The Bill Simmons Podcast - Lakers-Warriors, Simmons Suspended, Ayton’s Non-max, and Surging Cowboys With Jackie MacMullan and Ben Solak

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares his thoughts on the Lakers’ loss to the Warriors in their season opener, the Astros’ Game 4 ALCS win over the Red Sox, and Dodgers-Braves Game 3 (2:00), before he is joined by Jackie MacMullan to talk about Ben Simmons being ejected from 76ers practice and suspended for one game, causing him to miss the season opener vs. the Pelicans. They also discuss the Suns neglecting to sign Deandre Ayton to a contract extension, expectations for the Warriors’ season, potential “tailspin” teams, Eastern Conference contenders, and more (19:55). Then Bill talks with The Ringer’s Ben Solak about NFC Super Bowl contenders, takeaways from the Bills’ Monday-night loss to the Titans, reassessing the Patriots’ free-agency spending, and more (1:23:35). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Jackie MacMullan and Ben Solak Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hope you're checking out the Prestige TV podcast from The Ringer. I am going to be on there on Thursday with a Kirby Enthusiasm Hall of Fame episode that me and Joe House did. Spoiler alert, Super Dave is in it. Also was on there on Monday. We did a morning show, mid-season awards. Me and Amanda Dobbins and Nora Princiati broke down. The most ridiculous show in any streaming service. So you have that.

And we have Succession podcast coming Wednesday. A deep dive of episode one with Sean Fennessey and Joanna Robinson. And then on Friday, the episode two pre-cap, the pre-game show with Chris Ryan and Big Waz. Check out the Prestige TV podcast. Follow it on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer.

I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer.

Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like.

90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking,

I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive. They have so much stuff. It's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details Mishon Fantasy, Chris Ryan, Paul

Newman, Tom Cruise, Martin Scorsese. It's a really good one. Fun talking about Newman. I don't remember if we'd really dove into Newman before, so we did it on that one. Also, we did a bunch of basketball coverage today on The Ringer. We used The Green Room on Spotify, did some live pods, did

Ringer NBA show, The Mismatch, had a whole bunch of pairings in there. Did an after show tonight after the Lakers-Warriors game. So keep an eye out for all that content as well. I'm really excited for the basketball season. Having basketball and football together is just beautiful. Coming up on this podcast, I'm going to talk a little bit at the top. And then Jackie McMullen and I, we taped that earlier in the day,

but we covered Ben Simmons in the season itself. So that's happening. Then Ben Solak, Terminator, new, uh, relatively new ringer employee, hire, addition, free agent, whatever you want to call him. But he's been killing it on Warren Sharpe's Wednesday show and the ringer gambling show and the ringer NFL show as well. So he came on to break down a little six game report of what contenders we should be watching, who's in trouble, what two and four teams could be a little, little sneaky, dangerous, maybe, and a whole bunch more that is all coming up in one second. I wanted to talk about some of the sports tonight before we get to the rest of the podcast. So I'm taping this part of the pod. It is almost 10 o'clock Pacific time.

Just went through another Red Sox rollercoaster. You knew they weren't going to win all three at home. I was really trying to be realistic about that. These games, eight o'clock, eight o'clock, five o'clock East Coast, back to back to back. And you knew the odds of beating a pretty good Astros team with a really good offense three games in a row. Not high. Also, the Red Sox used up a lot of runs and had a lot of hits in the last few games. That's usually sustainable for 10 to 14 days max.

So you knew the offense was going to come down. But at the same time, Laz Diaz behind the plate, this guy, anytime you see him during the season, it's like an auto moment. It's kind of how I used to feel about Cowboy Joe West. But Diaz, you just know it's,

and he's bad for both teams. It's not even like you can get mad about, you know, things that happen against your team because he's an equal opportunity defender. Jeff Passan was tweeting on ESPN that I think he missed 23 ball strike calls

for the course of game four. And that was, I guess, the highest number of the season. This is not an excuse. I'm just saying when you see him, it's always, you know, it's going to be a disjointed, weird game. I thought both teams got hosed on some ball strike calls, but Evaldi almost got out of the ninth inning

and got squeezed on a call. And all of a sudden, Castro hits a single. Martin Perez comes in. I was ready to do a whole thing if the Red Sox won today. I was ready to do a whole thing about, has the torch been passed for great coaches in Boston from Belichick to Alex Cora? I was ready to do it.

It was like a workshop tape. I wasn't officially going to stand by the take. It was like I was going to basically go to the stand-up comedy club and work out a routine in front of the audience and kind of see how it hits. But, you know, Cora's been lights out. And you think about last year's team versus this year's team. It's not like incredibly different. I mean, it's different, but it's not incredibly different.

It's not top five worst team in the league to a team that has a chance to go to the World Series different. It's not that big of a talent difference. But all the stuff he does in the day-to-day and how he reads his team and how he pushes his guys and even you saw yesterday when Eduardo Rodriguez did the What Time Is It thing after he got Cray out.

Cor was furious. Why are you taunting these guys? These guys are good. Don't do that. Just keep your chin up. I didn't think he was very good tonight. He really went for it in this game in a way that I thought was a little strange. First of all, Pavetta pitched five really good innings.

And then they kind of did the, I'm just getting up from the blackjack table. I've won some money. I'm going back to my room thing with him. He had thinking only thrown 64 pitches, bringing the lefty and out of vino to get through the six, which is fine. But now you're putting basically two innings on Whitlock

and one on Evaldi and Cora's going for the kill, which I can't crush him on. But at the same time, it's one of those things where you're up to one in the series. If it doesn't work, now the momentum is completely shifted. And what happens? Well, Whitlock comes in. Al Tuve, first pitch, eighth inning, home run, tie game.

And then it looks like Whitlock's going to fall apart, but he's been the MVP all season and gets through it. 2-2 game. Red Sox can't do anything. We go to the ninth, he brings in Evaldi. Now you're really cashing in the card here. And Evaldi gives up a banger to Correa. And this is where

I always believe, like, there's little moments during a playoff series that are microcosms of your whole season. The Red Sox defense is pretty rough and they've even double downed on it. Double downed, double downed, double downed on it during the postseason where they're playing Schwarber at first base. And they're basically saying, you know what, we're just not going to be very good defensively. And we're, we're going for offense. We're just going to try to outscore you, basically. It's like watching a basketball team

trying to win 130, 128 games. But the defense, you know, Renfro, who has a cannon arm, and it's simultaneously, he's Dwight Evans with his arm, and he's a complete butcher on a lot of fly balls. And it's been a recurring theme all season. Correa hits a ball over his head.

It was really hard not to think about Mookie Betts in this moment because Mookie chases it down. I'm not even sweating with Mookie in right field on this. Renfro is going backwards. He's going the wrong way. Puts his glove up and the ball just goes by his glove. Now, if he catches it, it's either a very good or a great catch.

I mean, he made it a great catch by the kind of jump he got, but the point is he wasn't catching that. And when you have different spots in the outfield and infield that, you know, Bogarts doesn't have a ton of range. Schwarber first base is a below, below average first baseman. Devers is pretty rocky at third base. And then you have Kike is probably the only above average guy defensively in the entire outfield or infield. Anyway, the ball and tens over a seven game series to find the wrong person a couple of times. And this was one of those times.

It was to the point where Correa thought I was going to get caught. He kind of stops at first base. Anyway, he ends up at second. And then of all the, everything leads to, it seems like he got the strike three on Castro. And guess who misses it? Laz Diaz. But I thought the Astros probably deserved to win today. When you think like, they get nothing from Granke. They get nothing from their starters this whole series. Except for game one, kind of. And then, you know,

Javier comes in, who I was really hoping they were going to use. Yesterday, I had a Javier on my AL keeper team. The guy's good. He threw over 100 innings this year. I think he was at least one strikeout per inning. His only thing is he walks some guys, but he's good. And he was able to hold the fort for them,

keep them in the game. It feels like this series should be 2-2. And you knew it was going back to Houston. So now we got this game five and it's this Chris Sale moment, you know, yet again with this guy where he was the big trade. They put a ton of resources in the trade. Guys who were pretty valuable contributors to the White Sox this season, Moncada and Kopich.

And now you have Sale yet again, needs to come through. We've seen it. We saw in 2018, they were able to get through it with him and he even got the save to win the World Series this time around he's been crap since he got COVID and now it's like one of those things could they win down 3-2 in Houston could they win two games in Houston sure

but they need to win this tomorrow and the thing about these playoff games where it's three in a row and that next one is 21 hours after the last one started. And I'll tell you like emotionally, I'm just a mess because this goes back to the last couple of weeks of the season. This has been a five week grind now of every Red Sox game feels like do or die. And I'm just too fucking old for it. And I, my dad is like, I don't know what's going on with him. I might, might have to, uh, have a nurse in the room with him if this

keeps going, but, uh, playoff baseball. It's great. I wish they could figure out the link thing. I wish they could figure out how to make regular season baseball. Even half as fun. Um, I wish they could make it fun for other people. I enjoyed watching the Dodgers tonight, the big comeback, which I was watching on my phone. My son had a football game and was watching. It seemed like it was over. Got home in time to see the big Bellinger homer. And it was a great moment.

You know, I think the Dodgers, I've said, I've talked about this before. I think the Dodgers have great fans. I really do. I think the LA fans, I, God, don't quote me on this, but I think the Lakers have pretty good fans too, even though I can't stand them.

Just keep it between us. Dodger fans, great fans. And just genuine joy and euphoria when Bellinger goes deep on a ball that's around his head. But you think like, I was texting with a Dodger friend of mine during the game and they're down 5-2,

I think in the fifth inning. They're the champs. You know, you win a tie. Anyone can win one title. If you have a good team and a $230 million payroll, it's, it's relatively realistic. You might win one unless you're the Yankees and you're hiring Aaron Boone for another three years. But, um, the, uh, winning the winning back to back, it puts you in a different class. I remember when the reds did it, when I was a kid in 75 and 76, it just seemed so impressive. And then the Yankees did it in 77 and 78. And it's like, man, those guys, the champs. And then it just didn't happen for a while after that.

And you, you kind of realize it was even more impressive than you thought. But I, the back to back thing is a real thing that. And you kind of realize it was even more impressive than you thought. But the back-to-back thing is a real thing that it matters. It matters historically. It puts a different imprint on the era in your team and how people remember it. And there's that moment in the fifth inning, sixth inning, where it just looked like,

all right, this Dodgers team is probably gonna get swept. And they have their one title in the weird COVID season. It's fine. It's like the 1981 strike season title that they won. It's fine. This coming back, if they can come back

against this Braves team, get back in the World Series and go back to back, that's a whole other level historically. And then there's the Mookie part, which I bat on, I buried it, but then you watch a play like the Renfro play today and you think,

Mookie would have gotten that. Why don't we have Mookie? I like Verdugo, but yeah. Anyway, we'll see what happens with the Red Sox. I still feel like I'm playing a little bit with house money, but at the same time, when you're six wins away from another World Series title or a World Series title,

you really start getting ideas and it feels like even more of a stomach punch when the rug gets pulled out from under you. We'll see what happens. I continue to hate this Astros team and Carlos Correa, I hope your watch breaks. Basketball really quick. I did not see the Bucks dance game.

Ripped through a little of it on DVR and wasn't surprised by anything. The Bucks are better this year. People are eventually going to realize that Giannis is at a different level. I've been saying it for a couple weeks, it's a 1A, 1B thing with him and Durant, but I still think he's the guy you have to take until somebody beats him in a series. He looks like he's 3% to 5% better. He certainly put the time in. Holiday and Middleton are champs now. They're going to have a different confidence,

they have more shooting. And I still think they're the team to beat. I think it's weird that on Fando, they're plus 650 and Brooklyn's plus 350 when we have no idea if Kyrie's ever playing again. Then you go on the flip side, the Lakers have better odds than the Bucs on FanDuel. We watched that Lakers game tonight,

Lakers-Warriors. The Warriors, Jackie and I talked about this. I talked about my biggest regret from the over-under pod last week was going under on the Warriors and over on Portland and how I wish I could reverse them. But that's coming up in the Jackie pod. You watch the Warriors tonight.

Whole bench is locked in. Got to look for that. Even early in the season. Are the guys standing on the bench? Are the guys jumping up and down? Is everybody just seem on the same page? Definitely. And it's been backed up by all the stories about them.

Is the ball moving? Yes. And can they survive a game from their bat survive a bad game from their best player? Yeah. Curry couldn't make a shot tonight. Didn't matter. Poole, who we talked about with Jackie coming up in a little bit,

who looks like a six man of the year candidate. Once they get Klay back and if Poole can kind of stay at the level that he hinted at last season we've seen in training camp but then we saw tonight on top of Bielitsa who I've been waiting

you know on this pod if you've really listened to this pod you know I've liked Bielitsa even though I can't pronounce his name I've liked him forever I've been waiting for him to be on the right team and now it's finally happened and this Warriors team

I know it's opening night. I know we're going to overreact a million times. But what we saw tonight has been what we've been hearing for a few weeks. Then you go on the flip side of the Lakers. Training camp didn't seem like they took it that seriously. They have a bunch of new players. And they're old.

