The Bill Simmons Podcast - Michael B. Jordan Plus Best NBA Rookies, Wizards Chaos, Tiger/Phil, and NFL Picks With Joe House | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 446)

Episode Date: November 22, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons calls up his buddy Joe House to talk struggling NBA teams, NBA rookies, the Tiger Woods-Phil Mickelson pay-per-view event, and NFL picks (3:20). Then Bill sits down with actor Michael B. Jordan to talk 'Black Panther,' his new film 'Creed II,' upcoming projects, and more (1:02:35). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the ringer podcast network brought to you as always by zip recruiter. You know, it's not smart overeating on Thanksgiving. Don't get sleepy for that third football game. Kyle, don't get sleepy on us tomorrow. It already happened,

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That's up this week. I am on Against All Odds with Cousin Sal. That podcast, the gambling podcast that we do every week, we talked about the incredible Chiefs-Rams Monday night football game, as well as the really important question, which person from the 1980s should Rocky have fought during one of the first five Rocky movies and didn't?

So we all did different answers. I was excited about mine. So we have that. And then what's the other new podcast we have? Oh, The Big Picture, Sean Fantasy's movie podcast, which has an interview with director Steve McQueen up this week. Fantasy was on my podcast the other day. We did a very long tribute to my friend, the dearly departed

William Goldman. We had Mike Lupka and Brian Koppelman and Sean Fennessy and Wesley Morris all on. And we also ran a couple of interviews that I did with Goldman in 2011 and 2014. So that is up there. I would dive into that if you liked him, movies, the Knicks, a whole bunch of things. Of course, the Knicks lost their first home game after he died. Or maybe it was the first. I can't remember. A nice tribute to him.

Did you see that? They put the flowers in his seat, and they put a jersey over his seat, and they had flowers coming out of it. It was nice. Oh, that's awesome. The Knicks finally doing something right. Coming up, we are going to call Joe House and do some Thanksgiving picks and talk about Tiger versus Phil and a couple other things.

And then Michael B. Jordan for, I think, the third time he's been on this podcast. Every time he comes on the podcast, he's like three times more famous than he was the last time. So he's coming up later. First, our friends from Pro Gym. On the line is Joe Haas. We're going to make some Thanksgiving and Week 12 picks. We're going to talk about Tiger versus Phil.

Might as well give you like 90 seconds on the Wiz. The Wizards season is in flames. It's terrible. What happened? It's a wreckage. They're hosing it down. What happened? What's going on?

I think we might have seen yet another glimmer of a possibility of a chance and a little bit of hope. We came back last night down 24 against the Clippers, and Wallenbiel made a bunch of shots in the fourth quarter and won. Here's the thing, though. Big picture. Let's put it in terms of thanksgiving bill simmons this is all the turkeys coming home to roost here here are the institutional problems that we're confronted with here you tell me bill simmons how many all-star games do you think otto is going to play in, in his NBA career? Are we counting China? Do they have all-star games in China? Maybe they do.

I don't know. I'm going to say zero for that. John Wall will never be in another all-star game. Bradley Beal might. I wouldn't say never. I wouldn't say never with John Wall if he ends up on a different team in a different situation

he still has talent he has all-star level talent but that's it the real problem with John Wall is never being in a position so he's not a natural born leader I think we can agree upon that what he needed was some fostering, some nurturing, some institutional stability.

And what he had instead was a rotating cast of coaches and players that did not put him in a position to develop any kind of leadership skills. And now we're at the moment where he wants to be the leader, but has no idea of how to do it effectively. And so it is a rudderless shift. Well, you left out his contract. He makes 19.2 million this year. There's a trade kicker. Next year, an extension kicks in 37.8, 40.8, 43.8, and then the 2022-23 season, he has a player option for $46.9 million. This all tells me that John Wall is going to be your

point guard for the next five years because nobody's trading for that contract. Nobody, not one person. It's not happening. The only team that I could see conceivably, let me throw this one at your house. Detroit calls you and says, we'll give you Reggie Jackson and Luke Kennard for John Wall. We're giving you 20 cents on the dollar. We're screwed anyway because we have this Blake Griffin contract that's going to cripple our salary cap for the next four years. We might as well really cripple it. We're going to take out a couple more vertebrae from the salary cap

and just completely cripple it and have John Wall and Blake Griffin together. But if you're the Pistons, you're a borderline playoff team anyway, and now you're just upgrading from Reggie Jackson to John Wall and hoping that John Wall, Blake Griffin, and Andre Drummond can figure it out. And if you're the Wizards, you're getting out of the John Wall contract. Now you can send Otto Porter to Dallas

for Wesley Matthews and another expiring. You can trade Bradley Beal or keep him. You're just blowing up your team and going for the lottery pick. Why wouldn't you do that? Well, if you move John Wall, then I don't think you really need to do much else. And at this point, that contract is the single biggest obstacle to any kind of progress, whether it's a restructuring on the fly or whether it is indeed taking the whole thing down.

That contract is the single most important hurdle. And so anything that you get back, you take anything in exchange for John Wall at this point. From my perspective, picks, players. It doesn't matter. Anything that represents relief from that, uh, uh, huge salary feeling that everybody's going to bump their head into. Um, well,

I, I, I don't know if you have feel in Porter, I think what we saw last year for 10 games, the everybody eats idea where the ball is good ball movement and Porter's getting enough touches to feel included, which translates into him playing harder on defense and Beal. You know,

the thing is you need one more like decent role player. You don't necessarily need another like superstar to be competitive in the East. And at this point, all we're hoping for is to be competitive. That's my, that's my ambition at this point, all we're hoping for is to be competitive. That's my ambition at this stage. Well, you're not going to win a title with what you have,

and you can't improve what you have. So I think the one thing we've learned about basketball the last 25 years is at that point, just keep however many players you could actually win a title with and then press the reset button. And you can't do anything cap-wise until 2020 anyway because you got to wait for the Mahimny contract to come off. Bradley Beal, he's already making like $25 million. So if you can even turn John Wall into Reggie Jackson for this year and then he's an expiring contract next year,

I would also get rid of Otto Porter just because, as you said, he'll never be an all-star. And if you can convince Dallas to bite on him because they don't have a first-round pick this year anyway and get an expiring back from them, now you have a chance to completely blow up your team by the summer of 2020 and just build around Beal. The other move that's sitting there, House, who says no to this?

Bradley Beal for CJ McCollum. Who says no? I think that's the best who says no. Is John Wall still on the team? It could be either. He could be on your team or not. I prefer to have Bradley Beal because he's younger

over John Wall or CJ McCollum over CJ McCollum I think they're the same age they're basically the same age and they make the same money so well CJ has the benefit of playing with Dame

now CJ is 27 oh Bradley Beal's 25. Yeah, Beal's younger. Because my thing is, if you can't get rid of Wall and you have to keep him, then I almost feel like you have to trade Beal. I don't want to trade Beal. I don't feel good about it.

If I'm trading Beal, I want to get somebody who's as good as him back. And now Portland's playing really well and they've figured out how to stagger the minutes. They actually take out Lillard and McCollum at the same time. They've turned the bench over to Evan Turner. It's been really smart what they did. I don't even know if they want to mess with what they have,

but I still think they have the same problem that they had in the playoffs last year where you have two undersized guards. It's just going to come back to haunt you at some point over the course of four playoff rounds. So the size of Beal might actually be good for them. I also think Bradley Beal is really good. I mean,

there's been trade rumors about, you know, Charlotte's going after him. Um, even, even my beloved Celtics, who knows might be sniffing. well,

I, somebody sent me, sent me Gordon Hayward and Terry Rozier for Bradley Beal. Oh, I would drive them both to the airport. That's not happening. The one I was thinking was Gordon Hayward and Jalen Brown for Bradley Beal

and Markeith Morris's expiring contract, which would then give us the craziest bench in the history of the league. We'd have both Morris brothers and Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier. Wow. Yeah. Bring those four guys in. Now you're talking.

That's an all time back alley bench. Yeah. But I, I just don't think they're going to trade Hayward. I think he's like a son to Brad Stevens. And he's kind of

submarine in the season as we speak because he's playing way too many minutes, doesn't get to the free throw line, can't shoot threes efficiently in any way, shape, or form,

and is just super tentative and they keep throwing him out there. My team has the too many guys problem that we've always talked about over the years on this podcast. When you have nine or 10 guys who all think they should be playing

and nobody's ever really happy, that's one of the problems. The other problem is they can't figure out who their best five-man lineup is, which is a little bit of the same problem the Wizards have where, like, I don't know who your best five is. At some point, you have to know who the best five-man lineup is, which is a little bit of the same problem the Wizards have, where I don't know who your best five is. At some point, you have to know who the best five is. And you look around at some of these other teams that are playing well, and you're going,

hmm, I don't understand. How are the Clippers playing well? And then you watch them, and you go, oh, they have lineups that actually make sense and complement each other. It's not rocket science, right? Well, except for that it is, and all sort of kidding and snarky stuff aside,

I think we have to be cognizant of the fact of two things. One, the schedule is different now. They started so much earlier, and I don't think that the teams, the players themselves, and the franchises have yet gotten the rhythm of starting a season in mid-October. And so I think what we've seen,

especially with some good teams, is some early experimentation where they're developing that identity. Like the Celtics don't have to have the answer for what their best rotation is right now. It doesn't really matter until Christmas, until honestly, Valentine's Day. There's a long run-up of time. And isn't it best for the Celtics to bring Hayward back in a manner that's going to make him comfortable? They've made too big an investment in him to not play him. They can't do the thing that's in their rational best basketball interest, which is just play the young kid who kicked ass in the playoffs last year. They have to integrate Kyrie, and they have to integrate Hayward.

And by extension, in some respects, the same thing is going on in Washington. You look at the lineup and you say, well, this team's been playing together for a handful of years. Why isn't it the case that they're ready to hit the ground running? And why aren't they playing hard already? Well, in addition to whatever conditioning things might be going on, John Wall doesn't look like he's in shape once again. But who knows? He wants to get bigger, and he's had knee surgery.

And I'm going to assume, I'm going to say that the glass is half full. He arrived bigger because he has on advice and counsel of his own physio trainer and medical support advising him to proceed that way with this season. You don't believe that.

You don't believe that. You don't believe that's why John Wall showed up bigger. But here's the thing. Their best lineup, they're still finding it. It's probably Tomas Saturansky playing forward. It's probably Kelly Oubre starting. You know, the integration of Dwight Howard hasn't yet happened.

Jeff Green, there's a million Jeff Green jokes out there, but you know what? They win when he plays well. That's one ingredient so far out of the six wins that they have. When Jeff Green plays well, they win. That means your season's over. I get what you're saying, but look, shouldn't we be a little more patient?

It's possible that this Washington team, this Washington team is on the same pace as the team two years ago that won 49 games. They started that season 6-12. I don't know if you remember that. You were doing Trey John Wall stuff two years ago. They figured it out. They got the right rotation, and they were off and running.

