The Bill Simmons Podcast - Miami’s Upset Potential, Clippers Chaos, the Villainous Astros, and MLB Bubble Playoff Picks With Jackie MacMullan and CC Sabathia 

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares his NBA Finals pick (2:20) before he's joined by renowned sports journalist Jackie MacMullan to discuss the Clippers and Doc Rivers parting ways, the Clippers' playoffs collapse, the Celtics' playoffs exit, enticing NBA Finals story lines, and more (6:00). Then Bill talks with World Series champion CC Sabathia about the MLB playoffs, the New York Yankees taking care of business against the Cleveland Indians, World Series predictions, the age-old question of restructuring the MLB season, NBA Finals, NFL excitement, and more (1:10:14). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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35% alcohol by volume. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network and theringer.com. We have a couple of things for you in store. After game one of the NBA Finals, the Ringer NBA show will be going live, basically right after. I think it'll be on Twitter

and we'll be running the podcast on Ringer NBA as well. And then I am bringing my act with Rosillo from this podcast to Rosillo's podcast on Wednesday night, right after that game ends, we're still in our taping. We're doing our thing this week, uh, on his turf, breaking down game one, everything we saw, and that will run late, late, late night on Wednesday. So he will not be on this podcast this week. I have a great one for you coming up. Going to do my NBA Finals pick at the top. Jackie McMullen talking about a whole bunch of great NBA subplots going on right now, plus the Finals.

And then CeCe Sabathia, baseball playoffs, a whole lot more. Very excited for this one. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, before we get to Jackie, just quickly want to give my final pick because I mentioned during the back and forth that we had that I was leaning toward Miami. I'm just going to say this now because this is going up shortly, late, late Tuesday night.

I'm picking Miami in six, and I really feel strongly about it. I really think they have an excellent chance of winning this series. I go into it in some detail in the Jackie part of this, so I don't want to step on that. But Miami in six, it's 10 to one odds right now. I just think the odds are the best. The two bets that I like are Miami in six or Lakers in seven, which is plus 470. I think this is a great matchup for Miami because they have a ton of guys to throw at LeBron James. Three-point shooting, two guards that are going to have the upper hand against basically anybody that the Lakers throw at them. And their biggest issue is going to be Davis and size. And the Lakers going big, offensive rebounds, all that stuff, getting Bam into foul trouble, Miami possibly having to play Myers Leonard a little bit.

I get it. I'm just not worried about it. I love the chip on the shoulder that Miami has and the nobody-believes-in-us factor with them, all that stuff. They are not going to back down to this Lakers team. I was so impressed with them in the bubble. I think they're just an excellent basketball team. And then you look at that Celtics series. They didn't even shoot that well in the first five games.

They finally got it going in game six. But they just know how to hang around in these games. They know how to make these quick runs. And I think they're a fantastic team. And I like the symmetry of them stealing a title from LeBron. It's the most fun pick. I also think it's the most logical pick because I think they have a better all-around team. The X factor for them is if Davis just destroys them. They're going to be able, they're not going to contain LeBron, but they're going to be able to make them work for it. They're going to pressure

on full court. They're going to do all the stuff the previous three playoff teams didn't do against the Lakers. They're going to throw multiple guys at them, and they're going to make it difficult for them. They're going to try to replicate the success that the Clippers had against the Lakers in the few games that they played, where he'll get his numbers, but they're going to make them work really hard for it. Davis is a different problem because Bam is really the only guy to handle him. And the foul trouble game to game with Bam is going to be an issue. But I just think this Miami team, fantastic coach, a lot of talent. Somebody can step up in every quarter, every half, every game. You just don't know. And after fighting them for six

games with my favorite team, I left it going, man, that team is really, really, really good. And they have some gamers, Dragic, Butler, Hero, Bam. There's an 0-4 Pistons vibe with them. It's completely different situation. Jack and I talked about that in a second, but there's a little bit of a vibe that reminds me of that 0-4 Pistons chip on the shoulder team. And I think they're going to win. I do. You're going to say, of course you do. You hit the Lakers. You know what I love? Being right and winning money. And I like Miami in six, 10-1, great. Sign me up. They're not going to win in four or five.

And if there's a game seven, LeBron will get every call and the Lakers will win. And that's just how it's going to play out. Let's be honest. So they have to take care of this in six and we'll see how it goes. Miami in six, that's my pick. Bring it in Jackie right now.

All right, we're taping this on Tuesday morning. So if anything happens NBA wise between now and when you hear it, I apologize. Jackie McMullen is here. A lot of NBA news. First of all, we had the last game of the previous round was on a Sunday night. And then we had this nice little buffer until the finals,

which is fun because now we can talk about legacies. Right. You kind of hope some NBA news happens. Then the Clippers just dropped a bomb with the Doc Rivers thing, which I know you've been talking about on the ESPN outlets, but I was surprised. I thought it was one of those things that if it happened, it was going to happen within the first 72, 96 hours, whatever.

Right. What do you think changed over the last week and a half? Well, I don't know. And I got a text from Doc at three o'clock in the morning, my time last night. So I didn't get a chance to talk to him yet. I hope to, but I'm just, this is a guess, an educated guess. Ballmer's a bottom line, bottom line guy, right? He's a hard line businessman, bottom line guy. I think there was always reservations about Doc because we saw him lose some of his power anyway under Balmer. There was that 3-1 lead that was lost under Balmer, the first one. So I just think there's been

reticence all along with him because I think Balmer looks at things pragmatically as a business owner and not emotionally. I'm an emotional person that makes emotional decisions, which is why I'd be a horrible coach. I would never be a good coach for that reason. And so I don't know if it's just over the next few days. I'm assuming they had meetings. And again, this is just an educated guess that Balmer said, talk me out of this. And Doc wasn't able to, you know? Right. So the other thing I wonder about, one other thing I wonder about, Bill, is did he talk

to players? Was there a message from the players that we weren't expecting? Because I always think as Doc, as a champion of players and players responding very highly to Doc, was there a message in there? And again, this is pure conjecture on my part. I don't know. I don't know the answer yet. We'll find out very soon, I'm sure. So that was my first reaction when I heard about this, because I just don't think NBA franchises make moves without consulting either

their best player or their best two players, depending on who it is. Like when the Lakers were getting rid of Luke Walton last year, I promise you they asked LeBron what he thought. And this goes back. Wait a minute. I'm going to stop you right there. All year long, LeBron and Prince Paul were saying we got to get rid of Luke Walton. Come on now. They didn't have to ask him. They told us unsolicited. But this goes back 40 years because I was reading, I just read Jeff Perlman's two Laker books, including Showtime, which I'd already read, but I read again. And then I was reading Pat Riley's book as well that he wrote in 87. Magic was the first time this happened where magic's friendly with Jerry bus. He's unhappy. He starts talking. And the next thing you know, Paul Westhead is out. So we have a 40 year history of this.

And my guess is they gave up so much for Kawhi and Paul George, and they went all in for this two-year window. They blew the first year. Something was clearly wrong with this team all year, and we were looking at them going, well, now they have an on-off switch. It's weird. Yeah, it's weird. They're acting like champions

when they haven't won anything yet. The load management thing was weird. Then we had the pandemic, but we always thought, well, on paper, this is the most talented team. They never figured it out. And my guess is Balmer had to have talked to those guys because that's how the NBA works, right?

And then they didn't stick up for him. Okay, but here's my question. If you're Balmer and you just watched what you watched, do you even care what they think? True. I mean, really, if you were watching and you're like, what the heck is wrong with you guys? That would be my first question.

And then if they said, well, the coach, this, the coach, that, how much credibility do you give them? That's my only question, you know? And I, and I do, I do think this, you know, I'm kind of hard on Paul George for obvious reasons. I think he really disappeared in that series against Denver. But the more I hear, the more I talk to people who are exiting the bubble and have now been out of the bubble a week or two, and I'm hoping to report this in full, really flush it

out, is it was just tough in there and it wasn't for everybody. And people, it really affected players adversely, severely, adversely. And I think Paul George, well, I mean, he said he was one of them. I'm not even talking out of school here. Paul George said himself, he was struggling with it, depressed, felt some depression. So I just think the bubble has had a major impact on some of the biggest players in the game. Some of it, it's been positive. A guy like Jimmy Butler, he's like, bring it on. That's his personality. Yeah, this is tough. Awesome. Give me more. I think LeBron James to a certain degree has been like that. So I almost feel now a little bad a few days out from being so tough on Paul George, because I'm a believer that mental health is a real thing. It's the same thing as a sprained ankle or a ripped shoulder. And maybe we should pause and give this a little more attention. So for what that's worth. That's fair because I think what we've learned from the bubble, not just with sports, but in real life is it exacerbates

whatever problems are probably bubbling underneath the surface. Like if you have some couple you're friends with that have a rocky relationship and now they're stuck together for seven months, it might not be great. I think this Clippers team, it was a weird mix the whole time. They were thrown together. And it made me think like, how many times has this worked where we've created the super team and we've thrown dudes together and crossed our fingers and hoped it worked? I mean, because the Miami situation was so unique. They had LeBron, who's one of the three best players of all time, at the peak of his

powers during that. Along withron, who's one of the three best players of all time at the peak of his powers during that, along with Wade, who at least in 2011 was a top three guy and the league's a little diluted at that point. And they ended up making four straight finals and winning two titles. It doesn't always work out that way. When you throw teams together, you go back over NBA history. Usually it's rocky that first year. Well, that's my point. And that's why I'm surprised Ballmer did this because I get that Doc has been with the Clippers seven years, but he's been with this team one year and isn't the whole idea. Let's run it back and see what they've learned. Let's see what I've learned. Let's take the hurt from this experience, the criticism from this experience and come back

and win it because of it. And that's what happened with LeBron and the Heat. That's exactly what happened. LeBron says all the time, it was the turning point of his career. So that's why I think if I'm Balmer, I would have given Doc one more year. I would have. I would have given them all one more year to learn from this hurt, from this devastation, from this underachieving, with a capital U. And what are you made of and what are you going to do about it? I think a big part of this was the situation Balmer walked into with Doc. And I've had season tickets for the Clippers since 04. And when the Sterling thing went down in 2014, and not only was all of a sudden,

he eventually ends up selling the team, but you have that, but you also have the executives that were attached to him. They lose their power, all this stuff. And there was this crazy power vacuum where the organization itself, I'm talking like ticket guys, ticket ladies, marketing people, all of them were like, who the fuck are we

working for? Right, right. And by all accounts, and it's documented at the time, it was what I heard, like Doc was absolutely amazing in that situation and became kind of the guy for the Clippers. And that's how we ended up getting the GM coach power, which fundamentally, if we've learned anything from the 2010s, nobody should have those two jobs at the same time.

But I think Balmer walks into that. He doesn't know anything about basketball. He's a successful businessman. Doc has this oversized power over the franchise and rightly so, because all the stuff he did and he kind of trusts him. And he's like, all right, let's you you do everything i'm going to listen to you and bombers on record two years ago is saying that was a huge mistake i shouldn't have done that i should have built a front office so i wonder year by year if he lost confidence in doc especially because they didn't

they never made a conference final so at some point i look at it and you are who you are right and all that's true and listen doc's the first to admit he's got to take responsibility, some responsibility for what happened. I mean, it was just one of the biggest colossal collapses. I don't know. Is it hyperbole to say in NBA history? Because it feels a little bit like that. It's not hyperbole. No, I don't think it is either. So does Doc hold some responsibility? Of course he does. Absolutely. But I guess I just thought

with his credibility, with his credentials, and the fact that Kawhi and Paul George wanted to play for him, that's why they went to LA. And that was, if you believe

everything we've read and heard, that was one of the tipping points. You have Doc. That's why we're coming. So what has changed in this calendar year? I don't know the answer to that. And what can we criticize Doc for? He went with Montrezl Harrell too long. There's plenty of X and O's things. But as one of his confidants and friends said to me, so you're going to criticize a coach for believing in a guy a little too much.

