The Bill Simmons Podcast - Kevin Durant on His Injury, Return to OKC, and the JaVale-Shaq Beef (Ep. 195)

Episode Date: March 31, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on NBA All-Star Kevin Durant to discuss his near season-ending injury (4:00), the decision to embrace being the enemy in OKC (15:00), the amount of talent in today's NBA (24:00), Russell Westbrook's and James Harden's MVP cases (30:00), ways to fix the All-Star Game (38:00), Scott Brooks's redemption in D.C. (46:00), the loaded 2017 draft class (56:00), and Shaq vs. JaVale McGee (1:04:00). Then they address James Worthy's harsh reality (1:11:00), Durant's college recruiting process (1:22:00), and the timetable for his return to the court (1:26:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Masked Man Show and the Ringer NFL Show. And also on Ringer University, teed up breaking down the Final Four, which our guest for today never played in the Final Four, but he did play in the NBA finals. And it's looking like he might play in another one again, Kevin Durant coming up in one second, but first Pearl Jam. All right, undisclosed location in the Bay Area on a Thursday night that may or may not be Kevin Durant's basement.

The last time we did this, Kevin Durant was 100% healthy and was on his way to play Oklahoma City. Yeah. And now you've played them once. You went the other time. You hurt your leg. Yeah. Your leg's getting better.

It was scary. It looked like you were going to be out for the year. Yep. Go through what happened when that happened. Zaza falls into you. What are you thinking? Well, I heard a crack, and it was something that I never felt before. I never heard before.

So I was a little nervous. I didn't know what was going on. So crack like? Like a crunch. Oh, like a ooh. Okay. Yeah. And so I tried to run it off.

Like I do everything. And I knew I was out of it when I could. Like I lost all, you lost all focus on anything. I was just worried about my leg. I ran down eight. I left my man open for a three. My mind wasn't nowhere near a basketball game. So I knew I had to come out the game then.

And two minutes into the game, I'm at home. I had 70 people at the game. How much money I spent on tickets? A lot of money. Was that in Washington in Washington yeah like $10,000 close to $10,000 on tickets more than that more than that so I spent a lot of money on tickets and I'm you know going back home for the first time in months you know and to get hurt two minutes in and not even see my family because I went straight to the hospital afterwards. So the buzz immediately was he's really hurt, this community's out for the year.

Yeah. And that starts going on social media. What did you think was going on? Well, the first diagnosis we got was that I broke my leg, fractured my tibia. And that's for a five-month recovery. So when you hear that are you like how many months is that five months but did you ask that because like if i fractured my tibia i wouldn't know what that meant for well he told me that was what he told me for five four to five months and i just

bust out crying and i'm like man not again you know what i'm saying i'm like first of all this is my first year with the team we We were playing very well at the time. Yeah. You know, I was playing well individually. You know, it was definitely a good time for our team. You know what I mean? And we were on an East Coast road trip back home, playing in front of my family.

And then on top of that, I knew this is what everybody wanted to see, first of all. Well, not everybody. Not everybody. The haters. The haters. Yeah. Let me defend all the fans out there for a second. I think if people are rooting against somebody,

they don't actually want to see an injury. I think it's like they have fun rooting against the Warriors or you. I wouldn't say they like a season in the injury or a career in the injury. Maybe they'll almost say some fans might have seen it excited. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. But all that stuff ran through my head because it was like, man, I'm just, you know, I'm in a dark place right now, you know, taking basketball away from me,

something that I love, and then I might not be able to play for the rest of the year. And then when we got in the car, I was finally wrapping my mind around, all right, I don't know if I was thinking about, I don't know if that requires surgery or anything, but I wrapped my mind around this long recovery and, you know, what it was going to take for me to get back. And then we got a call, like, we checked the scans again. Well, we had to got a CT scan to see

what condition the bone was in. They gives you a more in-depth picture of the bone. And they told me it was just a bruise there and I sprained my MCL. And that reaction in the car was like second to none. Like if you were to see, if that emotional rollercoaster, that hour, it was something out of a movie.

And they were all in the car. It was me, Rich, Johnny West, and Tom, our security guy. And we all just fist pumped and hugged and we were so excited because it was not as bad as we thought. You literally dodged a bullet.

Literally, yeah. That sucks that you thought you were done. I don't know if I knew that part, that you thought it was over for like... For an hour. No, not an hour, probably 30 minutes. I just knew that, all right, now I'm not going to be able to play until July or August maybe. Now Andre Iguodala took your job. I mean, I don't even know. They might not even play you when you come maybe. You know what I'm saying? Now Andre Iguodala took your job.

I mean, I don't even know. They might not even play you when you come back. I know, I know. You can play like 10 minutes a game maybe. I know, man. That sucks. But as long as I'm with you. Come in, should you maybe stretch the floor in the corners?

I wouldn't. Whatever they need at this point, you know, as long as I'm out there. Have you learned anything from watching on the bench? Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Because it's not like you were sitting there watching your team because you were out there. Have you learned anything from watching on the bench? Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Because it's not like you were sitting there watching your team because you were out there 38 minutes a game. Not 38. 36? Nah, more like 33,

32. So what'd you learn? Just seeing, you know, different sets from different angles. The game, the way we play is so fast, sometimes you don't realize what's going on and uh i see different different spots where i can hit on the floor to free myself up and my teammates up and uh they're playing well lately playing very well

it's funny everybody trying to write them off i mean yeah that's just a couple times this season and then after your oh you got injured out there and lost the one seed. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, Curry and Klay. Curry and Klay are averaging like 23s a game this month combined. Yeah. Just firing them up. We got to, you know.

We got to. That's why we play. There's no optimism when it comes to fans or anybody outside of the players and the organization. You know, we were good. Just like you see with Cleveland now. I'm sure they know they're going through a tough stretch. I think it's worse than a tough stretch.

I mean, a tough stretch. I'm a media member. I'm supposed to know things out of proportion. Yeah, of course. Just like a fan. You're a fan. Yeah, I'm a fan. And you're a media member. I'm more of a fan. You're a fan. You're a fan. I'm a fan. And you're a media.

I'm more of a fan than a media. A member of the media. So, you know, looking from the inside, like, you know, obviously we're not playing well. We want to get back on the winning side. But we know what it takes. You know, that's exactly how we felt. It's interesting because anytime something like this happens

with an older team that's been there a couple times, they'll flip the switch when the playoffs come. And a lot of times that doesn't happen. Like LeBron was on the Heat three years ago. I was doing TV that year. And we kept saying, they'll flip the switch, they'll flip the switch. And then all of a sudden in the San Antonio series, they went to flip it and it wasn't there. I think it's a bad sign when you're just getting your ass kicked defensively twice a week.

Yeah. You know, that has to mean something. Yeah, I mean, you want to definitely build good habits, you know, but you can't. I mean, a team that talented, that good, and that seasoned, you can definitely flip a switch. How long you'll be able to sustain that, who knows. Just like you said, once it was time to flip it on again, that Miami Heat team lost to a team that kept their switch on all year.

You know what I'm saying? 2011 Lakers were another one. Remember that? Yeah, I remember that. Three straight finals, then they go Dallas. It's like, oh, they're down against Dallas. No, they'll flip the switch. Dallas just knocks them out.

Yeah, but when you – they've been to what? They've been since LeBron's been there. Two finals in a row. Two finals in a row. LeBron's been there. Two finals in a row. Two finals in a row. LeBron's been in six in a row. Six in a row. That's like, that's a lot mentally. You know what I'm saying?

That's crazy. As far as like being up for a game in January or December, it's just like we know what we want to get to. We know what it takes to get there. And we've been there before. They won a title. So it was like, man, those games matter. get to we know what it takes to get there and we've been there before they won a title so it's like man those games matter but like we're we're kind of seeing down the line you know we're kind

of thinking farther than what we should be thinking i guess and when you're on a really good team you know um you know the playoffs you can kind of look towards that um a little bit earlier than you should and did you sense that from steph Clay at all in November, December this year? No. Because Draymond's not. Draymond's just going to go all out every game because he's a maniac. I think we all go all out every game. That's not even a question.

I think every player does that. But it's easy to look towards the future a little bit. But I think for Steph and Clay, I think our team was so new. We were so focused on, you know, coming together as a group because I'm sure if it was the same team they had last year, they might have had the same mindset as far as art. We know how good we are, and we know where we've been these last few years. But I think we're such a new team with me, D-West, Zaza, Pat, JaVale, just so many new players, you know.

We just all had to get integrated into the system. And I think having guys like Steph and Klay and Draymond who have been there since Steve's been there, you know, they spent a lot of time focusing on helping us, you know what I'm saying, helping us figure that system out and figure out what, you know, different nuances and how we're going to play as a team. So I think that's what their focus was more so than looking down the line. Yeah, I did a podcast with Nash on Wednesday,

and he was talking about when you have a new team. And he was describing, like, is it you? And you start doing that a little bit, and that's what can hurt a team in the playoff series. You're really out of the essential guys that are going to be out there in the last five minutes of a game. You're really going to be the only new guy. I think you need to motivate LeBron though.

Why? Because everyone wants a trilogy. I think you need to say something like, well, if LeBron was any kind of a man, he would show up for this finals. There's just something. There's just some sort of, we need some sort of headline. Durant calls out LeBron was any kind of a man he would show up for this finals or just something just some sort of we need some sort of

the man calls out LeBron says no alright I ain't got nothing to do with me I know that's what everybody want to see is a good old fashioned

showdown between them well they want to see a lot of showdowns with you yeah they want me to they want me to fight with everybody yeah the what do you want to talk about first All-Star weekend a lot of showdowns with you. Yeah, they want me to fight with everybody. Yeah.

