The Bill Simmons Podcast - Luka vs Larry, No CFB, Another "Next Tiger," and Dame vs. PG With Ryen Russillo 

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the increasingly grim outlook for college football in 2020 (2:20) and Collin Morikawa winning the PGA championship (18:10). They also discuss the excellent play of Luka Doncic, the red-hot Phoenix Suns, the unlucky 76ers, the Pelicans' breakdown, the Trail Blazers, Damian Lillard’s comments toward Paul George and Patrick Beverley, and more (35:32). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ringer Podcast Network for a second. We have two new podcasts launching this week. One is called 10 Questions with Kyle Brandt. You might've seen a couple pieces of that leak where he interviewed Aaron Rodgers and he interviewed the Honey Badger. That's launching this week. Keep an eye out for it. Subscribe now. Subscribe now to Sound Only with Micah Peters and Justin Charity.

That is another podcast we're launching. Millennials, pop culture, music, all kinds of things. Three other pods that we launched pretty recently. R2C2 with CeCe Sabathia and Ryan Rucco. They were on this podcast recently. So is Bakari Sellers. He has his own podcast.

He's twice a week. And then on the Ringer NBA show, it is going to be the second show for these guys, Raja Bell and Logan Murdoch. They're going to be there every Monday from now on. And that's a really good podcast. Check all of those out. Coming up, Russel and I are going to hit some basketball and some other things. By the way,

Newbery Watchables coming Monday night, Last of the Mohicans. You have one day to watch it before we actually do it. Stay alive. All right, Russel coming up first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Russillo is here. I'm super excited for this Sunday Night Podcast. Sports felt like it was really back in full swing. We had basketball, we had hockey, we had an awesome PGA Championship. And then about an hour before we start this, you text me and you go, hey, we should talk about college football. This season's probably going to be done. So it's not to start the pod with a wah, wah,

but take the floor. 90 seconds on college football probably being done here. 90 seconds. All right. Well, it feels like in a week where you had the Big Ten release their schedule and there was at least some planning and we already knew what the conference scheduling was going to be. And some of it was all conference. And then some of the conferences are going with plus one. It just seems like it's impossible now.

They're going to pull this off, at least for the fall. So I don't know by the time this comes out if we're going to have a Big Ten announcement. They're certainly leading the rumor mill on punting on the fall and then maybe trying for the spring. And people can bring up a bunch of reasons that there are problems with the spring. I understand all of those. But I think the biggest thing is it comes back to is just everybody looks at basketball, Bill, and goes, well, look what they've done. And as much as I love basketball, you love basketball. I just don't know that it's super realistic to compare the things because none of this is apples to apples even baseball baseball's 30 teams trying to play 60 games with 30 players on each roster to start and games every day

traveling in a normal way and we realize that hasn't gone off to a great start now if you look at college football it's like 120 teams where geographically we know the beliefs and what the coronavirus really is, is, is all over the place, depending on what state you're from. So then when you think about the majority of all these states are represented, um, and all these different beliefs and, you know, I, I don't blame the conferences for trying to think that this could work out and not canceling everything a couple months ago. Like I've never had a problem with anybody trying to be optimistic about it, but this has been far worse than people would think now that we're in August. And now it's coming down to these dates of,

can we really have students come back, athletes come back with a regular student body and think we're actually going to be able to pull this off? And you also, and the final point here, is you've had so many schools spend like drunken sailors in this endless flow of TV money, whether it's facilities, staff, administrators of schools, and the buyout market that I've talked about at length on my pod where the buyout numbers, how much schools are paying buyouts or contracts that they just want to move on from going, whatever, we're just going to make 50 million in our TV revenue moving forward. That money's all going to be gone. And so for all the powerful programs that have enough money, have enough donors that can get

through this, there's a lot of programs that can't get through this. And there was one non power five that I've read about that said, we don't even have the money to do the testing. And that's why you had the Mac kind of shut this down. So I don't know that it's over, over this week, but it may not. I mean, nobody really in the business seems to think that the fall is going to be realistic. It always seemed college sports and youth sports seemed exceedingly unrealistic to me. And you know, I'm in the youth sports section of this with my daughter and the club scene and the optimism that people have, you know, when you're in like June, July and when that ought to be fine by the time the season goes and now all of a sudden it's August 1st and people start looking around going, Whoa, uh, well, nothing's different than what's at mid March. And I think with colleges and with the

youth sports stuff too, there's so much liability that, you know, the NFL can do what they want. They can get the players to sign whatever contracts they want. If somebody tests positive, they move that person out, bring the next person in. Basketball was able to do this the best just because of the nature of the sport and how well it's run. I think once you get to the college and below, there's too many variables. There's no overseer of the whole thing who makes sense.

Boxing and college sports have always been the two There's no overseer of the whole thing who makes sense, right? Boxing and college sports have always been the two that are just completely rudderless in 90 different ways. And I never thought it was realistic because ultimately the liability is always going to be the reason not to do it. It's going to be the big deterrent. And when you throw in the fact, like you're asking kids 18 to 22 to make good decisions because they're not in a bubble situation.

The baseball players don't stay in. Not all of them, but some of them. 18 to 22 is when you're going to make your worst decisions. You know, maybe if you're really a bad decider, it might stretch to 24, 25, but for the most part, colleges, when you make your mistakes to ask college athletes to do the right thing and, you know, think of other people and they it's, it's not happening. So I'm not surprised, but you know, I, I know we we've talked about this. You've been on this podcast probably, I don't know, 15, 16 times since the pandemic started. And there's a historic feeling with this year for all these different reasons. Right. And you think like when we're old and we'll look

back and I'm like, man, remember 2020 enlisting all these things that happened. And one of the things would be like, we didn't have college football, college football. Has there ever been a time in the 20th century or 21st century where we didn't have college football? I don't know what was going on in like world war two, world war one, but I'm guessing it was happening then in some form, right? Yeah,

it was. I mean, there were, there were all sorts of things that, I mean, you can go back historically and look at it, but there were, you know,

when, when people were going to fight world war two, there were teams that were completely wiped out. So you'll actually have fans like, are you about rivalries and say, well, that year we lost all of our guys to the war, you know? And then, um, you know, there was a time too, where it was so dangerous where, you know, they were just like, we don't even know if the future of football will exist in personal belief, but college football is going to take a beating from the critics this week.

And I would counter with, like, look, line up all the jokes, all the criticism, all just – I don't know if anger is the right thing because I'd love to know what the perfect solution would be. Not even a perfect solution. A solution. A solution that's actually something you could execute where you would get these 120 teams and really all anybody cares about are the Power Five. And I don't mean that to be dissident of the non-Power Five, but the money and the TV deals.

These teams are going, we can't lose this TV money. Look at all of this money that we're spending. It's not $3 million a year for a coach. It's $5 million. We're building new facilities every two years because our rival built a new one last year. Now we have to have all of this stuff. And we've got to expand our stadium because of all these different things. I don't know how realistic it was ever to get all of these schools, school presidents, conference commissioners, and all the people that matter,

and TV signing off on it because ESPN was as big a partner in kind of some of this realignment and really saving the big 12. And I don't mean that as a negative. I mean, it is, you know, ESPN was very powerful and how all of this, this realignment stuff got sorted out years ago. Yeah. I don't know who could, who could outline something where you go, well, if there was a college football commissioner, you really, you think, I mean, we can't, we couldn't get rob manfred and the players union to agree for like two months do you really think when every corner of this country is represented geographically in all the different interests and all the different traditions and all this stuff like did you really think like one

voice would be able to figure this out because you're also not negotiating with the players union i i would i think there's a lot of optics to it too where you go how do we have these kids come back and everybody's fighting about the lack of compensation which i'm very much plus if no kids come back what if you know we're getting kids are gonna come i think i think more kids actually do want to play football than don't want to play football i'm just talking about students because i think that's going to be another one where t where people are deciding last minute, is there virtual learning? Are we going to have 25% of the campus come back, 50%, whatever? It seems like all that stuff is still up in the air in a lot of places.

Would you have a problem if they said, all right, it's online and it's not going to be a normal campus situation and you're in some kind of bubble? I mean, look, even Michelle Roberts was arguing against the idea of a bubble when it was being presented. Like, what is this? I mean, she actually used the word incarceration, okay, to compare it to that. So that was anti-solution thinking, I felt, at the time, and she ended up being wrong. She's wrong.

Like, this is working out. I think she admits it, too. Right, okay, and that's great. But it's a whole different thing when these kids are the moneymakers. We can get into a much bigger debate about that that I don't want to. I've constantly said, hey, there's a way to compensate them. I'm not an NCAA anarchist by any means either, but there's a really hard execution of that to say, all these, we need these 12,000 volunteers to come back to campus and play football and you're going to get your education. But if we do it in some messed up

way, I just think there's going to be a lot of voices that say, you know, what are you really trying to do? And what they're really trying to do is save the TV money, which I can understand. But the, the biggest difference between basketball and even the NFL in basketball, LeBron wants to come back at least partly because he makes 30, 35 million a year, whatever he makes, like the biggest stars in the league were giving up a lot of money. And that was going to be like 600. I think it was 600 million. They were going to lose if they didn't come back. And it was also going to affect next year's CBA. So they had financial incentives to come back to college. Kids have no incentives other than if they think they could potentially get

drafted or they're just competitive or whatever. I have two questions for you because you're a much, much, much bigger college football fan that I have. I was expecting everybody would not play except for the sec. And I thought the sec was going to go like full NFL, like what, what basically what the NFL is doing and being like, look, man, we're playing. There's too much money at stake. Are you there in, or we'll just go move on to our third stringer. And they were just going to find the bodies. Was that ever a possibility

where the sec was just going to be this outlier that had football. I almost sent a tweet out after I'd heard the rumblings about the big 10. It was like my playoff projections for this year's college football, Bama, LSU, Georgia, and Florida, you know, like as, as for SEC teams. Um, but I was like,

that's not very original. So I didn't go ahead and send that one, but I don't, I don't think so. I really don't. I mean, Texas, there was a,

I was a Texas tech again, months ago is a completely different mindset. Like I was not upset with anybody going, Hey, I think we'll be better in a couple months. Cause a lot of us thought we were going to be better. Some people never thought that we were, and that turns into a whole nother, um, I think we'll be better in a couple months because a lot of us thought we were going to be better. Some people never thought that we were, and that turns into a whole other disagreement.

We're not better, and it sucks. And that's really the key factor. It's not a lack of leadership. You can not like all the decisions made along the process, but this virus is sticking around. It's much worse than people thought when it first started, and here we are. And until that was solved, it wasn't realistic.

But I don't know. I have not heard anything where that was going to happen, even though a couple months ago, Texas Tech. Would that have surprised you if the SEC went rogue? Yeah. Even that, I think, would surprise me. Okay. Second question.

You've spent time down south. You used to do these radio shows on site and all that you've seen the football life first you know firsthand dozens of times i've seen it a couple times it's definitely it's its own entity it's it's kind of unbelievable uh when you're actually down there and you're at a place like auburn lsu georgia wherever not having that this fall, what does that mean to like the South and Texas? Like what, how does that flip those places around when it was such an essential part of their DNA? It's devastating to the businesses. I mean, it's already devastating right now. Okay. But this is almost, you know, you ever go to spring break? Like I DJed in Jamaica once 20 years ago and I,

I worked at this place and I would start hanging out with some of the locals and talking to them. And I was like, how does this work? And I go, our whole yearly wages are these six weeks, these six weeks of spring break from all the American kids that come here. That's it. And then we don't work like this is it. There's no work after these six weeks. So we have to make the most of it. Um, it's, it's not that extreme because we're not talking about a third world country, when you go down south especially for guys like us being from new england which is maybe the the only pocket of the country where it isn't as obsessive as it is everywhere else like you roll into a tuscaloosa which is this historic old town with

these old buildings and stuff but i've been there when there isn't a game and it's it's just different and then when you roll in when it is a game you get on a wednesday or thursday people are already setting up their tents bill wednesday and they're already you know getting ready and i just feel like what happens here like yeah we don't we don't work a ton on those eight weekends you know it's just there's a home game there's eight of them or so every season and it's just understood like as game week is approaching, just, just not a ton is getting done because that is the most important thing.

