The Bill Simmons Podcast - 'Jaws,' With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 385)

Episode Date: July 4, 2018

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey are gonna need a bigger boat to celebrate the 1975 Academy Award–winning shark-attack thriller starring Roy Scheider and Richard Dreyfuss and directed by Steven Spielberg. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This very special crossover, July 4th, rewatchable slash Bill Simmons podcast edition. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Having a high IQ is important. Just look at what we're doing here, July 4th. What better day to run a giant Jaws crossover podcast? When it comes to hiring, you don't need a high hiring IQ. You need ZipRecruiter. That's it.

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Hotel Tonight, the only booking app you need. If you need to read stuff on July 4th, check out theringer.com. We are NBA free agency, Drake, Armageddon, director's commentaries.

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Rewatchables because this is what we do every week on the Rewatchables. We are about six weeks into a 20 episode stint right now. What we've been doing really for the last year and a half, we break down movies. I'm the host most of the time. Sometimes I'm not. Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy, a bunch of Ringer staffers hop on. Wesley Morris has been on here from time to time. Remember Brown, I think, has been on, Mark Titus.

So we break down movies that we love. We have categories. We try to answer questions we can't answer, and we do it every week. Check it out. Subscribe to The Rewatchables on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Coming up right now, The Rewatchables. But first, Pearl Jam. There is a creature alive today who has survived millions of years of evolution without change, without passion, and without logic. It lives to kill. A mindless eating machine. It will attack and devour anything. It is as if God created the devil and gave him Jaws. Jaws.

Do we think this is the greatest movie of the last 50 years? Whew. Let's go. It's coming hot, Bill. It's coming hot. Here's to swimming with bow-legged women. Boy. I wouldn't say, it's not, it's not.

It's not. Okay. It's not. Okay. But it is right there. And it might be the most rewatchable, which doesn't make it

the best movie, but it might be the most rewatchable movie. So most rewatchable movie of the last 50 years. It's in the conversation. Chris Ryan? It is my favorite movie

of the last 50 years. Oh, okay. And it is, it is like the feeling that you get from watching Jaws is the feeling that I think I chase when I go to a movie theater. It's that feeling of you get entertained, you get thrilled, you think, you're scared. Everything that you can experience inside a theater

you experience while you're watching Jaws. It's untouchable and I think it's the oldest movie that is still completely watchable right now I watched it with my kids a couple years ago as soon as my son was old enough to watch it and we watched it and reliving it through them

and first of all it's not really slow like some of those movies from the 70s it's super scary all the same beats play really well. And the ending, the last 25, 30 minutes is just untouchable. It's cracking. It's probably the best. There's not one thing I would change about the last 30.

Oh, no. I mean, as soon as they get on the boat, it's basically forget to breathe for an hour. Yeah, they're on the boat basically for the last hour of the movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's like an investigative movie on the beach for about an hour, and then it's on the boat for about an hour, right? When did you guys first see it?

Well, I was living in Massachusetts, saw it somewhere 75, 76, and remember, you know, in the research, it backed up what I remember in Massachusetts. It actually made people afraid to go to the beach. That was a real thing. Oh, yeah. Beach attendance went down. Maybe afraid to go to the beach. That was a real thing. Oh, yeah. Beach attendance went down. Maybe you're afraid to go in the pool.

Yeah. You know, the beach scene, we lived in Brookline, so you had to drive like about 45 minutes for water. And I remember just walking, you know, near the beach being scared. There was no way I was going in. The ads alone just scared the fucking shit out of me. When I was a kid in like 86, 87, this was like, I didn't see it in theaters, obviously.

I was born in 77, but it was the, what should we rent? Jaws. Let's just rent Jaws. Like in the mid 80s, in the late 80s. And when I was a competitive swimmer, I used to scare myself while I was doing laps by playing the music in my head and thinking there was a shark behind me.

So I would just try to swim faster. Yeah. And it was like, it was like a legit psychological trick I would play on myself. I would think about like, there's a shark behind me. By the way, you were a competitive swimmer? When I was like young teen. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Look out for Chris Ryan and Michael Phelps' new podcast. We have similar builds. Similar builds. Can we film a swimming thing for the ringer? Sure. Like a swimming mini-doc?

So 75 Jaws comes out and completely transforms popular culture and actually affects behavior. 76 Rocky comes out, and it's basically the same thing. People start exercising, jogging, all that stuff. 77 Star Wars comes out and creates this whole new universe for human beings and just people going over and over again. Three straight years of just craziness. And blockbusters.

Like blockbusters. All-time blockbusters. So Sean, I mean, I was kind of curious about this because they always say that Jaws is where movies changed. Jaws is where modern movies are born? Is that because people would go and see it six times in a summer? I mean, what is it that they're talking about

when they talk about how it changed the business landscape of movies? Well, there was a particular strategy that they made, the producers, Zanuck and Brown, that was pretty revolutionary at the time, which is that they put the movie in a shitload of theaters. Most of the time in the movie business in the previous 75 years, essentially, movies would come out in 12 theaters and then 18 and then 70 and then 100 and then 150.

This movie went into 450 theaters right away. So it was able to be a national phenomenon. There were not a lot of movies that were like that. What's crazy about that was initially it was 900. Right. And Lou Wasserman, grandfather of Casey, he actually had the very astute note of, no, cut that in half. I want people in Boca Raton to have to drive to Hollywood, Florida to go see it.

Right. So it was enough to make it a noisy news story, a national phenomenon, but not enough so that everyone could have seen it immediately. Now, when we put out Avengers Infinity War, everyone sees it that Friday. He wanted to own the summer, which you could do back then.

Now, I don't think it's possible to own the summer anymore. And it was already a property that was primed to own the summer because Peter Benchley's book had been this huge beach read. And if you read Carl Gottlieb's book about the making of Jaws, he was a guy, he's an actor in the movie and worked on the screenplay. And then he kept a diary of every day of working on Jaws pretty much from pre-production on. And he talks about like how specifically they were timing the production of the movie based on when the book was going to hit paperback.

Yeah. Because the paperback book would then trigger book clubs, people reading it at the beach because they could put it in their bags and stuff. By the way, I remember being scared of the book. The shark was on the cover. I remember even holding the book as a six-year-old and being like, eh, what's this? The book is very different. I don't know if you've read the book. The book is very different from the movie.

At one point, Hooper, the Richard Dreyfuss character, starts banging Mrs. Birdie. That's in the book. Steven Spielberg specifically asked to cut that part out of the movie. Good move. That would have been a different rewatchable. So, this comes out.

It's widely credited as created in the summer of Blockbuster. And I think that's 100% fair, right? Pretty much accurate. I mean, there had been movies prior to this that were hugely successful at the box office. I think the one thing that you hear a lot about is that Jaws kind of killed the new Hollywood. It killed that era that was kind of brought in by Easy Rider and, you know, all the Jack Nicholson films from that time and all the Peter Bogdanovich movies. And this idea that the director was the king and the creativity and

eccentricity were able to thrive in Hollywood. And Jaws comes in and kind of like, it gets corporations more interested in movies. And that's kind of the downside of the movie. The upside is movies are major events. They're world national events. And in this case, it's justified. Did you know that it got postponed in Christmas? It wasn't supposed to come out in the summer? Did I know that?

Yeah. So it's supposed to come out Christmas 74. It gets postponed. And back then, the summer was the dumping ground. I was trying to figure out why that would be the case, why we wouldn't have wanted to go to movies in the summer. When I was a kid in the 70s, I wanted to go to movies all the time. But was that more for genre B movies and stuff in the summer?

Was that the playground for that? Maybe school was longer back then. Is that possible? I think part of it is that kids want to go outside in the summer. That was the thinking prior to this. Oh, well, because we could go outside and nobody would follow us. It was safer. Yes, it was safer. We'd be gone for

seven hours. In the 70s, you're just like, Mom, I'll be back at six. Don't forget to be back for dinner. And I was out. We were just gone. Yeah, I know. My mom would get mad at me if I was in the house past 10.30am. She was't forget to be back for dinner. And I was out. You're just gone. Yeah, I know. My mom would get mad at me if I was in the house past 10.30 a.m. She was just like, be back for dinner.

I think about how my own son, Ben Simmons, will be more successful, Ben Simmons, than the other Ben Simmons. Let's hope not. That's bold. I'm calling it now. Now, my Ben Simmons, if we lived in an era where he could just be like,

I'll see you guys later. I don't, we'd never see him again. That'd be it. I'd be like, where's Ben? It's also really weird to think about it

where we live, where you're just like, if your son went out and just was like in LA, like what would he do? He'd be like, I got to get him to Uber. It's like,

I'm going nine blocks away to hang out with a friend. I'm not kidding. We used to go, we'd go to the mall. we used to go to the dump just go hang out at the dump the chest and heel dump the huge dump we'd go look for

playboys and baseball cards for like hours you know people throwing baseball cards in the dump did you grow up on the set of Stand By Me what happened did you go look for a dead body we would have like street hockey all day. Your parents are just out.

My parents were at work. I was home alone every day. So did you go to the movies when you were looking for something to do? Yeah. Well, eventually, yeah. Okay. Eventually. And they weren't movies that were cheap back then.

This actually leads me into one thing that I thought was really interesting about this movie specifically. Yeah. Is the three or four different lifetimes it's spanned. Cause you had the initial blockbuster release in the mid seventies. And then when home entertainment comes in and VHS comes in, it becomes one of like seven movies that you would find it almost at any given moment at any person's house.

And if it was the de facto, do you guys want to watch a movie? Sure. Well, we have Jaws or we have Goonies or we have whatever the other three movies are. But it was, I feel like it was on for the first 13 years of my life. Well, you left out some checkpoints there.

Sure. Hit me up with them. First Laserdisc, 1978, first one. By the way, great choice. That would have been my number one choice for a Laserdisc, right? If you're in 1978, that would have been my number one choice for a laser disc right yeah if you're in 1978 that would have been oh yeah absolutely i didn't know this in the research found out abc aired it for the first time in 1979 it attracted 57 of the total tv audience wow the second highest televised movie ever behind Gone with the Wind 57%

I'm trying to figure out what that would be now that would be like two Super Bowls at the same time yes the Super Bowl gets what

33 35 how many viewers no the percent of the total oh yes yeah I think 35 incredible

so you have that then you have the VHS checkpoint yeah and you're right it was it was one of the must have whatever's

and then you go into the 92 to 94 range and they started doing those VHS tapes with the deleted scenes so it had those I think it's also then in the last

like I mean and forgive me if my I'm not going to have an accurate survey of when this happened, but it definitely feels like in the last 10 years, our generation of people, of writers about pop culture writers kind of grew up and were like, let's have like a real critical

reappraisal of this might be like one of the great five films ever made. If you look at it in certain ways and just a deep, deep respect for it critically. Because I think it was a crowd-pleasing blockbuster, but I don't know that we had necessarily looked at it as like, you put this up toe-to-toe with almost any movie and in a lot of technical ways, it's unrivaled. It's got a lot of things going for it.