Well, yeah, that's the landscape we're in. That's the way it works in the NBA now, right? But so I don't know if Ballmer's just saying, all right, this guy, I need someone that's cutthroat like me or cutthroat, you know, business, all business, like X's and O's, bottom line, that's what I need. So I don't really know the answer. But I will say this, when you go back and look at the history of firing coaches after they've had these 55 win seasons it doesn't really work out that well for the next guy it doesn't now this team is my goodness on a platter but I always think back to like you know we talk about super teams pointing against super teams it didn't work I always think about that Lakers team that imported Carmelone and

Gary Payton and all those guys and on on paper, that should have just been unbelievable. But meanwhile, you know, Colby and Shaq are being separated because they're going to hit each other at a huge, you know, I mean, Shaq's going to kill him. And I guess in Shaq's book, which I can't wait to read, there was a pickup game where he did actually hit him. But, you know, I remember reporting from, I forget which book I did, that there was this big meeting where it was after Colby went to Jim Gray and gave him that interview and pretty much was passive aggressively just killing Shaq.

And Shaq's like, I'm going to murder him with my bare hands. And, you know, Peyton and Malone and Brian Shaw, they got to go down there and literally stop this from happening. So in a perfect world, that team should have been amazing. And it wasn't, and it was, you know, think of the hall of famers on that team. So, and that's happened a lot over the years. Yeah. You make a good point about the next guy. Cause we saw that in Boston with Casey Jones, you were covering that team. The last couple of years we're all complaining about, and he's not, won't play work. He's didn't play Reggie Lewis in 88.

The offense is too stale. We keep blowing leads at the end and pick them apart, pick them apart. And then the Celtics after the 88 playoffs are like, yeah, his time has come and gone. We're going to promote Jimmy Rogers. And it was a disaster. Oh my God. The biggest disaster.

Yeah. And I always say that when people talk about the assistant coaches, these great assistant coaches and Jimmy Rogers might be one of the greatest assistant coaches of all time for real. I mean, the players trusted him. They believed in him. He worked on it. He could challenge them. And then he just went six inches over to the left to be the head coach. And his, you know, his physical appearance changed. I mean, he had blotchy skin. Like the pressure for him, for whatever reason, was a problem. And he's just one of the finest men I know, Jimmy Rogers.

I can't say enough nice things about him. But when he became the head coach, he became a different person. And that happens a lot. And that's why I'm always watching Ty Lue, and I'm like, man, that dude is consistent, you know? It doesn't matter if he's in that Nazi or that seat or as a player, like he is just the same everywhere he is. So, you know, maybe he's Ballmer's guy.

Maybe he is. I don't know. I wonder if there's like a six, seven year shelf life with any coach, with the obvious exception of Popovich. But even you look at Riley, by the 89 Lakers season, the Lakers had tuned out Riley completely. And he's one of the four best coaches of all time, seven years. Could be. And also think about it, but the personnel changed so dramatically in that seven years. It's not like you're talking to the same player, like, like in Boston, you know, when you

had bird trash, Mikhail, I mean, one of the problems, well, the obvious problem was this just out injuries that Mikhail bird just to a lesser degree parish, you know, you had bird prash mikhail i mean one of the problems well the obvious problem was this just out injuries that mikhail bird just to a lesser degree perish you know they all just fell apart physically but the other thing was they were together a really really long time and they went through different coaches you know fitch i mean there was a mutiny to get rid of fitch that bird wasn't part of and really i'm not sure he ever forgave his teammates that were part of that he still says bill fitch is the best coach he ever had. So, you know, you go through those longevity. That's one thing.

But these guys were together like 12 minutes. Yeah. Well, one other thing. I personally thought he did a terrible job in the bubble playoffs. Like I thought that Denver series, you know, if you just remove everything else, you just be like, was that a fireable series for a coach? My answer would be yes. I thought they were more talented

and I thought Denver just outwitted them the whole time. But where it gets tough with Doc, and I had a couple people text me this yesterday in the league, and I'm sure you did too. He has outsized importance in the league as a leader, as a respected black voice. And with the coaching

community, I mean, he's, he's probably him and Popovich are the two most important guys. And I think the general consensus was like, we can't lose doc from the league. Like somebody else has to hire him. And it seems like from everything I'm hearing, we're taping this, it's like eight o'clock in the morning, my time right now, it seems like Philly, if they can make a deal, that's going to be the team. That's a really interesting situation for him to walk into, right? You have this weird Embiid-Simmons thing. It's this clumsy kind of roster. And if anything, I think that's pretty risky for him. What do you think about him and Philly? I just think he'll, because I've seen him do it. He'll, he'll hypnotize in bead and Ben Simmons.

He'll take them to an art museum or to a, you know, on a duck boat. Do they have duck boats in Philadelphia? I don't know. Probably, probably somewhere. I don't know. They couldn't possibly be like the swan boats in Boston, but anyway, he'll find something to do to bring these guys together. Cause that's what he's really good at. And he'll talk about, you know, know I I just know Doc's a lifer feels like a lifer to me maybe he needs a break maybe it'd be good for him to take a year and just catch his breath because you'd only be that more sought after and more valuable if he does uh I think there'll be plenty of teams

interested and I'm sure Philly is and and if Ty Lue becomes the new clippers coach that takes him out of that mix although we keep hearing dan tony anyway it's it's a very interesting if i'm doc i'm just taking the year off man i'm just gonna take a year off and take stock of what just happened what's my role in it he's getting paid ability to have yeah yeah just a year. Just take a year and just catch my breath. Now, there's been a lot of coaches fired, as you know, in the last few weeks. I've talked to almost all of them. I talked to one yesterday. And he's like, my son keeps saying, that narrows it down to coaches who have sons.

Why do you want to keep doing this? We have all the security security we need we love you you've you've accomplished so much anybody that becomes an NBA coach has accomplished so much like why do you want to keep doing this just take a time for yourself like you look horrible just give yourself a break get yourself some rest get yourself fit like just cool it you know and so doesn't that apply to doc in some ways, he's got grandchildren now, like just take a year. I don't know if he's listening. Take a year doc, take a year, man. It's a brilliant move. Figure this out, figure this out and you'll be more

sought after than ever. And, and you can sit back and watch whether the Clippers win at all, or they don't, you know, I don't know. I just think, uh, but I understand the mentality. And so do you, because we're the same. I mean, we can't live without this game. It's ridiculous. I wish I had other hobbies. I do have some, but none of them overtake me the way this does.

Like I can't live without basketball, you know? The move is to take a year off. I don't think he will because we've seen it over and over again. Your stock just goes up, especially like he'll do TV for a year. He'll be amazing. He was one of the best TV color guys we've had. Like it's basically him and Steve Kerr. I think we're the two best. Um, so he does that for a year. The question for me is like, so the two available jobs and I I've heard Houston's going after him pretty hard too.

And that's been reported. Right. I wouldn't go near Houston. Cause I think that's Loserville. You're just, you're never winning a title with that team. Philly. I could see yourself. I could see him sitting on the deck at his house in Malibu, wherever he is just kind of looking on the ocean, thinking about him bead. Right. Oh man. If I could get him beat in shape, if I can reach that bead, that team has so much talent. I really want to prove that I can get back to the finals.

This might actually light a fire under them. So that Philly job's a tough job to turn down, as weird as that roster is. No, it is. But here's the other side of it. What if you're sitting on your deck in Calaboo and making reservations for Nobu? And I think, man, why don't I just take a year

to figure out what the best job is for me? Not to grab the next job to validate myself. I don't need validation. Everybody knows where I stand in the hierarchy of things. Why should I put myself through this? Because if it doesn't work in Philly, now you're sort of one of those guys like, I don't know how many more chances do I get? You know, like it's crazy to say that.

But that's his fourth team. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of... Whatever his next team is. He had Orlando. He was in Boston for a while. Right. And then the seven years with the Clippers. I'm sorry. That's going to be tough on his resume. Of course it is. Yeah. Not ever making a conference finals.

Yeah. And you don't think he doesn't know that? So if Doc is smart, he'll take a look at that view from his deck. We're assuming he has a nice teak deck. I bet he has somebody else staying in for him. We stay in our own deck. It's a messy job, I'm just going to tell you.

I think he should just say, you know what? Standing pat. I'm standing pat. He will. I don't think he will, but he should. Let's take a break to talk about Roman. If you were to guess on average how many days people in days people in the US have to wait to see a doctor, what would you say?

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slash bill for a free online visit and free two-day shipping. Let's talk about another team that's reeling right now, the Celtics. I want to talk about the finals in a second, but... Yeah. So that Celtics series and the Celtics playoff run, I said this probably a month ago on this pod. I felt like everybody thinks of them as a young team. Oh, this is the first of many chances. First of all, they've been in three conference finals in four years.

I felt like the window in a lot of ways was now because you have this great contract situation. Tatum's not even a max player yet. You've had all these draft picks. You have a situation where Milwaukee,

who's in Philly, who are your two biggest rivals going into the season, are both exterminated before we even get to round three. 100%. On the West, you have this weird Lakers team that's really a two-man team.

And it was just sitting there for them. And I went from being like, man, what an amazing year. The conference finals. Right, exactly. Such a jump from last year with Kyrie. It was so unhappy. I really took that loss hard as a fan because I was like, man, it was just sitting there

and I feel like Miami just out fought them and they win three of the four games basically by in the fourth quarter being tougher, um, by coming through in big moments by outwitting the Celts with the out, definitely out coaching them. I think this one's going to sting. I don't, I don't feel like this was like a cool. We made the conference finals. The more I'm thinking about it, I'm like, man, you only have so many windows at these and I blew it. And, um, it's funny if I had said to you before the playoffs started or this season, let's say before the season started. And if I said to you, yeah, the Celtics are going to lose in six games in the conference finals, you'd be like, I'll take that because if you lose to the bucks and it's a bad matchup and Giannis is,

you know, Adonis and it's all good, but you're right. This, this landscape is completely different. And I didn't like, and maybe it's just player speak, but I didn't like what I heard after they lost, like right after the loss, I wanted to hear, we need to be tougher. We need to be better. And I heard, this was an amazing year. I love my teammates. And I was like, whoa, really?

I mean, I get that. I get that because their future is still really, really good. They don't have to, unlike some of these other teams, like the Sixers, who have to decide schematically, like we don't work. Do we send one of the big two? They don't have any of those kind of decisions. Their only thing is, Gordon Hayward's going to pick up his option. You're going to pay Jason Tatum the max. You have to decide whether you keep Shemmy Ojale, which I'm

pretty sure they won't. You're going to pick up Daniel Tice's, whatever it is, $5 million. I mean, it's low money. Oh, that's Cantor. I mean, I think his money is even lower. So you don't have- Both of them are their option. Right. So these are low level decisions in many ways, unless you decide we're going to, we can't play position as basketball. We have to have at least one dominant big, you know, then, then you have some big decisions to make. But so to me, it was like, you see Miami and I have so much respect for Miami.

I had to before the Caesars started. I totally misjudged some of their talent. I felt like I was way off. They're much better. They're much smarter. They're much. Well, I know you know they're going to be well coached with Spolster. So you look at this and it's just like how because if it was just a matter of talent or – and Miami was better. Miami deserved to win, let's be clear. The right team won for all the right reasons. Totally agree.

They were tougher. They were more disciplined. They played better defense. All those things are true. And I don't want to take anything away from Miami because they're just an incredible story. I'm just enjoying it so much. But if you're the Celtics, you just imploded.

Like in the fourth quarter, you, you things start to go bad and you just start jacking up threes. And it's like, again, we're doing this. That's the part. I just, I didn't understand it. And you know, when the heat was trailing in that game, game six, I was watching Butler and I was watching Iggy. Iggy is one of my favorite players just i mean he's everybody's favorite player so tough so smart so clever and you thought earlier in the

series like well i don't know maybe he doesn't fit in this series spole wasn't playing him very much he looked a little rusty i mean think about it you didn't play most of the year and then all of a sudden you you watch them when when they're down and they don't panic. They don't do anything but just dig a little deeper, make an extra pass, make the right play. Patience. Patience is the sign of a veteran elite team. And there was no patience when it came to Boston. And that surprised me because I feel like they've been around long enough

that they should understand that. And they didn't. They didn't. I rewatched the fourth quarter, which was awful watching it live and was even worse on a rewatch. They completely fell apart. I mean, people know they're up 96,

90 and the heat go on like a 35 to five run, but the heat scored on 10 straight possessions. They, they did everything they wanted and you can, you can visibly see the Celtics kind of falling apart and shrinking from the moment. And what was frustrating to me and then here and after it's like, well, they're a young team. It's first of many times. It's like, are they a young team? Cause they have two veterans that they're paying combined 60 million a year. Kemba and Hayward who are at their veteran peaks, who are supposed to be the experienced guys for these situations, Tatum and Brown Brown's been in three conference finals.

