The Bill Simmons Podcast - Knicks Fever, Kawhi Problems, Draymond’s Defense, and Phoenix’s Ceiling With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Eastern Conference opening after some injuries, the Knicks taking a 3-1 lead over the Cavaliers (1:19), Hawks-Celtics, the strange Bucks-Heat series, and not feeling great about the 76ers even after sweeping the Nets (20:38). Then they discuss the Warriors' exciting Game 4 win over the Kings, Lakers-Grizzlies, and Dillon Brooks antics (48:05), before talking Clippers-Suns, Kawhi's injury, wondering about the Suns full potential, and more (1:11:51). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, just an absolute shitload of basketball. Oh yeah. And we're solo. It's all next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us.

Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the

great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lights today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on prime all season long. Watch prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays. The biggest goals can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL is best. They're all on prime prime Monday Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. We're also brought to you by the Ringer

Podcast Network, where I put up a new episode of the Prestige TV Podcast. Me, Sean Fantasy, Joanna Robinson. We went to Norway for episode five of Succession. Not really. We went through our TVs. But we tackled a very, very, very entertaining

episode, and we gave each other a half liter of blood. So there you go. You can go listen on the Prestige TV podcast. I have new rewatchables coming on Monday night. And I will just tell you this, my co-host is Kyle Brandt. You know what that means. You know what that means, my friends.

We're going back to either the 80s or the early 90s and it's going to be an action movie. Oh yeah. So there you go. Coming up on this podcast, the one, the only Ryan Rosillo, and we have a lot of basketball to cover. Let's get to it. First, our friends from ProJet. All right, taping this, it's a little before 7 o'clock Pacific time on Sunday. The Boston team's hit the trifecta today. Bruins, Red Sox, Celtics, 3-0. My dad is pumped. I just had a giant cup of coffee.

Rosillo, I'm ready to talk between two to seven hours about all the basketball we watched over the weekend. The big thing for me, big picture, we're going to do Warriors, Kings later. We'll do a little Lakers. We'll do all the injured stars. There's so many storylines. I'm just looking at the East

and the fact that even today we're taping this and they've had press availability for the Bucs and they don't seem to know if Giannis is playing tomorrow or how healthy is what happened with his back. And you look at the Celtics who the Bucs was the big kahuna they had to get over. You look at the Knicks who thought, oh, it'll be great if we win one round. And now they're like, whoa, we might win a round and get to play Miami in round two, a team that everybody thought was dead after the first playing game. And then if we beat them somehow,

there are the Celtics waiting for us who we already know we can play with and we beat a couple times. The East feels more wide open than ever. So, Russillo, we thought the West was going to be the one that's wide open. I feel better about what's going to probably happen in the West than I do in the East. The East feels even more wide open now.

What are you looking at? I wouldn't say I necessarily feel better about the West because the thing I thought the best about was Phoenix, which was still a risk to go. And now, even though they're up 3-1, I know we're going to get to that series a little bit later. I think it just adds to the confusion of what this season is. Because you're right. It's funny, the Miami part of it, where I'm on year two of going, come on, seriously? And then I just didn't think they were that good this year offensively. They didn't shoot it very well.

You watch their talent deficiency against the really good teams. And look, Giannis isn't playing. So that's why we're looking at this but game two i thought was like the real version of this series even without yannis they score 84 points in the first half you're like okay enough of this shit like it's over heroes hurt and i don't know if it's milwaukee feeling like we know we're getting yannis back or you know what we smoke these guys in game two, they're not good enough. I will contend, even if Milwaukee ends up losing this series without Giannis, with Brooke Lopez or Drew Holiday, with Chris Middleton, who I think is pretty much back, and Bobby Portis, who would be a starter, maybe not as many teams as Reggie Miller would say,

but sixth man of the year nominee here, that that should be enough to beat the Miami Heat, who now lose Oladipo, who wasn't a huge part, but it was at least an option on the random night, maybe get you 15 points, right? Well, and no hero, too. They lost two of their top nine, two guards. I don't know if it's both a credit to Miami and the reality that Giannis isn't there.

So game four actually means a ton for me to see. I still am not ready to believe that this is actually going to happen, but back to the Giannis part't there. So game four actually means a ton for me to see. I still am not ready to believe that this is actually going to happen. But back to the Giannis part of it, we think he's superhuman because he looks superhuman all the time. These guys land so fucking hard. They get up every time. And he got smashed on the way down. And that he left the game. And we're like, oh, he's back.

He's good. And it's like, no but he didn't look good yeah he didn't look good at all and he kept trying to play and then like when he had the ball he had one play with the basketball in his hands was like okay he's fine because that's what everybody does when they get the ball they're like their peak effort and then every time away from it it was really bad so if you're telling me Giannis is done, not only does it make me rethink Miami and what they're possible of, but you're right. Every other team, whether it's Philly, whether it's Boston, or even New York should be going, well, wait, this is the whole point of

these playoffs. Can you find a way to survive? Because we know the stories, as you mentioned in your book and every single season you go through it, the stories are told as much by the winning teams as it was by the guys that got hurt. And we're off to another terrible start health-wise. And whether he's done or compromised, he's clearly not a hundred percent. I think that the surprising thing for me is just, he was like, you know, peak LeBron for those years and years when LeBron was in his prime, where it just seemed impossible that he would even get hurt. I used to make the joke about if his leg came off on a dunk,

he would just put it back on and be fine. You're even seeing this now with the plantar fasciitis that he's playing with where you figure in year 20 that should be a season ender and it just wasn't. So for Giannis to be actually hurt feels like something.

So I want to talk about the East a little bit. Started with the Knicks. But we both don't know anything, right? We don't know anything, but the buzz isn't awesome. Right. I don't think it's getting put out there like, no, he's fine. He'll be back.

It's not like that at all. It doesn't seem like that anyway. Because I remember in the 2021 run, you know, he turned his ankle and you were like uh-oh you're like man is the Atlanta gonna get through here and then okay he's fine again so yeah I mean obviously it's significant enough but I think a lot of us and I'm telling you I don't know anything so I'm not gonna write him off and say oh he's because that'd be stupid but uh I don't know if if Milwaukee in the decision making with Giannis looked at Miami the way I kind of looked at him.

I was like, whatever. But then game three should be a massive wake-up call. So I think it tells us if he's not back for four, then it's like, okay, this is significant enough. And it wasn't just them saying, whatever, we're 1-1. We figured it out in game two. We'll get them in game three down there. They're not that good. And now they're down and they're the favorite.

This was the betting favorite in the entire league. And we're a week into this and we don't know what to make of it. The Knicks, they look like they're going to finish off the Cavs and we'll get into all the reasons. But I went through, I asked some Knicks fans in my life because the Knicks fans in my life overjoyed is not a strong enough word. I would use words like orgasmic, euphoric, delighted, pinching themselves. I looked it up. I think this is the single best Knicks weekend in like the last, maybe the 21st century, going back until you have to go back to like the 2000 playoffs. I did all that.

I went back through every playoffs and they really had, there's not a lot to look at. But Memorial Day weekend, 2000, they were down 2-0 against the Pacers. And they won on a Saturday and on a Monday to tie the series at two. I think that's the last fully happy weekend the Knicks have had in the playoffs. Since then, like, you know,

they lost game five in 2001 to Vince Carter. In 2013, they took a 3-0 lead against that Celtics that had already lost Rondo. In 2021, they beat Trae Young in game two. Then you go into like Lynn Sanity, Carmelo, that time he scored 60. Marbury's first home game after the trade, which felt like kind of a moment.

It's really grim. It's actually like, we've joked about the Knicks forever, but the fact that they're good, and we've joked about the Knicks forever, but the fact that they're good and that, you know, now that if you're a Knicks fan, you're like, all right, we have a puncher's chance and they're laying into this Cavs team.

They made Mitchell look like a mortal today. They got a guy in Brunson who is unafraid of all the moments, who's a culture setter, who's an end of the game guy, who's like everything they've been dying for for 30 years. And already this is a win, but now if I'm a Knicks fan, I'm starting to think a little bit bigger. How much do you like this Knicks team? ride with him and he doesn't make it any easier on himself but hartenstein who you know is just really impactful when he's out there so you get that two-headed monster but then around it you have all these different options like how many other coaches would have benched randall in the

fourth quarter today it was amazing that's huge that's huge and it was the right call but it also speaks to this depth that they've created i mean you want to talk about like the ups and downs of a season there was a lot of rumblings like a month or two in that tibbs was going to be done right they couldn't figure out the rotation. They didn't know what was going on. It's been fucking awesome to see R.J. Barrett, these two games at home, show the skill set that has a few of us. I've spent way too much time talking

about R.J. Barrett, but I think the biggest... And by the way, the crowd really, really recognizing it, pushing it, chanting for him. Today, I thought that was such a sophisticated Knicks crowd performance where it's like, who are the guys we need to get behind? RJ, every time you do

something good, we're chaining. RJ, Barrett, we are going to make you into a fucking good player or die trying. When I look at them in comparison to what Cleveland runs out there, you're like, okay.

And Grimes isn't even in the rotation right now, which has helped RJ not have to look at the bench to see when he's going to get subbed out in a big moment. But Hart is somebody you have to guard. Brunson is incredible. Quickly hasn't really done as much as you would think because he's had some huge moments. And neither has Randall. Randall's had a shit series.

But it always feels like the four people around which are the two centers they're going to use you have to guard where i think what's coming to light here in the playoffs is like the longer series go the less lies the teams can tell about their talent cleveland ends up in a lot of situations where it feels like you're only worried about guarding two guys and new york is not that and that's there's a bunch of different angles and things you can talk about with this but there's a lot of moments with Cleveland's offense where you're like, I really only have to worry about the two guards

coming off these screens because Allen's an afterthought. Mobley's still very clunky offensively. Levert's kind of hit or miss. He's not hitting shots the way he was in the second half of the season. Okoro is the guy you help off of all the time, so if he burns you in a couple shots, no problem. The Rubio minutes didn't really look, I mean, look,

they look terrible. He didn't go back to him in the second half. So you can always tell like when a coach is doing something where you're thinking like, hey, was that a mistake?

Well, he just confirmed it was a mistake because he didn't want to go back to it. So they're becoming easier to guard despite the Garland like all time performance

the first half of that third quarter today. It just feels like New York has more dudes you're worried about with the basketball on their hands. It doesn't feel like the Cavs can find six guys that they can play. And FYI,

I kept saying about Kevin Love, I don't understand why they're throwing this guy to the curb and he's playing for Miami, right? It's, I just don't get it. But with the, with the next piece,

the thing that I really love more than anything else is the fact that they go and get heart, right? We always said we do all these trade deadline shows and there's a million trades and the trades never end up being that impactful. Right? When we did, we,

I think we did two shows that day and heart was like, Oh, that'd be a good trade. We like heart. That's a, that's a nice pickup for them. It didn't seem like oh, that'll be a good trade. We like Hart. That's a nice pickup for them. It didn't seem like it would be the single most important trade deadline pickup other than KD. But I had Knick fans in my life who were like, the best thing to happen is Grimes getting,

because now they have to play Hart. Hart played 40 minutes in the game. You could argue he's the third best guy on the team. He does all the playoff stuff. The defense that he did, his rebounding, which I think is like the sneaky best thing about him. But I just love what they're, I love the demeanor. I'm so mad I didn't pick them, Rosillo. I thought the Cavs, I was like, they just have more talent. I don't understand, you know, that it would be crazy if they lost the series.

And then you watch two games and you're like, oh, the Knicks are probably winning the series. And now it seems like they're definitely winning it. The big disappointment for me is Mitchell, though. Because I felt, especially today, seemed like a classic great player spot, right? You didn't trade for me. All right, you guys had us on Friday.

We're down 2-1. Here's my great player game. And now I'm going to make you really regret not getting me. And it was the opposite. He was terrible. It was one of the worst star games of the playoffs. It's terrible. Awful.

