The Bill Simmons Podcast - Kyrie-Isaiah Emergency Trade Podcast (Ep. 250)

Episode Date: August 23, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons assembles all of The Ringer's NBA experts to dissect the decision to trade Kyrie Irving to the Boston Celtics and discuss whether the Cavaliers became better heading into the 2017-18 NBA season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the presenting sponsor of our newly relaunched website, TheRinger.com, the official beer of The Ringer. Now they can send us a beer, please. We're also brought to you by The Rewatchables. We have another one coming this week that we were going to tape right now and it's been pushed back, but we're still taping it tonight it's going to be point break kiana reeves very exciting don't forget about the last episode of talk the thrones

which is coming sunday night right after game of thrones on twitter coming up uh basically everybody who works for the ringers here um on the nba side because we had our giant six-hour nba meeting which we're going to talk about in a second some dramatic nba news happened kairi irving on the boston celtics isaiah thomas not on the boston celtics i don't know what's the first topic but we're going to get a little music here from pearl jam first All right, in my office right now, in no particular order, Kevin O'Connor from The Ringer, Jonathan Charks from The Ringer. I said that right, right?

Charks. Charks. Yeah. I had that mental block. I was saying Jarks, and then you corrected me after I'd known you for like a year. Yeah, well. That's all right. As long as you don't know my name at all, it's okay.

Chris Ryan, the executive editor of The Ringer. Yeah. Shea Serrano, the executive OG of The Ringer. Mark Titus lurking in the background. He might jump in off the top rope at some point. Tate the Snake Frazier with his back to Shea right now. As everyone in the ring universe knows, Tate refuses to give Shea a podcast. Anyway, lots to discuss here.

Bill, you've always loved Kyrie Irving. Well, I will say on my podcast, I have loved this guy. I feel sad though First I was excited that they traded for him We're taping this, it is 8-19 East Coast time 5-19 West Coast time But man, sports is cruel There's just no loyalty in sports

This is the reverse of KD goes from Oklahoma City To Golden State, he's a trader He sold out the fans The flip side of that is sports is a business. That's why he should do that. This is the example for why he should do that. Isaiah Thomas, who becomes a

folk hero in Boston. Every kid under age 15 has his jersey. He has this unbelievable season. He's an MVP candidate last year. He gets hurt. He plays hurt in the playoffs. Has a tragic death of his sister. Pl plays anyway, goes through. We went through an emotional roller coaster ride.

They finally shut him down in round three. Bled South to Green, Kevin O'Connor. Now he's gone. We got to start there, right? That's the biggest thing. From an emotional standpoint, I mean, it's sad in some ways that this guy really finally found a home a city that accepted him a team that really gave him the opportunity that he always seeked but for isaiah thomas his slogan growing up and during the league has always been stay paranoid he's always had a chip on his shoulder and this is just

another one that after having one of the most efficient high volume scoring seasons of all time yeah he still gets dealt and it's really just a fascinating trade um that two conference contenders made this with two of their franchise players. It's really unbelievable. And Chris, KOC and I did this podcast. What was that, 10 days ago? Yeah, maybe just a week. We did the eight realistic Kyrie trades that made sense.

And we talked about this trade. And I said, the reason I don't think this trade will happen is that conference finalists who are competitors and contenders. Don't do this. They never do this. Even though this trade makes the most sense on paper for what we know Cleveland wants, it won't happen. It's not going to happen. It can't happen. We're in this ringer NBA meeting.

I think it was like the five hour mark. Yeah. We did like a three and a half hour session. And then fantasy got the shams alert yeah shams once again coming through real gm doing work yeah and uh all of a sudden we're like whoa we don't know if this is gonna happen or not and now it's moving is is this the most surprising deal we've had this this decade since the hardened trade at least the last five years right i you so rarely like you're saying,

see two teams that are basically rivals. You know what I mean? Like they're, they're conference rivals to the extent that you can have anything like that. Again, trade they're among their best players. And I, you know,

we're sad for Isaiah, but it's not like he's getting traded to the Pacers. Like he gets to play with LeBron James for at least a year. And this Cavs team, I think has a lot more depth than they did for the last finals. It's a pretty good trade for Cleveland, which is as a pure basketball trade. What do you think of it? To me, I love Cleveland because you get Isaiah and Jay.

So there's not a big drama fall from Kyrie. Plus in your back pocket, you get this extra pick. So you get the whole team on next year. You got this pick in your back pocket, like Bagley or Donchess, who knows, right? You can start fresh right away. So my guess is, I think the Celtics evaluated this Brooklyn pick and they looked at the moves that they made this summer Brooklyn's not a disaster I don't I think it's a better roster than they've had the last couple years talk about the Brooklyn roster because I think if you look at this and you think like Indiana's going to probably

stink Atlanta's probably going to stink Orlando's probably going to stink the Knicks might stink it's possible if they trade Carmelo if something weird happens with that if they flip and all those teams have incentive to tank right in a year that could be top heavy whereas the Nets have zero incentive to tank because they don't have their own pick. Who did they add this year? Let's go through the list. D'Angelo Russell they added. Alan Crabb. Alan Crabb.

A couple draft picks. They signed some free agents. They have a solid roster with a good coach, with a good GM, who I think could make changes during the year. They could be a 30-win team. So when we were on Facebook Live, we got a question because I said,

this deal might be more future-win team. So when we were on Facebook Live, we got a question because I said, this deal might be more future-focused for Boston than people think. And the response was, well, then why would they give up the Nets pick? And it's like, well, the Nets pick might not be that great. I mean, it could end up the eighth, ninth, or tenth pick in a draft that, in my opinion, is fairly top-heavy, at least from this point. And we didn't even talk about the Western Conference team. Somebody's got to lose in the West.

It might be Phoenix tanking one more time. It might be New Orleans. Boogie gets hurt. Like, who the hell knows with that? Some mystery team that we haven't figured out. Some underachieving team. We didn't mention the Chicago Bulls. They're going to be terrible, too.

Another team that could tank. So I think the Celtics looked at this like, yeah, take the protections off. We don't feel like this is going to be a top seven pick. Shea. Yes, sir. From a revenge standpoint. I love it. Who is more revengeful here? Kyrie or Isaiah, who just had his heart broken?

Isaiah, 100% more revengeful. Is that the correct word? Vengeful. It's vengeful. Vengeful. Yeah, vengeful. I like revengeful. Don't you love editor Shay?

I have ambassadors in journalism, by the way. Who's more revengeful. Don't you love editor Shay? I have ambassadors in journalism, by the way. Who's more revengeful? I'm going with Isaiah, who's more revengeful. Just because of what KOC was talking about. He is always in that mode. Kyrie has never seemed to me to be in that mode for most of his career. Every once in a while, he'll jump into it. Isaiah exists in it.

You were born into darkness type of situation with it. It's the whole, it's the, you were born into darkness type of situation with Isaiah. You know what I'm saying? Well, what's crazy, just the thought of them, first of all, he recruited Gordon Hayward. Last year, he was recruiting KD. Rudy Gobert retweeted that tweet that he sent out with the shamrock

and the championship trophy. He did that right after he got traded. Rudy Gobert is the best. Oh, man. Ooh did that right after. Oh, he did? He got traded. Oh, he got traded. Oh, man. Wow. Ooh, that's cold.

