The Bill Simmons Podcast - Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Storylines With Brian Windhorst, Plus a Boston Check-In With Bill’s Dad

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN's Brian Windhorst to discuss the most intriguing NBA playoff storylines, including: "Is this it for the Warriors?", "What's next for the Tatum-Brown duo?", "Are the 76ers coming to a fork in the road?", "What happens if the Hawks get swept in Round 1?", and more (6:19). Then Bill talks with his dad about the state of Boston sports, including a historic Bruins team, Red Sox turmoil, the playoff-bound Celtics, and more (1:08:46). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Brian Windhorst and Bill's Dad Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, NBA playoffs, Boston sports, two of my favorite things. It's next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Char month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other

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with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Sunday night, right after Succession ends on HBO, we'll be putting up a new episode

of the Prestige TV podcast, breaking down episode four, which was another awesome episode. Stay tuned for that. If you're not checking out the stuff we're doing on FanDuel TV, please do. You can also see it on the Spotify app on the Through the Ringer podcast.

Tay Frazier today on the Through the Ringer show, he had three of my favorite guests, Rob Mahoney, Ben Solek, and Van Lathan talking succession odds. Really entertaining. I watched it this morning when I woke up, had some coffee, and you can watch it too on the Through the Ringer app. So check that out. Speaking of FanDuel, we got to talk some bets. We got to talk NBA playoff stuff.

Please listen to the Ringer Gambling Show with East Coast Bias. We'll be breaking all this stuff down on Friday as well. Had a couple bets I like. I had a good year with the NBA. If you go back to our Over Under podcast before the year, I was six and one on my locks. My finals pick was Bucks Nuggets, which was 33 to one odds. One of my favorite bets was Nuggets to win the one seed. That was plus 550.

Just in general, I've had a pretty good feeling dating back to the NFL season. I don't want to jinx it. Why am I talking about this? I've been doing really badly. Don't look. All right, here's what I got for you. Fando is going to boost this

on Saturday. I call it the LeBron special. Cleveland wins. The Lakers upset Memphis in game one and LeBron scores 25 plus in that game. Right now, those odds are like plus 305 range. Fando is going to boost that on Saturday for you. Stay tuned for that. Go to their app. And then a series bet I like that I'm trying to get them to boost. Celtics to beat the Hawks. Phoenix to beat the Clippers. The Clippers without Paul George, they're not beating Phoenix. I'm just telling you now. They might get two games. They might get one game, but it's not happening. They're not beating Phoenix. And then I really like the Cavaliers against the Knicks. They're like minus, I don't know, they're two to one favorites, basically. A little bit extra juice on that.

Randall is coming back. We'll see if he's even 100%. But just in general, I think this Cavs team, undervalued, underrated, excellent defensively, especially with the Mobley-Allen common, especially Mobley, who I voted for defensive player of the year. They have the best player in the series in Mitchell. And I think there's some New York

hype with that Knicks team, which look, I think that Knicks team is good. They're not as good as the Cavs. The roadmap for the Knicks winning that series would be, you'd have to hit a bunch of threes in at least three of the games. And I think Brunson honestly would have to average like 33, 34, 35 points a game and match Mitchell. I think that's a lot to ask. They have a lot of stuff they can throw at Mitchell. I think the Cavs are good. I really do.

I think they're a good team. So Cavs, Celtics, Suns, series parlay right now is minus 108. Basically even odds. And we'll see if we can get Fandu to boost that. And since we're here, three fun exact game bets. I like the exact game bets. I'm going to try to hit at least one of these,

hopefully two. Phoenix and five over the Clippers. Again, I just don't think the Clippers have the firepower. And if anything, we're going to talk with Windhorst about this in a second, but there's some blow it up potential with the Clippers or some panic button potential with the Clippers. We'll see. Second one, Golden State in six plus 240 to beat Sacramento. And I know all the red flags, 30 plus road wins, Sacramento chip on their shoulder. Can't believe that they're not

favored in this series. They had a better record. They've been better all season. This is their big brother, you know, 75 miles away that kicks their ass all the time. There's all these reasons to think, don't do this. Here's the thing. Golden State won the title last year and they basically brought everybody back and they had the same infrastructure, same coach. They have the best player in the series, Steph Curry. They're playing a team that really can't get defensive stops at all and has

to outscore you. If Golden State loses this series, this would be one of the most disastrous things that has ever happened to a defending champ. I would put it against the 1983 Sixers winning the title and the next year losing a best of five to Michael Ray Richardson and the Nets, which I always felt like should have been attached to their legacy as a great team. The fact that they couldn't even win a round the next year. So you just have to take yourself out of this and just think logically for a second. The Warriors, they're not going to win a round. They're going to lose to a team that has not made the playoffs in 17 years or 18 years. I can't remember how long it

is. I don't see it. And I think they win in six and that's plus 240. You could say Golden State in seven is kind of fun. They'd go on the road in Sacramento and win, but you don't want to mess with that. Golden State in six sounds right. And then Cavs in five plus 310 is the other one I have for you. I think at least one of those hit, probably two, but incredibly, incredibly fun series. I can't wait for it to get going. You can find all those bets on FanDuel Sportsbook and we're going to talk about the NBA playoffs

in one second with our old friend, Brian Windhorst and then we're going to bring my dad on to talk about the Bruins and the Celtics and this incredible time in the Boston sports scene right now, where you have two teams that legitimately have a chance to win the title, which has not happened in a long, long time. You have to go back to 2011-12 range, the end of the KG era when the Bruins were still really good. They won the cup in 2011. But my dad is super excited. So we're going to talk a lot of Boston sports

and our fear for this Celtics team. Multiple fears, actually. That is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam! All right, we're taping this late Thursday morning Pacific time. Our friend Brian Windhorst is here from ESPN. This is the time of year when ESPN works Brian Windhorst. I think, what, 78 straight days? Do you get to go to the bathroom?

Do you get to eat lunch? What happens? Is it just you're just in front of a camera at all times? Yeah. It's 1.45-ish Eastern. I woke up at 5.45 Eastern. I was on my first Zoom at 6. I did four hours straight on Get Up and First Take.

Then I recorded my pod, The Hoop Collective. And then I just did some digital recordings. So I pretty much have been on straight. As soon as we're done here, I will immediately go to do NBA Today. And then I have to take my son to baseball practice at four o'clock. go to do NBA today and then I have to take my son to baseball practice at 4 o'clock.

This is great. I like getting in when you're punchy. I don't want you I don't want to be the first appearance. I want to be like the fifth when you're just kind of letting it fly and going. I would have picked a different day for this. This will be the most enjoyable. I would have picked a different day. I didn't realize you were that slim. No. But see that's the thing. Once go, there's no stopping it. We've both been doing

this a long time and we've been covering the NBA for a long time in various forms. This is the most wide open, fascinating, intriguing playoffs. So one of the reasons I wanted you to come on is I wanted to go through the most intriguing playoff storylines and try to figure out if we could create a hierarchy. But I'm going to jump ahead just quickly to the Friday night where we have Minnesota playing OKC. We have Miami playing Chicago. And I think Minnesota and Miami are on blow it up watch. Let's say both of those teams lose. Who is a bigger blow it up candidate? Copyright,

Kevin O'Connor. Um, for you, Miami just misses the playoffs. They lose two playing games and they're out or Minnesota, this go bear disaster. And then they end up losing to this OKC team that doesn't even have a center going into the summer.

What's the team you're watching more? I don't see how Minnesota can blow it up. They're kind of locked in. I suppose you're talking in code about a Carl Towns trade. That's the code you're talking about? Either. Do you go big on a Towns trade or do you just say, whoa,

the Go-Bear, this is a sunk cost. Maybe we can dump them to a team like Dallas that might be desperate enough to grab them boy that's a really good podcast topic um i hadn't thought about minnesota i think there are some teams that if they have a failure i mean one of the issues about this whole season was there's too many teams that are all in or close to all in, and there's just not enough success to go around. You know, David Stern used to give these lectures about how for every team rising, there's a team falling.

And for every owner that's thrilled, there's an owner who's depressed because there's only, I don't remember how many games there are, 1,800 or something. There's a finite amount of wins, and it's not getting bigger except for Adam Silver, who keeps adding games um so like for example in the east we got how many years has it been since the Celtics have paid the tax like a decade right they're all in Wick is digging down and paying the tax the Sixers got hardened they got to worry about they you know robbed from Peter to pay Paul this season. What's the fallout there?

And the Bucs, I mean, nobody's talking about this, but Giannis has a contract extension option coming in September. And his comment on that is going to be pretty important. And so, if this doesn't go well for the Bucs,

they got Middleton, who's a free agent. They got, potentially, he can opt out. They got Brooke Lopez, who's a free agent. They got, potentially, he can opt out. They got Brooke Lopez, who's a free agent. They re-signed on those guys. And then we got all these teams that are getting eliminated that are acting like, well, just you wait, America.

And that's what we're getting from Portland and Dallas and Houston. They're all like, okay, here we go. Now we're going to go get veterans. And I'm like, well, you and 11 other people. I know that's a long-winded way of saying Minnesota, I guess, could do that. The thing that happened with Gobert is they kind of cast their lot because they're locked in in terms of players and picks.

The only guy that they have on their roster that's got super value that isn't one of their max guys is Jaden McDaniels, who they're probably about to sign to a contract that's going to be that level. Yeah. Towns would be interesting because his contract is so locked in. You'd be trading for a guy with a lot on his deal. But you'd also be trading for a guy with a lot on his deal. But I think the answer is... You'd also be trading for a guy with a lot on his deal.

I mean, there's like... I think one of the years starts with a six at one point. Well, that's Dame. We're starting to ramp up Dame stuff. Dame's last year, age 36, I think, is 63. 63. When I started covering the NBA, the max was 14.

