The Bill Simmons Podcast - Harden’s Next Team, Westbrook the Wizard, and Pittsburgh’s 19-0 Quest With Joe House and Ryan Shazier 

Episode Date: December 4, 2020

The Ringer's Bill Simmons shares his thoughts on James Harden's next team, the only two serious contenders in the Harden sweepstakes, and how the deal can get done (3:00). Then Bill talks with Joe House about the Russell Westbrook–John Wall trade, how Westbrook upgrades the Wizards, what John Wall meant to the DMV area, and more (21:00). Finally, Bill is joined by Ryan Shazier to discuss the 11-0 Pittsburgh Steelers, linebacker Bud Dupree's season-ending injury, a behind-the-scenes look at head coach Mike Tomlin, and Bill's Million-Dollar NFL Picks (1:04:00) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I have an action-packed Bill Simmons podcast for you. I figured out the James Harden trade that's going to happen. I talked to Joe House about Westbrook versus Wall. And I had Ryan Shazier coming on to figure out if Pittsburgh can go undefeated. Plus, we did some million-dollar picks. It's all next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer.

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Network, where we spun off the mismatch with Kevin O'Connor and Chris Vernon. Their first podcast on the new feed is going to be available, I think either late Thursday night or Friday morning, but we have moved them off the Ringer NBA show. You can subscribe to their feed on Spotify, on Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. Go help those dudes out. They love the subs. They love the feedback.

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And I think we took them up another level this season. So go check them out. Rewatchables, we did Wall Street this week. And I'm just going to tell you the movie now for Monday. The program. Me, Russillo, and Kyle Brandt. A college football movie, unlike any other. That's going to be Monday night.

So you have four days to watch it on your own time this weekend. All right, let's get to the podcast. Here's Pearl Jam. All right, I'm going to have Joe House on in a second to talk about the Russell Westbrook trade, something we taped last night. Also, Ryan Shazier is joining us to do Million Dollar Picks and talk about the undefeated Steelers and whether that can keep going. So I'm taping this.

It is Thursday, early afternoon Pacific time. and talk about the undefeated Steelers and whether that can keep going. So I'm taping this. It is Thursday, early afternoon, Pacific time. And I've had time to digest the Westbrook trade, talk to some people. And I'm trying to figure out where James Harden is going. Houston is saying all the right things. Houston is saying, oh no, now they may keep him. And you see tweets out there like Chris Mannix talking about how John Wall and James Harden

were playing pickup together. They're making it seem like this is all headed toward James Harden staying. Maybe Westbrook was the issue. I don't agree. I don't think that's what's going to happen. The more I look at this, the more I talk to people, I think now this is a staring match. This is a leverage match. And Houston knows they have to trade James Harden. House and I will talk about this in a second, actually. You can hear my reaction last night to it, where it's like, he's not going to last the season there. I think it's going to go sooner than that. And I wanted to lay out the landscape. Look at this. I did this whole sheet trying to figure it out,

like a whole blueprint. So here are the Harden suitors. If Houston is going to trade Harden, which I think they will, it's really Brooklyn or Philly. But to be fair, let's throw in last year of his contract, Levert signed a new deal, but it's pretty palatable. Allen and Shammett are still on rookie contracts. They also have all their picks and all the swap potentials, things like that. So that's great,

except there's no headliner in there. And this is the key, if I'm trading James Harden. And this is the key thing for Houston to remember. If they're trading James Harden, who is one of the best four players the last 10 years, who is still one of the best five or six players in the league, who is one of the greatest offensive players in the history of basketball, and who is only 31 years old, you have to get something back for James Harden. That's not just a bunch of stuff. In the history of the NBA. It has never worked ever, ever. There's not one example

of trading a superstar for a bunch of pieces, for doing the proverbial $2 bill, trading that away and getting four quarters back. It's never worked. It's a terrible idea. You can't do it. You got to get an asset back. Brooklyn does not have the asset. They don't have that wow factor player out of those guys. I like Karis LeVert. He's 26. He's been hurt a lot. That can't be the centerpiece of a trade.

They can throw 100 picks at Houston. It doesn't change the fact that they're not getting anything tangible for James Harden. So that's a problem for Brooklyn. We're going to circle back to that in a second. Philly is the other team. Ben Simmons is the obvious piece. Ben Simmons for James Harden. Well, here's the problem for Brooklyn. We're going to circle back to that in a second. Philly is the other team. Ben Simmons is the obvious piece. Ben Simmons for James Harden. Well, here's the problem with that.

Houston can't trade James Harden for somebody who's not as good as James Harden straight up. As good as Ben Simmons has a chance to be. I am a bigger fan of Ben Simmons than most. His same name is my son. I think he's one of the best defensive players in the league. I want to see him on the right team. I feel like there's a version of him where somebody builds a whole team around him, built around his ability to play fast, his ability to be a point forward.

You put him around, you put shooters around him, play a different kind of speed, and it becomes like the Ben Simmons team. Maybe it's not a team that wins the title, but it's something. You have an identity. And then we can find out how good he is. Because last year he was playing on the same team with Embiid and Tobias Harris and Al Horford and no real point guard to take pressure off him, no shooting. And it was just a really easy team to defend. If you're getting him, you could build an identity around him and try to really make him succeed, build a team that would make him succeed, much like the Ravens did last year with Lamar Jackson. So Philly has Simmons. They have all their picks for the next seven years, all the pick swap stuff. Those are the two obvious candidates. The other teams, Golden State,

they could offer Wiggins, Wiseman, Minnesota's top three 2021 protected pick, a bunch of pick swaps. Here's the problem. If you're Harden, you're not winning the title if they do that because Klay Thompson's out for the year. So you're going to play with Steph Curry and Draymond Green, and you're not going to win the title. You're in the same spot you are now. So he'll veto that. Clippers, they have no picks at all. It's just Paul George. Would you want Paul George for a year? Would you be excited about that? What do you do if you're the Rockets? Now you're training for Paul George for a year and then you have to re-sign him for another five. Would you want to re-sign Paul George for five years from what

you've seen? Me neither. So they're out. The other one's a wild card, Sacramento. So Sacramento has Marvin Bagley, who I am a big fan of, even though he's been hurt. I don't think he should have ever gone over Luka Doncic in a million years, but I do think he's an asset. I think he has to be taken seriously. I want to see him healthy

on a team that gets him the ball. They also have Halliburton, who they drafted, who fell to the 12th pick, who I think is going to be the best player in the 2020 draft when all things are said and done. And they have all their picks and all their swaps. So if Houston was like, fuck it, we're just going to trade James Harden. We don't care where he goes.

And Sacramento is like, fuck it. This is our one chance to get a superstar. We'll offer Bagley and Halliburton and and here's a bunch of picks, and we'll put De'Aaron Fox and Harden together, and we'll see where this goes. On paper, that's something. Two problems. Harden would be like, are you kidding me? I'm not going to Sacramento.

And then if you're Sacramento, what are you winning with James Harden and De'Aaron Fox and barely anybody else? The only reason I mention it is because Sacramento has a history of being like, yeah, fuck it, and just doing whatever. I think it's Brooklyn or Philly. Okay. So you're saying, well, wait a second. Are we sure it's just Brooklyn and Philly? Well, as I said before, Houston has to get an available young star for Harden. They have to get a younger centerpiece that they can build something around with Christian Wood. Some of the picks they got back.

Hope, keep your fingers crossed that John Wall is good again and either keep him or trade him. But you got to get a young centerpiece. Simmons is the best centerpiece in the league that might be available for James Harden. Here are the other possibilities. Michael Porter Jr. Hold that thought. Marvin Bagley. James Wiseman. And are the other possibilities. Michael Porter Jr., hold that thought. Marvin Bagley, James Wiseman, and then it drops a level. It goes to Lori Markkinen, RJ Barrett, and then

Anthony Edwards, which they're not trading into Minnesota. Unavailable young stars. This is a very important category because these are all the people who will not be traded for James Harden because their teams just aren't going to do it. Jason Tatum, Luka Doncic, Darren Fox, Jamal Murray. So maybe a year ago, you would have said, oh, maybe Jamal Murray for James Harden. No, Denver's not doing that. Devin Booker, no way. Trey Young, Atlanta's decided to build the whole city around him.

They'll never admit defeat on the Luka Doncic trade, which is still one of the five worst trades the last 10 years. Jalen Brown, I don't see it. I think he means too much to Boston and the city on and off the court. The Tatum Brown thing, you have two guys who want to be in Boston who signed big contracts to stay there.

You can build around those dudes for the next 10 years. The trade would be Jalen Brown and Marcus Smart for Harden if you're going to make up a trade. Boston's not doing it. They're not winning the title with Tatum and James Harden and a bunch of role players. It's not happening. Bradley Beal, no. Joel Embiid, no. John Morant, no way. Zion, no. Carl Towns, no, and it doesn't make sense anyway. Donovan Mitchell, no. DeAndre Ayton.

Chris Paul's in that team, so no. LaMelo Ball, ironically, I don't think he's available yet. I think Charlotte actually wants to see how that progresses. Plus, what the hell are they going to do with James Harden? So back to the original question, Ben Simmons is the best trade piece for James Harden, which means James Harden is going to get traded to Philly, right?

Well, I don't think so yet because if I'm Philly, I'm looking at this and I'm going, I know you're not taking Karis LeVert, Jared Allen, Spencer Dinwiddie, and a bunch of draft picks for James Harden. I know you're not doing that. That's not happening. So here's my offer. My offer is Ben Simmons. And then Houston goes, oh, we got to get picks back. And Philly goes, no, our offer is Ben Simmons.

And you can get 80% of Harden's value for Ben Simmons. So two problems here. One is Daryl Morey, the former Houston GM, went to Philly. And Tillman Fertitta, who let him out of the contract, God only knows what happened with that whole thing,

lets him out. Daryl's going to spend more time with his family, and two weeks later, he's Philly's new running everybody guy. So Houston is not going to get snookered by Philly. They're not going to

make a deal where on paper you go, wow, they traded James Harden. All they got back was Ben Simmons. Philly knows this. They also know there's no better offer out there. If Klay Thompson was healthy, if Klay Thompson's ACL never happened, they'd probably be worried about Golden State because then you could talk about that Wiseman, Wiggins, the Minnesota pick, future picks, and you could have Harden, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Steph Curry, and that's a contender and Harden would talk himself into that. But with no Klay Thompson, he's not talking himself into that. So Philly's looking at this going, we win. Ben Simmons, they're not going to get a better offer. Brooklyn's looking at this going, shit, we have all these assets,

but we don't have quite enough to get Harden yet. We need to get a second asset. All right, so what do you do if you're Brooklyn? You got to bring a third team in there. You go back to the available young stars, Simmons, Porter, Wiseman, Bagley, Markkinen. The most appealing guy on that list is Michael Porter Jr., who conflicting reports on whether he's completely untouchable or almost untouchable, and the Drew Holiday, who knows if he got brought up. Brooklyn's only chance is to overpay for Michael Porter Jr.

And then put him into their package. So here's how that would work. A three-team trade where Denver, just for the privilege of including Michael Porter and rerouting him to Houston, Denver would be getting back Jared Allen, Spencer Dinwiddie, Landry Schammett, and two Brooklyn firsts.

So we'll give, let's say, the 2021 and 23 Brooklyn first-round picks. All for the privilege of sending Michael Porter and Gary Harris to Houston. Hmm. All right. So here's this trade now if it's three teams. Brooklyn, Denver, Houston.

Brooklyn gets James Harden and P.J. Tucker. Right? So now P.J. Tucker, by the way, very close friend of Kevin Durant, University of Texas guy. So now you have James Harden, P.J. Tucker, Kyrie Irving, DeAndre Jordan, Joe Harris, and some of the role guys they signed. You've got enough. You at least have your starting five, and it's freaking loaded. Denver, they get Jared Allen, Spencer Dinwiddie, Landry Schammett, and two Brooklyn firsts. They could also spin Jared Allen if they want, if they decide, hey, we have Jokic,

it would be weird to play them together. Jared Allen has real trade value. You could turn him into, like, let's say they called the Celtics and they're like, hey, give us Robert Williams, give us Romeo Langford and two first round picks I don't know you could turn Jared Allen into four assets

if you want a lot of teams would want him because 3.9 million he could defend the rim Houston here's what they get

out of this trade Karis LeVert Michael Porter Jr. Gary Harris they get two Brooklyn firsts and they get pick swaps in 2022, 2024, and 2026 with Brooklyn. So if you're Brooklyn, you're giving up Allen. You're giving up Dinwiddie.

