The Bill Simmons Podcast - Mike Francesa’s Week 17 NFL Picks, Kuzmania, The Rise of OKC, Chris Borland on the Dangers of Football, and Pacific Ocean Hoops (Ep. 307)

Episode Date: December 29, 2017

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined again by New York radio legend Mike Francesa to recap last week’s NFL picks (2:23) and offer up picks for Week 17 (19:06). Then, The Ringer's Kevin O’Connor joins to discuss precocious NBA rookies (28:17) and the Oklahoma City Thunder trending upwards (31:28); former NFL linebacker Chris Borland and The Ringer’s Kevin Clark come on to debate the factors that hinder player safety in football (35:33); and The Ringer’s Mark Titus and Tate Frazier sit down to consider a hypothetical college basketball rivalry (43:39). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast, the final one of 2017 on The Ringer Podcast Network, brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor for this entire year. For $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase on NBA tickets, use promo code BSNBA, download the SeatGeek app, or go right to SeatGeek.com. We're also brought to you by State Farm. A State Farm agent has the knowledge and experience to anticipate your needs. With State Farm, you get more than just an agent. You get a teammate that gets what matters most to you. Go to StateFarm.com to get an agent that gets you.

And be sure to check out the Ringer's first NBA Relationships Goals video on TheRinger.com, The Ringer's YouTube channel, The Ringer's Facebook, or Twitter. Remember, like teammates on the ringer.com, the ringers YouTube channel, the ringers Facebook or Twitter. Remember like teammates on the court, a relationship with a state farm agent set you up for success off the court. We're also brought to you by a couple of podcasts that I'm on this week. For some reason, even though we have no idea if the audience is bigger or smaller for podcasts during holiday week, you could tell me either and I'd believe it,

but I'm on the ringer NFL show, a podcast that I taped with Kevin Clark and Chris Borland, the retired linebacker of the 49ers who retired early because he was afraid of concussions and his health. Fascinating conversation on the future in the NFL. That's on the Ringer NFL show this week. I did a two-part podcast with Mark Titus and Tate Frazier on their podcast, The One Shining Podcast, about 12 schools that should have better college basketball programs and don't. And we made 12 suggestions, and it's a good one.

And we're going to run a little bit of it at the end of this podcast. Then the other one we did was on Ringer NBA Show, me and Kevin O'Connor broke down all 30 teams. We had one take on each team each, two parts. That's on the Ringer NBA show, me and Kevin O'Connor broke down all 30 teams. We had one take on each team each, two parts. That's on the Ringer NBA show. We'll be playing something from that a little bit later as well. Coming up, Mike Francesa is going to do some NFL picks with me. We did badly last week. We're going to do better this week.

And then we're going to run a bunch of stuff from the three podcasts I just mentioned. First, Pearl Jam. All right, on the line for the second straight week, hibernating New York radio legend Mike Francesa. We did not do well on our picks last week, Mike. Well, you know, listen, you've had a bad year, at least for me. That was a rare bad week for me, but I want to apologize to the audience for one thing.

I could not have been more wrong about the Eagles and the Raiders. I thought the Raiders would play terribly and they really did try. And I'll tell you something, I came away from that game and I don't like one game to ever influence me, but watching that quarterback and watching that secondary, I would really be very concerned about the Eagles going into the playoffs. I didn't like anything I saw. And I'm telling you that quarterback, look, he couldn't miss any more receivers than he missed. That was a dreadful, dreadful performance. Then tell me this, Bill, okay?

How did the Cowboys ever lose that game? I mean, they gave up no yardage. If they don't turn the ball over, they win that game by 1720 points. That was unbelievably bad. So that was a tough one. And I apologize for the Eagles because that was my worst pick of the year. I was dead wrong about that game. Didn't deserve to get a push anywhere with that game.

I didn't with the picks, but I might have been another place. But I didn't deserve it. There's no way I deserved it. It was that bad a game. And that would scare me. I don't like one effort to bother me going into the playoffs. But I have to tell you, I will be very concerned about the Eagles going into the playoffs. I felt the same way. They were up seven, nothing. And Nick Foles just had the deer in the headlights

slash nervous feet slash every single thing you don't want. If you're betting on that quarterback, they're up seven, nothing. And you just felt like if the Raiders could get back into it, something weird would happen, which it did. And yet somehow we almost pushed. And some places that won. In some places during the week, it was eight and a half. I actually know a bunch of people had a push on the game. I don't know anybody who won. But even a push was something where you felt like you stole money.

There's no question. And yet they didn't kick the PAT, which was hilarious. No one made a big deal about that. That was hilarious. Which was, you know, no one made a big deal about that. That was unbelievable. Can you imagine how he would have been Santa Claus to so many people in the stands if he had kicked the PAT? I was shocked that there wasn't an overall. If that game was in New York, there would have been a groan in the stands.

Yeah. Unbelievable. They would have been groaning. They would have been chanting to kick the extra point. They might have charged the field. I don't feel bad about my picks. I don't feel bad about my picks last week because that Eagles thing,

you had to see how bad Nick Foles was. It wasn't something I don't think we knew heading into it. How about the Cowboys? The Cowboys, they didn't give up any yardage from scrimmage, and they lost the game. It was unbelievable. All they had to do was hand off three times and punt, and their defense could have won the game by itself, and they didn't give up any yardage from scrimmage, and they lost the game. It was unbelievable. All they had to do was hand off three times and punt, and their defense could have won the game by itself,

and they didn't even think to do that. Unbelievable. That made it a very weird week. This week is an even stranger week. I got a couple of things I like, but I'll tell you, there's a couple of things where you have to wonder about coaches and their motivation about manipulating roles and manipulating playoff paths. I've heard a lot of rumbling about that in the league. And I'll tell you right now,

we all know that the Rams run because Jimmy G is not only going to win again, the Rams want them to beat them. So that game, I'm telling you, run as fast as you can run before it's Niners minus eight, because the Niners are winning that game. I agree. And, run as fast as you can run before it's Niners minus eight because the Niners are winning that game. I agree. And that right now the line is still four and a half. And there's so many different ways you can have fun with it. You can bet it straight up. You can throw it. It's minus 200. Put it in parlays. There's a parlay. Niners Seahawks Chargers is plus 133. I think it's a rare gift. I'm with you. It seems like the Rams not only want no part

of winning that game, they're arresting Jared Goff, they're arresting Todd Gurley, but it's actually... Here's the thing. They want to be the four because they want to play Carolina. They want to be the four

because they don't want to play the Falcons. They want to be the four so they can go to Philly. They don't want to go to Minnesota the next week. So they want to be the four for a hundred reasons.

