The Bill Simmons Podcast - KD’s Revenge on Small Game James, Plus NFL QB Roulette and the Strange Streaming Wars With Wosny Lambre, Peter Schrager, and Matthew Belloni

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lambre to discuss the Nets shellacking the 76ers, playoff implications, and more (2:31). Then Bill talks with NFL Network's Peter Schrager about Russell Wilson getting traded to the Broncos, the upcoming "QB roulette," and more (35:49). Finally Bill is joined by Matthew Belloni to discuss the media streamers pivoting to a less aggressive production model, CNN's branding dilemma, Disney's CEO trouble, Matt's new Ringer podcast, ‘The Town With Matthew Belloni,’ and more (1:17:42). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Wosny Lambre, Peter Schrager, and Matthew Belloni Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, I have an emergency reaction to the Sixers-Nets game, the biggest game we've had all year. Plus, I have a lot of football. I have a lot of Hollywood. This is a great podcast. You should be paying for this. I can't believe we're getting this for free. I'm so lucky. It's all next. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sportsbook is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking,

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You will have a parlay, especially picked by me. I'm watching a lot of basketball right now. I'm kind of starting to get into the zone. I don't want to spoil it. But speaking of the zone, Big Waz and I are going to break down the Sixers-Nets game. And then our old friend Peter Schrager talking about the Wilson trade.

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Can't wait to get going. First, our friends, the legends, Pearl Jam. All right, taping this first segment of the podcast a little before 7 o'clock Pacific time. Waz is here. Waz and Lambert. Waz, the Sixers couldn't even make it to the end of the game. We were going to wait until after the game. They couldn't even make it. There's 4.32 left.

This was an iconic James Harden game. And the vibe I was getting from the stands were like deep down. They knew about the history. They knew he had some stinkers in his past. They knew they weren't sure if they were going to be able to go to war with him. They knew he quit on two teams in 13 months, but they talked themselves into it. And this was the uh-oh game for the Sixers fans. We'll get to Brooklyn in a second. But the Sixers fans this was the uh-oh game for the Sixers fans. We'll get to Brooklyn in a second.

But the Sixers fans, this was uh-oh. Yeah, it's tough for James Harden to play like this. And look, we get it. It's just one regular season game. If you're a Sixers fan, you got to talk yourself into that, right? It's just one regular season game. Yes, this game had a lot of buildup and a lot of hype and anticipation. And they're freaking stalking Ben Simmons outside of Starbucks.

And we get it. And if you're a Sixers fan, you say it's one game. But, man, was this just a stinker. And I saw somewhere on Twitter somebody said the Sixers fans booed the Sixers more than they did Ben Simmons tonight. I think that was probably the right move too. Look, we've seen this from Harden in years past. You could tell immediately. I got off.

So I had my tweet ready. I typed it near the end of the first quarter. James Harden has done jack shit so far. This really does feel like a playoff game. I'm like, it's too early. Maybe he'll rally. That went through the second quarter. Nope, not too early anymore. You know, there was a competitiveness

and a, and a kind of a bully ballness to the nets tonight. And I think they, they felt from the get-go, we're going to go right in a bead. We're not going to be afraid of them. And Kyrie was in Harden's mug from the get-go. And it honestly didn't seem like Harden really wanted it. It looked, it was like watching a boxing match where one guy really wanted to mix it up and the other guy wasn't really ready to do it. Remember that one play when he went flying into Durant and put his shoulder in his chest?

But other than that, I felt like Kyrie was in FU mode with him and Harden just wasn't matching it. It was weird to watch. A couple of things on that. We talked about this on group chat yesterday me Verrier and Michael Pina uh and Verrier was like look Kyrie before this game is saying us downplay we get it to media to build it up to sell hype for the games and various like I'm confused how why is he saying all this I'm'm like, Varia, this is chat. He's going to play really hard this game. And that's exactly what he did.

To the point, Bill, there was a point in the second quarter where James Harden kept trying to get somebody else that isn't Kyrie to guard him. He kept calling for screens of wings that wasn't Kyrie. Like, he's mismatch hunting guys who aren't Kyrie as if he's the second coming of Scottie Pippen. It was insane to watch. And Kyrie's six feet tall. We should mention that piece.

I think now the Sixers fans, I'm sure, like, yeah, it's just one regular season game. It wasn't. This was not one regular season game. This was the first real bona fide playoff type game we've had. And there was really animosity on both sides that you could feel any questions about how did Durant feel about this trade? How did Kyrene Harden feel about each other? It was all answered.

There's even some drumming to beat stuff, but you know, this Philly team, when you think of a game like this and you're like, all right, now we're hate to use this analogy during the with the

world conflict right now but this is a go to war game right like who who's on my side who are the battle tested dudes and you look at like Tobias Harris

look terrified the whole game Tyrese Maxey's never played in a game like this ever Ty Bull who wait hold on Bill Sixers fans told me Tyrese Massey is, he's Bob Cousy. The new big three. Yeah, he's the new big three. Bob Cousy reincarnated.

He's one of the best point guards in the league already. But you go, and then they're going to their bench. Dwight Howard's playing? Dwight Howard's been bouncing around you know, like a Yankee Christmas swap gift for three years. You mean DeAndre Jordan. I'm sorry, DeAndre Jordan. That's what I Right. Um,

all of a sudden he's out there and you think like, not only did the nets, um, do pretty well in that trade, but they kind of took Philly's depth. This was Joe house's point. There's your drumming in there. It's Seth Curry look great.

Um, and Philly, like, you know, when they, if your two stars didn't really show up, one of them did, the other one didn't.

And then that's when you need like, all right, we need the bench. We're at home. Let's bring the bench in to turn this around. That didn't happen either. So I think this was an alarming game if I'm the Sixers. And I'm not an overreaction regular season guy, but this is the James Harden we've seen for 10 years. And I'll go through the playoff resume in a second. But do you think this is an overreact game or is this a, hey, settle down, it's March? No, definitely you got to have your eyebrow raised. And look, James Harden going three for 19 or whatever the hell it is he went tonight. That's horrible.

You can't have that in the playoffs. However, I don't think he'll be quite to that level of horrible in the playoffs. I think a lot of sixes, it was three for 17. Oh, to be fair. I think a lot of Sixers fans felt like there was some concern trolling with skeptics of this team post Harden trade about their defense. And I think tonight is what you saw defensively. They went up against a top flight offense who was, you know, very invested in getting stuff done.

And there was no resistance at no point in Brooklyn feel the Sixers defense putting pressure on them, making them feel uncomfortable. Doc kept doing this weird thing where he's chasing KD, who's seven foot one. He's sending two defenders at him at the top of the key where he could just see it coming, see directly over the defense. And he's just spoon feeding guys, you know, three on two opportunities and they're getting layups. And I'm like, that's what you need to be worried about as a Sixers supporter is that defense, man. I know Joel is all world and he's a world beater, but against the best teams, they're going to be able to take Joel out of plays

and it's going to be on those guys on the back line to execute. And who are these pieces for them? Yeah, and you have Harden, who is a liability on defense. I think that's fair to say. So is Tobias Harris. You have Durant against Tobias Harris. That's rough. Now, there's not a lot of guys who can, I would say, defend Kevin Durant against Tobias Harris. That's rough. Now, there's not a lot of guys who can,

I would say, defend Kevin Durant. There are guys who can at least make him work. I think Tatum did a good job on Sunday. Even though Durant ended up with 35, that was a good toe-to-toe. But man, the Philly, from a defensive standpoint, that was kind of alarming. And then you think Brooklyn's bench can come in

and their bench is going to be, especially when they get Simmons back, if that ever happens, their bench is just going to be so much deeper. And the reason we bring this up is this could very conceivably be the two seven matchup. We could see that Sixers. And if I'm the Sixers, I don't want to see that. They tried to establish a beat in the first quarter. They're like, we're going to go and be a Beat's going to have 70 points today. And they did that. They did, but it's not sustainable when you're just getting torched on the other end.

And, you know, he had three fouls, but in the first half, it was rough. Push it, Doc Rivers, as your coach. Yikes. Yeah. The Doc vendetta continues. I love it. What I will say, you mentioned the Sixers defense.

Ty Bull is one of the best defenders in the league, especially off ball. However, the way the Nets were playing the Sixers defensively, they treated him as a non-entity. They gave him Tony Allen treatment. You know, basically, we're not going to guard you. We're going to force your team to play four and five. And that's a problem. If Ty Bull can't make a couple of shots

to justify his existence on offense, and so therefore they have to take him out. That's tough. And again, I don't want to pile on the Sixers, even though this was fucking horrible. Let's pile on them. They were crowning themselves the champs for a month. They were beating themselves in the chest

for kicking the Knicks asses. The juggernaut that is the T-Bulls, they got an incredible win against those guys. And it's like, oh my God, we won the world. We won the trade championship in tow. And then they ducked the Miami game. It's like, Hardy, you're going to rest tonight against Miami. So that was weird in retrospect looking back.

It was like, why didn't he play in that game? Why did he play the night before in the easier game? For sure. And again, Ty Bull, he has to make shots. And look, Danny Green didn't play tonight. Not that Danny Green is, you know, Danny Green of 2014. That's where we are. They lost by 100 points.

Danny Green didn't play tonight. That's not where they are. Come on. Danny Green didn't play. Obviously, their offense looks a little bit different when Danny Green is out there spacing things for them. And again, look, I think Harden is not the isolation player that he once was. It's it's just obvious now. He's just not that right now. He's not what he was in previous years as an isolation one on one guy.

Joel allows him to play against conventional pick and roll defenses because teams are scared as hell of switching small guys onto Joel. And so, again, I think the offense is going to be fine because the Harden and Joel thing works in many ways, especially if Joel is making his threes. But, man, all that chest pumping, y'all got to chill with that. There was a point in the first quarter, it sounds weird to say it because it was the first quarter. There was a point when it felt like the game was starting to slip away from the Sixers.

And it felt like Harden had a chance to assert himself. And he started to be like distributor James Harden. And then I think eventually he tried to get his stuff going, but it was a little too late. There was a point in that first quarter where you're like, Durant Kyrie brought it tonight. I got to bring it right now. This is now star against star.

We got two 10. This is now two on two with some role players. I got to go. And for some reason Harden, it was like he was hitting a snooze alarm in the game. All right, a couple more minutes. I'll be ready. And it's like, you're down 20?

They need you now? Get to the fucking basket? Hit some threes? I thought it was alarming. Can we do the James Harden, just a quick no-show history? For sure. We did this on the Book of Basketball pod. So, it goes back to the 2012 finals

when he was awful, and it was one of the reasons they trade him. He was four and eight in Houston elimination games. The stats are pretty grisly. He was knocked out of the playoffs at home in three straight postseasons. 2015 Clips series, game six, five for 20,

benched during the comeback of Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, Terrence Jones, the magical man in the Staples no one will ever forget. 2017 game six, San Antonio, two forwer, Terrence Jones The magical men in the Staples No one will ever forget 2017 Game 6 San Antonio 2 for 11, 10 points 2018 Golden State Warriors

Up 3-2 22 for 51 with 14 turnovers In the final two games 6 for 25 from 3 2019, no KD They're home 35 points 11 for 25 25 6 turnovers

but it was really just Curry and Clay and they didn't take care of business in that and then in 2020 which was the last one he sucked

in that game 4 against the Lakers that was really the end of the series when I think he was that was another 2 for 11

as Zach Lowe always points out he said 3 different famous 2 for 11s in the playoffs so Zach's whole thing is like is he the Karl Malone of our generation in big games?