And that's why, despite all of the concerns, and I'm not saying this is the right thing to do. And I would argue with friends from Boston. I was arguing with my dad about it a little bit. I said, if you opened up the sec and said, all right,

we're good to go. We're kicking it off at seven o'clock on Saturday. There'd be a hundred thousand people in the stadium. There would be. I went to an Auburn game in 2016 and and it was it was like one of those planes like you went there yeah i went there how are you down there for that was it the 30 for 30 thing um no i just went it's long story but i just ended up going down in and out with a bunch of people and uh you know first of all it was Second of all, the game ended and then

everybody's just walking there. You know, it's time to do the, whatever the traditions corner. Yeah. Like, all right, cool. It's a long walk. And then it's toilet paper in the trees, whole thing. And people, it was just clear. Everybody was going to be out all night. And it was, it was just like, we had nothing like this in new England. I, I, they had, there was five different things going on that I couldn't identify with in any way. And it was just, you know, stuff that they had grown up with and been doing for decades. I remember the first week I was on the campus of UVM. So we're talking 1993 and Vermont had this big reputation as a party school. And that was something you almost took pride in when Playboy magazine would bring out

its party school rankings. And we're in a massive auditorium class. So we're talking like a hundred plus people. And this professor, old school guy, UVM, writes number three, Florida State. He goes, number two, Wisconsin. And he's like, number one, UVM. He goes, you don't have a football team and it's two degrees outside and you're still the number one party school.

Give yourself a huge round of applause. So then I bring a bunch of UVM guys over the years to LSU games. And as they're walking through the tailgating from my friend's place, I became friends with the guy that started walk-ons down in bat rouge and you know as everybody knows i go to the bama lsu game i go every single year since 2008 and i went to five lsu games last year and we're there walking this is two new england kids who've never been in the scc before we're walking through the tailgates and then we're coming through the tunnel and then we're on the sideline watching the student section go bananas before the kickoff even happens. And one of my friends turns to me, he goes, Playboy should vacate all of our party school wins because this is embarrassing that anyone would even suggest that we were on this level. Oh man. It's, it's crazy to think fall without

high school football and college football. It does seem like we're going to have some high school football because at one point, I think it we're going to have some high school football. Because at one point, I think it was about 10 days ago, they said 37 of the 50 states were planning on playing fall high school football. We'll see if that actually happens when it happens. But there's a lot of reasons why this has been the weirdest year of I think either of our lifetimes. But just removing college football and potentially high school football as well. Pretty, pretty crazy.

All right. Let's talk about, um, let's talk about the PGA tournament really quickly. We have a new next tiger. The mantle has been passed. I didn't know this. This is, Oh yeah. Oh, it's happening again. My dad texted me next tiger.

I'm like, uh, didn't we do this with Spieth a couple of years ago? Didn't like Rory. We went down that road with him. Like I couldn't believe I was prepping for this and I didn't realize Rory hasn't worn a major since 14. Yeah.

The next tiger thing has kind of turned into, um, when that late nineties, when everybody was the next Jordan for like seven years, we were just trying to will it to happen. And then finally everybody just kind of gave up and then LeBron turned. But I will say the, the, the kid today ice in his veins, man, made a long chip on 14 off the green and then hit this legendary drove the green drove the par four.

Everybody had been trying to do it. And it was like, you're expecting Bryson. par four. Everybody had been trying to do it. And it was like, you're expecting Bryson. I thought it was going to be able to do it. And then, you know, it turned out to be more Kawa and, and perfect,

just perfect bounces in. The announcers was like, Oh, we're going to remember that for it. They just like had a fucking orgasm, but, uh, but he was the one.

And what was cool about this tournament, you know, at one point, like I think 12 guys were there in two strokes of each other and it was like, who's going to come out of this? And, and you really didn't know. And then all of a sudden it was him, but it was really fun to have a major back. I guess the one weird thing was the no fans.

It, it, I didn't for a major, I missed it. Yeah. Like him getting, for a major, for a major, I missed it. Yeah. Like him getting him driving. Yeah. And going within 10 feet. I think they would have lost their fucking minds on that shot. And there was like, it kind of didn't feel that much different than any other shot,

except for the announcers. But other than that, I really thought it was a great tournament. I, and I, I thought at various points over the last two days, I thought like five guys were definitely going to win. And then something would happen to them,

and then the next guy would go. I was rooting for Finau, just because I saw him in person at the LA tournament out here. And when I followed him for a few holes, I just thought this guy's unbelievable. I've never been anti-Dustin Johnson for any reason. I checked in with a couple people. I was like, Bryson, is he that bad?

Because he's not coming off great the last few weeks. A lot of anti-content out there. And they're like, he's worse. No one likes him. I go, come on, nobody likes him? No, nobody. And I double checked. So I wasn't, he's becoming this. I don't think

he cares either. I've, I've enjoyed his role, whatever it is just to have like sometimes sports you need. And it's not as simple as just, you need a villain, but you need that extra thing. Watching him swing is hilarious. Listening to the commentators when he swings is the funniest thing ever. And he just bombs away, bombs away. And he was in it until a couple of putts, but you're right. I actually had a harder time keeping track of this one. I was more focused on the hoops, but I had it up on the other TV and I kept thinking like, how is this thing going to end?

Because everybody's in it. Like they didn't have enough room on the first page of the leaderboard because how tight it was at the top. So yeah, it was fun. What's happening with golf really reminds me of baseball in the late nineties, where you have all these new stars and then you have this power game that feels like it's gone to another level with some of these guys, you know, like Finau and Finau and Bryson playing together on Sunday was just unbelievable. It was like McGuire and Sosa being together, you know, and I was so excited for the,

for that, that there were two holes where you basically had a chance to drive. But that, that 16 is the one that if you really belt it, like it's only like 295. Oh yeah. You have to, you have to fade it a little bit, but it's like realistic.

You could have a hole in one little golf talk on the show. Oh, thanks. I'm, I'm really into golf this year. I know the last couple years you said in texas morning and you go hey we'll go right after the pga and i went oh all right and well i was kind of thrown off by that i think to with the mid with the late 90s baseball thing you have these young guys that are just really good and it's like when we were in the late 90s and you know, no Mars coming up

and Jeter's coming into his own. And you just had all these guys in these different teams combined with like different types of people. Like you had Pedro going into his own, you had all the home run hitters, you had the stats getting wacky and, uh, and watching these guys. Now what I like about it is everybody's kind of has a different, brings a different gimmick to the table. Almost like wrestling, right? Like Bryson and Finau, they have their own thing. Brooks is like the fucking badass.

And when, you know, he completely fell apart today, which sucked for me at house because we bet on him. Plus 475. It was over in like two holes. But Brooks is kind of like the bouncer of these tournaments. Like even when he's not playing well, you still are always accounting for him, taking him seriously. DJ is like the talented one. You go down the line

and all these different guys have the identity, but then they have this new wave of these 24 and under guys that, you know, this might be the next generation of golfers. I just think that sports in an amazing place. It reminds me a lot of this, this group that finished up and coming into the final round of the cast of st almost fire where you're like all right

he's kind of like the wild guy he's a little bit like rob low you're like do we like him or do we not and then kepka like looks like he has his shit together and you're like i don't like this who's your favorite out of these guys just as like a casual golfing a lot of my golf uh opinions were influenced by van pelt you know because he lived this world that world is fascinating the caddies and getting to know some of those guys and not that i'm like best friends but i had one of the caddy leishman's caddy maddie kelly stayed with me at the hartford tournament so i had met him at augusta we rented house. He came over with a couple of the other caddies pro jock, and they were telling us stories. And my friends were like, this is the coolest thing in the world.

And then when he was in Connecticut for that tournament, which is a really fun tournament to go to, he stayed with me. And then we went out to dinner and I brought him to ESPN. I was showing all this stuff. And by the way, he's not the guy that I checked in with dechambeau i felt like you know since the tournament was going but when they start telling you about the hustle of you know if my golfer isn't doing well and i'm gonna start figuring out cheaper flights and can i stay somewhere and then scott used to let a bunch of caddies stay with him when they came through. Cause like, this is four free nights, a room board, like this is incredible. And so Scott always told me like you would Dustin Johnson, his personality on the course. And when he blew, what was it? The U S open. And I think he had thrown up behind a porta potty. Like I always, I always wanted him to do well after that.

Um, and I like female, I like female a lot just because of watching him swing a club seeing it in person it was kind of like your eye test with a young nba player where you go hey this guy looks a little different when i was younger i always had a hard time did you did you root against anyone or was it just colin montgomery like everybody else did in the states 20 years ago when i was younger i just i was way more xenophobic when I was younger. Like Seve was the only one out of all the foreign guys that I really rooted for. And I just, and I guess Greg Norman only cause he kind of felt bad for him when he, after he blew a couple, but I was just always like whoever the American was. It was where I grew up in the cold war. So it was, it was way more patriotic

back there. And by the way, once the Ryder cup thing happens, you kind of become anti some of those guys anyway, which is I think totally fair. I doubt there's a ton of Irish guys going, you know, who I really like as a SoCal golfers. Well, the ones I don't like now, and there's no reasons for it really other than like Patrick Reed, just cause it's so much fun to hate Patrick Reed. I don't like Justin Rose and it just comes down to, I don't like his face. There's no other reason. I, it's just, he, he's just one of those guys. He kind of bothers me. And I have no, I have no defense for it. I have no explanation. I just like instinctively

don't want him to do well. He came on the set with Van Pelt and I couldn't have been nicer. Seems like a nice guy. Yeah. I'm not saying it's rational, but I think with golf sometimes, cause you know, so little about these guys, you start liking them or disliking them based on really dumb things. Like, Oh, that guy uses a long putter. I'm out. Um, that guy's a slow player. I'm out. I hate that guy.

And that's like, really your only reason. But, um, I think this golf season, this was the first one. There's two more majors and then the tour championship. And, uh, and it's, it's really great. And I think we're going to need it because we're not going to have college football this year. And God only knows with the, uh, with the pro football, but I also, I like, I really like when it's West coast being on the West coast, selfishly, when we have these tournaments that, you know, the PJ is the best. Cause it's just on all day. I watched all of it all week. It was ESPN plus. And then today it was on ESPN. Then it went to CBS and it's just,

you can see the court, you get the wide shots of San Francisco. I just loved it. A plus try to think who else Van Pelt Van Pelt's boys, Duvall, who we had the call on, on the early hours today on ESPN. So he's always been a big Duvall guy, but... Flamed out fast. Flamed out, yeah. He loves Ian Poulter. So Ian Poulter came by and hung out with us. And he was...

Ian Poulter has this look in his eyes, like this crazy energy where you go, is this guy just an absolute blast to hang out with? And that's kind of how he came off. And it was funny too. Not that I think the podcast audience cares this much, but just Ian Poulter in person, better looking,

just throwing it out there. Uh, I, I find myself always kind of liking Jason day. I don't know if it's just the Australian demeanor or what it is, but he's just, I don't know. He's,

that's kind of what I ended up doing is as I'll look around and go, who do I think I like? Yeah. I was rooting for Jason day to day. I, I, one of the things we do is cause we bet all weekend yesterday. We had like great pulled,

pulled a couple of bets out of our butt. And then today went big on Brooks who fell apart and then try to audible to Bryson who immediately bogeyed the next two holes. And it was just like, you know, you know, it's, it's,

yeah, it's like we put, we felt like we put our stink on. We, I, me and Hench, my buddy Hench, we had that league of dorks,

that American league only a fantasy baseball team. And like we, we drafted a couple of guys this year and we're convinced we're single handedly responsible for the fact that they've sucked like Torres and the Yankees who everybody was like, this guy's going to win the MVP. We spent 30, $36 on him.

And he's like in a, him Devers, JD Martinez, like we murdered all of them so i don't know if you feel like you have the power to ruin people by betting on them or putting them on a fitness team i do i feel like i do have that power sometimes and i had a stock market i had a stock market run where i felt like it doesn't matter what i do today it's wrong it doesn't matter it was like every day every day for about a month a day trading where i went they know they know as soon as i put in the order it's just okay let's hammer them again and then

i'm like okay i'm gonna hold off today i'm like oh of course it went up so those are a lot of people can relate to that when you just feel like there's a guy in the machine that knows right and you're like a little man yeah um one other thing with golf i just want to mention quickly i think they've done a really nice job over the last like seven, eight years, adding bells and whistles to the telecast. You know, initially it was just the arc of the ball instead of just kind of squinting to see where the ball was. You could actually see the line of the ball.

