The Bill Simmons Podcast - Michael and Martellus Bennett on LeBron James's Activism, Tom Brady, and Getting Traded (Ep. 342)

Episode Date: March 21, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Michael and Martellus Bennett as they discuss why NBA players are more outspoken than NFL players (10:04), what Tom Brady is like as a teammate (34:32), how it feels to get the sudden call that you're being traded (53:02), what they want their legacies to be (56:57), and how elitism keeps change from happening in the NFL (1:16:51). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network brought to you by ZipRecruiter, our friends, our 2018 presenting sponsors, the people with a great view of the Pacific Ocean here in California. You know why? Because they have a great company. 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within a day. They're the best at distributing your job to the best boards, identifying the right people, inviting them to apply.

My listeners can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash BS. And if you haven't done that already, just do it. Do it for me. Father's Day is coming up. I have two kids. You can do it. A couple Ringer things to mention. The Ringer MLB show came back this week.

We changed the format. We wanted to get more of the staff involved. It relaunched on Tuesday. Michael Bauman hosting, talking to a bunch of staffers. Mallory Rubin got to complain about the Orioles. Sean Fantasy got to freak out about the Mets. Zach Cram broke down Otani's hole. Should he count as one fantasy guy or two

thing? I think he should count as one guy, personally. And then old friend Ben Lindbergh came in at the end. They broke down the free agency. This feed's going to go in a lot of directions over the next 10 days because the season is starting somehow very soon. If you're all

in on baseball and you know everything, I think you'll enjoy it. If you're a casual fan of your favorite team and you kind of sort of know what's going on, I think you'll enjoy it too. We're trying to get both sides of the coin there. And I mentioned this because Jacko and I are going to tape something today specifically for this pod. It's going to be Jacko's 2018 Yankee preview. And we're going to try to hose him down a couple times during it because I know he's very excited about this team. But subscribe right now, and you can get Jacko.

And when Jacko and I do the Red Sox-Yankees thing this season, I think we're going to gravitate over this pot every once in a while. So check it out. Ringer MLB show. Also, one more point of business for me, the recapables, which I hope you're listening to because we've been breaking down Atlanta. And it's a really fun podcast. I really, really genuinely enjoy it because that's my favorite show. And I just want to hear people talk about it after. Another one of my favorite shows is Billions. And we are launching the Recapables Sunday night.

So Mallory Rubin, the mother of dragons, and I, me, Bill Simmons, we are going to tape the Recapables season three billions. It's going to be every Sunday night during the season. This show will end and then Mallory and I are going to come on and we are going to break it down. She's taking this way more seriously than I do because she's just better at the stuff than I am. I'm lazy and I'm old. She has rewatched every episode. And if you go to binge mode this week, her and Jason Concepcion, the hardest working man in show business, are breaking down basically the first two seasons of Billions in their typical crazy deep dive way. They're going all in. And that's running, I think think late Thursday, early Friday.

So if you want to catch up on the two seasons and remind yourself of stuff like how funny it was that Axe and his wife trying to eat pizza, which was, I think the ringer staff's favorite moment of the last two years on any television show is watching these two foreigners pretend that they knew how to eat pizza. Hilarious, especially somebody from Sweden.

It looked like she had never held a pizza slice before. But a lot of that deep dive stuff, fantastic. It'll be great. I'm excited. I just hope Mallory doesn't kind of run me off the road, basically. I mean, she's a potent talent and she cares about this stuff.

I'm just going to try to hang on. I'm going to be like Larry Bird the last two Celtics seasons, just trying to hang on on what I remember, what's left of my ability. So check that out. Check out TheRinger.com this week. We have a lot of great stuff, and March Madness heating up, obviously. One Shining Podcast had an awesome week last week. I'm really proud of those guys.

They built their audience. They were in. It was an awesome college basketball weekend where we had the 16 over the one. We had some buzzer beaters. They were there for everything. We're doing videos on Instagram. It was great. I felt like I was watching the tournament with them the whole weekend. So check that out as well. Coming up, an interview I did yesterday with the Bennett brothers, Michael and Martellus, that we just press play and it just, it just goes. This was, I know I always say this, but this was definitely one of the most fun ones I've done just because

I didn't know what the hell was happening the whole time. We were just jumping around all these different directions and, uh, and I felt like it could have gone on for like 10 hours. So we, we left a little on the table for the next one. It's really fun. Coming up right now. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. What an honor. The Bennett brothers are here. Both of them are on their phone, even though I already started the podcast. I didn't know you started it.

Yeah, I started it. This is it. This is America now. Come on. You haven't been at dinner lately? Come on. Come on. It's like being with my kids. Yeah.

I've been waiting to do this one for a while. I already like one of you more than the other because you played for the Patriots, but he's on the Seahawks, who I did not like, and now he's on the Eagles. So we're going to have to get over that. We're going to have to get over the hump. You signed with the Eagles, what, a week ago? Or they traded you, so I guess it was- They traded me.

But you wanted it to happen, right? No, nobody ever wants to get traded. I thought you were leaving. I never said I was leaving. I said that there's an opportunity that people thought I was going to retire because I said that at the end of the season, it's a young man's game, which is true. Yeah.

But I was just saying this. I was just speaking the realities of sports. I think fans don't really like the reality when you talk about what's really happening in sports. Every year fans don't really like the reality when you talk about what's really happening in sports. Every year, teams change, people change, and so you never know what's going to happen. And so I ended up going to Philly. I mean, there was a lot of teams,

but Philly was the best situation. Yeah, there's no loyalty in sports, it turns out. There's no loyalty at all. I think people are figuring that out more and more every year, but it's still funny. I've done a bunch of podcasts with Durant. It started with Durant.

That's what I was going to say. Well, it really started with LeBron, though, right? When LeBron went to, when he jumped out of Cleveland, I was like, oh, my God, he stabbed Cleveland in the back. But then you see what happens in football. It's like, ah, you're not quite as good as you were before you're out. We released you. Sorry.

Yeah. And then that's it. I mean, you've had a couple experiences with that right yeah do i call you marty or martellus what do you want marty awesome guy okay mr beautiful it's all works for me yeah i mean you guys seem both very aware of your beauty mortality with of an nfl career that it's could be probably somewhere between 8 and 12 years depending on how good you are I'm saying for a

starter you gotta be a superstar or you gotta be like a guy who could just I guess if you can sneak around but most guys don't make it that far like 2 or 3 years is probably like the average career I mean that's the whole thing when they talk about that whole money thing, like athletes going broke.

If you really think about it, if you only play three years and you make 500,000, you pay your agent, 90% of that, then you pay taxes. And then you got two baby mamas, you got a car. That's pretty much it.

Some people don't have baby mamas, but they still got the baby mama drama. We did a, when I was at 30 for 30, we did a documentary called Broke. I know. That's what I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was- So you're part of the issue.

What? You think that was bad? You didn't like that one? No, because you didn't speak- I mean, what you were saying, a lot of stuff was kind of true, but then you didn't give the facts about how long people's careers are. That's a fair criticism. I want to talk about the good side, too, of

guys who did great with their money. Every documentary is biased, though. It's one person's perspective on a certain topic. Not every documentary is biased. That one was a really tough one, and I gotta say like, I liked it and I think it was important, but I also feel like it was flawed, and we

knew it at the time because we're trying to tell this story that's really like an eight-part story and we're trying to do it in an hour and a half or whatever it was. It wasn't bad. There was no way to 100% do that. You don't feel like every documentary is biased? No, I think you're trying to tell a story.

I don't think some of them. From your perspective. So anytime you tell a story from your perspective, it's somewhat biased. Well, if you do a documentary correctly, you're telling a story, but you're trying not to have bias in it. And I think that's the challenge. Yeah, that is a challenge.

Like some, most of the time it's hard to pull off. It's like you want to tell the truth, but you really can't tell the truth. The food's really good. It's the spaghetti good. You kind of go like. Well, so like we did the U, right? That was just like a straight shot of here's this program. Crazy stuff happened.

And then the coach, you know, the coach left. And that was part one. And then part two is like more crazy stuff happened. That really didn't have a perspective. It was just like, here's all the stuff that happened. But it was cool though, because you had actual players that were there at the time doing testimonies at the same time. Like, you know, yeah. But don't you feel like in the last few years, players are finding their voice publicly?

I think social media helps. Podcasts, videos. Just in general, I think it's easier for players to be heard than it was 20 years ago. Yeah, but they're not really saying what they really want to say. You guys are. But we're rare. Yeah, it's rare. That's why I hate the black unicorn.

I'm Black Santa. Those are two rare things. Those are two... Could you imagine Black Santa rolling on a slab pushed full by black unicorns as he delivered gifts out of a big black bag?

That's not... But we're... I mean, I feel like in the NFL or in sports, you got to wear a mask because everything's kind of tied to your sponsors and all those kind of things. So, I mean, I feel like in the NFL or in sports, you got to wear a mask because everything's kind of tied to your sponsors and all those kind of things. So, I mean, you can understand why guys don't want to take those chances.

