The Bill Simmons Podcast - Kawhi vs. All-Timers, NBA Finals Narratives, Revisionist Trade History, and MORE Lakers Chaos With Ryen Russillo | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: May 29, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Toronto Raptors winning four consecutive games to win the Eastern Conference finals, Kawhi Leonard's enormous performance, what happened to the Bucks, and more (1:50). They talk NBA Finals subplots, MVP odds and narratives (1:02:55), answer mailbag questions, and address yet another situation coming from the Lakers' camp (1:45:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, brought to you by The Zone. Hey, watch a fight at a bar, pay a ton of money on a cover charge? I don't know, that doesn't make a lot of sense. What about watching the fight at home, paying a ton of money for a pay-per-view? Eh, not a lot of sense either. What about illegal streaming the fight to avoid paying for a cover charge pay-per-view? Get weird viruses on your computer? No, just get The Zone.

Get over 100 fight nights a year featuring big names like Canelo, Triple G, Daniel Jacobs, Cover charge pay-per-view? Get weird viruses on your computer? No. Just get The Zone. Get over 100 fight nights a year featuring big names like Canelo, Triple G, Daniel Jacobs, Anthony, Joshua, and more. Joshua fighting this week. He's fighting the destroyer Andy Ruiz Jr. at Madison Square Garden this weekend. Check that out. Subscribe to The Zone right now. Go to DAZN.com.

Also, we're brought to you by Heinz Mayonnaise. You may forget what happened three seasons ago on that show everybody's talking about. You'll never forget a delicious BLT made with unforgettably creamy Heinz Mayonnaise. Slather it onto a mouth-watering turkey club. Mix it into a luscious garlic aioli. Layer it onto a thick cheddar cheeseburger.

Hours later, because of the unforgettable creaminess, you'll be telling everyone with an earshot just how good it was. Try something new. Try Unforgettably Creamy Heinz Mayonnaise and the new Heinz Mashups Mayo Chip, Mayo Q, Mayo Must, and Crunch. We're also brought to you by the world's greatest website, TheRinger.com, as well as The Ringer Podcast Network and all the awesome podcasts we have coming up.

We have a giant, long NBA podcast with Ryan Russillo. the ringer.com as well as the ringer podcast network and all the awesome podcasts we have coming up. We have a giant long NBA podcast with Ryan Russillo, but first our friends from pro jam. All right, we're taping this on Tuesday mid-afternoon, West Coast time. Ryan Rosillo is here. Fresh off a hot weekend in the LA area. Only one playoff game all weekend for either sport where we had the Game 6 Raptors versus the Bucs. The Raptors prevailed.

All the Raptors fans then got mad that we didn't have an emergency podcast ready for them on Saturday night or Memorial Day weekend, even though I had already been on my podcast that Thursday saying, Hey, I'm not doing another podcast till Tuesday. So I'm sorry. Yet again, Toronto gets the shaft. I thought we were going to start the first half hour or so just doing are the Celtics or is Boston a Kyrie away from a Boston slam? How does Boston become the next Toronto? Yeah.

With the Bs looking impressive in game one and they just start thinking of Kyrie and what he did to the Celtics team. We could be that close to a Boston slam. So I'd like to discuss that. Well, so here's what we have on the docket. I want to talk about Kawhi. I want to talk about what the hell happened in Milwaukee. I want to do a finals preview in a couple different ways.

And then we got to talk about that. Just yet another crazy Lakers story. Neither of us really want to talk about the Lakers at this point, but our producers are telling us, look, do it at the top of the hour. Just hit the Lakers. No, but it's just so weird. We have thoughts on it. And then we're going to do some mailbacks. So let's start with Kawhi. I am passionate about this, as are you. There is now a Kawhi trade revisionist history thing where everybody was the biggest moron ever because they didn't get Kawhi a year ago last summer. And I've been watching it amused because this is what we do with takes and we get

reactionary and stuff. I still think it would have been insane for the Celtics to trade Tatum and the Kings pick for Kawhi. I think it would have been insane for the Sixers to trade all their assets for Kawhi when he had played nine games the year before and everybody thought he was going to an LA team a year later. So you're getting one year of a guy who's hurt and you just don't know. People are forgetting the percentages of that trade that either it's a huge success or it's a massive failure. The Raptors didn't care because they want to blow up their team. They took the risk. Why do people forget what the stakes were at the time when people were looking at Kawhi? Well, yeah, I i could add to it i think people forgot how good kawaii was too

like as he goes through this run it's like man this guy's really good you go wait a minute where where have you guys been yeah like he's he's one of the few you know he keeps jumping from like three to five i think for toronto specifically the revisionist history thing that bothers me it's like well it worked well no no no no you just said it they had to they were in that very rare group of teams that had to just do something different yes and so for them to get off of DeRozan they don't really give up a ton they get the Danny Green piece back they go we're going to come back and look at this differently because guess what we're not good we're not good as a playoff team right now it's another embarrassing

loss to Cleveland so for them taking the one-year with Kawhi, I thought it was the right move even before any of this stuff happened. You and I both really liked the trade for them when they made it. It was like, this is smart. It's a reset. They get off the DeRozan contract. They can't come back with DeRozan and Lowry again. This is a one year, move the chips in, 25 to 40% chance maybe you talk Kawhi into staying. And if it doesn't work out, you blow it up, you start over. And I wasn't really worried about the only nine games thing because just everything I'd heard was that, I think that had to do as much with Kawhi,

you know, deciding like, I am absolutely shutting this thing down. I just don't like when guys miss seasons. It makes me nervous. And the history of the league says that it's usually not a good sign when somebody misses a season. But we can both agree that it didn't look like he missed a beat whatsoever this year. Didn't.

I thought the first 20 games, he looked slow to me, but was still really effective because he's such a smart basketball player. And then there was, you could feel the athleticism come back as you went along and the load management thing worked. And look, think about his game six in that game. I'm like, oh no, like he's going to be, I don't know that I've ever seen a player play as well who seems to be impaired some way.

Like because he's not this explosive, even though he can do all those things, just his style where he kind of slows you to death sometimes. Like it's clear that he was hurting a bit. Then you look at the final numbers and what he does in the fourth quarter. You're like, okay, so we're good to go. So yeah, we're-

Yeah, when somebody can do that when they're compromised, that's really crazy. So I look at this whole who screwed up last year. I would actually have the, if you're going to really say somebody screwed up, here was this rare chance to get somebody who had a chance to be a top three or four guy. You could have had him, and everybody just looked at each other. It would seem like the Lakers, on paper, were the team that should have really gone after him. But then everybody said, Popovich, there's no way he was trading with the Lakers. This is the one thing he was definitely not doing.

I don't feel like the Clippers had enough. The Celtics were not, I don't think, after coming out of the playoffs last year and how good everybody felt about the nucleus and all the assets, I just don't think they were going to risk it on somebody who might leave in a year and who might be hurt.

It was too risky for them. Ainge, even though he'll do some stuff, right? Because he's never afraid. The way he's described is that Ainge doesn't have to worry about his job, right? Because he's never afraid. The way he's described is that Ainge doesn't have to worry about his job. But he wouldn't trade for Paul George when it was only a year. He did it for Kyrie even though it was only two. They allege that they would have.

That they thought they had him draft night and that's why a couple. And then all of a sudden the deal got pulled. Oh, I always thought that the Jimmy one was the one that was like close. One of them. Who knows. Oh, I always thought that the Jimmy one was the one that was like, one of them. Who knows? Regardless, I think I just, I don't know what to do now with the one year guys.

Okay. Because I think when you grow up with it going, I don't care who the guy is. I can't, I just can't give you assets for this guy thinking that he's gone, but I don't know if the Paul George thing makes people change their minds. I don't know what this run means for Kawhi's decision. I'm a mother camp that just,

I feel like these guys have a lean, like even though climbing comes out and talks about Durant, he's like, he hasn't made up his mind yet. Okay. Well maybe he hasn't made up his mind, but in his head, he must know pretty close to like which direction he's going.

So I don't like, are the Lakers, if they didn't include Brandon Ingram. Yeah. Now it looks bad, but was Kawhi going to stay? I don't think San are the Lakers, if they didn't include Brandon Ingram, yeah, now it looks bad. But was Kawhi going to stay? I don't think San Antonio was trading him there. And I think for Boston, it clearly would have been,

I think Tatum was off limits after last summer just because of how he looked. Jalen Brown, something else. If you're the Celts and you don't know if Kawhi's staying and it's a one and done and you trade assets and he gets hurt again or you lose in round two and now he's gone. I think that's, I just think that's personally too risky.

If you're the actual GM making that call, it's, you don't want the possible repercussions of it not working out outweigh the possible it might work out. I think Philly is the one that I look at and I was looking at last summer like, man, if they can figure out how to get Kawhi and keep Simmons in a bead, that seems like the dangerous one, right? Because then you have those three together, you make a run for a year, you have all these extra assets anyway.

But even with them, they're looking at the long haul, and somebody being one and done is really intimidating. Toronto didn't care because they wanted out. They wanted out of the team they had. Yeah, that's not the same case for everybody else. Boston didn't want to necessarily change it. I mean, the Boston thing is so easy to look at now, but think about what they had going into the year. Like, okay, this is going to be great.

It's great. And then it wasn't. Philly, I don't know if the rest of those assets would have been enough. Well, Fultz had real trade value last year. So you have the Fultz. You have, you got that Miami pick. Last summer?

Yeah, Fultz still had trade value. Like they weren't trading him last summer. Remember, they were still trying to, they were still saying he was untradeable. He's going to come back. The other pieces. They had Sarge still. They had Covington. I always felt like they had the kind of the most to give if they wanted to do it.

But it's down the flip side of this. I think it's one of the great trades. I really think it goes down now, regardless of how this works out, even if he leaves. What if Portland had traded CJ McCollum for him? Are you just making CJ mad? CJ's like, fuck these guys! Yet again, I'm in another trade! I think it's one of the great trades, though.

They blow up this team that was never going to make the finals the way it was presently constituted. They get this Kawhi thing. They still have a puncher's chance of signing him. Who knows? I don't think he's going to resign. And they get this amazing year out of it.

I can't think of a trade that's worked out better for a short-term, put-your-hands-together, hope-it's-going-to-work-out. This was all the best-case scenario of a trade that's worked out better for a short-term, put your hands together, hope it's going to work out. This was all the best case scenario of the trade. Let's see. I mean, if we want to do this. Like, Mikael Parrish, to me, is still probably the greatest trade ever, where they turned the number one pick into two,

just, you know, into an iconic big three. And Mikael, just getting Mikael alone, the guy they wanted anyway, that's still, to me,hail alone, the guy they wanted anyway, that's still, to me, I think, from a big picture. But there's been a lot of great trades. Barkley, Phoenix. That was one of those where it didn't seem fair when they made it. It was like, whoa.

No, it was bad. It was like, really? He wanted out, but it immediately worked. I mean, he's rejuvenated. That Phoenix team was pretty good. I remember Detroit getting Rashid when he got traded to Atlanta for a couple days

and then the Pistons were like, we'll take him. And everybody kind of looked at each other like, what? You're going to put Rashid on that team?

But it worked. It's scary. No, no, I'm saying as a basketball fan, I was like, oh no. Yeah, I remember Boston getting ripped for that. Be like, why would you

help facilitate this deal? It's like, well, you know, whatever. They're like, we're not competing for Moses Malone, oh, no. Yeah, I remember Boston getting ripped for that. Be like, why would you help facilitate this deal? It's like, well, you know, whatever. They're like, we're not competing for Moses Malone, Houston, Philadelphia. Right. He was basically signing as a free agent. So I think they facilitated it. There's some great non-trades. There was almost, the Lakers almost traded James Worthy in the 80s,

and they didn't. You can go through all those. But for this one, just for what Toronto's objective was and then how it unfolded is about as successful as you can do in a 12-month span. Where it's like, hey, if we do this and he can stay healthy and he gets back to where he was and maybe even goes up a level and then we put him in our universe and he sees how excited the fans are and we keep winning like this might work and now messiah looks like a jedi as usual think about this too think about how

quickly this changed after game two yeah where it was can milwaukee be golden state like are they gonna have durant back because that's the only way Golden State can beat Milwaukee. And look at Giannis and the coronation of this whole thing. They just lost four straight games. They were, Milwaukee was 8.5 point favorites in game five. So when you say this flipped fast, this flipped in 72 hours. Even game four, I thought Milwaukee was going to win game four. We watched that one together

and they didn't look good and both of us, we went on the pot after and we were like, that was a little concerning. Not really sure what's going on here, but I still thought they, at home, it was going to click. They just couldn't figure it out and I thought their coach, do you want to do this

now? Yeah, I think a transition's alright. And then we can do the coach yeah the i don't know what coach bud was doing bucks twitter's not happy with coach bud rough summer for coach bud ahead the the resting yannis like he was uh the second line center on the stanley yeah we're up with the hockey subs because then people on twitter were actually trying to debate like is there some sort of science that he knows? I'm all for it. Like, let me know. Let me know what we're doing now. But he was getting cute with that.

I like the science of just playing my best guy as much as possible in a must-win game. I don't know. Yeah, that's, I don't know. I have some scientists in a lab working on that theory. I think it works. Maybe play 45, 46 minutes. I thought he was going to play 48.

One of the constants, though, of this whole thing, even when they were down 2-0, I go, I think Toronto's a good team, so I'm not off of this yet. This Milwaukee thing seems a little overwhelming, but all of it was new to me that I couldn't really separate any of these teams. I just thought those top three teams were better. Clearly, the Boston thing, I think you and I could see the problems that they had the whole time. But when I'm watching Milwaukee try to close one of these up, I think other guys, you could see Milwaukee being like,

well, what are we supposed to do here? And Brogdon would have moments where he would hit some big shots and was like, hey, I'm good. I'm good to go. Bledsoe wasn't going to be trusted. They tried the smaller lineup. They didn't seem to do much with Brook Lopez

unless he was like an outlet on a busted up half court play. That seemed, I noticed, especially in the fourth quarter, they actually exploited a couple of mismatches late. Like all of a sudden Lopez had somebody switch on him and he actually took the guy down and scored in the low post a couple of times.