Now, the thing is, and it's funny because I think a lot of people realize it. Like, I don't know. Like, I had a hard time leaving Mitchell off All-NBA last year. All right? And then he has that abysmal performance against Dallas in the playoffs last season where I do think his defense is connected to his offense and I saw it again for stretches today and it was totally the case like that guy just checked out against Dallas and it was a joke like really

okay you're just gonna let everybody just dribble by you're not even gonna like have a competitive part of you which is funny because I think most times he is really, really competitive. He's not like some of the other guys who I wonder if they're wired that way. And then today his offense is struggling, but you know, he's going to kind of go into some things where he's forcing it. Like there's just less actions when Mitchell's taking shots today than it was for Garland. Like a lot of standing around.

Yeah. Right. When Garland's going, it's that they seem like a more complete team. They also have no options. If Mitchell doesn't have it, it's not like the Celtics, where the Celtics can go, oh, Jalen doesn't have it. We'll just play other guys, and it'll be fine. Mitchell played 42 minutes,

and you knew he didn't have it in the first half. Just didn't seem like himself. Second half, he was awful. Two or four in the second half total. I mean, he had 11 points today, which the other thing with Mitchell, too, is had 11 points today, which, you know, the other thing with Mitchell, too, is he could go into game five

and get 40, and it wouldn't be surprising. And that's kind of how I felt like this series, like we're going to take these massive swings. But, you know, Jared Allen had the Tobias Harris game.

Yeah, although Tobias Harris is always out there. But here's Tobias Harris having a non-device harris game in their closeout he was just passing it it's it's like uh it follows he's just giving it to other people and then they deandre hunter tobias harris called each other like let's give this to jared allen mail it to him i'll fedex it well And Herter was the other one. It was like, Herter played 21 minutes? I can't remember three of them in the Kings Warriors games. Yeah. So a couple of things with the Cavs. I love Mobley and I have the most Mobley stock. I'm not selling any of it. I'll buy other people's

Mobley stock, but he's looked really raw. He's looked like a 21 year old who was in his first big playoff series that has a big spotlight on him. Offensively, just hasn't been there. Defensively, had a couple of dumb touch fouls that I didn't love the calls, but it wasn't, you know, we'll talk about some voter regret we have later. It was not a defensive player of the year performance by Mr. Mobley, as Doris Burke would say. But it's just the Knicks seem better. They're a better coach. I think there's a real Cavs coach conversation to be had. I felt it all year. I thought

Bickerstaff just got worked like a speed bag in this series so far. And it did make me think there's some good coaches that are still going to be sitting there this summer as free agents. Like Nick Nurse. Now he's available. He won a title. He made a dooka, he made the finals last year. He's going to be available. And if I was like a powerhouse coach, this would be the roster I looked at, right? Emei was linked in some reports to

Toronto. He's a possible favorite. Am I crazy? I'd much rather have the Cleveland job than Toronto. Am I nuts? Yeah, because I feel the Cleveland job than Toronto. Am I nuts? Yeah, because I feel like the Toronto guys have been there long enough that they think it's their place where Cleveland's still a little newer. You get to mold it. Yeah. I mean, the Nick Nurse part of that was, I think that job has an expiration date almost other than Spoh or Pop. Nobody wants to hear you anymore, right?

And it got pretty clear that's how it was with Nurse. But I think at times, too, there were certain things as it was going sour that I thought, all right, what's going on here? I think it's too early in this group for Cleveland to have soured on everything yet, where I thought Toronto's group kind of felt a little bit more miserable at the time.

And there was a disconnect between, hey, Nick wasn't playing enough of the younger guys which is look that's fucking the case everywhere every front office has annoyed their coaches and playing the guys that were drafting them but when you talk about bicker staff whether it's you know the rubio minutes but it sucks like some of these guys are just trying to search for that other guy and for them they know who their four is and then it ends up being chetty who's okay um they've tried to throw size at brunson with that but brunson's just so good, it doesn't matter. And I know Nick's fans got pissed when

I said that part of Brunson's game is the free throw drawing. And if you look at his overall free throw stuff, it's not as alarming as some of the other high-usage guards. But it also freaks you out as a defensive player. He's got all these herky-jerky things. Even Nekoro talked about it at the beginning of the series,

trying to get that in the ref's head. But the thing that I didn't really like today, on top of, you know, all the different things we – the third personal foul on Garland happened at 637 of the second quarter. He buried him. He didn't put him back in the game. And if you're going to take him out, and you still are searching for who that other perimeter guy is,

and that's what I also don't understand. I'm glad like Van Gundy went on this rant, is that foul trouble should not be a blanket thing up third foul by this minute. It should be about the player. And if you're a perimeter player who has three fouls on him with six minutes to go, and you're arguably the most important player on the team today, he was to just punt on that last six and a half minutes when, you know, all you have to do is, hey, I'm not going to reach.

I'm not going to try to get a block charge. You know, I'm not going to swipe at anybody on an offensive rebound. Curry would have stayed in. Curry's not taking Curry out with three fouls because he knows he's going to know how to play. Look, there's a lot of stuff that went wrong in that game. One of them was like, maybe the two bigs just aren't working against this Knicks team.

Uh-oh. It's the wrong matchup. It just is. I wanted to see Mobley with a smaller lineup and being able to play. I liked when they had Okoro and Levert out there

guarding Brunson. At least they're taller and they can make them work a little bit. But I would have wanted to see the two guards with Levert and Okoro and Mobley gone smaller. It's not like the Knicks. They were winning on the rebounds anyway. They were out rebounding the Cavs as it was. It's not like the Knicks, they're winning on the rebounds anyway. They were out rebounding the Cavs as it was. It's not like they have post players that can make them

hump it. It was just there was no experimentation. It felt like Bickerstaff was, oh no, things are going to turn around for us. I'm watching it. It's like the Knicks are just, if you're going to just play this way you played all year against the way the Knicks are playing now, you're going to lose. You're not winning a game in MSG. And they might actually lose game five too.

Nothing would surprise me. Would you be that surprised if Cleveland and Mitchell went off and won game five? I wouldn't be surprised if they won game five, but I would be shocked if they won the series. I think the Knicks are better. When you think they got nothing from Randall this whole series, they're up 3-1. I think the Mitchell piece of this is so fascinating from a Knicks standpoint that they end up with Brunson as the consolation

prize. People seem pretty split on whether it was too much money or not. I think everybody liked the player, but they're thinking they're going to get Mitchell or somebody else. I didn't think he'd beat anybody. I didn't think he'd be closing out playoff games and like be unguardable.

And so go ahead. Well, I just think that, you know, it was another summer where it was like, oh, we didn't get the guy we wanted. Right. That was how we left the summer. And the guy that everyone wanted, they're kicking his ass in a playoff series with the guy that people are like,

yeah, he's a good player, but I, I kind of wish we had also gotten the other guy. Um, it's just crazy how it worked out. And again, I thought Mitchell was going to be awesome today. And I voted from first team, all NBA, which I think you did too. Yeah. And, uh, to me, this was a first team all NBA game and he just sucked. So we'll see. We'll see what happens at gate five. All right, quick break and we'll talk to Celts. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention,

and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember.

When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all.

Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See, safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up?

Really? Really, really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, quickly, ripping through the rest of the East, and then we'll hit the West. Celts Hawks. Really good Celts.

Maybe two years ago, they lose this game. Maybe even last year, they might blow it, but there's enough of a playoffs DNA now. Tatum doesn't have a great game. I texted you at the beginning. I was like, I think Tatum's going to have a huge game. He did not. Jalen, again, was the one who stepped up because Tatum wasn't stepping up.

And Jalen, this is why I voted for him for 13-mile NBA. He is a knack. There's this seesaw thing. When Tatum doesn't really have it, you always see Jalen kind of step up in the second half of these games. He was awesome on both ends, in the fourth quarter especially.

Jalen has this cut in his hand that it seemed like he hurt three different times during the game. And it's like one of those things in college where your buddy fell down the stairs and has a huge gash in his leg and didn't get stitches for it. And like two days later, you're like,

dude, that thing's still bleeding. He said, no, no, it's fine, man. I talked to my mom. And then like two days later, you're like, dude, that thing's still bleeding. I said, no, no, it's fine, man. I talked to my mom. And then like three days pass and you're playing pick up hoops and it's just the blood's trickling down his legs. Like, what's up with that cup, man? Did you get that checked out? I said, no, no, it's fine. It's fine.

I'm going home for Thanksgiving. Yeah, I'm going home. My stepmom's a doctor. So when I go home, she's going to check and see if anything's wrong. And then another week passes and all of a sudden it's like, yeah, what happened to Bob? Oh my God. You didn't hear about Bob? He had an infected cut.

He's in the IR. The Jalen thing over and over. He's looking down at his hand. He's got this big bandage on it. My dad mentioned when he went to the two home games. He's like, I don't know what's going on with Jalen's hand. It's like the bandage is way bigger in person. He dunked today. And then he's looking at one point there was blood trickling down his hand. And I'm not supposed to

be worried about this at all. Apparently this cut between his fingers, that was five stitches that reopened during game one. And it's just, I guess, going to be a subplot of the playoffs. Jalen Brown, just bleeding every game. Yeah, it definitely didn't get enough attention as it probably should have. It's a shooting hand. It was like, what, his hand is cut open and he can't play? Yeah. Wow, that bandage looks big.

It's going to be fine? Yeah, yeah, he'll be fine. I mean, the weird thing is his handle is exactly the tightest, so you can't really... He had one turnover late, and then the ball ricocheted back to him and he got the dunk. Towards the end of that game. I'm like,

are we, are they going to blow this one? Um, because that would have been an awful loss. I, I felt like games one and two were so easy for him that I kind of felt like game three was coming, you know,

where the Hawks shot the lights out. I didn't get mad about it. It was one of those, the Celts are either winning by 20 or the Hawks are going to shoot 60%. It's going to be one of those games. Yeah, because for a while, I was like, wow, they're going to sweep this team?

Because I almost never think anybody's going to sweep anybody anymore because I think human nature now with basketball players is like, hey, these guys suck. We got them. Well, and the threes make it hard too because in five games,

you're going to make threes in one of the games. Right. And then, or when your bench doesn't miss a shot combined for the entire first half although boston was lighting it up from three two so you can't just say hey look trey young for all the time we talk about him what he did at the end of game three the way he's capable of doing that he's probably the best one of the best i've ever seen coming off that screen and throwing a lob on the run which you know a lot of times

smaller players throwing against guys like you're just lost but even today it was funny uh as i look up i'm like how the fuck is atlanta still in this game it's 108 101 with five and a half to go slaves by boston and then hunter just made five shots in a row and the free throws they've done a pretty good job and i feel like this can happen in a series where somebody who kind of lives with free throws which is what trey does i mean he mean, he took almost nine a game in the regular season, which is the second most he's ever averaged for a game in any season of his career. But he was around six and he also wasn't shooting it well. And there can be a little turn taking, but when he is playmaking the way he was at the end of game three, it was great. But then when I looked at that score, I'm like, how is this still a game? Boston clearly felt like the superior team today.

Atlanta had nine free throws the first six and a half minutes of the fourth quarter. They were two of 13 from the floor in the fourth quarter, and they're still in a game with a team that's better than them. So the game. Go ahead. Did this game make you the last two games make you feel a little better about Trey Young? Because I was at the point after game two where I was like, wow,

if this series isn't that far away from, if they get swept and it's bad, he's not gonna be in the team next year. Um, the, the thing with Trey that I think is so interesting is we almost got sold the wrong bill of goods for what he was, you know,

it'd be like if a quarterback came into the pros and was like, this guy's a running quarterback. And then he just never ran. Trey was supposed to be this amazing shooter and he can't make a shot. It's the other stuff that he does, like the assists and the lobs, like you talked about coming off screens

and things like that, his little floater. But he really hasn't been a good three-point shooter for the last couple years. So I think what people what they think Trae Young is, like he took a couple 30-footers today. They're terrible. But for the most part, you know,

there's enough there from the last two games that you at least have a trade tape now if you're shopping him. Defensively, he tried harder. He was doing the rust brick thing where he was letting the guy go buy him and then he was trying to strip the ball from behind. But I feel better about him

after game four than I did after game two. How do you feel? Anybody that's listened to me long enough knows. If I don't like a player, it doesn't mean I think they're going to get zero points in every game for the rest of their career. He shot

at 38% from three last year. He actually did shoot it. On the deep ones, all the times, most of his career, I would look at the deep ones going, why is he doing that? It also just seems to piss off the other four guys because it'd be early in the shot clock and it's like he's sort of feeling himself.

