The Bill Simmons Podcast - Mike Francesa on the NBA's Real MVP, Yanks-Sox, and Masters Lessons. Plus: the Facebook Crisis with Alyssa Bereznak | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 351)

Episode Date: April 11, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's BIll Simmons is joined by Mike Francesa to talk about present and past Masters winners, the Yankees' slow start, the Red Sox's hot streak, other AL teams, NBA MVPs, the NBA playoffs, and what the first couple of picks in this year's NFL draft might look like (5:50). Then The Ringer's Alyssa Bereznak connects to talk about the Facebook scandal, Mark Zuckerberg's comments, and how to regulate the internet (1:08:20). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. I did not use ZipRecruiter to hire Nephew Kyle. But if he had been on ZipRecruiter, I don't know. I don't think it would have worked out. You don't think it would have worked out? All right, so he's in the 20% of it wouldn't have worked out. They wouldn't have suggested him. He's been great.

But 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within a day, a quality candidate that was probably better than Nephew Kyle as a candidate. They're the best at distributing your job to the best boards, identifying the right people, and inviting them to apply. My listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Meanwhile, SeatGeek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. For $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase on any game or sporting event, for NBA, NHL, baseball, whatever, you know what to do. Use promo code BS. Buy your Red Sox playoff tickets right now.

The Red Sox are a machine! My dad was sending orgasmic Red Sox tweets from his Twitter feed yesterday, Dr. Bill 1947. Download the SeatGeek app or go right to SeatGeek.com. A couple of things to mention. Andre the Giant premiered last night on HBO, the documentary that we've been working on for a long time here at Ringer Films. It seemed like the response was great. I'm so glad people finally got to saw it. Wanted to tell you it's on HBO2 tonight, I think at 10 o'clock. And also more

importantly, it's on HBO On Demand, HBO Go, HBO Now. However you get your HBO from a streaming standpoint, it is available. Really want you to see it. I'm really proud of this one. And it's been great that everybody was finally able to see it. It's been the worst part of this is the four to five months when you feel like it's ready to be seen and then you just kind of have to wait. So this was cool. And thanks to everybody who sent a nice email or a tweet about it. Appreciate it. Couple of podcast things that are going on. I went on the Ringer MLB show yesterday to talk about Otani's MVP campaign, as well as the Red Sox and the future of the Red Sox this season with Michael Bauman and Ben Lindbergh. So that happened. I went on House of Carbs today. We did

a special House of Carbs slash Ringer NBA crossover that had a really fun gimmick. And I've kind of, after the fact, realized I should have just taken it for the BS podcast and you guys could have enjoyed it. Now you have to go to House of Carbs. You have to listen to House. No, I'm just kidding. Go to House of Carbs. Check that out. What we did was we took the 16 NBA playoff cities and tried to figure out, ranking them from 16 to one, who our bellies wanted to see in the NBA Finals. So that I'm going to every NBA Finals game this year. I'm probably going to bring House to at least a couple of them. And more importantly, I'm going to bring House's stomach in his mouth.

And we were trying to figure out what would be the best case scenario for the Finals just for us to gain seven pounds. So we played it out. One of the reasons we played it out was we figured the cities that weren't ranked as well would get pissed and mail us, oh, I can't believe you thought Cleveland sucks. They have the greatest Polish restaurant in downtown, whatever. Please mail us all of this. Mail it to us at tweeted house. He's at house from DC on Twitter. He has the house of carbs Instagram. Send this to us at tweeted house. He's at house from DC on Twitter. He has the house of carbs Instagram.

Send this to us. We are belly sourcing. We did this partly because it was a completely passionate list that we did no research whatsoever for. We just followed our bellies and our brains and we're prepared to have people yell at us, scold us, be angry at us. That's all fine. Just tell us where to eat. If we did something wrong, correct us. We're right here. We're not going to take it personally because if we get a good meal out of it, great.

So that happened. Check that out. It's actually a really, really fun podcast. It was one of my favorite ones I've done in a while. It's a good one. It's on House of Carves. We also ran it on the Ringer MBA show today. The other thing is I am hosting the Ringer NBA show tonight. We're doing group chat. Chris Ryan is in Philadelphia. So I am taking over as the host tonight. We are going to tape after the Minnesota Denver game tonight, which is going to end around one o'clock East coast time, 10 o'clock Pacific time. We're taping a show with a bunch of our ringer friends and that will be up late, late night tonight in time for your Thursday morning drive, your Thursday morning workout, your Thursday morning, I don't have a job. This is the

highlight of my morning because I'm not working. Whatever you have, whatever floats your boat, it will be available. We're going to break down the Minnesota Denver game, all the playoff seedings, all the ramifications and go from there. So check that out. Be ready for that. Coming up, Mike Francesa, our old friend, the mystery man. He's going to talk about the Masters, the Super Bowl, the NBA Finals, MVP, all kinds of stuff, Yankees, Red Sox. And then after him, Alyssa Beresnack from The Ringer covers tech for us. Very good writer. Has a lot of thoughts. We want to talk about this Facebook thing, which we have not talked about really on the podcast since it ballooned and mushroomed and blew up. It's something that I am really scared of and confused about. And I'm really worried that this is going to get worse, not better. So we're going to talk about that with Alyssa.

But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, as promised, the world's most interesting man. It's not the Dos Equis guy. It's Mike Francesa. He's been hibernating all of 2018. Nobody knows what he's up to. What are you up to, Mike Francesa? I've been busy. I've been keeping busy.

I haven't talked to you in a while, though. We haven't spoken in a while. I know you were down at the Masters with some friends of mine who saw you down there. Did you enjoy your experience? I enjoyed it. I loved it. It was probably the greatest 48 hours of my dad's

life. It was everything he ever wanted. You know what? I think if now I'm going to figure that your father is a weekend golfer and he loves golf. If you, I can't imagine if that's the case, anyone ever going to a place that would even approach what Augusta is like, because it is, it is so special from that regard. It is so different and so unique. It's, it's an amazing place where any golfer has to go once. And it's one of those things you keep hearing

how special it is. And if you haven't gone, you're like, alright, enough with Augusta. Fine. I'm sure it's great. But then when you go, it's like, oh my god. They take your phone and the course is so much harder than I think anyone can imagine. And so much hillier. So many

hills and some of these some of these tees where you really have to like threading a needle to hit it straight. It burned Spieth on the 18th hole on Sunday. It was just great.

It gave me a whole new perspective on the course and how hard it is. And it looks so pretty it's almost fake. It looks almost fake and so pretty. And they do doll it up

which we know they dye the water and they bring in azaleas and that's fine. But they make it beautiful and it looks beautiful. And it's a unique tournament and it has a mystique. And that's why everyone always says, oh, put all of it on TV and change this. And these guys are smart enough and wealthy enough, but smart enough that they know exactly what they have. And the mystique is what makes it special. And that's why everybody treats it so special, because it is unique. It is a unique experience.

It's a unique competition. And the other thing that is an enormous advantage, which no other golf tournament can deal with, is the people at home know the holes. At that course, everybody knows where the pin placement's going to be on Sunday and where you got to hit the ball and all that stuff if you watch it all the time so it really gives the fan a tremendous uh ability to view it almost like a player where he doesn't get that week to week you're like me you appreciate true greatness and i think tiger at his peak was up there with

ollie and jordan and you, some of the other guys. Jack was on that same level. Jack from my lifetime. Nicholas was on that same level. But you're right. That's true greatness. And Jack had it. Tiger has it.

He won't ever have it again, but he had it. And you're right. That's true dominance and true greatness. Absolutely. So as you're watching his career unfold now, people are so hopeful at the Masters. And even I was there Thursday and people were following him like it was out of a sports movie. Half the people on the course were just following him from hole to hole. We want this to happen so badly. And yet the history of following sports says, you know, this is probably Ali post third Frazier fight.

This is probably Jordan on the Wizards. This is probably Jack in the 80s other than the 86 Masters. What are your hopes for Tiger at this point? I think he can win again on the tour. I think he might be able to steal a major. Steal. But actually, he no longer is built for Augusta because he cannot win where his driver is going to be a dominant club.

He has to be able to hit his stinger. He has to be able to hit that three-wood. He can't keep the driver in the fairway, nor can Phil. Phil doesn't have the club head speed nor the ability to be consistent enough with the driver to play those courses against these younger guys. These other guys are bigger, they're stronger, plus they hit it straighter. So that's why those guys, even if they're playing well, it's going to be very hard for them to win against Dustin Johnson or against a Spieth or against so many of these guys, Thomas, Fowler, any of them, because these guys are longer, they're straighter.

And that's the difference, Tiger and Phillip both have the same malady. They can't keep their driver in the fairway. And that is a big problem. And Tiger on Sunday hit it straight. From everything he said, he said he hit it great. And he didn't putt well that day. Well, usually he putts well. And his wedge bothered him for a while, but it's been good since he came back.

He no longer, though, can use the driver, and that's why I don't think Tiger will ever win at Augusta again. I think he could win a major. I think he could steal one if he really played great. I just don't think he'll win at Augusta. Do you see greatness from Spieth? I see not like Tiger dominance, but what Spieth has that's better than anybody else's, he manages the game between his ears better than anybody out there.

He is very, very good. And I'll tell you, Justin Thomas is close. They are very, very good, and they play it very smart. They handle course management. And Spieth owns Augusta. And that's why you saw him almost bring the entire tournament to its knees with a Sunday performance that was insane until the 18th. Absolutely insane.

And the most amazing part about that was that he hit the ball in a fair way. Every hole until 18 when he hit the tree because Spieth usually sprays his driver. He's not great off the tee. That's not his strength. His strength is his amazing putting, although this year he's had a little bit of a problem with his short putts. A lot of people think he's got a little bit of a,

not yips, but a little bit of a trick going on right there with his short putts. But the bottom line is he usually is not great off the tee. He was lights out on Sunday until the 18th when he hit the ball off the tree. And that obviously cost him any chance. I thought Fowler showed you something. He closed. But I think Fowler always plays

better when he's chasing somebody and where people can forget him. When he has pressure on him, he doesn't seem to play well. He was in a perfect spot on Sunday to make a big run because no one was watching him. And then I don't know if he can lead and win, but I think he can come from behind and win, and I think he'll win soon.

