The Bill Simmons Podcast - Jason Bateman on His Crazy Career, Plus Mallory Rubin on Football and 'Thrones' | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 404)

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by the Mother of Dragons, Mallory Rubin, to discuss the anticipation of the final season of 'Game of Thrones,' future spinoffs, NCAA football, MLB, and rookie NFL quarterbacks (1:57). Then Bill sits down with actor Jason Bateman to talk L.A. Dodgers fandom, being a child actor, 'Ozark,' 'Arrested Development,' binge-watch television, sports movies, and more (27:13). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Football stuff galore as well as some pop culture stuff. We have The Ringer podcast network there, a whole slew of things. You know what's on there. If you haven't gone to theringer.com at this point, I don't know what to do with you. It's a great site. Check it out. Coming up, we're going to talk to Mallory Rubin about her favorite time of year, college football, pro football, World Series, all that stuff.

And even the Game of Thrones rumors, whispers might be coming back. And then Jason Bateman. Wow. I don't know. I don't know how this finally happened, but it happened. Jason Bateman on the BS Podcast. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I'm here with the Mother Dragons, Mallory Rubin. This is the time of year when I get concerned about your health.

I'm doing great. There's two times a year. One is right before football season started when baseball playoffs is coming. Yeah. And the other is when Game of Thrones happens, which fortunately and unfortunately, there's only seven left. Six left. Six.

Six hour and a half. Six really long ones, though. Hour and a half long each. Feature film length. Do we know when these are happening? Think how much John Danny fucking we're going to get in those episodes. Oh my god. So much time for incest.

If they're saying it's the most incest-y year we've ever had on the Thrones. I can't wait. Turn it up. Come for the Thrones, stay for the incest. So it's six hour and a half long movies basically. I don't know that we know it's exactly an hour and a half, but yeah, all the reports are know that we know it's exactly an hour and a half,

but yeah, all the reports are that they're in essence going to be like movie length episodes. And we think April. Like May? I don't know. Spring, you know, spring, summer. Why does it seem like you have inside information? Me? Certainly not.

I assume you do. No, I don't. You're our barris, master of whispers. I wish I did. If it were up to me, it would launch in July when we need content at TheRinger.com. That would be great. I think that they should wait until they have enough set with the spinoff that they can roll right in from the conclusion, the season eight, stunning season eight finale.

And right to the spinoff. Right into the spinoff. Now that will probably require waiting too long, but you need at least like a substantial spinoff trailer ready to go. You want to keep everybody engaged. You can't risk losing interest even for a moment. The spinoff's definitely happening. A hundred percent. More incest-y or less incest-y? Where is it going to rank? Maybe dial it back and then surprise us in season three with just a very incest-y year. Great question. I think it'll be lighter on

incest initially because you know it's going to be up north long night it's hard to it's hard to fuck when you're wearing furs unless you're john and egret and you go into the cave very malodorous under those furs just tough they didn't mind you know everybody smelled bad back then so they're all nose blind that was just a normal thing i was gonna ask you about that you just lose your sense of smell after a while right well i always think about the hygiene of that moment you know john's first experience with cunnilingus obviously he was a natural the lord's the lord's kiss was second nature to him but it's like when was the last time you had cleansed yeah probably never very

dumb the hygiene this is something i love to bring up when i watch the show with my wife just how bad had cleansed? Yeah, probably never. Very tough. The hygiene, this is something I love to bring up when I watch the show with my wife, just how bad the hygiene must have been. Yeah, really tough. Even going back to like the 1800s, the hygiene, not great. Yeah. They were, you know,

dipping in for a swim, trying to cleanse here and there, I guess, but even so. I mean, they thought the bidet was a good idea. Oh, man. We know better now. You're in a house with a bidet,

you know. You know, yeah. We know better now. You're in a house of the bidet, you know. You know, yeah. Game of Thrones sense. See, I have bad eyesight, so I have an enhanced sense of smell. So I think I just would have died. Between bad eyesight, enhanced sense of smell,

and the Game of Thrones air, I'm just dead. Yeah, you need your women clean. So what show has captivated you without Game of Thrones then, I'm just dead. Yeah, you need your women clean. And allergies. So what show has captivated you without Game of Thrones then? You know, I have been quite wrapped with Bachelor in Paradise, I have to say. It's actually one of the only things I'm current on right now.

Yeah. We're taping this on Tuesday afternoon, so we're going to miss whatever the big surprise was on Tuesday night. Something surely will happen tonight. They're losing me a little bit. It's too much at this point of Colton and Tia and Chris and Tia and Chris and Crystal. I just don't really care about those people.

Yeah. What other shows? You know, Insecure is wonderful. Well, Chris gave himself a nickname. Silly Goose. I don't think you can give yourself a nickname after age 23, I would say. Kyle, how old are you? Too late.

24. So if Kyle came into work and was like, call me Goose, I've been thinking about it. To be called Goose from now on, we would be like, what's going on? I got to be honest. I think Kyle could pull it off. Could you pull it off, Kyle? So maybe 25. I'd put a little more thought into it than Goose, but yeah.

What if he was like the caveman? Can you call me the caveman? No, there's too many Goose, but yeah. What if he was like the caveman? Can you call me the caveman? No, there's too many of the caveman. You don't want to be the caveman. Whatever. Also, I thought you said caveman at first. And I thought that was a direct reference to what we had just discussed.

And I was like, this is officially an HR violation. That was the caveman. So Bachelor of Paradise. Yeah. I love that. And you're doing binge mode Harry Potter. We are. And just binging the hell out of Harry Potter. I love Harry. And you're doing Binge Mode Harry Potter. We are. And just binging the hell out of Harry Potter. I love Harry Potter.

It's my favorite thing in the world. Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Halo, baseball, and The Ringer. They're my truest passions in life, you know? And I thought The Lord of the Rings. I do love The Lord of the Rings. Or is it Lord of the Rings? The Lord of the Rings. The Lord of the Rings.

The Fellowship of the Ring. So I like Thrones, but I don't like the other two. So obviously something's wrong with me. Bill, I've got a podcast I'd like to introduce you to. But you know I have an obsessive personality. I can't just casually dive into Harry Potter. Well, there doesn't need to be anything casual about it. Let me show you the light.

How many of these have you done? How many HPs have you done? We are through the fourth book. Yeah. And we're about to start the Order of the Phoenix bundle for the fifth book. And so we're... And that gets to the movies? Well, we're doing the movie after each book.

Okay. College football season, what are you most excited about? I'm going to be honest with you. I don't want to talk about the... I'm out. Yeah, I don't. I just can't do it. I'm out. You're out of college football. I'm done. This was it?

Yeah, it's too much. It's officially too much. Now you know where I've been the last 30 years. I mean, part of it, obviously, I'm a Maryland fan, so the Maryland story is just like it's just gutting. It's really terrible. I thought the column that Bauman wrote was fabulous. Everybody should read it. That was excellent. I like the Sally Jenkins

one today. Yeah. And they explored similar themes like this, the things that are happening in college football. It's not, it's not actually, we're not even in the realm of sports. This is what happens in war when generals and politicians are abusing power and it's it's disgraceful so it's really it is really hard for me to invest in like an i'm an excited fan way right now i mean you'll be back you like it too much you'll be back i do love it it's hard for me right now to feel excited i i i do love the sport so well who would have thought the urban meyer story would be the second most depressing and horrifying story of the summer?

I know. That is also terrible, though. Yeah, that's a rough combo. This just seems to be what's happening with football now, where the off-season of whatever sport is just all these terrible things. And then the games start. I felt this last week when we were doing the

pod, I guess, on Wednesday and saw that the Monday night game of the first Monday night was Lions-Jets. I was like, football, I'm back. There's just this animal instinct just to love football when you know it's actually going to be on the television. That's definitely true. I think we all feel it. But I do think it's increasingly difficult to separate the off-field storylines. I mean, partially because they're increasingly on-field storylines. You know, we saw that with the NFL last season.

Yeah. The way that politics entered the game, it's impossible to ignore. And in many ways, we shouldn't ignore it. But it fundamentally changes the fans' relationship to the sport. I think it has to. Yeah. Like the Richie Incognito story I saw today. Yeah.

That stuff just bounces off me now. And I don't say that lightly, but it just, it's like every week there's another story. It's almost like when you watch the news and there's some awful story and it's like, oh, that's awful. And you just expect there's going to be, I'm not saying this is a good thing.

Right. But with football now, it's just awful story after awful story. And this guy, this former NFL player, and this terrible thing happened. And I think that's the scary part. It's becoming kind of not immune to it, but just bouncing. But there's an element of desensitization. Yeah.

Sheerly the product of sensory overload. And that is, like you're saying, that's actually kind of a tragedy because all of these things are worth our attention and time and taking seriously. But when there's such an endless barrage, you don't even know where to look. You don't even know what is really worth prioritizing or focusing on on a given moment. Like the fact that the fact that people, you know, say about Urban Meyer, oh, he's lucky that this Maryland thing happened, that's disgusting. But it's also a human reaction to think that because

you can only process so much of this at once and it's just an endless inundation in football right now. So, tough summer for Maryland sports. Brutal. Because the Orioles thing is, this is the worst Orioles team of all time and they traded

your favorite player I mean they traded you had a near breakdown in the winner offices I was despondent yeah they traded my my

sweet son Manny Machado to the Dodgers and they traded everyone I mean Scope Britton seeing Britton in pinstripes

is very tough for me Britton's good I just yeah that was that one really hurt. He was hard to hit in that Red Sox series. I really respect Adam Jones for staying put,

and I can't stand the backlash that he's gotten because he's made a choice that he thinks is right for his life and his family. Why is he not entitled to do that? So he decided to stay in Baltimore and play for a 40-win team because he likes living in Baltimore. He so he vetoed a trade to the Phillies. Yeah.

And, you know, was partially like they don't need me. Right. You know, he's been a legend in this town for a decade and he's going to go be a reserve player. He has, you know, no connection to. And look, I think he has a point when he says that players fought for the right to earn these contracts so that they could decide where they wanted to be like they're not things and objects and i think we forget that every time trade season rolls around and just the nature of like capitalist thinking yeah locks into place in our minds and every

player is just a cog in the wheel it's just another piece on the board for some rich white guy to move and i really respected the fact that he said i'm good actually like i will get to make my decision in the off season about how i want to spend my time and what i want to do with my life and i decided that i was going to be here when i signed that six-year extension and so i'm going to be here and no one can tell me otherwise i love that people are mad at him about that yeah he got a lot of shit. Well, because there's a contingent of people who say you're inhibiting their ability

to finally rebuild. Like you were standing in the way. You were standing in the way of them getting a return. Oh, the left-handed reliever they might have had four years ago.

Yeah, I mean, exactly. It's ridiculous. Baseball is stupid. How are you feeling about the Red Sox? Best team in baseball. Best Red Sox team of all time? I hate peaking in August.

Oh, my God. I'm just trying to say stuff not to jinx it. I will say that the coolest thing about this Red Sox season is Betts and Martinez being three spots apart from each other. Yeah. Because Betts comes up and occasionally there might be someone on base and it's exciting but most of the time there isn't but then uh if he can just whatever if one and then all of a sudden jd comes up with like two or three guys on and it's like every two three innings it's really great it's not much different than when poppy and um manny were feeling at the same time but

it's just there's such different players. I think that's been the cool part. And then Benintendi has been really fun too. That's how you know that JD Martinez has really worked his way fully into the heart of Boston fandom. You're just calling him JD. I call him Julio Daniel sometimes in my house. I scream that out.

