The Bill Simmons Podcast - Gordon Hayward, Cap Space, and Point Blake (Ep. 234)

Episode Date: July 5, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan to discuss NBA events from the past few days, including the Gordon Hayward signing (2:25), the Paul George trade and the best-case scenario for OKC (10:28), teams' challenges and advantages with regard to the salary cap (30:10), and the Point Blake L.A. Clippers (50:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You just use this for Summer League. For my Fultz getaway. Yeah. I'm going to go see Markel. Yeah. Summer League thing. You use Hotel Tonight. They were very gracious.

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to on the way up here. Joe House, finally. Food podcasting Joe House. Did it make you hungry? It did, actually, when he started talking about the cap up here. Joe House, finally. Food podcasting Joe House. Did it make you hungry? It did actually when he started talking about the caprese salad. So his first one,

he had Bon Appetit's Adam Rappaport. He had Juliet Lipman who's going to be on every week with Food News and then Danny Chow talking about hot chicken. But a very good debut. I was very pleased.

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That's where we've been writing about all this NBA stuff over and over again. We had all these Gordon Hayward pieces ready. Yeah. How many Gordon Hayward pieces did we write? Like a hundred? Well, we ran four because we had a bunch ready and then he started screwing around. And then we had to write more. We had to write the what's Gordon Hayward doing piece.

Yeah. Yeah. We have like three or four. All right, we're going to talk about that in a second with executive editor of The Ringer, Chris Ryan. But first, here's Pearl Jam. All right. It is Wednesday, 9.40 a.m. Pacific Coast time.

Day after July 4th. I had two hot dogs yesterday. I don't feel good. I had a whole bunch of stuff that's not good for me. And the Gordon Hayward saga was not good for me either. It kind of ruined my July 4th. I'm glad it worked out. But just pick your team, Gordon Hayward.

Don't hold us hostage on Independence Day. A lot of like, oh, it's not fair that he has only three days to decide. It's like he's had a long time to think about this. He's had his whole life to think about it. How hard is it to ultimately decide? I don't mean to bitch about my new all-star small forward, but I don't know what took so long. Just pick your team.

Yeah, it did seem really strange. Also, you have to wonder whether or not it's coordinated with the announcement. They want to do this rollout. There was just obviously, he had probably made his decision, but hadn't told the other teams personally, and it started leaking. And then they try to maybe

rattle like some cages by being like oh we gotta regroup right what are you regrouping yeah i don't mean to hold people to deadlines i guess we have to do that all the time when we're writing and stuff like that but it would be very helpful for the personal lives of everybody out there who covers basketball if we could have a little bit more regimentation to this yeah now we're now it's just media guys complaining about stuff but sorry yeah with that said it's ridiculous this these are the most important 100 hours of the off season basically other than the draft and just by a fluke of the calendar it's happening during these four and five day weekends every year

in july when everybody's away, when a lot of people don't have access to the internet, you know, we can see it like with our traffic and with podcast traffic, stuff like that. It's probably like about down 20% just because people are away. People aren't, they're not in front of their desk. Paul George getting traded on a Friday night versus the Markel Fultz deal a couple of weeks ago.

There's a huge difference. On a Monday, yeah. It was like a 48 hour frenzy. Yeah, they're really participating in the conversation versus on their way to start a really long weekend. So what I'm mostly curious about is that in this day and age, you'd think that almost anything that could be eventized and made into a money-making venture by a sports league would be, right?

If they could eventize a guy getting his ankle wrapped, they would. So why not make this where the best players in the league now every summer change teams and it's going to keep happening because these guys keep signing two-year deals three years so everything's shorter so so can we have like a a free agency night can we have a free agency telethon like what do we like uh well that was basically friday night right and my my family was away and i was home and i didn't end up i didn't intend to watch basketball night but the paul george thing happened a good eight hours before the or maybe it was like six hours before the july first thing espn had this whole deadline midnight show ready to go and they were on for two hours van pelt had his sports center at midnight but then on espn to the jump they're ready to go. And they were on for two hours. Van Pelt had his sports center at midnight,

but then on ESPN2, the jump, they're ready to go. Three things happen before those shows. And you go to ESPN, ESPN2. I just want to watch people talk about what happened with Paul George. Yeah. There's this three hour window where it's like, I just want to read everything. I want to go on TV. I want to watch. I just want to watch people with heads talk about Paul George. I don't care who those heads are. I want to see hands flailing. And there was nothing. It was like boxing was on ESPN2. Soccer, some MLS game was on ESPN1. NBA TV had like the, it wasn't the B crew or the C crew or the D crew. I think they were just throwing suits on people who were in the studio and just throwing them on TV yeah and there was no discourse and it's like this is just a waste if you had like if you designated june 27th you know if you if you change the schedule so the

finals end like june 10th june 11th the drafts june 17th june 18th and then that first day free agency frenzy starts June 27th. And it's like, this is a day. ESPN, clear it out. Clear the decks. You guys are on for six, seven straight hours. It would be like the first day of Weekend of March Madness. It would be incredible. Who's going where?

Paul George? And it just feels like they're missing the window. So hopefully they'll fix that. So let's go in order. Let's talk about Hayward first. I can't wait. Talk about the Celtics. Yeah, you're a Sixers fan.

I'm a Celtics fan. Well, let's talk first about, this seemed like this was the destiny of how this was going to play out for months and months and months because of the Brad Stevens connection. Yeah. And near the tail end, there was some Utah. No, tail end, it was all Miami. All weekend, it was all Miami. But then it turned out Miami was ruled out the night before.

Right. But days leading up to Monday, I felt like there was a lot of Miami noise. That Riley did the dump the rings. That South Beach was really putting the zap on his head. He was really into it. I'm out on Riley. Riley lost LeBron. Couldn't get Durant.

I think the magic's gone. He's just a 71-year-old guy who can't get guys anymore. Who's that about? So Hayward, let's do the pie chart. 50% Brad Stevens, I'm going to say. I'm going to say 25% Celtics tradition, fact that they're a contender already, and 25% Eastern Conference. You think that came into play because he was like,

if I stay in Utah. I'm going to say pro-con list. It's like, I'm in Utah. What's my team? Who's got worse blue laws, Salt Lake City or Boston? Probably you, Salt Lake City. But he's probably looking at it like, I played in this playoff series against the Warriors

and we got waxed. And we played pretty well and we lost every game. Yeah. It's not even like we can't say oh man if we had done this that it's like no we gave them our best shot game three we played as well as we could possibly play we lost by 10 and at this point so I'm gonna be here I'm never gonna be one of the best four forwards in the west I'm never gonna be on one of the best four teams in the West. I'm going to go this way. So yeah, I think not making all NBA might have had something to do with that. Just because he's probably thinking to himself, like, I, if I play in a, in a market where more people are watching me on national television, it just increases the mindshare I have on the NBA media and on the NBA

fans. Like it's just going to increase tenfold. That being said, I actually, after it all shook out and Danny didn't get what he got, and I don't know that Boston's that much better than Utah in terms of being a team. It's a better conference to be in for sure, and it'll be a better conference for the years to come. I think they're a better team and more assets. Yeah.

Don't you think? I think they have a lot of assets. What's he going to do with them? In the seven-game series, you just remove Hayward from the series. Who wins that series? Remove Hayward from the series and go bare. Boston versus Utah, everyone's healthy. Hayward's not on either team. Boston will probably win.

But in two years, Boston's going to have to make all these decisions about their great backcourt. All these guys who have been sort of keeping the team propped up for a couple years, like Avery, Smart, and Isaiah. And this could be the team. I mean, I know that everybody's always like the assets, the assets,

and he's going to have to get rid of some of them sooner or later. You can't just keep drafting small forwards. See, this was the summer they had to get somebody. I think now it's fine because now next year you pay Isaiah 30, 32, whatever, but you can go over there. They're basically in the same spot

the Warriors were in this year with Durant. We were talking about Jimmy Butler, Paul George with Hayward. That was always the thing was this two stars. And they kind of let the message get a little out of control. It's like you have Wick out there being like, we need two stars. And I know that they shouldn't say that. Yeah, but now it's like you can't help but

judge Boston's last three months as a failure because they had the number. You sound like my dad. What if they drafted Fultz and you have the number one draft pick? And I know that you think Markel Fultz have Jeff Green body language. I love it. It's very detached. Yeah, right.

He's really detached. And Tatum's just a monster. Tatum. Tatum, one of the great competitors. Tatum integrates with his teammates. That's what I like. He's basically a Bayern Urlacher in a small form. Very good on chemistry.

