The Bill Simmons Podcast - Harden vs. Giannis, Wizards Pain, a Colin Farrell Interview, and 'WrestleMania' Predictions With Joe House, Chris Ryan, and "The Wild Animal" Ben Simmons | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: April 5, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the Wizards firing Ernie Grunfeld, a revitalized Gordon Hayward, MVP check-in and more (4:53). Then Bill sits down with Chris Ryan and Colin Farrell to talk about Farrell's meteoric rise in the early 2000s, sports movies, accent work, and some of Farrell's movies, including 'In Bruges,' 'Total Recall,' 'Minority Report,' and 'Miami Vice' (57:00). Finally, Bill talks with his son, Ben, to preview 'WrestleMania 35' (1:47:18). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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with Jason Concepcion. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We got nominated for some category that has really expensive VR shows and stuff like that. We got nominated for, for some category that has like really expensive, like VR shows and stuff like that. We're on there. We don't have quite the budget of the VR show, but we are on there. We are America's favorite underdog sports Emmy nominated digital sports show. Unfortunately it's on hiatus right now, but it's an awesome show. And I'm very proud of Jason,

Jason Gallagher and our entire Ringer video and social crew for pulling that one off. We also got nominated actually for Courtside, the NBA final show I did last year on HBO. And we got nominated for Momentum Generation, which was an excellent, excellent surfing documentary produced and directed by the Zimbalist Brothers. So good day this week for The Ringer yesterday. Very excited. Always good to get a little bit of love. What else do we got? The Ringer Podcast

Network. Oh yeah. Ryan Rosillo did a podcast with Jason Witten this week that got some press. He really said some fascinating things about why he left Monday Night Football, what went wrong, what it's like to be under the gun like that, all that stuff. So that was cool. The Recapables has relaunched for Killing Eve, which everyone on The Ringer loves. So Kate Hollowell, Alison Herman, they're going to be recapping it right now. Their recap of season one is up, and they'll be doing it every week through the season of Killing Eve. Cousin Sal had a 100th episode special of Against All Odds. I'm actually on that one, but that one was really fun. Dave Chang, he talked to Aaron Franklin, who is just a god in Austin, Texas, the barbecue god.

So he talked to him. We have the Masked Man show, and my son's coming up a little later, but the Masked Man has the WrestleMania preview. A lot of good stuff on the Ringer podcast right now, not to mention Ringer NBA, MVP cases, all that stuff. Coming up, we are going to talk to Joe House. We're going to do a Giannis Harden update.

I haven't been this unsure of my MVP pick this late in the season ever in my entire life. So we'll start there with House. Also going to talk about 16 years of Ernie Grunfeld who destroyed the Wizards both from within and without. And House was very excited that he was finally gone. Then Colin Farrell came in. As you know, we love Colin Farrell. Chris Ryan and I did a whole Rewatchables about Miami Vice once. Chris Ryan, I invited him to join that part of the podcast. So we interviewed Colin Farrell together. That was awesome. And he

might have the best, great accent week for us on the BS podcast because John Skipper, a phenomenal Southern accent on a, on Wednesday, people really liked that pod, by the way, thanks for all the feedback. Um, and then Colin Fowler, Colin Farrell, and then Chris Ryan trying to do a Bono, uh, I'm sorry, a Bono impersonation. And, uh, yeah, that's coming up. And then finally my son demanded to be on to preview NXT and WrestleMania this weekend, which we are actually going to, because, uh, a couple of years ago, I realized that at some point I'm going to be really old and my, my children are going to be in charge of my healthcare and my health. And I just count out to them all the time though, because I want to, I want to win points for when I'm 85. So we're going to NXT in Brooklyn and we're going to WrestleMania. Talking about all that stuff coming up. But first our friends. We're approaching. All right, we're taping this Thursday mid-afternoon East Coast time. On the line right now.

Not Drunk House, but a little bit Buzzed House. He just came back from a lunch. He had a couple beers. This is the house that we love the most when house says a blood alcohol level of at least 0.07, something like that drivable, but still, you know,

a little hop in a step. Hi house. How are you? I'm I, I love it. I'm right on the edge. That's the best way to put it. I'm,

I'm right on the edge in terms of my sentiments as it relates to all of the Washington, D.C. sports. But I am over the top with the recent development here with respect to the Washington almost bullets, an unbelievable development this week, Bill Simmons. Yeah. And we're not leading the podcast with it. We're holding that. I want to talk Giannis Harden first, and then you get to talk about 16 years. 16 years of Ernie Grunfeld. 16. Your Ernie Grunfeld relationship, you could drive.

You'd have a driver's license. That's how long you and Ernie were together. What were you doing 16 years ago? 16 what year is that? 2003, I was working for Jimmy Kibble Show. Oh, you had already, that's right. That was the year you moved, right? Yeah, that was the year I moved. That was two kids, four dogs, and two houses ago when the Wizards hired Ernie Grunfeld. So- Yeah, that was a year. I had three girlfriends that year.

That was a good year for me. Let's just talk about it now. Screw it. You won't be over. So in 2009 and 2010, Ernie committed some of the most fireable offenses in recent NBA GM history. Gilbert Arenas, who had severe, really bad knee trouble and ended up having major knee surgery. And Ernie gave him a $111 million contract extension. That was the, I think, summer of 2008.

He followed that up that summer by trading the fifth pick in the 2009 draft. Before the draft, he traded it for Mike Miller and Randy Foy to, I guess, fringe starter, good bench guys. But this was the draft that, uh, Steph Curry went sixth. So that was a problem house. And then, um, and then a year later, he gave Andre Blatch a $28 million extension that was immediately so bad that when they had the lockout, um, they had to end the state. And I'm not positive the extension had even kicked in yet. And there was already talk about in this thing, Ernie's moves. So at that point, it should have been over and somehow it lasted the rest of this decade.

What happened, House? Explain how this kept going. Well, what I will say, one thing I will come to Ernie's defense as it relates to the Gilbert Arenas contract I believe that the architect of that was the late great Abe Poland and he was great because he was the rare a rare example of an owner that put his own money where his mouth is he built the Wizards a downtown stadium in a portion of town that had otherwise been completely a desert, a dead part of downtown D.C. And in no small part, Abe Poland gets credit for helping revitalize D.C. as a destination to eat, drink and live.

He was ahead of the curve in that respect. And I think Abe Poland gave the direction to Grunfeld to reward Gilbert Arenas. Now, the thing that you would give Ernie credit for, almost uncertainly, I mean, undoubtedly, almost certainly, definitely, undoubtedly, his single best move as a GM was stealing away Gilbert Arenas from the Golden State Warriors 15 years ago. The mistake of overpaying Arenas after an injury, I think, was not 100% his mistake. But there are plenty of other mistakes. If this podcast, we could spend an hour doing every Ernie Grunfeld mistake. The relentless theme is what was short-sighted,

short-term moves designed to ensure that the team made the playoffs as often as possible. There was one era in which they didn't affirmatively confess to tanking, but they tanked.

It landed them the number one overall pick in the form of John Wall. That turned out to be, just as a fact of history, not the strongest draft that the Wizards had the number one pick in. So you just have to live with whatever the basketball gods give you. And John Wall is kind of a decent metaphor career-wise for what the Wizards are doing

over the entirety of the Grunfeld era. Yes. So I did a trade value column in February of 2009. So this is more than 10 years ago. And I was making up all these Karam Butler trades in there. And then I had in parentheses, my hope for a logical Butler trade might be unrealistic since you can obtain a free fire Ernie t-shirt simply by emailing a dude at Ernie gone at hotmail.com. I'm not making this up. When

some random fan is giving away free t-shirts to get his GM fired, you know, something has gone horribly wrong. Now this was over 10 years ago and the dude had a hotmail address. That's how long ago people were saying Ernie should get fired. Since I wrote that. Wait a minute, I still have a hotmail address. I still have a hotmail address. Oh yeah, well you do. Well, some people do. I still have an AOL address. I guess I should talk. Right. Four months later was when he did the Miller-Foy trade. And this was one of the few times that we really argued about something. And I don't even know if you were on the podcast at the time, but you kind of liked the Miller-Foy trade. And you were so tired of the hope of the draft picks.

And I remember we really battled over that. Now, I didn't know Curry was going to get was going to fall to five, but you were kind of guilty of this too, and I think the bigger issue and what Ernie kind of tapped into was the Wizards hadn't been good for so long that even the illusion of being good

sometimes was enough for the Wizards fans. It wasn't even about trying to win a title. It was just kind of like trying to get to 50 wins. Is that fair? That goal as a thing to invest your fandom in, we just want to go to the playoffs every year. We weren't ever feeling greedy. This is a franchise that

hasn't had 50 wins in over 40 years now. So our ambition, I would say, was pretty modest. It was why it was so thrilling to watch Gilbert Arenas and Karan Butler and Antoine Jamison playing together and for a brief stint had the best record in the Eastern Conference. And Eddie Jordan coached the Eastern Conference in the All-Star game because the Wizards entered that All-Star break that year with the best record in the East.

Now, it didn't last long, and then things happened in the playoffs and so on and so forth. But the bar has never been particularly high with Grunfeld. The overwhelming sentiment, the overwhelming feeling is just success measured by making the playoffs. And I don't think anybody here ever pretended that we ever were driving towards a title contender. Even Leonsis, with his arrival and taking the reins and becoming a 100 owner of the franchise he he said title words but they never did anything that would suggest that they could compete with the title nobody ever thought that the this iteration of the wizards

over the last dozen years had any chance at all at competing for a title with the personnel that they have and with Grunfeld at the helm. So, you know, this is in some respects that condition where you've sort of been beaten into submission and your expectations have been lowered. The mediocre, what's that phrase? Oh, there's a phrase. I'm going to botch it but in any event uh you know the the the mediocrity seeps in and and it drives your uh hopes for the team and and you um well set the

bar lower than than you ought to otherwise set it we did a podcast october 2012 after the ariza okafor trade which i don't even remember what it, but we were both horrified by it. And we really went after Ernie and they had re-signed him. And you said the biggest and most puzzling thing was re-signing Grunfeld. I'm not sure what the message we're supposed to draft. This is Dan Steinberg did a transcript of some of the things we said. I said, I wrote on the arena's years, which you just talked about so fondly, the Wizards were like a husband who had stopped having sex with his wife for 13 years, and they broke up. And then they started having sex with a waitress who they had just met at some diner. And it was a very passionate relationship. And then eventually they're like, oh, I can't

believe I dated that diner waitress, but you were just so happy to have sex. That was the playoffs. It's a pretty fair analogy. The wizard. 16 years. Well, it's worse than that though, because so you won the finals in 78, and then you made the finals again in 79. You lost to Seattle. You had 54 wins. In the last 40 years, in the last 40 years, 40, since that 79 finals appearance, the Wizards have not won 50 games. Not once. 40 years. I'm familiar. They've not won 50 games once. So the phrase is the soft bigotry of low expectations.

That's it so we we we have been uh you know beaten into this this bias of uh you know having well that maybe this maybe that's the wrong way to say it maybe that that's not the right saying but but uh somehow or another this fan base has been um tricked into at least I'm guilty of it you know just looking for for modest green shoots modest optimism modest hope to crack the Eastern Conference Finals at some point in time and every step towards that feels like you know achieving something without ever countenancing the real fact that this team hasn't won 50 games and this team is not anywhere near threatening for a title. No, you have the worst contract in the league. Not only in that last 40 years, you haven't won 50 games. You haven't even made a conference finals.

I would say the greatest moment probably of the last 40 years was a John Wall making the buzzer beater against the Celtics in round two and then jumping on the table? Or was it like Arenas versus LeBron in the playoffs? Yeah, Arenas versus LeBron was more fun

and Arenas at the height of his powers. Gilbert Arenas is the best player that the Wizards have had in 30 some years. I mean, it's not even close to my way of thinking about it. When heas at the height of his powers. Gilbert Arenas is the best player that the Wizards have had in 30-some years. I mean, it's not even close to my way of thinking about it. When he was at the top of his game, he was a top five player in the NBA. Yeah, if you go back, he had a stretch that was basically

the second half of one year and then the first half of the next year in the mid-2000s where he is on par with every guy from that era. Kobe, Vince, T-Mac, Iverson. His stats are ridiculous. And he's almost a prototype Harden. He had a game that fit that era

that was very much like James Harden in terms of an outside-inside kind of thing. He could get to the rim relentlessly, but he could also shoot from four feet behind the three-point line. Yeah, in 07. So even you could combine the two years, right? 06 and 07. He's 29 a game, 10 free throws a game, 9.9. Exactly. And 7.3 three-point attempts a game. So he really was kind of early adopter of Harden. You didn't ever answer the question, how did Ernie Grunfeld last for 16 years?

