The Bill Simmons Podcast - Koosanity, Daniel Snyder, Best Bacon, and Gronk Panic w/ David Chang, Joe House + Bill's dad (Ep. 259)

Episode Date: September 13, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by renowned restaurateur David Chang and fellow DMV native Joe House to discuss the struggles of the Washington professional football team (12:00), Dan Snyder's dysfunctional stadium setup (18:00), the best kinds of bacon (24:00), the best salads to pair with bacon (30:00), food at last weekend's U.S. Open (33:00), and hotdogs as the next food frontier (44:10). Then, Bill's dad calls in to address the state of Boston sports scene (53:30), the problems with the Pats (1:01:00), and belief in Brady and Belichick (1:12:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Every Friday, I will have a new column. Football picks, some mailbag questions, a whole bunch of stuff. It'll be fun. If you want to send a mailbag question to that, do the mailbag at TheRinger.com. Also, I taped a new episode of The Rewatchables

with Chris Ryan that I think will be up by the time this podcast lands in your feed. I won't tell you what movie it is, but Kyle, do you know what movie we did? Kyle doesn't know. Are you a big fat person? It's that movie.

Any hints? You don't know that one? Silence of the Lambs. Oh, okay. Oh, that might not be your generation. I thought it was Austin Powers. I thought it was fat back. Kyle thought it was Austin Powers.

Silence of the Lambs, a classic. And this was the longest rewatchable we ever did. It's like almost an hour, 15 minutes. A lot of James Gunn talk. a lot, a lot, and some makes you'll get some makes too, but it's a good one. Me and Chris Ryan, the rewatchables subscribe to that podcast. Listen to it, especially if you love that movie, I would highly, highly, highly encourage you to listen to this podcast. It crosses a couple of lines. I'm not going to lie. Some lines are crossed. This is an NC-17 podcast.

Anyway, check that out. Coming up right now, Pearl Jam. And then we are talking to David Chang and Joe House about a whole bunch of stuff. And then later, later on, my dad, who's in a Boston sports panic. But first, the Rock and Roll Hall of Famers. All right, on the phone, my buddy Joe House, renowned chef David Chang, two Washington professional football team fans. We have to talk about that in a few seconds. But first, Chang. Young Wei Ku.

Big Monday night. It was sitting there. Big comeback. All of a sudden they're going for the game-tying field goal. He makes it. He makes it. He ties the game on Monday Night Football. Timeout.

Comeback out. Field goal gets blocked. Game over. Walk us through your emotions. I turned the TV off. I was so upset. I still haven't processed it. What I'm now debating is, was it a poorly

kicked kick or was it a great block? It was a great block. They ran through the line. It seemed like it was dead on, the kick. The guy was three feet behind the line of scrimmage who blocked it. I mean, I just can't even process what happened. I wanted him to have the best game.

It didn't happen. But let's just hope it doesn't mentally scar him because the weight of the world of all Koreans and Korean-Americans are on his shoulders. So I never liked the Denver Broncos. Now they're mortal enemies. House, did you think he screwed up the kick or did it get blocked?

It got blocked. I mean, anytime there's a block, I think 90% of the time that's on the line. I mean, anytime there's a block, I think 90% of the time that's on the line. I mean, you know, unless the kicker kicks it four feet off the ground, you always blame the offensive line for

a block, I think. Yeah, that's how I feel. Let me ask this scenario. Is it better that it was blocked? Because what if he missed it wide left? That would have been terrible. I think that would have broken the hearts. It's definitely better. I agree.

Yeah, this was a better outcome. You don't know if he would have made it. He made the first one. He split it right down the middle. He made all the extra points. Chang, will you explain what's at stake here for the Korean-American community? We just don't have that many sports heroes like, uh, like sports heroes that are, uh,

in team sports for that matter. Right. Every, you know, Koreans and Asian Americans and Asians in general are really good at the solo sports like golf and stuff like that. But as a whole, the last sort of Korean football player that I can remember was Eugene Chung

drafted by the Patriots out of Virginia tech. Right. And he was in the first round and I was like, I was so ecstatic, but like he, that I can remember was Eugene Chung, drafted by the Patriots out of Virginia Tech. Right? And he was in the first round, and I was so ecstatic, but he sort of washed out. And we just don't have anyone to root for that's of our culture. So even though it's a kicker,

and it's like a first step, so it's just awesome to root for. We never get to root for someone. What about Heinz Ward? That never, what happened there? Because I thought there was a little bit of rooting, but it wasn't quite the same as Ku, it doesn't seem like. Well, that's the thing.

I half rooted for Heinz Ward because he was half Korean. But I loved him as a player regardless. I had Ku in my podcast last week. Very chill dude. It actually made sense that he's a good kicker because, and the way he described it was, you know, house like your beloved sport golf. He has that kind of Jordan speech, just the even keel.

Everything's cool. Don't get too high. Don't get too low, which is also the same personality that seems to work for golf. It makes sense that golfers who succeed and field goal kickers who succeed would kind of be wired that way, right? Yeah, of course, because that wiring speaks to the failure component. You know that you're going to miss. Golf is hard. Kicking a football is hard. You that you're going to miss golf is hard kicking a football is hard you know you're going to miss it's the resiliency after the miss that that um kind of

describes uh sets the bar in terms of how successful you're going to be so you got you i think the very best component is a chill bro who is the i mean mike, Mike Vanderjagt for Indianapolis is the only guy that I can think of that maybe ran hot as a kicker. Yeah. And he had a couple good moments, but he also ran himself out of the league. He flamed out. Vinatieri is kind of where you want to – he's the ultimate. He's still kicking.

He's my age. And never gets too high, never gets too low, always smiling, always just in good spirits. Chang, how does this play out with Ku? Let's say, I mean, that was about as high of a profile game as he's probably going to be in this season, that weird, crazy Monday night game with all the weird stuff that was going on. And then on top of it, comeback, all this stuff.

But what does he have to do? Is it just going to be one game winning field goal? What's the one thing that needs to happen to push this over the top and create some insanity potential? He needs to start leveling out kick returners on special teams. Just destroying people. First one down as a wedge breaker. That's what I want to see.

I think that's what he wants to do. He said he played football in high school and really liked hitting people and went to kicker, but I think he kind of enjoys that. So the first time he lays somebody out, that's going to be bigger than the game-winning field goal, you think? Well, yeah, that too, right? There's a lot of pressure because he has to – I texted you this. He has to be a Hall of Famer, greatest of all time kicker,

better than Vinatieri. Hey. High goals. Koo said in the podcast that he had not had real Korean food since he was in the sixth grade when he actually lived in South Korea. What was your reaction when you heard that? I don't know. It's weird because he speaks with that southern twang now.

He's from Ridgewood. And I want to know if he's like, what he eats, right? It doesn't seem like he even missed Korean food all that much. Yeah, so you had to take him under your wing, it sounds like. If he had made the team four weeks before the season and everybody knew he was the kicker, what would have happened in your fantasy league? Someone would have taken him in the sixth round. That's what I think.

Just to make a statement. Just to make a statement. Like, fuck you guys. I'm drafting him sixth round. Doesn't matter. I'm still going to win. Wow. I to make a statement. Like, fuck you guys. I'm drafting him. Six rounds. Doesn't matter. I'm still going to win. Wow. I can't wait until next year.