Sure. But I just think if you draft Fultz and then you have this number one pick, point guard of the future, and you bring in Hayward, there's a different feeling of we chipped down to get this guy who is sort of in the same positional area as Jalen Brown Gordon Hayward and we're holding on to picks

and we're just sort of keeping and now it's starting again it's starting again with Marc Gasol today Chris Mannix reporting that they're going after Gasol and it's like okay great Chris Mannix said that Boston was going to go after Marc Gasol with a short trade really, okay, great. Chris Maddox said that Boston was going to go after Marc Gasol for a trade. Really? Yeah.

I think they screwed up the Paul George thing. My take on the Paul George thing is they had really heavy talks with them at the draft. They came close. Indy said, we want to wait. Boston said, cool. If we're going to wait until after the thing, let us sign Hayward first, then we'll come back.

Pritchard's like great and then i think they made the mistake of just not checking in every six hours of them i think the flip side of that buying a house you check in with the realtor every hey nobody made an offer on the house right we're good right yeah i don't think they did that i think they fell asleep and then also pritchard did this crazy trade this was another thing that boston didn't control the message very well about which is this like this mysterious sequence of events that needed to happen so that they could get these two stars. Yeah, why are they in charge of the sequence?

Indy has Paul George. This is what drove me crazy about this. Indy's in the driver's seat, not Boston. Right. But they're like, you've got to wait. Yeah. And if that was the case, they should have gotten a firm agreement and said, hey, Friday night, midnight, Gordon's signing with us.

Well, they weren't the only team that, you know, I was in touch with a lot of teams after that. And everybody, and this is confirmed by all the other reporters who talked to everybody, too. Everybody was stunned. Everybody found out about that trade on Twitter. Pritchard never circled back last minute and said, George is going. I need your best offer right now. He just made the trade. Right. Which put this way, I judge

everything in real sports by what happens if somebody does it in fantasy. First of all, in fantasy, if somebody makes that trade, people go crazy. Right. If we're in a fantasy keeper league and somebody's like, I just traded Paul George for Oladipo and Sabonis, like there's, there's a hundred email thread about what a dick this guy is.

Get out of the league. Like it gets really personal. You bring up the time he shit on himself in college. Like it gets really ugly. See the thing that I think it, I hate fantasy, but I think it's a lot like a fantasy trade because there's really not tanking in fantasy.

I think that's what people were really confused about is if Pritchard has this thickest guy, why not get as many picks and young players as possible? And instead he gets like a 25-year-old Victor Oladipo who has probably hit a ceiling of some sort and a Sabonis who was like okay last year, right? And is going to be okay this year. I think he was worse than okay. By the end of the year, it was really interesting hearing people talk about him as this prospect. I liked him coming out of college.

He didn't have a position and he got worse as the year went along and in the playoffs couldn't play. Well, I don't think young players, I don't think Russ and young players mesh because young players need probably consistent touches and as those games wind down, Sabonis either was benched or a ghost on the court. But you know I judge

all this stuff by could you have played in the finals I just watched. I don't think he has a position. You know somebody like Olenek who took a long time to kind of become somebody who could at least be the ninth man on a playoff team and he's like basically a stretch five who can't rebound. Can't

really guard anybody. But if you play off him he can either shoot threes or he can go into the lane and do the herky-jerky Kelly Linick stuff. So Bonas can't do that. He can't post up. He doesn't shoot free throws. I don't know what he is. I think he's an 11th man.

But if Pritchard's mandate or what he wants is to stay around 40 wins at least. That's ridiculous. Like then they signed Darren Collison for $20 million for two years. That guy's a backup. You're paying a backup. You're paying a backup 10 million. I think he did a terrible job. Like if I was a Pacer fan, I know they had to get rid of Paul George.

I know he's leaving. I know he's going to play in LA in a year. Like we all get it. Okay. So he's renting him for a year. They have no chance at resigning him. He's going to LA like for the, the possibility of all,

if they do well, maybe he'll, he's not staying. He's going to LA. The whole staying. He's going to LA. The whole league knows he's going to LA. So this almost seemed like part trying to trick Westbrook into thinking that they're a contender. And part just kind of throwing everyone off the scent for a year. That the destiny of this team, if they don't sign Westbrook

to that super max, is that that is now the worst situation in the league. Right. So now you get Patrick Patterson, which I thought was really smart. I like the OKC team. Yeah. I think in the West, I mean, in the East, that's a three seed. Yeah. And in the West, it's like a seven, eight seed.

They're going to get annihilated in round one. But at least it's like a 7-8 seed. They're going to get annihilated in round one. But at least it's something. But I think the Celtics screwed up. Because there is a way for them to get Paul George and Hayward and not give up Jalen Brown or Tatum. I think that the best case scenario for Oklahoma City is that they have a lot of fun this year. Win a lot of regular season games.

They click. And then they somehow convince those guys to sign two-year deals or something. lot of fun this year yeah win a lot of regular season games like like they they click and then deep in the somehow convince those guys to sign two-year deals or something they're not going to sign five years this is the best case scenario right that's their best case yeah and that you're like hey why go to the lakers who are basically rebuilding or you know obviously their dream scenario is lebron and george on the lakers or whatever they've got planned. But Presti wants to be able to look and say like, why would you go to the Lakers and start over when we're, you know, this away from, we're a Kawhi knee tweak away from being the second best team in the West. And Paul George says, because LeBron's going there.

Yes. And who's the other guy who would go there? To the Lakers? Yeah. I mean. Who are the other 18 free agents? Take your pick of like banana boat guys who would go, go To the Lakers? Yeah. I mean... Who are the other 18 free agents? Take your pick of like banana boat guys who would go play there. Oh my god.

It already makes me mad. I mean the Celtics, that pick they got when you look at how loaded the West is now and they got this pick from Philly in the false trade that is basically guaranteed to be between 2 and 5 or it rolls over this Kings pick. You can make a case that that pick is going to be between two and five.

If you're going to bet your life on it one way or the other, I would bet my life two and five because Sacramento is much better. Minnesota is much better. Denver got Millsap. The Clippers, who could have just punted on everything, instead, we're going to talk about it, went the other way and doubled down on Blake and Colin for $250 million. They might get Derrick Rose, which is just going to be just more injury guys. Incredible for tendon surgeons in Los Angeles. But you have, yeah, you have a terrible training staff, a coach who doesn't

really emphasize practice or anything. And then a bunch of injured guys. It's a disaster. But you go down the line in the, in the West, it's like the Lakers are clearly the worst team in the West. Who is the second worst team? I don't even know. Phoenix? Yeah, Phoenix. Phoenix is probably worse than the Lakers. But I like Phoenix's team. I think Phoenix is worse than the Lakers. I think if you just go player by player like Lonzo, it's going to be

early trying to figure it out, Lonzo. Lonzo, Brooke, Randall, Ingram. Oh, I forgot about Brooke. Yeah, that's pretty even. That'd be fun. Oh, I forgot about Brooke. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty even. That'd be fun. So those are the two worst. Yeah. Booker might be 25 a game this year.

Josh Jackson might be good right away. Aren't those guys all 20, though? I mean, I think that just at the end of the day, those guys will probably run out of gas a little bit on the back. So that's your bottom two in the West. Yes. After that, you move into this weird zone of teams that became much more competitive and have ideas for the eight seed.

That's the other thing about the West is these teams like Utah and Oklahoma and New Orleans who don't have much depth or maybe they should blow it up, but they're going to stick around. You know what I mean? And I think Utah will play bully ball and make things really hard for teams. I don't know what's going to happen. The New Orleans is really the mystery to me. They could be...

Is that a playoff team with three guys? They have three guys. And they just gave Holiday way too much money for somebody. To me, durability with free agents is the most underrated thing. Yeah. Danny tweeted that yesterday. I thought it was really smart. It's crazy. The Teague versus most underrated thing. Yeah. Danny tweeted that yesterday. I thought it was really smart. It's crazy.

Teague versus George Hill. Yeah. Durability thing. George Hill's missed, but what, 80 games in the last three years. But you look at Gallinari, who has played more than 65 games twice in his whole career.

You look at Blake Griffin, who's been hurt eight different times. Who's hurt now, who has something, you know, a healing plate in his foot. On top of all the other surgeries he's had, they gave him $175 million for five years.