My point is, I wasn't surprised to see him no show tonight's game. I don't think if it's a big game and Harden doesn't play up to what we think his capabilities are, I don't see how anybody could ever be surprised at this point. And another thing, to stay on the Harden stuff, you know, Joel comes out and he's basically, I think what you were talking about is when he's manning this bench unit lineup, where it's basically Harden and a bunch of guys that, you know, bench guys. And they're just not able to generate any meaningful, like, quality offense. Yeah. Where back in the days, like, especially, like, right after Houston has shipped out Dwight Howard,

where it's just James Harden and guys, and he willed them to, like, 47 wins. He is not that dude no more. It's to the point where I think, Bill, you might literally have to mirror his minutes with Joel. Because if he's not going to be able to kill people one-on-one and he's that huge of a liability on defense i think you're going to have to marry his minutes to joel because that's when he's at his most devastating at this point is when he's paired with mb because he's not this killer anymore well we'll find out about his red calf injury that they showed him on the sidelines.

Him rubbing his thing. Alright, so a couple also, he was doing the thing where he was bitching for calls and... When James Harden complains about a ticky-tack call, I'm just like, Lord, have mercy. Come on, James Harden. We can't do this with you.

Here's what I learned tonight, Waz. Kyle, turn the camera. I actually disliked the Sixers more than the Nets because of Harden, because he forced his way out of two teams in 12 months.

As I'm watching this, I'm thinking, I should dislike the Nets more. Kyrie, terrible ending in Boston. It's always fun to root against him.

He's probably our number one Boston villain now. Ben Simmons quits on the Sixers, refuses to play. Now there's rumors he might be trying to get his money back, even though he wouldn't play for them. And it's like, I kind

of want to root against this team. But then the game started, and I found myself just gravitating to Nash and Durant, and even Kyrie, who's fucking awesome sometimes. It's really fun to watch him. And as weird as he is, he's one of the weirdest NBA players we've had, I think, in my lifetime. He's on certain nights, man.

When you know he has it, it's really fun to watch him. And I found myself kind of rooting for Brooklyn. An emotion I did not expect. Where was your heart leading to as this first quarter unfolded? Well, you know, I was out for the past two weeks. I can't say I was paying much attention to the NBA. I wasn't really online that much. But, you know, the second I go onto my Twitter,

it's like old takes exposed. And I didn't even listen to what I said. It was something that I said on this podcast. And, you know, Sixers fans are going nuts, right? Like, they're in their winning streak. They're beating up on, you know, Emmanuel Quickly and the mighty New York Knicks. They're really smelling themselves. So I'm just like, okay, I see what this is.

Now I have to root for you people to be hurt. I have to root for you people to get crushed. I have to root for you people to have sleepless nights, pits in your stomach. You know when your team loses and you can't even eat the next day? That's what I have to root for for Sixers fans now. When ordinarily I would just be like, whatever it is, what it is. I'm definitely invested in seeing the Sixers go down in flames at this point. Absolutely.

And yes, the Harden thing, I didn't like at all. It rubbed me the wrong way. But like you said, so did the Simmons thing. Kyrie's whole, you know, third eye, Illuminati's trying to get us with the vaccine. That makes me sick. But yeah, deep down inside, I have to root against the Sixers fan base.

Yeah, and this is all good fun. We're not like... Of course. We just, look, we good fun. We're not like, of course we just look, we watch games. We're rooting for somebody. Sometimes we're rooting for nobody, but I was surprised. And really it's because Durant is such a special player. I mean, he's one of the 10 best ever. He showed again tonight that if it's a, if it's a really big game, a really big one, especially in an atmosphere like that, how many guys do you actually want on your side in a game like that?

The crowd's going nuts. They're chanting, fuck Ben Simmons. And Durant's like icy killer the whole time, which by the way, he wasn't always like that. Like there was moments in OKC when, I do think he grew into that, maybe because of what happened in 2016. All right, a couple other notes I had. KC when I do think he grew into that maybe because of what happened in 2016.

All right. A couple other, a couple other notes I had. Did Durant reclaim the best player alive case? I mean, Jokic is basically averaging 35 and 16. Just, it seems like every night now. I don't even know who the best player is,

but I, to me, Durant just kind of raised his hand and reminded everyone, like, hey, when we're talking Jokic and Embiid and Luka and you guys are doing this round robin, just, can you, just, I'm right here. Giannis, just, I'm over here. Yeah, when KD's

right, you know, give me the seven-foot guy with the devastating crossover, the pull-up jumper, the dead-eye three-point shot, the great help defense when he's up for it, right? Like, manning the back line on the help side, he's incredible at that when he's up for it, when he's right. So, yeah, give me KD in all of those situations.

He was just, you know, you could tell, again, in the first quarter, these are one-on-one superstar shots that he's making, right? That is just like, I'm just going to destroy whoever's in front of me. This is what is, you know, this is what is needed of me from my team. And go in and beat that time. He threw that in,

which I would have bet he was going to do at some point, but yeah, he's trying to be the emotional fulcrum as opposed to James, who looked like he was wearing a James mask. I don't think the expression on his face even changed for four quarters. He looked like he had the James Harden beard on. Kyrie, look, who knows? Who knows if he's going to be allowed to play in the home games?

Oh, man. Who knows if Brooklyn's going to be in a situation where they're better off having the 7-8 on the road. So he can play, my guess is all this stuff will get figured out. But when I noticed this on Sunday with the KD Curry and Kyrie all out there at the same time, and Curry's kind of an afterthought in the corner with where the defense is shifting away from him.

And he's just got open threes or he can, Curry's a really good offensive player. And that was my fear with this Philly trade in the deck in the beginning was like, he just, I know that he played well with them bead, you know, and they had to give that up for the trade.

But now he's like this just embarrassment of riches in their offense. And he's just kind of over on the side, putting up 22, you know? Yeah. And what's cool is that he's another ball mover. And you mentioned Kyrie. Early on in his career, he was that pound the air out of the ball kind of guy.

And he gets to it sometimes when he feels a matchup that he needs. But for the most part on his team, man, he's whipping the ball around. They're finding the open man, sending the extra pass. And it's really cool to see. And, again, he's getting up in James Harden's grill yeah offensively he's taking the matchup personally and when Kyrie's at his best when he is moving the ball when he's attacking the proper matchups when he is just you know putting relentless pressure on the rim and he's guarding his guy in a way that's competent and not just a complete sieve and a turnstile to

the basket extremely fun to watch outside of all of the sage burning and all the extracurriculars really talented guy really strange guy in the running for strangest professional athlete last five years but uh incredibly talented So I want to mention the, uh, the fuck Ben Simmons chance. They, they heard a little bit since my son's name is Ben Simmons. And then I talked myself into it,

but this is great. They're chaining. Fuck my kid's name. Um, Simmons was this weird, I don't even like subplot. I didn't, he was wearing some,

what was that sweatshirt he was wearing? I don't know whether he was trying to launch a clothing line tonight. I don't know why he was there. I literally have no idea why he was there other than if antagonized. That's it. This is it. These two teams don't like each other. Obviously, there's, you know, bad feelings between guys like James and Kyrie. Clearly, it's on record how Joel feels about Ben Simmons, right? So there's bad blood from multiple guys on each team. And so he's there to antagonize, which finally Ben Simmons is like, do something that we can get some respect. Like if he would have showed up to the game and be like, oh, I can't be there.

I don't want to face these fans, all of that. You know, it was cool. It was a good first step for Ben Simmons in like, alright, man, let me get back to being a regular hooper and not some sideshow. I would be interested to see if he could have played in a game like the one tonight

with how intense it got when you're basically afraid to get fouled. I think if he was out there, the smart move, I don't know if Philly would have done it, but you just go hack a Ben immediately. Got shot 34% from the free throw line in the playoffs last year. Let's put him on the line. Let's try to get in his head.

Let's do it right away. Let's see. But from what we saw tonight, he might play 18 to 20 minutes a game for them in the playoffs. You know, it's almost like anything he gives them is a bonus because they have enough. And also, like we didn't mention the Drummond trade. Man, if I'm Philly, I'm kind of fighting giving up Drummond in that because you see like the drop off to Dwight Howard, like Drummond, even though Embiid was putting up stats, Drummond's

at least like can get rebounds and put up stats basically. You know, and it was the kind of big body that the Nets didn't have before. So, you know, I think it was smart for the Nets to get him.

I don't know that DeAndre Jordan is the long-term answer there at back of five. In fact, yes, I do. He's not the answer. He's not short-term. He's not short-term.

I don't even know why I said long-term. He's just not the answer. He's not any term. He's not the answer. He's not short term. He's not short term. I don't even know why I said long term. He's just not the answer. He's not any term. He's not any answer to your backup center position. But to get back to Ben Simmons, I think, man, watching this game and seeing some of the things that James Johnson and Claxton were able to do with their catching the ball in space.

And they don't possess the ball handling and theoretical finishing ability. And also, like, Ben Simmons legitimately is just a much better passer with the ball in his hand. Like, Simmons catching the ball in space because defenses are so worried about what Kevin Durant does on the ball. Like, some of those, you know, catch the ball after Kevin, like they send two while Kevin Durant's dribbling at the top of the key, and he dumps it over the top to Claxton,

and he makes a smart decision and finishes over Harden two times. If that's Ben Simmons that's catching that, you know, on a three-on-two going downhill, that's when he's at his best. And I think some of the stuff you've seen James Johnson do, you know, basically with the dribble handoff type of stuff, I think Simmons, man, can slot in really nicely. But he has to be playing next to Kyrie and KD because they're going to be able to create the gravity and the pressure on the defense that allow him

to do things that he's capable of, that he has the skills to and not, like, we're not going to ask you to get the ball at the top of the key and break a dude down and actually score. Yeah, and the Nets were feisty on defense today. Last thing for me just on this game was, was that, do you think, Steve Nash's first happy moment in, like, what, 10 months since, like since the Celtics-Nets playoff series?

I was thinking about him today because they showed him a couple of times. So there was a couple of times over the last few months when they would show him on the sidelines and he kind of looked like Obama near the end of the second term where all of a sudden it's like, oh, Obama's hair went white. I didn't realize. Like, oh, Obama's got two teenage daughters and he just ran the country for eight years and he just, you could see it on his face. Nash was looking like that. But today the Nash was more hopeful Nash.

It was a light at the end of the tunnel Nash. It was the, oh, I still have Durant. Kyrie's probably going to be able to play every game. This weird Harden situation where he shows up out of shape and he's pretty miserable the last two months he's here, that's out.

I have Simmons as like a fun wild card. I have a bench. I have shooting. It doesn't really matter if Joe Harris comes back or not now because at least we have, we've replaced the shooting with Curry. I don't know.

And then as an eight seed, which I think they have to be the most dangerous eight seed we've had. People would say the 1999 Knicks, but come on. Come on. This team's a little more dangerous at full strength than that team was. But yeah, I think he's got to be feeling good. And the cool thing, too, is that when he got the job, I remember when he got the job,

there was so much carping about it and bitching and moaning and did Steve Nash skip the line and blah, blah, blah. And why are they advocating for Nash to get it? And the idea was that he was just going to come in and try to be a people manager. You know, in his time in the league, he was known as one of the most emotionally intelligent guys in all of basketball.

And this was going to be a team with some mercurial personality types. And it was going to be his job to manage that. And guess what? The job has been anything but that. He's had to actually coach. They said the Nets have started 37 different lineups this year. This is legitimate hardships on a coach, right? And so finally, he's starting to get his guys back.

KD's been injured. Of course, the Kyrie stuff. Harden got injured. All of this stuff that's happened with this team, he hasn't had just a normal few weeks with this team

since he got the job. And I think this stretch run is probably going to be the most normal it's been for Steve Nash since he started over there. Except for they probably have a couple home games in a row coming up

that Kyrie won't be able to play. It's like, oh, man, I had my team. What happened? Before we go, I have a lot of Sixers fans in my life. I know you do as well. Yes, of course. Mike Tolan, Jeff Chow, Chris Ryan, Zach Barron. I could keep going

I know a lot of Philly people What should we tell them? Let's say we're trying to make them feel better After tonight Let's say our hearts are in this for two minutes That we didn't just Completely enjoy watching hard and Stink it up after quitting on two different teams

How do we How do we spin tonight? Is it just, hey, man, regular season. Anything can happen. It's one game. You'll be back. What are the bright spots? I think, one, Joel, who's played at a top three level this season.

