The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA All-Stars, Round 2 Upsets, and 'The Sopranos' 20 Years Later, With Joe House and Alan Sepinwall | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 467)

Episode Date: January 11, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to talk first-team All-NBA players (2:50), and then a little Friday Rollin' NFL playoff picks (35:50). Then Bill talks with Rolling Stone's Alan Sepinwall about 'The Sopranos' on its 20th anniversary, and Alan's new book, 'The Sopranos Sessions,' cowritten with David Chase and Matt Zoller Seitz (1:12:05). Finally, Bill calls up his dad to get his thoughts on the Patriots-Chargers matchup in the AFC divisional playoff on Sunday (1:39:50). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's early edition of Friday Rolling on the BS podcast is brought to you as always by ZipRecruiter. You know what's not smart? Not listening to somebody who's licking their wounds after round one who wrote the playoff manifesto. I'm coming back hard in round two. You better listen to me this round. You know what else is inspired?

Job sites that overwhelm you. Tons of the wrong resumes. Luckily, a smart way exists at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. They find people with the right skills for your job. They actively invite them to apply. Right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS.

That is ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, SeatGeek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more for $10 off your first SeatGeek purchase on any game or sporting event. That includes you, Cowboy fans,

that are going to be overwhelming this Rams game on Saturday night. I can feel it. Use promo code BS, download the SeatGeek app, or go right to SeatGeek.com. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com and The Ringer Podcast Network, the world's best website and podcast network. Hey, J.J. Reddick, if you're a business guy, J.J. Reddick interviewed the Goldman Sachs CEO on his podcast. Amazing.

I don't even think that guy does interviews. David Solomon. Check it out. Speaking of things to check out, we're debuting a new show on all of our platforms as soon as True Detective ends on HBO at 11 p.m. E.T. this Sunday night after football, so you're safe. True Detective's back. The Ringers, Chris Ryan and Jason Concepcion are also back. They are our guides as we navigate the twisting pathways of season three's plots, themes, and characters.

Join them every Sunday. It's called The Flat Circle, a true detective after show on The Ringer's YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook pages. They will chase down leads, explore each episode's cultural content, discuss true crime cases that mirror the ones in the show,

and Chris will be wearing a ski cap. That's all I can tell you. It's good, though. This is good. And all of us are kind of high on this third season of True Detective. Did not like the second season, but I think this one is going to be really good. So check all that out. Speaking of HBO, we're going to talk to Alan Sepinwall about his new Sopranos book

and whether it's time to really dive in and rewatch The Sopranos. My answer is it is. He's coming up after Joe House. We're talking NBA All-Star voting as well as the million-dollar picks for round two. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, it's a little Friday rolling here with Joe House. Even though we're taping this on a Thursday and it's going up Thursday night, I still feel like it's Friday rolling, Joe House. If we're talking football, we're talking picks.

We got to be rolling, Bill Simmons. I missed you last week. You were on vacation. Look, that's your prerogative. You had spent time with your family. I needed to bounce some picks off of you. I used Ryan Rosillo. I felt like his last name ended in a vowel, so I'd be in good shape there. I violated some rules from the playoff manifesto, and I felt really bad about it. I took an unproven rookie QB. That was not great. And I just did not realize the nobody believes in us power of the Eagles once Chicago decided to play them over Minnesota.

I miss that. I'm slipping. I'm slipping, house. It's like the godfather. Ten years ago, Salazzo never could have gotten to me. Ten years ago, the Eagles never could have gotten to me. I would have seen it coming. I will say I appreciate you giving me the extra week to sober up

because the last time I was on this podcast, I was something other than sober. And I would have, if it's any solace, only tried to talk you out of one of those two mistakes. I would have argued vociferously for the Eagles covering. It was just too many points, it felt like to me. I made the same

dumb mistake with Lamar Jackson, though. You know, I really felt strongly that the Eagles weren't going to be able to score, and I wasn't wrong. I think what I just wasn't great about was the Bears weren't going to score either. Trubisky was bad for three quarters and it took them too long to get going. We're going to talk about all of that.

