The Bill Simmons Podcast - Jayson Tatum Plus Ryen Russillo's Big Ringer Announcement | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 405)

Episode Date: August 24, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by the newest podcaster on the Ringer Podcast Network, Ryen Russillo, to announce his new show, 'Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo.' They talk pickup basketball, NBA offseason, and more (2:17). Then Bill is joined by Celtics forward Jayson Tatum to discuss his basketball idols, playing at Duke, getting drafted, the 2017 draft class, the Celtics' playoff run, adding to his game, and more (30:17). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shout out to everybody at Full Sail. Coming up, a big announcement from our first guest. I'll leave it a mystery. It's in the title. You know who it is. Ryan Rosillo. An announcement from him. And then I have two children, Zoe and Ben. And then I have an unofficial third child. My man, Jason Tatum came on the podcast. That's coming up first, Pearl Jam. All right, Ryan Russillo is on the line.

This was short notice. We could not get him to drive all the way from his police station. His police station is in South Bay Bay all the way to our offices. But he is on the line and more importantly, he's going to be joining the ringer and working with us on a new podcast named by Ryan Rosillo. What's the name, Ryan? It's called the ESPN 10-Day Contract.

No, you didn't suggest that one. That's actually not about 10 day contract is a good title. The dual threat, because I'm going to be doing pro football, college football, and because I'll be working with you guys too, which I think is the coolest part about all of this coming together in the last week or so that everyone was like,

Oh my gosh, you stayed at ESPN. They're like, yep. And so can I just get out of the way and tell you thank you? I really appreciate it. Oh, thank you. I'm so happy this finally worked out.

We've known each other for a long time. We had a lot of fun working together at ESPN. You co-hosted a Grantland basketball hour with me. What was that, like the fourth or fifth episode? Way back, it was like four years ago? Yeah, I got in early. Yeah. It was funny because

I remember Zach came on and the idea was if Zach tanked, then I was going to be on all of them. And then I watched and I was like, oh, Zach's pretty good. Yeah. I felt bad. You're rooting against Zach. I was like, oh, they're

going to use him more. So we're going with dual threat. We should mention, um, runner, runner ups for the pod runner up for names. We had, uh, they, and they weren't even good runner ups, but what was, what was the one? West coast offensive was one of them. What was the other one? West coast for Sillow was another one. West coast defensive. I didn't quite get, and then we were going to do first and friends, but I didn't know that I could come up with enough friends to deliver on that.

I sent you a list. First and Friends sounded like a rival to Good Morning Football on the NFL Network. It was like some other channel had their rival morning show, First and Friends. But maybe it's like on Fox. I don't know. Yeah, then I

thought Pardon the Interception would be a good one. If we were going to do just like a ton of Jameis, Jameis Winston stuff. But then, you know, I feel like that's. And first and 40, I threw out there.

I've always, I've always liked the, the idea of a first and a ridiculous yardage amount, but it was always dual threat. Dual threat was the right one because you'd be talking college, you'd be talking about pro. We're going to be taping it on Tuesday nights.

Explain why we're doing that. We're going to get you ready. I'm going to go ahead and after just week one when people play the Citadel and whatnot and Eastern everywhere, I'll give you my playoff ranking way too early. And then once the rankings actually came out, because I believe this is like a real resume bill.

I don't think you even do this. And we've already agreed on the money, so now I can't ask for more. But I think I'm the only person to consistently, or it's Reece Davis and I. Maybe I misspoke. Reece Davis and I are the only people to speak to the playoff committee commissioner or the head, the leader of the playoff committee every week for the entire inception of the college football playoff.

Because I would always have on both guys, both guys that did it. I've had on every week in the history of every ranking for the playoffs. So I'm a perfect guy to then react to them and tell you why they're doing what they're doing. Because everybody gets mad and goes, they're not consistent. They're not consistent. I go, what they don't want to do is, is be, they don't want to say anything defining so that you can hold it against them later on. They're actually really smart with it. So that's why we'll be doing it that time of the week. So after the NFL and then once the college football rankings get rolling. So it's going to be college and pro. It'll start with the rankings.

Then it'll go to wherever you want. You'll have some friends on. We're going to try to produce it so that it moves a few different times over the course of an hour or however long it is. And it'll just be you, your football buddy, Ryan Russilla, doing his thing. Yeah. I need some tackle sound effects. And then other than that, just a lot of, you know, as soon as I change the topic.

Yeah. Oh, like a, like a whistle, like the referee whistle. Yeah. Okay. All right. So that, so, so this is going to be 22 weeks and we're going to start it next week and you can subscribe now on Apple podcastss or wherever you get your podcasts. So that's one thing. The other part of this, which I think people are going to be a little

surprised by. So I have Cousin Sal on my football podcast every Monday throughout the NFL season, we do Guest Alliance. He's the first recurring guest I ever had. And it's usually a 22, 23 week run. And then it ends the Monday after the Superbowl. And then after that, it moves to the NBA. You are going to step in on those Mondays and from the Monday after Superbowl week, all the way through mid July. We'll know when it's over, when the shitty batch of NBA free agent signings, when we're in that mode and like Michael Beasley for one year, 1.4 million, that's when we'll stop. Yeah, right. Chucky Atkins on a $900,000.

Yeah, yeah. That's when we're done. But so for 22 weeks or so, every Monday, you and me, NBA. And that's it. We're just going hardcore. You're coming in. We're going to start arguments. We're going to do our thing.

You've heard us do this. You and I talk basketball. I've done it a bunch of times over the last year. We're going to make it a regular thing. So that's the other piece of that. I'm really excited about that. I'm excited to know every Monday I'm going to have somebody to talk to.

I can't wait. Like I had all these weekend trips planned and now I realized that I have to sit around and watch more basketball because I don't want to fall behind. But I do feel like it's a little bit like the intro to the real world where it's going to be like

what happens after week four when Bill and Ryan stop being friends and start being real. Right. Yeah, I know what world where it's going to be like what happens after week four when dylan ryan stopped being friends start being real right yeah well i know what our first argument is going to be where you're just going to disagree on something and then it'll get like weirdly angry probably around the 58 minute mark to june it's like i don't know if you're going to be on the following week right right and then all of a sudden the ringer announced for Sillow's G league podcast where like, I'm not with you on Mondays anymore. And I'm like,

Reno is on fire guys. Yeah. If you're not on, on a Monday, we'll know, we'll know something bad happened. Either, either we can't find you or you and I had some sort of argument that we

hadn't resolved yet, but we are. And I, can I ask you a follow-up to that? Yeah. Who had more influence on you making the decision to pair us together? Cause some people would have wondered about it and people, all my friends would always ask me like, why don't you just go to the ringer who was a bigger influence,

my performance, your dad or Malcolm Gladwell? Oh, wow. I mean, really, I like to, those are my three crowdsourcings. No, we just, we always, we just always had fun shooting the shit about basketball. And I always feel like, especially on a podcast, it's a little more informal than it is on radio. And every time we've done a podcast, it's always been too long, which is a good sign

because it always goes like an hour and a half, two hours when, you know, cause we just hadn't seen each other for a while and we had a lot of stuff to argue about. So I think being able to do it every, every Monday. Also like that's really when the season starts, you know, we have, there's a lot of foreplay. The season starts super early now, early October or mid October, You get through Thanksgiving, you get through Christmas. Around January, there start to be some trade rumors, but the season really gets going, I think, early February. That's when the college hoops gets going. You really start getting focused on the draft and the lottery and playoff picture.

There's always one big trade, so we'll be ready for all that. Then, obviously, April, May, June, July is a goldmine. There's something every week. Yeah. I mean, July, July ended June, July has become probably as much fun as any period.

I mean, to think that those two weeks might be the best time to talk basketball. Just it's crazy. Yeah. It's especially like the finals ended early last year. Remember it was a four gamer. And normally that would be like basketball would be dead. In 2007, basketball was just gone. And then we had to get the Odin Durant thing going because the Spurs swept the

Cavs. But now it's just like the finals end, immediately we're moving on to the draft. And there's probably a lot of reasons for that, but I think one of the best reasons is just the intelligence is so much better. You have all these draft experts, you have the Ringer NBA draft guide, you have all the YouTube clips, you have all the wannabe coaches. And it just feels like we have real opinions on these guys now versus 15 years ago when you and I were both living in Massachusetts. Who did we look to in 2001 for our draft info? don't even was Chad Ford even on the internet yet I think that's just when he got started yeah he started doing like he was I

think Chad was like the first guy to like do links yeah seriously like he would start putting these links together and uh I remember like I used to bug the shit out of him but that was 03 yeah did I ever tell you when the Celtics had all those first round draft picks I wanted to bug the shit out of him, but that was 03. Yeah. Did I ever tell you when the Celtics had all those first round draft picks? 01. To trade all of them for Gary. Yeah, 01. And they had the three picks in the first round. I called the Celtics because I wanted them to trade those three picks for Gary Payton.

