The Bill Simmons Podcast - Milwaukee Blows It Up, and Miami’s Big Move With Kevin O’Connor and Joe House, Plus, a Celtics/Patriots Report With Bill’s Dad
Episode Date: January 24, 2024The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House and Kevin O'Connor to discuss the Bucks firing coach Adrian Griffin just 43 games into his first season, and the Heat trading for Terry Rozier (5:16), ...before discussing possible trade deadline teams, including the 76ers, Knicks Clippers, Mavericks, Nets, Hawks, and more (25:30). Then, Bill’s Dad gives his Boston sports report on the state of the Celtics, the post-Belichick Patriots, and the cheapskate Red Sox (1 : 11:53). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Kevin O'Connor, and Bill's Dad Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Coming up, chaos in Milwaukee, some NBA trades, and a Boston sports report next.
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Coming up,
Kevin O'Connor and Joe House
talking about everything
that went on in Milwaukee today.
Adrian Griffin fired after 43 games
and they hired a new coach,
which I'll get to in one second.
And then I brought my dad on
after we talked NBA for an hour
with House and KFC. I brought my dad on after we talked NBA for an hour with House and
KFC. I brought my dad on to give his Boston sports report. It had not happened in a while.
So he gave his thoughts on going all the Celtic games, what the Patriots are like post-Belichick,
our Red Sox fans mad at the Red Sox, and so on. So this is an action-packed pod. It's also a sad pod for me because I lost Doc Rivers.
He was supposed to be on this podcast every three weeks during the regular season.
And then the playoffs, we're going to amp it up to every two weeks.
We're going to be doing live shows.
And it all went sideways because he was hired to replace Adrian Griffin as the Milwaukee Bucks coach. It's interesting because I've actually become friends with Doc and I've spent a little time with him. And it really seemed like he was enjoying not having a coach. doing ESPN games, flying around, popping in, talking on a mic for a couple hours
with Doris and Mike Breen.
And then he was doing this podcast every once in a while.
He was spending more time with his grandkids.
He was playing golf.
He was absolutely loving not coaching.
But, you know, he's been in basketball his whole life
and he's been in the NBA really since the early 80s, give or take one or two years where he wasn't coaching.
I just think people are wired a certain way.
If you're a competitive MF-er, and you think you're done, and now I'm going to rule out, I'm not going to coach, And then all of a sudden, there's Milwaukee, there's Giannis,
one of the 20 best players of all time who's already won a title.
There's Milwaukee, where he went to college.
There's Dame, who's never even gotten in the finals.
There's a team that seems like it's off for whatever reason.
Can you fix it?
And your juices start flowing, and all of a sudden, there you go. All of a sudden, you're
the coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. This is, I guess, what happens to the super duper competitive NBA
people. You can't resist a challenge. I am really bummed because I absolutely loved doing the pod
with them. I'm sure we'll do a couple more down the road, but I'm going to really miss having him on the podcast.
And it's going to be weird to wish him well on Milwaukee,
a team that my favorite team has to try to beat
for the rest of the season and in the playoffs.
But best of luck to our guy, Doc Rivers.
That's it.
I'm down to two rivers on the Ringer Podcast Network.
I guess we're going to have to negotiate with on the ringer podcast network. I guess,
I guess we're going to have to negotiate with other members of the rivers family.
Good luck doc.
All right,
let's bring a pro jam. All right, so I waited to tape my podcast on Tuesday
until a little later because I felt like something was going down today,
but I thought it was going to be a trade.
And then Terry Rozier and Kyle Lowry, that trade happens.
I'm like, oh, okay, that's good enough.
We'll get that going, little Lakers Clippers tonight.
And then Adrian Griffin gets fired out of nowhere.
And I'm doing a documentary shoot that all of a sudden my phone starts blowing up.
43 games.
And then Kevin O'Connor, Joe Hauser here.
I went from being like, holy shit,
I can't believe they,
and then the Doc Rivers stuff started.
And I was like, oh my God,
Doc's only been on this podcast five times.
I love having Doc Rivers.
It's been so much fun.
You're taking Doc Rivers from me?
KOC, help, explain any of this to us.
I mean, I'm mostly disappointed
that Doc is going to be ripped away
from you he's been great this year so it's too bad but um look i think for the bucks that this
has been going on a long time with them like it first started before the season terry stotts gets
berated he walks away from the team earlier in the season four games in the bucks veterans asked
that asked griffin to change the defensive scheme back to having
Brooke Lopez and drop. They were playing a very aggressive scheme that resembled what the Raptors
were doing where Griffin was an assistant in recent years. So they go back to dropping with
Brooke Lopez, but everything else is pretty much the same. Giannis and Portis are switching on
ball screens more than they ever have. They're playing aggressive. Their pick-up point on ball handlers
is higher than it was before.
And by pulling these bigger defenders,
Giannis Portis, away from the paint,
they are giving up more offensive rebounds
than ever before.
They're allowing more at-rim chances
than ever before.
And I know the counter-argument
to all of the defensive issues for the Bucs...
Wait, hold on, KFC.
You're not seeing the force through the trees here.
We saw it in Vegas and we both did podcasts when we were there and we were like,
something's off with this team.
It wasn't just the defensive stuff.
It,
it seemed like Giannis was out and we were sitting there watching it going,
what's going on?
Why isn't he in the huddle?
We talked,
why isn't I talked about it that night? We talked, Waz and I talked about it that
night. We're like, something is wrong. What is it? So you think it was all the defensive stuff
or was it more than that? I mean, I think the tactical side of things is what played into the
lack of trust and belief in him. Yeah. I think for the team we saw earlier in the year where
Giannis or maybe it was Griffin after a game, admitted that Giannis changed the play call that he made.
We saw Giannis early in the season refuse to sub out of the game.
I think early in the year, it's all tactical-driven decisions.
The system changes that were made that made the team say,
wait a minute here, what are we doing?
We were just a dominant defense for five straight years.
We had no issues allowing at-rim chances
and now everything's changing all of a sudden.
Yeah, but KSC, one of the reasons they were a dominant defense
was because they had Drew Holiday on their team
and not Dame Lillard House.
We talked about this when we did over-unders.
It's like, cool, Dame Lillard, good end-of-the-game guy,
25 to 30 points a game, couldn't guard us.
So are you surprised
that
it went this bad this fast?
Or did you think this was an after the season thing?
Well, I do think that
Dame probably could guard us.
I do think that.
Well, you just got your hip replaced.
So maybe...
And some other parts.
But look, I will say this um when you have the kind of uh expression of of lack of confidence so early on i mean koc was running through the litany of questionable team commitment.
And Bobby Portis called the coach out during the in-game tournament.
Like after that, like that was December.
You can't call the brand new coach out.
So there was definitely something in terms of that relationship between the coach.
He failed the most important
task. The number one task
upon arrival, get by
him. Get the guys on
your side. And then he fires Terry Stotts
or Terry Stotts leaves or whatever
happened. I guess Terry Stotts decided to exit
stage right before the season even started.
And Dane was clearly
bummed out about that. Giannis was clearly bummed out about that.
Giannis was clearly bummed out about all the Griffin defensive stuff.
So we didn't even start the season and people are upset.
Right.
Yeah.
So here we are.
Well, here's my take, guys.
I think yet again, we have learned that maybe NBA players,
especially NBA players like under 30 years old,
might not be the best guys to decide
who should be on the team
and who should be coaching it.
Because Giannis,
they push out Coach Bud.
I don't know who was responsible for that,
but I don't think you run decisions like that
without running it through your superstar.
And then the Dame trade was the other one where
Giannis wouldn't sign the extension until they did something. You got to do something. So they
do this Dame trade and you look at what Miami gave up for Rozier today. I'm not saying Rozier
is better than Dame, but they gave up what, 25% of what they were ready to give up for Dame.
They got to keep Hawkins. They got to keep other first round picks. And they end up with
Rogier, who's going to give them 80% of the offensive production at Dame, better defense,
and they still have all these other assets to do stuff. So I think with Giannis, sometimes
superstars in the NBA can become too powerful. And I wonder, in this case, were they so afraid
of losing him that that leads
to decision A, decision B, decision
C, and now they're basically reset-butting it?
I don't think you could bring in
any coach, and I don't
think it's going to fix some of the defensive stuff.
Do you think KOC... I mean, Dame's been one of the worst
defensive players in the league for the last couple years, out of
all the starters, right? That's where I disagree,
though. I think with Drew Holiday,
if he were still on this team,
the Bucs would be worse.
One of the reasons why they
have a record as good as they do
is because Giannis has
dragged them to some victories.
Dame has made heroic shots
and end of games
like he did earlier this month
with that overtime logo three
against the Kings.
Like those guys,
Giannis and Dame have just
overcome some of the issues they've had.
And so like with, so you would say Dame has too, I know they've stolen some games at the end,
but I think for the most part, he's been pretty hit or miss. Like he's had a bunch of three for
17s, four for 16s. He's gotten lit up by, I mean, Indiana, that's like, they have the Milwaukee
game circled on their calendar because it's so much fun for Halliburton.
So I don't know.
I feel on the one hand, like I see what you're saying.
But on the other hand, it's like, all right, well, you do have Giannis and he's been healthy the whole year.
You're probably going to have around this record anyway.
I just don't think Drew Holiday is solving all of the defensive issues they have.
I guess he'd help at the point of attack.
That's for sure.
They've struggled with Dame. Dame has never been a stopper. He's not even hustling back on defense enough. Malik Beasley
is worse than Grayson Allen for that matter. And Pat Connaughton has not been productive this year.
So their point of attack defense is weak. But because their point of attack defense is weak,
the way they're playing by pulling Giannis and Bobby Portis away from the
rim, the way they intended on having Robert, Brooke Lopez away from the rim earlier in the
season. And it's a creative situation where they don't have as much size inside to stop that,
that penetration that's occurring. They don't have as much size inside to inside to get defensive
rebounds. They're worse this year than they've ever been under Bud. So I think for the Bucs, it's all of these things combined. And yes, Drew Holiday would
help, but he wouldn't be the complete cure for their issues.
House, you can't say it's just Drew Holiday, though, because it's Drew Holiday. It's Grayson
Allen, who's been, I wasn't a fan heading into the season, but he has been one of the best three
point shooters in the league this year, plus the other assets that they gave up, which crippled them. So now they have nothing they
can trade. I mean, they can't really move any of their first-round picks. So I guess the question
is, House, would you still do the Dame trade? Or would you rather have Drew Holiday, Grayson Allen,
whatever else they gave up, all the picks and the flexibility to maybe go get Terry Rozier,
to maybe get some of the pieces
that are going to be available in February
because I was on the record when
it happened. I didn't like the Dame trade
and I thought people were really
underestimating
his defense. So where do you stand
43 games in?
I like the Dame trade and I think
it still has a very good chance
of proving out.
We are going to have that referendum now, right?
We're 41 games in, whatever, 43 games in.
Now we're going to see, because to KOC's point, this team lost a core concept, a core identity.
They're 25th in opponent points in the paint this season.
They were 13th in that category last year.
They're 23rd in opponent fast break points.
They were 8th in that category last year.
So teams, they can't protect the paint,
and teams are getting out and running on them.
And that is a function of scheme.
There is some kind of mismatch going on there
between the personnel that they have
and what Griffin was trying to do.
So we expect that Doc will come in,
be a stabilizing influence,
and figure out a way.
If it's Doc, sure, we'll keep using that caveat
until it becomes Doc.
But look, we're going to figure it out.
The thing that we knew for sure, and I do give the Bucs credit for this,
this team was going nowhere in the playoffs.
This version, playing the way that they were playing,
we didn't need to see any more games, and they didn't either.
It's why they were going to practices.