He's the next one that has to win a major. I think he will, and he's very popular. The amazing thing on Sunday to me was people didn't want Reed to win. I mean, even the people there, they were rooting more for Rory than they were rooting for Reed. People just don't like Reed. I was going to ask you, where does he rank for you

against Ivan Lendl and Larry Holmes and some of the other... The crowd just doesn't want the guy to win champions. When he came to 18, it was like no one wanted to cheer. It was amazing. We know they were rooting for Ricky. We know they were rooting for Spieth. They love those guys.

They were rooting more for Rory and Rory had a really bad Sunday again. That was the second time there. Now, because Rory can't putt. Bottom line is, we know Rory gets red hot, but he's not a great putter. And when he didn't make that eagle putt on two, it changed his whole round. If he had made that eagle putt, he would have been off to the races. He didn't do it.

His putter lets him down all the time. And that's a problem for Rory. That keeps Rory from being really great, is he's do it. His putter lets him down all the time. And that's a problem for Roy. That keeps Roy from being really great, is he's just not a good putter. Who's your number one least likable, just from the fan standpoint, champion? Is it Lendl? I feel like Lendl kind of killed tennis in the mid-80s to some degree. Yeah, but he was

boring. I think he was boring. I just don't like guys who are boring at all. I think you want guys with press. People love Mickelson. He's got personality. You can win with him. You can lose with him. Even when he crashes and burns, it's interesting.

That's what you want. You want dominance, like you said, or true greatness. Otherwise, you want interest. You want something that's interesting. You want personality. And that's what you get from Mickelson. But it was good. It wasn't an unbelievable finish.

It would have been if Spieth had continued along. Yeah, he needed one more birdie. And really finished 18 the same way. It would have been fun to watch. But give Reid credit. Reid, you know, went out there, and he stayed on the lead for two days. He took off every challenge, and he did a good job. You've got to give him credit.

I know people don't like him, and he's only before this done well at the Ryder Cup, but he played well. He really did. What's interesting is he does have a personality. He Cup, but he played well. He really did. What's interesting is he does have a personality. He doesn't fit the normal profile. He's cocky. I guess they don't like his private life, which I could care less about. I mean, stuff like that.

I mean, I don't care about that. And I don't even care if he's cocky. What do I care? I don't mind if he wants to talk. Go ahead, talk. He produced. He won the Masters. Good fam.

Yeah, I hope he embraces it. Let's go backwards, because I haven't talked to you in a couple months. The Yankees, I mean, and the Yankees are off to now, let's be official, this is now an officially slow start. I mean, it was bad for a couple of days. They have some injuries. It's been brutally cold, as we know, but it's also been brutally cold in Boston.

So let's not use that as an excuse, nor the injuries as an excuse. Yankees got a lot of players playing lousy. Their bullpen's been terrible. It's supposed to be all world. You know, Stanton has been striking out. You know, I was at one game. He struck out five times. He also struck out five times that day

and left Neumann on base. Sanchez, you know, no one's talking about it. He's two for 36. I mean, so, and their bullpen's been horrid. It's just a bad start. And the Red Sox are playing lights out. And Betts is back to being Betts. Last year, he had a terrible year.

Two years ago, he was great. He looks great again. I love Betts as a player. Love him. And right now, I love Ben Attendee, too. What a beautiful swing. It's going to be a fun summer. I hope they get out to a lead and let the Yankees dig in and go chase them.

It's a very good Red Sox team. And Bogarts, who was looking like an MVP candidate, unfortunately got hurt. But, you know, they added he was hurt all last year. His wrist was messed up, and he just couldn't get it going. And now he's back. And then they added J.D. Martinez. And now you have a full year of Devers, Benintende in year two. And the offense just feels top to bottom, just really good.

And they have three starters and a closer. Is Price going to be good, or is Price going to be gaggable like he usually is? The Yankees usually own Price. Let's see what Price does. Price has been an absolute failure for the money he gets. Let's be honest. It's time for Price to show up. Good in the playoffs, and he's had two really good starts,

and I am bizarrely confident in Price. I can't explain it, but I agree with you. Yankees own him, though. It's interesting to see because they do own him. He needs to... Yankees own him, though. It's interesting to see because they do own him. He needs to go out tonight and be like, actually, you don't own me. Watch this. I'm going to throw seven innings. I think it's a really good Red Sox team. My questions

with the Yankees were starting pitching and just standing in a big city with attention on him and the first time he goes two for 20, everybody writing about it all the time. How is he going to handle that? And it does look like it has the makings of a year from hell for them.

Because in baseball, it's weird. I don't think that will happen. I think there's a couple of things. One, they have too much talent. Two, they have too much young talent. And here's what they have. They have the ability to go get any pitcher they want. True. They have so much in the farm system that people want.

They have so many players in this farm system that people are drooling over. They can go get any pitcher they want in the pennant race. They can't rely on CeCe Sabathia. And you don't even know about Montgomery yet. Tanaka will be okay, although he's not durable. Severino's a real deal. He's a real pitcher. But they're going to need a pitcher. There's no question. But they can get him. They can get him later in the season and they'll be okay. Listen, they have guys that aren't even here yet that could have big seasons like Labatoris

could still come up and have a big year this year. They have plenty of players. This team will be fine. Listen, I think it'll be a good summer. I think they'll run and they'll let the Red Sox get out fast, let the Yankees go chase them. Well, summer will be fun. I like summers like that and the Yankees will be fun. I'm really excited about this American League.

There's ebbs and flows season to season with the leagues, and the American League, you have this Yankees-Red Sox thing, I think is just going to be great. I think both teams will be in the mid-90s. Nothing better than the Yankees-Red Sox. But then on top of that, we have this Astros team that looks like one of – they look like the 75 Big Red Machine combined with awesome pitching and a team that can really win 120 games conceivably. And then on top of that, Otani, who is unlike any baseball player we've had in literally 100 years and almost pitched a perfect game on Sunday, already has three homers.

And we did a Ringer MLB show podcast yesterday trying to figure out if he was the MVP this season, what would his stats have to look like? Like, what if he went 15 and six and had 200 strikeouts and 170 innings, but also had 25 homers and 85 at bats and good splits? Like, we've just never seen anything like this. Have you been excited by him? Well, here's the thing that's funny about it. First of all, the Astros, their bullpen,

which was absolutely comical last year, and they had to use starters to win it. I mean, they used starters and a brilliant performance by Verlander to win it. They didn't even touch their bullpen. They didn't even use their bullpen. I mean, it was so bad. So that would concern me.

They have a great lineup, as we know. Great lineup. And guys in their prime, too, from that standpoint. And they will win their division easy. Number two about Otani, the Yankees coveted Otani. They were furious. Furious about the way he blew them off. Absolutely, they were incensed by it.

They wanted him in the worst way. Now, after that, all you heard in spring training, and I was down in spring training, all you heard was what a bust he was. I mean, you heard guys saying, we thought he was the greatest. And all of a sudden, Kershaw made him look bad. They were embarrassed by him. They thought they should really start him in the minors.

And then all of a sudden, the season starts, and here he goes again. Now he's Babe Ruth again. So, I mean, here you heard about how great he was. Then he heard in spring training that he was embarrassing. He hadn't had a hit. Then the season starts. He's had three home runs. He pitched great. So, I can't wait until late May he comes here. I can't wait to see him. I really, I like

to reserve an opinion until I see a guy. So, I mean, I'd really like to see just how good he is. I hope he plays when he comes to New York. I hope he plays and I hope he pitches and I hope he plays so I can get a look at him. So I think it's great. You know, he's playing with the best player in baseball in Trout, who clearly is.

So it's a fascinating thing. I mean, the Angels have to rely on some young pitching that we'll see if it can perform over a long period of time. But just having those two guys on one team could be so much fun. And the use of him is, you know, it's comical. I mean, how are you going to play him with his talents? We've never seen something like this. I mean, you know, so it's going to be fascinating to watch. It really is going to be very big.

The one thing about him, though, he's buried. You know, you don't see him enough. You know, their games are too late. The East doesn't respond to it. So that's what's hurt Trout. Trout's almost an invisible player a lot of the time. Otani can be an invisible player, too, out there. It's Herc Kershaw, too.

West Coast guys get hurt by not ever being part of the East Coast machine in baseball. So I'm torn on this because I do think if he had gone to the Yankees, everything that's happening right now would be magnified by 20. It would really be all anyone's talking about. He's at the worst place he could be for publicity. Yeah. Well, on the other hand, the Yankees get enough publicity anyway and I think they're fun to watch and compelling

enough as it is. You look at him on the Angels, a team, I've been at it for 15 years. When I came out here, they won the World Series and there was some Angels momentum for a couple years and then it died. Trout's been here pretty much the whole decade and he's been the best player in baseball by far and then it died. And Trout's been here pretty much the whole decade. And he's been the

best player in baseball by far. And nobody really cares. He is not one of the biggest stars even in LA, much less the country. And one of the things that makes him special is also the thing when you go to games, he's so subtly good at so many things. It's almost, it's almost like an Oscar Robertson type thing where he's just great, but he doesn't really jump off the field very much. Whereas like Otani, you know, you watch those highlights of the perfect game and it's just like, just really compelling.

Well, he came in and played the Mets last year. And I took my son to two or three games. Cause my youngest one, Harrison is a huge trout fan. He loves trout. He's a trout freak. So,

uh, and now he's already begging me for a Tani jersey. I know Tani now is wearing number 17. I know that already because he already asked me to look up the jersey for him. The point is, though, Trout put on a show at Citi Field that was just unbelievable. I mean, just amazing over a couple of days how good he was. It was just mind-boggling if you watched him with what he did. And the Angels, you know, they beat on the Mets a couple of games. And they killed him

on Sunday. And Trout, you know, hit two home runs and put on a show. And we know how good he is. And Trout will stay there unless somehow he can find a way to go to the Phillies because that's where he wants to go. You know, he's a freak about going back to Philadelphia. That's the only place he'd ever go. But I think he'll stay put. But you're right. And I do think the

Itani thing, if he was in the East, if he was not just on the Yankees, if he was on the Red Sox, if he was in the East where he could be part of the machine and you get to see him, it would be a different thing. You just don't see the guys on the West Coast very rarely, and if you're bad on the West Coast and you're not on a dominant team, you could get lost as far as that goes. The exploits, no one gets to see the exploits.