You know, here's what I think. I mean, it's fun to make up fake trades all day and you know I can do it and I love to do it. But,

Oh yeah. You don't want to trade, you don't want to make trades out of position of like complete weakness. And when people see what's happening with the Wizards

and Woj and Shams and all these dudes, Candice Buckner, they're tweeting or passing along information about John Walt saying F you to his coach at practice. And Markeith Morris is just dropping bombs in postgame locker rooms after wins and all the stuff that's happening. That's when the buzzards start circling, the trade buzzards. And they're trying to get Bradley Beal for Cody Zeller, Malik Monk, and Miles Bridges or whatever. You're starting to get those three-for-one offers that just send you right to the bottom five if you take it. I don't think they can trade Beal. I wouldn't trade him unless it was for somebody as good. Wall, I would think about if I could get rid of his contract and get a panic team, like,

you know, like Miami, Miami season, Miami has one of the most depressing rosters in the league. Now, if they were just like, we got to roll the dice with somebody. And all of a sudden you,

you get Goran Dragic and something else for a while. Like you would do it. But I think the point you make, how say I always get excited when you make a great point that I haven't thought of it. It tells me you still have it. But I think the point you make, I always get excited when you make a great point that I haven't thought of. It tells me you still have it in you. Thank you, buddy. I think the early season,

it does kind of screw it up a little bit. It does feel like there's a, and that's what makes it weird when a team like the Clippers gel so quickly. You know, and you're like, wow, this is cool. Whoa, these guys are all playing great together. I look at the Celtics team. NBA.com has a really good advanced stats,

five-player lineups, offensive rating, all that stuff. And you can separate them by all these different filters. A really good filter is who is the best five-man lineups that's actually getting a lot of minutes. So you can put in a filter basically that says, all right, every lineup over 110 minutes or something. And those are really the five-man lineups that play the most, that you're the most used to. So, like right now, one of the reasons Orlando is winning is because this lineup of DJ Augustine, Vucevic,

Evan Fournier, Aaron Gordon, and Awundu is really good. They're plus 14.7 with their net rating. And you're like, oh, that makes sense, because when I watch Orlando, it seems like they've stumbled into a couple lineups that really work.

So you go on down the line, like the Warriors have one of the best lineups, all that stuff. The Celtics lineup is the second worst lineup of any lineup that's played 100 minutes or more. Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, Jalen, Tatum. And that confirms what I'm watching because I watch that

and they start the game with that lineup and they're behind by 10 points six minutes in and there's no energy. It's just like my turn, your turn, his turn. People just standing around watching each other and it just doesn't feel right. So whether

the continuity and all the stuff that happens at the start of the season, whether that blossoms into something better, I hope it does. But I'm really concerned that those five guys together, for whatever reason, don't seem to play well. It's very low energy. And it makes me think like all five of those guys individually are kind of low energy, not like fist pump, Marcus Smart kind of guys. If you put five of those guys together, House, and they're all low energy, doesn't that mean collectively they're going to have low energy or am I crazy? Well, I like this concept of energy because I think it is exactly the right way for us to be

thinking about this moment of the season and where various teams are. The same thing is true of Washington. That's the single biggest complaint that folks have levied about this Washington team. Low enthusiasm, low energy, low competitive spirit. But again, what I would point to is these guys are playing a schedule that they're not accustomed to. Now's not the time for rah-rah energy. Unless, and I'm glad that you mentioned two of the teams that you mentioned, you are a franchise like Orlando.

You are a franchise like the LA Clippers. You are a franchise like the Sacramento Kings. You are a franchise like the New Jersey Nets. Now the Brooklyn Nets. I'll call them by the proper name. Those teams all saw the opportunity to arrive this season trying to kick ass and build an identity for themselves. And lo and behold, it has worked. The difference between those teams and your team and my team

is that those teams came in galvanized. They wanted to go try and establish something. They're franchises without a long track record of success, and they, good on them, went out and seized that opportunity and have, you know, at the early stage of the season, 16 games in, put the narrative a little bit. It is what is disappointing, especially for my team. You know, we had the opportunity with LeBron leaving the East

to assert ourselves and say, look, we belong in this upper echelon, and it's depressing to not have seen that level of enthusiasm out of my team, but I'm willing to be patient. Your team is a chemistry experiment, and now's not the time to be hitting any panic buttons. And the best lineups

that they've had have always had Hayward out of it and either Morris or smart or both of them in there. And that makes sense to me because those guys are a little more fire, but it's a work in progress. I think, you know, that the other problem is that Jalen Brown hasn't played well, which was pretty predictable and was the one thing I was really worried about this season because of all the love fest of Jason Tatum and how he was going to be the next guy and Kobe was working out with him.

And Jalen Brown was kind of the middle child shoved to the side. And his minutes have been up and down. He doesn't seem that happy. Rozier seems positively unhappy. And even though the cameras will turn on and he'll say everything's great, I think internally that is not the feeling. So it does feel like there's going to be some sort of a move, but I guess that the bummer for me is I don't think they're going to be the one seed.

And I think you'd need the one seed in the East with, you know, teams like Toronto, Milwaukee out there and potentially Philly too, with the Butler trade. Yeah. And you can't sleep on the Pacers either. I just, yeah. And you can't sleep on the Pacers either I just, yeah, and you can't sleep on the Pacers either

I just know how important home court was last year for them and it literally almost got them into the finals because they couldn't lose at home and to give that up, the clock's kind of ticking on that because I think it's going to need we're going to need something in the high 50s the West, the playoff

picture is all over the map and there's probably 12 teams that I could see making the The West, the playoff picture is all over the map. There's probably 12 teams that I could see making the playoffs, but there's only eight spots. Memphis, we talked about it when we did our over-under before this season. We just didn't see a world in which Gasol and Conley could stay healthy for 82 games, but they've been really good. The Clippers have been way better than people thought. I took the over for Memphis.

I mean, as long as Conley and I think you took the under, I took the over. I mean, that's a 45-win team if those guys are healthy. Well, I don't think either of us thought they were going to be the one seed in the West. No, you're right about that. I mean, I think that was a little bit of a surprise. They're still not going to be the one season in the West.

Yeah, I took the under of 34. You took the over. I had the over for the Clippers at 37, and you had the under. Well, I kind of stand by that. I guess Tobias Harris is their best player, but really, to the Clippers' credit, they have adopted the personality of their two dogs, their coach and Pat Beverly. You know, that's a real symbiosis.

They got a real dog mentality there. That's that identity. And then go play that hard. And it frees up Lou Williams to go do Lou Williams things in the fourth quarter. And, you know, all credit to the Clippers, but I still think that they're like, they're going to probably have more wins than 37 or 38 wins, but still their ceiling is like 44 wins, 45 wins. I actually think it's higher than that

because they're so competitive night after night after night just because of the guys they have on the team. I was talking about low energy guys in the Celtics. They have like a whole team of Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris type guys. You're right. And Gilgis Alexander, who went 10th, and we know this happens. We know at some point the spots in the top 11 or 12 don't matter as much as we want them to matter. They ended up getting one of the best guys in the draft at 10. And you compare him to what we're seeing with Colin Sexton in Cleveland,

who just seems like miles away from being a successful NBA player. I'm not writing him off, but so raw. And SGA just kind of knows where to go and what to do. I've been blown away by the rookies all over the map this year. Like Jaron Jackson, Wendell Carter. Aiton has a lot of potential, I think, even though Embiid was sticking it to him the other day. Luka looks like a first-team All-NBA guy someday.

He is offensively so advanced that I don't even fully know what the ceiling is for him. Trey Young, I think is going to be an unbelievable fantasy guy. I'm not positive. Yeah. I'm not positive how it's going to translate to the third round of the NBA playoffs, what he's doing, but I, he's definitely way, way further along right now than I thought he was going to be.

And there's been in miles bridges. I really liked on Charlotte too, that it's a really, really, really good class of rookies. I even like the guy the Celtics got who they can't play because they just have too many guys. But that Rob Williams, I think, has a chance to be really interesting. Mitchell Robinson's been really good on the Knicks.

I like what I've seen from Knox so far, even though he's limited minutes, but I just like his body, but I think it has a chance to be an all timer. Who's been your favorite rookie? I loved Wendell Carter when we saw him in summer league, but now the bulls are so bad. I can't really distinguish,

you know, his level of play. I, I'm happy to see Donchich deliver. Like you, you use the word advanced. He is just a mature basketball player. He's absolutely, he, he, he arrived as a professional. He's the only one of the rookie class that played professional basketball. It's clear that he's a professional and he's playing professional basketball in Dallas. And you know, Dallas

is interesting to watch when they're, when games are close in the fourth quarter. Yeah. To see him as a playmaker, I kind of dig that. I'm digging it so far. I'm shocked by how advanced he is in the last, like, three minutes of a game, like the kind of shots he's getting and the shots he's creating.

You know, and for the Atlanta trade, it's defensible on paper because they got Trae Young and they got a future pick from Dallas. My issue with it was always that I thought Luka had a chance to be a transcendent player potentially. And I just, I can't trade that. You can't give me enough assets to make me want to give that up. So in a weird way, like Atlanta probably, they really like Trae Young and he fits in with the city and he's fun to watch. He's padding his stats like we predicted in the preseason pods.

But on the flip side, they gave up somebody that could absolutely be the number one offensive player on a title team someday. I really think Luka's that good. I think he could be the decision. I think Luka can be the decision maker on a finals team. I really do. Totally agree with that.

The only thing that I would say is, and this is a great, you know, what if a great unknown, you put him in Atlanta and the mode that they're in right now, how does it help him with, with where he is with his advanced basketball IQ on offense? How is he arriving in that Atlanta situation, which is a loser situation?

How is that helping him? That's not the question for me. The irony is the two teams that passed him, and Aiton was defensible because it's so hard to get a center, and we saw him in person, and we were like, shit, that dude, that's a big effing dude. He's a specimen. On the flip side, after watching for 20 games,

like, man, you put Luka and Booker together and I really think that would have been something special down the road. You can just fill in the pieces from there, especially with some of the swing guys they got. But the big, big, big miss, and we knew this at the time, and it's even more glaring now is Sacramento not taking him because he's not a point guard.

You could have had him in Fox. He's almost like this swing man creator, and he's almost positionless. It's like, I don't want to get too carried away, but it's like when you watch soccer and you watch Messi, and it's like, what is he? Is he a midfielder? Is he forward? Like, you just don't know.

Doncic is like that for me. Like, he's just out there. He could be a two, three, or four. He could be a one. It doesn't matter. But if you put Fox, Buddy Heald, Doncic, Bijelica, whatever the hell you say his name. You know I have pronunciation dyslexia.

The guy they have from Minnesota. Man, I still regret missing out on him. Yeah, you missed out on him. And then Colley Stein. I actually think that could have been a playoff team. I really like that team. And Sacramento might end up being in the mid-30s anyway. But God, it was just taking Bagley over him is an all-timer.

It's so bad. It's really bad. The big unknown, the big thing that happened for them is the switch flipping for Fox. I put some money last year on Fox as the rookie of the year. The odds were good. It was like 20-1 or something like that. He wasn't in the conversation so i was like but i i saw this guy drop 40 in them in the biggest national televised games against the best competition i like fox he wasn't able he needed a transition year yeah he's been come

out firing and it immediately puts the the spotlight on on bagley and the fact that they can't figure out a way to integrate them. It's the most King story ever. And what a miss it was to not have Don. And we knew it. We knew it that night, that night it was a miss, but I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised that Fox is much better this year.

What surprised me is how good he's been. Like just that, like the ceiling of him now is really climbing. Like you're talking about like the best trade assets in the league. And he's this point guard now in a league that's full of point guards. And it's hard to really measure their value because there's so many of them. And he's this guy that is a little bit everything you'd want from a point guard.

But the thing that jumps out to me the most is the competitiveness and the leadership from him already. And the, just the spirit that he plays with. It's so infectious. I think SGA is a little bit like that on the Clippers too. He's not as outgoing as Foxes, but just the kind of guy you want as your lead guy compared to what you have

in Washington, where you have this kind of surly me first. I don't know what the hell's going on with John Wall, but those guys are both different than him, personality standpoint. But to put Donchich on with that, anyway, what I was saying was, I wasn't that surprised

by Fox. Buddy Heald turning into what he's turned into has surprised me. Because he's a genuine asset now. We were Buddy bandwagon fellas we were hoping he was going to have this career I mean it was so much fun to watch him his senior year

yeah he played all four years right yeah he sucked in the tournament game but we never wavered in our belief and then when they got him in the bookie trade I kind of liked it. I didn't like the trade, but I at least liked that they got him. But he's now turned into, I think part of it, he's just matured into a better scorer.