I'm starting to feel my age. Anyway, I think the answer is Miami. Because first off, Miami always hunts stars. And I don't know for sure, just to be clear, but Miami has kind of, they haven't gotten into the bidding seriously for any of these stars in the last like 18 months. And I think it's because they've been keeping their assets dry

and waiting for a player to say, I want to be in Miami. Now they're going to have competition because there's going to be several places where if guys want to force their way, they could try to force their way. You know, New York is still out there. Phoenix, I know that it doesn't seem like Phoenix, but they have Aiton and they have Chris Paul's contract. They can't give you any draft picks, but if a star player wanted to,

or, you know, even like a, you know, sort of but if a star player wanted to or you know even like a you know sort of a ancillary star wanted to force you know phoenix could still do something so there's going to be you know issues with that but you know miami this is what they do they they try to go get stars and their last iteration was jim. And for better or worse, Jimmy's gotten them to one finals and then was within a whisker of getting them to another. It hasn't been the most decorated run in Heat history, but it's been a decent marriage. And he's still got gas in the tank.

And they have tradable contracts. Tyler Hero comes on at that huge number. They have Duncan Robinson. Obviously, Duncan's not an asset, but you can use him in a big deal. And so when you're starting to dream about Dame Lillard spots, Miami's on that list. So, you know, Pat Riley always thinks big,

and I expect them to be thinking that way if that's what happens. The problem for them is the moves they made in the last 18 months really have hindered their chance to go all in for somebody because you're gonna have to take a bad contract back which i thought was telling in the gobert trade last year and a couple other ones where teams teams want the flexibility over uh we're taking this poison thing too umipo, player option for 9.5 next year. He's taken that.

Robinson, 16.1 next year. Nothing you can do with that one. And then Lowry's an expiring at 29.6. It keeps going for a really long time. Yeah. So I almost wonder, well,

it's tough because they have Bam. like to me, I wonder if they would go the other way and say, all right, Luca, a year from now, two years from now, do we go the other way? Do we zag for a year? Do we try to tank for a year? Do we just say, fuck it, we're out of this.

We had a nice little run. We made the finals. We almost made the finals the second time. This is kind of who we are, and you shop Jimmy. And then you just kind of eat it for a year. This is kind of what they've done this year, isn't it? They haven't made any moves this year. Yeah, true. Because

I think they knew. Well, there was two things. One is I think they were kind of waiting for the team to wake up and it just never did. And the playing game was alarming. That's why I think tomorrow night's going to be so fascinating with them because I actually just think Chicago is a better team.

Like even Vegas has, Miami has five and a half point favorites. And based on what? The team's 20 games under 500 covering the spread this year over and over again. We're like, oh, it's the heat. It's the heat.

It's the heat. They've shown nothing. So I do wonder, I think Butler is such an intriguing trade piece because when you're talking about all these teams that want veterans, they want to make the big push, whatever, that's the guy to get. It's a little risky.

You got to have the right culture. You got to have the right coach who's okay with them coming in. Well, you're going to have to understand that he's not going to... You're not going to love him in the regular season, but you're going to love him in the playoffs. That's the, that's the Jimmy Butler experience. And the Minnesota side,

it's just, if they wanted to play the town's card, that's about as good of a trade piece as anyone's probably going to have this summer. Because as you said, he's got the long contract and he's a unique player that you could build a really interesting team around. Well,

you, you said one name. I'm not going to say the names because then I'll get aggregated. But if you're looking at the top 10 players in the league, just think of them, whoever they are. There's a

number who we're not 100% sure are going to be happy in the next 12 to 18 months or sooner. The Heat are aware of the same situation and they know that they're uh you know a place where people like that sometimes go so i think the heat you know already have their eye on what the next incarnation is which is by the way not surprising because that's the way the heat always operate the only time they were ever caught flat-footed was when

lebron left. Other than that, they're always ahead of the game. You could go the other way and you could say they got incredibly lucky with the Jimmy Butler thing. And if that didn't happen, it would have been a really long 10 years. It's basically. Maybe,

but it did happen. No, I know. But if Philly had just played that correctly and figured out a way to just keep him versus being like, oh, all right. Okay.

Go to Miami. Like I, I still don't totally understand how it played out that way, but they pulled it off. They got it. It was also four years ago. Right. I mean,

they, they chose Tobias Harris over him. Kind of. Yes. Kind of. Um, yeah. Um,

well, I also think he chose, he knew Jimmy knew more earlier than everybody on the Ben Simmons thing. He was like, these guys don't get it. And he was tighter with Embiid, but he clearly sniffed out the Ben Simmons piece of it

and was like, really? You're going to go all in on this guy? This guy doesn't get it. And he was, I would say, kind of vindicated. All right. Most intriguing playoff storylines. Let's go. I'm gonna, I have this, I rank these,

I'm not attached to the rankings and you can talk me out of them. And as we go, if we hit one that, and I didn't tell you what these were ahead of time because I wanted your natural reaction after seven cups of coffee being up since 5.45 in the morning. I don't even drink coffee, but go ahead. Okay, whatever, Red Bull, whatever, whatever you're doing to keep you floating.

My number one storyline is not LeBron related because I don't work for ESPN. So by law, I don't have to put LeBron first because I'm not getting Disney paychecks anywhere. My number one storyline is, is this it for Golden State? What happens if they just lose in round one? What happens if they get their ass kicked in round two? This nucleus, this run they've had basically since 2013, which is now 10 years. Steph Curry is now 35, as great as he is. Draymond, I have no idea what's going to happen with him this summer. My guess is that when you're talking, we're talking about veterans and people who need stuff like that's a guy who's

going to become more and more appealing as we get closer to the summer. You start ignoring some of the, you know, some of the regression offensively, stuff like that. He still had a great defensive season. I just, they, they just feel like they're between two eras and I wonder if they get their ass kicked in the playoffs. Will that propel them to ease into the next era what do you what are you feeling about the Warriors right

now well the tipping point is Bob Myers so Bob Myers is a very loud free agent yeah and he's he's deafening yeah I mean um I mean he's got this podcast um it's like I mean he's mean, he's got this podcast. He's very clearly letting people know that he may be interested in a media career in the short-term future, but not necessarily. him that priority that Bob Myers, number one, would never have hit free agency. And number two, it never would have gotten public. But whatever, they don't have an agreement. I believe Steve Kerr has one year left on his contract. So just keep that in mind. Steve Kerr is also coaching the Team USA the next two summers, World Cup this summer, Olympics next summer. And I'm not saying he can't do both, but just keep that in mind. a lot then you have then you have draymond then you have these new rules that um the warriors didn't get a lot of relief in this deal there was it was mostly an anti-warriors anti-clippers cba not all of the details are out and from I understand, they're still haggling over the timing that some of these rules might be put

in, but there it's definitely a CBA that was targeted, you know, against the team that won the, the, the title with a $350 million payroll and has, well, could approach 400 in the very short term future.

Um, you know, all of that is a factor you know clay is extension eligible clay's looked better what do you do there um so uh yeah it's uncertain like you know like i say like somebody in the east is gonna be left holding the bag and not get out of the second round. And it's probably going to be Philly or Boston. I don't see Milwaukee, but Philly or Boston is going to be staring into the abyss.

Like what just happened. We're done in, uh, you know, by May 15th. Yeah. And if the Warriors stubbed their toe, like they stubbed it about 30 times over the regular season, they could be facing a crossroads.

Now, they still have Steph Curry, who is still awesome, and he's still under contract. They still have Klay. Wiggins is a really good piece for them. They have some young guys that are interesting. They're not going anywhere. The question is, are they going to go full bore, gas to the floor, Thelma and Louise over the financial cliff?

Because if it's not a championship team, it's a harder... A lot of the questions get a lot more difficult in that regard. Can I give you the greatest who says no I've given anybody in a while for a fake trade? Okay. That will never happen. Golden State loses to Sacramento

in six or in five. And it's just, they're in the abyss. It's like, oh my God, what are we doing? Charlotte wins the lottery. Golden State and Charlotte for some reason are at a cocktail event

or something. It's like, hey, what are you doing with those picks? Hey, what are you doing with Curry? Curry could come home to Charlotte. Well, we need the number one pick to do that. Probably some other stuff too. Who says no faster? This trade will never happen. I'm only doing it for social media so people can stare at us and get mad at it. This trade will never happen. But who says no faster? I'll throw in one more variable there,

just to support your case. Potential brand new owner of the Bobcats in the short-term future. Right, and with the little wink-winkage at Steph. Hey, wink-wink. Down the road. Matt Ushby traded four first-round draft picks within 12 hours of becoming the owner

Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez we didn't even have the team and we're trading away the whole future how fast can the new owner you know trade away

all the draft picks he does he does a whole study he does one of those rich guy studies and he's like look these big centers it's 50-50

for every Wimbinyama there's a Greg Oden who knows maybe he'll get hurt. I could bring Steph Curry home. I'm a hero. I could build a whole contender. Steph can play until he's 46 with the way he's shooting.

It's just a fun one. I was thinking about that. I think Golden State would say no faster. Yeah, of course. You could probably trade the Wimbanyama pick for 99% of the league, but he is in the 1%. I did, when I did trade value in early February, I had the rights to Wemba Nyama

as the 25th best trade asset. And now I think it's in the top 10. Now that we've actually gotten out of the season, I think whoever gets that, that's why I bring up the Steph thing. It's such a fun one because for Golden State, it'd be like, okay, thanks, Steph.

We're sending you home. You're here on Charlotte. And now we get to actually do the rebuild that we should probably rebuild. But on the flip side, you can never trade Steph Curry, which is why it's a great who says no. And that's why the aggregators

should not take this too seriously. Oh, well, now we're in trouble again. I'll get a call. Did you say on the BS report that the Warriors are going to trade Steph? I see that here on Twitter. I still call it the BS report all the time, too. What's it called?

That's just my name. The BS podcast. The Bill Simmons podcast. Did I just violate a trademark rule that was negotiated? No. Not at all. I like everyone in ESPN now. Things are great. I'm getting along with everybody these days.

