The Bill Simmons Podcast - Greta Gerwig and Saoirse Ronan of 'Lady Bird,’ Plus Francesa Fridays (Ep. 316)

Episode Date: January 19, 2018

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by ‘Lady Bird’ writer-director Greta Gerwig and star Saoirse Ronan to discuss the reception of the film (02:00), the enjoyment of making a coming-of-age story (10:00), and the timing of its release in today’s current climate (34:00). Then, Mike Francesa joins Bill to discuss the unbelievable end to the Vikings-Saints game (51:30), Tom Brady's injured hand (53:30), the most shocking in-game playoff football moments (59:00), their predictions (01:06:45), and the best possible story line for the Super Bowl (01:18:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I might have to test drive this one. You can test drive the all-new BMW X3 at your local BMW center today. BMW only makes one thing, the ultimate driving machine. Don't forget about my column that went up today, a mailbag column on theringer.com that hits a whole bunch of stuff, including the most shocking in-game NFL playoff moments, as well as a lot of freaking out about Tom Brady. And you're about to get more of that later in the podcast. We're calling Mike Francesa. It's Francesa Fridays.

But before we do that, we have the acclaimed director of Lady Bird, Greta Gerwig, with the acclaimed star of Lady Bird, who just won a Golden Globe, Saoirse Ronan. They're here together. But first, Pearl Jam. Greta Gerwig, Saoirse Ronan here from my favorite movie of 2017, Lady Bird. So when did you know this was going to kind of snowball into something major? Well, I don't think I knew that it was sort of going to go in the direction that it's gone

until like late November, early December because we had the movie had been in festivals and that was a hugely exciting thing. And tell your ride in Toronto and New York festival. And then it opened and it was, it was great. It was like people were going, but it was like limited openings and, you know, New York and LA and then San Francisco, Chicago. Like it was, it was, and it wasn't clear to me. Yeah.

It was, it was around then when it was like oh people are really going and really responding and it's not just i mean i always hoped that it was a movie that would connect to people but you just never know and i wanted it to be something that um a lot of people would see and it would then it would connect to where they're from and their hometown and their families and and but you just never know until you're, you're actually in it. So, um. We should mention you're sick and Saoirse threw up at Disney all Monday. You're not going to throw up during that.

We've never had anyone throw up on a podcast. Well, this could be our chance. Disney chicken? What was it? No, it was listen I don't want to give Disney a bad rap because I've also had

the best day of my life Monday was not the best day of my life did you get the pass where you get to skip the lines yeah is that like a celebrity pass

I didn't have that before someone else got it for us you can just buy it you can just buy it I think you can just buy the pass where you like skip the line

and can go to the front line we used to be able to cut past everything and go like through the back door and just go straight onto the ride. And you can't do that anymore. Are you getting recognized now? Or did that already happen for you? I didn't get recognized that much. I was with someone else who's in a TV show and he got recognized quite a bit. But there were actually a bunch of girls who came up to me after uh the ride soaring um oh

does this mean i'll get free disney tickets do you think if i talk about let's hope i think you should soaring the wonderful ride at california adventure park and um these girls came up to me and they had seen ladybird i loved it so much. So when did you know? You've been in a lot of good movies. When did I know? When did you know this was going to blow up? Well, because I think you can know that like a film is good and you never know whether it's going to gather steam or what.

Because I think it is so much down to like the time it comes out and the zeitgeist at the time and like what people need and want from movies and so it really did come out at exactly the right time I mean I think like I was doing a film last summer and autumn while Greta was doing all of the earlier press and taking the film to festivals and things like that. So I couldn't go to any of those earlier events. But I think, you know, the response that we got at Telluride when I heard about that. So you knew. I think I knew then it was going to, people were going to see it.

Yeah. And then it just sort of grew from there. But I mean, I don't think we ever expected that, like, the New York Times would say it's a perfect film and think, you know, nobody would expect that for their movie because it just seems impossible. So it didn't happen. Did you write it with her in mind

or did you write it and then try to find somebody like her? She was at us the other day. I know. No, I didn't. I know. Weird. But I couldn't have known that she would do it because I was writing this alone. You know, when you're writing something, you're just by yourself. It's just you and the blank page and you're trying to figure out what it is that you're saying.

And I didn't know that I would show it to anyone let alone that I would get someone like Saoirse Ronan to be in it actually I was thinking when you said the girls recognized you I think you're so transformed in the role that I wonder because you don't look like like when I know I know her now as a person and I knew her as a person before

and who she became as a role it really is a transformation kind of from the inside out. She just seems like a different person when she's playing Lady Bird. And even though I didn't write her character with her in mind, when I first heard her read the lines, I knew right away. I knew without a shadow of a doubt. It was one of the most certain things I've ever experienced.

Was it fun to cast people? It must have been, right? Yeah, it was the most fun. And it was also, I mean, it's the most fun. It's also, I love so many actors that, I mean, part of the reason I want to make a lot of films is I want to work with so many different actors. So, you know, but I got as many as I possibly could

who I love and think are great into this movie. But I. What about the Sacramento accent? Is there a Sacramento accent? Yeah. What is it? It's basically what she did in the movie. It's what she did in the movie.

It's my accent. It's we worked with a vocal coach and accent coach. Is it like a tiny bit Valley girl kind of thing? Or what is it? It's slower. It's very slow and lazy and kind of laid back. And run together. Can you do it like right away?

When you click. Can you do it like on command? I don't, what do you, I don't know. What do you want me to say? Do your Sacramento. Ooh.

I mean, it's a Sacramento accent all of a sudden. No, here's the thing about a Sacramento accent is that like I've done a sort of general American accent, which is just American, just like sort of generally has the sound of an American person. But this was the first time I had to do that with like specific sounds. So I think one of the words that I found really, really hard to get was perfect. Oh yeah.

And the way Greta says it, and you know, there's a band called War Paint and they're from, they're from LA, I think, but they, they say that sound, I think in one of their songs.

And I was like, that's the way Greta says it too. They say it the same way. And it's like, perfect, perfect, perfect. It sounds so says it too they say it the same way and it's like perfect perfect it sounds so strange to me to say it that way it was just such a slight difference between

I'd say perfect with an eh sound and it was like it's an eh sound perfect and also I mean little things like she so she worked with Kate Wilson who's this great accent vocal coach who I'd worked with on a play and she'd worked with on a play because I wanted to be able to sort of set it. And so, I mean, a lot of it is like running words together.

Not a lot of variation of like melody. There's not a lot of melody and running. Yeah. Running things together like and one of my most proud things about them or i just in the accent of the performances she says sacramento don't people don't say sacramento they say sacramento yeah and it's almost like a d yeah yeah sacramento and she said it just right and it makes me so happy when she says it because i think there's a there's a lack of precision with the way i think it's a northern california thing do you did you have to physically

think of yourself as a 17 year old because 17 year old girls act a little bit differently physically than like a 23 year old not necessarily a 17 17 year old, but I think I just physically had to specifically think of myself as Lady Bird because I think Lady Bird, like even though we had the Sacramento accent in place, she needed to sound different

to everyone else and she needed to sort of physically behave in a different way and almost be a little bit erratic physically, I think. A little irrational confidence. Yeah, yes, exactly. That's a good way and almost be a little bit erratic physically I think that that's a little irrational confidence yeah yes exactly that's a good way of putting it um and I think there

there were certain parts of her that just needed to be noticeably different to everyone else and that's why people are drawn to her because there's such an affection that her friends and her family and the boys she goes out with and her teachers there's an affection they have for her and I think um that comes from her just being a little off center um and so even with the voice and the way she walked and the way the sort of gesture she used you know I kind of wanted them to be quite distinctive to her and I always find anyway that that helps when when I've been doing it since Atonement um the director of that wanted me to develop a walk and so ever since then I've liked coming up with like a specific walk yeah yeah it's just a good way to i think it's

like the voice that says an awful lot about where the character is going how much confidence they have in themselves you know what they want people to say when they walk into a room you know i took my daughter who's 12 and a half we were at a soccer tournament in San Diego. And I was told by multiple people I trust, like, take your daughter. And I'm, I don't know. It was right on the fringe. It was a great decision. She's already seen it twice because we got the screener. It's kind of like one of her movies, which I think I've heard you say.

It's like for, I think not just that age range, but then older too. It was kind of like people feel like this is my movie. They made this for me, which is a really hard thing to do. And it's kind of a power in its own way. Because people try to do that. Most of the times it doesn't work. So you must be sensing that these last couple months. Yeah, it means a lot to me.