You know, the report, was it Mark Spears was saying,
you know, the front office was showing up at practice the last two weeks to walk on the floor.
Chris Haynes.
It was Chris Haynes on the floor watching Griffin conduct these practices.
They're like, you know what?
We're not going anywhere in the playoffs with this iteration.
We must do something different.
I still wonder if they if there isn't.
They need a body.
They still need a body to my way of thinking.
There's this new rule with the signing buyout guys that if they make over
$12.4 million, you can't
if you're over those aprons, you can't even sign
him. No about that rule today.
So Kelly Olenek's at like $12.2
he's kind of, you should almost call it the Kelly
Olenek whatever.
House, you say all that.
Milwaukee Bucks on FDuel right now.
Plus 220 to win the conference.
Are you taking that?
Yeah, thumbs down. That's what I thought.
I'm close. I already bet this.
I bet it today. I'll tell you who I bet.
Who'd you bet?
The Miami Heat at 13-1.
The reigning Eastern Conference champions.
The undisputed Eastern Conference.
They won two of the last four.
If you go back 10 years,
look at all the times the Heat have won the Eastern Conference.
13-1 right now with Rozier in that mix.
I know, it's ridiculous.
They have another move to make.
They kept their powder dry.
There's still a move for the Heat.
So I'll stop now.
I love the Heat.
I tried not to tweet about, um, the Rozier trade too much. Cause I knew I was going to talk about today in the podcast, but
I mean, Miami was always the team I was afraid of in the East. Um, we'll see what the Philly
trade is. I'm not there with Philly yet. I know Embiid looked awesome against Zach Collins and a
200 pound French guy last night, but until he does it in the playoffs once,
I'm just not going to get super scared.
Sorry.
And with that said, I've loved how it beats playing this year.
I'm just saying, I don't think they have enough yet.
Miami was the sleeping giant for me.
This Rozier-Lowry trade was so obvious
that I talked about it in detail on my podcast on Thursday.
It was just the most obvious trade.
It was the best home for him.
Rozier's playing great.
And Lowry was a complete bust for them
for the last like 12 games.
I mean, he was one of the worst players in the league.
So upgrade, plus they kept a little left.
And I still feel like as a Celtic fan,
as somebody that follows the league,
Miami to me is still the threat.
And Philly, I know
they haven't beaten Maxie. Milwaukee, I know they have Giannis, I know they have Dame, but I'm still
afraid of Miami the most. Who are you most afraid of if you're Boston in the East? Definitely Miami,
the way Jimmy Butler levels up his play in the postseason. And I think that's a big part of it.
What he did against the Bucks last year in the first round, Drew Holiday even couldn't stop him at that point.
We just saw that a couple months ago with Jimmy Butler
just getting through Drew Holiday with ease.
So I don't think there's really a lot of answers for him
on the Boston side or any side with the way he levels up.
So I think that Rozier acquisition, you're right, Bill,
talking about him last week.
Think about what he was when he was in Boston.
He was nowhere near as efficient as a shooter.
And he is now a better decision maker now than he was then.
I can't wait to see him playing with the most talent that he's had by his side since he was a young player in Boston.
Like the bam out of bio two man game that they could have with Rozier.
That could be nasty.
So I think with with rogier he we
said it all year on the mismatch show like one of the more underrated trade targets in the entire
league and the heat getting them for what they did feels like a major steal you can't bet yeah
because especially like pretty cheap contract right he's like 22 a year part of the problem
with the dame contract is you were all in with that point. You're paying 50,
52, 55, 60. You're giving up every asset you have. And if it doesn't 100% work out,
you're in the situation Milwaukee's in now, where it's like, okay, this isn't totally working out
and we have no moves whatsoever. Rozier, with the size of that contract, he's movable if it
doesn't totally work out. I don't know why it wouldn't work out, though.
Yeah, but how much of the Dame analysis, how much of that, again, is due to Griffin?
Like, Giannis and Dame run like 10 pick and rolls a game.
They don't run dribble handoffs together.
Dame is not using the type of dynamic offensive role that he had with Portland.
So, yes, Dame's numbers are slightly down offensively.
Yes, he is a weaker defender than Drew, Dame's numbers are slightly down offensively. Yes,
he is a weaker defender than Drew Holiday was. They are down. They are, especially compared to last season when he posted career highs across the board. But how much of that is due to the fact
that despite how good the Dame Giannis pick and roll has been, they're just not doing enough of
it. So I don't know. I think with Dame, I also want to, I want to wait there
and see what the new coach
does with him
because like Dame,
I still think there's way more
that they can get out of him
to even properly assess
what that Bucks decision
looks like in hindsight
because I still was in favor
of them getting Dame.
Drew Holiday,
he puts up Eric Bledsoe
type of numbers
in the postseason.
He has not been a great
postseason performer on offense.
He has not stopped the guys
that he needs to
like Jimmy Butler. He did. For sure. postseason performer on offense. He has not stopped the guys that he needs to. Eh, won a title.
Jimmy Butler.
He did.
For sure.
Produced in the finals.
For sure.
But ever since then.
I mean, like Giannis last year, one of the reasons why he.
Better than Dame.
But one of the reasons why Giannis threw Bud under the bus after they lost in the first round,
because he wanted a chance to defend Butler because Drew Holiday, this all-world defender, wasn't able
to get stops. House, I have to do this and I'm going to give it a big, proper, just,
I don't want this to get aggregated without people pointing out that this is just a theory.
Giannis, probably Coach Bud's blood on his hands.
Adrian Griffin, probably his blood on his hands.
That's true.
Drew Holiday's blood and Grayson Allen's blood all over his hands.
Does Giannis get enough credit for just being a coach teammate killer?
Should he be put on the elite list of people who's just wreaked havoc on their own franchises. Because we all love Giannis.
He seems like a great guy.
But man, imagine if like, I don't know, if Kevin Durant was doing this.
And it's like Kevin Durant's had two coaches fired in an eight-month span and made all these trades.
We'd be like, oh, Katie.
Giannis, like nothing.
Crickets.
I mean, they are 33-10.
And he was injured in the first round of the playoffs
against the heat last year they they lost because he was hurt he played hurt and i don't mind you
know he he's i i love how uh i'm gonna do glass half full here okay he he's trying to make things happen he's he understands he's not
gonna sit idly by and say let's just try and get marginally better on the margins uh year over year
let's take big swings i want to win every single year i don't want to have to come in here and have
to answer a question to this reporter about is it a failure that we lost in
the first round of the playoffs yes it's a goddamn failure we we should be trying to win the
championship every year because i'm the best player in the world or maybe the second best but
look that's fine and and him urging the uh organization to take another path in terms of the coach, fine.
And making a pivot right away.
It's not working.
33-10 is excellent.
And getting Dame is excellent.
And we can't win with what we have right now.
Let's make a change.
I'm fine with it.
Well, when you say big swing, by the way, they're 30-13. I'm fine with it. Well, when you say big swing,
by the way, they're 30 and 13.
I know you're old,
but I just wanted to correct that for you.
30 and 13 is a little different than 33 and 10.
Okay.
I know we're both old.
I make plenty of those mistakes. So I'm going to cut you some slack on that.
When you say taking big swings,
do you mean like hiring Adrian Griffin over Nick Nurse?
How do we explain that one now, KOC?
I mean, that almost looks worse than any single Bucs move.
Right?
A terrible decision.
Nick Nurse has been pretty solid on the Sixers.
Won a title once upon a time.
They're like, no, let's go with this guy who's never coached before.
Yeah, Mark Stein had on his sub stack today said that Giannis' motivation
behind the Griffin call for him
was just he was just like never Nick Nurse.
He just didn't want to have Nick Nurse
as his head coach.
I guess they didn't click when they met.
But I mean, with Griffin...
I guess when you're a coach and teammate killer,
it's tough.
I'm still joking.
Don't aggregate this.
We're taking a break. Come back, talk a lot more.
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All right.
So the Celtics are 34 and 10.
Milwaukee's 30 and 13.
And Philly's 29 and 13.
Cleveland somehow is lingering as the four-seeded, 26 and 15.
Nobody can figure this
out. Milwaukee's record feels like it should be about four wins less. They've stolen some games
late, but on the other hand, now maybe they go on a run. The Philly piece of this, Embiid's been
incredible. The game last night, it really felt like he could get 80. He's making 20 footers and 25 footers
and he's spinning around.
He's just getting fouled.
He makes every free throw he takes.
He is the most unfoulable big man we've had
because it's just like,
he's just going to get two points immediately.
In the other hand, it was San Antonio,
but he has looked awesome.
What, KFC, what does that team need?
If you're the GM or you're the advisor,
and it seems like they have spots basically for two trades.
They could have done like a Rozier type trade.
They could still get an Alex Caruso type of person.
They could get somebody in the,
they could get like a Bogdanovich from Detroit.
Maybe they could go all in on a
DeJounte Murray. I'm figuring, let's say you give them a starter and a bench player in the trade
market. Who are the ideal two people you would look at? I'd want to be looking for an upgrade
over Tobias Harris and Anthony Melton. Those guys have been solid this year for the Sixers,
to be clear. They've been rock solid. But if you're looking for that third creation option, you have the Embiid Maxey two-man
game.
But who is going to be the Michael Porter Jr. or the Aaron Gordon to the Jokic Murray
two-man?
Who's that guy?
Gordon for the Nuggets we saw.
He was beaten up on mismatches, on post-ups.
Michael Porter Jr. can go go off who's that guy for
the sixers so i think like the number one guy that like besides terry rosier who did make a
heck of a lot of sense um zach levine being the other big name player that people talk about ksc
is like his last but no he's no i'm not i mean you're on zach levine island no admit it you
have like you have a property there you have like a small beach house on levine island no i'm intrigued by what he would
look like playing with a player of the level of mb but would he be the guy that i'd go for
not necessarily i'd rather wait and hold on to cap space this summer and figure things out then
but if i if i'm the sixers i want a like a Caruso, just somebody who can fit into that system
or DeMar DeRozan even, rather than Levine, expiring contract, add a little bit of a mid-range,
and he's been shooting more threes than ever before. I'd be going for DeRozan-Caruso,
that combination, because that gives you the defense. It gives you the creation. It gives
you the hustle with Caruso. It gives you the creation. It gives you the hustle with Caruso.
It gives you the experience with DeRozan.
So you're thinking like that's Tobias Harris,
Marcus Morris' contract, and some picks and a swap,
and you get both of those guys.
Something along those lines where you get that because there's no overlap between DeMar DeRozan and Tyrese Maxson.
There are different types of scorers with the way they generate buckets. So crunch time, you're going Embiid, Batum,
DeRozan, Caruso, and Maxey? That sounds
pretty good, right? What do you think, Cass? Yeah, it does sound pretty good.
I was kind of surprised in the context of
the Hornets in this kind of teardown mode, and I'm going to lose
so much money on my Hornets over 30 wins bet.
Well, that was the day we said that during the over under pod.
That was the stupidest fucking.
No, that one wasn't.
That one wasn't the dumbest.
The dumbest was the Wizards.
But that was near your Wizards.
The Hornets have talent.
The Hornets have talent.
They just can't all be healthy on the same floor.
But the name that I show up, I saw show up today and in a potential combo deal with the Suns, which I still don't understand, how could the Suns have anything left to give anybody, is Miles Bridges on the Sixers, that to me is super intriguing. That's a guy that can get tough buckets.
And what that team needs, to me, end of game, five minutes left, four minutes left,
it's why DeRozan is a great call in terms of a fit.
He can get buckets.
He doesn't need the ball all the time.
I think Bridges would be incredible on this team.
My number one pick is DeRozan.
I was just watching him.
Didn't they play last night?
Yeah.
Guess who can still get really good shots
in the last five minutes of a game?
