The Bill Simmons Podcast - Harden Goes Undertaker, a Wide-Open West, Tatum’s Biggest Test, and More NBA Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the 76ers' Game 4 win over the Heat (3:14), why Bill thinks Suns-Mavericks is a closer series than it seems (24:08), the Warriors going up 2-1 over the Grizzlies (42:21), the Bucks stealing Game 3 from the Celtics (1:05:17), and more! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, we don't just react to basketball games on this podcast on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday nights. We have Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on Ringer NBA Show or the Mismatch podcast as well. Go check out those podcasts if you love hearing people talk about basketball right after basketball happened. Ringer NBA Show, The Mismatch. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite.

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables going up on Monday night unless it gets bumped because the Bucks Celtics game goes into like five overtimes or something and I have to do a reaction podcast. It would take an incredible game for me to dust off the Zoom recorder on Monday night.

So assuming that doesn't happen, Beverly Hills Cop 2 on the rewatchables Monday night. I'm also going to be in the Prestige TV podcast tomorrow breaking down the season finale of Winning Time with Chris Ryan and Big Waz. That final episode went up on Sunday night, probably after you heard this podcast, but we'll be breaking it down on Monday.

I mentioned on Instagram, if you're not following me there, that May 8th, today, 15th anniversary of me doing a podcast. Goes way back to 2007 on ESPN. Did it there for exactly eight years, which is the crazy thing because I ended up leaving. My last day at ESPN was basically May 8, 2015. So eight years there, took a couple months off, started The Ringer. First podcast there was October 1, 2015.

I don't know how many we've done on this feed, maybe 800, 850, something like that. And then I don't know how many we did at ESPN, but 15 years and counting, just an unbelievable slew of celebrity guests, athletes, people in my life, coworkers, colleagues, talking basketball, football, pop culture, reacting to stuff.

It's really nuts. It's all a big blur at this point. It's been really great. It's one of my blur at this point. It's been really great. It's one of my favorite things to do. I still enjoy the hell out of it and I can't wait to do this one. Before we do it, I wanted to thank everybody for spreading the word and for listening and just for being cool with the pod because I love doing it. Second, I went to Pearl Jam on Friday night with my wife. It was 24 years after the first time we went to Pearl Jam together, which was in 1998. And they were just awesome. I just can't believe they're still. There's just not. And it was an awesome, awesome, awesome show. I had the best time. It was great to see them.

They even played Corduroy, which is the song you're about to hear. But kudos to those dudes. I love the brotherhood. I love the little stories that he tells. And I had an awesome time. Thank you, guys. So we're going to talk to Rosillo about round two.

A lot of storylines first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. It is 745 Sunday night. We're only doing a one-parter tonight. I think we can cram everything we have on these four series into 90 minutes, 90 crisp minutes. Ryan Rosillo is here. Rosillo, it's the 15th anniversary of my first podcast. It's the 7th anniversary of when I left ESPN, basically. Which anniversary would you celebrate at my house? I'm a positive guy. I celebrate the podcast anniversary. I would guess there might be a smaller gathering celebrating the ESPN one.

The departure? Yeah. Yeah. The public celebration is the 15 years. You were on it, man. You were on it early. Maybe it's just weird. It was hard to find a way to monetize these things.

It really was, especially when it was a kajillion-dollar company. Speaking of things that were hard to monetize, James Harden, how about that transition? So I could go one of two ways. You could either tell me, eh, maybe he's a little back. Maybe there's some signs. He had some good slashes to the rim, all that stuff.

Or you could just tell me he hit a couple threes that actually went in this time. He did seem a little peppier. He did seem a little more big game Jamesy than usual. But pardon me if I still have my guard up, Priscilla. Where do you stand on this? All right. I mean, this is kind of a summary of almost everything we're doing here.

When you think someone's awesome, it doesn't mean you think they're never going to have a bad game. And when you don't like someone, it doesn't mean you don't think they're incapable of ever having a good game. So coming in the first halves of this series,

Harden had totaled 56 points, 15-32 shooting, 6-14 on threes. The first three second halves prior to tonight, 10 total points in those three games, 3 of 14 overall, 0 of 8 from 3. The biggest thing that jumped out,

he was terrific tonight, okay? Terrific. I kept thinking like, wow, is Harden going to make Embiid's life easier? And I still think he does because Harden's still a terrific playmaker and reading stuff. I think he got a little bogged down. But seeing Harden with Embiid, you realize actually Embiid helps Harden.

I think that's more of the relationship in this. Because what Miami was doing to Harden those first two games that they won, I kind of felt like, hey, if you're the best player, you know there's two guys coming at you. Miami's going to get aggressive with their traps. They're well coached. They're very active. They have a big who can cover a lot of ground.

Have a plan. Have a plan when you know this is coming. And I felt like there were a lot of positions where Harden would just kind of stop and then be like, all right, you guys do something. Cut, cut. This time around, and not saying he didn't hit tough threes on top of it, it felt like the full array of... The prime

hardened thing isn't happening, but you still hope for these moments, and I thought this is the closest that we've seen in a big moment, really, since I don't know, even going back to last year's playoffs. When he was hurt, when he was totally banged up with the Nets. There's not a lot of the big James moments.

It became a really good playoff game. The way they were defending Embiid, I thought was fascinating. And to the point you made, which I thought was really smart, they were spending so much time denying Embiid the ball and trying to just make it hard for him

to get the ball that you're right. It opened up, you know, a little bit for Harden. Maxey, who only took 10 shots, but he can at least, if they swing it to him, he could at least try to drive to the basket. But they just basically decided Embiid's not beating us tonight. And he finished with 24, 13 field goals, 13 free throws. They put the game in Harden's hands. He played 41 minutes. I thought on the flip side,

they didn't really make him pay at all on the uh for for the fact that he's a defensive liability and that can we talk about the Doc Spolster thing if you had told me Doc was going to kick Spolster's ass in games three and four I would have been like all right that's plus 800 like who was the guy that

beat Canelo I would have thought I would have put at least does it be a be law whatever his name is I would have thought, I would have put at least odds. Does it be a B-Law, whatever his name is? I watched the whole fight. I can't remember his name. You can't remember his name and you actually got the fight. I didn't get the fight. I watched the whole fight. It was amazing. He kicked the shit out of Canelo. You and Sal made good points today though, too. You said you, we didn't lose on Canelo. We lost on vegan Canelo. Yeah. I didn't get the memo on vegan Canelo. Raheem Palmer actually

told me in like the fourth round, he's like, he texted me, I'm a little worried about the vegan thing. I'm like, what vegan thing? And I'm Googling it as the fight's going. And you're in a money-in? Yeah. I'm like, he's fucking vegan? Jesus. No wonder he has no strength. But anyway, Doc, I thought Doc did some really good stuff. And the fact that Miami missed all of those threes, you could say, well, Miami missed a whole bunch of threes. They were 14 for 65 from three in games three and four combined. We're like, well, those are going in. It's a different game.

I thought that was Philly's strategy. It was the Jedi mind trick. It's like, yeah, please, Gabe Vincent, knock yourself out. Who else wants to take them? Go ahead. They were okay with it, and Miami couldn't make him, and we'll get to the Duncan Robinson thing in a second, but I felt

like it was intentional, right? By the way, I don't mean that as a diss on Duncan Robinson. It's just amazing to think of a guy who looked like one of the best shooters in the game. They can't have him out there. He didn't play. When you say they can't have him out there. He didn't play. When you say they can't have him out there, they're choosing not to have him out there.

I know he didn't have a great season, but I find it hard to believe that if he's out there, Phil is at least thinking about, oh, this guy from 25 feet is a Deadeye. My guess is they're so worried about Hero and Duncan defensively. If you look at plus minus doesn't always tell the story, but when

you start looking for those big negatives, you find it with Hero and you find it with Oladipo. I think the Oladipo thing's been really nice and I wonder how much of a part of this he would be with Lowry coming back playing 30 minutes, who's clearly hobbled. He missed every 3 over 6, 3 to 10

from the floor, 6 points. Lowry is with this injury especially too. He missed every three over six, three to 10 from the floor, six points. Lowry is with this injury, especially too. He's entering that Derrick Fisher era where Derrick Fisher had no chance of finishing against anybody anymore. So he just dribbled into dudes and fell down and he got the call for like three years. And you'd be like, oh, transition, Derrick Fisher. He's going to drive it right at the guy's hip and fall down. And he got the call. He got the call. Are you saying Derek Fisher invented the flail? Whatever it was. I mean, Stockton was always the guy that dribbled at the hip.

And because he was little, he would always just get projectiled off of him. And I think Stockton was also... Mark Price was good at that, too. I don't know who the first one was, but I remember Stockton would go, all right, I'm not going to get around the screen at the top. I'm just going to dribble into the screener and then fall down. And look, the guys didn't get that call like they get it now. I mean, the call that Lowry got driving into Niang

and just falling down to start the fourth. I want Steve Javie just to have a button to push and be like, actually, I'm still back. I'm back. Anyway, I don't want to get all official out here, but there's some defensive combinations for a Miami team that is very good defensively that I think if you throw Duncan into the mix, that has to be what they're afraid of.

Lowry was 3 for 10, 4 turnovers, 0 for 6 from 3, 0 free throws. I'll say this. That is not a typical Kyle Lowry box score. He's hurt. Multiple times when the Spiro Didis was like, Oh, Larry's limping back. Oh,

Larry doesn't look right. Did Larry tweak his whatever? Look, we knew this. They gave him, they have three years, 85 million, you know,

and this was the rub. I thought there was like three times. It was like, Oh, he's done. And then he was back out there. So I, you know,

I give him credit for that. Uh, but no, you were talking about like the defensive effort to Embiid. And this is the thing that cannot be replicated in a game plan. The Steph influence. Steph can have a bad game, but I can still see how he positively impacts the team. Jokic certainly is that.

Giannis, even Luka today, which we'll get to. Luka actually didn't have a great game by Luka's standards, if you look at the efficiency and the point for possession stuff. But it's a massive problem you have to deal with. Poku's, I think, near the end there. Poku's in spurts. Yeah, in spurts when he's feeling it coming out of a half. But a prime example, maybe the biggest offensive play of the game

was the maxi alley-oop to Tobias Harris. And that's all because of Embiid. Because Embiid's at the right elbow extended and Butler's shading. And he got really too loose with his freelancing. But he's thinking about, man, they're going to throw to Embiid. It's a catch.

Let me try to come back on his spin side. And he's thinking that way. And then all of a sudden, Harris is just wide open. So, I mean, this is why this series is different. And I did think it was a little weird. The announcers were like, oh, everybody thought this Sixers team was for dead.

We're like, well, yeah, if Embiid wasn't coming back. Right. Did you watch the first two games? Like, yes. Now with Embiid back, we have a series. And I don't know which way this is going to go. Yeah, there was a couple moments with that with Harden in the first half.

Definitely, definitely. First half, they do the flashes of the old Harden. I was thinking like, it's just never a good sign when you're in the flashes of the old dot, dot, dot. It means something bad has happened to your career. The one that drives me crazy. It's just like this. And I know it's the moment of the game. And the game is like, it's that broadcast, right?

It's not a podcast. But it's like, they said he was slowing down. You're like, no shit. Yeah. Because I have a television. That's one of the things I've noticed is that somebody is half the speed they used to be. Yeah. They look, he was, had a really good game. We've seen aging stars have a really good game. I want to see if he can do it two more times. Cause it's the best two out of three.