With this Warriors thing though, I find it far-fetched to believe a team that got knocked out in the first round would have Draymond, Clay, and Curry next year for a combined $7 gazillion. This is probably for those three, I would

say realistically, if they're out fast, I don't think it's a three anymore. That's my personal opinion. Yeah, I think it's more the cost than anything. Also, somebody might be crazy enough

to throw Draymond a massive contract because he thinks they're going to be great for their roster. And he might be for some teams. I think that's going to happen. Or there's trade,

there's sign and trade stuff. I think somebody's going to look at him and say, that's the veteran we need. We get him, three years, 95 million, whatever it is,

and he solves a lot of you know changes scenery chip on his shoulder stuff there's a lot of reasons for it here's the other thing there's a Michigan State mafia in the NBA now

because you got you got these Michigan State guys Ishbia Gilbert and you know I don't know if Tom Gores went to Michigan State

but you know he's a Michigan guy they love nobody loves Michigan State guys more than Michigan State guys. So, like... Was that a little Ishbia Easter egg? No, no. Well, I mean, you know, he's already hired two Michigan people. One Michigan, University of Michigan Michigan and one Michigan State guy.

but like, if they hadn't have done the Durant trade and they had flexibility this summer, I would have thought for sure they would go out,

they would have gone after Draymond. But, you know, people, there's Michigan State guys who love Michigan State guys. Just put it that way.

My favorite new owner syndrome moment of all time is Ishbia not even totally having the team yet and finding out that James Jones wouldn't give up Mikael Bridges in the Durant trade. And within three hours, that decision was reversed. He's like, what are we doing? Just throwing everything. We have a chance to get Kevin Durant.

I don't care. I'm the new owner of the Suns. And that was it. And Bridges goes to Brooklyn. He's like throwing up 40-point games left and right. I mean, yeah. It's about as much as anyone's ever given up in a trade. All right, we're going to take a break.

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your first five bucks. FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. You must be 21 plus and president of select states. First online real money wager only $10 deposit required. Refund issued as non-returnable bonus bets that expire in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Hope is here. In Massachusetts, visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24-7 support. In New York, call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY. Fandle is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. In Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, or Virginia, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit Fandle.com slash RG. Call 1-800-NEXTSTEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona.

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Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday it's on Prime. Coming back just on Matt Ishbia really quickly because you and I have not talked about this on this podcast but we've texted privately about it the Matt Ishbia, Dan Gilbert rivalry slash feud

not getting enough attention, not getting enough play. We rarely have two owners that have a real history of beef. Shout out to the Netflix series Beef. You could have done a season two about these two guys. He gets voted in. Dan Gilbert abstains. Yeah. Refuses to vote. 29 nothing. He gets approved. Dan Gilbert's like, fuck that. I'm not even voting. So we have that. When was the last time we had owner animosity like this?

You know, I'm sure it's happened before because I'm sure that there's business. These guys are all moving in and out of business with each other. But I can't remember it. Doesn't mean that there isn't a history of it. The thing is, is that Ishbia and Gilbertbert i mean and i've only met matt once so i'm not trying to say that i know him well but ishbia and gilbert have a lot in common they both sort of did self-made um mortgage companies out of detroit yeah now now gilbert's a lot older but they both did it about the same time in their life and I won't get into this isn't a um Forbes podcast I won't get into the machinations of

some of the business deals that they've done but both of them at about the same age made an incredible business deal and then really really wanted to buy a team right away. And Ishbia tried to buy several teams, NFL and NBA teams, some public, some not. Dan Gilbert was like this close to buying the Milwaukee Brewers. Talk about a sliding door moment in the history of professional sports in America. And couldn't get the Brewers and instead got the Cavs. And both like almost at the exact same age,

became ultra wealthy and bought teams. And both came in. Now, in 2005, Dan Gilbert fired the coach, I believe, within nine days. And he fired the GM within six weeks. And then I think they had eight new players, seven or eight new players by the next season. New coach, new GM and like seven or eight new players.

I guess and this is faster and so in 2023 time trading away four first round draft picks in the biggest trade in franchise history, you know, six hours after you buy the team is kind of similar. And Bridges and King.

Well, I love. That's right. Of course. The other thing with the Ishby thing is he's basically on Dan Gilbert's corner with everything he's doing, right? He's basically, the company he's building is the Dan Gilbert company 2.0 version.

And they start. Some of the ways they do business. Like again, if Dan and Matt were here on this pod with us, they would probably be able to point out 500 ways that they're different. But like Gilbert had this with his mortgage company, he had this. This book of isms where, you know, you know, whatever was kind of it was a culture thing. And Ishbia is super duper into basketball. He has this thing where he forms his teams into actual teams and they have coaches

and they have huddles and everything acts like a team. It's the same concept. They're inspiring their mortgage brokers to go out and do sales. And they have a concept, a culture concept. So there's a lot going there. And so I look forward and they basically live relatively close to each other. And they've got the two biggest mortgage companies in America.

So we probably talked about too much, but it is interesting. No, you didn't even mention the attack ads. There was like local attack ads against each other. I love that story. The best owner rivalry before this, which was way more good natured, but was still a legitimate rivalry with some edge to it was Wick and Lakob. And I'm convinced and I'll be convinced to the day I die that the reason when the Katie Jalen Brown stuff started last summer and the Celtics should just publicly shut that down immediately.

There's no reason to let that fester for two seconds. You come out and... Unless they thought they could make the deal. That's why they didn't shut it down. I think Wick was the one who was the most intrigued by it because he just lost to Lake up in the finals. The Warriors were, at that time,

one of the other threats to get KD. And I do think those two franchises and those two owners definitely measure them. So Lake used to be a minority owner for the Celtics. So there there's just some history. Um, this is way better though. It's way juicier. All right. Second, most intriguing playoff storyline for me. I'm still not going with LeBron. Is this the last Tatum-Brown run? Talk about a consequential vote. I put my vote in on Monday.

You had a ballot, right? I saw you talking with Frisillo about it. Yeah, I did. I did Jalen for third team. I actually thought it was pretty fairly unassailable. Yeah, I put. I did Jalen for third team. I actually thought it was pretty fairly unassailable. Yeah, I put him on third team. I mean, I have a general rule on this. I've said this before, that if it's close, I give it to the guy with the contract bonus. Oh, interesting. um, Ty goes to the, Ty goes to the multimillionaire, you know? Um,

so, um, the, the crazy thing here is it's, this is, this is simplistic way of putting it. If Jalen gets voted all NBA, he's going to stay a Celtic.

If Jalen doesn't get voted all NBA, he's going to be a free agent next year. Because if he gets voted all NBA, he's super max eligible and he can get offered like 240 or 250 million I cannot see the Celtics not offering it and I cannot see him turning it down just can't see it now whether

he's going to be there for all five of those years how can how can the Celtics even even if you can make an argument that he's maybe not a supermax player and and you know you don't have to give all the way up to the supermax to the 30 or the 35 you can negotiate in between but i just don't see jaylen accepting anything other than the full max and if you're the celtics knowing that you can't extend him, how do you not offer it? Can I flip this the other way?

That you would trade him? Because I've heard this argument. Well, I've heard this argument that if he's all NBA, then that means he's going to be a Celtic. And it makes sense. On the other hand, you're talking about paying two Supermax guys. You're talking about paying a lot of money to a guy who's said a couple

strange things during the season that I think has made everybody kind of at least look a little sideways at the situation. Like, is he happy here? Does he like the city? Does he like the team? And I'm pretty sure under the rules, if you trade him this summer, then the new team could offer him the max extension, right? Which would be really appealing. I don't think so. That's not the rule? No. You have to be,

to get the super max, you have to be, to be clear, the super max means that when you get your seven years experience and you sign your second big contract. It has to be with the team. You're right.

It has to be with the team that you were on your rookie contract with. You can get traded while you're on your rookie contract. But like, for example, Donovan Mitchell is probably going to make all NBA this year with the Cavs. He is not super max eligible because he was traded away from the team. So no, but so it would be a year from now where they could sign them.

And then if they decided it wasn't working out great, one year from, from now. This is the problem with trading Jalen is because the issue is Jalen,

the Celtics signed him to a great contract. It's like, the average is like $25 million a year. It was too good of a contract. As it turns out. So,

the thing is any team that would trade for him has the same problem. They can't offer him enough of an extension to keep him out of free agency. They'd have to get the extension first and then trade him down the road if it led to that.

No, he's not going to extend. It's just not going to happen. So the rule is you can get a 20% raise on the last year of your contract. So if you make a dollar, you can get a dollar 20. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I'm talking if they got the super max, then it would be at least a year after that. By the way, everything I'm saying, I want them to keep these guys.

I've said that. I've been consistent on it. Well, this is what I'm saying. I think they have something special with these two. I don't want them to keep these guys. I've said that. I've been consistent on it. Well, this is what I'm saying. I think they have something special with these two. I don't want them to trade him. I don't see how, if he makes All-NBA, I don't see how they don't offer it to him. Even if they know he might not be a true Supermax player.

Right. Because, by the way, Tatum's going to qualify too. Tatum, you have to get All-NBA two out of three years. Oh, you're right. Or your last year. Yeah. So even though Tatum can't sign it this summer, Tatum getting All-NBA last year and this year, he's going to be qualified. So if they keep him and both sign the Supermaxes, I did the math on on it you're looking at roughly 110 million dollars a

year for the two of them 55 million dollar average jesus um obviously especially with the new rules where teams that are too high have limitations it's not like on the whiteboard it's like holy moses so but the thing about it is let's say, well, we don't want to pay them both 100. We don't want to pay them both 55 million a year. We don't think that's worth it. We're going to trade

Jalen Brown. Like, let's say you come to that consensus. The team that trades for him inherits the same problem. They can't extend it. Yeah.

Because he could only sign for it. So, so the rules are about to change. It used to be you could sign for 20%. And in the new rules, because of people like Jalen Brown,

they said, okay, we're going to kick it to 40%. So now if you make a dollar and you want to stay with your team, you can get $1.40. But the problem is, is that that contract is so good that even at 40%, even if he had a 40% raise,

it's still probably not going to be his market value contract. So let's say you find a beautiful trade with Team X for Jalen Brown because you don't want to pay him. Team X can't offer a trade like they know they're going to keep him. And then he's unhappy that he didn't get the max. Yeah. Or even if he, even if he gets to that place and he's like, Oh my God, I've dreamed every day of my life to be in city X. And I,

I love playing with player. Why Houston should absolutely not sign it. It's, it's just, it's a gap in the rule and it's still going to be a gap. It looks like even in the new CBA, I wish, I mean,

as usual, they didn't consult with us on the new CBA. They didn't ask for it. I don't want that. Those guys are, it's a miserable job. It's a miserable job. The only thing I wish they had put in there is I think a team should be rewarded

for drafting and keeping somebody. Like the Warriors having Curry for 14 plus years at this point and him being as good as he is and if he's making as much money as he's making, maybe he should count 75% against the cap instead of 100 or 75% against your luxury tax

instead of 100, stuff like that. Did Joe Lacob slip you some sort of bonus? No, I think this all turned the same thing with Tatum and Brown. I think it should matter if somebody stays on the same team, especially in this era where we've turned into AAU.

