The Bill Simmons Podcast - Kupp’s MVP Case, Turning on Daniel-San, ‘Cobra Kai,’ and Million-Dollar Picks With Peter Schrager and Shea Serrano

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by NFL Network’s Peter Schrager to discuss Cooper Kupp’s incredible season and case for MVP, Rookie of the Year candidates, and which Week 18 games have meaning (2:27) before making the Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 18 (46:54). Finally, Bill talks with Shea Serrano about ‘Cobra Kai’ Season 4 (SPOILERS), and the new ABC comedy ‘Abbot Elementary’ (52:44). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Peter Schrager and Shea Serrano Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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but we're going to come back strong with million dollar picks this week. We have a couple of really good ideas. Peter Schrager is going to come on in a second. We're going to talk football. And then Shea Serrano is going to talk about season four of Cobra Kai with me. I have some controversial Daniel LaRusso opinions.

I'm just warning you now. And we're going to talk about Abbott Elementary, which Shea turned me on to, and it's warning you now. And we're going to talk about Abbott Elementary, which Shay turned me on to, and it's a fantastic new show. We're going to explain why. Thanks to everybody who reached out about, yeah, the Simmons family has COVID. Everybody but my superhuman daughter.

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Our friends from Pearl Jam, Let's hear them. All right. Peter Schrager is here. We're taping this later than usual. It is 5 p.m. Pacific time on Thursday, which is great because even some stuff happened. Like some Denver cornerbacks got scratched. It always illuminates how hard it is to make these picks when they're sometimes three days before the games. Anyway, we're going to do that later. We're going to talk MVP first.

Cooper Cupp will not win the MVP this year. He will not. I think both of us feel pretty passionately that he should at least be considered. So you make your case and I'll make mine and I'll just try to fill in the blanks from what you missed. Here's my case for Cooper Cup.

He is going to be the fourth triple crown winner in NFL history. The first since 2005. That's just one bullet point. the fourth triple crown winner in NFL history, the first since 2005. That's just one bullet point. How about the first player in NFL history with more than 125 catches, more than 1,500 yards, and more than 15 touchdowns? He's had over 90 receiving yards in 15 of 16 games, has done it in 12 straight games, all of which NFL record. And here's what I look at Bill. He's got 21 more catches than the next guy, Devante Adams. He's got 320 more receiving yards than the next guy, Justin Jefferson. He has two more touchdowns than Jamar Chase, who's number two. You add in

this. If we're saying it's Rodgers and it's week 17 and we're done, we're discrediting the possibility that Cup needs 136 receiving yards on Sunday to break Hall of Famer Calvin Johnson's single season record. But if he has 12 catches, he also breaks Michael Thomas's single season catch record. So you're telling me this guy could potentially go 12 for 136 and own the NFL single season yardage and receptions record for the history of the NFL. And he's not even going to be considered because Aaron Rodgers, who's ninth in the league in passing yards, doesn't lead in touchdowns, doesn't lead in yards per attempt, and plays in a division

with three teams that missed the playoffs and two guys that are head coaches that are likely going to be fired after Sunday is such a no-brainer. My case is it's historic what Cup is doing. There are a lot of great wide receivers. He's blowing them all out of the water in the history of the sport. And what Rodgers is doing is fine. It's fantastic. And he's doing it without an offensive line and he's doing it with a bunch of injuries on defense. But Rodgers has had better seasons and quarterbacks have had better seasons. So if Cup doesn't win it this year, we're pretty much saying it's a quarterback award. Fair points by I'm on your side and I'm going to add some things,

but we should mention this is a 17 game season. So if in the 16 game context, there's some stuff that he wouldn't have won, but the triple crown thing is a great point. Three guys have done that ever. Jerry Rice, 1990 sharp in a 1992 Sterling sharp. Yeah. It's a great point. Three guys have done that ever. Jerry Rice, 1990. Sharp in 1992, Sterling Sharp.

And then Steve Smith in 2005, which I had forgotten. So you have to lead in receiving yards and TD. But there's some other stuff. His worst game of the year was five for 64. Yeah. Not two for 12. That would be like if Nikhil Harry did that, I would throw a fucking party. They have no running game whatsoever.

How many running backs did they try this year? 100? Now they're using Sonny Michel, who is the fifth string running back for the Pats. They just gave him away before the season. That's their star running back now. Stafford, super shaky. Super shaky.

Robert Woods goes down with an injury. Robert Woods, they lose what? In the first five weeks, he's out. And it's just cut from that point on. The 15 out of 16, 90 plus yard games is nuts. He's had 84 first downs this year, which is nuts. He's had 20 receptions inside the opposing 20. He's over 800 yards already for yards after catch.

And here's the other thing. I saw this stat. He's 32% of the Matthew Stafford targets this season. Think about that. So when you add all that up, to do that when the other team knows if we take out Cup, we take out the Rams, and over and over again,

I'm watching the games. I bet against them. I bet on them. And when you bet against them, you're like, all right, enough with this Cooper Cup thing. Like, just fucking defend him. It's like, no, bubble screen. Oh, he's running for 17.

Oh, he's wide open in the middle of the field. Oh, he found this hole in the zone. Over and over and over again, the dude just is open. And it makes no sense because if you take him out, they can't move the ball, but he's always open. So I think he should be strongly considered. I'm with you. Yeah, and Sunday you're watching the Ravens game

and maybe you see the highlights and it's Odell makes a huge fourth and five and Odell's touchdown. Cup was so good on Sunday. In pouring rain, they throw him a screen pass, a wide receiver screen. He has four different defenders. He spins around one. He lowers the shoulder. He picks up 30 yards. He is their

offense. And what I loved about him was he was asked by Lindsay theory earlier this week, um, who does a great job covering the Rams out there. And she was like, well, what do you think about the 16 games? He's like, no, I agree. It shouldn't count. Uh, you know, the 16 games. And I'm like, wow. Yeah. I hear that. So it'll be Rodgers or it'll be Brady. The whole. Well, wait, hold on. Before we say that definitively. Yeah.

Because right now Rodgers is minus 400 on Fando. He's probably not playing this week, right? And if he plays, he'll play like one series. Brady's plus 550. He's not winning. Taylor's 14 to one. I think that ship sailed. Burrow's not playing.

He's 21. That's not happening. Cup's 40-1. Out of all the guys I just mentioned, because Josh Allen's 40-1, Mahomes 40-1, none of those guys are winning. There is a scenario in this Rams-Niners must-win game. I was trying to think, what would be...

Kyle, turn the fucking camera on. Let's go early. Kyle, get on. Turn it on press on what would Cup have to do in week 18 to make us reconsider the MVP award and I was thinking like 18 catches for

188 yards and 3 touchdowns and they win by 4 and it's just like the final Cooper Cup nail in the coffin but also clinches eliminates the Niners, clinches their NFC West, clinches their seed, sends the Niners packing.

First time beating the Niners in five meetings. They haven't beat them their own five last five. But if he does that and they're just talking about him the whole game and it's triple crown and it's 2000 yards and he finishes with 18 touchdowns and it just lines up. I could see the narrative shifting a tiny bit. The national game matters. It'll be Buck and Aikman and Aaron and Rinaldi. So you'll have on the Fox number one game. I think

that matters because we get captivated by what the narrative is. I think he needs to go, and it sounds crazy. He needs to go like 20 for 200 and that's what he needs. He needs to have a crazy game where he shatters these records. So we've seen this. Like in basketball, we've seen this. Like the famous David Thompson versus George Girvin. It's like, oh, I need 63 points to win the scoring title. Boom. I do wonder, like, obviously the Rams are going to try to win,

but McVay, it would be fun if McVay was like, fuck it, let's try to get him some crazy game. I know he wants to win this game desperately over Kyle Shanahan, who he used to work for in San Francisco and for years just cannot beat him. Can we talk the Rodgers stuff? Do you want to go down that road? Because you and I mentioned it in week three. Hold that and we'll talk about it in a second. Last thing with Cup. Who has a shitty secondary? Yeah. Oh, it's the Niners.

They all have, right now, they all are on the COVID list. There's six of them on the COVID list. There's the Niners, DBs. Now, they might all be back on Sunday, but here's the issue. They're going to be winded. They haven't practiced. Six different defensive backs, as of Thursday night,

have not practiced all week. And they're not good anyway. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the number has to be, but I do think there's a number for the MVP thing to switch. Because you made the key point. Rodgers has had better seasons.

It feels like he's winning it by default to some degree. I think, what was that guy's name? Bum Urkush? What was his name? Hub? Hub Urkush. I'm calling him Bum.um Urkush. What was his name? Hub. Hub Urkush. I'm calling him Bum. Hub Urkush, who everybody, I love when people just get totally bent out of shape about dumb shit like this. Like, who cares? Honestly. For a long time, it was a Twitter straw man

that someone was not going to vote for him. Then once someone came out and actually said it, everyone on Twitter, I mean, it was like, you know, people are like, I actually think that it should be just the football on the field. Like, 99% of us agree. Like, yes, that's how that should be. There are strawman arguments that we laugh at, but then you all of a sudden get someone to say

it on the record, and you're like, oh, geez. So everyone and their mother came out of the woodwork and was like, if I had a vote, I would vote for the best player on the field. Yes, we all would. What are you talking about? Well vote, I would vote for the best player on the field. Yes, we all would. What are you talking about? Well, if you're voting for the best player in the field, it's Cooper Cup. I mean, he's had the best season this year. And honestly, Taylor's been as good as Rodgers, too.

