The Bill Simmons Podcast - Giannis Got Freaked, the Re-Lovable Warriors, Lakers Chaos, and 'Thrones' Complaints With Ryen Russillo | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: May 22, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to talk Bucks-Raptors Game 4 (2:25), the Warriors sweeping the Trail Blazers without Kevin Durant (39:50), Magic Johnson's comments about the Lakers front office (1:32:30), and one final edition of [SPOILERS] 'Throne Game' (1:50:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Get 15% off your purchase for a limited time at lisa.com slash BS. Use promo code BS, L-E-S-A dot com slash BS. Let's talk about TheRinger.com the world's best website. We are still licking our wounds after Game of Thrones is finally over.

We're still writing pieces about it though. And you can listen to Binge Mode which is coming on Thursday morning. The biggest Binge Mode podcast there is.

Speaking of Binge Mode Jason Concepcion one of the hosts of Binge Mode he has another show called NBA Desktop for us. It won the Sports Emmy for Digital Innovation on Monday night. So congratulations to him and to Jason Gallagher and to our whole Ringer video crew, everybody that works on that show.

We're very excited. Love seeing the pictures of those guys holding the trophy on Monday night. It's just a fun show. It's nice to see people acknowledge it. Very happy for everybody. Congrats on that. Coming up, Ryan Rosillo and I, it is a Tuesday night. We just watched Bucks Raptors.

Did not go the way we thought. And now we're going to do a podcast about it. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Ryan Rosillo is here. Wow. Everything was perfect today. The sugarfish order was awesome. Fired up for some games, a little game four. Historically, one of my favorite games of any series.

Really shows a lot about both teams. St. Louis Blues. St. Louis Blues making the cup finals. You know how long it had been? 1970 Redux. Yeah. Is that the last time they made it? Blues, yeah, I guess.

I just saw it, unless somebody was wrong. I'll never forget. I was eight months old watching Bobby Orr soar through the air after he scored and just going nuts. You were locked in early. What's the earliest sporting event you actually remember? Okay. I used to think my father and my grandfather used to take me to Holy Cross football games. Yeah. And that was the first sporting event I remember being at. And I think I was three or four. And I thought because they brought the sticks out to measure. And at the same time, they took a guy off the field in like a wheelchair.

Oh, Jesus. And I thought that meant if you screwed up in the game, they brought these spears out and stuck them through your feet. So like three or four, I'm like, fuck football. I'm not playing this game. That was the end of Game of Thrones coincidentally. Yeah. My first one was the final Flyers-Bruins game in 74. I actually remember

that. How old were you? I remember watching 1-0. I just remember, I don't remember anything else about that season, but I was watching all sports, but I just remember the 1-0 loss. So four years old, you remember? I was like four and three-fourths. Okay. Yeah. That's when you're starting to remember stuff. Because can you ever, do you know your first memories? Can you remember like, okay, this is when I sort of was conscious of what was going on. 75 is when it's when, when I was 1975. So I was like five and a half, six. Like I'd really do remember some of the 75 Red Sox stuff. But do you remember stuff in like nursery school when you were four? Yeah. Like burning your leg in the radiator. It's all like the traumatic stuff. Yeah. Right. I got punched in the face by a girl.

My nose bled. Like that was a pretty good memory. You don't remember any of the good moments. No, no. Just relaxing with Cheerios. But yeah, sports-wise, football, Holy Cross games, the first thing. But I didn't know what was going on. I mean, again, I thought they used to stick a spear through your foot when you made a bad play.

So I wasn't real locked in. That would be, that's I think part of the XFL. Yeah. They're bringing that back. Raptors, Bucs. Imagine talk shows though. Be like, what are we doing? What are we doing?

Why are we maiming players? Raptors, Bucs. We both thought the Bucs were going to win today. No, I picked the Raptors in the series. I think this series is going. Injured Kawhi, you really thought the Raptors are going to win with Kawhi? No, I didn't think they were going to win this way. I just don't know what to believe until I see what Kawhi was injured Kawhi, you really thought the Raptors were going to win with Kawhi? No, I didn't think they were going to win this way.

I just don't know what to believe until I see what Kawhi was going to look like. They were up 12, and he was only 3 of 8 for 10 points. So this was the bench game. So no, I didn't think it would happen this way, but I thought everybody was as great as Milwaukee looked in the first half of game two, and I thought that was like an insane stretch of basketball by any standard in the entire playoffs. I still thought people were a little bit

like losing their minds of just printing up shirts for a Milwaukee championship here. A Milwaukee championship or a Milwaukee finals appearance? I was excited to see Toronto at home. I actually thought they were going to be able

to get back into the series, but I didn't think they were going to do it this way with a bench. So I know we have a bunch of different stuff to go. Well, I think, yeah. So you start with the guards have another rough game for Milwaukee and then none of the bench guys really come through either. But it goes back to me with the guards.

That was my biggest fear with this Bucs team. I thought they were going to win this series, but heading into next round when the Warriors, when that spotlight's really bright, I just want to trust my guards. And this has been an issue. You saw Cleveland had it that year after Kyrie left when they just had a bunch of dudes nobody really trusted, and then it manifests itself in certain ways.

But we've seen this with other playoff teams. I don't trust Bledsoe. We talked about it on Sunday night with Sal. Especially on the road, I just don't think he makes good decisions. And I think when he's bad, he can be kind of shockingly bad. And then Brogdon was the one I trusted the most. He was terrible tonight. And then George Hill has been traded 17 times in the last three seasons.

And those are the people that are really handling the ball. If Giannis can be contained, which Toronto has figured out how to contain him and how they contained him by sagging off those guards and double teaming them. I think teams, not to say you're ever going to stop this guy. Like as bad as it looked in game one against Boston from Milwaukee, you go,

okay, but if we're all right about who Giannis is, one of the three, one of the five best players in this league, MVP, he's going to go off. He's going to have some nights where there's just not much you can do. But I do think with him, because of the way they run this, and I feel this,

this is how I feel about Houston, the separation goal in Houston, is that the more you play it, the more you kind of get used to it a little bit. I don't think that that's that revealing a thing and that it's not figuring out Giannis. It's just not losing your shit about it. And when those perimeter guys start hitting everything, then it's all connected.

And Brogdon was terrible. Bledsoe now in this series is 3 of 12, 3 of 10, 3 of 16, 2 of 7. Today was an improvement, basically. He's down to 20 minutes. I mean, he was noticeably benched in this game. And he's 9% from three on five attempts in this series. When I ripped him on Sunday's pod and said just basically like this,

I've been worried about this specifically all along with this team because I just don't trust him on the road and with the spotlight. And I was bracing for Buck's Twitter. One guy or all of them? All of them. Buck's Twitter is salty.

They've had a lot of losing and they're just salty. They're nasty. They're vicious. Vicious, vicious. Like so, like, wait a minute. But also super sweet if you're on their side. I don't want it though. I don't want it.

The Rottweiler that you can pet, certain people can pet, other people like stay away from that dog right now. And even Buck's Twitter was like, yeah, but so. It's a problem. Fingers crossed. It's one of those things. So, you know, there's a couple

things going on with him. One is if he's not good, first of all, can they get through this series? Then second, if he just continues to crater as his playoffs go along, they've already given him the extension?

They gave him the 70 mil? I think in this world. It seemed like a bargain, but ooh. And then you look at what he did over the, I mean, he was really good this year. So 70 mil extension

in today's world? It's shades of, I hate to compare anyone to Andre Blatch, but when the wizards gave Andre Blatch the extension, and then when they had the amnesty chance, they amnestied it, but it hadn't kicked in yet. One of my favorite Ernie Groenfeld moments.

I liked that Blatch contract because I thought he could play all five positions. He's the creator. Right. I followed him on Twitter. I think I still may. He's not a high volume content guy, but if you go back through some of those tweets, we used to do this wizard's daily show. Remember when they were really bad and was all those dudes. It was like Jordan Crawford. And then I think, um, well, JaVale was on the team. Nick Young was on the team. It was unbelievable that that team existed.

And then there'd be stories. So we started doing these segments where it was called Wizards Daily, where we would find these stories. It'd be like JaVale McGee gets into altercation because Wizards weren't recognized and they had to pay cover. It wasn't like anything nasty that JaVale did wrong or anything. And it may not, to be totally fair, because I don't want to get this wrong, it was one of the guys on the team. So it may not even have been him. But there would always be these things. And it was just, they were the most delusional guys ever.

And then Blatch would just tweet out. They're like, just walk on the beach alone. Gather my thoughts. Like, what are you doing? He was surprised. That team missed its calling. Twitter was really rounding into form at that point. It would have been magical.

Five years later, it would have been a magical Twitter team. Because things were always going on with them that had nothing to do with even the bad basketball that was going on. Arena specifically was about five years too early. Because even he was one of the first, you know, blogs were kind of starting in 0203. I remember he was writing a blog for somebody and was the first one who was kind of tapping into the multimedia connect with the fans thing.

But the universe didn't really exist like it did now. Nowadays, if you took 04 Arenas and just put him into 2019, I mean, he'd be calling everybody out. He'd be challenging people. He'd be crazy. He'd be writing. He'd be like a combination of five crazy guys we have now. I miss him.

It would be funny, though, because then you'd have people, like he would do something just wrong. Like he would say something wrong. And then in today's world, you'd have somebody saying, but it was Gilbert Arenas' right to say that all 30 owners should just give the team to high school kids. Right. You know?

Does Arenas have a point he was always straddling the line of complete insanity and then the guns in the locker room thing happened and then it wasn't that much fun anymore no that's when you were guns in locker room is kind of not a lot of comedy in that part of it but anyway with the i'm trying to find i wanted to look at everybody's field goal attempts jordan crawford led the team in shot attempts god jordan crawford even though john wall played 69 games jordan crawford he was for the season on 16 attempts a game all right because he didn't play full jordan crawford took 16 shots a game yeah but he only this is the season i'm looking at here is i thought the 09 Wizards was the crazy one. That is the team that led to John Wall.

Yeah. Crawford that year shot 39% and 24%. The advanced metrics love them, though. Yeah. His bricks led to more offensive rebounds than any guard that year. Wait, can we get back to Bucks-Raptors? I don't feel like I've...

I just want to make sure we're not leaving anybody out here. Of the crazy wizards people? The Renis. Nick Young. Crittenden. I mean, how can Crittenden be forgotten? No. He doesn't get counted in there?

Never. Cartier Martin. He only had eight games that one year. Cartier Martin. I don't even remember him. You don't remember him? Bucks. Al Thornton.

Remember Al Thornton? Everybody, people really liked him. I liked him. For the draft. Can we talk about? Bucks. Al Thornton. Remember Al Thornton? Everybody, people really liked him. I liked him. For the draft. Can we talk about the Bucks? Yeah. So. 15th, 14th pick.

Bucks are a different team at home than on the road, much like the Celtics last year. I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm sure they'll have their crowd behind them. I don't really trust Toronto's guards either. And I think your guards need to come through on the road. The one thing I didn't like these past two games beyond just how badly some of the Bucks players played was Yana seemed mentally tired to me.

We were talking about it during the game. I didn't think he was physically tired. I, there seemed to be a, there's a weight on my shoulders now vibe to how he was carrying himself tonight that I didn't like, because I think it started to dawn on him that whatever they had during the season where it's like, I got shooters around me and they can only do one-on-one because we have all the shooting and I can just beat dudes off the dribble and I'll just find people or I'll go to the rim and this is easy. And now it's like those

shooters aren't making shots anymore. And now it's not easy. And now it's like, shooters aren't making shots anymore and now it's not easy and now it's like oh shit now what's plan b now i don't know if that's going to carry over milwaukee or not but it was the first time that i i i you could see in his head him trying to solve whatever was going on and couldn't figure it out you're better at detecting that stuff than i am because i don't i think it's simple swagger yeah but i don't know that anybody, when they're losing, like, look, they were down 14. They had a really nice stretch with a Baca. I think it was like a 23 to seven stretch of the Baca. They get it up to 14, then it goes to seven. Did you feel like he looked decisive though? I just think there's a second guy there. Like, I think sometimes we see guys losing and we think they're supposed to be happier. And you're like, well, when you're losing, nobody's happy.

I'm not talking about a happy, sad thing. I'm just saying like, I felt like all year watching him, I was always amazed by how he was solving stuff the way LeBron used to. Where when LeBron really started to figure it out, he was just like, here's a problem being thrown at me, I'm solving it.

Which is what made the 2011 finals meltdown so weird because you could see how far in his own head he was with it. And this B bucks thing, Giannis wasn't as bad as, as the Brown was in the finals, but I, I just could see in his eyes that he was having trouble figuring out.

All right. What's the answer. And I, and why is because I don't think there was an answer. No. And I don't, I don't think there's an answer when no one's hitting shots. So that's their offense. So their offense is we create space for yannis and we

hit shots if the shots aren't going in i don't really know what they're supposed to do middleton had 30 he looked like he didn't miss and so it's weird that like middleton has one of those nights and he didn't he was 11 to 15 and that's actually after missing a couple shots i think he's like eight of nine at one point and yannis you know he didn't take a ton of shots for him, 17. It's not a lot, but they don't worry about Bledsoe. Lopez only took five shots. They don't worry about Brogdon at all. But Brogdon was good earlier in the series.

Yeah, but I'm just talking about tonight. So like every, from what I saw from like a basketball strategy thing, it felt like the court started shrinking on Giannis. Yeah. it's it's like how does he figure it out he usually figures it out with a head of steam or with space they took the head of steam away yeah so it's let's just I mean the thing with Giannis you're just gonna make sure people shade over and then you get killed with guys shooting outside that's why that game two thing I'm going you know what like maybe this is gonna be a like I still wanted to see Toronto go going, you know what? Like, maybe this is going to be a, like, I still wanted to see Toronto go home because, you know, like,

let's see them go home and see what happens here. But that game two first half scared the hell out of me that I was like, why would you even hang on to this Raptors pick at all? But there's going to be nights

with these guys. Like, this Milwaukee team is actually kind of funny that way because when it's right, it's like, man, what an unbelievable system. Wooden holes are incredible. Look at Giannis. Perfect, perfect, perfect. And then there's when it's right, it's like, man, what an unbelievable system. Budenholzer's incredible. Look at Giannis.