Tatum, this was his second. He went toe to toe with LeBron, uh, smart spending a bunch of big games. He's probably played 70, 75 playoff games at this point. And you look at Miami and the other side, it's like, what game has hero been in? What game has Duncan Robinson been in? What big playoff games has Bam been in? Why is the Celtics the young team? I just think that Miami was tougher and better coached. And it was a tough Stevens series. It really was.

I thought Nurse took it to him in round two in a lot of ways. And that series probably shouldn't have gone seven. And then this series, like Spoh definitely always had this extra something to bring to the table every game well and i thought to just you know he went with tice and tice tice was really he had a really good year underrated you know doesn't make any money gets every file called on him it's unbelievable doesn't matter and when he gets hit he gets hammered going the best he never gets a i have some sympathy for him but in this game in that fourth quarter you could not play him yeah

when grant williams was on the floor i think they were a plus 24 or something crazy and they could switch on d all that yeah i mean just grant williams should have been in the game and i think brad knew it and again it's uh you know his mean, Hayward did not have it clearly in that game. And that also hurt, I felt, just they went with Hayward too long. He just was having, and listen, I will, and people don't like to make excuses for players if they're hurt or not. I don't, I'm not, I don't agree with that. I think Hayward came back three weeks too early and he did it because the team needed

him and he knew he should play. You know, I remember early on, right after he had that injury, one of the things that happened to him is one of the nerves got irritated in his ankle. He was in excruciating pain for like the first week after that happened, aside from all the other ligament damage and everything else. So he gutted out, he came back and, you know, Mark Jackson kept saying on the broadcast, well, you know, if you're out there, I don't want to hear about no excuses. Well, come on. That to me isn't quite right.

And Gordon Hayward probably shouldn't have been playing. But when he was ineffective, then you've got to take him out. And you've got to stop going to him. Well, that's been Stevens' blind spot for the last three years. My dad and I have talked about this endlessly. My dad was here this weekend. It's almost like the high school coach and his son where the coach can't look at it rationally or objectively at all. And Hayward has had these

moments the last three years, which is clear. He wasn't right on the court for different reasons, right? He came back from the terrible injury and there were times he just didn't look comfortable and aggressive and anything. Uh, when he came back from the broken hand this year, he didn't look right for a while. And Stevens was just going to ride him and really trusted anything. When he came back from the broken hand this year, he didn't look right for a while. And Stevens was just going to ride him and really trusted him. And he trusts him because of shit that goes way back to Butler.

But in this game, it wasn't the game for him. You could see it when he's missing layups and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, it's out. That was like, wow. I was like, but I think it was because I watched it. I rewatched that because I was trying to figure out, I don't know if you noticed that he had no lift on the layout.

That's what it was. He couldn't, I don't think he could jump. Right. For real. So, so I'm, you know, now. Are you sure he's going to opt in? Oh, come on. Who's going to pay him $32 million. I'm not saying that I'm saying the opt out do the long. Cause we've seen that a couple of times in recent years where the guy opts out and takes 85 for four. He might,

that's, that's a possibility. And you've got this injury history now, which everyone gets mad at me. Gordon Hayward fans are like injury history. I'm like, well, he has been injured. I mean, they're freak injuries. I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that he hasn't been able to fulfill his contract with Boston. It's very unfortunate. And it is related to injury and I feel for the guy, but if you're the Celtics, do you want to have them opt out and extend them for how long? I don't know. Like what's your, I think they believe in him.

I do think Danny and Brad still believe in, in, in Gordon Hayward. And to be honest, so do I, when he's healthy, I believe in him too, because what he did this year, when he was healthy, doesn't get talked about enough. Think about it. Gordon Hayward in Utah is your main option. He's a 20-point-a-game scorer. He's a volume scorer, and he's important to you. And then he comes to Boston. You're thinking maybe he could do that. Then he gets hurt, and all these things happen. These young guys come. So this year, what did he do? He had very few touches really when you think about it and he maximized him with really quite good efficiency and he was the best facilitator they had on the

floor he really was he he just he made plays and often he didn't always get the assist there was a hockey assist the gretzky assist sometimes but so i admire what he did this year he never complained about it he fit in in a way that i'm sure was not how he envisioned it when he came to Boston. He's like, all right, well, this is what I have to do to contribute to the team. And he did. And I think the players appreciated it because if you were Jalen Brown, for instance, a year earlier, and you're like, man, what do I have to do to get my minutes and get my shots? If I'm Jalen Brown, by the way, I'm still thinking that after the series, he was my favorite Celtic from start to finish. He was awesome.

Think about what he did. He guarded Adebayo. He guarded Hero. He guarded Drogic. He guarded Bam in some situations. I'm leaving people out. Duncan Robinson. He's turned into the McHale for this.

Not that Tatum's bird, but there's definitely a bird McHale dynamic. There were games where McHale was the best guy on the floor, but there's definitely a bird McHale dynamic where there were games where McHale was the best guy on the floor, but it was always the bird shadow. I think people gravitate to Tatum when they watch the team, but Jalen's the most reliable guy they have. Well, he wasn't this series for sure. And offensively he was too, those corner threes. And again, so I love Marcus Smart. I've watched that kid. I've covered, I feel like almost every game he's ever played since he got here. I've watched him go from a kid that couldn't even hit the rim when he was taking threes,

you know, NBA threes, to really turn himself into a very serviceable, solid offensive player. And we know that he's just, you know, otherworldly defensively. I'm the president of his fan club, but he took 22 shots in game six. Kemba took 15, and I think Jalen Brown took 17. That doesn't work. That doesn't work. Listen, you could just go look at games where Smart has taken like 19 shots or more, 10 threes or more.

It's never good. And when they're at their best, it's always like he's got nine points, nine rebounds, eight assists, two steals, eight shots, something like that. He doesn't see it. I do wonder, I think this is a pivotal summer for them. And I know it's a pivotal summer for anybody, but this is really the last

year that they have some roster options because Tatum's going to get the max, super max, whatever the hell he ends up with. Brown's locked in. Kemba's making $30 million a year. Hayward is in the last year of his deal. So it's either he's going to be an expiring contract heading into this last season, or you redo the deal for less.

They have the Tice-Canter thing to figure out. They have a $5.7 million exemption. They're going to be over the tax for the next five years. Yeah, no matter what. And they have three, I don't know. I think they have like 14, 22 and 26,

something like that. But if there was ever a year for them to make a move, if they loved the guy in the top seven in the draft, or if they wanted to use Hayward's contract with all of their picks to go after somebody else, if they wanted to trade Kemba and Tice for Porzingis, like whatever the, whatever the big monster move is. Good luck, Bill. That's never happening, my friend. Never happening. Porzingis, maybe declining stock. But I do think they're very aware.

Oh my God, you're still a Celtics fan at heart, aren't you? I think they're very aware this is the pivotal summer Cause they kind of blew it last summer. They really did. They, they, when you think about like the last two rounds, Williams was the only draft pick who played even a little and he barely played. I mean,

he made two threes, the whole Miami series. And it was a pretty good draft. There were a lot of good dudes in there and they kind of whiffed. Right. Right. No, all that is true.

It's interesting that, um, ball was in Boston. Someone saw him, someone from the Lawrence Eagle Tribune somehow saw him. He was in Boston. Lonzo Ball? No, no, no. LaMelo. LaMelo Ball was in Boston? Yeah, he was. And the word on the street was that he was working out for the Celtics or was visiting with the Celtics. So I don't know what to make of that. It's not my report. Some Eagle eye from the Lawrence Eagle Tribune found out about that. I thought that was

very interesting. I think there's trade-off potential for them because the teams in the top seven are not necessarily a hundred percent delighted with being in the top seven. Maybe they'll love somebody, but you look at a team like the Pistons, Pistons have the seventh pick. They probably have the most barren talent roster in the league. They're tied to Blake and Drummond. Luke Kennard. The rookie they took last year was pretty good.

But for the most part, they kind of need young guys and to take swings. This is a draft where if you get past the 10th pick, you can take swings. You might end up with the Bam Adebayo type of end of the lottery, post-lottery kind of stuff. Yeah, Pascal Siakam.

Yeah, so I think this is a draft where if you love somebody in the top seven, you could potentially move up with picks and some other stuff. Yeah, so they've got Memphis' 14th pick. Their own pick, I think, is 26, and then they have Milwaukee's pick, which is 30 in the first round, and then they have Brooklyn's pick in the second round so they do have some some options

it'll be interesting to see i think you know the gordon hayward decision is an interesting one i do think they still believe in him i your point's a good one they may just do that have him opt out and spread it out over three or four years or Or you have mopped out, spread it out and you traded in Indiana for miles Turner. And if you're the Haywards, you're like, Boston was a nightmare. Everything went wrong from day one. Fresh start.

We're back home. Yeah. And then if you're Boston, you're like, Hey, miles Turner on a good night. Kind of like, but you know,

I'd rather have Sabonis. I love Sabonis. I'd rather have Sabonis. I love Sabonis as well. Let's takeonis. I love Sabonis as well. Let's take a break to talk about Bacardi Spice Rum. You love the classic. Now you'll love the new Bacardi Spice Rum. Sip along with your friends.

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Drink responsibly. Bacardi USA, Coral Gables, Florida. Rum with natural flavors and spices. 35% alcohol by volume. All right. Let's talk about a couple final storylines. One is Miami. Bam said it in the post-game interview after game six. This is the reason I love them heading into the bubble, why I love them heading into the playoffs, and why I kind of like them as a sneaky finals pick. I haven't decided if I'm picking them yet. I'll

announce it somewhere before Wednesday night. They're a chip-on-the-shoulder team. Bam said it. Every guy in this roster is mad about something. It felt like they were undervalued, underappreciated, didn't get their just due, had to fight for what they got. Those are the type of teams that win the title.

And they've been compared to the 2004 Pistons a little bit over the last few weeks. I think it's a really good comparison, not from a style of play, but when you look at the mechanics and the personality of that Pistons team and what made them succeed, it was all these dudes who had just this incredible amount to prove. They did. Which reminds me of the Miami team.

But they were nastier. Well, I guess, I mean, Rasheed is so nasty, but I guess Jimmy Butler matches him for nastiness. The rest of those guys, Ben Wallace, he was nasty. It was a different era for the league, too. It was a way more physical team than what we have now. That's not a bad comparison. The thing about them that interests me when

I watch them is, like, Tyler Hero in that game the other night, he got stripped. I think it was Jalen Brown. Did Jalen Brown strip him was i think it was jalen brown did jalen brown strip him i think it was jalen brown tyler got stripped two times yeah right and he's looking at the referee he's stared down the referee like he's been in the league five years and i'm like yo kid you know what are you doing but i love it i mean i love it but i'm like whoa there's just there's so there's an edge to him that i don't think we've even scratched the surface of yet. I really don't.

And he's the one that I just, he just amazes me. I didn't watch Miami enough. I wish I had watched them more. I would have understood how important he is. Dragic is another one who has that kind of fire to him. That he's had dating back to Phoenix when he was Nash's caddy for like probably two, too many years, but could come in and swing playoff games and carried himself almost like the type of player that would kill America in the Olympics in like 2004. He had that kind of vibe to him.

Monogenobly for instance. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's funny if you, I was thinking about him too, because they don't finish games with him. As you know, you know, he's usually not like the end of the game. They're going with Iggy and this guy's been so important to them and they show him on the sidelines and he's screaming and cheering for everyone like that's the other thing there's there's no there's no at least that I can see internal drama about who's playing and who isn't like Kelly Olenek didn't play at all the last two whatever games Derek Jones plays important minutes and then you don't ever see him again

that reminds me a little bit of what Malone was doing with the Nuggets I liked it you know like he leaned on um PJ Dozier in that one game and PJ Dozier was amazing then he was a DMP the next game yeah and and that tells me when you can do that that tells me that there's just an understanding within your group and with your coaching staff about how this is going to work. And we have no time for any of the histronics that are going to go on about playing time or shots or who gets this or who gets that. I think that's really important, too. Because, you know, Davis, Anthony Davis, in some of those Laker games, he was getting really frustrated. Like, give me the ball.

