The Bill Simmons Podcast - Mitchell Magic, Bucks-Nets, Rodgers Trades + Loki With Wosny Lambre, Peter Schrager and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lambre to discuss the Clippers' Game 2 loss to the Jazz, the Bucks' victory in a bizarre Game 3 vs. the Nets, the Hawks-76ers series, and more (3:00). Then Bill talks with Peter Schrager of Fox Sports and NFL Network about some NFL bandwagon teams for the 2021 season, as well as futures bets including: starting QBs, Aaron Rodgers landing spots, win totals, and more (53:45). Finally Bill talks with Mallory Rubin about the latest addition to the MCU, ‘Loki’ now streaming on Disney+ (1:34:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Wosny Lambre, Peter Schrager, and Mallory Rubin Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the Len Bias story, hosted by Jordan Ritter-Khan, is The Ringer's latest narrative podcast? You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Len Bias. 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story.

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The Ringerverse Podcast. They are reacting in real time to this Loki show that dropped that Mallory's going to come and explain to us later. We have good podcasts. We have Big Waz coming right off tonight's playoff games as well as Mallory Rubin talking quickly

about the 12-game playoff and then just explaining why somebody like me should watch Loki because I don't know what's going on in the Marvel universe. And then finally our guy, Peter Schrager, who hasn't been on for a while. He's one of the hosts of flying coach,

which is doing season two right now with him and Sean McVay talking all kinds of coaches. So he's going to come on. We're going to talk about, uh, football stuff, including, are there some good gambling opportunities out there?

Oh yeah. Gambling. It's all coming up first. Pro jam. opportunities out there. Oh yeah. Gambling. It's all coming up first. ProJab. All right. We're taping the slate. It is 10.04 p.m. Pacific time. Wazzy Lambry is here. Big Waz!

Are you awake? Yes, yes. I'm awake. That was an exciting game, Bill, that we just watched between the Clippers and the Jazz. Yeah, so we're going to talk Clippers-Jazz first, and then we'll go into the Nets-Bucks game, which was the weirdest playoff game of 2021. Utah Clips, Mitchell, 37. His last 13 games, he's averaging almost 35 a game in the playoffs. His

last 13 playoff games with over 50, 45, 90, all the splits and stuff. And it's funny, Dwayne Wade bought a piece of the jazz because when you watch Mitchell, there's a lot of Wade 2.0 stuff going on. No Mike Conley tonight. He got to do his whole on the show thing. Then the Clips tried to adjust. They tried to shut it down. Utah made 23s and they win. But the Mitchell-Wade thing,

I was thinking about it a lot today. What do you think of that comparison? You know, I think it's an apt comparison, but the difference is that while D. Wade was a guy who would live at the free throw line, which is not what Donovan Mitchell would progress to, but instead he's gotten his efficiency better by just becoming a knockdown, pull-up, three-point shooter. In the first quarter, he's coming off the screens completely clean and just rising and firing. And it's pure. It's not even touching the rim. D Wade obviously was never that

level of shooter, but yeah, he combines the ability to dribble past some of the best players in the world, which is like Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, et cetera, et cetera, with a pure jump shot. I never thought he would be able to get his jump shot to this level, but you can't leave this dude open. I agree. The reason the Wade thing is interesting is Wade comes up, he's in the 2003 draft, comes to prominence in the 05 season, second year, and then rides through, wins a title in his third year,

and he's like a 28-a-game guy at that point, getting in the line a lot. But they weren't shooting threes like that back then, you know, and, and your priorities when you were a guard in the two thousands where you're trying to get to the basket, you're just trying to get good shots. And then you saw Kobe and TMAC guys like that, try to add the three TMAC always had it, but Wade just never added it. And it was, as you look at the second half of his career, it's why the first half of his career was so much better than the second half of his career. Mitchell was somebody that I always thought was just going to be like a feast or famine three-point shooter. It seems like something has shifted with that, where I'm starting to think

it's going in when he's shooting it. I didn't always feel that way. I always felt like he was more of a heat check three guy. But now, man, if he adds this, that inside-outside game and the power and the athleticism he has, the Clippers basically had to play Beverly in the second half, even though he's a zero, offensively, just to try to get some sort of handle on the Mitchell thing. But yeah, I think the evolutionary Wade thing, which I, you know, people have been talking about that for two years. You're really feeling

it. And the thing is, if he's evolutionary Wade, if that's like in motion right now, that changes what I think about their ceiling as a title team, right? Cause you think like, well, they don't have the superstar stars win titles. What happens if they play this team? What happens if they go against that team? But in your mind, I hate to have the hacky sports talk conversation, but he's not a superstar, but he's kind of more than a star now. He's right. He's like a tweener between those two worlds is where I have them now. Do you have them higher? I think he's definitely knocking on the doorstep. Right. And I will say, Bill, on my maiden voyage on the BS podcast, you asked me who the players were to watch going into this postseason.

I'm just going to pat myself on the back for bringing up Donovan Mitchell, and I will say that. But, you know, to me, the true mark of any superstar is you see the tide flowing for another team. They get a turnover, a dunk, they make a three. All of a sudden they got seven points in a minute and a half and your superstar does something to stop it. Whether that's Steph pulling up from 30 or KD just straight up rising and firing over anybody who's guarding him or D-Wade, like just straight up, I'm going to get

to the line right now. I'm going to stop this run by putting my head down, getting to the line. Donovan Mitchell is becoming that kind of guy where, like, the tide sort of shifts against his team. And he's like, all right, give me the ball. I'm going to make something happen. And to me, that's the truest mark of a superstar. Like, you can just stop a tidal wave by yourself. And he did that tonight. Yeah, Durant did that in the first game, which we're going to talk about later,

when he hit three of the craziest shots in a row on crunch time. And it was like, oh my God, is this the best player alive right now? And then Bruce Brown's like, Kev, I got this. We'll get to that later. So in 06, Dwayne Wade was second team All-NBA. We did not think heading into, as he was finishing that third season, we knew the Heat were good,

but it still kind of felt like Shaq's team. It was kind of unclear who was Batman, who was Robin. Then the playoffs happened, and Wade just throws it on his back. And we didn't really see it coming. We didn't expect it. We thought all these other guys are going to be in the, in the, in the title game. Kobe was killing it that year. Uh, the sons, we were right. That was a really fun son's team that year. And then, uh, when that, and then Dirk went to a whole other level and then Dirk became the

story. It's like, Oh my God, Dirk, it's just like, this is the best scoring 45 since labor. Then all of a sudden, Wade was the guy. And it happened so fast, your head was spinning. It is set up for Mitchell to do that. I don't know if he has it in him, but it's set up. You think like, if they get through this Clippers thing, they're in great shape now, they're up 2-0.

Then you go next round, playing the winner of Suns Nuggets, which is pretty certain it's going to be the Suns. Yeah. And you look at the Suns and they'll throw some dudes at him, but it's going to be a good matchup for him. You know, they'll throw some size at him. But ultimately, like Chris Paul, Devin Booker,

they're not going to be able to really shut him down. They'll throw bridges at him. They'll give some crowder. They'll try to mix things up. They'll play zones. But this is set up for him. And I think he smells it a little bit. That's the sense I'm getting through my TV set.

Yeah. He has the look, Bill. He has the look. The way he came out in the first quarter just hyper-aggressive and was like, if I get an ounce of daylight, I'm rising and firing. Like there was no question that he knew what he wanted to do specifically because of Zubach

playing that extreme drop coverage. He's like, all right, Rudy's the, you know, famously Utah fans. I know screen assists and all of that, but he is the best screener in the NBA, right? So I know my guy's going to plant this dude, whoever's guarding me, and Zubach is going to be all the way back there. I have the confidence that I can make the shot, and he came out and he did that. And also, Bill, I think most importantly, it's not just that he wants to do it

and that he has the talent, it's that this is not your daddy's Utah Jazz. The amount of shooting and spacing they could surround this dude with around that Rudy pick and roll is like none other. They're not going to go down this year because they made brick after brick after brick after brick like they did for so many postseasons in a row. This team can score. They put the ball in the hoop. And so the pieces fit around him. Hopefully Conley can come back and give them some modicum of a secondary creator slash

ball handler so that Mitchell isn't wearing down at the ends of games because he's being completely relied upon for perimeter shot creation. I think it's just he wants it. You know, when he first came in, he was one of those guys that kind of had blinders. He wasn't much of a playmaker, but now he finds guys. I just think everything is coming together for him at the right time. They're an interesting hybrid team, right? Because Conley's out, and when Conley is out, a lot of the ball movement, a lot of the stuff that makes them special,

all these different little things, these pick and rolls they can run with him, the way the ball moves, fast break stuff, they lose that, and they kind of veer a little more toward the hero ball side, right? Whether it's Mitchell, Clarkson can come in and take over for six minutes. I think when, when Conley's back, that's when you see kind of the two worlds they can live in where they can do this beautiful ball movement thing and make 23s in a game, which they did

tonight, ironically, but then they can also have the clear out. This guy's got this and they have two of those guys. And kind of two and a half because I feel like Bogdanovich can channel that for like three minutes, right? With Bogdanovich, I don't understand it, but the rap on him, I remember

the Wiz Celtics, that playoff series a couple years ago, 2017 maybe, when the Wiz traded for him. And he's one of those guys you think is terrible on defense, but then you watch him, he's like, oh, he's not that bad. He tries hard. Then he had the moment against LeBron. You watch him tonight against

Kawhi, Paul George, and it's like, is this guy good at defense? Can they have a ruling? What's the deal? Yes, yes. He's white and he's good at perimeter defense, Bill. Let's just say it. God damn it. He's a white boy who can stay in front of people. And, you know, I think it's important that we do talk about Utah's defense because our guy Rob Mahoney tweeted at halftime.

He was like, look, this is illustrative of the kind of defense that Rudy can play even against perimeter-based teams. Like, one, they were scared shitless of going to the hoop against Rudy. We got to give him his credit for that because I think when somebody was skeptical about his ability to play a team like the Clippers, like, you know, a Brooklyn potentially where they got guys who can fire off the dribble from long range and Rudy is getting out on guys. And then, of course, like how many pump fakes did DeMarcus Cousins take today? Like it was ridiculous. Like guys get down there and just want no parts of him. And you can see it mostly the ultimate respect that's paid Bill is when he's out the game.

Paul George is just going downhill the entire time because he's like, shit, Rudy's out of here and I'm going to do whatever it takes to get to the basket because otherwise I won't have an opportunity to do this. And so I got to give Rudy his props for just the level of defense that he's playing out there. You know, obviously I wish he'd make a layup or two and catch the ball every now and again. This is too much. I'm going to throw up now. This is too much. You know, though, did you notice like with two and a half minutes left, three minutes left, Beverly was in there on a, he did it. He had a, I got this drive, and he drove to the thing. Rudy wasn't in position, and he just had to do a little flip shot,

and he kind of hesitated. Of course. And it's like, those are the plays where it doesn't count as a block, but it's kind of a block because this guy had a three-foot shot that he kind of overthought, and then he ended up flinging it on the good side of the rim. Now, let's criticize Rudy just because it's fun to make fun of him and the Jazz fans get out of shape.