That was, I thought, their biggest mistake in this series. That there were ways to get Fred Van Vliet on Lopez and get somebody smaller on Giannis, try to post him up. I think Giannis is, the guy's going to win the MVP. He's still kind of a work in progress in a lot of ways. And I just never felt like he was the kind of shot maker that once you took away the middle

and you put the guys in front of him, that team really relied on those other guys hitting shots. That was what made me nervous about them all year. They finally kind of broke me down and won me over by the time the playoffs rolled around. But they were just relying on all these dudes that I just didn't know if I trusted in a playoff series. And then you look at Toronto, Danny Green was terrible. Abaka was up and down. Kawhi was transcendent. Gasol had moments, but guys have just been in a lot of playoff games. And I think there's something to that, which is, I really do feel like playoff experience matters, especially when you're down 15 in a game six. That team had a calmness to them

that I thought really served them well. Yeah, the Gasol three, but he hadn't taken a shot in forever. Abaka had a couple moments again, and he was huge in the last round. But I thought he was really up and down. But in that game, I thought he made some plays. And then, you know, the random fucking Fred Van Vliet. That's how you win a playoff series, is you have the dude who's done nothing for three rounds. And all of a sudden, he's, what was he, 14 for 17 or something? It was insane.

I mean, he didn't miss any shots. He was a heat check. That's what he was last year. Yeah, I think it's kind of what this series is going to be. Like Giannis had to be at another level for him to get past the fact that everyone around him was pretty inconsistent. And then Kawhi was lucky enough to have, there was a couple of Baca games.

And then, yeah, the Van Vliet thing, actually, I mean, that's really the moral of this whole story. Like, are you going to have a guard come in and not miss any threes for two games? Okay, done. Like, that'll help. And if Milwaukee, if Brogdon had done that for Milwaukee, they'd probably win the series.

Yeah. So I don't feel like Milwaukee is far off. It just feels like, you know, Giannis saying- No, let's have that conversation. Because it sounds like they're bringing everybody back. I kind of do feel like they're a little far off after what we just witnessed because I still think you need the,

you saw in those games, you need the dude who's like, I got this. Yeah, and that's not Middleton. It's not. It's definitely not Middleton. I'm not sure it's Giannis. So who is it? I'm not ready to say that about Giannis.

I'm not ready to start going ahead. Oh, I'm saying two, three years from now maybe, but what's going to be drastically different next year? Well say that about Giannis. I'm not ready to start going ahead. Oh, I'm saying two, three years from now, maybe. But what's going to be drastically different next year? Well, that's the problem. So if you look at the sheet and how everything plays out for these guys, you already know what's going to happen. They're going to bring everybody back because that's kind of their only option. Unless there's some trade that manifests itself that we're not even thinking about

or they don't even know about yet. But it's just whenever you look at teams and how they do this stuff all right we already did the blood so number we've got george hill still that awesome contract he's at like i thought you could buy that one out next year now is he back i think he's back oh man so you're paying 36 million for bloodstone hill next year um no no no no it's not fully guaranteed. Yeah, I think they can buy that one out. All right. But Bledsoe's in for like 17, 18.

I didn't even think that contract was that bad when they did it, but then you see him go to the playoffs. But the reason they're going to bring everybody, it's the same thing

as like if Golden State ends up losing Durant. It's like, well, you can't just replace him. You're not going to replace him with that money. So you can't say, hey, we don't think

Middleton's really that guy. Let's find that. Okay, well, which really good number two is going to present himself for you guys. But see that this is what worries me about this. This is the same situation. The Cavs were in the last three to four years with LeBron the first time where they kind of locked themselves into this expensive roster because, well, we got to get somebody to play with them. And then it's like, well, Larry Hughes. And then it's like, well, we should trade for Jamison. And then-

Ben Wallace. Hey, we'll build a Ben Wallace. Well, that didn't work. So what if we get Ben Wallace? Drew Gooden. Drew Gooden, paying El Gosskis. And then you're locking all these dudes. Well, LeBron likes these guys. These are his guys. Mo Williams. Oh yeah, we got to pay Mo Williams. And you just end up stuck with this team where you don't have the true number two guy. And I think the one thing we learned from that series, I really like Chris Middleton.

He kills the Celtics for some reason, but you can take him out of a series. You can limit what he does. They still need that. Ironically, Conley would have been the perfect, the Bledsoe extension kind of kills it for them, but somebody like Conley, they need it in that series really badly. I don't know. I don't know what they're going to look around.

They're going to see what's available to them. And even with all these names, maybe this is what makes this thing crazy this summer. But realistically, Milwaukee will go, okay, what do we have to pay Middleton? All right, well, that's what we have to pay him because he's better. He's better than trying to figure out a way to change this thing.

I got a great email from a reader, from a listener in Iceland. If I don't pronounce your name correctly, please don't blame me, but it was Horror Unsteinsson. I think that was how you pronounce it. That sounds right, yeah. He was basically like,

we don't talk enough about the age of superstars and titles. So his point was, Larry Bird in 1981 and Tim Duncan in 1999 are the only players who won the championship as the best player on their team under the age of 27 unless they were playing with another superstar. And I was like, that doesn't sound right. And then he actually listed everybody. And you just go through, Bird was 25 in 1981. He was the best guy in that team. But then you go through all the other ones

and everybody is, he's right. Everybody was 27, 28 years or older. And Wade in 2006, he won when he was 24, but that team still had Shaq. Yeah, that was the first one I was thinking of. Duncan won in 99, but he still had David Robinson. LeBron didn't win until he was 28. He had Wade with him. Durant didn't win until he was 29. Curry was 27.

Shaq's first one was 28. Jordan didn't win until he was 28. Isaiah was 28. Magic was 28 when he was officially the best guy in the team. Moses was 28 in 1983 going down the line. Is that a coincidence or is that something more? That actually feels like that might be something that we should think about a little more,

that people aren't really finished products as basketball players until they're 27, 28 anyway. So to expect someone like Giannis to win the title with no other guy when he's 25, maybe that was way more unrealistic than maybe I was giving him credit for. Now, there could be part of that. It's good.

It's really good, first of all. But is it also because whenever that player who ends up getting into that neighborhood of NBA players, whenever they're young, their whole team probably isn't going to be that good because they're going to be a high draft pick on a bad team anyway. So, um,

I mean, that's why Zion's at such an interesting spot if they can keep everybody because Zion could be the 1999 Duncan of that list where three years from now because, because he's got Davis with them, you know, Davis will probably be the best guy on the team. But so, yeah, uh, I think, I mean, because he's got Davis with him. Davis will probably be the best guy on the team.

So yeah, I think... I mean, do you regret liking Giannis too much? I'm confused. No, I don't regret it. I'm a little thrown off the way you're talking about Giannis the last couple minutes. My fear... I wasn't even trying to be funny. I don't know.

My fear with this Bucks team was like, if this really gets to nut crunch time, who's the guy? Who's going to create shots for them? Who's going to make shots for them when they really need baskets? And from what I saw from Giannis, he didn't seem like that type of guy yet, but they had made it work all year. And this goes back to our regular season versus the playoffs thing.

I think what they did is yet another team that the regular season is just better for how they do stuff. In the playoffs, when you see it over and over again, I thought their half-court offense, especially in game six, I couldn't believe they were winning by 15. The shots they were getting were fucking awful. I mean, they had 25 bad possessions in that game. Toronto's getting good shots. They stopped scoring and Toronto went up like seven. I'd be like, okay, this is finally happening now. Now there's another part of this too,

where like if Giannis didn't just stop making free throws, which is another scary thing altogether, because once you start thinking about it and you're in a playoff spot, so that means just he's mentally. It felt a little Shaq early 2000s-ish. But it's funny how many great players have gone through that, because I think LeBron had his stretches with free throws. Remember?

Yeah. Remember he stopped taking the technical? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of these guys do have them, but he's definitely not lights out with it. But I don't know why they weren't posting them up more. I just don't know what the experimentation... It left me lacking. The Kawhi

numbers on him defensively were ridiculous. They're out of control. Haverstow did a good job. I love that stuff. Or Goldsberry, one of those guys was on Twitter with all the metrics of the possessions when Kawhi guards LeBron with their offensive rating was, it was like, he was just getting demolished. But I think Kawhi, as that series went on, was a little compromised and couldn't guard him all the time like that. No, and even though the numbers weren't his favorite for Siakam, there were just a lot of positions where I felt like Siakam challenged him and made it at least something he had to think about because body-wise, he was able to move with him. And I'm not saying the same size as Giannis, but he was close in some of that stuff.

But the Kawhi numbers were off the charts against him. Wait, so to put a bow on this, you think what needs to happen if Milwaukee's just bringing everybody back, how do they win the title next year? What's the move? The move, what you're saying, and I don't know if I disagree with you either because I think this is what they're going to do and maybe it's their move, is Giannis has to go up a level as a shot maker. The thing with Kawhi, it's interesting. He didn't have a lot of assists in the playoffs. He's a creator, but not really. He's kind of a self-creator. There's some guys like Dur old school 80s 90s you know that Jordan era kind of I got this guys get out of the way and I don't know if Giannis will ever be that guy I feel like he's more in that you know he's gonna hit every part of the box score but he's not one of those I'm

gonna shoot 46 shots in a deciding game seven against Philly type of guys I'm just not ready to like reclassify him that way when it felt like that's exactly who he was in some of the stuff he was doing in these earlier playoff games. What does he add offensively? His shot actually started looking better. I mean, all I'm going to say is the obvious stuff.

Like, oh, develop more perimeter, you know, this kind of stuff. But his shot looked better. I mean, that's all the Simmons stuff that we do when people scream and yell and be like, at least Giannis was taking a couple. And now guess what? It looks comfortable.

He's more comfortable with it. I feel like the low post is where he could, has the most area to improve. If he can, if you get a little bit stronger where he can hold off basically anybody and that Dr. J movie ads where he swoops in the middle with the right hand off the left block. If he can just become like that crossed with

facing the basket. But my point is, I don't think that's next year. I think that's two, three years from now. I don't think in 12 months he has those things. But I think what we learned in this series is if the guys outside aren't hitting those shots, then there's no room for him to even navigate that stuff.

So I like, there was one transition play. It was in game five. It was game, no, no, no. It was a game. I think it was game five. And he had three people

in front of him. Three people in front of him. Yeah. And he made the layup. Right. And if you had done a freeze front of him. Three people in front of him. Yeah. And he made the layup. Right. And if you had done a freeze frame of where the play started with him with the ball in his hands and where the defense was aligned, you'd be like, no, no way. Like he passes it or it's a turnover. And he made this incredible layup.

And even though we can see that and go, you need to do that all the time. I think the beauty of playing him a bunch of times in a row and i'm loving this regular season versus the playoffs thing because look at some of the metrics like milwaukee dominated all the metrics all year we kept raving about houston's metrics when you looked at boston stuff in the top six or seven you'd look at paper and go that that's a really good team they had a good season and now we're learning that this stuff isn't translating as much now so i don't i don't know if it's just going to be yannis learning another move or extending his shot but you can see like there's a difference between the way kawaii you have to deal with kawaii and

the way you have to deal with yannis because kawaii with that approach like he's in a weird way that there's some similarities there and that you look at kawi and go, look at how he developed and what he became. And that's not even what you thought was to be close to what he ended up being. Yeah, and very similar, like these kind of pseudo-aliens that decided to start playing basketball and just figured stuff out on the fly. He was 12 when he started. Was he? Giannis, yeah. Oh, yeah. was he? Giannis yeah oh yeah I think some guys just kind of

instinctively have that mode like since age 8 they were just scoring buckets you know like somebody like Durant I look at that dude like I promise you that guy was always scoring 6 in some you know rec league game he just had 38

and that's the part Kawhi has figured out how to add that to his game where he is now like when you watch him you wouldn't know that he wasn't a scorer five years ago right it seems like he's a scorer because i was i was doing this on one of the other pods because i was going through like i with kawaii's success and yannis's success i was starting to hear this whole like well you, if GMs did their jobs better, you wouldn't have these guys down there. And to me, that's just so unfair. If you watch Kawhi in college, you didn't think it would be this. And if you watch the video,

the video that I had of Giannis, I didn't know what to make of it. I was just like, what? What is this guy? And then by the way, he grew a bunch of inches. And he put on 50 pounds. And he clearly gets it from that personality standpoint. But it was this argument somehow becoming that maybe you don't need top draft picks on your rosters because of Kawhi's roster, because of Giannis and that whole team. And Curry. I'm like, this is a fluke. It's just a fluke. And the analogy I use is like, if you told your dad after a semester of college, you hey steve jobs ever heard of him he dropped out i'm out you know i'm not doing

this going to college and what we just saw in the eastern conference finals is a rarity and it's not by design it's two superstars that are picked in the middle of the first round because of their oddity going into the pros and the rest of the rosters around them. So I don't know. I'm going to tell you one more oddity, but hold on. We're going to take a quick break. Let's take a break to talk about Home Depot.

You already trust Home Depot for stud, sheetrock, electrical, everything to build your house. Now make that house your home by shopping thousands of decor pieces that suit your taste. From sofas to area rugs to that fall floral you've been admiring, the Home Depot has all the pieces you need to create your dream space from start to finish. And the best part,

you get free and flexible delivery plus no hassle returns on everyday essentials and more. Find exactly what you're looking for at homedepot.com slash decor. Your perfect home is waiting for you. It's just a click away for a limited time. save even more on the styles you love. Use code BSHomedepot at checkout, homedepot.com slash decor, code BSHomedepot at checkout. Now there's more kinds of doing at the Home Depot, valid on select items only, free delivery on select items, $45 or more. Visit homedepot.com for more information. So here's the other thing about this. I think Philly should have probably been in the finals. The NBA finals.