He's been great. He's clutch too. Like I really feel, I really feel like he's going to come through when, when he's in a spot's clutch too like I really feel I really feel like he's gonna come through when when he's in a spot it's like surprising he did double play the other day where it's like nobody out second and first it's relatively big inning and he just double play I was like oh my god he failed it was like one of those it's incredible I remember when when the deal went through and Zach Cram wrote the the reaction for the ringer and his angle was in essence the Red Sox just got

Giancarlo Stanton but cheaper yeah and that ended up being right which is incredible yeah I can't believe that's real life it's very just very annoying to me but it's crazy about this team it's the best Red Sox team ever, at least from a win standpoint. But they threw away the Sandoval contract and they threw away the Hanley Ramirez contract. It's actually not the best version of what this team could have been. No. They've thrown $35 million out the window from the previous regime. The best version of this team, had they just gotten any decent starter,

that they ended up having to trade for one, and it's fine. I mean, I still judge this stuff by what's this team going to look like in a seven-game series in October. And, you know, the sixth, seventh, eighth inning guys, that one Yankee game when they actually got to Chapman in the ninth inning on Sunday night, but they went Britton and then Batantis in the seventh and eighth. And it was like, wow, how are we getting on base?

Yeah. I mean, in the playoffs, the Yankees, should they advance, you know, beyond the wildcard game, they're going to be able to go to the pen in the fourth or fifth inning if they need to. But the starters might not be able to even get them to where they get to. The ace thing is the most amazing thing to me. Yeah.

You in on the idea of an A's Rockies World Series? Is that in play? I mean, yeah. The Rockies are in it in the West. And the A's are in it in the West. So it's not impossible, which is wild. So we're in that keeper league together. Yeah.

And I made this big trade with somebody in June. And it was lopsided. And. And I made this big trade with somebody in June and it was lopsided. And Lewis, who we made the trade with, he had to waive somebody to fit all the players in the trade. I'm like, who are you waiving? He's like, I don't know, probably Fierce. Like, we'll throw him back in the deal to us so we make it even numbers. And now Fierce is like the third best pitcher

in the American League. He was literally going to be waived. There was no, he was on Detroit. There was no real sign whatsoever he was going to be competent. And they have him and they have Edwin Jackson, who feels like he's 58 years old now. I picked him up in one of my leagues, and that's been really fun. It's this sneaky batch of starters.

And then this closer is having one of the all-time great closer seasons. And it's just another classic Billy Bean team. It's amazing. We're like, how did this happen again? I still think that the Astros will get healthy and they will take the division. I mean, Springer's back now. When Altuve comes back, if McCullers can get healthy,

I don't know. The Astros just have so much talent that I can't imagine them actually not winning the division. Or it's one of those seasons where everybody keeps saying, they have so much talent. And then all of a sudden their season's over. And you're like, whoa, this is crazy. They didn't make the playoffs?

Maybe. They're relievers. I really let them down. And we have some of them on my team. Like, Davinsky was absolute lights out all time last year. And this year has been banged up and sucked. They've given up home runs and late innings and stuff. I've been watching

them and monitoring them just because I don't want them to make the playoffs because I think they have the most talented team. The Yankees I'm weirdly not that worried about. Really? Yeah. I don't think they're very... They have a lot of injuries too right now. I don't trust the starters. To me, the Indians are much more dangerous.

I'm more concerned about them. And then nationally, you follow that more than I do, but it just seems like that's still a crapshoot. Oh, yeah. I mean, I still think the Dodgers are the best team. The fact that they tried to claim Harper on waivers today is discombobulating to even contemplate like what that lineup

would have looked like. Yeah, but how could how would that have worked? I don't know. Why would the Nationals? Well, I mean, they're doing a full sell-off. You know, they so

Matt Adams But wouldn't you rather have the number one picks for when he leaves versus just letting him go? I mean, ultimately they didn't let him go. But, you know,

I think the Dodgers and the Cubs are still the best teams. The Cubs getting Daniel Murphy for basically nothing is sneaky good. The Hugh Darvish thing is a huge bummer. you know, I think the Dodgers and the Cubs are still the best teams. The Cubs getting Daniel Murphy for basically nothing is sneaky good. The Hugh Darvish thing is a huge bummer. You know, not that they had gotten anything out of him,

but officially knowing that he's not going to be back and, you know, that he's done for the season and isn't going to be a factor in their postseason rotation is a problem for them. I don't know. I think as long as Kershaw is healthy. I mean, maybe. They were one of the better teams.

You know, I judge all my teams by how they played the Red Sox because I just watch Red Sox games. I was really impressed by Philly. Yeah, they're good. They had good pitching. I just like them. I believe in them more than the Braves at this point. Yeah.

I think Aaron Nola is creeping into one of the five best pitchers in baseball conversation, which is that. I really thought Kevin Gausman would be the LSU pitcher we'd be saying that about. But alas, here we are. Another guy, the Orioles straighted away, by the way. And you're excited for Lamar Jackson. I mean, it's like literally feels like all I have in my life at this point is just hoping that Lamar is good.

I need him to be good. I'm so all in on this. Partially it's because I'm just so ready to be done with the Joe Flacco era. I'm just ready to move beyond that. The penance of that Superbowl when you're just paying the tax. Just paying the cost. A heavy, heavy, heavy toll every year. But also I just am so excited about the idea of a team that has been this painfully vanilla and conservative for so long, finally having an injection of genuine excitement and energy on offense, a player who can actually create.

It's just been so long since the Ravens have had that at all. And I think in general, the rookie quarterback class is just really exciting right now. I hope a lot of these guys are good, other than Josh Allen, of course. It does feel like it has a change, Josh Allen. It does feel like it has just be a transformative. It does feel like it has to just be a transformative class. Yeah. On paper. Baker's looked amazing.

Baker's fabulous. Great hard knocks performance. Oh, my God. Incredible. Did you see the picture of him posing with the... I think it was a Rolls Royce and a Tiger. Might have been a Bentley. It was a fancy car and a Tiger,

and he was shirtless. Just great stuff. We might have enough good quarterbacks to share, finally. Maybe. Even Tyrod is good, and Mahomes might be good. We might have enough good quarterbacks this year, finally. Maybe. Even Tyrod is good, and Mahomes might be good. Oh, I'm all in on Mahomes. Yeah.

Former pitcher. Good stats for Mahomes. He's got that baseball arm. I'm all in on Mahomes. I'm all in on all the stats about how it doesn't really matter who Andy Reid's quarterback is, that person produces. I think the overall quarterback equation will, in some ways, come down to whether Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson

come back at full health and also obviously Andrew Locke. If those three guys are back and healthy then we are in a potentially transcendent sports moment at the quarterback position. We still have Brady. Nobody's allowed to be touched and you're not allowed to touch a receiver over the middle. Jimmy G out there touching anyone he wants? Cut that Kyle.

10 for 12 in the preseason this weekend how are you feeling about Jimmy G as a Pats fan did Jimmy T touch somebody well the porn star we don't have to cut that well I don't want it to sound like I'm saying he's assaulting someone when really he's just out there

having an active dating life Jimmy G could get anybody he wants saw somebody on Pornhub and took her for some pasta. The thing that worried me more about the porn star was when he compared himself to Vince from Entourage, him and his buddies. That was genuinely concerning. And for the first time, I was happy the Pats traded for him.

But that died down very quickly. Now I wish he was on the team again. Interesting. Because it turns out our quarterback's 41 and we have no backup. But are you worried? You got Hoyer. We're not worried because the division's so bad, but it does feel like one of, it reminds me of,

it has the seeds of the, it was like 09 or 2010 when they made the playoffs just because they were in the AFC East and then they just got crushed. Yeah, I mean the East is a- By your Ravens. Debacle though. Like unless you're really all in on Sam Darnold and the Jets immediately, the Dolphins suck.

The Bills might be the worst team in football. So there's a path to the playoffs regardless. There's no, there was an article today on ESPN.com about how there's been a lot of Browns action. Yeah, yeah. Which makes sense because I don't know if I did it on the podcast or just with Sal trying to figure out who to bet, but you just go through the other teams.

You're like, well, the Ravens. Terrible. Yeah. The Steelers. Well, the Bengals. And then you just kind of keep coming back to the Browns. Like, well, they do have this guy, this guy, this guy, and this guy. But then they're the Browns.

That's why you don't do it. I mean, the Browns do have a lot of talent. I don't know. The coaching situation is so fraught. That's why you don't do it. I mean, the Browns do have a lot of talent. I don't know. The coaching situation is so fraught. That's why you don't do it. You just need to watch Hard Knocks for 30 seconds to see. I made this same comment on a Ringer video that's coming out soon,

but it reminded me of like the Tywin Lannister, a real king doesn't need to say he's a king idea. Like when Hugh Jackson sits at the table and constantly has to tell Todd Haley and his coordinators, like, I'm in charge. If you have to keep saying that, that's a perilous situation. It was eye-opening, especially. I was watching through the lens of somebody who's in charge of people.

I'm in charge, by the way, Mallory. But to say that to your inner circle is just so out of control. I just couldn't believe it. It's embarrassing. It's like, what are you doing? I know. It's tough. You need these people.

This is the only way you're going to succeed. And you're upbraiding them and telling them you're in charge. Who are you? It's tough. And the body language in that room was really tough. I think not since Dave Campo going back 12 years can I remember a worse Hard Knocks coach performance. It's really tough. I was just watching it.

Wow. How is that guy in charge well the players are the ones who are coaching like we saw Jarvis Landry give the speech to try to rally the receiving core and then Tyrod pulling his head coach aside and saying hey if you like get

if you film them and then you show them the thing like Tyrod Taylor should not be the one who has to tell Hugh Jackson how to run a meeting. Yeah. Though I do like the idea that this has spawned. This is increasingly gaining steam on the internet. That Tyrod should become head coach and Baker should be the starting quarterback.

Oh, interesting. I love this idea. Like Paul Walker in Varsity Blues. By the way, we did a live Varsity Blues and advance the the biggest flaw in that movie for you was Lance Harbor pretending that he invented the RPO there's like the quick quick quick

mention of the college tape that they've been studying but it's very fleeting it's very fleeting there's not enough time given to the true roots of the Aries we're coming up on the 20 year anniversary of that one some good football movie anniversaries It's very fleeting. There's not enough time given to the true roots of the Aries. We're coming up on the 20-year anniversary of that one.

Some good football movie anniversaries coming up. Wonderful. We're due for a good football movie. I don't know what's happened the last five, six years. Maybe we should make one. Maybe the ring will have the right one. Mally Rubin, we can hear you on Binge Mode. Harry Potter, you have a football? Do you know who you're picking to win the Super Bowl,

or you're too cool to pick a Super Bowl champ? Definitely not too cool. I've never been accused of being too cool for anything. We haven't thought about it much. Let's see. Super Bowl. I haven't come up with one either. It feels like over the next two weeks we're going to have to really all

look at this. I'm saying this now, but it's a gut reaction and I refuse to be held accountable for this. Minnesota? Minnesota. Yeah. See, they're getting a little— But I, like, hate Kirk Cousins, so I can't believe I'm saying that. I'm all in on Diggs, though, and that defense.