They don't see the highlights. They don't see the games live. So that really hurts. So from that standpoint, but he is such an unusual talent that is getting so much play. He's actually here, I believe,

top of my head, it's Memorial Day weekend, he's here. And it'll get a tremendous amount of attention. I think I'm old enough to remember when Valenzuela, Fernando Mania took off and things like that. I remember when it was like that.

I can think of guys that it really was that way for. Fernando was one. Vida Blue was two. Mark Fidrich was three. Oh, yeah, Fidrich. Those are ones where they came out of nowhere, and they were just freakish. Absolutely.

Fidrich was probably the most bizarre of all of them. But Vita Blue, I remember on an August day when the Yankees were terrible, Vita Blue filled Yankee Stadium and John Ellis hit a bases loaded double off of about 450 feet. Yankee Stadium going crazy because Vita Blue was almost considered to be unbeatable at the time.

And Fernando Mania. So you're right. Those three as an example of guys, they're usually pitchers that cause this because they can so dominate the game. But Otani now has both. He has his offense and that ability as a pitcher. So he could be a very rare, very unique. And I don't think it hurts in this day and age at all that he's not an American.

I don't think any of that even matters anymore. No, it doesn't. Guidry in 1978, I think, was like that. Pedro, even though he'd been around for a while, when he really ascended in 99 and 2000, it became a thing. And when he was in your city, people were going out. And I think Otani...

You know, Harvey had a little of that when he first started, too, you know? Yeah, a little bit. He knocked the whole Dark Knight thing for a little while. It didn't last very long. Right. But he was about to build that a little bit. Guidry had his goody year.

He's low-key. It was a very different Yankee team. It was a very good Yankee team and an ornery one. But he just was as good day in and day out as a pitcher can be. Guidry, as you said, in the 25-3 season, has the same thing. Jesus, we forgot about it. It'll be interesting with Otani if he's going to play a lot on the other days

is going to be the issue. We forgot about good in the 85. I think that's a great example. That was really the first time I can remember, even it wasn't my team, just being like, I got to watch this guy pitch. He's on tonight, Wednesday night.

He might strike out 20-10. We got to talk about NBA. Yeah, we're ready. Hey, we're going to talk about the NBA playoffs. I want to take a quick break to talk about Gillette. I've been shaving since college. I haven't been shaving lately. I have this scraggly beard right now,

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Visit Gillette online at gilletteondemand.com. Okay, it's about to get heated. NBA playoffs with Mike Francesco right now. It's such a bizarre year. I was thinking about that because I was just thinking about the playoffs with the season ended today. Obviously, I think of you when I think of the NBA. It's such a bizarre year. I'll start with these things. There are three teams that you're going to go in and say, how good are these teams? How good is Houston, number one? How good is Philly, which is amazing to even get out of your mouth?

And how good is Utah? So I don't think there's any difference between being number three in the West and being number eight at all. I think they're all equal. I think that I'll still pick Cleveland with the Boston injuries. I'll still pick Cleveland in the East because LeBron has had a year that if they don't give him the MVP, they shouldn't even name one. That's how good he's been. And he's played the most minutes.

He's been the best player by far. And he's dedicated himself this year. He hasn't missed a game. To me, give it to LeBron. Wait, hold on. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait, I can't let this LeBron thing pass.

You don't want to give him the MVP? No, I'm not even voting for him in the top two. Oh, come on. He's a DH. He does everything. No, he doesn't do everything. He doesn't play defense at all. Yeah, wait, wait.

You're going to compare that? What MVP candidate are you going to put out of your mouth that doesn't play? He plays less defense than LeBron James. First of all. You're going to tell me Harden plays defense? I play, he plays less defense than LeBron James? First of all, if you can tell me Harden plays defense, I think he tries a lot harder than LeBron, but come on now. I do this year.

I think, I think LeBron is, LeBron has been a DH this year. LeBron's not the defensive player he once was. He has to rest on that end of the court, but he's still in his dream. He does more than rest. He plays more defense than Harden ever played.

No, yeah, Harden, Harden has tried harder defensively this year. No, I'm telling No, Harden has tried harder defensively this year. No, I'm telling you, Harden has tried harder on defense. Listen, the fact that you might even try to tell me he's even a little bit interested in defense. He is.

I'm going to have a hard time with the guys. This year, he's worked a lot harder on defense this year. But more importantly, he's the best player on a team that is by far the best team, and he's having a transcendent season. Where would Cleveland be without LeBron James this year? Where would the Rockets be without Harden? They have other good players. No, they have Chris Paul as their one really good player.

They have a couple of shooters. They have a lot of sneaky players that can play. You can't compare Harden. You're trying to tell me you compare Harden's game to LeBron James' game? Oh, absolutely. This year. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no.

And when does Harden have to step up and do it when it's real? Well, that's a different question. I'm just judging by the regular season. That's part of LeBron's credibility is you know it's real. It's a regular season award for 82 games. Yeah, but I still this year. And listen, to me, he's still so much the best player, it's not even worth discussing.

First of all, well, you're right. He's probably the best offensive player when he wants to be. But Harden has been, Harden's having one of the great guard seasons

in the history of the league. Yeah, but you know what? They're meaningless statistics. They really are. Let's be honest. What are you talking about? What do I care what Harden's doing in the fourth quarter of a game

they're winning 120 to 85. First of all, he's scoring more points than LeBron is. He has, I think, the same number of assists, and LeBron's getting, I don't know, three more rebounds. And Harden's percentages are much better, and Harden's team is way better. You want to start the playoffs.

Which player are you starting the playoffs with? This season? Yeah. You're telling me right now I let you draft players you're drafting Harden over LeBron in the playoffs? Well, who else is on my team? What kind of team

am I drafting for? I'm letting you draft players to start to win a championship this year. Which is your first player out of the box? But that's a different argument. No, it's not.

That's your MVP. No, that's your playoff MVP. LeBron played this year. He played all the games. He played all the games but he didn't play defense. Their team gave up 120 points a game

his whole life the man rebounds like a monster and he does whatever that team needs him to do whenever this year listen

he should have been the MVP every year in the last 8 years he should have been the MVP every year every year I don't know about that he's that much better than

Curry's 2015 was crazy when he had to dedicate himself to push this team they should give it to him. I think they get to a point where they decide, we're not giving LeBron any more regular season MVPs. No, stop it.

First of all, you act like he's carrying the Washington Generals. They have the second highest payroll in the entire league, and most of the guys were picked by him. Yeah, that's his fault. That should be part of his MVP campaign. He picked all these dudes. Without him, they've been a terrible team this year. Let me ask you something.

Who do you think is responsible for them having to pay Tristan Thompson $19 million a year? Wait a second. Who do you think is responsible for that? He was a good general manager. But that's part of this. I'm talking about a general manager award here. It's the most valuable player. James Harden isn't like, hey, let's spend $20 million on my buddy who's represented by my other buddy.

I'm trying to save you something here. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to remember this and then you're going to watch LeBron play as you know brilliantly in the playoffs and Harden stink again in the playoffs and then you're going to say, boy, I embarrassed myself with this. Or I'm going to watch LeBron on

basically being dealt a bad hand with this team that he helped build. Yeah, but when have you ever seen him not play brilliantly in the playoffs? How about the four times over the course of his career where he quit as the season went on? Oh, no way. You've got to go back many, many. No, I don't have to go back many times. You can't have an argument with these two players. It's a silly argument. Come on now. We can't waste our time with this one. Come on now.

In 2010, he had a bad hand. Well, wait a second. And he folded in the last two games. That's a fact. You're going to try and tell me that you would start the playoffs with Harden rather than LeBron as a player? And you're going to tell me you're a basketball man and you want to make that decision? I don't, but that's not the criteria for the regular season.

But that's not the criteria for the regular season MVP. Well, listen, we all know they're not going to give it to him because they stopped giving it to him long ago, but this year he actually deserved it. That's my point. So give it to Harden. Let's watch him stink again and run away from the ball in the fourth quarter of a playoff game.

I just want to point out Harden wins 66 games and I don't even know if LeBron's going to get to 50. Harden's MVP case is unassailable. It's never been. Golden State took the second half of the season off. I would put Davis over LeBron too. And Golden State took the second half of the season off. I would put Davis over LeBron too.

And Golden State took the second half of the season off. Well, but they're not part of this conversation. Forget this. We're not going to agree, but I'm trying to help you from being embarrassed when Harden sticks again in the playoffs. I'm trying to help you with Harden. So answer my other question.

Is Houston real this year, or is this another D'Antoni-Harden flameout? When Harden is the unanimous MVP, I'm not the one who's going to be embarrassed with this one. I'm just telling you. Is Houston real this year, or is this another D'Antoni-Harden flame-out? When Harden is the unanimous MVP, I'm not the one who's going to be embarrassed with this one. Yeah, you're the only guy who's going to be embarrassed. Yes, you are, because in the playoffs, you're going to watch, and Harden's going to stink again. And just because they gave him, because they won the games during the regular season, it's a mindless exercise. Oh, they won 65 or 66 games, so he gets the MVP. And then you're watching the playoffs as he does absolutely nothing.

Okay? But here's the thing. Answer the question. Is this another D'Antoni Harden flame out? So the big question with this Rockets team is they look like they are by far the favorite right now to win the title. They have been rolling through teams. They've been up by 20 almost all the season. Golden State

carries out for round one. Golden State doesn't look like they have the fire right now. Everything is lined up perfectly for Houston. The East is a mess. Philly is now looking like an actual potential finals team because Cleveland's such a mess. Boston's lined up. So are you picking Houston

to win the championship? Oh, I think they're the prohibitive favorite and I have no idea if they're actually going to win the championship? Oh, I think they're the prohibitive favorite, and I have no idea if they're actually going to win because, as you mentioned, we haven't seen Harden do it for four rounds. Chris Paul has had his own issues in the playoffs and seems to wear down as they go along. They're really going to have to manage his minutes.

And D'Antoni has had issues in the playoffs. So that's why I asked you the question that I want you to answer. Is this the year for Houston, or is it another disappointment? I think this is the year for Houston, and if it's not, then it's never going to happen. It'll never be the year for Houston.

Yeah, it'll never be the year for Houston unless it's this year. Then the second question is, is Philly for real? Philly is absolutely 100% for real. And here's why. Are you talking about finals real? Because of the conference, yeah. Cleveland's a mess.

