The Bill Simmons Podcast - Lakers Panic and NBA Playoff Overreactions With Joe House, Plus Triple H on the WWE’s Crazy 2020

Episode Date: August 19, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House fresh off of the Lakers' Round 1 loss to the Trail Blazers. They also discuss Bucks-Magic, Celtics-76ers, Heat-Pacers, Rockets-Thunder, Game 2 gambling odds, and more (1:55). Then Bill is joined by WWE legend turned executive, "The King of Kings" Triple H to discuss how the WWE adapted to the COVID-19 pandemic so quickly, the impact fans have on pro wrestling, unveiling 'WWE ThunderDome,' working closely with Vince McMahon, searching for the next WWE superstars, and more (52:54). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tonight's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by Spotify, where you should be listening to your podcasts because you can change the speeds. You can zoom through an awesomely curated library. You can go check out the charts and find out the hottest new podcast, biggest podcast podcast separated by genre. So there you go. I don't know what else to tell you. Spotify, best podcast experience you can have. Speaking of Spotify, the Ringer Podcast Network, which is part of the Spotify family, we launched 10 questions with Kyle Brandt last week, as well as sound only two new podcasts. watchables did Caddyshack, um, on Monday, me and Sean fantasy 40 year anniversary. So if you missed that, go check that out. We have another rewatch of what's coming on Wednesday night where, uh, it's a movie. It's the first time this ever happened. We could not find the movie streaming

anywhere. That's all I'm going to say. We somehow found it. Um, and we'll have the whole story about that on Wednesday nights podcast. So, um, there you go coming up. We're going to talk to, uh, Joe house late night after a dramatic Lakers lost to Portland talking about the first 48 hours. We were calling it, uh, the bubble overreactions because we're ready to overreact left and right to everything we saw in there. And then, uh, triple H yeah. One of the most famous WWE performers of the last 30 years. He's coming on as well to talk about what's going on with their business during the pandemic and a whole bunch of other things.

First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. We're taping this super late on Tuesday night. We're waiting for the end of the Lakers-Blazers game. We were assuming we might have something to talk about after that game. House, an amazing two days, eight basketball games, game. We were assuming we might have something to talk about after that game house in amazing two days, eight basketball games, one after the other all day here on the West coast, starting at like a 10 30, 11 o'clock, six of the games were really good. And then it

culminated with an, Oh, Oh, the blazers take a one-nothing lead over the Lakers. Oh my God. How's? I'm dying to overreact. I cannot wait to overreact to the past two days of basketball. Yeah, whatever we do, let's not overreact and have, oh no, no, let's totally overreact. Let's do this. I'm dying to overreact, baby.

Um, all right, let's start with the blazers. Cause that just happened. So you and I both like the Lakers in this series, the blazers won us a lot of money in the bubble. We love them. I watched every blazers game. I still love them. I still love them. And it was weird rooting against them. It was like rooting against an ex girlfriend, but that's right.

We just thought they have no answer for LeBron. They have no answer for date for Davis. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. They have five guys. It was like rooting against an ex-girlfriend. That's right. We just thought they have no answer for LeBron. They have no answer for Davis. They have five guys.

It's okay. It's not going to happen. And then you watch the game. The big guys that Portland has were actually like a pretty nice matchup against the Lakers. They were able to play Whiteside and Nurkic at the same time in a couple stretches. And I don't know. They were able to play Whiteside and Nurkic at the same time in a couple stretches. And I don't know, they, they defended LeBron. Okay. They, whatever was going on with Davis, I didn't fully understand it. He didn't really look like himself until the second

half, but all of their weaknesses never really fermented and got used against him. The pace was slower. The points were, you know, headed toward the nineties. I think it ended up like 193, something like that. But at the more I watched, I was like, the Lakers actually might be in trouble here. What did you think? No.

So, um, you, you just hit on, on like three of the four key points. The pace was a Lakers pace. The style of play was a Laker style of play. The,

they, they had the matchups that they wanted in place. The key component, you mentioned it, was Anthony Davis. Where was Anthony Davis? Why is he catching the ball outside the three-point line and holding it for one beat, for two beat? Now a dribble, now a pass. He looked lost.

Had they not run an offense with Anthony Davis catching the ball and initiating from the perimeter, it looked like it was a first-time experiment tonight. Put him down in the post and let him do his work. I love it with LeBron. That's the whole effing point

of those two together. Well, here's the thing. They look bad in the bubble for them offensively. They sure did. Milwaukee also didn't look like the same Milwaukee we saw in the regular season. And you're like, oh, when the playoff starts, they'll get going. But the playoff starts, you're in a bubble. You don't have the fans.

You're not getting the lift from being at home, all the advantages you get as the top seed. And they had all the same problems tonight that we worried about. I didn't worry about, I was embracing it because I hate the Lakers, but you look at like Caldwell Pope, 29 minutes, 0 for 9. Caruso, who they desperately need without Rondo and Bradley, 29 minutes, 1 for 6.anne waiters who look promising. The bubbles plays one minute. Um, and then Davis, as you mentioned was eight for 24. Now, I think one of the reasons, and one of the reasons we liked the Lakers so much before the pandemic was they were so big,

they had so much size, they could overpower teams, all that stuff. Well, guess what? They, they couldn't really overpower this Blazers team that had some big dudes from a rebounding standpoint. It was, they were plus five, but you know, Davis and LeBron had to win around the rim. They got stuffed a couple of times. They, uh, they weren't getting the same offensive boards that they usually get from, from, uh, I guess they had 17 offensive boards. That's pretty good. But, but the Lakers were all set up. They played the bully ball style that they needed to play. They are up six points with seven minutes and 20 seconds left in the fourth quarter, 87, 81.

So that's exactly the kind of point total that you want in the fourth quarter. If you're the Lakers playing Portland, by the way, ended up scoring 70, 64 points after the first quarter, they had 36 points in the first quarter and 64 through the remainder of the game. So the Lakers were able to impose their defensive will, impose their style of play, but they, they, they lost all their offensive advantage in the last seven minutes of the game by they brought Cog Cantavious off the bench again,

inexplicably. I mean, here's part of the challenge I have. They need a third player. Who are you going to play? You're going to play Davis. It's Kuzma. Get Kuzma off. Kuzma needs to be starting the games. Let him touch the ball seven times at the beginning of the game. Build his confidence and get him off. He's their third best player.

It's not really a mystery at this point with this composition of the Lakers. He had 14. Danny Green, who started out cold, he finished with 10. If I'm the Blazers, I, but you know, if I'm the blazers, I'm looking at that game and I'm thinking we didn't even play that well. We, we shot 39%. We only made 13 threes. We had a typical offer to from his own year,

the worst player in the league. We had only two for eight from Gary Trent. Who's just starting to cool off, crash back to earth a little bit. And then our guy, Gabriel, who nobody ever heard of until a week ago, uh, 60 minutes, two for two Carmela's only three for 11. Nurkic was four for 11. Like I didn't even really feel like they played well. Lillard was only nine for 21, got to the line a couple of times, but you know, he made a couple of long ones, but he didn't have like those crazy Dame lowered stretches that he was having during the bubble. So if I'm Portland, I'm leaving this game and I'm like, this is pretty good for us because I mean, the adjustments for the Lakers are going to be to get rid of their centers and

play Davis at the five more and try to spread it out with more shooting and try to, cause they were getting killed in transition, stuff like that. But if they're taking out the centers and playing Davis at five, that wears him down. There's just, there's some good things in play here for Portland is my point. Well, to me, the single biggest determining factor was Portland having played playoff basketball now for eight games, right? Yeah. Game Lillard did not score in the second half of this game until there was

about, you know, six or seven minutes left in the fourth quarter. He didn't score in the third quarter, but the poise of Portland, Gary Trent, you mentioned that, that he didn't make, he made a huge three. Mello made a huge three. Dame made two huge threes. McCollum made two gigantic baskets. They just were poised all the way through. And the Lakers

with 90 seconds left in the game and the game still very much hanging in the balance, started taking these rushed, off-balance, disorganized threes. They didn't try and foul at all to create the length in the game at all. It really looked

like a team playing in October, in know, lengthen the game at all. It really looked like a team, you know, playing in October, in November, right? Just getting used to each other. And maybe that's the point of the bubble, right? Cause they don't know who they are. That's it. I'm with you. And this is why I like Miami so much. We bet you and I bet before the playoffs, we bet on Miami and the clips at 40 to one in a final as the final, the finals. Yeah. I want teams for four rounds who know who they are. Davis and LeBron know who they are. Kuzma is fine, but if, if like, and I agreed with what you said, they need him to come through as their third guy. He has no experience in that. It's his first playoff game he ever

played in. And you go on down the line. I just don't trust some of their guys. I don't trust Caruso. I don't trust Caldwell Pope. By the way, I'm not even sure those guys would crack the Celtics nine man rotation, right? You think like you think about getting that Celtics thing. We're talking Lakers. Get that Celtics. Get that in the ass

with that. Would either of those guys play for the bucks? Oh, yes, they would. They would definitely play for the Bucs. Would either of those guys play for the Clippers? No, I don't know. Come on. I'm so mad at us that we abandoned the Blazers after how well they treated us in the bubble.

They were like a blackjack dealer that hooked us up for an entire night and just gave us 21s and double downs and gave us Kings, and we're winning. We're tipping them. They're just hooking us up for an entire night and just gave us 21s and double downs and gave us Kings and we're winning. We're tipping them. They're just hooking us up for eight hours. And then we see them at the craps table and we're like, we're betting. Don't come against you. And the guy's like, what happened? I just want you for eight hours. What happened. We have to go back and go against this. So I think there's going to be a huge overreaction, overcorrection, what's wrong with the Lakers.