And if you're wrong, you're screwed. Yeah. And that, you know, and your team's in a little bit of this mix too because all this buzz now about they're ready to compete and got brought the vets in and it's like, I want to see Embiid play 50 games. Can I see 50? Yeah in and it's like i want to see mb play 50 games can i see 50 yeah it's totally fair that's why we traded for the number one pick it's it's it's it's not only is it building a team it's insurance it's like yes we might have like uh a moriball elijah one who can shoot threes and and defend the paint moriball elijah but we might

also have like damian lillard who plays defense which is great you know what i mean we might also have like Damian Lillard who plays defense, which is great. You know what I mean? We might have like a foundational point guard. So if Embiid does wind up being a guy who, who's just battling injuries the rest of his career and has never fulfills his potential, it's not,

we're still in a good shape. We still have two other number one picks on the floor. You have homeschooled Damian Lillard who plays defense. Cause they read it. People are like, Hey, Mark, how do do you know have you ever watched this show like no i've never seen anything and it wasn't allowed to watch tv when i was a kid he made two blocks in that summer league game which is one of the most entertaining summer league games i've ever watched in my life also he's got the like weird chris paul harden change of pace already where he like gets into the lane and throws his butt out and then has one guy on

his arm and he just does a little floater. I'm already in love. I will say though, and I'm not ruling it out because I think he'll get older and stronger, but I don't think he has the three-point range yet. I think he has it if his feet are set, but you could see it if he's off balance, he almost can't even get it to the rim. He'll get there eventually.

Off-brand chip England wizardry will get dropped at him. This is why I loveon roy in college and why i was convinced i just couldn't believe when he went six that year even though i guess his knees were probably the reason but he faults has that he has two moves that are just going to be worth 20 points a game in the pros the spin move that nobody has anymore except for like three guys and he could just go in traffic spin and he's already at the rim and then that little it's it's like this he's like carrying it for a second that kevin durant called it a hezy jimbo yeah jimbo i don't know if that's what he was talking about yeah that little crossover he has is unstoppable and then he's got the pull-up like that guy's clearly a scorer i love tatum i think tatum's pa Pierce. I think everybody wins. I don't think there's going to be

any regrets or like, oh my God, we shouldn't have done that. I think both sides are going to be happy. Great. I'll see you in the Eastern Conference Finals. I'm sure everybody who's listening to this is like, please give us a break. Did you know that you can listen to the Bill Simmons podcast and the Watch, your podcast with Andy Greenwald and others from the Ringer family on Spotify?

I love Spotify. The streaming service that you know and love for music is fully loaded with podcasts. Find us in the podcast section within the browse tab when you're using Spotify on mobile or just by searching for the Bill Simmons podcast. How long have you been a Spotify guy? Years. And Andy and I just did a 4th of July barbecue playlist, which is still relevant. Oh yeah.

You put the playlist on every once in a while, right? How do we find those? You can find them at the watch pod twitter or at like search the username andy greenwald or chris ryan 77 how was the fourth of july was it better than the playlist i had going yesterday no you you had some really you had some classics i had to tell you something that was nice about the playlist is that uh aside from your your ardent respect for the dgc rarity cd yeah which i love yeah uh you had a couple of classics on there but i for some aside from your ardent respect for the DGC Rarities CD, which I love, you had a couple of classics on there,

but for some reason, I was listening to Young Americans by Bowie, and I was like, God damn it, David Bowie was really good at songwriting. There was a part of that song that I had sort of forgotten because you always remember the beginning and not the last third. It was just really a nice little moment with Bowie.

He had, yeah, like 12 songs. I feel like he's the lost guy from that decade. Bowie? Yeah. Bowie's God. I think people really respect it. No, for the nephew Kyle's generation. Oh, for the kids?

Bowie? No? Yeah. He's giving a thumbs up. Yeah. He's so many good ones. I think he gets lost. I think the Stones have endured. I think he's so many good ones. I think he gets lost. Like, I think the Stones have endured.

I think the Beatles have endured. And some other ones, but. For the kids. Yeah. For the kids, for the millennials. Anyway, click to follow us. Our new episodes for the Bill Simmons podcast to watch. Any other Ringer podcast delivered right into your Spotify library.

Head to Spotify.com slash podcast for more that's spotify.com slash podcast or just search uh on the browse tab in the podcast section anyway uh quickly about boston because they're boston has a really pivotal no they they there's nothing left right there's no big free agents left no weirdly the biggest piece right now is this jay crowder trade that they have to make. And now it's 10 o'clock on Wednesday. But they have to trade Jay Crowder. Jay Crowder has a phenomenal contract, $7 million a year. I think he's under contract for this year and the next two.

And when you look at what's happened with the salary cap, which we're going to talk about in a second, where the salary cap goes backwards, nobody's prepared for it. It's a luxury tax disaster. Nobody has money. People have to get rid of guys. They're paying teams with number one picks to get rid of things. And here's Jay Crowder,

who's started for a one seed on the Eastern Conference, who's an overrated defender, but he's above average. But I think the perception is he's an all defense kind of defender. He's not. A good three-point shooter when he's open all defense kind of defender. He's not a good three point shooter when he's open, plays really hard, durable,

and is available now for 7 million. And it's a, it's a like for a team like Miami who struck out, they just add him in whatever trade as a starter that makes them better. Team like Utah makes him make some better. I think he'd help Milwaukee. Indiana, if they just wanted to continue their quest for 42 wins. How impatient are you?

Do you want to get involved in a Melo situation? Do you want to start putting together a package for Melo? No, the Melo ship is sealed. Okay. Would they have to trade Crowder because they have to fit the Hayward contract? They have 24 hours. That would make sense for him to be part of a Gasol deal if that's going to happen.

Memphis is like they didn't offer Jermichael Green. They got rid of Zach Randolph right now. Memphis is doing what they should have done two years ago. Well, but they still have two all stars. So it's this is sort of one of the big things that's it's it's kind of bothering me because I feel like it's punishing teams for doing a pretty good job. You either have to win the lottery five times, like metaphorically and also literally, or you are bad. And if you have two great players, if you're New Orleans, if you're Washington, and you have great talent, but you just because of the cap and because of the cap shrinkage and

it's like Washington's screwed for re-signing Otto Porter. That doesn't make any sense to me. You know, they have to hope that Kelly Oubre has like three more years. I would, I will only say the NBA has always worked like this. The cap has been in existence since 82. And they've never really figured out how to make it fair for everybody. And right now the small market teams are in the worst shape they've ever been in. Because you can sign these long-term contracts now for a hundred million dollars that aren't

long-term. They're three years. And it's no, it's the risk on the players is so much less, but they're getting paid anyway. Whereas in the old days, the advantage would be here's five years and a lot of money. And now for these players, it's like, I can go here for three years and a lot of money and then I have my free agency three years from now. I don't know how these small markets regroup. And this is the first summer where I really look at it and go, man, it would really suck to root for Utah or Indiana or Oklahoma City or any of these teams

because these guys are going to leave. Because the guillotine's hanging over you. Everyone's smarter. Everyone's smarter about creating cap space for targeting guys. The tampering is out of control. The guys on teams are just going and openly recruiting people from other teams. And I think we're in a real danger zone with the small markets,

which is exactly the opposite of what they're hoping for. That's what I'm saying. So a team like Memphis is essentially being punished for having Gasol and Conley. You could argue maybe we're at the point now where we have to start looking at, should Memphis have a basketball team? No, they should have a basketball team. That's one of the best fan communities in the league. I'm with you.

I'm making the case if there's probably five markets in the league that I would call small, right? Memphis. OKC. Charlotte. Maybe it's Charlotte. Maybe Charlotte's a little bigger than medium. I think a lot of these places are Indiana.

Yeah. New Orleans is not necessarily an NBA town. Portland. Orlando. Or do people know Orlando has the tax advantage? New Orleans is not necessarily an NBA town. Portland? Or do people love it? No, Orlando has the tax advantage. But you could argue, like, should Memphis have a team and should Seattle not? Seattle would be a big market team. That's not where I would start.

Why wouldn't you start there? Because I think that the people, like, if you watch Memphis during the playoffs and if you watch Memphis during the regular season, like i'm not i'm not down i know i'm not i know it's not a referendum on the fans but there is a support system there for a team and that yes that should they shouldn't have given chandler parsons 94 million dollars like that is a problem right but part of the issue is that because these guys are all being punished for being like for trying their best. And so that you've got like Boston sitting on like three number one picks

and the Sixers sitting on all these picks. And it's just like, there's not an equal distribution of young talent throughout the league when this is the way, when the lottery is the way it works. Those are two flukes though, because Boston has the N the nets trade which is but isn't that just the flip side of making a stupid chandler parsons signing you know i mean but that's the thing if you're a small market you can't screw up basically that's what we've

learned this decade that's what you can say yes the chandler parsons thing you screw that up you've ruined your cap and now it's over right and you you have no way of regrouping other than their trade with Saul and Conley. I don't know. It's like Memphis is a great example, right? Great fan base. Love the team. Super committed to it. They don't generate a ton of local revenue. Like their local cable, all that stuff, sponsorships, suites, courtsides, they just don't make as much as a bigger market team. Their margin of error becomes

you know you can almost touch your fingers together and they can't screw up and what we're seeing now is like those six small markets with no margin of error it's the bleakest thing we've seen in a long time i think cleveland is there too the moment LeBron leaves. You know, I think there was one other team. Oh, Minnesota. Minnesota was 10 years of just complete bleaklets. Now they have Towns, they got Wiggins, they got Butler. It's fine now, but maybe it's not fine in two years if Towns leaves, you know? And I don't know how they fix this.