Has there ever been a worse has there ever been a less entertaining player of Mike during a game? They had one part where they just showed him and he wasn't even saying anything. They just had six seconds of silence. What is this?

Look, look, look. It wasn't the best sound, but do we rather that than LeBron in his fake ass? Like one of his first Laker games, he's like, if your brother's on the floor, you pick him up. We got to pick a side here. We want guys faking the funk like LeBron or just Rudy. He's obviously a guy who doesn't have much to say. It was like, we've miked Michael Myers tonight.

He's just got a heavy brief. I definitely ESPN, maybe make somebody else next game. I don't know if Rudy has a lot going on. Yeah, it's just fun to tease him and make fun of him. And then the jazz fans react like soccer moms,

which is also great. I love that too. I get it. I get it. Because, look, Rudy took some ridiculously unfair criticism when the COVID thing happened. He really did. There was talk about, like,

should we kick this guy out the league? Like, that was actual stuff that people were saying. They were literally blaming this guy for a global pandemic. Like, Rudy Gobert, it was ridiculous, right? The hysteria around it was ridiculous. So I understand the protection of Rudy Gobert. But come on, man. The guy's been kind of a ninny at times in the past.

But I will say tonight, the first two games, he's been great on defense and it's what he's known for. And, you know, Bill, I don't know if you've seen this on the internet. There's a little bit of Rudy Gobert, future Hall of Famer talk sprinkling around the internet, just around how dominant the guy's been at defense. It's like, if he continues on this path, we're going to have no choice but to put this guy in there. Your face right now is saying a lot. Hold on. Let me gather my thoughts. I mean, the Hall of Fame, they're just letting everybody in now. Unfortunately, it's like if you made a couple of all-star teams

and played in a finals, you get to be in, that's just where we're, where we're going with it. So I'm not surprised that people think he might be making it. All right. So for Gobert to be a hall of famer, they have to make the finals and they probably have to win. And then you can at least set up some sort of Ben Wallace situation. That would be the, that would be the path. I never thought I'm, I mean, when, when I was putting together my pyramid for my book, Ben Wallace did not make the top 100. I'm not even sure he made honorable mention for me. Now he's in the Hall of Fame. Gobert, I think, would have to win the finals. And I'm not willing to entertain this conversation.

I just wanted to throw that out there for you, Bill. Just teeing you up. That's all. Wait, can we talk about the clips for a second? They get 56 from Reggie Jackson and Paul George tonight. Kawhi has 21. And then nobody else shows up.

They're down 2-0. Second series in a row. Two games coming back in LA Saturday and Monday. And for some reason, I'm not scared for them yet. I didn't like some of the lineups they played. I don't really totally understand. Once again, Terrence Mann played one game.

Yeah, what's happening with that? I don't get that. I thought we already learned our Terrence Mann. You should play him less. He's good. Beverly played 21. I have no idea why Cousins played at all. He played 11 minutes.

I'm not sure why he's out there. I think eventually they're going to settle into small balls the way to go, but they seem there was 10 Luke Kennard minutes again today. I don't really understand how they fell off the we know who our best seven guys are thing. I thought we left the Dallas series saying, all right, we got it. These are our seven guys. And now it seems like it's in flux again. Yeah. I don't understand the Terrence man of it all. Reggie Jackson erupting, making me look like a complete doofus for saying, why is Reggie Jackson

just in the last series? But I think the main problem for them, Bill, is, look, they got back into the game by getting into the zone and muddying it up. But the problem with that is that Quinn Snyder is one of the best tactical coaches in the entire NBA. He's going to figure out how to beat your rinky-dink zone in game three. That's not something you're going to be able to rely upon.

They're going to find open shooters. That's not going to work. I think the main problem is they don't know what to do with Spider Mitchell. That's what scares me for them. Now, if you tell me they're going to dedicate themselves to small ball and be like, look, we're not guarding Spider anyway. Let's maximize our offensive output because the best version of ourselves

is Batum or Morris at the five. I think, and again, Ty Lue, when push comes to shove, he always goes offense first. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we see them do in game three. But I'm a little worried for the Clippers because I did pick them before the series. I just didn't think they were going

to have this much trouble with Donovan Mitchell to where halfway through a game they're getting creamed and they're just like, alright, let's play two-three zone. Let's switch this thing up. Remember when Paul George was good at defense? Yes, I do. That was kind of his calling card in the early 2010s

where we were like, wow, this is for creating somebody in a lab to guard LeBron. It's him and Kawhi. These are the two prototypes. Yeah. Man, this guy's an amazing defender. And now we have two series in a row where the other team has somebody who can't be stopped

and Paul George's coach never seems to go, oh, put Paul George on him. Maybe Paul George is the answer. I guess, is he just an offensive player now? What happened? I don't want to say he's just offense, because I think he's still good on help side and stuff. But these jitterbug kind of guys,

these super quick first step kind of guys, I don't think he's good at. I think somebody like Donovan, excuse me, like Jason Tatum, where it's like, all right, I can stay in front of you, and I just have to give a great contest okay cool i'm good with that but like keeping these little quick dudes no i don't think paul george has that in him anymore or you know especially not somebody who combines the quickness with the strength that donovan mitchell does i wonder who do you think their best lineup would be ultimately against this jazz team because

i do i mean the best lineup includes sergi baka but he's hurt so you know i i think because he would be the one being like all right will you like literally actually have to guard me out to three point range and so now my guys can get a freaking clear path path to the basket and defensively we know what sergi bakaka can do when he's around the rim. He doesn't have the quick feet anymore, but he's still pretty good contesting around the rim. They just don't have that right now. So I think that's something that should be said. But as it stands, to me, you got to go with George, with Mann, with Kawhi, with Morris, and probably Batum.

Like, that's probably... But Reggie Jackson probably has to be out there instead of Batum or Morris, right? See, I would take Morris out. To me, with Morris... Is this the Celtics thing coming out? No, but Morris, you know. You know in the first hour. You know if he has it or not. He didn't

have it tonight. Yeah, that's fair. I was surprised he was out there in the fourth quarter instead of some of his other choices. I think they need Mann against Mitchell. I think Mann's actually built to guard Mitchell. Put Beverly out there for a variety of reasons I don't like. It didn't happen

tonight, but Beverly also has the capacity to get some sort of dumb flagrant foul. Create some sort of incident. Like, he's too much of a wild card for me in a playoff series. I don't trust him. I don't trust him to use good judgment.

At least with Mann, he's just going to D up and, you know, do his thing. And it's not like he's, like the fear, you know, coming into the season and even last season was that Mann couldn't be a playoff player

because teams would just completely sag off of him and he'd be a zero on offense. But he's made his open shots this postseason, right? Like, sure, he hasn't historically been the best of shooters, but he's made a decent portion of shots that would, you know, legitimately warrant him getting these big playoff minutes. But I think Lou is going to do it.

He's somebody who is, if anything, he's not a Budenhoser who we'll get into in the next segment, but like, he's going to try different stuff in game three. I just worry that they, the Mitchell thing has given them problems, even though he's even a little bit hobbled now.

I don't think they're done. We've learned in these playoffs, especially don't overreact. I think with Suns Nuggets, the Porter piece of it, where Porter just hasn't looked right the whole series and clearly physically is having issues.

I think, I'm not sure they could have beaten Phoenix anyway, but if Porter's not 100%, to me, the Nuggets are a cross off because from a talent standpoint. And you know what's funny? In football, I always know better, right? If the team that looks good in round one against somebody who's not that good and you kind of know in round two, all right. Now they're playing a

real team. How are they going to look? And in basketball, the Denver-Portland series, the reality is I don't think either of those teams are very good. Teams are very good. No. And I agree with denver at you know basically they're not full strength they just got will the thrill back and you know the porter thing has to worry everybody like the only reason he they have denver is because as our homie john hollinger said he was working with memphis at the time he said quote porter jr had the worst medical i He said, quote, Porter Jr. had the worst medical I've ever seen. That's what he said. The worst medical

I've ever seen. So when he's playing the way he is, and you know, I get that the coach, Michael Malone, I guess he doesn't like to be called Mike. What's up with that, Bill? I don't understand that. We'll call you what we want, Mike Malone. Mike Malone comes out and says his back is fine. He's fine, which I think is, you know, he's kind of just.

If you're warming up with a heating pad, your back is not fine. Yeah. If you're, before a game, you have a heating pad on the quarters, you're shooting threes, you're not fine. I have a bad back. I know what it's like. That's a troubling sign for me. So your only other potential one-on-one threat, potential, by the way, one-on-one threat potential by the way one-on-one

threat is hobbled and they're just they're just loading up on joker at this point like they're just like we're gonna let the pizziolo compasso beat us from deep and and and um that's it they're taking them out of the series so yeah the the nuggets are a shell of what they were supposed to be what we envisioned when they first did the Gordon trade, and they looked like absolute world beaters, and they, to me, were the second best team in the West after a healthy Lakers. It's tough to watch them against Phoenix just getting buried.

I talked myself into the Nuggets just because Jokic was so great. I was like, he had reached the, ah, he'll figure it out. Right. The thing is, the Suns have enough to throw at him that if Porter's not 100%, that's not good. The Clips, though, I do think could come back.

Yeah, they do. I think they will. They'll probably win game three. And then game four will be the showdown, Monday night. We'll see what happens. We're going to take a break. We're going to talk about Netspucks.

This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl,

but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. I forgot to say this to you in the last segment. Quinn Snyder, you keep getting your mind right and it overcomes everything, just like you're doing keep getting your mind right and it overcomes everything. Just like you're doing dude on D and it'll happen on. Oh, that was the quote of the playoffs. He

said that to Mitchell, do it on D and it'll happen. I was so into that. It was like a sports, sports movie coach. It'll happen on. Oh man. Uh, man. It's happened on O for Donovan Mitchell. So it wasn't happening on O for the Nets or Bucks today. Game three. Look, I don't think the NBA rigs games, but if they were going to rig a game, it would look something like this, where the Nets shoot eight free throws,

where they commit 22 fouls and the Bucks commit 12. There was just some bizarre calls, including the last two minutes. Giannis gets blocked by Griffin and the ballucs commit 12. There was just some bizarre calls, including the last two minutes. Giannis gets blocked by Griffin and the ball hits Giannis out of bounds. No review. They don't even show a replay on ESPN. It's like, this is a pretty big call. The Bucs are getting

the ball back on this. But the Nets blew it. I'm just going to read you some of the stats from this game. Joe Harris won for 11, you some of the stats from this game. Joe Harris, one for 11, played one of the worst games I've ever seen in my life. And then blew two defensive assignments at the end. He let Middleton go backdoor on him when it was 83-80. Bucks cut it to one.

And then Drew Holiday on that last drive, Harris is with him and then just kind of stops. And then all of a sudden Harris has a head of steam went. So he was terrible. Bruce Brown took 17 field goals and including the two biggest shots in the game. That was weird. Kyrie,

no field goals in the last four and a half minutes. The bucks, the non Giannis Middleton production was 18 points total for everybody else in the team. Drew holiday played 46 minutes and scored 9 points. The Bucks bench played 40 minutes, scored 6 points.