I mean, I think that I know what it feels like to sit in a movie theater and feel like, how did they know? How do they know? And I'm not alone. And how is this possible? And I felt it about movies that have nothing specifically to do with my life um i remember feeling that when i was sitting in the movie theater and i watched um the movie the on wong kar wai movie in the mood for love and the way that they're this is these neighbors who are both married and they have another relationship and just like the build-up of something that never happens and i was like and it takes place in hong kong in the 1960s um or like late 50s early 60s and i was like, and it takes place in Hong Kong in the 1960s or like late 50s, early 60s.

And I was like, that's it. And I don't know why that's it. But how does he know? And I think that movies in that way have this ability to sort of reach through the screen and get you in your heart. And it means a lot to me, particularly, not just women, though. I mean, I've had a lot of men tell me, oh, that's it. But I mean, yeah, for me though, I think very personally, young teenage girls, teenage girls feeling seen is a big thing for me because I think

I was always looking for that. I was always looking for the things that were going to reflect something that felt true to me. There is a losing virginity scene. Yes. That I did almost knock my popcorn over, dive in to cover eyeballs of my 12-month-old daughter. But it wasn't that bad. It's not that bad. There was four seconds where I'm like, oh, God, this is going badly. It's very quick.

And then it's fine. And I think that's the whole point, right? It's so quick, it's almost like it didn't happen. Right. And I also felt like... Maybe a good lesson for my daughter. I mean, listen, I could change my mind, but I also like, really in terms of like, movies

like, about teenagers, this is pretty tame. And I don't really have any interest in like something gritty like that like i don't i i kind of want the movie to protect both the actors and the characters and i think um yeah i just i sort of and in my mind i mean this and maybe i'm kind of like an old woman but i was like my friend my friend's grandmother is going to watch this and I just need to make sure she's okay. What was your, what was your influential movie, Saoirse?

What was my one? Do you have one? Cause I mean, you've been an actor almost your whole life, but did you have that one movie that pulled, kind of pulled you out of the screen and became your movie? When I was younger? Yeah. At any age. Yeah.

When I was younger, I realized that I watched a lot of movies that were about female friendships they were the things that I was drawn to so things like um I mean I watched a lot of like old old movies as well with with my mom and dad but the film I used to do this thing I think a lot of kids do I don't know if your daughter was the same where you would watch the same movie every single night like as you'd fall asleep so I went through a stage where Dirty Dancing

was the movie for me that I don't know why I was allowed to watch it when I was a child but I used to watch that a lot Sister Act

I used to watch an awful lot when I got older Bridesmaids and things like that it was always it always seemed to be about women sort of like helping each other.

Girls Trip's like that too. Yeah, Girls Trip was like that too. I love that movie. And I only realised that recently. And obviously there's films that I've watched, like once off films like, you know, Rebel Without a Cause or something, which I felt totally seen in and loved.

But the films that I watched religiously were usually films about friendship, I think. What about Clueless? Was that one for you? Clueless is the other one I used to watch all the time. You know what's one now? It's the version for that of the next generation is Mean Girls. Mean Girls.

My daughter likes that for her and her friends over and over again. Well, Mean Girls actually came Girls. I love Mean Girls. My daughter, like, that's for her and her friends over and over again. Well, Mean Girls actually came out when I was in college. And I remember it was written by Tina Fey. Yeah. And I, you know, I was just getting a sense of, I was writing stuff. I kind of, I loved performing, but I thought maybe what I, I was just starting to come to see the idea of like i could make my own stuff and i was just i just loved mean girls and i loved that she wrote it and you know

later again i was an adult but like with bridesmaids like you know the the annie momolo and kristen wigg wrote that together and and it was about that like those those movies were were big for me even though i wasn't specifically in the comedy world. I think I've always, those were the places where I felt people pushing against whatever standards there were. But yeah, I mean, I had tons of, I mean, my watching,

my like I watched it a hundred times was actually like pretty in pink. So that's my generation is the John Hughes. Yeah. Like Breakfast Club and all those. I mean, I very much wanted to make this movie where the core emotional relationships were more about definitely her and her mother, but also her and her friend

and not make it about whether or not she gets a guy. But at the same time, those movies weren't yeah they were still important and those movies meant a lot to me and i think not in small part because um she was. And she didn't look perfect. She seemed utterly herself. And that was something that was always just really appealing. And there's something really refreshing about watching Molly just, like, be miserable. Like, there's scenes where she's just a bit like she's just over it and it's nice to see a young girl on screen who's not sort of like all put together and all smiles and is sort of yeah you know easy on the eye in every way I mean like even emotionally I always think about that

scene in Broad City where the girls are walking down the street and you can't see it because you can just hear us but um where the guy walks past and he says why don't you girls smile and they like flip them the bird and smile at the same time and you know it's so and you get that in clueless as well and in all these great films where it's about real people yeahueless was... And all the highs and lows. Clueless was my number one. That's like one of the best... I still think that stands as like one of the best movies.

Yeah. I mean, it's not even a high school movie. It's just great. It's great. It's just great. And Cher Horowitz is a genuinely amazing creation. And her best friend Dion were both named after pop stars of the 70s

my mom was a total Betty isn't she a Betty she died during a routine liposuction I think yours is gonna have a rewatchable run on cable I hope so it's very quotable already oh it's 30 minutes in

I'll watch 20 minutes when I'm editing I said this to my editor I hope so. It's very quotable already. Oh, it's 30 minutes in. Oh, it's 20 minutes. I have a quality. Like when I'm editing, I said this to my editor, something clicks in for me. And I had this a little bit with movies that I've written that Noah Baumbach directed that we wrote together. Frances Ha and Mistress America. Something will click in at a certain point in the editing where I feel like I can sing along with the movie almost like it's a song yeah and it's some imperceptible thing that drops in for me and as soon as I feel like I can sing along with it yeah I I know it's close um but it's a weird thing it's like it so so people because people

say because you watch the movie hundreds and hundreds of times people say is it do you get you know tired of watching it or do you stop being able to see it and you do in a way and that's why it's so important to have people you trust watch it but at the same time you never lose the ability to just hear it almost rhythmically like a song and feel that come like feel that sort of writing. So it's like, I can listen to David, you know, Bowie Ziggy Stardust as many times as I want and know every piece of it.

But when it kicks in, you're like, it's still the song. Like I don't, do you know? It's, it's something. Thomas Anderson was here last month and was talking about, he hits a point when he's making a movie that he can't even see it anymore.

It's like this giant thing. Yeah. He's the only one who can see all the puzzles or the other pieces of the puzzle. Nobody can help him. Nope. They're past a certain point. His movies are longer than yours, too. So it's the same phenomenon.

But at some point, it's just like, I can't see this anymore. Yeah. You almost need like that little distance to come back from it. Yeah. It is. It's hard it is weird when you feel um like i mean not now i can sort of say it on the other side but like at each stage you know you're asking people to to come on this ride with you and to bring their art and what they do to it and to trust you yeah that you know that you have the whole movie in your head and that you can see i mean

this here i'm this needs to be shot this way and i don't know you know i mean with this movie i i mean i just had this utter certainty about the movie it wanted to be and how we were going to get there but there were different points when you know you're really the only one who knows that. And you kind of have to keep that sacred. But I have that moment with every stage of it. I have it when I'm writing because it'll feel like a big old mess. And then at a certain point it clicks in and it feels like I can, all of a sudden,

it's like because I know how it's built, I feel like I can all of a sudden, um, it's like, because I know how it's built. I feel like if I fix this over there, it's not like I have to read it through and realize I have to fix something else because of this change. I know instantly, it's like, I have a sense of the whole, the whole, the whole time. And it's that, that kind of getting the sense of the whole is part of being a director is like i know how i know how this is all functioning as a as almost like a a machine um were you surprised she wasn't in it no i wasn't because i i deliberately knew nothing about it and when i saw it i just assumed you're going to be in it and then you were never in it and i was like she's not in it. I don't have any desire to direct myself. I mean, I really admire anyone who's able to do it,

but I just think there's such a joy, and especially if you've gotten so used to being in front of the camera, to just go, you know what? I'm going to take a step back and watch someone else do it. So you weren't even going to put yourself on one scene as like the cashier? No. I have, I don't know. It's like two different parts of my brain.