What do you want to talk about first? All-Star weekend or the first OKC trip? Because you haven't really talked about either. It's on you. Let's start with the first OKC trip. What about it? I kind of enjoyed 80% of what they did. Because I'm of the belief of they're fans. You're cheering your team. You're rooting against the other team. Why enjoyed 80% of what they did. Because I'm of the belief of they're fans. You're cheering your team.

You're rooting against the other team. Why only 80%? Because I didn't like yelling at the family and stuff like that. I thought that crossed the line. I think they're going to chant cupcake. They're going to do. They're going to give you shit because you laughed. I get it.

It seemed there was a personal edge that I didn't like. I don't know. I can hear it. It seemed there was a personal edge that I didn't like. I don't know. I can hear it. I said that as an innocent bystander just watching on my couch. I don't know if my mom, they say anything to my mom, but I don't know about that. I didn't even ask her about that type of stuff. But I think she was just more, she's a mom. You know what I'm saying?

She doesn't see it from a fan's perspective like she doesn't see that i left and you know a city um a small market at that who only who's you know this is their only professional team and they're so hurt about who i went to and all that stuff and so she doesn't see it as that she see it as though like as a mom should like i've been there for so long i did so much uh in that community and for the team and for the organization and just like a mom should a caring loving person should she thinks that um you know I should be commending for it me on the other hand I'm like me and Rich was telling her like you got it I don't think she realized it was coming like weeks before the game and we were like my mom was like can you you know I want to, I don't think she realized it was coming, like, weeks before the game, and we were like,

my mom was like, can you, you know, I want to get, I want to walk down on the floor, I want to, like, I'm like, you got to relax. Like, this is not, I don't play here no more. Like, they don't care about, they never, like, fans don't really care about, you know, once you

leave them, especially, you know, in that city, like, who you were when you were there or you leave them, especially, you know, in that city, like who you, who you were when you did, when you were there or anything. So me and Rich had to tell her, like, this might not be what you really think it was. You think it's going to be, there's no videos, there's no cheering, there's none of that. And we understood that. And I knew that coming in, that's why I was a little bit more relaxed than I thought, you know. But as far as yelling at my mom, I didn't hear none of that. I didn't see any of that. And she was just upset about, you know.

She looked back on the eight years that I was in Oklahoma City and what I did. She really thought it was a homecoming. Right. And I'm like, no, it's not like that. We understood that. I did at least. Did, after that game, did you feel like, man, I spent eight years here, and now I'm getting booed? Like, part of this just hurts my feelings.

Man, I know all about sports. I know all about being a fan. You know what I'm saying? If I was a fan of that team and I was in their shoes, I would do the same thing. Yeah. And I understand that. But what makes it even sweeter is that, like, I think at some point in your career, if you're,

like, considered one of the best, you should be loved and you should want to feel loved and hated. And I felt that. You know what I'm saying? And I wanted to see what both sides felt like. That's interesting. So you wanted to see how you reacted to it. Yeah.

So how'd you react? I thought I did a great job, you know. I thought you played well in that game. I mean, I played well. We won. Your teammates rallied around you too. My teammates rallied around me. It was a fun game.

When I walked out of the tunnel to pregame shoot, you know, I felt it then. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, I was walking out of the tunnel. I seen a little kid with a cupcake costume on. I was like, this is something I always, as I got older in the league, when people were loving me and I couldn't do no wrong, I could say whatever I want in the media and people would, I felt like the kid that every grandma was pinching their cheeks. Like all the moms loved me. You know what I'm saying? All the kids looked up to me because I was this upstanding citizen. Everybody loved what I brought to the table.

And then on top of that, I could play a little basketball. Yeah. But now it's like you're a traitor. You're disloyal. You're a front runner. Front runner. You're gutless. You have no spine. And I'm like, I lovener. Frontrunner. You're gutless. You have no spine.

And I'm like, I love this. I love it. I embrace it because, like, every character that I enjoyed growing up have seen both sides. You know what I'm saying? I listen to Jay-Z all the time. And he said, they love you, then they hate you, and they love you again. And that always, since I made this this decision that quote is always in my

head you know I'm saying cuz it's all this is all the story it's not real so obviously in this movie you're gonna be loved you're gonna be hated and you'll be loved again and then they might hate you again they might like it's all comes full circle so the real part was that you had relationships with guys in the other team but then it just becomes a basketball game. But, like, you and Kaner started barking at each other at one point. During the game? Not that game.

When we played here, when we played them the first time. Oh, that's what it was. Yeah, I got it mixed up. But I don't really know him that well. You know what I'm saying? I can see if that was Kendrick Perkins. And I can see if... Who'd you get into it with the second game?

Andre. Oh, Andre. But that's,'s like my brother. Andre is like, Andre is my guy. Yeah. Like, that's really my brother. Like, somebody like that is strictly basketball. That's all it was.

It wasn't anything outside of that but if Ennis was Perk or Eric Maynard or Daquan Cook or any of those guys that I

you know we went to the finals with him we went to World War every single year from 2009 2010 up to 2013

then I would feel the way but he's not one of them I played with him for a year you know what I'm saying and I was good

to Ennis like I was I was really good to Ennis. Yeah. Like, I was really good to him as far as, like, trying to embrace him from early on, trying to help him as a basketball player, just trying to make his life comfortable and being in a winning situation

which he's never been in. I thought I was really good to him. Obviously, we weren't getting into it as teammates. That's what everybody do. But I thought I was really good to him. So it was kind of weird when he as teammates. That's what everybody do. But I thought I was really good to him. So it was kind of weird when he would, you know. Well, he's Team Westbrook now. Oh, yeah. All the way.

He's sticking up for his dude, man. Yeah, I mean, that's who he passes the ball to. Russ would pass him the ball all the time. So, hell yeah, I'd be Team Westbrook, too, if I get all my points from his assists. So, yeah. Did you even have a moment with Westbrook in that first game? Did you even acknowledge each other?

No, no. So that part's strange to me, just as an innocent bystander. I can't lie. It is because, I mean, we spent some time together, and I understand, like, who I left to go to and what happened and all this stuff. And then, on top of that, I don't really, to me, I don't really think he got a problem.

I don't really think it's. But if you ask a man every single day about me, on top of that, to me, I don't really think he got a problem. I don't really think it's – but if you ask a man every single day about me, I would be pissed too. Right. I would say it's been good for the season. Who's your competitor? Me right now? I don't know. If anybody.

I'm not an athlete. But I'm just saying, like, you got a competitor in your field. Like, if somebody asks you about them every single day. Well, people ask me about ESPN a lot. It pisses me off. Exactly. And then ESPN, you probably me about ESPN a lot. It pisses me off. Exactly. So if you, and then ESPN, you probably don't even have a real thing with them. It's just like, well, how many times are you going to ask me about this person?

I'm worried about me. You ask him about me every day, I would get pissed off too. So I think that's what added to this feud or this beef that we have, which is all manufactured. You know what I'm saying? It's a very good answer. I almost believe it. It's real. But at the All-Star game, when you guys had the play,

the way the teammates reacted I thought was pretty funny because it felt like the whole thing made them feel awkward and they were happy that something happened, right? It was awkward. You know what I'm saying? We just, everybody see it, everybody talked about it the whole time. That was the topic of discussion. you know what I'm saying? We just, everybody see it, everybody talked about it the whole time. That was the topic of discussion, you know what I'm saying? It was who's getting traded and are they talking to each other?

It was corny. It's tabloid TMZ talk. It's not even basketball. It's not even what's important in this game, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, there was like an Instagram video at one point of you were entering the arena one of the days and he was ahead of you, but you weren't talking. I'm like, what is this? And that was awkward for me.

It was awkward for me because I'm like, first of all, I got pride. We both got pride. So if I walk up to somebody and they just ignore me, I'm like, I would get really upset. You know, I get really mad. You know what I'm saying? I don't really get mad at a lot, but that pisses me off. So I didn't want to like make it an awkward awkward situation for him I didn't want to make it awkward situation for me and so so that's why it was weird it feels the same way yeah

exactly you just need Kendrick Perkins to get you guys exactly I mean it's not even because I've definitely I never even told nobody this. Like, I wanted to ask Russell, like, how's your family doing, man? How you feel? Like, stuff that normal people talk about, but there's just, like, so many cameras watching. And it's, oh, what'd they talk about? They didn't look at each other. They didn't even say hi.

Like, it was just making me so mad. You're like in a fishbowl. Yeah, it was like, man, just, everybody wants know. Everybody, every, every, every news outlet wanted to know. And it was like, you want to know about two grown men's conversation with their relationship. Let's take a quick break to talk about SoFi. If you've taken out student loans to invest in yourself and your career, SoFi wants to help you out. Attending college and following your passions, it's an investment, but with student debt, it can be quite the burden. SoFi is in the business of helping you pay off student debt faster.

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originated by SoFi Lending Corp. California Finance Lender Law License number 605-4612. NMLS ID number 112-1636. Back to Kevin Durant. This has been an unbelievable NBA season. I think we have more really great players in the league at the same time, all playing really well, than we've had since I was in college. Yeah.

And it just seems like there's so much interest. And the NBA, I can't ever remember the NBA being more popular, more discussed day after day after day. I think social media plays a little part of it. It does. 24-7 talk, radio, sports show cycle, that definitely helps. The fact that we can watch these games. I was watching Westbrook last night bring OKC back against Orlando.

20 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to see that game. Yeah. We can watch every game. Yeah. And I think that drives some of that interest, too. It's like I've seen most of your Warriors games. I've seen a lot

of his OKC comebacks and people feel like, it almost seems like they feel like you're in their lives. You know? Yeah. Like you become

like these de facto family members. That's probably why they care. That's why, yeah. I mean, I feel as though these NBA players,

they mean so much to these fans because it's such easy access. How many? When I was watching the NBA, I've never seen this many different brands. Every player has their own brand now. Right. I've honestly never seen this many logos in players in the league, like so many superstars, as you call it, or stars. There's a bunch of them in each city. So if you look at Milwaukee, who's the guy there?