But the great thing about bubble basketball is there's so many games that last eight hours. Yes. And it's not like you can hear the home crowd get nervous or anything like that. And I do think, like, Milwaukee mentioned it today. One of the guys on Milwaukee, I think it was George Hill, mentioned how after the game that it was just weird.

Like they had played all year for the one seed. They thought they would have this home court advantage that would give them a lift. And now they're just in this bubble and they really have no advantage at all other than the prompts and the voice things. It was like, it's tough. And at the one hand, you're like, all right, that's an excuse. Like get over it. You have the best team. And the other hand you're like, well, all that's doing is

evening out all of these different seeds, right? You have a one seed versus an eight seed, but ultimately who fucking cares? You're playing in a, in a gym in the history of the league. Has there ever been an instance where the two eight seeds in the first playoff games of the series beat the one seeds? Well, you know what it's like? It's like hockey. This shit happens in hockey all the time. And hockey is a place where home ice advantage just doesn't matter at all. Teams can go and win a game seven, wherever they don't care.

They're just skating around. And I wonder if the bubble playoffs, if this is turned into hockey. So if I'm, I found the blazers, cause I don't think the lower seed can win a series without winning game one. And that's why the poor Zingas ejection was so devastating last night. Cause now Dallas has to beat them four to six times. Not realistic. If you're trying to pull off an upset, you have to win game one. And that's the history of all of these upsets.

Nobody's like, oh yeah. Remember that time we lost game one and then we pulled off an upset. Very rarely happens. You get to set the tone in that first game. You see, you don't know this. You're you're you're wizards bullets. You know,

you haven't really had any good playoff memories in 40 years. So I'm just telling you from my unnecessary, from my experience, I will say this. Did you watch the TNT crew did you watch Charles Barkley tonight well he was saying it was a must win for the Lakers before the game

not only did he say that he said if Portland won this game tonight that Portland's going to sweep this series yeah but that's when he's doing the crazy I know but he also called Kyle Kuzma Carl which was spectacular he called Carl Kuzma Carl, which was spectacular. He called Carl Kuzma.

He just called Carl Kuzma anyway. It's fine with me. It works. Here's why there won't be a sweep. There's going to be a game where there's going to be like a 60-10 free throw advantage. I thought we were going to get it today.

LeBron had one where he committed three fouls at the same possession and somehow ended up at the line. I was like, oh, alright. They're going to make it today. Me too. LeBron had one where he committed three fouls at the same possession. And somehow ended up at the line. I was like, oh, all right. They're going to make sure the Lakers win this. But, you know, it's, I don't like what I've seen from them. They do not look like the team from the first week of March when they took care of business that weekend. We were like, oh, this is the best team in the league.

I do not feel like they're the best team in the league. And guess what? That was almost six months ago. It's like half a year. So much can change. There's a lot of pressure on the LA brain trust, because what we saw out of Anthony Davis standing out there outside the three point line,

repeatedly catching the ball and holding it or tentatively taking, he was awful taking threes. It was like the best defense that the blazers played was letting Anthony Davis have the ball outside the three point line and letting Contavious Caldwell Pope shoot. Every time he touched the ball, that was their best defense tonight. Yeah.

Contavious you're open for a reason. As Jay LaRose would say, I, uh, I, I heard this dialogue a couple of times and a couple of different places about people talking about, and we, we both really like and appreciate Davis. And I think we properly evaluate him as one of the best eight players in the league, but people are wondering, is this the best teammate LeBron's ever had? To me, that's so offensive to Dwayne Wade. All I'm saying is Anthony Davis make a round three before we're saying you were a better LeBron teammate all time than Dwayne Wade in 2011 Wade and LeBron were two of the three best guys in the league. And if that game two in the finals doesn't flip and then Dirk just starts

playing out of his mind and Jason Terry makes it and flips that series and Dallas ends up winning. Stop. Wade would have had two in six years. He ended up winning two more anyway. Come on. Well, wait,

wait, wait, don't do the whole sports talk radio thing. Who is, who is it? That's saying that over and over again. I mean, where? Is it in LA?

People are saying it in LA? Who are the people? People are saying stuff. People are saying it? It's patently absurd. By the way, I'm not doing the Doris Burke where I didn't read the whole thing

and I'm just going to throw somebody under the bus. Oh, no. Oh, no. No, I'm just saying it's been a thing that's out there. I'm not going to throw somebody into the bus. No, I'm just saying it's been a thing that's out there. I'm not going to throw it into the bus. I just want to remind everybody. Anthony Davis is a free agent after the season.

Oh, things don't go good. I like where you're going with that. Things don't go good. Hey, speaking of Dwayne Wade's old Miami team, I loved what they did today. Cause I thought Indiana actually was, had a good game plan, did all the stuff they wanted to do in that game.

And Miami is just really good. Guess what? When you, when you're making threes and you're doing that slash and kick stuff and it never ends and you always have three shooters out there and you always have two guys who can create. It's just too hard to keep up with it.

Especially Indiana lost a little Depot early, but there you go. I mean, I'm glad you said that's the point, right? Like they don't, they don't have some bonus and they don't have Depot. And notwithstanding that,

I thought they were super competitive. I was so impressed with Indiana, but, but ultimately you and I both love Miami and what we saw out of them today validates our, our point of view on why we think they have the recipe for long-term success in the East. They, uh, you know, didn't even, I wouldn't even say they played like that great today. They're only 13 for 35 from three. Uh,

that's pretty good. No, Butler was really good. Yeah. Dragic is really good, but their role guys who normally, you know, out of Harrow, out of Olenek,

Duncan Robinson, maybe Crowder. They'll usually get two of those guys going. The only guy who got going today was hero who it just fucking kills me over and over again. Cause of what happened to the Celtics. They lose the coin flip. That dude would be playing for us.

But, um, I, I, there were a couple of teams that I thought just took care of business in these first 48 hours. They were one of them. I loved what Harden did.

Harden was like, Hey, by the way, I eat for everyone saying, okay, it was okay. So he's the big upset pick. I'm still the best player in this series. Settle down.

And he did his whole thing. And then yesterday, I thought Tatum took care of business. I liked what Toronto did against the Nets, but I thought Tatum played such a good game, and I want to get to the Celtics a little bit later, but then even the Clippers, the Porzingis thing, whatever,

I still think the Clippers probably win that game. But I like that they were awesome initially, took a huge haymaker from the 48-18 run, whatever, and then just kind of figured it out. And they have some real mismatches. The Paul George thing is just a huge mismatch for, for Dallas. But, um, so, you know, the teams that took care of business versus the Milwaukee Lakers, it's kind of jarring. I don't feel like it's just like, oh, that's an aberration. Milwaukee's looked like that for a while. And the Lakers thing,

I can't say I'm shocked even though we bet on them tonight, right? We've been sort of postulating, wondering aloud, musing, you know, what kind of impact is the bubble going to have through these teams that are sort of, you know, had to put the brakes on back in March. Are they able to, do they have a switch to flip? And for both Milwaukee and LA, I think we anticipated seeing the switch today and there wasn't no switch.

There was no switch to flip. It's tough when you don't have the three-point shooting. Because I think there's so many teams that can just make 18 to 23 is in a game and get it. We saw it over and over again in the bubble, these teams that would have like 125, 130 points. And even a team like the nets could have these streaks where they could have like a 65, 70 point

half. And with the Lakers, it really has to be more, you know, bully ball, plus them kind of crossing their fingers that some of these flimsy role players can come through at LeBron statistically. What did he finish with like a 23, 17 and 16? What are they losing when he has a game like that? Yeah. An incredible triple double. Well, I wonder, so we're still, and I talked about this week and Africa, LeBron was alluding to issues with the bubble. And I was wondering like, what's he talking about? Um, is, is he not happy in the bubble? Um, is he worried about some things he's seen with the Lakers? Like what's going on, but, um, I'll be interested to see how he handles

the next 48 hours. Cause sometimes we'll go on Twitter and do like the weird tweet where you don't know who he's tweeting at and shit like that. And maybe he'll do that tomorrow. I want to ask you this question. And I, and I think it's, it's related to what you're getting at here. The teams that most impressed us over the last 48 hours are the teams, and we said a little bit ago, who know who they are.

They have their identity. They play to their strengths. And the coaches definitely have a role in that, right? There's some kind of stability, institutional support, whatever, however you want to characterize it, all the jokes about playoff bud coming out and all of the, the, the Twitter pictures and Instagram pictures of, of confused bud face were, were hilarious, but like playoff bud, just doesn't instill a whole ton of confidence, whatever's going on with the Lakers with, you know, uh, three and a half, you know, head coaches where, you know, Vogel's the head coach in name, but is he really the head coach?

Anthony Davis catching the ball again and again and again outside the three-point line, confused the hell out of me. They look confused. What would you do offensively if you were them that you feel like they're not doing? High-low, high-low, high-low. Get Anthony Davis the ball down near the basket. Let him come out on the corners.