Oh, that's good. I like that. Yeah, Joel. Joel looked great. He's going to play 42, 43 minutes a game in the playoffs. So, like, the DeAndre thing, as nasty as it is, it's going to be muted in the playoffs because coaches play their best players the most minutes.

When Harden and Joel are on the floor together, the offense looks deadly, lethal, unstoppable, all of those things. And, you know, again, Joel, one of the two or three best defensive players in all of basketball, and you pray that he can anchor things in such a way that he's, you know,

keeping the defense together with duct tape and the offense is so elite that it carries the day. That's your best hope. So, Joel, 15-19 from the free throw line, man. They couldn't keep him off the line. That's probably where I'm done talking about Joel.

He's minus 30 tonight. Five for 17. More sober laddocks for Sixers fans. You know, Maxie, not good tonight, but, you know, really important. He got his feet wet in a game like that. It's going to really help him going forward. Tobias Harrison.

Tobias Harris? He seemed healthy. You don't seem convinced, Bill. I feel like you don't seem convinced. I'm looking for silver linings. Well, I want to ask you, though, because there are silver linings, but I do want to ask you

because the Celtics have looked like world beaters recently. What? I didn't realize. Yeah, I guess you're right. The Celtics have looked like world beaters recently. And you got to be looking at a team like the Sixers like, come on, we can take these guys. Yeah, I felt that way already. Just because I think the Celtics have more depth. And, you know, the problem with the Celtics is I don't want to be peaking right now in mid-March. I want this to

be sustainable. But the good thing with the Celtics is they're beating the shit out of teams. Like, I think when the double digit wins start piling up, you got to start taking whatever seriously. And Tatum, you know, has gone to a lot. At least with Tatum now, they know they have a guy who

whether it's Giannis or whether it's Durant, Embiid, whoever, they at least have somebody who can match baskets with that guy in a big game. I don't know if you watched the Charlotte game the other night. Oh, I sure did. They blew that thing open in the third. Tatum made a couple of threes and all of that. But what I watched was that for like five or six straight possessions,

Charlotte, the ball didn't go past 15 feet. They didn't get the ball past the free throw line because the Celtics are switching everything, keeping everything in front, and they just could get no dribble penetration against them for six, seven possessions in a row. And I'm like, damn, the Celtics defense is legit, and they are just mauling guys,

and this is going to be scary when the playoffs come. Yeah, the East is the most fascinating. I think it's been, I can't even remember the last time. I don't even, I don't even think you can say this century. It's been this fascinating. I think you have to go back to the 90s. You mean the East when the Hawks sent four all-stars? Yeah, the whole thing.

What about when Antoine Walker was in two straight conference finals or whatever that was? You go on through those Pistons, Nets, Pacers years, and then there was a couple. It seemed like there was a potential Miami Detroit thing, but that never really got going in the right way.

KG Celtics never really got going. Then it seemed like, oh, Celtics heat. This will be great. never really got going in the right way. And the KG Celtics never really got going. Then it seemed like, oh, Celtics heat. This will be great. Rondo got hurt in 11. But there's just so many variables. Especially in the matches. But again, even then, Bill, it was three teams. It was the Celtics, the Heat, and the Bulls,

right? When D. Rose was healthy. Now it feels like we have five. Five! Exactly. Maybe even six. This is just way more compelling and intriguing than I can remember in the Eastern Conference. Who would you go with right now? If you had to pick a team. I'm still Milwaukee.

It's just hard for me to pick against Giannis. I just think if all three of their big guys, their important guys are right. I like what they're doing in the crunch time now. They cleaned up so many of the nasty stuff they used to do in crunch time. They're actually running stuff, multiple options off of it. They know who they want to get it to in what spots. Bud has improved as a coach. We don't talk about that enough that coaches can't get better,

and Bud has improved as a coach. Like, we don't talk about that enough that, like, coaches can't get better. And Bud is improved as a coach. I know the depth is something scary to be watched. I just, man, it's hard for me to pick against Giannis. I just can't. They've been my pick forever. Two Sundays ago, I just took them off. I'm like, now I don't have a pick. I don't trust this Bucs team.

Now they've won six straight. The Celts are two back. I think the Celts have to get, I think to the three spot. And the, the key one is getting that play, the three six, which will probably be Cleveland. Cleveland's the team you want to play in the East.

All due respect to Cleveland. They have it. They've had bad injury luck all year. They, they've got a bunch of guys. Young guys, Mobley, rookie wall, the whole thing. So've had bad injury luck all year. They've got to go up in there. And all the guys are young. Young guys. Mobley, Rookie Wall, the whole thing.

So you kind of want to be three. So the Celts right now, it's crazy. They have the same amount of wins as Philly, but two more losses. But it's possible they could flip spots with Philly. All right, we're going to go. Sorry, Sixers fans. We tried our best to do some silver linings. Waz, great to have you back.

Thank you. Hope all is good with you and the fam. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. And I do want to say this. Bill did not call me after the results of the game happened. He said, there's a big Sixers and Nets game. Come on the show.

Want to bring you back, et cetera, et cetera. I'm like, of course, let's do it. And then, of course, the desired outcome happens. And we Want to have, want to bring you back, et cetera, et cetera. I'm like, of course, let's do it. And then of course, the desired outcome happens. And we get to have a victory. But the thing is, by the way, this would have been fun

if the Sixers beat the hell out of the Nets too. Because then we would have been like, holy shit, what do we make of the Nets? Like, that was the great thing about tonight. Whatever the outcome was,

there's going to be something fun to talk about. And what I'm rooting for is great basketball in the playoffs. I hope's going to be something fun to talk about. And what I'm rooting for is great basketball in the playoffs. I hope everybody plays to their capabilities the best, and we just see one of the best playoffs that we had in a while. And James Harden

not quitting on the Sixers, at least until next year. Wow, it's good to see you. Later, y'all. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember.

You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. Our friend Peter Schrager is here. We've had a lot of football stuff happen since the last time he was on the last million dollar picks which we won we finished winning season another winning season for us um russell wilson

got traded i don't know if you heard he got traded at denver um when did you start really hearing the rumblings because it felt like the a week leading up to that trade the rumbling started and there were a lot of teams calling and that usually stuff starts to get up. Yeah. Well, the big trade offer from Washington came out at the combine, but the truth of the matter is senior bowl week, which was a week before even the Super Bowl is when GM George Payton started laying things out with John Schneider, the Seahawks general manager. Now they worked in silence, which I respect. Uh, but by the time we got to combine, it did seem like the writing was on the wall that Russell Wilson was going to be traded this off season, that it would happen in the way that

it did minutes after Rogers came out. It was a coincidence or was it one of those deals where they were waiting on Rogers before they went to option B the Broncos guys swear. It wasn't that this was, Oh, come on. Well, here's the deal. Here's how I have it. Of course they're going to say that now. They're like, oh no, we want a Wilson. We'll let that just stop. Nobody wants you.

I had a lunch with Hackett during the combine, and he's the new head coach of the Broncos, and he's one of Rodgers' closest friends. Now, they were together for two seasons in Green Bay, and in that room, it's him, and it's now offensive coordinator of the Bears, Luke Getze. He was the quarterback's coach Rogers and, and love and, and banker, the, uh, the whole quarterback room. And they're really tight. And I figured on the back end,

tampering or not, Hackett was sending him text messages, was calling, saying, Hey, like, dude, Hackett swears. And you could take it on whatever. It's like, if you know Rodgers, which I do, he says, you don't fuck with him. He went on a 12-day cleanse of no social media and no communication on his phone. And then he took three weeks and he's like, if anything, Rodgers, you start trying to curry to his favor, that would piss him off. And it'd be like, dude, you know, I need my space. I'm going to figure it out. So the love for Rogers from the Broncos was felt, but they also knew they couldn't bank on that. So they were working on this entire secondary plan to get Russell Wilson. And I'll tell you, they made the trade. Wait, hold on. You know, what was great about that story? It was yet another stealth. Aaron Rogers is a weirdo story. I have nobody in my life who's like, don't, don't talk to me for three weeks. You've got to let him unwind. What is he, a cat? Well, I know that he had the wedding on Sunday night. And this is actually like when we write the book of all our NFL stories, like the wedding of Bakhtiari on Sunday night where Aaron Rodgers is officiating and they didn't want anyone to know

the wedding was on Sunday night. Mike Silver tweets out that the wedding is Sunday night. Bakhtiari on his wedding day is tweeting back like, Mike, what are you doing? That's what they're worried about. They get to it and LeFleur is there and LeFleur is in a little bit louder now. They're all in the pot and the pit and everything's happy. And then afterwards, I text LeFleur. I'm like, so is he coming back? And LeFleur is like, I'm not speaking on it because I don't know. And I'm like, gosh, even after the whole wedding of everyone hanging out, like, but he is back. And I'll tell you, he's like an actor. Don't make eye contact with him on the set. Don't look at him. The other part is the money part, right? So, yeah. So the deal comes out and NFL Network's Ian Rappaport has the numbers and it's $200 million, 53 a year, four years. And everyone's reacting.

Rodgers hasn't tweeted since June 7th, I think. And he tweets right after that, I haven't signed a contract. Those numbers are not right. So I think perception matters to him too. He didn't want to look like a greedy, it was about the money. He wants to look as if, Hey, I actually didn't take the most money that was offered because I want to get Devante taken care of. I wanted it. It's all, it's all intertwined to, to this guy. If it wasn't about the money, what was it about? Was it about just some sort of weird psychotic power play? What was it? He was mad. They took Jordan Love and he tortured everyone for two years.

Then they paid him a lot of money and now, now he's happy, but it's not about the money. What was it about then? It was about respect. Well, they respected him.

They were already, he was already one of the highest paid quarterbacks in the league. He won the MVP two years in a row. And they went out and they proactively

hired Tom Clements, who's a 68 year old quarterback coach who he had years ago and had been retired last year. How about Randall Cobb? They dragged him out from wherever he was. I think it's also like, you know, and the counter to it is, okay, well, if that's not the money and you're upset that the wrong numbers were released, what are the numbers? Was it higher or lower?

What are the numbers? We need a club of the pandemic made me weird. We need that club. And I'd like to induct Aaron Rogers, who might've already been weird, but the pandemic made him super weird. So back to Denver though. So there's two camps. One is they bought too high on Wilson. He's not the same guy anymore. Then there's the other camp building, which is Wilson was kind of checked out. He didn't want to get hurt last year. He's saving his body.

He's going to be running around like he did in the old days in Denver. He's got something to prove. He wants to make the Pro Bowl, make the Super Bowl. He's going to shove it in Seattle's face. What camp are you in? You can't be in both. I'm in the ladder.

You're in the FU camp. I think he comes out and it's awesome. I honestly do. I think that it's been 10, it was 10 years to the day since Peyton Manning's free agent visit to Denver when they traded for Russell Wilson. And from everyone I've talked to in Denver,

it's like he got that trade in and there's finally a cloud lifted off the building that's been there for a decade. We've got our quarterback. And when Peyton got there, it wasn't just Peyton Manning. He brought Wes Welker with him when the Patriots and him had an issue with the numbers. And it was like, all right, why don't you join me? And then the next year, it was DeMarcus Ware and it was Aqib Tlaib. And they kept on adding players and Emmanuel Sanders.