Yeah, that makes sense. The acting part and the directing part. I mean, I just, I don't, and I do get such genuine pleasure watching the actors work. It would just undercut my enjoyment. I mean, selfishly, I enjoy watching them do it. Actually, they just, I've been asked to approve all this like, all this behind the scenes footage

that they shot. And so much of the footage, it's just me looking like I'm maniacally happy at the monitor, like looking at something or standing next to the camera and just grinning like an idiot because it's just, I love watching people kind of be brave and crazy and figure it out. It's, it's my favorite. It's like my favorite thing. So you,

you finished this movie and you're, I mean, how many movies are you making a year no you had a crazy year i had it was the craziest year that year i did a 20 week run of a play which was very intense and then ladybird and then another film in the uk straight afterwards so it's like ladybird's such a personal movie how do you go from you're inhabiting this character and it's this emotional experience, and then all of a sudden it's like, all right, here's my next job.

It was hard. It was hard. It wasn't hard to shift the crucible because I was ready. We had, you know, I think we had done that and we were all ready to move on to the next thing. And it was actually quite nice to go from something that was so dark um to something that had so much sort of joy and love in it so that was fantastic but it was you know tricky because there was like a week where we were still shooting ladybird and then i had to go and rehearse the next thing and I just realized someone said it to me recently that they're the

same they're they're monogamous when it comes to work and they can't think about anything else and I think I'm the same like some people are most people are really I think they have to be really really great at just kind of going from one thing to the next but I'm just really not good at it um so it was a good it was a good lesson in that way that I need like time in between jobs but um I think I only started to properly grieve for Lady Bird like once the next film was done and then I had like six months off and I remember it was like it was all I could think about was that job and you know going through the whole motions of missing everyone and missing her and then also thinking oh god could I have done better and shit maybe I should have done this scene this way and

you know you go through all of that but it was like a delayed it was a delayed reaction um what kind of career do you want to have? Who's your role model? I want to have a career where I can also have a life and I can also do other things and you know

I think the great thing about film is that you can really inhabit a character and learn the skills that they have which can can be great. So you'll get to sort of pick up all these skills on the way, which can give you a taste for, for doing something, whether it's learning a language or learning how to properly horse ride or, you know, something like that. But I think what the year before last taught me is that where I'm at right now if I can have like months and months and months to prepare for one job and put all my energy into that almost like you are

producing it in a way that's what I would want to do um because I I loved the mindset that I was in when I was a child and I think you can still have it when you're older as well where everything is just about that one film and you're not thinking about you know meetings or other jobs that you signed up to a year in advance or whatever but just putting all of your energy into one thing so if i can if i can do that i think i'll be happy is she the most normal former child actor ever oh yeah well that's that's down to five that's down to her parents and her mom i mean like her mom is like one of the best people i've ever met and like and also you didn't you weren't she was in movies but she wasn't like a movie star kid like Like she lived in Ireland. Right. She was not a Nickelodeon show.

No, it wasn't like it was it was like a thing she did, but it wasn't who she was. Right. And I think that that's I mean, I think to me, that's the thing. And like it never merged with her identity in a way that was going to like come back. I mean, and that's what you always hope for anyone is that like you take great pleasure and pride in what you do, but it's not the thing that gives you value as a person. I mean, I think whether you're a child actor or not, that's something that, you know, is always a sign of sanity when you're like, that's a part of what I do. That's what I do, but it's not who I am. And but yeah, she's she's also just I mean, your ears but yeah don't listen um no she's just

like i mean i knew it while we were making it but also like in retrospect i mean she's not only one of the most gifted actors she's she's utterly supportive of everyone not just other actors, but the crew. Like she's the crew's favorite person. She almost approaches it like a crew member. Like she's just down and totally, you know, the hardest working person. Like there's no airs. And she sets the tone for everyone because she was in every single scene

and she was working so hard and she was already coming off of this play and I think everybody just rose to her spirit that she had. I'm 25% Irish so I'm 25% super proud right now. Yeah, you should be. I'm super proud of you. I'm a quarter proud right now.

Your eyes are Irish. Your sparkly eyes. That's what it is. That's why your eyes are so lovely. I thought they came from the Italian side though. Italians don't havely eyes. That's what it is. That's why your eyes are so lovely. I thought they came from the Italian side, though. Italians don't have blue eyes. My grandpa had blue eyes. That's where the eyes came from. He was probably Irish, too, and you didn't realize.

Tell me about SNL. Oh, okay. Because every good actor loves hosting SNL more than anything on the planet. Yeah, but they're all so equally terrified to do it because you're you're well we both did it Greta came on and she did we co-hosted we co-hosted together and I did watch I was in the audience so when it happened it was incredible it was amazing I I it was it was a total dream come true for me like honestly out of anything that's ever happened, probably even like nominations and all that sort of stuff,

nothing has made my heart explode more than getting to host SNL. It was a total dream. And you even understood the magnitude? I did. I understood it. She's a comedy nerd more than anything else. Like, comedy is my favorite, favorite thing. And so I didn't grow up watching it only because it didn't air in Ireland, but I'd watch it when I was in the States.

And so there's like so many sketches that you can watch online and I'd watch like older episodes of SNL and things like that. And I just really I love comedians. I love comedians. And I watched a documentary recently which I think you told me about before I watched it called Dying Laughing oh yeah have you heard it on yeah and I can't I think it was uh Chris Rock who said that he sees stand-up comedians as the the modern day philosophers because they say all the things that nobody else has the guts to say right and um and so I just really admire them and what they do.

And I love the cast that they have right now. But again, this is the great thing about doing film or TV or something like that. Like the crews are wonderful. And like I loved working with all the comedians on it. But I equally loved working with like the stagehands, the guys who were doing the cue cards, the camera team, Lorne, the whole, the writers,

the producers, it's just a great team. It's a well-oiled machine. It's a well-oiled machine, and they work so hard. So it was incredible to do. Let's take a breath and talk about SimpliSafe Home Security. Our old friends have got some exciting news. SimpliSafe is a home security company I've worked with since they had only 10 employees.

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was like right when i was like oh this movie's working and then this and um And it was just, I mean, it was amazing to be there. To see Oprah. And then to see Oprah. Oprah's speech was unbelievable. Oprah's speech was, I mean, it was beautiful. And I was actually backstage because I was coming out to present, which my friends later told me. My girlfriends were like, like yo you looked real scared

when you're reading that teleprompter and they said they had they sent me a video of all of them being like get through it get through it it doesn't make sense but you're saying all the words and i was like teleprompters are terrifying anyway it was it was amazing and then I mean when Sush won I screamed so loud and then and then you know she got up there it was beautiful but then I sort of had this feeling of like we won our thing yeah like I kind of was like and that was amazing and she won her thing but in my mind I was, and that's it. Yeah. And then five minutes later. Five minutes later, I was like, wait, what? It was just, I mean, for whatever reason, you winning made me think like, what a great night.

It's over. Well, that's because, I mean, if Lady Bird wins, I think it's for the whole film. Yeah. Like, it's for you and it's for everyone. It's for everyone. I mean, it was just, it was also because everyone, especially with indies, you know, you put so much, you put so much into it

and everybody who works on it puts so much like, so much time and energy and heart and soul and that the film is rewarded. It's really for every single person who worked on it. Like I,

it made my heart explode for all of them. I was just so proud part of the narrative has become it's become such an important film because of just where we are and all the stuff that's happening right now but i still feel like you would have made this movie in any year right yeah it almost seems like you talked about being the zeitgeist yeah that was i think it was just obviously just kind of happened but you could have made this movie 10 years ago 10 years from now yeah i mean i've been i when i was writing it again like you know it's just how it worked out like when i i was writing it it just the way things fell

and then when i met sersha and we read the script and then she was you know she had this play to do and Brooklyn was opening and and so we basically had a year before we started shooting so just the way the timing worked out I mean it was it was all very fortuitous but it was not like I didn't plan it this way it just happened to work out this way but I feel um I just feel so I I mean, personally, just the idea that this will enable me to continue to make movies and to figure out how to not just make my own movies, but figure out how to make other people's movies and get into production. Did you feel like this was like,

because it's so hard for female directors, like this was your one chance? You know, to be totally honest yeah i i did i did feel like if you screw this up you're not getting another opportunity you know i've i talked this through with um a few people and i kind of had this tear i was like it's gotta be good otherwise we i can't i mean i don't, I didn't think it would be like this, but I was like, it's got to be good. Otherwise, I'm not going to get another crack at it.

