The Bill Simmons Podcast - LeBron's Odds, Dallas's Doncic Heist, and Kawhi to Boston Talk | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 381)

Episode Date: June 22, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to talk about Sal's World Cup bets, the odds on LeBron's next team, and gearing up for legalized gambling (3:48). Then Bill is joined by Jonathan Tjarks to talk about the 2018 NBA draft, including the Mavericks' trade to get Luka Doncic, an unfortunate landing spot for Mo Bamba, and an interesting Phoenix Suns roster (27:55). Finally, Bill calls up his dad to talk about Celtics first-round draft pick Robert Williams, the Red Sox, and why Kawhi Leonard would be bad for the Celtics (55:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. I've told you all week, having a high sports IQ is important. I mean, look at the NBA lottery last night. What the heck was Phoenix doing trading that Miami 2021 pick? You need a high IQ in whatever you're doing, except for one thing when it comes to hiring. All you have to do in that case is use ZipRecruiter. Their powerful technology scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience for your job. 80% of employers will post on ZipRecruiter

to get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. My listeners can try for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BSZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. If you missed the ringer.com last night, we did a live NBA draft show on Twitter. We had like 13, 14 people in there, including myself. And in real time, we watched the first 27 picks of the draft. There's some really funny moments in there, including when we found out Donchich was getting

traded to Dallas and our Mavs fans went nuts. And when all of a sudden the Sixers were trading bridges and Grayson Allen getting taken by Utah and me being angry about it, but then being angry at Grayson Allen. And I went through the gamut of emotions because I thought he was going to the Celtics. Then somebody good fell to the Celtics. We talked about all that. It was good. I thought it was the best one we've done of all those live shows. We're really starting to figure out that format. It's really fun to do the second screen and it seemed like people enjoyed it. So check that out as well as a bunch of draft content that we had today. We had columns, our copy chief, the chief, Craig Gaines, wrote a piece about grading or ranking Woj's

passive aggressive, not actually tweeting out the pick, but kind of sort of tweeting it out. He did that. We have winners and losers. Mark Titus is writing today. Brian Curtis wrote about the Woj effect in the draft, all kinds of stuff on there. So check all that out on the ringer.com. A couple podcast things for me. The last episode of the Dave Chang show that we did together for the pre-opening diaries, episode five, that went up this week. It was the final episode. We talked about criticism and food critics and reviews and what it's like after a restaurant comes out, after those first few months.

What do you do when a critic comes into the restaurant? How do you handle a critic who might have an agenda? A whole bunch of stuff. Really interesting. And we wrapped that up. That is a really good podcast. You should check that out. And also the rewatchables.

Sean Fantasy and I did Forrest Gump. It is up. And let's just say nobody has ever talked about Forrest Gump's sex life more on a podcast than Sean Fantasy and I did on this one. But we really had fun. We really think this is an underrated movie. Next week on the rewatchables, The Devil Wears Prada.

Oh yeah. You could make a case. One of the best movies of the 21st century. We might make that case next week. It's going to be me, Juliette Lipman and Amanda Dobbins. So be ready for that one. And then also we're going to talk about this with Cousin Sal in a second,

but I am going to host Against All Odds for him next week. So be ready for that. Coming up, we're going to talk to Cousin Sal. We're going to talk to Jonathan Sharks about the NBA draft. And we're going to talk to my dad, who is very upset that the Celtics

might trade for Kawhi Leonard. He does not want this to happen. He's in the minority here, but it's funny to hear him talk about it. He's going to talk about that, the draft, the Red Sox, all this stuff. But first, Pearl Jam. All right, it is Friday morning, West Coast time. Cousin Sal is on the line. Cuz, summertime is here. There's nothing left to gamble on.

You have a gambling podcast against all odds, which I'm going to be guest hosting on Tuesday because you're away. What do we do all summer? What do we look at? What do we look at? What do we care about? Well, I want to tell you, if I seem distracted, it's because I have a lot of money on Nigeria or the tie over Iceland.

And so by the time anyone listens to this, you can almost count, guarantee a 1-0 Iceland win. All right, so that's one thing we're doing is World Cup betting. So you're doing this. You know nothing about soccer. You don't follow it at all. I don't know it. I am following the trends.

I'll say this. There's been three games in a row that have ended. The first half has ended 0-0, although no game. This is shocking to me. No game has ended 0-0 yet. Really? So that's what I'm doing. We're just following the trends

and trying to go under two and a half goals or whatever. And it hasn't been working out so great, but we'll keep plugging away. I threw away my token bet. I did Columbia as the long shot bet to win the World Cup. Oh, yeah. Got all excited. I was actually excited to have a team.

I was like, oh, this is cool. America's not in it. Columbia, the game starts. Guy gets a red card in the box. Three minutes into the game and a penalty kick, which they score on. They're down 1-0 playing with 10 men. That was my World Cup experience.

That's it, right? Oh, okay. So now they're out of the World Cup. So now they need America. It's that way. Well, it, right? Oh, okay. So now they're out of the world cup. So now they need a miracle. It's quick like that. Yeah. It is, uh, it is fun to have the games on when they're coming on though. I don't mind the Russia time there.

You always miss the one game that's on in the middle of the night on the West coast, but the other ones are coming on at good times. I forgot who described it this way, but they said that you both can't watch and can't not watch the World Cup. You have to have it on. There's something very pleasant about it. It's hard to follow. Not a ton of scoring, obviously, but yeah, you have to have it on.

And look, we've said this many times. If there's nothing going on, bet a sport. It'll make it more interesting. Bet soccer. And I feel this way about like the Patriots. If you don't like what's going on in the state of the game of football, bet the Patriots. If you don't like what the Warriors are doing to basketball, bet the Warriors. It makes everything more, uh,

more entertaining and you could stomach it all. Well, just don't bet what we're betting on because we had a bad run, but we're going to talk about it. We, we, I think we fixed, we fixed the momentum swing, but we're going to talk about it. We, we, I think we fixed, we fixed the momentum swing, but we, we somehow, we had the warriors and calves to make the finals. I bet we made nine months ago and they made the finals,

but I somehow lost money. And I'm still not sure how that happened. Then I had the warriors in five, a perfect hedge opportunity between at halftime, a game three, I think they were down six. And of course, I did nothing. And then they swept.

So I lost on that. But the one good thing, even though all the bleeding we had in the NBA playoffs, I had talked to enough people because I was at the whole finals that it really became clear to me that LeBron was either going to the Lakers or staying with the Cavs. And I think he's going to the Lakers, but if he wasn't going to the Lakers, there was like an outside chance he might go to the Cavs. So I texted you,

we talked about it at the time we talked about it, the Lakers were plus two. Nigeria scored. Just so we need to keep people updated. Nigeria up one, nothing. Beautiful. Way to go,

Nigeria. Keep going. Beautiful. Way to go, Nigeria. Keep going, sorry. So the Lakers plus 250, and the Cavs were 8-1. And then there was a whole bunch of other teams there. Now, I think two weeks later, so we jumped on that. We did it so that we would win either way. Two weeks later, Lakers minus 400, Cavs plus 250. Brian Windhorst on TV this week, who's followed LeBron his whole career,

said it's either Cleveland or the Lakers. Everyone else is out. So I'm waiting to see how we're going to screw this up. It doesn't feel like we're going to screw this up. It's amazing. We have been wrong. Let's preface it by saying we have been wrong with LeBron's destination. I think we bet on his, like, when he was nine years old

when he was deciding what summer camp to go to. And we screwed that up. And we've been wrong ever since. And yeah, the fact that Wittenhurst, that he narrows it down to the very two teams we have, we're being set up, Bill. There's no other way around it. We're being set up here. He's a sixer.

Yeah, last second. My favorite part of this is I text you and we decide to just cut out house. We don't put him on the text. No, don't feel bad about it. He deserves it. I do. He deserves it. He put his stink on our bets all year.

I want to announce I'm breaking up with Joe House as a gambling partner. Oh, no. Yeah. You know what? I was having a great time gambling until Joe House entered my life with these three-man bets we did. And he's out. I fired him as a gambling partner.

We cut him out. Terrible. We're going to win Cavs or Lakers and House doesn't get to participate in it. He just gets to watch us go to the bank and cash in our bets. Well, we're going to have to pay for his buffet or something. I feel just too miserable if we were to win this. But he'll get the last laugh

because LeBron will go to the Clippers or something. That would be... Can you imagine last second? It's like, I've changed my mind. I want to play with Chris Paul and James Harden in Houston. It's like, what? But yeah, so minus 400 and everyone in the league seems to feel like this

has been a foregone conclusion for a couple months. And then, so you think, yeah, and not only everyone in the league, but Guillermo of Jimmy Kimmel Live fame somehow knows, like, the superintendent. That's the biggest upset of anything, that Guillermo knows the superintendent of any school, but he heard that LeBron approached the superintendent asking about the private school for his kids here in L.A. Yes. Yeah, it's all looking really good.

