The Bill Simmons Podcast - How Does LeBron’s Career Play Out? With Brian Windhorst, Plus Teen Patrol (Fall Edition) With Zoe Simmons

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN's Brian Windhorst to discuss "The last stage of LeBron James.'' They discuss his extension with the Lakers, various outcomes for the end of his career, the future of Anthony Davis, midseason trades, NBA expansion, and more (2:13)! Then, Bill talks with his daughter Zoe about changing her social media habits, the senior year of high school, Netflix's 'Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story,' and other teen culture observations (1:21:26). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Brian Windhorst and Zoe Simmons Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Call me sentimental, but to me, the most joyful moment in sports is the soccer goal. And when that goal happens at the World Cup, well, it's pretty good. I'm Brian Phillips. With the 2022 Men's World Cup approaching, I'm making a podcast called 22 Goals on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's about 22 of the most fire emoji goals in the history of the tournament. We're going to have so much fun. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is

a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that.

Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers, and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today?

Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what

you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way if you were wrong. You could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs in the next drive. They have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season.

Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit

rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus

and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we put up the single most important rewatchables podcast we've ever done. Boogie Nights, my favorite movie the last 25 years for my birthday. I got Sean Fantasy and Chris Ryan to join me. Two parts. It is over four hours long.

It was just immense amount of fun. It was the first two-part rewatchables we ever did. So that is up. That is up for posterity. I'm so glad we did it. I don't know. That might have been my last rewatchables. We'll see. We'll see what happens.

Might have to turn the feed over to some other people. I'm still debating. I might have gone out on a bang with that one. We'll see. You'll find out Monday. Coming up on this podcast, our old friend Brian Winhorst, ESPN NBA guru slash 2022 summer star. We'll go into that quickly, but we're really going to talk about this last era that LeBron

is moving into and what that's going to mean for his career, the Lakers, some predictions. And then we talked about a whole bunch of NBA stuff, but it was so much fun to talk to him. My daughter Zoe Simmons joined to update us on teen culture as we head toward the end of 2022, post-pandemic, what's going on, what people care about, what are the trends and that kind of stuff. So it's all next first our friends from pearl jam All right, taping this. It is early afternoon Pacific time. Brian Windhorst from ESPN is here.

He's in Minnesota at one of the many media days we've had over the last couple of days. One of the stars of the summer since the last time we talked, Windhorst. I think it was you and Harry Styles. I think we're the two stars of the summer. You're now iconic Utah prediction. It's just all kinds of stuff.

So I did want to do some prediction stuff with you. You've already talked about the Utah scoop and other pods, but I was very happy for you. We've known each other for a long time. It was nice to see you get showered with adoration, love, respect, awe. Predictions. So I want to talk about LeBron first. showered with adoration, love, respect, awe, predictions. So I want to talk about LeBron first,

a guy that you covered since he was a teenager in Akron, Ohio. He is now a 37-year-old man. He's going to turn 38 during this season. He has scored over 37,000 points. He's going to break the scoring record this year if he does get injured. Conceivably could start the 40-10-10 K club for points, rebounds, assists, which I find hard to believe will happen again. But I don't know what this last phase of his career

is going to look like. Because first of all, he's got NBA mortality working against him. He's played more playoff regular season minutes than anyone except Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. 63,000 combined. Kareem was at 66. He's had a lot of miles on him. He takes care of his body as well or better than anyone in the history of the game.

But turning 38 on a Lakers roster that I don't feel like is top eight in the West. He's under contract. He can't be traded this year. It seems like he wants to be a Laker for life. And this could go in a variety of directions. Have you ever seen more uncertainty with the future of LeBron James? It's the first time he's, in my opinion, he may dispute this. It's the first time he made a contract decision that may not have been championships first. And that doesn't mean that the...

I mean, they're the Lakers. So by virtue of you being... The Lakers have been in the finals how many times out of 75 years? Is it 20 times? Something like that? Oh, yeah. No, it's like 20. I think it's like 25 yeah okay so it's got to be 25 to 26 right so like just by virtue of saying i'm a laker you know historically

you get a one in three chance of making the finals he's been there four years they made the finals once if he was there for another four or maybe they'd make it again. So I don't want to make it sound like there's no chance, but when he came to the Lakers in 2018, they didn't have a team around him, but they had great potential. They had all their picks. They had a they used all that stuff and they got a title. Now, their prospects are not there. So I think he's making a decision, which by the way, he has every right to. He's making a decision like, this is where I want to be at the end of my career. He was never totally comfortable in Miami. As soon as the season ended, he was out of there, back to Akron. And maybe even if he played in LA at that time in his life, that that would have been the way he was. But he was never comfortable there. He's comfortable in LA.

His roots are in... His daughter is being raised in LA. His sons have spent a big chunk of their formative years there. He handpicked their high school. He's building this huge compound, like Studio Baron compound in Beverly Hills. I mean, that guy, he's an LA guy now. And I just think that he didn't have to sign.

He didn't need the financial security to know that he was locked in for the extra 30, whatever it was, 50 million. But when he signed this contract and said, not only am I going to give the Lakers more time, but I'm going to take the pressure off this season. That to me was him saying, look, I want to be a Laker. And if we win, I'm going to work hard. If we win, great. If we don't, I got other stuff that's going to keep my life fulfilled at this point. I mean, again, he could dispute that, but that's my read on the situation. I looked at the extension like this. That was his commitment to them so that they would trade

those first round picks. He had to give up something. It was basically, he was in the same situation in Cleveland in 2017, 18, right? When he was trying to get them to trade the pick that became Colin Sexton. And they wouldn't trade it because they're like, we don't think you're going to be here next year. Oh, no, no, we should. But he wasn't going to be there next year. And everybody knew

he was going to LA. I think in this case, you have that Westbrook contract, which becomes an expiring the moment the season starts. And by December, January, February, it's a lot of money. You could bring a lot of stuff back

with those picks. But I think they made it clear to him, A, stop with everything you did in All-Star Weekend. You're not doing that anymore if you want to stay here, where, as you mentioned, his family is, he wants to set up roots here. You still need a team to play for. And if you're going to do that stuff, that's just not going to work. And then two, we're not giving away the end of the 2020s if you're just going to bolt. So I think it's interesting with that extension. They literally can't trade him this year.

So you made an interesting reference to that interview that he gave in Cleveland. Yeah. In 24 years of covering LeBron, the interview wasn't to me, it was with The Athletic. That was one of the most out-of-pocket interviews he's ever given.

What do you mean by out-of-pocket? He went way out over his skis with that one. Not only in that interview did he basically... I mean, he said, I'm not closing the door on coming back to Cleveland.

I mean, he tried to qualify it by like, oh, but it could be just a one-day contract. But he knew exactly what he was doing. He was talking to a Cleveland-based reporter with the Cavs holding salary cap space in Cleveland on All-Star weekend, a week after the Lakers

took inaction at the trade deadline, which irritated him. Yeah. So he went ahead and did that, which caused a major ripple within the Lakers and the Lakers fan base. So he's still, in some ways, walking back. But also in the interview, he talked about how he was going to play with Bronny, his son. And he's like, my last year will be with my son. And in this recent interview that he just

gave to Sports Illustrated on the anniversary of him being on the cover, and he was talking about how his wife, Savannah, wasn't exactly down with that because he basically was saying, yeah, Bronny will be in the NBA

in two years and I'll play with them. It's like, well, wait, yeah, Bronny will be in the NBA in two years and I'm going to play with them. And it's like, well, wait a minute. Bronny may be in the NBA, but he's not like a young LeBron. He he's not age 17, like going to be the number one pick. And I think Savannah, his wife, again, based on that sports illustrated interview was like, what did you just say? And they've kind of been incrementally walking that back.

He's been walking that interview back for six months now, to be honest with you. And now all of a sudden, Bronny looks like he might be going to college. I think he is going to go to college, maybe for multiple years. So I think something was in him. It was in the morning.

They had a morning practice on that Saturday morning at Cleveland State. And he must have just been feeling himself. He just got loose. Yeah. And that interview was not ideal for him. Well, and he's also somebody who's given so many interviews for the last 20 years that he's fully aware of exactly what the ramifications of every word is and how they will be received yes he's given thousands and i will say he's gotten

looser with his interviews as the years have gone on he's he's said and done some stuff in interviews since he went with the lakers that he wouldn't have done earlier and i think that just comes with he's a little bit more self-confident. But yeah, you're right. They can't really trade him. Well, they, by rule, can't trade him for a season. The thing with his son, I don't want to

litigate what his son, the kids in high school, I don't think it's fair for people to be like, oh, could he play what year? Could he play stuff like that? But the one thing we know is that for somebody to jump right into the NBA or be there a year, be ready, it's usually somebody that's in like the top five, six, seven, eight, nine players in any top hundred ranking. There's a final level that you kind of have to be in there if that's realistic. What it does seem like he has a chance to do is play in college for multiple years and then potentially make the league as,

as somebody who could be like an athletic defensive guard who can shoot threes. Everybody says he's, you know, he's, if you've watched him, he's like very fun to play with. Who knows? He might be too short, but he plays a lot like LeBron. He plays the game such the right way. I mean, the interesting things about his sons and look, I am not a high school basketball recruiting expert. Me neither am I. I will just tell you that since Bronny was like 12 or 13, he was in much better condition as a 14, 15, 16-year-old

than his dad was. What I mean by that is I don't think LeBron lifted weights until he was 16. Bronny had a personal trainer when he was 12. I mean, he was in tremendous condition as a 14-year-old. That kid has poured in the work. And you can tell he really cares about the way he plays. Yeah. That kid has poured in the work and you can tell he really cares about the way he plays. Yeah.

But the interesting thing is that his second son, Bryce, who's 15, um, he was born during the 2007 finals. So he's, he's like a, a young,

I think he's a young, I think he's gonna be a sophomore. Yeah. Yeah. But a young sophomore. Yeah. Yeah. But a young sophomore. He is much more physically gifted. He's taller than Bronny already. He looks more like his dad did, although not really.

But he is more reminiscent of what LeBron looked like as a 15, 16-year-old. And he has a lot of different interests. I mean, he is getting into basketball, but he doesn't have the same, at least to this point, he doesn't have the same focus on basketball that Bronny does. So the interesting thing is the more naturally talented son appears to be his second son, Bryce. But the one who wants it so badly is Bronny. And so you wonder how that's going to play out. LeBron had the body and had the incredible desire. So I'll be interested to see. But there's a bunch of NBA executives and scouts and coaches, Bill,

who have sons who are on the AAU circuit. So when I talk to them, they say, they go, Bryce is the prospect. Bryce is the guy that at 15, they're like, whoa, watch this kid. Ronnie is the kid they were like, boy, look at this kid's love of the game. Look at the way he plays. They

loved his makeup. They loved the way he played, but they didn't see him as like, oh my God, look at this incredible talent. We'll see how that plays out. I think this will be a big senior year for him because the LA high school basketball scene is fantastic. And for it to be realistic for him to like play a year in the G League and then go into the NBA, which I think a lot of people think is realistic or play a year in college. Remember Hardy, the kid that Dallas ended up getting the second round, but he was supposed to be this top five prospect. The G League's hard. The G League's a really good league now. It's got a bunch of kids that are either

first-round picks trying to play themselves into the league or 27-year-old guys trying to one last chance. It's not easy. Have you ever gone to Sierra Canyon? I have. My daughter's had games there. It's like easy. Have you ever gone to Sierra Canyon? Oh, I have. My daughter said games there. Yeah.

