The Bill Simmons Podcast - Jimmy Butler on the Bulls, Jordan, and L.A. Pick-up Games (Ep. 238)

Episode Date: July 18, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on NBA All-Star Jimmy Butler to give his thoughts on his exit from the Bulls (4:00), D-Wade's impact (11:00), tampering in the NBA offseason (18:00), idolizing the Jordan brand (26:00), Karl-Anthony Towns's unique skill set (31:00), his return to Chicago next season (37:00), Thibs's love for basketball (43:00), secret pick-up games in L.A. (53:00), and D-Rose's next destination (1:05:00). Then, The Ringer's Mallory Rubin joins to discuss the long-awaited return of 'Game of Thrones' (1:15:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's a podcast for the hungry by the hungry. Check it out. And don't forget to check out Talk the Thrones. We're talking with Mallory Rubin at the end of this podcast because she's the host of Talk the Thrones, our Twitter show that comes on right after Game of Thrones ends. Hashtag Talk the Thrones. Big success this week. We're so happy with it.

It's like if Inside the NBA with Barkley was actually for Game of Thrones people coming on right after Game of Thrones. This is it. People love this show. So check it out on Twitter. She's coming up a little bit later. But first, we taped a podcast earlier today from an undisclosed location in California with New Timberwolves guard slash forward, Jimmy Butler. That is coming up.

Mallory at the end, talking about Game of Thrones. But first, Pearl Jam. Here with Jimmy Butler, undisclosed location in California. My house in California. Undisclosed. Undisclosed. There you go. Somewhere in California, though.osed There you go Somewhere in California though Yeah You're hearing that

Now you're going to the cold In like two months Yeah that's okay You're going from here to Minnesota It's a little different But you know Home away from home now I'm happy with it

So you had a busy summer I don't even know where to begin Because my team played your team In the playoffs too Which I want to talk about at some point. You got traded. My old team, by the way. Your old team. There you go. You got traded. You got traded before the draft.

Let's just tell the whole story. What happened? You're away and take it from there. I was away. I was in Paris. The night that it happened, we were playing some cards. Me, Melo, Gab, D-Wade. I'm not going to talk about the outcome of the game because everybody has a different story, obviously.

What has that been? Some people say that I won. I would say that I won. The other team may say that I lost. I had to deal with it all the time. I'm just going to say it was a great game of spades. Okay. It was.

My agent calls me, and he said, hey, I think you're about to get moved to Minnesota. I said, okay, cool. I'm going to get back to my spades game because once again, I can't really control that. That's out of my control. I try to control what I can control. So you're not on Twitter, you're not checking your replies, you're not on Reddit, any of these places? I'm not doing any of that. I'm just trying to enjoy life at that point in time. And it just so happened I could enjoy that in a foreign country, that being Europe and Paris and all that stuff with D-Wade and those guys. And then, you know, he calls me. You just got traded to Minnesota.

I'm like, all right, you know, I'm back with Tibbs. Like right then and there, I was like, hey, you know, we got some really good young guys. I'm back with Tibbs. Let's do what I always do. We're going to continue to get better every single summer and we're going to go about it the same way just now I'm wearing different colors.

All right, so you're with Wade and Carmelo and who else? Gabrielle Union, Wade. Okay, gotcha. So what are Wade and Carmelo Gotcha. Got it. So, what are Wade and Carmelo, they're in the league, they have to be interested in this whole thing

plus you're playing with Wade. So, the rumor happens, what are those guys saying? Rumors are always rumors. So,

it's kind of like why I really listen to it because my name, it came up, I was going to Boston. Yeah. I was going to Cleveland. I was going to Boston. Yeah. I was going to Cleveland. I was going to Minnesota.

I was going here or going there. So it was kind of like, you know, they would ask me, what do you think? I don't know. I don't really pay attention to it. I hear it because I got enough guys around me that are saying, did you see what came out today? Well, no, I didn't see what came out. I don't read that. I got better things to do with my time than sit there on the Internet like y'all do and scroll up and down yo i mean my guys i mean my guys not you you're my guy you are my

guy but i think you offended the listeners i think you have to apologize to them now what do they do no that's okay you know to each his own but uh so when when he asked about the whole rumor situation d wade and and everybody else i just said the same thing I always say. I don't know. We'll see when it comes, when it presents itself. And whoever I end up playing for, they're going to get my all just like anybody else would. So D. Wade had a little extra stake in this because this is now a rebuilding team and he's under contract for next season. So he had to have gone into the mode of, uh-oh, now what do I do?

I mean, D. Wade's a Hall of Famer. I think he's going to be just fine. He's a competitive dude. Yeah, and he's going to go out there and compete. I mean, I'm not going to say the outcome of his competition, but he's going to go out there and try to help his team win. He didn't drink? He didn't knock over a chair or anything?

No, he wasn't drinking. He was drinking water. That's what I mean, like a cranberry juice. Oh, yeah, cranberry. No, water. He was drinking water. That's what I mean, like a cranberry juice. Oh, yeah, cranberry. No, water. He was drinking water. You know, stay hydrated. And then Carmelo's like, can I get traded?

Am I next? I was actually with Melo this morning working out. He's in a good place as well. Training hard is all get out. I don't know. I think this summer, I mean, obviously with me and Mel, the Olympic thing had strengthened our bond and our brotherhood. And then we've been together a lot this summer. And unfortunately, I get to train with him a little bit, pick his brain, because obviously he had been traded before. He's been through this whole process. It was it was new to me.

Yeah, shocking at first. But then it settled in. It was like it's a business. You can't act like you didn't know eventually that this was going to happen. I may not have known that it was going to happen that day, but, I mean, let's be honest. I knew I wasn't going to be there. So the playoffs end. You have an exit meeting? I have an exit meeting.

And what happens in that? Who's in it? Well, at that one, it was Pax and Gar. And, you know, you just talk about everybody's opinion on certain things, how you think you played, the well-being of the team, what we might need moving forward. So I did that. What did you tell them?

I said we were okay. I said a lot of things about the future that if I could control it, I would do this, but I can't. So I know at the rate that I plan to play and I want to win. I want guys around me that want to win. They give me an opportunity to win a championship because I think that's why everybody plays this game. And I have nothing against anybody on that team, anybody in that organization. But, you know, they were so stuck on not building around me, but maybe building with me, as they would say, or going young, a rebuild. So, you know, it was one or

the other. I just wanted to know. Was it clear when I left that meeting what we were going to do? No. Maybe I was told some things that I probably took as you might be here. Like what? What did they tell you? I mean, I thought I was going to be there. So I'm not going to say word for word what they said. But when I left there, I did think I was going to be there.

But like I said, it's a business, and it is what it is. My thing is, I mean, hell, Chicago was home for me. You know, hell, the first six years of my career, I'm not there anymore, and that's okay. You know, now I got a new home. Can I tell you what I would have said to them? What you would have said to them? Ask Jimmy Butler in the exit interview. Go for it. I would have said to them? What if I were you said to them, I asked Jimmy Butler in the exit interview, go for it.

I would have said, what are we doing guys? Chicago is the third biggest city in America. We're kind of rebuilding, but we're kind of spending money. We're in no man's land. Like what's your plan? Which way are you going?

Cause right now you're, you're kind of, you have your foot in both, both puddles. Are we going to, are we going to go for this? What's going to happen? I got two years left. I just played on a 500 team.

I want to be on a better team. What's your plan? Is that a fair, accurate representation of what you might have said? Yeah, that's very fair. Okay. That's very fair. Because that would have been the smart thing to say. Yeah, of course.

How old are you now? How old am I? 27. I'll be 28 in September. Yeah. This is your peak right now. You smart thing to say. Yeah, of course. How old are you now? How old am I? 27, I'll be 28 in September. Yeah, this is your peak right now, your new prime. Yeah. Mid to late 20s. And the way that you look at it is, I mean, what do you say back?

Because I don't know if they really knew what they wanted to do until something was presented to them that was like, okay, yeah, we got to take this, we got to go that way. You're 500. You're not a bad way. You know, you're 500. You're not a bad team. You're not a good team. What are you going to do? So I don't blame them for it. You feel like the NBA right now,

what my friend Chris Ryan calls it, tanking your titles. And if you're not doing one of those two things, what are you? I don't know. Irrelevant? Is that't know. Irrelevant? Is that the word? Irrelevant's a good word. Right? Yeah.

Hell, I think everybody should want to win a championship. And maybe it won't be this year. Maybe it won't be next. But, you know, you got to plan for the future,

as people say. Even though I don't really do that. Future ain't too promised for nobody. Well, you look at last year's team, though, it's like pretty sure Taj Gibson could have helped in that playoff series. Oh, yeah.

They traded him for a bunch of guys who are no longer on the team. That's a good example of, like, no plan, and I'm not really sure what you're doing, but I know Taj Gibson could have played in the playoffs and banked some bodies and gotten some rebounds and made you better defensively. So when that happens, you've got to be like, what are we doing? It's hard.

It's hard because that's not in my job description. So I can't tell them what to do. I can give my output on certain things, but, you know, that's not in me to do that anymore. But now, look, where's Taj now? You know, Taj is with us over in Minnesota. You got a reunion. Which is phenomenal. Yeah. Now look, where's Taj now? You know, Taj is with us over in Minnesota. You got a reunion. Which is phenomenal.

Yeah. Because we know what Taj brings to the table. And he's going to be great for us over there in Minnesota. And he's going to be a big part to what we're trying to do. So the Bulls, like, do the players, did you feel like there was a plan? Did the players even think about that stuff? Because you guys had such a strange season last year. A lot of stuff trickling in the press.

There were weird meetings and players-only meetings and people griping at each other and Facebook posts. The coach was in trouble the whole year, but he never got fired. It just seemed like just watching him from afar, having no opinion on anything, but having gone to a couple of Bulls games last year, it seemed like an unhappy team. Is that a fair way to phrase it? Yeah. I mean, everybody wants to win.

So it's so hard when you're up and down, up and down, up and down. You never know what to expect emotionally or physically from anybody, let alone there was supposed tension between some players and some coaches and some players and other players. Well, hold on, though, because it seemed strange that Rondo wasn't playing more when they tried six other point guards. And then Rondo would come in, and then you guys could run the offense the way it was kind of meant to be run, then then it was a steady revolving if i could tell you if i could tell

you why or how i would but i don't control the substitutions i don't control anybody's playing time i can only know what i would want to happen and i mean mean, for the most part, but I don't do that. So it's kind of like at the same time, my opinion is heard, but at the same time, it probably wasn't. But then you have Dwayne Wade, who's 35, who's a future Hall of Famer, who has two rings, who's rich, who's totally comfortable saying his speaking is fine. I think D. Wade's got three rings. Oh, he's got three. I forgot about the 06 one. I'm sorry, D. Wade. My apologies, D. Wade.. Oh, he's got three. I forgot about the 06 one.

I'm sorry, D-Wade. My apologies, D-Wade. D, I got you. D, I got you. 06. Yeah. The Mavericks fans are mad now that there's something about 06. Yeah, three rings.

Does he have to rein himself in with this whole thing? Because he signed up for a certain playoffs, fringe championship kind of run, and then it's not happening? I mean, that's just the way it happens sometimes. You go into things thinking and want it to work the way that you pictured it, the way that you planned it. But it doesn't always work like that. You know, you have injuries that come into effect.

You have, you know, people's playing time, obviously. The type of offense that we want to run is at the style that fits your players. So a lot of things come into effect that can alter what was in your head before you, you know, came into this. Right. I think that describes our season as a whole. But then all of a sudden you had two games in Boston where the team came together. And I'm shitting my pants as a Celtic fan. I went to the first game.