He can escape from down low to create room for LeBron. But get Anthony Davis the ball. Let him cook. Who's going to stop him? Let him go up against Hassan Whiteside and foul that bum out in the first half of the game. Well, Whiteside's audition for a Lakers contract is going fantastic. I would say what? 58% chances on the Lakers next year. Dwayne had his typical garbage Dwayne game. I mean, he

continues to be one of my least favorite players in a long time. What did he have tonight? He had 15 minutes, five fouls. What's the plus minus? Four points, five rebounds. Plus seven, plus minus. Okay. Five fouls. And it seemed like there was a couple of times when it seemed like he was about to get in a fight with Whiteside,

which I think would have been trouble for the internet trying to figure out who to root for in that fight. Well, it would have been, but that that's, you know, it, it, it could have been effective, right? Like, cause Whiteside had five blocks. Like he was, he was, um, down there shutting down the paint on drives coming from the top in, in this, in a, in a curiously similar way that Marcus Morris really affected the outcome of that Clippers Dallas game by getting under this, you know, Lucas skin and he got under Zinger skin. Do you think LeBron has texted Avery Bradley yet? See, this is what I'm good. This is what I this is what I'm saying to you

now, right? This institutional, the stability, just like the chemistry. We've been able to see it. It's acute under these circumstances. Toronto looked awesome earlier, right? Miami stuck to their identity. The

Clippers, they handled their business. That game should have been something different because they should not have been kicked out, but go back to Toronto though. Cause this was, there were a couple of teams in the 99 lockout that stayed in shape and practice with each other and had a huge advantage hitting in the season. I remember San Antonio is one of them and ended up winning the title. And it does seem like the Toronto team, you can kind of see who's on the same page. Conversely, Philly, who I want to talk about after the break, Philly looks like nobody, they haven't even had a practice yet to teach somebody how to throw an

entry past Embiid. And, uh, just, I, I was shocked by the announcers during the Sixers game last night. And then even our, our buddy Jalen and the halftime show and people like, and B you got to let them cook. It's like they were giving the ball. He kept losing it. How many turnovers can the guy have? He had, he, I think he was credited for five or six, but it felt like he had like eight or nine and the Celtics were just, when you'd have the ball, they would send a second guy

diving kind of at his legs to try to tip the ball, touch the ball, whatever, force him to make a dumb pass, which he did a few times. And I don't know. He just looked, he didn't look like he was totally in shape. He decided not to guard Tice at all on threes. I don't know if that was strategy or he was just trying to conserve energy, but to hear him being praised for that game, Brett Brown finally said after the game, like somebody was like, do you need to get Joel the ball more?

He's like, we did. He kept losing it. Like he, he was like, yeah, he kept turning the ball over. That's a problem for us. And so that was one thing. And then the other thing is they just don't know how to set them up because once they lost Simmons, Simmons was the only guy that team had who could create a shot from somebody else.

Who's creating a shot for somebody else in that team. Name me a guy. No, that's it. That's, that's the problem. It's a design problem. They, they, they spent their money on Tobias Harris and now Horford and just said, we're going to roll the dice with Ben Simmons. We think he can be somebody different. We're going to try him, you know, to see if his growth, his development with our franchise is going to produce a different kind of skill than something that he's shown before, which is table setter. He's at his best running downhill. He's great at pace.

He's great at finishing on the fast break. That is not compatible with Joel Embiid. We've only been talking about it for two full fucking seasons now. We keep watching it. I mean, everybody's, the poor Sixers fans are ready to, you know, throw Brett Brown,

put him inside the Ben Franklin bell and ring it till whatever. Hold on. Let's take a break because I want to talk about that serious. Hey, hiring is challenging, especially with everything else you have to consider today, but there's one place you can go where hiring is simple, fast, and smart, a place where businesses can connect to qualified candidates. That place is zip recruiter.com slash BS zip recruiter sends

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That's for our listeners. Zip crew.com slash BS. Zip recruiter is the smartest way to hire. All right. We're talking six or Celtics and we'll get to Hayward's injury in a second. The Sixers that was lined up for them in game one. They, every time it seemed like the Celtics were going to blow the game open, the Sixers would make some crazy three with a hand in

somebody's face. And they just kind of kept hanging around, hanging around. They turned the ball over a shitload of times. Didn't matter. Tatum and Brown were the only guys playing well in the Celtics. Then Hayward gets hurt. And there was a moment in that game where it's like, Oh my God, Philly's going to steal this. And they just couldn't get it done. And I, you and I thought Brett Brown should have been gone last year, but, um, it just does not seem like a team that I would say is running on all cylinders. And I mean, it's not really fair. Right. And we talked about it when Simmons got hurt earlier in this bubble scenario. Well, you know, it's fair start fiable and make sure he's on the court every minute with

Tatum. I hate giving away that secret, but guess what? You have to stop Jason Tatum, especially now that Hayward's out. Fiable has to play every minute. Tatum's out there. If you're not doing that, then you deserve to get fired. If you're playing Horford and Embiid together at the start of the game, you're doing the Celtics a favor because Tatum or Brown, whoever Horford has to guard in that scenario,

they have a huge advantage offensively. He's not going to be able to guard them. You put Thibel out there, at least Tatum has to work for his points, you know, and that's, I couldn't believe he didn't realize that. And then finally he ended in crunch time. He ended it with Fiebel, but I would assume like their best lineup would be Horford on the bench, unfortunately for Horford. And you switched him and Fiebel, you play Richardson, you play shake Milton and you play,

uh, you play Harris. And that's who you, if you're going to beat the Celtics, that's gotta be the lineup. The biggest advantage that the Sixers have with the lineup that they have is a bead. And he didn't touch the ball in, in the post, you know, within the, inside the, the free throw line in the last seven minutes, I think they, they said he touched it once or maybe zero to, I don't know what the stat was, but it was. Because you know why? Because it was too hard. The Celtics were making him work to get the ball and he didn't want to put in the work. He just didn't. It's a fact. All right. I watched

the game. You watched it. Did that seem like a guy whose life depended on it in the second half where it's like, I got to get the ball? No, it's a scheme thing though, right? We said it, you said it two minutes ago. Who's the guy that's setting the table that can get him the ball

in the best position for him to be successful? Now, your point is absolutely well taken. When are we going to see him? He was 28 feet from the basket. He needs to get down there and start putting people in the torture chamber. And we keep begging for him to do it. It's game winning time.

You can go steal a game one in these circumstances, even with your depleted lineup, you had the opportunity sitting there in the fourth quarter and, you know, you, you just basically out schemed yourself by having him out all the way out, out where he was.

There was one possession where the Celtics just put smart on him to fuck with them. I mean, that's fine. I like that matchup. Smart. They were like, yeah, go post them up. All right. So Hayward's out. Hayward did not play well in that game for the record. And my head, my friend Hedge and I, a lot of texts complaining about Hayward yesterday. I mean, he had six terrible plays, just terrible. And it was like, oh man, right. The bubble Hayward was like, oh, maybe, oh, maybe. And then it's like, oh yeah. Okay. Here's the, it's like Dr. Jacob has tried. Then he hurts his ankle. And there's this minute of panic where it's like, oh fuck,

it was that same ankle. And I'm frantically Googling to see what ankle he broke. And it's like, oh, thank God it was the left ankle. But, uh, it didn't seem great. Now he's out for four weeks. The Celtics team was a seven man team, the starters plus, uh, Marcus smart canter off the bench. Watermaker is the eighth man who is, you know, the more he plays, the more nervous you just are. I'm sure you've had guys like that in the wizards bullets over the years. And then this weird Robert Williams, Grant Williams, depending on the game, the matchup, you throw them out there, keep your fingers crossed. Nothing terrible happens. Well, now Hayward's out and you lose 32 minutes with Hayward smarts. Going to get some of them. Unfortunately, Wanamaker is going to get some of them. And then they kind of have to cross their fingers.

I think with Sammy Ojale or Jermichael Green, because if you get in a situation where Jalen or Tatum get in foul trouble, they don't have another swing now other than smart to defend like a Tobias Harris type. So they have this guy, Jameichael green. Do you, you know, those guys, when you watch your team every, every week and you get attached to these dudes and you wish they played

more. So this year's guy was Jameichael green. He's super athletic swing guy. He can shoot threes. He really gives a shit. He tries. And he just never really totally got a chance. And when Hayward,

the Hayward news today, I was texting a couple of Celtic friends. I was like, I think it's time. Can we see it? Can we see a little Jamichael? But it also tells you where I'm at with my favorite team, where I'm sending texts wondering if Jamichael Green is going to get run. This is not where I wanted to be in the playoffs house.

Well, we talked, I don't know, 10 days ago, two weeks ago. And you were pretty honest with yourself about what the prospects for the Celtics team look like. Well, that cause mostly because of Kemba who did not look great yesterday. Do you think he looked good yesterday? I mean, he's, he's not full Kemba. You need full Kemba, but here's the thing. You ain't, you ain't beaten Toronto. So this is right. Isn't that where you would, the matchup that would come next? I thought we,

I thought we had a real chance to beat them. If we, if the team was healthy. Cause, cause we've just like, there's a bubble game and granted that we're at high stakes for Toronto, but we just match up pretty well with them. Okay. It's,

and they're always when, when, when we play them, the games are always like really good games and really intense and good back and forth to great coaches, all that stuff. But now Hayward's out four weeks. And then,

you know, the other piece of it is just, I, I've that, I don't ever remember Boston having an athlete like Hayward. That was more snake bit where it's like, you know, the fucking guy got hurt in the first half of his first game after he had signed $120 million

contract. He has one of the most gruesome injuries, not his fault in the history of the league. And since then, it's just been like one setback after another, he was, you and I were together for my, my birthday watching the game when he got hurt. And I was just finished telling you how awesome he was playing. And then he got hurt. Yeah. And it's just like one thing after another, I feel like we need to have an exorcism with him or something. You might literally have to exercise him. You might have to, you know, trade him. He's going to be on the team next year because he'll be opting into his, uh, Oh yeah. 30 bucks. Isn't it?