I think the Packers have had a lot of success. But, you know, the schedule thing does matter. I think he's been the best quarterback. So if we're just going to say the quarterback wins this every year, then let's he's been the best quarterback. So if we're just going to say the quarterback wins this every year, then let's just call it the best quarterback award. He certainly hasn't been the best player Cooper Cup has.

The argument would be, well, so they have that offensive player of the year award. The argument would be, well, you give Cup that award. And it's like, oh, who has the best stats or whatever it is. And then MVP is the guy that led his team. So they're number one seed and they're doing it with a patchwork offensive line who's actually played really well, but without Bakhtiari and without Lindsley left and without Billy Turner, all these guys. And then you can say that in a year of everyone and all this tumble and all this stuff, they

overcame and he's been the best player in the big games. That's fine. I'm not going to lose a second of sleep when he wins it. It's fine. Me neither. Statistically, Bill, I went through it like ninth in passing yards, doesn't lead in touchdowns. The one thing he leads in is passer rating, and that's awesome. That's a great stat. But in the games that aren't played against NFC North opponents, he's got a passer rating under 100. So you can't control your division, but gosh, he's had some huge days against those three teams. Well, and you go through how many playoff teams, because we have a general idea of who the playoff teams are going to be.

How many playoff teams did the Packers play? San Francisco, week three, they won by two. Cincy, week five, overtime, they won by three. Arizona, week eight, they won by two. Cincy week five, overtime, they won by three. Arizona week eight, they won by three. Lost to the Chiefs in week nine, but Rodgers didn't play. Rams, week 12, 36-28. And we're done. Pretty easy schedule for the most part. Now, some obstacles for him, right?

The receivers, guys were missing almost every week, and you mentioned the offensive line stuff. I get it. I also don't think their defense was that good heading down the stretch, but their defense did win them some games, I think, in the first 60% of the season. But Rodgers was never in the mix

until like three weeks ago because we couldn't really think of anybody else who should be the MVP. And then it's like, well, if it's a quarterback going to win, he's, he should take it. But we're ready to give it to Brady three weeks ago. And then Brady kind of tailed off because he lost nine, nothing to the same. Yeah, that was it. Murdered it. And Alan before had that shitty game when it was like, could it be Josh Allen?

Nope. Sucked. Rogers never had the, oof, that sucked. He just kind of kept cruising along. I think he'll win. I don't think he'll win unanimously, but even last week, Jonathan Taylor being bottled up by the Raiders, that was his. Everyone's had that game where it's like, wait, where was he? And they lost. The Packers continue to win and Rodgers continues to be good. So I'm fine with it. Um, well, can we do the exercise of, if you remove the player from the team, how different would the record be? I would say Rodgers and cup would be the two that would have had the most dramatic difference. Like if they just don't have cup this whole season, what's the Rams record? Don't know. They five

and 12. How do they, how would they have scored? Is Van Jefferson suddenly get the ball 20 times a game? Like What do they do? No. And I've said it on this podcast and I've said it on Good Morning Football. He's a quarterback, Cup. He sits in every position room. He knows every position. He's a quarterback on the field, if not a coach on the field. And they rely on him so much. And what's cool with him and Stafford is like, so Goff and Kup were roommates when they first got in the league and Kup and Goff shared the same agent. They were all buddies and it was great. So Goff is shipped out and Kup immediately becomes best friends with Stafford. Their wives are good friends. They have breakfast every morning. They're in there at 6.30 in the

morning. There's work that is put into this and Kup's done everything he possibly could. If ever there was going to be a wide receiver MVP season, it was this one. I went down into the wormhole of research and Jerry Rice's 1995 season. Oh my God. It's widely viewed as the greatest season ever. And he got 10 votes and lost to Favre.

And that's fine, whatever it is. You put up through just even the 16 games, Cup has better numbers across the board. And immediately I said that and I got back, yeah, but it was a different game back then. What Jerry Rice did was insane back then. Okay, then why doesn't anyone else put the numbers up that Cup was doing right now? The game is so different. Why is he such a giant mile ahead of everybody in every statistical category?

It's been an unbelievable season. It's been a joy to watch and he might not win MVP. That's fine. But I think us even talking about it here is a testament to how good he's been an unbelievable season. It's been a joy to watch, and he might not win MVP. That's fine, but I think us even talking about it here is a testament to how good he's been. Rice had the iconic 95 season and commemorated with Madden 96, which was

really the first really good... I'm older than you. Madden 96 was the first really, truly good version of Madden. The font of the 96 was a first like really, truly good version of Madden. The font of the 96 was a little tilted on the cover. So good. Amazing.

I think that was the year you could intentionally injure your opponents and you could just, you could hit somebody after the whistle and somewhere I would go, oh no,

there's a man down. And you could like, you'd get in fights if you're playing at three in the morning with somebody. Would you ever play with like, when they first put out the classic teams? I remember that's how I learned like about the old teams. Oh yeah.

Would you play with like the 85 Patriots? Oh yeah. Well, there was one year, I think that might've been Madden 96, where they had the secret codes. Like you had to, you could put stuff in and you could just kind of guess and these teams would pop up.

It was so cool. They had a bunch of Pats and the old uniforms. Wonderful stuff. There's been a lot of retrospectives on Madden's career and all that stuff. And I think everyone kind of talks, oh yeah, and then the video game and all the kids play it. But that sweet spot of EA Sports, Sega Genesis, 92 to 96, Bill, there was nothing better. And everyone raves about Tecmo. But ask Madden, that option, the ability to play a raves about Tecmo, but like Ask Madden, that option,

the ability to play a season, which Tecmo had, but like this was totally different. And then the craziest part was when all of a sudden the names show up on every player. Like what a cool game. Also way less to do back then. So it was way more important.

Like Madden came out, it really was like a significant event. I would play Seasons in my like childhood bedroom Seasons memory card for PlayStation

by the way I love Madden as much as just about anybody but we we did it last week we can't do we can't do a second year of

of the announcers kind of awkwardly shoehorning in oh you know who would've loved him John Madden it's like just stop we're good we're good

we all love them. We said goodbye for a week and let's move forward. Cooper Cup, if he doesn't win and Rodgers wins. You know who would've loved Cooper Cup?

I'm not losing sleep. Yeah. Please don't give me the you know who would've loved Cooper Cup. I don't care if Rodgers wins or not. I don't feel strongly about it. But I do think it's weird

that Cup, if he doesn't get mentioned for this season, by the way, they could finish 13-3. Yeah. No, and the Packers can lose. The Packers are 13-4 and the Packers can be 13-4. They could finish with the same record. Sure. So at that point, who's more valuable? I don't know. The McVay piece versus LeFleur, I think helps the Rodgers case because McVay is a better coach than LeFleur. Okay. LeFleur has the most

wins in NFL history through three seasons. It's a crazy stat. He's won 13 games every season he's coached in football. At some point, I think he deserves a little bit of credit. Not yet. Not from this guy. Alright, we're going to take a break. More football in a second.

This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, we're going to talk about week 18 in a second. There's a couple more fun awards. So Sal and I, when we were doing Sunday's pod,

I just thought Jamar Chase was going to be the offensive rookie of the year. And Sal was like, no, no, Mac Jones is like a heavy favorite. I'm like, really? Chase, I think, had five monster games this season. He also had a stretch where he disappeared for like three weeks. But he had these five games

that were just like just these crazy aberration games. I'd never seen a receiver in rookie years since Randy Moss be able, when you can tell he has it going and you're watching the game, you're like, oh my God, they can't cover this guy.

So right now in Fando, he's minus 250. Mack Jones is plus 200. That swung dramatically. I think Chase was like plus 500 heading into last week's game. He was. And I do a segment on Good Morning Football where I rank

the rookies each week about their performances, but also I kind of say, okay, if it was to be right now, here's who the offense rookies are. And all year, it's been Mack, even when he was losing games. It was like, because it's a quarterback, and this is the New England Patriots, everything. And then Chase goes 266 for three tugs against the Chiefs.

And suddenly it's like unanimous Jamar Chase. But as the Patriot voice here, I think Mack does deserve some consideration for this award, especially because Jalen Waddell is going to likely break the rookie reception record for rookies. And Devontae Smith's really good. And Amon Ross St. Brown is going to finish with like 85 catches this year and is going to finish with like

the fourth or fifth most ever for a rookie too. I just feel like the receiver position when it comes to rookies, these guys are all having big years, but all the other quarterbacks are dreadful this year. I think it's Chase right now, but I think Mac can win it this week against Miami.