Perfect, perfect, perfect. And then there's a night like tonight, you're going like, who am I really scared of? Who am I really scared of? When they weren't even guarding Bledsoe

in the second half, that was a red flag. So, it's maybe more Connaughton? Herter? Maybe more Herter? Can they trade for Herter?

Do they have a max slot available? Why did you vote first team for him for all rookie team? I can't believe you did that. I can't believe I was the only one. Why was he 10th in rookie votes? Why was he last of any of the rookies? So we talk about the difference between Giannis at this stage of his career and LeBron.

And the difference is even in the 07-08 range when LeBron's And the difference is even in the 07, 08 range, when LeBron's supporting cast fell apart around him. And that was a worse supporting cast than what Giannis has right now. Way worse. Yeah. I mean, that's an unbelievable accomplishment. Abominable. But he could kind of become a one-man offense. And I don't think Giannis has that particular set of skills yet. The totality of what he does is great. But in that terms of, oh, shit, nobody else has it, I got this. I don't think he can do it. But think how bad it looks sometimes, though, too, when a guy,

like we are real tough on these guys. Because it's like, hey, you know what? Solve it. And then there's times with Kawhi, who we don't think has ever been labeled a selfish player other than, you know, the Spurs thing. But I'm saying his actual approach to the game. I don't think anybody said, hey, it's selfish,

but look at the end of that Philly series. He was the only one that was comfortable out there other than Ibaka in game seven. And I'm not sure Giannis feels like he might even be two years away from- What Kawhi is now. Yeah. So what I'd be saying though,

is that like if you wanted Giannis to maybe figure this out or carry that burden or do some of those things, I think sometimes it looks terrible. And then we start going like, oh, these are just bad shots. And now you're just shooting to be able to say, they're outside guys didn't hit any shot. Bledsoe has been a disaster now for four straight games, carrying over really a little bit of

the other series. I don't know if there's a lineup thing. You seem to want to try this big lineup, which I think would actually be interesting just to see what happened. If my guards suck, then I'm trying weird shit. And the trump card I have is Giannis can play any position. So play him at what?

Play him at point guard. Like just, if none of my guards are showing up, don't play any of them. Have Giannis handle the ball and have Giannis guard Kyle Lowry. Like, I'm just saying for a game where nothing's going right,

I would have thrown more shit at the wall than I think coach Bud did in this game. But the reason I bring up the honest thing, it's going to circle around into a compliment. He won, I voted for him for MVP. I thought he was the best player this year. I don't think he's kind of close to being a finished product yet. You know, like LeBron didn't win an MVP till he was in 2009. That was his first really great year. And then the playoffs, that was another situation where his supporting cast didn't really show up. And LeBron, I think he averaged like 35, 36.

What's the Orlando series loss? The whole playoffs. He, he did everything he could and they still didn't win. I don't, I, I think Giannis is probably two years away from having the offensive weaponry to do that right now. It's like, if you seal them off, he doesn't have a lot of options. If they're double teaming him. The problem is you just have to stay locked to seal him off that whole time. And then guess what happens? You had a Milwaukee bench that was outscoring Toronto's

bench by almost 20 a game in the first three games. And then by the time this game was decided, it was a 30 point advantage for Toronto's bench. So now a game in the first three games. And then by the time this game was decided, it was a 30-point advantage for Toronto's bench. So now you have guys like Powell, who's playing more now. Lowry was awesome, which is somebody, you know, I have to remind to give credit to when he deserves it, because it's funny how time, like Lowry was, when it wasn't Kawhi, it was Lowry. He had like 10 or 11 free throws, right?

I like when guys get to the line. 10 of 10, yeah. I mean, he ended up with 25 overall and only took 11. I mean, 25 on 11 shots. So you've got that. What was the other one? I don't want to do too much.

Yeah, but Ibaka was really good. So when all those guys are scoring, guess what happens? Now everybody's paying more attention to all the Giannis rules. Would you post up Giannis more? It's the one thing they do that I don't think they do enough of.

I would post him in that, go and double him. Come bring that double and see if we can get somebody going. it's the one thing they do that I don't think they do enough of. I would post them in that, go, go and double them. Come bring that double and see if we can get somebody going. But when you, when you talk about like throwing more shit against the wall, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think there's always something that we overlook when you're the coach of a team is that if you're losing Bledsoe for the rest of the series,

that, that may be how you like, I don't know how that dynamic is. Can you bench a guy and get something out of him? Or do you bench him? They did bench him though. He played 20 minutes. 20 minutes,

yeah. I mean, he'd only played 10 minutes. Like, he wasn't playing him a lot, but I'm sure deep down, and maybe, maybe coaches should be tougher

about this stuff, but each player's different. Good coaches know that. What motivates guys? It's not the same for everybody, but I'm sure there's part of him, I'm sure of it, is like,

this guy's been a guy who's been really good this year and it sucks right now, but I'm sure there's part of him. I'm sure of it. It's like, this guy's been a guy who's been really good this year and it sucks right now, but I'm not sure that I can just go away from him forever because he shot it so poorly for a week and a half. Do you think gone to the Bucs front office's head, if they had four drinks in them and it was like two in the morning at the hotel bar

and you said, if you could have backsies on that blood cell 70 million, you would do it? You think they would take Baxi's? Maybe six drinks in. Six drinks in? Maybe a shot? A shot that screws up the whole pacing. Be like, hey, I've been really good.

And then wait a minute. Kyle just brought a shot. God damn it, Kyle. Somebody brought. Why'd you do that? I'm not going to name drop here, but it was just a nice, steady day the other day. Was at a bar watching some sports. Was this at the Scientology Center?

That was last week. Oh. And it was a non-drinking. It wasn't like, hey, let's have a few beers and have some fun this afternoon. It was a, hey, let's rest up. I don't want to's let's have a few beers and have some fun this afternoon it was a hey let's rest up i don't want to drink we have a night tonight i don't want to i don't want to have this i don't want to have some drag out day deal where you know next thing you know you're listen to you listen to old dirty bastard tracks and you're in sweatpants with your shirt off your

house you're like wait a minute i'm supposed to go out tonight? And this guy walked up with three rumplement shots. In the middle of the day. It's sunny. It was hot. It was beautiful. And you're not drinking. And you just go, I get the spirit behind this is really admirable. But I don't want to drink.

I don't even want anything right now. Is this Bar Corner? Are you doing Bar Corner right now? I am. Don't bring shots in the day to people who aren't drinking. And the guy I was with looked at me and goes, does this happen to you? I go, yeah, kind of, but this is aggressive. Like I didn't, no one drank this when people drank. Like we used to make fun of guys that ordered rounds. Rumpelmintz isn't a sponsor on anything, right? I don't even know what it is.

Is that like Jagermeister? It's in that family of liqueurs. It's a real heavy minty, but the thing is- Like that you give to pledges at a frat when you're trying to make them throw up? But it's so strong. It's like a hundred proof. Yeah. So that's beyond most of your liquors.

I think it'd be funnier from this story, it just now became a thing where Lister's just brought you purple mint shots. No, no, no. Hey, man. Heard the pod. I am absolutely, I'm going to throw it at you.

Okay? I want nothing to do with it. You're going to start a bar fight with Priscilla. This is why you got to be Kyla. Kyla will drink all three. This is going to happen now. Is it like Fernette? No, it's not like Fernette.

It's, check it out, Kyle. It's like 100, is it 101 or is it 100 proof? It's 100, right? It's disgusting. Yeah. it 101 or is it 100 proof? It's 100, right? It's disgusting. Yeah. And it's not a fun, it's not a, hey, you know what I feel like doing? Totally sober in the middle of the day with the sun out.

Rumpelmints. Watching some hockey. I'm going to get a sub into just a little sidecar rumpelmints. It's tough. It's a missed shot, kind of like Eric Bledsoe. Eric Bledsoe is the rumpelmintz, sponsored by Rumpelmintz. This series. God. Rumpelmintz has

never gotten more pub. Do you think his agent was like, asked his assistant like, hey, that extension, we signed that, right? They faxed that to us. That's all done? Yeah. They got it back? Hey, can we just double check? That wasn't a verbal, right?

We actually... Are you being unfair right now? He's been terrible. That extension looks terrible. It's not a crazy extension, though. I don't want to pay anybody $17 million a year. It's not a crazy extension. I thought it was a deal when they did it in March,

but he's gone off the deep end here. You're paying him half of what Lowry's getting. Oh. Think about it. What team is Lowry on next year? I don't know. Is there some Phoenix maybe for him? What if Kawhi stays?

He's not staying. I thought he was staying after he made the game winner in game seven. Is that what people said? That's what I kept reading. And then I read that he had to go somewhere else after game two. Just moves around? No, I'd read he had to go somewhere else after game two. Just moves around. No, I'd read he was staying emotionally attached to the city,

iconic photo, game seven, walk off. And then after they got smoked in game two, it's like, he needs more help. Supposedly somebody was in a spin class with uncle Dennis. Easy.

Uncle Dennis was easy on the spin class jokes. I've had to do a lot of damage control because too soon. It still stings. Stings. Zach does a thing on his podcast where he now warns the aggregators. Yes. Where he's about to pass along something, but that isn't passing along his report. Zach and I do that all the time on his podcast.

And he goes, yeah, and note to the aggregators out there. I just caught that. And aggregators, don't take this and run with it. I like that. The preemptive aggregator warning. Yeah, Zach and I have a couple of big things planned. But I... Sponsored by Rumpelbit?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody thought that I actually said that somebody's source was in a spin class. So I had it. It kind of sucked for a little while. But you joked. It was a total joke. It was clearly a joke. And then one website picked it up as real.

And then once the rules were broken, it was just like, well, now we can run with it because somebody else ran with it. And it was like, no, no, I didn't really mean that Jeannie Buss had a spin class. I didn't do anything as terrible as when I almost started a national crisis in New Zealand by mentioning that if OKC was going to shake it up, Adams was the most logical guy. Give a three-day story in New Zealand. Led the news. Led the news in New Zealand. They had to have a, like, I think whatever their version of the parliament is. Yeah.

They get together. Emergency parliament meeting. I had Zane Lohan last week, who's from New Zealand. Can he do a good New Zealand accent? Huh? Can he do a good accent? Well, he's from there. So he talks like that all New Zealand accent? Huh? Can he do a good accent? Well, he's from there.

So he talks like that all the time. it must be great. Yeah. And, uh, and I was explaining that whole story to him and he was like, oh yeah, you can't even joke about that.

You didn't even, it wasn't, it was basically like, you know, Hey, if they're going to have to try to figure this out on the fly, like Adams might be the one that has to go. And then it's like a reminder that he's what making 24 and 27 million the next two years and i still like steven adams i'd be like you know if i

were doing this i think you'd start looking at like big numbers and going what's only two years like that's fine we can do worse than that but uh yeah that ended up being that ended up being bad just imagine if you were australian because then they would have been like figures yeah asshole yeah blame the new zealand guy this. That's the right thing to do. Yeah. We're going to have point guard roulette this summer. Conley to the Celtics? I hope so.

One of my favorite ones, though, is the people that think if the Lakers strike out on everybody else that Chris Paul is their backup plan. He's got like $180 million remaining. No. No. Something like that. No, it's not that much. I'm sorry. million remaining? No, no. Something like that. No, it's not that much.

I'm sorry. What do you mean, no, it's not that much? He doesn't have 180 do him. He's four years left. No, because when he did, he did a, all right, I could be wrong here, but he did a shorter one because of the new sign and trade deal, I believe.

Was it a three with four? Yeah. No, he took the max. Well, he had to give up. He took a lot of money. So he has three years left. He has three years because it's a player option at 44. Oh, he's not exercising that?

No, of course he's picking it up. We can go ahead and break that one right now. But it's not $180 million is my point it's so this year it's 120 it's 120 120 for three years would you do that if you're the lakers i thought he moved around better when he came back from the injury oh you would uh this gets this gets back to my point on all this stuff would you do kuzma for chris paul that's it. Like the Lakers go, we'll take them off your hands. Darryl,

reset button. I really don't want that $44 million staring me down. You don't? So I don't think I would do that. What if LeBron's like, if you guys don't do this, I'll leave in three years after this. Because he signed. He could leave in two. I guess

he could leave in two. I don't know if they would care anymore. LeBron's like, look. Oh, okay. Yeah, we got it. LeBron's like, I want a meeting with the two loser bus brothers, the COO. Who's the guy? Tim Miller?

Harris. Tim Harris. Genie Bus and World Wide Web. We're all getting together. We're hashed this out once and for all. Oh, and Kurt and Linda Rambis. They have to be here too. Table for eight.

I want you to hear my trade demand. What if he says magic has to be there? And they're like, wait a minute. Magic's gone. That was one of the weirdest things. We're going to talk about magic later. But when LeBron said how magic didn't call him and give him a heads up. And magic was the guy that they did that whole thing

when he signed, it was like, I'm going to learn a lot from Magic. I think everybody in that was kind of lying. It really feels that way. Yeah, I don't think LeBron came here because of Magic. It was a nice way to make it look like Magic closed the deal. But if you sign LeBron under your stewardship, right, then you get to take credit for it, so whatever.