You know, how come I'm not getting the ball? I thought that was interesting. Well, especially his reaction after the game winner where he was kind of angry. Yeah. He kind of had this attitude like, yeah, I can do this all the time. I said this on Sunday and I wanted to throw this at you. One of the reasons I think Miami has a real chance in this series is they are not going to be deferential to LeBron at all. And I think what we've seen in these playoffs, especially,

and really all season, and it's mainly because of everything LeBron's built as one of the greatest players ever, his stature, the fact that he's going against dudes who grew up idolizing him. Michael Porter's covering him, and Michael Porter's like,

I've been playing this guy in video games since I was eight years old. I can't believe I'm guarding LeBron. And I do think teams were really deferential to him, especially Denver. I was shocked by, they just let him waltz up the court. He's, he's basically playing point guard. They're not pressuring him at all. He's 35 years old. They're not making a move. They're not trash talking them. They're not hard fouling him and staring at him for an extra second. And he was just the alpha dog of that series in so many ways.

I think Miami is going to approach it completely differently. I think they're going to be trying to mess with him, get in his head. They're going to be really physical when he's bitching at the refs. They're going to be bitching at him to shut up and play.

And they're not going to be differential at all. And I actually think that's the way it has to be if you're trying to beat them. Well, you're right about one thing. The one thing you have to try to do to beat LeBron James is tire him out. You got to make them work on the defensive end. You got to,

you know, and that's what San Antonio did so beautifully all the way back in 2014. That's how they beat. They beat the heat was they kept moving the ball, moving the ball, moving the ball, which Miami can do. And it requires you to recover,

recover, recover. And it's exhausting to do that, especially when you're 35. Yeah. And, and you know, he's,

I will say this though, in that game, the clinching game, he took that game by the throat. He did the first two minutes and he never let go. I thought it was one of the best wire to wire games he might've ever had. And I say that because he was shooting, you know, I expect him to drive and score. I expect that all the time. I, you know, he's been playing good

defense all year, consistently really been engaged defensively, but he was hitting perimeter shots and threes that I never, I never expect that with consistency because his career totals tells us we shouldn't expect that. And so I just thought that was an unbelievable performance. And if he plays like that, nobody's going to beat the Lakers. I really don't. I don't see him being able to do that in this series because I think you're right. Because like Butler obviously doesn't put anybody on a pedestal and Iggy let's remember Iggy's got a pretty good history with this guy.

Iggy's old, he's old. All right, let's agree. We're both old and we've both been here before. And I bother you from time to time. Well, and then you have Crowder who's like, you gave up on me in 40 games when we played together. And he's going to be completely fired up. And then you also have the band piece too.

It's the bummer of the Clippers not making round three was they had so many ways to defend him. And LeBron got through the first three rounds and was awesome. But also played three teams that were perfect for him, right? Portland's got Hazonia. Right, right. Too bad Trevor

Ariza couldn't have played. He might have just... I'm not saying he would have stopped LeBron, but he's another five fouls. He's a body. Yeah. So all of a sudden, we're now in this Miami series where they have all these dudes to throw at him. The matchup that is going to be really tough for Miami is Davis.

Davis, yeah. So can Bam handle that? Yeah, if he's healthy. And can Bam. Yeah, and Bam, the Celtics were never able to get him in foul trouble, test him really in any way. He was always out there. He was always able to play 40 minutes,

basically doing whatever he wanted. And we knew going into that series, he was going to be the one that him and Dragic were the two worst matchups that was borne out. I think when I look at what Miami brings to the table against the Lakers, the Dragic hero factor with the Lakers guards. They're just not going to be able to guard those guys if they're playing well.

The fact that Robinson can move so well around screens and whoever is chasing him around, that's going to be tough. I'm not sure they're going to have to figure out how to hide LeBron. They might even have to play some zone, but on the flip side, LeBron loves hunting these, these dudes and man to man, getting people and pick it all and switches. And mine is just going to play that zone. And on the flip side, LeBron loves hunting these dudes and man to man, getting people in pick and roll and switches. And Miami's just going to play that zone. And they're going to be like, cool. Yeah, that's right. This is what we're doing. Beat this. And we've seen teams over the years have been able to get in LeBron. This is the way to beat him is

throw something different at him, make him try to solve it. And when he can't solve it, then he's not LeBron anymore. Dallas being the most famous example of that. So do you see that zone working against him or am I being too optimistic for Miami? No, I think there's a chance at will, especially because his supporting cast, I'm still not convinced they can. I just can't believe a team that shoots the ball as inconsistently as the Lakers do from the three point line can win a championship, especially in this day and age where three-point shooting is at a premium. And I was on, I don't know, one of the shows with Fiz, Fizdale. And he was like, no, no, they're a good three-point shooting team. And I'm like, are they? Man, I don't see it. Now,

playoff Rondo is shooting 42% for the three-point line. Do you realize that? He shot 42%. All of them were wide open though, right? So he's four out of 10 on wide open threes. I still can't believe it. And see, here's the thing about playoff Rondo. So every coach is like, okay, yeah, you can slack off of him, contest late and use him to double.

Like the way I know Rondo, I'm sure the way you know Rondo, do it at your own peril, man. I'm telling you, that goes into his blood and know Rondo, do it at your own peril, man. I'm telling you, that goes into his blood, and he's like, yeah, all right, watch me. So I just – it's funny to think that Rondo at his age could be an X factor for the Lakers, but he has the experience. He's not afraid of anybody. He'll get up in the grill of those young players.

He'll be insulted that anybody thinks Hero or Duncan Robinson should even be mentioned in the same breath as him like he really will be like that he's he can froth himself into a lather now can the other guys i don't know you know caruso and and kuzma like what what do they get out of those guys that could to me have a lot to depend on what this year what happens in this series because davis is going to be great. But Davis, to me, is just an odd player. Obviously, he's incredibly talented and his numbers, but I don't think his numbers in this postseason

truly explain him. I think there's been periods where you're like, where's Davis? I agree. No rebounds into the fourth quarter? Twice? Twice. You're supporting casting. There was that moment when Davis made the game winner. Yeah.

And that was a tight game. Great shot. Got swung. But two plays before that gets swung to Caruso. Game on the line. Wide open. And I was like, he's not making that. He short-armed it.

But they ended up the rebound. They got out of bounds. They were able to whatever. There's going to be a moment like that in the finals, and we have seen over and over again, it's the Carusos that decide these finals sometimes. Don't you think Heroes thinks

pretty sure he's going to make every shot he's ever taken in his life? That's the case for Miami, though, because you saw it in game six, right? This is why I was so worried about Miami against Boston series. This is why I thought they're going to beat them. You can outplay them and they'll have this random quarter where Iggy

hits four threes in a quarter where heroes score 17 points and a half where Dragic scores 10 points in a minute where Butler all of a sudden is getting to the free throw line and hitting a three. And you're like, Jesus, he's the best player in the league. It's always somebody else with them, which to me lends itself to, this is a team that, that could be a finals team. I, my fear for them would be Davis destroys them. I actually think they're going to be that LeBron's not going to do what he did in the Denver series. Like LeBron will be great, but I don't, I just don't think he'll be able to be peak LeBron

35, 10, and 10 every night. That's not going to happen against this Miami team. Davis is the guy for them in this series. We haven't talked about the real gentleman in the room, which is Pat Riley. Isn't that just the best part of this whole thing? It's just the best part. When you look back on Pat Riley, you had this impeccable reputation and he moves mountains to get those three guys there and they have an agreement. I think it was four years, right?

Am I right about this? And then they come back at the 11th hour after it's all been announced and say, yeah, we need that next year. And he's like, if I do this, I have to trade away players and picks just so you understand to afford this. So don't come back to me and say, we don't have enough because you want this extra year. So am I clear on this? And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he leaves, you know?

So would you just look back on that, the betrayal that Pat Riley must have felt and has shared it with, you know, my good friend Ian Thompson wrote a book called the soul basketball. There's some great stuff from Riley in there about LeBron James, really great quotes from Riley about how, you know, he had to finally just let go of it. Well, now I think he's going to go back into his closet and dig out those old memories and grab hold of it and put it in the middle of the, of the, of the locker room.

Like they used to do with the heat when they had that weird thing with the bowl and all the messages in it. He's a great motivator. Some guys don't buy into it, but I just keep thinking, oh, I can't stop thinking about Pat Riley during this whole thing. It's my favorite subplot of it. Him and Spoh together because

I remember I was on TV that year in the playoffs when they were imploding against the Spurs. And I, I always felt like it was as that finals went along, especially after Cleveland won the lottery, that it was in play. And I was like,

no way he hates Gilbert. He'll never go back. But LeBron, you know, one of the reasons he's in the running for greatest player of all time at this point is he's so smart. He knew he didn't have it with that Miami roster anymore. He knew Wade wasn't the same guy. He knew it was going to be too hard for them to add pieces, paying those three guys.

Right. And they were kind of going to be in the situation they were in. But that was his fault. But that was his fault. Totally. Because they hadn't done the extra year. Yeah, I know. And I always say, I always used to tease pop and those guys in San Antonio,

like you're the reason LeBron left because you played, you had to play near perfect basketball over those final three games of that series. Cause that series is two to one. And they play near perfect basketball over those final three games. Like the way they moved the ball at 0.5, just moving, moving, moving, cutting, moving. That's what made LeBron realize, yeah, I guess I'm done. I guess I'm done here. I really believe that. It's been interesting how people justify years where LeBron didn't win the finals, right? 07, you throw out because that team, it's amazing they even got there. They had no chance.

Yeah, right. But those former Miami teams were the favorites every single year. They almost went up 2-0 against Dallas. They completely choked in game two. If they win that game, they probably win the finals that year. 2014, it's not like he was playing with a bunch of schmucks. He had Wade. He had Bosh. He had

Ray Allen. He had Haslam. That was a pretty good team. The Spurs just haymakered them. 2015, everybody gets hurt. I guess you could throw that one out. 16, miracle comeback, but really they would have lost that if Draymond doesn't stupidly get the last technical. 17 and 18, that team spent a lot of money.

I think they had the highest salary total in the lead. And in 17, they had him and Kyrie and Kevin Love, who were allegedly three of the 15 best players in the league. And in 17, they had him and Kyrie and Kevin Love, who were allegedly three of the 15 best players in the league. And everybody's like, well, he had no chance that year. It's like, I don't think we felt like he had no chance that year. The Warriors just outplayed them. And Durant outplayed LeBron. I was going to say, that's all about Durant, though.

You add Durant to that mix, and then it's all... But he played better than LeBron that series. So, I don't know. This series, I look at it and I'm like, they're the favorites. They're almost four to one favorites. They have the two best players in the series. And if they lose this, that's a bad one.

You look at 11, you look at 14. 17, I feel like the two sides are relatively equal. They were slight underdogs, whatever. And then 20, they're prohibitive favorites. Right. But I think that's why they don't lose. I think everything you just said is why they don't lose. I really do think the Lakers will

win. I think they just LeBron, to me, just looks I got to tip my hat to him. I've been from last year to this year just the way he's changed his mind, changed the way he approached everything. I mean, it's kind of good that all those young players got traded away for Anthony Davis

because they had a right to be really ticked off at him, honestly, for, you know, the way he quit on them last year. So this year, he's been locked in from the very beginning. And he's like all the great ones. All the great ones do this. All the perceived slights, real and imagined, doesn't matter. I mean, Jordan was the best at it, you know, all these perceived, like he made up that story about the kid from Washington. I mean, that's just like my favorite story. Uh, the guy from the, that's like the best story ever.

And LeBron does the same thing. Real slights, real or imagined. And a lot of times it's the media he uses, whatever, whatever he needs to do to get himself all revved up, he's there. He's there. And Rondo, I just think Rondo is going to play a part in this just from even though he had a horrible regular season. Technically, he's too old. He can't shoot. I just think he's going to do something in this series to make a difference. Who on the Lakers is the odds on favorite to be the most embarrassing pretending them so that they had an awesome relationship with Kobe. Is it too many candidates? Gosh,

I don't even think Dwight Howard was talking about it. Pretending like, Oh, Kobe told me once it's like, Kobe hated you. What are you talking about? I think Kobe, he despised you.