Nobody has ever made... I agree, Cleveland. Listen, Cleveland's only going to get to the finals because it's going to be on the back of the one guy who knows what to do in the playoffs. That's the only way. If he doesn't have a Herculean playoffs, they're not going to get to the finals.

The problem with LeBron right now, and he's been incredible offensively the last couple of months, he can put up 40, 10 and 10 in these games and they still lose by seven. I agree. Listen, they've had to go through the regular season and play this way. We know that, and it's been a terrible season. And from a GM standpoint, it's been a disaster. I totally agree with you on that. And it's made him have to work this hard, which he probably didn't want to do either. But he did. Here's the thing, though.

You now believe, now Boston would have been the, I actually think that if you gave me a full tilt Boston roster, this is the year they're going to beat LeBron. No question. But there was a chance. Now I don't think so. No, not happening.

The thing that Philly has. I still don't chance. Now I don't think so. No, not happening. The thing that Philly has... Toronto, I still don't believe in. I don't think Toronto will ever... I think if they see... If they ever see LeBron, they won't know what to do with it. He'll intimidate those guys off the floor. That's the thing about Philly. Could Philly

ever win a stare down with him in a long series? Toronto's problem is LeBron owns them. And they had a chance three or four weeks ago. Owns them mentally and physically. They don't have anyone who can guard them. And anybody they put out who actually has a chance to maybe slow them down

a little bit is a zero offensively. And he can just do whatever he wants. And he knows it. And they know it. He's got them mentally and physically. So the question is, is Philly, can they, are they ready

with their youth? The first go around, are they going to be ready to do this the first go around? So the history of the NBA would say young guys in the playoffs,

no. Right. The counter would be they have two of the best 15 guys in the league. Like I'm voting Simmons and Embiid for my all-NBA team counter would be they have two of the best 15 guys in the league. I'm voting Simmons and Embiid for my NBA team. Simmons, their team, Embiid's

second team. Simmons is a terrific player. Simmons has gone up a level the last six weeks. The athleticism, the pace, his confidence is really crazy. I thought I don't love to overreact to this stuff, but what he did

in that Cleveland game with the fact that he was just completely unafraid of LeBron and dunking and staring at LeBron after like that doesn't happen normally like nobody in Toronto would do that. I really believe he's the real deal I agree with you I think he's been incredibly impressive and hasn't gotten enough attention

It's happening now he is getting enough attention now but But the other thing is... But I still think Cleveland is going to get out of the East because of what we just discussed. Toronto's never going to beat them. Boston's not equipped with the injuries. I think it's too much to ask of

Philly, and there's nothing else. You know, to get the back half, to get Washington, Miami, Indiana, Milwaukee, to get it. Miami, Indiana, Milwaukee to get it. You're looking at LeBron or you're telling me this young Philly's ready to first go around to go to the finals. I don't buy it, so I still think Cleveland's

going to limp into the finals. One thing about Philly that I think warrants mentioning, because I agree with you. They're best two players. Simmons has been in the league one year. Embiid hasn't even played 100 career games. But Bellinelli has been huge, and a guy who has played in the league one year. Embiid hasn't even played 100 career games. But Bellinelli has been huge and a guy who has played in a lot of big games. Redick is a guy who has been in big games for years and years, dating back to Duke. They do have guys that they can rely on. When they go Bellinelli, Redick, Simmons, Embiid, and Saric, who's a badass,

who was playing in the EuroLeague when he was like 17, that's not a team that's going to be young and afraid. Like those guys are all kind of overconfident. Simmons and Embiid act like they're two of the best five players in the league. It's great. I don't think they're going to be afraid. But they haven't been through this before. True.

And it's a very, to ask them to do it the first time is even against a Cleveland team that has the deficiencies that this team has but you know what having guys that have even been through this you know there'll be games where Smith will

show up, Korver will show up you know there'll be games where yeah there will because J.O. Smith's had games like that. He's been awful this season. He will have games like that. He'll have six threes in a half. He'll do those crazy things. Love, they need him, which you

know, but Clarkson, Green, Hood, you know, they can... There's enough there that with his brilliance, and enough time in between games for him to recuperate, he can, I think, squeak his way to the finals. Because of what we talked about, Philly's youth. I wouldn't say this about Philly next year.

And Toronto, forget it. Boston's injuries. I don't think there's anyone else there. I really don't. I have two responses. One on Cleveland. A team that has been as poorly coached as they've been and as bad defensively as they've been,

there's just no track record of them making the finals. It would have to be... But they have the best players. Well, that's what I mean. It would have to be the best seven-week stretch of LeBron's entire career. I think he would have to go... To get to the finals, it'll win it.

To get to the finals, I think he would have to go 40-10-10 every night. I don't know if they'll be... I don't think the first round... I don't think it'll be that tough where it's going to be to the finals. I think he would have to go 40-10-10 every night. I don't think it'll be that tough where it's going to be that taxing. Depends who they play. If they play Miami or they play Washington, I think they're in the 4 seed, but they could jump to 3 today. Indiana, I think,

would be a little easier for them. I think Indiana would be where they want to play in the first round. Going to Philly and the whole too young thing, we've seen this happen before. Indiana would be where they want to play in the first round. I think that's where they want to be in the first round. Going to Philly and the whole too young thing, we've seen this happen before. I think the 77 Blazers are a good example.

I'm going back 40 years. Yeah, but that team had, let's be honest, that team was perfectly built. It was brilliantly coached. And it had a guy who was... And it had a transcendent player. I'm with you. But what if Simmons is transcendent?

The guy played like an all-world player. He wasn't... And there was no such thing as a big game. The man had won two championships, an 80 game. In the rare moment the NBA saw him healthy, you know, that year, and the year after when he went 50-5

with him in the lineup before he got hurt again, he was one of the all-time great players. So that's not a fair... No, no, hold on. You had Tordzik and Steele. You had Gross and Holland. I know, but all those...

I mean, that team was a good team. But all those guys were really young and none of them had had any playoff experience. Not young in terms

he was green. The guy had played in the biggest games his whole life. So he was... There was no such thing as his being shrinking in a big game.

No, but everybody else on that team was young and the theory going in was that they were too young. was a tough guy who knew how to play in big games. True, but everybody else on that team was young, and the theory going in was that they were too young. Well, Maurice Lucas was a tough guy who knew how to play in big games. True, he was like 25, though. And you know, the amazing thing that you might remember,

I know you'll remember, fans might not remember, in that year, they're playing a best-of-three against the Bulls and Artis Gilmore, and Walton and Lucas had already fouled out of the game, and it was Lionel Hollins who hit three straight shots that actually propelled them to win game three

in a best-of-three series. Otherwise, they don't get out of the first round. And they almost lost, but it was Lionel Hollins that made the shots that actually propelled them through that first round.

But young team that people wrote off and then they made the finals. 86 Rockets. Yes, they did. But they were a very gifted team. Coached by Jack Ramsey. That's my point.

I think this Sixers team might be very gifted. I don't think they were on a level at all. It might be. We don't know. I think that's too much. 86 Rockets, another example. Remember that? Who?

86 Rockets. It's like, oh, yeah. Oh, the first time they made the playoffs. And then they beat the Lakers and made the finals. And nobody saw it coming. Listen, it'll be interesting. I'll tell you something. It's going to be a very new dynamic for the NBA.

The fact that we're even talking about the Sixers. Think about that. Talking about the Sixers. Talking about guys like Simmons and Embed who've never been discussed in NBA in this way before. And talking against them against LeBron James. And the other one I was thinking was the 07 Cavs with young

LeBron. Where everybody's like, oh, the Cavs. They're not going to do anything. And then all of a sudden they beat the Pistons and they're in the finals. Now, how disappointing if Houston doesn't make the finals? If they don't make the finals with the way it's set up for them right now, I just don't think they'll ever have a better chance than this.

What team of the bottom six teams, what team do you fear? If I'm Houston? For many things. Of the six teams past Houston and Golden State, which one of those teams? You know, Portland's had a good year. Utah had a great finish. You know the guys who are on Oklahoma State.

Obviously, we know teams that have had a good year and a bad year. Is there any team in the bottom six? And I don't think there's much difference between three and six in that group. No. Is there any team there that you fear? I think Portland, in the right matchup, could be really dangerous because of the way they shoot threes. And I think Utah has, for whatever reason, been a horrible matchup for Golden State. And if Utah clinches the three seed and gets Golden State

in round two and Curry's not healthy, and they know they can beat Golden State, they've beaten the crap out of them twice. That's a bad matchup for Golden State. I'm not saying they would lose, but that's dangerous. And Houston and Portland have had some wars this year. Portland loves playing Houston. They're like, oh, you're going to shoot threes? Watch this. We'll shoot more. And that's just going to come down to basic math. And somebody like Lillard is really hard for them to guard. I think Portland weirdly matches up

pretty well against Golden State and Houston. I don't know if they'll beat them, but those are probably my two watch out candidates. Tremendous amount of pressure on D'Antoni, Harden, and Poole because they're carrying so much baggage into the playoffs this year.

Yeah, I agree. Hold on. We're going to take one more break. Hey, when you run your own business, you know that time equals money. It's not just an old saying. It's a fact. So why waste your valuable time dealing with issues that LegalZoom can help with? Over 2 million people have used LegalZoom to start their businesses.

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That is LegalZoom.com. Before we get back to Mike, just wanted to mention again, the Andre the Giant documentary is available on HBO On Demand. HBO Go. HBO Now. Check it out. Alright, back to Mike. Before we go,

I still can't believe you think LeBron's the MVP. I didn't realize you were in the bag for him. I think he definitely is this year. The team won 50 games. Congratulations. He actually had to really expend a lot of energy. And listen, like I said, you could have given him the MVP every year.

He's been the best player every single year, all these years. And they decided years ago not to give it to him anymore. This year, he had to participate, and that's why I'd give it to him. But listen, I don't care if Harden gets it, and then Harden embarrasses himself again in the postseason, which is what we've watched every year. So let's see if we see it again. Like I said, there's a lot of baggage for Harden and for D'Antonio and Paul

who have never collectively done anything in the postseason. I agree. And I'll be fascinated to see if Golden State can scrap anything together. Their rotation is ridiculous because they have nothing on the second unit, and they continue to play that way, which never made any sense to me. Yeah. I don't have a lot of high hopes for them. So, I mean, listen,

they do have firepower. That's one thing. I don't understand what's happened to Golden State this year. And I've talked to a bunch of people that are involved with that team. And I don't know if they totally understand it either.