But then when LeBron had said like, he needs someone to make this up to him, I'm like, oh my God. Cause that was, that to me was classic LeBron. And like, if there's something that goes wrong that I can hold against you to make it feel like, like to motivate you more, to make sure you don't screw up anything. Like he got mad at the Miami heat for not having a 15th guy signed one year. Right. He's like, you know, you're just going to make sure you're doing everything you can to make us competitive. And you're like, so the guy that doesn't even get a penny in practice, like he's the difference between you being happy or unhappy. So when LeBron had said after the magic thing,

somebody, you know, I needed somebody to explain this to me and I need somebody to make this up to me or all these different things. I thought like, you don't care about any of this actually. I don't think you care, but it's just, it's just a bullet for you to have. He's very focused on space jam right now. I mean, very focused.

I would say that's probably the number one priority for the next couple of months. I think Anthony Davis is still, I don't think that happens. I think, what do you think? No, I don't think it happens either,

but what do you think LeBron would want right now? The number one movie this summer or Anthony Davis? Movie. Because he knows he's not getting Anthony Davis. Gail Benson's like... I don't think he's getting Anthony Davis. Gail Benson's like, this isn't happening. Yeah.

But, you know, whenever I run into... Like when i was out in chicago for the combine and you'll talk about certain things going on i feel like i'm on an island a lot like oh he just wants to do tv shows and it's all about his entertainment group and it's all about this it's all about that and you make the space jam joke a lot too and i'm like you guys think he just wants to go get his ass kicked though the next three years in basketball because that doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense to me either and i get a lot of pushback on that and the theory that he actually would still want to be competitive and win games i don't know i guess i'm aware of i think he i think he thinks it's gonna work out

it always has i just think he's like it'll be fine we'll get somebody because that was the attitude he had last summer and it didn't work and he had no real plan it didn't seem like but he just assumed it would work out. And then all of a sudden, he had Rondo and those guys, Deshaun, Lance Stevenson. Deshaun Stevenson actually would have made sense. Deshaun Stevenson might have been even signed. But I just think he always thinks it's going to work out

and somebody's going to want to play with him. But at some point this summer, if it's not working out, I think he's going to be in a full panic. If it's like July 10th and they haven't gotten anybody. Yeah, because I know if we get, we get to the Lakers stuff a little bit later, but that's another thing that I've tried to say here throughout it is that maybe Palenka can't do the job.

Maybe he's going to be bad at this and maybe he's going to get fired, but it's one off season where I really don't like what they did after they got LeBron. But let's see if they strike out on everybody again, especially with all the different names moving around, then that actually to bring it back full circle,

that's what ends up happening with the Chris Paul thing. Because it sounds better. Like, hey, we finally got Chris Paul. Like, don't look behind the curtain, but we got Chris Paul. If you do that, you then have to sign Carmelo. You just have to. And then Wade has to come back. You just got to do it. You just got to and then Wade has to come back you just gotta do it

you just gotta get the four together and it just it becomes a reunion concert over like trying to actually do anything in the playoffs one of Wade's guys is like bonus DVD footage yeah

we didn't sell the international second year rights to our whatever hey we gotta do a State Farm thing, but quickly. Bucks, Raptors,

what happens? I wasn't going to be surprised either team winning this series. I really wasn't. But what do you think happens after watching four games? I think the Raptors win the series.

Wow. I still think Bucks because I think they're a different team at home. And I think they win in seven. Yeah, I'm not. I think think Bucks because I think they're a different team at home. And I think they win in seven. Yeah, I'm not... I think it's embarrassing that... I'm not pounding the table

about this pick, by the way. I'm just going to... I think losing by 20-plus in game four is pretty embarrassing, though. For a team that's supposed to be really good and all the advanced metrics

were really favorable to them as a dominant team that, you know, they lose game three or whatever, but then they come back game four and the opposite happens. Right. It went, it's not great. It's weird to be a team that looked that good at home and you know, game one, they were down and that's, you know, all these things are impressive in different ways. Like, wow, that's some real mental toughness. Game one. Okay. But you're at home. All right, fine. And then you come out even better in game

two. So it's trending in this direction where it's like Toronto can't hang with these guys. And I'm like, you know, Toronto's good. They might not be as good as Milwaukee, but this is a good basketball team. There were some half-court offense red flags in game three that I noticed. Yeah, but then to lose a tough one like that and then have your worst one in game four, like that's the scary thing. In game three, the guys that in the Middleton-Bledsoe combo is terrible. I didn't love the shots they were getting. I always judge it by, are you getting good shots? Do I like the shots? Am I enjoying your shot selection? And I didn't totally love the shots. And the guys that seemed to have open shots were guys that if you had wagered on the bucks, you didn't totally want them open from 25 feet. You didn't feel comfortable. And today was even a worse example of that.

I didn't love really any of the shots they had for most of that game. And I was bored by it. I was bored by their offense, which is hard because you got Giannis on your team. All right, we're going to do the State Farm thing. Players and fans prepare all year for the playoffs. They need to be ready for anything with a State Farm agent on your team. You can be ready for anything, too.

They can help you prepare for whatever life throws your way, kind of like the NBA draft. We have an awesome draft guide on the ringer. Kevin O'Connor ranks the top 30. We were talking earlier about is it a top three or a top four? Because you have... Darius Garland, the bandy kid. Darius Garland's a wild card.

Because right now... If you watch him, I'm serious right now, like if people are listening and saying, go watch his games, and you're going to go, why isn't this guy being talked about more? He got hurt, right? Yeah, he got hurt in his fifth game, and he played like four non-conference games but he reminds me a little bit and i don't like doing

comps because i just think each player is his own person bill you know yeah he reminds me a little kairi wow he's weird like kairi safe bet he's probably not weirder that would be a good way that we should add that to the draft guide not weirder than kairi just just leaving it there yeah but i i think the top three is is so much of the rumor stuff is the same oh durant's gone kawaii's gone this is happening i don't know why people still keep trying to put Klay somewhere else I don't I don't believe that at all the only red flag

is last year everybody had Paul George going to the Lakers and then all of a sudden he was resigning with OKC I never quite understood the animosity between Palenka and Paul George's agent

well it was it was a Palenka CAA something yeah but they also were like on mission together oh yeah like it's oh there's a little more Palenka, CAA, something. Yeah, but they also were on Michigan together.

Oh. Yeah. Oh, there's a little more. If you dig around the league, Really? there's real... Look, I think Paul George, at the end of the day, liked Oklahoma City a lot more than people realize, too. But he never met with them.

He never met with them. And Mintz had just lost two of his clients. I think it was Russell and Randall. They had jettisoned from the team. Definitely Randall. I figured if the other one's Russell. I thought it was Randall. Wow.

So you have it as three and then a drop. No, I think it's four. Four. And people have told me I should not show up to the Combine high. Who is the fourth pick? The Lakers. Well, I mean, Garland's like the last thing they need. Oh, yeah.

LeBron would hate him. He'd be like, oh, sweet. This guy's like Kyrie. He's a Kyrie 2.0 in training? Yeah. I think it would be so funny if they pass Cam Reddish, clutch client.

They can't take it. They can't. And he's available at four and then they're like, hey man, it's nothing personal. We still love you, but we're not taking you. There's no way you can take Reddish four.

I know what the mock said at the beginning of the year. Did you think there's any way you could pay Contavious Caldwell Pope $12 million last year? No. Was there a market for that? Nope.

Nope. But I mean, it's even weirder that they paid him what they paid him the year before. I mean, he's closer to 20. 17. That was a wink wink. Yeah. All right. So anyway, check out our draft guide.

Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance and get a teammate who can help you prepare for the unexpected. State Farm here to help life go right. Hopefully it goes right for Darius Garland. Hey, you already trust the Home Depot for studs, sheetrock, electrical, everything to build your house. Now, make that house your home by shopping thousands of decor pieces that suit your taste from sofas to area rugs to that fall floral you've been admiring.

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Valid on select items only. Free delivery on select items. $45 or more. Visit homedepot.com for more information. There's more kinds of doing it at the Home Depot. All right, let's talk about the Warriors. 5-0 without Durant, which I thought was both incredible and hilarious. Now, that Portland team they beat was not your typical Western Conference finalist.

I think Lillard gets hurt halfway through game two. Rodney Hood is just not the same guy that he was giving them. If he played in round two like he played in round three, they'd lose to the Nuggets. Cantor broke down completely. He was a shell of himself by the end. Well, I don't know that he broke down. I think that this is one of those series with him

where you could see immediately, this is going to be a problem. True. But he also, he didn't seem like he had that kind of pizzazz to him anymore. I think that double OT game broke him. I actually think this is who he is in certain playoff matchups. Okay. I don't think it's tired.

I don't think it's any of that stuff. I understand all the stuff that he's going through. But I… Did you know he was fasting during the playoffs? I did. I did know he was fasting. No, seriously. Wasn't eating. These are the matchups.

This is why he ended up being somebody who got bought out. And I know this hurts as a... Not just a Canter Island guy. You've been handing out pamphlets in Florida. Listen, they got to the Western Finals with him. They were able to keep him on the court against Jokic,

who I had as my number three MVP. Yeah, and he had some really nice runs. But there's reasons why. I mean, this goes back to the OKC stuff. If you look at his playoff minutes of all those runs, it would be like, oh, I'm playing the Warriors again. But here's the thing. Should we hold it against him?

I can't believe we're doing a cancer conversation. Should we hold it against him that he's a liability against the most sophisticated offensive attack probably in 30 years? It's just so bad. It's just so bad with him. And this is... And also if he's hurt.

But if he's also hurt, that's also bad. I think you had some... You have had some moments in the last few weeks with cancer where you felt like, I'm a genius. Everybody's an idiot. I just thought he was a valuable playoff guy.

It's good to see you. We're back. It's been like a week. We're just screaming at each other about Cantor. So, all right. I think all that's understood. So, back to your point. I thought they should have played him more.

They got swept. What do you say? It worked? Benching Cantor was a good thing? Yeah. So, the Blazers were actually weirdly in those games like they almost won

game two that's why I think this is even more impressive game three they were up 17 game four they really should have won and they just kind of fell apart at the end

but at the same time so much fun to have the Warriors back Sal and I talked about a little on Sunday and I don't want to just repeat it but I just really

miss them and I had kind it a little on Sunday, and I don't want to just repeat it, but I just really missed them. And I had kind of forgotten, you know, they had hit this other level with Durant where it was like, holy shit, like the ceiling of what they can do in a quarter or something is unlike really anything we've had in history. The day-to-day stuff wasn't as much fun. And then whatever has happened these last five games brought me back to 2015 the 25 game winning streak and just like this crazy team that takes terrible shots but they go in and Draymond was this centrifugal force is that the right centrifugal yeah yeah I said that correctly yeah he's don't doubt yourself now he's the center of all of it and then Curry this unbelievable player and then the way they all these role players could step up,

it just kind of came back. And I don't feel like it was a fluke. And it'll be really interesting to see how KD gets woven back into this now. Who, by the way, two weeks ago, we were saying was the best player in the league. And then it's like, oh, man, how are they going to fit him in? Why is he not? I mean, it doesn't mean that all of a sudden he isn't those things. Like, think about the statistical pace that he was on for somebody scoring 25 or more with his shooting

percentages and the best part and to see what he was doing against houston where you go and there's times like it's not like you or i forget who's on golden state's roster but there were times when you watch all the pieces there i'm talking about with kd where i'd be like oh wait like the first two options broke down and they had to settle for a wide open clay three right this is just bored in the corner so fucking stupid yeah again there'd be nights where it would just it would make me laugh again out loud but what i think this is a great lesson in and yeah maybe portland's not great but they swept him yeah the energy like this thing went from and you pointed out and i'm going to give you credit for and yeah, maybe Portland's not great, but they swept him. The energy. Like this thing went from,

and you pointed out, and I'm going to give you credit for this because you tweeted day of game six. We were like this, the reaction to Durant's injury, which by the way, Steph in game five, I remember just going, wait a minute,

this guy looks familiar. End of game five, Steph? Yeah. This is nuts. And then it was terrible in the first half and then it was epic in the second half and you had said, this is a great, let's prove everybody who let's prove everybody who we are. And it was the ex athletes using the no KD. That's why I still like the Warriors where it felt like everybody in the media was completely writing everybody off.

Yeah. Like what a disaster. Yeah. The runs over. I was doing all those shows in New York for ESPN those two days and every guy I was like, okay, well, what are the Warriors going to do this offseason? I'm like, you're already, like, they're up 3-2, and you don't think they can beat Houston one of these two games without KD? Did you know, I didn't know this until two days ago, for game six against the Rockets, Curry wore his 2015 Curry shoes.

I went from thinking, initially my thought was they're going to win game six. This is a great fuck you KD game. Even if they tweeted it out day up, by the way. So you deserve credit for that. I just felt like this is a, we're the champs game.

Then as it went along, it's like, you know what? This is also what makes basketball great. Cause over the years we've seen a team lose somebody that was important and everybody rallies around people chip in. This is when you know you have a great team. Now I'm kind of circling back to the,

this feels like a fuck you KD thing that is at least partly fueling this. Like the level that Draymond has gone to the last five days, the chip on the shoulder that he has now, it's not just about we want to win the title again. This is, something else is happening in my opinion.

I, again, was having moments watching Draymond in game three, like grabbing the guys I was next to. I was out in Chicago. We were having dinner at the bar. We set up so we could watch

the entire game. I was with a bunch of friends. Yeah. And Draymond was doing stuff where I was like annoying guy to watch. Did you just see what he did? Right.

Did you see how many different decisions he made in the same possession and how like a gear that we all talking offense? He was also, no, I'm talking defense. Like when he would, she would screw up everybody's thing. Like he would rotate on three different guys, make the steal. And then in the outlet pass and I'm like, my God, this is sick. So I think the Katie thing is fair, but I don't think that means that Katie sucks. I don't think that means that KD sucks. I don't think it means these guys don't like KD. It means that those guys in the backcourt are really special.