Listen, after Nick Foles held the trophy last year, anything's possible, but I just find the Kirk Cousins thing hard to believe that he could be a chain. Yeah, I'm not into that. But look how far they got with Keenum last year. And if Dalvin Cook is healthy this year, man, that offense is going to be incredible. Ironically, quarterbacks might not matter that much anymore. We saw Keenum almost make it.

And yet. We saw Foles win a Super Bowl. We saw Jared Goff look like the Rams are going to make it at one point. It's just, these guys are all so wide open now. Nobody can touch the quarterback. Maybe you just need to. I mean, look, Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl, so quarterbacks haven't mattered in quite some time. I think you owe Joe an apology. Sorry, Joe. He brought you a Super Bowl, the happiest moment of your football life. Listen,

I'm very grateful for that Super Bowl. I'm also ready to move on. Both of those things can be true. Ray Lewis, he cheated for you. He covered himself with deer antler spray. He sinned for you to win you a Super Bowl. I'm kidding. Ray Lewis didn't really do that. Well, he did get caught with deer antler spray. And his suit from that night never was found. Hall of Famer, Ray Lewis.

Great sport. Mallory, thank you. Thank you. All right, before we get to Jason Batemaneman Turn this season into a fistful of epic wins By joining a Yahoo Fantasy Football League Yahoo has spent the off season making serious upgrades To enhance your experience Upgrades like easier scoring

New trophies and a buttery smooth app experience So when you come to play fantasy football on Yahoo The wins are as epic as the season is long To get in on the wins You have to get in on the season. Yahoo Fantasy, the only app where you can manage all of your season long and daily fantasy teams in one place. Create or join a league right now at yahoo.com slash Simmons Fantasy Football. Now here's Jason Bateman. He's coming up. I've met him a few times, but he has never been on this podcast and I don't know how that happened or didn't happen, but it's happening now.

Here he is, Jason Bateman. Jason Bateman's here. I don't know how this has never happened before. We've circled it. This sounds like pillow talk at the end of a really great first date. How come we've never slept together before? I don't know. Why didn't we ever do this? I really enjoyed dinner. Yeah. I feel like you've been in my life my whole life.

Maybe that's another reason. Now you're giving me an erection. Well, let's drop the bit. Yeah. Yeah, we've run into each other a few times in the Kimmel circles. Yeah, but we've seen you across the room. You're somehow in the Kimmel universe. Yeah, how did that happen?

I don't know. I don't know how that happened to you. How did it happen for you? He hired me. Mine was much more organic. He literally hired me from Boston to write for his TV show in 2002. I was the first writer he hired other than Cousin Sal. On the Jimmy Kimmel?

Yeah. I moved out here to help launch his show with him. No way. Yeah. So I worked for him for 18 months and became an honorary member of the circle. How was the exit? Was it smooth? Was it amicable?

It was sad. Because I really wanted to write a column. And they hired me away from the column. And at some point, that show is all-en all encompassing and you can't kind of juggle it. Yeah. Right. You can't slow down at all on that.

You've got to stay ahead. You've got to be intuitive on all the issues. Right. And you're just in, you're there, you're there in the editing bay till 10 o'clock working on some bit or something. So anyway, I finally asked him the other day, I said, I said, what's your day? What did you do today? Like, how does it, how does it work over there?

And he kind of walked me through some stuff. The part that was really interesting to me is that the writers come in at like six in the morning and basically have, have a lot of the show written by, I don't know, nine or two. Six in the morning? He might have lied about that. Well, well, he was looking, he was looking at stuff at nine. Yeah, true.

So stuff and stuff that couldn't be written before six in the morning because you want to be as current as possible. You have to wait until the entire news day is over yesterday and then write all the stuff for tonight. Well, then that news day is faster and faster. Right. When I was there, it was crazy because we didn't even have YouTube yet. So if there was some video we wanted, we would have to go on some weird internet server and search for the video. And we had this person's whole job was to do that. And were tapes still around back then?

A lot of tapes. Oh, yeah. All that DVD. Three-quarter inch was gone, right? Some DVDs. Yeah. I mean, people would hustle over DVDs for him to watch. So at some point, I was in his office because he needed somebody in his office because so much was going on.

So I became the writer that hung out in his office all day, and these people would hustle over DVDs. Now they must send him the links, I'm guessing. Did you become chief of staff? No, no. Were you the one they had to talk you become chief of staff? No. Were you the one they had to talk to to get to him? No. And Molly came in and said, listen. No, Molly was an intern when I was there.

Or an assistant, yeah. She was Daniel, the EP's assistant initially. Really? She was one of those, you could always tell something good was going to happen with her. She had definitely a lot of charisma. She was the of those, you could always tell something good was going to happen with her. She had definitely a lot of charisma. She was the one most likely to have the conversation about, how come we've never done this before?

You see the way he brought it all the way back? Yeah, that was nice. That first year was crazy though because he didn't know what the show was and neither did any of us. And then you kind of figure it out over the course of time. That's always been a fantasy of mine. I've tried to respectfully imply that I would like to do that without implying that it's easy because it's clearly not.

But he certainly makes it look easy and the routine and the rhythm of it seems somewhat simple in that it is, it can only be as good as that day. And it's just, just like a baseball game or, or, or, or basketball game. You know, there's another one tomorrow. And, and it's only an hour long. It's finite. By the way, that's the perfect analogy. It's, it's major league baseball. Yeah. You're going every day. Oh, I went out for 4 today. Oh, I went 4 for 4 today. Right. And you just kind of ride the wave of the season.

Yeah, you can hit that reset every time. And you're constantly talking to people that are at least mildly interesting, even if they're outside of your interest circle. They're certainly current or relevant, I guess, by virtue of them being on the show, right? You could have done that in another life. I don't know. I mean, I think I would still like to. There's something that I love about routine.

And I don't know. I like what I'm doing right now and I think it's going to be a long time before I become bored of what I'm doing now. And does that age make me too old then to start that? Because I'm going to be 50 in January.

I'd like to. I don't know. There's not enough old white guys on TV. I don't know. That's true. That's a great point. I think that. That's a great point.

That age bracket is not represented at all. There's an opening over at PBS for a little chat show. God, I used to be hooked to Charlie Rose. I watch that show every single night. I do miss those conversations. He always brought people in from all different corners that you're predisposed to be interested in, but he took a layman's approach

to it and asked all the questions to get you into that subject. I do miss that show. It's a hard place to get to. We've had great guests on the last few years. You want to get to a point with guests where they come and they at least respect what the show is. Yeah. And you can feel there's the first couple of years. You have that with this, don't you? I mean, I'll certainly not. We got to it eventually. I know nothing about

podcasts, but I know of this one. Yeah. We got there eventually, but the first couple of years, it was a lot of like, so we're going to talk in these mics and then, so people are going to hear this and just people being confused generally. Yeah. And then, you know, I think Howard Stern's the best example of it though, where people go on that. You've been on that. Yeah.

And you know, you know, he's going to add, you know, these are the three most uncomfortable things that anyone could ask me. And he's going to ask all three things. And you're a willing participant. Well, because the way in which he asks, he's, I know he's got some acting skills, but he's not that good whereby he can convincingly fake the level of enthusiasm and sincerity that he does seem to have. Yeah. And curiosity about those particular three tough subjects for you, he'll sit there and just like, well, I mean, tell me about that, right? That's weird, isn't it? You know, and he'll kind of get goofy with you and you kind of want to fill him in on

it like your buddy would sit across from you and act because that's the way your buddy would ask, like, is that tough what you're going through with such and such? Or like you dated her? What was she like? Right. Yeah. And you do forget about the microphone. Which could be dangerous.

He'll just go, he'll go everything. She was hot, right? Well, when I saw you, I saw you maybe two plus years ago at Kimmel Show for one of the Super Bowl things. And you were telling me how you were talking to Netflix. And you're like, I have this idea for this show. It's in South America. You, you like laid out like what this was and you were like, and I think they're going to pay me to do it. Was this, was I talking about Ozark? Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, I think they're going to pay me to just create it and do it. And it's like 10 episodes. And I'm

like, really? And you're like, yeah, I think it's going to happen. Then that, so I'm like really well you're like yeah I think it's gonna happen then that so I'm gonna have to go away and do this show and I was like wow and I remember walking away thinking like sounds like that's 50 50 that never happens but then it actually happened I gotta know I must have been high on some of Jimmy's incredible food over there to say South Africa South America whatever you say I forget what country you said well you said. Well, it was always going to be, it's in the title there, the Lake of the Ozarks, this creepy place. Or we focus on a creepy section of it. And I certainly didn't create it.

This guy named Bill Dubuque did, who spent a lot of his youth there. Listen, I want to remember the story the way I remember it now. I don't want to rewrite your history with it. This is what I remembered. Yeah. It was all you. The thing that you took away from it was like, this guy's talking about some crazy crap that's maybe going to happen, probably not. What a dreamer.

Well, it seemed insane that they were just going to fund the entire first season. It seemed super ambitious. But you seemed super passionate about it. And I always feel like if somebody's that all in and that idea and they're talented, I'm going to at least keep my guard down. Right. Well, if stuff that is highly ambitious can live, it can live at Netflix.

They're certainly supportive with people who have some ambition and drive and clarity and a plan. And that's pretty cool. And it does end up being the main fuel of execution I find in this business. I don't know if you found the same thing, but oftentimes it really just takes some of that stick-to-itiveness, right? Because there are a lot of people with a lot of ideas. I mean, it's a cliche that everybody's got a script, right? But it's true. It's those that actually say, no, no, no, I got this. Just trust me. I need X amount of dollars and I'm going to deliver you something you are going to be really, really proud of. Just trust me. And then, you know, you've got to fill out the rest of the

pitch meeting with some specifics and some interesting, projects that they can kind of label this with. But beyond that, you just got to end up having enough gas in your tank to go out and do it. And that ends up being a lot of what it takes, I think. Well, so there's a couple of different models, but one of them is you need the quote-unquote bankable star and you need the creator. Yes and no. And those two are good. You have a good chance at least.

It can certainly help. But again, look at what you do. You have a great deal of success in a lot of different areas, and it takes a lot of work. You're up early. You go to bed late, I'm sure. You've got some sort of vision and plan, and you're encouraging people to kind of accompany you on that. And, I mean, it takes somebody with some drive like that without being obnoxious with it.

But, you know, you've got to kind of want it and convince people that you're not going to clank it. Was there a moment with Ozark when you thought? That I might clank it? Fuck, this is hard. I don't know if we're going to be able to get to 10 episodes here. Well, there was, you know, the original plan was to direct all 10. And I knew that was going to be a big mountain to climb. But that was what drew me to it.

We weren't looking for a show. We were looking for a bigger film to direct. Cause I'd done these two festival movies as a director. Maybe that's what you told me that you were directing it. Yeah. Not creating it. Yeah. I mean,

there, there have been directors that, that, that do all episodes. Um, uh, yeah. Carrie Fukunaga did all of the,

uh, the true detectives. Um, it was, it was eight episodes, which is, which is not completely insignificant. And then he ended up in the hospital.