If they win and Buffalo loses? He needs to win a good game. He needs to win a game against a good team that he was the number one reason they won the game. Do you need to win the AFC East? And I say that as somebody

who owns a Mac Jones t-shirt jersey and loves Mac Jones and defends it to everybody. I want to see him have an awesome game that they need where it's like, we won that game because of Mac Jones. Weends him to everybody. I want to see him have an awesome game that they need where it's like we won that game because of Mac Jones. Yeah. We've seen it against shitty teams.

We've seen it against mediocre teams. This Miami game. He's lost a couple games, like the Indy game. He's come close. Yeah, he's a failure. The Cowboys. He's played great in Tampa. He played great.

Second half of Indianapolis, yeah. Yeah, he didn't win. He needs that and the team needs that. There's some Miami skeletons, which is weird because Belichick's owned everybody for the last 20 years, especially in the AFCs. But there's been random games. That was the team of my childhood.

They always beat us. Going down to Miami, Brady had a couple tough losses there. They played them really well the first time. They're going to do the same kind of crazy blitzing thing that Buffalo did that week. They're just going do the same kind of crazy blitzing thing that Buffalo did that week. They're just going to put a lot of guys in the line. They're going to dare us to throw deep. And Mac's going to have to make plays.

That's how they're going to have to win the game. They have nothing to play for though, Miami. Nothing. I don't know if that stops them. Because two things. One is Flores, who I think loves going against the Pats. I don't see him rolling over for any reason. You can build momentum to the next year

with the, we swept the Pats. We have a chance. But also, more importantly for them, this is like the two, what do we have? Is this a guy we want to build around next year game? Because this is like

a facsimile playoff game for them in a lot of ways. The Patriots absolutely have to win. Who knows? Buffalo and the Jets. I know Buffalo is a massive favorite, but the Jets have played pretty well the last couple weeks. And you never know. Who knows? You want to at least be hanging around. But more importantly, you want the highest

wildcard seed possible. I don't know. If I'm Miami, I want to see from Tua. I saw it last week. It was alarming. He was awful. Bad.

I want to see it because if he doesn't show anything in this Pats game and then last week, how do I build around him next year? Yeah, and if you remember

Week 17 last year, they played Buffalo in a meaningless game for Buffalo and Isaiah McKenzie scores three times and Tua was, I think they lost like 52 to 10 or something. It was we got roped in on the whole Miami, maybe their defense. And we just, and two, it was just awful.

And the Vrabel coach of the year, that's happening. I think so. Yeah, I think the only other would be LeFleur if you looked at what he had to personally deal with

with just Rodgers and all that hysteria this summer. He kept a steady hand and they finished with the number one seed. You know, I think that's the only other option. Vrabel's plus 240 on Fandoys,

the third best odds. Who were the first two? Taylor's plus 175. LeFleur is plus 195. Both of those guys could lose this week. The Vrabel, them getting a number one seed is incredible. Everybody like DVOA

or any sort of playoff rating that you see, they're always like eighth or ninth in whatever list you have. And they missed week one ravaged by COVID. They lost their receivers for like three weeks. 88 different players. Lost their Henry. Yeah. So I don't see how it's not for Ava.

I think that'd be nuts. Anything else you want to hit with the words? Yeah. I mean, this is going to be a plug for the McVay coaching tree, but everyone laughed and sneered when Zach Taylor and LeFleur got those jobs. Like, oh, just because you're friends or you're in an elevator with McVay, but here we are. And McVay's got a division title in the balance. Those guys are both winning division titles. Maybe it's all right to hire some of the younger guys in the league. I knew you were going to do that. I just let you do it.

Yeah, I just served it up for you. So this week, our strategy with week 18, which used to be week 17, stay away from the games that don't mean anything. I'm just out. There's no way to predict it. I think you have a legitimate gambling problem

if you're like, I have some thoughts on the giants game. Like, no, stay away. There has to be some sort of stakes for somebody is what we're looking at. Now. The big one is chargers Raiders.

So let's talk about that first. That's the, that's the loser leaves town. One of those two teams is going home. I don't want to talk about Colts Jags and the tie pod. The Jags aren't beating anybody. They fucking suck. Yeah. Everyone had fun with it, about Colts-Jags and the Tide Pods. The Jags aren't beating anybody. They fucking suck. Yeah.

Everyone had fun with it, but it's not happening. So the Raiders, they lose to the Chargers 28-14 in week four. Last three weeks, week 15, beat the Browns by two.

Weird COVID game. They had to reschedule it. Came back in the last couple minutes and I think we'd all kind of written them off. Then week 16, they beat Drew Locke in Denver, 17-13. I made the mistake of wagering on this,

thinking Javante Williams. Or did we bet on the Raiders? We won on that one. No, I made the mistake of thinking Javante Williams could save my fantasy season, not realizing Vic Fangio and Shermer were going to screw it up. Then week 17,

they beat Indy 23-20. Now, the narrative coming out of it was Winston in practice all week. It's really hard. And I don't know. That game was sitting there. Wentz was terrible, obviously.

But even healthy Wentz. At this point, I don't know what to make of the Raiders anymore other than that they're basically the Michael Myers team. That's what scares me to go against them.

Now, here's the counter to all of this. I just think the Chargers are better. Yeah. That's my dime store analysis is like there's just two different levels of teams.

The Chargers, when they've struggled, it's because guys have been out or they've had injuries in key spots like they haven't been able to block because their left tackle's missing or,

you know, they've lost Bosa and Derwin James in the same game or they don't have Mike Williams. So their deep threats gone and, but you know, or Eckler's out, but they have other guys when they have, you know,

they have what seven, eight really good guys. And when they're all together, they're pretty good team. Yeah. So the fact that they're only minus three against this Raiders team that's smoke and mirrors

duct taped together. The pit boss, what's the coach's name? Rick, Rich Passaccia. Pit boss, Rich on the sidelines. No real deep threat at all.

Like, I just, I can't imagine that that's a playoff team. Okay. Let's, first off, let's,

let's look back at like that Chargers-Chiefs game that we bet our biggest wager ever on a team was the Chiefs. They were, I believe, down 11 in that game, had no right winning that game. And then at the end, Derwin James goes down and Travis Kelsey and Tyreek Hill could not be stopped. That goes 10 days after that,

the Chargers then, after everyone was like, well, hey, they went blow for blow with the Chiefs, but lost. They get blown out by the Texans, but they didn't have Derwin out there. They didn't have Mike Williams out there. They didn't have Eckler. They didn't have Lindsley. They didn't have Bosa. Then last week they got all their guys back and they were awesome. They looked great. And there's demons with the Chargers, especially against the Raiders. I did a whole deep dive on it. In every big game they've ever played, every one of them, the Raiders have won. And that includes a 1980 AFC championship game with Plunkett and Flores. I remember it. you know, if you want to talk about the Holy Roller, whatever it is, but they've been in the same world since 1960. And the Raiders have won every game.

Now, the Chargers won a bunch in a row with Rivers, and they, never a big game. Well, and they're also doing John Madden's widow lighting the torch before the game. Like, they're bringing out the Raider history for this game. This is where I'm leading to. Yeah. It's a home game for the Raiders.

They're going to be taking it all up. And Derek Carr, you know, they went to the playoffs one time when he was on the team, but he got hurt in week 16 or week 14, and it was Connor Cook who was taking snaps against him. He's never played in a playoff game. If ever there was, hey, all eggs in this bat, this coach, if they make the playoffs, this coach might have to be kept on. He might be the head coach next year.

Tip-off's rich? There's a chance. They have the opportunity because they fired a coach in John Gruden. They're allowed to interview other coaches right now. If you notice, the Jaguars are interviewing other coaches because they fired Urban. The Raiders, they haven't. They're like, we're still in the playoff hunt. We're not going to do that. We're not interviewing other coaches. There's so much at stake here and there's so, nobody believes in us. Look at all we've overcome. Let's just get one more win. Let's do it for Derek. They love Derek Carter, all that stuff. And the Chargers, it's kind of like, to me, better team, but also like, eh, if we don't do it this year, maybe we make it next year. Oh no, that's alarming. What do you think? I just think the Chargers are better. And I think one of the things with the Raiders,

we've seen how many times Carr just get discombobulated if you can actually pass Rusham. Not this year. But it did happen earlier this year. Remember? And I think it was, wasn't it the Chargers? Wasn't it Bosa? It was.

Who was all over the place and made the comments after. So there's that piece of it too. He says he folds when you hit him. Yeah. So you got that element too. But yeah, the movement has been on the Chargers all week. So the thing I was thinking was, I like the Chargers, but the minus three worries me because of their history with kicks.

Yes. Where I could see betting them minus three, but they win by two or by one. So I was thinking Moneyline. I don't think you could talk me into the Raiders. Because I think we are now in official... It's not week four. It's not week eight. We're now

in official balls to the wall. Better team wins. Yeah. This is now a playoff situation. And that's usually when teams like the Raiders kind of start falling off. What do you make of Hunter Renfro in a big game? Terrified of him. Terrified. Yeah. Terrified.