Yes. So everybody in Milwaukee feels like he's their guy. You know what I'm saying? Isaiah Thomas of Boston. Isaiah Thomas. Chicago has Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio. It's like every team has a guy where it's like, this is our guy. This is who we believe in.

This is our savior, basically. So that's what gets me. The Brooklyn fans right now are going, wait, who? Who's that? What? Yeah, they're finding their guy. Eventually they'll have their guy. They'll eventually have a guy, just like everybody else.

Yeah. So that's why they get so emotionally tied to him. You know what I'm saying? It sounds like you've spent the last, ever since this whole, you've changed teams, you've spent a lot of time thinking about the relationship between players and fans. Yeah, I do. Did you think about that before this whole thing happened? No, not really.

You know, I really, I wouldn't say I spent a lot of time thinking about it. I was just curious to the fact, and I look at patterns, and I sit back and observe the change and why fans are so attached to players. You know what I'm saying? I see it in my situation where they may love you. In a matter of seconds, they turn on you. You know?

And I really thought that they genuinely loved me. Yeah. Well, I think they did. I think that was the problem. Yeah, they might have, but it's just like, it's a different type of love. It's weird to say because somebody that really, really loves me didn't care.

Yeah. Whereas it's like, I love you, but only if you play for my team or if you doing what I want you to do, which is it's a harsh reality sometimes because it's like, man, I really feel this love. But I'm wondering if I switch up or if I do something that they might not like, what would the reaction be? be so that was the biggest criticism i heard from our first podcast was that it people thought it didn't seem like you totally understood why the fans would take it that personally i didn't because when you play in a small market like that like you don't really you don't see anything else and you play for especially with a city for a city that um has one professional team you could kind of you get naive to whatever a fan really is because we sold out every game no matter who was against. Yeah.

They wasn't coming just to cheer for LeBron or Steph or James Harden. They booed them so they can cheer louder for us. You know what I'm saying? So I was kind of in a professional fantasy world where it was like I never received any type of hate. It wasn't no tabloids. I mean, not tabloids. It wasn't even no articles

about this guy should be... I look at the New York Knicks and Chicago Bulls and, you know, these big markets and their home papers are just dissecting the team. Like, we didn't get that.

You've certainly gotten it this year on the Warriors. Yeah. I mean, you got it. Every day there's like a new storyline. But I'm talking about... No, I know what you're talking about, get that so you've certainly gotten it this year on the Warriors yeah you got every every day there's like a new storyline but I'm talking about no I know what you're talking about but I'm saying like you had the opposite experience so I'm really thinking like I was really living in like a like a little bubble yeah a real bubble and um so it made me I was naive that's you know

I didn't I didn't realize it would be like that. I didn't realize we had fans that really cared about that. I just thought they, man, you play for the Thunder. We appreciate that. We never had a team before. That's how I looked at it. And then when I left, I was kind of shocked because I was like, then I would go back and then I'm like, I remember this guy in the stands. Like, I used to say what's up to you every day, every game.

And now I turn around, you got a cupcake shirt on. I'm like, that kind of hit me like, yeah, I understand what this is about now. You know what I'm saying? So, and I don't take it personal. I knew it was coming. I knew it was about. So, now I know, especially coming here, especially experiencing, like, this last, this whole year and what goes on when you're looked at as that guy. Right.

You know what I'm saying? You kind of knew Westbrook was going to, once he got his own team, you kind of knew he was going to do this, right? Yeah. Would you have guessed a triple-double? No, I wouldn't have guessed a triple-double. I ain't going to lie to you. You didn't know Enes Kanter and Steven Adams were going to box out the other

guys so he could get the rebound. I kind of, being playing with Russ, I know exactly how he gets these triple doubles, and it's pretty amazing because it's like for him, when he grabs a rebound, that just unlocks the fast break, and I understand why he does that. So as a point guard, you don't have to box anybody out because usually the point guard is the first one back on defense. Right. So he took – I watched him. You know, he takes that and uses that to his advantage to go in there

and help rebound because sometimes battling with those bigs and you got wing players that are long and athletic. So when we played last year, I think we might have led the league in rebounding because we had five guys on the glass. So he was always taught that even when Scottie was there. Everybody come get on the glass. That's how we're going to win. We're going to out-rebound teams and that just carried over.

And that's one. I averaged eight rebounds. I averaged eight rebounds last year. So take eight of those away. Of course. And he averaged seven. Of course. I seen it coming. How many points did you average last year? 28. Yeah, so he gets some of those yeah you got the ball in your hands more and you're shooting more of course and he's like he catching the rhythm you know I'm saying he got a rhythm and once you play with rhythm and

you get the opportunity you just having fun out there it produces that and triple doubles I didn't I can't I mean that's so far-fetched now in our game I didn't – I can't – I mean, that's so far-fetched. Now in our game, I didn't really – You never even occurred to you somebody could do that. Yeah, and it's like – that's kind of crazy. What's crazier to you, that he's doing that or that Harden's going to be at like 11.5 assists a game? Both of them are crazy because he's leading the league. Because he's leading the league.

Two of the craziest stat seasons ever. Is he leading the league in assists? He's like 31 and 11. What is he, 30 and 11 every night seasons ever he's like 31 and 11 what is he 30 and 11 every night and right and russell's 31 10 and 10 and 10 that's that's ridiculous you know i'm saying but they got teams where they got to orchestrate everything you know i'm saying they're setting up they're setting the table for everybody that's why nba players need to rest more we're gonna talk about that even even though though you already talked about the resting a little bit.

Yeah, but I ain't giving much. I liked your thesis about they only concentrate on the five guys who rest because the fans get mad because they paid for it. See, LeBron's not there, but really, everybody in the league rests. We just only notice the five. Well, anything LeBron does, you guys talk about like it's breaking news. So he can't do anything. He has to play every game.

He has to average close to a triple-double. He can't. He has to be a perfect person because y'all are going to say everything about him. Well, you are. How did I get lumped into this? Well, you're a part of the media. You said it as a fan 10 minutes ago. And you're a fan.

You're a Boston fan. No, I'm a LeBron defender because I think the fact that he's been able to stay on the court like he has for 14 years and all the minutes he's played, I'd never seen anything like it. And then even what Westbrook's doing this year with what he's doing in 34 minutes a game, every game, how hard he plays. I'm always amazed by that because it's a hard game to play. I think those four years LeBron spent in Miami were different

than those years he's playing now, those minutes he's playing now. Because the Miami minutes were a little easier. They were a little easier because they had such a great team. I think Coach Sposio is definitely underrated. He's one of the best coaches in the league. He's been one of the best coaches for the last

six years. And I think he put a system in place. Like LeBron played off the ball a lot in Miami. A lot. And he put he put a system in play like lebron played off the ball a lot in miami a lot and he played he had the ball a lot too but he played off the ball he was catching backdoor lobs he was running in the post um you know they ran a lot of fast break he was catching shooting threes sometimes like supposed to put it in put him in some great positions and i think that helped him as far as you as keeping his body intact and he does a great job with that anyway.

So what do you think the ideal number for the schedule is? 82. So you're still an 82 supporter. You wouldn't go to 76? Some things you gotta keep traditional I think. If you put it to 66 What about 76? No, I like 82 because

the game is changing anyway the league is changing it's getting younger I mean at least keep something you know what I'm saying teams are moving

teams are changing brands like teams are changing jerseys every year like at least keep something I think so 82 is a cool but

you know and back to back is a cool but cut them down a little bit you know what I'm saying cut the travel down while you like teams on the west coast they gotta travel a little farther and, but cut them down a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Cut the travel down. While you, like teams on the West Coast, they got to travel a little farther,

and the East Coast got to travel a little farther. So we go from, and our West Coast games, when we go from here to San Antonio and Houston on the back-to-back, like that's a long flight. What would you fix? If you could change anything about the season or the league or anything, what's the thing that drives you crazy? Other than All-Star weekend or that whole All-Star weekend. I can almost deal with that.

I like All-Star weekend sometimes, or some of it. I thought you said the game you didn't like this year. No, you can't like the All-Star game. No, the game was just the game. But we'll talk about that. But what I would change is, no, man. We live a great life, to be honest. And when I look at it that way, I think the games,

we could change the schedule just a little bit as far as how far we got to travel. Like sometimes we can hit two or three cities in a road trip and get it out the way instead of going two or three times. Yeah. Going across the country four times, like sometimes it's like, come on now. When we can hit both New York teams or we can go through the whole East Coast in one trip. I think that may help. It seems like the arena availability is what kills it. Yeah, that might kill it. But I don't know.

I mean, that's not my job, obviously. I don't even know how it even works. I think they would prefer that. But there's just times where it's like, oh, yeah, the circus. We did that last year. We did that last year. We did that last year with OKC. But we're in the middle of the country.

Every flight was two and a half. The longest was three and a half. But now it's like five hour flights six hour flights which is cool but we can hit if we can hit all

we don't have to go to the east coast three times in a year like you know what I'm saying how would you fix the all-star game because it was awful

yeah it was I actually used to really like the all-star game and it used to matter to me and I used to love to see who the five guys on each team would be to matter to me and I used to love to see who

the five guys on each team would be in the last five minutes and everybody would kind of turn it on and it was like a nice snapshot of who mattered in that season. And now that's just gone. Everybody's just throwing alley-oops. Yeah, because we think about, we think so much about like, I mean, I would love to see a real pickup

game, you know what I'm saying? A real hoop game where we just play. But that's what doesn't make sense to me. It's like if you guys, a bunch of them get together. I don't know if you're in the group that gets together in L.A. Everybody's playing pickup like those games that Chris Paul runs. Yeah. We hoop. I was trying in those games.

