The Bill Simmons Podcast - LeBron’s MVP Run, LaMelo’s Leap, Steph’s F.U. Tour, and the NBA's COVID Issues With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: January 12, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to talk about the NBA board of governors meeting to discuss COVID-19 protocols (2:00) before evaluating LeBron's case for MVP (20:30), speculating on which teams may come out of the Western Conference (36:30), breaking down NBA rookies (1:16:30), ranking the Top 6 NBA League Pass teams (1:45:00), and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, NBA, NBA, NBA, NBA, and more NBA with Ryan Rosillo. You excited, Rosillo? It's all next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality,

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We're also brought to you by theRinger.com and The Ringer Podcast Network. I was not on the rewatchables this week, but they did the Royal Tannenbaums. If you like Wes Anderson movies, I'm personally not a gigantic fan. That's why I stayed off that one, but you can check that one out. It is a watch crossover episode with Greenwald and Chris Ryan coming up. Rochelle and I are going to bang out as much NBA opinions, thoughts, reactions as we possibly can under two hours. First Pro Jam. All right, we're taping this.

It is 10 o'clock a.m. Pacific time. The Board of Governors is meeting right now. I don't think anything major is going to come out of that, which is why I wasn't nervous about starting to record this podcast now. But we'll adjust if anything crazy happens out of that. My guess, Rosillo, is that they're going to talk about hardening some of the protocols that they've had because I think the biggest issue

the first few weeks of the season is, you saw it with the NFL, where the NFL was just like, hey, you can't do this. And then they started fining people. And I think we're about to cross that line with the NBA. Have you heard anything other than that? No, mean I'm just kind of what I've read you know I feel like it's somewhat similar to remember how we were talking you know going back to the beginning more really the middle of last year when it was the delay and anybody that you talked to that knew what was going on

was like the only thing that we've decided is that we haven't really decided that we're exploring every single possibility to restart the season now this is different but i think you'd agree that it's along the same lines it's like okay let's just throw out a million ideas and see what makes sense because you know this is a completely different challenge but when people say like oh they should shut it down for a week they shut it down for two weeks i don't know that having 500 players away from a structured system actually helps it's kind of like the college football argument. Yeah.

I thought there was a possibility of a week long pause, but they're, they're pretty determined much like the NFL was, I think to, to keep it going, keep it going, keep it going. They want to keep the schedule. They want to get to 72 games for a variety of reasons with the RSNs.

I think what surprised me is how lax, um, some of the protocols have been, I was watching the, the wizard Celtics game on Friday night and I kept watching at the end because I wanted to see Bill and Tatum, you know, Bill was a big brother to Tatum whole St.

Louis thing. And they're really close. And I wanted to see how they'd interact after the game. I wasn't even thinking COVID. It was just more like, it was the first time Tatum's played bill where they were clearly on the same level as like top 20 guys. And they were just kind of hanging out in the court and talking for, I don't know, two minutes, something like that. And, and after I read that Tatum tested positive, my first thought was that Bradley Beal thing. And I thought when we were heading into this season, they were really going to be adamant about, Hey, you guys are playing the games. Other than that, stay away from each other, wear masks on the sidelines. Um, we all have to do this together. And it just seems like it's slipped left and

right. And I think they've had issues, you know, when teams go to Florida, there's no rules there versus you go to New York, all the restaurants are shut down past certain hour, but in Florida, you can go, you can go out. You, if you're a 21 year old guy, you and I have made a bunch of mistakes over the years. Uh, especially when we were in our twenties, D D's D kind of sneak out and go to South beach. What do you do? Well, Arizona is the same way. Like one of my friends was like, Hey man, you're going to make it up to Scottsdale. I was like, what's going on? Like, yeah, it's just on. I was like, actually, I don't want to do that. But I mean, yes, there's part of me that's very much like, man, you know, this is, I've tried not to complain throughout any of this. This has taken a million turns and it, I think it's, it's gone on longer and been worse than

maybe any of us could have thought at the very beginning. And, you know, I don't really want to debate a ton of that stuff other than, you know, this, this is, even though you have that urge, um, I, you know, the right thing would be to not do that. You know, the same as the Alabama celebration after they win a national title and you see all this stuff down there and you're like, I get it. I get wanting to do that, but I mean, give me a break. So, uh, I think the NBA, I'll throw it to you as a question. Do you think the NBA is still probably more concerned, sensitive to the nature of like how controlling they are of the players more so than other leagues 100 yeah and i think there's two they have to get over that well the bubble gave us a false

sense of safety with all this and i think the football season did to some degree too because even though football had covet stuff going on left and right. They only play once a week. And there was only what four or five actual times during the NFL season where COVID really affected a game or a team. Other than that, for the most part, teams could adjust. They could take a couple of days. I think the test leading up to game day was pretty seamless. Here you have teams playing four games in seven days, three games in four nights. You've had multiple cases where like somebody like Seth Curry is tested. He's,

it seems like he's fine. Then it comes out, he's actually playing and they find out he's positive as he's on the court. And it, it seems like they were a little unprepared. I, I'm going to throw a question back to you. This feels like Adam Silver's first major fuck up since he's been

the commissioner. And I think he's gotten a free ride from the last, for the last seven years in this respect, people really like him. He wasn't David Stern. He was very accessible. He's very player friendly and he did an awesome job. And there hasn't really been anything to really kind of hang them on with facts or with, wow, I can't believe you handled this, it this way. I, I'm not sure they handled this well, and I'm not sure they're handling it well. And I'm going to be really interested to see what happens if some of the players start rebelling from a safety standpoint, because this is a league that is so player friendly that maybe sometimes you just

need a dick is the commissioner. Like if you're really going to get this season and I'm not advocating for that, but I'm saying like, good. That was a dick. Good. That was just like, we're playing. I don't care about player safety. Maybe that's the only way this could have worked. And I think the NBA was trying to do it all these different ways, right? They're trying to be player friendly. They're trying to be super cautious. And yet none of it's worked. And I think it's actually gone poorly, but nobody's criticized Adam for it. You're right.

I mean, his approval rating has always been really high. And I always think back to that Clippers, Donald Sterling story where I remember as it was playing out and he basically kicks him out of the league and he's forced to sell his team. It's like, man, that was a tough one i'd be like that wasn't tough that was the easiest decision ever to make because everybody was in support of it nobody liked him nobody liked him the guy's a terrible owner and he's an awful person and so guess what like this no one's going

to take the other side of this one okay this isn't a tv segment and so that actually was like a great first impression okay here's this controversy. How is the commissioner? He is not going to fuck around at all. So he is, I don't want to say coasting off of that because I think he's a really good commissioner. And I'd even push back, like, as you described it as a fuck up. This is the part where I think nobody should be trying to get A's. Like baseball shouldn't try to get an A. They're trying to get a C. Football's trying to get a C.

The NBA got an A from the bubble. An A is impossible under this current situation. So I feel like fuck up is harsh because I'd also ask like, what would you, maybe you're prepared. Maybe I don't know if you are or not. What would you have done differently than if you were trying to get this thing to the over 70 games for the regional networks, have this schedule, get the next season back on schedule?

Like, what would you have done that would have had a better outcome dealing with a pandemic where the numbers keep going up every day despite the fact that we think we're getting control of it. We're not. The fuck up is, you can see it during the games. There's supposed to be protocols with the coaches having,

from the coaches having the masks to the players wearing masks on the sidelines to players being two to three seats separated. None of that's happening. The players are all gathered together. They're cheering like it's March Madness. They're trying to supply the energy. And the players are hanging out before and after the games on the court.

I thought heading into the season, we weren't doing all that. We were going to try to have a situation. I get it. But how much, like, there's also part of me that's like, okay, well, if I'm boxing you out for 35 minutes and sweating on you too, like if I high five you after the game. So maybe you're right. Maybe the science is that, you know, if we're going straight numbers,

limiting the risk by 1% is limiting the risk. So maybe you're right. I think there's also probably part of it where the league was like, okay, well, if they're actually sweating all over each other for 48 minutes and then they decide to high five when they're both not in the game, like what can we really do?

Is it, is it changing the risk? Maybe it does. I don't know. That seems a little harsh. Well, and also other than that, how do you handle like where you can't,

where you don't cancel the Philly game, but then you cancel like the Miami game. Yeah. That seemed like it was all over the map. It doesn't seem like they have enough players on the roster. And it also doesn't seem like they were prepared for situations where a team would play a team and it turned out that team had COVID, but now already that team's playing the next night. They're trying to GM these back-to-back games, stuff like that. And I think it was a mistake.

I actually think maybe they shouldn't have had any back-to-back games. Um, I listen. But then how did I get to 70? You know, how do they get to 70? If somebody says, well, that's because they're protecting the money. Yeah. No mean it's the same thing you were on the expansion thing before anybody brought it up and i was i talked to you about it you thought i was disagreeing with you but i actually was more disappointed that i go you just didn't sell it you know i was i was awesome in that actually i was challenging you i jumped off the top rope and did an awesome wrestling move on you and you just basically got up you were like your frog leap didn't hurt me at all no no i'm standing here staring at you i was like i think they're gonna do expansion it's the only way they can replace the five five billion and nobody seemed

to notice for until windhorse wrote a story about it no i'm saying is that because i knew the information was right we by the way for the listeners we've been having a text argument about this now for about a week or so i was only challenging you to set you up as a better co-host. I was challenging because I knew you had the information. So instead of me being like, man, that's awesome, man, that's awesome. But I think some of these basically have to the point where if anybody throughout all of this points out like, Hey, they're only doing it for the money. And you're like, yeah, I know. I mean, we've already established this. We've already established this part of it. So unless there's some other version where they played 40 games,

that was just never going to happen. Yes. I asked Cuban mid-December, I brought it up to Cuban. And if you notice from the interview, he, he didn't shrug it off. And he, he was basically like, I'd want 3 million. I'd want to get to five and a half billion or 3 billion. I'd want to get to five and a half billion for the two teams. And he said the same two cities that I said, like, they're definitely talking about this. This is the one way they can do you like it revenue.

And maybe that was how I came off in that podcast with you. Yeah, you didn't like the the actual I don't like expansion. I don't like the idea that we're now going to have two more 15 man rosters. You don't want to have two more Pistons teams. Hey, we're going to get to the grant. We got to get to game. We got to get to Jeremy two more Pistons teams? Jeremy Grant? We got to get to Jeremy Grant here at some point because ever since that first game, he's been on fire. I don't

like the idea of expanding the league necessarily because you know what I also think is going to happen is that other leagues are going to be like, hey, if they expand, it's going to be like Vegas all over again. The idea took this long for Vegas to get a franchise in anything. It was so stupid. It was so outdated. And then people were like, Hey, well, hockey did it. Okay.

We're going to do it. So then everybody's going to expand because all of these people just do what everybody else has done. It's going to be a quick cash grab, which I wonder, Hey, is the short-term win worth the long-term, uh, long-term for about 10 owners, it would be. And that's like anything, it's going to come down to a vote. And there's going to be people who see it like Cuban saw it where it's like, all right, well, I'm getting this short-term windfall.

I don't need it. I'm already rich. And then long-term I'm giving up the right. You're giving up the next TV deal. Right. It's one 32nd instead of one 30th. So it's, I'm basically a loan shark. Um, so I don't want to do it, but there's going to be other owners that are going to

be like, wait, how much are we getting if we do this? And that's why I think it's especially especially if somebody gets somebody who wants to sell we're like i don't care about the next tv cut up because i plan on selling in the next five years and we could have that we could have that when we finally figure out where we're all economically removed from these last year plus uh you know you might have owners saying okay fine i'm out now who are going to be voting for that expansion fee? Well, and I think the Minnesota thing has been illuminating. How so? You just assume that the basement for an NBA team was 1.5. They can't get 1.5. From what I heard,

they couldn't even get 1.3. And I'm not saying we're headed toward a 2010 situation where there was eight, nine teams in the market. MJ ends up getting Charlotte putting in, I think, 50 million of his actual cash, whatever the final number was. Philly gets stolen for 280 million. We're not going to see that, but I think these are weird times where if the NBA is valuing these teams as 1.5 billion, 1.7 billion, depending on where the market is all the way up to two, two and a half. Not that many people have money to write checks like that. And not that many minority investors want to be like, cool, here's a hundred million, but I'll have no say. I'll just own a stake in this thing. And I basically get season tickets out of it.

So you end up with like a Fertitta situation. Is that how you say his name? Fertitta, but I love your, yeah, yeah. Fertitta. Fertitta, where he buys the team by himself. He leverages it big time with some of his businesses takes, and now he's scrambling, you know? And those are the kind of owners they're looking at, unless there's like the Jeff Bezos types coming in.

We got sidetracked though. When I'm talking about being critical of the league, to me, this seemed, some of this stuff seemed avoidable. And I think you're right with your instinct to say

they just needed a C+. That's what they weren't looking for an A+. They were looking for a C+. But we've already seen that they're not cracking down on protocol stuff at all. Have we had a guy get fined yet? Have we had,

we have 30 teams. There hasn't been three instances. The NFL people were getting slammed left and right. Coaches were getting rooted. And then somebody lose a pick at some point. They were really like, Hey, do not fuck around with this.

Stop. They hammered the Raiders. The hammer, there is didn't harden, end end up getting fine which was way cheaper than being suspended for the game right i thought he got fine i'll double check it as we're talking it doesn't matter but so anyway i i wonder as i look at this what did they gain out of having it in the cities other than um the ability for those guys to basically sleep at home. Because when the other team was traveling, it was basically they're stuck in a hotel for four to six days anyway. Would they have been better off just doing a bubble, putting three bubbles in three

different spots, trying to play like 10 games in 17 days, something like that. And then taking a week break, everybody kind of flies home, resets, refills their batteries, and then comes back. Was there a better way to do this, I guess, is my question. Unless you were just going to do group bubbling. But look, guys really didn't like the bubble. Okay, it worked. That's why they didn't want to do it.