So one of the schools he looked at, that we know for a fact he looked at, is a school that my daughter is looking at. And then I did some research, and my daughter is heading into the eighth grade. And so is LeBron jr. And I was thinking, this sounds like a Fox drama where they end up at the same school and both dads tell them, you can't, you can't like that other kid. And then they somehow getting involved. They're sneaking around.

They don't want us to find out. I wasn't this a plot for a Fox. Remember that movie with that, that show with Ron silver or the, the, it was the porn producer and the, and the district attorney. Remember that movie with that, that show with Ron Silver? It was the porn producer and the, and the district attorney. Remember that show? The guy that OJ killed?

Who's Ron Silver? I don't know. You don't remember that? The 2004 playoffs and Ron Silver's the porn guy and he's screaming, his father is the district attorney. Oh, I remember that line. Yeah. So then maybe,

maybe somebody will write a drama about my daughter having feelings for LeBron Jr. If it's nothing else, it'll lead to potentially the greatest parent corner of all time. Oh, my God. That could be a multi-part parent corner. Oh, my God. That'd be the best. Speaking of parent corner, I am hosting Against All Odds next week because you're going to New York. And at the time we are taping Against All Odds, you're going to be at SpongeBob the Musical.

I had to check it out. What am I to do? I'm a 47-year-old man. Is Lin-Manuel Miranda still in this or did he leave? He left the cast. SpongeBob? I don't think he was ever in that. Wasn't that Hamilton?

I don't know. Does he do all of them? He's been on this on the slide, this guy's SpongeBob the Musical. I'm very excited. I hope you can get the nuances of the trifecta. I don't know which ones I'm going to make available to you, but everyone's very excited about this. You're taking over.

What are you going to talk about? Baseball? I think the funniest part will be me not knowing who's talking the entire time and continuing throwing it to the wrong people, getting people confused. I want to talk, I really think this has been the year that you and House and Harry

specifically have really gotten me more interested in golf and specifically the betting of golf. I really enjoyed draft Kings last week. I did a draft Kings team for the U S open that I, I painstakingly went over with house and ended up finishing like in the top seven, but I kind of get it now.

I understand golf. I understand the appeal of the betting and looking at who made the last 10. Oh, this guy made 10 of the last 10 cuts and you finished fourth last week. It is like once you kind of go down the rabbit hole, you can't stop. It's pretty good.

Let me tell you, it's a great live event to bet too. Like Brother Bri went to his first tournament ever and it was the US Open. It was like, you know, like people who like fishing and you're like, God, yeah, fishing's all right, but it's boring. And you're at, God, yeah, fishing's all right, but it's so it's boring. And you're at the mercy of whoever's manning the boat, you know, like this is like fishing. It's got the calmness of fishing, but you could bet on every hole.

You could bet if Tiger's going to hit the fairway on his first shot or things like that. It's just it's just spectacular. It's a very, very underrated gambling event. Do you think, by the way, we missed last week, Dustin Johnson was, I think, minus 50 after the second round to win the U.S. Open, then the field was plus 130 with how hard that course was. We just left that one sitting there. That was a mistake. The course was too hard.

We should have known. I think that no one would end up under par was 25 to 1 or something crazy like that but yeah you threw that to us you texted that bet to us before the tournament I know I know I wish we could make a book of all the big money odds that we passed on

through text have you started like really fundamentally thinking about how life is going to be different when gambling becomes legal? Because I feel like they're going to make it legal, but I think the live betting is going to take a long time. I think it'll be phases. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's going to be the key, right? When they put all those things in stadiums. And so now if you get hit by a foul ball, it's not because you're looking at your phone. It's because you're betting on the next at-bat if the guy's going to lay down a sacrifice punt. But ball, it's not because you're looking at your phone. It's because you're, you're betting on the, you know, the next that bad, if the guy's going to lay down a sacrifice punt. But yeah, I, that, that's what I want when that's the world I want to say. I think that's like five or six years from now. I would even say 10 years. I, Oh really? I think,

cause here's the problem. I can't make 10 years. Well, but you're, you're putting a lot of pressure on whoever is actually deciding what the lines are in the moment. That has to be somebody who is really good at their jobs because the best way to exploit kind of the inefficiencies of gambling is when somebody makes a mistake. And if somebody is making a mistake in real time and you're jumping on it, I think there's too much chaos involved. So my guess is they're going to have future bets that stuff we like to bet on, like who's going to go first in the draft, who's going to win the NBA title, who's going to win this playoff series.

And then the hardcore, you know, Cowboys home for the Giants minus four, first half line, second half lines. I think it'll be in stages, but I think they'll scale it back and be super simple in the first couple of years anyway. I think they have like New York whiffed on it this year. So you won't have legalized gambling in New York in 2018. But I think every state has to take the most liberal policy of whichever state is being kindest to gamblers, right?

You would think. I don't know. Yeah, we love the crazy props. We love, will this one get a triple-double? Will this one, you know? I don't know if you're going to get that at every mom-and-pop shop in Delaware. So when people say, well, the online sports books are dead, the bookies are dead, like, well, no, I don't think so.

I think you'll always get a million props from the online sports book that you can't get anywhere else. I think bookies are great because people, A, they want to pay on credit, and B, they want to be anonymous. So I don't think they'll get hurt. In other words, there's enough to go around for everyone. It's a glorious time. We're always going to figure out how to lose.

We figured it out with the NBA draft. I texted you in-house about Luka Doncic was 15-1 to go first in the draft. They hadn't said it in a picket. Why did we do that? I was smart. It dropped down to like plus 400. We should have gone against it.

We keep writing checks, but in the memo we could write it as a smart bet. Here's the thing. Trifecta and I went 3-1 with our NBA prop bets. What did you do? What were the bets? We went both bridges over. One was over 9.5.

One was over 7.5, I think. And then we had one. Harry lost on Trey Young going over. But the one that you liked, the other one that won, was Porter. I talked about it with you, and you didn't pull the trigger on it. You said, here's what you said. You said, no one's drafting that guy in the top six.

In fact, no one drafted him in the top six. I got scared. We should have bet it, and I got scared because there were rumors about Dallas at five if they didn't trade up for Doncic. The one we really messed up on, I think rumors about Dallas at five if they didn't trade up for Doncic. The one we really messed up on, I think Doncic for a while was, oh, the over was

three and a half, wasn't it? Or no? Yeah, it was three and a half, but the over was... And then they flipped it to two and a half. Yeah. Right, right, right. That's right. That's what it was. I think that was... It's almost like football, where everybody tries

to talk themselves out of the the best three players not going somehow in order and then that's what ends up happening all the time

and it was like Doncic had the most value of anyone after the first pick there was no way he was going to fall to the fourth pick so something I remember

for next year did you guys talk about I tuned in by the way that was a lot of fun you had what was it like 15 15 fellas there yesterday so something to remember for next year. Did you guys talk about, I tuned in, by the way, that was a lot of fun. You had, what was it, like 15 fellows there yesterday. A lot of people,

a lot of young people. I felt very old. I felt like you guys, it was like a jury in Schenectady, New York, looking to decide on the death penalty for James Dolan. Yeah. That's what I was looking for. But it was good.

But did you guys discuss what happens with the cap that Donchett's wearing, the Atlanta Hawks cap? Yeah, we talked about it briefly. Yeah, every draft, somebody puts the hat on and then gets traded. Either he already knows he's about

to get traded or it happens a little bit later. The one that was really cold was Mikael Bridges. Not only did he wear the hat, not only did his family celebrate, and I think his mom works in or it happens a little bit later. The one that was really cold was Mikael Bridges. Yeah, that was bad. Not only did he wear the hat, not only did his family celebrate, and I think his mom works in HR for the Sixers, but then he was in the press conference after, and then they blindsided him.

Right, right. But I think we've been betting on the draft for a long time, and I think whoever makes these lines have, have gotten really good at them. There's, there's no inefficiencies anymore. Everybody's right around. The only one you really could have gotten a bargain on was Michael Porter. If you had like his medical info, but nobody had the medical info. That was part of the problem. Right. So how do we get the damn medical info? We need to know some of these docs. Don't we know a doctor yet to figure this out? But no, you're right.

Like Bagley was minus, Bagley's going top three, but under three and a half was like minus 450 or something. So yeah, you're right. They don't let you, there's no free money in the NBA draft anymore. Do you have a quick parent corner before we go? Anything going on in your life?

You think of one. Let me see. Oh, I should have thought of one ahead of time. No, we don't need to do one. I forgot to ask you about the, you went to the worst basketball game of all time. I don't know how much you can say, but Cruz versus Kimmel with basically rugby rules. And I don't think people, it kind of came and went.