Now they have like these apex stats and, um, miles per hour of the swing and shit like that. I really like it. I think it's fun. I like when they have that, they have that CBS, I thing where it's that picture of the guy from 270 degrees. You see a swing and the camera like moves different parts. I really feel like, uh, like golf stepped it up. That did that job.

That matrix shot where they, they come around the guy. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about when you can see how much power is in that swing for some of these dudes and then how far inside their hands are and you just go how do you how do you repeat that that i mean again that's the whole point why that's how they that's how they they end up fucking up their left knee because you see like how much power is going into their left kneecap and all these guys like that's people feel like that Bryson is gonna be like uh you know like a football running back that's has the three 390 carry seasons and then they're done like he's

putting so much torque on his left leg like it's not sustainable I asked Van Pelt if there's any way we could evolve to being a little bit more negative on the broadcast. On golf? Yeah. Because I even, there's something about us in this country where we hear somebody with an English accent and we just bend the knee where you go, I love being criticized by English guys. I accept your criticism, whether it's a cooking show or a talent show or anything. Yeah. English accent. Yeah.

Just rip, rip everybody because, you know, you're going to get away with it and when like even faldo who would say like shambo screwed something up and he was he was upset about it and father's like he burns he he burns he burns with a fire and you're like you that's it's what was that i was like that's just you saying he's an asshole but you didn't want to you said it like the nicest way possible it's so funny how the golf audience can do that all the time there because it's such an incestuous little community. They're afraid of, of any, anyone, the two guys today who should have been criticized Brooks who talked to big game yesterday and basically was like, how many majors has everyone won? Like basically like, you know, this, this tournament's running through me. And then he just sucked and they just stopped showing them, but they never had like the two minute, you know, this, this tournament's running through me. And then he just sucked and they just

stopped showing them, but they never had like the two minute, you know, like the conversation you and I would have, we're in booth, like, wow, I can't believe Brooks shit the bed today. What happened to that guy? Like he shot a 74 today. It was four over and they, they were like, ah, rough day for Brooks. And then the other one was DJ who basically was just playing for pars. It looked like, and he wasn't being aggressive enough and he was basically letting everybody hang around, hang around, hang around. And then, you know, he got jumped, but I, I thought they could have been more critical of him too, but you're right. They they're very rarely will criticize golfers. Cause I think they know how hard golf is. I mean, I'm not asking for everybody to, right.

I'm not asking for everybody to dump on anybody, but there should be just one tournament where it's a free for all, where they just decide it's different. And then the announcer's like 50 bucks. This is in. And the other guy's like, no way, not this guy. Like, I don't, you trust him on the 17th with a lead. No fucking way.

Well, we were joking. Me and a house of Nathan were texting house of Nathan. They have a fairway roll and coming up tonight. If you want like the deep dive of, uh, of the tournament. Um, and we were joking about fee now because he's a legendary,

you know, he'll kind of fall apart on the back nine at some point. Like he has not been able to get over the hump and we were just kind of waiting for it, waiting for it. And then finally hit it into the deep rough, I think on 16. And that was kind of it. But, waiting for it, and then finally hit it into the deep rough, I think on 16, and that was kind of it.

But it would be funny if the announcer's like, man, it's going to be interesting to see which whole pheno self-destructs. But they'll never do that. You're right. They'll never do it, and they don't do it on the NBA, so they're certainly not going to do it on golf, as we've been reminded by watching all the home announcers. The thing they're doing on the NBA now, all the local announcers are just doing this liberally is the,

and it happened yesterday with Damian Lillard in that Portland game against the Clippers goes to the line. They're up one. And the Clipper guy goes, Damian Lillard, 88% three point shooter this year. He's just been money. And then Lillard misses.

And then the color guy will be like, Oh, you did it again. And he's like congratulating because the play-by-play guy put the Maloik on him. That's the one time that they'll kind of fuck with the players. Yeah, that's been going on

so long that I... Now everybody does it. Everybody does it. Everybody does it. I can't believe somebody hasn't tracked it. Does the free throw percentage go down? It is. Like I had bet on Portland yesterday. I was mad when the guy did it. Everybody does it there. I can't believe somebody hasn't tracked it. Does the free throw percentage go down? It is like I had bet on Portland yesterday. I was mad when the guy did it. I was like, you motherfucker. I know what you're doing. And then day miss. I was like, ah, did that. Uh, we're gonna take a break. Then we're gonna talk hoops.

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at home depot.com slash decor. All right. I'm going to give you your choice. What to start with as we had a really fun bubble week. Here are the choices. Luca, these are all the kind of greenie teases, by the way. Are they though? Luca, closest thing to Larry Bird since Larry Bird. That's one. Number two, the Phoenix Suns, a team in the future. Maybe they're ready now.

Is their future now? Yeah, sorry. And then the third one. Maybe it was Dame time after all. Ooh. I want to rework your second tease. Okay, go ahead. Like, the future is bright in Phoenix.

The future is sunnier than ever? Yeah. The sun is hot and so are your sons. Sons, Lucaca or portland which one luca okay go he's not the next bird i i don't see the same player at all i see a different player but an incredible like every time you see him i mean that's might be the best game he's ever had i thought he looked like harden when i watched him and that's the mean, that might be the best game he's ever had. I thought he looked like Harden when I watched him, and that's the best comp. That's still the best comp with him. It's a little different because it's the same in that they generate all of the offense, but Luka can't shoot even close to what Harden can. But the way he initiates the offense, his pace, and there's multiple examples. I'm going to give you two really good examples here. The way you cut playing with

Luka makes you more engaged as another player. So he brings everybody up. This is the best offense in the NBA. It's the best thing that could have ever happened for Porzingis. And you saw, there's a bunch of them, but there was one play in the first half. He drives right.

He gets caught underneath the basket. Hardaway makes a late cut. He passes from almost out of bounds, the baseline cut, because everybody's playing five out and everybody's looking and trying to contest shots, that some of these secondary cuts are burning defenses left and right. He had another one with right, was the same deal,

and then in the late run, he goes left on the screen. They keep two with Doncic. Perzingis is coming down the right side of the lane, so that means since two are with Donchich, DiVincenzo leaves the corner to help on Porzingis because that's really what he's supposed to do because he's caught in the middle. And then Donchich can make that last minute pass better than anybody because of his size and his vision. Some of those passes, the way he passes the corner when you think the possession is over,

he's going to just fall down to the ball. And he just kicks out. It's basically one of the biggest threes the entire game and so i don't think he looks i don't think bird played like this i mean you know better than anybody i think he's just the the level this kid is at as special as we knew coming into this season is unbelievable and he still doesn't even shoot it that great i think he's still like 31 from three so i don't think there's ever going to be another bird i've i've said that many times i think the stuff that luca does in 2020 reminds me of the stuff bird was doing in the mid 80s like even that box score he had last night at 36 19 and 14

like no one else has had that by the way. Yeah. But those would be the games bird would have on the West coast. And the thing with Luca is the assists are not like cheap assists. Like, as you said, you know, he has the typical, like the James Harden type of assists where he brings the second guy over and then he hits the guy in the corner or whatever, the cross court, all the stuff he's doing to get guys open threes, but he's also creating these cutter passes. And like you said earlier, guys do kind of learn how to play with him and they're more active and they're more engaged when that team is doing well. There's other times where you watch them and everyone's kind of standing around. You can kind of make it so that it's Luca one on five and that's how to beat Dallas. But when he has everybody engaged like that and they're moving and cutting, that's what reminds me of bird because we never got to see bird and magic really either in the eighties with space.

It was always cluttered paint. The goal was always to get two points to get, uh, two as close as you could to the basket, to move things toward the rim. And I think if things were spread out, I really do think this is how bird and magic would have played. I think they would have been trying to constantly pull a second person over so they could find whatever open thing. I think, you know, especially bird would have been Luca doesn't post up like bird bird used to, but I think bird would have thrived on that with the cross court, knowing guys were in the corners, things like that in the eighties, he had the two guards basically on top of the key and then parish and

McHale and the paint like they, he didn't have the geometry that Luca has. And I think bird and magic would have taken advantage. My point is, um, I think some of the stuff Lucas sees is at a higher level than Harden, even though they're very similar with how the effect they have on a game.

I think he's a better passer than Harden is. I think Harden's a really good passer. I think, yeah, but I'm glad we're saying that. Harden's an awesome passer. Harden is a very, very, very good passer and a very good creator. Luka will see a couple things a game that I don't know who else would see it.

You know what? This is going to be funny considering the red hot suns but it reminds me of the rubio stuff you saw before the draft and rubio had these passes when he was playing overseas and it's such a young player he's 19 i think or something and he wasn't as big as luca because luca luca has moments where i'm like i can't believe you didn't just go for the layup you had it you. You were right there. One of the other games, I think against Houston, I had a few notes where I thought, okay, I get you throw to the corners every time, but sometimes you're not even,

especially against Houston where there's no big there that's coming over to contest you at the rim, just go ahead and put the layup in, and then you look and see what he did against Milwaukee. But Rubio would have these drives where he was probably too small to finish at the rim, especially if two people stayed with him. And you think okay he's the if you hit pause you'd go how's he getting out of this and he would do some crazy behind the back like in-air handoff to a trailer that would know to cut so that's the point if you know your point guard is always going to be looking for you and keeping these possessions alive where houston's different in that it's spread out and there's kind of like one read in Houston you're moving to a spot you're not reacting to the guy and and I just think there's more chances to do something cool on Dallas

Houston you're like I'm moving here and Harden's gonna find me and that's really your job you're moving here here two spots once you do it a million times too it's not that hard like i remember the first time when the three was really taking over and seeing how lebron would anticipate the help and he would know okay do you come off the corner do you stay in the corner like some of these teams you can't really leave the corner and with dallas it's so hard because they're huge like they're putting a lot of big guys out there so they're playing small but they're not small and so you can't just let perzingis have a free rim run because he i mean he had some dunks in that game against milwaukee that were like oh that's right

like this guy's kind of insanely good you know it's a nice reminder because he's had some moments this year where he hasn't been as good i flipped my mind on, I changed my mind on whether he's the number, the right number two for Luca probably once a week. Cause sometimes you think like, he's probably just better off playing with another swing guy, like his version of Paul George and having like a pretty empty paint. So he could just kind of do whatever he wants. And then you see a game like last night and you're like, oh, poor Zingas is the perfect guy for him.

You know, if he can unlock that, butzingis is the perfect guy for him. If he can unlock that. But going back to the passing thing for a second, because another guy who was like this, and he lost it when he got to the NBA at some point, but in college he was like this, was Kenny Anderson. And he was a guy, when people played with him and he went to the basket, guys were moving around with their hands up because they knew they might get the ball. It's just, it's a different thing. And I think people sometimes get confused with,

this guy is a good passer because he gets assists and he passes to the open guys versus this guy sees things that are unusual. And that's one thing with him. And the other thing is that sometimes he has these rebound games. It's another thing that's one thing with him. The other thing, um, is that sometimes he has these rebound games. It's another thing that reminds me of the bird. Like bird would have these games where he'd have 18 rebounds, 19 rebounds, 20 rebounds playing small forward with McHale and parish and Bill

Walton and bird would get 17 rebounds. Luca gets boards. Luca's bigger than I think people kind of give him credit for. Like he he's probably a half inch shorter than bird was. I think bird was six, nine Lucas, six, eight and a half. Um, that,

and, and then just how he is always just able to get by whoever's in front of him is ridiculous. I don't understand it. I don't understand what Harden is able to do over and over again. These guys are just going by people whenever they want. And I don't really fully understand it. I don't know what I would do to defend get by like harden has the second best handle i think the kairi in the league and i don't know they get

some huge gap it's just the kairi looks really great with it because he does some insane things but it's not like anybody's getting the ball from harden uh you always you always have to worry about reaching in you have to worry about a shot because if you're near as you just stick his legs out so there's a million little minefields you have to navigate with harden where it's almost like when steve nash was at his best it was easier for him to dribble the hoop because people were running away from him trying to close out on passes right and he's like the rondo exactly so nash would get these open layups you go how did that happen he's like no because everybody's like they're defending him different their headset is completely different going no no i have to like when he drives i've got to jump and close out on a shooter because he's going to pass're defending him different. And their headset is completely different going. No, no, I have to like,

when he drives, I've got to jump and close out on a shooter because he's going to pass. So it actually looks like he's getting into the hoop easier. Harden's just impossible to deal with. And his, his big hips and he's so strong and he's compact that I think it's a little different with Luca, but Luca, it blows me away.