And in a weird way, say Steph were to lose in the NBA finals, I'm not saying this is going to happen, but this stuff shifts so fast from, well, they can't win without KD. Oh my God, wait a minute. Steph, the best in the world now. And we're Steph. And it's almost like if he were to lose in the finals,

what would he just did for five games, five plus games? Would it remind people of how they've overlooked him? Because it's so, like he could, Westbrook, not to go here again, but no matter who's out there, Westbrook's playing one way. Yeah. And it can be really great. It can also be a problem. For Steph to kind of show you, by the way,

you know i could have always done this if i wanted to but the seven foot guy who's probably better all around than i am is just a better option and a lot of the stuff we do so i don't have to do any of that stuff that i did in 15 and draymond same thing clay same thing so i i i'm convinced with basketball some especially if you've already won the title, the motivation becomes as important as the talent in a lot of different ways. And I think this team just always knew that they had it in them.

We always talked about the on-off switch. They always knew deep down, we're better, we can pull this out. That's backfired on teams in the past. But with this team... Yeah, like a team like Boston who's never done it. Right. They're telling us, hey, we got the switch. What are you going, yeah, like a team like Boston who's never done it, who's telling us, hey,

we got the switch. What are you going to switch it back to? You have no switch. The switch hasn't been created. But with Golden State, you know, you take KD out of it and these guys

were really driven to prove they didn't need him. All right, so let's go backwards. I think that Draymond-KD argument, this is so first takey. I don't care. That Draymond-KD argument actually says a lot more than maybe we even realized at the time. Because that argument was all about Draymond saying to him, fuck you, you're leaving anyway. And that was that whole argument. And it got super personal.

These guys have thought KD was leaving all year. Who else thinks he's leaving? Everybody who's in basketball. Not one person. You were in Chicago for four days to come by. Did one person say to you, hey, actually, I heard that KD-Nicks thing is bullshit. He's fucking going there. When everyone says the same thing,

I start to get a little worried. No one has said to me, hey, here's something to keep an eye on with KD possibly staying. Yeah, maybe a one-on-one. He'll do one more. Supposedly four titles. Nobody said that.

There's times where, you know, everybody's feeling a certain way. Like think about Kyrie at one point this season. And it's not just because of what he said at the beginning of the year. Yeah. But it just, the message was very positive. The message internally, externally,

it was always very positive. Hey, this Kyrie thing's going to work out. It's going to work out. Now, I don't know if that was a strategy coming out of Boston because it certainly doesn't feel that way now, but the KD thing has consistently been, the only thing I've heard any twist on it and going back to this past weekend in Chicago would be that you got to keep an eye on Brooklyn as being a possible landing spot. But there hasn't been a, well, you know, Golden State still feels really good about their chances. I haven't had anybody tell me that. And the other thing with the Warriors, and this is just the age we live in,

it's funny because on Sunday night, I predicted with Sal. I was like, KD's going to snap soon on social because he sees all this stuff and all this stuff about the Warriors shoving into KD. He's going to, 12 hours later, he went at Broussard for whatever. All these guys read all this stuff and the narrative- Wait, can you tell me what he said? Because I just, no, I'm serious.

Oh, really? Yeah, because I checked out. Broussard had something about on the show that they ran as a clip where it was basically like, if the Warriors win the title without Durant where it was basically like, if the Warriors win the title without Durant, it's a disaster for Durant. Put two asterisks on the other two titles, this whole thing. This would be the worst thing that could happen to Durant.

And Durant tweeted back at him, really? The worst thing that could happen to me? Did one of those Durant tweets. Yeah, he said, Kevin Durant's worst nightmare is coming true. Yeah. And he's like, really? My worst nightmare? Really?

Did one of those tweets back. The thing is, I think the other Warriors, who I also think read and listen to. Do you want to call them the OGs? The OG Warriors. That's a good one. I think they hear everything, too. And what was the narrative all season? This is the last run for them.

This is the last year. This is the end of their dynasty. K is the last year. This is the end of their dynasty. KD's going to leave and then it's going to blow up. And I think those guys are like, fuck that. This isn't the end of anything. If he leaves, we'll just get other guys and we'll still be really good next year. And we're still the favorites. And that's what these five games were about. It was about, we know that dude's leaving. We know people are pouring dirt at us already, but actually we're fine if he leaves. It's not personal. I'm sure they have a lot of respect for him. I'm sure they know they have a better chance if he's on the team.

But I think it was part, I think it was partly that. Don't pour dirt on us yet. We're not done. These, the three of us, plus a good supporting guys who know where to go and what to do are still really, really good at this. And that was what we saw. All of this may be true. And it, and it sounds like it might, but you know me, like sometimes I'm like, does anybody just win or lose? Or is there always have to be some other thing that's happening? You can't deny that they played at a different level of intense, like Draymond, the intensity that he had in those games was out of control. But isn't that also part of being an athlete

where you go, we all need to pick this up now because we don't have this safety valve that really nobody else has. That's a part of it too. Were you going to pick them? Is there any chance? I know this sucks.

You hate when I do this on the pod, but is there any chance they're just better than Portland and they're going to beat them anyway? Because those two guys are so good. I thought more was going on. You think... I'm kind of agreeing with you. I just think it's always important. Let me give you a personal scenario because

I love when bringing you into this. Van Pelt leaves the SVP and Rosillo show to go to SportsCenter. And as this three months leading up, you're reading all these stories, message boards and Twitter, and everybody's like,

well, Rosillo's done. That's it for him, right? He's fucking finished. Nobody will ever hear from him again. At what point do you be like, oh, really? And you're like, well, okay, we'll see. I'm going to show you guys like you would hear that and feel that and take that personally i definitely i definitely heard it because it was

actually that's actually true it's a good analogy like i don't think sometimes did you really hear that i didn't i don't read any of that stuff but i was hearing you're also not covered like the fucking warriors but you know you know what i mean? Close, but yeah. No, but I give them the edge. Big lead for the win. I had a guy reach out to me to be like, I've always loved you on the show. And you know, I'm sorry to solicit a work email here,

but like we have an editing gig at this, it's a podcast company. Like in case you, you know, you just need to get your career was over. Yeah. Like some people thought my career was ending, but that's how people are treating the Warriors

yeah people are treating the Warriors like and by the way I was guilty of it too I didn't have three years as Steph without Van Pelt though

so I can understand people doubting me a little bit more I think they really took all that shit personally and I think we're seeing it yeah I think they did I agree with you

but I also think they're better than these teams true so did you think that those three guys could get to the level they got to those last five games though? Because I'm not sure I did. A sweep?

I'm not sure. I never thought I would see... Look how easy it would have been game three. This is where your argument wins. For them in game three to be down, and after they beat them in the first two... Were they down 17? 17 points. And you go, eh, whatever. We're just going to lose this one. We'll be up 2-1. We'll get game four. That's how a lot of these teams look at this shit.

And they didn't. And then to have it happen in game four, like, nah, we'll pull this one out too. We'll play Steph 47 minutes. Let's just end this. Portland was up like eight or 10 with maybe, I don't know, seven minutes left. And the game was teetering toward Portland.

You just felt like they were going to win. They outscored them by eight in the fourth quarter. Right. Draymond got a rebound and it really felt like the game was slipping away. And it was one of those things where people started, you know, doing free form stuff, whatever.

And Draymond got the rebound and he just went down as hard as possible and ended up like making some play. I think he got fouled. And I realized they were going to win. And they were down eight. And I was like, ah, these guys, they got this. They're still playing as hard as possible.

The intensity competitiveness that they had has come and gone those first two Durant years. We saw it in game six, seven, Rockets, in the second halves of those games, where it was like their backs were officially to the wall and they all went to another level. I was amazed they were able to do it for all four Portland games because they haven't shown that in three years. No, they've shown killer instinct thing has not been there. They've replaced the killer instinct with arrogance at times,

but it's justified arrogance. Like they're the weirdest team sometimes because to run their system, not that they're running a ton of stuff, but for everybody to be in this flow, it means they're a smart basketball team. They're defensive rotations when they're Chris, a smart basketball team. But at times they look like

the dumbest smart team I've ever seen. Yeah. Because they make the worst passes of any good basketball team I've ever seen in my life. Just stupid shit. Flappiest. Right, right.

Throwing it behind your head. Right, game seven. Right. They, Steph, who's a really smart player just can't help himself with stupid fouls he doesn't manage his own fouls well yeah and I also think there's a level of arrogance that they've had which again it's hard not to be arrogant when you're this group where I think arrogance came into play in that first round against the Clippers and now it's like we can't we can have confidence, but we're not going to be

like, let's make sure that like our margin for error is not what it is. So yeah, the arrogance factor with them, I would have thought was going to show up in game three and be like, ah, whatever we lost. Not a big deal. We'll take care of these guys. And now to be able to just sit back and relax. And the funny thing is, is after maybe game six, but then the Durant injury news is worse. And then you see the start Milwaukee gets off to in that series. And it went from Golden State, Golden State, Golden State to, oh, wait a minute, it's Houston. Okay, wait a minute, they got rid of them, but there's no KD. This KD injury is even worse. Well, they're just going to lose to Giannis. And now I don't feel like anybody, like the storyline has changed overnight for about a week.

It feels like. And the narrative surrounding the team and then the big picture, all that stuff. I mean, I watched the beginning of the game yesterday and Doris was reporting and she's like, guys, I think the Warriors are, you know, that when they lost that game to the Clippers in the first round, that had an impact on them. They do not want that to happen tonight. And I was like, oh, the Warriors are going you know, that when they lost that game to the Clippers in the first round, that had an impact on them.

They do not want that to happen tonight. And I was like, oh, the Warriors are going to win. And really, the Myers-Leonard just, I mean, he had 25 points in the first half. That's like getting hit by lightning. It's never happening again. I think they were ready to win that game by 20. And Myers-Leonard just kept making threes for some reason. So he staved it off.

They still ended up winning. I, uh, he was five, eight from three. I mean, 30, 12,

three. Then Zach Collins made one. It's like, oh, so it's one of these games where, where Portland centers are going to make nine threes. Um, yeah,

they were 39%. So I thought, uh, from a big picture standpoint, it was so cool that it flipped the narrative to everybody being like, fuck these guys. So tired of this.

Just leave already. I'm done with the Warriors. Steph's a dick. All the stuff that everybody was saying. And then it flips in a week and people really appreciate how great this run was. I think five straight finals is out of control. And the LeBron people would be like, well, LeBron made eight.

It's like, well, he did it with two different teams, two different nucleuses. If he had stayed in Miami for that fifth year, he does not make the finals, I don't think. I think that team was falling apart. Bosh ended up getting hurt that next year, had the clotting issue. Wade wasn't playing enough games.

I just think it's hard to keep any nucleus together where you're winning three straight rounds for five straight years like that without something weird happening. Five straight finals to me is an all-timer. It's going to be even harder now, though. You want to know why? Because these guys

feel like they get emotionally drained in ways we've never seen before and this kind of gets back to like you and i being on this very early i think we were like the first people to talk about it how unhappy all these guys are yeah and and look we have a guy on this team that's unhappy and now the media around him is is creating another narrative to make him even more unhappy while the team like that's always one of the things i think is a great test for you. Like, do you ever think about the shit you've never told anybody that runs through your head?

Yeah. You know, like if you really were like, let me tell you the weirdest, I let it get upstairs. Yeah. When you were sitting there and you were like Durant's boy and you go,

what do you want to have happen if you don't come back and play? Because I know Kyrie didn't want the Celtics to beat LeBron without him. There's no way. Oh, definitely. There's no way. That's why he didn't go to Game 7.

Yeah, which everybody made an excuse for. He had his nasal surgery. You know how schedules get. Couldn't change the appointment. May's always busy for that kind of stuff. But I don't, I mean, what do you think, like, what do you think KD would be doing? Do you think he's rooting for all those guys? Well, he's reading everything.

He's reading now that he's now relevant and that the fun warriors are back. But see, I don't think that, right? Like, you and I don't think that. This, it can be both things. But they're really good. I mean, this whole thing to me isn't about, oh, wow, KD's overrated.

Oh, wow, they don't need KD. They're still better with Kevin fucking Durant. But it's just a nice little reminder of this is why we lost our minds about Steph. And this is why I don't get really that worked up when he has some bad shooting night. And I got to watch some guy talk about him not being top 10 because he decides

he wants to beat up on Steph all the time because I still think peak Steph is probably as scary as anything we have in this game. Well, the other thing is he has the ball more. It's not an accident that he did that. What do you go? 36, 37, 37, like whatever.

He scored the most points in a sweep ever. He had the ball more. And like anything else, you're more in a rhythm when you have it versus like in the back of your head, you've got to share it a little bit. Oh, I got to get this guy more involved. Their team just falls into place more

when it's what we saw these last four rounds. It doesn't mean their ceiling's higher. It just means they're more ISO and it's not as much fun to watch because they have basically the best ISO guy. And they have to involve. Here's the analogy I would use and Kyle can really identify this.

You haven't been to any dinners at my mom's house yet. No. My mom's an unbelievable cook. I thought it was going to be about Juul. No. No, thank God. No. My mom's an unbelievable cook. Sometimes my mom can make too many things. And so she'll do like the Italian, you know, the Italian dinner. So she'll make like meatballs and brajals. She'll make baked ziti. She'll make an awesome Caesar salad. And then she'll also make the red peppers which we had for Easter. And it was too much stuff.

And it was like- It was like Eataly, but inside. I had to eat everything and I just felt bad after. Whereas like maybe if there are no brajals, I just feel better after the dinner. I think the Warriors are a little bit like that where it's like maybe you don't need the five things at the dinner.

Maybe with three you're good and then you can fit in the McKinney and the Looney and Swedish Larry and you don't really need that much firepower. You never gave up on Swedish Larry. I never did. 7-0 for 5 plus minutes. Is he a max guy?

The thing is, they're just more fun. You replace Durant with a better version of Jurebko and, you know, whoever the 34-year-old guy is who wants a ring and a little shooting and you build the team around those three guys and kind of do what they did,

I think it would work. I actually think they're the favorites next year. I don't know if the odds are out for next year. Look, if they win this thing, it depends on what Durant's role is going to be here. And I don't know if that was them misdiagnosing or doing kind of the short lie. Just be like, let's give the best version of this news now.