This year, the shooting numbers are bad. In this series prior to today, well, actually, his overall numbers, I mean, I don't know the last time I checked, but at one point, it was like 5-17. Then he hit a bunch of shots late, but it's really the playmaking. He finished 11 for 26,

but he was 9 for 24 and made two threes at the end that meant nothing. Yeah, they had three garbage-time threes that made the score look a little better. Look, everybody knows my issues with it is that it's the overall package, but it doesn't mean because of the overall package. I don't like game three doesn't surprise me.

I mean, the only reason we're spending any time talking about him is because he actually has that in him. I just don't know that he can ever balance out all the bad decisions. Oh, I feel like doing this. The shooting has been bad in the series. The shooting has been bad this year, but he was at 38%

last season, which even sometimes I don't know. I think one year I looked it up. I'm like, why does he keep taking these step type threes? His numbers are actually pretty good on. So I was like, well, if they go in enough, then you can't really knock them for it. I actually thought they played pretty well today. The Hawks game three, whatever. It was just one of those games.

Hunter was awesome. The Celtics were in a fog. Celtics played hard in the game today and it was a fight for four quarters. It really was. I thought it was a nice test for them. And if I'm a Hawks fan, I feel better about the Hawks than I did after those two Boston games. Now, granted

you're home. I get it. But they have players. I think we both like Okongwu a lot. You like Hunter more than me, but Hunter was probably the best playoff game he's played. Bogdanovich, we've always liked as a playoff guy. I'm still not sure what Collins is if he's not hitting threes. He's been awful in the series.

He's not scoring at all. He missed. I mean, his number today, one of nine, one of five from three at five points. He had five rebounds in 25 minutes, so Quinn was kind of bailing on him. But I think Quinn wants to go with Bay because of his shooting. They're trying to, against the double bigs, pin one of them into

the corner to respect whoever their corner guy was, whether it was on the ball or the weak side. The problem, the thing I'll keep seeing about Atlanta is even though they played hard, I thought the crowd was awesome there today. They were hanging on. They're not as good, but there'll be combinations, whether it's Murray gambling for steals. That third time he did it today was atrocious because it led right to the Jalen dump off

the Rob Williams again. Bay gets put in a turnstile all the time. Trey is a target. And it's up to him to not get worked as bad as he can. And if his shot isn't going in, sometimes he mails it in or he doesn't get back with everybody because he's bitching to the ref. There's combinations Quinn has where you'll feel like there's two or three guys that are real vulnerable on the perimeter defensively. And that's when I think when Boston goes, all right, enough of this. Let's keep attacking those guys.

And they get past them whenever they – I can't say whenever they need to, but more often than not in this series, it's felt like when they go to that, they can get past a lot of these dudes. So I've always liked the talent. I do think it's a talent team. It's not new for anybody that's listening to it. But I don't think all of the long-term concerns go away because they won three and were competitive in four.

I don't know. How could you run a team that way? That's enough Hawks talk. I think they're in better shape than they were after game two, but we did enough. We did enough Hawks. Celts. Did you notice how Marcus was out for a big chunk of the fourth quarter

and white was in with Brown and Tatum and the two bigs. And I was texting, uh, with the Celtics fan friend of mine and we were like, Whoa, like four minutes, Mark Walbert, Marcus,

three and a half minutes left. No Marcus. They, they finally, they finished the game off. I think they're up 11 or nine or whatever under half minutes left. No Marcus. They finally, they finished the game off. I think they're up 11 or nine or whatever under three minutes left. And then he puts Smart in for White.

To me, that's the most interesting. There's two fascinating Celtics subplots for me as they need 13 more wins now. One is, can Rob Williams stay in the court? And the other is, this white Brogdon thing. Is there going to be a game where it's obvious smart shouldn't be one of the five

that's out there? Is it going to be a game where Joe says, fuck it and just keeps him out? And I thought today was going to be the game and then he was smart enough to realize,

ah, we're going to win. I'm going to bring smart back in so this doesn't become an issue. White has been awesome in game one, two, and four. He was awesome. Game three, not as good, but nobody was good.

But I do think he's the best guard in the team. And as we keep going in this playoffs, especially if they play the Knicks and Brunson, I just think that's a subplot. And then can Rob make it three more rounds? It's the other one.

By the way, Horford was 0-2 today, but he did get some rebounds and some assists, but they put big minutes on him. And it was the first game today where I thought he looked a whiff old in the second half because he is old. He's 37. So those are my Celtics thoughts for you, Rosillo. Yeah, it was a seven- point game at one point Horford grabs

the offensive rebound there late it was huge Bogdanovich fouls him you know then Quinn got Bogdanovich out of there you know another thing too like we were talking about with Cleveland going alright maybe I can get some Rubio minutes you're like nope like Jalen Johnson if you really dig into it at the best it looks really nice you know this young player with all the size who

has a lot of skills and then Brogdon was like, are you serious? It went right by him whenever he needed to. Brogdon's had some awesome stretches. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't really have a ton to add to the Celtics thing other than we all know what's at stake. Like if Rob Williams is healthy, they can.

Yeah. I feel like they're the betting favorite depending on what happens here with Giannis. Well, let's move to Miami and Milwaukee then. We didn't talk about the Miami piece of this. Even I gave up. And I was driving the zombie heat bandwagon. I was probably the most afraid of them other than Mike Shore. I've texted about them more than any non-Celtics team.

I was just waiting for them to wake up. And then that first playing game, it seemed over. Then they rallied back. I don't know what to make of it other than I think Spolstra is a really good coach and they have a couple good players. And if Duncan Robinson,

who showed signs of life in that last game, if he can kind of get going a tiny bit, I could see them patching this together if Giannis was hurt. I thought they were done. I was ready for a whole Miami blowing it up summer and all that stuff. It doesn't seem like it's happening. But what did you, did you see anything from them in these Bucs games that made you think that we evaluated them incorrectly?

No. This is three games versus 82. So, I mean, you're telling me they had a switch? You know, they had some magical switch that they turned on here? No, I don't. I mean, they brought Duncan Robinson back in because they had to with

no hero. They're like, Duncan, we're out of options, buddy right do you think you can make an open three please butler does seem to have something in him we wish more players had in him you know when uh when when stuff matters like he's the ultimate fighter he really is and i thought at game three the start of that one was like hey milwaukee you guys know you're in the fucking playoffs? Because Jimmy Butler does. And Butler was asked, I listened to an interview with him before the series even got started.

And a lot of the times that stuff's just bullshit. And I don't even blame the players because it's just, all right, you're going to say all the same stuff. But with Butler, it felt more real. He's like, hey, look, clean slate. Let's go. Let's see what happens. It was almost like, yeah, we know.

We know they're the one seed. We know they're better than us. We know we didn't have a great record. We know we have some issues. But I'm not here for any of that. We're going to throw it up and see what happens, and let's go. And with Butler, I believed it. I believed it. Even though it's the right thing to say, and plenty of other players could have said it, I believed it. But I still, like we said at the top, this Milwaukee group, with the pieces they have,

even without Giannis, they shouldn't lose to this Miami team. But maybe this is all the things we just talked about. Ingles, tough career spot. I wouldn't say he's 100% recovered from his injury. Crowder last year didn't look great. Wes Matthews like he he kind of going down the line

and it it reminds me of one of those like 2000s playoff teams where they just grabbed a bunch of old guys

and threw them at this one position hoping one of them would stick the Celtics did that during like the Michael McHale-Piatra season

it was like hey have you have you ever played wing in a playoff series would you like to play 15 minutes a game

for us? Going to the Philly series. Real quick, Miami-Milwaukee draft. You go right now. Of the remaining play, take Giannis out. Take Giannis out. Who would be the first pick? Butler. Are the next four picks Milwaukee?

Now, Bam's got to be in there at some point. Over Middleton? Okay. I would have Drew second. Yeah. You could argue Bam should be third, right? Okay, all right, all right. I shouldn't have said the next four.

That's wrong. Are they four of the next five? Yeah, after that. Yeah, that is. That was stupid. I shouldn't have just assumed the next four because after that yeah that is that was that was stupid i shouldn't have just assumed the next four because the bam's bam's arguably two he's certainly three but then after that i don't know i don't know maybe that's maybe that's the whole point with it but i mean shit we were sitting

there watching the playing games looking at bam going wait a minute yeah why do you look like biz mac bianco all of a sudden what happened i'm starting to get excited. Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on. However the playoffs play out, I'm ready for the Bam Sabonis trade. Yeah. So it goes south for Miami. Sacramento can't get there against Golden State. Everyone blames Sabonis.

And then they start, somebody puts a photo of the three Kentucky guys from the 2017 team. And then all of a sudden there's a trade. I'm waiting for it. Oh no. Sabonis and Bam is the principals. Oh no.

What the hell is this TikTok camera thing? I don't know. I'm just babbling. Philly, Embiid didn't make it three games. Went down. He's just a really big guy. And a guy his size, it's just really hard to play 22 to 2,800 minutes a year, running up and down a basketball court, jumping, landing around bodies.

You know, I think we could feel it in this series because there was a clip after game three of all the times he fell down that made its way around Twitter. And he fell down like 11 times in the clip. Between him and Harden, I wouldn't say this is exactly the most durable team, but they got it. Game two, game three, Maxie was fantastic. The Nets completely choked in game

three and then kind of mailed in game four. And I don't know what to make of Philly. And if you're a Philly fan, I don't think you know what to make of it either. It doesn't seem like Embiid's going to play in game one. Seems like it's 50-50. Maybe they toss that one out because they know they're not going to go, assuming it's Boston. They know they're not going to probably steal game one in Boston anyway. So maybe you rest Embiid, give him some time. But this is kind of playing out exactly how I thought, except for the sweet part with them. I already have questions.

He made it three games, just for the record. He made it through game three. He did. The one that fell down. Congrats. Fell down all the time. That was the hard and ejection whereion where you know look uh he gets away with that off elbow his entire career but to be ejected on it doesn't make any sense to me

i'm i lean towards like not wanting anybody to be ejected uh even though well they remember they they ejected claxton in that game because he stared at him beat after a block when he had one technical already well yeah, he got kicked out. Right. Well, Draymond did the exact Draymond did the exact same thing in the game today when he blocks the bonus. Did the exact same thing second technical they didn't call.

Well, the weird thing about all the Draymond stuff, which we'll get to, is that the tolerance level for him is like your buddy that drank with his dad. You're like, Jesus, he's never hammered. He's like, well, I've been drinking in my garage since I was 15. And you're like, what?

He's Tim Riggins. Right. This guy's the best drunk ever. He's never drunk. He's like, oh, I've been doing this my whole life. I'm like, all right, congrats. So Draymond is at borderline technical every possession that he actually gets away with way more despite him always wanting to play the victim

with all of this stuff. So Claxton gets tossed. I think there was like seven minutes left. It was an awful spot, awful spot to get tossed. And yet more guys were being tossed. Right, right. You just said it reminded me of my daughter when she gets mad because we treat my son

differently than her because he's gets into trouble way more often so if she does anything she's like but what about them and then she'll list 15 times in a row with Ben and be like yeah but that's Ben you know that you're different and it's one of those things it's basically the Draymond thing where

he does so much stuff it's like the sheer volume of it. He should have been kicked out of the game today by the rules we've watched during the regular season and playoffs, but they weren't going to do that. No, not after everything that they've gone on the last couple days. The Philly series is weird because Brooklyn isn't good. We've been over this team since the trade deadline. They were packaged a different way because they hung on to that sixth seed.

Yeah. And it was like, wow, this gritty group and Bridges kind of distracted us in the fact. It's like they lost more games than they won with this group. It was very clear, especially when it becomes playoff basketball, None of them really knew what to do with the other guys. And that's like the worst case scenario for Dinwiddie. Because Dinwiddie's like, well, if you guys aren't going to do it, then I'll do it. And I know Dinwiddie's numbers actually look a little bit better overall over the four games. That's not how it felt.