It was a short version of it. So I don't know how you were going to pitch some 70-game version to all of these guys, but let's face it. It comes back to something very simple. You can think you're doing the right thing, but you're, you're an older player and maybe you have family staying with you and it's Christmas and you're thinking like, look, I don't want to ruin my Christmas. And that in itself can sound like a very simple thing. Like, I don't love people on social media telling people like, Hey, don't celebrate

Thanksgiving this year. You know, like some of this stuff and you're like, okay, I get it. And, but I also understand not wanting anyone to do it. So you add up all of these things with all the different players and then the younger guys, and we're not even on Kyrie yet, but like Harden, who's like, all right, I already had it. I could give a shit. Okay, fine. Kyrie, who apparently doesn't care who I'm sure we're going to get to that a little bit later, depending on what videos are real or what the timing of all of this stuff was. So it was a controlled environment and in a non-controlled one, especially as you point out, the NFL part of this. The NFL part of it, it's a once a week thing.

It's easier to avoid all of this stuff. I think a lot of the NFL stuff, it's almost like going to a nine to five to practice. And it's actually easier to control, even though there's more players. So I don't i don't know if you were ever going to be able to win that with the players association michelle roberts pushed back on the bubble before it even happened she was like i don't like this idea i don't like the concept all of these things and then you know we started hearing about some of these tracking devices and i was like okay well that's probably not going to go over so i don't

really know what they can do unless you like you said unless silver says hey i'm just going to be a complete dick about this now and start finding everybody left and right. Because a lot of people didn't think baseball was going to make it. And it did. And baseball is probably the closest thing to compare to what you have in the NBA. So here's why I think my theory is right, because I think they're going to come out of this border border governor's meetings with much stronger protocols on stuff. And it's going to be an admission that they fucked up the first month that they weren't hard enough and they weren't diligent enough with police in

this. And now they're going to be more diligent would be my guess. If, if, if something else comes out of the board of governors meeting, we'll just retape the opening and do this first 20 minutes again. But I think that's, I think that's how it's going to go.

I think the owners are going to be like, this isn't going well. This is going worse than we thought. We need to get to 72 games. We need more help than what you're giving us. And, uh, here are our new protocols and we're going to start cracking down. So I guess the big lesson from all of this is Adam Silver for the first time is going to have to tap into his David Stern because Stern is actually, it's the difference between a peacetime conciliary and a wartime conciliary, right? In Godfather, where it's like Tom Hagen, peacetime conciliary, wartime conciliary, Tom, you're out. With Stern, Stern was a wartime conciliary. Stern would have loved this.

He would have loved lording over all of this and, and finding people and suspending people and just getting mad and putting in protocols and just being like, like, uh, you know, a dictator. Sober doesn't want to be a dictator. Sober wants everybody to like each other and get along. And I think we're at the point if they need to get through the next four to five months, he's going to have to be a dick a couple of times and we'll see if he hasn't hit him. Uh, let's take a break. We'll, we'll talk some real NBA stuff. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

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an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, I have a bunch of topics for you. Yeah, you do. It's been a while. We haven't done a regular season pod yet.

Here's my first one. This is a little surprise question for you. Could LeBron win another MVP? So I was looking at it today. I sent you the MVP odds. And Luka is plus 440, even though he has not been in shape. That's been one of the kind of secret disappoints.

Disappointments of the season was, I think Luca thought the season was starting in like March. And when they rushed it, he was just out of shape. So he's been doing a 2003 shack, playing himself in shape. The first few games, he's still the favorite on Fando.'s been doing a 2003 shack, playing himself in shape the first few games. He's still the favorite on Fando at plus 440. Giannis is 5-1, but nobody's going to vote for Giannis again. Durant's 7-1. He's already missed four games. Steph's 10-1. His team's not

going to be good enough. Embiid's 12-1. He would have to stay healthy the whole year. Davis is 13-1. He's been on autopilot. Jokic is 13 to one. He's been spectacular, but the team's a 500 team. And then you get to LeBron at 14 to one and Kawhi at 21. And the reason I was thinking LeBron could actually win this. First of all, he's not on cruise control this year. I thought watching the, I thought heading into the season, they were going to do the AD is going to be our MVP. LeBron's going to save himself for the playoffs. LeBron's not saving himself for anything. He's playing hard in these games. If anything, Davis is the one, his free throw attempts are way down. His blocks are down. Um, his offensive reboundings down. He's been on more autopilot than LeBron's been, but the Lakers are the best team. Um,

every other candidate is on a team that I don't think is a top three team except for Kawhi and he's been better than Kawhi. And then there's the narrative potential. He hasn't won since 2013 and it's a shorter season and he's thinking legacy completely at this point, you know, fifth title went away from MJ ties, Kobe fifth MVP puts them on a whole other stratosphere and I could see him going for it. And I wouldn't have said that a month ago. And as you know, with the narratives, it'll, it'll be like, Hey, LeBron's the best player. Why wouldn't he win? And then that starts and it goes, what do you think of that theory?

Great theory. Because I can't, there were moments where I thought, and this happened more a couple years ago with him, with the Lakers, where you could see him coasting in the game but still putting up insane numbers but you could actually really see him going out you know i'm gonna pick it up like the last six minutes of this quarter but i'm gonna just but wasn't that the best in uh in not indictment what's the right word the best proof of how fucking good he was you and i could see that and it's like he lebron's getting a 27 8 eight today. And I don't feel like he's broken a sweat yet. He's so good. He just can do everything and be dominant. And he's not really trying that left-handed pass. He had off the rebound in the Houston game this week where he caught it left-handed because it was a weird

ricochet. And he just was like, I'm going to flick it. Like, it was like, he was throwing shit in a neighbor's yard that he doesn't like. And he throws it and it's like perfect in transition. And I'm, I'm with you. He's playing harder than I thought. And all the Davis and all these stories, like I thought these were really good theories because it's like, let me do this. But as far as the vote, as you remind everyone, as somebody who has a vote and looking at

this, the LeBron lifetime achievement award cannot be dismissed in this at all. Like, do not avoid that as a possible, especially if you have to look at the MVP as you should each year, not retroactively. Hey, how come that guy, you have to remember in the moment, like who are we comparing LeBron to in this spot?

So if Doncic is slow to start and Giannis, I'm with you in that, there'll just be people that are sick of voting for him again. He's not winning again. Yeah. You know, the crazy number is Curry, where it's funny that Vegas has already done this because people have had so much fun watching him carry this team.

And Draymond's doing a lot too. And we'll get to Golden State probably a little bit later on the league pass stuff. So I think LeBron to be, what are we talking here? Eighth right now? That'll probably move. I would imagine that that would move. Right. Well, the other thing we know with the MVP that it's usually going to go to

somebody from one of the top three teams, there's going to be an exception every six, seven years where you'll have Westbrook winning on a 47 and 35 team or whatever, whatever the record was that year. But for the most part, they're going to gravitate toward best guy on a, on one of the good teams.

And this kind of morphs into the Lakers conversation I wanted to have. They're so clearly the best team. I don't, I I'm with you. I don't feel like they're necessarily like balls to the wall by any means. They remind me more like a 2018 warriors kind of, we know we have an on off switch, but when we click it, it goes on. Not like some of these other teams where it's like,

we have an on off switch, but wait, it's not going on. What the fuck? Um, like a little like the chiefs this year. Um, they're just the,

the Schroeder ad instead of having this point grip point guard hybrid hodgepodge. I never know what I'm getting game to game from Bradley and Rondo. It's like, Schroeder's just good. You know what you're getting. Harrell coming off the bench gives them real energy. And I think, I really do think you need guys like Harrell during this weird season where there's no fans.

You know, Harrell brings his own set of energetic whatever. But I like their team more. I thought Marc Gasol fits in. I think it's a better team than last year. I could see them going on a little run and I think LeBron really likes the team. I think he feels completely empowered with this group,

which we haven't really seen. I don't feel like we saw it the entire four years in Cleveland. The last time I saw him playing with a team that I feel like he was 100% bought in on was that 2012-13 Heat team when they had the winning streak. Where it's just like,

I like all the guys in this team. I know where I fit in. I'm having a good time. I feel that with him this year. Yeah, it's a good point, but I also think that that's a product of already having success and then tweaking it a little bit.

Like, I remember thinking when the Heat got together, it wasn't so much what it was going to be like in that first year. It was going to be what they were like in year two and three, once they learned how to play each other and then they fit in the pieces perfectly. It's not the same thing because in that case, you had three max guys and then you're figuring out the rest of the roster. And you just usually in building a roster that way, you need a little bit more time to secure the edges of it

because you can't just go, Hey, we just blew all of our cap space. And now we need some of these other mechanisms to add talent to it. So with this case, you have your two core guys. And when I watch what Vogel does with them, there's things that I didn't necessarily think they would do lineup wise, like their top three and top six, I think in offense and defense already, they're clearly the best basketball team and they're still experimenting, which I think should put the rest of the league, like they are already the favorites, but that's horrifying that I'll look at lineups and go, well, they can't ever play like Trez, Anthony Davis, and LeBron together, and I'll notice it.

I don't know what the total minutes are in that. Kuzma-LeBron was usually something where you're like, oh, that's all you need to know about LeBron and Kuzma, that he doesn't fuck with him because Kuzma comes in and the LeBron minutes. There's tons of Kuzma-LeBron was usually something where you were like, oh, that's all you need to know about LeBron and Kuzma, that he doesn't fuck with him because Kuzma comes in and the LeBron minutes. There's tons of Kuzma-LeBron minutes now, it feels like, at least for me. And they have these different pieces, whether it's Wes Matthews, who doesn't have to score, he's not terrific, but you at least trust him

to not screw up. You trust him to be a fighter. You trust those parts about him, like how competitive is he. Gasol looked washed, I thought, at the end of that Toronto playoff series because he was a terrible matchup. I thought that too. Boston was a terrible matchup for him.

Ibaka was clearly superior in that series. But in this case, it's like, oh, you guys are going to move around and all of you are really smart. And I can just get cutters and keep people honest and move around and be a big body in the bigger West. This team is really cool because they can do a lot of different things. Yeah. I think they're way more malleable than they were last year.

Absolutely. I love, and I'm with you. I thought Gasol looked pretty washed up last year and who knows, he might be semi washed up anyway, but his, just his IQ alone. And the fact that when he's out there with Davis and LeBron,

you can see it works. The geometry of the floor works because he can actually shoot threes. In the playoffs, teams are going to basically want him to shoot those threes, but he's a good passer. Matthews replaced Danny Green, I thought, really nicely. And there is some institutional knowledge with KCP that, and maybe coming out of the bubble

and how good he was in the finals for what we thought he was as a player. But I think he feels like he belongs with this team. He got a new contract. So it's like they got a better version. Basically, they got a better version of KCP. Schroeder is better than the point guard hodgepodge they had last year.

Gasol, I think, is more fun than any minutes Dwight Howard gave them. And then the Harrell piece, where Harrell's 24 minutes a game. He's 13 and eight with real energy. And there's nights when, you know, the team doesn't have it and he can come in and for four minutes, he's just trying really hard. And that's, it's nice to have guys like that versus Dwight, the spaz. So yeah.

And Dwight, by the way, every, every bonus that Dwight gave you offensively was a product of other guys. Like, LeBron made his life. I can't even imagine how many assisted buckets were from LeBron for Dwight on that. And Gasol's like, hey, we can do some different stuff with you. I mean, look, Kuzma's numbers across the board, the raw numbers aren't great.

The metrics, the analytics on Kuzma are bad, but they're trying different things. And then if they decide, okay, you know what, maybe we have to put Kuzma in a different rotation here. That's what I really enjoy about watching them is that then you got Horton Tucker, who's basically a max guy here in Los Angeles. Everybody's so freaked out about him, but he just, he finds a way, he finds a way to be productive. And it's, it's gotta be that wingspan because every time you watch him, you're like,

this is going to work again. And it does. So they have a lot of options on the Trez thing though, that I think is really funny. And this is, this is, I don't know if it's more noticeable or if I've just noticed it this year,

new guys on new teams. It's almost as if the team's like, Hey, let this guy get a few more touches in the beginning. There are so many guys on new teams that I go, what the fuck? Why are you, why are you letting like Montrez run this possession like what's happening here everyone

ben wallace went to the bulls and it was like all right you know what we're gonna get ben wallace more looks like no this is why ben wallace this is why he took two shots that came in detroit like what do you guys like you were so desperate to get him to come to your team that you told him that yeah you know you're to be touching the ball a lot more in our offense. You're like, are we? So it's happening with a lot of teams. The new blood thing is so important when you have a really good returning champion. Basically, it's and I always would compare it to a TV show.

And I remember even writing about this back when my fingers used to work, but if you're just bringing back everybody the same way the next year without some real tweaks, but you're not tweaking your essential guys, there's a different energy that comes with that because the guys you're getting for that first year, they're all in. They're bought in. They're trying to impress everybody else. They're so happy to be part of a winning team, and especially in LeBron's case, to play with a a special player that you're getting the best version of those dudes

versus like, had they paid Rondo and Danny green playing for a contract, he already knows what, you know, it's the, the energy is different. And I think you see that with TV shows too. You know, my, my, one of my favorite shows ever was Miami vice in Miami vice kept the same cast for all like five years before it got canceled. And you look back at it and you're like, man, season three, they should have just brought, you know, some hot new detective as a love interest for Crockett and, and mix it up. And now you see with the TV shows. Now they always try to bring in the new person for the new season. You know, that's something Law & Order has done really well, shows like that. I'm off on a tangent, but I think it's important when you have LeBron. No, but it's true. Like, different strokes. LeBron's in year 18.

It's like, yeah, you got to mix it up year by year. Give him, like, new toys to play with in his bedroom. Anyone who's ever done this job, meaning building rosters, and it's not just basketball, it's baseball, it's football, they'll tell you when you win, you better be different the next year and then you think like okay well that seems ridiculous like why wouldn't you just bring everybody back and just prove you won championships it's like no you actually need you need to do two things you need to change the energy with like somebody being as you point out so excited to be a part of this um you know you can also backfire too it's not like you're gonna start calling be like hey what do you think we give for anthony davis you know let's really shake

it up here but then there's another part where you want to tell the guys in the locker room how committed you are to them and baseball will do this a lot where it's like a good contending team there'll be gms that are they're compelled to make a trade just so the clubhouse knows that they're as invested as they are so there is a very non-number dynamic. There's this part of team building where even a successful team like the Lakers, like shake it up, make it new, try to make it better, which is always the goal. But making it new, even though you just want a title, is actually something I think a lot of guys would try to do.

