The Bill Simmons Podcast - Giannis to Miami! An Urgent Gathering Pod With Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier to react to Giannis Antetokounmpo getting traded to Miami. (0:00) Intro (1:15) Heat trade for Giannis (13:26) Why didn’t the Giannis trade work for the Celtics? Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers Brought to you by PayPal. Learn more at paypal.com The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers. Start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See PayPal.com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers, terms, and conditions. All right, we are recording this. It is 9.45 Pacific time. It's not an emergency podcast because this isn't an emergency.

We've been waiting like 307 days for this. Justin Barrius here from the ringer. Chris Ryan's here from the ringer. Just got back from dinner. I don't know if it's drunk house or relatively unsober house. What version of house are you right now? I'm legally allowed to drive, but I don't know if I'm legally allowed to comment on a Janus trade. Yeah, that we've been waiting forever.

All right. So Janus going to Miami. It was Boston versus Miami for days and days and days. I thought it was going to happen today. Then everyone was like, it's not happening. And then after I took my contacts out, gave my dog a bath, just brought my dog out of the bathtub, and then all of a sudden, Janus was traded.

Varyer, are you surprised? It's Miami? No, it seemed like obviously it was going to be Boston or Miami, and I always thought Miami's package just made a little bit more sense than what the Celtics were offering. I just never got just getting Jalen Brown back for a Milwaukee team that had just struggled for multiple years at this point, dealing with one superstar without the supporting cast in order to make really anything of it.

And so just getting a bunch of stuff, at least to me, like I'm not sure what that stuff really amounts to. It's more of an opportunity than a sure thing in there. But I would rather that. And I think that's ultimately where the bucks decided to. All right. So they, see, are they got Hero, where Hakeas. They got Hacoshunis.

That's how you say it, right? Yeah. Like him. Yakashonis. Yacoshonis. You get the 13th pick in this draft. They got 31 and 33 Unprotecteds and a 30 swap. So they basically gave up everything they had except Bayam out of bio.

What do you think, CR? Because I don't know what's left. I'll tell you what's left for Miami now. Now, they could patch this together if this was the good old days. But basically, Yonis, Bam, Wiggins, Davian Mitchell, Bobby Portis, they got in the trade as well. And then Norm Powell, if they can resign him as a free agent. And then minimum free agents, and that's their team.

You know what the first thing that jumped into my mind where this trade was, was the geek story slash quote about if somebody's going to, to trade for me, I'm worried about how much they're going to have to trade to get me and what I'm going to be walking into when I walk into that locker room. Is Janice on a better team now than he was yesterday? I don't think so. I would say BAM's a better teammate. Maybe the front office is a little more motivated, but I don't think this team's a title contender. Do you, Verrier? No, but they're definitely in the mix. And I do like how they contrast some of the other teams that have ascended in the east year. Like the Knicks are obviously probably going to go into next season

as the presumptive favorites. And you look at them and they're more of an offensive driven team. I know they did a lot of work in the finals in order to win that. But like you think about Brunson, you think about the blender with them. At the very least, the Miami Heat have an identity from day one, which is they're going to be like pretty physical and pretty defensive minded. I think Bam, Janus, Andrew Wiggins is like the core. And Davion Mitchell is really the core of the type of like grounded out defensive team that I think fits Miami's identity for like years on end at this point, but also maybe something that would be a contrast

to a lot of these teams that were counting on like high-octane offenses. And this also goes- Don't ask for any shooting, C.R. Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, what we just saw in the playoffs was the importance of depth, you know, throughout the whole entire postseason, but I was going to say this is going to test

two of Miami's kind of like big myths of self-belief that they have, which is A, we're an attractive destination for top-tier talent to come. Not true. And B, we trust our development so much that we can turn coal into diamonds wherever we look. And they're really going to have to dig now because they need to find four more guys. Like this is not, this might be a playoff team in the East, but this is not a title team. Yeah, this is not 2011.

All right. So I have a two-part take. One, I think Miami had to do this. They gave up both an incredible amount, but also an amount that if I'm a Milwaukee fan, I'm like, wait, what do we get? Like, what do you tell your nine-year-old Bucks fan son? Hey, we trade to Janus. What did we get? Well, we got all the other guys on a 43-win team that aren't bam,

and we got some picks really starting four years from now, and we got the 13th pick in a eight or nine-player draft, and then after that, you keep your fingers crossed. With that said, they did get a lot of stuff. And I think one of the keys, and the thing we kept hearing in the last day and a half was that Milwaukee was really split on the offers, that there was the front office really wanted this Miami offer

and the owners were split on, should we just get Jalen Brown? Like, we can, he's one of the 12 best guys in the league. We can either keep them or we could flip them. Like, he's just, he's a dollar, or we're just getting all of these quarters and dimes from Miami. And I think ultimately this proves yet again that front offices love nothing more than trades