Why would they want to walk off the edge when they know that they could build these bridges with all these other companies and why speak the truth? So, you know, you got to walk that fine line. You know, you're never going to hear certain athletes say certain things. But I think if you look at LeBron James, to me, LeBron James is like the only athlete at his level. Michael Jordan, not Tiger Woods, not anybody that's ever been at that level who speak on the things that LeBron James speaks on. But LeBron is at a point where you really can't touch him, right?

So he's a little safer for him to do it now because he's LeBron James. He's the greatest basketball player ever, you know? And third. Dep depends who you ask. Wilt Chamberlain first, right? Wilt's first, though, right? I got Jordan first. Who's second? Bill Russell. He won 11 titles in 13 years. That's

because he's on the team. How can he not have number one then? Jordan won. Why isn't Bill one? Jordan was at another level. Jordan was winning titles by himself. He didn't win won? Jordan was at another. Jordan was winning titles by himself. He ain't won a lot of crazy shit. He won game six in Utah by himself. Oh, so he scored 150 points?

No. So you think Wilt's number one? He passed the ball to himself, and then he dunked it, and then he took the ball out, and then he threw the ball to himself. I feel like Wilt Tramlin is the best player because his stats are just ridiculous. Look at a playoff history. A game, one of his series is 50 points, 34 rebounds, something crazy, a triple-double, but in 20 years, that's like-

With no three-point line. So you care about stats more than winning? I mean, I think it's- I just think at some point, what Will Tremblay did was just like- You have to if you're talking about the greatest player because it becomes individual statistics that that you put because there's like if not robert ory should be in the greatest category i have to say i wrote a huge basketball book and and rated robert horry higher than usual because i feel like what he did as a as a role player was freaking incredible he was like the best version of whatever you'd want in that spot. Yeah.

And that should. So the big question for me is like with him was, would you rather add his career or Carl Malone's career? Like almost everybody would pick Carl Malone. Right. But Robert Horry was a part of all these great championship teams, which is the whole point of sports sports. Right.

But Malone was first team on the NBA for 12 straight years and played for 20 years, and he's one of the 20 best players ever. But then he was so mean to Magic Johnson, though. Which one? He was so mean to Magic Johnson, though. Who was? Karl Malone. Yeah, that wasn't great. Yeah, that's one of his lowest

moments, probably. That was bad. So do you feel like NBA players have more leeway than NFL players to speak out? because i feel like they do yeah there's less it's less of them so like for us you think about like nba player there's nba guys that you may not even notice on a team that's bounced around in a nba for 15 17 years that's not happening in nfl i think that the the turnover rate is so fast and they're always looking to replace you anyway. So anything extra that's going to push you off the edge faster,

most guys try to stay away for, because the NFL promotes the team and the NBA promotes the players. The players are the league. So they love the individualism that comes from each player that they bring to the, to the, to the,

not only the league, but to the team. So they celebrate individualism in the NBA. In the NFL, they do not celebrate individualism because it pulls away from the logos of the team. So if you have guys over here that are super, super awesome and their brands are growing bigger and people think about them before they think of the team,

teams don't like that. They want to move away from that. He's selfish. Richard Sherman? Yeah. Yeah. Well, so NFL careers are half as long, teams don't like that they want to move away from that he's selfish Richard Sherman yeah yeah well so NFL careers are half as long

maybe even maybe even three times a fraction or half half as short maybe three times as short you guys are wearing helmets and the money's not guaranteed

so like and we don't have like you don't really recognize like the likeness of an NBA player is much more recognizable because you see their face all the time.

You zoomed in on their face. Like they get the Nike contracts, like NFL players. Like they don't really get the deals or get promoted like that. Yeah. Unless you like Odell Beckham and then you got the quarterback. Yeah. And quarterbacks.

And there are, most of them are super lame anyway. So, um, that wasn't a Tom Brady shot, right? No, I love Tom.

Okay. Good. Good. I would, I would just ended the podcast right now. Can't, can't bes't a Tom Brady shot, right? No, I love Tom. Okay, good. Okay. I would, I would just ended the podcast right now. Can't, can't smirch Tom Brady. Tom's cool in a Tom Brady way though.

Like, like Tom Brady is not, uh, transcending coolness. He's too famous now. It's almost like, and he's like 15 years older than half the guys in the team. But when I say cool,

I'm thinking about like, you want to dress like them. You want to, you know, You want to be that person. People wanted to be Mike, not only because of the way he played, but the way his charisma, his character, the way he looked, the way he's dressed. People wanted all of that. God's got the hoop earrings because of Mike.

People dressed like Odell, a grown man with blonde hair. Yeah. So kids want to be like Odell. That's true. I have a 10-year-old son who we throw passes in the backyard and he tries to catch one handers. I'm like, your hands are too small. You can't do the Odell.

You don't want to be like Odell. Yeah. They want to dress like him. They want to dance like him. That's when you start to transcend the sport. Yeah. And basketball, that happens more often. You have like, you know, a lot of kids, I don't know if they want to dress like Westbrook,

but Westbrook has definitely transitioned. He does like you know a lot of kids i don't know if they want to dress like westbrook but westbrook has definitely trained he does he's a lot of fashion victor cruz does a lot of fashion too as far as nfl but there's a good example he's gone in two years where he's like a star and then all of a sudden he was on a different team because odell beckham stole his life yeah all the stuff that vic was doing that was all awesome then all of a sudden he came this guy who's a little bit cooler yeah Yeah. You know, and hang out with Drake. Yeah. So I noticed with the NBA players

because I've loved the league my whole life and I watched it have all these up and downs where like when I was a kid in the 70s, it was the league. It was like,

it's too black. It can't, there's no way it can resonate with the mainstream. It's like, it's for white fans. And now, then it started flipping

in the 80s then in the 90s it flipped back the other way and it was like these guys are all overpaid they get paid too soon we gotta stop them they don't know how to handle money

and then like the LeBron era comes in and these last 15 years like we love the NBA and now I look around and it's like with Dame Lillard's maybe

what the 16th most famous basketball player he plays in Portland though he plays in Portland he's really famous With Dame Lillard's maybe, what, the 16th most famous basketball player? He plays in Portland, though. He plays in Portland. He's really famous. If he walked anywhere, people would know who he was. Whereas Mike Trout on the Angels, he could walk by us right now,

and I don't know if everyone would even recognize him. He's the best baseball player. I would recognize his biceps before I recognize his face. Yeah, you'd be like, that guy's jacked. He's got to play a sport. But yeah, I do think they have advantages. I think people feel like they're connected to them. And I think that's a big reason why the league's taking off. But the other thing that we didn't talk about is,

you know, the owners and the commissioner and the NBA, they understand that it's a player's league. Yeah. They drive the attention to the players. The NFL's the opposite. But you're saying the NFL is making way more money than the NBA. Right. They're driving.

They don't want you guys to become stars. They sold Thursday night football four times. Right. So how'd you feel about that? Because that's a nightmare to play on a Thursday after you played on a Sunday. Oh, it's hard. But I was amazed. I'm like, so what, you sold it to Amazon?

Then you sold it to Twitter. Oh, yeah, you sold it to four different suitors. Then you sold it to Yahoo. I'm like, how did you get it? Then you sold it to, you know, you sold it, it's like they got it on TV. They got it on Instagram. They got it on, they got it on every single format. And so, like, the business plan for the NFL is crazy.

Like, they said that, like, even, like, the All-Star game, like, the NBA All-Star game has all those different things. And it still didn't reach the number for the Pro Bowl. And it's like, as much as people love, say that they love the NBA, the NFL is still the America sport. Yeah. It's funny. Like sometimes on a Thursday night, there'll be an awesome game like in November and it'll be like Golden State versus OKC, Russ versus KD.

And it feels like everybody in my life, all they're thinking about is this game. And then I'll be like Tennessee versus Indianapolisapolis on Thursday football. I did twice the rating. It's like, how is that possible? People love football. People love football. I feel like when you think about a sport that is just American sports, only played here. So it's like baseball is played in other countries. Basketball is played in other countries.

Soccer is played in other countries. But the NFL is just here. And so it's like people live by that. When people play a city, they feel like they're a part of it. When Seattle plays LA, we're versus their city we're better than that city we don't like them you know but the the other thing that too though is that like if you miss a basketball game you feel like you can see it later right the football games only happen in once like once it happens it's gone you want to be it's not as fun to watch it two hours later

yeah it's social currency so like you get to go to work on friday and be like hey did you see that game last night you know so but like basketball be like oh i miss um kd versus westbrook oh they got five more games this year they're gonna play against each other i'll just catch one you can go on league pass and just bang through watching a basketball game rerun is not like watching an nfl game rerun it's like totally different. And then when you go to the NBA games, you go to the stands and there's more people getting food than there is watching a game there. But the NFL is like, every time you look up, it's full. Nobody's ever leaving.

People pee on themselves. People wear adult diapers so they can watch the game. I'm not Tom Brady. I'm not moving in Super Bowl. I'm going to pee on myself. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to watch the Super Bowl. I'm not Tom Brady's guy. I'm not moving in Super Bowl. I'm going to appeal myself. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to watch the Super Bowl. I'm not going to move.