Oh, man. Love it. That's really the sad power for IT. I mean, he felt he was the franchise. Right. And I can't remember,

I mean, four plus decades of rooting for Boston teams. I can't remember a more popular guy getting traded when he was actually really super popular and people were buying his jerseys. I went to a round two Celtics-Wizards game with my son. We bought him an Isaiah Thomas jersey. I mean, it's by far the most jerseys you go in the store. That's where it was.

And you looked around at the arena and the Isaiah jerseys were there. I'm looking at it. I'm trying to be dispassionate about it because I loved Isaiah and I loved rooting for him. He was a borderline all-star until December last year when he put together three of the best months I've ever seen a player have. He just went to seven other levels. If you look at the season he had historically,

it's one of the top 10 most efficient seasons anyone's had um i think there was durability issues that the celtics were worried about he takes a lot of hits he's small um he got hurt in march never really got back he had the hip thing they're claiming the hip's gonna be all right one year left in his contract that's six million and ksc you think they were really worried about the 120 million dollars i mean wouldn't you be with a 29 year old five foot nine point guard who's super super reliant on his athleticism because like i think with the misconception about athletes in the nba is that you assume they're a dunker but for isaiah to get to finish at the rim the way he does and to draw

fouls the way he does he needs his athleticism his burst to get to the rim to get by defenders and his leaping ability at the rim and if that degrades at all then what does he become as a player in year three of that contract in year four never mind year five when he's 34 years old so if you're the celtics again like that's why i keep coming back to this is a forward-thinking deal granted maybe it helps you now maybe it hurts you now depending on your perspective of what they gave up but i do think that this for them is kind of looking forward um to the year two three two or three years from now so i was gonna say to me with isaiah like so let's say cleveland gets them they lose lebron they reset he's got no most ties to cleveland where is he getting paid he might have lost a lot of money out of this trade like the Brinks truck might not be there for him

that's where it's like man he really got stabbed in the back it's true he could lose a ton of cash from this he might not have gotten an embossed note

but at least he had a chance right because of the emotional stuff but now Cleveland are like whatever bro I think there's a couple teams like I think Chicago

makes a lot of sense for him that's a team that needs somebody it's funny talking this trade just happened we're talking about where could Isaiah go a year from now I mean I think ultimately the most likely option would be lebron if he ends up staying in cleveland then isaiah stays in the land but if he leaves chicago's

right down the street need a face of the franchise they'd have money to spend there's a couple other teams i i think he'll get paid but i think losing the Boston, the emotional connection leverage that he had, that hurts. Is that what this is about for Cleveland? Is it about reshuffling the deck in a way that maybe is more appealing to LeBron James? Because they're a whole issue before, is they were so short-term focused. But now if you're LeBron, you're looking at a roster with a high-end point guard in Isaiah. Granted, he has some of the concerns. He's still an incredible player for what we saw last season.

But now you also have a Nets pick coming in, so a young player on a rookie contract that could potentially contribute as a rookie. Jay Crowder locked up for cheap. Maybe if you're LeBron, you're like, you know what? I'll sign a two-year deal and play another two years in Cleveland. Or a one-year deal. Or just a one-year deal. You would do this if you would get one more year of LeBron James.

I don't know if you get that, though, that's their thinking one thing i was wondering is like will they trade kevin love now that's what i was just gonna ask is this like what does is kevin love now kind of the the number two finally on cleveland i mean even if isaiah is 85 of what he was last year he's still a five foot nine point guard who you have to hide on defense especially in the postseason he's he's somehow somehow cle a five foot nine point guard who you have to hide on defense, especially in the post season. He's he's somehow, somehow Cleveland got worse at point guard defense in this trade, which is almost impossible. He's being backed up by Derrick Rose.

So, and Calderon. So that might be the worst defensive point guard depth chart in the league. But does Kevin love, is he now a trade piece or is he going to be, they're going to say, look, it's been tough. It's hard to share. It's hard to to make a big three work but you're now the guy you're you're that's

why i was gonna ask you isn't this the best possible put your feet in both pools of water trade cleveland could have made like there's they still remained a contender isaiah can replace a lot of kairi's offense jay crowder is another body that can, they can throw, they can play small ball with them, stuff like that. And they have the pick that they could potentially trade if they get some sort of sign from LeBron that he's staying. Yeah. And you have- If they don't think he's staying, you have, now you have the pick. You don't necessarily have to pay Isaiah. You can rebuild and reboot around salary cap space, I guess. And there have been reports today about Wade coming on a buyout.

I suppose there's still... Now you have to talk about if there's a mellow trade that they could make. But here's the thing that kind of bothers me about Cleveland. It's the reason the hair on the back of my neck stands up about all this, is that Kyrie wanted out, and LeBron has spent the entire summer not refuting deafening rumors that he's going to go to LA. So it doesn't sound like anybody wants to be in Cleveland.

There's been no refutation. And I can't imagine that Kevin Love is enamored with his situation either, given the fact that his name has been in trade rumors for most of the time that he's been there. So that pick that they got from Boston becomes incredibly important then because they basically might not have the credibility with all these guys to keep any of them. Or they could flip that pick in February.

Yep. Who the hell knows? Shea, do you think LeBron James, does this trade make him more likely to stay in Cleveland or less likely? He's gone. It feels like he's gone for a while. What I don't understand is, is there a situation where LeBron leaving leads to Isaiah staying in Cleveland?

And being the guy there? And being the guy there. Cleveland embraced me. How could they not in that situation? He showed up. You know he's going to play very, very hard. He's going to go out in the playoffs. It's impossible not to fall in love with him in that situation.

Cleveland can save a lot of face if LeBron decides to leave and they just go all in with Isaiah and say, Isaiah's going to win a championship before LeBron does. We go through that whole scene again. You know what I'm saying? You don't like either of these teams. Who do you root for? If these two teams are playing

and do they play opening night, who are you rooting for? What storyline compels you, a guy who loves NBA but doesn't care about either team? I want for there to just be an earthquake right at the jump ball and everybody twists their ankle.

No, it's easy for me. I mean, I'm a Spurs fan, but it's easy to see this stuff and be interested and find it compelling. I've always been on the LeBron side of things whenever that train is moving. So I'm going to stick with Cleveland in this instance. It's easier for me to grab hold of him than it is to be on Kyrie's side, especially since Kyrie shaved off the beard and he only has a mustache now. And he looks like a bad guy.

He looks way older now. He looks like a bad guy in a breakdancing movie. Quick break to talk about DirecTV. I want to point out that for over 20 years, DirecTV has been the exclusive home for NFL Sunday Ticket, the only way to get every live game every Sunday. I actually tried to figure out how long I've had DirecTV, and it was the first season that when D. Miles and Q. Richardson and that Clippers team.

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Use promo code RINGER at checkout to save 15%. Once again, that is NFLSundayTicket.tv, promo code RINGER. That's a pretty good deal. I've said this on the podcast. I'm going to say it again because I am getting feedback from Boston people, maybe my dad, who is like, we gave up too much. There are people who don't believe in the ceiling of Kyrie Irving. I think I've said this on the pod multiple times.

