The Bill Simmons Podcast - Jalen Rose on LeBron's Future, the Kardashians/Jenners As NBA Scouts, and 1998 vs. 2018 | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 374)

Episode Date: June 6, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by his old friend Jalen Rose to talk about what NBA players do in Cleveland, Kawhi Leonard's "Pre-Agency," some of Jalen's NBA seasons, the Kardashians/Jenners' impeccable NBA scouting, all-time greats, LeBron's next move, where Kevin Durant may end up in the next few years, Jalen's new morning show schedule, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's just say it was picked apart in an exclusive documentary only on TheRinger.com. Coming up, my old friend Jalen Rose. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. Jalen Rose is in the house. He's drinking chicken broth. What up, dog? Hi, father.

I know we're back. Thank you for having me. Can you explain the chicken broth thing to me? Is this because you're waking up at four in the morning every day? Yes, sir. And what ended up happening initially, I realized I was eating like two or three meals before noon. Oh. Because my body clock was turned around. I wake up at 3.30 in the morning.

That really makes me sad. Usually you were going to bed at 3.30 in the morning. Now you're waking up at 3.30 in the morning. How things have changed, right? You don't even have a kid. I've actually matured. I'm actually responsible. Showing up on time. I still don't even have a kid. I've actually matured. I'm actually responsible, showing up on time. I still don't go to meetings.

I still don't respond to emails. But I'm there when the show starts. I wouldn't say matured. I think it's just a phase. I think eventually you'll be back. I was at the Cleveland Casino last night, you know, because I have a gambling problem. I have to go see what's going on in casinos. It is smoke-free.

You have to pay for drinks. What? And it's super, super clean. And needless to say, I lost $800 in 32 minutes or something. What were you playing? I was playing blackjack, but it's like, it was the wrong vibe. It's like too happy. Well, first and foremost, how can you have a casino where it's smoke-free?

You can't. It's un-American. Yes, totally. And were there clocks in there? No, no. That's un-American. There weren't any clocks. It's supposed to be the vampire vibe.

There weren't any clocks. I didn't see nearly enough hookers. It just, it didn't feel like a casino. It felt like a very nice blackjack place. Let's talk about NBA. Okay, cool. And then we can talk about Cleveland after. All right.

How many times in Cleveland for you? This is four straight finals, right? Four straight finals. I actually was covering the Cavs when they got swept by the Spurs. So each time they've been to the finals, I've actually been here. Plus when you were here as a player. Plus when I was here as a player. All right.

NBA players in Cleveland, what do they do? Because if you're in New York or LA or even like Oakland, San Francisco, where we just were, the players can kind of sneak around and especially later at night. Correct. They know where to go. What do you do when you're in Cleveland? So here's how it works. So when you're in Miami, Los Angeles, D.C., Atlanta, New York.

Atlanta, your favorite. A lot of people's favorite. Those are the cities where you get it in. Right. You're out and about. Those are the places you could take a nap before you go out and kick it. Right. You're at it like you leave at one in the morning.

You're in the hotel lobby getting a cab. No doubt about it. And you're out to try to hang out with your teammates or your friends that live in that city or your homeboys that are on the road with you or to meet new friends. Oh, new acquaintances. Right. Now, when you're in places like Cleveland and Utah and Milwaukee, you either catch up on your rest.

Yeah. You either catch up on your professional meetings and you know your manager your agent or the shoe company or your business and then if you want to have fun you import we've explained the concept of importing before yes and what that means you're basically you're flying in a friend yes spend 24 to 48 hours with you. Correct. Respectfully. Usually not a friend of the same sex. Correct. So that's kind of how it works when you come to Cleveland.

But this is a regional thing now. You're not in Cleveland flying somebody from Miami to come see. Oh, so you're thinking the Midwest. That's not how this works. So you go Detroit? Yeah, you're flying somebody maybe from Chicago. Oh, Chicago's good. They have a lot of options.

Right? Yeah. That's how it works. The proximity. Gotcha. The flight shouldn't be over two hours long or you're not doing it right. And you pay-per-viewing movies, doing all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's killing time.

Don't touch the phone. Don't touch the door. See, I think NBA players read more internet than ever. I think all these guys read every single thing that's written about them. They know all the narratives. Don't touch the door. See, I think NBA players read more internet than ever. I think all these guys read every single thing that's written about them. They know all the narratives. They see all the clips. Like that great clip of JR and LeBron on the bench after regulation in game one. Did you see that?

I have. That three-minute clip. And they're just sitting next to each other. And LeBron's mad. And he's just kind of two seats over. And then he asks how many timeouts there are. Or how many timeouts they had. And Tyler was like, yeah, we had a timeout.

And LeBron has like a seizure. He's just, he did. Oh, my God. Oh, no. And then JR's pretending that he's not watching. But he's definitely watching. And he was almost like, he had that look like, oh, dad's mad at me. Correct.

And then Jeff Green's standing up. And he's kind of looking over like, oh man. And they were done. Like if you'd showed me that clip before the overtime started, I'd be like, wow, they're going to lose by 10 points. But you didn't have to see that clip. You knew once it went to overtime, you know, just the strength and numbers of the Golden State Warriors are going to take over. LeBron already had 51 points.

I think what gets lost in that entire scenario, and we could talk about the block charge call and whether I think the officials should be able to go back and change or review judgment calls. They should not. I agree. But George Hill got to make the free throw. Yeah. So here's what happens in the hub. That was a brick, by the way. Yes. Here's what happened in the hub everybody wanted to give him confidence that he was going to make it so it's like after he makes this free throw yeah they're going to call time out we're going to get a stop and we're going to get out of here with a win nobody thought we was going to be able to come in here and smack these dudes all right let's go and then everybody walk out on the floor and you kind of give george a little high five you don't want to hit his hand and have his hand, you know, stinging at all. You feel like he's

almost an 80% free throw shooter. He's going to make it. So when he goes up and he misses it, it kind of throws everybody off. It threw Durant off. It threw KD off. Correct. KD didn't box out. You know why? Because KD was already set up to be the scapegoat. Yeah. Okay, he had a bad game from the floor. LeBron was dominant. He didn't want no parts of guarding him. So he's standing on the free throw line like, oh no, what are we going to do? Oh, we're going to have more time for another possession.

Maybe I can be the hero. So he doesn't box out. J.R. Smith gets an offensive rebound. If anybody's ever played basketball, I promise. I played four years of high school, three years of college, 13 years in the NBA, probably never got an offensive rebound from free throw. Never. So it was actually a good hustle play by JR. It was. So he gets the ball. He's a right-handed player. KD's out of position. He could have just reversed it and laid it up on

the right-hand side of the hoop. Or flung it back out for LeBron. Or kick it out to LeBron at the top four and three. So I was thinking about the concept of when you blow a game you should have won in a seven-game series, you basically have to now win five of the seven. And the series is still going, but you've blown this. You have this win that you just don't have,

but you felt like you have it. Indiana, New York, 1999. The LJ four-point play. game's over, that stupid play happens. One of the worst calls of all time. If we had the internet back then, I think the internet actually would have melted down. Yes. And you guys have that win stolen from you, but yet the series is still going. But deep down, you know, like, wow, we're screwed.

So did you identify with that? Of course. And this is why teams play better at home. This is why role players perform better at home. It's really a game of emotion that people tend to forget. Of course, it's a game of skill and aggressiveness and talent and all of those things come into play. But the emotional aspect of the game can carry a ball club. And you've seen this happen when teams that aren't necessarily as good as the team that they're playing against,

but emotionally have that drive to win. And so when it works in reverse, you get deflated. It actually happens. You just said, think about what you said. LeBron James was in the huddle. He was exasperated. He's like, oh, I can't believe this. Seriously?

He was really upset. Because he knew that they were stealing game one. Correct. This is the only chance he has to win this series. Correct. Because didn't you feel like he came out for game one like, I'm taking this. No question. I know this team.

I'm not feeling anyone out. I'm winning this game. And they haven't seen me. Yeah. See, that's what ends up happening when you say best team, best player. Like they've seen CP3. They've seen James Harden, who by the way, would have beat him if Chris Paul hadn't gotten hurt. They would have won that. I agree. Houston would have beat the Warriors. So for everybody talking about their ruin in basketball and things of that nature, Houston have. So, but with that being said, LeBron came

out like, I'm about to put the smack down. They haven't seen me. 51 put it up there and they won't go to OT and lose. But they were deflated in game two. Like in the Indiana series you just talked about against the Knicks. That was one play, but that play was the series. And I think we were unable to recover. And they were

a team that was explosive. Now people forget about that squad. They had Allen Houston. They had Sprewell. Like those guys got buckets. Canby. They had Canby. LJ was still playing at a high level. So that

level of emotion does carry. You guys were better in that series. They beat us that year, but I think that play had a lot to do with it. Why don't you really explain why they beat you that year? Because of that call. That was called in by the league, that series. They won because of that call.