And you have a game like tonight where LeBron and Davis both had good games and nobody else played well. They're just funneling dudes in and out. And you have a game like tonight where LeBron and Davis both had good games and nobody else played well. They're just funneling dudes in and out. And I just think we have to be careful about overreacting with this Lakers team because I think it's going to take two to three months before they figure out who their nine guys are and how the fuck to use Westbrook. Because you watch tonight and it's like, man, this Westbrook thing, it's

even a worse fit than I thought. It's LeBron's team. LeBron has the ball all the time. And we already have seen what Westbrook is like when he's with somebody who monopolizes the ball. Poor Houston, when they had him, it was a complete catastrophe. They finally had to trade Capella in a trade that in retrospect was pretty bad just to kind of clear out the floor so he'd have space to do Westbrook stuff. Lakers aren't going to give him that luxury and there's always going to be people in the paint and he can't shoot. He can't. Can't shoot threes. So I was really dubious that this was going to work and everything I saw tonight continued to leave me dubious.

We'll see. They have a lot of time to figure it out, and LeBron's one of the smartest basketball players of all time. If anyone can figure out how to use a weapon like Westbrook, it's probably him. But I just don't know if he's a winning player, and I've said this over and over and over again. We have very, very,

very, very little evidence that he is an actual winning player who can be on a winning team for four rounds. We've seen it for brief runs. We've seen it in situations where he has the ball a ton and he's putting up big stats. I think it's going to be really hard for him to put up big stats on this team. And can he just be a guy who kind of fades in and out of the game like a cat and gets some of his numbers, but is content to have these games? Like today, where he has six points with five minutes left in the game. Defensively, they're going to have a lot of issues, I think. Because you have Westbrook, who, in my opinion,

is a below-average defensive player at this point and really makes a lot of issues, I think. Because you have Westbrook, who in my opinion is a below average defensive player at this point and really makes a lot of mistakes down the stretch. You have LeBron, who can play defense but is mostly going to take that part of the court off unless it's the fourth quarter. And then you go on down the line, it's just, you know,

they actually had to play Avery Bradley in crunch time. They just picked him up like yesterday. He's out there guarding Steph Curry with four minutes left. So work in progress, but at the same time, it's an old team. I think it's weird. I think they remind me a lot of the 2018 Cavs that just had brought in a bunch of new guys. And they're like, look at this guy.

And we have this guy. And look at this guy. And by January, LeBron was trying to get rid of all of them. Ultimately, they have LeBron and Davis Davis and they're going to be fine, but I don't like the Westbrook trade. You're never going to talk me into it. I would rather have KCP and Kuzma and the flexibility with those contracts. I would have rather had Buddy Heald and, uh, I'm just never, never going to admit defeat on this one. I don't think it made sense. And I think it was a trade you make when your best player is also your GM.

It's not LeBron's job to build a roster. That's why you have other people. It seems like LeBron really pushed for this. Would DeRozan have been better? Maybe. Would Buddy Hield have been better? I think, yeah. I actually do.

And I think they would have been able to keep KCP too, who I think they need defensively. So we'll see. It's a long season. But the big takeaway for me, just from the games tonight, Giannis, at some point,

we're all going to have to realize that he's one of the best 15 to 20 players ever. And he's peaking right now. And we have to take him a little more seriously. I take him seriously. I'm talking about other ever. And he's peaking right now. And we have to take him a little more seriously. I take him seriously. I'm talking about other people. And then the Warriors seem like if they can be above 500 until Clay comes back,

they might have a chance to be really special to watch. So much fun tonight watching the ball move around. And then third, the Westbrook thing, just we have to watch it. I really want to see how they figure this out because I love basketball. I think I'm pretty smart at understanding it. And I don't see it.

I don't see how they're going to make this work. And if they do, God bless them. Anyway, coming up, Jackie Mack and I, we taped it earlier today. We talked about Ben Simmons and DeAndre and a whole bunch of stuff. And then Ben Solak talking football. This is a good podcast.

But first, belatedly, our friends from Pearl Jam. Okay, we're taping this at his 11 Pacific time on Tuesday. So if anything else happens with the Ben Simmons soap opera between this taping and after it goes up as an actual podcast, we apologize. You never know. As the Sixers turn. All right. So here's the recap of what we know right now. Ben Simmons just decides, I guess he's just mailing in practices and disengaged to the point Doc Rivers finally calls him out. Ends up getting kicked out of practice, which I remember in ninth grade, I got kicked out of two basketball practices, which was tough because I was the captain.

Why did you get, what'd you do? I was a head case. I was, I look back and I wish I could take young 14 year old Bill Simmons on, on my knee and just be like, Hey dude, set an example, be a pro. I know you're 14, be a pro. I want more details. I want more details. It was talking back to the coach.

It was my guy, Wally Ramsey. I just, you know, the hey guys gather in and I had to take the one extra shot just to be a dick. Oh, okay. Stuff like that. That's just like,

you just want to backhand that kid. The Ben Simmons thing, it just, it's kind of the same thing, right? He's being intentionally disingenuous, clearly wants to get traded, has no leverage. And I think you've been covering the league longer than I have.

This is maybe the weirdest ongoing soap opera we've had, right? Can you think of a weirder one? Robert Horry, Danny Ainge, maybe? I don't know. Well, that was bad. But you know, it's funny. I don't remember someone being, well, we probably didn't know about it. That's probably the thing. I'm sure there was somebody else that was insubordinate like well, we probably didn't know about it. That's probably

the thing. I'm sure there was somebody else that was insubordinate like this and we just didn't know about it. I mean, how about Latrell Sprewell and PJ? Let's not ever forget that one. Okay. That's kind of important. He choked his coach when his coach said, put a little more mustard on that pass. Okay. That to me is, I mean, that was an assault. Remember the net? I mean, that was bad. So with that one though, that had an immediate end, right? Latrell had to be suspended and then it just became a negotiation with the players union for whether he's getting paid or not. This has no end. I guess what stands out for this story is like, I don't know how it gets resolved because

ultimately I think the Sixers are going to decide you have to go away and then it's going to become a big thing about do they have to pay him or not? Because clearly he can't be on the team, but they also can't trade him because he's submarine is leverage. So how does this play out? What do you think? Well, I think, I think GMs have amnesia always. So remember Jimmy Butler? It wasn't that long ago. Jimmy Butler blew up Minnesota and he was this malcontent and disrupting practice. Remember, he disrupted practice to the point where they had to get rid of him right away too. And everyone's like, oh man, that guy's got mental health issues.

He's not reliable. He's the worst. And he goes to Miami and he's the most model citizen ever known to the NBA. So it's not impossible because I would certainly contend that Jimmy Butler's a hell of a lot more volatile than Ben Simmons. I'm sure you would agree. So I always say these things always look untenable and this is the end. And so often, so many times, it doesn't end up that way. Now, I don't agree with what Ben, how can anyone agree with what Ben Simmons did? I'll tell you what I thought when I heard this this morning or just a few, not that long ago. I'm just really wondering, does Ben Simmons really want to play basketball? Is Ben Simmons just in a place where maybe he just should step away from the game for a while? That's really what I'm wondering. Because this

isn't something a player who loves the game does. It's just not. Like, again, Jimmy Butler went ape crazy on the Minnesota Timberwolves. But it was over the fact that he didn't think some of the guys were tough enough or playing hard enough, right? This is like, you're doing, you're like refusing. Your coach says we're doing a defensive drill and you're telling him no? And then he says to you again, you know, I want you to do this drill. And you say no again. Like, who are you?

Who are you? So, well, he, he lost his teammates. It seems like, Oh God. Yeah.

Yeah. That's another piece. And that happened a while ago. That happened. I mean, like now they're not even pretending to go through the charade of depending. That's right.

I think what I, what I had heard the Ramona's piece a couple of days ago, which had some good inside stuff, including that some Sixers fans, I'm sorry, some Sixers and people around the team felt like before game seven, he was looking for an out. That was interesting. who tested positive maybe. And they were kind of like, ooh, do you really want to play in this game? The fact that that was in the piece, I thought was the most damning thing either way that I've read. Because if I'm Ben Simmons and people repping him

and I read that, I'm like, oh, they hate this guy. And I think that made it like, now he kind of can't go back. I don't know how you come back from that. The Jimmy Butler thing of him being like, these guys don't know how to win yet. They don't know how to compete. I feel like how you come back from that. The Jimmy Butler thing of him being like, these guys don't know how to win yet. They don't know how to compete. I feel like you can come back from that because ultimately he's just

trying to bring these guys to the level that he cares about. He's being a dick. Well, he wanted out. He was trying to get himself out of there. I mean, I think it was the same thing, but it was just a different way to go about it. So that piece was, you know, Ramona's a great reporter. I thought that piece, same thing, had some great insight, but it brings me back to this point.

Is Ben Simmons in a place where he really wants to play? And does he need just a break to figure that out? And if you're a team that trades for him, is that the first thing you do? You just put him on a shelf a little bit and let him get his head right and his priorities right. And if so, then what's the price? You know, like all these deals that we see, right? We see Buddy Heald, Marvin Bangley, a future first. I mean, that's a lot of stuff for a guy

that's pretty precarious right now, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I always thought their best case scenario was Buddy Heald and Halliburton. That ship has sailed. Oh, yeah. I mean, I always thought their best-case scenario was Buddy Hield and Halliburton. That ship has sailed. Oh, yeah. I mean, all the ships have sailed. Yeah, the Minnesota was trying to get him for Beasley and, you know,

a couple contracts and some picks. Beasley's had a terrible training camp. So, I don't even know if you'd want to do that anyway. Right. But that, it feels like Minnesota has sailed. And then, Indiana just gave Brogdon an extension. So he can't even be in any trade. I just don't feel like they have suitors. And then you all of a sudden you start looking at like, could this be Marcus Morris and, uh, you know, a couple

Clippers contracts and that's it for Ben Simmons. Like, is that, are they looking at like 20, 25 cents a dollar? I just don't think Darryl would do that. I think he'd rather just bury him and do a staring contest. Because the thing is, I've been waiting for this to happen with somebody where the player who thinks he has all the leverage, who's already getting paid, who just thinks he can decide what to do, actually picks the wrong fight. And in this case, it's the wrong fight.

Because Doc Rivers certainly doesn't care. He's been in the NBA for four decades. He's not going to back down to this guy. Sixers owners don't care. Darryl had all of China coming after him. He's not, he's fine. He'll, and then Philly, the Philly fans, they're all in it the same way.

So it's like, this is the one situation where I think the player picked the wrong battle. Even the Kyrie thing, there's people will cave in the Kyrie thing. It'll happen. I don't think there's going to be caving in this Philly thing. Well, and I, the one thing too, that we can't stress enough is, you know, how tough Philly fans are, even when you're trying and you're, and you're, you know, struggling a little bit, this kid can, I mean, they'll destroy him. And he was already, and I learned this from the piece I did on Ben a couple of years ago,

already a little sensitive to what Philly fans said about him and thought about him and this whole idea of they like Joel better and all this other stuff. I mean, they'll destroy him now because anyone that was maybe on the fence, which I can't imagine there are many Philly fans left

that that's the case. After this today, how can you possibly even do anything that suggests any inkling of empathy or humanity regarding him? Because he's basically thumbing his nose at you, your team, your coach, your GM, your franchise player, everybody.

Well, and showed up to collect some paychecks, which was pretty transparent. And that's not going to play well either. Well, now, so now you suspend them. So now here's my question. I go back to this again. What if, and I don't have no inside knowledge. This is just me projecting, which is what we like to do. What if Ben Simmons' camp comes out and says, Ben Simmons has some mental health issues. He needs to take some time away. This is no different, as we've said over and over and over in this league, than a torn ACL.

A broken mind is just as important as a broken leg. He needs to take a leave of absence. And the Sixers would have to pay him, wouldn't they? Yeah, if that happens, which I think is a real possibility, I would hope it's genuine because I think that would demean the people who actually battle stuff like that. I couldn't agree more. But I would say, based on everything we've seen that's gone on with Ben Simmons, I think there's some stuff going on with which we knew and we've talked about a little on the pod. But yeah, it seems like there's a lot of burdens with this dude. I think he has some real family issues. And I think it's like the stuff we talked about in the past, the difference between fearful and fearless. And Jan is how fearless that guy is. That guy is unafraid of everybody and everything in every situation. And if something bad happens, he's on to the next play. And Ben Simmons is just the opposite. And it seems like something changed in him between senior in high school and LSU, where he became fearful instead of fearless.

Right. But yet we have, again, examples throughout history. Magic Johnson came out as a rookie in 1980 and he was fearless. He played all five positions. He won him a championship. And then, you know, in Boston Garden, four years later, three years later, he dribbles out the clock and misses free throws, and everyone's calling him Tragic Magic. And then within a year, he wins a championship again.

So it's... But at least he had the baseline of he had had some real success. I guess the issue that the Sixers fans I talk to are like, what are Ben Simmons' wins? What are the things Sixers fans I talk to are like, what are Ben Simmons's wins? What are the things we can point to where it's like, well, he came through that time. It doesn't exist. So when you combine that with all the stuff that's happening now, and we've seen, I mean, you really, you'd have to go back to the cocaine era where you see guys who just tail off, right? But there, it was always drugs or it was always

some sort of terrible knee injury like what happened to Grant Hill or what happened to Penny Hardaway. You go back to the 80s and you go look at some of the basketball. Go look at John Drew. Go look at John Lucas. Go look at Michael Ray Richardson. These guys go off a cliff. Michael Ray Richardson's

the one. Everybody always says he was going to be the missing piece for X, Y, and Z you know all those guys hey go all the way back to Spencer Hayward who tells you know

who tells his story very plainly that he should have won three championships with the Lakers but he's too busy being coked up and God bless him he's clean now and he's

he's a great he's a great cautionary tale and is so eloquent in telling it but but I don't think that's what's going on here I think no no I don't think that's what's going on here. No, no.