Perhaps one of the best stories in football this year. 97 catches. He's far away from breaking the Raiders franchise record. And no one has been able to stop him. And it looks like they're going to have Waller back too. So yeah. No question. looks like they're going to have Waller back too. Waller back.

So yeah. So there's some definitely, no question. I think there's going to be more money in the Chargers. There's some nobody believes in us with the Raiders. They're a home dog, which is scary. The John Madden's widow, that whole piece, that's a little scary. So yeah, I'm not saying go all in,

but I keep looking at this going, how are the Chargers not favored by four? Yeah. And that's, I'm not saying go all in, but I keep looking at this going, how are the chargers not favored by four? Yeah. And that's, I think there's just a lot of like, not a intangible stuff that is going in the Raiders favor here. And there's a lot of momentum with three straight wins and all this stuff. And they're playing for this coach pit boss or not. They're playing for him. They got a new guy at linebacker number five. He's got the best name, divine Diablo. And he was all over the field on Sunday, bottling up Jonathan Taylor. I know I sound like I'm rooting for the Raiders in this one.

I'm not. There's something fun about this team. It's a fun zag. They've zagged us all year. They've zagged us on Million Dollar Picks a couple times, Thanksgiving, even last week. Last week. But I still think like, all right, it's a nice story, but you still go back to Cleveland week 15, Denver week 16, Indy week 17,

where they're barely scratching out these games that a lot of stuff's going in their favor. Whereas I look at the Chargers week after week, just searching to get all their best guys in the field at the same time, and Now it's finally happening. So the question for me is like, if we think Herbert's special, he is. I think he's special. I've also seen him kind of suck in certain games, right?

He sucked against the Pats. He had a stretch during the middle of the season where it was kind of wondering. Houston Texans. Yeah, what's going on with this? But if you think he's special, at some point, do it in a game that actually means something and this would be the game.

So there you go. I like it and let's throw in another one. A lot of Burrow love this week. Maybe Herbert's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let me show you. Burrow Herbert?

That was a pretty, that was a staple of the morning television shows this week. Burrow Herbert, pick! I'd probably pick Burrow Herbert? That was a staple of the morning television shows this week. Burrow Herbert, pick. I'd probably pick Burrow just for the record. It's fun. He's got the cigar.

I like his demeanor. A couple other ones. So let's do three where I just explain to me how these teams lose. Okay. And then try to figure out how do we work them into million dollar picks. First one is KC against Denver. KC is minus 11 and a half. Huge money line as well.

They clinched a two seed if they win. They're going against Drew Locke, who's two and nine in his last 11 starts. And he just shouldn't ever start again after this game. On top of it, Denver's top two cornerbacks got scratched like two hours ago. Sertan and Darby. So they're out both cornerbacks. Drew Locke, I don't think, could score 20 points

if the game was 10 quarters. And I just want to work KC into something. Denver is playing for nothing. Kansas City still can get the one seed. I think the Chiefs win. I think the Chiefs win. I think the Chiefs win big. And they're going to play their starters.

I know that. They're going to roll. So you have that. You have the Colts who are, I think, 15 and a half over the Jaguars, which is way too high. But I watched the Jaguars the last two weeks. Part of you doesn't root for the Comet situation where Jaguars win and then we're going into this whole prisoners. The Jaguars, I watched them last week. They're awful.

They couldn't be worse. They stink. It's a terrible team. They're just trying to get to the off season. They have nothing. They have no receivers. They can't move the ball. They're not going to beat the Colts.

I really wanted you and Cousin Sal doing an imitation of Al and Chris discussing, now do they go for this here? Do they all just tie and take these? Yeah. Raiders, Chargers? No, not gonna happen. Oh, Al would be so mad. Oh, I think he might like it

because he's a conspiracy theory guy. Like, he might like it. Well, we have the Colts, minus 15 and a half, but we can get creative with that one. And then the third one is the Bills, who have, out of the three,

the least amount of stake because they're in the playoffs either way. And it's like, all right, so maybe we, you could say, all right, we don't win the division, but we're still like the top wildcard. They're stakes, but it's not like massive stakes. They're playing the Jets who've been undecidedly frisky over the last couple of weeks. And they are huge favorites too.

That line is like 16 and a half right now. Huge money line. Now, Fando has alternate spreads, which we've been enjoying on Million Dollar Picks the last couple weeks. We can take the Colts down to minus two and a half. That's minus 800. That's good. We could take the Bills down to minus two and a half.

That's minus 800. And we could take the Chiefs down to minus two and a5 at minus 470. And if you put those three together, you can start messing with fourth games. Like you can put them with the Pats at minus 1.5. They're minus 250 alternate line.

The four of those together would be plus 114. So there's things we can do. And this goes back to my basic question. Is there any way the Colts, Chiefs and Bills don't win by three? My only question to you is, we watched both of us in our big tees last week with all those winners.

We had the Buccaneers and the Jets were, I guess frisky is the word we use, but like the Jets were fucking good last week. They were good. And there's a ton of, like I'm living in New York and everyone's down on the Giants and blow the whole thing up. Frisky is the word we use, but the Jets were fucking good last week. They were. I'm living in New York and everyone's down on the Giants and blow the whole thing up. Joe Judge does an 11-minute.

Everyone is skipping and whistling in the streets over the Jets after losing to the Buccaneers, but they played really good football the last few weeks. Do the Jets finish the season? And it's that team that next year everyone's like, Jets could be a sleeper. They finished the season good. Like, did they beat the Bills this week and just say, hey, look, we're going into the next season. Look what we did.

We have to include the Jets. They're the only team that scares me there. I'm with you. I agree with you. The Jets are plus 16 and a half. They're plus 730 to win the game outright. And there is a scenario. It's stupid, but

as that game goes along, if Cincy tanks the Browns game, which is very... Casey wins on Saturday. Cincy and Cleveland is happening same time Jets bills. Brandon Allen versus Case Keenum, I believe. By around the third quarter, the Browns could be up like 20 to six over the Bengals and if the Bills see that they'll know they're locked into the 3 seed because the Bengals will have lost

if they just win they'll also know that they can't basically there's some scoreboard watching where they could actually turn it on if they realize

they could get the 3 seed or if the Bengals are somehow winning they realize they're stuck in the 4 seed anyway maybe they scale back I don't know how to play that from a gambling standpoint me neither get the three seed or if the Bengals are somehow winning, they realize they're stuck in the four seed anyway. Maybe they scale back. I don't know how to play that from a gambling standpoint.

Me neither. I just, I know that the Jets are balls to the wall right now, you know, like, and I don't, they didn't pack it in. A lot of teams have.

Michael, Michael Carter. Is he playing this week? Because he got a concussion during that Bucks game. As of now, I don't know. It's Thursday. I thought,

I think he might. Yeah. I don't know. I'd be lying if I, I think he might. Yeah, I don't know. I'd be lying if I said I had an idea. Well, we'll monitor the Jets. All right, we're going to take another break, come back, talk about the rest of the games, and then try to make some bets. All right, a couple more games.

Rams, Niners. Rams are minus four, and we could get a little ambitious with the money line. I want to take the Rams this week despite how Stafford's been playing. I actually think the way Stafford's been playing could actually help the Rams this week because this could be the, let's prove that Stafford is actually good at football plus the cup

piece of it. The Niners, it looks like they're going to play Jimmy G. If he can throw the ball. The Trey Lance thing is terrifying. Everything I've heard this Thursday is that they're going to play Jimmy G if he can throw the ball? Because the Trey Lance thing is terrifying. No, everything I've heard on this Thursday is that they're both taking snaps, but I don't know. Jimmy has a small hand physically as it is, and apparently it's like he can barely grab the ball. So they're playing it close to the vest and they're playing it coy, but I would imagine Trey Lance is going to be playing most of that game, I would think.

Which makes me want to bet the Rams. There's a scenario where the Niners get bounced. The Niners were looking like a sexy sleeper pick. And now it's like if the Saints beat the Falcons and the Niners lose to the Rams, they're gone. Wondering what the hell happened where they had this moment where it just seemed like everything was lining up for them to be this stealth sleeper heading into January. Now it's like, okay, we're not even in the playoffs. Did you guys end up, I know you and Cousin Sal were talking at 16 to 1, did you? 17 to 1, yeah.

We did a slight dusting on that one. So Rams minus 4, Rams minus 215 for the money line. So mark that one down. And then we have a bunch of underdogs that we like or that we're intrigued by. One is the Lions, plus 152 against the Packers. No Rodgers. Green Bay packing it in. Dan Campbell, one of the best rebuilding seasons

for getting a top five draft pick while also actually building some optimism. Pretty impressive. Unbelievable. They have two wins and one tie, and it feels like they finished the season 10 and seven. Somehow we've had them in underdog parlay like seven times and they've won twice.

So maybe it's a bad strategy. But yeah, they're three and a half point underdogs and they're plus 152. So we're looking at them. Falcons against the Saints, plus 164. The Falcons trying to finish 8-9. They were good last week against the Bills. And they came down to a couple of plays.