I don't think people really studied what happened. They played for over an hour and a half. There was a halftime, but the total time of the game was an hour and 40 minutes. And the final score was 11 to nine playing by ones. That sounds, how many months have to pass before we do an oral history for the ringer

about just what a travesty of a sporting event this was? I think you need to do it right now while it's fresh in everybody's head but and and one thing that would be featured is when i was on the phone actually with on the phone with senator ted cruz because they went back and forth about the rules ted cruz says we have to take it back to the free throw line and jimmy's like absolutely not every possession gets taken back to the for the three-point line at the top of the key. And by like 10 minutes in, these guys were barely taking the ball back. And then Ted Cruz didn't want

a referee. It's like, how are you not going to have a referee? We had Bob Delaney. You know Bob Delaney. We had a pro set up. And he's like, no, no referee. He's like, well, what if the ball goes out on? He's like, we want chain referee. He's like, well, what if the ball goes out on, he's like, we want chain link fence, one-on-one rules, you know, pick up games. So I get on the phone with

him and finally Bob Delaney proves to him that he's going to be impartial. And I say to Ted Cruz, because you could actually bet on this game, Simon, and you didn't, but I did. Jimmy opened up as a plus 160 underdog. So I said, all right, we're maxing out on that. Of course, that didn't work out. But I said to Senator Cruz at the end of the call, I said, hey, don't want this to be a complete disaster, because I had confidence in my cousin. I said, why don't you bet on Jimmy Kimmel,

and then you could save face a little? And he said, what do I look like to you, Pete Rose? He said that to you? I didn't have an answer for that. He kind of does look like Pete Rose, but I don't know what to say to him. It looks like Pete Rose and Grayson Allen had a baby. He really does. I'm amazed that you bet on Jimmy.

That is the ultimate homer. That's like you betting on the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl. I thought the odds were actually too skewed. I actually thought Cruz was a great bet. I never would have done it. I wouldn't have wanted to root for Ted Cruz for anything. But yeah, Jimmy doesn't play basketball.

I've never seen him play basketball ever. I know, but I just thought good would prevail over evil. I just figured, here's what I thought. Jimmy's very confident. You know our cousin. He's very, very confident. Yeah, he is. If you were to go up to him right now and say, Hey, uh, Mitt, Mitt Romney wants to challenge

you to, uh, uh, stone skimming contest across the great salt Lake. Uh, and he would say, Oh, I'll kill him. Right. And you're like, Oh, really? When was the last time you skimmed stones across the lake? I was probably like eight or nine years old. Have you ever seen Mitt Romney? No, no, but I'll kill. I know I'll kill him. And you'd buy it. I was probably like eight or nine years old. Have you ever seen Mitt Romney? No, no, but I'll kill. I know I'll kill him. And you buy it. I guess there's no reason to be negative about it.

So you might as well be like, all right. Yeah. Yeah. Of course you're going to beat Mitt Romney and skimming stones and Ted Cruz and basketball. He should have played. He should have played him in Scrabble.

Like if it was like Ted Cruz, we're playing online Scrabble. Everybody can watch it. And I'm going to house you. I would have been all in on Kimmel because I've seen him play Scrabble. Right. That's what he said afterwards. You don't just start playing basketball when you haven't played for 30 years.

I thought that was nuts. And one-on-one is brutal. And the way they played, to their credit or whatever, it was almost, I don't know what the video footage shows, but it was impossible to get a shot off. It really was. They were like, Ted Cruz is hooking his left arm while Jimmy did that sky hook with the right arm and then would shove him out of frame right as he was like, they knew each other's every move right away. But which is a more impressive stat to you?

0 for your first 36 shots or 9 for 103 overall? That's what Kimmel finished? 9 for 103? Yeah. 9 for 103. I mean, he would have been better off just firing threes. He would have made like 12 of them, right? I know. Even with space? First of all, I'm very upset I wasn't consulted. I would have

at least helped with the strategy. Second of all, it didn't look like either guy was in shape, so whoever was in better shape was going to get to every rebound. But neither, both of them looked exhausted. And Jimmy actually got hurt. So he lost to Ted Cruz and he got injured. Other than that, a success, I thought.

You would have liked, we did raise money for charity. Oh yeah, we raised money. That's true. True. Ralph Sampson was Jimmy's coach. Legendary. Ralph Sampson. I feel like he's going to pump up the crowd. It's going to be great. He comes out and then after like 20 minutes,

I walk up to him like, hey, you got to you have to say something to Jimmy. You have to help him here. And he's like, I'm sorry. This is an uncoachable game. It's great. Hope you enjoyed the free first class ticket out

it's a coachable game Gus Johnson there was a sadness in his eyes around the one and a half hour mark last but before we go

World Cup odds Brazil plus 375 Spain plus 450 Belgium plus 700 Germany 7-1 France plus 750 England 12-1 which is crazy

Croatia 14-1, France plus 750, England 12-1, which is crazy. Croatia, 14-1. I watched that entire game on my flight home from Boston yesterday. I think Croatia's really good. Those odds aren't fantastic, but I like the 14-1. And Mexico is 28-1, was the only other one I noticed. There was something. I'm not going to pretend. No, I'm just going to bet the under in every single game.

You do you. But I will say Brazil, that was the bad beat of a lifetime. Brazil, if you had Brazil minus one and a half, they scored in the 91st minute and the 97th minute. First of all, 97th minute?

What, did somebody get paralyzed on the field? How do you have 97 minute games? I know. I've been watching soccer since, oh, geez, 2016. I've never seen seven minutes added to a game. But, yeah, Brazil ends up winning 2-0. So, yeah, there's some gems out there. Look for them.

Well, I don't have a parent corner either. So I'm hosting Against All Odds on Tuesday with the trifecta. I'm going to get their names confused. It's going to be great. And we're also, we're not going to call you, right? I'm just guessing. You can call if you want.

We'll figure that out. We'll figure it all out. I'm going to load you up. Don't worry. I'm going to make a nice outline for you with a nice Riverboat Casino prop and everything. I don't want you to miss act two

of SpongeBob the Musical. You son of a bitch. I don't want you to miss it. I know you might miss, there might be a major plot twist or something. I'm the only one who wants me to miss it. All right. Cuz we'll talk to you soon.

Good job by you. All right. Good job by you. All right. Before we bring in Jonathan Jarks, let's talk about Gillette. I went to the Gillette headquarters last month and was absolutely stunned by the history,

by the amount of time that they have been making razors and how it intersects with World War I and World War II and NASA. They have a NASA contract where they help them out with a whole bunch of stuff and all the different sports they've sponsored and all that. But there's one cool section. They had all the razors they've made over the years, like by the year. And you go through and depending on how old you are, you're like, oh, there's my first razor. So whatever my first razor was in the late 80s, it was like being in a time machine. know the biggest thing I learned when I was there

was just how much time and care they put into this stuff and how they listen to their their customers and they don't feel like

there is a right way to make a razor they listen to feedback from everybody what are we doing right what are we doing wrong and they just try to make razors for them

like the Gillette 5 razor 5 bladed razor lubrication strip great gliding performance less irritations a 360 aqua grip handle And they just try to make razors for them. Like the Gillette 5 razor, five bladed razor lubrication strip, great gliding performance, less irritations, a 360 AquaGrip handle. They just, that's what comes out of all the research they do. They offer a variety of shaving products for every guy,

regardless of his personal style, skin needs or budget. Whether you want three blades or five, the Gillette 3 and Gillette 5 razors have you covered. All under $10, high performance at a low price. Get Gillette performance delivered to your door and find Gillette 5 at GilletteOnDemand.com. Fresh from South Boston. Subscribe today. All right. Jonathan Sharks is here from The Ringer. We were together last night. We did a live draft party on Twitter. That was really fun. You were writing draft grades somehow and piping in occasionally. I always have my takes.

You're a low usage rate. I gotta sneak them in. You're a low usage rate though because you were writing too. So I'm going to give you a little more of a- So then I was like 35 feet away. I'll get a shot at it real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We can throw a take out. Every once in a while, you were spaced in the floor every once in a while we're finding you in the corner. So I had some time to think about it. A lot happened last night for what seems in retrospect

to be not an action-packed draft, but I do feel like it was because we didn't know where Donchich was going. We didn't know for sure if the Kings were going to take Bagley. But I just look at the big winners. I like that Mavs trade. Oh, my God. When I woke up this morning, I was like, Jesus. Yeah.

They might have gotten... I mean, if the goal is to get a superstar in the draft, which you and I both think he could be a superstar, the price they paid, basically, they moved up two spots and they gave up some protected first rounder that really can't haunt them for two years. I thought that was a fantastic trade. Yeah, they didn't have to give up much at all.

