The Bill Simmons Podcast - JackO on 'Mike and the Mad Dog,' and Shea Serrano on the Best Worst Movie Dunks (Ep. 239)

Episode Date: July 19, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on old buddy JackO to discuss Aaron Judge's slump after the home run derby (7:00), the Yankees' trade for Todd Frazier (12:00), the scariest hitters in the Yankees–Red Sox rivalry (26:30), and the genius behind 'Mike and the Mad Dog' (34:00). Then, The Ringer's Shea Serrano joins to break down the Best Worst Movie Dunks of all time (49:00) and explain what's going on with the Spurs (1:03:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor. The easiest way to shop for the best tickets, thanks to their revolutionary grading system. Jacko, are you using SeatGeek? Please tell me you are. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's my favorite ticket buying experience.

My listeners get $10 off baseball tickets the first time they use SeatGeek. You just waltz in the Yankee Stadium. You just waltz in. They're like, Jacko, where can we put you? Absolutely. Most people don't have that luxury, so they can use promo code BSMLB and you get $10 off. Download the SeatGeek app today or go right to

SeatGeek.com. We're also brought to you by Joe House's new podcast, House of Carbs. Jacko, you've known House since September 1988, maybe even August 1988. August of 88, yes. We didn't even know what a podcast was back then, but we knew that Joe House was destined to talk about food to complete strangers, correct? Absolutely.

He's found his calling, I know it without a question. What was your favorite eating experience with joe house do you have um i remember going to las vegas i forgot if it was for your bachelor party or his bachelor party and we went out to breakfast in the casino wherever we were staying at the bellagio or whatever and he ordered something and then the waiter or waitress went to move on and he's like oh no i'm not done and he ordered like two more things. It was like three separate entrees. I think it was like, obviously we had woken up late, so he kind of covered the breakfast, lunch, like his own little brunch.

Like he wasn't sure if he wanted eggs or like a sandwich and decided just to get both. Right. Yeah. As well as like a cheeseburger. So that was pretty funny. That sounds like somebody who should be hosting a podcast about eating. It's called House of Carbs. This waitress oh good the waitress thought he was ordering for the whole table and then she started to walk away we're like wait a second we'd like

something too uh this week he has david chang mike lombardi and myself talking about diners i told the story about mr g's dinerer, Jersey Shore. Yeah, I did. Because we were talking about the authentic experience about diners and how they're usually owned by one person or a family. And I was like, my favorite diner I've ever been to is Mr. G, which had the Mr. G's special sauce. And we always had that joke about how he made the special sauce, and we really didn't want to know.

Well, right. I think what it was, actually, it was the Mrs. G special, and when it came, you said, this looks more like it was made by Mr. G. That's right. That's the Mrs. G special. I actually just talked about that at our, the last time I was on a podcast when I went to our reunion,

and we went out for breakfast, and I told all the guys that I was hanging out with at the reunion, we were eating breakfast about the Mr. and Mrs. G from the Jersey Shore. Yeah, these are the stories. That's probably the hardest I've ever laughed in my life when they brought that out and we all looked at, our hungover selves all looked at that thing and I almost coughed up a lung.

Yeah, those are the kind of stories that House of Carbs inspires. You can listen to that podcast, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And we should mention Talk the Thrones, our new twitter show which comes on immediately after game of thrones ends on hbl all you have to do is go to twitter go to at ringer our twitter feed or you can just type in the game of thrones hashtag

and it'll be pinned at the top chris ryan andy greenwald mally rubin jason concepcion all talking about the greatest show on television right now and really breaking it down like Mel Kiper Jr., Charles Barkley. Name your studio analyst. Jacko, you're in on Game of Thrones. Sadly, I'm not. You tried to get me in a few years ago. You never got in?

I never got in, and now I feel like so left out because I go on Twitter, and I don't know how many people I follow, 40 or 50 or whatever. And every other tweet for like Sunday was all Game of Thrones. And, you know, you might as well be tweeting in Sanskrit to me. I don't understand any of these things. So at this point, it's such a daunting task to now get in on the ground level and rewatch however many seasons it is. Yeah. Well, maybe the winter, maybe the winter winter when we're snowed in and cold,

I'll get my wife and we can get in on Game of Thrones. But I do feel at sea. My dad banged out 60 episodes in two weeks, but he's retired. Exactly. Maybe I'll take a leave of absence from work and say I've got to catch up on Game of Thrones. Yeah, you can say you have to have a surgery

and just go away for two weeks. Exactly. Right. Coming up later, Shea Serrano, I've got to catch up on Game of Thrones. Yeah, you can say you have to have a surgery. You just go away for two weeks. Exactly. Right. Coming up later, Shea Serrano. Coming up right now, Jacob of First Pearl Jam. All right, that was the soothing sounds of Jacko you heard at the beginning of this podcast, my buddy, my old college roommate, lifelong Yankee fan, lifelong Republican.

We're going to talk Yankees first. I haven't, you came on like about i don't know like four or five weeks ago and then aaron judge went to like four other levels culminating in his uh home run derby two-hour orgasm which then sent his career in a tailspin so at first we should probably talk about that i got two hits last night come on i'm already remembering it nostalgically when aaron judge was good it's like you look back it nostalgically when Aaron Judge was good. It's like you look back. It's like when Larry Bird was good before he hurt his back.

It's like, oh, Aaron Judge. Remember him before the Home Run Derby? Blasphemer. He's a really charismatic guy, though. Let's start here. Derek Jeter's retiring, and all the Yankee fans are just almost catatonic. They don't have their hero anymore. Their whole world has collapsed.

And then Aaron Judge emerges from the ashes. He's a 6'7 version of Derek Jeter. He actually kind of looks like he could be Derek Jeter's giant son. He hits the longest homers we've seen since the heyday of Sosa and McGuire, who are obviously loaded up on all kinds of performance enhancers. He's 6'7". Right. He seems like a great guy.

Everyone talks about what a great person he is, which always makes me suspicious whenever that happens in sports. But in this case, it really does seem like he's a nice guy. This is like out of central casting. Is this the most important person in your life other than your two kids? And my wife. I don't want to throw my wife out of the bus he's up there he definitely is i mean if you could be anybody's agent in sports you could make an awesome case for judge because he's in he's in new york city obviously he's a new york yankee it's a totally marketable team he's got this name judge Judge, that plays in with all these

people in judicial robes and judicial wigs and the gavel and the whole nine yards and the judges' chambers and all rise. He's this gigantic guy, the biggest position player in the history of baseball. He wears number 99. It's kind of like a wild thing from Major League. He's got a great number. He's super down to earth. He won't bang his chest and praise himself, even if he has a multiple home run day or a multiple hit day or does some amazing things. He always talks about the team or the starting pitcher or somebody who made a good defensive play. I mean, he is the total package now. I think he was raised right. His parents were teachers. They emphasized doing his homework first and everything. And he just seems to be like this miracle kid that came out of, like, it's like the natural, like out of the Nebraska wheat fields.

And he's just like, he's from California, actually. I know he's not from Nebraska. But, you know, the natural where this guy came out of nowhere and the kids just, like, put the team on his back and set New York on fire. It's incredible. I saw a great interview with his father, Victor Conte, and Victor was saying... Oh my God. You bastard. I'm hanging up.

Hey, listen. Anytime somebody can hit more homers in their first major league season than they did in their entire minor league career, I'm sure it's on the level. He just got up from the minors they test like every freaking day in the minors come on no i know he's six foot seven he weighs 286 like he's a freaking giant i'm just bitter i'm just bitter i don't know how this happened it makes me so angry i was so happy to live in a world where the yankees had no hero. And this whole generation of Yankee fans

was going to grow up without anyone to idolize and they're going to be talking to themselves and like D.D. Gregorius and Matt Holliday. Yeah, he is good. But this is like out of central casting. I mean, I don't want to jump the gun. Actually, I do. Because if I jinx Aaron Judge, God bless myself.