It's like a college campus. So I went to the same high school as LeBron did, obviously. And when the kids left, I mean, the high school is still highly competitive. They won the state title last year. But when LeBron went to the Lakers, St. V lost two big-time LeBron James siblings to play. Yeah. So when Bronny was a freshman,

I went and spent some time at Sierra Canyon. What an impressive place. I was so impressed and 100% got it why LeBron had his kids there. And what I like about Sierra Canyon is that they don't pretend that they're not trying to create pro and college basketball players. Yes.

You know, some of these places are like, Oh, are you giving them free tuition? Or are you like taking care of their cousins? And they're like, yeah, we have a bunch of rich kids who pay us a lot of money and raise a lot of money from, and then we give... I loved it. And Brandon Boston, who's now with the Clippers, was on the team then. And I remember interviewing him. And I don't know, you probably don't want, this is maybe boring,

but he was already committed to Kentucky and he transferred there for his senior year. He didn't need, it was clear to me he was going to be an NBA player. He probably thought he was going to be a first round pick, but I remember asking him, I go, why'd you come here? And he's from the Atlanta area,

like suburban Atlanta. And he goes, because they told me that they would let my sister in and it was an opportunity for her to get a great education And it was like wow What a spectacular answer what a spectacular reason And what a spectacular thing that the school would do that and not like pretend that they're not like back in the days Of when west wesley this is what what Wes Wesley used to try to arrange. He would say, all right, we'll guide your kid to this college,

but take care of his family or whatever. And that was seen as, oh my gosh, he's like an operator taboo. This is just what Wes was doing. Wes was setting up kids who were totally helping these schools out and trying to get them ways to help their families, help the kids. And so I was so relieved that Sierra Canyon was like, yeah, this is what we're doing. They're very transparent about it. I mean,

they have people transferring in like August, mid-August to be on the basketball team. They operate almost like an AAU team as much as a school. But look, especially now in this NIL world that we're in, I'm not, what are the rules? It's so much better. I'm sorry. This wasn't what you wanted to talk about. No, no. I thought it was a good tangent. It's one of my son's schools, one of their rivals. So I'm biting my tongue on a lot of stuff. But I assume that Sierra kicks your son's team's butts because they have the greatest players. No, they beat them last year. Oh, okay.

I'm sorry. The Harvard Westside beat them last year. Wait, we're going to take a break and then I'm going to give you four LeBron outcomes and we'll go through them. Start the NFL week off right

with a no sweat, same game partly every Thursday from FanDuel, America's number one sports book. It doesn't matter if you're new to FanDuel, if you already have an account. Every Thursday night, you'll get free bets back if your NFL same game parlay doesn't hit. Same game parlays are the perfect way to combine your bets for a chance at a bigger parlay. This looks like a terrible spot for the Dolphins on Thursday night. So maybe that's the value. Maybe you put together a little Miami money line, which is plus 170 range as we're taping this. Get Tyreek Hill in there as an anytime touchdown scorer. And maybe

even get Tyreek Hill 100 yards because if they're going to win the game, Tyreek Hill is probably going to do some stuff. We'll see who's the quarterback for them. Do a bet like that. Build your own or choose from one of the popular same game parlays pre-built for you in FanDuel's top rated sports book. However you want to play, you can bet the NFL every Thursday night with a no sweat, same game parlay.

Sign up with promo code BS if you don't already have an account. That is promo code BS to get free bets back if your same game parlay doesn't hit. Make every moment more with FanDuel, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Must be 21 plus in select states. Three plus legs, minimum $1 bet required.

Refund issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max free bet, $5. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey.

Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache,

you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, Brian Windhorst, I'm giving you four LeBron outcomes for the last stage of LeBron. Cause I think we are entering now last stage of LeBron. I agree. Yep. Now somebody could watch Tom Brady's career and be like, well, wait, what was the, Tom Brady was telling us he was going to play till 45 when he was in like 2010. I'm not surprised that he's still playing. LeBron has different wear and tear things against him in basketball. And he's now Neil Armstrong. Once he gets to 70,000 minutes and some of this stuff and 300 playoff games or whatever, these are just things I have no idea how to even calculate them.

But here are the four options. Number one, Laker for life. Number two, Cleveland 3.0 number three title chaser and number four assuming his son can be good enough which I think is a huge variable that I don't want to count on and I would say the odds are against it not for it but I just want to play with my son I don't care you name

the team which son that's the key yeah either son hanging on for as long as possible to play with one of the sons. I am going to make the case for title chaser. Wow. Because I think he can chase a title in a way that's not Mitch Richmond on the 2000 Lakers. You think like even Carl Malone on the 04 Lakers who got hurt in the playoffs and they

were never the same, but he was a really valuable member of that team on and off the court and was still pretty good. And by the way, that team was good. Yeah. They weren't like 67 wins like people might have thought, but that team was very good. That team beat the Spurs during the middle of the Duncan run. That team was like a minus 500 favorite in the finals. So it's not like that season was a failure. But at the same time, I'm looking at the odds with

LeBron here. Just people still in the league. So you go through the 0-3, 0-4, 0-5, 0-6 drafts. Iguodala's 38-0-4 draft. Carmelo 38-0-3. Millsap, who I don't even know. Is he even on a team this year? No. He's not. So he's out.

Cross him off. Chris Paul's 37-0-5. Aldridge 37-0-6. He doesn't have a team right now. Doesn't have a team. Lowry and Gay are 0-6 draft, both 36. And Dwight Howard, 0-5 draft, 36. Those are his quote-unquote age

range peers. And all of those guys, except for Chris Paul, are on their way out of the league. And Chris Paul, I don't know how many more years he has. So when you think of it that way, it's like, all right, not only would this be incredible just with NBA history, everyone from his quote-unquote class is either gone or on their way out or they're Chris Paul. And that's it. That's the entire list. So I don't know what to count on, which makes me wonder if title chaser, because he's got the four rings. He's two behind Jordan. He's one behind Kobe. He's one behind Duncan. He's the same amount as Curry. Is he going to be happy just having the four rings? If he's thinking about how do I put together my argument

that I'm the goat, I'm the best player of all time. I don't think the four rings is going to be happy just having the four rings? If he's thinking about how do I put together my argument that I'm the goat, I'm the best player of all time. I don't think the four rings is going to be enough. I don't. Well, I will say that last year as a 36 turning 37 year old, he had his second highest scoring average in his career. Now the game is played differently than early on.

I mean, boy, some of the old LeBron games that you can watch on NBA TV, it's rough. I mean, he's great, but it's rough basketball. It's rough basketball.

The league's way worse. It just was. That's a reality. Go through the all NBA teams. We just didn't have the same level of talent. We didn't. I mean,

I was just at the Timberwolves first practice today and I was watching him out there, and Carl Towns isn't even here. He's under the weather. But I'm looking at this team, and I'm like, there'd be years where this team would be

number two seed in the West. There'd be 30 media outlets here because this team would be loaded. Think of some of the teams that KG was on that would have loved to have. Right. Like this is a team that like might play great this year and finish fifth or six in the West.

Or seven. Literally they could finish seventh. Then I wouldn't be shocked. Yeah. So, okay. So here's the thing. Flip that around with LeBron in 2018.

Look at the team he was on in 2018 and put that team in the West with like a peak LeBron. I think that team's probably not a top five seed. The league's just better. Anyway, I interrupted you. Yeah, no. I mean, that's the thing, Bill.

Like some of the years that LeBron got through the East with the Cavs. Yeah. Those teams would have... I mean, forget about it. Forget about getting out of the second round with some of those teams. Yeah.

Even with LeBron at that power, with where the East is right now. Anyway, so here's the thing. I have a hard time seeing him not being a Laker or a Cavs. So if you're going to say title, Chase, or... It or a Cavs. So if you're going to say title chaser... It's the Cavs. ...it's got to wrap with Cleveland 3.0.

You're right. That should have been my fifth option, Cleveland 3.0 and title chaser. That's like the hybrid model. Because I don't think any... So here's the thing. In this world where we're in right now, I think on one hand,

I think these players get so much crap for the quality of their titles. I know they're just trying to get under Durant's skin because he can have his skin gotten under. He's made it clear that you can get

to him. I don't understand why he does that. But the people who get on Durant for quote-unquote not having a legit title is so annoying to me. And it's now gotten worse

because the Warriors won one without him with mostly the same core. And I just think that if LeBron goes in signs with Memphis to support John Morant in three years, I just think that that is a look that he's not going to want. So Cleveland has four dudes in their early to mid-20s who are pretty good. I don't think they're a title team right now.

But I could see them when Evan Mobley is in his fourth or fifth year. Those guys are now like 27, 28, 29, instead of 22, 23, 24. And LeBron could come in and play a role. I could see that. Um, by the way,

like I could say next year, the Cavs are in horrible need of a three. And, um, you know, well, they need, but they need a three that can defend too which is at this point in his career

but like next year you could see him in that kind of whatever role Kevin Love is in this year like a

fancy version of that that he could be like their backup point guard and he could also play the four and he's like a Swiss Army knife all over the place

I think Cleveland's very realistic and I'm higher on them than you are. I think Mobley's special. Oh, I think he is too, but I don't know what Mobley's going to be. It could be next year for him though. You said year four, year five.

Next year might be when he starts to become an impact guy, especially defensively. So yeah, I'm sure. I guarantee LeBron has been watching that and the Mitchell trade. He was, you know, same thing like when you remember 2014 when Cleveland won the lottery. Or 2013 when Cleveland won the lottery and it was kind of the first time we're like, uh-oh. Well, first off, LeBron was like complimenting the Cavs during that run.

Yeah, there were little breadcrumbs being sprinkled. He was praising Dion Waiters, who he got rid of in about 15 minutes. But he was like, yeah, they got something going. And I remember the night the Cavs won that last lottery, the lottery that got them the Wiggins pick.

Yeah, 2014. Yeah. It was Heat Pacers Eastern Conference Finals and I remember being in the Heat locker room after the game and hearing LeBron talk about the Cavs winning the lottery

you know not like in a sinister way but like noting it I think I got in trouble on TV that night because I said something like LeBron was off that game and I was like I think I got in trouble on TV that night because I said something like LeBron was off that game. And I was like, I think LeBron was thrown that the Cavs won the lottery.

People are like, fuck you. Get on that. But it was like, yeah. So I think I'm with you on the Cleveland thing and we don't need to explain the DNA. There's a third team though.

Okay. Something I've noticed for the last couple of years. And you were a student. No, you're a student of this stuff. We went from, he did not seemingly like Steph Curry, and there was a real rivalry there. He was very dismissive of the Warriors, and I think felt like Steph was on his corner a lot of ways,

as this was supposed to be my league. Oh, where'd this new hot young star come from? They win the title in 15. Yeah. He gets revenge in 16, but there was a lot of something, This was supposed to be my league. Oh, where'd this new hot young star come from? They win the title in 15. Yeah. He gets revenge in 16. But there was a lot of something. And I remember going to that game in 2018, the legendary game LeBron played when it looked like he was going to fight Curry.