You're giving up Shamit. You're giving up Allen. You're giving up three of your firsts and three pick swaps, all for the right to put Durant, Harden, and Kyrie in the same team. That seems like a lot. I don't really

like this trade that much for anyone other than Houston. My point is this is the only way Brooklyn can trump whatever Philly has to offer. If they can somehow figure out how to get Michael Porter Jr. from Denver. And now Houston has multiple assets.

They get the Levert and the Porter, plus some picks. And now you're talking. Maybe Jared Allen is in the Houston side of that trade. Guess what? I'd still rather have Ben Simmons. So the important thing for Houston, try to get the Michael Porter

or try to get Bagley from Sacramento. Try to get even Markkinen from Chicago. Try to get one more asset that Brooklyn can use some of their assets to go get. I still feel like if they paid 140 cents in the dollar for Michael Porter, Denver would have to consider it because they have a chance to win the title this year. Porter's their X factor, right? If you build a much deeper, better team around Jokic and Murray, maybe you're in the mix. Who knows with the Lakers?

Maybe this is the year LeBron gets old. We already know the Warriors are out. You just never know. They're not that far away. Porter's the X factor. We don't know if he can play crunch time and defend wings on the other teams and whether he's going to be happy

as the third option on a team, all this stuff. Who knows? So that's Brooklyn's best chance. And Brooklyn would end up with Harden and Tucker, and they would have a three to four year run. And basically they would be all in the same way the Clippers went all in, the same way the Lakers went all in, the same way the Bucks kind of halfway went all in. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but I think that's what they would have to do. And here's why that's important. Even if there was the hint of a three-teamer,

Brooklyn's trying to get more assets to throw more at Houston, then Philly has to change their stance. And they have to say, hmm, looks like we got off for a little more than Simmons. And this is where I think it lands. I think Mike Scott and Terrence Ferguson

go in the trade because they're expir think Mike Scott and Terrence Ferguson go in the trade because they're expirings. PJ Tucker goes in the trade. So Philly gets Harden and Tucker. They gave up Ben Simmons, Mike Scott, and Ferguson. They gave up two firsts, unprotected, and a pick swap. and then call it in. And, and the reason they gave up more than they thought they had to give up is because they're worried that Brooklyn is just going to say, we're going to figure out how to get the assets and every, and we'll, we'll try to get young guys from other teams. We have three team potential, 14 potential. We're, we're going hell or high water to get this happening.

And then Philly eventually says, what are we doing? We have a chance to get this happening and then Philly eventually says what are we doing? We have a chance to get James Harden and they have a chance to put James Harden with Joel Embiid I think the trade looks something like that I think it will happen sooner than we think

because if we've learned anything about the history of the NBA once a guy is unhappy and once a guy wants out it always happens sooner than later. We rarely have the, wow, we're on month four of this guy being super unhappy. It usually happens.

It usually happens fast. And in general, we should not be surprised when there's a mega NBA trade anymore. So that's my prediction. I still think James Harden's going to Philly. I felt that way the whole time. Really since the draft, I felt like Westbrook was going to end up

in Washington before the draft. I don't know what happened. I don't know what held up exactly, but it eventually happened. And the Rockets want to get away from this Harden thing because he's going to be unhappy the whole year. They want to start over, start fresh. They never won anything with him anyway.

They never made the finals with him anyway. Good luck, Godspeed. So long. And he goes to Philly. And I think that's how this plays out. All right. Coming up, Joe House and I talking about the Westbrook Wall trade, which we taped last night. It's all still relevant.

Wouldn't change any of my opinions on that. And then Ryan Shazer doing million dollar picks. It's all coming up next. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

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All right. We're taping this on a Wednesday night. Wanted to get House's instant reaction to the Westbrook-John Wall trade, where the Wizards also threw a number on pick. That's fine. House is a lifelong Washington fan, as anyone who's ever listened to him on this podcast knows. They've had a tortured existence. They really have not had a great playoff moment since the late 70s. They've had a couple okay playoff moments. One of them included John Wall jumping on a scores table after hitting a big shot. I'm sure you're running through a gamut of emotions here. I want to start with this. Your team has Russell Westbrook, a polarizing superstar who you and I have texted about a million times. We've emailed about. We've been on text threads

about him. You have come on this podcast. We've debated his merits, whether he was the MVP, whether we'd want to play with him, whether this is somebody we'd want to root for. And now you have to drink the Russell Westbrook Kool-Aid. Here we are. My friend, I'm here to announce I am a hoops pervert. I came on this podcast multiple times four years ago when Russell went on his tear and won the MVP. And I called everybody that voted for Russell Westbrook as MVP of the NBA, a hoops pervert. And I'm here to announce today that I myself, Joe House, am a hoops pervert. So let's go backwards to the day before the draft.

I think we can now tell this story. Oh, I was wondering if you were going to be able to tell. I caught wind of this trade before the draft. And I was told it was going to be done after the draft, barring something weird happen on draft day. But basically, the trade was Russell Westbrook to Washington, John Wall and a pick and maybe another pick depending on what happened in the draft to Houston. And I called to tell you your team was getting Russell Westbrook. And it

was a hilarious call. I wish I had videotaped it. And you were kind of, this was, there were really no rumors about it at all, other than on like the dark web. And watching you talk yourself into it over the course of three minutes was really funny because fundamentally he made the all NBA team last year, whether he deserved to make it or not, he still did. He's still respected within his peers as a top 20 guy, whether he is or not, that's up for debate. He's not old yet. Athletically, he looks pretty good. He looked terrible in the bubble because he got COVID and he had an injury, but I don't think there's any reason he couldn't be back to 90% what he was during that pre-pandemic bump he had. And you have Bradley Beal, who also would have made the NBA team if you had a good Wizards team.

So now you could argue they have two of the top 30 guys in the league. It's a 30-team league. That's all you need to be a playoff team, House. Not only that, I expect them to make the playoffs and not just barely squeak in. They're not a 7 or 8 seed if everybody's healthy. They're a 4, 5 seed seed maybe uh wait hold on maybe not four but look the east where we are re-racking the east where the entire east is going through a reconfiguration a recalibration yeah and and i agree with you russell westbrook uh averaged

27 points last year he averaged nine assists and seven rebounds last year. Like he can play. He's not over the hill. He's still in his early 30s. He's not on the front end of his career. But, you know, this is wonderful, by the way. Yeah, I didn't realize you were gargling Kool-Aid like you are right now. When you're measuring it against a player who hasn't played 50 professional basketball games since 2017, then it's valuable.

Then it's valuable. that this version of Brad Beal, which is a pretty mature, basketball mature, I mean, you know, sophisticated, offensive presence, still has got to work on some defense, but a mature, sophisticated, offensive, impactful player, damn near led the NBA in scoring last year.

Yeah. That version of him, paired with John Wall, didn't seem like a lot of prospect for success. Well, plus the injury risk with John Wall. You hit that piece too. Well, it's been persistent injury risk. We just went through it.

He hasn't played 50 professional basketball games since calendar year 2017. Well, hold on. You mentioned Bradley Beal. I don't think there's any way this trade doesn't happen unless Bradley Beal was driving the car. Clearly. I mentioned this on a podcast last week and there was a little pushback and people were like, wait, wait. Beal specifically told them to keep off. Let's be honest. This is a player's league. Steve Nash doesn't get hired as the Brooklyn coach unless KD signs off on Steve Nash being the Brooklyn coach.

This is the guy, LeBron, whatever the Dennis Schroeder trade, I guarantee they're running it by LeBron. It's a star's league. This is what all the smart teams do. They keep their stars in the loop. The Wizards want to keep Bradley Beal. They resisted every offer, overture, whatever to trade him during a market where Drew Holiday is going for three first rounders and two pick swaps.

They didn't want to bring the same team back. He clearly wanted to upgrade somewhere and get a second banana that could play with him. And now he's happy. And now you can win 46, 47 games potentially, which is the whole point of this trade. And now you don't have to worry about trading him and starting over again. And the point that I want to make, it does not put a lie to the friendship, the genuine friendship that he and Wall seem to have made over the last couple of years. Beal personally traveled down to John Wall and spent time with John Wall when John Wall's mother died. He, he, he, uh, you know, tried to make a flight. He couldn't make a flight. He drove himself in his car down to John Wall's residence and stayed with him

when his mother's passed and wall and Beal were together here in Washington, DC this summer, the summer of 2020 working together, uh, out on the protest lines, you know, in support of the black lives matter stuff, that relationship is genuine and it's real, but that does not mean that when the team discussed with Brad Beal, what about our prospects for next year that he couldn't get behind, couldn't endorse the idea of a, of a hopefully healthy Russell Westbrook here in Washington, especially with a team that is in need of a cultural reset. And that as much as anything is, uh, uh, the, a compelling enough compelling enough reason to bring Russell in here. He's a notorious hard worker.

His work ethic is legendary. And for a team that's been going through a renovation with a brand new front office staff. Now, Tommy Shepard's been there forever, but they brought in all kinds of other professionals and support throughout, you know, strength and conditioning, the top tech guys, the top analytics guys. They're finally getting serious about basketball here. Bringing in a player whose work ethic is unquestioned by the entire league. That's a positive, impactful kind of statement, I think. Yeah, and I'm not saying Beal made the trade. I'm saying

they do not make the trade unless he was okay with the trade. Right. Because their number one goal, if you're running the Wizards, whether you own it, whether you're the GM,

you're trying to keep Bradley Beal happy because you don't want to get into a situation where you have to auction him off to the highest trade bidder in four months, six months, whatever it is. They want to build around him. He's an awesome guy.

He's 26 years old. He's one of the best off the court guys in the entire league. He's still getting better. Like if you're trading a guy like that and starting over who's under contract for two more years, where are you going? And I think they smartly saw that. Now, if somebody came in and gave them the Anthony Davis ridiculous godfather offer, like what the Lakers gave up for Davis, I'm sure they would have to at least think about it, but that trade wasn't out there. So you think like, all right, what's Westbrook? You bring them in. What are we getting? Here's what you're getting. Everything you just said,

he's going to work his ass off. He's going to play every single game like it's a game seven. He's going to average 27, 9-9. So whoever you had at point guard last year, that's going to be better. And more importantly, you're not crossing your fingers with John Wall. So I think for the Wiz, the first round pick, it had some protections on it. It's never really top three dangerous. It's always, it's like lottery protected,

top 10 protected for the whiz. They're in the playoff hunt. Now you said they could get a five seat. I think you're wrong on that. Here's, here's who's ahead of them. I would say Milwaukee. I would say the Celtics.

I would say Miami. I would say Philly. Okay. That's Brooklyn Philly. Okay, that's it. Brooklyn? Maybe. You tell me what version of Kyrie. Brooklyn, Toronto, Indy. Okay, well.

So Toronto, the big question for them is they lost a lot of size. Siakam was terrible in the bubble. Is that going to continue? I don't know if they're a mortal loss to be a top five team. Siakam was terrible in the bubble Is that going to continue? I don't know if they're immortal Look, all I'm saying is Washington Is in that class now They're in the discussion With the Indies and the Torontos

Maybe And who knows what version of Brooklyn We end up with And what their health situation is like We just saw it with the Rockets When you have two guys who are putting up huge stats, you're going to be good during the regular season. Because every single night, those guys are going to get 55 points.

And now you can just fill whoever around them. Now, if the rookie that you took, Abduja? I'm just going to call him Denny. Let's just call him Denny. We know Denny. We know how to talk about Denny's Yeah, Denny You've had a long checkered

Fantastic history with Denny's Not checkered, uncheckered Spectacular Checkered for the toilets But How dare you Denny If he can play this year

Who else do you have? Thomas Bryant Yeah, who was good last year Yeah, good You know know energy guy ruey ruey might be somebody could be a guy he's a rotation guy he's a rotation guy he could be like a seventh man on a on a good team that's right uh anybody else that might be it that's about it for all the if you go through the list of notables, those are, well, obviously Bertons. I mean, Bertons.

Oh, and Bertons. No, I mean, I, I, for whatever reason, I assumed that we already, that's a big three in the East. I mean, it's a biggish three because if Bertons can be healthy, everything always in the NBA depends on health. If all three of those guys are healthy all season long. And they're the version of the Washington team that Scotty Brooks, I imagine, thinks this team can be, which is up-tempo, right? The version that they tried the last couple of years, which was pretty entertaining. I mean, the game against Houston in November 2019, where the two teams scored over 300 combined points. Right.