I think you go into the finals and it becomes 2-1-2 against Curry and Durant. And if Kyrie is one of my two guys, I'm feeling great. If Isaiah was one of my two guys, I felt really good. With Kyrie, I'm feeling great. I've watched him do it. I've watched him have huge games on the road. Charks, Kyrie versus Isaiah, just ceiling. Let's say Isaiah Thomas is an eight-story building.

What is the ceiling for a kairi building i mean kairi's ceiling is probably like 13 14 floors but like floor 9 through 11 is empty right now right now we just said like okay two on two in the finals you got to get to the finals first right like that's the thing like kairi when he gets there is awesome but he's got to get there first and not with LeBron anymore. Why do you think Kyrie wanted to get traded? Do you think it, so here are the theories. One was that the theory I believe over any other theory is that they actually did try to trade him in June. He found out about it.

It was a three or four teamer with Phoenix and Eric Bledsoe, the number four pick. Paul George was involved. I've heard various machinations of it that included in one of them, Cleveland got Paul George, Carmelo and Eric Bledsoe. But I think Kyrie found out about this and was already unhappy anyway and felt like LeBron didn't tell him about it. And that was it. Is there another reason you think he would have wanted to get traded? I mean, I wrote about this before, and I still think it's really the main reason why he wanted to be the man.

I know people have said, well, then why did he have the Spurs on his list? Because they have Kawhi Leonard. And you could say, well, maybe he might have had Boston on his list, too. Why would he want to go there when they have Hayward and Horford? Well, the reason why is because there's no shadow like LeBon james yeah and for kairi no matter where he went he would have been if not the guy that finishes games but at least one of the two guys that they're going to lean on and so for him from a legacy standpoint from a leadership standpoint off the court and on the court he can be more now with the celtics or or had he been treated to any of other other teams on his list whereas with cleveland talk about ceiling there the ceiling

has already been reached with what he could be playing alongside lebron james and you know people will say well why wouldn't he want to stay for after lebron leaves well there were rumors before lebron got there that he wasn't exactly happy in cleveland so for him maybe it was about basketball legacy standpoint but also just the fact that maybe he just didn't like playing in Cleveland. And when you talk about the man, I think that part has been kind of screwed up a little bit, just in the public discourse, the man, people are taking that to mean like he wants his own team, like Stefan Marbury when Stefan Marbury is like, I want my own team. It's not about that to me. I think it's about, he wants to have the ball all the time

and he wants to be the point guard and the decider and the guy, the straw that stirs the drink, so to speak. I don't think it's about being the man. I think it's about I want to be the leader of the team that doesn't stand on the side half the time while LeBron decides where everyone goes and what to do. I want to be the guy who tells Gordon Hayward, go over there.

And I want to tell Jason Tatum. Yeah, you can't even remember who's on the Celtics. That's what the wildest thing about it is that you just have really reconstructed this team on the fly. Not you. Which is scary. But do you agree with my, the man thing, that makes sense, right?

It's not about the man. It's about, he wants to be the decider. Yeah, I think it can be a bunch of different things. And one thing I'm fascinated to see is one of the sort of more enjoyable parts about Kyrie this season is getting to see some of the more eccentric parts of his personality came to light this summer. Yeah. Or this past year. How would that fly in Boston? That was exactly what I was going to ask.

Well, I'll tell you, Isaiah had 100 approval rating in boston is that fair if not 100 is did anybody have a negative it was above 90 you might have had some you know uh blowhards on the radio that hated him but that's about it yeah kairi is definitely a little more interesting. He's the type of guy that the Boston – we know how the Boston media works. They love to create these false arguments and try to sway certain things. They're going to look at this and go, what has Kyrie done? We know what we had with Isaiah Thomas. Kyrie, he's selfish. He wants to be the man. They're going to point to stuff and try to create this narrative that he's selfish.

The team chemistry is not going to be the same. This is a different Celtics team now. I think all that stuff is going to happen. It's already happened. I mean, even before the trade during the season, people were saying Isaiah Thomas is better than Kyrie Irving. Right. So I think in that sense, you're still going to have people that believe that um and people are going to believe that this is a very bad deal for the celtics and maybe it was a bad deal maybe it will we definitely was

maybe we will look back and say that um i don't think it was a bad deal i think it was one of those rare blockbuster trades that was smart for both teams um that's a rare thing to say um with blockbusters like this, but it just makes sense. All you need for Kyrie to do is like his second day in Boston as he's driving around and he just pulls over on a playground and plays one-on-one with a lonely kid.

Like I say, then he's fine. And then drop like 40. Chase Serrano, brand manager. And then drop 40 in the first game of the season and everybody's like, oh yeah, we got a winner here. So let me ask you a question.

Yeah. You'd rather have Kyrie than the following. You'd rather have Kyrie than Paul George. Paul George wasn't happening. Okay. They couldn't lock it down. They didn't want to trade him in the Eastern Conference. I think they would have tried to do this deal anyway.

Even if they had gotten Paul George, I think they would have upgraded to Kyrie. The way Danny thinks is get the blue, blue, blue, blue, blue chippers. All these assets and everything they're trying to build was to try to get to a point where eventually they could have Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Al Horford, and some blue chippers. I don't think that team's that good. So that's a whole different topic. Because now you have a lot of new guys on the same team. You have Kyrie who's never really shown that he can be, you know, oh, let me make sure Gordon Hayward seems unhappy. I'm going to get him some shots. We don't know if he can be the thoughtful point guard that involves everybody.

On the other hand, you got Brad Stevens, the president. How do you see the team mixing? I was just wondering, like, why wouldn't Hayward be that guy? Why is he taking him back to Kyrie? He's got a max contract, right? Why does he want to do that and come there? A couple of years ago, Gordon Hayward took on a little bit more playmaking responsibility with Utah until they kind of redistributed that role.

So maybe with the Celtics, Hayward will kind of transition into more of a playmaking role because one of the points I made Facebook Live when we talked about Kyriei is that what made isaiah so efficient was how good he was off ball yeah and self-excuse him off screens coming out of timeouts he relocated off ball to get himself open when like marcus smart or terry ozear was handling the ball and kairi is going to have to learn how to do that and so if hayward does become more of a ball handler that's what hayward uh what irving is going to have to do. So in that sense, I am curious to see how they do distribute that playmaking, ball handling role for that team. Do you think there was any fear at all with the Celtics that against the really good defensive teams, when the Isaiah thing, they would just send the guy flying out 30 feet from the basket to try to blow up the high screen on him.

And it did seem like the better, smarter defensive teams at least had a strategy. Knock him down. Bang him. Hit him every time he drove to the basket. I really do think they were concerned about his durability in four straight playoff rounds taking that beating. Whereas Kyrie is a magician. He's slicing through. He never gets a shot blocked.

He never gets hit. He never falls down. I do think that was part of it. And with Isaiah, the thing is, he's coming off a major hip injury that has ended the career for some players. So by the way, how do we know this trade is even going to get approved? I mean, maybe they wait. What about the physical for Isaiah? Maybe you waive the medical. Is that possible? I believe you can. I mean, unless it's really alarming. My buddy Hench is panicking about this.