I really don't. Because I don't think there's any market that should lose their team with the possible exception of new Orleans. I'm not positive why new Orleans has a basketball team. I think there, I think there was a lot of goodwill put into it, but I'm not positive that they're a better solution than Seattle. Right. I think Seattle should have a team. And if you just start looking like who, who should not have a team, you probably start with new Orleans. Now Memphis, if they have to trade Gasol and Conley and start over,

we haven't seen any of these small markets in a situation yet during the secondary market era where it's a shit show where it's like our team sucks. And you should get season tickets for us. Cause two years from now, we're going to be good. But everybody would look at that and go, nah, I'm good. I'm not going to get season tickets. us because two years from now we're going to be good but everybody would look at that and go no i'm good i'm not going to get season tickets so now what do you do so you think part do you think part of the issue along with that is that this rule that was created for this these max and super max deals that were supposed to entice

the talent on smaller markets to stay didn't work and so far nobody has actually taken the deal right because you can make so much money short term now, you don't need to. You can do three for a hundred, like the Millsap contract, three for 90. So what is that? Is that the players pull a fast one? Or is it, I mean, I don't think there should be a cap.

I think these guys, I almost feel like it should be like soccer where these guys can make as much money as they possibly can. But there's no cap. Now you're crossing off all these teams. I guess so. Now you're crossing off every small market team. If you can have DeMarcus Cousins and Anthony Davis on the same team and you have to lock Drew Holiday into $130 million,

then you're screwed. And that's not fair. It's not fair that the two best big men in the league, basically, are on the same team. And it should be amazing. You should want to watch New Orleans every night, but instead you're going to have to watch the ghost of Ashi come out.

And it's just, that's crazy. That's a competitive disadvantage when New Orleans has the looming Anthony Davis might leave thing combined with the looming Boogie can leave in a year thing, and they have to give Drew Holiday $125 million when he can't stay in the court. And we were arguing about it in our NBA slack. Is he a top 15 point guard or not?

They had no choice. We settled around he's 16, 17. He'll never be an all-star. He's a pretty mediocre three-point shooter for that position. Doesn't get to the line. I'm higher on Drew. Plays 65 games. I know.

You watched him a lot. Yeah. And I also think that 6'4 point guards who know how to play the position and get a big man the ball is a huge deal. Having some kid who's only ever played a season of college in AAU who doesn't know how to pass

the post is not going to work for Davis. Like what you're going to have with Fultz. Really no idea. He's not going to have to pass the post. He's won nine games in three years. Let him beat Marco Foltz. I wonder. So here's the other thing.

And I, if somebody has made this point, forgive me, but I haven't seen it yet. Are we headed toward, you know, Donald Sterling for years and years was basically like, I'm being cheap with my team.

Yeah. Use the team as an ATM. Yeah. I'm in LA. I have prime beachfront real estate here. And that's good enough. And I'll just keep collecting your revenue checks. And the owners hated him.

Never cared about making the team better. He was a tenant in the Lakers arena. Just didn't care. I wonder if we're going to head to a world now where four or five teams are going to look at this and go, you know what? I'll do salary floor. I'll do a version of the hanky plan.

My team will stink. I'm not going to pay money and I'm just going to rake in revenue sharing. I'm going to make 50 to 60 million a year. They trade away Conley. Trade away Gasol, Conley. And it's like, you write off the Chandler Parsons contract.

This is what Indiana should have done. They can, I guess, because I think the owner is one of those, we got to compete every year guys. Yeah. But Indiana should have said, if you want Paul George, take Monte Ellis' contract with him. Our salary will be at the floor. We'll make 65 million bucks.

And we're the Michael Porter sweepstakes we're in the Michael Porter sweepstakes. We're in the Michael Porter sweepstakes and we'll rake in 60 million in revenue because the revenue sharing is so high right now. I think that's the destiny for some of these teams. Well, that's going to be, if we're worried about what the NBA looks like now after this playoffs

or like just the sort of competitive balance, it's going to be pretty dark if like 10 teams are just like, this isn't even, we're not even here tonight. But this is, you're a Premier League guy. this is the premier league this is yeah but the premier league is the threat of relegation right so i mean they they don't want that you know it's really hard to get back into the premier league once you go down there are teams that were in the premier league five years ago that are falling out of the championship that are going into league

league one now so that's that's those guys have to deal with the idea of basically going out of business. Robert Pera doesn't have to worry about going out of business. Our dream scenario would be if if the G League now it's called became great enough that it could be its own version of relegation. And yeah, but the television deals and deals these teams make with cities, they would never allow that. That's why it's a dream scenario. There's a cool version of this. 20 teams in London. It's not the same thing.

You know what I mean? There are teams in London who were in the Premier League and now aren't. It's just the way it's geographically set up. It would never work. If we had a 24-team league and then the bottom six were just in some other league, it would be incredible. You and I have talked about this before. It would be great if there was some sort of in-season parallel tournament

so that there was an incentive to see good basketball from teams that pretty much are out of it. I would be so sad and bummed out if I rooted for one of these teams that is now clearly hopeless. And the major experience I've had with just losing a star to another team was Clements when he left the Red Sox for the Bougies. And that wasn't a small market thing. That was more of a respect thing. And then he got in shape and it was so agonizing and it made me so mad that like, I can't imagine what a Utah fan feels about Gordon Hayward. It's like, I watched Gordon Hayward for seven years. I watched

him develop. I'm talking as Utah fan. Yeah, sure. I watched him develop into this awesome all-star forward and this efficient scorer. And it seemed like he could never get to that next level. And then last season he did. He was a legitimate go-to guy and a good team.

And now he's gone. Well, here's, so I think part of it is the way that we, it's hard to see outside of the bubble of like basketball, Twitter and basketball media. But I think part of it is the way that we, it's hard to see outside of the bubble of like basketball Twitter and basketball media. But I think part of it is how we talk about

basketball specifically, but pro sports in general, which is either it's titles or tanking. You're either like a title contender or you're tanking. And if it's anything in between, you're basically punching a card and like you're punching the clock because you're not, you're on this treadmill of mediocrity. And that's actually, but that's actually not that, when you're, if you're punching the clock because you're not you're on this treadmill of mediocrity and that's actually weird is that that's actually not that when you're if you're a utah fan and

you're a fifth seed and you get out of the first round and you lose to the eventual champions you're kind of like that was a fun season i hope that we can advance farther but that was like a good use of your time cheering for the jazz and it's like yeah i don't know that you're necessarily consumed with man are we stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity are we ever going to get out of the second round we worry about that for guys like chris paul we put that on them but for fans i think that i think wizards fans are heartbroken on a yearly basis but would they take it all like would they rather tank than have john wall jump up on the scorers table that's like a great moment yeah that's true that's true i just think i think that it's starting to permeate. I just think, I think that it's starting

to permeate the way that teams are built. I think it's starting to permeate the way that players see themselves. And I think a guy like Paul George is like, I would rather be

in a high profile situation with a lot of volatility like LA than just be a legend and have my number retired in Indiana and losing the Eastern Conference semis every year.

You know, it's interesting about what you just said? Two teams that never did titles or tank were Boston and Houston, right? Darryl has two superstars now, did not have a top five pick, had multiple chances to just throw the team away and didn't, and just try to collect assets and pounce, which is what Boston did. Boston did the Pierce Garnett trade.

And it seemed like, oh, here we go. Do the Isaiah trade, which makes no sense, like in the big picture, whatever. But they were just like, he's an asset. Let's get him. And all of a sudden, they're pretty good. I'm pretty skeptical about the way Houston is constructed right now, though. I am too.

But I think if we were running Houston, we would take it. Sure. I'll figure this out. Chris Paul and James Harden. He's like, yeah, this is what it takes. The only thing that I would say is that things change. And seven, eight years ago, we were talking this way about Golden State. I would say a year ago, we were talking about whether markets mattered anymore.

Sure. And it's like, it's like Durant doesn't matter where Durant plays. He plays OKC. He's got the number one shoe. Yeah. And now I think it's flipped again. And now you're looking at Golden State. The Lakers matter again. I think the Knicks are eventually going to matter again.

