The Bill Simmons Podcast - LeBron's Depressing Lakers Future and the Best Playoff Matchups With Ryen Russillo | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 487)

Episode Date: February 26, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Lakers' trying times, next year's free agents, projected playoff matchups, Dirk Nowitzki's farewell tour, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. Brought to you, as always, by ZipRecruiter. Having a high sports IQ, it's important. It's been important for LeBron James over the years. Hasn't really worked this year. We're going to talk about that with Ryan Rosillo in a second. When it comes to hiring, you don't need a high hiring IQ. Obviously, the Lakers didn't have a high hiring IQ

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So that's all happening. Coming up, Ryan Rosillo, our weekly NBA chat, which does not have a name yet. I don't know if it needs a name. On Twitter, I think they call it something like two Boston assholes talking or I'm sure you're talking about the Celtics the whole time and all your derogatory

comments. Words hurt, people. Words hurt. Stop. But if you have an idea for what we should call this weekly little NBA chat that we do, send it to us on Twitter. Send it to Ryan because I don't check my replies. But you can send it to Ryan. Send it to him or send

it to the Neff. I keep an eye out. What are you? At TomShady3000? 300. At TomShady300. Yeah. If you have an idea for these weekly NBA chats. We're going to talk about LeBron. We're going to talk about a whole bunch of stuff. Heading. Hey, just

it's a weird time for the league. The playoffs are still a little far away, but they're actually not too far away now. The Lakers are in real trouble. MVP race, we're about 10 games away from that, really starting to become an argument. But there's still some fun subplots. The most fun being LeBron has maybe destroyed the Lakers,

and we're going to talk about that coming up. But first, Pearl Jam. LeBron has maybe destroyed the Lakers. And we're going to talk about that coming up. But first, Pearl Jam. All right. It is Tuesday morning here in Southern California. Ryan Rosillo is here. Every week we do this, we talk about basketball. We're going to be doing it all the way through mid-July. Usually we do it on Sunday nights, Monday mornings,

but the Oscars screwed things up for us this year. I'm glad we waited a couple days, though, because this Lakers thing has now gotten to the point where I'm ready to deep dive it for 40 minutes. The LeBron footage last night. He's just become that guy in pickup who you're like, dude, I'm trying to stay in the court here. Are you going to guard anybody? What are you doing?

Do you think losers stay on? What rules do you play with? The passive aggressive body language and the shrugs and the, and the staring for the extra second. And it is, it's the end of Godfather two. Okay. But this is so predictable.

Okay. And the reason I say this is that I remember pointing this out last year when he's at Cleveland going, he is just done. And I don't blame him for not defending the toughest guy. I don't blame him for floating and picking his spots. I mean, look at his overall stat line last night. It's still incredible.

But if you watch him, just him, nothing else for long stretches, you're going to surprise yourself. Because the thing is, is it turned into spotlight guy because they lose to a terrible Memphis team. Yeah. And before when he was doing it in Cleveland, or earlier when he was first with LA, you know, before the injury, they were winning enough games that nobody cared and nobody wanted to point it out.

So this tide has turned on LeBron as if this is some new thing that he's actually been doing for two years. This is why. And what's funny is one of the worst takes anybody has is when they do the whole thing about LeBron should have won eight MVPs. It's like, actually, he won the right amount of MVPs. I care about the MVP. I'm invested in it.

I really try to make the right choice every year. It's a regular season award. The fact that he turns it on for the playoffs doesn't mean anything for the MVP. You're picking the best player for 82 games last year. What did he take seven weeks off from playing defense from like Christmas day all the way through the trade deadline. And I think the Cleveland organization really felt like, you know, LeBron was kind of putting a gun to their head, trying to get them to trade that Brooklyn pick that became Colin Sexton. It was like, ah, we need help. But also he wasn't like going all out in those games. And that really caused a lot of tension

on both sides. And I don't know who can say anything to him because, you know, I think of that Tristan play where Tristan just kind of snapped on him on the court because Tristan's going, hey, dude, you're in between on your decision. And then whatever it is, if they score, then it's somebody else's fault. And that's tristan's point i'm not the biggest tristan guy but i think you could even see lebron in that moment go like okay you know he actually might be right but i don't know that there's certainly no one in this lakers roster that can say that to him if you watched now the body language is no way the kuzma and those guys they're like just you could tell they're traumatized now yeah and that's that's the one part of it.

Like if you don't want to play locked in defense all season long when you've been doing what you're doing, that's fine. If you don't want to take on, you want the easiest wing every night, that's fine. But the ones that bother me when he turns to the teammates and you're like, dude, that was your guy. There's no debate. There's no debate. Yeah.

Like don't, and you know, it's funny because sometimes I think about different players, like whether it was Grayson Allen and you just go, oh, you know what he is? He's just that spastic kid in your neighborhood that just can't, he can't not freak out. Yeah. And he just happens to be really good. He's at Duke. LeBron at times is that guy in pickup who's been awesome, has a cool girls love him and you know if you if you score on him he's he's gonna fake an injury because he doesn't want to look bad and i there's there's times where i see it and i go okay but this is all coming to a head now despite they've saved their season twice in previous two weeks when you lose that memphis team if you haven't watched the grizzlies in the last couple of weeks.

They lost to Memphis and New Orleans. Without Davis. Like, think about... Those are two of the four worst teams in the league with the talent they have and what their motivations are for the season. For whatever reason, I've watched Memphis two full games in the last week.

And when it first dawned on me... It's a lot of Avery Bradley. Ivan Rab was out there with Caboclo. And then Noah comes in, who looks like he just got back from Morocco. Yeah. He looks great. He looks like he should be holding a strawberry daiquiri on the sidelines. It's unbelievable, but he's still got the bicep veins,

so it's not like he's fat. Him and Tyson Chandler going mano a mano last night was really special. It was like, wow. Tyson Chandler in 2011 basically swung the finals with his defense. And Noah in like 13, I think I voted him like third or fourth for MVP. Well, he had that one year.

And these guys are just shells of themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And then Noah, we watched die in front of our eyes in that Wizards Bulls series. Yeah. Where he just,

his soul was still there, but his body had died and he was killed that day. It's weird because he, he played like 50, I think he played 68 minutes in one game. Oh my God.

Remember that? Tibbs always gets blamed for other guys, but it was really Noah was the one that, I feel like he had it. I mean, Llewell Dangan

wasn't great either. Dangan was playing like 40 minutes a game that one year. Yep. But anyway, the LeBron stuff, it's weird because it's almost

become like politics, where there's no nuance in the LeBron debate anymore. We can both say, I think he's the second greatest player ever. I thought what he did in the playoffs was amazing. I think his durability is amazing. I thought the fact that he donated to the school was amazing.

There's all these things I really like about him. And there's a couple of things that I really dislike about not just how he handles stuff, but the way it's covered and the behavior that we excuse from him. Like the fact in 2014, I'm coming home. This is it. I'm back in Cleveland. This is where I'm going to end my career. Go back and read the pieces about it.

And then he just does year to year deals. And then after he won the title, he's basically hatching his exit plan. I think for two years, we started hearing about that summer of 2016. And he really, what he tried to do that Cleveland team, I think he really did it as he brought them a title, but then like to make them pay Thompson all that money when they knew it was wrong they knew they didn't want to do it and and he basically held a gun to their head and they had to pay him 17 million dollars a year and the JR contract 13 million a year who was paying JR 13 million a year like he left that team in shambles yeah it just wasn't right just wasn, you know? And I don't think he took enough shit for that.

Yeah. Because he got him a title. Because he got him a title in that city that... That's kind of back to what you said is like, how do you divvy up the pie chart of how you want to talk about LeBron leaving Cleveland? Because still it's going to be overwhelmingly positive that not only did he bring that city a title, but to beat that Golden State team, to beat them in the way they did, for he and Kyrie to play like they did down the stretch. I mean, those guys are incredible. Well, you remember last year, there was a whole schism about you have to trade this Brooklyn pick.

I need more help. And Cleveland was basically like, if you leave, we have nothing left if we trade that pick. But that's the irony of this Lakers roster, right? Because we know he hates playing with young guys. You know he doesn't care about draft picks. And then he ends up on a team where it's all rookie scale guys and then one-year vets who are all dinged. And that's why they were available.

I'm flipping that around, though. I don't feel like this is the young guy's fault. The issue with this team is the guys they signed. All those guys suck. What, Pope? Rondo. All those guys suck. What? Rondo, KCP. Right. Michael Beasley's already gone.

JaVale McGee. That was quick. Lance Stevenson. These guys all suck. And remember, their whole pitch was, and you could tell, it was before they even said it. I was like, what do you guys want to win a street fight? And it was like, Golden State's soft. We're going to be able to go toe-to-toe with them and we can win it on the court.

We can win it in the alley. And it's like, where are you going to miss a ton of shots? You know? I like Kuzma. I like Kuzma. I like Josh Hart.

I think Ingram has potential. I still don't know what he is, but all those guys, wouldn't you say their hearts are in the right place at least? Like they play hard. I watched them. Kuzma plays hard.

Last year for two months, those guys were playing hard down the stretch so it's not like it's not like they're lost causes no i i wouldn't say that i i ingram is still confusing to me about what the best version of him will be and what who he guards in a the last five minutes of a finals game and all that stuff. Like what is he? Ultimately, what is he? Where is he on the court? Who are the right four guys to have with him if I'm trying to win a title?

Those are things I don't know. And I think you could actually say the same thing about LeBron at this point. You watch LeBron now, he's so big. I mean, he's bigger than Karl Malone was, And it's like he's clearly a power forward, maybe even like a stretch five. Remember he would never ever tell us how much he weighed and then he dropped that he weighed 280 last week. Kyle or LeBron?