Right. That's kind of crazy. But the thing that I actually did come to while I was going through it is I was like, I had a friend say to me, well, what happens if it's not good? And I said, well, it'll be a lot harder to make the next one and she said well then what are you gonna do then and i said well i'd just make the

next one for no money and she's like all right and then what happens and i was like hopefully people like it and she's like and what if they don't i was like well then i'll just make the next one like you kind of have to be like it's it, it's, it's like, you know, I had this feeling of like, this has got to work. And then I also had this feeling of, but if it doesn't, you have to be okay with fit. You have to be okay with both realities. And I just got to the point where I was like, I'd rather try and fail than never have tried at all.

And also I think at that point I was just so sure that I was ready to be a director. I was like, even if this is a complete belly flop I'll make the next one I'll scrounge up some amount of money I'll figure out how to do it really small like I just I just at that point was like I don't think anything's gonna

slow me down so it was both it was like I need this to work and also even if it doesn't I I'm going to keep going. What do you see happening with Hollywood this year? How do you see the next 12 months playing out? I think women are going to get a lot more meetings with studios than they did before. I think that's true.

Exactly. Everybody's like, where's the lady directors? Can we get more ladies in for the weekly meetings thanks i know yeah i think that's what's going to start to happen we're not going to see the difference in the work for another oh yeah couple years couple years at least you know because things are going to need to go into development women are going to obviously um be working hard to have something to go in with, which they do already. And I think they'll just be given more of a chance.

I think things that would have automatically gone to guys, like things where- They'll rethink that. They'll rethink it. They'll be like, well, wait, can we get, is there a woman who had a short film Sundance who maybe could take the helm like you know just movies that um and you know they don't tend to yeah and you know what it is as well it's you know it also needs to get to a point not where it's sort of like oh let's get a female director because she's a woman because you know we need to

have the token female director right they just need to open up the floodgates so that everyone has a chance to show what they can do. There's probably going to be more female producers. Yeah, I hope so. Who will be looking a little more outside the box for things. Well, there's friends of mine who have worked with other studios and they've gone to work with some of the newer distributors and they are high up and they're sort of like at the helm of it all.

And that's been great too. And that's only happened for them in the last couple of years. So I can see it shifting with people I know even now. I think for actors, giving actors a chance to direct a movie, and by actors I mean male or female. In the old days it was always the actor. And now it's like now I think people like you have a chance

this is the other thing is that I've found that actors especially actresses female actors have gotten to the point where they're so sick of having to wait

for the right role to come along that they're just starting up their own production companies they're getting producers together they know they're writing

their own material they're developing their own stuff they're using their own material. They're developing their own stuff. They're using their own contacts and they're making their own stuff. So there's a lot more actors that are becoming more hands on because I think people, men and women are getting to a point where they're sort of like, I don't not that it's always necessarily like this, but it's very easy to sort of feel like you're just a puppet. And people don't quite get you or they don't know where to put you or something. So I think that actors are starting to form more alliances now and make their own stuff too.

I think that's true. I was really worried. I mean, obviously I'm older than you guys, but I felt like things were moving toward TV the last few years and that movies were becoming less and less interesting. And I didn't know whether it was because we'd beaten too many of the ideas in the ground or whether TV was more fun to explore for eight episodes versus an hour and a half. And I feel like 2017, I thought was a great movie year.

I agree. And I actually like just going in and out of the world of a movie for an hour 40 more than committing to like this 11 episode TV show. I've swung the other way. Like Lady Bird, like being able to see that on a Saturday. I intentionally didn't know anything. I'm with my daughter. We go in.

I'm hoping it's good. And it was awesome. And we laughed and she was like, oh my God, let's, she was like, when is that again? Should we see it tomorrow? I'm like, no, we're giving it a couple. But it was, I still think there's a place. I still think movies are going to resonate more than tv well as great as tv is i think i mean i i i think i i mean it's like

a longer discussion in terms of like what i mean i think there's there's such great work being done on television and in all forms like like whether it's you know mini series or episodic television or the seven episode ones. It seems like that's going to be like the big little eyes. I thought it was great. Yeah. And also just that sort of busting the form open in terms of what it can be. And I do think what I will say is I think there have been, you know,

people in television, especially in like this HBO, Showtime, Netflix, Amazon spaces that took risks on creators who, you know, were outside of what we think of as a, you know, a typical creator. And because of that, it's been really like vibrant and exciting. I think for me, I, I, um, I love television and, but people always ask me, Oh, would you write television? Would you make a television show? And I totally would because I think it's amazing, but I think it's totally separate discipline.

It's a different muscle. It's a different muscle. And I think it's not that I can't develop that discipline, but I feel like I've spent, you know, over 10 years now working in movies and over 10 years trying to get my, wrap my head around this form and the way this form works and i i feel like i've got a sense of it and um like so like ladybird could have been a netflix series right it could have been eight episodes it wouldn't have been as

good well it wouldn't have strung it out and right made it happen but it would have it just wouldn't have been as good. Well, it wouldn't have. You could have strung it out and made it happen, but it just wouldn't have been the same, I don't think. Well, it's just not my form. It's almost like it's just not my form is this. So I think in terms of movies, I think in terms of closing a narrative arc. And one of my very favorite people who's a television writer and a good friend of mine, Liz Merriweather,

and she made New Girl and she's making a new show. We had worked on writing something together and our brains are quite different when we look at narrative issues. Right. She's thinking like... She's thinking of always how to leave something open yeah and i'm

always thinking of how to close it and it's just a different but it's not that i mean it's not that i could never get there it's just i think sometimes there's particularly with um movie people sometimes i think there can be this sense of like it's just a long movie it's not just a long movie it's its own form i mean my most shocking moment with the movie was when it ended. I'm so used to movies being 15 minutes too long. I know. Yours just ended. I'm like,

oh, we get out. I'm looking at my daughter. I'm like, it's over? What happened? I thought she was getting to college. I thought we'd had another half hour. And then that was it. I like that feeling of like... You left me wanting more. Yeah. And I was like, are we ever going to see Lady Bird again?

What happens? Is there going to be a sequel? Scott Rudin, who's one of the producers, and he also produces plays. He said something to me, but not about this movie. But he said, the best review you can get for a play is the runtime in the review. This is 90 minutes of sheer adrenaline. But I didn't plan it that way. I did know, this was another thing that was useful for me

is because of the movies I'd written with Noah, I knew that the pacing of my movies is faster than the page count. And our script was about 120 pages and i knew i would use almost all of it and it would go faster than everybody thought because there was this feeling of like is it too long and i was like not the way i'm going to it was actually a distinctive style like i i noticed it and i'm not like yeah i love movies but i'm not like a super film nerd where like oh i, oh, I love the jump cut.

But it definitely had a pace that seemed intentional. It's the way, I don't know. I remember reading like Howard Hawks when he was shooting his Girl Friday, that script was like really long. And they were like, you're never gonna get through all this. And he was like, they're gonna say it so fast. And then, so it's like, it was like a 200 page script

and they got through it so fast. Are you guys sports fans or no? I'm baseball. So, you know, Sacramento's never won anything. The Kings should have won the 2002 title. That was my senior year of high school when the spring of 2002, and it was a heartbreaker.

Yeah, it was the worst thing that ever happened to Sacramento was that series. And everybody put up in their window the Kings emblem. Everyone was cheering for it. Everybody was wearing purple every day. They stole the NBA title away from the Kings. The refs and the Lakers won the series. How did they steal it from them? It was the most, it was

the worst officiated game six. My point is, if you win, if you win one of these Oscars, this would, Sacramento's this would be the payback for the playoffs. My brother sent me a text of, there's a billboard up in

Sacramento that has congratulations to lady bird hashtag sacramento proud losing it's been a lot of losing there um no we're coming back also the king's got a new arena now and they're like i think they're really i think they're gonna turn it around i think the kings are gonna be they're gonna surprise everything everyone there was this weird story about how northern californ California is trying to secede and become the 51st state that I read yesterday. From Southern California?

I mean, honestly, it is so... It's like Sacramento and Fresno and Chico and all these different places are trying to split. And they're like, yeah. No, I mean... So keep an eye on that. Who knows? It is so very different.