Boston, Chicago eventually. And then the Texas Florida are eventually going to matter again. Boston, Chicago eventually, and then the Texas-Florida teams with the no income tax. And those are just teams that have huge advantages. I agree with you, but I don't think it's entirely financial. I think that we have gotten to the point, though, with this tanking and titles thing, that the reason why we're seeing talent clusters or super teams

is because these guys are a little bit more comfortable with the idea like this this whole like i have to win it on my own and the only way we're going to determine whether kevin durant is better than lebron james is if the durant thunder and the james calves went head to head and and durant bested him yeah these asterisks is that we have fixed those are going away they're fading i don't think that in three years if lebron paul george and i don't i don't think that in three years, if LeBron, Paul George, and I don't know who, like, and Brandon Ingram win a title in three years.

Monzo. Yeah. And LeVar. Are you going to just say like Paul George, are you going to put an, like Paul George is going to feel the same way about doing that as he would have if like he got to the Eastern Conference Finals with Indiana in five years with Miles Turner. Let's talk about our longtime buddies at Simply Safe.

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SimpliSafeBS.com for 10% off your order. We got to run through some stuff quickly here. OKC. Love it. I'm so excited. Paul George, Westbrook, Patrick Patterson with a very smart signing. Steven Adams.

Yep. And Roberson. And Ennis Cantor. George, Westbrook, Patrick Patterson with a very smart signing, Steven Adams, and Roberson. And Ennis Cantor. Just those five, it's a pain in the ass team to play. That's like a bulldog, good defense, there's three point shooting. Should I say right now, can we just say right now that they're paying more for this team

than they would have if they had just kept for the original guys? Yeah, the James Harden's rent? Yeah. I mean, that's out of the way. I think Presti, you know, I still think the James Harden trade was the worst trade of this decade. But did a nice job. The Paul George rental for a year. Let's see what they have.

Let's make a run. Maybe we upset some guys. Like, they now have a puncher's chance. They're making the playoffs for sure. They're making the playoffs for sure they're making the playoffs who the hell knows also can't they hold a paul george auction in february if they want to that's the thing and that's the part everybody missed with this trade it's like well they're renting them this is stupid it's like yeah they're renting them but he's a fucking asset and in

february you might be able to flip them for more than victor oladip and Sabonis, like if they got rid of Oladipo on July 1st or June 30th or whatever, just for expiring contracts, people would have been like smart, smart, solid cap space, good move by them. And instead the expiring contract they got was Paul George. Right. Smart. And the GM-less Cavs, if they get to February and it's like a weird, bad season of back to people getting cut out of Instagram photos and griping about whether or not they're willing to pay to keep the team.

Would they do Love, who's still under contract, for Paul George? Love's got to be bummed. He was in like 40 trade rumors. Yeah. That's not going well. We're back at that point. We're back at the point where we were with the first Blatt season where everybody's going to be a little bit uncomfortable with each other. It's bad.

I can feel him checking out during that finals too as just like he knew he was going to be the fall guy. I got to say, this was the point that has not been made enough during this Paul George thing. I can't believe they didn't just take Kevin Love for him. If you're going to pay 20 plus million a year for Oladipo and Zabonis, I'd much rather have Kevin Love. But like the Cavs fired or got rid of their GM right before what they were trying to do. Three team trades to send Kevin Love to Denver. They needed to send,

they wanted to get the pick back. Just take Kevin Love. Right. All right. Well, we'll take them. We'll take a guy who averaged a 26-14 four years ago and who has played big minutes in finals games

and was badly misused and mismanaged in Cleveland. We'll roll the dice with this guy. He might be one of the best offensive forwards in the league. How much of a conspiracy theorist are you about this? Does it bother you, the idea that... Oh, there's no conspiracy. He didn't want to help Paul George win the title. Who didn't?

Pritchard. I think this was, I will go to my grave thinking this was 100% a spite move that they had this silent agreement. And then Paul George went public and said, you know, they should trade me. Yeah, I mean, that was a very candid press conference he did where he was like, this is a gut punch. This comes at the worst possible time, et cetera. I think he was like, screw you. I'm not

sending you to the Lakers. I'm not making you happy there. I'm not sending you to a team that might actually win the title. Then I'm going to have to see you four times a year. I'm not sending you to an Eastern Conference juggernaut like Boston, potentially. Go to OKC. You'll be a six seed. You'll win nothing. And now you're on your own. Screw you.

I really feel like that's what happened. I think it was a trade made out of spite. And I think he made a mistake. I just, at the end of the day, like whether that's the case or not, I think that, I think that Ainge and the Cavs both have to be like, well, we could have had him.

You know what I mean? Yeah, Ainge more than the Cavs. Ainge, I just feel like they, and you can see it because right afterwards, they're leaking everybody. Do you care about LeBron not recruiting for the Cavs at all i think it matters i think the two most under the radar fascinating things was that lebron's clearly going to be a free agent in a year and didn't made it clear to everybody i'm here for one year and i think john walmart accepting the supermax was a fascinating wrinkle

why not four years 168 million here it is. Are you going to be in Washington or not? Why didn't he accept it? If you know you're going to stay in Washington and you know that's your team and you're riding on it. Is John Walls the agent? Yeah. Rich Paul. Yeah.

Just saying. Yeah. I think that's a significant thing. I don't know why that wasn't a bigger deal because he's on a team now with Beal and Porter and they're spending money and they're over the tax. There's the Lakers point guard that you were wondering about. So you'd have John Wall, Lonzo, LeBron, Paul George,

Brandon Ingram. I don't even know if you can get all those guys. I think you could if you get rid of the Mozgov deal. You use Randall to get rid of Mozgov from February. Well, they traded Mozgov. They got rid of Dang. Not Mozgov 5, Dang. Yeah, yeah. The Dang deal. They'll have like 80

next year. So you think John Wall is going to give you a clutch team? I'm just saying that that is in the... The clutch all-stars. Sure. Sure. If I'm a Wizards fan... John Wall wants to win a title. Like, John Wall, you can... We're not positive he likes Beal either.

No, I think he does. And I think those guys, like, play really well together. You're positive? I think he likes him. Like, they seem much closer at the end of the year than they did at the beginning of the year for whatever it's worth. If he likes Beal, why doesn't he want to stay with him?

Because he wants... In Chocolate City. He's obviously got a huge chip on his shoulder about a number of things. One is the fact that he thinks he's probably way better than the talent around him and that he should be competing for a title. And I love that about him.

He is one of those guys where it's like when he gets on the court and he's playing against Steph, he's like, I'm better than Steph. It's the same thing that Westbrook has. Not in the half court. I love the way that he plays. I think that he's probably like, he really wanted Paul George to come to DC.

He wanted that to happen, but there's nothing there. So now he's looking at his super max where it's like, essentially the rest of his career will be in Washington. The best years of his career will be in Washington with Bradley Beal, which is like a pretty nice. That sounds great. And that's it though. And get boogie in a year.

Well, then they should hire a, they should get themselves a GM who knows what, like who can really make some stuff. He's turning down 40 million a year guaranteed from DC on a team that almost made the conference finals just now I'm alarmed if I'm a Washington yeah I'm just flat out alarmed yeah and so and I'm just saying like between the two the two things of like John Wall not signing a max deal and LeBron being awfully quiet over this period of time that just feels like could you see wall see I think wall and

boogie are tight and i wouldn't rule that out either they're just going to that's like atlanta right and just like let's start our own team in atlanta and coach cow coach cow is our coach gm let's just have the kentucky all-stars what the hell is atlanta doing atlanta i don't even know who runs atlanta now travis shank did the worst job of anyone this these last two. Because somehow they paid Bazemore and didn't pay anyone else. They paid their six-pence guy. Them and Portland were the two teams that I think were a little bit victims of the cap explosion and then the contraction. Olshay simultaneously was the worst guy of the last 15 months, but then made two awesome trades.

Right. He got Nurkic. He got Nurkic. He got Nurkic for nothing and got a first round pick out of it and then somehow moved 15 and 20 to 10. He took the wrong guy, but that's fine. They still got Collins. It's better than being at 15 and 10.

I think this whole cap thing, if I'm any team right now that has a chance to keep cap space and just cherry pick dudes like the Jay Crowder types that are going to start becoming available, that's where I want to be. This is the biggest bummer of all this, by the way,

is that we're back to talking about cap space. Oh yeah. Yeah. Just in general. Like we had this stuff though. I don't mind it, but I didn't, I like this.

I like the other parts about this storyline. I don't love the accounting as much. You know what I mean? And it's, and it's obviously it obviously something went wrong here. So many teams are going to be paying luxury tax just to keep their cores together. So that just seems like it's not working quite right.