Right. They want to play Nick Foles in round two and also that Philly secondary which really it looks like you can throw on them whenever you want. Amara Cooper was getting open, which isn't a good sign. And they don't want anything to do with Minnesota

because Minnesota shuts down their running game and they beat them 24-7. They don't want any part of Minnesota. Absolutely. Now Now I think you'll see some other teams really go hard. I think Minnesota, I think Zimmer is the type reminds me a little bit of Parcells in that he'll never ever think about losing anything. He'd win a tiddlywink. So I think Zimmer will play really hard with his team. And I'm telling you this team, I'm going to go to the well, and I have to admit they've

burned me before this year, but I think I go into the well with the Falcons. I think within front of them in their building, if they can't win this game, they are one of the real, real terrible, you know, return stories after a Superbowl, because this team has tons of talent. They haven't clicked all year. It's still right in front of them. They have to make the playoffs with this game this week. They have to. Well, let's talk.

We both picked them last week. I still don't feel like it was a bad pick. The whole logic was they're getting five. It was an either or game, division, dome. You figured even if they didn't win you love getting the points and they did everything they could to shoot themselves in the foot from they have all year yeah they have all year whenever they haven't done that they've been good enough to win and agreed i'm going back on them i think they'll win i and listen i think carolina's gonna try there's reasons for carolina to try they can

move up they know that they can get a home game. They can move around. Some teams are going to now I've always found that teams play unbelievably hard to get into the playoffs. They play hard to get a week off. They usually don't play hard for seeding. That's one thing you got to watch when you have a week off, like the Pats, you know, they're going to win. I mean, we know that the Steelers, they're going to win. The only question is by how many, you know, they're going to win the games and, we know that. The Steelers, they're going to win. The only question is by how many. You know they're going to win the games. And I'm not going to be given any 17-point games. I just don't do that. So I'm not going to tell you to take the Pats minus 17. I'm not going to do that. But the point is, though, we all expect it to happen. They also might be a Hackenberg sighting, and if there

is, well, I don't even know what to say about that. But we know the amazing thing is the Pats are going to look how many games they're going to have won this year and give me the games they were impressive in, in this entire season. I saw on a football outsiders, they did the DVOA, the advanced metric to measure offense, defense, special teams. The Pats are the number one offense and the number 32 defense. And it actually makes sense because I watch every Pats game and I've never felt even for one quarter good about their defense. And they're going to be a one. No, I agree.

It's amazing. Not only that, there'll be a favorite to get to the Superbowl again. And you know, they're going to make the plays they have to make on offense all the time. You can scare them with a pass rush, especially if you can get some pressure up the middle, you know, can give him trouble. Otherwise, you're not giving him any trouble. And again, you know somehow they'll come up with the interception they have to come up with.

Or now, James Harrison will come up with the sack he has to come up with in the AFC championship game. I mean, that's just typical. He'll make the sack that strips the ball from Roethlisberger, and the Pats will go to the Super Bowl in a couple of weeks. That'll be what happens. I mean, we can see that one a mile away. Or, or he'll get the unsportsmanlike penalty conduct that keeps the drive alive.

And then we're all going to think he's a spy. I'm still not, I'm still worried that Mike Tomlin sent him to ruin the Pats. We don't know. All right. Do you think there's a team that needs to win and get in? And that's Baltimore. That's Tennessee. that's Atlanta that will outright lose.

I do actually. One of my picks, I think Tennessee sucks. I'm just not a believer. I read, I've been monitoring all the quotes this week from the teams that really don't have a lot to play for, but you can kind of tell from the coaches, like the Rams pretty quickly where we're saying we're out, I'm not playing these guys and they clearly don't have a lot to play for, but you can kind of tell from the coaches. The Rams pretty quickly were saying, we're out, I'm not playing these guys, and they clearly don't care. Marone is doing the Belichick slash Parcells move of...

That's from Coughlin, too. It's the same thing. Yeah, I want to win. Yeah, he's like, this is a game. They're going to play hard. They're playing hard, there's no question. They're from the same cloth. Zimmer, Coughlin, Marone, they're from the same cloth.

I'm telling you, I remember games where Bill had nothing to play for and put up 50. I'm telling you, he wouldn't lose a preseason game. If they kept score in your driveway, he's going to win the game. So I think it's true of Jacksonville. I think it's true of a couple other teams. I agree with you. I think Jim is that way too. I think they'll more... He's definitely like that. I'll tell you the other story too. There are going

to be major, major changes here. Let's run them down for a second. I'll give them to you real quick. Detroit, good chance they're going to be changing coaches. Houston, good chance they're going to be changing coaches houston good chance they're going to be changing coaches they're going to be changing coaches in indianapolis changing them in chicago i think bowls are safe uh could change the coach in washington uh obviously they're going to change uh the guys we know about already like uh i think you know malden lewis is out you know, Baldwin Lewis is out, you know, Cincinnati's out. Arizona, they might make him retire.

Del Rio could be in trouble. I think Denver is going to make a change after one year. You could have 10 coaching changes again this year. It could be a huge year again. And don't be surprised about Oakland. Don't be surprised about Detroit. I think there's a lot of places where you could, and even Arizona, I'm hearing. So he could be retiring.

So there could be a million changes this year. And you didn't mention, did you mention John Fox, Chicago? That's in play? Oh, he's out for sure. He's automatic, yeah. He's out. Indianapolis, Chicago, Cincinnati are automatic. Those are absolute.

And Dallas, he's staying. He's absolutely staying. Garrett's not going anywhere. He's staying. Unbelievable. And I think Bowles is staying. I saw McKagnagan on the field. I took my son Harrison, who's a Chiefs fan, to see the Chiefs with the Jets.