But also, they changed some of these rules with people coming off screens. And the defenders, the ability to kind of hold somebody as they're coming off a screen. And I think it's really unleashed him. Like, it just seems like him and Redick just seem like they're always open this season. You know, Redick's having like the best year of his career. And it just seems like he's open every possession. That's a whole other thing. I mean, we have so much basketball stuff to talk about.

I want to watch Philly. It's been a really, really, especially riveting season with a ton of storylines and more talent than the league knows how to do it, to know how to deal with. Philly. Just 16 games in. That's all I was going to say.

16 games in, we've only played. Yeah, Philly I need to watch a few more times. The Lakers, LeBron was on autopilot for three weeks, and now it feels like he's embraced the whole situation and he's unleashing himself. And that's a whole other thing. We have them. They need to figure out point guards.

That Rondo injury is bad for them. Well, it's putting a spotlight on whether Lonzo's ready or not. What do you think the answer is? The answer has been no, which I've been surprised by. I have to agree with you. They took him over. You look at that top five now.

Fultz won. God knows what's going on with him or whether he's even in the league in a year. Prayers up to Markel. Prayers up. It's not looking good. Lonzo, too. In the perfect up. It's not looking good. Lonzo two. Yeah. In the perfect situation right now,

not playing well. Tatum three. Josh Jackson four, who's, I've been working on my trade value list. He's not even in the top 60 right now. He's at your third string, small forward on a four win team. And then Fox at five.

What a bizarre top five that is. If you redid the draft, the one, two, and four picks would probably not be in the top five. So I want to talk football. Can't they be in the top 10? I want to talk football. Let's take a quick break.

Football season is well underway. Fantasy season is almost done, but not daily fantasy season. That's why I'm so excited to be playing on FanDuel all season. You get the excitement of researching and building your team each week, regardless of the outcome. FanDuel has never been more fun

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life and the new eighth gen Intel core processor. It's everything you love about the Surface Pro now, even more powerful. It is the new Surface Pro 6. Check it out. All right, we have some gambling stuff to get into house. Let's talk about Tiger and Phil first. A pay-per-view near and dear to your heart. You're going to blindly back all golfing stuff, and I'm not going to put you in a position of saying, do we need this? Why is this happening?

Why does anyone want to watch two rich guys try to just win more money against one another? All this stuff. What is the most appealing thing for you as somebody who loves golf for when this is on on Friday? Two things. The first thing is two icons. The two most important players in the game

over the last 25 years, finally in a head-to-head where we're going to hear them talk to each other. And, you know, at this stage, they've been at the game so long. And by the game, I mean, you know, how they're going to hold themselves out to the public. It's going to feel phony. But the thing that's exciting about it is it is clear at this stage of the game that Phil Mickelson has lost his mind. He's absolutely out of his mind. He looks crazy. He knew he was going to be on film on the 24-7

HBO special, the lead up to the match. And yet he still let himself be filmed on the plane with his hair all crazy, his eyes all crazy. I mean, so anything is possible with Phil. Phil interjects a level of uncertainty because he gives, we are at the point of his career where he clearly gives zero F. So we have zero F's Phil. Hold on. Zero F's Phil. He's starting to look like a Vegas lounge singer from like the mid-70s.

Like he's going to be on Merv Griffin singing with some 22-year-old with her cleavage out doing some hacky whatever. He really is starting to look like that. He's out of the 70s. I don't know what's going on with him. That, to me, makes it must-see TV. My single biggest regret. This thing is made for me, obviously.

I'm a golf homie. I love the old school skins games, the tradition of the four guys playing in California the Friday, Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend, that old traditional four-way skins game, Lee Trevino out there. Those matches were great.

They're a part of my youth. I enjoyed them. So having this arrive at this moment in this way is terrific. The thing that I regret is I just feel like the pay-per-view thing changed the dynamic. If it was just available on regular cable or even network television, then you can just get folks who are sitting around in their house on a Friday afternoon who want a small break from football to click over and just watch it. And the pay-per-view eliminates that. So I think that was a missed opportunity, but I'm also very excited to see these guys in Vegas

at this golf course, which a lot of folks haven't seen, but, um, and it's a cool golf course. I played it. It's just, you know, it's ridiculously expensive. But I think the both of you guys are going to enjoy the betting thing. It's really the first time in golf. And golf, the appeal is, as is apparent from my own podcast that you have been gracious enough to let me loose on with our good friends at Callaway golf, the shack. Betting and golf go hand in hand. I mean,

it's the whole point of playing the game. It's, it's, it's the, the, the glorious competition with your power, the $2 on the line and what it does to you in terms of, you know,

all the putting green and the, and the, uh, the stress of, of the shots and so forth. The money to these guys is irrelevant. I hope whoever wins immediately takes it, turns around and donates it

all to charity. I have a feeling that Phil won't do that, but I hope that he does. Can I bet on Phil not doing that? Are there lines on that? On Phil keeping all the money for himself? He might have some debt

that we don't know about out there. When I'm making the HBO documentary about the massive gambling scandal with Phil Mickelson, let's just say there's a world in which this documentary is being made seven years from now. Hypothetical.

What part of this golf special, where would that come in the documentaries? In the first third, the middle third, or the last third? I feel like it's the first third because it's a writhing coincidence with the change in the law and the American public is embracing betting our good pal, the cousin Sal,

is on television five days a week giving out gambling advice, Phil Simmons. Yeah, that is true. It's a glorious gambling moment. Well, you just, I gotta tell you, I gotta give you a compliment. You talked me into buying it because I want to spend four hours with I Give Zero Fucks

Phil Mickelson. I don't know what he's capable of. He might tell Tiger, like, I'll bet you $100,000 that I don't know what he's capable of. He might tell Tiger, I'll bet you $100,000 that I won't pull my balls out right now. Tiger will be like, done. And then Phil just pulls balls out. Who the fuck knows? That's right. He might do that.

He might have a topless caddy unprepared for anything. I might get it. I know I'm going to end up getting it. We don't want him topless. Yeah, don't want him to have to have him. Yeah, don't do that, Phil. Alright, so who's your prediction?

I'm going to go. I like the underdog here. This is a multi-year deal between Phil and Tiger. This is not a one-time only situation. I'd like the idea of creating some drama. Phil has all the incentive to go out there and really try hard. Part of what we saw in the run-up to this was him flying from his home

in San Diego to Vegas, that short flight, so he could go out there and start planning and do his strategy. And Tiger, as far as we know, he's not coming from Florida to Vegas. So I like Phil, I like the underdog. I like the odds he's getting. And I think for the purposes of the overall mission, it's better for Phil to win. So Phil's my pick. Do you think Phil's going to, on the first hole, as they're on the tee, be like, Hey Tiger,

congratulations on the nine year anniversary of the Escalade incident. And then just hit his drive? Just tried to get in his head? I mean, that would make it real. That's what I would do. That's the kind of thing. That's what, you know, scumbag friends do to each other.

That would make it authentic. What was the name of that diner? I think there's a 0% possibility of that. What was the name of the diner that Tiger had, the waitress At the diner Phil could wear a golf shirt Applebee's? No it was like some Florida diner

But Phil could wear the shirt from the diner Like just for all 18 holes Trying to get Tiger's head He could have a giant Escalade logo On his bag He could have fire hydrant head covers. Blackberry. He could have blackberry. Something.

Blackberry. Yeah. Right now I'm Googling Tiger Diner Waitress. Oh, Perkins. Perkins Diner. Perkins Diner. Perkins. There we go. He could be at Warshaw up in a Perkins shirt.

How good would that be where can I get like a hundred to one odds on on Phil pulling a Bobby Riggs and going to like twenty different casinos and betting against himself

because he can make more money that way is that are those odds available we should we should call the Westgate who's our pal put him on alert

is Phil setting proxies to bet against himself alright I'm getting this I like zero F's Phil alright football I'm on a hot streak house ever since we brought the picks back three weeks ago with 3-0 last week I'm up 4.8 million dollars yeah I was so happy

I listened to last week's podcast by the way the Conan O'Brien interview was terrific I know that people will give me a hard time when I come on and give you compliments but I couldn't have enjoyed it more it was mainly for Conan let's be honest but you won 3 million

dollars last week with your picks yeah I'm going to win more this week here are my picks I had to get a Thanksgiving game on there I think everything is broken right for the Cowboys this week. Here are my picks. I had to get a Thanksgiving game on there. I think everything is broken right for the Cowboys. I'm not the first person who's made that point, but this Redskins thing, losing

their QB. I'm very familiar with Colt McCoy's work. I'm not a huge fan. I like that it's in Dallas. I like the way Zeke Elliott's running. He's just kind of in Dallas. I like the way Zeke Elliott's running. Um, he's, he's just kind of coming together. I think Dallas is a week or two away from setting their fans up for something horrible.

Like they, you know, you win this week, the eat, the giants beat the Eagles somehow. And the Redskins, they lost their QB. Everything's just that. oh, here we go.

The Cowboys are going to make the playoffs. And then they'll just lose some terrible game a week later and just kick everybody in the balls. So this is the setup week for that. Everything coming up roses. I think it's so hard to lose your QB on a Sunday and then have to play a Thursday game. The guy's barely going to have reps.

And I want to put them in a tease. I did not love the teaser candidates. So I'm going to have to do a rarity, a seven-point tease, which is minus. Oh, you have to pay a little extra. Pay a little extra, a little minus 130. So I'm risking $1.3 million to win a million dollars teasing the Cowboys seven and a half

with the Patriots minus nine and a half against the jets of New York. All they have to do is win by a field goal. All the Cowboys have to do is win. And I went in another million dollars house. Who, who screws me up? I like that one.

Who screws me up? I'll join you with that. Will you, will you loan me a million dollars so I can join you? Well, I'm up 4.8 million dollars. I, I, I'm happy to loan you Fed. Well, I'm up $4.8 million. I'm happy to loan

you some. Okay, yeah. The Alex Smith thing, I don't want to speak ill of somebody who had one of the worst broken leg football injuries in a while, but you weren't that happy with how year one of the Alex Smith season was going. You didn't have a lot of high hopes for the Redskins

season even before that happened, right? I mean, he was not, let's just put it this way. He was sold to us here in Washington as a game manager. And I had watched him in Kansas City with superior offensive talent, especially last season. He was able to get the ball down the field last season. They were a team that was in every game that they played. They were not like just ever at risk of being blown out. He arrived here, and I don't know what happened.

It must be the water up here. If the Redskins were ever behind in a second half, there was a 0% chance they would come back and win the game. Now, there is this crazy stat through nine games, there were no lead changes in any game involving the Washington professional football team, which hadn't happened since, you know, whatever. But part of that has to do with the inferior talent of Alex Smith.

And on the game manager idea, he ran out of bounds against Dallas at home when the game-clinching drive, the professional football team here in Washington possessed the ball and had an opportunity to win, and he ran out of bounds and gave Dallas like an extra 45 seconds. And God bless Dallas.

They self-combusted and missed a field goal from a distance that they shouldn't have. But I couldn't believe it. I felt like I was back watching Rex Grossman again or Collins or somebody from my old Jason Campbell. Any of the old Washington bad quarterbacks. Well, I'm sorry, Haas. I'm sorry this whole thing happened to you. I know you're excited. The good news is Kirk Cousins, I think you missed out on that

contract. Either way, you were screwed because it's not like Kirk Cousins was taking you anywhere anyway. The move would have been to just get Case Keenum for half price. Alright, my second pick. So there were some games I liked. I just wanted to rip through them really quickly. You know, the Giants are getting six in Philly. Yeah.