I think after seeing what the Rams did with Stafford, which the same commentary was, they gave up too much. How are you going to trade all your first-round picks for Stafford who's never won anything? I think the deal is now, a team like Denver, which is in a football town,

to get a quarterback was the most important thing this offseason. Not only did they get a quarterback, they get a new head coach, they get a new offense, they get some life into this building. How about an offense? Remember last year we picked the Broncos one of those weeks and they ran

like 38 plays. That was brutal. And, and Fangio was punting on fourth and two and third. And that was brutal. I think it's, it's a whole fresh new perspective, um,

to football. And even before they got Russell Wilson, like the Broncos already sold out all their season tickets. And I'll add in nothing with Denver. Like they're going to be for sale in a couple of months. 5 billion. I'm sorry. I have 5 billion on Fandle. Yeah. 5 billion over under 5 billion. Yeah. The, the, the word I heard at the combine was like four, five, four, six, but five. Well, you always got to bump whatever the the word is, bump at 10%. Think about it. Two rich guys get involved. That's it. It becomes Dick swinging contest. And if it's four or five with drew lock and Teddy Bridgewater, maybe it becomes a $500 million, you know, or five, whatever it is, when you start throwing in a Russell Wilson as your quarterback.

So I think they went all in, they knew the score and they'll deal with not having a couple, a ninth overall pick, whoever that guy goes on to be like, they won't regret it. Well, you and I like Denver's talent last year. I love Javante Williams. So I had an every fantasy team. I'm still recovering from, I don't understand how he didn't have like 2000 all purpose yards. They're, you know, played Melvin Gordon more and stuff like that. We liked their receivers, poor Judy, where it's like, we have no idea how good he is because of the quarterbacks he had the last couple years. I don't feel like they gave up too much,

but I also like the trade for Seattle because I think they were just at a dead end. That's it. It was end of the road. You got to reboot it. The problem is, and you were just at, you were in Indy. I was jealous because I loved my week in Indy for the Super Bowl 10 years ago. The problem now is you start talking yourself into one of the QBs at number nine.

When like, you know, Danny Kelly, who does a great job for us, does the ringer draft guide. His top three quarterbacks were like 22, 23, 31 in the draft. But this is what happens in the NFL draft where, especially when you don't have the awesome QB class, you start talking yourself into it. And then all of a sudden you have EJ Manuel

going 16th. And my theory if I'm a Seattle fan is we traded Wilson, got this stuff. Somehow we didn't get Patrick Sertan. But now we use that ninth pick for a QB that's 10, 12 spots too high, maybe. but now we use that ninth pick for a QB. That's 10, 12 spots too high.

Maybe 50, 50 shot is good. Maybe it's 40, 60. And if that QB doesn't pan out with the pressure on now, the trades, the disaster. But what did you hear in the combine between the, uh,

the two quarterbacks? Yeah. Well, the, the, well, first off with Seattle, the other issue is you have a 70 year old head coach. Is he looking to do a whole rebuild with a rookie quarterback right now so you start wondering

is that is that what it is because i don't think pete's going anywhere so that's when you start thinking a veteran quarterback makes more sense and who's that veteran is it drew save that for the next segment yeah we we have a whole we're gonna go through that um malik willis threw the ball really well the kid out of Liberty. And everyone did flips about a long throw. And I'm always here to kind of temper things down that everyone I speak to says, yes, he's got a huge arm and he was more accurate than we expected. But I don't know if he's a top 10 picket.

Kenny Pickett, people want to roll their eyes about the hand size thing. He had eight and eight and a half inch hands. And we laugh, oh, hand size. What's had eight and a half inch hands and we laugh. Oh, hand size. What's that really mean? You know, whatever. Guess what? He would be the quarterback with the smallest hands in the league.

The second he steps on the field, no quarterback in the league is small. Not even Goff. Not even Goff. So it does matter. And you go to his numbers at Pitt and he had 38 fumbles. And maybe that's because his hands aren't as big as other quarterbacks. You know, the guy that actually impressed a lot and he didn't become a top 10 pick is the quarterback at a cincinnati ritter desmond ritter who has 44 career college wins third most all-time oh sounds like my kind of guy already right let me talk him into who also ran a sub 540 who also

showed improvement in his technique from when he played at Cincinnati to the combine, which means he's already been working with a quarterback trainer. And I'll give you this, the one that will get you through the, jumping out of your seat and making this guy your guy. I'm friendly with a lot of the Jets coaches.

They had him at the senior bowl. And the story I got, and whether it could be elaborated or not, we'll see. The story we got is and whether it could be elaborated or not, we'll see. The story we got is that in the Senior Bowl, they're losing. And it's like, all right, final drive of the game, the Senior Bowl exhibition game on a Saturday. And Desmond Ritter looks at the coaching staff and says,

I got this, guys. And takes them right down the field and scores. And all the kids are like, I love that guy. Holy shit. But yeah, Danny has him 33rd. His comp was shades of Daniel Jones, but in a good way.

I like that, Danny. So that means basically Daniel Jones, if Daniel Jones just didn't put the ball on the ground every two and a half quarters or throw it to the other team, I guess that would be Daniel Jones in a good way. He's not Dak, but I'll go back to what we said about Dak. And I was one of them because Paxton Lynch was taken before Dak

and Connor Cook was taken for that. And I remember the thing with Dak is we all watched him on Saturdays and he would win, but it was like, his body isn't great. His throwing motion's a little weird. And yet he just happened to win a bunch of games in the sec. Like we do this in the draft and we do, we look at Trubisky and you say, oh my gosh, look at Trubisky's numbers of the 40 and what he could throw. Trubisky had 17 starts. Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama.

We do this. So Desmond Ritter taking Cincinnati from a no-name-nothing team to the college football playoff and winning 44 games and being a three-year captain. There's something to be said for that. Three-year captain. Three-year captain be said for that. Three-year captain.

Three-year captain. I like winning. I like calm demeanors. And I like when the other guys on the team talk about what a great guy he is. Married as high school. I wouldn't even look at the combine stuff. Do you at least have these three things? Now I'm going to look at you.

Married as high school sweetheart. They have a kid, like an adult. I don't know. Desmond Ritter. I don't know about getting married too early. That might be a checkmark against him. Your red flag. Hey, we're going to go through all the different quarterback situations.

Just who actually needs one. And it's interesting because on the one hand, like the, we have the, well, we'll talk about the Wentz trade and then we'll take a break and we'll talk about all the people available. But the Wentz trade to me was flabbergasting because A, I don't think he's a winning quarterback. Like if I'm Indy, I would just, if I can get rid of him and get off his salary, I'm just doing that. If I'm Washington, I'm taking on this giant salary number and I'm giving up draft picks? Why am I giving up anything?

Indy should have been giving Washington draft picks in basketball. There's no, like if that was an NBA trade, there's no way the team trading Wentz would have gotten draft picks because they would have been so fired up to get cap space. They would have given up draft picks to get the cap space.

And then you have dumbass Washington who says, no, here's some third round picks. We'd love to roll the dice with 29-year-old Carson Wentz, who is who he is in every sense of the word. I thought that trade was appalling. It would have been the worst thing of the offseason if you're a Washington fan, except for the fact that everybody's going to call them the commies, which I think is like the craziest thing I still don't understand. And now we're in a conflict with Russia. They're the Washington commies. Anyway,

why was Wentz worth anything? All right. Let's let me empty the bag on the Wentz stuff because, um, I was at the combine last week and the word I got was that there is no chance Carson Wentz is taking a snap for the Indianapolis Colts next year. And I'm like, all right, let's... No, no. The owner will not allow that. That's how bad that season ended for Indianapolis with the loss to Jacksonville. That Earth Day was basically like, this guy can't be the quarterback. I don't care who's the quarterback.

This guy can't be. That's how we felt with Million Dollar Picks, too, after't be the quarterback. I don't care. I don't care who's the quarterback. This guy can't be. That's how we felt with million dollar picks too. After the Jacksonville game, we lost the, I'm out. You and I are like, we're out. Everyone's out. We also had them in week 17 against the Raiders at home where that was an inexplicable loss also, but whatever. Um, the Philly guys, when, when they were traded Wentz and they got the first round pick, a lot of people thought like, how could you only get one first round pick? But they were thrilled. They knew. So then you start saying, all right, what's going to be?

And then you look at what Washington has going on. And since Rivera's gotten there, right? Like Alex Smith, Heineke, this rotating door of Fitzpatrick, but he can't play because he's hurt. Whatever it is, they looked at it and said, if you look at the numbers and you look at the evaluations, we'd rather risk on a guy who might have some issues upstairs, who's 29 years old and will be making less than $30 million than going through with a bunch of this third tier stuff. Because at one point, Carson Wentz was drafted second overall, and he hasn't gotten smaller and his arm hasn't gotten worse. So you take another whack at it. You say, let us get our hands on it. Now,

taking on the full salary, that one hurts. I don't know what the deal was with that, but they'd rather do that than completely miss, swing and miss. And then, hey, we're coaching with another quarterback who we know we can't win a Super Bowl with. Our guy Coward thought it was great. I know. He all of a sudden became like Wentz. I think Coward's like, can we drug test Coward? What's going on with him? He's like, he's better than Jimmy G.

It's like, what? I was shocked. Who would win a playoff game ever? Colin all of a sudden went all in on Wentz in the last 24 hours, and I almost commended it. That's the hottest thing. I think his account's been hacked. I just thought there were so many better options. One last thing for you, because Indianapolis, they make that trade for Wentz, and now they're without Wentz, and now they're searching desperately for a quarterback. And

everyone says it's going to be Jimmy G, but just hold on. This will be their fifth quarterback in five years since Andrew Luck left. And I know on very good sources that Matthew Stafford was willing to go to Indy. That was one of the teams that he told Detroit. And Indy did not offer the same stuff that the Rams did. And obviously by the time Stafford and McVay have their love affair in Cabo, it was a done deal. But like Indy was an option and Stafford said, a hundred percent, I'll go to Indy and Indianapolis kind of sat back there and we're like, well was a done deal. But Indy was an option. And Stafford said, 100%, I'll go to Indy. And Indianapolis sat back there and were like, well, let's see. And it's one of those fork in the road

moments where if Indy just was proactive and said, no, we love Matthew Stafford, let's go get him. Would they be the team with Stafford and Jonathan Taylor and DeForest Buckner and Darius Leonard? And now all of a sudden, they're the major players. Right now, as we wake up this morning, they don't have a quarterback. You know who it should be. If this was wrestling, you know what would happen. Who walks in that room? Andrew Luck. It's like, oh my god! It's Andrew Luck's music! My god!

He's back! But everybody, what has he been gone? Four years? Yeah. It was 2017 he walked away. His body's gotta be feeling pretty good. 18. Maybe. Would you call them if you're, if you're, if you're the coach, you at least like, it's like FaceTime him, right? See what he's doing. He's probably in the mountains somewhere hiking something. It's actually crazy. I had a friend, um, forget who it was at the combine

who said that they saw Andrew Luck at Starbucks and not as like taking a meeting with like a team. Like he lives in Indianapolis and was just at Starbucks. It's a guy. And they're like, he's like, Andrew, what's up? And he's like, what's up, man? And it's like, I mean, he retired because his body was so banged up because they would never get him a fucking offensive line. Now they have the offensive line. They have the running game. I don't know. I would have called them We're going to take a break And then we're going to play

Quarterback roulette All right Quarterback roulette Here's who I have for openings We have 25 teams That have a quarterback A couple teams That might be looking around

But 25 teams That on paper Have a quarterback Seven that do not Pittsburgh Houston Indy New Orleans Carolina Tampa And Seattle around, but 25 teams that on paper have a quarterback, seven that do not. Pittsburgh, Houston, Indy, New Orleans, Carolina, Tampa, and Seattle. First question on Houston. Watson, I know we're going to find out more for tomorrow. I'm going to talk about Watson. Might as well talk about the Ukrainian conflict. I have no idea what's going to happen.