I'm not saying that's what's going on. I know you're not. I'm just over the course of NBA history where Elgin Baylor is another one, right? Everybody says Elgin hurt his knee at some point in the mid-60s. Right. It was just never the same. And that's it. So we've seen it with injuries.

We've seen it with drugs. We've seen guys get a little funky like Latrell Sprewell. I think people forget he was first team all NBA in Golden State in the mid 90s I would say he was

probably the third best two guard in the league when he strangled PJ looked like his career was over but he came back I don't I'm really starting to wonder

does Ben Simmons come back in a way that this doesn't that he doesn't drag this around now you could say Sprewell did Sprewell choked his coach,

was a pariah, and was a hero for the Knicks within a year and a half. How about Ron Artest? Destroyed the league with malice in the palace. Gets some counseling. Thanks his psychiatrist

on the podium as he beats the Celtics in Boston for an NBA championship. Right. What happens? So I guess the difference with this is we've pointed to all these different things. It's like injury,

some sort of terrible incident, drugs. I don't remember just a, eh, this guy doesn't really like it here situation snowballing like this has. But see, I guess I would push back that I think there's more to it. That's why I'm arguing this mental health.

Just look in between the lines at some of the things you're talking about, I just think it's a bigger issue. And if it is, it's one that no one will be sympathetic towards, but I will, if that's what it is. We'll see. It seems like a safe bet that that's what it is, because this is bizarre behavior. And also, what he did in the Hawk series was just so unusual from a being afraid of the moment standpoint. We've seen people get the yips, but it doesn't really happen in basketball.

That was just astonishing. Yeah, I still can't believe it. And when you think about it, it was an easy play. I mean, I'm sure if he could do it over, he'd just do it. It's such an easy play. Yeah, I don't know. The mind is a strange thing. And the pressure on these guys from the time they're kids. And look at Ben in Australia. Remember, he grew up in Australia. So he was the next great thing in Australia. Then he makes the

decision to come over to the US, plays for Coach Boyle, that really high powered program and, you know, churning out NBA players right and left. And when I did that piece with Ben about two, three years ago, he was like, look, he can be a really good player or he can be one of the greatest of all time. But he's got to shoot the ball and just take the L until he gets good at it. Just take the L and stop worrying about what everybody else thinks. Well, clearly, Ben Simmons isn't thinking a whole lot of what everybody else thinks today because you would never do this. So, you know. Let's talk about a couple of people who, and you knew one of them, our guy Red, people who looked at assets that were in distress for some reason.

Right. And always pounced. Right. So Red, like the Bill Walton situation. Right. In the mid 80s where he looks at that and he's like, ah, the guy actually played a lot of games for the Clippers. Seems like he wants to come here.

Yeah. And I'm mad at Cedric Maxwell. It seems like a distressed asset. And I'm mad at Cedric Maxwell. And I want to take it out on Cedric. He gets the Kermit Washington trade, gets Kermit Washington from the Lakers because he sees an asset.

Even though Kermit Washington suspended and just almost killed Rudy Topjanovich. And he looks at it and is like, that guy can rebound. Yeah. And I guess Riley would be the modern version of Red. Yeah, Riley's done a good job of that. But would Riley look at this Ben Simmons situation

and be like, hmm, distressed asset, I should step in. I don't feel like he would. I think he would be. See, I think Pat thinks we joke about the heat culture all the time, don't we? We joke about the heat culture, right? And Ben Simmons sort of fits the profile of the heat culture because it's team first.

We don't take 25 shots a game. We really stress defense and toughness. And so in a lot of ways he would fit that profile. But, but if you're, if you're Pat Riley and you have the team you have, which I think is one of the good sleeper teams to talk about as you go into the season,

I really look pretty good preseason. I mean, I think to me it's all about Tyler Hero and what happens with Tyler Hero. Like Tyler Hero to me last year, I don't know, his numbers were okay, but I just, I was waiting for like the big jump. It didn't come. Didn't happen. So maybe it comes this year and then that really changes how they are.

And so if you're Pat Riley, why are you going to mess with all that? What are you going to give back to take on Ben Simmons? Probably something like a Tyler Hero that you're pretty excited about. A known quantity that you've been molding now for two years, two plus years. I also think he would

just stay away. I don't know. I just think Pat takes on almost anything. I don't know. That's just me. I might be wrong. I haven't talked to him about it.

Seems like he defaults toward the competitiveness thing with the distressed asset. Like Butler is somebody he just loves, right? Right, right. He's just like, oh, this is my kind of guy.

Yeah, he certainly wouldn't understand this, but who would? And yet, who would have understood the way James Harden behaved? It was disgraceful the way James Harden behaved last year, but everybody was falling all over themselves trying to get him because he was so talented. Now, Ben Simmons is just not in that category right now

because he's a distressed asset that you're wondering, will the value ever regain itself? James Harden, the only issue was the way he blew his way out of Houston. It wasn't, you know, he showed up a little overweight, whatever. But there was no issue about, is this guy an MVK caliber player? Yes, he is I mean right now do we even know

what Ben Simmons is right I the Harden thing as we get a little distance and you start hearing little tidbits here and there which I'm sure you have

it definitely seems like the owner was a bigger part of that than I think I realized at the time I think there was I think for Harden I think there was some I want to get away from this guy I do I realized at the time. I think there was, I think for Harden, I think there was some, I want to get away from this guy.

I no longer want to be in this organization. Peace to it. That I don't, I think he was careful about not getting out, but I think that was a real thing. I'm not defending what he did because I hated it. I hate when people shit on fans like that,

but I do feel like the stuff that was broken for him was more than just this team isn't a championship contender anymore. I I do feel like the stuff that was broken for him was more than just, this team isn't a championship contender anymore. I think it was like, I miss the stability of the old ownership. We'll see. The owner has a bunch of new pieces now, so we'll see how he does. Yeah, Lamar Alexander was a... Did I just call him Lamar Alexander? Leslie. Remember Lamar Alexander? He ran for president.

Good God, help me. Leslie Alexander was a sneaky, sneaky good owner in this regard. Oh, yeah. He paid lots of money and got out of the way. He was very sneakily philanthropic. Now, was he a little hands-on? Was he involved? Yes.

But he was one of those owners that you didn't know. I mean, Daryl knew how good it was with him. I'm not sure everybody else did. I want to talk about another owner, Big Shot Bob Sarver, but we're going to take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't

win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. How can you be sure your child is making the right decision when choosing a university? The smart approach is to look at the facts, like the fact that York U graduates have a 90% employer satisfaction rate. That's because across its three GTA campuses, York U's programs are strategically designed

to prepare students for a meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. Talking about owners. Our guy, Bob Sarver. I was flagging this all off season. Everybody thought I was just starting shit.

Looking at the 16, 17 years of Sarver history and people are telling me that he's going to show out max contracts for Booker and Aiton, a big contract for Chris Paul, and then take care of McHale Bridges. And I was suspicious. I just, it didn't add up to me. We've never seen him spend

money like that before. What we saw happen over the last week or so, he did a deal with Bridges for $90 million for four years, which I liked. I think he's more than a 3 and D guy. I think he's actually- He's one of those guys. Yeah, he's one of those guys, Bill, that could take off. To me, it's a little Jalen Brownie. I don't know if he'll be as good as Jalen Brown, but I think he's closer to Jalen Brown than typical 3 and D guy. So I know Zach was a little more down on it, which I was surprised by. I look forward to arguing about it with him. But I thought that was a really fair price because if he gets in the open market,

I'm sorry, he's getting $100 million, $500 million, $10 million for four years. He just is. Right. And then they took care of Schammett, which I was surprised by because... Well, that's what surprised me. He was borderline unplayable last year in that Brooklyn series. And I think Kyrie was just out on him.

And they gave him four for 43. But then for whatever reason, held the fort with Aiton. And I just feel like... I would have taken Aiton over both of those guys as much as I like Bridges, right? If it's like Aiton or those two, I'm taking Aiden. Yeah, and Shamm.

I mean, definitely over Shamm. And again, I don't want to dump on him. But the thing that was interesting about Aiden to me, so it's almost like, does Sarver have old information, right? So the old information told you, don't pay big money to big men because they're no longer part of the landscape. They can't succeed. You can't succeed and win with a big man.

Well, we turned that on its ear last season, didn't we? I mean, we pretty much did. And Aiton was one of the leading candidates for that. He made a huge difference in what they did. And we haven't even begun. What he did against Joker was like, that alone is why he should get the best. And we haven't even begun to see what he can accomplish.

So this was such a fail on my, I mean, such a fail. My God. A colossal fail. But how about this? Sell the team if you're not going to pay Booker an eight in the max. Why do you want a team? Just sell it. You'll get like $3 billion.

Right. What's the point of having the team? Exactly. And it's interesting that they ponied up big time for Chris Paul. Now, I would have re-signed Chris Paul, but I would have been a little more judicious in how much I paid him, wouldn't you? Well, Rosillo kicked the tires on that one. He said it's basically two years guaranteed, third year partial guaranteed, and then the fourth year is kind of a team option. Okay. Feel better already. Good. No, but it's still, it's a hefty price for somebody

who's going to be basically 40 by the time he's done. Yeah. And he's had injuries. He's had injuries, including last year during your run. And I think Sarver was probably looking at the totality of all these contracts together.

Not this year, but next year. And it's a little James Harden, Sam Presti-ish where they just... There was a move they could have made and they could have gotten cute and they got cute and it was what it was. Now he's atoned for that in a lot of different

ways since, but the thing I don't get with this it seems like they're hanging the Giannis series on eight in a little bit where it was like he was bad in that series, right? But he also had no backup center. He's going against this guy who was having this out of body athletic. Yeah. All world. One of the best, I mean, what he did those last two rounds is up in the history of the league for

a four week performance. Right. And I don't think anybody's slowing him down. And I just feel like, I think Aiton is an anomaly as a center. His ability to move around on defense the way he does. It's basically, it's like, I don't know if you've seen Evan Mobley on the Cavs, but it's very similar. Like to get a guy with size who can, who can guard guards and protect the lane.

Yeah. Go laterally. That's like a borderline unicorn and they're going to risk this. So do you think he stays? What's going on here? I don't. I don't. I don't know. I mean, I guess we have to see what happens this year. Do they? So I know people are very bullish on the Suns as they should be because Bridges hasn't, we haven't seen Bridges ceiling. We certainly haven't seen Aiton ceiling. We could name all,

there's a bunch of guys on that team that we haven't, I don't think seen their ceiling. So I like their chances, especially in a very uncertain West. And my God, the Lakers are so old. And I know, I understand why people keep picking them, but they're so old and things go wrong and it takes longer to fix them. Like if old players get hurt, it takes twice as long for them to come back, all those reasons. So I think really a lot will depend on how well Phoenix does, where they fare, and how Aiton plays into that. Because then maybe if they come back and say, okay, we'll give you the max now, does he thumb his nose and say, screw you, I'm out of here?

I think a lot will depend on how the season goes. I'm sure right now, his reps and himself, he's like, yep, you're going to lose me, I'm done. But again, I always take the long view. Times change. Feelings change. Events come and go. Players come and go. Lots of things. Well,

I picked Phoenix to make the finals. I have Milwaukee and Phoenix. I have a rematch finals. Okay. Interesting. I thought Phoenix was the safest bet in the West. I think they'll be better. The only caveat would be is if Chris just physically just kind of starts to get old. We saw with Ben Roethlisberger the last couple years,

one of those situations where we're just not the same guy. But Aiton was a big piece of that. I don't understand this one. Well, nobody does. If we were ranking the top 20 assets in the league, I'm not saying best parts. I'm just saying assets. I think he would have to be one of the top 20 because there's like three of him. And it's like disability where you can just have him as your only big. You can put anyone else around him. You're not going to get hurt defensively. He can handle most of the rebounding.

He can protect the rim for you. And he's really competitive. Like that was the thing that jumped out last year, not just in the playoffs, but in the regular season too. Like he got better as the year went along. He really gave a shit. I think he seems like an incredible teammate.

Yeah, they love him. He's like 22 or 23, whatever he is. That's the part I don't get. And he was Chris Paul's whipping boy and he took it and loved it and embraced it and said, give me more. All of that is true. I will say this. So if you looked at it just on the surface, is DeAndre Ayton a max player?

Well, maybe not technically. Who is? Well, that's my point. That's exactly it. Everybody gets overpaid. And then within three years, they're underpaid because that's how the sport works. That's how the cap works.

And I think we're, you know, I know the pandemic and the work stoppage because the pandemic affected all the financials. But the fact remains, it's always the same. You always think, oh man, this is a lot of money to pay him. And then five years later, you're like, wow, that really wasn't so bad after all. That's how it always is. Right. Well, the thing is when teams get into trouble with these long

contracts, it's a certain type. It's usually somebody that got the contract in their late twenties. Like Kevin Love's a good example. Yep. He got that contract, but he had been, you know, LeBron had just left. He'd been in the league for 10 years and you're paying somebody who the league's starting to shift a little bit away from what he does. We'd been in the league for 10 years. And you're paying somebody who the league starting to shift a little bit away from what he does. We don't have the traditional power forwards in the same way. And that's a contract we could have predicted. Hmm. They might regret this three years from now. Drummond was another one. That was a panic extension from Detroit because the guy was on his way up. There was no evidence at all that he was a winning player. But they were like, well, if we lose him,

what are we going to do? That's where you get in trouble. I thought that's where the Knicks were potentially with Randall. Randall. Where if they had given him this $220 million five-year extension or whatever based on just that last year, I think that would have been really dangerous.