I'm surprised it's not higher, to be honest. Yeah. I was expecting to hear fourth round. Well, that's the thing. If somebody says six rounds, that means it probably would have been two rounds higher. All right. Let's talk about the Washington professional football team. This is a rare...

Do we have to? Yeah. No, we have to. Because... Okay. professional football team. This is a rare... Do we have to? Yeah, no, we have to. Because part of my job as somebody who has been paid for many years to anticipate where things might be going in sports, it really seems like the Washington football thing is going to a bad place. All the early signs are there. The team is not good.

The Cousins thing, they decided not to give him a good offensive line this year, almost as a strategic move to knock down his value or just because they're incompetent. And it's heading toward what looks to be 6-10, 5-11, 4-12, yet another wasted year for the Washington professional football team. House, do you have any optimism or hope at all? I have neither optimism nor hope. The one observation I'll make is you said it looks like it's headed towards. We've been here. This has been going on, calming on.

We're nearly 25 years now. The last moment of genuine excitement and hope was RG3 and his his rookie season now Cousins did uh help the the the dead skins to a nine and seven division winning uh record you know a couple years ago we made it to the playoffs but that that was you know measured excitement uh and we went in and played the Packers in the first round and got our ass handed to us. I might have got the record wrong. We were 10-6 or 9-7. I don't remember now. But in any event, this season, every single indication, every single offseason development pointed in a very down direction. They hired a genuinely competent general manager and almost immediately ran that dude out of town.

And in the most Washington dead skin way possible, they heaped, you know, rumor and disparaging assignations about his character as he went out the door. I mean, and then they used his draft plan with the exception of one pick for the draft. They got rid of both of their free agent receivers, two 1,000-yard receivers in the offseason, both of whom had established a wonderful rapport with Kirk Cousins. And I just call him Kurt, by the way. I'm going to keep calling him Kurt because that's what the president of the team calls him. Both of those guys are gone.

I'm sorry. I could go through the whole list. Anyway, I had very low expectations, and they are right where I expected them to be. Chang, are you? I couldn't agree more. It's tragically sad, and I think that the smartest decision that was made by Washington Redskins this year was by the strong safety Suha Cravens, who retired at the age of 22.

He saw what was going to happen. He's like, why would I want to punish myself for nothing? This is not even a Pyrrhic victory. It's just going to be a total loss. I'd rather be with the Cleveland Browns. It was a million dollars he left on the table. Well, I still think long-term smart decision. You'll see.

I agree. God bless him. He's like, well, F the money. I don't need the money. Why would I want to go take the beating? Chang, do you find yourself rooting for the Chargers more than the Skins at this point? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is how I believe.

I told this to House. If you're a true Redskins fan, right, and let's not talk about the name as horrible as it is, you should not root for the Washington Redskins. It's the only way that Dan Snyder will ever sell the Redskins if it decreases in value. Right. So the best way is don't buy any Washington Redskins gear and stop watching the games. So that's what I think a real fan will do.

Well, three years ago I wrote a piece for Grandland about where the football fans were that rooted for this team and how the math was not in their favor. Because I think Snyder's like a couple years older than I am he's probably early 50s and he's just looking at another 30 years it's the same math that the Knicks fans have done with James Dolan it's the same math that the Clippers fans did with Donald Sterling for 30 years you just look at the guy and you go we're never going to be good until this guy sells so what do we do you had a radical plan to try to, what was it, basically like a GoFundMe,

try to raise the money to try to buy the team from him? Try to do a Kickstarter campaign to buy the team and have an ownership system very similar to what the Green Bay Packers have, which are owned by single shares by the fans. So after I wrote about that, and it had a little momentum for a second, did anybody in your life ever tell you that that was actually a realistic plan? No one ever told me it was a realistic plan, but whatever happened that year, I can't remember,

because it all blends into one terrible year. That was when I realized that the only change that can affect the fortune of the Washington Redskins is by getting rid of Dan Snyder. It just can't happen anymore. I just dislike him intensely. Well, you're close with Stephen Ross, the Dolphins owner, right? We can

say you've done a lot of business with him. Can't you just convince him to switch franchises with Snyder? Just do a franchise swap? Well, that's another thing. Now I root for the Miami Dolphins and the whole organization. So, you know, that's my AFC team. I'd say the Chargers are the second team that I can root for because of two.

But the Washington Redskins, you know, I just feel like, you know, we could have any kind of owner and they'd be better, you know? So I actually can't even talk about it anymore. I'm so worked up. The house, it seems like the experience of going to the games has taken a nosedive since they built the new stadium. And then over the last couple years got worse our friend nathan hubbard had season tickets that he took over from his dad he wrote about it for the

ringer like he could not get rid of the tickets except for like two of the eight games what do people in dc say about actually going to washington games uh i can't say what other people say about it because I go so infrequently because it's such a terrible experience. It's a brutally bad experience to go out there. Snyder and his henchmen and what they've done in terms of the political chicanery in Prince George's County, Maryland, they control all roads in and all roads out and they make you a hostage. It's a hostage situation. I feel like it would be fair for somebody

to go file a criminal complaint. I've been taken hostage. I've been hijacked by this, you know. Now, of course, the problem with that criminal complaint is you do it voluntarily, but it's like there's no getting in and out of there for anything less than eight hours in my experience. Because of the way where it's located, the way the roads are, the way the parking lot situation is, and the actual experience of the game.

I mean, it's reflective in the numbers, right? They call 77,000 people a sellout. It was a stadium that was built in the first place to hold 90,000 people, and they put great big tarps up over big sections in the upper decks because they weren't selling the tickets. Now we're way past the point where it used to be a wait list for dead skin season tickets. And you can go to any game you want to with any seat geek purchase that you might want to make. Thanks, Havs.

Just two taps, Bill Simmons. And I bet, you know, I haven't checked the market. Dan Snyberg of the Washington Post does a great job of that, or used to at least. They used to be like, you know, you could probably go to a game day before, $20, $25. I don't know if that's still the case but i'm sure it's just it's just you go for zero bucks now i i'm really but how it's like no i i think if you're not a reticence fan you didn't grow up in the glory days of the 80s in like 1990 1991 and you didn't go to rfk stadium then you're never going to know just how bad current reticence stadium actually is

because rfk was just magic. Yeah. It was incredible. We all were raised in it. It's very funny this moment that's going on in L.A. with the small stadium. Which team is playing in the small stadium? The Chargers? Yeah.

I was going to bring that up because I think it's going to be a really interesting litmus test. It's only like 27,000 or 28,000 people. I was at that stadium last month. It's really intimate. It's almost like a AAA baseball park. All the seats are close to the field. There's no real bad seat. It's easy to get in and out.

It's not dominated by the suites. And I'm going to be fascinated. They play the Dolphins this weekend. There's probably going to be 5,000 Dolphins fans in there. There's some Florida transplants here. But I think it's going to be a cool atmosphere. And it really makes me wonder, are we going to see, is this the end of the era of, we had this, what,

10-year stretch of these people building these giant stadiums, right? Giant stadium and Gillette Stadium in New England and this Washington Stadium and on down the line. And I really wonder if maybe the move with Washington should have been build a 45,000-seat football stadium in D.C. that's easy to get to, that has demand. It's almost like the David Chang restaurant theory. Like, you want there to be a line for your restaurant. You want it to be hard to get in.