You know, the situation with Isaiah's family obviously was terrible. And I think it unquestionably affected him and the team in game one. But game two, it really did feel like the Bulls had come together and something was happening. And then Rondo gets hurt and it's over. But something was happening, right? I wasn't imagining that. No, I think so. You know, we lost a series.

You know, Boston beat us. But those first two games, we were playing extremely well. And, you know, obviously took a hit with Rondo going down. But they just outplayed us. Rondo was a big part of it, but you can't blame them on that. You've got to give them their props. They did what they were supposed to do on both ends of the floor. They were a really good team last year.

I think they'll continue to be that this year. Yeah. Were you surprised that they traded Avery Bradley? Nothing surprises me in this league. Okay. Nothing. Nothing. It doesn't.

Was he surprised? If I was him, I would be surprised. But nothing surprises me. Zero. In this league, nothing surprises me. I expect the worst to happen all the time because when you look at it as a business. That's kind of sad. No, you look at it as a business. You's kind of sad. No, you look at it as a business.

You've got to do what you think is best for your business. At that point in time, you've got to do it. You don't have to do it. You don't know, but you should. There's a lot that's going on, and you just hit the button and be like, yo, let's do it. So we'll see. We'll see.

Was it a good thing to do this upcoming season? I mean, you can say the same thing about me being traded. We'll see. Was it a good thing to do this upcoming season? I mean, you can say the same thing about me being traded. We will see. Last question about the Bulls stuff. How much of the stuff that trickled out did you think was unfair? In what aspect of it when you say trickle out? The team not getting along, You and Wade versus everybody else. There was stuff about you weren't a great teammate

that was never really seemed to be substantiated, but it did seem like after you got traded. It all comes to life. Yeah, I was like, ah. You know, everybody always has something to say, as I've said time and time again. But if you're winning, it doesn't matter. Nobody cares.

It's all swept under the rug. Now when you're losing, you're mediocre. You're irrelevant in the middle of the pack. Somebody's got to take the blame. I'm cool with that. But you're not a guy who's going in the locker room whispering to beat reporters, throwing guys under the bus. It seems like you just keep to yourself, right?

Or I will say it like I'm talking to you right now. Or you'll say it right to somebody's face, yeah. Or I'll say it to you, as in the media. I will say it to you. Right. Which has got me in trouble multiple times. But if you catch me in the heat of the moment when I'm mad, that's just me. What makes you mad as a teammate?

What makes me mad as a teammate? Losing. I hate to lose. I hate to feel like, and this is just me feeling that way. I don't like to feel like at any point in time that it's okay to lose in anything. Yeah. That's like, if we're going out and we're going to compete every night, I'm with that. You know, we just lost.

We could have done things better. But when it's just like, you know, when you're 500 and it's just like sometimes you go through the motions, I don't like that. I don't like that because you're not putting yourself in a good position. Yeah, it seems like you guys, it cratered. It was over in like late March, early April. And then all of a sudden you started winning again. Right. But when it cratered, it seemed like it was going to be an apocalypse.

So what flipped? I'm always confused by the rhythms of basketball teams. I don't know. The season's always so up and down. Yeah. I can't really tell you what it was or the sequence of events. Right. It happened, and it's just like, okay, oh, yeah, this is how we're supposed to play.

Why can't we play like this from the jump, from the beginning of the season? But we started playing like that at a good time, you know, the beginning of the playoffs. Right. And then, I don't know, the up and down came back into it, and we ended up losing the series. Quick break to talk about Blue Apron. Picnics, potlucks, dinner parties, barbecues, good food,

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Free shipping. Blue Apron. A better way to cook. And now back to Jimmy Butler. How much, once the season ended, it seems like everybody tampers with everybody now in the NBA because the players can just talk to each other. Players just openly recruit each other now.

Chris Paul, the Rockets weren't allowed to talk to Chris Paul until July 1st and somehow telepathically knew he wanted to get traded to them and they made a trade in June. Walk me through the tampering stuff because it's not really tampering. Through the tampering. Yeah, you can email any player, right? Hey, man, I'd love to play with you. I don't use email.

Let's just get that out the way. Or text. Okay. Text. I might text or phone call somebody. It's not really tampering, though. Not if it's player versus player, or player for player. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you build, the league's different nowadays. Like, you build relationships with players, and, you know, you hang around each other because y'all have so much in common, you know? Like, y'all are competitive, you want to be great. You're all rich. I mean, yeah, if you want to throw that one in the category I hate to break it to you but it may play

to have a buddy okay yeah there you go and so so you you build relationships so you're checking in on them

and then of course you're you know what's going on in their lives just like they know what's going on in yours so you may ask a question what's going on

hey man where you going where you gonna end up you going to end up? You know? And the majority of the time they're going, I don't know. You know, I got a lot of time to think, da-da-da-da. I mean, not too many people are going to tell me. So a player's hitting you after the season?

Hey, Jimmy, what's going on, man? Getting traded? Where you going? I think everybody wants to know that. Players, fans, media, individuals, family. I don't know. I would say the same thing if a player, I don't know, because I don't control that.

You know, it's not like I could be like, yeah, I'm getting traded here. I'm going to sign, and then I'm going to just walk over to wherever it may be. No. You know, a lot of different things have to come into effect for that type of stuff to happen. So everybody's going to probably give you the I don't know or mind your business. Who are the best recruiters? Who are the best non-tampering recruiter players?

Isaiah Thomas has to be up there. I don't know. He does the social media. He does the eyeballs. He just puts eyeballs in people. Yeah, the Instagram pages, man. Yeah, but he's nice with the emojis on the social media outlets. Yeah, he is.

I like that. Last week, or maybe this weekend, who was it? CJ McCollum? Or was it Lillard? It was McCollum. McCollum. They just put an Instagram photo of Carmelo in a Blazers uniform. Oh, really?

He's like, come play with me and Dame. I think he's going to get in trouble. I don't know if you're allowed to do that in the NBA. I don't even know if they have. I don't know if you can openly recruit like that. I think they're not going to check your phones. How is that openly recruiting? He just posted a photo of Carmelo in a Blazers jersey?

Because he said, come play with me and Dame in the text of the photo. I don't think that's allowed. Just be my guess. I don't know. I don't think nothing's wrong with that. It's actually a perfect place for him. It got me rooting for Carmelo to the Blazers. I don't think anything's wrong with that.

He can have an opinion. Come play over here. What if he would have said, hey, yo, LeBron, Carmelo, CP, James, Russell, everybody come over here. So that's how he should have gotten out of the tampering. He should have named LeBron next. He should have just named everybody else. Yeah, he should have named the 10 best players of the week.

Yeah, no, ain't nothing wrong with that. It is. What year were you drafted? 2011. 2011. So that's the biggest thing that's changed this decade is how accessible the players are. And just all this little subtle stuff. Like, we didn't have that last decade.

Yeah, but I mean. I feel like you know these guys more than usual. Podcasts are a big part of it, too, you know? Definitely. But I think that you do so much more nowadays with other players than they did in the past whether it be you know you're going to uh china with nike basketball you're doing the olympic team um rather you're just the world championships team you know what i mean you're playing open gym with guys in vegas and miami in los angeles uh whether you just walk across one another at dinner,

it's so different than it was nowadays. Than it was back then. You guys are soft now. It's not like it was. You guys are all buddies now. We still compete though. Don't get it wrong. Russ and KD are the last good feud we're ever going to have, I think.

And even they get along now. They're buddies again. Oh, there's some feuds. I got some feuds with people. Don't ask who because I'm not going to have, I think. Nah. And even they get along now. They're buddies again. Oh, there's some feuds. I got some feuds with people. Don't ask who, because I'm not going to tell you. But oh, I got some feuds. Can we play 20 questions? Can I guess?

No, because 20 questions would mean you would be asking me the question. Yeah, and I would try to figure it out. But if you're asking me the question, how would you figure it out? You can't be guessing. You're asking the questions. I would be the one kind of...

Well, you're answering. I can figure out anything in 20 questions. I don't know. Because I could give the most vague answers ever. What's he look like? So here's the thing. I have a theory that 99% of NBA feuds start over cards or women are the two biggest reasons. Cards, women, money.

Yeah. Or somebody owes and they didn't pay. It seems like that is usually... That's where a lot of beef does come from, actually. Yeah. That's why it's my theory

because it's true. Yeah. That's a real fact. It's real smart. Cards. Cards is a problem. Yeah, but... Because there's been fights

on planes with cards. Remember Charles Oakley was going collecting and punched Tyron Hill once? I don't know about none of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't.

Yeah. I'm not going to talk about other people's business. No, but you know, that's a valid deal right there. You know, if we get you a lot of money, you probably can be

in that whole NBA rich, all that stuff that we have in front of you. I'm ready. I'm here. You're ready to go. Yeah, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to play.

When I was at the finals, there was a game with your old teammate Rondo and a couple other people playing spades at the hotel bar for money. And it got me. There's this whole world. You guys are just lucky. It's a great life. At the hotel bar, though? At the hotel bar.

There was a spades game going on. These two witnessed it right here, Tommy and Tate. Pierce was there, too. All right, Pierce was there. It was Rondo and Pierce and two others playing Spades at the hotel bar. Can I play 20 questions and figure out who the two others was? Yeah, exactly. But why at the bar?

I don't know, because it was that very— It was that crucial that they just, like, no, we can't go upstairs. Yeah, I don't know. It was probably a laid-back game. Yeah, I don't know. What's probably a laid back game. Yeah. I don't know. What's the biggest card game you've been in? And what was the actual card game?

I've played the game called Blu-ray and then a game called Guts. It gets really dangerous really, really fast. I don't really gamble too much. I've taken my fair share of L's. Yeah. I don't really gamble too much. I've taken my fair share of L's. Yeah. I don't want those problems anymore.

Because like sometimes you just got to be like I can't win. Yeah. If Tobey Maguire's there just get up and leave. Yeah. Like you can't win.

Or if you have people there who's like yeah that guy finished eighth in the World Series of Poker but he's here for a friendly game like get up. Leave. He's there to take your money.

Yeah, no. No, we just play, like, some friendly dominoes. We'll play some friendly cards. Dominoes? How many people for dominoes? You can play heads up. You can play three. You can play four.

I'm the best. I'll tell you that. You're the best at dominoes? Am I? This sounds like it should be a ringer online series. I'm nice. That's what everyone says. You're the best at dominoes? Am I? This sounds like it should be a ringer online series. I'm nice. That's what everyone says. I'm the best.

Tommy's saying that, Tommy who's not mic'd is saying he's heard that Jimmy's the best at dominoes. Yeah. How do you even get this reputation? How does Tommy find out that you're the best? Because you beat everybody. So they'll be like, hey, Jimmy's alright. So who are the other NBA dominoes players?

I beat Smack and D-. Wade in dominoes. Uh-oh. I'd beat all my guys in dominoes. I think dominoes is a, I'll beat Carmelo. He wants no problems. But I think if you're down south, you play a lot of dominoes. You know, maybe up north you play cards. Yeah.

Some dice games, some stuff like that. I don't know, jacks maybe. But down south is dominoes. That's what we do. I wrote a piece in 2006. I was at the Houston All-Star game at the Four Seasons having lunch. I wrote a piece about this. 06?

06, 2006. Oh, that's the baggy clothes and all. Oh, yeah. And that was Houston. That was a crazy all-star weekend. MJ was at the table next to us playing Boo-Ray with some of his friends and turned into the MJ that I grew up reading, and I wrote about it. He was trash-talking, yelling, F-bombs. It was the best.

And it left me thinking it was probably frightening to play cards with MJ. Have you played cards with MJ? I'm not. Why? It's a bad idea. It's a terrible idea. Yeah. How are you supposed to win?