And if a franchise and a star have something special, then they, it should be advantageous in some way is my only point. Aren't you

a coastal elite thinking that way? No. Well, Giannis is in the same spot with Milwaukee. If you're going to have your $400 million payroll,

you have to pay the luxury taxes. I don't care if you drafted them that was like that was like the thing like um the warriors whole thing was well you know it's not fair to the luxury tax is not fair because we shouldn't be penalized for just being great drafters and great developers. And I'm like, totally right, dudes. Completely agree. It would not be fair for you to draft Steph Curry and Draymond and Clay and not keep them. But what about Wiggins? Because it's Wiggins that was a difference maker

in the finals last year. It's Wiggins who is the remnant of the Durant contract because it was Durant and they flipped it to Russell and they flipped it's Wiggins who is the remnant of the Durant contract because it was Durant and they flipped it to Russell and they flipped it to Wiggins. That's the last vestige of the 2016 cap spike. If I wanted to write like a real high-minded essay that 195 people would read and then talk about on Reddit, I would write Andrew Wiggins colon, the last vestige of the 2016 cap spike. I'd write this big think piece, but it's true. Andrew Wiggins is the, you know, contractual grandson of Kevin Durant. Right. That is so, so I'm just saying like to

the Warriors, cool dudes. I don't care if you spend $900 million on Steph Curry, but you got to give up Wiggins. They wouldn't have won the title last year. So while they say that it's all about keeping the players that you did, they really don't mean that. They really want to have the cake and eat it too. I don't honestly care, but it's my job to call it out. What about Boston with Tatum and Brown?

What about Milwaukee with Giannis? What about where Cleveland's going to be with Evan Mobley in 10 years? Assuming that they try to turn him into their Tim Duncan. I do feel like it should be a tiny bit of an advantage at some point. Because I would rather see guys stay on teams than move around. There's more small markets than there are big markets and they get voting power in how they put this together and so our long struggle to to to fight player desires which is to live in the big cities on the coasts and in the south with the the numbers in the mid-markets

goes on. And it will go on longer after you and I are gone. It'll still be going on. Where are we going? I plan on doing this for 30 more years.

Come on, Windhorse. I don't know. I mean, you know. I want... Someday, somebody at ESPN will push me right out the door. That's how it goes there. I don't know if you ever heard.

My goal is for Orlando to be... finally ascend to the status of a destination. Cause last time I checked, they were also in Florida, like Miami. And last time I checked, they have good young players. Remember in the 90s, early 2000s, Orlando was the place to be. And then somebody got an Atlas and saw Miami. Like, okay, I've told this story before, but I don't think I've told it on your pod. Like one of my favorite stories I heard in NBA is Tracy McGrady told it to me about when he was a free agent. And, you know, he is, you know, he goes down to Miami for his recruiting visit and Riley picks him up, drives him to Alonzo Morning's house, which is on Biscayne Bay. And Riley disappears.

See you later, guys. He chills with Morning for however long. And all of a sudden, off Morning's deck or dock comes this awesome speedboat. Morning's like, let's go. I'm making up some of this, but this is a general story. Yeah. They get into the speedboat and they tear off across Biscayne Bay by American Airlines arena across Miami wind in their face,

ocean Bay nightlife sky, palm trees pulled into Pat Riley's house, which is also on the dock. He used to call it Casa Riley. Yeah. Riley's holding the max contract. Here you go, Tracy, $100 million. Tracy said no to sign in Orlando.

Ugh. Because Orlando at one time was the real place to be. I don't know if it can be again, but I know he was from that area. I know it's not apples to apples, but I just want to, I just look for an excuse to tell that story. A, great story. B, there was a Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady,

Tim Duncan possibility for like two minutes. That was really exciting early days of the internet. I'm going to move to number, I guess this will be my new number two because we kind of shot down the original number two because Jalen Brown, he's going to get all NBA, which probably removes any of that intrigue from the table. The new number three, Jokic,

if they don't do well in the playoffs this year, I think officially starts edging toward being his generation's version of, I wrote down Steve Nash. I wrote down James Harden. I wrote down James Harden. I wrote down George Girvin. I wrote down Dominique Wilkins. Now he's probably more impactful than all of those guys. He's only 27 years old. The last five, six years he's put together. I think we were talking on the pod the other day about how Luka went 38 and 44. And it's like, how many guys in the league

are just a guaranteed 46 wins? I think Jokic is a guaranteed 46 wins. We saw it last year. He's playing with a G League team and they won 46 games. And yet, he still needs to, he still needs to make a run here

and it's all set up. They have home court. They have a really good team. They have a real home court advantage because of the altitude. Oh yeah. Especially when we get to round three. It's all on a platter here.

If it doesn't happen this year, next year's chances aren't going to be as good. Then you start moving into that category that you don't want to be in. Those guys were great players. Honestly, not Nash's fault. He never made the finals, but he never made the finals.

To me, I'm watching that just as somebody who loves basketball, who loves Jokic. I love watching him. But at some point, it's got to happen in the playoffs. You got to put together some rounds. Again, I talked earlier about the Celtics going into the tax. The Cronkies went into tax for the, I think, second or third time ever in the first time in like 11 or 12 years. They just don't do it. And they don't stay there very long. They went into the tax because they thought this was a championship team. They have the best team they've ever had. This is the first time they've ever been a number one seed in their history. Maybe they were the number one seed in the ABA. I don't know, but they've never been the number one seed in the NBA. And is that organization built to continue to spend money at that level

for that team. And look, they've signed all those guys up. They extended, um, they extended, uh, Contavious Caldwell Pope as soon as they got him. Yeah. So like Porter signed up,

they went to the wall for that one. It was questionable decision, but they went to the wall, extended Aaron Gordon, you know, not to mention what they're paying. Yoke, it's in Murray.

So, you know, yeah. And like I voted Michael. Michael Malone was on my All-NBA All-Coach of the Year ballot. Was he the three spot? I had him two. I had Bud three because I couldn't break the ties and I just took the two one seats.

Interesting. I mean, it was more than just that. I mean, I had reasons for it. But like if they don't do well, he may face some scrutiny because he's holding the fullest deck they've ever had there. And I will say this, Jokic is not going to win the MVP

probably. Whether or not that's fair or not depends on who you talk to. But him not winning the MVP might not be the worst thing for him because he's already going to deal with a fallout of potentially, if he doesn't get to the finals, doing it as a two-time MVP. What if it was a three-time MVP?

What if the third straight time they shipped that Shofi over to Serbia and he didn't do it in Denver because he was already out of the playoffs? He didn't take shit for it last year because the team was so flimsy. This year's team is good. And there would have been a giant bullseye on him. I'm not sure he cares. They're 12-11 since the All-Star break. Right.

I know they tanked some games. They're not tanked, but they just jettisoned some games at the end. But they're still 12-11. The West was pretty much locked up for them. And it seemed like they took their foot off the pedal. And I get it. But this lined up perfectly. They don't have to play the Lakers in round one.

They're going to play whoever wins this 8-9 game. They can let, hopefully, Phoenix and the Suns kick the shit out of each other. And hopefully that's a long series. And then they can get the remnants of that. But yeah, this Jokic thing, he has the potential to become this generation's kind of semi-tragic

figure of the great player who just never found the right team. He wants to be there, though. Yeah, he does. He signed a Supermax extension. There was 0.0 drama and 0.0 attention. The Nuggets made two trips to Serbia

last year, once to bring him as MVP and once to bring him as Supermax. And, you know, Yana signed the Supermax and we practically broke into SportsCenter and they hadn't even won anything yet. Right, true. All right, let's take a break and then we'll rip through the rest of these.

Today's episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's no instruction manual when it comes to life or any of the other stressful tasks adulthood throws your way. So many of us lay awake at night going through a list of what ifs. What if our home floods? What if I get into an accident?

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The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember for a quote today. Now it's time for LeBron. We don't have to do the Ken LeBron make one last finals Because everybody's going to be talking about that constantly. I do feel like you can make a case

that this will be his best chance to make a finals because of just the situation the West is in. And the next time... He knows that. That's why he's playing on this ridiculous foot. Right. Yes. Next time we see him in this situation, it will probably be in more of a ring chasing capacity, I would guess. So I'll flip it around a little bit. We talked about this the other night on this pod, but I had to get your take. We are two weeks away from Curry versus LeBron round two. It's a real thing that could happen.

It would be one of the biggest round two series in the history of the league. It's the biggest playoff matchup I think the league can have from a casual fan interest standpoint. Do you think LeBron considers Curry a rival? His feelings towards Curry have gone in and out um actually when you when you're around long enough this happens um like you remember like those just you know it he looked at curry with disgust

at times and also there was this time where it looked like you know he may come for him as the most popular player you know it was like oh may come for him as the most popular player. It was like, oh my God, can Under Armour eat into Nike's market share? Well, as it turns out, Curry is great, but Under Armour isn't eating into Nike's market share. And nobody is questioning. The people are not putting LeBron and Curry on the same level. At least I don't think it's not really happening. So now all of a sudden he's posing with him at weddings and they're all holding up the four okay we all got four titles isn't it great hey steph where did you get the first three of those who are those against i don't even

remember but congrats on your last one you know like if you had showed lebron you know like i'm not saying like in the locker room in the losing locker room in 2017. But even in 2019, if you had showed LeBron a photo of him posing with Curry and the other Warriors holding up four, like, we're the Four Rings Club. I don't think he would have said that. Inconceivable. I do think, yeah. So some of this, it depends on when you ask. There was a time where he sure as hell thought it was his arrival,

and not just on the court, but in for marketing dollars for, you know, for shoe market share, you know, for all that stuff. But I think that's cooled down for the time. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to beat his ass, but it's cooled down. There were some love bouquets thrown around like about a year ago that made me wonder if he was potentially planning the possible seeds to jump over the words at some point, LeBron. I thought it was the inverse. There was some, there was just, and it's laughable to talk about now. And I'm sure like the Warriors laughed about it then,

but there was a single digit percentage chance that the Warriors were not going to offer Curry the full max on the last contract. You know, the one that put him in the super stratosphere. And by the way, they did in five seconds when it came to it. And the Lakers were going to have cap space. And so I thought he was seating the ground

just a little bit in case the Warriors messed around. But, you know, he recovered from his injuries and was awesome. And the Warriors didn't mess around. LeBron's son is going to go to USC. LeBron will be on the Lakers next year. And after that season,

I think he goes into full ring chase mode and tries to figure out how can I stay in the finals picture. I think he goes into Bronny chase mode. Yeah, but that's assuming Bronny comes into the league after a year, which I just don't think is realistic. Well, the question is,

it may not be the best thing for him, but is it going to be? That's the way it's going to be. Great question. I'm not touching it. Me either. Next intriguing question I got for you. This is a great one. This should have gone higher.