I think if I'm, if I'm a Philly fan, where they were emotionally on Thursday when that story came out about Embiid, about the light from his iPhone, this is the first day he's been able to look at his iPhone without it hurting his eyes. At that point, if I'm a Philly fan, if I'm betting on Philly, anything, I'm just like, I'm out. This bet is done. The Sixers are going to lose. Then we get that we show up on Friday, watch the first quarter, he's playing with his mask, he doesn't seem comfortable. I just didn't think they were going to win. 48 hours later,

it's 2-2. Really, Butler, I think, is the only guy playing well on Miami. I know Bam did some good stuff in the game today, but game three, he was terrible. It was 9-for for 12 today. I guess he was fine today. But in general, I'm a little concerned about Miami because I wasted this vintage Butler game.

40 points, 12 for 13 from the line, 13 for 20. Has Bubble Jimmy replaced Playoff Rondo for you? Because Playoff Rondo, let's face it, has gone out to pastures. Bubble Jimmy, the new Playoff Rondo for you? Because playoff Rondo, let's face it, has gone out to pastures. Bubble Jimmy, the new playoff Rondo? Because I felt like Bubble Jimmy was back tonight. Yeah, you know, because you're thinking about how you want to talk about the game and you go Butler, you know, whatever disagreement I would have about Bubble Jimmy.

And it's like, why isn't this guy talked about more? And you're like, no, he's talked about the perfect amount. Like there's a group in front of him. It's properly rated. And then there's that next group and he's in the next group he's really good and you'd pay him max money and yeah it's a pain in the ass a little bit in a different way because because jimmy is going to have his moments but even when that stuff happened miami it was like okay this is weird i did my whole dialogue on it or monologue i should say but i also was like if

miami if anybody can can stomach this it's the Heat. They don't care about this stuff. And then he has that third quarter where he was giving it to everybody. And they are actually looking to switch it to Embiid a little bit. There is even some play. There's a little two-man game with he and Bam against the Harris-Embiid thing. They were looking for switches for Embiid. That's fun. And, you know, he kind of just knew Embiid was going to drop,

even though Embiid changes your mindset about what kind of drives you want to take. So even if Embiid isn't challenging every single shot, his presence alone is making you think differently about driving, which is another huge plus for Philadelphia in this. But that was a moment as I'm watching a game going, at least you have somebody on the Miami side that goes, all right, I've got to carry us. And that's why we talk about these guys so much.

That's why they can argue and get their way out, because they are so important. And he is not in that group of five or six, but he's in that group of 20. I had them all NBA again this year. Once it was all said and done on the third team, it was close to Siakam. And it was incredible because they can't make a three and they're still in this one. And it wasn't like it was this massive free throw disparity either. Pretty rough. If I'm a Miami fan, I'm really worried about who's my second scorer if Lowry isn't Lowry, which he's not.

I don't see a world where all of a sudden Lowry looks great in game five. I think this is who he is. Bam's getting some stuff, especially if Embiid's not on him. This is what worried me about this team heading into the playoffs, just when Miami fans are doing the,

what about us? We won't see you. Nobody's talking about us. And for me, it was always, man, Tyler Harrow's just really involved in your offense. And there's just nights when it just doesn't seem like his shot goes in and there's no plan B unless Jimmy's hot.

I don't trust their offense that much. They scored 108 today with Butler having his best game in the playoffs. And I do think, you know, when we go back to Miami, you figure Embiid, I think Embiid is, seems like, what is he, 80, 90% where he was with the mask on?

90%, 85? You're a much better percentage guy. Thank you. I always have been Harden who knows Maxie yeah Harris Green and Niang I have six guys on the Philly side that I can trust

because this is now we're getting in games 5 6 7 and it becomes a who do I trust I have six on the Philly side Miami I have Butler I have Bam I have six on the Philly side. Miami, I have Butler, I have Bam. I have slightly injured Kyle Lowry. And Hero, hopefully, but there's games when he doesn't show up.

And then who's, do you trust PJ Tucker? Seven points today. Do I trust Oladipo, who the Sixers were like, please keep shooting threes. We value your athleticism. Great, but I don't think your threes are going in. Strews? Gabe Vincent?

I think Philly has more guys I trust if this series goes longer. I guess Harden's a big X factor, though. Harden's going to play like this. Philly's one of the series. But I don't think he's going to. I think tonight is more aberration than they think. It is funny when he's playing well. I think tonight is more aberration than. Don't you think?

It is funny when he's playing well, you start going, is he thinner? And then when he has like a bad game, you go, this guy. Take it seriously. Would it be funny if he was just like, yeah, I just, I went bone broth for two days. I dropped four LBs. I feel so much quicker. I was eating at 2.30 in the morning. I guess that's not, I shouldn't do quicker. I was eating at 2.30 in the morning. I guess I shouldn't do that, apparently.

I think Hero's a more well-rounded offensive player than maybe he's given credit for. Initiates a lot of that offense, but the scoring's gone down in four straight games. He had a ton of rebounds tonight. But I'm with you. You're asking Strews to carry you. You're asking Gabe Vincent to hit bigger shots.

I mean, Markeith came in. Markeith came in. That's when I knew that Spoh was grabbing for stuff. Markeith, I don't know if you have to retire after getting your shot blocked like that and then falling down. That was worse than any poster I think I've ever seen. You know what the other factor is?

You know how we were talking about DeAndre Jordan in the minutes, right? You're going, all right, what's Doc going to do? And then after game one, everybody's like, is he still going to do this? And then Doc was like, look, I'm doing it. And he was defiant. I think he's just generally pissed off at everybody about the blown leads and that storyline seeping into the end of the Toronto series,

which I get, but people don't love it. The Heat had a 149 offensive rating with DeAndre Jordan on the floor. Wow. Wow. Okay. So guess who isn't playing anymore? He didn't play tonight. And Paul Reed even got some of those backup minutes. So guess what?

You think DeAndre to Embiid is the biggest disparity of one player to another that we have in the league right now? The point is it just got a lot harder, guys. And look at BAMS. The final numbers tonight were better but it's just different i mean it's almost like every now and then you have a little bit of a wake-up call and it's happening in other series too it's like you kind of you know i think the phoenix dallas one is a perfect example is it's like okay we got this we figured it out it's like

wait what is this you know and for dallas i think it was a bunch of things in game three and now they've tied that one up but i have to imagine like bam's kind of a bunch of things in game three. And now they've tied that one up. But I have to imagine like BAM's kind of coming up. And then in game three, you're like, oh, wait, this isn't DeAndre Jordan and Paul Reed anymore. And you can know it. Of course, they know each other. He's played against him a ton of times. But I don't think it's a crazy

theory to suggest that all of a sudden it's like you have to almost be reminded how real it is when you're doing it. If I were Miami, first of all, I'm giving a huge pep talk to Hero. We need you. We need to intuit these next three. We need you. You're the sixth man of the year.

You got to show up for us. I would pressure Harden. I think they made it too easy. Almost like what Milwaukee did with Boston those first couple of days where they were just like, we don't think you guys can dribble. It's 94 feet. Now, they can't do that with Lowry, but they can do that with other people. Like, Old Depot

played 32 minutes today. I just think if he's in, I'm pressuring Harden with him the entire court. I want to wear Harden out. I want him to be tired in the fourth quarter. I thought some of the stuff they did with Embiid was smart. Like, take him out. Let other people beat them. I don some of the stuff they did with Embiid was smart. Like, take them out. Let other people beat them.

I don't know if that happens in Miami like it happened with Philly. Before we move on on this, if you're a Philly fan, you gave up, right? Like, you basically gave up the Simmons-Hardin trade. You have your Sixers text change. It's either labeled, I hate Simmons or I hate Hardin, one of the two. And you're just on with your friends.

And you're just like, how did this happen to us? From last year where Ben Simmons does the dunk to now, we trade Curry and two firsts for this Hardin guy. Embiid's got a broken face for the second time in four years. Doc's playing DeAndre Jordan. We're going to get swept. Oh my God, I can't believe we're in this spot. And then 48 hours later, it's 2-2.

This is why I love the NBA playoffs. Hockey's like this too. The Bruins were dead. You should hear the phone call I had with my dad after the Bruins' hurricanes down 0-2. My dad's like, it's embarrassing. It's over. Blah, blah, blah. They got to. My dad's like, it's embarrassing. It's over. Blah, blah, blah.

They got to fire Don Sweeney, the whole thing. And now it's 2-2. That's why we love the playoffs. Everything can flip in one weekend. But if I'm a Sixers fan, I'm still not trusting Harden. I'm sorry. I mean, tell about it.

My Kings after game three. Call my guys up. Let's take a break. We'll talk Suns-Dallas. Make every game feel like game seven on FanDuel Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Throughout the playoffs,

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Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, Sons of Abs. CP3, two straight crap games. 12 and 7, seven turnovers game three. Game four, 5.6 fouls, 23 minutes. And we are now 2-2. And the Mavs have a lot of momentum.

Dorian Finney-Smith has been the best wing in the series, which I would not have predicted. Luka, who didn't have an awesome game statistically, but speaks to what you talked about earlier where he just draws so much attention that I almost feel like they might have to do the Spurs-Steve Nash 2005 strategy

on him. And they got to take out the rest of the team. Let Luka have 42. I don't care. What I don't want... How many threes did they hit in that game? 24? The 24 threes can't happen again. That's what they need to figure out through the Suns. 20 of 44.

But you are the number one Chris Paul fan who's not actually a Phoenix fan or didn't root for his college. The breadcrumbs are being laid now for the Chris Paul-Neg legacy combo yet again. The 2-0 lead, now it's 2-2. Really horrible

game four, reminiscent of 2014 OKC. Mavs with some momentum. Are you worried? Well, of course I'm worried. I know what's on the line for both myself and Chris. So, there's that part of it. I think there's two different stories here. Okay. I say every year, but you can't fake desperate, right? You can't

fake desperate. So if you're up 2-0 and you're going to somebody else's place, I think Phoenix is the better basketball team, but you're not going to be as desperate if the other team has any kind of pride whatsoever. And Dallas proved a lot in just two games here. This is an incredibly prideful team, which I still don't think is as good as Phoenix. I just don't. They win the series. I'll be like, man, I can't believe Phoenix lost that. They were the better basketball team. What Dallas did in their intensity to start game three was like all-time stuff. Hard work effort fixes a lot of your problems. I don't think Phoenix did a great job in being ready for it. I mean, Reggie Bullock, what he was doing to Chris Paul, like I look at game three is like, I cannot defend the Chris

Paul thing from game three. He sucked. Bullock came out and it was almost like never let them come across half court settled and then run their stuff like on him immediately extend all the pressure out and it was also happening today i thought as well and there are a couple moments where i thought okay this is where you get it to ayton but here's the scary thing about he's just not always really consistent enough on those catches with some of that stuff while he's moving his hands are great around the rim but he's just not always a safe bet and honestly basketball isn't run that way now so So I thought they got the better of Chris Paul big time. You know, they just, seven turnovers in the first half. There's no defending it. I'm not,

today, he wasn't good also. I think three of the six fouls were a joke, but I also don't think that's why they lost because Finney Smith and then earlier Bertons, the stuff these guys are doing, Kleba, they're just spreading them out. They're hitting every single shot. I think Phoenix is doing a bad job on the ball and then they're over helping and they're just scrambling. And even though it got to what 82-78 and I go, oh, Phoenix

is going to figure this thing out. Dallas answered it every single time. I think that their effort going into game three has set a tone for this series. I didn't know that they were capable of. I love texting house about Bertans. I don't know if he was his least favorite wizard ever. I think it was Andre Blatch, but Bertans was definitely top three.