This is what a psychopath I used to be. I wasn't in the business yet. I was still bartending. And I called the Celtics for an office. I was like, are you guys aware? Because I wanted a rumor to start with Gary Payton. And then some pencil pusher got on the phone with me. She's like, yes, sir, we are aware of that rumor.

We have no comment. I was like, okay, thanks. And I hung up and played Madden. So that would have been 10, 11, and 21 for Gary Payton? Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah, that actually- It totally was worth it.

I mean, unless you were a Kedrick guy well they whiffed on two of the three picks there was a whole NBA draft.net world going on we did Rafe Bartholomew

did a column or did a feature about it for Grantland a few years ago I never really knew that world was going on that was one of those things unless somebody told you

you wouldn't have known it was so hard to find things in the internet in the late 90s early 2000s but um but yeah and then the drive site's amazing i mean it was great because it would go 60 deep the crazy thing is they haven't updated the software since yeah now you just get a virus when you go when you go there just your computer shuts down but so we have the nba one uh look, there's nothing really to sell. It's me and you talking basketball. It's going to be every Monday. And I think people know what that is at this point. The football podcast will be interesting because usually people with pods, they usually hyper target them now. And it's like, you do a college football podcast or you do a pro football or you

do a gambling. This one's going to try to combine both. And you're probably one of the only people that I think could do it. I think you have to not only be at a high level of expertise on it, but kind of have the savvy of which stories to pick because you're trying to cover all the stuff you care about in 70 minutes or whatever. And it's hard. Basically, I'm going to be interested to see how you respond to the challenge. This is a tough one. Well, if it's anything like the last 15 years, I'm not worried about it

because I just sit there in front of the TVs with a legal pad and go to work. But I think the college thing is easy for me because I did nine years of traveling. I mean, I've been to all these places. I counted it up with the Antal and Stanford TV the other day where I said, I, I've been to all these places. Like I counted it up with Stanford Steve the other day where I said, I think I've been to 40 campuses and then another five or six like neutral site places.

So, you know, and I've already had a couple places reach out to be like, well, you do a podcast here and do a game. And I'm like, you know, let's start talking money. We'll have the CEO, we'll have Kyle, CEO Kyle, you know, crunch the numbers on this stuff.

But, you know, look, I love college football, and I think it's a little like the NBA in that it's such a soap opera that it's fun to talk about. But just like, you know, Van Pelt or Cannell and I, every Monday, like, I want to treat the podcast a lot like our Monday show during season. And that whatever the headlining thing is, and a lot of times that is the NFL, that's where you start the show and then you just split it up. So, you know, sometimes it'll be a little NFL heavier and then once the rankings start happening and everybody's freaking out about all the bias that isn't actually out there

and people just being totally freaked about their program and thinking they're all getting screwed. It'd be weird if people accused me of SEC bias working for the ringer, though. That'll be a weird one. Yeah, because we, I mean, college football, we have a couple diehards here, but I don't know what people would blame us for being biased for. Obviously, we had the Boston Philly for the pro sports that we take a lot of shit about.

But college, college, not really a lot. The other thing we should mention with the football pod, it's not like you're going to avoid this stuff, but you're going to avoid this stuff, but you know, you're going to talk football. You're going to talk college football and pro football. And it's not going to be a place where you're going to be talking to somebody for 35 minutes about, you know, chapter 93 in the anthem controversy. I don't want to hear that. I want to hear your take on who should be number one.

I don't want to do it. Yeah. I almost retired on the air once during the radio show where I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I think, look, I'll just say, I think other people in the industry seek it out

because it's easier to pontificate about the anthem for three hours or one hour or whatever because it's easier to do that than sitting there watching 12 hours of football every Sunday. I'd rather watch 12 hours of football

and talk about football because I actually think that's what the listener wants. And I think people really miss the mark with all this anthem stuff. I think people have lost it thinking that this is what everybody needs. And it's almost like the Tebow thing. There's a point, you do the headlines, and then you make the mistake of continuing to do it way beyond the

fans who wanted to listen to this stuff. So you're right. I'm sure it will come up at some point again because the NFL can't seem to avoid it. But I want this to be about what's going on on Sunday and Monday. And you're going to have a couple recurring people from your whole world will be popping in every so often. You can talk about that roster at a later date. I didn't tell you this,

but I think Nephew Kyle's going to be your producer. Oh! We went with the A-team. Yeah. I love Kyle. I'm a huge kyle fan you guys don't have a lot in common other than um a love for dive bars and uh the ability to stay awake for long periods of time that's enough that's it and uh romantic issues kyle how's that going what's the update today we'll cover the rest of this on ryan's phone yeah by way, you have carte blanche to ask Kyle about his romantic life whenever you want. Whenever you want to dig in.

I hate that. Can I let him smoke while he produces my podcast? Absolutely. We just built a new studio for that. We'll get one of those air vents that just suck the smoke out of the office. Smoke here. The old bartending days. Those things were awesome.

It was just like a big sound machine. And the owner would be like, no, no, it's eating all the smoke out of the office. Smoke here. The old, yeah, bartending days. Those things were awesome. It was just like a big sound machine. And the owner would be like, no, no, it's eating all the smoke out. You're like, I think I have one. One other thing

with our NBA Mondays, which we're going to have to name, we're probably going to have to put a restriction on Celtics Talk. Or maybe that's just a segment where we only allow each other, where we only allow like seven minutes and that's it you know what we could do i don't play chess but that timer thing

seems to come in handy what if as soon as we like we have a determined number of minutes that we're allowed to talk oh you hit the button as soon as you talk celtics you hit it and then if you take up like three minutes and then you stop and then i look down and say okay we only have 47 minutes left speed chat like what they use in speed chess I like it so we'll get one of those chess timers and when the Celtics start we'll just hit the thing and we have like four total minutes

I'm worse than I am I mean that's not even like I can do it you you could be sitting there talking about the Suns draft picks and all of a sudden Rodney Rogers comes up it is an issue. It's something I'm going to really work on this season because there's only going to be like four fun teams to talk about and the Celtics are one of them and it's going to

be really hard not to veer into them. We have no idea how good they're going to be, but they're going to be loaded. I'm already worried about February NBA content as if it's some sort of like left hand dribbling exercise. I got to work on this part. And I play, Hey, by the way,

I played pickup hoops yesterday too. What? And I had each first game down here with the gang. Yeah. We're running around with a 20 year old. Outside? Outdoors? Yeah.

Full court. All right. Don't get, don't get hurt. Don't get hurt. Now you're, you're juggling two gigs. You're still doing a ton of stuff for ESPN. You're doing TV stuff. Lord knows what else. Um, don't get hurt.

I still have one more big thing, but I'm not ready yet. Yeah. But it was great because these guys are like, do you want to run? And I looked, I was like, look how small they all are. I was like, yeah, I'm in. So, so you're like, uh, I'm trying to think of a, like a physical non-stretch forward now just clearing bodies out boxing out what one kid got switched on to me but not defect like he i switched into him and he was really small and he put his hand up in the post it was like

and then he turned around he's like i'm not And it was really funny and I laughed to him. I said, that's the most self-deprecating switch I've ever heard. Anyway, I don't know. I'd like to think Camby in college. Oh, interesting. You compare yourself to a seven-foot athlete. I like it. I was 17 yesterday.

By the way, LeBron hit that point last year when a smaller guy was switched on him. Like when Curry would get switched on him in the finals and Curry would do the thing where you put your forearm elbow up and you kind of ram it into the guy to keep your position. And LeBron would just turn around with complete disdain. Like, are you kidding me? Do you realize how strong I am? And then just go like basically through him for a layup. I don't, I really feel like LeBron, Wilt, and Karl Malone. Oh, I'm sorry.