Yeah, he really did. In fact, I, they came to the Lakers, came to town, to town the year that Dwight was playing with them. And I was judicious in my asks with Kobe because you don't want to overdo it. But every other year, I guess maybe, they would come to town. We'd have lunch at the Four Seasons because they always stayed there, which I love because

I love that room and it's beautiful. Great. Best lunch place in Boston. And, you know, Boston Globe and ESPN, one or the other got to pay for it. It was always good for me. Always had the soup. I love that. It started with soup.

I never start with soup unless my company's paying for it. Yeah. Anyway. And so I sat there with Toby and like, I didn't even, I had barely said hello. He was, he was ready to launch and he just destroyed light.

So yeah, I think pretty much hands down to why this is, this is my number one reason to root for Miami. I might have to wager on them just for this reason. I can't accept the Dwight redemption story. I just can't. Dwight Howard, NBA champion, is just torture. I can't handle it.

Well, and he was so, I mean, I know he was effective in that Denver series in spurts, but a lot of the time he was just so, he was like a caricature, you know? And the histronics, and just to me, it was somewhat offensive, you know? Yeah, he was like a caricature you know and the histronics and i just to me it was somewhat offensive you know yeah it was last pretty much ignored him you know yokich was good enough to ignore him so i wish yokich had gotten mad at him because it seemed like dwight was just trying to provoke so here's the thing about yokich like he i i don't know you you got to accept yokich for

who he is and you're not going to ever see any of the internal angst, anger, strife. Like that's part of his gig. Whereas Jamal Murray, everything's there. You can, you can look at Jamal Murray. It's all on his sleeve, his leg, his arm, everything. You can see everything. And, and, um, someone was saying the other day about I'd like to see Denver play in a hostile environment next year. I'd like to see them win a game seven on the road next year. And I'm like, are you serious? Jamal Murray would be like, bring it on. Are you kidding me?

Totally. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me. So I think that's a false narrative. Last question before we go. I felt this way heading into the 2006 finals and I actually wrote a column about it before the finals about my biggest fear for that Dallas Miami series was that the officials were going to have too big of a say one way or the other, because the way Miami was playing, depending on the game that, that year, it was like, you could call Wade for you'd send the line 17 times or three shacks impossible. Right. And in general, the officiating was just really bad that year.

And it was like, it feels like this is going to be a real problem. And then it was obviously the biggest, uh, officiating problem they've ever had in the finals. Yes. I feel like we're headed for that in this series because I think they have lost the ability to figure out two things and the players have been so good at exploiting it.

The first thing is somebody like LeBron, when he's driving to the basket, he's just figured out now I'm going to lurch into the guy and I'm going to create contact. Right. The guy's going to be moving. And technically it's a foul every time. But if you're the defender,

it's like, well, what am I supposed to do? Just let him drive by me. LeBron's so strong. He can go into him. Butler does the same thing. Um, so you have these really strong swing guys have figured out how to create contact. Dragic is another one where they, they do the, the stop, you know, coming around a screen, you stop, and then you lean into somebody. So that's one piece. And then the second is the three point shooting stuff where you're about to shoot a three, somebody's coming at you, kick your foot out,

you stop, you lean your hip in. And I don't think they know what to do with this stuff anymore. I really don't. And you could, Miami and the Lakers were the two best teams that over and over again in Toronto a little bit too. I feel like it's coming to a head in this series. And I think it's going to be the biggest talking point in the series. What do you think? I hope you're wrong. I hope you're wrong, but here's the problem, especially with the three point stuff is this. They've already called it a certain way all the way to now.

They can't change now. They can't change now. And both coaches know that. So they're going to tell their guys. And so let's talk like, so let's look at the roster. Who does it the best. I mean, Butler, Miami, Miami does it the best for three pointers that I've ever seen. Well, and Dražík, doesn't he just do it for everything? He's like, he's another guy that every time he goes down, it's like, I'm like, all right, one, two, three. Yep. He grabbed his face. I mean, you know, it just, it's like a soccer player. It's like unbelievable. Yeah. And it's so hard to watch. Uh, he really, he really worked Kemba with some of those, like that first call

he got on Kemba where he has Kemba on his hip and he'll stop for a second and then throw the Kemba was so frustrated, but it's like, this guy's outwitting you. He is. Yeah. Kemba, you know, some one GM told me when that, when the Celtics got Kemba, I was like, wow, I was surprised they could pull that off. I thought it was going to be great for the culture of the locker room, which all that was true. And I like, I mean, I think Kemba's, you know, really fun player to watch.

And they said to me, yeah, but he's too small. I'm like, well, I don't know. He was third team All-NBA last year. How small is he? And they said, wait till he gets to the playoffs. That's when you're going to really understand why his size is really going to hurt him. And that's why Gordon Hayward, again, was so important because he had size. And if he was healthy, he could use his size appropriately because the Celtics are small. They're small when you look at it. And Kemba,

that was one of the things I think really teams exploited was his size or left size in a post-season environment, which I hadn't really got exploited was his, his size or love size in a post-season environment, which I hadn't really got a lot of thought to. Yeah. So you have hero Dragic Butler on the Miami side and Robinson too. Who's, you know, he's figured out little tricks, but he's, I know some tricks as well. Oh, I love, I love him. So you have them on their side and then you have, and you have Bam who jumps over everybody's back. He just does it from the beginning on every rebound. They either call it or they don't.

Then you have on the Lakers side, you have LeBron who has just mastered this now. Yes, he has. He knows how to get fouls. He works the refs as hard as I think we've ever seen anybody. Except for McHale. Yeah, true. McHale's, you're right. McHale's the one. And then you have Dw Except for McHale. Yeah, true. McHale's, you're right.

McHale's number one. And then you have Dwight, who's just like a bull in a china shop. And I think every game is going to be one team lobbying the refs afterwards for the calls they didn't get.

I'm really worried about it. I think it could ruin the series. Well, see, I think in Dwight's case, though, for the most part, I thought the refs were pretty good about not falling for it.

You know? Like, I think Dwight gets no he doesn't get street cred like LeBron I mean LeBron's earned a lot of that credit you know I'll be interested to see again with some of these other guys going forward if you look at the self like the Lakers roster who's like can Kuzma do something you know or is that too much to ask can Caruso can spot shoot he He can hit some shots, but who's the one that's going to be like, yeah, he gave you something you weren't expecting. Who's that guy? And also, what do you do when Miami goes crunch time and they play Dragic and

Hero together with Butler, with Iguodala and Bam? Because that's going to be their closing lineup. And you could hide somebody in Iguodala and hope he doesn't make threes. But you still have to chase around Dragic and Hero, which means they're going to have to play two of Caruso, Pope, Rondo. I'm guessing it would be Caruso and Rondo. I'm guessing that too. And then Kuzma with LeBron and AD.

So now you have Kuzma and Caruso out there in these big moments. I don't trust either of them to make a shot. Yeah. Or, I mean, Caruso's a much better defender than people think. I agree. Yeah, Kuzma's got some holes there. So, yeah, that'll be interesting to see.

I mean, I'm just really glad that Miami is in the finals because I've loved their run. I've loved the way they've carried themselves. The way they play the game is so beautiful. I've really the way they've carried themselves. The way they play the game is so beautiful. I've really enjoyed it. And I was glad Denver got their due because, man, I could sit all day and watch Yoko Chimura run pick and roll for each other. How many bigs and smalls does that ever happen? So I'm glad those guys got a run.

And it still feels to me like it's LeBron's year and the Lakers' year, but maybe I'm wrong. We have to go, but bonus question. What do you expect from Magic Johnson in this series? Because LeBron is basically kind of body LeBron and Palenka especially because he threw Palenka under the bus and said Palenka

was undermining all that. And this whole Lakers organization seems like they're shoving Magic to the side and I don't see him disappearing for two weeks. What happens with him? I don't know. I'll let you know. I've been trying to reach him for the last three days.

Yeah, I was going to say, I could see a Jackie Mack magic story about how hurt he is that he's been cast aside. But see, he'll never admit that. You don't think so? No, I don't think so. I'm the reason LeBron came to LA. He's going to grab credit here somewhere.

Well, yeah, but he'll say, oh, Jeannie and I are fine. We had dinner. We broke bread. We're good. I'm part of the family. This is awesome. Yeah, I still think that'll happen.

He will be heard from. Jackie, this was so much fun to see you. It's such a fun morning talking basketball with you. This is like a great thing. Yeah, see, for me, it's like almost time for lunch, Bill. Yeah, all right. Go back. ESPN needs you to put you on 20 shows.

So we'll see you soon on this one. Thanks. Take care. All right, CeCe Sabathia is coming up in one second. He joined The Ringer recently. He has the R2C2 podcast. Another new podcast we have, Bakari Sellers. He went live after the debate tonight.

So if you wanted some awesome, intelligent debate coverage right after the debate, Bakari Sell you wanted some awesome, intelligent debate coverage right after the debate, Picard Sellers, go to that podcast and he is breaking everything down. Wanted to tell you quickly about Best Buy. At Best Buy, you can always count on getting the latest tech at a great price.

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Best Buy. And let's talk about the new FX original series, Fargo. Family, complicated, crime, organized. How about a brand new cast featuring Chris Rock and Jason Schwartzman? FX's Emmy and Golden Globe winning series, Fargo, from creator Noah Hawley. It returns with an all new installment that explores the complexities of immigration, assimilation, power, what it means to pursue the American dream. Set in 1950s Kansas City, the new installment of Fargo tells the original tale of two criminal syndicates that control an alternate economy of exploitation, corruption, and drugs, striking an unusual peace.

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at 7.45 at night. I made CeCe wait until after the debate. I have no thoughts about the debate. Other than that, it was a low moment in American history. And I've just never seen anything worse in my life. And I don't think we should talk about it. What I did want to ask you though, is if we reelected the MLB commissioner every four years, and it was the same process as the presidency, what would people come at Manfred with? The opposing person who's trying to steal the commissioner job, what would be the three things they would go at him with?

Length of the games, how long the games are. Maybe appealing to fans with how strict they are with shoes. You know, in the NBA, you can wear whatever color shoes you want and all of that stuff. Guys have been, you know, been crying about that for years, about wanting to show their personality. And they've kind of relifted that restriction the last couple of years with Players Weekend and stuff. But it would definitely be, it would would definitely be the length of the games. It probably length of the schedule. I bet you somebody would run on having

a 140-game schedule, putting more teams in the playoffs like we have this year, which was exciting. Baseball to see 16 teams in the playoffs and all the games today. So it would probably be something like that. I think they would also play the card of,

we are losing to football and basketball. This used to be America's pastime. What happened? What's happened this century? But who can fix that though? Who has the answer to how do you fix that? Because the games look the same on TV for the last 60 years. You know what I'm saying?

You can't change the angles. With the NFL, you got the camera going on the screen. They change all the angles. You can hear different things. With baseball, it's kind of the same shit. It's the same view of you. You see the runner at second base, maybe the shortstop, the pitcher, the catcher, and the hitter.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what can you change to appeal to more fans? I mean, on TV anyway. Well, what I'm saying? Like, what can you change to appeal to more fans? I mean, on TV anyway. Well, when you're running for office, you don't really have to elaborate on what you're going to do. You just have to call out what's wrong, and then say, I'm going to fix that. And when I'm

in charge, baseball will be the number one sport again. But not say how you're actually going to do it. But not really. And it really doesn't happen, right? It would be funny to watch these commissioners have to fight. I mean, in the NFL, it would be the best, right? If Goodell had to fight to get his job back every four years. Because Goodell would have been the easiest one to take his job.