I'm not taking them because the days in my life of having money on the Giants and watching Eli throw picks and just single handedly drain the money from my wallet. I'm just done. I'm past that. I'm like, you know, you hear people who used to have like a drinking problem or a cocaine problem or whatever.

And they're just like, I'm done that time of my life's over. That's how I feel about betting on Eli. I will never, ever be in that situation again. I will never have money on him ever. As long as he's an NFL player. But that plus six is pretty enticing. I'm staying away. I really like how the Colts are playing.

And this line against Miami has been super mysterious all week. They were favored by nine for the last couple days. But Miami was only plus 330 to win the game. And I thought that was suspicious because the Colts are playing much better than Miami. They've been moving the ball offensively against everybody.

Tannehill's coming back this week. I don't think he's very good. And I just think they're better. But it seems like there's some feeling out there that Miami can win this game. And there's something about it. There's a lot of people on the Colts bandwagon right now. There's something about this game I just don't trust.

And I'm going to stay away. So that's two I'm staring at, and I just can't pull the trigger. The third one is, I think Houston is a house of cards. I don't get it. I don't understand how they've won this many games in a row. I don't think they're that good. I think they've gotten super lucky in a couple of these games.

And if it's just one of those seasons where they go 11-5 and make the playoffs and we can't wait to bet against them, so be it. They're playing Tennessee this week. Tennessee looked great against the Pats two weeks ago. They got their asses kicked by the Colts last week, partly because their quarterback got hurt during the game, but they also couldn't stop the Colts. If I

knew I was getting a healthy Mariota for four quarters, I would be all over Tennessee in this game because I actually think they're better than Houston. But you're not going to allow me to bet on Blaine Gabbert, right? No, don't you dare do that. Or injured Marcus Mariota? I commend you.

Well, I mean, you'll have the opportunity to know come Sunday what kind of shape Mariota's in. Five and a half is crazy. We're in agreement about that. If that line is, gets, gets down to, uh, you know, I, well, there's, I would only take Houston if they were favored by, by two and a half or something, if they became a pick them kind of situation.

I think Tennessee is the better team. I'm with you. Houston's winning streak is, is, you know, right to be ended by this divisional foe of theirs, and Tennessee is playing for their playoff lives. They have to have Mariota, though, be competitive. I'm glad you're staying away from the Colts game. Two things going on there. First of all, coming off a blowout win,

and Miami coming in off a bye. That's a bad historical trend, that combination. So you're right. That Indy by more than a touchdown is just too many points on, on a, you know, value basis is the way that I'll put it.

So I'm glad you're staying away from that. And, and I think it's right to just never for the rest of your life, bet on anything having to do with Eli Manning. I think you're doing the right thing. Thank you. Last but not least, I've stared long and hard at this Bears-Lions game.

Trubisky is hurt, doubtful. By the time you listen to this podcast or it's up, the game will have been about to start, we'll know for sure. That line moved from three and a half to two and a half. So I could have Chase Daniel in the Bears defense against this crappy Lions team

and Matt Patricia. The problem is they played Sunday night and God, I want to take them because I think the defense can win it by itself. But I'm staying away. I don't like the whole Roger Goodell. I mean, just classic, right?

They flex the game to Sunday night. Now they have to play at 1230 a.m. in Detroit. It's ludicrous. The whole thing's ludicrous. I talked about this last week, but they can give a shit about the players and it's embarrassing and they can go F themselves.

All right, so here's the other game I'm taking. Go. Yeah, your indign's the other game I'm taking. Go. Yeah, your indignation was well played. Thank you. I mean, it should be an opportunity for the union to file a grievance over that. Yeah. Hell yeah.

Here's my second pick. I think Seattle's better than Carolina. They're in Carolina. They're laying three and a half. It seems like a classic, oh, Carolina should be seven and three if they get the two point they're in. All that stuff. It's actually a must-win game

for Seattle. If they lose, they have six losses. That might be too many. They've had some time to think about it. I like the matchup of Cam and Riverboat Ron versus Russ and the Pete Carroll and that whole

infrastructure. It feels like special teams, like the punter getting involved and making some big plays and Russell Wilson doing stuff. It feels like a game that's going to be close with eight minutes to go with Russell Wilson with a chance to win. And I think they can either win the game or it's a three-point game. I love getting the extra half point. And I think they

need the game. They have to basically win this game to make the playoffs. Carolina needs the game, but they don't really need the game. And they're probably feeling good about it, but I just wasn't impressed by them last week because I don't think Detroit's that good. I think Detroit's one of like the eight or nine worst teams in the league. And Carolina just couldn't beat them. They had 13 points for like 55 minutes of the game.

Seems like there's some, some, some issues with them. And I like getting the three and a half. So that's going to be my other pick house. I'm taking Seattle plus three and a half. What do you think of that one? The half point makes all the difference. I think you are absolutely right that these two teams are very, very even.

And Seattle, uh, especially has been on a, on an impressive run. They had every chance in the world to beat the Rams. They went out. They came right back and bounced back and really handled Green Bay. I mean, it was an impressive showing, I thought.

I think that they're coming together at the right time. And Carolina, they had to win that game. They had to win that Detroit game. It does affect their playoff standing and their playoff chances, I think. I mean, it's Carolina, the Vikings, and Seattle that are all going to be duking it out for that sixth spot, right? Yeah, but Carolina's 6-4. I mean, all of these games are must-win at this point, but it's not really a must-win.

Seattle loses. They're in major trouble. It's interesting. On DVOA, I don't like DVOA the first few weeks, but I think right around now, week 11, week 12, week 13, you can actually learn some stuff from DVOA. Seattle is ranked 12th. Carolina's ranked 15th.

I'm not surprised at all by that. I'm not surprised by that either because that confirms what I've been watching with my eyes. And actually, if you look at the top 10 now in DVOA, KC, Rams, Bears, Saints, Chargers, Steelers, Broncos, Packers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts are 11th, Seattle's 12th. I'm not surprised by any of those except for Denver. Denver being seventh is a little strange. They're 11th in offense, they're fourth in defense, 26th in special team. But then you think about it, it's like, yeah, Denver's,

they had one awful game where they got killed by the Jets. And other than that, they've been pretty good. Like, you know, they played the Chiefs. They almost beat them. They've had some good games. They had a good win last week. And, you know, that was the other game I was looking at, how it's them versus the Steelers.

If you want to talk me into that, make your case. Denver is home. Steelers, second straight road game. Pulled one out of their ass last week. And they're laying three in... Oh, is that three or did that line go down? They're laying three in Denver, Pittsburgh is. They've won six straight.

I can't do it. Yeah. I thought about the altitude, the two straight road games. They've kind of clinched stuff. It seems they're overdue to have that shit game on the road, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it either.

I don't like going against Pittsburgh. I want to see them lose first. So those are my two picks. Yeah, that win against Jacksonville, it just felt like Pittsburgh had two touchdowns in them in the fourth quarter. I just can't go against Pittsburgh anymore.

And I don't love the Patriots, but they're not going to lose to the Jets. So I got $1.3 million to win a million on the Pats teased at nine and a half teased with the Cowboys minus seven and a half. And then I have 1.1 to win a million on the Seahawks plus three and a half. I'm up 4.8 million. Any ones you want to throw in there?

I had Breeze for MVP last week at plus 175. I told everybody if they win and Casey loses, he's going to be the favorite. Well, I was right. He is minus 350 right now to win the MVP. So if you'd listen to me, you would have made more money than that. That was the single.

I listened to that. I was on the train coming back from New York. I sat with my phone and said, I need to send in a text right now and get that action on Drew Brees Saturday morning. And I didn't do it. And I'm just telling you, I'm going to regret it all the way up until they walk out and give him that

Drake great big MVP trophy. He is going to win the MVP this year. The, the, the only thing that could flip it is if they're 13-point favorites against Atlanta this week, and if they somehow blow that one. There's a chance this is a

effed-up week. There's a lot of high lines. There's a lot of suspicious lines. You have the Ravens' double-digit favorites at home against the Raiders, and meanwhile they have Lamar Jackson at QB. You have the Chargers favored by 12 and a half over Arizona. I'm not even sure the chargers are good.

You have the Falcons getting 13 in a backs to the wall. Their season's over. If they lose going against the division rival, even the jets, but the patch shouldn't really be favored by nine and a half over anybody. There's just a lot of red flags house. I just, I just want to flag this entire week and say, be ready for weird shit to happen.

So, there you go. Well, I don't want to be single-handedly responsible for tilting the football fortunes of the gambling public out there. I'm taking every underdog this week. I'm just announcing it right now. I think all these lines are overinflated, overreaction. I think all the value is in the dogs. I'm taking all dogs

all week long. You might be a beware of the dogs week. All right, House, happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, buddy. Always a pleasure. Eat up all the turkey and send me a picture. Oh, wait a second. Before we go, I wanted to mention we made my Aunt

Jen's sweet potato casserole with the pecans on top, which I think is my number one Thanksgiving anything. It's my single favorite. It's got the brown sugar on the top with the pecans and the sweet potato. It's just like, it's outrageous. I might gain like seven pounds this week, house. You got a belly store set.

We'll take a picture, put it on the gram. We'll put it up on the House of Carbs. Let the hungry homies in on this one. Yeah. I also, I think I want to come on. I'm inviting myself on House of Carbs next month to do 2018 Hungry Homie Food Trends. So I have some thoughts on this. I love it.

I have some takes, some hot I love it. I have some takes. Some hot takes. You're always welcome. All right. Happy Thanksgiving, house. Happy Thanksgiving, Bill Simmons. All right, we're going to get to Michael B. Jordan in one second.

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All right. I haven't seen this dude in a while. I had a lot of stock on you early. Yes, you did. And that stock is like, what's doing really well now? Netflix? I netflix went down whatever's going up lately i had that stock i have the last time i saw you black panther was about to come out and we all thought that it was going to be a really big movie and then it became one of the biggest movies ever and now you're

famous wherever you go yeah that things definitely changed after a Marvel film, especially of that size and that magnitude. It just catapulted me into a space that I'm still adjusting to. I've been working since I was 12 years old, the whole thing. I've been known for little things. Oh, you look familiar. Did we go to school together? Oh, man, who's that guy?

I think he looks familiar. We got a lot of Wallace, too. A lot you look familiar. Did we go to school together? Oh, man. Who's that guy? I think he looks familiar. We got a lot of Wallace, too. A lot of Willis Wallace. All the time. Walking down the street. You're alive. I'm here. I'm breathing.

And then now it's like Wallace is all grown up and, you know, every place that I go now, it's, you know, people have a, they take ownership of me, you know,

so it's an aggressive love. That movie was not only successful, but people fucking loved it. I mean, it really became one of those movies. I mean, it's impactful, you know? It hits on all the levels, you know? It supersedes a superhero, and I'm doing air quotes, superhero film.

You know, whenever you do a movie with Ryan Coogler, you know, when he's, you know, co-writing, directing, it's going to say something. It's going to mean something. It's going to be grounded. It's going to be about character and story. And it just so happens to be in the Marvel Universe. Blacks, women, a lot of representation in that movie of people that were not in superhero movies. 1,000%.

It really stood out, and it was so uniquely done. It was so cool. I'm actually really interested to see how it plays out with the Oscars, as I know you are too, because it feels like it came out 17 years ago. It's been on HBO. It's been on pay-per-view. No, it's not on HBO yet. It's on one of the cable.

It's on Netflix. Or Netflix, whatever. Yeah, it's on one of those. It's on Netflix. But yeah, it just feels like it came out a while ago, and I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for the Oscars. I'm not an expert in that department whatsoever, but it's one of those things where it does feel like it's been out for a really long time

because of the impact, because it's something that we've been talking about since it came out, since we actually started making it, the film, and the impact that it's made on so many people around the world, not just blacks, not just women, just from all ethnicities. Little kids. Kids, for sure, man. Kids multiple times. My son is like seven, eight times in, I think.