Not if you watched it. Not at all. Was there some advanced metric dribble stat for him? Because I felt like there was one moment during game three or game four where it just felt like he dribbled for seven straight minutes, which I know is hard because there's changes of possession. Shot clock, yes, 24. But it felt like he was dribbling. It might have been like the bus and speed where it was put on a loop on my TV

and I didn't realize it, but I just, every time I looked up, he was just dribbling and four guys were just kind of sadly watching him. It made me wonder, why didn't we dislike that Nets team more that had Dinwiddie and Russell and Karis LeVert on it, that ball stopper team? Whoever had the ball just dribbled for

20 seconds? I feel like I didn't work up enough animosity for that group. No, i've made this joke before but like i think all three of those guys are like hey do you want to play in a way where you just never get others involved and you just you put it all on the line although i thought dinwiddie was actually a lot better with dallas like than any other point in his career where that was the weirdest group that they had had like i don't know what was going on with their their i mean it's a joke but know what was going on with their,

I mean, it's a joke, but like, what was your player development? There was a hierarchy because they had Luka and then Brunson. There was no scenario where he was one of the two best offensive players in that team, right? So he kind of fell into the right, he went to the kids table, which is kind of maybe where he should be offensively.

He wasn't allowed to sit with the adults and then they would let him run a couple of plays. And that was it. Now he's like, Hey guys, I've ordered us some food. Got us some German. You guys like sauerkraut?

How about sausages? It's like, wait, we let Spencer order again. Maybe. No, I think it's, I got everyone for you.

It's like the athlete.'s like lebron being interviewed in the locker room and he could say like hey you know me i i you know i don't even i don't even know which way to go i use well i'm a ways guy and everybody be like oh my god you're fucking hysterical versus having to do like open mic. So like Spencer Didwitty is on Brooklyn. He's the athlete not saying anything funny where the media horde is laughing with the fake media laugh. Oh, the athlete funny. This is one of my favorite topics.

Right. But Spencer Didwitty with Dallas was actually at open mic. And it's like, you're going up third. And he was like, okay. You got nine minutes. Chris said, we got we got bill burr coming on right after you so just get out of there yeah just warm them up my favorite lebron was when he told everybody how he knew austin reeves was what was the guy like in training camp the first year. He knew right away.

He did that whole thing. It was like a minute long. I love it. I love when he does that. Somebody's just got to do the YouTube clip of all the times LeBron said he knew right away. Or he knew earlier. All that stuff. I love it. It's my favorite.

It's really good content. I just wish one guest on the shop would go like, Hey. You seem to do this a lot. This is not the first time of this rodeo. With Philly down the road, though. No, give me your Philly. Give me your Philly.

Why does it not feel as good as it should? Even though we know Brooklyn isn't any good. They swept him. They swept him without him beating game four why is there a like maybe they still can't win the east despite all this stuff's going on give me give me your well I think we're aligned on this and I don't know I like I wanted to feel better and they just swept Brooklyn and I I don't know I don't know why I'm supposed it feels unfair to unfair to Philly, but I guess I just wanted like,

hey, if I'm looking at you as a title contender here, I wanted to look different. Maybe it's the Harden piece. The stuff in the lane is crazy. I don't even know if it's just the durability piece.

I even think like some stuff with Embiid, they're like, dude, how many times are you going to catch it and get double teamed where it's all in front of you and you're still going to be thrown off by this?

Like this shouldn't be new. Brooklyn was playing them one very specific way. Brooklyn was at a loss with the rotations. They tried to play Cam Thomas for eight minutes. Cam Thomas is a classic litmus test because he hits a couple shots, and everybody's like, man, they're going to play Cam Thomas more.

It's like, are you watching the rest of the stuff that happens? Joe Harris, unfortunately, I don't think he's hit a shot all year. And they were searching. So it was great about the tobias harris piece maxi i am not remotely worried about him in any playoff scenario at all pj tucker means a ton to them b-ball paul is a fucking menace to society he needs to be on a basketball team for the next 10 years but there's a kind of i don't know if it's the hardened and the

part of it where i'm like wait am I supposed to really take them seriously? And it feels, I'm admitting this, it feels incredibly unfair. Stuff Brooklyn did in that series against Embiid just made me feel really confident with the Celtics because they just have better players across the board, plus a big man to actually protect the rim, but could also do all the same things. They were just sending multiple dudes at him from, what, 28 feet from the rim, but could also do all the same things. They were just sending multiple dudes at him from what, 28 feet from the basket, which we didn't see as much during the regular season. You know, you're playing Detroit one night, then you play Atlanta, then you play Houston.

It's not like everybody's ski has the big unbeat scheme, but when you're playing them in a playoff series, you can really, it's like, well, we always talk about the difference between regular season playoffs. There's a, there's a certain way to play it if he's going to be at the top of the key. And I think that thing that surprised me was that Philly didn't just flip it around and just put him near the basket. Like, if you actually look at his field goals made in those three games, I think, I don't know, it was less than 20 total for the three games he got to the foul line but um i don't know it just feels stoppable to me if you can just keep sending dudes at him and just let everybody else beat them um you're right he made he made by the way

he made 18 total shots in this i mean royce o'neill was playing center 18 total shots in three days with like six foot six guys guarding him half the time. That's what I just like the Celtics have a much better version of a team that could run that offense. And Maxie, if Maxie wasn't as good as he was in game two and game three, I think that would be a different series. I think it would last the longer. It's worth

pointing out, though, like they're not going to send him in the post because it's easier. It's easier to send more people. There's less room to operate. Okay, we're giving them all the credit in the world for them, having them work at the free throw line and all these different things. All right? So we can't say, hey. Yeah, but it wasn't working in the Brooklyn series.

That's my point. It actually wasn't unlocking whatever the best version of his is. And at that point, I want to see something different. It felt like the Nets, that one thing was working, whatever they were doing with him. I guess the part that, again, and I'm criticizing myself here because I still think it's unfair. They just swept this team.

Yeah. But when I watch Golden State-Sacramento play, I'm like, how would Philly fit into this game? The speed is so different. Yeah. I'm with you. All right, let's take a break. We'll talk to the West.

What does possible sound like for your business? All right, let's take a break. We'll talk to Wes. and the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, Warriors Kings. Three of the four games were awesome. It's an old school 80s series officially.

Home team wins the first two. Younger team, people like me get all excited. Oh my God, is this the beginning of the end? Game three, ass kicking. Game four, back and forth. Really, really fun game. Certain pace. I liked all the stuff the Kings did.

Like we, you always hear me criticize some of the coaching. I'm probably too, you know, you've, you've pointed this out. I probably veered too much toward the, it's the coach's fault versus praising the coach. I think Mike Brown has been incredible.

I love the pace that they had. Um, and the Warriors tie it. There's so many ways to go here. I'll just start here. Harrison Barnes, missing a wide open three. The irony of that for Warriors fans, right?

That's the guy in 2016, you feel like if that guy plays better, we win the title. And by better, just like if he's a C plus, we win the title. We might even win the title if he's a C minus because he got so bad during that series that A, they ended up doing

the Durant thing, but B Steve Kerr had to put a Zealy out there with six minutes left because he couldn't play Harrison Barnes anymore. Cause Harrison Barnes, I couldn't hit anything. So as he comes out and LeBron gets the six points on him right away. And that basically decided the game. Um, so Barnes leaves and then it all comes full circle seven years later. Really good defense on Fox, but they left Barnes wide open because they basically blitzed Fox with two guys. Barnes

got a great look wide open three back of the rim. I just want to say this Priscilla. I didn't think it was going in. I did. I thought it looked good. I thought it looked going in. I did. I thought it looked good. I thought it looked really good. I have no issue with them. Look, if Darren Fox is working you and they were doing a lot of stuff where you curl them off the screen, everybody's favorite term now, drop coverage.

But that's what they were doing because they're treating Sabonis like Westbrook on the Lakers. And going into this game, it depends on kind of the shot chart, like maybe one here or the other way. But the way I counted it up, he was 2 of 17 from outside of the restricted area. Sabonis was going into this. So when you're having Fox come off of that and he knows it, you're like, okay, so I like the Golden State. Initially, it was like, let's just kind of bookend him here and keep it in front of us, and somebody else has to take the shot.

Not only does Barnes – I thought it was going in. I thought it looked good. but then I'm thinking about Steph going, he Chris Webbered this, calls a timeout with no timeouts left. The Tech end lose possession and they hit a three. They're up five when he calls the timeout. 42 seconds left with the ball.

With the ball. No timeouts. Doris and Mark Jones, who had their issues today. I'm just going to say that. They glossed over the timeout thing. Like it was like, you know, like I was like, wow, I can't believe you did that. I was watching it going, I've seen this happen four times like in my life in basketball. Like this never happens. This is what happened to the 1976 Triple OT game, Sud Celtics.

This is like when this happens, it usually becomes a famous play and it immediately swung the game. They hit a three out and some of the Warriors were down one. And you're watching it going, oh my God, is this,

is this our guy Steph? Is this, they're going to fucking lose because he called a timeout? Like, I was going nuts. And they ended up winning. But Barnes,

if you'd freeze frame it as he was shooting, I would have said, no way, not going in. But as he's releasing it, I was like, no, he's not making that. No kidding. That's funny. I thought it looked good. I'm not talking about how it looked. I'm just saying Harrison Barnes in that moment, it's not going in. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.

I'm really impressed with Sacramento, though. They've answered every punch. They don't feel overwhelmed when other teams would be overwhelmed in those spots. You know, Clay has his moments. He gets it going. You're like, all right. And, you know, even Davion Mitchell, who gets into Steph, and he had some moments earlier in the series.

You're like, man, but see, that's why Steph's so good. It's like, okay, you're going to play me this way? Well, guess what I'm going to do now? And then you notice today's game, when he needed to get free from him, he'd get free. There was also the play where Fox went way under a screen against Curry and you know I actually

thought the broadcast was good on that part being like you know that's like of all the people you're going to go under and it wasn't just like a straight screen left to right there was like a scrum there and he was like all the way under it and at that point it was way too late the Draymond defense like just the floor is yours.

I thought the sequence that he put together in the fourth quarter made me so mad I didn't vote for him for defensive player of the year. That was unbelievable. This is why they put up with Draymond. He guarded Fox.

He guarded Monk. He psyched out Sabonis. I mean, you, you kind of glossed over the part that you talked about how bad Sabonis has been. Sabonis was fucking money all season. Like he would demolished everybody.

If you played him like the way the words are playing him, all he would do is destroy whoever he would either go barrel into the basket and score, or he'd find a cutter or he would shoot that destroy whoever. He would either go barreling in the basket and score or he'd find a cutter or he would shoot that little foul line jumper. And the Warriors are now in his head to the point that he's a fucking mess. He looks like one of the Plumlee brothers.

Like, how did this happen? Sabonis is like, he's not an above average offensive player. He's like an elite, elite, elite offensive big man. He's fucking awesome at it. And Draymond, that last play, Dray elite offensive big man. He's fucking awesome at it. And Draymond, that last play, Draymond just stripped him. But at that point, Sabonis was like done. It was like Ryan Garcia after he got hit by Tank in the second round yesterday, where he was like, oh my God.

And that was it. Garcia, the fight was over because he never felt anything like that. And I think Sabonis is like, he's like a shell of himself. It's really bad. Sucks is harsh. I mean, he's getting 14 boards a game here and there's still, I'm just talking offensive. I'm talking offense. No, but it's a problem because, you know, I think the first game where you see Monk and Fox just going by everybody on the perimeter, I thought that was like the biggest issue in the first game. But I also think it's why they have Looney so far off. And it's a combination of not respecting Sabonis on top of everything else. And you

can tell Sabonis offensively he will be like, all right, I'm going to get my shot up here to kind of make him respect me. It's funny. He hit that one that was like wide open. They called it shoot around because it was like, go ahead. He was like setting himself. You're right. They're doing the Westbrook treatment on him. Like literally. Lakers Westbrook. They're doing the Westbrook treatment on him.

Literally. Lakers-Westbrook. Yeah. Lakers-Westbrook. But then he'll get kind of frustrated, and he's just going to barrel in to you. And then when you're ready for that, and you see it coming,

it costs him a couple charges as well. But I actually feel like it's a little too negative with Sacramento, because they're 2-2 with this, and they still have a chance. Yeah. Like they didn't, you know, they got rolled in game three in a way that you probably would have expected. You know, maybe the non-Draymond part of it, you know, was a motivating factor.