They're like, we need the Knicks in the finals. You know what we don't want is the Spurs-Pacers finals. Correct. And that's how we felt because how was it being dubbed? Hicks versus Knicks. Right. That's how that series was being dubbed. That was your best Pacers team.

It was. The OO team came way, we've talked It was. The OO team came way. We've talked about this. The OO team came way closer to winning the title than people realize. I agree. I guess the game for OT was a little bit like this too, like a loss in 2000. It was. That's another one for me.

Like a game you should have won and then it's like, oh man, we left that one on the table. I got another one for you too. That's the game where Kobe had his coming out party. Yes. Shaq files out in regulation. They give it to Kobe, make a couple of buckets. He look over and feel like, chill out, I got this. And another one was 1998.

People underestimate the fact, and we doing these out of sequence. So, 98, we playing against Jordan and the Bulls. Yeah. We were winning by 15 in the second quarter. Which game? Game seven. We was winning by 15. Okay?

We was thumping them. MJ and Pippen. I know you feel like they would have came back to win, but we didn't. No, that's true. Second half, like, they basically... I actually think you pushed them further to the brink than any team that decade.

I'm not counting the magic, because MJ had played baseball. I don't feel like he was in shape for that. But that series, you guys came damn close. And people remember him crossing over Byron Russell, making a shot. We feel like that could have been us. Right. So that's 98.

We lose to MJ in game seven. 99, LJ four-point play. That was a robbery. 2000 is when we actually broke through and made it to the finals. And we've talked about game six in 2000. Some chicanery with the referees. I know.

Yeah, it's like, wait a minute. You look down at the stat sheet. Here's some bad calls in that game. Right, no question about it. It's like, okay, they're not going to call any fouls on Shaq and Kobe. That's just how it's going to be. The levels of bad calls against a team,

the last level is when the guys on the bench are just jumping and running off the court. Like, dude, that thing. Like, no! Like, seriously? Yeah. So I could relate to how the Cavs felt going into game two. That's why I knew they were going to lose by double digits.

I actually thought they were going to rally back and at least give them a game just because of no Iguodala. I think it's just a huge deal. It is. And what happened, everybody in the team missed everything except for LeBron. George Hill played pretty well. Love was okay. But all the other dudes who killed the Celtics in the last round just did not show up. Yeah.

How are you feeling about your Celtics? I was asking everybody a trick question during the year and everybody fell for the bait because I know everybody goes for the headlines. Yeah. So I used to, I was asking people halfway through the season, whose future would you rather have?

The Sixers or the Celtics? Oh, Celtics. 95% of people were saying Philly. Yeah, but people don't understand basketball. Correct. These are the same people that voted for DeRozan over Oladipo for all NBA. Right.

Nobody actually watches basketball. And the reason is because you got Embiid, big personality, great game. Ben Simmons, highly touted prospect. These are anchor type players. But they're sleeping on the fact that Danny H continues to fleece GMs around the league. Not anymore. I don't think anyone's going to trade with him anymore. Think about this.

Brian Colangelo should not have been allowed to attend games in that series. Right. When you've traded Tatum to get Fultz, and one is scoring 20 points, and one is getting DMPs. And he looked like Nicolas Cage, by the way. The Fultz thing was so bad that- He does. The Fultz thing was so bad that they didn't even show him on the Jumbotron to try to get in the Sixers' heads, like in the Boston games. If they had showed like a Tatum montage and then just Fultz sitting sadly on the bench, it actually would have been mean.

It would have been funny. It would have crossed the line. That would have been a go. Actually, I don't want to talk about the Celtics too much, but I did ask. This was a topic of conversation at dinner I was at two nights ago. Who is the next team after the Warriors to win the title? Who's the best bet? Celtics. That's what I thought.

I feel like a homer, but I think they're the safest bet, right? No, Celtics. No question about it. Because you have a full run of Kyrie and Hayward coming back with all of your studs still on rookie contracts and my son Jason Tatum you might as well he's my third child and I love Jalen Brown too I love him as well yeah you namesake you've I mean Jalen is now a more common name than John yeah in sports yes there's more Jalen's than I think than I think anything. Because John was in the Bible.

J-Len's in the Urban Dictionary. But the spellings are different. Yes. That's my point exactly. That's cultural. We take a spelling of a name and we'll flip it like chicken. We'll flip it like potatoes. People are throwing apostrophes in there.

We're going to bang through some questions. Okay, cool. Is this LeBron's last Cleveland week, yes or no? Are these his last two home games? Who will play as a Cleveland Cavalier? No. No? No.

No. I know it seems like the noble thing for LeBron at this point of his career would be to chase the lights in Hollywood and go to L.A. They have two max contracts. He's got two houses there for forty four million dollars combined in Brentwood. But who is he going to play with? He was going to be the first black person to live in Brentwood since O.J. The second. I lived there for a while, too live in Brentwood since OJ. The second. I lived there for a while, too.

I actually saw OJ one time. He's the third. You, OJ, and LeBron. Three black people in the history of Brentwood. Correct. Yeah. It's a great list. But who's he going to play with is the question I ask.

What about Paul George and Kawhi? So here's my thing about Kawhi. You know things with Kawhiaii yes you had the same college coach i always take you seriously when the kawaii subject comes up so i went on first take and i talked about maybe in january how kawaii was unhappy in san antonio yes and this was going to be a lost season and everybody freaked out yeah like what is this guy talking about? And so, unlike the Cavs, however, this is what you can't sleep on. Kawhi got another year on this contract. Yes.

I say the Cavs shouldn't have traded Kyrie with a year left on this contract. So, therefore, I would think the Spurs would behave like me. They would put Kawhi back out there. They should have traded Kawhi, just not for what they got. They should have just kept him until February and figured it out then. Oh, Kyriewhi back up there. They should have traded Kawhi, just not for what they got. They should have just kept him until February and figured it out then. Oh, Kyrie. Kyrie. Correct. But again, you still had

two more years of Kyrie. Well, now you have one. You had this year and one more. I'm going to give you a phrase that you're going to steal for the rest of... How many shows you're on ESPN now? Three. You're going to steal this. Okay. It's great. I steal a lot of your stuff no this one's really good you know how this works you taught me this when we're in a room we're combining putting our heads together yeah whoever leaves the room and

said it first that's theirs this is a great one and i i got this from a reader and i'm sorry i can't remember the reader's name but i'm just taking you stole it from i can pretend i never saw the email pre-agent pre-agent okay so kawaii is not a free agent he's. Pre-agent. Pre-agent. Okay. So Kawhi's not a free agent. He's a pre-agent. I like that. He's using his pre-agency as leverage. Correct.

So basically, I know I'm under contract for another year. But you guys know I'm not going to sign. But if you don't do anything, I'm out. You'll get nothing. I like that. So who are the other pre-agents? Jimmy Butler in Chicago. I know I got two years

left. I promise you I'm not staying. Kyrie Irving in Cleveland. I'm unhappy. Please trade me. He had no leverage whatsoever. He had two years left in his contract. Somehow convince him to trade him for this Brooklyn pick and Isaiah Thomas who had a bad hip and Jay Crowder who didn't want to be there and all this crap. And it's terrible trade pre-agency. I like that. Thank you. I'm going to steal that. You're going to steal it tomorrow and get up.

But here's what I'll do. Initially. I'll shout you out. No question. And then Bill said, and then by July, it's yours. After that is mine.

Yeah. Everybody be like, that's a great term. That's good. Jalen came up with, but, but you're exactly right. But the difference between the calves in the Spurs is how they run

their organization and so I'm not going to panic if I'm San Antonio they didn't panic last year with the Marcus Aldridge correct that's the example I was going to use you allow Kawhi to integrate himself back into our way and hopefully he falls in love with the situation again. They were a great team this year. Without them. They were fine. You always, but here's what happens in the West. We take the Spurs for granted.

They basically won 50 games without Kawhi. They would have won 60 games with Kawhi. They would have been right in the mix for what happened. Kawhi played nine games though. And then he didn't show up for the playoff games.

Yeah, that wasn't a good look. I took that personally. Yeah, that wasn't a good look. If we had the ringer equivalent of, you know, how much do you believe in the ringer and somebody didn't show up for our playoff games who could have shown up and then they were at a Dodger game a week later,

I would have been like, all right, we got to talk. I agree. But that's how you exercise your pre-agency. Pre-agency, yes. Oh, you're stealing this. A guy that doesn't. This is going to be hijacking. Just think about this.