You want it to be hard to get a table. If you put it at 45,000, that's what the red sox have with funway park funway park you it's really hard to get in it's hard to get good seats and it makes people want to go don't you think that would work or am i nuts well that chang's point is exactly the point in terms of how those of us who grew up in the area um know it lovingly look back at the RFK experience. It was a 55,000 seat capacity experience. And that intimacy that you describe is exactly what it was. Like, you know, they had one particular section down by the field that was on a metal, I'm going to mess up the description, but it would bounce up and down.

Yeah, I remember. And the fans could get it moving. So it felt like the stadium was literally moving because that lower section was able to be affected by the fans jumping up and down. And we're at the point now where Snyder is, you know, trying to create competition among the three jurisdictions here, D.C., Maryland, and Virginia for the new stadium that he wants one of those jurisdictions to build for him.

The least cynical thing for him to do would be to go back to old RFK, renovate RFK, make it a 55,000 to 60,000 seat joint, put the team back in the city. I mean, that's his only last and best hope at changing the perception of him in this local sports environment. Chang, has that ship sailed? Can Snyder do anything to save himself in the DMV?

No. I mean, he could do everything right and I still want him to sell the team. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just so bad and it's so sad considering the the team. That's just it. I think it's just so bad and it's so sad considering the legacy of the Washington Redskins. Yeah.

Hold on, I want to talk about Bacon, but first, quick break to talk about ZipRecruiter. Our old friends, are you hiring? Do you know where to post your job to find the best candidates? Finding great talent can be tough. I get it. But with ZipRecruiter,

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Simply screen rate and manage candidates all in one place with ZipRecruiter's easy-to-use dashboard. Find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results. Right now, my listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Again, ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Back to Joe House and David. Can we talk about bacon really quickly? Absolutely.

I went on House of Carbs last week with House. Oh, no. It was my podcast. It was basically an honorary House of Carbs. Yeah, it was your podcast. Yeah, we talked football. And then I was talking about fish and I was talking about bacon. Because you had gone to Hawaii.

Yeah, me and House of Mallory, Ruben, had all of a sudden got into this serious bacon conversation and the do's and don'ts of bacon and what what qualifies for real bacon and i just like crispy old school a tiny bit thicker than usual bacon is my wheelhouse i don't like a lot of fat on it walk me through your dream scenario with bacon jang well it depends on the kind i think all bacon can be delicious even like the cheap stuff that you get at like uh like uh like on your on a poor bacon egg and cheese like the one that is almost microwavable um but the the really good bacon that i like is thick like country slab that's like not super smoky but enough to taste that smoke and you can actually

get that bite and you see that sort of thickness at steakhouses yeah right where they just serve you that slab of bacon on a plate which is to me one of the most beautiful things in the world well but a lot of times lugers well a lot of times of the steakhouses though lugers is an example if they do it right some of the steakhouses are like hereuger's is an example of they do it right. Some of the steakhouses are like, here's this big ass slab of bacon, but it's like just almost all fat. And it's hard to find the meat. It's not cooked that well. Why do they

screw that up? Which should they be doing differently? Because they're trying to make money, I guess. But you shouldn't do that. I mean, here's another thing. Bacon should, at the minimum, have around 30% of its body weight or of the slice in fat, right? One of the reasons why it tastes delicious is because there is fat. Otherwise, you're eating Canadian bacon, which is just the filet.

So bacon, to me, the best kind of bacon has some kind of chew. So you bite down and you get that little bit of texture and crunch, and then you get some softness and a little bit of sweet, a little bit of salty, and that smokiness just sort of rounds it all together. So that's to me like the best kind of bacon is when you get all kinds of textural contrast and flavor contrast. It's not just a one-dimensional fat. House, where do you stand on Canadian bacon?

I think it's perfectly fine on an Egg McMuffin, and otherwise you could take it and turn it into an ultimate Frisbee competition. I'd argue, though, if you haven't been to Canada, they actually call it P-Meal Bacon in Ontario. Wait, what? Penile Bacon? What did you just say? P-A-M-E-A-L. P-Meal. Oh, what? Penile bacon? What did you just say? P-A-M-E-A-L. Keymeal.

Oh, pardon me. Keymeal bacon. And they make amazing sandwiches out of it. They'll just slice I would say like two inches of this stuff with hot mustard on a nice crusty roll. It's perfection.

Yeah, that sounds to me a little bit like the pork roll that you might get up in the Philly, New Jersey area. Is it akin to that in that vein? Different. I'm just trying to show Canadian love here because it's something that I think is highly underrated as a food item. Oh. So if we had a version of it here in the States

that was a more accurate representation, I wouldn't be so dismissive. Is that what you're saying? Correct. And is there a place to get this penile bacon here in the U.S.? Penile bacon? I've never seen it. All right.

But I only see it in Toronto. So if we go for a Raptors game, I'll get a sandwich with you. Yeah, we have to go to Toronto because I'm dying to get up there and get some authentic poutine. Chang, do you feel like we have too much bacon bits in our life, not nearly enough, or the right amount? Because my take is not nearly enough. Funny enough, yesterday I had a business meeting at a random place because we just needed to meet up at a place called Bar Bacon, and everything is bacon. Everything?

I thought I was going to hate it, but quite frankly, it was delicious. I got a grilled cheese sandwich, and I didn't like the bread so much. I didn't think I was going to like the bread because it had raisins and like sunflower seeds in it. But the bacon was perfect. It was delicious. And they gave me a bacon sampler. And now that I think about it.

What's a bacon sampler? I want that. There was like eight kinds of bacon on a slab of like a plate. And it went from like least smoky to most smoky and in between was like salty and spicy it was uh it was actually really good i i they sent it out i wasn't gonna eat any and then of course i ate the whole goddamn thing what do you yeah what do you stand on the candied bacon um when done well i like uh one of my favorite salads that I make is a candied bacon vinaigrette. And I would make it more if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to clean up. So you fry the bacon into

lardons, which is basically like half an inch pieces, pretty thick. And then once you render out all the fat, you leave all that fat in there, and then you throw in mustard, some shallots, brown sugar, and sherry vinegar. And then you take some of the bacon out that's been candied. Oh, let me back up. You candy the bacon and the brown sugar, and then you take some of that bacon out, and then you throw in the mustard and the sherry and the shallots and you puree that. And you don't have to add any oil because you have enough of the bacon fat. And then you sort of serve a hot sort of spinach salad. Like that's one of my favorite salads is like the sort of wilted spinach salad with a hot bacon vinaigrette.

And I just add a little bit of the candied bacon. So it's tremendous. I can't believe House wasn't grunting during that whole thing. I was. I was keeping it a little in my pants. I was trying to, at least. You know, we never talked about, House, we never talked about what the perfect blue cheese wedge bacon bits type of salad is, because it's on every steakhouse menu. And it's always a B minus at worst. I always enjoy it. I love blue cheese.