The scenario for the South is if Tatum just does what he did yesterday for seven weeks, which is the sidekick and then doing more than what he did in those seven weeks. He needs, you need to get a hyperbaric chamber for Kemba and just let him go in there every night and sleep and, you know, get extra oxygen. Maybe he needs to, you need to seek the doctor in from Germany

for some. Yeah. Rich plasma. Let's get, let's get him in. Where's that dude from Germany? Yeah. We need some, some PRP, uh, Dr. Dr. Gunther P P T P. What was it? PCP? No, not PCP. Platelet rich plasma. Dr. Gunther platelet come to America and fix Kemba's knee. Cause the other thing, it wasn't just offense. You know, he had a couple of moments, but he was pretty up and down offensively, but defensively he was not good and it's not going to hurt them in this Philly series. But when they get to the next round, when they have to guard Van Vliet and Lowry,

and he's just not going to be able to do it. And Marcus for as great as he is as a defender, he's really kind of better off defending bigger guys. Like it's the little water bug guys are never great for him. He's always had issues, you know, to some degree with those guys. He's not like lights out. I'm sure I'm taking these guys out the way like a Pat Beverly would. He's always been better with taller guys. But, um, but yeah, it's a bummer. Cause I do think, I think that Sixers series could have ended early. Now I'm not so sure. I don't want to give him beat any life because if he ever figures this out for a second, God only knows how this series plays out. Thank God. Nobody can throw him an entry pass. I'm so glad they don't have TJ McConnell. Can you imagine?

Even he would be such a help to them just for 20 minutes a game. He would just be able to get him, be the ball. Exactly. The table setter that they need. Yeah. That they could use that. They could have used all season long.

Sixers fans are furious by the way that they let him go. Didn't they have Trey Burke? Not that he's a table setter, but did they have him earlier this year? I don't know. You're not going to get me to be able to say anything nice about him. He was in Washington and I thought he built, he didn't belong in the league. He was half decent on Dallas. Quickly. The, uh, the weirdo series, Utah versus Denver. Cause that game's going to be happening probably by the time people hear this, but you have on the one end Denver, exactly what we thought with Porter jr. Once it got to the playoffs, they couldn't hide them defensively. Utah was just seeking about destroying them. But then you had this random Jamal Murray, another Jekyll Hyde guy.

He's awesome. Game two, he could have eight points. Utah's not getting 57 for Michigan. It just feels like a series. That's going to go seven, right? Can we, I'm looking, I'm see if I can get those right now. Can we get that series bet up? We let, can we bet on Denver and seven? Is it too late? Series exact results. Can we bet those? No, they're not up. Those, those odds are, are not up at the, at this time of night. Series exact results. Well, we have, so Utah is plus four 85 to win the series. I got to say that's, that's too high. I think they could still come back pretty easily.

I liked some of the matchups for them in this series. And you know, the Porter jr thing, I, he'll have to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different

games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. I mean, I think he's going to be playing a lot of different games. a good Murray game. You're going to be texting me in game two when he's two for nine and you're like, what the fuck happened to Jamal Murray in this game? That's what he does. That's who he is. I just mean the

symbiosis of those two. True. They're very complimentary. That's all. And it's a shame. I mean, Utah... Now, Conley apparently is going to be able to be back by mid-series So that's another reason why picking it

thinking it's going to go 7 has some good legit legs I was really glad I was at the hospital when my kids were born, just for the record I understand Weren't you? Is anybody criticizing him for that? No,

no, no. I just, I always try to put myself in position of the athlete. And if it was like round three, like, let's say it's like the series is two to two and it's like your wife's having a baby.

And it's like, at some point the stakes have to be at a point where you would seriously consider it. And I don't, I don't think there's any scenario unless it was the finals for me. If it was the finals. Not even the finals. Fuck that.

Are you kidding me? The birth of your child versus your profession? Who gives a shit? What if it was the second one? What if it was the second kid? You know where the line is? The ninth. The ninth kid.

That's where I would say, okay, I've had eight. I was there for the first eight. The ninth is where I draw the line. I'm going to go to the finals this year. Third kid? I mean, I want to be there for all of the kids. Well, that's how I felt. But I didn't know if I was a professional athlete and I had limited chances to win a title,

what the, what the stakes would have to be for me to seriously consider. Plus you're also dealing with from, from the wife, a lifetime of resentment. A lifetime. This is what I mean. You're age 80 and they're bringing it up.

Of course. Cause you weren't in the fucking hospital room for our second kid. Yeah. That's why I mean the eighth, ninth kid. At that point, maybe it gets, you know. But when you have, like, just the first couple handful, come on, you got to be. And it's only a few days.

It's not like you missed the whole series. Let's bring in Phil Rivers. Phil, kid number eight. Did you have to be there? Yeah, I, uh, it's funny, kid number eight. Did you have to be there? Yeah. I, uh, it's funny.

Cause I do think there's probably been guys over the years who probably said, fuck it and just stayed with the team. Right. I mean, I'm sure we could find guys like that. There are, I'm sure there's stuff.

They wouldn't write stories about it, but yeah. Anyway, Mike Conley, hurry back. Cause I think that series is going to stuff they wouldn't write stories about it, but yeah. Anyway, Mike Conley, hurry back. Cause I think that series is going to be good. The Mavs are plus eight 50. The nets are plus 3,500.

The 76ers. I don't really understand this are six to one, which seems high. I mean, uh, which seems high because I actually think that series, I'm not sold on the Celtics like being in the runaway driver's seat now that Hayward's gone.

Right? Six to one. The Sixers are six to one underdogs. I mean, I need them to be double digit underdogs before it catches my gambling interest. All right. So we don't have a Blazers line yet. Maybe we do though.

Hold on. Let me refresh. No, we still don't. I don't care what happens. I'm betting on the blazers. I don't, I don't care what the very first moment a line comes up for them in this series. I'm betting on, I don't give a shit. This is the overreaction podcast. We owe it to the blazers out of loyalty for what they did for us through the first eight games of the, of the bubble, the commitment that they showed how serious they took this whole thing. They grabbed the opportunity. We owe the soccer moms in Portland, Bill Simmons. We love them. Um, I have a Milwaukee point. I forgot to mention, I think they're playing too many guys. I actually think they overdid it at the trade deadline.

And they added Marvin Williams. Who's the other guy they added? They added two guys at the deadline. Oh, Kyle Korver. A little before the deadline. But looking at the box score tonight, and I felt this way watching the game, too. They played 10 guys.

I just, in the playoffs, I'm good with eight, nine max. I don't need 10. I like 10 makes sense to me in the regular season. But when I'm in the, like the Blazers played eight guys tonight, they're like,

here are our best date. We're going to win with these guys. And two days later, we're going to play our eight guys tonight. They're like, here are our best eight. We're going to win with these guys. And two days later, we're going to play our eight guys again. They played, uh, they played 10 and Lopez only played two minutes, but you know, Wes Matthews, Connaughton defense, Deva Senzo, um, Marvin Williams. Like, wouldn't you just kind of just figure out who your best three out of those guys were? I don't get it. But this is like a weird Coach Bud thing.

Look, to be fair, it could be the case that their approach to this series was still to do some experiment because experiments... They're playing Orlando. Yeah, I get it. Yes, and because they really were so

lackluster, so flaccid in the entire bubble experience. And I don't know if it's, well, I'm not even going to make the joke I wanted to make there. Well, you know what? You know what? The flaccid joke?

Yeah. Did it remind you of that weird Atlanta, Indiana series that you're in Piero Antic? Piero Antic, whatever his name was, and Atlanta is playing center 25 feet from the hoop, pulling Hibbert out and completely fucking up that Indiana defense member and went seven games. Cause Orlando was like, Hey, Vooch pull up, pull their centers out and shoot some threes. He shot eight threes.

I mean, he made some too. He made five, but, um, Gary Clark four for 12, four for 12 from three. He took no two point shots. They took, they took 41 threes at all. And it's like, I think they were just like, we're just bombing threes. It's a great game. We're pulling their centers out. And we're basically going to fuck with the bucks. We're not going to let you do what you normally like to do. And it worked. And also, they used the Toronto playbook from last year's playoffs in the fourth quarter, just packed the paint, and dare the freak to try and drive in and create shots. You know, he started settling for those jumpers again,

those low percentage, you know, inside the for those jumpers again those those low percentage you know inside the three-point line low efficiency you know sort of medium length to long right length twos because he didn't have any room to go you know drive into the lane toronto did that to great success last year and you know the league pays attention, when a team is able to shut down an MVP. What are you looking forward to most for the game twos? Wow. What's that your agenda? I'm going to read you some lines just to whet your appetite. This is great. Toronto nets. We don't care. Utah is getting four and a half points against Denver. The Sixers are only getting four and a half points against the Celtics, which again, you're a six to one underdog,

but you're getting four and a half points in game two. And then Dallas is getting six and a half points. The under for over under for that game is two 30 and a half. I can't wait until you lose money on it one way or the other. God, I can't. I'm just not going to talk. I can't talk about it. They combined for 34 points in the third quarter. The third quarter was among the worst quarters of basketball I've watched in 2020. The third quarter between the Clippers and Dallas. Now, the Zinger getting kicked out contributed to that.

But it was awful. They were taking terrible. Both teams were taking terrible shots. Neither team looked like they gave a shit. It was a 21 to 13 quarter that the Clippers won. I'm trying to. I like Utah tomorrow. I just think that series goes seven.

I don't think Denver has anyone on the team to guard Mitchell. I don't think he's going to score 57 a game, but I think he can get wherever he wants. I'm going to join you on that one. Let's, let's, let's come up with the parlay. I like that one. That's a good start. I'm going to join you on Utah. I'd probably do them with, uh, with Houston and game two. Well, he, I mean that the Houston that we saw tonight is unstoppable, right? Like that version of them where all of their guys are super comfortable. They're all getting to their spots. Eric Gordon was a force.

