The Bill Simmons Podcast - Jonah Hill, Red Sox Magic, and 'A Star Is Born' on For Realsies | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 430)

Episode Date: October 19, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons reacts to the Red Sox advancing to the 2018 World Series (5:27) before sitting down with actor and director Jonah Hill to discuss his directorial debut film 'Mid90s', working in the Apatow circle, the confusing realm of comedy, and more (23:42). Then Bill talks with his daughter, Zoe Simmons, in the latest edition of For Realsies about 'A Star Is Born' and other teen pop culture happenings (1:35:05). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tonight's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you, as always, by our presenting sponsor. If you don't know who our presenting sponsor is at this point, you obviously don't listen to this podcast. It's ZipRecruiter. That's not smart if you didn't know that. You know what else isn't smart? Job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes. Luckily, there's a smart way at ZipRecruiter.com. They find people with the right skill for your job. They actively invite them to apply right now. Sites that overwhelm me with tons of the wrong resumes. Luckily, there's a smart way at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS.

They find people with the right skill for your job. They actively invite them to apply right now. My listeners can try for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, Hotel Tonight shows you top-rated hotels with unsold rooms. It makes it easy to book your stay at an amazing rate. Even though their name's Hotel Tonight, you can book it in advance. Perfect for spontaneous weekend getaways, three-day weekends,

staycations, road trips, business trips, booking a place with a pool. A pool would be good for you and more. So to start scoring amazing deals in incredible hotels, go to hoteltonight.com or download the app right now. Some housekeeping. Speaking of house, Joe House. I was on House of Carbs this week. If you missed it, and I don't know why you would have because you should be subscribing to House of Carbs.

We talked about pasta bars. Oh, yeah. Seems like a mundane topic, right? No, it wasn't. It wasn't mundane at all. We talked about not only why we love pasta bars, we wondered what makes the perfect pasta bar in a perfect world, what would it look like?

It made us very hungry. And then we went back to my house and ate pasta that my mom made us. So it was great. It was just a great night all around. I was also on dualreat with Ryan Rosillo, expanding on my idea that the Giants took the right pick at number two, Saquon Barkley.

So we hashed that out. We talked about the AFC playoff picture, a whole bunch of stuff. Dual Threat with Ryan Rosillo, one of our newer ringer podcasts. We have another podcast feed we're launching next week. Stay tuned for details on that one. Let's just say movies might be involved in some way.

Oh, yeah. People have been asking about the rewatchables, by the way. We put it on hiatus for a couple weeks because we had NBA and NFL and all this stuff, but it is going to come back. It'll be back by the beginning of January at the latest, maybe even a little sooner than that. So stay tuned. Speaking of things you should be aware of, Ringers NBA Palooza went up Tuesday all day.

Incredible content. And if you haven't seen it yet, I picked my 21st century wine bottle NBA team, the best possible team of all stars that actually made sense collectively as a team. It's an hour long show. It's the biggest thing I think we've done at the ringer, just in terms of like commitment, length of the show, all that stuff. So check that out as well. If you liked my basketball book, if you like hearing me compare players against different players and areas and all that stuff, I promise you you'll like this. And we also have people that come on and make fun of my picks.

There's a Kobe Bryant section that he's probably not going to be very happy about. It's really good. I think you'll like it. So check that out. Check out all the stuff we did. I was in a couple of these. I was in Wake Up and Dunk It, a documentary about our failed morning show from last year.

I was in Take Hunter 3, which left the door open for Take Hunter 4. And we did a Winspool draft. I ended up with the Celtics at number two, San Antonio at 19, and the Suns at 29. I think I've already clinched the pool. I think I won. As usual, I just mopped the floor

with these younger ringer people. They're just not as smart as me. I'm older, I the pool. I think I won. As usual, I just mop the floor with these younger ringer people. They're just not as smart as me. I'm older, I'm smarter, I'm more experienced. So it's probably not fair that I compete with them in these things. Killing them in our fit. Nephew Kyle and I, we're killing in our fantasy draft, right?

What are we, four and two? Yeah, we're coming off some injuries. We have Mahomes and Phil Rivers. Part of the great things about running the ringer is just coming up with different ways to just beat people that work here. And I'm not running out of ways yet. I think any sort of contest we've had,

I just end up winning. NFL wins poll we did, I'm winning that. NBA wins poll, I'm winning. It's, you know, veteran savvy really counts for something is what we learned over and over again here at The Ringer. Coming up, we're going to talk about the big night in baseball as well as some early 36-hour basketball thoughts. And then we're going to get to a big interview that I did with Jonah Hill.

It's funny, Sean Fantasy had Jonah Hill on as well in the big picture and did a podcast about mid-90s, which is a really good movie. This one's more about Jonah. The one I did with Jonah is more about his career and all this stuff.

He's kind of like an honorary ringer member, which I didn't really even realize until we were doing the podcast. But I think in an alternate universe, he's just working here and writing pieces about Hollywood for us.

But turns out he's in Hollywood. So that's coming up first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. I'm taping this from my house Thursday night. This part at least, this small part at the top. Brought the mic to my house just in case the Red Sox ended up winning the pennant, which seemed improbable because David Price was pitching, who did not pitch well.

The first time we saw him in the postseason was a tiny bit better the second time, but wasn't lights out or anything like that. And then tonight was really all we had. Didn't think there was going to be Craig Kimbrell tonight. Just was concerned. Seemed like a throwaway game with no Chris Sale. Just get it back to Boston up 3-2. No, was like a throwaway game with no Chris Sale. Just get it back to Boston up 3-2. No, it was not a throwaway game.

David Price was magnificent. The bullpen held yet again. And then just to see if he could put my dad in the hospital, Alex Cora brought Craig Kimball around for the ninth. And Kimball, who had given up, had pitched to 27 guys in the postseason and 14 of them had gotten on base. He threw, I think, like 30 pitches last night,

got six out somehow. And it didn't seem like there was any way we were going to see him tonight. And yet there he was, warming up in the bullpen. And at first it seemed like a joke. And then he came in and looked the best he's looked in a couple months. So maybe the strategy Alex Cora had was just to completely wear him down

and to fatigue him to the point that he got out of whatever funk he was in. He was hitting like high 90s. As usual, though, in classic Kimbrel fashion, the winning out or the last out was a warning track fly ball that seemed like it was going to go out. But this Red Sox team made the World Series. I got to be honest, there might have been some texts in my past from the weekend where I said I thought they were going to get swept.

Kind of felt that way considering with Chris Sale throwing four innings in game one and the Astros looking like the 75 Reds, it had just had all the makings. I mean, what are the odds you're going to beat the defending champs with your ace basically a shell of himself and your closer not looking great either? It just did not seem probable, but this Red Sox team got it together. And I think, you know, this has been a really fun season.

Obviously, even though the team wins 108 games, it's going to be entertaining. Not to sound like a dick, but it's just a fact. But I think it's a likable team. The 2013 team was likable too. This team really is fueled by the outfielders and J.D. Martinez in big spots. And then Kimbrel and

Chris Sale and then just the ability of different guys to step up. That's how they ended up with 108 wins. But the outfield was special. Benintendi was in a slump in the second half of the year. Kind of started to rally out of it near the end. Bradley was horrific the first half of the year and then

looked like Bradley the second half of the year. Defensively, it's the most incredible outfield I've ever seen him in. Certainly in Red Sox uniform, but it's got to rank up there with any defensive outfield. It's funny because when I was growing up, the Red Sox, you know, they'd put Tony Armas at center field and Jim Rice at left field. Dewey Evans was considered one of the best outfielders of his generation. He certainly had the arm and he was the positioning,

but not even remotely close to the athlete that these guys are. And it was just funny that over and over again, it just seemed like they were making play after play after play. I was on Twitter tonight. I think Rosillo compared the outfield to the 2000 Ravens defensively, which I thought was a great comparison. I wish I'd thought of it, but they've done it all year.

I don't know how many runs they've saved, but it gets to the point where any hard line drive or any deep fly ball, you just feel like somebody's going to get it. Bradley's the best know how many runs they've saved, but it gets to the point where any hard line drive or any deep fly ball, you just feel like somebody's going to get it. Bradley's the best center fielder they've ever had. My first favorite center fielder was Fred Lynn, and he was great for his time. Bradley's just

a little bit better. And Betts and right field has been insane. He gunned out Kemp last night from right field on a play that it didn't seem like he had any chance whatsoever, especially with the Kemp speed. Benintende, you saw, you know, made what I thought was the most clutch catch in my lifetime.

Before it was Bernanski in 1990, I think was the go-to one because that got the Red Sox into the playoffs that year. I remember watching in college, he stayed a bad camera angle. You didn't know if he caught it or not. Kind of a legendary catch with low stakes considering nothing good happened after that in the playoffs. And then I think the other one was Dwight Evans in game six, the 75 World Series.

Kind of the forgotten play of what was considered to be one of the great baseball games ever. I think it was Joe Morgan. God, I was like six. I can barely remember. But I think it was Joe Morgan. God, I was like six. I can barely remember. But I think it was Joe Morgan cranked one into right field and he went deep into the corner and got it.

And also did a great throw after. But for the stakes and considering that, people are saying it would have gotten by him. I don't think it would have gotten by him. I think he would have trapped it. But as I said on the pod a couple of days ago, when you don't trust your closer and he's trying to get through

whatever he's trying to get through in the ninth and you really have no backup plan and it's basically just him or you're going to lose and they're honing in on him every pitch and you can see every whisker in his face and the sweat going down his brow and all that stuff. There's just nothing more tense than that. I think playoff hockey is bad, but playoff hockey, at least there's breaks.

You might have a timeout. You have a chance to regroup and exhale and stuff like that, but playoff baseball, it's completely, utterly relentless. We had it against the Yankees to close the game there yesterday was worse because all of a sudden it was like wow they're they're really gonna pitch him six outs this is happening we have no other relievers we're out they took out barnes and that was it it was like kimbrbrel or bust, and just, you know, he's hitting guys. He's giving up liners left and right. He's walking people.

Every count seems like the guy has three balls, and to watch him get through that was incredible. The reason I didn't think this team was going to make the World Series was because when we got to October, I could not imagine who was going to pitch the seventh and eighth innings. We could not figure it out.

Barnes had been good during this season and had good stats, but had never really been there before. And then other than that, it was just Joe Kelly, Brazier, Unproven, all these people, Workman. And it just seemed improbable. It just seemed like that was going to be the Achilles heel of this team. And even felt it the first game against the Yankees. It was like, oh, here we go. It's the sixth inning. We already can't find a reliever to get it out of this. And then the second game, Brazier told Sanchez to get back in the box and it transformed him. He became a different guy after that. Barnes stepped up and just came through every time they pitched him. And by the time we got to game four in Houston, it just, it felt like we had two

guys we could trust, Brazier and Barnes, that were reliable. I actually trusted them more than I trusted Kimbrel by the time, by the time, by the time we got to game five. I, uh, I think that's one of the great things about baseball that you just, you know, you just never know. It's, it's such a short timeframe, right? You only have to win 11 games and somebody could just get hot for two weeks or you get some pitcher that can all of a sudden is lights out for two weeks and all this and things flip and you just, you're riding it. And I think with Brazier and Barnes, they're at least reliable enough that it makes up for the fact that Kimbrough is a rollercoaster ride

and Chris Sale was in the hospital this week. And I think if either of those guys hadn't shown up, they absolutely lose game four at least and maybe even two or three or who knows. I'm the most surprised by that. I was not expecting that. I thought this felt like a 108 game, 108 win team that was going to get to the playoffs and not going to be able to do the little things.