And I had a long talk with McKagan. He told me he's going to keep Bowles, so I think he is. I think they're going to give Bowles another chance. So if you wanted to bet on the Chargers to make the playoffs this week, Baltimore would have to win and Tennessee would have to beat the Jags. That parlay is plus 266. I kind of like it because basically the team that needs to come through is

the Jags. The key with them was they got killed last week. They don't want to go into the playoffs having lost two straight and given up 43 in week 16. I actually think they're going to try. It's a division rival. They'll knock them out. They'll feel good about it. Now you have some momentum. That they're going to try. It's a division rival. They'll knock them out. They'll feel good about it.

Now you have some momentum. And that's one of my picks. That's Jack's plus three. That's my first pick. And again, we forgot one other one, you know, who else I think is out,

Dirk Cutter's out in Tampa. And I, not only that, the rumor you're hearing there is Gruden. I mean, the Gruden rumor is getting stronger and stronger in Tampa. I mean, you keep hearing that rumor.

I don't know if it's true, and there's always Gruden rumors, but he does live close by, and there has been talk of him talking about putting a staff together. So let's see. Maybe he is, but I think Dirk Cutter's out there, too. Here's why I think Gruden's coming back, because he's completely given up on how to broadcast an NFL game. He says nothing.

He hasn't made a point for three months. He says he loves everybody, if you notice. Oh, I love that guy. No kidding. I love that guy. Oh, I love that guy. You know I love that guy. I love that guy.

I love that guy. You're absolutely right. He loves everybody. He loves you. I mean, it's unbelievable. Anytime an announcer is just praising everyone left and right, like he's done games where the quarterbacks have been flat out atrocious,

and he's just kind of ignoring it. And that's why I think once announcers at that point, they want to come back. I could tell Steve Kerr, his Steve Kerr's last year announcing games. I, and I know him too. So I could just tell something shifted where you could tell they,

they just don't want anybody to have any bulletin board material. And that's it. And can we spend a minute and talk about Jimmy G? Oh my God. We call it Jimmy has anybody ever. And I got ripped in New York when I said I would give up two number ones to get them in the middle of the season. When somebody called me and said,

how could I said, I will give you two number ones for this guy. And the legends of Jimmy G continues to grow. This week, we got a little help from the Rams. But how about last week? And he did get some help from his good friend Bortles last week, who played like a total bum. But Jimmy G put up a hundred.

You knew that Jacksonville was not showing up when Jimmy G had 150 passing yards in the first quarter against Jacksonville last week. With no receivers that anybody can recognize. It's like, who are these guys? Can you imagine this guy? Can you imagine what the offseason is going to be? This guy went to a 1-10 team and won five straight games.

And he's definitely winning this week. And I was so mad that I didn't back him last week. I got scared. It just seemed like too many people were excited about Jimmy G. I didn't either. All my gambling senses were like, stay away. Right. I thought Jacksonville was just so much better.

But as soon as it got close and it got 16 up and then Bortles helped out by throwing a pick, you know, you were in good shape. That was it. Bortles chipped in. You never know what Bortles you're getting. You're getting the Bortles who's playing for your team or Bortles who's playing for the other team. You just never know what Bortles you're getting in this league. One week, it's one, and one week, it's the other.

There's the good Bortles, and there's the uh-uh Bortles. That's it. There's one thing about Bortles, and I think, Nick Foles, you can say this too when we get to the playoffs. If they're down 10-plus, the game's basically over. They're not going to be able to come back. Once the other team knows they have to throw, that's

when the bad stuff happens. How many times last week did Foles expose his tight ends ribs in one game over the middle? How scared was Jeffrey? If he went up the ladder, he wouldn't even talk after the game. He left the building.

He was furious. I mean, this guy hung how many receivers out to dry last week? Oh, my God. And then it was like basically a tie game, the fourth quarter, and they're just handing off when you know they're handing off when there's an eight-man lineup. The Eagles are like, that's fine. We're still handing off.

We're not letting this guy do anything. I can't remember one seed with the worst quarterback. I actually went through all the teams. The march of the wooden quarterbacks this year into the playoffs. It really is. And on the end of it, who's there? Of course, your beloved, Mr. Brady. I know.

With this group of tin soldiers, it is unbelievable what is going on. And I somehow can see the smoke clearing and see a Minnesota, New England Super Bowl. And talking about the unbelievable thought of Case Keenum and Tom Brady sharing a Super Bowl stage is kind of hard for anybody to actually digest. The biggest thing that's happened with the Pats these last six weeks has been Deion Lewis has become like a top eight running back and is really the best all-around running back they've had in a few years. Maybe even Corey Dillon didn't catch balls out of the backfield like this. I think he's the total package. No, he's playing great.

He's playing great. I'll tell you this. The last drive in the Pittsburgh game was the single greatest performance in a capsule by a tight end I have ever seen in my life. He beat people one-on-one. He made

catches on the flat run. He took a ball off his shoe tops on the dead run that was thrown basically about laces high, and he caught it. I mean, and then caught the two-point conversion. That was the tour de force. All you've got to do is show that clip. You don't have to show anything else.

If you want to discuss the greatest tight end in history, just show that clip. You don't have to show anything else ever. Just that drive, which was all Gronkowski, just show that. You don't have to show anything else ever again. And then you've got to ask, too, why he was never double covered once on the whole drive. But that's another thing he discussed later. You know, why they would never, ever give anybody help on that drive. Especially with the other people that were out in the field.

I just want Gronk to get through the season. I'm not even sure I'd play him. Like, we didn't talk about the East Coast weather. It seems like it's going to be freezing, freezing cold on Sunday. And I would not play Gronk more than a quarter. Well, you might. Listen, you might not have to in the second half. You might not have to.