Because this is something I would ask you really intermittently every six months for the last 12 years that I've known you probably. What was the reason? What happened? He was the beneficiary of straddling two different ownership groups with two different philosophies. And so he essentially, you know, he was at the end of the Poland regime. And so he had all of those years to do his thing. And then Leonsis, when he took over the majority ownership, the team was in a rebuilding kind of mode.

So he had the benefit of all of those sort of ramp up years as years where it wouldn't make sense necessarily to fire the GM. I don't know how he survived the past six years. I don't have any explanation for it. Now, it is the case that he did hire Scot scotty brooks and the wizards did win 49 games two seasons ago and did come within you know a one-fourth quarter of advancing to the eastern conference finals you know a game seven against the celtics and you said i think that is the high mark high water mark in terms of the competitiveness of the franchise over the last 40 years. I don't think that's a, I mean, the 30, at least 30 years.

Does it hurt your feelings that I said on a podcast recently that the number one destination that I don't want for Zion is the Washington Wizards removing our friendship from the whole thing just as a basketball situation for Zion? I think it's the worst one. What are you, what's your rebuttal on that? Well, first of all, how could Washington be worse than Cleveland? How could this market? This is a beautiful basketball city

with an incredible basketball tradition at every level except for professional. We have, I would say, the best, most competitive high school basketball in the country here in the DMV. The three colleges have had various levels of success. I guess maybe it's a stretch to call Virginia part of the DMV. But certainly Georgetown and Maryland have had their successes

over the last 35, 40 years. Both of them have NCAA belts around their waist. You're talking about college basketball teams. What is the case for Zion of the Wizards to play with John Wall's $170 million contract? That would be terrible. This is a place that understands and appreciates basketball. And here's the thing. I'm very discombobulated at the moment,

to be honest, because I've been in an Ernie mindset. My expectations, we've talked about this, have been so gaslighted into this super low bar that I've been thinking about the NBA draft as something for other teams for the last 15 years. And creative free agency and creative contracts is something that other teams do. Finding European players that are going to come out and be productive players. I mean, the best example the Wizards have of a European player is my boy Sadoransky,

who's a perfectly viable backup point guard. But, you know, the Wizards dabbled. This is the lack of imagination. They tried twice in the first round over Ernie's tenure to draft European players. One of them was most well-known, Alexey Pesharov, for looking like Stewie from The Family Guy. And the other one, Jan Vesely, the sixth overall pick in 2011,

his most prominent contribution to the NBA was kissing his girlfriend on the draft night. So, I mean, this, this is like when you have that lack of imagination, that lack of success, that lack of,

of track record when it comes to the things that really distinguish GMs, then you start having very modest expectations. So I just don't know what to do, what to hope for. But I would say, who knows who the next GM is going to be and what the options are on the table. I don't know what it's like to have a normal GM who's creative and thoughtful and good at the draft. House.

Go ahead. Why don't you announce your candidacy i'm not even kidding never why never that's so disrespectful well first of all tommy tommy shepherd the current interim uh general manager um who i honestly think uh is reasonable candidate to get the the job i don't think it's fair to hang any of the ernie stink on tommy shepherd i think he's perfect he's as viable as any of the other names that are out there um you know david griffin's interesting the guy in houston's interesting there is like a list of names i think washington should be really appealing huh and joe house he's an interesting candidate you've been on the pod

the last 10 years proving your basketball knowledge who knows dc basketball better than joe house i well here's the thing uh about what i know versus what what would i be capable of i argued for and would continue to argue for um stretching john wall i would have stretched john wall as soon as that first injury occurred before the second injury. I would have stretched him after the second injury, and I would stretch him now. The Wizards are not going to stretch John Wall, at least next season, because there was a story that came out last week.

Are you aware that the NBA requires its teams to buy insurance on its players? And the way these insurance policies work, you get 80% of a player's salary. At the moment, the player misses 41 games. So the Wizards got 80% of John Wall's 19 point whatever million dollar contract. Next year, he's due for like a 38, 39 million dollar contract next year he's he's he's due for like a 38 39 million dollar contract when he misses his 41st game they're going to get 80 of that that's going to go to the ownership group it doesn't help the salary cap it doesn't help uh ticket prices it doesn't help you know uh buying a a david chang fuku chicken sandwich in the stadium, but it does help Ted Leonsis' wallet, so there's no scenario under which they're going to stretch him.

Well, you left out one thing. Go ahead. Don't you get an injury exception for half the salary or something? I think you do. I don't know. This is why I couldn't be the GM. I'm not aware of how that works. Yeah, you're right.

We didn't get it this season. We didn't get it this season. We didn't get it last season. He only played 40-some games last year. We didn't get any exception. Well, maybe they didn't want it. In any event. A creative GM. No, no. Alright.

I just Googled it. So, they got a disabled player exception for this year for $8.6 million for the rest of the season that they could use to trade for a player in the final year of his contract, whatever. They just decided not to use it. For next season, I bet it would be even more. Okay.

Well, to what end? To put bodies on the basketball course it's not going to be a competitive basketball team can I throw a trade at you go ahead as the new Wizards GM go ahead you get the number one pick in the draft

let's say on the lottery night which is very possible is it really possible it's like a 9% possibility. Yeah, it's under 10%. Yeah, 9%. I wouldn't call that very possible, but go ahead. I'll give you...

It's possible. One in 10 chance, maybe. It's possible. It's possible. I'll give you Gordon Hayward. All of my picks this year. And Tatum. For Wall and Zion.

Wow. Think about that. Just marinate on it. Marinate on that a little bit. Is there any chance John Wall comes back and is good again? Or you think the ship has just sailed? This is just going to end badly now? I mean, I don't say,

I'm not talking about the future. It has ended badly. It's over. It's done as far as I'm concerned. The dude has played 41 or less games each of the past two seasons. This is who he is. He tore his Achilles. There's no such thing as as uh john

wall all-star anymore that this is the this is why it's the single worst contract in basketball the answer is bad luck i mean some of it is you know the team's own uh internal assessment of likelihood of injury repeat and susceptibility to injury. And I guess you could criticize them for not anticipating recurring injuries in the knees. He was only healthy that one year, and that was it. Remember, they fixed the knee, and he felt great. It was the first time he'd been pain-free, all that stuff. And they won 49 games. And they won 49 games.

They won 49 games. Go ahead. I think if you make a push to be the Wizards GM, Stretch Wall would be your bumper sticker for it. Stretch Wall house in 2019. They're going to pay him the whole

thing next year so they can get 80% of $39 million. That's over $30 million so stretch 80 percent of the stretch yes that's what's gonna happen that's what's gonna happen stretch stretch after they collect on that insurance money so next year is a complete wash and that's why the trade that you're talking about is kind of interesting to me. Oh, good. Yeah, think about that one. I mean, it's kind of interesting. Like, what do we do with Zion? I just love Zion. I trade everybody in the team for Zion.

I love Zion. Sure, I get it. Of course. We have all these draft picks. What are we going to do with them? We just have more young players that aren't going to play? We got to make a move. I will say, though, Gordon Hayward last night, you know, I'm not a

jump to conclusions person with my own teams. If anything, I'm super, super critical about it. You've been very down on the Celtics team. Very down. I have no faith whatsoever. I will say what I saw from Gordon Hayward last night in the Miami game was genuinely eye-opening. And the first time all season that he looked like Utah Gordon Hayward. And here's why. Because he's had games where he's been more aggressive and he's shown flashes. This was the first time where he was like, give me the ball, let everything run through me. I'm attacking, I'm slashing, I'm not scared. I'm getting to the free throw line. I'm bouncing off dudes and I'm playing with pace. He had a rebound

with like three minutes left in the game yesterday, two, three minutes left where he just, he put the jets on and you forget like that guy's a really good athlete. He's fast. And we just haven't seen it. He's been in slow motion, fear and all understandable. And this was the first time yesterday where I was like, oh, this actually like that. This is this. This guy's an X factor for the playoffs. And I think he needs the ball. I think they need to play him. I would not play Marcus Morris anymore. I would not. I would give all of his minutes to Hayward and to jay lembran in the playoffs and i know marcus way to go out of the live you wouldn't play right you you

and brad stevens two of the the great basketball minds you wouldn't play marcus morris he plays 30 minutes a game and they're painful yeah he he was good for two months he He's been bad. Yeah, because he's bad. That's why. Here's the thing, though. We should do, we're old enough at this stage of our lives that we should have each and every time that we compare notes this season on the Celtics, tap the brakes and put a caveat on the Celtics' ultimate fortunes because it was so apparent

that Hayward was not ready. He's just, he's finally starting to get there. That's totally reasonable. The dude's leg broken half. I mean, his ankle almost fell off his body and it that's how long it takes. Like this is how long it took. It took a whole season for the leg to, to, to get healthy. And then it took a whole season for the leg to get healthy, and then it took a whole season for him to play basketball in the best league on the planet at a competitive level and feel comfortable again, and right now is the time. The only time that matters is right now. So, you know, the timing's worked out.

Maybe this was the plan all along, right? I think this is what Stevens was hoping for. I think he was hoping, I'm going to keep playing him. I'm going to keep playing him. I'm going to keep playing him. I'm not going to lose confidence in him. He actually cratered a little after the All-Star break, and it seemed like it was even making it worse than where we were before. But what we saw in the Miami game is who he is, is who they signed for $30 million a year, a guy who can slash,

who his game is three-point shots, slash, get to the free throw line, slash and kick outs. That's what he does. He's really good at it. Use some picks, go to the basket hard, either go to the rim or kick it out. He had 12 free throw

attempts last night, House. That tells me you're coming back. Yeah, that's like signing a new player right before the playoffs. Feels like it. So if you go through quickly, and I want to talk about MVP in a second, but if you go through all the playoff teams, he's the biggest X factor of anyone in the top of the top five East teams. I kind of know what I have with Milwaukee with whether or not when, if Brogdon can come back in time for round two, Toronto, I'm rooting for it. Toronto. We know what we have Philly. We know what we have for better and worse. And you know, that like Trey young torch them the other night.

And this is what I said to you when they traded for Harris, I felt like they were leaving themselves really vulnerable against any team that had a shifty playmaking point guard because i just don't think they have anybody on their roster that can guard somebody like that now they might get through the entire east without ever playing a guy like that but it's worth mentioning that that's a real hole for them um and the fact that that's the only that's a real hole for them. Well, and the fact that Kyrie, that's the only, that's the only guy that fits that bill in that's in front of them. Right. So if they see Kyrie and the Celtics have figured it out, they're not going to be able to guard them.

Now on the flip side, I don't know who he guards on Philly, Indiana. We know we have at this point, you go, you go through to the other, the other side, Golden State,

Denver, Houston, Portland, Utah, the clips. OKC is the only team I don't have a feel for right now in the top 8 in the West just because it doesn't seem like Paul George is healthy

but Hayward is the only guy in either conference that is just a fucking X factor because if he gets his shit together that's going to push the Celtics team up a notch. And the other thing is when he does well, and it's weird, cause it's been such like a me first team

and the chemistry has been so up and down, but when he does well, it really does affect them in a positive way. Like they really, they, it's such a good story. They're really rooting for him. And he has this effect of like, uh, you know, he'll make a couple of shots. He'll make a drive and the, and the team kind of feels like a team, which it doesn't. Well, that would, that's better than, than Kyrie, the self-appointed leader, uh, out there trying to tell guys what to do with all of his, uh, his basketball eminence and all,

all of his leadership chops. I don't want to talk about Kyrie. Um, all right. Hey, let's take a quick break. We're going to talk about, uh, our friends at Bud Light. They're keeping it real by putting an ingredients label on their packaging brewed with hops, barley, water and rice. No corn syrup. No preservatives, no artificial flavors. You know who else is keeping it real? Joe House. How many Bud Lights do you have at lunch? I'm only confessing to three. I mean, if we're keeping the blood alcohol content level to 0.07, I think three is in that neighborhood. Yeah, it was over the course of a couple hours.