Here's a guy that doesn't say anything, never talks, but he spoke really loud when he was at that Dodgers game, didn't he? During the playoffs. Well, you know, I know this because I live in LA and I've gotten tickets from lon rosen when they have guests of the dodgers they put them right near magic behind that dugout he was in the special friends of the dodgers there you go yeah there's so many like you know how the hall of fame yeah the mogul we saw remember when the mogul that time when uh

when david price was in ESPN? He's like, hey. He's like, hey. It'd be nice. Did the big hug. And got his number on the law. Yeah, he got a thing. He got his cell phone.

All of it was legal, but I'm a huge fan. David Price was a free agent in the year. As it turns out, he dodged a book because David Price has been bad for the Red Sox. How about being a Hall of Fame basketball player? Yeah. One of the top 50, one of the top handful to ever play. That's currently an owner with the Dodgers and running the Lakers simultaneously. So can't LeBron learn from that? Wouldn't that be a reason for LeBron to go to LA? LeBron wants to be the first billionaire player.

He wants to own an NBA team. He wants to have this whole media business. And he goes to LA and learns how to do this from the mogul Magic Johnson. But you can learn all of that from the mogul, but the fans don't want to see the Lakers getting bounced in the first round. See, you notice as a Celtics fan, he goes to the Lakers and chase that money. They're expecting a championship. Can't LeBron get to the finals or at least the Final Four with every team in the week?

No. Look at the team he's in the finals with. That's in the East. That was in the East. You don't think they could have beaten Houston in a series? Who's guarding LeBron on Houston? No. P.J. Tucker? We already saw that.

Trevor Ariza? No. I think LeBron's actually underrated now. He's gotten better. I just think he's a Final Four appearance. His team right now, Jeff Green, who I rooted for, who's been on six teams, George Hale, who Utah gave away, Jordan Clarkson, who had the worst six minutes I've ever seen in my life in game one. They're going down the line.

This team is one of the worst two through 12 teams in the league. Jordan Clarkson, who I want to see have a successful NBA career, is a classic example. And when I watch this, it's something as a player that you hopefully grow out of. He plays like they're not keeping score.

Like he's just playing. And because of that, I would not be surprised if he gets a DNP tonight. I would throw Rodney Hood into the first two minutes of every second quarter because I think he's like a fishing guy. You just kind of throw him into the water and you bounce the reel around for two minutes. And like if he makes it three or goes to the basket once, all of a sudden he might get like 25 in the game. And if he sucks, you just take him out.

But what you're really doing. Unfortunately, their whole team is like that. And I'm going to get back to the LeBron thing too. But what you're really doing with Rodney Hood is taking LeBron from being a power guard, still laughing at you too, to being the actual point guard. Yes. So no heel, no Clarkson.

We're going to play all guys that are six six and above that could do a lot of switching that can make Steph work on deep because that's what he's been doing he's been resting on that end of the floor and to your point can LeBron James always be a final forward contender no not necessarily uh in the west, he can if he's putting up 35-99 every game for two and a half months, which is actually what he's done this year. Yes. If you have a player who's doing that and you surround him with average players, you can at least get through the first round of the playoffs.

Then round two, who knows? I think the Warriors and the Houston Rockets would have beat the Cavs in the finals. Either one of them. Chris Paul or no Chris Paul? With Chris Paul, obviously. So here's my counter with the Chris Paul thing. They had to go to a seven-man rotation to beat the Warriors. They upped his minutes for two games.

And within two games- He got injured. He got injured. Because I was saying, I said this on a podcast a few days ago. You almost have to put him on the John Stockton, Jerry Sloan plan at this point. Right. And just like you're playing 33 minutes. You come out in these seven minute stretches in each half.

And our goal is to keep you healthy first and foremost. The moment they actually like revved his engine, he got hurt. Correct. And I don't think that's an accident. It's not an accident. He's 13 years in the league. He's a point guard. He's short. And he's tough. And he's never really 100% been in awesome shape ever. But you know the one thing... He plays

himself in a shape during the season like Shaq did. But he's 5'11". But one of the things that Chris Paul does that most small guys don't do is he's tough. He was the toughest guy. Him and P.J. Tucker were the two toughest guys in that series. Like, you could put him on Steph Curry.

You could put him on Kevin Durant. Well, he also can get away with fouling, you know, 35 different fouls in the game, but they don't call any of them. Correct, because he's small and he's tough. He's just like karate chopping dudes. No doubt about it. But to your point, though, this LeBron that we've seen has improved without being on a super team.

I agree. He's had to elevate himself. Well, I think he's mentally tougher than he's ever been. Yes. There's an aura about him now that reminds me of what Jordan had the last couple years. Yes, he has that. But we're still not going to have those GOAT conversations. I never thought he had that in him. He took it to another level.

He got a signature shot now. The turnaround jumper over the right shoulder. When you said signature shot, I was like, which one? He's got like four of them. The one-legged. What about the one-legged bank shot? Yes. Going left. The one-legged bank shot. He's got the Jordan turnaround. He's got the one-legged bank shot. He's got the dirt one-legged. He's got

the step-back three at the top of the arc. With the left hand. Step-back with the left hand. I also think... And he's clutch now now he's more clutch than he's ever been you're a left-handed person so you could you could um be the authority on this i think he has the best left hand of any right hand person i've ever seen on basketball court with the exception of the legend i got a secret it's him in the legend in the finals because he's actually left-handed get out of here lebron james is left-handed. It's like a Ben Simmons thing? So is Russell Westbrook.

Really? They're left-handed. Like they write left-handed? They write left-handed. Wow. That was good. So that helps too. So you think Kawhi doesn't go to the Lakers because the Spurs will be-

Why would the Spurs allow that to happen? What if they got Brandon Ingram, Kuzma, and Luau Dang? And Kawhi's leaving in a year. What was the last one? Luau Dang's contract. You got to make the contract. No, no, no. We're not rebuilding.

What about Fultz, number 10, Sarich, Covington? Fultz? Yeah, Fultz is 19. You're going to quit on Fultz? You didn't make mistakes when you were 19? Yes, but his jump shot is broken. It's not broken. Here's what I'll do if I'm the first.

You think his jump shot's broken? Yes. He's 19. I'm not saying it can't be fixed, but it's broken. Now, Ben Simmons' jumper is shot. When you were 19, Ben Simmons doesn't have a jumper. Correct. I don't know what that is.

And he's dating a Jenner. Who has a better scouting department than the Jenners and the Kardashians? So we're jumping ahead. Hold on. We're going to take a break. Hey, long-time listeners of this podcast have heard me rave about Sonos One, which blends great sound with Amazon Alexa for hands-free control of your music and more. Use your voice to play songs, turn on lights, adjust temperature, check news and traffic,

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generate the perfect playlist to bridge the generation gap. Oh, man. I know with my dad, it would just be like Bob Seger, Springsteen, more Bob Seger, and then weirdly Coldplay. Go to fathersday.sonos.com and get 15% off when you create your playlist. The playlist generator expires June 17th. Terms and conditions apply. What a little Father's Day bonus for you. All right, back to Jalen.

We're back. You jumped ahead. I had this on my list. Okay. Because we've talked about this in the past, and since then we've had multiple guys fall prey. Why can't NBA stars stay away from the Kardashians and the Jenners? Blake Griffin goes to Detroit.

She was like, I ain't going to Detroit. She's like, I'm out. I said this on our show that day. When he got traded to Detroit, I was like, that relationship is over. Do you think the mom goes through the jersey sales and then recommends? No, I just think that they do a terrific job of scouting. Like what your Patriots do, what the Golden State Warriors and the Celtics do. They carefully scout who can help elevate their brand. And this is the difference between being an athlete and an entertainer.

We have the media following us. It's different when the paparazzi is following you. That's a whole different world. And that's who they are. That's what makes them a multibillion dollar conglomerate. And so for NBA players, once you jump into that sinkhole, that's no there's no coming back from that. Well, so who when was the one time you had a celebrity? You don't have to say who it was, but there must have been some point either Michigan or after when all of a sudden you had a celebrity who liked you. And there's always that one person when you're early on, when you're a celebrity where you're like, I can't believe that person likes me. This is amazing.

I've made it. And it seems like for Ben Simmons, it's which generous is, is it Kylie? It's Kylie or Kendall, Kendall, Kendall, Kendall.

See, they got a great scouting department. That's the youngest one. Just think about that. Do they have them do the combine or do they just scout videotape? How about this? No, they doing more than combine and videotape. They're actually doing analytics.