Yeah. I think they had the most talent in the East and I don't know. I always use the computer simulation thing. Like just, all right, if we played this 20 times, what would happen? I think Philly makes the finals in at least six or seven of those. And then you go back and you think like all the weird shit that happened with Embiid in round two

and like just really fluky stuff that knocked them out of a couple games that I don't think was typical. And how hard it was for Toronto to score on them in that last game. And it was basically like Kawhi and they get this random Serge Ibaka makes some shots, but Kawhi takes 40 plus shots. And I'm just not sure Toronto should have won. And if I was a Sixers fan watching this series, I would have been losing my mind. Whereas like, wow, we had so much talent. We had all of these chances to add to our bench and turn faults into something and the tobias harris trade like what were the other directions we could have gone and this was the team we ended up with

and we still almost beat them and we lost to a shot that hit the rim four times and went in like i would just be going nuts it's like how do we not beat this team as much as it would bum me out and you're right i would also think okay chances quiet back, feels like less than 50-50. True, we're in the driver's seat. Milwaukee's probably bringing the same group back unless, again, some trade manifests itself out of nowhere where it's some other stud who wants to go to Milwaukee and just play with Giannis. And that's the only way, that's the only lever. You know what I mean?

Somebody's going to have to tell me this a little more plugged in how that's all going to play out. So, yeah, if you're Philly and Boston's a mess, you should feel good. Boston's a mess. And Boston looks like they might've missed their window. I actually think if you gave me the percentages of what percent do I think a rebuild is possible versus what percent do I think they go all in and try to win the title next year, I think a rebuild is actually a little more possible. Not a rebuild, but more like a, ah, fuck it, we took our swing. We have these young guys.

You're talking about Boston. Yeah, we're going to get cap space in a year. Let's try it. I actually think that's a little more realistic than them just saying, ah, here's everything for Davis, and we hope he stays. Philly, I think, is more positioned

to win the East next year if they can figure out their weird team. Yeah, I think a lot of that's, Philly, I think, is more positioned to win the East next year if they can figure out their weird team. Yeah, I think a lot of that's, you know, Brett coming back, which surprised everybody. I mean, that might help the other teams. It might have a lot to do with the extension that he was given before this group brought him in. Because this group that bought a team, they're all billionaires. They bought a team for like 280. That's worth 2 billion. Definitely need to cut costs on the extension. Save 3 million bucks, bring the coach back. I would love to hear some of these off the

record guys try to pretend that it was anything that was their vision. Because if you made that kind of investment in something and turn it around that quickly, you couldn't help but just pat yourself on the back the whole time when really it was ESPN giving you a huge NBA rights deal, TV rights deal. Well, it was just a complete fluke, the timing of it. When the team became available and what was happening in the league at the time and the way the attendance, things were crumbling, but nobody realized that the streaming money was coming. And it really did seem like they had eight teams for sale that season.

And people really were scared of buying them. That just sounds so- Wasn't that long ago. No, it wasn't that long ago. Beginning of the decade, they had a huge lockout coming. They knew that was happening. It was just hard. And those guys really smartly just stepped in with a plan.

It was good. Unfortunately, their plan didn't work to beat the Bucs this year. I just never know, though, if it's like the real estate agent who's bragging about how much he's killing it in 2007. Like, oh my God, did six new houses this week. Two to the same girl. Just crushing it, man. Yeah. She bought two condos.

I think Masai, Masai to me should be able to brag. He wouldn't brag because he's a good guy. He's not a bragger, but that's what an unbelievable trade. How he played that, how he didn't give up on Lowry and Ibaka

because they could have tried to get off either of those contracts. But he was like, I'm going to try this. I'm going to see if it works. They saw enough there in the seed. They also got rid of Dwayne Casey, which, you know. Coach of the year.

Coach of the year. And a lot of people got really pissy about that too. But he felt like my team has a ceiling. It's too low. And I need a better coach. I need to get a little more creative offensively. And we need a superstar because I just got my ass kicked by a superstar for multiple years in a row. And my two guys, I cannot count on.

Here's my chance. Maybe we get to keep him. Really smart. Good job by him. But you're right. If I'm Philly, I feel really good. And I know it bothers. But I thought those teams were close.

And it was all new. So we didn't really know how it was going to play. I mean, this is only really the second year and kind of the half a year with that group in Philly. So it's basically a half a year group. Extended ringer family member, Ben Dietrich, who wrote the incredible Colangelo story has been in our circles for, uh, since the Granlin days, he's come on our pods. He's one of my favorite Twitter feeds. He was unhinged during this Raptors series

about that the Sixers, that they were like really upset about stuff like even they didn't get Rodney Magruder in the last week. And then we could only play five guys in a game seven, like really like crazy about how badly they fucked up the bench. And I don't think he's wrong. I think it's almost inconceivable that with all the assets they had, they ended up with a five-man team in a game seven.

They could only play five guys. It's inconceivable. And then they barely lose. JJ didn't have a great run. But at least you could play him. Throwing Shaman? Could Shamit have given them 12 minutes in a game 7? so you're saying Landry Shamit's the difference between

no but just anybody they got Boban and they're telling us don't be surprised when it's a playoff game and you actually need to figure out how to win a game in the road or wherever you're not playing Boban. What about Mike Scott's big three?

Mike Scott, who's been on 40 teams. Ennis was all right. Was he? Yeah. I think five guys is an exaggeration. Well, that's how many they had in game seven. I know that's how many they play with at a time, but I'm just like, I think. I need seven in a game seven.

I at least need like a Fred Van Vliet type yeah they couldn't even get that right Shamit was their their Van Vliet how about Fultz that was the best

they could do for Fultz was Jonathan Simmons in a 2022 number one by the way remember Simmons when he used to actually score right it's always a bad sign

to me it's like look around at the league and if the Rockets are mad that Daniel House got away and they're telling reporters, we really fucked this up,

that guy's good, and then nobody signs him, and if the Spurs are going, yeah, you should take Jonathan Simmons. Good luck to him. He was a great Spur. That's my Yaka Purtle theory. That's a bad sign too.

we throw in Yaka Purtle, you have to say no. You're like, why? Wait a minute. What? They like Purtle theory. That's a bad sign too. we throw in Yaka Purtle, you have to say no. Right. You're like, why? Wait a minute. What? They like Purtle?

What about Purtle? Bring up his video again. I would say the Gasol trade was a success too. Another guy who's just been in a lot of big games, who's played in a lot of big international games.

You know what's funny is, think about how we do this though. He was unplayable. After game two, every TV shows, you can't play him. You've got to go with Ibaka. They miss Valanciunas. Valanciunas should be able to run with Borja Lopez. I think I said that.

I think I made the right record if you say that. I'm just saying now where we sit, it's like, you know what? It's nice to have Marc Gasol in a game six when you're down 10, and he's just been in a lot of big games. After game two, I didn't hear one person say it. I heard him described as unplayable by multiple people. Well, here's the other thing with Milwaukee that nobody's mentioned, or maybe Bill Metro, I just haven't heard.

Are we sure Lopez goes back? How are they going to be able to get him back for that number? I don't see how they pay him. If they've paid Middleton. He's got a huge deal for him this year. Now he might be somebody that gets like $60 million for three years or something. I don't know why he wouldn't. He's a big guy who's been in big games, who can shoot threes, and who can create stuff.

He's a great teammate. Yep. And we just got a six-week resume of him in the playoffs. I honestly can't think of—I wish I could just remember where I was at. Why was it that—oh, I mean, we can bring it up to the Lakers. No, because the Lakers, they just botched that asset. Right, but no one else was going, hey, Brooke Lopez for three and a half million bucks,

we should probably do that, right? Do we want to do that? I don't understand. I just thought he would have been a two-year deal. It's funny. This happens all the time. These guys end up on the wrong team and their stock drops

and they're on these teams that are just, you know, for whatever reason, they put the team poorly together, they're poorly coached, whatever.

In that case, they just put together a weird team and nobody looks at it and goes, we should try to steal somebody who's in the wrong situation.

Those are always the guys that end up being steals. That would be a great thing to start tracking is a guy that- All right, so let's do that right now. Let's ad lib it. So the five worst situations last year. I'm looking this up. Lakers.

I would say Phoenix. So a guy I like on Phoenix who is a little expensive, but I think TJ Warren on the right team would be good. You put him in a game. I think that guy can score in a playoff series. I'm not going to probably get him for, for nothing. Right.

I always love when Phoenix is ever like, whenever they're trying to like, there's a trade that's being, they'd be like, and they would, they would move TJ Warren. Like no way. Uh,

Aaron Gordon. That team was winning though. I think, I don't know. All right, so you put him in a playoff series. You might not get any points. He might be scoreless. You basically have Ben Simmons again. Right.

Or is he like Budget Duran if he played with the Golden State Warriors? Well, here's a guy. I'm kidding. Budget Duran. Here's a guy i'm kidding it's a budget threat here's a guy kevin love well his stock incredibly available yeah and the contract extension didn't make a ton of sense it felt a little bit like whenever a team does this yeah we know he left but screw

you we're gonna give kevin a hundred million bucks and everybody here is on the same page. You're like, I actually defended it last year because I know for this reason, I just think we forget how few good basketball players there are. I think we made a list on this pod last year, me and house. And he was like the 34th best player. And we're like, all right, there's 30 teams. You have $110 million to spend. Like, what are you going to spend it on? Why wouldn't you spend it on the 35th best player in the league? You know?

Think about how bad his, like, however low his stock is right now, except for the extension, probably scare some teams off. But that's a good one. I think that's exactly what the exercise is, except for the fact that Brooke Lopez made three. Tristan Thompson?

No, thanks. No? No, I think he's tougher to play in today's game. Been in multiple playoff series. I agree with you. I just wanted to

throw him out. I ended up liking him less and less. And he was weird because he's one of these rare examples of a big that could play in a small game and then it's i don't know then he kind of became unplayable in small games weird right i don't know

i don't i know that may not make any sense but that's i mean if you look at the warriors thing the warriors couldn't box him out in 16 couldn't do anything with them tristan killed him and then he couldn't stay on the floor in the rematches here's a guy like rashaun holmes love rashaun holmes i'm serious by the way why did philly trade rashaun holmes have you ever seen him play live i have live live he's you mean like the ymca no i was uh the draft camp he, he has an energy about him. I can't believe- You and I both love big man energy, guys.

Big, I mean, Stromo Swift, I'm still holding out hope for. Yeah, I think, but I mean, I think Brooke Lopez was somebody like, and I just knew from when the Celtics had the Nets lottery pick that year and he was just killing that pick. My dad and I would text about, fuck it, Brooke Lopez was somebody like, and I just knew from when the Celtics had the Nets lottery pick that year and he was just killing that pick. My dad and I would text about fucking Brooke Lopez. I had no idea this guy was this good.

And I understand how you just become one year 3.5 million two years later. It's crazy. So anyway, I think he's going to get paid. And if they lose him, there's a chance we don't like next year's Bucks team as much as we like this year's team. And now you, now you're in the Giannis time clock of, well,

you know, he's never actually fully said he's coming back and now we're, now we're doing it again. Woj has always brought that back when I was still doing the radio shows. He would, he would say that's, that's the one. So I don't want to turn this into some aggregate thing here.

Oh, aggregator alert. Right. Kyle, we need a sound effect for that. I'll track one down. Aggregator alert, because I have something for you on this. Oh, you do? Okay. He would always be like, that's the next, and it wasn't from a Giannis thing, it wasn't from a Waukee thing, but that'll be the next one that the Sharks start circling and figuring that hole out.

I don't know. I mean, to me, it was always odd to me. I found it very specific is my point. I found it very specific that it kept coming up whenever he would stop by and we'd start talking about like bigger picture stuff. This was a specific nugget. Somebody told me like a year ago,

this is before the Giannis MVP season was in full blossom. They should have given him, they should have given him more money was what this person told me. That by giving him a really good contract, but not the, we fucking believe in you, you're a franchise guy. How high can we go?

And he didn't't that he kind of filed that away how far off was it from the max money though they gave him 25 a year for four years it's like we really like you yeah but can we shave it's kind of it's the old middle it was like the minnesota kevin love thing right it's like like the Minnesota Kevin Love thing, which was a real thing. And the moment they did that, he was mentally out. Now, Giannis is not mentally out, but it's just like, if you're really, if that's your guy, just pay him.

And so I thought that was interesting. I had filed that away from a year ago. Now the fucking aggregators are going to go nuts. But I just want to point out, they didn't give them the max that they could have. It's like they left it open for somebody else, which I don't really fully understand. Yeah, I don't really have much else to offer on that one.

I don't, other than, you know. Well. I think the team is going to very, but it just, it changes so quick. They're on the clock about offering that. It changes so quick. Giannis, it's about to become his league. I mean, I can't, I just keep bringing it up because it's worth remembering

as you're watching these playoffs, especially when it's newer versions of these teams. Giannis, it's about to be his league. Nope. Hey, Miritich, what a great, big, oh, we can't play. Man, I was wrong on that one. I mean, all of this shit changed so fast.

I think he kind of started getting killed defensively. I think people start finding you. You know, you start playing more and more. I feel like he lost his confidence. But like, why? How do you not kill Van Vliet defensively? I don't know. They let Van Vliet get away with all sorts of...

You're playing Lowry and Van Vliet together. And it's like, that's... They're just dying to get posted up, basically, by anybody. I just didn't like the experimentation. There's anybody on Charlotte you like? Yeah, Bridges, because he said he played like shit this year. You love that. I loved it.

He was like, I don't want to be on an awards team. Don't reward me. No, Miles Bridges is like, I didn't get snubbed. I played like ass all year long. That's what he said. And he immediately became my favorite player because it was first of all he he didn't play well and then it's like so wait a minute guys are just hitting him up in his mention saying i got snubbed and so many other players would be

like oh smh i'll show these guys next year never forget and like when a guy does that who doesn't play well it drives me mental like wait a, you're not going to be any good because you're delusional enough to think you actually played well when you didn't. And now you're like, yeah, I did get snubbed and I'm going to use, I'm going to file. Hey, file it away before you have the bad season. This dude, instead of taking the bait, is like, nah, I played like ass. Yeah, stop. Everybody stop. Yeah, don't say I got snubbed because I didn't deserve it.