I don't feel like there's any danger with the Aiton thing. He's had no health issues. I'm convinced he will continue to get better and have a chance to win a title this year and next year. So what are you messing around with? Yeah, because he's Sarver. You already got your own answer there.

And I remember thinking after I wrote a lot about the Suns last year, I guess we all did, thinking all right, well, give Sarver his due. He sat back and let these guys be themselves. He's done this all. It's all worked out. And then when I saw the Chris Paul numbers,

I'm like, wow, okay, okay. But not so much. Well, I told you me and Zach did a pod together, and I predicted if Mikael Bridges didn't get signed that I thought there was a chance he could be available in a trade. And I thought they were going to pay Aiton and I thought they were going to not extend Bridges. And I thought there was a possibility of like,

you now flip him into a younger 3&D guy and that's how you save money. I did. I got to admit, as you know, I've gone on the trade machine from time to time. Yes. Once in a while. Once in a while. I've been doing the dabble. Well, you haven't done it in about 10 minutes. Do you want to take a break and do it again? Yeah, Kyle, let's take a break. I did go on the trade machine and try to figure out, all right, let's say they don't want to pay the max and they want to patch something

together that makes sense. Who is that? And really the only thing I could come up with was if, if it was like a miles Turner and pick situation where they're basically downgraded miles Turner, they have him locked in at the 18 million instead of the 35 million, eight and we'll cost. Eventually they get some picks to replenish. I'm not, I'm not reporting this.

I'm not saying I've heard it from anybody. I just went around the league. I was like, what trade could they make that would resemble what they have as a team that wouldn't affect this season, but would also give them flexibility? And that was the only one I could come up with. But don't you think Sarver is gambling that

when it all gets said and done, if Aiton has a great year, then he'll just say, all right, I'll give you the max and the kid will take it. That's what I think is happening here. Yeah, but when you mess around with the restricted... I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree. It's just risky. I'm just talking about Sarver's

mindset. I get it. Because there's been times when... Because remember, if he's restricted, they match, Bill. They can match. But it might be a thing where Ayton decides, I want to leave. There's two things I don't like about it. One is it hurts their ability

to, if somebody, like let's say the Knicks just come in and there's like, here's two years max, your option for year three. And now the Suns, who could have locked down Ayton for five years, they only get them for two. Like that would worry me. The other thing is I genuinely think they have a chance to win the title or

come close this year. I think they're the safest bet in the West. I have the same concerns about the Lakers that you do. I think they're relying on too many new pieces, too many old guys. LeBron's in year 19. I don't just, I just said,

I'm sorry to interrupt. Just said that he doesn't want to sit out again. I mean... Right. Well, and then Westbrook, we just have no evidence that this guy can be on a team that wins for four straight rounds.

We don't have the evidence. We don't. So I think the West is a little more open than people think. And I thought Phoenix was best position because if Shamit can give them some shooting with the Cam Johnson-Bridges combo, if campaign can be

a decent backup for them, if they get anything out of Jalen Smith, anything. Right. Right? Well, the two cams were great little,

you know, that's why their team was, I thought, so good was because they could go to their bench and get some in. Campaign at one point when Chris Paul was out.

People forget that. He was really good. He had some big games for them. They're deep. Well, and then my guy Booker, I said that joke in the Suns fans because they thought I didn't like him for years, but he did Team USA. As you know, I love when people do Team USA. I always feel like they have a little 10% bump the next year

being around all those guys. But I just thought they were the safest bet. Now they're compromising that. Aiton seems like a good guy. I don't think he would go Ben Simmons on us or anything. Oh, no, no, no. I just created the verb. Yeah, there we go.

Simmons. He won't Simmons us? No, I don't want to. It can't be Simmons. I don't want to be attached. It's got to be Ben Simmons. I think he'll probably put his head down and feel bad about it. But I was surprised Chris didn't say anything.

He might. He might. Remember, he's the head of the Players Association. Although he isn't anymore, is he? He isn't anymore, right? No. It's now a CJ McCollum, Grant Williams ticket. Okay.

But it's really still Chris Paul in my mind. And I love Grant Williams. Just saw Grant Williams at a charity event. Kid's amazing. Made all sorts of donations to this charity event. Yeah, he's a good kid. I don't know what his future is in Boston, but he's a really solid kid.

It's going to be waving a towel this year. Do you think Chris, any of this is Chris saying, don't give this guy the max? No. Okay. I'd be shocked by that. I'm shocked by that. Yeah saying, don't give this guy the max? No. Okay. I'd be shocked by that. I'm shocked by that.

Yeah, I don't think that's... Yeah, because what would he care? He wants them to just spend money on whoever. Yeah, and plus, that's not Chris's MO, really, I don't think. Well, I didn't know if they maybe... I'm just trying... It's so nonsensical to me.

I'm just coming up with every possible conspiracy theory. But the answer is right in front of you. It's Robert Sarver. Come on now. Don't make is right in front of you. It's Robert Sarver. Come on now. Don't make this more complicated than it is. So I did over-unders with Rossellon House last week. We guessed the over-under win total from Vegas for every team. And a week later, I have two regrets,

and they're kind of tied to each other. Okay. Portland's over-under was 44 and a half wins. I liked that I went over. Golden State's over-under. Over? Well, wait. Golden State's over-under was 47 and a half wins. I liked that I went over. Golden State's over. Over? Well, wait. Golden State's over under was 47 and a half wins.

I went under. A week later, I would flip that if I could do that over again. I would go over Golden State and I would go under Portland. I have a lot of regrets. We were texting about stuff we want to talk about. And you really want to talk about Golden State. What are you hearing? What do you like?

What's the buzz? Yeah. So I've been talking to people there who've been in training camp. And they're just so talk about Golden State. What are you hearing? What do you like? What's the buzz? Yeah, so I've been talking to people there who've been in training camp and they're just so excited about the vibe. And that's not surprising, I don't think, because we talk about the heat culture, but the Golden State's culture is pretty good.

Again, remember you and I were talking about Draymond Green. What's the fallout? No fallout. It's Draymond Green. It's Draymond being Draymond. On we go. I'm sure they weren't happy about it, but who's talked about that in weeks?

Nobody. But people are watching Jordan Poole. Everyone's talking about Wiseman, which I understand, but Jordan Poole, we keep talking about this little group of players, right? He's another one to me that could just take off. He's a six-man-of-the-year possibility, in my opinion. 100%.

100%. So if he does take off, just think about how that solves a lot of things for the Warriors. Steve Kerr apparently has just been really energized with these guys. I think part of it is seeing Klay back now. And what we won't know, Klay looks good by all accounts, but it doesn't matter until he actually gets out there. But they just need one of those young bigs to kind of make it happen. So I think people are sleeping on Golden State.

I really do. One of the things I saw had them ranked 13th in the league. I think that's low for them. I mean, because are we forgetting about Steph Curry or what? My fear with them was I was dubious of the Klay return until

maybe mid-January. And then it's like, when he comes back, is he 100%? I just felt like people were factoring that in. So when I saw the 47.5, it's like when he comes back is he 100% I just felt like people were factoring that in so when I saw the 47.5 it's like alright they're gonna go 48-34 but we know they're getting

50 games out of clay that seems ambitious but the thing is like if Poole can be good right away if they get three healthy auto I have a lot of Warriors fans

in my life who are like auto Porter, steal. I know you hate hearing that. I know you do. No, I always liked him. He just couldn't stay on the floor. But he's not a bad guy.

I certainly would have taken him in the Celtics rotation the last couple of years. He's had productive moments. Very serviceable. They have some young legs on the bench. There's no way Wiseman's going to be worse than he was last year. And then you think Curry's still

at the peak of his powers. He has to be considered, I think, like how I always discount the Packers now with Aaron Rodgers. And I was wrong. The Packers are five and one. It's like, at some point, it's just stupid to discount these guys who are these generational greats. I still own you, B. Simmons. I still own you. Oh, my God. That was such a great moment. Good for him. You know, the other thing with this Warriors point, Curry, who just had a shitload of miles there, right? From even 2014, they have the really hard series against the Clippers.

But then 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, it's 100 games every year. 2020, it's COVID year, step back, whatever. It's 100 games every year. 2020, it's COVID year. Step back, whatever. It's almost like a regrouping. Steph's hurt anyway. Yeah, but it takes a whole year. I think that whole year makes a difference. And then last year,

it's basically they don't have the playoff thing either. So Steph's got like super duper fresh legs now. You know, I was talking to Adande last week about he was saying like the LeBron, when LeBron wins that bubble title. And Adande made the point, and I think he's made this on other platforms, so I don't apologize for plagiarizing it, even though he runs a big journalism program at Northwestern. He was saying that was weirdly the best thing that could happen to LeBron because he had all this time for his body to rest, regroup, got in sick shape. And then basically it's this two-month sprint in the bubble or two and a half months, which LeBron had no miles from the season at his age. This 100-game thing, when you get to somebody who is LeBron's age, I think we take it for granted because of how growing the NBA is.

And then on the flip side, when somebody doesn't have to do that for a couple years, we don't realize how beneficial that is for them. And I think with the Curry thing. That's my point with the Curry thing. Yeah, you can play an extra quarter of a season. That's what Bird used to talk about that all the time. The extra miles and all those games and they were, you know, playing the Sixers and how he used to say the Lakers had it so much easier because they're grinding through the box and the Sixers and all the grind.

You know, that's the other way is the style of play and who you're playing against and what the cost of that is, which isn't probably quite the same today as it was all those years ago because the games refereed so differently. You can't get away with half the stuff you could get away with before. It's my one fear with Giannis, just because I think there was a lot of miles on him last year with that shortened season and then everything he had to do those four rounds. Now we're just kind of running the season back. They have a bullseye on them now.

I like the team they have a lot more this year, I think. I'd like to grace it out. I thought that was kind of sneaky. I thought extending him was smart, but they have a little more shooting. Holiday will be better. I'm amazed that they're not the favorite in the East, that Brooklyn still is. I'm amazed people just aren't talking about Giannis. You mentioned the mileage, but the one thing Bud did with him in the previous years was there was the one year no one on their team averaged more than 29 minutes a game, including Giannis.

So they've been prepared for the long haul for a while. And look, he's in the prime of his career. He doesn't even want to have these discussions, right? Most of the great ones don't. They don't want to talk about resting and all that. But they managed him very, very well during a regular season. And that was the big switch they made last year, right? We're not going to play for the regular season. We're going to play for the post season. And Drew Holiday, I'll predict, will be an entirely different player this

year because not everybody's looking at him, right? Oh, we brought Drew Holiday and now we can win. If we don't win, it we brought Drew Holiday in. Now we can win. If we don't win, it's because Drew Holiday didn't do all these boxes we wanted him to check off. That's just not the narrative anymore. They've won the championship. He's going to come back in with another year. Such a smart player, such a versatile player.

And I do think at times for him, he let the pressure. I'm not saying he couldn't handle pressure. I'm just saying he put too much pressure on himself and asked himself, I think at times to do too much for that team. All that's gone now. I think he's going to, he's going to, you know, relax, have a great year for them, be even more effective than he was the previous year. It was awesome in the Olympics. Yeah, he was. I thought that was pretty telling that he was more important and valuable to that team when Dave Millard was. And then you go back to the New Orleans piece of it, which, you know, and they're just...

What's going to happen with New Orleans? Good Lord. Like, how about all of a sudden... The Zion thing is alarming. Well, that's what I mean. Like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, yeah, by the way, Zion's got... Yeah, he's hurt. He won't be playing. I'm like, what?

I'm telling you. And I know he's big and strong and that's all part of his game, but that dude's got to lose some weight. He just doesn't. I'm not saying he's fat. I'm not saying anything of that. If you want to have staying power, and Joel Embiid will tell you all about it

and how hard it is to lose when you're a big guy, to shed that weight. It's hard. It's hard. But I think Zion, he wants to have a nice long career, should really consider it. Well, you know who the best person to talk about that is, it's hard. It's hard. But I think Zion, he wants to have a nice long career, should really consider it. Well, you know who the best person

to talk about that is, is Barkley. Yeah. Remember when he went to Phoenix and shed the 15 pounds, not only to help him from basketball, but it's just, it gets really dangerous carrying that weight around

for stop and start stuff. You're putting more pressure on the lower half of your body, which is bad. I mean, my favorite Barkley story of all time is when he tried to get too fat for the Sixers.

The Sixers, Harold Katz told him, I don't want you to be fat for the draft. You get skinny. He's like, okay, okay. And he was like working out and trying to get skinny.