That crowd's awesome. You know, you'd still think that, you know, despite how weird Golden State's season was, you're not going to, that team's going to still be tough to eliminate. They couldn't hit threes, though. Game three, they couldn't make anything. Yeah. So I'm with you. I'm being a little too negative, but I'm also not because they can't beat Golden State

without Sabonis playing better. He's too important. I probably watch more Kings than anyone other than the Celtics. Kings, Nuggets, and Celtics. Not in that order. And Sabonis was... He's unrecognizable, whatever

happened with him offensively. So they... To me, they got to unlock him. They got to figure out what's going wrong and fix that. Because Herter, like, you know, role guys, Herter's... He's a glorified role player, but he is a role player. He's a very good role player. I'm not surprised, like, you lose a role player in a playoff series, right? Somebody just goes, oh, that guy, I don't know what happened, but he is a role player. He's a very good role player. I'm not surprised you lose a role player in a playoff series.

Somebody just goes, oh, that guy, I don't know what happened, but he's not making anything. It happens. This is a bonus. It should be... I feel like if he played decent today, they win, and they're in the driver's seat going back to Sacramento. Now this is starting to feel, ironically, like that

0-2 Lakers-Kings series. Not the officiating part, but after that Lakers-Kings series. Not the officiating part, but after that Lakers-Kings series, it was like, how is this 2-2? What the fuck? Kings are better. And the Lakers hung around, hung around, hung around. You feel like it's how is this 2-2?

I do. Because the gift of Draymond missing game three, and then I felt like they played the pace they wanted to play today, and they were doing everything they wanted to do, and they still lost. I really liked how,

I liked everything I was watching. I was like, they got it. They figured this out. They figured out every piece of this. And the Warriors just wouldn't roll over. I feel like the Kings are better than the Warriors. I do.

I don't, that doesn't mean they're going to win the series. I still think there's a gap between Steph and whoever you would want to put next. I mean, maybe you'd

put Fox there where his accolades are going to be at the end of the year, the season that he had. And he's the same. They've had the same stats all series.

Like at some point, it's almost like they're canceling each other out. Fox doesn't have the gravity that Steph has. I get it. I know that term gets used too much. I feel like Steph, when he retires, the NBA should just be like, here's 2,000 more assists, by the way.

Just 2,000 more assists for all the other basketball teams. A bonus? Right. We counted them. I know Steph's better. I'm just saying Fox has canceled him out offensively. If you just take what one guy's doing, what the other guy's doing,

he's actually managed to match the stats. So now we're going to the other guys. And Monk has given them way more than I think they ever could have hoped for. But Sabonis has let him down so far. From a word standpoint, as you know, I love nothing more than when a champ actually fights and defends a title and defends whatever they built.

And I loved it. And maybe they'll get to the point when I think they're better than the Kings, but I don't feel that way right now because the pool thing I think was still weird. Like they were trying so hard to shoehorn him into that game today. At one point it was like halftime. I think he had more shots than Steph. The Peyton thing, it doesn't feel like they've figured out completely.

He played a lot of minutes. Didn't play as much in this game. They got more from Wiggins today. And Clay, your guy, has looked really good. He looks like he's fully back from all his leg injuries from a speed standpoint. But I still feel like the Kings have real speed advantages in this series.

The end of game one, two, I think he went, I don't know if I have it right, but it was the Wiggins-Poole combination, or excuse me, it was Wiggins-Gary Payton combination because of the defense. And then Gary Payton played seven minutes I think today. So Kerr is not in the same situation, it feels like, because his status is different. But it's something I can't get past, where it's Phoenix. Clippers have no choice. But we have more than half these teams still trying to figure out

their rotations. And that's the bonus for Sacramento. They may adapt to it. Yeah, they know who they are. But they also, whether it's Herd they know who they are, but they also, you know, whether it's her getting benched and Davion coming in later, you know, they'll make a decision. I mean, Alex Lennon,

I don't know if you have to do a redraft for that one at some point and just bump up Alex Lennon a couple of spots from where we may have had him in the past. But what I think is cool about Mike Brown is that he's had moments. And when we had Herger on our podcast and I was like, how, you know, you actually got yanked the other night,

you know? And obviously he and I are such good friends. I can talk to him that way, but yeah, you guys go with that. Yeah. That's something where even though they're searching rotationally, I,

I think there's more trust in it. It's more trust. Cause Brown's going like, all right, if I, if I like this matchup or I like this guy better here, or this guy's like, it's okay because I've actually been doing this. It hasn't just been, hey, here are my eight guys

and you come out at the six-minute mark and you go in at the eight-minute mark where other guys I think are messing with their rotations because they're lost because of the availability of some of these guys, whether it's health in the regular season or health now. But I don't know, man. I think the Curry part of this, but I, I don't, I don't, I don't know, man. I think the Curry part of this,

like we should have spent probably, I don't know. There's not, I mean, there's not much more to say about this guy because he's so insane, but the level he's at in these four games is so incredible that even if you're telling me the Kings have more to them, you like them better.

I just can't get past. Like I expect Steph's at least going to have two more good games and it's been the best series so far. That's why if I had to bet my life on the series, who's going to win? I think the Kings are a better team. And I think the Warriors that I would probably bet on the infrastructure. Did you bet it? And the defense.

I didn't. I stayed away. I have the Kings to win the West. I put something on that a while ago, that like 33 to one. I want to put a bow on the Curry thing though because I did want to ask you this. This guy won back-to-back MVPs, including a unanimous MVP in 2016.

And I think he's better now and it's not even close. I think the stuff that he does and the physicality that he's been able to add and especially in a game like today where they really needed him there for a little bit

and I just feel like again and again he has such trust in whatever his ability is to get to the basket. It's not just the shooting anymore. He's in traffic the way he can just get them a hoop seemingly anytime he wants. It's crazy to say this, but I think this is the best he's ever played that I can remember. Now, he's going against

a team that's pretty weak defensively, but I just feel like he's peak of his offensive powers, which is weird because he's 34 years old. This is the highest two-point percentage he's peak of his offensive powers, which is weird because he's 34 years old. This is the highest two-point percentage he's had since 2016-17 where his world was a lot easier because you got Pete Clay and you have this guy Durant pulling stuff away. There were times, if ever, you were looking for the

Curry weakness because I think anybody that knocks him defensively, I don't really think people paid attention. He was always pretty good positionally. Sure, he wasn't as physical as some other guys but it wasn't like i like his defense now but you know i always felt like that was kind of somebody was telling on themselves a little bit they're just looking at him being like oh you just get him to switch whatever it's like yeah but like their their teams were really good defensively so it it wasn't like he was this massive sieve all the time but he is finishing

at the rim better now than i think he was in the past i don't know if that's just because i'm more spacing or whatsoever as far as his best season ever or this is the best he is i maybe would have heard listen to it but then you did the classic like rule break as soon as somebody said it's not even close then i'm like all right this is now a bad point because it's definitely close when did i when did i say that i don't remember i said did i say you just said it's his best season and you don't think it's even close and that's where i was like okay we're we might be done he hit all right that's four percent of his he hit 54 of his 11 threes in 2015 i didn't say it was his best season.

I said the peak of his power stuff, I feel like this is his peak. The same way, like LeBron in 2018. Older version of LeBron. There were better statistical versions of him. There was better athletic versions of him, the whole thing. But I still feel like 2018 LeBron was the most unstoppable version of LeBron.

He's just, especially that game one of the finals that we talked about. But just in general, I just felt like his hoops IQ had risen with the years of experience and pushed him to just this different level of he just felt like the way he navigated everything,

I just felt like he was at a higher level. And you could poke that apart with a bunch of statistics from different years, but I know how I feel. And Curry, I feel the same way. Now, granted, he called a timeout when he didn't have any today. So maybe 2016, Curry wouldn't have done that. I don't know.

That was an old person moment. But I just feel like his command of his surroundings at all times is the best that's ever been. Maybe it's just because of the familiarity with the other guys, because he's been with them for so long now, right? Draymond, decade. Clay, more than a decade. Looney's, five, six years.

Wiggs has been there now a couple years. Maybe that's part of it. I call him Wiggs. I know, that's why I repeated it. But I think this is my favorite version of Curry. I'll leave it at that. 9.5 VORP in 2016, dude. 9.5 VORP.

The stats were crazy. I get it. Game five will be nuts. The crowd will be great. Are you going? Are you taking the jet up to Sactown? The jet. Yeah. Let me call the, let me call the pilot and see if he can queue it up.

Um, I really do want to go to one of these games. I do. I really want to go to the Sacramento golden state game, but I just don't know how the, I don't know how we're going to do it. Lakers. Grizz.

You want to talk about it? What are your thoughts? Didn't you go? I didn't. I'm going to game four. All right. You go first then. Give us your pregame.

I just felt like the series was over. I didn't feel like game three. Was it the nine points in the first quarter that tipped you off? No, I watched game three, but I wasn't like, wow, can't wait to see what happens. It was like, the Lakers are going to win. Jot went nuts there in the fourth quarter. Not positive what that means.

22 straight. Yeah, I did think it exposed a little of what the Lakers should be worried about as they go into these next series, if they make it. Can we stop guys like this, these explosive guards? But in general, I just think Memphis has lost

too many guys. I don't see the case for them. So I watched this one this morning because I had plans and so I already knew what happened and nine points in the first quarter

is the lowest first quarter point total of any game for any team this entire year not a great start and then I saw Joss post game he's like well look we just get past that first quarter we're right there we're right there with him again cool man I get it nobody postgame. I was like, well, look, we just get past that first quarter. We're right there.

We're right there with him. Again, cool, man. I get it. Nobody's going to go be like, man, we suck. But when I watch him go for 22 straight, as impressive as it was, sometimes when you're fast forwarding through a game, it can be more revealing how much the intensity falls off. Right.

Because there's no commercial, you're not like, I'm flying through the game. Seltz's game, Seltz's game one was like that. They're up 30 and then they, you know,

take your foot off the pedal. There's nothing about this game as impressive as Ja was in the fourth where I think the Lakers are in any kind of trouble. I mean, first of all, Memphis isn't good enough without the guys they're missing, but that was jaw good for him.

He was attacking it, but it was so clear to me the way I watched it, that the Lakers were like, let's just get this over with. That's what I saw. Yeah. LeBron, LeBron gets to basically,

you know, he's like one of those starters with a five-run lead in the fifth. He's like, I'm just going to bank a couple more innings here. I don't feel like we're getting LeBron's A-plus game yet. I think he's saving it for when he needs it.

What do you think about him in the Brooks stuff? I want to talk about that. Just a quick Laker point. I think they have the series. I'd be shocked if Memphis did anything. And yet the Davis LeBron injury piece, like I just, I feel like we have to mention that every time.

Cause the moment you, you can never feel comfortable with the Lakers, with the fragility of Davis and with LeBron's age, um, the Brooks stuff. I just feel like I hate it. Um, why the social, the social media climate that we're in now, Davis and with LeBron's age. The Brooks stuff, I just feel like I hate it. Why? The social media climate that we're in now, I feel

like these guys can become... It's like this... You know, Rodman was doing this stuff in the 90s. And I always felt like... We talked about it when we did the last dance stuff, where I was like, I never liked Rodman that much because I always felt like, and we talked about it when we did the last dance stuff,

where I was like, I never liked Rodman that much because I always felt like this stuff was calculated with him. The Dylan Brooks stuff, it just feels calculated to me. I don't know. I don't like it. I think it's disrespectful. And especially with somebody like LeBron, who's one of the greatest players in the history of the league. I know you're trying to do gamesmanship. Chuck Person did this shit to Bird 30 years ago in the 91 playoffs. He was super physical with Bird. He's beating the shit

out of him. It was like, oh my God, you're doing this to Larry Bird. He was trying to get an edge on him. He was trying to win the series. It sucked to watch. It was frustrating, but I get it. This, to me me feels like, I feel like you have to be like a whiff more respectful to what LeBron means to the sport.