Kuzma? I'm just making sure Kyle's paying attention. Sorry, Kyle. No. Kyle looks good. Kyle's getting in shape. Thick as in. Zion's bringing back Thick. But like LeBron, the days of LeBron being a small forward is over

because you talk about, all right, if they get Davis and then Draymond Green signs with Clutch and I saw online somewhere, it's like, what if they get Anthony Davis, Draymond Green and LeBron? And I'm thinking like, that's a weird team. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm not sure you can play those three guys together. Those, you basically have three power forwards. I think LeBron has now become a hard guy to figure out who is the right team to put with him. And the more I watch the Kyrie debacle in Boston, it's like Kyrie is kind of perfect for him. Kyrie is like the greatest heat check guy of all time right he can be

over there he doesn't need to be involved and then if you need him he can carry you for six straight minutes which is kind of the perfect guy to be with LeBron and that didn't work out so I don't know you're absolutely right about Kyrie absolutely and I think going back the plan was before

you know all of this stuff happened is that LeBron would shift into this point forward and that Kyrie could carry the scoring load I think LeBron wanted to despite you know the the narcissism of any superstar in sports the thing LeBron probably deserves credit for but he didn't get the chance to do is that I think he wanted to, and these, this is going back years ago in these conversations, but he wanted to shift into letting Kyrie be that guy every single night.

And I'll still get my points and I'll play kind of this point forward thing and run the offense through me. And that's how I'll transition transition as I, as I become an older player. And now it's, you know, the numbers are still so impressive, but because this team is losing,

and we saw evidence of Luke Walton with a young group last year actually be competitive defensively, which I always bring up because I think it's important to remember that these guys actually competed and were okay. And we all thought down the stretch last year, we were like, oh, Luke Walton.

That Warriors thing wasn't a fluke. This guy knows what he's doing. Yeah, right. And now he's a complete schmuck who has to go coach college because he couldn't figure out how to mesh LeBron and all these weird veterans. Rondo's the only

one who's defensible of all those guys they signed. But even that, that's a weird for LeBron. He's never played with a point guard that can't shoot like that. Yeah, and Rondo's, I think, from especially the last few weeks of him being back, it's a lot like what it was in other stretches.

Like that Pelican stretch for Rondo was actually very un-Rondo-like, that he was so locked in every night and he was consistently great again. And you're like, what is this? But that goes back to the whole fit thing. I just really liked that team for him. He had Holiday,

who could guard the other team's point guard, but play off the ball on the other end. He had Davis. It was lob central. Who are the lob guys on this Lakers team? Who's he throwing lobs the ball on the other end. He had Davis. It was lob central. Who are the lob guys on this Lakers team? Who's he throwing lobs to? Right, other than JaVale. JaVale, who?

Kuzma, I guess, a little. I don't know. So in the 2016 finals, what was their crunch time? It was LeBron, Kyrie, Thompson, JR, and Richard Jefferson, right? So think about this is the team that LeBron had the most success with over the last six years

and it's basically Thompson as kind of a rim runner rebounder help defender center not traditional center. Because Thompson was like in and out but then against Golden State like they didn't box him out for three or four games and he killed him. So him rebounding.

Jefferson is just like good perimeter defender. And then just somebody in the corner to hit an open shot. JR just as a three-point shooter, just fearless. Well, that's what everybody loved him again. He took his shirt off. He hit a bunch of shots. Kyrie is the second scorer slash second creator. So my question is, if I'm putting together...

So basically, he's the power forward in that lineup. So if I'm putting together another lineup with LeBron, already I'm screwed because Kuzma... What is Kuzma? He's a four, right? He's not a three. I think you can get away with him as a three. You can get away with it, but it's not great.

So, all right, let's say Kuzma's in the Jefferson role yeah okay probably not ever going to be the defender but so Ingram is in the J.R. Smith role I don't feel great about that the Kyrie

role is like there's you know it's crazy and this is really speaks to his game. We left out Kevin Love. Oh, wow. That's terrible, but it's actually kind of weirdly fitting. Yeah. All right, so let me start over.

Sorry, Kevin Love. They played seven guys in game seven. So he was playing... It was LeBron Thompson. Yeah, Tristan played 32 minutes, which you would think like, because then that shifted where there were other matchups. So it was LeBron, Love, Thompson, Jefferson, Kyrie.

So JR was on the bench. I'm imagining, well, JR played 38 minutes in game seven and Jefferson played 25 minutes. So, I mean, well, J.R. played 38 minutes in game seven and Jefferson played 25 minutes. So, I mean, I go back. I just remember the defense. How the hell did the Golden State Warriors score 13 points in the fourth quarter of game seven? They just wore down from that streak.

And I don't think Curry was healthy. And then. You seriously think because they went for 73 games, then it kicked in in game seven? That's when they actually got tired? No, I just think I think that season was a grind. And I think they

ran out of gas to some degree. But the real problem was Barnes died in the last two games. Barnes couldn't hit a shot. Festus Azili turned the ball over. Curry throws it around his back out of bounds. Iguodala gets blocked. No, remember, Kerr had to take out Barnes. Barnes was so bad

in that game. Barnes couldn't hit a shot. He literally had to take him out with six minutes left. Festus blew two layups. Yeah, but Festus blew two layups. No, but Festus also gave up two threes to LeBron. Or one he fouled him, and then the other one LeBron made it. Right.

But I always thought that was a microcosm game. They just didn't have the fifth guy they trusted. See, I just refuse to believe because they went for 73 wins that all of a sudden it kicked in but I always thought like that was a microcosm game. Like they just didn't have the fifth guy. They trust. I just refused to believe. Cause they went for 73 wins that all of a sudden it kicked in right then and there. I don't think it's a kick in. I think it's just, I think they just played a lot of like high level playoff type basketball.

And they just seemed like it was just too much. They folded. You watch that game. They were, they didn't even score in the last five minutes. No, no, you just kept like, when it was over, you went, wow, Cleveland just too much. They folded. You watch that game, they didn't even score in the last five minutes. When it was over, you went, wow, Cleveland just won this? You just never... I mean, Golden State still feels

that way. Whenever they're down in the fourth quarter, you're still sitting there going, all right, whatever. Well, it's a great what if because there's two different what ifs. One was that OKC just should have beaten them in game six and Durant and Westbrook were both atrocious. So you get that.

Then you have the Draymond punching LeBron. Like if you go back and watch game four of Golden State Cleveland, Golden State and Cleveland, they're up 2-1. And this is like the game you figure Cleveland's going to rig it or the NBA's going to rig it with the refs for Cleveland or whatever, just trying to extend the series. And Golden State goes and they haymaker them and they win. They pull it out down the stretch.

And that was it. And then Draymond ends up getting suspended. But that series should have been over in five, I think. Yeah, it should have been. But that's another point that I always bring up where it's, so how are they, like the 73 win pursuit? They weren't tired until after that. Like that did change everything.

I actually thought they were tired in the OKC series. They really had to reach deep for that. And I think it's really tough to do that two series in a row. Where you're really reaching into the deep recesses of your soul to pull it

out, they should not have beaten OKC. At the end of that OKC series, and granted, you're down 3-1 anyway, but they played with an urgency that had to be mentally exhausting. That's my point. But if it were exhausting, then I don't think you would have gone up 3-1

against Cleveland. I look at it like the 87 Celtics, my favorite team ever that didn't win a title. And they went to the depths of death with Milwaukee in round two. They're down 10 points with six minutes left in game seven. They've pulled that out. Then the next

series, Detroit, the famous bird steals the ball. Game seven is just a bloodbath. They just pull it out. And by the time they got to the finals, it's just hard. It's hard to keep doing that round after round. Okay, but I just, even if that's all true,

there's no way that I accept that as the number one. The number one reason is LeBron and Kyrie. Number two reason is Draymond screw up. Number three reason, like there's different. For me, number one is Draymond. Number two is, I think Curry was probably 75%. Yeah, he wasn't driving the way he normally is, but he also had different games. He was just all three-pointers and jumpers. And then the third reason, I think Curry was probably 75%. Yeah. He wasn't driving the way he normally is, but he also had three pointers and jumpers. And then the third reason I think is that Harrison Barnes just

cratered like, but they couldn't play him in crunch time of the biggest game of their season because he was so bad. Um, let's take a break. And then I want to talk about what we would do if we were Mitch Kupchak and Rob Polenka right now. Looking at what we are, where we are, and what the summer's coming. Are we talking just Hornets traits here? Whatever we want. What's up with Mitch? What did I say?

Mitch Kupchak. I meant Magic Johnson. Sorry, Magic. Mitch is like, wait a minute. Do I get to come back? If we were Magic Johnson and Rob Poenka having lunch today and Jeannie Buss said, you guys got to figure this out. What would that conversation sound like? That's coming up right after this. Let's take a break to talk about Zoom. When you use Zoom, every day is a little bit better with the web's best reviewed video

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And since we're here, don't forget about the rewatchables. We are putting up a new one this week. It is Reality Bites. We're dropping it on Wednesday. And I'm at the Sloan Conference in Boston for the tail end of this week, interviewing Adam Silver on Friday. And hopefully we'll have that for you next week. So stay tuned for that.

Apologies again to Kevin Love for forgetting that he was out there in game seven of the finals and was an all-star, I think, that year. I got to be honest with you, I think it kind of made sense. You think it made sense? Yeah. So here are the Lakers. 2019, LeBron is on the Lakers. 2019. LeBron is on the books for $37.4 million.

Lonzo is $8.7. That's kind of brutal. Yeah, those rookie scales are the top. They'll be reciting that next CBA. People are like, man, they really missed Lonzo's defense. It's like Lonzo is the most up and down guy. I love Lonzo, but he's the most up and down guy they had. This is not the reason that they're in a tailspin

because Lonzo's not out there. You love Lonzo. I do love Lonzo. I think- Is there something I'm missing there? I don't know that I ever heard you say this before. I'm buying everyone's Lonzo stock. I'm still buying.

Because you think like on a new team by himself- If I'm the right team in the right situation, that guy's going to be lights out. Ingram 7.3. Kuzma and Hart are 4.0 combined. And then they have two more contracts, Wagner and Bunga, 3.5. So that's 61 million total.

And I think the cap is a little over 100, so they got 40 million to play with. The big moves are they could, you know, obviously Lonzo has value, so does Ingram. Kuzma, you could argue, two million a obviously Lonzo has value. So does Ingram. Kuzma, you could argue a 2 million a year is one of the best deals in the league. He's not an all-star,

but that's a pretty nice deal. Here are the free agents. Kyrie, Horford, Kemba, Durant, Clay, Bledsoe,

Middleton, Randall Vucevic, Butler, JJ Redick, Kawhi, Ricky Rubio. Those are the top ones. So,

Magic Johnson, how would you say to the Lakers? What do we do? What do we do? Well, Davis is still your number one thing here, okay? Because, all right, let's map this out. How do you feel about Kyrie coming back to Boston now, based on all the different people that we talk to and all that kind of stuff? We can be less responsible than others, right?