And then he found out from his agent who ended up putting all his money right up his nose anyway, actually. But anyway, said to him, no, no, no, listen. They don't have, they only have this, you know, it was different. There was no salary cap, no rookie salary cap back then. They only have like, I forget what it was, 600,000. We don't want them to draft you. So he and his agent went to Denny's

like three times a day and ate three big slams a day. And he gained like seven pounds. This is a true story. Like in the 48 hours before the draft and they saw him and they're all like, what the hell? And then they went and drafted him anyway, because they ended up trading someone and freeing up the money. But Barkley's weight fluctuation, I mean, think of him at the end in Houston, not a good look, right? But when he was right, you know, early years in Philly and those prime years in Phoenix, he was unstoppable. And I know it's hard for big guys because it is. I think it's very hard, but it'll change how you go about things. And I think Zion should really consider it. I mean, I don't know if he has a

nutritionist or whatever, but if I'm the New Orleans Pelicans, I'm going to change his body so he can play a really long time. But haven't they been trying to do this for two years? I don't know. I feel like they were pretty focused on it and it just seems like it's going the direction it's going. I also think when people hit their early 20s, your body changes a little bit, mid 20s. You have these cycles where you just can't eat the same way and do stuff the same way. Think about Kevin Love, how he reconstructed his body it was unbelievable I remember I did a story on it and the stuff that he eats it's like oh my god you poor thing you know rice chicken you know salads everything right down to the t was measured and that's how he revived his career when you know

because he understood the game was changing and big men weren't going to be the same and he wanted to be that that guy that could be stop and pop three-point shooter and going to be the same, and he wanted to be that guy that could be stop-and-pop three-point shooter and need to be more mobile, and he did it. I mean, people should do a before and after of Kevin Love, what his body looked like. But the sacrifices he had to make were significant. Significant. I have an incredibly hot take for you.

I liked fatter Kevin Love from a basketball standpoint. I thought he got every rebound. That's interesting. That version of Kevin Love was, I thought he got every rebound. That's interesting. That version of Kevin Love was, I think, other than Moses. Oh, Moses. I love Moses.

And Rodman. I'm going to forget somebody, but Moses and Rodman, to me, are the two best rebounders I've ever seen in person. Love was, early young Love

was an unbelievable rebounder and especially an offensive rebounder. I don't really remember since Rodman seeing somebody like that who just destroyed the boards. Right, but part of that is just because you moved him

away from the basket, though. Yeah, no, it is. It was just hard to get around him and he knew how to box out. He knew how to use his body and it was a little like Moses. Remember, I wrote about this in my book.

Moses used to use his ass. He used to just ram his butt and send people flying backwards. And then all of a sudden, he was getting another offensive rebound. I thought- He was a big dude. He was a scary dude in real life.

Wasn't he, Moses? Oh my God. I was scared to death of him. Did I tell you this story about the Hollywood Squares? Did I ever tell you that story about Moses Malone? So one day, somebody told me, I forget, one of his teammates, and he played for a bunch of teams near the end of his career.

And I said, I can never get Moses Malone to talk to me. And they go, oh, he doesn't like the media. I go, I really want to, you know, it was like a challenge for me. And they go, ask him about Hollywood Squares. I go, what? They go, yeah, he was on Hollywood Squares. So I'm like, okay. So he's playing for the Bucs, playing in Boston.

So I go in there, I like muster up all my courage. I introduced myself for like the eighth time. He's barely looking at me. And I said, hey, Moses, is it true? You were on Hollywood Squares? And all of a sudden he kind of looks up and he brightens up a little bit. And I go, yeah.

And I said, and from what I understand, the question was, what does the country spend more money on? Food or healthcare? And he's laughing. He said, yeah. And I said, and the answer Moses Malone gave was, well, for me, it's food, but I'll say health care. That was his answer out of Hollywood Squares. So I think I have bonded. He's laughing. He's like, yep. I think I was working for Sports Illustrated. I can't remember. I write this whole

thing up. I am just so pleased with myself. And, you know, me and Moses Malone are buddies. So the next time he comes to town, I go up to say hi to him. And he, in essence, says to me, fuck off. Oh my God. So anyway, that's my Moses story. Yeah, he was a grizzled by the media guy, I think. I think he had probably had some bad experiences

over the years. But you know what? Everybody that you ever talked to adored him. Like Charles Barkley cries. He cries when he talks. Because Moses Malone was the first person that said to him, hey, you're fat. You got to lose 20 pounds or you're never going to make it. Moses was the first guy to say that to him when he got to the NBA. Yeah. We're taking one more break and then we got to talk Celtics for five minutes. All right. Two more teams, then we're going to go.

We mentioned the Blazers in the previous segment, but just quickly, if you're going to look at a team in either conference that could potentially go in a tailspin where guys could become available, I don't think Philly's a tailspin team unless Embiid gets injured. But if Embiid, you know, he's missed a ton of games over the course of his career.

There is a world in which the Simmons thing's a disaster. Embiid has another injury and all of a sudden we're like, wow, are the Sixers going to be a play-in team? Really though? But see, I just think guys like, again, I keep mentioning these breakout guys. Tyrese Maxey, another breakout guy in my mind. That guy could be something really special. You don't agree? I just think if Embiid has had multiple situations in his career

where he'll just miss 20 games, and if that happens for them early on with the Simmons thing, I think it could be dangerous. The East is better. Portland is clearly... Yeah, sometimes not. Out of all the teams, the only other one I would say is the Clippers

just because I think people are kind of forgetting the Kawhi's not on the team part of this. And then it's like Paul George and a bunch of roll guys, basically. But the Portland thing, I like their starting five, potentially. They still have two small guards. They still don't have a backup point guard.

Their bench looks really iffy. And it's one of those things that if they start out 6-9, 7-10, it's going to start. The Dame stuff will start. It's starting already. It's starting already because they had such a bad preseason. I mean, remember, this is a team Portland last year. I'm pretty sure of this.

I think they averaged like 11 turnovers a game, Bill. They were number one in the league in turnovers in a positive way. They gave, you know, they turned the ball over the least of any team in the league. Their first three preseason games, they were turning the ball over like 20, 24, 26 times a game. Like, what is that? Where did that come from? And the whole thing has always been about Portland, at least the last couple of years. Yeah, we know you can score, but will you even bother to stop anybody? And again, very little evidence of that in the preseason. And Chauncey talked about it being a priority and all that. But, you know, I don't know, man. I didn't really see it. Larry Nance Jr., that's why you brought him there, right? To shore up your defense and stuff? I think. Isn't it?

And the new coach thing. You know, sometimes the new coach comes in and it's like the guy's never had the job before. Maybe he's not going to be that good. It takes a while. Stotts was frustrating, I know, for a lot of the Blazer fans, but had a lot of success too. And they made conference finals with him. Stotts was a great A.

Stotts was a great A NBA coach. He just was. Prepared, knew his players, his finals with him. Stotts was a great NBA coach. He just was. He prepared, knew his players, his players trusted him. He's one of those underrated guys that, you know, Blazer fans could be frustrated all they want. They should have been frustrated a little more with the front office, perhaps. So if you had to pick somebody to tailspin in the West

and your choices were Clippers, Nuggets, Warriors, Blazers? Well, definitely not Warriors and Nuggets, no, because I think Michael Porter Jr. is going to do a nice job of keeping things afloat. I mean, Jamal will be out quite a while, but I like their team. I like the way they draft. I like the way they do things. Jokic is going to have another great year. So no, I would never vote those two. So, you know, I think you could sign me up for the Blazers. I just have questions

about their defense. And, you know, and CJ McCollum, I mean, he had a decent preseason, but I mean, I think Anthony Simons, wasn't he the leading scorer in the preseason for them?

And I mean... Well, now they're trying to get the Nasir little thing going. The Portland always has some guy on the bench like, this is the year, breakout time. Right, right, right. So maybe he's one,

maybe he isn't. You know, Nurkic, can he stay healthy? If he can, people forget how helpful he is, but he hasn't really been healthy since what, 2019? Not really.

I'm more dubious of the Clippers if I had to pick. Really? That's interesting. Yeah, because I just think that that team was built around the identity of

we have Paul George and Kawhi. And we have a bunch of guys that supplement those two. But ultimately, this is, you know,

if you just took away Jalen Brown from the Celtics and he's just gone, they'd be in trouble. If you took away Tatum, we wouldn't even be talking about them as a 500 team. And I think Kawhi's the Tatum in this scenario. I think people are overrating Paul George's ability

to be the focal point of a 45 to 50 win regular season team because we couldn't even, in Indiana, he couldn't even handle that. You know, once it became his team. He got close, though. No, but near the end, when it was like he was the best player and then it was a major drop-off,

that team was irrelevant. And I don't understand why this Clippers team also wouldn't be irrelevant unless the Reggie Jackson thing is real. Unless the Terrence Mann thing is real. Well, he's another one of your... Let's put that guy on the list too.

Break out possibilities. Like him a ton. Yeah, I do too. I'm just saying they need some things to happen. Yep. Where guys who weren't as good last year as they were in the playoffs then have to keep that going.

And the division's tougher and the conference is tougher and teams like Minnesota and Sacramento even just have more talent. But I just think you just mentioned a young guy like Terrence Mann

that can lift you up. If you're looking at the Blazers roster, which I don't have in front of me, and you're saying that Anthony Simons might be the breakout. Or Little. Or Little would be the other one.

Or Little. Okay. I mean, I'm taking Terrence Mann in that scenario. So those are the young guys, like those are the teams. That's why I'm a little more bullish on the warriors. Cause from what I hear from their, their training camp,

like they're excited. They really think Jordan pool is going to prove to everybody. Yeah, this is real. Here we come. And so those are the kind of players. Like, I mean,

remember Jalen Brown from year one to year, year two, since we're talking about the Celtics. So in my mind, maybe Terrence Mann could do something like that to, again, hold things down. Michael Porter Jr., which isn't even a surprise anymore because we saw some of that last year. But again, he's a guy that can fill in the thing.

Depth is a problem, I think, for Portland. And health. And then, as you said, they start out six and nine and the, I mean, the Dame drum is already beating.

It's like Bradley Beals, the drum never gets turned off. It's like, they're the Energizer bunny that just keeps putting new batteries in that one. And I feel that way about Dame

and Dame, whether Dame says anything or not, I mean, that's not even relevant anymore because everybody else has beaten the drum for him. He doesn't even have to do it. Doesn't that

bring back... I mean, if you're the Sixers and you're trying to trade Ben Simmons, there's no way on earth you get Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard, right? No way, right? No way. I don't see... So who else would you have to trade if you're

the Sixers? I think your best case there is McCollum. Yeah, right? And I think you would have to throw in stuff. I actually don't even think it's an even trade anymore. Would you have to throw in a son-in-law to be named later? Like Seth Curry?

No. But the Sixers couldn't do that. No, I know. But I think you would have to do like... You would have to do Ben Simmons plus something for McCollum at this point. Going to the East, you would have said Philly was the three seed. But now God only knows how the Simmons thing is going to play out.

And I felt we did the over-unders last week. And I feel pretty confident in Atlanta or Boston for that three spot. And now people will be like, oh, you're a homer. It's like, I thought Boston was going to suck last year and said that. I think they have depth. I believe in the Tatum thing. I think last year was weird with the COVID

right when it came, right as he was starting to come on. And I could see him. I think there's legitimate second team all NBA potential for him this year. I'm not saying he'll get there, but I think... Right.

He's got to play. He's got to complete it on both ends. Could he be the fourth best forward in the league? It's conceivable. Sure it is. Of course it is. Again, what I said all the... I didn't, as you know, because I don't think you did either.

I did not vote for Jason Tatum all NBA. I did not. And that was a problem for the people that represent him, which I understand because we see him a lot. And I think he's a tremendous player. I think he's going to be one for the ages, but he's how old is he? 23.

I think it's 2023. Yeah. Both, both Jalen and Tatum are both still under 25. I mean, so like, right. So that's why we're not making,

just because we don't vote for him at all NBA this past year, we're not making, just because we don't vote for an All-NBA this past year, we're not making a determination on his future or his career. It's in that year, in that moment, there was adversity on that team and how did the best players respond to it? And that's how you judge going forward. And so- Well, and there was a lack of toughness,

which we discussed last season with that team that if you're the best part in the team, you have to be a little accountable for it. Yeah, that's right. It's a fact. All that stuff. Yeah. So anyway, I think Atlanta is going to be the three seed. I think the Celts have an outside chance. I don't think Miami is going to care as much. The only

scenario for them is if Hero is just great. And all the preseason signs are like, wow, watch out. If you're a fantasy basketball person, like watch out for hero. So if he makes the jump, maybe, but I just don't think they're going to care. I think they're going to be focused on playoffs, making sure Lowry and Butler are a hundred percent when they get there, all that stuff. Um, I like Atlanta the most. Who do you like? I still think Miami's the number three seat for all the reasons you

just said. And I just think you can tell, you could say you're going to make Kyle Lowry right for the play. All that stuff you just said, he's not going to have any of that. You kidding me? He's one of those guys. He's like LeBron. Don't tell me how hard to play or how many games to play. He's not going to put up with any of that. He's just not.

He's going to play really hard. This is a new city for him, a new team. I think they're going to be really, really good. I love Atlanta, though. But I love Atlanta, a new team. I think they're going to be really, really good. I love Atlanta, though, but I love Atlanta as you know. I'm like the president of the Atlanta Hawks fan club. I am. I think. You did an incredible job beating everyone

on the whole Trae Young thing. You saw something. I was really jealous of it. I didn't see it. Now, Rossello and I are belatedly on the bandwagon. They don't really want us. We have to hang out in our own section. We're in the back bandwagon they don't really want us we have to like hang out in our own section we're like in the back bandwagon but it's like nobody's allowed to talk to us

yeah if you're nice to me I'll see what I can do for you yeah talk to some people the back group yeah no and I just I love Atlanta

I think Travis Schlenk's really smart they just signed up Herter see all these guys like that's the one thing like Trey because he's so such a big personality

and such a big player he overshadows some of the other really important pieces and Kevin Herter some of the other really important pieces. And Kevin Hurd is one of those really important pieces. And they just locked him up. Like they're not having any DeAndre Ayton issues here. They're locking their guys up.