So why weren't you trying in the All-Star game? Hey, look, man. It's Sunday. Rich is nodding. It's Sunday. It's Sunday. Rich is nodding. It's Sunday. It's Sunday. The game's Sunday. We done did everything

from Thursday, had a game, flying in New Orleans, hit the ground running. And by Sunday, by the time Sunday, and you want to enjoy your break,

by the time Sunday comes, we're like, man, let's just get this overweight and get back to the second half of the season. All right. So that's actually a good answer

because that just told me why the game sucks. That's what I'm saying. Because if everybody just wants to get it over with. That's my thought. You don't want that. I will hoop. I mean, all of us will hoop, but it's just like a big elephant in a room. I think if we all come together before the game, we'll just be like,

are we going to hoop today or are we just going to go through the motions? We won't have to put no extra incentives. We don't have to put extra money, none of that stuff. If we all get in the room and we just all come together and ask, and we all just say we're going to go out there and hoop, and hoop hard, play hard against each other, then we'll do it. What if they had captains? I don't think that would work either.

What about older versus younger? 28 and over versus 28 and vs 28 none of that stuff works it's just a matter of are we going to play or not I think the top guys need to just ask each other if you've been there for the longest you're the veterans Bron is a veteran he was the oldest

was this 8 for me damn I should have spoke up yeah I was going to break it, eight for me? Yeah. Damn, I should have spoke up. Yeah, I was going to break it to you. I should have said something. I mean, because usually it was D-Wade, it was KG, it was Bron, it was Mello. It was like, those are the OGs of the game. And I was like, we're the young guys and we just following your flow. Well, now you're not the young guys.

We got so many young dudes playing, they don't even like, they just happy to be there. So they don't even care that it's like a game. So back when Kobe was there and all of the old guys, like I remember the last game that was pretty good was 2014. It was pretty good. And because we had, you know, we had the OGs that just don't know no better, but it's the hoop and we all hooped. So I think just me, Bron, who's getting up there in years now, Russ, James.

If we just go out there and be like, yo, let's just hoop. I think everybody will follow our lead. It's interesting that LeBron Wade Carmelo generation is now the older generation. Yeah, man. And Dirk's way up there. He's like the old man on the hill. Yeah, he's hill yeah he's still doing his little fade away yes yes but then did dirt make it this year he was it well that's part of the problem in the beginning of the year but who uh replaced uh somebody was a replacement carmelo was a replacement he wasn't happy about it. Yes, he was. Yeah, they should have one pick in each conference.

One pick in each conference that's like the old guy pick or like the 18-year-old. No, we shouldn't do that. Why? Because it's like us players, we know who's been here the longest. It's no like set leader or set captain. When Kobe was here last year, we like Kobe been here the longest. We respect the amount of stars you got on your slippers, man.

They give us slippers. What? They give us flip flops. That have stars for how many stars you made? Yeah, so we respect the stars. So you have eight stars on your slippers. Yep, you got to respect it. Would a Kobe have like 15?

20. Jesus. No, no, he ain't have 20. He might have. He had at least 18. He made it his first year. I thought he made it his first year. No, he made the first year.

I think every year after that. Yeah, he might have had 18 stars, 17 stars. When did you miss your first year? I missed my first year and my first two years. You missed your first year because PJ Carlissimo was playing you at the two guard. At the two guard, which I should have been playing a four back then. You'll be happy to know I was going nuts about that online in my column. Really?

Yeah. It was like, because I felt like I had watched you the year before in college. I thought you were in the Celtics, and then you weren't. I was still attached. Then I'm like, why the hell are they playing him at two-yard? He's seven feet tall. This is crazy. That was weird because I went from not knowing how to really dribble into being until being a two guy i guess it helped yeah it might have helped it might have

helped because i was guarding two guards i was guarding point guards getting torched man i remember baron davis torched me one game and that kind of woke me up but i always i scored 20 i average 20 a game you guys are the model of when people talk about is the draft system broken or not where you're putting young guys in a position they're putting young guys on bad teams so you gotta learn in these mistakes but for you and westbrook and harden and actually you were in the finals in four years see it's a little different with us like because you guys are three of the future best players of the week yeah i'm from i'll put it to you this way my situation they cleared everything out for me.

Like, they cleared Ray Allen, they cleared Rashard Lewis. Yeah. And we started really young, me and Jeff Green were the backbones. So I went from, like, leading my college team in points and rebounds. I averaged 25 points a game in college. So I kind of knew what it took to lead a team in scoring. And, like, so I just tried to use that mindset going in. And then the next year, like I was there to help Russell.

You know what I'm saying? I was there to kind of, I may not have been as vocal, but he kind of took, watched what I did. And we kind of bounced, you know, we worked as hard. We worked off of each other and our coaching staff did a good job of like bringing us together and having Russell, you know, kind of me and jeff's lead as far as how we're gonna work he was kind of an unpolished diamond at that point exactly he wasn't even starting to start the year and when scotty took over he became a starter so he kind of he was waiting

yeah and then uh when james came in it was me rus, Jeff, and then we kind of like welcomed James into the group. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like we all had like some type of guidance, you know, whether some of these guys, they're going into a program and, you know, coach is about to get fired and they don't have a backup plan. Right. Or, you know, the GM might get fired. You know what I'm saying? Something crazy like that. And I feel like if you have a young guy, you got to have a plan around them.

You know what I'm saying? You got to have a five, six-year plan on how you're going to groom these guys. And you got to just throw them in the fire. Like, you can't have a top two pick and bring them off the bench. That don't make sense. You're not going to win. Well, your first year was crazy, too, because the team was probably moving. You didn't

know 100% it was moving, but you thought it was probably moving, and these fans are like, are we going to lose our team? Yeah, but I was so young, I didn't know what was going on. I had no clue. I thought we were going to, I bought a house. Oh, you bought a house in Seattle? Yeah. Oh, no. So I'm like, because I thought

we were going to be there for at least another four or five years. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, I'm going to settle in here. I never bought a home before. My family was excited about that. And I'm going to settle in in Seattle. No. There wasn't a lot of settling.

No. It was crazy how that happened. How many people were living with you that first year? Just my mom and my cousin. What's the biggest thing you wish somebody had told you that you could tell you now 10 years, 8 years later? Always take control of your life, every area. I would love to talk to a lot of these kids today

because obviously they're coming in at such a young age, and there's very few of us that came in at a young age that has such high expectations. And so take control of your life, man. Do something that you want to do because at the end of the day, you've got to live with it. When you say take control of your life, what does that mean? Every area.

Like watch your money? Watch your money, know who put put people in position that you trust and that you have real relationships with um you know make sure you got people around you that's gonna let you focus on what's important which is getting better as a basketball player. But like I said, relationships are key. You know, if your agent is someone that was picked for you, you know, chances are you're going to end up firing them because you don't have a relationship with them once you get older. So I think that was something that, you know, I had to go through.

And I'm glad I went through it because everything is about trial and error. Yeah. So, yeah, just know who you're going to be doing life with. That's the most important part. Relationships are the most important part in this thing. And if you got people you trust, because this is a cutthroat business, this is a cold world out here, especially when you're dealing with basketball players. You're dealing with so much money.

It's a cold world. So make sure you got people around you that you trust because this thing will have to last you for the rest of your life. What would you tell about women? Women? I mean, that's a thing you got to go through. That's something you got to go through on your own. I can't tell you about a woman, man, because you like who you like.

I can't tell you who to like. Yeah, but all of a sudden you're a famous athlete making a few million bucks a year like. I mean but you can't be naive to the fact that Jerry West is going to get you a lot of women. Meaning Jerry West that logo on your jersey. I was going to say Jerry West is a pimp? That's what we say

I learned that from Kendrick Perkins Kendrick Perkins called him Jerry West? Yeah a lot of dudes on our team young dudes that would come in and they were feeling their selves and thought they just were players.

Like, Kirk was like, look, man, Jerry West is the reason why you're getting all this attention. Meaning that logo. That's great.

I'm going to start saying that to Tate. Yeah, so. Tate, man, that's Jerry West getting you all the attention lately. Yeah, it is.

So if you're naive to the fact that you weren't getting these type of So if you're naive to the fact that you weren't getting these type of women before you made it to the league or this type of attention, then you're going to end up

getting into something that you're going to regret. So I think that's a gift and a curse sometimes too because I might have passed up on some women that might have been great for me

just because of the fact that I didn't trust them. And it's still hard. Should we call some of them out right now? No. Name check? No? Alright. How does Perk have all this wisdom? He came to the league when he was 18. But he's been through a lot. You know that.

Coming to the league at 18, you go through a lot. Perk's been through a lot. We done had some deep convos, man. I miss him a lot. It sounds like Perk should have a podcast. He would love. Actually, we need to get Perk on our podcast. Where is he based out of?

He's in Houston. You got to talk to Perk. Can we get Perk for the next podcast? Do a three-man with you and Perk? Easily. That's what we should do next. Me, you, and Perk. It would be amazing.

He'll tell you all the Boston days. He'd give you some nice stories. And he would talk about the OKC days. You'll love it. What's he doing now? I think he's just working out. I think he really, I talked to him the other day, actually. He wants to get back in the league.

Really? Yeah. We'll see. I hope so. I think anybody can use him. If somebody like James Jones is in the league because he has so much wisdom, is a great teammate. That's why he's in the league at this point. He gave them a pep talk this week.

