The Bill Simmons Podcast - Harden-Simmons Trade Watch: Day 427, Plus More Deadline Buzz With Kevin O’Connor and Jackie MacMullan

Episode Date: February 7, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Jackie MacMullan and Kevin O’Connor to discuss the Ben Simmons–James Harden rumors as the February 10 trade deadline approaches. They also discuss Caris LeVert to the Cavaliers, whether the Pelicans should make a run at CJ McCollum, the surging Grizzlies, other trade predictions, and more. Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Jackie MacMullan and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, my name's Ben Simmons, not the one that quit on the 76ers, but the one who's going to be living in his parents' basement until he's 40. I want to tell you about Mamafuku Noodles. They've changed my life. Have you ever been hungry in the middle of the night, but only it's 2am and you ran out of Hot Pockets? Have you ever been home at 7pm and you realize no one's cooking for you, and you're on your own? Have you ever eaten great ramen and said, that was good, but man, I wish someone would make me great noodles. Well, Momofuku noodles is the ramen for you. I'm addicted to them just like the other Ben Simmons is addicted to missing free throws, passing up dunks, and quitting on his team. Get Momofuku noodles from my friend David Chang, wherever you buy your

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All of our football regulars, we're doing it on Tuesday. We're doing the big Super Bowl podcast. Rams, Bengals, all the props, everything. It's all happening on Tuesday because Thursday is going to be the NBA trade deadline so we are going all NBA trade deadline on Thursday, Tuesday

will be the football and on that Tuesday pod, lots of props, lots of fun fan duel stuff, same game parlay everything, everything you'd expect hopefully we'll actually win some of the bets this time but there you go. Coming up, Jackie McMullen, Kevin O'Connor, NBA. We're just going in.

We are going in. Let's do this. First, our friends taping this. It is 4.30 Pacific time. Jackie McMullen is here. Kevin O'Connor is here. Basketball stuff's heating up. Trade deadline is Thursday. We had a trade

today. There's a whole weekend of carding to anywhere rumors. KFC and I hopped on a green room on Friday, just batting around ideas. It seems like things have stagnated at least a little bit. I don't believe it. We're now at a little cat and mouse

game with Philly and Brooklyn trying to get to where they want to go in the deal. What have you heard, Jackie? What are you hearing? What whispers are you hearing there in the East Coast? Well, you know, we all thought it was just going to happen the off season. Then all of a sudden it shifted. I feel like in the last 48 hours, everything started ramping up again. And I don't really know why that is. Other than maybe Ben Simmons is like, yeah, I'll go there. I don't know. But something, Ben Simmons, everyone's like, well, he's not driving the train, but he kind of is.

Still hasn't played. He's losing all the money and it's obviously not phasing him the way it would phase the three of us, I would venture to guess. But Nash just said a few minutes ago, I think, nope, we're not trading James Harden you know he wants to be here he wants to grow with us I'm not sure I believe that but I love Steve Nash he's a wonderful Canadian I do I do not believe it I think this is all he's doing what he's supposed to do you know it's public negotiating is what it is, right? Yes. Yeah. KOC. Did Daryl play this Simmons thing actually weirdly well? It feels like Simmons has somehow gained value over the last couple of weeks by not playing and by us getting further and further away from his disastrous

Atlanta playoff series. Because now you're like Bradley Beal, who we'll talk about in a second. That also seems like a realistic trade, which it would not have been realistic last summer. So his whole strategy of, I don't like any of the trades that are being offered.

Let's just wait. The league changes. Situations change. You never know. I'm going to be waiting here when things change. Did it actually work or am I crazy?

I mean, it hasn't worked yet until the deal happens, but I've been saying for months he's playing this right. Why would you settle when you have a 25 year old two time all NBA player in Simmons? I mean, knock him for for some of his flaws that he has shoots with the wrong hand and everything else. But like he's a really good basketball player and he's 25 years old under contract. Why would he trade him for scraps when you can at least wait and play this out and see if by Thursday, James Harden walks into the Nets front offices

and like, yeah, I want out or I'm probably leaving this offseason. That to me is like what Daryl Morey has been waiting for is a player that's worth waiting for. And whether that was Lillard or Harden or Beal or somebody else, he was hoping that that opportunity would come up. And I mean, we'll see.

I think I think like Jackie said with Steve Nash, I don't believe what he said. I believe like this is just right now at a stage where this is public negotiating with anything that's going to be dropping from Shams. I mean, like Doc Rivers brought up how, you know, Shams is a clutch client. That was amazing. Yeah, I can't believe Doc actually said that. But like, I mean, that also is part of it too. Like that's part of the public negotiating. Oh, we don't care about, you know, that stuff that's out there.

Just like Steve Nash is going to do what he's doing. What's going to be interesting, what is like the big story that drops Tuesday afternoon from Woj or Shams that says Harden's meeting with the Nets to discuss his future. That's the news story I'm looking for. So here's what I heard. This is from the same source that has given me some good

intel over the last couple weeks that Brooklyn is open to it, but Curry has to be in the deal. And you could aggregate away, I don't care. But for them, Brooklyn is looking at this year because they have Durant. Durant, we assume, is going to be healthy pretty soon

and the East is wide open and they want a chance to win. And for them, it's like the trade that makes sense for us is Simmons and Curry for Harden. This is what I heard. I think that makes sense for a lot of reasons, except for Philly. I watched Philly today. I watched their whole game.

I like the team they have. And if I'm adding somebody, I'm not adding something that blows up what I've built over the last couple months here. Maxie, Curry, Embiid. Harris has been fine. But what they really need is, I think Bradley Beal, Jackie makes so much more sense from them because he just gets the cork mats minutes and some of the Danny Green minutes and they keep everything else that they have. So if on them, I can get Bradley Beal for Simmons and picks. That's the direction I'm going. But that James Harden, I get the Daryl and James Harden thing. I lived it. I went out there, did a cover piece for ESPN, the magazine when he was there and the whole

thing. But that was three, four years ago. You just mentioned three names. I would put Dame Lillard one, Badly Beale two, and James Harden a distant third in my interest to build my future. That's how I'd look at it. Well, so what we're hearing about Dame is that his stomach's pretty effed up.

Right. And I don't know if we see him this year and I haven't seen anybody come out. Chris Haynes is the one who has all the Dame stuff, right? So until Chris Haynes comes out and says, Dame's not playing this year, I'm going to assume we might see him again. But I think the word on the street is that,

you know, his abdomen stuff is really bad and he might not come back. I understand that. But I guess if I'm Daryl Morey or the person that has Ben Simmons and I'm trading him away, I'm not looking at just this year. And I get the logic because

Joel is playing at a level that we all knew he could do. It was just a question, would he ever be able to stay healthy long enough to do it? And now he's so healthy that they had to sit him against the Memphis Grizzlies because the deal was he played too many games in a row healthy, which, you know, just think about that for a minute. So I get the window being this year. Always try to win right away. And you and I learned that from watching that wonderful collection of Celtics players. We thought we're going to win multiple championships. Everyone's like, we'll give them time to settle. No, no, no, no. Win now. Win now because the whole world could collapse. A pandemic could happen and Kyrie Irving might not be able to play half his games. You know, crazy things happen. So I'm all about winning now, but here's the but. If I'm the Sixers,

I want something that's going to help me next year and the year after too. Not James Harden at $50 million a year after starting next season? Well, just look at the way James Harden's body of work, body, stressed on the body. And I'm not trying to body shame anyone, but his body is different.

He plays differently. He's not getting to the line. He's got a beer belly, Jackie. He has a beer belly. Okay. You're going to do it. Okay, good. Kev, so that's on you, man. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. So I just, man, I just wouldn't, I would take Badly Beale. I would take Dame Lillard, even with the bad stomach, and I'd take my chances for next year. Kev, this is what makes me nervous with Harden. I was going through all his numbers today. I did a lot of prep for this pod. I was really proud of myself. Harden's at 921 games, 137 playoff games, 36K minutes combined, which by the LeBron standards, it's like, oh, that's nothing. LeBron's over 60. But by normal star standards, this is usually where the wheels start to come off at least a little bit, right? If the conditioning's not totally there, if the body stuff's not totally there. And you look at like from 16 to 21, he was 31, nine and seven. This is for five years. 44% shooting, all that

stuff. This year, he's shooting 41%. The threes are down. That's the 33%. The free throw attempts down to eight. And the eye test is somebody that if he doesn't have the ball, he just stands there. Defensively, he's a liability. And, you know, he's able to cheat by the fact that he is so talented, he can kind of pick his spots and still get his stats. But, you know, it's been a pretty unhappy team to watch. I just, when I look at the basketball reference page and the points per game and free throw attempts and stuff like that is going down and the guys sit in the mid thirties, KFC, I just get nervous. I, especially for somebody who's going to expect

a giant extension this summer, if he goes to Philly andilly. Daryl's got to be really confident that he believes in this guy as a human being and as a competitor. The work ethic piece, you have to be all in because this is the kind of thing that gets you fired. I think in year three, year four of that contract, when Harden is 35, 36 years old, I would have legitimate concern about, at that point, what does he look like? What is a James Harden is 35, 36 years old, I would have legitimate concern about at that point, what does he look like? What is a James Harden at that point

where maybe he's already won a championship? But that's the point. It's the first year and the second year and the third year with him where you have Joel Embiid, still you hope healthy in the prime of his career, where this team is already really, really, really good with what they have around Embiid.

Adding Harden to that, regardless of his physical condition, regardless of the fact his numbers are down this season, I mean, I'm nervous about it down the line, but for now, that automatically makes the Sixers better. Automatically makes them better. If Curry's in the trade? I mean, it's different without Seth Curry in the trade. He's so important to their offense.