And Shaq. Karl Malone and I have fourth. LeBron, Wilt, Shaq are the three most overpowered. They just had to be the three most overpowering NBA players we've ever had. Right? And LeBron's the shortest of all of them. Carmelone?

Carmelone fourth. Carmelone on a fast break was pretty terrifying. He's a mailman? Yeah. He's a mailman? What are you going to do when it's raining? Oh, who said that? That was the Charles Oakley interview.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Charles Oakley. That's right. He said that to me. He said to you, what are you going to do when it's raining? Like, it was unbelievable. It was so funny. Oh, my God, that was so good. Have you checked in with him since?

Do you have a part two coming up with Charles Oakley on how not to play cards? We, uh, it was, it was a dicey summer for Charles, which we're waiting for him to work through it. And then hopefully he could make his return. Maybe he'll be on NBA Mondays with us. One of those. That's the thing. It's not someday, some Monday, it won't just be us. We might have a third party in there. Drag someone in. Call somebody on the phone. You never know. We'll keep you

on your toes. You know what I do for the football pod? Yeah. I want to have an NBA GM on with an NFL GM. I want those two to nerd out about the other guys. But I need to find an NBA GM that understands the NFL stuff and then vice versa. A working NBA GM or somebody who's between jobs as an NBA GM? Well, I can think of plenty between job guys.

Yeah, they're available. I can still think of working. Yeah. I think that'd be great. But then again, you know, I don't know. The NBA guy might be boring and be like, wait, you can just cut guys? Yeah. Are you guys still playing Enos Kanter?

Yeah, if the NBA worked like the NFL, it would be kind of... I don't even know what it would be like. Yeah, Enos Kanter would be gone. Joakim Noah would be going badly for like a month. I do wonder, though. I have soccer friends who basically are saying the NBA should just do what

like soccer does where guys can switch teams and there's transfer fees. And I, I'm not a hundred percent against it. It's definitely, it's definitely would, would be bizarre and hard to get used to. But at the same time, I, I don't know if it would be much different hard to get used to. But at the same time, I don't know if it would be much different than what we have now. We still are going to have the haves and the have-nots,

no matter how it shakes out. Did you see any world where that could happen? I don't know, man. I mean, I don't think it's an old school, new school. It's the reality of it where you have to think to yourself, like, okay, if you're investing, like what's the point of having a great front office if all you can do is bounce whenever you want to bounce, right? Like what's the point of putting all this stuff? Like I used to think it'd be awesome if you could just read, I've always said this with you, but like if you could just redraft the entire league or if you were the NBA and said you get to keep one guy,

it would make it the most exciting event in the sports calendar of any sport. Would baseball be saved if you just redrafted everybody? You're just better at evaluating people. Hold on for a second, because somebody's here to fix my garage door, and I have to tell them. Hello?

We're keeping this in the podcast. What's that? This is staying in. Yeah, we're not taking the podcast. What's that? This is staying in. Yeah, we're not taking this out. Somebody's here to fix my garage. My garage door is like a guillotine right now. There are bolts snapping off of it as it closes. It's so dangerous.

I do feel like the NBA is moving closer and closer to that soccer model just because we're seeing the shorter contracts and year after year at least a threat somebody might leave, right? Everybody's convinced everyone on the Warriors is leaving except Curry now. That's the, you know, we run out of things to talk about the NBA in August.

Yeah, the Durant thing's the new thing, right? Like the predicting Durant thing. I mean, look, that Warriors thing, I've always thought, like when Van Gundy's like, oh, they're going to win the next seven or eight. You go, look, they're awesome. I love them. It's incredible. I don't root against them. But this shit's going to be over quicker than people think.

Yeah. Because that's just how guys are. Yeah, at some point, I don't know what year it'll be, but Durant will have enough titles and he'll be ready to do the next thing. I personally, if I were the four of them, I would try to stay together as long as possible. I think Curry, when I did the pod with him last week, he definitely, the way he was talking about how the new blood that Cousins was going to bring to them, just somebody different,

new character in the mix was really going to help them. And I thought that was interesting that he saw that because I felt that way about last year's team. It felt stale, didn't have enough kind of wrinkles and new bloods and mystery. And if they can keep those four together, but keep mixing up who's around them, I think it could last a few more years. And I don't know if we're going to see a bigger threat to them than that Rockets team was last June. Cause that's about as close as you're going to come defensively to stopping them. I don't,

I don't see another team doing better defensively than that, you know? No, that was real. I mean, it was real. And I just, you know,

when I brought this up before about the Rockets, can they emotionally match where they were knowing how close they were? Like you would hope that would drive you. Like when San Antonio lost to Miami, it literally drove them from game one until the next year's championship. They pissed away that title. That is so impressive

and also so hard to do. I don't know if Houston could do the exact same thing. That one you had, with that San Antonio, you had Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Popovich, a foundation of years and years and years together that was able to withstand a devastate, the worst loss we've ever seen in the finals, basically.

And with that Houston thing, it's a bunch of guys that really haven't been together that long. And I think that's what I'm watching out for, you know? Yeah, totally. Because I don't know roster-wise. I don't think they're as good. I don't know roster wise. Like I just, I don't think there is good. Um,

I don't think that's really saying I'm surprised that people argue that they're fine. Uh, because I thought a reason was so important for them, but you know, Daryl finds a way to kind of make this thing, you know, look,

I know we've done this before, but like the fact that Daryl actually brought a group together to challenge what we were seeing as maybe the great roster in modern history in the NBA, that's incredible. And if I were him, I'd have a hard time still sleeping because, and I'm sure he does. I'm sure he does because he's a super competitive guy

even though his delivery is the same. He doesn't ever feel like his emotions are up or down. I'm sure Daryl, like, I've sat next to him in Celtics playoff games where the other team was hitting shots and seeing him, like, they're supposed to start missing, like, they're 7-10 to fast to even out. And I'd be like,

I don't know, dude, I'm like, they just keep hitting shots. I was surprised, oh, I forgot to add, this is actually what I wanted to do. You and I coming together on a Monday basketball podcast, is that, I don't think we can really say the Splash Brothers because I guess you'd be

Curry and I'd be Clay. Although, I would kind of feel good in a way that like super talented but sort of overlooked. That would actually fit the bill. Or is it a little bit more like,

I don't know if it's going to be Harden, Chris Paul or no one thinks it's going to work. Nah. It's already worked. Did I get hurt? Nah, it's already worked.

Right, but then I get hurt and you're lazy at strip clubs, like in a later tier in your life, which would be weird because I don't think you would do that. Or is it like a little like Chris Childs now in Houston when Scott, Scott Layden just threw it all together with the Knicks? Because I would definitely be Chris Childs. No, I like your Curry Clay analogy. And I do think you've been overlooked. I've been a fan for a long time.

I'm excited we're finally getting to work together in official capacity. We'll make a lot of threes. We already know we can play together and we can space the floor as well as anybody. And we can work with third parties. Somebody wants to come in, we'll do it. And if I go to China by myself, I'm going to get weird too.

Yeah, there's no question. And people talk about what a great teammate you are. You just have to get to know them. That's the clay thing, right? Yeah, no, there's no question. And people talk about what a great teammate you are. You just have to get to know him. That's the Clay thing, right? Yeah, no, Clay's the best. You just gotta get to know him. Alright, so we're calling it Dual Threat. You can subscribe now. Please go. Subscribe.

Leave a nice review. Couple stars. And then we are launching this thing next week. Dual Threat with Ryan Rosillo and we're doing that the rest of the way on the Ringer Podcast Network and then when football season ends, you're moving over for a Mondays on the BS podcast for the rest of the season through mid July. I'm excited.

Thank you for, thank you for doing this with us. Well, thank you for making it happen. And I, I still always kind of laugh the first time we ever really talked when I think we were at fours and you were there getting married or the Friday before. And your dad was staring at me recite the Veritech, Derek Lowe, Shawshank

Lime. And he just looked at me like, when's this guy going to get out of here? And you were like, no, no, cool, dude. You're like, good work on the zone. And I was like, yeah, all right. All right, folks. You guys all have a good weekend. All right. It's a big, big day. I don't, I don't, I really don't remember this. I don't remember much anymore all right, all right, folks. You guys all have a good weekend, all right? It's a big day. I really don't remember this. I don't remember much anymore. I will tell you, my dad was among the most excited for Rosillo Mondays on the NBA pod. Very, very fired up about it.