And you could say like, oh, I didn't mean to hit him in the balls, but you know, it's funny how the same type, the same guys always seem to be the guys who poke people in the eyes, hit people in the balls, cheap shot people. It's always the same circle of guys, right? It's never like Derek White just, oh, Derek White hit Trey Young in the

balls today and got ejected. I'd be like, what? It's always a certain type of guy. And I don't know. I'm not a Laker fan. I think we've've, we've pointed out LeBron stuff that did rubbed us, maybe not the right way a couple of times, but for the most part, like he's one of the greatest players I've ever seen. He means an incredible amount to the sport. I just think it's disrespectful. I don't like it.

You're going to be better than three, 13, five, 14, five, 13. He's 25% from three. You know,

he's, he's an important player on any team. You know, you need, you need somebody with some kind of attitude. Defensively, I know he's going to compete, but it's so wrestling to me that it doesn't even feel real. It's not even WWE wrestling. It's like AEW.

It's like upstart wrestling league trying to make a name. Yeah, I don't love it. I don't know that I fall in line with you on like, hey, it's disrespectful to LeBron, but I'm going to need more of a resume. That's my point. It's like in hockey, if the worst guy in the Kings

is just trying to start a fight with Conor McDavid every period, at some point, one of the others would skate over, beat the shit out of the guy or like what I, there's just like a code with some of this stuff that I feel like in the NBA, we lose sight of sometimes. Dylan Brooks,

you're not good enough to do this shit to LeBron. You're just not. And in the past, like, you know, we'll go on the talk shows on Monday and I'm sure somebody would be like, nobody ever did this to Michael Jordan. I don't ever remember anybody hit michael jordan in the balls like i that's not the point the point is like dylan brooks you're just not good enough like fucking

show some respect man like be competitive without being a fucking dick and you can't play 19 minutes in game three after you talk all this shit and go three and 13. Yeah, you're not good enough. You're not good enough to do this. You don't belong on the level with this dude. Anyway, let's take a break and we got to talk. We have to dive into this Clipper series.

I can't believe we saved this for last. All right, we saved the dumbest series for last. Clippers Suns actually went on Saturday, got to witness this one in person. No Kawhi. Kawhi gets hurt game three. They're like, well, I theorized to Rob Mahoney. Maybe he's resting for game four.

Nope. Turns out his knee swelled up. The mood in the stands... No, after game two. Game two, yeah. His knee swelled up. They thought, oh, we'll give him game him game off nope doesn't play either game the mood in the stands was pretty grim rassilo i've had season tickets since the 0405 season um i've gotten a gotten a pretty good feel for the for the atmosphere in the room and uh people really like Westbrook. You know why?

Because he fucking plays hard. He plays every game. And it's an improbable comeback. I know we've talked about it on both of our pods, but the main thing is he would have played all 48 minutes if Ty Lue had kept him out there. He played as hard as he possibly could. And I think it was a refreshing change

for some of the Clipper fans. They're like, at least this guy gives a shit. I know Kawhi's hurt, whatever, but it's just when you, when you hand your franchise over to a guy who basically plays whenever he wants, who keeps everybody in mystery at all times on what his physical health is, and they knew what they were signing up for. And then they extended, they re-signed up for it in September. They signed up for more of it. And this is kind of what you get. This is the worst case version of,

eh, can we trust this guy? You probably can't. There's rumors about, that I've heard that I think are pretty convincing about that they kind of knew that his knee wasn't in good shape when they signed him to the extension in September, where it's like, this is going to be a problem. Hopefully it won't be a problem anytime soon.

One of those deals, but this is now like a franchise crippling contract. If, uh, if he can't get back out there and I just don't trust him to ever be out there and be healthy and reliable again. I think like how many years in a row can we do this? It's 2023.

He signed with them in 2019. This is who he is. and reliable again. Like how many years in a row can we do this? It's 2023. He signed with them in 2019. This is who he is. So they're fucked. That's my take. 17, 18, plays nine games at San Antonio. 18, 19, remember, I just moved out here and you and I were doing the pods

and it was still sort of new to me. Like this is the new normal in the NBA, but back then, not that long ago, four years ago, you're like, wait, they're going to be good in the playoffs, and he just kind of plays whenever? It's like, well, they're kissing his ass because he's a free agent. They're trying to do whatever they can to keep him around.

And by the way, it works. It works because Golden State lost two of their best players. Toronto, or excuse me, he leaves. Clippers the first year. I have no issue with the trade. i have no issue with handing the keys all right it's a really tough it's the toughest sport i've been in the major sports to be a jm title he's the best player in the league right arguably um you know to say hey we can get kawaii and paul george if we do all these things fucking everybody's doing it all of them are doing it it's the same reason why like there

are these think pieces about the nets where it's like should you ever do this you know the kairi situation you know it's kind of by itself and how i feel about that but you can't look at the nets going well that's not the way to do it it actually is kind of the way to do it and it didn't work out but to then have to double down on both the contracts with he and paul george because you feel like you've already given up all these resources that you're sort of stuck. I guess it gets back to kind of last year. Like I remember, again, 2021, he played 52 games, didn't play any games last year. I had heard towards the end of last year, like he was working out and people could see him and he was killing it in workouts. Remember, there was this idea that maybe he could come back, he could come back,

but then nobody fucking knows, man. Nobody ever knows with the guy. And for whatever reason, whether it's his lack of trust going all the way back to San Antonio, which I think was part of this, the Toronto thing, getting to do whatever he wants, going to L.A. Again, I get why they let him do whatever he wants because you're in the business of hoping to get one of these seven guys. And when you get one, you have a chance. And when you don't have one, you don't have a chance. So I don't really blame anybody for doing this. But there comes a point where it's the relationship right the entire neighborhood's like i can't believe like you know what like what's like hey man i had i had to be married to her and i couldn't do it anymore and this is another example of like i i don't know

how you go into next year being like all right cool let's do this again i know he's had some awful news on his on the personal front i don't know that this is a surprise out of nowhere so you want to be sensitive to that at least acknowledge that you and i you know talked about it but like where do you think they they're at with him like i mean do you have any read on this i think as an organization four years think how long four years is. It's a presidential term. It's somebody going to college and then graduating college. It's somebody going to high school. It's like four years is a lifetime. The best way I could describe it with some insight in the Clippers is this is one of the

most traumatized, emotionally scarred, cursed franchises we have in any sport, right? And they go through, basically their best chance to win a team, win a title is 2014 and 2015. They finally, the seeds have parted. They finally have a chance. In 2014, Chris sucks in the playoffs

for whatever reason. They Durant and Westbrook and OKC beats them. No shame in that. Then OKC loses the next round. 2015, they knock off the Spurs in round one, the greatest round one series of all time. And it's like, all right, this is the, then they fucking choke against Houston. And then that era is over. And this is a franchise, especially with this owner, Balmer, who's like, I'm going to be the hero, put the cape on. I'm going to be the one that saves all this. And you start getting desperate. And when people get desperate, it's like in real life, right? You have a friend who can never find the right, I don't know, person who's been

divorced a couple of times and just has bad taste in the opposite sex. And then they finally find the person. They're talking themselves into all of these things about them because they're so desperate to actually end up with somebody. That to me is the Clippers with Kawhi. I don't blame them for 2019. I blame them for the extension in 22 when he's already had multiple long knee things. You've already had three years under the hood with him. And then you double down on it anyway because you felt like, well, we gave up so much for this guy. I guess we're all in.

And I just don't think they were. I don't think they should have done it. And I think the culture that they have, whatever they're trying to build, is fucked up. It's a mess. That's my take. Just an aside, Chris Paul was like a plus 37 in that series against Oklahoma City when Blake got hurt.

In 2014? Yeah. Just for the series. That's all. In the series they lost. We already litigated this in the Book of Basketball pod. Some really tough crunch time moments for him in that series. That's all. I'm just hiding the series they lost. We already litigated this in the Book of Basketball pod. Some really tough crunch time moments for him in that series. I just want to give you the full scope.

Give you the full deal on it. I can't imagine. Can you imagine being Balmer? Like again, the guy I'd love to get a few drinks in the most is Joe Sy. I feel like so. This is a great game. Which owner would you like to get a few drinks in the most is Joe Sy. I feel like so. This is a great game.

Which owner would you like to get four drinks in? Yeah, Joe Sy's one. Joe Sy's the first draft pick. It's like when Bunyama coming out. Which owner would you want to get drinks in to be like, okay, what was that like? Ballmer is a lottery pick. He's got to be way up there. He's either going two or three in the draft.

Yeah, he's way more than a lottery pick. You have the physical and you see what you want to see. There's red flags with Kawhi's knee. And you could choose to be terrified of the red flags or go glass half full on them. You know, like the ultimate example of this was Brandon Roy when he got drafted. There are some teams who didn't even, they didn't even have them on their, on the, on, on their boards. Cause it's like that guy's knee, their doctors are going, that guy's knees are done. He might play three years, he might play six, but no knees. And then other teams

looked at it and goes, well, we might be able to get 12, 13 years out of them. Who knows? Well, it was the Michael Porter Jr. thing, which ironically is why Ballman was so upset about it because it was like, wait, we had two picks and we passed on them. Right. And, but yeah, you know, the Michael Porter Jr. story changes all the time. Right. Because at one point you're going, wow, they totally lucked out. And then another point in his career, you're like, how do you give that guy all that money

when you don't know? And then who knows? The way Denver's looked in this first round, the shot making that he's capable of, you're like, great deal for them. And that's going to change again at some point. I just wonder, it's one thing if Kawhi's hurt all the time, and it just doesn't work out. It happens with athletes constantly.

But is it really as bad as the rumblings of like we know you're different we know you're on your own program but is there any conscious effort to understand like the partnership you're in is there any partnership or are you so burned from the san antonio thing and the fact that you've gotten your way every single time. I'm not talking about whether or not basketball is important to him, but do you not like any of the guys?

Do you not like Lawrence Frank? Do you not like Ty Lue? Do you not like Steve Ballmer? Do you know how hard this must be for all of them? The fact that Ty Lue kind of let some stuff slip, well, not even slip, because I think he meant to say it on purpose during some of the TNT broadcasts,

where Reggie Miller said to Ty Lue he was basically admitting that Ty Lue told him how frustrating he was and he was starting to get like annoyed by the whole thing and so as you're watching this series play out which by the way after the first half of game two even with just Kawhi

and then how competitive games three and four have been dude if Kawhi because he was unbelievable in games one and four have been, you're like, dude, if Kawhi, because he was unbelievable in games one and two, Phoenix would be in real trouble right now. And who knows if he's going to come back and support. I guess these are two different things, how the series looks and then the Kawhi relationship part. But I guess I would never want to be as important

to something as Kawhi is to the Clippers and be as dismissive of the relationship as it appears to be. If that's true or not. I don't know. I think it's really tough to have a team where somebody is treated this differently and just operates by their own set of rules

when it's supposed to be a team where there's some sort of cohesion and chemistry. Whatever the sport is, this is always when it goes sideways. We've seen it in football, we've seen it in whatever. When somebody wants to be special, treated special, do their own thing, trust their own people, and just basically dole out the info whenever it's okay for them to dole it out. It's just not a it's not a way things should operate. So I think,

but it's how they operate now in this league, the GM, this is the worst version of it though. Right. But I, I, you know, this,

the teams are scared to death of pissing off their guys. Well, in this case, what are you scared to death of pissing off? He's right. It's year one of a four year deal for like $180 million and the guy barely plays. And then if you're looking big picture

from a Quipper standpoint, like, you know, they've never made the finals in the entire history of the franchise. This was easily their best shot. And you go right from when the pandemic starts, it's just been a comedy of errors ever since.

And there's been excuse every single year for why this didn't work, why this didn't work, why this didn't work. And now we're heading into the mid 2020s. And FYI, there's no scenario where it's going to work now because every year he gets older and the injuries pile up. Paul George has had some pretty major injuries too, not to mention he's got a steel rod in his leg. And it just feels like the window's closed for them. And if you're a Clipper fan,

you're just watching this going, how does this always happen to us? There's no other franchise that has as many tough beats as this one, at least in the NBA. I think from a Sun standpoint, what I noticed in person last night, the Aiton piece of it really jumped out in person. And I don't know, on TV, it doesn't jump out the same way, but they get really frustrated by him.