He was just completely unplayable. He was an all-time contract disaster. He's so mad all the time. He does. He's getting a little of the war on Tice, though. There's like a i would say a conflict with burton the conflict on burtons if there's a war on tice 20 are there 20 of 44 from three today i personally would um i would let luca have his 40

and i would just i just don't want those guys on the side. It's like, Finney Smith was eight for 12. It felt like all those were open. I didn't think this was an awesome series for the Mikael Bridges Defensive Player of the Year campaign. I think that one, that one sputtered a little.

The Aiton thing is really interesting to me because this is a series where if you're going to pay him, what, $120 million for four years? $110? What is he going to be as a restricted free agent? I kind of need that guy to kick some ass against this undermanned Mavs team because

I think the Mavs realize, like, okay, not the series for Dwight Powell. They realize that after two games, right? Got to go smaller. Can we get 30 minutes a game out of Kleber? Kleber's minutes have climbed every game. Put 34 today. So they're just like, this is our team.

We're going to have all shooters. And hopefully Aiton doesn't kill us. And Aiton has not killed them. So that was one thing. The Suns got a really good Booker game and it didn't matter. But the wings, like Bridges, six. Crowder, 15.

He was actually pretty good for Crowder. Cam Johnson, 11. And they were really going after him on defense. This is... I feel like this series is closer than you do, I think. Because Luka's the best player in the series. And I don't think the supporting cast of the Mavs is that far away from the supporting cast of the Suns.

I'm not there. By the way, I thought the Suns were the best team in the league. No, I'm just, to me, the fact that this is 2-2, I'm not shocked. I'm shocked that the Sixers are 2-2. I thought that series was a wrap. But Mavs, I'm not a shock. The Embiid factor, though, it's totally different. So I don't know why.

Did you really think? It's a completely different series. The Embiid factor, though, it's totally different. So I don't know why. I just thought he's coming back with a fractured orbital bone and this fucking Dr. Lecter mask, and he's got out of shape James Harden, and I just didn't think they would be able to scramble together and win two in three days. But the Mavs thing doesn't shock me. I didn't bet either game. I was like, I'm staying away from this.

I don't want to bet against the Mavs at home. I don't want to bet against Luka. Paul sucked in game three, but if you don't have Chris Paul for an entire second half in a game that still got to four points, I do think that that's a bit of a factor for why you may have lost. No, I didn't mean it got to four and that's a good sign.

I mean, you can't... Because Paul is always going to defer. You'll sit there and he'll have games and you're thinking like wait is he not into it and you're like no i mean he's not exactly a guy that's going to go out there and look for 20 shots every single time um i think to be fair there's there's no excuse for game three other than he just had a bad game so we see that in the playoffs though that's the classic it is road team up to nothing and they kind of fall asleep in the first half of. That's the classic. It is. Road team up 2-0, and they kind of fall asleep in the first half of Game 3,

and the game gets away from them. This one was different, though. Right. But to not have the option of fourth-quarter Chris Paul, you don't even have that option. And look, the second foul was Luka acting as if he had gotten

stabbed in the eye, and that was a flop. One of our best actors, one of our best NBAba actors now right luke ian brunson need a lot of a lot of credit for that but you know this wasn't about officiating it's finney smith hitting shots it's clebo who also holds up incredibly well defensively it's almost like a reminder every now and then when people like oh let's go get this guy you're like actually he does a really good job staying in front of you but i think between bullock

and how how intense dallas has been and then, look, I think Monty was maybe a little stubborn with the rotation that he's been used to for the best team in basketball all season long, where, you know, campaign, it's one thing to come in and fuck up. It's another thing to shoot the entire time. Yeah. He's won a nine in like 30 minutes in games three and four. And for whatever reason, Phoenix seemed to allow

some bad Luka matchups where as soon as he has the matchup he wants and then you have the spacing on top of it else, it's almost like, all right, we lost this possession before the shot is even up. So, I was thinking about them

versus the 2018 Rockets because that would be the blueprint for this Mavs team, right? And that 2018 Rockets won 65 games, came within a stone's throw beating that Warriors team, and maybe would have if Chris didn't get hurt. The Mavs obviously did not win 65 games. But from January on, I think they had one of the four best records.

So at least they had a track record of they put together. Dallas? Dallas. Since the trade deadline, they had the second best record behind Austin. But it was weird because their offensive defensive efficiency numbers would not match what you would think from that date on to have the second best record, but they did. So go ahead. Yeah. So I don't think it's that far fetched to say, all right, what are the similarities of those two teams? And you've talked about the ball dominant, how at some point you don't like it

in the playoffs. And I think I agree with you. But Luka in 2022, Harden in 2018, a lot of similarities. I think the Mavs play a much slower pace. They shoot,

you know, their perfect game is like a 101 to 94 type game. That was not the case for the Rockets. But you go through the rosters, you think Luka and Brunson were the top two for this team. 18 had Harden and CP3, but it wasn't really CP3.

It was like sidekick. I don't have the ball a lot, CP3. So the way they were using him was a little closer to Brunson. Yeah, they staggered him a ton, though. So it's still a better number two than anything Dallas has right now yeah but if you just look at statistically Brunson

how they're using him is pretty close to what CP3 was like 18-5-6 on that Rockets team right their next two guys are Finney Smith

and Bullock the Rockets had a reason Gordon it's pretty close right I'm going to say that might be a wash for two against two. I think I like Finney-Smith the most

out of those four guys. Then the next two is Kleba and Powell versus Tucker and Capella. And then you have Bertans and Dinwiddie versus Luke Mabamute, who got hurt in that playoffs, actually, and Gerald Green. Now, the league was, I think,

a little bit worse in 2018, but which team do you like more out of those two? That Houston team. But it's not as pronounced as I thought it was going to be. Did you feel this way three days ago? I like this Mavs team.

I did, but I just thought the Suns were a juggernaut. I thought that they were just going to roll and I thought they're going to roll through the West. Now some weird shit happened. Chris had the weird game three and then he got played 23 minutes tonight, but I don't know. I, I, I like this Mavs team. I like that they play defense. I like that they know who they are. I like that they have two scores and I I like the Luka piece of it. Who fucking knows? Did you see that stat today? Most points through 20 playoff games.

MJ 1, 718. Wilt 2, 705. Luka 3, 655. McAdoo 653. Kareem 616. Oscar 616. It's a pretty good company. I'm just not willing to be like, oh, well, Phoenix is going to roll over these guys. I think this is going to be a hard series. I think

it goes seven. I think they win. I'll say two things. I think Phoenix is the better basketball team, and I'm completely blown away and impressed by what Dallas just did these last two games. Me too. It isn't about the refs. I'm simply pointing out to not have Chris Paul. I think is it okay to say that's not a good thing for your

team to have him in game four? He sucked in game three. I've said it three times uh i'm so impressed with their intensity the adjustment i think to bring the pressure up instead of letting just somebody get settled into it which also means that you have to be ready for that it didn't feel like phoenix i don't know like how long are you going to keep having your your ball handlers get manhandled And I'm not saying because fouls were called, but be ready for it. Have something off of it. And they also figured out how to unlock Brunson in the last two games.

Because coming out of game two, it was like, man, this is what a brutal beat for Brunson. He goes from the Utah perimeter defense to this Phoenix team. But then they figured out how to get him in better space, and he got more aggressive. You know, he does that thing where he, it's a little like what Drew Holiday has been doing,

these kind of PowerPoint cards or power guards. They're in your face, they're putting their shoulder, they're doing this herky-jerky shit out of the 70s and he's made it work. I still, the Luka piece of this would scare the shit out of me if I'm Phoenix because I just had the best season of anybody. I'm the the Luka piece of this would scare the shit out of me if I'm Phoenix, because I just had the best season of anybody. I'm the best team in the league. And yet I don't want this to come

down to one game against him. Like I want to end this before game seven. I don't want to go to a game seven where now Luka is in the game and he might get hot for a quarter and all of a sudden I'm down eight with six minutes left and he's got 42. Yeah. The rest of the pieces, Dallas has had multiple guys show up in big spots in these last two games and it's felt like the exact opposite with Phoenix. Shannon doesn't look comfortable out there. We already talked about pain. You know, there's certain shots I expect to go in from Crowder a little bit later in the game. I don't expect it to go in. Aiton ends up with his numbers kind of, you know, 16 and 11 in game three, 14 and 11.

But, you know, there was a huge rebound possession there where they were fighting. Like, there were still, like, little teases, like Phoenix was going to figure this out and make it a one-poss possession game. There was a couple moments there where you're like, okay, is Phoenix going to settle this? And this is all without Paul because Booker was smart enough to initiate his contact and get some foul calls. And there was a rebound where I think Kleba came up with it in a sea of like three suns. And I don't know what J. Kidd, I don't know what the staff did, but

well, I can tell you some of the stuff that we've already covered, but I'm incredibly impressed with their resolve, which, again, I still think is them going up against a more talented team. Because even though Bridges is a guy who can get 20 or can get 4, I think it's really hard for anybody to deal with Luka on these backdowns, and Bridges just doesn't have the size. Almost no one's going to have the size mobility combination to consistently shut that down.

But, you know, one through seven, I don't know, Dallas figured out a way to play their roles better than Phoenix did. Is it fair to say Phoenix is still as good as we thought they were? I don't feel like, I don't think less of them after those two games. I still think it's a really, really good team.

I think they're the best team in the league. I still think somebody could beat them in a series, but I think they're the best team in the league. I think more of Dallas than I did. I think that's where I've landed. I think they've, their stock has risen for me the last two games. Because I didn't,

I didn't know how much of the last series was how bad Utah's perimeter defense was and just how kind of messed up Utah is as a team. But I think just getting this to 2-2, and now, you know, man, with Chris, this is, yet again, we're in this situation with him where this is a huge game for him, this Game 5. Two stinkers in a row, and this is a, all right, Chris Paul, let's go. Let's go, point guard.

This is one of those games. I fully expect him to be awesome in game five, just for the record. The only thing I'm worried about is how mad he might be between getting fouled out and then having this family in the stands. Something happened.

We don't know. Yeah, we don't know the details yet. Right. So if all that, is he going to be too mad in game five? Are you surprised Jason Kidd is this good of a coach? Because I am.

I think guys can learn. Because the first couple times through, people felt maybe a little outdated, a little stubborn. I thought he did a really good job putting together the staff. I know a couple of those guys are, not personally, not boys or something like that. But there were other people around the league being like, this guy's putting together a really good staff.

And so I think if you have not only the support, but then you to decide is the head guy, how to deal with all the different personalities. Now, I almost think that's as important as anything because there's a million guys on your staff, but how do you, I,

you know, didn't it feel like when he was in Milwaukee, there weren't like a ton of players upset. He left. And I think maybe he's changed. Same for Brooklyn. I don't feel, I don't feel like of players upset he left. And I think maybe he's changed that. Same for Brooklyn. I don't feel like he had good exits either place.

Yeah, and here it feels like there's a real... Because I bet Gianluca is in a blast to coach. Yeah. It seems like, I will say, it seems like he is completely bought in on this team. Just from reading the quotes that he has and the pieces I read and seeing the interviews and stuff. There's a real camaraderie with this team just for reading the quotes that he has and the pieces I read and seeing the

interviews and stuff. There's a real camaraderie with this team. I think having Porzingis not there anymore probably helps with that because you always had this Porzingis issue where Porzingis was supposed to be the star and that quickly flipped and they always had to kind of navigate that, navigate his, making sure he got enough shots, how to figure out how to play him, all that stuff. I still, the Kleber thing, we've been in this situation before with him when they load a lot of minutes on him. And I'll be interested to see if he can hold up for three more games.