That one should. Listen, you know they're not losing that game. You know they're winning the game. You know Pittsburgh's winning the game. They're going to be the one of the two. We all know that. And then the fun starts with the rest. And to see where there's going to be an upset in the apple cart. So, let me give you a couple of picks here. Let's do it. And then we fun starts with the rest and to see where there's going to be an upset in the

apple card. So let me give you a couple of picks here and then we'll call it a day. All right. So I'm on with Atlanta again. One last time. There are four points favorite at home against Carolina. I'm going to the well, they need to win. I still think they can do damage in the playoffs. I will be bitterly disappointed. Now, listen, I admit they've burned me a couple of times this year. I've won on them too. I've been on them a lot this year. They've been a story for me all year. I'm going with them against Carolina. I think once Carolina gets broken, if they do early in this game, they'll realize that, you know, get ready for the post season. That'll happen in the second half. So I like Atlanta

minus four. We mentioned San Francisco, which I have right now is a three and a half point favorite. You know, it's going to go up, take San Francisco. A, the Rams are not trying. I think the Rams want to lose this game. I think they prefer the route they want to take with a loss. The saga, the legend of Jimmy G continues to grow. So I go with San Francisco, whatever your line is, three, four, whatever, whatever it is, when you get it. Let's go with 4.5. Okay, 4.5, San Francisco is game number two. And then for game number three, I'm going to go with Baltimore,

minus 10.5 in Marvin Lewis' last game. Cincinnati had their moment last week. At Baltimore, with their defense, they'll come up big. They'll probably, you know, cover on a pick six late. I don't like the Ravens laying 10 and a half, but they have to win the game.

They're going back to the playoffs. That coach in big spots usually produces big things from his specials, from his defense, and then whatever he can get out of his offense. Those are my three.

So I'm going with, see, I'm going with Atlanta minus four, San Francisco minus four and a half, and Baltimore minus ten and a half this week. What do you got? I have good news for you. The Baltimore line is down nine and a half, so you're getting a free point out of that. Okay, I'll take mine as nine and a half.

Go ahead. I also have the Niners four and a half just because I need a win. I think that line is going to be seven and a half. I have the Jags plus three. I think they win outright. I'm not a believer in Tennessee. And Blake Bortles, you can't tell me he's going to play two terrible games in a row.

Oh, wait, you could totally tell me that. But I just don't like Tennessee. I don't think they're very good. And I think they're going to blow it. And I just feel like the Chargers are going to be in the playoffs. I have no explanation for it. It's just this gut feeling that I think the Jags win. I think the Ravens win.

And I think the Chargers win. Chargers make it. And yet the third team, I thought about the Bengals plus eight and a half or plus nine and a half. I'm with you. I think that game's going to be close. It's going to be cold. I don't think the Ravens are very good.

And I think the Bengals are going to keep that tight. I'm not going there. I'm going with Miami at home, plus two and a half against the Bills. I just don't think the Bills are good. I don't see it. You look at their last since week nine. They lost by 13. They lost by 37.

They lost by 30. They lost by 37. They lost by 30. They lost by 20. And they lost by 21. And they beat Miami in week 16 in Buffalo. I don't think they're very good. I like this kid Drake on Miami. I could see him having this random 220-yard week 17 game. And I'm just thinking, knock him out.

Let me ask you one thing before I go. You're Mr. NBA. Yeah. How many times do you think LeBron got fouled in the last two minutes of that game? Oh, my God. Well, what was crazy is he always gets calls. That was like the first time I can remember him not getting calls. Can you believe how many times he got hacked by Durant in one play?

I mean, he must have got hit 15 times. I mean, how does he not go to, how does he not, if Larry Bird had that happen to him, nobody would have got out of the building standing up. I mean, could you imagine somebody of his stature, national TV, Christmas Day, does not get the call going down the paint,

going down a lane like that, and gets hammered as many times as he did, and raked across the face by Durant. That was unbelievable. Where do you stand on Van Gundy just all the time now complaining about referees and instant replay to the point that it doesn't even seem like he's focused on the actual game anymore? Well, you know, it's funny. I think he's bored and I love Jeff and I know him very well.

And I think he has fought with the ideas of the whole idea of what it means to put into coaching again and what to put your family through coaching again and all the travel and all everything else. But I really think he needs to be energized. I think he's bored doing the games and I think he wants to coach again. He came very close to coach the last two years. I really think he wants to come back in the league

and I think he needs to, just like you said about Gruden, I think Jeff needs to come back in the league now and I think he will. I think he's come very close and I think he's about ready to come back into the league.

I wish him luck with the officials that he's been insulting year after year now for the last six years. And Brini, well, they make up for it because Brini,

who I love and is my, I play golf with all the time and is my neighbor. I, who I love and is my, I play golf with all the time, and is my neighbor. I mean, Breene is my neighbor, and I play golf with him all the time, and he never, ever knocks an official. So you know that they're pretty much balanced because Breene loves the official. I'll tell you the Christmas Day thing that got buried because everybody was so obsessed with that Warriors, Cavs, and the LeBron neck and calls. OKC's kind of coming together. And they figured out that it's Westbrook's team. It's his show.

Everybody else is the sidekick. And their team fell into place. And they're very good defensively. And they're becoming interesting. You know, I saw their bottom. I took my son, Jack, who is a huge Westbrook fan, to the game to see them when when they came to the Garden last, two weeks ago on Saturday night. Yeah, that was a bad one. That was their bottom.

They lost to a team that had, they lost to Baker and McDermott, okay? And Beasley getting 30 that night. And that was the bottom. And the next game, he's come out and Westbrook's become Westbrook again. Yeah. And the other guys, as you said, are now all big players. And now it's Westbrook, triple-double, Westbrook's become Westbrook again. And the other guys, as you said, are now all big players. And now it's Westbrook, triple-double, Westbrook, 30 shots, Westbrook leading the way.

And they haven't lost since. So I think you're right. They have turned the corner. They have turned the corner now, and they've gone back to being the team they were last year. I totally agree. And the thing they had with having those two guys to throw it hard in who are probably like two of the best four guys you could conceivably throw at him.

That is not a team Houston wants to see in a playoff season. You know what's the worst thing for that team, though? They really need to do one thing, and I don't know if he's unselfish enough to do it. They need to put Carmelo on the second unit. Their second unit can't score if they would put Carmelo on the second unit. Flip it, yeah.

He could become the terrific, he could become the Vinnie Johnson and score a lot of points playing 22 minutes a night, get himself 18 points a game, be the focal guy to take all the shots on the second unit. Their second unit cannot score a lick. And I think he's perfect for that. I hear Billy Donovan wants him to do it. He hasn't agreed to do it, but that would be perfect for that team.