But then you turn out, you get two relievers. Then you throw in the defense and the flexibility of the roster and all that. And the team just started peaking at the right time to beat the Astros four straight is just bonkers. And by the way, I want to say goodbye to the words Bregman, Springer, and Altuve coming up next. I don't want to hear that for like seven months. Those three guys are absolutely petrifying. I was afraid of almost everybody in the Astros. It's a really good team.

I don't know how he beat them four times in a row. I was talking, I did a tweet about, after the Yankee thing, I did a tweet about demons. And, you know, that when it was falling apart in yankee stadium briefly with kimbrough on the mound not being able to get anyone out it was like every i said every demon from the attic had climbed had climbed into uh into the onto the sofa next to me it was just sitting there and uh and levitard's co-host du goth so i'm friends with he did a whole riff on his show about how stupid that was.

And Boston's won so many titles. How dare I? How dare I have any demons? All my demons have been exorcised. I called in. We went at it. It was really fun. His attitude was, I shouldn't have any more demons.

And he's right to some degree. But on the other hand, the first 35 years of my life as a Boston fit was spent with the Red Sox just kicking me in the teeth. And that was my generation and the four generations before me who liked Boston. It's really tough to not have that in your DNA anymore. Like, I don't care how much success you've had, short-term, medium-term, whatever. But when your default mechanism is just that, wow, things are going to go awful, this is terrible. You can ease your way out of it, but it's almost like,

let's say I was crippled with my left leg briefly and I couldn't move off my left leg and you just got used to it. You got used to not being able to use your left leg and not being able to run all this stuff. And then one day your left leg was fixed. I still feel like you would think something was wrong with your left leg for the rest of your life, even though it was fine.

And I think that's what it's been like the last, I don't know, 14 years since 2004. It's still the instinct is to think something is wrong at all times, even though nothing's wrong. And it's still a hard thing to get used to. I guess the difference is lose, like let's say they had lost the Yankee stadium game or they had blown the six out save game with Kimbrel. It's a disaster and it's a bummer. But when you compare it to stuff like the Boone home run and things like that, if you go back and read the piece I wrote for page two in 2003, I sound like a maniac. I really sound like somebody whose life is unraveling and is in danger.

And I think that's the difference. And I think a couple of the greatest what ifs of this century from a sports standpoint, what if the Red Sox hadn't won in 2004? I think everyone just would have gotten more and more psychotic as the years went because this year is 1918, 2018. This would have been the 100 year anniversary. At that point, I probably would have stopped

following baseball. So I think that was a big what if. I think Klay Thompson was the what if that led to LeBron winning the title. I think OKC would have beaten Cleveland. But then the what if

if LeBron hadn't won the title, if they hadn't come back in that Warriors series, he never could have left Cleveland. He made too big of a deal of, you know, I'm back here, I'm back here to bring us a title. You can't leave after that. He's stuck there until he wins the title.

So, you know, at least to go with the Lakers, the whole thing. But, you know, it's been an amazing 14 year run. And if your teams aren't doing well, you definitely don't want to hear me talk about it. But I did want to say, I really do like this Red Sox team. It's really, it's really great, man. I'm sorry. I can't apologize. You know, who's fun to watch?

Mookie Betts. You know who else is fun to watch? Ben Intende and JD Martinez. And this is just a really fun team. They're certainly not the scrappy underdogs. The Red Sox, I think, had the highest payroll in the league. But it's been really fun. And Dodgers, Red Sox? If that's on the table? I think Yankees, Dodgers is the biggest.

The biggest World Series we can have are some, it's like Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, in some order, mix and match. That's going to be just kind of feel bigger and have these fan bases with these generations of things. Maybe throw the Giants in there. I don't know. They're probably fifth on that list.

But Dodgers, Red Sox, two franchises that, I don't know. I mean, they might have played in the 1910s. I don't even remember. The Red Sox were in like six World Series that decade. But they certainly haven't played since. And then you have situations like my dad, who grew up in Brooklyn as a kid and was a Dodgers fan. And then they left and they moved to LA and he basically did not

have a team for the next 10 years until he moved to Massachusetts to go to school and fell in love with the Red Sox during the 67 season and has been a fan ever since. But I do think there's, with the older generation, like probably the 70 and overs, I think there are some Dodger fans who they left and then they eventually became Red Sox fans or somebody else fans. And a lot of those people are still around, including my dad.

But Dodgers, Red Sox, it just felt like something we would never see. So that would be fun. I would also be fired up for the Brewers just because Red Sox Brewers would be so bizarre. Oh, Nephew Kyle says in 1916, we had a little Red Sox Brooklyn thing. I think Hubie Brown announced that. But Dodgers, Red Sox would be freaky and for me there's a revenge factor because one of my closer friends hershey giants fan and i feel like he has something over me with the two giant super balls giants pats and red sox dodgers now is my one chance to flip the script i'll never be able

to flip the script because the giants ruined the 16 and the 16-0 Pats and then did it a second time. And we basically put Eli Manning in the Hall of Fame because of those two games. He's easily one of the most mediocre quarterbacks of my lifetime. And he's now in the Hall of Fame because we blew those two games to him. So Dodgers, Red Sox, the ability to flip the script on all the New York Giants fans who are also Dodger fans. I don't know how many of them out there. Maybe it's just my friend Hershey and his brother, but I would relish the chance of that. And just in general, good times all around. I was going to FaceTime my dad, but I think he probably passed out on the couch and maybe not from joy. I think Craig Kim FaceTime my dad, but I think he probably passed out on the couch. And maybe not from joy.

I think Craig Kimbrell might have actually, maybe he just passed out from fear. But I don't know, man. Maybe Craig Kimbrell's back. But this is, to think that the Red Sox made the World Series, they got four in an exotic Chris sale, and Craig Kimbrell was just a walking heart attack the entire time. And they had David Price in a closeout game. Like, just ridiculous. I never gave up on David Price.

I had the tweet to prove it. I was the one person who believed in you, David Price. So, yeah, we'll see. Red Sox versus Dodgers. Red Sox versus Brewers. Who knows? So yeah, we'll see. Red Sox versus Dodgers, Red Sox versus Brewers, who knows. For football picks this week, I am banning myself from making picks this week. I went 0-3 last week. I've had an embarrassing season and I got to be honest, I'm very distracted between basketball starting this week and the Red Sox And I'm suspending myself for the week. You don't deserve to hear my picks. I'm not doing them.

You can't make me. But what I can do is give you an awesome podcast with Jonah Hill, which is coming up right after this break. Hey, Google Pixel, unleash the most powerful pixel ever on the network chosen by Google Verizon. Oh yeah. Pixel 3 has more than just any camera. It takes group selfies,

snaps in portrait mode, and helps you always pick the perfect moment with top shot, which automatically recommends the best pics when no one is blinking and everything looks just right. Also, the Pixel 3 has the power of Google Lens, which means you can search what you see. And when you get the Pixel 3 on Verizon, it comes with America's best network. Now families can mix and match their unlimited plans and the best network with unlimited on Verizon.

Everyone in the family gets what they want without paying for the things they don't. I've seen this Pixel 3. The camera is actually incredible. Just throwing that out there. Visit your local Verizon store today or learn more at vzw.com. That is vzw.com.

All right, Jonah Hill is here. We talked for a while actually when I had my HBO show we had a good time we talked about the Lakers yeah Kanye who's gonna get Jack's seat

you got you got very uncomfortable cause it was foreshadowing a time in life where Jack's not gonna be with us but then we both realized Jack's gonna be here forever nobody gets Jack's seat

no I think he's gonna live to be 291 years old could be that's the over under it's 291.5 is he the only like white dude who could pull off sunglasses inside always

yes yeah I'm trying to think is there some rapper we're forgetting but I mean like just as a cool enough like actor just a random white dude to be able to wear sunglasses and be that cool

and not be a rapper, basically. Who would be the number one celebrity who said to you, I saw mid-90s, it was awesome, man, nice job. That would make you just melt inside.

Would it be Jack? It already happened, but it's more filmmakers or skateboarders, right? So you'd be like a director. Or rappers. Yeah, director, rapper, or skateboarder. Those would be the three people that I value,

you know, like if you know, you know, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that kind of thing. And everybody else, I love watching people respond to it, but, you know, PTA and Spike, like people like that, or Mark Gonzalez or Q-T and spike like people like that or mark gonzalez or q-tip like people like that are the people that kind of are the cornerstones of why this existed or what i would be trying to um you know like heroes of mine basically those are the people that inspire me the most or have

inspired me well and as an actor you have the the old, oh, you're going to direct? Like we've seen that before. The cliche of, oh, all right, fine. I like to choose things. Go try this. I like to choose things like skateboarding, hip hop, and actors turn directors, working with kids, non-actors. Every possible thing that someone shits on is like what I guess I try and walk right into.

And maybe that's a good way to go about it it was a good movie oh thanks man that means a lot you have good tastes well you you used wave of mutilation which i was fired up about because the uk the surf version the real version my favorite version yeah because pump up the volume had it oh yeah i know you know i love that film yeah and it was like the key part of pump up the volume you know i saw samantha what is this what version is this how do i get it and it was just for years and then finally when the itunes and that era came on i was like there it is i know you could finally get it i think i think if you're uh i don't know i think a lot of being a director

a lot of directors i know like you just you emotionally see or hear you hear a song and you see your own version of it right say you're at the gym or you're just walking around new york or something like for me like you hear a song and it has your own personal connection to it your own experience and as a filmmaker it's amazing because you get to put the emotion and the visuals to how you experience that song. And this whole movie was like that for me. Well, you're born in 83? 83, yeah. So your generation was used to that,

like used to music being used to advance a story in a creative way. Yeah. I remember. I'm old enough to remember when that started. Was it American Graffiti? No, it was basically Miami Vice. And it was like the music videos for two years. And then Miami Vice was the first one that entire parts of the plot were advanced with a song.

But Scorsese movies like Mean Streets and stuff definitely had some, like Scorsese had some iconic. But I'm saying Miami Vice was like, this is. In the 80s? Yeah, this is just like the key moment of this entire episode is just going to be crocking at this phone booth with a song. Do you remember your favorite one? Well, that was how the Phil Collins song blew up a second time. In the air tonight?

Yeah, in the air tonight. Was from that? Oh, yeah, from the pilot. Wow. Didn't it say anything to you? Yeah, that was five, six years later. Sorry, this is not my era. I'm trying to put it.

They did Biko and Peter Gabriel. I'm going backwards. But that was the first time I remember music actually being as important as any character. And then I think that came and came. But I noticed that with your movie. And it seemed like you took care of not just picking the songs people thought

you would have picked in that movie. You had some underground gems. I mean, to me, as much as I'm a cinephile, I'm a skate nerd and I'm a rap nerd. And to me, those as much as i'm a cinephile that's i'm a skate nerd i'm a rap nerd and like you know to me those were a big part of this movie was to like elegantly frame hip-hop in a way i think hip-hop like skating is always butchered in movies it's either like someone driving through the hood or someone popping bottles of champagne or something you know stupid like that and to me the music that's the emotional backbone of me growing up is hip-hop music so I wanted to make a film that could show that tribe was to me what the Beatles were to my parents

right or Mobb Deep is Rolling Stones etc like that is important to me that it's not just used as a move but used in the way that I I perceive that music to be was there any song that you didn't get that you were bummed out you couldn't get the rights or uh no I but we didn't have a lot of money it was just writing letters and begging people to use it and screening in the movie yeah for real like that's it like I didn't have I think everyone like the knock on when like an actor makes a movie or someone who's in Hollywood or like he just cut a check for all these songs. Like I had no money. I didn't pay Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross any money.