Or they know that there's a 12-minute break between the point after, the instant replay, the kickoff, the 10 minutes of commercials. It's like a movie. Maybe they run out right then. It's like a movie. I don't like live football as much. I love watching it on TV,

especially now that the TVs are nice and wide and HD. I can see everything. When I go to a game, I'm just like... The seats are too uncomfortable. Probably because you're in the suite. No, I'm not in the suite. I sit with the fans. You sit with the fans? Why wouldn't I? I thought you was like a Kardashian. You famous like a Kardashian?

I thought you was a Kardashian. I have Clippers season tickets and I go... How much do those cost? They're going to cost less next year Yeah they will I'll tell you that much They got rid of everybody

You know me and DeAndre Jordan Played together in high school Yeah so You were You were like good enough At basketball To think you could potentially Actually play basketball

Professionally right? He just shot you down Or did he? Nice That's like Yeah what did he say? So nice No

I was in a dream I was in a dream That I was in a dream. That's not what I did. You thought you potentially could be able to play. I know you're in the Eagles, but start trying to trouble. No,

he did like the query for the draft. I remember that whole thing. Yeah, man. You were in, you were ready, you were ready to do it. Yeah.

I worked out for teams. I worked out for the Supersonics and the Grizzlies and other teams as well. What was his game like? Man, I feel like he was like LeBron James as far as being able to— You just compared him to the greatest player of all time, according to him.

I was just body typing what he was doing. He was going to the lane. He was strong. He was like a LeBron to me. Physical. LeBron's like a football player playing basketball, but not like a Blake Griffin way. Blake Griffin's a basketball—he looks like a football player when he's playing. He's like,

he has the ball. He's like moving slow, but then like LeBron was like fast. Like a power game with speed. He's like moving like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And Martoz is like that too.

I feel like he was, he was quick. He was tight end. I would say my game was like Dwayne Ways. Interesting. That's my favorite player growing up.

How tall are you? Six, seven. Do you play anymore or no? Yeah, I still play. I still got it. I can't shoot like I used to because I don't shoot enough shots. Well, what's funny is now there's this whole trend of taking college basketball players and converting them to tight end, but you're kind of

the opposite. How many of them have actually been successful at it though? Only a couple. Yeah, so like everybody has this idea like they take all these basketball. There's more guys in the NFL that could play in the NBA than there are NBA guys that could play in the NFL. Well, do you think if you guys were growing up now, let's say you're 8 and 10 or whatever the age difference is.

Because that's got to play a factor. Yeah. If I'm playing sports, is my dad successful? What are we talking about? The same background you had when you were growing up. It's just we're moving it 20 years forward. Are you more prone to play basketball than you would have been 20 years ago? Knowing what you know now about football.

I'd be a YouTube star. Be a YouTube star? You'd be like opening toys on YouTube? They make so much money. Which is the creepiest thing ever. $26 million this year? I was like, now everybody wants to be a YouTube star. It's so easy.

Like, you know, you can just be home. But either be a YouTube star or an NBA. I think that's like two good jobs. Did you play basketball or you always football? No, football and swimming and tennis and stuff like that. Swimming? Yeah, brother that can swim. Don't get surprised.

No, I'm more surprised by your over 200 pounds. I didn't know your people could swim. That's amazing. Not only is he a swimmer, he's a certified lifeguard. This is a funny riff, but that's the only thing. I've never seen a swimmer over like 170 pounds. That was a big swimmer. Have you ever seen a lifeguard in the hood?

Nah, that is a summer job. That's a real hard job. Now you're trying to get me in trouble. That's a hard job. You got to be ready. You got to be on alert all day. My sister almost drowned like three times. She's here right now. I was just, why do you keep running to the pool. You got to be on alert all day. My sister almost drowned like three times. She's here right now.

I was just, why do you keep running to the pool? You can't swim. Nah, I got to be the guy to save the girl in the pool. And then everybody wants to know, who's that? Like, that's my sister. So it was like, yeah. So swimming was something I liked doing. Tennis, all that kind of stuff.

Were you, your basketball, football, you were everything? And then you just settled on the two? I mean, I was the number your basketball, football, you were everything, and then you just settled on the two? I mean, I was the number one basketball, number one football player in the state. I grew up in band. I grew up playing instruments, and I was an artsy-fartsy guy. I enjoyed doing art and crafts. Who was the number two basketball player in the state? Calvin Miles, C.J. Miles.

C.J. Miles? C.J. Miles? Yeah. Still cranking. Me and him. On Toronto. Me and him used to go at it. I've always liked that dude's game. We used to go at it.

He's a good role player. We used to battle all the time in high school. Yeah? Some people had him at number one. And then the other guy was Gerald Green. Gerald Green? Mm-hmm. Played on the Celtics.

He never got a good contract. I don't know how. He always does a good job coming off the bench. So I'm a Celtic fan, so I was there for early Gerald Green. He should have gone to college for a year. He was too raw when he came in. He could shoot and he could jump. He could shoot and jump, but he had no idea

how to do anything else. Now he's like, he was on the Celtics last year, and he was the clubhouse leader of the team. They loved him. He's like the guy. I'm glad he got to go home. He's like their enforcer. You need an enforcer of the team. Like, they loved him. He was like the guy. He's like the Rockets now. I'm glad he got to go home. He's like their enforcer. Yeah. Yeah.

You need an enforcer on your team. Yeah, of course. You need that one or two guys that's going to, if somebody pushes Chris Paul in the stands, at least one guy

has to come over and be like, you don't do that to Chris Paul. Yeah, you don't want people like a whole bunch of Russell Wilsons, you know what I'm saying? You got to have like one,

you got to have three or four martial arts on your team at any moment. You'll never know what they're going to do, whether they're going to come to work or drop kick the coach. Latrell Spiro, you just never know. You can't have a whole bunch of nice people on the sports team. You need one good guy that does everything right, prays and does all the stuff, and then be like, hey, let's go play.

And then you need some thugs. That's just how it go. You need a couple guys that are seven-round draft picks that drive Ferrar play. Right. Yeah, yeah. And then you need some thugs. That's just how it go. You can't. Yeah, you need a couple guys that are like seven-round draft picks that drive Ferraris. Yeah. Because they're going to bring it every single day. They live in that lifestyle. They get drunk the night before, hang out with some Instagram models, you know, and they just, they live the IG life.

They got a lot of jewelry. But when they come to work, you know you're going to get their best because they just love the life. When Marshawn left the Seahawks, could you feel it in the locker room? Oh, yeah, man. Marshawn's personality is so big. He's one of those dudes I feel like is really like Nina Simone. He has that misunderstood.

People just misunderstand him all the time because he's such a great guy when it comes to doing community. He's just a good teammate. When he shows up to everybody's thing, he plays hard, practices. When he practices, he practices hard. So when he left, you could feel it. He was just that guy who had that swag that made the Seahawks feel like a different type of team.

He ran the ball the way that, you know, the old guys ran it, Jim Brown and all those kind of guys. And Walter Payton, you know, he would truck people. And Natron Means and guys like that, like, they'd carry the ball and be tough with it. And so he brought a lot of stuff to the team. I'll tell you, when he got to the one-yard line after Hightower tackled him and we're freaking out and I don't understand why Belichick won't call timeout

and I just assumed they were going to give it to Lynch again and then they threw it. I was very relieved they didn't give it to Lynch because even though I think we had all of our big dudes. We had every single over 250 pound guy on the team in the front. Like we were definitely in like run, goal line, all time. You're not running on us. But I still feel like he might have scored.

Who, Marshall? I think he, I just feel like he would have gotten a yard. It was second down, right? It was second down. Who plays this? It was Super Bowl. Right after. Hightower tackle to my first down. Don't act like you don Super Bowl, right after Hightower attacked him on the first down.

Don't act like you don't remember the play. Yeah, come on. Come on, Michael. The play that set Seahawks in a turmoil there right now. Was that true? They haven't been able to recover from it at all. Now they try to get rid of all the guys they experienced. I want to forget about Bill Cosby.

I just want to forget. What are you talking about? Jell-O pudding. I don't know what happened. I'm sure it didn't happen. I didn't know. I gave her some water, but she was thirsty. Was that true?

The stories about the team was pissed after that they didn't hand it off to Lynch and they didn't understand it and that actually caused real dissension? I don't know. I wasn't there. So I left after the game. I went straight to my wife's grandmother's funeral. I left after the game. So I don't know, I wasn't there. So I left after the game. I went straight to my wife's grandmother's funeral. I left after the game. So I don't know what happened really. And then I never came to off season workouts either.

So I guess. That sounds like a non-denial. Well, I was, I don't know. I can't really be honest with you. I don't know. You had teammates.