I think they were in a great spot because Atlanta wanted Trey Young. So they couldn't go past Orlando at six. So it was pretty much just Dallas so they could trade with. So it was just like, we want Young, let's get an extra pick, let's just do this.

And then you had Memphis right between them who could have screwed the whole thing up and pretended they wanted Trey Young. Yeah, but no one would have believed that though. Because they already had Conley. What if they just took him? Jackson would be so much better

for them than Conley. I mean, then Trey Young. But I'm saying, what if you take Trae Young and you're just like, it's almost like dangling a child over a railing. Like, I have Trae Young. You will pay my price for Trae Young right now.

I think Memphis, just do what's in front of you. Don't get too complicated. Just take the good. I don't trust Memphis to pull that off. Just take the player who's good. So one of the things, I always default to what matters the most to the Celtics. The Celtics take the player who's good. So one of the things, I always default to what matters the most to the Celtics. The Celtics have

the Kings pick next year. I look now at Memphis, if they can get Conley and Gasol and Jaron Jackson, and they have some good role players in that team, they're not going to be a train wreck if Conley and Gasol stay healthy and if Jackson can only stay on the floor for

25 minutes a game. Dallas, I think Doncic, if they sign Boogie or Capella, it sounds like now they're going to, they want to compete right away. They're going to throw money at some center. They're going to be better. They'll be better for sure.

And Phoenix is definitely going to be better. I think Sacramento is the worst team in the West. I have to look at a list of teams. That sounds right. Are we forgetting any other non-playoff teams? Lakers. They'll be better, obviously. Yeah, they'll be the worst. LeBron goes to the Lakers.

The Nuggets are still going to be good. And the Clippers, they'll be okay. Timberwolves. Like you're going down the line. The Kings. They'll be the worst team in the West for sure. Yeah, they add Bagley. They already had a bunch of forwards.

I think we both like Bagley just from a production standpoint. I think he's going to get points and rebounds, but I don't think he's necessarily going to make them better. And it just seems like Dallas, I'm trying to figure out if that pick will haunt them. I don't think they're the worst team in the West next year. They actually might lose that pick next year. It might be in like that 8-11

range, right? So here's the thing about Luka versus Bagley. It's like you start creating lineups. It's like, man, Luka just makes everybody around him better. The lineup just makes more sense. Whereas Bagley, you have to put him in the perfect lineup for it to work, which they don't have in Sacramento at all. And you're going to suffer defensively with Bagley. Not that Doncic is Paul George.

But that's why they have to sign a center. That's why the Mavs need a defensive center for sure. That's what, see, I had them right about eight hours for the draft. They did a mock draft on Twitter. I really didn't think they were going to take Mo Bamba, the Mavs, because I think- Because he's a project.

And because they can get a center. So I don't know if I've told this story in the pod, but I talked to Carlisle before game two, just on the court, shooting the shit. And I was like, so how are you feeling about the big rebuild? What's it going to take, like two, three years? He's like, we're not rebuilding. I'm like, really?

He's like, yeah, we want to be good next year. And didn't say it ironically or anything. He was just like, no, we're going to try to be good next year. And didn't say it ironically or anything. Like he was just like, no, we're going to be, we're going to try to be good next year. So I was like, okay. So I filed that away. And now you look at Donchich, who I think is going to be ready to play right away.

For sure. If they sign Capella. Man, if that happens, that would be so major. Oh my God. Capella, Matthews, Barnes, Smith, Luka, Donchich. That's a good five. Dirt coming off the bench.

One other. Hey, that's my point is that's not a bad team. It's a really 35 to 40 win team. It really rounds out perfectly. Like every like Wesley, Matthews, Harrison, Barnes are so much better in smaller roles on offense.

Yeah. And they guard the guys on defense. Luka hides on defense. You have two ball handlers, Luka and Smith. You just get a role guy and a defensive player. I mean, it fits. It all works perfectly together. And we've been making fun

of the Mavs. I think I even did this on my pod a couple days ago about how I forget who I said this to. I just didn't think Cuban had... Oh, with Jason Gallagher when we did a long-marked draft pod. I was like, does it bother you the Mavs haven't made one good move in the last six years?

This was one of the best trades of the decade, in my opinion. I'm going all in. I rarely do this, but I just think there's certain times, man, I felt this way about Durant and Oden. I felt this way about watching Minnesota pass on Curry twice.

Uh-oh, we just had a goal. Who scored? Another Nigeria goal? Another Nigeria goal. Wow. They're going nuts. I just think Doncic is going to be great. I really do. I'm all in on it. I'm happy to have this thrown in my face in 10 years. That guy,

what he did at age 18 in the league he was in, in the amount of games he played, he basically played like 90 games in front of crazy crowds and really competitive situations and was good and is a creator and can play three positions i think i just like him because like you look at like skill set and two like i did a big article last year in bogdan bogdanovich yeah he the year before he was the leading scorer in your league he comes to states he had a good year as a rookie. He did. He had a good year.

He was a weird team. I mean, he's bigger. He shoots it. So he'll be able to compete at an NBA floor right away and make players better. Just his skill set right now just translates immediately. I like the way he handles himself too. I guess the fear would be you're coming in and now you're expected to be the savior of the match. And the nice thing is they have Smith there.

The two things, they have Dennis Smith to share that load and they have Dirk as a face to franchise. Dirk can be like, Luca, here's how you do this. Hit uptown like once a week, maybe twice. Right, right, right. Don't go on the full Parsons. Like you got to pull it back

a little bit. Yeah. Dirk's like, look, some of these Dallas ladies, you got to be careful. Yeah, yeah. Don't go in that part of town. It'll be great.

What about Smith and Doncic playing together? I think it works fine because the thing about it is in Rick's system, you always have two point guards. So last year, Dennis played with JJ Barea, Yogi Ferrell, or Devin Harris all season. So now you're placing those guys with Luka Donchich.

It's like the same role, but now he's 6'8", 230, and he shoots threes. This feels like a good farewell year for Dirk if he wants to do it that way. I was talking to someone today like- Like a torch pass. Dirk is going to shoot forever. He's always valuable in the second unit. He can play 15 minutes a game for like two or three more years. He might want to do it that way. I was talking to someone today. Like a torch pass. Dirk is going to shoot forever. He's always valuable in the second unit.

He can play 15 minutes a game for like two or three more years now. He might want to do that. He couldn't have to do anything. He just comes to the game and takes four threes. They play him 65 games. The team's actually fun to play with now. I always thought he would be the greatest version

of Sam Perkins 20 years ago. Dirk will do it, man. When Sam Perkins had that Seattle run when he put on all that weight, he had the dreads. Yeah. And they just kind of spotted him up from deep. The thing about like the Mavs second unit last year

was freaking incredible. They said starting to start has sucked, but like they had Dirk, Barea, and the X-Pals. Powell was pretty good for them too. Powell rolls really well. Yeah. And so Dirk just shoots threes. Like they don't guard anybody,

but they score so many points, it doesn't even matter. So another big thing that happened yesterday was, well, Phoenix went all in on their team, which I didn't totally understand. I mean, I did. He's been there a long time and he's a win the gm yeah yeah that's my fear of it it's you know the worst example of all time of this um or most painful example i should say is the search abaca trade that orlando made and the gm was basically like i'm getting fired anyway if this doesn't work out with bl Van Gundy with Blake Griffin is another great example. This one didn't

feel as hit or miss I'm all in, but it definitely had shades of that. Where, oh, if none of this really works to the degree it's going to work, I'm not here in three years anyway, so fuck it. I don't care about that Miami pick. I just thought that was a great pick. Well, I mean, I will say for Phoenix's

perspective, you theoretically have your stars now for Phoenix's perspective, like you theoretically have your stars now and it's like, okay, if I have Devin Booker, I need long athletic guys around him to guard for him. Now I have Josh Jackson and Mike McHale-Bridges.

Like that makes sense just from like, we have our stars, find guys who make sense around them. But the difference between McHale-Bridges and Zaire Smith isn't significant enough

to give up that Miami pick, I don't think. If you're talking about moving up from five to three- Well, I like Zaire. Zaire is great. So I'm a big Zaire guy. He went right around where we thought he was going to go.

But I think from a sleeper kind of upside potential. Oh my God. He's in there. I mean, I'm sure most of our listeners don't watch Texas Tech basketball, but just wait for this guy. I just watched him on YouTube. Just, I mean, watch those clips, people.

The dunks, the blocks. He blocks like Dwayne Wade block shots. He just destroys the ball. It's incredible. I thought that was an awesome trade. And I can't believe Brett Brown made it, who was coaching the team the whole year, was not a front office person at all.

No, like literally like in the grades, I was like, well, as you would expect, the coach GM makes a safe pick. And then I'm like, well, nevermind. Brett Brown actually is like, whoever made the call there, they're doing the right thing. That was a great.