that can keep themselves in power for a few years. Yeah. This is the perfect trade if you're John Horst and his team and you already got rid of Doc Rivers. You don't really know where you are. This Janus thing has been paralyzing you for over a year. And I could be like, hey, we're rebuilding. We have picks. We have stuff. We have pieces. I don't know what this is, but I know I'm not going to get fired anytime soon because this is a mess. Whereas if you get Jalen, I think there's slightly different expectations. So do you think that's a fair assessment on that barrier? I do. I just think the die was cast when they fucked this last off season, where like not only did you just like not figure anything out last year and just basically punt this down the road, but you put yourself in debt with the dame wave and stretch in a way that just was going to make, putting anything else around Yanis, there were no last outs for this team in order to go through. And so I don't know if like what they have now is all that great, but I guess considering where they are because of that, I don't mind it. I just don't see, like, because they were so in debt with the picks,

in addition to the Dame Wave and Stretch, like what they were going to do with just, like, one player, like with Jalen Brown or anything like that, it's just like you were just going to be in the same sort of situation. So at the very least... You don't think they would have flipped them? I always felt like they were acquiring him to then repackage him, whereas, like, Janus was basically like,

I'm going here or here. So you had two places to send him, and that's it. Yeah. If they moved him to a Portland or, like, a Clippers, then it would have made more sense. but would you rather your own picks back versus Miami? I don't know, considering the flattened lottery odds, I might even lean more toward like Miami's picks

plus just guys that I know at the very least have some concrete value to them. C.R., tell us if you had a Bucks fan in your life, what are you telling them today? That Kalelewara, it might turn into something that you're probably actually not going to be appreciably worse than you were last season, that Tyler Hero is coming home,

and you can start cutting together the montage now, that Hakez is a lot of, a nice player. He is. I like that. You needed to, you needed to amputate. This was no more cutting,

no more, no more little procedures. This was basically sinking the franchise. I think the, the sort of long national vigil that we have held

watching where this guy is going to go and is he going to sign a contract who's probably sucking the life out of this team. You got a new coach

who's good at coaching up players. Yeah. Start from zero. Let's see what happens. and you have the 10th and 13th picks. Hey, and I just want to say, so two things. One is we're five minutes in,

I'm not going to let you not talk about Boston much longer, so just get ready. And two, 10 and 13, I wonder whether or not they're going to do something with them and try to get a move up. Well, so you would, you'd been talking about this. A lot of people have been talking about this on Sunday night.

You were talking about this with Zach, about the people at the teams at five, where the point guards are going to start to go, don't need point guards. Yeah. And could you know, could one of these guys help the clippers? Could there be some sort of deal?

I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. But I think that that's, there feels like maybe there's another step coming because if I'm the Bucks, I want to get younger. I want to start the clock at zero. Or there's the other version of this where they take Nate A-Man at 10 and then somebody else we're not sure about a 13.

And the Bucks fans are like, what happened? From the Miami side of this, they're just in purgatory, right? They're miles behind the Knicks and the Celtics as well and the Cavs, maybe even the Raptors and or land, they've gone down the line. They finished 10th this year. Like, let's be real. Yeah.

Yeah. So they kind of had to take the Hill Mary. There's also, you know, there's a lot of swagger in that part of the country about we're Miami, we've done this. I've always joked about the zombie heat. I think pulling off LeBron and Bosch in 2010, pulling off Shaq in 2004, the incredible one was Jimmy Butler in 2019

when they somehow convinced Portland to take Hassan Whiteside. But it started to feel like their luster was slipping a little JV. Pat Riley's 80. Right. It's like, did they still have the magic? Now that could be like, hey, we got Janus. He was number three MVP two years ago. And it's one of the 25 best parts of all time.

And please don't look at his playoff game log for the last five years. I mean, I just think like the league is better when Miami is a villain in everything. Like, practically since the late 2000s, they've been a primary character in the NBA's story. And I just think, like, having Pat Riley being out there, like, putting the rings on the table and giving, like, any given Sunday-style speeches at his press conference is just good for the league. It's also good to see Yonis back in a competitive environment. because what has it been like two years, three years since he's practically been in the wilderness. If you want to loop in the years with Dame, which were just sort of mixed and muddled, everyone was injured. And like, it just wasn't good for a player where Bill, I don't know where you have him on your pyramid,

but he has to be like one of the most prominent players in the league historically that is still active right now. To see those two things come together, I don't know what they'll be next year, but at the very least they're going to matter. And I think that matters for just like fans in order to plug into this. Yeah, I was, he's going to be motivated. He really hasn't played basketball a year. I think he has one, maybe two really, really, really elite years left. I did a bunch of stuff on my podcast, I don't know, two, three months ago about all of the historical signs that are against Janus. Like just even averaging a 2010 after your 14th season in the league is just about as rare as it gets.

Being being really good from age 32 on, not really realistic. But if you're Miami, what the hell else were you going to do, CR? Like this is, you had no other options and you just basically traded the all-time poo-boo platter and all these picks. Pat Riley is going to be 84 when the 2030 swap is coming in a play. Do you think he cares? He's going to be excited to still be living in his house. Now that this is finally over, I would love to get multiple now.

They tell us notebook dumps out of this trade because I want to know who's driving this trade for Miami. Is it Riley looking for one last shot of glory? Is it Spow being like, hey, to keep me engaged, we need to take a step up here? Is it one of the Erisans? What was the buck side of this? Was this Haslam driving this? 100%. This is Hasam.