And there was like an anger with LeBron. You were there. I hadn't seen that level of like a real fuck you with him toward Curry. I was like, ah, these guys don't like each other. And I asked Curry about it that summer and he didn't really deny it. He's like, Hey, we both want the same thing.

But then in the last couple of years where you have LeBron starts taking Curry when he's the all-star captain last year was going a kind of out of his way to praise Curry and was doing tweets during the playoffs like, oh my God, this boy's red hot and stuff he never did. And I was like, hmm, wonder if he's greasing the skids just in case. Well, then there was Draymond Green's wedding this summer where they all posted that photo with the four. Like, hey, let's get the four

title club together like there's no way like that's LeBron like with a I mean he would not have done that five years ago I do not know yeah I do not think he does that no now so the reason I thought that

he was sort of making nice nice with Curry a couple years ago was because there was some. And if Joe Lacob was on this pod, he would laugh at me and go, what are you talking about? But there was some wonder about whether Curry would take that last contract with Golden State. Now, look, it ended up being 0.0 drama. The Warriors offered the full boat, you know, but he had injury issues. The Warriors were looking at, you know, a $400 million payroll. Nobody was sure they were going to do it.

But I thought that he was, you know, giving them the wink wink because he was like, hey, you know, if you don't take that contract, you can come down to the Lakers. Because that's what happened with Kyrie. When Kyrie was headed towards free agency and it was clear he wasn't going to stay in Boston, LeBron, all of a sudden, the two of them kind of mended that fence. And I think it was based on that, the concept of playing together again in LA. And then, look, it didn't work out. It didn't happen. But that's what I thought. But now that I've seen

LeBron, who is theoretically still competing with Steph for the West titles, I'm not... That photo was... If I had shown LeBron that photo in 2018, he would have thought he was

photoshopped. Right. Steph was in his way in a lot of ways. Yeah. And you know, there's also the Under Armour Nike thing. You know, Steph was, you know,

you're saying take his corner. Like Steph was like, you know, the kids started wearing Steph jerseys. Yeah. And there was like that brief moment where Under Armour was like a thing. And it was bigger than that though. Cause Steph took the kids,

which I think LeBron felt like he had the kids, and Kobe was basically passing the kids to him. And then all of a sudden, Steph showed up. And you have kids showing up 90 minutes before the game watching Steph warm up. By the way, that's the business aspect of it is why that, you know, if you're a warrior,

you get access to all those Silicon Valley dudes. Not that LeBron needs that. He could get that anyway. But part of what LeBron's doing is post-career stuff. I mean, we're doing super NBA gossip stuff here. But I was watching Lake up very closely this summer. And I think he was the only one on the warrior side who was genuinely interested in Durant. And Curry,, I'm sure is like, oh, you know, and he's Curry

stated publicly. Oh yeah, of course we're going to think about it. It's Kevin Durant. I think Lake up is seeing this whole dynasty piece that's sitting there for this team now where it's like, all right, if we get a couple more of these, we go down in history now. This is a totally different animal, which is why they kicked the tires on Durant. And which is why I think if it's something like they could add somebody like LeBron to all of their infrastructure,

add that a year from now, that ties into, I think, how he thinks of the team. And the key for me is if they keep Draymond and Wiggins, that will tell me they're just in for $400 million a year for the foreseeable future. This is just what we're doing. Well, here's what you got to give Joe Laker credit for. People get annoyed with him because he can be arrogant or cocky.

But look at his resume. Yeah. He has always thought big. He's like, me and my partners, and he's got a lot of partners, but we're going to build this arena. We're going to be the highest earning team.

I mean, with all due respect, they had a great fan base in Oakland, but that was a second tier NBA city. Yeah. Despite their market size and despite their support of their fans.

They had the best fan base, but one of the smallest populations, which is why they're drawing from San Francisco. But yeah, you're right. If he wanted to scale it up, he had to move. It was sad. The Warriors now are like, if I'm not

mistaken, the Warriors are nine digits ahead of the Lakers on revenue. Wow. Jesus. Now part of that is because they've had a long playoff run. But if I ever

told you that the Lakers would be nine digits behind the Warriors, you'd tell me you were crazy. I mean, to be honest with you, it's the Lakers who should have built their own arena. It's the Lakers that should be doing what Ballmer is doing, like what the Warriors did. But look, that's another topic for another day. No, but it's an important topic and I do wonder if it plays into

how LeBron thinks about all this stuff because I just don't think the Lakers have shown any vision here for you know

12-13 years now well not compared to Golden State and not compared to any top level team and the Clippers listen

if LeBron they weren't people weren't going there for meetings by the mid-2010s and if LeBron, people weren't going there for meetings by the mid- 2010s, and if LeBron just didn't want to live here, what do they look? They have basically a young

nucleus like every other team, and we're watching. They probably let Lonzo go and Brandon Ingram, and maybe they get one kind of near-the-end free agent, but I think LeBron really saved their ass in a lot of ways just because he wanted to come there. Then Davis comes and they have the one title,

but I don't know. I don't trust him. Well, yeah, LeBron wanted to come there without assurances that anybody else would be there with him. Like I said, it was a vote in the city of Los Angeles

on the Laker brand. And he was right. A four-year vote. Yeah, and he made a real commitment to them, which, you know. Yeah. Well, that's one thing that, I mean, look, the city

of Cleveland, LeBron owes the city of Cleveland nothing. The city of Cleveland owes LeBron everything, from a sports perspective. Yeah. But he kept the Cavs on the shortest leash, and then when they wanted to trade for Paul George, you know,

the Pacers were willing to do it, but they wanted the pick to be unprotected because they knew what other people knew, which was that, or suspected, which was that LeBron might walk, was very likely going to walk. And they want, it's the same reason why

people want the Lakers 2027 unprotected first now, because they're like, well, LeBron and AD could be gone or aged out. And the only way the Cavs were going to give the pick unprotected was if LeBron extended and LeBron was not prepared to extend. And so the deal died. They had several different bites at that apple.

It didn't work and you know that pick the day that the pacers were trying to get was the pick to turn into darius garland so it's a darn good thing that the calves didn't give it i mean you know maybe if they had lebron and paul george it would have been different and it wouldn't have turned out that way but that was what the pacers were was love in that trade love was in that trade, right? There was a version of it. There's two versions of it. But there was one point where Love was going to be in Denver.

That's where he was going to end up. He wasn't going to end up in Indiana. And that was the one that almost got done. But LeBron wouldn't commit to the extension. And Dan Gilbert wouldn't agree to trade an unprotected pick and the Pacers wouldn't do without an unprotected pick and within a year LeBron was gone and Paul George asked for a trade so but one other team that I'll

bring up I did mention earlier Dallas yeah I thought that was an interesting interesting one for you he does have an affinity for Luka that's not exactly a hot take you know he tried to get Luka. LeBron doesn't have people who wear his brand. He's the only one.

I mean, officially. There's a lot of guys who wear his shoe. When Luka signed with Nike, he wanted Luka to be like a LeBron guy. He wanted Luka to be in the brand. And kind of like Jordan has all these guys. And it didn't go that way. Luka ended be in the brand. And kind of like Jordan has all these guys. And it didn't go that way. Luka ended up going with Jordan. But I think there's...

Take something from that. He does have his long ties to the Cowboys. No state tax. Well, and then we also have... I'm just going to keep saying this until I'm blue in the face, but we know he's going to be involved with the Vegas expansion team

whenever they get that done. I don't think they have the rule in place that you can't play if you're a part owner of the team, but we've seen the league get around this in all these different ways. I don't think expansion will happen until after the, probably the year after the meteorites deal, but it's happening. It's going to happen. If you look at the league right now, the talent says there's room for expansion.

Yes. But the economics don't really, because there's still teams that are taking a lot of revenue sharing money. There are not 30 healthy markets. And so the other thing is, and I had an owner explain this to me, and this is not a financial podcast, and I don't have an MBA. I don't work for Goldman Sachs. But the MBA owners have been able to borrow money pretty effectively at a pretty favorable rate. And so when they've needed access to financing, they've been able to get it. And so to them, even if they get...

The Phoenix Suns are going to, from what I can tell from talking to folks, are going to blow people's doors off for what they sell for. I said that last week on the pod. I predicted 4-4. What pod. I predicted 4-4. What did you say? 4-4. I am not going to dispute that.

Yeah. It's going to be over 4 million or 4 billion. So when I first came out, I said, I thought it would be, I thought it would be three. And I have been educated that I, I mean, there are people who are like, oh, you know, they may go for over two. And I was like, you're not going to... Over two, they're not even going to return your phone call. No, it's 4-5 range.

I did 4-4 to be safe, but I think it's between 4-4 and 4-7. I'm not disputing that with you. So if that's the going rate for the Phoenix Suns, the price for expansion, which this makes the league very nervous. They get upset when you talk about expansion. But obviously, there's a huge thing about expansion, which is that you don't have to share the money with the players. It's not referred to as basketball-related income. So if you get $4 billion from two expansion teams, let me just do a little math. No, let's say four and five.

Let's go crazy. Let's say $9 billion for the two teams and they cut it up $300 million a team and they don't have to share that with the players. Right. Guess who's voting yes? A lot of the teams. But so here's the thing though,

like, yeah, but they're diluting their shares of the league. Not if, I mean, they are, but not if they put stuff in where you don't get the stuff until five years

you get to participate in the media. Like there's ways to do it to make it favorable. So I think like a year or 18 months ago when money was really cheap, when these guys were able to borrow, now borrowing isn't as cheap. Yeah. And we're about to see, I think, and you think, that we're about to see another big burst in franchise values. We saw the big burst with the Clippers, but then we haven't really... I mean, obviously, franchises

are still going for very high and these hedge funds are buying in for good numbers, but we haven't seen the big jump. Well, we haven't seen one of the major teams hasn't been for sale. I said on Thursday's pod, there's eight teams

that are just different than the other 22. And Phoenix is one of the eight. And plus you get all the people that they can live in LA and they can fly an hour and they're at the game. That's right. You can fly back and forth. So you're getting all this California money. That's a whole different animal.

Yeah. The really rich guys did not want to buy the Timberwolves. No. They just didn't want to buy them. They offered more than the 1.5 though. um hold on we got to take a break and then i have a couple more things for you quick and then we'll go when you ride transit please be safe yeah be safe because what you do others will do too others will do it too so don't take shortcuts across tracks don't do that in fact just don't walk on tracks at all.

Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up.

Give what up? Really? Really, really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. I had a couple LeBron wildcards for you. Okay. We cover it.

We hit just about everything I wanted to hit, except... Are we sure Anthony Davis wouldn't be one of the moves if LeBron knows he's going to be here this year and next? How close is the AD-LeBron combination? Do you feel like that's like Tubbs and Crockett, that that's Batman and Robin, that those guys are just tied? Or if they got a really good offer for Davis

that allowed them to rebuild a little bit, get some stuff, open things up, and maybe potentially make themselves a better team for somebody who's had just an incredible amount of trouble staying on the court that they wouldn't think about that. So here's the thing. We've just been talking about how much talent there is. We're going to get to mid-season and we're going to have a game of musical chairs. Yes.