You used a ride-sharing service. You're doing great. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Who's there? Doing great. 90-minute lunch. Exactly.

Come on. You know who else is keeping it real? Who's that? I've been re-watching Game of Thrones. Oh, wow. I'm through the third season. Daenerys, I would follow her into the fire what a leader

really just for what she pulled off she meets Drago somehow pulls off these dragon eggs has three dragons goes into this place gets a whole army behind her just keeps taking stuff I'd follow her I'd follow Daenerys.

She's keeping it real. Bud Light, reminding you to enjoy responsibly and keep it real. And we should also mention, we did a whole thing about, we did a Calloway par three event. First, the 101st Ringer Invitational. It was you versus me versus Scarface. We battled on the par nine, which was the famous par nine from Swingers, the movie with Vince Vaughn and Jon Favreau. Nine hole par three. Nine hole par three in Los Feliz. Is that how you say it?

Feliz? How do you say Los Feliz? Los Feliz. So I don't want to spoil it, but it's on the Ringer YouTube channel. Go to youtube.com slash Ringer, and you can watch Mainhouse play golf. You can see House with one of the worst putting stances ever.

Well, that's the problem. I had a brand-new putter. It was the first time I touched that putter. I hadn't made it mine yet. It was a first date between me and that putter. She was putting up all the defenses. She's not giving up three-footers, that new putter of mine. She looked at me like, well, look, you know, let's see.

Let's get to know each other a little bit better. There's a mutual attraction, sure. But it was a first date. She was not giving up any of that sweetness. She did not give up any of that sweetness, Bill Simmons. So now she's knocking on 12 footers for you. You can watch us play. She's in the bag.

Believe that. I made a nice putt off the fringe. Scarface made a couple of great shots. But anyway, you can watch all that on there. And don't forget about the Callaway, the epic flash driver, which has changed my life. And don't forget, speaking of that,

Fairway Roland presented by Callaway, where we did some Masters uh, masters predictions heading into next week. We're going to have pods next week. We're going to have a pod Sunday night, night of the masters, right? Right after it's over, you're doing a pod. Oh yeah. Um, we're going to give out some, some immediate conclusions. Yeah. And you're going to give out winners is what you're going to do on, uh, early in the week on fairway rolling. So yeah, that's next week. I think we have two pods coming up next week on fairway rolling a variety of guests a variety of input we're gonna try and give out some winners you got it great okay uh all right mvp check-in so we're at the the 78 to 79 game mark and i still

don't know who my mvp is but you have decided on yours who is it house i i haven't decided you you sent me a note saying you need to decide i i i'm here to tell you i haven't decided i will say this it has tightened up considerably since the last time we talked which i think was just a week ago um the fact that houston keeps on winning they jumped over that 50 win threshold which is is to me an absolute must have requirement. The only incident in which we had a team with an MVP, uh, without 50 wins in the last couple decades here was that awful, uh,

Russell Westbrook, uh, debacle. And that team still has, has won all of two playoff games since Kevin Durant, you know, hasn't got out of the first round of the playoffs. And I think maybe they won three playoff games since Durant left.

But in any event, the way that Houston is playing and his continued excellence, and I will say I've had the opportunity to do a little bit of research, start reading some stuff. Matt Moore of the Action Network did an incredible breakdown of the season that Harden has had. There are some stunning statistics that James Harden has achieved this year, both like big picture headline things like this, the second most points of the last 50 years, uh, in terms of point average. Uh, but also every advanced metric on the offensive side,

he's first in value over replacement player. That's the basketball reference one. First in offensive box plus minus. First in win shares. First in offensive win shares. First in real plus minus. No, second in real plus minus. Second in PER. Every advanced analytic loves him. of win shares first and real plus my i was no second real plus minus second in per like every

advanced analytic loves him the iso game that he has uh in terms of the the quantity of iso that is hit that step back jumper from three the quantity of those and his efficiency at that is literally unprecedented no other human being has ever done it. His scoring in the month of January is the most in the history of the NBA. He's done incredible things. The funny thing is, and we talked about this last week, he was on the team that started off slowly

at the beginning of the season and was grossly underperforming. He was playing those games. He wasn hurt in fact nobody was hurt at the beginning of the season on houston yeah they just suck he missed a while now he missed three games and yeah but but then he he kind of like just took things over himself and then they did have a couple injuries capella was out for a bit chris paul the predictable chris paul injury occurred and his he's getting credit i think at the moment and he deserves it for single-handedly saving their season and putting them right back up to the the very upper echelon of the west the problem i'm having having is Giannis should be the defensive player of the year.

Like he's one of the top two or three for defensive player of the year. And Giannis's offensive resume is impeccable as well. So I just don't know which way to go. How do you, do you reward the sustained excellence of Harden? So do you give Harden the MVP this year to make up for him being cheated out of it in 2017? And by some metrics, his 2017 season was better and Houston has been successful, successful, successful. Or do we reward the new guy on the scene? Milwaukee's going to end the season with the best record in the NBA. Their point differential is the best in the NBA. He's their best player. Shaq said this morning that Giannis is better than him,

better than Shaq at the same age. I don't know what to do. So, you mentioned Harden, and he was on the team. The worst record they had, I think, was 8-14. Since that. That's a bad record. Houston's I think, was 8-14. Since that. That's a bad record. Houston's not supposed to be 8-14 at any point. It wasn't.

And, you know, they had Carmelo was involved. Some dumb shit. It took a while for them to kind of figure it out. 53 games from the point that they were 8-14. I think they were like 39 and 14 in these games, something like that. 40 and 13, 39,

14. So the, the next 53 games after they fell to eight and 14, he averaged 39, get 39 points a game, seven rebounds, seven assists, um,

44, 36, 89. Where his shooting splits. Average 14 threes a game. Average 11.8 free throws a game. Only 4.6 turnovers somehow, even though he had the ball all the time.

And really wasn't playing with a lot of above average players. As you said, Chris Paul was out for a little while. Capello missed a few weeks. They signed Austin Rivers off the scrap heap. They traded for Farid, who hadn't played for two years. P.J. Tucker was really his best day-to-day teammate for

six months, who will never make an All-Star team. He was able to just fashion this contender out of his own skills. He's going to get to... Let's see, they are 51 and 28. So they're 53, 54 wins, which is a fair win total, I think, for the MVP. Now, the flip side with the case for Giannis, I'm glad you mentioned Shaq because I've been comparing Giannis and Shaq this whole year. I just feel like Giannis is Shaq because I've been comparing Giannis and Shaq this whole year. I just feel like Giannis is Shaq. They have nothing really in common and yet a lot of things in common, just like unbelievable freak athletes around the rim, unstoppable. Just when you're in the building with them,

it just feels like a unique experience. Their stats are very similar. I think Shaq's MVP season, his per 36 and Giannis' per 36 are basically the same. And then he's a much better defensive player, I think, than Shaq ever was. And I'm not sure his team is that great. I know they have the best point differential and the best advanced metrics. They're going to win the most games. But a lot of the guys he's playing with are people that anybody could have had, right? Like you could have traded, the Wizards could have traded for Bledsoe this summer. Brooke Lopez, anybody could have had.

Iliasova was available. Chris Middleton is really, you know, the only other all-star caliber player. He hasn't been lights out this season. He struggled the first half of the season. He's been better since. But it's not like he's playing with the 86 Celtics. So from a supporting cast standpoint,

Chris Paul is probably better than any teammate Giannis has. I think Giannis' team fits better. Houston's done a better job of fitting the right kind of team around Harden. And I think it's dead even. I think that I said this, I think last week, I think they're two awesome MVP campaigns. Like there is no loser. We just, for whatever reason,

we have a couple of great choices. And we had this, there's been years like this before, like 1987, Magic won the MVP. Larry Bird had his best season he had of his entire career he had just won three MVPs and did not deserve the MVP that year because of everything Magic did and then Jordan

I think averaged like 37 a game that year and then somebody else had a case too like sometimes we just have years where there's more than one MVP candidate so I'm with you I think it's got to come down to the wire. I want to wait all 82 games. I want to see how many games everyone wins. I want to really look at the total points for James Harden. Where is he going to end up for points per game?

You mentioned that this is the second highest point per game average anyone's had other than Jordan. I think that matters. I also think, you know, for me, a little philosophical, you and I love the MVP. We argue about this every year. I did a whole book where I had a whole MVP chapter about trying to rectify the MVP travesties. If you haven't read the book of basketball, check that out. I think it matters if something significant happened during the MVP season.

And in this case, we had two significant things, right? Giannis became the Shaq for this generation. He became Shaq 2.0 or Shaq, you know, futuristic Shaq, whatever you want to call it. Not to mention the best story the league has, like from where he grew up and all that stuff. And now he got to the league and, you know, how he grew, they draft him, he grows three inches. That's one of the things when people talk about,

oh, this team could have picked Giannis, that team could have picked Giannis. I did that draft, Giannis was 6'9", now he's seven feet. I'm pretty sure he would have gone higher than the 14th pick or whatever if people knew he was going to grow to become 7 feet. Right, House? For sure that, but

it's also like a sign of it's more art than science, the NBA draft, because who knows what kind of baggage he's bringing over from his experience. He hasn't played any basketball. Who knows whether or not it's going to make sense for him.

You can't guess what his work ethic is going to be. It could be all. It turned out to be incredible baggage, like the stories of him locking himself in the gym at the convent, you know, his first year of the season. And it turned, you know, him not knowing anybody and not really having any friends, the way that he processed that because of the kind of guy he is, he turned all of that energy, all that free time, into trying to become the best basketball player he could be,

and God blessed him with an incredible body and gifts for the current version of this NBA. So good on Milwaukee for taking that risk. And he has the work ethic, which you just never know. There's a lot of luck involved with the pick, but they have done everything right by him since he showed up and he's done everything right. And it really sucks that he might not win the MVP because he deserves to win it. Then you look at Harden, we're talking about one of the most offensively significant seasons of the last 50 plus years. And somebody who now symbolizes where the NBA has gone, what people value. He's basically created this new form of offense that I look at somebody like RJ Barrett on Duke,

who I now think is underrated. If you put him in this style offense that Houston has and you surrounded him with shooters, I actually think he could be really, really good. I think part of the problem with Duke was they didn't have the shooters. But if Harden was surrounded by people who couldn't shoot, he would not be putting up

these stats. And I think he's kind of reframed how I thought about what's the best way to put a team together. Because we've had guys with individual skills like this before. He's been the best and most efficient version of it since Jordan. but it also really helps that they have continually put guys around him that make sense with how he's playing. Now, a lot of people don't like it. Don McLean, the Clippers announcer, was having a hissy fit this week when the Clippers were just getting killed by the Rockets. And he's basically saying, this isn't basketball. I don't like this. I can't say I love it. At the same time, I really respect how talented he is in his footwork. And also, I really respect how he's

gotten better on defense. He's not like Jordan in the early 90s, but he's way more active. He's in much better shape and he's getting his hand on a lot of balls. And he's averaging two steals a game. And he's high up there. Yeah, right. Two steals a game house, which I don't know. That means you're moving around. You're trying. I don't know if he's a lockdown guy, but you know, hey, you know what I did?

I was researching this. Did you know that he was on Oklahoma City? They traded him. Did you know that he was on Oklahoma City? They traded him. Did you know that? Apparently, they made the finals in 2012. They had, listen to this team house, Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. They're all on the same team with Serge Ibaka.

And then they decided they're going to trade Harden. Did you know that? I'm too drunk to play along. All I can do is laugh. It's too funny. It's too funny. So what do you think? It's never not funny.