He just went from being the savior of New York basketball five years ago to you just compared him to Vinnie Johnson. I did. What a fall for Carmelo. Wow. That would be a compliment right now, the way he's playing. That night he went five, you know, we went five for 18, Bill, and had a nightmare that night and got booed. And on the way out of the arena, I was waiting for the players to come through the hallway with my son. He stepped out of the line and came over and said, Mike, congratulations on a great career and walked away. So that was a pretty nice thing. And coming off with a bad night where he had that kind of night, that was pretty nice of him to do. But last question, what was the feedback on your first podcast appearance last week? You know what? I've been in Florida, so I have not been,

I've been out of the loop. So I really can't tell you that much. You'll have to tell me I've been away. I've been traveling with my family. I'm right now, uh, a little North of Palm beach. I'm bouncing around. I've been playing golf and I'll be back in New York next Tuesday. And then I'll have a better idea. So I haven't been around very much. The feedback is excellent. And the, the one things people seem to want to want is they want more movie reviews and more of your movie and TV thoughts. So we're going to have to work on that next week. Yeah, see more movies. See more holiday movies and stuff.

I will this week. I'm going to see two or three. Happy New Year, and I'll talk to you next week. Happy New Year. Talk to you next week. Thank you. Bye, Bill. Bye.

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I think texting has really brought NBA players together more than anything. Be sure to check that video out on TheRinger.com, TheRinger's YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash TheRinger, TheRinger's Facebook or Twitter, at Ringer. Are we at Ringer?

We're at Ringer, right? At Ringer. At Ringer, okay. And remember, like teammates on the court, a relationship with a State Farm agent sets you up for success off the court as well. Go to statefarm.com to get an agent that gets you. So the first thing we're going to play

is from the aforementioned two-part podcast I did with Kevin O'Connor on the Ringer NBA show this week. We're going to play you two parts. One is a conversation we had about the Lakers and the other is a conversation we had about OKC. Let's get to those right now. Lakers, 11 and 21. A couple things to mention with them. I've been so encouraged with what I saw from Lonzo the last week. I know I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my body, but I also love basketball. And it's much more fun if Lonzo's good.

The aggressiveness that he showed in a couple of those games the last couple weeks and how hard he was attacking and just trying to do stuff, I thought was super encouraging. But that's not my thing. I'm just really impressed by Kuzma as an offensive basketball player. He's really, really advanced and polished at a position that it's hard to find guys who have the array of skills that he has. I think we were all kind of waiting to see if this was going to be a flash in the pan or the summer league carried into the first couple of weeks and then he was going to fade off. And I just don't think he's fading off. I think this is who he is. I I'm really, really, really impressed by him. I think he's

an excellent player on offense. I don't know about the defense part yet, but I think he's really good. They got a gem at 27. Congrats. Mine's Kuzma too. I want to see them feed him the ball more. I want to see what he's really capable of. Um, like I said, with the Kings, I want to see those young guys play more. If you're the Lakers, Kuzma's already playing plenty. What I want to see is get him more shots, feed him more opportunity, put him in positions where you're leaning on him to score. I mean, the last couple games, 18 shots, 19 shots, 15 shots, 17, 16, that's more like around the range that I would like to see him, even more so the rest of the season, because I want to see what this guy's really capable of. 22- old rookie, 27 to pick in the draft,

already averaging 18. It's not inconceivable that if this is for real, he's a guy that can average in the low twenties for you the rest of the season. If you're feeding him the opportunity, I mean his footwork for his age and his, his really experienced level is outstanding. I think, I think Kuzma deserves a lot of credit for transforming his game over this summer because he's a different guy. I mean, people can say that the NBA missed on Kuzma, but Kuzma deserves credit for transforming his game. I mean, he's elevated his game to another level. So it's not necessarily that teams missed. It's that I think Kuzma really helped set himself apart from what he once was. I read an interesting quote from Donovan Mitchell when somebody asked him,

why is he doing this? Why is he playing so well? Why is he better in the pros than he was in college? And he was good in college. And he said, when I was in college, I was taking five classes a semester and doing all these other things. Now my whole job is to play basketball. Of course, I should be better at it. It kind of made sense. It was a weird quote that made me think. And I'm thinking like, yeah, this is all these guys do is play basketball. And in some cases, that's actually worse for them, that they lose their structure and they're on their own a lot and stuff like that.

In other ways, in a case with somebody who's a really hard worker like Mitchell or Kuzma, who this is all they're doing, you see some benefits. OKC, 19 and 15. They have Westbrook and Paul George are really, really good. And they have to be taken seriously. And it seems like they've figured out that my one thing for them is they've now figured out that it's not a big three. It's Westbrook's team and Paul George is aman, and Carmelo is one of the other guys. And it took them 30 games to get there, but they got there. And this is the team they are.

And the more Westbrook takes control like he has, the better off they're going to be. Trying to split everything evenly between the three guys was a mistake. And I think they realize that now. What's your one thing? Let's kind of one and two. I think for one, their defense is for real. I think, you know, considering the fact that we are almost into January now, they have so many guys on that end of the floor who can defend one-on-one, who play strong team defense, who play with effort. I think that defense is absolutely for real and kind of attached to that thought if you do consider that their defense is for real and it is versatile you can do so much on that end if their offense

continues making progress like it has this past week ish you know westbrook has really elevated his play both in terms of scoring efficiency making smart passes good decisions playing with moriff at himself on the defensive end what can they be like they can be they could be tremendous by april if their offense continues building and continues making more and more progress because their defense is their foundation and because that does allow them to i think stay in games if their offense gets on the level that you need they could be a real threat i mean people are talking about houston a team. Maybe they can topple Golden State. Maybe by April, people are talking about Oklahoma City as, well, could they be a threat to Golden State? Because nobody's really talking about that at the moment. But by

April, we'll see. They've made some nice progress these last 10 days or so. I realized yesterday during the Christmas game, and I agree with what you said, by the way, and their defense should be good because they have Paul George and Steven Adams and Roberson if they're going to play them. But I realized yesterday, watching them against Houston, that's kind of a nightmare matchup for Houston. Assuming OKC can get their shit together 100% by May

because they have two dudes to throw at Harden who have to be two of the five best possible dudes to throw at him, right? Paul George and Roberson. So Roberson or Roberson? What did we decide? What's the latest? Roberson.