Really? Yeah. That's incredible. Like this Halloween, where did he go? It's super rewatchable. Yeah, it is. It's like one of those movies that every time that it's on, you want to sit down and watch it.

You'll pick up something different in it. Well, when I saw you, we had dinner like a year year ago and you had just finished filming it and you're kind of messed up from it because that character you played you went to a dark place for it and you're having trouble coming out of it i don't know if you've talked about that no not really i haven't talked that much about it yeah i've been picking and choosing you were too far into it and you couldn't kind of pull yourself back yeah it was one of those things that i didn't know what was going on it's like i never i never went i never was in a character that for that long of a period of time and and was that i guess that dark that lonely that painful so coming out of it you know i thought

oh yeah business as usual i just go go back home, cut my hair off, and everything will be back to normal. But I found myself kind of in the routine of being isolated and went out of my way to make sure I was by myself and didn't say too much, more than the usual. You were like that on the set? No, afterwards. Oh, gotcha.

No, on the set, for sure. On the set, when I was working, it was definitely like my own little crew that I had with me, you know, my barber assistant, you know, and that was really it. And then, but once I got finished rapping the movie, you know, it took me some time to talk through my, you know, how I was feeling and why I was feeling so sad and like, you know, depressed. Did you have to see somebody? I talked to a therapist. Yeah.

Yeah, a few times. How long did it take to get out of it? About a month. Yeah. About a month of just kind of like getting back to just doing regular things, being around my friends and family, like really being around and being, being present, not just being in the room, but being present and engaging and, and just talking things out that I've never really kind of talked through.

So it was, it was healthy. Did you, was there any other way to play that character without getting lost in that stuff? I didn't, I didn't know. Yeah.

There was no blueprint. You know, I was just doing what I felt was right. You know, like whatever got me emotionally to the place I needed to be. That's what I did. You should have talked to like 20 actors who had played villains to try to get tips. That's actually a good idea.

That would have been like, hey man, Denzel, sorry to bother you. I was wondering when you did training day. How did you get into- How did you step out of that? I guess a certain part of me wanted to find out what my own process was. Yeah. You know, I kind of wanted to see what I was made of, you know, in a sense of like what it, you know, how far I can go,

what it would take to do my version of that. And yeah, I found out. In retrospect, would it just been easier to play the other part? No. No, I think, I mean, I don't know. I don't know about what's easier or not. That would have been the easier career move for you, right?

To play like another good guy who's the hero in the movie. Yeah, I guess maybe. It's not interesting to me though. Yeah. I think I'll have opportunities to play that guy, you know, the hero, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, the protagonist. For me, this one was a challenge, and I wanted to challenge myself and take a risk and play somebody I haven't played before and see if I could pull it off. Like, I know performances that I really connect with that are villains, you know, or the bad guy or antagonist in a film. And I'm like, man, those are things that I really connect with that are villains, you know, or the bad guy or antagonist in a film.

And I'm like, man, those are things that I really connect with. How can I have my version of that? And I kind of took it as that kind of challenge. This is my opportunity to do it. Maybe don't make another movie with fight scenes for a while. You're testing it. You're going to get hurt soon. One of these days.

One of these days you're just going to, like, tear a rotator cuff or something. It's crazy. I had a lot of fluid in my knee filming Creed 2. Did you really? I had to get a drink. That don't hurt your basketball career. You have some.

My basketball career is kind of over, man. No, you have a basketball movie to make. Get out of here. I mean, it's kind of over. It's kind of done, man. It's become a hobby. No, you have a basketball movie. It's become a hobby.

I haven't played ball in I don't know how long. How old are you now? Like 31? I'm 31. You're in the LeBron high school class you're getting high you made 200 million dollars but you're not happy

and you're just playing it out there's some sports movie you can make like a sports movie slash you meet a girl in it I don't know I don't think I'm past that you're past sports movies? how dare you can I just be like the brother that didn't I don't know I don't think I'm past that I think You're past sports movies? No no no How dare you?

No no no Am I So can I just be like the brother That didn't That used to be the good You know ball player And now he's just like Around

You blow out your knee Something crazy I'd rather do that guy So you do like three scenes Just three Come in Do my cameo And be the

You know the The emotional support for I want to put somebody else on Give somebody else an opportunity Somebody young and hungry that's super athletic that can go but hasn't had that role yet that really show what he can do. I'm down for producing that for that actor

and I'll just take it back. And then you have your three scenes. We'll write you the one three-page scene, the big monologue. The big monologue. When I blew out my knee, my whole world had ended. My whole world had ended. My whole world had ended. I thought I had it all.

Yeah. And then I turned out, I had nothing. Nobody. Not even you or mom or nobody. Something like that, yeah. But now you're doing it for all of us. It's not just you. Yeah, you got to do that.

It'll be easy. See? Produce it. Done. We pretty much just wrote. Netflix just bought it right now. They're caught. They're on the other line right now.

It's right there. I think, though, so the first time you came came on it was right after fruitvale came out and then the second time was creed that was in my house yep and then this time is post uh post black panther black panther and creed too but we always i think i'm one of those pods i always used to joke about the movies that you had to make next as far as like and one And one of them, yeah, just the IMDB career path. Yeah, well, there's two. Well, there's two. So actually, I checked off two of the things you said.

I think one of them- I said lawyer. Said lawyer. So you did a lawyer movie. Yeah, Bryan Stevenson. It's called Just Mercy. It's a story about Bryan Stevenson. I'm playing a defense attorney who set up his organization

called the Equal Justice Initiative. Right. And pretty much who gets wrongly convicted prisoners off of death row that are sentenced to life. And the movie is based around, you know, two or three of his clients that he got off of death row set in the late 80s, early 90s. And Jamie Foxx plays Walter McMillan, who's the- Jamie Foxx.

He's incredible, I like this and Brie Larson is also a partner of Bryan Stevenson who helped establish the EJI and his legacy down in the south. Brie Larson like a sexual tension colleague but it's never consummated? What's that part of it?

Just a colleague. Just a whiff of sexual tension? I think there's like no whiffs No whiffs at all. There's like no whiffs. There's like, it's like literally an honest, like, if you, once people understand who Bryan Stevenson is and kind of like, you know, what he represents and what he stands for in his life, he is, it's hard to say a perfect person, but he is a really good person. Right. I'm not saying that he can't have any, you know, physicality or anything like that, but

the movie is really based around his work and his life. And he dedicated a lot of his life to his work and his passion. Do you have a scene where you walk over right to the jury? You're like two feet away from the jury and you really get it? I don't know. A little Oscar jury scene? The interesting thing about this movie is that the case takes place after the trial. Oh.

So it's more or less Brian trying to fight for a retrial rather than the courtroom, I think, antics of like the, you know, cross-examining the witness and badgering, you know, and like, you know, the whole performance. So a lot of that is not in this movie, but it's a different, it's a different version of that, which is interesting. It's an interesting twist. It gives it an interesting tone. This sounds good. I think it's going to be, I'm in on this. Yeah. I was watching A Time to Kill on cable at like two in the morning a couple weeks ago.

Yep. And that has a couple great courtroom scenes in it. Yes. And it's the one when they put Sam Jackson on the stand. And it's like, yes, they deserve to die. I hope they burn in hell.

But I miss courtroom movies. I wish there were more of them. I just feel like they should make one every year. There should be like a good one every year that comes out. And it could just be

in a courtroom. And there's, you know, there's not like there's a shortage of cases that's going on that we could actually kind of like, you know, tie into.

So yeah, I think that's a good idea. So you crossed that one off. The other one you of like, you know, tie into. So yeah, I think that's a good idea. So you crossed that one off. The other one you said was, you said an alien movie. Yeah, but. Is that happening?

No, no, no. But what I'm saying is, I can say alien, but it was like a superhero. So maybe this Black Panther kind of fit in a sci-fi, not really box. Is that kind of the box? I never said comic book.

You out-thought me on that one. I guess that comic book's better than the Alien movie. It is. But you still can do the Alien movie. I can still do the Alien film. You can do Armageddon remake, or you do Men in Black remake. You can do your own version of one of those. I think my own version.

I think the remake thing is cool if the project is, if it makes sense to quote unquote reboot. But I'm really interested in like original IP and original stories to kind of, you know, to, to not have to be compared to, to, you know,

an original. Don't, don't lose Kugler. No, Kugler ain't going nowhere. We got each other for life. It's over. Yeah.

Don't let him do stuff without you. I mean, I know he has to go do one, one or two stray projects, but you can't go like five years without him. No, we haven't. That's your Scorsese. You got to hold on to that one.

We got a plan. We're definitely going to be working together for a long time. That was like one of the all-time three for threes anyone's ever put up. That's crazy, right? It's really crazy. It's like a prodigy. And they progressed. Yeah.

The budget got bigger and we got more of a reach, you know? Yeah, fruitvale and black panther what was that it was like four years apart fruitville was 2012 13 12 yeah you're right so and then so five years five years apart yep god and it's such a hard movie to make i always watch those movies i'm like how does anybody direct this yeah yeah no it's tough i mean but obviously you know you have the support system of marvel you know and i think you know if you're you know a filmmaker that has you know vision you know and you know what kind of movie you want to make you know they're the biggest um asset you know um all the marvel and disney to really help you execute you know and and it's uh just being

next to ryan every step of the way of that one just to see the collaboration process between the studio and Ryan and the actors was special. It was special. So do you worry about him at all? Because sometimes when somebody has that much success three times in a row, they get a little loopy in Hollywood. They start doing crazy projects. They think they can do anything. He seems pretty grounded, though. It's one man I'm not worried about.

Yeah. Yeah. And we always have each other to kind of lean on if we ever get to the point where we're stressed out. Or just, you know, you want to talk and vent on some real shit, not just industry stuff. You know, I'm talking about family. I'm talking about personal things. Just things that, you know, things that really, really, really, really, really matter at the end of the day. So I'm never worried about him.

He's surrounded by so many strong people and grounded people that they always hold each other accountable. And that's something that if you know Ryan Coogler, you're proud to know him because he's unapologetically who he is in any environment. And it's like you got to respect it. Is he all right with all the teams leaving Oakland oh he's fine he has the Warriors I give him shit about that all the time

he's gonna follow them to San Francisco he's gonna follow them wherever it is it's in the Bay Area for sure obviously he's not too happy because they're leaving

like Oakland quote unquote but he's still like a diehard Warriors fan it's weird times for Oakland because they're losing all their sports teams but yet the rents

are like quadrupling I mean I don't understand what's going on there. Hey, man, tech industry, man. They're buying up everything up there. Property value is going through the roof. We did. So what were the other ones we talked about?

You have to do a cop movie soon. Cop movie. We definitely talked about the cop film. And you have to do Divorce Dad. Divorce Dad. Rom-com. Or maybe Widow Dad. One or the other.

I'll definitely do a rom-com at some point, but I wanted to do it under my terms. I wanted the movie to be a reflection of my dark, sarcastic sense of humor. You need your boomerang. Boomerang's good. Boomerang's a good movie. They're doing Boomerang now on BT. I know. I'm a little worried about that.

I'm not positive I'm going to acknowledge that or not. But it's Lena and Holly, so you got to give them a shot. Lena Waithe is so talented, and Holly is Holly. So you got to kind of give them a shot. Lena Waithe is so talented and Holly is Holly, so you got to kind of... So you think their heart's in the right place. I think they're definitely in the right place.

And I think BET's going to benefit from it because you got a filmmaker, you have an artist there in Lena Waithe, and then you also have an iconic actress and has obviously been there

from the ground level of Boomerang the first time around. So you have those guys together. They have an incredible cast, I think, that they got for the show. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do, honestly. The last time we did a podcast, we talked about all the roles and stuff for black actors, black filmmakers, and stuff like that.