DeRozan.
Also, two-point shots,
which, you know, honestly,
is the biggest flaw of the Celtics right now.
We saw it on Friday night in that Denver game.
Just Denver's ability to just get good shots in the last five minutes of a game,
which is their biggest skill.
That's their superpower.
Just every shot I like.
And Boston, for 43, 44 minutes, I love all the shots I get.
Last four minutes, everything slows down.
KP is over on the side now like he
was in Dallas. He's not involved at all. The guards aren't involved. Then it's Tatum and Brown
and it's one-on-one stuff and it's just not smart basketball. And that's why I think they have nine
losses, KOC, and eight, they were tied in the last two minutes. But I really worry about their
ability to execute. If the Sixers got DeRozan, now you're protected
because I think you can shut down two scorers,
Embiid and Max.
I know Embiid's having a great year.
I know Max is really good.
But if I'm only worrying about two guys, I'm fine.
But now if I have a third guy that can take the pressure off,
who can go for 35 in a game three,
where it's like, oh, we didn't even need Embiid and Max tonight.
DeRozan went nuts.
I just think he would fit in with what they do. And the only thing I would say about getting rid
of Tobias, who I think has been in trade rumors now for 10 years, awesome teammate, knows his role,
doesn't really care if he gets shots. He's 17 a game. He could probably do a little bit better
than that. And I'd be really hesitant. This team seems like it really likes each other. The contrast, I know you talked
about it on the mismatch last night, KFC, but the contrast between Embiid chasing 70 versus
Towns chasing 70 and what was going on with that Minnesota team was night and day. That whole
Philly team, they were going for it for Embiid. They were all locked in. They really wanted it.
And I don't know, man, when your chemistry is good,
the Celtics are in the same spot.
They have awesome chemistry.
It's going to be really hard for them to make a deal.
It's going to have to be cosmetic.
But I think DeRozan, I think we're all aligned.
Levine is the home run swing,
but I think the downside is too risky for what his contract is, right?
What's his contract, KFC? He currently is being paid $40 million and this is the first of four
years remaining. So he's going to be making near 50 by the end of that. And for what it's worth,
Bill, I just pulled up the trade machine. They don't need to give up Tobias Harris in that deal.
Let's say they were to get
derose and ann caruso they'd be taking in 38 million dollars they could get to 36 million
with morris so you do coming in and morris and oh interesting so you could get to the
and you could keep harris in that situation oh my god so that's my nightmare as a celtic fan
at that that trade right there what are they. What are they giving the Bulls?
What do the Bulls get for that?
Just a lot of picks and some swaps and expirings.
Oh, they're going to do a wizard's plan.
They're going to become the wizards.
Okay.
I guess my question with the Bulls, I know this is crazy,
but I'm not positive I would do anything unless it was an awesome trade.
I kind of like the Bulls.
They're 9 right now. They're 21 and 24. I get it was an awesome trade. I kind of like the Bulls. Like, they're nine right now.
They're 21 and 24.
I get it.
But they sucked in the beginning of the year.
I think they have a chance,
potentially, to climb to seven or eight.
And I wouldn't want to see them in a one-game whatever.
I actually think they're pretty good.
Like, in my house, you're making a face.
If you watch the Bulls, like, they're pretty good.
They're the same as last year.
They were three minutes away
from knocking the Heat
out of the playoffs.
I know.
Because Kobe White's
totally different
than he was last year.
I don't think they're the same.
I think they're
largely the same.
Well,
KOC,
they're the trade machine team
this year because
if they say,
fuck it,
now Vucevic might be available.
He makes sense on a bunch of different teams.
The Rosen, if they can get rid of Levine.
Patrick Williams, who they have to figure out how to pay.
I guess you've already dove into this draft.
It's probably the worst draft in 11 years, right?
It's the worst draft since 2013.
Has there been a worse draft?
Yeah.
It's like the worst draft of the century was 2000.
The second worst draft is
2013 and this is the third
worst draft. Yeah, it's just
I mean, it's I think I think in the middle
of the draft, there's like good quality role
players that you can add alongside a star
but but there's not necessarily
that that face of your franchise
in this year's draft.
So I guess we it's weak power
especially i know exactly how this is going down exactly how you can get the fourth pick in the
draft and you're getting like a project it's like it's it's a bad draft for the wizards but it's a
good draft for like a team like the thunder where like you can add a role player to enhance an SGA and Chet Holmgren,
that type of situation.
It's bad for you, House.
I'm sorry.
Sorry, House.
This is a multi-year project.
It's fine.
The poor Pistons, it's probably bad for.
From a Celtics standpoint,
I just think Pritchard,
they got to fix that.
You could feel it in the Denver game.
Even my dad was saying it because my dad went to that game. He was like, Pritchard was they got to fix that. You could feel it in the Denver game. Even my dad was saying it because my dad went to that game.
He was like, Pritchard was just too small in that game.
You know, he's playing big minutes.
And there was a couple moments in that game where it was reaching.
We got to put the real guys back in because this lineup's not working territory.
But I think they need a guard with size to come off the bench so they have more
length at all times. And I'm not sure who that person is. Do you have any idea, KFC?
He doesn't have length, but Tyus Jones from the Wizards.
Oh, you beat me to it. I was going to do a quiz. I wanted to do a quiz. I wanted to say,
who leads the NBA in assist to turnover ratio? And I wanted KOC probably would have got it.
Tyus Jones.
Yeah, he's going to be an awesome
role player. He just isn't very big.
And I'll say this very
quietly because I absolutely
admire him. And he
has made an immediate
good impression here in the
D.C. area. He doesn't really play
any defense. He can't really play any defense.
Maybe it's the system in Washington,
but he's too small.
Well, I'll tell you,
he's in a lot of their worst lineups.
So if you look at the four-man road type,
four-man best and worst,
five-man best and worst.
They're all bad lineups.
Yeah, I was going to say,
what's the best lineup?
They're all worst lineups.
He's in the really bad lineups.
KOC, did, did what happened
with Towns last night make you think we can't rule him out for the trade deadline? Um, I mean,
his coach, I don't want to say his coach threw him under the bus. I think his coach was driving
the bus and just kept backing up over him and then running over him and backing up again.
I've never seen that in my life.
Yeah, it was like he was playing Grand Theft Auto, just, you know, a character back over and over again.
But like that press conference was something else.
It was unparalleled.
That's never the press.
I also had the game on because I was watching basketball last night with my dad and Towns was at like 40. So we put it on and it was the unhappiest run to 70 points I've
ever watched. And then they benched him and I was Googling. I thought we missed him fouling out.
And I'm like, I'm looking at the box score, his two fouls. I'm searching on Twitter and it's just
like Towns benched? Towns benched. And it was a bunch of those.
But I promise that's never happened in the history of the NBA before. A guy getting benched when he has 62 points, much less 52, much less 42. What's the lowest, highest point total to get benched?
It'd have to be at least, I don't know, 38. So you don't think you're not a little concerned
about your T-wolves there i mean look
at the beginning of the season i said to verno that i think towns is the guy they're gonna have
to trade in order to become a championship contender but he's done everything that he
needed to do this year he's been good on defense he's he's filled his role offensively but last
night like a lot of that stuff came back up like it was was an immature team. Like Finch said, after the game,
they played an immature style.
There was the report about how at halftime they saw him beat had 70 and
they're like,
Ooh,
we get to go get,
you know,
cat more than that.
So I worry about that team's maturity level.
And maybe that will have to come this off season,
but I can't imagine it in the weeks ahead.
That's amazing.
He's not on the wizard's house.
Give it time.
The crazy thing is, how can Mike Conley be that important?
Like, he is literally the only adult on that team.
Like, they don't have to.
And it's true.
Look at the roster.
There's nobody else that could come in there and be like,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Let's win this basketball game.
The most important thing tonight is to win the basketball game.
So it's fourth quarter.
Let's do the things that help us win the best.
This is great.
K-A-T.
Awesome.
You shut the lights out.
It looked great.
Now let's win the effing basketball game.
And not one person because Conley wasn't there.
That's bad.
They need one more.
I don't know what adults are going to be available,
but they need another adult before we start taking that team
like legit seriously come springtime.
Well, it's not a lot to trade for them.
They basically have the Kyle Anderson expiring
and they could do some seconds, I guess,
but I don't think they have
a ton. I got to say the
more I watch them, and I've been pretty
fascinated by them, I'm not positive.
Like if you told me this team is going to make the finals or this team is
going to lose in the first round and you gave me odds for both,
I think I would pick first round.
Wow.
Over the finals.
I don't think that's a controversial take because making the finals is nuts.
But to me,
I still feel like the seesaw is a little more,
and I think the wolves are
really good. They're 30 and 13, but there's a knucklehead factor with them that cannot be
overlooked. We've just seen it too many times with the NBA, these teams that look good on paper.
And then all of a sudden you're down, you know, two, one in a game four and guys are chucking
up shots. And it's like, holy shit, this, the carpet's being pulled out from under us right now.
Who is going to grab the steering wheel?
And it's like Anthony Nairb is like, I got it.
He's 22.
Or Towns is like, clear out, I got it.
And now all of a sudden you're down 3-1,
and there's an athletic piece about,
oh, the team's worried about the Chris Finch in the play.
We know this.
We know how this goes.
Go ahead, House.
To be fair, did you see the last two-minute report from that game?
Well, Collins got murdered on the last drive.
I couldn't believe that.
There were 12 missed calls.
I don't know if that's a record.
Somebody should look it up and see.
Twelve missed calls in the last two minutes.
And yes, they greatly benefited the Hornets.
I don't know.
Maybe the NFL ref that's got the Chiefs game
also did the last
two minutes a lot of conspiracies
out there right now oh my lord
um Knicks
would be the other one that
could greatly benefit from one more move
and are kind of lurking here at the in the
five seed but
I don't know how to take them seriously
unless it's not a giant trade
with Randall in it.
And I don't know who that's for unless it's for towns.
Is there any sort of Randall trade?
Do you have in your head?
KFC?
What about,
uh,
Evan Forney a trade?
Like,
well,
I don't think it has to be Randall necessarily.
You got 40 a making $18 million,
you know,
flip him for Bruce Brown,
who already has said,
I'm a Tom Thibodeau player.
He talked about it openly, which was surprising.
Maybe he actually said that in front of the media.
But I don't think you need to.
I'm not a big Randall guy.
But at the same time, you see what Randall is when he's actually turning it up
and he's playing at 11 and not, you know, in his mopey mode,
which he gets into sometimes. I think you've got to give it a try with Randall at the level he's playing at 11 and not in his mopey mode, which he gets into sometimes. I think you've got
to give it a try with Randall at the level he's playing at right now. He's been better than he's
ever been, even his all-NBA season. So if you can flip the Fournier contract, to me, that's the move.
And then you reassess the summer with that Randall deal, depending on how the postseason goes.
Yeah, it'd be irresponsible not to trade Fournier. This was an issue the Celtics had, remember, at the late 2010s where they never had the
$16 to $20 million expiring to put in trades and add stuff to.
And that Fournier thing, to be able to get up to like $22 million of somebody.
To me, how's Bogdanovich on Detroit is the great stealth prize right now.
Rozier was the great stealth prize, but he just
went. But Bogdanovich is somebody
like that's somebody for Philly too. We talked
about
two scores is not quite enough.
Harris is putting up points, but I wouldn't say
he's somebody that you'd run plays for at the end of a game.
Bogdanovich can come in
and run your
offense for like four or five minutes
and he could run an entire second unit.
And it's just, he's been in big games
and is the type of guy that I think for the Knicks would really help.
I think Philly would be amazing.
I'm trying to think, there's one other team.
Well, Phoenix can't get anybody.