Speaking of accounting, let's talk about the Watch podcast really quickly. You and Andy Greenwald, when did it start, 2011? Yeah. How many have you done, you think? Oh, since the ringer started two weeks since grantland oh probably like 500 i mean i've been doing it for years it's one of the signature pop culture podcasts out there and your guys are about to hit your version of the playoffs

game of thrones yeah i thought i was done but they pulled me back in thrones you're you have a couple game of thrones things going on because we're doing this show for Twitter that we're super excited about. Last year we did After the Thrones on HBO. Watch the Thrones or After the Thrones? After the Thrones. Watch the Thrones when it was at Greenland After the Thrones on HBO. And the problem with the HBO thing was

because of all their satellite deal and all that stuff it couldn't run until 26 hours after the show which is weird. It would be like having, and you know, the post game show of an NBA playoff game happened 26 hours after the game.

Yeah. It's just a weird way to do it. Now we're going to be on Twitter. We're pinned at the top of the Twitter feeds. Talk the Thrones. Talk the Thrones, which we'll do a preview show and then we'll have seven

during the seven episode run. You andy greenwald your watch partner and malory rubin jason concepcion game of thrones ends go on twitter we'll be there we're off 45 minutes i'm excited because i watch game of thrones i don't know half the guys i i know half the ladies i don't know what happened half the time i just want somebody to tell me what happened we're we're we're me what happened. We're your team for that. We're going to do it. Is Mallory going to be able to physically make it?

Yeah. Mal's replenishing herself. She's in Miami doing the blood platelet treatment. Yeah. She could do a tour to France. She went to Italy? No, she's coming back strong. Okay.

So because Mallory is doing the binge mode Game of Thrones, we have put up five seasons. And if you want to relive Game of Thrones and get ready for it highly recommended podcast for me it's the deepest of the deep dives there's never been

a deeper dive this is like what's that movie 47 meters yeah this is no this is the abyss oh this is the abyss yeah this is Mary Elizabeth

Master Antonio yeah we're just in a cave way down there so anyway so you can catch up on Game of Thrones on Binge Mode and then The Watch with Chris and Andy. Andy's now like a famous TV person,

but somehow still slums it for us and does podcasts. It's nice of him. He's like a real dude now. Clippers, quickly. Yes, I can't wait. What the hell? They paid Blake five years, $175, which is just a Hail Mary. I say this as a Clippers season ticket holder who was having conversations with Tolan, who I shared tickets with, and we're like, we're screwed.

If they decide to blow it up, we've already paid for our tickets. This is going to be a disaster. They go the other way. They overpay Blake, make him the face of the franchise. We have no idea if he can play five years. That's 410 games. What would you say the over-under is? 260? Yeah. 410. What would you say the over under is? 260?

Yeah. 410? Yeah. What would you give me? 265 you go over under. I would go over. You'd go over 265. I kind of like the idea of this team running through blank.

I can't wait to watch it. Forget that because I agree with you on that. I'm just saying from a durability standpoint, you're betting your life and Phoebe's life. I'd probably go under. 265. You have to bet your life and Phoebe's life. Yeah, I'm not going to go over a guy who has had multiple leg injuries. And then Gallinari for three years, 65.

I'm going to say a possible 246 games. I can't believe they got the small forward they've needed for five years the week after Chris Paul leaves. 175 over under? 146 games. I can't believe they got the small forward they've needed for five years. The week after Chris Paul leaves. 175 over under. Oh man, that's bullish. He just keeps pulling his knee out, right? I'm going to say 160.

He has like a lot of those, like he has the ACL and then he'll have like all the other things that happen because of the ACL, right? There's a sneaky case to be made that the Clippers are going to be terrible next year. I can't wait to watch them. I think they're going to be. It's because it's either going to be. There's a sneaky case to be made that the Clippers are going to be terrible next year. I can't wait to watch them. Because it's either going to be a complete meltdown or it's going to be really fun. Because Point Blake is something I'm really excited for. The whole ringer is on. Jarks wrote the piece a week ago.

KOC's been on that for a while. I've been on that. You've been on it. We want to see an offense run through Blake. We love when it happens. We love him as point forward. The problem is he's not going to play until December at the earliest. He has a broken plate in his foot.

So when they say, you know, NBA injury lying would be a fun video for us. He's back in December. It's four to six weeks and it's always eight. It's back in December. It's four to six weeks and it's always eight. It's back in December. That means February. You should be careful here because Brad Stevens being like, he looks good. Oh, Isaiah. I'm not a doctor, but he looks good. Very careful. I'm being very careful.

If he misses the first two months of the season and they... Here's the thing with the Clippers. You can look at all those names, but I like that guy, I like that guy, I like that guy. There's no creator. There's no facilitator.

Yeah. Patrick Beverly is not running the offense. Austin Rivers ain't running the offense. He's probably the most shoot first guard. I, he probably averaged like an assistant game. And then who's the other guard they have? Did they sign anybody else yet?

I don't think so. They're, that's why they're looking at Rose. Like Derrick Rose. Yeah. And then all of their perimeter guys are all like, I need the ball. DeAndre, obviously.

So it's like, if Blake's out for two months, I don't even know who runs our offense. It's not going to be Patrick Beverly. You think they'll make the playoffs? And then you have a lazy coach. I love that they, like, this is just, he's still acquiring 2010 guys. Like, when was Gallo last great?

When was it? Gallo was great on like the 2013 or 14. No, Gallo last great? Gallo was great on the 2013 or 14-nugget season. I bet it was Monterey because he was on the Celtics radar. His last two months were good. Last season, he was healthy. He looked at Gallo. He was 18 a game. He plays with fire. We all like him

when he's on the court. The rooster, man. I love Gallo. Do you honestly think you played DeAndre, Blake and Gallo together at crunch time though no no not at all

this is not a well put together team but it's gonna be really fun to watch the Bill Simmons theory which has been proven again and again is your four highest paid guys if you can't play

all four of them together against the team you need to beat you're in trouble yeah now Cleveland got out of that two years ago because they could play the four guys together right last year they couldn't they had to pick between Love and to beat, you're in trouble. Now, Cleveland got out of that two years ago because they could play the four guys together.

Last year, they couldn't. They had to pick between Love and Thompson, so now you're screwed because you're spending 80% of your salary cap on these four guys and you can only play three. I don't see how DeAndre Blake and... My gut is if they think Blake's healthy, they're going to flip DeAndre for something.

Yeah, that has to be. I think that's important. It remains to be seen whose team is this. Is this Doc's or Jerry's? There's going to flip DeAndre for something. Yeah, that has to be. I mean, there's also, it remains to be seen whose team is this. Is this Doc's or Jerry's? There's going to be a team, and this usually happens in football, but basketball, we don't see it as often. There's going to be a team in the West

that we think is a playoff team that's going to be awful. And we're like, wow. Okay, so who's it going to be? They're on pace for 25 minutes. I think the Clippers are the number one choice. I'm not predicting them, but I'm saying between them,

Minnesota, Oklahoma City, Portland, one of these teams that were... You don't think there's a little... I think that they're probably just too good for this to happen, but you don't think that there's a little bit of a chance that it's going to take a really long time for Houston to get this together?

Harden's too good. D'Antoni is a little bit like that two, three year and then guys are just like, what are you doing? I like the P.J. Tucker signing. Yeah, I know. It sucks that they're just so good. They have pieces. I keep forgetting that they've signed three other guys that are

just really good. They brought Nene back. They just have seven really good basketball players. It's going to be hard for them to stink. He's also just really good at finding scrappy guys. He'll find some second-rounder. I think a Clippers team that's built around Blake, who we have no idea when he's coming

back, is the all-time red flag. Especially with Denver with Millsap. Denver's got a good team, man. Jokic, Millsap, and Harris. Let's talk about them yeah if Moutier could just hit the side of a barn like it would

they would be good so what do we think their crunch time team is? so they have like Chandler and all those guys are still like all the Gary Harris right Jokic Millsap

I don't even know if Barton's crunch time alright so let's go Gary Harris, Jokic, Millsap but like Samir Nelson played a lot of minutes for them last year right so who is their... Their crunch time point guard is going to have to be Jamal Murray, who's not a point guard. Right. They're going to have to run the offense through him and Harris and...

The thing is, if you've got somebody who can pass like Jokic, do you need a pure point guard? You don't. You don't. You just need somebody... You just need somebody to bring the ball up the floor and hand it to him in the high post. You need somebody who can handle the fast break, though. That's the thing. People like, yeah, you can run the half court through Jokic.

Right. You need somebody to push it. Moutier is actually pretty fun in the transition. He just can't shoot. Moutier is like 15. Is Moutier older than our interns? Does Moutier like Bowie? Is he older than Kyle?