Well, there's one big reason for it, though, before you go into a lot of things. The TVs. What do you mean? The last 10 years, the widescreen HD, the big S. Oh, yeah. Once we had widescreen, Jaws was a different movie. It was never a totally satisfying movie on the old TVs because he shot it that huge wide with the ocean and the boat

and you could see everything. And then all of a sudden you had on the square TVs, you had to kind of zoom in on it. It's a beautiful movie to watch, though. I think that's one of the most beautiful movies you can put on kind of zoom in on it. It's a beautiful movie to watch though. Yeah. I think that's one of the most beautiful movies you can put on a television other than Robert Shaw getting mauled to death and a little kid getting- Don't tell Kyle that happens.

You know, this movie's rated PG. It's an amazing PG. There's nudity. How is this movie PG? Because back then it was G, PG, and R. That was it. Parental guidance suggested for a movie that's featured that opens with a nude woman being eaten by a shark in one of the most upsetting scenes in the history of movies. Well, she shouldn't have been out there.

Okay. And essentially concludes with Robert Shaw literally being eaten alive. Yeah. You left out the kid. Yeah. A kid gets eaten. And a dog. This movie gets eaten. And a dog. This movie is PG.

That's crazy. It's crazy. It's, uh. Like, is this movie two full ratings less scary than The Exorcist? No, certainly not. I actually think Quint getting eaten is, might be the most disturbing death scene in any movie ever. Just pound for bound. It goes on for ten more seconds than it should.

Yes. He sells the shit out of it. It's an amazing performance. Blood's coming out then it's like oh they ate him and then that second chop comes in and the blood

just comes out of his mouth don't skip the most rewatchable scene too fast oh it's so good my son I was scared when he saw it

but he of course loved it because he's he's a maniac but it's really dark what is a worse death scene than that again this movie is PG Scatman Crothers and the Shining but he of course loved it because he's a maniac but it's really dark. What is the worst death scene than that? Again, this movie is PG.

Scatman Crothers and The Shining? What's the worst scene? I think Sonny Corleone's up there. Oh, the toll booth? Yeah. But this would be the toll booth if he just kept getting shot

for another 12 seconds. Neither of those scenes are bloody. When the blood appears in Shaw's mouth I felt like I learned a lot about the human body. You know,

I didn't know that that could happen. And then Scheider manages, he closes the door and the boat's just covered in blood. Apparently, I'll step on the internet research. There's another scene that Spielberg cut out because it was too gruesome on the July 4th weekend. Maybe somewhere around there when the shark's going for this guy's son, and he jumps in front of the shark,

and the shark just completely mauls him. And even Spielberg was like, that's too much. That can't stay in. Discretion is a huge part of the myth of this movie, right? Yeah. That's the fact that we'll talk about it, I'm sure, but the shark not working. Sure, I interrupted you.

So when I interrupted you on the TVs, what were you saying? What were the reasons? Movies need like a lot of things to become legends. They need not just to be great and fun to watch, but they need to be about mythology. So in the mythology of Hollywood, this movie becomes the first huge blockbuster. That's one. It has a really troubled production that people love to talk about because it ended up becoming a huge success. So that's two. You've got a director who goes on to be basically the most important person in Hollywood for the next 40 years. That's three. And you've got this

incredible ripoff thing that happens where this movie comes out and every movie tries to be like this. Alien was sold on Jaws in Space. That was how they pitched Alien to the world. So you've got those four crazy things plus awesome performances. A music score that became you could never have known Jaws and you would know the music. And I think it became something that is like, you hear this a lot with albums, but

parents get excited for like, I can't wait to play my kid this Beatles record to show him who I am as a person. I think parents feel this way about Jaws. I'm sure you- I know I did. I have a hundred thousand years.

I think that you're just like, I have no children. I would have children just to show them Jaws. There are some dads that are like that with Star Wars. I know when Kyle, if Kyle over there, when he successfully reproduces, he will be showing his spawn to Star Wars movies. Kyle's hiding a child. What he acknowledges.

But yeah, this was one of those movies. I remember thinking with Ben, like, four, is it too early? Yes! Five, still too early. Ah, six, yeah, let's squeeze it in. And what do you think? He loves it. Every time it's on, they want to watch it. And I don't know how much we want to talk about Jaws 2, but the last half hour

of Jaws 2 is really good. Ben's also 2 but the last half hour of Jaws 2 is really good Ben's also in on the last half hour of Jaws 2 playing time for the Jaws expanded universe you're out I'm out I don't acknowledge

any of those movies so Peter Benchley sold the movie for $175k in retrospect maybe should have gotten like one

hundredth of a point he sold the book for $475,000 yes and he sold the movie for $475,000. Yes. And he sold the movie for $175,000. And at the time, he was like, I made out like a bandit. Lo and behold.

I mean, that's the equivalent of one day. David Brown was married to Helen Gurley Brown, Cosmo editor. Took editor, saw an early advanced copy. They say, hey, what's this? They go check it out and they lock it down. That was smart. It was smart that they knew they had a hit on their hands. I don't know enough about different advertising campaigns over the years, but apparently how they advertised this was really innovative. They came in $700,000, just flooded the TV, every network. There was only three to flood for three straight days to build BuzzFort.

450 theaters, Sean mentioned, and just made it an event. This was June 20th, 1975. Was this a drive-thru movie too? Oh, yeah. Kind of drive-thru movies are hard to explain to the Kyle generation. Guys, they're called drive-in movies. Drive-in movies, yeah, sorry. What is a drive-thru movie?

Should we talk about that? Drive-thru movies. You drive up, they give you a movie, you drive away. You get a Taco Bell with it. This was a drive-in movies. Yeah, sorry. What is a drive-through movie? Should we talk about that? Drive-through movies. You drive up, they give you a movie, you drive away. You get a Taco Bell with it? This was a drive-in movie. Trouble Shoot,

you mentioned, went over budget, nine million, three million devoted to the mechanical shark that wouldn't work. First movie to make a hundred million,

made almost 500 million. Over 67 million people saw it in 1975. Wild. How many people were in America in 1975? How many people voted for president? 250 million maybe? It's going to be like one third or one fourth of America

saw this movie. Spielberg, he made Duel for TV, which is really good, by the way. That one still holds up too. It's super dated, but strong. Sugar Lane Express. And then this was his third movie. I don't even know what the parallel is to that. You could argue this is the best movie he ever made.

There's a conversation. I think most people do this in Raiders. No, you and I both landed on Jaws. We did a podcast about this and we both landed on Jaws. I don't know if it's his most artistically accomplished movie. It's his best movie, though. It's definitely his best movie. It does all the things that he essentially sets out to do in his career. It has some really innovative touches that allegedly, apparently, they still teach in film schools and stuff. Oh, yeah.

Like the famous Brody shot when he realizes something happened in the water and the camera moving forward as everything pans back. Some of the underwater stuff. That stuff wasn't happening in 1975. No. I mean, he was a genius. He was literally training his brain for 15 years as a preteen to figure out how to make movies like this. He put himself up for this, too, this movie.

He wasn't the first choice for this movie, and he begged on. Oscars, one for best score, best sound, best editing. Lost best picture. I have all the nominees here, Chris Ryan. Do you know what to watch, Chris? I don't know it was lost in 75 I'm sure it's not

going to be too impressive no it is Wonderful Over the Cuckoo's Nest it's a tough one I'd still say Jaws is a way better movie than that R.I.P. Milos Forman

mid 70s defensible it hasn't aged the same way that Jaws has aged but that's a really good movie it's a great movie yeah the other nominees

that year were Dog Day Afternoon Barry Lyndon and Nashville that's a fucking unbelievable line of movies. Those are five of my 38 favorite movies. That's incredible. Well, it gets better because Spielberg wasn't nominated for Best Director. Yeah.

He got shut out by Milos Forman, Fellini, Sidney Lumet, Stanley Kubrick, and Robert Altman. That's insane. That's the gauntlet. That's why people care about the Oscars, man. What's Fellini? Was it Satyricon? What's 75? That one.

Satyricon. That's why people care. Because you can get into a final four like that. That top five for directing has to be the number one top five that's ever happened. That's way up there. For Spielberg to get cut out. Way up there. Holy mackerel.

And Foreman won, right? Foreman won. there. For Spielberg to get cut out? Way up there. Holy mackerel. And Foreman won, right? Foreman won. That used to happen back then, though. Movies would just sweep everything. Yeah. That's a famous... And that movie did sweep. Louise Fletcher won that year and Nicholson. Oh, right. Yeah. Who got nominated out of Scheider, Robert Shaw, and Richard Dreyfuss? Shaw?

Zero. No nominations. Interesting. Tough one. Roy Scheider. He rips off Jaws Marathon Man The Sorcerer Jaws 2 and all that jazz basically goes four for five but in a really big way I still like Jaws 2 I know you don't defend

you're saying that's the one that didn't hit though right no The Sorcerer Sorcerer is amazing Sorcerer is incredible I don't know if I've seen that one do you know what the setup, The Sorcerer. Sorcerer is amazing. I don't know if I've seen that one. Bill, you have to see it. Do you know what the setup for The Sorcerer is? I remember there's crazy stories about it. You would dig this.

It's basically a group of criminals who get hired to drive trucks through South America filled with unstable chemicals that might explode at any moment. They have to drive through mudslides and over rickety bridges

all while being chased by dirty cops through a South American... I would love that. Why isn't it on television? It had... So, go ahead. I was just going to say, it was just a really troubled production

and it had a really difficult time with the film company that produced the movie. It was recut. There's a Tangerine Dream score that is mind-blowing. Pre-Michael Mann grabbing Tangerine Dream to do scores. Holy mackerel.

Friedkin did this. This is Friedkin's first movie after The Exorcist. It was his dream movie. It was a remake of The Wages of Fear. And then if you go backwards, he's in French Connection,

which is when he hit it. Can I just give a shout out? And he's in Still of the Night with Meryl Streep, which is a really kind of solid thriller. All That Jazz is one of the best performances of the 70s. And I say that knowing I'm talking about Al Pacino and Dog Day and Godfather

and everybody else that we're talking about. All That Jazz is an incredible performance. It's an amazing movie. I remember I had lunch with William Goldman once. That's not a name drop. This is going somewhere, I swear. It is a name drop, though. Well, it is.