Can we be less responsible? Well, someone can still take a quote from this and then blame us when it doesn't go that way but oh that's that's a new segment we have at the end of the podcast what's going to be blown out of proportion right um i would drive kairi to the airport at this point and make sure his bags were packed and make sure he got on the plane to new york and that was a one-way ticket but that's just me it took a lot longer to get to the celtic stuff and this one is no that this one but i i do want to jump because when when when boston without kairi beat philly in philly i still looked at the east and went it's it's toronto milwaukee and i think the best version of philly is scary as hell and maybe the best version of this and that's all i said and i

couldn't believe boston fans and look i i know how this works, but Boston fans being like, are you serious? Oh, you know, let us, you're going to regret saying this, and I think, what team have you watched? What team have you watched in Boston that gives you any indication, there's any evidence that you know that they're going to be good, and to lose some of the games that they've recently

lost, to lose to the Bulls? Are you kidding? It's not just the losses. How are we talking about the Celtics? It's not just the losses how are we talking about the Celtics it's not just the losses it's it's the spirit and intensity of these games when Kyrie is out there and it's interesting Dean Oliver did this tweet because people are like well well Kyrie he's the most efficient guy they have the numbers are so much better when he's out there. But then there are all these numbers about the guys when Kyrie's not playing versus the guys when Kyrie's just not in the game, but he is playing. And everybody's numbers, when Kyrie's just not going to play tonight,

everybody's numbers are so much better than in a situation where he did play, but he's just resting and that's weird i i can't explain that but it does back what i'm watching on the eye test which is they play harder when he's not when he's not suited up i don't know what it is but the like the net rating with him versus without him was dramatically different in favor of them being better without kairi but there are people plenty of people around the league they they're like, now, who cares? Just watch, watch. It's a Kyrie thing. Nobody likes it. The whole reason I'm bringing this up, and by the way, Horford's

a $30 million player option. So, when you said, okay, you think he's available? I just didn't know if you were saying he was straight up. I think there's a world in which he opts out with the way the tampering goes. If a team like the Lakers are like like if you opt out

we'll give you 120 million for four years definitely i think that would seem high because i don't even think you would get that from just think all these teams have cap space everybody tampers and somebody's gonna send them a feeling and be like opt out we'll give you 120 i don't think it has to be 120 or one what if you go Four for 90. So anyway, back to the Lakers. Yeah, okay. But the whole point on that is that you and I don't, like, however that shifted of Kyrie and all the positivity, that's a done deal.

It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Like, nobody seems to feel that anymore. The bigger picture issue is you're investing a five-year, 200 million plus contract into somebody who, it just doesn't seem like this situation is going to get happier.

That would be my fear. Now, from a talent standpoint, you're like, this is one of the nine to 10 guys in the league that matter. We got to do this. If we put better veterans around him, we can save it. The other side is like, well, you're just going to let him leave? He lose an asset for nothing. And it's like, well, if he stays, he could, our other assets might depreciate. What happens to maybe Jalen Brown leaves in two years. And then, yeah, then I'm doing a Hail Mary

trade for Tatum. And now I'm built around Kyrie and Anthony Davis, two guys who can't seem to decide what they want week to week. And that. And now I'm being held hostage by those guys and those are my two big money guys. Where is that getting me? I don't know. There's a path to the Boston thing getting really ugly and it feels like a season. It's like six months. I understand why you did everything you did. Wow, none of it's

going to work. I know that's not what you wanted to do. We can go back to that at the end. If you're the Lakers, though, here's the, here's the biggest thing I'd be worried about now. It's not even Boston trading for him. It's not even like the Katie Kyrie, Anthony Davis,

New York Knicks, Hail Mary that the Knicks fans seem to think is happening. It's more realistic to me now that Davis could just resign with the Pelicans. This summer that he could look at all his options. Was that on the list of 29 teams though? It was, it was. So who was the team that was left out? I think he left out Memphis. Wait a minute. What? So let me, let me walk you through this. Yeah, please do. If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm going to the Lakers. I'm playing with LeBron James, who is now going to be in year 18.

This is my sidekick. All these other teams that he's had that have been unhappy, they'd have to gut the team to trade for me. So now it's just me and him and some free agent I hope we get. Am I in a better situation just because I get to live in LA now? I'm sacrificing 70 million bucks, something like that. Am I better off just re-signing with New Orleans and then pushing them to make a trade in like a year?

That's my point. Is it worth sacrificing? I think it's like 60, 70 million, something like that, to go to a situation that might be worse. At some point, it's just financially- You think the Lakers situation, you think there's a real argument to be made that the Lakers situation would be worse

than the Pelican situation? What have they done from a front office standpoint over the last six years that makes you think that that's a competent organization? A serious question. They get zero credit for getting LeBron. Like, that seems ridiculous to me. Like, oh, you ended up getting him when people weren't sure what was going to happen. Or maybe you don't want to give him any credit because he just wanted to come here.

But, you know, whatever. The result is the result. All right, I'll give him a little credit. That's fair. Some people want to give him zero credit for getting LeBron. That's not fair. I'll give him a little credit. They deserve more than like, some people want to give him zero credit for getting LeBron. That's not fair. 25% credit. Okay.

He wanted to live in LA. It's buying houses here. It's colder here in the winter than I was told. But if you're, all right, so if you're Anthony Davis, yeah. Would you sacrifice $70 million to play with the Lakers?

Not with a guy with the injury history that he has, but as we know, there's a way he can do some year-to-year stuff where he can kind of recoup close to what he'd be turning down for that designated player deal. If you're Anthony Davis, would you want to go to Boston and play with Kyrie Irving, who has been one of the top three most erratic superstars

I'd rather play with a lot of people than Kyrie. I wouldn't be crazy about that plan. If you're Anthony Davis, would you'd rather play with a lot of people than kairi i wouldn't be crazy about that plan if you're anthony davis would you want to play with the knicks and play with kd kemba and whatever zion zion whatever pick they get the knicks actually are becoming more and more appealing which is amazing to me but if katie coming coming out of All-Star Weekend, it's like, Katie's going to the Knicks. I'd be stunned at this point if that didn't happen. Do they not realize that

when they move the whole business operation in New York City that everybody's kind of like, oh, so this is a done deal? Yeah, that seemed like a red flag. Right, okay. Him repeatedly signing the one and done contracts.

I'm just saying, these guys get annoyed about people talking about him. And you're like, yes, but you do things that... The LA home purchase thing is at least... You can argue some of it just because so many guys have houses out here that are never going to play here. Hey, Brian, two houses worth 43 million bucks. It's probably a sign you're a fan of. And everybody you do business with is living here.

Yeah, right. Those are red flags. Okay, so anyway. So we're going back to your Anthony Davis is signing with the Pelicans thing. No, no. I just think it's more realistic than it was two weeks ago. So let's say the Pelicans sell the team in the next three months. They bring some new hotshot owner in and he's like, I'm spending money.

The first thing I'm doing, I'm not trading Anthony Davis. I want to keep him. We have a huge advantage right now. We can overpay him. He's one of the best power forwards of all time. I'm building my team around him. We're going to spend some money. We're not going to be a small market team.

If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm like, all right, I'll sign the contract. I'll give you a year and then I'll push out if I have to so it would just be this year it'd be 1920 and then you'd have to revisit this again next summer

in like December here's where I would say I don't think that's going to happen I don't know if a sale is done if it would happen would you bet your life

against it? I wouldn't well here's what I would say about Davis is that he's impressionable and I think his comments prove that he doesn't I wouldn't. Well, here's what I would say about Davis, is that he's impressionable. And I think his comments prove that he doesn't really know what the hell's going on

or he wasn't as aware. I shouldn't put it that way. I don't think he truly understood how this works. And it was, okay, I signed with Clutch. You know, they can get me out of here, but I don't have to look like the bad guy necessarily. And then that got all screwed up. And then when he goes to All-Star Weekend and says,

hey, all 29 teams are on the list, then you're like, wow, you really don't get this. So that tells me that he's impressionable. He's somebody that reacts to how he's being covered. He's 25. No, that's fine. But we forget like these guys aren't finished products. You know, he's a dude that He's 25. No, that's fine. But we forget, like these guys aren't finished products.

You know, he's a dude that was at Kentucky for a year. He was living in New Orleans playing for the Pelicans the last seven. Was really not in the spotlight. Doesn't seem to have

that many people around him. Switched his agents and is kind of just figuring it out. And is probably really impressionable. And Rich Paul's like, we're going to do this.

We're going to get you to the Lakers. We're going to put you in Space Jam 2 and he's like yeah that sounds cool let's go and then they don't get him to the Lakers but why then would he decide okay you guys didn't get me to the Lakers so now

I'm calling my own shot now here a little bit like I would imagine he's already over the New Orleans thing and that he's still imagine he's already over the New Orleans thing and that he still, because he's aligned with those guys, he still feels like LA is the best spot for him. That's the thing I think you're underselling. Maybe it's the Clippers?

I don't know what the Clippers are going to do. I mean, everybody seems to think it's just Kawhi first and then... I guess I'm looking at this more from these guys seem to change their mind. There's an ebb and flow to what guys think is the best

situation for them in this league that is just super fast. Where you had that Kyrie three months ago, you'd be like, ah, this guy could be a Celtic for life. And now I'm like, this guy's probably not going to be on the team next year. Yeah, but I think that's Kyrie playing everybody.

You have KD signing with Golden State three years ago. This is where I'm going to be. This is the best basketball situation. And now, halfway through his third year, he's already moving operations to New York. I just think this stuff moves fast. And I'm prepared

for anything with Davis, is my point. People are like, with Davis is my point people are like well we go to the Lakers we go to the Knicks it's like I think we should also at least list the possibility that he just takes the money and stays in New Orleans now alright back to the magic plinka thing not Mitch not Mitch Kupchak because he's

in Charlotte they don't have a lot of Hail Marys here you asked me to do this last night and I was like man I was doing over it this morning it's quick so yeah go ahead Mitch Kupchak, because he's in Charlotte. They don't have a lot of Hail Marys here. You asked me to do this last night, and I was like, man, I was doing it over this morning. It's quick. So yeah, go ahead. Your Hail Marys for the Lakers.