And I'd be a little bit surprised if Philly ended up giving up Seth Curry. But I like you, Bill. I have heard I have heard Brooklyn wants shooting at the wing position. I mean, that's out there a lot right now that they're looking for shooting. Does that mean Joe Harris isn't coming back? And they know it's something that hasn't been fully announced yet um considering the issues he's had with his rehab um but ultimately here for philadelphia i think harden is the clear the clear number one of the targets that are even remotely realistic right now lillard injured right now beal like total shell of what he's been the last two seasons i mean i really

loved bradley beal this year i don't like br Beal. He's, I mean, like talking about Harden's defense, it's been piss poor for Beal too. He's not good on that end. And maybe it's better playing with Joel Embiid, but I'll take the offensive, you know, juggernaut and Harden with what he could be with Embiid. Like that gets me excited. Yeah, but I think you put Beal somewhere else

with everything that's gone on. I mean, they started off so fast out of the gate. Then it all, it's all like what it's always been. You put them in a new environment with a guy like Embiid that's going to be like, you can score all you want, man. I just want to win. Like, this is just, this is my year.

Just come on, man, help me win. I just, I've seen it a thousand times. Players that you think are like, what the heck? And then they get to a new environment with a new coach, a new GM, new players, and they're completely rejuvenated on, almost on the spot. Yeah, I was watching them today

trying to, in my head, thinking which guy made more sense, right? Especially crunch time, where they had Curry and Maxie out there. Embiid was incredible again. He was just shredding Chicago. And then they were playing Niang and they were playing Harris.

So you think, okay, if let's take Beal, I guess Beal goes in the Niang spot, but he's playing really well. Like he hit the dagger three today. He's shooting 40% from three. He's got some size. So then you think,

well, he gets the Maxie spot. Maxie's been pretty good too. He's been great. You know, so he gets the Maxie spot Maxie's been pretty good too he's been great you know so he's he's taken somebody's spot Harden I would assume

Curry has to be in the deal he also has to be in the deal because they have to match up the salaries and stuff but I I gotta say if I was a Sixers fan

I'd be kind of tormented by the Harden piece of this because I can I can see it right it's so seductive such a sexy move oh James Harden piece of this because I can see it, right? It's so seductive. Such a sexy move. Oh, James Harden and Bede. On paper, we have two of the best 10 guys. I just don't know if I trust Harden. And Jackie, what do we make of Harden is unhappy within a year? And now they're saying, no, no, he's not unhappy. But we've, come on. This is beyond the

smoke stage. But you know what I'll say? I'm going to stick up for Harden now. Just to confuse our listeners. So the great thing about Harden when this all happened last year, he went there and I thought, I think you and I were like, I don't know how this is going to work. But he was the adult in the room. He just was. Everybody said it.

All the coaches, the players. I was on the road with them for that Milwaukee series when everything, when all the wheels fell off because Kyrie got hurt and everything. But everybody was telling me the same thing. James Harden's the one holding people accountable. He's the one that's pulling the young guys to the side. He doesn't care about scoring.

Remember last year? He's whipping the ball around. So I give James Harden props for that. And then now this year, he comes know, Durant's been hurt. That's nobody's fault. That happens. And then Kyrie's got this weird situation where he's in and he's out or he's out completely and he's in and he's out.

And so it's all falling on James Harden again. And that wasn't the deal. You know, that wasn't the deal because James Harden's not stupid. He knows he's getting older. He knows the miles are revving up. And he also knows of his own reputation, which is by the time you get to the playoffs, he's gassed. So he's like, well, that's not going to happen in Brooklyn because I'm going to have these two other guys. Well, guess what? He didn't have that. So I'm not sure he's I don't think he's like, I hate this place.

I want out. I don't think it's like that at all. I just think he's like, man, this just wasn't what I thought it was supposed to be. Right. Yeah. And he's also using the leverage of the moment too, where it's like, if this is just going to happen this summer, let's do it now. And Bede's playing the best and he's the healthiest out of any star on either team. I guess, and by the way, I'm sure that the strained hand and the strained hamstring have to just be killing him. I mean, you really have to feel bad for James Harden, Kev. That strained hand, man, it's tough. I mean, you really have to feel bad for James Harden. That strained hand, man. It's tough. I mean, Beal has his little injury right now

too that has him out. Yeah, what's his one? It's like a ligament sprain in his wrist. Yeah. It's not just the injuries either, though. It's the defensive effort by those guys, too. It's just horrific. I mean, watch Harden for the Nets. And it's like, remember when everybody criticized Harden for being one of. And it's like, remember when everybody criticized

Harden for being one of the worst defenders in all of the NBA? That's what it's been like this last month. When for a while, he's putting in effort, like Jackie said, like 100% right. Like when I was around the Nets, I was surprised how many people were saying, yeah, Harden is kind of the leader. He's our voice. He's the guy who sets the tone in practice and keeps the young players in line and communicates with them. It's like all positive stuff that you get from people who don't need to give it to you and i i think with harden he's in a place now assuming he does go through and at some point does talk to the nets and expresses that he wants out i think he's at a point like jackie said i mean kairi's playing half the games and kevin durant has a sprained MCL and we don't know when he'll actually be back.

There's naturally concern if he could re-injure. If you're Harden, you're looking at Joel Embiid and you're seeing that team with Seth Curry there. If he stays and everything else, maybe you do jump ship. He showed he could jump ship from Houston. Why not do it again? And remember, you cannot, cannot overplay how important Daryl Morey is in all of this. And Tad Brown. I don't know if you noticed, Tad Brown's with the Sixers now too.

That matters to James Harden. Those guys laid on the tracks for him. I mean, you talk to Daryl Morey about James Harden, you're on the phone with him, but you're wondering if there are tears in his eyes. It's like the way Doc Rivers used to talk about Kevin Garnett. He'd get, he'd get choked up every time he talked about him. And that's how much Daryl Morey feels for James Harden. So don't undersell how important that is to James too.

Yep. This is a guy that believed in him. My fear would, I was thinking about Chris Paul, you know, where that trade now is one of the most bizarre trades in the history of the league, the Westbrook trade, where Chris Paul seemed like it was kind of over for him. Not even as an all NBA guy, as an all star, as like an impact guy and that his body just couldn't hold up anymore in the history of the small point guards that that it was just he's moving in a different phase and he was a bad salary. And then he went plant based. There's been a ton of stories about this. He changed everything about what he was a bad salary. And then he went plant-based. There's been a ton of stories about this. He changed everything about what he was doing. And now if you watch him this year,

he looks as good as he looked in 2012. And it is all based on, he's like, he had a thing the other day, he's spending a million dollars on his body. He's following what LeBron did. And it was all stuff. It's all stuff he's been talking about really since before they made the trade, because there were stories about that he was doing this before they even did the Westbrook trade. Right. Right. I wonder with Harden for him to have another act where he's another top eight, top nine guy. I think it has to be something like that. I don't think he can do the old school 1980s, 1990s arc of an NBA player because I think it's going to, the arrow's going to keep pointing down. But if we read these stories this summer by whoever, and it's like, James Harden, he's only eating plants,

best shape of his life, bought a crowd chamber for his basement, and it's like that kind of stuff. You'd be like, oh my God, Philly's got him and Embiid? But who knows i don't know what drives that guy i can't figure it out i don't think any of us can figure it out right and by the way don't forget what joel and beat did to become who he is now same kind of

stuff he loved shirley temples and that wasn't a joke like he would drink five or six of them at a pop right they're like they're like 280 calories a pop or something crazy. He did the same thing. He was tired of people. When he didn't make the all-NBA team, he was in the delivery room with his, I think they were married, if not fiance at the time, wife at the time, having their first child. And he looked down at his phone. He's like, oh, I didn't make all-NBA. And then his first child is born. And he's like mad. And sometimes it takes a hit to your, your, your ego, if you will. And I think some of that contributed to Chris Paul as well. I think the best thing that ever happened to Chris Paul and people forget this is he had that year waylaid in Oklahoma city

where they were, they wanted to protect his body. They wanted to protect him. They wanted him to mentor shade Gilgis Alexander, which he did. He mentored a lot of those guys. And, uh, and you know don't want you to play back-to-backs. He's like, screw that. I'm playing. But that was a bit of a humbling year, I think, because he was a little bit out of the limelight, a little bit out of the spotlight. But they made a deal, he and Sam Preston. You do this for me. You help my young team. I'm going to take you in. I'm going to make you feel like you should, like you are an all-star and that's how we're going to appreciate you. And then I promise you, I'll get you somewhere good. That year was really important, I think, for Chris Paul.

Well, I don't know if Harden has it in him. I don't know either. I don't know James Harden that well. What we know is if Philly can turn Ben Simmons, a guy who currently does not play into James Harden, even if Curry has to be in that deal,

um, like you'll run any statistical simulation and they're going to be better. I love the way Curry and Embiid play together. Um, I just think, I think they have real chemistry. I think that's really hard to find with a big guy. I don't think Embiid's,

can't see Embiid's not like... I wouldn't call him the easiest guy to play with, but I think Curry has really figured out how to play with him. Maxey's kind of comes and goes. I don't know. I mean, J.J. Redick had great chemistry with Embiid when he was there in Philadelphia. I mean, maybe

it's like shooters that do well with Embiid. Those little handoffs that he does and then they go around. Exactly. Those elbow actions because Embiid. Those little handoffs that he does, and then they go around. Exactly. Those elbow actions, because Embiid can do anything off the dribble if they're overplaying on that to stop the shot. I mean, it's over with Embiid.