The lack of, they're acting like they've won six titles. And it's like they're the 98 Bulls limping to the finish line. Yeah, they're bored. All these guys are in their primes. They're actually bored. You know that? I think some of these guys are in their primes. They're actually bored. You know that?

I think some of their guys are bored already with winning and bored with, and that's a bad thing to do because it's very hard to keep winning. And one of the things you must do, I think is very important. I think it's important

whether you're talking about New England, whether you're talking about the Yankees in the late 90s, what the Yankees did every year was they energized the core by bringing a couple of guys in who were hungry, who had never won each year. And I think that's very important to do

because otherwise you don't want your core to get bored with winning ever. And teams can get bored with winning. And I think you got to energize your core by bringing guys in that at least are hungry and energize the rest of the group. First of all, Red Auerbach created that idea, not the Yankees. You can't take credit for that. I'm sorry. Well, the Yankees have had aize the rest of the group. First of all, Red Auerbach created that idea, not the Yankees.

You can't take credit for that. I'm sorry. Well, the Yankees have been very good at it through the years. As a Red Auerbach. Just give Red Auerbach some credit. The Yankees were as specific as your Celtics in history, so let's be honest about that. Just give Red Auerbach the right credit there. And their history predates the Celtics winning, so come on now.

Well, the Red Auerbach created the, let's bring a guy in and try to win ring from him. And I'm with you. And I think that's true. And I think that's something that the Yankees did a lot too. They brought guys in, veterans in, they'd bring a guy in, you know, late in the season each year, they'd bring a guy in, you know, from the other league, they'd bring a guy in and say, you know, let's bring this guy into the core and let him be the guy who wins this year.

And I think that's true. I think it's a great thing to do. And I think dynasties have done that. It's a very good thing to do. I actually thought that was... And I think Golden State might be a little bored. Well, I thought that was the flaw in what they did last summer.

They tried to keep the team together and they kept Livingston and they kept the Guadal for pretty big price tags. And it actually might've been a better idea to just bring in a couple, some new blood and some freshness. And maybe that would have invigorated them. I don't know.

They don't have an alpha dog in that team who is obsessed with, I don't care if it's our third game in four nights. We got to, come on guys, let's go. They don't really have a guy like that. They have a bunch of really good players who don't seem to care if

the team's not playing that well. They'll be like, we'll be fine. We'll get it back. We're the Warriors. That's really a dangerous game to play when you get in the playoffs. Let's go backwards. Go ahead. Last thing I want to talk about, just because we haven't talked since the Super Bowl,

Brady throws for 505. Nick Foles has an out of body experience. Doug Peterson just has a watermelon size set of balls. And one of the best coach offensive Superbowl is I can remember. And the Eagles steal one from the pats, but they really didn't because they beat the pats and they deserve to win. Um, what was your takeaway?

Is that the end of the pats? Not the end of the pats. Um, I think the pats are going through some stuff though. Uh, I think the Pats are going through some stuff, though. And I think it can get to a point where they give away or jettison too many good players at one time. I think it's a dangerous thing to do. They act like you don't need any of them. And I think you've got to be careful of that.

And I think they're running that risk. But that he would not punt, that he would not turn the ball over in the first 55 minutes, and that his quarterback would throw for 500 yards and he would lose, I don't think he would think that it was humanly possible. I think Philly understood from the beginning that they couldn't stop them. They knew they couldn't stop them. They played the game as if they couldn't stop them, and they had a mentality, which you have to give the Eagle coaching staff and brain trust

tremendous credit for they knew what they had to do to win the game and i fervently fervently believe that if brady had not turned the ball over when he did the pats would have won the game i have not a doubt i have not a scintilla doubt in my mind that that would happen. But, you know, that's the way it goes. They made the play they had to make. It was a bizarre game in terms of how ineffective the defenses were. And the thing that's insane, though, about that game is what Belichick did in his secondary and the risks he took to make a point to the point where they were still coaching those other kids, my understanding, very late in the week to learn the coverages and took out a player who was a mainstay for exactly what reason, I still don't know. So I find the whole thing extremely puzzling.

It's almost like biting off your nose to spite your face. And I just, I still to this moment don't understand that. But I think if you dwell on that, you take away from the Eagles' victory. And I think as you said, very rightly so, as a Pat fan, they earned it. They did earn it. They beat them at their offensive best. They beat them at their offensive game. But I still don't understand the deployment. And let's be honest, the people that Belichick put in to replace what was a

mainstay of his defense got torched in that game. Yeah. He, it, Butler wasn't great this year, but he certainly was better than the guys that were in there. I absolutely. Plus they didn't seem like they knew what they were playing either. So it was such a, it's almost like it's an unsolved mystery, but there seemed to be a lot of unsolved mysteries around that team right now, going back all the way back to the quarterback situation and the trade with the Niners. Yeah. And too many of those lead you down the wrong path.

The more I look back at that game and get pissed off about it, the thing that makes me the maddest is that they let the Eagles have that long fourth quarter drive and that they didn't turn it into a, we're just going to blitz you. And if you score, at least we get the ball back. The worst possible thing,

and the only thing that could have lost the game for them was exactly what happened. This eight and a half minute drive where now Brady gets the ball back with 2.22 left. And I'm with you. I thought he was going to win the game. It turned out that was probably one of three plays in his career that I think when he's 75 and he's living in Costa Rica with his still beautiful wife,

he'll be thinking about three plays over the course of his career. One was 2006, Indianapolis. The third and three were him and Troy Brown. All he had to do was complete a third and three to Troy Brown, and they win the Super Bowl that year. And it didn't happen. The Welker pass in the second Giants game, which I thought he overthrew Welker. I was there. I think that would have been an impossible catch for Welker. The pass wasn't there. And then the third play was him getting stripped on that thing, which I don't even think was his fault. He had a guy who was wide open, 25 yards down the field.

His eyes lit up. He was going to throw it, and he didn't realize that his whole right side of the line had collapsed. And just guy makes an awesome play, gets his hand on the ball. There was really no way to avoid it. But I'm sure Brady is going to spend the whole offseason going, what could I have done differently? What should I have done? Should I have known this was going to happen? I think

it was just a chain of events. He saw this guy, his eyes got wide, and in that split second, he kind of forgot about the right side of the line, and that guy got in, and that was the entire game. They would have had the ball in the next 50. And I'm sure Belichick's been a lot of it wondering about what happened to his defense, but if he wants to wonder, he's got

to look in the mirror and wonder exactly why he pulled the plug on a guy who was number two in the team in terms of plays that were played this year. He doesn't see the field. I just don't understand it. It's a puzzle. But with that said, though... Again, it was a fun game, and Foles

performed brilliantly. I mean, let's be honest, they did. With that said, the front seven on the Patriots was appallingly bad, and probably did not deserve to be the front seven on a Super Bowl team. It was just atrocious. Absolutely atrocious. Hats off to the Eagles. Do you think, I mean, your favorite team is in their division.

Do you feel like this is the start of a nice little four-year run, a little along the lines of what the Seahawks had with Legion of Boom? You think this is a one-and-done? No, I don't feel that at all. Listen, I think football has become, for most teams, incredibly idiotic. Incredibly idiotic. But I think that gap can be closed very quickly. I think they'll be competitive.

I think there will be a threat. I do think you're going to see some changing of the guard, and I think things are going to break enormously quickly for the Niners, who are going to make a very quick leap. And the Rams and the Niners are going to be very big in the NFL in the next five years. Last question. I know you have opinions

on this. I mean, hopefully your opinion hasn't been too devalued during this podcast with your LeBron MVP campaign. But we're going to try to move on. How can you even argue hard in LeBron? Congratulations. But we're going to try to move on. How can you even argue Harden and LeBron? Congratulations. Oh, he won 50 games. Let's give him the MVP. That's almost comical. Oh my lord.

Let's give it to him. You know better than that. I didn't want to see you exposed in the playoffs when Harden does his usual exit stage left. I didn't. Are you with CAA or Clutch? I can't remember. Which is your agency? Are you with Rich Paul and LeBron, his agency? No, no, no. I have nothing to do with LeBron. LeBron, no, he doesn't have any.

Listen, I've never been with an agency. I just have a new business relationship with CAA, but they're not LeBron, no. And I just have a new relationship with them that I'm working on, but that has nothing to do with LeBron being the MVP. I think he should have been the MVP every year in the last 10 years, to be honest with you. All right. This is a very important question. Rank the quarterbacks for me.

Your team's picking second. The team that you've made fun of the most over the years on your show, the New York Jets, is picking third. Cleveland Browns, the least successful franchise. I'm ranking them for me, not the way I think they're going to be picked. No, do both. I want ranking you for you and then do for the pick. I'm not ready to do that

as far as my preference. I have said all along, and anyone listening to my show knows this, that I said for two years that when Donald came out, he would be the number one pick in the draft. I am a big Donald fan. He was always my number one quarterback of the group. Allen's transitioned quickly.

I know he has a great arm. I think it's very close with the other two quarterbacks. So I think it's Donald's one, and I think it's very close with Rosen and Allen, and to me, the absolute wild card, and I think it's a wild card in terms of every facet of the game, on the field and off the field, is obviously the Oklahoma quarterback. What he does is really going to make someone look very good or very bad.

He's going to be a high draft pick, And I think he's one of those quarterbacks that can either launch you on a very good career or finish you as an executive. He has got that, I think, that real risk reward and could either be good or really bad as a performer and as a person. So I think he is the real X factor. And I think he's also a hard kid to really make a decision on. There are people I know who love him and people I know who can't stand him. Same thing with Allen. Some people think Allen's just incredibly inaccurate. Some people think he's going to be wonderful.

I think Rosen is a solid guy. I don't love him. The only quarterback of the four that I personally think is one that is can't miss is Sam Donald. I think Donald will be a big-time quarterback. He's the only one that if I was at the top, the only one I would be supremely confident about. So let's say Sam Donald goes one. Who do you want the Giants to take it to?

I think the Giants will not take a quarterback at two. I think they will try to trade out of the pick, and I think they would be very content if they wound up with the guard without any question. I think there's three players who are very high on the board, and I'll tell you, I think they'd be very happy to trade down. I know they love Donald. I've heard that from people I trust, but then I think Cleveland's going to take Donald. I think everyone thinks Cleveland's going to take Donald. It'll be a shock if they don't. Then I think the Giants won't take the quarterback.