I mean, it feels like 10 years ago. It was just a year ago. It was awesome. And if that's the version of Washington, we would just get out and run and try and score, score, score. That's fun. That could work. Well, we left out Robin Lopez, which was one of my favorite offseason signings.

Somebody I really wanted the Celtics. Yeah, you're laughing. I really like Robert Lopez. We had a Bulls-Celtics playoff series a couple years ago, and he was a beast. And I always feel like he's one of those guys on the right kind of team is somebody who would need in a playoff series.

And you have size. It seems like you're one wing short, depending on how Rui is. We didn't mention Nish Smith. You have Raul Nadeau this year somehow. I don't know why that happened. I can say that both of those guys are on the team. You can

play fast. And then you got Robin Lopez, who I don't know. I actually like. I wanted the Celtics to get him. They got Tristan Thompson, which I was even more excited about. But he was a good backup plan, I felt like, because I've seen him have good moments on good teams,

like in the bowl Celtics playoffs series a couple of years ago, he was a beast. He was like kind of destroying us. And I feel like he was kind of wasted with the teams that he picked the last couple of years. My point is you can play big and he can be the Steven Adams type of guy with Westbrook. Um,

the big, the big center could set some picks, maybe roll a little bit, protect him on defense. Or you could play a little faster, smaller lineup, play two point guards. There is some flexibility. You're probably a wing short, but I think you're going to be buyers this year because I think there's going to be a lot of teams, if they're not in the playoffs, trying to get rid of money because of the no fans this year. And that's going to be, that was why if they're not in the playoffs trying to get rid of money because of the no fans this year and that's going to be

that was why the Celtics got that big trade exception for Hayward they know teams are going to want to get off money and there's going to be dudes available so Lopez makes sense for what you just described as a guy that's going to bring some size otherwise the size was like Isaac Banga and

Thomas Bryant who plays you know whole variety if you can play the three the four yeah he's more valuable was like Isaac Banga and Thomas Bryant who plays, you know, a whole variety. He can play the three, the four. Yeah, he's more malleable. And the five, he just runs. Yes. Yeah.

I like the team. Now, here's my favorite part of the trade. I have two favorite parts of the trade. And we'll talk about the John Wall stuff after. My two favorite things of the trade. One, I said this a couple weeks ago.

I really wanted Westbrook to go to one of these mediocre or worse Eastern Conference teams and just be Russell Westbrook. Just be the guy in the action movie that is the movie. It doesn't even come out in the theater. It just is immediately on demand, but I kind of want to see it anyway.

I think that's who he is. He's a best guy on a 41-win team. He could be one of the best two guys on a 47 win team. You're not winning the title with him, but really fun. He's going to bring it every night. He's going to bring energy swagger. So that's one thing. The second thing is now he's on your team. You have to watch him. I'm so excited for the Russell Westbrook rollercoaster ride that your house is going to go on. You're going to change your opinion on him a hundred times. He's going to have a game where he goes like 11 for 40 and,

and, and misses the game winning three. And you're just going to be like, I can't believe I talked myself into this trade, but it was, I won't regret believing in the trade because there's no doubt that, that John Wall's time here in Washington, um,

was at an end. Yeah, that's exactly right. Uh, I have every confidence of what you're describing in terms of the frustration that I will feel because look, I have bet on many games involving Russell Westbrook, and I've counted on him successfully to sabotage the team that I bet against. And that has worked to a terrific degree many times in the fourth quarter,

him taking ill-advised shots from six minutes left in the fourth quarter onward. On the other hand, he has single-handedly caused me to lose bets as well by making insane shots, by taking games over in the last handful of minutes. Those are all regular season games. But I remember one game we bet on together when he just went full Russell Westbrook with like, he made like a 30-footer.

He was not even set. He's falling out of boundsbrook with like 30. He made like a 30 footer. He was not even, not even set. He's falling out of bounds. I know the game. Yeah. It was Houston against OKC and Houston needed to win. The game was one of the last three games of the season, two seasons ago. Believe me,

the gambling losses. I remember. And it stung because he went off in the last two minutes and he cost us a sizable wager. Well, he's almost like one of those. He's like one of those quarterbacks. You don't want to bet on and you don't want to bet against.

We, one last thing on Westbrook. I'm really going to be interested to see how he resonates with DC and the DMV because there are certain guys that have clicked in the right way. Right. I think Gilbert had that three-year run when he was just absolutely beloved. Right.

And, and John Wall had a couple of years, which we'll talk about later when, when he clicked, I think the stuff Westbrook does is actually going to be very popular. Although you'll have no fans this year. So maybe it doesn't matter. Well,

from a pure basketball standpoint, I think the city is ready for something new to be relevant relevant again as a basketball town i mean we've been irrelevant for a handful of seasons now waiting out well just in terms of 40 seasons it's wall's injuries you know we have this the promise ever since the game that you mentioned when John Wall made a game winning three in game six of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Celtics. You know, that was the promise of something dramatic, you know, Wall and Beal as the backcourt of the future and one of the top five backcourts in the NBA. And that was the high watermark of John Wall's career here in Washington. The scores table four years ago.

It really was. That's right. You know, but it's a good segue into, into Wall's connection with the city. So I don't know if you're ready to start talking about John Wall and what he meant to Washington. I'm ready to do that right after this break.

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Mondelez International Group. So, John Wall in the city of Washington, and you go back to 2017, which was the highlight of all this and him on the scorer's table, game-winning shot. I went to game seven in Boston. And it was the game. I had two takeaways from that game. One was that it was clear Bradley Beal was going to end up really being something. And it wasn't even like he was, you know, he didn't have 50 points or anything like that. But it was the same way I felt about Steph Curry when I saw him play that game seven against the Clippers. I was in person for that one too. It was just so impressive how he handled the moment. And I felt that way with Beal. He was the guy I was afraid of as a Celtics fan.

On the flip side, Wall, I thought the Celtics just figured him out. They were just playing way off him. They were just basically preventing him from taking off on defensive rebounds. And in half court, they were just kind of trying to get in his head and make him shoot.

And he was really limited. And it was one of the reasons they lost the game. And the question coming out of that series was, can this guy ever have all the tools if he's one of your two best players, where as the playoffs get harder and harder, does this guy have the offensive arsenal to actually make it past the final eight? Can he do it? My takeaway from that series was I'm not sure he does. How did you feel coming out of that series? Well, the reason why you reached that conclusion and you're not wrong is because he and Beal played an unbelievable number of minutes in those playoffs and in that series in particular it was the only

way for them to be competitive so if you go back and look at the box scores of games six and and seven uh wall and beal there's a a noticeable decline in their performance fourth quarter especially because they're just exhausted they're exhausted and your your point about you know what wall's arsenal might consist of um has to be thought about you know in we have to run about you know four hypotheticals he doesn't get hurt they put other wing players around him that take some of the pressure off those two guys wall matures you know this is the thing always and we've talked about this um ad nauseum when we've talked about the Washington almost, uh, bullets on your podcast.

The thing that I've always wondered about with John wall is his leadership DNA. Um, he's the best player, but that doesn't necessarily make him a leader, a natural leader of men. He for sure is a genuine guy. And that's part of why he was beloved here in Washington. It was eminently relatable. Everybody here will always remember the relationship he had with a young girl who had cancer. He went out of his way to establish a personal relationship with her. And he broke down and cried on television in a game that he dedicated to her after she passed. In Washington, he'll always be beloved in Washington for that. But that doesn't have anything to do with his capacity

to be a basketball leader, a leader on the floor. And I don't know whether or not they paid him as though he was both the best player on the team and capable, and I don't know whether or not they, they paid him as though he was both the best player on the team and capable of being a leader. And that leader part was always the element that was missing, but I'm not going to come on tonight and say bad things about John Wall because it was 10 years that coincided with Ernie Grunfeld. And it was 10 years that, that, uh, where wall played hurt a whole bunch of years. The guy was tough as nails and he was a crazy athlete. I mean, that's one way that there is a kind of symmetry going from wall to Westbrook. You know, we're, we're going to get kind of an

athlete that's comparable to what our minds remember about wall three years ago in, in Russell Westbrook and maybe a better version of, of that wall. Although, you know, the, uh, efficiency stats are unfriendly to,

to Russell Westbrook. You know, go ahead. It is interesting. They got traded for each other because those two in Rose, early Derek Rose, early Derrick Rose, pre-injury, from 2008 on, when those three guys came in the league and really were dialing speed that they could turn on and off and the ferocity and the torque that they had when they were good, you know, driving to the basket at these weird angles where you, you really kind of feared for their safety. You know, I think

John Moran's like that now he's like the next guy like that, but it's a good comp i mean you you uh when zach lowe worked for grantland he did a video breakout about uh uh well maybe he he was this was for espn i don't remember the particulars but he did a video breakout like an eight minute clip on john wall's passing ability and the position that he would put his body in driving the lane but knowing where he was going to pass the ball out to on the wing. And he made some wing players. He made careers for some guys. Martel Webster will forever thank John Wall. He'll be in John Wall's back pocket for the rest of his life.

That's because John Wall passed him the ball for those corner threes. Yeah, it's weird because, and this happens over the course of NBA history sometimes where somebody gets a contract that is just absurd, right? This happened to Joe Johnson 10 years ago. And they just become the contract figure and the talent kind of goes away.

And for Wall, that contract was so bad, especially after he got hurt, that his ability has been completely lost. I think people think he's now a sunk cost because he had the Achilles injury. He's older. I'm not sure he's a sunk cost. I saw Chris Mannix tweeted about him and Harden

were playing pickup basketball last few months. And Harden obviously saw him what he could do and couldn't do and I think he would have thrown his body in front of this if he's watched up god bless the internet there's footage I mean I watched some of it tonight on Twitter you can see John Wall and and Harden together on the court Harden was checking John Wall in some of the sequences that I saw, Wall had bounce. Wall had explosiveness. Now, you know, it's a pickup game. It's an NBA player pickup game.

I mean, Andre Drummond was there. There were a couple other guys, NBA players, playing this thing. But Wall didn't look fat, for one thing. And he didn't look slow. And he was going to the hole. And he didn't look slow and he was going to the hole and he was fearless. So like, if that's the version that you're going to get, it's, it's worth the risk possibly to Houston, especially if Houston's calculus is the relationship has, you know, soured

to a point where it's not resuscitable. We can't salvage anything in the relationship between Russell Westbrook and this franchise. And so just, you know, making a, uh, a lateral trade possibly with the upside of, of wall. Now there is no precedent whatsoever, right? For a 30, a guy, a point guard who's over the age of 30, who's had knee surgeries, multiple knee surgeries, and an Achilles injury, and who hasn't played any professional basketball in two and a half years. Hasn't played 50 games of professional basketball

in three years, right? There's no precedent for that. Is Sean Livingston? Who are we talking about? I think Tiny Archibald is probably the best comparison. He blew out his Achilles in the late 70s, missed a year and a half,

came back and had two more really good years in the Celtics. You said a year and a half. John Wall hasn't played 50 professional basketball games since 2017. He did play in 2018, but still. Here's what I would worry about if I'm a Rockets fan

trying to talk myself into this. He's just not a very good three-point shooter. And when I say he's not a very good three-point shooter, I say he's a terrible three-point shooter. He's 32% for his career. He had, in 2015, shot 30%, and then 35%, 33%, 37%, 30%. But you go to the playoffs, which I just think playoff three-point percentage

is so much more interesting to look at for a variety of reasons. Playoffs. So he only made the playoffs four times. 2014, 21.9% three-point shooting. 2015, 17.6%. 2017, 34.4%. And then 2018, 19%. And I bring this up because it seems like James Harden likes certain people around him, people who can shoot three-pointers. And that was the big struggle with Westbrook last year.

And then finally, they used Westbro as like this weird roaming offensive rebounder, the baseline foul line, post-up guy. John Wall's a point guard. John Wall's used to having the ball. Harden has the ball more than anybody in the history of the NBA. And I can't see for the life of me how these two are going to play together. Well, let's go ahead and explore that a little bit. Then you're a guy who knows things. Yeah. Sitting here today, December the 2nd, 2020, how would you handicap the likelihood? What are the odds that James Harden is a Houston rocket for all of the 2020, 2021 basketball season. Oh, man. Can we bet on this? Because I say no chance. I thought before the draft, I thought Westbrook was going to go to Houston. And I thought James Harden was going to get traded for Ben Simmons and picks.