Jackie, when you were talking, I was just thinking, does Ben Simmons have that in him? If he goes to Brooklyn? See, I think Ben Simmons is a perfect fit in Brooklyn. Yeah. Perfect. If I'm the Brooklyn Netsets and I get Ben Simmons for James Harden, I am throwing a very big party because I don't care about the luxury tax. I could care less. And Ben Simmons has been sitting there all this time. And you're going to say to him, look, you don't want to shoot a lot. Awesome. We have two guys

that really, really love to shoot. We don't care if you shoot at all. What we'd like you to do is play like defensive player of the year caliber defense, which by the way, Ben Simmons has done every year since he's come into the league. And, but he never gets, I still don't think he gets enough credit for it. And we want you to take the ball and transition and go downhill and dare people to stop you because that's when he's at his best. Now people will follow him and make him go to the free throw line. If I were the Nets, the only thing I would say to him is, hey, how about if we just at least work on the free throw shooting?

I just think Ben Simmons has been sitting there. He has been getting mental health counseling, not from the Nets, from his own people. I spent a lot of time with Ben Simmons before the pandemic, working on a story that took me quite a bit of time, so I was around him a lot. I do think he has it in him. And I know, you know,

I don't agree with anything he's done this past year. I don't think it's a good look. I don't think when you're under contract, you should ever do that to a team. But I think in the right situation, like I always said to him, like I was always saying to guys the other day, some GM I was talking to the other day,

like he's what the Celtics need. Imagine if he was on the Celtics and you didn't have to give up Jalen Brown for him. What do you mean? We're going to the finals. It's red hot, Jackie. What are you talking about? Oh, sorry. I missed that memo. What are you talking about? Teams never look better. We're going to take a quick break. I'm going to talk about Simmons more. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or

run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend to powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days. And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. All right. Couple leftover Philly things. So KOC, we talked about this a little on Friday.

Are we positive Harden and Embiid make sense together? Even though like, of course, if you can get two of the best 10 to 12 to 15 guys in the league, you want them on the same team. But stylistically, are you 100% on that as a fit? Yes, and I want it badly. I think Harden has never played with a big like Embiid

and Embiid has never played with anybody who can create in the pick and roll half as good as James Harden can. I mean, with his shooting ability, get to the basket, draw fouls, whatever. I just get excited about the idea of Joel Embiid being paired with him. It's like, this is going to take buy-in

for sure, but I'm all in. Jackie. I'm not saying... Oh, go. You go on that. I had a different question for you, but you go. Well, good. I'd rather answer a different question. Okay. I'm not... I'm not saying

there was tampering with this Philly-hearted thing. Okay. We're not accusing anyone of anything. Nope. We're all mature adults. We know how the league works.

We know that there's third parties. How's that investigation going, by the way, for the free agency? How's that investigation going? We know how the league works. We know that there's mutual friends

and connections and... Meek Mill. Yeah, Meek Mill's there. Who knows? All of a sudden, there was a lot of smoke. That smoke doesn't come out of nowhere. If you're Philly

and there's some smoke and now Beal is potentially involved and Embiid is pushing for Beal over Harden potentially, but you already went down the road with Philly. Can you even back off at this point? Once you open whatever Pandora's box got open, do you just have to see it all the way through? Darryl Morey, we're talking about here. Yeah. Darryl Morey, he's going to do whatever's best

for his team. And if he hurt your feeling, oh, well, come on now. You know that. All right. Backup question of that. Who was madder at Daryl Morey than the Nets and Joe Sy? There was always that thing about how Daryl was banned from the Nets-Sixers game,

which was a whole thing two years ago. But it's a thing that actually happened. Absolute nonsense. And then you have who knows how Harden all of a sudden became seduced by the idea of playing

with Philly again. Is it possible the Nets just go, F you? We're not trading you? Yeah, we'll trade them, but you got to give us Simmons, Curry and give us three firsts. And that'll be the trade. You give us 125 cents a dollar, some crazy thing. Or we'll

just roll with what we have. Yeah, and then they'll say, okay, yeah, fine. And then Harden will say, hey, I wanted to go there, so screw you. I'm walking on you in this summer. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And that's why Brooklyn needs to be careful here.

Okay. They need to be careful. Yep. KOC, you get to choose. Brooklyn is either the worst Ben Simmons team or the best Ben Simmons team. If I'm like Rich Paul on Clutch Sports, it's top of my list.

Top of my list. Every team in the NBA for Ben Simmons. Top of the list? Okay. Yeah. You would rather have him in the limelight on a playoff team that's in the news 12 months a year over just going to Indiana

and just, I'm out of the limelight, I'm just rebuilding my career. I mean, he's in the limelight, but he's underneath the shadow of Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. Those are the guys that are going to get the majority of the credit and the blame, but he's still in a big market. It's an ideal basketball situation.

Ben Simmons setting screens for Kyrie Irving. Ben Simmons creating mismatches with Kevin Durant. Ability to alleviate the pressure on those guys and transition, the defensive anchor that he could be on that team. They switch screens in the top five rate in the NBA. This is a switching defense.

Ben Simmons is a switching defensive player. It's a perfect fit on defense. It's a perfect fit on offense for him specifically. I mean, the issue with Ben Simmons has long been his fit. It's always been a little awkward with Joel and Labide, but it's worked. But fit is an issue because of his limitations.

It's not a concern in Brooklyn. This is a basketball dream for him and Clutch. They should be doing everything they can, leaking to every reporter that they can to get this to actually happen. So yes, it's a great fit. Jack, I think I agree with KOC.

I actually think this is, as a basketball yes, it's a great fit. Jackie, I think I agree with KFC. I actually think this is as a basketball situation, even though there's pressure and they're going to be in big playoff games. Probably a perfect fit for him. Yeah, because the pressure isn't going to be for him

to shoot that shot because no one's going to be looking to him to do that. Now, the only thing I would say that I do see as maybe a problem at times is Ben Simmons fancies himself as a point guard. I think he'd be an excellent point guard, kind of plays like one. So the only thing that I

could see that might be problematic is that Kyrie Irving needs the ball in his hands. And maybe Ben Simmons doesn't get his hands on the ball as much as you would like to again, you know, in transition, because that's really, I mean, Kyrie's pretty good in transition too. So that may be the only thing I would give pause to, but I'm with Kevin here. I mean, if I'm the Nets, I like it better than what I have now. Now here's the caveat. Here's the caveat. We don't know where Ben Simmons's head is at. We really don't because none of us have talked to him. I don't know how serious his mental health issues are or were. I think there's different kinds of mental health issues. I think some of it for him goes all the way back. And when I did that story on him, I was just astonished to listen to his high school coach say, he can either be a very

good player the rest of his life or just get in the gym and accept being a 32% free-throw shooter and get a three-point shooter and get it over with and just be like everybody else and hit, you know, take five a game and make one or two of as you guys know, mental health covers a long, long range of things. And so I don't know exactly what Ben Simmons is wrangling with here. Well, you know what's the craziest piece of that Ramona story to me? Which had some nuggets in there. The fact that he was mad that Embiid blamed him for the last playoff series

because he didn't blame Embiid for the Toronto series. And I was like, wait a second. Embiid was like dominant in that Toronto series. Like the only reason they lost was they didn't have anybody to put in when Embiid needed to rest. So you know what my theory on that too is, I think if everybody had just let Ben and Embiid alone, they would have been fine. It's all the outside voices in both camps, the families, the agents. They so often create the friction where if you just left the two players alone, they'd be fine. I really think Ben and Joel were, they weren't best friends, but they both wanted to win and they were going to make it work. It's everybody else that got involved that made that thing that created so much static for them. Yeah. I miss the old days when Bird and McHale didn't get along, but really they were the only two that knew about it. And it was just all passive aggressive, stupid stuff, but you didn't have 20 other people, 10 from each side. I think the Ben Simmons, like the wide,

between the family, which has been pretty rocky as far as NBA family goes, pretty, there's been a lot of drama on that side and then clutch and I'm sure that hasn't helped. KOC,

anything to add on that before we move to the next one? I mean, I think the only thing I'd add to that is I remember a couple years ago, someone in, you know,

Simmons' circle said, we view him as like a LeBron. Like you said, he wants to be a point guard. He fancies himself as a point guard. That's like the only area for pause with him in Brooklyn. But I think he would accept and embrace after this year that he's had personally. And then maybe in three years when that contract is up, who knows, Kyrie might not be there anymore,

and he might get to be the full-time point guard. Kyrie might not be there in a year, Kevin. Kyrie might not be there in a year. Kyrie, that may not be in America. I mean, he might be playing in Greece. Who knows what that did? He might pull a Chappelle and just disappear for a while. Next question. KOC.

Does KD regret signing an extension? I would if I was Kevin Durant in that situation. Yeah. Because he was the first one, right? And then you assume, well, then he'll take care of the other two. And here we go. We're going to roll with this. But the other two are not taken care of.

And it's a little bit similar to an OKC. He signed the five-year extension. If you remember, 2011, uh, 2010, right? It was the same summer as, uh, as LeBron.

And it didn't have the out for the fifth year. And he was just like a mall in for half a decade. And I'm sure he regretted that at some point over the course of that five years, especially after they, they traded Harden. Um, this time around,

I think he signed the extension assuming it would be the first domino and now there's no other dominoes. So any thoughts on that one, Jackie? I don't think Kevin Durant thinks the way you do. I think Kevin Durant's like, you know what? This is where I want to be. I made a commitment to them.