Yeah, man. Those dudes are valuable, man. Three times a year, James Jones gives a sports movie speech. These dudes are valuable, man. Those dudes are valuable. Nazeem Muhammad last year, he was on his 18th year. I mean, he probably wouldn't have helped us that much on the basketball court and the playoffs, but his presence was huge.

So I think everybody needs that. Perkz is also good if anything happens in a game or there's some bad blood in the series. Perkz still plays some good post-defense, but there's not many post-up players. Do you feel vindicated that Scottie Brooks is doing so well in Washington? Because you were mad at everybody that was saying that he wasn't doing a good job for OKC. And I think I might have been one of those people. I wasn't.

I mean, honestly, you got to critique how you're going to critique. But I was mad at the fact that a lot of people tried to come to me like I was going to bash my coach. The writers? Yeah. A lot of people, when I came out and said that at All-Star Weekend, I was just irritated because like, why would you ask me about my coach getting fired like I'm going to agree with you? Right.

You know what I'm saying? Somebody I've been through the trenches with, like finals, conference finals. We shared some special moments you know i'm saying i'm not gonna i'm not gonna bash my coach you know i'm saying so that's why i got upset you can't you can say whatever you want you got to critique them that's your job but don't come to me with that because i'm not going to agree with you who'd you get upset at i can't some writer some guy and i think everybody just happened to pick it up i don't even think this guy is i think he just i think i't even think he has a blog or anything.

I think he's just there. Just wondering. And somebody else picked it up. He's definitely really good at dealing with young players. Because if you look at the young guys on D.C., I really like Oubre. I think he's my favorite bench guy in the league right now. Really? Yeah.

I went last night to the Clippers Wiz, and he was playing so hard. He's crashing the boards on the offensive boards on every play he's guarding chris paul full court like really thought he could shut down chris paul i don't know i liked him man that was somebody i thought that was a wasted pick a year ago i well i i know uber because he came to my camps a couple years ago when he was in high school yeah and and when he was in college and um his confidence level was high yeah which is a blessing and a curse yeah his confidence was high but he played hard not something some of these some of these young cats that come into the league they like got super confidence uber confidence yeah and they just go through the motions whereas they just too cool you You know what I'm saying?

But he had a little, he had some dog in him where he was, he might foul you hard. That's how I know, actually, if a guy's, you know, young guys, they really want it. They'll foul you hard and play physical with you. Oh, they'll foul you hard. Yeah, I was playing with him and he would, like, foul me hard. And I'm like, I like that. I like that you care. You know what I'm saying?

Because a lot of these cats don't care about the game. Who else was at your camp that turned out to be lottery picks? Kelly Oubre is a pretty good guy to have at your camp. You got to bring Chuck over here. Chuck, who was in the camp? I think about 80% of them are in the league right now. Chuck's still reeling that the Raiders are going to move to Vegas. He can't talk yet.

Yeah. He's still in Moyan. Yeah, I called him right afterwards. Chuck's losing his team. I told him he could jump on the Redskin wagon. He said he might. Yeah, I'm in. Nah, you'll be with the Raiders. Who's in the camp, Chuck?

That was pretty good. Harrison Barnes, Austin Rivers. Harrison Barnes was in your camp? Chandler Parsons. Oh, wow. You should have given Chandler the speech about the ladies. Chandler is a...

He's a legend. Chandler Parsons is the NBA legend now. Just an Instagram. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had some players. I think Harrison Barnes was probably the best time we had. Jabari Parker. Jabari Parker, Anthony Davis.

Anthony Davis? Yeah, andari Parker, Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis? Yeah. And I looked at Anthony Davis. I was like, yo, Chuck would like, yo, go over there. And Chuck would say to all the good players that they wanted me to kind of interact with, he would go. Anthony Davis was one of those guys I was like, Chuck, you serious? Look at this kid.

Like, he didn't know how to. Because at that time, he was just tall. And he didn't know what to do with it. And he was lanky and athletic. And I'm like, yeah, I want him to be a three because it was a wing player camp. And he was like, just go over there, man. And I watched him and I seen his skill,

but I didn't see this, to be honest. I might not be a good judge of talent. Well, the first podcast we did, you said your favorite young guy was Devin Booker and he just put up 70. That was pretty good. That was pretty good. That was pretty good. I didn't watch the game. We had a game that night, but...

I watched it. We called Devin Booker. Because it was my team. We wanted Devin Booker in OKC. I wanted him. I was like, man... Oh, with the lottery pick? Yeah. They took him right before. Yeah. But, yeah, we have some players, man. So yeah, most of those guys in the league now,

it's kind of weird to play against them. All right, we're going to take a quick break first to talk about Sonos when I wake up in the morning. The first thing I do, other than think about coffee and the sound of coffee brewing and the sound of me drinking coffee, is I turn on music. It completely changes the atmosphere of my home and immediately puts me in a better mood. But even with my speakers on full volume, I could never hear whatever was

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of use for details and now back to kevin Kevin Durant. You play with Lonzo. We can say that without tampering. You would have fun playing with Lonzo. Yeah, I like Lonzo. You'd get the ball if you ran the floor with Lonzo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he's a pass-first point guard. This is a great draft. I don't know if you noticed. This is getting a loaded, loaded rookie class. I'm excited because they said a lot of these classes were loaded, but once you get up here, man, it's different. It's different. It's really different.

A lot of guys I thought that were going to be superstars. I feel as though you're a superstar in the league if you're in contention to be a playoff team or even a championship calibercaliber team that can actually challenge one of these teams.

You know what I'm saying? I haven't seen that in a while. Yeah, I think you have to be, if you had just 11 average teammates, you have to be good for 45 wins if you're a superstar. That, to me, is the definition of a superstar. One safe, yeah. I need you to go 45 and 37. Yeah, you're right.

You're right. Because that means you're worth about 20 wins. Like, let's say you have a 25-win team. Yeah. You got to be, you got to be, you got to be in the playoffs. There's 20 out of the 82 games where it's like you just made the difference. Where you just took over. What's interesting is, and you know this because you've played with some of these guys.

Westbrook's MVP candidacy part of it is some people are saying like, oh, he's carrying those guys. Like his supporting cast is good. O-Tipo's good. Adams is good. Kanter's good. They just paid two guys $180 million. Right.

So, I mean, they obviously are pretty good. And they got one of the best defenders in the league and this counter is probably the sixth man of the year can be the sixth man of the year he's back in it now you gave iggy life disappeared he took your job and he's making six million a year yeah he's balling he's ball, yeah, they got a good team. You know what I'm saying? They got good pieces around them. Can we talk about the team that you've been the most impressed by this season?

In the league? Without tipping your hand too much on offending. Every time a player or a coach gets asked this, then they don't want to offend. Oh, he said San Antonio. Yeah. Houston's mad. Yeah. But has there been a team where you're like, oh, man, want to offend. Oh, he said San Antonio. Houston's mad. But has there been a team where you're like, oh, man, that team's got it going.

I'm impressed. Miami. Miami. Yeah, they're impressive. They're really impressive. They were 11 and 30. And what's their record now? They're going to be like a seven seed potentially.

Yeah, they're balling. And, I mean, they got a bunch of guys. Deion called it. Deion called it we did we tell we talked about this last night yeah we talked a little Waiters Island

but not too much Waiters Island he told us that they were going to run and I was like get out of here and they did they won like

they were like 30 and 5 over a span of a couple months so they playing well I think I think the biggest

difference with the league other than how much talent there is is like just night to night you have these teams in the middle like Milwaukee

and Miami and Portland and Denver and these teams are good you know like Milwaukee went into Boston

last night and they legitimately beat them the Celtics wanted to win they were trying to get the one seed it's not like

they were caught by surprise they knew Milwaukee was good I don't remember the middle class being this strong. It's been a while.

It'd have to be since like the 93 range. I remember 2014, we had eight teams that won 50 games. But that was on the West, though, remember? I'm just saying.

The East was, that was lopsided that year. It was, but I'm just saying that was a good year. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like if you ain't won 50 games using the lottery was lopsided that year. It was, but I'm just saying that was a good year. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you ain't won 50 games using the lottery. I remember Phoenix that year.

Yeah, they got bounced. They had the best record of any non-playoff team in NBA history. Yeah. And I was like, that's a great year league-wide. You know what I'm saying? Because we talk about parity a lot in our league. Whereas, you know, teams are getting younger. A lot of teams are tanking.

You're switching coaches every year. There's no continuity in our league now. So league-wide, the talent, the teams are down because everybody's young. A lot of guys don't know how to play the game. So much movement. Not continuity. So to see teams like Milwaukee's and Utah's, OKC's. Yeah, OKC's another one. They're playing well.

I don't want to play them in round one. I wouldn't want to play Portland in round one. Portland, Denver. I would not want to play Miami in round one. Miami. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if we're going to see like a 1-8 or a 2-7 upset,

but I do think we'll see more seven-game series than usual. Might be. Would you rather have a sweet 16, or do you like the two conferences? I like the conferences. It's traditional, man. It's just how it's always been. Yeah. You know, it's how it's always been.

We talk so much about, we get so mad. I see so many people mad about the games, not how it was in the 90s. And I kind of laugh at that. Oh, that was one of the things I wanted to ask you about. Yeah. Did Shaq versus JaVale happen before the last podcast we did? No, no. No, I didn't.

Yeah, because we talked about how the old athletes getting pissed off. They get pissed off at a lot of – they get pissed off at how their game's played now because it's new, it's different, man. It's changed. It's evolved. You know? Is that what Scottie Pippen said today? What did he say?