He's like, the physical is going to veto the trade. We're going to be stuck with an unhappy Isaiah. This is a disaster. That would be something else. But I think the last report we had in mid-July, late July, was that Isaiah was doing well and he's fine. Charks, what do we know about Kyrie without LeBron? Because these guys are talking about like, oh, Kyrie is, you know,

you can't get him with a trap like up in the half court. Like he's so good at breaking stuff down. But so much of what I associate Kyrie with is like, is playing with LeBron and LeBron distributing the ball, LeBron drawing attention, drawing that gravity that he draws by having the ball in his hands. What do you think Kyrie's going to look like without that? I think, I mean, the biggest thing is he'll have to change his game a bit,

I think. Now that he's away from LeBron, he has to pass the ball more. He can't just hold the ball and shoot constantly. Don't you think he's going to want to prove that, that he can do that stuff? Or he might be like, I want to be like Westbrook and get like 30 points a night, right? That's a worst- case scenario for Bill Simmons.

Just the words, want to be like Westbrook, send a show down my spine. I'm a great scorer. I'm going to go somewhere where I can be a great scorer. I don't have LeBron here, you know, bothering me.

I'm going to get 25 shots up a night and just get buckets. That might be my mentality if I was him. That's what he's really good at. I mean, Kyrie's going to get buckets. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely going to get a lot of a lot of shots you know one of the points someone made to me like when the rumor first broke was that yeah kairi does want to take on more of a playmaking responsibility because he feels that he's capable of more and just the fact that the past three

years playing with lebron his development was stunted in some ways where lebron was the point guard of that team i mean chris we've talked about this before where like their positions were kind of inverted like kairi was more of the the ford in the sense that he played so much off ball and lebron was the quote-unquote point guard so for not for now maybe with the celtics kairi does become more of that more traditional point guard like isaiah thomas was i gotta be honest i don't think he's ever been in a really well-constructed offense. That Cleveland, the first couple of years, throw that out. He's playing with Mike Brown, all those dudes. And then LeBron comes and it became a very LeBron-centric offense

because LeBron is the third greatest basketball player of all time. You could do that. But when LeBron was out of the game and their offense just kind of became one on five, whoever had the ball got to shoot. I think that's one of the reasons the LeBron on and off the court was was the numbers were so dangerous. I'd love to see how Brad Stevens uses Kyrie. I think they're going to use him very similar to how they used Isaiah.

I think you can run him off screens. You can figure out ways to get him isolated on one side with spacing and things like that. He's going to have better spacing than I think he had on Cleveland. Right. For sure. For sure. Isolated on one side with spacing and things like that. He's going to have better spacing than I think he had on Cleveland, right? For sure. For sure. And I think there will be more opportunities to score efficient open baskets. Granted, he's not playing alongside LeBron.

It's kind of a weird thing to say. But just because of the nature of Boston's system, it will lead to more open opportunities for him. The Boston system does lead to a lot of guards slashing to the hoop, which is Kyrie's thing. I still feel like a cynical Chris Ryan about this trade. I'm cynical on Boston's system does lead to a lot of guards slashing to the hoop, which is Kyrie's thing. I still feel like a cynical Chris Ryan about this trade. I'm cynical on Boston's part. Well, first of all, I just feel like I need to balance it out. I can't let you prosper. Second of all, I don't feel 100% great about this. I don't like it for depth at all,

and I think that that was a problem in the last playoffs, and now it's just a little bit worse. You know what I mean? Because why? I don't know. Horford, who routinely seems to tear a pectoral muscle and aaron baines is that's when you're taking into the playoffs i use every beans shay loves baines you like baines right he'll knock some dudes down dude right there i don't know i i just mark you forgot about the

morris twin the morris twin yeah i just feel like um i'm trying trying to come up with reasons to be skeptical about Boston. Well, I think the number one reason would be the turnover. The turnover. Talking about five new guys in the top eight, basically. And it's also the idea of this being the endpoint of this Danny Ainge project. I know he still has some picks left, and I know that there are still moves to be made. But the idea that this is the big three. Is this it?

This is Horford, Hayward, and Kyrie? I don't think this is it because they still have that Sixers-Kings pick. They still have their own pick for the next five years, and they still have that Memphis pick. They still have one more trade. I think part of the thing, if I played for the Celtics,

I would feel like I'm expendable. If at the moment Danny gets a better trade, I might be out of here. If you're an NBA player, you're expendable. If at the moment Danny gets a better trade, I might be out of here. If you're an NBA player, you're expendable. That's all at this point. But you got to really feel that if you play for the Celtics, right? I mean, Belichick's mastered this for 15 years.

He's made everybody feel like the moment you aren't useful to me, you're gone. But people have somehow bought into that anyway. I was just thinking like with Marcus Smart, they'll be like, hey, Marcus, do you play your role? He's like, I'm afraid to next year. Let me get my shots. Let me get my points, get my assists, right yeah can he can he really sacrifice for the

team they don't think i tried him anyways or he's like let me get my stats you know what that whole comment reminded me of blue apron for some reason i don't know why it's the number one fresh ingredient recipe delivery service in the country for less than 10 hours a meal they deliver seasonal recipes along with pre-portioned ingredients right to your door for less no more more overspending at restaurants or high-end grocery stores at Blue Apron. Prepare memorable meals for yourself in under 40 minutes. Some of the meals available in August. This will be fun because nobody's had dinner yet. You guys might be hungry.

Some of the meals include basil pesto chicken with summer vegetable panzanella, sauteed shrimp and green beans with globe tomato spinach and orzo pasta, miso butter salmon and lo mein noodles with cucumber and charmed tomatoes. How's the salmon scene in Houston, Shay? Not great? I don't know. I don't eat Mexican food. All the foods you're saying right now sound like you're making it up as you're going.

Meatball pizza with fresh mozzarella cheese and charmed tomatoes. You'd eat that. I would eat. I heard pizza, so I'm good on that. House is so much better at groaning and grunting hungrily when, when I do Blue Apron than you are. Right now you can get your first three Blue Apron meals for free with free shipping.

Just go to blueapron.com slash BS Blue Apron, a better way to cook. Do you think one of the reasons the Celtics made this trade is because they thought for this year only, LeBron's last year in Cleveland, we think, maybe, it makes this team worse. Is that one of the reasons? It makes Cleveland

worse? It makes Cleveland worse. They went from Kyrie to Isaiah. Jay Crowder's a seventh man for them. The pick, they probably won't have the balls to trade before the deadline not knowing if LeBron's staying or not. And going into round three, Kyrie's probably a slightly safer bet than Isaiah.

Is that one of the reasons they made the pick? I'm sure. Because they have to be Cleveland. The one thing I have bought into in the Church of Danny is this idea of having stuff exist in multiple timelines. So that this idea that he's doing stuff in the present while also planning for the future i i buy that i don't think the creators of lost i do agree with you that what did you say the creators of lost i do think that this is a very uh aggressive move towards harmony and that brad's offense does depend on um on people sharing the ball and on guys buying into a certain system.