I think that's a potentially a catastrophic trade for Phoenix because I, so you look at Miami three years from now, who's on that team, right? They don't have

a guaranteed all-star on that team three years from now. Did you hear they were shopping Winslow now? They're shopping him. They're shopping Winslow. Dragic is there. Whiteside, they'll finally be out of his contract,

I think at that point, but they just don't have, they don't have that one guy that Drogic is there. Whiteside, they'll finally be out of his contract, I think, at that point. But they just don't have that one guy that you would say, oh, he might be an all-star. So, now you're banking on either free agency. Riley might retire at some point. Right, Riley might retire or you're banking on free agency. But I think there's a lot of smart teams. I don't know if Miami has the same kind of allure that it did 10 years ago.

I think for Phoenix, though, it would have been a nice thing to have, but if you're drafting eight and one, you're thinking I have Booker eight and Jackson. That's a pretty good big three. That should be enough. They can go. On the flip side, my counter argument of that is if you think you have the nucleus of some,

something good, that Miami pick comes in handy later. If you're going to make, that's true. Whatever the version of the quiet trade is. That's your Celtics picks that you're going to use. the version of the Kawhi trade is two years from now. That's your Celtics picks that you're going to use for the plays now. Yeah. That's a good point.

Yeah. Put it this way. If the Celtics had traded the Grizzlies pick, which I think is probably a little more desirable than Miami pick, if they traded that Grizzlies pick to move up from 16 to 10 in a draft, I would have been furious. Yeah. So we'll see. But I mean, now Philly has it. That's massive. And we all thought our reaction in the room was,

this is Kawhi bait. For sure. That this is, or whoever they think they might be able to get at some point. But Kawhi is a very logical guy. I would say if I'm Philly, I'm going to do it. We have enough assets. Let's just go for it. Well, how far would you go for Kawhi?

I wouldn't give up everything. It's the most you would give up. I would give up. Would you put faults in it? If I had to. But I would try to. I try to go for it. Well, how far would you go for Kawhi? I wouldn't give up everything. It's the most he would give up. I would give up. Would you put Fultz in it? If I had to. But I would try to. I'd try to go Sarich. And maybe Zaire, maybe a pick.

And not all of that. They have so many good assets. Two of those assets. Would you do Fultz, Covington, Sarich in the Miami pick? That's a lot. I would do it. Yeah. If Kawhi's resigning, I would do it.

Yeah, you got to do it. I don't think even if he's resigning you just have to gamble because Kawhi off Simmons and Embiid would be incredible I think he might stay I don't know they shaved some cap space too

to enable them yeah that was some tricky maneuvering yeah enabled him to at least think about trying to get Paul George I mean people in the league seem to think he's going to LA

but I guess too it's like yeah Brett Brown's coach GM but they still have professionals I mean there's still plenty of guys in the front office who can do these things so they're like I guess that was a good well done yeah, Brett Brown's coach GM, but they still have professionals. I mean, there's still plenty of guys in the front office who can do these things.

So they're like, I guess that was a good, well done on Philly's part though. That's good. So then Phoenix ends up with the nucleus of Booker and Josh Jackson, who I thought the last couple of months, I watched a couple of times. I really thought he got better as the year went along. Aiton, Mikael Bridges.

I like Tyler Uless as like a third guard. I don't know. I'm just talking about pieces. TJ Warren. They have six guys for a rotation now. And I'm leaving out somebody. They just need a point guard. KOC still likes Dragan Bender.

He could be a good backup five. I like him a little bit. I wouldn't give up on him yet. And I think they have free agent money too. They got stuck with that Brandon Knight contract. That's a brutal one. They just need to get a point guard or someone, unless they trust Donchus to go point full time.

I'm not Donchus, sorry, Booker. They need a point guard of someone because they can't start Ulos, I don't think. I think he's too small, he doesn't shoot. So you, what about the Booker, Aiton, Josh Jackson as a nucleus? Could those be the three best guys on a contender? Four years from now.

Because I think Jackson on defense will be huge for them. That is like, because like Booker and Aiden have a bunch of defensive issues. Having Jackson and Bridges, I think it's just Aiden's defense. Like my prediction is the better Aiden is as a defender and a passer, the better the Suns will be.

If he becomes a great passer, great defender, they're going to be awesome. If he's average, they'll be an average team. Another thing we noticed yesterday, I think we're split on Mo Bamba and whether- But Orlando is the worst spot for him. Well, that's the thing.

Yeah. And that's the thing with these fits for the draft that so much of it depends on where you go. I think Rob Williams, the Celtics guy, I think there's probably

three teams that he could have gone to. Williams is going to be awesome in Boston. He's a great talent. But like, so Rob Williams, New Orleans,

Houston, Boston, teams that would use a five just for basically lob dunks, rim protection, and rebounds. And that's it. That's all we want. Just worry about these three things. And he goes to one of those teams and now assuming they can turn him into somewhat of a professional, I think that's a good pick. It's a fantastic pick. And I look at Bamba and it's like, he's on this team with a bunch of big dudes who can't shoot. Like who's their point guard? No point guard at all.

Nothing. A new coach just systemic losing now for the entire decade and that was the worst team he could have gone to. I think out of the 30 teams that was the worst team he could have gone to. You know what I would do if I were them? I'd try to get like Kyle Lowry or someone. I don't know if he's a good culture guy. I was thinking about Schroeder.

They need a veteran. What about Schroeder? They need a point guard. If worst case I'll take Schroeder. I need someone there like right Lowry or someone. I don't know if he's a good culture guy. I was thinking about Schroeder. They need a veteran. What about Schroeder? They need a point guard. If worst case, I'll take Schroeder. I need someone there like right now. So Atlanta wants to trade Schroeder. I was looking at the, you know, they have Terrence Ross is expiring like 10 million. They have Shelvin Max expiring like 6 million.

And they could put together that and like a conditional first. That should be able to get Schroeder for him. They could do that trade. Well, so my thing is, if you're going to take Bamba, you're doing him a disservice if he doesn't have somebody

who knows how to run a basketball team. You can't put him with third string point guards. I mean, you saw what happened to Texas this year. Like, that was what happened. They had bad guards.

How far in were you on him on a scale of 1 to 100? Like 60? 65. I thought him and Rob Williams were pretty similar as prospects. Really? But I was hiring Williams.

I think Bambo's a good starter. I think he'll be a good starting five. But to me, he was like a top 10 to 15. I wasn't huge on him like KOC was. And what'd you think about Sexton going to Cleveland? I think it's a good instant pick. Like Sexton's a guy, high floor. I'm not sure he has a high ceiling.

Like he's gonna dominate the ball, get a bunch of empty stats in Cleveland, maybe be a rookie of the year. But I'm not sure five years from now. I'd rather have SGA over him five years from now. Wow. Our staff was the most split on SGA I think of anyone. I think he's Michael Carter Williams, Alfred Payton.

I think he's in that mold. He's way smarter basketball player than them. He's one of the smartest basketball players I've watched in college in a long time. So you're comparing more to Rondo even though they're games. Yeah. Yeah. It's like in terms of basketball IQ, that man has a basketball. Dang near genius. I think we'll figure it out.

Cause you know, he's such a good athlete, but then you get to the pros. Everyone's a good athlete. SJ's not a good athlete. He's an average athlete. I thought he was. No, no, no, no. That's what Titus told me last night. No, like his first step isn't great.

He uses his length and size to get for, get spots. He plays like a 10 year vet. He has all the hesitation moves, the pump fakes, both hands, draws fouls. He's like an old school player. So I don't think anyone could succeed in the NBA unless they have that one elite skill. So what's his elite skill? His IQ? IQ passing, getting to the rim. Kentucky last year played one three-point shooter all season, and he still lived at the rim because he was so good at getting through cracks and spots. You think that works in the NBA though? With more shooting. Kentucky was literally, that was a disaster. John Calipari should be like,

that was horrible what they did to those guys last year. Well, he ruined Diallo. Diallo, Jared Vanderbilt. When you and Gabriel didn't get drafted, man, a lot of guys got their careers shredded last night from Kentucky. That was bad. So the Clippers ended up with SGA and they ended up with the Boston College. Robinson. Two more guards.

They have six guards now. I don't care about the other guards in that team. Like it's SGA and Robinson. So Austin Rivers, you just basically, you're mean to him. He'll be gone next year, right? He's one year left. I think he's an expiring. Doesn't matter. He'll be gone.

Whatever. Lou Williams is still there. He'll put up stats for my fans. Milos is still there. Milos is a passer. That's okay okay Bradley's probably gone right Beverly he's Bradley's gone Beverly's not long-term guy he's hurt long term it feels like they're poised to make another deal for somebody I would think I mean who wants all those guards though well maybe it's like a guard Tobias Harris I think I think SGA I mean Jerry West is like this is my backcourt three years

from now I'm just gonna go with it I'm Jerry West is like, this is my backcourt three years from now. I'm just going to go with it. I'm Jerry West. I would have taken Porter with one of those two. I think when you have two firsts, you got to take Porter. on a guy. His back must be just destroyed.