I just want to call him Roberson over and over again. Yeah. But they have two awesome guys to throw at him. Then on the other side, Westbrook's always been a problem for Chris Paul. Always. And this was when Chris Paul was a good athlete. Isaac, you know. Did Chris Paul like guarding?

He did not like it he was alright at it didn't love it though didn't love it never loved it it's hard it's like riding a bull

preferred yelling at his teammates yeah Isaac's a better clipper fan Isaac but it is kind of I don't know if they caught Houston

in the right series I think that wouldn't be ideal I do think the most important thing is that they figured out that Carmelo just isn't the Carmelo from 2013. Once they realized that, they were in a better spot.

Indiana's 19-14. Oladipo. Unbelievable. You could argue he should be – I know we're not doing the conventional All-Star game anymore, but you could argue he's the starting two guard in the All-Star game. It's him or DeRozan. Who would you pick?

Oladipo. I think I would too. By a hair. By a hair. I think he's better defensively. Yeah, that's the edge on the defensive end. So that's been great. That's a win.

We all have to keep apologizing to Kevin Pritchard. That trade was awesome. And I'll be interested to see if they make one more move to become a little bit more dangerous come playoff time. What's your one thing for them? Besides Oladipo and his development, Sabonis as well. We talked about this on, I think, your podcast a couple of weeks ago. Sabonis in a new situation, new circumstances, not spotting up as much, playing more from the high post. Sabonis has taken strides in his game as well. So that's a testament to both him, his abilities, and the

coaching staff putting him in a position to succeed. All right, the next thing we're going to play you is from the Ringer NFL show with Chris Borland and Kevin Clark talking about treatment of NFL players by the team's medical staff and some of the conflicts that are pretty much inherent in that relationship. This is a really good lively section. Here we go. My dad was a college football player. He played in the early seventies. He didn't start until high school. They played eight games a year in Wisconsin on big, heavy, thick grass with light equipment and everybody was slower and smaller. We played 15 a year when I was in high school. We went out of state to hit in the off season. He played college football. Their preseason was two weeks, ours was four. We had 15 bowl practices, 15 spring ball practices. So I think over the next 25 to 50 years,

we'll see generations of players that just hit their head thousands more times than my dad's generation. It makes me sad, but we have to deal with it. It's not going to, ignoring it, it's not going to do anything. What's that drill when they have the two guys lined up in the small space? It's amazing that drill still exists. Yeah. They should just change that name to Concussion from Oklahoma.

I mean, seriously. It's just like it's like here's a structured car crash for the next half hour but 20 years ago that was like the drill it was like alright let's find who the men on this team

bull in the ring and all of those we used to do a drill at Wisconsin called Badger where two guys would line up a yard and a half from one another and just try to drive one another and it's how we would start a practice

that we wanted to be especially physical. So coach blows the whistle after warm-ups and says, Badger, drill, and everybody comes just to 100 guys just to hit. It doesn't make you any better at football. It doesn't improve you in coverage. It doesn't improve your run fits. It doesn't make you more physical. It just causes injuries.

So that barbaric senseless drills like the nutcracker and bull in the ring and badger i think we're seeing them phased out um it's past due honestly it's uh um it's silly to do something that wouldn't make you better at your sport just to be tough we're gonna stop doing them in the office the drills are out we can't stop oklahoma we found some good interns all interns we got bull in the ring running over there have you ever been at one of the practices where they've done those? like close up? yeah, I mean it's

brutal it's always the best hard knocks moment of whatever the first or second episode is the worst thing I think in NFL practices are how cavalier they are about when a guy gets hurt and everybody pretends like the guy wasn't hurt I remember it was a Giants practice a couple years ago and this guy like clearly like either blew out his knee or whatever and it was just like guy moved out of the way

and it's like that guy's I remember like an undrafted guy it's like that guy's like livelihood might be over forever and yeah the the modus operandi here is we don't care yeah that was shocking to me when i got to college um in high school if a kid got hurt practice would stop the trainer would come out in college it was move at 15 up yep um sometimes the play you know if it was a broken play would almost go back into the guy who's still there writhing in pain torn ligament you're still here yeah yeah i mean it it's wow did you ever see the movie Rollerball? I haven't no

it came out in 1974 how many movies have you seen? this is what I do I'm an only child James Caan okay and it was in the future

have you seen it? wasn't there a remake? the remake yeah I saw the remake on cable we're not discussing the remake James it's basically

this futuristic sport that's like football. And the guys is modeled after kind of the roller derby, but football. And there's guys on bikes and just trying to get around. And it's violent like football is. And it starts getting more and more violent. And eventually, they just decide to get rid of the rules. And it's like a whole parallel. Basically, it's a movie about the NFL, but it's not.

And in the last thing, it's basically Last Man Standing wins and James Caan's the last guy. But everybody's dead. So this is 1974. And this is like, we're going to make this movie about football, but it's not really about football. So obviously they knew in the 70s, because then you watch North Dallas 40. And same thing, like Nick Nolte is the lead character.

This was 1979. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. He's basically, he based his character off of Fred Blitnikoff and the Raiders and Dave Kasper, who's their tight end. And the first scene, he's like barely can get out of bed pops like 10 pills he's drinking everyone on the team's crazy and so they knew this 40 years ago is my point they knew that football was bad and they knew that guys were behaving radically and that was it and the game became more popular yeah and i don't think in spite of the violence but because of it and um yeah in other

ways we've known for 100 years dementia pugilistica which is the first cousin of ct was discovered in boxers yeah in 1928 um it doesn't take a lot to extrapolate repetitive head injury from the ring to the the gridiron so i think we've known um i'm not one to to i'm not in favor of an anti-state if you want to play i think you should you should absolutely have the opportunity and i don known um i'm not one to to i'm not in favor of an anti-state if you want to play i think you should you should absolutely have the opportunity and i don't um i get being a fan i feel the same way by the way yeah i don't think we have to um hold players hands i don't think we have to make decisions for people um i do think information's still being manipulated um fairly insidiously i think players are intentionally kept in the dark.