I think they could trade down, although I don't ever predict that someone will trade down. If they pick in that spot, I think it'll be very difficult for them to justify that they're going to take a guard number two. That's why I think they'd like to trade down. Then I think you're looking at them making a decision between the pass rusher and the running

back. I don't like to take running backs that high. I don't believe in running backs at that level. I don't really. I prefer to take a pass rusher at that level, although he doesn't fit the system exactly the way the Giants. But I'm hearing want to play it. So that makes that a little tricky. I don't think the Giants will take a quarterback there. I really don't, unless it's Donald.

And I do think they could trade out of it. The Jets will definitely take a quarterback, and I'm telling you right now, sitting here right this minute, I do not know who the Jets are drafting. I know a lot of people, I've heard people say they guarantee two different players that the Jets are drafting. I personally don't know who the Jets are drafting. Three, I admit that. And I think the other quarterbacks, to me, are very close.

Very close. I have some things I like about them, some things I don't love about them. I'm a Donald guy. I have been from the beginning. I've never waived on that. I would take him. I think he's the best of the group by a solid margin. And I have a couple of players that I love.

I think there's a couple of running backs who are close to Barkley. I think there are three really good running backs in this draft. The other two are a lot closer to Barkley. I think there are three really good running backs in this draft. The other two are a lot closer to Barkley than people think. And I also think there's a couple of wonderful players in this draft including a tight end who will dominate the game

the way your tight end has dominated in New England. I think there's another one coming. Who is it? You're not going to tell us? I'm going to have to do homework. His name is Gusecki. He's a wonderful player. Let me ask you this. Absolutely wonderful player. You think the Giants can trade down, but if you actually go through the top

10, the only logical trade down partner is the Broncos at five. So do you think the Giants could flip picks with the Broncos and get something? The Broncos would move up? Absolutely. I think Elway is fixated on another quarterback. I think that could definitely happen, and I think the Giants would be very happy to go to five and take

the guard and be thrilled with the player. I think they would be very, very happy with that, and some more premium picks. I think they'd be very happy with that. Can I ask you, I have short questions. If Tampa calls and offers you Jameis for number two, do you do it?

If Tampa called and offered you Jameis for number two do you do it if Tampa called and offered me Jameis for the second pick Jameis Winston I wouldn't do it if I'm the Giants yeah no I wouldn't do that right now no what if they offered Jameis and the seven for

Giants number two and the Giants second and third picks? I think the Giants are very content to play with Eli for a couple more years, so I don't think that's going to happen. I don't see the Giants doing that right now. So you think they want to stash a young dude to put under Eli? I think the Giants have decided they want to be – I don't think the Beckham thing was ever real that they were going to trade him.

I don't think it was ever that far along like thing was ever real that they were going to trade him. I don't think it was ever that far along like people were making it that they were going to trade him. I think the Giants feel they can be competitive this year. I think they feel they can rebuild the summer defensive line and be competitive this year. Especially if they go from two to five and pick up some other stuff. I thought it was funny...

Absolutely. I think they can be, and I think they realize... I think they still believe they can get years out of Eli. I still think Eli can play at a high level for a couple more years. I firmly believe that. But I still, if Donald was available, too, if Cleveland blinks and I'm the Giants,

if it's me, I am absolutely, 100%, changing my face about it completely and taking Donald at two. So if Cleveland takes Josh Allen one, which has been heavily rumored, Donald at two, if I'm the giants and I think the giants would. Okay. But I don't think that will happen.

I think Donald will go to Cleveland on number one on the first pick. But remember, I know everyone thinks the Browns are going to do something screwy. And, and listen, if the Browns took another quarterback, they have to prove it's screwy. They could be right.

And we could be wrong about a quarterback. That's happened many times in history. But I feel that the quarterback that I feel confident with going forward for the next decade is Donald, myself. I've been behind him from the beginning. I think he's going to be the real deal, and that's the quarterback I want. If he's on the board at two, I want the Giants to take him. What is your success-failure rate over the years when you go all-in with a quarterback from college? Are you like

75%, 80%? I've been pretty good, as a matter of fact. I usually don't like a lot of quarterbacks. I'll tell you something. I got in arguments with guys. I don't want to say who, but I had arguments with guys who liked RG3 better than Luck. And I thought Luck was the best quarterback to come out in 10 years.

I think Luck can be one of the great players of all time. I have been on record as that. And now I'm very worried about his career now. Me too. And I don't know if he's even a little bit healthy right now. I haven't seen even a signal that he's a little bit healthy. But I think he was on the verge of being one of the great players of all time. Before we go, people miss you.

What's going on? Can you tell us anything? I can't yet. But I would say we're moving in the right direction. You know, some things just take a little while for them to come together, but we're working on it. How about you? Anything new? Summer?

September? What are you thinking? Before football? No, I'd say before. I'd say before. Before the summer or before football? I'd say before the summer solstice. Absolutely.

Oh, wow. Absolutely. This is soon. I'd say before. I'd actually say maybe before. I'd say well before that. Well, you'll have something to talk about when Stanton is sitting 195 with 130 strikeouts at the end of May.

He'll have some fodder. I love how you love to hate. That's what I love. See, you get one game under your belt in Boston. You love how you love to hate. That's what I love. I love, I love. So you get one game under your belt in Boston. Yeah. You get one game. Feeling good. I'm feeling good.

Where everything goes right. Where Ben Attendee gets a couple of line drives and Betts puts one up in the porch and everybody's happy with the world. You got to go to Price tonight. And you know, Price, he's a Yankee uniform. And usually,

you know, he melts on the mound. I'm a little concerned. Like the Wicked Witch. You know, he usually does. I'm a little concerned. Well, you say I love to hate.

You completely crapped on James Harden who had one of the greatest guard seasons of all time and won 66 games. Can I see Harden do it when it counts one time before we put him on the level with LeBron James? I think that's a very fair request.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the regular season. Still, listen, if you're just going to base it on who wins the most games, well then you have the reward hands down. If you're going to tell me what guy, if I subtract them, the team would have been absolutely

destroyed or could not have performed anywhere near at the same level, then it's LeBron. Or it's Anthony Davis. Excuse me? Anthony Davis. Very close. It would have been number two for me.

He's rising up my all-time ladder. The problem is the limitations now on a guy who plays that position are so extreme now in basketball that they're almost unfair. Yeah. plays that position are so extreme now in basketball that they're almost unfair yeah you know it can be minimized and it's it's almost unfair that the game has gone to such lengths i mean look at how villanova played and you know i loved villanova i thought they were going to win i picked them to win i i'm biased too i have to admit i'm close to the coach but i knew i hadn't seen a team that could shoot the three at so many different positions, including their bigs,

that they were going to be impossible to defend. And no one even came close to defending them in the tournament. Not even close. And they basically copied the way Golden State played.

They had six guys who could all shoot threes. It was cool. They had the ball well and they had six guys. And even their guys, like Paschal and Spellman, could step out and shoot threes.

Yeah, Loyola Chicago even had the way less talented version of that same kind of offense. Yeah, they did until they couldn't play Wagner. They couldn't play him.

And Wagner's going to have a good NBA career. He's going to be a good NBA player. Oh, wow. A Wagner recommendation. Yes, because he's going to be able to step out

and make a three and he's going to be a very useful player in the pros. He absolutely will. It was great to talk to you. I will hopefully talk to you soon. Good luck with whatever the new mystery venture is.

Thank you. Be well. Okay. Bye-bye. All right. We're going to talk to Alyssa Bearsnack about Facebook and everything going on there. But first, the U.S. Postal Service is an important tool for any business

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it's a mail lady on my street. Why would you ever want to get in your car to go mail something? Just hand it off to someone. Be like me. Use this code BS. My initials for this special offer, you get up to $55 free postage. You get a digital scale. You get a four-week trial. All you have to do is go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, type in BS, stamps.com, enter BS, sign up today. And one more thing before we get to Alyssa. Again, I'm hosting the Ringer NBA show tonight, late night, late, late night. I might be half asleep. Might have to get a coffee around six o'clock, but we're coming in right after all the playoff seedings are set. Me and a bunch of our ringer friends, we're just banging it out,

trying to figure out who's favored, what's going to happen, all that stuff. It will be available for the night owls tonight. It will be available for everybody tomorrow morning. Check that out. Here we go. Here's Alyssa. All right. We wanted to talk a little bit about this Facebook, I guess the

best word would be fiasco with the ringers, Alyssa Bearsnack. You've been following this, you've been watching the hearings, you've been captivated by his electric personality, as it gives his testimonies. Can you try to sum this whole thing up in less than a minute, what this means to the future of America? That's a tough question, but I'm giving it to you anyway. Sure. I think the most concerning thing

about this event was it demonstrated how little our lawmakers know and they're the ones in charge of regulating Facebook. So in sum, the lawmakers know something is wrong. They just don't know what Facebook is. So it's going to take a really long time for them to figure that out

in order to make rules to regulate Facebook. And in the meantime, Zuckerberg is going to be self-regulating and that might be bad for everyone who uses the platform. And the history of America is basically when you build something that's gigantic and it becomes a monopoly and the rules don't really apply, we usually fix this. And for the last 14 years, we haven't come close to trying to fix this. And now belatedly, they're trying to fix this. Yeah. Even like the auto industry, it's like they started making cars and then they're like, we need a seat belt because people are flying out of the windshields yeah um but that's just such a an easy visceral um demonstration of of a regulation and in this case we would be like really having to pick through the algorithms which are super complicated and you know if you're a 70

year old congressman you might not really know what that entails. Right. And I've seen this pointed out on Twitter, but it is funny for them to be blaming Zuckerberg for not knowing a lot of this stuff when a lot of the people who decide our laws don't read the laws and don't do any of the homework. I mean, it's basically the same situation. But I look backwards and I think, you know, Obama was in office for eight years. And during those eight years, Facebook ballooned into this content monolith. And by the time Obama left office in 2016, the Facebook newsfeed was the number one way to distribute news. And the one that all these different media outlets were looking at is how