I didn't like, you know, it wasn't like that. So people just showed up for passion, which it was really meaningful. You know, I would figure I would have thought there would have been one estate that got a little salty. Like somebody, especially like the Wu Tangs. Well, sometimes there's samples involved. And then what happened was I went to Morrissey first because I figured that would be the hardest. Plus fun to go to Morrissey just for anything.

Yeah. No, I mean, I wrote him this letter that really meant something to me. And then he said yes right away. And then I'm- Yeah. He just said yes. You didn't have to show up to his castle? I wrote him a really personal letter.

You know the coolest thing about him though? What? He is the only modern author, like when he did his autobiography, he said he'll give it to Penguin, but it has to be on Penguin Classics. So it's all like, you know, like of mice and men

and then Morrissey's autobiography. It's just so, he's so sick. Like he's the coolest. And then I'm lucky enough to be friends with, and one of the first people, the first person I showed a first cut to was Q-Tip. And so once I had Tribe and Morrissey, I think people were like, oh, this is, you know,

cool people are, yeah, exactly. Like get some of the big dogs first. And then some people are like, okay, we can participate. That's what would happen with 30 for 30. We had to get like the first three. And then you go to everybody else and be like, we have this guy, this guy, and this guy. And then it's like, boom. It's what would happen when 30 for 30. We had to get like the first three and then you go to everybody else and be like, we have this guy,

this guy, and this guy and then it's like, boom. It's a tried and true formula, I think. You just go for what you imagine is the hardest

and then they're like, oh, that person's in on it? I think I've fully done movies where just because they got someone I thought was cool was in it without even me thinking

too much about it. Did you get double crossed ever? In that scenario? Yeah, yeah. Yes. You're like, we got Leo, we got Jack Nicholson. I don't know what it is but it's like, yeah yes you're like we got Leo we got Jack Nicholson

I don't know what it is but it's like yeah you want to be what's that did you ever see what's that great doc about Shep Gordon Super Mensch

did you see that Mike Myers made it oh it's so I don't think I saw it it's so up your alley it's about Alice Cooper's manager Mike Myers from SNL he co-directed a movie

called Super Mensch about this music manager named Shep Gordon who's basically like zealot like he's just been everywhere just side note you would love it

it's so up your alley but he had this thing where he was trying to blow up Anne Rice is that the singer like the kind of old white woman or like the white

like kind of corny woman from the 70s is that Anne Rice no Anne Rice is the author is the author yeah corny from the 70s I'm blowing it.

Whatever. She's like a John Denver kind of singer or whatever. And he got her in a picture with the Hollywood vampires, like Alice Cooper, John Lennon, and Harry Nielsen. And he's like, it's by association. You shine it by association. And I think everyone kind of does that in some way, where it's like, just be in the photo with John Lennon

and Alice Cooper and Harry Nielsen and you're going to be cool by association, right? So I think you do that in life too. Like you've made horrible decisions as a teenager, which is like what the movie's about basically, just because you're seeing someone you look up to or respect do it without even thinking about what your personal, you know, stake is in that decision.

I don't want to ask you the same questions. I know you're on the, you know, you've done a few interviews. Yeah. But what made you, this is the only one I'm going to ask you that you've answered before. Sure. What made you want to tell this story? What resonated it? Because it's like, it's a really personal you know I don't think

you grew up exactly like this kid so what was it that drew you to the kid and the character for those who are listening who haven't seen it yet it's this kid with this older brother who hates him yeah the movie's called Mid 90s Mid 90s we said that before I'm gonna keep plugging it though no you're the man you do whatever you want I'm just happy to be here

this is cool out of the things I have to do to promote movies this is is an obvious high point. Oh, thank you. So he's got a mean older brother. He's got an abusive older brother. He's got a weird single mom thing going on. He's a latchkey kid. Yeah.

And he's got a single mom who's kind of figuring out how to be an adult herself. And he's lonely. And he's really lonely. And he's trying to figure out a way into connection. And he sees skateboarding. He sees these kids and their, I'd say their brotherhood and their connection. You could see from 10,000 miles away.

And whether it was skating or anything, I think everybody's just looking for community. And he makes these friends. And it's about like when your friends are far more important than your family. So what was your version of that? Skateboarding, you know? Well, it's been many different things, you know? When I was way younger, it was like the Simpsons, right? And it was like other kids who were into like comedy

and the Simpsons and stuff like that. And then skateboarding. So I grew up skating in West LA. This is not like my story. It's not a biopic. I sucked. But, you know, I'm sure Barry Levinson can't smash home runs, but he can make a damn great movie about baseball.

It's like, to me, it, actually, I don't want to talk shit about Barry. I like Barry a lot. He's one of my heroes. He probably can smash him. Fuck that guy. He's like, dude, I can hit 50 home runs. I hit a 250 home run. he's my one of my heroes he probably can smash him he's like dude i can hit 50 home runs um no but but it came into my life when i needed it and it provided me with a community it provided

me with there's just such an anti-subversiveness to skating and especially at that time as opposed to now now it's gonna be like an olymp, but yeah, you know, society kind of shit on skateboarders, but it was very like punk hip hop, big brother magazine was the humor was so subversive, the taste in music, how you dress just like a lens that you see the world through. But when I got old enough to reflect on it, it was really just a bunch of outsiders who loved one another, you know? And that to me, I always knew skateboarding was going to be part of my first movie,

if not a central part of it, you know? I intentionally didn't read any of the interviews you gave for this. Cause I'd wanted to be surprised by your answers. Cool. The one thing that I noticed in this movie and I have no idea if I'm on it or not is it felt a little like, like kids, the Larry Clark movie, like the vibe of it. Was that, was that in your head at all or no i think it's like the funniest knock for people like who haven't seen it is like they're like oh kids 2.0 and it's like they're saying that like when the trailer

came out like you know like you go on instagram and they're like kids 2.0 whatever you know and well it's not like kids though that's the thing thing. But it had that kind of, I didn't have a history with any person in the movie except Lucas Hedges. Right, so you don't know anything. So I don't know anything. So I'm just like all these new people are in my life. No, it's totally fair because it's mid-90s skateboarding.

So the aesthetic is, I mean, identical, but it's us matching to that period without it actually being in that period. So it's essentially like a full period piece. But Kids came into my life the same way Goodfellas did, like a wrecking ball. It's one of my seminal movies for me. So the movie's made with such huge consideration of kids.

In fact, I put Harmony Korine in the movie as like an ode to kids, like a little nod of respect. And he read the script and gave notes and has been a big supporter of it. But to me, it's the same. I mean, it's the same world. Cause they're,

they're skaters in the mid nineties, but it's kind of like an anti kids. Cause kids is beautiful and it's nihilism, right? It's kind of like the world's ending tomorrow. Let's fucking blow everything up. When I never wanted to see the kids from kids again, at the end of the movie,

I was like, I'm done with all these people. Your movie, I was like, no, wait, I want to hang out more. What's going to happen? Well, the, the, the, the difference movie. I was like, I'm done with all these people. Your movie, I was like, no, wait. I want to hang out more. What's going to happen? Well, the difference is that this movie is all about connection.

It's literally all about hope that even if things are really messed up, even if you make terrible, possibly life-ending decisions, people have love for one another. And I think, to me, the only reason to get out of bed in the morning is to connect or create. And often those things really overlap with one another. And so I don't really have a nihilistic point of view. I really, whether it was back then or now,

I can get really negative, but ultimately what keeps me going is connection. And I wanted to be the kind of filmmaker that makes filmmaker that, you know, makes things that even if things are gnarly or they're harsh or they're uncomfortable or unsettling, ultimately there's a heartbeat of like connection there. And I like films like that.

Yeah. So you don't know this, but I got involved a little bit with this documentary that HBO is coming out called Momentum Generation. Have you heard about this? No, not yet. It's coming out in December. December, you said?

It's a movie about Kelly Slater and all the dudes that he surfed with in Hawaii and this brotherhood that they formed in the early 90s. Wow. And what happened was this guy that was with them started making videos and was putting this punk rock music to it that nobody had really heard. And it kind of spawned this whole movement. And then all those guys blew up and became super famous. It's a really good documentary. Like, I'm really proud of it. But it was funny that there was, in this parallel universe, the same sort of skateboarding thing.

Now, there was no Kelly Slater for skateboarding in the mid-90s, right? Was there somebody that... Because Kelly, he became famous because he was on Baywatch and started dating Pam Anderson. I mean, not really. I guess Spike Jonze would kind of be the artist in residence of this culture. Yeah, because someone who became a very the face of it kind of just represented the a version of the artistry that comes from these kind of individual sports so it's like a group of individuals that form a team unlike baseball it's like or basketball

or organized sports it's really kids who don't want to be in their fucking house who like are out there in the streets and or a little damaged in some way and they're just searching for something. There's a type of person that is drawn to something where you slam on concrete over and over and over and have to get back up and do it again. And the only result is really personal. Right. Or maybe a high five from your friend. It's not like hitting a home run in a stadium.

And it's not like just a generation of great artists come from skateboarding. And I think whether it's customization of your board or the graphics or artists or filmmakers who filmed or like myself, like I was a filmer. I sucked. So I filmed everybody. Spike's kind of the, was the poster boy for that working. And he's a friend and a collaborator and a mentor. Spike was the poster boy for that working. He's a friend and a collaborator and a mentor.

I think he does represent. I'm not an ambassador for the culture. I'm just a kid who it affected. Spike is a really good artist to come from that world at that time. The other parallel with the surfing and the skateboarding is the crazier the thing you pulled off or the more kind of reckless and it somehow worked the more cachet you kind of have in your group like holy shit just seeing that guy like when he's out of his mind in the movie when he falls i don't want to spoil it but he does a thing that he lands basically below a building well this kid is like whoa man that was cool i mean that's what gains

him respect along with sexual achievements, right? So it's like in the movie, there's, you know, a scene where he has his first sexual encounter and it's very uncomfortable to watch. He's a young kid, you know, and the girl's older. And not only is it the pain you endure that gets you up through the animal kingdom, you know, sexuality at that time, at least from my perspective, in a truthful way, was taught as like, as opposed to joyous connection, it was currency to get respect, right? Which is lessons we're all having to like unlearn now, right? So to me, it just, whether it's the homophobic language, whether it's the misogyny, whether it's all this stuff,

I wanted to try and be authentic and I wanted it to be raw. And it is hard to watch a lot of the time, but it's the truth. And I really, the people I've worked with, my heroes that have mentored me the most, they're not moralist filmmakers. I don't really want to be a moralist.

I kind of want to present a palette and let the audience decide how they feel and that's one of the reasons i like the movie because it doesn't shy away from things that are hard to watch in my opinion whether that's self-abuse whether that's you know the way people speak to one another um i just wanted to show people fronting for one another and then what it's like privately also yeah well i think that's been a real conundrum the last couple years you saw it with the game of thrones the creators of that show and people what was that about some of the content and this show's too mean to women. And it's like, this is a show with dragons. You know, like this is a complete alternate universe and everybody's awful to everybody.