I have never once been invited by any football entity, NCAA, NFL, Big Ten, anybody, to speak about what I learned. Well, they don't want to hear from you. No, exactly. And if you were a confident, assured organization and someone made a decision that was counter to what you're saying publicly, you would say, oh, okay, come speak to us. Tell us what you didn't learn.

Tell the players. Inform them. It's basically like if it was cigarettes 50 years ago, they wouldn't be like, hey, this guy had lung cancer and quit. Now he wants to talk to you about cigarettes. Exactly. No, he's not talking. Get him out of here.

And I completely understand, but I'm just making the point that I still think inside the game, players are told one thing that's not entirely true. So you're really skeptical of team doctors, because I am too. Oh, yeah. How is the team paying its own doctor? If I'm a player, I'm getting examined by somebody being paid by the team, and it's in their interest for me to get me back out there as fast as possible. How is that good for me?

Dracula's running the blood bank. That's what we used to say sometimes. And if you look at a doc and the team docs before the game, they're slipping on, they're pull over, they're putting on their cap. They're pumped up. They love it.

They want to beat the other team. They love it. Most guys probably wish they were on the team or had played. And then they're in charge of your health, aside from the financial, who they're paid by and everything. It's about winning. I don't know if there's any way to have independent docs, truly,

because at some juncture, you're going to be hired by somebody whose interest is football. So my thing is broader. I think just open science, just telling everybody what the issue is, if we can have these tests and guys can play for three or four years, um, at the dangerous positions like linebacker. I think if you avoid a catastrophic injury, most guys who played a short period of time will likely be okay, or at least won't have symptoms, symptoms that are traumatic. Hopefully we don't know.

Um, but yeah, I don't think we need to throw away the baby with the bathwater. Football's been great to me. Any given Sunday, that was another, that was 20 years ago? James Woods, the team doctor? It was like what you were talking about. Get him back on, give him a shot. That's all they care about, is getting the guys back on the field. I once was having my hand worked on and my wrist re-taped. And so this was during halftime and didn't have a third hand to take my other Toradol pill.

So the doc opened it and put it in my mouth for me. And I just thought, yeah, shit. I'm a piece of meat. Last but not least from the One Shining pod with Mark Titus and Tate Frazier, we talked about 12 teams that just should be better at college basketball. Everything culminated with the Pacific Ocean rivalry that we really want to start. And it may never start, but who knows? We did our best to try to start it. Loyola Marymount, Pepperdine, two schools that should just be better at college basketball.

Here we go. This is, as in the words of Bill Simmons, what should be the Duke Carolina of college basketball. We have saved, we'll just do them together. Pepperdine and Loyola Marymount. This should be what Duke and Carolina and Louisville, Kentucky have. The Pacific Ocean. Yes.

Would now be, it would move to the West Coast. You have Pepperdine and beautiful Malibu where they had the Battle Network stars. They shot, they were like, what's the most beautiful campus we could shoot the battle network stars on pepperdine pepperdine um it's unbelievable it's on a cliff it's it's you can't even have you been there yet i've not been there no you can't even believe it you can't believe this exists in the world this campus um so you have that and then you have loyal america we should say that's where all the nba players over the summer like you talk about the summer games they play a

bunch of them at pepper because they all live in calabasas and they all use the pepper dine gym and they they carve it out what yeah how are they not how how do you not use this to your advantage exactly so think about recruiting you're like you can watch lebron james kyrie irving kevin durant and stephen curry play play each other this summer. It's like, oh, okay, I'll hang around campus in Malibu. And then they go to Nobu. Yeah. So you got that. You got Pepperdine.

Then you have Loyola Marymount, who had the Hank Gathers, Bo Kimble team, which is still my number one college basketball memory of all time, the left-handed free throw. Best moment for me for college basketball. You have that history. It's in Marina Del Rey. It's on the water. It's a straight drive to the water it's like if holy cross was on the nicest greatest place on the planet it would be loyal to marymount it's right there marina del rey it's off off the side it's a little off the

beaten path um all this silicon valley tech money has gone down there and playa vista and marina del rey beach now is what they're calling it it's it's like one of the hottest areas in the country and now the last pieces of basketball team and they're calling it. Yeah, it's like one of the hottest areas in the country, and now the last piece is a basketball team. And they're in Gonzaga's conference. Either of those schools could take the Gonzaga corner right now. Here's my concern. What you've described makes for, to me, a soft basketball team. Everyone in the Midwest and on the East Coast knows that the LA people are –

Cold weather makes them tougher. You're right. That they are soft. The LA teams are soft. I remember we played Cal one time at Ohio State, and basically that modest pregame speech was like, these guys are soft, just go kick their ass. And that's pretty much all I said, and then we did.

And that was how it worked. I have an extra caveat for you. You're not allowed to drink on the Pepperdine campus. Ooh. I don't know. Is that a good thing? Not allowed to drink. But you can't drink at Nobu Malibu and come back to the Pepperdine campus.

Or you rent a little house in there. But yeah, Malibu and come back to the Pepperdine campus. Or you rent a little house in there. But yeah, no drinking, no partying on the Pepperdine campus. It's like one level higher religious than what Holy Cross was. Loyola Marymount's Jesuit, but I think you can drink on that campus. Not that I would know. I don't mean to sound creepy. I'm guessing. They have so much money at Loyola Marymount, too.

They have a helicopter. They have a helicopter pad as you drive into the school, just in case, like, any of their alumni want to pull up with their helicopter. So, they have the money there. So, like, when these disgraced college basketball coaches come back, like, Patino's going to come back. He'll pick some smaller school, can stay under the radar a little bit. But they never pick a school like Loyola Marymount. It's always some weird school can stay under the radar a little bit but they never pick a school like

loyola marymount it's always some weird school yeah or like some school in the middle of nowhere it's like smu and like schools like that fisher was smart fisher went to san diego state so he was like i'm gonna go live in la jolla and coach at san diego state so there's a good example yeah san diego state they were nobody who the fuck knew what san diego state was then he gets kawaii and they're in the tournament yeah that's a that's a great example by the way san diego state is one of those if we'd done this podcast 10 years ago we would have picked them as one of the 12 and and by the way san diego state when they got to the tournament and played actual teams always got their shit pushed in so kind of kind of lends itself to my theory these teams are too soft yeah i have one

more that i forgot to put on the board. Are we done with Loyola Marin and Pepperdine? We don't have to be. No. I forgot about UC Santa Barbara. Brian Shaw went there. They had a moment. They had a couple of NBA players they produced in the 90s.

