The Bill Simmons Podcast - Matt James on ‘The Bachelor’ Behind the Scenes, Plus Joe House on Desperate NBA Teams and March Madness

Episode Date: March 19, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Matt James of ‘The Bachelor’ franchise to discuss his season, expectations vs. reality, dealing with real feelings during a public controversy, being "unplugged" from media and sports while filming, getting back to life after ‘The Bachelor’ and more (2:30). Then Bill talks with Joe House about teams that may be desperate for a trade with the NBA trade deadline approaching, House’s revised NBA MVP bets, the NCAA tournament, Ryan Fitzpatrick to the Washington Football Team, the upcoming Masters Tournament, and more (51:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Coming up, Matt James, who just finished quite a bachelor season. We're going to be breaking down all of it with him. He was very gracious with his time. And then Joe House talking NBA and college basketball and masters and a whole bunch of other stuff. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right.

This guy was a hard man to book. He's not doing a lot of media. Matt James, he was just a bachelor. My agent, James Babydoll Dixon, is a longtime family friend of yours. That's really the only reason you're coming on. You became the first bachelor or bachelorette who was just like, you did the After the Rose and you were out. That was it. How did you pull that off? I thought you had to do all this stuff after the season ended. Right. I think when the season ends on a lighter note, you kind of make that tour and

kind of celebrate that relationship. But it was a different type of conversation, I guess, this time following that for the front row. Well, how are you doing? How are you holding up? You had about as traumatic of a bachelor experience as I think anybody could have had. And I was honestly worried about you by the end. How are you feeling these days? You know, I'm wearing all my emotion on my beard right now. To be honest with you, being in that environment, it felt like I was in therapy because they're constantly asking, like,

how are you feeling? It's like, good isn't an answer. You have to give a more in-depth, like you're forced to really tap into what you're feeling and being away from that, I haven't really had that platform or that release to talk about how I'm feeling. I tweeted something the other day.

I'm like, I'm Googling a therapist because I need therapy. I need to talk to somebody to get it out. I'm good though. I'm good. Because you're a pretty good natured Normal guy Heading into this right You're going in

Easy going Seemed like it would be fun You do your thing Maybe you fall In love with one person Two people You got to figure it out And then it's going to end

In a good way You leave You're single again You have a James Harden beard going This is not how you envisioned this Yeah I don't think that And you have a James Harden beard going. This is not how you envisioned this. Yeah, I don't think that you could have written it any... The way that they play out, they happen for a reason. And for it to end like this, I would have never foreshadowed it.

And I think a lot of it was how naive I was going into it. I had never been on another dating show. I'd never been on TV before. So I was very green and, uh, you know, as things start to roll out, uh, life hits you fast. So, so is this one of those things early on? You're like, Holy shit, why did I do this? Or was that like a gradual thing? Like, like at what point did you realize this was a lot to bite off? You know, I didn't realize that until after everything's filmed. Because when you're in that bubble, Bill, it's incredible. You don't have your phone.

You don't have a computer. You're completely tapped out of what's going on, which really allows you to like foster these relationships with women that, you know, in reality, your friends or family would have something to say about it. And when you get out of that bubble and you're reintroduced to all these distractions and people's opinions, then it started to get difficult. Dude, how much of the, you know, you're talking to the producers, right? And they're doing the interviews and they're trying to nudge you certain ways, right? So basically, those are the only people you get to talk to.

You know what? It's funny you say that because when I that because I got there a month early. So I had relationships with people on campus that people didn't know about. So I'd see a grounds person. I'd see a manager. I'd see someone who worked in the kitchen. And I longed for those conversations because there was no bias. I'm chopping it up with the chef.

I'm like, what do you think I should do about this? People have no idea. I'm chopping it up with someone in the kitchen about a super important decision. They're like, bro, you should do this. I'm like, all right, boom. Then I'm going out for a rose ceremony. So yeah. Is that what you were leaning on? Like the valet? You look for unbiased advice because you want make sure that that you're doing the right thing and it's in your best interest and someone who's not a part of the show uh is gonna have an unbiased opinion on what you should do and i was seeking those type of things you know tyler came visiting me during the show so i had great conversations with him and he's not going to steer me in the

wrong direction uh well the funny thing about that, cause I know how close you and Tyler are. So he comes, but they have to have you interact with these awkward bachelor. Like, Hey guys, uh, what if you guys played some pool?

Uh, Hey Matt, can you Chuck, Chuck the steak maybe? And then look, look over at Tyler and look confused. Like it just was not the way you guys, I'm sure, would normally interact. Absolutely not.

You know, we'd be ragging on each other, Tyler. We'd probably be playing video games, doing something outdoors. But just seeing him was just what I needed. Because, you know, at that point, I'm like, I don't know who to trust. I'm like, I need to see someone who knows me. And who better than, like, one of my best friends. So that was therapeutic having him there. Well, he's the reason you went on, right?

You kind of followed his whole experience and he had a really positive experience, I think. You know what? I was, I was against going on until his mom nominated me. His mom nominated me for the show and she, she saw how much it meant to Tyler and his development as a man, his communication skills. I'm like, you know what, Ms. Cameron? I'm going to do that. And here I am.

You're not a guy who probably has a lot of trouble finding women, though. So you're going on this show. Ultimately, what's your reason for going on this show? What are you trying to accomplish? Because you're doing a lot of good stuff in your personal life and are you trying to raise exposure for all the great stuff you're doing on that front? Or if you had to do a pie chart, what was it? You know what, Bill? It gets back to me as being

intentional with my time. And before I got on the show, I'm putting my life into commercial real estate. I'm putting my life into everything I'm doing with my nonprofit. And I didn't put any time into a relationship or any time in the dating because there was distractions, there's work, there's events, everything going on that people make excuses for is what I was doing. I lived in New York for almost four years and I could count on one hand the amount of dates I've been on. I was just so focused and locked in on just like this rat race, this New York City.

And then getting out and being back in Pennsylvania was just like, I couldn't imagine a better place to fall in love and just foster a relationship because there's no internet there's no people it's just like you're focused on getting to know each other without the bliss and glamour and the BS so that first night you get you get there and you have you have to talk with Chris right where you you have you're like you know, I don't know who I'm going to end up with here. And somehow Chris is the guy that you have to talk to. Like, is that orchestrated by the show? Did you really need to talk to somebody? Was there a better, like, why didn't they have your mom do it?

I was confused by that. You know what? I don't think anyone knew how to handle it because I hadn't gone on the show before. I hadn't been on, you know, they typically have the bachelorette that goes on to the bachelor or the bachelor goes on to the bachelorette. So I think that everyone's just trying to figure it out

as we're going. And as it played out, I don't think anything could prepare me for what I was going to step into. So that was something you were really struggling with. You needed somebody to talk to. Yeah, I needed someone to talk to, you know, because I don't have my phone. I'm not a text or tweet or DM away from a buddy being like, Hey, I need to talk to you. And everyone I'm talking

to is giving me sound advice, but I'm like, I don't really know you because we just met a month ago due to all the COVID and like how we're doing zoom interviews. Like you don't really know these people. So you're, you're, you're So you're making sure that you're proceeding with caution. Yeah, because, you know, I mean, this season was awkwardly handled. It's a show that's run by older white people, right? So there was moments in this where, and I mean, the most egregious was probably

when your dad came where it was, you know, that obviously you have a pretty tenuous relationship with them and he comes in and I'm watching this stuff from afar going, are they doing this because it's the black bachelor season and they feel like they have to check these boxes. How much input did you have with that stuff? You know what? They, they did give me that decency. They asked if he wanted, if I wanted him to come. And I'm like, absolutely. But at this point, Bill, I'm spilling my heart to everybody.

I'm like, there's nothing that's going to be secret about my life after this experience. So why not bring him into it and use this as a chance to mend our relationship? And I had my mom reach out to him. I'm like, let dad know that this isn't going to be a kumbaya. We're not going to be roasting s'mores by the fire. And, you know, unfortunately, I don't think he was trying to hear that at the time. So when he got there, he didn't really understand the context of our conversation, which is frustrating because, you know, that, that was kind of their relationship in a nutshell, like lack of

communication and him not really being receptive to the things that she's trying to tell him, which is ultimately trying to help him. And it did lead to a positive outcome because I have a great relationship with him moving forward. But that was tough. That was a tough conversation. Yeah. It seemed like it ended in the right place. I just wasn't sure if that was a conversation that should have happened on TV. I hear you. And after we had that conversation, it was emotional. It was heated. It was a lot of back and forth. And I didn't know how that would place into the programming because of how raw it was. The last thing I wanted to do was perpetuate stereotypes about black males, the relationship he had with me as a father and

people who don't have full context of our relationship and what's going on. But ultimately, I'm not in that editing room. I'm just living this experience out as it's going. And it led to me and my dad fostering our relationship and him reaching back out to my brother. So I try to find the good through the craziness. Yeah. It landed in a really authentic place, which I thought was, it was a strange experience to watch because initially I was like, oh, why are they doing this? Yeah. And then where it went, it was actually like for a show where you never know what's real

and not real and what's manufactured, how they're editing it. It seemed pretty authentic and it seemed genuine and it seemed like it was something that had a real impact on you. Yeah, it did. And there was a lot of conversations like that. And it's unfortunate that a lot of that was overshadowed by some of the drama that was going on during the season because we're at the end of the season and no one knows anything about me.

And I'm like, I've been telling these women everything about me. They know me. They know why I tick the way I do, why this and that's important. But the viewer didn't. So that part was a little bit frustrating. But all you can do is try to be a good person. And that's what I try to do throughout the season.

The first couple episodes, I don't know how many days in real time that is, but do you have a feeling like you kind of know who the two or three are going to be pretty soon, pretty early? You would think that. It's like, okay, I've got my eye on XYZ. But you really don't know until you get to spend that one-on-one time with somebody.

Like when I had that one-on-one with Michelle right after she got there, I learned so much more about her than anybody I had known that three weeks prior. So our relationship had just skyrocketed that much leaps and bounds in front of people who I had been interacting with for three weeks. So you really needed that one-on-one time to build and see if there was something there because it was either your relationship was either going to be going trending towards a marriage proposal or it was going to be like, you know what, we're not compatible. And that's best for both people. If when you figure that out, they go their separate way and you go yours.

You almost need like a friend date in there where you have like one of the girls is just a friend. You're not actually going to pick her, but you can just talk about everybody else for seven hours. You know what? You know what, Bill? There were women. And I think that we both realized about each other

that we just confided in one another. And they probably knew they weren't my person. And I think that we both realized about each other that we just confided in one another and they probably knew they weren't my person and I knew I wasn't their person but just having them around

was a comfort thing and well it seemed like the one who ends up who's going to be the bachelorette what's her name Katie?