But the way this is set up now, best two of three, Luka versus Chris, where just two unbelievable spots for both guys, right? If Luka can beat Phoenix he can get out of the West if Chris can hold up Dallas I think he gets out of the West I actually am starting to wonder if

the winner of this best two out of three this is probably same way I feel about Celtics Bucks I just feel like whoever wins Celtics Bucks that's who's making the finals and I think same thing for this. You've the Warriors without Peyton. I know we're going to talk about the Warriors in a second.

There's some stuff that really worries me about them. And I don't think Memphis is ready yet, personally. But this Phoenix-Dallas, the defense that these teams play and their scoring options in the last five, six minutes, I think these are the two best teams in the West now. It feels a little dismissive golden state, especially watching what kind of offensive show they put on a game three, uh,

I guess a good Memphis team. So I don't, I don't know why Memphis isn't ready. You know, why would you say that you want to save it? Yeah, let's save it. I have,

I have some thoughts on that. Okay. Take a break. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend that powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days.

And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,free days and the ability to reach further with access to over 1400 airport lounges worldwide redefine possible with business platinum that's the powerful backing of american express terms and conditions apply visit amex.ca business platinum all right memphis gold state you asked asked me why I thought Memphis wasn't ready. They played nine playoff games this year. They've been down by 10 plus in six of the nine playoff games in the second half. That makes me nervous.

I don't like teams that are always playing from behind, always having to have a run to catch up. I thought they easily could have lost the Minnesota series and I thought they got really lucky with just how immature and kind of dumb Minnesota was as a team. I thought Minnesota, there's a world where they just should have won that series in five or six.

And kudos to Memphis for having the, you know, the balls to keep fighting through. They're super athletic, the whole thing. I think they're more athletic, the whole thing. I think they're more athletic than this Golden State team. I just feel like they feel like they're a year away to me. And I know the Memphis fans are going to get mad. I know Chris Vernon's going to get mad.

I think they're faster. I think they're more athletic. But Jha's already hurt. Now, I know we're going to talk about that in a second. So it looks like he's going to miss game four. If they're going to be down 3-1 in this series, I just don't think they're good enough to win three in a row based on the history of the fact that they keep falling behind

in these games. This is not a team that's laying the smack down. They're pulling wins out when they have to. They easily could have lost game two. They could easily be down 3-0 in this series. I think, to me, they're fourth in the series. So I just, I think to me, they're fourth in the West. If I had to rank them,

that's fair. But I think because they're young, like there's always a sense of like, I, there's always like these, we play the results, right? So if Memphis doesn't win,

it's because they weren't ready. It's because they were young. And I'm going to share something I did on my podcast earlier. You know, we both listen to Eddie Johnson and just termini on NBA radio. I think you just call in randomly like, hey, Bill. I do. If I hear them, I'll just call in. And it was really interesting. Eddie Johnson was talking about, he was doing a Memphis game. I think it had to have been obviously Phoenix at Memphis, I believe is the story. And he was

talking up Memphis. And there was an NBA personnel guy that said, they're too young, celebrate too much, like full of themselves, that kind of thing. And that was going to come back to bite him. And I think he was saying that ahead of maybe game two. I don't know if it was ahead of game two or three, because I'm thinking like, look, that Memphis edge, that celebration, them being unapologetic, not waiting in line, fucking with LeBron this year.

I thought it was all real. It represents that city. For whatever reason, when the Grizzlies are good, it always feels like this is very Memphis. And I love it. I love that part of it. So, if it were an older team and they lose to Golden State, it'd be like, oh, they just lost. But since it's Memphis,

it's like, okay, let's add in all these other things. I think the biggest problem is you look at Game 3.'s add in all these other things. I think the biggest problem is you look at game three. Golden State has all these shot creators. They all are good shooters. It was a layup line at the rim defensively. They're out-rebounding Memphis with smaller lineups, even when Memphis plays Clark and Anderson and Tillman

in these combinations. It's not some massive free throw disparity thing. So it's all of these things that Golden State does well. They push and transition at the right time. And then it's Ja

just trying to put his cape on every night and save him. And as you touched on it with the Luka thing, it's the same thing about my isocentric basketball. Like it can be so much fun to watch, but I don't believe in it long term.

So I think that's more, I think the profile is they're too dependent on one guy right now. Who's not even going to be there for game four. I don't think it's because they're young. I don't think it's because they're not up for the moment. I just don't think they're, I don't know. You know,

I think golden state kind of reminded us what they're capable of in game three. That's fair. I think golden state was going to win game three. I just felt like that was going to be the outcome. Were you scared at all? Over the Brooks thing. I just felt like they were going to win.

I thought they would win that, and I thought Memphis had a really good chance to win game four. Now without Ja, I don't know who I trust on Memphis. What am I getting from Jaron Jackson? Imagine betting on that. You know how the Fando has those player props? How do you even do player getting from Jaron Jackson? Imagine betting on that. You know how the Fando has like those player props?

How do you even do player props for Jaron Jackson? You can tell him he's going to have six points or 29. I don't have no idea. It should be the Jaron Jackson boost. If you have the stones enough to throw him in a prop bet. Brandon Clark, who looks like the best offensive rebounder in the world in some games, and then the game three, he was like, what are you, one for four, put 17 minutes? You're going down the line.

I just don't know who I'm trusting. Now, Brooks could come in and be awesome. But I really think that Brooks, that whole play, even though the Warriors lost Peyton, and I think it's really damaging for them for round three and round four, I do think it lit a fire under the Warriors in a really crazy way. They were so motivated and so fired up. Not that they normally wouldn't be for a game three at home, but I think it gave them an edge that, I don't know,

sometimes that stuff, you can sit around and feel sorry for yourself or sometimes you could be fucking pissed and it's galvanizing. And I felt like it turned it from, oh, this cute Memphis team. I really admire these young guys too. Fuck this team. We got to beat these guys. Fuck them. We're now in the playoffs.

And there's an edge to the series now that Memphis has never been in a series like this. Golden State, the three of the four best guys, plus Looney, they've been in a bunch of these. They know how this goes now. Memphis has never been in this before. Brooks is going to go into game four and they're going to treat him like he is the most evil person who's ever walked the earth for two and a half hours. How's he going to handle it? Is it going to be too fired up? That's the thing. That's what I

mean by too young. There's these little stages that you have to hit and Memphis just hasn't. The game that they're going to play in Game 4, they have never been in a game like that. I'm just telling you. The crowd is going to be fucking out of their mind. You're right. You're right about all those things. But this is a Golden State team that felt like a mess

the entire second half. They held up all right defensively the beginning when Draymond was out, and then it was like, all right, this isn't happening. Well, how about the Kaminga start, which was both bold and a little desperate? He's 19. They're like, let's hope he has some athleticism. That's how much they wanted athleticism.

They started 19-year-old Kaminga. Yeah, he looked like 19-year-old Kaminga too, which is the opposite, by the the way of what's been so fascinating Kaminga's looked so settled all season long which is like anybody that watched him coming in the draft and then to think like this is the most calm best decision maker out of all the guys like this is crazy

but you know look maybe he got the better of him I actually kind of liked how he I shouldn't say I liked how he played in game three. He's at least aggressive. I liked that he was aware of, like, how frustrated he was by his own play. You know, if that, I don't know if that means anything. No, that makes sense.

Almost like he was holding himself accountable in the moment of making a bunch of different mistakes. But Golden State, through all that stuff, losing Steph the last month, okay, the clay part that was up and down where you'd be like, okay. And by the way, like, that's a big part of this series story as well like the clay we saw at the end of game two you're going man like are we gonna ever see it's like the hardened thing right it's and then he looked good in game three but he might look terrible in game four but he looked really good in game three hit a couple early shots he's that one footed three that i can't even believe he attempted but it actually like in the moment, like actually a decent shot.

It almost looked like it was going in right out of his hands. So having said that, Golden State still only finished three games behind Memphis. And yes, I understand Ja missed a lot of time, but we all know that story too, that what 20 and two without Ja. So it wasn't like they fell back to the pack.

So I like the reminder of who they are, but the Peyton loss is huge for whatever they project to be after this because they have three perimeter defenders that you know Steph is smart Clay is smart Poole is you know going to be overmatched at times and you have just a lot

of options to hunt there and to not even throw Peyton into that mix back there is a problem they were devastated. I think the part because they love that guy. I mean, they really genuinely love that guy. But I also, they know that

in the next round, they needed him. They need him for this round, obviously, but they also needed him for next round against Phoenix, if it's going to be Phoenix. Because now you're just, it sounds stupid, but now you're in the, let's outscore the other team mode. You're not going to get the defensive stops unless, big unless, we get Wiggins, game three Wiggins. If game three Wiggins, if that's the outcome of this

Peyton thing where it's like, dude, it has to be you. This has to be you. This has to be your time. We need angry Wiggins. We need post-Payton injury Wiggins. We need a new version of Wiggins. Can you reinvent yourself in some way? I thought he had a real fire to him. Now, we've seen him do this before

and I'm fully prepared to be let down by him. But if it's a little more aggro, how about aggro Wiggins? Can we call him that? If we get aggro Wiggins, decent sign for them. I don't know if aggro Wiggins. You're skeptical.

I am. You don't believe in aggro Wiggins. I'm watching most of his career and Yeah, I know. I never quite know what to expect. Well, I'll tell you this. I love the playoff bitterness. Here's the thing that worries me about the Warriors.

And this is, I think, another reason why I definitely have Phoenix above them. And them versus Dallas is, I think, a real argument. Draymond just not having any offensive anything anymore, I think, is becoming weird. Like, guess how many field goals he's attempted in the three games? I know he got kicked out of one of them. So he's played two and a half games. Eight?

Yeah, 11. 11? 11 field goals, five free throws, 18 assists, 13 turnovers. We know this as you keep playing the same team over and over again. You eventually want the other team to just, you're getting these reps and you're just like,

you know what's fun when we forced that team to do this, let's make them do that again. And it makes it let's over and over again, let's make them do that one thing that we know they don't want to do. Draymond is now, he's doing these, he's doing these cuts down the middle where you just know he's not it's almost like

what happened to Rondo remember when Rondo would slice down the middle and you just knew he was going to pass and it would be like if he just went straight he would get a layup

or a dunk but he wouldn't ever think to that and then teams started playing off him because they knew he didn't want to get fouled so they would like

jump into the passing lanes as he's driving right down the middle that's kind of what's starting to happen with Draymond. They're leaving him 10 feet open, and I don't know if it's going to be this series, but the right team in a playoff series is just going to force him to shoot,

and he doesn't want to. The layup part of it's totally true. I mean, he had a dump off. I don't know if it was, I think it might have been the loony earlier in the game where you're like, you just made it way harder because the two guys were with loony.

They didn't even defend you. You had to lay up, but we've seen enough of that with so many players now just going, Hey, wide open layup. Now throw it in the corner for three. Yeah. But that was a layup line in game three. It was so bad. It got so bad in the second half, the drives of the paint that I think Taylor was was was scrambling and then he probably put more size back out there that he didn't want to right because then those guys are left chasing everybody around but yeah maybe you'll see some kind of weird you know ignore draymond on all costs and if he hits a three or if he drives for a couple layups and has seven points in the fourth quarter and so be it. Because we have to figure out,

because even like Steph, like I think Steph is always somebody we have these expectations of, oh, is he going to get 30 or 40? Like Steph picks his spots. It is a little Chris Polish. You know, he didn't, the first shot he made was,

I think, that three off the curl at the end of the first quarter in game three. I hope I haven't said game four too many times. Getting confused. Right. So they're up 2-1. But then Curry will have six minutes where you're like, oh, he just ruined everything for the opponent.