He's probably not, right? I don't think so, no. The thing I love about Millsap for Denver, and it was just the all-time under the radar, like nobody has an opinion on Paul Millsap. He's been the most boring star in the league for 10 years. But like when they had that 60-win team, the ball movement,

he's such a smart offensive player and he can do, he's just malleable. And now you put him with Jokic. I think that's a really nice mix. I think that's going to work. Yes, I agree. And I think Murray's going to have a big season next year. I think Harris is like becoming a really good two-way player.

I think they're going to be good. Let's go Denver, Minnesota. Denver, Minnesota, the Clippers, and... Portland? No, because I think Portland's lower than all those teams. Yeah, but Portland's always going to be in that zone. Right. Okay.

Denver, Minnesota, OKC, Clippers. And New Orleans? And Portland. And then New Orleans I'm out on. Okay. Which one of those teams could be the surprise 50 winner? 50 win team? OKC.

OKC you're going. OKC's going to kick ass next year. OK. That's the surprise 51 year is that one. Oklahoma City has a really, really good starting lineup. I have some

concerns. Do you want to know them? Sure. Yeah, of course. But the whole thing about OKC is it's either going to be incredible success or they're going to see that it's not working. Russell hasn't signed his deal and they're going to try and get what they can for George. We had a really good first year at the ringer, especially the last two months. We had like our best traffic months. Thanks to everybody who supported the site. It was just really awesome.

I feel like this involves me getting traded for draft picks. We had a nice thing going and you were kind of the shepherding the big picture coverage on the NBA side. Much like Russ. Russ was shepherding the offense. Fantasy just broke a pencil in his hand. Well, Fantasy. So Fantasy's Sam Presti.

Oh God. Now he definitely broke three pencils. All right. So let's say you and Fantasy together are Russ. Okay. This is my favorite conversation I've ever had 30 shots a game you're just this is you're the offense run everything now all of a sudden paul george the ideas nba idea paul george shows up okay and we just have to shoehorn him in and you guys like we have a good thing going i'm used to shooting 30 times

a game i get to take every shot at the end now this guy's in every meeting now gotta work him in look wait oh this guy has an idea for a theme week i don't know i like shooting 30 shots a game i worry about a little bit of a flip side to that russ just spent the first five six years of his career or whatever it was with durant where it was essentially everybody knew durant was the best player on the floor. Every night people are like, I didn't know that. Yeah. But I think I don't think George is going to come in and be like, hey, I need to get 30 shots a game.

I think George is going to be a great off the ball player, an incredible defender. I think George likes to get the ball in the last two minutes, though. I think I think he's one of those, you know, he likes the hero ball YouTube clips. Yeah, so that's going to be, hopefully there will be enough You watched OKC next year. Everyone had to stand around and watch Russ on every play. That's because he was the only good player they had last year. My question is

did he develop too many bad habits last year to now be like, oh, I got to worry about Paul. I think he'll be fine. I think if you were going to look for one shocker levelized 50 win team, I think it would be the Thunder. I don't know if going to look for one shocker levelized 50-win team, I think it would be the Thunder. I don't know if it would be a surprise. You were asking the surprise.

So what would you say? Denver's the 50-win team? I don't think it's going to be the Clippers. My two picks would be OKC or Denver. I think I have a chance to hop it. I also think maybe because of that conference, it's going to be really tough to even compete it. To go 50-32 in the West might be too hard.

I was just going to ask you about this. So one of the weirder things that happened yesterday morning was the Kings rush on veterans. I've never been a George Hill guy. I just hate paying somebody $20 million a year who's not an all-star. It's one of my rules. Do you think that's good or bad for De'Aaron Fox that he's there? I think he can play off the ball.

I don't think he can play two guard. I think it's fine. I would just rather have Malik Monk. I agree. If I'm going to pay George Hill $20 million a year to play these combo guard minutes, can I just have Malik Monk? Instead of trading down to 15 to 20?

So what do you think their over-under for wins would be next year? It's still a bad organization with a lot of weird pieces that haven't played together. You know? I kind of like them. I kind of like what they have. Fox is going to be super rough.

Don't forget how raw Fox is going to be next year. I'm as big of a Fox fan as there is. He's not going to come in right away and be good. If they were in the Eastern Conference, I'd think that they... Remember John Wall that first year? He was just playing at 190 miles an hour. Yes. And he just... That couldn't be good. If they were in the Eastern Conference, I think that they... Remember John Wall that first year?

He was just playing at 190 miles an hour and he just... That couldn't be Fox. Fox is going to be like... Who else do they have? Let's go through it. They have Fox, Scal, Willie Cauley, Buddy. They have... If Buddy could go up a level,

that would help. They need something to go to, guy. And Justin Jackson, who I think hurt his foot. No, that was Justin. I'm not counting any of those guys. They feel like the third worst team in the West to me. And then they have Zach

and they have Zeebo and George Hill. Getting Zeebo about three years too late. Yes. George Hill, I'm not sure he could stay in the court. Zeebo reunited with Jaeger. I like that one. Yeah.

Maybe a little Tony Allen next for them? Is he free agent? Oh, God. Grit and grind West. The grit and grind retirement home. So the small picture. Oh, did you like what Toronto did? Because I guess they had to.

They're locked into a three seed. I think I agree with Kevin that they got everybody to come back. They lose Pat-Pat. Norman Powell played really well. Hopefully, if you're a Raptors fan, he gets better. And then I just think that they're almost in the same situation Norman Powell played really well. Hopefully, if you're a Raptors fan, he gets better. The backup just gets the pass. And then I just think that they're the same. They're almost in the same situation as,

not quite as Oklahoma City, but they have Masai, and assuming he doesn't go become the head of the Knicks, I just don't think that any of those guys there are, that doesn't mean that's going to be the team in 2018. They could trade guys. Are they the three seed next year? I think Washington's going to be better than them.

Okay. I would go Washington three seed, Milwaukee four seed, Toronto five seed. You think Toronto, but Toronto was incredible last season on offense. I just feel like Giannis goes one more level up. I don't love the Milwaukee vibes. Here's the thing. If you're making a big picture bet on Giannis as a future MVP, this should be the season that he jumps.

This should be his 48 win, young MVP candidacy season. But you have to just be like, I believe in this guy. I think he's going to be the MVP someday. The natural checkmark that he's about to hit in his career should be this season where he takes a team that's not that great and pulls them up. Right.

That's the case for them from four. Yeah, he's 25-9-9 tonight. He really went. He took a jump last season, i'm if i'm remembering this correctly i can't i'd have to look at it but i feel like he emerged even more once jabari went down yeah as did brogdon i think too a little bit i didn't like brogdon in the playoffs now he's a rookie so you can't judge it too much but i thought he got a little exposed in the play it's almost like you don't want to lean on him too much. He's an overqualified third guard,

but if he's actually running the offense. They need Thon to be good next year. And they need Jabari to figure it out. Okay. Can Philly be a six seed? I mean. You like the red at Amir Johnson most? You know Amir Johnson's cooked, right?

Yeah, of course. I like them for, they haven't had a consistent veteran presence there in a really long time. And at all. You know what I mean? So I think that JJ is great for 23. I'm really interested to see what happens to him because I didn't like the season he had last year.

And I thought he was a defensive liability. And he did not jack up enough threes. Luckily he's in the Eastern Conference now. Well, that's the thing. I think they used him poorly. He's got to guard Alfred Payton. Right. Well, I think they used him poorly. He's got to guard Alfred Payton. Like, what's he? Right.

Well, I think they used him poorly. And I think the vibe on that team was really weird. And I think it affected him. I'm interested to see him on a team where they're like, JJ, you're shooting eight threes a game. Yeah. We're running you around screens. Shoot the ball.

And he's got two good passers. If you don't shoot eight threes tonight, we're fining you. I like that team a lot. I'm cautiously optimistic. I would love to get to the bottom half of the playoffs and have him be playing. I don't want to have the Eastern Conference, Western Conference thing because that conversation is annoying.

So you think that there's always going to be this pendulum that swings back? You don't think it would be? I think there's smarter GMs in the West right now and smarter owners. I feel like it's been a while we've been talking about this Western conference. What about when it was Miami and Boston and

the Knicks and the Bulls? There was a while where all of a sudden the East looked more loaded. I think it's mostly that. Last question. The Sixers fans. I'm a little worried about you guys from a karma standpoint okay

thanks for your concern don't you worry about yourself for karma you guys have you guys have been sitting in the catbird seat for a long time

no okay I don't I don't as long as LeBron's in the league I don't ever feel like we're gonna win

the title until he's out of the conference. So you feel like we're just too, a little too celebratory. I think it's fun. I think it's fun, but I also think like you haven't won the process yet. The process hasn't won. Nobody's won the process. It's like Brian actually, Colangelo actually fulfilled what you want to have as many great potential players at once and hope that one of them hits. I don't think Kinky trades up for Fultz.