I forgot someone was saying about talk show hosts, how now they have to be like our moral guides all of a sudden when something fucked up happens in culture. And it's like, no, dog, you're a comedian. Like you tell jokes, you know? Like to me, putting something in a film isn't supporting it it's showing it what's also art and it's you're creating characters and you're not condoning the behavior of the characters sometimes yeah and i don't know i just think i i hope if i'm

lucky enough the reward of all this is i'd get to make another movie all i want to do is just make movies like i love it i hope to always make complex, challenging characters that aren't as easy to sort of like take away what you feel about them. These kids do some horrible things. Like ultimately they're there for one another. And so it's not so black and white. And to me, movies are their best

when things aren't so black and white. Let's take a break to talk about the Microsoft Surface. Need a device that helps you get stuff done, but is also perfect when you want to catch up on some fun, like streaming live sports or checking on your fantasy team? Check out the latest member of the Microsoft Surface family. It's the new Surface Pro 6. Just take the keyboard off and use it like a tablet or snap it back on and use it like a laptop. It's that easy. With up to 13 and a half hours of battery life and the new 8th gen Intel core processor, it's everything you love about the Surface Pro, now even more powerful. That is

the new Surface Pro 6 from Microsoft Surface. And since we're here quickly, some people asked about the t-shirts we were wearing from The Ringer's NBA Preview Palooza on Tuesday. Well, all you have to do is go to theringer.com slash shop and you can find those t-shirts and a whole lot more. So theringer.com slash shop, hats, t-shirts, stickers, you name it, it's all there. Check it out.

Back to the pod. We did this podcast called The Rewatchables where we go back. I love it. Oh, thank you. I love that. We did Wedding Crashers and we're like, this is a movie I made now.

But I think two good examples that you were in, so Superbad, like you watched that. Now I watch it with my kids. So my daughter's 13 and my son's 10. We started watching. I'm like, ah, they're old enough for Superbad. It'll be fine. I hadn't seen it in a couple of years.

Right. And it was like 20 minutes in. I'm like, all right, we're not watching this anymore. The language that everybody was using. I was like, wow. I didn't realize. And it was only 10 years ago. But I still stand by the movie.

That's just how kids, you're trying to represent how kids are talking I was like, wow, I didn't realize. And it was only 10 years ago, but I still stand by the movie. That's just how kids, you're trying to represent how kids were talking in whatever year that was. It's interesting. It's an interesting thing. I think we're in it in so many ways. Mostly, I just want to listen and be helpful to people if I can, because I am a straight white dude. And literally, no one really wants to hear how I feel about this shit.

So it's like, I'm just here to listen, help out if I can be better. But yeah, man, I mean, look, like to me, I waited to become a filmmaker is what I wanted my whole life. I fell accidentally into this amazing acting career and got to learn from all my heroes and it's been insane. It's been amazing. But ultimately I'm serving someone else's vision, right? And to act is to be seen and to write is to be heard. And so for me,

I had to really think about those things when making this film. If I'm going to show the 90s, am I going to show it as raw as it was or am I going to rewrite history, right? Yeah. And I felt it was more offensive to rewrite history than to show it how it was or am i going to rewrite history right yeah and i felt it was more offensive to rewrite history than to show it how it was and that should be the point in my mind right yeah

but look like you make yo the one thing that is hard right now and i i the reason why i couldn't stay just in comedy like just straight up comedy is because a i think the reasons why a lot of comedians are dark is because everyone has so many sides to themselves and if you're limited to showing just that sliver of who you are you won't be able to sort of maintain the facade i don't think as we've seen now in lots of ways so that was just a part of who i am. And at the same time, how the fuck are you supposed to be funny now? Like, I don't understand how you could do it. Like to write something funny, to do anything good, you have to fail forward, right? So a great Chris Rock joke starts as like a decent Chris Rock joke, or maybe even a bad Chris Rock joke. So if someone's filming his sets as he's sharpening his act and trying to get a joke

ready, how is he ever supposed to get to that great point? And if it's funny, it's hard now because things are getting better in a lot of ways because people aren't getting fucked with that have been marginalized, but they're also unable to laugh at things. And so it's a tricky thing that I'm not really able to reconcile with. You know what I mean? Like I have a hard time with it because I am someone who's been marginalized, even though I'm a straight white dude, I'm someone who's been made fun of like constantly throughout my career. Yeah.

But also I have a sense of humor. And so it's like this tricky thing where people are sensitive and they're, they're also want to have fun and enjoy life and laugh. Right. So it does put everybody in their own unique personal situation, but the coolest people like Chappelle or whoever, they just make their art and they walk through it and they stand by what they make.

And I don't know, I'm still there watching it. Yeah. Chappelle's two specials were really fascinating because he just was like, fuck it. Yo, I was at one of the Chappelle shows, and one of the things, there'd be a moment where the Asian person next to me was super offended

or a moment where I was super offended or a moment where someone else was super offended, but everybody got it, right? So it's like everybody's sort of an equal, everyone's fair game, right? He spreads it around. Yeah, and he doesn't fuck around. He's a genius.

And I also saw things that were like deeply upsetting to people. Should Dave Chappelle not make comedy specials anymore? He's the best living comedian in the entire world. Like I hope he gets, you know, like we're just in a weird place in our world and we have to just like kind of understand that and like let other people sort of dictate where it all plays out because that's what's up.

Yeah, but the comedy, it's removed the safety net. It's like if comedians are the circus performers on the trapezes that catch each other, but it's okay because there's the safety net at the bottom. Now there's no safety net. And when somebody is trying out a 10 minute routine at a club and amps it 10% too far. Your career is over.

Yeah, you don't really know until you made the joke or like, oh yeah, you're right. I shouldn't. I should alter that. Yeah, all right. There's a cool idea here. I'll tweak that when I'm actually on stage and now it feels like your career could be ruined

if somebody's iPhone camera-ing your joke. What was so rad about like Lenny Bruce and people like that, right? So think about this. Things were so conservative, right? That there was such a, the line was so close to us, right? It wasn't this loose line. So if Lenny Bruce is saying anything sort of controversial, it's sort of making fun of the conservatives, right? And that is punk and that is rad.

And we celebrate that. And a generation is formed on that, right? Or Richard Pryor, whoever, right? Richard Pryor is a good one too. A great one. Now that everything is about sensitivity, which I'm not saying I disagree with. I'm a sensitive motherfucker who hates being made fun of

and it hurts my feelings deeply. And I talk about it. So I'm not saying I have an answer'm a sensitive motherfucker who hates being made fun of and it hurts my feelings deeply and i talk about it so i'm not saying i have an answer there is an answer but my point is now that everything's about sensitivity the only way to be punk is to go to the other side and that's not allowed any longer because your your career's over so it's like that's what's gonna happen though huh i think that's where this is going to go. I think people are going to rebel the other way because that'll be the interesting place to be. And we just got to sit back and watch.

And that's- That's what's going to happen. Yeah. Because I'm with you. I don't know what happens to comedy. And I don't think, sometimes you can't legislate what's funny. If there was like- Because if you're going to do that,

you could go back to the first five years of SNL and we could go through 50 sketches and be like, that show should have been off the air. I mean, I was reading Harold Ramis's daughter's book and she's talking about how she would get on Harold about Animal House now. Like the politics of Animal House. Yeah, and I haven't seen it since I was a kid

and it actually wasn't that movie for me. Animal house can be legislated because there's an actual like a date rape thing in animal house that but that's my point that's like not my film right yeah i was 40 years ago yeah like for me i was more like coming to america and stuff like that or my like seminal comedy but like yeah like shit changes jokes get weird. It's all weird, man. And to me, I guess I'm trying to, you know, you saw my film, right? So it's like, there's really funny stuff. There's really emotional stuff. There's really violent.

There's really joyous stuff. But it's authentic. And I think authentic is what matters. And that's my point is like, I'm willing to kind of just say what's up and hope that the people that understand know where my heart is but it's also not my job to tell people how to think I just want to if I'm doing something about time period I want to tell the truth you know

my only issue is when we go and go backwards and try to legislate art where it's a tricky zone you know like even you could go through I'm sure the Apatow movies and be like oh well that I mean you could go through I'm sure the Apatow movies and be like oh well and it's like

I mean you could 100% but we weren't doing that when they came out I was talking to a friend of mine who's gay and he was like saying like do you remember in 40 year old version

when they're having that whole scene where they're saying like you know how I know you're gay and I was like whoa I didn't even if you had told me at that time like how fucked up

I'm not in that scene by the way but like everyone loves 40 year old version I don't know like and it's like i know those dudes are not hateful mean people and then my friend's like yes fucked up and you're like yeah it is so it's both it's still a funny movie and that scene is fucked up and it was not meant to be fucked up but it wasn't thoughtful someone calling me you know some like fat clown or something, or like they're making some joke about me. They're just being funny, but they don't realize it like hurts me

very much and very deeply, you know? And so it's hard to delineate that kind of stuff. I'm saying it's a little, it is, it's not so black and white. Like everything, it's not so black and white. There's gray and there's textured all of it, you know? Well, and I think if somebody's doing it in 2018, when we have a little more knowledge about stuff, then that's a different story. I don't like going backwards. Yeah, you know, it's actually interesting because my little sister, Beanie Feldstein,

who's like the illest actress ever, shout out to Beanie. She's in Lady Bird. She's killing it. She's like, you know, she's the og when it comes to like feminism privilege like she schools me constantly right yeah and it's really cool to hear because she doesn't a she doesn't like put me down like i'm a moron if i don't get something and she tries to teach me in a positive way right but it is really things you don't think about are fucked up to other people. You know, a joke, you might make a joke or Howard might make a joke about like making fun of me on the air when I'm not there or something.

And it might kill me, you know, like it might actually make me like depressed for two weeks. Right. But he's just like, hey, that's a joke. I just make it a joke. It's all love. You know what I mean? It's like people hurt people without thinking about it. So I do think sensitivity is a good thing,

but it's also just layered. You know what I mean? It's just more complex than we, than we could just call it on either side. Howard is immune from all of this. It's amazing. He is immune from all of it, but he also changed.

He also changed in a lot of ways. He still gets away with a lot. I was driving around two weeks ago and he was Prince. Prince's estate had sold his song to some terrible ads. And Howard was having so much fun with it because Prince was like, don't do anything with my likeness. I'm going to change my name. Like you can't do any, wouldn't sell out in any way.

And now his estate is selling. And Howard was so funny for five minutes, just making fun of this. And I was like, he's the only person who could do this. He couldn't. You know, what's actually kind of was like, he's the only person who could do this. He couldn't. You know what's actually kind of weird is like he's – I'm going on a show next week. He's more sensitive than anybody. Oh, God, yeah.

If someone made fun of him, he would be so hurt. And I kind of hope we get to talk about that on the show because to me, there's this whole male and like, look, I'm not a sports bro. I'm not like – I'm a sensitive dude and I'm not a sports dude. don't i i'm not like you know i'm a sensitive dude and i'm not a sports dude and some of your audience i know might murder me but like for me like i am a sensitive person if there is this male machismo thing of like you can't say something hurts your feelings you can't say like you're called a pussy if you're like something hurts. But like all the damage that people do, especially men, especially what we're seeing,

probably comes from being hurt and being too proud or like overly masculine to be like, yeah, that shit, I don't like the way that feels. You know what I mean? That one time you came out and all of a sudden you lost a ton of weight and people went nuts.