And then in the last three quarters, Giannis was 7 for 20 and Chris Middleton was 7 for 18. And the Bucks won. Make sense of any of that for me. It was an old school slobber knocker. It reminded me, honestly, of those old Miami Heat,

New York Knicks series from the late 90s, early 2000s, where the games would routinely end in the 70s. If you got a game in the mid 80s from those two teams, you were like, holy moly, like Allen Houston must have hit a couple of threes yeah i loved i personally loved it um because it makes every single possession so

intense because again like you don't think anybody's ever going to score again and that fourth quarter was just it was a slog it was it got the base to just one on one trying to figure it out. Obviously, Giannis isn't the greatest one on one guy in the world. Him and Middleton basically taking turns, like trying to see who can throw something up there that might luckily land in the basket. And, you know, to your Bruce Brown point, I want to say the Bucks came out like gangbusters in the first quarter. And they're making every shot. They're getting the stops. And in the second quarter, Bruce Brown was just making layups because Brook Lopez decided he couldn't leave from underneath the cylinder. Like, he was just like, no, you can't make a wide-open six-footer, Bruce Brown. The same floater over and over again.

Over and over and over again. And, you know, it's one of those things, right, Bill, to his credit, it's like in the second half he moved up a little bit and it's like, okay, you're seven foot three, you have the longest arms in the world, you can give good contests.

Like, you know, the fact that he figured it out, it's like almost like when Domino's came out and said, yo, we've been serving you shitty pizza forever and we've improved the recipe. It's like, wait,

you spent 20 years serving us crap and we give we're patting you on the back for finally giving us a good product but that's what happened with that's what happened with brooke lopez though like in the second half he was legitimately great on defense right like he was legitimately coming out at guys he finally was like okay if kate if my guy's setting a screen for KD 30 feet away, I'm not going to let him walk into a freaking three.

So kudos to Brook Lopez for playing insanely good defense. Kudos to Brook Lopez for remembering he was a center. In the first half, I was like, they might have to just play Portis over him. I don't like Bobby Portis, FYI.

No, it was so bad. And they were just, and Brooklyn was just like, alright, he's just going to let guys shoot wide open six-footers. Let's keep doing it. So, shouts to the Bucs for actually, you know, they made, and the adjustments were like, alright, we're going to let Blake Griffin shoot three-pointers.

We're going to let Bruce Brown catch the ball 30 feet out and not guard him so that we can help on two of the greatest one-on-one offensive threats in the history of basketball. Like, obviously, these are no-brainer things to do, but they did it, right? Finally, we saw competent defense from the Bucs in this game. But I will say, Bill, I don't see how you can watch this team play postseason offense and think this is a championship formula. I was stunned. First of all, I'm stunned.

Holiday, who is a guy who, you know, has multiple seasons where he averaged 19, 20 points a game, and they don't even run plays for him. And then when he has the ball and he has to do something, it's like he forgot what to do. And it would seem like he's one of the biggest advantages they have in this series. They don't run any picks for him.

They don't really run anything for him. And it seems like he's lost it. Now he's just put all of his eggs in the defensive basket. He was awesome guarding Kyrie. I was actually, I was watching them and watching all the stuff holiday was doing. And even when Kyrie scored, he was working his ass off and,

you know, four or five moves just to get open. I thought holiday on that end was great, but yeah, they have two guys who can score on one of those two guys. Can't shoot free throws and thinks he can make threes and he can't. And there was one play of like three, four minutes left.

Blake was guarding one-on-one. Everyone was spread out. And Giannis was at the free throw line and Blake was still backing off. And he just had a wide open foul line jumper. And then remember, he dribbles backwards so he can get a running 40 foot start, like almost like a little kid in YMCA.

So he can get like a head of steam again and then goes back and it's like, you just passed up a 14 footer, you know, in a one point game. So I, it was the total Giannis package. I still don't know what to think about him,

where we're going. I've said it a million times. I just think he's Shaq. I don't blame him that he can't make a three. Cause I think he's a center. I think Milwaukee just trying intently believing that he's LeBron when he's just not is going to be what costs him a title until they figure out. I think he's a center.

I think he should be around the rim. Yeah. I'm not going to get tired of saying this. Giannis is a finisher of possessions. He should not be starting postseason possessions 30 feet from the basket. And I get it. He's your franchise guy. He's the best player you've had since Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who's probably one of the three,

four best players ever. So I get it. You can't just say, Giannis, stop taking fucking threes. It's the worst thing ever. But you can at least say, Giannis, don't take threes with 20 seconds left on a shot clock. Pull up threes when you're three for 33 in the whole postseason. Can you please not do that with five minutes left with our season on the line?

Don't do the thing the other team is praying you do. Praying that you do. That's just a good rule in basketball. Don't do the one thing they're dying for you to do. And then the other piece is, then with Blake and some of the role guys, who role guys look great at home that's a role you kind of wanted to see it maybe we'll see it in game four but all of a sudden

you know if you bet on Brooklyn tonight which I may or may not have done um Blake shooting those threes I'm like ah this isn't going in you know uh the the the role guys come in it's like ah these guys aren't going to do anything. And you just start thinking Kyrie and KD have to do it. It looks like they're going to fall apart. KD, who just can put together a one-minute sequence of plays that don't resemble anybody else in the league. And he did it again. And it seemed like they were going to pull away.

It seemed like they were going to sweep them. And I got to give Milwaukee credit. They made some plays. They're down three. It was nut check time. And they checked their nuts. They made some plays. And they kept the series going.

And now we're going to a game four Friday night that they're going to lose. I'm just telling you now. They're going to lose Friday. And they're going to lose on Sunday because the Nets are way better. The fact that the Nets almost won this game with all of the things that went wrong, the fact that they're down 20 plus in the first quarter, nobody in their team can hit a shot. Joe Harris has the worst game of his life.

All those things that happened and they still almost won? Come on. Yeah. You know, look, for some positivity for the Bucs fans, while KD did that sequence where KD made those three straight shots the two pull-ups um from two from mid-range and then the pull-up three where he was off balance and he it looked like he chucked it up and he just nails it that was incredible stuff but I I want to give a game ball to PJ Tucker because he made it hard for him.

That's all you can ask the guy to do. Nobody's going to stop Kevin Durant from doing anything, but you can make it more difficult than they did in the first two games. And he was in KD. I was talking to a friend and he was like, listen, PJ Tucker's already got three fouls in game four. Trust me. Because he was in KD's business the entire game.

So kudos to him for making it difficult. And the same for Drew Holiday on the Kyrie. And, like, these guys should be taking contested, tough, long-range tools all game. Right? Like, you can live with that. Like, yes, they're amongst the best ever at nailing those very tough shots. But if that's what Brooklyn's offense is going to subsist on, as a Bucs fan, if you've gotten to the point where that's what their offense is and not KD pocket passes to Bruce Brown on the freaking move for alley-oops and stuff, okay, you can live with that. And I think they found something finally tonight as far as who they're helping off of and who's gonna guard who one-on-one right I don't like the way they're handling the switches I think if Giannis's guys setting the screen for KD just switch it and let

it happen there were times with PJ trying to fight over that screen and KD's getting you know he's getting airspace because of that because the other guy's not coming up on him. But I think if you're a Bucs fan, you're happy with what they found defensively tonight. However, this crunch time offense makes me want to die. It's just- The Milwaukee one. Yes. It's actually painful. We overuse the word painful, but it's actually painful to watch.

It really is. You're just like, ah. It's like a hemorrhoid. I will say this. Tonight ended because it was percolating a little bit. Like maybe they can win without Harden.

Maybe they don't need Harden. I don't think so. Here's why you need Harden. Because when you have your two guys who are slightly off, that might happen, but all three guys are not going to be slightly off

in the same game. Tonight was a game where they couldn't unlock the other two and Harden just would have done stuff for a quarter and all of a sudden they would have been up 10. That's why you need Harden.

I will say this, and this is messed up to say, I kind of don't want Harden to come back. I want to see Kevin Durant sweat for the first postseason in five fucking years. Hello? Like, I want to see this guy break a sweat in the playoffs, right? Like, he hasn't had to since literally 2016, that classic series against the Warriors. Like, I want to see this guy break a sweat. And whatever, they got punched in the mouth. You know, he didn't shoot a great percentage today.

I want to see what he comes back with in game four. I will say this. He's one of the best players we've ever seen. I want to see him do this in the playoffs. Yeah, I will say this. And this would happen with the Chiefs with Mahomes the last couple years, where they're down 10-0 in the second quarter,

and me and Sal and House start texting each other like, oh, it's Bet the Chiefs. You know they're coming back. I felt that way when Brooklyn, it was 30-9. House and I were texting. We were like, should we live bet this? Should we hop on this? And we looked and it was Nets plus 13.5.

And we were like, oh. And then all of a sudden the game started and the live bet goes off. But it was just one of those things where it's like, you know, they're coming back. This game, they're not going to lose by 20. This is going to be a game. And of course they came back and they made it a game. And the line today was Bucks three and a half. So the Bucks didn't cover.

The halftime line was Nets by a half point. Nets didn't cover. So there was like all kinds of weird Vegas shit going on. And I don't know. I think we, I think we need to examine Joe Harris, what his role was. No, I'm kidding, Joe. I'm kidding. I'm kidding jokes. Uh, but yeah, there was a lot of, it was your classic, really stupid game three where the, the Nets are going to win in five. Cause they are just telling you. And we'll be like, oh man, they could have swept.

Remember that weird game when Bruce Brown took the last two shots? The fuck was that? They also lost a weird game last round to Tatum's 50. That was another one where it's like, all right, the Celtics are never beating this team again unless Tatum has 50

and these nine other things happen. So I think the Nets are advancing. Do you think Philly could give them anything? Yeah, I think Philly or Atlanta gives them a good series. Again, without James Harden, right? Like if James Harden is playing, those teams are not going to make it tough for them, right? I don't think, I think Philly, while they have some interesting wings, right, when it comes to who they could throw out there defensively, when you talk about Simmons, Tobias, Tybill, they have some interesting things there.

But your best player is still Joel Embiid. So, you know, you're going to live and die with Joel. And I just don't think this is the series for him, especially on a bad meniscus. These guys are going to make you run around defensively. I just don't think he'll be long for a net series. I think the Hawks, again, with Harden

out, one, I think the Hawks are going to beat Philly. That's a one. I just think they're going to win that series. I thought that until Hunter got hurt. Now, I don't know what to think. It's tougher with that. I'm like 55-45. If I had to bet my life on it, Game 7's in Philly.

That's a tough game for them. I'm like 55-45 Sixers, but if Hunter was looking like he did a week ago, I think that's 50-50. Who knows? Maybe Trey will do it. The villain.