Like, look, Giannis is bigger than Luke is. We realized that Giannis sometimes on a double, when he tries to handle through it, it can be a problem. But once he gets any momentum going, if you don't find any way to slow him down, his handles fine. He's going to get through everybody. Luke, his size gets real small with his dribble. He gets really small. So there there's these big perimeter guys that can handle, but you go, you know, there's still science here where if a seven footer is trying to dribble through traffic there's more

opportunity to go ahead and swat this way luca his angles and his pace and the way he protects the ball keeping the dribble live it's it's a different it's almost like he dribbles like he's a smaller guy well he is putting together this is i think one of the greatest second year NBA seasons ever you know this is a year he's having a year that somebody should have like it would be the best year of his career and meanwhile he's like 21 right this is I don't know

just turn right the next level for him I guess would be to improve the three-point shooting and get that over 40% because that's the flaunt his game right now. Yeah. I mean, and that's, that's a bad number for some of the shots he takes too. But, well, but he, some of those are saving the shot clock shots.

So if he's taken a hundred out of every hundred threes, I bet for them are, I have to get this up or we're going to get a shot clock violation. I, he, he's about a one in every three, three point shooter, but he, that like 40 41 eventually i don't know that he's gonna do that like lillard's a good example of that i can't imagine what lillard's shooting numbers would be if he didn't have to do some of these bailout 30 footers and he can hit it so he'll take it and sometimes he's just in rhythm but the more i've i've watched lillard on the restart i go his if he had granted, CJ, imagine if he didn't have CJ, how much worse it would be. But there's some shots in there that I'm sure he doesn't even really want to take because they're not great ones. I think Luka does dribble in to some 30-footers with 17 seconds left on the shot clock that you don't necessarily want if somebody's at 31%.

But yeah, again, 21 inbruary i just looked it up so it wasn't the other day but it was this year he's almost an irrational confidence guy but with like a superstar who has irrational confidence which is another thing that reminds me of bird like that i haven't seen a game where he doesn't think any shot he's taking in any moment of the game is going in like he carries himself like a a 10 year NBA superstar. And you think like what, what, you know, LeBron as example, LeBron came in the league a little younger, but LeBron had this four year kind of indoctrination before we got to 2007 playoffs. And it's like, Oh man, he's all grown up. Luca should be going through that like a year or two from now, not right now. And he's like, Oh man, he's all grown up. Luca should be going through that like a year

or two from now, not right now. And he's going to be in this situation. You know, they're playing the Clippers in round one. It's a miserable matchup for them. They've gotten completely overmatched and they played them during the season. They have these two amazing defenders to throw at him. If he can solve them and turn even that into a seven game series and go toe to toe with those guys, that is not something a 21 year old kid should be able to do. And I'm not ruling them out. That was the other thing.

When you watch them before the draft though, there was no fear. And I'm, I'm saying this is, is somebody that's watched enough of the European players and international players is probably the better way to put it. But forever, a lot of those international guys,'re like okay skilled handle can shoot

where's your edge where's your edge and i really think this next generation of international players that we've seen the last few years have come into the league with some edge and donchage absolutely has it he gets pissed off in moments yeah there's a stretch in that game against milwaukee where he didn't get the call he does complain but so does every single superstar um i mean he's not at lowry level but he's he's definitely a complainer but he got hit he was mad and then the next play he kind of initiated the contact touched his face and they showed the replay and he didn't really even get hit and i think vian gundy even said hey that's not even a foul but in his mind he was so pissed off about two physical things that had happened you could see like a little bit of a switch that was turned up the next time he got the ball where he was like all right now i'm taking this out on you guys and that's the way

he played as a teenager against grown men in the best competition and that's something because you're moving forward you just have to put more stock on hey is there any six nine guy or six eight guy that's completely unafraid of adults while he's 18 putting up massive numbers at the top league then maybe that's something we should factor in here a little bit because I think a lot of the guys in previous generations came over and a lot of the American players were like, these guys are soft. That's what made it so outrageous when basically three

teams passed on him because I count the third team traded him. Yeah, three teams. You're right. You know, the Aiton thing, it was defensible. I wouldn't have done it, but I at least get it. It's a center. The guy,

people really did think he was going to be good. It's been born out now. He's playing. He's good. Yeah. He's good. The Bagley one was indefensible and the Atlanta trade was indefensible. It was indefensible.

And it happened because Luca did it. He did it on the biggest level. It was the second biggest league we have. And he was playing against people that were 10, 12 years older than him. And he was the best player in in the league and it wasn't like he was lighting up the g league you know uh no it's just crazy it's crazy that he fell to three and you liked him i don't know when you did your trade well you don't write anymore but you did did you do did you do your trade value where you said to me we we were doing a pod last year. Like, I think I'd have them.

What? Two behind Giannis. Well, I was going to, I was like, I was like, whoa, whoa.

You know, I I'm always, let's at least see something here. And it's going to turn out that you're right. Like I'm, I'm a little bit harder to impress when it comes to that stuff. And I wasn't even anti him at all. I just,

to see this, this soon. And I just wish they were better defensively. They suck in close game. So that's why that milwaukee win was so big they've had so many losses on one possession i think eight and then their record in five point games is brutal it wasn't a team that was supposed to do this this year they weren't supposed to be a team that like had a puncher's chance of beating one of the three

best teams in the league in a playoff series i think it just kind of happened like i think they were putting their roster in place for next year and the year after we're going to be the years. Um, would you, I'll give you one guy for the next 10 years, Giannis or Luca. Who would you rather have?

I'm going to go Giannis because of the defense. I think I would go Luca because there's a track record of transcendent offensive players translating to guaranteed titles. What is Giannis then? He's an amazing player. You don't think he's a transcendent? You're talking like creating shots

for everybody seeing the floor. That's where you're giving Luca the edge the edge over yannis obviously because i i think it's i think it's like 1a 1b but i the fact that he's younger than yannis by like four years and i'm getting him from age 21 to 31 i know i'm getting somebody who every year is going to be like one of the three best offensive players in the league i can build build a team around him. Um, and also somebody that I think will stay in one place. Whereas Giannis, I don't know. I don't know what his next eight to 10 years look like. Where does he go? Does he go to Miami in two years? Does he go to golden state? Does Danny flip again, three years later? Like I don't have a feel for that with Luca. I just think he just

is going to be happy in Dallas. He's going to stay there. And that's where he is. Speaking of edge though. That's what I love about Giannis is he'll fight. Like he'll go. I love you. When somebody is messing with him, he's like,

I'm not afraid of this and not that you should be, but you know, look, there's certain guys that like it and like that confrontation, like the conflict. And Giannis likes those things. And some of those Sixers games, I was like,

this guy just, he wants to dunk on him. Beat. He wants to go at these guys. He wants to think of them last night. They, they, they clinched the one seat. They have nothing to play for. I mean, the only thing they had to play for yesterday was, Hey, cool. Eric Bledsoe is back. We kind of have our team. They were going all out. And I think, you know, in the honest is still younger. And LeBron was like this too, in 2009, 2010, 2011. So it's hard to compare LeBron's at a different stage of his career, but LeBron is doing the, oh man, I got

to get used to being an empty gym. It's really hard. I really miss the fans. Giannis is just like, who are we playing? I'm going all out. I'm going to put up 35, 15 and eight. Um, and that's the difference. He's, he is the best player in the league. Luca, I think will be the best player in the league. And I don't know what year that's going to be, but I think he will be. Do you think it,

don't you think at some point in the next five years, he will be the best player in the league. Um, we're, we're definitely ruling out Lonzo Ball, right? And Ben Simmons. Okay. All right. You know, Giannis is going to be, what, 30?

The thing with Giannis is I don't feel like he's a finished product yet, which is the scary thing for him. So the case for Giannis over Luka would be, Giannis still has room to get better offensively. There are still things that he could add and that would be it. Let's take a break and we'll talk about Phoenix and Portland. Let's take a break to talk about CBS All Access. I'm a subscriber.

You know why I'm a subscriber? Because they have 90210. They have Melrose Place, which if you remember from the first month of the pandemic, I talked about how I watched the first four seasons of Melrose Place. Yeah, that was on CBS All Access. Now they have MTV's The Challenge, which I think they have seasons 11 through 31. So there's some old school ones in there. I might have watched all of those

too. Look, it's a pandemic. What else am I going to do? Guess what else? Live sports finally back. CBS All Access is letting you cheer on the world's best players for the world's most prestigious tournament, the UEFA Champions League. Relive the action, the drama, and the glory of your favorite players and teams all from the comfort of your home. Get in on the action stream every match live on CBS all access. This is great to learn more. Start rooting from the sidelines, head to cbs.com slash UCL to sign up for your free trial. Now you won't want to miss it. Okay. Let's do Phoenix. Cause, uh, we've given them a hard time. They've been some really head scratching moves. They're not well run. They've changed their coaches.

A lot of times, uh, we gave that, or I gave them a book or shit last year for not playing in the, uh, not the world championships team. You could feel this happening before the pandemic. Aiden came back from his PD suspension or whatever it was. There's masking agent suspension. And all of a sudden they started to look pretty good. And then the pandemic happened, come back. It's like, why are they in the bubble? They shouldn't be there. This is stupid. We should only have 20 teams, 19 teams.

They have looked like a team that would be like a fourth or fifth seed in the East. They are sophisticated at the end of games offensively. They can protect the rim. Aiton is like a legitimate problem. Now. Uh, I like the way they play together. They have shooters. They, whoever would have thought that cam Johnson pick wasn't going to be a disaster. I certainly thought it was going to be terrible. He's pretty good. Bridges has been really good. Yeah. Bridges has been really good. It's a team that makes sense when you watch them. And if we can somehow, and I don't know how realistic it is, if we could somehow get Phoenix Portland for the eight, nine game, that would be fantastic. I don't think we're going to get it, but it's, it's not inconceivable right now. Phoenix still has three games left. They're 31 and 39. Memphis is 33 and 38 with

Boston and Milwaukee left. So they could leapfrog them. San Antonio is 31 and 38 with only Houston and Utah left. And then Portland's 33 and third now in Dallas and Brooklyn left. So Portland Phoenix isn't inconceivable, but are you on a scale of one to 10? How surprised are you that this son's team actually has a legit future now? Well, I looked at the roster and felt like, you know, whenever you're this team in this mode, all you want to do is do we have like two guys that give us a chance moving forward? And sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Look where Minnesota was just two years ago, thinking we have Carl Anthony Towns, we have Andrew Wiggins, like we're good and we can build around this. We have some other picks in and Wiggins is gone and Towns went from the number one player that NBA GMs would start their team with two years ago to now he wouldn't even crack the top 10 um it's booker booker is someone at times that i even

though i liked him because i i do like like we definitely i think all of us that love basketball we love young scores you know once you become mellow and you're north of 30 and your score is like oh well all that guy does is you whatever, even though mellow used to rebound too. So Booker would scare me because I remember doing a radio segment where I took young players that everybody was freaked out about, like what their ceiling could be, and I'd say, well, what if Devin Booker's Ben Gordon? Like, look at prime Ben Gordon years.

There's some monster, monster years, and it's not out of the realm of possibility. That's what could happen. Pre-everybody turning on Wiggins, I'm like, what if Wiggins is Jason Richardson? That's not terrible, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. That's what could happen. Pre-everybody turning on Wiggins, I'm like, what if Wiggins is Jason Richardson? That's not terrible, but it's not what you're thinking when you're taking somebody number one. And what we first thought of Wiggins' athleticism,

I don't think it's been 20 years. What's that? He might be Jason Richardson. Yeah, right. I mean, you're going to play a long time. Everybody would want you to some degree. But I see Booker having this next level of scoring ability and the funny thing is everybody else is hitting shots on this team from outside except

for booker during this five game win streak which is the longest win streak the sons have had in six years he's at 31 but everybody else i mean deandre ayton's at 43 rubio of all people is at 47 from three uh sarich is 46 cam johnson's hitting shots but they have a very javon carter had six threes that yesterday what they have is two guys that you think give you a chance if they reach their ceilings in eight and booker so that part i liked i don't know if people are taking them lightly in the bubble they're clearly not missing any shots but they have a very defined group of eight guys. Would you agree with that?