No, no. But I talked to him about it. He said, yeah, we only had time to prep five of them, and then we did the other three on the weekends and after work. And he said, just don't do it. It's a nightmare. He's since gone on and done it again. So he's a real stud.

But we ended up not being able to create enough time to prep them all, to do pre-production for them all. Because since I'm acting in them, they have to all be done beforehand. And it was a bunch of that kind of stuff that I saw as sort of nothing. We couldn't overcome those obstacles. And those were sort of heartbreaking moments. And I ended up just having to create enough time to do the first two and the last two and hire the people to do the ones in the middle. So going backwards, was Silver Spoons was first? Little House on the Prairie was first.

I would never have done that one. It's too wholesome for me. You should check it out. I was watching all the good times in Jefferson's and different strokes. Little House is too pure for me. Too pure for nine-year-old me. There's got to be some sort of dark theme that runs throughout Little House that no one's ever seen. Probably you could go back and watch it and every scene is dark.

It's like playing records backwards. It's like, I can't believe they buried that. Look at the way Michael Landon looked at her. But I remember Silver Spoons first. Silver Spoons, I mean, we're the same age. Back then, we only had a couple channels. So you saw every show. Yeah, and it was on Saturday night.

So it was like, we weren't going out. We were 12. Yeah. We've seen that one. And actually, a really interesting theme for our show, which was, this kid's just super rich. Yeah, well, the dad was super rich and had some, pardon the term, arrested development. And here comes this son who's pretty precocious and becomes sort of the dad's dad, right? And you played the buddy.

I played the asshole friend, yeah. Which led to the greatest show that's ever been on in the 80s, It's Your Move. It's Your Move. I don't know if it holds up. It's still classic. It's another thing. I'm going to remember it the way I want to remember it. I like the way you go through life.

Thank you. Do you take the rearview mirror off your car? Yeah. Good for you. I don't want to look back. I'm looking forward. Yeah, It's Your Move was a lot of fun. That only lasted a year because NBC was getting notes from parents around the country that kids were doing the scams that my character was doing.

Can we explain what that show is about? Because most of the audience that I probably have doesn't know what that show is. It's on YouTube. It's kind of unbelievable that it happened. It's about this sort of this scheming kid that lives in an apartment building and he's got some kind of dupe that lives next door who's dating his mother. Who he hates. Who he hates because he's sleeping with his mom. Yeah.

And so he does everything he can to sabotage this poor guy's life as well as trying to make as much money at school as possible, cheating on tests and getting answers for the other students. And he's like a wheeler dealer. And literally that's the show. That was what the show was. Every episode you would torture this poor guy who was dating your mom. Right. It was great. Yeah.

I loved it. Yeah, it was pretty, it was fun while it lasted. When did you officially become a child actor? Did you know that was happening or because your sister was on Family Ties. Yeah, she was doing, let's see. I think maybe as I was going into It's Your Move, I think Family Ties started. So now you were both guns blazing. We're both doing, well, her gun was blazing pretty hot.

Family Ties was a huge, huge hit. It was a monster. Yeah. It was kind of the last monster show of the 80s that doesn't get met when people are always like, cheers, Cosby. Family Ties was like right there. I think it followed Cosby. I think it was on at 8. Cosby was on at 8.

It was an incredible hour. Family Ties was 8.30. 9, I think, was it like Night Court or something? And then Cheers? Something like that. I always thought, yeah, it was something. There was always one show that didn't totally belong. It was like the powerhouse lineup that had the one 220 hitter.

Right. Pre-empted in there. How did you both end up going into it, though? My dad. You grew up here. Yeah. Since I was seven. Yeah.

We moved here in 76. And my dad was a writer, director, producer. And so the thing that he did with me on the weekends as opposed to going to the park to throw the ball was to take me to like the local art house and show me these, you know, movies with subtitles and show me. Oh, really? Yeah, I mean, it drove me nuts,

but eventually I succumbed to it. And he would say, you know, this is what directing is and this is good directing, bad directing, good acting, bad acting, and kind of why. And so when I got an opportunity to follow a neighbor to an audition, I jumped at it because that's what dad liked, you know. So just, you know, you try to impress dad by working on your jump shot or your pitching or whatever. But in this case, it was acting. Were you living in California at this point? Yeah. We're out in San Fernando Valley and Woodland Hills. Yeah. So then Family Ties takes off and you have your own show. How old, and you're like 13. I am. 12, 13. Yeah. Like 13 right around then. Yeah. And so

Justine and I had this pretty interesting atypical childhood where we would spend, what was it, like September to February on the set working and then from February to June back at our school. Really? So that was always a really kind of uncomfortable transition. You know, I get the crap beat out of me when I go back to school. Seriously? Yeah. Here comes this dickhead that's on TV. Yeah, fuck this guy.

Yeah, he's like, well, what are those girls doing talking to him? They weren't trying to hit on me. Oh, come on. They were just curious, but the studs were like, he's mowing our lawn. Let's kick his ass. Yeah. So that was, junior high is hard enough. That made it tougher. But, you know, it was up to me to sort of let him know that maybe I'm not that bad a guy, I guess.

I don't know. I guess that's what we all try to do at school. That's when the sense of humor really ratchets up. Exactly. This is my – I'm going to make all these people laugh. Yeah, as you're getting kicked in the ass. But, guys, have you heard this one? I've got a great Tommy Lasorda impersonation.

Jesus. When did you stop going to school? I stopped at the end of 12th grade and actually didn't even get my diploma. I was doing your favorite film, Teen Wolf 2. I don't know if your listeners know what an incredible fan you are of Teen Wolf 2.

And the script, Bill gave me the script as I came in here today for Teen Wolf 3 and 3D which you know it's inappropriate what about Teen Wolf 3 I was upset MTV did the

re-brought back the Teen Wolf and made it a totally different thing I had a half a second of like hey what what

come on where's my cut right but then then I saw oh no wait no this is the cool version because it kind of

kind of looked kind of good, I guess. The two Teen Wolves are very 80s-ish. But all those movies from the 80s. Yeah. I don't know what the cutoff is for things not feeling dated anymore, but it's somewhere like mid-90s-ish. I think you're right. With music, too.

Yeah. Oh, same thing. So I'm doing Teen Wolf 2, and we shot it, you know, like in the last quarter of the school year. And I was doing such hours on that that I didn't have time to take two of my four finals. So the high school never gave me my diploma, and I still don't have it to this day. Wow. Mm-hmm. Teen Wolf 2, it cost me a lot.

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to save $20 on your first shirt. That's propercloth.com slash Simmons. Let's go back to Jason Bateman. And you're a big sports fan too back then, right? When did the Dodgers thing kick off for you? The Dodgers thing kicked off for me when I watched the Ken Burns documentary on baseball. Before that, I followed every sport quite a bit. And then I saw that documentary and basically just started following baseball almost exclusively.

But now I follow every sport a bit, mostly around playoffs. I'll tune in on basketball and football. I'm still sort of a cursory owner and a fantasy team, but I let the computer pick that squad. With baseball, I'm the commissioner

in that fantasy league. I'm not fucking around. You're in the celebrity Dodger fan kind of vortex. I don't know about that. How many do you go to a year? I go to 20-ish a year. That's a lot. I used to go to every single home game.

And then I had kids, and it just wasn't a good look anymore. So I said to the season tickets guys, I said, if I spent the same amount of money but only went to 20 games where could I sit and we went we went down low I think that would be a good tv show it would just be called dot dot dot and then I had kids but whatever happens before that is so much more fun than the and then I had kids I'm seeing a lot of kids there's a lot of skin in that show that's not a broadcast network bill people going off the rails uh-huh the Dodgers I see rails in it too. That's not a broadcast network, Bill. People going off the rails. Uh-huh.

I see rails in it, too. Yeah, there's real rails, fake rails. I was impressed by the Dodgers thing moving out here. The Dodgers and Lakers fans, because I, you know,

I grew up in Boston, just hate L.A. sports. Are you a Red Sox fan? I'm an everything fan, yeah. Red Sox, Celtics, Pats. Congratulations. Jesus Christ. Are they pacing to break the record?

They've got to be. So we're taping this on the Friday before the weekend, and they have to go like 38 or something to break the record? The thing is, is that a record you want to break? Why not? Because it seems like it's bad luck for whoever breaks it. Because the Red Sox love the Yankees so much that they want to let them keep that record?

It seems like who else? It seems like almost every team that wins that many games then loses at the playoffs them keep that record? It seems like who else it seems like almost every team that wins that many games then loses at the playoffs. Is that true? It's like a curse. Did they lose in the The 98 Yankees

came out unscathed. They won the World Series. The 01 Mariners won I think like 116 or something and then lost in the playoffs. But the Yankees won that year? The 98 one, yeah. They did.

So... I can't imagine do they have a better record at this point But the Yankees won that year? The 98 one, yeah, they did. I can't imagine. Do they have a better record at this point, the Yankees, than the Sox do? I didn't really realize it. I watch all the Sox games, and you always go glass half empty with your teams. So even though we had the two MVP candidates and we had probably the best pitcher in the A.L.

and a great closer, but you're always concentrating on what we don't have. Like, God, we don't have an eighth inning guy. And then all of a sudden at some point everybody kind of looked at the record and said – it was at the All-Star break. They had the most wins any Red Sox team had ever won at the All-Star break. And we're like, whoa. It's usually – that's the case with any team in any sport, right?

There's a bunch of high B-plus players. There's no real clear stars that gather all the gravity and all of the light. It's sort of a rag—not ragtag, but it's well dispersed. There's parity on the team. There's not a distraction of celebrity. But what was weird about this year is they have these two awesome hitters and one really awesome pitcher. And then there's that, the kind of parody with everybody else.

But it never really felt like a strong team. I felt like we've had better teams. That's the fun thing with baseball, though. It's like the rhythm of the season, if you get into it, still really matters. Why do they score so many runs in general in the American League, certainly the Red Sox? But are the hitters in the American League better or is the pitching worse than the National League? I don't think that – that can't be it. It's distractingly different.

I mean, there's softball scores in the American League. Big market teams. I mean, there's softball scores in the American League. Big market teams. I think that helps. Red Sox and Yankees. They're going to score. Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers. 10, 12. The four most spending, best spending teams.

I know, but you look at like a Dodger-Mets score would be very typically 4-2. And a Yankees-Red Sox score would very typically be 12-8. I mean, very typically. So is it pitching or is it hitting? I don't know. It's some of the ballparks. I don't know all the reasons for it, but it does seem like we have more offense.

I really do think, though, psychologically for pitchers, knowing that the 7-8-9 is coming up when you're in the NL and that ninth guy is the pitcher. It's just how I get through. Because I see it with my son with his Little League stuff. So the pitching then is better innings 1 through 6 because they don't have to go 110, 120 pitches? Well, they get to the bottom of the order,

and they can just be like, all right, I'll get through these guys. Oh, I see. Whereas you know, they get to the bottom of the order and they can just be like, all right, I'll get through these guys. Oh, I see. Whereas in the AL, there's the bottom of the order is just a little, I don't know, I noticed with my son with Little League, because in Little League, there's always like three really good kids on every team.

They always put them at the beginning of the lineup. And when you get through that gauntlet, then it's like, all right, now here comes the kid who's got headgear on. Right. And you get through all those. Yeah. I think the American League also has typically a better hitting second baseman, a better hitting catcher.