But if this goes the way it's going, I think he's going to be in the running for the all-time most popular Yankee. I mean, what's more fun than a slugger who can come up and at any point in the game hit a 500-foot homer? That's like the number one draft pick for what you'd want from a baseball star. I mean, it's like, you know, he's Ruthie and he hits these home runs. It's not just that he hits home runs, but he hits them. I mean, he hits the places where nobody's ever hit them before. So it's really like, it's like a Hollywood movie. It's, it's crazy. And it's totally, that's what people like about baseball. You want to see moonshot home runs. So he's got the total package. You know, if a guy comes up and he's a great pitcher, like, you know, Doc Gooden way back

when the eighties for the Mets, he kind of caught the fire of New York. But it's different with a pitcher. You know, he throws hard, strikes out a lot of guys. But home runs are like the, you know, that's what baseball is all about.

So to hit these shots that, you know, break TVs and luxury suites and, you know, hit places in Marlins Stadium where NASA said balls were never supposed to go,

it's just absolutely incredible. I mean, the kid's got, he's got the whole world ahead of him, really. There's no limit to what he can be or what he can do for the Yankees. If somebody said Aaron Judge is going to tear his bicep unless you eat a plate of cat poop, would you eat the cat poop? I'd give it a good long consideration, yeah. I'd probably negotiate the terms of the poop.

Yeah. Like what the cat ate beforehand and how big it had to be. But I'd contemplate it. I've got to say, just as a Red Sox fan who just hates this more than anything, I've been, ever since the, you know, I start watching baseball after. I'm in NBA, as Sal Cos me. I'm an NBA hole. But then basketball ends. It gets through the draft.

Free agency. And right around end of June, I'm monitoring the Red Sox, but I'm not watching. I've been watching a ton of baseball since we turned the calendar to July. And I've found myself, because on DirecTV, it's like Nesson's 628, I think, and I think the Yes Network's like 631. And this is the first time I can ever remember doing this. I found myself kind of flicking over the Yankee game to see if Judge is coming up. Right.

Unheard of. I hate the Yankees. It really is. I must watch TV. Yankees game is boring, and they've been awful for the past month. And I'm like, well, Judge is up next inning. Let me just stick around and watch Judge hit. Because you don't know what he's capable of or what he could do,

and you want to be able to see it. And my daughter, who's 11, is head over heels in love with him. You should try that. Ten years from now, you should work that. Absolutely. You could be Aaron Judge's father-in-law you know like Jeter didn't get married until he was 40, 15 years my daughter will be 26, I'm like that could actually

work that would be the most emotional wedding toast you could give as a father-in-law my two favorite people have decided to join forces I remember when the Red Sox got Manny, and we just never had a hitter like him before. In that first year of 2000, I remember no matter what was going on,

I was like, well, Manny's coming up in three at-bats, or Manny's coming up next inning. Even when you went to the game, nobody went to the bathroom when Manny was up. Ortiz, who was on the Red Sox longer and I think is more popular, he never got to the level for me where it was like, oh, my God, Ortiz is up. Because they even hit homers. They weren't like these majestic bombs. But this judge seems different.

In the back of your mind, you knew it was kind of tainted. No, I didn't was kind of tainted. No, I didn't know it was tainted. Are you talking about Judge or Ortiz? You could really fully embrace it. I'm talking about Ortiz. Oh, all right. You always had that little question mark in the back of your mind that wouldn't let you fully embrace it.

I really didn't. That's called guilt, Bill. That's called guilt. There's a couple others on the O3 team I might have had some questions about. Some inklings. Yeah. But, man, when you have somebody on your team like that, that even if it's like you're down 8-2, but it's like,

eh, this guy's coming up next inning, I'm going to stick around. Exactly. That's the best. This Yankee team in general is really good. I don't know if it's great, but it's in the mix. I think I watched a bunch of Yankees Red Sox over the weekend, and the big hole was the bullpen, and then you went out and you got... Yeah, Robertson and Conley, or whoever you pronounce his name, yeah.

That should help. And really, they got rid of Tyler Clippard, who was the bane of my existence so the fact that when i was tired last night i went to bed early because i'm old and uh there was rumors of this trade and whatever and i was like i'm curious what prospect they'll give up but i just couldn't stay awake and i went to bed i got up today and i saw i had like you know 20 plus notifications on twitter and i'm like oh my god what did they do and i looked and it said you know tyler clippard was gone, and I had gone on some epic Tyler Clippard rants lately, where he was giving up moonshot home runs, and I think opposing batters were hitting like 375 against him, and I just couldn't take any more Tyler Clippard.

So it was really like, like I said on Twitter, it was like Christmas morning. Whatever else happens with the trade, somebody actually wanted Tyler Klippert. It's unheard of. So that's a win-win-win regardless of what else happens with Robertson or Frazier or Conley. I would look at it the other way. I think during this trade, the Yankees were like, all right, we'll do this. But you have to take Tyler Klippert. Yeah, definitely.

I don't think the White Sox were like, hey, any chance we get Tyler Klippard, the guy who's been getting racked for five weeks? Chapman should get the executive of the year just for including Klippard in this thing to get him out of town. Well, you know, I have a lot of personal history with a lot of dynamics with this trade because, you know, that crazy AL Keeper League I'm in.

We actually were fighting with this other team to win the title this year. It's like it's all culminated. We made a big trade last week. Like, we're really going for it. But we have Chapman and Batonsas. Right. I remember you saying that at the beginning of the year. And they've been overworked.

And Batonsas, you can see. It's like it's really affected in the last six weeks. His control has been horrible. And you've got to figure he's tired. Oh, yeah. He's overworked. His control has been horrible. And Chapman hasn't been great since he came back from the DL. He was great before he went on the DL, to be honest.

No. He's not been Chapman-esque. That's worrisome. And you've blown 18 saves. It wasn't all Chapman, but at some course of 18 different games, a save was blown. Yeah. The White Sox, that guy Conley, like the third or fourth week of the year,

he had like – he pitched like eight innings and had like 17 strikeouts, like one of those crazy things. Yeah. And I put in for him, and I put in on a phone, on a free agent transaction for like a dollar. I'm like, I'm going to grab this guy. And somehow my phone screwed it up, and it didn't go through. And I was like, oh, man, I'll get him next week.

And then he had like nine strikeouts and three innings or something the next week, and then somebody else picked him up for six bucks. So he's been haunting me all year. I've been watching him. The guy, he's basically two strikeouts an inning. Yeah, his strikeout stats are fantastic. And Robertson's good, too. So now you have four relievers.

You know, the Red Sox, Joe Kelly got hurt. Joe Kelly was lights out this year, but he just got hurt. And then they've had a 16-inning game against your Yankees on Saturday. And then last night, I think it was 15 innings. And it just feels like this bullpen is going to crater unless they do something. I'm worried. I feel like the Yankees might be coming. Well, you know, all year I was so excited.

I went to an extended family gathering in New Jersey at the weekend of June 10th. And we're coming home on June 11th, and the Yankees had won 16-3 on Saturday, and they're winning 14-3 on Sunday. And they're in first place by, like, four or five games. I'm like, oh, my God. And we were driving over the George Washington Bridge, and I'm listening to the game on the radio,

subjecting my family to the dulcet tones of John Sterling and Susan Waldman. And I'm like, this Yankees team, like, my God. And I'm looking at Manhattan as I drive over the bridge. I'm like, the Yanks, this is great. And they went to the West Coast and they completely fell apart. And they just have had the roughest month and everything was like hitting on all cylinders. And you expected they were going to come back to earth a little bit because

nobody expected them to play at the level they were playing at. But I didn't expect this abject misery for literally five weeks now. I think they've gone 10 and 21. But hopefully this is a spark to turn things around. I still think the team's good. Because if you look at the run differential, which obviously is a flawed stat in a lot of ways, but you guys are plus 101.

The only other team that's over 100 in the American League is the Astros. They're plus 169. The Red Sox are only plus 63. I don't know what your record is in close games, but it does fit. The Yankees right now, as we're taping this, are 48 and 44. But I would argue your bullpen, if you had a decent bullpen, if you had the bullpen you have right now for the whole season, I think you would be like eight to ten wins higher.