By the way, just so you know, people love Drunk House. Drunk House was on a month ago. Yeah, we talked about my NBA trade value column. You were coming from a holiday party. I had a couple in you. I got emails and texts from people who really were dead seriously saying that you should have a couple drinks before every podcast. So apparently now you're Dean Martin. I don't know how that happened. That can be arranged.

I mean, just give me a couple hours heads up. I'm on it. So before we get to football picks, and we're going to talk Sopranos a little bit later with Alan Cepulon. I'm happy to talk about that with you at the tail end of this if you want. I have my NBA All-Star ballot, which the media, I don't remember if they did it that way last year. But this year, they sent it to me just for the starters. What are my votes? And I wanted to throw at you what my votes are going to be and see if you wanted to talk me out of anything

because it's due I think it's due in a couple days or maybe it's due in 10 days I don't know but I thought we'd at least get it going so the Eastern Conference you pick two guards and you pick three forwards

three front court guys basically so for the East, I was thinking for the guards, Kyrie Irving, Kemba Walker were the two that jumped out at me as Kyrie's had his most efficiencies and the Celtics are really starting to play well now. Kemba has been kind of a one-man show, even though Charlotte's a 500 team. I think they would be a bottom four team if he wasn't there. Is there any other East guard that I should be considering, just off the top of your head?

The only guy that I would want to look at his stats and think about a little bit longer is Oladipo, but he's missed so many games, I feel like I can kind of dismiss him out of hand. Yeah, so Oladipo normally would have that spot. He missed some games. I don't think he's 100% healthy, and I'm not 100% sure they're using him correctly. Just having watched him a few times, I wish his usage rate would go up.

I wish his usage rate and Kyrie's usage rate was both a little bit higher. Although maybe now the Celtics have figured it out. I don't know. I'm watching that. The Celts played their best game of the year last night against Indiana. And I called my dad at halftime. I'm like, are you watching this? And he's like, yeah, we look great.

And we were like, what do you think the difference is? And it's almost like everybody's bought in now. Nobody's going to be totally happy with their minutes. When you're in there, just try your ass off. And now that's starting to happen. So anyway, they played Indiana last night, and it was clearly a situation where Indiana needed to take their best guy and basically be like, yo, you got to save us, dude.

Can you pull a James Harden or something close? And they just aren't thinking about him that way. But what I noticed with them is it seems over and over again, late in games is when they're going to ask him to do that. I think they should get him going earlier personally. But I think we're right at the juncture where we might start seeing that. I agree with you that Oladipo is not all the way healthy. And on the observation you made about the Celtics, we're exactly at the right moment for the chemistry experiment to be over. We kind of are finally having the results of that experiment.

We are literally halfway through the season right now. And so it makes perfect sense that the rotation has rounded into form. The guys know what their roles are going to be. It makes perfect sense that it took has rounded into form. The guys know what their roles are going to be. It makes perfect sense that it took 41 games to figure it out. For the Pacers, the right thing to do in view of Oladipo's injury is to kind of save that end of game. I don't want to use the word clutch because I know that

that has a bunch of analytical connotation to it. Yeah, you saved the Oladipo bullet for late. Crunch. I get it, yeah. But they need him to get going because defensively, I think they made a leap. They were terrible last night. But just in general, their defenses come on. Turner's played a lot better since we left him out of the trade value column.

He took note. He did. I think he read it. I think he got pissed off. But the bottom line is Oladipo's stats just aren't as good as they were last year. He's averaging three points a game less. His all of his shooting percentages are down. And the eye test, he doesn't seem like he's 100% yet.

So I don't feel bad about the Kimball Walker thing. Those are my two guards. For the front court, this was easier to me. Giannis and Kawhi, obviously. Yes. Shaking my head yes. Easy. And then Embiid.