I want my word to be good. I think he's a man of his word in many ways. I really do. And I think Kevin word to be good. I think he's a man of his word in many ways. I really do. And I think Kevin Durant's good enough and confident enough that he's probably like, bring someone else and I'll win with them too. I think that's the right answer. Next question. Jackie, is Steve Nash cursed? And do we need to have an exorcism for Steve Nash? Do we have to hire a priest with like holding a basketball and it's like a conjuring movie? It's not Steve Nash. I've had two different

coaches who I adore say to me, it's the curse of Kenny Atkinson because they did Kenny Atkinson wrong. And he's one of the nicest guys in the league and one of the most popular guys and one of the most hardworking guys. And I think everybody's like, it's the curse of Kenny Atkinson, not the curse of Steve Nash. Steve Nash didn't do anything wrong. In fact, Steve Nash should have been coach of the year last year for juggling all the personalities and situations that he did last year before it all. I don't think you're thinking this one through. Think of all the crazy shit that happened to him on the Suns. I know. And then think of he goes to the Lakers and they're on the cover of SI

and it's like, oh, and it's like a disaster. Yeah, but Steve Nash is everything that's right with the world. So I can't.

I'm with you. He's my guy. I just think we need to have an exorcism for him. Like, think about the Boston series last year with KD

and Kyrie and Harden and they go on like, what was that one run where it was like, ah, the Celts are frisky today. And then Brooklyn scores like 40 points in a row. And we're like, oh my God. And it's just like the fact that this could be done in less than a year, Kev, I think is insane. I actually think if Harden gets traded this week,

this is one of the most insane NBA stories we've ever had. Going from his tank job in Houston to then it's to Brooklyn. And here we go, the new big three. Oh my God. And I saw a thing today that Westbrook, LeBron, and Davis have now played as many games together as Harden, Durant, and Kyrie, which seems impossible. That's wild.

But KFC, this is insanity. Yeah, and it could even get crazier. Imagine if the DLF actually happens in that first game where the Nets are playing in Philadelphia. You got Ben Simmons, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant rolling up. Second round, third round of the playoffs.

I'm fired up even just at the thought of it. Like, here's my question. If Ben Simmons gets traded, does he play right away? Is he miraculously ready to play? I don't know. I don't know. I'm asking. Is that a couple-week ramp-up?

I wonder if that ramp-up's begun already. Who knows? Right. I would think. You'd think at least two weeks. What if Ben Simmons ends up in Sacramento after all this? Indiana. I mean, we'll talk about that Indiana trade in a second.

But Indiana is in fire sale mode, apparently, for what they got for Levert. I know. Now I'm expecting. That was crazy. Who knows what's next for them? Blame Pykev. Harden, Kyrie, other factors. This Brooklyn mess, which they've now lost eight straight.

I want to default to blaming Kyrie because I do feel like this is now three straight franchises that we've seen complete dysfunction. At some point, we have to start looking his way at least a little bit. I think that's fair. But I don't know if Harden has, he could have shut down the trade rumors two weeks ago and it could have been a dead story right away.

He didn't. And, you know, the team went in the funk right away. So Blaine Pye, who would you go with? I mean, like I think Kyrie being a half,

a part-time player by default um but more than anything else i think it's just overall circumstances for the nets it's just been too many guys have gotten hurt in addition to kairi being you know in the situation that he's in because of the mandate in new york so i mean it's just really overall circumstances for the who could have predicted all of this to happen all at the same time? Yeah, I'd go Durant. Durant's injury, which just allowed this to unravel.

Yeah, definitely. And then I would go Kyrie, who, you know, it's another year where it's a super dysfunctional team and he's at the forefront of it. And this is now, I don't know how many years we've seen this. Jackie, what would you say? Well, if we can take the blame pie back a bit,

shouldn't the Nets as a whole take a certain part of the blame for just making up their minds that like, all right, we're going to take on all these guys and they're going to tell us how it's going to go and we're going to follow it. You know, so they, you know, DeAndre Jordan has to be part of the deal. Right. So no, look, every GM in the league would do that. I would do that. Sure. DeAndre, by the way, DeAndre Jordan's a really good guy.

He's a good guy in the locker room. Yeah. You know, and he fell off the cliff really fast. So, but anyway, so we'll agree that we'll take that on. But, you know, then you got to trade Jared Allen, who should be making his first all-star appearance and isn't. Maybe he will as a replacement. Agreed.

But anyway, so I think, you talk about the dysfunction. I think they invited the dysfunction by some of the decisions they made that were dictated by the guys who were coming to that team. So I'm going to slip a little of that blame in there.

That's a good one. And the Jordan thing, it's basically a two-headed mistake, right? Because one, when they gave him that contract, people were like, wait, what? He hasn't been good in two years. What is going on there? And then two,

he should have just been thrown in that trade instead of the Jared Allen because they had to get rid of Garrett Temple's contract and that's why Allen had to be in it. It just should have been Jordan, but those guys were trying to stay loyal to Jordan, but it's a huge mistake. But the revisionist history on that as well, Jared Allen was going to be a free agent and we couldn't afford to pay him the $100 million that he got, that he ended up getting. That's insane.

I mean, at the very least, you could sign and trade him. He's an asset. And then, why isn't Houston putting just Jared Allen in their pocket to figure it out? They end up getting Levert, turning him to Oladipo. They get Oladipo for like a month, a month and a half, flip him to Miami. And then if you look at what they got back from Miami, they basically got zero for him. So they take whatever the assets were in that trade that were the actual players

and got zero, which brings me to my next question because I still, I'd like to go on the record. I still hate what Houston got for James Harden. You could argue it's actually the more that time goes here in a year. Um, and with Harden, the arrow may be pointing down a tiny bit. Maybe it was a good trade. I still don't like the trade. Here's what they got. They got first round picks in 22, 24, and 26. Right. So one of those picks is this year. We know that's not going to be a top 10 pick. They got swaps in 21, which is moot, 23, 25, and 27. And then they got the ability to dump Allen and Temple to get a late first from the Cavs. And with that old Depot thing is like some

weird Miami Brooklyn swap. So we're just talking swaps. I don't see any scenario where if Kevin Durant is healthy, that those swaps will come into play with Houston for the next two years. So now you're just talking about a bunch of picks. Now you could say, well, this is how Boston got Tatum. I don't know. Boston got Tatum partly because Prokhorov, for whatever reason, was like, whatever strategy we had, let's do a 180 on that and fire sale and basically torpedoes the team. And that was a gift from God. I don't know if that happens again. KFC, I still don't like what Houston got. Have you changed your mind at all? Would you rather have Ben Simmons if you're Houston with everything that's happened and how he might be in a situation where they're losing

in there and there's really no hope? I mean,'s in that scenario who's to say he wouldn't be pushing his way out of houston so quickly like harden might be now with brooklyn i think the picks are the safer the bet and they give you the ability to be flexible during the off seasons in any event any player might become available or if there's a player you want to trade up for and target like if they if they end up with the fourth pick in this year's draft, they now have the ammo to put together and say, okay, we're going to trade up the two to get the guy that we want. I think that's where the true value comes into play for the Rockets.

But wasn't that Simmons trade? It wasn't just Simmons. It was Simmons and a bunch of picks. And Brooklyn kept throwing in picks from their end, but Simmons was such a bigger trump card. So I don't know. I would have taken Simmons. I just think that was the better offer. Was that a

Tillman for Titta thing? Do we know that for a fact that he just wouldn't deal hard into Morey? As a fact? I don't think it helped, but from what I heard, Harden and Durant wanted to play together and lobbied Joe Sy pretty hard. What did you hear on that, Jackie?

Anything? Yeah, that's what I heard too. But who knows? Everything gets changed around now because of the way things have gone. And you talk about the picks and you just never know with picks because one catastrophic injury changes a franchise's situation entirely. And then all of a sudden that pick that you thought was never going to be worth anything is really a pretty high pick. Well, it's also a

great thing if you're a GM trying to keep your job for multiple years. Like, look at all these picks. Well, we won't know until the picks. KOC, if you ever become a GM, trade for a lot of firsts. You can just point to them and go, hey, you know, that 2025 pick swap. You'll never know. So Katie and Harden are the other interesting piece of this. And I want to talk about that after the break. All right, Katie and Harden. I think we all agree they pushed to play together.

I think they lobbied Joe Sy and the Nets management to make this happen. And that was ultimately why Harden went to the Nets. I would assume they still have a friendship and a relationship. I would assume KD, who's been pretty quiet other than going at Stephen A this week, I would assume that he's lobbying Harden to stay. But I would also assume Brooklyn's management is like, here's what I think we could get if Harden leaves.

We don't think we're going to sign him. We're worried about this, that I just wonder like, what do we think Durant's role is even during this whole saga? Is he conciliary for Nets management? Is he like, I'm out. I don't care.

I'll play with whoever he's had the ability with. You know, he didn't talk to Westbrook for a while. I think Kim and Harden were close and closer in OKC and then not as close. And then they became close again. Like he might just be, I don't care. Do whatever I'm out or

he might be involved. KFC, what do you think? I mean, if you're a KD, like he is like a basketball junkie. He did those videos analyzing high school players years ago. He loves it. If you're a Kevin Durant watching James Harden right now in the back of your mind you gotta be like

this isn't the James Harden that I was with in OKC it's not the Harden I watched win an MVP in Houston maybe getting a 25 year old Ben Simmons who can be the anchor of our defense and be a point guard a facilitator for us on offense maybe that could be better for us

he doesn't fucking move on offense. Maybe that could be better for us to win a championship. He doesn't fucking move on offense. So maybe he's like, oh man, I thought it would be more fun to play with James than maybe it is. So maybe he moved off that. Is that possible? It's got to be possible. I mean, how could it not be possible? How can like KD not look at the games and see Harden just looking into space as offensive

players back cut behind him and not get frustrated in the same way like with LeBron James and Russell Westbrook right now like you have like the basketball analyst inside of these players has to be saying I don't know I don't know about this there's there's gonna be something better for me to win a championship

and I think for Harden you're right Jackie you said it earlier for the Nets. I like that version of the Nets more. If they're able to get Simmons and a pick and a player, Danny Green, maybe. If you're Kevin Durant, I like the idea of that too. Jackie, when did the NBA turn into an elementary school with people just jumping friend groups and changing friends? And all of a sudden, Becky and Elizabeth aren't hanging out anymore. Oh my God, what happened? They don't talk.