Yeah, I mean, during the course of this awful run, they had leads in a lot of those games. Even out on the West Coast when things started to go bad, they had leads and then they inexplicably blew them. And, I mean, you know, Batances and Chapman, the bullpen was supposed to be a strength and it has not be a strength and it has not been a strength so this trade can only help i think robertson's done it before in new york conley has amazing strikeout numbers and you know analysts were saying on twitter today that this is trying to follow the royals model in 2014 of shortening the games and having amazing

bullpen your starters might be a little shaky but if your starters only have to go five and you can run out Robertson, Conley, Batances, and Chapman, hopefully if it goes according to plan, you know, that hopefully that's going to work out more often than not. You know, I'm, I'm happy with it. I mean, they give up this kid Rutherford, who's their number three prospect, but he's an outfielder. So you got judge and you got Frazier and you know, there's not a lot of places for him to play and you got to give up something to get something. So I think overall it was a good move.

So we have Rutherford in my League of Dorks team. I've been monitoring him closely because we're kind of dangling him for trades, and the big fear was that they were going to trade in the National League. But he's really good. Yeah, that's what I've heard. I mean, the White Sox have made all these trades where they're just cherry-picking these top 50 baseball America guys. They have just a shit—I think they have eight. Yeah, even the top 100 I saw this morning. They have that Moncada that the Red Sox gave them.

Kopich, the guy who throws like 104 miles an hour. And then they got the guy from the Cubs. They got Rutherford. They're stockpiling. So four years from now, we're going to have to worry about them. Yeah. The Aaron Judge thing, does he have a partner in crime? Is Sanchez like a Dirk Diggler, Reed Rothschild type of thing?

Or not really? No, not really. I mean, Sanchez, since he came off the DL, he's been good, too. And you kind of forget about, you know, he was the Aaron Judge of last year over a shorter period of time for the last, you know, two, three months of the season. But he didn't put up quite the numbers Judge did. But, you know, he hit home runs very quickly in a short period of time. So, you know, that Sanchez, you know, that lineup you look at,

they brought up Clint Frazier. He's been really good. So he had a walk-off. He's been really good. So he had a walk-off. He only got three home runs, but his average is coming up, and people rave about his swing. So, yeah, you would like to think that Judge and Sanchez are the Ruth and Gehrig of the 21st century murderer's row, you know. But he's been good.

But, like, Sanchez seems to pal around with this with Ronald Torres, who's like a five-foot-whatever infielder. They have a shtick. It's kind of like a twins deal where, like, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Dave DeVito, one's huge and one's small. And guys lift up Torres to high-five Judge. And in Yankees magazine, they, like, switch jerseys. And so it seems like they're buddies.

So I don't know, like, who he hangs out with on the team, but they seem to be buddies. Pineda's arm finally fell apart. We've been waiting for it for five years. I've had him on fantasy teams. His motion just seemed like at some point something terrible was going to happen. So you still need another starter. What's that? You still need another starter.

Oh, God, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, they have this kid, Jordan Montgomery, who's pitching today. Yeah, he's been good. Either Severino or the young guys have been their best guys. Yeah. Severino's come back to earth a little bit. But, you know, Tanaka has not been great, to say the least.

And he's given up home runs at an amazing rate. And, you know, Pineda, even before he got hurt, he was a roller coaster ride. So, yeah, they could – and Sabathia, you know, he was great. He went on the DL, and then he's had one bad start and one good start. So, you know, he's a crapshoot because of his age and the miles on his arms. You never know what you're going to get. So, yeah, they could desperately use another starter. But, I mean, the philosophy is that now they shorten the games with the bullpen

and all you need is five innings out of a guy and maybe they figure they can get that. I don't know. Well, you're going to score runs, which is a problem. Yeah, that's the thing. Very important question here. Now that Klippert is gone, who's your least favorite Yankee? Oh, that's a good question.

Who's going to bear the brunt of your 11 o'clock p.m., two glasses of wine, and your tirades? Well, Chase Hedley's always a good candidate for scoring. I don't really dislike Chase Hedley. And I always felt bad about Tyler Clippard for my rants against him, but he was just so bad. He seemed like a nice kid. I thought they were mean. I think you're better than that. I think they were mean.

I don't know. What if Tyler Klippert has Twitter? What if he's following you and you're just hurting his feelings, making it worse? I'd like to publicly apologize to Tyler Klippert. That's good. Things were said in anger that I didn't mean the next day. So I wish you all the best in Chicago. And maybe in a couple of years when they're good, you'll be still kicking around in the bullpen.

All the best. Well, speaking of... Hopefully pitching against the Yankees in an ALCS. Speaking of wine-related rants. Yes. Have you heard about TryWink.com? TryWink? Yeah.

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I'm a Cabernet. The ladies are drinking a lot of rosé lately. You have? I'm not a rosé guy. No. My wife will have an occasional rosé. Yeah. That is all the rage.

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Hey, my team played your team for four days. Yeah. What Red Sox player were you most scared of when they were coming up to the plate? Not really any. That's been an amazing part. I mean, now that David Ortiz is gone, I mean, I had such fear of David Ortiz for the past, what, 12 years of my life that now that he's

gone, literally, like, nobody in that lineup gives me the feelings that Ortiz gave me of, like, fear, loathing, and hatred, and worry as to how hard he was going to hit it. I saw an amazing stat. I was watching the game I think it was on Saturday

at the Saturday game. It was not the one that went... I don't think I was watching the game. I think it was on Saturday. Was it the Saturday game? It was not the one that went. I don't think I was watching the one that went 15 innings, but I was watching one of the Saturday games. The Red Sox were like two for 61 with runners in scoring position against the Yankees this year. And they had some other stat where they'd been shut out against the Yankees like three times this year instead of the previous 30 years.

They had only done it like five times or some crazy stat, whatever it was. But their offense has really been anemic against the Yankees this year. We lost our two Yankee killers. We lost Manny in 2008. Yeah. And then Ortiz, obviously. Last year, those were really the only two guys in the franchise since the Babe Ruth sale. Ortiz is up there with all-time Yankee killers.

Eddie Murray used to kill the Yankees. George Brett used to kill the Yankees. When I was a kid, they would always come up and kill the Yankees. Edgar Martinez was the Yankee killer. They could never get him out. And then Ortiz was legendary for that. The Yankees couldn't get Ortiz out to save their lives. So now that he's gone, I breathe a huge sigh of relief. And then Ortiz was legendary for that. The Yankees couldn't get Ortiz out to save their lives. Yeah.

So now that he's gone, I breathe a huge sigh of relief. Mookie Betts, I almost did a couple tweets about him this weekend, and I held off. Mookie Betts has been, like, quietly disappointing this year. It's been a really weird season where he's had, like, somewhere between eight to ten awesome games. But over the whole course of the body of work, he just hasn't been consistent. It's like his stats.

If you took out his eight best games, he's probably hitting 230. I looked it up. Last year, he had 30 games where he didn't get a hit. This year, on Sunday, when I was looking it up, he'd already had 30 games where he didn't get a hit. This year on Sunday when I was looking up, he'd already had 30 games where he didn't get a hit. And I don't know whether it's like there's more pressure on him because of Ortiz or what's going on,

but they don't have that stable, oh, you got to worry about this guy. We have this stable set. You know this guy is awesome person. My Red Sox friends, we're texting back and forth about whether they should make a move from Machado, which would really only be like a year and a half, and whether that's worth it. They have this guy, Raphael Devers, who's a top 10, top 5 prospect, depending on what list you're looking at, who's the third baseman, but he's not ready yet.

Their third baseman have been just one of the all-time abysses in the history of the franchise. And it's just an unbelievable... Is it fair to say Pablo Sandoval signing was a little bit of a disappointment? I would say it was the worst contract. Is that laying it down a little? I would say it was the worst contract of my lifetime, but we gave Karl Crawford like $180 million, or whatever that was.