They really went toe-to-toe with them. I mean, they're not good at football. But I think they've overachieved for what both the advanced stats say about them. I think they're still 31st or 32nd in DVOA. I don't know if you saw it, but they asked Dean Pease about it today. And they might have been from our podcast last week.

They asked him and Dean Pease, who's like a grizzled old defensive coordinator just shit all over analytics, which was a great quote. I forgot what he said, but they asked him.

They said, you guys are analytically based on all the numbers and PFF and all that stuff, you guys are the worst and football outsiders and Dean Pease was having none of it.

Well, the Saints who can somehow get in and then if they get in, it's one of those things where I don't want to see the Saints or the Niners in the playoffs if I'm the two seed. Because if it's the Niners, they just have a ton of talent. I'd be worried about that. And if it's the Saints, now you're just going toe-to-toe with Peyton for three hours, and I don't want to do that either. Every bag and every trick in the bag because he's going to empty it. Like that's just how he is and it's a frustrating game no matter who they have on the field. It's like not an easy out unless it's Ian Book, which we watched a couple weeks ago. And is that,

that's the Rams in the two-seater or Tampa? It depends how it all works out. Yeah, it depends how it plays out. So, Falcons plus 164 to beat the Saints. The case against that one would be the Falcons plus 164 to beat the Saints. The case against that one would be the Falcons are super disappointing all the time. Big Saints pass rush stuff like that.

Kyle Pitts is hurt. He might not go. He hurt his hamstring in that game, which he was playing well against Buffalo and then got hurt. So, maybe we stay away. Next one would be the Steelers. Ben's last game they won us they were great to us last week though

weren't they I was rooting for them they really were I got emotional looks like Tyler Huntley for the Ravens both these teams have like ridiculously stupid chances

to actually make the playoffs so they have something to play for I don't know Pittsburgh Ben was terrible last week. It was so funny. The whole telecast was funny how excited they were that it was Ben's last

game when he has less resonance, I think, with the general public than probably any top 15 QB. It's like, oh my Ben, it's like, nobody likes this guy. What are we doing? But they're kind of the Najee Harris piece, the defense, the TJ Watt piece, the Najee Harris piece

the defense the TJ Watt piece the TJ Watt piece I think they're going to beat the Ravens so I was looking at either Steelers Lions or Lions Falcons but Steelers Lions is plus 605

as an underdog and I think we should mark that one down the Ravens are a very proud team, and I think they played so well last week in the rain and almost knocked off the Rams. And then when the Rams won that game, I can see that balloon kind of losing a little air for Week 18.

Right. Pats, 6.5 against the Dolphins. I would not bet this game straight up. I already know. Kyle and I can't watch it together. Or maybe we could. We could just give each other COVID over and over again.

But I want to get this down under three. The alternate line for Pats minus 105 is minus 250. And we could combine that with Chiefs, minus two and a half,

which is minus 470, and Colts, minus two and a half, which is minus 800. And if you do those three together, it's minus 110, basically even. This just in, Michael Carter running back for the Jets. Expect it to go.

He's a star. Oh, all right. Well, you know what? We're going to put a random Jets bet in here as well. I think we have to. He's a star. All right. Well, you know what? We're going to put a random jet span in here as well. I think we have to. We have no choice. So Colts, Chiefs, Pats. Minus two nap, minus two nap,

minus one nap, minus 110. Are you worried about Tua beating the Pats in week 18? No. He's beaten them before. And I know that week one, that was a fun game to go back and forth

and make the argument that Mac wasn't ready and all this, but they're different teams right now. Rams, Chargers, Patriots, Moneyline.

All of them just have to win. Plus 217. Talk to FanDuel. You know, the two places I've lived in the last 30 years, LA and Boston. It's the Simmons Express Parlay. LA, Boston,

three teams. We're going to boost that one. We're going to boost it on this podcast to plus 270 if we do it. If you sign off, we get both LA teams and we get the Pats. What do you think? Now, we're going against your Raiders. No, it's okay.

The Raiders were fun for the podcast to talk about. You really talked me out of it. The better players are in LA and gosh, Justin Herbert down the stretch. He'll find a way. Okay. This is the Bill Simmons ringer boost slash Mookie Betts regrettable trade boost. All of it. LA, Boston. Let's go. It's the Boston LA coast to coast. So we have that one. Rams Chargers by themselves is plus 135. Let's do it. LA, let's go.

Same Rams Chargers. If we put the Colts minus two and a half, which is minus 800, and the Chiefs minus two and a half at minus 470, can get that to plus 221. Let's do it. So there's a lot of fun. Basically, our premise is... we like a few teams.

We like the Chiefs and the Colts at minus two and a half parlayed with a bunch of different people. Yeah. And we like the Pats. We like the Chargers.

We like the Rams. We like the Rams. And we're trying to use those Chiefs-Colts lines to mess with a couple of them. So there you go. And then Underdog Parlay would do Steelers-Steelers lines? Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. And we're going to do the Simmons Express? Yeah, we'll do it. What's our fun Jets bet? Do we just do Jets money line, throw in a real small amount, 10K, nothing big? The Jets, they're not going to beat the Bills. Let me give you, how about a The Jets, they're not going to beat the Bills. Let me give you,

how about a little Jets alternate line where it's like, what's your best case scenario for the Jets? Like they win by, they lose by three? They lose by seven? 23-20 on a last second field goal and we ride off into the off season with Jets hype like you've never seen.

Jets plus three and a half is plus 390. I like that. Come on. Let's go. They can hang. Kyle, what do you think of Jets plus three and a half in the Bills game? I think that's hilarious. You guys should do it. Hilarious.

Alright, the million dollar picks for week 18 we've won the last three weeks we are up 646,000 dollars for the year not bad and now

we're gonna bet over and over again on the teams we believe are going to come through in week 18 and those teams are the Colts to win by at least three the Colts to win by at least three,

the Chiefs to win by at least three, the Pats to win by even like two points. Sure. The Rams to beat the Niners. And we think the Chargers on Monday night. Then we'll have some underdog parlays. So here we go. 300K on the following bets.

An alternate spread parlay. Pats down to minus one and a half, minus 250. Chiefs down to minus two and a half against the Broncos, minus 470. Colts minus two and a half, minus 800. Putting those together, minus 110, 300K. Oh, keep those Chiefs Colts bats in there for the Rams because we're adding the Rams money line.

Colts minus two and a half, Chiefs minus two and a half. Rams to win. That's minus 101. We're putting 300K on that. And then third bet is the LA Express. I've lived in two places

in the last 30 years, LA and Boston. We're going to combine the Pats to win, the Rams to win, and the Chargers to win. It's plus 217. And FanDuel likes the idea of the Simmons Express bet, the Simmons coast to coast, whatever they call it. The Jimmy Kimmel sends an email and says, hey, Bill, come work for me. I'll get Jimmy to bet on this. This is the Jimmy bet. Pat's and the two LA

teams, plus 217. We're going to boost that to plus 260 for this podcast. FanDuel is going to boost it as well. We'll know on Saturday what the official boost is, but they're going to boost this because who knows? Somebody could get scratched. They're going to boost it. Before we do so, we just want to pay homage to why we're scared of the Chargers

and why it looks too easy. Home underdogs, the Raiders, the super obvious team, the Chargers, everybody, money's moved toward the Chargers. There are all these signs, stay away, stay away, stay away. Nobody believes in us for the Raiders just have had big game moments over the Chargers. And Derek Carr, they want to win for him. As much as us on the outside might roll our eyes, they love him in that building. And then Rich Passaccia, the coach. Pit boss Rich. If they win, it's going to be hard to tell Rich Passaccia, you're not our head coach next year, if you took them to the playoffs amidst all they went through.

Those guys, those players are three wins in a row and Hunter Renfro scares the shit out of me too. We'll pencil him in for 11 for 120. Look, we're acknowledging all that stuff. I'm going to back Justin Herbert and I'm going to

acknowledge we're betting the money line only and the reason we're betting the money line only. And the reason we're doing that is because Chargers, weird field goal kicking situation, always, there's a scenario where the Chargers win the game but don't cover. And everybody who bets in the Chargers

loses even though they were right. Not us. Yeah, not us. So we're boosting that up to plus 260 and we're going to put 250 on that. And then last but not least,

Rams, Chargers, both to win. Colts, Chiefs, both to cover minus two and a half spreads. That is plus 221. And we're going to put 250K on that as well. Okay.

We're all in. We're all in. We have a lot of balls in the air. On top of that, underdog parlay of the week. Steelers-Lions plus 605. 33K on that one. Ben's last game.

Detroit getting one more in the books. And then finally, last but not least, the Jets. Alternate line parlay. Both of us, we wanted to put Buffalo in all these different parlays. Something's scaring us about it. The Jets looking frisky the last couple weeks.

Who knows what Buffalo is even playing for. You got the Chiefs. You have the Chiefs if they win Saturday, which we think they will. And then Sunday, you have this weird Browns-Bengals game where who knows, the Bengals could be beating the Browns-Bengals game where, who knows? The Bengals could be beating the Browns without Joe Burrow. Suddenly, the Bills are like, oh, we're stuck in the four.