You're 52% Harden, 48% Giannis, it sounds like, 55, 45? I'm 50.1% Harden, 49.9% Giannis, and the only distinguishing factor is the fact that Harden was cheated in 2017, and Giannis should have the next, knocking on wood, you hear me knocking on wood here? He should have at least the next 12 years to to win six mvps and i think you know you know the basketball writers better than i do the guy the the folks uh the guys and gals that have votes the basketball media you know that better that than i do i feel like just from an observational standpoint they're going to reward

the og there will be a slight, slight, slight preference for the OG in Harden just because he's older. And folks will take notice of Giannis and say, this dude has nothing but MVP staring at him in the future. He's going to get all of his coming up. That's the only hair I can split here. Last four years for Harden, 31 a game, nine assists, six and a half rebounds. I mean, it's honestly one of the best four-year stretches we've had by an offensive player. It's on the short list of you're talking Bird in the mid-80s. You're talking whatever four-year magic stretch you want to do. Jordan, obviously.

Will Chamberlain. Kareem. We're talking about... This is a short list of prowess that I'm not even sure Duran is on. Well, let me ask you this. This is the other thing I was... The other way I was trying to split this hair is as I'm sitting here today, who do I think will lead their team further

in the playoffs? And I can't even come up with a good answer for that. The East is wide open, but I don't know that that necessarily helps Milwaukee because I think Milwaukee could lose, definitely lose to Toronto, definitely lose to the Celtics and maybe lose to the, to the Sixers and Houston, you know, depending on the matchup, like what if they get the Utah in the first round? And I think it's set up that way right now. Like, yeah, I'd be very nervous playing Utah right now. That's the one team just because they have the rim protector, which screws it up a little bit. Plus the Donovan Mitchell hot streak potential.

I like the way Utah's playing right now. So I don't know if that cuts one way or the other. It's another like 50-50 thing to me between Giannis and Harden. I'm just trying to come up with categories to distinguish them. And I'm just not getting anywhere with it. Well, I guess.

So we had the All-Star game, right? Giannis is against LeBron. They're picking teams. Harden didn't go until like the seventh pick. Remember that? That was weird. That's not weird. He wants to play with the guy that shoots every time, even if he makes it.

You still want to play with guys that you're going to have fun with. So then that should be advantage on us. Okay. That's well, if you, you, you get a vote. So you're splitting hairs. And if you, one of your criteria for the MVP of the national basketball association is which guy would I more like to play with You're by all means, please vote on that basis. Yeah, I'm going to really,

I need to marinate on this for another week. I'll have an answer next week. I got the ballot, I think yesterday. There's also the LeBron James, whether he should be 13 on the air or not question, which 50, 55 games on a losing team. I just feel like no time to send him. What's the point?

Why, why, why would you reward? What's the, what, what distinguish it? Uh, LeBron's,

uh, performance this year. Well, the problem is, um, if Aldridge is a center, which he's played like 85% of his games, he's been at the center spot.

So you can't put him at forward. There's really no six forward to put in instead of LeBron. You're looking at people like Gallinari. And I don't feel right about that. Yeah. No chance. I'm telling you, it drops off fast. So you're stuck in another one of these silly,

because of the categories of position, a silly outcome is going to be produced. Yeah, I mean, really, it would be easier if we could put Beal at forward. That would be easier. But he's been playing guard, you know? Well, no, he's in the East. Are you going to vote Bradley Beal onto your all-NBA third team? I don't think so.

I think I have to stick to, if I'm not voting LeBron because he's on a losing team and he didn't play enough games then I have to carry that across the board so I got to figure that out what's weird is Kyrie is probably a second team all NBA and I can't believe I'm saying that because he's been one of the most frustrating guys

I've ever watched but his statistical case is almost unassailable his stats are unbelievable almost unassailable. His stats are unbelievable. If you look at his clutch stats, his shooting stats, he's by far having the best year of his career. Every metric. And yet I also, from the eye test and the effect he had on the team, it's a really tough All-NBA. And I also, I got to say, Jokic getting his ass kicked by Cousins the other night wasn't great either for the Jokic case. Cousins torched him and taunted him afterwards.

Like, that was not great. So I think I'm going to have Embiid first team and also third MVP choice would be my guess. But we'll go over this next week. What's wrong with that? We'll go over it next week. We'll go over it next week. I'm on my final picks next week house. Congrats on finally getting rid of Ernie.

Congrats on throwing your hat in the ring as the next wizards GM. I hope they take it seriously and, uh, and good luck with all the fairway rolling podcasts. Yeah. Congrats on, on, uh, four bud light, three bud lights. I only had three bud lights at lunch And yeah, we'll be back. There's going to be so much golf next week. The Masters is here.

The Azaleas are in bloom. And something else is in bloom on my body. But I think it's the right time for me to bid you farewell. Bye, house. Before we get to Colin Farrell, let's take a break to talk about Hotel Tonight. This winter is a great time to check out Hotel Tonight, whether you want to take a spontaneous ski trip or escape to a warm beach before it gets super nice. We're still not

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All right, it's time for me, Chris Ryan, and the one and only Colin Farrell. All right, Colin Farrell's here. Chris Ryan is here. We're excited for this one. Thanks, man. We've enjoyed your career. Thank you. To say the least. You say it likerell's here. Chris Ryan is here. We're excited for this one. Thanks, man. We've enjoyed your career. Thank you.

To say the least. You say it like it's over. No, yeah, no. We've enjoyed it. It's been a fun century with you. Stepping away into the sunset. You've been doing these things for these, what do they call these, junkets?

This isn't really a junket, though. I don't feel like it's a junket, yeah. It's a little tour. It's a little interview tour. It's a press tour. Yeah, so you like this stuff? No, not at all. What's the best part about it?

The best part is traveling. Like I got to go to Tokyo last week. Oh. Only two nights. You don't see much, but you certainly see a lot more Tokyo than you would if you were in Los Angeles. Are you just stuck in a hotel the whole time?

No, for the majority of the day. There was, let me see, we arrived, we arrived, we had three nights. We arrived late one night, slept that night, did a whole day of press. So we were six, eight hours in the hotel the next day, did a screening that night. And then the next day we did a couple of things, took about two hours. And then we had the rest of the day just to walk around and get some ramen and have a little look at some cherry blossoms.

That's nice. Tokyo's beautiful. That's the best part of it by a mile for me. I mean... Gone in different countries. Yeah, I have no desire to talk about... I love talking about films, about other people's films.

I love films. I've always loved films. I love talking about aesthetic and performances and where a film got me or where it didn't get me. But talk about... That's what we're going to do on this podcast. Cool, man.

Let's talk about other people's... That's what we do. Let's talk about other people's work. We can talk about other movies. We're going to about other people's work we can talk about other movies we can talk about yours but we'll talk about other ones so what were the

formative movies for you when you were growing up what were the ones that made you want to be an actor the formative ones the ones I remember

most like in my early childhood and then into my teens were the Indiana Jones and Spielberg played a huge part in my life

as a lover of film, I suppose. Fan of film when I was a kid. So E.T. was the first memory I have of a film in the cinema. Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's the first memory I have. It's still in the argument for top five all time. E.T.? Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. It's got to be at least discussed.

Extraordinary, yeah. Extraordinary film. Cried, cried, cried. So hard watching watching it had such an emotional kind of outpouring. And I was thinking recently, and someone asked me about that experience and it really did allow me to have, um, to have a,

yeah, an emotional outpouring, uh, to feel my own, uh, ridiculous humanity at the age of six or seven in relation to the emotional life

that lived inside me in a way that I wasn't allowed in the house I grew up in or I wasn't allowed in school. I just felt like I had this permission to just feel and to express my feelings, which, you know,

culminated in just Kleenex, box of Kleenex being used in a matter of mere minutes, as soon as the flower started to wilt towards the end. Um, so that was my first memory. And then, you know, Indiana Jones. Yeah. Just loving Indiana Jones, escaping Indiana Jones, Roger Moore as, as Bond. Yeah. Um, yeah, absolutely. I get the argument for Sean Connery being the best. And certainly that argument was clearer pre-Daniel Craig era. But just, it's a case of who do you grow up in?

Where does your nostalgia lie? And my nostalgia lies still to this day with Roger Moore and the twinkle in his eye. That was my first bond too, was Roger Moore. So I always feel like kind of ties to him. Yeah, a little protective of him. He was never really too much of a threat. Right.

Yeah, I think that I grew up watching the Connery movies around my house. But I think there's like the bond you see when you're like 13 or 14 is the bond that you're going to remember always. Which I think is why people get, you know, instantly kind of aggressive when they hear that a remake is being done of a film

that meant something to them in their childhood. Yeah. Because it feels like somebody's pissing all over your youth or pissing all over the validity of your opinion, the opinion that you had when you were 12 or 14 that you still carry with you as an adult, I think. Yeah. Well, you went through that with Total Recall. Yeah, a little bit.

Because you had a whole bunch of people like, why are you doing this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why? We like the old ones. Stop. I was kind of one of them. To be honest with you. So I had this kind of struggle between being a fan,

like a real lover of the original. Yeah. I used to love all Schwarzenegger stuff as well, man. Me too. You know, Running Man is classic stuff. Yeah, yeah. So that one they could remake. Running Man would- I feel like Running Man could come back.

I feel like they unintentionally have remade Running Man with like modern society. Like, you could tell me Running Man was actually on. Anything that says post-apocalyptic is borrowed from us. But just even if I turned on the television one night and Running Man was on, I don't know that I wouldn't believe it. Like if it was a reality TV show produced by LeBron James. This guy's getting chased.

There's no doubt that shit's been pitched already. It just hasn't got the green light yet. I think there is like a Russian show where it's like, this guy dies, yeah. It just hasn't got the green light yet. I think there is like a Russian show where it's like, this guy dies. Yeah, it just hasn't got the green light. Who dies at the end? If there's a second term, just, you know, you got about another five years to get that one in. That's right. Yeah, I would be okay with remaking that one.

I mean, the Predator one was interesting. Yeah. But it is funny to be old enough to remember the original versions of a lot of these movies. I just get really freaked out with all the anniversary celebrations. Yeah. Because they just creep up on you or you don't, because I'm 41. And now there are things that, you know, I'll remember parts of my life. I was like, oh, I was living in New York in the early 2000s.

And now those movies are all getting there. Yeah, what did we go and see recently outside this summer? Just passed in, was it San Pedro? I can't remember, but we went to see somewhere down south. E.T., I think the 25th anniversary of E.T. God, it's all going way too fast. We're doing it this week at the site that we have. We're doing a whole celebration of all the movies from 1999.

It's like Fight Club and Eyes Wide Shut. The Matrix. The Matrix. Blair Witch Project. It was like one of the great movie years. Sixth Sense. Fight Club was amazing. Sixth Sense was amazing.

A lot of good sports movies that year, but it was a lot of people throwing their fastball. Ice White Shot and Magnolia. Yeah. Magnolia. I mean, anything P.T. Anderson does, you know. Did you work with him? No, I'd love to.

I'd love to. He's the only stock answer I have when I'm asked, what filmmaker would you like to work with? I don't really have a list I'm a fan of so many filmmakers but he's the only one

that I just have a stock answer I just pull it out yeah so ever since Heart of Eight and Magnolia and Boogie Nights and then even

his more austere work of recent you know there seems to have been a sea change in his work from The Master and Are There Will Be Blood was just

a film that I I was so blown away by the extraordinariness of it but I also felt that's how powerful it was I felt

kind of sick at the end of it yeah like Daniel Plainview sickness you know really and I remember I had it

shown over to my house and I had about 12 mates over back in the days when I had 12 friends and I and I stood up shown over to my house and I had about 12 mates over back in the days when I had 12 friends. And I stood up at the end of the film. I said, that is a piece of genius

and I never want to see it again. I've since changed my mind. I haven't seen it again. I will at some stage, but I just think he's an extraordinary filmmaker. Did you see the last one he did? I loved it.

He came in. He came on this podcast. Talk about it. It was awesome. Oh man, I thought it was just beautiful. The first 10 minutes of it, I just was dizzy with the symphonic element of the camera moving and what he was capturing i just he's daniel day lewis was really throwing 100 miles an hour in

that movie he was so good i mean he still has it where every it's like the world cup like he makes something every four years and he's gotta watch it it's like it is it's an event yeah gotta you know take my hat off to it you've done different versions of that right you've got to watch it. It's like, it is, it's an event. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Take my hat off to it. You've done different versions of that, right? You've been, you were doing like big market movies, but now, now you seem like you're in this zone where you're just doing things for you.