And like Charks is saying, man, it's just like this could really disrupt that. And you bring a guy in who's a gunner. Kyrie's a gunner. He's a gunner. Are we 100% sure he's a gunner? Yes. Okay.

Yes. Mark Titus is here. Your gut reaction to Celtics going from Isaiah Thomas to Kyrie Irving just as somebody who likes watching basketball? As someone who likes watching basketball, I enjoy this for the Cavs. I think this is good for the Cavs. But that's also because I'm excited about what this pick might mean. I'm buying into the idea that they're going to get someone good.

Because the Cavs, LeBron's leaving. I think like all of Ohio, as an Ohioan. Yeah, you're living in Ohio right now. We're prepared for LeBron to leave. And I think knowing that Kyrie wanted out, it was like, well, there goes the Cavs. They're nonexistent now. That's like, is anyone ever going to care about the Cavs again? And maybe they will now.

Maybe like Isaiah sticks around. Maybe you can get. You luck out with the pick. Yeah, you luck out with the pick. Could the Cavs win one more lottery? will now. Maybe like Isaiah sticks around, maybe you can get... You luck out with the pick. Yeah, you luck out with the pick. Can the Cavs win one more lottery? What if they go to the fifth lottery? Yeah. But I'm excited.

I'm a bandwagon Celtics fan now. One, because I'm sitting in front of you and I work for you. That was nice. That's very nice. That's kind of something I need to say. But also, yeah, you got Hayward now and Stevens. Well, Hayward's your dude. Hayward's my guy. We talked about that before my question you get credit for that because you called i think it was men you were like hayward

loves brad stevens these guys are boys yeah yeah um so is this is this like is or the is this the team for the celtic because i always worry about like brad stevens because i i love him to death and everyone says like he's this great coach and all that. And it's always like, just give it time, just give it time, just give it time. So as NBA people, is this the time now? Or are we still giving him more time? Are we sure he's good? Are we sure he's good?

Stop it, Chris Ryan. If he, say they don't make the East Finals because there's chemistry issues with all these young guys and Kyrie and they're just trying to figure it out. Stevens is still good, right? Right. So here's the team. You tell me if you like it.

Cause I think they're going to start Jalen Brown at the two. So you're looking at Kyrie, Jalen Brown, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Morris, Al Horford. I think Bane starts over Morris. Maybe, maybe, maybe Morris finishes games I think Baines starts over Morris. Maybe Morris finishes games,

but Baines starts. Do you have inside info on this? I just think Horford wants to be a four. He doesn't think he's a center. It makes sense. I can see that. You're just playing pretend like, hey, you're a power forward, Al. But then at the end of games, you're putting him at the five.

Baines becomes this year's Amir Johnson the token starter for four minutes yeah a waste of time starting games with a traditional five when really just Horford should be starting at the five I'm gonna ignore that point

um let's say Marcus Morris I can't imagine Baines starting for my NBA finalist team uh well and then coming off the bench

Tatum Marcus Smart Rogier Baines, Yabasele maybe? Who would be the 10th man? Could get lucky with somebody. Did you say Ojale?

Ojale? Yeah, maybe. One of those guys. Maybe some buyout guy, whatever. It's definitely a better team than last year, I would say. It's definitely a team that's going to score more. Like realistically. They couldn't even come

close to being in Cleveland last year. How close are they to being in Cleveland now? Like, realistically. They are now a Kyrie Irving whipping his dick out versus LeBron whipping his dick out dick measuring match away from beating. This is a great appropriate conversation.

LeBron's a lot bigger than Kyrie, so realistically. Well, and LeBron's a lot bigger than Kyrie, so realistically. Well, and LeBron's year 15. Who the hell knows with that? But you talked about the Celtics being a little uneasy, Chris Ryan. How about Kevin Lev, who just got dragged through the mud all summer and traded to every single team in the league seven

times, and then Kyrie basically said, get me out of here. You tried to trade me. I don't trust you anymore. This is the opportunity for the reset. They can either reset that that or trade him but i don't think you can let him dangle anymore because you're just going to actually hurt your team the calves the calves do need him now well they have him under contract that's yeah i know that but i'm saying like committing to him yeah i think that like if you they've got a new gm there i think pretty soon the most interesting thing that's going to happen in the next couple of months of the nba is the first lebron press conference or the first lebron public comments because he is

not going to be able to it's not going to be able to be business as usual everything will take care of itself i'm obviously home i want to stay his departure has become the most important storyline in the nba well his silence has been probably the most important storyline of the summer first time he's at he's going to avail himself to the press and they're going to say, what do you think of this trade? What do you think of the way Kyrie exited the team? And what are you going to do next

year? And if he says, I don't know, that just changes the entire dynamic of the team. I think Kevin Love, if he said right now, I want to be next, please trade me now. I don't know what Cleveland does under that scenario. It would be a really interesting power play by him.

You guys, you traded for me three years ago. First year I became the scapegoat basically sec uh because i was hurt which wasn't my fault i guess scapegoat's the wrong word but yeah you know he's one of the he got hurt he was out second year he was becoming the scapegoat for most of that year but then they rallied back they win the title then last year it was the same thing and uh we got to get better and then they try to shop them i would get tired of it after three years right kevin yeah can i play devil's advocate for a second kevin love like him and isaiah thomas played aau basketball together and they've been friends for a really long time so maybe maybe there's more synergy in that locker room having isaiah in there

um maybe maybe maybe this improves team chemistry and that can't be um overlooked um from the from that perspective. So maybe Kevin Love is happier playing alongside Isaiah Thomas. I'm just speculating here. Kevin Love is happier every offense in the NBA. The other 29 offenses, because if Kevin Love and Isaiah are on the court, it would be the worst version of the Kyrie thing. Titus, talk about the AAU connection.

This is something you're very passionate about. Just AAU in general? Just the players. So Kevin Love and Isaiah playaiah play you together explain to us what that means like oh yeah they're friends but what does that actually mean aau is where i mean just in my experience is where guys build their like obviously college teams you can do that too but uh like in the case of kevin love who was one and done maybe not not as much maybe he's not as tight tight with Russell Westbrook and stuff. But most guys, their AAU team is like their pinnacle of basketball. And maybe it's a little skewed because I was on a pretty good AAU team.

Yeah, just say for the listeners, say who was on your team. I love doing this. This will never get old of me. It's great. I mean, it's always. This will never get old of me to do it. Mike Conley, point guard. Eric Gordon, shooting guard.

Daquan Cook, small forward. Josh McRoberts power forward Greg Oden center Greg Oden when he was moving around young Patrick Ewing

and then you were like the Dan Waiters of this team what were you? I was uh you know we could say that yeah

were you the Josh McRoberts of this team? I was honestly the zone buster I would like Greg would dunk all over everyone

they'd go 2-3 zone and they'd check me in. And the other coaches would yell, the white guy's in. He's a shooter. I swear to God, that happened all the time. The white guy could shoot it. That would be my role. But yeah, all the guys that I played with through AAU,

those are the, you know, Mike Conley, he's still, his best friends are the guys that are on that AAU team. Not necessarily the guys he went to high school with. This helps your case case. Not necessarily the guys he played college with. It's like all the guys from that AAU team, he still keeps in his circle. And I'm certainly that way. Like I get excited.