Houston, is Davis Mills possibly their guy? Do they just look at it and go, yeah, Davis Mills, we're good. Possibly unless, unless Nick Casario, who was part of the group that drafted and brought in Jimmy G blows the Niners away. And maybe that's the place for Jimmy G, but I would think Davis Mills showed himself really well. You look at all the numbers from all those first round picks, um, short of Mac Jones, he had as good a numbers as anybody. And I think he really showed that he can be a quarterback in this league for now. That makes no sense for Jimmy G. If Jimmy G needs to go to a team that is one confident quarterback away from potentially being in the Final Four. So if you're Jimmy G, let's say Pittsburgh and Indy are on the table.

This is a Steve Cerruti question. Where would you go? Where would you want to go if you're Jimmy G? They go to you and they say, hey, we can get a second round pick from Pittsburgh. We get a second round pick from Indy.

How about you pick? You've been a good soldier this whole time. That's a great choice. We inexplicably traded three first round picks for Trey Lance. What does Cerruti say?

I'm curious what you guys say and then I'll weigh in. Cerruti, where would you go, Cerruti? Gotta go to Indy Gotta go to Indy. Weaker division right? I don't have to deal with Joe Burrow I don't have to deal with Lamar Jackson coming back I don't have to deal with the Browns. Good defense. Definitely Indy I also have Indy

I think they're closer to winning the Super Bowl I think their quarterback single-handedly prevented them from winning the Super Bowl and some wide receiver injuries too but I think that's the team that has to look at themselves and go, if our quarterback was better, we actually would have done some damage last season. The thing with Jimmy's contract is he's basically on a one-year deal. So he's going to hit free agency after this thing.

So if he could choose between those two, that's nice to have the choice while you're under contract. And it's kind of like a pseudo free agency. I think both those options would be really strong. I would also look at New Orleans as a possibility. I think that might be an option if they go out strong for them and they're willing to trade them within the conference. And I think they would be. And then I think Tampa Bay is a possibility also. All those teams might be in the Jimmy G market, which makes all those Colts fans saying, all right, now we're going to get Jimmy. Like, no, look, he might want to go there and you might want them.

But like San Francisco is the ones who will decide where Jimmy G goes. So Pittsburgh and Indy are certainly in the conversation, but it's more than that, which makes the trades that are happening on it. It's a little tricky because San Francisco kind of holds the keys on the next domino for all these guys. And there's no way they keep him? No way they keep him. You know why there's no way they keep him? Because Tom Brady's going to be their quarterback next year. We've been on it since January.

It feels like there's a little bit of a pissing match now with Bruce Arians, who I think maybe caught wind of it, and he's thrown some stuff out like, well, it's going to be hard for him to get to San Francisco or whatever he said when he's under contract with us. It was very odd last week. So I had on Jason Light, the GM of the Buccaneers on Good Morning Football the morning before their media availability. And he rolled out the red carpet and said, we are going to leave the light on, no pun intended. We're going to do whatever needed. Brady, we would love you. Please come back. And I think that was the strategy PR wise.

Then Bruce gets on the mic and he's got a little loosey goosey and he's like, not trading them. No way. He's like, all right, that's going to piss off Brady that you said that publicly. And then when he was with the locals, BA comes out there and he's like, they're like, well, why is all this Brady coming back talk coming out? He's like, well, some guys like having their names heard in the media. And I'm like, if you're trying to like Tom Brady, and I'm not sure where Brady and Arians were by the end of this thing, but like in a bad place, I know from the Buccaneers side, Sons Arians comments, their game plan right now is please, please, please, please, please, Tom, come back. And option B being please, please, please, Tom, come back. And option B being please, please, please, Tom, come back. That's where they're at right now.

So I think at the end of the day, if Tom Brady came to the Glazer family, who he just brought two playoff appearances in a Super Bowl and said, I'd really like to be traded. Can you do me that solid? I brought you guys all Super Bowl rings in the best 36 months that this organization has ever had. I can't see the Glazer family being like, well, you're under contract, Tom, and we're just going to let you sit in purgatory instead. That said, I don't see Brady coming back to anybody. I think he takes this year.

So what's he doing then? I'd like to add him to the pandemic has made you weird club because the things he's doing with Jim Gray, I don't know if he's just trying to get people to talk about him, but it's very atypical of how Brady normally operated. And going on Fred Couples' podcast and letting it fly and talking openly.

Is Brady going to get bored? That's the question everyone was asking. He's addicted to football. He doesn't want to go into politics. The broadcast teams all are going after him. I don't know if he'll be good at it, but he also hasn't really engaged in that. So he won't be good at it. What does Brady want to do? He wants to go to San Francisco. Just everyone just needs to admit it. Do the Brady Jimmy G trade. Somebody throws in a pick and

we're good to go. And the league's more fun. My money, my money right now is that he is not playing next year and then we'll reassess. But if they could find a way, it'd be really interesting. Do you think there's a chance that he does the, I'm not playing, but I'm in great shape and October rolls around and, oh, this guy's hurt or, oh, this team needs a QB?

I don't think we're done. Whether the season starts with him on the field or not, I don't think we're done with Speck. Unlike Andrew Luck, who we're saying four years removed out of Starbucks might be like, I think all next year, anytime a quarterback gets injured or a team is struggling and has a connection to Brady, we're going to hear about it. And let's say if Watson is somehow exonerated or that that is behind us by the end of this month for whatever reason, and he becomes available as a trade asset. Does anyone know what he's worth? It's got to be less than Russell Wilson.

Russell Wilson went for two firsts. So it's got to be less than that. Is it one first? Well, there's two different pieces to it. The league still hasn't weighed in. Yeah. The league, God forbid they weigh in. The league could say they're suspended for a year based on what we know. So I don't know if you could build that into a trade and a contract. Say like, you know, we get these picks back. If it is, whatever, that's one thing. Second thing is, there's great emphasis on the rise of women in the NFL.

And there's a great emphasis on, we've got female owners now in Seattle, female owners in Buffalo, female owners. The wives of many owners are now very powerful. We've got coaches. You better have the appetite in the stomach to looking to your employees and saying, well, not only are we bringing this guy on, but we're pinning all of our careers to this player. So I'm interested in which franchises have the appetite for it. And you can say, well, hey, if you have three years of crappy quarterback play, it's football. I don't think that's the case in 2022. I think it really does matter. And I'm not going to be a cynic on it. I'm going to be actual. I think a lot of these

teams are like, you know what? It's not worth it. We'd rather have a workplace environment where we feel we don't have to deal with that. It'll come down to desperation as always. So I have Brady as my number one. Here's my available QB rankings. I love Brady one, Jimmy G two. I think Watson's like a conditional three. Then drop off. I think Jameis is four. Four over. Yeah.

Okay. We'll hear the rest. Mariota. Huntley. Huntley. So explain to me if I'm looking at if I'm looking for a QB

and I'm looking at Bridgewater McCoy Andy Dalton Tyler Heineke Trevor Simeon Tyrod Taylor Chase Keenum

Trubisky why aren't they offering Baltimore a second round pick for Huntley because I don't think Baltimore would trade him he is their ultimate leverage right now they're in very I'm preferring Baltimore second round pick for Huntley. Because I don't think Baltimore would trade him. He is their ultimate leverage right now.

They're in very weird spot with Lamar, where Lamar is now going into yet another offseason without a contract. And they don't look like they're in any rush to pay him. And they finally have a leverage point that we've got this guy behind you who won games and might've played better than you at the end of the season when he was on the field. So I don't think they're in it. I don't even think he's on the block. Not that he's the

most valuable player in the league, but I think in their particular situation and in their offense that he works very well in, I don't think this is the off season you trade Huntley until your Lamar situation is figured out. More realistic to be traded over the next three weeks, Huntley or Lamar? Answers neither, but I think it's easier to trade Lamar than it might be not easier, but it might be more lucrative for them for what they do to trade Lamar than Huntley. I don't think Lamar is being traded, but you look to a Seattle, you look to a, you know, a Carolina, you say, give us four first round picks for Lamar. They might consider it. Four? I think that's too many. I don't know. Three or four? This is where we're at right now. Picks are being minimized, especially with the lack of quarterbacks in this draft where

if you're Carolina- Do you think he's worth four first rounders? I wouldn't pay that. I think if Lamar Jackson were to be traded right now, he would fetch three first round picks. I do. I don't think he, I don't think you get more than the Wilson trade. Cause Wilson, you got to factor in Wilson was like what he was making mid to high twenties. Yep. Lamar, you trade for him. You immediately have to pay him 45, 46 million a year. No, I think 40 would be about the number, but that's still incredible. Eat up the salary cap, but you're also getting a fresh rebrand for your team. And you've got Lamar Jackson, former MVP. I think there's a value to

the Lamar brand too, that a lot of these teams that are just in purgatory and mediocrity for years would love. I'm worried about long-term, how healthy is he going to be? Fair. It's not like Josh Allen's 6'5". I'm not worried about Josh Allen staying healthy. And Josh Allen's getting better every year. Lamar was good two years ago, was great three years ago, and last year was hurt. You could make a case if you have the right desperate team for Lamar

and you're Baltimore and you're looking at it and you're going, do I want to pay Lamar $44 million a year or Huntley $1 million a year? And I could have all that extra cap space. I'm getting extra draft capital. And by the way, if we're going to do a fantasy draft of teams that would aggressively look at this in a different kind of way, the Ravens are in the top three, right? They're the most advanced metrics heavy organization we probably have. So if they crunch the numbers and they're like,

all right, from a value standpoint, we should actually go this way versus once we pay Lamar, that's it. And the success rate of these organizations, I think Arizona's in the same situation with Kyla Murray, where if you're paying your quarterback 40 to 45 million a year in a salary cap league, man, Dallas is another one with Dak.

That becomes really hard to have a good team. Dallas just waved Amari Cooper. And yet time and time and time again, these teams give the quarterback the money because the alternative is being in, you know, you're in the Pine Barrens with... Yeah, but how many guys are actually worth that money, right? Like Rodgers, definitely. Mahomes. Rodgers, Mahomes. Josh Allen. Herbert and Burrow eventually.

Yep. Is there anybody else that you could say like this? Kirk Cousins is about to make 45 this year. And I don't think, you know, and they could say they're going to trade him or try to restart. But like a lot of people around the league are like, hey, the Vikings at least have a quarterback.

They know who they got, you know? Well, I still like my at least have a quarterback. They know who they got, you know? Well, I still like my Kirk Cousins plan. He's just new team every year for Kirk. One year, 38 million goes to the new team. Like Pittsburgh, how excited would they be to have Kirk Cousins?

They'd be thrilled. How about Indy? This is great. Indy, whoever. Can I give you a, not a conspiracy theory, but a rumor that was floated to me that hasn't been anywhere that I think I just want you to noodle with a little bit. I can't wait. McDaniels and Ziegler who are

New England born and bred. They come over, they take over the Raiders. They bring champ Kelly from Denver with them. They've got this great vibe right now. Um, everyone's saying that anyone in that organization, like everyone's into this McDaniels, who did he love as a backup to Tom Brady for many, many years? Is that the place where they go and Ziggler, the GM was with Jimmy G too. So a little roulette where we do a little Jimmy G to Vegas. Then car goes on the market and then you get picks for car. And this is where we're at with the NFL right now, where every team is texting every reporter and texting me and saying, here's something to consider. Don't have it on any sort, but here's something to consider. And then you put it out there and then people start noodling around on it. And it's kind of why

in the heart of NCAA tournament and baseball is having their negotiation, like football is king because all this stuff, it's not that far off from reality. Russell Wilson was just traded. It happens. So Josh tries to get Jimmy G. Is the price a second or is it higher? No, it's about a second. And Jimmy G would be thrilled to go to play with Josh and get back together with him. Plus we'd get Jimmy G in Vegas, which would be a blue. I mean, he's basically there anyway. So then Derek Carr for one year on a cheap deal, what is he making? Like 20, 21 for one year and a cheap deal what is he making like 2021 for one year and then you got a little higher final year of his contract I think it's more than that it's not it's not more than 25 it's cheap though yeah it's less than Wilson so then you're a team like you're Pittsburgh

and you get Carr you're doing backflips because you're a pretty good team you're Indianapolis you get Derek Carr come on you're you're the Carolina Panips because you have a pretty good team. You're Indianapolis. You get Derek Carr. Come on. You're the Carolina Panthers. Suddenly you get Derek Carr. Like Derek Carr is a top 15 quarterback in the league. The best team to take over

would be Pittsburgh because after the last two years of Roethlisberger the guy who comes in and can actually be competent for four quarters is going to seem like he's John Elway in the late 90s. So I said, Pittsburgh, Houston, Indy, New Orleans,

Carolina, Tampa, Seattle, are the teams we know need it, need a QB. I have another category called looking around. Okay. Is Miami looking around? Are they at the bar with like a Jack and Coke in front of them? Kind of like seeing if anyone's going to sit down. I don't think so. So I got to sit down with their coach. You've sure seen the media. Um, he is everything you could imagine in more media wise. This guy's going to be either a superstar or a punchline. I'm not sure, but Mike McDaniel brought it at the combine. And the key is, I think he's, I think he's fun and I think he's funny. And I just don't want him to be the punchline of the joke because he's also brilliant.