I can't remember Katie? yeah it seemed like you had that relationship with her like she was kind of more of a friend than somebody you were actually going to end up with. See, that's a perfect example, Bill.

You're like, would you know right away? And Katie came in hot. She came in waving the lightsaber. And I'm like, I've never been approached like that before. But as I got to know Katie and how unapologetically she was herself and she didn't care about everything else going on, I respected that about her. And I'm like, that's something I can build a relationship on. And unfortunately, it didn't work out, but it's obviously worked out well for her.

And I hope that she finds that as the bachelor. I'm stoked for it. So you get to the end. You end up picking Rachel, but you're also struggling. You're realizing I'm not going to be proposing to somebody at the end of the show, which seemed like, I don't know if that was your goal or not, but it seemed like you had some sort of epiphany. Hey, this isn't, I need a little more time

with whoever I'm picking here. Right. And I think that you should, you have to go into this type of experience with an open mind to leaving engaged. And that's what I did. And that journey, that process, as you're meeting these women

and you're evaluating your relationship, the last thing you want to do when you find something that's working is try to rush it. Because we've seen how that's worked with former bachelor, bachelorettes. You mean 90% of the time a disaster? Exactly.

I'm not trying to call anybody out, but I knew what worked for me is when I'm dating somebody, I need to get to know them. I need to know things about them that they might not feel comfortable talking about on camera. And after you're done shooting,

that first day you get to spend with that person, there's more time spent than the 10 weeks that you've been in because it's 10 minutes here. It's 30 minutes there. It's five minutes here. Cocktail party's canceled. No time.

You know, it's like you're constantly trying to find a way to connect so that you know that you're doing the right thing. I forgot to ask you this. I want to go back to that. But the cocktail, that first cocktail party, it's like daylight by the time it's over. It's like an endurance contest. Nobody realizes.

And these girls are wearing high heels and drinking champagne and it's five in the morning. It's like they're torturing them. I'm not a big drinker by any means, but I love wine. Being out there, I was exposed to a lot of things

that I hadn't participated in before. So they got me golfing. I'm almost under 120. I'm working on it. You know, non-alcoholic wine. Like, I'm like trying to sophisticate myself. And I'm seeing these women who are just like, I knew before that first night we were going to be there until 8, 9 a.m. And it's like 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock. I'm seeing people go to the bar for the second time. I'm just like, it's going to be there until 8, 9 a.m. And it's like 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock.

I'm seeing people go to the bar for the second time. I'm just like, it's going to be a long night. And so to your point, I think that as the show went on, women caught on to like, okay, we're going to be here until 5 a.m. Like, let me just, let me get some chicken tenders. I'll get a drink. Let me get a quesadilla and I'll get some wine. So it's like, you find ways to temper it.

Yeah, and the producers are not helping them. They're not going to be like, hey, you might want to ease into this. They're like, hey, who wants a glass of champagne? Let's go. You know, there are drink limits and I think that... Drink limits? Is that true?

I think there are. I know there's drink limits. That doesn't mean that over the course of 7pm Is that true? I think there are. I know there's drink limits. There's drink limits. But that doesn't mean that over the course of 7 p.m. to 5 a.m., it's just a number. If you drink enough champagne or wine, it'll get lit. So you end up with Rachel. Yes. Final show, how are you feeling?

Are you like, I landed somebody that has a chance to be my wife someday? This was a success? Or I need to spend more time with this person? What were you walking away thinking? Right. So my whole thing, Bill, is if I'm dating somebody or pursuing somebody, it's because I see them potentially being my wife and me being their husband. It goes both ways, you know?

And that's something I try to reiterate to the women. And you saw that with Kit. You saw that with Serena P. If at any point they felt like it wasn't for them, they had just as much right to leave as I did to not give them a rose. So knowing that she was there at this point told me that she saw me as her husband. And I saw her as my wife at that time. And instead of rushing into something, I'm like, there's a lot about me that didn't come

out in this experience that you need to get to know about me. And there's a lot about you I still need to know. And I thought that the best path forward to really explore and see if this was going to work was to leave committed to each other and not in the form of engagement, but to one another to get to know each other and seeing if we could build a future together. I would have bet knowing nothing that happened after, I would have bet this was going to work out actually. I actually thought it was the couple, because you're an atypical bachelor too. I think a lot of the time, the people who go on, they're going on for reasons that have nothing to do with, you know, trying to find a way. Um, so then everything falls apart. How long were you together before the big controversy happened? Like how many weeks was it?

Um, I think everything came to a head for me that first week of February. And so how many weeks is since the show is that like five, six, we finished the week before February. And... So how many weeks since the show is that? Like five, six? We finished the week before Thanksgiving. So... Oh, shit. So you were with her for like over two months

after that. Yeah, two months. Yes. We did. We had weekends that we could spend together in isolation before anyone knew

about our relationship. And it was great really getting to know each other and finding out things that I like even more about her that I didn't know during filming and honeymoon, extended honeymoon basically.

And you got to be, you're hiding it at the same time, right? Because people are following her. They want to see if somebody's car is outside somebody's apartment, all that stuff. You're getting tagged. There's like a big black person.

Oh, I see, Matt spotted it. Trader Joe's. You're getting tagged. There's a big black person. Oh, I see. Matt spotted it. Trader Joe's. You're getting tagged in random stuff. People are trying to connect the dots. You don't want to be the one to ruin the surprise. You don't want to be the one to spoil it for anybody. We did a good job about making sure that when we were together, we were locked down.

Disney Plus, cooking at the house. How did you find out? How did you find out that these photos were out there and we were headed toward an actual controversy? Just like everybody else did. TikTok, Twitter, it's constantly in your feed. And you don't want to think that someone knows your person better than you do. You know what I mean?

So it's like, I'm taking everything with a grain of salt. And as it's continuing to roll out, it just hits a head. Are you in the same room with her at this point? Or are you in different places? No, she reached out to me about it. She's like, I think you saw, I don't know if you've seen this. And my thing, Bill, is having seen Tyler go through it and how toxic it can be to be just in your phone and brain and what every article and everyone talking about you. I just remove myself completely. I don't know. I don't want to know because, again, I don't think that anybody knows me better than me. And I don't think anyone knows Rachel better than me because we have this relationship. We tell each other everything. And, you know, you don't want to believe some random TikTok that someone put together that they know more about the person that you've spent all this time with on the show. You're getting to know better than you do. And so you dismiss it, you know, and as they continue to

come up again and again and again, and then when it's addressed formally in the statement that Rachel put out you know it's just a it's a devastating blow it's heartbreaking because everything is real at that moment you know it's no longer a rumor it's real and for you there's just no going back

but you could see in the after the roasting you're still at one point you didn't talk for like 20 seconds. Like we were obviously really struggling with it. Like what, as you realize, like, I don't know if I can be with this person anymore,

but it's playing out in the most public way possible versus this little private thing. And you were a private guy eight months ago. Right. So what, what's, what's the process? How are you deciding I have to get rid of this?

You know, it's, it's, it's tough though, because you, those feelings that you have for that person just don't go away overnight. It's not like, oh, I heard that. All right. Like, thank God. Like, that's not why I went on the show. Like, I didn't go on the show to have to have that conversation in the after the final roads, you know? Like I went on there to find someone who I'm compatible with because I knew that this was an experience away from all the technology,

away from all the things that are going on that are distracting that I can finally focus on myself and what I'm looking for. And I found it. And it's like I said in the after the final roads, when you see things like that, there's parts of me that you don't understand. And you have to take a step back and allow that person to put in the work.

I always say put in the work. Everyone's saying put in the work. Putting in the work is educating yourself. It's hiring a person of color, a woman of color to, to show you the nuances of how to act and how not to act. Some people didn't grow up in diverse backgrounds like I did. You know, I grew up with black, white, Jewish, Asian communities all around me. And, um, I'm not going to make excuses for anybody, but those type of relationships I had growing up allowed me to appreciate those cultures and the things that you should respect about just general decency. And the tough thing is having to explain to America why those pictures are problematic to me.

And you hear people harping upon forgiveness. And I forgave her when she told me. But that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed. And I don't want her to do better. And for that to take place, I had to take a step back and let her see that. So if her excuse, and you don't have to tell me what she said, but if her excuse to you was, I didn't know what the party was. I went to it.

I thought it was a dress up thing. I didn't understand the ramifications of that. And maybe that was really how she felt. And that was genuine. But to you, it's a bigger issue than that because there's a fundamental misunderstanding or lack of knowledge that she has to things that are integral to you. So that almost made you think, maybe I don't belong with this person. Yes. It's frustrating though, because there's a lot of situations that you've seen over the past

four years in our country where Black people aren't given the benefit of the doubt. You know, like Tamir Rice, Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor. Like there's no like, oh, I didn't like there's no taking that back. And as black people, we're not afforded that same privilege of not knowing any better, you know? So it's hard to hear that and, and have to explain that to people who and I'm not saying to Rachel, but just the broader audience in general, why that is and isn't problematic. And, and, and that's what was like kind of frustrating for me because I felt

like a lot of that teaching and, and, and learning that the, the, this was put on me, you know, it's like, I just felt this pressure to just make sure that everybody, like, again, that's not what I signed up for. And that's why, you know, black people in all these different situations are exhausted about, you know, the emotional labor that goes into having to explain to every single, like, why is this? Why is that? And it's like, that's not our job. So that's where it's just like, it was frustrating.

Well, and then you probably fully, with all the fallout stuff that happened after the season ended, you probably realized the weight of, you know, you're the first black bachelor that your show's been on for almost 20 years. And Rachel deals with the same stuff. Rachel does a lot of stuff with The Ringer, obviously, and is a great person. And when she was the bachelorette,

she talked about it on my podcast last week, she felt obligated to stay with the franchise because she felt like the franchise actually needed her. And you probably didn't realize that kind of weight was coming into just going on the show, but I think that's how it played out. You know, that's a great point. Like, the emotional labor for Rachel as a Black woman

to carry herself a certain type of way, because if she gets animated about something, she has an attitude. If she, oh, she's an angry Black woman, like, there's so many things that she had to internalize and hold her, bite her tongue on. And she does such a good job trailblazing for Tayshia and myself so that we're not having to deal with a lot of the same things that she was dealing with. New things, but having her to lean on, build through this was everything. You know, she's been someone that has been a rock.

Like I've invited her about a lot of things and she's given great advice. Well, then you have the Chris Harrison thing happens. Right. As if the story wasn't big enough. And that was somebody, you were talking about you have chefs and valets and all of these

kind of safe space people just to talk about the show. I would imagine Chris was one of those people. So that happens. What's your reaction to talk about the show with. I would imagine Chris was one of those people. So that happens. What's your reaction to that in the moment? As I watched that interview with Chris and Rachel, I thought I was in an alternate reality. It didn't even seem real as it's coming out.