I think back on like my high school quote unquote career. And I, you know, I'm more excited about my AAU teammates than guys I went to high school with. And Jay Crowder, great teammate. The only time he cannot be a great teammate is if he's feels like he's been let down by the team or like if his name was in trade rumors things like that motivated i'm here for the year i'm gonna shove it up boston's butt jay crowder is a good teammate to have the one thing i i feel like i've been negative about

celtics chemistry problems the first time leBron does an Instagram subtweet of Isaiah, and he's like, stop coming up short. Isaiah is not going to have that. That's not going to work. Isaiah is not a dude who really- Isaiah will fight him and lose, but he will fight him. He's not going to silently be in a Banana Republic ad. He's going to be pretty annoyed at that.

And I think he's going to make his feelings known. It will be an interesting test of LeBron's ability to control that team, especially if he's basically a lame duck. You know, it's so funny. I mean, that brings us to our sponsored segment. Captain Morgan's make-believe riverboat casino.

I borrowed it from Cousin Sal this week. Each week on Cousin Sal's podcast, Against All Odds, him and the degenerate trifecta set sail and tackle make believe gambling propositions related to sports and pop culture events well we

grabbed the yacht this week and here's the make believe prop for this week and it's not even make believe because it's going to happen what is LeBron going to do to Kyrie Irving social media wise in the passive aggressive LeBron way? What is his move going to be?

Is it going to be either a passive aggressive tweet or Instagram post, which I'm making a minus 150 odds, or he goes the other way. He zigs and does the thanks to Kyrie Irving. You're a great teammate. Love you, brother. the thanks to Kyrie Irving, your great teammate. Love you, brother, tweet. I'm going to make that plus 125. Does LeBron go passive-aggressive negative, or does he go positive, looking forward, thanks for everything,

Shay, you go first? I'm going passive-aggressive. We just have a history of LeBron doing that exact thing. So predict the post for me. He will be sitting in the car, shirtless, listening to a song of some sort. Okay. I'm guessing Sea Murder, down for my guys.

And it's just going to be perfect. That's what he's going to do. I guarantee you that's what he will do. Okay, so you're going heavy on minus 150 I just moved the lineup to minus 170 after Shea's compelling craze Chris Ryan going passive aggressive or friendly

thankful great teammate thanks for everything I'm going passive aggressive shading aggressive shading aggressive wow I didn't even have eyes for that this is going to piss him off people rarely reject LeBron. LeBron rejects people. Right.

So this is a new test of a guy being like, you took me to three straight finals and I don't want to do that anymore with you. That's pretty wild. Sharks?

See, I think he goes positive and then he waits for the conference finals. Then he has Kyrie on the other team. He goes screen and roll. Scores every single time. Then he's like, careful what you wish for, bro.

He waits positive now, negative later. Titus? I think he's going to ignore. Maybe I'm just saying this to offer a contrarian opinion, but maybe he just completely ignores Kyrie and focuses on Isaiah, and he uses some sort of pun with the letters IT, like now we have it or something. That's good.

That's a good third eye. Now we got, I don't know, something along those lines. So I'll make that like plus 200. Yeah, that's my guess. That he just completely ignores Kyrie, but just pumps up Isaiah. But he does it in a secretive, like you won't just flat out say, like I'm excited to have Isaiah. It's got to be like some sort of coded.

It's always coded with LeBron. Yeah, it'll be nothing over the top. At least I know you know the earth is round or some sort of. By the way, I saw on Twitter, shout out to Justin Spears. I think it's the guy's name. Best joke he said. It's hilarious how Kyrie is going to play in a city where their newspaper is called The Globe. It's a great joke.

I got to give a shout out to that guy. Yeah, that's a good joke. KFC, what do you think? Going positive because LeBron's all about shaping narrative, and he's going to try to make himself look like the bigger man hair. How do you do that? Come out positive and say, Thank you, Kyrie, for everything you've done.

I just enjoy playing with you. Something just extremely positive from LeBron. I am also doubling down on that. I think he goes positive. Sorry, Shad, disagree. I think he gives a SportsCenter interview about four weeks from now with Rachel Nichols when he talks about he's really hurt

and he wished they could have talked it out. Those guys went through wars together. They won a title. And then he drops the passive-aggressive hammer in the conference finals. That's when I think he brings the table. It might even happen on opening night. Since it's an emergency pod, is it okay if I just throw another wrinkle of breaking news in there?

Can you hold on one second? Yeah, sure. Because that was another week of Captain Morgan's make-believe riverboat casino. No matter how you live like a captain, Captain Morgan reminds you to please drink responsibly. Captain's orders, thanks to Sal and the crew from Against All Odds for letting us use that gimmick for this week. What's the breaking news? It's that Andrew Wiggins has cut ties with Billy Duffy while having a max extension on the table. Wow.

Whoa. Yeah. I don't know if that means anything. Maybe he just wants a different agent. Maybe he's like, you got me what I wanted, but that's a, it's a wrinkle. Well, that goes to. I'm coming home. Bring out your Wiggins jerseys out of the closet.

Well, that we talked to, we had this giant ringer meeting today. And one of the topics was, why does anybody who's going to get a max contract want to give 4% of that to an agent? If you're getting it anyway, just use a lawyer and have had them cut a thing, why don't you give 4% of that to an agent if you're getting it anyway? Just use a lawyer and have them cut a thing. I don't understand that. Who is favorite to win the East right now?

Cleveland. Cleveland, for sure. Cleveland, for sure. The team with LeBron. Not for sure. I say for sure. But they're definitely the favorites, though. Overwhelming favorites in my book.

Who is going to be on this Cleveland team in March that is not on this team now, Kevin O'Connor? Probably one of those back-end pieces. I think the core remains intact. Maybe an Iman Shumpert. I know that's a boring answer, but I wouldn't expect them to trade Kevin Love. D. Wade?

Who would be on the team? Yeah, D. Wade, for sure. Yeah, D. Wade. I think D. Wade be on the team? Yeah, D Wade, for sure. Yeah, D Wade. I think D Wade's on this team. That's awesome. Here's my question. Why are the Bulls buying him out? Ultimately, sports is a business, right?

You owe Dwayne Wade $25 million. Don't you just have a staring contest with him? I think that whenever you ask Gar Forman a question, it turns into a staring contest. So he's like, why do the Bulls do anything that they do? I just don't understand. D-Wade opted into the second year, and then it's like, you guys got to buy me out.

It's like, well, we're paying you to play basketball for us, so how about you just play basketball for us and just kind of stare it out? All right, so you put Dwayne Wade on this team, Isaiah Thomas, Dwayne Wade, Jay Crowder, Kevin Love, LeBron James. The crunch time? That's a weird team. You want Tristan out there or Kevin Love out there?

All right, so Kevin Love's now on the bench? I don't know. Tristan Thompson, LeBron James, Jay Crowder, Dwayne Wade, Isaiah Thomas. That's a possible finals crunch time team. It's just weird. They're getting blown out. Yeah, that's – The one thing that this is abundantly clear is that congratulations to the Golden State Warriors and all their supporters.