You know, the guys that are usually bundled down at 7, 8, 9 or, you know, 6, 7, 8. It's weird. Like in the NBA, the West has been better than the East for almost two decades now. That's true. And nobody really understands why other than the Knicks are completely incompetent and there's just for whatever reason that talent has drifted to the West, but it might be like an accident or an aberration. Well, it's like college sports, right?

Those players are more attracted to those winning teams. When given a choice, they'll say, well, I'd rather play, you know, out in the Pacific than the East. But I don't think that's the case with baseball, right? There's just something about – but I mean when you come up for free agency, like when there's a choice, right? They seem to want to play as much in the West as they do in the East or maybe not. Maybe the better players are playing in the East. And now there's this whole tax thing that probably drives some of it too.

What is that luxury tax? Like why are the – No, I'm talking about income tax. If you play for the Dodgers, you're paying like 13% versus like Houston, you're paying 0%. And it actually – I think for Chris Paul, they said it made him an extra $22 million or something to play in Houston. What if your home though is like let's say I'm Dodger, but my home is in Arizona or in Texas? Don't you have to prove you have to live half of the time or something? Right, but I mean, I think you can.

You live in Nevada, right, technically? I think, yeah. I think you can, though, based on just the season, right? Maybe, yeah, where you play like you're doing work in the four. They're nomads for six months anyway. Yeah. The Red Sox-Yankee thing is weird to me because I don't understand why the Mets also wouldn't be successful because conceivable way they should have as much money as the Yankees do.

So it comes back to my theory, which is it's always about the owner. The owner is like way more important than I think we give credit for. The Dodgers had bad owners, right? Frank McCourt was rock bottom. Looking to have a high-profile team so that he could leverage the parking lot fees and maybe get a football stadium there. And also didn't have any money. Right. And somehow ended up making off like a bandit. It's really one of the great America business stories of the last 20 years,

how that guy actually ended up making money from basically buying the Dodgers with like a bunch of IOUs and weird shit. The group they have in there now seems like such a bunch of great guys. Stan Kasten is such a good dude. They span a shitload. Yeah, moving out here, I was surprised by the Dodgers and Lakers, like how good their fans were and also the generations of fans. Like you see it at the Dodgers game.

You see like 78-year-old guys with Dodger hats on. It is a bummer, though, how we don't get up and cheer an 0-2 count as readily as an East Coast team does. It's like a Yankee thing. Yeah, like it's got to be the eighth inning with a tied score or a one-run lead to get up and cheer an o2 count you know i will say at the same time that's kind of la though i know but and i don't think it's not a good thing kind of like you're sitting back with you you know it's a little embarrassing especially yeah on the national games too you know like the

playoffs and stuff it's you know it's uh come on guys guys. So you haven't won in 30 years. I don't know if you're aware. I know. And I'm a little ashamed of how okay I was with last year. I was so thrilled that we were, I was sitting there at game seven, and, you know, we had, it was lost by, what, third, fourth inning. Yeah. But it was like, it's okay. Look at us.

Here we are. And I was like, that was. Because I was almost expecting it. Well, but I was—I don't know. Maybe I was still on a high after that game five in Houston was just stunning. That's like the best baseball game I've ever seen. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I think if we get back there again this year, I'm going to want it to be won a lot more than I did last year.

I mean, I think, to your point, I was just so thrilled after 30 years to be there. I was at that Kirk Gibson game in 88. I mean, I was- Oh, my God. Yeah. So it was very much a part of my thinking, but I was pretty satisfied that we'd made it through. You were at the Kirk Gibson game?

Yeah. I was actually walking, sitting down the right field line, field level, and started as a typical L.A. fan, started walking towards the elevator behind home plate to get a jump on traffic. And so right about the time I got behind home plate and waiting for the elevator, me and my buddy heard the crowd cheering. And, you know, from that walk around, you can see the field there. And so we looked down and we saw Gibson having just come out of the dugout. He was on the on deck circle. So everybody, a lot of people had already left. We were part of a big, big group that was walking out.

So there was no one sitting behind home plate. I mean, there were tons of people. So you just zoomed down there? So we walked straight down. We sat right behind home plate. Oh, my there were tons of open seats. So you just zoomed down there? So we walked straight down. We sat right behind home plate. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was really cool. My dad and I, I wrote about this when it happened.

My dad and I had a similar thing. The game when everything turned around, the Dave Roberts deal for the Red Sox. Yeah. They're down 3-0. You stole that base? We left, but we didn't leave. Yeah.

Because my dad's like, let's's go down in the tunnel and if anything happens we'll race back so we went down and then malar got the walk to start the inning we raced back but it was like a classic red sox fan moment where we'd kind of quit and given up and had the hope beaten out of us but we couldn't leave yeah you know like just show me one thing and i'll stay and then it's like boom we're back have you, the, the 10th inning on the, the Ken Burns documentary when it covers the Red Sox winning and the home run race? And, uh, I mean, I'm just such a fan of that. The home run race is pretty funny. 20 years later, we glorified those dudes. And then, you know, now it's pretty awkward. Well, yeah, it's pretty awkward that, I mean, what's, when's the last time somebody hit 50 home runs?

It might happen this year with my man, Julio Daniel Martinez. Oh, really? JD. Yeah. He might get there. What about? There's been some, there's been some 50 range, but nothing like, I mean, Bonds had 73. Right. And the year before that had 68 or –

Yeah, 68 or – yeah. So, you know, I was – as I'm sure you would probably agree with, like, the only real fun thing about being even remotely famous or recognizable is your ability to have a conversation with somebody who you really think is cool. Yeah. with somebody who you really think is cool. So talking to professional athletes certainly qualifies as that. So there was this one baseball player that indulged me in some annoying sort of fan questions. And I asked him about steroids. I said, like, what is it about that that makes the numbers go higher? Is it just simply because you're stronger, like you can just hit the ball harder? And he said that it's much more about the twitch muscles.

It's being able to swing later, being able to recognize the pitch deeper, and then snapping the wrist and coming around and chipping it off, you know, just fouling the ball off and staying alive and basically working, you know, getting into a hitter's count and avoiding a bad pitch. You don't need to start your swing as early because the small muscles in your wrists and your hands become strong enough where you don't have to start your swing early and commit and strike out. I think HGH makes your eyesight better too. Oh, really? I'm pretty convinced that that's a thing. And that's a thing that they can't test for right now. Can't you get around that or something? Don't make like you don't know.

Look at the size of you. I know. Listeners, you can't see this, but not only is Bill wearing lifts today, but- You thought I was wearing lifts. I don't remember you being so incredibly tall. It's really impressive. There's some sneaky tall people out there. You need a jump shot to go with that height, though.

You've got that? I used to have one. Okay. I was so excited. Somebody was telling me, Eddie Huang was on two weeks ago, who is like a chef slash personality. But he plays basketball where he used to play. And he mentioned he was coming on the podcast. And a couple of the people were like, yeah, he lights out from 19 feet.

They still remembered. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to dine on that story for five years. It was great. Because they played ones and twos at USC, twos for threes, everything else at one point. So everyone else just jacked threes. And I was always like, I'm good from 19. It counts for one point, but I'm going to make a lot of them.

That was my move. Old guy game. No one ever taught me how to kind of tuck my elbow in and get like a straight sort of – my elbow was always out for the – I just – I could not shoot. Well, you're playing on like TV sets and stuff. Like during breaks with the crew. Exactly. I always used to love those stories about

Clooney at ER. He'd play these basketball games during the breaks. Yeah, no, he was, he was maniac about it.

Yeah, but he's like, he's killing Anthony Edwards, you know? That's what I used to love about it. Yeah. He's posting up

Anthony Edwards. I bet, I bet Anthony's got a good game too. How did you, you had like these different phases of your career. What were the 90s like? What were you trying to do in the 90s? I was trying to continue, but things kind of flattened out for me.

Did you feel like you were pigeonholed by like the child star stuff? Yeah. There was definitely a feeling of my experience sort of worked against me. They're like, eh, we've seen him. That's tired. And television comedy was moving away from multicam into single camera shows. And so I was kind of old news.

And it was really tough. I just want you to know I never gave up. I appreciate that. I swear to God, 100%, I was like, I fucking like that guy. And then when you rallied back, I was I just want you to know I never gave up I appreciate you I swear to god 100% I was always like I fucking like that guy keep an eye on him and then when you rallied back

I was like yes you just had the stock you kept buying stock the stock price went down you're like let me just gobble it up here's how

here's how much of a fan I was when Matthew Perry was doing Chandler Friends Season 1 I was like this guy's on fucking Bateman's Corner this guy just studied

the Bateman game tapes and crafted a Chandler character out of the Bateman game tapes this is bullshit Chandler character out of the Bateman game tapes. I remember watching him just going, oh, man, I'd love that part. I remember hanging out with him a tiny bit through there. We'd bump into each other just here and there. And it just felt so tantalizingly close. Yeah.

It was just, that was something that would have been great. I mean, I never read for that show. Because you were playing child Chandler on like two different TV shows. I suppose. I mean, he's just fantastic at what he does. And I would have done it hopefully as good. But that was one that would have been a blast. That season one, Chandler, and then eventually Friends became a rom-com.

And they kind of defanged him over the course became a rom-com and they kind of defanged him over the course of the show and he just kind of would put his arm around Courtney Cox and ask if he could go get bread for her

he was with Courtney Cox he ended up with Courtney Cox and they murdered the character but the season one Chandler was like I was about the same age I was like finally we're on TV

oh right this is oh great it's a wise ass guy who has trouble with women and can't commit to anyone. He killed me. Childhood divorce.

This is great. He's fantastic. I'd love to see him do more stuff. So what was the big turning point for you? How did you pull it back? What was the rest of development? So it wasn't until then? Yeah.

I was working a little bit, enough to kind of pay the rent, and doing like a pilot every year. So I kept thinking, well, maybe this pilot's going to get picked up and I'll be back on a show. So it was bad luck with the projects? I suppose that – I mean maybe I would have gotten better pilots to do if the people that were doing those better pilots were more interested in me. Yeah. Or maybe I sucked. I don't know. But it just – it didn't work for a decade.

It's bizarre. But I was busy kind of catching up for Lost Time as a kid, too. So I was out partying and having a lot of fun doing that. That was a blast. Who were you running around with? I mean— Did you have a crew? Yeah.

Most of them were non-actors. You should have been in the Leo crew in retrospect. It would have been great. Well, he was, wasn't he? He was busy doing Growing Pains, wasn't he? I think. Oh, that's when you were running around, so early 90s. I think so. I don't know. I can't remember. It's a bit foggy, Bill. That's a good thing.

But in retrospect, it was, it ended up being all good, and I kind of pulled out all that at a time when it was like, OK, now it's not cute and it's – now you're the 30-year-old or 31-year-old closing down the bar and it was – and then that show came along and my wife came along and I put down the booze and everything else and haven't had a drink since. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah.

What is it now? 17, 18 years or something like that? I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. The things you learn on a podcast. Where were you going out?

In Hollywood? Yeah. All the clubs and bars and, you know, just the terrible sort of trashy, tacky Euro. It was a blast. The collars were big. I mean the pictures, the greasy face, zitty skin, big fat collars. Just disgusting. But it was fun.