Why didn't Paul George go there last summer? Let's start there. There's two possible explanations. Well, one of your explanations is my favorite conspiracy theory ever. Go ahead. That there was so much tampering that Adam just said, Explanations. Well, one of your explanations is my favorite conspiracy theory ever. Go ahead. That there was so much tampering that Adam just said, this ends now. You're not going there.

That's one. Can I ask a follow-up on that? Yeah. Is that just your theory? I've heard stuff. Okay. But who knows? I don't know.

I don't know. When you first... Some of your theories theories I'm like what who did how alone were you this day other theories the Paul George one that you just go

so much went on that you could I think it's underselling the fact that he legitimately seems to like the lifestyle in Oklahoma city. Okay. So that's second there. And then the third theory is over the course of the year,

he decided he just didn't want to play with LeBron and maybe talk to some people and was just like, I don't know if I want to hitch my wagon to this guy. And I think that's actually the most realistic of all the theories, especially when you have, he's with CAA, LeBron's with Clutch, and CAA, obviously there's huge ravels. Rich Paul leaves CAA to start Clutch. CAA should have known though. And those guys, CAA's poisoning him against Clutch and just being like, you don't want to go LeBron,

all these guys aren't happy. Here's this story, that story, this story. You love Westbrook, you should just stay here and go for the money. And they talk him into it. I think that's a bad sign for LeBron with these free agents. And this is something that Windhorse has talked about a bunch of times and a couple other people have too, that there's a fear of going there because if LeBron's team wins, everyone praises LeBron and he gets all the credit. And if LeBron's team loses, everyone else is to blame and he doesn't get any of the blame. So I think other people see that and go, well,

why would that, why do I want to do that? Especially if I'm not guaranteed a title, you know? But that's what was so weird about the George thing is I think those are concerns that other players do have, but I don't think it's all the players. Like now this is turning into nobody ever wants to play with LeBron. And you're like, well, look, think it's all the players. Now this is turning into nobody ever wants to play with LeBron. And you're like, well, look, Anthony Davis wanted to go there. And I still believe that he wants to go there. I thought Paul George wanted to go there at some point. So either he really loves Westbrook and really loves Oklahoma City or some of that stuff changed his mind. But the great thing about George is that if you are that alpha like a Westbrook or a LeBron, he's actually okay

with it. He's okay fitting in. He's the opposite of Jimmy Butler. Do you think this Paul George thing would have happened if he was on the Lakers? What he's done this season? Because I don't. MVP? The fact that he's basically been the best forward in the league?

I don't count Giannis as a forward. What do you have him as a center? I don't even. He has no position. He's just an alien. He's an A. I don't think Le he has no position. He's just an alien. He's an A. I don't think LeBron would have mind deferring though. You know,

look, if it can happen with Westbrook, actually, I do think it could happen with anybody. Okay. Honestly, if it's happening with Westbrook, that would be the guy you think.

So let's start there. Yeah. That's a catastrophe now. If, if I actually think it's realistic, it could have happened with LeBron. Cause it just, how good he is athletically and as a two-way player and how he's gone up a level, it could have happened.

Them not getting Paul George is a catastrophe. Because all of the money they spent, it's KCP and Lance Stevenson, all those guys. If they just had Paul George with Kuzma and Ingramov, that's a really interesting team. Josh Hart, Lonzo. You could finish those four. It would probably ruin

Ingram because Kuzma finds a way. Kuzma's effort level. You probably trade Ingram in January, February for something. Anyway, I wonder if people would sign there. There's a lot of other appealing options even the Clippers

versus the Lakers you just look at organization versus organization you're not tying your destiny to somebody who's got three years left on his deal who's going to be in year 18 who knows we saw it with Kobe when it's over it's over

that's it you just go with Kobe. When it's over, it's over. It's just kind of, that's it. You just go on the downhill and it's over. No, that's always kind of funny because it'll be like if it's a certain guy, you'd think he's just invincible. The way we talk about it, we're like, well, Kobe, nobody's going to want it as bad as he is. And you go, no, it's over. It's over.

Peyton Manning, he could play forever. We're dealing with Tom Brady now. One of these years, it's just going to be over for Tom Brady and that's going to be it. He's going to be terrible statistically and then people will go, you can't quit on him though. And you'll just be like, what am I supposed to do? It's week 10.

Yeah, he can't throw it out. So that Kemba Walker, let's say they talk it into, oh, in 2016, LeBron had the Kyrie. Now here's Kemba. Kemba could be the Kyrie. Would you do that? Would you spend $30 million a year for Kemba Walker?

Make him the number two. I like Kemba a lot. And I was watching him again. Was it last night? I mean, Zeller really went off. So I was more locked into Zeller. A lot of Zeller. A lot of Zeller last night.

But when I look at Kemba with the rules and the way it's officiated, you can't touch him. So I think he's always going to be able to get open. Like, he's just that quick. His dribble side to side. I'm not just talking about, like, crossovers, but the way he finds. Like, I'll watch him. Because on paper, whenever I look at the bill that's due Kemba, I go, you what i would just do and be like hey you're a heck of a player i'm not paying you that i'm sorry but that's not really what we're asking we're asking hey when you're desperate

and you can't add anybody else is kemba better than four players you're not getting their role guys you're not getting clay thompson i don't think i think yeah uh you're not getting Klay Thompson, I don't think. I think Klay's staying. Yeah. You're not getting Kawhi. Because I think Kawhi would have pushed for that last year. He didn't. So now I'm already in the second tier of free agents. Now I'm looking at Al Horford, hoping he opts out. I'm looking for Eric Bledsoe, clutch client.

Chris Middleton. Bledsoe's been really good this year. Chris Middleton. Julius Randall. been really good this year Chris Middleton Julius Randle Nick Vucevic JJ Redick like this goes back to my point like

the Lakers are fucked if this Davis trade doesn't come through or unless they can convince Kyrie or Kemba Walker to come there's no roadmap for them to even

really be a contender I don't think the fact that Kyrie thing is even a real thing is incredible and speaks to everything you're talking about like we're locked into what we think is gonna happen and then all of a sudden it's like imagine if you had said before the season starts to be like hey you know what i could imagine around february this thing where it feels like it's a real opportunity for

kairi to go to la to play with lebron you'd be like what the fuck yeah it's insane like i'm not gonna do we book you every week we're so long yeah we're gonna do like once a month with you um that'd be like i'm feeling a rossillo john dennis podcast like what who shoot uh so i i look at kemba as as not a perfect thing at all i I wouldn't like that bill, but what you're doing here is what the teams are doing. As you run through all these scenarios, I'm sure half the GMs that sign some of these contracts go, Jesus, I don't want to sign this guy for this. But you have to. And Kemba's better than some of those other opportunities. It's the same thing as Jimmy Butler. I don't know who's going to give Jimmy everything. He's going to get a two-year deal.

Right. I don't know that he's going to Jimmy everything. He's going to get a two-year deal. Right. I don't know that he's going to get everything he wants, but I can understand a team. Tobias Harris is another one. Oh, you do. Sorry, Tobias. So. But see, doesn't it feel like, and this is not really going on anything.

No, but it feels like with Tobias, you're going, is he the guy that, like the Sixers have to sign one of those two guys. I think they signed Tobias. Right. Yeah. So you just go through the teams. Now you start talking, if you're the Lakers,

all right, well, what if we take a chance on somebody? What if you take a chance on an expensive superstar? So now I'm in the Blake Griffin conversation. So let's say Detroit wants to get, I mean, Detroit's been playing well lately. I thought they were going to miss the playoffs.

It actually seems like they might make the playoffs. Reggie Jackson has like a monster game the other night. He can be good for like a month where you're like, oh, Reggie Jackson. But let's say Detroit wants to get out of that contract. Lakers package some stuff and they get Blake. I don't think that makes them a contender. I think LeBron and Blake is a weird combination.

So that doesn't work. I'm going to keep going. But see, I don't think any of this stuff, these are weird combinations. Kevin Love? No. Dame Lillard has been open about, I don't want to leave Portland.

I love it here. So now CJ McCollum, does that change the game for LA? No. The only guy who I think would have been a really fascinating one is Towns. And now Towns has become untradeable because basically since Butler left, he's been on a tear.

And the potential that he's shown to be maybe a first-team All- nba guy in a year or two i think he's now untradeable so he's not on the table i just don't know what the options are well i don't i don't either other than i think it's all all in for davis and i'm still you know i was watching i don't know if it was a player's only broadcast like nba tv has been doing some different things now with these these broadcasts where they had like a studio watching a game and then just talking over the game

the whole time. And I think... Yeah, it's... I hate it. Well, what's happening is that because it's this conversational thing, which I think Van Gundy and Jackson and Breen

do a really good job with where they'll call the game. Yeah. And then there'll be these moments where they kind of hit a radio topic. Yeah. And if you balance it right, it's great. You still need a play-by-play guy right but when you do it the whole game and nothing's going on with the game and you never let the game breathe and you

talk the whole two and a half hours and it's just non-stop that's when i hit the mute button it's it's it's it's too much and that's you're right that's the play-by-play guy reigning all this stuff in but there's all these guys that still feel like that Lakers offer was like this really great offer for Davis. And it always surprises me. I don't quite get why anybody wouldn't want to wait around to figure out what the better options are. But are we still, we're still doing plank and magic? Because I have one more option for you. Well, what about, what if you said,

is it Bradley Beal? No. All right. Let's be terrible the rest of the year. Let's throw it away. Let's try to get like a top seven pick because that will help us get Davis. Let's get LeBron to shut down,

come up with some fake injury. And the problem is, if he shuts it down, the young guys could actually potentially play better. They're not that far out. They're 29 and 31 right now. There's only four teams worse than them. Their schedule's brutal at the end.