I actually think that injury is a little worse than they were letting up. Right. Just be like, let's give the best version of this news now. I actually think that injury is a little worse than they were letting it. Right. So, well, we already, like, all the tea leaves are, how are we reading them? Like, oh, wait, another setback,

another setback. Well, you know, this is a whole medical language thing though. There's no such thing as a strained calf. It means you tore something in your calf

and it's not a full tear, but it's a slight tear, which means it's a strain and your calf is strained. Look at you. Have you had one? No, it's just like there's no, it's a fake word, strained. What does that even mean? It just means, I've heard this described before. It means slight tear versus tear.

If you say he has a slight calf tear, it sounds worse and people freak out. Strain is bullshit. So I think he had a slight tear in his calf and now you're trying to rally it back. But this goes back to the question I want to ask you. How do you ease him back into this now?

This has been like a fucking Warriors orgasm fest for a week. People are so happy to have this version of the Warriors back. Imagine if they lost game one and Durant's back or if they're up 2-0. I think that's the worst case scenario. Alright, so let's watch Wait a minute. Are we going there? Are you telling me like... They win two games in Milwaukee and

then Durant shows up and goes, Hey guys, good news. I'm back. And they're 7-0 without him going to Golden State where everybody's so happy to have this team back. So you'd bring them off the bench. Maybe you do. So you'd bring him off the bench? Maybe you do. You know who came off the bench once?

The legend, 1982. Cam Neely? No. He broke his nose and they had like a seven game winning streak without him. And then he came back and they brought him off the bench for like three weeks.

They went 18 straight. He was sixth man. So it has happened. That was always like that Celtics thing. Like we take a lot of pride in that sixth man thing. Yeah, sixth man. Because McHale.

It's a sacrifice. It's who finishes the games. Yeah. I want to be able to tell girls when I go out on the starter. Yeah. All right. So this is most.

I just like this version more. Yeah. No, we do. We both do. But it's not. Clay had more touches. Draymond's more involved. Curry's more involved. And it's like, all right so this is most i just like this version more because clay we both do but but it's more touches draymond's more involved curry's more involved and it's like all right now how do we fit duran in where all four guys can reach their maximum potential together because even in the two title things we never a thousand percent saw it somebody was always losing something and maybe that's just the way it goes it's got a it's got to matter in some way that Draymond hasn't been this good in three

years. As soon as Duran is out. But I look at that as simply effort, not movement, not movement around. he doesn't seem like he's in better shape. That looks like, yeah,

but I would, if I were a high school coach, I wouldn't be surprised if it came out there before the finals, as everybody's writing about this for a week where Draymond's like, yeah, I gave up drinking for the playoffs or I gave up carbs or there's some, he looks thinner and more explosive. Something's going on. What if he was like, I'm just, I pound vodka. I'm drinking more. Right.

I'm drinking more, which I eat less. I don't sleep anymore. I'm just drinking constantly. But it's soda water. Tonic, man. That quinine, it's out. Calories, I'm just pounding vodka sodas all the time. I'll tell you this much though. I do think it's lined up for the Warriors. What's interesting is they were minus 225 to win the title 36 hours ago. Now they're minus 200. The line's dropping. And I think it's because of the Iguodala thing and uncertainty about KD and all that stuff. But I just feel really confident they're going to win the finals no matter what happens.

I'd be shocked if KD wasn't ready for the finals with another week. Unless you have a torn calf. Yeah, but it's all- Then that's a four-week injury. This will be the part, though, for KD. This has all been fun, but I can't go too far down this road and say you'd rather just roll with this. How crazy would it be if he hurt his calf in the rehab and just never came back and they won the title with him?

They won the title and then he signed somewhere else? There's no precedent ever in the NBA history that would match that. That would be one of those things five years later you're doing a podcast and you'd be like, oh, remember? Like, Durant left. I don't know. I mean, it would seem in the moment like, I'm never going to forget this. Think all the stuff you forget and then

you could go. Nick's at Warriors and it's like, hey, we're going to give Kevin Durant his ring now. In the back. He was so instrumental in those first two rounds. He would, would he take it? Oh, he'd be so mad. He'd be so, how could you not be mad? So that's kind of gets back to that point.

Like he can't, he can't want them to win without him. If he's really hurt and he's not coming back. I don't know. I don't know how I'd feel. I'm an only child. So I would just be rooting for myself and any outcome. So I'd be like, I hope those guys lose. So I can come back and feel. I'm an only child. So I would just be rooting for myself and any outcome. So I would be like, I hope those guys lose.

So I can come back and save here. As an only child. There's no question. You guys are wired a little differently. I would be rooting against the Warriors in all five of those games. Actually, I would have rooted for them in game six, but then when the Portland series,

I'd be like, Oh, these fucking guys do this. Look, we can bring it back. Like there was a month Van Pelt took off. It was like the first time they took a month off. They looked at the ratings.

They went up. And I, and Scott went, there was a month van pelt took off it was like the first time they took a month off the ratings they went up and i and scott went like i'm just gonna admit i didn't love seeing that which was the greatest line ever that we were close enough where he was like what they went up huh and i mean it wasn't like then you're making excuses like wow it's football season yeah i started trying to remember like you was like, you know, I'm always hot around NBA free agency. Like that's what it was like that month. Yeah, it was like a good LeBron month, dude. Don't worry about it. You know, we had the baseball trade deadline heating up.

We're trying to figure out if some closers are going to be moved around. A lot of closers at play. It is great. I think Brendan Rush, there was like three teams in on him. I don't remember. I'm sure this has happened over the years. And we've seen it with like this team's definitely, I think Brendan Rush, there's like three teams in on him. I don't remember. I'm sure this has happened over the years. And we've seen it with like, this team's definitely,

like in the 95 Magic, they beat MJF. They beat the Pacers in the Eastern Finals. They're going into the finals. Right, but that was the weird MJ year, him coming back. Yeah, but when they went to the finals. I just want to make sure no Jordan fans freaked out. Yeah. Well, they've destroyed all tapes from there. They go to the finals.

They're like minus 400, minus 450. The Rockets, like they crawl in back to back, trying to go for the back to back champs. Hakeem's getting a little older. Everybody's like Orlando, here they come. Shaq and Penny, first title, it's going to happen. And then in a week it's over. And it's like, wow, Hakeem's great.

Shaq and Penny didn't have it. And it just flipped. We've seen that happen in the playoffs. I don't remember a narrative flipping where, where I like Kevin Durant's the best player in the league. And then a week later, it's like, the Warriors don't need Kevin Durant. This is insane. It's insane. Things change. Like I always thought it'd be fun and you could do this. And I almost wrote out the full tweet. I was going to do a thread of like how the stories changed every few days in the NBA playoffs yeah where you'd be going like you know LeBron doesn't want to see the first round is Wade like when he was still with Cleveland yeah

when you're like looking at the enemy like if he gets Wade in the first round like Wade's gonna know his deal like that's probably that's probably a matchup they're gonna want to avoid and then it's like or that team doesn't you know like or no it doesn't matter and all these things all these different things that would happen. This is unprecedented that the player who we thought, who I don't think we were wrong looking at it this way. I mean, Kawhi's been great. Giannis has been great. But it just feels a little bit more.

Yeah, but if you're telling me you're taking Durant over him at that point. And Steph had like a weird kind of, you you know below our standards for Steph stretch in the middle but even though I what didn't like it felt like he'd had more bad games than he actually had looking back at some of the stuff and then he's on this tear but yeah a week later to go do they need him to win another NBA championship but that's why the math is always you know we're not always great with math on this stuff because we'll go okay well how well, how are they going to replace this 30 points a game? Well, you're going to have two of the guys are the best shooters we've ever seen in the history of this game take more shots. That's a nice little problem solver.

You know, you're great when you can incorporate these dudes like McKinney, who I didn't even know officially what his name was until about three weeks ago. You could have told me it was Bryant. And then the last two weeks, I was like, oh, it's Alfonso, but I didn't know if it was with a Z or an S, and now I know it's with a Z. But they're just throwing these random dudes in, and that's a sign of a great team. Like the

mid-'80s Celtics and the mid-'80s Lakers, you could just grab the random Fred Roberts and make the finals with Fred Roberts' playing. That's kind of what they have. And going back to your point about how do you replace the KD points, it's pretty

replaceable when you have, as long as you have the three, you can fit everything else around that. And Iguodala shooting a game stick against Houston. He kind of paid for his sins though, right? He either got hurt. I guess he got hurt afterwards,

but the amount of time that he played in that last series, it was what we talked about a couple weeks ago in the pod. How he had to put the pedal to the metal in that series. Like there were ramifications with Iguodala. Nobody else. Nobody else was. No, but his shooting is when you're sitting there going, okay, this is going to have to defend this,

and then Iguodala hits those kinds of shots that keep you in the game in the first half when Steph has done nothing. What do you think Kevon Looney gets in free agency? A lot. I think he's really good. I tweeted that yesterday. I don't know.

I didn't check the replies, but I was just like, this guy's genuinely good? Yeah, really good might be an exaggeration, but I'm also going off of somebody who looked... How about genuinely good? Yeah, good. And he can do... When other teams go small, you can always be an exaggeration, but I'm also going off as somebody who looks... How about genuinely good? Yeah, good. And he can do...

When other teams go small, and you can always tell with an announcer, you go, this guy's locked in or this guy's not locked in. When it's like, oh, Looney's out there, bad matchup, and Looney will get switched on to a smaller guy, and you go, actually, Looney's pretty good at staying in front of smaller players. Don't worry about Looney.

Yeah. And it's kind of the default thing, like, oh, the switch, we got the guard in the center, this guy's going to go right by him. him you're like no looney looney fights his ass off man and looney you know i made a bad joke on twitter it was actually a good joke but it was it was nasty because i was like in this year you know and and this year's guest speaker at the tristan thompson big man camp is kavan looney who will help us understand how to make easy shots way harder because you know tristanistan has this habit of around the basket.

Like, he doesn't go up as quick. Like, he doesn't have that quick first or second jump. So, you can have more time to challenge, like, a bigger guy. And Looney used to bring the ball down or he'd turn wrong foot. And you just, you know. Now, they must have worked with him on that because he doesn't do that anymore. He doesn't do it anymore. Absolutely.

He's really good around the rim. I'm always shocked. There's a complete difference. It's one thing to be almost seven feet and get an offensive board, but if you're going to bring it down to everybody else and everything's awkward. So I'm blown away by his improvement. Also, really good hands with tough passes around the rim from close range. The lobs that he's finishing.

He wasn't doing that stuff before. I agree. Curry's career playoffs now, 106 games, 26, 5-6, with the 45-41-90 shooting splits.

Like he's, if you're talking about 100 games or more in the playoffs, he's now one of the 10 best playoff players of all time. By any statistical metric, I would say. I want to talk about Portland, but let's take a quick break. Let's talk about SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe Home Security.

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No, you can do it all from Inham Beach. He says, hey, Ryan, do you think we can ever beat Steph and Clay with Dame and CJ? Are we always at a disadvantage with that combo? What do I do? What do you tell him? We have one of the best backcourts in the NBA, maybe the second best.

Think about how excited we all were to get to the Western Conference Finals we know we're going up against maybe the greatest group ever assembled so let's not start figuring out ways to tweak our thing, let's not give up and that's always been the MO out of there anyway because I've talked with those guys in the past about it

where they have far more patience and constraint or however you want to frame it, than I think the outside world does. So, you know, there was a lot of thought they weren't even going to get out of the first round because of what Oklahoma City had done against them over the regular season. They swept them. And then they beat Denver. And I still think Denver played so poorly in game seven. They have to be- Denver left that on the table. Denver should not have lost that- I agree.

Series. But we both picked Portland and I feel like I got that series wrong so this happens it sucks all this excitement goodwill and then you're swept by a team without Durant but I would just go we need whoever that third guy is it's either going to be Zach Collins getting a lot better

and we'll just keep playing everybody can I give you the part two of Neil O'Shea talking to you? Yeah. Sorry, I had to find this. He says, hey, good news. Dame will sign the Supermax. And you go,

oh, that's cool. Just out of curiosity, what are those numbers? And he says, well, funny you should ask, we just ran them down. Yeah, he's like, why don't you have this?

So starting 2021, 22, he'll be 31 years old and turning 32 during that season. First year of the super max, 42.6 million. Next year, 46. Year three, 49.4. And then year four, 2024, 25. He's 34 going into that year. He'll be 35 during that season. 52.8 million.

What do you think we should do, Ryan? Can, can he take it? Can he sign it now? Cause that's the reality of it. We just got off a week ago. We were talking about this guy going,

he's the third best guard in this league behind two all time offensive players. He's second team, all NBA. We've gone over his all NBA resume. So you're not worried about paying him 53 million when he's 35 years old. You know what we need to do is we need to, like, I always thought a website should do this. You have one. Oh, I did. Is when the cap went up, we should have done like just the cap calculator where, hey, if you were 17.5, now with this new cap structure, 17.5 just means 26.8. Yeah.

That's all it is. So we need to stop looking. This still feels new. So with the Supermax, we actually need to just start looking at these things as the cost of doing business. And I'd rather do it with somebody like him who doesn't have any issues, seems to like it in Portland, who's as team first as it gets and stays healthy. There's one issue. What? That you just skipped over. Just name me a little guy who aged well into their mid thirties.

In the history of the league. Who stayed. Isaiah was over early. Isaiah was retired when he was like 32. Right. Yeah. It was bad. So I'm trying to,

I'm trying to think of little guys. I'll give you the complete list. Yeah, I know you have it. So you got like Tiny Archibald. Right. Iverson. Iverson didn't age well, but that had nothing to do with his size. Eh, maybe a little bit.