We're up 15 against the Jets in the second half. Let's pull everybody out. Jets getting frisky, trying to go. Who knows? Jets will put 50K on that just for fun. Plus 390. Plus three and a half. Plus three and a half.

Alternate bet on the FanDuel. Plus 390. Plus 3.5. Plus 3.5. Alternate bet on the FanDuel. That's it. Those are the million dollar picks for week 18 heading into the playoffs. We only had to stop and start five different times. Maybe the COVID is bothering me a little bit. Have I ever stopped

and started this much on a podcast? Brain fog. So where are you going to be this weekend? I'll be in Los Angeles Sunday, Fox NFL kickoff from 11 to 12 Eastern. I'm looking forward to it. This is the first week 18. There's enough balls in the air. It's going to be awesome.

And then I might pop over to that Rams 49ers game. I might have to see that in person. There you go. All right, Shregs. Happy might have to see that in person. There you go. All right, Schrags. Happy New Year. Good to see you. Thank you, sir. Feel better.

All right, two times for me and Shea Serrano this week. First, we did a Rewatchables about Limitless. Yeah, baby. Which is a Limitless classic, which you can find in the Rewatchables feed right now. But more importantly, it's Cobra Kai season. It's, I think, you know, in the old days, it would be the end of December leading into January

was New Year's Eve, New Year's, college football. Now it's Cobra Kai. Cobra Kai has surpassed. It's a, Dick Clark died and Cobra Kai came in. Season four happened, Netflix dropped it. Give us your thoughts. You know, I kind of didn't love it. I'm sad to say.

Because I have loved this show so far. Season one is still my favorite. But it feels like every season they get further and further away from Miguel and Johnny. I think Miguel and Johnny, that's the relationship that should be at the center of everything. And we're drifting further and further away from it. And it makes me sad. I will say, though, you can tell they have the Netflix budget now. Whoever they brought in for the fight scenes is great.

They look so good now. They're just like, oh, shit, we're getting after it. These kids are really going for it. But it breaks my heart to say I didn't love it as much as I thought I would because I was so excited. I think we see it the same way. First of all, even a mediocre to half decent Cobra Kai season is still worth a binge watch. My son and I watched all 10 on New Year's Eve. We were hiding from my wife who had COVID and we were just like, screw it.

And it turns out it didn't help. Yeah, let's be clear about that. Cobra Kai is great. This is like a championship level show. So when we say we didn't like a thing, that's still 62 wins that season. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and it's also built where you're binging it,

where if you're going to watch, it's basically watching a six hour movie, right? Because it's 10 episodes, but some of the episodes are 38, 39 minutes. So, you know, it's a real commitment. I'm with you on drifting away from Miguel and Johnny. My issue goes deeper and is a little more sinister. Talk to me. Talk to me. I hate the LaRussos. I like the wife. I like the wife. I hate Daniel-san.

I hate the kids. I'm so tired of Daniel-san tying everything back to some advice Mr. Miyagi gave him 30 years ago. And his kids, the daughter, who's just terrible at karate, like really like the least believable of all the people who fight in this thing.

She just doesn't... There's like, oh, she made the finals. We're going to spoil some stuff, by the way. Anyone who cares about the show has already watched it. Oh, she made the finals. It's like, I don't believe she made the finals. This is ludicrous. And then they have the younger son who they try to position as his generation's Johnny Lawrence. He's a bully. And then Kenny turns it to flip, but I'm not rooting for that kid at all. I don't want any sort of redemption arc for him, but most important, I just don't like Daniel-san. And it really started with Karate Kid 3. He won me back a little in season one, but I was really drifting more toward Johnny Lawrence than

being Team Johnny. And now I'm to the point where I'm like, I just wish this whole show was about people trying to destroy Daniel's son. Yeah. We are very much aligned right there. I think he is, to me, he's the least interesting on the show. It feels a little bit like what happened is they did the first season and it was this big hit and everybody loved it because Johnny Lawrence and Miguel are at the center of it. And then once that happened, they were like, well, hold on a second. Let's get some more LaRusso in here. His team was pushing for that, because it was all of a sudden this gigantic thing is what it felt like.

But yeah, you don't like him the way that you did in the movies. He's just a different person or something. It's even worse than that. They've changed the way I feel about him in the old movies. One of the great things about Cobra Kai is it flipped the script and the narrative of what you

thought with Karate Kid, especially the first one. Was Johnny really the villain? Was Daniel more of a dick than we realized? All that stuff. It was really smart and it really made you rethink how you watch movies, what the prism of that is and all those things but now i think back like my son still watches the karate kid movies all the time and like i see karate kid one now and i'm like ah johnny has some points here you know like he did he didn't really go after his girlfriend he was a

dick but they're in the soccer tryouts like he did turn the hose on him at the Halloween party and and try to drown him like it wasn't like LaRusso was just this

victim like kind of the same way Kenny was in season four of Cobra Kai at least for the first couple yeah that

that underdog pluckiness it becomes a different thing when he is now a successful rich businessman and you're like oh you're kind of like cocky and arrogant. And why won't you just listen to what these other people are saying? The thing about it, like everything that somebody else says, he's like, well, Mr. Miyagi, this or Mr. Miyagi, that. That's got to be like after a while, if you're in that family, like you got to fucking shut up about Mr. Miyagi.

Right. Mr. Miyagi, like solid custodial career, it looked like. Was able to buy a lot of cars. Decorated a war veteran. Led two karate championships for Daniel-san. But this was not Red Auerbach. This was not

Vince Lombardi. This was not Plato. It wasn't every sort of social situation Mr. Miyagi had an answer for. You know, he was fine. He was helpful. I think he was better than fine. I think he was better than fine.

But just hearing somebody talk about him so much. You're like, come on, man. Come on, Daniel. Also, we both have kids. We both have kids who are at the age where they're pretty tired of us. They don't really want to hear from us in general. They don't want to hear from us

when we're just giving them basic tenets of advice that are useful, right? Like, hey, you should do your homework. Hey, you should sleep more. Can you imagine how much they would hate us if over and over again, we were like, well, you know, Mr. Miyagi told me once, dot, dot, dot. Your kids would be like, hey, give it a rest.

We've never even met this guy. Who is he? 100%, 100%. So listen, this is the only way we're heading into season five. They laid the groundwork, some breadcrumbs for the bad guy from Karate Kid 2, who was great last season. That was a nice little surprise. But him coming back and teaming up with Daniel-san.

But really what needs to happen is him and his wife, they need to get divorced. Because the wife is a great character. She needs to leave Daniel-san and either start dating Johnny Lawrence or somebody else or somebody who doesn't like her. There needs to be, we need to get her out of the family because I actually like her. And I lose confidence in her that she thinks like, Daniel's my guy. I love this guy. He's awesome. It's like, what's awesome about him? He spends no time in his car business. He's devoted all of his spare time to this dojo, where all he does is basically do yoga with his students and then get them to wash his car. And that's all he does. It's like, hey, what is this guy good at? Get away from this guy.

Bad father. His kids are running. His daughter's like losing her mind. His son's a bully. Like what, what's, what are the wins with this guy? I was, I was excited about, um, a few things in this season.

Number one, I, I really like, uh, Tori. I like her being just like a, well, I think we talked about this in season three.

I thought when she has a big fight at the end, she just decided to put the spotlight on herself. She's like, I'm going to, I'm going to take over everything. It's just a great villain face. I really liked her going nuts. Robbie Keene got fucking

yoked. My boy came back ready. He's great. Well, Miguel too. Miguel put on, what, 20 pounds of I don't know what. Miguel's got a man body now. Yeah, Miguel's like a man. It does not seem like a junior in high school. I'll tell you that much.

If he hits you with one of those kicks, you're fucking going down for a while now. It's a wrap. Man, but what a fun show to watch. The kids, I thought, strong seasons from everybody. I liked all the plots, except for the LuRusso daughter.

I still don't understand, A, what is motivating her with the karate side? What are her other interests? Does she think this is a long-form platform for her to do whatever else? And also, why do these guys like her when over and over again, she's a disappointment to Miguel and to Robbie? At some point, just cut the bait. Stop being interested in her at all.

But I'm with you on Tori. I thought she was the most interesting season four character because they left her in season three. She's like Drago. She's just gone off the deep end. She's a super villain. She has no human qualities at all anymore.