Jersey sales. Analytics. Twitter. Twitter following. Just think about this. Instagram following. They probably sat in a room one day and was like, Kyle Kuzma or Ben simmons what do you think both handsome guys they both had terrific rookie seasons one plays at la

but one's in philly and he might be in the finals in a year. You know. They'll be showing you in the stands. And here's the other thing I learned about that whole scenario. If you can't get with the big name superstar, like LeBron James, because he's married, you get next to him. Yeah. So that's kind of how it works. So enter whoever's played with LeBron

that ends up dating R&B superstar. And meanwhile, there's Joelle who's like, I'm available. Any celebrity. I'll take the celebrity relationship. It's no different than when Tom Cruise has a movie coming out and all of a sudden starts dating an actress. Like kind of perfectly timed. Right for like six months before the movie. And sometimes she's actually in the movie.

Yeah. This happens in Hollywood all the time. The Jenners are the first one who have brought it to sports. You know, Kendall Jenner will never be like, oh, she fell for this bellhop at the Crown Plaza in Cleveland. It's just they're in love.

These two wacky kids. Or this backup quarterback. Right. Or this guy that doesn't get a lot of minutes and plays for a team that's in the lottery yeah he's the second he's eric ebron and the lions like soon as we started to say that ben simmons is playing like magic johnson soon as that happened the jenner sent some scouts to send them they sent the scouts to go check it out amazing do all of the analytics.

Let me check out his shoe deal. Let me check out his jersey sales. How many years he got on his contract? Is he a franchise type of player? All right, so let's go backwards. 1993, you're a sophomore in Michigan? 93? What was C-Web's second year?

92? Yep. 1992, 93 season. Correct. Let's take that whole, let's take the Kardashians and the Jenners and bring them to the early nineties. Okay. So you're in Michigan, you're a sophomore, things are going well.

You guys have a high profile and Kendall's in your DMs now. What's up, Jay? I'm going to be in Michigan tonight. You're in. That's it. That's all it would have taken. I'm good. Not even at age 19?

I'm good. Get out. I don't believe that age 19 20 you're speaking examples like those level of examples probably didn't happen oh so you've turned down with the 92 just social media wasn't present so you turned it you you you're always smart enough to stay away. Yes. Yes. I've made a lot of poor decisions in my life, but not with women, but I would with women too. We all have, but the one thing I never wanted to do was just date someone because of what they had. You did always tell me. Um, and by the way magic johnson was another one i remember that having this whole conversation about don't date a celebrity if you're a celebrity you're competing with each other instantly can't work can't make it and now it's like having two point cards and

now i've come full circle and it actually worked out for me with Molly. Yeah, and you fell for the right reasons. Correct. That's true. You did break your celebrity rule. You're a hypocrite, and you're still the pre-trade thing for me. So the only way LeBron goes to Lakers is Kawhi. If Kawhi somehow ends up there.

Or Paul George. Otherwise, the team's not good enough. Or Paul George. LeBron, Paul George, Brandon Ingram, Lonzo. That's not good enough to make the Western Finals. No, no,'s not good enough. Or Paul George. LeBron, Paul George, Brandon Ingram, Lonzo. That's not good enough to make the Western Finals. No, no, no. I agree. That doesn't beat New Orleans.

Houston? I know I was hyperbole, but you know what I mean. Well, let's be honest. If he wanted to actually win the title, New Orleans should be in the conversation. That's what I'm saying. I don't want to see LeBron the mercenary. I don't want to see LeBron the mercenary. I don't want to see him just jumping up and going to Philly or jumping up going to New Orleans.

He means more to the game than just number of rings at this point. Actually, my money would be on him staying. I do think there's a real issue with the owner though. This is how you fix it cleveland you ready for this everything you said that he should go to la for there should be a wink wink deal that he can make that happen in cleveland i get him part ownership of the team oh when he retires yeah hmm you act like the nba allows wink wink deals magic got a 25-year, $25 million deal. You don't think that's wink-wink? See, now you're going to get me in trouble.

Because you know I believe in all this stuff, all the conspiracies. Did you actually think that they felt he would play 25 years? No. What do you get? It was 25 years. That was the only way they get around the salary cap right that was the only way that you can guarantee that he's gonna be a laker forever do you remember when we asked magic that was dr jerry bus who did that deal legendary playboy love him so much and we

asked magic that time if dr jerry and hugh hefner were going after the same lady in the forum club in 1980 who gets her and magic's like was like, oh, Dr. Buss. It was like not even close. No hesitation. No hesitation at all. He was like, it wouldn't have even been a fight. Dr. Jerry just gets it. I love Dr. Buss.

When the Pistons were playing against the Lakers in the finals, Shaq's final year with the team when they lost to my hometown squad, I was working for Best Damn Sports Show. Yeah. Doing pregame, postgame stuff. So he's in his 70s at this point. I watched every game in the suite with him. Every one.

Yeah. It was great. The doctor. I have a new topic. LeBron figuring out a way to play 24- minute halves in playoff games. He's done it seven times in the playoffs. Tonight, we're taping this in the morning before game three. I could see him playing 48 tonight. There's been a couple of games where he would have played 48, but either the game was over and he could come out or they had lost and he could come out.

He's figured out how to pace himself during these games in really, really smart, innovative ways. Like his team shooting a free throw. He slowly walks back to the other side of the basket and kind of hangs out there. So now he doesn't have to run back after the free throw. Oh,

and he blocks Rozier's dunk. He stands on the baseline doing this. Right. And we think it's because he's huffing and puffing. He just doesn't want to run back. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like,'s like you know cherry picking but like whatever that the term is for it's like rest picking he picks his spots he's figured out a science to this have you ever seen this before i'm gonna steal that one too rest picking i like that you can take that but but

here but here's the here's the true thing he actually does. So he's able to guard the weakest offensive player on the other team, which he smartly needs to do. By the way, if LeBron's guarding you in a playoff game, it should be insulting. Like he was guarding David West? Yeah. Like whoever's out there. Oh, I'm the worst guy on my team right now.

I didn't realize LeBron's guarding me. Correct. He does that. The other thing that you have to learn to do and i wish i knew this in college i i i truly believe when i look back at like our collegiate days i personally because i'm only could speak for myself felt like i expended so much energy emotionally like high-fiving and trash talking and yelling and screaming that he doesn't do any of that that saves a lot of energy i watched him i was sitting near the bench in game one

and i think they took him out at one point for like two minutes and i was just watching what he did on the bench other guys are cheering standing up he was sitting like this correct he almost like he was like somebody paused him on a tv yes and he just he didn't even like wipe his forehead he was just completely still like he was like meditating correct it was really crazy i i actually think he doesn't get enough credit for how smart he is with this stuff he doesn't get enough credit for being one of the greatest iconic players there is well no he gets enough credit for that. I think with the under 30 people now they have latched on to LeBron

over Jordan. This has now become a thing. If you're under 30, you weren't there for Jordan. You're like, LeBron's better. Here are the stats. He did this. He did that. That happens in music. It happens in movies all the time. It's happened with basketball. Whoever's the best in my generation is the greatest of all time.

Right. But I think that ship has sailed. MJ is clearly the GOAT. You think the ship's sailed? It seems like LeBron's gained momentum. No. It hasn't sailed for me. Well, here's where he's gained momentum.

I shed a tear this year, and I want to ask your opinion. Yeah. He passed the Hall of Fame mogul on my list. Yeah. That happened for me two years ago. It happened this year for me. He passed Bill Hall of Fame mogul on my list. Yeah. That happened for me like two years ago. It happened this year for me. He passed Bill Russell for me this year. Because when you take 15 straight years, no injuries, just year after year, game after game, month after month, just a certain level of excellence.

But then the fact that he's actually gotten better in some ways the last couple of years and during a stage when he should have been doing this. So you're a basketball historian. Yes. You wrote the book of basketball. I did. I feel like LeBron is now number three overall. What do you think?

I have him too. Kareem. I have him over Kareem. You do? I do. Wow. I haven't gone there just yet. I haven't gone there. It's fair. Kareem is the most underrated superstar we've ever had. Kareem was also an alien, which I don't think a

lot of people realize. He wasn't a human being. Correct. LeBron might be an alien. And so the thing that gets lost about Kareem because of his personality and, you know, he wasn't warm and fuzzy with the media. And he came at a time where, you know, being socially and politically conscious was something that he needed to do. Yeah. And because he was at the forefront with Bill Russell and Jim Brown and those level of athletes, he didn't get that level of love from the media that I saw happen late in his career. Like with Ali. Yes. Ali was a lot more loved right before he passed than he was when he was in his prime, when he was in his 80s and even the 90s.