You can't. Yeah, no. And he'll just start breaking you down. Exactly. Because he doesn't care. I'm not playing with Mike. Did MJ? I like Mike.

He's easy. Did he ever reach, did he feel any Bulls kinship with you at all when you were in the Bulls? You were two guard of the Bulls, so was he, nothing? That's tampering. What? Oh, yeah, because he was he nothing? That's tampering. What? Oh, yeah, because he's an owner. That's tampering. But nothing like, hey, man, I've been watching you.

Good luck. I mean, yeah, you could say that. And I'm fortunate enough to be with his brand. You see all those sneakers right there. You know what I'm saying? And he's a phenomenal guy. Hell of a player. We all know that.

But, yeah, I mean, he's mean he's like hey you know good luck this year same thing he would say obviously he wants to win like everybody else does but mj's uh so that's that's a good dude i'm sure everybody knows that but does your generation because like obviously my generation i saw every relevant mj moment that he had but you're 27. You were six when he retired from the Bulls. You're just watching him through highlights and YouTube and word of mouth, basically. Do you still understand the impact that that dude had? You have to. If you can sit there and watch some highlights over and over and over,

and it doesn't get old to you, you've got to know that he impacted the game in a way that they're still talking about it nowadays. Even if it's that long ago and he still has all of these records and nobody has broken or that people are fighting to try and break, you did something special for the game of basketball. And then you look at the brand that he's built off the floor and how special that is. That's here.

That's overseas. That's everywhere. His brand, his name, his legacy. You want that as a basketball player. I want that as a basketball player. That's something the Wade, LeBron, Carmelo generation on down. You go to the MJ generation, they're just idolizing basketball players. But it seems like starting with the Wade generation,

they're idolizing what the guy did on and off the court. And they're measuring themselves against people like Magic and MJ and all these. And now you see like,

you know, LeBron's trying to build a giant media company and Carmelo's doing all his stuff. It's different nowadays though. You look at the way social media comes into effect.

The way that there's phones and the internet at your fingertips at any point in time. That's important. That's a lot of brand building within itself. Yeah, they see you on the TV, but, you know, a lot of these people really want to know is who are you when I don't see you on TV? What are you doing? Yeah. Let me get a sneak peek at one of your workouts. Are you hanging around your friends doing what you like? They didn't have you on TV. What are you doing? Let me get a sneak peek of one of your workouts or you hanging around your friends

doing what you... They didn't have that back then. If they had that back then in MJ's day, just imagine what could have happened to his brand then or some of the other players that played while he was playing. Their brand could have been so much broader and bigger because

it could reach so many people so fast like it does now. Well, it could have been worse for MJ's brand. It could have. It's going to Atlantic City between playoff games. You never know. That stuff would have been bad. No, social media is a problem.

I'm not going to sit here and say that it's not. You know, just the fact that. You must be always wearing cell phones everywhere anytime you're at a club, people filming you, all that stuff. I don't really go to clubs like that. I'm in the house. This is my sanctuary right here. We here.

The domino table is in the middle of the floor over there. That's what we do. There's cards on that table just in case. We don't leave the house. We go to the gym in the morning, work out, come back here and eat, and enjoy some California weather. Have you played in round two of the playoffs yet? Yep.

What D-R Rose year was that? Oh, 11. You were a rookie. 11-12. And after that. No, my first year, he got hurt. Oh, that's when he got hurt. You lost to the Sixers.

The second year is whenever we beat. Oh, the Joaquin Noah. Yeah, you beat Brooklyn game seven. No, so I've been there twice because we beat Milwaukee one time. And then both times we win and we lost to Miami. What was the best team you've been on? No, we lost to Washington. Oh, so the Cavs.

The year that LeBron hit the buzzer beater. We did. We lost to the Cavs. And then we had lost. No, we lost to Washington first. We lost to the Cavs. And then the one time we lost to Miami, I think. I don't know.

That was so long ago. It was something like that. That was a weird decade for the Cavs, and then the one time we lost to Miami, I think. I don't know. That was so long ago. It was something like that. That was a weird decade for the Bulls, because I remember thinking at the beginning of the decade, that would have probably been Oklahoma City and Chicago would have been the two teams you picked, other than whatever team LeBron was on. All right, who's going to own this decade?

You would have said the Bulls. You would have said KD, Westbrook, and Harden, and you would have said the bulls you would have said katie westbrook and harden and you would have said lebron and then that's basketball weird shit happens rose gets hurt yeah um things start to get weird they kind of blow up the team but not really then they do then they don't they i never felt like the bulls it's weird they they operated as like a media market team even though they're in the third biggest market i never felt like the Bulls, it's weird, they operated as like a media market team, even though they're in the third biggest market. I never felt like they made like the big financial, here we go, we're going all in splash. OKC definitely didn't.

They traded Harden. But then you watch it, and then all of a sudden here come the Warriors. And now that's the team. And nobody could have guessed that in 2011. Now you're on this Minnesota team that towns, that's a real guy. I mean, that's somebody that could be first team All-NBA in the next three years, one of those years. He can play.

He can go. And he works. You know, I'm texting him, calling him, checking in on him. What's going on? No, I'm headed to the gym. I'm leaving the gym. You know, I like to hear that. I know that you're getting it in.

You want to be great. You want to win. You want to win a championship. You want to do what's right for Minnesota, for that organization. I'm around with that. I'm around for that. He also got to go to KG graduate school summer camp for a year. KG just taught him stuff, yelled at him.

Work ethic stuff. It was great. Yeah, sounds like KG. That's really lucky, though. I mean, the Philly guys could use somebody like that. Look at what KG has done for the game. Look at his career, his legacy. You learn from somebody.

How'd you do it? You pick his brain, and to the best of your ability, you try to, what, reinvent that or model it yourself after that. But then try to take it a step further. Set that bar a little bit higher to where whenever you reach that, if you're not on the same level as KG, maybe you're a little bit better. Maybe you've done a little bit more. It's hard to do with somebody like KG. I think KG's coming back. I think he's going to be with somebody like KG. I think KG's coming back.

I think he's going to be your teammate in five months. I remember you saying that. Yeah. I think he's like a boxer. He's going to come back one more time. That dude's too competitive. What does he do all day? He's got to be going crazy.

Yeah, he's competing in something, I can tell you that. Yelling, getting fired up about something. But I'll never say never. Could he still play? Probably so. I think he can get up and down a little bit. Yeah, he can get up and down a little bit. Wiggins, you have the chance to have the biggest impact on.

Because he's one of those guys, young, comes into the league, basically when you're out of college. He's just on bad teams. You start throwing bad, you have different coaches start telling him bad habits but athletically ridiculously gifted yeah defensively was was below average last year like the all the metrics said that he just wasn't good defensively and that's something that he's got to get better now you have him you you got taj gibson you got towns i mean all of a sudden has the makings of a decent defensive team. Yeah, I think that it's different.

He has all the tools to be a terrific defender, by the way. But it's different whenever somebody's just telling you something all the time and then somebody's showing you. Like, this is what, you know, when you play both sides of the floor can get you. He is extremely talented on the offensive end. And I think that he's going to be just that talented on the defensive end as well. As long as you lock into it and, you know, I think he has that will and he wants to be great, so he's going to want to do it.

And I'm excited to get with him just because I know how passionate he is about the game and his drive and his work ethic and how he wants to win. When you have that as a young guy, you have it. You know, you can't really teach that. You just have it. Don't take, like, $3 million from him in dominoes and, like, ruin his confidence. No, I wouldn't do that to him. Don't take money from him.

I would tell him, don't play me in dominoes. Don't play you in dominoes. Don't set yourself up for that. Life lesson number one, stay away from any dominoes game that I'm in. If I'm around, just be like, you know what? I'm going to leave the table. He's here. He's not playing.

But, nah. You must have defended him a few times the last couple years, right? Yeah. He's a tough cover on the offensive end. Yeah. He can, you know, he's athletic. Gets to the free throw line. He can shoot.

A little bit of a heat check guy. He's supposed to be. Yeah. You make shots, I want you to heat check. Yeah. He can do that, man. He can do it all on the offensive end. So I'm excited to be able to, you know, go alongside him.

What about Jeff Teague? Teague, you know, I got to play with his little brother at one point in time. And he can shoot it. He's tremendous in the pick and roll, getting out in the open floor. I'm telling you, we're going to be just fine. You have to mistake. His little brother was one of the 75 point guards you played with in Chicago, I think. How many?

Was it like six a year? I can't even remember. I can't even remember. Chicago, they had affection for point guards. Oh, point guard's available. Let's trade for him. Ooh, that guy. Always wanted him.

Well, now they have Chris Dunn. We'll see how that goes. He's going to love it over there. Chris Dunn. Do you look at a trade so they get Chris Dunn, Zach Levine, and the seventh pick? Do you hear a trade like that? Do you feel like, oh, that's enough for me? Or, oh, they should have gotten more?

Like, do you get competitive about it? No. No, no, no, no, no. Because I think there's much more that goes into what you get and what you give up. That's not my job. I don't know all the salary cap, and you've got to move all the room, and da-da-da-da-da. No, I'm good. I don't really care about any of that. I just want to go out there, and I just want to hoop.

But deep down, you hope marketing's a stiff, because that would be more fun, right'm good. I don't really care about any of that. I just want to go out there and I just want to hoop. But deep down you hope Markinan's a stiff because that would be more fun, right? No, I want the kid to be great. I'm just kidding. Be great. I'll tell you this, he's got pressure on him because he's the guy they traded Jimmy Butler for. He's coming in as a rookie. That kid has zero pressure on him. And then Dennis Smith and Monk and Mitchell come to get drafted after him.

That kid has pressure on him, I'm telling you. No, he don't got no pressure. No, I feel bad. He's in a bad spot. The kid just needs to go out there and play basketball, have fun, don't worry about nothing. He'll be fine. What happens when you go back to Chicago for a game?

I'm going to try to go for, I don't know, just try to score like five points in my first game back. That's all I need. What's the crowd reaction? I don't know. I mean, you played your ass off for them. Oh, definitely. I think I'll get some love.

You're not going to cry when they show the video. No, I'm not. What does everybody say I'm going to cry? I'm not going to cry. Pierce cried. It's like 50% of the time people cry. No, I'm not crying you get choked up it's like your whole life I'm gonna try not to look up at the board to tell you you'll look up

I'm gonna look up every once in a while you're gonna have to look I want to watch my own highlight video nobody does that no they'll wait they'll wait till like a second quarter time out and then they'll do this little two minute video I don't know maybe did was it acrimonious when you left? First of all, don't use SAT words. Acrimonious. I don't know what the hell that means. Acrimonious. Was there bad blood after you left? No.

With the owners or any of that stuff? No. Reinsdorf call you? Yes. Yes. What did he say? He thanked me and said a lot of great things and said that they picked their direction. And I was like, I respect you for calling me.

He was amazing. The ownership was phenomenal when I was there. Except for the part that they wouldn't go over the luxury tax. Yeah, it's none of my business. It's none of my business. But as in, like, great people and was always doing everything in the community, which means so much to me. They were,

they were the ones and they always put everybody in a position to be successful when it came to in that community and just being really great people

and wanting it to be a family like atmosphere. The Ryan's door for phenomenal. What are you going to miss the most about Chicago? Give me a top three list. Top three about Chicago? What restaurant are you going to miss the most about Chicago? Give me a top three list. Top three about Chicago?

What restaurant are you going to miss the most? Man. Well, to tell you the truth, they just opened a Katana in Chicago. It's opening soon. Okay. So that's going to be great. I don't know if I'll eat there whenever I go back. Headline, Jimmy Butler's going to miss the sushi in Chicago.