I mean, it was the very best version of Eric Gordon. It's the Eric Gordon that Houston needs to make the deep run. He will certainly, if he's this effective, tie them over and tell Westbrook is back if Westbrook's able to come back. This version of Houston is unstoppable, but they're not going to shoot this well through the entirety of the playoffs. And so the question is, you know, when they run into some adversity. But what can Oklahoma City do? Because they,

they got pretty good games out of Steven Adams and Gallo. I mean, they, they, they both are, their big guys had pretty good games, but they, they went with a three guard lineup. Oklahoma city did. And I don't think it worked at all. Well, they're missing Dort. Do you ever think we'd say that? They need to come back. That's their hearted guy. I mean, I've said it a couple times, different circumstances, but

we need some Dort. Apparently. Last but not least, we're going to give our thoughts about the college kids going back to campus, including some kids at our old school who had a cross-heart and got in trouble. But we decided, we talked to our lawyers, and we decided there's no possible

way we could talk about this without coming off like complete assholes and shitheads and dumbasses. So we're just going to avoid it completely. I think that's the right decision. I mean, we tried it three different ways and we sounded worse each time. So let's just, you know,

wish everybody the best. Try and stay safe, everybody. I will say that we were on an email with a third person. And I said that if this was 1989, House and I would have tried to get COVID out of the way the first couple of weeks at school. So we could have been playing pickup basketball by October. And House agreed.

I mean, it's possible. I can't just flatly rule it out it's because we would we would have thought because we were idiots who made terrible decisions we're going to get this anyway let's just get it out of the way that that is how dumb we were i'd like to say stupid i i'd like to say that i've i've grown and now I understand the public health implications. But, you know, living inside that kind of insular environment, right, and you don't expect that you're going to come into contact necessarily with any sort of vulnerable class, right? You don't think that you're going to, if you're not attending classes with folks that are older than you, you're not going to see your family. So you're not going to endanger your parents. The risk-reward analysis just gets a little too complicated for an 18-year-old, a 19-year-old, a 20-year-old, at least from our era. I'll just

talk about us. I'm not talking about the kids of today. I'm talking about us. And here's why we bring this up. College kids. We were there once. We were as dumb as you are now. Make good choices. Just put that extra two minutes of thought into your choices. Because we certainly didn't back in the day. We did not. We would have made terrible choices right now in college. In terms of safety.

Behavior. All that stuff. So we're just, we're giving you the, be careful out there. Yeah, that's all. Do the best you can. This will be in our rear view mirror at some point. Probably, hopefully, God willing, sometime in the next six months, it'll be in our rear view mirror. And we can all go back and have great parties

on Caro street and incredible parties at the white house and all the rest of it. I mean, I know it's tough for the Holy cross kids to not have, you know, the awesome football team and the three and 26 basketball team potentially not playing central fabric. I just want us to be good at sports again. Well, the good news is there is no sports for Holy cross to be bad at. I guess that's bad news. That good news.

Um, anyway, house enjoy, uh, enjoy the rest of the, uh, round one bubbles. Good to see you.

Thanks for staying up late for us. I can't wait. I'm always here for you, buddy. All right. See ya. All right. We're going to bring in Triple H in one second.

First, everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You can get in a crash. People can get hurt or killed. But let's take a moment to look at some surprising statistics. Almost 29 people in the United States die every day in alcohol-impaired vehicle crashes. That's one person every 50 minutes. Even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third

in the last three decades, drunk driving crashes still claim more than 10,000 lives each year. What a shame. Drunk driving can have a big impact on your wallet too. You can get arrested, incur huge legal expenses. You can even possibly lose your job. All right. So how do you prevent drunk driving? Plan a safe ride home before you start drinking. Designate a sober driver or call a taxi. And if someone you know has been drinking, take their keys and arrange for them to get a sober ride home. There's no excuse for driving drunk. None. We all know the consequences of driving drunk. One thing's for sure. You're wrong. If you think it's no big deal, drive sober or get pulled over. And before we get to a triple eights, wanted to mention the rewatchables

Caddyshack went up Monday. That was a really fun one to do 40 year anniversary. And then we have another movie coming on, uh, on Wednesday night that I'm not going to give away, but you can't stream it anywhere. So it doesn't matter. It was the first one we've ever done that we could not find any streamer at all. Stay tuned for that one. I will say it is a classic. All right, without further ado, here is Triple H. All right, it's not the first time he's been on the podcast.

We did one way back when, I think in my office at Grantland, back when you were a kid, you were just breaking into the business. You'd only been in 18, 19 years at that point. Yeah, I didn't have a full 25 yet. Yeah, Triple H, good to see you again. Summer Slam's coming. Summer Slam's coming Sunday.

You guys have been in the throes of, you're really the first ones to try to figure out how to have events without fans. What have you learned over the last five months? Yeah, I think we were the first. I mean, it's a funny thing as the, I remember being in the performance center for an episode of NXT. We were because of a scheduling conflict out of,

out of the arena at full sale. And we were doing an episode of NXT out of the performance center. We were all set up to shoot in there and we were doing an episode of nxt out of uh the performance center we were all set up to shoot in there and uh we're going in on a i was going in on a tuesday and as i called vince to say late that night to say seemingly with all this pandemic talk going on maybe we should leave all this stuff up in here just in case right and he was like yeah maybe it might be smart i don't know you know look into it and see what the cost would be and all that stuff to leave everything up in there and get back to me so next day by the time afternoon time came it he was calling me saying i don't

care what it costs leave all the stuff up in there right we might be headed that way by the end of the night you know we did our show in there live that Wednesday with fans. By the time we were done, the NBA had shut down. We knew the trucks weren't headed to, I think they were going to Detroit at that time. They were turning around and coming to Florida and we could do stuff on a closed set. We were going to have no fans, it looked like. And, you know, that was really the start of it. We never shut down.

We stayed running the whole time, taking as much precaution as we could you know um following guidelines and everything obviously the health and welfare of our talent comes first but um yeah we we never never really shut down there was a few shows in there that were partially pre-recorded content and all that but um and now here we are uh you know as you saw today um they'll be putting up uh an insane um spectacle of a set that we are calling the thunderdome um inside the emway center in orlando and we'll be taking a residency up in there for the foreseeable future it'll start friday night with Smackdown and and I continue from there but it'll be a spectacle and we're going to have virtual fans or not not even virtual fans um fans live but on screen yeah uh real time coming in um you know I know I know the NBA is doing something similar. We'll have a lot more, um, than that. It'll be a full, you know, uh, a large arena. So we'll have a lot more to fill in

and, um, should be spectacular. I've seen it in renderings, uh, but this company, whenever I see something in renderings that I think looks spectacular, when you see it in person, you're blown away. So I can't imagine this is going to be any different when it's done. Yeah. When I was watching the NBA bubble basketball and seeing some of the stuff they did, you know, they had some tricks. They had had some time to really assess what might work, adding some virtual fans, adding some noise, stuff like that. And I remember thinking the first couple of days, I was like,

I wonder if the WWE is working on the completely blown out version of this. And then I heard about the Thunderdome thing. I was like, oh yeah, here's the blown out version of this. And then I had the Thunderdome thing. I was like, Oh yeah, there, here's the, here's the blown out version of this. Yeah. You know, you, what you don't want to do, I think in a way is nobody really knew where this was going to go. So you start to work on things. Um, you, you do some shows with nobody in there, but nobody really understands how long this is going to last or how long it'll

be till we can do anything. Then we were working on closed sets with our um quite a few of our developmental talent from the performance center who aren't on nxt yet in crowds and and they could be a part of it all tested and kept separate from everybody else and but the whole time we were working on a solution like this if it lasted longer what could we do how could we make it bigger um you know wwe is we're we kind of in a way when you think about it the first interactive sports for fans and i don't just mean by being a participant uh or not being a participant but but just sitting there being a viewer and watching it but you know the yay the boo the bring your signs actively participate in the show and that active

participation sells and changes the outcome of things as it's moving forward you know maybe not the final outcome but but how performers interact and and all of that it's everything is designed not just to win a game everything is designed to get reactions and um without those fans there it's a different product it really is and since moment one we've been trying to figure out a way to get our fans back engaged because they are what wwe is truly at its core get them back engaged get them back being a part of it in a way that was safe for everybody to do. And we, we, we think we've got it, got a good place on it. So we'll see Friday night on SmackDown this week on SmackDown. And then for the foreseeable future,

we're picking up a residency center there. So that will be our home for the foreseeable future. Look, we knew the fans were important and we knew they were as big of a character as any actual character you had. I don't think I fully realized how important they were until you had no fans. action, good or bad, or just during a match, all that stuff to just remove. It was really odd, really surreal to watch. I had trouble with it because it was almost like watching somebody dance, but not, but they didn't have a partner anymore. And they're kind of doing all the dance moves, but there's no partner to play off of. And I don't know how,

how you guys did it. It's a standup comic with no one in the, with no one in the building, right? He's hitting his, hitting his jokes, making himself pop. He's looking around. Right. Yeah around right yeah yeah anybody is this on um yeah it it uh it was surreal and i tell you you know for me um my hat's off to our performers anybody that's doing this because it's not it's not an easy task to go out there and do what we do especially if you've been doing it a lot of years one either a lot of years from the standpoint of alright I can go

out there and get my way through this but the physicality hurts a lot more when there's nobody there making noise and you don't have that adrenaline on the flip side of that if you've only been doing this for a few years and everything we tell you is about fan reaction working towards fan reaction and listening and hearing that crowd to affect your psychology and

where things are going. If you're going down a path and it's not working, fans will let you know, go down this path instead. Right. That's everything we teach them. And then all of a sudden that all goes away and they're like, go out there and do it. Go have a good time. And they're still in the habit of, of doing it, but there's no fans there. And, and yeah, you know. And then for you guys, the decision makers trying to decide who should get a push, who's doing great, you're relying so much on fan reactions.