can we get on the Facebook algorithm. People were doing advertising on there. Obviously, something was happening politically, and it just did not seem to be on the radar for the entire Obama administration. Should he take more slack for his role or lack of a role in this whole thing? I mean, that's such a great point. This has been an old problem. And I joined Facebook in 2006, and I've been watching since I was basically 17 years old that this product has manipulated my life

in many different ways. It's a very personal relationship with this platform. They were having a great time because there wasn't any threat of Trump, you know, like no one really saw this insane, insidious, like fake news storm coming on. And so and Obama, you know, getting back to Cambridge Analytica scandal, which is kind of what set off this whole testimony in the first place, Cambridge Analytica was able to get access to millions of users' data under old Facebook policies. Obama used similar psycho manipulative tactics in advertising to his constituents, too, when

he was running for president. Yeah. So it's not necessarily like, oh, the Trump administration came along and decided to like exploit the internet for bad. It's more like we've always been doing this, but once it threw our world into chaos, that's when we started to care. Yeah. I mean, if you Google Obama 2008 Facebook,

the first few things that come up are about, and I think people forget this now, like US News 2008, Barack Obama and the Facebook election. But one of his key strategists, who was 24 at the time, Chris Hughes, was a Facebook co-founder. And it says, it was Hughes who masterminded the Obama campaign's highly effective web blitzkrieg, everything from social networking sites to podcasting and mobile messaging. It's really strange to me that he didn't also see the potential, you know, obviously he saw the good in it and he exploited it to his benefit, but that he also at no point during those eight years that he didn't see, oh, wait, if this was in the wrong hands, this could be really bad. And I think I really think he should take more shit for that. Yeah, I mean, right. Obama is kind of an optimist, too. And he his whole administration, he was embracing Silicon Valley like crazy. So many people who worked in tech came to Washington and worked for him. And that was part of his strategy. He was able to recruit a lot of talent. So he was close with them for a reason. It's true. Both him and Mark Zuckerberg were just like insane optimists, quote unquote, and they just weren't able to see the future coming. By the way, optimists about the internet, which is the most pessimistic place we have and that we're probably we've ever created.

It's just kind of funny. Truly, it's hard for me to understand as someone who spends a lot of time on the internet. Yeah. And I think there, you know, Facebook for years and years, I think I joined in like 2005 because my wife had a baby and I wanted to put pictures of our kids on Facebook for my friends to see. I might've even joined sooner than that. I don't even know. But for years and years, it was just a place for me to post photos for my friends and my family, or for me to look at photos of my friends and my family. And that's really all I wanted from Facebook. And then over this decade, you saw news outlets starting to use it. And I remember when we were putting together The Ringer in October, November, December, 2015, all the way through the start of 16, we were really worried

about the Facebook algorithm. It had so much power all of a sudden. We were like, do we create a website that relies on that algorithm? What do we do? And we were really skeptical and dubious of it. All they had to do was change a couple of things. And all of a sudden, if you built your business around that, you're in trouble. At the same time, when we were innovating the ringer the grant lane was with sports and tech i mean sports and pop culture and we really wanted to have tech as part of the ringer because we felt like this was becoming as important as sports and politics and pop culture this this was kind of the fourth vertical of life that was materializing and now it seems like it's almost ballooned past

all that stuff it really fit this feels like the most important story that we have right now do you do you think there's a more important story than this i mean like michael cohen's office being raided by the fbi is like way sexier for sure like i i love that story but i i have to agree like i mean like i said i've been watching this for 14 years in a really personal way I yeah I joined Facebook in high school when I got my college email and uh I was looking back at like the initial things that I posted at the very beginning just to try and understand why I used to like it and it was just so. It was like just me and my friends and an entire album of us

hanging at a park. And there was no worry that Facebook might take that data and manipulate it. And now every moment that I post on the website, I'm thinking about who might see this, what ad will come later, whether or not I'll get enough engagement because that's the whole thing. Even Zuckerberg, when he was posting in Washington, D.C. right before he went to the testimony, he included a photo of the cherry blossom trees and a really nice picture of Capitol Hill. And it was so ironic. It's like we've been taught as humans to sort of play into the algorithm. And he was performing it just as much right before he was going to testify about all the

damaging things Facebook has done to us. Right. Well, I remember I'm old enough to remember when the internet really started to get going. And for the first time, this was late 90s. I'm not sure how old you were at that point, but it was the first time people started thinking, all right, if I pay for stuff online and I put my credit card online, what happens? This was like five years after the net with Sandra Bullock, right? Where it's like this fear of like, oh, everyone's going to steal my information and my identity will be gone. And if I put my credit card on a website, I don't know who else can get that credit card. Somebody could charge $100,000 to my credit card. I wouldn't be able to stop it. And there was real fear and panic about that. And it really kind of crippled some

of the stuff. It crippled the ability of newspapers to initially say, here's our content, just pay for us online because people didn't want to. And I think Amazon kind of started to wear people down over the early part of the last decade. And people started getting used to it. Then eBay, PayPal, and there are these little bumps as it went along. And then by early this decade, it was almost like we all kind of stopped thinking about it and it was like, oh yeah, it's fine. Oh yeah, I'm protected. And now you find out over the last couple of years, oh yeah, people left and right are selling my information to whoever or giving it to them. And I don't know, on the one hand, people are super disappointed and I think a little bit scared of how scary the potential of all this is. But on the other hand,

I don't want to say we should blame ourselves, but I kind of feel like we should have seen this coming a little bit. Am I wrong? No. I mean, especially as someone who's been covering Facebook for so many years, it's just really interesting to see how they keep repeating these phrases. Like we made a mistake. We need to do better. Like that's literally kind of what Zuckerberg said when he was a college student at Harvard and made a hot or not app, you know, like he's practiced at this. So the fact that we've just kept forgiving over and over again, the same way we may have kept forgiving the credit card, lack of credit card security online, it's concerning because no one really understands what's going on. Our lawmakers are so behind on the technology that there's just no way to keep up with the complex algorithms unless they're more transparent.

But Zuckerberg is the king of this empire. I mean, he has voting control of the board and he's a CEO and he thinks he's the best guy for the job and there's not much we can do to stop it. Yeah. I wonder, you know, I mean, Lord knows with Trump, we're probably not in great hands here, but it almost seems like we need, this is like its own cabinet. And I know they have these little cabinets with this guy's in charge of the internet or whatever, but are the internet security. And I'm sure they have these little sub positions, but it almost seems like we need a czar to step in and just completely redo the rules on how we do some of this stuff. And on paper, that sounds great.

But then you think about, oh, yeah, with guns, we can't even figure out how to keep AR-15s out of the country. We're certainly not going to be able to figure out how to regulate the internet. And yet it seems like we are heading toward a point where we need to regulate the internet. They did it with radio. They did it with television to at least some degree. You can't, you know, you can't show a sex scene on ABC at 10 o'clock. That's illegal. And there's heavy fines for that. Why can't we head toward that with the internet? What are the obstacles that you see? Sure. I mean, I think part of it is that Trump wouldn't care enough. Like he's got his own stuff going on. True. But to be fair, Obama didn't care enough either. Yeah. He did small stuff to start putting people

in charge of tech related stuff in the United States. But did not make it a passion. Did not make it like we have to fix this i am really worried about how this is going he just never did that yeah i don't think he ever expected it to get this messed up yeah um but yeah there we i would love a czar like please bring on the czar um i i uh i read this interesting bloomberg paul Paul Ford piece where he kind of proposed an agency that just like the EPA sort of monitored data spills and then assigned fines and things of that nature based on those spills and then like created laws. And I think I mean, it's very clear that we need an organization of experts to handle this and not just our lawmakers to recognize what's wrong in Facebook when they can't even figure out what Facebook is. I mean, I barely know what Facebook is. Yeah. Well, I guess the difference between what's happening, because Google, we didn't talk

about and, you know, Twitter, obviously, the difference, like you mentioned automobiles earlier and we all needed automobiles, but at the same time, there were very basic ways to change how they behaved. There were very basic ways to change. Yeah, you can't just pump carbon monoxide that can kill anybody within 20 feet. You have to fix your exhaust pipes, and you have to put seatbelts on. If you have this engine and it catches on fire, you have to fix this. It's a little tougher to tell Facebook and Google what to do. And especially Google, which just has, I mean, Lord only knows the kind of information they have on all of us. I can't even fathom. And how damaging it would be if it came out. And I'm sure they have like

everybody's search history forever. And I just think it's tougher. It's almost like you, I wonder if lawmakers are almost afraid to screw with them to some degree because they're kind of poking the bear, right? Yeah. I mean, one thing that kept coming up in the testimony that I thought was kind of a false idea that Zuckerberg kept presenting was that users love when their ads are targeted. Users love seeing relevant ads. And it's like, okay, maybe you came up with that idea because you need to show ads. And when you showed them ads of, I don't know, like ugly shoes they don't

like, they were unhappy with them based on your small research. but actually what users like is to know that their data is safe yeah and that is like the main issue that he's kind of dodging by saying well we're just trying to serve users relevant ads and it's like ad based data based business model. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's a lot to wrap your head around, but he won't even acknowledge that the business model is corrupt. Yeah, I would say as a user, I would think everybody would have the same basic priorities, right? Which is, please, please don't let me get hacked. Please don't give all my personal data to other people. Please protect me from people who are trolling me in a particularly vicious way. And those are like the basics. And then it goes into like, what's my user experience like? Oh, this is cool. Like, but those three things have to be there. And if they're not there, you know, I really feel like if Facebook hadn't bought Instagram all those years ago, and I'm not the only person to make this point, but like, if you just remove Instagram from the

Facebook equation, which I know is hard, cause it was very smart to buy Instagram is what one of the shrewdest things anybody did this decade. But if they didn't have Instagram and it was just Facebook on its own, and let's say Twitter had bought Instagram, I don't know what happens to Facebook. Because at that point, I think people would just be like, you know what? I'm out. But it's almost like the Instagram component. People love Instagram. I would say it's one of the most popular platforms I've ever seen. I might rank it number one just for the ease of it, how any age group can use it. And it's just, you don't have to worry about your information getting stolen. It's just, you're just posting pictures and that's it. If they hadn't done that, I really wonder how this would have played out.

What do you think? Yeah. I mean, it's their escape plan, basically. Like, I think that, like, when the Cambridge Analytica story first broke, everyone was saying, delete Facebook. Like, it was a hashtag campaign, everything like that. And then they slowly realized, oh, I can't just move to Instagram because Facebook owns Instagram. And in terms of ad platform, it's literally the same thing. Like all of the information from your Facebook profile is shared to your Instagram profile. Right. And vice versa. They just sort of move back and forth as this continuous data stream.