But season four, they reeled it back and I thought they did a good job with it. She's great. I'm very excited about Kenny in season five. i think he's gonna be a a super strong villain when he just leans in and he's like he tells the new that daniel's son like i'm just gonna fuck your whole world up now like yeah all right i'm back i'm back let's go i want to see it so my son's biggest complaint with season four was not enough Kenny. That they could have taken

20 of the Daniel-san scenes and just given them to Kenny. Because Kenny, I was really invested the first couple episodes of like, oh, we're basically running back Daniel LaRusso with this tiny black kid who's got this brother who's in juvie and there's this backstory

and I'm like, I want to see where this goes. And how is he going to fight back with the bullies in 2021? What are his mechanisms now? They're videotaping stuff. They're cyber bullying him. How is he going to basically realize karate is the savior? And then we don't see him for like, what, three, four episodes? And then we come back, he's good at karate and and all of a sudden he's tough and it's like where was the arc you went from point a to point d and i missed point b and point c where was it so that's my biggest criticism because i like that character too he was he was so good he's such a great introduction you watch them and you're like all right i'm in and then when you see him turn bad and you can see like I wish I knew his name

I'm going to try to find the guy's name who plays him Kenny but he does such like a small thing with his face where he it's like a little thing he does with his eyebrows where he at one point he looks totally innocent and insecure and like just doesn't believe in himself and then by the end

it's a small change but he looks totally evil and just like ready to do bad things. And I really like when an actor can do that. I like that they acknowledge with Hawk how ridiculous it was that he, he flipped sides at the end of season three and he had to build his trust back.

They end up, they cut his hair. So they go, they basically take away his superpower. And then as we're watching it, heading toward the season finale, I was saying to my son, like, it'd be fun if Hawk won the tournament,

but they'll never do that. Yeah. And then they actually did it, which I thought, um, was a nice little twist slash wrinkle. I was, I was surprised that they,

that they went that way. I was glad that they did. I like Hawk. I was glad to see that he like, finally got a little bit of shine. You knew Miguel wasn't going to win it again because he's just out. He's like, I'm done with all of this. You guys can have it.

Miguel's like, I'm 30 in real life. I got to start making movies. So he was done. I thought Robbie might pull it out, but Jacob, the guy's real name is Jacob. Eli giving the talk when he's like, I'm the guy who's going to fucking win this thing. Like, yeah, what a lie.

What a lie. Well, let's talk about the big addition to season four, which was Terry Silver, the evil dojo from Karate Kid 3, one of the worst movies of the 80s, one of the most unintentionally hilarious movies of the 80s, a movie that has lived on now as just a pure comedy. It started out as an intentional drama and now is over the top and a few other ones is now just a comedy. Never thought they'd bring him back. They bring

him back. He kind of looks like a cross between Doc and Back to the Future and like Christopher Walken when we see him. He's in Malibu in some super fancy beachfront mansion. And it seems like he's gone to this kind of business side and he's done with that side of life. And then slowly we see him start getting reeled back in by Kreese, finally leading to, you knew the ponytail was coming back. He finally did it. I loved it. I loved that part. It was great. But I love that he acknowledged how insane he was in Karate Kid 3. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great bit. It's one of the best parts of the whole season. It's like, wow, I was doing a lot of cocaine

back then. I was just crazy. It's like, yeah, that makes sense. That Karate Kid 3, you had to have been on cocaine. There's no other way. And he talked about how nuts is it. I devoted my life to trying to destroy a teenage karate champion, which was a running joke for everyone for 30 years. But I thought he was good. More importantly, I don't know how old he is in real life, but I thought his karate was pretty good.

He's got to be in his 60s now, right? Yeah, he looked great. He looked like. He still, he looked like if he had just stayed in that character for his whole life, he's 59 right now. He gets out there and he starts, starts kicking around. You know what I was, I was a little disappointed in cause he shows up and he's just a great bad guy. The thing you're talking about, about a karate kid three being a comedy. When you watch it now, when we get introduced to him, he's like in a hot tub on a big cell phone with a ponytail and an earring talking about dumping nuclear waste into the river in South America. So like he's doing every single bad thing guy you can think of. So he shows up here and he's doing a more

modern version of it. And he's a really great bad guy face. And I thought, okay, cool. We're going to have him and we're going to have crease teamed up. Creases the ultimate bad guy all of the time. But then crease goes the opposite way. And it's like, he's going to be a good guy now. And I just, I wasn't, I didn't like, I love crease as a character. One of my favorite movie characters, TV characters ever. He's so good when he's just evil and conniving.

And they were like pulling that away from him. Yeah, nobody wants good Kreese. I wasn't looking for that. I have a Kreese action figure right here as we talk about that. Yeah, Kreese should have been one of those people that just stayed a certain way. But I think that's part of the problem when you're doing this many episodes and they're this long. You have to,

it almost becomes like professional wrestling where it's like, Chase Serrano's a good guy. That's a good point. Oh, now he's a bad guy. Oh, now he's a good guy again. And it's this good guy, bad guy thing that I think they're trapped in.

Heading forward, how many more seasons of this show do you want? And do you think, before this really tails off because they're pushing it at this point you know you know i think all that they have to do because i think you can make this show as many seasons as you want to make it if you just pull away from larusso yeah let the other people come in just cycle them in we have like kenny becomes the new star of the show yeah you can you You age out all the other high school kids.

And now we're just following Kenny from grade nine to grade 12, which I think would be great. And then at some point you have a new kid come, like you could do it forever. If you have the, the right people and you can just keep bringing in little, little characters from the movies. If you want,

you don't probably don't even have to do that after a while. Cause we've pretty much gotten all of the ones we wanted. I did want to see Karate's bad boy Mike Barnes show up. I thought for sure. Where is he? Is he alive? I thought for sure we were getting him. They hinted maybe he's coming for the fifth season.

Get him in here. He was great. Because he beat the hell out of Daniel LaRusso in the tournament. Yeah, it wasn't close. He kept taking points away from himself just like on purpose, remember? He put up like 15 points on him. He's supposed to go to three or whatever.

But anyway, what I'm saying is, yeah, do it as long as you want. Cycle in these. They can clearly find the characters. Bringing in Miguel, it worked because we were just focused on him. You bring in Torrey, it worked. You bring in Kenny, it works.

Like, just do that. Let's watch that. I would love to watch that. Who do you have, Mike Barnes against Chong Li in Kumite? Chong Li is putting him in the dirt. Not even close? We never saw Mike Barnes really get touched in any sort of tournament. I don't know what his ceiling was.

We never even saw anyone test him. Yeah. Chong Li, I don't know what his ceiling was. We never even saw anyone test him. Yeah. Chong Li, I don't know. You could get Chong Li maybe playing to the crowd a little bit, turning around. I think he leaves some openings. All right, I'm going to give you choices for Daniel San for season five. Here are the options.

Okay. Divorce. Drug problem. Okay. It's just getting darker and darker killed off killed off? killed off he's out

wow get rid of him we take Macchio we take the money we're paying Macchio kill him off make that the plot for season 5 and use that money and maybe we go get Mike Barnes

maybe is Van Damme still around? maybe Van Damme moves into Encino five and use that money and maybe we go get Mike Barnes. Maybe is Von Dom still around? Maybe Von Dom moves into Encino. Maybe we use that money elsewhere. Is Daniel sunk cost? How do you kill off the karate kid? Might be time. I don't think you can do it.

I think. Listen, you and I just said there wasn't one redeeming thing about him in season four. There's not, he's not likable. He's not funny. I don't, I'm tired of hearing him talk about Mr. Biagi. What's good about Daniel? All right. Get him out.

All right. We'll get him out of here. Get him out. Those are the options. I'll go divorced. I go divorced. His life falls apart. Yeah.

He does some time for tax evasion. It turns out he's like a seedy businessman and now he's just there you go. That'd be great. Well, he's a terrible father and I don't really enjoy his character anymore. And I think his wife could do better. Cobra Kai, final grade. I'm going to go by the Cobra Kai standards

B minus C plus range for what I enjoy with a binge watch standard. It's still a B plus as a binge watch. Yeah, I'm right. I had a B plus coming stand. It's still a B-plus as a binge watch. Yeah, I'm right. I had a B-plus coming in. It's still, it's a season one. I don't think we'll ever get to catch season one just because it was so electric.

I think I go, I go back and I rewatch Miguel's fights from the tournament. I go back and I rewatch when Cobra Kai comes in. Cobra Kai, Cobra, they have to get a black suit. Oh my God, it's so fucking good. But yeah, this, this season, it's my god it's so fucking good but yeah this season it's a B plus binge just sit down

watch it in one whole day you're gonna have a great time and then you know there you go season 4 MVP season 4 MVP Johnny

Johnny Lawrence again give me Johnny Lawrence in first place we got a couple of scenes this time where he gets to be like emotional

yeah oh man he was so good he's such a good actor um Give me Johnny Lawrence in first place. We got a couple of scenes this time where he gets to be emotional. Yeah. Oh, man. He was so good. He's such a good actor. Most underrated performer is Tori. I think she's great. Those are my top two for the season.

And then I wish we had more Miguel always. I'm with you. Well, Miguel seems like he, now that he's an adult, maybe he should be getting thrown in the mix I'm with you. Well, Miguel seems like he, now that he's an adult, maybe he should be getting thrown in the mix for some parts that are out there. So we have Michael Payne and five movies a year. I can't wait for that career. There's a moment.