But I was like, I don't understand. Why wasn't Roy Scheider, why wasn't his prime 25 years instead of nine years? He's like, I don't know. He's like, he was as good as anybody that decade. Like, you look at his work in those movies. Like, he was probably the best leading man we had. Like, he beat out. I don't want to step on the, what's the cast, casting what ifs,

but he beat out some major dudes for this part. Spielberg saw something in him. I think there's something about what Scheider does in the, especially in the mid seventies here, where his probably his humility, humility or at least his willingness to be the second banana to Gene Hackman in French Connection, Dustin Hoffman in Marathon Man. Kind of to Shaw and Dreyfus, they have flashier parts and jaws. All that jazz is the one where he really is going for it.

And he's great in it. But in French Connection, it's mostly you're watching for Hackman, even though Scheider is great. And in Marathon Man, it's Laurence're watching for hackman even though scheider is great and in marathon man it's laurence olivier and dustin hoffman he's only in like 25 minutes of that he's really good in that movie he's incredible in that movie yeah it's he just he hasn't he's hasn't every man thing where he's not that handsome you know he doesn't necessarily seem like this he's handsome enough he doesn't seem like the smartest guy he's's a little bit provincial. He's a really good New Yorker transplanted to a beach

community in this movie. He's very unassuming. Doesn't have to be in charge even though he's in charge. He's a really good leading man. There's not a lot of guys like him right now. So, you're going to like this. I wish Wesley Morris was here because he'd get super excited. Michael Douglas basically had the

career Roy Scheider should have had. Interesting. Same kind of parts and every man type thing and the every man who gets in a predicament. Michael Douglas? And he just had, there were more movies for him to do that, but every movie Michael Douglas was the star of, Roy Scheider could have been the star of from the 70s. But Roy Scheider

never really plays a shit bag. And Michael Douglas' best rules, he's like a real sleaze bucket, right? I mean, not China Syndrome, but in Basic Inst Douglas, he's like a real sleaze bucket, right? Or now, or not China syndrome, but in basic instinct, he's kind of dirty and wall street.

No, it's more like he's, he's a likable person who made a mistake. Wall street's the only time he plays like a bad guy. That's an interesting question. I just think Michael Douglas is a little too handsome. Like I was looking at Roy Scheider while watching the movie last night, and I was like, he just kind of looks like one of my uncles.

He just kind of looks like that guy from New York. That works for the movie. It does. It's an interesting thing about I wonder if Roy Scheider was like cool old in the 70s and then just got old old in the 80s in terms of physically. Yes. He's good in 52 Pickup, though, in the 80s. You ever see that with Ann-Margaret?

That's a great movie. His 80s career wasn't good. I was looking at the IMD. It wasn't like he wasn't acting. He also had a run in the 90s in those late-night straight-to-HBO action movies when he was cashing checks. Roy Scheider? I pretend that doesn't happen.

Tough times. Hard times. I love Roy Scheider, though. And I think he's really good in Jaws 2. That's the last time I'm bringing up Jaws 2. I think he's good in Jaws 2 as well. Jaws 2, very good staff. Is there a Jaws 2?

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They needed a nice razor to fight off the shark and Jaws let's get back to that alright most rewatchable scene this is an unfair category because this is

the most entertaining movie the last 50 years you could pick 100 scenes I have two honorable mention nominees and then four nominees and then if you guys

want to add one or five nominees I'm sorry if you want to add one that's great the girl getting pulled under at the beginning is just great, phenomenal. That's an honorable mention? Honorable mention.

OK. Dry fist scuba diving and running into the guy's head, which we can talk about a little bit. The five nominees, the 4th of July shark attack and the woman running out and her son doesn't come back from the water is just gut-wrenching. It's just great stuff. The son mimicking Scheider at the table is my favorite scene in the

movie. I'm not going to make the case for most rewatchable, but that's the one where if you leave that movie, you're like, the director is really good at this. Good things are going to happen for the director. That's just like a classic Spielberg scene. My most rewatchable scene is not that, but the same reason.

The same rationale. The Indianapolis monologue. Quint dying. Just the last nine minutes when he kills the shark and then Richard Dreyfuss pops up and they laugh. Quint, head shake.

Let's paddle back. It's just so good. It's perfect. My honorable mention is when Hooper brings the two bottles of wine over to the house and Brody's basically tying one on and he opens it up. He's like, you might want to let that breathe and he pours half the bottle of wine into basically a pint glass

and they talk about how that you know that he's just basically like i'm gonna go and join this this other crew tomorrow but i'm gonna leave knowing that that shark is still out there yeah and he's like i have to make a report and that the dynamic between hooper brody and brody's wife is so great the character beats are so great the exhaustion on the face of brody is so great. The character beats are so great. The exhaustion on the face of Brody is so great. I always rewatch that scene. And it could have ended with Brody passing out and Hooper having sex with the wife on the table. Spielberg didn't want any part of it.

The wife's really good in this movie. The rain gray. And she's actually pretty good in the second movie. She's great in the second film. They push the envelope with Joss 3D and not as good at that movie. Very famously, Sid Sheinberg, the longtime Hollywood executive's wife. And Sheinberg worked closely with Spielberg over the years. That's the best case of nepotism in the 70s.

The worst case is John Travolta's co-star in Saturday Night Fever. Karen Lynn Gourney, who got cast by whoever the producer was in the thing. Yeah, that's not good. Single-handedly keeps that movie for being an A+. I would also want to nominate the town hall meeting after the July 4th attack when we first meet Quint. Yeah. Everything, I would generally nominate

any time Murray Hamilton, who plays the mayor, is on screen. He's just, he's throwing, I'm sure we'll get to him at some point. He's throwing 101, the whole movie. He's so funny and so good. But Quint doing the whole, I'll catch him for three, three, but I'll, you know, I'll kill him for 10 and that whole thing. Bad fish.

All those lines are great. Good call. What's most rewatchable, Chris? July 4th. I love as soon as the sun sets, everything that happens on the boat. Indianapolis speech, but everything that happens. Oh, the scars. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That's my favorite. That was the most fun rewatching it. 1,100 men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about half an hour. Tiger, 13-footer, you know how you know that when you're in the water, Chief? You tell by looking from the dorsal to the tail. Well, we didn't know.

But our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. I love Robert Shaw. I've always loved Robert Shaw. I'm going to step on Half-Fast Internet Research because I have some info on how they did that scene. Quite a bit of controversy around that scene, around the authorship of that scene. Not resolved. Not resolved.

People think Shaw ad-libbed most of it. Other writers claim to. i don't want to go it's too complicated going to william sackler who's a playwright was hired very early on he's a guy who wrote the great white hope and he came up with the idea to do a speech about the indianapolis and that quinn was on the indianapolis and then john millius was involved maybe maybe robert shaw wrote it himself that guy got Gottlieb was in there. Maybe Gottlieb was on set rewriting the movie the whole time. I mean, who ultimately wrote it?

Shaw himself was a playwright and a novelist. So this is from Half-Fast Internet Research coming up later. Shaw attempted to do the monologue while intoxicated as it called for the men to be drinking late at night. Nothing in the take could be used. A remorseful Shaw called Spielberg late that night and asked if he could have another try. The next day of shooting,

Shaw's electrifying performance was done in one take. I think I believe all of that. I go with that. Yeah, that sounds, I could see Robert Shaw being like, I'm going to do this drunk. This is how it should go. And just being a complete train wreck.

Now, if there's footage of that, I would like to see it. That should be in the internet. He's dead. Put it on. Robert just being a complete train wreck. Now, if there's footage of that, I would like to see it. That should be on the internet. He's dead. Put it on. Robert Shaw was a very bad alcoholic and died at 51 years old. He looks like he's 70 in this movie. I got to say, you're right.

He looks like he is blood alcohol level Narragansett in this movie. When I was doing the research and I noticed that he died when he was three years older than me and he filmed this movie when he was like my age I was like oh my god it's pretty crazy either I'm super old or Robert Shaw

is aged like in dog years yeah and only and the reason the only reason he's in the movie is because he was so good in The Sting which was produced by

Brown and Zanuck and they suggested him for it but in The Sting he looks like a million dollars he looks really young he looks old as hell in this movie well when

when you're drinking and smoking every day, every night. Nephew Kyle, I'll tell you. Nephew Kyle's right there. Robert Shaw looks like Daniel Craig looks now. He looks... It's crazy to see him in that. In the Bond movie. What's your most rewatchable

scene? I'm always in for the last... From when Quint dies all the way through. Smile Smile you son of a bitch. That whole thing is so good. And then Dreyfus popping up. But just for pure like one scene I still like him and the son.

Give us a kiss. Why? Because I need it. I really like that scene. That's a good father-son scene. It makes my heart warm. It's just good. It's the kind of scene that just doesn't happen anymore.

Movies don't have those scenes. They don't care about character development where there's three lines of dialogue and just people playing off each other. Not to get all artsy-fartsy. What's aged the best? I tried to narrow this down, but feel free to throw in ones. John Williams' score.

Quint. And the Hitchcock move of filming the shark. Those are three, and then I'm going to add just in terms of actually aging the best, what we mentioned earlier with the TVs and the HD, and how that has given this movie, in my opinion, a completely different life. Because if you watch this movie now and you have like a 65-inch TV and widescreen and HD and you're streaming on Netflix, it's like you're in the ocean.