So, yeah, I mean, we're screwed there. And then WhatsApp is also owned by Facebook, which is a highly popular messaging app. If you look at the top, I don't know, six apps in the app store, three of them are owned by Facebook. Wow. So it's I mean, it's true that this is their next step. And a lot of investors have kind of been eyeing Instagram as like, OK, this is the future. But I don't want to give it up. I mean, I can't give up any social media because it's technically my job to use it. But I also really love Instagram. It's true. Like lots of great stuff is on there. And the other thing I'm worried about is if people start moving en masse to Instagram, Facebook has a lot of machine learning and AI tools that analyze images that

can scrape data from images as well. So they can identify objects and all of that analyze images that can scrape data from images as well. So they can identify objects and all of that. And that seems like the future for Facebook if they are still so data hungry. Yeah. This next question is tough. Are we sure Zuckerberg's a good guy? I'm just going backwards. First of all, Social Network, I think, is one of the best,

one of my favorite movies that's come out in the last 10 years. And you leave that movie going, wow, I don't think Zuckerberg is a good guy. And now you look at everything that's happened in the last 10 years and the where he's just drinking the water like an alien and the responses he gives, but then his way to kind of throw us off the scent is he just gives a ton of money to charity. He's like, look, I'm a good guy. I am giving money to charity, but I'm not sure he's a good guy. What is your opinion? I loved that Zuckerberg impression. Thank you. You should do that more often. I'll do the rest of the podcast like that if you want what do you think alyssa um actually so i think that the social network was an interesting experiment because i think that movie actually had to exaggerate a lot to make zuckerberg an interesting person i think he's much blander than that, actually.

And either that or he's A-B tested by his vast communications team to be much blander than that. Yeah. But I think that maybe, I mean, okay, I know what is shared to me by the public and then, or what he shares in public and then the small snippets we can gather from his past if he hasn't already deleted them off of his platform that he controls. And one of the things that came out among this Cambridge Analytica scandal was a chat conversation he had had at Harvard with a friend about how he could access anyone's data. And then the person asked,

oh, how'd you get a hold of this? And he said something like, they let me, dumb fucks. And it's shaky reporting. It's not entirely sure if that's true, but I totally believe it's true. I totally believe that he is a boy genius who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Well, what he did to the Winklevoss twins, which has been well documented, that happened. They hired him to come up with this idea, and he realized somewhere along the line, ah, screw those guys. I'll just keep this myself. That's not the act of a nice person.

However you want to spin it, it's just not. And a lot of the stuff that he's done over the last last decade which we've written about at the ringer and we've been writing about this all week and all month and for the last few months like he feels very coached he feels very rehearsed and all of his decisions seem to be decisions that were made after conferring with a bunch of people whether it's i'm gonna i should give money to this charity, or I should give this statement about some of our issues we've had. And I just don't know what the real person is. We were emailing about what to talk about during this, and you emailed me that the most

bizarre thing about this is this person who has created the greatest communications platform we've probably ever had other than television is also terrible at communicating. Yeah, it's true. And even in the testimony, it was fascinating. He had clearly latched onto these phrases like, Mr. Senator, and now I'm doing my Zuckerberg impression, Mr. Senator. Mr. Senator. And I'll have my team get back to you on that. A lot of, I'll have my team get back to you on that. A lot of I'll have my team get back to you on that. And there was a woman sitting behind him who I think was part of his communications team. And she was furiously typing on her phone. Who knows what she was saying? Just like freaking out the entire time. But she would look up and listen every

time he was handed kind of a difficult question and you could see her eyebrows and her eyes shifting to like analyze whether or not he was hitting the talking point and then as soon as he did it she would look back at her phone and it was just like this fascinating thing like a reminder that he has this giant um arsenal of tools to approach the world and and yet he just never learned these skills as a person. And then that's when you start wondering, okay, so what is his human interaction like? What's he like with his wife? Because all we have is this really learned, coached persona. Yeah. And he's somebody that doesn't even go back a few years. You know, I've been a public person for a while and I had a Facebook and at some point

they just switched what the privacy settings were and made everything a lot more public. And they didn't really explain that to the users or tell them. And I got emails from a couple of readers like, hey, anybody can go on your Facebook and look at pictures of your wife and kids. And I'm like, what? I thought I had done all those settings. And I had to go in and redo all the settings that I had already done, that I already trusted Facebook, that they had put through for me.

Which my whole Facebook page is now public. And hundreds of pictures of my babies and my kids and my wife. And I just thought that was really fucked up and their apology for it because it became kind of a thing that week. Like, Oh, did you realize Facebook did this? And their apology was just really kind of impersonal. Like, whoops, sorry. Oh, we thought we told you. And that seems to be a recurring theme with them over and over again. Oops, sorry. Oh, we didn't realize. Oh, we thought we had told you. Oh, we didn't realize it was playing out that way. Oh, we knew that was happening,

but we didn't know the scope of it. And man, this stuff adds up after like the 10th time. I really, I don't trust Facebook at all. And I really thought about deleting my whole page. I have hundreds of photos there and I'm just not sure. I don't want to go to Facebook anymore. I'm really at wit's end. And I there. And I'm just not sure. I don't want to go to Facebook anymore. I'm really at wit's end. And I don't think I'm alone with this. So

I don't know how this plays out. And it doesn't sound like you know how it plays out either. I mean, I think we're just going to be seeing this getting even worse before it gets better. I'm not quite sure if Congress is going to be able to get it together to act. I'm not sure. He definitely did a good job of convincing the world that he can represent Facebook. After the first day, his net worth went up like $3 billion on the stocks. But I think there were a bunch of skeptical Congress people like Kamala Harris and even someone like Lindsey Graham. He was asking a lot of questions about how they're a monopoly. They don't believe that he really takes this seriously. And it's just a matter of whether or not there can be continued momentum. And that

depends on if people like us keep being angry. And the problem is everybody has so many things to be angry about these days. It's hard to pick and choose. We're going from one, oh my God, I'm so angry about this thing to the other. But I think people's very basic privacy has been completely compromised in a way that has not been explained properly yet. Here's my last question. If you had to bet, I'm going to say you have to bet everything in your checking account on one of these two outcomes. One is that this gets better and Facebook does all the right stuff and figures out kind of a solution to a lot of the issues we have and are genuinely apologetic about what happened and genuinely committed to fixing this. That's one outcome. The second outcome is that this gets worse and there's a smoking gun that we don't know about

yet. And there's three more stories like that Cambridge thing and there's stuff they've been hiding. And basically this is like almost Watergate 40 plus years ago before we found out that Nixon knew and was on all the tapes, that there's still this extra layer of horribleness that is lurking and we haven't hit yet. If you had to bet on one of those two outcomes, what would you bet? Well, I should first preface this with the fact that what's in my checking account isn't that much. Well, but do you still care about it? I do still care about it. I would say the latter. I'm a little bit of a pessimist. Wow, the latter. Oh, this is bad. Yeah, it's really bad. I grew up in Silicon Valley. I've watched it evolve.

We started with MySpace and I saw the minor dramas it caused in my high school. And now I've just watched it evolve to a thing that affects the integrity of international elections. So I guess I just haven't seen it slow down. So why would I expect that now, especially under a Trump administration? Can we figure out, is there any way to even conceivably figure out what the next step, what the next smoking gun would be? What is a possible worst case scenario? Give me one. Well, so the same thing that Cambridge Analytica did, a lot of different organizations could have done. During the time that Facebook's social graph allowed third party apps to enter into the system every time you

used them to sign in. That was when Cambridge Analytica presented this app. I think it was called something like, this is your digital life. And that's how people gave over their data. But not only that, the app had access to people's friends data. So thousands and thousands of apps during this period of time had access to these things. Who knows what's on their servers? And Facebook's next steps are to look into what these apps did with our data. I don't know how vigilant they were about record keeping. It seems like a huge task. He's given very little detail on the actual parameters of this audit. So I think that we could potentially have like six more Cambridge Analyticas. Maybe they didn't all help the Trump campaign in the 2016 election, which were a lot of people are angry about, but they could have used it for other nefarious reasons. And, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if there were state actors or even just partisan actors mixed in with all of that. God, it's starting to feel like big, powerful, wealthy

people might not have the best intentions. Oh, wait, we've always known that for the last, basically the plot of There Will Be Blood and every movie ever about any of this stuff. I think it is crazy though. Fantasy wrote about the Sandra Bullock, The Net movie. And it was just this so over the top cartoonish characterization of, oh, here's what the internet could do. And now it's like we're actually here. It's like these places might have all of our data and know every single thing there ever is to know about any of us.

And every sort of internet habit we have, all the people we know, everyone we're friends with, whether we're checking to see our ex-boyfriends or girlfriends, it's just creepy. It really is. We don't know who has our social security numbers. I don't think we can cover this story enough. Fortunately, we've been writing about it

a lot on The Ringer. Alyssa, Victor Luckerson, Molly McHugh, Kate Nibbs. We've been trying to cover this as much as we can. We think it's the most important thing going on right now. I mean, God bless the NBA playoffs. God bless the NFL draft. But this is really scary stuff. I'm really proud of the stuff we're writing.

And thanks for coming on, Alyssa. I hope this doesn't get worse. Yeah, thanks for having me. And me too. Say hi to everybody in the New York office. I will. All right. Bye-bye.

All right. Thanks to Mike Francesa. Thanks to Alyssa. My listeners can try out ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. My listeners can also try out Gillette. You can try out everything at Gillette. You can try the Gillette Fusion ultra-sensitive skin shavings gel. You can try out the new Gillette 5 razor, feel what a 360 degree aqua grip handle, 360 aqua grip handle. Is that what they call it?

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including Cleveland. Did not know that Cleveland had this little secret food scene. Oh, yeah. Hopefully I don't get to find out because I don't want Cleveland to make the finals. I'd rather see Philly there or my beloved Celtics. Either way, we're bringing our bellies and our stomachs to the finals. Check out that podcast and check out all the other Ringer stuff.

Talk to you on Friday morning. Have a little basketball surprise for you. Stay tuned. ... ......... I don't have a few years with him on the wayside on the first

I never said I don't have