I just feel like I'm, I just feel like I'm floating, man. I feel like I'm floating between genres. I'm floating between scale of films, you know? So what's driving you at this point? Just the part? Like like what are you looking

at when you look at a script there's a few things that drive me a need to provide for my family drives me um still it's not what it may seem from the outside looking in there's that it's a job but just talking creatively self-servingly in regards to my creative engine or curiosity, what drives me is, is the unknown, really. I mean, that's when it's most interesting. When the unknown meets a curiosity, a curiosity that you might not have even known you had. Like I read The Killing of a Sacred Deer

and I go, what in God's name is this about? What's it trying to say? Is it trying to say anything? Is it just a set of circumstances piling one after another after another to build and ratchet up the tension in the 90 minutes that it's going to last? What is the allegorical component of it?

But once I start being confused by something in that vein, then the ink is nearly on the paper. You know what I mean? But it's not always that you get that. So it's different things. Like Dumbo, working with Tim Burton, the desire to work with Tim Burton drove me, purely. And then on a film that was so earnest and sweet

and had such a lovely message at its center, was gorgeous, was kind of a, you know, was gilding the lily, but just working with Burton, having been a fan of his for 30 plus years and growing up watching Edward Scissorhands and Beetlejuice and all those things I mean sure that was a dream come true for me did you what'd you learn from him what was the number one thing you learned watching I don't know what I learned from it it's very hard to say would you you know

anytime I see somebody that's been around as long as he's been around or been around as long as Pacino had been around when I did the recruit with him four lifetimes ago yeah when you see that their level of passion I can't compare their level of passion today to what it was 30 years ago, but it's still astonishing to see the level of engagement that someone like Tim Burton has in the whole process of creating the worlds that he creates. His attention to detail, his entire kind of consummation in relation to the project was pretty impressive. I'd watch him behind the monitor

and he'd be, like, full-on ugly face, acting with all the actors and then they'd say, cut, need, and then walk onto the set and give his notes, you know. And he was just,

he's a beauty, that man. He's just every cell in his body vibrates with creative energy. He really does.'s he's pure eccentric magic he really really is do you still get surprised when you walk on sets yeah because there's still stuff that happens on a movie set you're like oh crap i've never i mean it's a pretty familiar place to me now while respecting that every set has its own tone and energy and pace and all that jazz but on the sets of

Dumbo I did find myself pinching myself a couple of times yeah for sure because of the scale of the sets and the beauty of the sets and like I'd walk onto

the big set did you see the film? No we didn't there's a there's a there's a scene halfway through the film when we leave

our little podunk circus and we align ourselves with the darkness that is Michael Keaton's character. And we have an introductory scene as we're brought into his new big fandangled theme park. And I used to walk that set on my own every now and then. It was just the most extraordinary piece of craftsmanship and imagination come to life. And at any given day, like when we were shooting that scene of us arriving into this theme park and there was people on the left and right, fathers and mothers and their children and balloons and candy cane. And there was a 20 piece brass band and 10 people on horseback. And there was 20 Ford Model T cars from the period, 600 extras all going at the same time.

And this was inside a building. This wasn't even outside. It was the weirdest thing. You'd walk 10 o'clock in the morning, sun's beating outside, an hour outside of London. And you'd walk after having your breakfast into this dark, cavernous, monolithic space. And there would be all this life and imagination coming to life. And I got a tear in my eye the first day I arrived on the set. That's like Cecil B. DeMille stuff. Really, man, it was so, it was like Orson Welles said, you finally get to play with the biggest train set in the world. It was extraordinary, really. There was a lot of CGI in the film, of course.

There's an awful dearth of flying elephants in the world at the moment. So we had to stretch the realms of reality there. But everything that you can kind of see within 50 yards of any of the action in the film was all there. Well, you've worked with a bunch of famous actors. Is it easier to work with a famous actor when you're not famous yet or when you're an established person? Is it easier to work with a famous actor when you're not famous yet? When you're like the unproven guy trying to catch up or when you're actually a peer. That's a really good one.

Like what was it like to do recruit with Pacino? Yeah, and you're basically like, you haven't proven yourself to him yet, but you also have nothing to lose. I mean, no, it's a really good question. I mean, I've worked with, it depends. It depends on how much, it depends on how much focus you give to the other.

Yeah. It really does. I just realized realized because i've worked with i've worked through the years i remember one actor on this film i did london boulevard and he was extraordinary and he came in he did one scene and he was amazing and i just thought i couldn't compete with him now i shouldn't be i shouldn't even be thinking of competing with him it's not supposed to be a competition it's supposed supposed to be some, you know, parallel mutual experience of bringing a story to life through listening and sharing and

listening and sharing and being affected by and are not. Yeah. But I don't know. I, through the years, have paid less attention to the other in the form of competition. Yeah. So now I get excited when somebody comes in to do one or two days and I don't know who they are. I get excited to see what they'll bring

to the table. And I don't know who they are. I get excited to see what they'll bring to the table. And I don't get too nervous working with established names. Chris and I are competing right now. You can't see it. No, no, no. It's a duel. There's a whole little mind game going on right now with us. The air is thick with tension. I noticed it as soon as I walked in.

Because you worked with, when was Minority Report? That was like 2002? And you're working with cruise and he's the biggest star in the world and yeah and you're on set with spielberg yeah yeah yeah i might have oh yeah spielberg your hero i might have felt a bit of pressure on that one but i was also you know i was i was cocky as anything back then and i was yeah and i i honestly it's like straight up i wasn't very sober ever yeah like if i wasn't if I wasn't, if I didn't have a buzz going, I had the nervousness and the kind of strange ethereal high

that comes with the next day thing. There's a confidence in a hangover. You know, yeah, absolutely. Confidence that touches madness. Yeah. Which doesn't really hinder the creative process. I mean, maybe, I'll never know what work I would have done if I was more straight, but, um, but no, I was, I was a bit nervous. I was nervous. I'm always nervous going to work. I like fear is not an enemy to me at all. You know,

to this day, uh, I'm fairly hard on myself and, you know, it's something that's quotidian. It's, it defies any kind of conventional mathematical measurements. So it's always interpretation. And sure, there's nobody that could interpret my worth as cruelly as I could interpret it myself at times, you know? What do you remember about those five years before you went into rehab? Like, did stuff blur together? Because you made a lot of movies.

You hosted SNL. Yeah. You were in the mix with stuff. SNL, I can't remember much of that week, to be honest with you. Really? Honestly, I can't remember much of the show. I can't remember much of that week.

I remember, I know, I have the feeling that I had a good time. Yeah. That has lingered through the mists of time and sobriety. But I can't remember much of that week. I don't remember much of Miami Vice. Oh, we wanted to talk about Miami Vice.

At all, sure. I don't remember much of it Vice. Oh, we wanted to talk about Miami Vice. At all, sure. I don't remember much of it at all. I mean, when I saw the film, there were some scenes, it was interesting because I could kick back and watch them as if it was the first time I had anything seriously.

You're like, who's this guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. He's making some great choices. He's got a mustache. He's killing it. Who chose that mullet? But no, I remember,

I remember my initial arrival here very much. But yeah, it all kind of blends in. It was a very foggy time and it was just a lot. Look, the smallest violin in the world shouldn't play for the loneliness or the sense of dislocation or the kind of the guilt that can come with success. Yeah. It comes so fast. You know, it's not a poor me at all.

But just to be honest with you, it was a lot for me personally to experience. Like I see, I hear about Justin Bieber. He's taking a bit of time or whatever. I go, God bless him. Go for it. It's a lot.

Again, I'm not saying sad story. Poor Justin. I know there's people starving in the world. I know there's people living under greater duress and hardship than Justin or myself back in the day or whatever. I get it.

I get it. But it's a lot. It's a lot to give a child, you know, to give a young man. How old are you? You're like 22 or three. I get it. But it's a lot. It's a lot to give a child, you know, to give a young man. How old are you? You're like 22 or three. I was a young man,

but I was 22 or three. Who knows what, how you gauge someone's emotional development, but I was maybe 12 some days, seven other days, 17 other days, you know. I also remember when Tigerland came out,

it was like, this is the fucking guy. Like, yeah. It was mad. It was mad this is the fucking guy like it was mad it was mad you didn't do like a lot of time in the minors

no no no I earned about 30 grand for Tigerland yeah I earned 375 grand for my second film was that SWAT no

that was American Outlaws okay and I earned 2.5 million dollars for my third film Jesus I mean that's insane I was 22 or 3 I was getting invitations to the Playboy Mansion 2.5 million dollars for my third film. Jesus. I mean that's insane.

I was 22 or 3. I was getting invitations to the Playboy Mansion. My head was on a swivel. You know. And I I think pretty quickly just because I didn't know how to

I had no I had no relationship to that degree of fame in my life. I didn't see it growing up. I didn't have anyone that I saw handle it in any way

good or bad. I didn't have any cautionary tales that were close to me. I didn't see it growing up. I didn't have anyone that I saw handle it in any way, good or bad. I didn't have any cautionary tales that were close to me. I didn't have any decent example of how to, you know, generate an integrity or sense of dignity that was close to me. So I was just figuring it out, you know, myself as a young kid doing all the things the majority of 22 year olds would have done, but I always had a voracious appetite. So. So it was like I always, from the time I started drinking when I was 14 or carousing or whatever, I always had a big engine. So that engine just got stuffed with opportunity and opportunity. And so, you know, I ended up, but I lost, the thing was I lost sight of, I lost sight of just the really little pure spark.

And you guys, I'm sure have your own version of this, of why you do what you do. You know, yeah, you got to provide as well for whoever you have to provide for, but there's something that allows you, I assume, to do something that you're doing for your livelihood, but also engenders a great deal of passion, which can ebb at times, we get. But for me, I totally lost sight of, and that was what I realized in Miami Vice, I totally lost sight of how excited I felt when I did my first acting workshop when I realized in Miami Vice. I totally lost sight of how excited I felt when I did my first acting workshop when I was 16 or 17. Was that because of the particular circumstances around Miami Vice

or was that just because of the... You were going downhill. Yeah, it was a cumulative thing. It was just years of... I mean, I traveled a lot. And look, I missed, I missed weddings at home. I missed funerals at home. I missed really important community, family, friend experiences that, you know, are day-to-day things, but in, in the total lacking

of them in a person's life, it, it, it hurts, you know, it hurts you emotionally. It hurts you know it hurts you emotionally it hurts you psychologically and I was I was on the road I was on the road for pretty much it was a six or seven year chapter in my life

yeah but when you talk about like the tiny violin thing yeah see I think this stuff is fascinating and it's something that you know

obviously we care about sports and pop culture that's what we cover at The Ringer and we're into and it's a lot of the same obstacles. Let's talk boxing. Well, it's the same obstacles, right?

Where you have, in the NBA, you have some kid who's 20 who comes in the league who all of a sudden he's making $7 million a year. So much. And he's got all these people in his life who want something from him. Sure. And all of a sudden he's being recognized

everywhere he goes. And he's got all these pressures that he'd ever had before. And some people don't handle it well. And I think Hollywood, that's been a recurring theme for 100 years yeah i mean i i suppose i i without knowing it i vacillated somewhere between needing it to a certain degree or wanting it um no i think needing it to a certain degree needing it meaning like what is fame what what does fame to the majority of us represent?

Certainly in our younger ages and maybe our relationship to it matures, regardless of how close or how distant it is to us, maybe just as a result of contemplation. But as children, fame equals acceptance. Acceptance, money and women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you could say money and women equal acceptance, how we process them. Right. So acceptance is the linchpin to which all these kind of reaches that human beings make through their lives are contingent upon our desire to be accepted. And so I obviously had that to get on. I mean, I was an actor. I went to theater school. I was kind of serious about the journey of being an actor initially. And then all this stuff, I got on the plane, I came to Los Angeles and all this stuff happened really fast where the swell of attention and what felt like acceptance, um, was so much more aggressive and so much more apparent because it was so big. It's just a lot of energy than even

my own passion. I didn't have enough. I didn't have enough history exploring my passion. I didn't do five years of theater and two years of television and four small films in Ireland. I didn't have enough of a personal relationship with acting. I had done it for three or four years, and all of a sudden I was at the center of these American films. So I just didn't. So you would have been better off ending up on ER as a doctor for three years,

just kind of getting work and then getting a chance. Who fucking knows? Because it's like what happened to you is like only happens once every 10 years. Like it happened to you and Matthew McConaughey

where it's like never heard of the guy to like the pace with which it happened. Honestly, the pace with which it happened. Julia Roberts had happened to when she did Pretty Woman

and was the biggest star in the world all of a sudden. She had been in like two movies before that. Yeah, no, it's very rare. And Julia sustained it with interesting work and good choices and things working out in her favor. But she struggled for a couple of years too.