And he's got this great mind. And I like the fact they went outside the box and didn't just hire a football guy. He's way more than that. But he also drew up that offense in a lot of ways for Debo Samuel. And the thing he kept on stressing to me when we were on air on Good Morning Football, but then we also hung afterwards,

is that my challenge, my goal is to get the very most out of every quarterback I've ever had. And he had Robert Griffin in Washington. He had Matt Ryan in Atlanta. He had Jimmy G in San Francisco. And he's like, Tua has so much untapped potential. He had four different offensive coordinators at his time in Miami. He had three different offensive lines. So he's selling me on the Tua thing. And I'm like, if they were sniffing around, I don't think that the coaches would be trying this hard.

On selling on Tua. So Steve Ross was like, Tua's our QB. Tua's our guy. Tannehill in Tennessee? Hmm. Think so. You think he's there next year?

I'm 80% sure he's there, but you say sniffing around, I can't for certain say that if there was some major blockbuster done that they would 100% be out of it. A little harder for them to trade him because would they give him a contract a year ago? Yeah, two years ago.

The year Brady got one. Yeah, two years ago. Vegas, we already covered. Danny Dimes and the Giants. Not sure there's a market. We know that they made a run at Wilson. Was that accurate? I don't think so.

Two firsts, Saquon and Daniel Jones? I didn't hear that. And I think they want to see what Daniel Jones has. I mean, yes. We got to see what Daniel Jones has. We don't know yet. We have no idea. So it's only been three straight years.

I mean, what could be lurking inside of Daniel Jones? Who knows? I think the excuses are done. I mean, the second and the funniest thing was someone said like Joe Burrow just made the Super Bowl after getting sacked a million times. Like, I don't want to hear that Daniel Jones has a bad offensive line and that's why he's being held back. Like at some point, just go do it, you know, and

this is the year. They'll know. Trubisky to them, that's been thrown around there because Daybol. It can't. No. I don't think it's Trubisky. Trubisky has to go to a small football city. He cannot go to another big market. He cannot be in New York, Chicago, Pittsburgh.

I'd be surprised. The Giants are, I mean, this is to, I actually met Danny Heifetz for the first time. Great dude. And he was talking Giants with me. I think he's a Giants fan. And he said, Giants are in shave salary cap mode. Over the next few days, a lot of interns are going to be released. I don't see them making a big swing at quarterback.

We need him to go. Carolina's perfect for Trubisky for a year. Just kind of slide under the radar. Minnesota? We sure know that at the bar. Ordering a second Mai Tai. All right. So Kirk is set to make

45, I think, this year. I'm not going to say it's a prove-it year, but here's my info on Minnesota. When Kevin O'Connell was interviewing for that job,

and that is a really coveted job because those owners spend money, there's great resources, that fan base is amazing, and they have the best training facility in the entire NFL right now, this new one they built in Eagan. When he was interviewing, I could tell you that Cousins was a big part of what he was talking about because they were together in Washington and Cousins really made it obvious that he was the guy that he would prefer as the head coach and he ended up

the head coach. So I would be surprised if they were to ship Cousins in the final year of this contract. I also would be surprised if Kirk took a contract restructure. That's not what he's ever done, and Kirk Cousins is like, you guys paid me this. I'm going to make it. That's it. So Justin Jefferson will be demanding a trade soon. Detroit? I mean, they have four drinks in them.

But it could be another golf year. They might run it back. I think it might be. Detroit? I mean, they have four drinks in them. But it could be another golf year. They might run it back. I think it might be. Wow! It might be another golf year. This is great. I can't wait until he causes us three team tees next October.

They won three of their last five games. They are so riding high. Oh my God. What team could win three of their last five and be riding high? Riding high. It's all about culture and all about that stuff. As of now, Goff's the quarterback. Okay.

Extension decisions. Baltimore, we think that drags on. I think so. I think they're they're too disciplined to either panic or overpay Lamar. We've just never seen them do it. I don't see them doing it.

They did it once with Flacco. It was the classic. They won a Super Bowl with them. They kind of had to and they regretted it the whole time. Arizona? Kyler Murray? Look, when he came out with that Instagram screed, the agent,

Eric Burkhardt, I think the feeling was a little bit of, all right, I'm doing this for my client and we're all, pay him now or else. And I could tell you the Cardinals side of it kind of was like, or else. I don't think they moved mountains to make it happen right then and there. And they extended the GM and the coach, so they clearly cast their vote. And I talked to Cliff a bunch about it, and he's like, me and Steve, the GM,

we're tied to Kyler. We both staked our careers to him. We want Kyler there. But this situation's tricky because why does he need to be paid now when Lamar Jackson's won an MVP and is a year older and he hasn't been paid? Or Mahomes won Super Bowl MVP and still wasn't paid.

I don't think Kyler's going to get the day he wants it, but they obviously want to extend him and they want to make it happen. That's another one. I don't think he's worth more than Russell Wilson in a trade. What's the the market for kyler murray i don't know i said it on your show i think over million dollar picks that he would get like three first round picks but i don't know after the way that season ended i'm not sure there's a long line for kyler no way i think i think the wilson thing in a weird way set the market a little bit here's another dude cardinals owner

michael bidwell is like it's like a family-owned business. This isn't Kroenke or this isn't Steven Ross. We're like, it's just sometimes where you play matters. And like Cincinnati's not going to rush to pay Joe Burrow the second. It's a family-owned business.

They don't do it that way. So I don't see the Cardinals rushing at the timeline that Kyler Murray and his agent want. All right, this is fun. Before we go, how close were we to McVay just joining the ringer? I don't know if we could have competed

with Amazon on the TV side, but I did feel like it was in play for like a split second. Was it like just a Matt Stafford guilt trip? Like he would have done TV, then he could have done pods for us. Everyone would have been happy. He would have definitely. No stress for coaching.

Flying Coach was literally the audition tape that helped get him the $100 million deals that you're offering. And yet we didn't get referenced in one article, in one Andrew Marchand New York Post. Yeah, where were you, Andrew Marchand, John O'Ran? John O'Ran, Sports Business Journal. I'm getting out of here.

But truthfully, the Rams have Stan Kroenke as their owner, and he's got these billions of dollars. And it's like, he'll get you any resource you want. And Amazon has trillions. So if money was the issue, they were willing to pay Sean and he chose to coach. So that's where it ended up in the end. And I think if Stafford is to call it quits, if Donald is to call it quits, maybe it's a different story, but he's running it back one more time. And unfortunately, I'm not sure the future of Flying Coach because he's getting

married this summer and he's going to be dealing with that the whole time and a honeymoon and whatever else. So Bill, I think we were close. We just needed to jump in. We need to offer him a little bit more, but it wasn't even the money. I don't know what we could have done. I never felt like he was leaving because he made such a commitment to Stafford. It's true. It's kind of shitty to just go, all right, I'll see you later. It's true. Thanks for the Superbowl. I'm going to go work for Amazon now. Thanks though. Good luck.

The canary in the coal mine on this one also was that while all this stuff was going on, he was really heavily recruiting this guy, Liam Cohen, who was the offensive coordinator at Kentucky, who has a good deal. And he was like, yo, O'Connell's leaving. We need you. I can get you this much money. While all these rumors were going on and I was talking to Liam and he's like, Sean is being really positive about me going. Is actually good? I'm like, Sean would not be courting you if he wasn't planning on being there. He wasn't courting you to uproot your life to come to LA. So, uh, he's not going anywhere for now, but next off season, who knows? Maybe we could be talking about this again. Peter Schrager, come back next month for the draft. We'll chop it up

again. Good to see you as always. Thank you. Great to see you. Thank you, sir. All right. Matt Bellany is here from Puck. We launched a new podcast with him that officially launches on Monday.

It's called The Town. It is about Hollywood and the industry. He's been on here a couple of times talking about that stuff that seemed like a natural progression. What was the feedback? Are people nervous that you have a podcast now? What were people saying? Generally, it was pretty nice. I got a lot of pitches.

Hey, have me on. A lot of questions as to whether I know you. I'm like, yeah, I know him. I'm more curious what you got as feedback. Because nobody's going to talk shit to me. They're going to say to you, uh, this guy's dangerous. Why have him? No, it was positive. It was like, this is good. This is a podcast that should exist, which is why we launched it. We

want to, that's always a good sign. Yeah. We want to talk about different topics. We're gonna talk about a couple things today that are along the lines of things you'll probably talk about. One thing that we both had, because I made a little list, you made a little list. It does feel like we're moving into an era with the streamers, specifically Amazon and Apple, but maybe even Netflix a little bit too. HBO Max is doing well. I don't know if they're panicking yet, but there was so much money spent for, I don't know, four or five years there where people trying to prove that, you know, not only could they have credibility in the TV and movie market, but that they can compete for the biggest product. There's some dick swinging stuff with trying to get projects, prices going crazy. I think the sense now is there's going to be some scaling back. What have you heard on this and who's doing the scaling back? I think that sense now is there's going to be some scaling back. What have you heard on this? And who's doing the scaling back? was kind of swinging their dicks around saying, oh, you know, we're in this game, but now you're hearing it from different companies. You know, this past week we heard the CEO of Paramount,

which has Paramount plus they were going to do a movie a week. And now they're like, oh, you know, that's going to be a movie every other week. And they're pulling back a little bit on the spending because ultimately this is a stock market game. Netflix totally changed the game and they proved that if you could keep growing your subscribers month after month, that Wall Street would just keep your stock price going way, way up because they're like, oh, ultimately you're going to own this market. Everybody is going to subscribe to Netflix. Then you can just turn the profit machine on. And Netflix still, they have 222 million subscribers around the world they're by far the leader in this category but earlier this year they announced a slowdown in their subscriber numbers and the stock just

immediately hit an absolute wall and people are like wait a second maybe there aren't 500 million people in the world that want to subscribe to netflix maybe that number is a lot smaller and well they but they bumped the price too That was the other thing that scared people, right? Well, that scared consumers. Wall Street actually likes that. It shows that you are powerful enough to raise your prices. Like when Amazon raised prices of Amazon Prime, they're like, great, we love it. And that's showing that you have pricing power.

But consumers don't like it. And it's it's impacting subscriber numbers potentially. But Netflix has already started pulling back on some of the spending i mean i hear it all over hollywood like they're just not doing those outrageous deals they're not spending 30 million dollars on a tiny movie that should cost five million dollars to make they're you know they're making exceptions obviously you know movies like don't look up which is a hundred billion dollar art house movie like that probably shouldn't exist in the form that it does. But Netflix was like, fuck it, we're doing it. We didn't have Leo

DiCaprio on the service. He was the last holdout. Now we do. So, you know, Netflix will spend when they need to, but they are I've heard from many people pulling back. I think Paramount's another one that's pulling back even HBO. I mean,, I mean, you reference them as doing great. They are doing great on subscribers, but the CEO that's coming in to run the company, they're merging with Discovery, he's been talking about not breaking the bank. He wants to spend judiciously.