It was sad. It was sad to hear that because I'd had so many conversations about how I was feeling and what I was going through and that crazy process that I was in. And it's hard to imagine that he could really sympathize with what I was feeling. And, you know, I think that's why the network ultimately did a great job in having Emmanuel Acho come in and run that after the final ropes, you know. But, you know, Chris has outlined in his statement that he's committed

to putting in the work and he's taking a step back, so I respect that. And I hope that he does. And I don't think that anybody should be trying to cancel him. You know, we should be calling him in to do that work that he's outlined that he wants to do. He's taking a step back to commit to doing that. So I look forward to seeing him do that. Did you talk to him after? You must have, right?

I did. He called me. He apologized. We had a really good conversation, which essentially ended the way that I just expressed to you. It's like he knows what he has to do. He put out his statement saying that he was going to put the work in and he's obviously taking a step back.

It's Caitlin and Tayshia who are going to crush this season as co-hosting The Bachelorette and allow him time to work on himself and put that work in that he talked about. So this is a nightmare officially.ially, you lose your girlfriend, you're in two different controversies, your head spinning, and now you have to go on after the final rose. Contractually, you have to go on.

I would imagine on a scale of, of one to 80, you were probably a 79 not wanting to go on after the final rose, right? You know what, Bill? As much as I didn't want to do it just because of what I knew I was going to have to go through emotionally in those conversations and what it was going to take me back to,

I knew that there were important conversations that I didn't want to shy away from because I'm here. And at this point, the best thing that could come out of this time on the after the final rose is getting this message out and hopefully leading to more people being in this conversation and understanding why things are problematic. And ultimately, I think that's what it did because it sparked a lot of conversation and you can't

progress and move forward without those types of conversations. And, um, I just pray that from an institutional standpoint, uh, they're doing as much listening as, uh, the broader country is. because you could argue there there's a couple good things that might have come out of this too you know maybe down the road i don't know i mean it was certainly the most i don't know what the right not disturbing but maybe the unhappiest season because we didn't even talk about all the all the stuff with all the girls being mean to each other and all that stuff it it will probably go down as the unhappiest bachelor season, but yet maybe there were some lessons. Maybe it is going to contribute in some small way to a couple good things. I don't know. You know, I'll say this, Bill,

that the conversations that I had with the women that weren't shown, unfortunately, there was a lot of personal growth. There's a lot of women who left knowing more about themselves and what they want and more sure of where they're going. And I can't speak for them. I can only speak for myself. That's what I took away from it. Like I told you earlier,

it felt like three months of therapy. Like I'm talking through my feelings. I'm talking through my emotions, why I'm at this place in my life. And I met incredible women. And I left in a relationship that I thought had the potential to go the distance. You know, unfortunately,

things played out differently, but I couldn't have asked for all things considered. These type of conversations have come from, you know, the craziness that followed the season. So I don't regret going on at all. I think you're going to be fine.

And if anything, I think you're going to be more appealing, especially if you're at whoever. I think that people are going to embrace when they see you out there. My point is, I don't think you're going to have a lot of trouble finding somebody else.

Now you're a super busy guy, but I think there'll be more suitors for you. I'm not really worried about you dying alone. I'm so exhausted, bro. Yeah. I can't even think about going on a date or pursuing a woman right now. There's a lot of things that I need to take a step back

and just take in everything and process what's been going on. And watch some sports, right? I mean, you couldn't, how, how long could you not watch sports?

How long was that? Like eight weeks? The finals were going on. So I'm sneaking away. You missed the bubble finals? I didn't miss the bubble finals. I didn't miss the bubble finals. I watched them.

I watched a bunch of great UFC fights. Uh, it was hard though. That wasn't, obviously wasn't my fights. It was hard, though. That obviously wasn't my priority. So you forget. And as a sports fan, that tears me up. I'm the biggest LeBron fan. I do a lot of work with LeBron James Family Foundation,

the I Promise Schools and organizations. And being at a cocktail party and having a producer be like, scores 73-80, it's like, scores 73, 80. It's like, shoot. You got to be locked in on these relationships. At the same time, it's like history is being made by the greatest to ever do it. That would be the part that drove me the most crazy.

Yeah. Not knowing what was going on with all the dumb stuff in my life that I care about, like sports and other dumb things. When you take a step away from all the dumb stuff in my life that I care about, like sports and other dumb things. When you take a step away from all the craziness that is our daily lives, being attached to our phones, being attached to our laptops, smart TVs, whatever, you find a piece of different things.

Like I was, after the show, like I was off my phone completely because you're not checking for it because you're not walking around with it. It's almost like detoxing from it. You're detoxing. And I've turned into the biggest farmer since quarantine started. I've been doing a lot of hydroponic farming. So that's what I would do when I was off the show. I'm just like focusing on plants, looking at different ways to put these gardens into these urban communities.

You just find things that make you whole and make you feel alive that are outside of the things that you find purpose in that destroy our society. Social media, you know, things that are fleeting, things that don't matter. And I think a lot of people figure that out during quarantine. Like, we left our lives in New York City. I'm in New York City. And if you were lucky and fortunate enough, you were able to relocate out of the city. And without all these things, without your apartment, without your going out, without

your fancy dinners, and life went on. And for me, it was a wake-up call. It's like, there's so much to be appreciated outside of this rat race. It's the city. And that was the mentality that I went into the experience with just having that peace of mind going into Nimble. So you're never running this back? Bill, I'll never go on.

Yeah. I was going to say, because sometimes, a couple of times, I think people have done around too. I don't see that happening for you. And please promise me you won't do Bachelor in Paradise either. I'm assuming that's not up your alley. That's not in my cards. No.

That's in someone else's cards. All power to them. But for me, there's a lot of things that I need to focus on outside of reality TV. And I'm excited about that. Is there like a puncher's chance you and Rachel would ever get back together way down the road, like the end of the rom-com kind of thing, or no? What happens?

Here's what I'll say, Bill. I don't think that anyone's irredeemable, and I think that for Rachel, there's a lot that we didn't discuss that we probably should have talked about. I probably should have asked more clarifying questions. And I've given her that space to do that. And in the meantime, I'm working on myself. I'm not going to be dating. I'm just solely focused on getting back into that meaningful work in the community and centering myself around projects that are going to elevate all the work that I've been working on doing in the city and special interest things that I appreciate outside of

reality television. All right. I think we covered it. Now we can make fun of James Babydoll Dixon. You went to college with his daughter. You've known him for how many years now? I call him Mr. Dixon. Everyone calls him Babydoll. I know him as Mr. Dixon. I've known him for almost 10 years now. Ever since he staged his hostile takeover of the Wake Forest Board of Directors? His daughter gets in.

He's immediately on the Board of Directors and belongs to a country club right next to the school. It was unbelievable. I've got a good Mr. Dixon story. He had me down to his place in Jupiter. He has a beautiful house and the bears club in jupiter florida like one of the nicest places i've ever been beautiful golf courses

and we play around the golf and he's like uh he's like let's let's go uh he loves to like to just like he loves when people enjoy all the things that that he's he's he's piled because he's he's crushed everything that he's ever done. Yeah. We're in this massive house in Jupiter. We go play around. He's like, let's go shower at the clubhouse. I'm like, your house is right here.

He's like, no, let's just shower at the clubhouse and we'll go get some food. I'm like, all right. So we're just like walking to the clubhouse. We get to the locker room area and he walks me over to Michael Jordan's locker. He's like, oh, he's in my locker. He's like, oh yeah, by the way, Michael Jordan's like, he's like, we're locker mates. And he's like, he's like 10 lockers down.

He's like, he's like, right, we're locker mates. Oh, he was trying to name drop Michael Jordan's locker? He's like, he's like, we're basically right beside each other. I was dying. Oh my God. Yeah, you are. Y'all are right beside each other I was dying yeah you are you know we always have this running joke Kimmel and all those guys

he does this thing where he meets like very famous people who've only met him once and he insists that they know who he is where it's like Oprah you remember me I'm Jon Stewart's agent I'm baby you know no you remember me and they're just like hi how are you I meet a ton of people all the time yeah we Oprah, you remember me? I'm Jon Stewart's agent. I'm baby. No, no, you remember me. And they're just like, hi, how are you?

I meet a ton of people all the time. Yeah, we, did you watch the final show with him in the fam? I did. I was in Manhattan with him. I, that was another, another funny thing, you know, like I, I pull up to get, to get pizza at one of his favorite spots, like mom and pop spot in Manhasset with his daughter, Grace. And Mr. Addiction is just this maverick in his industry. He's got his hair slicked back.

He's about as fair skin as I am. He's got a great tan, six pack abs. And this man walks up, he's got his hat low. He's got his hoodie on. He's just like in his lounge clothing just like he owns the town and um there's no one i would have rather watched the finale with because i needed to be around friends and family he was just like he's like a second father what did did he have any sarcastic commentary during the show of course the whole time the

whole time you know it's uh that's why i love him you know he he's why I love him. He's a straight shooter, and he's never going to tell me something that isn't in my best interest, whether I want to hear it or not. And I think I needed some tough love after the show, and it was gratifying to be around him as a fan. I played a fantastic trick on him that he doesn't even know I did. What'd you do?

Right after all the stuff happened with Rachel, when you were going through it and then the Chris thing happened, but there was still how many episodes left? There was like five, six episodes left. Five or six. And then people were like, what's going to happen with Rachel?

What if he picked her? So I pretended I knew that you picked her. And I called him and I was like, I can't believe this. Rob Mills told me he picked her. And he's like, yeah, I know. I mean, what's he going to do now, baby? And he just basically confirmed that you picked her,

but there was like six episodes left. So I pulled one over on him. I got to be honest. He's almost 60 now. I don't know if I could have pulled that one on him 10 years ago. I feel like the old man's slipping a little bit. You know what? He's got so much going on constantly that in that conversation, he's just like,

oh, yeah. He's got so many different deals going through his head at that time. That's funny. He never told me that. Well, I guess he never knew, so that's funny. Yeah, because I dropped the Rob Mills thing, and that was the red herring, so then he believed me. Meanwhile, I hadn't talked to Rob Mills.

Rob, another great dude. I hadn't talked to Rob. Rob, another great dude. Uh, I hadn't had a chance to meet him because of, uh, casting and whatnot with being over virtually and stuff, but I was able to catch up with him in, in,

in California and another great dude, uh, understanding and, and just making sure that, that, that I was heard throughout this and people like him and Mr. Dixon, I just have a lot of admiration for.