I like bacon. You really can't go wrong with whatever the lettuce is, although sometimes the lettuce is too hard. My dream scenario, though, I think there's different types of blue cheese that people will do. Sometimes they'll just crumble the blue cheese. Sometimes they'll just do the watery blue cheese, but it doesn't have the crumbles in it. But the good ones, it has the wedge. It's not too hard. It's got the blue cheese dressing, but it's also got the little pungent blue cheese

crumbles within the liquidy part of the dressing. And then on top of it, it's got the bacon bits, but it's not really bacon bits. They actually cook the bacon and cut it into little, like kind of bigger than bacon bits. And then on top of it, you put the cherry tomatoes on it. And it's just a winner. When is that not delicious? Who doesn't like that? Anyone? I love it. My, my big challenge is big challenge is and I'll tell you what my default is. When I go to a steakhouse, I there's always a competition between the wedge salad and the Caesar. And the reason for that is because, you know, a lot of some steakhouses are known for their Caesar. And I love the combination of the garlic in the Caesar dressing plus the saltiness of anchovies.

And I'm a maniac for anchovies. I mean, sometimes I'll ask for more anchovies. So unless I know coming in that the wedge is a special wedge, my default is always a Caesar at a steakhouse. But when Chef Chang's talking about lardons, now if I know that the wedge is going to have some delicious chewy, sort of chunky bacon that goes along with that beautiful

towering iceberg lettuce, what you just described in terms of that blue cheese, if it's going to be like that, then I'll go wedge. But a lot of times I'm leaning towards Caesar. Can I just add, I think that of all the descriptions you've ever said, including sports,

that's the best description you've ever given about, it was this blue cheese wedge salad with the bacon bits. It was amazing. That was poetic. Chang. Well done, Bill Simmons. Chang, why don't the chefs cut up the iceberg wedge with the bacon bits and blue cheese and tomatoes. Why don't they cut it up for me and make it like a, like not a chop salad, but do a little of the work so the dressing can hit all the parts.

Why do I have to do all the work? That's why it's called a steakhouse. It's meant for you to do some work. Yeah. They'll, they'll do it though. Guess I was out to dinner. I won't drop any names,

but with a, with a known food person and this food person asked at the restaurant I was at, the steakhouse I was out to dinner, I won't drop any names, but with a known food person, and this food person asked at the restaurant I was at, the steakhouse I was at, I'll just go ahead and give him a shout-out because I don't mind giving the Capitol Grill a shout-out. The Capitol Grill chopped up our wedge salad for us. Wow. But I like the wedge. I think iceberg lettuce is one of the most vilified, underrated lettuces anywhere. It's something that people should be more proud of serving

because it's delicious. It's also good hot and sautéed. But I like the wedge because you can cut it so it's almost like a steak. Yeah. Nice big meaty bites is what he's saying. My biggest issue is if there's also French onion soup on the menu. And my thing is if the French onion soup is really done correctly,

that's always going to be the winner for me. But you so often, you rarely get the perfect French onion where they really burn the cheese on the top. We've talked about this before. And I really battle over it. I don't know which one to get. And the wedge is like a safer bet. But French onion is the higher upside.

If they hit it, you hit the grand slam with the French onion. I went to Ruth Chris with my daughter two weekends ago, which I hadn't been to in a while, because she had a soccer tournament and she wanted to get a steak. And I hadn't been there in a while, and I forgot how much I enjoyed not only the burning, the filet mignon and the sizzling, whatever the hell they call it, but they had the sweet potatoes

with the brown sugar pecan thing on the top. It was delicious. It was like, they just know how to do it right at steakhouses these days. I think there's been a lot of bad trends this decade. I think that's been one of the better trends. Do you guys agree? I don't think I've been to Ruth's Chris in years.

I can't even remember. I hadn't been in years either. I was excited. I love Ruth's Chris. All that butter. I mean, I love, I'll order it one temperature less. I'll get it, you know, black and blue. And then they bring it on the sizzling platter with the butter, and then you can kind of cook it yourself, almost Korean barbecue style,

so I can get it up to the medium-rare temperature that I like. I'll kind of slice it right away, just because I like that aspect of it. And I'm not a black and blue. I'm not a true paleo. You're a true gourmand. That's brilliant. Oh my God, you understand like cuisson and blue. I'm not that, I'm not a true paleo. You're a true gourmand. That's brilliant. Oh my God, you understand like cuisson and temperature. That's like, I'm so proud of you.

That's unbelievably complex. Wow. But Chang, you know, I have a food podcast. Yeah. That is unbelievable. That's why we gave him

House of Cards. I'm supposed to know. I'm supposed to know some things. That's just like, you're a savant. Like, not many people, not even cooks would understand that.

Chang. But it's fun. Chang, where do you stand philosophically on the surf and turf? I think it's fine. I don't love it. I don't love lobster personally like that. I like it cooked in different ways. But, you know, I'd rather just focus on one thing done well.

I don't need two. Yeah, that's how I feel, too. It feels a little gimmicky. It's just a marketing expense. It's just to upsell you, basically. I want to ask Chang a question. Speaking of surf and turf, this doesn't fit, but Chang served two unbelievable food items at the U.S. Open Tennis Championship.

What? That just concluded. He did. It's a true fact. Chang, tell the people, because here's the thing, Bill. This is the groundwork I'm laying right now. I demand an all-expense-paid trip to the U.S. Open next year so I can sample the entire food environment up there in Queens. All right, done.

But, Chang, tell the people. Done! He said it's done. Unbelievable. Tell the people what you had at Fuku. So this is our second year of having a stand, and last year we served a mackinac, which was our habanero spiced fried chicken sandwich with bacon and ranch dressing, very apropos for the conversation we've had today.

And this year we got even a bigger stand, and there was room for a grill, so we decided to add a burger because I've been reluctant to ever do a burger, so we decided just to do a one-off pop-up, and we called it the 163. I joked that we'd call it the Vita Scarolitis Burger. And we served a double-stacked Pat LaFreda burger with cheese, our own special sauce. And the real difference was the bread. We served it on a Chinese bing bread made by the wonderful bakers at, oh, my God, I can't even remember. I'm blinking out.

It was a Chinese bing bread. So it's a Chinese bread that is a little bit chewier, and we grill it. And I think the bread was necessary because once you have a double stack of burger patties, you need that bread to sort of soak up all the juices. Otherwise, if you served it on a regular roll, it just would have disintegrated. Yeah. And that was selling like hotcakes, I'm assuming? Yeah, it was a lot. just would have disintegrated. Yeah. And that was selling like hotcakes, I'm assuming?

Yeah, it was a lot. And might I add, if you haven't been to the U.S. Open, the cuisine is unbelievable. And we talk about food, we talk about like tailgating, and you imagine football or baseball and hot dogs, but I think the most underrated sport for eating and drinking is tennis, by far and away, because people eat and drink for six to eight hours. You're eating like two to three meals there. And I mean, I was really shocked when we opened up last year just how much these people eat. Like tennis, you just think that they have a salad or something. No, no, people are getting in there, and I love those tennis fans.

They're unbelievably good eaters. I was blown away by that being at Wimbledon too, how much food was part of the experience. And you really feel like you have to get the strawberries and cream. You feel like a lesser person if you don't do it. But they had a whole bunch of other stuff too the u.s open though it actually is a severely underrated sport to to attend i don't really like going to golf which is probably a subject for another uh another podcast i think i never know what the right decision is with golf. Do you stay at one hole?