I mean, look, was it going to be a herder? No. Herder? You know somebody gave him a first team. Herder's your guy. Somebody gave him. Everybody thinks it's me. Did you have a vote?

No. It doesn't matter how many times I say I don't have a vote. No one believes me. No one believes me. Zach Lowe every year will be like, what are you doing with defensive player of the year? I'm like, Zach, I don't have a vote. No one believes me. No one believes me. Zach Lowe every year will be like, who are you? What are you doing with defensive player of the year? I'm like, Zach, I don't have a vote.

So. Zach is like shameless. He makes everybody feel like they're the one person he's confiding in about what's on your ballot, what are you going to do for MVP? But he's just copy pasting 27 texts. I always thought I was Zach's guy for this stuff. And then you come to find out

he's like a serial cheater with the NBA. Dwayne Wade got a second team vote? Yeah, just take that guy's vote now. And then somebody else... Somebody voted for Dwayne Wade for the second team of the NBA. Second team with the guards we had to choose

from this year. With lots of money at stake this year for different dudes. Right. Kemba Walker, Beal. I actually looked at all the voting to make sure right kemball walker beal i actually looked at all the voting to make sure nobody got fucked by a vote or something and actually was no there was no like hairline bear oh if one more thing had gone that so how do you feel then as a book because i know how serious you take it i think we did this segment like seven times this year so when i did it last last week and i really regret. I wish I had voted for Beal the more I thought about it after the thing. Because that became your thing.

As we kept doing it, you're like, if you're not in the playoffs, you're not in the playoffs, which you can't consistently say will always be your defining criteria. Because there are going to be other years where, I mean, there might be just a guy who's had an absurd year as a fish, and we know that his team has grown. Here's the thing. I didn't want to vote for LeBron, and I needed to justify it

with some sort of reason. I'll admit it. Yeah. The reason I didn't want to vote for LeBron, and I needed to justify it with some sort of reason. I'll admit it. Yeah. The reason I didn't want to vote for LeBron is everything that was in that ESPN story that came out today, because I knew all that stuff. And I just think he had a really damaging effect on that team this season, and I wasn't going to vote for him

because his fucking true shooting percentage was good. That was kind of my Kyrie thing. Like, when I left him off the first time around, people in Boston were pretty upset. I put him 13 just go look i go i've watched it all season long and you know what he ended up being second team i get it i mean his numbers were sick his numbers i think we've we've passed some sort of invisible line with the stat stuff and i don't know if we're ever coming back and i am somebody that i was going to the sloan conference last decade when it was at MIT.

I love this stuff. I read all of it. I try to incorporate it in the way I think about basketball. They can't be your go-to for all of your arguments. They just can't. You can't tell me Kyrie was one of the 10 best players in the league last year with the effect that he had on the team the whole way. You can't. And, that's why I get nervous sometimes too. It just really bothers me. When you go back and you check stuff, and if they're games that you're not really familiar with, like there are guys that have like 20 and 10 in a game

that sucked in the game. You know, like it does exist. Right. And I think it's- I mean, how many players over the years are just these guys that the empty, the Joe Barry Carroll when I was growing up in the 80s, like 24 and 10, the guy was a loser. He couldn't't win i don't know that i've ever seen a collection of

players control the basketball the way we have some guys and that was always my point with like russ and harden certainly and even isaiah's year with the celtics where you just you had entire seasons where it was one guy initiating everything they were doing. So, um, I just feel like wins and performance still has to matter with this stuff. And if you're putting up good stats on a team, that's as relatively talented as everybody else. And that team is not doing well. I have to blame the best guy.

I'm sorry. So the clay thing turned into, and this is really predictable too. Cause once it's like clay and then it's like, wait minute clay is one of the 15 best players you're like okay but clay didn't play well the beginning of the year and that's why i did not have a good regular that's what cost him not being on this it's what cost him 60 million dollars and then because let's face it more people are driving around less impressed with us than they are and you know what i mean like yeah and the in the family tree of this whole

world that we talk about like we're we're the most disliked because we're considered and maybe that's right the least impressive of anyone in this whole group and it's like so why do you guys have that vote and i just i don't know what the solution to it would be knowing that you guys are bummed but that clay thing got turned into something where it was like the media's fault was like look at his first two months of the season like i like clay as much as anybody but it was kind of hard to put him on also when you're when you're basically not involved offensively at all and you're just devas burtons whatever his name is like that's how they're using it offensively now we've seen the playoffs, you forget what a skilled offensive basketball player is

and that it's actually fun when he has the ball in his hands. They just didn't use it that way. He had those games where he would make 10 shots without dribbling and stuff like that. I'm sorry. He's a casualty of just how talented that team was. You can't say he was one of the best six guards. I think Beal, if you're

just going performance only, Beal was one of the best six guards. I think Beal, if you're just going performance only, Beal was one of the six best guards. But he played for a 32-win team. Like, are we rewarding that? Now the counter would be like, how is that his fault? John Wall got hurt. That team sucked. It was a disaster.

It's like, all right, but if we're rewarding 32 and 20 guys, then now is Devin Booker in the conversation on the 19 and 63 sons because he put up stats? I don't know. That's why I like Mitchell because I felt like he had this dramatic impact on Utah, and Utah I thought was one of the best five teams the second half of the year. That matters to me.

I wish I had voted for Beal if I had dude over again. Instead of? Instead of Mitchell. Instead of Mitchell. And you never voted Kemba, right? No, I was out on Kemba. I just thought Beal had the advantage over Kemba, right? No, I was out on Kemba. If I was, like, I just thought Beal had the advantage over Kemba for that.

Who would you rather have, though, Clay or Beal? If you're just going to have them? I think if you put Beal on the Warriors, he wouldn't have, his stats wouldn't have been any different than Clay's and they probably would have been a little bit worse defensively. I really like Bradley Beal.

I actually wanted to bring him up to you because I can't tell if this is just people throwing shit out there or if he's actually available. But I'm like, I think he's one of the best. We always talk about who's the best five, best seven. I really do think he's one of the best 15 guys in the league. And if

he was attainable for one of these playoff teams, that's the one, that's the name that gets my attention. I just don't know what the Wizards are going to do there. Because I heard Colin and Buecher today talking about, Colin was like, what about number four Kuzma and Lonzo for Beal? I don't, that's a lot.

I also don't know if I'm the Wizards. What, now what am I trying to do? Yeah, that's the problem is you probably are more likely to just want to pay Beal everything you need to pay him. So we feel like, okay, well, this whole thing screwed up. The John Wall contract's now the worst contract in the NBA. But instead of rebuilding around the bad contract, let's just keep one of the better players in the league

and just pay him. You just saw in the playoffs, you need Bradley Beal if you're actually going to be a team that's trying to win the title. You need a guy like him on your team.

So why would you trade that guy? Yeah, I don't think it makes sense for a team that actually is not afraid to spend money either. What if the Celts came to him and said,

Tatum, 14, 20, and 22 for Beal? We'll do this right now. I would say no if I'm the Wizards. Because you're so down on Tatum? I just like Beal. I want to be blown away if I'm trading Beal. I was really impressed with him. What about Kevin Love? Not Kevin Love. I was really impressed with him in the Wizards Celtics series two years ago. I thought he had really good moments. I liked the competitiveness.

And this is something I think we don't do enough when we talk about these guys. I try to do it, but I judge these guys by the playoffs. I don't care about the regular season. Regular season's great, but I really want to, like, I thought we learned a lot about Jamal Murray, mostly good in the playoffs. I feel better about him than I did because he was in these big-ass games. Going to the playoffs next year, I'm going to think about Jamal Murray differently.

Yeah. Whereas game two against San Antonio, I'm like, what is going on? This was the dream on the year before they had their first title season. He was in these playoff games playing at a level higher than I thought he was going to play.

I think there's something to that. That's why I kind of look at this Celtics team and I'm just not sure they have enough of those guys yet. Certainly not the guy, if Kyrie leaves, who's the guy who's going to be, I'm going to create a shot at crunch time guy. They don't have it. Scary Terry.

Don't worry about it. We got this. Really? Butler is weirdly huge for them now. Like the re-signing of him. Because if they don't have that now, it's now you're putting a huge thing on Ben Simmons' plate. But my point is with Beal,

if they're going to cash in that chip and they can't put Wall's contract in the trade, which I don't think they can, I need to get a mother load back for that dude because I think he's a special player. Yeah, you need to be looking at him as your franchise guy because he is, and he's better than Wall now anyway. So if I'm the Lakers and I could get Beal,

if I don't feel like I can sign a free agent, how much would you trade for that? What's he worth? I would give him all the young guys now. Would you? Yeah. But I would have to all the young guys now. Would you? Yeah. I mean, that's kind of,

but I would have to know that, all right, I'm signing Jimmy Butler and then I can trade for Beal and now we have three established guys and he's not going to want to, like, I don't know that I want to trade you the fourth pick. What if I pick swap you and I get the Wizards,

I think they have like the ninth pick back and I'm giving you all the other guys I really like that Garland kid but I'm saying you pick swap you get that ninth pick back and now I have another trade to make with that pick if I'm really trying to build a contender around LeBron this year

I'd have to know what the other like you're right they may at the core of it just say we don't want to do it so you know whatever like he's happy he's happy to take the extension we're fine but if you're the Lakers and you knew you were getting something else in free agency and you could trade for somebody like Beal like I always thought Beal made a lot of sense actually because I think he's the perfect guy to play off LeBron I think Beal was the adult in the room with the Wizards where he was the guy that like,

hey, I'm here to kick ass and win games. He's also incredibly young. He's so young. He's Joel Embiid's age. How about that? He's another one. He's like the Anthony Davis. Every time I look up in the Anthony Davis thing,

I'm like, Anthony Davis is still 19? Jesus. Right. How is that possible? He hasn't gone through puberty yet? I don't know that I, you know what I mean? I feel like, I feel like I'd want to be doing that deal

in conjunction with something else. Be like, okay, this is what our team is. We've stripped it of these young guys, but I'd like to not have to give up that pick. But that's also acting as if Washington wants to trade him.

And if Beal's happy and Washington's like, no, we need you because of Wall, then all this is probably moot. The problem is they got fucked by the lottery. If you're just talking about who took the biggest hit in that lottery, it's probably the Wizards

because they stunk. They didn't really get rewarded with as good of a lottery pick because Beal actually gave them probably 10 extra wins. But then out of all the teams in their general vicinity, they were the only one that didn't move up. Like New Orleans moved up and the Lakers moved up, but they didn't. So I would trade Beal if I could also get rid of Wall's contract and reboot.

Now, the Lakers actually, ironically, could potentially do that. Well, that was something I brought up to you, I think, around the deadline. Would you want to get off Wall so bad that you're including Beal? No one's brought it up to me. I know Joe Haas would. Joe Haas brings it up to me every time I talk to him. He's like, I'm not trading Beal.

If Wall isn't in the trade, fuck off. I'm hanging up. Imagine if somebody said, hey, we still think John Wall's good. it's just the achilles we'll be fine is he a clutch client he is right yeah i think he is right well the other thing so i i thought i was taking crazy pills because i was the only one who thinks this is a possibility then bucher and colin were talking about and bucher also thinks it's a possibility is chris paul of the lakers yeah you were on that last week. Yeah, but I thought I was like, this is logical, but

I'm also the only one saying this, so I might be crazy. But now I got my man Rick Buecher with me, but the Lonzo for the Chris Paul is the backup, backup, backup plan. I still think they're not coming out of this summer with nobody. So who is it? Might be Chris Paul. And then that's a classic Darryl move. What would Daryl, it is a classic Daryl move because I'm getting off this. We didn't even talk about how they fired a bunch of their. Yeah, they did. They had like a real

house cleaning and there's definitely I've not talked to him about it. I've known it's an info just from everything sizing up what I know and what I read like it really seems like it's a three person power struggle. Now the owner Darylaryl, and Mike D'Antoni with what to do about next year's contract. Because I guess the owner extended them. Daryl obviously wasn't a huge fan of it.

So they got rid of multiple people that were close to all that stuff. So I don't know how this plays out. My gut tells me not good. And then the new owner thing with Daryl, like now I'm starting to, he just got an extension, which is the weird part. Daryl got an extension. Daryl got an extension. But it's weird that he got an extension,

but they're not on the same page with the coach. Yeah, because when you said extension the first time, D'Antoni hasn't been given an extension, right? No, but he got one extra year. He got one extra year. But he had said, like, I wanted to end my career here. Can you trade a GM? I'd love to start trying.

Kyle, dial up the trade machine. Is there a GM trade machine? Which team needs Daryl that would be worth the asset going back? The Wizards. The Wizards? The Knicks. Would you do Beal for Maury? You'd have to take Ernie Grunfeld's contract. That's fine. We can just stretch provision Grunfeld. I always thought, I never understood why coaches and GMs couldn't get traded. I always thought there were some great windows for this to happen over the years, especially in football.

There's some really logical football coach trades. You never wrote this column? This would have made a lot of sense for you. I think I've alluded to it a lot of times. I would have loved, because I think one of the dumbest things we ever started believing, and you can tell me if you agreed or not but like when we started doing how many players would you take before you took Brad Stevens to start your franchise

and that was happening last summer like I need to punch myself in the face for having that conversation I had him like 29th I had like only like 28 players over him I said fucking guys will have him like 7th that's the stupidest shit ever.

That's so dumb. I have some regrets. You're a 28, 29. That's not even that bad. But guys, real guys were having this conversation last year on like, how many guys would you take before you take Brad Stevens? And now I regret, I regret those thoughts. I will tell you this. If he had been coaching Milwaukee, they would have won that series. Yeah, I still think he's a good coach, but I think it was an absurd. I don't know what to think of Budenholzer now. I was like blown away by how bad he was in that series.

I really was. And I hate to be the guy who blames the refs and the coaches, but I was just, I was like, what are you doing, dude? I couldn't believe they weren't posting up Lopez. They had 25 terrible shots. What? The hockey substitutions probably messed you up a little bit. But think about how quickly every...

I mean, look, I'm repeating myself. So I'm not going to... How quickly it turns. It's just... Everybody's like, this guy, Coach Bud, look at this system. This guy's amazing. How many breaks have we done? Two, right?