And something is funky with that Philly thing. And I don't know if it's a Fertitta, Daryl Morey thing. I don't know if they feel like the Sixers might have maybe something uncouth happened. Maybe a communication that shouldn't have happened.

I don't know. Some tampering? Some touching? There definitely, there's definitely some suspicions on the Brooklyn side, right? And now Houston's like, fuck you.

We won't trade you. How about that? So it's going to be a staring contest. That's fine. But you. We won't trade you. How about that? It's going to be a staring contest. That's fine. Look, the trade that makes sense is Philly. It's Ben Simmons.

And Ben Simmons then playing what I think is his best optimal position, which is a forward kind of position. And John Wall has a very traditional kind of point guard. Can I say something that makes some sense? It's your podcast.

No, about that trade that I've changed my opinion on. Oh, interesting. Okay, go ahead. I don't know if I would do it yet if I was Philly. Because I like some of the moves they made to make the Simmons and Bede thing work better. And a lot of people have made this point. There are good advanced metrics with Simmons and Bede together,

five-man lineups when it's certain types of people in the lineup. They just had all the wrong people last year because they were poorly run and they made bad decisions. Now, it's a supporting cast that seems to fit better. Right? Where you have, even like just having Seth Curry there instead of Al Horford.

Sometime you're going to have to. That's a minor thing, right? No, it's not. At some point, you're going to have to explain to me why Dallas felt like Seth Curry was expendable. Not on this podcast.

Sometime though, as we get going here, I can feel the life in me. It'll take me 10 seconds. Go ahead. Josh Richardson, distressed asset, right? Somebody that we all thought was really good a year ago. He's a three and D guy who can do specific things, goes to Philly. They have no point guard. He, especially in the playoffs, they're asking him to like create his own shot. That's not what he does. Now you put him with Luca. All he has to do is worry about defense and threes and they feel like they

can replace Seth Curry's offense with Tyrell Terry. Okay. And that he can grow into the Seth Curry role. And now they'll have two players instead of one. I think it's smart. Okay. That's it. That that's the,

that's the explanation. If you're Philly, the Seth Curry thing, you know, the JJ Redick, Ray Allen, that's the kind of guy doc always likes to have spread in the floor, more all that. If you're Philly, the Seth Curry thing, you know the J.J. Redick, Ray Allen, that's the kind of guy Doc always likes to have.

Spreading the floor more, all that. If I'm Philly, if Houston's like, we'll do Harden for Simmons straight up, I'd probably do it because James Harden's one of the five best players in the league. I'm not throwing in picks. Fuck you. Where else are you trading them? That's right. Honestly, it's like, how about this?

Here's my offer. Ben Simmons. Well, we want two firsts and a pick. No, you're not getting any of that. Guess what? I'm really happy keeping Ben Simmons. He's an all NBA player and he's 24 and he's not had falling outs with his last three superstar teammates,

which is what happened to James Harden. Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, and all of it ended badly. Now, Dwight Howard... I'm not saying that there was a... He didn't have a falling out with Westbrook. Westbrook got hurt for these playoffs. He wasn't ready to play playoff basketball in the bubble.

That wasn't a falling out between them. They had a falling out where they traded Westbrook. Westbrook was unhappy. Talked about how it was a weird culture. He demanded the trade because it is a weird culture. It's a weird culture because of James Harden. It's a weird culture because of the instability of the franchise. Daryl Morey and the Antoni left.

And those guys were the stability that permitted. Wait a second. I know you don't believe this. No, you don't believe this. Would you want to be on James Harden's team? Does it look fun? Look,

I am a hoops pervert. We began this podcast. I do. You like going to the playoffs every year. Do you like having a chance of contending against the very best? Look, it's not like they played Golden State in all those series and just got rolled. We were disappointed in Harden because he didn't deliver what we thought he was capable of delivering. I'll give you an analogy.

They were awfully effing close. I'll give you an analogy. When we used to play pickup basketball together a million years ago at Holy Cross, who did we always try to pick to run with and try to stay on the court with? We didn't go for the James Harden type where it's like, well, that guy's really good, but it's going to suck to play with him, but we might last for an hour and a half. We would try to pick guys that we would have fun playing with. Yeah. I always love playing. We wouldn't pick James Harden and be like,

Hey, we can play with James. We'll be on the court for two hours. We would have looked at each other and said, eh, so I'm just going to stand over there and not do anything and then have to guard a better grab than him. Fuck that.

I'll go play with my friends. Yeah. There's gotta be something to it. He can't be fun to play with. I don't know. It did. It didn't seem like Russell was shy about getting his

shots. It felt like he was pretty comfortable operating in that space. Wow. James Harden seems to be patient zero for all of these departures. I'll just point that out. And it does seem like the culture of that team is just geared around him. How

to get him. It's really not that much different than what happened with Westbrook and OKC. The difference is they were a championship contender with that formula and that's why you can't criticize it. I'm just saying it doesn't seem that much fun to be a supporting cast member. And I think Westbrook with Beal, it's kind of perfect because that I actually really liked that combo. And it reminds me a little of

like when, you know, Beal is different than Durant, obviously for a variety of reasons, but it's a little Westbrook Durant-ish right. Where Beal is a guy who can create his own shot. He can stretch the floor. Um, he can, he can carry stretches of games. You can go to him and crunch time much like Durant, who's the best scoring forward ever. There's a little piece of that, right? Where he takes pressure off of Westbrook. So there's moments where it's like, Hey, Russ, give it to the guy who's more guaranteed two points here. We're down one with 10 seconds left. Yeah. In that respect. Sure. I mean, I don't get the, the BL Durant thing. i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that i'm just i'm just talking about scoring and reliability i think they're

complimentary i think their games are complimentary i think the style of play is complimentary i think that there is a real opportunity for this to work uh and especially with burtons if you can get burtons taking those open shots and he can shoot from 30 feet out. I mean, he showed immense range. There's still a piece yet for Washington. I don't know what flexibility they have in terms of additional moves. So they're kind of like one player away. But still, you know, you know, we call Bertans in my house.

I don't know. $80 million Bertons. There's a Latvian laser. Let it be. $80 million Bert. Let the Latvian laser cook. I can't. I'm going to have an office poll for the first time

you text me complaining about that contract that you're paying $80 million for him. I'm not, I'm not going to complain about it. You talked yourself into Jan Mahimny pretty quickly. And then I talked myself. Oh, it's shop blocking center.

That's the market right now. Then I watched him play and I wanted his bum ass to go back to France. I mean, the French players that made out in 2000, him and Nicholas Batum. Oh my God. That thievery, those two thieves, those French thieves who stole all that money from those NBA teams. And those two guys could give a shit about playing professional basketball.

Well, I saw, I want to say it was Shams. He tweeted about Batum to the Clippers and he had a thing like Batum is expected to give the Clippers versatility and shooting from the swing positions I'm like he was the worst player in the league last year what are you talking about he's going to give them versatility and shooting from the handicap stall that's his best

I area to operate watch him cook in the bathroom stall he still stinks he stunk and he's been stinking and he stinks. Well, I read a story that he's in the best shape of his life. So apparently paying him $27 million a year could have motivated him to stay in shape. But now, contract here.

Maybe they can get Mahinmi too. Yeah, get all the French dudes. Put them together. All right, before we go, you mentioned the John Wall legacy in DC and since I've known you so you're growing up as a kid

you get Wes Onseld and Elvin Hayes and finally win the title Bobby Dandridge some really fun Bullets teams

and we move into the 80s there's a little Rulon and Mahorn McFilthy and McNasty a little Frankie Johnson Jeff Malone Jeff Malone

Jeff Malone fun teams but not really contenders but at least passable get to the mid 80s Moses comes in it's like cool we got Moses Malone

this is amazing but it was it was a different version of Moses I had a cup of coffee with Bernard and you had Bernard so you're getting these former superstars

still relevant and And it just kind of, as I knew you in the late 80s, the wheels just started to come off. There was a Chris Webber era. There was some Googs. There was some Mitch Richmond. We go to the 2000s. Then Gilbert miraculously shows up. That was awesome.

And then that fell apart. For two seasons. Yes. Incredible. The Wall thing. And it's just funny. Like you think 40 years, what was the highlight? It probably was that 2017 coming damn close to making the conference finals.

It's the closest they've been to the conference finals in 40 years. So yeah, that's right but well i like john i like john wall i hope he makes it back i don't me too i don't feel like this is a good fit for him but for you look the wizards now i think are the are the heavy favorites to be the eighth playoff team they're at least they're at least the six i at least as the six. I mean, I, I like them, but I'll pencil them in now for the six and hope, hope for the five. I just am excited to have some relevant, interesting basketball.

We're going to be able to talk about Washington basketball for the first time in a couple of years. And, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, have to send out mean tweets and mean messages to all the sports writers about not giving Bradley enough love. We give Bradley love. Last question. Do they give zero to Westbrook? He can have whatever number he wants. Whatever Brody wants, he can have. Because it's funny, they never gave zero to everybody since Gilbert Arenas.

It's like, wait a second. We're not retiring Gilbert Arenas' Wizards number. He was in a gun scandal. What are you doing? Give away the number. That thing didn't end great. I don't think that's a protected number. Whatever Brody wants, he can have.

That's what I say. The Gilbert Arenas retirement ceremony would be really something. House, congratulations. Your basketball team's fun again. Yeah, thank you. This is fun. I'm excited. It's going to be fun.

It'll be something to talk about. I know that much. All right. We can hear you. Fairway Rowland, you already taped it this week, but also Warren Sharp on the Ringer NFL show. You and him do a little gambling breakdown. You and I have just been getting sauced.

Just crushed. Football. You know what's not fun? Betting on COVID era football, where just guys are scratched last minute. I finally, I'm telling you that podcast that you, that where Warren and I have been together, the season was absolutely the worst possible thing for me and my, my gambling. I was a guy that like, would it just barely dabble on football gambling, but my curiosity, all of the knowledge, hearing him talk and learning things from

sharp, his sharp points every week. I'm so buoyed. I'm like, I learned something this week. I want to go apply it. And then I do absolutely the wrong thing. And I've lost so much money on the NFL this season because I moved away from my discipline. I was disciplined, just been on a couple of games at most. Nope.

Nope. I, I want to try this thing and I want to try that thing. And next thing, you know, uh, I was disciplined. Just bet on a couple games at most. Nope, nope. I want to try this thing and I want to try that thing and next thing you know. I'm done betting on games that are obvious public games. That's the one thing I'm just not letting. I just would rather not bet than do that anymore. Vegas last

week was the final straw for me. I understand. I love Vegas. Well, the public likes it. No, fuck it. I still like them. I'm not doing that again. There are some teasers out there this week, including Vegas. God damn it. All right, House.

Good to see you. Thanks, buddy. What does possible sound like for your business? It's the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply.

Visit amex.ca slash businessplatinum. All right, we're going to do million-dollar picks in a second with this guy, Ryan Shazier. You can hear him on the Ringer NFL show with Cole Wright on Tuesdays. He was, once upon a time, an awesome Pittsburgh Steeler, and I've been holding off having him on this podcast because I was waiting for the Steelers to lose because I didn't want him gloating

I didn't want you gloating I didn't want to see you all happy but now it's like December and they're still undefeated so I had to have you on yeah you know I didn't think that was going to happen I don't think it's going to happen this year Bill we're too good obviously yesterday we played terrible but We're too good. Obviously, yesterday we played terrible,

but we're too good of a team this year, man. We might be one of the best teams in history. It might not look like it, but we are. Settle down. Best teams in history? What are you talking about? You don't believe that. Come on.

Hey, man. It's not about how it looks. It's about just getting the Ws, man, and that's all that matters. As long as you keep winning. The defining play of the Steelers season, in my opinion, if you could take one play to show what the season's been like, it was Ben's third and sixth that clinched the game yesterday. It looked like the ball was shot when it was in the air.

There's three guys around Washington, and he made an awesome play. It goes into traffic, gets it. He gets interfered with. they don't call it, pulls it down, basically game over. But that's like a, the Steelers have been making those plays for three straight months. Yeah, to me, the play that defined the season

was Benny Snell, Steph Armand, Marcus Peters. That's a good one too. Yeah, the reason I say it is because it wasn't a big game. It wasn't a pretty play. But, you know, we just got to get the opponent out of our way and just continue pushing, man. So, you know, it might not look pretty. You know, everybody loves pretty football.