So there you go. He came full circle with my dad. Good stuff. I'm a big fan of the dad. Thank you. All right, check it out. Dual Threat, welcome aboard, and we'll talk to you soon, Ryan Rosillo. All right, thanks. All right, thanks, man. All right, before it out. Dual Threat. Welcome aboard. And we'll talk to you soon,

Ryan Rosillo. All right. Thanks, man. All right. Before we get to Jason Tatum, let's talk about Starbucks Double Shot. Starts with bold Starbucks coffee blended with milk for a smooth, creamy, delicious flavor enhanced with ginseng, guarana, and B vitamins. Double Shot available in six delicious flavors, mocha, vanilla, hazelnut, white chocolate, coffee, Mexican mocha. It's an energy coffee drink that not only tastes great, but gives you the energy to go from point A to point done. You know who's sharper when they have more energy? Me.

It's a good thing to have in your fridge. I wish I had one right now. I'm doing this read at five in the afternoon. I wish I had a little more energy. I wish I had a Starbucks double shot. Guess what? Nephew Kyle drank all of them. Starbucks double shot, energy to do the things you actually do. Find it in your local convenience store. And now without further ado, Jason Tatum, here he is. All right. Taping this on a Tuesday afternoon, LA time, another hot day in LA. Jason Tatum is here. Boston Celtic came within a minute of the finals

last year. Are you still replaying that or did you move on? I think I've moved on a little bit looking forward to next season, but I definitely replayed that for a while after the season, just trying to get it through my head. First year that we were so close to beating the best player in the world to get into the championship. But that just makes me more excited for next year. What's your biggest memory from that game other than the three and the dunk on LeBron? And then you kind of stared him down.

I don't even know if you did it intentionally. I think my emotions got the best of me. Besides those two, what was my best memory? Crazy crowd. Yeah, just the atmosphere, everything's on the line. It was our second game seven of that playoffs, but obviously the most important. And I feel like everybody in the world

that watches basketball was watching that game. Yeah, it felt like an event. And it was really LeBron. It was just a classic LeBron game. It was, you know, there was a time in his career where maybe the crowd could have gotten to him a little bit. And those days are long gone. But still, the Celtics had a chance to win. When you had the dunk and the three in the dunk or whatever the sequence was, it was like five minutes left.

I really thought the Celtics would win at that point. And then it was one of those things. The shots just weren't going. The same threes that were going in all year. That was it. They just kind of ran out. And then the same thing happened to Houston the next night. It was the same thing.

They were allowed in the three the whole year. It just didn't happen. You guys got counted out heading in the playoffs when it got announced that Kyrie was out. And everybody was like, oh, well, they're done. They might win one round. And then you became the Nobody Believes in Us team, and you got a little momentum. When did you start to feel like you could actually make the finals? Well, when Kyrie got announced that he wasn't going to be, it was March, end of March.

I remember we were in Portland on our second West Coast road trip. Well, when Kyrie got announced that he wasn't going to be, it was March, end of March. I remember we were in Portland on our second West Coast road trip. And we played Portland without him. Phoenix, Sacramento. And. Was the West Coast swing. Then maybe Denver. It's one of those Utah.

Utah. Yeah. So we play, we play Utah, Sacramento, Phoenix, and Portland. All like when we, once we found out he wasn't going to be with us.

And I mean, we figured we probably could be Sacramento and Phoenix, but we beat, we beat Utah and we beat Portland. And, you know, from then on, you know,

that's when I really knew like, you know, Utah and Portland were two really good teams. Yeah. we had, we still had 20 games left to figure, you know, our new team out, um, you know, without him to find a way and figure out how we were going to be during the playoffs. And, um, you know, our team, our team was unique in the sense that, uh, you know, it was just going to take a collective effort every night. You know, I don't think the opposing team really knew who was going to be, you know, the leading scorer, you know, that night. And we just played really well as a team. And we were young.

We had a lot to prove because obviously we heard all the talk about, you know, people didn't think that we were going to make it. We were probably losing the first round. And, you know, we had a lot of young guys, like including myself, that, you know, wanted to prove to the world that we belonged here. And you had the two Marcuses who think they could beat anyone at any day, no matter what the odds are. No, I would take those two against anybody in the league. Were you worried Marcus Smart was going to leave?

I mean, anything's possible, obviously, in the NBA. But I knew, you know, we wanted him and he wants to be a Celtic. And, you know, it's where he belongs. I can't see Smart in any other uniform right now. Did you text him? Say, don't go? Send him like an Amazon gift card? No, I didn't want to pressure him.

But he knew that I wanted him to stay and everybody on the team, we need him. What'd you learn from going against LeBron in that last round? I learned a lot. Because you kind of went to grad school. You're in Duke for one year and then you went to LeBron school. True.

I learned that he was definitely the best player in the world. No question about that. And just how dominant he is. And, like, it's tough because, you know, people will go on TV and be like, the Celtics can't let him do this, or they got to take this away. It's like, we're not letting him do anything.

Like, we're trying. But, I mean, he's just a he's a great player had you ever defended anyone even remotely as strong as him as strong yeah no not that position no not that can move like he can no because the fair i remember you played him a bunch of times that year and a couple times he posts you up and you do the forearm to the back thing and he like really takes that personally when people do they just kind of goes through people which started about three years he posts you up and you do the forearm to the back thing and he like really takes that personally when people do they just kind of goes through people which started about three years ago there's really no way to defend him on the low post no i mean you just gotta i mean it's basketball

the team sport so it's a lot of guys that are really really really tough to guard yeah you know an nba just by yourself so uh you know got to trust in your help defense, really. Well, that one's tough because he can pass, too. Yeah. So it's like, and he's like, they get that computer brain, and he's, oh, you're going to do this? Well, then I'm going to send the ball this way. And he knows, it's almost like he knows ahead of time

what everybody's going to do. In that you had consecutive rounds. You had Giannis, you had Ben Simmons, and then you had LeBron, who are three of kind of the unicorns in the league right now. The Giannis thing, you guys, I'm not going to say you figured out,

but you at least, you took away his coast-to-coast stuff and you took away the paint and you made him beat you outside. What happens if he gets a jump shot? I don't know if we figured it out. I'm pretty sure he still averaged. It worked. He still averaged 27. Yeah, he had like 26.

He had 26 a game. I guess you kept him mildly in check for considering how much he had the ball. Yeah, I mean, it was just a collective effort. Like you said, we to get back on defense because you know we know when he gets it he's coming down full head of steam yeah you know trying to get to the basket then trying to create so we just have to load up and wall up and uh i mean the thing that really not surprised me but i noticed he knocked down probably not 85 90 of of his free throws. Yeah. It's a good sign for his jump shot. Yeah.

The move that he has where he does that, you kind of have a similar move, but you kind of go to your left with it and you do that spin shot. He has that. He covers 20 feet in two steps and you don't realize that's happening until he already did it. It seems like a travel, but he's just kind of an alien. Then Ben Simmons was the other one where you were basically the same game plan. Don't let him get to the rim, keep them kind of outside the paint. And it seemed like that worked too, but you need the big guys. And I don't know. It's just, I was amazed you got to the finals with basically playing seven guys, you know, 20 games.

Plus you got, you hit the rookie wall. When did you hit the rookie wall first? In like December, January? January. You could feel it. Yeah, I could tell. So what did you, what'd you feel? Like your legs were gone?

What was going on? It was physically, mentally, like it would, we'd play on a Tuesday and I I'd have, like, 22 points. And then Thursday, I'd have two points dribbling the ball off my leg for getting the plays. And I just couldn't understand. Like, some days I would have it, and other days it was just like, I don't know how to play basketball anymore. Yeah. But then after the All-Star break, I think that's good, especially for first-year players, just to get a break from it for a little bit.

And you did the whole All-Star break. They put you through the whole machine, rookie-sophomore game, pictures with a million people, interviews. Was that fun or was that grueling? A little bit of both, but I looked at it as I'd rather be here than not be here. Yeah. He would have been frustrated if he didn't make it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Well, next year, maybe you make the actual game. That's the plan. Could have marked that down on the old calendar. It's in Charlotte. Yeah, go back. What kind of feedback were you getting from the guys you were playing against? Because I've noticed the all-stars and the veterans, they definitely will embrace the ones that they think are going to be good.