She did? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's hard. After Pretty Woman? Well, the other thing that, yeah. And the other thing we didn't even mention is, you know, when you're up there and you make a movie that maybe isn't that good and you're getting critiqued for the first time and there's all these other

things that are like, whoa, I thought I was great. Wait. And then you have all that. Or else you never thought you were great and you're feeling, oh, now they're being honest about me. Now they're onto me. Now they see what I've always felt myself, but I didn't need to check in with because everyone was saying that I was something else that I wasn't, that nobody is, that it's all an illusion. I mean, that's what I've learned in the years. It's all just an illusion. The fame thing, the idea of success is so subjective. You know, honestly, I mean, the idea of someone says, well, you're a success. What does that even mean? What do they know about my life?

What do they know about me as a man, as a father, as a friend? What am I like as a brother? You know, You know, what do I feel about my own worth? All those things, like surely they are more meaningful than any kind of thing that could give somebody from the outside looking in a perspective on how successful or unsuccessful my life is. Likewise, somebody saying you're not successful. What the, you know, what does anyone know? Does that feeling change how you relate to things like athletes or like, or pop?

I have massive respect for athletes. Look, I was going to be an athlete. I thought I was going to be an athlete until I was 14. What were you going to do? My dad was a professional football player, soccer, and his brother as well. And they played for Shamrock Rovers back in the day when Shamrock Rovers were a big team. And even on the European stage. And he played for Ireland a couple of times.

And that was what I thought until I was about 14 I was going to do. What position were you? I was all over the place, to be honest with you. I played striker. I had a couple of good years that was what I thought until I was about 14 I was going to do what position were you I was all over the place to be honest which I played striker a couple of good years at striker and then I went left

half kind of left side defensive midfielder and then I ended up in goals I worked on my way back down the pitch it's a story of my life my jack of all

trades master but yeah that was what and boxing I've been an avid fan of boxing all my life never boxed but been a I have enormous respect for athletes and for the singularity. Look, the success, any kind of perceived success for me and what I do is contingent upon so many people saying it's a success or it's not.

I mean, that's just it. It's two things. It's the public going to see your work and enjoying it or not enjoying it. And it's critics saying your work is worthwhile or not worthwhile. And the beautiful thing, the purity of sports is something that art,

nor should it compete with, but will never be able to touch the purity of sports. And there's a definitive winner and loser. Just definitive winner and loser. The, you know, team sports are one thing. The singularity of some sports, none more of gut gut-wrenchingly perilous to the individual as boxing but also tennis you know there are sports where it's just i mean i can't imagine you know it's just person against person the mano a mano it's just it's amazing to me and it's just brilliant

and the boldness of spirit that reveals itself in sport finds it hard to to to work its way into the arena of art what is in ireland what are the what are the rankings for most popular sports right now i think soccer still won yeah i would say so and then as mcgregor changed mma nah not really no i would say I would say soccer rugby rugby and I would imagine those are more popular

and I could be wrong than our national sports of Gaelic football and hurling which are hugely popular sports and get massive sellout crowds of 40 and 60 thousand regularly at games

they're incredibly popular have you been to one of those? when I lived in Ireland I lived in Cork for six months oh did you? yeah in 99 I was there in Cork for six months. Oh, did you? Yeah. In 99, I was there. In Cork City?

Yeah. Cork's a great place. Yeah, it was really fun. Did you get down to the coast at all? A little bit, yeah. Did you go down to the Bear Peninsula? Yeah, yeah. Did you go to Castletown Bear?

Yeah. Did you really? Yeah. So you had a pint of McCarthy's Coke? That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was quick, wasn't it? It was like Galway.

Ding, ding, ding. I did Galway, I did Dublin, and we did a lot of like, yeah. Dublin's a great town. The West Coast is beautiful. Ding, ding, ding. I did Galway. I did. Galway's great. Dublin. And we did a lot of like, yeah. Dublin's a great town. The West Coast is beautiful. That'd be, yeah. All the places I've traveled, the West Coast, South West Coast of Ireland and Big Sur up there.

I gotta do this. I've never done it. You've never been to Ireland? Oh, you would love it. Do you play golf? I'm 25% Irish. I don't play golf. Do you play golf?

I do. Oh, I mean, it just gets better. That's why I have to go. I'm 25% Irish. I feel like I have to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Do the Irish celebrities, is there like a text chain that you guys are all on? No, no, no.

Like you and Bono and Edge, McGregor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not the biggest demographic in the world. But for a population of four and a half million people, God. Yeah. We do all right, man. Yeah. We do okay.

I mean, seriously, LA is probably, what, five times the size of Ireland? How big is LA now? It's definitely... 15 million, 20 million? It feels like it takes as long to drive across Los Angeles as it does to drive across Ireland.

Yeah, yeah, it's about that. It depends. If you're coming from Mancino and rush hour traffic, it's about the same coast to coast at home. Small island. Have you met the U2 guys?

Yeah, yeah, I know all the boys, yeah. So what happens? What do you mean, what happens? Yeah, they get on stage I know all the boys, yeah. So what happens? What do you mean, what happens? Yeah, they get on stage, they do their thing and you're lucky enough you got a little VIP pass

to the old, you know. All right, we're going to talk Miami Vice. Okay. We should prep him about like, yeah. So we do this, one of the podcasts

we do here is called The Rewatchables where we rewatch movies that we love. And last year we did Miami, or was it this year or last year? Last year. We did Miami Vice.

Cause. 90 minutes long. Him and I both feel like it's an. It's a 90 minute cut. It's a 90 minute podcast. Oh God. I was going to say. So is Michael Mann doing an Oliver Stone,

Oliver cut five versions of Alexander. He was so demented. Oh my God. I remember that. Yeah, totally. So we felt like it was this underrated classic but we just felt like

it was us and then there's like on the internet there's this whole thing I know I'm aware of that and it's become like this a cult classic belated classic

told ya just like you drew it up yeah yeah so you don't remember just cause I don't remember doesn't mean I don't think it was a classic so you don't remember

that much from it not that much no I mean I remember it was a tough think it was a classic. So you don't remember that much from it? Not that much. No. I mean, it was a tough shoot. It was a tough, long shoot. It was like a legendary shoot. Some pretty wild shit happened, right? You're in Cuba and Miami?

Yeah, someone got shot in a set in the Dominican. Oh my God. There was, yeah, there was a storm in Miami, really aggressive and I can't remember her name. And it tore down all the glass and all the buildings and brickle and we were flying in a helicopter that day

that was, that was plane to plane shooting that was not safe at all. It was all. But you must have kind of secretly liked it a little bit too. It was all manner of madness.

You know what? I was pretty up for it. Yeah. To be honest with you. Yeah. I was pretty up for it. Because wasn't there a story at the end,

in the ending, he wanted to film it somewhere and Jamie Foxx was like, I'm not going there. You have to change the location. Yeah, that was post the shootout on the set, which was, I just remember being, that bit I remember. I remember my dad was visiting that day and we were on the set

in a building upstairs on the first or second floor of a building, on the first floor of a building that had a ground floor. And we, Gong Li was there. We were about to do a scene. My dad would visit. And I remember hearing a couple of bangs. And look, I'd shot about 10,000 rounds in preparation for that film. So I knew what a firearm going off sounded like.

And I grabbed Gong Li and my dad and took them to a back room and said, wait there, and went out. And there was all sorts of commotion and just absolute panic. And what had happened, I'm not really clear on it, but I think the army that was offering security, because we were shooting in a dodgy part of town, were a bunch of kids. I mean, they were like 18, 19, I think,

and they were carrying AR-15s or whatever it was. And an off-duty cop I believe who was lit tried to get on the set oh no and the kid in full fatigues pushed him back and the off-duty cop

didn't didn't didn't stay back tell the guy he was a cop he didn't do they didn't identify himself as law enforcement and he took

a six shooter out of his waistband out of his Bermuda pants with his belly hanging over them waist enforcement and he took a six shooter out of his waistband out of his bermuda pants with his belly hanging over them waistband and he your man i think let go a couple of rounds one of the rounds or two of the rounds hit the cop i know he was shot one of the rounds went through a porta potty where if somebody was in there they they were brown bread. Yeah. I saw the bullet hole through the port-a-potty. And that was when, yeah, Jamie went, fuck this. That's insane.

Respect to him, you know? Respect to him. He had enough respect for himself. I did. But we had to, yeah, the end of the film was going to take place in Dominican, and we had to move it to Miami. Yeah. Yeah, one of the things that's happened with that movie is because the TVs got nicer,

like the TV right there and the widescreen and the pictures. So some of these movies that were shot earlier than the last 10 years have just translated really well to the equipment we have.

And that movie didn't look like anything else. No, he's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eventually it was astounding. Yeah. What part did you wish you had gotten that you didn't get

that is like your big regret part do you have one I don't have one you don't have one no no I don't have one or a part that you were gonna do and you had to

at the last minute back out I mean I could tell you films that I loved that I would have gone God I would have loved to have given that part a go but but they were done so give me one of those what part were you I mean, I could tell you films that I loved that I would have gone, God, I would have loved to have given that part a go,

but they were done so extraordinary. Give me one of those. What part were you the most jealous of? Oh, her. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. I just thought it was just, and I mean, Joaquin was, as he is in every single performance he gives, he was astonishing in it and beautiful and heartfelt

and so fucking present, you know? So Her would be one of them. Yeah, that I just, I saw that film. It was my favorite film of that year. Yeah, for sure.

We just had the five-year, remember we were talking about the five-year Oscars? Yeah. That was in the mix for that. That was in the mix. We basically were talking about like they shouldn't do

the Oscars every year. They should do like Oscars for the five years of movies it should be like five years later so we have some time to think about to digest it

yeah like get caught up in all the ambush of marketing and have our opinions do you make like a 10 best list at the end of the year

do you like make little lists no but I come across them every now and then online or whatever yeah what are some of the things you loved

in the last year in the last year? In the last year? The last few years then. Did you see The Rider? I loved, yeah. Did you see The Rider? The Rider was amazing. It was beautiful.

I really loved, I loved Get Out. I actually liked last year more than 2018 where like Get Out and Lady Bird and I just thought it was a really creative year. Last year, I got to say, I really liked The Star is Born. Yeah. And I just felt like it was like an old school Hollywood movie, like the kind of movie I grew up with, with big stars. Yeah, yeah.

Shot really well and just stars being stars. And I still feel like in the era of everybody putting on a cape, it was just nice to see a movie with stars that had a beginning, middle, and end. Yeah. And I wish that happened more often. Did you ever have a chance to be like a cape where you'd have to make like seven sequels of a movie? No.

Do that whole thing? No, I never had the chance. I did Daredevil long before Marvel. I remember you're the bad guy, right? Yeah, Marvel became what it is today. But no, I've never had the chance, no. There are a couple movies from right after miami vice especially in that period that i was really surprised because they mean a lot to me but i was like surprised they didn't like pot like pride and glory actually is a movie that i think is like super underrated are there

are there films like that and we're like either that have caught on later later on but or that you were surprised at the time that people didn't find or disappointed that they didn't find disappointed yes yeah surprise no i mean i i because i i honest to god have no expectation in my suitcase i i just i just don't travel with it and it's not even a decision maybe it's a little bit of a decision it's a good philosophy that's good but honest But honest to God. No expectation in my suitcase. I like it. But I hope all the time,

like you go to work, there's no director in the world. I don't give a shit how bad people say his films. There's no one in the world that goes to work to make a shit film or bore people, you know? Yeah. So you always have hope that what I've always had hope that what I'm stepping into will find a life afterwards and will either entertain, offer escapism, offer a provocation, whatever it may be.