But what do you think about Donovan Chess?
I totally agree.
And he absolutely
checks the box in terms of
ready for that moment, ready for
playoff, game-winning, making
a real contribution. You had him.
Come playoff time. I know. And he was very
good. Yeah, you loved him. House loved
Bogdanovich. I wanted them to resign
him. I mean, that run where we
took the Celtics to game
seven, he was important in that.
It's funny that you wanted the Wizards
to overspend on somebody
versus how it usually went, where the
Wizards would overspend on somebody
and you would be horrified. But in
that case, you actually would not have been horrified
because you liked Bogdanovich. And of course,
they let that guy go. At least
it feels like you're winning the Bradley Beal trade.
Oh no,
you're not winning that trade either.
We did win.
He's not on the team.
That's,
that was the win that you feel like that was a W that might be the rarely
seen.
Nobody won trade.
You might be able to talk yourself into Phoenix.
Cause Beals look better the last like week and a half or so,
but I don't trust it.
There was no point for him to be here in Washington. So him not being on the team is the win. KFC, you see House's body language. You bring the Wizards up and he just
immediately gets sad. He looks like Sal after the Dallas loss. It's just like the life goes right
off him. Oh God, That was a sad part.
So, KFC,
what else are you looking at?
Because we're... Somehow the trade deadline...
I've already sent a note
to everyone I know
who's in charge of stuff
at the NBA.
Like,
hey, dudes,
maybe don't have the trade deadline
Super Bowl week Thursday.
If you could,
you know,
as somebody who
runs a company
that produces content
in sports and culture, not an awesome day for us.
Like we're kind of have football that week.
Just can you nudge it a week and then you'll like own the five days around the trade deadline?
Like that would be cool.
But no.
So it's Thursday.
It's in a couple of weeks.
KOC.
What is there a surprise team you're thinking could get frisky? The team I've been obsessed
with for trades is the Sacramento Kings because they were
in on OG, in on Siakam. They don't
get either of those guys. I think they're a team that needs to make a move.
They should be trying to maximize the season. You don't know how long the
window's going to be open.
Denver is a team trying to go back to back.
That's hard to do.
OKC is not experienced yet.
There's a window open here, which is why I respect even the Pacers being aggressive going for Siakam and why the Kings going for OG.
But for the Knicks going for OG makes sense.
So for the Kings, what are you going to do with Harrison Barnes, with Kevin Herter, who's been underperforming? What are you going to do with
your remaining picks? If I were them, I'd be going, you mentioned Bogdanovich. I had the idea
and want to call him recently. I said, why not go for Bogdanovich from the Pistons and Jeremy Grant
from the Blazers? To me, like you called Bogdanovich your stealth target. My stealth
target is Jeremy Grant. he's not readily available right
now but he like he kind of fits the type of he can do the aaron gordon-esque things for a team
especially a team that runs the offense that the that the kings do i'd love to see him there and
he'd add a lot to their defense in terms of help room protection and on ball versatility
grant i'd be going after grant if I were a bunch of teams
with what he can do offensively and defensively.
What do you have, Haas, for your stealth team?
I don't have a stealth team.
I mean, I'm looking at these teams that have veterans
that are vulnerable to injury.
The Clippers need additional depth
because now they've put
themselves in a position where I
think they are absolutely live
to win the Western Conference.
I can't believe it. You know I agree.
It's unbelievable.
It all boils down to
one proposition. Will those
three guys be healthy in April
and May?
Jeremy Grant in that situation.
No,
I don't know because of the,
the constant deck chair shuffling that they've been engaged in the last two
years.
I can't,
I,
I,
I'm not,
I don't have enough brain capacity to manufacture what they need,
engineer what they need,
but the Lakers are also right there.
Wait,
hold on.
Hold the Clippers.
Go ahead.
Go ahead. They love Terrence Mann. They wouldn't include him in the hardened trade. And it was
allegedly a stickler for how that went. But as you watch this team playing together,
to me, he's the expendable guy. Like if they were going to improve a piece of that team,
I think Terrence Mann is the one that's, it's been the clumsiest with how it's fitting with
those other guys. You see him on the bench in crunch time a lot. They'll either go,
they'll have pals out there sometimes. But just in general, I feel like they could get away with
not having him, especially if Kawhi is going to look like 2019 Kawhi again and Paul George.
Those guys are 35 to 38 minutes a game in the playoffs, plus Harden,
plus Norm Powell. The thing I feel like they need the most is some sort of, like Rozier would have
been unbelievable for them, but some sort of guard who could shoot, a catch and shoot guard
who could also defend. And I do wonder, KOC, would they get frisky with that, with Terrence Mann?
Would that be – because I do think he has real value because I think he's good,
but he might be a little redundant on this team.
What do you think?
How about it fell apart during the summer,
but how about Malcolm Brogdon try again this time?
Interesting.
Brogdon kind of fits what you're describing there.
And Terrence Mann and and contract and make that work
yeah well because
Tucker could be traded
as well for the Clippers
so you get some
possibility of contracts
right so you could have
Tucker plus
Terrence Mann
now I'm in the 20s
I could throw
Westbrook in there
now I'm in the
25 range
and now I basically
could get anybody
under 30 million
if I wanted to
I have a stealth team
but we're going to
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Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. Lakers, but they're not self, though. Unless you have an idea.
I would have guessed.
Nobody's talked about.
What do you got, House?
I think it's the Mavericks.
I think you've got Dallas.
Fucking House.
We've known each other 35 years.
This is it.
Yeah, baby!
LeBron to Dallas.
No, I'm just kidding.
The Grant Williams signing is officially a disaster for them.
He's been bad for two months.
I think he's minus 14 on off.
I don't think they trust him.
And I think even worse, I like Grant Williams.
He's a guy who played with a ton of confidence, a ton of bravado, really carried himself like he was one of the best players, even though he wasn't.
But that was kind of endearing about him.
Frustrating and endearing.
And he's just lost his mojo on this Mavericks team. With that said,
I think he has some value. So you take him, you got Hardaway making
18. You have Rashawn Holmes, who has a player
option next year at 12.
I wonder if this is a Levine team, KOC.
Wow. I wonder if this is a Levine team, KOC. Ooh, wow.
Is that possible?
Does it make sense?
Is it too weird?
Now you have three guys who like the ball,
but you have three crazy explosive scorers.
Defense, you're just throwing out the window at that point.
But could this be a Levine team?
Could it be a DeRozan team?
But could it be just somebody who team? Could it be a DeRozan team? But could it be
just somebody who makes a shitload
of money that... Who do you have, S?
I just want to ask whether
you guys think that Brooklyn's going to be a seller
because if Brooklyn's a seller, there are
a lot of pieces on Brooklyn that I like
including... I think Claxton could be
the right
kind of guy on that team.
They have to pay him soon, right?
Yeah, Claxton's a free agent this summer.
And granted, for the Mavs, they have Lively, their rookie center.
So maybe they wouldn't want Claxton, but go back and get Finney Smith again from Brooklyn.
Oh, Jesus.
But I mean, Levine on the Mavericks is interesting.
I don't love the fit.
If I'm choosing a team for Zach Levine,
I'm choosing the Sixers. If I'm in Levine's circle, that's where I want to go.
Dallas is weird because I feel like he'd almost always be the third wheel behind Kyrie
and behind Luka. Maybe that's for the best for him and being a supercharged version
of Tim Hardaway Jr. who's
getting 10 threes a game. It's like Levine would get touches and scoring opportunities.
But if I'm Dallas, I'd rather hold on to some of those pieces and go for somebody else that can at
least offer some more balance to my team. I mentioned Jeremy Grant. Why not Grant? Because
Grant can provide an offensive spark for you. We've seen him be a guy who can score 30 plus points in a game. We know he can be a defensive
presence as a room protector, as a helper inside. He can be versatile on ball. I'd be going after
somebody that offers more two-way upside for them than Zach Levine. What about Ben Simmons?
Which one?
You guys both froze.
I wasn't kidding completely.
My Ben Simmons.
What about my Ben Simmons?
I'd rather trade for yours.
I'm glad Brooklyn was brought up because I think that is the hardest team to figure out
as we head toward the trade deadline
because you could tell me everybody's for sale and all of a sudden three trades will happen in
the span of 24 hours and they won't have a team left. You could tell me they're going to fire
their coach. That wouldn't surprise me. You could tell me that they godfather offer somebody for
Donovan Mitchell. They just make some completely insane trade offer for whatever else they have and a bunch of other
stuff. I just don't know which way they're going. Like Levine,
the fact that their pick's going to Houston this year
kind of removes the ceiling on what they're capable of because
as we discussed earlier, the draft's awful.
Maybe it's like, all right, we'll take our lumps this year.
The draft's not good anyway.
We'll give the six pick to Houston.
Who cares?
Let's try to build something.
Or use this as an opportunity to go get somebody.
I guess I don't want to pay Claxton 25 to 30 million a year.
Do you guys?
Because that's probably going to be the price.
So if I was running them, I would trade Claxton to OKC.
I would trade off O'Neill
and I would trade off Finney-Smith.
I would just be
thinking that way as sellers.
But they might not want to do that because they don't have their pick.
What's your intel have, KOC, on this?
I mean, exactly as you said,
they're a team that's kind of in between at the
crossroads. It reminds me of what
people were reporting this past year about Toronto.
Toronto split.
Do they want to be a team that's trading for veterans?
They flirted with KD.
Or do they want to be a team that ends up rebuilding?
They lose Van Vliet for nothing.
They trade OG.
They trade Siakam.
So they ended up going that path.
The Nets situation is different because, as you said,
they don't have their own picks.
But they do seem split on what to do.
Because even with Nick Claxton, I understand what you mean about don't want to pay him $25 million, and he's been up and down at times this year.
But at the same time, he's one of the most versatile bigs in all of basketball.
He's a shot blocker.
He's an elite finisher at the basket.
He can do a little bit
out of a short role as a passer if you pair him with a great point guard at some point he could
come alive so it's tough with some of these decisions to me if i'm brooklyn i'm open-minded
to either of those uh paths and i believe that is what what they are right now it's about which team
is actually going to make an offer for those guys or is there actually
a star player that
they could rag a lose?
But that might not happen
until the offseason
when some of these teams,
they fail in the playoffs
and feel like they need
a shakeup,
especially Cleveland
because you're right.
Mitchell is the
interesting one here
because could he leave?
Would he want to go
back to New York
where he's from?
What does it mean
that they're playing better
with Garland and Mbley off the shelf?
Why are they succeeding more,
losing two really talented guys?
And where they're succeeding is defensively.
Their defense has been the thing that's really improved.
With Mobley not playing?
Hmm, interesting.
You know who I really like as a trade piece for the Nets
that isn't going to get brought up
because of all these other guys?
But, man, Cam Thomas as a playoff guy, to me, that's literally exactly what the Lakers need.
The Lakers need a feast or famine. This guy came in and scored 37 points out of nowhere against
the Warriors and we won because he just went nuts. And that's technically what Russell's supposed to
be, but he's just not good enough. But I think there's
a couple teams that could use those
high-bearance guys. That's why Jordan
Clarkson's such an interesting trade
deadline guy. It's good to
have those. Philly needs a guy like that
because there's going to be nights when Maxie goes
6 for 28
and Bede gets in foul trouble
and you need that one rando.
Another one like that from Toronto.
Yeah.
I think Miami has always managed to have at least one guy like that
on their team that you're just like,
wow, this guy, Max Struess, just hit six threes.
What happened?
All right, so to recap,
neither of you guys are worried about Milwaukee.
You feel like if it's Doc Rivers, if it's whoever,
the team is in a better spot than it was 24 hours ago.
That's the opinion.