Because I feel like when people think of California, they're like, oh, you must have gone to L.A. all the time. And it's like, I literally never went to L.A. It's an eight hour drive. People have no idea how gigantic California is. It's also Sacramento is so different to down here. So different. Yeah.

I mean, it really feels like a different state. Is Ireland bigger than L.A.? I don't even. Ireland's bigger than L.A., but I think it's about the same size as Maine. You can fit about eight Ireland's into Texas. Eight Ireland's into than LA, but I think it's about the same size as Maine. You can fit about eight Ireland's into Texas. Eight Ireland's into Texas. Yeah. Oh.

I still want to go. I have to go see 25% of my body. Yeah, right. Yeah. I got to go see the homemade. Quarter of you. Thank you, ladies. Thank you.

Good luck with the awards season. This was fun. I hope you both feel better. I know. We'll switch ailments. Hopefully we survive through all the awards shows. When was fun. I hope you both feel better. I know. We'll switch ailments. Hopefully we survive through all the award shows. When's the Lady Bird DVD?

March. I think it's March. Oh, it's coming out in March. There's some extra stuff, yeah. Her drinking with the crew? Any of that stuff? Yeah, just her like

cracking open a beer and being like, tell me about your blight truck. We had a few nights like that. We did. we actually did I'd find Greta like by the grips truck at the end of the day

the grip truck that they had they had they had they had a party bus they had a party bus they had all these lights rigged up

that would switch colors they'd like synchronize to the music they'd synchronize to the music they had like a full a full mini fridge of beers. And it was honestly like after a long day of shooting, especially like on a Friday,

it would be like get yourself an Apple box and sit by the grip truck. And I was always just by the grip truck. You were the first one there. I was like, I'm done for the week. I got to sit. I remember one time you did Take Over the Music and you were like-

Because they kept playing, they kept trying to be cool. Yeah, like indie techno. And you were like, I can't do how you say it, but you were like, play Rihanna. Just give the people what they want. I forgot that Dave Matthews, I'm not sure which generation belongs in.

Yeah. Because I was like early mid twenties then when that first first album and I kind of felt like that was mine. But I think for your generation, you kind of claimed it. And I don't know. I don't know who gets it. I don't know who it belongs to. I mean, I remember I first heard it when I was younger than Lady Bird. But in this way of like people still got music from the radio.

So like hits from the 90s were still playing in the early 2000s. Like it wasn't. It was almost like a little tweak in nostalgia. Yeah. And also things fade much faster now than they faded then. Like if you turn on the alternative station in Sacramento, they still had like Dave and Toad the Wet Sprocket. They had Dave. First name. Dave. First name.

Dave. First name, base, name. DMB. Okay, we got to go. Bye. All right, coming up, Francesa Fridays with Mike Francesa and we'll make our round three picks.

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and download the Hotel Tonight app. Back to the podcast. All right, we've been calling it Francesa Fridays. What do you think of that? You like that, Mike? I like it. Francesa Fridays. Last week, you lucked out.

I was destroying you with the picks. I was 2-1. You were like 80 games on the 500 before last week. We don't want to bring that up, but go ahead. A win's a win, and I was up 2-1. You were 1-2, and I was about to win on the Saints. And then all of a sudden, one of the biggest miracles in the history of football happened and you get a push. You know, after this, the Vikings would have spent the entire offseason wondering how they

ever gave that game back. I mean, they had the game completely under control until full, until Case Keenum decided after the first touchdown, when their defense just needed to get a second off the field and to reorganize, to throw that pass was just so ill-advised. I mean, it was unbelievable. And that one, you know, started them in a very different direction. And really, they never got it going but I gotta be fair here I saw vulnerabilities in the fourth quarter in that Minnesota defense that we had not seen

and they did not distinguish themselves under pressure and if they are going to face a Tom Brady in two weeks they're going to have to be much better than they were in that game I mean that's just a given but let's say this. I know the overall theme this week coming in is Brady's injury,

which we'll get to. But I was thinking about it. If it's Brady with Bortles, Foles, and Keenum, shouldn't Brady have to throw left-handed anyway? I mean, it's the only thing that's equitable. I mean, is that he actually throws left-handed. He's been properly crippled to fit in with those other guys, I think. Yes, I gather the gods have done that.

And that is the overriding cause. First of all, you're dealing with a place that gives out less information than the White House does. And that is the PAC. So you can never trust anything that comes out of the pass so you really have to take all this I don't care how close you might think you are to the pass when it comes to injuries

to their players you have to actually be in the room see it with your own eyes and then I'd only believe half of what I saw because that's how crazy they are about hiding injuries. So it'll be no one will have a real handle on how good or bad or how much this will affect Brady right up to game time. I don't care if you're in the room with them. You won't have a handle on this.

I've heard he's legit hurt and I've heard he's playing. He is. Yes, so have I. As close as I can get to it, as confidently as I can get to it. And like I said, you've got to be careful with the pass when it comes to this stuff. I believe they are today extremely concerned about his hand situation. Yeah. So let's go. Let's go backwards. Last weekend, we had three. We had three defenses that people like Jacksonville, Philly and Minnesota. Only one of those defenses actually acquitted themselves in a really big way. What did you learn about Jacksonville's D and Minnesota's D?

Jacksonville's D was put in a precarious situation in that matchup. Nobody can stop Pittsburgh's offense. It has too many weapons. They have such special offensive talent. It just shows you how badly coached they really are. And really what you came out of last week was not so much defensive prowess because really defenses now are not defenses in the glory days of the NFL or the older days of the NFL because the older days of the NFL, because the rule changes have mitigated

against the defense so enormously that the defense really is never now, except in the case where they can get pure pass rush. Except in terms of, because there's no way to protect against that, no way to legislate against that. They have legislated against anything else the defender does on the field. They have taken away his ability to play pass defense in the secondary completely. You can't beat somebody because your secondary plays brilliantly. Because you can't. They don't allow you to play brilliantly anymore. So the way the rules are, the only thing you have to have, and it can happen,

is you can have a disruptive pass rush to the point where it dominates the game. And if you don't have that, you will not never have defense that will completely dominate the game. It has to be done at the, at the, at the line of scrimmage. It has to be done against the, against really four guys against your offensive line. If it's a blitz, it won't work against good quarterbacks like Brady. Uh has to be done with a conventional pass rush. That's really the difference here. And you didn't see that from these teams. What I really learned in these games of the three close games, put the Pat game aside.

The only one in the world who thought the Pat game was going to be close for some reason was Tony Romo. Other than that, for some reason, he thought the game was going to be very close. Other than that, nobody in the world did. You and I didn't. And we got the game exactly that we expected. I did not expect all those sacks out of the path. But other than that, we saw what we expected out of the Patriots. But the other three games, what you saw there were classic examples in all three games of

how precious good coaching is in these games and why the Pats never beat themselves. It's not just their talent. It's their ability to play the game clean at every moment. You saw such definitive breakdowns in coaching in the Atlanta game, in the Jacksonville game for Pittsburgh and in the Minnesota game both ways. I mean, listen, Sean did some stupid things. His second challenge was mind-bogglingly bad, okay? The Vikings get a punt blocked, which absolutely cannot happen in a big part of a big playoff game.

It's almost impossible to get a punt blocked in a close game in a big spot and overcome it. It's to get a punt blocked in a close game in a big spot and overcome it. It's that devastating a play. And they did because of a play where you can't even understand where the positioning was of the New Orleans defenders on that play. So these teams will make plays and disintegrate in all these games. The Pats don't.

And the times the Pats have faced teams that don't, they've been in good games. And the thing the Giants did when they beat them twice was really very simple. They did not turn the ball over. They got four-man pass rush in both games, and then their quarterback made plays in the fourth quarter. And that's really what it came down to.

Jacksonville can get a conventional pass rush, but I do not believe that Bortles will play the role of Eli Manning in the fourth quarters of those games. Eli Manning in those two fourth quarters made play after play. He was, I believe, nine for 14 in the first colossal upset with 140 or 50 yards of offense. And in the other game, he was 30 or 40 for the game, but he also connected on the Manningham play and two other great plays in the fourth quarter of that game. He had great fourth quarters, no turnovers and big plays. And you're going to have to do that to beat the Patriots. Bortles, they would have to get the four man pass rush. And they also would need Bortles to play an exceptional game. I don't think he can do that. I wrote on TheRinger.com today about the most shocking in-game playoff football moments I've ever seen.