And who came up with the like, if he doesn't sign an extension, it's over now idea instead of seeing him with Taylor as the new coach. And I want to know, Bill, I want to know what's going on, what happens next for Boston. Wait, I thought you were going to do a one last job thing with Miami. Is this directed by Michael Mann? One last job. We've got to be honest. This could be go pass boats, yeah.

Yeah, we've been talking to J.R. Smith. He might make a comeback. I know. We can do this. Becomes back from Scotland, yeah. From a Boston standpoint, this whole thing's been confusing. They made an offer two weeks ago that I don't think they changed. And I think it was Jalen Brown and a couple picks, and that was it.

And I think Milwaukee, I think, said, all right. when we get close to the draft, we're going to come back and we're going to really try to figure this out. And I don't think Boston really wavered. I think they wanted a whole bunch of stuff other than Jalen and two first round picks. Jalen was second team all NBA last year. Jalen's younger than Yannis. Jalen's more durable than Yannis. And I think Boston was like, that's kind of our trade, guys.

There's not, we don't really need to do this. Now, the risk for the Celtics is that this came out and Jalen was in trade rumors. And that's, that's just what's going to happen with this. You're not going to be able if there's too many people involved on both sides for if an offer is floated out there. No matter if it was like, here is our actual offer or here's the vicinity of the offer we're thinking, however you stage it, you're still discussing your second best player or your first best player, depending on how people feel about the Celtics. So my take, and I said this on pods over and over again, I didn't think this was the trade for Boston. I didn't like it. I thought it was too risky. And I thought there were better Jalen trades.

Like if to me, the pivot would be looking in New Orleans that they're going to trade Jalen and trying to get Murphy and Herb Jones or Murphy Jordan Poole's expiring and picks from the Pelicans. Whatever version of that or the Hawks or I just feel like there's better trades than this for Janus. I don't know how Janus and Tatum would have played together. And you're talking about Janus has health risks. Tatum's coming off and torn Achilles. Like I just, I don't think this trade was a slam dunk for them.

And I've said this the whole time. I know the playoffs ended poorly, and I don't want to bring that back up between you guys so we could just move along here. But I don't remember that. Okay, that's good. It's good to hear. I just don't remember coming out of that series and thinking that this was such a desperate situation in the way that Brad Stevens kind of projected it was in his postseason press conferences, where he brings up the stat where it's like all 3-11 against the top three seats. I'm like, okay, you also didn't have one of the best players in the league for like three-quarters of the season.

and you never really hit a stride where you would say like everything is clicking. Derek White was awful all year from three point land got worse in the playoffs. Like he didn't have a good year whatsoever. A lot of these guys that they're counting on are young. And so I look back at this. I'm just like, where is the incentive to just go do and hit the button with Janus? Now, I have to assume that Jalen Brown is just such a tax on everyone's emotional bandwidth just because of who he is and also how tough it is to build the right team around these two.

it really took getting Drew and Derek and Christops these, like, awesome role players in order to make it work in the first place. But from a big picture POV, if you're going to do anything, I would say take a step back. Like, Trey Jalen for young guys like you're talking about. Like, Trey Murphy has a lot still left in him. Herb Jones does and maybe picks from the Pelicans and just like bring Tadem back along slowly so you could be like really, really good in two years. I never really understood the honest thing.

Yeah. I, for one, I'm never going to forgive Milwaukee for rolling this grenade into the Celtics locker room. my brother stood arm and arm they waited for J.T. to come back from his Achilles in record time. And now Jimmy Haslam has destroyed that with one fail swoop. I don't know, Bill.

I could never really, really totally tell whether this was Jalen Brown. Like you've kind of said a couple of times saying, I like the taste of having my own team. Let's find that for me. Or was this, was this Brad Stevens coming out and being like,

hey, guess what? Basketball is different than it was 18 months ago and we can't just shoot threes all day and we need to have a different speed here. And we need to have like a completely different look. And maybe that's what was driving the Janus searching. I was curious, Bill, this Randall trade that happened concurrently with Janus and I don't know how related you feel like these things are. But now Minnesota opens up like this $33 million trade exception and are obviously looking to stay competitive with the Western Conference powers. like, is that a sneaky Jalen destination possibly?

Like, is there more stuff to come here? I thought we were going to say Derek White, which I don't think would happen. No. No, I think they were delighted to get off of Randall. And they got a big trade exception for it. And they got the ability to sign IA, which they already did. So to me, it was just a sour thing. That was the rare trade that I kind of didn't like for all three teams.

Like, I just don't like the Klaxen that much. I'm not, the Bulls had max cap space. And it's, they used 20 plus million of it on Nick Claxton. And for Brooklyn, like, okay, Julius Randall maybe prevents you from being one of the three worst teams. And now you're locking in three lottery balls instead of two. Congratulations. I don't know very if they were just going to just going to get everybody who didn't get a ring with the Knicks the last five years and just slowly get all those guys to put them in Brooklyn. Everybody that mom donnie shouted out at the parade.