He said, we're going to compete, but we're not going to go completely crazy because he says, if HBO has 10 shows that are great, how much value do we get if they have 15 shows that are great? Like, is there that much marginal value between doing something really good and just going nuts? And that's a big change because for the last five years, everybody's been going nuts. I mean, if they look at what Disney did, they were like, you know what? You want 10 Marvel shows?

Fuck it. We're doing 10 Marvel shows. Like, I don't know that that's going to happen at that level going forward hbo is interesting because they've had two of the biggest hits they've created this century just happened back to back right i the euphoria stuff was nuts it really is never i never expected that show to balloon like it did it's that they said last week it's their second biggest show other than Game of Thrones since 2004, which is peak Sopranos time. So you have that.

And then you have Succession, which captured the zeitgeist in a way that they haven't had a drama do in five years. Yeah, I mean, Succession is the awards kind of, you know, HBO darling show. It doesn't have huge ratings, but the euphoria numbers are insane i mean 14 million

people watching this i'm i always wonder with a show like this it's so racy and boundary pushing like how much of that is just like you know it's basically the the skin of max for the gen z generation and how much of it is people who are really connecting with the characters and tuning in because they relate to it i don don't know the answer to that. It's high school and college. I had my daughter on last week talking about it. It's like it's literally everybody under 22. This became their show.

But is it because it is so racy or is it because they feel that it's real? No, it's because they feel it's real. And I think for the adults and the parents who get scared by some of the content on that show, it's not really about that as much as the relationships and the gender stuff and casual drug use, things like that. I think they just feel like there's no other show talking about this stuff in the way that this show does. And I think the shocking thing to me was the numbers for HBO Max for that for that show where it's all streaming which is which is young people what did you say it's 80 yeah that's not surprising i was surprised to me i didn't i thought it would take 10 years for hbo max to have 80 of a hit hbo show but yeah you have everybody under 25 just going there they don't even know when it's on they don't even know

what hbo linear channel is i mean they just don't even know when it's on. They don't even know what HBO linear channel is. I mean, they just don't, they don't, you know, if their parents don't have cable, they certainly don't. So they're watching it on their iPad or they're watching it on, you know, the, their HBO max subscription that that's not that surprising to me for that show. When you get into some of the other shows, like whether it's white Lotus, you know, they had a huge streaming audience. Like some of the shows that skew a little bit older,

that's a bit more surprising. But you know what? This is where everything's going. And it's going to be that audience that likes the high level premium stuff that makes the transition first. You know, that's not shocking that people are still watching

Yellowstone on Paramount Network. Like that's a show for older Midwestern audiences that are still glued to that cable bundle. Now, obviously, people like you and me will also watch it on streaming, but it's going to be those younger, hotter, hipper shows that get people onto streaming faster. Do you think Apple is one of the ones that scales back? I don't think so, actually. If you look at what they're paying talent,

I mean, they're giving $40 million checks to Brad Pitt, George Clooney. They are outbidding everyone. They got this Formula One movie that's coming with Brad Pitt in it. That's a $200 million movie package. They outbid Netflix, MGM, all these other companies for that movie. And that's just a flex. That's a we've got more money than God doesn't matter to us. We want Tim Cook to be able to go on the Apple earnings call and congratulate Ted Lasso, which he did first thing on the Apple earnings call. That's a priceless thing for them. So if they have to overpay, they will do it and they want to be HBO 2.0. And so far, you know, they've had hits and they've to be HBO 2.0. So far, they've had hits and they've had some good stuff. They've had a lot

of stuff that they spent a lot of money on that did not work, but if it's got a big movie star, they're interested. They are not HBO 2.0. Not yet. No, but that's the goal. That's the goal. They don't want to be everything.

They don't want to be everything to everyone've had a lot of misses. They have. They don't want to be everything to everyone. Did you watch? They had, like, it's crazy some of the stuff that just drops on Apple and nobody talks about it and it goes away. They had a Julianne Moore adaptation of a Stephen King book with Clive Owen. Like, amazing stars. Great Stephen King adaptation material. It just came and went.

Nobody cared. Yeah, I didn't even know about It just came and went. Nobody cared. Yeah. I didn't even know about that until you just told me about it. I was thinking more like, you know, the morning show, which we, we made fun of on the prestige TV podcast, but they would just, they're just spending money in the craziest ways on that show where they would have these 150 person cocktail parties for no reason right or like are they still going to do that or will arnett shows up as like a random you know character like that's not a cheap cameo like he doesn't he doesn't just show up but yeah the morning show is this you know albatross i think like they but they're probably happy with it because it's jennifer aniston and reese witherspoon and they get to put them on the app you know it took them a while to renew it for season three which suggests there

was a debate internally or they had trouble getting the deals done they're now on a new showrunner for season three like they know they know there are problems with that show but again you're like what you said it's reese witherspoon jennifer aniston it is uh it still gets awards attention like people make fun of it but they keep nominating it for like the sag awards like i don't i don't particularly get it i think that season two went completely off the rails and like was was aggressively bad but uh but they still like it and they still think it's you know it's it's big stars and gets some attention they should put you on the poster. Aggressively bad.

Belody, aggressively bad. Fuck. Maybe they might think that's good. I don't know. People do hate watching. I hear a lot of people that hate watching. You're talking to somebody right now who does. One thing they did that was a huge success for them

was Coda, where they outbid everybody that was my favorite movie that i've seen this year i actually think it has a real chance to win the oscar and fantasy and i've been arguing about it fantasy says no way they're not going to give apple an oscar they're not giving out oh i don't think it's apple that's the problem i think when you compare apple to netflix netflix has a real problem people don't like netflix they feel that they have come in and you know know, changed the model. And Apple is just kind of dabbling and they're they're floating a lot of these companies. But the dabbling is that was fantasy's case, though.

So now Apple hasn't earned it yet. Maybe not. Maybe not. But the bigger problem for code in the Oscar race is that it's only got three nominations. And if it wins, that would completely upend all the conventional wisdom about how you win Best Picture. But we have way more voters now, though.

So it's like, is there conventional wisdom anymore? I agree with you. But fantasy is not wrong in the sense that it would be a big shock if it wins because you typically have to amass support from all the different branches.

And if they didn't bother to nominate the director or some of the actors beyond the main guy, that could be a problem for it. What I think it has going for it is the way that the Oscar Best Picture is voted on, which is a preferential ballot, which is designed, you rank your choices, and it's designed to create a consensus. And this year, there's no consensus movie that

everybody is rallying around people love certain movies and just as many people that love power the dog hate it like i i was not a fan of that movie just did not connect at all i would never vote that movie like there's going to be people that vote that movie number one there's gonna be a lot of people that vote that movie number 10 but But Coda, I think, will be a number of people's number one. It'll be a lot of people's number two. That could ultimately end up with winning. I think it's outrageous that the lead actress didn't get nominated. I thought there couldn't have been five better performances.

Considering she had to sing and do sign language. And she was in every scene. And she was in every scene and she was great. And if she wasn't great, that movie's not good. Yeah. I think, you know, the way that the Oscar season works too, is there's this emotional, you know, narrative that forms. And I think that seeing the, the actor, what's his name? Troy Kotsur or something like that, seeing the deaf actor up on stage at the SAG Awards and everybody raising their hands.

That movie has the emotional narrative that usually ends up with a Best Picture win. I thought she should have been nominated. I'm getting her name. Oh, Amelia Jones. She was really good.

The consolation for her is that she's on all the lists right now. Yeah, no. She'll have a career. She's next high one. Totally. Well, fantasy, we were talking about categories. We were saying if they wanted

to make it more fun, you have like a breakthrough performance Oscar or, you know, whatever. She would have won that one if they had it. I don't know why they don't have it. They have it for, like the NBA has fun awards.

Like the Oscars are so fucking precious don't get me started although i i will say i'm one of the only people in this oscar land that thinks that booting eight categories off the show is a good idea i to me they could have done 20 but now you see yeah you see now you see everyone coming out it's like james cameron and kathy kenney they're all saying oh you, you got to respect the crowd. I get it. They're supposed to say that. They have to stand up for their people.

But the Oscars is a television show. If you want to be precious about it and award all 23 categories, great. Do it, you know, on some network that isn't for a general audience. Do it on a streaming channel. We do it with the Emmys. The Emmys is split over two days. It's fine. And the Tonys have started giving awards offstage. do it on a streaming channel we do with the emmys the emmys is split over two days it's of course and the tonys have started giving awards off stage the grammys is basically a big concert now with a

few awards sprinkled in so it makes perfect sense and they're not getting rid of these people they're going to reward them before the show sprinkle their acceptance speeches pull out the most emotional moments and make it interesting to watch. So you don't have to watch, you know, the director of a short film that you've never heard about or even know anything about, you know, take two minutes to walk to the stage to thank his mother and his aunt. I think people are going to watch the Oscars this year because of Will Smith. And cause everyone's like, ah, it's going to bomb. But I think everyone, everyone deep down cares if Will Smith wins the Oscar or not., it's going to bomb. But I think everyone, everyone deep down cares

if Will Smith wins the Oscar or not. And that's going to be what drives this. And they should make that category the latest they possibly can. Right. Although not right for a best movie. Well, last year, remember, they replaced.

Oh, that was stupid. And then Chadwick Boseman didn't win. Right. So it was a total bust. But, you know, guess who the most famous person at the Oscars is going to be this year? Not Will Smith?

No. Who is it? Not Serena Williams. Serena Williams is arguably more famous than Will Smith. And she's going. Venus is going. Not to the New York Times. They thought it was her sister in the picture caption.

That was awful. But, you know, but Serena will be there. It will be an amazing moment if he wins for playing their father i don't know if the father's gonna go he hasn't done any press they've kind of kept him out of the he has been kept out like in general and i don't know whether that's because his health isn't great or because his the reality of him doesn't match the narrative that's presented in the movie or they just don't want him out there. I don't know what it is, but Serena is definitely going to be there. And I think that'll be a great moment if Will Smith wins. I don't think the film will win Best Picture, but she's an executive

producer on the movie and they didn't have to be. They had a choice. When they agreed to let them do the movie, they said, okay, you guys can watch the movie at the end and decide whether you want to put your names on this and then they decided to do it so i think with the expanded voting committee what do they call the voting whatever members yeah voting members yeah when you go from like 600 to i think they're almost at a thousand no no for the oscars they're at ten thousand six thousand to ten right yeah yeah um when you up it to that degree with the way you do the actual votes i think i i don't think there's any way to compare the past to now it's just too big of a variance like if if they change the mvp for the the NBA from 100 to 600,

I still feel like we'd end up with relatively the same because there's so much groupthink with sports awards. I think there's way less groupthink with movies where people are just like, oh, I don't like Power of the Dog. I have that 10th. And that doesn't happen with the NBA. NBA is going to be Jokic or Embiid,

and those are going to be the R2 MVP candidates ultimately. I'll give you another sports analogy that I think is more apt here because it's not just that. It's not just that they increase the number of people. It's that they dramatically change

who the people are who vote. It's much more international. Not old white guys. Exactly. Because you on Rewatchables, you guys always go over, how did this movie. It's not, it's much, because you know, you on rewatchables, you guys always go over like how did this movie get in there? And it's always like the movie that appeals to

80 year old white guys that you're like, what? We don't remember this movie, like that kind of thing. And they dramatically changed who was voting. They brought in more international people. They brought in younger, more diverse people. And the analogy to sports is what if the Hall of Fame was not voted on

by the writers, the writers, the hall of fame and who are the baseball writers? They're old white guys, right? What if, what if you decided to bring in a whole bunch more younger and diverse people into the baseball coaches, managers, exactly. You would have had bonds in the hall of fame guarantee. You would have had all those steroid era guys in the hall of fame guaranteed you would have had all those steroid era guys in the hall of fame but the baseball writers association hasn't done that and the oscars has so it's going to necessarily change how these people are are are considered i think it's good for coda and i think it could be good for king richard too where where it just might be like i like that movie the most fuck it and you vote for it and there you go

yeah the king richard i think it's a good movie. I had a couple issues with that one. I don't think it should be Best Oscar either. Yeah, it felt a little cliched at times. But I liked it a lot. And the girls they found to play

the daughters were amazing. And the fact that they found girls who could credibly play tennis and were good actresses. It's pretty amazing. Let's move to, uh, Jeff Zucker who no longer runs CNN. Um, are we sure Jeff Zucker was good? Cause, cause it was a lot of tributes from a lot of people who Jeff Zucker gave giant contracts to talk about how great he was, but like from an actual result standpoint, did he leave CNN in a better place? Because it doesn't

seem like he did. Yeah, that's an interesting question considering the kind of almost like tantrums that all the talent threw when he got fired for not disclosing his relationship with his chief marketing officer. You know, Jeff Zucker did a thing

at CNN, the thing that he was hired to do, which was to make it relevant. And he did it initially by, you know, Jeff Zucker did a thing at CNN, the thing that he was hired to do, which was to make it relevant. And he did it initially by, you know, going all in on certain stories at CNN. If you remember back before Trump, it was the poop cruise. Remember that? Or the missing plane. Every night you tune in for an update on the missing Malaysian plane. And they were narratives.