We've only done one break. Oh, well, let's take another one. Let's take a break to talk about our buddies at SimpliSafe Home Security. Great security system. Awesome protection. Very easy to use. And they're from Boston,

the city that has a chance to win three straight championships in a row. It's in play. Bruins up 1-0. SimpliS Safe got started after Harvard engineers' friends got burglarized when they went to get a security system. It was a hassle. Too complicated, too expensive, terrible contracts. So we built something better, a comprehensive, easy-to-use protection. No contracts, fair prices,

keeps your family and home safe 24-7 for only $14.99 a month. Better yet, engineered to keep working during power outages, downed Wi-Fi or for burgers, smashes your keypad, and thoughtfully designed so it's never in your way. It even protects against fires, carbon monoxide, water damage, and freezing pipes. Go with the only home security I trust, SimpliSafe, by going to simplisafe.com slash BS today.

SimpliSafe with two I's, simplisafe.com slash BS. Check it out. So I went through all the finals, tried to figure out the weirdest final subplots ever. You have two doozies, but they're both in the same finals. You have Kevin Durant probably leaving the Warriors. We have no idea if he's going to play. Today it came out he was traveling with the team to the finals.

And I heard Buecher talking to Colin about this. And he's like, it means one of two things. I had the same reaction. Either there's a chance he could play game two, which is Sunday. Or there's no chance he's playing in the finals. So fuck it. You might as well go on the trip. And Buecher said, I believe the latter.

I tend to believe the latter. I also believe the latter. I don't think we're seeing him in this finals unless it's like game six, game seven. I don't know yet. I don't know yet on that one. I mean, did do some on-court stuff a couple days ago. So, unless that was, hey, I'm going to try

and this isn't even close and that was the only point of doing it. I'm surprised the Cousins thing keeps coming up. Like, do they need Cousins? Like, I don't, you know. The Cousins thing's absurd coming up. Do they need cousins? I don't... The cousins thing's absurd. He's not playing in the series. It doesn't matter either way.

He's just taking time away from Swedish Larry. He just gets right into Gasol's grill before the tip of game one. Can we do a quick gym corner right now? Yeah. So calf injury, what would be your move in the gym to try to get this back well what would be working on like oh man my calf hurts i gotta get this thing ready i

want to i want to i can't not do legs i'm ryan rossillo yeah i know i would have to uh the hydration is key for the calves yeah yeah but i don't think you're gonna just start doing calf raises like that's not gonna bring it back so yeah i mean look if durant can't come back it's not like he needs me to help him come back you'd have to use that um that that gun thing that that that muscle thing that everybody uses now the theragun yeah so i gotta buy one of those to try to just prod away. I have a hot take. This is my hottest take of the pod. Oh, let me sit up. And I definitely think he had a calf tear and they're calling it a strain, but it's a tear. We talked about this last time.

Right. And by the way, I had some people texting, emailing that you were dead on. That's exactly what it is. It's a tear. I nailed it. You deserve a lot of credit. Killed it. I'm disappointed in the technology we have in 2019.

Unless like the calf was ripped off his body, like Triple H style. And Triple H has like, the tricep just rips off his arm during WrestleMania and he's out for eight months. I can't believe we don't have like a combination of, you know, electrolysis and weird fucking chambers to go into and PDs.

Cortisone? Oh, just, I can't believe we don't have the science to fix a calf injury in three, four weeks that it's, it's like one of the few things we can't really treat. It seems like, it's like if your calf's torn, it's torn and here's the timetable and there's no way to stop it. Well, I think ribs would be in first place over like things that you just can't fix. Like nothing. What's the worst rib injury you've had?

I haven't had it as bad as like my dad had his ribs broken. So I broke three ribs when I was in high school. Worst ever, right? It's indescribable. It's a hundred times more painful than you would ever in a million years. You can't even, you can't sneeze. You can't cough. You can't laugh. You can't sit up for long stretches of time. It's incredible. Those are three of your things you love doing. I, yeah. Sneezing, coughing, laughing. That's a big three for me. And then, uh, I bruised my

ribs in 2010. Actually, I fell on a stairs at the beach. There was this hole in the stairs. I didn't see. And I went through the hole and I rammed, I might've had a couple of cocktails and I rammed my ribs in the thing. And it was like, I can't breathe. And it was just a bruise. I didn't break anything,

but I had these bruised ribs for a week. And then you read about how these quarterbacks play. It was like, Oh, he's bruised ribs. He's playing Sunday. And I was like, I can't fucking drive.

I can't do anything. Am I just like the biggest loser ever? But my point is injuries really hurt. I've had a calf injury. I've had hamstring like over the years with basketball. The calf's brutal because you're always thinking you're going to make it worse. You don't realize how important it is until it's it's like the leg doesn't work yeah your leg's just gone right you're in one leg every time you try

to push off on it you're like wait a minute there's no way to solve it and this is probably the best part of the podcast when bill and ryan talked about all the yeah better compare injuries like if you have an if you have an injury is feeling this right now like kawaii had a sore sore seemed like a sore knee or something, right? Do we know what Kawhi had? Did he, did Robot Kawhi tell us what was wrong?

No, no. He had some, he's a pretty fun guy. He's, one of his legs was a little bit compromised. Yes. But it seemed like

he could play through it. He was okay. Yeah. If you have a calf tear, you're not playing through it. I also think Durant's body type makes it even worse. Oh man.

Like when it's, when your whole leg is a calf because he's so long. Like his calf muscle is probably the size of my torso. I did a whole thing in my book about how amazing it was that Willis played in that game seven of the finals things. And I did a whole bunch of research on it. And, you know, he basically, the injury had like, just you should be in a wheelchair. You shouldn't even be on a cane.

He blew, what's this muscle here? Hamstring? No, he blew his quad. Oh. And basically, you couldn't make it better. So the only way he could really play was it was so painful, they had to shoot this thing that was basically a horse tranquilizer into the leg so he couldn't feel it.

So they took this giant needle and they put it in there. And it's like, yeah, that feels good because he couldn't feel it. And then you watch the game. He's just like dragging the leg. That actually is more incredible over the course of time because we didn't have the internet and a lot of the stuff we have now. But if you actually go back incredible over the course of time because we didn't have the internet and a lot of the stuff we have now. But if you actually go back

and watch the clips. What were guys telling you when they were giving you the backstory to that? Like who did you talk to? I was just researching the books and stuff. Yeah, I didn't talk to anybody. Yeah, it was all written about at the time.

It's all written about? Yeah, is what it is. So yeah, Will Street. So anyway, I mean, they could shoot Durant up, but it's not like he can drag his leg around and play basketball

the way we play basketball now it's not happening so I don't think we're gonna see him also the little thing about free agency too like he may like oh you know what

no offense but the the debate the debate of like I'm one too I'm good right the debate of like

where he's at what if you're going to say and go hey will you play and we'll give you a max deal? And he's like, no, I'm good. Do you think the Knicks would have, if he blew out his Achilles, you think the Knicks still give him a max deal? Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. I'm surprised more people play. Achilles is tough. I think calf is probably safer. So anyway, you have this crazy KD subplot and then you have this even crazier Kawhi one and done subplot,

which we've had in a couple of times over the years, but never as blatant as this, where really nobody seems to think he's going back there. Even the Toronto fans who I think have just enjoyed the living hell out of the season are in the mode of, oh man, you know, you start winning these games. He's getting closer to us. I think even they really deep down know he's probably not staying. So. That's why I always think these decisions are kind of crazy the way we talk about them. As if like where you want to be the next four or five years of your life. And you would say, yeah, I could be here. Oh no, maybe I could

be here. No, no, I could do this. No, maybe I'll do this. Like, I just don't think it's. So the biggest decision you've been in your life was moving to LA. Like the most dramatic decision. Yeah, pretty much. You're like, I'm fucking leaving Connecticut. I'm moving to LA. Yeah.

And at some point you decided you were doing this. And then ESPN came in and said, we're getting rid of Kornheiser. You're going to go in with Wilbon. You're like, I can't do that to Tony. We never told this story. Iheiser. You're going to go in with Wilbon. You're like, I can't do that to Tony. We never told this story. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding, America. I'm kidding. They never said that. Tony Stokes for life. I'm just glad I didn't say that. I was like, am I supposed to talk about this now? No, but you moved to LA. You made this decision.

And at some point in your head, you're like, I'm fucking going to LA. Yeah. So analysts would come by and they would see I'd be on Zillow every commercial break. And that was going on for about two years. Eventually you made the move. I feel like that's what Kawhi's like. That's what I think most people do. I think Kawhi's on Zillow right now.

Yeah. I think he already was on Zillow. He already bought the house. He already bought the house. I always think these decisions, and that kind of gets back to the climate thing. Like to sit there and say, this is semantics. This is a semantics battle. Kevin Durant has a pretty good idea of what he's going to do in July right now.

He does. I would say. It would be weird if he didn't. So the weirdest subplots we've had heading into a finals. Oh, I love this. Did you research all this? I did. I'm pumped.

1998, this is probably the end for Jordan and the Bulls. And that was really weird. It's worth just revisiting it for people that may be younger, that it was just understood that this amazing team that's just going to three-peat again with the greatest player. Remember they manipulated the salary stuff too, where basically Jordan could be paid wherever they wanted to pay him. So he was making like 30 million decade before anybody else is making 30 million. And yet everybody just knew it was over. And it was really- Because they had ruined the relationships with Pippen and Phil Jackson to the point that those guys were leaving and people figured either Jordan was going to retire or jump to somebody else. I wrote about this last year

because the amazing part of this is that Jordan, I think, really did want to play again and they made it so he didn't really have an option. I think you're right. He didn't have a team to go to. And supposedly in this new documentary that's going to come out a year from now that's being done by one of my friends,

he talks about this. He wasn't really ready to retire yet. I always felt like when he was talking about like, when they were at the parade and they're celebrating, I didn't think he was full of it at all. I felt his tone was very genuine when he was kind of talking, like looking around, like, I don't know what's going to happen here. And that didn't seem like a guy to me that wanted to hang it up at all.

But they did some fucked up stuff to scotty that pushed him to the point they they read they took advantage of him financially with some contracts where they gave them extensions that were even worse than the you know basically he had a bad rookie contract rookie year or rookie scale deal whatever because, because his agent, whatever happened. And then they redid the deal and it seemed like they were doing him a favor, but they really weren't. And then there was another chance to redo it and they didn't. And then they could have like a year before the season. And I think by that time he played that last season, I think he was one of the top hundred highest paid players and the salaries had ballooned. And they just had, they had three different chances to just be like,

all right, we're taking care of this. And they just never did. And then the Jackson thing, they, they just couldn't wait to get rid of him. Yeah. They couldn't stand him.

And then Kraus, who I thought at the time, you know, cause I was, I was younger then and I'm still loving this stuff, but I was always impressed by his whole theory of what he was doing because he was dumping on the celtics he's like well the celtics held on everybody for so long and we're not going to do that i'm like man that's really bold like that's smart tim floyd and eddie curry yeah and so he's

got tyson chandler eddie curry he made the hall of fame i thought i was insane and then you kind of go hey you know what probably would have made way more fucking sense just coming back with all the guys that are really good that just won a third title. Yeah, and the other thing is with the Bird-McHale-Parish, there's a little bit of a revisionist history of that. It actually worked what they did. Bird just, his career ended early. Yeah, what was he, 32? He played 13 years. He was done.

Like LeBron's played 16 years. Like they just got hurt. Mikael had some injuries. But when they kept those guys together, the 91 and 92 teams were one of the best four teams, both of those seasons. And each year something happened. It was the kind of thing where I wasn't educated enough

and it sounded really impressive and unique. And I was like, man, this guy's bold. And then I think when you're younger and at that point, like i thought i wanted to work in sports and everything it just sounded like oh wow that's that's really impressive to me and then you realize hey you know what else is impressive like doing the smarter thing and keeping all those guys around so the lakers did the same thing right they kept magic and worthy and byron scott together and then had ended up having that one last run with the 91 team that almost

won the title. But I don't know. Anyway. So that team, other than that, I could not find a weird subplot before playoffs. The magic Isaiah thing was weird in 88. They made a big deal about that. Then they kissed each other in the cheek for every game. Like that was just, I still don't really have an explanation for that one. But then the other ones are just stuff that happened during a series. Like, you know, Nick Anderson missed the free throws in game one. And that became the dominant weird subplot.

LeBron had that weird meltdown in Dallas in game four in 2011. And that kind of transcended the series because it was so bizarre. Oh, six Mavs. Heat. Mavs. Heat. Mavs, Heat, the refs overpowered that series. The games three, game four, game five. The officiating became the dominant.

Go back. I wrote two different columns about it in the course of a week because that's all anyone was talking about. They weren't talking about the games. And then last year, J.R. Smith's foul after game one. And just all of that and how that was dealt with after the fact. It's pretty rare to have weird shit going on during the finals. It's usually like, all right, here are our two teams.

Here we go. Let's have some basketball. And this one has Kawhi and KD just kind of lingering over everything. Plus, not to mention the Warriors, four and five. Toronto never having been there before. The media never really having descended on Toronto for this, which, you know, you look back this decade with playoff series, every year there's been kind of one, eh, city.

So 2011 Dallas, eh, Dallas is fine. Right? Do you like Dallas more than I do? No, probably not. Yeah, Dallas is fine, right? Do you like Dallas more than I do? No, probably not. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. I don't. It's okay.

It's never on my top destination, but if I ever go there. 2012 OKC, eh. 13. OKC's behind Dallas. All right, just so we're clear. 13 and 14, San Antonio, eh. I still never been to San Antonio. Yeah, you're not missing out. San Antone.

15 through 18, Cleveland. Four straight years. But now this year they got San Francisco, Toronto. Are you doing anything for it? Everybody's going to be in a good mood. I don't know. I might sit this one out. I know.