It's the greatest what if of my sports life is if Len Bias doesn't die and he's just added to that 86 Celtics team as the best version that we're talking about of the new toy and all the different things he brings to McHale and Bird and their primes and they're playing less minutes. Bird's got this guy to like mentor and throw alley-oops to. And it's like, what happens to that team the next year? You even saw with the 87 Lakers that year when they had a Michael Thompson. And it was like, oh, now we don't, we don't have to rely on Kareem to guard every center.

Now we can go twin towers and crunch time. Now we can actually bench Kareem for six, seven minutes. And I think their moves are really good. Polinka took a lot of shit last year, including on this podcast. I think he's done a really good job and we didn't even mention the Vogel who was sitting, sitting there for anybody.

Vogel had a really nice Indiana run. His Orlando run sucked for reasons that as it turns out now, it's pretty clear. He had nothing to do with, cause he's a good coach, but he admitted, I thought maybe you have to kind of fall on the sword anyway to get that next job.

But he admitted some very specific things of how the Orlando thing and the approach to offense where he went, OK, I need to change some things. Right. And I think that's why he ended up he kind of unofficially joined the Boston staff for a year. And because you want to learn from Stevens and he realized he was too primitive offensively with where the league was going. But I'm with you. I think that team is really well coached and the stuff they tried during games, I think is really high level. I think, I think the coaching has been really good this year. I think the Indiana coach is good too. Uh, every, every year there's like, Nate, I call him Nate. Okay. I like the, I like the stuff he does with that team. So that leads us to the next question of who's playing the Lakers in the Western Finals.

We're going to answer that right after the break. This episode is brought to you by Coca-Cola Creations. You love the taste of Coca-Cola and love the cookie crunch of Oreos. But what happens when the best drink and theCola and love the cookie crunch of Oreos. But what happens when the best drink and the best cookie in the world get together? The best becomes Besties. Try the new Coca-Cola Zero Sugar Oreo Limited Edition.

Besties for a limited time. Taste it while it lasts. Copyright 2024. The Coca-Cola Company. Copyright 2024. Mondelez International Group. What's the feeling of fall? It's finally catching the sunrise.

And not because you woke up early. No, you woke up nice and late. And you know what? The sun waited. Then you went and got what you love from Starbucks. The new pecan crunch oat latte and new baked apple croissant. and enjoyed that warm apple filling and those nutty flavors with rich brown buttery notes while the sun rose just for you. That's the feeling of fall and it's only at Starbucks. Okay. I'm going to give you the following teams and then we'll go

through them, but I'm just going to list all of them. Somebody is going to play the Lakers in the Western finals, assuming we have a basketball season. Our nominees are the Clippers, the Suns, the Trailblazers, the Nuggets, the Mavericks, and the Warriors. If you had to bet on one of those teams being in the Western finals, who would you bet on? My instinct is to still stay Clippers here, which I know there's plenty of evidence. This team hates adversity. You know, I thought this was supposed to be different. That Warriors loss really bummed me out for the Clippers.

I enjoyed watching the game, but Paul George is cruising. Things start going a little hard. He has some tough possessions in there. I think Kawhi will play defense, and then he kind of like will stop playing defense. And then Pat Beverly, I think, was so pissed off about Steph going off that then he starts complaining about stuff that's not even worth

complaining about and now he's totally just like i i'm worried if i am a clippers fan the same bullshit that led to this demise for a team that is really talented and should be on its best the best version of a clippers should easily be the team playing the lakers in the western conference finals but there have been a couple things and this season is tough because I think some misleading stuff is happening here too. But when there's already evidence that mentally you're maybe not tough enough from the previous post season, and I'm seeing signs of it again with a different coach and a couple of

different pieces, it scares the shit out of me. So I put my money on the Clippers and I'd feel like an idiot at the window on the Clippers. That was not my choice, even though I think they're the safest choice. Um, cause I have another one that I was probably,

I mean, I'll just say sons. Sons was the one I was like, you know, maybe I'm just going to go. That was my pick. That was once again, I was,

no, I, I, I wanted America to hear that. I was standing on the top rope again. I was ready to do like a Jimmy, Jimmy super fly snooker. And you know, you just moved out of the way. Just do it again. I know. I landed. on the top rope again. I was ready to do like a Jimmy Superfly snooker splash.

No, you just moved out of the way. No, just do it again. No, keep it. No, no. Start over and I'll pretend. I'll get on the top rope again. No, keep it. I want people to hit it. Sons, Bill? Whoa. On the quippers quickly. I have an important question for you.

There's two minutes left. It's game six. They're down 3-2. What five guys are on the floor for them? All right. This is a really good point because the first two games of Batum this season, you and I were like, are you watching this?

I will never believe. You're never getting me to buy in on a guy who quit his last Portland season and two straight Charlotte seasons. He's quit three of the last six seasons. I're never getting me to buy in on a guy who quit his last Portland season and two straight Charlotte seasons. He's quit three of the last six seasons. I'm never buying in. When he got the Charlotte deal, I've never had more GMs be like, and it's not just GMs, front office people too,

so let me make that clarification where they're like, that's the last guy I want to pay. And they were all right about it. Also, it's not like he's exactly lighting up. He's averaging 11 points and four rebounds a game he makes two threes but he they've been relying on him in crunch time he can switch and the announcers are selling the shit out of him in every cooper game people are selling this people were saying how great it was before it even started so then i know that i am

guilty of once that happened and i watched those first two games we were making the joke because i thought it look it was real those first he was passing in the way you would pass to be like i don't want anyone to see how bad i am so i've got the ball and like this pass does nothing for us offensively let me get out but he's hitting some old guys old guy pickup basketball but the fact that he's even at 10 points a game and then in the closing five for a team that's better and he's like at a million bucks that's like paying the team and what i forgot what i forgot was the frenchman theory because Boris Dia, when he went to San Antonio, I go, you've got to be kidding me. There's no way this, but what I didn't realize is that I don't know if

it's a French thing that seems a little biased, but when he was in Charlotte, he's like, I'm going to get huge and suck at basketball. And then when I respect the Spurs, I, so I don't know if that's what's happening here with Batum. because he's still only 32 years old because he was somebody you couldn't even play on a Charlotte team, and now he's closing with the Clippers, but I'm telling you, I don't think he closes. I think it's Beverly.

I think it's Ibaka. I think it's George. I think it's Kawhi, and then once Morris is all the way back, it's going to be Morris, I would imagine. I can't imagine because I still think when you drive at Batum, it's kind of bad watching him try to recover.

But the numbers since those first couple games, he's been better. He's been better for him. So that first impression was awful. He's been better. You and I agree. It's Beverly, Georgia Kawhi, Morris, and Ibaka. And I don't think that team's good enough to win two playoff rounds. I don't.

I don't. What's Kawhi? So, it's interesting. If you just look at their stats, and we haven't seen any games, and you and I had been in, I don't know, we'd been on a safari in Africa,

and we didn't see one basketball game. Which I'd like to do with you sometime. Yeah, that'd be fun. Let's plan that. They have the third best offense. The whole team is shooting 42.4% from three. PG and Kawhi are averaging

almost 50 points a game together. And if you add up their percentages, they're borderline 50-45-90 percentages. They're not there, but edging toward it. So statistically, they've looked great. And yet they're 7-4 and they've already mailed in how many games?

Two really egregious mail-ins. And I don't like the crunch time five. As you know where I stand on Marcus Morris. And then Beverly, I just think teams are going to leave him wide open. I know he shoots the three well in regular season, but when it gets down to the playoffs, teams are just going to let Marcus Morris and Beverly shoot. And I don't like the makeup of the team.

I just don't. And I, and I don't trust the Paul George signing either where it's like, Hey Paul, you're a guy. Here's an extension. I don't, we saw them shank Blake Griffin.

What? Six months after he signed that extension. I think they would shank Paul George in five seconds. I don't trust George. Well documented. I know we're going to get to some player rankings a little bit later, but like there's a point where you have to put him somewhere because he is so talented. He is so productive.

I think the Kawhi thing scares me because you know how last year in that Dallas series he just kind of did what he wanted offensively. Like he really oh, hey, I'm going to dribble. I'm going to dribble into you and I'm going to be free and pull up for 15, 17 feet. I'm going to hit it every time. And then once you start to overplay that, then I'm going to drive on you. And then once you do that, then I'm going to pass. And you go, you're like, damn it. This

guy's the best player in the league. And then you go, wait, let me dig into some of these defensive metrics. Like, Oh, this guy just stopped playing defense. Like he's built as the best two-way player in the league. And maybe it was part of the offensive load. But even in that Warriors game, and again, we're still early on this. I think there's some real, as you said, there's some real mail-in performances across the board, which I want to get to in the theories on that,

because some of these games are horrible early on. We had a game, there was a stretch yesterday where every game was like 20 points or more was the deficit, where it was just across the board. It was the deficit. Where it was just across the board. It was either yesterday or two days ago, across the board. No, it was last night again, too.

No game was close. The Cleveland-Memphis game was close. A pace for Sacramento, I watched because it was like, oh, finally have a close one. The late games ended up being close, yeah. I mean, I've watched so much damn Sacramento here because they're always in this window on their own late. Yeah.

And I'm just, you know, keep watching Bagley going, wait, is he just bad? Sacramento is like, it's like how chris meyers seems to announce most of fox's biggest nfl games you're like why did chris meyers get this one it's just like the window he's like they're west coast guy there's so many teams i feel like i'm watching more bad teams because we've had this weird bottom coming up deal and then some of these absurd players putting up these numbers where I'm like, wait, what the hell's going on here?

And I'll watch. I've watched every night. Every night, I'll have days where I go, hey, tonight, nothing. Don't watch anything tonight. Like, take a break. You're going to burn yourself out. And then I'll just go, wait,

LaMelo's got 4, 12, and 15 again? Like, what's going on? Like, I should probably watch some more LaMelo. Well, you 12, and 15 again? What's going on? I should probably watch some more LaMelo. Well, you and I both hate-watched the Pistons because we just can't believe that roster as it was set up. On the Clippers thing, just quickly on Kawhi because I want to move on. I don't think he looks athletically where he was

two years ago. I think he's at what I see is somebody who's at the tail end of whatever their athletic peak is. And I noticed the same thing as you. I think he can shut guys down, but he's not the glove like he was.

He's not the 2017 guy who was just like, I'm just going to destroy everybody for an entire quarter. I just don't think he's wired that way anymore. When it's right, I'm like, okay how many guys are are better than him but i don't there's some stuff about him that's that scares me a little in in the sense of is he one of the four or five best players in the league which i still think he is i i do i'm not gonna i'm not gonna be like hey i got kawhi ninth all of a sudden. It's not that, but the standard for the Clippers is a high one, and that's the reason we're asking this question.

Could this team... So you actually don't even think that they can win two rounds. So why don't you just go with your West breakdown? I feel more comfortable with the Suns if I had to pick between those two teams because... And look, I love admitting when I'm wrong

because I'm wrong a lot. I was definitely wrong on the Chris Paul trade. I thought it was a panic trade. I didn't think they needed to give up a first round pick and I didn't think, okay, so he had anywhere else to trade him. But what he's done in transforming that team, it's not just about,

oh, now they have a real point guard running the show. Like he's completely changed how they play. They play fucking slow. Did you see they're the last in pace out of anyone in the league? They're 30th because he wants them to be a half court team and they're a really good half court team. They get good shots. I like the shots they get. He gets himself good shots. Booker can create himself really good shots. Every once in a while they can run a little screen roll With Aiton and they always have shooters Bridges has been

The stats don't really show how good it seems like Bridges is In these games Have you noticed that? I watch his games Bridges is averaging 25 a game And he's averaging like 12 What did he have 34 the other night for a career high? He had one big game yeah

But I think he's been really good. And I just like the team. He had six the game before that. They feel like a playoff team to me. And one of the things I think has to be mentioned is they have, there's a trade to be made

with the roster they have to add one more piece. I think they could take the Sarge contract to other things and maybe get somebody in that 15 to $20 million range who could be a real asset.

So I like the upside of them too. I like watching them a lot. The Chris Paul love, well-documented here. Mikkel Bridges is the second leading scorer on this team. I mean, Paul, yeah. I mean, Paul's taking 11 shots a game here, which always kind of drives me crazy. And he's not even hitting threes yet.

He's going, they're playing super slow and he's just setting people up. He's having a great time and they're winning. The best part about this team, besides Paul, I mean, Paul's the headliner, but Bridges is a completely different guy now. Cam Johnson, who we all laughed about that draft night transaction deal.

Like he can shoot, none of us like all the prospects. He can shoot and he's a real like all the prospects he could shoot and he's a real guy in the rotation um plus plus the crowd they didn't have him last year and crowder who sometimes can be hit or miss i mean he's come in and look paul's not even shooting it that well right now by his standards like he's pretty low the only thing that's kind of maybe in phoenix people that have watched every single possession i still feel like there there's an Aiton part here because his numbers are, are bad for what we thought they would be with him. He's rebounding,

but he's only 12 points a game. He needs to do a better job of catching like Paul and him need to figure out like, Hey, if you're going to post and I'm going to give you these post touches, because Paul's going to, I need to trust that you're going to catch this and that you're going to get the right seal and you're going to do.