You didn't talk to them about it. You didn't text people. Like why the hell did they hand off to Marshawn? I mean, people, of course people were mad, but I mean, you have to get over

those type of things. I think everybody just kind of just moved on. Some people didn't. All the people I hung with, they moved on from me. Why are you holding your mic like you Jimi Hendrix

or somebody? He's going to get upset. He's like, running around like Chris Rock. I'm like, Tom Petty. Oh, man. I miss Tom Petty. How often do you think

about the pass interference on the game winning touchdown and overtime where you could have just caught it? I know somebody's like, Oh, you dropped the game winning. You didn't drop it. You got interfered with.

You set up the touchdown. Try to catch it around his back. I mean, you should have been MVP that game though. You made some good plays that game. You had that touchdown. Yeah. I mean,

we caught it so many times too. Tom always looks at me. He's like, master, just put it up a little bit more up there for you. But we both look at each other like, but we won. It was cool because it was like,

in my, like my role with the Patriots was always interesting. So it was like every single game was a little bit different. I was battling a lot of injuries when I was playing, like, you know, whatever.

You played hurt that whole year. Yeah. You had a couple different injuries, right? Yeah. Yeah. I played hurt every, I mean, there was a time where I tore my MCL on a Sunday and played played on a thursday night football game jesus why like that's what you do

like people like that's why people like oh you fake injuries i'm like what the fuck are you talking about i've played through pretty much everything you could possibly play through as a as a player so what do you remember about that game now which was the greatest football comeback of all time and one of the great comebacks of all time is it like a blur now no i mean the the thing i remember most like the most telling time in the whole game was like so like we're out there we're playing and we're getting our ass kicked but it's more we felt like it was our fault you know yeah and we're on the side like we're like that guy that loves the girl in the middle but there's other guys on the other side

are dancing with her but you could tell that she doesn't really want to dance with them. And she's just waiting for you to come and be like, may I have this dance? But you don't. So the Falcons were those other guys that were dancing with the pretty girl. But then we just plotting the whole time, right? But we throw the interception. I catch a screen and get negative eight yards on a screen or something like that. And then we go into halftime. And is like the most pivotal point of the game like

we've won you know we lost one game when tom was back to them in a last second play and then we lost one to the bills which you know there was a whole bunch of shit going on so we haven't really lost any games that year and we never really like like we had a little adversity. Nobody beat you. Yeah. We had a little adversity, but no one just beat us. So we get to the halftime. We go into halftime and I'm like, all right, this is going to be interesting. I'm like one of those guys that like to see how people are going to react in certain situations of life. Because I read a lot of these philosophy books and stuff like that, like leaders eat last and things like that.

And so we get in there and there's no rah-rah speech. There's nothing. We already kind of, because with Bill, we had already practiced halftime as well. So we already knew. Because he knows it's so long. You can't, you got to kind of pace yourself. So it's like your first five minutes, you get to yourself. I come in, we have, I like the EPB and J's before and after the game. So I'm a big peanut butter and jelly guy. And oranges, I get there, take off our shoes. It's hot and it's Texas and we're just chilling. I look around, everyone's just focused, like in a locker.

And then call us up, like coach, like, hey, what do you guys see? We tell coach what we see. He tells us what he's thinking. This is Josh and whatever. And then we go back to our seats. But like, no one was like, we got to do this. It wasn't like Rudy or any given sunday it wasn't robert de niro on any given sunday or anything like that it was just a bunch of guys in the

locker room and then the only thing that was said like all right there's like two minute warning or whatever then we got the two minute warning and then you look around everyone looked each other in the face and you could just kind of tell like all right we locked in and then julian edelman was like um juju was like, he was like, all right, we got 30 minutes to make history. This is all we got. What are we going to do? Then we went back out there and we made history.

But when we came back the second half, we could tell that they were tired. Yeah. So, like, we were looking at them. And the whole time, that half of the game was, like, my first time experiencing a game where nothing else mattered but, like, your job. You know, like, they had me chipping. And usually as a tight end,

they was playing man-to-man the whole game. Usually as man-to-man, you're like, why I got to chip? Everybody else get to run routes. This game, it was like, Dwight Freeney will look up at me. I'll see Dwight. He'll just shake his head. I'm like, yeah, my bad, bro. This is just what I got to do. Then they run the tech stunt where they start twisting because when you chip a lot, they start

twisting to help that you get a guy free. Also, into the chip, I'll just wait for them to finish the tech stunt where they start twisting because when you chip a lot, they start twisting to help that you get a guy free. But I was so into the chip, I would just wait for them to finish the techs, and then I'd chip the defensive tackle coming around. So it was just like I didn't know who caught the ball, who got the ball. It was just like when they called your number, you came through. And whatever they asked you to do at that moment in time was just total focus on everyone doing their job. And Michael, you're watching just going, they're coming back, they're coming back. I was the only person that said that. I asked Trent Difford, Steve Young. We were all sitting up in the suite.

I was like, they're coming back. Well, we knew that they didn't have a lot of like, they had a, we felt like they were front runners. Right? When they had the league, everything was going well. They were going to really, really put it on you. But like when things weren't going their way, we felt like we could just get them. You could break them a little. Yeah.

And they had Arthur Blank was on the sideline looking like the guy off of Pink Panther. Yeah. And he's on the sideline. They over there. They're dancing. All the Ludacris is there. Future is there. The Migos on the sideline talking about Versace, Versace, Versace.

Everybody's already celebrating. Here we are. We got Bon Jovi. Two Chains told me, he was like, Mike, you know, I got a song already in the lab being made. I'm like, seriously? They were the ones. He had a new song. Usher had.

Everybody had songs for the A after that game. So we get there and then like slowly we just see them getting tired. And the whole time we're all thinking like we look at each other like, I'm not going to get tired. You're not going to get tired. We felt like we had. But the conditioning is a big thing with the Pats. It's the most underrated thing that they do.

We ran the hill every single day, even going into the Super Bowl. To the day we got on the plane, the day before we got on the plane, we ran the hill one more time to go down to Houston. And it's just like one of those things like, really, what the it's cold the hill is frozen you can't get on there it's like you're still running it and then but those moments where we just felt like we did more than they did yeah so we weren't gonna get feeding off it yeah we started feeding off of it what's brady like during this whole thing uh he's gonna like tom cruise and mission impossible yeah he's kind of like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible. Yeah. He's just calm. Yeah, he's just super calm. And I think his thing is he knows that, like, he feeds off –

like, he knows everyone feeds off his energy. So he's real, like, hey, you know, he called very articulate with the play. Like, hey, this is what you got. And Tom's one – the thing I love about Tom is because you come to Tom and be like, hey, Tom, I'm open. And most quarterbacks are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody's open. And Tom was like, oh, yeah, I see it right here. Does he see it?

Does he not see it? Who knows? But he makes you feel like, you know, he knows what you're talking about. He gives a shit. There's been games where, you know, I didn't get, maybe I got one pass thrown my way. And after the game, Tom was like, he'll come and he'll show me like, hey, I should have got you the ball at least four more times today times today just keep doing what you're doing you're doing a great job we

did a great job getting open during this game i just missed you so it's nothing that you're doing as me and you're just kind of like well shit all right like you know what i'm saying it's tom brady that's pretty good stuff oh that's how he is and like me and tom connected over a home decor so so we both like we like we both like interior decoration. That was my favorite part of his Facebook show. I like seeing his house. Look at what Tom did with his office. He had a Facebook show?

Tom had a Facebook show called Tom versus Time. And it was kind of like, I don't know, it was a little bit like an infomercial, but it was also like, really, this is his family and this is, this, this is how he prepares for games and all this stuff. It was good. Tom's a great guy.

I recommend it. Like Tom's a guy, like I feel like after football, there's not many guys I play with that, you know, that I would talk to, but Tom would text me. Well,

mostly we DM each other on the IG, but he'll text me out the blue and just be like, man, what you doing up? What you doing, Marty? Like, cause he always knows I'm doing cool shit.

So I think he lives vicariously through me sometimes. You're a free agent as we tape this. Is that a possibility to come back to the Pats? I mean, yeah. It came up in conversation. I'd be excited. Because you get excited easily, though. Well, I care about my team.

I'm a good fan. I'm the kind of fan that you should respect more. I really care about the players I root for. I care about my team. I'm a good fan. I'm the kind of fan that you should respect more. I really care about the players I root for. I care about their safety. You don't go to their funerals. Well, I don't do that. Yeah, see, now how good of a fan are you? Michael Jackson died. All his fans went to his funeral.

Chris died. He's not that good of a fan. When he was there, everybody was there. What he was saying about how the offense can feel it and rally together and this is like, we got these guys. We worked hard on these. That must happen with defenses, right? Did you feel that during the Broncos Super Bowl?

Defense is different, though. It's kind of like offense, they're like a whole bunch of guys. They all do offensive kind of things, like go dinners and do yoga. Defense, they do wild stuff, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, it would just be wild packs of guys. We just go out and just, we just go out there and just have a good time. For us, it's just about beating the guy in front of you every single time. And that's what we just do every time. I mean, the guy in front of us, everybody felt like they were better than the guy in front of them with the Broncos, whether it was their corners or was it linebackers or whether it was a D

line. So you don't feel like collectively, there's not a feeling like we can break these guys. We got these guys. We're getting, we're getting to them. I don't think they have to be in that sink as the offenses. Yeah.