Do you follow a golfer? But if you're staying at one hole, the food's got to be unbelievable, and usually it's not up to par. Right, Hal? Golf doesn't have the great food that tennis does. No, it's coming on. We'll save this. We'll have you on the shack.

We'll talk about the proper strategy for consuming live golf and also consuming the very best food. The tournaments have taken note, though, and they're bringing in a lot of local purveyors. There was a whole food truck situation here in the DMV at the most recent tournament that was hosted here. So, you know, the golf game is golf is golf is game up in terms of the food department. But we have to, Simmons, next year, me and you, the U.S. Open, because you know Chang's going to have another stand. And the lines are unbelievable.

Maybe Chang can help us cut the line a little bit. We know it has. The lines were very long. We had two lines. The lines were, that's what I heard. That's what I'm hearing. Two lines. I was very proud of our team. They all worked for two weeks like lunatics. And, you know, the Fuku team, big shout out to them. But I will add, Bill, we did a stand at the Northern Trust,

the PGA event where Dustin Johnson won. So, yeah, I think, you know, we're trying to get Fuku at all sporting events. We opened up in Miami Dolphin Stadium, too, Hard Rock Stadium, earlier this year. So we're going to get there for all sporting events. We opened up in Miami Dolphin Stadium, too, Hard Rock Stadium, earlier this year. So we're going to get there for all sports fans. Hold on, I have one more question. But first, quick break to talk about Bluehost, a top-rated website provider powering over 2 million websites.

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slash bluehost.com slash Bill Simmons. All right, here's my one big question. House and I talked about fish on my podcast with Mallory last week because I went to Hawaii and I just ate fish for a week and it was great

and I felt like 100% healthier after. A reader emailed me and said, halibut cheeks are the best fish to order. He said it was like a combination of like scallops and lobster and nobody ever has it. But when they do, halibut cheeks is the move. Where do you stand on halibut cheeks, Chang? They're delicious, but like, I don't know if it's the move.

I think that's a hyperbole. And that comes from a person that lives in hyperbole. I think it's a smart call, but you have to wonder, like halibut, depending on the size, right? You can get a massive couple hundred pound halibut, but regardless, there's only going to be two cheeks per fish. So if they're offering that as a special, like how have they been getting all these cheeks? That's what I would ask. If it's a special, then you really only have one order of halibut cheeks. Right.

So let's say you're at an unbelievable fish place in Hawaii where you know they're catching the fish. Every single fish is on the menu. You basically have your choice. Any type of fish you've single fish is on the menu. You basically have your choice. Any type of fish you've ever wanted is on there. What's your order? Man, that is like the best question I've ever heard. Thank you. Wow.

I like the flatfish. I love Dover sole. I know people say that, but real Dover sole is delicious. Turbo is probably still my favorite. I know I mentioned it before on House of Carbs. That is just, to me, a fish that you can eat with your hands. It's just, it's got everything. It's still got the cheeks, but they're way smaller. And I mean, we should get a turbo dinner one day, and we should just fly one in and grill it, and then you'll see what I mean. It's probably one of the most exquisite grilling fish,

and that's the fish that I would eat, you know, without a doubt. Wow. House, what's your answer? I would never say anything different from Chef Chang so obviously the answer is Turbo I need to have the wonderful Turbo you coward you've never even had that what are you talking about you don't know what it tastes like

I'm sure I've had Turbo in my life I truly love sushi grey tuna I mean I you know I'm dumb that way I know how pervasive it is. Do you want it cooked? No, I don't want it cooked.

No, no, no, I don't want it cooked. Because you've done so well talking about ordering the black and blue steak on the sizzling platter. And then if you went down to say that you wanted sushi-grade tuna cooked, I mean, that just negates everything that you've done positively today. No, I hesitated to volunteer that that would be my go-to fish order because I know what a cliche tuna is and how it's overfished and everything that goes along with it. But still, it's the succulence of that when it's perfectly prepared and at the right temperature that it's got a real chill to it. It's just unbelievable to me. Chang, I have a task for you for 2018, because you've just continued to conquer the food world.

You conquered fried chicken sandwiches, which people just didn't think could happen. I think hot dogs are the next frontier. My wife and I, we were flying home from Hawaii with our kids. We're in the airport. They have a hot dog stand. And my wife loves hot dogs more than anything. She's just eyeing the hot dog stand.

So I pretended to go to the bathroom. I got her like two, got two different hot dogs for us to try. One of which was a Hawaiian hot dog. And it had whatever mustard. It was like this yellow mustard, not too spicy. And then they covered it in like pineapples and like a little, almost like a, not salsa, but what's that, that the stuff with a little kick to it that they put with pineapple.

And it was like on the bigger side, the hot dog, it wasn't like a long, thin one. It had a little beef to it. And she was out of her mind. Was it penile? It wasn't a penile hot dog. But who would have ever thought to put pineapple on a hot dog? It was outrageous.

And it just made me think like we haven't really put all of our smart chef brain cells toward the hot dog yet well i i have reserved judgment on a pineapple hot dog i'm gonna have to taste this myself but secondly i agree with you because i myself went to the land of hot dogs because i did a dinner with a bunch of chefs in Austria about a month ago. And we did this little tour in the wine region of Austria, and all we ate were sausages. And hot dog is, you know, the descendant of, you know, all the sausages that came from Germany and Austria.

And I was blown away. And they don't even put it in a bun. They grill these giant hot dog-like sausages. And they're a little bit thicker than a hot dog. And they grill them so they're super charred. And they just slice them on a diagonal and put toothpicks in them. And you drink beer and wine on a plate of just cut up, you know, sausage-like hot dogs. And I was like, what's going on here?

Where is the bun? And you don't even eat it. The sausage is so delicious. And with the great mustard, I was just blown away. And I was like, this kind of eating needs to be done more in America where it's just sausage on a plate, hot dog on a plate, but like a really exquisitely done hot dog, if that makes any sense. It doesn't look like a normal hot dog. It looks like the best hot dog that's plate, but like a really exquisitely done hot dog, if that makes any sense. It doesn't look like a normal hot dog.

It looks like the best hot dog that's ever been made. So like toothpicks, like you're stabbing the pieces with toothpicks? Yeah, you're standing, there's like a table, standing table, there's no chairs, and they just keep on dropping plate after plate on wooden plates of like grilled, beautifully wood grilled hot dog like sausages. Like, I don't even know the Austrian-German name of it, but it was brilliant. How does that resonate with your brain right now? I'm starving.

I didn't eat lunch today. And there is Chef Balud here, you know, Daniel Balud, famed chef of Daniel up in New York, has a little outpost here, a DBGB here in the D.C. area that I'm not that far away from. And he offers sausages on the menu. I'm about to hang up this call and walk down there and order all the sausages. Great idea. But before you do that, one last, last thing. I don't think Chang knows this story. Do you know about David Stern and Hot Dogs, Chang?

No, I don't. So any New York, I mean any NBA commissioner's party or anything that the NBA was throwing, like three in a row had pigs in a blanket. As you know, they hand out the appetizers. And I was like, oh had pigs in a blanket as you know, the handout, the appetizers. And I was like, Oh,

pigs in a blanket. And I mentioned that somebody works for the NBA and it was like, yeah, that's David's thing. It's the, it's, he loves pigs in a blanket. He always,

he wants, anytime there's a party, he has to have pigs in a blanket. And apparently this is what this person told me. Apparently they, they had a party and there was no pigs in the blanket and he flipped out ripping into people. It's like his staple,

the pigs in the blanket. So then after I was told this story, like the next two or three, I went to, there was pigs in a blanket and it was like, it wasn't even like there were that many choice, you know, it was like maybe a little sliders, Pigs in a Blanket. And it wasn't even like there were that many choices. It was maybe little sliders. But Pigs in a Blanket, not like the most common hors d'oeuvre at a party.