Oh, I disagree completely. I think Kinky stays where he is and loves having that extra pick. Nah. Come on. Let's get it going. The actual process is collect assets. Not forever. How do we know?

He never, the architect of the process never told us what the, what the outcome was supposed to be. I'm, I'm very happy with what they're doing. And I'm not, I'm not, I don't think that, I think it's wrong to assume that just because people are excited that they got faults and think that the team is going to be really good, that that means somehow they're like, we've won the sort of off-season title. Well, I mean, they did some social media stuff that was aggressive.

What, the Retweet Armageddon? Yeah. Retweet Armageddon was a little aggressive. That was really fun. Okay. Is it fun or is there an edge to it? There's no edge to it. It's just that there's five years of people being like,

what a bunch of shitheads in Philadelphia. They're just lose, like losing on purpose. And now we have two of the last number one draft picks, the best draft and possibly the, the best draft pick. The, the Embiid pick would have been number one if he had been healthy.

You know what I mean? Like we have like all of this collection of talents. I think people are saying this, this idea. He threw away four years of basketball though, to get there. I know, but I feel,

nobody cares. I don't feel a day older. Okay. And the Embiid thing, he's played 31 games in three years. That's not a concern. I'd rather... Wouldn't you rather have... I'm just doing...

I'm devil's advocating all of this. Embiid as, like, the guy who flew too close to the sun, I would rather have him every day than Jabari. So even that four-week run when Embiid, we all lost our minds. Yeah. That made it worth it. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing, is thing is that like I think that you gotta

have fun with this stuff because otherwise you do get too caught up in the titles or tanking thing so and I know that the Sixers are just as guilty of that and the Sixers fans are just as guilty of that but I love like give me give me more of that give me more of like small victories it's okay I will say just selfishly somebody loves watching basketball

especially on random nights at, you know, nine o'clock on a Tuesday night, I guess it would be six o'clock here. The Sixers have more players that I enjoy than just about any other roster. I like Sarich. If you go back to the draft, like I fucking love Sarich.

I even, I made some joke on you during the draft about when they took him, I made some joke on the draft about when they took him. I made some joke on the telecast about I fell in love with him at 3.30 in the morning on YouTube 10 days ago. I just like him. I think he's a good basketball player. Embiid is a delight. Yes. Fultz is going to be so much fun to watch.

Rocco is awesome. Is that what we're calling him now? Rocco? Roc and Rocco. Bobby Covington. Yeah. And then Ben Simmons is almost like... Ben Simmons is my favorite kind of basketball player.

Ben Simmons is the guy who sees the past that no one else can see. There's like five guys in the league like that. It's why Jason Kidd was always amazing to watch. And now this is somebody who I've been rooting against. My son owns this t-shirt. I want him to succeed. He has the same name as my son. I love Ben Simmons. I've made jokes

about him for three years. All we have of him so far is this really dispiriting LSU season. And they didn't play at all last year. And we have no idea if he can shoot. I'm not positive what position he is. He's a small forward who's going to run the point. He is the guy He's going to be absolutely

electric in transition. To me, the fear is like he's the Gretchen Maul Vanity Fair cover. Here's the next Starlet. Here's the next Starlet. It's like, wait, is that Gretchen Maul? And then Ben Simmons is going to be on Boardwalk Empire 15 years later. You're like, I can't believe this. We thought he was the next guy.

Are we sure? I just hope. He's the one I'm worried about the most. I mean, obviously, Embiid staying on the court is a problem. Yeah. But Ben Simmons, like, I like him. I see it. I see the potential of it.

But man, if you're asking him to be a point forward, he's never played an NBA game. The offense is going to run through him. I don't know. I have a lot of question marks about that. You're acting like these guys do, everybody does three years at Michigan State and passes some tests to get into the NBA. Like, he'll good he'll be good i hope all these guys were like he's easily

the number one pick they can't all be wrong that's the same thing with faults is like that's how i felt right up until the faults trade happened everybody was like faults is just he's number one he's number one all this josh jackson crap is just bj armstrong or whoever making a lot of noise and then it was like as soon as faults got then it was like, as soon as Fultz got here, it was like, wow, Fultz has bad body language. Fultz has never played a really competitive game. Didn't go to the tournament. All the Celtics were like, Fultz is the best.

All the Celtics people. Fultz is the best guy. Yeah. They bring him in for two days. They trade down a week later. Okay. I still don't understand what happened. I was ready.

I watched all the YouTube clips. I had the jersey in the head. I was ready. I was ready for the Fultz era. It's just weird. I had the jersey in the head. I was ready. I was ready for the false era. It's just weird. It's nice of you to say that. The Sixers have a collection of guys that you want to watch 82 times a year. I even like Rashawn Holmes.

Yeah. You probably have seven guys that I genuinely like. Yeah, McConnell's fun. You have eight guys I like. Redick. Yeah. Fun team. It'll be good.

Amir Johnson's vertical. The Sixers fans, let us root with you. Don't, don't turn it into a you against us. There's no us. There's no us. All of us want to watch a good basketball team. There's clear question marks and I hope they pan out for you.

I appreciate that. All right. All right. Uh, do you have a watch podcast this week? Yeah. Uh, yeah.

Well, we have the watch this week is? Yeah. What do you got? Well, we have, the watch this week is going to probably be about Baby Driver for the most part. I still have not seen it. Do I have to like go out of my way to see it over the next three days? Yeah, you'd enjoy it.

You'd enjoy it. It's fun. It has like some like point break speed vibes, like 90s action thriller kind of vibes. Ham's really good in it. Jamie Foxx. It made me sad that when Sam Donsky died in that tragic house fire,

that it just would have been a great week for him. It would have. So the thing about Baby Driver that's been intense is that it is a movie that has been out for five days and it's already gone through the life cycle of an Oscar movie in terms of it being like a masterpiece or a complete piece of shit. So I'm not even sure.

The internet's the worst. But it's actually like, I don't even know what I think of Baby Driver anymore. I'm that susceptible to all these swings. It's the Ben Simmons of movies. Yeah. You don't know. There's so many people in your head at this point. I know.

The internet's the worst. Doesn't it bother you that our lives revolve around putting up an internet site when the internet's also the worst? Then there's moments like the way people started talking about Sham Sarania on Twitter over the weekend, where it was just guys changing their Twitter names to Sham's Goat. And just every time any NBA news happened, it was just 700 memes of shams dunking on woj that's it that makes it i'm glad you brought that up because i meant to mention that they paid all this money for woj they lay off all these people and he's supposed to get every scoop

and then shams his protege got half the scoops yeah he's like we're espn like i thought we're getting all the scoops we just paid for all the scoops why aren't we getting all the scoops yeah he's like they've already sped they're like i thought we're getting all the scoops we just paid for all the scoops why aren't we getting all the scoops i would have just i would have paid prop eight eight hundred dollars to get a live stream of shams and like what's shams day like you know what i mean when shams is like on a saturday or on sunday when or whatever and he's just got nine phones he's got 35 like people on on hold would you be on a scale one to ten how shocked would you be if it turned out Shams was an automated program? And they pick some photo and he doesn't exist. He's Agent Smith.

He's Woj created some scoop program. Yeah. But yeah, all the data and Yahoo owns. Nothing would surprise me anymore. Yeah. All right. Thanks so much to SimpliSafe. Getting a good night's sleep easier said than done,

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That is SimpliSafe with two I's. Also, thanks to Hotel Tonight, the app that helps you find amazing deals at the last minute for hotels up to seven days in advance. Perfect for a spontaneous getaway, indulging in a little staycation. Download the Hotel Tonight app. Chris Ryan, Hotel Tonight helped you guys.

Loved it. Helped you big time with Vegas. Vegas, baby Vegas. Vegas. Hey man, if you want to go to Summer League last minute, go to Hotel Tonight. They have all the deals there. Vegas, baby Vegas. Vegas. Hey, man, if you want to go to Summer League last minute, go to Hotel Tonight. They have all the deals there.

Thanks so much to Miller Lite. Thanks so much to SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor. Thanks so much to Nephew Kyle. Go listen to some Bowie Kyle. Start with Hunky Dory and make your way through it. Yeah. That's it. We're coming back on Friday with one more more bs but did anything happen in basketball

by the way since we're doing this no breaking right nobody got traded there's been no updates to our nba nothing nobody did anything all right good all right we are wrapping this up at 10 53 uh west coast time so if anything happened don't blame us thanks for listening talk to you on friday on the BS podcast.