I think the biggest thing in the NFL that somebody can run on would just be guaranteed contracts. Just to get the owners to agree on that. Shorter length of contracts, but just guarantee guys money, you know? Yeah, the owners would be like, we're getting this person out of here. ASAP. So, as you know from me coming on your podcast,

this has been a rough baseball season for me. They traded my favorite Red Sox player. The Red Sox tanked. I tried not to watch a lot of baseball, but I wasn't an alekeeper fan of the league. So I knew a lot of, at least I was going to the American League. So then the playoffs start today. We had four games. It was really fun to have it back. I got to say, and I was looking at it, my strategy,

and I was texting you about who I wanted to bet on who I'll reveal in a second. My strategy was, this is going to be such a weird playoffs, the games in a row, the pitching, who the hell knows, who knows if the arms are going to be set. You're going to have like somebody's eight starter decide deciding an elimination game, all these things. And I just wanted offense. I wanted like good lineups and maybe a team that had one or two good starters, a couple of good relievers, but more importantly, hitters and hitters that could just wear down a team over the course of the series. So I picked the white socks, the whitex were 14 and one to win the world series

plus six 50 to win the American league. But that was the type of team I thought would win. They did well today. So did the Yankees or another team like that. Do you agree with that theory to go with the bats? Yeah. I mean, I think so just because of how many days you got to play in a row. I think, you know, it's going to be whoever gets hot. And it's so many teams in that it can literally be anybody. I mean, yeah, the White Sox can run off 9, 10 in a row. You run off 9, 10 in a row right now, you got to parade at the end of the season. You know what I'm saying? So it's just going to be fun to see who can actually do that.

And I think, like you said, you're going to have to have some good pitching, but I think you're going to have to be able to create your own off days. Would you be, the schedule the way it is

playing every day, like the White Sox need to go and close that series out tomorrow. The Yankees need to go and win that series tomorrow, give themselves an off day so that they, you know, the relievers can get a day.

Because normally you play two games, day off, and then you got a game, maybe day off, so guys are getting more off days. So it's up to you now as a team to create those off days, go out and try to win a series quick and get some days off to get some rest and maybe even bring your number one starter back earlier in the series if you can get some extra rest, you know?

Who else fits that profile? The Dodgers, obviously. Just how deep they are. Tampa. Yeah, you like Tampa. I really like—I mean, I hate to say that because I am a Yankee, but Tampa's so deep and their pitching is so good.

And people talk about their offense, but they always find a way to score runs. So I think they're going to be really scary in this playoffs. Well, the Yankees, the X factor is that they can just keep all their dudes healthy for five weeks. Yeah.

Which they have not been able to do for a couple years now. But, you know, judging waiver being the big ones. But, you know, judging Weber being the big ones. But, you know, Judge looked good today. He did. He did. I mean, and it was one swing.

You know what I'm saying? Like, he goes deep the first pitch that he sees. He strikes out the rest of the game. Yeah. But it just changes the game. It gets everybody hyped. It changes the whole complex. I mean, it changes the whole dugout.

It just, you know, when your big guy goes deep first pitch, off Shane Bieber, who's the best pitcher in the world right now, I mean, you know, besides our guy, I think, you know, it just changes the way you feel about, you know, playing on the road and playing a really good team in the Indians. You see Ace versus Ace, probably the two best pitchers in the AL, unless you want to throw me

Ada. And Cole kills him. He head-to-head just whoops his ass. When you're on the team and that happens, and it's like our big gun against your big gun, and you knock out the other team's big gun, embarrass them,

and then your guy shows up. What does that do? What are the next 24 hours like? I mean, you feel like it's over. You know what I'm saying? I mean, especially just because the Indians were built on what Bieber did this year. Maybe he'll get some AO MVP

votes. He got hot for two months. And, you know, had a great season. But I was a little worried about him coming into the start. You know what I'm saying? First playoff start, you're pitching against the Yankees. You're coming off the season that you've never had before. I was him in 2007.

Same shit. You know, I go into the playoffs, think I got it rolling. I go on to pitch against the Yankees. I give up three runs in five innings. Wasn't a horrible start, but it just wasn't what we were used to seeing out of me. And I could tell, you know, the guys were just like, damn. You know, we were counting on C to go out there and shove it, lock it down.

We played great, and it just sends you off on a different path. In basketball, the chasm between the regular season and the playoffs, the last, I would say, six, seven years, you really feel it. It's almost like whatever you're doing in the regular season, it doesn't sometimes have any correlation to the playoffs you really feel it. It's almost like you, whatever you're doing in the regular season, it doesn't sometimes have any correlation to the playoffs and all the things. And we've seen it with Milwaukee. We've seen it with Houston,

all these different teams. Do you, does that, is that the case for pitchers? Is it different to pitch in the playoffs? Is it different for Cole in a game like today versus like if it was just some random game against Baltimore in August? Well, it's different for pitchers. mean you have to have that experience you have to get out there and pitch in those games there's no I mean it's very rare that a guy comes up in his first

playoff start and you know throws a no-hitter uh doc you know doc holiday but he was already seasoned you know like like I said I mean Shane already seasoned. You know what I'm saying? Like I said, I mean, Shane Bieber, this is kind of this is his first time having this Cy Young season, and it wasn't even a long season. Like, he got high for two months. If we're in a regular season, he's just starting the All-Star game now.

You know what I'm saying? Like, we don't even know if he can pitch down the stretch with that monkey I gotta win this Cy Young on my back. So, you know, coming into this playoff start, we didn't know what we were going to get. And like I said, they were built on him pitching so well, it had to be deflating in that clubhouse to see the Yankees go out

and score 12 or 13 runs or whatever they did today. After that same core, that team, that core, Lindor, Santana, Ramirez, like they blew a 2-0 lead to us in 17. Right. Which is the same guys just came in there and kicked in the front door right now in game one. Right. You know, for me, basically, that series is over right now.

You know what I'm saying? Who are you afraid of as somebody who bleeds that awful color that the yankees are um you're saying like another team that i'm afraid you're the most afraid of tampa it seems like yeah i am i am just because we play them all the time um that's like i said that that pitching's really good They know how to beat us. And it's going to be, I think, seven, five, however long the series is, it's going to go all the way.

I do think that division baseball stuff does become a disadvantage for the better team after a while. I know with the Red Sox, they eventually became the only team that had any success whatsoever against Rivera, and it's because they were seeing him 20 to 25 times a year. And at some point, it's not like they were crushing him.

But it does help to see the same people over and over again. Same way like in basketball, it hurts the Rockets when somebody's playing them seven times in two weeks. And just kind of get used to what they're doing. So I do think it evens it out a little bit. Yeah. I mean, and even, I think,

you know, the series that they're playing with, but the blue Jays is going to be close just because they play each other all the time. And the blue Jays are comfortable going down to Tampa and they know how to, you know, move around down there and things like that. So,

you know, that game was close today. It was, you know, a two run Homer away from, you know, that game going to today. It was, you know, a two-run homer away from, you know, that game going to extra innings. And then the Blue Jays had runners on base, and Gritchick hit a line drive.

Adonis made a great play. So I think that series can end up going three games, to be honest, too, just because those teams play each other all the time, and they're familiar with each other in the same division. Well, the worst loss was Minnesota. Yeah. Dang. Who, you worst loss was Minnesota. Yeah. Dang.

Who, you know, they gacked it. They had the force out. Guy blew it. Then they walk in the go-ahead run, the whole thing. But that was their 17th straight playoff loss, which somebody texted me that, and I was like, that can't be true. Man, and I contributed to a lot of those losses,

but now I feel bad. Oh, my God. That's horrible. 17 straight playoff losses, man, from Division Series to, you know, wild card games, everything. I mean, that's rough. And like you said today, I mean, I don't know what they need to do. The lineup's good. The pitching's good. The pitching's good. Just one, you know, ground ball away from, you know,

being up 1-0 against Houston. And like I told you, like I texted you earlier today, the last thing we need is Houston to start feeling good because at the end of that game, you can see that dugout coming alive. I mean, if you watch them just watching them play, they don't look like they're having any fun. Like, they're not smiling. They're not out there joking around.

But at the end of that game, you can see them starting to come to life a little bit. And that'll be trouble for my Yankees or whoever else is in the playoffs right now if they start rolling, for sure. It's so funny. I noticed the same thing. Because when Brantley got that hit specifically,

all of a sudden they showed the dugout for the first time the guys looked like they were in the baseball playoffs and that they were excited and pulling for each other. But the thing, my biggest revelation of the day, other than just not only betting on the White Sox, but just how fun it was to watch them go through that

lineup where it's like every guy is at least decent, you know, one after the other. It was so much fun to root against Houston. It really is like, I never thought I would reach the point in my life where I would root against a team more than the Yankees. And I'm not positive

on there, but if Houston plays the Yankees in a series, I honestly don't know who I'm going to root for. You have to go with the Yankees. Do I though? I don't know if it's in me fundamentally. It'd be like rooting for the Lakers. But that frigging Astros team. And Altuve was up and I was like, oh, please let him strike out.

It's so funny if he doesn't come through here. We could just make garbage can jokes, the whole thing. And then he actually, he drew a walk. He got a walk. Yeah, he drew a walk. But they're getting a free pass because if it were the playoffs, imagine them coming into Yankee Stadium, what the fans would be doing to them in October.

That would be brutal. Yeah, during the season, too. I mean, just not having to make trips. I mean, even going to Oakland. Oakland's a tough place to play. Those fans are rough. So, yeah, I mean, just them not having any fans around at all. And they still really didn't have a good year.

So we'll see what happens next year when we get the fans back in the parks. Well, they weren't able to bang on garbage cans this year. It's tough to adjust. Yeah, they didn't know what was coming. So you like the Dodgers and the NL. Do you have any other team? Because I've been looking at the Padres.

I didn't love the odds for them. But they do fit the profile, right? They have three really good hitters, a couple good pitchers. It would be kind of funny if they ended up crossing paths with the Dodgers because they're like the ugly stepbrother of Southern California baseball.

Is it them? Is it somebody else? Who do you like? I like the Padres. I just don't know if they have enough pitching, man. Their bullpen is really good. But with Clevenger being hurt, I just don't know if they'll be able to swing enough. I mean, to pitch enough to be able to.

I mean, obviously, they're going to score runs. But I just don't know if they'll be able to pitch enough. I told you this earlier. Oddly enough, I like the Cardinals. They always find a way to win in these weird situations. You know, they had all the COVID stuff going on early in the year. They shouldn't even be in this position. They shouldn't even make the playoffs with everything that they had going on.

And they're still here. I mean, you got Wainwright. You got Flaherty. You got Yachty, who's been there. You got Dex, who's the world champion. And it's the Cardinals. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're an organization.

They know how to win. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they made a deep run into this playoffs, man. It really depends on this wildcard series because they play the Padres,

you know, starting tomorrow. And the Dodgers, they're like prohibitive favorites. And I'm just not sure anybody should be prohibitive favorites with how goofy

this whole system's gonna be. You know? Yeah. They're. You know, I don't. They're just so deep, though. Yeah. And so good. And Mookie's locked in. And obviously he's done it for a long time. And they've made deep playoff runs.

And he may just be the piece they need to get them over the top. You know, I might buy the Mookie T-shirt jersey to support him. Last couple of rounds. I really got the know? I might buy the Mookie t-shirt jersey to support him last couple rounds. I really might. I got the jersey. I bought the jersey, man. I just love that guy. I would love it if he won. I would love it if he won and stuck it to the Red Sox.

Although, I got to say, now that I know next year's coming and I won't be as mad about the trade and it turned out great for Mookie, but Verdugo is good. Yeah, he is good. He's a good player. Like the guys that got in that trade,

it wasn't a disaster. It doesn't defend trading a generational superstar. I'll never defend that, but at least the trade itself, it wasn't like some of these trades when you trade somebody and you just get a bunch of bums back.

Like when we got Pedro from Montreal and I think we gave up Tony Armas and Carl Bavano. And for whatever, it was like 20 cents on the dollar. We got the greatest picture of all time. And they didn't get like an all-star out of it. So it wasn't, I think the trade was a little better than that,

but it would be fun to see him in the mix for you. What would be the most fun thing about this super weird bubble situation with 28 man teams and everybody chipping in just like, let's say it's older version of you when you're more of a leader, what, what were the, what were the kinds of stuff you would be concentrating on over these next five weeks? Um, just making sure that we all kind of locked in. I mean, you know, um, especially during the playoffs, you know, you own business trips. You know, you want to make sure that you just,

everybody's locked in on their routine. The hardest thing with the playoffs is like everybody's family's traveling. You know, you got different people on the plane. You got, you know, everybody at the hotels, different stuff going on.