I'm going to probably agree with that just because after what I saw in person
in that Vegas game, the Griffin, the red flag was waving
really, really violently after that game.
And it did seem like it was getting much better.
We all like the Miami trade for Rozier.
KOC, you think Miami's not done?
They could be,
but I don't think they should be done looking around.
But they have a team, they've already won the finals with a team that didn't have
an amazing rookie in Hame Hakes or Terry Rozier
offering the upside that he does. So I think they should be looking around.
Or Tyler Harrow. Yeah, Harrow even getting better too. So I think
they could be done, but I'd be looking around at least, see what's out there.
If you look at last year's playoffs,
they replaced Struis with Jaquez,
they replaced Lowry with Rozier,
and then they replaced Hero injured with Hero healthy.
Well, Gabe Vincent with Hero.
Oh, Gabe Vincent with Hero.
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
So I'm going to say they're in a better spot.
And Butler is just like, I don't care about any awards.
I'm going to play when I play.
You can go to hell.
I'm filming a Netflix special.
I think it's the right move.
I still feel like I was arguing with a Miami fan about this yesterday.
I still feel like the Celtics have too much size for them.
And that if they play them in a series this year,
I think Porzingis is a genuine problem for the Heat. I just think he's too big for Bam. And that's what I'm thinking with
them is if there is one more move with them, is it somebody with a little size and length?
Because what they have now is not going to work in a playoff series. So I don't know who that is.
Those guys are available. They'll be able to cheat code around that.
And then you look at the other side.
Clippers, we talked about,
would have to be Terrence Mann.
Minnesota really doesn't have a move
except Kyle Anderson.
OKC has a million moves to make.
We just don't even know
if they're going to make them.
And then Denver,
what happens with them, KOC?
Still feels like they're a dude short.
My dad even said that coming home on Friday.
He was like, Denver's great.
It still feels like they're one dude short.
So who is it?
Because they do miss Bruce Brown.
There's no question.
I don't think so.
I think the investment they're making
in their young guys is going to be worth it in the end.
Peyton Watson and the time he's been playing this season
has been awesome on defense.
He's developed a lot offensively.
Christian Brown looks better.
I think it's just about developing chemistry.
If they're missing one thing, it's an upgrade behind Jokic over DeAndre Jordan.
Zeke Nagy, their young, kind of more versatile center, hasn't panned out as they had hoped.
So if they can find a better backup five, to me, that'd be the move.
But I really like to offer Daniel Gafford.
Is that where you're nodding, House?
Actually, no. Gafford would
be wonderful for them. I think Nick Richards
would be incredible for them. Speaking
of guys that are available.
I kind of like Nick
Richards.
Congrats to Charlotte, by the way, for
finally starting to figure it out.
Maybe let's bottom out and not just randomly spend money on a bunch of dudes
and maybe follow what Sam Preston did in OKC
and just try to have cap space and young players
and rebuild and become a way station.
I mean, basically everything Detroit didn't do just now.
Where Detroit's like, no, no, Marvin Bagley, $13 million.
It'll be great.
Brandon Miller looking awesome as well for them.
Yeah, you might have won that one, Caleb.
I'm not conceding yet, but you're looking good.
You're minus 400 looking good in the Brandon Miller versus Scoot.
I do worry that Scoot's wearing goggles.
I wish I had factored that into my whole evaluation.
I didn't realize he was having eyesight issues.
But, wait, Scoot, we can't overreact to Scoot yet, right?
It's still too early?
It's early, but it's been a rough start,
but it's definitely early.
Thanks, KFC.
House, give me one stealth conference finalist
slash winner if you were on the FanDuel board right now.
Dallas 15-1,
Lakers 18-1,
Sacramento 20-1,
New Orleans 20-1.
This is just for the conference.
Golden State 31-1.
You like any of those?
No, I'm not messing with the West
because the West to me
is one of three teams
and I can't get over.
It's the Lakers, the Clippers, or Denver.
All things being equal.
And the Suns, if the Suns really do
have one more move in them,
again, I have no idea how they
have assets for it. I'm looking to the East
for myself.
Do you put the Lakers in your three?
Four.
I have four.
Sure, yes.
There's a move yet to be had for them.
Yes, definitely.
Have you watched the Lakers?
There's still a move away. There's still a move.
I mean, we were at this...
Is the move getting Joel Embiid?
We were in a very similar spot.
They were worse at this point last year.
And then they went head-to-head with the Denver Nuggets.
And they put up the best contest against the Denver Nuggets last year, and then they went head-to-head with the Denver Nuggets, and they put up the best
contest against the Denver Nuggets
last year. They did get swept.
They lost by an average of, what, six points
in the series? Right.
Yes. It was pretty effing good.
It was a good series. Everyone was competitive.
They did the best job.
They did the 23rd offense right now.
I think if you're in the 19
and below range in any category,
I can't take you seriously.
It's just January.
It's January.
But KFC, you agree that's the Levine team?
I mean, talk about best fit.
I think it's the Lakers.
No?
You disagree.
Who's your best fit?
For the Lakers?
No, for Levine.
Philly.
Philly for Levine. He'd be number one for me by far. No, for Levine. Philly. Philly for Levine.
He'd be number one for me by far.
If I'm Levine, I'd want to be on the Sixers for sure.
You can't put Levine with some bum coach.
That's the problem.
I can say it.
I'm not an insider.
Levine makes sense for the Lakers in terms of like have a two-man game with AD and how he could play with LeBron.
He's LeBron.
It's a screener like you do sometimes with Reeves.
I just don't think he adds everything that they need.
They still need defense in that backcourt.
They need more better point of attack defenders.
They're missing like the Caruso decision, like letting him go leave for Chicago. It looks really bad now with their point of attack defenders. They're missing the Caruso decision, letting him go leave for Chicago.
It looks really bad now with their point of attack defense.
That's why they have interest in DeJounte Murray.
But the thing with DeJounte Murray is the fact that
you're betting on him returning to form
like he used to be in his younger years with San Antonio.
He's not been an all defensive caliber defender for years.
But I think that's part of their thinking now
and going after a guy like Murray.
If they get Murray and Bruce Brown,
which is, you know,
what the swing that they're trying to take,
then what are they going to be come playoff time?
Yeah, eight man rotation.
That could be good.
I do feel like Murray,
this is the best time to trade him.
Trey Young's hurt.
He's putting up huge stats.
I was driving.
My dad and I were driving
to pick up Ben from school yesterday.
And we were listening to
Justin Termini and Eddie Johnson.
He'd never heard them before.
And he's like,
ah, these guys are good.
I'm enjoying it.
But at one point,
Eddie was talking about the Hawks.
And it was like basically predictions for tonight. And I forget what Termini's was. Sorry, Justin. And Eddie was talking about the Hawks and it was like basically predictions for tonight.
And I forget what term it was.
Sorry, Justin.
And Eddie was like,
I think the Hawks are going to get killed in Sacramento.
He was like, this team,
every single person on this team is now in trade rumors.
And he's like, you don't understand what that's like
when you're on a team like that,
where you just feel like,
I don't know if I'm going to be here tomorrow.
I'm not connected to anything. I might be going. This guy might be traded. That guy might be traded. And he's like, that team's going to quit because there's just too much chaos.
And guess what happened? Sacramento beat them 122 to 107 last night. I thought that was
interesting. The point is, you can pass the point and overturn with trade rumors and trade whispers, and I think
that team has. So,
whether they have to move Murray soon,
whether they have to move the other
Bogdanovich soon, whether
Sadiq Bey, Capella,
they're going to have to... I don't think
they can wait another couple weeks unless they're trying
to sabotage the team. But House,
that looks like an L for us with the
over-under. We like the over-under. We both,
we like the over for them.
We oversubscribed
to the Quinn Snyder mojo.
That's really what we did.
That was a mistake.
It was not a mojo.
It was a poopo.
It was,
yeah.
Yeah,
but I think that's what's fun
about this season,
this stretch right now,
is there's a couple teams that are just like,
fuck, what do we do?
Do you want any of our players?
And we don't usually have that.
We usually have teams either talking themselves into the guy.
And we have coaches fired already.
Last but not least, KOC,
what do you think of if Doc does get the Bucs job?
What's your instant gut reaction to that?
I hope he's better at making adjustments than Budenholzer,
but he has not been in past years.
He's coached three teams that have blown 3-1 leads
in part due to stagnant offense and lack of adjustments.
And what the Bucs do need is somebody who's able to make those changes.
With that said, he's a better coach than Adrian Griffin.
He's a more experienced coach.
He's better at building a system.
He's better at gaining the respect of his players.
And I think that makes it a win for the Bucs.
But will it matter most in the postseason?
That remains to be seen with Doc's history in the playoffs.
House?
I like that assessment.
The only thing that I'll say is I think the body of work for
Doc with James Harden through the all-star game
last year, that to me is like the best reflection of what Doc
is capable of. And if it's that Doc, because Harden
flipped the switch on him. I mean, he just decided to be a different player from
the all-Star game into
the playoffs.
If Milwaukee has
health and Doc is able
to maximize that pick and
roll, and it's like it's the bread and
butter. It's staring us right in the face
with Damon and Giannis, and they
return to the defensive scheme
where they're protecting the paint once again.
I like Milwaukee a lot
in that circumstance with Doc.
Yeah, it's weird because this would be the most
normal team he's probably
coached since the 2009 Celtics.
Right? It's like adults.
It's the lead guy. It's what he
loves. The lead guy gives a shit
night after night more than
just about any player we've had in the
last 10 years. The guy,
Giannis, I talked about the other day
in the pod, he actually almost
seems deranged. He's so competitive
now. I love it. He's really
psychotic during
these games. It's like, it's January, dude.
Settle down. He's really
trying to just dominate and crush everybody,
which is awesome. Dame has never made the finals. Then you have Lopez, he's really trying to just dominate and crush everybody, which is awesome.
Dame has never made the finals.
Then you have Lopez, who's 35.
You just got adults all over the place, which I think is a good team for them. He's on that Clippers team that had the Blake and Chris situation just was so weird and
went so sideways.
He was also running that team, and, and I'm sure, you know, he made
a few mistakes. Um, but then the next job is Philly and he deals with Ben Simmons and then
James Harden. So this will be the most stable team he's took over in a while. He also gets to go home.
So it seems like it's happening. If it happens, it's going to be a hard one for me because I've
grown to love doc. Um, and I don't know what I'm going to... I guess I need Steve
Kerr to quit. If Doc leaves, I need Steve Kerr to basically say, I've had it with coaching. I'm
going to take a step back. Steve Kerr takes over Doc's seat with Doris and Mike Breen and takes
over his spot on my podcast. Winner everywhere. Come on, Steve Kerr. You don't want to deal with
Draymond anymore. Just come on. Come to the media side again.
It'll be great.
Anyway, I got a seat open for Steve.
Hey, before we go, KSA, did you cross off the Warriors?
Because House and I crossed them off a week and a half ago.
Let's give it to the deadline.
Let's see if they can pull off some magic.
But they're pretty close to crossed off at this point.
I just want to see if they pull off a move.
Something big.
Has Wiggins reached
I need you to attach an
asset with him just for me to consider
taking him territory?
Yeah, he has.
Just like he did at the end of Minnesota
where he was very little
value at that point. House, this guy
took my 18th title.
He was
great, but in the inimitable words
of our beloved Raheem Palmer,
that team is deader than fried chicken.
Who do you have?
Shout out to Raheem.
Who do you have Sunday?
Did you decide?
I'm still working it through.
The one bet that I've made
that I can't wait to tell everybody about is the San Francisco 49ers team total over 29 and a
half points combined with their money line.
That is an even money proposition,
maybe a tiny bit of juice minus one Oh six minus one Oh five,
but that's my best bet right now as we sit here on a Tuesday night.