I'm already criticizing my own list. What's a bigger fork in the road team for you? The Clippers or the Sixers? So you can't pay Harden five years because he runs into the over 38 rule. But just the fact that I'm bringing that up should tell you all you need to know about that, about whether you should do it.

If you're the Sixers, are you paying James Harden $200 million? I mean, no. He didn't even stay healthy for four months. He already looks banged up now. He was playing great. I was going to put him on all NBA, but he's already hurt. He gave kind of a very concerning interview when he came back and was like, yeah, my Achilles, I could barely walk on it. I was like, oh, I don't like hearing those words. He's way slower. It's a fact.

So, what does that mean for Philly? Does that mean you're doing a sign-in trade with Houston? Does that mean you're calling Dame Lillard? Or, you know, you can't call Dame Lillard, you know, that would be tampering. That's illegal. What does it mean it feels

like you can't pay him and it feels like you get Houston has 60 million dollars in cap space who are they spending it on right well and the Dame thing you know Maxie is a really good lead piece for a Dame trade, but I never understand what these draft picks, you know, what, what the Suns gave up with Bridges

for Durant blew my mind. After that, I was like, I don't even know what the concept, I mean, the Gobert trade we talked about it. Just, I have no concept of what somebody's worth. Like, what is Dame Lillard worth in a trade? You could tell me it's seven picks. You could tell me it's Maxine, too. I have no idea. Well, that's why I think Dame could be doing the Blazers the greatest gift ever by asking for the trade now.

Because I don't see how Portland is going to compete. First off, there's not going to be a player, I don't think, that says, send me to Portland to star. Maybe I'd be proven wrong. Secondly, they have this encumbered pick that they owe Chicago, so they can't make, like, unless they make a side deal with Chicago, which Chicago would hold them hostage for probably, they can't offer, like, four picks for the next Durant.

They can offer, like, if they win the lottery this year, they could offer that, but they don't have the package. So considering where the prices are right now, plus there's a whole bunch of teams that are like, I got to have a veteran. I got to have a veteran. There's like, you know, Houston comes out and is like, you know, we got to have one. Portland's like, we got to have one.

Dallas is like, we got to have one. New York is lurking there. Miami is lurking there. If sometimes the greatest thing you can do is to say goodbye. And with Dane coming off this season where he was so awesome and is still only 32,

like, every day that goes by, it's harder to get value for Dane because his contract is so big. So my impression is that that wasn't what they were going to do. My impression was that, you know, they were going to do. My impression was that they're going to try to go get a star player now. But I'm like, who's the star player? Are you going to give up this year's lottery pick and the one future pick you can trade and Shaden Sharp for

OG Ananobi? Does that trade change your situation? Or does doing a Durant-Gobert-Mitchell-style trade for Donovan, I mean, for Damien, is that the better trade? You know, sending him away. Well, you'd be happy to know. You are with the Picasso, the trade machine, and I do have the trade for you if you're interested. Okay, let's hear it. I will say, just from a Portland standpoint,

I love that we're talking about this. You can't decide anything until the lottery. Absolutely, that goes without saying. If you win the lottery, but if they win the lottery, like, Dame should stay. You actually won't have a good chance. I'm sorry you said that because it can be used against me. No, all of this stuff

is for May 17th. You're deciding on May 18th. Yeah. I think Atlanta is a really intriguing game spot because Trey, that's a real centerpiece to get back. And there's a lot of cases you could make

with Trey if you're acquiring him that, hey, the guy's young. He's only been in the league five years. He's gonna figure out some shit. He's incredibly talented. He made the Eastern in the league five years. He's going to figure out some shit. He's incredibly talented. He made the Eastern Finals. Box office. Yeah.

And that's somebody our fans can latch onto. And then if you're Elena, you get out of the Trey business. You give up whatever else you have to give up to get Dame. And you put him with Murray, which is a really fun combo. And you have money and you have players and you have moves and, you know, that one makes more sense to me. They don't have some picks, though.

Yeah, well, they have a little bit, but not the grand tour. But they lost some to Murray. But Trace would be pretty valuable. Conversations like this are why you're worth $100 million. Or whatever you are. Because that's really good. That's good. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. Okay.

Quickly. Oh. We didn't do this one yet. I guess it's along the same thing as Trey Young auditioning to stay in Atlanta this round against the Celtics. What if they just get their asses kicked? That sets off

a whole slew of Atlanta. What do they do? Blow it up. If Boston sweeps Atlanta, it's on. Atlanta is underachieving for their talent that they have. Can I say I was pretty surprised that they got Quinn Snyder to take that job?

Me too. Talk about not winning and making a decision before the lottery. I mean, again, not that Quinn was looking to coach Wim Benyama, but just to see what the fallout would be. And they gave him a lot of money, but they didn't give him

insane don't say no money, and he also didn't get, to my knowledge, he didn't, you know, he didn't get like full control. Yeah. He didn't get the Tibbs, the Tibbs control package. And I don't, I didn't feel like it was like a godfather offer either. I would have waited. I didn't understand it at all because it feels like between wherever Wembanyama lands and then who else knows what shakes out? Like what Nick Nurse gets fired? What if you mentioned Mike Malone before? I agree.

I think he did a good job this year, but what if they lose in five in round two and they're like, shit, what do we do? I just sort of waited. He must have really liked their talent. What if Steve Kerr decides I'm going to take a couple years off? I'm going to coach the national team.

All right. This is the second time you've mentioned that. I'm not for aggregation. I'm just saying. Now there's smoke coming off the statements. No. No, no, no. No, I'm with you. There's 20 jobs that could be available at any given time.

I just, I'm with you. I didn't love the Hawks job because the trade thing, which is funny because we're saying Portland should trade for them. It doesn't sound like Pop is going to retire. All indications are Pop's coming back. Talk about before the lottery. what if the San Antonio job comes up? We only have four minutes left.

I have to throw this one at you. Giannis doesn't get enough credit for being one of the most intriguing playoff storylines for this standpoint. If they win again, which they're the favorites and they would be the team I bet my life on,

you've officially cemented the I am the best player since LeBron case, which might be the case anyway. But now you're talking about a five-year run with... Usurping Durant and Curry? Is that what you're saying? Best player since the... Let's say LeBron, it goes to 2018, right?

That whole when he takes the Cavs to the finals. Generation Y or something, yeah. This last half decade, these five years, he would have two MVPs. I would assume two finals MVPs, five top three MVP finishes. And just year to year,

eye test wise, is always in the mix or was either the best player or he's in the debate for the best player. And now you're talking about a half decade kind of residing at that level, which I think is important because how many guys have gotten there

in the history of the league? Now you're talking like 12, 13 guys total kind of swim in those waters. Listen, you're talking to an unabashed Giannis believer from early in his career and I voted for him for MVP this year. And I say that as a guy who voted for Embiid last year. Because when you watch him play,

and you watch him do what he does at both ends, how do you not say he's the most valuable player? I wanted to do it so badly. And the 63 games... I mean, they're all good options. I'm not criticizing. I'm just telling you. You're talking to a guy who voted for Yance.

Well, you're talking to a guy who still has nightmares about him in that Boston series last year. You got lucky. We last year. You got lucky. We got lucky. Tatum did it when he did, man, because he is out of gas in game seven. Last thing before we go.

Now we have one minute. I didn't put the rant here in most intriguing because I don't... I almost feel like that team still has the new car smell, and if it doesn't go well for them and they don't make the finals, I don't feel like it's the end of the world. Because I think you leave and you go,

well, we just all got together. Kevin got hurt. And, you know, next year. Yeah, he and Kyrie traded the same week, but they were not in the same situation. Yeah. So in a weird way, even though they should have the most pressure,

and especially with Chris's situation, God only knows how many years he has left. And KD has never, he still has, oh, you want to, but you had Curry. And yet I don't feel like they have a shitload of pressure. It does feel a little house money-ish because the longer they go on, I'd be like, whoa, this is amazing. These guys have barely played together. Whereas a team like Denver or Milwaukee, there's some real pressure on those teams. I agree. I think they're not even in the top five of your ranking pressure.

The other thing is I never from day one understood why. I mean, I listened to the explanation, but I never could reconcile his decision to play with Kyrie in Brooklyn. I just always thought it was a bad choice. The day I learned of it months

before it actually happened we all knew it was happening I can't tell you how much better I believe the fit with Booker is it's just and I've spent a lot of time around the Suns it is just like they may not win they may not win for 10 different reasons it may be injuries it may be because they've

overpaid for Durant maybe because the new CBA hits them particularly hard in terms of team building with where their salaries are going to be. There could be a dozen different reasons they don't win, but that pairing at least makes sense to me. Their, their personalities match their games, match their,

their timelines match. Booker can, can carry the big load at times. Durant wants to have a player like that. That, to me, And they're malleable. They're malleable guys. They kind of fit into

whatever the situation is. So I think it's a three or four year run. I agree. I only have five teams that I think can win the title. Suns, Nuggets, Warriors, Bucks, Celtics. And I would have had the Sixers in there,

but I don't I don't think Harden's healthy and I'm not I'm not putting him in that circle if he's not 100% and he's not and you got to ask

Joel to stay healthy for four rounds which he's just not been able to do maybe he will I'm not saying he can't but it's a you're putting more of a burden

on Joel in that case alright go do your next five shows Windhorse. Thank you, Bill. It was a pleasure. I'm always happy to see you.