That's probably the biggest thing that's changed since the last time we had microphones. In a sense of just— Just a lot of successes with minority projects. And now, you know, all these studios and these networks have kind of blatantly gone, Oh wait, we could make money here.

Hey, should we start funding more stuff? It's like, yeah. You think? Yeah. You think maybe, and,

and I'm, I'm sure you had a lot more opportunities than maybe you did three years ago. Yeah, I mean, I think the timing of everything is like just everything's coming to a head in a lot of ways. And yeah, the opportunities for myself has definitely grown over the years as my career has.

And being in a position to take advantage of those opportunities of being like, okay, I can take this situation and turn that into a production company. I can take this opportunity and turn that into a marketing company. I can turn that and turn it into, wow, then I look up and I kind of accumulated these pieces. But I think across the board, films like Black Panther really break the glass ceiling and really across the board to allow other studios. And then kudos to Marvel for doubling down

and backing that messaging and putting their money where their mouth is and really being first money in. So now everybody else is like, oh, man, Marvel's doing that? OK, cool. So maybe we could do that, too. And oh, it does work. And oh, man, a black filmmaker, black cast? Oh, wow, that's incredible.

But now everybody's looking for that culture. Everybody looking for that what's the what's their black panther what's their project that they can get and i think that's going to encourage future screenwriters future directors you know future uh producers who maybe didn't think that was an option yeah costume designers sound editing you know you know nephew kyle right there right who knows who knows could be anybody who knows but that's what people like i think the real change is going to happen when the kids that are coming up through high school right now that's getting ready to make that their major in college is getting to go to film school once they kind of get their confidence and their footing and experience and what they want to do, then they're going to like, you know, graduate to the, you know, to the pros and then they'll be able to really

make an impact and connect those dots and maximize off the work that we've done, that, you know, our forefathers have done, that, you know, all the greats that, you know, the Harry Belafonte's and the Sidney Portier's and the Denzel's and all that generation, you know, the Quincy Jones's and et cetera, et cetera, and Oprahs. And then now we're this class that I'm ushering behind, that I'm kind of trailing behind, and then everybody else. So it's a time thing. Well, they kind of needed their Coogler, right?

They didn't have that one visible guy who laid out this roadmap, basically, for a minority filmmaker. I think it wasn't time for that. I think the world and the temperature, especially racially at that time, you know, as far as like breaking into a genre that was, that was, that where you're still very clearly the minority. It wasn't time. I think everyone ran their race and did their, you know, who was there fighting on the ground level, did it to above and beyond expectation. And they blew those doors open, you know. And now it's time for their children to take that, what they've done, and take it to the next level.

And then when we're done running our race, then the next. It's as bad as you want it to have been like what is happening now if you wanted that to happen 40 years ago but that just would never happen yeah you know so in hindsight you wish it would have but in reality it's like everything's kind of right on time um i thought creed was like really underrated important with that too because it revived one of the most important movie franchises ever but it felt completely different and

I don't know it's been on cable a lot it's kind of you know I liked it when it came out but it's over the years it's kind of going up like I don't know where it ranks against the Rockies though you can't not just yet I need like 10 years.

You have to because we got to do more creeds. Oh, you want to do more? For sure. Definitely. So that's what I'm saying. It's hard to compare what Sly has created, you know, MJ created over the course of 40 years. You know, and then be like, me five years in the game, be like, well, let's

compare. I'm like, no, that's not that's, you can't compare the two. I got to at least do at least four or five creeds, knock on wood if we ever get there, to be able to compare against another franchise that's gone multiple, multiple movies. Well, the way you did it where it wasn't a reboot, it was kind of a continuation.

Like a spinoff. It wasn't a reboot, it was a spinoff. It took characters that I already liked, but now this is different. And i think for years and years people were just remaking movies and tv shows or whatever they're actually just remaking them and it was like my generation yeah it's like well i don't want to see this i already like the old one and my kid doesn't care so who's this for but then creed comes out and it's like for me it, it's cool. Cause I'm still attached to Rocky. Even like in Creed 2, you know, it's, oh, there's a picture of Duke.

Like, hey, Duke, love that guy. Then you got, obviously got, you know, Dolph Lundgren. Oh my God. Well, I mean, that was, I wasn't, I deliberately read nothing. What do you mean? As far as like what the movie was about? I knew nothing. I knew Drago was in it. That's all I knew. I saw the trailer. What do you mean? As far as like what the movie was about? I knew nothing. I knew Drago was in it.

That's all I knew. I saw the trailer. I couldn't avoid it. And you had told me it was, you thought there was Russia was going to be involved. And I was like, great. I don't want to know anything else. There's a lot of Dolph Lundgren in this movie. It is.

Like he has lines. He's in a lot of scenes. I wasn't prepared. He was so excited. He was happy. Oh my God. He won the lottery. Yeah, man.

How'd you get him? I'm kidding, man. Yeah. Now, he had to have been like, yes, I'm ready to be Drago again. Yeah. And redemption, I think, was really big for him in this movie. And the Drago name. Somehow, this movie can book in Rocky IV.

Yeah. You know? And still. Well, it hits the beats of Rocky II and Rocky IV. Yeah. You know? And still... Well, it hits the beats of Rocky II and Rocky IV. Mm-hmm. Because Rocky II is the engagement in pregnancy beats, and then Rocky IV are the rest of the beats. So it's a nice, natural continuation. But like you said, it's, it's own thing, you know? And I think clearly at the end of this one, you, you realize moving forward,

you're, you're going to be, you know, rooting for and following Adonis on his journey with his family, you know? Which is pretty cool. The guy who played Drago. Victor? Oh yeah. Florian. Florian Montanegro. How many more pounds was he than you in real life? Or were they using camera angles?

Yeah. On the shooting day, the difference? Yeah, when you guys were fighting. I was 197. He was 230-something. They did a nice job of making it seem like he was way, way, way bigger than you. No, no, no. Don't get me wrong.

He's way, way, way bigger than me. He, no, no, no. Don't get me wrong. He's way, way, way bigger than me. Like, he's 6'5 and got some weight on me. But, you know, I kind of did my thing, too. Oh, you think you can take him? No, no, no, no. That's not what I said. No, no, no. That's all right.

You just said it. Yeah, Flo, see me whenever. I'm going to see you overseas. Now, Florian, he's a beast of a guy, man. Like, he is massive. So we wanted that feeling of, like, Adonis, you shouldn't be in the ring with him. But we didn't want a David, man. Like he is massive. So we wanted that feeling of like Adonis, you shouldn't be in the ring with him, but we didn't want to David Goliath.

Right. Right. So we wanted to make it make sense. And do you take a, a real punches in this one? Cause in Rocky one, we told the story about how you took one. Yeah.

So I challenge your manhood. Oh, in front of everybody. There's no way I could have not, uh, you know, took the punch at that point, but no,

I've realized that that's expected. I look forward to it now. It's like, I want to be taking these real punches, you know? Because it seems like in watching the movie, it seemed like you definitely took one right in the chops. But I couldn't tell what else you took. No, it was positive. Like the ones that are clearly like these are the ones you're taking,

like intentional real punches, maybe three of them. Oof. Maybe three. The slip-ups, you know, I can't count because, like, you know, we hit each other a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, while we're filming. It just happens. You get tired mentally, you know, and physically.

You slip left when you're supposed to slip right. Run straight into a jet. So you're up to 197? I was heaviest I've ever been in my life. Jesus. Best shape of my life. You look jacked for the—I don't want to give away any of the movie. No, it's all good.

At one point in the movie, you looked like, where were you filming that? The desert? Yeah, we were in New Mexico. Oh. We were in New Mexico in the middle of nowhere. So when I saw you last year, you weren't positive it was going to happen. Yeah, it was a lot of things that you know like you know making a movie is so many things have to go perfectly you know um and happen just right and

you know um you know once we realized that ryan wasn't coming back and doing the movie because he was finishing black panther scheduling wise yeah uh you know and wanting to make this time slot you know a lot of times it's backing into dates, you know, we're making these movies and they're trying to find the right filmmaker, you know, trying to find the right story, you know, and that took some time. And at one point it was, it was, you know, it was up in the air and, but then everything in the 12th hour came together the way it was supposed to. Yeah, all of a sudden you were filming it. It went from like, I don't know if it's happening to he's in Philadelphia.

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in a variety of limited edition colors at allbirds.com. All right, back to MBJ. You lost out on the Sexiest Man Alive People magazine issue. I did. Cover. I don't know, who do we blame on your PR team? What happened?

Idris Elba got it. I don't know what happened. we blame on your PR team? What happened? Idris Elba got it. I don't know what happened. I mean, Idris has been holding down like tall, dark, and handsome. Like sexy for a while. He's got the salt and pepper beard. I ain't got a beard, man. He's a little taller than me, man. He's got the accent.

You think that's what it is? It's the accent? That's bullshit I don't know I think you gotta look within a little bit I don't know if you campaigned hard enough

what's going on you're promoting all these movies so you're a single guy I am a single guy you're in all these different cities

I am in all these different cities and countries so what's that like what's going on are you just going from hotel room to hotel room I'm going from time to meet I am in all these different cities and countries. Yeah. So what's that like? What's going on? Are you just going from hotel room to hotel room? I'm going from— Give time to meet?

No. It's tough because you go from press room to press room, or you got phoners. And then when you deal with the time difference, so it's prime time somewhere where you got to do something. And you don't really get a chance to go out and explore the town when you're on a press tour. Personally, if I was going to travel, like vacation, these places, I would spend a lot more time out and about. But for this one, it's tough. You don't do the NBA player move where you land in a city and you go, what's up, Copenhagen? What's going on tonight?

Jalen used to point me out to that. I used to die. Is that the move? Yeah. He used to say, Is that the move? Yeah. He used to say, watch when NBA players land in cities. They'll shout out the city because they want people to DM them. So if you randomly see a post about Brazil or- Yeah.

What's up, Rio? What's up, Rio? What we doing tonight? What we doing tonight? Okay. Got it. Got it. Thanks, Jalen.

Appreciate you. OG tips. Yeah. Listen, he's one of the masters. What about the, since Creed and then Black Panther, the other famous people with you? How's that changed? What do you mean?

I don't know. You're kind of in that royalty circles now. Like, you know, you're running a LeBron in a club. Maybe five years ago, he might not have seen Fruitvale. Who knows? He might have remembered you on Friday Night Lights. But now it's like, hey, MBJ. I guess it's definitely a different recognition amongst my peers, you know, in the entertainment industry. Is there a little secret handshake club?

Not yet. No? I mean, all black folks got a secret handshake. No, but like LeBron, Denzel, like that, like they have a plus listers. Like you're not, I got to create one. No, I don't know.

You can't text those guys. I can text them. Yeah. That's my guys. What about, what about Michael Jordan? The other Michael Jordan? I haven't really,

I haven't met him. I have met him technically. Cause I remember it, but I'm doubt he'll ever remember that. But we haven't officially met like now. That'd be cool. No business stuff on him. I mean,

we should come out with like a Michael B. Jordan, Eric Jordan collab. Why wouldn't he do that? I don't know. We could talk to Reggie over at Jordan. We could talk to Jordan. Talk to Nike.

What's going on? Some Jordans? Do you see like doing a company like what LeBron has and some of these different people? Like a content company? Yeah, I think what Mav and Spring Hill and Rich

and everybody, Randy and PR and everybody he's got over there in his squad, kind of what they set up in their own way. You know, it's a different thing. LeBron is, you know, the best basketball player in the world. And I'm striving to be, you know, one of the best actors in the world as well. So to kind of build a ecosystem around me that takes care of my industry, you know, my entertainment, my field, things that I can kind of, you know, have my hands on and have my hands into. Yeah, I want to create that. You know, I want to build that with people that, you know, I know and care about and I've been around and know me the best and be able to give them opportunities to fill those lanes. Well, so he famously started all that stuff with his high school buddies.