And you had to have been aware of that, right? I think my whole career, I made this zine that I hope people check out with A24. That's kind of about, it's called Inner Children. I interviewed everyone from like Q-Tip and DJ Premier, Mark Gonzalez, Kim Gordon, Raymond Pettibon, you know, tons of different people. Michael Ceraah my sister um and it basically is just about how like i think everyone has a snapshot of themselves no matter no matter what it is right mine is like i'm this 14 year old overweight kid who wants to fit in with skaters and and no matter what success i would achieve or how i looked whatever i think you carry that with you right yeah and i think and what i found was

everyone's was different and it existed in everybody. And it would be shit you would not even, you couldn't even comprehend if you looked at someone. You know what I mean? Like DJ Premieres or Q-Tips or Edie Falco. They're all different, you know? But my point is, man, that is my part.

That's why I never connected to sports in a big way because I didn't like being made fun of so much and comedy was hard for me because it fucking sucks like you don't want to be hurt all the time like then you feel like you have to be mean in response to be defensive right and i and i want to be nice like i literally just want to make movies and be a happy nice person and i felt like i was always on the defense or the attack in comedy because it's like people are just supposed to be mean to each other. And I'm too sensitive for it. You know what did a really nice job at hitting that is Funny People.

Yeah, that movie's cool. That movie's on a lot. Chug killed it. Yeah. The first, like, hour, ten minutes of that, just when it really dives into Sandler and the comedy scene and these young guys, it's

way, way up there. But it's anywhere, man. You've been on sports teams. You've worked in sports. Whether it's anything in life, I think we are getting to a point in a cool way, just as it is a hard way for certain things. It's a cool way of like, yeah, man, I'm going to be exactly who i am

you know like i may be this kid from super bad that you like want to be this certain thing and i love that movie and i love making that movie but i'm 34 years old and now i'm starting to make movies on my own and i'm not trying to have anyone tell me like who i'm ever going to be for the rest of my life you know what i mean i could have a lot easier time making this movie like a broad comedy which i love like my favorite movies like coming to America like or I love super bad like besides like Moneyball and Wolf of Wall Street super bad and this is the end or like my favorite movies I've ever acted in you know so to me it's just I really think it's cool if you're a young kid and you're listening to this I think it's cool that I'm like, just out here getting to be myself.

Like, I don't really feel like I have to be any other kind of thing. Even talking to you, I was intimidated to come in here because when I was on your show last time, I was in a different head space. No, we killed it last time. I know, but I still felt like

I'm talking to this like adult guy who has his own show and he's like this like sports guy and like blah, blah, blah blah and what if he says something that like i get offended by in my heart and then i like have to like get defensive you know like yeah you're it's insecurity you know and it's like as long as you know you're coming from the right place and you don't have to feel that or you can talk about shit you don't have to be insecure like that and i think it's a very freeing thing and i think making this movie

really helped me to get there i do think it's that times are changing though and I think it's a very freeing thing and I think making this movie really helped me to get there I do think it's that times are changing though and I think there was definitely a bully culture with the internet that you know you talk about like the gawker type blogs and the first five six years

of Twitter and it was a lot of like gotcha stuff and just people people being like unuscha stuff and just people, people being like unusually mean. And I think, you know, the last two years, given who, who not to get all political, but we had a president who's basically is a bully as part of his routine. I'll leave it at that. And I think the bullying stuff just seemed to resonate differently after that.

When you saw somebody who's in charge of the country, who's like, I'm just going to bully people every once in a while. I'm like, Oh shit. Yeah. And I wonder if that's shifted how people behave and act now, because I do think we're entering some sort of nicer era.

I really hope so. Just because I hope so. Just because no one wants – anyone who's being mean feels bad afterwards because they're like, shit, that came from a place of hurt. And no one wants someone to be mean to them, right? So it's like, I don't know. I definitely grew up in skating.

I grew up in comedy. I grew up in all the cultures that are like, kill or be killed. Yeah, right. Don't be a pussy. Don't, you know, blah, blah, blah. Like, and I don't, I can't survive living like that. You know what I mean? At the same time though, you were,

that whole crew that you had of all those young guys, like kind of, I don't know what the word is it, but like the kind of Apatow generation, whatever. Like that was pretty fortunate. Like some of the people you cross paths with were unusually talented fuck yeah i wasn't a good thing you guys were pulling no i'm saying you guys were all pulling for each other and it's yeah that seemed pretty rare for sure i mean dude i i've had the most charmed like walk through entertainment on the creative side and the because i I don't even know lessons I've learned, like,

like education I've got, whether it's from Judd or Seth and Evan, like people like that, or Bennett Miller or Spike, or it just kept going of, of really cool people to learn from. And for me, I don't know about you.

I see. I think you seem pretty studious cause you, where you love movies, the way you love sports. To me, it's like, it's just educational. Like you just, if you want it way you love movies, the way you love sports. To me, it's like, it's just educational. Like you just, if you want it, you get this,

you can devour knowledge of how to make the things you end up wanting to make. Do you think all the people were uniquely talented and just happened to be together or the fact that you were all together made everybody more talented? No, I think Judd just over and over again, like a lot of people, he's just a great talent scout. He's very talented himself and he's great at seeing talent and other people um you know with this movie a big part of making my first movies i wanted to work with non-actors or first-time actors because i was given that opportunity early on in life and like it's been so cool to like see

these kids become actors through making the movie and see them like approach it so ferociously. And so seriously, which I would say was the common thread. If you look at like me, Seth, Jason Siegel, all those people, you know,

like it was, we all were like hyped to get to learn and take it seriously. Right. You know, I definitely think as the years pass, it becomes more unique because like right now, there's no little generation of that.

When I did the podcast with Damon, we were talking about those. But there is though, like Gerard, Bo Burnham, and it's what's cool. It's like they're creators. You know what I mean? Like to me,

those kids inspired me. Like Donald Glover, like I don't know how, maybe he's my age. I don't know if he's probably younger than me because you're right that is kind of its own generation it is but like the multi-platform kind of donald was a huge inspiration to me like he got me off my ass so did damien chazelle like kind of people that were younger than me starting to create things i was like in other people's shit and complaining that like i wasn't able to like have my own voice

right right so it's like no put in four years and make a movie like get off your ass you know like if i can do it in my room so can you you know like i do find that shit inspirational donald was sick of playing like eighth banana for like you know no good parts for young black men. And then he creates a show that gives him a huge platform to have a voice, right? And for me, I'm not in that scenario and that's not my story. But at the same time, he inspired me to be like, yo, if you got something to say, go start your career.

Stop saying you want to be a filmmaker and go do it. We had Damien Chazelle a couple of days ago right on that couch. I don't know him, I never met him. He's only 33 we were trying to talk him into doing Fast and Furious 11 like just sell out completely

make something you know what we're in a world right now where he could just totally go do that yeah and no one would shit on him you know that's like a big thing

just take one check why not man just bang it out man come on dude do your version Fast 11 I view it very differently because of these kids

I've been working with too it's like 90s was all like if you you sold out once, right? You're done. You're dead. Yeah. Right? So these kids, I'm like, yeah, well, Mobb Deep never sold out.

And they're like, yeah, Mobb Deep lives in like one bedroom apartment. These kids are like, we don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? Like that's tight that Migos is on a song with Katy Perry. Like they don't have judgment like that. So for me, the way I view it is I view commercials as a way that now we live in a world where someone who is a good artist can do commercials and then make art. Or bands can sell their songs to a commercial. 20 years ago, I would take that personally. You would get shit on for doing that.

Yeah, you'd be like like what are you doing and for me I'd rather have Damien Chazelle be in a Samsung commercial or direct a Samsung commercial and get to make his art yeah then to make Fast and Furious 11 you know what I'm saying like for me I was always kidding myself that it was this middle ground and to me it's not like I work at A24 now and I spent 10 years at Sony. I was basically like Mickey Rooney. I was like the little like dancing boy over at Sony. And like, they're kind of like, you're trying to kid yourself that there are these like things that are based in art, but it's commerce. You know what I mean?

And A24 is a place that supports filmmakers, supports art, supports film. And to me, I'd rather be in like a commercial and then make a film that actually represents my taste you know have them be very black and white in that way right now the most the most interesting movie you made I thought um just career-wise was when you're moneyball because I wasn't expecting that and I think if you hadn't done that when you did it, maybe one more year, you're just typecast as the comedy guy.

And I don't know if you get out of it. I don't know if the audience accepts it at that point, but you did it early enough where it was like, oh, oh, so he's actually an actor. Okay, I get it. But I still do a drama now. And they're like, out of left field, Jonah Hill. And it's like, it works in my favor honestly like because it like always

seems to surprise people but to me if you- even now you've done like like I'll do Gus Van Zandt movie and then like that gets good reviews and they're like out of left field comes Jonah Hill in a drama and I'm like alright man cool but to me it

it's not a- like being funny is a part of who I am yeah and when I'm comfortable when I'm with my friends or I'm loose or I'm like with people and I'm happy I love being funny and when I felt I had to be funny all the time it made me dark and I didn't like the way that felt and I don't think I would have survived it you know what I mean so like to me it was just important to fight to have to not be in a box like even as a filmmaker it's like you're an actor oh you're gonna direct a movie or like you're a comedian you're gonna be in a drama oh you're an actor you're gonna make a movie oh you made this kind of movie you're gonna make this kind of movie it's like unfortunately that's a huge part of having a long and good career is the choices well but you know what about that with Damien it's like- Unfortunately, that's a huge part of having a long and good career is the choices.

Well, but you know what- We talked about that with Damien. It's like, have you thought about your next move? Like you're three for three right now. And he's like, yeah, I'd be lying if I hadn't. Like, do you study other directors in the course of what they've done? He's like, of course I do. Like, you have to.

It's chess. And it's also like, you can look at people's careers. You can literally like, if I want to look at Mike Nichols, who started as a comedian and was this amazing filmmaker his whole career, you can literally look at the choices they made at that time and see how they did certain things. Now, a lot of time it comes from the heart, which I want it to come from, no matter what I'm doing, acting, writing, directing.

But there are things that if I had done two more comedies at the wrong time, maybe I would have never gotten the chance to be in Wolf of Wall Street or Moneyball or something, you know, like, I don't know. But to me, I guess the way it feels is no one's sitting around thinking about me.

Everyone's busy with their own fucking lives. Like they don't care what I'm doing. They don't, they take one look at me and they pop back up in their life and they think whatever they think right yeah the way i put it is is like the best thing i ever heard in my life was true confidence is living in uncertainty right and i think that's what i struggle with the most i think a lot of people probably struggle with that is you get married you want make sure you and your spouse are in love forever you take a job you want to make sure you keep getting promoted

and you never get fired. You just want certainty. So for me, I'm this kid who comes out in super bad and I'm funny and I'm chubby, I have curly hair, and I'm that in your head. In the one second of your life you've ever thought about me, I'm that thing. And the second I'm not, it's kind of like that Boston thing.

Oh, what, you think you're fucking big time now it's like literally like david yeah like when i was listening to matt david interview he was like you guys are killing me with that it's kind of we've been doing that in the office for three weeks the boston people berating robert williams it's so funny you think you're better than me yeah and and that's cool like yo i get it people have way bigger shit in their lives to think about than like me or my career who I am or what I am or I get it but to me uh I just took me a long time to love myself enough to be confident in who I am as a person and for whatever reason I just refuse to be in one box I just like want to make the things I want to make because that makes me happy as a person. And I don't want to have to ever apologize for who I am. Yeah.

Let's talk about my bookie, whether you're an expert or a rookie, you should be betting at my bookie. If you're the kind of guy that likes to bet a little and win a lot, my bookie gives you the chance to create a big parlay, pick three teams to win. And if you hit all three, you'll turn a hundred into 600. You know what else it works for? The kind of girl who likes to bet a lot. The kind of woman that likes to bet a lot.