We're going to have teams that are like, wait a minute. We're near the tax or maybe we're looking at being in the tax and my stars are older and look at these stud because this draft class is exciting. And we're in 12th place or we're in ninth place. And even if we do great, we're not even getting out of the play in. And so the league is top heavy right now. And that's why like make fun of the thunder all you want.

Like the thunder are doing exactly what they should be doing because they can't compete in that level. And like, this is like the jazz. I keep laughing out loud every time Danny Ainge or Justin Zanuck, two people I respect, are acting like, Oh, we're not tanking. Oh my gosh.

I mean, we're going to still try to compete. No, you should be losing as much as you possibly can. Every win should be disappointing. Danny used to agonize when Brad Stevens would pull these wins out during his two-year tanking session. That never happened because Brad Stevens was too good. He fought it off. I've been a little connected to the Jazz for the last few months. Almost nothing that the Jazz has said publicly for four or five months

has actually been true. We're not going to trade. Go bear. No, we're going to build around Donovan. The Mitchell thing was the best. Yeah, no,

no. Mitchell's here. It's like, no, he's not. We're going to build it out here. Uh, we don't have to trade Bogdanovich before camp.

That's not important. Like, and I just saw, you know, media day, they're like, you know, we've got good veterans.

Like, you know, we're going to try to win these Day. They're like, we've got good veterans. We're going to try to win these games. Don't judge their words. Judge their actions. My point is, what if we get to January and the Lakers are sitting there in 10th or 11th place? What if LeBron misses 20 games with a pulled hamstring and the Lakers are 20 and 35? Here's the thing. What if this Westbrook

situation isn't actually a disaster? What if Westbrook actually accepts a lesser role, hits some corner threes, and they don't have to send him home? He lost me in the quarter threes, but go ahead.

Okay. Let's just say that it doesn't go terribly. Yeah. But they're still in like 11th place. Like that's possible. Like this is what I'm saying. How about this? Who do you like more than them or less than them out of Golden State, Clippers, Memphis,

Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, Minnesota, New Orleans. I don't think they have a better roster than any of those eight teams. I don't. Just think, they finished 11th last year. Okay? Now think of the teams that finished in front of them. Who do we know for sure they're passing? Okay, we know for

sure they're passing Utah. Utah's coming backwards. But on the flip side, you have New Orleans jumping up, although I guess New Orleans was ahead of them already. You could argue Sacramento improved more than they did. I'm just looking at it. I thought the Schroeder thing was hilarious

because Schroeder last year, the Celtics tried to trade for three weeks before the deadline, as you know. They're trying to give away to everybody. And then at the last second, the Rockets were like, hey, we kind of want to get off this Tice contract. We'll take Schroeder if, you know, and if you, and the South's right, great. And they dumped Schroeder, right? No playoff team wanted him. And then the Lakers get him three weeks ago. And everybody's like Schroeder, great deal, savvy minimum. And it's like, what are you guys talking about? No playoff team wanted

him six months ago. This was not savvy. Lonnie Walker was the worst mid-level exception guy anyone signed in this whole league. They did not make themselves better. Really, the way they're going to get better is if Davis is good. They don't have any shooting. This is what, you know...

Or perimeter defense. They're missing the two things that helped them win the title three years ago and they still didn't address it. I know. That's another topic conversation. The point that you're making about Danth Davis is like, what if... They're missing the two things that helped them win the title three years ago, and they still didn't address it. I know. That's another topic of conversation. The point that you're making about Danth Davis is like, what if...

It's one thing that the Lakers are a disaster, but what if they're not a disaster, but they're still not good enough? Which I think... I just don't think they're good enough. I mean, as good as LeBron and AD are, they could have good seasons. Lonnie Walker could be better than we think. Russell Westbrook could not have to be sent home in November. And they could still be in 10th place.

This is what I keep saying. I was in Cleveland two weeks ago when Donovan Mitchell arrived. I was talking to the Cavs folks. I was like, guys, this team could be awesome and you could finish 6th. Because that's the nature of it.

So like somebody at mid season, maybe two teams. And I'm, I'm looking at the Chicago bulls and Lonzo ball gave an interview today, Tuesday. It was an extraordinarily depressing interview about the state of his knee. Yeah. It sounds brutal that he can't go upstairs without pain,

that he can't run. Like, they don't, the doctors have to go in there and see what's wrong. Like, if you're a Bulls fan, like, you've got to be vomiting

in the trash can hearing that. And you're looking at the East, you're looking at Atlanta trading for all-stars and the Cavs trading for all-stars. Those are teams

that were behind you that just went past you. So what happens to the Bulls at mid-season? What happens to the Lakers maybe at mid-season? So I'm going to write that down in my imaginary notebook, which you just brought up. Now, the Lakers are thinking the exact opposite. Thanks for not mentioning the Celtics and what happens to them in the midseason. I appreciate that.

Why would the Celtics be that way? I think the Celtics are awesome. Okay, great. It's been not an easy week. I agree. And maybe they won't be as good as they were last year, but they're like... No, they'll still be good. Yeah. They'll still be defensively, but yeah, it hasn't

been an awesome offseason. Well, it was be good. Yeah. They'll still be defensively. But yeah, it hasn't been an awesome offseason. Well, it was a good offseason. Well, Gallup got hurt. Like three weeks ago, Tim Bontemps from our staff, he surveyed a couple dozen NBA executives. They said, who had the best offseason? Celtics finished first. First.

Three weeks ago. The NBA moves fast. The Knicks are another team that I feel like could godfather for Davis. And I do feel like that was a piece of not ultimately going too far with Mitchell because I just feel like the way, I said this before, but the way the league works now, there's going to be another Mitchell.

There's going to be, you're just sitting in that barstool waiting for the opposite sex to come in. And if you didn't click with the one, well, guess what? Two hours later, somebody else is going to be sitting in the stool next to you. And you just got to be ready. That's right. And here's the other thing, though. I think right now the Lakers think that they're going to take advantage of that.

They think we're going to get to December or January and we're going to have this Westbrook contract and we're going to have these draft picks. And maybe that's what will happen. So the Bulls are like, oh my God, we're a fringe playoff team. What are we doing? Maybe we just cash in our DeRozan and some other stuff, and we'll take that Westbrook, we'll grab some picks, we can use those picks to trade this summer.

Ultimately, Westbrook is in a very valuable expiring contract. It's a huge number. You don't come across those types of expiring contracts. Right today, in September, I'm looking at the Bulls after seeing this Lonzo interview going, boy, I don't know what's going to happen with them. But three weeks from now, it could be another team.

And let's be honest, it could be Brooklyn. I mean, the odds of the Brooklyn thing going awesome. Well, to me, if you're going to create a scenario for why the Lakers shouldn't do anything right now, it's just waiting for Kyrie. Yeah. Well, waiting for Kyrie. Yeah. Well, waiting for Kyrie either in the trade deadline

or as I guess as a free agent. But, you know, I'm on the record as I think Kyrie has now become the most overvalued star we have. He hasn't had playoff success for five years. It's hard to talk to a Boston guy

about Kyrie and... He got swept last year in the playoffs and did not play well and has not played well in the playoffs in five years. At some point, half a decade of lack of playoff success, I think. No, it's true. And he's in his 30s now

and he's a small guard and I think there's some really obvious red flags. Yes. I mean, the Nets not signing Kyrie this summer was partially about his attitude, but it wasn't 100% about his attitude. And there was a reason why no teams were falling all over themselves to clear space to try to go get him when he could have been a free agent. I mean, Kyrie said it himself at media day. I had very few options. Yeah, he said he probably cost himself four years, $100 million. I think that

seemed low. I had the last thing on my list was yeah, what a Lakers rebuild would look like if they traded Davis trade deadline and then LeBron in the offseason. And they just like, all right, we got our title.

We're going to cash in these two chips. We had input with LeBron on where he wanted to go. And could they be back to the post-Kobe Lakers next year? I wouldn't rule that out, right? The only thing is Jeannie Buss has this belief, and I think it's a smart one. Yeah. And it's the reason why they gave kobe that last contract is that you take care of your star players even if that means you have to swallow a year or two um because you have to maintain and that's one

thing about genie bus like no matter what you to say, she has done a very good job of restoring the brand. Yeah. She was a part of that. And so, I would think that they would be very careful about that. Well, unless LeBron was like, trade me to a contender.

Like, as I mentioned before, four rings. I was looking at like finals records and stuff with him. You know, like Jordan was 30 and seven, just in finals games. Crazy. Russell was 45 and 25.

Duncan was 23 and 11. Kobe was 23 and 14. And LeBron's 22 and 33. Curry was 21 and 13. Shaq, 17 and 13. Havlicek's 31 and 16. West was 22 and 33. Elgin, 16 and 28. Magic was 24-33. Elgin's 16-28.

Magic was 24-26. So out of the greatest players, only four of them are below 500 in the finals. And I still think he's going to... I still think he wants one more. And I think four is... Plus, what if Curry passes him and gets to five and he's got four? All this stuff's

going to be leveraged against him when we're doing the greatest of all time arguments. And I do think he cares got four. All this stuff's going to be leveraged against him when we're doing the greatest of all time arguments. And I do think he cares about it. This is the thing about LeBron. I wrote a piece about this last year. And it's buried in nuance. The nuance is not, it doesn't sell in our society.

But one of the things that makes LeBron great is his ability to handle the losses. Yep. It's his ability to handle the losses. Yep. It's his ability to bounce back. It's his ability to absolutely look at the situation and say, like, in 2018, he's sitting there with the Cavs team that is gutted, and they've just lost eight out of nine finals games to the Warriors. He's in trouble.

He maneuvers, and two years later, he's holding the trophy. Right. Now, like, and I know that we're in this world where, what is the number of rings? I have to have the number. If I don't have the number, we're not going to have a conversation. Like, that accomplishment, you know, and the same thing like in Cleveland, he is facing an uphill battle against the Warriors to get even one out of there. He pulled one out. out and they'll start, they'll bring up the record. And it's like, but you don't understand those finals losses and how he dealt with them is part of his greatness. I remember hearing Gary

Player talk about Jack Nicklaus once. And Gary Player was said that Jack Nicklaus was the game's greatest loser. And I kind of thought it was him saying, don't forget that I beat him quite a few times, everybody. But Jack Nicklaus had 17, he had 18 majors and 17 runner-ups. And the point that the player was making was that Jack had a lot of near misses. He had a lot of near misses. And yet he never let it get him down.

He just kept coming back and coming back. LeBron has never let the near misses get him down, and people use it against him. But how many in those 33 finals games was it because he didn't give a great effort? There were a couple, specifically in the Dallas series, for sure. 11 and, yeah, 2011 is the Dallas series, for sure. But how many of those series? Yeah, 2011 is the tough one. 07 overmatch, you almost throw out those four games.

And then 2018, same thing. I'm not sure what else. They were getting swept no matter what happened in that series. Right. So, like, I mean, there was at least two finals. You know, the 2018 finals, I think he averaged a triple double. He was amazing. I mean, so, like, you know triple-double. He's amazing. You're right.