Katana's legit. What else am I going to miss? I think all the country concerts do come to Minnesota as well. So I'll get to do that as well. I'll tell you what I won't miss. I get to move out a little bit into the burbs to where I don't have to hit all of that traffic. Oh, yeah, the traffic's terrible. My house is going to be a nice size out there for a lot less money.

Yeah, I'm happy about that. I'm looking forward to it. All the Chicago, I mean, that's like one of the nicest cities of people. Oh, yeah. Really, really nice people. Really nice. I mean, they come up to you, but friendly, and then they get out. Yeah.

Take a couple selfies, maybe. They're really, they're really friendly. But then again, it's normally cold when I'm there, so I'm never really just outside. Right, true. Yeah, so. True. I mean, if somebody walked up to me in my house and tried to take a selfie, I think we'd have a bigger problem than just a selfie.

What did Tibbs say about Minnesota as a city? That it was great. Other than get a heavier jacket. But, you know, you don't actually have to be outside of Minnesota. They got these skyways that go over the whole city. It's like eight miles. So I don't know if I'm going to utilize that. I should just have to get in my car, go into the practice facility,

go work out, pull back into my garage later on. Are you familiar with the Timberwolves history? Well, it depends on what you're asking. It's one of the least successful franchises. This has a chance to be the second best team they've ever had. So if, let's just say from a talent standpoint this is probably the second best team in the history

of the franchise they've been around I'm going to say since somewhere in the 90s I can't remember what year okay and

let's just say that we do end up winning a championship where does that put us then my god I mean Minnesota

what if Minnesota hasn't won a championship since the twins in 91 but I mean you'd be like you'd be like otherworldly I'm just saying the what ifs you know What if? Minnesota hasn't won a championship since the Twins in 91. I mean, you'd be like otherworldly for them. I'm just saying the what ifs.

You know, you got to think the what ifs. Dude, you get to the second round, that would be like the greatest moment in Timberwolves history in four years. I'm just saying the what ifs. That's all I'm saying. You realize they look back at the KG 2004 team as the highlight of the history of the Timberwolves, and they lost to the Lakers in five in the conference finals. Well, then.

It's a low bar to climb. We got a lot of work to do, but we can do it. If we go in every day playing hard and wanting to get better, we're going to be all right, man. You're asking me. We're going to be just fine. You have 50 games against the West. Okay.

Every night, somebody else. That doesn't intimidate me any. I don't think it intimidates anybody. It'd be fun, right? Oh, yeah. That's what you play the game for, to go up against the best. Even when you play like the crap playoff teams, it's going to be like, hey, here's the Lakers with Lonzo.

Like, that's a fun game. Yeah. Every team is interesting in its own way. And it's all about who's playing the best basketball at that given night, the matchups, all of that stuff matters. We're going to be all right. We got some really good players. We got a phenomenal coach who knows how to win.

We're going to be all right. Minnesota, the T-Wolves, we're going to be just fine. Quick break to talk about our longtime buddies at Simply Safe. Getting a good night's sleep, easier said than done, especially when you think you just heard a noise downstairs. What do you do? Turn on all the lights, check your kids' kids beds or you can do what i do just send my wife downstairs to find out what happened or rest easy knowing your home and family are protected with simply safe when you install your simply safe home security system you arm your home with

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SimpliSafe with two I's. SimpliSafe, BS.com for 10% off your order. If only the sleepwalking suburban housewife had gotten SimpliSafe. Back to our friend, Jimmy Butler. Did you, when Tibbs left Chicago, did you feel like you guys would be reunited? Did deep in your heart it was going to happen? I didn't think that far ahead. Because you were kind of

cut from the same cloth, right? Yeah, definitely. But I think the first year out, he didn't coach anybody for a year. So I'm thinking like, yo, what's going on? But now that we're back together, I'm happy with it.

You know, he knows what he's doing for me every day. Ice! Can you do a Tibbs impersonation? No, I cannot. That's not... Ice!

That's my guy. And, you know, you better ice when he's doing just that. You better ice. How many hours a day do you think he sleeps? Is it over three? No way. No way.

It might be right at three, but he's just always studying the game in ways that he can improve as a coach on the floor with his players. I mean, he obviously the guy wants to win. So he's studying everybody else. And I think he expects you to kind of be the same way, maybe get a little bit more sleep than he gets. Yeah. You know, you got to study. You got to want to be great at your craft and you're willing to sacrifice some things to be that um and whenever you do that and he's seeing you doing it that's when you get to respect that man and you know he's not giving you anything i i would know i did not play my first couple of years in the league right but. But I was always working. And eventually I got my shot.

Do you worry about it's almost like physically and from a health standpoint, it's almost like too much for him sometimes? Because I like Tibbs. I just worry like especially if you guys went in the playoffs and you went like three rounds. I feel like they might have to have a medical staff at Tibbs' house just to make sure he's drinking water, he's eating food. No. He's moving.

Yeah, that he's sleeping a little bit. Maybe a nighttime nurse. I think it'll narrow in even more whenever, you know, later on in the season, in the playoffs. Now he's really locked in and he's going to come in with 16 cups of coffee and five big-ass notebooks of the other team's plays and our plays and give them to everybody. I mean, he's always studying the game.

It's crazy because I think that's why he is the person he is, and more importantly, the coach, because the guy just wants all the information all the time so he can spread it out to everybody and let everybody know, yo, this is what we got to stop. This is what we got to do. Have you thought about running the high screen with Towns yet? You must have been thinking about that a little bit.

Not right now. I still think I go about things in weeks of when I got to start. That's going to be nice. Yeah, it is. He's one of the best pick-and-pop guys. He like that. And he be putting people in the basket, too. Athletic, can shoot it.

Yeah, but I think I got like two, two and a half more weeks before I can start watching, before I start watching exactly where he likes to get the ball on the floor when it comes to the pick and pop or in the mid post. Right now it's more on, you know, you got to do what you're supposed to do before you can worry about everybody else. Did you watch the finals? No. You didn't watch the finals?

No. How come? Because I want to be playing in the finals. I know what happens in the finals because, as everybody knows, Kyrie is a really good friend of mine, along with LeBron. You know, KD, Draymond, all those guys, too. No, you're team Kyrie. You're not team LeBron. That's fine.

I'm team both of those guys. I think both of those guys are phenomenal players. But if you had to choose, you'd pick Kyrie. Let's just say I like both of those guys. You're closer in age. I like both of those guys are phenomenal players. But if you had to choose, you'd pick Kyrie. Let's just say I like both of those guys. You're closer in age. I like both of those guys. It's draft class. Yeah, draft class.

That too. 2011. Yeah, 2011. But I'm going to just say both of those guys. Okay. All right. Yeah, so I know what's going on. Everybody's like, yo, did you see the game last night?

This guy did this. That guy did that. Man, they won by four points, the final score. So I basically watch the game because everybody tells me what happens all the time. But seriously, you can ask anybody around the house. You really don't turn on the TV at all in my house because we don't watch TV. Go do something productive. And if you are going to turn on TV, do not turn on basketball. Because I do basketball all the time.

Yeah. That I don't want to see that all the time. I would have thought, because you're such a student of the game, I would have thought you would have been watching the finals looking for trends or like, oh, I wonder what this is going or that or how they stop this, trying to pick up tricks. No, I'll watch myself on film, like maybe during the finals or in the morning when we wake up.

I'll watch my games, my minutes, my shots. Trying to figure out what you were doing right and wrong? You know, I got to try to be better before I could even think about making it. I got to get us to the finals before I can even think about what it takes to get us there. You know, you got to get there first.

But I mean, if you're going to turn on TV, you can always turn on football. Turn on football and say, hey, I'll sit down and watch it with you. I will say, I've said this on the pod before, so I apologize for regurgitating my own opinions, but I thought the level of basketball in that finals was about as high as it gets. Because there's so many good offensive players.

Oh, yeah. Kyrie, KD, Curry, and LeBron were all like peak of their powers offensively, just killing it. You look at the matchups, you know what I mean? Yeah. KD, LeBron, Steph, Kyrie, K-Love. Klay. Klay or Draymond.

Like there are so many players, the shooters within J.R. Smith and Clay Thompson. Big man that rebound and can sprint down the floor. They had a lot of really, really good matchups. It's hard when everybody's playing at that high of a level to see somebody. But somebody's got to win, obviously. But it's a great series. The team you have offensively, if Wiggins goes up a level and you have three different guys plus Teague

that can create their own shot or do whatever and play at a certain pace and split, that team potentially could be really good. I think Wiggins is the key to it, though. And he's young. I think he's 22. Yeah, something like that. potentially could be really good. I think Wiggins is the key to it, though. And he's young. I think he's 22. If he turns into a reliable offensive guy,

I mean, he put up stats last year, but you can put up stats on bad teams. It's easy. I think it just gets easier, to tell you the truth. To put up stats on good teams. I mean, for the most part, think about it. Everybody keys in on you when you're on a quote-unquote bad team.

Right. I'm not going to call their team a bad team, though, last year. I have a let's call it not that successful. It's my organization now. Unsuccessful. So we're not going to say that. We're not going to say that. But, yeah, I think it gets easier because you can't key in on one guy.

Yeah. So, like, pick your poison. Who are you going to double team? All right, well, that guy's going to be open, so you can't double team him. You can't double team everybody on the damn floor. Right. So I think your job gets easier. You get to pick and choose your spots a lot more.

There's less help when you got some guys that can really go out there with you that can, you know, shoot from the perimeter, create their own shot, get you another easy one. It's not like you've got to create for everybody else and then you've got to try to create to get yours at the same time. It'll definitely be easier for them. Towns was unbelievable like the last 35, 40 games last season. I think he was putting up like 27 and 13 every night, shooting like 60%.

Do it again. Yeah, bring it back. Please continue to do that. Don't change. And I told him, don't you change the way that you play because other people are here. You still be you, who you are on both ends of that floor. And we'll come in and do the best to help this organization win as well. But you do not slow down.

Everyone's talking about how loaded the West is, and it is. But after you get past, like the Warriors are up here, then I think the Rockets are probably second. If you're just betting on who would be the favorites to whatever. The Spurs didn't have a great summer. Even though they won a lot of games last year, they lost some guys.

They have some health issue guys and stuff like that. The Clippers, Blake's not coming back until December. OKC, Paul George and Westbrook, they haven some health issue guys and stuff like that. The Clippers, Blake's not coming back until December. OKC, Paul George and Westbrook, they haven't played together before. You go down the line, everybody's got one or two or three things. You're like, well, that's... So the case for you guys being better than maybe people think right away is actually a case that I think could be made.

But I don't know what to expect of the West. You could tell me you guys are going to fish 11th, I wouldn't be shocked. You could tell me you guys are going to be the 4th seed, I think could be made. But I don't know what to expect of the West. Like, you could tell me you guys are going to finish 11th. I wouldn't be shocked. You could tell me you guys are going to be the fourth seed. I wouldn't be shocked.

Would you be shocked if we said we were going to be the one seed? I would be shocked. Okay. All right. I just wanted to get that out the way.

I would think there was like everyone on the Warriors got mononucleosis or something. Okay. All right. Thank you. In just like two months, something like that.

Damn. They just won like 220 games in three years. I'm not, look, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just thought that I would ask. I'm not agreeing with you,

but I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't have an opinion. Mine's irrelevant right now. I'll tell you though, you guys don't match up terribly with that team. Right? Yeah.