Like when you watch their substitution patterns, you go, okay, Kendall's he's coming in to mess some guys up. Bridges is a guy that you can switch with. Okay. They're going to use eight in here in this. Now,

Cam Johnson's attacking the hoop and driving a little bit more. And then Booker, Booker is your get us out of trouble score. And he is that special of a score. I, you know, I know we get really obsessed with the list and thing, but are there 10 guys that can get their own shot? Like Booker can.

Well, the thing with him two years ago, I remember one of the pods KD was on, I was talking about what young player do you think really has a chance who hasn't, you know, who's, who's young. And he immediately said Booker. And he was like, that guy's got something. And you've heard, you know, the great current stars. Sometimes they will anoint these younger guys because they can see it. It's like when the, you know, when like the great chefs know that there's some sous chef coming. Exactly. That guy's a fucking awesome cook. And with Booker, you could see that they all, yeah, you could that they all felt that way about him.

The thing that's really, really, really fascinating to me is I think if this didn't happen for them, I think he would have become a subplot. I know he's got a contract, all that stuff, but there's a reason Draymond said that stuff on TNT. It wasn't an accident. All these guys talk to each other, and I don't think Booker was that happy in Phoenix.

They haven't been successful. Why would you, why would he be happy? He's had five coaches. He is a terrible owner. He's, you know, um,

so I do think there was a sense when we got to the summer that him and towns were the two guys that were going to start. Maybe Simmons and Embiid, the rumor mill starts going people. Oh, could you get this guy? Could this guy happen? Maybe Ben Simmons gets traded for Devin Booker. Like who the fuck knows. But now if you're Phoenix and you're looking at this, even off these five games, you're going kind of like our team. Hey, let's, let's keep this going. Let's add to this. Let's get one more wing and build around Booker and ayton um you know could

ayton be a 22 and 12 guy who protects the rim and uh stretches the d a little bit like you're respectful enough yeah from the outside i think you could i think he's really been impressive like really his shooting legitimately impressive hey his shooting touch at arizona and then you're you go like in this, in this movement of getting away from the traditional five, which is, I'm not arguing against it. Then it becomes,

Hey, can we find a five that's traditionally like that big and can do some of those old school things, but then we can keep out there when everybody else goes small. Like, can we do that? And that's where some of these guys could still stay on the court and his shooting touch,

even at Arizona, you're like, there's this kid's got a really good feel. Well, the thing with him was they were always like, he has the defensive tools, but he has no idea what he's doing. Like that was the rap on him in college. It's like, well, if he ever puts it together and now the, some of the stuff that he's doing in these games are pretty advanced to where he was two years ago. And it's funny because I was looking up our NBA draft guide two years ago. Our guy's doing an awesome job.

And I wanted to see where Gary Trent Jr. Was. And your new favorite player. Oh, where do you rank him? What are your five top five bubble guys right now? Tybalt, Trent Jr.

Is there anyone even worth mentioning? Best players in the league. Luca, Trent Jr. Giannis, I think is the top three right now. Although Trent Jr. There were signs of him crashing back to earth today in the Philly game.

He finally missed a couple, but I looked at our ringer draft guide and I'm reading the thing and it's like weaknesses, um, not very athletic defensively. Everybody went at him. This guy is a bad defender. And I texted KOC cause KOC and Verno and I,

we text about different stuff and I texted it to KOC. I'm like, I'm like, wow. And he's like, yeah, he didn't show any sign of any of this Portland stuff. This is why we had him 37th.

And it makes you think like, all right, we're judging these guys in these draft guides and stuff. These guys are 18 and 19. He went to Duke, not the, you know, mixed results with the Duke guys defensively, I think over the last 15 years, fair to say. And then that guy goes 37, the draft he's better than all of the guys that Celtics have taken the last couple of years in the first and second round. Right. You just don't fucking know.

And with Aiden, it was like, Oh yeah, you know, he's got the tools, but who knows? And now you're seeing this guy who actually kind of knows where to go and what to do. I don't know. He's an asset. They still should have taken Luka, but it's not Sam Bowie. Aiton was, it was interesting kind of going back and talking to people before he was drafted because I had a lot of people going, he sucks on defense. And then my first thing after a while, I used to do full, when I do my synergy breakdowns, I would do hundreds of clips on defense.

And I was like, this is such a waste of time because most everybody sucks. You're young. You don't know what you're doing. You can get away with stuff. And then I don't like on draft night when he goes, you know, has trouble staying staying in front of this and how are you going to stay in front of these guys the lakers didn't have anybody you can stay in front of anybody in that okc game chris paul did whatever he wanted they got his switches against kuzma shea gill just can get by anybody there's there's a bunch of players i don't care who you are so then to ask a kid coming right out of college like hey

how are you going to stay in front of this guy like 30 year olds don't stay in front of this dude all right yeah but with eight and i thought when i watched him at arizona he was always trying to help for somebody else to screw up so it would look like it was on him i'm not saying he's perfect but there was more to the defensive problems than just he was bad on defense and was lost there were times where you could see he was actually trying to do the right thing at least this is the way i saw. And I would check with other people and it was very, it was very split. It was very split between the, yeah, it's kind of a mess. You know, he's, he's not that for somebody we need as a five to come out and meet the guard and stay with the

guard and at least kind of just push them to the side, which doesn't, I don't think it happens as much as it used to. Um, but I look, there, there are eight games under 500. And for that is a huge win. That's a huge win for the Phoenix suns. What's really weird is if you look at the history of the suns, it's a team that always manages to regain relevance every like four or five or six years, but they had something bad has to happen. And then they'll scramble back and all of a sudden it's good again. But you go back, like go back and look at them in basketball reference. Like they made the 76 finals out of nowhere to play, to be almost beat the

Celtics late seventies, early eighties. Like they're in it. It's like them in Seattle and Portland are the three best teams in the West. They have all the, you know, they had Walter Davis, Paul Westfall. They had guys who were first team all NBA guys. Um, then cocaine scandal completely falls apart. Then the late eighties, all of a sudden they're good again. And they're like relevant again. And they're in the mix. It dips for a year. They trade for Barkley. They have a whole run with him that falls apart. Then all of a sudden they have Jason kid on their team and they have this whole other, they're kind of fun in the late nineties. Nothing really happens. Trade him for Marbury. They have a Marbury Stoudemire year that falls apart. And then all of a sudden Steve Nash shows

up and they have another run for like five, you know, five, six years with nash that finally ends it's like oh man that sucks then they have that weird year with drago Isaiah Thomas and uh remember when they won 48 games they won 48 games and I I think one of my favorite they didn't make the playoffs they didn't make class they won 48 they didn't make the. And Hornacek was the head coach. And Hornacek came by because, you know, when you're a coach in Phoenix, you already have to start planning on your new home after you go there. And I asked him, and he'd said it somewhere else, too. I go, what happened? He goes, you know, it was just one of those series or seasons

where we just caught a lot of the teams on the right night. We were a lot of bad. He was basically saying, like, yeah, we weren't really that good. It was a lot of schedule. Because they weren't supposed to be good at all. They went 48. And you had all those teams bottled up there that won a lot of games like eight, nine and 10.

And he basically was like, yeah, we weren't that good. We just, we beat a lot of teams that we just caught him at the right times. They've had a lot of great players on that team over the years. Like a lot. And Booker is the next great one,'ve had a lot of great players on that team over the years. Like a lot. And Booker is the next great one, I think. So you back on Booker? I think he's potentially really, I think he's potentially like a second team all NBA guy.

I don't think he's there yet. But I think we're seeing the seeds of somebody who could be the best guy on like a second round playoff team. But I think why this was so important is I think this summer there would have been rumors about stuff. Like you look at the guys running the Knicks now, Leon and West, like those guys, like Calipari is their guy. They know all the Kentucky guys, every Kentucky guy from this point on going forward is going to be rumored to be going to the Knicks at some point, Davis towns, Booker, you name it. Anyone who passed through the Calipari pipeline.

But Booker was one that if he had said, I want out of here, get me the fuck out. I'm done. Like, what do you do if you're the Suns? Like you kind of have to accommodate him or look around for a trade. And now I feel like they bought some time with that. And also I think they're fun to watch.

I'm glad that they've been able to turn it around, but it was a long haul. I still think they're fun to watch. I'm glad that they've been able to turn it around, but it was a long haul. I still think they're poorly run, but they did some good things over the last year. Maybe James Jones maybe has it. That's the latest guy, right? James Jones? Yeah.

I mean, the TJ Warren thing is tough for them considering they gave him up for nothing and TJ Warren is the MVP of the bubble. They did do that to get Rubio, though, to be fair, but I mean, just just giving away TJ Warren makes no sense. In a vacuum, it's like, if you want Rubio, keep TJ Warren?

No, you're absolutely right. Try to get both? It's kind of like when you talk about the Tobias Harris $180 million and you go, why would you do that? You're like, well, you do it because you don't want to... Well, it's funny like i remember talking to somebody with atlanta it was like well you know we just you got to just pay

joe johnson that you got it and then i was younger i was more impressionable and so i definitely kind of just repeated that when i was doing the old nba today pods and it was uh it was right in your face no i just went yeah you know you got to kind of try to just go ahead and do that. And I remember thinking back, like, do you have to though? But Philadelphia with Harris, because I was looking at their numbers, can I just throw a couple quick numbers at you here? I just, but before you do this,

I am never of the opinion that you should overpay guys to that degree. It just, there's no track record of a working. Even when you're over the cap and you're protecting the asset and you want to make sure that you have something to move later on. I think that harris contract the moment they did it he's untradeable like you now have that guy for five years at 36 no one's untradeable i'm not

if you're you're taking somebody's bad contract back to get rid of that there's every time we say a contract's untradeable then somehow it ends up getting moved maybe not uh with three years remaining and that kind of money. But I was looking at, with all of the concerns about what the cap could be and the loss of revenue and all these different things, the tax is at $139 now, and I think we're at $109 in the cap. The Sixers are $147 million next year, $147 million in two years, and three years from now, there are four teams that are over 100 million

in committed salaries, and the other three are kind of just over 100 million. The Sixers are earning on the books three seasons from now for 138 million. And that is horrifying. The Horford contract is...

Yeah. That's the killer. Yeah. Because I don't even know you know, not only is he a bad fit for them but there's no way you can trade that contract unless you took somebody else's mistake back. And now Horford's not bad. It's not like he's a bad basketball player.

But for what they are and what they have and you could see like even today's game, they lose Embiid in the first half. They don't have Simmons. And Horford actually kind of looked like Horford. Yeah, he looked good. And it's like, yeah, because this is,

you know, he's playing the position he's supposed to play doing the things that he's been doing for the last 12 years. He's not a stretch six, which is basically how they're using him. Let's stretch six. I have not heard that.

Stretch six. Let's, heard that. Stretch six. We'll take a break and then we're going to talk about Philly. One more break to talk about Blue Apron. Home cooking matters now more than ever. That is for damn sure. With Blue Apron, you can have peace of mind

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your own home dwelling with Blue Apron. Enjoy delicious home-cooked meals. Check out this week's menu and you get $30 off across your first two deliveries when you visit blueapron.com slash Simmons. Blue Apron, feed your soul. So Philly loses Simmons, looks like for the year. Embiid gets hurt today. We're taping this right now. It is 7.30 Sunday night Pacific time.

So I don't know what the Embiid injury is. And they were able to unleash this small ball team with Alec Burks, my guy, Thibel, my favorite player in the league, Horford, a rejuvenated Josh Richardson. Richardson, yeah. He was like, I got all these shots now. He was in a coma in the bubble until today for some reason,

but they actually had some energy. And, you know, as always, the body language, Dr. Bill Simmons, is going to look at this and go, what's going on here. Why are you guys playing so much harder without your two best players? And why to have you look so lethargic and some of these other games and not to overthink the whole thing, but it just is clear that their roster is just too weird. It's not the right mix of guys. And even like removing Embiid and Simmons, which should be a death blow. Like if Dallas loses Porzingis and Luca,

that team's not competing. Philly loses their two best guys. And they're kind of like, all right, guys, let's, we got this. And,

and they actually have like a hop in their step and they're flying around. And it's just a weird team. And if I'm the Celtics, I am delighted. I'm playing them in round one. I don't know if the Celtics are much better, but I would much rather play them than Miami and Indiana. With no Simmons, um, even though we can talk about the challenges, but it felt a little optimistic, maybe a little too optimistic for me

that the Shaq Milton thing was just going to fix everything. And now Ben Simmons is the four and it's going to be great, but it did look early on, at least in the scrimmages and some of that stuff, it looked pretty good.