What happened? But that's AU. I mean, it goes back to AU because that's where you learn all that stuff, you know, on the bus rides and the whole thing. And I will say this about KD though. He supported Kyrie Irving start to finish publicly. Now, I don't know what goes on privately, but publicly, he has supported him. There hasn't been one wavering moment publicly. And I think that's sort of how KD rolls. And I kind of like that about him, to be honest. You know, and I'll say this for LeBron, too, Kevin. I'm sure everything you said about him watching Russell Bresbro. But he hasn't said

anything either. So like if you want to secret, you know, have some private conversations or thoughts about it, that's fine. But both of those guys publicly have supported

their player, supported their teammate. That's fair. So Dame, we don't feel like we'll be in this trade deadline switching gears. No, I don't. like we'll be in this trade deadline switching gears. No, I don't.

But I do think McCollum could potentially be in there. And you look at New Orleans, I was looking at all that. They gotta do something. Oh my goodness. They have got to do something. So since December 1st, New Orleans is basically 500. Right. And I don't know if Zion coming back this year or not, but you know, the embattled GM, that's always a team that's usually going to try to swing for some sort of fence. They have a bunch of picks. They could package together a McCollum trade pretty nicely. There's been a lot of McCollum buzz with them. And I don't know, it could be like Devante Graham. Josh Hart. Yeah, whatever.

Keep hearing Josh Hart. Yeah. Yeah. Put together a couple of contracts. Yeah. Hart's the name out there a lot right now. Yep. Yeah. KOC, do you... If you're New Orleans, are you trading for a two guard

who's making 30 million bucks? Like, to what end? What am I getting? I mean, you got to bolster the team around Zion. And, I mean, hope he's healthy. I mean, even forget Zion for a minute you got to give Ingram a scoring partner um but I think for New Orleans I would like CJ McCollum there um I mean it's not perfect but it's something it gives you a perimeter playmaker

who's better than Devante Graham uh I it's an upgrade for sure and that's this is a team that's trying to make a name for itself so I like it in that sense with the position they're in. I like it too. What do you think, Jackie? Yeah, I do. And I think Zion just looms so large over all of it. Even before he got hurt, you know, you and I were joking about him wanting to play for the Knicks. You know, we were kidding, sort of, maybe. And so, you know, you just want Zion to want to stay, whether he's healthy or not. And there's been some, obviously there's been some friction. Whenever a player's hurt for this length of time, it's impossible for the team and the player to be on the same page. I don't care who they are because you start doubting yourself. Then you start doubting them. And you know, that's just human nature almost. So if I'm

the Pelicans, I want to, I want Zion to say, ah, that was a good trade deadline for us, man. I'd like to play with that guy. I hope I can get back. I want to play with CJ McCollum. Everyone likes playing with CJ McCollum. I never heard anybody say a bad word about him in terms of being a teammate or anything. He's an awesome guy. He came on my pod last year and I had to apologize to him for throwing in a trade rumors for five years because he was always, you know, was always do Dame and CJ ultimately makes sense if those are your two best players. Right, right.

With the Zion thing. So I'm going to spoil something right now. I would bet anything on this. He's going to sign the extension. He's had three major injuries already. Well, he has to. He has to. You can't mess around. That's too much money.

But that doesn't mean you stay there your whole career. Right. But I think you made the key point. McCollum, Ingram, you know, now you bring Zion back. Now you have Valanchunas, who's been really good for them. Now it's like, now you have some adults out there, and then you're building at least something. And you have some picks to make a move.

Oh, Lonzo Ball. Oh, wait. Yeah, we lost him. The Lonzo piece was indefensible. Unbelievable. Are you sure about that with Zion? Like, cause I think if Zion didn't play again until 2023, somebody would still give him a max contract. Like if he just didn't play until summer 2023, he'd get a max offer. I think he's getting the max contract regardless.

I'm just saying New Orleans has the chance this summer to give him some security, which I think he's going to take. If you're him, you're going to mess around with that for a year and be like, ah, let's see. Oh, what do you know, KOC?

I don't know anything. I'm just saying with Zion here, why not roll the dice? If you do want to leave, if you actually do, you're making $13.5 million in 2022-2023. And then that following summer, who knows? I mean, if he did sign it, he's still making in the high teens for that last year before he can become unrestricted again.

So I think for Williamson, it's not a guarantee, but that's why the Pelicans do need to bring some adults into the room, as you said, and make this team appealing, make it a place that he wants to stay. So we're not even talking about this months from now. It's so tough because it's the one year

where you can't replace the money. Any other time, you talk yourself into it, but this is like just fundamentally a $20 million loss that you can't replace unless you know, you're going to a city like New York and you, and you could say, well, if we do this,

Nike is going to give me a $25 million bonus or whatever. Like, and you can replace the money with sponsors. But, you know, with New Orleans, we didn't talk about my guy Herb Jones either. I apologize for leaving him out because he's been just a delight as a rookie. And if you bring in McCollum, even if Zion doesn't come back, that could be a fun, frisky play-in team. Just in general, the play-in situation in

the West is like, it's, it's grisly. Like Portland's still in there as a, as a tent seat. They're, you know, they're, it looks like they're trying to sell. Indiana became a seller, which I think we expected. So basically for Levert, they get a lottery protected first round pick from Cleveland. And then they get this Houston second-rounder that will be in the low 30s, which is a nice pick, but I thought they'd get more for him.

Why did Indiana do this now, Kev? And was there anybody else out there that could have given him more than this? Because I was surprised that this was the trade. I mean, I disagree. I think it's a good return for Indiana here.

They get two picks in the 20 to 32, 33 range, depending on where Houston falls. That's going to give them a lot of flexibility on draft night. Similar to what I said earlier about like with Houston, if Indiana ends up fifth or sixth, they'll have some ammo to move around. The problem for them is this, like, as you get deeper into the first round, this year's class seems like it'll be weaker. We'll see how that changes before June. But those picks in 2022 don't necessarily have the same value as some of the deeper drafts that we've seen in recent years. But with LaVert, I don't think there's people lined up around the corner for him.

He's been a notoriously inefficient scorer for years now. His most efficient season of his career, or maybe best, was his rookie year. So for him, I think with LaVert, he's a volume scorer, and there's some value there for Cleveland. But it's no guarantee to be an A-plus result for the Cavaliers on this end either because of his scoring inefficiencies. Yeah, except for he does do what they need, which is drive to the basket, draw people. That's exactly what Cleveland needs, which they're missing right now. Cleveland's so fun. I'm really excited. I mean, really, I think they're a really fun team. I mean, everyone loves Darius Garland. It's too bad Sexton is gone. They're such an interesting

team. So I think Indiana, the one thing you can never discount with them, old school owners, they're watching their luxury tax line. They want to get way under. They want all sorts of cap space. I hope they don't. I mean, well, actually, I do hope they trade Sabonis. I'd like him to see him go somewhere where he could be a little more relevant in the league because I just well know you like him too, Bill. I just love watching him play. We always thought they would trade Miles Turner before Sabonis. It looks like they might even trade both if this really is the fire sale that we keep hearing it might be. Yeah, and Turner's hurt. That's the problem with Turner. That killed their plan.

I think he already would have been traded. Yeah, he would have been gone already. So, KFC, I wanted the Cavs to get Gordon. I thought he made more sense with the team they have. I also think he's playing well. And I think that would have been a fair price for Gordon if they had done that. I guess the case with Levert is he's 27

and he's bounced around a little. He's been in different types of situations. And, you know, if you're looking at it and you're like, all right, this is our team now, you know, where we have, you have Mobley and Allen, you have Kevin Love and Markkinen, you have Garland, you have Levert, you have Okoro, you have Osman. Ben Sexton. Ben Sexton when he comes back. Yeah, when he comes back. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have

some picks that you accumulated too. To me, this was a move, I'm guessing, I haven't read any of the stories yet, that they really thought about this for

five, six weeks and they were like, this is actually the guy we want to add to the center contract this year, next year. And if he does well, we can extend him.

But I think for just watching them, I thought Gordon would have made it. I thought adding him in a playoff series, I trust him more than Levert. I think Levert's kind of a ball stopper. I'm not positive about him with the flow that this team has.

So I guess we'll find out. You seem like you're down on it. I mean, he definitely leans towards scoring. I don't know if I'd go full ball stopper. He can pass a little bit. And maybe surrounded by the talent they have in Cleveland. He leans into that even more. But he's not like a like a orchestrator or conductor of the offense by any means, which is why, like Jackie said, he brings what they need in the sense that they need downhill. A guy who can attack the basket and that can complement complement the perimeter-oriented game of Darius Garland.