KFC,
where do you want Belichick to go?
Come here to LA.
Come to the Chargers.
Chargers?
Just to see him in LA.
I think he probably goes to Atlanta, though.
What was that report today
that he's not necessarily the favorite?
Saw that.
Oh, yeah.
I talked about that on my last pod.
The front office doesn't want to hire him,
but the owner does,
which is, that's never a good way
to start your relationship.
Charges would be good,
but you get a quarterback
and literally no pressure
because nobody cares here.
So it's like,
come on in.
There's no history at all.
Every home game
is going to be
the other team's fans.
You'll love it.
It'll be good.
But he just wants
to get the 25 wins.
All right.
How's good to see you.
We can hear you on Fairway Rolling and the
Ringer gambling show. Wise
guys, two more shows left on
FanDuel TV. KOC,
we can read it on the Ringer and listen
to you on the mismatch with... Does
Verno still think the Grizzlies are making the playoffs
or is he giving up? Yeah, they're
on a pace, Bill. They're on a pace.
So Gigi
Jackson's pulling him back?
No, he's...
Can they get a 10 seed?
He's out now at this point, of course.
Okay, good.
He's delusional.
We're not that delusional.
All right, fair.
Good to see you guys.
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life y'all afraid of ghosts how about ghost peppers it's the moment you've been waiting for
the ghost pepper sandwich is back at popeyes a buttermilk battered chicken breast served on a
brioche bun with barrel cured pickles and here's the best part it's topped with a sauce made from All right, my dad is here.
He's visiting from Boston.
He's been here the last couple of days.
We watched the Celtics beat Houston and Dallas.
We watched together.
He has been going to Celtic games for 51 years
and has been to a bunch of the games this year.
I have deliberately avoided talking to him about the team
until the halfway point, which we are now at.
The Celtics are favored to win the title.
And you have been at a lot of these games
sitting close to the court.
Should we be favored?
I don't think so.
Okay, let's go.
Let's hear it.
I think that I'm still scared to death of Miami,
even though the record is not as good.
I think Milwaukee is going to be an extremely tough matchup.
And Philly scares me.
But that's not the only reason.
Again, like you said, I've been to almost all the games.
And I love the chemistry of the team.
I love the camaraderie.
I think the teammates genuinely like each other.
But I have the same complaint that I've had for the past year,
which is the coaching.
You see, when you have an easy matchup, everything goes well.
The 29-point win over Charlotte.
Yeah, everything goes well.
And I just have this continuing feeling that we're winning despite the coaching. And part of that comes against a really good team in the last four or five minutes. players cutting, getting easy baskets, going to the rim, not settling for the long three-point
shot, or not settling for a contested shot. They move the ball. The ball is moving really well.
We're not walking the ball up the court. Good pace. Different people are involved. Nobody's
getting stagnant. Yeah. Eight, nine players involved,
everybody moving around. I mean, you really see it. It's like a symphony. They're all moving around.
Last four or five minutes of a tight game, it all stops. All of a sudden, we go back to isolation basketball. The coaching staff doesn't stop it. They don't call a timeout and say,
hey guys, we got this lead because we moved around.
We're cutting.
There's no more cutting.
Where's the cutting?
And it's like the coaching staff
lets them do whatever they want.
And it's really puzzling as a fan because-
Well, the Denver game on Friday is a good example because-
Perfect example.
KP was an awesome matchup in that game.
KP had 19 points in the
first half. He was unstoppable. They had nobody to put on him. I know they moved people around
in the second half. He scored two points. We went into isolation basketball, jump shot after jump
shot after jump shot. And not using like, if they're putting Aaron Gordon on Tatum,
it's going to be hard to score for Tatum.
He can do it, but it's hard
and he's got to do his one-on-one stuff.
But he kept trying to score over Gordon.
And then Jalen gets his,
but the matchup for that game for us
was KP and Derek White together.
Exactly.
They just went away from it.
And my issue with them is when KP turns into Dallas Mavericks KP,
when he's just kind of standing on the side as a catch and shoot shooter.
Well, he's standing on the side because suddenly-
We're not running plays.
Our players are going isolation. And we're not cutting. And he's not a cutter,
but they're not getting the ball to him in the middle. Slowing the ball down kills us.
Right. You can see it. The big picture is the last five minutes.
The big picture is the last five minutes, yeah.
You even see, I think they have nine losses, 10 losses, whatever it is. And I think every one of
them but two was a blowout loss to Milwaukee and to Orlando right before the end season.
The other ones, I think there were eight where we were tied
or it was within a point with three minutes left.
And they've had trouble winning these close games.
They won the one against Minnesota.
But it's all the same stuff we hate.
It's the stagnation.
So that's the big picture.
The small picture is just what you see
at the end of the quarters.
Oh, end of the quarter.
How many times do we need to see it?
It's the same play.
It's 22 seconds left.
Tatum is dribbling the ball up
or somebody else dribbles the ball up slowly
and then they set a screen for Tatum.
And he's a great, great basketball player,
but I don't want to see the fall away three-point shot
over and over and over and over again.
Right.
And he's terrific driving.
Or the step back three.
It's one of the two.
Step back three.
He's terrific driving to the basket.
It's like the coaches never tell him,
instead of taking that step back three, why don't
you go to the basket? Maybe you'll get fouled. Well, plus he put on weight this year. You can
see, I've been saying this, you can see with how the defense reacts when he's posting up or when
he's trying to get to the basket, the defense reacts. If it's just him dribbling between his
legs and he's going to launch a step back, they're kind of good with that. That's the best case
scenario for the defense. That's the shot
they wanted to take. Yeah, same thing for Jalen.
It's like, oh cool, Jalen might go one-on-one here.
Jalen's another good
example. The first three quarters,
he does go to the basket.
Wouldn't you say this has been the
best Jalen season other than some of the
crunch time stuff? I would say
it's the best in a couple
years, yeah. He is going to the basket. He's not dribbling off his leg quite as frequently.
There's not as much hero ball stuff as there's been in the past. He's taking defensive assignments
like he did with Luka. There is some though. It's almost humorous. You can watch the game closely
and if Jalen hasn't touched the ball in three or four positions- It's almost humorous. You can watch the game closely. And if Jalen hasn't touched the
ball in three or four positions, you know it's going up. You know he's not going to pass it.
Well, so end of the games, which is going to be what kills this team at the end.
And if they die, if they die at some point this season, it'll be because of the end of the game
stuff. And you go through all the teams
and all the best guys on every other team
and us in a one-point game last four minutes.
Right.
And I don't trust our guys the least,
but it's close because Embiid, we watched last night.
I mean, he's got the full bag of scoring tricks at this point.
Milwaukee has Giannis and Dame,
which we'll see if Doc can unleash that a little bit.
Miami just has some sort of greedy know-how
where just somebody always steps up for them
when it matters.
And now Rozier's going to help them.
Yeah.
Hopefully he helps them as much as he helped us
in Game 7 in 2018.
But then on the other side, OKC, Shea,
Clippers, they have three guys they can go to, but really it's Kawhi at the end of the game.
Denver's got Yoka Jamuri, which is the most unstoppable play in the league. And
you watched the Denver Celtic game and you went to it and Yoka Jamuri were great.
That's about as good as they're going to play. But in the last five minutes,
I just don't feel confident that the Celtics are going to execute as well as Denver is.
Well, and there's a pattern because even the Denver game Friday night, we had the lead
with about four minutes to go. And that's been a pattern in some of the tough games we've lost.
Golden State, Indiana.
And what happens when we had the lead with four minutes to go, we slow it down. The pace goes away. Everybody stops cutting. People are in the corners.
There's somebody dribbling and a fall away shot is taken. And that's not what happens the first
three quarters. The ball is moving. This has been the 2020s. It's gotten a little better this year,
but it's still,
you can see it. I think there's a couple of things going on. One is that we're still not great
at that mid-range 15 to 20 foot game. We don't have the DeRozan. We're better though. Tatum and
Brennan have been making that shot. I'm talking the end of the game. Oh, end of the game. End
of the game, it just feels like threes and free throws becomes the strategy for the last four minutes where it's like, you
know, what's nice is KP and Derek White and a little high screen. And KP has a little foul line
jumper that, by the way, it feels like he's like 70% when he's got a smaller guy on him from the
foul line that it always goes in. That's my complaint though. That's coaching. Right. You
know, I was watching the Denver game where I think we're going into the fourth quarter.
I think we had four timeouts left, and they were not strategically used in the fourth quarter.
He doesn't use them necessarily to stop the other team when they're having, you know having a 20-point run. And he also doesn't use them to tell the players,
hey, we're not playing the way we were playing in the beginning of the game. We're not cutting.
We're not moving to the basket. I know he loves the three-point shot, the coach.
And I know there's a couple of reporters that have gotten in trouble with the coach for bringing it up.
Yeah, he's like almost feuding with Gary Washburn
at this point, the Glover reporter.
He has an anger about anybody criticizing his coaching style.
Yeah.
The guy's only been there over a year.
Right.
He was in the second row.
And he's been handed the most talented team in the league.
And he was in the second row a year and a half ago.
That's why you call him second row Joe.
That's probably why.
I think he's been better this year.
I really, like when we, we're both, I think Tatum, he's everything you'd want from a 26 year old. I don't even know if he's 26
yet. He gives a shit. He's durable. He accepts every challenge. He shows up night after night
after night. If he doesn't play, I'm worried. Oh, there must be something wrong with him.
He handles himself unbelievably well off the court. I think he's been an asset in every respect. But the one thing
that's been missing is some coach to be like, yo, dude, here's the last hundred shots you took in
the last five seconds of a quarter. You're nine for a hundred. And you're doing the same thing
every time. And the other team knows what you're doing. Like, maybe we should mix this up.
So to me, it's like watching somebody's kid kind of misbehaving and the parents are just kind of over there at the open bar having drinks.
And it's like, your kid's jumping in a trampoline with a butcher's knife right now?
It's so frustrating because I feel like he's really close now to being,
you know, he's probably the sixth or seventh best player in the league,
but there's another level I feel like he can get to. I think he simply needs to be reminded,
it's four minutes to go, go to the basket. Right. And the other thing we've already talked about,
Porzingis, we've never had a player like that. Yeah. I love his game, but you can't score 19
points in the first half because the team is doing a great job getting
the ball to in the middle. And then they ignore you in the second half. He's still standing there.
He's still playing. Yeah. Because over the years with the Celtics, we'd have the games where in
the first half they'd get Parrish the ball, but you knew like, all right, when it's nut crunch
time, it's going to be Bird and McHale and and Parrish would get his shots. Porzingis' thing is different.
There's certain defenses that don't know how to react to him.
He has a much more rounded game than Parrish.
Isn't he much, much better than you ever imagined he was?
He's much better in a number of ways.
I think he's unstoppable when he's near the basket,
but he has a great three-point shot.
He's a little streaky, but it always looks good.
Yeah. He was very difficult for Denver to guard until we stopped getting him the ball.
Right. There's a couple of things that have really jumped out just watching him day in,
day out. That little foul line area is just almost unstoppable.
That's his area.
It's a little Dirk Nowitzki-esque.
He's around the rim with his hands up,
and then you kind of remember belatedly that he's 7'3".
So he gets a lot of kind of semi-cheap stuff
and lobs around the basket.
And he's got good footwork for a big guy.
He's not clumsy.
We've had big guys over the years.
He's probably the most nimble of all of them.
I think he's a pretty good passer.
He seems like a fantastic teammate.
Like, they all love him.
He's got a great demeanor to him.
I think he's an underrated passer.
Yeah, and he's a good defensive player.
And the question is health.
They've been super careful with him.
Yep.
They don't want to play him in back-to-backs.
They just want to get in the April.