Well, why don't you plug all the stuff you're doing before we go? Yeah, sure. So like I said, I love farming. So a lot of the work that I've been doing just to stay off of the internet and just get back into the meaningful things that I was working on before I got on the show. Just trying to put these hydroponic farms in these urban areas throughout the city,

as well as this non-alcoholic wine project that we're working on. There's a BC incubator that we're working on putting together in Brooklyn to give a space for businesses started in the community to have a place to have people surrounded by Mavericks in that community, business acumen. And there's a lot going on right now. And it's nice to be back in the city

and have my mind off of all the craziness and focused on meaningful work and getting back to the grind. All right, we'll keep it up. So are we going to know you're in good shape again when you don't have a beard or is the beard to stay? You know, I'm kind of liking the beard.

I kind of like it too. You honestly look like 25 NBA stars. The beard is like the fashionable. This became the NBA beard trend like what, a year ago? Like as usual, LeBron started it. Yeah, you know, LeBron's got a great beard. Kyle O'Quinn's got a great one.

Obviously, James is crazy. But while it's cold, you know, it insulates a lot of the heat. Good point. Being up here in New York, I need that. And it's just, it's like, I feel like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. You know, I came into this experience, like, clean shaven, like, trying to figure everything out, and I've come out a bit wiser,

and I'm kind of stepping in to who I am. So that's the being behind the beard. All right, so Matt James, you can see him on Bachelor in Paradise. It starts next Thursday on ABC. Yeah, farewell to the franchise. I wish it had gone better for you, but it seems like you're in an okay space.

I'm pleased you seem like you're doing well. Being back up in New York and being around friends and family, it's put me in the right spirit. Knowing that I did what I did for the right reasons, you know, and I wasn't going to let a show determine those type of important decisions for me.

So, yeah, all I try to do is be a good person at the end of the day, and the cards are going to fall how they do. I'm amazed you didn't use the word journey at the, in that, but you did say the right reasons, but yeah, I think, I think you got through it.

I think you're going to be fine. They conditioned me with these words. Now I got to unlearn those things, man. Amazing journey. But like, what would you say? Like,

how would you describe it? If someone was like, so like, cause you don't want to say it's a show. Cause then it's like, like, I don't know. What would you say? Well well the things that the the touch point things they

always say are like i want her to open up to me it's a big one right right because you're spending like an hour with somebody what are they going to do like is does opening up mean all right i had a glass of wine here's the biggest tragedy that ever happened like what are you really looking for the bottom line is when you click with somebody you click with them right like you had a glass of wine. Here's the biggest tragedy that ever happened. Like, what are you really looking for? The bottom line is when you click with somebody, you click with them, right? Like you had Rachel, it was obviously guys that chemistry, you didn't need her to open up to you because you liked her. Right. So it's kind of, that's like always the fallback with the bachelor is like, yeah, push her. She's not quite opening up, but in real life, nobody, nobody's, you know, you have a bunch of friends. Nobody's like, yeah, I've been on a couple of dates, but she hasn't opened up to me yet.

It's not a thing normal people say. Right. In The Bachelor, that's what people say. Yeah, no. And a lot of it is because, you know, you get that question a few times and then you get it a few more times. So it just works its way into that answer. I completely hear where you're coming from it.

And with that, you've got a whole cast of women who had different life experiences. So opening up for a kid who had a very different lifestyle growing up in New York City is going to be different than someone like Michelle who grew up in Minnesota

who's a teacher who's having to explain to her kids everything that's going on in Minnesota. As long as they're meeting you where you're at, that opening up for me didn't need to look a certain way. But then you're having a moment and then somebody's standing over you like, hey, can I steal you for a second? I mean, that must be the most frustrating thing. Bill, that was the worst. Like, you feel like you're getting somewhere with somebody and then boom, like comes in like like a little bit tipsy like we need to talk or like or chris harrison comes in like i need to talk to you and then four new women come in so you're just like constantly like you're right

when you think you're comfortable something like oh he's comfortable all right boom we're gonna drop something like oh boom so the more you seem like you're like not stable then all right like just let it ride so you think they're doing that intentionally? They're kind of like knocking you so you don't get too comfortable with any one person? No, I think that's just the flow of the show. Like I think that every few weeks, like when you feel like you're coming into your stride,

boom, someone from another season comes and you're like, wait, what? So, you know, it's like, if it's not one thing, it's another. And like, you're never, you've never arrived. You're never in a safe space because something is bound to happen. It sounds like a horror movie. Hey, at times it was, Bill.

At times it was. All right. Matt James, I'm glad we did this. Thanks for coming on. I know you're not doing a lot, but I really appreciate it. I think the audience is going to appreciate it too. Yeah. Thank you for having me, Bill.

I appreciate you. All right. I wish Joe audience is going to appreciate it too. Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate you. I wish Joe House was in, but... Joe House is following you on this podcast, so there you go. I'm the Joe House of chocolate chip cookies and pizza. What does that mean?

That means anybody who comes to New York City who needs a chocolate chip cookie recommendation, needs to know the premier places to get a slice of pizza, they come to me. Interesting. So what's your number one pizza slice right now in New York? So that's a great question. If it's a slice, then I'm going to Brooklyn to DeFara.

But if I'm going for a pie, I'm going to Arturo's and that's right off Houston and Soho. And then chocolate chip cookie, there's a place called Culture Espresso. The best chocolate chip cookie I've had in mine is higher life. Wow. Culture Espresso. And then obviously, I mean, Levain, you can't miss with Levain.

So you're going to send, I'm going to send my recs one place or the other with that. And then late, late night when, you know, you shouldn't be having a cookie, I'm going to go to, I'm going to go to Insomnia because it's open till 4 a.m.

And who doesn't want a cookie at 4 a.m.? Sloppy, sloppy cookie eating. That's good. You're totally on Joe House's corner right now. It's only naturally coming up next. All right, Matt James, pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Bill.

All right, Joe House is here. This is really Joe House time. March Madness, Masters is coming. NBA trade deadline is next week. My team is today, but I did have a gigantic. I'm almost all the way done. I moved my downtown offices recently, relocated in downtown D.C. The building I move it into literally has a Dunkin' Donuts in the ground floor. Oh, my favorite. Yeah.

I mean, look at this guy. It's a gigantic iced Dunkin'. One shot espresso, one Splenda. That's how we take it. You know, I feel like I've had some success in my career. There's some things I can point to. Arguably, the biggest failure is that Dunkin' Donuts isn't just a steady sponsor of this podcast. I just feel like everything I do should be synonymous with Dunkin' Donuts. My daughter has soccer practice in Santa Monica, and there with the Dunkin' Donuts. We have, my daughter has soccer practice at Santa Monica, and there's a Dunkin' Donuts like a block and a half away.

And it's like a gift from, I can't wait to drop her off at soccer practice so I can go into the Dunkin'. Yeah. Well, I mean, your podcast, any podcast, any of the Ringer podcasts, we would be fine for Dunkin'. Let's make it happen. 2021, all good things are happening. This is the year, the rebound year.

We're all coming back. Let's get Duncan on board. Stop teasing us, Duncan. Anytime we've ever done a read for them, you can hear like the game seven excitement in my voice as I talk about like a cool lot or whatever. All right. We're going to play a game called what Eastern conference team in the NBA is the most desperate to make a trade? As usual, I did not prep you for this at all. And as usual, I made a list and ranked it and didn't consult you on the ranking. So we're off to an awesome start.

I am going to make the case that the Boston Celtics are our single most desperate trade team. And I'm saying this on a Thursday. The games are a little bit after we tape, but they're not playing tonight. They lost to Cleveland last night. Kemba didn't play, but it was one of those.

It's just a classic. It was a microcosm of what this team's been all year. And it's becoming a spiritless team in a lot of ways. I don't really understand the makeup of the players on it. The fans are disgruntled. House, is this our most desperate team in a lot of ways. I don't really understand the makeup of the players on it. The fans are disgruntled house. Is this our most desperate team in the East? I don't think so. And the reason I don't think so is because my question to you,

what's the point there? There are 20 and 20. There's 32 games left in the season. I mean, this, this year, I think makes more sense for them to chalk up to, to a lost year. I mean, there's a bunch of big picture factors that are impacting the Celtics. You know, they, everybody came back, the league started much sooner than people were prepared for

Kemba's injury lingered on into January, February. There are clear chemistry issues in Boston and way too much of guys standing around and watching Brown and Tatum just do their ISO thing. The defensive tenacity isn't there for Boston. You're sitting at 20 and 20. What is your goal for the year? You are not going to win

the NBA title this year. So what's the point? These are all fair points. The counter would be the Celtics were eight and three. They came within a couple dumb games of making the finals last year. They had a COVID Tatum thing.

They had a smart injury. They lost a couple close games and just kind of lost their mojo. And I know that sounds like a cop-out, but I'm saying this would be the excuse. They lost their mojo and some dumb shit happened. And it's salvageable for two reasons. The argument would be,

one is that they have this giant $27.5 million trade exception. So they can immediately get somebody and add to their mix. And then the other is that they just need to be healthy and all play together for a while. Like Smart's back,

but he's a shell of himself. It's going to take a couple more weeks, I think, for him to be right. The case, wait, the case you just laid out. So they are 12 and 16 in their last 28 games. And I did,

I put a thing on Twitter about everybody's record in the East the last 20 games. It is kind, I put a thing on Twitter about everybody's record in the East, the last 20 games. It is kind of stunning how many teams are ahead of them. They're right there with your wizards. The wizards are 11 and 16 since the first 12 and my team's 12 and 16 since the first 12. And that's what I think the diehard Celtic fans keep coming back to is like, what is this team? We have two good players. So like Chicago has Zach Levine and somebody else will get hot on that for one game. And it's like, are they better or worse than us? Not really. So that would be the case for standing Pat. But my argument to you house, let's just say they get Victor Oladipo for nothing. Let's just say

they bring them in. He's just on the team. They give up, you know, they basically absorb his cap, his, uh, his contract. They don't even have to give anything back. They throw the rockets like these Smith and a second rounder rockets get out of that pick. Anyway, they're trying to tank. They need to be one of the worst four teams. And then you add somebody who can create his own shot, which is the thing they really need. They have two and a half guys who can create their own shot. I'm at Kemba is a half because he can't play back to back. And they put all Depot as a six man. Could that salvage some of this? Maybe some of it, but what you're really doing is replacing Kemba because Kemba seems like it's a lost season for him. I mean, you know, between the lingering injury and again, there's a chemistry problem with Boston. How does Oladipo help with a chemistry problem over the next 32 games?