We have two... The Red Sox have handed out, not to complain because we won three World Series, but the Red Sox have handed out, not to complain because we won three World Series, but the Red Sox have handed out two of the five worst contracts of all time. Yeah. That Sandoval contract is just a disaster. My God.

It's a disaster of epic proportions. My son, I don't know if I've told you about this. My son loves baseball now. That's good. And it started because he played on a team last fall and then this spring and really got into it and he goes on these deep dives like you know it was hamilton pro wrestling hockey like he just he's all in when he's in and it's been in with baseball and he's it's like watching an alien learn about baseball it's like he landed from another planet it's like

what's this and he just is following the history of baseball on youtube and he goes on his ipad and he just he's like dad how about that giants come back and whatever and i'm like oh my god but uh bobby thompson right so he's he's like a blank slate and he's been watching this red sox season and watching a lot of games with me and just instinctively knowing nothing knew knew that Pablo Sandoval was the worst baseball player in the league. He was like, why is he so fat? Why is he so bad on defense? Why do they play him there?

He stinks. How can we not have him on the team? It was hilarious because he's nine. But even he knew. He knows nothing. And he knew this was the worst baseball player in the league. And it got to the point where they were like, all right, Devin Marrero is going to just go 0 for 4 every game,

but at least ground balls just won't go by him. And then they brought this guy Lin up, who they tried to get good. It was like Lin Sanity. He had two hits once. And now Brock Holtz back, who battled Vertigo and has this look on his face like he just got off a fishing boat that had like a really rocky trip and he's up there trying to hit i feel bad for him like he just doesn't look right so i think they're going to be a trade for a third baseman waiting to happen i thought it was gonna be todd frazier but

well that's the rumor that you know the Yanks swooped in with a better prospect. And it's such a strange thing to hear the Yankees have better prospects than the Red Sox because that's not been the case over the recent history, maybe all history, but certainly recent history. So, yeah, because I had somebody on Twitter last night when there was first rumors of a trade, and they were like, oh, Frazier was held out of the White Sox game, a healthy scratch. And they're like, maybe he's coming to the Red Sox and then it was like then I saw these rumors about you know the Yankees going for him and for Robertson and now that was the beginning of it so you know everybody thought Frazier to the Red Sox was a done deal we had good prospects but Dave

Dombrowski just started trading them all over the place the Chris Sale trade's been amazing I would do that one again chris sale is in the running for the best red sox pitcher i've ever seen if you remove the two pedro seasons which obviously can't be touched but he's up there with any clemens season he's up there with any non-99 2000 pedro season um i don't know what else you would put up there shilling in 2004 he blows away but it's like every time I watch Chris Sale, and now it's to the point where it's like you have to watch him because he's like a potential 20-strikeout game every time.

And the problem is his pitch count always gets a little too high. What was the game? It was the last time he pitched. They had to take him out in the eighth inning. That was the 16-inning game. Yeah, yeah. He ended up winning. He started that one, or 15-inning, whatever it was.

16, yeah. Yeah, he got to 118 pitches, and they probably rightly took him out and brought in Kimbrel in the eighth, which is just basically saying, we want this game to go 15 innings. Because Kimbrel just can't. He's like one of those classic closers that you just can't bring him in the eighth inning. But Chris Sale has been awesome. just can't somebody he's like one of those classic closers that you just can't bring him but chris sale has been awesome and price price on sunday night was the best prices looked as

as not only a red sox pitcher but probably even the last couple years like he was david price was back on sunday night so yeah unfortunately i usually never fear price because the yankees do great against them but he pitched well. So if we can get old Ricky P going, I don't know. It's a nice little playoff rotation. Yeah. There's some. If you guys get in the playoffs, I mean, you're going to be dangerous because Sale, you know, in a seven-game series, if you can set it up that he starts three times, that's, you know, you'd like your chances there.

He's ridiculous. Price doesn't love the playoffs, but maybe they can hypnotize him that it's the regular season and see what happens. All right. You didn't have to attack David Price. I didn't appreciate that. He's been through enough this season. It's true. He's done that with a lot.

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And if you don't love your first pair of MeUndies, they're free. There's a reason MeUndies has sold over 5 million pairs to date. Get 20% off your first pair plus free shipping at MeUndies.com slash BS right now. All right, let's talk about Mike and the Mad Dog. Yeah. I liked it, obviously. I mean, I could watch anything about Mike and the Mad Dog. It could have just been them sitting in a room talking about the weather,

and I was going to give it two thumbs up. I wish it was longer. I think it could have been two hours. But, of course, I'm a unique demographic, and I'm not sure the general public at large wants to watch two hours on Mike and the Mad Dog. They didn't. But I thought it was, like, a good synopsis of their time together and, like, what they did for sports radio.

You know, I love hearing the old clips clips and just Mad Dog is such a fascinating person to me. Like just his mannerisms and his way he speaks, just such an odd guy that it's just funny as hell to watch him interact with like other humans to me. Right. It's weird. It's weird for me critiquing 30 for 30 for about a hundred obvious reasons. But sure.

I thought it should have been 90 minutes. I thought it should have set the stage a lot in a much more profound way about what sports radio was like before and after they showed up. Right. I don't think they did enough as to

what it was like before them. With Pete Franklin on the fan and everything. You didn't even have to just concentrate on New York. You could have gone to any local city. Like, Boston had the sports huddle with Eddie Anderman, who we always used to make fun of when we were in college. But, you know, it was him and these two, basically two buddies, and it was, you know, there was some DNA of Mike and the Mad Dog in that show

before they kind of lost their fastball. But it made it seem like they kind of created this two-man format, which I didn't think was necessarily true. And then it made it seem like everybody copied that format from that point on, which I also don't think is true because you also have the Colin Coward type of...

Multiple job boots. Or you have the Colin Coward, like a guy by himself just being like, coming up, I'm going to tell you why the Seinfeld cast is like the Golden State Warriors. That's coming up next. And just these 10-minute monologues about whatever. Right.

So that was one thing. I thought if I had been involved, I would have really pushed them to make it more about sports radio and how it evolved and how important they were in that. But the thing I thought they really missed and they glossed over the nineties and you know, there, there was a whole 20 minute section. I feel like should have been in there. Like how huge Mike and the Mad Dog were in 1994. And you know,

I was in Connecticut that summer. Um, and it was basically like the OJ trial, the Knicks, the Rangers. The Knicks and Rangers both made the finals. The OJ thing happens. It's an incredible movie summer, which is another part that they didn't really hit with. Mike and the Mad Dog that summer first of all they were throwing 105 miles an hour each but those were shows where

it could be like you're talking about the Rangers Stanley Cup Finals but then it would go to OJ and then it'd be like hey dog what'd you think of Forrest Gump exactly that was the year Forrest Gump, Shawshank, Pulp Fiction it was a really great movie year and they had opinions on all of it.

And there was just nothing like it. And I almost feel like they didn't even hit how just unbelievable it was to hear two people talk on the radio about anything like that. I had never heard. You and I, what was the year we did? We drove to the Jersey Shore, and we just listened to them for five hours. Yeah. Listened to them for five hours and then talked like them the whole weekend. Sometimes the funniest part ever

is when they talked about non-sports things. Always. Like movies. They would have Jeffrey Lyons on once a year or a couple times a year and they would talk about what movies were out there or what was going to win the Academy Award. You're listening to these two guys talk about that and you're just dying laughing. They were completely serious

but it was just so over the top and so funny. I'll just like dying laughing. And they're completely serious, but it was just like so over the top. It's so funny. I never forget Mad Dog. They had him on once and he's talking about Oliver Stone. And he's like, I mean, all your movies are so dark. How about a romantic comedy? And he was serious. He wanted Oliver Stone to do like a romantic comedy.

Oh, my God. That was the thing they there was so much intentional and unintentional comedy with those guys that it just didn't hit

and like like they they were the guys that basically that the guessed the TV ratings which Sal

eventually Sal and I did Guess the Lions but Guess the Lions came from guessed the TV ratings alright Mike British Open.