And you could see that with LeBron and you. And even Kobe did that detail thing about you. And you felt like you were getting momentum as it went along. But what was happening during the season? What were you picking up from people? That's one thing that I was, I want to say, about because, you know, there's a lot of stories, you know, as a rookie coming in that, you know, veterans aren't as accepted to young guys. And, you know, some like I heard a lot of stories where, you know, some guys best for like mean to him or tried to get him in trouble or wouldn't help him out because I mean it is a business at the end of the day and they were looking at as he's going to take my spot competition he's taking

the money that I want and so that's what that's one thing that uh I want to say I was nervous about but then it was totally opposite you know especially the guys on my team like everybody all the old guys from Kyrie Baines Smart, Horford, Morris like they just tried to help me out as much as possible and as any way and it was a total shock because I heard so many stories of how the older guys don't like the younger guys right but it was even like from guys on the other team after after games would come up you know and you know tell me you know things i could work on and see what they like in my game and uh you know that was that was big

because you know for young guys obviously we're in the nba but we still kind of look up to a lot of guys yeah that are older than us your guy was lebron right lebron as a kid no my favorite player was kobe and oh so when he did the detail on you, that was a big deal. Yeah, I watched it like 70 times. That was my favorite player ever. But LeBron was one of them. Carmelo, Paul George, KD. Guys that just, you know, play the wing position.

Who did you borrow from when you were learning how to become a basketball player or you're just like your own style i took a little bit from everybody especially like i studied a lot of paul george and mellow when i was in high school yeah uh those are two guys that you know i always would watch film on and and kobe kobe just from the day i started playing like he was the reason I wanted to play basketball. Like from a kid, like my earliest basketball memory was of him. So how old are you, 20? So you started watching basketball.

So the right around when he had like his 81 point game and stuff like that, like you remember that? Even before then, like when I was like four and five, like I just always tell my mom, I always asked me what I wanted to be when I got older. And I was just like, I want to be Kobe. She's like, you want to be in the NBA? It's like, no, like I want to be Kobe.

Like he was just my favorite player. Had his posters, all his jerseys. He was, that was my guy. Well, I don't like that he's trying to he's become your friend and you're working out with him in the summer you know he's not he's a laker we don't like the lakers the lakers were my favorite i used to hate boston yeah well we we need to fix that no i love boston now you're now you're you're in boston for the next 20 years you gotta you might have to dump kobe you might have to get rid of him. We hate the Lakers. Now they have LeBron.

This could be the rivalry could be back for, I mean, man, 60s, 80s, last decade. Now it could be on again. What kind of stuff does Kobe tell you? Does he do that Mamba mentality and all that, like the mind game warrior, all that stuff? Or does he actually work with footwork what is he doing with you uh you know i i got a chance to you know just sit down and talk to him first you know i got to meet with him and we talked about a lot of things uh basketball related non-basketball related uh you know just talked about i tried to get into his mind and see how he went about things.

Just trying to get better each year. You know, how, what he wanted to improve on year after year so he didn't backtrack or be complacent. You know, just to, you know, his, you know, will to just be the best and just striving to get better every year. And that's one thing I found interesting. And, you know, when we were working out, you know, he was, he said his thing was just trying to break the game down and make it as simple as possible. Yeah. And, you know, he said the year he averaged 35, you know, all he worked on in the summertime was, you know, pivot foot, you know, trying to play off both pivots. And he said, that's all I did for the entire summer. And, you know, obviously I expanded off a move from each pivot and a counter move to that. But he was like the entire

summer. That's all I worked on, you know, when he averaged 35. Yeah. Well, it seems like Bird, Magic, Michael, Kobe, all those dudes would go into the summer and they'd try to add one thing that didn't have the year before. And, you know, LeBron didn't really do that for a while. And then I think when he went to Miami, he finally started adding stuff. And now like he, even just in the last two years,

he has that crazy fall away now that I don't think he had two years ago. Now I wonder if he's going to play the four more this year. What does he add with that? But I always respected that. But so what, so what are you going to add for next year? What's in the hopper? But you can't tell us?

No, I can share. Is it going to be a secret? I'm going to find out in the preseason. Just working on getting stronger and, you know, shooting threes off the dribble. I got a lot of open shots last year. Yeah. I don't really expect that to happen as much this season.

So being able to create my own shot from the three off the dribble this year is something that I wanna get better at. Though watching you as the playoffs went along, it was weird, you had like three, and you had like four seasons. You had a great first seven weeks, you hit the rookie wall. Then you came back in the regular season and you looked like you did the first seven weeks. You hit the rookie wall. Then you came back in the regular season,

and you looked like you did the first six weeks. And then in the playoffs, I thought you actually went up a level. But the biggest thing that clicked, it seemed like, was the defense. And you just kind of – the switching thing. Like, how complicated is that to figure out from scratch, especially coming from college? It's very complicated because there's a whole entire new system. Yeah.

New coaches, new terminology. Had you ever played like that before where you were, instead of covering somebody, you just switch, switch, switch almost every time? Yes, but, you know, I guess each team has their own different rules, when to switch, how to switch, when not to do it. So it was just tough learning our system. But that's what preseason is for.

And that's where I credit the older guys to helping me out a lot. Because you got to learn on the fly. It's funny like with that not only do you idolize kobe but he talked to you because i thought he really lucked out with the situation he got drafted into because a lot of times especially like a top three pick you send him go you go to a crap team and you go to a team that either has a new coach or a coach who's about to be fired and a gm that either just got there is about to leave and probably an owner that's not great. And they had this five-year plan. The new guy gets

shoved in. You're expected to do everything right away. You're losing 60 of 82 games and it just sucks. And Kobe went into a situation where he had Shaq and the team was good and they made the playoffs and within a couple of years they were in the finals. You were in a situation, they really leaned on you. The Hayward thing, which was awful, gave you even more minutes than you probably would have gotten, but you end up playing 100 games. That's about as good of a fortunate situation,

I think, as you can get in the NBA. Because think about it. You could have gotten on a team that was like 15 and 67 that had veterans that were completely threatened by you and some coach that didn't know what to do with you like did you appreciate that as it was going along or you're just caught in the season no I definitely was you know very you know grateful and thankful to you know where I got drafted to. I don't think there was a better situation that I could have gone to just to, you know, go from Duke to go to Boston. You know, I think, you know, just coming from Duke really helped me out a lot.

Yeah. Because we were always, you know, the main focus and always on TV and in the spotlight in college. And, you know, it was no different to where I got, you know, when I got to Boston. You know, it was no different to where i got you know when i got to boston um you know just a great organization i was talking to guys on our team that have played for other teams and saying that like boston is really different you know yeah the support um just the way they run things you know every organization from what we hear you know it's

not it's not great it's not the same so um you know they say they say Boston is from, you know, the best or one of the best organizations. And, you know, it wasn't a better situation for me to go to. You took it personally, you didn't go one. To go number one in the draft? Yeah. You could admit it now. No, of course.

I mean, I grew up, I always wanted to be the number one pick. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't. You're a competitive guy, though. You're like, really? I'm not going to be number one? Okay, I'll file that one away. But it wasn't like I knew that on draft night.

It was kind of like, I feel like the media had a lot to do with it, saying that Markell and Lonzo were going one and two. So I kind of just not accepted it, but really I kind of understood it's probably not going to happen because that was just a talk. Markel and Lonzo went two. So I just figured I was going third, maybe fourth. I knew I was going three or four. Well, you would have gone one if all the Lakers had to do was bluff and pretend

they were taking you second and the Celtics wouldn't have been able to do the trade. That was the thing that really helped the Celtics. I joke with Danny all the time. Should have just took me number one. Could have kept a few dollars in my paycheck. Yeah, you would have made a little more, right?

Tell him he owe me some money. You should tell Magic Johnson. All you had to do was bluff and I would have gone first. You would have made me little more, right? Tell him he owe me some money. You should tell Magic Johnson. All you had to do was bluff, and I would have gone first. He would have made me an extra. Yeah. I forgot about that, the salary cap thing. Did you get to know Markell at all or no? Yeah. Me and Markell, we're really close.

We work out with the same trainer now. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I see him at the gym. Drew, right? Yeah, Drew. So I see Markell all the time. How's he looking? He's looking good.

He's getting better. I'm excited for him because obviously he wants to play and he wants to get out there and show people what he can do and I'm excited. I'm buying Markel's stock right now. I think

he's too fast and he's too athletic. There's no way he shouldn't be a good NBA player at some point. He just has too much skill. I don't know what happened to him last year, but it seems like he got through it. But I don't know. I'm always going to bet on athletic ability.