I'm done. Do I even need to overthink this? Who else would even crack that? I'm trying to think about one of these Eastern teams on the come up that you want to give a little honorable mention to. There was some fun Vucevic. Nobody from Orlando, right? Yeah, there's some fun Vucevic first like 25 games, but now they're cratering, so that's not going to work.

There's been an amazing John Collins run, which we actually wrote about on The Ringers. He's been like a 22-12 guy now for like a month and a half. Why are the Hawks trying to win games, by the way? I don't think they can help it. It's funny because I don't think they want to win games. I just think they have young guys. And the funny thing is Ty young really has been up and

down and the downs have been craters but um but i i think they just have some good players in their team it's the pride of the wing unit podcast yeah but i'm i'm so worried about that podcast because that's my favorite podcast right now or one of them and baysmore is in all these trade rumors like that uh that he might be available. Can people get him? It's like Silver might have to step in and just be like, look, you're not allowed to trade Kent Bazemore

until after the year. This podcast has been too entertaining. I mean, we need him in Washington. I don't really see anybody else who has a case for a front court spot in the East unless you want to say Dwight Howard for not playing.

You can't say Dwight Howard to me anymore. It's just, there's, it's just too loaded. Your Wizards team is, there's some viewing theory going on a little bit here. Sadoransky, John Wall, no John Wall, Beal taking ownership. No, nothing. Let me ask you this. Yeah. It was put to me today, a conversation in the gym where all the great conversations occur.

Yeah. Would you, straight up, well, let me put it to you in Bill Simmons fashion. Who says no? Wiggins, Andrew Wiggins for John Wall. I would do that if I was Washington in five seconds. I would not do that if I was Minnesota. Me too. I would do that in five seconds.

But here's the case for Minnesota. Towns, the best towns. What's going to be the best towns? When are we going to see the best version of towns? They've been sort of dabbling around with a point guard. They've tried to bring quality point play into minnesota they hit a miracle home run with derrick rose but d rose is is mainly still the best version of d roses as a score not a distributor don't you get the best out of your town's investment with a point guard that can set them up?

House. I'm trying. I'm trying. Come on. Can you send me a list of your 10 closest friends? Because I want to surprise you at an undisclosed location a month from now and explain to you in an intervention style that the Wizards have no chance of trading John Wall. It is an impossibility. Can we get Mexico to pay for that wall? You're on fire today.

I honestly think you have a better chance of trading Dwight Howard. John Wall is, I would say, the most untradeable contract in the entire league. Let's play this game. Speaking of Dwight Howard, this is the only question I'll ask without crossing any lines yeah how what's the over under on number of nba games that dwight howard will play in in for

the rest of his life oh wow so if i said 49.5 would you go over under under? I personally am going to go way, way, way, way under because it's my theory that he's not going to play another NBA basketball game for the rest of his life. I wouldn't be surprised. He has a lot of miles on him already, and he's had a lot of injuries. And at some point, the question for him is whether he wants to go through what Shaq went through the last two years in Cleveland and Boston.

Yes. When he was just like big fat shell of himself Shaq. And then Shaq had like this moment on the Celtics for like a month when everybody was going, oh, wow, Shaq. Oh. And then he got hurt. It's just too hard for a big centers to stay on the floor. Hey, there's one frontcourt guy we should mention who isn't eligible for frontcourt, but at least would have been fun for the discussion,

was Ben Simmons, who I don't think should be an all-star starter. But the league was a little more finite about the positions this time. And it's like, if you vote for Simmons, it has to be for a guard. So I don't know if you feel like ben simmons over kemba is a conversation we need to have i personally think no now and i

have recency bias i watched him commit seven turnovers in the first half last night against the washington wizards he was really bad uh and there is there can you you i have uh you know how old school i am i you cannot put a guy who's afraid to shoot the basketball. You can't name him an NBA starter. It's just a tough one for me. It's funny now because the Sixer fans, they are really going. We ran a piece this week from Ben Dietrich, diehard Sixer fan, really, really pro Simmons.