That makes sense. When you click it and you're hot, like, I mean, there was a time where one day, like even at like our practices are set up for like failure and things like that. And there's days where the defense will be

installing a defense that will just have our number that day, right? And Josh McDaniels, even at practice, Josh McDaniels, the next day, him, Tom, our whole offense will be like, we're going to kick our defense ass today, and we'll go 17 for 17 at practice, and we're high-fiving each other, and they're mad.

So that was how we were every single day. The competition level at the Patriots is one of the highest places i've been competing like in a weight room like you go in the weight room there's it's like college you got guys numbers on there like really squad is the most and things like that so the competition that they that is in the culture there is like one of the biggest things like patrick chung like the if i run a good route on patrick chung he'll high five he'll shake my hand, but I can see in his eyes, he's just like, I'm going to get you next time.

Same thing with Dev. Me and Devin McCourty, we'll go at it and things like that. It was just this environment of competition. A lot of teams don't have that. A lot of teams want to preach competition, competition, competition. We're going to go out there and compete, and we're going to be the best. We want the best guys to compete. We're going to win the game because compete and we're going to be the best. We want the best guys to compete

and we're going to win the game because that's what we do here. They don't really do it. You should do this for a living. What? I don't know, talk. You could be the studio guy. I know.

You're probably getting in trouble. I'm working on some stuff now. That sounds cryptic. Yeah. Fellas, hold on. We got to take one break. All right. Coming back to take one break. All right. Coming back with the Bennett brothers.

I'm fascinated by the difference in the locker rooms with Seattle and New England. Like the stuff you're talking about. Cause Seattle had both rays, right? It was great. It was great. It was great. And then as an outsider, you could kind of see.

This doesn't seem great anymore. It doesn't make any sense. That's like walking past a house and being like, I bet the people in the house are just assholes. They can't do that. You got to be in there.

Sometimes you can tell by the alarm, though. You can tell by the alarm. You can tell by the quotes. You can tell by whether people are leaking stuff. You can tell by... But you got to understand,

Seattle's like, our team was the, was the most famous team in the NFL. Like, there's no team that had as most famous team in the NFL. There's no team that had as many famous people on the team. Everybody on our team was a superstar. Every time everybody I looked at and I looked behind me, there's somebody. Every single commercial was somebody from my team.

It was Russell, me, or whoever it is. It's somebody on our team. Everybody on our team is super famous. So everybody just, people just feel like they know our story and they think that we're not close, but everybody on the team was close. Everybody went to everybody's thing. It was just that... So you think it was overblown? It was overblown because there's never been a team where everybody

was like that. Name one team that has that many superstars on that team. The 85 Bears. I mean, even they had some issues. The Giants. I'm saying now, think about it, which team has had that many famous people? Not in the last decade, for sure. No, that's what I'm saying.

I always thought that, because I hang out in Seattle, so I hang out with all those guys. The things that I thought made them best, and this is just me from the outside speaking in, is that the way their team had bonded, right? So if you go there, they have barbecues, and every single guy is at the barbecue.

Like everyone dropped by the barbecue. I'm like, man, you can't even get a guy to go to lunch with you on most teams, you know? They play basketball together. Like one person

have a party for their kids and everybody's kid is there. It's just like everyone made time for each other. I think part of what happens to a team that's that close is when you start moving certain parts out,

there are some guys that you may not look at as the players they are in the field, but the bond that they brought into the locker room. So when you start moving those pieces away, those are the corner pieces to the table. Everybody enjoys the surface of the table, but no one ever talks about the legs on the table, right? What's the most dysfunctional team you've played on? Was there a season where you're like, wow, this is messed up? I never really played on a dysfunctional team you've played on was there a season where you're like wow this is messed up i never really played on dysfunctional team i think and i play defense line too so it's like every defense is always close we just always like we always go do stuff together just had is like richard sherman's getting married next week and

like everybody's like you feel you feel bad if you're not going like it's like why am i not going like sherman's it's like that's how close everybody is on our defense. And it's just like, so we were always super close. So I've never really, there was never really any dysfunction from my perspective. You had one dysfunctional team. Which one? The Bears team. One of those Bears teams got a little weird.

That shit was crazy. Yeah. You were getting in trouble. You were saying stuff. Huh? So when it goes wrong with a football team, what goes wrong? Is it the best players? Is it the leadership?

What is it? It always starts with leadership. And when the leadership is weak, other guys try to lead the army, right? So it's like everybody wants to become the leader. So everyone feel like if there's not a good leader in place that sets the tone for the team. Like Belichick's a great leader. You know what I'm saying? Like, Pete Carroll's a great leader.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, if that leader is not setting the tone for everybody else, then everyone starts leading small groups. So then it becomes militias and not an army. So now we're all like Mel Gibson and the Patriots. But people gotta respect the coach. There's not a lot of coaches that people respect in the NFL.

But the coaches don't respect the players sometimes. Even just like if you think about the coaches, not a lot of coaches that are highly respected by the players because they don't tell the truth or they don't always keep it real with you. So it's like when coaches don't do that, people just automatically shut them off and they look for leaders and look for guidance from somebody else. But like Coach Carroll, you don't feel that.

You feel like he cares about you a tad bit more than any other coach I've ever been a part of. I like playing for honest coaches. Yeah, I like playing for honest coaches. That's why I like for me. If you suck, like, oh, yeah, all right, I sucked today. All right, Coach. All right, I will do better.

You know, because it's so honest. And we play great. Like, hey, what you did yesterday is we need more of that. Like, either it could be practice or whatever it is. Like, there's coaches that notice everything. But then you got to have leaders and unbiased leaders, right? Because sometimes guys get so big in their minds or whatever that they start acting like they're not normal people. And then those are guys that – and then sometimes coaches pick leaders.

You can't pick leaders, right? Leaders emerge. So you can't say like, right? Leaders emerge. So you can't say like- Man, you read a lot of leadership books. No, this is just my philosophy on life. This is philosophy. Well, it sounds like you need to write a leadership book. I could.

Leaders Eat Last. I've learned that today. Leaders Eat Last. That's an actual book. That's an actual book. Leaders Eat Last. Written by Navy Seal. Really?

Yeah. Well, so a lot of people think about, just to go back, let's talk about leaders. So like- Yeah. A lot of people think about the wolf pack, you know, and they think about the alpha dog in the wolf pack. Well, the alpha dog is in the back of the wolf pack. It's not in the front. Because if you're going to attack a wolf pack, you're going to attack it from the back.

You're not going to attack it from the front head on. And so the weakest wolves are usually in the back. So it protects the older ones that can't really keep up. So the alpha male is usually in the back of the wolf pack. So like a lot of guys want to be like out in the front. Let's go, let's go, let's go. But sometimes it's the guy that's in the back that you may not see. That's not the hip, hip, hooray guy or whatever.

Nothing's worse than like a terrible pregame speech. Like the one, what's the name? He's like, let's go eat the W. The James Winston. Yeah. Every time I see him, every time I was in's the name? He's like, let's go eat the W. Hold up, the James Winston. Yeah. Every time I see him, every time I was in there,

I was talking to him. Let's go eat the W. I get what he was saying, like, you know, saying like, but there's a lot more of those speeches. He just happened to be

the one that got caught on camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes guys be talking, he be like, man, why this motherfucker talking? Like he ain't like,

you know, like if you look at what he did in practice. And who nominated you? Yeah, they nominate themselves or Coach nominate them because he thinks or they think that people look up to him. But half the time, people don't fuck with him like that. Can I say fuck with him like that on there? You can say whatever the fuck you want.

People don't fuck with him like that. Fuck, fuck. It's fine. Hold up. We'll keep all of it. Slater was one of the guys in the Pats. I love Slater. Yeah, Slater's like big, you know, get people in.

All right, guys. But the people who are the leaders are the ones that's always themselves. Yeah. Right. If you're an asshole, be an asshole every day. We know that you're an asshole. So it's easier to accept you in that role. Right.

And if you're going to be like a hill ride guy that's want to do the right thing, you can't just do it when coach is looking. Right. You got to be that guy all the time because we see you all the time. We see you when coach doesn't see you. We don't believe you when you start acting a certain way because coach is in the room. I always hear stories about players.

I won't name them. Name them? I hate unnamed sources. Name them. Add them. Add them on Twitter. You're going to add them on Twitter we're gonna add you on Twitter right now Drake says it

Drake says it on Twitter fingers guys who have a high profile but maybe in the lacrosse I know a lot of them there's a lot of people like that but like you said

it's just the truth I mean can you win in football if your quarterback's not a leader yeah you can win I mean most quarterbacks aren't the leaders

it's the people who put it's the offense and defense line and people like that who do the hard lifting are usually the leaders of the team. I think if you accept the fact that your quarterback's not a leader, then you can't win. Right. Because you should run away. But if he's trying to be a leader, then that's when it doesn't work.