I just think they, offensively, I don't think Philly actually has answers for them. I just don't. And so, I think they're going to be able to, like, the last game was tough. Like, you know, the crowd got into it. Philly finally made a couple of threes and it kind of snowballed

on them. It got out of hand. But when they went down a bunch and it just came right back, I'm like, yo, the Hawks are not scared of this team. They can get their stuff when they need to. They get into their offense pretty comfortably against them. And it's not like Philly is just going to rain threes on them because Doc Rivers' teams don't ever like threes. So, you know, I like the Hawks in that series. I just think this all comes down to James Harden. If James Harden comes back and he's reasonably healthy,

Brooklyn's taking this thing. I agree. KOC had a good, he went through all the second spectrum stuff, how they guarded Trae Young in game two. And it was basically they threw Simmons or Tybalt on him for like 60 plays, which is what they should have done in game one. It puts length on him, makes it harder for him to shoot.

But it also like, he does a lot of those weird Curry passes, like he throws it over his head and, you know, and it's just two tall guys would, either one of them, they put their arms up. It just makes them, it threw him off a little bit. I'll be interested to see how he adjusts to that. But it's easily the best series out of the four. I really, really, really, really enjoy Sixers Sox.

Look, I think the highest level of talent is in the Utah Clippers series. But I just love this Atlanta team. I love their attitude. I love Trey Young's just like, I'm here to make a statement. I'm here to put my name in the history books,

to put my name on the board as people in this league that you have to respect and reckon with. I just love his embrace of that. And Bogdanovich, I'm obsessed with this dude. Just like his nutsack ratio is just off the freaking charts, right? So I even like Huerta.

I'm a fan of Huerta. I love his all around. He can do a little bit of everything. He can shoot it. He can dribble it. He's a pretty competent defender because he's so big and he moves his feet. I'm just a fan of this Hawks team overall. They're probably my favorite team left in the postseason. I enjoy watching them the most as well. Durant's my favorite player in the postseason. I just love watching Durant. I'm so glad that he's back to where he was two years ago. And I think he was playing the best he'd ever played in 2019 when he got hurt. I think he's as good now as he

was then. It sure feels that way. Defensively, it's one of those things where it's the cliche to be like, people don't talk about Durant's defense because we do. It's true. He's really good defensively and does a lot of good things.

And I don't think, you know, I think as a two-way player, I don't think people saw that coming in the late 2000s when it seemed like, it's like, can this guy get to 200 pounds? You know, I was driving the bandwagon, but I never thought he would be the, I never thought he'd be the two-way guy that he is. You know, again, I mentioned 2016. That, to me, was Kevin Durant's coming out party

as a legitimate elite defensive player because against Golden State, this guy was everywhere. He was blocking shots at the rim. He was switching out on Steph Curry and Klay, just guarding them on an island one-on-one. He was rebounding. He was doing everything. And I was like, this is insane.

I didn't know Kevin Durant could do all of this stuff. And then you realize the guy's seven foot, quick as hell, sneaky hops. Like, it's incredible. So, you know, he first flashed it to me for real in 2016. And he's doing it for Brooklyn because guess what, Bill? He has to. Who's his defensive back line? Blake Griffin and Claxton?

You know, Hakeem Olajuwon, they are not. You know what I'm saying? So it's by necessity he's doing all of this and it's impressive. Well, if they just had been able to sign DeAndre Jordan two years ago and, oh wait, he's on the team? What's happening? I guess he's just had been able to sign DeAndre Jordan two years ago.

Oh, wait. He's on the team? What's happening? I guess he's just... That's it? He's just their buddy now? Listen, man. Listen. He's there. Charles Oakley. Him and Tyree. DeAndre is their guy. It's like a brotherhood with those

three. I get it. Another thing. Respect to Steve it. But, you know, another thing. Respect to Steve Nash. Like, I thought that was going to be a thing. I thought he was going to have to play DeAndre because of all the kowtowing that everybody has to do to superstars. And he's their boy. And I think he smartly this year gave DeAndre heavy minutes. He's like, look, I'm playing him.

Right. He's not very good, guys. You guys are seeing what I'm seeing, right? Yeah. I'm playing him. Right. He's not very good, guys. You guys are seeing what I'm seeing, right? Yeah. I'm giving him a chance. Yeah. Nash has been great. Yeah.

I even like when they show, you know, we don't learn a ton from them when the coaches get miked, but when they show Nash get miked, I really enjoy like his, he's very Steve Nashy. I've done a few podcasts with him, obviously. He's exactly what he's like when you're with him. He's just very measured, very calm, very poised. And that's the kind of coach I would want to play for if I was an NBA player. I look at Budenholzer on the other side. Budenholzer looks like he just played 36 holes.

And the last nine, you know, they were doing shots and he just, he just looks, he just looks like he's about to have a heart attack on the sidelines. And then you go on the other side and Nash is like perfectly composed. He's been there. He played, he's been in the biggest games possible. He's not nervous at all. Like, I don't know. I think that has to matter a tiny bit. I think so too. And I think his temperament is his biggest asset to this team.

When you talk about the management of like, Kyrie's taking PTO days during the regular season. Just like, I'm calling out sick. Yeah, like, you know, like he's the one that has to manage that. And I remember, I forgot who put this out.

They put out a study that said Steve Nash was like one of the most emotionally intelligent players in the league because one of the things that showed it was he averaged most touches of his teammates of any NBA players. He was constantly like doing the human interaction shit. Like, yo, are you good? Is everything okay? Nah,

just, you know, just stay focused, stay in the game, doing all of that crazy leadership quality stuff. And to hop into the Brooklyn, like, look,

man, we can say, Kyrie is, you know, he's your crazy blonde ex, you know, like he is, he's tough. And ex, you know, like he is. He's tough. And KD is tough. And Harden is Harden, right?

Like Harden's, you know, partying with rappers at strip clubs with no mask on at the start of training camp. Right. Like this is tough. And Nash has just seamlessly done this. And I think he deserves the credit. Obviously, he has the most talent in the league, but not everybody can do what he's done this year. It's hard to manage famous people. Exactly. You know, whether you're a director on a movie set or whether you're a coach of a team like this,

I was always impressed with Spolstra. You know, the way he was able to handle the LeBron Wade thing, especially when it looked like they were going to snake him during the second year. Right. Remember when it got a little tense, there's a lot of rumors and, and, you know, he handled it. And the thing is he's kind of the same kind of calmness, intelligence, just being able to read situations and being able to connect with people. And the thing you mentioned about the touching,

I remember writing this about Duncan a million years ago, when you would see Duncan in person on the Spurs, the way he would connect with everybody and coming out of timeouts, he would have an arm around somebody. Then he would go over to somebody and slap somebody in the ass. And he was just connected to all those dudes. Yeah. Old school leaders. I think Durant has some of that. I didn't, I don't, didn't feel like he did the first, you know, five, six years of his career, but I think he's, and I certainly didn't feel like he was like that on the Warriors and the Warriors. He was like, kind of like the, uh, he's played the relative who showed up for Christmas. Yeah. This Nets team, like, they fuck with him. Like, you could tell the guys, it's not like, you know, you know, the stories came out last year after the Clippers had their meltdown where guys are like, look, Paul George is trying to do the leadership thing. And everybody's like take us to the promised land. We follow him. And I always said, Bill, you don't get enough credit for managing big egos like me and Verrier and Mahoney and KLC. You don't get enough credit for that,

brother. We don't have a lot of egos. We have a lot of good team players. It's easy. It's easy at the ringer. Absolutely. Big Waz, you doing any more pods this week? What's your plan? I won't be on until group chat next Wednesday. Every Wednesday night we record and we drop very early Thursday morning.

Who knows? Something crazy might happen in the playoffs where I'll get the bat singled and have to come on. But yes, tell the people to look for me on group chat. Your legions of... Oh, yes. And possibly locker room as well. Possibly locker room if some shit goes down this weekend. I'm with you. I hope the Hawks make it fun this weekend.

I think the Nets are going to beat the Bucs. I think Hawks Sixers go seven. I think the Suns handle the Nuggets easily. And Jazz Clippers to me is the wildcard series. I don't know what to expect. You could tell me the Jazz are going to sweep them.

You could tell me it's 2-2 in 72 hours. I wouldn't believe either. Big Waz, good to see you as always. All right, BS. Thanks. All right, Peter Schrager is here from the NFL Network from Fox. And most important to me, Flying Coach, the podcast. Season 2 came back with him and Sean McVay. How many coaches are we up

to now? We now have four NFL head coaches. And if you include McVay, we've got five. So we've done Robert Sala from the Jets, Matt LaFleur from the Packers, Zach Taylor, surprisingly great from the Bengals, Cliff Kingsbury, probably the best one yet. And then Sean. So we're five out of 32

and we're trying to knock them all out here. Belichick looming as the white whale, as the Kaiser Soze of this podcast where he just pops in and you just can't believe it. Here's my case for Belichick coming on. Who loves talking football more than Bill Belichick? I know. Nobody loves a conversation for 20 minutes

about all the stuff Ed Reed did in the 2006 week eight random game against the Texans. Totally. And I know the perfect bridge, like all Sean needs to do is come in and start talking about Johnny Hecker, his punter. And then Belichick will talk for like 15 minutes about how good Hecker is. The truth is this, McVay is co-hosting this thing.

And if you've listened to the Flying Coaches season two, I feel like this is Zion. The way he's come out of the gates as a host, he's incredible. He's candid, he's unfiltered, and he goes a long way in booking these guests. And I finally, this is the first one I started leaning on him this week. I'm like, all right, we got to start planting the seed for Belichick. We've got five more to go in the 10 episode run. And I am hoping that Belichick is one of them from here on out. Well, and then the other piece of this is you're going to be joining me on this podcast on Thursdays after the roaring success of Million Dollar Picks, which by the way, has not transferred to my NBA playoff picks. I'm just getting crushed.