We'll be all right. Towns is an issue. It's an issue for a lot of teams. But yeah, you could, there's some spacing and some things. Tibbs might freak them out

by yelling and screaming at them the whole time. Where's Carmelo next year? Carmelo is going to be in the NBA probably. Okay. Yeah. Do you believe

he will stay in New York? I do not know. I'm not going to ask him. Okay. We probably will go to dinner tonight, but I'm still not going to ask him. Have you ever seen anything stranger than the Knicks basically ruining his trade value over the last nine months when he's still a good basketball player? I mean, Carmelo's still a good basketball player.

He's really a good basketball player. If you're playing the Knicks, you're like, oh, shit, I got to play Carmelo tonight. I'm going to have to work for it. Trust me. I said, damn. Yeah. Shit, I, he's a really good basketball player. If you're playing the Knicks, you're like, oh shit, I gotta play Carmelo and I'm gonna have to work for the two and a half hours. Trust me, I said it. Damn. Yeah.

Shit, I gotta go up with Carmelo tonight. Yeah, like it's not like, oh yeah, Carmelo. No,

I don't think anybody does that. Right. Even though he's 33, he's still got, you know. Melo can easily play another four years. Four or five.

And if he ends up on the right team, he can play another seven years. Easily. I don't know what to think anymore because like Federer just won the Wimbledon. He's 36. LeBron, everybody thought he'd be winding down at this point.

Not even close. And it just seems like the training and the dieting and all this stuff, as long as you guys keep your bodies where they need to be, it doesn't really seem like there's a time limit for this stuff anymore. It matters. And everything that they're creating and making nowadays to help with that process and everybody can get their hands on it, as long as you use it the right way, I mean, you can play.

You can add three, four, five years on to the end of your career easily. Easily, yeah. These guys, like what, Carmel's 33 now if he plays till he's 40 with the amount of money that's coming in the league I mean

he'd be making he could potentially make more money when he's 38 than he did when he was like 22 I think it's crazy what's going on

any last thoughts no oh I had one more thing to ask you uh oh let's go I'm always fascinated by these la games i think we talked about a little last time but who's in charge this year who's in charge of the games

the secret games is it still chris paul i don't know i was talking um are there more than is there a rival secret game now? What's the scene? Give us the scene. Because all you guys are here. And you're all looking to play. So who's in charge? Is there a group text? No, look.

It's crazy that you just said that. Okay. Yeah. Is that today? No, it's tomorrow. today no it's tomorrow okay it's tomorrow so yes that's uh we we we have a little chat that we're in that is can i say who that was from no you cannot it wasn't chris paul though it was not okay so there's a new generation there's a new game you know i don't i shouldn't show you that because you just got through talking about the individual earlier. So you already think something.

Yeah, no. It's just, you know, you try to get guys that talk to one another and that you can get all in a jam at one time to play some pickup. How do you figure out what the teams are? You know, you try to match people up by position accordingly. So who do you get matched up against the most in these games? I haven't played one this summer. you know, you try to match people up by position accordingly. So you just, so who do you get matched up against the most in these games?

I haven't played one this summer, but I'm going to try. But like, so Carmelo, they'd be like, all right, Jimmy,

you and Carmelo, you guys go, you go here, you go here. Something like that. You gotta try to even it up. You know, maybe me and DeMar,

he's out here. Oh, DeMar. I mean, DeMar's going to be a pain in the ass because anytime he drives in, it just, he could call a foul. Or DeMar. I mean, DeMar's going to be a pain in the ass because any time he drives in, he could call a foul. Or he could just jump up and dunk.

Got this. Jump and dunk on anybody. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You can't guard him. Who calls the cheapest fouls, DeMar? No. No, nobody.

We don't really call fouls. It's like you play through it. But if you get fouled, come on, man. Like, they're going to give you the ball. You know that you just fouled them. But the majority of the time, it's not no real foul calls. I feel like playing with Kobe back when he played, every time he missed, he probably called the foul two seconds later.

You got my elbow. Foul. Got it. If he missed. Stays here. If he missed. If he missed. Stays here.

He could give you, as we see, 81, 60, 57, all of that. Who's the number one stays here he could give you uh you know as we see 81 60 right 57 all of that who's the number one stays here guy nobody does that this isn't street ball this isn't street ball like if you get fouled somebody gonna give you the ball but normally like the defense is gonna call a foul has there ever been no a yelling match no anything no bad blood Nothing Oh yeah of course You're competing Yeah You're competing Guy anybody had to be separated

Nah don't nobody Come on Ain't nobody really Really fine Just like whenever you see it On a national televised game It's all Get in somebody's face

And Hold me back Don't you do that no more Yeah Watch those elbows Before you know it You just get attacked And then you go your separate ways

Is it spread the floor? Like, what kind of style is the offense? What's going on? Your turn, my turn? It's not organized. I know. That's why I'm asking. It's basketball.

But you guys are all, like, the best at what you do. So what happens? It's just basketball, you know? Sometimes you're moving and cutting. Sometimes there's a pick and roll. There's transition. There's all that stuff. So Kyrie's just pulling up and shooting.

Everybody's getting mad at him. Why not? No. Nobody's going to get mad at you for pulling up and shooting. You're one of the best players in the world. You probably are if you're playing on that court with everybody else. Nobody's going to be mad. Could two normal people play in these games?

I mean, yeah. Let's say somebody who played for a year in college did three. You could play in the game. No, I didn't want to. I'm watching. I retired. To be successful in that game? No.

You didn't see my retirement announcement? I did not. Three years ago, I could have been a stretch four. I don't think so. I'm just going to go out on a level. I could have been a zipser. I would have been in the corner with my hand up. Okay, that's true.

Or Jonas Jarebko. Oh, man. Okay, that Jericho okay that's throwing these guys out here like yeah that would have been my role model yeah I would have been like this I'm open don't leave me you gotta play a role man be a star in your role that's it what number would you wear you guys don't wear numbers when you play pickup team how do you know you're asking all the other questions I would wear 33 obviously for the homage for the legend. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. What if I told you that that number was taken? Taken by...

What if I just said that number was taken? There's numbers in these pickup games? You don't know what goes on in these pickup games. I really don't. God forbid you told us. It's like a secret thing, so you don't know. For all you know, we don't wear shoes and socks in these pickup games. You don't know. I don't believe that. But you don't know. For all you know, we don't wear shoes and socks in these bigger games. You don't know.

I don't believe that. But you don't know. Is the gym closed? Are people just working out on the track, watching? No. Yeah, the gym's closed. So they hook you guys up? Yeah. We're good to go. How many different locations are there? I mean, it's kind of like a text.

It's just like, yo, we're going to hoop here at this time or we're going to hoop there at this time. Has anyone been kicked out of the game where you just stopped inviting them

and you didn't know like you ghost them? No. Metta World Peace. Metta World Peace? No. He'd probably be more welcome than anybody in there

because he'd really get it well done. I'd be afraid to play pickup with Metta. No. That's like he crashes in your back. You have like a herniated disc.

Stay away from him. No, no no everybody uh if you're out there to compete for the most part if you get the text everybody's welcome i might forward it to you because i like you dame but you can't play with dame lillard in these games or is he like he's got like a whole oakland thing going uh not that i know only because i don't know if he's out here you got to kind of be out here in la you know i mean we're not going to send you a text and you know i'll be like hey pick up at three oh yeah Not that I know of. Only because I don't know if he's out here. You got to kind of be out here in L.A. You know what I mean? We're not going to send you a text and you know I'm going to be like, hey, pick up at 3. Oh, yeah, let me get there. No, nobody's going to do that. Would you rather be on Chris Paul's team or on the other team?

Because he does yell. I mean, let's be honest. Both. Both? Yeah. That's a terrible answer. Well, first of all, stop putting me in that situation. Because when I play against CP, and I like CP.

If I play against CP and I say, yo, I just want to be on this team. Not everybody, oh, so you don't want to be on my team. Oh, yeah. Oh, I want to play against CP. No, I want to be on CP's team. Now CP going to try to hit me with a quadruple double when we play Houston. You're trying to set me up. I know what you're doing over there.

That's what you're doing. Do you think James Harden and CP can coexist or no? Yeah. That's what great basketball players do. They find out a way to put aside all that other stuff to get that common goal of winning the championship. And they're both great players. They both know that, yeah, they will exist just fine.

I don't know if it would have worked if it was CP four years ago, but I think now that he's a little bit older, he'd probably welcome having somebody else to help him, right? There's a lot of things that you don't know, but you have this way of really getting like... Pretending I know? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

It's like pretend knowledge. You have it. It's crazy. So what really goes on in these pickup games? Do y'all wear jersey numbers? No. No, you brought up the jersey numbers. You asked me. It's crazy. So what really goes on in these pickup games? Do y'all wear jersey numbers? No. You brought up the jersey numbers. Is anybody welcome? Can I play? You have a way.

It's very disturbing. Are there big guys in these games? I see. Look at you. I'm asking questions. You can do it with 20 questions. I won't doubt. Are there big guys? Are there post-up players? Are there big guys in this league now? Depends what you say is a big guy.

I mean, I've seen DJ shoot threes in the All-Star game. Let's just get that out of the way. Yes, he does. That's my guy too. I'll be interested to see him and Blake this year without CP, what they bring to the table. I say they just let DJ run the point guard position. Well, what if Blake was point forward?

What if DJ was point center? DJ is point center. I don't see it. You don't see it? I'd just hack-a-shack him. Okay, never mind. But Blake as point forward would be interesting. Yeah, he can go.

Yeah, I think he's going to handle the ball a lot. Anyways, he handled the ball plenty even when CP was there. He's a tough matchup for a lot of guys. Who's your least favorite guy on the Warriors? My least favorite guy on the Warriors? Nah, I'm just – well, it would probably be anybody who's not a Nike guy. You know, I could use that. Yeah, that's a fair way to go.

I'm not going to do that. Are you Draymond? No, I'm not Draymond. No, is he in these LA games? Oh, I thought you was like, am I Draymond? No, I'm not Draymond. Is Draymond in these LA games? He do be out here.

I don't know. I will report back. I will send you an email tomorrow. Get along with Draymond? Do I get along? Yeah. Because it seems like he talks the most trash out of tomorrow. Do you get along with Draymond? Do I get along? Yeah. Because it seems like he talks the most trash out of anybody. I'm not worried about Draymond talking.

I'm not worried about that. That's what you're supposed to do. Yeah. You talk. You have fun. Just go hoot. If you want to talk, go for it. I'm all for it.

I can talk, too. But I'd rather just go play a little bit of basketball. Do Marcus Smart talk trash? Yeah. He likes to talk yeah he's from what did he talk to you?

Flower Mound, Texas that's where he's from yeah yeah he has some things to say you know cool that's my dude that's your guy?

yeah I like Marcus that's cool I was worried we were going to trade him this summer I was upset Marcus would punch me in the face? no I should punch you why?

I don't know he's on my team yeah I know well technically he's I mean he's on Celtics you're not on the Celtics that's your team? I don't know. He's on my team. Yeah, I know. Well, technically, he's on Celtics. You're not on the Celtics. That's your team? I've grown up with the Celtics since I was four.

Yeah. See, this is an argument with KD about this. You guys, fandom you don't get. You don't understand it. It's our team. It becomes part of the family. I'm here with you. Yes, your team.

The Celtics fans do love Marcus Smart, though. Yeah. I mean mean I think he plays hard he's talented I mean hell you're gonna embrace

the people that play for your team was he the one who didn't foul you when they called that bogus call right before the all-star break

when you went to the line and shot those things when nobody touched your elbow but they sent you to the line anyway that's weird because if you go back

and you look I shot two free throws after a whistle went off and they said foul on the elbow. That was the first time I was like, I didn't realize Jimmy Butler was a superstar. I think it's official because that was a superstar call. Because I got fouled. That was a superstar call. Because I got fouled. I'm not going to admit it.