It'll be his third team in a calendar year. I know. He's just getting passed around. I would say just the most frustrating thing about watching the Celtics team. You mentioned the one-on-one stuff. And honestly, it's not even Tatum and Brown's fault. Those are the guys they are. There's so few guys in the

league that are inclusive basketball players that actually make other guys better. And, you know, you watch Hayward on Charlotte this year. One of the ironies of the Celtics season, Hayward's been playing fantastic and he's the kind of guy they need. And it's like, we had, we had the ghost of him for three years. I know. is pay him. I know. You paid him. Well, he didn't want to stay. He wanted to go. I think he knew it was the Brown-Tatum team. But you watch how inclusive he is. And he's driving to the basket and then kicking out.

And the ball moves with him. And he's cutting when he doesn't have it. And that's what they need. And they can't find it. And it wasn't. It wasn't. It's not his team in Charlotte. No.

Yeah. So, I mean, it's apparent that he's willing to be an accommodating player. He just wasn't willing to be accommodating in Boston any longer. And Charlotte is the irony of the Celtics. This is not the way Brad Stevens ever wants to play. And I'm not absolving him of blame for this because I don't think he has any feel for this team. I think especially like the beginning of the fourth quarters, they've just been abominable. There's just bad lineups.

I think he's trusted Jeff Teague and Grant Williams, stuff like that, but to, to his detriment, but it's a team that just doesn't play well together. And, you know, sometimes basketball is fucking simple.

Do the guys play together? Charlotte plays well together. I can't explain it. It's a weird team. We certainly didn't expect the lamello thing. I was the only one on the planet who expected the Monk-a-sants, the Monk Renaissance.

They'll have these random Bismack-Biombo games where he turns into Bill Russell in the last four minutes and just is protecting the room against... They just play well together. And the Celtics played well together last year and they don't play well together this year. So I guess my thing with Oladipo,

Barnes is the guy they really need. I don't think Sacramento is going to trade Barnes. I think because of where we have this, how late, how just goofy the 72 game season is, I'm just skeptical that Sacramento is going to be like, cool, here's Harrison Barnes, take him. We'll just take some more, you know, iffy picks and we'll be back to square one.

They actually kind of need a guy like that. So to me, Oladipo seems like the most realistic guy. And you're right. What does that do for the Celtics? Could you play Kemba, Oladipo, Tatum, Brown, and Time Lord and Crunch Time, and everyone spread out trying to beat people one-on-one? That's something. It's more than any what they have. Maybe. I just wouldn't want to try that as a 32-game experiment, especially with the teams in front of the Celtics that you have to leap over. If it doesn't cost you anything,

then maybe it's worth the gamble. But, I mean, I don't know. What's the contours of the trade exception? Does it roll over? Do they keep it into the next season if they don't use it this year?

They can keep it this offseason and then it kind of dies at some point. Okay, well, I mean, that... But here's the thing. This would be the case for using it and for trying to go for it. they can keep it this off season and then it kind of dies at some point okay well i mean that but here's the thing when you this would be the case for using it and for trying to go for it this is a league now where a team where a superstar or an all-star can get fed up with their situation in five seconds that's true you lose for a couple months you're frustrated man and the coach does know how to use me uh we can't get any help. I have to carry too much.

And all of a sudden, the guy's in another city. All of a sudden, he's playing for the Nets. All of a sudden, he's in Dallas. And you're like, what the fuck just happened? That would be the case for, let's try to make the team better. And I think with Oladipo, here's who they're competing against.

The Heat? I think they have expirings, but I think the Celtics have better picks than young guys. The Heat aren't throwing Hero in an Oladipo trade. Philadelphia could potentially put Maxie on the table with Danny Green, but I'm not even sure that makes Philly better. Dallas has expirings, and they could throw in Josh Green from last year's draft and do that.

Golden State could do Oubre and their own pick, which will be, you know, like 10, 12 range. Denver could do Harris and a bowl bowl and maybe RJ Hampton and something like that. And then San Antonio, if they wanted to get ambitious with the Rosen, I think the competitor would be Denver. I totally agree. That's like a nice little, it's a tweak, but it's not like a, like a major dangerous move, but it's a good one to have.

And could he play crunch time for them? Yes. It's super, super, um, important to, to Denver to get that additional score perimeter score. That's the thing that they,

that's the ingredient that I feel like could, could elevate because you can't waste this MVP season by the Joker. So if you're Boston, you probably have to put, because you blew it on the Neesmith pick. I don't even think he has trade value. Pritchard has a tiny bit of trade value. You can't trade Robert Williams because he's just shown too much potential.

So you're probably putting this year's pick on the table, which will be somewhere in the 14 to 16 range. And then maybe you're throwing in another pick. And then maybe you're throwing in Grant Williams. And I don't know. You're patching it together. I do think Denver could be like, hey, RJ Hampton's probably a better asset than anyone the Celtics are offering you. Our pick's not as good.

Anyway, I think it'll be one of those two. You think there's no chance Bradley Beal happens for anybody, much less the Celtics, right? The more most recent intel is he's just going to ride out the season and I'm disappointed by it because I feel like there is his value is at the absolute peak right now. I don't think he'll have quite as high value in the offseason, but it seems like they're all committed to just ride

through. He'll still have very good, very high value in the offseason, but I just would love to see a team come up with a Godfather offer because he really could help six or eight teams out with a godfather offer because he really could help you know six or eight teams out there so godfather offer is is putting porter in a trade a godfather offer because i i'm on the fence on that i would probably say no are you talking about michael porter yeah yeah um well i

ever since we talked about him denver has a potential trade destination in exchange for Beal. I've been watching him, and he's so lost there. I don't understand what they're doing. He has great games. He has games where he's wandering. I don't understand what's going on with him in Denver. Him and Malone clearly have some kind of weird relationship. I feel the same way.

I don't think he's a slam dunk godfather offer guy. But we just saw somebody get James Harden without necessarily making a godfather offer. They just threw in a million picks. I think for the Celtics, the question for me is, would they put Jalen on the table or not? They shouldn't.

I personally would not want them to do that. That's the most important asset. I think, you know. Over Tatum? Well, they're equally important. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not trading Tatum. Yeah.

So if it was Jalen, what does that get you? 80% of bill? 90% of bill? I don't even know what the percentage is. Now, Rasil is going to make fun of me because I'm doing the percentage thing. Maybe 90%. You'd have to maybe throw in two firsts or something. I don't know. But I don't know what that gets you. And I love Tatum and I think Jalen's important for the city. I wouldn't do that. So I don't even know where the Beal trade is. Washington has a talent deficit. They don't have enough

good basketball players. So if you're going to trade Beal, you need to get back the opportunity for five good basketball players, minimum of four good basketball players. The problem that, that Washington has the reason they started the season on five and the reason, or they were worse than that. And the reason they're oh,

and five since the all-star break is because they don't have enough good basketball players. It's a good analysis, House. Thank you. We'll be back on Get Up after this. Next most desperate team. And I have Boston 1A and I have this next team 1B. And again, this is my list.

I didn't consult House. I think there's real desperation now with Toronto. Oh. And Toronto is a fun one because right now they are 17 and 23. We're taping this before Thursday's games, which puts them in a tie for the 10 seed in the playing game. It's one of those teams that you're like, oh, well, when their guys come back, they'll be fine.

And then you're like, no, their guys are back. That's the team. Yeah. They just don't have the same size anymore. And all of a sudden, Norman Powell's like a crunch time guy. To me, they're a team that should trade Kyle Lowry now. In the caveat house, they won the title. He won.

He won the championship. You did it now. Now it's like, you're holding on to, you know, you know, to something that happened two years ago. You're not going back yet. You had your last great heroic standing. It's the Celtics in the second round last year. And Kyle, I was 35 and you make the trade. I think, what do you think? Well, I agree with making the trade, but I don't think that they're desperate at all. This season's a cross off. I already have them cross off like competing for the, for the plan.

Is that the ceiling for this Toronto team? It sure looks like it. I mean, they're, they're up against Indiana, who I think is truly desperate. And then, you know, the, the, the Knicks are right there with this resurgent season. What's the point of Toronto being in a playing game? What's the point? Exactly. Where do they go? The Knicks are right there with this resurgent season. Atlanta is 20-20. What's the point of Toronto being in a playing game? What's the point? Exactly.

Where do they go? Exactly. Exactly. So I don't think they're desperate at all. I think the right thing to do is to trade Lowry to get assets back and start thinking about what the next season looks like. But I don't think that Toronto is desperate. No, we're arguing the same thing.

I think they're desperate for the different reasons than Celtics. There has to be desperation to trade Lowry because there's not that many stars in the market right now. And that's somebody that I feel like if you're Denver or you're Philly, you would pay a premium for Lowry.

You would pay more for him than you get this offseason. So that's why I think they're desperate. I think they have to make a move. Yeah, we're on the same page. All we're saying is like, I think peak value for Lowry right now. So, okay.

If you were calling that desperate, then that's fine. I agree with you. I think they should be desperate to trade him. And if I'm Denver and I could get Lowry and I'll give you the Gary Harris and I'll throw in Bulbul and Hampton and I'll throw in my first and let's call it a day.

Then if I'm Philly, I'm doing the same thing. If it has to be Danny Green and Maxie and a contract to make it happen, I'm doing it. When we started this exercise, when you said most desperate, the two teams that jumped off the page at me were Miami and Philly. Both of those teams have

legit title aspirations and they have the composition. Their players are playing at a sufficiently high level where it's legit for them to think about title for the 2021 season. And so both of those teams have assets and a guy like Lowry would make an enormous difference on both of those teams. So that's when we started this whole exercise, Philly and Miami were my top two. So here's my counter to that. And this is why I think Boston and Toronto are at the top.

I think Miami and Philly could head into the playoffs with the teams they have and be okay with it. I don't think there's a glaring hole. If you're Miami, you're just trying to get healthy. Like since the break or since the first 12 games. So Miami is 22 and 19 right now, but taping for Thursdays. They're 17 and 12 in their last 29. And I think we all think it's going to be Philly, Brooklyn, Milwaukee,

and then Miami is going to be the fourth team. And then everybody else is like, you know, could, could threaten somebody in round one, but ultimately we don't really believe in anybody. I don't really know what the trade is for Miami. Cause they're so handcuffed by their first round pick situation with all these different things and they owe this and the protection. And it's just too hard for them to trade picks.