And I'm fine with how they play Horford one game, And super careful with them. Yep. They don't want to play them in back-to-backs. They just want to get in the April.
And I'm fine with how they play Horford one game,
Porzingis the other game when they have a back-to-back.
So if that's Joe Mads, he gets credit for that because I think he's done the marathon, not a sprint approach,
which I think has been smart.
There's some Pritchard stuff that I think is coming to a head
that they have to figure out
because there's just games where he looks too small.
Well, it's interesting.
I think he and Hauser have had pretty good years, except Denver exposed them.
Watching that Denver game, Denver is so big.
It's the biggest team I've seen come in.
Yeah, big and athletic.
Each position.
And Hauser got killed on the boards.
Yeah. Pritchett couldn't get his shot up. Yeah. And he kept, if I have another criticism of the
coaching, they kept them in much too long. They seem to have this philosophy, they want Taban to
play 36, 37 minutes. Yeah. That's fine when you're playing Charlotte, but you're playing
Denver or Philly or Milwaukee. I want him out there 42 minutes. Well, also it was clearly Denver
was locked in because Murray brought it. Murray was awesome. Murray was terrific. And Jokic was
possessed and they scored 69 combined. So at that point I want, this is now a litmus test for the finals.
Yeah.
Okay.
They're locked in.
Maybe the two of them, maybe Murray had his best game of the season.
We still lost by two points.
Yeah.
I'm saying when they're locked in like that, this becomes like, hey, this is the game to
maybe make Tatum go 39 minutes.
This is the game.
He has a substitution pattern that's pretty consistent.
He'll take Tatum out with about six minutes to go in the first quarter. He'll bring him back in
with two minutes to go in the first quarter. But it's the third quarter that kills me.
In the beginning of the fourth. Yeah. He'll take him out with, I don't know,
four or five minutes left in the third quarter, bring in Hauser and Pritchett and other people,
and we won't see Tatum again until we've lost the lead.
And the other thing that kills me,
Brissette is a good player.
Right, and he didn't play in the Denver game.
He didn't even play in Denver game.
It's the most inexplicable subplot of the year.
Brissette, who has had some good moments,
but just in general, he's active.
He really tries.
He doesn't seem scared.
And we kind of need somebody like him.
Yeah, he's active on the offensive board.
He's a good defender.
He's a good team passer in terms of keeping the ball moving.
To see him not play on Friday night against Denver,
it was inexplicable.
I agree. I agree.
I agree.
What's been your Drew Holiday scouting report?
You spent half the year with him now.
Yeah.
He's a really smart ball player.
The other players love him.
He's about a half step slower than I expected.
I think he's a little older.
He's been in the league since 2009.
I don't know whether it was just one of those games for Murray on Friday
night, but Holiday couldn't stay
with him. Yeah, I'm starting to wonder
can anyone stay with anyone anymore?
The best two guards
right now for staying with people are probably
Chris Dunn, Jalen Suggs,
and maybe Caruso.
Holiday used to be on that level.
I don't know if he's on that level against the smaller guys,
but where his value comes is a lot like how they use smart,
where when he guarded Embiid,
that was the most interesting game of the season.
Yeah, it was.
And the ability to throw him on these bigger dudes,
they threw him on Anthony Davis.
They threw him on LeBron.
They threw him on Gordon for a while in the Denver game.
I went to the game when they put him on LeBron,
and I'm telling you, it messed LeBron up.
He had a really weird game because he didn't want to put the ball
on the floor against him.
Well, it's kind of funny.
He seems to be playing really well against big guys.
Right, and it's a little like Smart.
Smart was always better with the bigger dudes.
Some of these really quick point guards.
But again, it's hard to gauge Friday.
Murray could not miss when he needed to make a shot.
I think the one thing that was cool with Holiday
is just the combo with White is definitely a little
one plus one equals three-ish.
It's fun to watch.
Yeah.
The way that both of them can block shots and get steals.
And if you try to get them in a switch at the end of games,
they're both able to do it.
And he seems just beloved already by the team.
I feel that way.
So they had these two dudes, Porzingis and Holiday,
who were like just awesome teammates.
And the guys they left, I think everybody liked, but it was time.
You know, Grant needed to spread his wings.
That hasn't worked out.
Marcus, he goes
to a new team and they have the
year from hell, not his fault. Robert Williams
gets hurt right away. Brogdon's in
exile in Portland.
All the moves have worked out
and I don't want to
beat a dead horse, but
I just feel
the coaching needs to come around if it can.
Yeah. Well, it can't just be threes and free throws as the strategy. They have to figure out
sometimes, you know, this is like when I watch OKC or a couple of these other teams,
sometimes it's nice to just get two points. And Porzingis is, Porzingis and then the post-ups with either Jalen or Tatum, the advanced stats for that per possession are really good, especially Tatum.
You've talked about it frequently with me.
Tatum is so much bigger than he was two years ago.
Yeah.
I think he's almost unstoppable in the cylinder, around the cylinder. Yeah, unless it's like a real big, like if it's like bam out of bioguarding,
I'm sure he's going to get in trouble.
I just wish he would go in there more.
I know it's easier to be out taking a three-point shot,
less taxing on the body.
I call it lazy basketball, but I'm sure Coach Mazzullo doesn't.
Well, it's the stuff you do during the offseason.
You work on stuff and then you try to do it during the games.
Sometimes you got to throw that out and just be like,
the thing that this team needs to get better at is,
what's our matchup tonight?
Like in that Denver game, Murray had fouls.
It's like, where is he?
Whoever he's guarding, let's go to that guy.
Let's try to put Murray in picks.
Let's try to get him in switches.
And sometimes they won't do it.
But every team's going to have some matchup.
I even like when Holiday, if it's somebody terrible on him,
I even feel like he can get to the basket and do stuff.
I think he's a terrific-
He averaged 20 points a game last year.
He's terrific getting to the basket.
Yeah.
And he can score with both hands when he's in there.
I think there's a real fear around the league that the Celtics are going to,
you know, it's been 43, 42 games, whatever it is,
that they're going to figure out what this is.
It still feels like they don't totally know,
and they still have the best record.
You know, we're talking, we should realize,
they have the best record in the league.
We're talking about four or five or six games
they never should have lost.
Right.
They literally could be like 37 and four.
Yeah.
But I think that the reason we're being hypercritical
is just this team has really since the mid-2010s
has been knocking at the door.
2020 really could have made the finals.
2018 came within an awesome LeBron game and everybody went cold.
2020,
21.
Yeah,
2020 was a throwaway.
2023,
that's the Miami.
You fall down three,
nothing,
no excuse for that.
And then 22 in the finals where,
you know,
we thought they were going to beat the Warriors
and they weren't even ready yet.
So at some point they have to burst through the door is our point.
But this is what concerns me.
We're halfway through the season.
We have these games that make me cringe
because they lost them playing the way they did two years ago.
Right, it's like they reverted into bad habits.
And we know what happens in the playoffs.
You know, things tighten up.
Well, beating Dallas last night was a really good sign.
Because that said, Luka's given them trouble in the past.
Yeah.
It felt like Luka was coming back last five minutes,
and it was like a seven-point game.
Luka, they go to commercial, Luka's flexing.
And we were saying like, oh, here we go again.
And then all of a sudden the Celts pulled away. Ironically, one of the first things I did when I
looked at the box score, even though we watched the game, was to see how many minutes Tatum played.
40 minutes. Oh, interesting. And he had one of his best games of the year.
If he had played 36, 37, maybe it's different. Yeah.
And I know it's back to back, but he's 26 years old.
He's not 32 years old.
Well, I guess the question is, how important is this regular season?
How important is the one seed?
And when do you feel like you can win the one seed and also not run these guys into the ground?
Because with Porzingis, they've been really, really careful.
But with the other guys, maybe a little less careful. Yeah, Tatum.
So Tatum played 39 in that Denver game, just to be fair.
So would you play to more than that?
Porzingis played 36.
In that game, I would have played him 42 minutes.
So you're treating that like it's a finals game for you.
We were up by 11 points. They took him out. When he came back in, we were down a point.
And so Denver had their run. Maybe if the other team is having a run with Tatum on the bench,
maybe you change your philosophy. You put it back in.
So positives.
Yeah. Chemistry of the team chemistry is great as a great positive the two trades i think have been home runs they basically
turned four guys into porzingis and drew and that's been unequivocal home run yeah jaylen
getting the giant 304 million dollar contract which that first couple weeks it was like oh
yeah is this gonna trying to earn it yeah are weeks, it was like, oh, is this going to-
Yeah, like he was trying to earn it.
Yeah. Are we going in a hero ball now? Where's this going? And that feels like that's gone by
the wayside. The Minnesota game was a really good sign for the future of the team, the way
they all banded together. I think a positive, I think our bench has played pretty well.
Except for the Denver game, Hauser, Pritchard,
even Brissette when he's in there has played well.
And it seems like the owners
are going to spend whatever it takes
because I think they see the urgency of this.
Don't you think we need one more player?
Yeah, we both think they need a bigger guard.
Yeah, a bigger guard.
One, some insurance for Holiday and Wade,
the ability to go smaller with three people.
Because if one of them goes down
and we're playing a team like Denver
and Pritchard is our starting guard,
we're in trouble.
Right.
Or even a team like Miami,
they'll just be hunting Pritchard that whole series
and trying to get him in mismatches and stuff.
But for the most part,
it's as optimistic
as I think we've been since 09 in a Celtics team, right? The year KG got hurt after the title where
we were like, my God, we're going to win back to back. And then he got hurt.
Part of my optimism is the chemistry of the team and that the team members each like each other
and like playing with each other.
Well, now give us what it's like to sit near
the Celtics bench because last year you were horrified that Smart was putting himself in the
games. No, that's a good question. It's much different watching the bench this year because
Sam Cassell and the other assistant coach- Charles Lee.
Charles Lee have a big role in what's being talked about
during those timeouts.
I'm still not sure what Joe Mazzulli is doing.
He's the orchestrator.
Except then he brings the team together,
and I guess he shares whatever the two assistant coaches came up with.
It's the best I can discern when I'm watching it.
So it seems less chaotic than last year.
Oh, yeah.
Less chaotic, more collaborative with the coaches.
The players are not running the huddles.
And that was what was happening last year, particularly with Marcus.
It wasn't just Marcus, though. Grant Williams, one of the least talented players out there,
running the huddle all the time.
Yeah, and being the leader and the alpha dog.
So that's not happening.
Well, that's what we said over the summer.
Part of the reason for those trades was to open up
some leadership possibilities for Tatum and Brown.
I think that's happening.
And I was saying that, and people thought it was like, oh, of course you're
saying that because they traded him.
It's like, no, this is a real issue this team had.
They had a leadership vacuum that was coming from the wrong guys.
There's two other things.
Horford's taken more of a leadership role.
He's really looked up to by the other players.
Yeah.
He's kind of like that quiet guy who doesn't talk much, but when he talks, everybody listens.
Yeah.
And Porzingis has something to say.
So it is a collaborative huddle once they get in the huddle.
So at least you see the upside and the ceiling possibly here.
I do.
Okay.
I do.
And we're not saying there's not an awful lot to fix.
Fix the last four minutes of each game.
Right.
So now the next 35 plus games of the year is about execution in the last four minutes.
Yes.
And no isolation.
And knowing what the matchup is.
And it's like, you know what?
Tonight's a Derek White night.
This is the matchup for us.
Let's go there.
Instead of, no, no, it has to be Tatum.
This is his team.
That's what they have to snap out of.
They have to snap out of that.
And they don't play that way for three and a half quarters.
It's a collaborative team approach.
But something happens in a close game
against a good team with four to five
minutes to go.
Um, any last thoughts on the Patriots season?