Just ruined everything for us. So you're constantly freaked out about him. People make mistakes constantly in the half court just because of his impact. So maybe, yeah, maybe there'll be some weird creative rules. We're kind of at that point of all of these series where, you know, some coaches are really stubborn about it and others are like, look, we got nothing to lose. Let's get really creative.

So I think it's a good point. Milwaukee with Derek White did that the first couple games. They're just like, please shoot. We don't think you trust your offense. Please drive to the basket. Please shoot wide open threes. You can have what you want. And you could tell, Imei did his Duke from Rocky speech,

I think, in the log cabin for White. Because White was good in game three. White came out, was super physical, was driving to the basket, was shooting threes without hesitating, and was just like a different guy. I think Memphis is going to try to do that with Draymond. I think they're going to leave him 10 feet open

and try to Jedi mind trick him and see if he takes some shots. The Poole piece of this, where Poole is in the argument now for second best guy in the Warriors. I still think it's Draymond, but Poole's clearly the third best guy and now is at least in the running for second.

He has, in the playoffs, he's 57, 46, 88 are splits. It's fucking crazy. Cerruti wanted us to figure out which young guard we liked most out of Poole, Darius Garland, Hero, Maxie, Halliburton, and Lamello. If I had told you two months ago,

I would even have thrown Poole in that list. I think we would have been like, wow, Poole. It's impressive just to get invited to that group. But now I think he's in an argument for, if you wanted a guy in the playoffs, I think he at least has a candidacy, right? I hated this question

because Rudy was like, should we do this on the Sunday pod with Bill? And I go, it's so good, I don't want to do it. Yeah, it's too tasty. No, but it's hard. Pass it off.

Yeah, it's hard. Because once I get to third, I go, wait, would I really do that to Halliburton? But then I'm like, I think I would. You know,

I don't know why I'd go Garland first. I just would. Because I also feel like Garland. So you'd go Garland over LaMelo? Yeah. I think I would too.'d go Garland over LaMelo? Yeah. I think I would too.

Would you go Poole over LaMelo? I would. I think I would too. So then I guess it depends on how we feel about Halliburton. I know who's awesome. Nobody likes Halliburton more than you. I just, Lomelo just doesn't,

like Poole's not a good defensive player either, but he tries. I haven't seen any semblance of, of kind of defensive IQ from Lomelo yet. His, his lack of interest in, he's not interested. Yeah.

That's a perfect way to say it. He's not interested. It's like, would you like, would you like to try this oyster? I'm not interested. that's a perfect way to say it he's not interested it's like would you like would you like to try this oyster i'm not interested it's like you know what let me get extended on my rookie deal and then like maybe year four year five i'll get somebody at one of the outlets to write like lamello came in really focused on defense because that's what happened with like some of the young stars because yeah either they don't care they don't know they still freelance too much. I constantly said this. Defense is a lot about just knowing what your team is asking you to do and caring. It's not that hard to be average defensively. I really don't believe that.

There's a lot of young stars that just won't bother with it because they're already stars. Then there'll be this media push that'll come off of somewhere where it's like, hey, I want to just start telling everybody how awesome I am in defense. And then two months in on the broadcast, can he put so much time in working in the gym? Defensive assistant X. Really working together. A lot of shuffling.

Using football pads on him. Lamello, are you interested in this Crostini? I'm not interested. Are you interested in cutting over on this screen? No, not really. I'm going to go under it. I'm not talking about Darius Garland. Now, he gives a shit. Now, we're both in on him.

He gets it. I thought what Garland did, helping carry that team offensively, when it wasn't like gross carrying the offense, it was they didn't really have many options. I just think the whole makeup and the whole Garland package is my favorite. And as I answer this, I know there's a great chance of being incredibly wrong in two years going, I can't believe you picked that guy over that guy. That's how hard I think this question is.

Yeah, the Philly fans are upset we haven't even talked about Maxie. What would Poole be like if he was the number one option on a bad team um imagine him on the pistons and the jeremy grant spot it could be it could have been like a bradley beo wizard season it's like jordan pool's averaging 30 a game but see his life is easier with golden state but i've seen him blow by literally everybody that tries to square up with him that i don't think it's all just because of the gravity of Steph and a clay that you're worried about that night. He gets past everybody, Bill.

His first step, but he also has the Booker thing where when he's in the paint, he can do the pivot and pivot it back into a little 12-foot fall away. He does, and he's got the finishing package at the rim. It's outrageous. I can't believe

he's turned into this. I know it's like the sixth time we've talked about him on the podcast, but like he's demolishing the playoffs. He's 23 a game shooting 57%. He makes all the shots. There are all kinds of shots. They're like swordsman shots.

Think about this though. The Golden State influence on you as a player what drives me crazy about so many players that are really really good that we talk about as being the best of the game when you drive and you pass this to somebody else a lot of guys are done you know that's it i'm done now because it's hard to keep doing stuff. But Golden State, that is the core of what they do. Keep moving. Reposition yourself. Find a way to make yourself useful.

Play the full shot clock possession. Yep. Simple things. Not that many guys want to do it. And Poole had a play where I think he drove and then it ended up with Looney and he immediately went to the left corner i forget if it was off an offensive rebound or handoff because there was a bit of a scramble defensively and pulled was like no i'm gonna keep running and he went and repositioned himself and then looney at the

rims like oh perfect because i remember that play the defender stops yeah and pool was like no i'm gonna keep going and get myself in the corner and who knows what'll happen and all that is is a buy-in that somebody will find you because of their concepts and the stuff that kerr has done but it's hey if steph does it if clay does it of all these like tatum and brown do that now that was one of the things that's changed over the last five months no before you're right you're right just stop i don't think anybody i don't think anybody does it like those guys do yeah i agree yeah um all right i'm gonna give you my final rankings i just want to go on the board maybe you're gonna be a coward about it but i'm not i'm gonna go i'm gonna go out there

oh let's go I go Garland one. I'm going to go pool to Halliburton three Lamello for maxi five hero six. That's my list. Apologies. But by the way, I still own my property

on Halliburton Island. I don't want it. I don't want it. It's just that's how much I like pool. How is your fun doing overall your positions which one your fun like over here at my fund like we oh you're fun yeah we had we've made money on our kairi position for the most part we made money on our hardened position we probably kairi position's been incredible. Yeah. No, we started another fund. We didn't even know what it is. We just named it. I didn't even know how to short stuff before Kyrie went to the Nets. I'm like, I'm going to short this. The Ben Simmons,

we covered that. It was good. We were so early. We kept a short position that we didn't tell about the public on Trey Young. The premiums were brutal. They were brutal, but we wouldn't give up. We wouldn't give up.

I got to say, my fund got killed on Robert Williams, Time Lord. What's your fund called? I think it's called the BS Fund. We took a little hit. Robert Williams was one of the ones we were wrong on. I'm not saying we've been wrong on.

We're never wrong. We've had some losses. But some guys have been super disappointed by. No, our Chris Paul position, though, I mean, it's been volatile after hours. I'll tell you. We'll see how Monday opens. Went to a Clipper game where Brandon Boston was really good.

Threw some down on him. It wasn't a big position, though. No, we got a little ambitious on it. A little worried about it. Can we just do a quick 30 seconds on Brandon Boston? Because we were both there for that game. Yeah, I was ready to buy his basketball cards, the whole thing. And we were like, my God.

And then I went back and looked at the college stuff, and it was like, oh, he didn't hit any shots. Okay. So then I started researching a little bit more. I even made a call. I go, what's the story? And then somebody was like, you have no idea. This guy works so hard. I heard the same thing. Huge first guy at the gym. Everybody loves him. He's awesome. I'm like, yeah, he shot like in the thirties and the twenties in college though. But yeah, his wrist was messed up. And I'm thinking, wow, what a score for the Clippers. Bad wrist, guy dropped. He finished after 50 games.

He shot 38% from the floor, 31% from three. Wow, he's like 19, right? 20? I like him. Just turned 20. I'm not going to panic sell my stock on him yet, but I'm not definitely not. I'm not telling the investors about it.

No, but I don't think that your fund is, I don't think the health of your fund is directly related to Brandon Boston unless you did something irresponsible. Do you have any grizzlies? I have some conchar. You're trying to move some conchar paper? No, I have some conchar. I don't want to move it. I want to keep it. I'm a believer. I like conchar. I like Tillman, too. I had conchar and Tillman. I'm trying to think. We have some Craig Bracken stuff we've been calling Finland about.

Well, you went all in on Cade. Cade was one of your big positions. I had a lot on Mobley. I had a lot of Scotty. I really liked Scotie a lot too. Yeah, you did. You called the Scottie thing. That was good.

I can't believe we haven't talked about Celtics Bucks yet. Let's take a break. All right, so to put a bow on Warriors-Grizzlies, I think if Ja had played, that would have been one of the most fun playoff basketball games we've had in a while. It still might be really fun, but I think the Ja had played, that would have been one of the most fun playoff basketball games we've had in a while. It still might be really fun, but I think the Warriors are clearly in the driver's seat now.

With that said, it's a lot easier to come back down 3-1 when you have 5-7 at home. So I am not going to completely write off the Grizzlies until the series is over because they could easily be down 3-1. They win game five at home. Also go back to Golden State.

Who the fuck knows? Maybe Ja has 46 and all of a sudden we're going back to Memphis. I think Golden State's in a nice spot. The Peyton thing hurts them. Let's move to Celtics Bucks. All right. I was texting with Grandy about this.

Is game four the biggest game of the Tatum-Brown era? Over game 7 and 18 against the Cavs? Tatum's a baby deer in that game He's 19 years old, 20 years old Brown's been in the league 2 years Those guys aren't determining You could argue that that team's happy to be there in some ways but those guys are

kids at that point there's no real stakes they have their whole careers ahead the difference this time is you could argue the winner of this series is going to win the NBA title you could argue these are two of the best three teams in the league I think they are the defense and the level of play on both ends,

even though the shooting hasn't been great, but I think a lot of it has to do with just how fucking insane the defense and the coaching's been. If you get through this series, you have a legitimate chance to win the title. I think if the Celtics had gotten in the bubble in 2020, if they'd gotten by Miami, I don't think they would have beaten the Lakers. I think if the Celtics had gotten in the bubble in 2020, if they had gotten by Miami, I don't think they would have

beaten the Lakers. I think they could have thrown some punches. It could have been interesting, but the Lakers were probably going to win that series. No answer for AD. Yeah.

They have a real chance to win the title, and they left game three on the table. They blew it. And Tatum played one of the worst games of his career

and has a lot, I think, to make up for in this game, especially because people like me were throwing him in top five conversations. He's got a lot at stake. They're in Milwaukee. I think they have a better team without Middleton, and if they blow this game, it's going to be really, really, really, really disappointing.

So what was your answer? Is this it? I don't think... I always think Game 7 is going to be the biggest game you play. But I think for these two guys, the responsibilities they have, this is the biggest

we are now looking under the hood game that they've played as the two best guys on a team that has a chance to win the title. This specific game. You feel like they blew game three? I do. I do.

I think that game was sitting there. They had the ball with a minute left. Up one. Missed the three. Got the rebound. Missed another wide open three. Rebound goes up Grant's hands. They don't get a stop.

Come back down. Don't get it. They don't score. Come back down. Don't get it. They don't score. Come back down. Give up. All of a sudden, they're down three. Still somehow almost in overtime and they miss it by a split second. But when they were up one, I thought they were going to win. I was amazed they were in that position

because of the way the game played out. Because I thought they got back into it with all the free throws in the second quarter. And the game just comes to a screeching halt. And sometimes when another team is just better than you and i felt like milwaukee was better than them in game three and i still felt like boston with no middleton they don't really have an excuse to lose the series they just don't but a great yannis is capable like this is a disappointing loss with no middleton if they had lost with middleton no shame in that whatsoever we're talking about the defending champs that missed guys, and the Lopez factor

is a real problem. Some of the defensive numbers that I've cited before, it is just different because Lopez gives you different options. I talk about this constantly, but there's players you may not like in a certain matchup one night that the next night you'll be like, hey, look how this worked out.