Exactly. And he took a ton of shit for it. Exactly. People are like, you're new with your high school buddies? That's going to be terrible. And now look at him. Exactly. So who's your inner circle that you would do that with?

Oh, man. Sterling Brum. He's probably sitting in the other room. And my other guy that people know me, they know, but I don't want to, I can't say his name right now. All right, so you have a group. You have people. Yeah, yeah, I got three of the usual suspects that's there,

but obviously we're going to surround ourselves by people that are much smarter than us and know what they're doing as well. I love collaborating and working with people. I like building things with people. Like that TV show we're going to do. We've been talking about for years. I'm not saying the idea because I'm going to take it.

No, you can't. But yeah, that's one of them too. Yeah. We got that one coming. Yep. We get Kugler direct one episode just as a favor.

No, no, no. I'm coming from his $80 million mansion. He'll just helicopter in and he'll shoot some scenes and leave. I'm calling it all favors when it comes to that show and anything else. I can't wait to start working with all the people that I love and care about and I respect their work. And I think they're so talented over the years.

And it's like, all right, finally, we could do this together. It's like in the acting world when you're at a party and you run into an actor or you're at a press event. And it's like, you know, you have small talk for a while and then it's like, yeah, yeah, we should do something together. And it never happens. Yeah, let's have lunch. Let's have lunch.

Never happens. Oh yeah, we should work together one day. Yeah, I would love to. Never happens. But like for me, I think I've organically made so many relationships and have connections with people and other talent that I really believe them

and I believe that it will happen eventually. I know it is. I know it's will happen eventually. I know it is. I know it's going to happen. I just got to wait for the right project. You're one of the great child actor success stories. Child actor blows my mind though. Doesn't go a lot of ways, a lot of great ways with child actors. Hearing about that I'm a child actor is depressing.

Well, you're a child actor. I'm sorry. You're a child and you're on The Wire. That's one of the famous shows of all time. You're a child and you were on The Wire. That's one of the famous shows of all time. You were a child actor. Touche. But I guess it's one of those, I didn't get too much too fast. Like, it wasn't like I was a worldwide known superstar child actor.

It was like, oh, yeah, it's the kid that looks familiar. You know, like. Right. You weren't on like Full House. Exactly. It wasn't like the show wasn't revolving around me. That would have been weird if you were on Full House. That would have been like season 10.

Yeah. That would have been like the crossover. They finally went next door would have been like season 10. Yeah, that would have been like the crossover. They finally went next door to saw the neighbors. Yeah, where'd he come from? Like, oh man, I didn't even know he was there. Like, yeah, that would have been a little awkward. But yeah, so I think like the fact that I just kind of learned with my craft and like matured my talent and like just being able to act along with my age,

like it was the right, I don't know. It was the right pace. What's the best story you have of somebody coming up to you with some sort of, I just saw Black Panther or here's what Black Panther meant to me or anything like that? Because it seemed like that movie really resonated with people in an unusual way. No, it did. They all kind of stand out.

The love that I've been getting for Killmonger and just the movie as a whole has been touching people on such an emotional, personal, deep level that they're all like so emotional. And then you have some that are just, you know, the kids that are just excited and happy to see, you know, Killmonger and Black Panther or whatever the case may be. But I think the funniest thing has been like the things I don't see, like the memes, you know, that I'm not in control of, you know, like the things that,'t see, like the memes, you know, that I'm not in control of, you know, like the things that, you know, there's like this one that was floating around at one time that I really laughed at. And it was like a picture of me, you know, in my seat on a plane.

I was like texting or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And I remember the flight, you know, cause I was like texting, I was like super tired. It was like four o'clock, five o'clock in the morning. It was really, really early. And then the caption was like, I yelled out Wakanda forever and he didn't say anything. That's why I'm glad you died or some shit like that. He said something like that. That was the caption. And I thought it was so funny because I laughed hysterically because, hey, nobody yelled out Wakanda forever. I didn't hear anything. I was like in my phone. And the fact that just that just kind of went viral was just pretty funny to me. People didn't hear anything. I was like in my phone. And the fact that just, that just kind of went viral

was just pretty funny to me. Like it. People don't yell that out to you. Wakanda forever? Oh, for sure. Oh, they actually do that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But halfway through,

they're like, they kind of like take it back because they realized I wasn't really with Wakanda. Right. I was going to say. They're like Wakanda forever. I'm like, yes, cool.

Wakanda forever. That's like, yo, go Celtics to like Isaiah Thomas. It doesn't make sense. Not at all. But I understand the feeling of what they're trying to get through. Like, yes, we did that. How about Chadwick's career took off too?

Oh, man, for sure. I mean, he's been good. He's good on SNL, by the way. He was so funny on SNL. So, so good. No, Chadwick's been consistent. He's been consistently banging out projects and doing great work. And this one is just the new bar that he's been cracking at.

So I'm excited for him. He did an incredible job. Did you interact with Angela Bassett? I did. I've known Angela for a long time. I heard her husband, Courtney. Courtney Vance. She's one of the great natural wonders we have.

Isn't she like 60? And she looks 20. It's Courtney. She's one of the great natural wonders we have. Isn't she like 60? And she looks 20. It's unbelievable. She is incredible. I don't understand it. Genetics, man. She was in that Tina Turner movie like 30 years ago. Black don't crack.

I'm telling you, she is. It's unbelievable. She's incredible. No, she's awesome. And to be able to work with her and have those kind of like you know those scenes where we're kind of like you know all the tension and and animosity toward each other it was pretty fun to play where are you where are you based now do you even have a home yeah i'm kind of a nomad living out of a suitcase and out of hotels you just have like three suitcases and five people

with you and that's your life that's give a house i do have a house um i live with my parents they live with me. West coast or east coast? West coast. Okay. West coast. Got them out of the snow. Do you have your own room?

I do. Okay. Got my own fridge. That's great. Everything is cool. It's kind of cool. Do you have Wi-Fi and stuff? Wi-Fi is kind of spotty in the Valley, but yeah, it works. It's serviceable.

Do you have a couple of cars? I have a couple of cars. I'm a car guy. Do you get to use your cars? I don't, but when I get back home, whenever I'm in town, I make it a thing to drive as much as I can. Because you buy all the stuff with your salaries from these movies, but then you're just traveling all the time and you can't use anything.

That's fair. I don't buy a lot, though. I'm pretty. Yeah, but I mean, you buy a car and then you're going to get to drive it. Exactly. But in my heart, I know I have it. When was the last serious relationship you had? Maybe like

eight months ago, seven months ago. Ah. Oh, seven, eight months ago. All right. So you're traveling. Traveling. You have this

new lawyer movie coming out that's looking good. And then what happens? I don't even know when that's coming out. Podcast on the ringer? You want a podcast? Podcast might be cool. Do you want to compete with Maverick?

Want to do a coin flip? Coin flip? Nah, man. No, what they've been doing is really good, man. Honestly, for me, it's... Stop praising them so much. I'm right here. We're doing some great stuff over here.

You've been doing it. Awesome as well. Microphones. I love what you do at the place. Great. Thanks, man. Andre the Giant is looking at me. we're doing some great stuff over here did you see awesome as well microphones I love what you do with the place great thanks man Andre the Giant is looking at me

if you're ready to do some multimedia stuff we're right here for you you got me yeah I got you whatever you want to do podcasts aren't interesting I just don't know

you're too busy I was about to say I don't even know if I have the stamina for podcasts well you gotta stop doing these movies where you also have to get in like insane

shape. Hey, I have one body. Like 4.30 in the morning and eating like egg whites and then working out for three hours. I'm just saying, it just makes it easier to do my shout outs when I go to these countries. Your shout outs. I'm just saying, it makes it a little easier.

Makes it easier. Copenhagen, Rome, all these places. Have you gotten shouted out in hip hop songs and stuff? What's been the best example? Because that's another check mark. I don't think I've been. I haven't. Not yet. Didn't Jason Tatum get one recently?

Yeah. I think that's why he's in a slump. Migos? Yeah, that was bad for him. He hasn't played well for a month. It wasn't bad for him. No, it's bad for him because I think it went to his head. He's not going to the basket anymore.

Settling for 20-footers. Go to the basket, Jason Tatum. Same, man. He's at Kobe camp. He's finding his spot. His footwork is incredible. It's really cool to see Tatum play. I did not like that he spent time with Kobe.

Why? Because Kobe's the enemy. He's a Laker. I did not like that he spent time with Kobe. Why? Because Kobe's the enemy. He's a Laker. I don't trust Kobe. You think he's sabotaging his footwork? I don't think that. I know that. Why is he so interested in Jason Tatum? He's a Laker. It's ridiculous. There's no way that was genuine. He's like, Jason Tatum,

come here. I want to show you some stuff. Now Jason Tatum doesn't go to the basket anymore. What's up with your Celtics, man? I've been watching. What's going on? I'm going nuts. I know you're going crazy right now. I'm going nuts.

We're taping this on a Tuesday afternoon. We have too many guys. Nobody's happy. It's like you in the celebrity game that time when I had to juggle you with all the players. We had to play like 11 people. We had to play the Victoria's Secret model. You didn't have your feel. That's Terry Rozier right now.

You and that game is Terry Rozier the whole season. Got it. Yeah, so they have too many guys. They brought Hayward back, and he's just not healthy. He's like a shell of himself because he had that terrible injury. No, but do you think it's like, you know, obviously it's his first year back. They've been playing, I don't know how many games have been played already.

Is it like a midway through the all-star break? We start to see. I hope so. Okay. He is not, you know in utah he was like fearless he'd go to the rim he was but now he's scared but he was also the guy yeah you know i'm saying now he's a you know he's a role player now he's coming off the bench obviously because of men's restrictions and like health and stuff like that but like like going from the man on your team to a role player with a more talented team, does that completely change your game?

He's definitely feeling his way. And then the other thing is they don't know who their best five is. And basketball is really easy. You can have any team, and it's like, if I have five guys that play well together, I'm going to do okay. That's what happened to them in the playoffs last year. They figured out these five guys that played well together, and they did well.

And they can't figure out the five. It's really frustrating. It's driving me crazy. It's actually frustrating to play with them on 2K because you don't even know who to shoot with sometimes. It's like, oh, I got this person. I got that person. I got, you know,

Marcus. And I got, it's like, then you end up like just turning the ball over. I got to keep video Marcus Boris happy. Oh man, listen, first of all,

2K will have you having personal grudges with real players for no reason. It's like, I don't even know this man, but I can't stand him on 2K. Did you hear me,

my guest commentary? No. Oh yes, I found that. Oh my God, yes. On all the Celtic games, yes, you were talking. Like, without a doubt. What a dream job that was for me.

I'm sure. They asked me, and I was available. I thought I was in, like, two seconds I was there. It's a really weird NBA season because all these teams are talented. Like, even the bad teams. Like, you watch the bad teams, and you're like, oh, I like that guy. Oh, that guy's good. And it's just, like, the league's kind of loaded. So, oh, I like that guy. Oh, that guy's good. And it's just like the league's kind of loaded.

So, like, nobody's saying. And then the Warriors thing. I mean, that is like. Yeah, that's. I went to the game when Draymond and KD had the beef. Did you? I was videotaping it with my cell phone and putting it on my Twitter. I was like, something just happened.

But I don't know what's going on with those guys. It really does feel like it's going to be the end. I mean, you know, they're stacked, man. It's like you're not even allowed to pick them on 2K because it's cheating. Right. But it's, yeah, the league is crazy. I mean, first of all, all the games scores are through the roof this year. The pace.