And when they lost to the Pacers, I thought they were a mess defensively. When they lost to San Antonio, I actually thought it was Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan were hitting amazing shots. By the way, they didn't lose to them. Shaq ended up hitting the game winning three. It looked like they were going to lose to San Antonio.

That wasn't bad defense. That was guys hitting great shots. Pac the way, they didn't lose to him. Shaken and hit in the game winning three. It looked like they were going to lose to San Antonio. That wasn't bad defense. That was guys hitting great shots. Pacers was terrible defense. I have this thought now with a couple days to go that there are a handful of teams that are supposed to be pretty good, or at least we have expectations of that still don't really know who they are. The Lakers have no

idea. They're changing up their rotation again. They're the worst offensive team in the bubble since this restart by a pretty healthy margin some weird quotes from them too yep the quotes teams make when they know something's not right the clippers on paper i think you and i both like them to come out of the west but i don't i don't well i don't a fine feels really like that group has never done anything kawaii's done something the group has never done anything doc has done something but the group has never done anything and then denver is trying to figure this thing out uh yeah the porter wildcard thing right now he's the he's like the best big wing in the league uh which is obviously me kidding did you watch that uh do you watch that

denver utah game yeah it was insane it was so much fun it was like a little reminder to who donovan mitchell is too yeah because i think myself included utah was kind of the cross off team where you just look at everybody from three through six and everybody wanted to play utah and then you watch them in that game like all right well utah's not going to roll over it's not going to be an easy i don't think they're going to roll over quinn's too good but i would put them in the group of still trying to figure out who they are and the bad thing for that though is is Denver they beat them all three times now this year and the Jokic numbers against Gobert like as much as they hey they have this big body like nobody can do anything with Jokic he just he did you see do you see the McHale he did on Gobert that I thought that was edited where it was like a

boomerang video where it was just one move, but it was the McHale doubled up. He, he did like three McHale had the menu of 13 moves. And sometimes he would combo them like a Chinese food restaurant. I'm like, I'm going to have the number one with the number three. And can I get the number five too? And he would just put three together. Jokic did. He kind of ended up with the McHale up and under, but he had done two other McHale moves leading up to it. It was amazing. He was abusing Gobert.

Abusing. Gobert can't. The numbers are significant. You go, you go and look at him and you go, oh, all right. So he just does whatever he wants against him. And that's why, you know, whenever we're kind of talking about all these different teams, Philly had problems. It still don't know who they were when they had everybody.

I know this has been a constant season-long fight about Embiid, Simmons. Has it worked? Did they figure it out? Was this new thing going to work out better? Harris doesn't take enough threes. Embiid, and maybe it's just the Orlando game, and it's like, hey, it's Markel Fultz. Who cares?

I'm not going to show. But Embiid has bad habits. He has bad defensive habits for as capable as he can be. He has some habits and some moments in there. And then when you look at Embiid on the court with no Simmons, it was cleaning the glass. It's over 1200 possessions and there are plus 12 on offense. I don't like what the thing with Embiid I don't like is when like there was a game the other day where he just was going through the motions the first half.

And clearly somebody said something to me, came out third quarter. It was awesome. Like, Whoa, a different Joel Embiid this half. I feel like we've seen that too many times with him. I don't have, I, when I'm watching the bucks, I'm not worried about which version of Giannis is going to show up for the game. It's just going to be Giannis, right? Same thing with Luca.

I don't like when younger players can kind of come and go depending on what the situation is. And I know with centers, they're probably more prone to male and a half or whatever. I know it fucking sucks to be seven foot three and you're near the basket. Guys are clubbing you from behind. And there's a beating that I would get after a while.

It would probably suck. But sometimes it just doesn't look like he really wants to be out there. And it's just a fact. And then other times he seems happy. Yeah, I try not to put too much into some guys that I know are special and how they've looked. Because we could do a whole thing on the lake.

It's like, what the hell happened to Anthony Davis? Yeah, they are. You would think that it would really matter all of these Sixer games. I mean, Boston was playing hard today and still almost lost to Orlando and had to go to overtime and they had all their guys out there. And I would much rather see a team that's good putting all their guys out there and going,

okay, we, we start the playoffs here in a week. So let's go. And some of these teams are still trying to figure this stuff out. And I go, I'm just a pick. You have to be anybody in the series.

Yeah. Boston should have punted that game today because you know the game that they because they clinched number three i i want all these guys to be healthy but clearly stevens you're not looking at stevens is looking at it like but stevens is looking at it like we don't know who we are yet we need if we need every quarter that's what i like about it yeah i just made sense i like the teams that are going like you said about milwaukee um you know dallas i think knows who they are right now portland actually knows who they are and they have to play their asses off for specific reasons the pacers know who they are i don't know

who knows who they are because they're still playing his own you're the worst player in basketball okay so the one guy in the rotation that doesn't make a lot of sense but i mean the lakers the lakers made it free today the Lakers went with three different rotation guys in that Pacers game. They took Kuzma out. They have Quinn Cook in. I was like, you know what? I've seen him hit big shots for Golden State. The Lakers are at the point where if Quinn Cook was closing playoff games for them,

I wouldn't be shocked. I'm not going to be shocked. I wouldn't be shocked at all. It's like, oh yeah, Quinn clicks. Now they're point card closer. He wasn't even playing two games ago. Yeah. I agree with you. I think.

So that's the back to the Sixers point. Like, what am I supposed to do with the team now? Even if I don't always love the fitness, all the same shit we keep talking about all the time. Now they have no idea who they are. I think it actually is an out for the whole thing to go, Hey,

let's just bring this whole deal back and then see what happens in a normal setting, if it's a normal setting. But it may be a different coach, which a different coach would mean they're definitely not going to change much on the roster because they'd say, okay, we need the right guy to unlock these guys and get it all to work out. And, you know, Simmons,

clearly you're better with Simmons than without. I'm not that dumb. New Orleans is going to have a different coach. Yeah, that didn't work out. The quotes after the game, JJ had a quote where he was basically like, we didn't come out ready to play. Nobody was talking.

Like he sent a piss. Something's wrong with that team. It just, I have no inside info. This is just me reading the tea leaves. That team feels like Ty Lue waiting to happen, Griffin's there. No Griffin's there. He loves Tyloo. He saw what Tyloo can do firsthand. That team needs like an alpha dog. I remember him telling me why he hired Tyloo once where he was just like,

our team needed like somebody with balls to stand up for the broad. Basically we needed, needed a coach who you know was an adult who was going to stand up to the most important player in the league when he had to a couple times a year that New Orleans team seems like they need an adult

because I just can't believe how bad it got on defense after the fact because there's some pieces there. If that roster is healthy, it's a disappointment. If it's a normal season with that roster healthy that has to be a playoff team it's a nice roster what do you do with lonzo he's been pretty bad since he came back pretty bad yeah yeah no terrible um but you know let's let's balance it out with where we felt like it was becoming a feel-good that he'd figured out the shot. He was a guy you had to guard. Now the Lonzo, the real regular season Lonzo versus the bubbles Lonzo or two different guys. Bubba Lonzo is atrocious. I don't

know what happened to that guy. I'm not writing him off, but man, he's, he's been one of the most disappointing players to me. And then I know it's, it's, there's been discourse all over the place. I think everybody has the same reaction. Watch them. Like Zion just looks too big. Yeah. What happened to those Bain photos where he'd lost 25 pounds or put on 25 pounds of muscle? Dude, people have to stop freaking out about internet photos at the right angle or the

wrong angle. He looks too big. He just does. It's like, this is not an opinion. It looks like he's carrying too much weight and I don't think it's sustainable and he's got to get in better shape. And you know, weird times we're in a pandemic. We don't, people don't have gyms. I know he had some personal shit going on, hurt his knee, like he's out of shape, but this is when somebody really seriously gets hurt.

When they're carrying too much weight in their body with the way that he plays, he's going to get like really hurt. They have to monitor that. And if they can't monitor it, um, and control it, he's going to have problems this whole career. I I'm too old. I've seen too many NBA seasons in my life. This guy is going to get hurt unless he gets in shape, the way he plays, the way his body, the amount of pressure he puts on his lower body when he runs and walks, he is not going to stay healthy. He's not. I'll admit, I was watching him shoot free throws the other day and they kind of did a great real artistic here stuff where they did kind of a shot at his feet and then a pan up and the way his knees were turned in just standing there and i went oh my god that looks weird just doesn't look right and i think that leads to why

at certain times, the way he runs around and everything, but their defense sucks. Their defense was so bad when they came back and played. That's the number one thing, but you're right. JJ's comments. And then even Zion had some stuff where I was surprised for a guy that young going like, yeah,

I don't know what's going on here. We're just not really locked in. But Zion's defense has been singularly atrocious in the bubble. And it's a bummer because at Duke, I thought he played really hard on defense. It was conceivable to me that he could be used like Draymond Green as a pro someday in his career because of how hard he played on defense at Duke. And now he doesn't play hard on defense. So either that team, the coach lost the team, or there's something going on with that team or he's not healthy or what's going on. But I, I think it's really disappointing and I know he put up points, but whatever I did, this is why I have two eyes and I've been watching basketball my whole life. Something's not right with that team and with him and they got to figure it out.

He's got to come in whenever the season starts next year, that dude cannot be at the weight. He's at now period. Yeah. And just think everybody lost their minds we saw that photo of him everybody was like look at him oh my gosh like he put in the work and then the ball they roll the balls out you go what happened i mean it happens remember fat derrick jeter i thought we thought eddie lacy one time was 300 pounds because the internet internet. I'm serious. Right. There's some angles of me that aren't flattering, believe it or not, Bill. I have a couple more small points for,

oh, we got to talk about Portland. We didn't get to that yet. All right, you do your Portland thing because I have a Paul George thing after it, okay? Because it ties in perfectly. Well, I've talked about Portland for the last two weeks in the pod. I have nothing else to add on them other than I love that Dame Lillard is one of the last ties to the seventies and eighties. This guy who has

really kind of pissy relationships with other stars. He's like the one outlier. He really doesn't like Westbrook. Like you could feel it in the, why should he, why should Westbrook dis him all the time in games? Yeah. In games, he's always been an asshole. And then this Paul George Beverly thing and the little aftermath of that, that was kind of unbelievable with those guys taking shots. And then he telling Paul George,

I'm just, I'm just here doing work. You just keep running away from that grind. That's like the ultimate NBA insult. When the going gets tough, you get going to your next team. I stay here at my team and we're winning. I loved it. I loved it.

I'm all in on Dame in Portland. I loved it. Um, because he went to Paul George. All right. Cause we're going to do a little Paul George history lesson here. Yeah. And we all know Paul George, incredibly talented guy. Everybody would want him.

You give him max money. I don't ever like to say about anybody that person's incapable of winning a title because I think it's very dismissive. I think it's easy to say and the odds are in your favor to say that because it is that hard to

win a title. And look, he may win one this year, but it's going to be Kawhi or maybe George has this epic run. But this dude hasn't been out of the first round since 2014. Let's go backwards.

Lost in the first round of Portland last year, by the way, who put him away? Lillard, that jumper and George, although it wasn't, but he's like, well, it's a bad shot. And you just go like, and if you go over the record of George's quotes at times about some things, you're like, what are you talking about? All right. So they lose in the first round of Portland. He did put up some big numbers, lost in the first round of Utah game six. He played 45 minutes. He and Westbrook lost to Utah who really only had Donovan Mitchell as a rookie, as a rookie and Paul George in game six, 45 minutes, five points, two is 16, three boards. Okay. Wasn't he hurt or like a little bit hurt? I think it was a tiny bit hurt. Actually, I forgot that rule was passed a couple years ago that anybody that has like 30 in game six and then has less games in game seven it's because they were hurt somewhere so like hey i was tired you're averaging

38 a game yeah we're out there right that's exactly when i got tired though was the next one all right so you're at 2000 2017 swept in the first round against cleveland game four elimination game 15 points five of 21. He fell down on the last possession. I'm not going to get knock them for not tying or hitting a game tying three in game four, 2016. Um, they lost in seven games to Toronto. Right. He had 26, but he finished the game two of eight. He had a turnover, then missed a three. And then after the game said, Hey, I'm really tired. So there you go. And he's like, then missed a three. And then after the game said, Hey, I'm really tired. So there you go. And he's like, I'm not Superman. Uh, Eastern conference finals,

2014, he put up big numbers, Eastern conference finals game seven, 2013. He had seven points in game seven, 2013, first round game six. It was a clinching game the same year, but he had four points against Atlanta. I'm not going to use 12 and 11 against him because in 11, he was the seventh leading scorer in the Pacers and 12, he was the fourth leading scorer. The point is this. If you're going to come at Dame Lillard, have a slightly better playoff resume than what I just read you. You haven't been out of the first round since 2014, and there is a trend that you disappear

in some of these massive games throughout your playoff career. He's an extremely talented guy, but Dame, who doesn't exactly have a massive playoff resume himself, is the guy that eliminated last year and at least shows up in some of these massive games. And who brought a team to a Western finals that didn't have Nurkic. And when you see how important Nurkic is this year, it's kind of amazing. They made the Western finals with Adam because you could argue he's the second most valuable player in this year's team.