You're trying to figure out tickets. So that gets a little hard. But as a vet, you just want to make sure everybody's locked into their routine. He's trying to figure out tickets. So that gets a little hard. But as a vet, you just want to make sure everybody's locked into their routine. Everybody's feeling good. Everybody's got all their stuff locked down so that they can just go out

and concentrate on playing baseball. Do you worry that this isn't going to work and it's not going to go very well and we're going to have a bubble? Yeah, and a great reckoning at the end of this playoffs because I think it definitely worked for basketball. Football, at least so far, it's felt like football.

And baseball had this goofy season. And I'm not sure how seriously people are taking these playoffs. And they're showing the leaders today. And it's like Lou Voigt was our home run leader with 22. And it's like, all right, this is stupid. Come on. What are we doing but uh if this doesn't work i wonder what the next steps are and and whether this leads to finally some real change in the sport yeah i mean i don't know what this has

to work you know what i'm saying like i don't i don't know it what the what the alternative is i mean obviously expanding the playoffs and making it more exciting, trying to get more viewership. But this bubble situation, you know, the second round being in, I think it's San Diego, LA and Texas, you know, hopefully they can, they can, and by them playing every day, I feel like people will get more locked in too. You know what I'm saying? People, you know, people, if it's every day, people will be more excited about, you know, the Yankees playing every day or the Padres playing every day and, you know, them getting to see their team. So, you know, hopefully this will drive more viewership to the sport and, you know, get more people back excited about the game. I don't know what you do long term. Would you want to see the playoffs expanded like this?

If we play 162 games, would you want to see 16 teams get in like teams under 500 and you know what i'm saying like what what are we gonna do about the playoffs going forward i would not have more than like 140 games which i know is a no-go because all the money they make from the attendance but i just think this season's too long. Here's the thing. Things change. Think about how different the world is since it was in 2000. You had

dial and internet and all the other million, hundred, kajillion. We had no social media yet. Things evolve. Things change. Things get faster. At some point, you got to adapt a little bit. I feel the same way about basketball. Even these stupid reviews that they're

having every playoff game, they don't work. They slow the game down. It makes the ending just fucking disjointed. And I don't really understand the upside at all. And we're sitting there as this awesome game and then it's like, hold on,

we're going to review this whether it was a blocker or a charge for four minutes. It's like, what are we doing? It's 2020. Nobody wants this. So with baseball,

I do wonder with all the injuries pitchers have had, is there an eventually move to make it seven innings or eight innings? I think you could say eight innings

pretty realistically for games. Yeah. And maybe that's how you do 162. You have double headers, something like that. Yeah, I mean, I like the seven inning double headers

to be honest. Yeah. If you move it to 140 games and you play seven inning double headers on Sundays and you get Monday off, you know what I'm saying? Right.

You know, every... Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be mad at that. If you went to 140 games, I would want to see expanded playoffs, though. I agree. I would want to see

the playoffs like this. Yeah. You know, where it's more... It's more action. You know, I mean, obviously, it's more teams. It's more fun down the stretch. Like, that last day,

it was eight different scenarios where, you know, this team had to lose team had to lose for these guys to get in. I think that makes it more exciting for the sport. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't be mad at 140 games. For me, the season's way too long. I always said that. And I feel the same about basketball. I would go 72 max and get rid of the last 10

and try to do more stuff like that. That bubble elimination game, Portland and Memphis had, you think about it, that was like ultimately a completely, completely meaningless game, right? The winner got the right to get their asses kicked by the Lakers.

But guess what? That was a really fun game. And I thought it was a really valuable game for certain guys in the court. Like for John Moran, that's a real playoff game that he played in, you know, even though it was a really valuable game for certain guys in the court. Like for John Morant, that's a real playoff game that he played in. You know, even though it was a quote-unquote playoff game, that was valuable for him. And it was enjoyable for us.

We got to watch it. I would want more of that and less of these like dog days of August baseball games and dog days of, you know, February, March. Plus in basketball, you have eight or nine teams by the two-thirds mark are just done. They're out. So I would rather get out of the season faster and get to the good stuff, which I think baseball, that should be the same goal, you know? That's true.

August sucks, man, for baseball. Like, it really is because it's after the All-Star break. So you get back and then you're just waiting for the playoff race. Like, the games, they matter, but they don't really matter yet, so it's not really that intense. And, I mean, everybody's just kind of waiting for September anyway.

Well, and from a weather standpoint... It's a weird period. It's so hot. Well, yeah, it's so hot, but then you get to October, and you have the most meaningful games anyone's playing, and in some cases, it's freezing hot. Well, yeah, it's so hot, but then you get to October, and you have the most meaningful games anyone's playing, and in some cases, it's freezing cold. Yeah.

And it's like, well, why would we do it that way? For me, though, I always, like, that was, like, for me to turn it back on. Like, beginning of the year, you know it's going to be cold. You heat up during the summer, get your numbers, and then, you know, we put the sleeves back on when it's time to go to work. So you liked it? I really enjoyed, like, the weather change. You're pitching in October, you know, back in the cold weather.

I really did. I don't know. It was a weird thing. It was just like almost like I'm going to work now. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is what I'm here for. And, you know, you put on those sleeves. It's football weather.

Go out and play. It's bizarre for the fans, I'll tell you that much. I've been to a lot of big Red Sox games where it was just freezing cold. Like in the 2018 World Series. We're all wearing sweatshirts and those hats with the flaps for your ears and mittens.

We're like, okay. Meanwhile, we can barely make noise because everybody's hands are covered. Everybody's just drunk because they're freezing. And it's like, ah, this is kind of fun. But at the same time, these are the biggest games of the year i'm trying to think what uh 2010 we play texas

and um i had never i was out you know it's the playoffs now so i'm thinking it's gonna it's like cold weather yeah we get down to arlington it's fucking 90 degrees game game one i was on the mound dying like i hadn't hadn't pitched in that weather like six eight weeks you know what i'm saying and like i remember just getting out there like holy shit this is this is gonna be rough because i was not ready for the hot weather uh in october that i was i was definitely that was that threw me off for sure. So you have Tampa Dodgers as your safe pick and Cardinals, I'm sorry,

Yankees-Dodgers as your safe pick. Yankees-Dodgers is my safe pick. And Tampa Cardinals is your wacky one. Yeah. Okay. Tampa Cardinals,

I mean, we could see that though. Like, that'd be, I mean, that could easily happen. The most fun for the league would be Yankees-Dodgers. Yeah, for sure. I would imagine. The most fun for the league anytime would be Yankees-Dodgers though. That's good. And that's what I feel like we got robbed of at 17 as Yankee-Dodgers because that would have been a classic. That would have been good. 17, that was the year the Astros cheated. Oh no, they cheated for three years

in a row. My bad. Well, but that was, that started it. Let's take a break to talk about ZipRecruiter. When it comes to scoring great hires for your business, you may be up against some obstacles, like lots of applicants, but difficulty finding the right ones for your job or finding time to hire while running your business, plus trying to ensure workplace safety.

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Try ZipRecruiter for free by going to ziprecruiter.com slash BS. Once again, ziprecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter, the smartest BS. ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Let's talk basketball really quick. Your guy, LeBron, he can smell it now.

Yeah. He's four wins away. It's over. It's been set up perfectly for him. I picked Miami at six earlier in this podcast. I think they win in six.

I think, I love the matchup for them. Make the case for LeBron James runs them over like a freight train. Everybody keeps telling me that they like Miami in this matchup. Because they're good. I don't see it at all. especially when you get down to like

this, when it's just you in the finals and it's LeBron and like Jimmy Butler said, it's like, this is like Jimmy Butler said, it's like, this is like the final test. He's like the final boss. Like if you want to win a championship, you got to go through this man and the way he's playing right now, you know, ending the game with those last six buckets at the end of the, at the end of the game against, uh, the Nuggets. Um, he's healthy. AD's playing well. Rondo's locked in. I just don't see, I don't see this going past five games.

See, what you're saying right now is why Miami's going to win because it's a whole team of chip-on-their-shoulder guys. Jimmy Butler right now is listening to this podcast being like, fucking CeCe, I thought he was my friend. I'm going to show him. I'm showing him. All that shit sounds good, but you just got to be rational. LeBron is playing lights out right now.

And when he's playing like this, and defensively, like for him to pick up Jamal Murray at the end of the game the other night, like, come on, man, this guy's on another fucking planet right now. So Jimmy Butler's going to have to score. Tyler Heron's going to have to score 47 a night for them to win this series, man. Which he can do. They have a lot of guys that throw at him, though. They throw Butler, they throw Crowder,

they throw Iguodala. You can put Bam on him if AD's out of the game. I think AD is the one that Miami doesn't really have an answer for other than Bam. We might see Myers Leonard in this series. You know, but it's like when they go a little smaller and if they can get BAM in any sort of foul trouble

in any of these games, which the Celtics weren't able to do, then it becomes tough. But I think it's going to be a long series. I really think this Miami team's good. You go 12-3 in the playoffs and you take down a Boston team when they didn't really play well in the first five games. They didn't shoot that well. They just kind of pulled them out in the playoffs and you take down a Boston team when they didn't really play well in the first five games. They didn't shoot that well. They just kind of

pulled them out in the class. And then game six they played great. But it's a team that doesn't necessarily have to play well to hang around, which is an annoying team to play in the playoffs. So I think it's going to be a long series. I mean, I hope you're right. I want to see a good series.

I just don't know. I mean, we hope you're right. I want to see a good series. I just don't know. I mean, we'll have to see. What is it? Miami's tough, you know, and I want to see Bam and AD. I think that's going to be a great matchup. You know, two super big athletic bigs. I think it's going to be fun to watch, but I don't know, man. I just think LeBron is the X factor in every finals,

and the way he's playing right now, it's going to be tough to beat him. You have no stakes in this. You're a baseball guy. But you watch basketball during this year that we're having and four black head coaches get canned during the offseason, including Doc Rivers, who was the most important black coach they had.

Now, he won three playoff series in seven years. At some point, you are who you are with the results and all that stuff. But you would think, like, here's a league that's 75% black, and yet the number of black head coaches seem to be going down every year. It doesn't make sense to me. Does it make sense to you? Yes and no. I mean mean coaches get hired to get fired obviously um and if you're not producing if you're not winning um yeah i mean like you said he won

three playoff series in seven years you know doc will be coaching somewhere again pretty really soon though you know and ty lue will be back coaching pretty really soon so um the thing about the nba is is there's always opportunities for those guys yeah i feel like in the other leagues make baseball i mean you you get dusty baker get it you know get his name thrown in there all the time because he's a great manager but other than that you know there's not that many opportunities out there nfl you know a guy i'll get an interview and you that, you know, there's not that many opportunities out there. NFL, you know, a guy will get an interview and you hear about, you know, Eric Bien-Ami is supposed to be the next great head coach. You know, he's the offensive coordinator for the Chiefs.

But, you know, he'll get a token interview and then they'll hire somebody else. In the NBA, those jobs come back around all the time where these guys will get rehired. And, you know, like I said, Doc will be coaching somewhere. Ty Lue will be coaching somewhere. Jake Kidd will be coaching soon. So there's always those opportunities in the NBA for those guys. I think Doc's going to end up in Philly. I don't know what the Clippers are going to do.

I was told today they are figuring it out. I thought when they got rid of Doc. They had somebody already figured out. Yeah. I don't think they do. I think they're trying to figure it out. I think they need to figure it out. I mean, I'm not mad at them moving on from Doc.

I'm not either. It was a tough year to do it, though. And I do think what he meant in the league and to other coaches, I think him and Popovich are really the two guys at all the coaches. And so he kind of needs to be on another team. So hopefully he will be, there's like six openings still. So you think he'll be able to help?

I don't think anybody can help Philly. Like, I mean, I don't think, I don't think Philly can be helped. I think you gotta, you gotta get those two away from each other. Like that shit is never going to work.

That's how I feel too. But it would have been a fun Phil Jackson 25 years ago. Experiment, right? This is the kind of thing Phil Jackson would have lived for. I'd be like, I can make this work. I just read the Shaq Kobe book that Jeff Perlman wrote.

I mean, I knew all this stuff. I just hadn't thought about it in a while. Like just how bad it was for those two guys. Yeah, those two were bad. Phil Jackson made it work, but it was really week to week.