Yeah. It's the best thing that ever could have happened in this movie. So what else would you add? in the ocean. Yeah. It's the best thing that ever could have happened in this movie. So what else would you add? I would throw in just the general way it captures summer at a beach town, both in terms of the power base being really business leaders, a mayor who probably has a little too much power, a police chief who's just trying to coast through the second half of my life with some ease some ease and then

that feeling of like everything that happens in this island happens in three months and everything is like sort of geared towards this community that arrives en masse on a boat and there's something very it's at once you know really exciting but it's almost like a little bit claustrophobic a little bit paranoid we're all stuck on this island. Those three months are so important that the mayor is willing to jeopardize. Yeah. And you think about it, you just think about, I remember, you know, being like, I remember working at swim clubs and stuff as a lifeguard. And it's just like the entire summer is kind of building towards July 4th. And then there's this lull and then it goes back up towards Labor Day. But it's really like, it captures the feeling of summer and the arc

of summer really well, I think. The only other thing I can remember doing that pop culture standpoint is the 90210 summer when Brandon worked at the Beach Club. Yeah, definitely. That was the second one I was going to say. Volleyball. It was either that or Jaws. I don't remember. Does Chris Ryan look like Juliette Lippman to you? I got confused

for a second. Give me the Long Island take on this, Sean, because, I was going to say. Was it Amity, New York or Amityville, New York? Amityville is a town on Long Island, which is where the Amityville house was. Amity was the fake Jaws town. Yes, Amity's the fake town, but Amity, I think the three of us, three

East Coast guys, three guys who probably spent our summers going to the beach. My dad lived on the beach. Jersey Shore, Long Island. Jersey Shore, Long Island, Cape Cod. You know, I mean, Amity feels to me like a combination of Montauk and Cape Cod. Like those two,

where it's sort of like, it's really nice, but there's also something kind of old and broken down about it at the same time. And the movie's shot at Martha's Vineyard. And I don't know. I mean, it's just very relatable.

I was at the beach all the time as a kid. And it just felt like the excitement and anxiety that Chris was talking about, where it's like you're in a wide open space, but somehow it feels really small. Simmons family Cape Week every year, which is happening right now. Actually, I'm not there. But we went in the late 70s. We used to stay always in Hyannis, Falmouth, places like that. And we went to go visit Martha's Vineyard for the day.

And that was the first time I realized, oh, you realize Jaws was filmed there. It's like, what? I'd only seen it a couple times. We didn't have cable and all that stuff. But I still remember walking around and seeing where they filmed the July 4th massacre, basically. I'm like, yeah, that's the beach. I'm like, oh my, oh, that's the sandbar. And just being completely freaked out.

But yeah, it is Martha's Vineyard, but it doesn't feel like that in the movie. No, and I feel like all of those communities, Martha's Vineyard, Cape Cod, Montauk, the Hamptons, even the Jersey Shore to some extent, 40 years ago were quaint. You know, they were small. They were modest. They were towns where families went for a week on vacation. Now they're like big business. You know, they're booming. They're like metropolises.

That's why you can still buy a house like on the freaking water. Yeah. And people who could buy houses back then had normal jobs. You know what I mean? Like there were teachers and sanitation workers, guys who work for the city. You know, my mom, teachers had summers off. They would have to go find a thing to do with your kids. When I was rewatching the movie last night,

I was noting to my wife that if you look at how Spielberg moves the camera, especially in the early scenes when we're seeing Scheider's character, he does this amazing job of just showing you what the town looks like. The camera's following him walking around after that first attack and just shows you like these houses are pretty small. The white picket fences that the kids are karate chopping you know that's very small stuff it's not it's not this like um testament to wealth which is what a lot of those places are now that's fair anything else age the best for you guys the whole other than the whole movie the music's really high

it's i mean it's two notes two notes that do all the work it's f and f sharp that's it i would say for me it's the it's the never seen the shark for most of the movie because i do feel like that became an iconic way to do a horror movie where it's like don't reveal yeah the uh the villain yet or don't reveal whoever but the funny thing is it wasn't intentional the the mechanical shark was so bad they had to kind of audible on the fire. And Spielberg even now says it was a godsend.

Which brings us to... What did you have for what stage the best? The summer stuff. Yeah, okay. I'm going music. Okay. What stage is the worst? The mechanical shark.

There's two scenes with it where we've talked about this before about is it okay to CGI just to at least get over the hump. What are the two? Quinn is one, I assume. Quinn's death. No, there's just two scenes where the shark's kind of up there and it's so clearly not a shark. Do you know which one specifically?

Well, it's not when he's chumming. Because when he chums halfway out of the water. Yeah, when he's like come back and shovel some of this shit. What does he say when he's throwing this stuff into the ocean and it comes up on the back? Yeah, he comes up. You don't think it looks good? Eh, they could CGI that. I think that that has such that iconic shot of Shider

whipping his head up and then the camera cap stops on him and he's got this shocked look on his face that even if the shark doesn't look that good, you're only thinking about Chief Brody. You're not thinking about the shark at that moment. The only time it really, really bothers me re-watching it,

especially on a big TV in my house now, is Quinn getting eaten. I'm like, that's a big piece of latex. Yeah. Like it just doesn't look like anything.

Like why is it stuck on the mast of the boat? Its mechanics are really bad in the, yeah. It's not good. They had a lot of issues with the shark.

But Bill was too busy thinking about lungs getting punctured for the first time in his young life. Oh, yeah. Then the other one that jumped out to me for what's aged the worst, no minorities at all. Yeah, it's weird.

Now, sometimes I think we overreact with this stuff because that movie's about Amity, Long Island. Maybe they didn't have minorities in the town that they wrote about. But I think if they do this movie over again, which I'll throw my body in front of it and all of us will, I don't think there's any way Hooper's not black. Yeah. Or you could argue maybe even Brody's black.

The one thing I— They're having a black person, and it's just—the movie's too white. It really does stand out when you watch it. The one thing I read—I mean, it's an imaginary community, so it's hard to say. But people have pointed out that there's not a single, single woman in the movie. Other than Mrs. Brody? Mrs. Brody's not single. And the mom.

Oh, not a single woman. It's all matriarchs and kids. And the only single woman in the movie gets eaten at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, I was going to say, I think she's single. I think she would call herself single. That kid from Greenwich probably wishes she wasn't before she got eaten. But there's been like a lot of commentary

around the idea of the fact that, I mean, it's a very masculine movie. The bulk of the time is spent with the guys on a ship. Yeah. But I don't know. I mean, politically, is it really that, it's not really very offensive. No, it's just a white movie.

Yeah. I just noticed it the last time I watched, which was probably, I don't that, it's not really very offensive. No, it's just a white movie. Yeah. I just noticed it the last time I watched, which was probably, I don't know, four months ago. It's been on Netflix for a while. All right, it's time for Casting What Ifs, presented as always by ZipRecruiter, the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons Podcast. Having a good movie IQ, very important. Just look at the decisions Spielberg made in this movie. Roy Scheider

he knew what he was doing well when it comes to hiring you don't need a high hiring IQ you need ZipRecruiter their powerful technology scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience for your job 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day

my listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS or you can free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS, or you can go to ZipRecruiter.com slash rewatch. Whatever you want to do, knock yourself out. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right. Robert Duvall turned down Brody. Why? He wanted to play Quint. Too young. Spielberg said too young. Too young and 75.

Robert Duvall is Brody Robert Duvall's had a couple of sliding doors career moments wanting too much money for Godfather 3 I think was a really bad move for him what? really screws up Godfather 3 no but I think

hot take I think Godfather 3 would have been good I think they had to throw away that script and redo the whole thing because he wasn't in it. And now all of a sudden Sofia Coppola is more involved. I'm telling you.

My Godfather 3 Defender. It is not a good movie, but I think that Andy Garcia role, they had to pump that up. It was just a bad move. He would have been awesome in that. Duvall is well within his rights

to say no to that. He wanted like six million bucks. I don't know. I'm glad he's not in Jaws. I think... So him as Brody, you're too young? What would have been your... He's not a bad Brody. He definitely is too young for Quinn. He's not New York enough.

Oh, I think he's too New York. Scheider feels like Long Island to you. He feels like New York City. He feels like Queens. Yeah. And you need that. You need that paranoia going on the water when you're from New York City because you're not used to that Queens. Yeah. And you need that. You need that paranoia of going on the water when you're from New York City because you're not used to that experience.

Yes. I'm going to convince you guys on Godfather 3 at some point. With Duval, I think that's a good movie. I agree with you. And by the way, wasn't that far away from being a good movie, even though I don't acknowledge it. There's like an hour-long thing about the people, elections. There's a lot of weird choices in that movie

Sofia Coppola has gone on to have an amazing career as an artist and director she's it's one of the worst performances in the history of movies

it's insane that she's in that movie yeah the Winona what if for Godfather 3 there's a lot of what ifs for that movie that's my point she skipped on the internet

which is her biggest win if Godfather 3 came out in like 2002 when the internet was forming Sofia's in trouble. She dodged a bullet. Lee Marvin

and Sterling Hayden turned down Quint. God, I would have loved to see Sterling Hayden. Sterling Hayden would have been really interesting as Quint. And his whole thing, the reason why he had to turn it down was because he basically was like a tax fugitive. Yeah, yeah. Not that Robert Shaw is much better. Oliver Reed

turned down Quint. Spielberg wanted John Voight for Hooper. So glad that didn't happen. Also came close with Kevin Kline as Hooper. That would have worked. Really early for Kevin Kline. But that would have worked. I didn't really see any other Brody candidates unless you guys heard.

I looked. There were others for Hooper. Right, but not Brody. It seemed like he settled on Roy Scheider. Oh, Charlton Heston was the other one. Yeah, H not Brody. It seemed like he settled on Roy Scheider. Oh, Charlton Heston was the other one. Yeah, Heston expressed interest. He would have been too masculine, too powerful, too confident. You know, Scheider's able to be a little bit more low-key.

But Hooper, it's like Timothy Bottoms, Joel Grey. Jeff Bridges, right? Yes. Joel Grey would have been weird. Charlton Heston was so annoyed with being rejected for the role of Brody that he later made disparaging comments about Steven Spielberg and vowed never to work with him. That worked out well for Charlton Heston was so annoyed with being rejected for the role of Brody that he later made disparaging comments about Steven Spielberg and vowed never to work with him. That worked out well for Charlton Heston.

Soylent Gray! That's it for casting what ifs. The shark was originally played by a not terrible shark. Dion Waiters Award. The nominees, the honorable mention nominees. We know who this one's going to Quint not eligible by the way he's in too much of the movie

Mrs. Kintner two strong scenes I mean yeah that's right she's looking around for a kid in the one scene it's a real Kendrick Perkins

like comes in starts a fight beats the shit out of Roy Scheider and then she's out. 10 minutes, 11 points, no rebounds. The other honorable mention nominee, Ben Gardner's head. Good. Yeah, that's good.

Great one. We'll get into the story of that in a little bit. But the obvious winner, beloved performance. We haven't even talked about him yet. Murray Hamilton is the mayor. He's in how many scenes? Maybe four? Yeah, four or mayor. He's in how many scenes? Maybe four? Yeah, four or five.