Sometimes they ain't trying. They try to force him to be a leader. That's what I mean. But that's not who he is. Right? Just let him be who—just because there's this idea of, like, you're the quarterback, so you're the quarterback, so you're Jim Moxon. You got to be like Moxon. I'm Varsity Blues.

So it's like, wherever it may be, but sometimes that's not his personality. He may lead in a different way, right? Because most people think of a leader, they think about the guy that talks. Sometimes people just lead by example. Like Julius Peppers. Julius Peppers never said shit to anybody but when he did you listen because he only said stuff when he need to

but the way that he played and the way that he led on the way by example you follow him you know what I'm saying they don't make sports movies about like the left tackle they did you gotta be adopted by white people for them to make that movie

he definitely wasn't a leader you have to a leader. He got adopted by white people. He definitely wasn't a leader. You have to be adopted by a white family. Then they'll make a movie about you. If you're an office lineman. Me and Michael, I think me and Michael were played in an All-American game together, actually. Yeah. That was a fascinating, I really liked the book.

And I got to say, I hated myself for it, but I also liked the movie. Sandra Bullock. I thought Sandra Bullock was great. I love her she was awesome she used to be my crush to me that's like a sandra book yeah after seeing her speed when she was on speed on that bus i was just like oh yeah it's great pull over pull over keanu reeves let me get on the bus i don't mind if i have to sit on the back of that bus even mendez is mine well i think she's single and she lives here. I'm sure if she hears, who knows?

Who knows what would happen? He used to put, in college, he used to have a car and he had this magazine where it was like Eva Mendez and he used to put her in the front seat and buckle her in, in the magazine. I love Eva Mendez. And he wouldn't let nobody sit in the front. I'm talking about, yeah, Eva Mendez rolling with me today. I was like, yeah, Eva, you better sit your ass in the back of this one because I'm sitting in the front. I'm talking about, yeah, Ivo Mendes rolling with me today. I was like, yeah, Ivo, you might as well sit your ass in the back of this one, because I'm sitting in the front with these long-ass legs.

Ivo Mendes, yeah, she was the one that came today. Isn't she with Ryan Reynolds? Don't remember. No, Ryan. She was with Ryan, guys. Oh, Ryan. Is she still with him? Don't remind me.

Well, that's a beautiful couple. Who knows? You know, when actors date actors, it doesn't last long. You can't be ruled out. I believe in y'all. Go ahead. I don't know. I'm still upset about that. You've been married

for 27 years. Yeah, I'm saying. I still don't see How many years? They met when we were freshmen in high school. They've been together since freshman year

of high school. Wow. Yeah, a long time. So you're a loyal guy. Yeah. So does it hurt when you switch teams? No.

I've been hurt a little bit. It hurt a little bit. It's just a job to you? It hurt a little guy. Yeah. So does it hurt when you switch teams? No. I mean, it hurt a little bit. It hurt a little bit. It's just a job to you? It hurt a little bit. I think because how much I just love the city of Seattle. It was like the business part is like the business part, but I like actually love the city. Like I go into Seattle, like you could do whatever you want to do.

Like, you know, it just was the city. I just liked it because it was a small city and you felt the vibe from everybody they fucking love their team there they do but then I went to Philly they really

like crazily love their team there they go crazy have you played for an east coast city yet you haven't right no this is my first time I've ever been in a big city Boston, Philly, New York like Washington

it's a whole other level because it's cold all the time I walk into the basketball game I got a standing ovation yeah it's a whole other level I think and if you screw up you're gonna hear it too so be ready for all the variations I got a house invation. Yeah, it's a whole other level. I think. And if you screw up, you're going to hear it too.

So be ready for all the variations. I got a house in another country. So it's like at any point I can dip off and be somebody else, John Hancock. I think change for Michael is a little bit tougher than it is for me because Michael's change is when he could change. Like he wanted to change the scenery. I'm going to go get a house in Morocco. You know, like he liked to change his own pace. Did you really get to have some Morocco? I don going to go get a house in Morocco. You know, like, he liked to change his own pace. Did you really get a house in Morocco?

I don't speak on things like that on TV. But I'm saying, but like, for him, like, for, so, but when someone else forces him to go into a change of situation, then it's like, you know, because you don't really get, because Michael liked to prepare. Like, he's like a preparation guy. Like, before he makes a move, he, you know, he talks

about, you know, like, okay, they have this side of town. Like, he studies the place before he goes there like okay they had this side of town he like he studies the place before he goes there like i just kind of jump in like i'm always been a guy who jumped in the water and be like oh shit there's sharks in here you know i'm saying like michael would know there were sharks in there before i'll just be in a motherfucker with the sharks okay what do i know what did i learn on shark week no he right though because he's like i'll be like just I'll study the city the price

everything I just how I am which sometimes is a bad way to be cause sometimes you think so far ahead that you don't get to live in that moment right there

so when you get when you you could join the Eagles who reaches out to you other than the coach like do do the some players reach out

are they texting you what happens first Jeffrey called me. Alshon? No, Jeffrey Lauer. Yeah, the owner. Yeah, he called me.

And then the GM. But I was in New Zealand when they first was trying to get in contact with me. And then I came back. And the day before they traded me, I was on my way to Japan. So then they had to wait till I got back to Japan to go to Philly. That's why I just went

to Philly the other day. But they were contacting me while I was in New Zealand. I'm like, dude, I'm like in New Zealand. Like every time you contact me, it's a whole nother day. Like, yeah,

I'm ahead of you guys. So it was like, so you got to start thinking about moving. What's my, where am I going to live? Do I get you a house? They're ruining my trip

because I'm all the way in New Zealand trying to do fun shit I've never done before. Yeah. I got worried about, you know, if I could call me on the phone

figuring out if I'm getting traded. Fuck, when I got traded, I was at Disney World. I was like, yeah, this is Bill Belichick. We just traded for you.

Can you come in? Can you fly in tonight? I'm like, because it's my daughter's birthday. I'm at fucking Disneyland right now. Yeah. Spend money on this shit. I'm looking at fucking Peter Pan right in the face right now.

Like, I'm going to help him find his shadow. And here you are, Tomar, can't you come to Boston? So it's like you always get traded in the most inopportune times. Yeah. The middle of sex, you know, like Disneyland, New Zealand, you know, Japan. You never just like, oh, yeah, I'll be here in just a second because it's the offseason. Yeah, then Rebecca was just, you need to pick a flight. You need to pick this.

You need to go. I'm like, I don't want to pick a flight right now. It's 7 a.m. It's actually 07 o'clock p.m. I'm like, it's 5, it's 3.30 a.m., but I haven't answered the phone for a reason. You know, I had my wife sleeping I have to sneak off and she think I'm cheating

on her or something because I'm leaving the room and start talking to phone I don't want everybody to wake up but everybody's texting me because they're trying to move forward

as I'm like but I'm in a whole another country and it's like I'm like I'm too I'm a day ahead of you and so it's like they just blown up

my damn phone how many NFL years do you have now 10 how many you have this would be. How many do you have? This would be my 11th. Damn. And you both won rings.

Yeah, we're the Super Bowl champion brothers. If you hadn't won a ring, would it have mattered to you from a sense of the career you had? Would it have bothered you like for the rest of your life? Or would it have just been an outcome of the whole thing? No, I think people, I mean, not for us really. I mean, I can't really talk because we won. I mean, we're not losers, so. Well, you must see some other dudes,

like Joe Thomas retired, who was like one of the best left tackles of his. And he got a job on Fox or something. His generation. Which I don't understand how he did that. He never won. Never won a playoff game. Yeah, but the guys.

He has no idea even what it feels like to be happy with football. They have the playoff action. Like, dude, how do you know? Like, he doesn't get to know. Right. Yeah, but, you know. That's true.

Like, Brandon Marshall is one of my closest friends in the NFL. He never been to the playoffs. Is that true? Yeah, and he has one of the most historic receiving careers ever. He's never been to a playoff game. It's in the top 40. What? Top 40?

Brandon Marshall is a top 10. Career's wacky. Numbers-wise? Yeah. He was in his 30s? There's a lot of good receivers. I'm saying, but he was 33? I'm 48.

I've seen a lot of good receivers. I'm saying, but who at 33 was doing what he was doing? A lot of people. Receivers at 33 was doing what he was doing. Can I introduce you to Jerry Rice? And T.O. were the only people. What about Tim Brown was doing stuff? No, Tim Brown Jerry Rice? And T.O. were the only people. What about Tim Brown

was doing stuff? No, Tim Brown was the best guy in a Super Bowl team. Tim Brown was doing what Brandon Marshall was doing when he was like 33, 34. Brandon Marshall was a freak. This is recency bias.

I'm not going to allow you guys to have recency bias. I'm definitely biased by what have you done. I live in a what have you done for me lately world. But you can't do that

when you're married though. You cannot do that. Uh-huh. I do something great every day for a, shit, by just waking up. Like, oh, look at your husband. What do you guys, what are you thinking about long-term? What do you guys, what kind of impact do you guys want to have beyond football? Because I know both of you think about this a lot.