Who's better equipped to beat the Warriors? Cleveland or Boston, though? I mean, what's the difference? Neither? Yeah. I mean, well, Golden State had incredible health last year. So I guess it's a pretty sad case. But the case would be, I really hope these guys don't have incredible health again. And if they don't, we're right there. I feel like Cleveland was probably closer last year than maybe people gave them credit for.

Like the Warriors had, it was a revenge year. Shea wrote about that for the ringer in June. Great revenge season for them coming off the 1-3-1. They were one missed shot away from being 2-2 in the series. Right. If Durant missed that three. Right. 2-2.

Right. You had that you had everyone in the words is super duper healthy and uh cleveland had just won the title now they're a little more motivated i don't know i i i know the pick's great but i just would have i would have i would have not done this if I was Cleveland. So you'd rather have Kyrie than Isaiah and Jay right now? If you're Cleveland? So if I knew I could turn that pick into something this season, I would rather have the trade they got.

But the problem is what we talked about earlier. If they don't have any sign from LeBron either way, and now they have this pick, and it's just kind of dangling like a Money in the Bank match where it's just over the ring, and they don't know if they can get it or not, I think they're a little worse. If I'm the Warriors, I would rather go against Isaiah Thomas and Jay Crowder than Kyrie. They couldn't guard Kyrie.

They couldn't guard him for three straight finals. I mean, it's hard to know if they're going to be better or worse. I think if you're Cleveland, what you're hoping is you get the Jay Crowder of two years ago. If you get the Jay Crowder from last year for Boston when his defense really wasn't that good, then you're disappointed. But if you get the Jay Crowder who was first acquired by the Celtics, who's a terrific defender for them to close out that season then you're better equipped to win a final series against the warriors i mean because you have a bunch of versatile forwards who can switch defend multiple positions and crowder really does fit that mold for them and add in add in his

ability to spot up and space the floor so that helps um but at the same time like there's certainly more risk but that's along the same lines what daryl morey said before right you need to elevate your risk profile and maybe in some ways that's what's happening with cleveland they're making a huge change that maybe increases the chances lebron stays um and it maybe gives them more potential in a final series if isaiah thomas is healthy um at that point in the season, which he might be, might not be. I just want to point out my dad has volunteered to drive Jay Crowder to the airport. Take that for what you will.

But I think he had, he's a good solid tank. He tried hard, but I think he had seen enough Jay Crowder contested threes with 10 seconds left on the shot clock. It's probably done at that point. I feel, just in closing, because we're going to wrap it up, I feel the Isaiah thing's tough. It's a hard one. I would be so much more excited about getting Kyrie Irving if it wasn't for the guy that we just went through this journey with

of you stealing from Phoenix for what ended up being the 20th pick in the draft. And he right becomes an all-star. Then he becomes really a top 12, 13, 14 performer in the league last year and then it's just all right thanks we got kairi every now see you later it's it's harsh man sports is harsh sometimes it's i think it's cool number one that you've got they were both drafted

in the same year right 2011 first pick last year that's a cool a cool thing i also think we've not talked about this yet but if lebron decides he's in he's probably the best guy in the league at just like gassing players up like he will get in your ear and really make they traded you they gave up on you they'll do all that he turned matthew delvedova into like a legit finals piece yeah that is crazy he was i can't believe that yeah. Yeah, he really did. Trip him, get him. If he is that LeBron in Isaiah's ear and Crowder's ear, like that's a scary team all of a sudden

if he's got them all playing two levels higher than they should be playing. Do you hold this against LeBron at all that this Kyrie thing didn't work out? Who do you blame ultimately, Chris Ryan? I think it was just Kyrie wanted to go off and do his own thing. You don't think LeBron could have managed it better i think that there's like another element to this the fact that david griffin has been so positive about kairi and the

aftermath of this stuff i think there's probably schisms inside the franchise the fact that lebron has been so openly rumored to go to la and it's like nobody has refuted it it just seems like there's just like a lot of problems there so I don't really blame anyone. I just think that for as much as we don't know about what Kyrie's going to look like without LeBron, I'm really excited to see Isaiah with LeBron. And I'm really excited to see Jay Crowder with LeBron.

I kind of feel like this gives the season itself a little bit of extra Tabasco now because I'm like, ooh, now the Eastern Conference is a little bit like you've got this revengeful aspect to it. We also get to see LeBron play with some different players, and it had been kind of like, let's run it back,

the same crowd, have a kind of, like, mid-season meltdown, then everybody gets back together, we run through the East, play the Warriors. I'm glad that there's going to be a little bit of variance this year. I can't believe how many teammates and different nucleuses LeBron has had over the course of a 15-year career. I mean, it almost feels like a TV show where he's Noah Wiley on ER for 15 years and everyone else in the show has changed.

He's obviously way better than Noah Wiley. But I can't remember a bigger trade between two contenders. I said when we did the podcast a couple weeks ago, I was saying how Paul Westfall and Dennis Johnson were traded for each other in 1980. I was like, whoa, these two teams are trying to beat each other. They just swapped their guards. This just doesn't happen. Jarks, Chris said this put a little extra Tabasco in the season

didn't this season have enough Tabasco already I feel like we have a Tabasco overload can we freeze some I don't know I still feel like it's Warriors Cavs I still feel like there's X I feel like for all the noise that's happened I still say Warriors is the best team

Cavs is the best in the east Salt's the number two in the east for all the chairs that have moved feels like the same kind of thing. Titus, you more excited for Kyrie versus LeBron in a Cavs-Celtics game, or is Westbrook-Durant still the game? I'm with Sharks. Ultimately, what does this matter? The Warriors are going to win it anyway.

I mean, it matters because I'm excited to watch the Eastern Conference Finals. But if I'm going to stay on brand because I work for the ringer, I'm going to say the Warriors are the white walkers and everyone's fighting and like let let let let the celtics and the calves fight for the throne because the white walkers are going to destroy everybody anyway no stay on your brand what wwe storyline did this whole thing remind you of oh my god um there's shades of about 15 different, somebody drop kick somebody else in the middle of the room. The one like act of betrayal that like is still fresh in my mind was the

shield breaking up because also cause it happened in Indianapolis and I'll never forget that. And this, this feels like maybe the Cleveland big three was the shield and Kyrie was Seth Rollins and just took the chair. And Kevin Love is definitely Dean Ambrose. Kevin Love is Dean Ambrose. And Kyrie just took the chair to the back and you're just like, wait a second.

Why would you break this up? Do you think Kyrie did the chair to LeBron's back? I think so. As a great athlete myself who rose to prominence playing basketball, I don't understand how you get to the point where you're playing with arguably the greatest player of all time, certainly the greatest player of this generation. You're going to the finals every year. People know you in part because he would have...

You get to live in Cleveland. You get to live in Cleveland. You would have been a star anyway, but obviously before LeBron showed up, he was just this guy on the Cavs, and now he's something. He's hitting game-winning shots. He's like a legend in Cleveland. So many guys, that's why you play basketball is to be in that position.