And, you know and people liked that stuff and the ratings did increase. Then he basically applied the same strategy to Donald Trump. Just went all in on Donald Trump and was airing his rallies during the election. And CNN's support of Donald Trump

during that campaign, I do believe made a real difference in people taking him seriously as a candidate, listening to his message, allowing him to rally his fans via CNN. Then when Trump was in office, they did this pivot where they went kind of into resistance TV mode where they had anti-Trump hosts and they were for truth and Donald Trump was for lies. And they really took an anti-Trump stance. And it was great for ratings at the time. I mean, CNN was throwing off a billion dollar in profit

during the Trump years because people tuned in to see the latest outrage of the day from Donald Trump. And they really defined themselves as being kind of anti-Fox. The problem with that is that CNN after Trump has sort of been in a no man's land. They are now a politicized brand that half the country doesn't want anything to do with. And the other half of the country isn't, you know, afraid of the latest outrage of the day that Donald Trump did. So they're not tuning into CNN for that. And the ratings have just gone in

the toilet. And I think there's a new regime coming in at CNN at the owner level, and they really want to depoliticize the CNN brand. And I don't know if that's possible. So to get back to your question, Jess Zucker left them that problem to deal with. And I don't know long-term whether the damage to the CNN brand in the U.S. is fixable. fixable overseas and other countries cnn still means the news and that's a great brand to have but in the u.s cnn means something to a lot of people and it's something they don't like great time to launch a streaming service the cnn plus your main cnn is yeah i mean that and they're charging five bucks a month for that. I'm not sure who's going to subscribe to that because they can't put the regular news product on CNN Plus

because they have to put that on CNN. That's the deal with all the cable companies is that it has to be unique, at least for now. So what they're doing is they're just flooding CNN Plus with all these random shows. Anderson Cooper is going to talk about stuff that's not in the news. Or if you love Don Lemon, you'll get more of that. Or Brian Stelter will do a daily media show, not a weekly one.

Like there, you know, there isn't, there's probably a small market for that. And if you put some of the documentary stuff on there, like the stanley shows you don't think anyone's gonna watch that stuff i just to me it's like with the streaming services talk shows where you have to go out of your way to a streaming service to watch people talking when has that succeeded other than the friends reunion probably not much yeah friends reunion which was a one-off but just i'm talking about like daily programming where's who's had the success in that because it seems like a lot in a lot of cases especially with cable one of the reasons the shows work is because people are flipping channels and they land on that channel for an hour for a half hour however long it is it feels like you want if you want to know what's going on right now this moment you flip on cnn

and that doesn't really work in the streaming environment listen it's know what's going on right now, this moment, you flip on CNN. And that doesn't really work in the streaming environment. Listen, it's the same thing going on with award shows. Award shows are trying to figure out what they're going to be in the streaming world. And nobody really knows. They just did this country music show on Amazon the other night. And I checked it out just to see what it was, the ACM Awards. And it was basically a concert. They just did a concert

and they had a couple of awards. They had Dolly Parton. They wheeled out there and, you know, talk for a little bit, but it was basically a concert. And that's what they think an award show will be on streaming. I don't know what they know what news is on streaming yet. I think weekly, maybe like Bill Maher's had a lot of success. And I think something of a Renaissance the last couple of years. John Oliver. You said HBO, John Oliver's another one. But when you're just talking about the daily grind,

like if first take, let's say they took first take off ESPN and moved it to ESPN Plus. Right. There's no way it has the same audience. My question is, does that have anything close to the same audience? If it was just streaming on there,

like it was like a college basketball game. We just, we haven't seen the evidence yet that that works. I don't know. But, but think about in the audio space, like you would think that the same rationale would apply from radio to podcasts because podcasts are on demand, but everybody listens to news podcasts and they feel like they're urgent and relevant enough to tune into. But could podcasts be taking the streaming, like whatever that streaming corner could have been, because it's just easier to listen to podcasts. You're a streamer. I even find this with the NBA. Like I go to the NBA app to watch games sometimes if I'm not in the place where I have the satellite and it's a pain in the ass. I got to go to the app. I got to click four times.

And then it's just so much easier when the games are just on cable and I can dance around, which is like when we get to Amazon and Sunday Ticket or Apple, whoever gets Sunday Ticket, I think it's going to not be as fun of an experience

as it is to be on DirecTV. And by the way, I hate DirecTV, but it's easier to bounce around you know yeah i i think ultimately these services like cnn plus will ultimately be part of hbo max and it'll just be a tile if you're on hbo max you can just click there and top right okay now and they'll have more and more news they'll transition it over so like that'll be the thing that you you go to when you turn on your tv and you'll have you know you'll be able to pick news or HBO shows or Turner or whatever. Sports will be there, too.

It'll be interesting to see how Amazon does football, because if anything's going to work, it's going to be football. But they have to figure out what that experience is like for streaming or whether it's just the same. I mean, you can watch NFL games on Paramount Plus this past year, and it was basically the same. Well, and Amazon had Thursday Night Football, which I don't even think people fully realize. Plus, we have to trust them to tell us what the ratings were. Right. For now, yeah. Who knows? They could say anything. They can. They literally do.

Amazon could be like, hey, we had 50 million people for that Cowboys game. Is that true? I don't know. Last thing before we go, the Disney Florida flip-flop. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Yeah. Hop into that one. So basically, Florida has this don't say gay legislation that they're trying to pass, which is a lot of people in the LGBTQ community are upset about. It is widely been panned as an anti-civil rights. Disney, which has been very active under the Bob Iger CEO years in political issues, taking stands on stuff, saying that they would pull out of Georgia if their anti-abortion law passed. They have a new CEO and his strategy, at least at first, was, you know what? We're Disney. We're an umbrella brand for everybody. We're not going to take a position on political issues and we're

just going to stand back and let them do what they do. We will impact change in our own personal ways. You know, yada, yada, yada. He issued a statement to the company on Monday and it basically the shit hit the fan. People started putting out statements. He got so much pressure. He backtracked and now says that Disney will oppose the don't say gay legislation. Didn't stop people at Pixar from coming out and saying, you know what? You're saying that our content is what's going to make the change in the world. Disney censors our same sex affection every time we put it in our movies. You're not even letting us do that. And we thought you would have our back on something that is objectively anti-gay and lesbian. You didn't do that. People at Pixar are really pissed.

How does it play out? Is it just like everything else that dies down after two days? I mean, the real changer, man. Maybe the real winner here is Bob Iger, the previous CEO. That's always the case who he tweeted some support for um he tweeted against that legislation and everyone was cheering him i do think that's what caused a lot of people at disney to be like you know what the previous guy was for this are you going to tell us that you don't care you don't have our backs anymore um the the new ceo of disney bob chapek has real problems. People think he's not talent friendly. He got sued by Scarlett Johansson over Black Widow.

He, you know, is has has kind of made some moves that have taken away creative control from the executives at Disney. He's put movies like the Pixar movies, which they always loved having in theaters. The new Pixar movie is just on Disney+. It's not even going to theaters, turning red. And people in the creative community don't like that. And then you throw on top of that refusing to stand up against a bill that is pretty openly anti-LGBTQ in a state, Florida, where Disney has about 80,000 employees. So. So, you know, it just seems like this guy is just having mounting problems. And he's got a year to prove himself that he's the right guy for Disney or they will replace him as CEO. Well, you left out the other piece, which he's replacing one of the great CEOs of all time. Very true.

And you're the next guy. You're basically the next Pats coach after Belichick. How's that going to go? You better be really fucking good. I know. I know that the analogy is whoever replaces Rachel Maddow at MSNBC is going to be that person. Like just the firing squad is going to be there ready for whoever that is. Yeah, you almost have to hire somebody who's going to stink as the next person and then go for the person. Well, you know, listen, Iger is a legendary CEO. The one thing he did not do was succession. He did not do that very well.

He had a couple of guys that were lined up and he never allowed that to happen. Yeah, but think of the irony of that, though, because that was how he got the job from Eisner, who was equally as terrible as that and made that a complete shit show for years and years and years. True.

And then Iger did the same thing. I, but Iger, Iger, when he started at Disney, he made some moves that ultimately turned out to be incredibly smart in buying Pixar and buying Marvel and buying Fox and the Fox is still open question,

but like he had a strategy. Supercharging ESPN. He had, they, they, they, yeah, he had a nice run and he was a creative guy eiger started as a weatherman he was a programmer at abc the guy who's currently running disney is like the definition of a corporate suit he was you know in the home video department then he ran parks and consumer products. And like, he's just, you know, even the look of him, he's just, he looks like he should be running, you know, Ford or McDonald's, not Disney, which has such an emotional connection with its fans. And you have to do and say the right things at all times when you're the CEO of Disney, because the fans of the brand expected,

they have a connection to it. So we'll see. He's had some stumbles at the outset, but we'll see how that goes. Well, these are the kind of things we'll be covering on The Town, which is launching on Monday. And what are you doing? Two to three times a week? Two to three, depending on news. We will not be talking only about movies set in Boston. I had some people tweeting at me.

It's funny. I had a couple of people mentioned that too. And I was like, you realize that's what they call Hollywood. It's called the town and people, I think get that, but I don't know. I don't know. Um, I got some really fun tweets. Someone already superimposed my face on the poster. Congrats on that. Yeah. That was a nice moment for me. I feel like I've been memed. You probably get memed all the time, but I got really, I got memed. Well, I'm excited for the pod. I'm excited to be invited on once in a blue moon.

Look forward to working with you in a little more detail. We can't wait to have it. Excellent. Thanks, man. So The Town, you can follow on Spotify, follow wherever you get your podcasts. It launches Monday. You're going to like it. Check it out.

Good to see you. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Waz. Thanks to Matt. Thanks to Schrigs. Thanks to Nephew Kyle. Kyle Creighton for producing, as always.

Thanks to Dylan Cerruti and... Dylan Cerruti. Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey. Wow. That's what happens after two plus hours. You start mixing up names. And don't forget Prestige TV podcast

on Sunday. House and I breaking down Winning Time Episode 2. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you Sunday night with Russello.

Looking forward to it. I don't have.