That didn't change until he really lit the torch for the Olympics in Atlanta. But I don't think LeBron has passed Kareem. Not yet. I think that happened for Ali sooner than that don't you no i'm older than you because when i when i ali was my first favorite non-boston athlete so it's about 1975 but it was after he beat foreman human being he was the most exciting person in my life with an open mind and an open heart as it relates to sports yeah Yeah. You're the minority in that, at that time. Well,

you know, I, I idolized all black people when I was a little kid. I loved everybody. And, and David, you and I watched all the same shows. No,

we did. We did. And David Jacoby prayed to a Larry Bird poster before his basketball games in high school. Larry Bird was the greatest. Legend. So we got to get a shout to him in there. Do you think basketball is harder to play than it was 20 years ago or easier?

Easier. Or the same? Easier. Because JJ Redick said there's more running than there was 10 years ago, and that part's harder. No. Because you got to jump out on threes, all that shit. No. Anytime you can play longer is easier.

What do you mean longer? Anytime players now are playing 17, 18, 19, 20 years that are the top players, it shows you how the game has gotten easier. But do you think that could happen because of the dieting and the training and sleep and hyperbaric chambers? All of that is easier. All of that makes it easier. Blood transfusions. Just think about that. Stem cells. Right. All of that helps make you more. Chocolate. Right. Like that makes it easier. Yeah.

Like how many years did Jordan play? 13? I mean, he really played, he played 15 actual seasons. Two with the Wizards. But he took the rest when he played baseball. This is, to me, this is the number one argument for LeBron over MJ. If you're going to make it. Two with the Wizards. But also for those of us old enough to remember the story, it was a lot deeper than just basketball for MJ and his retirement. You know, he had to deal with the death of his father and so many other things other than that took place on the court.

You know, people were questioning. Everything he dealt with is the same stuff LeBron has dealt with his entire career except for the death of his dad. But also. But like the same attention and people picking him apart, that's been LeBron his whole career, except for the death of his dad. But also- But like the same attention and people picking him apart, that's been LeBron his whole career. LeBron James wasn't sitting in casinos till three, four in the morning

going playing playoff games the next day. Three, four in the morning? I was always being generous. It was like eight, nine in the morning. Correct, correct. What are you talking about? MJ didn't sleep. MJ and Iverson, nobody seems to know if they slept.

They might've been vampires. Those are the two guys where it's like, yeah, Iverson, he played. BJ Armstrong told me a story about MJ. He said, if you watch one of the finals games in 93, when they played the Suns, that Jordan is actually, he's so dark in the game because he's sunburned

because he played 36 holes of golf that day and then played the finals. And he's like, if you look at him, he's sunburned. So played 36 holes of golf that day and then played the finals and he's like if you look at him he's sunburned so i don't know which game that was but there's one game when he's like just way darker and so nobody would be able to do that now and also the the other thing that may anytime you could do something for longer that means it's easier and so what jj is referring to as it relates to running yeah there's more running because it's less physical. Well, so that's the counter would be like, no, no, if LeBron played now, he'd have Charles Oakley and Anthony Mason and all these dudes like clotheslining him. Bill Embiid.

That floor is hard. Yeah. And when somebody is knocking you constantly to the floor, it's taking miles off of your legs. It literally does. LeBron's the first athlete I've ever watched who, when he gets hurt, I assume he's fine. These other injuries where, like, oh, LeBron sprained his ankle and he kind of, like, shakes it off. It's like Terminator 2. Correct.

Like the Incredible Hulk. Yeah, if LeBron, like that play when they threw the long outlet pass to him and the two guys went underneath him. They bouncing off of him. Yeah, if LeBron, that play when they threw the long outlet pass to him and the two guys went underneath him. They bouncing off of him? Yeah, but if somebody had hit him the right way and his leg had actually come off his body and gone 20 feet, he would have picked it up and put it

back on. Like the Terminator. Like that's an artificial leg. He's going to put it back on and be like, I'm fine, I'm fine. He's never been hurt. It's amazing. And think about this. If you're LeBron James, the only thing that isn't perfect is his hairline. Right. Other than that, I agree with you.

And so he's going to be able to do, he's going to play until his son makes the NBA. So that's on his radar. And I don't think enough people have made enough of that. I've been saying this for a couple of years. I added it up. I think he figured it out. Five more seasons. Yeah, I think he figured this out, though. Like, eight years, the kid was probably three.

Yeah. He probably made a nerve shot, and LeBron's like, I'm playing until he's in the NBA. Yes, yes. By the way, that kid's really good. I know he is. I try not to get carried away with seventh grade AAU videos, but that kid's good. Well, this is what I do. This is how you can still have your fandom.

I just don't, like't put it on social media. When I see the clips of the players in middle school or stuff like that, I just don't put it on social media. But I follow to see what's happening. And he's an amazing basketball player. That kid can pass now. No question. Nobody passes in AU.

He's got good court sense between the legs, behind the back, shooting threes. So you don't think if you played now. I played 20 years. Yeah, but your NBA career should have been longer. You left some NBA years on the table. We've talked about this. I know, but I had a second career I wanted to pursue, and it worked out for me. I could have played a couple of more years, but I felt like it was a good opportunity for me to go full-time and work at ESPN.

The last few years there, you weren't in the Pilates studio at six in the morning. Correct. You weren't having egg white omelets and swearing off casinos, all that stuff. You lived your life. Correct. You were okay with it. Absolutely. But Mike D'Antoni still should have played you in that sunset.

I know. You would have made a couple threes. No question. And let me tell you the funniest thing about that game. So Robert Ory, Hip Check, Steve Nash, Amari and Boris Diao gets up off the bench. And as a teammate, you always think about what you could have done different. So I'm like, maybe I should have jumped up and held those guys down or whatever. They're adults.

It happens. But after the game, Mike D's my chance. Yeah. Now all of a sudden he's gonna see it after that game i was doing calisthenics went back when we flew back to phoenix i went down to my apartment i was on the treadmill jumping rope i'm gonna get some minutes tomorrow got to the gym somebody after you some cheetos you're like no no cheetos for me today. I'm getting some minutes. I'm about to make an impression in the playoffs. DMP.

Yeah. I was like, I'm done with this. Taking a break to talk about Full Sail University's Dan Patrick School of Sportscasting. Yeah, the legendary sportscaster Dan Patrick from Sunday Night Football, The Dan Patrick Show. The big show on SportsCenter with Keith Olbermann way back when. He's teamed up with Full Sail University to offer an accelerated bachelor's degree in sportscasting. Full Sail

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To learn more about Full Sail University's Dan Patrick School of Sportscasting, go to fullsail.edu slash Bill Simmons. Back to Jalen. Quickly, here are the odds for LeBron. Houston plus 150 next season. Philly plus 300. Cleveland, you don't understand gambling, so just not. Cleveland

plus 350. LA plus 400. San Antonio 12-1. Clippers 18-1. The Rockets are the favorite right now. They should be. That feels lame. It's a lame move for him to go to houston so i don't like that why would it be lame to go to houston but it's not lame to go to la houston just feels like oh we already made team with 65 wins um like kd went to a team

with 73 wins katie was katie wasn't the second best player of all time. And how about this? I predict and you can ask him because... And KD was just trying to get away from Westbrook. And KD's your new co-host on this program. Y'all do a terrific job. I had to replace you. Yeah, I see. I see. You upgraded. KD ain't gonna play. It's not an upgrade. It's just different. It's like a second wife. I guarantee you.

KD won't play three or four more years with the Warriors. Three or four more years maximum. That was my next question. Three or four more years maximum. That was my next question. Three or four more years maximum. I was going to ask you. Three or four more years maximum. Is KD on the Warriors in November 2020? Two years and four months from now.

I say KD wins three rings with the Warriors, and then he leaves for larger market. I know a lot of people think LA. I actually feel New York. That wouldn't shock me. Especially if his business partner became the GM of the Knicks or something.

By the way, the Knicks should do that. We had Rich Kleiman on the podcast last week. No free agents going to New York. By the way, the Knicks should do that. We had Rich Kleiman on the podcast last week. No free agents going to New York. That place is like damaged goods now. The only way you can get one is you have to make a deal with somebody who's attached to one of the major guys. You taught me so much about this industry, and I'm forever grateful, my brother. And one of the things you taught me is when you have information, people will take it and run with it like it's theirs. I promise you.