People are going to use that against him. I'm sure it does dog him. He may be like, man, I would really like to get that fifth, whether it's in LA, whether it's in Cleveland, whether maybe it is, can I go up to Golden State? But I just don't think that people appreciate the nuance. Like one of the things that we took out of the last dance was that,

you know, Jordan laying on that couch in that hotel room saying, I can't do it anymore. I'm done. LeBron never was done. He kept coming back and coming back and coming back. And that longevity is his claim, whatever. But I was there after seasons when LeBron had pushed his body to the absolute limit and his team didn't have enough. And the next fall, he was fresh as a daisy in incredible shape and had shoved his team to get better. I saw it over and over and over.

He doesn't get credit for that. It's used against him, but that is a reality. That's why it is, in my view, a gear change that he would not continue to do that with the Lakers. Maybe Rob Palenka in his Media Day interview implied that there was a understanding that if he extended that they would trade those picks. And maybe that is what happened.

And maybe LeBron will end up being right about this. But this is sort of the first time where he hasn't just been full gas in more than a decade. That was a good way to bring it full circle. I agree with you. I think they have an agreement they're going to make a trade with those picks in the Westbrook contract. And I think they're going to try to go all in. The question for me is what happens if it doesn't work? And you mentioned- Should they? Should they? They're going to try to go all in, but should they? Yeah. And is there the right player? But you mentioned the resilience that he has, especially after losses. I thought that was a great point. The other thing he's shown that he doesn't get credit for or even really noticed, I remember writing about it in 2014

when he jumped to Cleveland and everybody's like, oh, he's coming home unfinished. And I was like, that's the best basketball decision. That dude's always going to make what the best basketball decision is. He's done that his whole career. He knew in 2010, Cleveland, it wasn't going to happen there. And he made a basketball decision. He did it again in 2014. 2018, he throws away the next, the 19 year, right? He knows the Cleveland thing's going to an end. He knows he wants to be in LA and he also knows that they will be able to put together something. They have all these. So that was also in a weird way, a basketball decision. I think it'll be a basketball decision. I don't think, I don't see him just fading into like being happy, like with how Kobe spent the last two seasons, where it's just like, come see Kobe. It's my two year farewell tour.

I don't see that. I think he's driven by the titles. I think it's going to bother him if he has one less than Kobe and if Curry gets one more than him and that he has two less than Jordan. I do think he cares. How much do you think the Laker fans are going to be interested in the chase for Kareem's record? Well, that brings the fundamental question of do they consider LeBron a full-fledged tier one Laker or is he a guy who's playing on the Lakers? Because I've heard from Laker fans, I've heard different answers

to that question. If Kobe was still alive, I think it would be different. But now that Kobe is basically the North Star that LeBron can never live up to, I'll be interested to see, especially if the Lakers are not having a great year.

Like if they're in, if they're in ninth place and haven't done a trade and it's like February 3rd or even, you know, and he's like going for the record, you know, I think the Lakers are going to be thinking about this season. You know,

they're going to be like, right. Well, no, going to be like, right. Well, no, like when, like when he passed Kobe, he got like a, yeah,

it felt like he was barely on that team at that point. Yeah. I listen, everything hinges on Davis because Davis, if he's right, is still one of the best 12 players in the league. And if he comes out of the gate hot, LeBron, they can hang around, be above hot 500,

heading toward that Westbrook trade zone. You know there'll be five unhappy teams, and that'll be the roadmap. And it's conceivable. I would bet against the Lakers. I think they're a playing team. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the Davis LeBron combo

coming out of the gate was really good and we were like whoa look at these guys haven't seen this in a while I could see that scenario I know I've been highly critical of the way they've put this team together and I've just flat out said I don't believe that they believe this is going to work

the Westbrook thing is tough. But they do have two Hall of Famers. I just think the league is too tough. I just think there's no gifts in the Western Conference. It's the hardest.

The hardest it's been. The Lakers for a long time, used to enjoy a softer early schedule because the TV networks wanted all their tough games after the Super Bowl. So their back half of their schedule always had the tough games.

The Lakers, and they would start the season and they would play like, because they had to save their East coast trips for the back half. The Lakers would play like 12 of their first 17 games in LA. Like they'd play the Clippers is one of their early road games or whatever. That's not. And that was the case last year. That's not the case anymore. Their schedule early on is not as soft because their schedule isn't as TV,

and they're on TV still a ton, but their schedule isn't as TV based. So, they're not even going to have the same soft,

you know, entry that they would have had in other years, including last year. A lot of fascinating stuff. By the way, just for the record, those numbers again,

he's, Kareem's record is 38,387 points. LeBron should pass that probably at about the 60-70% point of the season, depending on the injuries. Yeah, like late January, early February, depending on a lot of factors.

If he also stays healthy the whole year, most of it, he could pass Nash and be fourth in assists for all time. 10,335. His points per game is 27.13. There's only six guys over 27. MJ,

Wilt, Elgin, KD, LeBron, and West. And then he's got all these playoff numbers that the sheer stats with him I think will be one of the things. He's already the all-time scoring leader because last year,

he passed the combined. Yeah, the combined thing. No one has ever scored more baskets and more points in the NBA than LeBron. I know that's not what the people, the record isn't, that's not what it recognized, but it's not nothing.

He's going to have all of them. And then it's like, who passes him because Durant lost multiple years there. He was probably our one bet to at least challenge it. I don't think he's going to play enough. And then now you're moving into like Luka land and Luka's 23, who knows?

Kareem held the record, has held the record. What, he retired 87? He broke it in the mid 80s. It was like 84, 85, he broke it. So he's had it ever since. He's had the record for 35-ish years? No, like 38, 39. Okay.

Yeah. And he broke Wilt's record. How long did Wilt have the record? Wilt had it for... He retired in 74, so 10 years. Okay. Yeah. So in the last almost 50 years, 50 plus years,

there's been two guys who've held the scoring record. So the answer is it could be the person who breaks it. We don't know yet. He couldn't be born yet. Two of the most astoundingly durable, not just basketball players but athletes we've ever had

I think Kobe would have broken it if he doesn't blow out his Achilles and go down the spiral of the last four or five years he had

because he was focused on it he wanted it I think he had planned it out and he was going to break it and then his body just didn't hold up

LeBron's body has held up yeah LeBron isn't only one of the greatest players of all time. He's had one of the greatest careers like the longevity. It's him and Kareem and that's it. We didn't talk about the Celtics only because it's

in HR legal land and there's nothing to talk about. We're going to eventually find out what happens. As of now, it's a lot of rumors and I'm the same. People keep asking me, what happened? What's going on? It's like, this is in a situation

where there's five or six people who work for the team who know what's going on and legal people in HR and a dope aside, and that's it. And nothing's going to come out until this whole process. And nothing might ever come out.

I covered the Celtics in the second, third, and fourth rounds last year. Yeah. I was there a lot. I would see you at some of the games with your dad. I love the fact that you would

walk to the games. Oh, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, thank you. I've been to... I haven't been to as many playoff games in Boston as you, but I've been to a lot.

I'm going to say two things about the Celtics before you go. Yeah. One, Ime've been to a lot. I'm going to say two things about the Celtics before you go. One, Imei was great for them. He made a really big difference. He was huge. That is a genuine loss.

Two, they're still awesome. I mean, I think Tatum, Tatum has MVP potential. It, it, I don't know if I'm ready to say you can win it this year,

but like, you know, winning the MVP, first off, there's going to be a new MVP this year because Jokic is going to have to average like 40 and 20 and they're going to have to win 60 games. Don't rule it out. 40, 20 is in play with them.

Uh, so number one, that's, there's going to have to win 60 games. Don't rule it out. 40-20 is in play with them. So number one, there's going to probably be a new MVP. The standard for getting the third is just ludicrous. And now there's a narrative position for Tatum if he's great. Especially with a lot of the turmoil. Robert Williams,

now it's like he's three months. I feel like we're not going to see him before the all-star break type thing. We'd be super careful with him. Well, they said eight to 12 weeks until basketball activities. They didn't say eight to 12 weeks back on the starting lineup. Yeah, and a lot of people misinterpreted that too. And then they have Al Horford, who's... I mentioned all the old people from all those different drafts. Horford

was in the 07 draft. He played in college a couple years, but what he gave them last year to me is inconceivable that he's going to do that again after playing 100 games or whatever last year. We might get 90% of it. We might get 85% of it, but we're not getting what he got

last year. When was the last time you saw a defensive big man change a playoff game like Robert Williams does? He was unbelievable. So they just need that. They know they need that back for the spring. They're going to be super careful with him in all these different ways. They need somebody for that gallows spot.

And then they need to keep Brogdon healthy because that's a piece they just didn't have last year. This playmaking guard that can carry an offense for six minutes. They were dying for that. They can still make a trade. They have another first. They can trade. They have some pieces like Derek White.

They could trade. Now they have Brogdon, but they're awesome. I was wondering. They're really good. I was wondering, like if Danny was there, I'd be like, oh, they're definitely trading I was wondering... They're really good. I was wondering, like, if Danny was there, I'd be like, oh, they're definitely

trading Gallinari. Like, lock that one down. They'll use his contract. But I don't think this team, this organization, wouldn't. But Jay Crowder floating around

made me wonder if they would do a little Gallinari, Crowder, throw in Peyton Pritchard. That's a problem, by the way, with the Jay Crowder trade. I was just

in Phoenix. The Phoenix can't do that type of trade. Phoenix has to trade Jay Crowder for a guy that's as good as Jay Crowder, which I don't know if Jay Crowder understood that when he asked for a trade or when he didn't. We don't know if Kevin Durant understood that. We're glad you want to be traded, but you're still Kevin Durant. that. We're glad you want to be traded, but you're still Kevin Durant. We need to get an awesome trade back for you. At least yesterday, he finally admitted that in the media day.

Yes. He accepted their answer. Yeah. Is what he said, which it was a good answer. Yeah. He was very well media... Good media training with Durant

for that media day. I thought he was good. Yes. I actually... By the way, when Durant said that he thought that the N he was good. Yes. I actually, by the way, when Durant said that he thought that the Nets had a good offseason, I agreed with him. I do think they had a good offseason.

I mean, we got to see, you know, TJ Warren still hasn't been cleared to play, but like, the Royce O'Neal trade was an excellent trade. Like, in theory,

Ben Simmons, like, I see that working. I mean, Ben Simmons is really good. I mean, I'm not, like, wagering my house on it, but, like, what if it works? I mean, if you're going to say to me, well, it could be a total disaster, I'd be like, yes, it could. But if we're going to acknowledge it could be a total disaster, we have to also acknowledge what if it works. I think the line between what if it works and it could be a disaster is in place for like seven teams this year.

I think it's one of the fascinating things about this season. Like Denver, Jamal Murray is still like, I'm getting used to the pace. I'm like, how are you not ready yet? You've been hurt for 20 months, but it doesn't seem like he's ready yet. And I had just penciled him in as, oh, they got Jamal Murray back. Porter's going to play. Now I don't know. I don't know what to think. There's a lot of teams like that. We're just like, I don't know what to ready yet. And I had just penciled him in as, oh, they got Jamal Murray back. Porter's going to play. Now I don't know. I don't know what to think. There's a lot of teams like that where it's just like, I don't know what to think yet.