I hope to see you in LA soon. Are you coming to these playoff games? Of course, I'm going to come to at least a few of them. We got two LA teams. Same time. Great to see you. It's been a while since we've had so much playoff games in LA. All right.

Thank you, Bill. Be well. See you. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Be well. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up?

Really? Really, really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend that powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days and the ability to reach further with access to over 1400 airport lounges worldwide redefine possible with business platinum that's the

powerful backing of american express terms and conditions. Visit amex.ca slash businessplatinum. All right, taping this early Thursday afternoon. The Red Sox just got their asses kicked again, but my dad's in a great mood. Incredible Bruins season. Second best team in the league for the Celtics. Patriots draft coming up. This is his time.

I will say, Dad, I've never heard you talk more regular season Bruins in the last, maybe this century, than this team. I feel like you watched most of the season. You were really in on this season. I was really in in 2011. I was really in, I think it was 18 or 19 when St. Louis knocked them out.

But I'm more in with this team because I like their style of play. I mean, we've gone with this new coach from being a defensive-oriented, we'll score a goal if we can and we'll win 2-1, to really opening up the offense with the defensemen coming into the offensive zone. And it's a lot of fun to watch. It's been really good. I've enjoyed it a lot. So when are you, when are your all time favorite Bruins teams? I would say so, you know, just to go back to your opening comment,

you know, from living here, the best two months of the year are April 15th to June 15th. There's nothing like it in Boston and nothing like it anywhere. I mean, all the sports teams converge. It's 86 degrees and sunny as I'm looking out the window right now. So the weather has finally turned. We have, as you mentioned, the Bruins and the Celtics with championship aspirations. I love the NFL draft coming up, even though there's so much turmoil in the Patriot organization right now that you're reading about.

And the Revolution are winning. Oh, stop it. Now you're losing it. The Revolution. Come on. I was watching that Red Sox game. It's so sad what's happening. So sad.

They had the best start to finish team of all time in the history of the franchise in 2018. And then it was like watching when somebody starts getting plastic surgery and they disfigure their face. We're at the disfigured face part of this Red Sox journey. It's awful. They had Dahl back batting fifth today.

I didn't even know he was in the league anymore. I thought that was it. I thought we sent him to Japan. He's back. It's worse than that. Last night they had him playing shortstop and he made an error in the first inning that really cost him the game.

He's playing shortstop. He's about eight feet tall. Well, we had a shortstop. He's playing eight feet tall. Well, we had a shortstop. He's playing in San Diego. And then we had another shortstop who blew out his elbow with an injury that everybody knew about before they signed him. So it's been great.

That shortstop in San Diego is having a Hall of Fame start to the year. And I look at the box scores because the guy is great. I mean, he was such a role model on Boston and such a four year stretch of terrible decision-making by this ownership and chime bloom. I hope he's on his way out soon,

but a terrible job. So it's been a top. We always have two teams go in this with the boston sports scene when i was living there in the late 90s and it was loserville and it was like so bleak and then since then a bunch of good stuff happened now the celtics and the bruins are the leaders who i always like to ask you this because you have a feel and you have dumb conversations as you're walking your dog all around downtown Boston, hoping people will talk sports to you. Which they do. Which they do. They're like, hey, that guy.

Who's number one right now? Is it Tatum? Is it Bergeron? Is it Pasta? Who's the number one guy in Boston right now? That's a really good question. That's a really good question. I'd say Bergeron. Just because of his charisma, he's captain of the team. It may be his last year if they win the Cup. He has no baggage at all, not that Tatum has any baggage, but he's been here so long and he's never played for any other team.

And I think if I had to compare which of the two teams maybe has a slightly better chance of winning at all, I'd probably say the Bruins. Yeah, because there's no Giannis slash Milwaukee Bucks standing in the way of the Bruins. No, there's no super team this year in the NHL. You see a lot of Bergeron jerseys walking around Boston right now. I'd say more than Tatum jerseys. I haven't taken a poll, obviously, but it just looks that way right now.

Yeah, because he put in the time much like Ortiz where it's just years and years and years of being with somebody then the 2011 DNA to the cup team and then on top of it like

you know one of the classiest Boston dudes you know going like an all-, like just beloved, great guy. Never heard a bad thing about him ever. Just love being here. And then on top of that, it started his career where he had the concussion and it seemed like,

you know, he might not even get there. Yeah. Right. I mean, we, we had that experience years ago with Norm Leveley and just wondered about Bergeron, but he's beloved in Boston. And he just wondered about Bergeron.

But he's beloved in Boston. And the fact that he came back, almost retired, came back, and has like 26, 27 goals. He's been tremendous. The other night, I think he won like 18 of 21 face-offs. I hope he doesn't retire. But if they win the Cup, it might be the great way to go out and retire

if they win the Cup. Yeah, the team's had the look. I don't talk a lot of hockey on the podcast, but I have been, I don't usually like regular season hockey because then it gets

to the playoffs and it's like the regular season doesn't matter. But it's been a really fun team to watch. Like they had this streak. They have all these little like celebrations, little things at the end of the games,

like the goal is to do their thing at the end. And it's just, the team's had a certain feel to it all year. And then pasta has to be the, the best offensive player we've had probably since Neely in the early nineties. Right. Yeah.

I mean, he scored 60 goals. That's not a long list of dudes, the 60-goal scorer list. No. Obviously, McDavid has, I think, a few more goals than he has. In this era, it's really difficult to score 50 goals.

He's the kind of guy we've never had ever. No. I would say there's something very similar, though, about the two teams, the Celtics and the Bruins. The camaraderie between the teammates on those two teams,

it seems to be terrific. The locker rooms, they say both locker rooms are really outstanding in terms of the support players give each other. I'm not sure the Celtics have a leader like Bergeron. I mean, Bergeron's the real leader. You can see it when the game ends. You know, he waits for every play to come off the ice.

I like how he does that. He's always the last guy off the ice. Yeah. Now he does have, as you said, he has the 2011 cup, you know, and we don't have a player on this team that has a championship. If we were to win, maybe tape Tatum takes a different leap in terms of leadership.

I'm not sure who the leader is in that locker room. I think it's a lot of collaborative leadership. Probably. Horford's definitely, I think it's a lot of collaborative leadership, probably. Horford's definitely, I think, a big brother. I don't know if he's the traditional awesome leader, but I do think everybody leans on him. Yeah, I think you're right. I think if you had to name one person, some of the players identify him. They'll make little comments about Al. I talked to Al Al and Al helped me

get through this little patch, etc. Especially like Robert Williams talks about Orford all the time. Well, it's funny with the Bruins, the guy that's looming in the back of everything is McDavid, if he gets there, who's just the single most terrifying hockey player

I think since Lemieux that I've watched. I mean, he had it when he was, I remember seeing him when we, the last year we had King's tickets, seeing him in person and had just never seen anybody skate like him before. It was like watching the old Bobby Orr clips from like the, you know, the late 60s.

When we played them in the last month, he had a speed level that I haven't seen any other player have. He just flew by people. But, you know... Almost to the point that it seems like he's going to get hurt and just go flying into the boards.

He's going so fast. You're like, how is this guy going this fast? He's a pretty big dude. I don't think we're going to see them because I don't think they have the defense to get to the finals. But I think they're going to be a tough matchup.

The West is more fun because it's got... There's the four best teams in the league. Three of them are in the West. Right? And then there's this whole Vegas, Edmonton, LA, all the West teams that are all pretty

good. There's a quick thing. I was rooting for Quick with Vegas to have a little revenge against the Kings because I was pissed that they sold him down the river, but I don't know if he's going to be a factor. Just in general, I think the playoffs, Toronto's in there. There's some

signature teams and players, and it's going to be fun. Then the NBA side, and we talk going to be fun. I think this, and then the NBA side, and we talk about this all the time, like just how topsy-turvy the NBA is and how other than Milwaukee, there's no team anybody feels great about. I mean, thank God our texts aren't public, the texts that we have during the Celtics season, but I can't say this has been an even-keeled Celtics season, even though the record ended up being 57 and 25, it's been pretty topsy turvy.

And that's probably one of the things for me about comparing the Bruins season and the Celtics season. Although obviously I'm a Celtics season ticket holder, not a Bruins season ticket holder, but it's been a schizophrenic year. I can't decide. I don't like their style of play many nights. I mean, it's the Celtics. If the ball is moving and three or four people touch it, that's great.

But too often they come down the court and you have Tatum taking the 20 seconds left on the clock, the three-pointer from beyond the three-point. I just don't like that kind of offense. I like it when they move it around. The last two weeks they've played better. And, of course, you and I have the same concerns about the rookie coach. I thought this was when we were going to talk about Rob Williams. Well, I'll go to him next. But the rookie coach has been overmatched in certain games against certain other coaches.

And it remains to be seen how he stands up in the playoffs. And then the wild card. And the article today in the paper about the coach challenging Robert Williams to score more and stay healthy. Well, every time he goes down the court and blocks a shot and comes down on his feet, you think he's going to fall to the ground. He just has the last 16 winning games, I guess. But I don't know. That's a wild card. I think three times this year you've texted me from the game saying,

Rob just went to the locker room. Yeah. Well, because I'm sitting there and I do watch him. And I can tell when he comes down the wrong way because he kind of grimaces and he shakes his leg a little bit. And the next thing you know, he's walking down the tunnel. We don't see him again for like two weeks. We can't afford that to happen in the next two months.

He has to be out there. And he's going to be important against Atlanta. I know neither one of us is afraid of Atlanta, but they rebound, and we need Rob to be out there at least rebounding and cutting off their centers from the boards. Yeah, he's this rare combination of he's brittle, I guess, would be the way to say it, but he's also reckless. For somebody who gets hurt all the time,

he's also one of the only guys in the league who will just go flying into seven guys for a rebound and try to dunk over three people or try to block some crazy shot from some angle where he's going to land where the camera guys are. And it's just like, dude, fucking bring it back. Well, every time they throw the alley-oop to him, I have this image of Gordon Hayward

and I'm thinking to myself, please don't throw the alley-oop. People get hurt on the alley-oop. Whoa, KG in 2009. That was... Exactly. It cost us the championship. Yeah, if I had to rank my concerns with this team,

Rob's number one by far because they're a completely different team when he's healthy. It's like there's the Celtics with Rob, and then there's the Celtics without Rob. And the Celtics without Rob can still be really good, but Rob gives them the extra special. The Celtics without Rob can be really good only if the three-point shot is going in. Right. Right. And if Joe Maz has a feel for what the...