DDB. They get him back. I don't know who else was done. Jeremy Lynn, maybe get him out of retirement. Who else could they get? I have to imagine that they were the Trey Young suitor that forced the Wizards into giving him just basically a max from an outside team. And so, like, if you had Trey Young and Julius Randall, were they just trying to build, like, the biggest villain possible for the Knicks because they knew that they were never going to get anyone in that building whatsoever. I'll be honest.

I know this is like my cross the bear here, but I don't hate the Nick Claxton move for the Bulls. Wow. I think if you're, if you're just building like a fun young team that's like going to get out and run, like I actually think that Claxon is like pretty good for that system. He might weigh 150 pounds soaking wet. And like he's been like two years away for like seven years at this point. But I actually think he fits at the very least what they have and like is young enough to build with the young team. When you said that was the factor for the trade extension, I think the other possibility is mushrooms.

Like, if you had told me he opted out and they gave him a two-year deal at max, I would have been like, I don't know. That's pretty risky. And instead, they basically did four. I thought that was dumbfounding. I don't know who they were competing against. I thought that was really weird. So with the Celtics, I just think they felt like Jalen was a good enough offer. And that's it.

We're not throwing in more stuff. If we don't care that Miami's desperate, we're not. And, you know, whether it was Hugo, whether it was Shireman, whether it was more than the 27th pick and an extra pick. I don't know what the ultimate final offer was, but, or we have to take Kuzma back. I don't think they want to do any of that stuff. I think they like their team. And the Jalen PCR, you know, it's nothing major. I can't, there's no smoking gun with this.

I can't really point to one specific thing. but I think it's just a bunch of small things that seem like they've added up. You know, doing the Twitch every day, starting shit with Stephen A. Smith, talking about how last year was the best year of his career. Some of the Jaylin, Jason, whose team is this stuff, maybe they wanted to,

maybe this was the easiest way to avoid it. Sierra, honestly, the reason I haven't let you host the rewatchables for six months, because I don't want to come back. And then you're just kind of side-eyeing me the whole time and being like, I don't know. Yeah. Pod ran better when I was running this thing.

My favorite pods I've ever done is when I did Blade Runner without Bill. I don't know. Did you guys hear that Blade Runner pod? But I personally do not think they would have entertained this at the end of the season. I think something definitely shifted as we went along. And, you know, I just think I'm not convinced he's going to be on the team in October there. I would say it's 50-50.

I mean, especially considering that they've been down this road with him, what, like 17 times where they've almost traded him? Like, I was talking to someone earlier today. Like, remember the time where they almost traded him for Anthony Davis on the Pelicans? Like, we're talking about Trey Murphy now, where it's like the Kyrie, no-Rould rule thing. Like, that was like 10 years ago. And he was always so hardheaded that I think he was the type of person you didn't want to get into this situation. But now it's just compounded time and time and again. And after he has this great year, you're doing it again.

it seems pretty unsolvable at this point. I think the good thing, I think you're right about, like, standing with the offer that they gave the bucks where it's just like take Jalen and like some picks and that's it. Because Jalen is still really good. The problem is he's probably best suited for a really good team, but not like a championship contending team. He's probably best suited for where he is now as a 1B on a really good team. But there's just so many of these other teams like that.

The Blazers, for instance, my hometown team here, like, he would fit really well there. The Clippers, the Hawks. And so I think that they could Yeah, there's four good ones. They could still get a lot for him, but I do wonder if the Celtics, I'm curious what you think about this, would be willing to take a step back

after being so pronounced about taking a step forward here and actually prioritize picks or just young players so you can retool rather than just like push the button, let's win tomorrow. Yeah, Tatum's, I think, could be 28 next year.

Chisholm just bought the team. So new owner, not really being like, hey, let's take our time. Like, he wants to be good. He wants, they lost in seven games to a Philly team that immediately the tires, the tires came flying off the car. We came up against the team of destiny, Bill. We couldn't do anything about that. It's too bad.

The financial doping of James Dolan and the Brunson Mafia. CR, if they had just benched and beat in that first game, you could have come back. Sure, that would go to agree. You said it that day. I know. Staples preferred business membership built for busy business owners, because you've got bigger things to think about. With Staples Preferred, get free delivery.

No minimums. Staples Preferred unlocks up to 3% back. Plus 10% savings on print and exclusive wireless offers. One less thing on your plate. Actually, a lot less. Visit staples.ca slash preferred. That was easy. Rees knows a thing or two about great combinations.

Chocolate and peanut butter, Obviously, but there's more than one way to Reese's. From indulgent Reese's big cups with caramel to crunchy Reese's pieces and Reese's miniatures, there's a delicious Reese's for every mood. It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it. So whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself, nothing else is Reese's. So from a Celtic standpoint, there's lots of ways this could go. There's also the way it could go where they just bring them back.

27 million trade exception. They have a bunch of their picks. They have some moves to make. But it's a bizarre situation. I will say with the Boston fans in my life and even Boston fans online, wherever you want to look where Celtic fans were, I don't think anybody was like, we got to get yonis. Holy shit, he's available.