And then with Philly, I just don't think Daryl has ever done anything desperate, which is why the West Westbrook trade was so bizarre his last year in Houston. Cause that was a desperate trade. And all of us were like, wait a second, that Daryl doesn't make trades like that. And then it turns out he didn't want to, but I don't think he's, I think if the choice is like keep Maxie roll the dice with Danny green over like trying to upgrade it by 5%, I don't think they'll do it. Isn't the problem for Philly what we're going through right now, which is how unreliable the health situation there is? So what you're doing by bringing in a top-tier player like a Lowry

or an Oladipo is creating immense depth. It gives you so much flexibility to weather the unexpected, unforeseen health complications that are inevitable. It seems, especially with this Philly team, Simmons and Embiid just trade off on who's going to miss time at whatever point in the season. You can't arrive in the playoffs and have one of those guys out.

Here's the thing with Embiid, though. If he gets hurt or if he's not 100%, you're not winning the title anyway. Well, I mean, what if he gets hurt or if he's not 100 you're not winning the title anyway well well i mean what if he is like dinged where he has to miss you know some number of games in the first round but then he can come back in the second round yeah they're they're deep enough right now we watched it last night in in that milwaukee game um you know tobias is playing at a high level and seth curry is you know gives them such a great dimension. I mean, really that game, Philly was poised to win that game and that was a schedule loss for them.

They were, they, they absolutely should have lost last night, but they were in it the whole, whole way through. And, and Seth was, was playing great. They just missed too many shots at the, at the in the overtime. That's it. Yeah. It's a tough one because i just feel like it's almost like when you spend 45 on patrick mahomes and fantasy like do you do you even spend a dollar on a backup at that point like if he gets hurt you're screwed anyway you just hurt your whole team toward if he's out then you're out and that they're done yeah that's a

fact you're right about that um chicago and ind Chicago and Indiana had written down, and this is why desperation can mean different things depending on the team, right? With Chicago, I think there's a little desperation just to try to figure out this marketing situation. Sure. You know, because he can leave and just, what is this? What do we have here? He's never really gotten a fair kind of run. Every time he's gotten momentum, there's been some injury or something's happened. And do you try to flip him before the deadline? They also have a ton of cap stuff that they could do. They can put together like $35 million worth of stuff. So for instance, I wouldn't trade him for Al Horford because I don't even know if

Al Horford's an asset. I would, I would just trade my cap if I wanted Al Horford, but would you take a flyer on Marvin Bagley if you're them? Broken hand, but he's not a, he's not a restricted free agent or anything next year. You get to kind of, you know, just get to see, see him for one more year versus having this gun to your head with marketing where it's like, do we give this guy a hundred million? What do we do? We don't even, we're not even positive. He's great.

Same thing. Like, could you trade him to the Knicks for Obi Toppin? Let the Knicks figure out the marketing thing. Toppin doesn't make sense with the Knicks because Randall is playing his position and he's an all-star. He's way better. And Toppin's never going to get minutes over him if they keep Randall.

So could you do a Markin and Toppin trade? That's interesting. That's a fun one, right? Yeah, I kind of like that because the athleticism of Toppin is just untapped right now. We haven't seen it. Billy Deed is doing a really good job, I think, with Chicago. I agree. And, you know, if they're invested in Zach, if you want to play that super speedy, highly athletic game

and you're not all the way in on Markkinen, let's get an asset back. I mean, that's a better trade than what the Knicks got in return for Porzingis. Well, it's the same trade in a way. They got excited for that Dallas pick for five seconds. Yeah, I really like Toppin for marketing. I think that makes a lot of sense

because I think Toppin could actually play with Patrick Williams, who we both love. Yeah. And you play those two with Wendell Carter and you got Zach Levine and Kobe White out there. And that's a five that actually makes sense to me. And that's a really athletic five too. That's it.

Yeah. And young. Yeah, Zach and Kobe, all those dudes. I thought that was a five that actually makes sense to me. And that's a really athletic five too. That's it. Yeah. And young. Yeah. Zach and Kobe, all those dudes. I thought that was a really fun one. If I'm the Knicks, I still think marketing is a classic distressed asset. They're just classic. He's the definition of if this guy's on the right team, watch out.

And I would be trying to trade for him if I was a GM. The Knicks are in a fun situation, though, because they do have assets now, right? And they have a coach who's built a culture. And I don't think they're going to make desperate moves. Like, I actually think they very carefully thought about what this team is. And if they do anything, it'll be either trading for Drummond

or a Drummond buyout or whatever. But if they had a chance to get marketing. I think they'd have to look at it. What a metamorphosis for the, for the Knicks. Like if we talked about the Knicks six months ago, we wouldn't have had any reason to, but Holy cow,

what a difference, a real GM worldwide West in the mix for Hibs, you know, Tibbs arriving and all those guys immediately buying into a Tibbs culture, at least for the, for the first year. And, and it's a real revelation of, of what a guy who can instill that kind of like just basic professionalism and take the chaotic situation and create order out of it. Good on Tibbs.

You know, he tried it in Minnesota. It didn't work. But it sure is working in Nick's land. He's been the most Tibbs I think he's ever. He's been the most Tibbs-y I think we've ever seen him. His clothes don't fit anymore. And he's just like this hulking, lurching. He's got the mask on.

He can't keep the mask on his face. He's yelling at everybody. They're getting screwed over and calls at the end of every game. He's got the mask on. He can't keep the mask on his face. He's yelling at everybody. They're getting screwed over in calls at the end of every game. He's losing his mind. It's great, Tibbs. You can almost see him just smoking cigarettes in the tunnel after wondering what the hell happened. The Knicks, the

drum and piece would be interesting for them. I don't know how they pull that off, whether they'd actually have to trade for him or hope he gets bought out. Just as a rebounder, one more guy type situation, I don't know. Charlotte, Chicago, and the Knicks, I think are all teams that can hang against

pretty much anybody. You know? I'm not saying they'll win a playoff series, but they're tough outs. Every time you watch them, like, they're going toe-to-toe. It'll be like, oh, we're playing Brooklyn and all of a sudden it's a two-point game with 30 seconds left. I like the way they play.

Going to talk about a couple more teams. We'll take one quick break. Alright, coming back. Wanted to mention Indiana as the other desperation team. So, there's a Miles Turner thing happening right now with them that I do feel like he went from the Celtics weren't really that totally fired up about getting Turner and McDermott and whatever for a sign and trade with Hayward. And the question was like, what's Turner's value in the league?

He makes 18 million. You can get those guys for nine. But he's been better this season. And there's some teams that could use a guy like miles Turner. Ironically, I was thinking Charlotte. Oh, wow.

Okay. Cause I do think Charlotte's like not far away. Like the thing that's killing them is the, is the, uh, beyond Bo Zeller, like those, just those minutes from that spot.

And if they could flip that into Turner with the other pieces they have. Oh, I think that would be a five seed. I like this. Now, the thing that's interesting to me when it comes to Indiana is we don't, they haven't had their team and they have slightly underperformed without their team this year in the way that they slightly overperformed without their team last year, because they were in the same boat last year and they, they were really a tough team to beat this year. They've lost games that they shouldn't be losing. Well,

they, and they lost the Ola Depot 20 points a game and, and Levert had the tragic thing happen to him. He just came back, but right. You basically just lose 20 points a game. And TJ Warren, we'll be back in that.

It's still a formidable team. I love their team on paper. And why wouldn't they just ride out? You make the argument about let a team get healthy and over the next 32 games, let's see what they got. Indy is the case of that kind of

decision making to me. I guess the question for me is do Turner and Sabonis belong on the same team? And my answer would be no. I just think both of them are fives. It doesn't really make sense to me. And Sabonis has issues. Like there's certain big guys

when he can get overpowered. But for the most part, I think Turner's kind of slumming it in the spot he's in there now where they basically turned him into this stretch five. Put him on Charlotte as more of a rim runner.

He's not 25 feet from the basket all the time. I'd be intrigued by that. Plus him with the mellow. It's interesting. Other than that, I think we hit all the desperation teams. The Toronto, the Siakam piece I forgot to mention.

Whether that's somebody that... Just whether they would ever put him on the table. Oh, wow. Interesting. Like if Golden State... And I don't know who would make this call, but if Golden State was like Wiggins and the Minnesota pick we have for Siakam, what would Toronto do?

And first of all, who makes that offer? And I actually think both teams say no, but there would definitely be three-hour meetings on both sides. That's interesting. I don't... Why do you think they say no? I think that's a good pickup for...

That's a good return on value for Golden State. But if you're Golden State, you have to have a very, very definitive idea as to what that contribution from Siakam. He needs to come in into a role immediately that fits, that he's comfortable with, and understand it.

He could do Draymond. He could do Draymond. When they have Clay and Steph, the Oubre's fine. Wiseman's fine. The role players are fine. Clay, Steph, Draymond, Siakam?

And Wiseman. Yeah, it gives them like small ball, big ball. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it could work. I think that Minnesota pick, and I don't remember if I've talked about this on a pod before, it's such a fascinating trade asset. They're in the same situation the Celtics were in. And it's even a better situation. The Celtics were in with the Sacramento pick they had and

the Memphis pick they have where you have this asset because it could end up being awesome. Minnesota pick, top three protected this year, unprotected next year. Seems like it's going to be awesome. The Celtics were in that situation with Sacramento and Memphis. They had this Memphis pick.. Seems like it's going to be awesome. The Celtics were in that situation with Sacramento and Memphis. They had this Memphis pick. It looked like it was going to be incredible. It was like a real asset. They kept it. They were afraid to trade it. It turned out to be the 13th pick. And in the same situation with Sacramento, turned out to be the 14th pick. My point is like, you just don't know. You're trusting the other team to basically be terrible and tank even though they don't have a pick.

And I don't know. You could argue it's better to cash that in. And if you're Toronto, you'd probably keep Siakam, especially he's been playing much, much better the last six weeks. But you'd have to be intrigued by Wiggins, the Canadian guy, and how well he's played this season compared to where he

was. And then the possibility of Minnesota pick jumpstarting your team, you know, and, and striking oil with it. So it's a fun one. I don't think it'll happen, but it's a fun,

uh, it's a fun back and forth there. All right. Um, how much do you like watching Brooklyn? I love watching Brooklyn. I mean, I,

I don't, you know, I understand the reasons why, um, purists, you know, it's still James Harden doing James Harden things. Um, but I, I, I don't care. I, I enjoy it. I think it's going to be fantastic come playoff time. Um, I'm, I'm very excited for like an Eastern conference final of Philly and Brooklyn or Milwaukee and Brooklyn, or maybe, you know, wildcard Miami and Brooklyn. But I think... Why not? Why not?

Brooklyn's going to get to the... Without some kind of crazy injury issue, they're getting to the final, and it's going to be awesome to see. Totally agree. Harden is kind of falling back into a couple of his annoying bad habits, but I think league pass has been really fun this year.

I really like watching Brooklyn. I really like watching Charlotte. Yeah. Uh, then you go the, the Zion piece in new Orleans, Russo said Zion, he was a single favorite player to watch.