Whatever floats your boat, whoever you are, try MyBookie. There's so much to bet on. Playoff, baseball, hockey, primetime fights, and more. It's the one bet I know you'll be happy with all year. I recommend these guys. They've been in business for years. They've got great online reviews.

Their mobile site is easy to use MyBookie will still match your first deposit dollar for dollar but you've got to join now because they'll be pulling that offer soon log on to MyBookie right now double your money use promo code Bill Simmons

that's my name Bill Simmons and they'll match your first deposit 100% that's promo code Bill Simmons. And they'll match your first deposit 100%. That's promo code BILLSIMMONS. You play. You win. You get paid. And speaking of getting paid, the Duffel Bag Boys are back in town. One Shining podcast.

College basketball is heating up. And there is a little tour. Nephew Kyle, where are we going, the first three cities? The first three cities, we just booked my travel today, so I'm hyped about it. So the first one is going to be Columbus, and then we're going to Indiana, Bloomington, Indiana, and then we're going to Louisville, Kentucky.

So that's Friday, Saturday, Sunday. That's the first full weekend in November? Yeah. Yeah. Tickets still available. Chicago sold out. But I think there are a couple tickets left for those other cities. You can see Tate Frazier, Mark Titus, two men of the people. Titus will be in rare form in Columbus, I'm sure.

Titus will be in rare form in Columbus. There's going to be special guests. Two people who love college basketball who live and exist outside the bubbles of the East Coast and the West Coast they're men of the people but check that out if you want to if you want to buy tickets for any of those shows at one shining pod

is the Twitter feed we love this pod so much that Nephew Kyle we made him get a tattoo oh no we didn't make him do anything at all he just did it he showed up with a tattoo one day. Anyway, check it out at OneShinyPod if you're interested in seeing the fellas out on town.

All right, back to the pod. Quick nerdy directing stuff. What'd you learn from Scorsese? So much, man, so much. What was number one lesson? Because I know at that point, you're thinking about directing. So you're watching,

you're kind of soaking in shit he's doing. Number lesson I would say is like and I would do this with the kids in mid-90s all the time which is sometimes he'd be talking to me or telling me like this long story and I'd be like what does this have to do with anything yeah he was really talking to me about the scene we're about to shoot but he was just telling me a story from his life and I didn't realize till like way later he was talking to, he was telling me that story for a reason. And I did that a lot with the kids because you kind of got to hide the fact that you're making a movie from these kids, even though they became such good actors and they didn't improvise, even though I wanted them to. They wanted to memorize the script to become these

people. But if I gave them something too deliberately they'd do it too deliberately so he's trying to knock you out of no he's trying to give me the note without deliberately giving me the note so i'm not thinking about exactly how i'm going to deliver what he wants so he's telling me a story that expresses the same thought or idea without saying it to me so deliberately because if you it deliberately, then it's in your head that you're just rattling off his instructions for the scene. Take two steps left, take two steps. You know, it's like-

That's really interesting. It was amazing. And it really helped. It helped get these kids in a place where it felt like we're just talking, we're just shooting the shit. So you have like seven pounds of cocaine in front of you and he's like, let me tell you a story

about the Rolling Stones. When I lived with Robbie Robertson. Mick Jagger, he leaned forward too far and then just walks away. Essentially, but more, less literal about actions and more about like the way something feels, right? Yeah. So it's like, and I imagine that's like being a father, you know, I'm not a father yet. I have nephews, but like sometimes when I'm trying to talk to my nephews about something I won't you know let's say like their mom will hit me up like oh you know a kid was meeting him at school I won't say like I heard a kid was meeting you at school I'll say

like you know when I was in sixth grade like this kid did this kind of thing and it really bummed me out and that gets them talking about something right so it's like you don't put them on the spot you're sort of just opening up and letting them come to you with their problems. So you know how to parent. This is how to parent. I do this with my kids all the time. Yeah, and that's kind of what directing is. You can't bring up exactly what you want to find out.

You have to sneak around it. And they'll be embarrassed and they'll be whatever. And so the kid, directing kids is kind of the same way. It's like they get self-conscious, right? So you don't want to be like, hey, you're doing too much. You're touching your face too much in this scene, blah, blah it's like you got to be like i was making super bad and i remember i like i kept like wiping my brow with my hand and i remember like like afterwards like greg mottola was like a couple days like oh i wish i hadn't done it as much i

didn't listen to him but i wish i hadn't done it as much yeah oh cool and you just kind of get them thinking on their own wave quick quick aside does that make sense yeah no it totally makes sense just cause I didn't want to forget to say this the lead actor

in this movie Sonny Solchick yeah so he's really good at skating no just in general like he kind of draws you in

and initially he's just kind of dumb and happy but then there's this other side that comes out. Were you scared about not being able to find the right actor for that part?

Because I honestly don't know if the movie works as well, if that actor's not good. All the kids were the make or break, right? You almost had to go five for five. Yeah. If there's one weak link in there, you're fucked. Because first of all all Sonny's amazing he was 11 when we shot

and I'm 34 and I've never had to strap a movie to my back and like walk across the field like that you know he was 11 so he's truly a genius he's like a savant he's just this brilliant actor and he'd never done a movie before he'd done one movie but I found him at a skate park and I was like you ever think about acting

he's like man I was just in some fucking movie this this guy yorgos lathamos and i was like yorgos lathamos the guy did the lobster he's like yeah he's like killing of a sacred deer fucking nicole kimmons in it and shit no i saw that movie yeah he's amazing he's the little kid he's the younger kid oh i didn't even realize and so i called yorgos the director and i was like what's up with this kid sunny he's like he's like, he's a genius. Hire him. He's amazing. And he was really generous. And Sonny was just brilliant. He came in, did the scene where he yells at his mom, which is like one of the most gnarly

scenes. And everyone just like was quiet. You know, it wasn't like a kid actor. It was like, so I knew I was going to cast skaters and turn them into actors because that's the mistake everybody makes is you cast actors and try and have them fake being skateboarders, and it's always corny. Where'd you find the black kid that was the best skater out of all of them? Because I thought he was great.

I actually feel like he's going to be a star. He's, like, blowing up from the movie. He's going to be a thing, I think. It's really exciting, yeah. He's, like, the breakout of the movie. His name is Nickel Smith, and he rides for Supreme. Like, he's one of the best professional skateboarders. He had never acted, never thought about acting. And now he's the star of the movie. His name is Nickel Smith and he rides for Supreme. Like he's one of the best professional skateboarders. He had never acted, never thought about acting.

And now he's the star of Fast 11. Now he's by Damien Chazelle. He's in Damien Chazelle's Fast 11. He's replacing Vin Diesel. Yeah, he was really good. But Nickel is amazing. The same thing. It's like the harder part with like Lucas Hedges

and Katherine Watterson who are in the film, you know, the challenge of this is like, need to bring actors it's their movie it's the kids movie yeah so actors no matter how brilliant they are are actors they've been in a million things and it's like you're playing their game so wherever they are is where you go to you guys got to be in the same film they're not going up to your like style of acting you're going to their reality because these kids have an inability to bullshit. And so that brings real actors or multiple actors that have acted for their whole lives

to a more realistic place than they would ever have to go because usually the tone of a movie is just more elevated. But these kids were so special. And with Sonny, I knew I was going to cast a confident kid and reverse him to meekness at the beginning of the film because I knew I was going to cast a confident kid and reverse him to meekness at the

beginning of the film because I knew I couldn't cast a meek kid and have him fake confidence that's smart yeah that makes sense and he's like the smallest person you've ever seen in your entire life like he had exactly what I was looking for where he was like really young looking for his age but he was like 10 feet tall inside and the, the only challenge was his older brother's abusive play by Lucas Hedges was getting Lucas is this really sweet, sensitive guy. The only way to shoot those scenes for real and have them be as visceral as you want is,

you know, Sonny's a skateboard. He falls down 10 stairs every day. And I was like, are you down to just do it for real? And he's like, he's like, fuck.

Yeah. He was so high, but Lucas, he didn't want to do it. He he was too upset to hurt Sonny. And it was harder to get Lucas to hurt Sonny than for Sonny to want to do it. So you're like, Sonny, can you just insult Lucas until he gets mad?

I was just like, I don't know. Because the only reason I cast Lucas is because if you cast someone who reads as an abusive asshole in the older brother part, it's so stock 80s lame right like just mean older brother you end up like chet and weird science 100 that's literally what i would say all the time i was like we can't have chet and like weird science i love chet and weird science but it's a different film different film yeah um but i was like if you cast someone who's really

sensitive and big-hearted underneath like a veneer of abuse and anger you're going to really empathize with this person and that was important to me so what's next are you going to like direct more or are you going to be like go back and forth and direct some because you're clearly a director this movie was really good

I really enjoyed it I know you wouldn't say it if you didn't mean it. I always judge this shit by, did it stand out? Was it well done, obviously? But also, is it just memorable? Am I going to remember the experience of it? Was it like other things I've seen?

There was a bunch of different touches in it that were just different. And that made me think, oh, shit, Jonah's actually a director. That really means a lot to me. He can do this. Now watch, you're going gonna do some rom-com next completely sell out I'm directing Damien Chazelle in his first acting role

in Fast and Furious him and the rock Scarlett Johansson is too busy for love no I think I could until she meets Brad Pitt I could have made literally

a billion choices to make my first film easier and I didn't it's just like to me as I was saying I was trying to delineate I was trying to delineate,

I'm trying to delineate like how you pay the rent versus how you make things that matter to you because in our world, they don't really overlap that much anymore, you know?

Yeah. Back in the day, you look at like Mike Nichols was probably getting paid like mad money to direct or Barry Levinson was getting paid like lots of money

to direct like The Natural or something, you know? It's like not that I'm ever going to be like that but those are my heroes right so but the reality is the way the movie industry is going like damon and i we talked about in the pod about how the 15 to 70 million movie is basically going away and yeah you have to get super creative with how you make them and you know it has to be either a filmmaker who brings some cachet to them or you just have to moneyball it, no pun intended.

But it's just hard. He's right. But thank God for places like A24, man, because they support real filmmakers. I shot my movie on Super 16 in 4x3 aspect ratio. Yeah, it's the square format, right? Yeah. Because I thought that was just the screener they sent me,

and then I realized that was just the screener they sent me and then I realized that was probably how you intended it yeah it was it was deliberate and I love and I love that

you know they let me do stuff like that yeah you know and to me I don't know what's next I'm going to start writing I have my next movie I'm going to write

but I just want to make things that actually represent my taste and what I care about what I mean something to make things that actually represent my taste and what I care about, what I mean something to me. Well, how... Whether that's an actor, whether that's a director, whether that's a writer.

Did you graduate from Crossroads? I did, yeah. How many good things do you have to do to supplant Baron Davis, Austin Crozier, and Kate Hudson as the go-to Crossroads... No, I don't know. What else do you have to do? I don't think I have to.

Baron and Crochet have retired jerseys up in the gym. They should retire you holding a director's card or a cue card or something. Man, that would be amazing. I don't know. The one thing I will say is I was definitely a skater with blue hair and did a lot of drugs and I was

just like a very artsy kid, a really sensitive kid really kid who got in a lot of trouble and that school was cool man they celebrated like the things I was good at like writing, basically writing they celebrated that I could write

and that's pretty dope it's very untraditional I think my daughter wants to go there next year things I was good at, like writing, basically writing that they've celebrated that I could write. And that's pretty dope. You know, my, that's one of the very untraditional. I think my daughter wants to go there next year. That's why I brought up the thing. If you need a letter, bro,

let me, I might, I might have to hit you up on the letter. I'm the letter whisperer. LeBron is a crossroads parent. So that's, that's crazy. I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I don't know, man. I live in New York. I don't have kids. I look forward to the time when I have kids. It's a hard, it's a, if you're in entertainment, like New York down here, I live in New York. I don't have kids. I look forward to the time when I have kids. It's a hard, it's a, if you're in entertainment like you are. So you live in New York down here? I live in New York, yeah.