What? Russell's having the best year in the history of the NBA. Scottie Pippen said that? Yeah. That's because he said he wanted to get tripled up. Well, but Scottie's got some that but scotty's got some no scotty's got some michael jordan he's got some michael jordan phil bad blood there's something going on with that well that's another story so since we had that conversation

shack was super mean to jabele mcgee yeah which i just don't understand it was weird because that was like legitimately weird yeah because i because when JaVale does something, anybody on our team does something dumb, like Klay travels a lot, we all do stupid stuff. We like, first thing we say, that's going on Shaqton the Fool. And we all okay with it. Yeah. But if JaVale ain't do it, JaVale didn't make a play that night.

Like he didn't do anything that should put him on Shaqton the Fool. And he made a two-minute clip with all his bad plays since he was in Washington. And I was like, that was on call for it. That's just flat out trying to bully him. Right. And JaVale was like, that's weird. Where is that coming from? Do you got something against me?

Like, you know, for no reason he put him on. He made a whole two-minute segment on JaVale McGee. Absolute no reason. And we all, like, we understand when he do something dumb, he should be on there, just like the rest of us, just like any player. If you do something, that's what it's for. But if you don't do anything, like, why?

And so JaVale felt the way, you know what I'm saying? Because he's trying to shake that image. Because he's playing well this year, and he wants everybody to see that. And he kind of saved his career, too. Yeah. He's almost out of the league. Yeah. And I can appreciate that story.

I don't know about Shaq or anybody else. And as a good teammate, I tried to be, I came to his defense. And Shaq took it a whole other way with it. And it was funny to me because it made me realize something that a lot of these old players really think about. You know what I'm saying? Did Shaq say something about you? I don't remember.

Well, he just, yeah, he did. He did. He said that I can't talk to him because I don't remember. Well, he just, yeah, he did. He did. He said that if I can't talk to him because I haven't won a championship. And, um, which was kind of weird as well. I missed that. He said that, bro.

I thought he just told you to mind your own business. No, then he came out and said something about not winning a championship. And I was like, okay. And it was like, I can see right through that. Like Shaq's whole thing. He feels validated in life. Not just basketball, in life

because he's won a championship. Yeah. Which is, and he said a lot of players in my era, in this league now, are soft and sensitive and we can't take criticism. And because I checked the posts of the older players man because i respect these players and i want you know i want to follow their lead they laid

the blueprint out and i want to follow that you know i'm saying so i checked the post i like just i like to check the temperature on all of that stuff so it came across my desk and it kind of threw me for a loop because i'm like, first of all, Shaq didn't criticize me. So you can't say I get sensitive about criticism when you didn't criticize me, for one, which I thought was weird because you're just talking at this point. And secondly, to say I can't say anything to him about my teammate who you tried to bully for no reason, I can't say anything to him about my teammate who you tried to bully for no reason.

I can't come to his defense because I haven't won championships, which shows me that your whole life is centered around. You feel like you are someone in this world because you won a championship. For me, it ain't even about that. You know what I'm saying? If I got something to say, I'm going to say it. And if I feel like you're trying to come at my teammate, I'm going to try to protect him as best as I can.

That's what leaders are supposed to do. Shaq should have said, I averaged 35 and 15 in the finals. That would have been more impressive. But it had nothing to do with basketball. He's going to brag. He should brag about that. Lots of people won a championship. Yeah, you're bragging about what you did on the court when it wasn't even about that.

You know what I'm saying? I went off and said some things. I said Shaq wasn't skilled. I said he couldn't make free throws or whatever. I was just going off. I remember that. You made the free throw joke. Yeah, because I'm like, man, you got flaws too,

and you're just trying to pick on JaVale because obviously JaVale would never be Shaq. Right. But he's trying out here just like everybody else. So, you know, I just try to have his back on that. I really like Barkley, and I get along with him great. The one thing I don't understand with him is when he does the in-my-day stuff because basketball is involved, man.

Yeah, get over that shit, man. It's a new day basketball's involved man get over that shit man it's a new day we shoot threes now yeah we shoot threes okay the game is good we can play with y'all like it's faster now Shaq you did your thing we love what you did we don't you don't hear nobody coming out and saying um back then man nobody don't play like that that way they play they couldn't play with us you don't hear no players coming out and saying, back then, man, nobody don't play like that. The way they played, they couldn't play with us. We don't have no players coming out and saying that right now because we respect the generation before us. That is true. That would be a good way to fire back.

We don't talk badly about that. You guys couldn't play with us. Yeah, we can easily defend our generation, but we don't do that because we respect the legends that came before us. So, obviously, we're not going to do everything the way y'all did it. You know what I'm saying? It's a different game. But we still love the game just as much as y'all do.

We care for it. I understand we're making more money than y'all did. We wouldn't make this much money if it wasn't for y'all. I'm reading his comments now. It just sounds the same. It's stupid. I mean, Barkley's generation shouldn't be mad about the money. It should be the Oscar Robertson generation.

They should be the ones that should be just pissed off all the time. Oscar's making like $75,000 a year putting up triple doubles. We only demand what the market tells us we should get. If they say we should make $100,000 a year, we're going to be fighting for who can get the $100,000. That's just how it is. They're giving us $30 million a year. What you want us to say?

No? We don't want it. You don't think Brent Musburger's mad at Bill? Brent Musburger. I called him money. He made a lie. I'm kidding, man. So, like, we want to feel like we want to –

it's not enough for these players that reach out and just, like, want to mentor. You know what I'm saying? It's, like, not the superstar players. Like, they don't want to mentor because they still got this little competitive, this fake competitive. I'm trying to look at it from their side, though, because like. I don't understand it.

Well, like Magic is somebody that I think, I worked with Magic for a year and it was great. Magic makes a lot of money. What are you going to be mad about? No, I don't think he. So he's not looking back like, man, I'm mad at these guys. These dudes, it all stems from money, bro. That's my thing. It all comes from money.

Magic really treasures when the guys come to him. He loves it. He loves when they ask him for advice. Yeah, when you make that much money and you live in a great career. But Shaq made like $400 million. But Shaq just go on TV and try to clown people. I'm talking about like the, I'm talking about, like, the Barclays and the. Yeah.

And who else? Who else out there that we talk, that T-Mac. Oh, T-Mac, yeah. Just, like, why are you so mad? Like, T-Mac, I loved you. Like, you were the reason why I played basketball. And, like, you just taking Reggie Miller. Like, I'll just take shots at us for no reason.

I understand. It is a reason. They might be, they might feel a way. But, like, you just take shots at us for no reason. It is a reason. They might feel a way, but you get more respect from us. I feel that if you try to... We want to learn from y'all. We want to take some of the stuff that y'all did and try to help. We want that knowledge. I would love to just

sit down, have a glass of wine, and just talk basketball with T-Mac or Reggie Miller. Me, I don't know about the other players and my peers, but I would love to just sit down and talk basketball with T-Mac or Reggie Miller. Me, I don't know about the other players and my peers, but I would love to just sit down and talk basketball with y'all, talk schemes, tell me some stories about how, you know what I mean? I love that shit. You know what I'm saying?

So it's like, why is it a feud between the older generation and the younger generation? Like, it don't make no sense. Sometimes when I get upset about these college kids, like, I wouldn't do that. Like, I got to realize it's a new day. Yeah. Things are changing.

People are changing. You wouldn't answer, you're going to the draft like five minutes after your team lost? I wouldn't have did that, but I don't have a problem with it. You know what I'm saying? Stuff that I wouldn't have did, they doing now. We're talking about Lonzo, by the way. Yeah. I didn't love that he did that.

I would have mourned the loss for like an hour. I'm sure he thought about it, but now he's looking at the big picture, and that's what these kids do nowadays. They look at the big picture, so you can't get mad at them. What's the best criticism you've heard of yourself from one of the guys on TV? I don't even know what the best is. I just know you can just feel the energy. You know what I'm saying?

They don't even want to look at you no more. Before, they would embrace you. you mean at the games and stuff all-star weekend games like you know you know what's the best story i'm not going to name names when um do we do we can do we have to get rich just tell them the story about you tell when you was talking about how the player came up to you and you was like yo he kept it so real oh yeah yeah yeah yeah oh you know you're killing you on, he kept it so real. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yo, he was killing you on TV. Let me say his name. I don't know.

I mean, it's up to you guys. I don't know. What do I care? I don't care. I mean, I respect him, but he did kind of do some shady shit to me. So we played in Vancouver, first game. First game in the Warrior uniform. And I see James Worthy walking out. I've seen him walking as I was leaving first game. First game in the Warrior uniform. And I see James Worthy walking out.

I've seen him walking as I was leaving the game. And James Worthy, I'm like, man, that's a legend here. Big game James. Big game James. He's like, he a legend. I didn't get to see him play, but I just know all about him. So as I was walking, you know, I'm a little, I'm giving you a whole back story. I'm like a little skeptical at

this point to even talk to anybody that from the generation before because i don't even know how they feel about me as a person as a player because these dudes they look at me it's like oh you're switching teams you're chasing this you're chasing that so i'm like i'm just gonna keep it moving but he was like man don't worry about that stuff. People change jobs every single year, every single day. Don't worry about that. Just go out there and, you know, keep working and go win. That was nice. So I'm like, man, that's nice.

So I came back home that night, and my boy, Randy, I was like, man, James Worthy was cool, man. He showed me so much love, man. I appreciate that. He was like, huh? He was talking so bad about you on TV. was cool man he showed me how he showed me so much love man I appreciate that he was like huh he was talking so bad about you on TV like he was saying magic wouldn't have did that or I wouldn't have did that I was like yo stop selling out stop selling people stop selling your brothers out

man this is a fraternity stop selling this out for these for NBA TV and Turner Sport and ESPN stop doing that man didn't come in my face talking that nonsense. Like, I really was like, I really fooled with him. You know what I'm saying? Like, damn, I really appreciate that. You know what I'm saying? Because that's when I was like, first time I got booed every time I touched the ball. First time when they called my name and starting lineups, the whole arena booed me. So I'm like, damn, this is new.

