there's the question of what does the Night King want? Maybe he becomes the Night King and becomes a soldier of evil. Bran is crucially not in the season eight trailer that features Jon, Sansa, and aria in the crypts of

winterfell clearly positioning john who we we know now is a targaryen and a stark the son of reygar and liana positioning john as a stark and the show is in many ways about identity and choice and so saying john will still choose to align as a stark hopefully or at least in part where's brand well one of the theories is that Bran is there when the cold winds from the Night King enters. Mist coming in, yeah. Very upsetting. I personally do not want this theory to be true.

Yeah. So which out of these ones, well, let's go here. Sure. Who do you want to be on the Iron Throne? Jon. Yeah. So Jon two to one. That's what you think too, Jason?

Yeah. Yeah. I John two to one. That's what you think too, Jason? Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to see that. I think it just, you know, this whole, there's a lot of like thematic elements, but John's identity,

where he comes from, his lineage is in many ways, the primary mystery of this story. I mean, it's the thing that when George sat down with Benioff and Weiss

the first time when they were like, we want to make your story a show, he asked them to close the meeting so who's Jon's mother? Right. And they gave him the correct answer. So that's the key to all of this.

So I think it would just be, it would just be perfect if john was on the throne at the end why couldn't it be the mother of dragons it could be it certainly could be it could be i think the shocking uh absence on this board here is the baby john and danny's baby because danny's definitely pregnant a hundred. The womb is quickening. The womb is quickening. The womb is quickening, folks. They made love several times on a boat. Sex boat.

Right. For sure. That's a normal thing to do with your aunt. Right. Goalie pulled. To be fair, he didn't know that at the time that she was his aunt. So that'll be a tough thing for them to find out. Don't find out when the baby has seven arms.

Well, a lot of incest babies have signs of ice and fire. That has happened in the history of the Targaryen family. Not seven arms, but winged children and, you know, other... And Joffrey. Not great stuff. Just Joffrey's psychotic personality. One thing in favor of Bran, though. Yeah.

I'm just really, I can't get this Bran thing out of my head. Yeah. In many ways, fundamentally, what is the story about? Cripples, bastards, and broken things, right? The Tyrion idea. And so in that sense, Bran has

always been one of the emotional throughlines of the show. One of our laments about recent trajectories of the show is moving away from Bran. They sidelined him for a whole season. So that's one of the things that I can't wrap my head around. Bran was literally absent from an entire season of the show.

He's going to win at the end? That just doesn't track. So, counter. First episode, he's in probably one of the five most memorable scenes in the show's history and seems like he felt his death. And then if it all came around, he's in charge at the end. That would tie into the first episode.

That's kind of my point. It's like in terms of the fundamental identity of the show and the story, it makes sense. But in terms of how the show has actually positioned Bran in recent seasons, less so. Yeah, why not give him a little more PT? He's been shunted off to the sidelines

for significant amounts of time. And even when he has come back, you know, it's kind of like, the show has at times, we feel, struggled to kind of tap into the fantasy elements that Bran's character personifies. So you think the baby should be on the board?

I think the baby should be on the board. Absolutely, the baby should be on the board. What do we baby should be on the board. Absolutely, the baby should be on the board. What do we call that baby? The Song of Ice and Fire. Yeah. I mean, Jon is the Song of Ice and Fire, really, which is, again, why Jon should be the ultimate favorite. Can we cross off Tyrion?

We can cross off Cersei because Cersei's going to die. Yeah, Cersei's going to die. I would be absolutely stunned if Cersei did not die. Stunned. Nothing that they could do in season eight would shock me more than Cersei not dying. And Cersei living? Yeah. Yeah.

For various reasons, the Valancor prophecy, of course, Maggie the Frog's prophecy. Will Cersei die in childbirth? No, I don't think so. I mean, it's got to be Jaime, right? I hope so. I hope Jaime kills her. That's too perfect. Who else, if you had to do,

these people are gonna die, odds? So you think her? Davos, who I love, seems like he's fattened up for the execution. I'm not sure that Cersei or Jaime will make it out. Yeah. I have a hard time imagining either of them living. I can kind of see a parlay where they die in the same scene together.

Well, one of our favorite theories is that Jaime will kill Cersei. This is a prophecy that exists in the book that exists in part in the show, but they kind of took the important- They took the Valonqar part out. So it's basically that, you know, Cersei will die with the hands of this person around her neck. And the word in High Valyrian, Valonqar means little brother. And Jaime is technically younger than Cersei.

By like minutes. So she has always thought it referred to Tyrion, which is part of why, not only, but part of why she's loathed him and feared him. But could it be Jamie? The show ends and then he becomes the Sawyer of this decade. Handsome guy that everybody loves who just could never find another show. Oh, he'll be great.

He's great. Isn't he in a prison movie you like? I love that movie. Shane, I love that movie. What was it? Shot Caller? Shot Caller. Shot Caller is good.

Couple other ones. Why can't Arya become Iron Throne person? I mean, she has a path to it. She's got the royal blood. She's got the strong lineage. Very good at the sword play now. Really great with the swords. I just think it's not...

It's possible, but it would be highly unlikely. It's not in her nature for one. She doesn't want it. That's the key to me. She doesn't want it. She would be absolutely spurnful of it. Do you think that

Benioff and Weiss knew how this was going to end when they started the show? Or do you think this was a lost situation where they figured it out as the show was evolving? Well, they had that summit meeting with George, i think before season six i want to say where they basically uh waylaid george at his santa fe compound and were like tell us everything

that you know about how this story goes forward right here on out and they spent like a couple days or however long it was just you you know, downloading information from him. So what if you could have been in the room for that entire summit, how many years would you give up at the end of your life? Oh, man. Like, would you give up like a year, like the last year? Just died one year early. But you're in that you're in for the entire summit. How many total years do I have?