Brutal schedule. There's only four teams worse than them in the West. Unfortunately for them, Jesus, there's four teams worse than them in the West. Unfortunately for them, Jesus, there's eight teams worse than them in the East. I don't know the answer. It's probably not. Yeah, I don't, like, the Hail Mary for them is, I still

would put faith into being able to convince Davis because he signed with the same agency to be able to get him here. But what's fascinating is you can't even come up with a plan B and I can't either. What's plan B if Davis doesn't come through? This is my whole point. I don't know what their plan B is. This has a chance to head to a direction where a year from now, he's like, you guys got to

trade me. So now you're calling for, here's the thing that'll be, we'll put this at the end of the podcast. The thing that people, Simmons says, Lakers will have to trade LeBron. LeBron will ask for trade. Oh, the blowout of proportion thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now the blowout of proportion is going to be me saying I would drive Kyrie to the airport at this point. I'm just angry. I'm angry about the Kyrie thing. I'm not even rational anymore. Don't listen to me on Kyrie. No, I agree with you about the plan B thing

because, I mean, this stuff is hard. It's hard, but it's always worked before. It's always worked. You go to Miami, boom, it works. Okay, now I'm going back to Cleveland. And that's why when this whole thing put together, now, if he hadn't missed 18 games, they're in the playoffs,

maybe it doesn't seem as dire. Maybe people are ignoring some of the same stuff that was happening at the beginning of the year, even though he had this nice defensive stretch, I think, before he had gotten hurt. But what it'll end up being is too much money for Jimmy Butler or too much money for Kemba. So is that the Hail Mary Jimmy Butler? Yeah, and the thing is, I don't think Jimmy was even a preferable guy. I'm not even talking for the Lakers.

I'm not sure LeBron. What do you think they actually need? Because I think they need a scoring guard. That would be my number one draft pick. My number two draft pick would be a rebound rim protector. I actually don't think they need another wing. I think they

need like a Damian Lillard, Kemba Walker, Kyrie type, and I think they need like a Miles Turner type. Those would be my two preferences. Because defensively, they're atrocious, and offensively, they're a mess. They're way up

and down. I always think that anybody, basketball-wise, you have to figure out a way to fit in around LeBron, but the reason everybody gets so excited about this team was that this is the best athlete he's ever played with. they're gonna be able to run it you know the pace is up and it was i don't know how much the pace has changed since he's come back uh i mean lillard would be the guy i think lillard's somebody he's wanted to play with for such a long

time but lillard's not exactly good defensively. I mean, Lillard's always on the other guy when, when they're matched up against another good point guard. I have one more guy for you. Is it taking on Wall's contract to get Beal? Carmelo. So this is back to your tank thing. Oh, wait a second.

Taking on John Wall's contract to get Beal. This is what I was thinking about. Did you make that up? Yeah, on the ride over today. Is that a Rosilla special? Really? Would you? I mean, it feels a bit like Otis Smith, you know, where...

Let me see how that would work. It's brutal. I don't even know if they can get to that number. So that would be... Wow, this is a good... I'm kind of jealous of this one. So you're saying, so you're saying they would,

they would have all this, they would have like 40 million in cap space. They take Beal and they take John Wall. Is Beal good enough to take on Wall? Which is like 44 million bucks. And they just kind of absorb... Well, actually, that goes up because Wall's extension kicks in next year.

So it's probably like 55 million. Here, I'll have it here in a second. Yeah, it's so bad. I mean, it's 57. It's 70... No, no, no, no. Yeah, is it... Oh, my God.

64 million? For those two next year? That you would have to trade 60 yeah so you'd have to go i mean it's a little more 40 million in cap i wouldn't do that i think you could get there i mean i always feel like you can always find a way if you want to so you isn't good enough to take on and beale's been awesome okay like there's certain things with beale some nights like would you agree that even if we both really like beale there are moments where you go if you're really one of those guys it's more consistent and it seems like he's better how funny would it be to we've seen him put go on this tear without wall

and then it's like actually we traded for both of you guys so you actually you're still gonna play with them unless you could redirect wall somehow that doesn't make sense probably impossible but wall two years ago i mean incredible so could you talk if you had no other options could you take on both of those deals telling you you're gonna get back in like december yeah so you'd have to trade i don't even think it works wall's a clutch guy i don't even i don't even think there's a way to make it work you'd have to basically trade all your young guys for that Wall's a clutch guy. I don't even think there's a way to make it work. You'd have to basically trade all your young guys for that. I don't think that works.

44, 64, you got to get... You got to put Lonzo and Ingram in the deal. And then you're getting rid of everything. Like that's who you are. Yeah. I don't know if that works. So all the eggs are in the Davis basket. What would be your dream?

You're the biggest LeBron fan ever. What's your pipe dream? What's your pipe dream move? Is it you make the Davis trade, but then you also get who? Klay Thompson? Kemba? This is what you do. Davis? But see, then Iba? This is what you do. Davis? But see, then I don't know what's left over.

Because once you do the Davis trade, same way, like I don't know what's left over to trade. Like the other piece has to be a free agent. But I would do Davis and then I would talk to Kendrick Lamar and have him sign Lillard to his record label. Three album deal. Are you excited for LeBron's album with 2 Chainz? It's coming out on March 1st.

Is he really going to do this? Yeah. I'm not. He's heavily involved. LeBron, hold on. Actually, let's take a break. The new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done whether you're on the field or running a business.

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with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. Talking about LeBron quick. LeBron, with the speech about how the young guys have to just breathe basketball and they have to be all about basketball and whatever. And meanwhile, he's the host of the shop. He's doing it out with two shades. He's bringing back Space Jam. He owns multiple companies. He's going to Duke for random Chains. He's bringing back Space Jam. He owns multiple companies. He's going to Duke for random reasons

to see Zion Williamson in person on an off day. One of the most hypocritical moments in the recent history of the National Basketball Association. I really enjoyed it. I was thinking about something for The Ringer. Yeah. You, me, Chris Ryan, and whatever other two white guys we can find we have a show called the ship and we do it we do it from a boat we talk about different issues

the ship like a like a sailboat rowboat we have to dress up like the guys in Yacht Rock? Yeah. Cardigans. Talking hoops. Chris Ryan has to wear a bucket hat. Every episode, I'll do a whole spiel about how sports is a business. Man, it's a business, man. I'm just playing that one upstairs.

It's a business. People forget that. It's a business. Yeah. The ship. The ship. I like it. Let's a business. People forget that. It's a business. Yeah. The ship. The ship. I like it. Let's workshop that. Are we done talking about LeBron?

I don't think he has any outs, and I actually think this could lead to him getting traded eventually. I don't know if it's him getting traded. I just think it'll get to, like, everything we've talked about here, none of this is, like, the Hail Mary the Hail Mary path of what could they actually do. That's why this is so hard, right? But you could see there's a real easy narrow. We could be in the beginning of stages of how bad this could end up looking.

And I think that's the whole point that we're making here, the point that you're making, that I agree with, that they could whiff again this summer. This could really be a disaster. This, the closest parallel I can think of is when the Kobe, Dwight Howard, Nash, Gasol, was it Gasol?

Who was the fourth guy? Yeah, Gasol. Yeah, Gasol. And that kind of cratered fast. And then it became clear at some point that there was no way out. And this was going to be really bad for a couple of years. And it happened abruptly. And now it seems like, oh yeah, of course that made sense. Nash was broken down. Dwight Howard is Dwight

Howard. But at the time I was like, holy shit, this might, this might really go south on these guys. And it did. Well, remember you guys covered it quite a bit on Countdown. And you lost your mind. A-block every episode. I'll never forget watching it. You were like, do people? But it just kept, we're like, when is it going to click? When's it going to click? And it just never did.

But that team on paper at least felt like it was supposed to be competitive. This team, for the Lakers, even LeBron had been healthy the whole time. If everything else is right, I didn't think they'd be ahead of, I didn't think they'd be a four seed, maybe a five seed at best. Would you trade for Lonzo if you were another team? You know, I think the problem with Lonzo

is that we get a sampling of what LeVar is still about. And, you know, I actually had more respect for lavar when he just didn't give a shit yeah and you allowed yourself to be muted because lebron didn't want to hear from you so i actually even though i don't like any of it i respected him more when like you what hey man you're big baller brand like and you let somebody kind of just shut you up for a few months you think he got punked a little bit yeah okay so come on lavar the fact that that happened this year and i'm about to trade for his son like his dad is gonna just the next stop if he's on another team it's gonna be brutal yeah and it's pointless i mean some of this stuff is stupid like

well i couldn't believe they wouldn't put my son in the summer league. Come on, dude. You know, every coach sucks. He doesn't even talk like, oh, they take him out after eight minutes. Well, it's a pretty standard pattern to substituting in the NBA that, you know, a lot of people understand. So I like him with a certain team. I just feel like the father's going to go off again. And if I have a weak coaching staff or I have an unproven GM, I wouldn't be thrilled to sign on for that.

Rough times for the Lakers. Let's talk about Dirk Nowitzki. That was pretty cool. That was really cool last night with Doc Rivers. If you're Dirk Nowitzki, would you want to be going through this this year or do you wish you retired or what? Do you like being trotted out as like this, oh, remember that guy? Oh, you were really great and now you're not great anymore

but let's, one more round of applause for the great Dirk Nowitzki. Would you feel good about that or bad about that? I would personally enjoy it, but part of me wonders if he enjoys it or if he's embarrassed by it. I think he's enjoyed it. I do.

Seems like he's enjoyed it. Yeah. And those kinds of things that you always feel like, hey, look, if you're into it, that's fine. I wouldn't want to look like that running around for 11 minutes a night. I would have rather retired the year before. That's kind of how I feel. But I also, it's up to each person. Yeah, if he's into it. It's up to the individual. He clearly

has made peace with the fact that he can no longer really play basketball at even a medium high level. But he enjoys being on a team. He wanted to do the tour one more time. He likes Doncic. And he's going through it. But I always think about

these guys because I remember Bird in 92 just didn't want to go through it. But I always think about these guys because I remember Bird in 92 just didn't want to go through it. He was just like, like his last season, he averaged 20 a game. And he's like, yeah, I could be out there with a back brace for three more years getting checks,

but I don't want to do that. Other guys always kind of hang on for that extra year or two years. Usually it's the centers that's rough. Like Parrish had like three more years that nobody ever remembers where he's on like Charlotte and Chicago. Ewing had an extra two years.