He's coming in hot. The long tracking shot to introduce him on the ferry, right? Well, it's not even a tracking shot, right? It's a stationary shot with the ferry, but you see the whole world change behind these guys, and he's talking to him about the politics of the beach community. My favorite Mayor Vaughn scene, though, is when he's like, you know, he's like,

this is not the time or the place to perform some kind of half-assed autopsy on a fish. And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see the little Kittner boys spill out all over the dock. Oh, my God. He's so evil and yet somehow likable

at the same time. They know exactly when to be like, let's take this guy out of the movie. Yeah. Martin, it's all psychological. You yell Barracuda. Everybody says, huh? What? You yell shark.

We've got a panic on our hands on the 4th of July. That's like built for a trailer. You need those like two sentence lines where you're like, I'm in. Yeah. I'm in. And that is just totally one of those lines. The movie just takes off after that moment. What was the Murray Hamilton backstory before this movie?

Because he's become that guy from Jaws. But he was actually a real actor who had done stuff. But I just, it was before my time. Yes. So I believe Murray Hamilton got hired because Steven Spielberg loved him in The Graduate. And he's got that very famous speech in The Graduate. Oh, that's right, in The Graduate. He was in a lot of movies in the 50s and 60s.

He's in some like Doris Day movies and he's in The Hustler. You can tell he peaked way early because the IMDb picture of him is like 20 years earlier of Murray Hamilton. Yeah, he's also on like every single TV show over in the 70s. Yeah.

He was in like The FBI Story with Jimmy Stewart. He was in a lot of movies at that time. And then he was in The Drowning Pool and Rich Man Poor Man like he actually had like a another renaissance in the 70s after Jaws there's such a great part it's kind of amazing nobody's remade this movie and I think that speaks to the ultimate legacy of how great this movie is this is one of those movies that you could just you could just picture somebody at the peak of their powers like Brad Pitt being like what's next yeah i'm gonna remake jar like crazy johnny depp but i want to be broody it also like you know you talked about how they basically you know they've never remade jaws but they've basically kept making jaws after this because of alien and aliens

yeah and in every jaws ripoff movie there is a mayor vaughn like it's paul riser and aliens it's the it's the guy who's like well like wait a second guys are we sure this is all bad yeah you know it's the guy in jurassic park who gets killed in the bathroom it's there's always like a politician or an accountant or somebody who's like and this could be good for business. Since we're talking about Maravon though, can we talk about what actually he's doing? Like what, how important is it to get these people on the beach

that he's like willing to sacrifice lives? This is a nitpick, but this was going to be in a pick of nits. In the book, the mafia is blackmailing him to keep the beach open. And in the movie, they couldn't fit in the mafia subplot. I don't think they need it. I actually don't either.

I think it makes sense because it's, you only, I think he's thinking, and look, this is also back, you have to remember that this is a time when like, this would not have gone viral. Like, you know what I mean? This would have been on page 16 of some newspaper. Shark eat somebody. You know, it's like, oh, shark attack. But if you make it into a panic, that's it for the summer.

And if it's for the summer, it could be it for everything. It could be it for certainly your career, but if not, multiple businesses. And I'm not saying like, I'm not identifying with Mayor Vaughn here. It feels like you are. But I'm making the case for why he does the way he does it. This should have been a ringer explainer. Why Mayor Vaughn wasn't a bad guy. Okay, I'm making the case.

Vote Vaughn. I mean, like, what do you want from me? I think this guy's got a good platform. It's pro-business. We thought we caught the shark. Prove to me we didn't. Wow. When did you start writing for the Federalist?

That was phenomenal. Shout out to Ben Gardner's head. Great. So half-assed internet research, which I'm going to jump into right now. Spielberg decided he was greedy for one more scream after he had gotten to almost the last cut. Reshot the scene in which Hooper discovers Ben Gardner's body. For those of you listening, that's the scene when Dreyfuss is scuba diving.

Really for... Not a good reason. Not murky reasons. It was just an excuse to get one more scary scene and he goes in the boat and the waterlogged head of that dude pops up and it is scary for the 98th time. It's never not scary. I never

don't get scared when that head doesn't come up. Great eyeball acting by Richard Dreyfuss in this movie. When his eyes blow up and when Jaws approaches him, when he's in the cage later in the movie too, you're like, whoa. He has some good scuba diver screams. So Spielberg used $3,000 of his own movie after Universal refused to pay for the reshoot. It was shot in somebody's swimming pool in Encino.

And they used the live cast latex model of the head attached to a fake body. And to simulate the mercury waters of the Martha's Vineyard, powdered milk was poured into the pool. Sounds like a new Ringer HQ. Which was then covered in a tarp. I have more half-assed internet research for this movie than I think we've ever had. Spielberg tried to get out of this movie at one point.

Do you know that? No. He did not want to be typecast as the truck and shirt guy and tried to jump to direct Lucky Lady for a different studio, and Universal blocked him. Can I give you a little note on Lucky Lady? Yeah. I assume you guys probably haven't seen it.

No. It's a weird Stanley Donnan movie starring Liza Minnelli, Burt Reynolds, and Gene Hackman. It's kind of lost the time. It was a hit when it came out. But the reason that movie matters is because George Lucas visited the set of Lucky Lady and basically picked off the

whole crew to make Star Wars. It was a British group of people. Really? Oh, it was like Pinewood or whatever? And he basically hired all of them to make that movie. No way. There you go. Good knowledge. Almost a Steven Spielberg directed movie. Spielberg insisted on shooting in the Atlantic Ocean

in Martha's Vineyard because the floor of the ocean was 35 feet. So if the mechanical shark fell to the bottom, they could go get it and stuff like that. And they had essentially a miniature version of an oil rig that they used to lower this had to like lower this rig into the water every day. And every day, basically the production of Jaws was a 24-7 operation of, if it wasn't being put in or out of the water, it was being industrial dried and then repainted and then the paint being dried like every single night. So they literally worked

24 hours a day for something like six months out there with all sorts of conditions of the East Coast summer. To nobody's surprise, Spielberg admits now that he should have done a giant Hollywood water tank. But he didn't know any better. And by the way, it's what makes the movie great is that they didn't do it in a water tank.

When they're out on the water, it feels so real. It feels so real, but disgruntled crew members nicknamed the movie Flaws. Shooting at sea led to many delays, unwanted sailboats drifting in the frame, cameras got soaked, crew members were sunburned and covered in salt, and one time the orca pretty much sank

with the actors on board. And it was a 55-day shoot that went three times as long. It was an absolute nightmare by all accounts. This is a bit from The Jaws Log, which is Carl Gottlieb's book about the making of the movie. We'll call it Half-Assed Offline Research because it's just a book. But you were talking about

you'll throw your body in front of any remake of Jaws. One movie I would watch is apparently, because they were there, it was real, basically it was a May-September thing. A lot of island romances. Oh, a movie about the making of Jaws? A movie about people who fall in love. It was a lot of guys who were working as teamsters

or working on the crew of Jaws. Netflix series. Meeting women who were working seasonally in bars on Nantucket. I think that would be a great... I would totally watch that. I love it. Ted Sarandos, you listening? And then you have somebody playing Dreyfuss and somebody playing Shire and somebody playing Shaw and Spielberg. And they're in the background

but Shaw's in. But it's basically Adventureland while making Jaws and who says no to that? It's a great idea. Chris, you amaze me over and over again. Every time I think you've amazed me the most, you do it again. It went from 52 days to 155 days. That's a long time.

Not good. That's a lot. This is amazing. And I almost thought this was half-assed internet research. So I Googled it. And apparently this was true. Before the last day of shooting, Spielberg heard rumors that he was going to get pranked from his mutinous crew because they hated him so much by the end of the movie. So for the last shot, the blowing up of the shark when it was being filmed, Spielberg left the set and went to Los Angeles because he was so afraid he was going to get pranked by everybody.

He was not there for the last day of shooting. Oh, that's right. He gets into a waiting car and then the car takes him to a waiting point. Spielberg always wins. It's an amazing thing for the, really the first big, big break of his career to go so badly because everything about Spielberg now

is how he's the greatest guy to work with. He's the most professional. He's a savant. I mean, he obviously learned a lot from this, but the way he's been able to manipulate this story in very smart ways. Like there's a documentary about the making of this movie that's as long as the movie called

The Making of Jaws. It was on that Laserdisc you pointed out. I think it was made for that Laserdisc. It's one of the best Making of documentaries ever. Not because it's beautiful. It's on YouTube. And everyone's interviewed in it too, which is rare. That's why it's so good. There's this great documentary

that I saw when I was a teenager. I think it's on Vimeo, but I don't know if it's available. It's called Visions of Light. It's this documentary about the history of American cinematography and Michael Chapman, who I think was the camera operator on Jaws, but Jaws has this absolute murderer's row of camera operation talent who all wound up being great cinematographers in their own right. Chapman talks about how when they first talked about shooting this and he,

he, you know, uh, he would go on to do raging bull, but like Chapman was like, Spielberg wanted to nail the camera down. He wanted to have everything on tripods with like long lenses so that you could see everything.

And he was like, if you nail this camera down on boats, people are going to be throwing up in the aisles because it would, this horizon would just keep tilting with the water. And that's what Spielberg's original idea was., this horizon would just keep tilting with the water. And that's what Spielberg's original idea was. Can you imagine everybody just seeing Jaws and curling, you know, and then like, that's why they did everything so handheld and moving around so that they could keep a kind of equilibrium

with the movie. But you imagine what would have happened if they had been able to show the shark the whole time and it was all tripod. It's so funny too, is when you're on the boat, it really feels like it's on a swivel. You know, the camera's moving around all the time. It's going up and down and around. And if it were stationary, it wouldn't work. You would be sick, like you said.

A lot more half-assed internet research coming up first. Let's take a break. Hey, let's talk about Belvedere. Produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries, Belvedere Vodka, the world's finest all-natural vodka. Crafted by a collective of master distillers, Belvedere is made with non's finest all-natural vodka, crafted by a collective of master distillers. Belvedere is made with non-GMO Polish rye, pure water, no additives, recognized for quality. Belvedere named the ISC World Vodka Producer of the Year in 2015, 16, and 17.

Their unparalleled quality reminds me a little bit of the run that Steven Spielberg had starting with this Jaws movie. Oh, my God. This, Close Encounters, E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark. Holy mackerel. We'll forget that 1941 ever happened. But the other ones, my Lord. Spielberg, probably the best director of all time. Has to be in the conversation.

Certainly the most successful. Certainly the most entertaining. Certain level of quality to everything he did, just like Belvedere Vodka. Enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere Vodka today. And remember to always drink responsibly. Belvedere Vodka, the sponsor of On Shuffle, our music podcast that, by the way, is awesome. And you should subscribe to it. Hosted by Micah Peters. This week, he's talking about Drake, the new album that dropped. I think there are 130 songs in the new album. He breaks down all of them.