Uh, you go first. Uh, well, for me, like. Not to get all serious for a second, but. I've been serious the whole time. Seems like a question. I was serious, a question it seems like a good question for me like for me i think if you think about legacy and what legacy is and i always felt like if i died and people like my daughter has to go to my funeral like yeah my daddy had a great stiff arm you know he wanted the superbowl by the time i'm done with life nobody should even remember that i won a superbowl

right right they should just be like oh yeah yeah, he won a Super Bowl too. That was pretty cool. And then he did those nine other things. Yeah. So like for me, I think the legacy for me is to build a company, my company, Imagination Agency that grows to the status of like a Disney, right? So for me, like where we come from, like there's not a lot of representation of characters of color and the things that are created under media that we consume.

There's not a lot of it. So like- I would say that's still the case it's still a case yeah so i'm as a creator i feel like so many people had their chance to tell those stories and they never did it right so i have my opportunity to tell them write those stories for kids to be able to grow up with superheroes that look like them or characters of color is not focused on their colors focus on how awesome they are and how cool they are and their adventures that they go on. Right. So I'm creating great adventures for kids to go on and live and grow and want to aspire to be like, whether it's magic, whether it's, you know, cause I think imagination is one of the biggest things that a kid can have. I agree. You know, so, and I think there's a lack of it being groomed for

them because they don't see themselves. If you don't see yourself, you never have to worry about taking your kid to a movie and hoping that there's somebody that looks like them, right? Right. You don't have to worry about if I go to a bookstore, I got to go through 100 books before I can find two books that looks like my daughter, right? You never have to experience the fact that people talk about Black Panther. Yeah, it's a big ass movie because we don't get any movies with characters of color or superhero like but Black

Panther is not a book that a kid that's five or six could read you know it's not a comic that you read at five or six so like I remember when I was a kid when Eddie Murphy joined SNL and there was like no black people on television at that point other than a couple shows and it was probably the most important person that was on TV for five years there's no black people on harry potter

but there's all types of yeah yeah but it's like check this out i knew nobody but that had such an impact on me i'm like hey that guy how fucked up is this though you watch frozen there's not one black person in arendelle and frozen there's no i mean. But there's a talking snowman. Huh? There's a talking snowman. There's a talking snowman, but there's not one black person in the entire place of Arendelle. I don't know where Arendelle is, but I'm pretty sure some brothers made it over there on a ship.

It's like Wyoming. It's probably Wyoming. It's just like all these stuff, even like background characters. If you think about a cartoon and you draw background characters, the majority of them are white characters. But that's mainly because the creators of the shows, or you create what you know. So they're like white creators. So there's not enough young black creators being groomed.

So part of my legacy is to groom young black creators to create their own stories. Because for so long, everyone else has been creating stories for them. Well, you know what's funny? Like the last couple of years, we've had some real successes. And it's like, oh, Black-ish. Oh, this is, maybe we should do more of these. It's like, yeah. But it's an anomaly.

There's a giant catch here. It's like Black Panther is now the second most successful movie after A Month of All Time. Oh, that's interesting. Maybe we should have a couple more. And I heard they're going to make six more av all time. Oh, that's interesting. Maybe we should have a couple more. And I heard they're going to make six more avatars. Oh, no. It'd take too long

to make an avatar movie. No, they already avatared to six. I was with... Jesus. What kind of impact do you want to have? I think for every...

Because you wrote a book which I thought was interesting which comes out in the beginning of next month. I think for, like my brother was saying, I think I was reading Muhammad Ali's like my brother was saying i think i was reading muhammad ali's book and he was saying that he when he won the olympic gold medal he

took that medal every single word he thought that medal made him um something great and it made him feel like he can get anywhere he wanted to be and be this medal was everything he slept with it and um and then when he finally went to his restaurant, he couldn't get into it. He said, I'm the world champion. Right. And they wouldn't let him in the restaurant. And then he said that that's when he realized that, you know, the Super Bowls, I mean, I'm saying the Super Bowls and all those things don't really matter. So our legacy as athletes has to be bigger, like my brother was saying.

Because at the end of the day, you can't take these medals. You can't take these championships. Those things aren't really tangible. And to have some kind of lasting impact is something i think that's super important for me is finding ways to give back into the community by like we're doing creative stuff giving people opportunities building bridges and like my brother said i think that's the most important thing is when you die you know the worst thing that happens when you see an espn and the only thing they ever say was he had 3,000 at-bats. Former defensive line of Michael Bennett.

Yeah, it's not like who he was as a person and what he contributed. And I think, how does your family feel about you? And I think that's what's important to me as the legacy I leave for my daughters and my wife. And then also what I do for the community in the place that I am. Because the craziest thing about it is people in Seattle wasn't even about when I left the city, it wasn't even about when I left the city, it wasn't even about me playing for the team. It was what I meant to the city as a man. And so to go to Philly and still feel that,

that impact and know that because you do what you do off the field, it's important to people. I think that's the true legacy of being able to transcend the sport. And I think that's what we strive for every single day. I spent the highlight of my career is I spent the day with Bill Russell in like 2012. We would see him in Mercer Island. Oh yeah, yeah.

Everybody loved Bill. Oh my God. We did a show with him and he doesn't do a lot of stuff. And he's also, he was 80 when we did it. And he was in good shape mentally, but his health's starting to slip, obviously. And we spent the day and we talked about all the stuff he did and he's just

had this amazing life. And we did this documentary, we put it out and people were like, wow, Bill Russell. And it was incredible to me because all they were, they knew about him were the 11 rings. And it was like, this guy, this guy and Jim Brown and Muhammad Ali were like the three most important athletes of the sixties. People still know Muhammad Ali. Like he's kind of, he's stayed, he's aged well. People know most of the stories, but like they don't know really anything that Russell did.

Yeah. And it is interesting what gets remembered and what's kind of falls to the wayside. That's what I think. Like Kaepernick, I think a lot of people, you know, at this point people, it's mixed reviews, but in the future, people are going to look at that and be like, dang, like that was fucked up. Like what he did and what he had to go through. And I think, you know, that's Muhammad Ali and all those guys, they all went through something at the time. People were like, you fucked up. You don't want

to go to Vietnam war. You know what I mean? Like those types of things at the time, people were like, they didn't understand. And I think eventually time catches up to the person's thoughts. And so we want to be able to have those transcendent thoughts. And when people look back understand and i think eventually time catches up to the person's thoughts and yeah i agree and so we want to be able to have those transcendent thoughts and when people look back and be like oh shit they were right you know i mean so it's like that's that's what you want to be like i i think i think for like you know so like say if i like my children's books or my inner like i do children's book i make interactive apps you know i. It's like, like all that stuff is stuff I learned how to do, you know, but it's all about like growth.

Like, you know, you want to grow, you want to grow from where you are. But the best thing about being able to grow is to water other people's plants too. So you don't want to just, just water your own, you know, plant all the time. Just have your own bucket of flora, but you want to pour into the lives of others. And for me, that way is by creating things that add more color to the world, more creativity to the world, and bring more imagination to the world, because that's why I feel like the key to all the world's problems, and it may sound naive as fuck, but it's imagination. Because without imagination, you cannot create solutions, right? Because you have to think of these ideas to be able to solve

these problems. And it all starts with imagination. So therefore, when the world lacks imagination, it lacks solutions. So that's why I like to work in creativity. That's kind of the company we're trying to build here. We're an idea-driven company. And we want everybody who works for us to feel like, if you have a good idea, bring it to us.

Let's try it. It's a socialist company? No, it's a creative company okay we want everybody to feel like if they have a good idea let's try to let's try to figure it out how do you build that environment though where people feel safe to throw their ideas out there right it's hard so that's like the cultivating environment where collaboration is key yeah it's really good it's like, it's collective genius, right? So what happens is, is like, if we're trying to make a slice of pizza, right? This is the company we try, like in my company, we try and make a slice of pizza. And the thing that I think this idea is a pepperoni pizza, right? My goal is to understand the slices of genius that each individual brings

to the table that makes this pizza the the most delicious piece that it could be. Yeah. I may only have one slice of genius today, but I may have the root of the idea. You may have two slices of genius. He may have a slice of sausage. Whoa. Tommy? He's not talking about me.

Tommy's got good ideas. Tommy, you got a slice of sausage over here? That idea may be great, but not for what we're trying to do. This pie right here. You know what I'm saying? So like recognizing slices of genius is like the really thing, the cool thing to do. Michael, when you said

the Kaepernick thing was mixed reviews, what does that mean? Because I feel like it was a success. I mean, I know it's pissed a lot of people off. It's a success.

I think it was a success. I think it was a good thing and I think it mattered. I mean, I think in the minority community it was definitely a great thing, but I think it was just mixed reviews amongst the others. You mean the people that got mad about standing for the minority community, it was definitely a great thing, but I think it was just mixed reviews amongst the others.