He's like the little brother. He's such a nice guy. Little chalmers. But he's such a, like Eddie Johnson, he said he loves him. He says he's like the greatest guy. Everybody says he's such a, like, Eddie Johnson, like, he said, like, he loves him. He says he's, like, the greatest guy. Everybody says, like, he's an awesome guy. They're just frustrated by him because he's got this, like, perfect center body. And then you watch him, like, go fumble a screen or he's late rotating or he didn't get to, you know, the rebound in time.

And at one point in the beginning of third quarter, the Clippers went on a little run. Manny called a quick timeout. Booker was like yelling at Aiton. This wasn't like Draymond and KD four years ago. It wasn't like I didn't think they were going to fight. But Booker was so pissed off. And he screamed at him I'm going to say for like 45, 50 seconds where he was just so mad. And we've talked about this all the time where it's sports. This is what happens. You play basketball, you get mad at somebody, and this is, we've talked about this all the time where it's sports. This is what happens.

You play basketball, you get mad at somebody. It's not, you don't carry it over. But so he, I mean, look at Kyle Anderson the other night with go various technical, like hugging him.

Right. You know, if those two can work it out. So go ahead. Right. So then that finishes. And then, you know,

that, so whatever money talks and then CP comes in and he starts talking a and two and it's, you know, so whatever, Monty talks. And then CP comes in and he starts talking to Aiton too. And it's, so there's that, or it's just, they seem like they can't get him to wherever they want him to go. That's one thing. The other thing is they have no bench. And I think their bench has scored 50 points total

in four games. They don't have campaign. But if I'm saying like, well, they don't have campaign. But if I'm saying like, well, they don't have campaign, that's not great either. You know? Like, but campaign wouldn't even play for the Celtics.

So, yeah, that piece as well, where it's, where, you know, they're a guy short. That was my takeaway watching it. And I felt like the Clippers

hung around in that game. Westbrook was incredible again. We're going to talk about him in a second. Nobody else in the Clippers really played that well. And then the Suns just hit all kinds of shots in the fourth. Bob Iger was there. I think Chris Paul, a little hop in his step. They have like a big male bonding friendship.

But Chris made some shots. And all of a sudden it was like, what was it? Like 12,13 point final the game felt like either team could win with like 5 minutes left I think people were more down on the Suns

than I was from an execution standpoint with all those guys I actually thought they played together pretty well considering how new Durant is but

the lack of the bench that's why I don't think they can win four rounds. I think they're going to play Denver next round, and that lack of the bench is really going to hurt them because Denver's bench can come in and they can extend leads. They can do some stuff. It's way different than last year. I think they're going to have a real advantage. It reminds me, the way I feel about Phoenix right now is a little bit about Philadelphia. And the Philly stuff, again, is still unfair.

They swept against a team that's totally inferior. But I'm looking at them through the lens of, like, can this team win 16 games? All right. Phoenix, I thought, could. And even though they're going to win this series, who knows? Maybe it's them being new and they'll figure it out, whatever. But with no Kawhi and no Paul George they should be better

and Westbrook as the lead guy on the other team nobody wanted Westbrook two months ago right and I think we should just do well let me start on the Phoenix side of it I know the old Chris Paul thing and me giving the plus minus is more me

playing the role of his ultimate defender I've been very clear and honest about it. It hasn't been good this year. And I kept holding out for like that longer stretch of it to look better. And it didn't. In game three, I was fucking horrified. All right. He was hesitant to shoot to the point where then he didn't want to shoot he had that corner three where he ran in from the corner he was wide open and the whole concept of this team was think about chris paul and all these open shots that he's gonna get and like wait you don't want to shoot then he misses the two free throws which would be forgotten because they go ahead and win the game he he arguably won them the game in the fourth quarter of game four so now it's like oh okay am i gonna feel totally better about this again he was fucking awesome but honestly the game three late stuff scared the shit out of me so bad that i'm like congrats on game four but i'm still a little worried the minutes part of it katie's played 176 of the 192 so that's 16 minutes he hasn't been on the floor booker's played two less minutes only 18 minutes and they've needed they've needed to play those guys like game seven of the finals type

stuff here in a shorter series against a team that shouldn't have any chance against you and the eight in part but wait 36 minutes after game three i mean i'm sorry 36 hours after game three yeah that's right that's what i mean by the shorter series but they put like huge huge they ran played 45 minutes last night or yesterday afternoon. And I'm not upset they played that many minutes, but it makes you wonder about the future because they needed it. That's the point, is they needed it desperately.

And that's on top of Torrey Craig giving them numbers in a couple of these games. You're like, holy shit. Campaigned to me is a shutdown amusement park. You can go on the rides. All right? That's what he's like to me, watching it. I fell off there nine months ago, but it's working. No, you can go on the rides. All right? Like, that's what he's like to me watching it. The guy fell off there nine months ago, but it's working.

No, you can turn it on. They desperately need campaign. You know, they desperately need some of this stuff. And, you know, Shamit, they probably thought they had something. I don't know. You know, it just doesn't feel like he makes many shots post Clippers. He hasn't made a shot in three years. Right.

As I'm watching it all play out and the eight part like i've given up you know what like you and i were starting to fall in love with him when they were making the finals right a couple years ago hey he's a big five who can stay on the floor and he's not going to get exposed and all these one five switch and all this stuff he had terrence man pinned at the rim in game three and he turns around and gives you a floater you're like how are you not more pissed off that you're not better? You should be fucking killing some of these guys and he doesn't do it. And that means the guys don't want to pass

it to him all the time. They don't trust him. They don't think he's tough enough. He gets, he should get more rebounds just for being huge. They didn't go small. The Clippers didn't go small the way they did in game three and game four. They brought in Marcus Morris about the four minute mark to close out game four. So I was like waiting for that again. And I wonder if Lou was like,

I almost don't want to turn him on where maybe going that small freaked him out in game three and now he's going to be ready for it in game four. So that was the other card I was waiting to have it be played. The best summary I can give you is I thought this team could win an NBA championship. And even though they're up 3-1 and they're going to win this series,

I am more deflated with that idea because of all the things that we've listed. Flip side, Booker, I haven't seen Booker, this version of him in person because I haven't seen them this year. It's awesome. He's fucking...

I was trying to think like best two guards since Jordan that I've seen in person. And he's whatever that short conversation is. He's so good. He's so alpha. Like he's the alpha of that team. I always thought it was Chris. It's actually Booker now. That's one of the things that's I think shifted the last three years, the way he carries himself. He takes everything personally. Um, he does everything at the highest level. I was so impressed. I don't, I'm just going to make, maybe for next week, make my best players you'd want for the playoffs right now. He's got to be in the top 10. That guy is just an absolute killer. And just, he was so mad that Westbrook was scoring on him.

And then he was just torching whoever on the other end, but that Westbrook was scoring on him. And then he was just torching whoever on the other end. But that Westbrook thing just made him like almost crazy. It was great. I loved it. I'm as concerned with you as the Suns. It feels like as great as those two guys are, and they're great. The minutes thing is such a red flag.

The fact that they have no Kawhi, no Paul George, and it's basically the Russell Westbrook show. And you're like, ah, got to play Durant 45 today to get through this. It's like, no, actually, you know, you should be able to beat this team. But they absolutely didn't feel like they could. So, and then Durant's had two injuries this year. Like real injuries, not like sprained ankle, you know?

Like he's had two injuries that he had to recover from. And now they're just putting these unnecessary miles on him. The only thing I could think of was maybe he really wanted to end this series in five and didn't want this to be two two and linger on he was like i'm gonna go for the kill we got some rest but in person it did not make sense no and i'll admit you know watching booker do what he's done here you're like wait am i you know – because this is kind of the dumb quarterback thing where I feel like every year we do the NFL season stuff, and you could have somebody who likes a quarterback and somebody who doesn't like a quarterback, and if they're outside of the top six or seven, you're like, well, hey,

you're going to have a bunch of weeks where you're going to feel right, and then you're going to have a bunch of weeks where I feel like I'm right, and that's the game. We just keep repeating it over and over and over again. But with Booker and some of the top five stuff where he's never really mentioned in it, and then you see, to your point, his aggression, and that he's not somebody who's settling for threes all the time.

He goes at you. He attacks the finishing that he has against size. And he's just a motherfucker, man. And it's like the best. He really is. And then I'm going like, wait. And it's like the best. He really is. And then I'm going like, wait, do I not include him in that group enough? And I didn't really mention him.

And I was like, wait, you voted him fourth last year for MVP. So I'm like, okay, I think I'm respectful enough. And if he had played 70 games, if he had played 66 games, I would have had him first team on there. He just didn't play enough games. Right.

And it's also a really tough group to compliment considering who they were in the regular season and then what happened at Dallas. Nobody was going to stand up and be like, hey, you guys want to put Booker a little higher on Monday after what happened to him against Dallas last year? So it's kind of a carryover malaise. And he missed games a couple different times this year.

But he looks, at least in these four games, despite all my concerns, he looks like a guy that, you know, that first tier, which I always think is a really tight group, maybe five, six max players. Yeah, that's what it feels like. He's at least near Tatum and they've been, they've both been

in big finals. Be honest, do you like him more than Tatum? I think they're, I think this playoffs will probably help me decide that answerum? I think this playoffs will probably help me decide that answer, but I think they're in the ballpark of each other. They're definitely in the ballpark. I think Booker's that good. One thing

I liked that I saw yesterday that I was just watching is I think those three guys are really aligned together. Booker, KD, and Chris. It feels like it's their. Booker KD and Chris, like I just, it feels like it's their team already. KD's still a little new guy-ish,

but I think they're all, I think they're locked in. Like that was a nice win for them to come to. They didn't come back, but they really laid the smack down last five minutes and Chris made a couple of shots. The Westbrook side of this. So,

and we both talked about him a bunch. I think the thing that is stunning to me, and I haven't heard anyone mention this, Brooklyn could have had Westbrook and the 27 and 29 unprotected Laker picks for Kyrie, right? And they decided instead Dinwiddie, DFS, and that 29 Dallas pick was a better deal. If they had made the Kyrie trade for Westbrook and you put Westbrook on that Brooklyn team, I think that's six or six series.

If knowing now that there's like Lakers Westbrook, and then there's the other Westbrook, the other Westbrook's on that Nets team, I think that would have been a pretty interesting series because I think he would have put up the same stats. So Lakers Westbrook, I think that would have been a pretty interesting series because I think he would have put up the same stats. So Lakers-Westbrook, I think you just throw out. I think for whatever reason, just couldn't play with those guys. And maybe the best scenario for him is he has the ball all the time on a team that is probably a 500 team like he had with the Wizards a couple years ago. But he is still an NBA guy. And I didn't think he was two months ago. So that's what's changed for me. I think he's a guy that if you're 500 or below, and maybe you don't want him if you're

below because maybe you don't want to win the extra games because it fucks up your lottery pick. But he's clearly a guy that can put up stats, that isn't afraid. He got super alpha doggy a bunch of times in that game yesterday. He's still, athletically, I thought he looked great. I was shocked. He's like real quick and athletic and fast. I don't know, why would you think? Because he's old.

He's from 2008 draft. He's as fast as he was 10 years ago. A lesser version of him athletically though, is still so much better. I mean, he's the best athlete I've ever seen in a basketball game. He's amazing. So here's,

here's what I think is a fair way to do it. It's, it's gone way better. Okay. Then, then all of us thought because at work and you were like, where's this guy going to land six teams over four seasons, but he's 34 and wizards Westbrook was only two years ago.

It wasn't 10 years ago. So now by just necessity, they need him to have the ball in his hands. So if there was another NBA team that said, you know what we want you to do? Have the ball for a 37% usage rate. We want you taking 22 shots a game. You know, you're going to get your eight assists

because you have the ball literally every single minute. It's not surprising to me with this opportunity, these putting up numbers, I would say the game four efficiency is pretty surprising. Making the threes is surprising. His confidence is completely different. Hell, they were bringing a double when he had Booker in the post. They had to bring him some help at times because of how good he was. He abused Booker a couple times in a shocking way where he just bully-balled him

down the low post and just easily scored on him. I couldn't believe it. But this is a combination of him having a nice stretch here with, I think, the more important basketball part is that he has an opportunity here because the other two guys are gone.