No, I would say the casinos and the other stuff probably do. I would say the helicopter runs right after a game, and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Chris Paul? He's not aging well. John Stockton. Great. He was still awesome right to the end.

Had to play him, yeah. But they pretty much had him on the 32 minutes a game thing from the moment he turned 30. No kidding, really? Yeah. Yeah. They were very careful about how they used his minutes. That's fine.

Like, I'm not going to give you all these names because I understand the position. Like, small guys like that wear out. I think it's completely unrealistic that he is still an NBA player for the last two years of that contract. So what would you do as Portland? Wait until the next huge name guy, like a top? No, I think you have to do it. You're not getting another top 10 guys.

You just pay him. Yeah, you just pay him. You have to do it, but it sucks, which leads me to my second point. Why wouldn't with the Supermax, they make a rule, and I know they have a new CBA coming up, that the Supermax franchise player,

whatever you want to call it, just counts for a certain figure, but you can still pay the player over that figure. So if you do Supermax, it's $34 million or 35 or whatever, and that's just it. But he can still make his 52, but it's worth 35. Now you're rewarding people who get to stay in the same city for longer,

which is allegedly what the league wants, which leads me to my third question. I'm not sure that's what the league wants. I think they like the turnover. I think they like the turnover. I think they like, you know, even going back to the ladder, if you're going to say, well, if they're going to fix the ladder, they'd fix it to the Knicks. I'm not sure. It actually might be better for them to have superstar, potential superstars go to small markets that they can then leave in

four to seven years and then have everybody talking about it for 12 straight months versus Zion going to the Knicks where he's never going to leave. Do you think that, okay, so there's a lot there. Yeah. I just hand you a full play. Right.

It's seven years control because we still don't have that guy. Like, you know who was the first one rumored ever was that Kyrie was going to pass up all the rookie extension money. We should have known then. Kyrie. That was like the first guy I'd ever heard it.

Like, nope. He was really seriously considering it. Yeah um it's too much money it's it would be abject insanity to pass it up okay well the first thing about the supermax the unintended consequence of this is that it's all so much money now is that it doesn't matter so the impact that it was supposed to have is not actually that impactful it It's impactful on your salary cap. No, it's impactful there, but it's not having the impact on slowing the player movement down. They would have not put that in place if they liked what was happening. The owners don't like the power shift, and I don't think Silver likes the power shift.

So yes, we talk about it. It's really fun. I can't wait for the weeks leading up to July and then ultimately July itself. We've gotten really excited about one dude in previous summers and now we have, it feels like almost 10 guys that are all in play here. Every year there's six to nine guys that we're super excited about. But this is unprecedented.

This one is for this July. Now you have D'Angelo Russell as an afterthought who if the Brooklyn gets another point guard like Kyrie or Kemba or whoever he's just on the market as somebody who might make an all-nba team two years from now that you can just if you're Orlando you'd be like oh cool there's the point guard we've wanted for five years yeah we'd never get him in free agency and figure out a way well uh they would have to

I mean they still have his his rights so that be, I don't think he would just be, unless they had to renounce it to go get the other guys. That's what exactly would have to happen. Yeah. Do you think, okay, let me just kick it back to you then. Do you think the owners like the players having all of this control?

No. Because, right. So I don't think they like having to give Dame Lillard $52.8 million when he's 35 years old and he's six feet tall. Are you saying that there's a cap on the figure you can give him or that it only counts towards the salary cap

to a certain dollar and then they can pay him whatever they want? That's what I'm saying. I'm saying the number for the cap. It's 36, say. It's 35, whatever. And it's just frozen. I understood that. But is that number beyond? Because this has always been, say, right? 35, whatever. And it's just frozen. I understood that.

But is that number beyond, because like this has always been one of the things that's come up. Like, okay, well, if you really, really want to cut down on player movement, which I think you and I are agreeing the owners would rather have.

And it's not the player, they just want the control. They want to be able to control it. So if you could say, all right, let's sign a player and we can sign him for whatever we want to, but every dollar over this number doesn't. You can sign him for 70,

but it counts for 35. The owners aren't going to agree to that either because they're not, the owners have all these things in place, whether it's the trade restrictions. So maybe you have a max, maybe the max is 50 million, but they only count for 35.

I'm sure the GM should be fine with that. But what the owners are going to do is they just know they can't help themselves. So they try to collectively agree to things that prevent them from doing everything that you're saying that you know they would do. And then I think I get back to the stuff that we kind of grew up with, with some of the first max players, where it was just default, the best player on all 30 teams got the max. And then next thing you know, you're like, why is Antoine Walker making the max? That was tough. That was Antoine Walker, Big Country Reeves,

Rafe LaFrance. Rafe got it. All six years. All six-year deals. Seven. If the home team. A couple of Jalen, I think, got a seven-year.

Well, we used to be seven with the incumbent team on the max. Yeah, Jalen was like two years before. And Jalen's was like seven years,

95 million. The owners could go back to that. There'd be less player movement. And then it'd be awesome because then we'd have trade demands. Be like, I have four years left in my contract. I've been here long enough. That's tough.

I don't know how you fix it. I'm with you on Portland. I would not do anything, but I do wonder if Philly called and was like, can we talk about CJ and Ben? Now CJ is going to get mad because for the fifth straight summer, I'm throwing him in a trade rumor. if Philly called and was like, can we talk about CJ and Ben? Now CJ's going to get mad because for the fifth straight summer, I'm throwing him in a trade rumor.

But if Philly called Portland and was like, let's talk about CJ and Ben. Let's have a serious conversation about it. Well, you wouldn't do that if you were Portland, would you? That'd be perfect for Philly. CJ's making like 25 and Ben's making like seven. Yeah, but if I look at the sheet here, Portland's so high still because of the Evan Turner deal.

He's at 18-6. Yusuf's 12. Moe Harkless is 11-5. Myers Leonard's 11-3. Oh, my gosh. They're not getting off of this. But they're paying a major tax though. And they're trying to sell the team.

I think with every number I have in front of me, they're at like 128, 127. That's a disaster. So even if you save the money on the money going out for Simmons or the money going out with CJ and the money coming in, you know, it's like the old. I was thinking about it. It makes less sense for them. It's an incredible

trade for Philly. It's so good for Philly. It was actually so much fun. We should do this every week now. A different CJ McCollum trade for you. Because he took it... I don't think... I know you and I know the game enough of how we do this. And then CJ

felt like it was very personal on him. It wasn't at all. I know it wasn't. I know it wasn't. For me, it was more like, I'd rather see him on his own team. Yeah. Now I want it to be personal.

And I want every week you to bring your homework assignment is a different CJ McCollum trade. I want even like game four. I was mad. They ran the final play for Dame. And it's like, I'm sorry. I was just,

that ball should go to CJ on the last play. I know Dame made the 37 footer, but that was a lifetime ago. Yeah, and the other thing, like, think about all the scoring combos we wonder. Like, is this really the best way for them to play together?

Are these guys always going to be... And it works. It works for them. And whatever their level, like, this is a successful year for the Portland Trailblazers. Great year. Especially coming off

of what happened in the playoffs last year. And, yeah, I don't know. I always wonder if I would be a terrible GM at a press conference because I would just say, yeah, we lost to a better team. I know they don't have Durant, but those guys are really good. I know it's disappointing to get swept, but we're pretty happy with what

just happened and we want to keep this team together. Or you could argue that it was a complete fluke that the three best teams in the West all ended up in the same bracket. Houston, Utah, Golden State. Just randomly all ended up in the same bracket. Playing a free-for-all

in round one and then the winner by the conference finals. Yeah, you could do that. I think a year later, we're looking at some of the stuff that happened in the East playoffs last year. People should stop bragging about making the Eastern Conference Finals last year. I was looking up the All-NBAs. I was trying to think like winning five years, making the Finals five years in a row.

I was trying to put in my head how unbelievable that was. Well, the Magic 9 and 12 years never gets brought up. Like Magic Johnson making it to nine NBA Finals in 12 years. But the West was really bad during most of that stretch. I don't know who they were ever going to lose to. The East was so much more loaded. Yeah. And then with this Warriors thing.

There were second and first round matchups in the East growing up back then where you're like, these are two good teams. Like Milwaukee would never beat anybody. They beat, what, Boston in 83. But yeah, so anyway, back to your point. Just the teams and the players Golden State had to go through for those five years is basically most of the good players of the league.

I went and looked through the LNBA. Oh, how many guys they had to go through, yeah. Just who the best players in the league are. Are they in the East or the West? I'm looking through the year-by-year NBA. Last year, LeBron, KD, Davis, Harden, Lillard were your first team on the NBA. Four of those five guys were in the West.

The year before, same thing. Four out of five guys in the West. The year before, same thing. Four of the five guys in the West, although one of them was DeAndre Jordan. So not totally fair, but Durant was second team. DeAndre was first team? Yeah, because they were still picking center. Year before, it was LeBron, Davis, Gasol, Curry

Harden. LeBron was the only guy from the East until this year who was first team on NBA dating back to Joakim Noah in 2013- 2014. I love Noah that year. And then before that... Actually, this is incredible. So then before that... This is actually like

really... Four out of five, 2012-13 season. Who was the other one? Derrick Rose, 2012, with LeBron and Dwight Howard. That was the first time the East had more good players than the West.

2012, the East was better than the West. That was the last time you could say that. It feels like the only time you can say it in the last 15 years, too. Yeah.

You know, I was listening to Verno on KFC today talking about that Grizzlies-Warrior series. could say that it feels like the only time you can say it in the last 15 years too yeah you know i was listening to verno on kfc today talking about that grizzlies warrior series when they were up to one yeah and verno is really passionate about um people not remembering tony allen's hamstring injury in that series because he was like that series went seven and our best defender tore his hamstring in game four and kept playing after. And there's this whole narrative about how the Warriors fought back, came back from 2-1. That's how they learned how to win. That 2015 Warriors title, I unfortunately was not at that point.

That's when I left ESPN. I think they're in round two. But that title is a really weird title. I think that's one of the weirdest titles we've had. Because then they play the Cavs in the finals and everybody's gone but LeBron and the Cavs. I think that was also the year the Clippers lost to the Rockets when

they blew. It really should have been the Clippers winning the title that year. You go back and look at it. Doc basically was saying that too. Yeah, they were the best team that year and somehow didn't win. And the Warriors were like a year early, but won anyway. Next year was the year the Warriors reminded me when the Pats won the

Super Bowl or made the Super Bowl in 96. But they should have made it the next year and it was just a year early. Somehow the Warriors won. Anyway, my point is the West is like really crazy good and has been for seven years. And to make the finals five years in a row is fucking hard.

Durant, Westbrook, Duncan, all those dudes that have been hardened, all these dudes, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, these were all like top three, top four guys. By the way, I just want to – they beat Memphis in six games. Six games, sorry. Sorry, Chris Vernon. No, I just, I,

they're down, they win the first game by 15. Wait, wait, wait, wait. They lose the next two. They start to get tight. Yeah, no, I remember that,

but I'm just trying to Then game four is in Memphis. They lose, right, game four in Memphis, they win by 17, then they won by 20, and then they won by 20 and then they won by uh 13 i don't remember it being as close honestly you know what that sounds like from verno it

sounds like you remembering something with the celtics that nobody else would remember i'd like to saw if tony allen doesn't get hurt there's no warriors dynasty yeah yeah i think it's insane that's a good yeah that's a good quarter. I want Verna to keep going with that one. That hamstring injury nobody ever talks about. Everybody talks about them putting Bogut on Gasol.

Excuse me, Bogut on Tony Allen so that he can help off of them the whole time. The first year the Warriors won the title, on the first three all-NBA teams, you only had LeBron, you had Pau Gasol second team, and you had Kyrie third team. Then the next year, LeBron first team, nobody second team, Paul George, Andre Drummond, Kyle Lowry, third team. Yikes. The next year, LeBron, first team. Isaiah, second team. Jimmy Butler, John Wall, and the

Rosen, third team. John Wall. John Wall. It's a highlight for him. But the point is, 75% of the really good players who are in the West are in this whole run. And it's impressive. It has to be mentioned. Anything else we got before you want to do Thrones? We haven't even done Magic. really good players who are in the West during this whole run. And it's impressive. It has to be mentioned. Anything else we got before you want to do Thrones?

We haven't even done magic. No, tell me about, oh shit, magic. All right, let's do magic. All right, well, you go first. Because you, this was, we weren't even sure we were doing a pod together this week. And I get a text this morning. It's like, really, really want to talk about the Lakers.

Are you here? I said, give me the time. I'll be there. I was in disbelief. You were live tweeting the'll be there. I was in disbelief. You were live tweeting the whole first take experience. I was in disbelief. I couldn't believe. Did you set your day around it? Or were you like, all right, no.

Somebody texted me about like 7.13 and was like, are you watching first take? And I was like, no, why? Magic's on. I was like, running TV. It was so many highlights. So first you have him bristling at the fact that he thought him and Jeannie had an agreement that he was only going to work part-time, basically. I told her I was going to be in and out.

I don't know what she was expecting. Did he really say that about not getting into the movies on Sunday? Yes. What was the line? He was like, I gave up all this stuff. People said and work hard, one of my favorite things is to go to the movies on Sunday night.

I gave that up. He was like, me and Cookie would go to the movies on Sunday nights. I stopped doing that. But he was basically like, how dare Rob Palenka, the backstabber Rob Palenka, question my commitment to the Lakers when I had already made it clear that I own all these other businesses,

I made a lot of money, and this is how it was going to have to be. And it was like, you're just explaining why you were terrible at this job because you were doing it in a part-time way. Then he goes through and he's like, he randomly mentions four of the worst moves he made. He's like, well, Russell, we had to get him out randomly mentions four of the worst moves he made. He's

like, well, Russell, you know, we had to get him out of there. Cause the little swaggy P thing. Yeah. It's like, all right. So you're trading the number two pick of the draft two years after you drafted him because of some weird incident he had with somebody who's no longer on your team. Great. Noted. Then it's like, uh, then Zubats, what were his stats? He puts Max Cumberland on the spot. What are, what were his stats? He puts Max Cumberland on the spot. What were his stats? And Max looks up, he's like, five points, five and a half rebounds. He's like, yeah, exactly. Like, basically, he was like mad that anybody-

Because Muscala's been awesome. Yeah, well, he was like, but he took accountability for that. He's like, look, I was wrong. I thought Muscala was going to add some shooting. He didn't. And it's like, this is why you were terrible at your job. You're missing the point. Zubats, whatever you think,

was at least an asset to throw in a trade. Don't throw me his averages. It doesn't matter what a 21-year-old... Yeah, right. Yeah. So the fact that he didn't even understand that was an asset was crazy. And then he is...