Where did Diggs rank for you? It reminded me of the Immacaculate reception. That's really what it reminded me of. I mean, that's the play that kind of stuck in my, there's two plays that came to mind would be, one was the Drew Pearson play in Minnesota, uh, which, uh, I remember. And the other was the immaculate reception. It re it reminded me of those two plays. It was so stunning that he was actually in the end zone before I actually thought I was seeing what I was seeing. I mean, I was actually thinking about how bad a loss this was for Zimmer and the Vikings and how they had given away a game and what a colossal win this was for Drew Brees' career. because Drew Brees not only had the

Saints showing patience, but Drew Brees had made some great throws in the fourth quarter of that game. I mean, he really had. And listen, the Vikings did everything wrong. They did not change up their defenses. They did not give them a lot of different looks. Things you have

to do against smart quarterbacks in those games. I was very disappointed in what Minnesota did at the end of the game. I thought they really unraveled defensively, but you also got to credit Breeze. The fourth down throw he made to Snead was unbelievable. Just some of the plays he made, but to have that game change on the dime the way it did, so many things have to go wrong that it's hard to believe that they were positioned the way it did, so many things have to go wrong that it's hard to believe that they were positioned the way they were positioned considering what the game was about at that point. The odds on him making that play for a field goal was 30 to one. The odds on him making it for a touchdown had to be 100 to one. Yeah, you made a good point about Breeze would, it would have changed his legacy.

We always talk about legacy too much. It's a sports radio term, but he needed that kind of one last late career thing to push his career to another level. Cause I don't think he gets the same respect as like the Brady Manning, people like that. And he's, and he's not on that level.

He's good. He's really good. He's a hall of famer, but he, he could use another one, and that would have been a special one. It really would have, because they stood in there and they showed patience. They really did. And listen, they were completely dominated. I mean, after three quarters, I believe they were one for 10 on third down. I mean, they had done nothing in

that game. That game never should have got close, and they needed a couple plays for it to happen against Minnesota. They needed the interception in the short field. They needed the block punt in the short field. So they needed two short fields, and Kamara, they have a special player. They have a special unguardable disruptive player

in Kamara. People will learn how to play him, but right now they have no idea how to play him. I mean, you cannot even interplay him with a linebacker.. You got to be out of your mind. And I think Michael Thomas is special too. I think they have two special players. No, they're both good. They're both very good. But Kamara is unbelievable. They have, no one has a figure. Kamara is almost like a Gronkowski. They have nobody to guard him right now. They don't have anybody on their defense who could guard him. They really don't. So, I mean, they're unguardable players. I was watching that game trying to decide who I wanted the Patriots to play,

but also hoping that the Saints would somehow cover. And then when it got to the point where it was clear the Saints were going to cover, although it turns out they pushed in a lot of things. But when it became clear that at least I didn't have to worry about the cover and I just went into the, all right, who do I want to win? I wanted Minnesota to win. I thought the Saints were a scarier team for the Patriots. I just thought that for them to come back from the abyss like that on the road and really take over the game late and how dangerous they were. I was terrified of Thomas. I was terrified of Camara. Um, I didn't want to play

them. So I was kind of relieved is where that sounds. I understand. Think about this from the other point of view for a second of this. Everyone's talking about the legalization of gambling in the years to come, and it will happen. There's no question. And what leagues think they have to guard against and not. Think about that scenario in that Minnesota game and realize that, let's say, 30% to 40% of the people who wagered, let's say wagered at five and a half one way or the other. So let's say 10 to 15 percent or 20

percent of the people had Vikings minus five and a half for argument's sake. Yeah. Could you imagine the national upheaval of them going out there and taking a knee at the at that? So the NFL thought that they had rectified this by saying, you must come out and do the try. But the idea, what's happened is nobody comes out and now does the try anymore. They've gotten away from actually kicking the extra point. They need to fix it. Right.

They need to just end the game on the play because this doesn't work now. Now you're leaving it open to the idea of do we run it in against the defense that doesn't care for two points do we kick the extra point or do we just take a knee now twice this year we've seen teams take a knee any way you go out and do that is going to lead it to such open speculation that what they should do now is reverse it and say the game ends on the score if there's no time on the clock no extra point because now you're leaving it to an interpretation of how the team wants to play it well and then on top of that digs scores the touchdown and immediately throws his helmet which is a 15-yard penalty and the ref threw the flag you can see

the flag go down after the game that. But the game was over. Right. The game is over. But if the game's not over and you have to kick the PAT, then you have to run the penalty back. So the whole thing was a mess, and you're right. If gambling was legal, people would have gone nuts. The game is over, but they make it a rule that you must try to try.

So attempt to try. They think they did that to clear up any gambling speculation. All it has done now is create more because teams were for a while, they were, I think if you go back and research it, you'll see teams did kick the extra point a couple of times in those scenarios. Now they've gotten away from that. They just go out and take a knee, which is a different situation. So I think you don't want to open any of that to speculation. You now want to make it that the game ends on the play so that they understand we don't have anybody speculate on why they did what they did. Imagine if they went in there and ran it in for two points. Everyone would say, oh, somebody had a bet on a game, blah, blah, blah, blah. So there's always going to be wide speculation if you leave it the way it is now. Well, you just made way too much sense. And we live in Roger Goodell's world. So there's no way they're going to fix it. Let's take a quick break and we'll do the picks. The fantasy football season is behind you. The only

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with up to a 50% bonus. Just use promo code BILLSIMMONS when making your account. Visit mybookie.ag today and bet on the internet's favorite sports book. Where you play, you win, and you get paid. Back to the podcast. All right, so we have the two lines.

We have the Patriots. The line was nine or nine and a half for most of the week, and it's dropped to seven and a half. And I actually think it's gonna drop to seven by the weekend. And then you have the Eagles getting three again at home, two straight weeks. Home dogs in Philly against the Vikings.

The early game is the Patriots. It looks like, I'm surprised to hear this and read this, but it looks like the weather is going to be in the 45 to 47 degree range. Weather's going to be good. Which is good for Tom Brady's broken hand. Yeah, good for the broken hand. And there we go. Go ahead. So what do you got? Well, good for the broken hand. And there we go. So what do you got?

Well, here's what I think. First of all, you know, we're going to go on this Brady. Hey, it is what it is. We know he's going to play. The question is,

how much is he going to be impacted? We're just not going to know. We're going to have to live with it. It has, as you said, brought the line down. So the line will be somewhere. So let's use, you decide what you want to use. Seven and a half.

Yeah, seven and a half right now. Okay. I believe that in every area of this team – first of all, let me say this. People have brought up, especially in Boston, the Tom Coughlin scenario and the Tom Coughlin overshadowing of the game. It's ludicrous. They've given it wayowing of the game. It's ludicrous. They've given it way too much credence. It's ludicrous.

He is not the coach of this team. Marone, who is a Coughlin disciple, still is the coach of this team. Marone even diffused that this week by saying he's never watched either of the giant wins against the Patriots on film.

Okay. So the bottom line is it is overdone completely. Now with that said, they are built though to do what those giant teams did in one area and completely, they aren't built in the other area. They are built to have a four-man pass rush. They are built that way. They have players who can be disruptive. They have got to get the best out of their best pass rushers. If they can get a four-man pass rush, this will be a ballgame. If they do not, and I believe what the Pats are going to do is the Pats are going to come out.

They are going to go to a very, very quick offense. They are going to go to a no-huddle offense. They are going to spread them out. They are going to dink and dunk it, especially if his hand is bad. They're going to go to three-step drops. It's going to be boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They're not going to let him substitute, and they're going to wear him down. They're going to run a million plays, and that's what they're going to go to three-step drops. It's going to be boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They're not going to let them substitute and they're going to wear them down. They're going to run a million plays

and that's what they're going to do. And they're going to try and take the starch out of them early and make sure they took the starch out of them in the fourth quarter if they need it. That's what they're going to do to them. I think it will work. I think Jacksonville thinks they're ready for this. I don't think they understand what they're up against. I think they've talked a little too much. They have young players who have not shut their mouths this week. I think the Pats will close them. The other part of this is the other part of that scenario that everyone is so scared about in Boston.