We were deploying our personnel to media days and we couldn't... There was so much stuff going on. We couldn't get to Philly. Right. To find Skinny Harden, who's like, yeah, I actually am in the best shape I've been in

in five years. It's like, you are? We like Philly. Again, there's other years where Philly would be where like 30 people would be in the preseason. I mean, James Harden gave up a bunch of money to undo the problems that

happened from the trade from Houston. And then he is now all of a sudden dedicated. And there's an investigation about that. And we couldn't get there. We couldn't. We were like, listen, it's like six on the list. We got all these other fires we got to go to. That's hilarious.

Yeah. So, I mean, this season... By the way, kudos to James for getting in shape this year, even though he's an athlete that makes like $40 million a year. I'm psyched that he's so committed to physical fitness. I don't understand since you've got two zeros and you've got two commas in your net worth and a whole lot of zeros. Thank you.

I don't understand the gifting of large sums of actual cash to friends. Like, you remember Clooney? Yeah. Like, gave his buddies like a million dollars in cash. I kind of got that

because those guys didn't have money. Yeah. But, there was that video where James Harden, for his birthday, little baby. Yeah.

Little baby. Gave him $250,000 cash. And it wasn't like, video where James Harden for his birthday, little baby, little baby, gave him $250,000 cash. And it wasn't like, well, I forgot to get him everything. I'll just give him this money. He had this very elaborate box and he had all these quarters that were in there. It's like, I'm giving you a quarter.

And I know, I think Harden at one point gave him $100,000. Listen, you're talking to the wrong guy in this world. I don't understand that. I don't understand this world either. It is a hard one to figure out. Yeah. It's like, here's a box.

Oh, it's some quarters. No, it's actually $250,000. He gave him, here's, happy birthday. Like, I know rich guys give each other Bentleys. I saw Michael Rubin gave Bob Kraft a $400,000 Bentley, and it was absolutely gorgeous. That I get. That I'm sure you and House give each other, that kind of stuff. Yeah.

But I don't get actual cash. Listen, if you ever leave ESPN, I'm happy to hire you for a net wealth podcast where you just tackle these questions each week, trying to figure out friends and gifts, season one. Before everything in the league exploded in the last two weeks, I was supposed to go to Philly for media day. And I was going to ask James. I don't know when I'll get a chance to ask him. I was going to ask him, tell me about getting cash for present. Not from your aunt in the little envelope, $250,000 cash. I mean, I can't relate. Well, you know this. I don't think the listeners are fully aware of what's going to happen in a

couple of years from now when the max contracts are like $75 million a year. Oh my God. And guys are signing $420 million five-year contracts because that's the world we're going to be moving into in the mid-2020s. What happens then with some of these gifts? And what happens when a guy doesn't want to play for two months and it's like, but wait, you make $77 million a year. You don't want to play? That's the And it's like, but wait, you make $77 million a year. You don't want to play? That's the thing. Jay Crowder... In what world can Jay Crowder say, I'm holding out a camp? Right. He can't. In this world. In this world. I mean, there was a contract that was signed. Oh, the Cavs signed Dean Wade to a contract extension. He got three years and 18 million. And I saw some people going, boy, $6 million a year for Dean Wade.

I go, guys, in five years, $6 million would be the veteran minimum. Yeah. That's like a rounding error. Well, that was with the McCollum contract, right? Where he gets this two-year extension. It's like, that's interesting. Why would they extend it? And then it's like, why wouldn't CJ bet on himself? And you can kind of see the both sides. Like New Orleans is like, we don't know where these salaries are going. We're happy to lock this down for two more years. And CJ's like, I am a shooting guard. I might not be healthy in two years. I'm happy to lock that down too. But that's the new math. And that's why this Jalen Brown thing for the Celtics makes me so nervous where he might be a $70 million player in three years. When you talk to executives, they are more and more not talking about the actual number that they're paying.

They're talking about the percentage of cap. Interesting. Sign that guy to whatever. Oh, well, that's only 8% of the cap. That's not so bad um i mean bill the thing about it was is that the salary cap grew from like well just just this number between 1990 when was jordan's last year with the bulls 98 he made 33 million yeah between 1998 and like 2016 there was never a $30 million player.

And now we have what, 40? Maybe more. Even with inflation, there wasn't a $30 million player. And like in five years, there was 30. How do you go? I mean,

because 2016 is when the cap spike happened. And we're about to have another one. And we're about to have a franchise spike. So maybe LeBron is like, get one more Max. I don't think you're wrong. I'm sure he's looking at Tom Brady and he's looking at how the longevity has increased

and Nadal still in finals and stuff like that. And just like, hey man, maybe I have one more $300 million deal on me. Do you remember when Josh Childress signed in Greece? I sure do. And people were like, oh my God, this is going to change the NBA, that people are going to go to Europe. And I remember LeBron, this was like maybe 2008, maybe 2007, eight-ish when he did that. And I remember asking LeBron, I go, how much money would it take for you to go play in Greece? And he'd be like, you're telling me I could name any number. I go, come up with the highest number salary that you would play in Antarctica. And he was like, 50 million.

If you paid me... And I remember he was very demonstrative. If you could pay me $50 million a year, I would go play anywhere. And he was like, might as well have been a billion dollars. The concept of 50 million was like lunacy. I mean, as late as 2014,

he'd still never been the highest paid player on his team, the single highest paid player. He was tied with Chris Bosh. Right. Now he's signing contracts where he's going to make $60 million. I remember I did something when I was at ESPN about what would the players actually be worth? Because it was right around

that Cleveland Cavs. Maybe it was my last year when the Cleveland Cavaliers, their friend Forbes did that dumb franchise value thing every year. That's never accurate. But the Cavs were like, you know, a billion dollar team with LeBron. Then they didn't have them and they were down to like 400 million. And then they got LeBron again and they're at like 1.5 million. It was like basically, what is LeBron actually worth? If he can swing a franchise worth by just multiples, is he like 50 million?

And 50 million seemed crazy. I think you're looking at the wrong scale. You don't look at the franchise value. You look at the league revenue. So the last year league revenue was 9 billion. When LeBron was in his absolute prime, when they were getting 30 million viewers for finals games, the league revenue was maybe 6, 7 billion.

What was LeBron worth to the league out of that $7 billion league revenue that all the teams were participating in that? What was his annual worth out of that 7 billion? league revenue that we're all, you know, we're all the teams were participating in that. What was his annual worth out of that $7 billion? Can't even, like,

well, I would argue he's done pretty well for himself. So, in a weird way, the league figures out there's a mechanism

where with the endorsements and the business investments, all this stuff, they still get what they're worth. But what they don't get is with actual salary caps, where it's like LeBron's

worth $27 million on the caps, but he's worth a billion dollars to the league. He definitely like, I don't know if they, he definitely was worth nine figures to the league. No question. I think I said 75 when I did this a while ago. I mean, that's not

now that's laughably low. He's worth more than 75 now. Now that's going to be what Robert Williams signs for four years. It's like, whoa, 75 million a year for Robert Williams. Is that too high? I really wonder how the fans are going to react to this because the numbers are going to be more than Tom Cruise made for Top Gun Maverick

just for the 38th best player in the, in the league. And, and I don't think people are prepared for this. Anyway, wind horse, you do a great job. It's great to see you.

I was really happy for you this summer. It was good to catch up. Uh, I love when you come on and, uh, and hopefully we can do it again. Have a good season. Thank you too.

All right. My daughter's here for the first time in a while. She demanded to come on because she's going to be taking care of me someday when I'm old. I always exceed to her wishes. I will be the only one for the record. Yeah. Ben will be gone. It's one out of two and I'm the one. So we got to keep a strong relationship. Zoe is a senior in high school. She has her eye on next year when she's going to be away from us, going to college in the East Coast. She already knows where she's going. We've been talking a lot about social media,

about high school life. Let's talk about our social media conversation we had because I think it was an important dad-daughter moment for us. I think so too. I almost had a semi-intervention with you. It was pretty invasive and vulnerable. And it definitely needed to happen

because I was becoming irrecognizable. But I think that a lot of teenagers are dealing with this, especially post-pandemic and just like with the new wave of social media. And so it's an important thing to discuss. Yeah. Cause one of my favorite things about you and we've heard it, you've been on this podcast a lot, really since you were like, I don't know, 11, 11 years old. Um, I think one of the things with social media and Tik TOK, which really scares me the most, but it just sucks your

generation into your phone. And we were on a three-day soccer trip. We were in Oceanside and we weren't getting along. And I finally just blew up at you and got really mad and made you cry for the first time in a while. But I felt like it was justified. And part of it was because I was so frustrated. I felt like you were starting to veer the wrong way. And I really felt like social media was a big part of

it. And then when we talked about it, we talked about it at dinner. And then by the end of the weekend, it felt like the ship had been righted. So what happened? I just think that within this past year or so, I guess, post pandemic, when we were all pretty depressed, I can say confidently, I don't think any singular person was happy during that period of time. Especially the teens. Especially being a teenager because you're learning how to exist in the real world. And it's like one of the most crucial times in anyone's life, you can argue. And spending that inside is definitely not easy when the only outlet you have is social media and your phone. that's how you stay connected and I definitely fell into some bad habits with that where I would be in my room all day like

you can attest to this I would be in my room all day in the dark like I wouldn't really go outside I wasn't like taking care of myself I wouldn't say it was all day it was like three four hours you were playing soccer you were going out I was stuff, but compared to the way that I am now, obviously, it was a lot of indoor time for me. Yeah. And just because of that, I was kind of conditioned to being on my phone all the time. And when that happens, it's like there's only so many options to be on your phone and do. It's like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, or talking to your friends.

Yeah. do. It's like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, or talking to your friends. And as we know that it's a fact that Instagram is a pretty evil app. Especially for teenage girls. There's been all these studies that have come out about it. They profit off of sucking people in and making people unhappy. And unhappiness is also hand in hand with like an addiction to some things. You're like addicted to this thing that's making you unhappy. Yeah, we're not saying you weren't like ready to go to a mental institution,

but your mood was definitely changing in a way that was like, this is weird. Not the way that I usually am. I'm a very upbeat and happy person and I just wasn't like that. And you don't realize until you actually become aware when you spoke to me about this. And it was like, I was looking at my phone all day and we know that Instagram is a highlight

reel of everyone's lives. It's like, these are the best moments of my life. I'm going to put them out there. They could be edited. They could be filtered, whatever you want them to be. That's what you're presenting to the world. And as like a viewer who was not at my best 24 seven, looking at other people at their best or even better all the time it had an effect on me and I've never been someone luckily who has allowed stuff like that to take a toll on me I kind of just do my own thing and I like try to stay true to myself but I definitely allowed it to have too much power without even knowing. And all of a sudden I was like completely absorbed in this world and like being active on Instagram way too often, like posting things, trying to conform and

like do what everyone else was doing. Cause I thought that's what I had to do. Yeah. Well, another thing is you think it's like, everybody's having a better time than you are and everybody's has this, but really it's like these people capturing this one moment that seemed, but they're just, they're in the same boat you are. They're on their phone all the time and they're probably just as unhappy about different things. And living in LA where I've actually met influencers, weirdly enough, people who do this for a living, like this is their lives to post things and make their, the world look glamorous that they live in they're truly they're real people which you wouldn't expect them to be because of the stuff that they post

and the way that they act like they're perfection you but they are real people yeah and it's like it's just as weird when you're standing all together in a group and they're like take a picture of me with this thing on and then they'll post it later on and you're like it looks like this candid photo of like this moment that they were just having living their life. But in reality, they were like, take a picture of me right now.