Then I see James Worthy, a legend. I'm like, damn, that's cool, man. I appreciate that. Then I get that, man, he was talking so bad about you, Magic wouldn't have did this. Jordan wouldn't have did that. I don't know why he, I'm like, man,

so corny. If you want to keep it one way, just keep it one way, man. Don't come to me with that BS. What about the, do you ever hear the first take stuff

and on that whole culture? Is that stuff like popping in Twitter replies? Yeah, people come to me all the time. You hear what such and such said about you? You can't dodge that stuff nowadays. That's why I'm like, if I hear it, it's not because I'm sensitive.

If I talk about it, that don't mean I'm sensitive. It's just that I hear it and I take it on the chin and I roll with it. That's a part of the game. Do you think players, you think that stuff bothers them? What's the reaction like around the league? I don't think it bothers them to the fact that it affects their work. It's just the fact, it's just like, who are you to talk when you have no clue how it is?

Yeah. You talk about don't say nothing until you win the championship. You have no, you don't even know what it feels like to get your name called or to put a jersey on. And that's what kind of gets us. Me, for a fact, it's like, you don't even know

so how can you talk about a championship or what I should say or how I should approach anything when you have no clue what it takes to even get to my level

but I don't think it affects anybody's work not at all if anything it's just more I feel like it's becoming pro wrestling like today

I was watching I actually like Max I know him. He's a good guy. And Stephen A I've always gotten along with. Max and Stephen A are on together. And Stephen A sometimes he'll say stuff for effect, to say the least. Obviously, yeah.

You got to stay on. But today they're like, I think there should be co-MVPs. The NBA should give out co-MVPs. I'm like, co-MVPs? That's not original. What is this, like youth soccer? You're going to give everyone a trophy? Pick a winner.

That's not even original. Kobe said that. So you're going to say it because Kobe. You don't even have a pulse because you're not in these locker rooms. You're not even at these games. You're just sitting behind your desk. If Kobe wouldn't have said that, I guarantee nobody would have even took that and ran with it.

Let's just give out co-champions. Let's not have the finals. Somebody got to win and somebody got to come in second place. That's just how it is. Who would you vote for? I'm not even going to get into that. Yeah, I had to ask. A lot of people are sensitive about that, so I'm going to just let it ride.

Whoever wins, congratulations. Welcome to the club. I am not deciding. I have a vote, and you don't have to hand it in, I think, until the last day. I'm waiting till the last day it's a great season i want to i want to see the last eight games but you gotta look at the whole body of work though i'm still i think you're my you're gonna be my second team on mba i'm not just saying that because we've done two podcasts i look i actually did the research i don't really

i don't i don't i know you don't care I'm just telling you I'm telling you the mindset of somebody who votes I I mean look I I mean I was second team I was second team on NBA last year and I was I was pissed about it so it's not like I'm excited to be second team I feel like I'm the best player so you played 59 games so what so I look back at the history of the NBA and it seems like you have to get over 55 to be considered. And I was surprised by how many dudes are in like the 58 to 63 range who made first or second team. So I felt I felt better about that. That would be cool. But I'd rather be first team.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's because of the injury. Yeah. But I'm just saying. Do you pay attention to that stuff, though? What? Like, do you ever look at, like, basketball reference and go see, like, oh, this guy did eight at all NBAs? Hell, yeah.

The only person I really looked at growing up was, like, I wanted to beat Steve Francis in every category. Steve Francis? Yeah. Oh, man. We come from the same area, and he was the guy around my area. So if he had, I think he had six all-star games. Yeah. Once I hit seven, I was like, I got you.

Once I got All-NBA every year since my third year in the league, I got him. Since I won MVP, individually, I got him. So that was my goal, to be Steve Francis. As weird as that sounds, but it's something I had in mind since I was young. I really like the All-NBA because when I was doing my basketball book and I'm trying to figure out years and eras and compare people against each other and all that stuff,

the All-NBA was really useful. It's like a nice little snapshot of every year there's going to be between seven to seventeen guys that were really the guys for that season. And it's really useful to be like,

you know, Karl Malone was... Who votes on that? Right now, right now it's the media. I thought the coaches did that this whole time. The coaches don't do that now.

I thought since, I thought the coaches did that up until last year. I think the coaches vote for... Last year, I, um... They do All-Star. Once it came out,

I was like, they said the media voted for it. They do All-Star reserves, right? Yeah. The best thing that happened for the they said they're media votes yeah the best thing that happened for the voting was they put

the votes online because people were just using it to settle agendas you know they're doing the MVP

and not putting somebody in the top five who should have been in the top two and like four years ago

they just started putting everyone's votes oh yeah and if somebody starts messing with oh yeah that's good starts messing with oh you can see each media

member oh yeah that's good accountability it's definitely we need we needed it that's good for y'all we gotta bring rich in no it's fine i like this i just you know every mvp vote you can see every media member everything that's pretty cool oh yeah that's why i don't understand it's like game 60 and people are who, who's the MVP? You got to wait. Who's winning? It's like all these seeds are in play. Kawhi's the MVP.

Well, is he going to be the one seed or the two seed? Every week is something new. I mean, Steph is like, Steph, what's wrong with Steph? Oh, Steph's not the same. Oh, Steph's doing great. Yeah, because it's the season. You go up and down. You have hot streaks.

You're going to have a great month. What was the best month you ever had? Probably February of 2014. Oh, I vaguely remember this. You were like 35 a game. 35. And I was shooting over 50%. I was like seven rebounds, six assists.

I remember this. It was 2014, right? I was like seven rebounds, six assists. I remember this. Game winners. It was 2014, right? I was just in the zone. MVP year. Yeah, yeah. I was on TV that year. I remember we had some crazy graphic.

Remember that game against Rhode Island? Yeah, I was in March. I was out like 50. I was in the zone then. That's when Russell was injured. So it was like I had to ball more. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't in that.

And it wasn't even more fun. Durant said best month came when Russell was injured. Nice. There's the headline. Put tape. Write that down. That's clickbait. Edit it.

Yeah, edit that. Just the whole conversation is about that. No. Come on. You know I'm kidding. No, I'm just joking. But when you get to ball more, like I was saying, I had to ball more. I mean, I had to handle the ball.

You know what usage rate is, right? Yeah. So I wrote about Westbrook four weeks ago, and I was talking about, I mean, he has the highest usage rate of anyone ever. Yeah. But he also had, like, one of the three highest assist rates ever, which is it's the assist percentage, the number of assists your team has, what your percentage is of that so normally

that's like chris paul steve nash guys like that so he's up there with those guys but then his usage rate was like with will michael jordan all these guys so he had both yeah i mean the question for me is like if somebody has the ball that much what's your ceiling as a team because basketball guys need you you know, you can't just stand in the corner for 10 minutes and then be like, all right, your turn to shoot, make a shot. It's a rhythm game for sure. It's a rhythm game.

And, but when you got somebody that good, why not give them the ball the whole time? Well, that's the thing. It's probably the best way for that team to get to 40. It was Iverson's usage rates. Iverson was like about, and he was in, he had a couple of the high ones. He was like 35, 36%. What's the highest? You had a high, last year you and Westbrook together both had high as like teammates.

Westbrook's the highest. Westbrook was like 42% this year. But like, there was a couple of Jordan seasons when he was in the mid-30s. It's an interesting stat. It's a little flawed. Get a ball to your best players, man. That's the name of the game. Give it to your best players.

Let them work their magic, especially in the league. Give it to them. Well, it seems like more than ever that's what every team is doing now. I mean, Isaiah is... So Isaiah Thomas, Boston Isaiah,

not Detroit Isaiah, his usage rate is like, you know, it would be like one of the top 20 all time. And it's not even like in the top three or four in the league because when he has the ball, he's doing something. He's just slashing kick.

He's shooting. You know, the offense runs to him. Yeah. I mean, I feel you on that. I mean, I think once the postseason comes, I think you're moving around a little bit more because you're a little bit more of the focus in the game plan. I think that's when you can be a little bit unpredictable

when a team is focused on just you and you're starting to move in more and guys are creating for you as well. I think that makes you unpredictable in the playoffs, so it may work. It's not going to matter for you. You're going to be in the corner. You're playing like 12 minutes a game. Iggy took your job. You got to

get Iggy in the parking lot or something. Just trip him. Try to get your job back. Yeah. That's the dilemma I got going into this. How can I get my job back? Do you practice your cheers? Do you wave the towel? Yes. Waving the towel. Patty Mills style. Do you do baseball?

Yeah. Study some more baseball tapes. Yeah, man. Sit in the corner. If I'm open, shoot it. You know who's unbelievable? My favorite bench guy this year is Allen Anderson on the Clippers. He's got a handshake for everybody. After every timeout, he comes back for more handshakes.

Great teammate. He's constantly loving, love, love, love, handshakes, love. And that team needs it. That's the kind of handshakes now. Who does? Yeah, it was straight. He used to be in that handshake. I was dapping up.

It's straight to the point now. It's efficient. You had one with every player in the Thunder? No, that was. That's because he was living in Oklahoma City. That was like two years ago. Two and three years ago, we had handshakes for everybody. Now, it was just like, let's just d dab up and get up out of here, man.

Let's go play. I'm glad the chest bump era is over because I really thought somebody was going to get hurt eventually with one of those. People, we've calmed down on chest bumps for the most part. People still raise the roof, though. We're starting to raise the roof a lot. I call you raising the roof. Yeah, you're raising the roof. Yeah, we raise the roof a lot, yeah.