The 90s LA seemed like a really fun place to try to make it I remember like Jon Hamm was on my podcast once we were talking about it because he was basically he was out here

during the Swingers era yeah and Swingers comes out at Dresden Room the Dresden and all that stuff and it was like this is kind of like

our life is now in a movie this is weird but all these struggling actors seeing themselves through that lens, it was kind of pre-internet. Yeah. It was so much, I was dealing with it in Boston

from a writing standpoint because we just didn't, there weren't a lot of options. It was like, there's two newspapers or the monthly magazine or that's it. How am I going to get read?

And it was kind of the same thing with actors. Now it seems like there's so many more shows. There's so many more shows and there's so many more ways to make noise, right? Yeah. I mean, you can become famous through a bunch of different doors, which, you know, is fine. Like that director from eighth grade, Bo Burnham, he came on my pod last month.

He's a stand-up comic, isn't he? Yeah, but it started as one of the first YouTube stars in like 2006 made some video that a lot of people forwarded around. Yeah, I hear that. It became a comic. That movie is fantastic. And now all of a sudden he's the director and it's great. Yeah, I think I'm going to see that this weekend. Yeah, I hear he did a great, great job with that.

It was good. Yeah. So Arrested, did you know? You were like, if I get this. Yeah. My agent who I had just left after a number of years, I felt like, you know, I got to, it's like, you know, firing the manager of a baseball team, even though, you know, it's, he ain't throwing or hitting, you know, the team sucks.

So it's just, yeah, I was like, well, I got to switch something up. And she, she kind of got it. Um, so I signed with a new agent and six months go by and there's still nothing. And then, and then my old agent calls and she says, you know, there's this, there's this pilot called the rest of development that I see on the list that you haven't been out on. You should tell, you know, those, those new fucking agency years to send you in on that. Um, and I said, well, thank that. That's, that's very nice of you. And, and, um, and we looked at the, at the pilot, I called my agent, agent said, yeah, no, that, that show's

not going to go anywhere. Let me, let me tell you what it says on the cover page. It basically said any actor who is interested in makeup or lighting or a dressing room that's bigger than a corral shouldn't come in on this because it's going to be bare bones sort of documentary style. And then, of course, you read it and it is pretty subversive, challenging stuff at the time. And so they didn't think that it was going to go anywhere. And I said, well, but this is a single camera as well as sort of a mockumentary style. And it's through imagine, you know, Ron Howard is going to be the narrator. Like this is badass, you know, and it's the opposite of what I was known for. That's sort of that sitcom, studio audience, multicam thing. And so I thought they're probably not going to even see me for this. But the guy who created it remembered me from an audition that I did for him, I don't know, five, six years beforehand for a multicam show.

And as he tells it, he remembers that I was good in that. But he, as he tells it, he just, he remembers that I was good in that, but he didn't end up going with me, but he remembered that I gave a good audition. So he said, sure. Yeah. Bring him in. And then I just kind of guessed right with what that, what that character could or should be in and amongst all the craziness. And he followed me out of the audition room afterwards. And he said, he said, Hey, so you have an audition tomorrow for that other show that, that I'm producing on, on ABC, that, that, that, that sitcom in front of a studio audience. I was like, yeah, he goes, right. He says, but, but this, right. This show. I said, yeah, yeah. I love this one. He goes, yeah, good. He said, don't, don't come in tomorrow

for that other one. I don't want to, I don't want the network to see you i was like okay this sounds good he goes uh we'll be in touch and so like i got to my car and i called my agent i said i think i just got really good feedback leaving this audition and yeah so from that moment forward i was really excited about the possibility of what the show could be for me not only just comedically because it was kind of a more dry, less sort of throw to the back row kind of stuff like in sitcoms. This was smaller and more kind of on my sense of humor. And plus what it could do for me sort of resetting the optics of who I am and what I do. What was the ABC show? It would have been funny if it was like Modern Failure.

Yeah, exactly. Oops. I'll take that other one. I don't remember. It's probably the right choice. It didn't go. And then six years later, now your life involves just eating dinner and people coming up and shouting rest of the

development lines at you. Which is fine. I mean, I'm sort of the limited level of fame i have is uh is is sort of just that right it's the people recognize me as an actor as opposed to um you know some like i've got friends that are that are bonafide celebrities like yeah they're like real high profile people super famous and you And, you know, they walked down the street and it's the equivalent of like an animal getting out of the zoo. Like you would whip out your phone immediately and you'd take a picture of that and you would tell total strangers around you,

look at that, look at that. And it becomes impossible for them to live. And fortunately, I guess, and I don't mean to sound, you to sound falsely modest or whatever it would be, but that's not me. I mean I've got enough fame I guess to talk to the baseball player or get a table at a restaurant or keep working. But that level of fame, I don't know if I'd be good with. Yeah, I've noticed that the NBA players who are just like A-plus-less celebs now, but they're also tall. So not only can they not go anywhere, but they literally can't go anywhere, and they stand out like a sore thumb wherever they go. They just got to deal with it.

They're in a hotel suite. Or they have a very small inner circle around them, that's it. Yeah, I mean, these are high- problems, but it is ever present for them. Well, I think the weirdest thing would be just people writing about your personal life constantly. I know you're friends with Jennifer Aniston, but her life just being imagine that you just kind of baked into the cake is the assumption that the people who are reading this are reading this for fun. Like you kind of know that those magazines – that there's more than a grain of salt and there's probably a kernel of truth to it. But it's super hyperbolic in order to, you know, get the magazine sold or the clickbait on the computer or whatever it is. And, and, you know, sometimes that gets

into, um, embarrassing or damaging stuff to, to, to you, I would imagine. But for the most part, I think there's a, there's, there's a trust in an assumption that, that, that the people who are consuming it are, are kind of doing it kind of tongue-in-cheek. I'm always amazed when people can escape being that famous unscathed. I always thought LeBron was amazing in that respect because he's basically a child actor, right? His equivalent of It's Your Move and Silver Spoons was like he was – his high school games were on ESPN. Right. And then he was 18.

He was in the NBA. And he's handled it really well. I think Kobe probably handled it a lot worse and eventually got to the right place with it. But it's just tough, man. There's, yeah, I don't know if it's something you can learn or read about or. I don't think you can. Yeah, I think it's a natural sort of disposition.

It depends on the people around you too, I think. LeBron was very close to his buddies. And if those buddies weren natural sort of disposition. It depends on the people around you too, I think. LeBron was very close to his buddies. And if those buddies weren't sort of – They became like his family kind of infrastructure. Yeah, and if they were bad people, he would probably – That goes back. Yeah, they would be permissive of sort of a lesser instinct that we all have. And my parents weren't perfect, but they were people that I knew if I kind of got lazy with personality and treatment of people that I'd hear about it. And certainly my friends around me would do the same thing.

Your sister must have been like crazy famous during that four-year stretch of that show, right? Oh, yeah. It was like 30 million people watching that show yeah the numbers back then are like it's totally out of whack it's like super bowl numbers for episode 18 of cheers yeah yeah you're right yeah i remember her handling it really well though um yeah she was she was pretty cool with it yeah and remain so yeah so arrested, how many years did it go? The first incarnation. Two and a half. And that was it?

Yeah. It was the greatest thing that ever could have happened on a show. It was critically beloved and people loved it so much that they went crazy when it got canceled. And it's almost like it vaults to this whole other level and then eventually ends up coming back. Yeah, and for the most part, the people who were really watching it and loving it were – well, at least there were a lot of those people in this city and handing out jobs. Good for you. Yeah, when it went down, I kind of got this second shot and treated it differently. And I mean, I was very aware of how lucky I was to have another chance at relevance and what are you going to do with the capital now and how do you sort of diversify and what projects kind of lend themselves to longevity as opposed to fame or fortune.

I mean, it was a real big learning curve. Did you do at least one, I'm only doing this for the paycheck? There, there were more than one. Yeah. You're like, how much? Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. That's a new house. I'm done. I don't need to see a script. I'm good. Yeah. But you do a few too many of those and yeah, you're done. It's a tipping point. Yeah, for sure. You can get right with one, maybe two. I feel like you're allowed a few more mulligans today. You see a lot of people out there doing these commercials that are like, really? Yeah. But it's kind of in the culture.

And I was like, oh, well, yeah, I bet they paid them a bunch for that. Let them go. It is funny with like with, uh, with music too, there's songs that I can't believe are commercial songs. Like, wow, they let them use that for an ad. But you know, I think we're all kind of, we've, I was really worried about this with podcasts, like, you know, five, six years ago about doing, doing, um, you know,

bringing in sponsors during the show and telling the audience to take a break and people are just used to it. People get it now. It's 2018. People get it. Yeah. You got to pay the bills and, and you're allowed to make money and. And tell people about some great sponsors, Jason.

Let's throw to one right now. Okay. Let's take a quick break. Talk about Gillette. I used Gillette this week because I shaved. I'd had the same, same scruffy, terrible, sometimes trimmed beard really since like April. And I finally got tired of it. I was tired of, I didn't know, you know, food that had spilled on it and God knows what else. And I was just like, I'm getting rid of this thing. It's gross.

So at like 1230 at night, I put some Gillette shaving cream on myself. And I just crossed my fingers that my face wasn't going to get all cut up. I used the Gillette 5. And I was nervous because I thought, all right, I'm going to ruin my face. My face isn't ready for a razor. It hasn't seen a razor for four and a half months. Well, guess what? My face was fine.

It was as smooth as a baby's butt because I used the Gillette 5. I used the red shaving cream, and Gillette did me right, as always, as it's done my whole life, ever since I started shaving. Gillette offers a variety of shaving products for every guy, regardless of his personal style, skin needs, or budget.

Whether you want three blades or five, the Gillette 3 and Gillette 5 razors have you covered, all under $10. High performance at a low price. And now Gillette is back in my life because I don't really like the beard. I'm going to go clean shaving for a few months. We're back, baby, me and Gillette. Get Gillette performance delivered to your door. Find Gillette 5 at GilletteOnDemand.com.

Subscribe today. Back to Jason. Great ad, by the way. All right, we're back. That was awesome. Thank you. Thanks for helping out with that. So Netflix brings it back.

Netflix brings it back, and we do. Were you worried about coming back? No, not really. We're just focused on all being able to hang out again and do these characters that we loved and that were so helpful to us in our careers. Yeah. It was just kind of a no-brainer. But they couldn't, wasn't it like this it was really hard to get everybody the schedules and arrange who was gonna be there well because

we we kind of at by this point you know the the show had basically given us all careers and so we're all doing well and they couldn't pay us all the current fees that we were making in other stuff and yeah they're saying well but you got to be exclusive to us for three, four, five months in order to do all these episodes. And we're saying, well, but that means it's three or four months where we can't be making X. And so you guys have to be more flexible with our time so that we're kind of in for a couple of weeks, then out for a few weeks.

And so it just became complicated on a scheduling. This is early on before Netflix just was like, ah, screw it. How much you want? Great. I mean, they're not doormats, but they were very supportive and cooperative, and they are not cheap. They pay people what they deserve for sure. They've definitely – I would say the competition would also agree that they're not cheap. They pay people what they deserve for sure. They've definitely, I would say the competition would also agree that they're not cheap. Yeah, no. What they've done for documentaries

has been incredible. I just think it's so impressive how they continue to reinvest in their company. Yeah. I mean, the amount of money they spend every year in acquisitions and licenses are it's just incredible do you feel so season one came out and was and did well like critics liked it but which on netflix yeah but i don't i don't think it wasn't i don't i don't think it was it wasn't certainly wasn't universally praised i i think there was a little bit of pushback respected thoughpected though, right? Yeah, well, you know, Mitch Hurwitz did a really, I think, a really incredible thing, which was he looked at the... I was talking about Ozark. Oh, oh, oh.