You can shuffle different pieces with Jared Allen or Evan Mobley. There's so many different pick-and-roll combinations that they can play with and that can be effective together. I like it for Cleveland. I don't love it. Similar to, like you said, Bill, because of just the natural Eric Gordon fit, what he would have been there. But he's also six years older, and he doesn't fit the timeline of what that core is so this this is clearly a trade for cleveland that's about more than just this season it's about the

future and growing lavert into something that they want him to be that fits everything else well in the kevin love rejuvenation season jackie who would have thought he was like way back in the freezer he was like covered with ice cubes and like seaweed. And you're like, what is that? Is that a pizza? And you're pulling, you're pulling. It's like, oh my God, it's Kevin Love. Hey, he's delicious. I forgot. Well, you forget how good he is. You know, seriously, you forget how good he is. Again, it's all about fit. You said that earlier, Kevin. And I would say 95% of all NBA players, it's all about fit. And your mental attitude. And his attitude sucked.

He deserved to get criticized. I think he knows that. He was like, man, I'm a champion. I don't need this crap. And so now all of a sudden, they're kind of fun to be around. And he helps them. He does. He's had a nice little, I mean, he's really been good. Well, you know what's been great? And I've thought this forever. I mean, I just feel like, I know he won a title in Cleveland. He'd probably do that over again. But just the worst possible team for him to go to for what his skills were.

I just love when he's around the basket. Right. And when you're just putting him in the corner and you're putting him 25 feet away, you're taking this guy who his single greatest gift is his instincts around the basket for his offensive rebounds, for the ability to grab a defensive rebound and send a pass out and all of these things that if he's just standing in the corner like Jay Crowder, I'm not using those gifts. So it's been nice to see it again this year. Well, and he's, you know, he completely changed his body. You were talking before about changing your body. Think about Minnesota Kevin

Love and what this Kevin Love looks like. Go back and look at the old photos. You know, he completely remodeled his body too, because he had to, because he saw what was happening. He was smart enough to realize the game's getting away from low post centers. If I want to survive, I got to be able to shoot threes and I got to thrive out here on the perimeter and I got to figure out a way to do it. So he completely underwent a complete change in his body. He's another guy that he's not plant-based, but he's close. And he watches every single calorie he puts into his body. So he made that change ahead of most of the other guys. Like Roy Herbert all of a sudden looked up and he's like, oh crap, what happened? Wait,

I can't play anymore? How come? But Kevin Love was sort of planning for it. Hey Kev, since December 1st, the two best records in the league are Memphis at 26-8 and Phoenix at 24-7. And nobody else is really close to them within four or five games. Not surprised by Phoenix. They've been the best team start to finish all year.

Memphis, who you were on a pod last week and you did the whole Memphis love fest, which I totally agreed with. The fact that they're 26-8, that's a real record. Now I'm starting to wonder, what's the ceiling for this team? And we talked about,

just like, is this a team that should go in with Sabonis? We talked about this on a podcast I did a couple of days ago, so I don't want to rehash that part. But is this to you, is this 2010 OKC? This will be a fun ride. We'll get our feet wet.

Or is this something a little more special and a little more profound? Could this be the 2013 Pacers or 2012 Pacers? I can't remember what their first run. Could that be one of those? Or is this like a feel-good story that ultimately dies in round two? I mean, if it dies in round two, is that a bad thing? I mean, that's pretty special still, I think. If they were able to make it to round two in this Western Conference playoff race and lose a tough, hard-fought

series, or even losing five. Jackie, that's KOC's generation. Trophy generation. Hey, guys, we made it to game seven in round two. Here's your trophy. That's not true. I'm all about blowing it up and trying to get to win a championship. That should be the goal for every franchise.

And I think with Memphis, that's why I have the perspective that I do. I think if they make a rash decision to try to rush this, that could be a negative for them when it comes to actually winning and competing for championships in the years to come. This core is so young. I'm not concerned almost with how far they go in the playoffs this year. It's about the development of these players and how they've grown together. Like it's,

it's remarkable that they're in this position that they are now. It's crazy that they're right here right now. So the playoffs and how that results for them, I mean, it's all part of getting experience so they can actually win it. So I'm down with that. But Jackie, I feel like there's three really good teams right now, and they're one of the three.

And I would actually be thinking like, holy shit, we could actually make the finals with the team we have. Well, they remind me of Trey Young in Atlanta last year. John Morant is Trey Young. You know, he's just exploding. And he's just he's got all the positive self-talk you could possibly want and enough to pass out to the rest of the guys on his team to share a little bit too. You've got great stories all over the place. Desmond Bain, you know, Jaron Jackson Jr. to me

is still the key to that team because he's had so many ups and downs with injuries. I think he's a terrific basketball player and we haven't even come close to seeing what he can be yet. I still believe that. I mean, he's had some injuries, as we know. So they just remind me of Atlanta, you know, who got to the conference finals last year. Remember? Yeah, so all right, turn the camera on, Kyle. So I've been watching

a lot of Jha. I'm going to say something that's completely sacrilegious. I want you to bear with me, especially you, Jackie. I don't want you to keel over or anything, because this is the most hyperbolic thing I'm going to say in a while. Oh, no. Get a drink first. Oh, I wish it was whiskey.

It's just tea. Go ahead. Watching Ja. Oh, I'm not going to like this. I already know. Go ahead. So we were there for young Jordan. Yeah. Oh, my God. You're not comparing him to Jordan. Go ahead. So we were there for young Jordan. Yeah.

Oh, my God. You're not comparing him to Jordan. Just wait. This is why I said, take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. Jordan, the most fun part of him the first couple years was when he would go to the basket. And he would go up and crazy shit would happen.

And there would be these double clutches and pumps, or he'd dunk over somebody. And it got to the point. And plus back in that era, guys were clotheslining him, guys were undercutting him. So there was a fear factor too, which I think we have with Jeff. But the thing that was so great about him those early years was just how exciting it was to watch him go to the basket. And he was just doing stuff we really hadn't seen other than people like Dr. J. But even with Jordan, it was these double clutches. It was these, him sideways, 45 degree angles and these spins.

And it's like, how did he do that moments? And watching Ja this year reminds me of that. And I'm not saying he's Jordan and I'm not saying he's the next Jordan, any of that stuff. I'm just like, when I watch him do that, it really reminds me of young Jordan, where there's a lot of how did he do that stuff? Initially, I was like, he's Derrick Rose. He's next Derrick Rose. He's like Rose Westbrook, like the same kind of thing. Rose and Westbrook couldn't do the stuff that he

does. The double clutch, the triple clutch, the crazy fucking shit that he does. It reminds me of 80s Jordan. I'm sorry. And the other thing that John Morant has done that those guys didn't do is John Morant can shoot. He's teaching himself how to shoot. Well, I'm sure he's getting some help. But I mean,

you know, the early knock on him was, well, he's just one of those guys, exciting guys, but he can't, you know, teams will just sag off him and he can't make him pay. Well, I just don't think that's going to be true. So he's really fun to watch, but I'm sorry. I just can't go there with you. So sorry. Listen, I'm not going all the way there.

I'm not saying that Jordan... I'm just saying this one specific quality really reminds me of Jordan. KOC, was that too hyperbolic or no? I mean, it's probably too hyperbolic, but he sure as hell is fun. And I'm not going to let comparisons ruin my enjoyment of watching Ja Morant just weasel his way to the basket

or speedburst his way to the basket or just launch himself to the basket. He does it in so many different ways with the left hand, with the right hand. The other day against Orlando, you mentioned how Jordan would be getting clotheslined yeah i had this layup where it was like this left foot left hand scoop finish and then orlando helped defender kind of the way he timed his jump he like hit jaw flat to the ground unintentionally but it was just like one

of those moments that reminds you of basketball from the past when they were intentionally getting clothesline. But Ja is like remarkable and I can't get enough of watching him drive to the basket. So in that sense, I love it very much. He's a lock, right? For all NBA, we agree that. Which team? I'm just curious. I think he's probably grabbing the Curry spot if he can stay healthy the rest of the year. You really think so? I think it's probably grabbing the curry spot if he can stay healthy the rest of the year. You really think so? I think it's in play for him. Yeah.

First or second. Yeah. Yeah. He's in the mix. You know, the other guy who's like this, just in this discussion of the going to the basket in the air stuff, young Kobe was like that too, right? I think as Kobe got older and kind of that 2006 to 2009, Kobe became kind of the dominant Kobe memory for people. And they, you know, it was just, it was more recent and he was the focal point. He had a

little more space because Shaq wasn't there anymore, but you watch those early, those late nineties Kobe games, you know, and that was, you're just like, Oh my God, this guy, the way he goes to the basket, Jesus. Vince was a little like that too, but Vince was a lot bigger. I think Ja, young Kobe, MJ, they were like kind of, there's a frailty to their bodies where you're nervous as they're going up. Well, you know that Kobe, I did a piece with Kobe once a million years ago. I think I was at ESPN. I can't remember, but I sat down and watched film with him.

I watched film of Oscar and he showed me what he stole from Oscar. We sat down and watched like a lot of Jordan film and he, he just stole everything. He was a thief. Like all the great ones are really. And he was telling me early on his career, he said like a lot of the stuff Jordan was doing, I couldn't do like,

he didn't know how to, he didn't know how to post guys up. He didn't know how to post guards up in the post. Right. That was something Jordan told him about later on, but he's like, but I knew I could, I had the athleticism to do. So he would like have films of Jordan. He would just sit there and watch him kind of like Michael Cooper used to did when he was trying to figure out how to guard Larry Bird. He'd just watch him over and over and over again. So the fact that you think

that reminds you of Jordan, that's, that's by design. That's not by accident. Now I'd be interested to know, like, has John Morant ever sat down and watched film of Kobe of Jordan, that's by design. That's not by accident. Now, I'd be interested to know, has John Morant ever sat down and watched film of Kobe or Jordan? He probably hasn't. He probably is like, hey, man, I'm my own guy, and this is how I do it. But I'd be curious to know. Well, the thing that all three of those guys had, young Kobe, young Jordan, and what we see from Jaws,

he's going to the basket, and he's going to decide later what he's going to the basket and he's not, he's going to decide later what he's going to do. Right. He's just like, I'm, I'm jumping and then I'll kind of figure it out as this guy bounces off. And I think that's such a rare quality. Like doc was like that too.