The four-man pass rush. The presence of Coughlin. You do not have Eli Manning in this game. You have a bad quarterback who last week was allowed to do good things because the Steelers are completely inept in every way in terms of how they are coached. They are coached miserably now. Tomlin has gone from being a superb coach to a bad coach. Maybe he's got a good coach in there somewhere now. We haven't seen it in years. Their decision-making and their defensive approach was laughable in that game. Absolutely laughable that he didn't kick off and went for the onside kick. Forget how bad the onside kick

effort was. It was ridiculous. The guy cost his team touchdowns worth of points last week. Steelers with their offense should have overwhelmed Jacksonville. They moved the ball at will in that game. There's no way they won't take the starch out of Jacksonville. Conversely, I don't believe in Bortles. He did good things last week. I don't think he'll be there for this one. I think the Pats have their defense ready to go. I saw very good things from the Pat defense last week. I think they're ready for a big effort. I think despite the Brady situation, I expect a lot of short dink and dunk, a lot of open backfield looks, a lot of dink and dunk and tempo game

and multiple play runs for the Pats. Keeping the ball long field. They're going to drop seven, rush four, and look for them to make it a long game that way. I still think the Pats win this game 10 to 14 points. Give me New England minus seven and a half. I agreed with everything you said about the know-how to speed the game up, keep the Jags defense on the field. Because I think that was the plan and we saw them do it against the Titans last week. And it is like the thing that Pats can do any week and they don't do it as much during

the regular season. Cause they don't really need to, they don't want to show it. I think there's probably only so many audibles and signals you can do at the line that they don't just want to do it for 20 straight weeks, but they can do it whenever they want. And anytime they really need to do it against good defense, it's there. Brady's the best at it. He goes to the line, he reads everything. And I thought that's what they were going to do in this Jags game. I am really worried about the hand. I don't know.

I just, just two decades of following this team during the Brady Belichick era, all the signs are bad. And to ask him to throw 50 plus times when he's clearly hurt makes me nervous. And it's over a touchdown. We've seen this Jaguars team in different variations over the years in Foxboroughs to mixed degrees of success. I think the best examples were the Sanchez Jets team, the Ravens team in 09 that beat them up pretty bad,

the Ravens team in 2012 that really would have won if Lee Evans had just held on to that pass for one more second. So we've seen kind of the recipe for the ugly game, defense, keep the pats off the field, rush up the middle. The Jags are built like this. And as you said, the one caveat is, is Bortles any good? I don't know. The Steelers weren't pressuring him last week,

and he got really comfortable and looked really good. The Patriots showed that they had a pass rush last week, but that was against Tennessee, who lost their best offensive lineman during the game, who wasn't good to begin with. And it makes me nervous. I wish this line was three and a half, but unfortunately it's seven and a half. And I cannot take the Pats minus seven and a half and then have Brian,

Brian or in the game in the third quarter, it just makes me too nervous. So I'm taking the points. I'm picking the Pats 20 to 19. Well, listen, I understand you. listen, I understand you split the baby, but most times in playoff games, you usually don't win. It happens very rarely that you win. You win, but don't cover. Yeah, it's true.

It happened twice in round one. It doesn't happen a lot. In round one, it happened twice. Last year, it never happened. It doesn't happen a lot, but listen, my feeling is if they're behind in the fourth quarter and Bortles has to make a play, it's going back the other way for a touchdown. I mean, I really believe he will not. He got to play these games without a lot of pressure. He made

plays against the Steelers. I can't say he didn't. but the Steelers allowed him easy reads on anything he wanted. They gave him nothing to look at. They did not take away anything from him. The Pats will take away everything he wants to rely on, and I don't see this guy going through his second and third receivers and beating people. I do not see him doing that, and Belichick will make him bring the ball down, and he will make him make extra reads, and he will make him take the ball to his second and third choices. And I just don't think he's capable under pressure of doing that.

And I think he will. And I think the Pats have multiple ways now to move the ball. They have a running game, which they haven't had, and they'll be able to dink and dunk it. They have all their weapons healthy. They have everybody back for the first time all year on offense. Every single guy is back and they have so many varied guys who can catch the ball three and four yards and then stretch the field. Two things they're going to be stressing in Jacksonville. I can hear them right now. Number one is going to be four-man pass rush. We have to get to the quarterback to win. It's going to be what now. Number one is going to be four-man pass rush. We have to get

to the quarterback to win. It's going to be what Tom preached. It's going to be what Marone preaches. The other thing is going to be, we can't let them yards after the catch. Yards after the catch are going to be critical because they're going to catch these short passes. They're going to try and hit seams and run with them. Well, they're going to hit these short passes and they're going to hit seams and they're going to run with them. And I don't care if Tom Brady has to throw it out there with two fingers on it. He's going to get it to enough guys to make plays. And I just don't believe that with the game on the line that Jacksonville's ready for this. You know, most people ridiculed them last week, gave them no chance in

Pittsburgh and they went in and they've matched up great against Pittsburgh. They have. And let's be honest, Pittsburgh did not prepare for them. Pittsburgh even talked about playing past them. Pittsburgh didn't eat, acted like they weren't even an obstacle. And they got their lunch. But remember, if they don't get two defensive touchdowns, they don't win that game. Pittsburgh moved the ball up and down the field at will in that game. And they got two defensive touchdowns, Jacksonville. If they don't get those, they don't win that game. And they got a stupid onside kick for three more points. They handed them 17 points. The Pats won't hand him a point. They handed him 17 points. To me, that's why I think everyone will go against. I hear, I've had 10 people tell me Jacksonville's

going to upset him already. I've had people in the league tell me Jacksonville's going to upset him. Everybody's jumping off the Brady bandwagon. That's when I want to be on at the most, okay?

I'm there minus seven and a half. Now, the other game, I hated laying points with the Falcons. I told you that last week. I congratulate you on the eagle pick. It was a good one.

I really thought the Falcons were going to score when they had first and goal their season. And Sarkeesian, it was announced today, is coming back, which is just absurd.

But he is coming back. He's the only guy in the league who can figure out a way to stop Julio Jones. He did. Okay. You know, it used to be the old one. Who was the only guy ever to stop Michael Jordan? It was Dean Smith. Well, the only guy who ever stopped Julio Jones was the Falcon offensive coordinator

because the idea that Julio Jones couldn't find the end zone all year was a joke. And their play calling there, those four plays will live in infamy. That's how bad they were. They should have won that game. Their play before the half was atrocious. It cost them points. The Eagles in this game to me have one thing they did in the game that I got to give them great credit for. They made big kicks, give the kick a great credit. They also push the Falcon defense, which is small around. I don't think they'll be able to run it a lick on Minnesota. If they can't, that will push Foles into passes he can't make. If they can get Foles into a handful of third and longs,

it's going to be a nightmare for Philly. If Philly's in third and long and they weren't in the Eagle game, they didn't spend their time there. Plus, the Falcons did a terrible job, a terrible job of defending the edges and defending really what were very simple pass plays. I think the Viking defense will be incredibly sounder. I worry about special teams with the Vikings,

especially off last week. It's probably going to come down to field goals, not touchdowns. It's definitely inside the realm of an interception or a fumble in their own end deciding this game. But I'm taking what I think

is the much sounder defense. I think the Eagle defense is good in spots, but I think the Minnesota defense is the best in the league. And I don't think the Eagles are going to be able to run it at all. If they run it, if the Eagles can run it, if they're getting five yards on first down, I'm going to be dead wrong about this game. You'll know right away. If the Eagles are running the ball for yardage, for serious yardage, I'm going to be wrong about this game. If it's third and long every time, I'm going to be right about this game. If it's third and long every time, I'm going to be right about this game. I think

Minnesota wins. I don't like that they're favored. I was hoping the game would be pick them. I hate laying points on the road because this game could easily be a Minnesota win by one or two. I'm sticking with the Vikings. I've been anti-Folk, so I'm not going to go on them after last week.

I just couldn't have them self-destruct now. I couldn't watch that and say how dumb that was. I'm not going to go on them after last week. I just couldn't have them self-destruct now. I couldn't watch that and say how dumb that was. I'm sticking with Minnesota. I'm not overly confident, especially playing three. I'm not overly confident, but I'm going to go with Minnesota to win a game 17-10, 16-10, and then get to play one more time. So here's one thing I liked about Keenan last week.

After throwing one of the worst-looking interceptions in playoff history, he was not afraid to throw the ball after that. I got to give him credit. They threw the ball even more than I thought they would after that. I gave him credit. He's not afraid. He did not play afraid. I don't think he's any good, but he didn't play afraid.