You spend your entire life trying to get in that position, and then you get a guy who's in that position who's like, actually, I don't really want this. He's not wrong. But he won a ring now, at least. Yeah, it's not wrong to feel that way, I guess. But I guess I put it this way. If Kevin McHale in 1987 was like, I've kind of done it already.

I kind of am sick of living under Larry's shadow. I would have driven to his house. Right. Wouldn't that have been insane? How dare you? Isn't that insane? You're like, what are you doing? You have the thing already set up.

Everyone's there. And if he was just like, yeah, I just sort of want to do my own thing. Wouldn't you just be like, this is out of his mind? if that's an indictment on lebron or if it's indictment on just where we are in sports in 2017 because like in the mid 80s everyone would have wanted to just play with larry bird and magic johnson if you're on their team you were staying on their team and now 30 years later i don't know if the dynamics of the league has changed chris why is this different than namar in bar Chris, why is this different than Neymar in Barcelona? Why is it different?

Yeah. Well, the Neymar thing that's been so fascinating is that he actively chose, like, you have to understand, like, he's choosing to play on, like, the amateur level of FIFA, not, like, in the game itself, like in the video game. Like, when you watch Neymar play in France now, like, he just is dominating people. It would be like if Kyrie was playing against me. But in Spain, he was playing on the best team

and one of the best teams in the world against Real Madrid a couple of times a year with a higher level of competition. And now it's like pretty much the only games that are going to matter for PSG this year are in the Champions League. That's like the shortest version of it that I can think of. So that would have been like if Kyrie had went to the Knicks.

Yeah. And all of a sudden it's just completely less meaningful i wanted to ask you a question because we got this on the facebook thing and i think it's i keep thinking about it is that um if you see danny trade isaiah after the season he's had um like and we kind of talked about this at the beginning of the podcast but like can you really blame another player who's just like i want to go where i want to go and i want to go... No, that's how we started this podcast. I think there's no loyalty in sports anymore. Yeah, and I don't think that there should be, but it changes slightly.

I'm just like, if you do this to a guy like Isaiah after what he just did, it's kind of hard for me to get too worked up about the next time Boston loses a guy in free agency. It's just like, well, you reap what you sow. Kevin, Danny took so reap what you sow. Kevin, Danny took so much heat this summer.

Didn't land anyone. They don't get Paul George or Jimmy Butler. What are we doing with all these picks? What are we doing with those assets? What the hell, Danny? We're moving backwards. What are we doing? We're just keep treading water for the future. Make a move. Then he gets Gordon Hayward. Then he gets Kyrie Irving.

Now people in Boston who love to meet people of star shit will be like, Danny Angel will trade anybody. The dude's got no loyalty. He can't win. That's my point, right? He can't win, especially in the Boston market. I think Danny Angel, I mean, I was beating that trade down drum for whoever won the lottery. I mean, I wrote about it at the time.

And I thought the Celtics had a good case to trade down, and they did. Well, you love Tatum more than most. Yeah. You would rather have Kyrie than Fultz and Isaiah? Like Fultz backing Isaiah up or Fultz? Yeah, I'd rather just have Tatum in that Lakers pick than just Fultz. I would, too. You get two swings at versus one.

And plus, adding that pick might have made the Nets pick a little bit more expendable from the Celtics standpoint. So I don't think Ainge can win either way. I think either way, people would be angry about the deals he makes or the deals that he doesn't make. But I think he had a hell of a summer leading up to now. And now at this point, this is really the most risky decision he's made in recent years. More than any other trade or non-trade.

This could go down. This is a pivotal moment for the Boston Celtics. It could go either way for them. All right, Chris has some mailbag questions for us. But first, let's talk about a perfect mattress that sold directly to consumers. Let's talk about an obsessively engineered mattress at a shockingly fair price. Let's talk about supportive memory foams that create an award-winning sleep surface with just the right sink, just the right bounce. Let's talk about Casper mattresses.

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Find out why so many people love Casper. Get $50 toward any mattress purchase by visiting www.casper.com. Use offer code BS. Terms and conditions apply. Again, that is casper.com. Slash BS and code BS. The first question we had was actually from Jerry Pereira, and he wants to know what the, we kind of talked about this a little bit, but what the closing lineup for the Cavs is going to be.

IT, JR, Crowder, LeBron, Love for the last few minutes, or you put Tristan in there? I mean, if you have Love and Isaiah and JR, man, you're basically just saying we have to outscore you, and that's it. I think Tristan would have to be in there. All right, Richie wants to know what would be the best trade target now that Cleveland has that next pick. So basically, what would they flip that for? So you'd have to – Channing Frye's expiring, $7.5 million.

How about Boogie? Shumpert for $10. Boogie, if he's unhappy around the trade deadline. Oh, interesting. And then let's say the Nets pick is around $10, not $1. I'm just throwing that out there so it'd be like Channing Frye Shumpert and that Nets pick for Boogie and Jetty Osmond or Thompson what about Thompson that number one pick for Boogie that could make some sense that's a lot I mean I don't know if

I don't know if New Orleans would even deal but if nor if something were to happen there because that's what you would need to happen. Right now, there's not another superstar available. Charks, anybody, any other targets? To me, I would want to go more with like, let's grab more wings to guard the Warriors. I want to do like Kevin Love for like Aminu and Harkless, something like that. Like less LeBron and a bunch of wings who play defense.

I think it's more realistic than LeBron, Love, and like offense and more stars. Okay. That's pretty much it. That's it? Yeah. We hit a lot of them. We hit a lot of them. We hit a lot of them.

Mostly we just wanted to get to Jerry Ferreira. How did Cleveland get a haul from Ainge while Indiana got a couple of bad contracts for PG-13? Is Kyrie that much more valuable? Because Indiana's... There needs to be an investigation for that trade. Titus, this could really hurt the Pacers in Indiana. Shea, would you trade would you trade

LaMarcus Aldridge for Kevin Love I'd trade LaMarcus Aldridge for Kevin Arnold nice nice alright let's end there

thanks to SeatGeek thanks to Miller Lite thanks to all of these dudes Shay Serrano Chris Ryan Jonathan Charks Mark Titus Kevin O'Connor thanks to T of these dudes Shay Serrano, Chris Ryan, Jonathan Charks Mark Titus, Kevin O'Connor

thanks to Tate Frazier Shaden and Taki during the podcast nah most of all thanks to Isaiah Thomas because he was an awesome Celtics thanks to Jake Crowder too but especially Isaiah Thomas awesome Celtic last year I loved it

it's tough man, sports is brutal sometimes but fascinating trade I do think the Celtics are a little bit better I think their ceiling is a little bit higher Loved it. It's tough, man. Sports is brutal sometimes. But fascinating trade. I do think the Celtics are a little bit better. I think their ceiling is a little bit higher. So anyway, we have a Kevin Durant podcast we're taping tomorrow. Thanks for everybody who sent mailbag questions. Got a ton of them.

And if you want to send some last-minute ones, it's themailbag at theringer.com. So send those. We're taping tomorrow night. And I wonder if this trade will come up. I wonder if it'll come up that there was a massive, massive NBA trade. Until then, thanks for listening. Thanks to everybody. I don't have feelings within On the wayside

I'm a person never once in I don't have feelings within