But, you know, we're playing old school football, just playing great defense and getting the wins. You know, I love Ben, but throwing the ball 60 times kind of scares me, but hey, it's cool. Yeah, you know, winning close games, making that two or three plays that end up swinging a game

is a certain skill. And I certainly rooted, I don't know if you know this, but I'm a Patriot fan. Yeah, no, I definitely know. I definitely know that. The 2003-2004 teams before your time when they won 21 straight and just over, sometimes there were weeks that they weren't dominant, but they always got it done. They just kind of kept the chains moving. They got the big stop

when they needed it. And it's a skill in its own way. And I look at the league and Pittsburgh out of all the teams seems to be the team that trusts itself the most. And I think, don't you think the biggest piece of it is just when you have the same coach and the same QB for that long, there's a calmness in certain situations that you just have? Yeah, it's definitely a calmness. You guys had that, you know, for all the years you were successful until now. So I'm happy that you guys are struggling right now, to be honest. No, but yeah, it's definitely a calmness, you know, when you're in a tough situation, but it's only two or three points, seven points, you know, even 14 points. 14 points is a stretch, but you always know that your coach is going to put you in a

good position and your quarterback is going to always find a way to keep you in the game, you know? And I think that's the thing with the Steelers. We understand that in every game, we're always going to be in it. It doesn't matter what it looks like at the beginning or the end, we're going to always be in it. And you can always trust on Ben to make the right play in the right moment. Sometimes it might not look like the right play, but he ended up making it. And, you know, Coach Tomlin is going to find a way to get a turnover or find a way to pick our best players in position to make plays, you know. So every time I was in the game, you know, I never felt like, oh, this team is better than us or all this team is going to out coach us. I always felt that we will always be in the game no matter what.

Even when we had pretty, pretty bad records at the beginning of the season, we always felt that Coach Tomlin is going to find a way to keep us in this game. You know, so we always felt confident over there. And you always just trust the guys you're playing with. And I think that's a big component when it comes to winning. A lot of times people just look at, you know, the depth chart and like, oh, this is the best depth chart. They're going to win.

But it's not always about that. It's always about, you know, when you trust your guys, selflessness, and just really just going out there and just feeling comfortable and calm when you're playing. Well, you can do a couple things that I like, right? You can move the ball quick because you have great receivers, especially, you know, I think that Baltimore game, the first one when they were down and they came roaring back,

they just have a lot of skilled dudes. And all of a sudden, the Steel one, when they were down and they came roaring back, I just have a lot of skill dudes. And all of a sudden the stewards can score 17 points in 10, in a 10 minute stretch in, you know, the third quarter or something. So they always have that component. Um, and then the Roethlisberger piece, even though his arm, there's some throws where you're just like, Oh man, is he hurt? And then he'll zing the next one. So it's, it's almost like, I, I don't know what to think about him anymore.

I mean, you obviously played with him and you've been watching him for a while. What do you think of him throw to throw? Is there any rhyme or reason to this? No, I'm not going to lie. As a teammate of Ben, you always know like, hey, we're in this game no matter what.

But he does make some throws that you're like, you're looking at the other guy like, did he just throw this? Right. You know, but I think he just trusts in himself so much that he goes out there and slings it. And I'd rather have a gunslinger than somebody that's going to sit back and hold the ball.

You know, because we have, like you said, we do have weapons and Ben always has weapons. And, you know, as long as the weapons are actually catching the ball, like yesterday we weren't catching the ball at all. But as long as the weapons are actually catching the ball, like yesterday, we weren't catching the ball at all. But as long as they're actually catching the ball

and making things happen, Ben's going to always trust them and try to keep the ball in their hands. So, yeah, Ben does scare you sometimes, but one game, he might go out there

and throw a pick when you're like, man, Ben, why you threw that? And then go back out there and throw five touchdowns. So it's just, sometimes you never know what you're going tos. So it's just, you just,

sometimes you never know what you're going to get, but it's always good to have him on your side than the other side. Well, you need him more than ever this year because I think if there are two weaknesses of this team, the first one would be, it's a pretty mediocre running game, right? And so you're up three with four minutes left

and you just need a first down. Odds are you're not running for that first down. Ben's going to have to make a play, and he's going to have to go to Claypool or Washington and traffic, or if everybody's stacking the line, then maybe Juju Deep, whatever. But he's going to decide that first down. You're not just going to be able to run for it the way Tennessee would be able to. See, the one thing that's a misconception with the Steelers, though, is that

we actually sometimes just don't even try, though. We were averaging almost three yards of carry all the way into the fourth quarter when we started running the ball more, but we just weren't running the ball. We had 50 passes to 13 runs, and

13 runs in 40 yards. 13 runs in 40 yards isn't that bad. Like, that's not bad. Because if you're averaging like three and a half yards of carry, that's a first down every time you run the ball. Like, after three times you run the ball. So we weren't really running the ball effectively, but I think a lot of times when we don't see like splash runs

or just consistently a five or 10-yard run, we just get away from it extremely fast and um that's the one thing that does skip me with this team and we do need ben for that so can we try to do a lot of short passes and make those runs and you do those short passes you know third and four up got batted down uh went off the guy's hands like all of a sudden you're opening all this kind of stuff and you don't really have like the great tight end to go to either. What would you do if you were the defensive coordinator against the Steelers team without giving too many secrets?

You would like if I'm thinking like if Belichick was playing this team in a playoff game, which actually conceivably could happen. I don't see it happening. Well, it could. It could be a 2-7. Just give me that. Come on. I could be 6-6 after this weekend. I'm still entertaining thoughts.

My team's terrible. Y'all gonna have to win a playoff game to play us. Well, I'm saying if Casey catches you... No, we're not losing any games. Okay. I'm just talking it out. Belichick plays you in the playoffs and he's basically gonna

be like, I'm not letting you throw the ball and I'm not letting you get big plays. So if you want to rush Connor and Snell 45 times for four to five yards a pop, go ahead, be my guest. But what I'm not going to do is let you throw. The thing is, if you actually look at James' stats, when he gets like 15 or 20-plus carries,

he always have a monster game, always. But it just, we never really, especially this year, we really never have been letting him get to that. So you think they're saving him? I don't know if they're saving him. I don't think they're saving him,

but we need to run the ball more. Yeah, I think you do too. Especially now in December, January, this is when you have to establish it. Yeah, we need to run the ball more. But I feel if a team is just like, first of all, Ben is when you have to establish it. Yeah, we need to run the ball more. But I feel if a team is just like... First of all, Ben is not the type of person that's

going to let you be like, you're not going to throw it on me. That's like saying to Mahomes, we're not going to let you throw it on me. Right, right. I'm not saying Ben is Mahomes, but he has that type of mentality. He's like, you're not going to try me as a quarterback like that. So I feel he's going to attempt to try to be a good passer,

but we're going to have to run the ball better. We're going to have to run the ball better. And I really feel if somebody tried to put us in a running match, like we have to run the ball, I think we can because James is still a good enough running back. If you go on nickel personnel and we're in pro set, he's still a good enough running back. He's going to

get five yards and pop at the end. But if you start stacking the box, that's when I feel it's going to be a problem for us running. Well, the other issue, I mentioned you had one issue, which was the running game. The other one is you had two terrible injuries. You lose Devin Bush, and then this week you lose Bud Dupree. And i would say you had four truly elite defensive players and now you're now you have two yeah that that really hurt that really hurt um losing losing bud is huge because him and him and tj were running mates you've seen in the stats they said that they had the most sacks between the two people this season and i it just sucks to see that that he got hurt man he's been having two monster years.

Last year, he had a great year. This year, he was just doing exactly the same as last year. And what really makes it sad for me, because me and Bud are friends, and I feel sad because he has a huge contract coming up. I know. When you get injured, it always puts doubt in your mind if you're going to get a contract that you're when you get injured it always it always puts doubt in your mind if you're going to get a contract that you're supposed to get but i think he is

because well it's even worse than that though because they franchise tag them yeah this is the problem with the franchise tag right where the team is basically saying yeah we're gonna roll it over but you still don't have the security of the long-term deal you can pay for one year but the risk is i could get hurt and now it's it's like that prescott had the same thing obviously but yeah but that's where it sucks to me i always felt that that the stillers were going to resign but me personally yeah um but you know if he went to free agency he'll probably get more money but now we have to see how that works i feel like now they're definitely going to resign him uh just him. Just for less. I mean,

he's not going to get, he's not going to have like Arizona coming in over the top or some other team being like, hey, here's a giant check.

I don't know. You don't think so because he got hurt. He was, last year he had 11 and a half sacks. This year, he had nine.

You know, so he was on a, he was on track to get 10 plus again. So, he is, that would be considered an elite pass rusher you don't think he'll no but when do you when do you get him back though

because even acl even if it's like 10 months that's still taking you like six weeks into the season so you're paying this premium price the other thing i think is you know the cap might go backwards next year because they didn't get revenue from attendance, you know? So I do think, I bet my guess would be the Steelers would take care of him because I think they're pretty, I would say out of

all the NFL franchises, one of the stand-up franchises and they'll probably do right by him, but it's a bummer because I think he would have been one of the marquee guys. Yeah, 100%. I feel he probably,

if not, he probably been top five highest paid free agency players if he went to free agency next year, 100%. I feel he probably, if not, he probably been top five highest paid free agency players if he went to free agency next year. 100%. You've talked about Tomlin

on Ringer NFL Show, but not on this podcast. What, obviously, one of the most special coaches we've had last 20 years in whatever the 21st century Mount Rushmore is.

He's on it. He's got to be on it. It's got to be him and Belichick and Andy Reid. And Pete Carroll? Is it Pete Carroll? Jim Harbaugh or Pete Carroll, right? For the fourth? I mean, not Jim Harbaugh, John Harbaugh.

I meant the Ravens. Ravens Harbaugh. Yeah. Me personally, I would take Pete Carroll because I feel like he's been more consistent winning since he's been there. You know, John Harbaugh, like, he'll have, like, three or four, like, really spectacular years

that he'll, like, fall off, and then he'll come back and he'll, like, fall off a little bit to me. Yeah, I think that's fair. It's probably 4A, 4B, but I think I agree with you. Carroll, since he got to Seattle, every year they're a contender or close. So, give us one thing that makes Tomlin special that I wouldn't know just from watching

TV from my couch every week. So, I think a lot of people know that he seems like a really sociable guy. Well, let's say his players. I feel the one thing that he does really well is that he understands how each of his players react to criticism, reacts to coaching, and he's trying

to coach each of them different you know uh so for instance like antonio brown he was a character you know so uh and i'm not and he was obviously the best receiver at the time so you have to coach antonio a little different because the way he takes criticism is totally different than how i took criticism you know so like for me you can't out me in front of everybody it's gonna make me mad and I'm like dang but I'm gonna be okay you know when you out Antonio or something he's gonna get more into his feelings like if you out Ben Ben he's more of a type of person he wants one-on-one criticism and then you know and then just talk about it amongst yourselves while some other, they need to be said in front of the team.

And this guy isn't playing well. And then you see he performs better. So it's just like every player is a little bit different. So I think he does that. He does that really, really well. Another thing he does really well is when he sees that a group is struggling in his team. So, for instance, if he sees the linebackers are struggling this year or he sees the tight ends or receivers struggling this year,

he actually starts to pay more emphasis on that group to try to help them propel. And I know a lot of times if a coach just sees a group struggling, they might want to make a change on their coaching or something. Like, it's that dude's fault. But that group might just be having a bad year or those guys aren't just

playing well at this time. So he'll come in and start adjusting more to help that group out. Belichick does that too. That seems like the highest level of coaching when they can just kind of come in

almost like the guest chef in the kitchen and just make a couple suggestions and fix it. Yeah, because at the end of the day, a coach is supposed to, you know, delegate to the other coaches. But at the end of the day, whatever they put out on the field is your product, you know. So he wants to make sure that they're playing the way he wants to play. And if they're not, he's going to try to make some changes or fix it up so that guys start playing better.