Moses had some of that. Moses bounced around. Hakeem bounced around. Shaq was on the fucking Cavs and Celtics. Like there's always a couple. McGrady was on the Spurs. C-Web was on the Sixers. Carmelo had what he had the last year.

Not to put him in the class of those guys No, but Weber had, you're right Weber had, we always forget but I think once it gets to the level of like a Dirk, it gets a little weird for me, because I think he's one of the best like 16 of all time It gets back

to, like if he's having fun with it then I'm fine, I'm not going to knock it I'm not going to criticize it, it's rough to watch him run around though it was so like hey last year he's making some buckets and you're like all right and then i remember like the first dallas game i watched this year i went oh my god i'm like this looks really bad like wade clearly needs this wade is enjoying this and can still have and he can still have some nights yeah he's out there closing and he hits a couple buckets. But Wade, like they have the roast all-star weekend for him.

Yeah, that's weird. It's almost like he's doing his own thing that he wants to feel like it's separate from the achievements with LeBron. And that's cool too. I mean, he was an awesome player. And if that's what you want to do, who knows? So I don't blame Dirk for wanting to be out there at all. Like I'm never one of those dudes. Like I don't don't like it when people tell guys oh you should have done this you should have it should be up to the guy right it should be up to him it just if it were

me personally i would hate to be out there knowing like i can't run anymore it's pretty rough because it is it's weird that because i thought out of anybody he would be able to play until he was like 48. Because it wasn't like he was that coordinated or fluid to begin with. He did footwork, but he was always kind of lumbering. But now it's like his bottom half of his body is not working anymore. They had some tweet, I think two days ago, it was like, Dirk Nowitzki had a season high 15 points. It was an actual tweet.

I was like, that's his season-highest 15 points? Can you name... He's like a scrub. This is putting you on the spot. I love Dirk Nowitzki. That's the only reason I bring this up. Can you name the last few teams

that Moses Malone was on? Well, I remember there was Atlanta in the... After the two years, right, with Washington, after the Sixers traded him. He was a spur for like a year. That's so good.

There was one more that I'm forgetting. There's two more. Two more? So he was traded. That was the year he was traded for Brad Doherty in the 86 draft. Yeah. He had a nice little run in Washington. Wait a minute.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Brad Doherty was traded the number one pick. For Roy Hinson. Roy Hinson. No, Moses was

Jeff Rulon and Cliff Robinson. One of the worst trades ever. Not Uncle Cliffy. Cliff Robinson, former Globetrotter. Yeah. Right. Jeff Rulon.

Then he was with Atlanta. And the thing is, is when he was traded, dude, when he was traded to the Bullets, he was still only 31. Yeah. And he'd played like 100,000 minutes.

So he went to Atlanta. Then he was with Milwaukee. Oh, I forgot the Milwaukee. That's a good one. Two years. Then Philly again, 93, 94. I don't remember that one. 55 games.

93, 94. So that's after Barkley left. Yeah. Wow. He went back to Philly? And then Moses, 39 years old with the Spurs, still averaged 3-3 in nine minutes. That was good. Really good call on the Spurs.

I remember Hakeem was Toronto, but I think was there another team for him after that? The Toronto thing was over. Because when they got him, they felt like, oh, we have something here. And then it was over. It was it was. Which brings me back to the point with LeBron. That's it. Just that one year in Toronto.

Over. Ewing had the I think one or one Seattle year and then ended up in Orlando, I think. Had like a like at least one year. Yeah, in Orlando. I think. Had like at least one year as a Magic. But Parrish was like bouncing around through the mid-90s. Parrish has a ring from the Bulls. They had a free agent tracker. He was like on the bottom line.

So by the way, Hakeem's last year with Houston at 38, he still had a PER of 21. That was a good Houston team. That was the Barkley-Dredd. They were still kind of in the mix. And then as soon as he left, it was bad that last year with Toronto. All right, so let's do... Did you want Daniel Ewing's numbers or Patrick?

Daniel Ewing. Daniel Ewing. I hadn't thought about him in a while. So I want to do playoff matchups. Okay. We're going to do this every week until the playoffs just because I think it's fun. The East is rough.

So right now, if it ended today, we have Milwaukee and Charlotte in round one. Charlotte's 28-32. Milwaukee is almost at a 10-point differential, and that is going to be a sweep, and it's going to be ugly. Toronto-Detroit, Detroit's 8-2 in their last 10,

and they have a guy who I think is going to make the All-NBA, Blake Griffin. I think he's going to be a 13-all-NBA forward. Still not excited about that series, but at least it has a chance to be a little more competitive. Indiana Brooklyn is your 3-6.

I pick Brooklyn right now. I like Brooklyn as well. Philly-Boston is your 4-5. That's the worst possible thing for the Sixers. And for the league. That's a really bad first round. I'd rather see that in the Sixers. And for the league. That's a really bad first round. I'd rather see that in the second round.

Would you pick the Sixers right now or would you stay with Boston considering how well they seem to do against them? Because there's nothing makes me want to pick the Celtics against anybody, but there'd be certain things. The playoffs last year, watching that most recent game again,

Horford just gets up for Embiid. He's figured out Embiid in a slightly different way. It wasn't just that they lost to the Bulls, and I hate overreacting to regular season losses. They got destroyed by the Bulls. The Bulls had like 126 points.

Markkanen was like the best guy on the floor. I almost said out of would you trade Tatum for Markkanen tweet. Have you seen Markkanen's like last month he's unbelievable yeah he like when I do trade value again he's gonna have to be in like the top 20 how many white guys you're gonna have in your top five

you know what's weird about Markkinen he has he brings the ball up like off rebounds and has like ideas of what to do and can find people on fast breaks or like take it to the hole. And he's got, he's not like a dunk over people, but he's got this weird kind of leaner dirt game already where he's like in traffic bouncing off dudes and hit little bank

shots. And I really liked that guy's game. I was impressed. I'd seen him before that game but anyway Philly-Boston would be your 4-5 my guess is that Indiana Indiana's gonna drop I don't think that's sustainable the Celts are somehow two and a half games behind them we're at game 60

and so my guess would be Philly passes Indiana and then it's Indiana-Boston 4-5 right? I just I just kept waiting for the Pacers to keep losing. Like, okay, this isn't going to last.

It's going to last. They're going to start losing games. It's not going to last. They did the old everybody stepped up thing after Oladipo went out. But I don't think that's sustainable for three months. They've won eight or nine games. Yeah, I don't get it. Maybe we're both missing something. something well they're great defensively

let me ask you this Philly Brooklyn is that a slam dunk for Philly? because I kind of feel like it's not I don't believe this Brooklyn thing you watch them every night every one of their games is fun

everything's competitive. Russell, who is somebody I've never really liked, has figured some things out. They have... He's Harden-ish without the free throws. He really is. But I don't think I'd get that carried away.

I'd be more likely to pick Brooklyn against Boston than I would be against Philly. The all-time ironic playoff upset that's ever happened. Boston pillages their picks. The fact that Brooklyn's playoff upset that's ever happened. Boston pillages their picks. The fact that Brooklyn's a six seed after having that many... That's like going through a front office

scandal and losing picks. What they had to go through. And you're supposed to be terrible after that. And the fact they're competitive. Now, I don't know what it really means. Russell in these fourth quarters is one of the revelations of the whole season. I really feel like he can go

to toe-to-toe against any star in the league and get three-pointers and good shots. His own team, though, remember, this is months ago. I don't know.

I'm not going to bother looking it up. But remember the day they come back in Houston in overtime? They kept Dinwiddie on the floor and didn't put Russell back here. I remember.

And that's when I was still like, okay, Russell's just the high usage to put up the numbers. But like, this is Atkinson saying, yeah, all right, you know what? We made the run without him and we're not even going to put him back out on the floor. So I was like, okay, despite the numbers, despite people saying he's turned the corner, this is telling me everything I need to know. They're not putting him back out there. And I think Brooklyn did come back and win that game.

And is he restricted or unrestricted? him back out there. And I think Brooklyn did come back and win that game. And Is he restricted or unrestricted? I didn't I didn't put him in the Laker thing because obviously that would not

he's not resigning there. But I do feel like you know, if you're talking about Knicks guys and KD trying to put together the perfect team

to play with him would you rather have for the next five years Kyrie or Russell? and KD trying to put together the perfect team to play with him, would you rather have, for the next five years, Kyrie or Russell? I can't believe we're doing this. I know. I can't believe it either. It's not an instant Kyrie. It's not an instant Kyrie, right? Knee injury stuff with Kyrie bothers me too. That's something that I don't think is ever factored into the Kyrie contract.

It's just understood, oh, you're maxing him. Are you? Okay. Well, you have to. All right. Yeah. No, that's something that I don't think is ever factored in to the Kyrie contract. Like, it's just understood, oh, you're maxing him. Are you? Okay. Well, you have to. All right, yeah, no, I get it. No, they took the staples out of his kneecap.

He's fine. Yeah. What? Yeah, it got hurt again. It's even better than before. What? I'm still not sure I'm ready to go there.

Russell's five years younger. My expectation is he would keep getting better, right? You would think he would just... I really feel like if you're trying to figure out who has hardened potential of all these 23 and under guys, who has a chance to be like a potential impact guy offensively to the point that they're in an MVP conversation.

All these perimeter dudes what he's shown this year like if you figure he gets 20 to 25 better over the next four years this might be a guy who averaged 30 a game I can't believe I'm saying this by the way I'm as shocked as anybody but you know how normally I would just be like what what the fuck are you talking about he's like 22 the fact that he's done this this year and it's not like a losing guy. Okay. No. This league can be really misleading.

There are guys that put up big numbers on shitty teams and are losing players. You know, it happens all the time. It was always my DeMarcus theory in Sacramento. Yeah. But Russell, the fact that they're winning and they're competitive, like you competitive, I've had to correct my whole Russell thing. But again, I don't think I was wrong when he was a pig and they lost all these games. I wasn't wrong when I was like, no, no thanks.

Listen, he's a late bloomer. So in February, nine games, he's 26 a game. Eight assists a game. And the shots are unconscious shots. Ten threes a game and he's making 36%, which is solid for the volume. He's up to four free throws a game for this month. I mean, the free throws to me are the red flag with him. I like when guys go to the line.