Our biggest complaint with them all year was A, the Derek White thing, which finally became a local story a month after we were talking about it. Why does this guy play crunch time? He's the third best guy on the team. What are we doing? And now it seems like he's playing more. But just in general, like, this is such a fun roster to coach because you can go small, you can go big, you can do all these different

things. And sometimes it almost feels like he forgets that. Like, he has certain matchups where it'd be like, just like against the Knicks, just go small. Put all your guards out there against Philly. Just spread them out. Spread Embiid out. Put all our guards out there and make Philly have to play defense and run and push the

ball on them. And sometimes he gets it. Sometimes he doesn't. Yeah, I agree. And for me, it's just lack of experience. In two years, he'll probably know better. He'll probably, his substitution patterns will be much better. But right now, you're right about Derek White. He has this loyalty to Marcus Smart, I think, and leaves him out there too long or leaves him out there in games where Smart just doesn't have it.

And maybe Smart is still hurt with the ankle because he certainly hasn't been the same player this year, particularly on defense. He mentioned the ankle finally a few weeks ago. It doesn't look like... I voted for him for Defensive Player of the Year last year

and I thought he was. I thought he was the most important player because of the flexibility he had. It was a lot of the same reasons I voted for Mo for defensive player of the year last year. And I thought he was, I thought he was the most important player because of the flexibility he had. It was a lot of the same reasons I voted for Moby this year, his ability to basically be the Swiss army knife of whoever you need him to guard. He can guard the way you can just create any lineup around his defense. This year it's the opposite. And white has been the guy who's been like the dominant defensive guard.

I voted for white second team all defense. I thought he was absolutely spectacular on that end. And some of his blindside blocks and his rim protection stuff is really, really unusual. I thought he had a great year. It's kind of ironic we're talking about him because a year ago in the playoffs, we didn't have these feelings about Derek White. Well, wait a second. No, I could be sitting next to you during round three and he could get the Derek White face going and shoot one for 10 and we'll be like, take him out.

Like I don't 100% trust him yet. I'm still a little scarred from last year. Well, no, I think, I think now he understands the team offense. He's had the whole training camp. He's a different player. His confidence level is so different. But, you know, just to bring closure on Marcus Smart, and I guess it is the ankle, he has no lateral movement like he had last year in defense. So we see all these point guards just going flying right by him.

And that's where Robert Williams becomes important because he can be backing up smart, but smart didn't need that last year. It's going to be fascinating. And of course, there's a lot of stuff in the paper about in a crunch, which guards are going to be playing in the last three minutes of the game because they have three really good guards. They have, I mean, nba.com, the game because they have three really good guards. They have, I mean, NBA.com, the stats that they have now,

which I know you don't look at, but they have all the five-man lineups, four-man lineups, three-man lineups, two-man lineups. And you can really, after 82 games, you can really have a feel for what matchups, lineups are successful, right? And so even if you look at like the two-man lineups,

just guys playing with other guys, what are the best combos? White's in like half of them. The only one that smarts in out of like the top 20 most successful net rating lineups is the one with Derek White. Other than that, he's not in any of the top like 20 combos

other than with Blake Griffin, who we barely played with. But, but it, it, sometimes the numbers back up what you see in the eye test for me is like, he's not one of the best seven guys on the team right now. And I don't,

I think that puts the coach in a weird spot because the, you gotta be loyal to your guys. Smart was the third best guy on the team last year. Unquestionably. He was a big part of why they made the finals and you're kind of waiting for that loyal to your guys. Smart was the third best guy on the team last year, unquestionably. He was a big part of why they made the finals. And you're kind of waiting for that guy to come back, but I'm not sure he's that guy, whether he's injured or whatever.

And I do think they're going to have some tough decisions, especially next round when you have, you know, you have Philly with Maxie and Harden, assuming Harden's healthy. They, the way he matches the guards up against those guys are going to be really important because you want to run on Philly you want to push the ball on them and then on the other end you want to be able to defend

stay in front of Maxie. I don't think Smart's going to be able to stay in front of Maxie so that's going to be one Rob Williams is the other piece what are we getting out of him? Where do you stand on Grant Williams these days? I think he's had an awful year. For somebody who turned down a contract extension, it's almost like he's trying to

be the player that he really isn't. He's driving to the basket, losing the ball. He's not blocking out. They say that his elbow is sore. He's a right-handed shot, as you know. They say that his elbow is sore. He's a right-handed shot, as you know. They say his right elbow is sore. His three-point shots are coming up short from the corner,

and he was automatic there last year. So they're not playing him as much as you can see. I think it's interesting when they go – Brogdon is taking some of his minutes. Even, you know, they have other guys that they're using more. They're using Hauser off the bench, taking some of Grant Williams' minutes, which I like. The only matchup that I really like Grant Williams in is against the Greek freak.

I think he does body him and take him off his spot a little bit. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's the value his spot a little bit. Yeah, unfortunately, that's the value of having him this season. Yeah. Is that Milwaukee series, which for whatever reason, he has a shitload of confidence against Giannis. And, you know,

they do a good job of building that little wall on him. And Giannis hasn't shot the ball this, that well. He has a little confidence against Embiid too. I mean, you'll see him matching up against Embiid as long as Embiid doesn't go into the basket. Because Grant Williams is shorter than people think he is. When you see him in person, like standing next to the other players,

he's shorter than everybody was in terms of power forward. Yeah, one of the lineups they've played a lot this year was Horford, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Grant Williams, which last year was one of their money lineups. And this year, the net rating on that lineup is plus one, which is one of the worst lineups they can play. And that was a lineup that was money for them last year. The Horford, Smart, Brown, Tatum, White lineup,

which is probably their crunch time lineup, that lineup's plus 12. And that's with how Smart's playing. But we both have been so impressed by Brogdon. Brogdon's been such a revelation. I voted for him for sixth man of the year, and some of my New York fans were like,

typical Homer pick. I'm like, I don't know, man. I watch a lot of South, the camps, Brockton, Brockton, some nights is like the second best guy on the court. Some nights he's the best guy in the court. There's an article today in the paper that if Brockton was with us last year, there's no doubt we would have won that championship. And that's probably accurate. Yeah.

You know, obviously you can't go back and look at it that way. But he's been terrific. He's missed a few games because, obviously, his whole career has been injury prone. But he hasn't missed much. And he seems to be healthy right now. I mean, they're dealing with Jalen Brown, the cut finger injury. But they said he practiced full extent yesterday. Did the conspiracy theory start with that injury yet?

It was a pretty weird injury. He picked up broken glass? What's going on? I think there might have been a Shaughnessy article about all the strange injuries over the years and going way back to Larry Bird in 83. Oh, the bar fight. No, the 85 playoffs.

That was one of the things that cost the title. The bar fight and Cedric Maxwell not getting back in 83. Oh, the bar fight. No, the 85 playoffs. That was one of the things that cost its title. The bar fight and Cedric Maxwell not getting back in shape. Yeah. Bird couldn't make shots in that big playoff game, but there was some conspiracy stuff, but he practiced full tilt yesterday. I give him the benefit of the doubt. We all like

flowers and we have to put them in vases. Yeah, we love Jalen Brown. I'm just saying if my son Ben Simmons had a five-stitch cut shot in his hand and said he picked up a vase and that's how he got it, I think I would have had some follow-up questions. It wasn't his hand. It was a finger. Oh, yeah, his finger. Yeah.

They didn't say which one. Just what we needed was a mysterious cut heading into the playoffs. I mean, we went this long. We didn't even talk about this yet. Neither of us wanted to play Miami. I think they would have beaten Miami, but Kyle Lowry definitely would have unintentionally,

maybe semi-intentionally, injured somebody on our team at some point. There would have been some charge. Rob Williams, Allie, our entire team is not making it out of that Miami series. And all of a sudden they roll over and they lose the 7-8 matchup and I wouldn't have to worry about them.

I agree. First of all, they're not making it out totally healthy. Secondly, they're going to have to play a lot more minutes against Miami. Which really wore us out. Certainly wore Tatum out by the time the finals came around.

Miami is confident against us also. And, you know, Lowry. Lowry's had an awful year. I mean, I watch his stats. He wasn't even starting for the second half of the year, mostly. So, of course, he can have that 33-point game. I'm awfully glad they lost. I never expected them to lose.

Atlanta is a team we have a lot of confidence against. I hope I'm not over-jinxing this series, but it's always been a good matchup for the Celts. A couple of our players, I think Jalen Brown is from the Atlanta area. He kills Atlanta. Al Horford obviously has a long history with Atlanta before Boston.

He loves to play against Atlanta. Yeah, we match up well. I'm not sure who's going to guard Tatum. I know a lot of teams that like to double team Tatum right away. I don't know that Atlanta can do that. Did you, like this Tatum thing, and I think for the most part he was spectacular

I voted for him fourth for MVP he had that one weird stretch for like three weeks where post all-star break I was like was it a good thing

he won the all-star MVP but for the most part has been really great did you know that he scored more points he averaged more points this season than any Larry Bird season? Yeah, I knew he averaged 30.1.

And that's with a couple of games where I don't think he had double figures. But he had a really, really good season. However, he wasn't the same player after the All-Star game. I don't know whether too much went to his head from that MVP and scoring all those points, but his shooting was terrible from the All-Star game until about two weeks ago. His three-point shooting was terrible. I mean, the percentage is below 30%. So hopefully he doesn't take as many threes or he takes them when they're more in the flow of the offense.

Yeah, he played a lot of basketball the last couple of years. I do think that's a small piece of it. They had a lot of stuff crammed into the bubble season. 21, they got out of the playoffs early that year, but last year was a lot of minutes. He's young. I actually think he's going to have a huge playoffs. I think he's one of those guys.