It's just something I've noticed. So I'm not proclaiming that to look at every single touch that Aiton's had all season, but I'd like to see that a little cleaner because if it is, and Paul trusts you a little bit more and adds another element, granted an outdated element, but they have kind of their five or seven guys already, which is pretty incredible. It's pretty hard to do that when you're a non-playoff team to the end of next year. It's like, Hey, seven or eight, we're good. We know exactly who we are already. And one other piece. So there's seven and four. You mentioned how Paul

hasn't shot that well. He's 29% from threes, 43% field goal, which is a slate. I'm not going to get alarmed yet because it's too early in the season, but I don't like when older point guards, when their field goal percentages go down like that, that's usually not a great sign. He He's he's free throw attempts are three points a game, but that there's, if you go and look at Stockton and Isaiah, people like that, when their field goal percentages go down late in their career, it's, it becomes worrisome, but they're not getting a great Booker season yet either. It hasn't been bad, but he hasn't had like the hot streak. So one of the things I like about them is they're seven and four, but their best two guys, I don't feel like I've even completely clicked yet what they do have. They know who their best players are. The rotation makes sense. They have shooting, they have three and D guys

and, uh, and they play a style that I think works. And the bummer for me, no, I already know what you're going to say. And it's totally on point. I'll get out of the way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,'re too high climb on the top rope with me and do this frog wave together what was the bummer for me i i take i'm not jumping you here i already know what you do it because it's that they took jalen smith and not halliburton because he'd be fucking perfect he'd be fucking perfect because he can play with everybody like halliburton's been so impressive with sacramento that like i made a joke about oh now that you know it's fox the guy he can play with everybody. Halliburton's been so impressive with Sacramento that I made a joke about, oh, now it's Fox the guy.

He can play with everybody, so you don't have to get rid of anyone around him. That's the great thing about him in college. His freshman year, he played with these higher volume scores, and then when he took over, he's like, no, I can do all the stuff, guys. Don't worry about it. So he'd be perfect for them.

I actually think if they had taken them, I would say comfortably, they would be undefeated. The Western finals. No, I would say they're, they're going to be the second best team. I would,

I would feel really good about saying that. Cause you, you nailed it. This is why the advanced metrics people liked him so much. He didn't need to have the ball to have a real effect on games on both ends. The team's defense is always better when he's out there. The offensive efficiency, whether he has the ball or not,

he just knows how to play with other guys. He's like that dude in pickup that you just want to be like, I want to be on that guy's team. It'd be fun to play with that dude. How he's meshed with Fox without Fox getting threatened at all. And he just kind of fills in. And when they need them, I'm with you. I've watched way too many Kings games.

Mostly because I really like Halliburton. To watch a rookie just be able to fit in. You know, I always compare rookies. They're like having a puppy. Like we got a puppy a month ago. And watching the puppy. What'd you name it? Murph.

Dale Murphy? No, just Murph. Watching Murph try to fit in with our three puppies There's this month that's super awkward They're getting mad at him They're growling at him And then eventually they kind of all kind of figure out how to coexist That's what it's like for rookies on a team

They're not supposed to be able to go in and be like Cool, I'm going to fill in all the blanks I'm just here, I'm just here to help And actually do it Which is exactly what the Suns needed I'm just here. I'm just here to help and actually do it, which is exactly what the Suns needed. So frustrating. And then the Kings, who just step in shit and end up with

one of the three best rookies. Like, come on. Do you want to do how many people already regret their pick at the top of the draft? I have rookies later. Can we do that when we do the rookies? Your podcast. I love the Suns. I think they're the team to watch.

So Portland, now we're in this weird Portland Nuggets, Mavericks, Warriors group. And we can go through it quickly. Dame and CJ are balling. They're 54 points a game and almost nine threes a game, which is basically

vintage Clay Curry production. Nurkic has, there's stuff going on with him. I think he's got stuff going on back home, but he's just not been the same guy that he was in the bubble and their free agents as predicted on this podcast have not really been that helpful. Covington I think is, is figured out how to fit in. And ultimately it looks like they're trying to play Covington, Trent, Carmelo, Dame, and CJ going super small at the end of games,

trying to get more shooting. That was how they won last night's game. Carmelo somehow isn't done yet. There's no fork in his back. But they're built around those two guys. CJ's making an all-star run. It's only 11 games. But I think the Harden rumors lit a fire under him.

In general, I like the upside of this team because I do think they still probably have a trade to make if they need it. And they have two guys who every game can get to 50 to 55 points. And offensively, they're really good. Defensively, they've been horrible.

It's been documented all over the place. But upside-wise, I like them. What what do you think those guys have been nuts i mean mccollum's actually a leading scorer at which which seems impossible when you have somebody as good as lillard and he's lighting it up i mean there's 11 threes a game that cj's taken he's at 45 percent um and they both board for smaller guards they they get you close to five boards and they play fucking hard which i think matters game five boards and they play fucking hard, which I think matters game to game. They, they play hard. No, I think those guys really, really care. I think, unfortunately, I thought the Covington thing would be better.

It's it's been bad. Derek Jones, I had limited expectations for, but they're playing them a lot. They're playing them like 30 minutes a game. The Anthony Simon's next step has not happened. It feels a lot like they're the same profile team. I'm not picking them to be in the Western Conference Finals. The defense just still is... I don't know that it's that much different, even though I had hopes for them

to be steadier defensively because they finally had small forwards. Physically, they felt like they could put up against people. I don't know how you make all those moves and then get patted on the back for all your free agent moves by all your media cronies. You don't know how you make all those moves and then get patted on the back for all your free agent moves by all your media cronies. But you don't like Covington. You actually don't like Covington.

No, I like the Covington thing. Covington was the only one I liked, but I like, how do you not end up with a backup point guard? You signed like six guys, you know, the back you.

So who's your back? So it's going to be Simons. We, how Simons is the new roddy bubois how many how many years in a row can we wait for him to quote unquote make the leap honestly he hasn't what he's never had a run like bubois seriously um it just feels like they they did a bunch of moves without actually addressing one of the two things i would have wanted, which is,

do you have a third guard who can handle the ball? That's not Dame or CJ where, so you can play these guys together a little bit more and things like that. And the to-do list was the, was the wings add wings. And the wing was the other one. So, and so they thought they did it and it hasn't, it's been a disaster so far. So I would think that that's higher on the priority thing, but I think I like Neil O'Shea more than you do. Derek Jones. They were like, Hey, he played like three minutes in the last two playoff rounds. Let's get him. That's going to be our guy. I still get it. It's not like he, you know, he's been around for a few years. He was like a dunk contest guy. I just find it hard to believe that was their big move. The nuggets. We can skip over this, that Jokic is

averaging a legit triple double 24 11 and 10 which is a stats from a center i've never seen their defense is as bad as we expected it to be and by the way there's one nugget thing you have to add a nugget nugget they weren't good defensively last year no so when people look as bad this year yeah well they're worse but whenever anybody goes out you know there's no jeremy or there's no, there's all these different things. They weren't a very good defense last year. So there you go. My, my thing with this team is Jamal Murray.

Um, can you decide if you're going to be a star or not? Just let us know when we're the other, just, Hey, you can send an email, send a text, maybe just a tweet.

Just be like, I've decided I'm actually going to try to become a star. Cause you're just going to be 19, two and two every night. And every once in a tweet, just be like, I've decided I'm actually going to try to become a star. Cause you're just going to be 19, two and two every night. And every once in a while you score six points. And then once every three weeks you have your 39 point game. And they say, Jamal Murray,

it's one of the best young stars in the league. It's like, if you really want to be one of the best young stars in the league, play well, play well, game after game. The way to become a star is consistency. It's not one night I had 37,

the next night I had four. And I thought he would make a leap. I'm disappointed. To me, he's one of the most disappointing guys in the league so far. But see, this is why, you know, real ones versus casuals on this. Like the casuals exposed themselves last year

or at least during the playoffs because like oh jamal murray's always been and i'm watching that series against the jazz being like who the fuck is this guy because he's never been that guy but maybe we were hoping it was maybe a breakthrough but clearly he just got hot for two weeks he's still shooting better this season at 39 from from three than he ever has before. But really, the overall numbers here are pretty much in line with the projection of his career, that he's a good player. I know that some of the other stuff, but even the PER, it was like 17s last year. It's just over 16 this year.

So those aren't breakout numbers. Unfortunately, if you're a Nuggets fan, that looked like a bit of a tease. But the fact that he could do it in the playoffs and go on these runs and put up these big numbers, that Jazz series is one of the best playoff series that no one's ever, ever going to remember about because it was that much fun. And you're right. Jamal actually is playing more like the guy he's been most of his career than maybe this completely misleading stretch of a few weeks in the playoffs. He averaged 27 a game in 19 playoff games. That's nuts.

And now he's back to being 19 a game. And I watched Nuggets game. And I know you do this too. These guys, when you're watching the game, I forgot they were out there, guys. And sometimes you forget he's out there. And you shouldn't because he's the second best player on that team. He's got a huge contract.

And just four weeks ago, it seemed insane and unbelievable that they would ever flip him for James Harden. They can't because he just signed an extension. But in general, he just seemed like an untouchable. It's like, fuck that. We're not trading Jamal Murray for James Harden. We'd rather have Jamal Murray. And now it's like, ah, all right.

Are you sure? Because I don't know what happened to him. Well, we'll see if he gets it going Mavericks. We can just skip over quick. Porzingis isn't back. Luke is not in shape. And I, there's nothing to learn from that team yet. And then the last team, Oklahoma city winners of three in a row, your eight seat in the West has is Poku up to 190 pounds yet? He's at 190 shot attempts already. Poku. I want to talk Warriors,

but let's take a break. Prime Big Deal Days is coming October 8th and 9th with exclusive savings just for Prime members. Involuntary deal squeals can happen, like the deal on new running shoes squeal, the deal on a new blender squeal, or the infamous deal on a new massager squeal.

Save big on electronics, fashion, and more this Prime Big Deal Days, October 8th and 9th. All right, the Warriors. The only person I know who enjoyed the Steph Curry fuck you tour more than I did was you. I think we're his number one and number two fans. We've been the co-captains of the Steph Curry's underrated club. It literally infuriates me when people try to discount things he's done in his career when they do. Oh, he never won without

Durant. Like, really? How about when he went 73-9 without Durant? That one doesn't count. What about the 2015 title without Durant? Remember that? But I really loved it. I kind of felt on that Friday night, whatever

it was, the first fuck you game you had, I forget what day it was that the fuck you game was coming. Cause there was a lot of internet chatter that day. What the Portland game. Yeah. So that's whatever the one where he had 62. Yeah. Yeah.

I forget what night that was. I thought the bulls game was when things started to look a little different, but then, you know, 62 was 62. So go ahead. I,

as you know, I'm a continuity guy. I don't like the... I've known. I say that about you to my friends. I don't like the NBA 2K. Everybody just switches teams every year, every two years. I really value the Draymond-Steph basketball relationship. I love the fact that those two guys have been on the same team for eight years.

That they know the little nuances about each other. They know how to play together, that they're just all in on one another. And one of the things I loved was that, that three that he got to get to 62 points, Draymond gets the rebound. Curry knows instantly what's going to happen the moment he gets the rebound. He runs behind Draymond. He trails him. Draymond knows Curry's behind him. He's very aware of what's going to happen next. Curry knows what's going to happen next. Curry runs to a spot to the left. Draymond dribbles to a spot.

That's the hard stop turnaround to block the guy off. And Curry takes the three. And when we talk about guys changing teams every year, That's the stuff you lose. When guys are together eight, 10 years, that fundamental instinct of, I played with this guy so many times, I know exactly what he's going to do. It's the same way when you have dogs. It's like, oh, it's 1030. My dog Jesse is going to go lie on the living room couch. You just know everything they're going to do. And I feel like basketball is like that too. The more you play with somebody, the more, you know, exactly what they're going to do. This is why Joe house, my favorite player to play with ever then replaced

by Dave Jacoby. We played three years together and we just knew exactly what the other guy was going to do. It was just really fun to play with somebody like that. And I just love watching Draymond and Curry and Draymond's at a weird stage. Like he doesn't make threes anymore. He doesn't seem to be if he cares if he scores anymore. But defensively, he's gone back to where he was three years ago. And I think he's really embraced being part of all this. And they're my favorite team to watch on League Pass right now. They're one of my five, without question.

And watching how bad it was in the beginning. And you're going, all right. Because, you know, we were doing our over-unders. go i want to pick i don't want to doubt steph at all i don't want to doubt him i want to take the over i want to say you know all the stuff that i say about steph well if he really is that good they should at least get the eighth seed but then i'm thinking like it's still a team that's constructed around almost 60 million dollars with the guys sitting on the bench and you know jaymon was coming back we knew clay wasn't so even if steph's the man you go are you seriously going to do this with a rookie

and wiseman who played three college games with pascal who had nice rookie numbers because nobody else was playing you know damian lee's hit every shot brad wanamaker i mean it was tough and then you added the wiggins uber part where those guys couldn't hit a shot to save their lives you can actually see that with draymond coming back, the energy and the fact that they kind of have, it's not more, it's not just having more fun being out there, Bill. It's that they seem to just enjoy being out there as a team.

Like it was joyless the first two games. And now Wiggins looks like a different guy, both offensively and defensively, which was the bet, right? They bet we're going to bring Wiggins in. We'll put him in our culture with Steph and Draymond and Clay. Yeah.

And maybe we can eke this out of him because he's clearly talented. We can pull it out. And that's, I think the better part of it too was even like, hey, he might be like a fourth option or even a second option if we stagger the minutes out here. The Oubre thing's been a mess. You can even see they've scaled him out in some of the closing groups there. But I also feel like Steph went from, okay, look, I'm going to have to take some shots.

I mean, look, he sucked the other night in that Toronto win, 2-16. But the Steph factor is always the Steph factor. There were so many clips where you could see Toronto freaking out defensively, where four guys are looking at somebody. They're turning their backs to other people. And to see Draymond, and I don't always love this when teammates do this to each other, because I think a lot of times they're lying where they point to somebody else on the rotation. I mean, LeBron actually used to do it all the time where he would screw up the rotation and

he just points to the other guy and the other guy's younger. And he has to sort of take the blame on the broadcast. Harden does it all the time. Dudes do it like actually the higher profile guys do it. But when Draymond's doing it, I I believe Draymond like I believe like even Kawhi will do it sometimes I'm like no that was Kawhi's mistake Draymond when he's yelling at a guy I actually trust him because I think he actually is doing it the way that he would do it so to see their turnaround and now have them be wait are they gonna make the playoffs it still feels early to kind of sign off on that but just to see them be these two different versions this quickly to start the season has been fun to watch. The Wiggins thing is a fascinating wrinkle.

Because I was thinking back to, I went to the doubleheader game when Wiggins and Embiid and who was the other guy? And that ESPN, I sat courtside. Remember that day? It was like Kansas versus Duke and. Michigan state. And, uh, all the best guys were in that game.