Yeah, because they have owners that want to spend the money. We talked about this last week. I want your opinion. Who, what rivalry? Because Trey is clearly. Yeah. Now he's just wandering around the league like fucking John Wick,

ready for rivals. And you would think like, oh, it's going to be MSG. Every time he goes to MSG, it'll be special. And it will, because it'll be him versus that crowd. But him versus Miami has a lot of potential.

They're in the same division. They're going to be battling for each other. You got the Kyle Lowry piece there now. And Butler and the Heat culture and old dog, new dog. I think I'm the most excited for that one. See, the great thing about Trey Young is wherever he goes, he'll make one because that's just

who he is. Because Boston's another possible, right? If he gets in his shooter a little bit. Yeah, because that would be pretty hilarious. We're all still waiting for Trey Young versus Steph Curry. We just haven't had enough of that. You know, we haven't had enough of that. And those two guys were foisted upon one another.

You know, the comparisons with Trey and Steph started so early. And they're just not. You know, there are some. I don't see it. Well, the similarity is that they can both shoot from the logo. But beyond that, they're so different in the way they go about their game. So those two have been foisted on one another. And I think both of them kind of resented a little bit.

Oh, yeah. But remember, Steph Curry was... You notice Curry went out of his way to praise Darius Garland? I thought that was... It was like a little Trae Young thingy there, I felt like. Well, but I think too that he was going to watch Trae Young thingy there, I felt like. Well, but I think too that, you know, he was going to watch Trae Young play, you know, when, you know, I mean, he hasn't disrespected Trae Young in any way, shape or form.

In fact, I talked to Steph about it when he mentioned the stuff about Darius Garland, you know, in that context of the discussion, he was like, you know, you're right about me and Trae. People were just pitting us against each other, comparing us. We never asked for that. We don't want any part of that. And so I think for both of them, it just kind of rubs them the wrong way.

It's almost got nothing to do with their personal relationship with one another. It's just how people group you, right? We have to go. Okay. I'll try not to take it personally. No, this was really great. I needed you to hit Ben Simmons, our favorite teams, but you didn not to take it personally. No, this is really great. I needed you. I needed you to hit Ben Simmons,

our favorite teams, but you didn't make a title pick. Uh, I'm taking the bucks to repeat. Bucks to repeat against. Uh, I'll take your Phoenix suns just to make you feel better. How's that?

Um, that was my pick. So we have the same pick except. we do. That's fine. No, that's fine. No, keep it. Okay. It's all good. That makes me feel better about mine. Milwaukee Phoenix. And we have the same reservations about the Lakers, which now you're not allowed to criticize the Lakers. Now it's like, well, you're a LeBron hater. It's like, can I have some reservations about a really old team built around a guy in his 19th year? By the way, the reservations aren't about old LeBron.

It's about all the other old guys. I don't have any reservations about so-called old LeBron. I have reservations about all the other old guys. And can I have reservations about Russell Westbrook? Is that cool? Is that fine with everybody? I think you're allowed to. Has he been a winning basketball player in like the,

every, every four rounds since? Can I ask you a question before kairi kairi went sideways would you have taken the nets out of the east no because i well ironically it was i would have i would have i'll be honest i would have i like the milwaukee nobody believes in us even though we won the title so yeah that. But also, I really genuinely felt like Kyrie was going to turn into a soap opera for them. Well, he did.

As it turned out, we didn't even need the start of the season to happen. But I just felt like that was going to be this thing. And it's like the soap opera, you know, it made me nervous. You were dead on. But now it's like, the fact that it played out the way it did now,

where they have the whole year to basically get used to playing without him. Maybe you just, you know, I don't know if you can do an injury exception or he just retires for a year or whatever. What about his extension? There's no way he's getting it.

0% chance. Right. Can't do it. Crazy. Just crazy. But I will say this. I will say. Right? Can't do it. Crazy. Just crazy. But I will say this. I will say this about Kyrie Irving, a man of his convictions.

I'm not 100% sure what those convictions are. Yeah, it would be nice if we knew what he was convicted to. But yeah, he certainly... He does not get influenced by others. He does not back down. I know that, you know, so give him that. Well, you wondered earlier, does Ben Simmons want to play basketball?

I think that Kyrie is a much better subject for that question. Yeah. It's unclear whether he wants to play basketball. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. Although, gosh, he's such a beautiful player when he's out there.

So beautiful to watch. I just wish people were a little more coherent when they're making giant decisions about things. I tried to read the summaries of the different things and it's like, I just don't understand what you're protesting. It sounds like you believe it. So that's great. Congrats. But I don't really understand this. He's protesting the right to make his own decisions. I'm telling you, that's always what Kyrie is about. No one is going to tell me what to do with my body, my life, my team, my future, my money.

That's Kyrie. He's going to do what he thinks is right, whether you understand it. He doesn't care whether you understand it. He really doesn't. That's my take on it. How many wins for the Celtics? I'm feeling 48-34.

Oh, wow, no. I'm going lower than you. I'm feeling 48-34. Lower, okay. 44 because I don't know that Robert Williams... I don't even need him to play a full season. I just need him to play a full game. I need more minutes.

No, seriously. He just doesn't play enough minutes. I said this last week. Can he play two straight weeks before we pencil him in in the depth chart as the starter? Yeah, I mean, he's a great talent. We know that.

But I've seen no evidence that you can rely on him night after night. I haven't seen that yet. When I do, I'll be a lot more excited about them. But I will say that Imei and Duka, they all seem to respond to him. That's good. He seems to... I mean, there's a new energy around them. I get that vibe.

But, you know, kind of like, don't we have to wag our finger at Marcus Smart just a little bit? Aren't you a little old to be missing team flights? That was a little weird. I don't like that. The Celts are in a weird spot where it really seemed like they had a chance to own

this part of the schedule, right? Because if the Pats were rebuilding again, and then all of a sudden the Red Sox come out of nowhere and now it's like, oh my God, we're doing this again? Another lovable team? They're fourth place.

I mean, like the Bruins, everybody loves the Bruins, Charlie McAvoy, locked up for life. Like Celtics are in fourth place right now. At least that's how it feels to me. Tatum can win that back,

I think, pretty quick. 100%. 100%. But I think there were a lot of Celtics fans that felt like you and me last year. Because if you watch them night in and night out, you know how talented they are, how talented they were, and yet there were moments

when things went bad and they didn't get back on defense and all the things that were just the one thing that you just felt was a little unforgivable, right? Soft is not a great quality for a Boston team. No, I wouldn't call... Last year,

I thought they were soft. I did. I just felt they were disconnected. Disconnected as well. This year, I think they're going to be feistier. I think Schroeder is a dick. And I mean that in a positive way. He's going to be a dick. And I think the coach is tough too. I think he's going to be a dick. He's going to... Well, remember how he was.

The coach is tough too. I think he's going to really have a toughness to him. Yeah, I'm impressed by him and I don't know him at all really. I just know of him by reputation how much everybody in the Spurs organization loved him and believed in him.

And he was one of these guys that you felt should have gotten a chance a while ago. So early returns on him seemed to be pretty good. Cool. All right, Jackie. Great to see you as always. returns on him seem to be pretty good. Cool. All right, Jackie. Great to see you as always.

We'll see you during this season. You bet. So, I thought I had two kids. I have my daughter, Zoe, and my son, Ben, age 16, 13. I didn't realize

I had an illegitimate kid out there. Ben Solak, who works for the Ringer. Loves the NFL. Degenerate gambler. I don't know I had an illegitimate kid out there. Ben Solak, who works at the Ringer. Loves the NFL. Degenerate gambler. I don't know. Are we related? Should we do a DNA test?

What's going on? You can't be calling me a degenerate gambler out here. My folks are worried. They've been worried for years. I get a weekly call from my dad asking me how I've done. And it's not because he's interested. It's because he's concerned. You're fine.

I'm doing well this year. It's always nice. He came up and visited a couple weekends ago. And I was like, please, please have a good Sunday. Have a good Sunday. And I did. I was like, alright, good. He's going to think that I do this every week now. So we got you, what, two months ago? Yeah, beginning of August.

You joined the Ringer. And you're on the Ringer NFL show and the Ringer gambling show with Warren Sharp on Wednesdays, which is a must listen. And it's a humbling show for me because I watch football every Sunday. I watch it all day. I have four televisions and then you guys are talking in a language

and I'm like, oh, I must just be old. I can't remember all the guys on every team, all this stuff. But it's been a really fun season. I love that we can't remember all the guys on every team, all this stuff, but it's been a really fun season. I love that. We don't really necessarily have a contender yet. You want it? You want to make the case for the Cowboys?

Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm buying the Cowboys, which pains me. Uh, I, I was an E I'm an Eagles fan raised by a Steeler fan. So we, we would rather the Cowboys lose than any of our teams win in my household growing up. So it hurts me to say, but Dallas at this point, I like teams, especially we're talking about contending. I like teams that have depth and I like teams that are versatile. They can win a variety of ways, right?

And when you watch this Dallas offense and one week, they're just running at two tight end sets, three tight end sets, extra offensive linemen, just bullying the Panthers all the way down the field. And then the next week they're hanging 450 passing yards on the Patriots. And Cedric Wilson's got like eight targets and Zeke's got nine targets. They're going up against the Bucs, right? And that incredible defense, they're finding gaps there.

They win in so many different ways on offense that it's tough for me to find a matchup, even in the NFC, let alone the league altogether, and say, this team can shut Dak down. This team can shut Dallas down and make them win a game they don't want to play. I don't see that happening. They're so versatile. The defense is going to get worse, but if it could just stay average,

I think we'll be okay. I just lived it. I never felt like the Pats could stop them at any point in the game. And it was like, if it was an incompletion, I was like, relieved. It was like, oh it was an incompletion, I was like relieved. It was like, oh good, they screwed up. It was one of those. It wasn't like, oh, we did

it. We shoved it. No, it was always like it felt like Dallas was the one that made the mistake if nothing good happened for them. That's what scared me. And Belichick, he did what he always does. He took away what you do good. Like CD had a tough time getting going. Cooper had a tough time getting going. Didn't matter.

You get them into first and 20, get them into second and 25. Prescott's just going to buy time and find Noah Brown 24 yards down the field. And that's the thing, is they can beat you with Noah Brown. You know what I mean? It's just, it's obnoxious the depth that they have. And then Prescott, I was talking about him on the Monday show a little bit. Nobody right now is

quarterbacking pre-snap, right? Doing the stuff in the pocket, the recognition of protections the way Dak is. It's him and Brady in terms of cerebral quarterbacks right now. And then Prescott's got the movement skills and the athleticism afterwards. So his play, especially coming off of his injury, and then the training camp injury,

it's just obnoxious how good he is. He's leading comeback player of the year odds by a mile. He's getting up there in MVP odds. That's how well he's playing coming off of a hurt season. Stupid. Well, and if you listen to sports cards nonsense, big Dak Ricky card boom right now. So it's like 1200 bucks.

I can't, if I get into sports cards, I'm truly going to go just to do. I got to stay out of that conversation altogether. That's the next step for you. Yeah, when I used to have Mike Lombardi on my pod when I was at ESPN, he used to say certain teams, he would say had the look.

Like just the team that kind of knew they're good. And it usually like the first half of the season where certain teams, you're just kind of like, oh, so this team, here we go, I guess. And Dallas has the look. I gotta say it. And it really bugs me because

their fans are annoying. I hate the Jerry Jones luxury box suites. I think there's going to be more fans coming out of the wilderness like the Russian and the Sopranos episode where they're like, where were you? You've been gone for like, oh, where's that cowboy's hat come from? Haven't seen that in a while.

So I could see all that stuff. But I mean, the biggest thing for them is they're in the craft division that your team plays in where they could be locking this up, I don't know, before Thanksgiving? This could be a wrap? Probably around that. I mean, I don't know how many divisional games they play late,

but I don't imagine those tiebreakers are going to matter because the Eagles aren't going to win games. Giants aren't going to win games. And Washington completely faceplanted. I thought Washington had a chance to be annoying and a tough out, and that defense is planted. I thought Washington had a chance to be annoying and a tough out and that defense is nowhere. The QB is a little

they just never solved it. I like Heineken. I thought he deserved a chance, but he doesn't have it and it's not going to be Kyle Allen and Fitz is my age. What do you do? I wanted Fitz to have a good season. I wanted it for him. One season as the unquestioned starter playing well for at least 11 of 17 Fitz to have a good season. I wanted it for him. One season as the unquestioned starter

playing well for at least 11 of 17 games would have made me happy. If I forced you to make a list of NFC teams that you think, if it had gone to your head, if your life depended on it, you could see them in the Super Bowl, how many teams are on that list?

Oh, definitely Dallas. Definitely the Rams. The Cardinals are that team or when you said like the Lombardi quote, they just have the look. The Cardinals are 6-0 and I don't buy it.

I don't feel it the same way. I don't believe it. The Vance Joseph defensive approach, like when we talk about defensive approach, if you're talented, you line up and play.

And if you're not talented, you throw chaos at offenses because that's just going to give you some positive plays. Their defense is chaos-based and that freaks me out because it makes me feel like they're going to get a good offense, a good quarterback facing them who can identify and sort through all that trash. Dak being one of them, Rogers and Green Bay being another one of them. And that chaos isn't going to sustain. It's not going to stand. But they did get the Rams and Stafford and they did take the wind out of their sails. Like maybe if I see it a couple more times, I'll fully buy in. So for me, it's definitely Dallas, definitely the Rams. I Tampa Bay,

obviously up there. And then the Cardinals are on the fringe. Packers are another fringe team where it's they've won five games in a row, but they're going down to the wire against the Bengals and the Niners score too quickly. And it's kind of like, all right, they're eking out some close ones because they're a veteran team. They've got a great quarterback. But how much longer can you kind of stick on that?