He's got some size now. Robbie seems short in real life, which I think is going to be a problem. But Miguel seems like he's got some size. I feel like there's a Netflix action movie in his future. Yeah, a great look. Yeah, there's some moves for him. Alright, speaking of TV,

I asked you, are there any other shows you're watching? And you said, I'm watching Abbott Elementary. And I'm like, oh, okay. Before we do the pod, I'll give it a whirl. I fucking loved it. It's so good. I think ABC's done... So part of the reason,

maybe we can help a little bit, but I think ABC has done not the most awesome job getting the word out about this show. I know they premiered it after Jimmy's live show where he did different strokes of facts of life and they gave it good promotion, but it's so hard for a sitcom on networks

to kind of stand out. This is such a cool show. I would describe it as like... I mean, it's so hard for a sitcom on networks to kind of stand out. This is such a cool show. I would describe it as like, I mean, it's clearly there's, it's an homage to The Office in some way, but it's like The Office in a public school, elementary school. But it's got that vibe. It's got all these different characters. It takes me into this world that I kind of want to be into. Why hasn't anybody done this show before? It needed to be done right now. It needed to be done with somebody who understood teaching. So Justin Halpern is one of the EPs on the show. And he just so happens to be a buddy of mine who I've interacted with before. So I sent him a text and I'm like, hey, man, this show is great. I love

this show. I was a teacher for nine years. And I'm like, I can tell watching it that somebody involved in the show was either a teacher for a meaningful amount of time or they grew up in a house where there was a teacher there. And he was like, oh, yeah, Keenta Brunson, who created the show. Her mom was a teacher for 30 or 40 years or whatever it was. And you're like, this makes so much sense because they did such a good job of just pinning down all of the things that teachers wanted to see in a show. All of the things that you like about teaching, they just present them all for you. When I watch it, the show's like a 23-minute long hug from my teacher heart. Because it's just, here's a group of people who care about teaching in a school that is not supported at all. And that's, and that's like the premise of the show. These teachers care.

And every episode, there's like a one small thing that they're trying to do and they have to go through fucking 15 different things to get there. And the pilot, uh, keen to Brunson's character. She just wants a rug for her classroom, a new rug.

That's all she wants. And it takes the whole time for them to get it. But they finally work together and figure out how exactly they're going to get these rugs. And it's just so good and so smart and so funny. It just it's it's a delight to watch. It's my favorite show on TV right now. Well, I'm now on board as well. Let's go, baby.

Great recommendation. I got my wife to watch it already. Let's go, baby. Great recommendation. I got my wife to watch it already. She's like, why didn't we know about this show? It does a really, really, really great job of showing you how thankless the teaching profession is. Well, also showing you how rewarding it can be, which is a really hard balance to find. Obviously, my dad was school system his whole career and ended up as a superintendent for a long time. And he wouldn't watch the show. And he's like, it raises my blood pressure to watch school shows. No, no. Watch this one because it's not one of those where

everything is dark and terrible. It's actually like there's some hope and there's people to root for. And I think it's the good and the bad. And he's like, I'm not watching it. I'm like, I'm telling you, you should watch it. So we were fighting about it. But I really thought not only a worthwhile show, not only a show that should exist, but really well-written, excellent characters.

So good. Two 22-minute episodes. There's eight people in the show that you really have a feel for, including the the janitor who I just it was my favorite character I loved him

when he had to take over the class he just pops in and gives you 2 or 3 quick jokes he's played by William Stanford so you have

Keita Brunson Tyler James Williams who most people know as Chris from Everybody Hates Chris Lisa Ann Walter she plays the Italian teacher

Janelle James who's the principal she's so fucking funny she has a special on Netflix right now chris from everybody hates chris yeah lisa ann walter she plays the italian teacher janelle james who's a principal she's so fucking funny she has a special on netflix right now yeah it's just it's 30 minutes long of her just throwing great jokes out there um cheryl lee ralph is the older teacher that kinta looks up to and then chris perfetti who i've never seen in anything else and he's great in here but yeah just that group every single character in there you just you just want to see more of them as much as you can get uh it's just it's so good it's so good i can't wait to watch it this feels like a show they're gonna get through the first season they'll get a season two pickup and then like halfway through season two when you can watch the whole season one people are gonna find it on hulu or wherever. And then it's just going to blow up and become like this huge thing that it feels like that's

going to happen with the show. And it's going to be around for like eight or nine seasons and everybody. And it's going to be like a big thing is my guess. Check back seven years from now. I think it's going to be huge. No, I think if we're talking about buying stock in a shows. Oh, give me, give me all of it. I'd buy the stock in this. Because one of the cool things about it is, I think there's a word of mouth factor to it. So it's such a likable show.

You want to tell other people about it, right? And one of the things that it does really well, especially with teachers, because, and you think about like some of the teacher movies, and we've done some of them on rewatchables, right? Like Dangerous Minds and things like that. And they're always just diving in for like an hour and a half. And there'll be, you'll have your hero teacher and there'll be a couple other teachers who have been there the whole time that are like kind of

the veterans, they bounce off. But really they can't do that much with the entirety of like the faculty or the entirety of the teachers in either a class or an elementary school, whatever. I like that people are at different stages of their career that we get into. We have the one who's been there for a while. She knows she's not going to be able to change it. This is the job. She's kind of given up hope. You have the idealistic one, the one Keita plays,

where she still feels like, no, no, I can save this. We can get the rug. We can do this. Then you have the substitute teacher come in who isn't even sure he wants to buy into this world yet. And he's like, do I even want to do this? But he's getting sucked in. And then when he's in the nail salon explaining to the mom why she has to have a kid there instead of nine. Yeah. And that's why you become a teacher. He's changing the course of that kid's life. So I think there's lessons like that. I hope they don't do the super serious episodes and

the stuff that we grew up with in the 80s and 90s where it's like every five episodes, we have to learn some lesson. I think it's a smarter show than that, where the lessons can be kind of packed in there in ways that are just kind of higher level smart. One of the things that I really liked that they did is you mentioned they have the two older teachers in there who like know everything already and it and it would have been very easy for them to just be like to just be over it and be like oh this kid is an asshole and like that's where the laugh comes from or something but they don't do that that. They have them, they position them so that they're looking at the stuff

Keen is doing, her character anyway, and watching how energetic and aspirational she is with everything. And they're trying to tell her to just taper it back a little bit. Here's the way that you can care in a meaningful way. Here's the way where you can last a long time.

That's how they approach her. And it's just so well done. You know, the other good thing with a show like this, the cast can evolve as the seasons go, right? You can have, you have like your seven or eight teachers, but you can always bring in a new teacher. You could always get rid of a character who's kind of run their course, you know, and it could just evolve the same way like The Office evolved over the years, right? They kept trying to tinker with, they would have their core people, but they could always bring in new people into that environment and make it more interesting. Imagine how much fun it's going to be when this show has been on for like three seasons, four seasons, and then they bring in the like new substitute teacher. It's just, it's like, it's. It's like a big movie star type.

They just show up for the one episode and do some jokes and get some jokes off and then get out of the way. It's perfect the way that they have it structured and set up. Well, you know, it's so hard to pull out these network 22-minute shows when you're competing against cable and streaming, right? And people who don't have to obey time limits and people who can push the envelope

or you can binge the entire show. And this model of where a show can succeed on network, but then also you can binge it on Hulu or wherever else. It's pretty interesting. We've seen it work a bunch of times with these TV shows, like shows like Manifest, where it's like, it was on NBC. I knew it, People watched it. And then it goes to Netflix and it blows up. Or a show like You that's been on was popular, but then goes to Netflix, it blows up. So this is kind of the best

of both worlds because if you miss four episodes, or in this case, there's only been two, and go on Hulu and watch it. Now you can catch up in time for three. You can DVR it or you can wait to binge it. You can kind of do whatever you want, but it's 22 minutes. It's perfect. Yeah. It's so much fun. I'm just so excited about whatever's coming next. Every time it's over, I'm like, ooh, yeah, let's go. All right. Do you think we've never had this with TV, the educational run? You know how these shows, they cluster? It's like, oh, this detective idea worked. Let's, there's all of a sudden, there's five of them.

You know, like, I wonder if there'll be, this will lead to more kind of school setting type of shows. Cause they're really, how many school shows have there,

there's Boston Public, The White Shadow going way back, 90210. Like, but you know, most of them were like, the school was the framework just to have fun with the kids in the school.

A show about the behind the scenes of a school is pretty rare and usually doesn't work. Yeah. The other one, AP Bio, I think they have four seasons, is another good teacher show. But man, this one is so good. All right. Well, thanks for the recommendation

good to see you you can hear you can hear Shea in the No Skips podcast you can read him on the ringer.com and you can hear him on this week's Rewatchables

I'm not going to talk about how the Spurs swept the Celtics this year I appreciate it alright good to see you later alright that's it for the podcast thanks as always to Kyle Creighton for producing thanks to Shea All right, good to see you. Later. All right, that's it for the podcast.

Thanks, as always, to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Shay. Thanks to Schrags. I will see you again on Sunday night with the Cuz as we break down six playoff games for round one. I cannot wait. See you then. On the wayside I'm a Bruce I never was And I don't have To ever forget