Like in baseball, I'm sure you were on teams where two guys didn't like each other, but in basketball, when your two best guys don't like each other, it's really hard to rebound from that. In baseball, you can be like, alright, we can with 25 guys. We can figure this out. In basketball, you can't. You're kind of a prisoner

of that relationship. Well, especially when it's Kobe and Shaq. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, these are not just two of the best, these are not just two best players on your team. These are two of the best players

ever to play. And if these, like, if they can't get along, then obviously it's going to split the team down the middle. It's going to be guys, you know, that agree with Shaq and it's going to be guys

that agree with Kobe. It just seemed like their beef was always about... I feel like if Shaq worked as hard as Kobe, they wouldn't have had no beef. You know what I'm saying? If the work ethic was there, I feel like Kobe would have just left everything alone. So I think that was what happened,

the end part, The last third. What I didn't realize with the book was the initial part that got them off the wrong foot was Kobe came in kind of like, this is my team now. And Shaq was one of the biggest stars in the league. He's like, who the fuck are you? You're 19. You're not even

starting yet. What are you doing? And just from the get-go, there was this territory pull. Were you ever on a team where two of the stars, you don't have to say who the stars were. It would be fun if you did. But were you ever on a team where two stars had a territory battle like that?

Nah. No. Not like that. Not at all. Nah, I mean, on those early Indians teams, it was it was, you know, two of the bigger guys kind of had a had a thing. But it wasn't it wasn't anything where, you know, outside looking in, you can notice what I'm saying. Like it was just something small. And like you said, in baseball, it's it's you know, it's not like hoop where you depend on somebody else. Baseball is like an individual team sport, if that makes sense,

where if I just do my job, show up and do my part, fuck everything else. I can navigate it. But in basketball, you need somebody to pass you the ball. You need guys to help you on defense. You need other things. You need your teammates more in hoop, I feel like. When I was a kid, I to read like every sports book i was like i was just like a maniac and

spark allow wrote that book the bronx zoo it was like this tell all behind the scenes about the yankees i think it was the 70s 17 maybe the 78 team and they had an excerpt of it in sport magazine and it was all like just what what a dick Reggie Jackson was. And Thurman Munson and Reggie Jackson almost fighting in the locker room. I remember reading it and honestly, my head almost exploded. I was like, these guys are like my baseball cards and just guys I'm watching on TV. And I idolized Fred Lynn. And I had no idea they would ever have any

kind of tension at all. You're like, what? He called him a fucking asshole? I had a stroke. I love it because I'm close with Gator. So I love hearing Gator's stories. I honestly feel like I probably should have played on those teams.

You would have loved it. I'm a 70s baseball player for sure and I definitely should have played on those teams. Oh, you would have loved that. I'm a 70s baseball player for sure, and I definitely should have played on those teams. Just hearing Gator and Reggie. I didn't know Thurman gave Reggie Mr. October. He was the one that gave him that name. Right. After a game, he was like,

I guess they wanted to come talk to him after a game, and Thurman didn't feel like it because it always went to him because he's the captain. And I guess Reggie had a good game. It was like October 1st or 2nd. He was like, I don't know. He was like, he said, I didn't have a good game. Go talk to Mr. October down there. And it like stuck. I

had no idea that he was the one that named him that. It's funny because that's still the craziest team just to follow from afar, I think, of my lifetime. And it's a team that if all that stuff was happening now in this era, people would have a stroke, but you had,

cause not only did you have all the personalities on the team, but then you had this Billy Martin Steinbrenner. Steinbrenner was basically Trump before Trump. It was Trump in the training wheels and just him and Billy Martin and Billy Martin was just this crazy drunk. He ended up fighting one of his players once. And, uh, I,

nobody ever did the right, like, awesome documentary about that. People tried different things. Nah, but the Bronson's Burning was good, though. The book was great. Yeah, oh, the ESPN thing.

The show they did on ESPN, though. It was pretty good. You like that? Yeah, I did. I mean, because I didn't know, I never read the book and I didn't know anything else.

You know, I didn't know anything else other than just watching that. So like talking to Mickey Rivers and talking to Gator and all those dudes, they was like, yeah, I mean, that, that was pretty accurate. Like they didn't show a lot of the crazy shit that we did, but they showed, you know, they showed enough of it. So, I mean, what was the craziest team of your general of your whole era?

You mean that I played with? No, no, just in general. That I heard. Some of those Tiger teams with like Dimitri Young and Robert Fick and Bobby Higginson. Oh, really? Jared Weaver.

Those dudes were wild, bro. Those dudes, they had some wild teams. Those are probably like the more legendary teams that I heard about. Really? Like wild,

like they were arguing in the clubhouse? Or they were partying? Or what were they doing? Partying. Like just off the field. On the field, like fighting and stuff like that. I'm trying to think. Because I remember there was a Red Sox team the year we had Carl Everett.

What was that? I think it was 2008. Oh, 2000. Oh, 2000. And it was just like one of those years everything went wrong. And I was actually at the game when Carl Everett headbutted the umpire.

Yeah, I remember that. Which was a weird vibe in the crowd. It was kind of one of those, oh, no. Did he? You saw that too, right? That was a headbutt, right? It was like really, really crazy. But so we've had like kind of like Did he? You saw that too, right? That was a headbutt, right?

It was like really, really crazy. So we've had like kind of like depressing, dark Red Sox teams, but I don't ever remember having like a crazy, I guess the closest were the 0-3-0-4 teams, which were really fun teams. Yeah, there were fun teams though. I mean with Johnny and Millar. Yeah. And then, so I played with Trot in 07,

the year when he came to Cleveland. And I feel like that team was kind of like, took on his personality. We were like, we were wild and we were young. We were really good. But I never, I never really played on any, any like crazy teams or, or it really even had, I've only seen like teammates fight a couple couple times. You know what I'm saying?

Like for the most part I've been playing with those pretty good teams. Before we go, football. I know you're watching. You're like me. You're watching everything. Sunday football has been fantastic. What's jumped out to you the most? What have you enjoyed as a fan?

All of it really. The lack of tackling has been crazy just because the guys didn't play preseason. It's been a fucking joke. How about that Camara touchdown? It's like watching Big Ten or college football. It's like, these guys cannot tackle.

But, I mean, it's been fun to watch, just up and down. But another thing, too, is like, we talked about this earlier on my pod with Russell Wilson. He's having a great season. He's a great player. But another thing, too, is like we talked about this earlier on my pod with Russell Wilson. He's having a great season. He's a great player. But, like, I'm tired of hearing about he didn't have an MVP vote

and all that shit. Patrick Mahomes, if he stays on the course that he's going on right now, is the MVP of this fucking league. This guy's throwing fucking jump, no-look passes. Like, the level of, like, the talent in his play and where he's at right now. Like, I understand Russ never got an MVP vote. But Patrick Mahomes is, like, another fucking, he's on another planet, man. And Andy, with Andy reading that offense, like, the other day, Monday night,

they faked a screen on both ends and then threw a screen to the tight end. Right. They faked the screen to the right, faked the screen to the left, and then threw a screen to the tight end. Like, the level of, like, trickery in the plays that they have, like Andy Reid is just a genius, man. So I don't see them being stopped anytime soon.

And I'm tired of hearing about Russell Wilson for MVP. Sorry. I'm with you. We slept on Mahomes. And I'm mad at myself because I like the Ravens on Monday night. I watched the first two Chiefs game. I didn't like how they looked. What I didn't realize was that it was a fucking rope dope, those dicks.

It was a rope dope. They rope doped us. They didn't use any plays that they used on Monday night. No trickery. They weren't sending their receivers deep because they probably didn't want those guys to pull their muscles or do whatever. So everything was short.

They only unleashed Hill a couple times. And in that game, they were like, all right, let's go. Receivers, you're going, Hardman, you're going flying down. Hill, you're going to go that way. We're going to do a double screen. They put out all the tricks.

I was so mad. I was like, oh, you duped me. And then Lamar looked terrible. And Lamar Jackson. But he's a great player. He just doesn't have Andy Reid. If he had, I mean, and they do a good job for what he can do. They run the ball.

They try to do whatever they can. But he needs like a play caller like Andy Reid or somebody that can design an offense like that. The problem with Lamar is like, especially if you bet on him or if you're rooting for him, it does feel like when they're down 14 or down 10, it's like, oh man, this sucks. I don't feel like they can come back.

It's like, they're almost like the Rockets. Like we have our system. Oh wait, we have to audible out of this for this whatever shit. What do we do? Whereas, like, the Chiefs, you know, I'm mad. I should have seen it coming. The Chiefs can do whatever. They can do whatever you need.

They can run the ball. They got the rookie from LSU now. I mean, that kid's unbelievable. He's running up. Yeah, Clyde's a beast. I mean, obviously, they can throw the ball all over the yard, but man, they're on another level. And I think the Ravens are there too, and I love Lamar.

I just think they need to figure out a better scheme offensively. Well, the scariest thing would be if Baltimore really was the second best team in the league. And then Kansas City just destroyed them. It's probably a bad sign for the season. And for my Raiders, too. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, you had some bad luck in that game.

You had a couple of dumb injuries. You had a bad fumble at one point. That was a bad fumble. With all that said, I don't think Gruden totally trusts your QB. And you could feel it in the game. Watching that really carefully as a Patriots fan, especially on third downs,

they were just really careful in a way that didn't make sense, especially when they were behind. Now, they didn't have rugs. I get it. No, but it's almost like the same thing, like you said, with Baltimore. If we get down by like a touchdown or even 10 points

it's almost like we don't have anything that can we don't have any we don't have a game plan that can come back from this because Gruden won't let Carr throw the ball

more than 8 yards you know what I'm saying like we have no we have nothing that we can throw it's dink and dunk so we have nothing that can get the ball

down the field in a hurry. So once we get down 10 points, once we get down two scores, the game's over. How is it here in Vegas the first three weeks? Vegas Raiders, Vegas, third down for Vegas. You know what? I'm used to it. I got used to it. Like I said, as long as it's the Raiders and same colors,

I'm never going to go anywhere. So I'm used to it. I'm excited, man. I can't wait to get to the stadium and, like, get to Vegas and, like, be a part of, like, all the culture and shit. You know, I'm so into it. Like, I'm such a huge fan that I just can't wait to, like, be around everything. I'm excited for it. Part of me wonders if they should have said Nevada Raiders instead of Vegas Raiders.

Instead of Vegas Raiders. Nevada Raiders sounds kind of, I don't know, more sinister. The Nevada Raiders are coming. Look out for these guys. They have some good players, though. I mean, I thought the Mack trade was the dumbest trade in a while, and the guys that got out of it,

you can't argue with it. They got Josh Jacobs out of the trade. He's fantastic. Yeah, he is, but I still, you know, I mean, it was, it's still rough to trade Khalil Mack at that time. I would hope so.

Yeah. But you know, we got Crosby now, you know, defense is getting better. Uh, Jonathan Abrams is good. Arnett,

I really like that's something that we haven't had in a long time is, is a good defense or, you know, guys that can get off the field on third down. We didn't do a good on Sunday, but the first two weeks we did a good job of that and that was something I'm proud of as a Raider fan because we never see that, ever.

Well, there's going to be, at least with the extra playoff team, there will be a 9-7 playoff team, so they have a chance. So we'll see. Alright, worst of luck to your Yankees unless they play the Astros. Enjoy my annoying text during the playoffs

and listen to R2-C2. What are you doing, Thursdays? Yeah, Thursday. Every Thursday. And we'll bring you back on at some point. But worst of luck unless you're playing the Astros. Good to see you. Thanks.

All right. Thanks to Jackie and thanks to CeCe. Don't forget to check out the Ringer NBA's big live podcast right after game one of the finals, as well as me on Ryan Rosilla's podcast right after the finals. Double-barreled action.

Reactions. Don't forget about Bakari Seller's podcast coming off the debate. I hope you listen to that one right after you finish this one. And one last thing, the rewatchables,

the archive is moving to Spotify. It will still be available on all platforms for the last three months of pods. But if you want to get the old ones or the older ones or anything older than, I don't know, three months, it's on Spotify and that's it. So I love the Spotify app. It's great. I love controlling the speeds on it, all that stuff. You can check them out there.

They're all in order based on when we taped. And there you go. So we'll be back on this pod on Thursday. And if you miss me, you can listen to me on Rosso's pod on Wednesday. See you there. I want to see them on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them. On the wayside, on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them.