And it looks the way he wants it to look. And I know he does that a lot. And I know from talking to my friends when I was playing in the NFL, they'll say their coaches aren't as hands-on. Another thing that I used to do with Coach Tomlin, and I know Coach Tomlin, he loves football. He's in there so early in the morning. I used to be in there at 5, 6 in the morning watching film,

and our meetings were until 9. But at 5, 6 in the morning, Coach Tom to be in there at five, six in the morning watching film and our meetings were until nine. But at five, six in the morning, Coach Tomlin is still one of the first people at a facility. And when I would be in a facility, you know, me and him got really close because if it's only five people in the facility, you know, at six in the morning,

you're going to start bumping into each other every day. Now you're going to start actually just talking about what's going on. And me and him start having meetings every single morning. And when he sees that somebody is truly dedicated to being great, he puts more effort into that player. And you see it. If you see guys that aren't, they're just doing a nine to five, just clocking in, clocking out. He understands those guys. He still coaches those guys, still try to help those guys. But the guys that he sees that's actually putting that extra effort,

he puts the extra effort in them too. Were you always a 6 a.m. guy? Like even in college? So in college, I was always later. I would stay up later and watch film. I'll have tutoring and then after the tutoring, I'll just go back

and just see what the teams are doing so I can just be prepared. But then when I got to the NFL, I'm not going to lie, my first few years, I didn't say I was slacking,, I'll just go back and just see what the teams are doing so I can just be prepared. But then when I got to the NFL, I'm not going to lie, my first few years, I didn't say I was slacking, but I was just like, you know, I'm just figuring things out. I didn't know how things would go. And then I ended up getting a personal trainer, and then me and him just trying to figure out when was the right time to start working out together because it was kind of hard to do it after workouts

because I was doing treatments. And then we started working out at seven in the morning. And when I come in at seven in the morning, Mike Mitchell, who used to be the safety there and Will Gay, they'll be watching film at eight. So I was like, oh man, I can get an hour in with them and, you know, still go to the meeting and get an hour so I can be prepared before everybody else. And then I started liking it so much. I was like, man, I'm spending so much time with these DBs. We're only watching defensive back stuff.

I need to start watching linebacker stuff to know the running game better. So then I told our trainer, I was like, man, I was like, how early do you think you can go in? Like, we can wake up. He was like, man, how early do you want to go? And then so we went at 6. So we started working out at 6. And it was like, how about we work out at to go? And then, so we went at six. I mean, so we started working out at six and it was like, how about, how about we work at five? So we worked at five,

I'll get there at six. And then from six to nine, I'll just be watching film, but I'll get that two hours to actually watch what I want to watch. Because by the time everybody else come in, you know, once people start coming into the building, you just start talking and you're watching film, but then you start getting sidetracked and this and that. But if you're in there for two hours by yourself, there's no sidetrack. So. You know, I think that's why the draft is such an inexact science, right? Because you're drafting these kids who are 20 and 21 and 22 years old. Yeah. And even you, you were a high pick, but it's maybe it took until you were 25 before you really realized that last thing you needed to do to make you great.

And I don't know how you evaluate that with somebody who's 21. Because they might never get it. All of a sudden, they might belatedly get it. I don't know. I don't know how you do it. You can't really evaluate that. A lot of times, the way to evaluate that is when you're talking to somebody

and you're just like, hey, what is your vision? A lot of times. And then if to somebody and you're just like, hey, what is your vision a lot of times? And then if you see a guy say something like, hey, I want to be great or something, like a lot of guys, like I talked to a lot of guys

and it was like, and I was like, man, I want to make the Hall of Fame. Like my goal is to make the Hall of Fame. And it was like, me and God knows,

like, I don't, Ryan, I don't think I ever played with anybody that said they wanted to make the Hall of Fame. Everybody just played football. And I was like, well, my goal is to make the Hall of Fame that said I wanted to make the hall of fame. Everybody just played football. And I was like, well,

my goal is to make the hall of fame, but I'm trying to be one of the best people to play. And if you see guys that say stuff like that, or you see guys like when you're talking to them and other people are always saying like, they're working out extra or you see them in here more. I feel like those guys are the ones that you see propel. But when you're just trying to go strictly off a talent or just what you see it's a lot harder because like aaron donald i'm in pittsburgh

and he lives in la if i was in la i'll be training in the off season in la you know not in pittsburgh because we just got uh a gallon of snow just dumped on us today right you know but he will be he will be here if it's the offseason, and he's training inside our facility, not in the Steelers facility because the pit in the Steelers facility is right next to each other, and we share the same indoor. So we'll be in there, and he'll be in there.

And you see him, it's snow outside, and he's doing drills, working out, and it's in the dark, and you see nobody else but Aaron Donald in there. But that shows you why he's the best player, while it's other guys that say, hey, I want to be great, but they're at home eating pizza. And it's like, man, this is the off season.

I'm not doing nothing right now. Right. Well, I think about this a lot with the NBA. And I know you're a Spurs fan, which you told me that. I was surprised. But I was trying to evaluate these lottery picks and these whoever, and over and over again, it's the same kind of guys who make it.

It's these dudes who are gym rats. And you talk, the college coaches like this dude is just, he's shooting every day. All he wants to do is be great. And then you see somebody like Dame Lillard, who I missed on. Cause I was like,

Oh, he's 22. Yeah. It's like, he's 22. He's going to Weber state, whatever the fuck it was. It's like, he's 22. He's going to Weber state, whatever the fuck it was. And,

uh, he's not get out of here. And then you actually read what he was like. And, and from, you know, where he grew up and the stuff he overcame and then how much he put into it. And just,

he wasn't going to be denied in Portland. Saw it in Portland. It was like, we get this guy. We can, this guy could be a franchise guy for us potentially because

he actually gives a shit. And it seems like in the NBA teams they're starting to look at that more. I know that was a big thing for the Celtics with Tatum where they were just like,

guy's an amazing athlete but he's a gym rat which means sky's the limit because he's really going to put in the time and the work. Football, I guess, it's a little harder

to figure out especially as guys are growing in their bodies and all that stuff. The reason, I guess it's a little harder to figure out, especially as guys are growing in their bodies and all that stuff. The reason I feel like it's harder with football, like basketball, you have to be a gym rat. If you're not in there shooting, your shot is going to be broke.

Like you have to always practice, like always practice shooting. But sometimes with football, some guys are just naturally God gifted to earth. You know, like Martavius Bryant, for instance. Martavius, like he looked at like Calvin Johnson, but he just You know, like, Martavius Bryant, for instance. Martavius, like, he looked like Calvin Johnson,

but he just wasn't as, like, 230. But he had all the attributes. He had everything you can imagine. But he was a guy that

always wanted to mispractice, never wanted to do nothing, just wanted to go out there and play football. Yeah. Like, you know, and there's a lot of guys

like that in the NFL, and they're phenomenal football players, and they might be some of Yeah. Like, you know, and there's a lot of guys like that in the NFL and they're phenomenal football players and they might be some of the best players, you know, but at the end of the day, so it's kind of harder with football.

With basketball, if your main guy is not in there shooting, that means he doesn't really love it or... Or conditioning. Yeah. Yeah, if he's 15 pounds

overweight, all that stuff. Yeah, it's hard to hide. Yeah, it's hard to hide in hoops. But with football, it's a little bit easier because it takes more time to actually start back up your season. You have training camp and things like that, and some guys are just naturally gifted. I don't know why I was able to just be born

and be able to jump a 42-inch bird and run a 4'3 and be 230 pounds. I have no control of that you know so but i still work my ass off but it's guys that are my size that don't work their ass off but it's still all pro all i'm not gonna say all pro but all yeah i got pro bow talent players you know so last uh back to tom on one second um he seems like a guy, pregame speech, halftime speech kind of guy that you would actually get fired up.

And I think there's a couple coaches like that. Like, I know Pete Carroll's like that. But there's a couple coaches where it's like when you watch the sports movie, like Al Pacino

on any given Sunday, and he gives that perfect speech to get the team fired up. And it doesn't actually happen in real life. But Tomlin seems like somebody who would actually be able to do it. Was he like that? Yeah, no, so the thing is with Coach Tomlin,

he would give you a speech. Like, whenever he gave me the pregame speech, I'm like, man, I'm ready to play football. Like, I'm ready to play, like. And the thing is, it's so crazy because his pregame speech might not even be like, you know, Al Pacino in any given Sunday. He was like, we have to go out here?

Like, he would be like, man, you know, yesterday I was at my son's game, and then something would happen to his son, and then it's just like, why does this relate with me? You know, but I want to go play football. And, like, he would talk about stuff like that, or he would talk about stuff that really relates with you. Well, it related with me, and I always wanted to play. But at halftime, Coach Tomlin would just pretty much be like,

yo, like, we're playing like ass. Like, you know, we got to figure this shit out. Like, he's more about that than trying to like, trying to hype you back up. He was like,

trying to hype y'all ass up is over now. We need to go out here and play football. And like, he's more about football than anything else. And I think that's another reason the out here and play football. And, like, he's more about football than anything else. And I think that's another reason the Steelers are really

successful. Like, I remember a friend of mine was like, man, when I was at the Giants, man, they would make me I would get fined if I was on my phone in the locker room. I'm like, so you weren't having no meetings,

you weren't doing anything. And they was like, nah, I was just I'm like, and I was like, the meetings you weren't doing anything and it was like no i was i'm like in it i was like the steelers and coach tomlin it's like man like don't bring the phones upstairs but do you but when it's time to work work you know right be grown men about it and i feel like that's another reason he's he's a great coach and when it comes to football it's only about football that really matters well here's what you have for the Steelers. You have five games left. Week 13, Washington at home at 5 o'clock on a Monday. Weird, because they have that weird Monday schedule. So you got that.

I'm tired of them just tearing up our schedules. It's crazy. Yeah, we're going to talk about that in a second. Week 14, Buffalo, Sunday night at Buffalo. So that would be the hard one. And Buffalo, on paper, seems like they're playing better.

I'll go into some reasons why I think they might be in trouble in that Niners game. But that's going to be a tough one. That'll be the game of the year for Buffalo. They're home.

They have a chance to maybe, you know, get a three seed and lock down the AFC East, beat the number one seed, all that stuff. When is the last time, when is the last time Buffalo had a Sunday night game at home?

Oh my God. It's been, I can't even imagine. It's gotta have been a long time, right? It has to be. Then you got week 15 at Cincinnati. They don't have Borough.

So you'll be at least, you know, 11 point favorites in that game. Week 16 home for Indy, who Indy, who Indy seems like the good-bad team in a lot of ways. As long as they're playing somebody who's mediocre or worse, they look great. But if they're playing

a really good team, I don't know about them. And then Cleveland. At Cleveland, Week 17. Now, that game might not mean anything. Honestly, I think that game is not going to mean anything because I think the Chiefs

will lose another one. Right. So if you're 15-0, what does Tomlin do? What do you think? Coach Tomlin is all about winning. Right. So you go for the 16-0

because that's what Belichick was like. Belichick's like, we're not rolling over for a game. Let's go for it. Yeah, especially if the game doesn't mean anything,

it's going to be hard. But, you know, at the end of the day, if you're going for like the record books too, it's kind of hard not to go for it, you know? I think you're just going to go for it. Yeah, you have to go for it. Because if you win all your games and you technically go 16-0,

then you have the playoffs, so you'll go 20-0 if you win every game. It would be 19-0 because you get a buy in the first round yeah 19 three playoff games yeah so i feel if you you'll be the only team to ever go 19 and 0 in history and you'll be me personally if i'm the coach i'm going for it you know i'm going for it so you know what i'll say if you go 19 and 0 i'll say aster season season. It was the COVID season. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Asterisk season. So is it like that for the Lakers?

Is it like that for the Lakers? Yeah. That's where I've settled into as a Celtic fan. I've decided to put an asterisk next to it. We're going to do million-dollar picks in a second. Let's take a break. Life and death were two very realistic coexisting possibilities in my life. I didn't even think I'd make it to like my 16th birthday, to be honest.

I grew up being scared of who I was. Any one of us at any time can be affected by mental health and addictions. Just taking that first step makes a big difference. It's the hardest step. But CAMH was there from the beginning. Everyone deserves better mental health care. To hear more stories of recovery, visit CAMH.ca. All right. So before we do the picks, you mentioned this goofy schedule with the games getting yanked around. We saw it with

Pittsburgh where they thought they were playing Monday, then it was Tuesday, then it was Wednesday. As a player, don't you have to start peaking mentally a couple days before the game to get ready for the game? How do you do that if it keeps moving? Yeah, no, it's extremely frustrating. I was talking to Vince Williams, who was playing, and I know he had said something before. It was about, you know, we're just trying to play.

We'll play whenever. And they do want to play whenever. But I talked to him the day before on Wednesday, and he was talking about how he's super excited about playing on Thanksgiving. You know, that's a that's an amazing moment. You get to play on Thanksgiving. Obviously, the Steelers play on Thanksgiving a few times. But the Sunday night game on Thanksgiving, I mean, the Thursday night game on Thanksgiving is probably the biggest football game of the year when everybody's watching technically.