I still want to go check out a Golden State game. I like the idea of not going to Toronto just because I think people from Toronto will take it personally you came to OKC but not here yeah but you were doing ESPN stuff then true like this would have to be you deciding just to do some things I don't even know if my passport works anywhere

passport there's no way Nephew Kyle's getting through customs. I mean, we've already established that. Oh, it's different. It clears. Kyle, stay in the United States.

I don't want you in international waters. No, but it's a good, because basically if Durant were healthy, you'd be sitting here watching the two best players maybe in their last run

while they're still in their prime. And it's really weird. And it's, and it's an awesome precursor to what this, this July. Let's do this right now, but we'll take a quick break.

Then we're doing the finals preview. Let's take a break. Talk about luminary specifically the rewatchables 1999 podcast available only on luminary rewatchables. 1999 is a spinoff off our very popular rewatchables podcast that had the hangover actually this week for rewatchables 1999 is a spin-off off our very popular Re-Watchables podcast that had the hangover actually this week. For Re-Watchables 1999

we dove into a bunch of iconic movies from 1999 which was an all-time great year in film and also like a really entertaining year. This week we're doing

Austin Powers 2. The second one. The one with Heather Graham. The best one. Spy Who Sh Heather Graham. The best one. Spy Who Shagged Me. A classic. We go through all the same categories like we always do, including this one was a good one. What is

the most 1999 thing about this movie? Let's just say American Online. It's prominently featured in Austin Powers 2. A lot of stuff like that. Check it out. Luminary also has great podcasts like Hannibal Burris' Handsome Rambler and Trevor Noah's Let's Talk This Out. You can get access to a bunch of original shows from innovative, dynamic creators you can't find anywhere else. Free app to download.

Use it to listen to thousands of podcasts, including the ones you love like this one right here. Movie, sports, comedy, and more that you will usually, if always, have the right show for you. Check it out. First two months of access to Luminary's premium content for free. You can sign up at luminary.link slash Simmons, and you can get, I think, like six rewatchables, $19.99 pods at this point. After that two months, $7.99 per month, luminary.link slash Simmons for two months of free access. Cancel any time. Terms apply. I guess the question is, could Kawhi win this by himself? Because we saw this in 2011 with Dirk Nowitzki.

He got a lot of help. People forget Jason Terry. Like, Tyson Chandler's defense was great. Sean Marion was awesome on LeBron. Like, that was a team victory. But Dirk's run was pretty great, that 2011 run. And the question is, will we remember 2019 as the Kawhi playoff run? Is it in play?

Yeah, it's definitely in play. But I'm not going to go ahead and pick it. Do you know what the odds are? For what? Just a straight up series? Toronto to win the series. I know they're still a pretty heavy dog, right? Yeah.

All right, so right now it's Warriors are minus like 290. Raps are in the plus 225, plus 230 range. MVP is fun. Oh, really? All right, here we go. Curry minus 143, which I just want to say was like minus 190 a week ago, and I was talking to Sal in-house about whether we should be stepping in on that. Kawhi is plus 250.

Draymond is plus 650. Durant is 14 to 1, which is complete lunacy. Klay Thompson, 20 to 1. Lowry, 30 to 1. Siakam, 50 to 1. Ibaka, 100 to 1. Cousins is 200 to1, which is absurd. Good value.

I mean, if the Warriors win, Curry's going to be the MVP, I would say. I would think so. I would think at this point. With no KD, he's going to shoot 28 times a game. Yeah, I mean, the Iguodala thing was fluky and wrong in 2015. Who should have won it? Curry. Curry was the whole reason that everything opened up

once he figured out, okay, this is what they're going to do. You could see it in that series. He was getting trapped. I always feel like the finals MVP is the biggest piece of chicken at the table for dad. The Chris Rock joke. Unless somebody else in that series

just went absolutely haywire crazy, just gave it to Tim Duncan in 07. Yeah. Like, stop with the Tony. Like, Tim Duncan's the best player in the league. Give him the finals MVP. Let's stop with the, oh, well, for these four games, Tony's shooting was, it's like,

Tim Duncan's the best player in the league. I think he would try to get cute with it. Yeah, stop. That's really what happens, and that's why, you know, this Curry stuff of I think he would try to get cute with it yeah stop that's really what happens and that's why you know this Curry stuff of like I want him to get a finals MVP

so people can stop asking the question if somehow we're supposed to reclassify him because he doesn't have one and because Iguodala won his in 2015 well so you

as you know yeah this is all about the narratives so we're coming out of this finals most realistic narratives to you I would say

number one would be Warriors win the title. Steph Curry wins the finals MVP, followed by a whole referendum on, is this now one of the 12 best players of all time? This is the final piece for him. He's the Tim Duncan of this era and everybody doing that whole thing. That's probably our most realistic path. Second most realistic path would be the Kawhi. Oh my God, this was one of the craziest nine week runs we've had. Now what happens? First time in the finals for the city.

One and done. Kawhi's the best player in the league now. And just the whole Kawhi, Toronto, this is one of the craziest things that's ever happened. That would be path number two. Path number three is... Jerobo, ultimate blue guy?

Swedish Larry, and people are like, fuck, he is better than Larry Bird. No, I would say path number three would be a long series and Durant comes back

about halfway through and swings the series and gets some sort of weird sports movie redemption. Right. Yeah. Like a Jalen Hurts thing. Yeah. Yeah.

And Steph had like a couple of games where he struggled. Yeah. So it's 2-2. Here comes KD. Yeah. Right. Right. We could have Steph on the one side.

Like he really is that special. He's that amazing. Or the anti-Steph people would be like, yes, he had a couple bad night shooting. Durant had to bail him out and he shouldn't have won that one in 15 either. And he's not that good. There's a path for,

which is a Draymond path where they put him on Kawhi and he takes Kawhi out of the series and puts up triple doubles, in shape Draymond, who lost between 23 and 30 pounds during this season somehow, is actually in shape,

and this becomes the Draymond Alpha Dogs fuck KD series. The no KD and they win without him is going to be the weirdest thing ever. So maybe that's path number one. The Warriors winning the finals without Kevin Durant. They win. So it's not so much the Steph referendum.

It will be. But it'll be like, think about Kevin Durant's path. Like he went there and everybody got mad about it. Okay. And I wasn't mad because I think I understood what he was doing for basketball happiness. But the more I thought about it, I'd be like, so what if LeBron went the next year? Like, I would have that conversation with myself. Like, you're going to be cool with that too?

Right. You're going to be cool with that? Because you're not. You're not going to be cool with that. So selfishly, everybody's pissed at Durant because now their team's goals are that much harder. People were mad at you and you started doing stuff with the ringer. I know. I couldn't believe it.

But now it's been a win for everybody. So everybody should be happy. Like, you didn't need to go there they already had bill and tate yeah they were loaded you're fucking jumping on one shiny podcast yeah did it today no big deal um it just would be such like i don't want that to happen to durant in a weird way i don't either i think Because it's going to be nasty. So it's funny. Not funny because he died. But I was thinking about narratives with Bill Buckner. The 86 team, I probably had five teams in my life that meant the most to me,

maybe even less than that. The 86 team is one of those teams. Same for me. I fucking love Bill Buckner. And he played hurt that whole year. And that Angels series is just like his DNA is all over that series. And especially the Hindu game and him greeting Henderson out of the Henderson's coming around.

He's the first guy out of the dugout to hug him. And he's just kind of like the emotional fulcrum of that team. And there's this great at bat he had with Mike Witt during that game in that inning when they, we need like three or two, three runs that inning inning and he's like yelling at Mike Witt trying to knock him out then he gets a single and he's just like I fucking love that guy and the narrative just became Bill Buckner's dead he made the play in the World Series and then it swings around it was actually unfair how he was remembered and this whole thing that we do now. I do feel like if the Warriors won the series without Duran, it really would change the big picture ceiling

of how we remember these last three years. Where it was like, actually, that team was so fucking awesome, it didn't matter whether they had Duran or not. Which is really dangerous for him. Because he cares about this shit. Right, because it may all be bullshit right okay you're still like before he had this calf thing he was the best player in the league he's the best player in the league the numbers are staggering and we saw it but it made golden state

look different and you know you can't just say well that team won 73 games and here they are again because that's not fair because they don't have the same depth because 30 million of it's sitting there in durant and you know harrison barnes even though he sucked in the finals he at least was somebody you can unplayable they took they took him out for a zealy with six minutes left right but all of those guys everybody that came in was a mess like festus missed those two layups and you're just like this thing nothing is going right for you guys down here and lebron and kairi awesome. But it would just be such a like, for all the things that Durant hates, this would be the thing,

like the shithead on his phone being like, they want it without you, dude. And that's where you went. And like, that's, you're right. That stuff would bother him. I love most of the time when things get super weird with sports. I really don't want this to happen.

I think Durant- So you'd rather the Warriors lose so that Durant spared the criticism or ridicule? I think the worst thing that could happen for me, somebody who just loves basketball and who likes Durant and respects him is the Warriors sweep without him.

They finished the year 9-0 without Durant and that just goes... It's the fucking asterisk on his basketball resume. Now he has to go to New York and win the title at that point. Now it's like, I have to leave. Now I have to beat you guys. And by the way, as we were running through all the East and just predicting Philly's going to roll through this thing and everything,

we've completely left out the entire summer of moves and how different those teams could look. So that's at least worth bringing up, you mentioned the thing going to New York. I hope that doesn't happen. And I also think Toronto, Toronto's too good to get swept by the Warriors. Yeah, I don't think they're going to get swept. It's not happening, so that's probably out.

But they might, you know. I think Kawhi's going to be a real problem for them without Durant. I actually think they need him in this series. And I, you know, they're, they're playing Jarebko and they're playing McKinney and these dudes that,

you know, they're just a little light on the swingman side. I'd be watching Houston tape and going, let's try to get away with what, like when PJ Tucker can arm bar Curry on a curl, like that's what we need to do. Cause as soon as they got to play, Portland was like, now this is way easier. Right. an armbar curry on a curl. That's what we need to do. Because as soon as they got to play Portland,

it was like, now, this is way easier. So this is one of the things with Toronto. I can't wait to see what they do with Kawhi, see who they put him on. I had a couple of people tell me they didn't understand why they weren't putting Bledsoe on Kawhi in that series. Because apparently he doesn't love being guarded by smaller guys.

And that there's some success. No kidding. Success potion with that over the years. Where just guys that are like really in his grill, like trying to disrupt his ball handling could be a thing. So I talked to one person in particular who was just like, why didn't they put Bledsoe on him? It's like such a great use of Bledsoe.

Because like the Celtics, I think would have put Marcus Smart on him. I don't think they would have guarded him with Tatum and Jalen. I think they would have gone smaller and tried to make him like post up or something. But the Warriors don't really have that guy to do that. So that's just going to be Iguodala,

who might be- Yeah, Draymond, Iguodala. And Draymond's the other thing. But now if you have Draymond, now you really have to play Looney which is fine which is fine because he's been great right

I think it's I think it's but I'm thinking Kawhi pretty set up for them like are they going to have Kawhi close on Steph they should right why is he guarding

Iguodala or Draymond could this be the Lowry series we've been waiting for forever? That's what scares me if I'm a Toronto fan is that as much as we can start talking about all the moving pieces of Kawhi and, you know,

I think everybody does this thing with Golden State where it's a little overrated where they try to do this deal where it's like, well, you just play big against him. And like, well, a lot of times when you try to do that,

they still make you look stupid. And Looney's a real piece. Like Looney can legitimately play whatever big position you need right now. But you keep getting back to like van vliet and lowry gonna run around and chase chase clay and curry i would think they're going to use kawaii to disrupt that at some point unless they feel like kawaii isn't all the way healthy and that they need to manage him in a way where he's still giving you 38 minutes but you know he's on offense but it would almost feel like a

to keep kawaii defensively on those other guys. Could this be the Lowry series where he's just... I actually really... I thought he was a winner in that last series. He was better. He deserves credit for somebody who... He went kind of junkyard doggish, right? He was on the floor a lot and getting loose balls.

He was always going to be on the floor. Trying to get charges. No, but I mean... Yeah, he does all that stuff. His spirit was back. Yeah, I still wonder if he gets a clean look in a game with

30 seconds left, is he pulling it or is he always looking to make another? There's too many times in him I'm like, why are you throwing it to Siakam in the corner now? You're still supposed to be Kyle Lowry. But overall, the playoff run for this guy this year versus some of the stuff we've seen, he deserves credit. Yeah, absolutely.

So you think is, and Danny Green, if he doesn't snap out of this, he becomes probably unplayable. I don't think that that happens that way. I know Danny Green's missing all these shots and almost took the building out of it in the beginning of game six when he missed those first three. But we, from the outside, do this. It's kind of like the Bledsoe thing. Like where you're just like, all right, well, you can't play this guy anymore. I'm sure Nick Nurse feels like I'm not going to abandon the guy. I think it's more realistic that he comes back

than it is for Van Vliet to keep doing the way what he did those last couple games. I think that's less realistic to me, especially in the bigger stage when you have a more disciplined defensive team. And I don't know. Yeah, because what Van Vliet did was insane. So I wouldn't expect like, hey, this guy's just going to shoot 80%. That's one of the great things about this playoffs is that weird shit happens.

I like when weird shit happens. And you look back and you go, it's like that year Orlando beat Cleveland, which I think probably shouldn't have happened. But they were a team that shot a lot of threes during the season, had Dwight, and were successful at it. And then they just played well.

And everybody else on Cleveland went cold other than LeBron. LeBron had one of the great series ever. You know what was great about that series is it was the classic, like in the playoffs watching it in the first game, you go, wait a minute. This is a problem. And it was because you had huge guys on catch and shoot plays for Orlando being guarded by really small guards.

And there was nothing. All of a sudden, you just went, well, there's nothing. Like Cleveland's got to roll with Boobie Gibson. And was it Moe? And they were chasing around Rashard Lewis and Turkoglu. I went, I looked up guys just in the history of the playoffs who played at least 16 playoff games, which is a really, that's a long sample size at that point.

You're talking, I don't know, seven weeks at that point. 16 playoff games, 27 points a game, at least seven rebounds a game, PR over 25, shot at least 48%. List is not long. LeBron's on here four times. Jordan's on here twice. You got three Shaq seasons. You got two Hakeem seasons.