You'll see it, but you won't see it regularly. And it was my favorite David Stern tidbit. The dude loves Pigs in a Blanket. He can't be all that bad, right? No, I actually met him once, and he was super cool. And this sounds apocryphal, but I'm pretty sure he told me that he grew up in a butcher's family. Is that true? Yeah, I think that is true, actually.

Yeah. Yeah, that is true. He knew everything about food, literally. He was telling me about all the cuts, and I was genuinely impressed with his food knowledge, and he just seemed like a super swell, smart guy. So I thoroughly enjoy this pigs-in-a-blanket story. It makes me even like him even more. Maybe that's a House of Carbs guest for you.

Oh, my. You think he's over his genuine disdain for you? We got along great for years. He's never forgiven me for the Chris Paul trade and what I wrote when that got vetoed. It was kind of a mistake. What you wrote was accurate. Vetoing a trade, not a good look. He dead fish handshaked me the last three times I've seen him.

Maybe now that he's retired, maybe he's forgiven me. Who knows? Chang, anything to plug? No, I mean, gearing up for this L.A. restaurant. So we're doing that and we're renovating Nishi soon. So and we just got a bunch and we just we just announced today that we're opening up a noodle bar in the time. Excuse me, a noodle bar in the Time Warner Center. So actually a lot to plug, I guess. Excellent. And also your House of Carbs appearance. House, you want to plug that?

Yeah, real quick. We're going to have an outstanding show next week. Chef Chang, God bless him, was thinking about how to help the Houston community. So we had two chefs, two of the most, two of the real pillars of the food community down in Houston come on House of Carbs. We'll run it next week to talk about their experiences with Harvey,

what they're doing to get back on their feet, ways that people can help. And, you know, not to bury the lead, the best way to help, get down to Houston. Houston is open for business, food and drink. And Chang and I are already planning a trip. So that's House of Carbs next week. You guys are planning a trip, but I'm not invited?

Well, that's the only way the trip's going to happen, if you're not invited. Damn it. All right. Well, send me some pictures, at least. Thanks, fellas. Sorry about the Washington professional football team. Maybe next year.

I'm not sorry. F them. Thanks, guys. All right. Thanks. Thanks, guys. We're. Thanks. Thanks, guys. We're going to call my dad. He doesn't know we're calling him.

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You get paid. All right, here we go. We're calling my dad. All right, my dad's on the line. We're taping this on a Tuesday afternoon. I didn't tell him I was calling. A lot of Boston sports stuff coming on. Rank it. What are you the most worried about?

Kyrie Irving being a superstar for the Celtics, the Patriots dynasty being over, or the Red Sox having no real chance in the playoffs? How would you rank those three? I'd rank the Red Sox being in trouble for the playoffs. I'd rank second the Patriots being in trouble. And least concern of the three you mentioned about Kyrie Irving. I just think he's a 25-year-old superstar

whose best years are ahead of him. You're pro-Kai retrade. Some people in Boston were anti-Kai retrade. Well, we talked about it once before, and I loved Isaiah Thomas. Having watched the games in person, nobody gave more to the Celtics, Boston, the fans, than he did. We were there the night his teeth got knocked out, everything with his sister. I mean, he just was tremendous.

But I just don't know at his age whether he's somebody you give maximum contract to. So I don't think the Celtics were going to, and I was afraid that he was going to be a free agent in a year and we would get nothing for him. So, and then the hip issue shows up. So it's very, you know, everything we're reading, it's possible he's not going to be back to January or February. So putting all that in perspective and getting the opportunity to bring on somebody like Kyrie Irving, I am in favor of the trade. You know, I certainly was worried about that Brooklyn pick. And then I look at the status of all these terrible teams in the league,

whether Chicago or Indiana or Atlanta, or you go down the list. And we saw it last year. You get to the months of end of February, March, April. These teams are tanking. And then you have Brooklyn and the Brooklyn pick that now is owned by Cleveland. Brooklyn played great the last 20 games last season. They have no reason to tank this year. They don't own their own pick. And I just question whether the value of that pick

is going to be even a top five. So yeah, putting all that together, I'm in favor of the trade. You didn't like it when it happened, though? No, I didn't like it. I don't know whether it was me looking at, objectively, the components of the trade, or it was more me feeling that the Celtics and Danny Ainge

had been disloyal to somebody like Isaiah Thomas who had given so much of himself to the team. So it was my initial reaction, and now we've had weeks to objectively kind of look at it, and I feel different. It was disloyal, though. I mean, they did kind of song down the river. Yeah, it was disloyal.

And, you know, it's a very, you and I talk about it, it's this really strange time in professional sports where both sides are disloyal. I mean, or another way to put it is the loyalty isn't there anymore. I mean, we've seen players traded throughout the years, but when you have players like LeBron leaving Cleveland and then leaving Miami and then now he's going to leave Cleveland again, and you have Paul George leaving Indiana and he's going to green your pastures,

and then you have the teams trading people like Isaiah Thomas. And I guess the reality is, and it's so hard to look at it objectively as a sports fan, is that there is no loyalty on either side. And maybe there shouldn't be. Maybe, you know, we all want a championship. And, you know, I go back to 07-08. I loved Al Jefferson when he was drafted by the celtics uh didn't get to see him play that long but uh would have loved to have seen him here his whole career wasn't sure about that trade initially certainly would take a championship as we got one

and i guess that's what it's all about, both for the players and the owners and the fans. We want championships. Yeah, I remember when Ray Allen left and there was some trade or stuff with him, I actually defended him because they tried to trade him like three different times, including one trade that was like canceled right before

the deadline i can't remember what year it was and at that point it's like why should he be loyal to you guys he knows that you tried to trade him he knows that you shopped him yeah so what is he supposed to just be oh i forgive you i i never understood that part well you know it's interesting today he gave an interview i think the first one I really heard him, where he, your old employer, where he articulated just what you were talking about. of the other 28 teams except the team that we had just gone to war with. For me, that's the single thing that made that so difficult, that he went with Miami. And boy, we had just gone to war with Miami,

and it just seemed like maybe if you're going to leave, you go somewhere else, you don't go to that team. Right. Well, he didn't care. He wanted to live in South Beach and play with LeBron. He didn't care. He didn't care. It's funny, though.

It has changed as the 21st century has gone along. It seems like it's been one of the things that's changed the most about sports. And I think even going back to when Johnny Damon went to the Yankees, and I remember writing about it for page two when it happened. And the Red Sox fans and the Boston fans were so betrayed by Johnny Damon. They just couldn't believe that he left and they couldn't believe that he went to the Yankees. Well, it was on the heels of the 2004.

Oh yeah. You know, all of that great playoff stuff. I know, but remember people were were so upset. I was. I was really upset. I was upset, too, but I went against the grain. I wrote a column about it, basically, like, there's no loyalty in sports. They would have traded him tomorrow if he was sitting 220 and they wanted to get rid of his contract.