Right. And Wiggins and Embiid were in it. Jabari Parker. That was another one. Um, I remember writing his first season. Like Wiggins is going to be good. We know what he is.

He's going to be a really good two way player who can make threes and he's going to get to 20 points a game and heins is going to be good. We know what he is. He's going to be a really good two way player who can make threes and he's going to get to 20 points a game and he's just going to be good. You can see it. Like he's, he's athletic. He knows where to go and what to do, whatever happened to him in Minnesota and how much damage there was from being a weird organization.

Um, I don't know what, what the Butler experience did for him. Doris Burke ripped him, Bill. Doris Burke laid into him. Yeah. She didn't do that anymore. Young player.

Yeah, she definitely doesn't. Young players, I think, can go sideways. But I also think they can be salvaged when they hit their mid-20s. And, you know, you and KOC,

we were texting about it the other day. Like, he's reengaged defensively in a way that this was when the Warriors were spinning the trade last year and he's re-engaged defensively in a way that this was when the Warriors were spinning the trade last year. And he knew if they're full of shit or not. And they're like, Hey, we think this guy can be a really good, valuable two-way guy for us. They're like, all right, cool. You just really wanted to pick. You'd want to get off of Russell's

contract. I gotta be honest. I would rather have Wiggins than Russell. If, if for the Warriors, for this specific team that they have, I think Wiggins just makes more sense for them. So the fact that they got a top three pick out of it too, that trade's a no-brainer. He did that trade a hundred times out of a hundred

because he's been re-engaged. No question. The difference is when Wiggins stinks, he'll shut down. When Russell stinks in a game, you're even more screwed because he's going to just

dominate all all these possessions and not make great decisions i'm not a d'angelo russell guy none of this is new i'm not ready to sign off on that wiggins now is is going to be all the things that we hoped that he could be because there's still a part of him with a makeup you go well how could you have been that bad and it was funny because on that text thread i remember because i did the grantland draft confidential for you guys and the constant theme was always this because of Wiggins athleticism. And what they'd seen at Kansas is that the, the worst version of Wiggins is still a really good perimeter player.

Who's still going to get you some buckets with as, as with his athleticism. But obviously the peak version of him is the shooter can put it on the floor, can do all these different things. And even though he scored points, there's still moments with Wiggins where you're completely underwhelmed. And it was definitely that beginning of the year, the beginning of the year. I'm like, God, why would anybody ever hold out hope for him?

And yet now he's put together a couple of weeks, but I'm still not ready to completely sign off on it. And I don't know if it was somebody I talked to or if I had read it where it was basically talking about Wiggins saying, well, we all knew out of Kansas that he was never going to be a good defender. And I was like, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I'm like, you are playing the result of who he's been and now changing the scouting report to match the product.

And it's just not true. Scouts did not think that scouts thought at the very least, like I said, he'll be a really good defensive player. And maybe it's just the accountability of somebody like Draymond as opposed to Carl Anthony towns being the other star who also just isn't good at defense. So maybe this thing can be salvaged, but all I can say is that it's just fun. It's just fun to see glimpses of Warriors basketball that we all fell in love with five years ago, other than Rockets and Thunder fans.

Going back to 2014 with Wiggins. I remember writing for Grant Lynn that summer when it was being rumored that they were going to trade the Wiggins pick for Kevin Love. And I think I made the argument in the piece. It was six years ago. I can barely remember what I did six weeks ago. But I think the argument was, don't do this trade yet. There's actually a case like this guy might become the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

This guy might, this guy is potentially such a good defender and such a good athlete. LeBron can kind of mold him into this Pippen type sidekick. And I would kind of rather see, I'd rather see that for 30 games before I decide to make the love trade that's going to be still sitting there

in February. I think that was the case I made. But the only reason I bring that up is I think we all thought Wiggins had the potential to be that kind of a two-way guy. Maybe not as good as Scottie Pippen, but somebody that could really be impactful on both ends. I also think there's some Rudy Gay-itis with him, where Rudy Gay hit this point where people were just completely out on him.

And it was like, all right. I mean, he's still a 20 point a game guy. It's still hard to score 20 points over the course of NBA season. You look at Wiggins. Wiggins was 17 a game as a rookie, 21 a game second year, 23.6 third year. And then in 2020 is 21.8. Like he's not terrible is my point. I think people got to the point with Wiggins where they were like, Oh man, that Wiggins. Well, it's like, he's not terrible. He's not, he's not a fucking liability.

He's still somebody who can play basketball and fill a stat sheet. The thing that bothered us is that we saw the potential and he wasn't tapping into it. And those are the guys that we always hold accountable the most. It's like, you should be better and you're not. So the contract and the contract, the contract's not his fault though. A lot of guys have, and actually, by the way, there's probably 30 guys now have a bigger

contract than them. So anyway, that was great for them. Cause I do think Wiggins is, is pretty salvageable. And then the, the Wiseman thing, I know we both love Wiseman. I think he's I talked about him on a previous pod. You have as well. There's just so much potential with that dude. And they're playing. They're playing it perfectly. 20 minutes a game. He is obviously a really smart kid

who's trying to learn as much as he can. His instincts are great. He can shoot, which is really rare for a five. And he's fucking big. He's a big dude. You're watching league pass. He stands out as like, that guy's big. He's big.

He's athletic. I don't know. He was my number one pick heading into the draft. I would not change it. Yeah, the early returns on this, even though Lomelo has been terrific and Anthony Edwards has had some really impressive moments, I think even a few weeks in, it almost feels like,

wait, why was there a debate about who was going to be number one? Because physically, it's stupid. He'll go up for rebounds where other guys haven't even thought of making that decision yet. And it's his rebound. What do they call that? Quick jump ability or twitch jumping? I think all those

work whatever whatever it is he has it he's he's jumping when the other guys are about to jump yeah because zion is zion's second jump like zion's second jump is so stupid compared to other guys and we're talking about other nba players and zion makes them look terrible on his second jump wiseman it's the first jump it's the wingspan it's the shoulders and he went up and just grabbed the ball out of the air against the guy the other night. But the thing I liked, even in the very limited Memphis games, some of the high school showcase stuff was that. And I don't even know which high school stuff I was watching on YouTube. So it was like I was down there with a clipboard or something. But he had a there was a version of him in there.

They're like, wait, he's got kind of like a really soft touch. But he puts it on the floor a little bit. Oh, he just showed this turnaround baseline like whoa wait like are these are these real quick jump hook gotta pass quick jump hook and it's just oh that was nice and he catches everything he catches fucking everything and he's he's actually been more decisive as a pro player than some of the moments that i saw him in, and again, limited time in Memphis. So this, we were starting to hear it. Remember, we were hearing it before the season started like, hey, this guy might be insane.

And you're like, all right, maybe. And here we both liked him, certainly more than below. But it is, there's whatever, look, I just hope his ceiling is close to what, because there's possibilities of a ceiling here that are his ceiling is close to what, cause there's, there's possibilities of a ceiling here that are really impressive. And I don't think golden state was selling us bullshit because that stuff started to happen for the season.

And you're like, Oh cool. You like the guy you pick like no shit. But Anthony, Anthony Slater wrote a really good feature about him. He's good. A lot of it was about, uh,

Penny Hardaway's influence on Wiseman when he was in high school and specifically like pulling him out of a private school, putting him in a public school because he wanted him to be against tougher competition and people who would really challenge him as a man, even though he wasn't a man yet, but just they, they wanted him to deal with a different level of intensity and pressure and guys going at him. And they put real thought into it. And you think like the guy has all the physical tools. We've had a lot of people like that over the years, but I think it was really helpful for him to have Penny Hardaway in his life at the age he had. Cause he had somebody who had really been through it. And I think Penny says in the piece,

something like the thing with Shaq was Shaq always felt like he was the best guy on the court and carried himself that way. And he was like, we wanted, we wanted James to, to feel that way and carry himself that way. And for that to happen, he had to play against this level of competition, do this. I think what shocked the Warriors is he just hasn't played basketball that much until, until they got to this abbreviated preseason where he played three college games and hadn't really done anything other than some summer stuff before this college season that never, that never really happened for him. And I think from what I heard, they're just all shocked that he was so easily acclimated. They also, he's a great teammate. You can see it on the sidelines. Like he's,

I don't think he'd ever be one of those like, Hey, it's James Wiseman time. It's time for me to start playing more. He's not one of those guys. He fits in with who they are. It's not Killian Hayes time? No. But yeah, he should. The fact that Minnesota didn't take him.

And we'll talk. I do like Edwards. But if your case for not taking Wiseman is we already have Carl Anthony Towns, that's fireable. Because I actually think they could have played together and already have Carl Anthony Towns. That's fireable. Because I actually think they could have played together and would have been

a real problem. And worst case scenario, just trade Towns. But Wiseman, it's like, those guys don't pop up in the draft. You know?

When it's right, when he has moments, and for some of you who may, you know, you just don't care, you haven't watched the Warriors yet. Watch Wiseman

for five-minute stretches. And, you know, it's new, care. You haven't watched the Warriors yet. Watch Wiseman for five minutes stretches. And you know, it's new, it's fun. It's exciting. It doesn't mean he's gonna be the best center in the league. I feel like we maybe turn this podcast into a little pro Wiggins at the end. I don't know that I wanted to co-sign on everything you were in there in the

end about Wiggins, but with Wiseman, it's just fun. It's so much fun. And a full version of the Warriors with him is, is kind of scary in a year. Wiggins isn't bad at basketball is my only point. Just co-sign that point.

And they might be able to listen. He guarded Siakam on that last play. They gave him the assignment and he, he did a really nice job and I've seen him do that where teams try to attack him and, and he can, when he gives a shit actually really can defend. But see,

I heard the warrior staff and the timeout said, Hey, see, I can, I'm going to get the ice. So he doesn't know what he's doing. We watched the Celtics playoff series. So just don't worry.

Just go nuts. Um, this is a good segue to rookies. Cause you know, like my son loves basketball cards and was like, we had to get in on this basketball. LaMelo is going to be awesome. And he's judging all of in on this basketball. LaMelo's going to be awesome. He's judging all of it from 2K.

LaMelo's 2K guy is awesome. He was right. This rookie class is good. I think in one of the most stunning... If you'd say, what's the most stunning thing of this season? I really like this rookie class. I really like Wiseman. I absolutely love Halliburton.

Edwards we'll get to in a second, but the shocker to me is LaMelo. And Jacoby and I have been going back and forth on LaMelo. And I'm just like, I'm out. He's too immature. He can't shoot. I don't see it. I think he's a gimmick. It's not going to happen. And on Saturday night, I apologized to Jacoby. And I was like, you were wrong. You were right. I was wrong. I'm going to take the loss. I love watching LaMelo. He's really fun to watch. He's fun to play with. He's way better than I thought. He's an impactful rookie right away. And I don't think the last four games where Charlotte won every game. And in the last three, he was really, really special in a couple of different stretches where he basically almost

averaged a triple double the last four games, like 14, 11 and eight. And they can't keep them off the floor. And, uh, he just has it. And I don't know if he's ever going to be able to guard anyone.

I don't know if he's going to be able to shoot, but he does so many good things during a game that he's really good. And I apologize to all the, uh, to all the Lamella backers. I wish I had been on the bandwagon earlier. I didn't think it was going to happen, but it has. Okay, I was I'm

surprised he's been this good already for a couple different reasons. And it's funny because Borrego, who's a terrific coach, needs to get more love with Charlotte. I mean, here we go again. And Devontae Graham has been terrible. He's like two completely different people. Hayward's been great. You know, they're go again. And Devontae Graham has been terrible. He's like two completely different people. Hayward's been great.

You know, they're going to have to go small a lot of times. Hayward kills me. Hayward's been awesome. Awesome. Where was this? Three years. LaMelo plays 16 games his first, 16 minutes his first game,

misses every shot in the game. He looked like a deer on ice. He had no idea what he was doing. And 15 minutes again, hit some buckets 13 points you're like okay and now you start looking at this minutes thing and they've won games twice against atlanta new orleans who i still can't figure out the knicks who's starting to cool off a little bit after you know the knicks probably weren't going to be your one seat in the

east they can't keep him off flight he shot like shit last night against the knicks but when i watched him in australia and this is where I would argue people like did you watch the Australian stuff because as I said I didn't say that the league was garbage I didn't say that Lamella was garbage I said his approach to the way he played the game was garbage because it was he's taking like eight or nine threes a game shooting in the 20s pulling up from 30 something feet fucking atrocious and not just clips like stretches of games no wait are you talking about right now or lamella hey look trey after the the john collins thing which was the most predictable thing i can't believe it took this long for fun to get out to be like hey we don't really love playing with this guy but i'm uh i'm taking some time off from any of the tray

negativity because the record's been decent and um he's shooting a little bit less. It's a losing record, but keep going. I interrupted you on LaMelo. Okay. LaMelo, when I watch the Australian, I go, if this fucking guy shows up to do this as an NBA kid, somebody's going to knock him out. And they were losing all of those games. And when he left, they were like, all right, see you later.

Like, this was stupid. Like, what was the whole point of this? And even RJ Hampton's camp is like, wait, why does this guy get to do whatever he wants and we're like actually trying to use me to real rotation like grown-ups so i thought if he played that way because that's what i was going off of i'm like this is the funny thing here is and maybe it makes sense because he actually seems to have a really good personality like he carries himself away in a very like he's he tanked the interviews so that we can say that a very... He tanked the interviews. We can say that now officially. He 100% tanked the interviews.