And if Minnesota doesn't play afraid, I still think they're the better team this year. I'm going to go Minnesota 16-10. How's that? Okay. You left out one thing in your Philly-Atlanta recap. Philly put the ball on the ground over and over again for the first half or so of that game and gave Atlanta every single chance possible to pull away, and they didn't.

Absolutely did. Absolutely did. I don't think that happens again. They fumbled a punt on their own, what was it, like their own 20? Yeah. The Giants put the ball down a couple times. I think they'd take care of the ball better. I actually liked what I saw from Foles last week,

and it makes sense when you hear he practiced with the first string for the last four weeks. And, you know, he's a guy who has had competent moments in his past. He's not somebody that we've just never seen him do anything decent in his career. I like their defense more than you. I think especially at home, I love their front seven. I thought Fletcher Cox was unbelievable last week. And I think I like their defense more than Minnesota's defense. On top of that, there was a great stat about Keenum in that Saints game

where he had a QB rating of 116 when he wasn't getting pressured. And it dropped to 5.1 when he was getting pressured. And I think the Eagles can pressure him. I think they can knock him around. I'm not sold on their running backs. To me, this just feels like an ugly 16-13, 17-15,

some sort of weird score that's going to come down to special teams. Neither team's going to score 20 points in this game. If Minnesota gets to 20, they're going to win because I don't think the Eagles can get to 20, but it's going to come down to special teams, home field, fans, one dumb mistake. And we've already seen Minnesota last week made a bunch of dumb mistakes, especially

when the pressure got tight. I heard what you said about Keenum, about how he wasn't afraid to throw the ball. I thought it was really interesting when they were going for the go ahead field goal, which they ended up getting, but it was a 53 yarder and they had first down at like the 40. They got so conservative there and it didn't seem like they totally trusted him.

Now I know the next series, he ended up throwing one of the great passes we've seen and, and they, they get a touchdown out of it. But that third and five where it just seemed like they were really happy to trust Kai Forbath with a 53-yard field goal with their whole season on the line, that made me a little nervous. And I don't know.

I just like getting home dogs with a good defense that I believe in. I agree with you. Listen, I think the Philly crowd is worth points. I don't think there's any question that if this game was in Minnesota, I don't think Philly would have much of a chance. I really, I agree. I think the whole field is big for Philly. I really do. And listen, if this game is 16, 13 Philly, I'm not going to be shocked. I totally agree with you. I would, I would not be shocked. One other thing, one of my rules, it makes me nervous

when a team acts like they won the Superbowl the previous week, and we're still like in round two or round three. And that win was so dramatic and so exhilarating. It's so amazing. It really was like winning the Super Bowl. No question. And that could go one of two ways. Either they won their Super Bowl last week and it's going to be hard for them to match the emotions of that. Or it turns into a Dave Roberts deal situation where you have this tortured fan base who's just used to getting kicked in the balls every step of the way. And yet again, it's happening. Here we go. Oh my God, we're blowing it again. And then a miracle happens and flips the script. And now all of a sudden everybody just buys into it. And as a Patriot fan, that worries me the most,

that this is now a team of destiny. So I see that angle, but I'm going the other way. I like, I like, well, you should realize already. There's no way right now that probably either one of those franchises, Minnesota or Philly is actually going to win the Superbowl. So you got to realize that one of them is going to play in it,

but neither one is probably going to, is going to win it. I mean, it just, it doesn't seem like they're franchises that are ever going to win. Something bad has to happen to both of them. We know that, and it's got to happen one at a time, unfortunately. But think about this. How would you try to promote Jacksonville, Minnesota for two weeks? What about Jacksonville, Philly?

I think Jacksonville, Minnesota, I guess it could go with the home angle, but Jacksonville, either one, Jackson, the commission, trying to promote Jacksonville in the Super Bowl for two weeks. Well, you're making, this is what all the people betting and rooting for Jacksonville, either one, Jackson, the commission, trying to promote Jacksonville in the Super Bowl for two weeks? Well, you're making, this is what all the people betting and rooting for Jacksonville are worried about. People now claim the Patriots get all the calls. That was a big storyline on Saturday night, that the Pats were getting all the calls against the Titans. Goodell is taking two first-round picks from us.

He railroaded our quarterback. Listen, we can go back and talk about the tuck play forever, all right? We can debate theuck play forever. We can debate the Tuck play forever. And that play, I think you can make a good case either way for. But do I think that in any way the Pats are getting a break from the whistles? No, I don't. I don't think so at all. I don't believe that.

I just think the Pats are smarter than the other teams. I think that they're better coached and they're smarter than the other teams. And that is what makes the difference. Plus, they have the only elite quarterback playing right now. I mean, that and he's one of the all-time greats, hands or no hands. So that plays into it enormously.

The idea of having these two quarterbacks, you know, in this game right now, on the NFC side. But I'll be fascinated to see if the Minnesota defense, which I believe in, can step up and dominate this opponent. Because if they can't, what they've put together the last couple of years, painfully put together, is a sham. If they are going to be who they are, they are going to show up and they are going to make this game where they are a force on the field and are the best unit on the field.

If they're not the best unit on the field this weekend in that game, then they should forget about what they built and just scratch it because they built this thing to be a force. It was a force for three quarters and then it melted in the fourth quarter of that game. Yes, they got short field twice. I understand that. They only came the length of the field on them once all day. I do understand that, but you got to sometimes be there when the fields are short and hold people to field goals. They couldn't do that against Breeze and Kamara and Thomas. They couldn't do it. Now they're not facing that quality of player. Let's see them dominate.

I'm giving them a chance to show me, and I'm believing that they can be the force in this game. If they're not, they're not what they were cracked up to be. If, in a worst-case scenario for this game, where Brady doesn't look good, at what point does Romo, when's the first time he brings up the Garoppolo trade? Like midway through the first quarter?

No, that will be brought up the first errant pass that Brady throws. The first time that happens. And if ever, can you imagine what the storyline changes to if Brady is on the sideline? Which I'm telling you right now, will not happen if he's conscious. It will not happen.

He will not leave the game unless he is unconscious. I agree. So I don't even think that's even a possibility, but it's put a fascinating twist into this game. It's even got you scared to the point you're picking the pass in an AFC title game at home by one point against Jacksonville and Bortles. I know. By one point you're picking them.

I've gone to a really dark place and it really does scare me that this all comes back to the Garoppolo trade. I have been thinking about it a lot and I guarantee my dad is going to text me about it 140 times over the weekend because he didn't like the trade from the gecko it makes it fascinating and i'll tell you the best game that we can have is new england looking like new england against that minnesota defense playing in its building that is that is the best game with the hundred-year-old grandma in the stands. You know, she might even kick off.

I don't know what will happen. We'll have to wait and see. But that is the best storyline, and that is my storyline. By the way. Minnesota and New England, and not your New England by a point, you of the faint heart. New England by double digits. By the way, that's like the last thing Brady would have to accomplish in a Super Bowl,

winning it in the home team stadium. And breaking the heart of a 100-year-old grandma. I mean, think about that, right? Quick pop culture recommendation for you. Go ahead. The assassination of Gianni Versace on FX is really good. Yeah, it's really good. Really?

I mean, that was a crazy, terrifying story, as we all know. Yes. It was, but I could see that being, I will check that out. That was, you know, that guy was a strange bird, I mean, to say the least. So I remember that story, yeah. It is captured. Any movies did you see the last week? I did not see anything.

Oh, yes, I saw Churchill. Okay. I saw the Churchill movie. Now, you're going to have to, if you like history like me, you'll find first of all, the performance is unbelievable. I mean, he won the Golden Globe, as you know, but his performance was spellbinding. The makeup, just what they transformed him into is unbelievable, but the acting is brilliant. He's brilliant as Churchill, but you have to be a real World War II history buff if you're going to like this movie. If you like that, if you like the idea of that kind of politics and world history, then you're going to really love it,

and it's a brilliant performance. I did watch that on DVD. Okay, two thumbs up from Mike. I think we're, should we talk next week or do you want to wait till the Superbowl? Superbowl week. Just Superbowl week. Superbowl week. All right. So you're coming back in two weeks. Thank you. Good luck to you. Goodbye. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. My listeners can try for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to the all new SimpliSafe, completely rebuilt and redesigned with new safeguards to protect against power outages, down Wi-Fi,

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Don't forget to come back on Monday. Me and Cousin Sal will break down all the action from Sunday. I don't have I feel it's within On the wayside On the brimstone Never once said I don't have to Ever