Yeah. You know, so and so those guys were hyped up and ready to play. But just in general, you are pretty hyped up and just like, all right, it's time to go. And the day before the game, you're always like, all right, we got a game tomorrow. But for it to keep moving like that, it does throw you off because it moved on the Steelers four times or three times. So when they were on Saturday, I mean, on Sunday, they told them it was going saturday on me on sunday they told them it's

gonna be on monday no but they told me no they told me it's gonna be on monday then so the sunday before you know we're getting ready then you're thinking about going to the hotel but then they move it back again so now you don't go to the hotel then next day you're like i'm going to the hotel then they didn't move it again it's like all right now you're thinking when am i going to play this football game because like mentally it's kind of draining because you just you you like hyping yourself up not even hyping yourself up but just preparing yourself for a moment but it it ended up happening literally a week later than you actually prepare which is crazy ridiculous all right million. Million dollar pick. I'm going to go through some games I like. I'm going to bounce them off you.

Then I'll decide at the end what I'm doing. First one. I'm lumping three games together, but the most important piece of it is Titans minus six over the Browns. Okay. Tennessee is

12th in DVOA. Cleveland's 22nd in DVOA. Miles Garrett is back for the Browns and that has to be factored in because

you could say he's somewhere between the second and fourth most impactful defensive player when he actually plays. You also have everybody likes

Tennessee again because they've won a couple times. Now everybody's like, oh, Derrick Henry, MVP. Here we go. And that's always a red flag. Two really good running games.

And it's one of those games where whoever goes up 10 to 3, you'll just feel like that team's going to win. So it's almost like who gets the lead first. The thing I keep coming back to, Cleveland's rushing DVOA for their rush D, 27th out of 32. So you can really, really, really run on them. And that's what Tennessee loves to do more than anything.

And I keep thinking about this. I was thinking about the Browns in general, right? Where somehow they're 8-3. Every year there's a team right around now where you're like, how the fuck are those guys 8-3? It's just confusing. Week six, they get killed by Pittsburgh. 38-7, it's a demolition. They get destroyed and then they lose Odell. They barely beat Cincinnati. They lose to Vegas 16-6, bad weather. And then bye week. And then they beat Houston by three. They beat that crap Eagles team by five.

They beat Jacksonville by two. And now people are like, oh, the Browns, 8-3. And it's like, eh, look at those wins. Who are they beating? I never thought about that. I never thought about that.

You actually go to the back and talking about every single win they have. It makes me not think they're like, they don't deserve to be an 83 team. Like what you said. Well, listen to this. Here are their wins. They beat Cincy twice. They beat Washington and Dallas.

They beat Indianapolis. That's probably their one decent win. And then they beat the Houston-Philly-Jacksonville gauntlet for the last three. I mean, really, Indianapolis is their best win. And I feel like, and I actually bet on the Browns a few times

because I do think against bad teams, they can run the ball, get the lead. Stefanski's a good coach. He'll be really careful how he uses Mayfield. The question for me is like, what happens if they're behind? What happens if the other team can start running on them? And I actually think they have a chance to get beaten up pretty badly. So we're going to mark that game. Second one, this is every week, the rest of the year, I am just putting in a bet together the two teams that are playing the Jets and the Jaguars because Trevor Lawrence is waiting.

Neither team has any incentive to win. And this week we had the Vikings by 10.5 over the Jaguars and the Raiders by 9.5 over the Jets. So mark those down because we're going to come back to them because what I think I'm going to do... Are you familiar with teasers, Mr. Shazier? So you're going to have to teach me a little bit more about betting because the reason I haven't really gotten to it is because I feel that I will start betting too much.

Oh, this is a dream come true to teach you about gambling. So here's one of the things you can do. You do a three-team 10-point tease. You can move the line 10 points for each game, but all of them have to win. So I can move the Vikings to a half point. All they have to do is beat the Jaguars. I can move the Raiders to plus half point. All they have to do is beat the Jaguars. I can move the Raiders to plus half point.

All they have to do is beat the Jets. And then I can use that 10 points with the Titans and make them plus four. So all they have to do is win. All they have to do is lose by three, and I win my bet. So they can actually lose by a field goal. I still win.

So I was thinking about teasing those three together. I have a little buffer with the Titans, so mark that one down. But the real reason is the Jaguars don't want to win anymore. The Jets fans will riot if they win a game. The Jets fans are like, can we just do this correctly? Can we go 16-1 here? Have you thought about what would it

be like to be on a team that the fans want them to lose every week? I won't be surprised if the Jets win this week. Really? Why? Give me the case. The reason I say that is because the Raiders are so up and down as a football team. Yeah. That's the only reason I feel. I don't have

a strong case for them at all. I don't have a strong case for them. The case against that would be the Raiders had their shit game last week, so now this is the zig. And then next week they'll suck again. That might be one of those teams, right? The team that just every week they're up and down.

This is my question for you. If you Trevor Lawrence, would you go to the jets? We have to think of the upside of I am in. I am a New York city quarterback. Like think of Herbert was on the jets right now, but the New York fans would be so excited for him, but there'll still be old 11. Right.

You're going to a bad organization. So what would you do if you were Lawrence? I would do what Eli Manning did and John Elway. You know, that's, that's the NBA player move, right? Where the NBA players are just like, no, I'm going to play where I'd like to play. And that's what I'll nba player move right where the nba players are just like

no i'm gonna play where i'd like to play and that's what i'll be like anthony davis i think he has enough leverage i feel like he has enough leverage to do it like they're saying like he's the next coming of a great quarterback i don't see why not the funny thing is eli did that and i i was i'm old enough to remember when elway did it everybody lost their fucking minds it was like he's not gonna to play for Baltimore? What a dick. Oh, my God. What a jerk.

And it's like, guess what? Nobody remembers that now, 37 years later. Not one person remembers he did that. The thing is, when you demand a trade in football, you become a villain. Like, people hate you. If you demand a trade in basketball, everybody's like, he's just trying to better his career.

Right. So. He only has so many years to earn money. He should be able to do what he wants. Because I thought what Anthony Davis did to New Orleans was like really genuinely lousy. He signed this five-year extension and then halfway through it was like, yeah, can you guys trade me now?

And can you only trade me to the Lakers and take no other offers? And everybody's like, no, no, he's using his leverage. I never sat right with me. All right, next game. Colts. I don't know if I'm going to do anything with this one, but I just want to talk about Colts

are minus three and a half over the Texans. All of the public money is on Indianapolis. And here's what that means. The public always loses in gambling. Every week there's like two or three bets and everybody's like, oh, that looks easy. And then they lose. And that's why they keep building casinos in Vegas.

Indianapolis by DVOA is seventh. Houston is 17th. Houston had, they lost Will Fuller and they lost another guy to PEDs. Who was the other guy they lost? I'm blanking. Defensive guy. One of my best friends.

Brandon Roby? Bradley Roby. Bradley Roby, yeah, yeah. Defensive guy. One of my best friends. Brandon Roby? Bradley Roby. Bradley Roby, yeah. Yeah, that's one of my best friends. I'm like, bro, what are you doing? Well, it's always an accident when it happens. They always say they didn't know.

They didn't know it wasn't there. So two guys. So now everybody's like, oh, the Colts will obviously win. Well, the Colts looked like dog shit last week. And the Colts are a team that you can watch them in the first quarter and kind of know what's going to happen.

I don't know. This game is suspicious to me. They're only three and a half point favorites. The Texans are playing for nothing. Aren't the Texans like a four-game winning streak or something like that? A three-game winning streak? Three-game winning streak. And Deshaun has been cooking.

So I kind of want to take the Texans, but i don't have the balls to do it so that means that the texans lost two receivers this week yeah hmm yeah i might have to go to colts i know because the reason i'm going to coast is their defense is one of the top five defenses in the league we're number one but last week they looked terrible. It's hard to play quarterback when you don't have as many receivers. Brandon Cooks is good, but I don't know if the other guys can do it. The other thing with the Colts, Jonathan Taylor is coming

back this week, the rookie running back. He was on the COVID list. They have all their weapons back. Something's fishy about that game. I'm going to mark it down. Here's a game that I love. You're going to laugh.

Patriots minus one against the chargers taking charges. Oh, this is great. Let's talk it out. So DVO way. They're about the same. Pats have a very good secondary. It's the one good piece of the defense against Herbert.

You bell check against a rookie quarterback, which I just like, he loves to do that. Um,ichick against a rookie quarterback, which I just like, he loves to do that. Um, chargers defense 31st, 31st. There's only 32 teams, 31st and rushing DVO a meaning they're terrible against the rush.

What is yours? Your offense. All right. We can run the ball. We can't throw it. So we're like in the top seven or eight Russian. Um, and then Belichick, who is the best coach of all time. Sorry, Mike Tomlin.

No, you got 60. Yeah, you'd even admit. Also a master at close games, tight games, whatever. The little things, the extra things. Against the Chargers and Anthony Lynn, who week after week, they lose the dumbest game possible and do five dumb things. This just feels like a classic Patriots game where it's like, man, I can't believe we won that game,

but thank God the Chargers did those five dumb things and Herbert threw that pick into traffic and somehow we won and Cam only had 70 yards passing and I can't believe we're 6-6. That's my angle. The fact that they had a 31st rush defense and you guys are top 10 scares me. So I think because one thing that Bill Belichick is going to do,

if you guys are doing something well, he's going to stick to it. So y'all are going to run the ball. So that scares me. But I like Herbert. And I think he has weapons. I think you guys won the game that you weren't supposed to win last week. So that's why I feel like you're going to lose it this week. You just don't want to see us in the playoffs.

Can you do your quick 90 seconds on what you think is wrong with Cam? To me, I feel like Cam doesn't have as much confidence as he used to have i feel that when he used to be superman cam you know you couldn't stop him you know he didn't really he used to get hit but he didn't really care about it as much now he's complaining a lot about him and then also i think his arm is shot like i remember when we played against him when we were the stillers and the cardinals i mean uh he was at the Panthers. And I remember, like, our scouts told us he can't throw the ball past 40 yards. So we pretty much were, like, underplaying everything he threw. I think he threw, like, three picks that game.

Like, two for pick six. It was crazy. So I think the fact that everybody understands he can't throw and they're pretty much like, hey, beat us with your arm. And I think it mentally is messing up his psyche. So I don't, that's why I think he's not playing well. You know, you mentioned the Superman thing. He, in that Seattle game, the night game,

when he was awesome, when he had that duel against Wilson and he was throwing the ball really well and more importantly, he had that swagger and his chest was out and he was doing all the Cam stuff. And me and my Pats fans, friends, we were so excited.

We were like, holy shit. Yeah, you did a good. This is like Cam from five years ago. This is unbelievable. And something's different. He had, you know, they kicked the game-winning field goal last week and it looked like he was going to start crying

on the sidelines and they were like consoling him. And he was so upset by how he played and it was like watching, not Superman, buting him. He was so upset by how he played. It was like watching not Superman, but Clark Kent. He had the fucking glasses on. It was like, wow, what happened to this guy? I think they can win this week

and then next week. They have to stay in LA because it's Chargers and Rams. They can either fly back and forth or just stay here. They're losing to Rams. My feeling is 6-6, then the Rams game is the one that falls apart. And then Aaron Donald just destroys Cam

and the whole thing. Alright, Mark, down and down. Next one. This is another coaching matchup. Rams minus three Cardinals. For DVOA, Rams are 6, Arizona's 13. Two things I don't like about this game for the Cardinals. And I like the Cardinals. Murray didn't look right last week against the Pats.

He looked hurt. It didn't look like he wanted to scramble. They had specific spots where it felt like he could have taken off. And I have them both in my fantasy leagues. I've watched a lot of them. He takes off. Like he's aggressive. He's,

you know, he, in the Pats game, he was really passive and it made me think he was hurt. I didn't think he threw the ball that well either. And the Rams obviously have a really good pass rush against the right teams. The other piece is the coaching.

Sean McVay on one side. Cliff Kingsbury on the other one. They're basically the NFC Chargers. They just do dumb shit in games. They game management stuff, and I feel like it's cost them two to three games already this year. Yeah, they should not have lost

that game last week to you. No. They should not have lost that game last week. And by the way, they should have lost the Bills game that they shouldn't have.

That was another one they shouldn't have lost, but then they ended up stealing it with the Hail Mary. But that was another one where had they lost it, you'd be like, oh my God,

how did you lose that? So I just think, I just think they're too sloppy. And it's frustrating because I do think they have the talent. I think they have as much talent as anyone in that division, but they're too sloppy. Last one. This is my favorite one. The Bills are at the Niners.