Day three. What do you think? And Mike would seriously ponder it and be like, 1.8. 1.2. He'd be like, New York, 1.2. National,

1.5. And then I would be like, it was 1.6. Yeah, it's be like, it was a 1.6. Yeah, it's a good number. It's a good number. The other thing it didn't hit was, was, you know, part of the dog's success was that he was the outsider.

And like, you know, he would really torment the New York fans. And he was like, it was almost like the precursor to the internet troll. Exactly. And he took so much delight. He hated the Yankees. He took so much delight in their demise of anything.

Right. And callers would call him up and be so mad that he wouldn't worship Jeter and worship Joe Torre. And he would go back and forth with Torre when Torre took too many Yankees to the All-Star game. And he delighted in pissing off New York fans because he was not a fan, really, of any New York teams. Which is... So he loved to give them the needle. Yeah, you have the biggest city in America

and one of the most passionate sports cities in America, and you have a guy who doesn't like their teams hosting the signature show. Right. And then combined with Mike, who is like the all-time biggest Yankee fan, he's a huge Parcells fan, Parcells goes to the Jets. That was another thing they skipped over was Parcells going to the Jets when that show was at its peak.

And Francesa was one of his best friends, and they had obviously all this inside info. And that caused a lot of bad blood between them because Dog would always be like, Parcells can do no wrong to you. Like even when Parcells was screwing up the J the jets or the cowboys and francisco would never call him out because he was his friend and dog would call him out and then they would like not speak for two weeks you know i couldn't believe they didn't speak for two and a half months i didn't know that that's crazy yeah i can't even do a show like that with somebody because like mike and mike apparently don't don't really talk anymore yeah there's there's this great youtube quip of them announcing that mike's gonna leave the show to this thing and they're not making eye contact they're just kind of staring at like the table

and not looking at each other which is like you know you hate each other when you can't even make eye contact when you're doing a radio show together it's like impossible what do you what else are you gonna look at of course you're gonna look at the guy but uh but yeah i i felt like they could have blown that out and and if they had gone two hours then it becomes a whole thing about the history of sports radio in this country like that's a totally different documentary and you use those guys as the focal point i i wish they had done that my thing is if you're gonna do it do it like go all out make it make it uh make it really ambitious global yeah it would this was i don't know it was like a surface treatment of it i don't know how you gloss over the 90s and i don't think there's any way to properly explain how important

those guys were in the mid 90s in the new york sports scene like the other thing they missed was you know for years and years and years and years and years, the most important person in a big city was always the newspaper columnist. Right. Yeah. You know, and it was like, yeah, before them, it was Mike Lupka and in Boston, obviously it was like Gammon's and Bob Ryan and Shaughnessy even. But you go down the line, everybody, Washington had Kornheiser and Wilbon. You go on down the line, it was always the newspaper columnist.

And this was the first time that kind of the voice on things became a sports radio host. I mean, they single-handedly brought Mike Piazza to the Mets. Yeah, they covered that in the doc. They had that up for weeks and weeks. They made that happen. And they talked about that in the documentary where Nelson Doubleday was getting calls. And they're like, I mean, they made Mike Piazza happen to the Mets, and there was a time, certainly in the 50s, when it was all newspaper-generated,

where a newspaper columnist could make things happen with the team, get a guy fired or get a guy traded or whatever. And that totally flipped that. That's true, because it was pre-Internet, and for whatever reason, they had a bigger market than TV did because you had five hours a day, so guys that are in their cabs or driving or happen to be listening at work,

they had more of a following than even a TV guy would have. So they single-handedly made things happen in the way that columnists did in the 50s, definitely. And that was another thing that Doc missed, I thought, was when they rose to prominence, late 80s, heading into the early 90s, mid 90s, it was all pre-internet. And sports radio was just more important in 1994. It was like, this was our only outlet to hear people talk about the stuff we were talking about.

You could either read or listen to sports radio with two newspapers and a sports radio station. And then the internet kind of came into play, you know, 96, 97 range. And it started to shift. But it really didn't totally shift until the early 2000s. But, you know, in 1994, if we're talking about the OJ trial, it's just you and me at a bar. But then there's no other conversation happening that we're a part of. And's like oh these guys are talking about it you know and it just went to another level and i thought it missed that too i i just think it was more important to have a job like that in the mid 90s pre-internet now it's like you can get opinions anywhere you know you on twitter and get 40 opinions in a minute somebody who was not as familiar with Mike and the Mad Dog,

I got a lot of tweets about it after the fact, and people sending me messages on Twitter. Somebody was like, they have a Francesa convention, and they're like, it looked like it was about 98% male. And I'm like, well, I think that may be an underestimation. Yeah, I was going to say 100%. I don't think there was a woman within five miles of Francesa Khan. No. And that was, I mean, I don't know how they would woman within five miles of Francesa Khan. No.

And that was, I mean, I don't know how they would have covered this in the doc, but they were also probably the all-time record for if you were in the car with your girlfriend or wife, and they came on, you'd be like, turn that off, I hate those guys. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, that's uniquely male, is the demographic for Mike the Mad Dog. All right, you have 30 seconds to talk about Trump, and then we're leaving. Okay. Well, I'm tired of all the winning, as you can probably tell, because it's just one success after another.

Yeah, it's been great. He's really banging out wins. You know, I read something that was interesting. He went over to the G20, and it said that basically, like, foreign leaders have learned that if you, like, celebrate him and tell him how wonderful he is and, like, shake his hand and treat him to, like, a grand parade and a spectacle, he has no principles.

So as long as you're nice to him, like, he'll do whatever you want. So I'm worried one of these days he's going to go over to France, and they're going to end up with New Hampshire, and he's going to come back and be like, I gave New Hampshire to France, but it was a wonderful cake. It was chocolate like you wouldn't believe. They gave me a parade, so New Hampshire's no part of France. It makes you nervous.

He goes over to France for Bastille Day last week and Macron, the guy who's the new president of France, you know, they had this legendary 30 second handshake because, you know, you don't want, Trump's whole thing is through this power move of like not being the last guy to stop shaking hands or whatever. It's just crazy when you think about it. But like, I just don't know what he's capable of. And, you know, he goes over there

representing the United States at the G20 and it's like, President of the United States, Donald Trump. And you're just like, my God, how did we get here?

You know? It's just, I still can't wrap my head around it. I say that every time, but it's the truth. No headline is surprising anymore. It was like yesterday. Him and Putin

had a second meeting that they didn't tell us about. I was like, okay. I'm not surprised to hear that. It was like yesterday. Him and Putin had a second meeting that they didn't tell us about. I was like, okay. I'm not surprised to hear that. It's great. I'm excited. You know, when his kid has this meeting

with all these people and the New York Times is like doggedly after the story and, you know, you think it's like they're like, the reporters think

it's like Watergate, you know, they're Woodward and Bernstein and then he like tweets out the whole thing. Oh yeah, I met with these guys and, you know, like everybody's like, oh, he's Fredo. I think that does a disservice to Fredo, frankly. Right. Like Fredo didn't write a note to Michael. Like

I was with Johnny Ola in Cuba, you know? Yeah. I was thinking Fredo has been the go-to joke for so many years with this. Right. And Don Jr. really has a chance to become, like, just supplant Fredo and just become the go-to joke whenever there's that type of joke. Right. No, he's the Don Jr. of blank. Exactly.

The whole thing is just, you know, every day you wake up and you're like, oh, my God, what's today going to bring? Or, you know, what new embarrassment are we going to have to deal with? Well, I have good news, Johnny. We're one-eighth of the way home. There you go.

Yeah. There you go. All right, Johnny. This was a pleasure, as always. It's hard to believe we talked about the Yankees, Mike and the Mad Dog 30-30, and Trump. Who saw that coming? It was incredible. Go figure.

Stay cool in the summer. I hope Aaron Judge bounces back from this terrible tailspin he's in. I hope his career is okay. It would be awkward if he – has anyone ever won the home run title while finishing the season in the minors? Serious question. Oh, my gosh. Would they send him down to work on a swing before the playoffs?