Look how valuable he is. And Lopez, as a huge guy, stuck in the corner on offense, like screws up some of the stuff you want to do defensively too because you actually have to respect him. So I think that's been a big part of it, even though I don't think he did anything in game two. So to my point.

But Giannis, even in game two, what he did in the third quarter, in the loss, the level he gets at, his level of competitiveness, the level he plays at, how much he cares. There's just moments physically where it's nine people who are just watching somebody do something we've never seen before. Even without Middleton, I'm going, you know, I think Boston should win it without Middleton, but God, like Giannis, there's just a gap.

There's just a gap. As great as we could think Tatum was after the Brooklyn thing. He's not that guy, man. And it's, it's never like, Tatum's never going to be that guy. Couldn't agree more.

They have a better team. Giannis is the best player in the series. The best part in the league. Yeah. And he is so good. I was on the phone with my dad today and I was like, Dad, scariest Celtics playoff

opponent we've ever had as a player. We just went through it. Here's the list. 2022 Giannis. 2018 LeBron who was just out of control. I mean, he was basically like by himself, took them to the finals

and did not think we had any chance of stopping him. Same thing for 2012 LeBron. I feel like those are two different LeBrons. There's like that early 2010 LeBron and then like the power LeBron in the latter part of the decade. I'm going to tell you why 18, despite not being the same player as 2012,

because physically, you know, we're talking about peak LeBron in 2012. There still was a Boston arrogance about the 2012 version. Yeah. That wasn't there in 2018. 2018, it was sort of conceited. Yeah, I agree. I have 2018 ahead because it's weird because it was the same guy, but he just felt physically

more imposing in 2018. It felt like anytime he wanted, he could just go through five guys and get to the rim and get fouled, which is how I feel about Giannis now. I don't feel like, I feel like if Giannis is going to the basket, the refs have no idea how to call it. He's bouncing off dudes. Is it a charge? Is it a block?

Nobody's blocking his shot once he's within five feet of the rim. He can spin both ways. His footwork's amazing. His arms are 10 feet long and there's just no way to stop him. And his footwork just over the course of the last 12 months, I feel like has gotten better. Like you even go from round three last year to now, like some of the shit he's doing in the low post and the way he's dancing around people, I'm just in awe of. Anyway, 2012 LeBron. I threw 1988 Isaiah in there.

My dad vetoed it. He was like, no, it's a guard. You can always stop guards. It's not overpowering like Giannis is. I was like, great, but we couldn't guard Isaiah at all. 87 Magic, 85 Kareem, who just completely torched Paris

in the 85 finals. And then I have 82 Andrew Toney. What's interesting is I do not have Kobe in the 2008-2010 finals. He didn't shoot that well. He never felt like Giannis does in this series. Same thing for Jason Kidd, as good as he was in 02. Moses in 81, 22 in 15. I never felt like he was overpowering us.

Doc was great in 77 and 81, 82, 80, but not like this. I never felt like, hold on to your seats. This guy's destroying us. And then Wade was the only one in 09 where we had that series when they beat him 4-1. And Wade had the one awesome game, But Wade was just awesome that year. But really... Rondo. Rondo with the Bulls.

Or should it be Rondo again? No, not Rondo with the Bulls. Well, that... Rondo with the Bulls. Yeah, he got it for one game. It was a stop ball. But really, my dad and I were like... What about Ben Gordon, 2009?

He's honorable mention. There's some honorable mention guys like Dragic in 2020. But really, for me, my lifetime, it's Giannis and LeBron and Kareem are the three guys I can remember in a playoff series just being like, I don't have an answer for this.

If this guy wants to score, he's probably scoring. Did you mention Shaq 95? Yeah, but our team was so bad that year. It's almost like I didn't even feel... I guess you could say Shaq shack maybe but we had like eric montross no i know and i remember shack being like we closed the boston garden you're like dude it's barely xavier mcdaniel dino raja it hurt it stung a little here we thought we could steal it

but but anyway the honest thing, the physicality now is on the LeBron level. It is where LeBron got to, where it just feels like when he wants to get to the rim, he can get to the rim. All right, did you scream out loud, fuck yeah, when you saw Wilbon's tweet? What was it?

All right, let me pull it up because I don't want to get it wrong because I imagine there was I thought I would have thought you saw it. Does that mean you don't follow Mike Wilbon? No, I do follow Mike Wilbon. I just try not to be on Twitter during the Celtic games. I try not to be on Twitter in general during these games, but

essentially with those, I get too distracted. Okay. Giannis on his own merit, is likely the best player in the world now. I don't think there's any debate. I've conceded everything on that one now. But the notion that he should just be allowed

to bowl people over without offensive fouls being called is preposterous. Yeah, this has been a tough one for me because on the one hand, I'm a Celtics fan. I'm getting frustrated every time it feels like he bolts somebody over, it's a charge. And sometimes you just feel like you're watching Derrick Henry just trying to get through the line because even though there's eight guys on the line, if he could just get through them, he knows he's going to get it first down.

And I think it's impossible to call. It reminds me a lot of when Shaq was at his peak in 00 and 01 and 02 where it was just like, I don't know what the ref should do on some of these. Sometimes it seems like a charge. Other times it seems like they called it wrong. So you're in this constant battle of, all right, if he really wants

to get to the rim and he's going to put the refs in this situation over and over again, you're just terrified as a fan. On the other hand, I just love Yadis. It's really hard for me to root against him.

I think Matthew Johnson was like this for me and Doc were the two Doc Julius Irving not Doc Rivers where he's like the guys so I don't feel like he I feel like there's no ulterior motive with him I think he's completely authentic

I think he just does everything he can possibly do to try to win a game he knows he's a little undermanned without Middleton. And you watch the game, he played game three. I was just marveling at it as it was happening, even though I was going nuts. Does that make sense?

It does. I mean, it's a helpless feeling. It's an absolutely helpless feeling. And there's plenty of guys like when, when other guys pull their stuff, like at least with Giannis, I feel like it's all coming from like a man on man deal.

You know what I mean? Where he's not, he's getting away with things the way a lot of people get away with things, but it's not going to be with the call. And he's just super physical. And it's one of those things where if you don't call it right away and you let him do it in the first, second quarter and he gets to keep doing it, he's going to keep doing it. And he's going to do whatever it takes to win the game. This Milwaukee team, by the second half, I mean, Holiday took 18 shots in the second half. You know, they really didn't have a lot of answers. Wes Matthews isn't going to shoot.

Grayson Allen was 0-3 in that game. Lopez, they've been able to at least nullify him a little bit. Portis, they're fine with whatever he wants to do. It really came down to Holiday and Giannis over and over again. Those guys took 60 shots between them. And that's why you asked me, why do I feel like the Celtics let this slip away? They got an incredible Horford game.

I mean, that might've been one of the three best playoff games he's ever played for Boston. It was 22 and 16, played 39 minutes, five assists. And then they got a really good Jalen Brown game. It was 27 and 12. He got 14 from white. If you just told me those three things before the game,

I would have been like, we won. But then Tatum was four for 19 and was, I just, between him and Smart, who just doesn't seem healthy, Williams doesn't seem 100% healthy either. But the Tatum piece was the, that's the piece that has to be unlocked, which goes back to my original question.

I think this is a referendum game for him. I really want to see, this is a, let's look under the hood game. We had it against the Nets. That was a really nice matchup for them. He was ready for the matchup with Durant. He threw himself into it.

He was, he went into it thinking I have a, I have a bunch of games I've played against this guy already. I think I'm as good as him. I'm going to go at him on both ends. I'm going to be a better two-way player. I'm going to be able to score on him. I'm just going to be better than him.

And I don't know what he's thinking in this series. I can't tell. Matthews? Did you think Matthews would be able to do what he's doing in Tatum defensively? It doesn't make sense. No, it reminds me a little of Bullock. The first half there, the Dallas game, game three against Chris Paul.

We were like, wait, Chris Paul's going to be taken out by this guy? I'm like, I guess he is. You know, I guess, and again, I don't know the full number of possessions and how many different guys defending everybody, but.

Well, you saw the Tatum stat, right? Tatum was 0 for 10 when Matthews guarded him. That's not an accident at some point. It felt that way watching the game. He was in his jersey the whole game. He was super physical, and the refs weren't calling it. It also reminds me, too,

of the P.J. Tucker stuff last year because you brought up a really good point. Like, oh, well, P.J.'s great to have for Milwaukee because it counters Durant. And then you were like, does it, though? Like, he just Durant. In 48. That was a stretch a year ago

where I'm going, I don't want to hear about anybody better than Durant. And I still felt good about it when they were a one seed and he was in the MVP conversation dragging whatever version of the Nets that he had with him every night before he heard his MCL. I have now rethought that position, as I said earlier about the Giannis stuff.

But this is why teams do go get these guys. When you're like, wait, Wes Matthews is done. Wait, Matthews is done. Wait, P.J. Tucker is done. Wait, why are they twice as much? Wait, Trevor Ariza is done. Oh, no, he actually is done.

Sorry. Whoops. This doesn't always work. Game 48 for the Lakers regular season. And they were like, Trevor Ariza, there he is on the bench. He's cleared for two-on-one work. All right, cool. He is done. PJ Tucker, when he was still with Houston

after the Harden trade, there was a number where I think he had the worst plus-minus of the 380 players that qualified for it at the time. The worst. And the Wes Matthews part of this, and knowing that you have somebody out there that's going to fight a little bit. I don't think that Wes Matthews should be able to shut down a guy like

Tatum for an entire game, but that's going to fight a little bit. I don't think that Wes Matthews should be able to shut down a guy like Tatum for an entire game, but that's what happened. And just like anybody that goes, oh, all right. Fortunately, some guys, it takes them a full game to wake up and then be pissed about it for 48 hours and then come back. And if Tatum's the guy that I think we believe that he is, then you'd expect

a big game. I think if you're a competitive person, you're so mad about how you played, now you're going to take it to a level where you're like, all right, I have to be ready to go the entire time. And, you know, that was, I mean, I don't feel like it slipped away because I was surprised they were in a position to have a lead at the very end. But if you go possession by possession

towards the end, but the Giannis pivot in the paint was sick. Oh my God. And the drew shot, which, you know, there was contact there. The smart foul, I like that that's generally called on the floor now because I think that's what smart was actually trying to do was to get the three free throws, but that was

not as obvious as some of the other ones where you project out yourself backwards into the guy trying to come off the screen like we see with some other players even though smart's fully capable of doing all those things. It may have been, just because it's worth it, the best missed free throw on purpose I've ever seen. I feel like he's done that before.

That should be, this should be an all-star weekend competition where guys just try to miss free throws with eight rebounders and then dive in and get it. I would be more interested in that than some of the other stuff they've done. Listen, here's how good Giannis is. I'm flying back for game five. And I told my dad, my dad was like, you're not going to wait to see if we're down 3-1.

And I was like, I don't care. The series is incredible. I want to be in the building. I want to see Giannis when he's at the level he's at right now, because I think there's 12 to 15 guys in the history of basketball that have ever played as well as he's playing right now. And I want to see it in person because who knows if he's going to be like this next year.

All right. I want to ask you something with because who knows if he's going to be like this next year. All right. I want to ask you something with a timeline as we lead into it. Yeah. Giannis feels like he has the highest approval rating of any star in the NBA right now. Yeah, it's not even close. Maybe Anthony Edwards would be the only other one.