Like it's all, it's all put together and done up. It's not anything natural. And it's like, you can't compare your real life to that. And there's so many circumstances, especially when you live in LA, like we do,

where it's like these fake, fake moments that you wouldn't ever expect to be fake. Yeah. The thing I was saying to you is, first of all, all that stuff I think is really damaging when you're, whoever you are, wherever you live, where you're looking at your phone and everybody seems to be having a better time than you are. Every photograph is filtered. It's the best possible version of whatever photo. So you're just looking at that all day and eventually you're going to start feeling bad about something about yourself, which I think is one danger. And then the other one with TikTok, you end up following the things you like. So like in your case, you're following all these different stuff. You love watching people make food.

I love it. And then you're like, I think about food all the time. And you know, you play sports and obviously you're in great shape, but you started to really focus on what you're eating. Yeah. And I mean, that's, that's just a fixation on whatever you're seeing online all the time. Cause it's like, I didn't realize that I was giving myself this consistent reminder of like watching what other people are eating or what they're making or whatever. And it like became this awareness that I didn't even know I had or why I had it. Yeah, it wasn't, you didn't have an eating disorder, but you were thinking about it. I was just too conscious. So I went on your TikTok and I'm like, look at this. Here's

somebody making donuts. Here's somebody making pizza. Here's somebody who figured out how to make a chickpea salad. And it's like, yeah, you're going to think about food if the only thing you're seeing on your feet are like food and people having the greatest time ever. I wonder why you're not feeling awesome. And it sucks. And like after, honestly, I felt like a transformed person after we talked about that. And I mean, we had two talks. Yeah, we talked that night and we tried to figure out, all right, how do we figure out

solutions for the next day. So what were your solutions? Tell the people the solutions. I put time regulations on all of those apps. I do sometimes turn off the time regulation because I'll find that like... What? No, no, no.

But hear me out because it does... It's a two-hour span that I put on for everything on my phone. So sometimes I'll need to text someone or do something and I'll have to turn it off for certain circumstances. But I mean, that's definitely helped. But more than that, it's just me being aware that before I was way too absorbed in this world where I was more so living for the social media content per se than actually living for what makes me happy. I was like a robot almost.

I was doing the same thing every single day, blah, blah, blah, taking pictures, posting, whatever. But it was just like I was living within my phone rather than in the real world. And that's a really easy thing to fall into when you're over summer and you're not seeing people every single day and it's a pretty routine type of thing. It can happen. But I think just having more

self-awareness about it and doing things for myself every day, like I will go on a walk every day and just listen to music or not even bring my phone and like just having moments with myself where there's no social media or device present where I can just like reset. Yeah, that was the thing we talked about is like, if you break away at least a little bit and you give yourself some me time where you're not just tied to the phone, but the problem is your generation, everything is emanating from that phone and you feel like if you might miss

something or you're disconnected or all this stuff's happened over there. But really like when you take a step back and you look at it, because I think for adults, there's certain things that are like that too. Like for people in media, they can go on Twitter all day and they'll just look at Twitter, look at links, look at comments. Bad comments that they're receiving. Bad comments, replies. And all of a sudden it's like, gee, I wonder why I'm not happy right now. It's like, well, you were just on Twitter for five hours. Yeah. And I can't imagine how it's easy to be an influencer or someone in the public eye at all. Not that it's a hard job to pursue because you're pretty

much just posting content all day, but like social media is so evil and having to be on it constantly, having that be your job is not mentally something that feels sustainable. Yeah. I do wonder, because there's all these stats coming out about how depression rates are up and all these different things. And I do wonder sometimes if like social media, which I do think has some benefits, but is it also going to be like how my generation thinks about smoking when we were growing up? three of them were like chain smokers none of them lasted very long right and now we look back oh that was crazy your great-grandfather smoked four packs yeah like you would think this was wrong and people knew it was wrong but they didn't and now looking back you didn't know yeah but and i do think it's the same circumstance obviously for different reasons and not your actual physical health but mental health is definitely affected by this. And like, this sounds so cheesy and like anyone could think of this, but like really going outside and like

taking a moment for yourself, it's so vital. Like if you're sitting inside all day and you're going to school all day or whatever, and you're on devices or on your phone, it's like you're bound to feel upset. Like your body naturally gains endorphins by moving around, by being outside, like by being with nature and at center with yourself. And it's hard to be at center with yourself when you're on your phone all the time. We should tell people you moved to Colorado. You don't live with us anymore. You just, you dropped out of school. You're just hiking trails. I figured it out. Getting super crunchy, eating granola no

it's good i was glad we've had i think people have heard we've had a good relationship really the whole time where and that this was the first time where i was i got mad at you in a while where i was like i don't understand what's going on with you yeah but then when we talked about it it made sense horrible thing because i really did like that's the thing I never thought I'd have to worry about with myself yeah but I mean it happens you righted the ship um all right so that ties into post-pandemic culture so and you had it I mean everybody like people are in college who missed two years or high school like you basically missed the last three months of ninth grade yeah you missed all of 10th grade and then 11th grade people easing back but there were masks for a bunch of times and then 12th grade so people are meeting online people are having relationships or they're

whatever it's weird because i joined my high school in the ninth grade all of 10th grade i didn't get to go to school 11th grade was when things really came back together and we got to you know be all together and rejoice whatever but it's like you're I was meeting these people for the first time that I go to school with really yeah and it's it's just weird like the pandemic really takes a toll on high school experience obviously for a majority of reasons. But like friendship dynamic is definitely a huge one where it's like I go to a smaller school where there's not a lot of people. They've known each other since the kindergarten and there's very obvious cliques. Yeah. There's people who always hang out all the time and there's no problem with that. But everyone has

their group and we're not really like a united grade at all that's that's what's called high school yeah it's very much segregated but i feel like i feel like 11th grade is when it's supposed to open up and everyone's supposed to like kind of come together and we all mesh and there's not so much of that clickiness anymore because you've gotten past the ninth and tenth or tenth grade drama but like now we're we're almost in the ninth and 10th grade right now. Like we're in the 10th grade because we're, we missed the 10th grade. So we're still in that stage of like opening up to one another.

And by the time we know it, like high school is going to be over and we're not going to be close. And it's just kind of, it's sad that we are robbed of that experience because I mean, it's, it's vital to become close with their grade. That's what you see in the breakfast club and all these movies, like random people becoming friends. And it's like this great dynamic.

Yeah, but most of those movies are all about how high school is actually unsatisfying. Yeah, but high school is unsatisfying. But like, I just, it's unfortunate that I feel like we should have all kind of come together by now. The one thing that's interesting to me is that people are meeting at parties again which i was worried about for two years where it was just people either facetiming or a friend of theirs it was like yeah i know your friend sally what and all of a sudden you're snapchatting with some stranger yeah well i mean party culture is definitely a very interesting thing especially in la yeah because la is one of the biggest cities in the world and it's like you go to these parties where people from schools that you haven't even heard of

are there and we're like all brought together in this one spot and you're just kind of meeting everyone and it's like your eyes are bulging out of your head and it's like all the shit's going on around you and you're like oh my god and la parties are next level like i genuinely i don't know why level in a good way and a bad way yeah but it's like i don't know why everyone just can't like i guess no one is okay with throwing a regular party anymore where it's just a bunch of people there and you're saying hanging out now it like has to be like there's a tattoo parlor and there's someone like piercing ears and it's like all this fucking weird shit and there's like oh two sumo wrestlers or i swear to god that's happened before there's two sumo wrestlers that came to a party and they've they fought for everyone it's like these la kids who

have money they're just like all right i'm gonna use this i'm gonna throw a crazy party and i'm going to invite the rock johnson and he's gonna fight one of the kids at the party. Like, it's like no one can have a good time without it being extravagant. So it's just, it's an interesting thing. I think that might be the LA. I don't know if that's the case around the world. I know it's not all over the world, but it's just like, it's insane to me. Then you have Ben Simmons who just goes to a mall and walks around with his friends. Yeah, I actually saw a couple of delinquents yesterday who were getting in it with six security guards.

And I was like, that looks like someone ben would be friends with the the party culture do some of the tricks for how people get invited to parties oh wow this is also people about a huge part of the social media presence which is it's so sad that i'm about to say this but honestly was why i was like more aware of my account when i was posting it's because like people decide who can come to a party and who can't because it all exists on Instagram or Facebook either you're invited on Facebook to go to a party or it's like you have Facebook you invited Facebook yeah they use it only for parties I don't use it but on Instagram you can request an account and then the people that are throwing the party will like look through your account see what mutual friends we have like what type of post

you make like I it's like a fucking it's a dating app or something and they they have to like look through your account, see what mutual friends we have, like what type of posts you make. Like it's like a fucking, it's a dating app or something. And they have to like look through your profile and see if you're valid enough to go to their party. So it's like, you have to kind of keep up with your profile and have good stuff on there in theory, because that's how you get invited to stuff

if that's something you care about, which sadly was something I cared about. So in 2022, we figured out a way to make high school kids feel worse about themselves. It's an amazing job. So then didn't you say one of the parties that the guy was like, you have to leave a good review. Oh yeah. This is, this kid's awesome. And he throws great parties. So there's no hate to him. And like, if you're throwing a party like this, where it's like, you have a lot of people coming, potential damage, you're putting money into it yourself, it makes sense to get something out of it. And this kid's like a scheming genius.

He made this app. And he had everyone who wanted to go to his party, he was like, you have to leave a review on my app and download the app. So he's basically profiting off of every single person that's coming to his party and getting money made on his app. You have to pay at the door and you have to buy his app. So he's basically profiting off of every single person that's coming to his party and getting money made on his app. You have to pay at the door and you have to buy his app. So it's just like this kid is scheming and then he gets to throw a great party. He's like, honestly, he's like a, it's insane.

Well, and then the other one is they create the IG account and then they just, you get a follow request and you have to follow it and then you're on this list just with the private list of people i thought that was kind of ingenious it's it is it actually is because they get to choose who they want to follow people out yeah i've been booted out once before it didn't feel good i mean i didn't know the person so they had no obligation to invite me

but i was slightly upset about it and And then senior year, the competitive college stuff that's in where like early admission is now like, you have to know where you're going in December basically because there's so many more applications for all these colleges. Fortunately enough, I don't have to deal with that because I know where I'm going to school. Yeah. Hopefully. Well, you know where you're going. Yeah. But it's soccer related. Yeah. Yeah.