I was disappointed. There was a film I did that I loved called Undine that nobody saw. I think it did like 750 grand at the box office. I didn't even see that one. No, nobody saw that one. I think I remember seeing it when it came out, maybe. Nobody saw it. And I just thought it was a was a look it's not an earth-shattering film but i thought it was a very sweet film and i had a lot of integrity and heart and and is that neil jordan yeah yeah yeah he wrote and directed it and i just i had it just kind of came in a very deep

affection for the character in that film and and there was some points of interest that we crossed on our points of experience that that character myself crossed. And nobody, yeah, just didn't. Nobody knew what they didn't know what to do with it. They hadn't got the money to market it. Not that it would have ever done huge anyway. It was quite intimate, quite small. But there are films like that.

Pride and Glory. See, I have very little objectivity over what I've done because my experience with it is so total in relation to three or four months of doing something, getting to know the people I'm working with, being in another location, what's happening in my life while I'm shooting that film. There's so much information that I experienced in the making of a film that then to go and see it reduced to this hour and a half, two hour soundbite, it's just weird. Was it cool working with Edward Norton on that? Yeah, I enjoyed working with Ed. Yeah, he was good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heorton on that yeah yeah I enjoyed working with Edge yeah he's good yeah yeah yeah he was good he's very bright and all about the business yeah yeah it was good I enjoyed working with him um and that film yeah Gavin O'Connor went to great lengths you know to to do the NYPD as much justice as he could there was a lot of police lads that were there you know giving us details that we wouldn't have had otherwise and you've had you've had to do an american accent in some movies what you've

had some trial and error with it what what tricks do you have when you do it what it what did you uh base shares on but it accents depends on the accent you know i've had different dialect coaches through the years i've had had four or five different dialogue coaches the one I'm working with now I've worked on maybe four or five projects with did True Detective with her

and yeah did Dumbo with her and Fantastic Beasts a few other things again it's that thing you just don't

I certainly don't know what I look it's one of two things accent work I believe it's either a conduit into the character or it's a barrier that'll keep you away from a sense of freedom that you need

to explore something to the depth that you should explore it. Oh, that's interesting. And a lot of that is down to your own mental head games and your level of uncertainty or your lack of familiarity. So what I have found is

the more and more familiar you can be with it, the more and more, of course, like anything you work on on it then the more freedom you have within it and then the more you can throw the classroom away and just be in the playground you haven't done a Boston movie though right huh you have you have you done a Boston movie yet Boston no that one will be easy for you if you ever do that no yeah yeah Irish and English created Boston I did Chicago I did I did a fairly heavy we went for it and did a fairly heavy accent for this film, Widows, I did. I got hung up.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went for it, man. And I don't know, I make no apologies for that one. Widows, I think Widows is going to have legs. It came out, it did okay. But I think when it hits cable and it's on Netflix for a while

and I just think it's going to keep going because it's so interesting. It's a lot of good work. And he's another great director, Stephen Queen. When you're doing In Bruges or Seven Psychopaths or something like that, is it a little bit more like the safety's off? Do you not have that thing in the back of your head that is modulating your accent and doing stuff

like that? Is there a little bit of freedom doing something like that? In my own accent? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's the goal. Look, I'm thinking in Bruce, on Dean I did a very thick accent

that even though it's Irish, is as distant from me as Texas. But I do have a freedom. Yeah, you know, but there's sometimes when I've done an accent, there's been, and not every time, and that's the concerning thing for me personally, but there has been times where I felt complete freedom with an accent I was doing. And some of it is down to, there are phonetic sounds that are more, that are closer to an Irish, like Southern.

Yeah. A Southern accent is, has so many kind of, so many parallels in the way it sounds and in the shape the mouth makes and where the tongue rests in the mouth with Irish accents. So those ones I have. an amalgam of many different cultures arriving in New York and, you know, a pronounced culture in the New York experience from its settlement on up was the Irish influx. So there are actions. But ideally, look, I'll have done enough work by the time I get in front of the camera

that there is a freedom. But of course, doing my own accent. But as well, doing my own accent, also there's a catch, which is I feel like myself. Yeah.

Which is the negative aspect of it. I feel like myself yeah which is the the negative aspect of it I feel like I'm a little the line isn't as definitive between me and the character I'm playing which can be a bit of a sure

a head fuck as well do you want to hear Chris's imitation of Bono scolding the crowd I was the first thing I was going to ask when I came in was is there any chance

I could hear Chris's imitation no well there's like this famous when U2 was doing Octoong Baby yeah they used to do a bit where he would call president I think he called president here Chris no well there's like this famous when U2 was doing Octoong Baby yeah they used to do a bit where he would call

President I think he called President Bush President Bush he was calling he was like excuse me Mr. President I want to tell you

about the environment and he would call like the White House every night and it's on U2 that's good I don't know I think this is Bono

if he's from Belfast yeah Belfast Bono that should be your new shtick Belfast Bono if he's from Belfast. It's Belfast Bono. That should be your new shtick. Belfast Bono. It's pretty much my old shtick. This is great.

Yeah, Belfast Bono. What's the best Irish movie of all time? Is there a leader? What's the Citizen Kane of Ireland? I mean, can I toss a coin? You can pick two. Yeah, pick two.

The Commitments of My Left Foot. The Commitments is a fucking masterpiece. It's a masterpiece. It's so good. Alan Parker at the peak of his prowess. It doesn't get thrown around.

An amazing cast of actors, musicians, non-actors who all blend seamlessly and just a gut-wrenching story of a dream nearly realized, you know, and then falling apart like a zeppelin in flames at the very last minute. When that limousine pulls up and you know he's in the back of the limousine on his way to see the gig, but they finish then, they've already imploded,

you know, and he asks Jimmy Rabbit for the directions to the gig. It's a brilliant film, start to finish. And it's also an incredibly socially responsible film as to Dublin at that time and the poverty that was prevalent in Dublin at that time, you know? And then My Left Foot is just extraordinary as well. I mean, you just have, you've got... Wasn't that his breakout movie? I mean, he'd already broken out, but that was when people were just like.

That was when the whole room was standing up. Yeah. For the first time and going, okay, there's something really abnormally special going on here. Yeah. But Brenda Fricker in there as well. Yeah. You know, like just brilliant actors and Jim Sheridan again at the peak of his powers as a filmmaker, you know. Best Irish sports movie?

Have we had one? Do we have a best Irish sports movie? This we had one do we have a best Irish sports movie this could be this could be your only Irish sports movie next project I don't know what about like

three brothers on the soccer team all trying to make the national team or something I just thought of rugby victory

escape to victory do you remember escape to victory yeah stop it this is like one of his favorite movies it's an all time classic

who was the Irish guy in that movie was there an Irish guy they had the Irish guy George Best's an all time classic who was the Irish guy in that movie they had the Irish guy in that George Best wasn't in there no it was the goalie broke his arm he was the Irish guy yeah but he was the goalie because they talked the original goalie into breaking his arm

so they could all escape and the guy was like alright cool and they broke his arm I can't remember but I remember Ozzy Ardele's was in there. Oh, that's... The last 30 minutes of that movie is, I think, my favorite sports movie stretch. It's incredible.

To know what I haven't seen that in 20 plus years. Because what happened initially, it was on TV. It was the square. And he filmed it completely vertical. I mean, a horror... Widescreen. Widescreen. Yeah, right.

So now that the TVs have caught up with it, you can see all the plays, and it's out of control. Who's the arch goalkeeper? Sly Stallone as the goalie was a little bit of a reach, but... Terrible. I mean, they had to get it made. As a former keeper, you were probably just like... His technique was just fantastic. Well, plus he catches the penalty kick,

which is the least realistic sports movie moment. In his belly. In his belly. Was it there? Was it there? Was it there? No, he pulls it back in. Do you think that anybody could make

a good movie out of Roy Keane's life? Keane is a... So Roy Keane is one of the most famous Irish athletes ever. He's a midfielder who played for Manchester United.

Of course they could. Yeah. Look, you can make a movie out of anybody's life. Human beings are interesting. There's no such thing as a boring person. There are people that will bore me. There are people that will bore you. But there Human beings are interesting. There's no such thing as a boring person. There are people that will bore me.

There are people that will bore you. But there's no boring person. There's just people that will bore me. They're not a boring person. Wait, how old are you now? I'm bored by them. It doesn't make them boring. Human beings are fascinating.

The stories we carry with us. How old are you now? I'm 42. Oh, you got three years left. You got a sports movie in you. Just bang that up. I got three years left. To do soccer?

I tore my ACL seven months ago, man. That could be your three years left. Do soccer I tore my ACL seven months ago man physically you were actually recovering from your ACL injury from one last act he wants to be in the victory remake

he wants to be in the escape guy victory he's taking HGH microfracture surgery meanwhile I'm over here fulfilling my new employment as researcher for this podcast

I'm trying to find out who the goalkeeper was in Escape to Victory yeah he was they talked the Irish guy into breaking his own arm I always felt like as a 25 do you think he was the goalkeeper was and escape the victory. Yeah, they talked the Irish guy into breaking his own arm. I always felt like as a 25-year-old. Do you think he was a goalkeeper or was he an actor?

Well, he was the actor playing the goalkeeper. Was he Kevin O'Callaghan? That's who it was. Kevin O'Callaghan? Yeah. Callaghan? Yeah. They talked him into it.

It never sat right with me. I obviously blanked the whole plot point. All right, this was fun. We turned you into a researcher. I'm good, right? Yeah. I was just going to ask about TV stuff. Oh, let's do that.

Let's do the TV stuff and then we're out. I actually really, I liked it. You were in the minority. No, I, look, you were amazing on that show. No, we, it's come around. It's come around, I'm telling you. The blades were sharpened. You know, the first season was so strong, you know, and it came out of nowhere.

This didn't come out. There was all that expectation. You know, again, it's not for me to say it really. I don't I have no desire to say what it's worth is or isn't. All I know is I loved working on it. I loved working on it. I loved that character. I loved working with Nick Pizzolatto.

I think Nick is an extraordinary writer and philosopher, actually. And I saw the second, the third season. Yeah, the rehearsal. Yeah, I thought it was fantastic. Yeah, we did like a bunch of stuff on that. It was really good. Are you home?

Are you like, when you go home at night, are you usually watching new stuff, new movies? Are you going back and watching older movies are you watching all the tv that's on now like not all the tv bits and pieces of tv um i watched i finally watched all the game of thrones about a year no maybe a year and a half ago yeah i watched the five was a five you could have cameoed on that show for like two episodes i did no you could have oh yeah I could have you could have gone in there just been some crazy prince

another opportunity to meet some crazy prince yeah down it up for two episodes getting killed by a knight crazy prince with a dodgy ACL who really just

wants to be a keeper how many gigs can we make that work for but I watch man old films black and white yeah

you know I watched Dublin Indemnity a couple of weeks ago I watched new stuff The Rider yeah did you watch Daredevil Indemnity a couple of weeks ago. I watched new stuff. The Rider. Did you watch Derry Girls? I watched Blaze a couple of times. Have you seen Blaze? Ethan Hawke?

Oh, the Ethan Hawke movie, yeah. Shit, that is tasty. We've had him on the pod and he was unbelievable. He seems like your kind of guy. He's so tasty. Check it out. Did you see Dairy Girls no I hear it's great

it is really funny yeah so Mustang last week yeah with uh what's his name Mateusz Schoenbart yeah Schoenhart

yeah Schoenhart yeah it's fantastic yeah so what do your next five years look like you're just making

making stuff just this man I just hopefully can you know find my way in front of a microphone if not a camera

and keep working for a little bit. Yeah, your Irish soccer movie, the national team, the three brothers. That's the one. You're 42, but you're still doing it. Kevin O'Connor. It's time we break his leg. Kevin O'Connor's juniors. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you find most of the interesting stuff you're reading now is designated for TV, or is it a mix? A lot of the strongest writing. Oh, that's a good question. A lot of the strongest writing seems to be finding its way to TV, you know? Were you going to do Oliver North for Yorgos? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were.

We were with Amazon, and then a bunch of stuff happened at Amazon and got put in the back. I don't know where that is now. Great script. Jesus, talk about a satire done just beautifully. Yeah, Yorgos really wanted to direct it. I don't know, that might come around again.