I don't know. I hate to say that, but how else would he fall that far? I know the smart teams were trying to trade up to that 12 to 15 range to try to get him. I mean,

Denver is a pretty smart team. He could be great there if he's healthy. I mean, that's the thing. Who knows? They said there's going to be a red shirt this year now? The Celtics were sniffing around.

Why not? At that price, that spot in the draft, do it. Because you figure as long, like Denver basically said, if we have to sit him out

for a year, we'll sit him out. But with the amount of talent he has, I think once you get out of like the top 11 or 12, for sure. Now it's just upside.

Once you're drafting Jerome Robinson, just start drafting guys who are not good. Zaire Smith, these guys that... Lonnie Walker and San Antonio. Watch out for that. That could be a really nice move for them. So you like that one? Well, and San Antonio.

Him and DeJounte Murray, that works well as a backcourt. Lonnie Walker's a good shooter. He's a smart player. I thought you were too easy of a grader. Yeah, I mean... You should go into those draft guides and be like, two people are getting an F today.

See, I look at it like... I was saying, in my family growing up, a C was an F. That was horrific. So a C is super insulting for you. For sure. B's like... A lot of B's are like, B's are terrible. Don't ever get B's. Who would get an F for you if you had given out an f oh i have to look at a list it's been my my brain's been flooded you know i mean like i gotta think about it for a second i'm

trying to think the ones you didn't like that much um you did you like the nox nicks pick it's okay he'll be okay there i mean i didn't hate it i gave like six c's i just i mean i'm brain's fried right now i can't remember you didn't love the Bamba pick yeah I didn't like that one you were lukewarm on who was the seventh pick now I'm blanking see I am too

it's just been a long night who was the seventh pick Kyle no he was six Chicago yeah Carter I didn't love that pick I think he's a good player

but I don't like that front court going forward Wendell and Laurie you don't like Wendell Carter and Laurie Mark't love that pick. I think he's a good player, but I don't like that front court going forward. Wendell and Laurie. You don't like Wendell Carter and Laurie Marks? It's just slow. I mean, I think they're very skilled, but they're just going to be slow. I want Laurie to play five some.

Now I have a true five playing 300 minutes a night. So how much five is he going to play now? The Porter thing. You know, we've seen this every so often. I remember Jared Sullinger fell to 21. The Celtics took him. Yeah, and we saw, yeah. Yeah, and they were like, this is a steal.

This guy can score. And the first year, it was like, oh, this was a steal. This is great. He was out of the league like three years later. I mean, when medical stuff happens, I mean, these are good doctors. They're not just like making this up. I remember when the Celtics looked at the Odin,

the medical stuff, and they had a doctor at the time that they didn't tell him who the player was. Oh, they would just show him the medicals and be like, all right,

here's prospect A, here's prospect B. And they showed him the Odin stuff and the guy was like, you can't take this player with any pick. He's not going to be

in the league in three years. Well, I mean that, then again, you could like, Brandon Roy, he fell that one year. That was another one. But like,

that worked out because whatever, you got like six or five years. That's a great pick. Right. So with Porter. Especially cause a good Denver team doesn't need this pick to do anything. So it's like, who cares?

Just can't take a gamble. My thing is with, with all the technology we have in 2018 and somebody who's young like that, unless like they got in a car accident and like literally fractured two vertebrae and like their spine's never the same i really find it hard to believe they can't fix some i don't know i think most injuries yes the back is just such a unique thing but he's young though i'm not a doctor unless unless it's like just degenerative or it's like this this will just get worse every year and there's no way out yeah i don't i risk. Put it this way. At 14 and you're Denver and you have a pretty loaded team anyway. So any last thoughts?

Anyone you felt bad for? Honestly, I'm still Mavs focused right now. I've been like scheming up Mavs plans. So we have three Mavs. We have you, Gallagher, and Shoemaker. And you guys were celebrating like you won the World Series or something. We were talking about like, it's been six years. The Mavs, they won the championship and they blew it up instantly.

So you didn't really get to enjoy it. And then it was like, oh, this team was really bad. And they've been just making horrible moves for six seasons, embarrassing themselves on and off the court. It's been a really rough stretch. The five-year grace period that every fan base gets after they win the title where you can't complain about your team. You used up all five years. And then you're like, all right, this sucks.

When you break your team apart, it's like, well, the team's gone. What grace period? There's none of the players there anymore. Yeah, I wonder if they would do that over again, the Tyson Chandler part. Tyson, they had to. When they lost in the first, I remember this.

I'm driving home and I hear on the radio, like the Mavs will not resign Tyson Chandler. I had to pull over the side of the road. I like smoked a cigarette. We've waited our entire career for Dirk to have a good defensive center. Like I've watched Dirk lose in the playoffs for 15 years. Cause he never plays defense. They get this guy on his lap.

They want a championship. Oh, we don't want him. Ah, whatever. I'm just like, they definitely out, out thought themselves. And the't want him. Ah, whatever. I'm just like. They definitely out-thought themselves. And the other thing is,

I was actually talking to somebody about that 2011 Mavs team. They, it kind of broke perfectly for them. They caught everybody at the perfect time.

It was the right in the dip, for sure. Like, they beat the Blazers in round one. They had that Brandon Roy. You know what's funny? That was like the toughest series in Mavs play.

Yeah, remember that? It was a great series. What was that? Game three or game four? That was like the toughest series in mass play. Yeah, remember that? It was a great series. What was that? Game three or game four? That was incredible. But Portland just didn't have the horses. They go to the next round. The Lakers just completely implode.

They're done. Yeah. But then the series after, which everybody forgets. That was so bad. Scott Brooks messed that up so bad. They should have won that for sure. They beat OKC in five. Now, Dirk, I don't remember the exact stats, but I remember Dirk went off in at least three

of those games, right? But here's the thing, the Mavs could never guard James Harden. Harden was a six man. So if he had played 35 minutes, that was an instant loss for the Mavs. And if you go back and look at the stats from that series, Westbrook is horrific.

Yeah, Maynard was better that year. He was jacking shots too much back then. Durant didn't have a great series either. And my memory is just Dirk just really schooling Durant, but knowing that, oh, Durant's going to learn from this. This will make him better. But I do think OKC left that one on the table a little bit. So the Mavs played OKC those two playoffs.

And that's when I knew James Harden was going to be amazing because he was the best player in those series. The next year he killed the Mavs, right? Killed. That's when I asked Russell if he was a Mavs player and all that stuff. But Harden was the best player. Like, this guy's incredible.

Like, this guy is just unguardable. And that's what I know. When he got to Houston, I was like best player. This guy's incredible. This guy is just unguardable. And that's what I know. When he got to Houston, I was like, this is going to be major because this guy is great. Yeah, it does feel... By the way, legitimate title. I'm not discounting it. But it really feels like they kind of stole it that year. They did. For sure. They caught Miami and they really kind of haymakered them and came back and they shot a lot of threes. They had a really smart veteran team. They're really good coach and dirt just playing really well. And all of a sudden they won the title.

I mean, that's the thing is like, they wouldn't have won the next year. No way. But with Dirk and Tyson, that had been a fun team. Maybe you want to play us here. Okay.

So it was a year too early. Yeah. LA was two years too late, but to me, like I thought they should have won in oh six. I think it's ridiculous. They didn't win. So I'll even doubt.

Yeah. You're good enough. Long enough. Eventually they were definitely the best team in oh six. I have no idea in 06. I think it's ridiculous they didn't win. So I'll even doubt. Yeah, you're good enough long enough eventually. They were definitely the best team in 06. I have no idea how Miami won. I do. So what are you going to write about all summer? Oh, man.

Luka Doncic. I'm going to pitch more. Luka. I think Mark Stein's in. I think Mark Stein, Luka's going to live in Mark Stein's house. No, I've been telling like- Adopt him.

Like Fran Fischali's like Dallas media people. Like, he'll be back at the Mavs games next year. Like all of a sudden it'll be a thing to do. Yeah. How far are you from the stadium? Like 10 minutes. So this is great for you. Oh yeah. Like last two years it's been like, oh, I can go to a game, watch Harry Barnes or I could just stay home. Like it's, you know,

I will say there's like three types of really fun young guys to have join your team. And the one is just like the good guy. Like, like, like somebody like Dennis Smith where he's like, Oh,

this guy's fun. I'm glad he's on my team. And then the second type is like the Tatum type where you're just going, Oh, this guy's fucking awesome at scoring. I can't wait to watch him get better. And I think he has a chance to be great. Donchich is like a whole other level where he can make everybody else good.