Yeah, I live in New York. Any reason? Yeah, basically like right before I started, as I was writing Mid90s actually is when I moved, when I started four years ago because. Because you grew up here and you were here like your whole childhood. I was here my whole life. Yo, like when you're here in LA in la right and you work in the entertainment business

um there's a lot of pressure to do bigger flashier things like you know you're around someone and they make you feel insecure because it's like what are you doing oh i'm writing a movie starring nikhil smith and sunny solchick for 824 for the next four years and they're like cool i'm directing transformers it's all good you know and it's like you know for me it like gets in you i'm i'm not i i i have to protect myself because i needed some space i need space to kind of understand what i really want to make and why i really want to make it and not to be impressive or to impress people or you know go to new york city everyone's just walking with their airpods on just silent robots passing it's a great place to ruminate on a film yeah but to ruminate on a film for four years it's a great place to go walk around and when i edit

like you know just cruise around the block it's like it's a great place and then also like a lot of the filmmakers i that are mentors of mine are people I really look up to live in New York, like the Coen brothers or Bennett Miller, Spike Jonze, Martin Scorsese. Bennett Miller did Moneyball, right? He did Moneyball. What'd you learn from him? So much, so much, man.

Him, Spike, and Gus Van Zandt signed my DGA certificate. So those are the three people I lean on a lot. And you realize films are made by committee. When they screen their films, I'm always a lot, you know, they're really, um, and you realize films are made by committee. Like when they screen their films, I'm always there like giving notes or on scripts. It's like films are made by community and you trust like your eight to 12 people. Yeah. You have people you go for it. I've been lucky enough, like, you know, not in any way of just, it's the truth. It's like, I've been one of those people for people for a long time. Yeah. And, and I finally felt like I had enough, a,

um, emotional maturity to lead people and be confident enough to have my own voice and not just try and bite other people's shit. So I waited until, you know, I'd been helping people with movies for a long time and I was really excited to just finally get to make my own. I always wanted to be one of the, you could come watch a cut of my next movie. Yeah, I was wanting to crack that group

where it's like, hey man, I'm screening. You're not in one either? You could come. I'd be honored to have you in my next one. That's the only one. You made a movie? No, no, he just texts me and he's like, should I break up with my girlfriend?

That's the only counsel I give. You're in the focus group of like relationship advice, essentially. Did you guys break up or no? It's a tough guy. I did. He doesn't believe me, but he's getting bad info. He's getting bad info.

He disappeared on Saturday, and we're unclear where he was. What happened? Yeah. That's the worst. I've been one of those where it's like your friends are all like, yeah, he's still seeing her. And you're like, no, not that. And I have girlfriends who are like, yeah, she's still seeing him.

You know, it's like, and you all, everyone in your life knows you shouldn't. And you, but you, it's a surprise party for one that everyone knows. I'm like, how'd you know?

They're like, dude, cause you're still miserable. Cause you're not smiling the same as you weren't for the past year. Cause you look sad and you have bags under your eyes. Cause you look dead inside. Well, good luck with this thanks man

I hope you do the whole award circuit and the whole thing you know what man it's cool I hope it makes money when does it come out it comes out Friday

mid 90s comes out Friday in LA and New York and then next Friday the 26th nationwide but truly when I say this like talking to you

and having you say the things you say about it or speak about the way you speak about it those are the kinds of things that you like take away from an experience like this i appreciate that and well you had me at wave of mutilation that was the pixies i just i just i mean he gets it he gets me what about the kanye sample where was that okay when he falls off the roof. It's in the trailer. The end of Black Slaves is the sample. We use the sample from the song that he used.

I should have written down all my thoughts on the music. Is there a Spotify playlist yet? Did somebody do it? We did the first official movie soundtrack Spotify playlist. I'm going to email you my thoughts. It's on there? I would love that. Yeah, and we did the first official movie soundtrack Spotify playlist. I'm going to email you my thoughts. So it's on there? I would love that. Yeah.

And we did the thing. And then I'm going to end up releasing the 200 song master ones that didn't make it into the movie, but just the kind of master mid-90s. It was so many. I couldn't keep track. A lot of needle drops. But with Mutilation, you actually wrote that one. That was like a minute and a half.

That was like a montage. Yeah. But you know what? The whole joy and for people. But you know what? Like the whole joy and for people and, and you know what? Everyone at the ringer for real, like Sean, everybody who I've,

I've like gotten the chance to hang out with and talk to you about this film. Like, well, we're kind of the audience for it. You are the audience. If the ringer likes this movie, it's a good thing because I mean,

I mean, you guys have been so supportive, but for real, like to me, I am 34. I hope to get to make more movies because the things i care about are things that are not when i was younger starting out in movies weren't celebrated in films like hip-hop like yeah the culture that i come from and that i love and so

for me the whole joy would just be to be to get to make more films be amazing it's all i mean this is a site where we debate the basketball scenes in Above the Rim for great movie soundtrack two three straight one of the OG great all time

is it regulators on that? I oh but I'll never Big Pimpin' never made it as like a major hit and I'll never understand it yeah I gotta rewatch it

oh yeah big there's a whole bunch of what's another classic one I mean that's the one that's like the classic hip hop one

oh Deep Cover was pretty big because that was when Dre and Snoop first were on a song Tupac's on it too yeah Tupac's on it but the Above the Rim Run

was I think one of the great hip hop soundtracks and that's what we were trying to do basically with this thing is like we were gonna sign

a record deal and put it out because it's like people love the soundtrack whenever someone sees the movie but we did what was cool was I made it on Spotify

when I was making the movie so we just did it with Spotify I was like people are gonna go and be like oh you can listen to the mid 90s soundtrack moment for moment

and Trent Raznor and Atticus Ross did the score also we should talk about that which is dope well that score was great so those guys they just they just go from movie to movie

and make great scores. And they're just like- I did not think we were going to get that. They never run out of this shit. We screened the movie for them and they were like, we don't have money. I was like, we don't have money. And they're like, we love the movie. We want to do it.

I was like, this is the coolest thing anyone's ever said to me. And my whole thing on them was like, my favorite score, my favorite modern score is the social network score. Yeah. Which in my opinion opinion which is their score and in my opinion it's about that movie and that score is about like coldness yeah and so my idea to them he's like what do you want and i was like i want to hear your perverse take on warmth and what they did ended up being really effective i still that's cool it's cool yeah you weren't in the social network right no but actually because you're talking about your Matt Damon thing.

Yeah. Low-key David Fincher, or high-key David Fincher, didn't want me in social network. I was up. It was between me and Justin Timberlake for that part. Oh. And David Fincher, this was, I guess, what, 12, 10 years ago? This is unbelievable information.

I wish we knew this when we did the rewatchables. I have cool ones like that. But Fincher, I've only met him once or twice. He was super nice. Fuck you, Fincher. No, no, no. Like, honestly, he's the man, obviously. But like, he was not having me.

Like, the studio wanted me, I think. And then Justin Timberlake was amazing in it. But that's the only one out of my whole career that I'm like, you know how like Damon was talking about, what was he talking about, Chris O'Donnell, or people that are kind of blowing up right before you? Yeah, what was the one he didn't get? Primal Fear.

Primal Fear, yeah. Primal Fear was, everyone in town went for it. My era, like my people like that, so it'd be, which has actually been kind of a cool time because it'd be Shia LaBeouf would get the part, get offered the part, just like Jews basically. So Shia LaBeouf would like get the part. Jesse Eisenberg would get it if he didn't if he turned it down and then me and paul dano would fight for the

scraps so like me and paul dano always have this great like camaraderie we're friends and like because it was like paul dano and i would fight for like the jesse eisenberg shia labouf scraps that they didn't want so like squid and the whale oh everybody went in on that everybody for me was um what was like that that project green light shia labouf movie oh yeah yeah shaker heights that was a big one like in a meal her she was like the indie darling then i wasn't obviously in that realm he was even but shia was the one like everyone was like dude if i could have shia labouf's career that's crazy and actually like turns out history was like to me he's like the coolest like he still

is epic you know he keeps us on our toes I bet you that movie he makes with Lucas Hedges that where it's him and Lucas Hedges about his life it's like something he just made I bet you that's gonna be a banger like I would keep my eye on him he's someone I think is a really good actor

did you audition for Little Miss Sunshine? I can't remember if I, I must have. I must have auditioned for Little Miss. That was like the era. Like it was like. What was another fork in the road that you didn't get? Oh, Girl Next Door. Oh, Girl Next Door.

What was, do wait, I have so many good ones. But Social Network was the one that I actually was like, years later was like, fuck, like I'm so bummed. You would have played it differently too than timberlake did right he because he played it more like big life of the party celebrity but that that's not actually what sean parker was like i think he like invented a version of him whatever he did it was great that movie's like it was cool that's like the best movie is like the that's like the best that's the movie i watch probably like on a loop like you can watch that movie

anytime we did the rewatchables and we decided that that was easily the best movie of the decade wow like all the

the rewatchability of it how good it was when it came out how original it was of course all the fucking the CGI that was three years

ahead of its time with Armie Hammer oh my god just the fact that that's the one you could watch anytime it's almost like goodfellas or something well goodfellas is on all the time and i keep watching it and it's the same thing it's like ah all right he's gonna beat up the guy across the street all right i'll stay i kind of go like uh uh casino scene is another good one

it's another like one and it doesn't get because of Goodfellas because they were like close together or something but Casino is so dope it's so good Goodfellas actually makes you feel like you did cocaine by the end of it it's like I'm just sweaty and jumpy

I mean like that I would definitely exhaust I was like sometimes like I would kind of push it to the limits with my goodfellas questions with scorsese of like how far can i go well i would just be like if like someone broke the seal i'd have like eight questions for that day but i wouldn't break the seal i'd kind of wait for someone else to break the seal what was your number one question oh my god so many questions. Mostly how they shot the scene. Obviously the one-er in the Copacabana.

I also was interested in how they shot the, you know, like, do you think I'm a clown? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's really simply shot and you can hear Scorsese laughing over it. Like he's just laughing so hard that you can like literally hear him laughing oh in the actual yeah like he's just like he's like I just couldn't stop laughing like when he likes something

he laughs so even if it's like dark and he likes it he laughs because he's just happy so I thought that was really I always found that really sweet and cool do you think De Niro when he was like no no over there it's a little more no no, no, no, no, no, no. You know what's so funny?

Do you think those guys were killing her or no? Were they going to? Yeah. Yeah, I think he was trying to get her. Or was she being overly scared and whatever? I mean, I guess it's up for interpretation, but my interpretation was that. I mean that he was trying to kill her, Kemp. You think he was?

I think he was. Yeah, me too, for sure. But I don't think it's true. But I'm in that he was trying to kill our camp you think he was I think he was yeah me too for sure but I don't think it's but I always do that like that's one of those gestures that you can't see at home

but like I always do that with my friends where I'm like no no no right there no no back back back it is a classic

well if we ever do the Goodfellas rewatchables we might have to drag you into it it's just such a great I love I mean like not even on your jock

just like I love the ringer like I oh thanks thanks i think you guys are doing such an amazing job and it's just uh things like that yeah they are it does feel like a generation i don't know it's kind of cool like i feel like i guess i'm getting of the age people are starting to make things like in your mid-30s or something like that right. And so it does feel kind of like people of my generation are starting to get to like author things. Yeah. And I think that's really cool. Thank you.