And paying homage to Ray Allen, Jesus Shuttlesworth, and Travis Best. Oh, last thing we got to talk about. We got to talk about the North Carolina thing because Tate's been talking about it ever since we talked about it the last time, but we didn't talk about it on the podcast. What about it? Because North Carolina's in the final four. It seems relevant. Okay. You almost went to North Carolina.

You got a Demon Deacon shirt on, though. Yeah. I'm from North Carolina. For the whole state, the big four. He's UNC. Believe me, he's literally almost crying when they blew the game a week ago. Like, he wouldn't be here today. Yeah, that's crazy. No, he's UNC.

He went to Carolina. He's crazy. All right. You're wearing a Wake Forest. You got a Wake Forest shirt on. You're a traitor. You're a traitor, bro. You're a traitor.

Backstabber. But you don't like Duke. No're a traitor, bro. You're a traitor. Backstabber. But you don't like Duke. No, they all hate Duke. Do you like NC State? Wake Forest is our private school that we're cool with. You know what I'm saying? Duke and NC State are like this. This is the best.

Wake Forest Carolina are like this. No, you're supposed to like one team. No, get out of here. You know what I'm saying? No, he's all UNC. I got to back Tate. He loves UNC. So what about you?

It's adjacent. All right, I get you. He thinks Dean Smith was the most important American we've ever had. Yeah, for sure. Really? I went to his camp. You know him and Rick Barnes got into it when he was at Clemson. Yeah.

They were about to fight. Like a fist fight? Yeah. In 1997. I don't remember that. I do. All right, so you mentioned in passing to Tate how you almost went to North Carolina. And he almost passed out, and he's been talking about it ever since.

So you get to tell that story on the podcast. So you're a senior in high school. Yeah. What are your choices at that point? Carolina was one. UConn and Texas were two and two way to be like I didn't visit Syracuse no I was Carolina Yukon it's too cold Texas second on the Syracuse I had it was cold to Carolina yeah you kind of

scald at least you can was good when you were thinking about going there, right? That didn't win in the previous couple years. Syracuse was pretty good. Syracuse was always good. Yeah. But Carolina just stood out. I just wanted to go there. So why did you want to go to North Carolina? I really want to make Tate's picture right now.

I went on a visit there, actually. I went on an unofficial visit. They played Duke, and Marvin Williams hit the game. You want to remember that? I was in the stands then at the game, and I just lost it. I was, like, cheering and shit. I was, like, jumping up and down. Like, I felt a part of the program.

I was like, I'm coming here. I told my dad and my mom. I was like, I'm coming here. They was like, relax. I was a junior in high school. Me and Ty Lawson, we were there together. And I was like, I'm coming here. And so I waited.

I waited. I visited. I went through the whole process. And Roy was amazing. The coaching staff were pretty cool. You know, I hung out with Raymond Felton and McCants and Sean May right after they won the title. So, like, hanging out with them, it was like, oh. I was like damn I feel I feel the love as a Tar Heel you know I'm saying so I went and then I was like man this is where I want to be and then

I I promised Russell Springman who was recruiting me he was a coach at Texas assistant coach at Texas he I promised him I would come on a visit which back then I was mad I did but now I'm like I'm happy I did so I went on I went on a visit to Texas and as soon as I got off the plane and walked on campus I was like my gut was like this is where you need to be and I was like damn Carolina I want to go there but it's something telling me I gotta go to Texas and 10 years later my 35 is retired and is in the rafters up there so i guess i made the right decision i thought didn't it wasn't wasn't there a brandon right element to this though nah they was waiting on me i was the second best

player in the well i thought i was the best player but i was ranked number two in the country so everybody was waiting on me and i committed early too so so what could just just so tate knows for the rest of his life, what could North Carolina have done differently? Is there one thing they could have done? No. Like one MJ phone call? No, not at all.

If I wouldn't have promised Russell Springman I was coming on a visit, then I was going to Carolina. But I promised him I would come on a visit. I feel like Rashad McCants did something. Yeah, I know. I liked him. I actually liked him. I thought he was a player, like a boss.

I was like, I like how he moved. I like how he moved. He was real cool. He definitely was a boss. I liked him a lot. I liked Sean May. I liked all of them. But one MJ call for two minutes.

I wasn't really big on that. Like, MJ and... Did he call you? No, hell no. He probably didn't care. I wasn't really big on that. Well, he wouldn't have wanted anybody that good to go to North Carolina. He'd be like, yeah, you should go to Texas.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get off my lawn. But no, nobody would have convinced me to go anywhere if I didn't want to go. Wow, James Worthy. Yeah, that guy didn't go there. Yeah, James Worthy went to North Carolina. Yeah, so Texas is where it is, man. I got the 35. Did Duke try to recruit you? Yeah, so Texas is where it is, man. I got the 35.

Did Duke try to recruit you? Yeah, but at that time. You knew with Coach K. You knew not to do that. At that time, Duke wasn't playing like they're playing now. You know what I'm saying? They wasn't like get the best player of the ball. Yeah, they were running the system.

So you didn't go to Duke because of J.J. Redick. Write that down for us. J.J. Redick was a senior when I was a senior in high school, so I wouldn't have played with him. Yeah. So Duke and Duke wasn't that good the next few years after that, 2007, 2000. They weren't that good. They were done.

Yeah. They were done. They just came back around, I think, when Kyrie went there. Then HB committed to Carolina. Then they won that fluke championship. And then Kyrie came in 2011. They did not win a Fluke Championship. He hates Duke. Don't listen.

That wasn't Fluke, bro. They had a good team. Brian Zubik started it. And they had Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith and Lance Thomas. They had a good team. Lance Thomas, come on now. You're never going to get him to say anything nice about Duke. You'll never get him to say anything bad about Lance Thomas. Don't say anything about Lance Thomas.

One of my favorite teammates ever. I forgot you played anything about Lance Thomas. One of my favorite teammates ever. Oh, Lance. I forgot you played with him. Yes. One of my favorite people ever. Tate believes that when Duke has a team that's not going well, Coach K comes up with a fake injury to get away from the team. He's just a hater, man.

That's how much he hates Duke. Oh, he is a Duke hater. He's a hater. We're a Duke hater. What are you talking about? You're the biggest Duke hater I know. How mad were you? How mad?

When did they win the title? 2015? 2015, yeah. So talking about? You're the biggest Duke Kader I know. How mad were you? How mad? When did they win the title? 2015? 2015, yeah. So how about 2015 they win the title and then 2016 y'all lose at the buzzer? How bad do you feel? Yeah, pretty bad. Yeah. Stop hating on Coach K.

That's what happens when you hate on Coach. So he was debating whether to go to the Final Four or not. So he's not going to the Final Four game. Did you go last year? He feels like if he goes, he not going to the Final Four game. Did you go last year? He feels like if he goes, he's going to jinx it. You didn't go last year and they lost at the buzzer. His brother went, so he feels responsible. You're not a fan.

I'm going to go Monday. He's going to go Monday if they make it. He doesn't want to swing it. Who will they play? Oregon. You guys might win it this year, bro. I think you guys might win it. I like South Carolina, though.

Yeah, I know. I wouldn't be Carolina if it was Carolina. South Carolina has the guy who's very Marcus Smart-ish. Sandero Stormwell. Sandero Stormwell. He's got some Marcus Smart. I don't think he's Marcus Smart. No, I mean, he's just a badass. I like him. He's a badass for sure. I like him. I think he could play in the league. I wish I loved

anything as much as he loves the Celtics. Me? Yeah. Here comes your food. We ready? We should wrap up anyway. How long is this? 84. Oh, we're good. We're good? Yeah, we're good. What is this? Thank you. Fried mozzarella. Caprese salad.

Yeah, the food's here anyway. So when are you coming back? We didn't really 100% talk about that. Who knows? I don't know. You don't know? You don't want to make any news? Nope. Whenever I'm back, I'm back.

It's the 31st. 30th. Sorry. So the playoffs start in two weeks. 16th. 16th? Yeah. 15th, 16th.

So you think you'll be back for the playoffs? I don't know. We'll see. Hopefully I feel good. You'll be back if it's a team you want to play? I'll be back when my knee gets better. If it's Portland, you're not going to be back because you don't want to play there? You think I'm scared of Portland? That's crazy, Bill. Dave Lillard?

You think I'm scared of Denver? They got all those swingmen to throw at you? That's crazy. Actually, you're more scared of Denver, right? You have to guard Gallinari. I'm scared of Denver? They got all those swingmen to throw at you? That's crazy. Actually, you're more scared of Denver, right? You have to guard Gallon, Harry? I'm scared of it. I'm scared of it. I'm scared in general.

I think I might just call it quits. Maybe you should sit out. Let Iggy handle it. Come in for the finals. Right. Catch and shoot, man. Catch and shoot. Is there

Is there any chance I guess it would be Portland or Denver Versus Golden State Yeah I think that's it Only two teams That can

And then you would play The 4-5 in round two Yep Which could be Utah Which could be Clippers Open all the city I think the Clippers

Are gonna I think Clippers Utah Clippers Utah I mean the 4-5 I went So I saw Clippers The half game out, man. Yeah, a game.

A whole game. We're wrapping this up. Kevin Durant is always a pleasure. So next time we do this with Perkins? Yep. We'll fly him in. Oh, you're going to have to come on our podcast with Perk. Oh, I like it.

Okay. I like that, though. That's news. We just. What's your podcast? I don't know. We can't tell you that. What are you talking about?

You guys say I'm already out. No, you're in. You're a guy. We mean, Park and Musburger. All right. There you go.

Kevin Durant. Thank you. Good luck with the recovery. Appreciate it. All right. That's it for the podcast. If you missed out the other BS podcast this week, we had Steve Nash and we had Chuck

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