And after the interview part, GMs were like, I don't know about this guy. And then there was this momentum that it was like, oh, this guy might suck. And then towards the very end, a couple of teams that I did trust

were like, man, we really think... Because you could see the size, the vision, and all the playmaking and the rebounding at the position, which is nuts. But here's my final point on it, is that Lomelo showed up to the NBA with far more respect for the league and his teammates than I think he ever had in Australia. And that was something I completely missed on. I didn't realize how much better he was going to be with better teammates because he was actually going to give a shit what they thought about him. I feel like

the kid I watched in Australia just didn't care. He was just there to try to get buckets and highlights. He's been an awesome teammate. He's really unselfish. He plays with a specific pace that I love where it's like even after a made basket, he's off, his head's up. He's looking for anybody that might leak out. He made a play,

when they played last night or two nights ago. Last night. He, there was just a rebound and he threw like a 75 yard, 75 foot pass to Hayward. Like one hand caught the pass and just zipped it. Like Josh, 14 rebounds,

hit 14 rebounds last night. He missed every shot for the most part. And I still don't know. He can't, he can't shoot and he doesn't play defense. He at least tries on defense, though, which I wasn't expecting. He's at 35% from three,

which I didn't know if he would ever get that in a season in his career. And I'm still not sure that that number's going to hold up. They're all ugly. Yeah. What is it?

Go ahead. Well, one thing I like, and this is what I judge with rookie guards. I call this the Sebastian Telfair theory. I'm throwing a lot of theories at you today. You got to finish at the rim.

This is why I like Pritchard. Pritchard, you know, shorter. I don't think he's an amazing athlete, but when he drives to the basket, he actually gets layups and he might have to double clutch it. He might do the sneaky Nash off the one foot, but he'll get the layup off.

LaMelo goes to the basket. He's already kind of can bounce off guys, and maybe he doesn't always make the shot, but his instincts are right for either I'm going to go, I'm going to beat this person to the square, or I'm going to bounce off this person and do a little double clutch hold thing,

but he's more physical than I expected. But partly because he's tall, and I think when teams play in there, kind of like, holy shit, this guy's 6'8". He's like Jason, almost Jason Tatum size. And he kind of knows how to use it. The passing is obviously the thing that's, all that really matters here.

The rebounding has been impressive too, but his passing and the effect it has on his team where then all of a sudden, like you see, Bridges is throwing like a nice pass. And when guys are around that every day playing it, they start seeing the passes a little better.

So anyway, I was wrong. Great pick by Charlotte. And kudos to him for tanking the interviews and ending up on the team he wanted because it's a perfect fit for him. Yeah, but the weird thing is he was telling people

before the draft he was going one. He was telling people he was going one, which, you know which maybe it was just a thing that got out that was just a bunch of kids bullshitting with each other and giving each other a hard time. So I don't know. But I'd heard the same thing to you. The interviews are bad. He's had all this bad momentum.

But then towards the last few days, I remember I was talking to him. He's like, hey, are you hearing anything weird on LaMelo? I don't know. It seems like teams that I started to respect were like, hey, are you hearing anything weird on LaMelo? I don't know. It seems like teams that I started to respect were like, we actually think this kid has a chance. I don't know. Watch the Australian stuff and tell me it's good, and then we can disagree about it. One thing I got to ask you, are you jacking my

theories here? The Sebastian Telfair theory is my theory. Is this what's happening? Did you call it the Sebastian Telfair theory? Did I have to, because you texted me about Pritchard and I go, Oh my God,

like Pritchard's good. And we're going back and forth. Well, you did. You did. Oh, really? Oh,

there's still a little animosity. There's a little, the tone's still a little off. I remember when, when Danny traded for Telfair, when he traded the seventh pick of the draft for him, it was, I was really excited. I was like, oh, cool.

This guy was an unbelievable high school player. I can't wait to watch him. And you were living in Boston back then, so you remember this. And he started playing and he would have these awesome moves and he'd get to the rim

and they would just get blocked. He'd be like, oh, that was weird. And then it would happen again. But he didn't know it yet. It took him a while to go, yeah, you're never going to finish at the rim. He'll just get blocked. He'd be like, oh, that was weird. And then it would happen again. But he didn't know it yet. It took him a while to go, yeah, you're never going to finish at the rim. He'll figure it out. He's like, no, he got blocked again. And then it became clear that was just what his NBA

career was going to be like. Pritchard, not the case for him, which is another one of my favorite rookies. Can we talk about Edwards really fast, though? Sure. He's a guy that I think is born in the wrong era. I think he would have been an unbelievable guy for like 1994. I, you know, like that, that Sprewell rider, that athletic guard who just has all the gifts and just is putting up stats.

And we're not really judging them because we don't have the internet yet. You watch him play. I don't know if he's ever going to put it all together. He might not. His first step, he really looks like young Dwayne Wade 2.0. When you watch him, he'll have one play and you'll go, holy shit. Like athletically, that is an A++. Nobody has more athletic ability than whatever he just showed on that play. And heically, that is an A plus plus. Nobody has more athletic ability than whatever he just showed on that play. And he'll do that. And it just seems like at the very worst case scenario,

he's going to be a 20 a game guy in two years. I have no idea if his teams will ever win. It does seem like he plays hard. He is such a good athlete. Like he can guard people, but then you, part of the thing is it makes sense that he picked up basketball. What in like ninth grade, 10th grade, he was a football player. You can kind of see it. Sometimes he looks like the football player in the pickup game. Who's way better than everybody athletically, but still doesn't a hundred percent know what he's doing. I'm fascinated by him. I think he's a rollercoaster ride. I don't know if he should have been the first pick, but he is fucking gifted. And I don't

know how it plays out. You could give me any scenario with him and I would believe it. So if you redrafted the top, would you go Wiseman? You'd have him so you'd have Halliburton third. Or would you have him second?

No, I'd go Wiseman, Halliburton, Lomelo. I'd still have Lomelo third. As great as I think Lomelo's good, I just think Halliburton's going to be a multi-time all-star. And a safer... As you know, my goal is to... I want to try to win the title if I have a top three pick. I love what Lomelo's doing.

I'm not sure it will ever translate to anything more than something that's super fun and a team that goes 49 and 33 and loses in round two Halliburton will be on a team that he could be one of the best three guys on a championship team and I think Wiseman could too yeah Wiseman is clearly one no idea yeah I think a lot of this too was the expectations were so low for the top end. Like, hey, where's that franchise-changing guy? Like, wait, this guy might go fourth or fifth. Like, wait a minute.

Are you serious? Like, this guy would usually go like 11th or 12th. And this is what we have at the group. But the Wiseman part was so unknown. The Lomelo thing was weird because, you know, it didn't look great over there. And Edwards was on a team that lost all these games. And it was a dude that took a million shots, a ton of threes that were bad threes and didn't hit him. He's also still doing that uh for minnesota but maybe we're so conditioned

to think the class was going to be so bad that the fact that we're seeing so many positives makes us like be just really excited to be about minimal stuff because there's nights with edwards like what is he supposed to be his number one overall pick he's at 26 and he had zero within the span of three days. The zero was something. I think he is what we thought he was going to be. I'm just saying, I test. And he's one of those, there's a bunch of guys in this draft that I can't wait to see in person. Because I think we feel the same way about this.

In person, you just pick stuff up differently. I really want to see Edwards in person. I want to see how fast his first step is. He's had a couple moments when he's just gone by people where they weren't even like in a defensive stance yet. And he's like already at the rim, like doing something. Um, I would have Wiseman, Halbert and Lamello. I think it drops off to Edwards. Pritchard in front of Edwards. I had six other guys that I've really liked that, that are clearly something. I think Williams on the bulls is something. I don't know what it is yet, but he's something. And I like that he always seems to be out there

in big moments for them. They're already kind of relying on him as somebody. Pritchard. I think Pritchard's really good. I think he's going to be a good player. Sadiq Bae is a tough one for the Celtics. Yeah. They took Neesmith over him.

And I think even basketball people we knew were like, why didn't they just take Sadiq Bey? They really needed to come out of that pick with a small forward that could take off some Jalen Tatum minutes and Neesmith that hasn't been able to play. Maxie, he's something. I don't know what it is, but he's clearly something. that he'll be a fun wrinkle for them off the bench. I like a Coro. I like that. He doesn't necessarily need the ball to have an impact. And that team's been a little bit more entertaining than I think we expected. And then I'm like halfway there with Cole Anthony would be my sixth guy.

He's clearly something. I don't know whether he's a third guard on a good team or he's a starter on a good team, but he's somebody. Anybody I missed? That would be my 10. I think I like Quickly better than Maxie. Okay. I forgot Quickly. Quickly should be Maxie Okay, I forgot Quickly

Quickly should be on there, you're right So that's 11 So we've listed 11 guys now Yeah, but I also think it's kind of the Hey, who have you liked that you've watched so far? And I know that But we've seen everybody I know the numbers aren't like staggering

But I just like watching Precious Achua I like how he fits in. He's not going to be a star. I like some of the stuff that he does, even though I think he's probably capable a little bit more. But the guy's taking five shots a game. So if you're looking for offense, if you're looking for big buckets from him, no.

But that probably pertains back to the Celtics thing with Neesmith instead of a Sadiq Baer, instead of a Precious. But, you know, whatever. The Paul Reed is kind of interesting, too.. The plus minus stuff I saw this morning was like, wait a minute, but I don't know what to make of some of the six or stuff because the six is part of it. The offense still wasn't that great, but they were incredible defensively defensive ratings. Number one coming in, but the schedule was really easy. So they have this great

record, but then Simmons misses a game. So think the the fact that they're spacing it better it doesn't mean anything for simmons his offensive numbers are are nowhere now like we were doing some of the things you were asking to do for this podcast like what do i do with ben simmons when he's like the fifth leading scorer on the team um i feel like that trade is more likely than it was five days ago really because i feel like everybody's been saying that around the league for days. Like, oh, the Harden-Simmons thing, it's going to happen,

it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I feel like it happens. Okay. I like, I like this draft. I like the guys. And, you know,

I haven't even, the USC kid, Quango, how do you say his name? Quango. Haven't really gotten a feel for him yet. Hayes was the one

that really scared me because even, and he had a bad injury too, but even before that happened, I just didn't see it. I didn't really see it in the YouTube clips. Um, I thought he was too slow and you could make a case like, well, Donchik is too slow and it's fine for him. Like he plays at his pace and makes shit happen. But I just don't know if you can be, play at the pace that he plays and be successful as a point guard. And he was dramatically unsuccessful those first few games before he got hurt.

I'm not going to write him off, but. No, this is, a lot of this stuff is, you know, we could even be looking back at the end of this season, listening to this part of the pod going, oh, you know, remember? So yeah, it all goes with it. It's way too early.

I'm not writing off anyone. Detroit should have taken Halliburton at seven anyone Detroit should have taken Halliburton at 7 Phoenix should have taken Halliburton at 9 and you can make a case for the Wiz at at 9 Phoenix was 10

Avdija Avdija Avdija Avdija Avdija I think unless it changed again so Avdija

he's fine he's comfortable I don't that team's such a mess I can't even figure out yeah I don't know what to make I think, unless it changed again. Abdiah. He's fine. He's comfortable. That team's such a mess, I can't even figure out. Yeah, I don't know what to make of the team, and I don't know what his elite skill is. All right, we're going to take one more break, and then we'll do league pass records. At Pennzoil, we have one job,

pioneering a motor oil so advanced, you don't have to think about your motor oil instead you can think about how your engine sounds how your stomach feels as the rpms build how your wheels hug the curves and how with the pens oil platinum up to 15 year 800 000 kilometer protection guarantee your adventures will be many pens oil long may we drive available at your local canadian tire enrollment required Keep your receipts. Other conditions apply. See Pennzoil.ca slash warranty for full details.

What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend that powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days. And the ability to reach further with access to over 1400 airport lounges worldwide redefine possible with business platinum that's the powerful backing of american express terms and conditions apply visit amex.ca slash business platinum all right we do league pass rankings in a second but you want to play a little game a real or not so yeah you sent play a little game of real or not.

Yeah, you sent me a list of players, real or not, because we've had an explosion here for people's careers. I don't know historically where this compares, but you sent me Mikael Bridges, all right? He's second in team in scoring as you said off the top. He's 15-5-1, and he's shooting 45% from three. He was career 35%, and he just wasn't a guy that gave you really much offensively and you probably started looking at him as somebody hey we need if this guy's in our rotation we probably need to

replace him and now he looks like a guy who may even get a second contract I guess it's real because he's shooting and the defense and the way he fits in and that are not like they're not asking him to do a lot so 15 points a game for Mikael Bridges I don't know why that wouldn't be real is that fair

the other thing that's real know why that wouldn't be real. Is that fair? The other thing that's real and why I think it's real, the quotes from the teammates about him. Chris Paul is not a guy who's like, I'm just going to throw some phony quotes around with one of my teammates just to try to boost him up. I actually think Chris Paul is a pretty authentic guy.

This much Barker can fucking go. He's built it. Yeah, if Chris Paul, he pretty authentic guy. This much Parker can fucking go. He's built. Yeah. If, if Chris Paul, he's not going to be like, here's some fake quotes about this guy. Cause I'm trying to pump them up. He's either going to say it,

tell it like it is, or he won't say anything. And he's been adamant about how good bridges is. And some of the other guys in that team, like there's just buzz with him. I think they like playing with them. I think he's perfect for what they do. So I think it's real too.

And you know And it's yet another Philly asset from the wreckage of 10 for Zaire Smith in the Miami pick. Which then they threw toward Tobias Harris and they just could have had Mikael Bridges. Yikes. Next one.

Hayward. Is this real? It is real. Because guess what? When he's healthy he's a really good player. And now the whole reason, part of the reason, there's a lot of stuff that went on with the Boston thing. He wanted to be the number one guy again. He had a chip on his shoulder about it. And he can be upset that the Celtics moved on from him, but he wasn't healthy enough.

And guess what? Tatum turned into a star. Jalen Brown got really good. And then Kemba Walker was an all-NBA player the year prior, ends up being on the team. And Hayward wasn't healthy. So I can understand Hayward's point, but there has to be some, um, self accountability here where you're like, I just wasn't healthy. So it wasn't like they could wait and like sometimes use the fifth

option out there. I'm sure Hayward didn't love Marcus smart dagger threes with 21 seconds left on the shot clock, but he wanted to go not only get paid, but he wanted to go somewhere where he could prove that he was the man again. And even with a Charlotte team that, who knows, they're probably not making the playoffs here. It's real because this is how good he is when he's right. And it's not like he's 38 years old here. I'm with you.