Yeah. Cause when you really realize how bad they were when golden state without Durant, like golden state almost wanted to lose one of those games. And then it was like, Oh, I guess why don't we just take care of this now and get it over with. They made,

they made the Western finals without, uh, the witch Gary Trent. My friend Hedge calls Gary Trent, the witch. He thinks he's a witch. Cause he, cause he's made 28 threes in five games. He's like something, something mystical is happening here. It's like, Oh, the witch, the witch is hitting threes again. Uh, but he had Gary Trent turned into a witch. They rejuvenated mellow and Nurkic came back.

Those are three guys they didn't have last year in the Western finals. And they're three of their best six guys. I mean, they had canter last year, not having to play white side, by the way, is a big deal. Yeah. But you know what, with white side, when they play the Lakers, they're going to need white side. If they, if they end up in that series, they're going to have all these fouls that they're going to have to throw at Davis, right? They're just going to try to wear them down. You're you're going to need you more than 30 minutes with nurkic is probably unrealistic because i think he will get in foul trouble um they're gonna need white side is my point yeah i'm not a white side but i right i just i'm horrified of the idea of white side having to make

the decision on a drive lob against a ball handler with those guys. Cause he's going to be like, well, how do I, does it count as a block with white side? You probably just try to try to put them against white Howard as much as you can. Right. And then just neutralize each other. But that would be, that would be the, you're right though.

That would be the assignment, even though the JaVale stuff has been a little weird, but you know, that's, that's not what I'm going to freak out about. Like, Oh, the Lakers and JaVale is not as good.

The whole point would be to keep their bodies away. Like, don't let these guys get free rim runs on a LeBron drive. Cause that's not what I'm going to freak out about. Like, Oh, the Lakers and JaVale is not as good. The whole point would be to keep their bodies away. Like, don't let these guys get free rim runs on a LeBron drive. Cause that's where JaVale and Dwight have had this incredible resurgence because of those plays. But can I defend a Patrick Beverly? I didn't go at Patrick Beverly. You want to know why?

Cause I actually like respect him more. I like Patrick Beverly. I felt like Patrick Beverly was on brand and I liked that. He yelled Dame time after the tube, the two free throw misses were a choke. Like we're massive. Yeah. I mean, that's lower deserves to get that. If you're going to walk the walk as a super duper star, you got to come through in the end.

I liked that. Beverly stayed true to character. Beverly feeds with everybody. That's who he is. When Paul George starts yapping, I had the same reaction as you. It's like, why are you in this? Where did you come from? That was really bad. I thought that was the

worst loss of the bubble. The Lakers because they'd be playing Portland. Clippers clearly were tanking to get Portland in there to mess with the Lakers. They finished with a group. Paul George played in that game. Kawhi was already resting. Beverly was out. But then they sat Paul George the last 18 minutes. They didn't play him.

The closing group, at one point, it was Morris. Then they took him out for Patrick Patterson. Magruder was out there. Magruber was out there. Terrence Mann was out there mixing it up with dudes. Schammett, they let stay out there. And then Portland still gives the game away. Considering everything was on the line,

and it looked like the Clippers were trying to lose. I thought that's the worst loss I've seen so far. Doc screwed up because he had joking Noah sitting there. If you're, if you're really trying to like secretly stealth tank the game, you've got to bring Noah in for the last five minutes and run some like high screens of them. Like run to Joaquin,

come out, screen and roll. No no you're the pop you're yeah or whatever for three you've got to get no involved because it was clear what they were trying to do and you know that was i thought portland looked tired in that game i and i unfortunately wagered on them and then came fighting back with the suns over miami to win the money back but um did you get that at four and a half or three? Cause somebody asked me Portland. Cause it was just a tough to four. Yeah.

Right. Because it was like Kawhi. Once they sat Kawhi, everybody was like, Oh, they're, they're throwing this game. Cause they want Portland to play the Lakers.

And by the way, that's fucking smart. They should want to do that. Cause if Portland plays the Lakers, that could be a six or seven game series in round one. And you're just putting miles on LeBron. And I think we're already seeing in the bubble, like these T these guys are getting worn out. It's hard. They're playing every other day. The times are weird. There no game is ever at the same time you're playing at one o'clock. You're playing at three. You're playing Celtics

played at nine on Friday night. All these things are all over the map. And, uh, you know, if they can put those miles on the lakers good for them okay but counterpoint to that you're not on a flight for three plus months you basically are covering how much like you have to walk to work or there's a shuttle i just think it takes you i just think it's abnormal i think that i think it may be abnormal your normal experience for these guys. That's fine. But I mean, if you're tired now,

uh, the conditions are not normal, but I would think this is, you're going to stay way fresher in this condensed thing. Um, you don't think Portland Portland's been basically now played six playoff games. That I'll concede. There's an intensity to the games they're playing that's

different than everybody else in the bubble. And I think Phoenix to some degree too. Yeah, but some teams, like Philadelphia played hard not because the fit was better post Simmons and Embiid. They played hard because Josh Richards was like, alright, now I got shots. Orlando didn't have Gordon, Isaac,

Michael Carter-Williams, or Fournier against the Celtics and took them to overtime. Tatum had to hit a three and a two just to get to overtime. You want to know why? Because the rest of those guys wanted to play their asses off in a real game and prove something. So that is something that consistently keeps happening too. It's like the bullets.

As teams are trying to figure out closing groups or even decisions next year, this has almost become like NFL preseason for some of these rosters. And you're, you're running into some teams playing really hard because of desperation, not even based on what their playoff chances are desperation for their own careers. I have one last important thing. I've enjoyed the fact that mellow has been redeemed as at least a player for a station guy and who brings stuff to the table.

Like he, you know, he can box out, he can hit open shots when he's trying to post up Bible. That's when it gets a little dicey or it's like, you're not winning this Carmelo. Um, but he's a nine man rotation guy still. And I think it's cool. Cause he was out of the league and it's pretty unusual. We've seen these guys kind of be out of the league and it's pretty unusual. We've seen these guys kind of be out of the league, but then come back like T Mac on the Spurs, that kind of stuff.

These guys, these guys, Oh no, no, he's going to play. And then they never play. This is a case where they actually needed him and he's actually playing. And there's not a lot of examples in NBA history of a belated rejuvenation like this. Yeah, you're right. I love it. I'm happy for him. And they do need him at times because he's going to be a guy in a big spot in the first round.

And this is something you've said for years where he doesn't look at LeBron as a guy that he can't hit a shot in his face. Well, that'd be the irony, right? That Portland Lakers series, Carmelo, the Lakers could have signed him for how many months there and they just weren't interested for whatever reason lebron has i don't think it's even sneaky ben not interested in mellow but remember i remember i got in trouble at espn because

somebody had said oh there's some talk about kevin love for mellow and i checked on it and i i think it was off that day and i tweeted out like hey this isn't happening yeah i knew it wasn't like i had it was like this isn't happening and then i got a call from the news desk and it was like our reporters work so hard i'm like i know they do but like you have a guy on tv screaming that they're going to trade kevin love for mellow and i just felt like i'll send a tweet saying that's definitely not going to happen because it was more of if mellow wants to do a buyout and come to cleveland yeah you can do that but you know what we're not doing is trading kevin love for him let's quickly mention lebron's uh struggling with the no fans thing how quick because i know this bothered you.

It's always something. I think he's the second or third best player ever. He's the one person in the whole league who's having trouble without the fans. Not a problem for anybody else, but for this guy, who's one of the three best sports of all time, it's like, yeah, you know, it's been hard to deal with. Like just admit you have a weird team right now and you're not a lock to win the NBA title. Like you thought you were in March, like stop with the, every time it's an excuse. This is the roster you picked. You convinced your team to trade basically everything for Anthony Davis. You thought you're not anti that, right?

No, I'm not. We were sitting here, right? He, he picked, he bought the house. He picked all the furniture and now he's in the house and that's it. You can't be like, ah, it's just been weird. I got to get used to it. That's the fans. It's like, this is your team.

You knew it was going to be a little weird. You knew you're going to be relying on Danny green and Kyle Kuzma. You knew it was going to be hodgepodge with your backcourt dudes and that there is a chance in, you know, right before the playoff started that you might be looking at Quinn cook and going, all right,

I guess you're, I guess it's you. Like, this is what happens when you go all in for the Anthony Davis trade. Like you're going to lose out on some other things. You have a new coach, but it didn't look this bad though before is, is the weird part. So all the things you're saying are right, but yet none of that would have been some counterpoint to what they were doing because they were rolling and

towards the end, you know, that Milwaukee win, they won a few games. I know they'd lost the last game against the nets. Bradley and Rondo were, were a little more important than I think people realized. And even, you know, I think people, people have gone glass half empty with Bradley for a while, including me, but he brought some stuff to the table that they're going to need in the playoffs. He has the ability to guard people like Dame Lillard and at least like

make them work a little bit. They don't have anybody like that now. So are you saying that comment is kind of hand cast light. I have a new topic for you. By the way, Lakers, just to put it in, I'll leave you with this. Celtics and Portland are number one

and number two bubble offenses right now. Boston's 121 points per 100 possessions. That's an insane number. It's like six better than Milwaukee. They put up 149 against Brooklyn. Right.

So it's a little skewed here. So we could do all small sample size all we want. 121's a massive number. You never sustain that the whole time. Lakers are at 98 points per 100 possessions. Well, and that was why they sat LeBron on Thursday night. I think they wanted to try all these different lineups and see, because they're having so much trouble when he wasn't in the game.

I have another topic for you. DeMar DeRozan, the Alex Smith of two guards. That's coming up next. No, you can't. You can't give it away, though. You're like, if Alex Smith played in the NBA and

was traded a lot and people said he's kind of overrated, but he was underrated, who would he be? That's next. Well, but I'm not throwing her next. I'm just throwing it to you right now. DeBard Rosen, the Alex Smith of two guards. Explain. You go 10 and six, 11 and five with him.

You never feel great about it. He's better than a lot of the options you might have. You don't really want to admit it. You always feel like there's somebody better coming down the pike, but then, you know, the Rosen, who is not a, not a lot of fans in the advanced metrics community. No, no. They'll bring up some plus minus that will bring up plus minus stuff. They'll talk about how it can't shoot threes and this and that.

And then you watch these games in the last five minutes. He's just putting up two, two, two, uh, his team's now up three, uh, one more basket.

They went up. He just got another 15 footer. The game's over. And it's like, all right, well, are there advanced metric stats for that? That when this guy has the ball,

when he's up three, he can create a 15 footer and make it, which gives him something in common with like 12 guys in the league. I, I think sometimes we do this thing with basketball players where we're either all out or we're all in and there's no in between. And like the Rosa brings good stuff to the table. I don't think you're in bad shape if he's on your team and people make it seem like but this is why i said alex smith alex smith there's another one it's like it was like oh man they gotta do better than alex smith it's like well they just went 12 and four he can't be all that bad i'm done you could start bad finish i'll tell you why if you were the alex smith if you were the alex smith what he would do you'd be down three, five seconds left,

and Smith would pull up from two, make it. You'd lose by one. But you covered. But Smith would be like, fucking made it. Still made it. Alex Smith, if you really want to dig in and do the Alex Smith thing, and I've never been an Alex Smith guy. He's only been benched almost every time he's gone somewhere.