And I was like, no, that, and then I couldn't think of anybody else who I enjoy watching more than him. And then the three of us are texting at the end of every new Orleans game because Brandon Ingram's like, I got this guys. And you got Zion who's shooting 60% and,

or he's going to get fouled. And Brandon Ingram's like clear out, clear out. I got this 22 foot pull up jumper coming. And it's clear that that matchup's not long, but I love watching Zion. And I actually liked the way Lonzo and Zion play together. He's unleashed a little Lonzo.

I think, I feel like Lonzo is kind of a keeper for them. Oh, I mean, it's been a real transformation. His jump shot looks great right now. I mean, it looks pretty good to him.

Kudos to him for, for that work. I also love watching Phoenix. Anytime Phoenix is on, I'll switch over to watch. Yeah, I agree. And then both LA teams I'm out on.

It's like I'll see you in the playoffs. I don't need to watch any of your games now. I hate to watch the Clippers and I don't watch the Lakers. It's funny. The Clippers have a lot of the same issues the Celtics have with the stand around stuff. I just, um,

can't tolerate. I, I don't want, um, the basketball gods to strike me down, but I don't like this version of Kawhi. I don't, I just,

I, I, I, he, he does not look like, um, the athleticism that he wants his, the lift in his legs looks...

It's not the same. And maybe it's deliberate, right? Maybe he's pacing himself. We haven't had, you know, he hasn't had a ton of rest this year. He's not the alien that he was in like 2016, 17. He's not.

But I still think he has more know-how and he still gets his stats and he still gets to the spots. But you're right. Athletically, ooh, I'm going to do it. I'd say he's like 88%. Don't tell us hello. Uh, yeah, I'm not a believer in that team. Oh, I forgot to mention. I do enjoy watching Denver. I enjoy the Joker, especially, uh, in the last five, but there's two great last five minute teams where Denver and Portland.

Oh, Portland and another. How do we leave them out? Well, if it's ticker and it's like, it's 103, 102 is six minutes left. You kind of have to go over. And I still like Golden State's kind of a wait and see. You kind of know with Curry. It's always in the first quarter. Yeah, you kind of know that in six minutes.

If he's not getting 50, I'm out on them. I can't, I can't watch him. I can't, we're going all, we've done about, getting 50, I'm out on them. I can't watch him. I can't. We're going all. We've done about, you know, 25 minutes here on the NBA and people in Atlanta are going to be so mad

that we haven't said one six game win streak. Yeah. Team schedule. Schedule wins. They're the sixth spot right now. They're 500. They have a plus differential,

maybe for the first time in however many years. And, you know, Bogdanovich return. I don't know. Is it interesting? Is Atlanta interesting? Like a week away. Let's see.

All right. Let's see them. Let's see them play a couple of tough. I mean, only two teams have are on these, these giant win streaks. It's Atlanta and Brooklyn. I'm not, I'm not ready to have an Atlanta conversation yet. Okay.

I'm sorry. It's fine. I just wanted to make sure. What's your take on DeAndre Ayton for Carl Towns? DeAndre Ayton for Carl Towns. That came up on a recent podcast I did. It was a fun. It's a win-win. I love it. It's kind of fun, right? Yes. I think it's terrific. Can Aiden survive in Minnesota?

That would be the calculus, right? Probably not. March Madness, does it mean as much to you as it used to? Well, that's an interesting question, right? Because the answer is no, but it's been that way for probably like, I don't know, seven or eight or nine years. And the reason is because we, in our evolution as basketball fans, don't care about playing brackets. Like brackets have greatly diminished in our lives. The NCAA tournament. You know what's wrong with brackets? Gambling. That's it. Yeah. There you go. The fact that gambling has the possibilities on the gambling front are so much interesting than a bracket now.

The two things that make the NCAA tournament compelling to me, I get to see these players that are the NBA prospects. And I want to ask you a very quick aside on this topic. And we've only had this. The only other opportunity to really discuss this in earnest was with Ben Simmons, except for LSU was so terrible. Although his uncle got paid. So congratulations to all of them. They didn't make the tournament.

If you're Cade Cunningham, why are you playing in the ncaa tournament is he already guaranteed to be number one yes i mean i haven't seen one single thing that suggests that he's not the overall number one i mean the most one yeah it seems like he's number one the most fun thing he could do is the thing we've always dreamed of somebody doing just for comedy's sake. And just to watch the, uh, all the, the pander culture online going nuts for it. If he just was like, yeah, I'm not going to play in the final four. I'm good. I'll see you guys later. But the thing is we, we litigated this two years ago with Zion. When we talked about this, these guys, they're homies with all their dudes. They're in a college dorm. It's like when you and I were hanging out on wheeler to a million years ago, like you're

not fucking over your friends. So I just think there's no way that we're never seeing that unless it's somebody who's wildly unpopular with his teammates. Okay. I want to see him play. So I'm rooting for him and there's no indication whatsoever that he's not going to play, but that's the other part of why gambling is, is, is the a number one reason for the NCAA tournament.

I'm looking for, I'm going to do a nice favorites parlay where I try and take some big favorites, put them together, however many teams I need to get to even money. And then I'm looking for some upsets. I mean, there is one upset out there. That's very tasty. Colgate. Colgate's one of them. That's, that's in the top five

of the interesting upsets. The one I got my eyes on, and I think it's the upset du jour, is Ohio. We should mention, House actually follows college basketball, unlike me. He's not talking out of his ass when he's giving you this stuff.

No, no, no. You follow, though. You know what's going on. Well, I mean, Ohio's a 13 seed. Virginia's a four seed. And Virginia had to pull out of the ACC tournament because they had a COVID problem. And who knows what they've been doing in terms of practice and everything. They don't have the defensive intensity that they've had in previous years. And Ohio's got this guard, Jason Preston, their

13th and effective field goal percentage at Ohio. Like they can score the basketball. Well, I mean, I'm just looking for an upset, you know what I mean? And, and so, I mean, I can go on the fan duel sports book, pull up, you know, the, the, the money line odds and, and try and build something nice off of it. I'm excited to scout, uh, prospects. KOC actually put up his draft guide today. He had Cade Cunningham one, call them a franchise changing offensive orchestrator. KSC love it. Uh, I'm, I'm still waiting to be. I'm still.

My socks are on after I watch Kate Cunningham. I'll put it that way. He hasn't knocked my socks off yet. My socks are still on my feet every time I watch. So I've seen him a few times at the end of games where he's needed to drag Oklahoma State back in to have a chance at winning. And he's done it. He's put the team on his back. All right. So I'll lose my socks at some point.

I'm not saying I'm not going to see it. I need to see the right game so I fully get it. Because right now, what do we think? Penny Hardaway-ish? Yeah, sure. But that's terrific. Yeah. Penny Hardaway is awesome. I guess.

He got hurt. He was awesome. No, he was. Evan Mobley, KOC is number two. He's on USC. Calls him a versatile two-way big. Yeah, the big guy. Jalen Green, who is not in the tournament. That's number three.

Jalen Suggs from Gonzaga. Yeah. Going to see a lot of him. Knock on wood. Would that be the highest since Morrison for a Gonzaga guy? Yes, definitely. No other Gonzaga guy has gone that high. And then Jonathan Kaminga, who is another not guy in the draft.

Then it drops off. But from everything I've heard about this draft, there's five. You want to be in the top five, which makes the Golden State conundrum that we talked about earlier so interesting where if that picks four or five they get it and everybody thinks this is five and then a drop off

depending on what happens in March Madness so yeah we always say the March Madness always ebbs and flows depending on the talent and it does seem like there's there's some talent there's guys to watch and we can and we can gamble and i nothing you know it it's a risk or a return

to normalcy a restoration like i forgot what it was like to gamble on college basketball and watch these kids go out in a rock fight and get so mad at how bad they are you know like we're nba snobs so like you know they're they'll go three and a half minutes. Nobody scores four minutes. Nobody scores. It's all three pointers. And I just get furious. I like that.

I like that feeling. I like being mad at myself for gambling on stupid shit. I like when Sal steals March Madness title picks from other people. It's one of my favorite things. Oh, yeah. Tate had Illinois. And then Sal, like two days later, was like, my pick is Illinois. Come on, Sal.

We know you asked Tate. Just admit it. Because. Unbelievable. Just admit it, because. Tate at least knows. Tate's watching the game. Because it's like, I did not ask Tate.

I love the Illini. Shots. Who's on the Illini? Why is everybody picking them to win the title? They have two guards that are really good. And they've been on a good run lately. We're going to take a break. Come back when you get to your house. Make fun of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Alright, house. America's on pins and needles waiting for this question to be answered. Are you feeling the Fitzmag magic in the DMV? Are you, are you dressed like David Blaine right now in a Fitzpatrick Jersey? No, I, my, my, I have my zipper all the way down and my chest hair is out. Are you kidding me? Fitz magic is coming to the D he's immediately.

The number one sexiest guy in dc right at the top he he leap frogs right over ted cruz he catapults ted cruz and biden he's right over biden as well are you kidding me i love it's his ninth team in the nfl uh but you know what the play he made last year where where he's getting the you know know, uh, uh, strangled around the neck. He throws the ball 40 yards down the field. He can't see it. I'll never forget that play.

That will always, that'll be for the rest of my life. Possibly the greatest, one of the greatest football plays I've ever seen. Do you think he's sexier than hologram Joe Biden? That's my favorite conspiracy thing. Joe Biden is a hologram Joe Biden? That's my favorite conspiracy thing. Joe Biden's a hologram? This is the Bill Simmons podcast presented by QAnon. He's a hologram.

The top of his head disappeared when he walked by a wall. What was going on there? Unbelievable. I love that. What a world. I'm excited you have an interesting quarterback controversy

in Washington. A little Heineken, Fitzpatrick? There's no controversy. Oh, it's a controversy. It's like, who does Joe Theismann in the controversy

with that time in the 70s? I don't remember. It was an old white guy. Was it like Craig Morton, Sonny Jurgensen? It might have been Billy Kilmer.

Billy Kilmer? That's what it was. It might have been Billy Kilmer. Are you excited that Belichick let it rain I don't understand what the what's going on did Dan Snyder

move to New England I mean because I'll tell you this on our text yesterday Warren Sharpe hurt my feelings with his Nelson Aguilar thoughts hurt my feelings but you know what I'm not going to let him rain on my parade who is going to be the quarterback of the New England Patriots?

That's the most important question that's out there. Every one of those $140 million guaranteed is a wasted dollar if we don't know who the quarterback is. It's not going to be Cam Newton. There's no scenario under which it could be Cam Newton. When did the quarterback position

become so important? Just stop. Come on. Work with me here. What happened? What, what is the buzz in new England about what the fuck is going on up there with, with bill Belichick and the decision-making what is going on?