The game's not even being played in San Francisco. I think they have to go to San Diego. I think that's where they settled. They're going somewhere else. A lot of people on the Bills bandwagon right now. They're a Hail Mary away from a five-game winning streak. They looked really good last week, and their defense looks better.

I don't know how much you've seen in them last couple weeks, but they have a pass rush again, which I don't know where it was the first two months. Here's what I don't like. The DVOA is about even. Buffalo's 11th, San Francisco's 14th. So two

things I don't like. The Bills have Pittsburgh next week. And I have that theory of when you have that monster game a week away, it kind of lingers out there, right? There's a shadow of that game. You're already thinking about it, right?

Yeah, 100% does. Okay, good. I'm glad you agree. Second one, San Francisco skill guys. Debo was back last week. Debo was awesome in the Rams game. He's the best guy in the field. They also got Mostert back

and Brandon Ayuk, the rookie receiver. So even though they don't have Kittle, they can move the ball and I just like this spot for them. Everybody likes the Bills. The San Francisco's had a lot of weirdness that they're moving the location of the game. They don't know where they're playing, all that stuff.

It's in the Chargers stadium. Not Chargers. The old one. No, the Cardinal stadium. Oh, the Cardinal stadium. Okay. Yeah, the San Diego one. Not Chargers. The old one. No, the Cardinal Stadium. Oh, the Cardinal Stadium. Okay. Yeah. So, one thing I was thinking with this,

because I was reading pieces about San Francisco this week, there's a weird resilience with that team now in a good way. You hear the stuff Shanahan talks about. They've had all these injuries, right? They've had COVID stuff. That Garoppolo's been hurt. Kittle broke his foot. They lost Bosa.

Just over and over again, just some sort of adversity. And basically three weeks ago, everybody's like, they're done. Write them off. And they're still kind of scrapping. And I feel like they've found this identity. But that must resonate with you as somebody who's been on probably at least one team like that, where it's just like, all right, what's next? What's the next obstacle? You start as a group, you start thinking, all right, bring on the next thing. We know we can do this. We know we can get

through stuff. And it feels like San Francisco is like that right now. That's how the Steelers were last year when Ben had got hurt. It was like, we started off really bad and everybody was like, oh snap, this is about to be a long-ass season. And then you start winning games, and you're like, hey, man, we have a great coach. We have good pieces. We just can't lose. We can't cause ourselves to lose these games.

As long as we're in these games, we can win them. And I think that's the mindset that San Francisco has. And the Steelers, we were knocking off teams like the Bills because of the fact that the Bills didn't think we were good enough. Like, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, teams like the Bills, that's why we were knocking them off last year. Yeah, because they assumed it was a walkover because you guys were banged up.

Yeah, we were banged up. So you say that, and them having all those pieces back, I can see San Francisco winning this game. But it seems like you like Buffalo, though, just in general. I do like Buffalo just in general. I think they just Francisco winning this game. But you like, it seems like you like Buffalo, though. Just in general. I do like Buffalo just in general. I think they just have a better team. And to me, I can't say they have a better coach because, you know,

Shanahan's a really good coach. But I feel like Shanahan does things sometimes that put them in bad positions, like the Super Bowl. So I think, I always said that I feel that San Francisco is going to make the playoffs at the beginning of the season. I think four teams can possibly make the playoffs from the NFC West. Right. And for them to do that, I think they'll have to win this week. So that's why I'm going to go with them.

So the other, yeah, the big thing with this game, it's an absolute must win for San Francisco. Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned that, where you look at the conference right now. So we have basically New Orleans, Seattle, Green Bay Rams. And then you have Bucks at seven and five, Cardinals six and five. But then the Vikings and the Niners are both five and six. So nine and seven is probably going to make it. They,

so they, they have potentially one loss left, but I don't feel like it could be this week. Um, Oh wait, I screwed that up. Um, because the NFC East has to be in there.

So actually it's NFC East, St. Seahawks Packers, and then Rams, Bucks, so Cardinals. So they're a game behind the Cardinals in that last spot. So there you go. Oh, long shot parlay possibility. So I didn't like the long shots this week. I had to throw out Washington plus 315 over Pittsburgh though. So what does the plus 315 mean? When I see that embedded, it confuses me.

All right. So that means Washington's basically a 3-1 underdog. So if you bet $100 on Washington and they win, you win $350. Plus your hundred back. Oh, okay. All right, cool.

All right, cool. Like, when I see it... You're not losing to Washington, though, right? No, not happening. Not happening. Are you sure? Because you guys get sloppy.

We get sloppy, but we had our sloppy game. So we're good. Okay. The only thing that scares me with Washington is they have a really good pass game. So we're good. The only thing that scares me with Washington is they have a really good pass rush. So, and, you know, our line is kind of beat up a little bit,

but I still think we're going to win this game. So the other one, so I was thinking if I did a long shot part, because I like to put two together and then you get crazy odds. The other one was Giants-Seattle. Giants are plus 385 over Seattle. So basically almost four to one odds. By every metric, the Giants are better 385 over Seattle. So basically almost four to one odds. By every metric, the Giants are better.

Two things. Seattle's 26th in DVOA on defense. So that always tells me like if your defense is bad, you can stay in the game and you're a high favorite. I always feel like

the other team can hang around. The other thing is Daniel Jones is hurt. So you go, oh man, they don't have their quarterback. Well, was Daniel Jones good? Like I have to say, is it like the worst thing in the world to not have Daniel Jones is hurt. So you go, oh man, they don't have their quarterback. Well, was Daniel Jones good?

Like, is it like the worst thing in the world to not have Daniel Jones? No, not at all. Not at all. So Colt McCoy is replacing him. But you look at the Giants the last seven weeks. They lose to the Rams by eight. Lose to the Dallas on a last second field goal.

Beat Washington by one. Lose to Philly by one. Lose to Tampa by two. Almost tied that game. Beat Washington by three. Beat Philly by one, lose to Tampa by two, almost tied that game, beat Washington by three, beat Philly by ten, beat Cincinnati by two. They really have been playing well for two months. Not playing well, but playing okay.

As long as you can stay in the game, you can win it. You said a three-game winning streak they're on right now? Yeah, three-game winning streak. There's a possibility they can win this game because I didn't like Seattle's defense this whole season and that's why I never had them as a

Super Bowl favorite. Their defense is just so bad. So I think the Giants, as long as they find some way just to stay in the game, they can win it. So if we put Washington and the Giants together, that's 19 to 1. Here's the case for Washington beating you. You don't take the game seriously.

Huge pass rush. Terry McLaurin and Gibson are two very good offensive players. And it's just one of those games. They get like a block punt or something stupid. Punt return, fumble, touchdown. And it's like, let's go to

Washington. Washington is up 13-3. What's going on there? No, I can't see it happening. I can't see it happening. You promise me? I can't see it happening. I really can't.

All right, we'll do Seattle. I'm going to put a little on the Giants. I see Seattle, but I can't see the Steelers losing. I can't see the Steelers losing the game. It's going to be hard for me to say they're going to lose their game of all teams to's going to be hard for me to say they're going to lose their game of all teams to Washington. It's hard for me to say that.

All right. Million dollar picks for week 13. Last week, we won $123,000 fake dollars. We are up $299,000 for the season. So I'm actually up. I'm doing these picks on Thursday. All right. I don't know what's happening with COVID.

You know, any guys can get injured last second. I am so proud of myself, Ryan Chaser. Anyway, Million Dollar Picks, week 13. First one, doing a three-team 10-point tease. Titans minus six, down to plus four against the Browns. Vikings half point over the Jags. Raiders plus a half over the Jets. All three have to win $360,000 to win $300,000 on that.

I'm skipping the Colts game. Next one, Patriots minus one against the Chargers. The classic Bill Belichick. I can't believe this team is six and six when we have no quarterback game. I am putting $330,000 to win 300,000 over the Chargers. All right. Next, next one. Rams minus three against the Cardinals,

mostly because Kyler Murray doesn't look right to me, putting $330,000 to win $300,000 on that. I think coaching battle, I think Sean McVay is just a better coach. That's why he's going to win this game. I'm with you. Last one, Niners plus one over the Bills. We were putting $330,000

to win $300,000 on that. And then just for fun, $50,000 on the Giants plus $385,000 to beat Seattle with Colt McCoy, who hasn't won a game in six years. And that's why you get the odds. That's why you get four to one odds.

That is our million dollar picks. Oh my gosh. That is our million dollar picks. Oh my gosh. That is our million dollar picks for week 13. Before we go, tell us about the Ryan Shazier Foundation and everything you're doing. You just launched it. You had a little Instagram thing the other day, but you're putting a lot of time and energy into this. So tell the people about it.

Tell them how to donate. Yeah, so I started the Ryan Shazier Fund for spinal rehabilitation. For all those who know who I am, obviously, I got hurt through a spinal cord injury playing football. And I was treated amazingly. I had so much support from across the country when it came to the NFL, my family, and people I didn't know. They all were very supportive. But it's a lot of people with spinal cord issues that are going through the same things I went through, but they don't have the same type of support.

Right. And, you know, it's really hard to try to come back to some type of normalcy, some type of independent lifestyle because you become very dependent on people. And I wanted to create this foundation to allow us to give people more support, give the caregivers more support, because when you go through this, you always feel like you're alone. So we want to be somebody that's there for them, but the caregivers, they don't understand how to deal with the situation either because you never dealt with somebody that's dealing with this. So we want to be able to help them and the caregivers and just provide people, you know, some support, something that they know that, hey, I'm going through this,

but I have somebody that can help me get through this and just allow people to get back to some type of normalcy. So I just thought it would be amazing to give what I always receive. And the best way to connect with the foundation is you can go to ryanchaizierfund.org or you can go to my Instagram. My Instagram also has the links on there that you can go to so you can donate and there's other ways to get involved. So I really appreciate that. And this was something you had been thinking about and thinking about how to put together for a long time. Yes, yes. It was a very long time. When I had got hurt, I would just, I would be in my room and I would just see that I was able to have people around, get some support. But then I would go to, go to other rooms and talk to other people. But then also when I would be walking to my rehab or in my wheelchair, willing to my rehab, I'll see other people in their rooms and they just felt like they were extremely isolated. It almost felt like it was COVID before COVID when you're in the hospital. And, you know, I just seen how difficult it was for a lot of people. And I just, I just was like, man, when I get the opportunity to be able to come back and help people the way

I was, I thought it would be the only thing to do. And that's, that's what, that's when I started thinking about it. And then, uh, I officially announced it last Monday. Do you think the science with, um, trying to fix spinal cord injuries, how far away are we from just being able to solve this? Cause it seems like they've made a lot of strides in the last like 40, 50 years, but where, like, where are we now? Big picture. They're making a lot of strides, but you know, it's still a long process, uh, because you know, the nervous system is so, and the spinal cord system is so but you know, it's still a long process, uh, because you know, the nervous system is so in the spinal cord system is so, you know, delicate. So it was just, you know, one little

thing, one little bump in your spine can just change so many things that's going on in your body. So we're doing really well. Uh, people are definitely getting a lot better compared to when they were, but it's still a long process and they're doing a lot of research for it. But, um, every, every year, every day you're finding new things out and people are starting to get a lot better. All right. So Ryan Shazier fund.org and people can go there and you have all the information on there and if they want to donate even better, um, it's good stuff you're doing. Ryan Shazier, we can hear you on Tuesdays on the Ringer NFL show worst of luck for the Steelers going 16-0 I'm rooting against you and I hope we see you

in round one somehow we're not going to see you in round one but I appreciate you you know and when we go to the Super Bowl Bill I know you might be there so I want you to be rooting for us when we have this 19-0 championship ring so let me tell you something if you go to the Super Bowl I'm definitely not going to be rooting for us when we have this 19 and 0 championship ring. So let me tell you

something. If you go to the Superbowl, I'm definitely not going to be there. I read all those Steeler fans. That sounds terrible. All right. It was good to see you. Thank you. Good to see you too, man. That's it for the Bill Simmons podcast. Don't forget about my newest episode on book of basketball. It's about Chris Paul. It's with Ryan Rosillo. Also did a new Rewatchables this week, Wall Street. And don't forget to subscribe to The Mismatch with Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor on their new feed. They are doing it twice a week, talking NBA like always. Good luck to those guys.

Good luck to everybody out there. Stay safe. See you on Sunday night. On the wayside On the first side of the road Saying I don't have To ever forget