The team, I don't want to say they got bored, but after they had that whole 23-5, that start and everything, and then teams really started coming at them. Then the All-Star break. I don't know. I just felt like the team looked a little disheveled there for a while, but I

thought down the stretch, they started to look like they did at the beginning of the season. Maybe I'm being too optimistic. No, I think you're mostly accurate. The thing that worries me is teams seem to have picked up on what Golden State did a little bit. They're immediately doubling him when he comes across midcourt.

And I'm not sure he always makes the right decision. And he's our best player, and you don't want to see him giving up the ball so quickly, unless he gets the ball back. And I think that's our offensive flow. Coaches have really had that strategy down, especially when Brown comes out for a rest. When Tatum's out there by himself with four other people, they're doubling him every time he comes over the court.

And in the playoffs, that magnifies itself. I mean, defense becomes much more critical. That worries me. All right, so let's say we make the finals. What scenario scares you more, Golden State or the Lakers? Oh, Golden State. I told you, and I think you asked me on a previous podcast, I saw all the Western teams come in this year.

I thought Golden State handled us the easiest. And they didn't even have Wiggins in that game. It's a little bit like Miami. A little bit, they have our number. We can take that number back, but they have a lot of confidence against us, obviously. Okay, so I agree with that from a basketball standpoint. But from an emotional and psychological standpoint, the Lakers somehow making the finals

and then beating us in the finals. Ron, on the Lakers beating us in the finals. To me, that's like... You'd have to give me the last rights. I couldn't handle that. That, to me, is an apocalypse. That's like a sports apocalypse. Our dislike

of the Lakers goes back too many years. I could not handle that at my age. I think that's my single worst sports scenario is LeBron and AD somehow dragging this weird Lakers team to the finals and then beating us in the finals would be the absolute worst. You and I still have that terrible memory of games, the game six where LeBron scored like a hundred points against us.

Oh, in Miami. Yeah. And we thought we were up three to two and suddenly we lose the series. We haven't beaten him in a series since that, like that was when everything flipped. And then, you know, the Lakers, I thought you were going to talk about the, uh, the last two Laker games, Perkins, Perkins going down, Kobe six for 24. Then I have to live here.

I'd have to hear shit for the rest of the year about it. So, um, No, that's a terrible memory. I mean, it was really nice that you invited me to those two games in Los Angeles, but they scarred me for life. I can still see Perkins falling to the ground. You know what was an underrated terrible one was when we went to game five of the 2008 finals and we thought the Celtics were going to finish off the Lakers and Scott Foster was like,

I have other ideas. I think he gave everyone on our team three fouls in the first five minutes of the game. That's another wild card. The refereeing. I looked at the lineup of who they've picked to referee the first round.

It's your typical cast of characters. They're in a tough spot. It didn't affect the play-ins that much, it didn't seem like. But yeah, I think I'm with you. The Warriors seem like they have our number. It seems super comfortable. The Lakers is the apocalyptic scenario.

And we play Denver well. We have played Phoenix well. Of course, we haven't played them with Durant. Yeah, the Suns would be the most fun scenario because it'd be a fun series. Everyone would be showing the 1976, you know, like, oh, the 76 finals, Triple OT game.

That'd be great. I can't get to the finals yet because if we get to the conference finals... Yeah, we got to get through Milwaukee. I was doing the big hypothetical. By the way, that Celtics-Lakers game five I mentioned,

KG had five fouls, Pierce had five fouls, Ray Allen fouled out, and P.J. Brown had five fouls. With 28 fouls. Yeah. Scottled out and P.J. Brown had five fouls with 28 fouls. Yeah. Scott Foster. Thanks, Scott. Yeah, I'm with you. It feels like Giannis will have 17 extra

chips on his shoulder against us in this playoff series too. I think he's still pissed off about last year, like in a real way. Yeah, and I think their team looks a little stronger with one caveat, whether their forward's going to be 100% healthy because it looks like he hurt his knee a little bit again.

Middleton. Yeah. The best thing in our favor for that series is how comfortable Tatum looks against Milwaukee. That is true. It's a little like the reverse of the Golden State Boston thing. It just looks like he feels like he can score on anyone on that team. And we are comfortable defensively against Giannis.

So there's a couple, a couple of things that the Philly series, I'm going to come back for the Philly series. If that, if it's Philly, Boston round two, I'm going to try to go to like the last five games of that series. Cause you know,

we, that's what we've grown up with. I know our whole, our whole life. We've had Philly, Boston dated back to the freaking 1977. Remember that one? Yes.

Doug Collins, Dr. J and Daryl Dawkins beating the, uh, Cowan's have it basically the last good Cowan's have a check team, but I'm still upset about that team because, uh, Silas Silas. I mean, we, Kalin Savicek team. Well, I'm still upset about that team because... Silas.

Silas. I mean, we should have won that championship. Red Auerbach made one of his few mistakes. He wouldn't give Silas the money. And we got our rebound in that series. For those... It was kind of funny. They had a...

You know how at the Celtic Games they always honor a season ticket holder they actually added a season ticket holder who had had the has had the tickets 65 years now they didn't say whether he inherited them from his dad like you will inherit my tickets so i'd like to know whether he looked, he looked a lot older than me. So maybe he has had the tickets that long. Maybe that's why they haven't honored you yet. So you've only been, this is your 50th year.

Yeah. So that guy was, so that guy was 1959? Yeah, I've not requested to be honored, by the way. I don't want to be up on that jungle trail. I just think you should have been. Yeah, probably. 50 years. 50 straight years, not inherited.

It's pretty impressive. 50 straight years, not inherited. That's right. Well, you've been going 50 years. I know, but I'm just saying. Not quite. Yeah. Yeah.

No, you took me a couple times that first year. But 1959, that's 65 years is amazing. Yeah, it was about the same. So he saw almost all the Russell titles. Yeah, exactly. Maybe that could be your co-host for the Blue Plate Special podcast. I have to talk to FanDuel. He could be my first guest.

He's talking about Russell and Sam Jones? Yeah, if he's able to have a conversation. If they didn't have him talk, he was just up there accepting the basketball. Have you worked up the proper amount of animosity for the Philly series? What needs to happen? You've never liked PJ Tucker.

You've never liked watching Harden. But you like Embiid, though. I like Embiid. How can you not like Embiid? We hoped we would get Embiid during that draft, remember? We were hoping he would fall. Oh, when he got hurt, the Marcus Smart draft. Yes.

We were hoping that people would be worried about his health and that he'd slip because of that reason. I think the odds of that were probably 101, but you talked yourself into it. It was pretty funny. I talked myself into it. The Philly team, I like the Philly team. I think they're fun to watch.

We have the Doc Rivers piece. We've played well against them, though. You also have the Harden piece. His history in the playoffs, you can't discard that. Something happens to the guy in the playoffs. Plus, I don't think he's 100% healthy, right? He's definitely not healthy.

Doesn't look it. All right, before we go. Can I just say, these two months in Boston, the Celtics, the Bruins, the marathon is Monday, the Patriot draft that we love, the controversy with the Patriot front office,

the Red Sox suck, the weather's good. This is the time to be in Boston. Okay. Well, that leads me to my last question. America can't wait to hear your answer for this. I know you've studied the draft. I know you've read all the mocks.

The Patriots have, I think, the 14th pick. And I know you've probably decided on who you want. So who have you selected for the Patriots, knowing that they're going to trade down and break your heart for the 70th straight year? Well, if he slips a little bit, I would love to see them take the receiver from Ohio State. If not that wide receiver, one of the top three tackles, so we could put a tackle out there.

Like a left tackle? Any left tackle? Well, there's three super high chip tackles. What's going to happen is it's going to kill both of us. They're going to trade down and take

a cornerback. They will kill us. Another cornerback. trade down and take a cornerback. It will kill us. Another cornerback. And we never pick good cornerbacks. They usually come in as free agents. The only thing against Belichick trading down this year for a future pick, like you're right, in the past, Belichick would trade backwards. We'd get the 37th pick in the second round and a future first.

And be like, ah, what a great trade. And then we would take some cornerback who would immediately get hurt and go on the injured list. This year, if he doesn't feel like he's sticking around long-term, if the Kraft-Belichick,

all those rumors are true, maybe he does just try to take the best available guy who can help right away. I think that is a very, that's a very strong possibility that he's under the clock a little bit from Kraft. I mean,

we only know what we read, but it certainly seems like Kraft has his fingers in some of the decisions that are being made. Kraft started to get, I think, I've talked about this in the pod a couple times, Kraft started to get a little aggro last year, especially with the coaching staff,

how much of a mess that was, and then the quarterback stuff. I think Belichick, and if this is true, that Kraft is, I'm not going to call it meddling because he owns the team and we've been terrible the last couple of years,

but if Kraft has more of an imprint on what's happening, I think the reason Belichick hasn't responded and rebelled, he really wants that record of the most wins of any coach ever. He needs two more years to get it. Maybe it won't be in New England. This weekend, you're going to Game 1, Hawks-Celtics. Saturday afternoon, 3.30, yep. And Bruins also starting this weekend?

No, the Bruins start, it looks like Monday night because... Oh, Monday night. Game two of the Celtics series at home is Tuesday night. So I think the Bruins have to start at home Monday night. And marathon happening? Marathon is Monday. Unfortunately, it may rain. All right. What a time for you.

I can't wait to hear the updates. I hope and pray that around 4.15 on Saturday, you're not sending me the uh-oh, Rob's walking to the locker room text. I hope I don't get that for this entire spring. Not a single Rob Williams text. Rob's walking to the locker room text. I hope I don't get that for this entire spring. Not a single Rob Williams text.

Rob's walking to the locker room and Scott Foster is our referee. Yeah, I don't want to send that text. Something's wrong with Rob. He just left. But just don't even tell me. Just let me find out on Twitter. I don't want the text.

All right, Dad, good to see you. Good to see you. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Brian Windhorst. Thanks to Fand. Thank you. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Brian Windhorst. Thanks to FanDuel Sportsbook. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Kyle Crate for producing.

Don't forget, if you like Succession, Prestige TV podcast Sunday night. Don't forget to check out FanDuel TV as well. And we will see you on Sunday. Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the hoops.