I actually had to shut it down. I'm waiting to come back for football. Basketball, I just have not figured out. I have good friends who are all in on this Bucks-Lakers pick of yours, and it just... They're texting me, not too thrilled with the Bill Simmons selections. No, they should be not thrilled with Anthony Davis, is what they shouldn't be thrilled with. Hey, Anthony, play four

games in a row. Street clothes. Yeah, play four games in a row. Anyway, we are going to be doing this every Thursday for Million Dollar Picks. There's a lot of rumors that FanDuel might have a million dollar picks thing of their own that we're going to kind of be piloting and we'll see how we can do. But I sent you some gambling stuff. There's some good future stuff now because the draft is done. All the major trades have been done now except for Aaron Rogers, who we can talk about in a second. But one of the things that jumped out to me, they have starting QB bets and Bridgewater was plus 145 to be Denver's opening day starter. How is Bridgewater not the opening day starter for Denver? Explain that to me. Oh, I think it's Drew Locke. I think it's Drew Locke. I think they brought in Bridgewater

as a competition for Locke, but I think Drew Locke has been the starter now for two years. George Payton's the new GM. And we could talk about Fangio as the coach, and he's had Drew Locke for two years. They didn't give up much. They gave up a sixth round pick to get Teddy Bridgewater, which to me tells me that there wasn't a market for Teddy Bridgewater and it's not necessarily your number one. So Drew Locke is plus 145, just for the record. Yeah. I think Drew Locke is the guy in Denver for now. And here's what it is when you look at the Broncos. There's still this open door to Rodgers, but the GM signed a six-year deal. And if you want the backstory, George Payton is one of these guys, was with the Vikings for years as the number two in the front office. And every year, it was like

the number one GM candidate is George Payton. And he would pull his name out because he's got young kids and they were happy in Minnesota, agrees to go to Denver, is being paid like a top GM, and he signed a six-year deal. So he is in no rush to make a rash decision. And you saw that at the draft. They didn't take Justin Fields. They didn't take Mac Jones. I feel like he's cool if Drew Locke is the quarterback this year, and then we can explore it in the offseason,

or he wants to leave the door open for Rodgers, or maybe even Deshaun Watson. New England Patriots. Cam is minus 185. Mac Jones is plus 170. I would think Cam. I would think Cam. I would think Cam. And I think you've said all the reasons in the past about,

okay, he was good the first two weeks, gets COVID, has a long way back, doesn't look the same, was thrown the playbook in July. And the way Bill, I call him Bill, the way Belichick talks about Cam Newton, it's like, this is his guy. I don't think they want to throw it all on Mac Jones from day one. And on Thursday they had a practice and Cam didn't play because of a hand issue. And Jared Stidham took the majority of the number one reps, which tells me,

I know it's only June, but it tells me they're not going to be handing anything to Mac Jones from go. And I would be surprised if he's the week one starter. Jared said him plus 950 to be the week one starter. Winston is minus 280 for New Orleans and Garoppolo is minus 320 for the Niners. We don't see any scenario where those aren't the two starters, right?

I think those are the two starters, especially San Francisco. But the Winston deal, I go back on a personal conversation I had with Sean Payton around the Super Bowl. And I was like, if Breeze retires,

and I mean, he was really just pitching how good Jameis has been this whole year. And I was like, if Breeze retires, and I mean, he was really just pitching how good Jameis has been this whole year. And I know he loves Taysom and there's going to be a place for Taysom Hill, but I feel like this is Jameis Winston's team. They brought him back on this one year deal. And the way Peyton was so bullish, I think there's also something to prove like, Hey, no one else can figure Jameis out, but I'm Sean Peyton. Let me show you how good I can make this guy. Hot take might be be better than old Drew Brees. I've heard that. I've heard that from a few people.

And I don't think it's that... Very conceivable. He threw for 5,200 yards a year and a half ago. He's got a better deep pass than Drew Brees did last year. The stuff is, you know, when the Tampa time with Jameis, he always broke your heart. Always broke your heart, no matter when.

There was never that big moment where he came through for you. No, he always broke your heart. Always broke your heart, no matter when. There was never that big moment where he came through for you. No, he did if you bet against the Bucks. He came through a lot of times. He really enjoyed Jamis at that point. He was quite reliable then. Let's talk bandwagons. Alright. I can

feel the Cleveland Browns bandwagon. I think it was built. I think it's like one of those ships in Game of Thrones that we were just like, wow, what an amazing, majestic ship that is. Browns bandwagon, they got a taste of it last year. Really, really got their beak wet. Odell coming back.

They had those dumb injuries in that game they lost to the Chiefs. And then you think like, oh man, if, you know, think, go back and, who's their backup quarterback for the Chiefs. And then you think like, oh man, if, you know, think go back and who's their backup quarterback for the Chiefs? Why am I blanking? Chad Henney.

A little Chad Henney magic. 13-yard run. Maybe the Browns get through there. And now I feel like they're going to be bandwagoning. Do you know what their win total is for season wins? 17 games, I'd say nine and a half. Yeah, it was 10 and a half. Wow.

Wow. So I forgot about the 17 games when I was looking at these and I was like, my God, the Browns 10 and a half. And then it's like, oh, so they'd have to go 11 and six, which seems conceivable. But do you agree that that's the AFC bandwagon team or do you have a different one? Choo-choo.

I mean, the Browns are all everyone's talking about. They come have the coach of the year. First of all, Stefanski, who I love everything about this guy. It's not about him. He's totally low, but like everyone there says in a matter of a year, they went from kind of a loose around the edges organization to everyone being buttoned up from the top to bottom. Baker people are high on, but I just love what they're all about. It's running the ball, good offensive line. They added stuff on defense. And the second round, they got the linebacker from Notre Dame,

who's an initial J-O-K. And now he was supposed to be a first round pick. Some teams found a minor heart issue that they thought on their medicals. He fell down draft boards. The Browns are over the moon that he fell down. They might've gotten their middle linebacker for the next decade in this guy in the second round. I think it's fair. And if it was a different coach, I would maybe say, okay,

slow down. But this guy is so grounded, so measured. He will not let these guys read their own headlines. And it's an interesting dynamic. It's him who is a Penn graduate. His father, you'd find this interesting, is Ed Stefanski, the old GM of the Nets and the Sixers. So he grew up in a sports background where he understands his stuff. And then Andrew Barry, who's a Harvard guy and is one of the smartest GMs in the league. He's under 40 years old.

So very smart, different group that's leading the Browns. Nothing against the old group. It's just that it feels like they've got the right combo now and they're measured and rational and grounded. Two stiffs in that division potentially too. And it basically could come down to them at Baltimore unless you feel like Roethlisberger is going to have

this I don't know, cap. Renaissance. Caparooni first half of the last any given Sunday game kind of renaissance. Yeah. Steelers are interesting. It's hard for me in good faith to say the Steelers are going to come out guns blazing.

The big difference with them is they fired their offensive coordinator and brought in a new guy named Matt Canada, who everyone around the league is like, ooh, he's innovative. He was the quarterback's coach, but like does the jet sweep, does things we haven't seen from the Steelers yet.

But at the end of the day, Ben did not look great at the end of last season. And we did the whole Ben's back. He looks fresh like the first three months. And at the end of the day, Ben did not look great at the end of last season. And we did the whole Ben's back, he looks fresh, like the first three months, and then it kind of petered out. It's hard for me to think over a 17-game season Ben Roethlisberger is going to be as good as he once was in the early

2010s. Rams are my candidate for the NFC bandwagon team. Now, this is a tough one for us because our co-worker, Sean McVay, our colleague, look, they're built

to make the Super Bowl. They've traded 100 draft picks and they're supposed to compete for a Super Bowl spot this year. They improved their quarterback position which they needed to do and there's a lot of staff for breakout buzz. If it's going to be a year in the next three, it should be this year. You're thinking they're

over under is also 10 and a half. They're for the conference are plus 650. What do you think of the ramps? A lot. I love it. I mean, look, and again, all biases, but it's not even that. I talk to Sean every day. That's fine. But first of all, I've never heard him as excited as he is about his team. And they went to the Superbowl a couple of years ago and he's just giddy, giddy over Stafford. And it's nothing against golf at this point. It's like Stafford is the quarterback he was meant to have. It feels like the two of them speak the same language. They're of a similar age where they can talk and it's at a different level and just the stuff. And it's such a McVeigh ism. And I think you've heard him say it where he's like, it's above the neck.

And I'm trying to do his Gruden like voice, whatever it is, but he's above the neck. It's just so amazing. I'm like, what is above the neck? Who talks like that? He's like,

it's just the stuff that he has upstairs where he can see something and it's instantaneous and he can just adjust, call the audible. I wouldn't be shocked if they go four wide a ton. I wouldn't be shocked if Stafford's wide a ton. I wouldn't be shocked if Stafford's throwing the ball 50, 60 times a game at some points. This is the McVay offense he's always dreamed to run where it's the quarterback is a coach on the field and he can sling it. They didn't go after Julio in the end. I think they feel pretty confident with their

receiving core. They love Cam Akers who played injured most of last year. And the defense, they lose Brandon Staley as a defensive coordinator, who did a really good job in his one year. But Raheem Morris comes in, who's a former NFL head coach and a really good defensive coordinator. And he's one of McVay's best friends. So I feel like the Rams, you add in this whole deal with the new stadium and fans, and there being a Super Bowl this year, and you might not think that stuff matters.

There's like a certain momentum that goes with it where it's like, all right, to your point, this is our year. There's an urgency. We've knocked on the door a few times. Let's get over the hump. And the NFC, with the exception of the Buccaneers, is sort of wide open. The new stadium thing helps. I think from a talent standpoint, because the Bucs are, they're so loaded, they got to fuck around with their draft, which I thought was really interesting, where they didn't really have any major needs, right? They're just like, cool, this guy. Oh, oh, it's like this guy.

And that's just kind of how they went. Who do you think is the third most talented team in the NFC? Is it the Packers? I guess, right? But like, it's an asterisk, so I wouldn't put any money down on them in June because I could see Jordan Love being the quarterback week one. And that's a big unknown. I don't think anyone else in the NFC North, like the Vikings, the Lions and the Bears,

I can't sign off on that. The Saints are in a questionable mode, the Panthers and the Falcons rebuilding. You start stretching and you start looking and you're like, all right, we go into the old standby. Like, is it Seattle? And you know, it gets to that point. Say who you want to say. Just go ahead. Go ahead. You think I'm going to say the San Francisco 49ers? No. Go ahead. Say who you want to say. Just go ahead. Go ahead. You think I'm going to say the San Francisco 49ers? No, I don't.

Who do you think? Go ahead. Okay, fine. I'll tell you who it is. Do it. Do your thing. The New York Giants are your sleeper team in the NFC.

Is that what you want to hear? Yeah, let's hear it. It's true. It's true. Here's the case for the Giants in June. All right. Joe Judge. I'm going to give him a mulligan last year

as I will give every first year coach from last year COVID season weird off season how do you establish yourself when you're doing it over zoom move your whole family to a new market and they don't even get to go to New York City it's his team he was hard ass last year discipline

and did not lose the team got rid of some guys who might have been dissenting opinions in that room. And they're all in. And then in the offseason, they bring back Leonard Williams. They get Galladay, who's a solid wide receiver with what they got. A Dory Jackson. And then the pick of like Kadarius Toney.

I know not a fan from everybody, but I think it's another great, great draft with him and Ojolari. Like, I think the Giants are going to be really good this year. I think they're the NFC East team for me. And, you know, you always talk about the aggregators and what we use it in our show, Good Morning Football, Kyle Brandt and I will call it big fonted. And what that means is like the NFL network will put you on Instagram and be like, Peter Schrager says the Giants are your NFC East favorites. And you're like, ah, shit, here comes 7,000 people on Twitter saying I'm an idiot. But on paper, the Giants are your NFC East favorites. And you're like, ah, shit, here comes 7,000 people

on Twitter saying I'm an idiot. But on paper, the Giants have it. And I've gotten to know Joe Judge a bit. I've gotten to know Daniel Jones a bit. It's got that feeling where it's all there. They just need to go out there and play football. And oh, yeah, I didn't even mention, maybe the best player in the game is coming back from an injury and he's ready to tear the league up in Saquon. So I'm saying the the giants and a wide open NFC could be your team. I can't believe it took you to the tail end to mention say, Kwan. It's almost,

I would have thought he would have been first sentence. It's not. And it's like, that's what is making me think, Oh, Oh shit. I forgot about say Kwan. Like,

I think he's that good. And the fact that it almost goes against all the other things I'm saying, and it's just an added bonus. Giants could be a team that we're looking at come like January and we're like, oh my God, what a come from nothing story. But they've had all the pieces they've just been building. And now finally it all comes together. Well, the other thing in their favor is the NFC East. Yeah. Who do you trust in the NFC East? Philly might be rebuilding for all we know. Dallas, who knows? And Washington, who knows? Washington really good on defense.