I think they were real concerns. And I think there's real love for the Jays in the last 10 years. Like Jalen, they drafted him 10 years ago, I think, tomorrow. They won a title with the guy. He's been in six conference finals. I was looking at one stat. I was looking because I honestly thought at there's a point today where I really thought that he was going to get traded. There's only 11 guys ever who have played 125 playoff games and average 19 a game.

And the other guys are LeBron, Duncan, Kauai, Wade, Magic, Larry, Kobe, Tatum, worthy and quite, Thompson. He's had a pretty great career, you know, and I still feel like he's getting better. I thought last year was the best he's ever looked. So if you're the South, it's like, hey, Tatum's going to be healthy. We've won with these guys. Maybe we have to tweak our style a little bit, but I don't think this is disaster. Now, the question is, does Jalen do a six-hour Twitch stream tomorrow, CR? And how does he handle the next 48 hours? I think we find out what we find out the next 48 hours, whether this was going to be, you might get traded for Janus, but you are getting traded, or whether it was, we might walk the dog here with you and Janus, but that doesn't mean

we don't believe in you. There's something kind of weird about the fact that they withstood six, seven years of can these two guys play together and win together, win a title, and then, and now we're going to trade you guys after we've established ourselves as a powerhouse in the East. And I do think that there's a little bit too much, let's tear up all the plans that we made over the years going on right now because nobody knows how to counteract the newly emergent powers in the NBA. And it's just like Boston's really good. They're going to be really good next year if they run back the same team. They can do some tactical tweaks that will easily get them into the mix here. But I feel like Zach tried to kind of shoot you a little bail on Sunday night. And he was like, you know, the only sources are saying. this. Like, I don't know. What if Jaylen's not even in this trade? And you're like, Jaylin's in the trade. So obviously, there's like a, there's some truth to the matter that Boston is offering. That was reported all over the place this. Yeah. So. I'm saying it for at this point, at this point, I'm just saying it seems like he's done in Boston to me. But you, you know,

stranger things have happened. Or very. Or maybe this was their way of like, maybe like a scared straight type thing. Remember that show in the, in the, in the, what was that in the 70s? already. See what it would have been like if you had gone to Milwaukee. See? You could bet it

Milwaukee. That would have sucked. How's this looking? Listen, Bill, like you, I'm a bit of a hot-blooded, mostly Italian person. I feel like there are times

where I've probably held a grudge a little bit too long, but like I've had to get over it, right? I just feel like at a certain point, like maybe this is his best recourse because like, is he really better off going to a lesser team

and just like having his way? Because all the teams that we mentioned, aside from maybe the Pelicans, are going to have similar issues. They're not going to be a Jason Tatum type where he's making all-MBA teams and all this other stuff. It's more of a Jalen Johns or a Deniavda, or like, we'll see if Kauai or Dary Scarlane would be there with the Clippers. But like, he's still going to have to get along with guys. Like, the league is just too talent deep at this point where you don't just get your team like it was 10 to 15 years ago. And like there are no issues there. You're just the guy and we'll

play through you. You get 30 game like Jerry Stackhouse and you go to your All-Stars. that's that. The league just doesn't exist that way. So I think it's best for both parties to figure this out. I just don't know if it's like, for him, it's just unsalvageable. Yeah, it's like on one hand, I completely agree with Justin that this just seems like it's like three conversations and they could all be taking pictures together on Instagram in a couple of days. On the other hand, we have seen with Kyrie Irving with Kevin Durant.

Like, we've seen situations where it's like, so you had Valhalla and you've walked away from it multiple times. What happened there? And I just think, especially once a guy wins a ring, it's kind of like, where are you happiest more than where do I have the best chance to win a championship? And what's his incentive as a basketball player heading into the 11th year of his career? He already won a title. This is ironically the Pat Rowley-Dise Amor, which the Knicks are going to have to deal with

now too. When you sacrifice and you're unselfish and you have a common team goal and then you have to start thinking, all right, I'm ready for some shine. So when Jalen said that was his favorite year of his career last year, and then he tried to backtrack a little and was like, no, I was, man, because everyone counted us out, we had all this adversity and, but yeah,

I think a huge part of that was he finally got his shine as a real guy. You say some things you don't mean some times. But I'm sure he loved it. I'm sure he loved to prove that you can still be a really good team if I'm your best player, right? They went 56 and 23 after going 0 and 3

to start the year. So he proved it. We'll see what, else he wants to prove. I think I think he's a really good player. I had him second team all-M-B-A. I think I voted for him in Ringer. Where did he end up in Ringer 100? Like

13-14th ranch? Somewhere in there. I think he was 12th or 13th behind Cat, but above Tatum. Yeah, I had him right around there. And he's still in his prime. I mean, he looked as athletic as he ever was going to look last year. It's interesting, though. So I was talking about

daughter who's been living in Boston the last three-plus years and has really become I'm a Celtic fan because she's gone to a lot of games. And she's like Zach with the draft. Like she's just dangerous enough with basketball opinions now because she's gone in these games. She doesn't know a lot about trades. Like the Celtics have made smaller trades, but never like a big trade with one of their

dudes. And she was asking me about this Miami versus Boston for Janus thing. And she's like, I don't understand. So Miami's not going to put Bam in the trade, but we are going to put Jaylin in the trade, but they might not take Jalen in the trade. I don't understand trades. And I was like, well, Miami's going to put

all of this other stuff, but it won't be bam. And she was just like, I know, but I saw the heat last year. Like, that kind of sucked. Like,

how do you get Yonis for that? I was like, honestly, I don't know. Was she not available for today's podcast? I think she was asleep. But you guys talked about the second apron after that.