I love Lonzo too. I think he's going to be really good. He got hurt midway through last year, but I think that draft has a chance to go down as one of the all-timers, especially because Mitchell was later. I still think Fox is still going to be really good. I like Markkinen. I think that draft's going to be a special one.

Did you know all those guys before the draft, just from AU circuits and stuff? Yeah, I knew everybody that was in my high school class. I knew all of those guys. Because you were always in the top of those lists and stuff. Yeah. So we've always played against each other in AU camps and USA basketball, college. I went to college with Frank Jackson, Harry, Luke Canard. So I knew basically everybody.

So from eighth grade on, you started to know these guys? Yeah, pretty much. Who did you think like in eighth, ninth grade was going to be the best one at it? Like who, did anybody really stand out at age 14? Harry Giles. He was, he was by far the best player in our grade. And I'm pretty sure everybody, you can ask anybody that was in our class, like even in high school, like Harry, Harry was the only player that I would have said

in high school was like, yeah, he might be better than me. Really? I saw him in summer league, he looked good. Our senior year, he didn't play one game and he still was ranked number one. So it shows you that he was, he was the man in high school. Wow. I'm excited.

I hope he's going to come back, and obviously he has a lot to prove and show everybody what he can do because he's basically taken two years off. In high school, he was the best player. I saw one of those team USA, like under 18 or under 19 or whatever one of those, and he was in when he was healthy.

And it was like, oh my God, that guy looks like KG. Like he literally was the same type of, it was like KG had cloned himself as a 17 year old. I used to call him Chris Weber. That's what I thought he used to play like. Oh, that's interesting. Could he pass like him back then? He could do everything at 6'11".

I'll tell Danny to trade for him. Danny can sneak in. Sacramento is easy to trade with. You just call him. Just offer them things. They say yes. Harry Giles went to Duke, though, right? He only played like seven games, or he just couldn't get yes. Harry Giles went to Duke though, right? He only played like seven games

or he just couldn't get healthy? Yeah, he went to Duke. Harry, he's like my best friend. We were, during USA basketball, we were roommates and we were roommates in college. I think, I don't know how many he played in college. At Summer League, I was impressed because he was moving around well but you could just tell you could watch enough basketball you know within

like five minutes you could tell he had a feel for the game and when they picked him i was like that's risky like that guy's had two knee surgeries already but you know now with modern science and stuff um what made you go to Duke? Coach K? Coach K probably. So he sucked you in, huh? That's why we have JJ Redick on the, he's one of our podcasts. Coach, he talks about the magic of Coach K.

He just sucks you in. Yeah, because I only took one official visit in college. It was my junior year. I wanted to commit on the spot. Yeah. But I waited a little bit. But, you know, Coach K, I mean, I don't think there's anybody like him. Yeah. Did he pull the thing where he had Kobe on his cell phone and called him for you?

No, he didn't do anything like that. Come on, admit it. He didn't do that? Nope. Nothing? Uh-uh. Texted him? Nope.

I never know if those stories are true about his recruiting stuff, where he has the guys on the speed dial. Oh, you're a big Carmelo fan? I'm going to get him on the phone right now. Carmelo, it's Coach K. No, he didn't do that. How did you get bounced in the tournament that year? I forget, with Duke.

We lost to South Carolina in the second round. Oh. Was that a worse loss than the game seven Cavs? Yeah. Because you didn't see it coming. I mean, we knew they were good, but NCAA threw us in a trick bag. We played South Carolina in the second round in South Carolina.

So it was a home game for them. Are you thinking they're sticking it to Coach K? I don't know. There's a lot of Duke haters in the world. They don't want to see us win. Let's take a break to talk about our friends at Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender.

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Rate shield approval only valid on certain 30-year purchase transactions. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans data in comparison to public data records, equal housing lender license in all 50 states, and MLSconsumeraccess.org, number 3030. You grew up in St. Louis, the St. Louis hoop scene. So Larry Hughes, your uncle, JoJo White. Who else? Darius Miles.

East St. Louis, right? Close, really it's basically St. Louis David Lee David Lee Bradley Bill oh Bradley Bill's a good one Anthony Bonner he's an old

old guy Jihadi White Darius Miles is a good example of got drafted by the wrong team yeah I think if he had gone to a more stable team

that kind of knew what he was and pushed him that direction instead he went to the clippers and it was like a free-for-all and he's playing four positions and never really figured out what it was he still made money he signed one big contract but he did so hughes um i remember when he came into the draft that was the paul pierce newitsky michael all the candy all that was the Paul Pierce, Nowitzki, Michael Ola, Candy, all that stuff. He went two spots out of Pierce. But I remember he was one of the first one and done guys.

He came in because I think his brother was sick. He needed to make money basically right away. And he kind of knew he wasn't ready. And I remember thinking, oh, man, I wish he could have stayed. Now everybody's one and done. But'd you learn from larry hughes he must have been giving you advice from the moment he knew you could make it right yeah uh he's he's a lot older though the guy i was really close to was brad because me and brad only five years six years apart yeah when he was in 12th grade,

you know, we went to the same school. So my middle school was connected to his high school. Really? So he used to take me home every day after school because I would, we would shoot around

after he would practice. And even after he got drafted, he would come home in the summertime and he would pick me up every day in the summer, take me to the gym. We work out, we go play the game. We'd work out, we'd go play the game. We'd go back and work out again

and he'd drop me back off at home. Sometimes I'd stay over at his house. But Brad's like my big brother. So 12th grade Bradley Beal would pick up sixth grade Jason Tatum? Seventh grade. Seventh grade. He would take me home from school because we lived

he lived like around the corner from me, maybe two minutes. So he would drop me off at home and then he would go home. That's amazing. And now both of you guys, you made the All-Star team last year, didn't you? Yeah, this year. Yeah, last year. So

what do you think he saw in seventh grade Jason Tatum other than a kid that he liked did he think you had like a chance at that point uh yeah I mean I was pretty I was always pretty tall and uh you know it was it's funny because his mom was my mom's high school volleyball coach yeah so we've always had a you know. We live in the same neighborhood. And especially after he got drafted when I was in high school, you could kind of see that I really, really had a chance to make it. And he just wanted to be that person to help me out and be a great role model. You did. There's a big Boston Globe piece about you last spring about growing up in St. Louis and what your life was like

and all that. And, you know, I think a lot of guys who have come into the league have had rough childhoods, things like that. Now that the life you have now and you're on these charter planes and you have money to pay for stuff, like how long ago does that seem like? Not long enough. I've only been in the league one year, still 20. So it was very recently.

Was your neighborhood dangerous? When I was younger. So like elementary school and middle school it was. But once I got to high school, it got a lot better. But St. Louis isn't the best place to live at as a city. But I love St. Louis to death. If St. Louis had a team, I would go play for St. Louis. You'd eat that?

That's all it would take? Well, maybe that's a good reason I have an expansion team there. Come back. Wait, now I'm going to root against this. This's a good reason I have an expansion team there. Come back. Wait, now I'm going to root against this. This is a bad idea. I don't like this. Well, they had the Hawks. They won a title there in 1958.

They beat the Celtics. Yeah, I remember that. Well, I don't remember, but I know about it. Bob Pettit. And then they moved to Atlanta, which I think they probably would have been better off

staying in St. Louis. The school, the college never really took off as a basketball school. They had a couple of moments, but- St. Louis. The school, the college never really took off as a basketball school. They had a couple of moments, but. St. Louis University? Yeah, they never, they did a couple of times where it was like, oh, this is interesting this year,

but they never like had a run or anything. Yeah, that was my second choice for college. Really? Like. You think that would have been a good idea to stay home? I don't know. I mean, I'm obviously glad I went to Duke, but you know, one of the biggest reasons was I love St. Louis a lot.

I thought I was going to get homesick. So I wasn't sure if I wanted to leave St. Louis or, you know, it would work out. And I just felt really comfortable, you know, being home. So when you go back during the summers, what do you do? Are you doing camps? What's going on? To St. Louis? Yeah.

Yeah. I had two basketball camps back in St. Louis. Yeah, I noticed there was some videos. I was monitoring your summer. I was making sure you weren't going to the ESPYs and, you know, letting the fame get to your head or anything. But it seemed like it was all basketball. Yeah. Basketball and business.