He was two for four yesterday with two RBIs. The home run derby and the all-star break, it's all behind us now, onward and upward. I wish you the worst of luck. Talk to you soon. And you as well. Bye-bye. All right, on the phone, Shea Serrano.

How are you, Shea? What up, boss? We're going to talk about sports movie ducks in a second. But first, everyone loves massages, but it's always hard to book one. Well, what if you could book a five-star top-quality massage at a time that works for you in the most convenient place of all, your home? Or in Shay's case, your office. You could do this in your office, right, Shay?

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All right, Shea Serrano is a writer for The Ringer. He's my old Grantland teammate. We have worked together for four plus years. Tate Frazier won't give him a podcast. Are you talking to Tate? What's going on there? I refuse to talk to Tate. Bill, can I say real quick?

Yeah. I was reading this story not that long ago actually maybe a couple weeks it was this guy was talking about the first time that he was in the studio with naz when naz was rapping and how like this incredible experience it was i feel like he felt the same way i did right now listening to you read an ad for the first time i've been on had podcast. Had to be memorable for you. Yeah, someday when Tate gives you a podcast, you're going to have to learn how to do ads

at the level we've established here at The Ringer. One of these days. We should mention you have a book coming out. What's the date, October? October 10th. 10-10-17, baby. What's the name of the book? Basketball and Other Things.

So you wrote the rap movie book, which not only became a cult classic, but actually became successful. People bought it. It was the rare combination of a cult classic that actually sold copies. And people love it. You've had all kinds of strange celebrities writing about it, tweeting about it, hitting you up. And now you're going to do the basketball version of it. I'm excited. Give us the 20-second synopsis of what the book's about.

The book is about every chapter is a different basketball question that needs to be answered. But it's not basketball questions like magic or bird or whatever bullshit like that. It's new, interesting questions. Right. New questions that have not been asked yet. Yes, hopefully. All right. Well, on TheRinger.com today,

you wrote about the best, worst movie dunk. Explain what that means. Yes, we're talking about usually when you're watching the movie and there's a basketball scene in it the person who is playing basketball is an actor and that actor is generally not very good at basketball so they got to do all these fancy cutaway tricks and whatnot to make it look like they're good and a thing that they struggle a lot with is making it look like somebody who can't dunk knows how to dunk so the article was talking about that. All right.

You listed there's 22 that were in contention for the best, worst movie dunk of all time. I'm going to rip through these very quick. John Tucker's flip dunk. Ed Norton, American History X, which we're going to talk about in a second. Catwoman's dunk in Catwoman, which I forgot they even made Catwoman. Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man. O and O, which John Durant, I was glad you brought up O. women which i forgot they even made cat woman spider-man amazing spider-man oh and oh which john duray i was glad you brought up oh airbud on the poster for airbud scott howard as a werewolf and teen wolf billy hoyle's alley-oop and white man can't jump file that one away i want to talk

about it boogaloo's two-hander and above the rim, which three years ago on Grantland, Rafe Bartholomew, Andrew Sharp, and myself did an above the rim thing, and all of us had a lot of problems with Marlon Wayans and that dunk, but we're going to talk about that too. Lola Bunny and Space Jam. Rocky's rim attack dunk in Three Ninjas. Kenny Tyler in Six Man.

Calvin Cambridge in Like Mike. Brian Newell in Thunderstruck. I can't even believe Thunderstruck made the... Kevin Durant didn't even see Thunderstruck. Did you watch Thunderstruck or did you just go on YouTube? You didn't watch Thunderstruck, right? I watched Thunderstruck, of course. I watched Like Mike, Like Mike 2, Thunderstruck.

I'm all over those movies, man. All right. Chip Douglas in Cable Guy, which I had forgotten about. The Winning Dunk in the Air up there. The Super, which we're going to talk about that too. John Bender's Dunk in the Breakfast Club. I'm glad you brought this up because my daughter and I just watched this movie and I was horrified by it.

You said it was a nine-foot rim. I think it was like a seven-and-a-half-foot rim. Joanna Mann, which might be the most underrated basketball movie right now. Oh, Tate agreed with that. Your nemesis, Tate Frazier, agreed with my Joanna Mann opinion. Of course he did. Of course he did. Elliot Richardson bedazzled?

What the hell is bedazzled? What is that? You've never seen Bedazzled? No. Oh, Bedazzled is great. So Bedazzled came out right around 2000 or so. It stars Brendan Frazier. He's inazzled is great. So Bedazzled came out, you know, right around 2000 or so. It stars Brendan Fraser. He's in love with this woman.

He wants to make her fall in love with him. He makes a deal with the devil played by Elizabeth Hurley. And she's going to grant him wishes. And he's trying to make his life better so that he can get the attention of this woman. But every time that they get a wish granted, there's something wrong with it. And in Bedazzled, one of his wishes, he wishes to be a famous athlete. So the devil makes him the 7'6 basketball superstar. They show one game, he's dunking it from beyond the three-point line.

He's throwing hook shots. They're behind the back from pass, half court, everything. So he just scores over 100 points, like 40-something rebounds. But the main issue with that one, they're in the locker room, and he's being interviewed by the woman he's in love with, and his towel falls down, and it turns out he has a super tiny penis. And so he's like, you know what? Never mind. I don't want to be a rich, famous

basketball star anymore because I don't want to have this tiny penis. Every wish, there's something wrong with it. That's the movie. It's fantastic. I have a serious question. Was this a porn movie? It was not a porn movie. Oh, it's not a porn movie. It maybe should have been.

Okay. Last two. Quincy McCall's one-on-one dunk at the N11 basketball, which is a great movie. He dunks on his future wife. And then the dunk in Celtic Pride. Far be it for me to critique your list. I thought you left out a key dunk, but we're going back almost 40 years, so I don't blame you.

And I'm a little older than you. But Robbie Benson made a movie called One-on-One. I'm going to say 1977, where he's this high school... Did you see One-on-One? I don't watch any movie that came out before 1980. Is this like a...

Is this a rule you made i made it up i made it up right now all right he said that and i felt so one-on-one he's this high school recruit he goes to he gets recruited by this big college which i think is called like big state or something and he's a point guard he's like uh he's like a Ricky Rubio type, I would say. Floppy hair. Couldn't have been taller than like 5'10", 5'11". And at one point during one of the games, dunks in traffic. And you're going to have, if you spend the time you spent making this list, I'm going to send you the Robbie Benson dunk and you're going to have issues with it.

Okay. Also, just from a dunking standpoint, should not have made the list, but Dr. J's date in The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh when he takes his- Oh, I love that. All those dunks were realistic, but he is in street clothes on a date just dunking for this girl for no reason, which is one of my favorite things. Yeah. I think they're sitting on a Ferris wheel or something,

and she's telling him some very serious life issues that she's having, and then he's like, come with me. And then he just makes her watch him play basketball for like two minutes. But that movie came out before 1980. That was a pre-1980 movie. Yeah, I just think you missed one on one. I think you just missed it. Look, you watched every basketball movie ever.

All right, so you whittled this list down. And for some reason, you just decided to jettison Ed Norton's American History X dunk, which, in my opinion, the context of the blacks versus whites pickup game, which was just bizarre anyway. But then how jacked Ed Norton was and obviously did PEDs for the movie. I don't want to accuse Ed Norton of anything, but he gained 35 pounds of muscle just for that movie. It doesn't look like that anymore. But then the game ends with him doing off of two feet, a reverse two-handed dunk, which I would say 50% of the NBA players couldn't do.

And he's probably about six feet tall. So how does that not even make the final four for this list? Well, I think you should start every countdown you're ever doing by just automatically getting rid of any Nazis. That's the rule that we set in place there. Fair. But he, by the end of the movie, he was not a Nazi by the end of the movie. He wasn't, but he was a Nazi when he dunked it.