When you're just jump shots and that's it, it makes me a little nervous. Last month, he was 24 a game. No one on the Celtics takes any free throws. You ever notice that? It drives me nuts with Tatum. I feel like tatum should have nine free throws a game and he doesn't he's taking 20 footers uh i don't want to make it about the celtics again but see like trey young like trey young is he was great last night he's had some really good games i worry about some of

the shot stuff you know like whenever i hear about westbrook right like westbrook's totally changed his game and you know royce young somebody who i love because he's so good on the thunder and if you're watching all 82 like i can't hang with you you're watching them all 82 but i keep hearing about like oh no westbrook's different he's deferred that's allowed paul george i'm sorry whenever i watch the thunder i don't really it doesn't look like he'll play off when Schroeder's in okay like I'll notice that but he's still taking like he's only taking like one less shot a game than he was last year I agree he looks the same he's deferring though in the last five minutes he's deferring more than he was but that was when he had absolutely nobody else with him other than the bad version of Oladipo

and maybe George to an extent last year so I know that like the beat guy for the Thunder is going to win this. I'm willing to concede it, except when I watch him, it doesn't look all that different. And when I look at Westbrook, I go, why can't you just take those five shots that suck and are horrible? How about you just don't take those five and then everything else will be fine. And like Trey Young, look, he should be fined when he takes threes. When you're this bad at it yeah

if you're going to make one out of every four threes don't take threes Trey Young I'm glad you brought him up because he was but every joke this summer because it was really bad

in the summer league and it got so bad that I actually started to feel bad for him and on top of the fact that he's traded for this guy that's going to be like maybe a franchise

generational superstar yeah but he has been awesome lately but he still has a little like i always worry you know how the roster is built around a young guy's an enabling roster you're enabling him to pull up 30 seconds left we knew their goal for him this year was to try to win the rookie of the year to let him take a ton of shots make all his mistakes and actually lose. And I actually think it's worked in his favor because I loved watching him in college and something happened to him in that last month or so

where you could see it was too much hype, too much pressure, too much media attention. And it definitely seemed like it affected him. Goes to summer league, same thing. Didn't seem confident. And I've actually enjoyed watching the Hawks because I like Collins too. They're big three of Her Herter, Collins and Young.

Herter's the bird. The other two are the McHale Parish. Is he a max guy while we're on this Russell stuff? So Trey Young, the stats back it up. He's 22 and nine. He's taken seven and a half threes a game. He's making 44% of them. And this is like, this is for, for his stats them. And this is like this is for his stats this month. This is like their best case dream scenario of how this Trey Young season would play out. If you're going to say 22 and 9

over 40% on 3 and running the team reasonably well like that's a fucking win for them. This Dallas pick can become a good pick. That's not the worst trade ever. No, he's so good too when they run that high screen. I still think it's a really bad trade though. No, I do too. I'm not judging my opinion on how bad that trade ever. No, he's so good, too, when they run that high screen. I still think it's a really bad trade, though. No, I do, too. I'm not judging my opinion on how bad that trade is.

But it's nice that he's going to work out and Bagley's going to work out. And this is not like a Darko situation or a Thabit. Right, right. There was a concern there. Like, Bagley's fucking awesome. I love Bagley. They still should have taken Luka. But I love Bagley.

I love watching him. That was fun watching Bagley against the Warriors. Oh my God. You saw that? Yeah. Are you kidding? I get... Who doesn't want to watch a Kings-Warriors game? He was a problem. That brings us to... Western Conference. Yeah. What a great transition, which I didn't even

mean to do. It was wonderful. So Western Conference, we have some problems because we need to get the Clippers out of there. Nobody wants to see them in the playoffs. I'll do respect to the Clips. I finished the Sopranos. I want to start a podcast called I'll Do Respect.

Wait a minute. You just rewatched it all recently? I watched 86 in five weeks. I just started Mad Men again. Oh, maybe I'll watch that with you. Virtually. I'll hold off. Yeah.

Maybe I'll start it. I'll try to catch up to you. Jimmy Barrett, the comedian. So perfectly great. They cast that. That might be the greatest cast show ever. It's everybody's best IMDb credit too somehow. Unbelievable.

And I just got through the Jimmy Barrett stuff. Western Conference, Golden State. So you don't want to do Mad Men right now? No, no, no. I want to save it. I want to save it. No, but I just got through the Jimmy Barrett stuff. Western Conference, Golden State. So you don't want to do Mad Men right now? No, no, no. I want to save it. I want to save it. No, but I just, we need to come up with a top five ranking of guys. If you met them, you might be standoffish too,

because you hated their character on TV so much. And you're weird. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm serious. So Jimmy Barrett's in there? Jimmy Barrett, and he's awesome. He was also in Lost too, the guy.

But like the white president and one of the 24s. I'm serious. So Jimmy Barrett's in there? Jimmy Barrett. And he's awesome. He was also in Lost, too, the guy. But the white president in one of the 24s. You remember him? I feel like if I ran into him at a cocktail hour, I would just be like, eh, nice to meet you. And I would sort of like- I always felt that way about Mayor Garcetti and The Wire. And then he became Littlefinger on Thrones. So now I think I'd actually like him.

But I disliked him on The Wire. Garcetti is LA, right? No, Garcetti. Garcetti. Yeah, Garcetti's the real one. I'm like fucking Eddie Edelman now. Saying wrong names left and right. I called Mitch Kovchek,

back to Johnson. I actually kind of like Garcetti though. I didn't think he was a bad guy on The Wire. I'm just telling you how I felt. I didn't like him. Anyway, so back to the standings. Golden State versus San Antonio, 1-8. That's what everybody wants.

Is it? Is it what everyone wants? I want Golden State Sacramento. I want Sacramento to get in. Oh, I thought that's what you just said. No, Golden State San Antonio. I don't want that, yeah. Denver Clippers is 2-7. OKC Utah is 3-6.

That'll be fun. I feel like that's like a weird rivalry now. Did you catch the whole game the other night? Was that Friday? Yeah, I think that's Friday. I said to House on Sunday night

that I actually felt like Paul George was going to win the game for OKC, which was the first time I really felt, it was like, oh, Paul George has this. And he did it. And he did it.

And he did it. You know what's funny about bad shots, though? Mitchell forces it. He's kind of back, whatever the version of it that we were waiting for him to come back. I'm not dogging Donovan Mitchell at all. And I think we know the way they're built. They're a weird team in that it's kind of one guy that's like,

I can save a possession. They don't have anybody else it's very westbrookie how they use him if it's like 10 seconds are left in the shot clock they'll spread out for him and he can at least get a shot and he's good at getting to the rim and kind of making something and then gobert comes in with his long arms and they'll save whatever just happened I don't know how sustainable that is in the playoffs, though. And to think that it beat OKC last year. So sign me up for that. That'd be great. Because I thought, you know,

if anything in that regular season game was a preview, that'd be awesome. I think Portland-Houston, the 4-5, I think that one's really fun, too. I'd enjoy that. So really, here's where we need to get to. We need Denver-San Antonio to be the 2-7. I'd really enjoy that.

Little old school Jokic ball movement against this weird Spurs team. There would be nothing more Spurs than win that series too. And be like, you know what,

we got one at Denver. Fuck everybody. Warriors, Kings. So here's my question. We're going to Max Rudy Gay. The Kings are only one game in the loss column

out of the seven spot if it's Kings Nuggets 2-7 would you just blindly pencil Denver into round two or would you would you really think about it

because I really think the Kings have some upside and I think they're gonna be incredibly tough to beat in Sacramento in a playoff series. You can beat them,

but that crowd's going to bring it. They have so much energy. I love Fox. I love how intense he is. They got the three point shooters, the Barnes thing. There's a calming, you know,

he's just better than Iman Shumpert. Sorry. He's just another guy out there. He's getting some buckets. That guy's been in 75 big games in his career, you know, and in a playoff game, he's just better than Amon Shumpert. Yeah, he's just another guy out there getting some buckets. That guy's been in 75 big games in his career, you know, and in a playoff game, he's going to be comfortable, even if he wasn't three years ago.

The easiest thing to do is just write him off. Hey, it's new. It's still new. They're young and whatever. They have played hard all year long. Yeah. They play faster. I feel like their record could be better.

They've had some... This is not some... You know, it's easy if you haven't watched them where you would go out, whatever this is, this is going to fade out. This is going to fade out. I don't, I don't think it is.

Cause Bagley's gotten better every month. And that's the Bagley and Barnes are two things they didn't have two months ago. They have shoot even Willie Colley Stein, who like a lot of guys around the league were like, Oh, that guy, you know,

by the way, he's a good playoff guy. Yeah. That's somebody who can actually keep on the floor. Playoff game. Yeah. So I wouldn't dismiss Sacramentover sacramento is i'm telling you that's like a toss-up for me mentally i think denver would win because they'd have the game seven but i just don't feel like those teams

are that far off but even you know denver's kind of weird in that you look at the record and depending on the week they can still be looking at the one seed. But other than Jokic, there's guys that are real hit or miss around him. Right. Like you watch them some nights and you're like, man, I wouldn't trade Jamal Murray for anybody. And then there's other nights where you're like, oh, all right. Well, these are the bad. They remind me of like an old school Brad Stevens Celtics playoff team, but with Jokic as a. So like two years ago?

Yeah, like two years ago. But like just a lot of these random dudes where it's like, oh wow, Beasley's out there in crunch time? Okay. But then they'll make it work. But I just think they're trusting a lot of guys who haven't been there before. Which is no different than the Kings, but that's my

point. I feel like you have two young teams with really no playoff experience at all other than Millsap and Barnes. And at that other than Millsap and Barnes. And at that point, all bets are off. I think it'd be really, I think that would be a fun series. Warriors King, the Warriors would beat them, but the Kings would have like, they'd win game three and it would be super fun. Yeah. That Warriors Kings game was awesome because it wasn't like, there's certain Warriors

nights. I think you could put that Saturday night game this past week against the Rockets where you go, okay, so you guys aren't into this and you're hoping you can just win it. And it was the old Doc Rivers. One of the smartest things Doc Rivers has ever said, he goes, I want the best player to be in the lineup on the opposing team. Because as soon as he's not in it,

then I know I'm not getting nearly the same effort from my team. Yeah, my team doesn't try. And that's what's going to happen. And I think that's what happened there. When they played Sacramento close and you're watching it, you're going Golden State's like trying,

like they're in this. And this, that's the big difference. I talked to Bob Myers about it. I saw him at all-star weekend and we were just talking about how there's just no fear anymore with these teams. And he's like, yeah,

I mean, they've been playing us now for five, six years. A bunch of the other teams in the league play our style now. And it's not like it was in 2015 where people were like, what the fuck is this? Oh my God, what? They're going to play Draymond at center? What's going on?