We can go to that. No, it's... We'll close the loop on the rest of it. Mitch did a thing where, you know, it was kind of early in the Netflix original series effort. Yeah. And so this notion of dropping all of the episodes on the same day, right, like an album where you can listen to any songs in whatever order you want, he wanted to embrace that

in a script form. Yeah. So he gave each character one episode to sort of appease the scheduling problems and then figured, well, he'll have all of these events that happen in each episode happen concurrently. So like while you and I are talking, so this is my episode. In the background, we see Job writing a segue. You can stop mine, click over into Job's, and now you're with him where he's going. Yeah.

So it was a really ambitious thing that he did, and I thought it was really cool. I remember there was backlash for that. I do. And then, yeah, there was, there was a, it just didn't, I think braid as, as, as well as he had wished. And certainly the audience had wished. I don't think they, they didn't kill him for it, but it was like, well, hang on. I went to go see the concert and you're not going to play the hits the way I remember them. Yeah. Which I get, you know, you don't want someone to play the hit, well, we're going to do this all acoustic. No, guy, plug it in and give it to me.

Yeah. Or they play a bunch of the hits early, and then it's like, here's our new album. There are bagels to get beer. Yeah, right. Yeah. So I get that. And then we just did another season of it.

We've broken that up into two halves as far as showing those episodes. We did the first half already, and then the next half of the shows are at the end of the year, I think. So Ozark, everything comes out at the same time. I've now gone the other way on this model. I went from liking it to, as somebody who runs a company that does multimedia content, when Stranger Things came out season two, and they just put all of them out at once, we got like three days out of it. And that was it.

Because we have no idea when people are watching which one, whereas a show like Succession, which our staff just really got into. Right. I hear that's great. Yeah, it was really good. And first couple, we wrote like one or two. It started to really heat up around episode five, and it's like every week.

By like week seven, we're like, we're doing a podcast about succession. Like, are we writing about a money? By the time we got to like the last week, we did like five pieces and two pods, and we were kind of building with the show. And I think that's what's getting lost. Now I'm saying that selfishly as somebody who runs a content factory.

Because they're drip, drip, dripping out each episode, and it's giving you guys time to not only ingest it as viewers, It becomes like sports. Yeah. It's like a season. And that's like with Game of Thrones, which is the best example of this,

where we treat Game of Thrones like it's the NBA playoffs. Right. And you have time to review that last game talk about how the managers might play the next game who's gonna start who's not yet what was this little nugget here we had we had like a reaction podcast slash twitter show to it but then another deeper dive podcast that came three days later that was like for the true true maniacs right but if they dump those all at once i think our staff would have a seizure you know i know i don't know i battle on

it back and forth it is a it is a bummer because i i know i know what you're talking like that's one of the reasons i love baseball the because of the pace of it because it lends itself to analysis and um and and strategy and and you sort of you're okay, well, now the count's one, two. I wonder what he's looking for. And with the model you're talking about, it is tough to do that. What I wish they did was, I think when a show launches,

I think you put all of them out because I think people watch new shows at basically their own pace. I think Succession and shows at basically their own pace. I think Succession and Billions was another one that kind of – not very typical. But I think when season two comes out, most people are caught up at that point. They're ready for the next season. And they want to enjoy it with other people, and they want to read stuff and guess where stuff's going.

Right. I think the motto would be to put out two at a time. If Netflix made me czar for a day, what would I do? I'd say put two out at a time. Meaning two a week? Yeah. And give people, give the audience and the media a chance to catch up and write about it. Now, the flip side of that would be if it was a bad season.

And then by the time it was like, oh, this season two is terrible. Whereas if you put the whole thing out at once. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is. Well, from a creative standpoint, like now imagine yourself on the other side of the metric, right? Where you're actually writing the show and you're directing it, acting in it, whatever. If you are assuming that your 10-hour movie is being watched in two sittings or three sittings.

You're thinking about it differently. Oh, yeah. Now you don't have to. Think about the kind of pseudo-subtle recap stuff you have to do if you're only dropping an hour every week. You have to remind people. And so if you were to do that when you're watching a big chunk as a viewer, you're like, guy, I already know that you don't need to hit me with that again. So it allows you to treat it more like a 10 hour movie, right? A 10, 10 chapter film, beginning, middle, and end of the whole thing. Uh, as opposed to each episode being fully intact with a, with a big significant

kind of cliffhanger at the end of each episode to pique your interest, to drag you to the next. It's just a different way of doing it. I'm not saying either one is better, but it is something. Well, what's cool about it is it's so different. Yeah. And it also, it gives the viewer the power. In other words, if all of the people that are following the podcast on, let's say,

Ozark, of which you don't have. The Ozark recapables? You know who we have, though? We have Ozark's biggest fan on staff, Chris Ryan. Well, let's make him czar. Host of The Watch. I love your site, by the way. He's like an Ozark Scientologist.

Is he really? He's badgering people. Have you watched it yet? I'd like to meet him. Yeah. He sounds like a bright guy. We can arrange that. But so you just

would have to tell those people have some self-discipline and only watch one a week and just know. Nobody's doing that. Well, let me ask you a question, Bill. When you go to the market, are you just buying

a day's worth of food or do you have enough fucking self-discipline to load the fridge up and just know, well, I'm just going to eat this tonight and I'll probably have that tomorrow. And I don't want to keep jackassing down to the market, you know, six times a week.

It's the viewer's fault. It's the viewer's fault. It's self-discipline. They should know. There is something to having all the shows available, but it's hard. It's hard, man. When does yours come out? August 31st, end of the month. It's hard, man. When does yours come out? August 31st,

end of the month. All of them drops. Yeah. You got time to watch the first season now, Dick. I'm going to watch it. Get on it. Why don't you sit with that smart guy that works at the ringer?

I was waiting until season two was ready. I actually, it's probably going to be this weekend. Great. Amanda, I have a, how old are your kids? 11 and six.

They're busy. Don't, I'm not comfortable sending them over to your house. No, no, no. I didn't want—how old are your kids? 11 and 6. They're busy. I'm not comfortable sending them over to your house. No, no, no. I didn't want to watch it with your kids. But, no, my daughter's got soccer this weekend. Oh, jeez. This is the weekend. No, you don't have to watch it this weekend.

No, no, no. She's got tournament. It's a good thing about Netflix. They do drop them all at the same time, but it's like a cockroach. They'll never die. They'll always be there whenever you want to watch them. Take your time. My thing is it's a 10-hour commitment, and especially because it was you,

I wanted to do it from a position of strength. And you want to give it the kind of attention. I wanted to make sure it was going to be a second season, and now there is. Now you can commit. I did the same thing with Friday Night Lights. My wife loves that show. I didn't watch season one because I didn't want to get drawn in

and then I'm still reeling from when Love Monkey got canceled. I've had a couple really ones that hurt my feelings. The people who made Friday Night Lights

or Ozark, we didn't know if there was going to be season two so it finishes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You can't be

presumptive and leave some big obnoxious dangling cliffhanger. You've got to close it, and we did. It was like, we're going to make a 10-hour movie, and if it does well, then we're going to do a sequel. I know I'm going to like it. Chris Ryan and I are usually aligned on taste, and he's been badgering about it for a while.

Watch it two at a time. Just watch the first two. Two at a time? Yeah, just watch the first two. Two at a time? Yeah, just watch the first two and see if, you know. Did you study other shows to try to figure out what to do and not do that have arcs like this? No. The head writer, Chris Mundy, is very, very capable and I leave all the writing to him

and I kind of focus on everything else. So you don't weigh in on stuff? I mean, you know, we talk about the whole seasonal arc and what each character is going to do and kind of at what episode. You don't show your ass on this show, do you? Episode 6. I think you get a really nice

ass shot of me. I was really disappointed. Your ass didn't look that good? Yeah, I don't get to see my ass. Yeah. When's the last time you looked at your ass well you'd have to turn around and look at it in the mirror it's not you don't get a real nice natural shot of it right i mean you you got to go out of your way to get a look at your ass right right and you're not doing that at home right no right me neither but here i am watching the show and i'm like whose is that yeah plus we're old we have saggy asses though. Yeah. It's like, what's going on over there?

That was my favorite, my favorite ass flex of all time was Michael Douglas in Basic Instinct. He had sex with Sharon Stone and there's this scene where he walks to the bathroom by Sharon Stone's girlfriend

in the movie and it's just like full ass balls swinging under the ass flex by Michael Douglas where he's like, this has to stay in the movie. People are going to see my swinging balls.

And on a 50-foot movie screen. It's horrifying. But yeah, it's a total ass flex. It'll happen. People do this. Schwarzenegger and Terminator. You're going to do it. Season 3, Ozark.

It'll be like a whole naked episode. Just Bulldog America? You'll have some personal trainer. Are you 50 yet? You're not 50 yet, right? I'll be 50 in January. You'll turn 50 personal trainer? I run like I'm being chased by the cops every day. You sprint? Yeah.

There's an elasticity that just leaves you after 35. You never did a sports movie other than Teen Wolf 2, right? I did a pretty smoking football film called Necessary Roughness. Oh, I like that movie. That movie is top.

Don't apologize for Necessary Roughness. That's a classic. When's the last time you saw that? Kathy Ireland? Yeah. Scott Bakula? Wow. Oh, yeah.

You act like I haven't seen every sports movie at least five times. But, like, I bet you were knee-deep in a bong, drowning in bong water when you watched that movie. I can't deny that. Yeah. I think you should try it sober and see how many minutes you can get in. The 90s where some of those movies have not, as we discussed earlier, have not aged well.

No. Even like the program has not aged well. When was the last time you watched the program? James Caan, Crooked College Football Coach. I don't know that movie. That's a good one. Yeah? Yeah, that's a good one.

It became famous after the fact. That's a good one. Yeah? Yeah, that's a good one. It became famous after the fact because there's a steroids character in it. Oh, really? Latimer, who gets off steroids and then gets knocked over on the big goal line stand so then gets back in the steroids at the end of the movie. So that became kind of its signature. So it's a teaching moment. It's a teaching moment.

A learning moment. Like, don't stop taking steroids, kids. The thing I loved about Nessar Reference is that I got to wear football pads for the first time in my life. I'm such a candy-ass actor. The only time I could wear football pads is in a movie, in front of the lights. And I

had, because my mother's English, she made me play soccer my whole life. She made me play football. So I was very excited to do this, but I had no idea how to tackle. I was petrified of breaking my neck, right? Because you've got to lead with your helmet. And I was like, guys, this doesn't sound smart at all. You must not be saying a crucial thing to me.