And if the crowd's dead for somebody that you love, it's like, oh, maybe this isn't working. Now you have no idea if something's working except for the internet. 100%. have no idea if something's working except for the internet 100 and and so you you base almost all the reactions that or that we have as a company are based on how crowd is reacting i know sometimes that might be hard for people to get but it's it's based on a lot of factors right crowd reaction ticket sales um merchandise all those things factor into how how you're um using utilizing talent and and the directions that you're headed in with them right um short term and long term and all of that all of a sudden goes away because now you have merch sales but it's different it's based on online

sales not in arena or whatever you don't have ticket sales anymore. You don't have crowd reaction or noise. And you mentioned it yourself, social media, but social media is very tricky because it can be skewed heavily. Yeah. Depending on the platform, negative algorithms and some platforms are much stronger than others. So things that resonate, something bad happens, it trends immediately. Something good happens, it doesn't even get out there because it's the way the algorithms work. It's skews to negativity, which doesn't help you. You're only hearing if somebody sucks or if somebody's not doing well, but nobody's going on Twitter going, man, I really liked that match. I really appreciate the effort of those two guys. It's not happening. Yeah. I have said this since the beginning, like in some manner, the, the,

the internet makes our jobs more difficult, especially with talent, because as a talent, you can go online and selectively pick who you want to listen to and don't want to listen to. So there are certain places and people, and, and, you know, look in this business, everybody wants to talk about um reactions or or uh it's all opinion right that's all it is five star rating opinion that's all it is it's just an opinion there's nobody like if you if you're in the ufc someone can go this guy sucks but he knocks everybody out now you don't suck too bad. You know, it is what it is.

And there's a definitive answer. This is a subjective business where there's opinions and they all matter, but you can selectively find your opinion. So if you're a talent, you just selectively go through the internet

and everybody's saying how great you are and you're the greatest thing in the world. I don't understand why I'm not the guy or the girl. By the way, don't think this is also a problem in the world. I don't understand why I'm not the guy or the girl. By the way, don't think this is also

a problem in the media business. Think about if you're going to selectively look for reactions on the internet, you're in trouble. But think about the rise of DX in the mid-90s. If you had no fans,

how would you have known you're doing well? We would have got fired. We would have got fired is what we would have got yeah and we would have got fired because what was saving us is the reaction of the fans when we would come back and get told you do that again and you're out of here you know but the crowd was going crazy so when we did it again and they went double crazy uh it was hard to come back and have them go you know like they they kind of got to go hard to come back and have them go, you know, like they kind of got to go with it.

You're getting the reaction that you're looking to get. Well, in some cases, like Bray Wyatt, who I would say is probably your hottest guy right now, the no fans in a weird way is helpful in some ways for him because the stuff he's doing is so out there. He kind of doesn't need fans for some of it. Yeah, look, I thought there's been a lot of things that have been done that have been groundbreaking to me

a little bit in some manner out of necessity for WWE anyway. It's not that they've never been done before or whatever, but like the Brayay wyatt uh firefly funhouse at wrestlemania was like some crazy mind trip right can you imagine that crazy mind trip playing on a tron inside of a sold out 80 000 seat stadium with nothing happening in the arena just a stadium like it would have got tragically booed out of the building. They wouldn't have been the ability to even try something like that.

It's allowed us to get, go into different places, some successful, some not, judge what you can out of that. But you also see some performers to me, the performers that can really connect emotionally with themselves to deliver things and understand that the how and the why, those are the characters that have really excelled and don't necessarily need that fan reaction.

Randy Orton, he doesn't need that fan reaction. Randy can get inside his own head and deliver something that you just give you chills. Right. Drew McIntyre. People like, that can connect on a different level. But I think we've seen a lot of performers do that and, and connect at different levels than they maybe would have if they would have had, you know, solely been looking for that 10,000 people arena reaction, you know.

You've, I mean, this has been probably the craziest two-year stretch in wwe history right because you had you know you had a real a real competitor for the first time in 20 years aw you had behind the scenes stuff like your your cfo left and a whole bunch of things going there you had two huge deals that you did. You blew out SmackDown on Fox. You had a whole bunch of TV money coming in. You're also in this whole streaming universe now where you guys were so ahead of the game with the WWE Network.

And now you look at all this streamer. You have a lot of competition on that end, but you could also end up potentially teaming up with one of those people. You just hired Nick Kahn from CAA. He used to run CAA sports, which is now Vince's right-hand guy. And there's just all these balls moving all over the place. What, what's, what do you think is the most important thing for you guys these next five years? Oh, um, well, there's a lot of things. Obviously we have to continue to put out the best product possible. Right. So again,

in this moment of when you look at arenas that are empty and talk about how important the crowd is, it's the most important thing we have, you know, making sure that there's a wealth of talent coming in the door and that we have are delivering something that our fans are are enjoying. And that's an ebb and a flow. But we have to stay on top of that for sure. After that, I think it's it's just the growth potential. And we've talked offline. I think you see this to me, the growth potential of what this company can be and become. As a content company as much as a wrestling company, right? Yeah, as a media company and as everything else, when you look at the rest of the world to expand into those markets that because of

geography, in the past, you've only been able to go in there for a one-off or something and come back to do television, not be able to dedicate time and effort to the market. So localizing in those places becomes very big. You know, sometimes, especially in the U.S., you tend to think about just the U.S., but when you start to look outside of the U.S., you at india as just the potential alone of the amount of people 1.5 billion people there and we're the second biggest um sport in india outside of cricket which is cricket is like a religion yeah you know so um the the opportunities us for us there while we're firmly planted there and everything else. We have a long, long, you know, 25 plus year track record in that market. But we can get in there much deeper and create opportunities in a way that we

never have been able to before because of technology and everything else. I like that you have a competitor because I think competition is good. It's good. It like they beat you in the 18 to 34, they beat, I think raw, um, I think last week, but this is what happened in the mid nineties, right? Where the WWE was a little bit of a crossroads. WCW got momentum for a year and it led to the most creative three-year stretch in the history of the company, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's the thing when you look back

over this, and I'm not going to belittle anybody's anything. That's not the intent. But when you look back at the track record of a company that can shift, pivot, and move, it might take time. It doesn't happen on a Thursday. You know what I'm saying? It just, it takes time, effort, and there's a lot of pieces to move, but a company that historically over and over again has recreated itself, reinvented itself, stayed relevant to the next wave as it was coming in. And, and, and shifting with that and being able to have in flow. It is the strength of this company. It's, um, people will talk about hard work and anybody that can outwork Vince McMahon, God bless him. Um, I've never seen anybody he's

worn out more people than, than I can count. Trust me. Um, you know, that that's, it's what we do. And I would put my money on this. Uh, you know, that people ask me a lot of times did i ever contemplate leaving in in the uh in the monday night wars to go someplace else i said i'd been there and i'd been here and once i met vince and saw that level of passion dedication and everything else there was like no way this guy is losing no no i mean no I mean, no, absolutely no way. And, um, you know, it's, uh, it's awe-inspiring. He really is. And, um, he will pivot and shift and he will put the people around him that he needs to pivot and shift and, um, and it will work, but you talked about it before. And I think it's a funny thing. I remember coming to your studio that day, as you said, when I was a youngster and started.

Yeah, you're a young pup. We were walking to the elevator, and I don't know if you remember it. You said to me offline, where do you see the company in 15 years or 20 years, I believe is the number that you used. And I said, you know, you were asking in relationship to the wrestling business. And I said, Bill, we're Disney. Right. In 20 years, we're Disney. And you were like, wow, that's a lofty goal. I said,

we're a media company that is more akin to Disney instead of a mouse at its core. We have a wrestling ring at its core and the content and the availability to do all those things are there. And I believe you see that now more clearly, or at least I do more clearly that now that I could see it then even. The WWE always reminds me of the NBA and even like Saturday Night Live. There are a couple things that are so dependent on having the big ticket stars. And it ebbs and flows, right? Look at the late 90s. You guys were just loaded. You just had a lot of major, major stars at the same time.

And I think that's the biggest reason people remember it so fondly. I think the same thing happened at the beginning of the 2010s. When CM Punk was on the rise and Daniel Bryan, all of a sudden, you just had a shitload of stars all in the same place. And you've had some stars get older, age out. You've had some stars either get hurt or in Becky Lynch's case, she gets pregnant. How do you build the next generation for this decade? And who is it in your opinion? So you continue to do what you do.

You continue to put talent out there. You continue to build the stars the same way that we always have. And you keep your pulse out there. But again, it's not, it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen on a dime. Sometimes it's not the person that you think. You know, you mentioned the late 90s

and the amazing plethora of talent here. But if you would have gone back a few years prior to that, you would have, and taken a couple of the stars that were on the top then and moved them to the side, which happened, you would have, and, and taken a couple of the stars that were on the, on the top then and moved them to the side, which happened, you would have said, Oh my God, this company has nothing, nothing. And then you flip forward, you know, when, when Stone Cold Steve Austin was brought into the company, he wasn't brought in as the guy, this is the guy that's going to save the company. Um, when I was there, you know, right up until the time that it happened, people were going like, yeah,

I don't know. Right. The rock, certainly when he came in the door, a lot of, a lot of, you know, potential and hope, but that, that first, that first run wasn't what he or anybody else thought it was going to be. And there was a lot of people that were like, well, he's done. And, you know, Foley and you, you can go on and on from that timeframe. And then they just become, yeah. I think if you'd have gone shortly before that, when Nash and Hall and all these people were leaving Brett and if you would

have said, who's the, who's the next one, I don't know if you would have picked that group of people. But in a way that was good that the door opened for the next group of people because a bunch of people left. And sometimes it's like playing time on a basketball team. All of a sudden it's like, all right, I'm starting.