I also fully expect him to have some sort of dumb, unlucky injury in the next three weeks because that's just been his career for four years. If he can stay healthy this whole year, he clearly just loves having the ball. And you think like, I think we do underestimate that sometimes with basketball where some guys aren't meant to be the fourth option. Some guys like in his case, he was the number one option everywhere he played for his entire life. And now it's like, Hey, cool. When you come back after you finished rehabbing your ankle

that has the metal rod in it, you're going to be our fifth option. So good luck. Just set some picks. Every once in a while, we'll let you shoot. I can see why he didn't love it, but he just had bad luck in Boston. On this Wanamaker flair,

you're going to get it back to Wanamaker. Well, it is like, if you're talking about if you're talking about what ifs he was playing like this last year before he broke his hand and then that set him in another spiral and then he comes back for the bubble he sprains his ankle if you took this charlotte version even 80 of it and put him in that miami series they beat miami in round three 80 of this yeah because the guy was so bad he was 10 of us because he was he just was in and out you know how it is you and house you're playing two and two if you've

been off for a while you just touch around the rim house just wasn't going to finish they'd be like what's wrong with your house so um look he was right he was i got his point i got the celtics point yeah he's good for a divorce he's a divorce. Sometimes it's time to go. But you shouldn't have paid him $120 million if you were Boston. So literally everyone is right in this. It's one of those deals. Julius Randle, is it real or no? His minutes are up.

I mean, the Tibbs minute stuff with the two young guys. He's going to figure out if Randle and Barrett can go. And honestly, I think Barrett playing 37 instead of 32 minutes isn't going to prematurely end his fucking career. So maybe we can not worry about that as much. Randall shooting is, is, is above where he's been at 35% versus 30 from three, but the assists, the playmaking with this dude who you felt like was pretty one-dimensional as an offensive guy. I've always liked his talent. This seems a little late to be this good, but the assist thing is the thing that really jumps out. So I don't know about that. Well, I mean, he was like, if you had a black hole to be this good, but the assist thing is the thing that really jumps out. So I don't know about that. Well, he was like, if you had a black hole all-star team, he would have been

on the starters, right? Ball went to him, that was it. I didn't think he could pass out of double teams and create stuff like this. He also looks just in better shape and just more physically imposing. Almost like how he looked in college.

There's something about that Knicks uniform and whatever's going on this year with Tibbs. I don't know. Christian Wood, you believe? Well, if you're going to take 17 shots a game now and you're playing off a Harden, like the two top isolation players in the league are Harden and Wall by ISO tracking, which sometimes I don't always agree with. Wood' career high in shot attempts per game was seven. Now he's at 17.

So the numbers are incredible, except for the fact that he's taking almost five threes a game and shooting 25%. I'm not quite sure why he keeps doing that. But now if we keep going on this, there's a pattern of players, Bill, that are getting opportunities that are so far beyond anything they've ever gotten before that this is where I start to think there are a lot of people, a lot of players in this league that put up numbers have never been easier to come by with the way the offenses have played, the number of threes, the pace, the total shot attempts in the game itself. We're seeing a lot of guys be the focal point of offenses that are taking shots that they've never taken before. And you're like you're like okay well is this really that this guy was always awesome and now it was a secret or

is the team doing something wrong here but wood is going to have all the room in the world even still playing with heart it's kind of like the capella thing remember capella put up capella looked really good but he also looked really good with harden where that's why daryl's like yeah whatever you guys can have capella. I don't care. And now the funny thing I'll see with, I'll see the funny thing with Capella is that Atlanta will like, he'll want to post and it's not something off a Trey young. It'll be like,

all right, I have the ball. Now I'm Clint Capella. Now I'm going to make some basketball decisions here. And it's kind of a mess, but they're being nice to the new guy by giving him looks that he never got with the old team, which we're seeing a lot of.

We're seeing it with Grant. We're seeing it with Wood. I went through this. There are 18 players in the league today, Bill, taking 18 or more shot attempts per game. 18 players. Five years ago, that number was at five. Six years ago, that number was at five. This is the most profound stat breakdown ever. But even at Jeremy Grant, whose numbers are sick across the board,

his career attempts was seven a game, and now Detroit's running their offense through him. And after that first game where he was bad, 30 minutes, no rebounds, I'm like, here we go, Jeremy Grant game. He's been incredible. He's hitting threes. He's had a couple big plays to close out nice wins. But they have the worst record in the East and they have the 24th ranked offense.

So there's a group of players now that are getting the numbers that we've never, even Andre Drummond. I watched some of these calves games and I go, why the fuck is Andre Drummond like in charge of the possession here? He's taken a career high 16 shots or more a game. Granted sex has missed some time, but there's,

I don't know what tier it is, Bill. I don't know what group it is, but I think it's a misleading thing that we're seeing in basketball where there are guys getting more opportunities than we've ever seen before where offenses are completely dictated by them. And I'm not sure they're quite the guy you want that to have that kind of responsibility. You've stumbled into a theory that I call the Walt Bellamy theory. Now I'm just making this up. Um, the 1962 season, which I was fascinated by

because I was when Oscar did the triple-double. I did a lot of, when I was doing my book, I was like, Oscar's triple-double. Kind of overrated considering all the shots. Because it's shot attempts. Exactly. The points, the pace, all that stuff. Richie Guerin averaged 29.5 points a game that year.

He was, it went Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Pettit, Robertson, West. Richie Guerin was our sixth leading scorer that year. It went Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Pettit, Robertson, West, Richie Guerin was our sixth leading scorer that year. The points were out of control. Everybody was shooting 30 field goals a game. Wasn't it also like 109 attempts per team

back then? That was the league average. I still think we're like 14 off from that and we're 10 above where we were just a few years ago in this league. We're averaging like 10 more that and we're 10 above where we were just a few years ago in this league so we're averaging like 10 more shots per team per game it was that we were philly i love this stat because it's important philly averaged 111.6 field goal attempts a game like think about that also they only shot 44 percent so there was a million rebounds. That's another thing. There's a million rebounds.

You and I love Bill Russell, but when you go, how the fuck did this guy get 44 rebounds in these playoff games? He had 55 in a playoff game. Yeah. Every team in the league had at least 104 field goal attempts

because it was just, you would run back and forth and shoot, and it was just like pinball. That was how they played. I'm not saying it's as bad now, but. No, the Spurs lead the league right now in 95, 95 attempts per game. That'll probably go down. It's, but I, you know, I was working on this quite a bit.

I mean, if you go back to, we're already six ahead of where we finished six years ago. We're like 10 ahead of where we were 10 years ago. And on top of that, you throw in, hey, we're not taking 30 threes a game. We're taking 45 threes a game. So you add in that part of the math. So look, I'm not shitting on these guys. I just think that there's so many players

because you and I were going to do this later. You're top 30, you're top 40. You start getting to 30 and you go, I'm going to leave this guy off. He's averaging like 26 a game. I think we have to look at it differently, especially with the explosion of shot attempts and threes and all the stuff where i'm like okay i know what your i know what your numbers are but are you just putting up 25 and seven and you lose every

fucking night like what am i supposed to do with that you're talking to zach levine no okay um uh yeah we're on the same page. I think this is the first year that guys have felt fully comfortable on a one-on-two or a one-on-three fast break where they don't have numbers instead of pulling it back, just being like, cool, I'm going to take a three. Coach won't get mad.

I can't remember how many times that's happened before this season, but I feel like I watch it at least four times in any game I see. Somebody's like, cool, I'm just going to pull up here. It's weird when the guy tries the layup now. Yeah.

Or when the guy gives up the layup because there's somebody open in a corner. Donchich does it. I'll never get used to that. Donchich will have the angle where you're like, why didn't you just throw it off the glass? I'm like, nah, I'm just going to kick it to the corner. I'll never get used to it. League pass rankings. Your favorite league

pass team so far through three weeks is? Phoenix. Okay. I had them fifth. Okay. My,

we'll just go back and forth forth My number one league pass team So far Snake draft Charlotte I almost had him in my five Charlotte is like What Charlotte's like one of those

Awesome action movies Where they're like Oh Nick Cage is in this It's just There's stuff Between the L lamello thing. Rozier, who I think has been,

he was good last year. He's been pretty good with lamello. Hayward's resurgence. Bridges will have like quarters where he just seems like he's the best player of the week. You're like, why isn't this guy like a seven time all-star? I like PJ Washington.

I keep waiting for them to put in Malik Monk just so he can enjoy, but they never will. They won't play Malik Monk, but the Lamello piece and how fascinating it is to watch them. I am now at the point when, like last night, like, oh, what games are on? Which one am I? Oh, Charlotte. Okay. They're my number one. Yeah, and I'll

even have moments where I'm like, is that Caleb or is it Cody? Still not 100% sure. Yeah, so one of those twins had a dog. And then sometimes you're like, is Batum still on the team? And you'm like, is that Caleb or is it Cody? Still not a hundred percent sure. Yeah. So one of those twins. And then you're like, and then sometimes you're like, is Batum still on the team? And you're like, no, it's one of the Martins. What are the, I was watching with my son. Cause my son watches Lamella. One of those twins dunked from like the dotted circle over somebody.

And it was like, it was like the best dunk of the year. And it was just a Charlotte game. 10 things are happening per game. That was Caleb. Yeah. He plays a little bit more. One thing that I think is fun about them. I mean, they badly overpaid for Hayward.

It was a ridiculous contract. But how else are they going to get somebody? And it actually has worked out so far. So did the LaMelo pick, which I guess raises the question, was this the year of Michael Jordan last day? It's nails. The lamello pick nails, the Hayward signing. At least it looks that way through 10 days. Um, I don't know. Maybe it was, maybe this is the MJ decade, the 2020s feels early feels a little early feels he thinks hey we're just gonna like break a toe tomorrow uh all right who do you have number two league pass new orleans because i'm constantly

trying to figure out what the hell they're gonna look like um the beginning of the year with the adams zion brandon ingram lineup and then not having the shooting in the backcourt which clearly stand understands i thought defensively when they played against Miami, I was like, oh my God, but they've actually rebounded a big way. Defensively, they're really good defensively as far as the stats are concerned. And then they did, I think it was the Pacers game. Yeah, it was. It was that overtime game that drove me crazy because they started the game without Zion, but they went really small where they played Zion at the five because you can do that against the Pacers, especially if it's only Sabonis and a non-Turner lineup. And I think even with Turner, especially if it's only Sabonis and a non Turner lineup.

And I think even with Turner, they tried it a little bit too. I'm not sure, but so they're constantly trying things that are different. Nikhil was playing after not playing in the beginning of the year. And I think Brandon Ingram has been terrific. Harry. Yeah.

No, different one, slightly better. Not already. Does this one get open? He does. He does. He gets open a little bit more. But, but a lot of it is, Slightly better. Not already a buy. Does this one get open? He does. He does.

He gets open a little bit more. But a lot of it is the Zion part and loving Ingram, but I'm in this quest to figure out what the hell they're going to look like once they figure out who they're going to be because it's still kind of tough to figure out. So that's a curiosity one more than anything else. They didn't crack my top six. That's fine. Two things.

I just get mad about the Stephen Adams trade when I watch them. I just don't understand it. Rim protection. Okay. All right. I just don't, like, where are you going? If anything, they would have been better off

just being like a young team. I don't know what they are. And I think when I watch them, I'm just confused. It's like, is this a team that's supposed to make the playoffs? Is this a team that's building on young people? Are they showcasing Eric Bledsoe? Hey,

every time I watch, I go, yep, still don't know. So yeah, you're right. But I like, as long as Zion has a few moments,

it's worth it. Yeah. But here's the thing. I kind of wanted Zion to have his own team it feels like he's on Brandon Ingram's team which is not what I wanted I just wish he was on Detroit and he was on a shitty team just putting up stats I don't like that he's like the second

option on a team because I think you and I both thought he had a chance to be really special Ingram's been great offensively at least but if you were on a team that sucked scoring 30 a night where the offense

runs through him because that is the you don't even need to run anything for Zion he's still physically at a point where you're like it doesn't matter

he's gonna get 20 and 10 he's just going to roll the ball out don't call one thing for him so for him to take that next level although sometimes I'm like

what if he doesn't progress what if he has like a weird Rasheed Wallace thing where his athleticism is gone and he's the most fun he's the most fun hard and trade that would never happen but yeah that's a good one but but there's one where it's like if you put brandon ingram hard in some of their other pieces and basically it was just zion for hard and they kept all their picks and they threw in a contract to make it work.

Whatever. But that's the most fun one. I know it won't happen. But if you were on a bad team scoring a million points you'd be like, he needs help. So he has help right now. That's the way I look at it. But you're right. It is Brandon Ingram's team offensively. I wish it was Zion's team. My second favorite team to watch on

League Pass is the Golden State Warriors now that Draymond is back. I root for them. I really want Curry to do well. I just love Curry. Curry's my favorite non-Celtic. And they just feel like a true team. A lot of these teams feel like the rosters

just got thrown together right before the season started and they're all meeting each other. And I know that was kind of the case with the Warriors anyway, but I like watching Steph. I missed watching Steph last year. I feel like we haven't seen him for forever. And it would be more fun if Clay thing, but that thing with Golden State,

I keep coming back to like, would it have just been more fun if they never signed Durant? I know it led to a couple of titles. I know it led to maybe the best team we've ever seen, but is it just more fun if he went somewhere else and they kept that dream on clay, whatever this version of the team is with clay. If we had just had that over the, those three years, instead of the awesome super team with

Durant that ultimately nobody could even play on their level and they were never really challenged. I too took Golden State. I, too, took Golden State. I took them third in this one. I had so much fun in the 62-point game for Steph. I hadn't been like that with a regular season basketball game in a while. It was a bit of a reminder. We actually let out a yell when he hit the one to make it 62.

You were like, wait, is this happening? Is this going to happen? And you're like, what's the career high? And then you kind of see how everything was going on around it. So, you know, a little less. If I'm Oubre, I would pull him aside and be like, hey, you can't celebrate turnovers until you make a few more threes. We're going to need you.