We'll see how Fitzpatrick is. But with Dallas, it's like they were really bad on defense. They bring in Dan Quinn, get a healthy Dak back. But there's a lot of youth on that defense. I don't know. If they score 40 points a game, I won't be surprised. But I can't tell you that Dallas isn't going to give up 41 points per game. Yeah. And what do we get from Zeke?

What do we have from Dak and his year back? Like I was looking at the odds on FanDuel. Dallas is minus 156 to make the playoffs. And I was like, I could see Dallas going five and 11, or I guess five and 12, six and 11 or something like that. I don't think they're... How is it more likely from a gambling standpoint for them to make the playoffs than not? And the answer is people love Dallas.

People love Dallas. Vegas loves Dallas. They bet on it. Dallas, I think, was the highest possibility of the best record and those best record odds last year before they got hurt. And so I look at Dallas as minus 156. Then you get Washington,

they're plus 156. Can I give you another reason why people like Dallas this year? And it's such a June thing, but they schedule. Giants are plus 230, but go ahead. Giants, Giants are your team.

Giants plus 230 to make the playoffs. Go ahead. What's your reason? All right. So they play at Tampa on a Thursday night to start the season.

Their next nine opponents, the Cowboys, Chargers missed the playoffs. Go ahead. What's your reason? All right. So they play at Tampa on a Thursday night to start the season. Their next nine opponents, the Cowboys, Chargers missed the playoffs. Eagles missed the playoffs. Panthers missed the playoffs. Giants missed the playoffs. Patriots missed the playoffs. Vikings missed the playoffs.

Broncos missed the playoffs. Falcons missed the playoffs. The NFL schedule makers were not unkind to Dallas out of the gates to maybe give them some sort of cushion. Go over those slowly and I'm gates to maybe give them. Wait a second. Go over those slowly. And I'm going to comment after each team.

So first game is what? At Tampa Thursday night. Let's say. Oh, and one. Oh, and one. At Los Angeles. Chargers. I think the Chargers are going to be good.

Okay. So you got, oh, and two. I have them marked down for a 10, a 10 and seven, nine and eight season. So the old nine and eight. Yeah. It feels a little nine and eight ish 8 season. The old 9 and 8. Yeah. It feels a little 9 and 8-ish to me. So 9 and 8. All right.

So that's two. I could see them 0 and 2 after that. Home against Rebuilding Philly. That's a win. Home against Carolina. Although that could be the, they lose and they're 0 and 3 and it's leading first take on Monday morning. Oh, it don't work every week.

It's Steve and A just going crazy about them being on three. Hey, let me give you a little TV morning show secret. Win or lose every morning, Monday morning, seven o'clock a.m. We're starting with Dallas Cowboys. It works. The next one, Carolina Panthers at home, Dallas. I see Carolina.

I could see them being pretty good this year. Okay. So you like every team. 31 teams are going to be great, according to you. No, no. But when you keep going, they're playing the Pats.

They're playing at New England. That's a loss. Okay. You have another one. Home against the Giants. You love the Giants. I love the Giants, but I don't know if the Giants

are going to walk into Dallas. They're playing the Broncos. We both think the Broncos are pretty talented. Anyway, my point is Dallas, I just, I think you might be on to something with the Giants. I was thinking Washington could be the team in that. Yeah, they could be.

Division with a little, who's that guy's name? Taylor? I get like football Alzheimer's after the season ends when it's like four months after. I can't remember who's that. No, who's the quarterback who lit it up in the playoff game? Oh, Taylor Heineke. Yeah, my guy Taylor. I think Fitzpatrick's the quarterback who lit it up in the playoff game? Oh, Taylor Heineke.

Yeah. My guy, Taylor. I think Fitzpatrick's the quarterback. I think Ryan Fitzpatrick's the guy. Taylor got a two-year deal. He'll be in the mix, but I think it's Fitzpatrick's too. Oh, let's take a quick break. I want to do a couple more of this.

All right. This leads into a Rogers discussion. Just a quick one. Because the horse has been beaten pretty severely. First of all, what do you make of the Instagram stuff? I'd love your opinion. The ukulele with Miles Teller and the singing Taylor Swift. Is it cringeworthy to you or is it like this guy's living his best life? Go do your thing. We did a rewatchables about city slickers that's running on Monday. Jack Palance. It's about these guys going and having a midlife crisis at age 39. I think Rogers is having a midlife crisis. Don't they seem older than 39?

Yeah. They do seem like mid forties. They all have kids and they're like teens. I'm like city slickers doesn't date too well. Okay. Jack Palance is like, you need to find your one thing. And it's like, Hey Rogers, what's your one thing? You seem like you're all over the map. And I still, nobody's been able to explain to me why he's mad at the Packers. Is it just a hundred percent because of the Jordan Love thing? Because other than that, they've been really successful and they put together a good organization. They've drafted well. They've been competitive every year. They had a chance to win the Superbowl last year. So it's either you're just mad

at you're just being spiteful about the Jordan Love thing or you hate living in Wisconsin. You want to live on the West Coast with your girlfriend, which is what I think the reason is, which brings me to my point. Vegas is 41 to 1 to win the AFC. Vegas is

six and a half for their win total right now. So if they go seven and ten, you win. I think Vegas is the and a half for their win total right now. So if they go seven and 10, you win. I think Vegas is the most likely spot for Aaron Rodgers if and when he gets traded, not Denver. Because as you said, that Denver GM six-year deal, he doesn't have to swing his dick around and cross his fingers and hope he gets a big move. Gruden, on the other hand,

he's heading toward the middle of that gigantic, awful deal they signed him to. He doesn't care about first-round picks as much because he can't really draft that well. He could immediately talk him something. Here, take three of our first-round picks and take

Carr back. You can have him too. Let's go. I have Aaron Rodgers. I could just see him doing it. And then if you're Rodgers, you're an hour flight away from California. Okay, first point, I don't think they're going to do anything based on where Aaron Rodgers wants to go.

After this whole thing, I don't think the Packers are going to say, well, where would Aaron be happy? That's not their concern at the moment. Number two... You mean after he trashed everybody who makes a decision on the team for months, never came out of his mouth. And we don't know if that's his words, but there certainly hasn't been a rebuttal from Aaron Rogers on any of it.

Yeah. Number two, the Vegas thing, what's interesting as, cause I, I thought the same thing draft weekend. I'm like, Oh, he's going to be a Raider. No problem. And I got stuff back from people around the league. One source who's really tied into the Raiders, like, look, they're sold out in that new stadium. Like they are doing very well. They don't need his face on a billboard. It's not like they need anything to add to their bottom line. Like the Vegas deal, whereas the Rams and Chargers

are figuring it out in LA still. Like the Vegas thing is a whopping success as far as season tickets, money, suites, all that stuff. By the way, great spot for the stadium. Is it? I haven't been out there yet. It's right in the heart of downtown when you're on the highway.

If you're driving, let's say you're driving to Vegas. You see it though? The strip is on the right. Okay. And then the stadium's on the left. It's gigantic. You can't miss it. It's beautiful. It's really cool. It's right in the right okay and then the the stadium's on the left it's gigantic you can't it's beautiful it's really cool it's right in the middle of it yeah that's cool no and it's gonna be you know i think the la thing gets all the press but like the raiders are gonna

have a really cool deal and they've got a nightclub in the end zone the whole deal anyway you've got that the final piece to it is now you're getting a little later in the season it's gonna be july soon it's gonna be august like i'm not sure if season. It's going to be July soon. It's going to be August. I'm not sure if Gruden just rips it all up and says, here's three first round picks. And as good as Aaron Rodgers is, I don't know if part of them is like, we're 10 toes down on Derek Carr here. And this is our guy, we're paying him and we're going to ride it out. This is our dude. Because they could have made a move a thousand times. They could have started Mariota last year. They could have drafted someone three straight drafts. Carr continues to put up big numbers and yet they miss the playoffs every

season. I would think Denver, even with the new GM and the whole deal, I think Denver makes more sense than Las Vegas at the moment. Is there a mystery team you think could be in there? I don't. At one point, I was like, obviously, San Francisco before all this stuff. You've been hearing the Rodgers rumors since March. And the San Francisco stuff was interesting because before they even traded up for Trey Lance, you've got the Jimmy Garoppolo situation where he's going into the final year, really next year of his contract. And then you've got Rogers from Northern California, Rogers and John Lynch. Those guys know each other for years. There's a connection there. And I just thought that always made sense. And yet they went in, they just got the number three overall pick and took a quarterback. So you could cross off San

Francisco and then Miami. I thought Miami would make a lot of sense. I thought Miami actually was really interested. And I could tell you, I heard it from people not in Miami, but outside, that they were the major leaders in the Deshaun Watson stuff. But then once Watson's whole deal blew up like it did, they kind of backed off and they're like, all right, Tua's our guy. So I don't know many teams other than Denver. If you go through the quarterback rooms, everyone obviously would rather have Aaron Rodgers,

with the exception of maybe Mahomes, than their own quarterback. But when you start talking about trading second, third trading three, four first round picks for Rodgers, I don't think it makes sense. And the final part of it is, I don't think Green Bay wants to trade him. Chuck Pagano was talking to Pat McAfee yesterday and I was listening to him. I love Chuck. We talk to him all the time because he's got just great insights. And he's like, if I'm Matt LaFleur, I would rather be dead than be the coach who trades Aaron Rodgers. And I think a lot of that is true up there in Green Bay.

I think they'd rather see him retire or just not play than watch him suit up for the Denver Broncos and take them to the Super Bowl. So you think they would rather an Andrew Luck situation than get three first round picks for him? Gosh, I don't know. I don't think they want to trade him. I don't think Goody wants to have that on his resume.

But if you're telling me in late July, the Broncos or early August are offering three first round picks and you can have Drew Locke or Bridgewater, it'd be hard to... Oh, gee, thanks. Hey, what about your team, the G-Men? I don't see that. I think they like Daniel Jones. Oh, my God. Can the bartender cut them off, please?

Let me give you the positives on the Daniel Jones hype train. Smart as shit. No. Tough as shit. Tough as shit. Okay. And they say he throws the ball a mile

and he's respected there. Now look, he's not Joe Namath as far as personality goes and all this stuff. But they think that this guy is a complete sponge with the playbook, strong arm, and is tough,

like played hurt last year. So they're in on him. Sorry. Except for the part where he repeatedly gives the ball to the other team. That sounds great. Is he still going to fumble at every big possession

over the course of a 17-game season? Probably. He's tough as shit, dude. To me, quarterback fumbles cannot be fixed. I just look at that and I'm like, you are who you are with that stuff. If you're running back fumbles,

sometimes the guys can get better at it. But if a quarterback is sloppy with the ball, unfixable. It's a major problem. And I think this is obviously the season. I'll tell you who else I'd be watching. Jason Garrett is the offensive coordinator because last year when Saquon went down,

that offense was basically like, what do we do now? And it was not innovative. And when you're in a league with Kingsbury and McVay and Sean Payton and Bruce Arians, where they're doing all sorts of crazy jet sweeps, you can't be running the 2012 DeMarco Murray Cowboys offense. There needs to be something.