Okay, fair. I like that I tell you that we can't cut out Nazis and you're like, yeah, you're right, but. And then we go. When I was in San Antonio, when I was living here before I left for college, I was in attendance for a black versus white basketball game. What? Yeah, there was this group of guys who lived down the street from us. Now, I lived in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood,

but there was a section where it was like a bunch of black people there, and there was also a section on the other side where there was a fair amount of white people. And we were playing basketball one day at one of the white kids' houses. And a group of the black guys came and they were like, okay, we got next. And somebody was like, hey, let's play whites versus blacks. And they didn't let me play, which is why I remember.

I was very sad. Because I was asking them, what team do I go on? Because I'm Mexican. There's no Mexican team out here right now. Who do I get to play with? And they made me just sit and watch. And it was not that much fun. Neither team cleaned you?

Neither team. No, they already had their group. They had their group of five. And the white guys got blown out. So there you go. Tate, have you ever played a whites versus blacks basketball game? Tate's from Carolina. I mean, he's seen some stuff. Let's just leave it at that. He absolutely has played a night game.

He's seen some dark things. You cut out one of your you established a bunch of ground rules to cut down from the 22. And prerequisite number six was the dunk has to contain at least one camera cutaway during either

the setup or the actual dunk because a camera cutaway is absolutely essential to accidentally making supposed to be serious things look silly which i agree with but that led to you cutting out billy hoyle's dunk at the end of white man can't jump which there's two major flaws with that movie i like that movie less than others one is how bad wes Wesley Snipes is at basketball and how nobody dribbles like that or has a game like that and I just thought he was terrible.

But the Billy Hoyle dunk, I've just never been able to get over. And it was so clearly an 8-foot rim and they so clearly screwed up how high he jumped. His whole head's over the rim. What is he, like 5'11"? So how do you justify cutting this out?

Well, because it didn't have the cutaway. If they would have utilized the cutaway like they did, the Edward Norton dunk we talked about earlier, it's clearly fake. But it looks like maybe it could have been real because they do a shot from up underneath, and then they also do a shot from the top, which a lot of people don't do. And it looks like he maybe got up that high. But, yeah, with the Weidman can't jump one, they stay on him the whole time.

And so you see the distance that is covered. He is barely off the ground before his hands are at the rim. So he's either suddenly as tall as Yao Ming or it's a very tiny rim. You need that cutaway to make it work. What was your reason for cutting out the Marlon Wayans dunking above the rim? Because I can't think of a good reason. He murdered somebody. Anybody who kills somebody, you're automatically out.

I like that you really have strong morals about your best worst dunk. I think it's good. No Nazis, no murderers. Who else gets cut out? Those two guys definitely get cut out. We're also cutting out any children because this is a serious competition. Also, we're cutting out animals.

And after that, it's fair. Fair game. I think animals was a good call. Also, I found out from your piece that Makai Pfeiffer was only 5'9". and they had to use a stunt double to do his dunk, which is pretty embarrassing. Alright, so two left. Your finals were Chip Douglas' up-the-back dunk in The Cable Guy versus Louis Kritsky's dunk in The Super, which raises

the question, who is Louis Kritsky and what's The Super? So explain what The Super is. The super is a movie where joe pesci plays almost a slumlord of sorts and he gets ordered to live in the building that he owns it's a really bad building that he goes to court the judge sentences him to live there for a while and then of course while he's while he's there, he begins to realize, oh, these are actual humans with real needs. And he starts to grow a heart. But during the middle part of the movie, he makes friends with the guy who lives in the building and they invite him to play basketball. And it turns out it ends up being a hustle. But in the beginning of the game, they're letting him make all these shots and stuff. And the first game ends with him dunking

it somehow, even though Joe Pesci is only five five foot four and that one also has a great cutaway and it's also funny because they shoot from the underside and he's dunking and the rim is bigger than the width of his body it looks already ridiculous and he's dunking over like a six eight guy so there you go that's the movie that's That's the dunk. So you think Joe Pesci, who's about five foot three and not athletic and was wearing a wig in the movie, you don't think it was realistic that he dunked? I don't think it was that realistic. It was almost realistic, but not quite realistic.

And then the cable guy, he, he jumps off someone's back, but then ends up about, as you wrote, a good four feet over the rim. Right. Right. Yeah, and he jumps off Jack Black. Jumps off Jack Black. So who is the winner? Who did you have? I know the answer, but tell our listeners.

Chip Douglas wins because all of the other parts are the same. They both do the camera cutaway tricks. They're both pretty ridiculous, but not entirely ridiculous, because I watched videos of a guy on YouTube who's 5'5 and is doing NBA-style dunk. Right. Straight up, cocking it back, real dunk. So a 5'4 guy could presumably dunk.

But the main difference here is the Chip Douglas dunk. We've got him jumping off the back which makes sense if he's going to dunk it. But the fact that he goes up as high as he does 14 feet high up past the top of the backboard would to me say that he already possesses the leg strength

to just do a dunk without jumping off of a person. So the fact that he did jump off a person just barely puts it over the top. Tate, you agree with all this? I agree. I mean, for bad worst, I agree.

Tate, you... I know you hate Tate, but he agrees. I'm on your side, Tate. Tate's maybe he's trying to suck up to you. I don't know what the deal is. All right.

I don't buy it. Congratulations to Chip for having the best, worst movie dunk of all time. I liked your reasons for cutting out animals and Nazis and murderers I think all very fair points quickly

before you go should we talk about the death of the Spurs and your gradual drifting back to the middle yes let's do it quickly because I don't have the heart for it I'm in San Antonio right now we're all commiserating. It's very bad.

You know what's interesting? The Spurs fans, for years, justifiably were like, we don't get enough attention. People don't like us. Tim Duncan is better than Kobe. Why don't people think this? Why doesn't Tim Duncan get more respect? Why don't we get more respect? It was the whole thing. Then the Internet internet as the internet basketball writing got smarter and people appreciated tim duncan and greg popovich and

the infrastructure of the spurs and all that stuff then it started to flip around 2013 and now everybody is pro spurs and always thinking the spurs are the smartest team and they did the right they're doing the right thing i would argue the Spurs should be really criticized for the summer. I think they had a terrible summer and they're worse. They didn't really help themselves from a salary cap standpoint heading into next year or the year after the season. They didn't get Chris Paul. They, instead of just eating the Pau Gasol contract, which is terrible,

they got out of it but then gave him a longer contract so you're going to have to pay him for seasons beyond this year, which I don't really understand. They let Jonathan Simmons go. Their big signing was Rudy Gay, who just blew out his Achilles. Tony Parker blew out his Achilles, so you have two of your top six have blown out Achilles and you already have Tony Parker blew out his Achilles. So you have two of your top six have blown out Achilles. You didn't trade the Marcus Aldridge,

which everyone in the league knows that he's unhappy and that he was a bad fit and he's complaining about Popovich. And you have the Spurs going, if you can't be happy in this system, how do you think we can trade you? Everybody thinks we have the best infrastructure. If you're not happy here, nobody wants you. What is good about what's going on with the Spurs right now? This season is not the good part.

The good part will be the season after. All of the things you mentioned are true, and also I would say they're all the bad things that you talked about are tied to LaMarcus Alters. Because him coming out and saying he wanted to be traded just sort of screwed everything up. For the reasons that you mentioned, how do you not want to play with the Spurs? If you don't want to, fine, just be quiet and let us trade you, and you go to a team and make somebody else miserable.

But once you start saying you don't want to be there, then your trade value drops. Nobody wants to make a good deal. Chris Paul doesn't want to come here anymore. It was all Marcus' fault. It's a disaster. He's already got his house on the market here in San Antonio. He knows it's a wrap. So he is in the running for your least favorite Spurs of all time?

Absolutely in the running. It's him. It's Richard Jefferson. And those are the top two guys oh richard jefferson murdered you guys it was so bad he ate for multiple years he's a bigger more expensive richard jefferson wow it was crazy that they were shopping them like they were going to get a lottery pick for him, I mean, I would argue you'd almost have to take back somebody else's bad contract to get rid of him.