Business? What kind of business? I went to China on a business trip with Nike. Yeah. Two weeks ago. I've been traveling city to city, basically doing photo shoots, appearances, commercials, things like that. One thing I don't understand about your generation, I've talked about this on a podcast, you guys all come into the league totally polished now. And my theory is that the

generation, I always think the guys emulate the generations before them. So the generation right before you is the LeBron, Kobe, and all those guys handle the media great. They have all these interests off the court. They're trying to be businessmen. Like, do you sense that even when you're in high school that these guys have all these things going on? You want to be like that?

Yeah, I think now, you know, when I was in high school, you know, there's all these specials and, you know, now with videos and TV, you know, guys, you know, have a chance to,

you know, speak, you know, what they enjoy to do and, you know, the good thing about that is, you know, we look up to them

and, you know, when they talk about these off the court things that, you know, they want to do and expand and life beyond basketball, you know, every time we go to a camp in high school or that, you know, they want to do and expand and life beyond basketball.

You know, every time we go to a camp in high school or anything, you know, we always have seminars and talking about, you know, when the ball stops bouncing, you know, what are you going to do with it? Yeah. You know, you hear all these stories about, you know, guys that had a lot of money and lost all their money. Yeah. And, you know,

when they're willing to come back to these all-star camps and, you know, tell their story and, you know, just tell us what not to do. So I think we have more of an advantage, you know, than maybe guys before us did coming into the league. And that really, really helps us out a lot. Yeah, your class in particular is all of the people in that class seem like they're like 28 years old already. You were doing those post-game interviews with Abby Chin. And I was like, what the hell? This dude's 19.

He's the answer. Like he's a 10-year pro. I don't understand it. My generation of basketball, the rookies came in and they seemed like rookies. You know, Barkley was, people like Barkley, occasionally like barkley would come in and he's like wow that guy's a character he's gonna be something but for the most part people seem kind of overwhelmed by it um going into year two are you monitoring the other contenders and like were you following the july the signings boogie cousins to Warriors, Kawhi to Toronto. Do you care about that stuff or you just wait till the season starts?

I mean, I care. I mean, it's in my profession. Because Kawhi's in your conference now. Yeah. You haven't really gone against him. I never played against him. Yeah. It's not fun if he's on his game.

He's a monster. No, I'm very much aware from what I've seen. So we got him. We have Philly didn't really do anything. They lost a couple of bench guys. They had a Wilson Chandler. Golden State had a boogie. The Lakers obviously are completely different.

Houston's a little bit worse. Worse? Yeah, a little bit worse. They lost Ariza. I thought he was big for them. They got Melo. So you think Mel bit worse they lost Ariza I thought he was big for them they got Melo so you think Melo makes up for Ariza

now is this because you're a fan of Melo or you actually you see the basketball fit for him I think he'll fit I think he'll fit well and

well I'm definitely a fan of Melo and obviously he's not the defender that Trevor Ariza is but he's not the defender that Trevor Reese is, but he's a better scorer. The Carmelo Anthony defense. See, we're not getting a lot of these this summer.

A lot of people think that's not going to work out, including myself. A lot of people hate on Melo. I don't see why. He's averaged 20 points every year in his career besides last year. Not too many people have done that. I was one of the last.

I have a long Carmelo column in my archives. I was one of his last. I thought he could be the best player in a title team, guys. I mean, he's past his prime now, but I still feel like there was a path for him not different than what happened with Nowitzki in Dallas, where he was the lead scorer and they had the right team around him and you could go to him at the end of the game as he'd get buckets and Carmelo never

totally had that team but on the other hand he kept signing with the Knicks you know and that was the last few years of his prime I don't know you're in a situation where I mean there's so much there's so much talent this year.

I'm going to be interested to see how the minutes shake out. Have you thought about that? I don't know if you realize this, but Gordon Hayward's really good and needs to play. And then you got you, and you got Jalen Brown, you got Marcus Morris, Marcus Smart, Kyrie. There's a lot of players in this team. Al Horford.

How are the minutes going to work? I don't know. That's Brad's job. this team, Al Horford? How are the minutes gonna work? I don't know. That's Brad's job. Our job is just to go out there and be the best versions of ourselves and understanding our role and what each one of us needs to do to make sure that we're the best team that we can be.

That was a media training answer. That was really well done. That's why you got to do that in the preseason too. Just got to go out there and do our jobs. You have to, the biggest thing for you is if you can play more of the four and guard other fours, that opens up more minutes, I think. Right. Which goes back to the getting stronger thing.

Right. Exactly. So how do you get stronger? What are you up to? Eating as much as possible and lifting as often as I can. I know I'm not going to throw on 20 pounds in one summer. You got to do it over the course of like three years, right? Yeah.

I don't want to just get super big. I want the strength and the weight to be comparable to how I play. Let's take a break, talk about my bookie. People always ask me for advice. Usually, it's what team to bet on this week. The truth is, I don't know who's going to win, but if you think you know, you got to check out my bookie. I always tell people to bet with my bookie. Trust me, they're your best bet this season. They've been in business for years. Great reviews online, their mobile site, easy to use, not to mention in-game live betting

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code Bill Simmons when creating your account to claim the bonus. You play, you win, you get paid. Back to Jason Tatum. Where did that move come from when you go at the guy and instead of going right, you go left and you do the Dr. J swoop thing? Where did that come from? Did you steal it from somebody? And when could you first do it? I mean, you try things out in a game, improvise uh i think basketball is a lot about you

know reactions and because i think that's an original move i don't know if dr j had that one exactly but i other than that i haven't seen that one before because it always seems like you're gonna crash into the cameraman i'm always it's one of those isaiah thomas was like that too and he would have his sprawling lefty move and it would always end up with him going into the camera and I was like maybe pull that one back 10% but the

spin nobody ever said everybody always thinks you're going right on that one but then you could also go right as well so what's the third variation of that dunk it just dunk it right on him yeah did you know you were gonna dunk on LeBron when you dunked on him or was that and in the moment oh this is here I'm taking it I knew when Brad dropped the play I told myself I was going to dunk the ball

uh I was trying to I think we were taking too many jump shots at the time I remember I told myself just go to the rim go try to dunk it I didn't I obviously didn't know he was trying to, I think we were taking too many jump shots at the time and I remember I told myself, just go to the rim, go try to dunk it. I obviously didn't know he was gonna be down there. Yeah. But I remember when I turned the corner, I saw him and I was like, uh oh. And I told my, I was just like, I just know I had to, I just tried to dunk it as quick as possible

because obviously he's a great shot blocker. So, uh, I just tried to, I don't, it just happened so fast. Like, I don't even remember jumping.

I just remember like, I guess jumping it in. I blinked and then I dunked on him. Then the crowd went crazy. I just bumped him. He gave you the props right afterwards, though. Yeah, he did. He did the old, the lean in, guard hiding from the camera,

and was like, whispered like, yeah, that was good. That's his official blessing when he does that. I like that. The thing with LeBron, when he's out of the league, I wonder who becomes the guy. Like right now, he's the most important guy to do that. And then when he leaves, who's the next guy? You know, he's kind of the father figure now.

And then eventually it'll be, you know, KD or I don't know who it'll be. And then the torch will keep passing. One other thing about that game seven that we should mention. The Celtic friends wanted you to shoot more and felt like every once in a while you'd remember you could get to the rim whenever you wanted. And then other times you wouldn't. And it was a total rookie thing.

Like you'll get it. But could you sense even, were your teammates? Because they were, I went to a couple of those games, they were yelling at you to shoot. So how do you get over that hump of having that confidence? What's the next step for you? Walk me through it. Yeah, I mean, I think it was just a rookie thing.

Like you don't believe, even though you know you can do it, you don't totally believe it yet? Or so much going on, you're processing everything? What is it? I think it's more of like i don't know i think at first i was just trying not to step on anybody's toes yeah trying to fit in uh not that i am trying to step on anybody's toes but uh i think you just got to be yourself um i think once you put in the work and you showed it, you know, you deserve to take, you know, you've earned some of these shots. Yeah.