And I know everybody loves him now. And what he had to go through. This is an entire side. But if we're just talking about the player himself it was there were numbers that is whatever you needed to throw to the third down marker for alex smith he'd be last and then he had a weird run where he actually started throwing the ball down the field more which was kind of like oh that's a little surprising but i don't think it's a mistake when went out when when harbaugh was like i'm going to kaepernick here because they kicked a million field goals that year where the san francisco team was pretty good but um i'm now doing my alex smith segment

that i've done a million times on the radio so i guess i'm i get your argument but i'm just trying to make a point at the end of it so i'm'm going to just be Alex Smith's last five years in the chiefs. He was 50 and 26. Cool. And they drafted a quarterback in the first round. Yeah. Okay. Cause they knew.

I'm just saying the Rosen, if he's your two guard, people are like, how the fuck are the, are the Spurs? How are they doing this? How are they still alive? It's like, well, they, they're very well coached they have a bunch of guys who know what they're doing and at the end of the game the rosen can get them two points and that's why they keep hanging around and beating these teams i might even do it alex i got you i got your back to rosen i don't think you're that bad i don't care what the nerds say I got one more topic for you. Did Magic Johnson taking Lonzo over Tatum make up for the

junior skyhook in 1987? That junior skyhook gives me nightmares, not because of the game, but because then my father did it to me in our one-on-one battles for about three years after he used to stick that elbow right in my head and the throat. And it wasn't fun to deal with because he's six, five. I used to get so mad. I'd want to start punching him. So that specific hook shot is, is haunting to me. You could make a case. They would have lost that finals. Anyway, there were still two more games in LA. If Boston wins that game, it's still two, two game fives in Boston. The last two are in LA. If magic takes Lonzo over Tatum, which he did,

and the Celtics are able to do the flip trade, get Tatum. Um, now we have 15 years of Tatum. I would trade the junior sky hook for Tatum is my point. Were you saying 15 years of Tatum are you saying years of tatum yeah now you want 15 years of tatum instead of that miss yeah and by the way you're down playing that the celtics probably still lose they probably were gonna lose uh they were gonna lose that's what i mean they're gonna lose yeah yeah so yeah i'm cool with it i mean it doesn't bother me as much as it does you i just didn't really like playing my dad back then that much well you you

know it's tough for you because not having the fans there you'd had the fans your whole life no but lebron had he did have another quote i don't know i think it was somebody from the athletic where he he had said you know there's some other things that are going on right off the court, but I'm not going to get into those. You're like, dude, you just brought it up. And then I think this writer has a really good relationship with LeBron. And he said he wrote down, he actually was in the story. Was it Joe Varden?

I think it was. I hate when I get it wrong and then I don't want to not credit somebody. I thought it was Joe Varden. Yeah. And the writer said he went up to LeBron and wrote down what he thought he was speculating. And he wrote it down on a piece of paper and showed it to LeBron. It was like, Hey, is this what you're talking about? And he said, LeBron shook his head. So big mystery, but Hey, LeBron's a very theatrical guy. Okay. He,

I've said this for 20 years now about him almost 20 years. He is a theatrical guy. He, he plays up to the audience. And so, you know, he's adding a little mystery to the whole thing. I, I narrowed it down to two things that he was upset about one. Dion writers. Has anyone made it a full year with Dwight Howard without being like, Jesus Christ, I got to get away from this guy. Cause they're now how many months now with Dwight dating, going back to October, they get a break for four months. Now they're in the bubble with them. He is Dwight Howard. He's he's had more T more teammates have turned on him over the last 12 years than anybody else

in the recent history of the leagues. That was, that was one instinct I had. And then the other one was, I was wondering if he was lobbying lobbying uh avery bradley to come back that's not a terrible theory on the second one at all yeah because what if they struggle and bradley goes you know what maybe i can go down now maybe you treat it like nfl preseason one i know bradley had some stuff with the family and some health concerns there. And I was never criticizing Bradley for not coming down. Me neither. But it's now been six weeks later. Maybe Bradley's looking at it.

And I'm sure they've... Put it this way. I'm sure they've kept in touch with him. Because you can always change your mind and go into the bubble. Yeah. I mean, you're not doing your job if you're not checking in and saying, hey, are you watching the games or whatever? And it's kind of like a weird thing but i don't know

his personality well enough to be like can you get on the phone with him or is he turned off by the idea like hey i said what i said and so that means i'm not going to ever come down there the dwight theory though i love i'd like to play with this for a little bit thank you do you think do you think dwight shows up and like all the guys are leaving the taco place and dwight's like oh we thought we told you 5 30 yeah what you guys are changing to 4 30 did you get the and dwight's like oh we thought we told you 5 30 yeah what you guys are changing to 4 30 did you get the text dwight's talking to his buddies he's like i keep missing the meals i think i have i think there's a set there's two text chains there's a team text chain and then there's another one that dwight's not on where they're like all right who's hanging out dwight

today uh kuzma you're up you just gotta you gotta go play ping pong with them for like an hour i couldn't stand the irony of malika andrew's bubble story right when everybody first got there on espn.com and i'd interviewed her about it and i guess so there was a dj and there were lights and everything was going and it was kind of dead and the only guy that showed up was Dwight. Look, Dwight has a history of this. Teammates get tired of him. Nobody.

This is like when I was writing my book, you read these old sports illustrated and you read these different books and there's just certain guys that there's just a shitload of quotes about them from people that either played with them or played against them. And they're just all murdering the guy. Like Rick Barry was like that. You could go find a million negative Rick Barry quotes. Wilt Chamberlain was another one. Walt Bellamy. Um, you go into the seventies, like Spencer Haywood, that was a guy that, you know, got torched by everybody, so on and so on. And Dwight was just one of those guys for the last 12 years.

Have you heard about anything that's going on? Because I have not. I thought when the stitch line was like a big deal for 48 hours, and it kind of went away, and you heard people were calling it, and then it's turned into leaders of teams are going to Adam Silver right and i was wondering he's gotta love that yeah because that's the deal i guess is he wants everyone to call him directly which is really saying something wait yeah what does he really that's well good challenge on your part uh what is the wrong word he wants people to think he's that accessible but he probably doesn't enjoy all of it that must be brutal imagine he's like who he played for and he's like what he's like gabriel who what team you on banga's on the banga's on the phone for you adam

he's got some thoughts about the wizards he wanted he has a question about the thread count on the sheets like well they're they're not gonna be in the bubble long um i uh i want i can't i hope it happens but i really hope somebody does five years from now a remove here's some of the shit that was going down and some of the arguments and some of the clicks and some of the fighting the tampering thing is like people that are going oh man this is really going to lead to tampering unless you you're going to outlaw phones. It's just, it's, I know Draymond says it on TV. The league has to find him 50 grand for saying what he said about Booker

having to get the hell out of Phoenix. But people that spend time complaining about player on player tampering is just fine. Better battles because that one's pointless. With that said, Draymond had to know news getting fined when he did that booker thing. I think it was intentional. And by the way,

I watched the whole Draymond thing. I thought he was great. Like he's definitely a future TV guy. No, he's perfect. I think he's yeah. I used to feel this way about Barkley in the nineties and even wrote about it on my website that barely anybody read at that point. But it was like Barkley was clearly the next guy and it was going to be amazing. Oh my God. I can't wait, wait till he's a TV guy. And I feel that way about Draymond. I think he's going to be amazing if he actually commits to it. I think he'll start fights constantly and say stuff and do it the right way. Like I, the way Perkins is doing it right now is maybe a path I would not advise. But, um, I think with Draymond, I liked the way he interplayed with Kenny and Charles. Like he was doing some advanced TV stuff.

Even like, Oh, he was, he was so comfortable, man. He beat Kenny to the big picture thing. He sprinted and beat him. Like he, it was just like he had done it for 10 years.

I was really impressed. Yeah. Very, very impressed with him. Perkins. He's just yells at me every day and I don't know what to do about it. I can't tell if it's a bit with him or not. I don't, I don't think so. I can't tell if it's a bit with him or not. I don't think so.

Does he really believe everything he's saying though? You know, it's weird about the TV business as the ex-athlete. Because, you know, Perk's not a star. But Perk, kind of like the Rasheed Wallace. When I first started asking about Rasheed and every teammate would tell you how much they loved Rasheed.

When Monty McCutcheon was on the pod, I go, which player did you not like to officiate? He goes, Rashid, but it wasn't because he was always getting technicals. He knew the rule book better than all of us. I'm like, Rashid did? He goes, Rashid was one of the smartest guys I've ever officiated. Rashid knew the rule book inside and out. And I've always heard these great things about Rashid as a teammate. And I've heard the same things about Perkins. I would not say about the officiating part of it, but as far as teammates loving him. And so that's always an important thing to me. But when you first get to, and I think you're going to agree with me, when you first get to an ESPN and you stand out by saying a ton of stuff, and sometimes it's crazy shit too, that's the best way to win early. But if you want to do it for 10 years,

sometimes you can burn really bright and then people can be like, wait, does he always really believe it? But shit, I haven't thought Skip Bayless believed a thing he said in a decade. It's worked out fine for him. And I did a couple hits with Perk before I had left ESPN

and I really, really liked him. And I talked to him for a little bit. I really like him too because when he does the Celtic games, he doesn't do it. So that's why I think it's shtick on ESPN and I really, really liked him. And I talked to him for a little bit. I really like him too because when he does the Celtic games, he doesn't do it. So that's why I think it's schtick on ESPN. Because in the Celtic games, he's way more thoughtful. I think he's definitely playing a character on the ESPN stuff.

And it plays early because it gets you noticed. It does. And I've seen some analysts that came in and maybe had one or two years and things didn't really go their way. And then year three, they're like, all right,

it's on. And they just start saying outlandish stuff. And sometimes it works. And then sometimes it can kind of burn. It burns out a little bit, you know, cause it's like too much every single, and I'm not saying perks necessarily doing that,

but, um, you know, somebody who sat at all these desks with all these different people, it's something I definitely always watch or think about. Well, I thought, even though we didn't have fans tonight, I thought you did a great job, and I thought your energy was really high. I feel great, and I could tape another one.

I could do a rewatchable right now on anything. Name it. We have Last of the Mohicans coming tomorrow. Sorry you missed that one. That's okay. I'll pass on that one. You passed that one? Alright. Am I out of the rewatchables rotation now? Because I'm worried about minutes.

You're not out of it. That's alright. You have two podcasts coming this week. I do. I don't have a guess for either one yet. I have two more coming this week. And we will see you next Sunday. Um, Oh,

before we go, I do, I want to do this quickly. You know how I was upset about how I had to hand in my award bout early. Yes. And my MVP early. And I was like, fuck that sucked.

Um, I would have the same first team. I would have the same second team, third team. I, this is same second team. Third team. This is why you don't hand in the ballot early. Ben Simmons was barely my third team guard, but now he wouldn't be because he got hurt. And I would have Booker or Lowry in there.

Who would you have? Booker or Lowry? Third team all NBA. It's Lowry. He's a better team. He's the best player in a really good team. Yeah. So I feel bad.

I can't change that now, but I'll have my final picks next week, next week. So this bubble season ends Friday. And then, uh, and then we head to the bubble playoffs. So when we come back on Sunday night, we will have, we'll, we'll just be into it.

We'll be doing our whole, uh, whole playoff thing. I don't, do you know what day the playoff starts? I guess we'd have the double elimination games right so the bubble stuff ends Friday and then we'll have the double elimination game

whatever that is I guess on Sunday night so maybe our next podcast will be right after that so we'll see you next Sunday night Rasil and I good to see you as always

alright thanks buddy alright thanks to Spotify thanks to Rasil don't forget to check out CBS All Access and thanks to Home Depot Thanks to Resilo. Don't forget to check out CBS All Access. And thanks to Home Depot. With the Home Depot, decorating your home is now easier than ever before. Free delivery on select items, $45 or more. Good deal. And now for a limited time, you get 10% off the styles you love when you use code Billsimmons1010 at checkout.

Valid on select items online only. Bill Simmons 10. Find exactly what you're looking for and more at homedepot.com slash decor. Rewatchables is coming Monday night. Last of the Mohicans. Two more podcasts here this week on the BS pod, including a surprise guest. There's a celebrity that you wouldn't expect would be on this podcast, but when you listen to it, you're going to be glad he was.

That's all coming up. Two more this week. Enjoy the start of your week. Stay safe out there. I don't have feelings within on the wayside I'm a bruised soul I never said I don't have

feelings within