I look forward to drafting our quarterback of the future.
Have you been on the draft guides already?
Yeah.
I really liked the Daniels kid.
Oh, you already have a favorite.
Interesting.
I like that he's a, a two-dimensional quarterback in terms of passing and running.
So you don't want to just see our quarterbacks take a four-step drop and then get sacked?
No.
And it reminds me of years ago.
I don't know how many years ago.
No, six years ago, we went to the Masters.
And we were at the Masters in Augusta the weekend of the draft.
Oh, the Lamar Jackson draft.
And you and I were saying they have to take Lamar Jackson.
Yeah.
They have to take, of course, what does Belichick do?
Probably traded down, pick somebody else.
He did, he traded down.
Yeah.
And we were furious.
Yeah.
And hopefully they don't make the same mistake again.
Because I think Daniels is a dual threat quarterback.
When did you stop rooting for them and start rooting for them to lose during the season?
Because you never totally stopped rooting for them to win, even though it was the boost.
It was awfully hard to root for your team to lose. I had a problem doing that.
Well, they go three and 14.
They lost without me rooting for them to lose.
Fortunately, we had the worst kicker of all time.
He lost like four games.
Then Mack was... But it's a good thing we didn't spend a fourth round draft pick on that.
I know.
Could have taken Puka Nakua.
He might have been a free agent later.
Mack, wherever that went to with Mack and Zappi, it's in the running for worst quarterbacks
we've ever had.
I really have to look at it,
but there was that Mack Kavanaugh year was pretty rough.
The Mack thing.
The Scott Zolak year was rough.
Because I was out here three years ago.
Yeah.
When the NFL draft was taking place.
And we were so excited that Mack Jones fell to us at 15.
Remember that?
And he just lost it.
He lost his confidence.
As a rookie, he made the Pro Bowl.
Wow, he was an alternate.
Yeah, but I mean, we thought, you know,
you're only going to get better, right?
Yeah.
Nope.
No, he went backwards in a really crazy way.
Crazy way, yeah.
So when you saw the stuff, Seth Wickersham,
he wrote that piece about, um,
Belichick and Kraft and how, how it went and went sideways.
And one of the lead anecdotes was that when Brady won the Superbowl,
Kraft was passed. It was like Belichick told me he was all done,
and obviously not.
He just won the fucking Super Bowl.
And that was certainly how we felt.
It's a tough one.
I'll never understand.
The last six years of Belichick is super confusing.
Like the Jimmy Garoppolo,
it really seems like he was ready to just replace brady with
jimmy garoppolo and then craft said no no we get you this is stupid i'm keeping brady made him trade
him then he just gives him away for a second round pick when we probably got a first so there's that
then there's the passing lamar jackson then there's basically pushing brady out the door when
in that article and other people have said just give give him a two, three year deal, let him finish his career. And Belichick's like, no, there's no way I'm tying up our cap doing that. That guy's done. Brady goes to Tampa, does great. And he ends up spending that money on Nelson Aguilar and Johnny Smith. And it's just, it's not going to change how I feel about the Belichick era ultimately, but man, did it really end badly the last four years.
Yeah, very badly.
His evaluation of talent the last four or five years was abysmal.
Abysmal, horrific.
And I don't get it.
I mean, previous to that, he made some pretty good draft choices when you talk about Seymour and Malloy.
Well, he had the big renaissance when he did the Hernandez and Gronk draft,
taking Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones.
He had a nice little run.
He also dipped in the 05 to 08 range.
That was when we first struggled with the draft.
And then it dipped again in 2017 range.
It's hard though, when you're at the top of the league or winning Super Bowls,
you're getting a very low, you're getting the 32nd draft pick.
Well, the stunning thing to me, there was an article Mike Reese wrote about
money spent the last 10 years by teams. That was shocking.
And the Patriots were 32nd out of 32 teams for the amount of money they spent the last 10 years by teams. That was shocking. And the Patriots were 32nd out of 32 teams
for the amount of money they spent the last 10 years.
And it's like, man, six of those years,
we had one of the best teams
and we had the best quarterback of all time
and the best coach.
Why were we so frugal?
I didn't understand that.
But that's been the rap with the crafts.
It's like they wanted everything.
They want the perception that they're doing everything possible, but then the numbers aren't backing up, which is basically what's happening with the Red Sox now.
Well, it came back to bite the crafts the last four years now that the data is out there and how poorly we have spent on the team. Right. And I do think that's one of the reasons they were delighted to get rid of Belichick.
Because, so now they're bringing Mayo.
He's going to be doing way more interviews.
He's going to be a bigger part of the whole day-to-day.
Super friendly.
There's going to be all these articles about, oh, the atmosphere is totally different.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
It's night and day here.
It's kind of funny that the irony of this week, Mayo was talking about how
the crafts have said, we're going to spend a lot of money. We need to spend a lot of money.
Haven't seen in 10 years.
And I'm thinking to Breslow's press conference when he was named-
Oh, the Red Sox GM.
Yeah. And he said the same thing.
And we haven't,
we've spent nickels and dimes on shitty players.
Well, I mean,
they're outright lying to people.
They're saying,
oh, we were in on Yamamoto.
They were never in on Yamamoto.
Ever.
It wasn't ever a thing.
But they're doing,
yeah, it's honestly like
they seem like the fans
are stupid or something.
I don't really understand how they're treating the fan base.
The fan base, and we have the highest tickets in the major league baseball.
Highest tickets in the major leagues, and they've made more money off that team,
I think, than probably anyone in any major sport.
They bought the team for $300.
Now it's probably worth $5, $6 billion.
Maybe only the Warriors, but the Warriors actually spend money.
And the only one who goes after them
really is Shaughnessy and the Globe.
I try to do it sometimes.
I guess I'm not a local person, but...
A local, I meant local.
Yeah, Shaughnessy will do it
even though the Globe is owned by the Red Sox owner.
Yeah.
But they're just, I'll never understand it
because they had the four World Series.
I think they they were basically
whatever happened after that
it was really hard to fuck up
unless they did what they did
which was get rid of Mookie Betts
stop spending money
start openly
lying to the fans
about what their intentions were
and then
simultaneously
cut back on money
but then also spend money.
But the fans aren't stupid.
Like the Trevor Story free agent contract.
Like, what was that?
The fans aren't stupid.
Meanwhile, the fans are watching the Fenway group by the Pittsburgh Penguins, by the European soccer team.
Probably end up with the Vegas NBA team.
By a race car affiliate and probably end up with the football team.
They're spreading the money.
In the beginning, their only entity to spend money on was the Boston Red Sox.
And that's different now.
Well, do you think anecdotally, are they the number four team right now in Boston?
Like locally?
I think in terms of popularity, yes. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. I mean, look at all the empty seats the last 20 games of the
home season. It's only going to get worse. Yeah. And if they weren't, if people were there,
they had on the uniform or paraphernalia of the visiting team. Celtics are easily one right now.
Easily one.
Bruins too?
Yes, Bruins too.
And you're the only person I know
who watches regular season hockey regularly.
My friend, Louis K.
I love regular season hockey with the Bruins.
I think the Patriots could easily become number two again.
Well, I mean, if they take Jaden Daniels and he's awesome
and the moment
there's the first mini camp
and there's two highlights
from him,
he'll immediately become
the second most popular
guy in Boston.
Right.
My fear is that
Washington will take him.
It's possible.
All my NFL people
are telling me
he's going to go to the combine
and run a 4-3
and then maybe
Drake May falls to three.
Yeah.
I personally, I mean, at this point in my life,
and especially because we won six Super Bowls
and we've had different types of quarterback,
we've never had the super exciting athletic quarterback.
And Daniels, he feels perfect.
He does.
Belichick would have traded down and we would have been mad for like two months. Belichick never would have picked Daniels, he feels perfect. He does. Belichick would have traded down and we would have been mad for like two months.
Belichick never would have picked Daniels.
No, he would have moved back to like eight.
Swapped picks with Atlanta and got a first and two seconds.
And I don't know enough about Drake May.
I know he's a six foot four pocket passer who has some speed differently than Mac Jones.
Right.
You at least need to be able to move around
as much as Jordan Love.
Right.
You don't need to be like Lamar,
Josh Allen scrambling around,
but you need to be able to buy time.
And that was what Mac and Zappy,
you could feel that.
Those guys could buy zero minutes.
It didn't help either one of them
that our offensive line was so terrible.
Yeah, but like other quarterbacks
have had like mediocre to bad offensive lines,
but they can move and save plays.
Our guys couldn't save anything.
We could not extend plays.
Daniels would be fun.
I have people in my life where Marvin Harrison's going to be one of the three best receivers of all time.
If you got him at number three, that'd be amazing.
Just find a quarterback later.
But it feels like we have to get one of these quarterbacks.
I don't agree with that.
We're never going to hopefully have one of the top three picks again.
Does it worry you that the Crafts basically seem like they're running this whole thing?
We don't have a GM?
Oh, yeah. It worries me that we do have a pseudo GM. His name is Jonathan Kraft.
Who didn't go to the press conference for some reason to announce Mayo,
which I thought was also really weird. There was some succession vibes to that.
I love that you have identified there were succession vibes there.
Yeah. How is he not at the press conference?
It's like, dad, I thought I was taking over the team.
It was a little Kendall Roy-ish.
That's why it was so much fun to read the Globe that next day
and have Ben Volan's column and Shaughnessy's column
both saying, where was Jonathan?
Where was Jonathan?
He was saying, Bob Kraft said he had other stuff. He had other
businesses. He had emergencies with our other businesses. What's a bigger emergency than the
coach press conference for your new coach after you got rid of the greatest coach of all time
and pushed him out? I think one of the presses broke in their paper mill and he had to take
care of it. Oh, that was it? No, I don't know what it was. Dad, I want to go to the press conference.
You're not coming.
This is my show.
Yeah.
I thought that was a bad sign.
I thought it was a bad sign that they said they weren't hiring a GM.
No, we're going to do this internally.
We have a very good organization and a system in place.
Which is really scary.
Everyone else has a GM.
I like that plan.
Well, it's really scary because the internal organization is the group
that has had such terrible picks for the past five years in the draft.
Right.
That doesn't give me any confidence.
They've learned from Bill Belichick, who's a D minus in the last five drafts.
Which means we may still trade down.
I'm going to miss Belichick, though.
I'm going to miss him.
I kind of, in retrospect, wish that he had retired after the 18th Super Bowl.
He's never doing that.
He's here until he breaks the record.
Yeah.
I mean, the move really should have been after the second MAAC season,
where he probably knew the team wasn't going to be that good this season.
Maybe that was when he should have been balanced or left or grabbed another job.
But I don't know.
We'll see.
Like, I would have loved to have seen him go to Dallas.
I thought that would have been really fun.
I thought that would have been fun.
Buffalo still in play maybe.
The Atlanta job.
I know he's interviewed there twice, but now they're interviewing more people.
Where do you stand on the Bruins?
I think they're a fun team to watch.
I don't think they're going to be able to make some of the moves they made at the trade deadline last year.
Yeah, they're on the same assets.
And they're riding their two goalies, and they have two great goalies.
I think they have a shot like everybody else,
but they're certainly not the favorites.
Okay.
All right.
Dad, thanks for the Boston Sports Report.
Good to see you.
Good to see you.
All right, that's it for the podcast.
Thanks to Kevin O'Connor and Joe House.
Thanks to my dad.
Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Kyle Creighton as well.
Don't forget to check out youtube.com
slash Bill Simmons if you want to see clips and videos from this podcast and from the rewatchables.
And I'll see you on Thursday with the Red Hot Million Dollar Picks. See them on the wayside. Never said I don't have feelings with them.
On the wayside.
Never said I don't have feelings with them.
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