I was like, you know, flexibility and picks. But it is funny to think of that context. that Miami was like, no, no, we can't put BAM in it. And meanwhile, Jalen made second team NBA last year, and Bain didn't make any team, right?

And BAM was in the Ringer 100. He was in the 20s. He means more to Miami. He's a big part of the city and the community. And, you know, I know they love them. They've been to finals with them. But it was just interesting that he couldn't be included in this. But now that, now you made the key point earlier,

they can at least build an identity around those two guys and a year of Wiggins and Mitchell. And we're just going to be a bitch to, play with. We're going to have good. We're not going to shoot that well, but it's going to be really hard to score against us. We're going to ugly games up. And you have to hope Yannis just has one of those 3012, 3012 and 5 play 70 games. It's conceivable. That Miami doctors fix him up. Yeah, he's in Miami. A lot of magical things have happened in Miami. A lot of rejuvenations. I mean, I would have to be concerned if they don't get the depth that they need in order

to support him that like not, it wasn't just this past season where there were a ton of soft tissue injuries, specifically because it seemed like he was playing too hard and they were overloading him too much by playing through him, right? But it's like now a track record of multiple years. And we're saying like all these superstars across the league are getting these injuries in part because there's too much torque on their body considering the way the game is played right now. And so like it really is incumbent upon the heat to figure the rest of this out. The one good thing that he have going for them is that even though they don't have the picks, they find these guys all the time. The Drew Smiths.

Like, how many guys are across the league at this point, the Gabe Vincennes, where they, Max Drewes, like, they just make these guys out of nothing, but they do have to do that on the fly because they need to fill like three roster spots at this point. Yeah. And I think in 2007, that's

a harder task than it was 15 years ago because the league is so fucking deep now. Like, everybody goes 9, 10, 11 deep. Look at the guys that were coming off the next bench who were barely playing. We're talking about I always talk about the 2012 East finals when the Celtics almost made the finals

and they had McElpiatris and Brayn and Bass and Greg Steamsma. Like we had dudes that would not play for NBA teams now that were playing 30, 35 minutes. So I think it's a harder task here. Do you think that there is

is there another step to all of this? Whether it's whether it's a completely separate thing from Jalen and Janus, but that these were dominoes that had to fall first to make them happen. Does Miami even have anything in the cupboard to get anything else going in the next couple of... They have the Wiggins. The Wiggins is 30, right? Right. That's right. Like, there's a John Morant, Hail Mary sitting there. Oh, now I'm interesting. The drinks just kicked in. Are you

serious? There's a lot of South Beach places root for that scenario. But yeah, I mean, look, I don't know what what the job morant suitors are can you is is is there one barrier is there one suitor like if the kings take a cuff the kings are out as a jaw suit i don't even know who else we would say washington is macabby is macabby tell yeah we it's got enough it's part of prague is getting i think if he were to get let go then certainly i think teams would be interested but yeah he just makes a shit ton of money so even getting him in the building would take a lot in terms of of assets, even if you wanted to cobble together the contracts, and they just gave up half of the roster, so I don't know how they even get to that point.

I have some Fandle news. The Miami Heat are now fifth with title odds. Fent. 20 to 1. In the east? In the everywhere. OKC plus 250. Do they know something we don't?

OKC. San Antonio's plus 260, Selt 6 to 1, Nix plus 750. The Knicks having worse odds than the self-fix is, I don't know what that. say about that. And then Miami's 20 to 1 and Denver is 22 to 1. Detroit's 25 to 1 and the Lakers are 30 to 1. So Vegas Lanky.

I don't know. That's really low for Detroit. I guess the thing with the Knicks is just like they do have a lot to recreate their bench on the fly here because they're so top heavy they're probably lose Mitchell Robinson. It still feels like a pretty extreme overreaction but like yeah, Detroit is out there. I know that like

it ended very poorly and you can't couldn't be bullish based off of Jane Duren and everything that happened there outside of Cade looking good when he wasn't turning the ball over six times a game. But like they just have so many raw resources in order to figure things out. And it does feel like for instance, if they wanted to spin off hero

from Milwaukee, like, I think he makes a lot of sense there. Like he's got the on ball juice. He could play without Cade. He could shoot and space the floor with him. Like, that seems like a natural next move if Milwaukee doesn't want to keep him around for Milwaukee Beer Night or wherever they're keeping him for. I got to say also,

And I've been saying this probably at this time of year, every year for 12 years. The East is getting better. So I don't know how this is not going to be Miami gets to cakewalk two out of three games a week. Like Indiana is going to come back stronger. Oh, yeah. India will be Philly. Sean Sweeney and Orlando may be kicking. Wait, can we go back to Philly being Philly?