I'm getting shots now. And then it can happen. I used to say it all the time and I think sometimes it was perceived as a knock, but to me, one of the best things that Hogan ever did was leave. And I don't mean that as a knock to him. It's just, there's a comfort level and a focus there.

By the way, he's right here. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I'm showing for the people listening to the podcast. I have every wrestling glass from this era, just so you know. Junkyard Dog, Roddy Piper, Big John Studd, Hulk Hogan, Andre.

These are the best glasses ever. And while it's still early, that's Rox Terramana in there, I'm sure. Right. This is like real glass, though. When it breaks, it's like a real danger. They were messing around in the mid-'80s. Anyway.

If you throw it down, it makes the glass break sound, and then you get a free Stone Cold Steve Austin in the back. Right. And that'd be a good gimmick right um yeah so you know like look i you you can't you can't uh you can't get into a new relationship until you end the one you're in sometimes and that is i i feel like and it's a process um it is what it is but i would put my money on this company every day hey wanted to give a quick shout out to our fan duel contest that we're having right now. It is called the ultimate hoops ringer. Every day there's playoff games, $5 entry fee per contest.

And if you win a contest, you get a ticket to the leaderboard series during the NBA finals where all the winners will compete for a share of 50 K cash ringer swag. And even to be deemed the sole survivor of the ultimate hoops ringer. Here's what you do. Learn more. Enter at fanduel.com slash hoops ringer. You have to enter before the first game each day.

Age and location restrictions do apply. Back to Triple H. Can I give you like two nitpicks? Sure. Why is Ross still three hours? Because- Other than money. Is that the only reason?

It's just a money decision. Yeah, and I think that, yeah. Yes, I was going to make a joke that Vince loves that challenge, which he does. And that it's harder on everybody else. he's like yes three hours um yeah you know if i was your conciliar and you're like bill give us a couple ideas i'd be like make raw two hours stack it make it a filet mignon make it you give it give me your best two hours bill if you said three hours to two hours was your best idea, I would, then I wouldn't need you as my, my conciliar.

That's true. I don't, I don't think that that's a pretty obvious one. Yeah. Well, why, but why not? When can it happen? Boy, that's a, that's above my, uh, my decision-making level, but like, you know, it is, look, I i can i can say this to you like and as much as people watch it and go geez i wish it was two hours it's three it is exponentially harder to write a third hour of television i mean i can't even explain to you how difficult that is i can tell it's hard yeah you get three Even with commercials, it's still like two hours and 20 minutes.

I don't even like three-hour movies, I'll be honest with you. So one thing that I think is fascinating about the last five years, wrestling has always reflected whatever is going on in the real world, right? With storylines and things like that. You go back to the 70s, 80s, 90s, people like the Iron Sheik, Nikolai Volkov. It was always like whatever was kind of going on with America, you could kind of see it a little bit in wrestling.

Even like Bruno Sammartino, like, you know, working class guy. This is our guy kind of represented these things. Why hasn't WWE tried to tap into just how crazy the last four or five years has been in America with any plots is it like too much of a stay away is it too scary I think that there are moments so in in all those other moments in time um the the uniqueness of the world right now is this cancel culture concept, I believe, in that no matter what you do, if you stray too far, you run the risk of alienating half of the people that are out there, maybe more. So I think you have to be much more calculated than you could be with something in the past you know you could you could do an angle in the past um and try to try to maintain a line and go too far with that line and get some you know backlash and pull it and it goes away now today um it's different and i think you just have to be careful with all of that and and I think you see that every single day from every single celebrity news person, sports figure across the board.

It's very easy to put yourself in a position on anything where people go, that's it. I'm done. And are they? I don't know. But I think it requires much more thought. I also think in the short attention span theater in the world, if you said to me some of the things that are the most relevant in the last five years, I bet you could pick quite a number of them that in that five year span went from this was the belief and it's relevant to the exact opposite is now the belief and that's relevant. Right. It's almost difficult to really latch on to a moment in time because that moment in time is intense, but it's brief. Two weeks later it's gone and people aren't talking about it anymore. Or, and it seemed like the biggest thing that that's all anybody was talking

about it. Um, it's, it's a, it's a unique time in the world. I have a feeling it's only going to get more unique. Well, Vince was somebody who never shied away from those times where it's like, oh, this is happening. Screw it. Let's try to do some sort of angle or create some character with it. This time around, he said, I'm staying away, which is, I would say, uncharacteristic from him. He's always taken calculated risks. Yeah. I don't think, you know,

Vince is not just a throw caution to the wind. I'm just going to go crazy and just do this, unless he absolutely really believes in it. You know, they're all calculated risks. Here's the risk I want to take. Here's what could happen if it goes badly. I'm willing to take that gamble and I'll take the shot at it. I don't want this to make it sound like we're a cautious company, but when you have more to lose and more on the line and more people that you're responsible for more families, more, more opportunities, bigger companies, bigger growth opportunities, you know, you're, you even just small shifts like going from Fox USA cable to Fox broadcast and

the level of scrutiny and, and everything else that comes along with that you know you it's a different ball game and it's it's there are different rules and and things that you have to abide by it's it's the calculated risk you have to you have to weigh it a lot more and you have to be willing to um if you're going to take the gamble you have to make sure that you have the right gamble happening then you're willing to take the downside if it goes that way. I think in the past, when the WWE crossed lines with some of this stuff, it was always a wink-wink thing. And now I don't know if that wink-wink

thing even exists. And to your point, I'm not sure you could do it. Even some of the stuff DX, the lines you guys tried to push in the late 90s, in 2020, I just think people react differently to some of that stuff. I think there are TV shows that were made five, ten years ago that you couldn't make today. Yeah.

Half the jokes in them, people would not allow you to make. People's sensitivity levels of things, it's not a joke. It's a very sensitive time and people have to be cautious about what they do. And you're trying to be entertaining and draw a line and push the envelope, but you can only do it so much because the risk is very severe. I think maybe the answer is you have the most woke wrestler possible who's just constantly offended by everybody else and that's just his gimmick. The woke warrior.

He never worries. He's just upset the whole time. He sits in the back and cries. He comes out every week and guts a promo complaining about something. He's just trying to cancel everyone else on the roster. Eventually he'll be a champion because everybody else gets canceled.

Can you walk me through Vince McMahon at this stage of his life? What's he like? Is the battery starting to wear down? Is he still throwing 100 miles an hour?

Absolutely. How many hours of sleep? Like, what's going on with him? He is a machine. You know, it's hard. Sometimes when you talk about it, people go like, well, I can't be good

for him he's getting older and all that stuff like yeah but it doesn't bother him and he's um you know he he probably i guess given the circumstances he's probably sleeping more than he ever has just because of the the travel right yeah no and the way things are so it's a lot less than it used to be but he is still i don't know that he missed a day at the office and and it's a funny thing because it's just who he is he's at the office every single day even when no one was there right that's what he does and um you know but uh he still trains every day you know if you go to the office and you know you go, uh, one or two in the morning, he probably in there training, um, he's just a machine, but that's what keeps him going. You know, he eats incredibly well. He just, you know, he's a very routine and disciplined

person. So his, his diet is on his, you know, uh, All those things are there. It's hard, I think, for people to understand when people are driven to do something. This is his passion still to this day. He's the most passionate person about this that I know. And he will do it. He doesn't get up thinking, I got to go to work today. And I got to make all these calls and I got to do all this stuff. I got to sit with this and do that.

He gets up looking forward to doing it. All these years later, he's dating a new girl in a way. It's still like you can't wait to get up and get on the phone and do this stuff and go. It's awe-inspiring. It really is. and get on the phone and do this stuff and go. And he just, it's awe-inspiring. It really is. Do you think- That you still get there and still have that passion for everything.

Do you think like, you know, 45 years from now when he dies and they, it's like when Secretariat died and they did the autopsy and they realized Secretariat had a heart that was twice the size of a normal horse heart. And they were like, oh, that's why this was. What happens with Vince?

Do they find out like he just didn't have blood or like what are they going to find out? Flair used to joke all the time. We still say it to this day that he saw this special. I don't remember what it was on, but some documentary special. And these people that have this particular gene where they never get sick, they don't get, you know, diseases. They can abuse their themselves, you know, whatever, physically not eat well, not work out, not anything. And they just live long lives. And right up until the time they die at 100 plus years old, they're still just going.

And we used to say all the time, he's got the gene. Rick's got the gene. That's why he's been able to survive everything he is and he's still going and he's still Rick Flair. And if anybody has that gene, it's Vince. And that is something that when he passed, which I'm convinced most of us will be gone before he does, I think they'll find something like that.

Like he had some kind of crazy. Yeah. Third kidney. And endurance thing. Like, it's a funny thing is to some of my kids have it like where they're just like my oldest daughter can be like up all night and just go in and I'm like,

good Lord. She has her grandfather's stamina. It's insane. What's grandfather Vince like? He's awesome. They love him. You know, he's busy and he works all the time. But when there's – Vince is a funny guy that when – he will work and do all the things.