Look at the rotation on the ball. Was it the air from his hand hitting your elbow that fouled you? That was terrible. Come on now. You should have missed one of them. I hit him with the hitch, bink, got him off balance, and then turn and shot. I'm not going to miss like that. That was terrible.

Just saying. Look at the rotation on the ball. I was surprised. There's the picture. Exactly. Foul to the elbow. Thank you. Because his pinky grazed your elbow? Foul. exactly thank you cause his his like pinky

like grazed your elbow foul you should have missed one the fair thing to do would have been to miss one

take it to the OT well it's a bad call you don't want to win on a bad call that's tampering you don't want to win on a bad call oh my god

I thought I thought it was a ball don't lie moment where the ball don't lie guys were gonna make you miss one of the free throws, but then they both went in and the game was over. Yeah.

Happens in the blink of an eye, too. Tommy, anything else? Did I ask all the Bulls questions you wanted? Yeah, there was a lot in there. Yeah? You got your Bulls. What about Vanderbilt? Can you invite him to play in the pickup game?

He's doing so well in the summer league. Yeah, he was killing it. I don't know. I don't know where he is. If he's here, why not? He's in Vegas, yeah. Yeah, so he's in Vegas. Yeah.

So you weren't watching the summer league either? It was like the first exciting week of summer league that they've had, although nobody plays defense, so it tends to favor the – The offensively gifted? Yeah, and the people who have the ball all the time like lonzo like lonzo's put a big stats but yeah i'll be interested to see i mean you must have played summer league a couple years i played once right yeah i played one year yeah second year lockout was my first year oh so my second i forgot about that your rookie year was

the lockout think Mm-hmm. Think about that. Now five years later, Houston Rockets just went for sale. They're going to go for some crazy number. Back then, the lockout. The Rose. D. Rose stuff. Oh, yeah.

D. Rose. Where's D. Rose go? I don't know. I mean, I've heard a lot in the media. I could act like I know a lot like you do and say, oh, he's going to end up in Milwaukee because that's what I see on my Instagram timeline all the time. But I really don't know. I haven't talked to him. And if I was to talk to him, I wouldn't talk to him about basketball

because he has enough talking about basketball. You know, he's got to live that every day. I think, you know, you let him handle that, and wherever he ends up, you wish him the best. He's still going to be a phenomenal player for whatever, you know, jersey he puts on. If he doesn't get hurt, I remember D. Rose versus Westbrook when they were both 100% young and healthy was like watching. It was just crazy. I was watching Superman versus Batman.

It was just ridiculous. They were athletically at some crazy point guard. It was just like watching two Rams clashing against each other. It still seems like he can go by guys. It would be the case for D. Rose. He can still beat guys after Dribble

get to the rim. Definitely. That's his game. He's always going to go back to that and he still has it and he's still one of the top finishers in the league.

Yeah. When he gets down there in that paint he can put all of that spin and English and all of that good stuff I think he's a sneaky signing for somebody.

Bring him like he runs your second team offense. Go for it. Let us know. You act like I'm all knowing. I can't even find out who's in your pickup game. So where do you think he's going? My fear would be the Clippers, which would be bad, I think, for everybody. I think Milwaukee is a good idea.

I actually think that he would really thrive there, potentially. They don't have anybody like him. They have guards that can play off the ball. Pretty much everybody can. They have kind of a malleable roster, so when he comes in, they can kind of spread out for him and do stuff. That would be my preference and it's near Chicago

there you go other than that I would like to see him on a team like I don't know some team where he could just get the ball and do stuff

and just go Atlanta Atlanta would be good do they they have Schroeder and that's it right yeah but like

yeah I mean he's only like what is he 28 he's your age i don't think i don't think that's over yet i just thought that team was so messed up last year trying to run the triangle and carmelo and like none of the pieces fit just that never made sense to me all right so when are you going to Minnesota? September. September something. Do you know that the season starts earlier this year, October 17th?

October 17th. My birthday is September 14th. I always go somewhere with my guys, my little team that we have around here for my birthday. I don't know where that's going to be, but after that, then I'll try to get to Minnesota. Okay. You going to go to the Vikings game? Yep. I actually think I'm going to be at the Vikings game against the Steelers in Pittsburgh.

I think that's their home opener, and I always go to that one. I go to the Broncos and the Steelers' home opener. I think they have the Super Bowl this year, right? Yep, they do. Minnesota, come back here. I'm trying to tell you and the Steelers home opener. I think they have the Super Bowl this year, right? Yep, they do. Minnesota, come back here. I'm trying to tell you. T-Wolves, Vikes, Super Bowl. I like it.

All right, Jimmy Butler, good luck. I appreciate you. I'm sure I forgot to ask something. It's okay. Just call me. Domino's online series coming on the ringer soon? Whenever you want. I'm ready.

Thank you. You know it. All right, we're going to talk some game of thrones with mallory rubin coming up some some spoilers in here so if you uh have not seen the game of thrones episode yet be careful but first i want to talk about stamps.com one of our oldest friends maybe we have some old friends on this podcast today convenient easy reliable flexible my favorite words to describe stamps.com. Why wouldn't you avoid the post office? Why wouldn't you buy and print official U.S. postage with your own computer and printer?

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and type in BS. That is stamps.com, enter BS, sign up today. Stamps.com, never go to the post office again. And since we're here, did you know that you could listen to the Bill Simmons podcast and all the other podcasts from our Ringer family on Spotify. Oh yeah. The streaming service, you know, and love for music is also fully loaded with podcasts.

Find us in the podcast section within the browse tab. When you're using Spotify on mobile or just by searching for the Bill Simmons podcast, when you're there, click to follow us to have new episodes from us delivered right into your Spotify library. This actually works. I've been listening to podcasts in my car on Spotify lately. It works. It's very easy.

Head to Spotify.com slash podcasts for more. That is Spotify.com slash podcasts. And now, as promised, a little Game of Thrones talk. All right. I am here with the hardest working women in show business mallory oh my god co-host of talk the thrones co-host of binge mode game of thrones the mother of all dragons um and in her spare time um one of our most valuable ringer inner circle people and an og from way back in the grantland days it's great to be here with my

liege lord bill simmons protector of our realm i didn't even tell you we were doing this. I just called you in my office, turned the mic on. Goodness. Thrones. Yes. Love Game of Thrones. Episode one. Yep. Dragonstone. You didn't cry. I did. I got a little emotional. Which part? The end of the cold open with Arya. It just was like, oh shit, we're back. This is happening is happening we're here again It was a happy cry It was a confusing mix of emotions Because I don't actually like what She is doing as a character I'm very concerned about her

Moral integrity and like Is there a path to A redemption for her does it matter So that was concerning but also it's like Oh shit she just took out all the frees We hate them they're gone now that's awesome and then also cold opens on the show are so exceedingly rare it was just such a thrilling way to dive right back in it was just overwhelming and then i got a little emotional and then at the end you know jorah i love jorah and then in the scenes the

this like tiny 20 second preview for next week that's my girl Nymeria Arya's wolf coming back that's like in the top three things I need to have happen in this show the rest of the way that that specific wolf coming back or Bill you know I love an animal I know I love an animal and uh Arya had to say goodbye to Nymeria so early on in the story and is the dire wolves who I I love the dire wolves i can't stand when people like they're just they're just sidekicks they're just distractions it's like no the love of a good animal yeah is an important part of a person's life and also in fantasy literature they're protectors they're not just companions when bran lost summer everyone talks about the

door and they talk about hodor and i'm like that's the summer episode motherfucker yeah that was a big deal to me and so ghost remains and i just hope that ghost is going to be okay and that john will have ghost in his life as he ranges north and takes on the night king and i worry i worry a lot and so the idea of nymeria being back in aria's life and one of the things you have to understand is in the books whispers rumors of a she-wolf roaming in the riverlands and they still sort of share this mental connection this the Stark children warging ability skin changing green seeing it's there for Arya we haven't really gotten that in the show and I'm very excited to go there as she just sort of devolves deeper into the darkness this the presence the love of a good animal bringing her back

to her roots to her family as it so often happens with humans exactly did I ever tell you I dated a shapeshifter in college no I know I'm gonna need a lot more information gonna need a lot more information is this like Tormund saying he fucked a bear

no no like just like a really hairy woman with long nails or what is my favorite uh Game of Thrones character because I feel like uh it's like what how LeBron came into the NBA in 2003 and then added stuff to his game and we watched the maturation of this young pup yeah becoming a superstar I feel like I was there for her the entire time. So you're not, you don't think that she's gone too far, that she is just now at the point where once you sort of fully understood the intention. I'm half Italian. That was revenge. I fully support it.

When you're seeking vengeance because you want to avenge something you lost, a loved one, crimes against your family that motivation is pretty pure and pretty unimpeachable but when you're just flat out murdering a room full of people and you seem to take basically pleasure from nothing else in life i guess she smiled when she sat down next to ed and had a bite of the rabbit humanizing moment but it just feels to me like she's going a little too far down the path beyond redemption i worry i love her is one of my like three or four favorite characters so i don't want that i think that's what i'm responding to is that the fear that maybe they're taking her

a little too far in that direction i wanted to have you on because um as you know i am a an idiot game of thrones fan yeah i've seen episode, but don't understand half of what's going on. And spend most of the time going, hey, that guy. Well, you did once. Oh, that guy. You did once ask what year Game of Thrones takes place in. I did. That wasn't a great start.

Was there an answer? If you had to guess, what year is it? You think it's in the future, maybe? No, Bill, it's not our world. I got bad in the future maybe no it's bill it's not our world i got bad news it's a different universe world yeah sorry to say is it past or future i just see things compared to my own world i respect it we all need to contextualize in some way so here are my here are my takeaways just from somebody who um takeaways from the premiere yeah i i think there's two types there's

three types of people you and and jason co-host of binge mode are the highest possible level like you're every single thing that happens you can put it into some sort of you know centuries-long context right kind of how when if something happens in the nba i go back oh that reminds me of the time in 1982 when blank blank blank, blank. Then there's the Chris and Andy level. Super versed. Totally into it, but not comparing it to the books and all this stuff. And then there's people like,

actually, there's probably two more levels because I feel like my wife's a level higher than me, too. And then there's me at the bottom. It's a spectrum. I love the show. I don't think about it until it comes back oh my god i had to watch the last episode to remember half of the things that happened that's a great episode though it's a great is your number one when you rank the game of thrones yeah i think

that's it's not only the best episode of game of thrones i think it's one of the best episodes television period it's incredible it's almost flawless there's no wasted time in that episode it's perfect and they even change the there's a little different music in it too right oh yeah the light of the seven yeah beautiful score the way it's edited the sound the direction it's it's incredible so is there room in this whole game of thrones world for people like me because when when this happens like i think baseball has been guilty of this to some degree you're're either all in or we don't want you. You're a loser. Right. Hockey is probably the worst of all the sports. I think soccer is really bad. The cult of the status quo, I like to call it. Right. It's like we're at this level. Unless you're coming here, don't bring your little juvenile IQ for this thing that I care about.

Just leave this to us. Stay away. It's a good question. I would argue that it's one of the things that makes the show and the story and the shared fan experience so special. And it's the reason, like as Alison Herman wrote on The Ringer last week, that it's the last piece of monoculture, right? It's the one thing that everybody can kind of agree on is because you actually just can choose to consume it the way that you want to consume it and to engage to the extent that you want to engage with if you want to theorize and you want to take screenshots of the book that

sam was looking at at the citadel last night and try to read every word and figure out what it means for what danny might find on dragonstone and how Sam or somebody might cure Jorah's greyscale. You can do that. That's there for you. Sam's the fat bearded guy? That's unkind, but accurate. Okay. I just wanted to know.