What does that mean, Sierra? It just means Philly is Philly. It's kind of, uh, I saw it inside of a fortune cookie once. Philly's a lot of sense. Philly is like one of those UFC fighters that could get. get knocked out or knock anyone out every day. Yeah, exactly. But Indy, Orlando, Cleveland and Detroit and Toronto are all like,

these teams are all better than Miami. Yeah. So it's not going to be like, I don't see Miami slingshotting ahead short of a Janus superpower season. Right. And we saw even with the Bucks where again, Janus was third MVP a couple years ago, but it's not like they were a 60-win team, right? I just think it's harder for one guy to have that kind of impact anymore.

Again, I think Miami should have done this. I'm okay with it. So what did you guys think of my tweet today when I said, I would be absolutely shocked if Hugo was or is throwing it to any honest trade offer. The entire organization is all in on him. Stevens probably the most. They could not be hiring him. I genuinely don't believe he's involved.

Guess we'll see. I was right. He wasn't involved. Only way you could have improved that tweet is if you would finish it the way Trump finishes his where he's like, thank you for your attention on. matter. Wait, should I put that on true social?

Yeah. Would you have been more upset if they let go of Hugo, if only because Brown was the assumed price for this? If they went above just Brown and picks and got rid of Hugo, would have been a briefs afar? Yeah, I thought one of the reasons they were even entertaining this is because they felt like they had guys that they could patch together the Jalen minutes with and be like not as good as Jalen, obviously, but okay.

like Shireman and, and Hugo, and then Tatum coming back playing 38 minutes, and then you have Janus grabbing a bunch of minutes. I think they did the math. It didn't make sense to me that Hugo or Shireman would have been in the trade if you're trying to win a title, you know? Because that's a pretty big hold to just remove Jalen out of that and his 36, 37 minutes a game. I know they love Hugo, and I never believe that the, I just will never believe that he was in the offer. I don't, I think they value him, whether it's right or wrong, we've seen teams, we've made jokes about this over the years. There was that I think my favorite one was

Roddy Bubaois on Dallas when he was just untouchable for three years about Roddy Bubaa. It's like Beringer on the wolves now. He's a good one. But there is not to compare this to the Rondo KG situation, but I'm about to. When they traded for KG,

they made Rondo untouchable. And they just wouldn't discuss them as part of that deal. And Rondo at that point, he had played garbage time for like a 17. win team. And, you know, I really liked them. The real Celtic fans who watch the teams were like, that guy, I hope he's not in the KG deal. That guy's good. I felt the same way about Hugo. I just think he's 20 years old. I think he's an asset. And I think Shireman is another one who's an

asset. So we'll see what they do. I still feel like my guess is this isn't over. Yeah, that's what I figured. I feel like either it's not over or something dramatic is going to happen where we'll read like Brad Stevens and Joe Mazzula met with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum for seven hours at at the seaport, some restaurant there and they were just in a back room.

They watched the town four times. They watched the town over and over again. And then the jutsu flipping him. Yeah. Then Mizzula took them for a ride through the north end for the getaway for Doug and those guys. Yeah, it's going to have to be something like that to flip it. I don't think he's going to play for the Celtics again.

And I just, I'm just based on that entirely off of how much Brad Stevens seemed unhappy with the state of how they were playing. And I don't know how you radically reimagine that team without breaking those guys up. What do you think, Vera? The odds are on that. I just hope that

cooler heads prevail here because I just think it's in both of their sides benefit in order to make this work. I just don't know how either makes out better if winning is the ultimate goal for both sides in order for them not to still be together. They just won the title two years ago. Like,

We're not that far removed from that. And they did such a good job of replacing, like, key components to this team on the fly. We just talked about Miami, like, being able to, like, conjure up bench guys out of nowhere. You just mentioned Hugo. Like, I don't know if you've seen the story about Amari Williams apparently is, like, two inches bigger at this point. No, I missed this one. He grew three inches. He's seven foot two.

Our backup, backup center. He grew three inches. The Wembe killer has arrived. Yeah, he's here. Congratulations. He's ready to destroy Wemby. this team just has so much going for them. It just seems like it is more just on the personal level

in order to figure it out. Yeah. And with that 27th pick, it's interesting, there are some guards that could drop. And the thing that this team, once Simons, they didn't have them,

the one thing they were missing, was some sort of guard that could create. Maybe they could find that with the trade exception or whatever. What's your team going to do, CR? It's going to happen there. It's really weird. I don't know where we are.

I mean, Gansy, I think, is trying to, come up with an identity for the team that's his big keyword is that we have to have like a style of play. And to be honest, like, I kind of got tantalized by that a little bit because that's one thing that like we haven't really had. It's all been like imbeat invalability dependent. Yeah. And so coming up with some sort of coherent philosophy of how you want the Sixers to

play would be great, a great starting point. But I have no feel for what we're going to do or even if we can do anything. How about El Chippo in Portland? What do we got? The cup. He's raised a cup, Bill. It's an NHL champion, Tom Dundon. What's he got for us? I think he's just finding out creative ways to get me and all the other taxpayers to pay for his fucking stadium renovations. I can't believe it.