And what's my quality? What's the quality like? If it's one year where it's kind of like, you know. Let's say you're in for the entire summit. How many total years do I have in this scenario? Yeah, and what's my quality? What's the quality like? If it's one year where it's kind of like, you know. Let's say you're in at 90. 90? Yeah, you're in at 90. Okay, so I'm choosing. Because at that point, Postmates will just be,

they'll have, be full service for you. 89. 89, you start at 89 and start at 90. How the story ends. You know everything. You're there for the whole meeting. They even a couple times look over and like, hey, now, what do you

think about this? I might choose that. I think I would choose that. Yeah, because I have no, I mean, I believe in George and I feel really bad that so many people spend so much of their time judging him for not having finished. I think it just must be a devastating thing for him to have to shoulder. And I root for him and I believe in him.

I do not think that he will finish the seventh book. I don't think he'll finish the seventh book. And hearing it from him would be really special. However, I think we also have to note that the complicating factor here is that George doesn't know how the story's going to end. That's the thing. Like, let's be real here.

If he knew, he would have finished the books. Right. That's the issue. If George knew how to finish the books, he would have written it. So he doesn't, there is, whatever the ending, he would have written it so he doesn't there is whatever the ending he may have you know a general direction that he wants to go and this character and this character are doing this but he has no real idea how to get there that much is clear yes

and also just the sheer volume of there's a lot plot yeah and the plot points and the character the first person perspective narratives that he has to maintain at this point. And people who have read the books understand that they have widened in scope dramatically. Particularly from the third book to the fourth that it's just, it's hard to land

this plane, man. Alright, let's make a gambling recommendation once and for all. What is the best bet on the board? I think it's Jon Snow. I think it's Jon Snow. I think it's Jon also. Jon Snow, two to one. Yeah.

That's your recommendation. Do you have one long shot pick for us? Gendry. I don't actually see that happening, but it's the most defensible long shot here because he is King Robert's bastard son. I'm tempted to try to make a case for Sam, though ultimately I think we probably are in agreement that Sam is. That's ludicrous. I don't even totally know who Sam is.

Sam is going to occupy the George role, which is he's going to write the history. The history. In the actual story, he will write the Song of Ice and Fire. So Sam's George's going to write the history. The history. In the actual story, he will write a Song of Ice and Fire. So Sam's George's proxy. Yes, exactly. I don't know.

What do you think, Jay? Do you see a long shot that's actually convincing? I mean, Gendry, again, I agree with your take that it's within the realm of possibility, though I do not think

that will happen. Yeah, it's... All right. It's hard to call Sansa a long shot at... of possibility, though I do not think that will happen. Yeah. It's hard to call Sansa a long shot at... You heard it from the Binge Mode crew. Jon Snow, 2-1. When does... We're doing...

Can you tip people off on a couple of things we're working on? Sure. Binge Mode Thrones comes back for the actual season Binge Mode Game of Thrones which is April 14th

not that far away we'll be back doing a preview show before that yeah in some capacity we'll be with you every week for season 8

and then we've got some some a lot of fun stuff coming on TheRinger.com a great website some really fun video stuff getting ready a lot of fun videos uh Jason has um

been asking about a costume budget. So prepare accordingly. Costume budget? Interesting. I don't know if that's come across my desk yet. It's a requirement. Absolutely. You need the costume budget.

What do you need? What's your number one costume thing? I would like a Jon Snow Night's Watch. He wants a full animatronic dragon. I'd love a King Jon Snow also. Throw some wildling, throw some wildling fits in there and maybe like a maester's, archmaester's chain,

the Valyrian link, the whole thing. He wants a full recreation of Jon and Ygritte's sex cave. Wow. Sulfur intentional. Smells better in the cave than anywhere else. And when do we think Game of Thrones was?

Like 1300s? This is the absolute best thing in the world. The 1280s? You tell us, Bill. I think like 1300s. I think it's after the Vikings. Sure, sure. But I think it's well before when we created Thanksgiving and things like that.

So I'm going to say like 1300s. So you're anticipating a Battlestar Galactica Planet of the Apes style ending where we realize that this has been our universe all along. Yeah. Yeah. 1300s. Sure. Seems fair.

Sure. Could build stuff by then. Incredible. I want on the season finale when we're on Twitter and you're already melting down and we have a very special guest and it's going to be Joe Flacco. And that'll be it. Your head will explode. And then we'll have to replace you we have a very special guest and it's going to be Joe Flacco. And that'll be it. Your head will explode. And then we'll have to replace you.

Probably a very nice man. I'm sure Joe Flacco's a delight. He's a nice man. I'm sure he's a delight. Show me what he can do with a Valerian steel sword and then get back to me. Jason or Mallory,

thank you very much. Thank you. All right. Thanks to KOC. Thanks to Mallory. Thanks to Jason. Thanks to Gordon Hayward for making me happy last night. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to New York Times Crossword. If you have two minutes, play the New York Times Mini Crossword. A fun way to stay sharp when you're not busy. The satisfaction of solving is endless. Wordplay every day. Taking a break with the Mini. It's time well spent. Download the New York Times Crossword app at nytimes.com

slash mini. We are back with one more podcast later in the week. Until then. I don't have.