It takes 20 hours. Check it out, though. On Shuffle, it's available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, back to Joss. Robert Shaw was such a nightmare on this set. And by all accounts, everyone's like,

he was a sweetheart, but once he had one drink, watch out. First of all, that means you're an asshole. You don't get to be like, when he was sober, he was great.

If you were drunk all the time. He was sober, he was awesome. The next lady, he was drunk every minute of the set. He kept fleeing back to Canada for tax purposes. He couldn't stay in the United States for a certain amount of days or he would have to start paying US taxes.

Three wives, 10 children, dead at 51. Wow. And his liver probably died before that. Also the man for all seasons and one of the best actors of all time. I love Robert Shaw. Tortured Richard Dreyfuss. Yeah. Richard Dreyfuss just openly talks about it on the documentary,

about how mean Robert Shaw was to him. He said his fatal flaw was that he was the most competitive man in the world, Robert Shaw. He made anti-Semitic remarks to him. At one point, he started calling Dreyfuss a coward, talked about what a coward he was, and he dared him to climb to the top of the orca's mast, which was 75 feet, and jump off into the ocean, for which he would pay him upwards of $1,000.

And Dreyfuss kept saying no, and he kept raising the price. And finally Spielberg intervened and was like, he's not jumping off the boat. We need him for the movie. This is like me. Drunk Robert Shaw. Just shot him. This is me asking Chris last night how we're covering lebron to the lakers you know i'm like just climb the mast 75 feet and dive off just publish every take no this is like when we're sitting around and you're like i will give you a thousand dollars

to tweet this oh yeah you're trying to make it sound like you're not mini robert shaw my best bit yeah i really i really identify with quinn you're not mini Robert Shaw over there. It's my best bit. Yeah. I really identify with Quint. You're also constantly drinking Narragansett in the office. You're Robert Shaw slash Quint. We learned last week in the rewatchables of Devil Wears Prada that Amanda's role model is Miranda Priestly. And that she loves the boss bullying. Spielberg named the shark Bruce after his lawyer

and called the shark Bruce for the entire shoot, which I thought was fantastic. Classic movie trivia. Hold on to that. You'll answer it at like a bar trivia one night. It always comes up. Makes sense. They weren't going to call the shark Jaws.

They're on the set of Jaws. The shark needed a nickname. The forward tracking zoom out shot when Brody realizes the Kintner kid is being eaten is called the Jaws shot now in film school. Do people even do that shot anymore? They should. It's so iconic. I love that shot every time.

I know, but I feel like you can't do it anymore because it's almost like cliche. It was just so masterfully used that time. Mythbusters. Remember that show? Yeah. 2003 concluded. Brody's shooting the scuba tank.

Could not work in real life. God damn it. I've been thinking that's always my get out of jail. I'm like, if worse comes to worse and I need to kill a massive beast, I can always put an oxygen tank in its jaws and then air shoot. Don't do it. We've learned from Mythbusters. If ever I have to kill a massive beast, is that what you say?

The writer Neil Gabler he analyzed the film as showing three different approaches to solving an obstacle science represented by Dreyfus spiritualism represented by Quint and the common man represented by Brody

and nephew Kyle I love the idea of a drunk shark hunter representing spiritualism well apparently he said the last of a drunk shark hunter representing spiritualism. Well, apparently. He said the last of the three is the one which succeeds and endorsed by the film. The common man wins. Okay. I think that's kind of an overthink, but I like it.

Yeah. That's kind of like science gets you three quarters of the way there, and then the common man takes it the rest of the way. This one shocked me. Well, we already talked about it in the book, Hooper Has an Affair with Brody's Wife. Footage of the real sharks was shot by the Taylors, who kind of got a weird career out of this,

Ron and Valerie Taylor, the shark shooters. I remember seeing them on different weird shows. Aren't those the two people who were like, and right here is where a shark took a part of my abdomen. Yeah. This is why I'm missing a leg right here. But they wanted a great white to attack the cage. So they used a little person and put him in a miniature cage

so he would seem much bigger or much smaller than the shark. They had a 14-foot shark and jaws are supposed to be 26 feet. So they put a little person in a little cage to change the proportions when they shot it. A little reminiscent of Fat Guy in little coat, Tommy Boy. Can I ask you guys a morbid question that we might wind up cutting afterwards? Yeah. You get bit by a shark.

Yeah. Do you want it to take the limb or do you want like massive tissue damage, but you get to keep the limb? I want the limb. You want massive tissue damage? Yeah, it can recover massive tissue. I'm kind of like a clean break guy. That's what I was kind of thinking. Because when you see those shark attack pictures,

and it's like, this person survived. And I'm like, yeah. But that looks like a wad of paper towels now, where your bicep's supposed to be. Yeah. Shark scars are different than cool knife fight. It's like, shark scars are like, that's actually, you don't have knife fight. It's like shark scars are like, that's actually, you don't have anything there.

It's just skin. I've only known one person in my entire life who would have had an answer for you instantaneously. Kevin Wilds. He would have been like, well, actually, Chris, you don't want massive tissue damage. I almost feel like we should call him. Maybe at the end of the podcast.

Half baked, Jaws ideas. No, I really feel like he's the only person I trust. I just didn't want to disrespect anybody who survived a shark attack because I'm sure that's a very traumatizing experience. I'm just saying personally when I've seen those pictures. Don't get Sean get in your head and over correct. No, he's not. I'm just saying that I'm not trying to criticize anybody who perseveres through such an event.

I'm saying personally, take the arm. Chris, I'll give you $1,000 if you tweet a poll about this. Alright, $1,200, you pussy! Quit. Jump off the mast! Coward!

Yeah, dry fast! So anyway, that cage attack when they filmed it it was so the footage was so stunning that Spielberg decided and what happened there was nobody in the cage

when they actually the shark attacked it the footage was so great Spielberg changed the ending and Hooper lives because when he's attacking the cage it wouldn't have worked because you couldn't have

CGI'd Hooper at that point. So single-handedly, that's how Hooper was saved. There's also a really cool thing. You know when the shark gets caught above the cage and he eventually pulls the rig down from off the boat? That's because the 14-foot shark that they were shooting actually did get caught in that space. And brings it down.

And pulled it down. So that was not what was in the script. That's not what was supposed to happen in the story and spielberg also rewrote the movie like that so that shot you see where the the shark is kind of flapping around above the cage and it's caught there is a real shark it's not it's not um it's not bruce fourteen hundred dollars tweet it chris tweet it chris tweet the poll be a man this is a really good one this might be my favorite piece of internet research that's half-assed Mrs. Kintner

couldn't figure out how to fake smack Scheider in the face and they decided she would just hit him each time and she hit him they did 17 takes of her whacking Scheider in the face and he said it was the most painful hour of his career.

Just getting slugged. That guy literally gets tortured in Marathon Man, doesn't he? No, I think Hoffman does. Peter Benchley, thrown off the set. What? Yeah, after objecting to the climax. That's what my half-assed research says. Peter Benchley makes a cameo in this movie.

Didn't like the scuba diving tank. He's the reporter. Didn't like the shooting of the scuba diving tank. He's the reporter. Didn't like the shooting of the scuba diving tank. Huh. Peter Benchley wrote the first script and then they were like,

this isn't a good script. He's like, you guys took my mafia subplot out. Sean probably knows this one, but initially the first time we were meant to see Quint was in a movie theater. Him laughing and ridiculing

and berating Moby Dick. And that was just how stupid it was. And driving theater goes away. That was our introduction to Quint. They needed Gregory Peck's permission. How does Gregory Peck own the rights to Moby Dick? Who knows? And even weirder, he said no,

because he didn't like his own performance of Moby Dick and didn't want it to be seen again. That's a whole other rewatchables. John Houston's adaptation of Moby Dick's not good. Do you find it rewatchable? No. Okay. The unwatchables. Last but not least, my second favorite piece of internet research. Spielberg observed that the first testing screening, that the first surprise appearance of the shark that you mentioned, got the biggest scream in the movie. And then he decided he wanted the one more scary and went and he did Ben Gardner's head. He noticed Ben Gardner's head got the biggest scream

because it became before we saw the shark. And then when we saw the shark, it only got like half of the scream it got before. Spielberg said it taught him a lesson. A movie can only have one major scare moment because afterward, the audience will be on guard. Steve Spielberg, everybody. Is that still true?

I don't know. I just like it. Well, I think it's different now because most scary movies advertise half their scares in the trailers and commercials. The audience is already on guard. So it's pretty tough. The homestretch. Apex Mountain. Roy Scheider? Yes. Pretty blanket yes on Roy Scheider. No.

No? No. It're all that jazz. Yeah. I think it's jazz. Okay. Since I've known you, Chris, you've always been all that jazz guy. Yeah, all that jazz is like a criminally underrated movie

from that time period. I think you're confusing best career moment with actual Apex. Okay. Explain the difference. Apex is like he's a guy who's not an A-lister, but a recognizable star who's been in some good things

and now is in this movie that becomes the biggest movie of all time and sets him up to do- So this is his career peak, is what you're saying? Yeah. Yes. I can't believe we've done 25 rewatchables yet and we're still negotiating Apex. Is this the best this person ever has been?

No. It's career peak. We'll have to go back and re-record it. With a little bit of best ever. He's not nominated for Jaws, and he is nominated for All That Jazz. Interesting. So you think All That Jazz is the culmination of the apex?

You could make the case that it's his last truly significant role. And it's the only one of these signature movies that he's in that he actually carries the entire film rather than sharing it with other people. Okay. Good case. Good case. No disrespect to Ben Vereen and all that jazz. Robert Shaw?

No. Ah! Ah! What are you going to say? Phil's really committing to the reenactment. There's a number of other moments. Man for All Seasons is his best. From Russia with Love.

He's fine in Russia with Love. The Sting? I think he's better in this. He's really good in The Sting. I love The Sting. He's great in The Sting I love The Sting he's great in The Sting The Sting is really good and never on television

and feels like it's it's two years before Jaws and feels like it was like 30 guys you're overthinking this think about when they go into his little barn and he's just like let me see your hands

you got city hands never worth a day in your life you've been cutting money I was waiting for you to break out a Robert Shaw impersonation. I've been wanting you to say bad fish for a long time. Bad fish. Do you want to do an impersonation? Because I'm kind of a half-assed astronaut.