Who doesn't like Anthony Edwards? Okay. I think as much as you and I both love him, and by the way, both funds have done well with that as well. He's not at that level, so he's not part of the conversation. Because

Steph in the beginning, when it's like everybody loves Steph, give it some time. You'll see. It turned when the Chef Shoes came out in 2016 right after the Lake of Thousand Points of Light piece. All of a sudden, there was a step backlash. It was like, oh my God, we're here. 3-1 lead, a little bit of turnover in the corner.

Yeah. There was a real pro Durant time, and then that was trash. The Durant MVP in 2014 was the highest Durant approval rating. The speech about his mom. Yeah, everyone was all in. Just think if you were like, hey, guess what, everybody? More than 50% of you are going to hate this dude in like four years. Not even three. Now, what he did by going to Golden State, I understand it.

But the funny thing is that the Durant pivot on his Q rating actually bumped up Westbrook's to a level that we've never expected and certainly is not even close because it wasn't sustainable. It was like a car on the highway that was just going too fast. They're just like, we're going too fast! No! Okay, so we agree on Giannis

and I do think it's funny too because I think Embiid has a pretty high one other than Toronto. It's not even close to the Giannis. It isn't. If somebody was like, I hate Yana. This is always my test of this. As I was like, you know,

I fucking hate Yana. So I'd be like, what? I almost wouldn't know what to do. What do you hate? Why? I'd be so confused. Okay.

This guy, all he does is play as hard as he humanly can. He tries to get better every year and he handles himself with the most dignity probably of any superstar we've had in a while right um and he he tries hard all the time all the time all he does is he's just all he is is about trying to be good at basketball and trying to represent himself the best possible way um where do you think, how many people do you think

you would run into and say, I hate Luka? Oh, there'd be some, there's some Luka backlash already. They're coming in out of shape

a couple times now. I think that puts a target on you a little bit. And he's a bitch. He bitches at a lot of calls. Bitches the whole game. Yeah. He's definitely

very, very bitchy. So I think there's some Luka detractors out there. Bitches the whole game. Yeah. He's definitely very, very bitchy. So I think there's some Luka detractors out there. All right. Great lead in. Where are you with jaw right now? The knee thing, the deleted tweet a couple moments earlier. And this is, I would think, from a very strong jaw corner between the two of us. I think in the same week, Ringer banged out seven jaw love poems in a matter of days because it was just so much fun.

And look, game two was incredible. Playoff legacy. What did jaw do against the Warriors in game two? Oh, my God. He had 47. He scored every time down for like 10 straight possessions. But this is, this is what I say about all these guys. Just hang out, have a couple of playoffs disappointments, have us have, it's like my roommate theory. How many times have you lived with somebody where at the end of it, you were

like, man, the more I got to know you, the more I liked you. That list is shorter than the number of guys you're like, I live with him. Haven't talked in seven years. All right. That list is longer because the more exposure you have to other people, the more you usually end up liking them less, which is unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. The same thing happens with our NBA stars is you can be thinking, who's not going to like Anthony Edwards? I don't know. Give it three, four years. It's going to happen. I think Ja was on a trajectory of a Q rating that was off the charts,

maybe even non-threatened because Memphis is an arrival of that many teams. So it's not like he's even on the Lakers where there'd be some inherited, already a predisposition to hate the guy just because of the jersey that he has. But I thought the jaw thing was very weird this week. And I still really like him. But I thought the thing with Poole, I don't know what to make of that.

I have thoughts. I want yours. Unforced error. I think they, I think the Grizzlies were really rattled by how hard Kirk came at them and at Brooks. And the whole Warriors team and just how much they villainized the Brooks play.

Seems like it just, it put them on their heels. So then when Ja had his moment, they tried to do this. It's fine. It's the playoffs. This is what we talked about earlier. It's a young team. They're getting their reps and you got to go through the whole thing.

You're right. Is Jha's approval rating as sky high as it was four days ago? Probably not. But I don't think it's damaged. I thought it was weird though because

he's not going to be there for game four. All right. Is there any part of you that believes that Poole hurt his knee to the point where he's not available because he was, look, he was swiping at the ball, but then he also did go to kind of grab his leg, which I think was sort of a spastic, like, ah, I'm just grabbing at your leg. It wasn't one of the 150 worst things I've seen in the playoffs so far.

Like Wes Matthews diving into Derek White's knees. Oh my God. Was I think as bad as the Dylan Brooks play, but Derek White didn't get hurt. So that whatever, but man, I mean, he just full fledged.

It was like, who was the guy that took out Gronk's knees that time when Gronk blew out his knee, the Denver safety. I'm blanking. Ward, Turner Ward. Yeah.

Somebody like that. T.J. Ward. T.J. Ward. But it felt like that when the tight ends legs, somehow white didn't get really hurt, but man, I thought that, that to me, I thought was, didn't pass the smell test at all. The pool thing. I didn't even notice when it was happening.

They showed the replay. It seemed like he was just swiping for the ball. I didn't see it at all. Yeah. I don't think he like pool was, it was clear. He went and then grabbed at the knee. My question would be if that's enough to sprain a knee where you're not available for a game in two days. You probably had some stuff going already with the knee.

And that's the same thing he's had trouble with earlier in the season. So, you know. He deleted it. And I totally get being pissed off after a loss and all that stuff. You know, like when you're most emotional, especially when it's in front of everybody listen i have a tweet i got it i had an emotional tweet after the celtics loss it's upset about the deleting no i kept it wait why'd you you kept it what it's up there hey it happened i tweeted it what am i gonna pretend it didn't happen oh oh you you actually tweeted it okay yeah i thought it was in the drafts.

I thought the holiday push-off, not calling that, was just a clear push-off that they called the whole game. And then Smart was shooting and got fouled. They gave two free throws instead of three. That was fucking bullshit. There's no world where he wasn't shooting. That's where I would say they

were giving that to Drew because they didn't want to take it away from him there in those moments. And that's what that crew did. And where that's fine. If that's the way we, if that's the way we officiated basketball all the time, that's fine. But that's not how we do it.

They are letter by the law in any situation, all the fucking time. And this one time they're like, eh, let's pretend he wasn't shooting when he was fucking shooting, he was jumping and shooting. It's tough. Celtics, they blew the game when they're up one. They had the ball.

They had a chance to put it away. They didn't. They didn't get the stop. They, the Bucks took the game, but the Celtics could have stolen it back with that call. And I can't believe, I can't can't believe my favorite moment of the entire series is the third quarter of game two for Giannis when they lost. I talked about this on Thursday night on my pod. I'm sure you did too.

It's just like when somebody's bad and they can still be absolutely dominant and just put together 12 minutes of like, all right, I've been bad most of this game, but I'm just going to be awesome now. Like that's like the last level. That's a list of less than 20 guys in the history of the league.

Because that's what we want these guys to do every game, right? If you're a certain status, we're like, hey, take over, you know? That's why I always thought Kobe was brilliant in the execution of constantly portraying that it mattered to him

more than anybody else. So he could miss shots, but it was like, man, once he gets going, he wants it more than anybody out there. This guy just refuses to lose. It's all about winning.

Yeah, but he's not as good as some of these other guys. So, you know, uh, can I do a quick Tatum thing? Just really quick. Well,

of course you can. No, just, I just want to get this. I just want to get this I just want to get this off my chest if you want to be a top five guy you're going against a team that is awesome defensively

it's really good it's a high level defensive team that has Giannis and Holiday who are the two of the best defensive players in the league

I'm kicking myself for not voting Giannis first team all defense they're awesome the defense in this series is awesome. It's such a high level of basketball that it's almost like kind of breaking the series where it seems sloppier than it is, but it's really sloppy because all these guys are just in the right places, doing the right things, reading the situations perfectly. Tatum's got to figure it out. He's got to figure out like, all right, Wes Matthews is beating the shit out of me. I did this to Durant last round. How am I going to solve this? I've

got to out-physical him. I can't let him take me out of my game. I have to have the ball. I have to dribble better. I have to ball handle better. Half the time when I have the ball, it's like my fingers are covered in butter. And then it's like, you can't just be in the corner disappearing when it's not going well for you or yelling at the refs and not running back. Like you're one of the five best players in the league. Now you can't have another game like that. This is you've, you've passed all the checkpoints. You have to show up for this game. You have to figure it out if you're going to be a great player. And I think he has a chance to be a great

player and I want to see it in game four. This isn't like, I'm not doing like the Rocky Four pep talk. It's just like, great players respond from bad games with awesome games. That's usually how this league goes and this is how you know. And this is why

I led the segment this way. It's like, this is a look under the hood game. What's in your engine? You know, it's going to be really crazy crowd. Giannis is going to be out of his mind. Can you match it? How many top five guys we got so far? This playoffs.

Well, we had the three plus Luka. All right. So Giannis. Giannis, Jokic, and Bede, and Luka. There's four. And then Tatum and Booker were like right there in the five, six spots. Was Ja top five after game two? Ja is not better than top five for me. Not five after game two? Ja's not better than top five for me.

Not even after game two? You weren't like, man, this guy might be top five going into this year. When he scored 17 straight? Or whatever, 13 straight? I think he has the potential. But the thing that made Tatum special was the two-way stuff. And there were moments

especially in game three when he was one-on-one with Holiday, and Holiday would just score on him. What about Edwards Game 1, April 16th? Here's what else worries me for the Celts. Smart, white Pritchard, 13 and 54 combined. And the

smart we've seen since he got hurt in Game 1 is just not the same guy. And if his legs aren't right, his three-point shot was already a little bit iffy. But if you're just going, just look at the rosters. Who do I trust on each side? It's pretty even.

I think the Celts are slightly better, but Giannis is the best player, which makes this just an awesome series. Yeah, I mean, Smart's going to be there as far as he's going to have some three-point looks. It's going to be up to him to figure out the right one. So is Wes Matthews. So is Grayson Allen. In game three, you had Portis 1-4 from three, Grayson Allen 0-3, Matthews was

1-2, and Giannis was one for six. In general, they were nine for 34 and the Celtics were nine for 33. Both teams are really comfortable with the other team shooting threes because they've just so determined to take away the paint and the drives and the slashing kicks, all that stuff.

But I don't think they're going to get a Horford game like the one they got on Saturday. No. That was unbelievable, dude. That was unbelievable. I can't imagine that happening again. The part of Horford, too, was he kind of knew. Tatum's not giving us anything.

It's always interesting, the pecking order of the five guys that are out there offensively. Who understands, am I supposed to shoot or am I not supposed to shoot? More often than not, Horford's probably looking at at least three other guys that are supposed to be better offensive options than him. And then once he realized we need something, he was going quicker.

You know what I mean? He was far more assertive than we had seen him. A lot of times when he ends up with 14, 16 points, you're like, oh, that was a jumper here, a put back there, a couple couple free throws, some offensive rebounds. He was wide open on this thing where everybody helped or something. He was actually pushing the issue a little bit, which is even more impressive. I think it's because he understood just, hey, I got it rolling a little bit here. I'm not going to wait on anybody when normally he's been waiting all season, which is his pecking order.

Here's another thing with this series. Because now we're going Saturday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday. Not great for Al Horford. He's 35. It's year 15. They had to play him 39 minutes in this last game. Williams had to play 34. Giannis, it's unclear if he gets... Does he get tired? No, he gets tired in the first quarter

when he comes out and he's complete. Right, you're right. He's doing the heavy breathing thing. They sit him and they'll take him out quick. I think he has too much adrenaline. Well, I want it all. I want him to always play that way because I know he was exhausted

at the end of that third quarter that I can't stop thinking about. But then on the flip side, Holiday, the stuff he's doing in this series, I don't think is sustainable if we're playing every other day now. I mean, for him to take 30 shots, he's guarding everybody in the other team.