You mean the people that got mad about the standing for the flag on that stuff? Yeah, the whole thing was mixed. I think it was mixed reviews on that. But I think ultimately it brought a conversation and it was a national debate about something that was serious and was needed to have. Are you disappointed how the Players Council thing worked out? I thought it was shitty. I mean, I can't never be disappointed. Because a team like that had so much more potential than what was actually realized.

I was disappointed. I was rooting for it. I never disappointed because it's one of those things. It's not a loss. You know what I'm saying? It's not like we lost something. It was an opportunity to be able to learn and then be able to give back at a certain way. It might not be exactly what we wanted to give back, but it was a start for the younger people behind us to come in and realize that they have power. And so it's not about this seed that we're, the seed that, the ending part is about what we plant is for the younger people to come back up and demand what they want. And that generation will do that. I think everybody is getting younger.

They're a little more entitled and they're a little more pushing it. And that's what Kaepernick did. He empowered younger people. And so by empowering the younger people, because the NFL guys, most of them was cowards. You know what I mean? Most of them were scared and scared to see what would happen or do anything, but it was younger kids.

Well, they lost control of their league. No, I'm talking about the players. The players were scared. A lot of most of the players were scared. But there was the younger kids who were like not five years old, like taking a knee. They don't even know. They're just like, I'm not doing this.

Like, you know, that's five-year-old kid, like taking a knee. That's fucking powerful. Like, or girls, all the girls' teams are just walking out. Like, I'm not dealing with this anymore. No more sexual abuse. Like, you see like Me Too movements doing stuff like that. Yeah. Or after the national, the last shooting.

I was going to say the Parkland kids are the best example of that. Every shooting that happened before, like people would just talk. We talked. And then this year, kids, every kid walked out, kids walking out of school. We're not dealing with this. They're defiant. They're defiant. Yeah.

And that's when, that's when revolutions start or people have the opportunity to have those thought processes. And that's when people start getting scared because that's when revolutions start or people have the opportunity to have those thought processes. And that's when people start getting scared because that's when change happens. Because older people are just stuck in our ways. Like, you like eat McDonald's the way that it is. You like doing stuff the way it is. Younger people are like, I want to get my food right now, so I need to create an app to be able for the food to be delivered to me. You know what I mean?

So it's like younger people are people who are inspired to make the new ideas and create it. And I think the athletes are driving younger athletes to do more. But you guys have a separate, like you also, you have the social concerns, which is great and admirable and awesome. But you also have football player stuff too about the safety of the game. There's too many games, the Thursday night game, the fact that they're still talking about going to 18. I think it's just- How they treated concussions 10 years ago all that shit they don't care about safety they care about the dollar

right now but you guys have the power to change that too nah I don't really know you really feel powerless in that a lot of guys are powerless because they're guys that's going to do it regardless when you're 22 23 24 a concussion ain't

shit like if I'm going to get paid a million you don't really start thinking about that until you make it to 28 29 30 when you have kids and you think about your future but 24 25 that's all the fuck i want to do anyway so yeah i'll run into anything you want me to run into you and give me a check but the biggest issue i think with the whole thing is that the reason why the nba is so driven to be able to do everything that they're doing is because of LeBron James. It's because LeBron James is the best player in the world. He's the most profitable player in the world. And he speaks on every single thing.

He's the person that drives that car. And the NFL is not like that. The best players in the NFL aren't the ones who's talking about concussions. My brother said that. Take, for example, take Aaron Rodgers' situation. I love Aaron. Aaron Rodgers is a great player. But for a quarterback to come out and say that an organization has never done anything to a player that's been injured before, that is just a lie.

Every single team, every single player knows that an organization has before has done a player who's been injured bad before. So it's like, we do those things. Well, that's how they're paying the doctors. Well, that's what I'm saying. They work for the team. The doctors work for the team. Yeah. So, like, my whole thing is like this.

It's like, for me, it's like for you to say things like that is just irresponsible, first of all. Because everybody's situation. We might use the same dentist. Yeah. But that dentist is going to be like, oh, shit, he fucked my shit up. You're like, I love him, man. He always does a great job with me. I never have to worry about anything.

I'm missing teeth. Yeah. But, like, he fucked my shit up. Like, that's just what it is. But I think until like, like the guys that really like, you'll never see Peyton Manning speak up for behalf

of the black players that are his teammates, right? You'll never hear him say, you'll never hear Peyton say like, yeah, these guys are taking a knee. I think we should really get behind them and support them because their cause

that they're talking about is very important to them and this whole group of people. No, they'll just sit back and be like all right you know i yeah yeah i'm gonna go crack open a butt wiser you know like whatever it may be like there's not enough like there's not enough emphasis on it because everybody don't really realize that our problem is everybody's problem. Because until there's equality for him, there's no

equality for you. What would happen if all the players just said, fuck it, we're not doing Thursday Night Football anymore? If you schedule the games, we won't be playing. Like I said, LeBron James, when he said he wasn't going to play in that season,

when he said that, that was it. It was like, they need a new deal. We need a new deal. Yeah, let's get it. But that won't happen. The best players in the NFL won't do that

because everybody's down on the same court. Everybody doesn't go talk. Do you think it's because you have too many players? No. Because you just don't got enough people

with big nuts. And they're getting paid like $40 million. Like, I don't know. They don't understand. Like, I'm getting paid $40 million. I'll be like, wherever you need me to do,

coach, you know what I'm saying? Everybody got baby nuts. Baby nuts. Well, you'm getting paid $40 million. I'll be like, wherever you need me to do, coach. You know what I'm saying? Everybody got baby nuts. Baby nuts. Well, you played with a couple of those people. What people? People who make $40 million a year who say, do whatever I want. Hey, Bill, everybody got baby nuts. They don't got girl nuts.

A lot of guys at the top of the NFL are out there for themselves, right? Right. A lot of guys at the top of the NBA will try to make it better for other guys to come up and get a little bit more right that's the difference so like if you don't have so you're saying the superstars in the nba look out for everybody else more than the nfl super yes because yeah i agree and then if you think about like there's not too many guys at the top of the nfl that's reaching down to help somebody get up to the top either it's just like oh yeah we're the weather's nice up here i ain't got that they got billy ghosts down there they'll eat your ass but right there's no billy ghosts to make it to the

top you know saying it's like it's it's almost it's an elitism always to a certain extent that's the things that seem wrong just from and i never played in the nfl obviously but um the schedule and the thursday night games is crazy. The way they treated concussions, which they're getting better at now, and yet I'm watching games. The first time in my life where Gronk got hurt late in the Patriots season, I think it was a playoff game. It was a game before the Super Bowl. Yeah, it was a playoff game.

And it was the first time I was like, I hope they don't bring him back. My entire life I would have been like, where's Gronk? Just give him some smelling salts. So you're human now. Wait. No, I have more educated now. I know more about what's right and wrong about head injuries. Did you see when the quarterback for the Texans had a seizure on the field?

Yeah, and they put him back in. I was hurt this year, so I saw a bunch of shit, right? Right. He locked up and started shaking on the field. I'm watching. I'm like, oh, fuck. Take this guy to the hospital. This guy, y'all, fuck.

And then two plays later, he's back in the game playing quarterback. And then the coach had the nerves to say, yeah, I didn't really see what happened. You know, that's up to the medical staff. But it your quarterback right you know if your quarterback 12 coaches in this suite looking down but no your quarterback goes down those regardless of every other position on the football field like when when you get hurt at practice they just move the field like it's like cows um just hurting they just move to the 10 yards up and you get back here with the medical staff. The quarterback gets hurt. Everything stops for a minute.

Right. You know when your quarterback is hurt because that's just the way they treat them. So to say that I didn't see the quarterback go down or get hurt, I don't know what happened. It's just ridiculous. We have to wrap it up. This was fun though.

Did you guys have a good time? It was okay. I thought it was going to be a little more playful. Michael was going to be on his phone the whole time, but I actually felt like he was I had his attention most of the time you had my attention

I mean most people don't get my attention it costs money but since we're doing this for free I guess I gave you 50% so yep

but just to sign out so we'll do more stuff together yeah to sign out though make sure y'all go get Michael's new book yeah give a plug

do a book plug things that make white people uncomfortable it's coming out April 3rd I wrote the forward in it and the and the foreword is really, really. By the way, you can pre-order it, and it counts toward the first week's sales, which will be good for you. But I also have a new interactive children's book app coming out on the 27th as well.

They'll be able to download us also. I left some stuff on the table for the sequel to this podcast because you guys got to come back. Thank you very much, guys. Thanks, Bill. All right. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. My listeners can try it for free

at ziprecruiter.com slash BS. And one last thing, don't forget, ring around my B-show. Jacko and I are going to be on there probably tonight, probably like 10, 12 hours after you hear this. Jacko's 2018 Yankees season preview.

And I'm just going to make fun of him the entire time. And then the Recapables Billions launching Sunday night after the first episode of Billions. And ironically, our next guest on this podcast might be involved in Bill billions in some way. Yeah, I'll leave that as a little teaser for you. A little greeny tease. See you soon. I feel it's working On the wayside

I'm a person never I don't have