Then, you know, I think it's, I don't think anybody has to say anything. It's just known like, like Kyrie, like he can shoot any shot he wants to, like he's earned that right. Yeah. So, I mean mean it takes time yeah i felt the best thing about you last season was you could fit into anything right and that to have that switch of oh shit we need a basket um i got this this time that takes a couple years kairi is who he was on the pod last month and And we were talking about, you know, he'll, he'll, he'll get by somebody once in the first quarter just to show the guy he can do it. And then he

doesn't do it again for two quarters. Cause he already knows he can do it. Whereas other people would be like, Oh, I might get 60 today. And they'll just keep going by the guy. He just does it the one time to kind of plant the seed. And then knows he can do it for uh for later he he was i've never watched anybody like him day in day out before where like there there must have been 20 games where i thought he was gonna get 50 points and then he wouldn't shoot for an entire quarter what was it like to guard him in practice uh are there any tricks we didn't really practice you never got switched on him we didn't really scrimmage that much in practice yeah uh it was more of just recovery you know everybody will work out individually and you know because we had a lot of guys that guys that were

banged up this year so we didn't want to risk anything in practice so we would do five on no you know walkthroughs so uh when did you when did you realize that stevens was a coaching freak and then he could drop magical inbound plays out of thin air and do all these crazy things that he does during games. Was that right away or was that like halfway through the season? Like, oh my God, this is unique. Right away. But my favorite play is when we played Philly, game three. The Al Horford play? Yeah.

But even the play before that when I think it might have been before overtime. It might have been in overtime. I was taking it out by our bench and we were doing some cuts and I threw it over the top to JB and he caught it over Elias Oben later then. But like he just, Brad, the Al Horford play, he just knew like, I remember I was at the block

and he knew Philly was switching everything. So when I, whoever was guarding, whoever set the pick for me, I ran to the corner. Their man switched on me. And Al set a pick for, I think, JB. So that made him B switch. And JB ran to the other side of the court. So we wanted him B'd away from the basket. Yeah.

And we knew once they switched, he was going to be on top of them. So all he said, all you got to do, Al, is seal them, and you'll be wide open. And, like, when it worked just how he said it was going to work, I was like, wow. That was crazy. Like, everything worked exactly how he said it was going to work. And, I mean, it won us the game.

That play was sick. I don't know. I think this is his seventh year, and I think he's run like 200 out-of-bound plays at this point. And like half of them either worked or should have worked or somebody missed a shot. But he's the first one I've ever seen do the one where it's the guy's inbounding from midcourt,

and he just throws to a spot in the corner and somebody actually runs and catches it like a football receiver and then turns and shoots i've never seen that before and at the celtics i think i've won games of that i like the fact that it's not always who you maybe expect right it's going to get the ball it's just who just who he knows is going to be open. And it's been guys that sometimes would not play for 10 games. And then we have guys that are hurt and they're playing and he draws out out of bounds play for them. And they're wide open and hit the shot. We would have never thought he was going to draw it up for him. He of the things he does, it seems like everybody feels like they have skin in the game

on the team. Aaron Baines could end up shooting the biggest shot of the game in the corner. If you're getting minutes, you might be involved in the biggest play of the game basically, which I haven't seen a lot of coaches do. I think the NBA has gotten pretty predictable with the good teams where it's like, this guy's probably going to shoot.

If he doesn't shoot, this guy's going to shoot. And then those are the two options. And he's figured out a way to be a little more democratic about it. What are you most looking forward to this season? Getting back to the playoffs. Playoffs are so much fun compared to the regular season. Yeah. It's like a different season and it was just so much more intense and it was just so much more fun to me.

How long would you, if you could be in charge of the length of the NBA season, how long would, how many games would you have? I don't know. That's tough because less games we play, the less money we make. Right. I think everybody likes their paycheck. I think you're going to do fine with money. I hope so. It's all coming.

I think you're in good shape. So Hayward got added. That's it for this year, right? They're no really new guy. The Nucleus is back, but with Hayward got added. That's it for this year, right? They're no really new guy. The nucleus is back, but with Hayward. Yep. And potentially there's, we didn't even talk about Jalen Brown. Potentially there's a Jalen Brown, Hayward, you, Horford, Kyrie,

five guys who can shoot threes lineup out there. I'm excited for that one. Me too. Jalen Brown, are you buddies off the court or just on-court running mates? No, we cool off the court. Yeah? Did you know him in the circles before?

We were- Because he was a year older. We were at camps together before. He was my roommate at one camp. We were on a college visit together. So I knew JB a couple couple years before the NBA. So you guys are kind of a team now. Yeah, we the young guys.

You're tandem. On the team. When anything bad happens, it's our fault. That's one thing I noticed during the year. No matter what. So JB or JT. You didn't switch. It was your fault.

Somebody else, man, got scored on. JB was in the wrong spot. Somebody forgot to play. Take me out the game. How hurt was he in the playoffs compared to what we knew as fans and media people? With his hamstring? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

He wasn't faking it. No, no. Was he like 60%, 50%? It was hard to say because he was able to cheat, and you could never tell. You knew he was hurt, but you could never tell how hurt he was. Yeah. I mean, JB's really tough, and he was fighting through it.

I remember the first, I think it was game two of Philly, the first game he came back, the first play he got in, he stole the ball and dunked it. Yeah, and then he was landing and it seemed like he got hurt again. I remember that. Yeah, he was limping. I was like, only you would go dunk the ball. Your first play back. What's the Jalen Brown-Marcus smart relationship like?

They always... How much ball busting is involved with that combination? Yeah, those two guys always joking in the locker room. They always got something to say about the other person. I mean, they being funny, but they always mess with each other in the locker room, practice, on the bus, just whenever. Marcus competing at everything?

I don't know. It's like JB coming out the shower and Marcus is saying something about his toes. Something like that. Just anything. Are you guys playing cards on the plane and stuff? Or are you guys all too young? Our plane, from what I've heard, is the most chill plane in all of the NBA. Really?

Yeah. Like, there's no cards, no loud music. Everybody just put their headphones on and go to sleep. That's it. When you turn 21? Watch a movie. Next February, March? March 3rd.

And how old's your kid now? Eight and a half months. Oh, so crawling. Yeah, standing up. Standing up. He'll stand up for like six seconds, then he'll fall. He can walk with a walker. Yeah.

But he should be walking soon, really soon. Well, it's all over when they can start to walk. Yeah. It's fun when you can kind of put them in one spot and they can't really move. But when they can start walking over to that cabinet over there and just knocking things over, it's fun for about two days. And then it's not fun at all when they start breaking stuff. Right. And he'll get to come to games this year.

He came to all the- You got to put the little earplugs in. He came to all the home games last year. Oh, really? He just didn't know what was going on? Yeah, he was asleep for half the game. He didn't wear the headphones, though. He didn't like them, but the noise didn't bother him at all.

Oh, that's good. Well, it's going to hurt your feelings when he picks another Celtic as his favorite player. That seems to be a recurring theme with NBA players with kids. That would never happen. Or they pick somebody on another team. He ends up being like a yannis fan or something i won't allow that yeah that see that's the attitude i my my son was like lebron's on the lakers i love lebron not anymore you know you you let's never discuss this again it's not

happening what'd you name your son uh jason but jason we call him deuce like the second nice so his nickname is deuce are you putting a senior on your jersey no yeah keep it keep the way it is it'll sell more without the senior and you're nike now right uh when do you get a shoe soon i hope what would you want to call it? Air Tatum? No. The Crossover? I should have workshopped some names before I got here. You don't have a nickname right, right? Jay Smooth.

That's what they called me when I was at Duke. Jay Smooth. I like that nickname. Jay Smooth? All right. Try to get going. So when does preseason start? Media Day is 24th.

First preseason game is the 28th. So you already worked on your, well, you know, we all got to play minutes and just got to handle like professionals. And, you know, we're just trying to get back to the playoffs. Got that whole thing down. It's the truth. Year two is a big year for NBA players

I'm looking forward to it me too you went through you hit all your you hit all your marks you know what the rookie wall is like you know what it's like to play in the different cities

year two is always a big leap good luck I'm excited for it I'm excited too thanks for coming on thank you alright thanks so much

to Ryan Rossello thanks to Jason Tatum. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ziprecruiter.com slash BS and check out everything they have to offer. Thanks to Starbucks Double Shot. I wish I had one right now. Starts with bold Starbucks coffee,

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store. Have a good weekend. Next week maybe we're going to do over-unders with Sal. We'll see how it goes. Stay tuned for that. A couple other good guests in store. Enjoy the weekend and don't forget to subscribe to the Ryan Rosillo podcast.

Dual Threat. It's happening. Launching next week. Until then. I don't have.