Norm was great in game three. Powell's an awesome player, man, but this is kind of his show. So yeah, he could get numbers somewhere next year as a free agent. I don't know what this means for the perception of him, the value around the league, because he's still going to be stuck in the, if this is the only way it works, which teams are designed to want him to do this? All the good teams are going to say no. And we covered this going into this year. I think it played out.

A lot of the bad teams have had so many recent high picks that it's like, would you want him doing this in Houston while all the lottery guys you took are watching? You wouldn't do Orlando. Would you want an Orlando? He's just taking shots from Palo. Would you take the ball to Cade Cunningham and Jaden Ivey's hands going into next year? So I think it's kind of a fun story for him because he dealt with a ton of shit in his hometown. He goes not even across town. He goes across the hallway and he had this awesome run and he deserves the credit for it.

But there's also like a reality check that I don't think has been talked about enough in the response. Because I think there's just people that hate the Lakers. Like, oh, the Lakers screwed this up. It's like, well, he was never going to be allowed to play this way with them. So that's really their fault for even thinking it was going to work in the first place. But this is him at 34, not 38, going, cool, I get to be Oklahoma City Russ again. This is awesome. The only thing I didn't like, though, is we had, even like Durant and Chris Paul

did it, and then some media people did it, like this is why people don't understand what a competitor Russell Westbrook is. We actually really didn't understand it. This is just the best possible scenario for him. He's on a team that doesn't have any other stars and he has the ball all the time. But it's a team that's also down 3-1 in a play for him. He's on a team that doesn't have any other stars and he has the ball all the time. But it's

a team that's also down 3-1 in a playoff series. He's lost six of his last seven playoff series. This will be his seventh out of the last eight if they finish off the loss on this one. And it goes back to the Wizards point. This is what House and I used to argue about because House loved him.

He's like, this is the only fucking guy who gives a shit on our team. And we're 500 mostly because of him. And's like, this is the only fucking guy who gives a shit on our team, right? And we're 500 mostly because of him. And we have a chance in any playoff game because of him. But at the same time, that makes our ceiling a two-floor house instead of a 20-floor house. I guess there wouldn't be a 24-house, 24-building. Yeah, I screwed that one up.

But I just think this is who he is. If you need him, if your star's out and you need stats and points and somebody to play his ass off, I think he could do it next year for somebody. I just don't know what team that is. Maybe it's the Clippers. Yeah, I don't want to look at these four games and... Look, I've seen it just from real people here.

So this isn't... Yeah. Again, when we bring this stuff up, it's here. So this isn't, you know, again, when we bring this stuff up, it's like, you have to see it enough where it's like, Oh wait, he he's,

he's going to secure the bag this off season. Well, how much has really changed about demand for somebody like this until, you know, you need him, the Clippers need him to be this right now. It's a great fit. It's awesome.

But the only reason this is happening is because, I mean, look, Ty Lue even started bailing on him in fourth quarters when all the guys were there. Yeah. So, um, it's tough. I got to say that it's really unusual career situation. I don't even, I can't even really think of another parallel of somebody who the best situation for him is when he has the ball at the time and then he looks awesome, but no team would really want to be in that situation. Then you end up where he was from 2017 to 2021. It's like, cool. We went 42 and 40 and Russ put up a bunch of stats.

But I say that not to disparage it because I loved watching him yesterday. It was great. Everybody, he tried harder than anybody in that game other than maybe Booker. He really gave a shit. He was all out. He was flying around. It was a mistake to even take him out. I loved how competitive he was.

So it makes me think like, I don't know, maybe it's Brooklyn next year. Ironically. Maybe it's a team like that. Like I would rather have Westbrook have those minutes than Spencer Dinwiddie. You know? Maybe it's a team like that. I would rather have Westbrook have those minutes than Spencer Dinwiddie. You know? Maybe it is. Maybe it is.

By the way, maybe the weird way the perception stuff, we should do some sort of thing where we grade the approval rating of certain players. You and I just go back and forth on a group of players only to revisit the exercise a year later to remind ourselves how like political candidates yeah right but to remind us how quickly it can change like the aaron fox is a perfect example of it right um you know mellow was

somebody that was like what did you start invading iceland like that wasn't very popular bam out of bio uh i'm not i'm not quite there yet with Bam, although I would say the end of the... It seemed inconceivable they would trade him, and then the way there was going before Giannis got hurt. I don't know. You're right. You jump up and down and around on different players. I would just wonder,

the public part of the Westbrook thing has been awesome, but in the league, you should start playing that game and fitting it. But I don't know. People were wondering if anybody was going to offer him a contract. I wonder how much this has changed. I thought he was going to be out of the league.

I thought he was going to sign with the Clippers and be done in two weeks, and that was it. And he moved on to the China-Stefan Marbury stage of his career. And it's the opposite. He's definitely... Somebody will roll the dice with him next year in a real way. Probably the Clippers. A real way?

I think somebody will commit to he's at least two years mid-level next year. Probably more. It's like two for 20? He doesn't think he's... He's not getting that money from... He's looking at two for 20 or one for 10, something like that.

Or somebody lost their point guard to the year because they blew out his ACL in the summer league or whatever it is. And we signed Russell Westbrook instead. Hey, before we go, let's do, you had an idea for post-traumatic stress syndrome for awards ballots. Yeah. Instead of PTSD, we're going to do PVSD. That's post-voting stress disorder. It's really for Zach Lowe because I think he suffers from a severe case of PVSD. I had a couple though. The Embiid MVP thing, I'm just racked with guilt and self-doubt.

Mobley for defensive player of the year i would do that one over again but that's the thing it's a regular season award so i keep going back to like regular season where regular season award but like watching draymond today how like that was the other guy i was going to vote for him so mad i didn't vote for him so wait you wish you had voted draymond defensive player of the year already after those his only three games i We're talking PVSD. It is PVSD. It triggered my PVSD. I really went back and forth.

Mobley versus Draymond. Mobley versus Draymond. Then I went with Mobley. I didn't suffer PVSD from having Brunson on All-NBA over Randall. That's been great. The Embiid MVP thing, I don't think either of us felt awesome

about, but I felt like he did earn it the last month of the season. But then you watch the playoffs and it's like, yo, he's just fucking amazing. He's just fucking amazing. He's just absolutely one of the best offensive players I've ever seen in my life. What

else? What are the rest of the PVSDs for you? Mitchell, first team all-NBA over Fox. I'm struggling with that one now. I would say I'm glad I didn't have Brooke Lopez in my finalist despite the contest differential that you were looking at. I started digging into it more at the end of the regular season.

I was like, I feel like this is a little system-y. I feel good about that one. I don't have to see anybody. My quickly over Brogdon sixth man, although the starting games had nothing to do with it because it's like, well, so Brogdon because quickly played all the extra games. Then I'm going to take that away when we've had guys win sixth man. So if you felt that way ever I'm like all right maybe maybe um you know I just felt like quickly had moments where he had to carry them offensively which way you know tipped it in his favor for me yeah I'll admit with Embiid uh and maybe it's just because of how awful so much of the content was for two years and watching how shitty the anti-yokage stuff was and, game three against Brooklyn was tough to watch. It was a tough one to watch.

He was so awful. I don't know when he got hurt, but he was fucking terrible in that game. Well, he landed on Cam Johnson, and that's when people think he got hurt. But when you watched it, it was like, wait. But then he flailed himself again. And then this awful, awful thing floating around

that was supposed to help Embiid's case that he was coached to fall down on purpose to avoid injuries to his other parts of his body. And you're like, okay, so you're admitting he's doing this on a purpose and I'm supposed to enjoy it? And yet I would watch it and go, all right, relax. It was the regular season award. And the other thing that I think is unfair to Embiid,

which will happen here, depending how this injury goes, it's like, oh, he pushed so hard for the MVP. He cared more about that than being healthy for the playoffs. I don't think that's fair. If he's not healthy, that will happen to him. Because the big knock on him in the past is he played less minutes than Jokic during the regular season. So I'm not going to give it.

Two years ago, I think, was the bigger gap. So I think that'll be really unfair for Embiid. Two years ago, I think, was the bigger gap. So, I think that'll be really unfair for Embiid, but yeah, I'll admit, watching that Game 3, I was going... Game 3 was rough. I want a little more for my MVP choice. Right. I was like, what if I plugged Jokic into this right now?

Would it have looked different? And meanwhile, Giannis isn't even playing, and I honestly was closer to voting for Giannis at the end of the year, but then when I kind of went through the whole thing again, I was like, you know, I think it's really close, andnis isn't even playing. And I honestly was closer to voting for Giannis at the end of the year. But then when I kind of went through the whole thing again, I was like, you know, I think it's really close. And I didn't feel great. But yeah, a little PVSD on that one.

The toughest one for me is Draymond. That's really it, though. Coach of the Year was the right pick. Clutch. Foxes look pretty clutch in the playoffs so far. I do wish there was, like what we talked about a couple weeks ago, is there some way to commemorate just who the best guys actually were? Like having people like Booker and Durant on the list,

even though they didn't have enough games. Yeah, we'll see how this goes. Embiid next round has a chance to cure our PVSD. Yeah, totally. To some degree. Yeah, because it won't be as hard against Boston. By the way, were you surprised

Jalen Brown started blaming the Aaron Neesmith trade this week? What was that? I missed it. Oh, you didn't catch that? No. Yeah, I can't do that. You can look it up. Alright, I'll look it up. Oh, we didn't catch that no yeah google that you can look it up alright I'll look it up oh we didn't even

do this part yet are we hockey guys now oh yeah we we well the other than the the games today

I thought were really good and there were some good Saturday Sunday stuff last weekend but for the most part the NHL playoffs I think have been probably more fun

and more consistently entertaining. All right, let's do two minutes on McDavid. Here's my McDavid take because I have the multiple TVs going and I usually have hockey on one of the TVs. And when McDavid is on one of the TVs, he moves differently than everyone else on all the TVs. And he moves differently than anyone that I've seen in hockey. And I remember seeing him his rookie year when he played the Kings. And there was something different about him. You and LeBron really liked him. I remember when he was a junior. Watching him skate in person, even when he was 18.

It's like, all right, that looks different. Then they had the all-star game with the skills challenge. It was like, whoa, that guy moves differently. Now it's like watching the Bobby Orr 1969 YouTube clips when Bobby Orr's just skating around everybody and just seems five times faster than everybody in the ice. What's crazy is everybody's fast in hockey now. Nobody should

still be this much faster than everyone else he's playing against when we now have fast skaters all over the place. I'm entranced by McDavid. That Kings-Oiler series? Tremendous stuff. They're playing right now, actually. As we're tapced by McDavid. That Kings-Oilers series, tremendous stuff. They're playing right now, actually. As we're taping this,

420 to go. My Kings leading the Oilers 4-3. Leading the series 2-1. So if they pull this one out, this is incredible too because hockey's weird with this, but if you look at the depth

the Oilers have, it's not just McDavid. Dry Seidel's one of the 10 best players in the league. You've got Nugent Hopkins. Their goalie's awesome. And LA's just feistier. I don't know. Obviously, I'm not super locked into it, but I can't

put the games on when the NBA games are on because then I don't watch the NBA. Well, because there's not... These guys don't stop to complain after every possession, so there's less time. It's this weird thing they do. They just keep playing.

I don't know. I like hockey's version, like Kachuk in the Boston series, who's just starting shit with everybody. Crosschecks after the whistle and tried to fight the goalie today. When it happens in the NBA, I always think it feels like inauthentic. Like the Dylan Brooks conversation we had earlier where it's like,

part of the reason you're doing this is because you get excited to watch people on first take talk about you. In hockey, every team has guys like this. And their goal is just to fuck with the other team. And especially if they're behind, it're behind. I just love it. And I love the fact that Kings at Oilers is great. The Bruins are really, really fun to watch. I've enjoyed it.

That's what I've been watching, those two series. I haven't watched a lot of the other ones. Nugent Hopkins just took the face off and he lost it and cross-checked the other guy across the head. There you go. We're going to wrap this up so we can watch this. Marcelo, you're doing two pods this week.

I would encourage you to immediately watch the new Succession episode, which is set in Norway, which you're going to love. Oh, I love that. It's some great agro Norwegian shit very efficient people Norwegians

this this podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti and we will see you on this feed on Tuesday I don't have feelings within on the wayside

on the wayside I don't have feelings