So laugh if you want, but Freddie Kitchens is in that room and he did a lot of that cool stuff with the Browns. He's not the OC, but I know they lean on him a lot. Maybe Freddie Kitchens unleashes something as ironic as that sounds in a young quarterback in Daniel Jones. Broncos 12 to one to win the conference. The odds are still reflecting your feeling that in a lot of people out there that if he does get traded, it'll be to Denver. If he does, yeah. I think Peter King had a good scenario in his article this week, and I hadn't considered it, but Green Bay doesn't want to trade him.

They desperately want him back. LaFleur on the record looks like a guy who's lost his puppy talking about how badly he wants McVay there, or not McVay, Rodgers there. And I feel like the thing that Peter King proposed was alright come back this year you don't have to talk to our front office you don't have to even shake hands with Mark Murphy or whoever else

just come back for one more season give us a full offseason to explore a trade as opposed to this bomb being dropped you know in late April where there's no suitors

and it's after free agency whether Rodgers would agree to that I don't know but I'm not so certain he ever plays for that team again what if so you think more likely he ever plays for that team again. So you think more likely he doesn't play for them again or more likely he does play for them?

I think it's 50-50 and we're heading towards July at this point. They maybe have one more practice and then they've got a couple next week where it's going to be all the young guys. The veterans aren't going to be expected to be there. And then we start training camp and it's like, you've got to have a solution here. You can't just be waiting on someone out in Hawaii with a ukulele singing,

shake it off with the guy from Top Gun. We got to get going here. I love that scenario of him, Miles Teller, Mrs. Miles, and Shailene Woodley. And they're just sitting around some tiki hut at 1030 at night on their fifth whatever drink. And he's just like, and Rodgers is like, I'm just not happy, guys. And Shailene Woodley is like, just follow your heart, Aaron. Just follow your heart. You don't have to play. You don't need football.

He's just got all these people in his life who probably don't even understand what he does. I absolutely love Rodgers. He's been really good to the Good Morning Football Show. He comes on with us. He's as unique a quarterback as it is and i almost feel like he would appreciate us like smiling and grinning at this like situation from afar and not and even mocking him like he's literally playing uh you know he's got like the jack johnson flake he's playing it on like a an acoustic guitar by the campfire while he's like i'm not happy it's like that looks pretty good to

me dude you got a pretty good deal over there. And he's in this, the most Zen-like situation. He's out there with the waterfall and he goes on Kenny Mayne and he looks great. And he's got the tan and the hair's long. And he's every beach bum surfer dude that you've ever envied in your life for having it all. And he still, in that moment, can't say, I'll be back or don't worry, it'll all work itself out. So if he's at his absolute namaste, zen-like moment, and he still is unhappy, I'm not sure he's ever going to suddenly flip the switch and be like, all right, I'm coming back and let's do the whole cheesehead thing again one more year.

Well, I hate when athletes do this. I'm on the record every time. Harden was another one. I'm sure he learned from the Harden stuff, but I just need a reason. Like if the Harden thing made a little more sense, because he's like, I was so close all those years, but on the same time he was telling them what to do, they were making trades to make him happy. And then when it didn't work, he's like, all right, I'm out. The Rodgers thing still is weird to me that you would think they went like five and 11 last year. They didn't. They were 13 and three.

They could. I know. They easily could have made the Super Bowl. It's like, what are you mad at? Just be honest about it. A couple more playoff odds things. The Washington football team. Okay.

27 to 1 to win the NFC. That would assume Rams, Bucs, the two most talented teams by far. Something weird happened with both. Yeah. And we moved into this, holy shit, that team's gonna be in the Super Bowl

I personally think it's gotta be Rams or Bucks and I don't even like the idea of an NFC sleeper but so if you're gonna say Washington 27-1 Giants

31-1 to win the NFC let's go you like that one more? I mean it's a long shot look I honestly believe it's Rams Bucks,

and then I'll put Seattle in there just because the quarterback is so darn good. And I know they always lose in the wildcard round, but like, I don't know. I feel like you get in a playoff situation. Healthy Adams? You get, yeah, you get, you know, Jamal Adams is healthy.

You have Metcalf and Lockett. Obviously we can list the whole roster, but you get in a playoff situation and it's, all right. Upstart, you know, Washington home against Seattle, Seattle wins. All right. Now we've got this, you know, this fun team that, you know, whatever you pick at Arizona, Russell Wilson knows how to win a playoff game. Pete Carroll knows how to win a playoff game. So I would say those are the three teams, San Francisco, I'd put in the mix just because they were there two years ago and they

get the whole defense back. And I think they're going to be pretty good. But it's tough for me to say Washington's going to run the table in the NFC. I'm going to give you my lock. So we're taping this. It's June 10th. This is my lock future bet. Kyle, I hope you're sitting down. Patriots plus 126 to make the playoffs.

I like it. Guess who's making the playoffs this year? The New England Patriots plus 126 to make the playoffs. I like it. Guess who's making the playoffs this year? The New England Patriots. Yeah, they didn't screw around this offseason. Way, way, way, way, way better than they were last year. Guess who's not missing the playoffs two years in a row? Bill Belichick. You're right.

They have a ton of talent. And I think the most underrated storyline with the Patriots that you'll appreciate was, you know, they had a practice on Thursday and everyone's talking about Mac Jones or Cam Newton. Guess who stepped on that field? Dante Hightower stepped on that field. Oh, don't think I didn't notice. And did it as the quarterback of the defense. And everyone I speak to in new England is like, do you have any idea how important that guy is to our team? Do you have any idea how important all those opt-outs were to our team?

Yes, they revamped with free agency and yes, the quarterbacks are going to be a big story, but the fact they get all those opt-outs on the offensive line and the linebackers, I think it's huge. And Belichick, I'm with you. He's not missing the playoffs two years in a row. Certainly not a year after Tom Brady

just won a Super Bowl. Plus 126. I love it. Lock it down. I also, the Browns had 16-1 to win the Super Bowl. I just like the odds. Good odds. Even though it's very bandwagon-y, I just like the odds. There's what, five teams have

a real chance to win the Super Bowl? What are the Buffalo Bills odds? Do we have that on hand? So we have Casey is 5-1, Tampa's plus 650, Buffalo 12-1, Niners 13-1, Baltimore 14-1,

Rams 14-1, Browns 16-1, and then it starts dropping off. Should we do a Rams-Bills parlay right now on June 10th? Like I feel like the Bills... For the conference championships? I don't know.

For the Super Bowl. Let's go. I don't know. the Superbowl. Let's go. I don't know. Yeah. So you'd have to bet. So bills is plus 600 Rams is plus six 50 as a two team parlay on fan door plus 51 50. I mean,

I mean, you got a hundred dollars. You could win $5,150. All right. So let's think about the bills, right? They knocked on the door last year. Josh Allen's going to be an MVP candidate. He might win the MVP this year. And they get their fans back. They get that incredible home field advantage that they've

always used, especially in December and all these games. And it was interesting. The NFL put out the schedule and I laughed because Klosterman came on with you and he's like, I watched a 30 minute documentary about the schedule makers. Did anyone else watch it? I did. I watched it. And I loved it. And it was incredible. And I suggest you watch it, Bill. You'd love it too. It's 30 minutes. It's in and out. It's fascinating. But in that software, they do the whole machinations. It's weird. The Saints have five primetime games. I believe the 49ers have five primetime games. They only gave the Bills four primetime games with only one of them being home. And you think, well, that's a major disadvantage or that's the league saying they're not fans. That means the Bills get these one o'clock East Coast games throughout the season

as if they're a seven and nine team or something that just way below what they were. That's a real big advantage. When you know your home confines and it were, that's a real big advantage when you know your home confines and it's not like all day waiting for a game and you can just roll out and play. Like, I think the bills are going to be awesome this year. Right. There you go. Uh, flying coach, how many episodes we have left? Five. Got five more, five more. And then we'll, you'll, you'll be back on before, uh, this season, but yeah, you're coming back on Thursdays,

million dollar picks. Can I, Can I just give you my favorite story of Flying Coach so far, which I think the listeners haven't done it. I mean, it's literally at the end of an hour and a half conversation with Cliff Kingsbury. And Sean McVay says, Cliff, can I tell the Instagram story?

And I'm like, all right, what does this mean? And Kingsbury is like, all right, go ahead. Sean says, week 17, 2019 season, the Cardinals have been eliminated. The Rams have been eliminated. They both had just bad seasons. He gets a call from Cliff Kingsbury the morning of the game. And the game plans have already been baked in everything. And McVay never hears from the opposing coach the day of, but these guys are friends for years. Picks up the phone. He's like, yeah, what's up?

He's like, I need two field passes. And McVay's like, I don't worry about tickets the day of the game. I'm certainly not worrying about field passes. I've never gotten this request before. Cliff's like, you know I would not ask you for two field passes if it isn't something that's important to me.

So Sean goes to the highest levels of the Rams organization. He's asking Kevin Demoff, the president. He's asking the number two guy, we got to get two field passes. Well, it's the last game ever in the LA Coliseum. It's just hard at this point to just manufacture that. It got to go through processes. He calls up Cliff. He says, Cliff, why is it so important? He goes, yeah, okay, fine. I'll tell you. I met a girl on Instagram, a European Instagram model, and I want to get her on the field and I've got

a date afterwards. And McVay's like, I'll make it happen. They make it happen. And the joke of the podcast, which I love is like, why you're seeing a different side of these coaches. McVay says, yeah, you know, we won that game. And then Cliff says, yeah, but I won the pregame and McVay ends it with, and probably the post game too. And I'm like, yeah, let's go. So it's different. Like we're not talking about the three, four scheme. We're not talking about why the backup tight end made a special block. There's a lot of stuff for coaches.

It's not quite the same vibe as what Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll did last year, which was awesome. But it's a little bit a side of these guys that you don't get anywhere else. And I'm just, I'm so thrilled to be a part of it. So I thank you for even giving us the keys to do it. Awesome.

Well, we love having you on The Ringer and it's been an awesome podcast to have. Good to see you. I'm sure I'll see you later in the summer. Great stuff. Go Giants! All right. Mally Rubin is here.

She does a lot of things at The Ringer. We've been working together for a long, long, long, fruitful time. Almost a decade. Now hosting The Ringerverse podcast or one of the hosts on that. Wait, before we get to what I wanted to talk to you about, congratulations on the 12-team playoff for college football that you've been hoping for, leading you to your dream of eventually a 64-team college football playoff,

which I know you've been hoping for. You know, I'm a fan of the ever-expanding postseason format. four-team college football playoff, which I know you've been hoping for. I'm a fan of the ever-expanding postseason format. I consider it one of life's inevitabilities and eventualities. In Loki, we learn that the timelines are unpredictable, but in college football, we know to always expect expansion. So I brought you on to talk about Loki, this new show. As you know, I know really nothing about the Marvel universe. I haven't even seen the adventures movies. I've just missed it. My I'm waiting for my son.