I said it to a microphone yesterday around 10.30 a.m. that I didn't feel like KD was going to be on the Warriors in three or four years. And I've seen people run with it like it was gospel. Like they never heard me say it. It fascinates me. Yeah, that's the media in 2018. But I truly believe-

It's like when you steal pre-agency for me tomorrow and get up but you're my brother oh what a great point yeah but i your family i gave it to you no question but here's the thing about kd that i want everybody to pay attention to yeah kd ain't that limelight type of dude have y'all paid attention to what he's wearing to basketball games and how he goes to the podium and not cutting his hair and not shaving his beard? He's not the guy that, in my opinion, wants to go to La La Land. He's the guy that wants to be grimy and prove that I can build something. And what better place to do that than New York City? They haven't won a championship since 1973. The day he signs to play with them, if it happens, he's already a legend.

When you go sign with playing with the Lakers, you ain't no legend. Yeah. You got to deliver. The other move is OKC. And you could dominate the East like LeBron did. I could see him going back to OKC too. But you just said he didn't want to play with Russell. Well, maybe Russell's not there.

Or maybe they're at different stages of their careers. No, he ain't going back to OKC. You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. I'm just putting it out there. KD. There's a different GM, a different owner. Who knows? And so what happens when you do what we do for a living?

When you're projecting things, it's not like anything malicious. Like we love the Warriors. We love KD. KD is another host for you on this show. It's just me projecting what I see and what I believe and the information that I'm hearing. Do you remember when we did the 2014 playoffs together when we were on TV and it was LeBron was going to be a free agent. And it felt like you and I were the only ones really giving it a chance for him to go back to Cleveland. We did a, we did a Bill and Jalen preview in October, 2013. And the Cleveland section was all about, can they get LeBron back? And people are like, you guys are nuts. Now I've

been wrong a million times. So have you you but that was in the air and you could feel it at the finals and in um i think heading into game five in miami i think we either said before the game or at halftime this could be his last we did a whole riff like it's kind of amazing this could be his last game and people got mad at us people got mad at us. And then he came out. Remember we said in the postgame, we said, that's crazy the Miami fans were leaving. That might be the last time they see LeBron James. It's amazing they didn't recognize the moment. It was like, you guys are on drugs.

Ain't no way he going to leave South Beach. It's so beautiful here to go back to Cleveland. And then he did. I wonder if it's these guys, how they switch teams now. I see it with some of the people that work for the ringer and just in general, the millennials, the under 30 people where it's just constantly, they have a choice for everything, right? They don't have cable. It's like, what do I want to watch? I just go on Netflix. I'm hungry. I'll order Postmates. I need a car. I get Uber. I get Lyft. I want to hook up with somebody. I'll go on Netflix. I'm hungry. I'll order Postmates. I need a car. I get Uber. I get Lyft.

I want to hook up with somebody. I'll go on Twitter. Swipe, swipe, swipe. Oh, I like that one. This is just the world we live in now. And I wonder with NBA, if it's a little like that too, like, I'm not that happy anymore. I'll go there. Oh, my contract's up.

I'll play for the Lakers. And maybe that's just where we are with basketball. Maybe people just float around and there's not going to be people that stay for 15 years. Correct. And what you're talking about is the microwave generation versus we grew up in the oven generation. It's the swipe right generation. No question. And here's an athlete in KD who's going to go down as one of the greatest players to do it, has a chance to be the NBA's all-time leading scorer, he and LeBron, he didn't necessarily want to leave OKC. What happens in that scenario is I have to eliminate the he doesn't have a ring, but he's an MVP conversation. Because what we've done as fans and media, all we do is count rings. That's it. And so when we talk

about all-time great players, you never hear him talk about John Stockton. You never hear him talk about Karl Malone. So, I don't know. They were two of the greatest players to do it. I don't know if I agree with you. All we count is rings.

I honestly think that that was a life move for him. I don't think he loved the style of basketball he played because he talked about this in the pod and I actually believed him. I think he thought there was a higher level of basketball out there. And I think he just wanted to be in a different city and have opportunities that he just knew he wasn't going to get in OKC. Correct. And then winning a title was a bonus. After he won that title, I think he thought, oh, no, I don't take any more shit.

And people were like, yeah, you chased the title. Nah, the only reason you won is because you joined that team. And I think that's one of the reasons he's been kind of angry this year. Correct. I can feel it in the two pots I did with him after the title where he's like, what else? I just outplayed LeBron in the finals. You guys are still giving me shit? Like the whole reason I went here was to prove that I was the best player in the league and I outplayed LeBron in the finals.

What else do I have to do? And there's like just this little brooding anger in him this year that I didn't see last year. Think of a couple of things that have transpired since he won the championship. He's come out and talked about how I thought winning the championship was going to mean everything to me. And it didn't. It doesn't. Because as you start to get older, it's the score of the game and it's a game of life. And you realize that regardless of what you accomplish, people can still move the goalposts if they want to. Yes.

And now he understands that. So what does he do? He creates burner Twitter accounts to fire back at people who try to slander his name. Then that gets exposed. Then he comes out and talks about how he really left to validate himself with his peers. Yeah. That was about championships. So now, in my opinion, when he gets three championships with the Warriors, it's like I satisfied myself. I validated myself with rings.

I took care of my business with Golden State. Y'all good. I came in, we saw and we conquered. Now I'm about to go somewhere where they haven't had that success where I can be the lead dog. You left out one thing. I think the business stuff is a big deal for them. And that also. Correct. I think these guys are now measuring themselves as brands against each other. And it's all about multimedia companies now.

It's like, hey, we're making documentaries. This is my uncle. He's running the place. But some of them are actually doing it well. And I do think it's become competitive with that. What do you think? These are quick ones. And then we'll...

And it wouldn't be any hard feelings if he left the Warriors, in my opinion. LeBron's biggest second round of Cleveland mistake. Oh, easy. These last four years. What do you think his biggest mistake was? Oh, this is easy okay not figuring out a way to make it work with kairi that's how i felt too easy because that's the difference in this series here's the problem though he blessed the kairi trade when he thought

they're getting paul george and carmelo and eric butzo correct they're like would you sign up for that and lebron was like so and then the trade falls through and Kyrie's like, you tried to trade me. LeBron's like, no, I didn't. He's like, I know you blessed that trade. I know you did. I know what you did. Let me tell you something sneaky that happened this year. I said it on Jalen and Jacoby to show that you've oversaw.

He mispracticed the next day. People sleep on that. LeBron, when that trade fell through and he realized that he wasn't getting Bledsoe, LeBron mispracticed the next day. A lot of people slept on that and people were trying to wonder why. And I came out and spoke to a microphone

because he was upset that they didn't get him. People don't understand that they have a kinship through Rich Paul and the representatives, and they work out together in the summer. So I've talked about for years, if somebody was going to get moved for Kyrie, Eric Bledsoe probably would be one of the guys in play. But this is one of the – LeBron's Achilles heel. He doesn't get injured. He's a magnificent basketball player.

I think he's second best ever. Bad judge in talent. Guess who's not great to have on your team? Eric Bledsoe. He sucked in the Celtics series. You know who wouldn't help the Cavs this year? Eric Bledsoe. Just a me-first offensive point guard who doesn't make anyone else better. I think he's

lazy on defense. He would have fit in with the rest of these dudes. And LeBron wanted him. When you look at all of Eric Bledsoe's physical attributes, you feel like he should be a consistent performer. But he's been inconsistent. No, it's not appeared. The one thing that he doesn't do that you must do if you're going to play with LeBron is spot up and make threes.

That, to me, is why it really wouldn't work with Bledsoe because he's not going to be a secondary ball handler. It doesn't work out on TV. The catch and shoot type of player. And how many times has his name gotten slandered this offseason with the Drew Bledsoe thing? I know. With Terry Rozier. That's bad.

Don't feud with the Boston fans. Next subject. Kendrick Perkins. Settle down. You're not a basketball player anymore. But I ain't mad at him. But that's why they signed him. They knew he wasn't going to play, Bill.

They signed him to be a guy in the locker room, to be a guy on the bus. To be a guy who's angry on the bench? Yes. For those that weren't paying attention, he was not with their team last year or this year, and he was with them in the playoffs. He should be bouncing at nightclubs at this point. That's what he's doing. He's LeBron's sponsor. He's basically theirclubs at this point. That's what he's doing. He's LeBron's sponsor.

He's basically their bouncer. Yes. That's exactly what he's doing. It don't matter if it's Drake. It don't matter if it's Steph Curry. He's got this mean look on his face. He's looking at IDs like, no, get out of here. Leave.

It's Kendrick Perkins. His nickname should be The Bouncer. I like that. He stuck his legs out. Now, if you watch that clip when Curry got into it with him, Perkins is sitting back like this. No question. He was lou legs out. Now, if you watch that clip when Curry got into it with him, Perkins is sitting back like this. No question. He was lounging.