You're saying lead with the crown of the helmet. That's where my head is. That's where my head is, and my neck is going to take a real big shot here, fellas. So what I ended up doing was I would sort of shrug my shoulders up high and I'd lock my helmet into the cavity between the shoulder pads thinking that, well, that's going to lock it in place. Now it can't kink right or kink left or back at all. And that's the way... So you look like Lurch? Yeah, I just look like an idiot. Stunt Double did a lot of work in that film

for me. But you're good at baseball, though. I've played softball with you. I can do all right. You should have done a baseball movie. Who wants to watch those? All the good ones have been done. Yeah. I've seen a couple of great scripts, and I'm just like... Seriously'm not— Seriously?

Oh, yeah. Like, there's a Pete Rose one right now that's just like—first of all, that story's not finished yet. And I just don't think you can touch the sacred ground of the Bull Durham's and Natural and, you know, even Major League. I had this idea. I think—Tommy, who was the guy I gave the idea to for the baseball movie? Was that miles tower? Yeah. Didn't he do one?

Didn't he? Well, so there's a lot of these athletes are, yeah, all these athletes are frustrated baseball players. So I had this idea for, and it's like a half baked idea as my friend Kevin was used to call it. It's basically an excuse to all these actors who secretly want to

show everyone that they're good at a sport like baseball. Costner and Tom Selleck. Yeah, all these people. It's basically some actor buys a minor league baseball team and puts it in Hollywood and the gimmick's going to be he has his actor friends kind of be

on the double A team, but then they actually become pretty good. And it's like, it's one of those, but it's the only way, the only reason to do it is because people like Bryan Cranston are still like, yeah, I could play now. I can hit a baseball 300.

I think Cranston was the starter. Hey, you get all those. Tony Danza. And you're basically just appealing to their ego. I had an inside to park home runoff Tony Danza at the Hollywood Stars game. Did you really? Past the sprinting Lou Ferrigno.

Yeah, I hit a gaffer. What was the Hollywood Stars game. Did you really? Past the sprinting Lou Ferrigno. Yeah, I hit a gaffer. What was the Hollywood Stars game? Well, the Hollywood Stars, they still do it, but now it's softball, and they bring in a fence and everything. But back then, it was hardball. It was overhand. Oh, my God. And, yeah, and I kind of closed my eyes and hit one pretty hard,

a right field gap, So play at the plate. I can't believe they didn't take Lou Ferrigno out for defense late in the late innings. Yeah, he was not closing on the ball quickly. But it was great. Fred Rogan post-game interview and everything. Oh, my God. My buddy. You own Tony Danza.

Yeah. Don't bring that into my house, Tony. Yeah. So what's next for my house, Tony. Yeah. So what's next for you, Ozark, and then what else? We're working on stuff now. We'll see. Okay. What's your favorite movie that you've done?

What's your go-to? This is – I'm the most happy with this movie. That's a good question. Still haven't met the movie? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they're all kind of good for different reasons, but there's nothing like doing an ensemble comedy, right? You know, like a studio budget, right?

Where you got a long schedule, so you don't have to do a bunch of pages every day. So the pace is kind of relaxed and everyone's playing grab ass all day because no one's got a big emotional scene you got to be sensitive to at the end of the day there's no big action dangerous stunt stuff that somebody's right it's just like people are just the movie is just dumb so what's your favorite of those i mean come on pick one there's plenty of dumb ones i've done you know like uh like uh the horrible bosses or Identity Thief or even Change Up or, you know, really good fun times.

There was a Horrible Bosses too. Which I thought was better than the first one. You made a sequel. You know a comedy worked when there's a sequel to it. Well, it either worked or worked just enough, but nobody consulted the audience to see if they gave a shit. Why didn't you ever get into the Apatow circles? It would have seemed like a natural to you.

I don't know. I mean, he knows where to get a hold of me. That's bullshit. Come on, Apatow. I think he's a great guy. Did I say that clearly into the microphone enough? Couldn't have been in one of those the last... I know. Well, listen, there's a lot of talented people he's got access to. I'll wait my turn.

Is Kimmel, do you think he's a 10-episode Netflix show, an ABC sitcom, or like a dark indie movie? You mean when he transitions into his. If you had to make a, if you were making the Kimmel story, what would you, which path would you pick? What was the last one? A dark indie movie. That one. A dark comedy. I think Jimmy, I think Jimmy could do that.

Well, you know, the cliche with comics is that they're all dark. But Jimmy, when he's not doing his show, Jimmy at home, he flicks a switch. And he's a real interesting guy to talk to. But he's not on. He guy to talk to but it's he's not he's not he's not on he's not you know banging the tambourine um he's um he's got i think he'd be do you ever see um jerry lewis in the king of comedy yeah like that's um so you want him to be kidnapped in the movie well i just i think he's he's got he's got some mystery in there that I think would translate well

with a camera. Yeah. I remember the first year I worked for him, he was going through a divorce, he was dating Sarah and he had his kids

who were basically the same age of our kids now. And like on Wednesdays he would babysit his kids. But he was also doing the show and like the kids

would get delivered, they would do homework and he was like trying to do this talk show and like the kids would get delivered they would do homework and he was like trying to do this talk show and get ready to interview like 50 cent right but then like his son's playing video games and his daughter and i was like i was like have you ever thought about turning this into a sitcom or like a like a single cam hbo show and. And he paused for a second. He's like, no. No, it happened. Why would I do that? It was like, what are those?

I was like, no bad ideas in a brainstorm. Well, they were probably in the middle of Larry Sanders right then, too. It was right afterwards. So it was probably like four years later. You can't touch that, right? No. But that's the thing. You can't ever touch it.

But yet, now it's been 20 years, and it feels like you probably could touch it. It would have to be a completely different type of show. You might get allowed to, but would you be able to sleep at night? You know, I just – So you think it's sacred ground? Just me personally, I just love that show so much and everybody – I mean, let's talk about Apatow. You know, he was right there. You know, we did this thing.

We did the 100 best TV episodes in The Ringer. And we did a tweet about describe your favorite episode ever in five words so all these people tried to do their things and I think uh

mine was like Larry Sanders Larry's friends roast him or like so it was the cause my favorite episode ever is the Larry Sanders roast yeah

but uh I gotta I gotta I have not seen all of them but the ones I have I just just because my favorite episode ever is the Larry Sanders roast. Yeah. I've not seen all of them, but the ones I have, I just think it's just tonally just spot on. He agrees to be in a roast, and it just goes badly. It's like the quintessential. Yeah, I mean, that created the framework for a lot of where Arrested Development and some of these other shows went. The one I still haven't watched is The Office,

which that's also on my list. No, the American one that my entire staff is obsessed with. Did you see the British one? No. That's why people always go, you got to see the British one first. I have to choose, right? Not to say that the American one is no good,

but it's just different tones comedically. What if I don't like British people? Well, then you should probably talk to somebody. But it's a much smaller, quieter, uncomfortable brand of humor. Like the humor is in the discomfort of the silence. And if that's a thing that makes you giggle, then it's for you. The American version

does that for sure, but there is a difference. No better, no worse. Again, kind of like Woody Allen humor versus Mel Brooks humor. They're both incredibly good, but wildly different. Ozark, August 31st. humor. They're both incredibly good but wildly different. Alright.

Ozark, August 31st. And then other projects that you want to talk about? No. Nothing left to talk about here. No, there's a possible things in the hopper maybe. There's hopping. When I come back,

I'm going to have just a list. But what you're going to do is you're going to have season one done. I'm going to watch Ozark. I swear on my kids I'm going to watch it. I mean, Jesus. I've just been saving it. I should have actually called and said, well, hang on. Has Bill even seen Ozark?

I'm not sitting down. No, but I knew I was going to see it. We've given Ozark a lot of love on The Ringer. That's good enough. I don't think you have. We have. Tommy, have we? It's on my loop.

Yes. I do check The ringer every day. And it's not there. There's a lot of love. You're talking about your fucking game, the thrones, and your 100 best episodes. I guess what? I didn't even click on the 100 best episodes article because I knew I was nowhere in it. No chance.

First of all, you're definitely in it. Really? Arrested was in there. Doubt it. I don't know if Ozark was. We haven't had your great episode. I can tell you Ozark wasn't in it. Really? Arrested was in there. Doubt it. I don't know if Ozark was. We haven't had your great episode yet. I can tell you Ozark wasn't in it. Have you had your great episode yet?

Yeah. Usually that's like season three, season four. No, but season three, season four is when. That's what I hear Breaking Bad gets smoking then. I've only seen the first season of Breaking Bad and I hear that that's like dig in. Yeah. So you're mad at me I haven't seen Ozark yet? You haven't even seen Breaking Bad?

Buddy, I'm ridiculous. Don't tell Jen I haven't seen Ozark yet? You haven't even seen Breaking Bad? Buddy, I'm ridiculous. I haven't seen – don't tell Jen. I haven't seen Friends. Come on. I've seen scenes of it, but I don't think – I've never seen a full episode of Seinfeld. I've never seen – But you know the Chandler character in Friends, though. Oh, sure.

But I've never seen like – I've never like sat down and go, okay, it's time to watch Friends. Right. You know, there are shows that you kind of sit down and make appointments for, I suppose. But I'm that dork that watches every single Dodger game. Yeah. And MSNBC. And that's it. You hear what's going on in Washington, D.C. with this president of ours?

You hear what's going on? It's a real show. It's not great. My question is, when does it start trickling into Hollywood and culture? Because I saw there was some – I saw a trailer for a movie called The Oath with Tiffany Haddish and all these people. And it's basically about – the White House releases some Patriot Act and everybody has to sign. But it's clearly like making fun of the Trump presidency, like crossed with the purge. Right.

And I was like, oh, here we go. I guess we're starting to make these now. I'll bet there's going to be a whole generation of things that will be affected, I'm sure. Because you think about in the 70s when Watergate happened and starting about two years later, it was just this run of suspense kind of Washington thrillers that we grew up with. All the President's Men, I think, is one of my favorite films, if not my top film. But there was a lot of those like that, like Marathon Man, where just people aren't what they seem, and the government's evil, and people are around every corner.

And it started this run. I wonder how this is going to manifest itself. I wonder who's got the lead on the lead, meaning who's winning the race in having a fully developed, ready-to-go Donald Trump movie about the whole presidency, about this whole scandal, about the whole – the eventual takedown, I'm sure. I mean, knock wood. Like Catherine Bigelow and Mark Boal were ready with the Osama bin Laden thing. They were well down the field on that. Would you play Donald Trump Jr. if it was the right thing? Why would I have to be the junior?

I'm going to be 50 in January. I could put on a lot of weight. You'd have to put on like 50 pounds. I could get some kind of nice light rinse in my hair. You'd have to get lifts. He's like 6'3". Is he really? Yeah.

Yeah. He's like 6'3". Is he really? Yeah. Yeah. He's a big man. That's part of the in-person kind of mystique about him. Why all of a sudden? Remember the debate with Hillary when he seemed like he was like five times the size of her? That's because he was like prowling around her like a freaking psycho. No, that movie will be good. Whoever does it.

See, I think Don Trump Jr. is the Oscar part. The Oscar part? That's the supporting actor Oscar. Don Trump Jr. Pull that out. He's going to have a real pathetic meltdown at the end, I think, to really bring the award home. He's got to just turn into a blubbering fool on the stand.

And then you get your award. You've got to cry on the stand. Keep an eye on this. I don't want you to lose out on an easy Oscar. Jason Bateman, this was fun. Thank you. Thanks, Bill. Thanks again to Jason Bateman.

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