Do you want to talk about Robert Shaw meeting Bono? If we remake this movie, we got to go with Bono as Quint. Excuse me, Mr. President. There's a shark in these waters, sir. Maybe you're too busy caring about the oil in the desert. I don't mean to bug you. Richard Dreyfuss, no,

but raises a good question. What was Richard Dreyfuss' Apex Bound? Oh my gosh. I think it's Close Encounters. You answer this one. I think it's Close Encounters. This is tough. He's had a lot of Apexes.

I'll tell you, I ride or die for Mr. Hollis. I knew you were going to say that. I fucking love that movie. I mean, that is definitively not the right answer. It's not the right answer, but I love that movie. I think it's Close Encounters. I'm going to say, shit, it must be Close Encounters. I'm going to say... Shit. It must be Close Encounters.

You could argue the Goodbye Girls. I know. That's like a shitty rom-com that somehow got everybody nominated for Oscars. And nobody would ever watch that again. I'm a big fan of What About Bob Dreyfuss, too. Oh, he's good in that. What About Bob Dreyfuss? Also, the bitter feud with him and Bill Murray.

What is that about? Oh, they hated each other. I think Richard Dreyfuss was like a major dick because on SNL they hated him too. There's a lot of Richard Dreyfuss might have been a dick

stories out there. The whole story about why he took this movie reveals what a dick he is. He went to the premiere of a movie called The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz

which was a Canadian movie and he went out to Canada and he saw the premiere of the movie and he saw himself on the big screen for the first time and he was like,

oh man, I suck. And he had previously turned down Jaws when Spielberg asked him to do it and he decided to do it because he was afraid he wouldn't get another job after the Duddy Kravitz movie Dreyfus I don't know not maybe I'm not sure about Dreyfus I think Robert Shaw was on to something get city hands Jeff I'll give you 1400 you wuss what is the name of the knot that he tells him to tie I'm not sure let me check. Could Danny Trejo have been in this movie? I mean, obviously. He should have been Bruce.

It's supposed to be a sheep shank, but in actuality, he ties a trumpet knot. Incredible. Danny Trejo could have played 20 parts in this movie. And could have been Quint if this was a low budget direct-to-video. The twist is if he plays Mrs. Kittner. In drag. Yeah. What if he was Mayor Vaughn?

It could have been Ben Gardner. Ben Gardner, yeah, sure. He's been a severed head before. Breaking Bad. The Joey Pants Award. Murray Hamilton is a great that guy. He's not a that guy if you're, I think, over 55. But I think for everyone under 40, he's just the mayor from Jaws.

They don't even know what his real name is. Pretty good. Unintentional comedy. Anything? Like I said, I feel like the shark when the boat is sinking and Quentin is being eaten. I kind of laughed. I have a new entry for the unintentional comedy that I didn't even know until I did the research. The next time I watch this, I'm really going to enjoy the Dreyfus, Robert Shaw scenes.

Thinking of Robert Shaw, just berating him, humiliating him between takes. One thing, actually, one scene that I always thought was really good, but then made me laugh a little bit when I just rewatched is when Shider's two sons are out on the water after the first attack.

And one of them's in the boat. He's looking at the book. He's looking at the book. And he's having a conversation with his wife. And he yells at is in the boat tied to the dock. He's looking at the book. He's looking at the book and he's having a conversation with his wife and he yells at his son to get out of the water and his wife's like,

it's okay. He's got a toy. We don't want him to be too scared. We want him to go in the water. And then she looks at the book and she sees an illustration of a shark biting a boat and then it occurs to her

that a shark could bite a boat and she's like, Michael, get in the water. He's your father. Get out of the water. She starts yelling to fall there! Get out of the water! She starts yelling at the top of her voice because she saw an illustration of a shark biting a boat in an old book.

Did she not know what sharks were? Bad job by her. Unintentional comedy is usually something that we think of as, oh, that's anachronistic or that would never happen or something. But I have to say that I, for some reason,

always laugh when that guy in the boat comes up to help Danny once he's fallen in. Yeah. And he's just like, hey, you guys need a hand there? There's not that many really telegraphed deaths in this movie, but that guy never had a chance. That guy's like, hey, you guys fell in the

water. Are you okay? It was definitely like somebody who was the bartender at their favorite bar that they gave a speaking part to. And that actually is what the ride becomes. At Universal Studios, it's that guy basically getting tipped over by the shark, right? Yes, yes. They're basically recreating the pond scene. Right before the shark attack, there's a song playing on the beach and it's Olivia Newton

John's I Honestly Love You. And I don't know whether that was intentional or whatever. I did the research on it. That was her first hit. That was like three years before Grease. I don't know if they snuck that in to foreshadow the terrible shark death and Mrs. Kintner loving her child or what was going on there. Picking nits, I think we covered all these.

Yeah. I still, I just have a weird problem with mayor Vaughn being sociopathically committed to keeping the beaches open. It just seems like a weird risk to take as a mayor of a small town. I'm pro Vaughn. I love his platform. I love how he looks out for business.

What's up with the woman who's, uh, people don't need to be policed, man. They can make their own decisions. looks out for business. What's up with the woman who's... People don't need to be policed, man. They can make their own decisions. Let them swim. All those tourists were asking for it. Best quote. Is there anything better than you're going to need a bigger boat?

I couldn't think of anything. Yes. Well, it's not better, but I don't know where else we would put this. So I want to talk about when they're comparing scars just because the low key best line in this movie

is when Dreyfus is saying I got the creme de la creme right here hold on you see that and he pulls his Henley down and his chest hair just sort of pours out of his shirt and Shiner says you're wearing a sweater. And then he says, no, it's Mary Ellen Moffat.

She broke my heart. It's just the best line, man. That's good. There's like a million great quotes in here. But the whole Scar's scene. There's a lot of great quotes. I'm just saying, you're going to need a bigger boat. The fact that it was ad-libbed by Scheider.

Yeah. I also really like- It's an iconic quote of the movie. It's actually one of the most misquoted movie lines ever because everybody always says we're going to need a bigger boat, but it's you're going to need a bigger boat. I also really like when Quinn gives them the

shot of home liquor, home-brewed liquor in the cabin and Scheider takes it and spits it out. And then when Hooper comes up and tries to take the glass from him, he's like, don't drink that. I like before Hooper goes down into

the cage and he's trying to clean the fog off the lenses of his mask and he says, I got no spit. And you're like, holy shit. He must be so scared. He's so scared. That's such an effective line of dialogue. What was the last line of the movie? Looks like we're swimming or what does he say? Yeah, it's like the tides in our favor or something like that.

Yeah, I can't remember. He's like, what day is it? Tuesday? Wednesday? And he's like, tides in our favor. And then they start swimming off. Yeah. But I mean, every single line of dialogue in the Indianapolis speech is incredible.

1,100 men go in the water and all that. I thought about having Chris read the entire speech as Robert Shaw. As Bono. As Bono, as Robert Shaw. Excuse me, Mr. President, do you remember a little boat that goes to the USS Union in Indianapolis? 600 people. I forgot for unintentional comedy SNL did a great

Jaws parody sketch within probably six months of when this came out with Belushi as Richard Dreyfuss it was one of the original Landshark ones with Chevy Chase and he's looking remember the scene when Dreyfus is looking at the autopsy

and he's like, oh, oh, gee, like he's like horrified and Belushi does the same thing as Dreyfus but on the table is just, it's basically like

just a couple of appliances. There's no, there's no sign of the body and he just goes for it and every time I see Dreyfus do that scene now, I think of Belushi, one of my favorite people.

Do sharks really have such a slow digestive tract that there's just license plates and toasters in there? Let's find out. Let's go out to the ocean. I don't want that Kintner boy falling out of the shark's stomach. Unanswerable questions. Did Mayor Vaughn get reelected?

Did Mayor Vaughn get reelected was on my list. Let's explore. I'm going to say no. Probably not. Because I wasn't running his campaign. How would you have repositioned his platform after this event? We became a national talking point. I threw us into the spotlight.

We all healed together. We raised shark awareness. That shark terrorized us for one week. I worry about the other 51 weeks of us being in business. This is great. Hey, I'm the one who hired Chief Friday. Yeah. So you can give me

credit for that. You left out one. And they've never had a murder there. Except by Bruce. Yeah, but like not man-on-man crime. Psychopathic shark. Yeah. How about if we had shut down the beaches on July 4th, that shark just would have come back the next weekend anyway.

It just would have been July 6th. That shark's coming for us at some point. It was inevitable. Better we got him now before six months later or whatever. Unanswerable question. Yeah. What happens in Quint's life between 1945 and 1975? About 7,400 cans of Narragansett.

Oh, way more than that. Okay. That happens. That's fine. You immediately had that math. What do you think we're at? You think we're pushing 100,000 with him? This is great.

This is my kind of question. So 365 days a year for 30 years. Case of beer a day? So he's living 10,000 days there. I think he's good for 10 to 15 drinks a day. Every day for those 30 years. So that's 10,000 times 15. So we're talking 150,000 drinks.

Wow. So that was all he was doing. So that's the over-under. Okay, so in between those 150,000 drinks, because he watched 800 of his friends get eaten by sharks and killed. That's the thing. He's inspired to become a shark hunter. Yeah.

And he develops this strategy around barrels to kill, to capture sharks and kill them. Do you guys really understand what Quint was trying to accomplish there? Yeah, he's basically like the shark is being pulled up to the surface so you can track it. Right, but then how are they going to kill it? With the harpoons. Just keep shooting it with the harpoon. Harpoon it to death. Yeah.

Drag it into the shallows. Drown them. In the book, that's what they do. In the book, they harpoon the shark to death. We're going to drown them. They added the scuba diving thing because it would make it more kind of a Hollywood ending. That's why Peter Benchley walked off the set. He was like, fuck this, man.

We got to harpoon that shark. First of all, Hooper's supposed to be sleeping with Brody's wife. Where's the mafia? He's so mad. Wow. Another unanswerable question. Did Jaws 2 happen they're making the Halloween remake

right now and they're pretending Halloween 2 and on never happened no it didn't happen because I didn't like it

so I pretended that it doesn't exist so that's a personal choice so would you if you were if you were gonna do that if you were gonna make Jaws 2

but forget the sequels would you set it in 1978 or 1982 or like do like a Strangers if you were going to do that, if you were going to make Jaws 2, but forget the sequels, would you set it in 1978 or 1982 or do like a Stranger Things vibe where you were in the 80s or would you be like, it's back after all this time? First of all, I thought your Netflix idea was really good.