You got a Durant 2018. You got Dirk in 2011. Dirk's 2011 is on there, huh? Yeah. Wow. The point is, every one of these seasons except MJ in 90 and MJ in 89 led to the team at least making the finals. And in two-thirds of the cases, the team won.

So Kawhi's on this list is my point. You're talking LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, KD, Bird, Nowitzki. That's pretty rarefied air. Yeah, that's like the no, why are you here in the room list. That is like, you're not getting a better list than that. I was surprised Kobe wasn't on that list. Say it again. Well, his shooting numbers, I bet, would never clear it.

28-7, 48% shooting, 25 PR. Just like, it's really hard to do that for more than like 12 games in a row. LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kawhi, Kareem, Hakeem. Both Hakeem seasons, you would think 94-95. Bird, Nowitzki. And what's cool is it's all the seasons you would have thought.

You know, like it's Bird's 84 season. He was 27-11 that year. He was just really good. Nowitzki's 11. Durant last year was 29-8. Kareem's 74 season. Shaq, all three seasons when he was the best player in the league. 00, 01,

and 02. And then all the big Jordan seasons. And then all the LeBron seasons, you would think. That's good. So the thing is... It's a good list, obviously. I don't want to sound like I'm stating the obvious. Thanks for coming today, Ry.

I knew Kawhi was talented. I still was never ready to go there. I voted for him, I think, second for MVP that one year. I definitely thought he was one of the best players in the 14 finals. That he had that playoffs two years ago, he was great. But guys have had moments like that. This is different.

He's now at a different place, I think, historically, and just like what I thought his ceiling would be as a player. The two-way thing he did in the first three rounds was really, really, really high up there. I guess, I don't know. Like, I've always kind of felt like he was in this group, but not that group that you just listed to me. But, you know, he's different in the way that Giannis is different. That's why the parallels in that series was interesting for the backstory stuff.

If you're going to be one of those guys, we usually know, like, maybe first year, the worst your second year. Right? Yeah. Like, everybody you just mentioned was really probably first year for worst your second year right yeah like everybody you just mentioned it was really probably first year for every one of those dudes um yeah maybe not dirk you know i mean maybe not dirk maybe like third year for yeah but everybody else like that's why you know sometimes a guy you know he goes in the lottery he goes fourth and then he's on a new team his third year and then that whole fan base is like awesome we're just gonna be like not really yeah because he's probably gonna suck

no offense Kawhi's just so different from any kind of person that we could say arguably is the best player in the world I think what's amazing about this run and why I think it's gonna be remembered win or lose what happens in this finals finals is the two-way stuff. And the fact that he was just kind of deciding which player to take out each round and then doing a really good job. Like the numbers on Giannis, that was a pretty big sample size of the effect that he had on Giannis. The stretch that he had at the end of game three,

when it's just like for three minutes, they were down like 12, 13. And for three minutes, he just down like 12, 13. And for three minutes, he just did like every single thing in the basketball court. Okay. Even got his own rebound in the free throw, which he crossed the line. They never call that for some reason, but, uh, but he just did everything. He like by himself brought them back. And then in the fourth quarter, other guys stepped in, but that was really like high up there. But think of all the times too, in basketball where we'll say like, well, why can't this guy just do this? You know, drive more, right? That's like people sitting at home, just drive to the hoop more, just drive to the hoop more. First of all, there's never been

any basketball, not even Jordan. No one can just drive the hoop relentlessly all night long. It just doesn't work that way. Whether you're going to get tired or different things are going to happen in front of you defensively. You can get six fouls. Yeah. You just, you can't just drive to the hoop every single possession, even though it drives me nuts when commentators say that kind of stuff like oh you're gonna take the hoop gonna take the hoop more yeah he finds a way to kind of do it though he finds a way to just there's you know steph always had this thing where when i'd watch him when he was rolling it was like everything in the basketball court was happening around him yeah you know he was he was the sun and everything else was connected to him when when it first started

becoming really apparent like this Steph Curry thing's insane okay but Kawhi does it in a way where you don't you almost don't even realize it's happening to you where yeah I'm gonna get this board yep I'm gonna go length of the floor all right now I got my layup now I got an and one okay I'm gonna come down here I'm gonna defend this guy I'm gonna to go length of the floor. All right, now I got my layup. Now I got an and one. Okay, I'm going to come down here. I'm going to defend this guy. I'm going to get this rebound. And you're just like, how did this guy all of a sudden become like the one player doing everything in the game? And because, I mean, look, the donkey had to finish out game six.

It was sick, but that's not usually, like, he's just rocking you to death. The block was underrated like a minute after. Giannis did get his revenge on that duck. Oh, that, yeah. He went way up. Yeah. You know what else is crazy about this Kawhi season? I mean, I would say out of all these guys I just mentioned,

Hakeem is the best defensive player. Jordan's probably, until this Kawhi season, the second. I think Kawhi is more impactful defensively because he can guard more guys. But the really crazy thing, he's almost a 50-40-90 guy this year. He's 51%, 88% free throws, which is nuts with the amount of punishment he took. And then he's 39% from three. And this includes that fucking crazy 16 for 39 game seven. He's taking a lot of field goals.

This isn't like one of those things where he's just parachuting in and getting like he's actually taking a lot of shots, but still high percentage of them. So I really think it's way up there. No matter what happens this round, I think it's going to stand the test. Any other narratives you could see popping out of this finals? I'm just wondering, is there any scenario where,

like I don't think Klay was going anywhere, but could they lose, have it be disappointing? He could be a win, but I think it's more realistic he's a winner this round, right? Who, Klay? Where he makes like 23s in five games.

Yeah, I don't expect Klay to not play well, but I'm just trying to think of like anything, like if the Warriors lost and it was ugly and Durant didn't come back and it was not ugly like they got their asses kicked, but just, you know,

he didn't get enough shots or something like that. Like a Draymond would say something. Look, I'm seriously like, this is fiction I'm giving you right now. Yeah, this is fiction. I'm giving you right now. I'm trying to think of like, whatever, what other scenario could you have?

Could it be ever actually be bad where this is the bad ending? Well, there's one other scenario we haven't talked about. Talked about this on Friday's pod. The Warriors go up to nothing. And Katie's like, Hey guys, goodness,

I'm back. And then they lose game three. It's in play. It's in play. It's in play, but he has to come back and play. You can't tell him no. What's the difference between working hard and working smart? Well, just look at the Lakers.

They haven't worked very hard and they are not working smart. We're going to talk about that in a second. You want to talk about a place that's not working smart? Try the Los Angeles Lakers the last six, seven years. ZipRecruiter's technology and tools make hiring more efficient and effective. The smartest way to hire. Powerful technology. Scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience for your job. The tech doesn't just stop there. It even learns what kind of candidates you like and invites more to apply. ZipRecruiter's so effective. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day.

My listeners can try it for free. Oh yeah. Go to ziprecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter.com slash BSZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. And if you want to get smart, by the way, don't forget about Big Little Live, our Big Little Lives after show. Amanda Dobbins and ESPN's Mina Kimes. We are launching with a previous show, I think that June 7th, actually. And then the show starts on June 9th on Twitter, at Twitter, or hashtag Big Little Live. So check that out. All right, let's talk Lakers. Some quick questions, and then I think we have to go. Nick in Reston wants to know, is Anthony Davis the NBA equivalent

of Fred Taylor's hamstring? I think that's strong. I looked up the stats. It's not that bad. Should the Raptors, Marty wants to know, should the Raptors retire Kawhi's jersey

before game five of the finals or wait till next year when he comes back on another team the jersey retirement criteria has definitely weakened over could he get his jersey retired for one season if they make the finals but don't win toronto would do it they probably would they're so grateful the canadians are such nice people aaron solomon wants to point out that Ben Simmons had a terrible season, or a disappointing season. And immediately after the season,

Kendall Jenner broke up with him. Was that a coincidence? I actually thought it was the least surprising breakup ever, right? The season ends. She's good at that point, right? Because now there's no more games to go to. If she was at least partly in it

because of the whole courtside, like the attention of the whole thing. Now the season's ended abruptly. At that point, you kind of find out who you are as a couple. And apparently we found out. So that's why they're in it for the courtside seats? I think it's a reason. That seems to be disappointing.

Jeremy wants to know, is Drake now the most famous sideline celebrity of all time? Over Jack, over Spike, over... Yeah, and me. And you? No. Jack, Spike, Jim Goldstein. Jim Goldstein, yeah, but Jim's always on the move. David, do you follow

David Spade on Instagram no he does these funny Instagram stories but he did this one thing where

he had it was like Clay Thompson shooting before a game and Jim Goldstein is just standing behind him looking like

Jim Goldstein and David Spade he's just like this thing where he's like yeah mom we found him yeah he's at the game he where he's like, yeah, mom, we found him.

Yeah, he's at the game. He must have wandered off. Yeah, they're coming to get him. But it's just really good. Oh, I want to check it out. Spade's Instagram is solid. Goldstein did a 10-year challenge. And he was like, fuck this.

I'm going to do a 30-year challenge. And guys still were like, oh, my god, he hasn't aged. This is incredible. He's like, 10 years? I actually thinkke is the most famous sideline celebrity because what about the guy in minnesota that pretends he's coaching with the rolled up paper and he squats down i don't know about this guy no that guy sounds amazing yeah and i can see if you lost your fucking mind that you could be like this guy just if just if things went weird for you and you just lost your shit maybe tomorrow you have a lot of money yeah he wears like a suit i can't wait

from i think it's minnesota and i don't know if he's still there now because i feel like i didn't notice him this year but like he he has a rolled up like piece of white paper he crouches in front of the seat and he pretends he's like coaching and then he points like this and then he gets up i mean he's it's crazy i don't know if he's still doing and then he points like this and then he gets up i mean he's it's crazy i don't know if he's still doing it but i remember he was doing it for years it was nuts he's not as famous though obviously i talked about how yamming met his wife how it was kind of arranged by the chinese government and i said i'd be it wasn't met on tall on tall person tinder and chris it was a joke throwaway joke on a podcast.

Chris Davis said that site wouldn't be called Tinder, it would be called Timber. And then he said, I'll see myself out. Good stuff out of you. On a Tuesday? Timber, not Tinder, Timber. Yeah. That was good. Carl Forsman wants us to give our best guess for the starting point guard for every NBA team next year,

which is impossible because there's like 20 spots. But I actually made a list of all the people that I'm positive will be the point guard next year. Here's the list. Atlanta, Trey Young, Cleveland, Colin Sexton, Denver, Jamal Murray, Golden State, Curry, Milwaukee, Bledsoe, OKC, Westbrook, Philly, Simmons, Portland, Lillard, Sacramento, Fox, Utah, Mitchell. I just named 10 teams. There were 20 teams I couldn't figure out who the point guard was going to be next year. Yeah, but Mitchell's not their point guard. Isn't it Rubio? Well, he'll probably play there next year.

Yeah. But the point is, it's like point guard snow globe just getting shook next year. You could even argue if Cleveland ends up taking a guard, they move Sexton to the two. I don't think they would trade him. I'm just... Oh, interesting. They could... Cleveland could be in a guard, they move Sexton to the two. I don't think they would trade him. I'm just... Oh, interesting. They could... Cleveland could be in a situation,

and maybe not, where they're looking at just going, let's just put two guards back there and see what happens. I mean, that's why the Portland-McCollum-Lillard thing in a weird way doesn't get enough credit. As much as everybody's always trying to break it up, the fact that it works

and they have this synergy back there is is awesome i do like when uh i like the whole concept of stop pigeonholing people the positions is somebody a guard they're a guard yeah why did we do that for so long because curry's a guard somebody was saying that recently curry's not a point guard he's just a guard play their position but it used to be the worst it used to it was bad it was bad to be those things. Think about how dumb that was. Basketball teams, pro basketball teams, preferred that the guy who had the ball in his hands all the time couldn't score. That's seriously what it was.

Quinn Buckner. Yeah, like we don't, hey, he's a pretty good shooter. That's not going to work. Last thing, let's talk about, let's do a new episode of Throne Game. We'll just do it with the Lakers since Game of Thrones is now gone. Throne Game. So this Lakers story comes out. It's been rumored

for, honestly, two months. This Baxter Holmes story. Had no idea what it would be. I'm sure it's been litigated down. This was probably the tamer version of whatever the original story was that ended up getting held. But some crazy dysfunctional stuff in there.

Now, I went into the piece knowing the Lakers were a 10 out of 10 on the dysfunction scale. And I was still surprised by a couple of things. Like Palenka just getting caught in lies about arranging Heath Ledger and Cobra to dinner. Well, we got to do the full Palenka story. For those that, I mean, this was the thing today. So Palenka's there with The Rock at some speaking engagement. And he goes, you know, Kobe Bryant. And then he even says, which makes me think there's something weird

about the way he talks about stuff. Where he goes, you know, Kobe Bryant's somebody I've worked with for 18 years. You'd be like, dude, everybody knows. Yeah, slow down. Right. So then he goes, he loved Dark Knight. He's like, I got to meet Heath Ledger. He just locked into this role of loved dark knight he's like i gotta meet heath ledger he just locked into this role of the joker he's like so i was able to set up a dinner and

then kobe was able to take some of what he learned from heath ledger and how heath got into the role of the joker and then use some of that against the knicks when they played okay and then everybody went and figured out none of the dates figured right we did this on nba desktop a year ago but it was a big internet thing a year ago. There's a possibility that Kobe read a story about Heath Ledger's preparation for the role, did not see the movie yet, but just wanted to meet Heath Ledger to talk about this, and they met, and Palenka remembered the story wrong.

I'm just giving him benefit of the doubt. Because if it's not that, it's a weird- It's a weird, crazy lie. Have you ever had any friends growing up where you're like, oh, this guy just is kind of a liar? Yeah. He just wants to tell good stories, but none of them are true? I worked with somebody once. We used to call him a serial white liar.