He can take all these mediocre guys and make them just play basketball differently. I really think he's going to have the ability to do that. And when we say make them good, it's just like the way his skill set intersects on the floor is naturally improves the performance of the other four players. Right.

Because look, you've got this three-point shooter who creates shots. So that means you're saying guys like Barnes. Barnes no longer is a primary ball handler. He plays off the ball, spots up, cuts. He just fits. Wesley Matthews, he just stands in corners and shoots. I cannot watch Wesley Matthews dribble and do a jumper.

But the other thing is- Cannot do that. But when somebody is as good of a passer as he is, it does kind of infect everybody else. Yeah, the ball starts moving. And he's just completely unselfish. His thought at all times is, what's our best shot? How do I get us our best shot? Where I think like, yeah, I think LeBron's a great passer.

I don't think he's like a Larry Bird. I've said this before in a pod and people are nuts, but like Bird and Magic, their goal was always to get somebody else the most awesome shot possible. And if it wasn't there, then they'd shoot. I think Doncic is going to be like that. That's the thing about him too. He's like, man, he's not going to score 25 a game. No.

No, he doesn't need to. That's not going to be his game. He'll be like, next year he'll be like 16, seven and a half and six. Like to me, like if I put Luka in the Joe Ingles role, I expect like a Joe Ingles like year from him. That's a good, I like that analogy. He's like a way better Joe Ingles. Well, Jingles is great this year. If he could just be Ingles next year from him. That's a good, I like that analogy. He's like a way better Joe Ingles. Well, Jingles is great this year.

If he gets to be Ingles next year, let's keep it somewhat, let's do that next year. We'll stick with Ingles. I think he's going to be good right away. I mean,

Ingles is great. That league that he was in was not a joke. He was not in freaking China. Anyway, congratulations. Congratulations to the Mavs fan base.

You can listen to Jonathan on the Ringer NBA show today. They're breaking down a bunch of the nerdy. We have more takes. More takes. And Rob Williams. Yeah.

Spent like two minutes on him. You need, you need Brad Stevens life coach there. That's hey man, let's talk about your life. We needed to get Brad Stevens more challenges. It's like, take this guy.

He's an unpolished Jim. He might be out of the league in two years. You can save him. You're the only one. Thank you. Let's talk about Mint Mobile. The big in wireless stands for a lot of things, big contracts, big bills, big secrets.

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Goose egg from Dr. Bill. I think I was overwhelmed by the fact that Robert Williams fell into our lap. I did tweet this morning when I got up because I remembered that I hadn't tweeted last night. Were you watching the draft? I kind of feel like you were asleep because normally you would have texted me at around pick 20 and said, wow, this Robert Williams might fall to us. I hope he falls. You didn't do it. There were no texts. I have a suspicion you were asleep.

I fell asleep after the 21st pick. All right. There you go. It's been confirmed. Breaking. Walsh tipped off that you fell asleep so from what I heard they were trying to trade into once he fell to around the 17-18 range

they started to sniff around trading up they didn't think he would be there and then they did a bunch of intel on who they thought teams might take and then actually thought wow he might actually fall to 27 and kept their fingers crossed yeah Ainge did an interview this morning,

and he basically said that they started, when they saw him slipping around the 17th, 16th, 17th, 18th, they tried to see if they could move up, but nobody was interested. And I thought the Lakers were going to take him. I mean, I thought he would be a terrific guy playing with Lonzo Ball. And I'm glad the Lakers took who they took. I mean, I like the guy the Lakers took,

but I'm not sure that that's the modern-day center anymore. He's a Michigan guy. Yeah. The GM Palenko went to Michigan, the guy who runs the Lakers now. Oh, that was part of it? I think that was, yeah. But you know, we've never had a guy like this. You and I have always talked about other teams have like Clint Capella and, you know, those really stud athletes who run the floor and block shots and never seem to get tired.

We never have that guy. We never have that guy. Now we have that guy. We should mention that he fell 15 to 17 spots lower than he should have gone because of some personality concerns, some work ethic concerns. And I think got disciplined twice last year, and people are a little concerned about him. Yeah, I understand that. But I don't think on a Brad Stevens coach team,

you need to worry about a player being motivated. Also, when you have Kyrie Irving leading the team and the makeup of the other players on the team, I think he'll be extremely excited that this is a veteran team he's going to and that it's a championship caliber team. It feels like you're reading it from the PR paraphernalia. I'm not, I'm reading it from my head. I'm excited. I'm so tired of us picking the,

look at some of the guys we've picked over the years. RJ Hunter really made it. When we took R.J. Hunter over Harrow on Louisville, you were mad for like three weeks about that. Anytime we have a pick between like 25 and 30, we make mistake after mistake. And it goes all the way back to Red Auerbach when they were all set to take Tony Parker.

Remember that draft? Oh, Chris Wallace. Yeah, Joe Forte. He wanted the North Carolina kid, and we went the North Carolina kid, and San Antonio swooped in right after us for Tony. You know, we don't have luck with that pick, with that range. Ten years ago, we were both disappointed when they didn't take DeAndre Jordan with the last pick of the first round.

Remember? Well, exactly. Yeah, he was sitting there. And he was another one who fell. He fell like 20 picks. Yeah, yeah. Similar type player. Exactly.

It is funny, though. I woke up this morning and on my Twitter feed, it was the press conference had been canceled with Robert Williams because the team has been unable to locate him. And I was like, we're off. All right. But then there was a miscommunication, but he clearly was probably enjoying being a first-round pick last night. I support it. I mean, he stayed home and had a party at his house with his family. At Buffalo Wild Wings. Wonderful thing to do. He probably ended up on Burford Street lying in the gutter somewhere.

I'm still happy to have him on my team. Well, I will say, having watched his Celtics team all year, they do throw a lot of lobs at the rim. A lot of lobs. This is the one thing that that guy loves to do is catch lobs and dunk them. But here's the other thing I really enjoy, because I have a feeling Marcus Morris,

isn't going to be on the Celtics team next year. I'm not sure that, I mean, there were rumors of him being packaged so that we can move up in the draft and that didn't happen. He only has one more year in his contract. I know, but I'm going to be on the team.

I here's my guess. I have no inside Intel on this. I haven't talked to anybody, you know, they have all these guys coming back. You complained about Marcus Morris all year. You had a love-hate relationship with him that was mostly

hate. Part of the problem with Marcus Morris is he always thinks he's the best guy on the court, which is also one of his strengths. He's so confident. He thinks he's the best guy on the court, even though he's not like you actually need that sometimes, but it's only a, only a strength when he's making a shot,

which he can continually the last 20 games in the playoffs, right. Making a shot, but he's playing 39 minutes a game or something. His playoff games. And, um, or at least in one of the rounds.

And I just, I don't see him having the kind of personality to be good, but just playing like 12 minutes a game, which is where he's heading. And I don't know if they'd want to even risk having that as a potential chemistry issue. Yeah. I disagree because he's in the,

he's in the final year of his two year contract with us or the final year of his contract. And, uh, he's kind of playing for his, for his next contract. If he becomes a problem, I think they can move him during the season.

Do you know that there's some salary cap rule that if somebody's making less than $6 million, you can trade the guy one for one for somebody who makes 175% of his contract? They can trade him for somebody that makes like 8 million bucks.

Okay. Do your thing about how, do your thing about how you. In the Morris, I don't know what he makes. Well, Morris only makes like five and a half, but the problem for them is everybody keeps throwing in them in these

Kawhi trades. And they either have these short, small contracts or these giant contracts. They have no in between contracts. So for them to be able to really make a realistic run at Kawhi, they're going to need to figure out how to get at least a semi-big contract. Well, you and I never talked about Kawhi. It's a whole different topic.

You told your Twitter followers. Yeah, you were very clear on Twitter. I don't want a guy who quit on his team, who Tony Parker, who never criticizes anybody, went out publicly and criticized. I don't want him on his team, who Tony Parker, who never criticizes anybody, went out publicly and criticized. I don't want him on my team. So I'm vetoing that trade when Danny calls me. You think that's going to be your advice?

That's my advice. That's my public stance. I think I'm in the same boat as you. I would rather keep the team they have together. And if we're going to ever push the assets into the middle of the table and go after somebody, I'd rather wait for Anthony Davis. I mean, people have such a short memory. A healthy Haywood and a healthy Irving, or even just a healthy Irving, we're in the finals. Yeah. I'm not looking to break up this team unless it's a significant upgrade

with a team character, a character-building type of asset that comes in here. And I just don't view Leonard as that guy. Well, should we talk about the real problem? Is that you would get Kawhi and Kyrie confused the entire year? It would be a disaster? Well, I can't say one of those names very well. Kawhi? That's why you call him Leonard?