I'm really proud of you. I'm proud to work with you and the growth you've shown over the last eight years. Is this my review? No, it's really good. That was a great idea. I was jealous of it. I'm proud to work with you and the growth you've shown over the last eight years. Is this my review? No, it's really good. It was a great idea. I was jealous of it. Second of all, I think Cobra Kai has shown a spotlight

on how to do this. You don't remake the movie. You go back there 40 years later and you have ties into it. But the Jaws sequels have taken care of the Brody family. So do you... No, I think you have... Mayor Vaughn's return. No, I think you have... Mayor Vaughn's return. No, I think you have the youngest Brody

is now the police chief. Right. Michael's 50. I think Alex Kintner's younger brother is like the vengeful evil mayor who secretly wants to destroy the town. Yeah. And then there's a shark.

And we're good to go. 10 episodes. Sign me up. Return of Jaws. You're looking at me like I have the power to green light this project. What's your level of interest? We've had Deep Blue Sea.

We have the Meg coming. There's never been a really, really good shark movie since Jaws 2. No, Open Water's really good. There have been a couple of good ones. Open Water's good but I never would want to watch it a second time. I enjoyed it once. A rewatchable shark movie is hard to come by Deep Blue Sea is

just out of control I thought The Shallows was good but would you rewatch it was that Blake Lively yeah Blake Lively yeah I liked that it's her talking to a bird

that's a nifty movie that's a 40 minute movie that they stretch in an hour 20 I guess I would watch the Jaws sequel show so it's not a remake it's like what Cobra Kai was.

I know what you're saying. We're picking up 40 years later. Maybe there's a whole thing with Amity is a totally different town now. It's gone totally commercialized like what we talked about before. Yeah. Just rich people.

The families have been knocked out. This movie just really lives and dies by the characters. It's got the shark. The shark's great. The tension's great. The music's great. The archetype of people is great. But I want to be there with Hooper and Quint and Chief Brody.

Dreyfus is still alive. Maybe Hooper's the mayor. He's running the Oceanographic Institute at this point now. He's in charge. In Amity. Maybe that would be like Hooper's moved back to Amity and all he does is dare people to jump off masts. Hooper's revenge.

He's like, I'll give you $800 to jump off masts. For $1,200? They're going to give you $800 to jump off this roof. I feel the same way about this idea that I did about Cobra Kai. When I heard about it, I was like, I'm in. I'll try it. OK. It's like a Swedish meatball at a cocktail party when the lady's walking around with the tray. Would you like one of these?

All right. I'll try it. I would try the Jaws remake. That's not a remake, but like a 40 years later. The sea is terrifying, right? It's not dope. It's terrifying. Oh yeah, the sea is ridiculous.

And I just think we can do better and come up with something new. Why do we have to go back to this story? We don't have to go back to it. We can come up with a new one. Okay. I would love to see a natural effect sea movie soon. I feel like the last few that I've seen, like a drift, it's just usually really fake.

Like the waves are fake. Everything about it is kind of, this felt so rooted in reality, even though it was fake. But it was just like, you just felt like these guys. And by the time they're shooting, I don't know when in shooting they did this, but when they're doing the stuff that's on the boat towards the end of the movie,

the Indianapolis speech, the scars, you feel like those guys have been hanging out with each other for a really long time. They feel so familiar with each other. You watch the scene when they're getting drunk and you feel like the three actors are actually getting drunk. And we've seen movies botch that. And this one, it actually worked. And it's probably been responsible for some botchings over the years.

In college, probably ripped off while drunk with my friends the show me the way to go home thing 500 times. That was just a thing that people would do. We would put the movie on and you'd get drunk and you'd just start aping those guys doing that stuff and saying all the lines. It's like weirdly memorable in that respect. One other thing we

forgot to mention, I think one of the biggest reasons this movie did well is it's the ultimate what would I do if I was in this situation movie. No, just like we've all gone to the beach. Oh, what would happen? Would I

go out there if there was a shark? Would I let my kid go out there if there was a shark there's that's hard because we don't and this is an interesting nitpick is quinn really fucks them you know he destroys the radio he is like we're staying out here to get this fish and those guys are like i mean hooper is probably a little bit more like i would i want to get a look at it but brody's like let's turn back around let's get the friggin coast guard or whatever we have to do. But like, this is, we are in over our heads. So what do you, what are you sort of proposing here? Is that you, what, at what point are you making the decision? If I'm Brody? Or just like, are you saying it's, it tells you, it's like, you always are putting yourself in

their position. So would you knock it on the boat in the first place? No, I put my position more in just everybody's been to the beach and everybody wonders what's the worst thing that could happen. Whether it's like you get caught up in the undertow, you get attacked by a shark. It taps into what you were talking about earlier with just how it captures just going to the beach in some small town and you just go with your family.

And like, what would happen if this goes wrong? I mean, the ocean probably kills more people than roller coasters, right? You know, it's like nobody's really, people get scared of the water, but like the idea that you just go and you're like, I'm just going to let my children

go out into this thing that's this gaping maw of chaos. That's wild that we do that. With waves and currents and weird shit. Watching it again, I was thinking to myself, I'm really glad I'm not a boating guy. Really glad I'm one of those guys

who's not like, let's all go out on the ocean for two hours. Like, that's not, I have really glad I'm not a boating guy. Really glad I'm one of those guys who's not like, let's all go out on the ocean for two hours. I have no interest at all. You haven't had a good boat experience. I grew up on Long Island. I've had a lot of boat experiences. There's a certain boat experience I think that's... The sailboat thing

scares me after sleeping with the enemy watching what happened to Julia Roberts. There would be a boat channel. There's enough boat movies now, I think. A boat channel? Boat channel. Definitely a catch. Boats with a Z.

Yeah. There could be a prison channel, jails or bars with a Z. I feel 100% confident saying directly to you that's not a good idea. The boats? That's just not going to- What's on boats?

Oh, Perfect Storm again. Yeah. What's on boats? Last one. Who won the movie? The candidates. Spielberg, Robert Shaw. By the way, we've been doing the rewatchables now.

I don't know how many we've done. It's always been an easy answer. It's been down to two people. Yeah, this one might be a little hard. This is the most people we've ever had for this category. Spielberg, Robert Shaw, Roy Scheider, Dreyfuss. Probably not, but it has to be mentioned. Then John Williams.

And then the shark who won the movie I want to say Spielberg and I think that it's sort of like winning any championship involves a lot of luck so I think in this case while acknowledging all the things that broke right and wrong

in this movie it's Spielberg it sets up his career for the next 30 years it changes movies and it's Spielberg. It sets up his career for the next 30 years. It changes movies. And it's still, to this day, we could go through every movie that's set on the water. We could go through 98% of the movies that have made since Jaws.

He made the most rewatchable, entertaining movie of the last 40 years. And didn't get nominated because he went against the all-time directing gauntlet that's probably ever happened to the Oscars. Who do you have, Sean?

It's indisputably Spielberg. This movie, under someone else's stewardship, is a complete fiasco. And somehow, someway, he had enough artistic instinct to cut the edges every time. Every time he needed to cut the edges

on something that wasn't working, he did it in the right way. Every little choice he made, the shark's not working. We'll make it a movie about how you can't see the shark. You know, the score is too small. It's okay. It's effective. It'll work. This actor turned me down. It's okay. We'll go to this actor. You know, the script isn't working. We're going to have it rewritten by five times by nine people. Every single little thing he does works. And it literally invents the most historic director career ever. And he saved Richard Dreyfuss' life

on the mast 75 feet. Dreyfuss might have jumped. Yeah. Shaw was calling his man. I'm just going to quickly make the case for Quint. I agree with you that it was Spielberg. Robert Shaw,

Quint. I would say it's a top 10 non-Lady Man character that we've ever had. Way up there. I can't imagine anyone else playing him. Ever. In the last 50 years. Pulling anyone out

and putting them in that role where the guy became Quint. He's just perfect. It's perfect casting. He seemed like he was a drunk, angry person. Turns out he was on set. On the late 90s, early 2000s movie news message board in a cool news,

there was a guy who just went by the name Quint and he was a pencil sketch of the Quint character and he would deliver news about how X-Men was in development or whatever. But that's how iconic the character was that somebody who was at the time an anonymous tipster about the movie industry

was just Quint. He could stand alone that powerfully. It's a performance that could have really gone wrong in the wrong hands or not been as powerful. I think other people could have played Shiner. I think other people could have played Scheider I think other people could have played Dreyfus

yeah I think other people could have directed the movie I don't think they would have done it as well but Quint I think is one of a kind

but I agree Spielberg you know when you think what was his age when he did this? 26? 27 something like that yeah

it's ridiculous we rave about Ryan Coogler and he's kind of the Spielberg for now. He's the closest thing I think that we've had, right? But Steven Spielberg

was directing episodic television in Hollywood when he was 19. Yeah. I mean, he had been training his whole life to do this. He's a prodigy.

Yes. All-time prodigy. Yeah. Jaws. So not the best movie ever, but the most entertaining movie ever. It's in my top three. No question. Most best movie ever but the most entertaining movie ever it's in my top three

no question most entertaining movie ever yeah I think so it's the movie that in the last 15 years I've probably watched rewatched the most

we have a couple of like white whales so to speak still on the list that I feel like we'll have in this conversation the other two that are on this are

are the other two movies my top three entertaining the ones that we're waiting on the other two movies. My top three entertaining. The ones that we're waiting on. The only thing I would say about Jaws is from age six or seven, whenever you want to let your kids watch this for the first time, all the way to 90 can affect people the same way. Works at any age. Yeah.

It's a good call. E.T.'s like that too, but I'm saying like the emotions this pulls out. Yeah. E.T.'s sentimental. This movie isn't sentimental. You never are like, I'm going to skip this part of Jaws. E.T.'s sentimental. This movie isn't sentimental. You never are like, I'm going to skip this part of Jaws.

You know why it's not sentimental? Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

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Spotify, Stitcher, Google, wherever you get your podcasts, it's there. Thanks to Gillette. Gillette offers a variety of shaving products for every guy, regardless of his personal style, skin needs, or budget. It's the best. It's been the best since the early 1900s. Not a lot of companies can say that. Whether you want three blades or five, the Gillette 3 and Gillette 5 razors have you covered all under $10. That's high performance at a low price. Get Gillette performance delivered to your door. Find Gillette 5 at Gillette on demand.com subscribe today. We are going to be back at some point on Friday with a new BS podcast until then. Enjoy your holiday. Talk to you soon. I don't have.