I personally think it's going to be James G. I do wonder if that's your quarterback. I do wonder if they have it in their hip pocket and there's some draft stuff playing out for either them or San Francisco where they won't trade for him if they feel like they can get whoever they want to get or trade up to get them

or San Francisco is going to do something and then make James G expendable. But I feel like those two teams are synced and related in some way. Also, San Francisco owes us a favor. We traded Jimmy G for a second round pick. Belichick. Like he just was trying to spite the crafts.

He's like, fuck you. Fine. You want me to trade Jimmy G? I'm not even getting a first round pick for him. I'll get a second round pick. You guys can go blow off. Um,

yeah, it's been a fun, it's been a fun first few days of free agency where you have just Belichick who's just kind of like in that fuck it mode. It's like drunk house right in the pats. I've kind of enjoyed it. What are you doing about your MVP vets? I had to step in with a joker over the weekend. It was a sizable wager um because it mb missing the games i mean as soon as

the mb injury happened i had to rush to the book to get get something down on joker joker absolutely um unambiguously in the lead now right he he leapfrogs mb at the moment that's the rub for betting on mb right which you knew and you waited you didn't want to do it. It was worth it. I bet him only in the hundreds of dollars when he was over 20-1. I bet him at 22-1 Embiid. So that was a great

return on investment. Where you didn't want to bet him is when he was plus 140 and had played 30 of 36 games and was one awkward two-week fall away from just being completely out of the race. It does feel like it's lined up for LeBron now, though.

Even his stats are starting to pick up again. He's looked a little friskier this week. I think he can smell it now, but I'm with you. We litigated this the other day on the pod, but Jokic, his team's going to have to win more. I think they will have to

ascend in the win totals. Or else LeBron's going to grab it. They're ascending. Yeah, they're doing good. There is a trade. Denver needs to make a trade. They're the desperate team. They're three games behind the Lakers right now. But really, realistically, you need to be

a top four seed to win the MVP. I think after the Westbrook thing, we all learned our lesson, right? That's never happening again. It should never happen again. All right. How are we feeling about the Masters before we go?

Excited. We're exactly three weeks out as you and I sit here recording this today. I'm watching odds of a whole variety of guys out there. The biggest question mark is brooks kepka who had

to withdraw in advance of the players because he had some kind of knee trouble don't like that want him all the way yeah that because he was a bad a bad back guy now we have a knee thing with brooks that's two things yeah the the knee thing has been sort of out there as like a secondary thing that's resulting from the back. So we want him healthy because we've been on an incredible tear with the best guys winning tournaments. DeChambeau, Justin Thomas, Brooks himself won a tournament. We see Jordan Spieth on the leaderboard every week. DJ is playing possum as he always does which is just spectacular um but you know that there this is going to be the only guy that they are that that's also

concerning is rory mcelroy who is in complete disarray missed the cut shot 10 over par at the players um didn't he have he had a kid though didn't he he? He had a kid in the last fall. Yes, he did. Yeah. So maybe, I don't know. He gave a press conference after he missed the cut where he talked about swing changes that he attributed to his kid. No, to Bryson DeChambeau. He watched. He's been watching Bryson go out there and conquer these tough golf courses by blasting the ball all over the place.

And really it's the ability to hit out of deep rough, the power and strength that, that Bryson has out of the rough. And, and Rory's like, I'm, I'm, I'm chasing power.

I changed my swing. It ain't working. I just thought plus 10 at the masters. I mean, at the players time to go back to the drawing board. I don't want them back in the drawing board three weeks before the masters. Yeah. It doesn't sound good. Yeah. John Rahm's 11 to go back to the drawing board. I don't want him back in the drawing board three weeks before the Masters. Yeah, that doesn't sound good.

Yeah. John Rahm's 11-1. Brooks is 12-1. Spee's 12-1. DJ is our favorite at plus 850. Bryson's 9-1. JT's 10-1.

I don't see anybody lurking. We did this when you and Nathan were on the other day. You know, that 50-1 range where like Fleetwood's there and Cameron Champ's 65 to one.

No chance. No way. No. So you don't have your sleeper yet. You want to watch these next two tournaments. Yeah. I mean, there are some old guys

that have been trending like Sergio Garcia is available right now. It's 60 to one. He was 125 to one, but he had a pretty good players. He's down to 42 to one, my friend. Oh my God. Well, I don't like that. I don't like him at that price. Um, but these past,

you know, major winners like Jason day, um, whose ball striking has been good, but his putter, the thing that he's absolutely the very best at what's Jason day available at right now, 41 to one. Okay. So like, you know, again, I could, I could use a little more. I'd like more at 50 to one, but I'm looking at, we, we have this little trend line of, of like former greats, um,

you know, showing well on the, on tour over the last three months or so. Hmm. Well, I look forward to you telling me who to bet on and then being disappointed on the last day when that person loses by two strokes. It's one of my favorite tricks. I look forward to the frantic texts you send Sal and I probably 10 days from now about whether you need to bet on Luca to win MVP. He's 18 to one right now. Not doing that. Not betting on Luca to win the MVP.

I don't believe in Dallas. LeBron plus 155, Jokic plus 220, Embiid plus 650, Harden down to plus 950. He's under 10 to 1. Improbable. No chance. That's a zero chance. Giannis still 16 to 1, which is just a total fuck you to him. He's clearly one of the three candidates. It's going to be bad. I'm going to go

put 50 bucks on Giannis at 16 to 1. I wish I could bet on this stuff. If they reel off 10 more, like if they go nine of the next 10, they're, they're also, they're on a five game winning streak. And he basically took off the first half of that game last night against

Philly and then turned it on and they came back and they wanted overtime. He scored 10 of the 12 points in overtime. And then he sat down on the court in Philly. I mean, I, he's, I, I mean, the thing with Giannis is he's both sides of the ball. So if he just forces us to, you know, and how about this?

The P.J. Tucker thing, crazy underrated. The thing that P.J. Tucker is best at, his single best attribute, is on offense, shooting corner threes. You know who leads the league and assists the corner threes? Giannis the Greek freak. It's a true fact. I thought

P.J. Tucker looked washed. With good reason. What incentive did he have to do anything at all on that Houston team under those circumstances? There were signs in the bubble last year that he was starting to get washed, and he looked washed this year,

and I thought it was a desperate move by Milwaukee. Fine. And it's why we're talking about this at the 50-plus minute mark of this podcast. Yeah. I just feel like, to me, that's more of an indictment of how bad their summer was, right? Like DJ Augustine's in that trade.

They just got rid of Torrey Craig. They traded him to the Suns. And, you know, they did the summer. They did all these things. And we were like, oh, the Bucs. They're beefing up. And it's like, really? Are they? They were. It was Bogdanovich. They did beef up. They were getting a holiday was Bogdanovich. They did beef up.

They were getting a holiday in Bogdanovich. Great. I could have got, I had as good of a chance to get Bogdanovich. He's a restricted free agent. You have to agree to a contract with them. They didn't agree to a contract. That was insane. They had the whole thing worked out. No, they didn't. Somebody got smart

on them. They got busted. So Bucks crunch time. Giannis, PJ Tucker, Middleton, Drew Holiday, and let's say Dante DiFincenzo. Yeah, I love it. You like that? I do. Sure, I do.

Sure. You like that team against Brooklyn? See, my argument against this trade, because I think this was their last trade ship. You need to be Brooklyn. That's who you need to be. You need to be Brooklyn. I'm going to say it again.

You need to be Brooklyn. Kyrene Harden holiday. Can't guard both of those guys. Giannis can guard Durant. Who is guarding the guy drew holiday. Isn't guarding. So I, I, that's not the way that i think about it i because brooklyn is going to get theirs milwaukee's best chance is to slow it down brooklyn's going to score you know however many whatever their their rate of scoring is

they're good you can just like go ahead and it, but you have to slow the game. I think the strategy is to limit their, because you can't outscore them. There's nobody in the NBA that can outscore Brooklyn. So you can't play that game. You have to play a game. And the freak is so uniquely situated to control the flow of the game. If he could just between now and playoff time, just spend time on free throws freak.

Just every single, if he gets good at free throws, that's such a game changer for them. And that's a way that they can control pace, control flow. I remember when you used to say this about Shaq in the late 90s. Yeah. If Shaq can only make free throws, I think you are who you are. His hands are gigantic and the ball doesn't always go where he thinks it's going. It might be. I wonder if Tucker can guard Durant. Like if part of their thinking for this was if

Tucker can handle Durant, then that frees Giannis to just be Giannis and just kind of roam around versus having to be the one that guards Durant. Yeah. Seven foot free safety. I don't, I didn't see it with Tucker. I mean, maybe they can rejuvenate him, but I just felt like he was, I think he's going to be, I think he's going to be juvenated.

All right. So you're buying Buckstock. Well, house, I'll give you the odds for them right now. Before we go, they are plus seven 50 to win the NBA championship. They are plus two 70 to win the NBA championship. They are plus 270 to win the East.

Those are the fairest prices for the Bucs since the freak started his MVP tour two years ago. It's weird that Clippers have better odds than them. I do not see a scenario where the Clippers win the title. Right now in Fando, Lakers plus 280, Nets 3-1, Clippers plus 550, Bucks plus 750, Utah plus 850, Philly 12-1, and Denver's 26-1. To me, Denver's the best bet because we both think they have a trade to make. But anyway. One trade can make a difference. House, great to see you as always. Thanks, buddy. I'm glad your office

is near dunkin donuts it's the best that makes two of us look at this thing it's absolutely glorious the next time we get together it is really spring is happening here on the east coast we're about to have a stretch of warm weather it's a drunk house promise i'm just drinking i'm just gonna i'm just it's gonna start like the people are getting vaccines. People are starting to come back out on the streets. It's going to be warm. Folks will be in fun, warm clothing. We can't talk about it like being, you know, New York. Yeah.

Yeah. Because we're exactly we're too old for it. But yeah, it's stuff is happening. It's coming together. And it really is time. It's the it's it's green light drinking time. That's what I'm telling you. House, check them out on Fairway Rolling,

which is about to heat up with the golf season too. Thanks for coming on. Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Matt James. Thanks to Joe House. We'll be back Sunday night with Rosillo. It's going to be a little Sunday night Rosillo fest.

Hopefully there'll be some NBA trades at that point. We will see. See you Sunday night Rosillo Fest. Hopefully there'll be some NBA trades at that point. We will see. See you Sunday night. Stay safe. Enjoy the weekend. Please be kind to each other. I don't have feelings within On the wayside I'm a person never I don't have feelings within