They're not really dominating the way these other teams are. So three for sure. And then two more, I'm kind of on the fence. Packers remind me a little of the Steelers last year. Now, different teams, obviously, but where I feel like they could have this awesome record at the end of November, where they could be like 12-2, 11-2, 11-3, and all of us are like, eh, not sure. Eh, schedule. That we'll be picking it apart. Whereas Arizona,

I'm with you. I don't feel like they have the look in the same way. I still feel like the Kyler thing scares me five times a game where I just feel like he's so tiny. I just feel like he's going to get hurt constantly. We saw it last year, right? The moment somebody landed on him, their whole season changed. We get Cardinals, Packers in, I want to say, two or three weeks

and that's going to be a really fun one. Especially if the Packers are actually healthy by then. Bakhtiari back Marquez Valdez-Scantling back that gets fun yeah the no team has the entire ship built around just one dude the way the Cardinals do around

Kyler and that's just flat out scary and it's a little bit not fair because we trust the Chiefs with Mahomes in that way but they've earned it we've seen it a couple years now. Cliff ain't Andy, right? Vance Joseph's not, oh, what's his name? Spagnuolo.

You know what I mean? They haven't gotten the tenure there yet where I fully buy into it. So I'll be very happy to be wrong on the Cardinals come January, right, when they're like number one seed and they're winning a buy and they're outscoring everybody. But to me, that's a narrow road to walk. And so I don't want to believe in it.

I think Packers Cardinals is a huge game. If they win that one and control the way they did against the Rams, it becomes a little bit harder to have this continued doubt. So that's a loser leaves town match for you for Super Bowl in a Super Bowl way. Yeah, because they both have

they both have they're both on the fence for me. I think the Packers can be able to run it all over them, but I've been saying that for weeks now and teams still aren't running on the Cardinals.

So what do I know at this point? It's interesting. If the Niners didn't make the Trey Lance trade and let's say they just took somebody awesome who was playing right away at that 12th pick

and kept their picks and just had Jimmy G, I think they would be on that second tier for me. They put all this capital into the Trey Lance thing and on top Jimmy G, I think they would be on that second tier for me. They put all this capital into the Trey Lance thing and on top of it, Jimmy G gets hurt. And the vibe of it was weird anyway, but it just seems like they have bad mojo.

Like, you know, now Kittle's out. Their running back situation's been a revolving door, but there's a world in which they just don't make that trade and they're healthy, and I feel like we're talking about them too. The scrutiny that Kyle Shanahan's going to get for his personnel decisions is long-coming

and warranted, and I think this Lance decision, obviously, whenever you make that trade for that quarterback, put those eggs in that basket, you invite that scrutiny, but you go and you look at last year's first-round pick and Brandon Ayuk, who's now straight in his doghouse right after we saw this happen with Dante Pettis.

He's a second round pick at wide receiver. He got into Shanahan's doghouse. They took Jalen Hurd in the third round when nobody was planning on doing that. They took Joe Williams in the third round. He wasn't even on their board. He just talked John Lynch, the GM, into doing it. They got a second round guard in Aaron Banks

and their guard position is horrible right now and he can't find the field. So Shanahan's got a lot of control in that front office and they make a lot of picks on offense and a lot of them don't work. Debo, good. Kittle, good. Besides that, they have really, really struggled to draft on offense

and they've spent early, early picks in that. And if Lance is another situation where they just can't figure it out in time before shanahan kind of gets bored or gets frustrated or just wants to put the new shiny toy away and get you know go get something else it's it's gonna start to invite some questions about does this guy who's clearly a very good offensive designer need a real gm because that that head coach general manager push and pull is very important to healthy franchises. And San Francisco decided to give Shanahan,

really unproven coach, a lot of pull in the personnel department. And I don't think that's working for them. That has to get investigated, I think, at the end of this year. It's weird that he didn't play the odds. He was in the 12th pick. There's five QBs.

And unless you're trading up for Lance because you feel like this guy is basically Mahomes. Other than that, you stay where you are and keep the picks and you basically do what Belichick did. Now granted, Belichick's made a million front office mistakes

the last few years. I'm not saying he's the be-all and end-all. But I do think if there was any draft where you just kind of wait and see how it goes, this was the draft. And they had the ability to get either Fields or Jones. And when they trade up to three, it was the rumor was they were trading up for Jones.

And then something flipped. Yeah. And that's why, like, when they trade up for three with Lance, for me, it's like a football head. I see that and I go, Shanahan's got a vision for an offense, a QB run-based offense, an RG3 2012 Washington-style offense that's just going to ignite this team. That's what you assume because you see the capital they invest. And then they had the Lance game against the Cardinals, right? And there was some QB run and they stole some stuff from the Ravens. And it was, in general, good, but it wasn't like, oh, I see the vision. I see what they were hunting when

they went and they made this huge chip push into the middle of the table. That wasn't really there. It was more so like, yeah, that's what you would do with a running quarterback. So I agree with you. It feels like they could have sat, could have waited, seen how the board came to them, and then built an offense around that. I don't understand why they felt such a strong commitment to Lance besides the natural physical ability, which is nuts. But even then, you've got to know that's not going to manifest this year. This young man's 21. He had

one year of starting experience at an FCS school. He just doesn't have the reps to go out in the NFL and be immediately successful. So if you were pushing those chips in for 2022, that's fine. But 2021 so far, it's been a disappointment how they've handled the quarterback situation and what the offense looked like with Lance out there, in my opinion.

He's closer to Trubisky than I think I wanted him to be. Lance? Yeah, it just doesn't seem like he's played quarterback enough. He's really, really raw. Yeah, he was so jumpy on the first couple drives against the Seahawks. Kind of settled in. Came against the Cardinals.

Super-duper jumpy. Like that, the first pick he threw is just an example of a, a perfect example of a rookie quarterback knowing how it's supposed to look. It comes out exactly

how it's supposed to look and he just freezes. He just freaks out. Ah, football! Like, you're not, you know, it's not in tuned yet. It's not habituated yet.

And so that ball comes out late. He knows it's late. So he's trying to throw it too fast. So the release is too quick. It comes out high and it's picked. Like, that's rookie nonsense 101. You should have known that was coming. I think they did.

I think that's why they kept on playing Jimmy. But it does just continue to ask of ownership another year of patience with Shanahan as he builds this out. That's why I say I don't think they need to make a change. I just think there's going to be increased scrutiny over this year

and into next offseason in terms of the personnel decisions that Shanahan makes, how that's affecting the team's timeline. D'Amico Ryan's is good, though. They got a good DC there. So that's how they were successful

last time was with Robert Saleh. I'm not the first one to say this, but Lance throws everything as hard as he possibly can, which is rough. We're the quarterback. We're even talking like five yard outs.

It's funny. We thought that West division was going to be so incredible. And now we're looking at a situation where there's basically two teams. Seattle might be out. That might've been a loser leaves town match on Sunday night. And you think think how bad their defense has been versus what we thought

it was going to be. The first round capital that they've lost. Wilson's not back maybe until week eight, week nine, and it just might be too late for them because I think it's going to be 10-7 in the NFC. Yeah, that's the thing. I could see them still being in the wildcard picture when the graphic goes up in week 13 and they're

still on the bubble, but it certainly won't feel that way uh and right i think that this seattle offseason was obviously one of of uh statements lobbied in the media i want a pass protector we're gonna fire brian schottenheimer kind of a little bit of i've seen the the cracks there in the facade and then the first couple weeks of of, I remember talking about that Seattle offense this offseason and saying, you know, like, it all sounds good in theory. We're going to bring in Shade Waldron. We're going to be this.

We're going to be that. But offenses with Russ at quarterback tend to all look the same. And that's because he doesn't play ball a certain way. And so that week one game against the Colts, if they had done that the rest of the season, I would tell you that Russ is coming back. They're going to win eight. Their final eight games are going to make the playoffs. But after that Colts, if they had done that the rest of the season, I would tell you that Russ is coming back. They're going to win eight, their final eight games.

They're going to make the playoffs. But after that Colts game, that offense started to just regress right back to standard Russell Wilson fair, throwing the fact that the defense cannot communicate. Nobody, they don't talk. The secondary has no idea where anybody else is. Bobby Wagner's getting older. Absolutely.

They're kind of following the same model. They followed for the last four years, five years, just with less players, worse players, frustrated Russ. It feels like it's crumbling a little bit in Seattle. Old coaches.

Carroll, Belichick, Andy Reid. Vic Fangio. Vic Fangio. There's another one. All those teams have looked super sloppy this year. Like uncharacteristically so in the New England case.

I have a Jamal Adams question for you. Just explain this to me because they gave up two first round picks for him. I had him on my podcast last year. Everyone's talking about what an unbelievable safety is. I watched the Seahawks and I don't see the impact. I guess in the way you would think for somebody who's this quote unquote generational safety that they gave two first round picks to. And I was thinking about it compared to basketball, where I'm sure what he does, his ability to come up basically as this extra linebacker and this amazing guy who can rush the pass or wreak havoc. It's definitely something. It's a good thing to have.

But if you were saying this was the NBA, it's kind of like having an awesome three-point shooter. But if you're now traded two lottery picks for this guy and given him a huge contract and made him one of the focal points of your team, it goes a little sideways. Is Adams a specialty guy or is he somebody who can be one of the best three guys your team, it goes a little sideways. Is Adams a specialty guy or is he somebody who can be

one of the best three guys on a championship team? No, specialty is the right way to put it. Whenever we talk about safeties, especially in the changing NFL, we're talking about versatility, multiplicity, the ability to fill a lot of different roles.

Because now I can hide what I'm doing as a defense structurally. If we take as a great example, like the Bills right now, Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, their safeties. Both of them can do everything decently well. So put them both deep and move them around. Sometimes we're going to go single high.

He's going to come into the box. He's going to blitz. He can man cover. We can do it all. Adams is a very polar skill set. If he's in man coverage over a tight end, you want to throw the ball to that tight end because he's going to uncover. That's how Adams is, who he's always been. If you can get

Adams in the box, he's going to light somebody on fire. You know what I mean? He is explosive in terms of physicality. So now Adams is always playing in the box and I'm always trying to hide it from man coverage, which means I always need a nickel on the field. And that means Quandre Diggs has to always play deep. And now I've become static. I'm getting a guy where he's most dangerous, where he's most effective for me, but I can't lie to the offense anymore. And so now they can pick their spots to target Adams, pick their spots to avoid Adams.

They know what coverage I'm going to be in. They're going to know what I'm doing. So when you have highly specialized players on offense, think about like a Marquise Brown, receiver for the Ravens. Brother is small as heck, but he is fast and he can fly. That's very useful. I like role players on offense. On defense, I don't like role players. I want multiplicity. I want versatility. I want to be able to lie to you.

I want to make you think after the snap. Adams is a highly specialized player. Even when Seattle puts him in maximal spots, he gets nine and a half sacks in 2020. It's not wholly to the benefit of the defense at large because now offenses kind of know what they're going to get from you when he's on the field. So he sounds more like a big man in basketball then. Yeah. Like if he's in the game,

we have to slow it down and run our offense through him. But you kind of know that's what we're going to do. Right. Because of where I'm at mentally on this day, October 19th, I'm thinking about Ben Simmons in terms of, right, when Simmons is on the court, I know what he can do and I know what he can't. So he gets the ball behind the three-point line. I don't give

a hoot. Now I'm playing five on four, right? Well, in the case of Adams, again, like if Adams didn't man coverage, I know where I want to go with the ball. It makes my job easier when I'm facing this guy because he's so specialized. Jamal Adams, the Ben Simmons, although he wants to play unlike Ben Simmons.

I spent the last like five hours dreading that you were going to bring up Ben Simmons and then I brought up Ben Simmons. Although he wants to play unlike Ben Simmons. I spent the last like five hours dreading that you were going to bring up Ben Simmons and then I brought up Ben Simmons. I don't want to do this conversation. We,

with the, with the Jamal Adams thing, how you talked about the versatility. That's, I think, why Belichick loves Jamie Collins so much. Right.

Because he's like the embodiment, right? He's like the world's greatest athlete, Jamie Collins, who is just a joke. Like he could do everything, but he could drop into pass coverage. He. Because he's like the embodiment, right? He's like the world's greatest athlete, Jamie Collins, who is just a joke. Like he could do everything, but he could drop into pass coverage.

He can basically do everything and that's why they're so attracted to him. Whereas Hightower, at this point of his career, there's situations where if I see, if I see the back of Hightower's jersey and he's chasing some tight end and the ball is in the air,

I'm like, oh my God, here we go. Like he's not the same versatile guy he was four years ago. I think that's one of the reasons they've struggled to get stops on some of these third and shorts. I mean, they've had a bunch of issues, but that's one of them.

There's the same thing with the McCourty brothers. Why you like them, right? Because of their coverage ability. Now there's, as always, there's always going too far. There's all things in moderation because sometimes you love versatility so much

you give 24 million over four years to Jalen Mills. And then you put Jalen Mills on the football field and discover just because he's done everything doesn't mean he's good at anything. So you can be versatile, but

only up to a point. You still got to be able to do to do something at a high level. So there's a balance that's got to be struck. My dad always has at least one guy in the team that he can't stand.