But when it comes down to it, if he needs to be there for something for somebody family-wise or anything else he is the guy that is right there um he's there for the things that they need to do he's there for their events and their moments um whether it's by phone or whether they're in person i mean you know video or whether they're in person or whatever um he's there and he's great and he loves to have a good time with them and um it's it's funny when when with family stuff he's a lot of an observer so he he he likes to sit and watch them do things and and uh you know that kids do and and that's his uh class but they love him and they love having him around and he loves being around them so it's awesome your relationship with him it's got to be one of the most unique relationships of any two men, right?

Where you grow up in the WWE. He's your boss. You're battling him early. You become one of the biggest stars in one of the foundations. But now you're married to his daughter. Now he's the grandfather of your kids. But now you're behind the scenes and he's your boss. And you're just navigating

like basically every piece of Vince at the same time. I don't, I can't imagine there's a lot of people who have another person in their life like that. Nah, I would imagine it's unique. Look, you know, anybody, if you ever read books on it or she shows on it or anything else, family business is difficult, right? Because it's not, you don't walk away from it and you don't, you know, you don't hang up the phone or you don't leave the office and go home and it's done and you forget about it. And it's 24-7 of your life and it's every component of it and it affects every

component of it. So it's very unique and very difficult. And, um, there's a, there's a lot of factors and, and even, um, you know, how, how you react in business to each other because it's family and, um, you can treat your family different than, um, you would treat everybody else. And it's, it, there, there's just so many components to it, you know, um, that it's, it's difficult, but it's at the same point in time while it's difficult. Um, it's wonderful. And we, you know, we all share the same passion for doing this. Yeah.

Um, I think it's the greatest form of entertainment and are so passionate about doing it and being a part of it and seeing it grow for the next generation, whether that be my kids or anybody else. You just want it to continue and to be everything that it can be. We're all hell-bent on doing that.

At some point, while it's difficult, you're all working for the same cause and you know that. What's the biggest argument you've ever had with them? Was it when you were wrestling? Was there ever a time when you guys stopped talking? Probably not to do the Katie Vick angle. I don't know. Yeah, you know, I think for both of us, we kind of get over that.

You know, when we've had moments and you have... This is a lot of testosterone between the two of you. Yeah. And you have moments and you have things that happen and come up and whatever, but then you get past it and you get over it. And look, for me, the other thing too, is for me that while it's all business, if, if it meant the difference between my kids having their grandfather in their life and not, and, and that was the call on business. I step away.

If it became that big of a problem, I would walk. Because it's not worth that at the end of the day. But you know, it's, it's unique family business is tough, but it's awesome. It really is. I wouldn't change a thing. Well, I got to tell you how you've affected my family about, uh, let's say two years ago, my son became enamored with Walter. Oh yeah. And specifically the chest slaps and be in the kitchen, like,

I don't know, making coffee or something. And then he would, all of a sudden you hear the Walter music and he'd be like, Oh no, where is he? And then my son would flat and over trying to chest slap me. And this has been the last two years of my life of him. It's almost like the pink Panther when the pink Panther would get attacked by that dude, my son with the Walter theme. And he's really kind of mastered the chest slaps. Like they hurt and he's smaller and he can go up and you can't like get him

back. Cause it's hard to just slap down so screw you walter is my point plus it just looks bad you run around i was just slapping the baby even if it's that and and let me just tell you something else that that to me is the guys everybody always would say oh my god when big show would chop you it had to be the worst thing ever and i would say no but his hand's so big right like it to me it was different it always the guys that hurt worse for me were the guys with the little hands their hands are hard they chop hard and like whips yeah yeah and there's a smaller surface there and it just would crack in like god you know so i'm imagining his hands aren't ginormous yet so he probably is uh it's probably a lot more painful than a normal chop.

Well, at least I'll give you that anyway. So it doesn't sound like you're complaining that a child is chopping you. Well, I think I told you this when we were on the phone. I have like six months left, I think, before he might be able to beat me in a fight. Because he's like five, three and a half. And he's thick, like he's future wrestler kind of body. And I'm just kind of, he's kind of looking at me now and I can see he's kind of sizing me up.

Like there's a moment when there's going to be the play wrestle where he's going to be like, I think I can take them. So I don't know. I'm just going to enjoy these last six months, but the slaps hurt. And there's been a big shift in the Simmons house. He has this whole library of WWE moves.

He studied since he was age four and I'm just, I'm behind the eight ball on this. Let me know when you need him to come to the performance center. So I roll around a little bit to get them off of you. He's he's ready. Remember he came a couple of years ago. He did a whole entrance. He's ready. No, he did. He had a blast, but you know, the physicality side of it, if I can wear him out of the Performance Center, maybe he won't be doing so much at all. Yeah, that's true.

How has the Performance Center been hurt the last five months? Have you still been able to work with your guys the same way and ladies? No, that's been the craziest part is we really haven't been able to get in there. We've tried to keep the environment as pristine as possible you know nxt is still shot with our partners ron smackdown shot out of the performance center uh we flipped it to a uh a studio so to speak and oh so you haven't been able to work out with them at all no every every square inch of it has been you know used for television plus the other side of that is just medically like, you know,

we were operating on a closed set with essential personnel, but the training side of it was, you know, it's not necessarily essential. So we're trying to limit that. And we've just started back. We have a secondary facility. We've just started back training. You know, it, it even, even that with that to put together the medical protocols that everybody has to go through on a, on a day-to-day basis to even get in the ring and train and do strength and conditioning work and everything else, it's very, very stringent. Now we're getting the Performance Center bagged because of the Thunderdome that will start debuting this Friday on Fox.

How many matches for you this year? Right now, zero. Hopefully it will be zero. You're unofficially retired because you're not retired because you'll definitely wrestle maybe once a year at some point. I just feel like there's a moment where Tal goes, I'm retired, and then you're not. I'd rather just not say it.

And if the right opportunity comes up that everybody believes is right. And I feel like I can do it without it falling apart me or, or the match then. Okay. I would consider it. I'm not at a point yet where I would say like, absolutely not under any circumstances, probably not that far off. But the thing for me that's good is I'm so transitioned over and satisfied with the other aspects of my career, my life, and everything else. I get as much fun and excitement out of watching others do it and succeed at it. So, you know, I always will use this analogy that for me,

NXT for me in a way, and even main roster, watching the guys and the girls, because they all come through there, but it's the difference between as exciting as your own career is, then watching your kids succeed at something, it's a different level of passion and excitement and the pride that you feel so

while it was exhilarating for you i've been there done that side of it now for me the other side is almost better i'd i'd i almost prefer the you know the the helping them uh guide whatever aspects we can to that and giving them those opportunities to go out there and shine. And then, you know, one of the coolest things about doing is getting to do with my best friend. So I'm sitting at gorilla position side by side with Sean, like two giddy little kids jumping up and down because, you know, something that we helped somebody with, or we're watching them succeed or that light bulb go off for the first time, or them have that, that level of success that they only dreamed about. Watching people, because you know what it meant to you, so watching them succeed at that dream is incredible.

And to me at this point, if the opportunity doesn't come again for me to step into the ring and I get asked it a lot, it wouldn't bother me. I wouldn't be like, oh, man, I missed those last few years. I should have done it when I bother me. I wouldn't be like, oh, man, I missed those last few years. I should have done it when I could have, you know. Well, I went to, what was Batista, a year and a half ago? Yeah. I was in the front row with my insane son.

Yeah. And you guys beat the shit out of each other. Yeah. I mean, it was not one of those, it was like, ah, we'll sneak Triple H in the hair, but we'll take it easy on him. You know, he hasn't wrestled in a while. I was like, you guys were like killing each other. And I was actually worried for both of you.

It's one of those things where like you, I think you either have to do it or you don't. Right. It was obvious from that night. Yeah. And I think, you know, we both went in there with that mentality. We just have to do it. Dave wanted to make sure it was going to be his last one. You know, This was him coming to me and saying, this is what I'd like to do. This is how I'd like to do it. And okay, for him. And so I just wanted to hold up my end of the bargain on it and make sure that he had the out that he was looking for. And he did. And it was very successful. And I was happy with that. Um, but you kind of got to just go do it. And if you are at the place where you really can't commit to it anymore, um, you know, when we were

in evolution, uh, every single night we'd be in some small town somewhere and I'd watch flair throw somebody out to the floor and then throw them out there and have them backdrop them on the floor, suplex them on the floor. And I would would every night you get a lot of them and i'd go would you stop doing that like you don't need to do it you don't need to do it but in his mind he still wanted to prove that he could do it and take those things and do those things it was like a a proof point for him for me it's not necessarily a proof point but it's like you're gonna do it if that's what I would have done, then that's what I got to do. I just don't want to be able to go out there and do it. You know, this is fun.

Congrats on the Thunderdome. It was good to see you. Good luck with SummerSlam. SummerSlam. Don't forget though. Don't forget also SummerSlam is Sunday, but Saturday night, NXT TakeOver 30. Oh, you act like I don't know NXT TakeOver is Saturday night. Come on.

I know you do, but you didn't bring it up to promote it yet. Fair. Fair. And window it myself. So now I got to talk about it with Karrion Kross and Keith Lee. One of the biggest matches we've ever done in NXT. And Io Shirai, Dakota Kai. I mean, it's going to be a spectacular night.

People shouldn't miss it. It'll be, this is going to be one for the books. Congrats. Good to see you. Talk to you soon. Good to see you too, man. Yeah. I look forward to doing it again.

We got to do it on a quicker cadence this time. Not five years or whatever. A hundred percent. Thanks. Thanks, man. Tell your son, Hey,

take a shot for me. All right. Thanks to Triple H. Thanks to Joe house. Thanks to Spotify. Don't forget new rewatchables coming on Wednesday. Caddyshack is up there now, and we have one more podcast coming on Thursday night.

See you then. Yes, we can On the wayside On the Bruce I never I don't have