Justin, I was wondering if you might zag and go pro-Dundon because I've been kind of workshopping a couple of them with Bill where I'm just like, we sure we needed that many photographers? Yeah, I do like this. How many assistant coaches do we need? Yeah, he's just zagging all over the place.

I can't think of a single person. who within days of getting a team or just going to a new team, if you're a player or a coach executive, has just been so universally reviled and just like everyone is out on him. I think the one good thing is it seems like he does have an itchy trigger finger,

and I would be surprised that they went through this entire offseason and didn't do something splashy because it just wants to get his name on it. He seemed like a real... I was almost surprised this morning when I woke up, and by the way, I'm not a big fan of what Dunden is doing. But it did seem like he would have been the kind of guy who would hire Dusty May.

Like, they're, like, I was, I was in, surprised and impressed that Dallas did that. It really does feel like, like, Dumont has, like, completely stepped away from that team. He's just like, let's redo this. But I was, I was like, oh, I wonder if this is the kind of guy who's going to start getting hired by these new owners. Any predictions for tomorrow on the draft error before we go?

Nothing out of the ordinary. I would like to see, I've talked myself into Boozer going too, although that sounds like it's cooling a little bit. Yeah, even I've cooled on it. Okay. Just in terms of the fit, though, I think it would make a little more sense because I don't know.

Like Peterson and George just doesn't really mesh as well, I think, considering that Boozer seems like the type of player who connects disparate parts of your team, the Jazz just have so many different guys in order to stir, and you need someone to stir the drink there. I also, maybe I'm just writing the fumes of the Knicks title, but I'm thinking like George as the small guards surrounded by a ton of size, like just might work,

and it seems like they have this sort of synergy to do it. But, yeah, Peterson's going to go too there. It's a little disappointing. I was texting Verno about this today. I would take boozer too. Verno's a little scared of Peterson at three, which I know he's talked about on a show. Just because they've lived through this kind of uncertainty

with the team they have for so long. and now you have this guy who was basically 15 minutes for Kansas games being like, yeah, I'm not going to play. And they had that weird creatine thing. There's some red flags. Now, he's been doing interviews heading into the draft where people have been pretty impressed. So who knows?

I don't know what to make of it. I just want to let you know, Bill, Darren Peterson, I think if not today, recently said his top, top three movies are the fugitive, interstellar and the negotiator. He caught my attention, CR. If the NBA doesn't work out, there's a third chair in the rewatchables get more. It's pretty good.

Yeah. I mean, these guys usually just say like Air Bud or like Gladiator. Yeah, they could have thrown in the town as his fourth one. But I'm going live after the draft after probably like around the Boston pick tomorrow for the draft. But the big questions for me, the Utah pick. What do the Quippers do at five? I still haven't heard anybody feeling awesome about any of the directions. And then I think the draft just gets weird around 80.

and now you have the Michigan coach at 9 and all three of his Michigan guys are going to be on the board. Yeah, and they were all on Instagram like fuck your coach. Right here. And, you know, as a huge Steph Curry fan, I'm hoping somebody falls to the Warriors at 11

so they can have one last run. It would be amazing if Burry's, you know, was somehow able to fall to them at 11 because two teams did something weird. And then Milwaukee at 10, now that they have 13, could they take off, you know, get a little frisky

at 10 because they know they have another pick coming. I think it's a really good draft. I'm excited for it. And there's going to be some guards that fought. What pick? Do you have a pick or no, CR? And I think we're 22. I mean, you're in the 20s. There's going to be good stuff. Portland does not have a pick, right? No.

They conceded the pick because I think of the trade with Chicago a few years ago. We got young to look forward to because unfortunately, he's still basically a rookie and he didn't play last year. Right. Yeah, you got to boost up his Chinese appeal. All right. Well, I think we covered everything unless you want to take some shots

at the Miami media. I don't know if you... No, I wish those guys the best. Peace and love to those guys. Peace of love. You guys have been a class act all this whole time. I'm sure in one year when Janice

does an exclusive, you know, anonymous source piece about how he's looking to get out of Miami. We could start this all up again. Now, did the brothers come? I guess we didn't cover that part either. I guess they have to be there, right? Yeah.

Certainly. Yeah. But Pat Riley's famously not, hey, we're not like other teams. You're going to fit into our culture kind of guy. That's kind of why Jimmy Butler, one of the reasons that end up falling apart. So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see if the brothers come. All right.

Barrier, CR. Thanks for joining me. This wasn't an emergency pod because we've been waiting for this trip for 13 months. It was, what do we call it? Emergency timed? Yeah. I wouldn't call it emergency, but what would we call it? Urgent.

an urgency urgency gathering? Yeah, urgent care. An urgent care pod. Thanks to Chris and Ghala and Eduardo as well. I'm going to be back right after the draft. We're going to be live on Netflix tomorrow night, probably around like the Boston pick range right at 8 o'clock.

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