You're going to wear down over the course of a seven-game series. I don't know if Matthews can guard Tatum like that for 33 minutes a game every other night either. So look, Celtics, if they can somehow win this game and it becomes a best-of-three and they have two of the games at home and it can just be one of those things where it's like, just let's get to the game seven.

I don't think they can beat Giannis three times in a row. And that's why I think this is... Kate's calling any game before a game five a must win, but I can't imagine them falling behind 3-1 and then just beating Giannis with the level that he's at three games in a row. Seems far-fetched to me.

Yeah, doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I mean, unless, you know, sometimes we'll just see a team completely fall apart offensively, you know. I mean, it can happen. Shooting variants from Miami in the first two games to where they're at now. I mean, a lot of it's Embiid, but shooting from three and falling apart.

I mean, Dallas was a completely different team in the second half from three. They still ended up with a great number because the first number was so absurd. By the way, that could be Milwaukee in game four. They could hit, maybe they hit 17 threes in game four. Like, I wouldn't be shocked.

That's the thing. Yeah, and Boston was what, plus 17 threes made in game two? Well, the other thing- It was 20 to three? The other reason I felt like they let game three slip away was just the free throw disparity

of the 34 to 17 free throw attempts. I think part of that was just because Giannis had 12 free throws. I think he could have easily had 22 if they really wanted to just call everything. They were being pretty physical with him. But did it feel to you like a 34- 17 free throw game when you were watching it? Cause I just thought it was erratic all over the place. No,

that second quarter, man, like it was cause I'm watching that game going on. Milwaukee's going to win. You know, Tatum's a mess. And then when I looked at the free throw thing, I think Boston was 14 of 15 on free throws in the second quarter.

Right, because they got in the penalty early. Yeah, you're right. And I'll never forget Durant when they went in as Brooklyn, when Simmons watched that game, I don't know if you remember, and they played at Philly. Great outfit. Great outfit. One of his best. One of his top 30 I saw this year. I want the trading cards

with his outfit. The Prada lamb. That's the trading cards with his outfit. The Prada lamb. That's the one. It looked awesome. It's going to be tough to get that one. Maybe a piece of real lamb in there.

But Durant said, you know, we thought the free throw thing actually slowed everything down and took them out of their rhythm. So it sucks giving up all the free throws,

but it can also kind of shut a bunch of different things down. But for this case, you know, Boston got back into the game because of it. I had a better point, though, things down. But for this case, Boston got back into the game because of it. I had a better point, though, to make.

As much as I hate flopping, and I do, I hate to charge. It's still so favored towards the offensive player that you almost have to keep the charge. I'm less anti-charge than I used to be because, I mean, hell, the defender needs something. But I think the way I've noticed that it's called, although it's different depending on the crew, if Giannis is going to slam into you

or Luka is going to slam into you, you're going to fall the second time they initiate contact. Well, did you see the quote the referee, the referee told him that, if he's not going to fall, I'm not calling it. Said that. Which sucks because I don't want guys to fall. Grant Williams doesn't want to fall.

He wants to show he's as tough as Giannis. I mean, part of what the Celtics are doing is they're trying to show physically we can hold up to you. But if it's a matter of, you know, I'm not saying everybody has to turn to Kyle Lowry, but I would probably tell my guys, if you think the possession, like he's finishing the possession, you know, get in there on the first one. And the second bump, you get to fall down.

I mean, there's nothing you can fucking do with this guy. He's seven, one. He, he takes two steps. There's no shame in losing to him, but I will say this is an unbelievable opportunity for the Celtics.

It really is. If they can get through this series, I think they can get through anything. I think these are the two best defenses in the league and he's the best player in the league. And I know Middleton's not there, but having Smart at 80%, Williams at 70% doesn't even it

out, but it's not like the Celtics are 100% running on all cylinders either. So it's sitting there for them. We'll see. Game four. Tomorrow night, I think, is one of the... We've had some awesome basketball nights over the years, especially when it's like game sixes or game sevens,

but those two games for game fours are pretty outstanding. You know what you need to do for your next pod? What? When's the last time we had the eight teams? And granted, Phoenix getting pushed around for two games in Dallas. need to do for your next pod what when's the last time we had the eight teams and granted phoenix you know getting getting pushed around for two games in dallas yeah like that that made me go whoa like i didn't expect this because i thought it was teams any of the eight can make it when's the last time we had eight where you go is there a path i don't know if it's for all eight yeah

i don't memphis no job okay but still. Okay, but still, all right, seven? Yeah. I don't like to say I've never, I don't remember a time like this when we were at seven or eight and you're going, like, Philly's back in this. I feel like early 90s, early 90s, there were some moments

where it just felt like everybody was involved. Except they're all going to lose to Jordan. Yeah. I have two small things for you, and then we're going to go. The levels of playoff urgency. I'm going level one to level five is the highest. Level one is the happy to be there. We have a long, fun road ahead.

Kind of like 2018 Celtics. Sure. I think that's Memphis. OKC 2012. Yeah. Level two is the at least we have a built-in excuse. I think that's the Warriors OKC 2012. Yeah. Level two is the at least we have a built-in excuse. I think that's the Warriors in Philly

and Miami. All of them if they lose, they'd be like, yeah, that sucked to lose but and they could. What's Miami's excuse? Miami's like, ah, we've been hurt all year and we've never had our team and moving pieces and we just kind of never got settled. If Heat fans do that after being mad, nobody

liked them for six months, I would be disappointed. Level three is we got to defend our title. Let's fucking go. That's Milwaukee. Level four is the, holy shit, we can actually win a title.

Our window is right now. Let's not fuck this up. That's Boston. I think that's Dallas too. I felt that way with Dallas this weekend. They were like, holy shit, we can fucking win the title. I can't tell if I need to push back more of your Dallas IV that you're hooked up to before this pod started.

I just think Luka's the second best, third best, fourth best. He's in the top four after Giannis, somewhere in there. And then I think level, this is why I best, best, third best, fourth best. He's in the top four after Giannis. Somewhere in there. And then I think level, this is why I bring it up. Level five, Phoenix is the only one on this level.

It's the, we might not be back. We have to take this down. This, this is it. We have to fucking do this. Phoenix is the only team

that I think can 100% say that. I don't know. You got great ownership Sarver though think can 100% say that. I don't know. You got great ownership, Sarver, though. He'll steady the ship. Chris Paul's 37. Is he 37? I haven't heard that on any of the broadcasts.

Aiton, who knows if he's coming back. The West is going to be better next year. This is it. This is their fucking chance. No, this is it. This is it. There's no disagreement. They have the most chits in the game.

That's one thing. And then the other thing. We own the city. No, this is it. This is it. There's no disagreement. They have the most chits in the game. That's one thing. And then the other thing. We own the city. No, this is just for Dylan. Four officiating fixes. Just give me yay or nay on each one. Ready? Number one.

No more reviewing blocks and charges. We're done. They are no longer reviewable. Ref's call stays. That's it. They are no longer reviewable. Ref's call stays. That's it. Are you asking me? Yeah. Dude.

No more. I think if review were a brand, their mission statement would be taking even longer to confuse you. Blocks, charges, that's it. Call is the call. Yeah, because even when they replay it, they don't want to change it. Yeah. That's it. Call is the call. Yeah. Because even when they replay it,

they don't want to change it. Yeah. That's it. I don't want to see Steve Javy again, carrying water for the refs. Done. Out. Those are gone.

The ref discretion rule from international basketball. We're adding. If you do dumb shit, you break up a fast break. The refs need the autonomy. Just be like, I didn't like that free throw. And we just go.

We don't question it. It's not reviewed. It's up to the ref. Go. Possession arrow over jump balls. Possession arrow works. Possession arrow is undefeated. I don't want a jump ball where there's four seconds left

because the refs couldn't figure out who the ball was off of. And now we're at midcourt relying on a ref to throw the ball straight up. It's just like, let's make this a coin flip. There might be eight jump balls during the game, possession arrow. I got one better. Yeah. Jump ball goes to the defense. That's just defense?

It's just grandfathered in yeah now look possession arrow backup i hate the jump balls if it were a free-for-all and there was no one with possession go to possession arrow on that one but if you got a jump ball somebody's going up to the hoop you shouldn't get a chance to get the ball back like he tied you up and didn't foul you yeah why do you get the ball? I'm with you. I'm adding a flagrant three. We now have flagrant one, two, three.

One remains the same. Two is two shots plus the ball, but it's worth two fouls on the player. So the thing Draymond did, doesn't get kicked out. It's a double foul. You know how they had called the double foul

on like Smart and Brook Lopez? This is a double foul. It just counts for two fouls, the flagrant two. Flagrant three, you're kicked out of that game and the next. Automatic.

Flagrant four. Flagrant four, you're kicked out of the league. No, flagrant four is just they pull somebody aside and be like, we're so sick of your shit. You're getting away with it. Adam Silver comes down. You didn't hit anyone.

We're just fucking sick of you. But just you make it a bad product. Yeah. It's awful to watch. You complain. You complain before we're even giving you the foul call. I thought Draymond's thing last week was a flagrant one and a half and it's been bothering me for a week.

I didn't feel like it was quite a flagrant two. Brooks was like a flagrant three. It's like you need to go and you need to think about what you did and come back a game and a half from now. Maybe longer. We'll call it the Ben Simmons flagrant. Right. All right. We're wrapping up.

Any last things you want to hit? I've had something in my eye for three nights. Can't wait for night four. You have like a stye? No, just a piece of sand. Something. It's not a scratch cornea.

I've had that before. I might go to the hospital. Oh, by the way, I need to tease something if people are still listening. Nikki Glazer on the podcast. We're going to interview her. Hard hitting. Email

LifeAdvice if you want life advice on two different things. Being a stand-up comedian and relationships. I'm sure she's going to be really gentle. With Nikki Glazer. We're doing LifeAdvice with Nikki Glazer. I think she's really good. I like her. Yeah, she's terrific. Life really gentle. With Nikki Glaser. With Nikki Glaser. So we're doing life advice with Nikki Glaser. I think she's really good.

I like her. Yeah, she's terrific. So lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Huge segment. We know this in the industry, but we would have been way better to tease on my pod on Thursday and get all those emails in. We'll see.

See if we have to do that? Yeah, I'll see how many people are sticking around at the end of this. Again, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com if you want to be a comedian or you're a dude who just wants to... I think you're plugging stuff now. And you're going to be at the Laugh Shack on the 29th? Yeah, we're doing a five-minute open. And Ha Ha's on the 30th?

Chuckle Hut? That was always the go-to back in Boston radio. Yeah, Chuckle Hut. All right, Rosillo. We'll see what happens with the Celtics. I will see you. We're definitely... If Sunday is loaded, we'll see what happens with the Celtics. I will see you. We're definitely, if, if Sunday is loaded, we'll do a two-parter on Sunday.

Cause there's a possibility we'll have some game sevens on Sunday. And then we'll figure out if the Celtics bucks thing goes super crazy, we'll figure out maybe, maybe one of us pops on the other ones for something. Cause I really think this series is incredible. We will figure it out. Yeah, we'll figure it out. All right.

Good to see you. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton, as always. Thanks to Steve Cerutti and Dylan Berkey as well. Don't forget, new Rewatchables coming Monday night

with the Beverly Hills Cop. And we are breaking down winning time in the Prestige TV podcast tomorrow morning. See you on this feed on Tuesday.