What was the other terrible moves he made? Oh, he talked about... What was the other bad movie he made? Brooke Lopez. Brooke Lopez, Brooke Lopez. He took, yeah. He was like, Randall, you know, Randall and LeBron, that couldn't have existed together. So he's like, and Randall got two years.

So we had to let him go. And by the way, Randall Zion, should they look to trade one of those guys? Coming up next. Why this Randall Zion thing won't work. Next on Get Up. I like that he just was like, we couldn't have done Randall, you know, with LeBron. And it's like, but instead you gave all of his money to like KCP. Like what?

But you could do Malik, but like Michael Beasley. Yeah. Malik Beasley is the one I like. And then he's like, Brooke Lopez. Yeah, that was a mistake. I was like, yeah, I would hope so. I would hope you would feel that was a mistake. I wanted him to go undefeated.

You had no shooting bigs. I wanted him to just be like, I think he's better in Milwaukee system. Wouldn't have worked here. But then... That would have been great. But then even with the Russell thing, it's like, you know, we did get Kuzma out of that. It's like, okay.

But it was just, he was so out to lunch in so many different ways and really going after Plinka. And the crazy thing is he's doing this whole, I love the Lakers. Jeannie's like my sister. I'd love to be involved in the recruiting. It's like, you just blew up the Lakers. They're already a joke. You made them seem like an even bigger train wreck of backstabbing people. He mentioned the two Bruss brothers. They wanted more power. He mentioned Tim Harris, the CFO, or what is the CMO? He's like the business affairs guy. He's like that guy now wanted more power.

And basically you leave this first take thing and you go, wow, I knew they were a shit show. They're like a fucking tipped over port-a-john. But you love the Lakers. And then on top of it, they're announcing their coach that day.

So he's submarine that. I thought it was one of the most selfish things I've seen. I really like lost respect for him. If you're Magic Johnson, you're walking around this planet a little different, right? You're just a different guy. How could you not have a massive ego if you were Magic Johnson? You're a superstar.

You should have a massive ego. You have delivered on so many different fronts. So this has felt like magic looking at it like, how do I fix this for magic? Like, how do I do all of this stuff so that everybody knows that I'm still cool? Like, so that that city still loves me, so Lakers fans still, and they're always going to love him

because he was an awesome player. But that's what it felt like. Like him going, I'm going to go in here and kick ass on this thing, but I'm going to get the message out and get the message out loud and clear. So like, I don't take any hits. I don't take any hits down the road here. But in doing that,

like now you have more questions. I don't think anybody, no one thought when Magic got this gig in the beginning that he's going to be grinding and doing all these different things. So- I thought it was more ceremonial. I didn't know that they were actually-

I thought it was a guy to come in and talk to other superstars and get meetings with guys you hadn't gotten in the past. Because that was weird that the Lakers were missing out on meetings with B-level stars in this league. Okay?

So, if Palenka... If it was understood... We can all make a bunch of magic jokes, but this is the part where I'm actually a little sympathetic to Magic. I think we all knew that he wasn't going to be like, all right, well, I'm headed up to Big Sky again. I'm going to be there for three days scouting regular season games. Everybody knew he wasn't going to be is that I think we all knew that he wasn't going to be like, all right, well, I'm headed up to Big Sky again. You know, I'm going to be there for three days, scouting regular season

games. Like everybody knew he wasn't going to be doing that. So if that's not what was expected of him, then fuck anybody for knocking him for that when it was all sort of understood ahead of time. But the weird thing that happens with massive egos, because Palenka's got an ego and he should, very successful agent, you know, Kobe's guy, that whole thing. And on top of that, now you're in a city where everybody's wondering if you actually don't know what you're doing. And so you want to stick up for yourself. You don't have to love it either. Yeah, not at all.

Not at all. We need to get to that because this is a real thing that's happening with this Lakers front office. And it picks up, you know, being that Chicago for who clearly complained about Magic, if you believe the Rick Buecher story, which seems very specific that there were these emails going around where Palenka wasn't removing Magic from the CC complaining about Magic. Right, forgetting he was on the email chain. Yeah, and Magic saw that, which actually makes me worry about your skills about anything. Magic claimed that wasn't true in the first take thing. I don't know what to believe there. It seemed like a very specific thing.

Maybe it's not, but when something's specific like that, you're like, well, how would that lie? Like, what would be the origin of that lie if that didn't really happen? So if you're Palenka, are you ripping magic for doing what everybody thought he was going to end up doing? Like, did it become one of those corporate things where everybody understands, hey, we're all on the same page.

We all know what the roles are and the expectations of each other. But now that I'm in it and it's happening and you're not working as hard and you're not around, maybe there's not an office for you being in it. I resent it more. And now I'm going to complain to the bus family about you behind your back. So I don't think that's what happened. I think, so I looked at Magic's Twitter feed last year and one of my favorite Magic Twitter traditions out of many of them is when he goes on vacation for five weeks in the summer and he posts pictures of his vacation with Sam Jackson and all this stuff. I just really enjoy it because I still love magic. I loved working with him. That's why I was so

disappointed that he handled this whole thing this way. He was gone for five weeks last summer and he's just tweeting from like, now I'm in Italy. Now I'm in France. Hey, I'm in Monaco. And I'm sure at some point, you know, now we're heading into September. Yeah, but that's a dead period. I'm out of here. I know, but it's early September and I'm sure at some point they'd be like, hey, we're going to have a meeting about talking about

possible training camp guys and Polenko says something like, by the way, I'm not defending Polenko, but Polenko's like, well, you know, Magic's still on his trip. You know, and just a little barb. And then somebody passes that along. And then you have the two bus brothers who are like, where's Magic? And it becomes a narrative in the office.

Oh, great. Magic's actually here today. And he, at some point, probably heard through the grapevine that this was going on and got pissed off about it would be my guess okay but how different do you think what you've just said is from what i just said i think we're saying the same thing like in it when you're in it you're like oh magic's not here again i roll yeah and then it gets back to him but i don't think i don't think palinka my point is i don't think palinka was like trashing him i just don't think he was defending him here's the bigger problem the Lakers have, okay?

And then Ramona has the piece on Jeannie Buss today where Jeannie's like- It's kind of harsh for, I thought they were, Ramona I always felt like was pro-Jeannie in the pieces. That one was not pro-Jeannie. No, but it was definitely defining Jeannie as all of this is still a shock to me because I kept asking Magic,

hey, what's going on? What's going on? He said nothing. He says nothing. And then he goes on and trashes the whole setup on first take, which I do think I agree with you here where it's like his calculations were off on that.

Like he went there to go save himself, protect himself, build himself back up. And then he ended up saying some things where you're like, man, what are you doing here? But this goes- The timing of it was an absolute atrocity.

And it had to have been on purpose. Right. Well, if you know that they're announcing the coach that day, you got to move the first take appearance at that point. You can't be like, oh no, this would be great if I go on first take and call Rob Plink a backstabber unless there's way more going on that we don't know yet. Now there's a possibility that there's 80% of the story

we don't know and it's way worse and Poincare did some really scary, shady shit or whatever. I don't believe any of that, by the way. Do you not believe that? No, I think,

I think Magic didn't trust him. I don't think, I think he was tired of being ridiculed because the Lakers sucked. So then that gets back to Genie. And he just didn't want to do it anymore. But that gets back to Genie.

That gets back to like, okay, well, what was the plan here? You can't put two guys together that don't want to be together. Well, true. And now they're doing it again with the coaching thing. I mean, the world that we live in

that somehow we think Vogel is settling after Ty Lue and Monte Williams. And Vogel's, yeah. How did that, like, oh, I guess we'll take Vogel. Vogel versus Monte Williams. You wanted Monte Williams that bad? Like, what are you?

And then, okay, well, just to make it really fucked up, let's put Jason Kidd on the staff, though. Because that appeases LeBron. That would be great. And, you know, Jason Kidd will end up probably being the head coach

because LeBron will complain about Vogel at some point. Like, I mean, that's just how all this stuff feels. But the origin of it was always like other teams around the league had real concerns about magic the tampering

thing not saying i don't the tampering thing i don't care about i don't but other teams freak out teams are very inconsistent with like when another team signs one of the restricted guys do an offer sheet the team will complain to me and be like oh you know what the hell i can't believe they did this like dude you just did the same thing a year ago like you guys all do the same shit yeah so i don't but there's such an anti-lakers thing going on around the rest of the league that this is the part where i don't think genie fully understands it like there's a lot of people that don't love the magic part and now that he's out there's a lot of guys that don't really love palinka now doesn't mean they can't get a deal done. Can people stop apologizing for Jeannie, though?

Because here's the thing. I don't know what that's about. I never really understood it, and now everybody sticks up for her all the time. Well, she's a brilliant business lady, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, she's been absolutely horrific. Repeat, horrific as a Lakers owner. Horrific. Their whole family has been the worst

ownership group of this decade. I'm including James Dolan. Are you including Robert Sarver? Yeah, I think they've been the worst. I think what we've seen the last thing is the nadir of any ownership group this decade. Because the reality is when you're the owner, your number one skill is hiring people or deficiency, either or. Your judgment in who you're surrounding and building your inner circle with and who you're going to trust the day-to-day decision-making is the most important skill that you can have other than paying for players. Like Paul Gaston with the Celtics way back, just didn't want to pay for players. That leads to the Vin Baker trade.

If you're paying for players, which the Lakers aren't afraid to do, then the only other skill you have is, am I hiring the right people? She thought it was a good idea to keep Kupchak. She thought it was a good idea to put Magic and Palenka together. What the fuck? Yeah, right. I mean, that's on her because the origin of it. That's her call. How are we doing this? All right, well, Magic's going to be this, and then you're going to be this.

All right, well, what's the experience? I thought they had a relationship, but apparently they didn't. So they were just thrown together. Well, it sounds like Kobe was like, hook this guy up. And then, all right, so we have Magic as the face. We have him as the superstar of the front office. We know he's not going to work as much, but Rob, I don't think an agent can't do the job. I don't think that's

fair, but it sounds like the Kobe part. Well, the Bob Myers shadow, I think, loomed over this because Bob Myers, former agent, becomes a great GM. And that made people think, well, why can't that work as well? You don't think it's Lon Babby? Lon Babby didn't work as well. You know what I was really rooting for?

Now I'm removing my analyst hat and just putting my Celtics fan hat on. I was rooting more than anything for Kobe to get mad about Magic's, Poinca's comments and Kobe to lob a grenade at Magic. There's still time. Leading to a Kobe Magic Lakers civil war, which would have polarized that fan base what would

they have done that that is like the all-time mom and dad are fighting and i don't know what to do moment of an nba fan base what's that movie is it divergent what i don't know where they have different factions no you got it yeah well what are the different ones kyle shit well i just know it's divergent right so it's like this futuristic thing where these divisions, like that's what it'd be like walking around downtown LA. Like Kobe guys would have like certain patches and then Magic guys would have patches. And like if they ran into Jamba Juice at the same time,

like it'd fucking go down. The Kobe DNA is deeper. Yeah, like kale smoothies, right? Oh, Laker flags being planted. The Kobe numbers. The Kobe people are just like, we're with Kobe to the death, no matter what he does.

They're like, you think you want to fight? Yeah. We're not fighting this war to win. We're fighting for it to never end. Yeah, that's a land war. Yeah. You're going to the jungle with the Kobe fighters. They're just taking you forever.

I'm afraid of even doing this segment we're doing right now. There's nothing like, I mean, the Bayhive for Beyonce is the craziest fan base ever where people are actually afraid to criticize her

because they don't want the fans to come at them. There's no sports equivalent of that, but Kobe's probably the closest. Kobe's the closest. The Kobe fans are out of their minds. Yeah.

They're out of their minds. I don't think there's another, I mean, it is on the level of that. Like, there isn't another athlete you can really compare it to. They think he's better than LeBron. They actually think, like, on any list,

he should be higher than LeBron James. They completely ignore... They genuinely think that. When he spent all summer saying, I'm done with this place. Right. And then said, don't trade too much for me

so the new team doesn't suck. And then I'll have Kobe freaks get mad about that sentence. Like, you always bring that up. Like, yeah, because it's funny. Because it's funny that like Mr. Like if it wasn't for the Pau Gasol thing, you know, that thing would have ended so different where they were gift wrapped him.

Or he made them trade Shaq. Yeah. But he also, Shaq wanted a hundred million dollar contract, which I think at the time people are a little scared of and at the end of it the move was to just play it out have him get his free agent year and just let him leave instead they took remember they took that giant Brian Grant contract back when he got traded uh it was like 40 cents on the dollar when the Miami Heat Phoenix trade happened I thought it was a joke. I remember working that night.

Oh, for Marion? Yeah. And they go, hey, Shaq got traded. And I went, what? And then it was Shaq diss and Robert Sarver with like foam fingers being like,

fucking right. Yeah. I actually liked that trade for Phoenix. You did? No. No. I still feel like that Sun Spurs 2008 series,

if it's played 10 times, they win five of them. And then who knows? Maybe they beat the Lakers at that point I remember Van Pelt ripped on Bieber once wow and that went bad like ended up on USA Today like sports personality gets in a fight with the believe the believers we haven't said anything that would make the Kobe

fans mad because it's more like they're listening to it going yeah you're fucking right you're right we. You're right. We have Kobe's back. What's your point? What's your point, Boston guys? You got a problem with that? You got a problem with us being fans of Kobe?