It was never a damaging lie, but it was always a white lie. And I'd be like, what was the stakes for that? Yeah, what was the point? What was the payoff? Yeah, why even tell a lie? Yeah. I don't know that. But yeah or that but yeah so maybe point goes to cereal white liar that was weird uh the weirdest things in that story were just the rich paul stuff and rich paul traveling in the charter and the fear with the coaching staff and the mistrust of that rich paul didn't want to be the coach there's this really funny story about Maverick Carter,

LeBron's content guy, having lunch with Adam Silver. Rich Paul, quote unquote, right at the next table, or at a close table and comes by, which was clearly arranged. But there's a lot of nuggets like that that I just was amused by. The stuff that never made any sense is like, as they're sitting there signing all these guys and there's it sounded like the sourcing of this were assistant coaches that aren't there anymore that felt like okay magic said we'll be patient and he turned on us after

a three and five start yeah which was bullshit okay that was that was bad by magic you know like three and five like guys were hurt it's all these new pieces and you want me to have like a tight eight man rotation and you're the guys that went out and signed all these people and then one of the assistant coaches says in the piece he's like you know we're signing all these guys we're not adding any shooters and we're signing every basket case left in free agency which is how we all felt in the moment right and it's like they're really actually doing this and And then Plink is like, no,

we want to be, we want to be like this. We want to be able to, you know, to match up. Magic said that in summer league, we want to be tougher. Yeah.

Tougher. Playoffs about toughness. Yeah. Right now it's, and shooting. And some shooting. And a couple shots. Turns out some shooting is good.

So then you have like Clutch's presence around the facility. And then I didn't know that LeBron still had buddies that he had, like, on the payroll. Three? Yeah, they're on the payroll for the Lakers. That'd be like if I was related to Nephew Kyle. Like, that's fucking crazy. Word.

Shit is crazy. No, you're actually confident. We don't know about those other guys. It's weird that the three go from Cleveland to the Lakers. They're just part of the deal. It's not a salary cap violation. No, they're just going to be hired. Just Randy, his dude since he was like 12.

Yeah, right. So then what happens is, is even if those guys are doing a good job, say they're bringing something to the table and it's not really a big deal and everybody thinking that it looks... It's just that the coaching staff goes, we know Rich wants us fired,

which means LeBron wants us fired. And you and I had both heard forever. Right. So now we're being evaluated constantly by these guys that are aligned with LeBron. And then Magic lights us up two weeks into the season. So that was the part I found least believable. I'm not saying it wasn't not true, but I worked with Magic for a year. I just never saw that side of him once.

So there's two people in the piece that say that Magic basically was a bully. And one woman said she had to go to therapy and take- Had PTSD. Right. Had to take medication. There's a whole thing about Irvin versus Magic. And sometimes Magic was the guy everybody loved, but sometimes he was Irvin. And it's like- So you, like you said, you worked with him.

You never saw him get upset once. We spent a lot of time together for like eight straight months. That one season. I never saw that side to him once. I mean, I had times where I got mad at people during that season. I know, I heard about it. Yeah. Now, sometimes things get fucked up, the rundown.

You don't have to explain it to me. You know, and you're like, what the fuck? What are we doing here? You know, I never saw him do that. I found it hard to believe he was laying into people, but apparently he was. Yeah.

Could I offer up something, though? Do you think the setting would be different when he's with guys that he respects? You're a guy that's made it. You're there with Will Bond. You're on the show. He's working for ESPN.

It's not like the Lakers. You can tell by how somebody treats yeah usually all types of people expose themselves yeah at some point you're exposing yourself with a pa or like the person who brings the food or whatever i just never saw it i thought that was maybe he's changed so i that was six years ago when I worked with him. That was weird. Then the other thing, I mean, Jeannie Buss was even seen more removed than I thought she was. Just completely afraid to deal with anything and

just kind of leaning on the rambuses as her conduit. That sounded awful. Jeannie Buss has come off horribly over the last year. Man, I feel like people have tricked us. I feel like there are people that have been writing about Jeannie and have known Jeannie and have told us how great she is and that she was going to come to the rescue and she

understands the business. And she was the one like, oh, finally, everything's good. Like it was all these media people out here in LA that I'm reading. And I'm assuming like if all of you guys are telling me how great Jeannie is, like that's all I have to go by. She seemed like she was great at building relationships with people who write and talk about stuff. Because everybody vouched for her.

Everybody vouched for her forever. And it's no different. It's no different with her versus Jeannie. Maybe people just like her better or she's nice. But the biggest takeaway if I'm a Lakers fan is that Plinkham might be a disaster. Yeah. And it's not just you sign guys and it's not working out.

There's animosity around the league. Like what I picked up from some of the stuff that you talked to guys, it's just other teams are not going to do this team any favors. I don't know if that means agents. Agents all can go at it with each other. But is it so nasty with Palenka that certain agents are going to steer their clients away from this team? I don't think it's just Palenka, though. I think that Rich Paul shadow is looming too. I think it's both of those things. Yeah, because it starts turning into like,

if Rich Paul and these guys, like some of the stuff with Rich, it's like, what's the goal? Is the goal to put your guy, LeBron, in the best position to win? Or is the goal to show everybody like how much juice you guys have? I honestly think it's that. Because I think sometimes, well, it's not sometimes. This was the battle in Cleveland. It's the Paul George thing all over again. It's like, can you commit to, like, if you are part of a team,

there are some sacrifices, no matter how great, how powerful you are, where it's like, can we all be on the same page for some stuff? And it doesn't seem like that's always the case and i palenka came off like i've tried to have an open mind about the palenka thing and go okay look he's had the non-traditional path to this he's brought in magic's going to be this guy palenka is going to be this guy but then palenka goes and draft somebody without telling any of the scouts like the scouts are watching the draft in a second room expecting that uh amari spellman's going to be taken from Villanova. They think the pick is in.

And then on TV, they see that it's Mo Wagner. And then it's because Josh Hart made a comment. I thought that was great, too. I also loved this article had statements from Rich Paul and media strategist Adam Mendelsohn, who wasn't involved in the story at all, but somehow had a statement. That was really weird to me too. I've never seen that ever in a sports story in my life. It's like, here's this other person who's not involved at all, but here's the statement. Here's the person who LeBron has hired to help play his media strategy. He's going to weigh in now.

What? Yeah, it was almost like. So weird. He's like, do you guys need a quote from me? You guys want me to chime in? The whole thing is a train wreck. And this leads me to my question, and then we'll end on this. What do they do?

I don't know how they get a free agent with the current regime. So if I were them, here's what I would do. I would fire Polenka, and I would just tell Bob Myers, like, name your price. Do you want $15 million a year? Done.

How about $15, how about $75 million for five years? What would it be worth to not have had this happen million for five years? What would it be worth to not have had this happen the last two years? It's got to be worth $75 million at least. And then they get Bob Myers in. And then people go, okay, that's cool. He's competent. That guy's good.

Smart move. Here we go. Yeah, you shouldn't have to pay $15 million for the GM, but you can argue that for the Lakers, it wipes away all of this bullshit immediately. Like New Orleans. That's the fix. New Orleans did that with Griffin,

who is so popular in the media that everybody calls him Griff. But he's also well-respected. Well-respected, super popular, and New Orleans is like Tom Benson's widow Gail running the team nobody has any idea she knows anything about anything and then she's

hires David Griffin and people are like oh yeah smart move and now nobody's talking about Gail Benson anymore not at all I mean think about

David Griffin's over there think about what that fix is worth was that worth 50 million dollars yeah but that's the Pelicans now I don't want to like have to give a fake Ravel what that fix is worth. Was that worth $50 million? Yeah, but that's the Pelicans.

Now, I don't want to like have to give a fake Ravel valuation of something, but that's kind of what that is. But like, what would this be worth in good press to just go, hey, Bob Myers is here. This Palenka thing's over. And let's, let's.

Well, if you're the Lakers, you've spent 140 million on LeBron and then Randy and the other two guys are probably making like a combined

10 million a year Randy's the director of player whatever pulling in five a year but whatever you're paying for that whole package

plus like all the chartered planes you're probably sneaking by and all the other stuff. You're probably in for like 150, I would say. I don't know where you're coming up with that. His buddies aren't making millions of dollars. I'm just saying all in.

Right. Dinners, courting. You've spent at least 150 on this. Sure, sure. And it's a four-year commitment to this guy or three years because he could leave in the fourth year. I would want at least something good to come out of it. So I just want a competent person. If it's not Bob Myers, who is it?

I don't know. There's not that many people out there. I guess you could- So Olshay just got re-signed by Portland. Jerry West is 81. Phil Jackson would be mocked at more than anything else they've done. Phil Jackson would be the,

and then him getting back together with Genie. That would be the funniest. What if they win? Such a good idea. Kurt Rambis would get mocked. Who would play Phil Jackson in the Disney version? Michael Chiklis? Somebody just complete physical opposite. That would be Jeff Goldblum, right? With the

gray wig on? Goldblum would be really good. Gawky and Phil Jackson-y? Who would play LeBron himself? Never mind. That would be good. I love when they're like, well, LeBron, you know, he's filming Space Jam now. He's staying at it. They're filming a movie. It's great.

The rest of the league is fired up that that's happening. But there's somebody else we haven't heard from. Yeah. Palenka's guy. Oh oh yeah the kobe thing i've been waiting for the kobe magic you love baker's holy war it's been my dream somebody not talking telling us everything no one's a bigger fan of that than you are you think this is plank is ko, right? Yeah. I worked with him for 18 years. I'm trying to think who my guy is. I guess I don't have a guy, but let's say it's Joe House.

Joe House is under attack. There's just been this huge story. I'm just doing one tweet for Joe House. Or like one interview or something. I got Joe House's back if Joe House is under attack. Yeah, right. Where's Kobe? Where's he bed.

He's done interviews. Right. Has he done some stuff recently. No. So that leads me to the last last question. What if they hire

Kobe to run the Lakers. With Palenka in the magic. And then Kobe never signs worse players to make sure LeBron can't surpass him. Maybe Palenka sabotaged this all along.

What a great script. For Kobe. What a great script that would be. You should write this. You're a writer. Kobe becomes GM and makes sure he just does all sorts of weird trades. Or Kobe put Palenca in there two years earlier

to make sure this, knowing this LeBron thing's coming. Just when you thought you didn't have a figure. Yeah, it's even more so. Poinca's calling Kobe. He's like, hey, guess what? I think we can sign Lance Stevenson. They're just laughing for three minutes.

And we're going to get Jamil McGee. Call China and find out what Beasley's up to. So there's like a China episode. It's not even an episode. It's just a couple of pages on China. Kobe calls Plink and he's like, hey, that Zubach has potential. You got to get rid of him.

Call the Clippers. Interior. Interior. Smoking den. Beijing. Michael Beasley sits alone. Nursing a soda water. We didn't hear from his agent. With a soda water with a cigarette. We didn't hear from his agent.

With a cigarette. With a cigarette. From the outside comes in Rob Palenka, and he says, Hi, I'm Rob. Word? It's Beasley's line. We've studied your appearances on the 12 other teams in the league that you've played for.

We think this might be the one. Do you want to come play for the Lakers? Word. Scene. Hop on this plane with me and our pilot, Randy LeBron's buddy. Kobe. Oh man.

Yeah, I know. I actually, I think he's like, wait a minute. Brooke Lopez is how much three million no don't sign him

get rid of him can't tell him it's not him it's us I think they are by far the most dysfunctional franchise in the league now I brought this up

a couple weeks ago where there was them sons versus Knicks the Lakers clearly are the most they're lapping everybody that was like a 9,000 word piece today

all about how dysfunctional they are I can't believe it doesn't stop, Bill. In two weeks, not even two weeks, we went from Magic going on first take, calling out Palenka by name. Yeah. Then segue into the actual presser that day for somehow the third choice, who should have been the first choice, his head coach. And then Palenka's up there telling you it's the best experience of his life working with magic and then he just laughs it off, which I actually kind of admired a little bit.

And then you're like, okay, well now it's done. No. Took me half an hour to read that thing. I had given up on this Baxter Holmes piece even coming out. Right, we've been hearing about it for months. It was one of those things I started reading on my phone at seven in the morning

and you start scrolling and scrolling and then you're like, oh shit, there's like a lot of scrolling left in this anyway good job uh interesting piece i will say the one red flag for me was there's a lot of disgruntled people out there that had a vested interest in that piece being written so right you know you always have to take that with a grain of salt because you have all the people that, the Luke Wall and coaching staff side, you have all the disgruntled front office employees, people who are let go.

You have other agents who can't stand Rich Paul. So put it this way, there's a lot of ways to go if you're looking for sources. Absolutely. I mean, the way the sources were kind of, they're anonymous and I don't have a problem with that as much as other people do. Also, he gave everybody a chance to talk and nobody except for Adam Mendelsohn

came in with a big statement. That's all I got today. Yeah. All right. Well, this was fun. All right. Good seeing you. We'll do next week at some point.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Thanks to DAZN. Don right. Good seeing you. We'll do next week at some point. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Thanks to DAZN. Don't forget to go to DAZN.com. Anthony Joshua fight is coming this week. It's going to be a fun one.

He's got to take care of business, and we're heading towards some big stuff coming up in the heavyweight division. Thanks to SimpliSafe. Easy to use protection. No contracts. Fair prices. And they're from the city of champions, Boston. I like it because it's engineered to keep working during power outages

or down Wi-Fi. And also they're from Boston. Go with the only home security I trust, SimpliSafe, by going to simplisafe.com slash BS. SimpliSafe for two eyes, simplisafe.com slash BS. Thanks as well to Home Depot, where you can get the best in home decor. Thousands of on-trend prices to help fill your space, plus in-store returns and free,

flexible delivery. Shop homedepot.com slash decor and save up to 10% with code BSHomedepot. Valid on select items only online. Free delivery on select items, $45 or more. Visit homedepot.com for more information. We're back with one more pod later this week. Don't forget about the Rewatchables feed. The hangover is on there.

And Rewatchables 1999 coming up. Austin Powers 2 later in the week. Until then. On the wayside Never on the same I don't have A few lips with him On the wayside On the wayside Never on the same I don't have

A few lips with him