So we're on the same page. Get it up to 20%. Yeah, because they also, the Curry part's so fun. I like the chemistry of the team and then the Wiseman wrinkle every game where he's just doing two things. My third favorite team,

I have to go Sacramento, but I think it's Stockholm syndrome because they're just on in the late game and I just feel like I've seen more of them than I wanted to go Sacramento, but I think it's Stockholm syndrome because they're just on in the late game. And I just feel like I've seen more of them than, than I wanted to see. But, um,

they did something interesting last night. They basically decided Bagley is just going to play 20 minutes a game in that they're going to close with Rashawn Holmes, Harrison Barnes, buddy healed Fox, Halliburton, and Bagley is just going to have to be on the bench. And I don't, I always liked for Sean Holmes,

but always kind of liked him as a 20 minute game guy. He's like a legitimate close the game, good on both ends. I don't know what happened to him this year, but he made a leap. And I like the way those five guys play together. I like watching it and I really like Albert. So, um, the other thing they did,

they, they got Mark Jones as their play by play guy. So that their play by their broadcast is way better than just about everybody else's broadcast. Cause he actually is a good play by play guy. Um, so anyway, uh,

Sacramento would be my third pick, just a hair over my fourth pick, which I'll tell you in a second. Really good pick. They were in the conversation, but I think it's the exact same thing. I'm like, oh, I'm watching Sacramento again. Like, what the hell's going on?

But I watched to see what Bagley looks like. That's kind of been my first, because I would go, hey, spend some time on Bagley here. And he looks lost. I think I saw five or six possessions in the game last night where he should have gotten the

ball and it don't pass to him it was i think i think they're out on him yeah i i feel the exact same way and i'm not even sure i'm right about it but it was a lot of like yeah you can't get it you can't feed him a couple times on the roll okay he's sealed again and you can see he'll wait he'll wait and it's like fuck these guys and then he goes into the corner he goes stands in the corner because you go i put in all this work i ran the fucking floor off a miss i'm here in transition i set up and you ran some shit and this is it like all right i guess i'll go stand over here now and let the guards go because it is healed halliburton and fox and fox's dunk last night's one of the best dunks you're gonna see in the regular season. Incredible dunk.

Who's your dream that? Yeah, that was great. Plus that he had the scream, but the camera, they had forgotten to turn it off. So it just sounded like he was screaming in your living room. Who's your favorite Bagley trade partner? I'm on the spot

here a little bit. I'll give you I'll give you two fun ones. Because I asked you, would you trade Peyton Pritchard for Bagley? Oh, God. He's untouchable. Can't trade Peyton Pritchard. No, but if there was a Time Lord,

Romeo Langford, two future firsts, whereas basically they're just trading four quarters for a dollar type of trade, I would do that in a heartbeat. I think he would be fun for Oklahoma City for everything they're trying to do. I think there's a fun version of something

with Oklahoma City. Bagley just needs to be in a bad team where he can score 25 points for a year and try to... I don't know if he can do that, though. I don't... Because the downside to him when he came out of Duke, Bill,

was some of this stuff that he's just way bigger than everybody and he's making all this stuff happen around the hoop. You know, of course, you were constantly saying, hey, you know, he's going to stretch the floor a little bit

to show some of these perimeter things to turn into this awesome version of him. But now he doesn't even have the opportunity to do any of that stuff and it's obviously a lot harder and it feels like his teammates don't trust him. Don't trust him with the ball.

But I'm not sure I'm even signing off on that yet. He was 15 a game as a rookie in 25 minutes. I just think he would score if it was a philosophy of the team he played for. On this team,

they don't need him to score. The team's built around their three guards. You know who I like with Oklahoma City is Diallo the other night against the Knicks. I keep getting back to him. Yeah, what's up with him?

Is he good? I had the same thing. He can't shoot. He can't shoot and he's a perimeter guy. But man, he gets, he puts it on you. Like he gets to the rim and stuff. I mean, Oklahoma City, who I still think, look, they're one of the worst offenses in the league. So it's not like I was wrong about their rotation, but they've been oddly competitive.

Wait, who'd you do for your third pick? Golden State. Okay. So then I'm up at number or europe we're fourth yeah i like watching houston suck i love it you you love nothing makes you happier than when harden just completely gives up when he's been screened it's hilarious and you know it's it's for all the people that have said now he's really good defensively now he's turned it around because what was good in the post, because how many times was he getting posted up like twice a game ever? And so when you watch Harden, because he's putting up massive numbers again, they're incredible, the offensive numbers.

When you watch him, he has as many losing plays in a game. I actually wish I were still at ESPN for this reason, no offense to the ringer, but I want to pitch a show where I go, this is the truth about so-and-so, and I'm just going to sit there. And you don't even have to have me be on it. I'll produce it where I'd get a former player to go, see here baseline what he did you see here where he decided to stay even though he's supposed to go here after the screen you see on this screen he didn't go over or under he took the third option we've rarely seen where you just stop playing so i like the moments where wall looks great i actually thought that demarcus cousins going at marqukeith Morris was hilarious. Although that was bizarre. The walk away.

I didn't understand how he played that. He was almost like he was pretending Mark Morris wasn't there. Yeah, I almost make him mad by doing the I was trying to picture if that fight happened at a bar, how it would play out. I don't think you'd want to mess with Cousins because he didn't. It was almost like he didn't feel like a huge individual bumped into him as hard as he did. So that one was kind of funny.

And then when he swiped at LeBron, he went to hit him hard because he was frustrated. And he's already been ejected from two games already this season, Cousins. He's tied for the league lead in text. Do you know with who? Probably not. Your boy, Doncic.

Little attitude out of your Slovenian. Well, because he's dieting. Oh, that's true. His lack of food is making him hungry. And Davis Bertine. So it's cousins and it's tall, foreign white guys getting a lot of texts early this year. Get those checks, Davis.

Yeah, I am on a thread with Bill where I send... I can watch the Rockets for five or six minutes and I'll already have six or seven hardened clips where I go, I can't believe how much this guy doesn't care. And that's saying something about somebody who's given us tons of evidence that he doesn't care. Yeah, I'm with you.

But does anybody talk about it? That's my point. I don't think anybody really talks about it. Well, it's a very player-friendly league these days. I have Indiana fourth. Even now that TJ Warren got hurt, which was a bummer, I still,

I really like watching Sabonis. I really do. I just really enjoy it. Was he in your top 30 players, by the way? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, me too.

I don't think it's really much of an argument. The, the, the Brogdon, I like watching watching Brogdon does some weird stuff offensively that I think is just unique. And the Oladipo, them trying to figure out what he is and how far back he is. And then him and Brogdon in the front seat of the car kind of debating who should hold the steering wheel, I think has been interesting. And then the Miles Turner, just I'm mad. I was in the Gordon Hayward trade rumors. I'm going to try to block everything. I'm, I'm challenging all shots. He's got, he's like over four blocks a game, but he actually has been kind of impactful defensively. And I like their bench. They

have a bunch of bench guys. I like, I like, uh, I like the other two holidays. I like Doug McDermott. Um, I just kind of like watching them and I like their offense. I like what other two holidays. I like Doug McDermott. I just kind of like watching them. And I like their offense. I like what they run. Every game seems to be entertaining. Always seems to come down to like the last couple minutes of them. So that'd be my fourth team. I'll just go quickly.

Boston would be the fifth because I think Boston, the Tatum Brown thing has just been delightful to watch. And then Phoenix would be my sixth. Who did you have for fifth and sixth? I had Boston fifth. If you hate the Celts and you don't like what, you're really missing out on something special with Tatum and Brown.

It's incredible, man. I said this last week. I'm going to say it every week. This is... Danny just needs to say, we're not trading these dudes. Do not put them in trade rumors. Well, they're not trading Tatum.

I don't think they would even trade. I don't think they want Harden. Oh, they definitely don't. I'm saying they need to just come out and say, these are our two guys. We're bit. These are our two guys for the rest of the decade.

We want to build around them. They're really special. They love playing with each other. The two of them together, um, is an asset that we just will keep for the rest of the decade. Do not put them in trade rumors anymore. We are keeping them.

That's it. End of story. I wish they would come out and say that. So I'm going to say that for them. I think Boston's been fun to watch. The weird kind of mix of the different guys off the bench, you never know what you're going to get. And then Marcus, who has just been absolutely atrocious offensively to the point that it's kind of compelling.

I don't know how... I didn't expect this. He's compellingly awful offensively. He's just awful. And I don't know if it's a funk or if it's like an actor who's trying out a mustache and a weird accent for a movie

and it's just like he's playing a part. He's Ed Norton in Motherless sons or motherless Brooklyn. I disagree with 70% of the decisions he makes every game offensively over and over again. I'm like, why, why are you shooting? Why didn't you do that? Why'd you drive to the basket on that? What was that? Why are you standing over there? He's driving me crazy this year. love mark how about how about the ryu hachimura play where he basically and no one's ever been able to do this as well as smart as physically like he is a walking ejector seat like goldfinger where he can just collide in air and then he projectiles himself backwards yeah and he initiated all that shit with hachimura and then he looked at him like it was his fault.

Like that's, that's one of those. It's not a lie. If you believe it, things where he's selling the flop so mad, he was still talking shit to Rio. Hachimura's looking at me like, dude,

what are you talking about? What is going on here? Um, but they're fun. I would have Denver six. Cause I think Denver's in a, still me trying to figure out they're not going to be a 500 team. Okay.

They're not going to be a 500 team. Um, not going to be a 500 team and Jokic has been that much fun but I I think the Boston part of it as they pieced it together and there's been a lot of complaints about them and you'll go are they really that good the number one seed in the east right now so it's still early it's still weird the blowout thing is a real problem and I don't know who you've talked to about this one but I'm going to guess you're going to go ahead and agree because I've tried to figure it out on my podcast. Like the number of blowouts that we've had are ridiculous. The times we've had teams up by 30, the percentages are way off. There'll be nights where if I'm on something and I go, hey, tonight's going to be like a second half night. And then I'll look like, all right,

where do I need to go? And I go, I don't think I need to go anywhere right now. Like, I'm just going to watch a different game because this team's already up 30 and they already have all the backups in. The energy when you're down 10 to 15 and having no one in the arena, teams will tell you, the guys that are in there, they'll say you have no idea how bad it is

and you'll see teams just go, ah, fuck it. And there's still really good teams experimenting with stuff. So I think there's a lot of stuff happening in the league where I don't know how much of this is going to hold up, or maybe we're just going to have another weird result year, but in the building, the lack of any, any momentum, any vibe whatsoever is, is one of not the main, but I would say one of the factors here with some of these blowouts we're seeing every night, because sometimes the schedule is pretty disappointing. I think it's atmosphere related.

And also with some of these road teams where they're stuck in a hotel for two days and they can't see anything. I think, I just think it's a, it's a skewed year. I don't know what to make of it. Um, on Marcus,

he's, his stats are very similar to what they were last year, but it's, he's a hundred times more frustrating. And I don't know whether it's like how I get frustrated by my son at age 13, where we're just, both my wife and I are in this phase now.

We're just everything he does. We're annoyed by that might be the case. That might be the case with Marcus where it's just like, I've just been watching him for too long, but, um, it's, it's, I just don watching him for too long, but, um, it's, it's, I just don't think he's a real point guard. I think he's an awesome guy to have on my team, but when he's in this, all right, now Kemba's out, I'm going to run the show. It's like, no,

like he, he doesn't, he's missing basic point guard skills that are really frustrating for me. Anyway, uh, I will support Marcus to the bitter end. But that didn't sound like frustrating. He's frustrating sometimes. I'm allowed to be frustrated by somebody I love. I love that your son, you know what? He gives off heavy Marcus Smart vibes. This is amazing. My son is 100% Marcus Smart-ish.

He flops. He thanks for calls. He yells at the refs. Yeah, he's crazy. All right. So we didn't get to the last thing we want to do. So we'll just do that the next time. We're at the two-hour mark.

We got to go. No problem. Brian Rosillo. Great to see you as always. You can listen to him on his podcast, the Brian Rosillo Podcast. Football is going full steam. And you can hear that.

By the way, worst college football season ever, right? Number one worst ever? Wasn't great. D minus? You know, look, to me, it's a B they were ever able to pull this off. But, you know, I want to start doing this now where every time a team wins a championship, I'm just going to tweet, best ever? Because we can't help like bama like a year after lsu did what they did and this is going to sound like because i like lsu uh yeah bama was really impressive this year this was

not the greatest team in the history of college football it wasn't even as impressive as what lsu did last year it wasn't so but if you want to start to do the, hey, this is the toughest NBA championship to win ever because of all these outside things that were going on. Yes, it was shit, but like, who's your schedule? Who's your schedule? And so there you go.

Alabama was terrific. And I'm not surprised they blew out Ohio State. All right, before we go, we said at the top, we were taping this during the Board of Governors thing. So as we suspected, they changed some protocol stuff.

This is what Adrian Rodgers-Naskery tweeted. Among protocol changes now agreed upon, NBA players can no longer interact with non-team guests at road hotels, sources tell ESPN. Players were allowed to have guests in room, but that's no longer the case. More changes. Just another tweet at home players and team staff must remain at residence except to attend team related activities at facility arena exercise outside performance, central activities, or the occurrence of extraordinary circumstances.

And then he says on road players and staff can't leave hotel except for team activities or emergencies. No more list of approved restaurants. For minimum of next two weeks, pregame meetings and locker rooms are limited to 10 minutes with masks on. All other meetings with players and team staff must be on the court or a larger space that allows for six feet of social distancing. And then any player regularly visits the inside the home of a team staff member for professional purposes must undergo COVID testing twice per week and then increased mask wearing for players in games except for cooled down chairs arranged at least 12 feet from bench, six feet apart.

Basically all the stuff we predicted. I think they were too lax the first three weeks of the season and now they're trying to scramble. And I do think if people break some of these rules, I think they're going to have to lay the smack down with fines and stuff. I think this is going to be a much more aggressive approach. I think they put it in the players' hands a little too much. What's your take just hearing all that?

Yeah, they're going to try here, but you're right. There's probably going to be somebody who's made an example of here um and they're gonna make a big-time example of it the way that nfl did with with the raiders and gruden so that would be my guess um because going back to the top of yeah like harden was fine 50 grand but i mean he didn't care you know he doesn't care about that so we'll we'll see what happens here all right there go. We're so good to see you as always. Thanks, man. We saw. On the wayside On the front side of the river

I'm saying I don't have to ever