But the guy who's inbounding the ball is right here. And Perkins is like this, which already is a competitive kind of a dick move. And then Curry's over there, doesn't move his feet, and just keeps them in place. And really did almost trip Curry. He did. One of the things I like about Curry is he doesn't take shit. I think he has this reputation as being soft.

Like when LeBron pinned his block at the end of game one when the game was over. And Curry, it was on the basket I was sitting at. And Curry walked right over. He's like, get out of here. That's garbage. You're better than that. It's because he got a baby face. And what people sleep on about Curry and Klay, their fathers were NBA lifers.

They grew up in the game. Steph know how this work. He not taking crap off none of these dudes. And so, regardless to whether it's Perkins or LeBron, he like, I'm two-time MVP. And we about to thump y'all this year.

And as you always joke, there's no actual NBA fights. No. It's a hold me back league. Hold me back. Hold me back. Step a player like, hey, man. It's like, what are they going to do?

I'll throw down? Correct. Tristan Thompson pointing to the. I was after the game. We were where the players were going in the press conference. Draymond and Tristan Thompson were like four feet away from each other. I was like, what happened? Should I get some popcorn?

Are you guys fighting? One of them got on that Gucci first slide with the heel out, and the other one got on a short suit. And they were like, hey, man. But yeah, but I think Curry is a lot, I think he's a lot feistier. And what you said about the son of a professional athlete, so this is World Wide West last year.

I always call him before the draft to see who he likes. And last year he's like, everyone's sleeping on Mitchell. He's like, Mitchell's going to be great. I was like, all right, why? He's like, son of a baseball player. He's been around locker rooms his whole life. He's been around the culture. He knows the game.

He'll come in as an adult. He'll get his business done. He won't be impressed by any of this stuff. That guy's going to be great. What happens? Mitchell comes in. He's better than he was in college, works his ass off. And it's like, I do wonder when they scout these players, why they don't look at stuff like that. Like Steph was around the Hornets and all these different Del Curry teams his whole life. He saw everything. In the gym. And as the son of a former player that I never met,

Jimmy Walker's number one pick in the 1967 NBA draft, here's what has changed for those players. Initially, it was tougher for the son of a player to actually follow in their parents' footsteps. Right. Because... I even remember Al Horford is like, oh, Tito Horford's son. Yes, correct.

Now it's like, it seems like there's so many sons that we haven't noticed. So here's what's changed. Before being the son of an athlete worked against you because it was almost like you were still trying to separate yourself from the excellence of your parents. But then you become crabs in a barrel where everybody trying to jockey with you. I'm just as good as Michael Jordan's son. I don't care if Magic Johnson your father. But what has happened is the specialization of the game. Yeah. I have the level of finance where I could get the coaching, the nutrition, the ability to play the game 24-7,

and now they're getting a level of practice and exposure that the average player just doesn't get that grows up on the west side of Detroit like me, that's just in the backyard playing. There's only one son who still is treated with a level of bias in the nba who's that you can't get this one a son is treated with a level of bias but there's so many sons of former players austin rivers he got lucky he takes a lot of shit he got lucky yeah he got lucky because once he got traded to the Celtics, that was his time to be out of the league.

Yeah. So fortunately for him, not only did he get traded, but he got traded to a team where his father was the coach and GM and believed in his talent. And also felt guilty that he wasn't around for most of his childhood. But then he put it. Here's a $12 million a year contract. Don't feel bad.

But to Austin's credit, he put him in position, but he still had the ball. Yeah. And he did go out and improve his game. He improved his handle. He improved his shot. He got tougher. And he actually earned his money.

So you're in on Perkins as the bouncer. Yes. You don't have a problem with his behavior? Not at all. Okay. That's the only reason why they signed him. Did you think they signed him to play? He was working on his jump hook three hours before the game.

No, no, no. Yeah, he was doing foot. He was doing. No. I actually would play him. I would put a uniform on him. You put a. So what he.

Well, it's like in hockey. Like in the last four minutes, if it's a 20 point game, you send Perk out there. See. It's like sending the fourth line. No. You know, that doesn't exist in today's game. Physical intimidation. This is another reason why it's game. Physical intimidation. This is

another reason why it's easier. Physical intimidation does not exist in the NBA. That's why you see more celebrations. If it's Cavs by 18 with four minutes left tonight. What are you going to do? And I send Perkins out there. If I'm Steve Curry, I'm like, Curry, you're out. What are you going to do? Durant, get out of here. Sit on the bench. But now what the ref's going to do? They know why he's in too. They're going to call it so tight that he's going to be right out the gate. Steph Curry, overrated, underrated, properly rated. Properly rated.

I feel like it's smidge underrated. He's properly rated. I think he's the top five player. He hit nine threes in that finals game. I didn't even know it was the record until like four hours later. I was like, oh, Steph hit some threes. Anytime.

No, he actually hit nine threes and nobody's ever done that in the NBA finals. I was like, what? Yes. He might hit 15 threes today and I wouldn't be shocked. He's been MVP twice, one unanimous. But he needed this kick ass, like assuming this plays out. We think Warriors in five. Warriors in five, Steph MVP.

Right. He probably should have won the MVP in 2015. I get the Iggy thing. Or LeBron. Or LeBron. He only led the series in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. I don't vote for losers for my final subject. See, you're one of those.

No, I am. So if it goes seven and LeBron does what I just said and Curry averages 20 lost you were the mvp of a team that lost no you're the most viable loser no no this is the problem with with society this is the problem with the voters like you no this is the problem jerry west is the only guy that could ever win mvp john team? He should have won. John Havlicek should have won. John Havlicek was great that series. That was stupid. People didn't understand what they were voting for.

This is what I see now. So do you think Jerry West shouldn't be the logo? So you're not going to call him clutch since he won in seven in finals? I'll go further than that. I think Jerry West, if I do my book again, I'm putting him over Kobe. I did a Jerry West deep dive. Jerry West's 14 years were like incredible. I did a Jerry West deep dive. Jerry West's 14 years were incredible. I know.

I said today on Twitter, if you took him from a time machine and put him in today, I think he's the most equipped to actually do well in today's NBA. Rick Berry too. Oh, Rick Berry would have been amazing. Don't sleep on Rick Berry. He'd ball in today's game too. Wait, I forgot. What were we just talking about before then? We were talking about Warriors

in five. Steph needed this. So we think the Cavs win tonight? Yes, by double digits. We think they're probably going to get some calls tonight. They will get calls. Can you explain to the fans how angry, in a good way, the Cavs fans are? There's an angry atmosphere. You go on all these arenas.

Everywhere you go, it's like the fans think you hate their team. Yeah, it's, this is how you know you're good. Hey, Jalen. Hey, you didn't think there would be the finals, did you? You're a LeBron hater. Hey, Jalen. Like, I love LeBron. Didn't think you'd be here, did you?

Right. But here's how you. Why are you so angry? You're in the finals. For anybody that wants to work in media, this is how you know you're good at your job or not. It's like being a referee. Yeah. When you say something, half of the people are going to be mad at you and half of the people are going to like that you're talking about their favorite player or team.

That's just how this works. I remember the 2013 finals was my first real experience with this. We went to Miami first. Everyone's mad at me because I didn't think Miami was, I thought Indiana had a chance to beat Miami. Hey, Simmons. Hey, didn't think you'd be here, did you? And then we go to San Antonio and everyone at San Antonio is like,

hey, are the Spurs boring? And I'm like, I can't be rooting against both teams. It's impossible. What is this? Iran versus Iraq in the 1980s? And that's why- We're not rooting against anybody. And so that's why it would seem like

fans in Boston are happier because you guys have had a lot of recent success and championships to celebrate. And likable players. As opposed to Cleveland, where they won one professional championship in 50 years. Well, the Cleveland fans- So they take it personal when people talk down on their team and their city.

They hold a grudge on me for this specific reason. After they won the lottery the third time in fourth years, we were on TV with our coach, Doug Collins, our life coach. No question. And Cleveland wins the lottery again. And they come back to us. And I kind of lost it for like a minute. You did.

I'm like, we need to change the rules. Yeah. You can't just be incompetent year after year. And we keep rewarding with the number one pick. This is idiotic. They just won the number one pick three times in four years. We have to fix this. And all the Cavs fans felt like I peed on their moment.

Well, they did it to- I'm sorry for being honest. I thought this was America. Well, how about this? They did it to themselves because you remember who they took, right? They took Wiggins. They took Anthony Bennett.

No, that was the year before. Oh, that was the year before. Remember? So part of my argument was the year before they took, they basically blew this pick. They should take an Oladipo. We told them that the whole draft. We did.