Yeah. Doc was, doc was, Oh my God. Connie Hawkins was the first one, but I didn't get to see Connie Hawkins. Yeah. Yeah.

But very few of us did because, you know, he's blackball. But yeah, Dr. J for sure. In fact, I was just talking to Dr. J for a project you and I are involved in a bit. Yeah. And he was telling me that, you know, the first, you know, foul line slam dunk, he, he, he wasn't planning on it. You know, he was like going to go do the big dipper laying, you know? And all of a sudden he's like, wow, I'm kind of, I think, wait, wouldn't you love, wouldn't you love

to be in the air and say, ah, should I lay this in or should I dunk it? Like, just one time in your life, wouldn't you love that? Oh, man, I would kill for that. Well, that was the famous 1980 finals play when he does the swoop under the basket. All right, we're taking one more break, then a couple more things, and then we'll go.

All right, KFC, quick hits, because we had the trade deadline. It's four days away. Let's start here. Pat Williams, is he still on Chicago on Friday? Yes. I say yes. What do you say, Jackie? Yes.

So their move will be Derek Jones. They'll move around the fringes, but they won't actually make a real move. They don't need to. Okay. Who is on Portland out of Nurkic and McCollum or both or neither on Friday?

Neither. You think both are gone? Yeah, both gone. Yeah. Jackie? I think McCollum goes. Maybe Nurkic stays. Only because they don't get the deal they want.

A little more iffy on Nurkic. Yeah. I agree with that. Well, the awesome thing about Nurkic, great contract. Yeah. He also looks like Moe's, you know, Dwight Schrute's cousin Moe's. Doesn't he?

Yeah. All right. Will Washington trade Beal, yes or no? No. I don't think so. No. Yeah. No.

You know what they're going to do? You know what they're going to do. They need to get under the cap, too. They want to get under the luxury cap. They want some of Brooklyn's money and the Clippers' money. So they'll deal Schroeder, I think. They'll deal Schroeder to somebody and find a way to get under that number. The Toronto Raptors since December 1st, 19-10.

My team. How about my boy Siakam? You were the last believer. You were. I was. I told you he wasakam? You were the last believer. You were. You were it. I told you he was going to be back. You could argue that he got snubbed for the All-Star game. You could argue that. I mean, I get why Van

Fleet got it. You could have made a good case for Siakam. Look at his numbers over the last... I mean, he's been back to... Well, he's better. I was going to say he's been back to the original guy, but he's even better now because he's smarter. He's stronger. I mean,

Nick Nurse is such a good coach. They're unbelievable what they've done. KOC, do they get splashy at the deadline? Because the East, again, as we keep saying, it's not like the East isn't open right now. They have the Drogage contract. Do they get a little frisky?

I think they're going to explore. I haven't heard anything definitive in terms of targets and whatnot. But how could you not at least explore? Like Jackie said, Pascal Siakam is better than he's ever been right now. They put the ball in his hands, letting him run point more often, be a playmaker. And he looks absolutely sensational. Never mind everybody else in that team.

Chris Vernon always says to me, his rule is don't play guys who suck. I mean, they don't play anybody who sucks. It's just a team full of good players. They all can play and play together too. So I think Toronto will explore whether they find anything that remains to be seen. Can I just say I'm just sad about Drogic?

I like Drogic. He's one of those guys that everybody... He's another guy everybody counts out, and, oh, well, we don't need him. We're going to offload him. We're going to do this. And I get why Toronto's doing this, I guess, but I just feel bad for Drogic.

I think he deserves better. Well, I thought he didn't want to play there. I don't know. What's the actual story? I thought he was one of those Toronto's too cold, just call me when you made the trade, guys. Yeah, but they didn't trade him. You know?

Yeah. It reminds me of the Iguodala Memphis thing. But he'll get traded. He'll end up on a playoff team. Yeah, he should. Maybe in Dallas. No, it'll be fine. Next question.

Dallas is a good place for him. KOC, is Sacramento in a coma? Do they realize they trade deadlines on Thursday? I mean,. Do they realize they trade their minds on Thursday? I mean, I think they realize. I mean, like, you brought up the Fox thing

on our green room. They're definitely talking to teams. There's a lot of Harrison Barnes stuff out there now. Yeah, that's the guy who's going to go. Yeah.

Barnes went from, like, he's being a keeper for Sacramento early in the season. He was considered a keeper. Now he's involved in everything. Everything'm sure you guys have talked to him. He's like a very intelligent guy, very aware. And I think he's a guy that understands our business, you know, media business. And he must be drowning there, right? Just drowning. Because you go there to die, you know?

What's your dream Marvin Bagley team, KOC? I don't have one. That's it. I don't have a dream. You want to see him like a couple, like 20 games on the Pistons? I mean, I've never thought about it until this moment. But yes, a team this young that he can play

and get consistent minutes in and see if there's something there where defense doesn't matter right now. Jackie, why wouldn't OKC go all in on Sabonis? They have a million picks why not they're 30 million under the salary floor like and I was thinking about them the other day too

because at what point does Shea Gilgis-Alexander saying I'm like okay hey this sucks yeah I've been patient but like what is this like you know another all-star snub I think you could argue

Shea Gilgis-Alexander but no one's ever gonna like you know if I'm him I'm'm going to be like, hey, when are we actually, you know, doing this? So Sabonis would be a pretty good start. Actually, for that matter, they could take on Marvin Bagley, couldn't they? Why not?

Yeah, it's not bad. What about Buddy Heald? That's what I want to know. Buddy Heald, I don't hear his name. I thought I would. I've been watching the box scores. That's what I want to know. Buddy Heald. I don't hear his name. I thought I would. I've been watching the box scores. He's kind of like, eh. Well, Fox Randall

seems like that's just the deck chairs movie and the Titanic for both teams in a lot of ways. I guess my thing with Randall, and I've talked to some Knicks fans about it, where teams treat him like he's the number one when they play the Knicks, and it's really started

since the playoffs last year. And if you're game planning for Julius Randall as the best player on the other team, you're probably going to be able to slow down Julius Randall. So there's a question of what would happen if he was with other really good players? Again, fit. Once again, we're

at the fit place. Right. So if you're, if you're him and you're going to Sacramento and he gets played Halliburton, you know, maybe that's a better fit. I don't KOC and I are more down on Darren Fox. I think the most, where do you stand Jackie? I want to like Darren Fox, but I want to, but I want Darren Fox to like turn back the clock to when he was a rookie and we saw things that made us interested in and hopeful and I haven't seen that you know and again in and out of the lineup yeah it's hard but again I just don't know you know you the whole Sacramento malaise it's it's just it's real you know it's been so long but it was it was a blaze when you were covering basketball in the 80s like I said it's been so long I But it was a blaze when you were covering basketball in the 80s. Like I said, it's been so long.

I mean, the only time they were ever good, Shaq was calling them the Queens, you know? Yeah. So it's a tough place for a lot of reasons. All right. Let's end here. The Celtics. Buyers or sellers, KOC? I mean, the things I'm hearing, it seems more like sellers.

But why not be a buyer considering the state of the Eastern Conference? Would be my question there for them. But it seems like they're going to be sellers. I'll give you an answer, Kev, because they're another team that wants to get under that luxury tax. They really do because they're looking at their roster and they're saying, okay, yeah, the East is wide open, but we're really, we don't, unless they get really intoxicated. Cause you know, this lineup with Horford, Brown, Tatum, Marcus, who am I forgetting? The fifth guy. Well, he went to an eight man rotation and it's worked and everybody else is out. But that starting lineup has only been together like 16 games and And the plus minus numbers with that lineup, it's kind of unbelievable.

And Marcus Smart's numbers since he came back from COVID and the injuries are just off the charts. So he's playing his way into staying. Everything I've heard about the Celtics is they're not going to do anything big. They're going to hang on to Tatum and Brown. And then as you and I have discussed or speculated, I guess we should say, Bill, at what point does Jalen Brown say, I don't know, do I still want to be here if I'm never going to be, you know, he doesn't make the all-star team. Jason Tatum gets all the love. I think I'm better than that. You know, there was a report, I think by Steve Bulpett,

the former held writer this week that said, you know, there's some discomfort or a report, I think, by Steve Bulpett, the former held writer this week, that said there's some discomfort or a little uncertainty with the way Jalen Brown is thinking. So what does that do for you? I mean, because if you're Brad Stevens, I don't think you do anything now. You deal Schroeder because you're not going to resign him. And some contending team, really deep contending team, will add him as insurance. Milwaukee or somebody or whatever. The Bucks. Yeah. The Bucs. Yeah.

The Bucs are the name I'm hearing too. Yeah, Milwaukee. And so maybe you move him. The one thing I've heard that I don't like is the possibility of them moving Grant Williams. I think Grant Williams has had a really good year. And he's four inches too short. And he'll always be four inches too short. But, you know, he's the only guy that's hitting threes for you.