Do you think it's just because of the you know the the 14 second reset shot clock no it's the it's the pace and it's the fact that half the teams are just throwing away centers now and shooting like

everything's three it's basically like the best pickup game you've ever seen where there's no center got it and that's what's happening teams are playing like

Michael Kidd Goldcrest at center got it you know it's actually been part of the Celtics problem is I wish that they would just go small and just try to outscore the other team versus so that's been part of the Celtics problem I wish that they would just go small

and just try to outscore the other team so that's been part of it but also it's just from a talent standpoint it's just a really nice time where you have Anthony Davis and Giannis and Lillard and all these dudes who are in their age 23 to 28

who are just hitting their primes at the same time the Bucs are going to be nice that's who I played with on 2K before they got all nice age 23 to 28 who are just like hitting their primes at the same time. The Bucs are going to be nice. They're going to be nice. That's who I played with on 2K before they got all nice. Like I was playing with the Bucs, but like, okay. So who does, who does LeBron need to get a ring? So people think he's waiting on Anthony Davis, which because he just signed with Rich Paul, who, as you know,

is LeBron's dude. That seemed a little suspicious. But I don't know. I think they're the second best team in the West right now. I really do. Because they still have LeBron. They have young guys. So they might make a move in February. Well, so people, there's some Klay Thompson buzz building for next summer.

For next summer. His dad's the announcer. Really? Oh, yeah. Michael Thompson. For next summer. His dad's the announcer. Really? Oh, yeah. Michael Thompson. Okay. Yeah. So he's got the Laker ties.

That's so funny. I was looking, I went to the Laker game, the first game the Lakers won this season and I heard the announcer. I was like, okay,

you could have been a little bit more excited. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like, you know, you're announcing, you know,

the Lakers and stuff like LeBron. I want to feel it a little bit more. There was a really weird, like, I don't know. I feel like you're announcing the Lakers and stuff like LeBron. I want to feel it a little bit more. There was a really weird, I don't know, 15, 17-day stretch when LeBron, when the season started. And he just didn't seem like a Laker. And I think the fans were trying to feel it out. I don't think he knew what was going on.

He looked weird in uniform. And he was kind of too big for the Lakers. The Lakers are always the brand. But LeBron's brand was kind of bigger than the Laker brand. But now it seems like the calibration,

now he's like having these 50-point games and kicking ass. But it seems like everybody's kind of figured out. But I still feel like the Laker fans, they love Kobe so much.

And that's still... There's a little bit of, I still... You'll have to prove to me you're not better than Kobe who's always going to be those comparisons who's your favorite team

I can't even remember I'm a Knicks fan oh man let's not even talk about it it's okay I'm sorry yeah yeah no it's tough we need new ownership though

oh you think no no that's it so it's like until that happens I feel like we're going to be like plagued with just bad decisions.

Yeah. That's the one thing I've learned in the first four plus decades of my sports fanmanship is it really, it's amazing. It comes down to the owner, like 70 to 80% of what your sports fan happiness is. If you have a bad owner, you're just screwed. You might stumble into LeBron, like Dan Gilbert stumbled into LeBron because they won the lottery. But for the most part part you're just screwed because they're going to do the wrong thing and the Knicks do the wrong thing all the time they have the wrong people, they have the wrong players

and I love Tisdale, he's super dope but why doesn't Mark Jackson have a job? Mark Jackson? after the Warriors thing? after the Warriors what? I mean let's be honest I could have coached the Warriors thing? After the Warriors what? I mean, let's be honest. I mean, I could have coached the Warriors

like after that. Come on. I could have coached them and went to the gym. What are you talking about? That team that Mark put together? This should be the TV show as you're a sports radio host

with crazy opinions. You just play yourself. But is that crazy? You don't think? Yeah, Mark Jackson. I mean, there's a reason he hasn't gotten hired

in four years. I mean, but it just seems to me from the outside looking, obviously there's a lot of internal basketball, NBA politics that I'm not privy to. That was not a disclaimer. That's a fact. But it seems to me like he put together that team.

You know, whatever front office clashing things got going on. So, you know, I think the offense wasn't as fluid as it was once Kirk came in because whatever. But I just felt like

for the Knicks, Mark was the perfect fit. You know, playing in the garden, you know, East Coast, coming in. I just felt like that.

Could handle the media. Yeah. By the way, you're not the only Knicks fan that I've heard say this. There is like a feeling like he's like a New Yorker. He gets it. Could handle the media. Yeah. By the way, you're not the only Knicks fan that I've heard say this. There is like a feeling like he's like a New Yorker. He gets it. He gets the city.

At least they're finally doing the right thing in tanking this year. They never like totally committed to it. Now this year, the league, because the league is like so talented and they're not. And they're looking at Philly like, they did what? Like, all right, let's try this. Well, imagine if you got Zion. Have you seen him? I mean, it would be all over.

You know, crazy thing is, all I saw was dunk highlights of Zion through high school. So I was like, all right. Right, he's like a novelty act. Yeah, yeah, what else can he do? I've seen him. You know, I've seen one of his college games. And I'm like, man, this guy is like a freak of nature. He reminds me of like a Sean Kemp.

Right, crossed with Charles Barkley. With like Barkley. But bigger. But bigger. I haven't cared about college bat. I cared when Ben Simmons was at LSU only because he was a Simmons and my son is named Ben. And I was like, I hope this guy's good.

So I was kind of rooting for that. But the last time I really cared was the Durant-Odin season. Where I was actually just watching college in December and January. And I feel like Duke's going to make me do that this year. Because those three guys, because I like Baratunde. I really like Reddish. Oh, man. All three of those guys are great.

I think they're like, I mean, it's so early to say, you know what I'm saying? You can't say like, you know, compare them to like the Fab Five, you know, like, no disrespect, Jalen. You know, or like, you know, who, you know, best college basketball team. But they're, they're impressive, man. They're super impressive. You know, we have somebody at the ring or Juliet who has a huge crush on you, who had

to go back to New York for the holidays and wasn't here. The interview got moved. Okay. And I just wanted to give her a shout out that she's missing this. Is this a moment? She was going to sit in that chair and pretend she was taking notes. But she's really like one of like the highest, you know, she's like an inner circle person, but she was going to pretend she was like a PA.

Tommy condoned it. But now she's not here. So she missed it. So you have to give her a shout out. Juliet. Juliet. Yeah. Hey, Juliet, I'm looking at where you were going to be sitting.

Yeah, it's too bad. And it's a shame. It's a shame. She could have been laughing. She would have been selling your jokes. It would have been phenomenal. I would have had a much funnier interview, but, you know. How long was this press tour for Creed 2?

We're probably going until like mid-January. Because you were doing stuff last week, and I could already tell. I saw one of the things. I was like, oh, he's already tired. I hope he has anything left. I don't say that. Come on, come on. Get that dude some coffee.

You saw? Now, how many shows and radio and all that stuff you've done? I don't know, man. It's a lot. Just doing everything? Not everything. We don't, that's never been our model.

You did the ESPN car wash. That's fun, though. Never been at a car wash. What are you talking about? No, that's what they call it. You did the ESPN car wash. That's fun though. Never been at a car wash. What are you talking about? No, that's what they call it when you go to ESPN. You do like first take. Yes, I did that. You didn't know that was called the car wash?

What are the other ESPN shows? Or did you just do first take? Did I do Inside the MV? No, I did TNT. I did Shaq, Shaq, Ernie. Oh, you did the Shaq and Ernie? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did.

How was that one? It was great. Did it seem like the Shaq and Ernie? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did. How was that one? It was great. Did it seem like Barkley was still following basketball? Because I can't tell. No, no. He was still following basketball. All right. Because he's still saying that you can't win the title with jump shots.

But it was like, the Warriors, like, three down the last four years. What are you talking about? Just listening to Shaq and Chuck, like, go back and forth is like, you know, I could do that all day. What about Stephen A? I love him. Great thing is all those guys have known me since I was about, like, 18, 19. I would say earlier that because of The Wire. Yeah, but no, personally, though.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like to be, you know, besides Ernie, you know, but everybody else is like, you know, to see me kind of, like, grow up and for them to always kind of be supporters and champions of mine is like pretty cool it's it's this this press run has been pretty surreal because all the people that have been following me and supporting me and kind of watched me kind of go through the processes they're here for this moment too and that's you know you're included in that so it's cool gee thanks it's all good man i just want to give you some love you know and vince from friday night lights who doesn't get enough credit anymore. No, no.

But his style, I really feel like in 2018 football, it was a little Mahomes-ish. No, I mean, I just feel like the Giants. Like Mahomes is kind of on your corner a little bit with Vince. Listen, if the Giants can draft Vince Howard, we'll be good. We'll be good. When you watch Mahomes, do you just feel like he was banging through those Friday Night Lights seasons,

just writing stuff down? I mean, he might have. How old is he? He's like what? He's a young kid, right? He's like 20. He's in those Friday Night Lights seasons, just writing stuff down? I mean, he might have. How old is he? He's like what? He's a young kid, right? He's in the Friday Night Lights wheelhouse. Right? 23.

23, yeah. So he probably grew up watching it, maybe. He'd be like, man, Vince has some. I should steal that, that little scramble and roll out. Little East Dillon line. Throwing across my body, whipping it down. The Wildcat. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you see that game last night or you were doing stuff? I watched. I was doing something, but I watched the last four minutes, which is equally as exciting. It was incredible. That high scoring game. Man, those two offenses are incredible. It's funny because there were a lot of mistakes too.

It wasn't the greatest football game ever played, but it was definitely one of the most dramatic. And very entertaining. Yeah. Turn on those promos. Unbelievably entertaining. Yeah. It was really good. Anybody who doesn't even give a crap about football would watch it.

All right, we have to go. Technically. So, listen. What's up? You didn't get that sexiest man. There's always next year. There is always next year. We have the Oscars to worry about.

Are you trust her with the campaign for that or no? Do you feel like she's, is she going to step it up when we get to December or no? All stones are being turned over, so as much as you can. So you have no control over that stuff. You just do the work that you can do and just let it ride, man. All right. And don't do too much press. Okay.

Because the hotel rooms are all going to start to blend into one another. Is that what it is? Yeah. You're going to be like, where am I today? You're just going to look around and be this nice, sweet. I do too much press. Okay. Because the hotel rooms are all going to start to blend into one another. Is that what it is? Yeah. You're going to be like, where am I today? You're just going to look around and be this nice, sweet. Every day. When I leave here, I'm going to ask her exactly, where am I right now? Where are we going?

Where am I? And then we got to get in the creative. We got to come up. We got to get that idea. We have that one idea. Have you met Alana Mayo, the head of my development? No. I'll handle.

Yeah, I'll do that. She's holding down the fort while I'm on this crazy shit. Okay. All right. We'll do that. Congratulations on everything. Go see Creed 2. My man.

Creed 2. Yeah, man. It was good. Creed 2. Creed 2. Yeah. How many are we doing? Five?

You had to do the one bad one that we tried to pretend didn't happen. No, no, no. You got to pretend it didn't happen. Do four good ones and then the fifth one where it's like, ah, man, I wish you didn't do the fifth one. I's like, oh man, I wish I didn't do the fifth one. I needed the money. If I ever get there, then you have permission

to just, I don't know, choke me out or something. All right. MBJ, thank you. Quality. Appreciate you. All right.

Thanks to House. Thanks to Michael B. Jordan. Don't forget to go see Creed 2. Thanks to Zipcruiter. Don't forget to go to zipcruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to FanDuel. They're going to make life a hell of a lot easier for you

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And, and thanks to everybody at the ringer, the ringer podcast network, the ringer.com. Nephew Kyle, I'll be feeding you tomorrow. It's my thanks to you. I'm going to feed you and get you nice and drunk.

Happy holidays, everybody. We'll be back next week. I don't see them. When we saw them say, back next week.