Actually, when I tweeted it, I had to look it up twice to make sure I spelled it right. Yeah, sounds like a bad fit for us. That's not a good combination with me. So you're vetoing the Kawhi Leonard trade but you're okay for them to conceivably

think about Davis oh yeah that's a different story I feel the same way he's a free agent not after this year but in two years it's like two or three years

no it's two I think do you want to have 30 seconds here to talk about how Jeff Green scored 19 points in Game 7 and then didn't score 19 points in the entire Finals? Do you have any thoughts on that? Believe me, when I'm watching the Finals and I'm watching how not only is he a non-factor, he has deer in the headlight.

Look, the entire four games of the finals. And he actually played terribly against us. Until those last two games. Yeah. You know, and it's one of those funny things where, not funny to us, but when Kevin Love got hurt, I started to get worried about Jeff Green becoming a factor in a game. I would have rather seen Kevin Love out there because he couldn't play defense. Yeah. And, yeah, Jeff Green. He was terrible when we had him, and then he hurt us in one game.

The only game he played well the entire playoffs. Well, he was pretty good in the second half of game six, too. He basically played two good games in a row, which will hurt my feelings for the rest of my life because when we had him, we could not count on him at all. No, he was

typically inconsistent like he was for Cleveland. I love the Cleveland pick because it kind of tells me that even if LeBron goes back there, that pick doesn't help. I mean, that guard loves to have the ball. LeBron loves to have the ball. So it looks like LeBron's moving, don't you think? Yes, but the only thing I would say is that was somebody that everybody said Charlotte Charlotte, like Colin Sexton. So maybe you take that guy.

And if LeBron leaves, that's a nice foundation piece. But if LeBron wants to stay, maybe that's somebody you can flip for Kimball Walker. You trade Sexton and Jordan Clarkson and get Kimball Walker. You bring back Kevin love. I think he, I just don't think he has any chance to win the title with that team because even if he did that,

Boston's going to be so much better next year. Philly's going to be better. Right. They're the third best team going into the playoffs, no matter how good LeBron plays. Everyone else around him is getting better. The one part of that draft that I was not happy with was how Philadelphia swindled Phoenix.

I know. And got that first round pick that everybody is saying is unprotected. How do you throw in a first round pick unprotected? It seemed like, Charks and I just talked about it, it seemed like that GM, it was one of those, I might not be here

in three years anyway, so screw it, trades. Which are always dangerous. McDonough's brother? Yeah. I'm used to working for the Celtics. Right. It made no sense. It was a lot to give up. If the Celtics had done

the equivalent of that, I would have been really mad if they had just randomly thrown in the Kings pick to move up six spots for somebody who's... Do you think part of his thinking was that starting next year, the rules change for the draft in terms of teams tanking or having... I mean, they're going to have less odds.

If you're one of the worst teams, you don't necessarily have such good odds of getting the ping pong balls. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but the flip side of that is by 2021, high school players might be in the draft. Conceivably, that could be the first draft that has high school players in it. It might be like this crazy loaded draft.

I would never in a million years give up an unprotected Miami pick for three years from now. That was a really bad trade. Really bad trade. I like Bridges. I think he's going to be good. I just don't think the difference between Zaire Smith and Bridges was worth the pick. Well, that was also one of the saddest moments of the draft.

Fortunately, we didn't see it on TV because you probably, I don't know if you saw that they interviewed Bridges and his mom. Oh, yeah. His mom's the VP of HR for the Sixers. Yeah. I mean, how happy could they have been? And then 10 minutes later, he's not on the team anymore. Yeah.

It was awful. We're going to feel just as bad when the Celtics trade Gordon Hayward in the Kings pick for Kawhi Leonard. We're going to feel the same sense of shame and sadness. That's not happening. I could be giving up my season tickets if that happened. Wow. Unbelievable.

Really? That would be awful. That would be awful. You know, after what they did to Isaiah Thomas, I can't say that it's out of the realm of possibilities, but that would be awful. Yeah, that would be awful. And he said he's rehabbing yesterday at the facility, Gordon Hay would be awful. Yeah, that'd be awful. Danny said he's rehabbing yesterday

at the facility, Gordon Hayward. Getting ready. Alright, just quickly, a couple other things. The Tom Brady off-season soap opera, are you ignoring it? Are you reading it? Do you listen to it? Do you care?

Totally, totally, totally, 100% ignored everything. Great. Alright, that's good. I'm happy to hear that. You're still upset at the Red Sox for waiving Hanley Ramirez and then being a batter short for the last four weeks? I might have tweeted about it. Like every week it bothers me.

I don't have to repeat what I since he's left. I mean, he was the best guy hitting with runners in scoring position. How many 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, 3-1 games have they lost? It's awful. They really miss him. And, of course, they're never going to admit it.

They cut the cord way too soon. I mean, if they're worried about him getting his at-bats, look at doing something in July. They're now four games behind the Yankees in the loss column. It was weird that they didn't just bench him for a couple weeks and see how he handled it. Sure. I mean, from everything we were reading, he was a good presence in the locker room. The teammates liked him.

I don't know about the new coach, but it just seemed like a really weird move to make at a time when they were winning. Yeah. You know, they were playing really well. Good team baseball. I actually thought when they did it, I thought it made sense. But I think, well, just because you don't I think... It was in a slump,

but there's a lot of guys that are in a slump. Well, see, the problem is I got seduced by the Blake Swihart hype. And that was a mistake. Blake Swihart has looked terrible. He has no trade value. He might not be good. And we have Jackie Bradley Jr. who hasn't had a

hit since the month of April, I don't think. Hey, you're taking my son to the Fenway Park tonight. I am. I'm really looking forward to it. I understand we might have pretty good seats. It's supposed to be a nice sunny night before the rain comes in tomorrow. Wade LeBlanc versus the hottest pitcher in baseball, Stephen Wright. Should be a good one.

Well, I think your son Well I think My grandson obviously Is going to have a great time watching a knuckleball pitcher Yeah we tried to get seats behind home plate So we could see the ball move The ball moves so differently Than watching any other pitcher And the kid that's pitching for Seattle Is very good too

Should be a very good game You don't mind sitting behind the net You like the net Because you can barely see Last You don't mind sitting behind the net. You like the net because you can barely see. Last year, he and I sat behind the net. And if you didn't mention it to me, I wouldn't have even noticed. It's a very thin. I mean, obviously, it's a strong net, but you barely notice it.

I went to an Indians game last month and we sat behind the visitors' dugout and the net went all the way past the dugout. It kind of took me out of the game. I was having trouble getting used to it. One of the fun parts of sitting in those seats is you have a chance to get a foul ball. I totally understand why they did it. I'm not criticizing

that. It just was different. It was really just a different experience. I had understand why they did it. I'm not criticizing that. It was just different. It was really just a different experience. I had no chance of getting a foul ball in these seats that 10 years ago. You never get anyone anyway. They've always had nets. I was just saying the experience

of being behind the dugout and having no chance at a foul ball was just bizarre after four and a half decades of going to games. And how many foul balls have you caught? I've caught zero. And I remember two that I was one seat away from one at Yankee stadium. And then,

um, one with the J bug in the pouring rain at, uh, 20 years ago near the third best side. But, um, but yeah, that the net,

it does take a little time to get used to. But five years from now, nobody will even be thinking about it. Yeah, well, even the Red Sox, I mean, Ben and I went to the game last year behind the dugout, and the net was in front of us. But now they've extended the net

even further down first and third baselines, which I think is a smart idea. Can I give you some advice? Don't get him the giant soda. Okay. Don't get him the big, big souvenir giant cup because you might as well just inject cocaine right into his elbow. Well, we might have noticed it last night.

You weren't here, obviously, but we all went to Cabot's, which is a very- Yeah, my favorite restaurant in America. You talked about it in your podcast once. And Ben had a very large raspberry lime Ricky. Oh, how'd that go for him? Before he had his banana split. Oh, no. That was the size of two of his heads.

And he was rolling. And Brian drove all the way back from Wellfleet. Yeah, my cousin. So Ben was in rare form. So I'm going to be careful what he eats tonight. Yeah, if you want him to go nine innings. But yeah, take a picture and put it on your Twitter. Dr. Bill 1947.

I think you're like 12,000 followers away from Joe House. That was your goal. That was my goal. I don't really know how to take a picture and put it on Twitter. You're talking about a new technological advance. I haven't quite gotten the hang of it. Maybe I'll send you some instructions. All right.

Congratulations on Rob Williams. Have fun tonight. All right. Thanks. Thanks so. Have fun tonight. All right. Thanks. Thanks so much to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to check them out at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Gillette. As I told you, they're there for you.

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Against all odds, I'm guest hosting that one and the Dave Chang Show. Last episode of the Pre-Opening Diaries. I wonder if he'll ever invite me out again. We'll see. Enjoy the weekend. Back on Monday with more. Until then. I don't have a few years with him

on the wayside on the blue side never I don't have a few years