And I think if something like that happens now, it's just not as big of a deal. I think from the decision with LeBron all the way through to KD going to Golden State and leaving OKC a year ago, and now it's just fans are ready for everything. They just assume these guys are going to jump around. They assume the teams are going to trade them as soon as they're not the asset they want the asset to be. And that's just the way sports is.

It's really, it's a strange time. It's definitely one of the weirder times we've had that I can remember. It really is. You know, I will say, though, way back in the 80s, you and I had a conversation when there were rumors that Dallas, the Mavericks, were looking to trade Perkins and... Schrempf for McHale.

Yeah, for McHale. Yeah. For McHale. And you and I debated, do you do a trade like that? You know, you've had McHale. And I'll throw a... It's an ironic wrinkle that has a similarity to Isaiah's hip problem. We had watched McHale play with a broken foot in the 87 playoffs. And he should have sat out, you sat out for his own personal future career. But he played and further damaged.

And now we see him walking around with a limp. Yeah. Okay, so after all of that, the Celtics at that time made a decision not to trade McHale or Bird, and eventually Parrish left as a free agent. Should we have made that trade for Schremp and Perkins? Probably. Well, remember what they did?

They used Danny Ainge instead, and they traded him for Joe Kline and Ed Pinckney. Exactly. And Danny Ainge mentioned that when he gave his press conference after introducing Irving to the Boston community. And he kind of referenced trading Isaiah and how hard it was. Yeah. And he talked about how hard it was when he learned he had been traded from his beloved Celtics. And maybe that shaped his whole viewpoint on loyalty and trading players that the fans love. Because he got traded. And I think he got traded a second time, too, from another team. Well, he got traded to Sacramento, which was even worse.

He went from playing with Bird, Parrish, and McHale to going to NBA Siberia, basically. True, true. It's interesting. They didn't trade McHale. But if you remember the 1991 season and then the following season, Bird's back went out. But that team was really good.

And it actually seemed smart that they didn't trade McHale. And they had Reggie Lewis, and they kept the big three. And it was like, oh, this is good. It was actually a good idea to do this this way. Was that the year we almost beat Cleveland? That was 92, yeah. They lost to the Pistons in 91. But they had a second run with those guys.

But now looking back, if they had been able to turn McHale into a young Schrempf and a young Perkins, I'm sure Ainge looks at that and says, oh, we should have done that in a heartbeat. We should have made that trade, and maybe that shapes some of what he does. I suspect he does. I read somewhere very recently that both McHale, that both Bird and McHale had said they wanted to retire as Celtics. Yeah.

But then I read that both Pierce and Garnett had also said to Ainge they'd like to retire as Celtics. You know, nobody's criticizing the trade he made then for those New Jersey picks or Brooklyn picks. Yeah. Maybe it depends on the outcome of the trade, which we don't know yet. So there's a long-term view you have to take, whether it was okay to trade people that have been loyal to the franchise. It's just a different time. I don't know that we can equate it to other times

well this is a good audible the Patriots though because you could have made the case and I think I might actually have made the case in a mailbag last spring that they probably should have traded Gronkowski if there was a market

for him with all the surgeries and different kind of injuries he's had and the durability and the fact that he's hitting his late 20s. I suspect there wasn't the kind of market to get back what you would have gotten back if he hadn't suffered the most recent couple of injuries. Yeah, don't you think they would have traded him, though, if Belichick had gotten an awesome offer for him? I think he would have traded him.

I think they would have. You know, it's the hot topic up here now. Unfortunately, very unfortunately, after watching Brady's performance last Thursday night, all of a sudden that's sparking the discussions about, uh-oh, is Brady turning the corner? Have we seen the best of Brady? And should they have moved him and just moved Garoppolo?

You know, we're getting all that discussion up here. That's happening? Should Brady get benched as a discussion in Boston? It Brady get benched? Is there a discussion in Boston? It's not benched. No, not benched. But should he have been traded to open the door for Garoppolo to take over the team? Oh, God. Come on.

Did they wait too long? Oh, no. And I don't need to mention who's leading that discussion. And it brings ratings up and you get all the crazy callers in. And all the people, how did you call out your term eight years ago? The home of the miserable or something like that? That wasn't me, but that was the fellowship of the miserable. I think Shaughnessy might have even invented that one.

Okay, yeah. Callahan called it Losertown, I remember, when I was living there. And then there was the Fellowship of the Miserable. But, you know, here's the thing. This was always going to end badly with Brady if he was just going to keep playing. Nephew Kyle is producing this podcast by the way and he's now he's near tears now he's very upset but um Pat's fan nephew Kyle but um if you look at

how Peyton Manning's last year and a half went if you look at how Kobe's I'm not saying that's gonna happen to Brady no I'm not saying either but I but look let's be realistic this the Lakers fans said this about Kobe once upon a time. Wow, he's never going to end. He wouldn't go out like that. Well, guess what? He did, and so did Peyton Manning. And Michael Jordan with the Washington Bullets.

All of them. Any boxer, they all go out this way. Even Tim Duncan, who went out about as great as he could go out, but that last year he could barely move. He was done. These guys... Again, I want to be really careful here that Brady could be

the MVP this year. He had one bad year. I agree. He had one bad game. I am a little worried. I have to say that. Here's what Thursday Night did. It reminded us that this is going to end badly at some point. And it might be this season. It might be next season.

It might be four years from now. But at some point, he's going to have a bad year and he's going to retire. And that's how this is going to end. Unless he leaves before that bad year on his own terms. How many people have done that? Not too many. I mean, Peyton Manning came back, he threw for almost, what, they scored almost 600 points. He won the MVP again.

Would have been a perfect way to go out. Four neck surgeries, kept coming back. I feel like he would have played again if anybody had signed him. I think it's really hard for these guys to walk away. And another really interesting test case is going to be LeBron James when it gets to that point because he's now going into, I think it's his 16th year. But Peyton Manning might say to you, what are you talking about?

I left as I won the Super Bowl. I won the Super Bowl, right. But they won the Super Bowl despite him. Well, he's not going to necessarily agree with you. Right. But he would have come back the next year. And I keep looking at this and wondering, would this be the ultimate way, having followed this Belichick reign from start to finish,

and knowing that the Brady era started, I was still living in Boston at the time, Bledsoe gets hurt, Brady comes in, and would it just be the ultimate irony if this comes full circle and going into week four, Brady gets hurt or whatever, something happens, Garoppolo comes in, the team plays better, and Belichick's like, Brady, you don't get to come back. That's it. That would be crazy if this is how this played out. I'm not saying it would, but it would just be crazy. I hope it's not the way it plays out.