But everyone in my grade, it's like hilarious. I'm not hilarious because I feel bad for them because a lot of them are applying to like 25 plus schools having to write all these essays and things. But they'll have like people come to our school to talk to us like representatives from each school and it'll be like a hundred kids going to these meetings. And then you'll hear whispers about like, who ed here who's ed there like i can't ed there because this person has more qualification early admission for people yeah yeah they have more qualification and like better assets about themselves they'll get in this school over

me i can't ed here and it's like all of this like drama it's literally book smart like hearing this would be a good netflix horror movie where you're like the someone in your school is the eighth probably best candidate to get into whatever pick an ivy like yale yeah sure and they have to eliminate the seven people in front of them and they just each one each one each one's murdered michael myers style until they're the best college that would be a good one that'd be a good one that'd be a good one you would 100 watch that movie absolutely would but it's it's really insane the amount of competitiveness that people have been feeling the whispers that i've heard

the reasons why it's always been this way i'll tell you this college is the college process is that change it sucks and i i feel very bad for everyone who is going through this and dealing with it because it's not fun. You're kind of in that weird limo thing where you know where you're going next year, but you still have to get through this year and enjoy it. But at the same time, mentally, you kind of start to move to the next year. Yeah, I'm like floating away from high school. I mean, I love high school and I want to savor every last moment of it because you don't ever get it back. And when you're out of it,

people are like, oh, I really miss it. I wish I like savored it more. So I'm trying to do that. But I mean, it's hard to stay motivated, which I obviously am trying to stay motivated and I wouldn't be happy with myself if I did poorly this year. But it's hard to like maintain motivation.

Do you have any tips? I mean, just remembering that it's not 100% and if you fail, then you're not going to go to the school that you want to go to. So just. Well, you have to like with the soccer thing, you have to stay. I have to stay healthy. Because you know you're playing next year, which has been really good for you. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of factors that go into it. I'm very grateful for my situation. But it's also unfortunate when like, you know, I've sacrificed so much my whole life to like get here. Yeah. Or I have missed birthday parties, social events. Like I wasn't as close with people as others were because I didn't have the time to be. And like everyone now is like, oh, you're so lucky.

Like you already know what school you're going to. Like this, like cakewalk oh you're so lucky like you already know what school you're going to like this like cakewalk you're so lucky and i'm like i also i did all the work that you're doing now in a different way for my whole life so it's like it's just kind of a lot of weekends learning how to like deal with uh just people saying stuff about it and like maybe not thinking that you were meant to be in the position that you're in. So just it's stuff like that. Everyone's competitive and that's the way that it is. And it's understandable. But, you know, it's just the college process is weird and it definitely brings out true

colors. That's for sure. That's not a dig at anyone. Well, maybe. Before we go, 2022 pop culture. Yeah. It seems like the pioneers are running 2022. Harry Styles.

Harry Styles, yeah. Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. And the like the pioneers are running 2022. Harry Styles. Harry Styles, yeah. Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. And the Kardashians. The Kardashians. So, Harry Styles is trying to be a movie star now.

You like this movie. I'm in complete support of this. I think he has a fantastically soothing voice, which I would love to... I love British people. British accents are fantastic. I luckily have a soccer coach now

that has a British accent and it's like the most awesome thing. But I would love to see him in more movies just for that reason. It's not hard to look at. There's that. And he's a good actor. So I think that he's definitely,

I mean, he's just a tyrant. He can be successful in so many ways. Set in fashion trends. Yeah, he's, I mean, he's- He's dating his director. That'll probably end soon. Oh, things aren't doing so well with that. Who would you pick for his next girlfriend?

That's kind of a hard one. I don't even know if I can think of anyone that would qualify to be good enough for Harry Styles. Who would you not want him to be next girlfriend? Like, stay away from the Kardashians. Oh, definitely not the Kardashians. Oh my God, that would be the worst thing ever. Like, not Kylie.

I know Kylie's like with Travis or whatever. But I think the Kardashians are Oh, definitely not the Kardashians. Oh my god. That would be the worst thing ever. Like not Kylie. I know Kylie's like with Travis or whatever. But I think the Kardashians are a whole other issue in themselves. Yeah, so explain what happened with the Kardashians. So for a while it was about curves and they were like the leader of the front for curves. But now it's happening. Well, the Kardashians, that's

like, that's been their whole thing. Like they obviously, they're up front or maybe not so up front we know that they've had some plastic surgery done yeah and like that's there's no problem or shame in that but for a long time that became the beauty standard within these past 10 years because like in the 2000s you're kind of real thin that was what was in like people wearing really really like low-waisted pants and like kind of hardly any clothing. It was like in to look like that.

And like Kardashians and other celebrities were like kind of the pioneers for a thicker woman. Yeah. More curves. And then now the Kardashians have lost a significant amount of weight and they're kind of going reverting back to this real thin thing that was going on in the 2000s after all of these people have followed the trend of having curves and have gotten

BBLs and boob jobs and things to fit into this fashion trend. Can you explain what BBLs are? Brazilian butt lifts. You're enhancing your bum basically. Please don't do that. like people are getting these operations done and then they can't afford to just change it back like the Kardashians can.

So it's honestly kind of detrimental for women and men or whatever you identify as. It's detrimental for human beings in general to see fashion trends and body trends change so drastically and quickly. So Kardashian's still wreaking havoc 15 years later. Unbelievable. I support him, but it's just like,

be upfront about what you're doing. Well, they're trying to shake it up. To stay a major celebrity, you got to keep zagging. You got to keep zagging when everyone's singing. I get it, but it's pretty tough. But the one who just keeps winning and winning is Taylor Swift. Yeah. You know what?

I love Taylor Swift. New album coming out. And I'm also an avid Kanye music fan. I can't say much for... I just hope he gets the help he needs. But I love his music. So it's kind of controversial to say how much I love Taylor Swift. But I love Taylor Swift. I it's kind of controversial to say how much I love Taylor Swift. But I love Taylor Swift.

I love the direction that she's in. I love that she's kind of a granola nature girl now. She's taking a step back from the drama. I feel like she's like my kind of weird aunt that I like a lot. She'll bring some cookies with maybe some CBD in them, and we'll have a nice time watching a Christmas movie together. That's like Taylor Swift. She's comfort. She's love. She has great music.

Keeps winning and winning and winning. The last piece of advice you have for the people out there is don't power watch the Dahmer series on Netflix. Please don't. I just did that and it gave me flashbacks or more like PTSD to when I

watched 17 Seasons of Grey's Anatomy and got super sad. And I was just like, why the hell do I feel like this? I feel so depressed all the time. Maybe because you're watching people die every day. And in Jeffrey Dahmer's case, eating and killed. So it wasn't an awesome 48 hours for me watching this entire series. I watched it on Saturday and Sunday morning because you guys were gone.

You're in Arizona for soccer and Ben doesn't want to hang out with me. And I watched it on Saturday and Sunday morning because you guys were gone. You're in Arizona for soccer and Ben doesn't want to hang out with me. And I had to do all my NBA season prep and I just banged out all the Dahmer episodes. You have to bang it out. I think, honestly, you have to do it like that because then you never have to watch it again. Yeah, it's like... It's a serial killer of watching. It's weird because they make a big deal. I think one of the reasons they made it was because

they wanted to give some voice to the victims and make it, hey, this guy just wasn't a cannibal. Yeah, and the racism that was involved with Jeffrey Dahmer and the cops not valuing. At the same time, they did kind of exploit some of the Dahmer crimes a little bit. I thought the best episode was the sixth episode about the deaf

guy when they told his whole backstory. That was really good. The most horrible thing I've ever seen in my life. You really feel for these people. This show was extremely intimate in the way where they showed the entire relation from beginning to end of Jeffrey and each one of his victims. Yeah.

And that's just such a hard thing to watch when you make an emotional connection to this person because you're you're getting to know them through jeffrey getting to know them and then you watch them be murdered it's like it's a very traumatizing thing and then it's like all these people who had suspicions about him but because of like racism and the way that they were well and also who he was killing so nobody really treated back in his time, no one cared to listen to them. So it sucked.

Here's my Dahmer take. Other than the serial killing. Which, you know, is what will end up being his legacy and rightly so. But really rough hang. Yeah, he sucks. Not fun to hang out with

for even five minutes. And then the big thing for me, horrible neighbor. Like really just irreprehensibly. Yeah, I mean, you're smelling the scent of decaying flesh. How many times can you just say my parents mailed me pork chops and the refrigerator broke? How long have they been bad, Jeffrey? I don't understand how that wasn't.

And how does the lady next door not be like, that's got to be some sort of rotting corpse. She called the police every day. I know. She did. And they didn't listen to her. Now social media, she'd be a TikTok star, right? She would have made a TikTok the first day that she smelled something weird in that living room. And then the TikTok investigators would have gotten the police during in moments.

Yeah. I guess that's one beneficial part of social media but i hate jeffrey dahmer and he has no personality either like if you're gonna be a serial killer episodes out and do the i mean but it was awesome and the actor i don't remember what what his name is yeah i watched a jeffrey dahmer interview after i finished the show just a moment ago because i'm just curious as to what the real guy is like and I mean he got him down to a tee like the man your the mannerisms the Milwaukee accent the accent the way in which he behaved like how he was so soft-spoken and then all of a sudden

he becomes a serial killer like it's one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life my roommate Chip Kane was from Milwaukee and Jeff Gall, my best man in my way. We flew to Milwaukee to go see Chip and go to some... I think we went to like a Brewers game. I don't remember. We did a whole bunch of Milwaukee stuff. Tell me you didn't go to... Oh, we made him take us to the Dahmer place.

God, you were so weird. We did. We went. It's not a place anymore, though, is it? I thought they destroyed it. It's a lot. It was... I can't remember if we went

I think it had already been destroyed and he took us there that and we were just like Jesus like because Dahmer was the real life

Michael Myers if Michael Myers ate people I mean it's so we had to go see it's 10 times worse than Michael Myers yeah and the fact that he had remorse too

makes it even worse because he was like aware of the shit that he's doing do we think he had remorse though or is makes it even worse because he was like aware of the shit that he's doing. Do we think he had remorse, though? Or is that the move you make when you're in jail after you've murdered 20 people? No, but I genuinely I do feel like he was just purely evil because with these other serial killers, it's like obviously if you murder someone, you're evil in some sense. But like a lot of them they were like psychotic too he like was not psychotic in any way he was completely stable throughout every like

killing that he did he's just like a horrible like even the cannibalism he's he's totally stable so disgusting and then he tried to feed his next door neighbor that sandwich oh yeah he was like eat it eat it in front of me would you take a sandwich from your next door neighbor that sandwich. Oh, yeah. He was like, eat it. Eat it in front of me. Would you take a sandwich from your next door neighbor that's housed constantly smells like a rotting Murph's butthole? I wouldn't take. I'm trying to think what I would take from him. Like that's honestly, that was the most like.

I wouldn't take like an unopened pack of batteries from him. No, I wouldn't. Because it would have the stench of. Nothing. Yeah. Terrible job by the milwaukee cops they were the big show really well done i gotta say it was very well if you're interested in this type of stuff and you want to have a really shaky 50 hours and have creepy dreams

like i did you know i had to fall asleep to your rewatchables like twice so i could hear your voice and like be soothed so the moral of the story is, so we had an intervention with Zoe for social media. We righted the ship and then she watched a 10 hour Dahmer series and now she can't fall asleep. So I'm just a great parent. Zoe Simmons, pleasure as always. I look forward to your end of the year awards on the BS podcast. See y'all then. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks again to Brian Windhorst. Thanks to Zoe Simmons, my lovable daughter. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey as well.

Don't forget, rewatchable as Boogie Nights, two parts. You can go check that out on the feed right now on all platforms. And I'll see you on this feed on Thursday. I don't have