So you better get a shooter back if you're going to trade Grant Williams. I, first of all, cheap contract. He finally figured out how to shoot corner threes and I can't believe I'm saying this, but he's an actual asset. I know you don't like him, you and your dad. I know that. No, I'm in, I've come around. So I spent, I just spent four days with my dad. He doesn't want them to trade Schroeder. He thinks because he,

he thinks the East is wide open and he's a lunatic. But he, Schroeder is counterproductive for them. Counterproductive for them. I told you this the last time. Schroeder off the bench as like just 20 minutes a game versus rolling the dice and paying Pritchard. I don't know his,

I think it's just as likely that they trade Langford to OKC and get some lightly protected 2041 second round pick where you're basically giving him away to get under the tax. They're getting under the tax regardless. That's what they want to do. Could you get an actual

draft pick from somebody from Schroeder? It's not going to come from Milwaukee. Milwaukee doesn't have any draft picks. Phoenix has Jalen Smith. I don't think you get a draft pick from somebody from Schroeder. It's not going to come from Milwaukee. Milwaukee doesn't have any draft picks. Phoenix has Jalen Smith. I don't think you get a draft pick for him. He can walk. I don't see you getting a hug.

Is this why trading Marcus Smart could make more sense? Because you get a good amount back from Marcus Smart. I've heard that Timberwolves really, really like Marcus Smart. Yeah, they love him. I mean, that kind of indicates, because they wanted Ben Simmons for a long time.

If they're not getting Simmons, maybe they want Smart to be their defensive-oriented player. But I don't know. You get a good amount back from Marcus Smart that you're not going to get for some of these other guys to get under the tax. I think you wait till the summer. I think you wait till the summer to do that, Kev.

I agree. I can't believe till the summer to do that, Kev. I agree. I can't believe I'm about to say this. I've been really encouraged by Smart the last couple weeks. I think he's figured it out. That's great. I think he's figured it out. And whether it continues or not, but I actually think he took a lot of the Celtics need a real point guard

dialogue that had been out there for three weeks. I think he took it personally. He said as much. But he has played like a facilitator. The shot selection has been much better. And I think, I think he's been really good. So I'd be nervous.

I'd be nervous to, I'd be nervous to trade him. Schroeder is the one that makes the most sense. I could also see them just getting off one of these contracts and doing it that way. Okay. See is going to be the big kind of wild card, I think, for, you know,

these next, what, next 96 hours because they're so far under the salary floor. Right. They can basically be like, here, we'll get you under the luxury tax. Like, send your guy here. We'll take this. We'll do, how about a pick swap in 2038? Who's taking DeAndre Jordan off the Nets hands?

Oh, De, uh, no, he's, I mean, I mean, Oh, off the Lakers hands. Yeah, Lakers hands. I mean, sorry. Yeah. See, I've already got, I still have him at the Nets. Yeah, but he's, they're going to, they'll try to move him.

That'll be their move, right? So who takes him? Probably. Okay. I mean, OKC is just there. They have the sign on their store. They're like open 24 seven. Yeah. I mean, OKC is just there. They have the sign on their store that like open 24-7. Yeah. I mean, the Lakers can't do anything, right?

What can the Lakers do? They can't do anything, right? Horton Tucker maybe? Trade Westbrook, your 2027 first, Horton Tucker for Wall and Eric Gordon. That's what you can do. Am I getting too crazy here? You are. Stop.

God. I've read that book. I getting too crazy here? You are. Stop. God. I've read that book. I've read that book three times already. Wait. Would Houston do that? No. If they can't get anything else better for Eric Gordon, why not? Man.

The Lakers pulled that off. I mean, Eric Gordon. I went to a game. Jack, I told KOC this, but I went to the Clipper game the other night. And Ariza was left more open than I think any NBA player I've ever been to a game with. They were like 11 feet off him. Now he made a big three last night against Knicks, but they so clearly need anybody who can hit a three with the spacing. But the encouraging thing for the Lakers is Davis looks really good. And so, you

know, I thought he looked like crap to start the season, but the guy we've seen this week looks like Anthony Davis again. So that kind of opens the ceiling a little bit for them. Yeah. You seem dubious. Well, I just, you know, I just, I think it's, you need more than Anthony Davis. That's all.

LeBron looks great. I mean, unbelievable coming back off that bad knee, but I don't think that's the last we're going to hear of that bad knee. He only took a day and a half or two games off or whatever he took. So, same old problems for them. How do they get everybody to the finish line? What team, Jackie, what team do you like the most if you had to pick one team to win the

title right now? Because mine is Phoenix. I know yours is Phoenix. I'll take the Bucs. I'll take the Bucs. Giannis is very quietly once again, averaging 20-plus points a game for like, how many games in a row now? 17 games in a row or whatever. And they got everything they need. I'll take the Bucs.

KOC, question for you. If you had to pick a team right now to win the finals, who is it? The Phoenix Suns. They're complete. Utter complete roster. No changes needed. They can play any style.

They can dictate style. And you need to adapt to them. And they also have some guys who could be the best player on the court on any single night in Chris Paul and Devin Booker. Jackie, one of the things

I like about them, there's a little 80s Lakers Celtics kind of, oh, we're down 10. We're not worried at all. Yeah. Oh, you look up. Now they're up 10.

What happened? Oh, they went on like a 28 to 4 run. Like they have that switch, like the old school kick ass. We saw it with the 2017 Warriors. I'm not saying they're as good as them, but they do have that mode where they're kind of messing around

and then they can turn it on. I'd be thrilled if they won because everything about them is what's good about the NBA. You know, the way they got there, it's homegrown in part. They take on a veteran that everybody thought was done. I mean, that's a great Aiton. I can't believe they didn't pay him, but that, you know, that'll come back to bite them and that'll be okay too. But yeah, they're easy to root for.

Monty Williams is one of the, he was always one of the most underrated coaches around. Never got his due. I think he has the last couple of years and I'm glad for it. So I'd be, I'll be all right with that. But I just, I just watched the Bucks play and they, you know, after all those disappointments, they just changed the way they handled the regular season. And they just, they, you know, they watch their guys, they rest them, they try different things. They don't give you everything. They have a whole bunch of stuff you haven't seen yet. I guarantee it. And they have Giannis, who's just otherworldly.

I mean, he's unbelievable. And it's funny, no one talking about him for MVP because, you know, we get focused and so, you know, Embiid's been amazing. Jokic is right there at all times. But, you know, Giannis, I don't know. Why are we not talking about Giannis? Yeah, he'll have a run. know why, why are we not talking about Giannis? Yeah.

He'll have a run. The narratives, everybody grabs it for 10 days. And then we talk about that guy and just, it's so funny. The P cycle, it starts at like game 15 now. And then everybody gets there. I said,

I picked son's bucks before this season and I have not seen anything that makes me worried about that pick yet. Now, Philly, if Philly got Beal, not Harden. If they got Beal and they were able to keep Curry and everybody else, then that would make me possibly switch because the way Embiid's playing, that might be enough. Also, the Bucs, that's kind of the stealth. I really want to see

what they do on Thursday team. Can they get one more somebody or are they just going to wait and hope to get that person with the buyout? Before we go, Jackie said she saw LaMelo in person. She wanted to give her a review. No, I saw him once very briefly his rookie year and saw him the other night. He's so fast. I didn't realize he's so light. And I kept thinking, wait till, I mean, he's 19. I had to go back and check. I thought he was older. And I went back and checked, 19.

And another all-star snub, by the way, LaMelo Ball. And I just wonder, what if he puts on some muscle? Well, I don't think it'll slow him down. And he's, I mean, I'd like to see him play better. I was watching him a lot on defense. And that's probably don't think it'll slow him down, you know? And he's, I mean, I'd like to see him play better. I was watching him a lot on defense

and that's probably why the coaches didn't vote him. You know, they voted Draymond Green on. That tells you everything you need to know, right?

So it's kind of like, remember the year before they didn't put Trae Young on? But my thing about that is, you know, everybody would love to see LaMelo Ball

in an all-star game. Like, all-star game. They'd love to see him out there playing. He'd be passing everybody so quick. I just thought he was fun. I wonder what his future is.

I remember writing this 15 years ago that they should have a commissioner's pick for each conference just to make the game more fun. I was hoping LaMelo would make it because LaMelo should just be in the All-Star game. It's just going to be 10% more fun. There's certain guys like that.

And I'm hoping if somebody ends up backing out last minute or the injury or something, he would be the guy I hope gets shoehorned in there. Who would be for the other conference? Who would be your fun pick, KFC? One quick question. Is he in the Rising Stars, that little tournament

they're doing? Yes, I think he is. He is in that? That could be cool. I'm happy he's in that, personally. I look forward to it. But it's kind of like, I don't know. It's like when I used to play half JV, half varsity. I'm like, yeah, well, I really want to play varsity.

I want to see him with Giannis. That would be sick. That would be really cool. Anthony Edwards is the one in the West, right? Anthony Edwards? I like Anthony Edwards. That's a good choice. That works be sick. That'd be really cool. Anthony Edwards is the one in the West, right? Anthony Edwards? I like Anthony Edwards. That's a good choice. That works for me.

He's curating climbing just in general. He's giving some of the best interviews of any under 22 guy that we've had. He's just really like owning it. All right. KOC, we can hear you on the mismatch all week. You're coming on here on Thursday. We're going to be doing some trade deadline stuff.

Jackie, it was a pleasure as always. I know we're going to be announcing something soon, what your secret project has been. So I'm excited for that. I am too. I am too. Yeah, I'm excited for the world to hear it. Good to see both of you.

Thanks for coming on. All right, guys. Bye, Kevin. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing, as always. Thanks to Dylan Berkey

for the great video stuff and Steve Cerruti for helping out as well. And we'll be back on this feed on Tuesday with the big Super Bowl mega preview and then new rewatch

of all's Monday night, Rachel getting married. So that is the schedule. I will see you next time.