For your soft theory, the weather is weirdly not that good in Santa Barbara. The sun never comes out until like 2.30 and it's windy and they have all kinds of weird shit going on uh downtown's cool it's like an hour and a half from la that's another one that what conference are they in are they in santa barbara is are they in the whack yeah i think they are everyone's in the whack everything gets shifted so much from like the whack to the mount west and all this stuff so it's all jumbled that one and then uc ir, which has turned into a really great academic school. And it's had a couple of basketball guys over the years. But that's another one.

There should be two more good California schools is my point. Yeah. Because I think people are getting smarter and smarter on, oh, if I go to college, I should go where there's good weather. Right now- We weren't having that conversation in the 80s. Yeah, people are smarter now because they can figure out and talk to other people yeah they go on the internet they can go watch videos be like oh those people are wearing shorts yeah it's february that's why

i think the pitch is so lorenzo romar is at arizona right now he's the number two guy to sean miller in arizona we don't know what's gonna happen with the fbi but whatever happens lorenzo romar lorenzo romar is getting out of there yeah and he coached at Pepperdine before and brought in a bunch of guys and he is the king of knowing uh Michael Porter Markel Foltz you know the list goes on and on with these guys he's brought into Washington so if he goes to Pepperdine that'll be the sign to point to all of us that Pepperdine is not only back but they're bringing in NBA guys all through Malibu. One bit of Pepperdine trivia. They're the program that killed Bob Knight.

In 2000, right before the 2000 tournament starts, IU's getting ready to play Pepperdine. The video of Knight choking his player surfaces. It becomes a big distraction. IU then loses, and then Knight gets fired not long after that. One more Pepperdine point. That's a good one. One more Pepperdine point. These schools that have like these West Coast schools where they have like the swim team

and the volleyball team and the track team. Athletes always hang around with other athletes. You know how it goes. They're just more comfortable. They're there in weird times. They're practicing in August or like over the holidays. And it's just like, you know, you're on the West Coast. The crop of athletes is a little more enticing.

I'm going to throw that out there for the Pepperdine case. Plus, you usually fly out to Malibu or to Playa Vista to work out when you want to train for the NBA. So all those people or all those trainers and stuff are out here. So it's easy access. And the NBA thing is a thing now that will happen every year. These guys all live here in the summer now, and they played either Calabasas high or pepperdine or ucla those are the three spots that they go to

yeah so pepperdine lmu i think it's the greatest road west coast but i i just don't think you can get in on it i don't know what we have to do but we should make it happen what about could we create since we're just making up conferences now, a PacOcean conference? You have to be touching the PacOcean in some way. It's Seattle, San Francisco, LMU. That's the big four. That's it for the BS podcast. I wanted to thank a whole bunch of people for 2017.

We put up a lot of podcasts. It's a big part of what we do. We've had a huge imprint on it I feel like and the network is growing and becoming more of a force every year you know about the host you know about the people that host the show I wanted to talk about the people behind the scenes

because not only is it hard to produce podcasts but they become for lack of a better word the safety net to make sure if anyone crosses a line if anyone says something dumb, if a podcast just isn't good enough, we have a bunch of people that are just really good at deciding what the best possible version

of a podcast should be. Joe Fuentes, who's been with me since the Grandland days, Zach Mack, nephew Kyle, Kyle Creighton, who a year and a half ago, I made a move here to work on my TV show as a PA. And all of a sudden he's editing major podcasts, but he's really good at it. More importantly, it makes my wife happy. So that's probably my favorite hire of the past two years. Young Isaac, Isaac Lee right here doing this podcast. Started out as an intern, has worked all the way up and we've given him probably way too much responsibility already.

Jim Cunningham, the star of Top Gun Live. That's what it's called. Tom Gun Live. Tom Gun Live. Yeah. Tom Gun Live. Also somebody that's been with us since the Grant Land days. Keenan, the intern, who was super helpful the last few months.

And then last but not least, Tay Frazier, who has done my podcast since day one. I think he's done the first one. There's been a couple guest producers, but for the most part, it's been me and Tate. And it's been a blast to watch him also become a host. And now he does the Ringer NFL show as well as One Shining podcast with Tate and Titus, which we just played a section of. So anyway, it's a good team. We have a lot of good stuff in store for 2018

that I'm excited about. Because you know what you don't want to do? It's just be on the hamster wheel and keep doing the same thing. We're going to take some chances in 2018. We might even have Shea Serrano do a podcast. We'll see if we can convince him. He's been playing hard to get for like two years.

But it's been a great year on the podcast front. And for me personally, the best year of podcasts that I've ever done, the guests we've had have been unbelievable. And I don't even know how to rank the top 12, but Tommy Alter and I, who's another person I should thank, who's been booking this podcast,

but doing more than that. He also helps produce and he's talent relations basically. And he's been awesome. And he's been a big asset to this podcast, but doing more than that. He also helps produce and he's talent relations basically. And he's been awesome and has been a big asset to this podcast. We have had by far the best list of guests that we've ever had on any year I've had. I've been doing this podcast since 2007. Some great conversations. Most recently, the one this week with Paul Thomas Anderson, which I could have gone for like three to four hours, but it's been fun to just keep working at this thing and try to get better and better at it. And I feel like our pod was just,

it was the best year I've had. And next year I want to do even more. So thanks to everybody out there. And special thanks to all the sponsors that we've had over the course of the year who all pay for stuff and also have been really good to work with. Specifically SeatGeek,

who has been sponsoring this thing since the get-go. And it's been fun to watch them grow as a company too. I feel like we've played a tiny part of it, tiny, small, infinitesimal, I don't know. But to watch them become an even bigger force than they certainly were when we started to work with them, that's been cool. And it's an app that I've used and continue to use. So thanks to them. Thanks to everyone at The Ringer.

So proud of everything we were able to accomplish in 2017. And on to 2018. Thanks for listening. Thanks for spreading the word. And look forward to talking to you again in 2018. See them on the wayside Never said I don't have feelings with them On the wayside Never said I don't have feelings with them