Then they suck again. They get another pick. And it's like, so we're just rewarding for wiggins. Sorry for Jabari that year. Concede for Embiid. This is one of the great what ifs though. If Embiid doesn't get hurt in the workouts.

He goes number one. He goes number one and arguably maybe should have gone anyway. He goes number one. And at that point, do you even trade that for Kevin Love? Maybe you keep Embiid. You keep him. And then he gets hurt the whole time. And now LeBron's like, why would I come back?

Yeah, you just got to deal with the fact that. It's a good what if. Yeah. He would have went number one, no doubt. He was amazing. Yes. Kevin Love, does he need a new team? Yes.

I think in order for LeBron to stay, Love would go. All right, we're taking one more break. One last break to talk about Quip. Most of us are brushing our teeth wrong, not for long enough, or we forget to change our brush on time. And that's because brands focus on selling flashy gimmicks rather than better brushing.

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go to getquip.com slash BS right now, you'll get your first refill pack free with a Quip electric toothbrush. That is your first refill pack free at getquip.com slash BS. All right, before we go, I had to ask you about your new morning show life. Okay. So you're waking up at 3.30. I wake up in the morning at 3.30. I try to be productive. So I do a little calisthenics, work out a little bit, take a steam shower, leave the house at like 4.30 because I need to be in the building by 5.30, our production meeting. And our production meeting is like 30 minutes, not 15 minutes, 5.45. And then 5.45 to 7, I just do show prep and do whatever.

Then you're on the air for three hours. Then I'm on from 7 to 10. Then you're doing Jalen and Jacoby right after? Then I do J&J right after. How many nights or how many days a week? Monday through Friday. And then you're also on Countdown. I don't do J&J on the days I have countdown.

That's probably a good idea because then you'd be on ESPN 24 hours a day. But then you have with countdown, sometimes these playoff games are done at one in the morning. I take naps in the afternoon like I did when I was a player. Is it all right that I'm a little worried about the schedule? No. I don't like the staying up late and then you're waking up early to a morning show. It's like they're trying to kill you. Now, let me tell you the trick.

This is the easiest my schedule has ever been. Come on. I'm about to tell you why. You got to remember, when I first started working for ESPN, I was doing shows like NBA Tonight. That came on at 2 in the morning. I still would turn around and do Mike and Mike the next morning. It's the exact same thing with no offseason. Now I have an offseason.

But now we have better HD. You guys are tired. So now I have an offseason. I'm always looking out for Beatle too. So like, just think about this for me though yeah when the finals end you're good

you're good for like five months for five or six months I'm off work at 12 noon that's never happened this is gonna be the first time that's happened for me and you and Molly

this is it we're good she gets off at 12 is there gonna be a wedding I get off at 12 hopefully do I have to carve out a wedding? I get off at 12. Hopefully. Do I have to carve out a weekend? Hopefully. I'm not missing your wedding.

No, you can't miss it. I'd even skip my daughter's soccer tournament for that. If I'm so very lucky, hopefully. Why don't you ask her right now on the podcast? I'm not judging the get up show for nine months and I don't think anyone else should either. Okay. Thank you.

Well, it's just like you try shit. Correct. You don't know what's going to work. It's just amazing to me like how within two months everybody has to decide on something. And it's like, well, the ratings. It's like, first of all, Eastpan isn't looking at the ratings every day they want they wanted to get whatever the show was ready for football season and then the run is from september all the way through june so at least wait until i would say november when

football and basketball are going at the same time and if the show view if everybody doesn't realize exactly what that show is at that point, then you can start writing about it. Well, here's the thing that happened. And I realized being a part of the Get Up launch was an eye-opening media experience for me. And it almost reminded me a lot of being a player. Yeah. And here's what I mean.

When you're starting a popular morning, and by the way, there was a lot of talk about what the show is or what the show isn't. The ratings have actually been good, but that's not going to be something that people talk about because it's positive. But let me just tell you the point I'm trying to make. ESPN is considered like the worldwide leader. Everybody wants to find a way to chip at the armor of the most powerful conglomerate in sports. Yeah. So when you decide to start a new show in this climate with the president that we have in office, it's easier to blow your dog whistle and draw a line in the sand. So now you have people on one side saying, oh, why do you have these liberals on the show?

You mean free thinking individuals that actually care about human beings to give back to their community and want to see us come together as a country? And so that's one of the dividing lines that people try to do with Get Up. The other dividing line is the divide and conquer thing. There are people that are jealous of the show, whether people want to be on the show, whether it's talent, whether it's working on the show, it's a competitive industry, just like sports, everyone. And it's okay. And so that's when you see other things get leaked, like how much money people make and stuff

like that. Because what that does, it says, regardless of what we make in this industry, to the average fan, it's going to be too much anyway. And so that's another line to divide. Oh, they're investing so much. And then lastly, we got a new facility. So now it's, oh, you got a new facility. Oh, you're paying this. Oh, these are free thinking people. They have the nerve to be woke. When somebody tells you it's a problem being woke, they're really telling you something that's so underlined that you should check yourself if you're following that line of thinking. Being woke is a positive thing. Being conscious is a great thing.

And so those were kind of like the three or four things that I saw happening with the show that that level of competitiveness plus jealousy and envy of us starting a new project, it all spilled out at once, but it sustained itself. I love working with Greeny. I love working with Beatle. I think the show is going to be terrific, and I'm excited to get up and go to work every day. I would say, well, I'm going to put the odds maybe four to one that you and I are doing the Bill and Jalen NBA preview in October. I think I'm going to make it work.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. Are you breaking news? No. This is one of my summer projects. Okay.

You're coming back home? No, I'm not coming home. But I think I can collaborate on certain projects maybe down the road. That'd be great. Public would love that. Number one on the list is could we collaborate on a Ringer, ESPN, Bill and Jay on NBA preview? I'm pretty sure. That we put either on YouTube or on the OTT app or something.

And we just do it. We did that five years, four years ago. And you know what else? I just have to get into your schedule because you're you're on three shows already it's here's the thing i i it's a multi-task industry just think about this you're sitting here right now working with the ringer and hbo yeah that's just how this works yeah when you watch espn there are multiple people on multiple shows look at lebertar look at will bond look at steven a it's a multi-task business for everybody that wants to When you watch ESPN, there are multiple people on multiple shows. Look at Lepotar. Look at Wilbon. Look at Stephen A.

It's a multitask business. For everybody that wants to get into this industry, it's actual work. I missed doing the previews. Doris Burke calling games. We were really good at those. Doing sideline. Doing studio. That's what this is.

Doris is the new LeBron. What can't doris do that that's but she's more it it's so people people look at it a little bit different when it's for me when it's me because i always find ways not to be on monday through friday shows yeah so now that i'm on a monday through Friday show, people think that I'm working more. This is actually easier for me and I'm actually working less. We did, when we did the 2014 preview, we filmed the first 10 and I got suspended and then the series died. We have unfinished business. Jalen Rose, you got to go.

I love you, brother. Love you too, buddy. Appreciate it. All right. Thanks to my man, Jalen Rose. Thanks to The ringer.com thanks to ZipRecruiter don't forget to go to

ZipRecruiter.com slash BS thanks to Grasshopper the entrepreneur's phone system Grasshopper lets you send and receive calls and texts

from your new business phone number run your business from anywhere whether you're a small business owner an entrepreneur or whatever you are

respond to clients quickly with Grasshopper's mobile app go to grasshopper's mobile app. Go to grasshopper.com slash BS to get $20 off your first month. That is grasshopper.com slash BS. And thanks to Sonos. Remember Father's Day coming up.

Sonos and Spotify have you covered. Go to fathersday.sonos.com. Get a code for 15% off when you create a custom Spotify playlist. You can send to dad. Simply select your favorite artist that you were born. Do the code for 15% off when you create a custom Spotify playlist. You can send to dad, simply select your favorite artist that you were born, do the same for dad. Bam. Spotify will generate the perfect playlist to bridge the generation gap. Go to fathersday.sonos.com, get 15% off when you create your playlist. That playlist generator expires June 17th. Terms and conditions apply. So this is our second podcast of the week.

I will have another podcast at some point this week. I promise you. Unless I get killed tonight at the Cleveland game. We'll see. If it's any consolation, I did put a small wager on the Cavaliers plus four and a half tonight. Maybe it wasn't even that small. I actually think the Cavs win.

I'm predicting a Cavaliers win tonight. It is not a reverse jinx. I think they win this one. This is the one for them to steal. And if they can't win this one, not just for this series, but that is a bad sign in general. Anyway, back on the BS podcast later this week. Thanks again to my man, Jaylen. Talk to you soon.