But you can also do that, right? You can also just identify characters in the way that you just did. And there are plenty of people out there who are consuming the show in that same fashion and will engage on that level with you. And everything in between is valid like i don't think that it should be like a cased system of fandom it's like if you

choose to only interact with the people who are consuming it the same way as you that's fine but part of what makes it cool is that you can basically throw anything out into the world and there's like someone there to receive it like however specific or general it is that so many people care about the story in some way or to some degree and that's like very special and rare but aria last night yeah she killed that guy or she pretended to be that guy yeah well she killed him in the finale she killed him in winter but then pretended to be him to kill everybody else faceless man i mean in fairness to her the guy did did um to orchestrate the red wedding am i correct well he executed it executed the tylen orchestrated it tylen was really yeah he was there he enjoyed it he took ruse bolton walter fray in it absolutely he ultimately issued guest rights

the wedding was at the twins at his place he issued guest rights. The wedding was at the twins, at his place. He issued guest rights, gave the salt and the bread to Kat and to Rob, and then allowed them to be murdered in his home. Not great. Not great. He deserved what he got. No doubt about that. Arya fed him his sons in a pie, though, before killing him.

Tough. The human son pie. I don't know if that had been done on HBO yet. A throwback to the Rat Cook story that Bran tells seasons prior yeah i love the way the show does that they're planting these seeds for you constantly very rare that something is just like invented very few like deus ex machina's you're not suddenly getting the solution to the problem it's there it's been there for seasons just waiting to be called into action it's great cersei jamie kind of looks at cersei at the end of Winds of Winter.

Tough moment. It's one of those looks like, wow, you've become a monster. Which is, you know, kind of like Glass Houses because he's also a monster and they had incest babies and all that stuff. I mean, really, he's not out there doing the NBA Cares program. But here's the thing about that. Why is Jamie called the Kingslayer? Because he stabbed the Mad King in the back to prevent the Mad King, who was sitting there shouting, burn them all, burn them all, from using his wildfire stores to burn down the city. Jaime sacrificed his reputation and basically, by extension, his life.

Because once you're known throughout the realm, you as a member of the Kingsguard, a knight, someone who's bound in theory by your oath and your word and honor. Once you've sullied that by killing the king that you were sworn to protect, that's kind of it for you, right? And we see how people perceive him. That's why the moment in season three in the bathtub between Jaime and Brienne is so powerful and special. It's kind of the first time that someone has allowed him to say, this is why I did this. I was saving everyone. And so he rides up and sees the thing that he sacrificed his reputation to prevent

has occurred while he was away. And not only has it occurred, it's the one person he loves in the world who chose to do that. What a devastating feeling. And of course, his son jumped out of a window. Oh my God. That's a tough one. Yeah, it's a tough one. And of course his son jumped out of a window. Oh my God. That's a tough one.

Yeah, it's a tough one. That's really tough. It's probably defamatory in some way. What's the sports equivalent of planting, finding out that there's a wildfire cache beneath a sept and blowing everybody up? That's tough. That was pretty ingenious for,

what are we, this is set in the 1300s, right? I mean, for them to think about that way chemically, 1400s? Just gonna let you put the date on it. It was after Rome. Makes you feel comfortable. In the timeline of HBO programming, before or after Rome, before or after Westworld, these are the questions.

Who am I rooting for in this, though? Who are the good guys, who are the bad guys, or is that the whole point of the show? Because I'll tell you who I'm rooting for, but they might not be the right people. You're rooting for Danny. though who are the good guys who are the bad guys or is that the whole point of the show because i'll tell you who i'm rooting for but they might not be the right people you're rooting for danny well obviously you've always rooted for i've been riding with team danny from you like ian mcshane think the show is just tits and dragons no that's not true that's not true there's plenty of places on cable to get nudity i don't need it from game of thrones it's the end it's the end dragons part that really makes it all work.

I'm rooting for Jon. I think most people at this point are probably either rooting for Jon or Dany or a union between the two. And that's the question. What is A Song of Ice and Fire? That's the name of the book series. Is Jon ice and is Dany fire? Or is Jon, if he's a Stark And a Targaryen Leon on Rhaegar's son

Is he himself Ice and Fire Is he the chosen one We're past the books right Yeah and I mean there's some stuff from the books That they have not done on the show and could in theory still do But in almost every plot line We're yeah beyond the books So even George Martin is watching this not knowing

What's going to happen What if George Martin read watching this not knowing what's going to happen. Well, I think our- What if George Martin ran over and read another book? Well, I mean, imagine being him. He basically, yeah, this is better. Well, no, I don't think it's better. I think it's probably devastating. Like, I think there's a reason

we haven't gotten the sixth book yet. And I think it's because it's probably crippling to see something. A Game of Thrones came out in 1996 21 years ago and you talked about this on binge yeah i mean he's like it's because it's upsetting to me it's like i love game of thrones a television show i'm so glad that it's in our lives and that we're here consuming it and experiencing it in the moment and i am thrilled that somebody is going to finish the story. Exactly.

But poor George, like how can he bring himself to finish this book when somebody else is getting the chance to finish his story on their terms? That just must be debilitating and devastating. But didn't he sign off on that when he showed the TV rights? Yeah. I'm not saying it's not a it's a mystery how it happened. It just must be crippling. I don't know how you sit down And you write the rest of that story after that

Now maybe he chooses to do To end it in a different way I would not be surprised by that There are certainly so many more characters And plot lines and even in the Same plot lines like just different intricacies And levels of specificity In the book that it will be

Like a different enough experience regardless like even if the end game is you know john and danny get married and sit on the throne together that's not gonna happen i don't know he can't get an erection anymore he's fine no he because he died and came back but the one thing that they haven't covered that's in episode five i think he can't he can't please people sexually anymore the blood pumps where it needs to pump also never i don't know never forget that he pleased egret with his mouth not with his tiny pecker what as torment calls it the lord's kiss in the cave oh that's right come on that's oh come on that's a great episode of television

i didn't realize you worked this blue I don't know what's happening to you. So Jon Snow is the odds-on favorite to be the champ at the end of this? I think Dany probably technically is. I mean, I think it seems to be like Vegas odds favor Cersei this season and maybe Dany for the whole story. I don't think Cersei makes it more than like three or four episodes this year. I think she's a goner for sure. Danny for the whole story. I don't think Cersei makes it more than like three or four episodes this year. I think she's a goner for sure. I don't think Jaime's going to make it long either.

But I think Cersei's out very quickly. Very quickly. Who do you think goes first? This is pure speculation. I do not know this, but I think Jaime will kill Cersei. Wow, really? Yeah. There's a prophecy.

Well, you know her prophecy from the show. Yeah. Beginning of you act like i can remember anything cold open beginning of season five opens with a flashback young cersei in the woods visits maggie the frog woods witch gets her prophecy about well she will i marry the king will i marry the prince no you marry the king how many children will we have and that's where she hears the gold will be their crowns gold will be their shrouds this is what basically informs every decision she makes in life this this fear that her children will die and the delicious irony of her characters that every decision she makes is aimed at preventing that and in attempting to you know subvert and avoid her fate she fulfills the prophecy every step of the way. The part of the prophecy that's in the books

that they cut out of the show is about her death at the hands of the Valonqar. Valonqar translates in Valyrian to little brother. Cersei in the books thinks this refers to Tyrion, but this would be, this is a classic George R.R. Martin twist, the idea of misinterpretation Jaime technically is Cersei's little brother he was born after her came out holding her foot this is canon it's established that that's the order of their birth also it says that his hands will

choke the life out of her what's the one physical trait of Jaime that we now associate with him more than anything else the hand of course Tyrion was handed the king, so that fits him too. A lot of possibilities. Popular rising theory on the internet is that now Arya will maybe take Jaime's face and kill Cersei. Shape-shifting. That's technically fulfilling the terms of the prophecy.

I don't know, just a theory. But I can see Jaime killing Cersei, and then we've seen shots in the trailer, the season seven trailers, of Jaime riding a horse in like a flaming field there's a legendary battle in the books the field of fire the battle when agon the conqueror danny's ancestors came and conquered westeros in the first place that was the battle the field of fire where he brought house linus to heal a famous bit of thrones lore and for jamie to go down and basically

like the bookend version of the battle that kind of humbled his family in the first place would, I think, be very fitting. So translating that to the level one fans, the brother and sister who are having sex with each other and the guy lost his hand and the girl who walked the walk of shame. She was naked, but then she blew everyone up. Yeah, that's right. Then they also the little guy is their brother. Yeah. And people seem to think the little guy was the one that's going to kill her. She certainly thinks so. When in fact,

you think it could be one handed Jamie Lannister. I do. One of the other parts of the prophecy is about another queen, you know, coming in and kind of knocking her out. And she has always that's why she hated Marjorie so much. She like mistakenly thought that referred to Marjorie but clearly it refers to Dany. Marjorie so much she like mistakenly thought that referred to marjorie but clearly it refers to danny marjorie tough loss good character yeah i just enjoyed the character she's great for like five seasons it seemed like she was maybe actually low-key one of the best players of the game of thrones really understood what was happening even at the end when she knew everything was gonna she knew something she did but i feel like she blew it. I think the question is, was that just, was no one going to be able to escape Cersei's wrath at that point?

Or did Margaery blow it? And I think Margaery blew it because she got too cute and tried to play the High Sparrow. But that's how they all got into that situation in the first place, was Cersei trying to basically use the High Sparrow. Oh, you're saying she blew it leading up to the moment. Yeah, as a pawn. And once you see how that has failed, to basically opt in to the same mistake is unforgivable.

What football coach would you compare her to? Margaery? Yeah. Who's the Andy Reid of Game of Thrones? Doesn't know how to use a timeout at the end? Yeah, just can't use their time properly. It might be Margaery. She really miscalculated where the play clock was there. That feels like a little Andy Reid of Game of Thrones. Doesn't know how to use a timeout at the end? Yeah, just can't use their time properly. It might be Margaery. She really miscalculated where the play clock was there.

That feels like a little Andy Reid-ish. I think you're right. That's a good one. Who's Belichick? Well, I mean, that's kind of who do you think is standing at the end, right? It might be Dany. I think Dany is not what we would call a hero because there's some real mad queen. She's a hero in my house.

I don't know. Because of the tits and the dragons? No, the dragons. I told you, I can get nudity on any cable channel. The dragons, though. I can't get dragons anywhere else. She just keeps burning people, though, you know? Yeah, that's a problem.

When Barristan Selmy was alive and with her, he literally just basically said one thing to her over and over again. And it was like, your dad wanted to burn people a lot and it was bad. Don't do that. And then she just keeps doing that. It's her thing. Which is concerning to me. A lot of Mad Queen stuff.