And Mills has become the defensive guy in this Patriots. He's like, Mills! God! I told him when we signed him. He's like, who's this Mills guy? And I was like, every Eagles fan in my life thinks this guy's stunk. So that worries me because usually the fans kind of know,

especially with D-backs. But yeah, there's a lot more problems than that. Hey, let me ask you about Bill's Titans quick. So Titans win. It was a weird game. I don't want to jump to any conclusions. Also, the Kibbe sneak call was weird. I didn't like how he took the step back

and tried to learn short. I thought that was risky, just like snap the ball, go forward. I did wonder though, because we kind of been waiting for this Titans team to Michael Myers it and, you know, do the rise up and all of a sudden they're killing people again. Is that like a fluke game to you or is that the start of something? Because somebody has to win that division. Yeah. And the thing was coming into the year, I was right between

Colts and Titans. I kind of leaned Colts. My concern with the Titans was the defense coming into the game. I want to say they were 25th, 26th in terms of defensive DVO. I right now. Yeah, they're 28th after the game. They've given up. Right. They gave up 31 to the Bills.

They gave up 27 to the Jets. They give up 30 to the Seahawks and they won two of those three games. But when you're losing to the Jets, you're a tough team to trust. Like that's just a blanket statement. So we like the wins and we like the fact that this this Tannehill offense, even without Arthur Smith, their ex offensive coordinator, can still put up 30. Like, that's great. Derrick Henry's still the dude. AJ Brown's still the dude.

All that's awesome. But if you're going to win shootouts all the way home, yeah, maybe you win a bad AFC South. But that's a really tough thing to hang my hat on once we get into playoff time. And that's the conversation around Rabel. This guy has a defensive background. And ever since they lost Dean Pease, who's the DC in Atlanta now, they're not good on defense.

They don't got personnel. They don't have anything scheme-wise that's impressive. They spent $18 million on Bud Dupree. Nobody else was lining up to spend $18 million on Bud Dupree. Nobody else was lining up to spend $18 million on Bud Dupree. Their defense is extremely concerning and it's banged up. So I'm impressed the Titans are 4-2. I'm impressed

by the win last night. But for me, a very, very tough team to fully believe in because they're so one-sided. We talked about the Pat Spending spree on Sunday's pod. I forgot Kendrick Bourne was he should count. So Judon and Bourne I think are wins.

I think Mills is a loss. I think Aguilar is probably mostly a loss just because they keep trying to run plays where he has to do stuff crossing over the middle. It just seems like he should be running straight lines and that's it.

They basically use him like Henry Ruggs. I would never use him in any other situation. And then the tight ends, they overpaid for two guys who are at least both serviceable, right? Right. I think continuing to give Henry more snaps over John, it was better.

Sure. C-plus for the spinning spree? What would you give so far? I'm probably like C-plus, B-minus. The thing is, it was a very low risk proposition as like Belichick identified after the spending spree. This was the time to do it. We had a ton of money. And unlike most years, nobody else did. So we're going to we're going to pour money into this. I don't think that like hitting on all those guys would have been necessary to call it a success. I think that you're fine hitting on some, not hitting on others like the mills contract for over 24,

but they can get out of it. I want to say for like year two, you know what I mean? Like this was kind of built to be all right, let's throw a bunch of darts and the ones that stick stick and the ones that don't don't in general, that plus some of the defensive drafting. Like I like what I see from the Patriots personnel wise.

I think that you've got some offensive questions in terms of marrying the scheme to the players you've got and what Mack can do well. And then developing Mack is just critical, right? Because he's had good games. He's looked impressive. Obviously, after the shot he took from Gregory, the Cowboys game really wasn't as strong.

But you have to do more to open up this offense with him and his talent. It cannot continue to be isolation slants, isolation curls, nickel and dime up the field. And they did that a little bit against the Cowboys. Push the ball downfield a little bit more. But that growing process is the most important thing. I don't think the Patriots are going to be legit on offense anytime soon. But if they look like they understand it and they've got continuity and they have a vision by November, December,

carry that into year two, you feel good. Feels like we're five, we're like four plays away from five and one. The thing that scares me is can they keep Mack on the field for four months

because he's already taken more hits. When I was growing up, we had this guy, Jim Punkett, who was the number one pick who got the shit kicked out of him for six years and then was out of football

and then went to the Raiders and won Super Bowls. And it was this big thing when I was growing up, like, oh, we had Plunkett, but we couldn't block for him. He took too much punishment. Mack has taken more hits in the last six weeks. I can't even tell you, like that Gregory hit,

which was the hardest one where it seemed like he was dead for two seconds. He's taken at least 10 that were 70% as bad as that one. And I really worry about him getting through the season because I think he's a tough guy. He stays in until the last possible second on all of these. And at some point, you know, if he's the future of the franchise,

you got to treat him a little more carefully, I would hope, right. The best part about that Gregory hit is that they pulled Ferens out of the game because he had the penalty and they put the back-up right tackle in. Back-up right tackle didn't know the snap count. Randy Gregory just eats him. You know what I mean?

It was a play action on second and 17, which is like, who am I fooling with the play action on second and 17? It was terrible. The play calling's been bad. All right, Kyle, turn on the video camera here. Turn it on. Turn on the casino camera. Our last question for Ben Solak.

You're starting to get Russell Wilson ideas, aren't you? In Philly. You're starting to think about it. I can feel it. I can see the gleam in your eye. They've had Russell Wilson ideas since they missed on Russell Wilson. From the day that the Seahawks sniped

them and they took Nick Foles instead, they've leaked to the media how he has like a hundred times, like, oh, we were planning on taking him, we were going to do this and that, whatever. When they took Jalen Hurts, like, so the first words out of Howie's mouth were like, well, we wanted Russell Wilson, we couldn't get him, so we didn't want to wait on Hurts. And it's like,

guys, you gotta forgive and forget. We couldn't get him. So we didn't want to wait on Hurts. And it's like, guys, you gotta forgive and forget. You gotta live your life. The Seahawks got him. He was good. You were right on him, but you didn't take him in time. You had to deal with it. Well, now that they have Hurts, who clearly is a Russell Wilson style player, they believe in this mobile quarterback.

They don't mind if he's short. They don't mind if he doesn't throw middle of the field. We're just going to do dink, dunk, dink, dunk, dink, dunk, deep shot. That's how we're going to play offense. They clearly like that style. And now Russ kind of had the first trade inklings last offseason. I think they're monitoring Russ. And we know they were monitoring

the Deshaun Watson situation. So it's two and two plus four. Or two plus two is four, excuse me. So I think that they are more on it. For me, I've seen how much Seahawks fans suffer watching Russell Wilson every single year. And I could do that for a couple years. I think it'd be fun.

I think they'll win a few games too. He's obviously a talented quarterback. But this team's not ready. You know what I mean? It's not like the Steelers. If you just fixed quarterback, they'd be good. The defense is horrible. So I'd like Russ because it would entertain me.

But I don't have any lofty envisions for the Eagles back in the playoffs anytime horrible. So, I'd like Russ because it would entertain me, but I don't have any lofty envisions for the Eagles back in the playoffs anytime soon. Okay. You didn't convince me totally. I think deep down, you had three first-round picks,

including this Miami pick that, now, they have three games against New York, two Jets, one Giants. They have a Texans game, so it's realistic they get to probably

five and 11. But that still could be the sixth pick in the draft. Your team should be trying to go backwards. Maybe it makes more sense to play Jalen Hurts than Minshew. Right.

And continue to lose games. Yeah. Yeah. Hurts is just good enough to keep the games respectable in garbage time, but not actually good enough, I don't think, to beat anyone

substantial. So maybe that's where you end up. But I don't mind what they did. You got rid of Wentz, which seems brilliant. I'm not a huge fan. You're getting a first-round pick, assuming he plays what, 12 games? Something like that? Yeah, 75% of the snaps

they get the first-round pick, or 70% in the playoffs is the number. Which I will say, over the last two weeks of the snaps. They get the first round pick or 70% in the playoffs is the number, which I will say over the last, I want to say it's two weeks of the season. Leader in EPA per drop back is Carson Wentz. They played like the Texans and the Ravens. I don't know how much the Texans defense counts, but if Eagles fans want to take the victory lap on the Carson Wentz trade,

they might have to wait a little bit because his, his stretch of play recently has been pretty solid. But they were right to get rid of him. He will never convince me. I will never trust that guy. I refuse to bet on the Colts. I didn't even Colts Texans tease last week. I stayed away. Are you teasing

anybody this week? Are you teasing part of that guy or no? I don't tease too much simply because I have far too much hubris and I believe that I can get the lines correct and I don't need the extra points. I'm often incorrect on that. Early on, I know I was on the Browns-Broncos over for Thursday night just because I'm

assuming that Baker's going to play and all this is just, you know, kind of bluster and kerfuffle. It's a total at 44, which would make sense if the Fangio defense were playing well, but it hasn't been in recent weeks. And so I think that we're over there. FYI, Denver's not good. I feel a little poorly just because they got hit with some offensive line

and wide receiver injuries from the jump. But the passing game looked like it was going to be legit early. Right, but there's that. And then also, if we're talking about front offices and the way they view quarterback, for George Payton to come out and say it's easier to get a franchise quarterback than a franchise corner,

subsequently bring in a bunch of corners, and then be bad at quarterback, and then be bad at cornerback, is extremely frustrating. You gotta know where you are as a team. And they were good at corner. They didn't need to draft Patrick Sertani. He's out there playing well,

but he's still a rookie. Deontay Johnson cooked his lunch at the line of scrimmage. That's what happens to rookies. You can't be putting your eggs in that basket. So, yeah, that and then they've got linebacker problems, which Fangio defenses live with good linebackers. Navarro Bowman and Patrick Wilson, San Francisco,

Roquan Smith in Chicago. Denver has no linebackers right now, so they can't get the job done up front. They're not a good defense currently. And so I like Fangio. I think Fangio's a good coach. I don't know if he holds this job the rest of the way

because, you know, you got to know a tree by its fruit and they just haven't produced wins. Do you have a sleeper that sucks right now before we go that you feel like just keep an eye on them? Like a Titans type of team,

a two and four. Is there a two and four team you kind of like? I don't know if the Titans count because they're four and two. And that's the thing is they're tough to figure out. Yeah, they're tough to2. And that's the thing. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they're tough to figure out for that reason.

Deceiving 4-2. Yeah. Yeah, I guess the Pats would be a candidate. But teams in that class? Yeah, I think that the Jets will continue to get better throughout the year. We were talking about this a little bit. That defense is likable. It is.

That defensive front is the sort of group that when they get bad offensive lines, they're going to be able to just take over games, make games ugly, make them nasty. And I think Wilson's going to get better across the course of the year. Don't get it twisted. Wilson's been straight bad. So really, there's nowhere else to go but up.

But also, it's adjusting to NFL speed. And then also, on the other side of that coin, rookie quarterbacks, Justin Fields with the Bears, his box scores don't look good, but you put on the film and he could play. He's making NFL throws. He's aggressive. Talk about Mac taking hits.

He takes a lot of hits, but Fields is a big boy. So he bounces back up really quick. He plays physical brand of football. And then that defense didn't look good coming into the year. Robert Quinn's playing outside of his mind. Roquan Smith's playing outside of his mind.

Sean decides the DC there. He's a young guy, gets that team amped up. They play very, very fast. And then that secondary is young. But again, they're aggressive and they tackle and Sean decides the DC there. He's a young guy, gets that team amped up. They play very, very fast. And then that secondary is young. But again, they're aggressive and they tackle and they do the little stuff.

They're clearly a very high energy group. So Chicago, I know they didn't cover against against the Packers, but they I continue to take the under on them because that defense is playing really well. And that offense slows the game, right?

They run the ball a lot. So they take time off the clock and fields can make some critical third down throws. So I like I've had Chicago as a dog the past couple of weeks and it's done well for me. They continue to, to impress just as a team that shows up in fights every single week.

I'm with you on the bears. And Sal and I talked about fields on Sunday night. It was basically the opposite of what you said about Trey Lance, how he seems frantic and the game's going too fast. There's a confidence with fields that you can really feel. There's a calmness to him that I think at that position might be the most important trait.

I think Mack has it too. They're just grounded in the moment and they're very confident in themselves and you can really feel it. Yeah, it's poise. And you got it or you don't. You don't develop it. You don't find it.

You don't uncover it. You don't grow it. You have it or you don't. And Trubisky never had it and Fields immediately develop it. You don't find it. You don't uncover it. You don't grow it. You have it or you don't. And Trubisky never had it and Fields immediately had it. Yeah, and the thing with Fields is sometimes, two boys, sometimes like get out of the pocket, throw it away, live to fight another

down. But he's tough as nails. And yeah, he's extremely comfortable. And that's where it is with Mack, right? Like Mack is so comfortable. If it means I have to take a hit, if it means I have to adjust in the pocket, take a check down, I'll take whatever you give me, but I'm comfortable and I'm confident in what I'm doing. So yeah, Fields to me has been the most impressive rookie through five weeks. And again, I know the box floor don't reflect that, but you see him make some just tight window

throws like Darnell fricking Mooney. And you're like, yeah, we got to build around this guy. This guy's for real. Plus with his coaching staff, it's even more impressive. I mean, you wrote about that for the ringer, but like, yeah, it would be cool if they got somebody that could take advantage of them. All right, Ben Solak, we can hear you with Warren Sharp on Wednesdays on ringer gambling and then the Young Guns on Friday.

And then you're on the Sunday pod with Clark Knorr as well on ringer NFL and read him on the ringer as well. It's been a great edition. It's been really fun to work with you. Good to see you. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it.

Go birds.