You know, I hope we win the Super Bowl this year and Brady retires with six Super Bowl rings at the top of his game. And we get to then easily, he'll be forever a hero. He went out on top on his own terms, and Garoppolo takes his place. Can I make the case for Brady? Well, it's not that I'm not making a not making a case I'm not saying you weren't Don't get defensive I'd like to see him go out on top

Don't get defensive I'm saying I think what happened last week Was understandable in some ways Because Noah Edelman Who's You look at the last 15 years of Brady's career And he's almost always had

The reliable slot receiver dating back to Troy Brown. And there's really only been two years where he didn't have that guy. 06, and then 06 the year they traded Dan Branch, and then right now where it's like Amendola was his only reliable guy. And they had that one play when Amendola ran the Edelman route over the middle to save the third down and got plunked by somebody and dropped the ball but that was one of those over and over again go back and watch the superbowls it was over and over again edelman just figuring

out a way to get open on a big third down and making the play then on top of it you don't have gronk which we've talked about in the pod before, but Gronk not being the force of nature, at least in that game, for whatever was going on with him. But even just him dropping that touchdown, he never dropped touchdowns like that before. That was seven points every time. And then you go through Brandon Cooks, who he's barely played with. These teams don't practice together as much anymore.

So not to make a million excuses for him, but from watching football all weekend, which is all I did the last two days, none of these quarterbacks look good. Alex Smith somehow looked better than any other quarterback for four days. So I'm not overreacting yet, but it did make me think, wow.

It did make me see the finish line with Brady for the first time where you just go like, wow, how would this end when this ends? How is this going to go? What if this is just, what if he just plays five more games like this? Now what do we do? It did make me start thinking about that stuff and I hated it. Right. And I know you, you were, that's all you were, you were catatonic for like 24 hours after that game. I was afraid to call you. Right.

Yeah. Unfortunately, too, we have 10 days between games. So it's all anybody who's a football fan, and that's awful. A lot of them will be in New England. That's what people are thinking about, talking about. But the real problem is the defense is the problem. This defense we have, that's what we should all be really thinking about, talking about. But the real problem is the defense is the problem. This defense we have, that's what we should all be really worried about is what happens with defense. And it does feel like the door is now just open for the NFL.

And I know people could have said that three years ago when they lost the Kansas City game. But heading into the season, everybody was giving the freaking trophy to the Patriots already. And now it's completely different. It was basically 90 minutes of football, the second half, and now everybody's like, wow, the Patriots can be beaten. There's a vulnerability that I don't think any of us really saw coming with this.

Yeah. It was an awfully strange game. Like, as you said, if we're up 14-0, he simply catches that touchdown. Yeah. The momentum of the game's a little different. Kansas City has been... I mean, it's been

a tough matchup for us. Usually there, but obviously here as well. I thought Alex Smith had the game of his life. He was great. I don't think he's ever played better. And that team has speed that we could not counter. I'm not sure there's too many teams that have that kind of speed.

My fear is that you're going to be complaining a lot about Stephen Gilmore this year. It has all the makings for somebody that you had just complained about They overpaid him a little bit He's not totally your type of corner He's already made a gigantic mistake It just feels like we're heading toward a season Where you're just texting me about Gilmore You know, we'll never know

Because Belichick doesn't tell you anything I don't know if that was his mistake They ran three guys Three receivers on a vertical route, and McCourty made a decision to go with somebody else. So I suspect Gilmore thought McCourty was his safety help, and it wasn't there. I mean, I watched the replay. He casually kind of let him go by him.

It's not like he even tried to stay up with him. So he must have thought that McCourty was on his side and he was the safety help. So, in conclusion, you still fully support Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and you're still a believer? Yeah. Okay, good. Oh, yeah. That's the big headline. That hasn't changed.

But I do agree with you. The defense really was worrisome in that game. They were bad. They were terrible. It wasn't great. You were texting me, who's this guy? Not Van Noyer, the other white guy. Who is this guy?

Where'd he come from? There's a guy out there chasing a running back who has 4'4 speed. He's got tattoos all over him, and he's 20 yards behind him. I'm wondering, who's that guy? I'd keep up on these players a little bit but we had a no name defense out there which is fairly worrisome so are you going to fly out to watch the Red Sox

first round four game loss with your grandson and me or are you just going to stay there what's your plan fly out, what do you mean fly out to LA to enjoy the playoff losses there? What's your plan? Play out. What do you mean? Fly out to L.A. to enjoy the playoff losses with us. What's your plan? No, most likely the Red Sox are going to play Houston.

If they win the division, Cleveland has the best record. Right. And Cleveland would play the wild card team, and we'd end up starting in Houston. Oh, so you think we can beat Houston? Well, our last four games of the year are Fenway Park against Houston.

So there's a possibility we're going to play them in nine straight games. Did it bother you that Chris Sale could not beat the Yankees? It bothered me given that they lined it up so he'd pitch in all three series against the Yankees, sure. But he had a really good game against the shitty team the other night. I know.

I know. He does. I love Chris Sale. I wish he had beaten the Yankees. Just one time. Just throw the eight inning two hit gem. Just once. It didn't get a lot of offensive. I know.

It was frustrating. He's been unbelievable this season, but God, I just hate he was our secret weapon against the Yanks. Just like, all right, you're not going to be able to hit this guy. And it actually seems like they can hit him and they have good at bats against them and they drag the pitch counts out.

And, and meanwhile, judge started hitting again. He was, he's back from the dead all of a sudden. I don't know what happened there, but yeah, it should be interesting.

I don't, I don't really have incredibly high hopes for this team. I, it just feels like the whole season is going to ride on some down to one game for eighth inning, bases loaded, one out, and Xander Bogarts is going to come up and figure out how to hit in a quadruple play. And it'll be two outs that'll end that inning,

but also somehow two outs for the next inning. Well, my worry is that September 12th, and now we only have a three-game lead on the Yankees. Yeah. And the Yankees are hot again. As you said, it's not only Judge, but Sanchez is hitting. Yeah. The whole lineup is hitting.

Severino has been unhittable as a pitcher. If we end up in that wild-card position and we have that one-game playoff, I mean, are you really looking forward to that? I'm not. And then Chapman, they made him, looks like he's going to be the closer going forward again, which I actually think if he can handle it, it puts their bullpen in such a better

spot because now Batances can just kind of rove around and come in in whatever inning and everything falls into place for them. Well, I think if the game is at Fenway and Chapman comes in, there's a different element there. I'm okay with him coming in in Fenway Park. Yeah.

Having seen what the fans do to him, particularly when he comes in the game, and he seems to lose the plate. Hey, I talked to John Walsh for like an hour yesterday. I might have to give you guys a podcast. Oh, really? We connected with John Walsh from ESPN? Yeah, but I was thinking he could be your co-host for the Blue Plate special, which people are still emailing about.

They still want it. John Walsh is from my generation. Believe me, I know you think I'm just kidding, but when I walk the dogs and I'm minding my own business, it's frequent that somebody will say, hey, when's the Blue Plate Special starting? Somebody I don't know, by the way. Listen, if there's a sponsor out there that wants to sponsor it,

if they want to sponsor it, get in touch with us. The Blue Plate Special. I think John Walsh is available. Depends. You don't have Depends as a sponsor yet, right? You can break down Game of Thrones. Yeah, I think Walsh is in. We'd have to get you guys a producer who's at least over 68

to really fit in with the whole crew. But it would be a fascinating podcast, though. It would be. There'd be a lot of walking down memory lane, that's for sure. Unfortunately, my brain is still intact. I mean, if you don't do it soon, who knows what's going to happen. That's true. There might be a shelf life.

Who knows? All right. I'm glad you're in good spirits about the always chaotic Boston sports scene. Talk to you soon. Talk to you soon. Bye. All right. Thanks to Joe House and David Chang.

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