What stood out for you when you watched 60 Game of Thrones episodes in six weeks and took 13 pages of notes for each episode and almost had a nervous breakdown during the binge-watch podcast. Great question. I think Jason and I actually had the same takeaway. It was really fascinating watching it. I re-watched the whole show every year before the new season, but I never had done it in this concentrated

of a time span. You were in the show every time this happens? Oh, yeah. I mean, I've never done the podcast so this was this was you know not just like kind of like relaxing pleasure but watching all 60 and concentrated time span like that two things stood out one danny not impressive not an impressive arc at all actually just like a lot of real red flags And character concerns and conversely Sansa was like The biggest riser for me and Jason We were just like wow

As a character or an actress or both? As a character I think she gets a really really bad rap From people. From who? Just because of that one episode? No no no I think for years she was just like Really early on in the show's run People were just like So critical of the choices that

her character was making sometimes fairly sometimes unfairly but i think in season her rise in season six is like pretty incredible i mean she really season six is perceived as a john season obviously because of the rebirth and the battle of the bastards and certainly finding out about his his parentage at the end of the season and him being, you know, raised to king in the north. But Sansa really is the one who saves the north. Jon was, like, perfectly content to never head back to Winterfell. And she was the one who said, like, I want to do this with you, but I'll do it myself if I have to. And with the Knights of the Vale and Littlefinger and basically a lot of the things that are people raise as critical points. Why

didn't she mention the Knights of the Vale in the Battle of the Bastards? Why is she even allowing Littlefinger to hang around after he sold her to the Boltons? Like, I actually make the argument that why didn't she tell John certain key pieces of information? She has been through more than maybe any other character on the show. And she is at a point where she realizes there's only one person she can trust and it's herself and assuming agency realizing that you are in control and that the only thing you can control in life is the choice you make in a given moment is kind of the point of the story and she's one of the only characters who's gotten to that point and so i i respect it and admire it

i would argue theon went through more. I mean. No one went through more than Sansa. Theon had a really tough go of it. Really tough go. I love the part. Losing his dick is a tough one. I love the part. Did he lose his balls too?

I think. Was it the whole. The whole. Root and stem. Frank's and the beans? I think all of it. Yeah. I think all of it.

When. That's a rough one. When he's back with his sister Yara. And they've sailed across the Naracy. And they're in the brothel in Volantis. And she's like trying to like get him to snap to. And she says, I know you've had a rough couple of years. And he's like, a rough couple of years? Yeah, it was more than rough.

Yeah, tough. I don't think Theon's going to be around for long either. Is one of your top 10 questions will never get answered. How does Theon go to the bathroom? Well, there are a lot of eunuchs on the show. You know, Varys is a eunuch. All of the Unselleater eunuchs. But they cut his dick off, too.

Well, yeah, but that's like numerous, true for numerous characters. Is that what happens with the eunuchs? You lose everything? Yeah, yeah. Is this Game of Thrones world or just general eunuch knowledge? Well, it's a discussion point on the show.

You know, Dany and I think it's, I think it's, is it Dany and Missandei are talking about Grey Worm? Oh, she liked that one guy, yeah. Yeah, and yeah and they're wondering like is it the pillar and the stones so i don't know but try not to think about it too much um what was the so you do this binge mode we drop it we drop 60 episodes in like five weeks and we don't know what's going to happen but we figure it's going to be a little cult thing, but not that big. And I'm not saying it was gigantic, but we were stunned by how many people listened to all 60 in like five weeks.

Yeah, people like Game of Thrones. You asked what my takeaway was. My takeaway is that people like Game of Thrones. We knew that. We doubled down on it, but I don't think any of us had any real idea. Yeah. I think one of the things we weren't sure about heading into it was kind of what you said earlier about the different degrees of fandom is what do people want out of something

like this? Do they want you to totally live in the moment of the episode? Do they want you to always take in the full context of where we are in the story? Should we spoil anything? Should we just treat it like we don't know what's going to happen? Should we be doing like eight and a half episodes of season one being like i'm really i'm rooting for ned here yeah ned's okay you know like that's okay how do you talk about the story and i think one of the things that was cool about it is again like you kind of talk about it the way

that you think makes sense and like there's an audience for that yeah and i think that people really want to understand the world better because the depth of the world that George has built is so vast and so sprawling that even if you just study this stuff full time and it's all you think about, you can never hold on to all of it in your head. There's just too much and the idea of just being able to like go a little deeper on the things that we actually all can agree like matter the most and that we care about the most is cool and fun and i think like it's also the kind of thing where you can just still even if you're listening to something like that say i don't actually like care about all that detail but like it's fun to like remember like the dick jokes that's valid too or in some cases people don't know who half the names you're talking about right like your dad my dad loved binge mode and uh and loved game of thrones game of thrones is great and watched 60 episodes in two weeks on his ipad it's it is caring for a young puppy his own his

own version of his own nightmaria yeah binge binging game of thrones is like a true thrill it really is fun i was actually jealous of him i because i remember i was lucky enough to binge breaking bad yeah like three seasons after everyone else had started it was like i remember being at the nba finals and 13 just in my hotel room like having to be on tv the next day up until four in the morning, watching freaking Breaking Bad on my iPad, falling asleep to it, having like really weird crystal meth dreams. Yeah, not great.

The worst part about binging a weird show like Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad is if you fall asleep as you're binging, because then it enters your. Oh, it penetrates. It enters your deep sleep. For sure. I have Game of Thrones dreams constantly, constantly. I woke up on Sunday morning before I talked to thrones and i was just i was having like a lucid dream where i was like trying to figure out every time danny had like mentioned burning people but i was definitely

still asleep but i was also clearly preoccupied by making sure i could recall that information if it came up because i knew the episode name was dragon stone that was gonna be about her yeah really gets in there when is when is gonna be the oh wow episode what's your prediction we only have seven yeah it won't be the seventh we only have six left and that's not a lot i mean a couple of them are longer yeah so i i basically think it's safe to say any episode that's longer is gonna to have something like spectacular in it. But I think we maybe have like one max two quiet episodes left. What's the saddest death left? Non-animal.

I was going to say ghost. Yeah, that'll kill me. I think we really might lose ghost this season, which will kill me. And I think we lose a dragon for sure which is going to be tough for people danny can't have three dragons it's just not a there's no fight then maybe ben limber wrote a piece about this it's just if she has three dragons and nobody else knows what the fuck they're doing like how is that a fight but saddest death i think i think that tyrian is the one that people would be most torn up about.

I agree with you. I don't think people would be sad if Cersei dies. Peter Dinklage would be the most torn up, I think. Yeah, that would be really tough. He's looking at Adam Sandler movies at that point. Any Stark. I mean, any Stark death, I think, just crushes people. People would be really devastated about Arya. I would rank it Sansa.

No, no. Arya, Sansa, Tyrion. Yeah. but i would rank it sansa no no aria sansa tyrian yeah and i think there's gonna be granted he's a terrible guy and an incest guy and he has some faults but i think people will be bummed to lose jamie people love jamie i mean jamie is one of the best characters in the story like it's brianne would be a tough one too brianne people like devastated yeah people like her devastated tormond's brand cocktail dress she's beautiful she's like six three she's a beautiful woman she looks great giant yeah she's tall i mean there aren't too many like pure pure pure villains left you know people like littlefinger cersei it's actually there you know

the night king sure there aren't too many just like straight bad guys left i think if something happened to bran people would be extremely upset about that cersei um i don't think anybody's gonna miss her no it's time especially now this new haircut. The only humanizing quality that she had left was that she loved her children. Yeah. And to hear her in the premiere say about Tommen when Jamie tried to engage in a discussion about him and broached his suicide. Well, he betrayed us. It's like, well, you're done. That was it.

That was like the last shred of decency inside of you was that your decisions were indefensible but at least we understood your motivation and that was to try to help your children and once you lose that what is there that's worth rooting for you've got to love your incest babies you just have to you gotta love those babies no one else will so we got to talk the thrones on twitter right after game of thrones ends i think we could even make it tighter with like, should it come on? I guess it should come on after the scenes for next week, right? Yes.

Then boom, we're on. Did you guys get to see the scenes from? Sort of. We were walking out from our little viewing room to the set. So it goes on. It's pinned at the top of the Game of Thrones hashtag. You can also do Talk the Thrones. Send them questions. Send them questions during the show

yes send them questions as they're doing their show they love questions we got a lot of good questions even this week you asked us a question i asked you a question about how cersei has garth from wayne world's hair it's great stuff i actually thought that was insulting to garth i thought her hair looked good no it didn't no it didn't. They've managed to unsexify her. Oh, I think she looks good. A lot of people noticing that Sansa was rocking Cersei's old hairdo last night. Ooh. Yeah.

Not an accident. Interesting. When the show does stuff like that, it's extremely deliberate. The Ed Sheeran thing did not go over great, right? I'd say that's accurate. Did not go over well. I loved it. I think every episode

should have one weird celebrity thrown in two more at least right we're getting Conor McGregor and Noah Syndergaard

this season they both did Conor McGregor I think so oh no yeah I think so I have to assume

he'll be a wildling right and you and Syndergaard will be a Targaryen yeah because of the hair maybe a Lannister

I don't know maybe Donald Trump Donald Trump Jr oh my god will be a Targaryen because of the hair. Maybe a Lannister? I don't know. Maybe Donald Trump Jr.? Battle of Casterly Rock? Donald Trump Jr.? Oh my God. Can't wait. It'd be an unbelievable cameo. Can't wait.

He's negotiating with one side or the other. I'm looking forward to it. I missed having the show around even though I don't understand half of what's going on, but I love the spectacle of it. That's great.

Once this is gone, I don't know what happens to communal television. This might be the last one. Something will come in and fill the void. It always does. Do you think it has a chance to be Stranger Things or no? I think that people will love and obsess over Stranger Things for like three seasons.

And then maybe that's it. But I don't know. It's not going to be the same. The thing that allowed Game of Thrones And like you know You make fun of me But like Harry Potter

Before that It's like you have to have A story that is that deep Where the mythology Is that substantial That there's always Something new to talk about Like if the world

Is too narrow There's just a cap On what the conversation Can be And that's why You know people are like Geeks, nerds It's like well That's why the conversation can be And that's why You know people are like geeks nerds It's like well that's why stories like this work

And like inspire this kind of Obsession and joy it's because there's Always something to talk about 20 seconds on the A-list The Orioles are an abomination No one should have been worried about the Cubs Because you just should have looked at the schedule And seen that they were opening the second half with the Orioles

And known that everything was going to be fine. The starting pitching is... I can't even form a coherent sentence about it. It's so disappointing. And I'm just living in fear that they're going to trade Manny. It's terrifying to me. When is Manny a free agent? That's after next season.

He's been terrible for him. He has not though. He's hitting 230. But really, really bad. If you look at the numbers and you take it, he could put up an MVP caliber second half pretty easily without making too many adjustments. Why don't you trade him to my League of Dorks team? Make us a fair offer and we will.

We made a monster trade today. I know, I saw. I'm not going to let you bully me into a bad trade. It wasn't a bad trade. We gave up one of the best keepers in the league next year, Correa, and now we're talking fan. Nobody cares about fan. They care about Game of Thrones fantasy. That's true. I don't think you'll

ever make a trade in this league. I don't like making trades. You won't make a trade unless you get 130 cents on the dollar. Your fans would be, if this was a real sports franchise, your fans would be like, what are we doing? We're not rebuilding. We're not going for the title. Are you saying I'm like, am I the Celtics?

No, you're like the chicago bulls oh god uh good luck on talk the thrones on sunday thanks thanks for coming on thanks again to stamps.com buy and print official us postage for any letter any package any class of mail using your own computer and printer they will send you a digital scale that automatically calculates exact postage you'll never have to go to the post office again. Sign up for stamps.com. Use promo code BS for a four-week trial plus postage, plus a digital scale with no long-term commitments. Click on the microphone at the top of the stamps.com homepage

and type in BS for that special deal. Thank you to Mallory Rubin. Thanks so much to Jimmy Butler. And thanks to Spotify. Thanks to everyone at Talk the Thrones. We could not have been happier how the first show went. Spread the word. Watch Game of Thrones this Sunday night and then go right on Twitter for Talk the Thrones.

I will be back this week with two more podcasts. Oh, yeah. Doing three this week. I don't know what the hell we're going to talk about, but we're doing three podcasts. Anyway, back on the BS podcast later in the week. Thanks for listening. I feel it's within On the wayside I'm a person never lost And I don't have to ever forget