What? Yeah, whatever. You like Kyrie. I'm like, eh. Yeah. How's your Boston team doing? How's that 67 win team doing? Huh?

Let's take a break. We'll come back. All right. We're going to play a throne game because we're so didn't get to do it on Sunday night. So we're giving him a shot to give his take on the end of Game of Thrones. Speaking of the series for now of hashtag talk to thrones, Chris Ryan, Mally Rubin, Jason Concepcion, Emmy winner. Noon PT on Twitter. So three o'clock East Coast, noon PT, Wednesday, May 23rd. You can listen to them wrap up everything that they felt after thinking about it for a couple of days,

reading all the stuff online and all that stuff. So join there. You can go ask some questions, whatever you want. Hashtag talk to thrones, Three o'clock ET, noon PT. There you go. Oh, and don't forget our YouTube channel, by the way, because if you like Throne Game, go to youtube.com slash ringer.

All of the Throne Games we've played, we've pulled out of this podcast and made little special YouTube quips. So if you're home one night, it's two in the morning, just watch like eight of them in a row and have like a big gulp. It'll be great. It's a great way to end the night.

Check that out. All right, it's time. All right, Throne Game. You got an unbelievable compliment from my wife Sunday night. About 20 minutes into the final episode, she goes, I miss Rosillo and his comic relief during the episode. I wish he was here. She did.

Kyle was a witness. We missed your comic relief during the episode. I wish he was here. She said it. She did. Kyle was a witness. We missed your comic relief on Sunday night because we've watched the other Thrones episodes with you. Yeah, I got to tell you, it wasn't the same watching it today, this afternoon, after the gym. Not with the Simmons family. No, not with you guys.

You usually have a couple of good lines in there. Yeah. And then Ben swings by and just napalms, like whatever scene, you you know it's always gonna be like all right pause we're gonna reset the decks here ben just farted and left yeah um all right so what were your thoughts ending a great show is probably one of the hardest things to do right movies you know to get the thing made you probably have to come up with some decent ending or it's just one movie that somebody wants to do um i started thinking back of like shows and how i liked how they ended i've always looked

the wires my favorite show that's not a small group they ended it just by being like look the shit just keeps happening over and over again and that was david simon's point which i loved that he wasn't trying to give us this ending that didn't exist yeah but i think that's hard to get things made that way but when you look at the history of The Wire, like I felt like it was going to get canceled after every single season anyway. So it was kind of like this weird thing and how he was always able to like get HBO to buy back in,

which is awesome. So if you're trying to end this thing in a way that works for everybody when it's already been a season that everybody's been dumping on. And I know that I have a little of this in me too, where if everybody's saying something, sometimes I'm not even basing like, hey, did I enjoy sitting down watching these

episodes? Well, yeah, there's some things I had issues with, but I can't stand kind of that Bayhive protective Game of Thrones group that takes it way too seriously and has lost their shit and started a petition to have it redone. Like I start to hate them so much that I start to enjoy the episodes maybe more than I should. So I'm so in my own head about the whole thing you're zagging yeah that I don't even know I don't even know who I am anymore I didn't love the finale it was a real simple test for me I kept getting distracted during it like I would look at my phone or I pulled something up and then I go I didn't really pay attention to what just happened there rewind it when he kills Danny I thought it was really cool

because there was a little bit of suspense of like who stabbed who, because you hear the blade go in and then it's this breath and they're both sort of looking at each other. And it felt like if you're going to have Jon Snow kill Danny, like what else do you need? What else do you need in finale?

And I also think they were trying to do something that was impossible. What was going to be the twist I mean we already had like two amazing battle scenes and just a six episode stretch here so what was going to happen I thought the beginning was really cool but all in all it it didn't didn't have a moment I guess I was asking for them to do something that I can't sit here and tell them what they were supposed to do. Not even as a writer?

As a writer, I struggled. Because whenever you're pitching this stuff, it's like, okay, how's it end? How's it end? And with this, it was like, I will figure it out. Here's where I've landed. I realized afterwards that

with every series finale, everyone is just disappointed afterwards. Because it's happened with every great show of our lifetime, except for Breaking Bad. All right, so why weren't people disappointed with Breaking Bad? Because we knew how it was going to end. We knew it was going to die at the end and that was it. It had to end that way.

I'm on season five. Shit. Oh. I'm just kidding. I got scared for a second. But with that one, it was like we knew how it was going to end, so you could just enjoy the show for what it was. It wasn't like seven other variables.

Anytime it's open-ended for how it's going to end, everybody wants it to end this way, this perfect way that they have in their head, and it's just never going to get there. I thought The Wire season finale, however you feel about season five, I loved the season finale. I thought it was one of the best season finales ever,

if not my favorite one. I thought they wrapped up every, they wrapped up kind of an awkward plot with the journalist framing stuff, but the way it circled back and, you know, Marlo and all that stuff. Marlo trying to go real, but somebody taking his corner basically

and just like the cycle of life in Baltimore. I thought it was brilliant and people were fucking pissed after that. Usually we like these episodes. He's like, oh, I didn't see that coming. Or I don't know. Like, this is amazing. I was like, okay, so if you want to do that game,

like what would be the massive twist? But then you could also end it. How could you end the storytelling process? Because if you give the audience some crazy twist, then it's like, well, wait a minute. Now I want to know what happens now. Cause I wasn't expecting this. I mean, Jon Snow killed Danny cause he felt like he had to in classic Jon Snow way. And yeah, there were some boring stretches. I feel like I have to. I mean, it did get a little like, I just don't want it, Brian. I don't want it.

I don't want to be the coach and the GM. He was whiny. I just want to be the coach. Pete Carroll's been really one of the only ones. You study the history and you just can't do it? Sounds like Patriot games right now. Sounds like Bono. I don't know what we're doing.

Would you have been, would you have been happier if Stan the Dragon seems like he's going to kill Jon Snow after he realizes Dany's dead and then he blow dries the throne and melts the throne?

The end. No, because it's cheesy. Too cheesy. I thought the torching of the throne was kind of like, so what, the dragon's been paying attention this whole time? Hey, it's a smart dragon. cheesy too cheesy i thought i thought the torching of the throne was kind of like so what did the

dragon's been paying attention this whole time it's a smart dragon they were homeschooling him okay but he didn't realize like that john snow just killed his mom for homeschooling he did he got extra reps once his brothers died no he him and danny had that esp thing going yeah so now she's dead with a blade. And so now he's sniffing around, seeing if she's still awake. And then Jon Snow's just sitting there and he tortures the throne instead of the guy that just killed his-

Well, Jon Snow's a Targaryen, right? Oh. Can't kill somebody with Targaryen blood. Smart. I thought, the more I thought about it, and I watched it a second time to make sure it was the right reaction. Tyrion basically solving everything

while in handcuffs was just insane I can't believe they did that I wish they had asked anybody whether that was a good idea just hey guys should we do this

what if Tyrion's in handcuffs like at least not have him in handcuffs and he's been exonerated because Dany's gone and now he's not going to go to jail

or whatever he did a great job of selling how rough a week it had and now he's not going to go to jail or whatever he did he did a great job of selling how rough a week it had been though yeah like he had to get oh i know sometimes i've said too much rough times and then you know gray worms like shut up or solve the world's problems in a quick soliloquy here and then i think one of my favorites was was the first guy getting up we haven't seen in forever. He's like, well, uh... The uncle. Well, we're here.

And Sansa's like, sit down. And then I love that Sam... I actually really enjoyed that. Yeah, I thought that was funny. And then when Sam got up, he was like, why doesn't everyone have a vote? And they were like, shut up, loser. That part I like.

They're like, I should have my horse get one too. Fat ass. I don't think they said fat ass that part I thought was funny there's some social media stuff about how Tyrion makes his case how Bran the Broken you know what unites all of us is stories

well he has the best story and some people on Twitter were like are we sure he has the best story like he broke his back and can see things but is that better than Arya's story? Who can change her face and killed the Night King and was this orphan girl who did all this stuff? If you're going to sit down and hear people's stories, wouldn't you rather hear the Arya stories?

No? Well, anyone over his. Any stories over his. I mean, any hang with Bran. That's the other thing. A king's got to be at least inspiring or a good hang or fearful. Bran's just kind of a freak. He's weird.

It's an interesting choice. He never got fun. Genie, Buss, or Bran? Genie. You go Genie over Bran Yeah At least I know what I'm getting with her With Bran I'm like

It's getting weird stories It's just a wild card Like so that whole time you knew Yeah Because that's kind of what he says Feel free to tell us what's going to happen Because you know everything You know we've been sitting here

For an hour Yeah And you were like well i came back for a reason well to be the king but then it's kind of like they weren't going to make him just a straight up king because sansa is like hey by the way we're out again we like cold and dreary that's our deal so i'm gonna have a queen roll up there and you guys can fight over dorn um dorn not a huge factor the last couple of years. I just, I think it's really easy to be pissed off about all this stuff.

But whenever anybody, think about just anyone walking around right now. And you go, you know what would be a great show? Like, I work construction, the contractor site. There's always crazy stories going on and all sorts of shenanigans. Oh, you know what would be really good is a show about a makeup room a makeup room because oh my god it's somebody creating all the gossip and all stuff it's like okay but what's the story not just a collection of funny things that have happened to you on the construction site like who's the main character what are we watching and where is this going what season because nobody wants to hear season one and then i'm

kind of out of ideas because no one makes any money until season three and then real money until season five. That's how all this shit works. So the first time you ever – and this is just me knowing the basics of this. You're a writer. Yeah, as a writer, producer. No one cares about your clever story or cool idea until it's like, where is this going in season five where we can all make a lot of money on this? Yeah. And some shows suffer

because of that. But I feel like landing this thing with a way that was acceptable to everybody was basically impossible anyway. With 52 characters that you've established over the course of the show.

It's like, we're going to tie up all these stories. You can't. Yeah. Zach Kramer wrote a great piece for us today, actually, in The Ringer

about the 40 loose ends heading into the season, how many of them were actually tied up. And it was like 13 of the 40. And this goes back to the Russian and the Sopranos. I can't believe you just said that because I was just thinking,

what do you mean do I remember? No, but remember how mad people were that it never got resolved? That's like, I kind of think that was the point that sometimes you put people on a show And no, but remember how mad people were that it never got resolved? That's like, I kind of think that was the point. That's that he, sometimes you put people on a show and you think it's going to pay off and it doesn't, but it made your brain move and wonder and think, and that's all he's trying to do.

They should have just shown him working at Best Buy or like a scar. You want an email receipt or printed? Well, you know, in the Godfather saga, the guy, when Michael Corleone gets married, spoiler alert, 1972 movie, but he gets married to Apollonia, the beautiful Apollonia. And then the one of the bodyguards sets him up and the car blows up. He kills that bodyguard at some point in one, they didn't use it. And then in two, and they didn't use that either. They had two different revenge scenes where he died that they took out the point is storytelling sometimes it doesn't sometimes you can't resolve stuff with booth sense i can't believe you brought the russian

guy because it's the first thing i thought of because i forever was like what's going on with the russian guy and then you're like why does everything need to be solved why does everything and i started thinking about he did it i started thinking about it. That's why he did it. I started thinking about the Sopranos finale. And I remember, you know, I was in a hotel when I was doing those Connecticut shifts. And I couldn't wait. Like, I think I, you know, it was like, I don't want to know anything. It's how, you know, and it ended and I was pissed. I was too.

I was like, what? Like, you're not going to give us any resolution. You're not going to give us anything. And then years and years later, it was, you know, the viewer got whacked. I was like, man, that's a really cool theory. And then he ended up saying then years and years later it was no the viewer got whacked I was like man that's a really cool theory and then he ended up saying that's not what it was at all

but everybody kind of wanted to run with it like as if we got shot as the viewer and we're taken out of the story it's like Tony Allen's torn hamstring yeah you forget

Verno's like people forget if his hamstring was healthy they'd win the series Conley has two more rings yeah Conley maybe is Curry at that point.

Right. You just don't know. Who knows? Yeah. The Sopranos thing made me really mad. And then I rewatched the whole show this year. And the final episode, after knowing what the surprise is at the end,

it's actually an amazing episode. It's really great. But the ending threw people off and it wasn't what they wanted. Everybody got mad. Seinfeld, people got mad. Mad Men, nobody, probably a little more favorable,

but people still got mad that it all tied around to what it did at the end. I don't want to spoil that one. But Breaking Bad's the only one I remember people being happy with. MASH, I think people got mad. Boston Common.

St. Elsewhere. Going way back. 90s sitcom. The Cheers last one, I remember. I don't remember people being 100% back. That Diane comes back at the end. People were pissed about Alf. No, that's a good point.

90210 was probably one of the best ones too. I'm kidding. It wasn't. I don't remember. I think somebody got married. Didn't somebody die? No. Oh.

I think David and Donna finally got married. I have not rewatched that catalog. You have to run that back? I never... Not into an overwatchable? I've been pretty lonely at times. I've never gone, all right, we're going to bang through these DVDs

for the next month. So that's it? No more Thrones? We're done? You hit everything? Yeah. I don through these DVDs for the next month. So that's it? No more Thrones? We're done? You hit everything? Yeah, I don't really think I have much else to add to it. I feel like the stakes, this was a warning to everybody, whoever does the next great show,

that no matter how you end it, people are going to be pissed off because the expectations are so high. So clearly with my profession, I'm more sympathetic towards it. All right. We're coming back next week with the finals preview. Done. Great. Till then.

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we are back on Thursday. And speaking of Thursday, we have a new Rewatchables 1999 coming up as well. The Insider. Me, Chris Ryan, Shop Fantasy. Until then. On the wayside I'm a person never I don't have