And now it's like, everybody plays like them. Do you miss that at all? The newness of that, the freshness, the horrifying nature of it. Like if you hated Golden State, then of course you don't miss it. I actually missed the pre-Durant Warriors where it was just really curry and clay, where it was just like, this is a team that's never won a, this is the type of team that has never won a championship in the history of the league and they might actually win the championship.

I thought that was a really fun run. I want to admit something here because I think because we both like Durant that I know I probably wasn't as bummed out about Durant going there because I thought

it was pretty clear he didn't want to play with Westbrook anymore and he wanted to be basketball happy and I'm like, good for him. But then if I say that,

then that means like fundamentally if LeBron had decided, hey, I want to take the mid-level and go play there too that I'd have to be okay with it. And that would have sucked. Yeah. In theory, like obviously that's impossible. It wasn't going to happen. LeBron would never do that. I'm looking forward to Durant leaving. Me too. Because I think the league needs the reset. I miss, you know, just like when Phoenix kind of felt like it saved basketball for a weird stretch or maybe the talent depth wasn't there in the league. And this league is so deep now with talent. It's awesome.

But we need a reset. I loved watching those horrifying Warriors moments early on because it was new. And you're like, this is sick. And I became a fan. I became a fan just because it was so much fun to watch. I remember when Denver was the one seed that year. And it's almost like a band that you had heard before any of your friends and I'm on the radio show picking them against Denver and I thought they should have beaten San Antonio after that. Unfortunately, I was on television

predicting they would beat San Antonio and they got their asses kicked. No, they could have won that series. Yeah, they lost in five. Yeah, but the Ginobili, I thought they were really in it. You know what it's like to be on TV when you predict something

and then everybody's like hey that's that Spurs pick especially picking against the Spurs too and then having to

go to San Antonio they're all yelling at me on the count that does suck that does suck but I enjoyed it I'm just saying

it's a that was so much fun and now and this is just how we are it's not Durant's fault it's not the Warriors fault it's just not as much fun that I and now and this is just how we are it's not durant's fault it's not the warriors

fault it's just not as much fun that i need i think this is just us being selfish fans like i just need something new now and if he leaves the boogie thing with some fun wrinkle though that it at least feels a little more new now that they have this these five guys that i'm not used to watching together and i I'm enjoying that. And I still feel like, I think they're going to win the title still. And Vegas agrees with me. Well, I don't know who that second team is

that's consistent enough to challenge them. I still think OKC is the team I'd be most afraid of if I'm Golden State. Me too. I'm surprised you weren't aligned on that. Not many people, I think, agree with us. I am in that camp passionately. But would you agree then with the general point?

Like if Durant does bounce here, it's actually going to make this thing more fun for next year and the years after that because it's a resetting of the fatigue of this. Like I don't like to be a hater. I don't want to be the guy that's like, oh, I have Golden State fatigue. But I can understand if a million people,

millions of people out there have Golden State fatigue, then, you know, it's time to probably try something different. What's the worst possible Eastern Conference first round playoff matchup? Toronto, Charlotte? Milwaukee, Charlotte? Indiana, Detroit? That's in play.

Yeah, that sucks. Indiana, Detroit? Yeah, no thanks. Indiana with no Lodipo against anybody is the worst. Indiana, Charlotte would be a disaster. I just, I mean, I know it bums out Pacers fans, but it's just, yeah, Indiana, Detroit. Last thing.

What's your ideal outcome for Zion with these last four weeks of the Duke season? Well, it's great that Nike stock was able to recover. I know. Despite being down 1% on the open. I was feeling for you when it went down. It was so embarrassing for you on social media when that stock dropped by 1%. I'm going to get David Faber on. People are piling on like that.

Here's my question, though. If you're in that world, okay, and you're doing the whole Nike stock, oh, took a hit, and then you argue because it went down 1% that it's a billion dollars because it's a representation of their market cap. But then that could go up in an hour.

Right. Does that mean that you don't understand stocks or you know that you don't understand stocks and you just don't give a shit and you're like, whatever, it's good content here. Like what I needed to hear from somebody is, yes, because of this shoe thing with Zion, I truly believe that people will stop buying Nike and their stock is a sell

now because nobody's saying that, but the whole, the whole same thing with the Kaepernick thing. So Under Armour is a good example of, do people really not understand stocks? But three years ago, Under Armour just bottomed out and it was because the, the curry shoes, people just didn't like

them they went big on these three athletes that people were fired up about Curry, Jordan Spieth, Cam Newton but then you know Jordan Spieth he went down a little bit Cam Newton got hurt all that stuff and then Kevin Plank said some you know

crazy stuff and the stock went way down. That was not what happened with the Zion Nike thing. No. You're talking about when you're going from like. There was no tangible connection. You're going, your stock's going from like 80 to 40. That's.

That was my point. Right. Yeah. When Nike goes from whatever. 85 to 84.20. That is not a news story. It's not. Or like when Facebook dropped. I don't understand why they have. Yeah. Facebook, there's a is not a news story. It's not. Or like when Facebook dropped.

I don't understand why they have, yeah, Facebook, there's a tangible connection there. Yeah. Although it seems to always recover. It's because they own Instagram. If Facebook didn't own Instagram, if it would be,

their stock would be like in the basement. All right. So that's it. That's your Zion take. You're just worried about nike hoping they come back i think they already play again if you're a zion which i would i play again yeah if you're 100 healthy because i know i would i look eventually this is going to happen like a guy's

going to shut it down in the season and he's going to treat the rest of the regular season like a bad bowl game and everybody's going to get mad about it. But then, no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. A lot of media members will applaud him. Former athletes will get mad at him. I am always about whatever, if Zion wants to go compete for an ACC title, play North Carolina again, see what he can do, maybe win a national championship. Like, why do people act like that's such an invaluable thing? Why do people think it's such a bad deal? I talked about this on sunday this whole new philosophy now i've just like quit on your teammates do what's best for you it's like some people just don't want to do that like he's going to know most athletes don't want to do that most people

are competitive and love playing whatever sport they love playing and especially when they're young and they're not going to see either the wisdom or the benefit in just not playing something to protect their bodies. They're just going to want to be like, Cam Reddish is my friend. RJ Barrett's my friend. I love Jones.

This is my last chance to play with these guys. Fuck you. I'm playing with them. That's the part that people don't understand for some reason. No, and it's somehow, I think people hate the NCAA so much

that they're rooting against anything that's good for the NCAA. They just want the NCAA to blow up. So for them, Zion quitting on his Duke teammates to look forward to the draft, it's like, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what it is. We stuck it to the NCAA.

And it's like, well, actually, this is Zion's one chance to play with all these dudes. I saw, obviously, I got close with Jalen when we worked together at Grant London on Countdown. And like, he's still bonded with those fucking dudes from Michigan. Like those are his guys. They went through all these things together and that was still the best experience of his life athletically.

So to ask somebody to just walk away from that to protect their draft value, I don't know. It just kind of goes against what I thought sports was about. I also wouldn't resent him if he walked away. My point is, it's his choice. If he wants to play with those guys, that's not stupid. Yeah, that's what I'm doing is I end up arguing for Zion to play, not because I'm selfish and want Zion to play, because I want to root against the media members that are telling

him he shouldn't like what happened like some of these topics I start thinking like which side am I arguing I go you know what I'm actually doing is I'm just sort of arguing against the media members that are clamoring for him for just shut it down for sports and being a competitor and having relationships with people that you've just spent the last eight months with where you were like yeah we're gonna win the title by the way, here's the other thing. If he blew out his ACL, he still goes number one. No kidding. In a heartbeat.

That's what I meant to ask you. 100%. And people are going to listen to this right now and think we sound old and outdated and all this stuff. And it's like, no. I don't think anybody's going to do that. Now, if Zion...

No, because... Oh, definitely. We're saying it's his choice. If he wants to play, that's not a bad thing. You support a man's right to choose. Yeah, I do. Now, if his knee was not 100% healthy,

that's fine if he doesn't want to play. I don't think he should play. If he had a kind of a, they tested, like what happened with Oladipo in Indianapolis. He knew his knee wasn't right and he kept playing and he was having issues with it and then the fucking thing blew up

and now he's out for nine months. Like, that's a case of like, maybe you shouldn't play. Yeah, but like the Isaiah Thomas thing, like how many times are we going to hear about that? And it's like, well, dude, he wanted't play. Yeah. But like the Isaiah Thomas thing, like how many times are we going to hear about that? And it's like,

well, dude, he wanted to play. Right. He wanted to play. And they kind of misdiagnosed it. Well, uh,

see, but maybe, maybe it was impossible to diagnose correctly, but they thought it was one thing. But here's the thing is like the support for the player part is great, but every single time, like if I have to read another thing that references that Isaiah Thomas lost a hundred million dollars,

I'm like, is that really what we think happened here? Yeah. I don't think you think he was going to get a hundred million dollars. No. So I don't. Um, all right.

So we'll do this again next week. Yeah. I'll be on the east coast somewhere are you going to be back in time we could wait for you until you come back no alright we'll have to do it we'll do coast to coast

yeah we'll do coast to coast alright cool this was fun thank you alright thanks to ZipRecruiter don't forget to go to ziprecruiter.com slash BS

thanks to Zoom thanks to Microsoft Surface. Thanks to Bud Light. Thanks to anyone who's going to send us a terrible idea for this weekly chat with me and Rasil about the NBA. Send all your ideas to at TomShady300 on Twitter. He likes reading this stuff. You can't hurt his feelings.

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