You were watching all of them. You were doing an MCU watch. I did. Right around 2010, we kind of fell off. Um, okay. So I wanted you to come on cause on ringer verse,

you guys are breaking down Loki and we can get all the deep dives, deep cuts, everything. This is for the normal people like me who don't know what's going on with these shows. Try to explain Loki to somebody like me to get me to watch who doesn't really know that much about the Marvel Universe. Why would I watch this? Because here's my issue with the Marvel Universe. Now, because all these things are connected in all these different ways, I feel disenfranchised. I just feel like I can't watch

this because I don't know the backstory of these other people. And is it possible for somebody like me to just be like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to watch Loki and actually know what's going on. Of course it is. It's never too late to hop aboard the MCU Express. Now, I will say that Phase 4, which is where we are in the MCU, right?

And we're three Disney Plus TV shows in. We've had WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Now, Loki is the third show. Black Widow is coming out in July. And that will be the first movie of Phase 4. The first three phases are, of course, as you know, the Infinity Saga. I mean, you're always talking about the Infinity Stones. You're a big soul stone head. We all know how you feel about Vormir and Red Skull. Promise you there are people who are laughing at that right now.

I don't know what you're talking about just now, but go ahead. Keep going. So there's a lot of MCU canon and history. And in Loki in particular, because this is a character who is elemental to the first three phases of the MCU, there's a lot of history and a lot of through lines. And of course, the viewing experience

will be heightened and enriched if you bring all of that to it. However, there are also, as is true to the spirit of comic book storytellings, plenty of on-ramps and moments where you can start anew. So if you're sitting there saying, what's all this fuss about? Loki looks like a fun show.

Should I try it or is it going to be too hard to keep up? There will be moments while you're watching where you're saying, this seems like a lot to track, a lot of characters. What's up with all these timelines who are the time keepers why is that person's face blue etc but you get a couple helpful montages and recaps in the premiere that are very effective shorthand to catch you up on lo's journey in particular. I would also recommend that you head to Disney Plus if you're interested in catching up very quickly and checking out their Legends video recaps that they do. You can watch like a six, seven minute video and get the essence

of the Loki experience. And I think you just have to make peace with the fact if you're starting the MCU journey now, that there are gonna be things that you have to decide basically whether you want to learn more about but the thing is there are a lot of different ways to watch these shows and these movies sometimes it's about immersing yourself fully in every aspect of the mythology sometimes you just want to hang and the thing that I can tell you about Loki is that the vibes are great. It's awesome. It's awesome. Who's the star of Loki? Tom Hiddleston plays Loki. Tom!

Didn't he date Taylor Swift? Wonderful! Taylor Swift, Flame, Once Upon a Time? Yeah, famous celebrity couple. Owen Wilson, new to the MCU for Loki. He's playing Mobius and the... I won't get into

too many plot specifics or spoilers from the premiere, but I will just say one of the most delightful things about the first installment is that a huge, huge amount of the episode,

way more than I was expecting. Just Owen Wilson, Tom Hiddleston, Mobius and Loki sitting at a table in the time theater talking about the nature of life. Choice destiny free will humanity the capacity for change good versus evil it was like being in a philosophy 101 class inside of a mainstream pop culture experience and I fucking love that it was great and I actually you're starting to convince me there's, who's the actress who I like from The Morning Show who's in this? The Morning Show?

Not a show I've seen. Oh, okay. But is it Gugu? Gugu. I haven't seen The Morning Show. Should I watch The Morning Show? No. No, you probably shouldn't.

I would probably skip it. But I like Gugu, though. Gugu plays Judge Renslayer. And it's a very intriguing character. Some very intriguing possibilities about the canon and what's going to ultimately unfold about the TVA and the timekeepers and this idea of the sacred timeline and inside of the MCU.

This is basically... What's the other thing that I would throw out as a pitch for you? It's a genre show, and that's one of the things that's really fun about the MCU in general. You have these through lines and these consistent stories and character arcs

that build and are really rewarding if you move movie to movie, show to show, year after year. But there's a lot of variance within the MCU because so many of the stories are crafted to fill a different genre and give you a different vibe. So Loki is going to be based on everything that Kevin Feige and Michael Waldron and Kate Herron and the Marvel team have said based on the trailers, based on what we've seen in the first episode. Like time hopping spy thriller, action adventure story.

And it's also going to be in parallel and harmony with that story of the week, this like deeply moving and existential examination of existence and human connection. And I think that, you know, the best fantasy stories can grip us so fully because they give you that sort of blend where you ask really profound questions about the choices people make in the way they live and

what that means, what the ramifications are on their own life, on other people's lives, maybe on the timeline, maybe on the multiverse itself. And also you get to see in the premiere, and it's in the trailer, so I don't consider this a spoiler. Loki as D.B. Cooper. Airplane hijack heist. Great stuff. Oh, I like airplane hijack heist.

Yeah, it's so fun. You would love it. All right. I might watch the first one with my son. My son finished seventh grade today, so he's got plenty of time. Oh, how wonderful. Feels like he's...

Congrats to Ben. Could be ready for... Yeah, congrats to Ben. When do you think I'll ever see you again? In person? Yeah, this is the longest we haven't seen each other in like 10 years. Just waiting for you to ask, man.

Are you leaving your house yet? I mean, you were afraid of... You were afraid of germs before the pandemic. You were wiping down doorknobs and wouldn't come into work if people were sick. Yeah, you were, I would say, exceptionally cautious. But now what happens? I would be absolutely delighted to see you as two vaccinated human beings at an outdoor location of your choosing whenever you would like. You want to screen the Loki premiere

outside in your yard? This is great. Count me in. Wait, so I get to see you again? You want me to run you through what every Infinity Stone did or didn't do? I'm there for you. Outdoors, whenever you'd like.

This is great. Count me in, man. This is great. I don't know how long the hug's going to be, but it'll be at least two minutes. But you'll be wearing a hazmat suit, so you won't care. It's going to be emotional to see you again.

Are you going to be dressed like an astronaut? What are you going to be dressed like? You know, I have to be honest. One of the things that I've completely lost a feel for is how to actually dress to be around other people or do anything. I've been wearing pajamas and slippers for 14 and a half months. I might just continue doing that. I don't know. I think the best I can do for going outside is joggers. That's the most I'm

willing to commit to. We taped the Goodfellas Rewatchables and I wore pants and a shirt. And the whole time I was thinking like, man, these pants, it's really, really invasive. They're just always thinking about this belt I have on. So then when we did it yesterday, I just wore jogging pants and a t-shirt, told them no video. And it was wonderful. And that's just kind of how I want to roll in life. I just want to wear jogging pants. I'm not prepared to commit to a ton for the future, but I can tell you with something approximating certainty that I will never wear anything without an elastic waistband again. Ever.

I'm kind of with you. I've worn a belt three times in the last year. And every time I was like, why did we create these? When we had this other alternative, this other universe with elastic waistbands. Wonderful. What were we doing? I'm with you. Yeah.

What's wrong with just being comfortable? T-shirts, jogging pants. Yeah. You know what's great? Athleisure. I will say one thing that I miss, you know, and I'm sure Kyle, my fellow sneaker enthusiast, will agree.

I do miss making my way through my sneaker collection. That was a big part of my life pre-pandemic. Trying to figure out what to wear. And I really only worn my Adidas slides and Ultra Boost

during quarantine. I switched a couple weeks ago to a pair of Space Hippie 4s, which I'm enjoying, but it's been a very long time since I've gone through the sneaker rotation, so that'll be fun. I look forward to seeing how my Air Jordans and Air Max mix with my

elastic waistband pajama pants that have donuts and coffee cups on them. Can't wait to test that out in public. I'll tell you this. We've done three rewatchables in person. I think we've all talked to ourselves in the Zoom being good because it was kind of a lifesaver, especially for a company like ours.

It's like, no, no, Zoom, it's almost, it's just as good. And it's like, it's just not. It's so much better to be in person. It's so much better to just talk about work with two people that are in the same room with you. Just to not be on a screen and to actually interact with other humans has really been a delight. Yeah. Zoom has been an incredible gift during this time, but I look forward to being with you

all again. I miss you dearly. Watch Loki. Let me know what you think. I look forward to having an outdoor elastic pants hug with you at some point for the first time we've seen each other in 15 months. Mallory, thanks for coming on. Oh, don't forget to ringerverse. Give us the schedule really quick for people who haven't talked yet. Please check out the ringerverse. It is the nexus podcast feed for all nerd culture and fandom.

We're obviously going heavy on Loki and Marvel right now. We also hit on Star Wars, all sorts of nerd culture across that feed. Right now, the schedule is two Loki shows per week, so you can check out the instant reaction

Midnight Boys show with Van Lathan and Charles Holmes every Wednesday. They have their instant reaction. Don't have to wait. You can hear from them right away. It's like talking about the show

with your friends, arguing about it with your friends right after you watch it. That's Wednesdays. Don't have to wait. You can hear from them right away. It's like talking about the show with your friends, arguing about it with your friends right after you watch it. That's Wednesdays. Then come back on Fridays. I will be there with a deeper dive into the themes, the theories that have emerged over the couple of days since the episode aired,

answering your mailbag questions. And we do it all again the next week. And hey, if a new Marvel trailer drops, something else happens in the Nerdverse, come back to the Ringerverse. We'll be there for you. So we created this feed, which has been successful,

anticipating a world where these things are going to be coming fast and furious, which feels like that's a couple months away from all of a sudden we will be locked and loaded. Fast and furious, another thing we'll be covering on Ringerverse. Is that, so that's a Ringerverse? That's a Ringerverse IP, Fast and Furious? It's an interesting case study.

But, and I should say, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm currently watching the Fast movies for the first time ever. What an experience. Oh my goodness. I finally have met Han. My life is forever altered after meeting Han. The James Bond of our generation. Incredible stuff.

A lot of the fantasy themes, you know, the family you choose, part of that story. And also, as I understand it, I'm still catching up. They kind of become superheroes, right? So there's a big fandom culture and community around the movies. The Midnight Boys will be there for you. Will they drive a car from one building into another or off of a dock into a boat? Those are things that I am currently aware happen in those movies. Who can say? Tune in to find out. Follow us on Spotify. How many Fast and Furious are you through? I watched Tokyo Drift last weekend,, I'm early in my journey still.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, I'll be interested after, after a certain, tell me when you're, when you're done, because I'll have some questions. All right. Mallory. Great to see you as always. Great to see you too.

All right. That's it for the podcast. We're back Sunday night with, uh, Rosillo. I don't know if we're doing the part one, part two gimmick. We'll see how the playoff games go. But I will see you on Sunday night, either with a full pot or with a part one or a part two. Have a good weekend. I don't have feelings within

On the wayside I'm a bruised soul I never was I don't have feelings within