There's no government scandals anymore so it's not that timely right yeah that was the last one everything's plain sailing these days well I'd imagine with TV the talented people

are drifting to TV because you have more control over what you're doing and there's less things that can go wrong you have more time you have more time to get familiar with the characters

and to explore a greater degree of detail I would say you know I mean that's certainly people are asking what was the difference between True Detective and shooting a film I said there was no real difference and to explore a greater degree of detail, I would say, you know, I mean, that's certainly it. People were asking, you know, what was the difference between True Detective and shooting a film? I said, there was no real difference.

The cranes were all there. I mean, you know, the trailers were big and the food was grand. But I had, you know, these eight scripts to work off. And I got to really, I felt by virtue, even before I did the first episode,

by virtue of just having that much material and that much kind of character detail, I got to know that character, Ray Valcoro, pretty well. I mean, the process is so... That was an accent I felt pretty, I could have improvised all day. Yeah, whatever was good or bad or relevant, I felt like I could have just...

He had that cigarette blasted larynx kind of voice, right? Yeah, kind of an old-fashioned lawman from another era. Yeah, the process of... We had Bill Hader was here last week, actually Monday. But he's in the middle of making Barry, making eight episodes. And the bar is so high now for these television shows that they're really like movies. Like those Thrones guys are finished.

They're making their last season. They're making six, a nine hour movie, basically an eight hour movie. And it's like, it has to be at the same level. I cannot wait to see it. It's insane.

Yeah. It's a lot of good stuff. It's a lot of good work out there for writers and filmmakers. All right. So see Dumbo, give us the one sentence sell for Dumbo. You really have to sell Dumbo? Yeah, no, just give you, I want to hear from him.

I want his one sentence. I want his pitch. See Dumbo because you want to. Okay, great. That's perfect. All right, man. Call him back. I hope your knee, I hope it recovers.

Thanks, pal. Is it 100% yet? No, another seven or eight months. All right, you got it. Thanks for coming on. All right, before we go, we're going to bring my son in to talk about all the wrestling stuff this weekend. Before we do that,

I wanted to give a shout out to our YouTube channel. We got a silver button recently. Things are really heating up. We're almost at 115,000. We want more subscribers. We want you to subscribe. It makes us feel good. It makes our self-esteem higher than it should be.

And all you have to do is go to YouTube, just search for The Ringer or youtube.com slash ringer. Yeah, all our stuff's there. We're actually going to start steering more and more videos toward YouTube, I think. So just subscribe now. Our batting average is really high. We did the Callaway one this week.

Just check it out. We might even put my son's wrestling videos up there from this weekend because he's vowing to try to do 35 finishing moves in our hotel bed on Saturday for the 35 WrestleManias. He did this when he was eight. It was adorable. I put it up on my Instagram. And he's going to do it when he's 11. It's still going to be adorable. At some point, not going to be that adorable. I put it up on my Instagram and he's going to do it when he's 11. It's still going to

be adorable. At some point, not going to be that adorable. And we're probably almost there, but right now still adorable. So check that out. The ringer on YouTube. All right, let's bring in my son. All right. WrestleMania is coming this weekend. I'd be remiss if we didn't have our wrestling expert. We're on a good run with family members for me my mom was on last week which was a critically acclaimed performance

she said Kyle she said she'll come on again for the thousandth episode oh my god so we're 500 away from my mom's next appearance everybody keep listening

yeah keep listening we're gonna make it to 500 in the meantime my son Ben age 11 the biggest wrestling fan I know

we are gonna be at Wrestlemania this weekend he would not be denied yes we are In the meantime, my son, Ben, age 11, the biggest wrestling fan I know. We are going to be at WrestleMania this weekend. He would not be denied. Yes, we are. You badgered me. You ruined my life over and over again until I promised to take you. I have to take time off from work. It's going to screw up podcasts.

So you're not going to get, you might not get podcasts until Tuesday next week. It's Ben's fault. So apologize to America. It's worth it. Okay. Your three favorite matches Give us the three things you're looking forward to the most For Takeover Oh yeah so we got Friday night Takeover in Brooklyn

We're going to that too Adam Cole vs Johnny Gargano Okay who are you rooting for And who's going to win Adam Cole You're rooting for Adam Cole who's going to win No I'm not rooting for Adam Cole I'm rooting for Johnny Gargano But Adam Cole's going to win? Adam Cole. You're rooting for Adam Cole. Who's going to win? No, I'm not rooting for Adam Cole.

I'm rooting for Johnny Gargano. But Adam Cole's going to win. Adam Cole's going to win, but you're going to be upset is what you're telling me. Not really, because I know the outcome. Tommaso Ciampa's going to come back and make Johnny Gargano lose. How do you know this? You're just guessing? Because I'm a great predictor. Okay, so that's going to happen.

What else? What else are we looking for for NXT? Matt Riddle versus the Velveteen Dream. Oh, you love Velveteen Dream. He's only 23. 23. You think he's going to be a WWE champ someday? Easily.

He's your dude? Yeah. Yeah. And rumor says that he's going to be in the Andre Giant Memorial Battle Royal. Rumor? So you read that on the internets? Yes. Okay.

WrestleMania 34? Yes. No, 35. 35. Wow, 35. Can't believe it. So what are you looking forward to WrestleMania? The whole women's match.

The three-way? Yeah. Charlotte, Ronda Rousey, Becky Lynch Becky Lynch all the way Becky Lynch is winning No, Charlotte is You think Charlotte's going to win? Charlotte's going to be the longest reigning WWE

Women's champion That's how this is going to play out And you're ready to say goodbye to Ronda Rousey Yes, I hate Ronda Rousey Why? What did she do? She's evil She slapped the security guards Yeah

Her husband was in Raw And her husband got kicked out Yeah Because he hit a security guard Oh my god And you think this is her last match potentially Yes And then Becky Lynch, you met.

Yes. Last October. You were kind of blushing when you met her. It seemed like you were a little sweet for her. She is a god. Yeah. That's your favorite. I was really mad when I didn't get to see her compete at Survivor Series.

Oh, yeah, because she had her broken nose from, what's her name? Naya. Naya. Punched her in the nose. Broke her nose. Jerk. She's like, oh, I'm getting bullied. You bullied her. You ruined my Survivor series. Yeah.

You broke her nose. Nobody cares if you got bullied, Naya. Maybe you shouldn't have broken Becky Lynch's nose. Yeah, you frickin'. Jerk. What else are we looking forward to? Daniel Bryan versus Kofi Kingston. Oh yeah, big Kofi Kingston comeback. Yeah. He was

basically buried, right? Do you want to know what's happening? Give us the quick thing. At WrestleMania 30, Daniel Bryan had to fight in all the matches in order to go to the main event of WrestleMania. That's what happened to Kofi. He got screwed over in the gauntlet match.

But then the New Day and their tag team gauntlet match, they won. And now Kofi Kingston's going to WrestleMania. Wow. And the crowd's into this. Yes. We love Kofi. And then Roman Reigns, who dramatic comeback from leukemia and the crowd was against him. And then he got sick.

And now he's the most popular wrestler. Drew McIntyre is going to lose. To Roman Reigns. Yes. And you're ready to really, really root for Roman Reigns. What a comeback story by him. What a comeback. People love him now. It's so funny. The Shield? Are they going to stay together through this or is something

bad going to happen? At the main event, not the main event, but the second match to the main event. The the main event, but the second match to the main event. Yeah, the preliminary main event. Is Brock Lesnar versus Seth Rollins. Yeah.

And after Seth Rollins wins, which will probably happen, Roman Reigns is going to spear him. Going to spear Seth Rollins? You think they're going to turn on each other? Wait, you think Seth Rollins is going to beat Brock Lesnar?

Yes. Why? Because Dean Ambrose is going to distract Brock Lesnar. How do you know all this? Because I'm a predictor and I watch YouTube. Okay, you watch a lot of YouTube. Great. What's going to be the worst match?

Which match are we not looking forward to? Kurt Angle? Oh, no. Shit. That match sucks. It's going to be the worst match. No one likes Baron Corbin. Yeah.

You should have retired Kurt Angle after your broken neck. Yeah. You look like a turtle. You shouldn't be wrestling. All good points. I can't really go against any of those. Is your dude Ricochet going to be in WrestleMania?

No, but he is fighting against the War Raiders with his tag team partner, Aleister Black. This is great. You're not bringing a sign. No. You're wearing, what are you wearing on Friday? You're wearing just NXT outfit? The NXT hat I'm wearing right now.

Yeah. And my NXT roster shirt, my black pants and my black shoes. And what are you going to wear Sunday at WrestleMania? My Lucky Undertaker shirt. Do we see The Undertaker on Sunday? Yes. Is he going to be wheeled out in a wheelchair to wrestle?

Is he going to have a walker? No. Yes. Who moves better at this point have a walker? No. Yes. Who moves better at this point, him or me? You. I think we'll see him, though. He's always in there. The dead man always comes back. The dead man will be dead soon. The dead man?

Come on. And Shane McMahon is going to... The dead man's going to live forever. He's eternal. The dead man's wrestling career is going to be dead soon. Yes. But Shane McMahon is going to have forever. He's eternal. No, but Shane McMahon's wrestling career is going to be dead soon. Yes. Yeah. But Shane McMahon is going to have to have another retirement speech. Is Shane going to go through a table from 25 feet?

Oh, yeah. Like always. Who's he wrestling? The Miz. Let's go, Miz. Yeah, the Miz. Shane McMahon's a jerk. He turned on the Miz.

Yeah. Why did he do that? Fastlane. And he hit the Miz's father. It's unbelievable. If somebody hit me, you'd kick their ass. Yes. All right, so the champions coming out of this are going to be Charlotte Flair.

Charlotte Flair. Who's going to be the WWE Universal champ? Seth Rollins. Seth Rollins. So you think Lesnar loses the title? Yeah. Wow. Easy.

And then what's the other one we care about? Kofi But is that a title at stake? Yes Daniel Bryan Let's see I'll be at the I'll be at the

I'll be at the hot dog I'll be at the hot dog stand title Because that's where I'm going to be during that match Alright well this all sounds great Ben Yeah How many years away are you from joining the WWE You think 12? First I'm gonna go to NXT

You're gonna do in Orlando Yeah How old are you gonna be? You just skipped college? Don't save me a lot of money on college No no no I'm gonna get my acting Acting? You're gonna act now? I'm gonna act cause you have to act in order to wrestle

So you're gonna take acting lessons in gonna act because you have to act in order to wrestle so you take acting lessons in hollywood to get ready to be a wrestler and i've been training on my couch with my stuffed panda that is true i've posted some of the instagram videos wait what well i posted a couple of like you're doing these double flips i I keep telling you not to, and then you keep doing them. You're going to break your neck. It's worth it. Panda. Rip Panda. All right.

So when we went to Orlando to NXT, you did an entrance. My life changed. You felt like your whole life fell into place. Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to be able to stop this. I just want you to decide before you're 18, because then instead of paying for college for you, we can just hire acting coaches and people who can teach you triple flips. Oh, I'm so down. You can get ricocheted.

Ricocheted. All right. Well, good luck with all this. Thanks for bullying me into... Nia Jax got bullied. I also got bullied into going to WrestleMania with you. And now America is not going to get their podcast until Tuesday. Well, America, you can wait.

All right. WrestleMania is important. I'm really sorry podcast until Tuesday. Well, America, you can wait. All right. WrestleMania is important. I'm really sorry. I apologize. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for coming on. All right. Thank you.

All right. Thanks to DAZN. Remember, getting set up is easy. Download the DAZN app in the Apple or Android app. Sign up by creating an account. Start watching across nearly any of your devices. D-A-Z-N. Thanks to TheRinger.com, the world's greatest website.

Thanks to Hotel Tonight, they make it easy to book awesome hotels at amazing rates, like a matchmaker between top rated hotels and unsold rooms. And people want to book those rooms, not for last minute bookings only. Book for tonight, tomorrow and beyond. Perfect for planners, procrastinators, everyone in between. Find sweet deals at cool hotels you'd actually want to stay at. Go to HotelTonight.com or download the app right now. I am not sure. I'm probably not having a podcast for you until Tuesday next week. So I will see you on Tuesday. Enjoy the weekend. Oh yeah. On the wayside, never once said I don't have feelings within On the wayside, never once said

I don't have feelings within