And here's the other thing. I actually think I would trade for him if I was certain teams in the league because I don't know if they used him the way he should be used. I think they tried to shoehorn him in the way that they expected him to bend on his game a little bit and do some things to try to fit in with what they do. I think he just wants to post up from 15 feet away and do LaMarcus Aldridge things and have the whole offense revolve around him.

Otherwise, he's not happy. But there's teams in the league that he could do that on that would be 42-win teams. That's exactly what he wants. And on that would be 42-win teams. That's exactly what he wants. And it worked out well for him in Portland. All of those big championships they got. That was great. They made round two once with him. But he was

really good that one year when he really laid the smack down before Dame Lillard became good and he became threatened by Dame Lillard. But he had that one year where he was like 25 and 11 or something every night for four months. I don't know if that guy is still here.

That was a guy who destroyed the Rockets. I was watching that series with Portland and the Rockets played and he went nuts just against everybody. And that was a guy who I thought was showing up for us. Like, oh, this guy was built to play in the playoffs. He just hadn't had a chance. And it turned out that was the total fluke thought was showing up for us. Like, oh, this guy was built to play in the playoffs. He just hadn't had a chance.

And it turned out that was the total fluke. I realized, oh, he was being guarded by Omar Asik or whoever. And then maybe he wasn't that great after all. But it's too late now. We're screwed for this year. 2019 NBA champions, Antonio Spurs. We got Murray. We got Kawhi.

We're going to get somebody else. I don't know yet. We'reurs. We got Murray. We got Kawhi. We're going to get somebody else. I don't know yet. We're good. We're good. Tate is just laughing and shaking his head. I just want you to know that. Of course he is. Would you rather have Dwight, Howard, or LaMarcus? Tate wants to know. Give me LaMarcus.

Dwight is my number one enemy. Nobody wants Dwight. Yeah, I don't know what they do and the shame of it is Kawhi's probably at his apex right now and you know the team I actually it's funny

to see people pencil them as a top three team I think it's the Warriors one no question in the West no question Houston I think would be the best candidate for two and then I think it's the Warriors won, no question, in the West. No question. Houston, I think, would be the best candidate for two. And then I think three is up for grabs.

And I don't know if we can say the Spurs, quote-unquote, infrastructure is going to be enough anymore because I don't know, when's Parker? Parker's not going to come back until All-Star break earliest. That Achilles always seems to be like a year and a half to a two-year injury and then you got rudy gay too who's the big signing and i don't really see him making a huge impact at least in the first half of the season anyway and then you lose simmons i really like simmons i i was i don't know what's going on with him but the contract he signed with orlando was not commensurate with what I watched in the playoffs. I thought he was one of your best two-way guys, you know? He was fantastic in the playoffs, but he also wasn't a vital part of what the Spurs—

there were, I think, 31 games where he either didn't play or he played less than 15 minutes. And people sort of forget that part because he showed out in the Rockets series. He wasn't super, super important. He was a beloved guy here in town. Well, you know what the problem is, though? Tony's out for a good while. What's the problem? He's the same position as Kawhi. Yeah, that is a bit of a problem.

When Kawhi got hurt and Simmons actually was getting some of the minutes, it became clear. He's just a natural small forward. I think it would have been hard to play those two guys together. When they did it, it was interesting, but I don't know necessarily if that's the thing. He's the guy, the value for him is you want him guarding Paul George and Kevin Durant and all these different types of guys,

but you already have Kawhi to do that. So that hurt some of his value. I was surprised that Orlando was able to swipe in and steal him. Did you sign Dedman or no? No, he left as well, I believe. Tony's injury was the quad, not

the Achilles. Oh yeah, that's right. Blew out the quad. So what's the comeback for that? About six months, they say. So yeah, somewhere around All-Star break. Right before before right after well you know who's you know who's the third seed i think it's oklahoma i'm hoping it's not i'm hoping san antonio holds on a third but i think it might be oklahoma on paper it could be

if those guys figure it out i i've i keep staring at the west trying it just seems improbable to me that this paul george rental thing is going to work for one year. And then I keep staring at the West trying to figure out who could supplant them. And they're probably the safest bet, right? Cause Blake's not coming back for the Clippers until December, the earliest Minnesota will take a little bit to gel.

It seems like Denver will take a little while. You just go on down the line. Everybody talks about how unbelievable the West is, and it's definitely good. But I think from 3-11, I don't know. I think Boston, Cleveland, and Washington are probably safer bets than any team 3-11 in the West. And then Houston, your least favorite team.

We don't know if Chris Paul and James Harden can coexist. I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. Yeah, me too. I'm not positive. I'm not positive. Are you? Right. I'm hoping they don't.

I'm hoping that they don't. I'm hoping they take turns. I'm hoping it's like the beginning of when Dwayne and LeBron were together, and they were just like, okay, you do it now, and then I'll do it, and then you do it. I hope that that's what happens with the Rockets and then they lose to the Spurs in the second round again that's my number one dream

right there but I think by like March they're gonna know what's going on and they're gonna be fucking terrifying yeah there's a checkered history with Alpha Dogs playing together and I think with Golden State one of the reasons it works so well is because Durant

and Curry not only so unselfish but they actually really complement each other and by the end of the season they figured out how to take turns, how to play off each other how to use each other on the high screens and in the finals all of a sudden they're on the right side running these little right side high screens that I'd

never really seen before with Chris and James Harden, James Harden, even when he was on OKC, was always kind of a give me the ball and everybody spread out kind of guy. And Chris Paul is a ball monopolizer. So I'm really interested to see how it plays out. I agree with you. I think they're both smart. But, you know, then you throw in Carmelo, the all-time ball stopper,

whenever that trade happens. I don't know. It's a weird mix. I get the whole USA basketball, these guys figure it out. Why wouldn't they be able to figure it out here? But it's just a strange mix. The West. Yeah, it's weird.

Here's my prediction. I think the Warriors are the best team in the West. I'm going out on a limb. Yeah. Clearly. That's yours. All right. Hey, John Wick 2,

Fast 8, Baby Driver, and now Gene Wick with Charlize Theron coming up. Is this, is 2017

the year of movies for Bill Simmons and Shea Serrano? It is absolutely our year, Bill, and I could not be more excited for Atomic Blonde.

I honestly could not. It's going to be great. I love that people are just catering to us now, these movie studios. Thank you. It makes sense. Follow Shea.

What's your Twitter handle? Is it just at Shea Serrano? Yes, sir. All right. Your book's coming out in October. October.

And you'll be back on before here. I'm sorry about the Spurs. I enjoyed your best movie coming out in October. October. And you'll be back on before here. I'm sorry about the spurs. I enjoyed your best movie, best worst movie dunk piece. Thanks for coming on. Talk to you soon. All right. Thank you.

All right. All right. That's it for the BS Podcast. You can pre-order Shade's book. Just go on Amazon or wherever you get it if you want to be one of the FOH army. Tate's not, you're not allowed in the army, Tate. No, they hate me. I'm not allowed in the army.

The army hates Tate. That's it're not allowed in the army, Tate. No, they hate me. I'm not in the army. The army hates Tate. That's it. Don't forget about Talk the Thrones coming up Sunday night right after Game of Thrones on Twitter.

Go to at ringer. Use hashtag Game of Thrones, Talk the Thrones, or whatever. You will find it all of our peeps talking about it.

Also, speaking of Game of Thrones binge mode, which we did 60 episodes of heading into season seven, they are posting the review of episode one,

season seven, which we are putting on the Binge Mode feed. So if you want to hear Mallory and Jason really go all-time deep dive, break down the show, go to Binge Mode, Game of Thrones. And also,

check out Ringer NFL Show. You do a Lombardi podcast this week? Today. Tate and Lombardi taping today. Because Lombardi's getting in football mode. A whole bunch of great podcasts in the Ringer Podcast Network. Check all of them out. I am back later this week with one more podcast.

And if you missed Jimmy Butler, go back into the archives. Because that was a good one, too. Anyway, thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.