Well, I'm proud of you as well. So let's be proud of each other. Hell yeah. Thanks for having me. It's a great movie. Please go see it. Mid nineties out in theaters on Friday. Thanks for coming up.

Thanks again. This is great. All right. Cause we're back at my house late at night. I haven't had a chance to get my daughter in front of a microphone in more than a month. And people have been saying, where the hell is for realsies?

Well, she's here. She's not prepared. I'm springing this on her. But since the last time she was on for realsies, that's a dog barking. We're fine. Since the last time you were on for realsies, that's a dog barking. We're fine. Since the last time you were on for realsies,

your favorite movie ever came out. Yeah. A star is born. A star is born. Is this your number one? Yeah, for sure. Explain why.

Um, I would say a star is born is my number one movie right now because it includes everything that I'm looking for in a movie, like that kind of romance essence, as well as like the kind of fun, like musical edge of it. And a lead character who's handsome, but is self-destructive. Yeah. And Lady Gaga screaming and punching things and breaking things. How did you feel about, yeah, stop kicking the table. How did you feel about Lady Gaga's singing in this movie? I thought that even though she was playing a different character who wasn't herself, her singing kind of brought home that Lady Gaga essence.

And I like that because I really like her singing on like a regular basis. And I think that this country type of rock thing that she was doing really worked out for her voice. And I really liked it. What do you think the movie was trying to say about pop music and some of what you like? Because initially it starts out and she's singing from the heart and she does that acappella thing in the parking lot and then goes on stage with him for the duet and then her career

starts taking off but then as he starts losing kind of his influence on her and she becomes a pop star leading to the terrible setter in a live song do you think the movie was saying that pop music sucks or do you think the song she was singing in the movie happened to suck, but they didn't realize that the song sucked? I don't know if it's either of those assumptions. I kind of think that it was more of a situation where she was kind of, instead of following her heart and what she actually felt like she should be singing, what she felt like she loved to do.

And originally that was that kind of like rock edgy singing that she did the duet with. She kind of fell into what society wanted from her instead of what she actually wanted to be putting out there, which was like the pop music and what people were into instead of bringing back something that would have kind of launched her career and made her more original that was basically what one of my two choices were i didn't really hear your choice you just proved that you don't listen to me yeah but your your explanation was like kind of vague no i thought it was very concise actually the uh the best scene in that movie i actually thought the first 45 minutes or so were fantastic yeah really really really great and the best scene is when he pulled for the parking lot scene's good but that they released that in the show but the scene when he's singing and then he's like,

I'm going to pull you out there. And then he pulls her out and the way they did the camera and when they sang in the crowd, I thought that was one of the best seven minute scenes I could remember in a while. And it was a pretty flawed movie.

We both laughed. We were like, man, why was that so depressing down the stretch? And there were things we would have changed. But sometimes like a moment makes a movie or a scene makes a movie and i thought that that scene was so good it almost vindicated the whole movie and the reason i bring this up is eventually this is going to be available on amazon or apple or whatever or it's going to be on cable and i

predict you watch this movie like 130 times what's the over under um i definitely will watch it maybe more than 50 times after it comes out and it's like accessible for me to get but um i feel like the reason one of the reasons why I enjoyed the movie so much is because there was so much hype kind of leading up to it. The fact that it exceeded my expectation made it even more enjoyable for me. And I thought that because it exceeded my expectation, I almost was like kind of stunned by it because... You were stunned.

Ben was so stunned he fell asleep for like 20 minutes. Then rallied in time for one of the sadder stretches of the movie, shall we say. Yeah. Ben's one word or one sentence review when we left the theater was, that was sad. Completely accurate. If you did a movie review thing, it would just be these really short caveman one sentence. That was funny.

Ben liked. So Stars Born, how many scale of one to 10? What is that, like a 19? I could bring it up to like a 50. The other thing that's happened Since the last time you did For Realsies for us Is Netflix released the movie

What was it called? For All the Boys I Loved Before Didn't we That wasn't out when we last talked No you talked about how super excited you were for it Oh my god And we did the Instagram for it And that movie comes out. You've seen it, no exaggeration, what, seven times?

11. 11 times? 11 times. And you had high expectations. You'd read the book. Yeah. What really pushed it over the top was there were two guys that not only you liked but all your friends like and now you're in this whole instagram thing where you're following them

and there's memes and like screen grabs of the different guys and um you're just all in yeah i mean yeah yeah why are you embarrassed i'm not embarrassed because you completely hit it on the head like that's literally what's happening everyone by the way i stand by noah centineo with like my entire heart and so to all my friends like completely pro noah centineo and i don't care if anyone calls me basic i literally love him i he's awesome. So you're worried that there's been a little backlash because it's too easy to like know Centineo. And it kind of made me mad because I felt like I was one of the first people

who knew about the movie and like was super excited to see it. And now everyone likes it and it makes me feel basic for liking it. But I do really like it. And I felt like I was one of the first people to know about it so it felt original and now it kind of feels like well everyone likes it so so the last time you're in the pod you described what the movie was about and how it hit a lot of a lot of

your checklist things which include with you could tell people what was in the plot, but the checklist things that it hit go. Oh. It included a very dreamy character. It had that sense of a girl being desperate. Yeah. There was a list. There were letters. There wasn't a list this time, actually.

There were letters. There were letters that wasn't a list this time actually there were letters um there were letters that got that got sent out that got sent out and stolen yeah that got sent out and stolen you like when property gets stolen that wouldn't shouldn't be stolen but it's not like bad it's like a letter yeah i like that kind of like nervous like oh my god that actually happened type of feeling and i felt like larjean had that like a lot of it too did it bother you that the older sister in this movie was old enough to be the mom of the okay that that was like the one thing that really bugged me the entire movie the older sister did not look like the older sister she looked like the the mother of all the

of the children and it was kind of annoying because... Or the aunt. Yeah. Like I couldn't see past the fact that she was the sister because she talked as if she was a mom. She kind of had to take on the mom role considering that they no longer had a mom. But she was too old for the part, I feel.

Or at least looked it. This is really the summer for Zoey movies. Right as you premiered Four Reelsies on the pod. We had this, what's it called again? The Kissing Booth. We had Kissing Booth. What was the other one? Love, Simon.

No, and then what was this one we were just talking about? Oh, To All The Boys I Loved Before. And then A Star Is Born. And then I saw The Hate U Give Today. today what's that one it's really good you should see what's it called the hate you give i read the book netflix no oh theaters yeah everyone should go see that movie it is completely worth seeing it is is not a lighthearted movie, but it's really important to see it. Well, give us the one sentence synopsis.

I would say it's almost like a pride movie for this black movement that's happening right now. And it is surrounded about this girl who kind of feels like she's constantly code switching she lives in a not so nice neighborhood going to a school that is um predominantly white and living in a neighborhood that is predominantly black she feels like she's constantly code switching between personalities and it's almost like an identification movie but she's also dealing with this really sad

incident that happens to one of her best friends. Sounds interesting. Go see it. It's very, very good. Very well done. And read the book. And what TV shows have you been banging through? I don't know if I've watched any new ones.

Well, you've been busy. We should say for realsies has suffered because you're. I'm super busy. I have a lot of schoolwork and ISEE stuff and it's like it's it's a lot. But once I'm done with all of this, I will be back and posting. Yeah. And you're playing club soccer and you're on the volleyball thing. Yeah.

Yeah. But I do have book recommendation if oh yeah do that do that um i've read this book who is by jenny han the um the author of 12 boys i've loved before it is a book called the summer i turned pretty completely worth reading it's kind of it sounds exactly like the title and it is very good i just started the second book today and it's like you could should completely read it it's doesn't have that kind of desperation sense in it but it's just like very light-hearted and an easy read that i've read in like one night so yeah we went away last weekend and you read that book in one night yeah you

didn't hang out with me at all. You were watching baseball. What did you want me to do? Sit in there and like cheer on the Red Sox? Yeah, that would have been nice. We didn't need you. We made the World Series anyway. Yeah, so you read that

and then there was one other book I thought you read that you liked. That was The Hate Uve. Oh, and the other big thing that happened in our house was you won the Battle Royale on Fortnite before Ben did. Okay, so Ben has been a diehard Fortnite player since maybe season two. Yeah.

And he has been, Ben's tactic in Fortnite is to run to the people, run to where all the people go. And basically, it's like a suicide mission with Ben. Right. It's, it's, he's trying to take down as many people as possible.

Like I get, I love killing people and going to like very, um, very busy areas. But Ben goes there not being one of the best Fortnite players. He goes there and he like attempts to kill people with his pickaxe. Right. And it's just,

it's just, I don't even know what to say about it. Ben will get, he'll have all this loot and then he'll see people fighting. And instead of just be like, I'll let those dudes kill each other and I'll hang out over here and then sneak over there. He just wades into it.

Like, it's like in a war movie. We should talk about your Fortnite skills. I'm terrible. He's terrible. I'm really bad. He plays every single night. I don't play every single night.

Get out of here. He hasn't gotten better. I'm bad at it. I'm old. That's not an excuse for playing every single night. You should be good at it by now. I don't play every single night. Stop it.

Wait, what else what else do we have um is that it we're getting along really well lately yeah we're getting along very well I didn't really like you in August and September but now I feel

like your personality's come back I was stressed out what are you stressed out for? You're 13. You don't have a job. Yeah, but I have ISEE and school starting. Explain to the audience what the ISEE is. The ISEE is basically the placement test that you do to,

and schools use it to evaluate whether you'll be a good fit at their school or not. And I've been studying for it since may twice a week for two hours and it's super stressful so yeah i'm most proud that we're now almost at the end of october and you haven't done anything on social media that has angered me and forced me to take your phone or anything yeah i'm a good child good Good. No, no selfies that I haven't appreciated. Nope. Can't say that. The selfie culture.

That's probably another episode of for realsies. Oh, for sure. We need to get into that at some point. And then, and then that's it, I guess. Yeah. You're taking the ICs this weekend. Yeah. Wish me luck.

Oh, and you're going to Washington, D.C. Oh, I'm going to Washington, D.C. And hopefully we'll run into House on accident. You'll probably just see him eating. Knocking down all the restaurants, just eating all their food. God, do we cover everything for realsies? Is there anything? any other topic i think i think we're done i think so why don't you do more instagram posts from the four realsies account you did the four realsies it's i'm just like bad at this type of stuff i'm such a procrastinator and when i don't do something

like at the first instant that i have the chance to do it, I won't. So I have to get on to it and I promise I will be better right after this weekend when I'm done with my ISE. People like the Four Rizzos account. It's the number for R-E-A-L Z-E-E-S Yeah.

I'm pretty sure. Or S-E-E-Z. Yeah, S-E-E-Z. So go follow it if you want to hear my weekly updates on teen pop culture. All right. Congratulations. Thanks for coming on. You're welcome. Thanks to ZipRecruiter.com.

Don't forget to check out ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Jonah Hill. Thanks to the Boston Red Sox for making me very happy this week. Enjoy the weekend. I will talk to you on Sunday night with the cuz. Cuz it's out. Until then. I don't have feelings within On the wayside On the first side of the river

I said I don't have feelings within