I enjoyed it. But they really, it's down to the point where the spotlight has been on this team now for two years in a really significant way. And when you watch them, there's nights like last night when they just seem unhappy. Now, they're coming off a four-game win streak where they seemed happy. Last night- Last night was they seemed happy. Last night. Last night was a schedule loss. Last night felt like a schedule loss. But you're talking about you have these three stars that just on paper fit,

but when you, the eye test, I don't see it yet. Now, they have more time to figure it out, but at some point the offense has to run through one of the three. You can't do the your turn, my turn, his turn thing. And that's what they need to figure out more than anything. I'm also not positive. I'm still not positive Simmons

and Embiid should be on the same team. And I mean that from the sense like what I talked about with Zach this week about how much fun a Simmons for Anthony Davis trade would be, where I just kind of want Simmons to have his own team where he doesn't have to worry about a center that he has to get involved, and he's just pushing the ball every single time

with wings and guys who can jump, and I just want to see him in that situation. Well, here's the thing, though. In this iteration of the NBA, you don't get that right. You don't get to be the guy on a team if you won't shoot the basketball. You can't. No franchise can do that. Yeah, but could he be Jason Kidd, late 90s, early 2000s,

where he's not shooting that much, but everything runs through him? I think he could. But he has to start shooting. I think he could. But he has to start shooting. He has to shoot. Is it true? I thought I saw a stat that he's taken zero three-pointers this season. Yeah, see, I disagree on this.

I don't know if he has to shoot. I think he needs to create, whether that actually means he has to shoot from 25 feet. I don't know. But Draymond hasn't been able to shoot for two years, but he's still been able to create opportunities for other teammates. Simmons is much better than Draymond offensively. I don't know about – I mean, Draymond feels eminently tradable. You and I covered this a little bit maybe a month ago or so. I don't know.

But the thing – I would agree with you in terms of that creator role maybe seven years ago, the way the NBA existed then. Now you have to have, if you have the ball, you have to be able to score it. If the ball's in your hands,

you have to be able to score it. Yeah. I don't know. I hate overreacting to what's happening recently. I still feel like there's a place in the world for an offense to run around a guy who is as him on the low post way more often than from what I've seen. I haven't watched as many Sixers quarters as Ben Dietrich, but that's always my last thing when I leave a Sixers game. That was what I was scared of in the playoff series last year with Boston. I just never wanted them to post up Ben Simmons because I felt like as soon as they did that, the Celtics, you could tell how scared they were of that.

All of a sudden, defenders were flying around trying to figure out what to do, sending a double at them. And that's what I'm afraid of. So anyway, he's only 22. He's a work in progress. Yeah, you just put it so beautifully. For the purposes of the all-star starter ballot, right, so Ben Simmons is not to be the all-star starter uh from the east at the guard position but we have half of the regular season to go and and to my way of thinking the more interesting half and the playoffs and so all of that is a brand new tabula rasa opportunity blank slate to go do some of these things. And we've seen this many times.

A team's identity can take off in kind of the second half of the season. And so maybe that's what's in front of us. And I hope so. We saw it last season with them. And that's, I think... We saw it with them and Utah last year. That's why I'm leaning more.

I see both sides of the Simmons debate. And I also think it's January and people on the internet just need stuff to argue about every day. I see both sides. I am personally, as a basketball fan, a little disappointed just because of what he showed during the last 30 plus games of the regular season last year and in the first round. And then I thought he lost momentum. The Celtics did something in that round too, and I don't feel like he's fully recovered. I thought he was like a dark horse MVP candidate this season,

and we just haven't seen that guy yet. So maybe we'll see it. I don't know. All right. In the West, it gets a little tougher. Guards aren't that hard. I have for the two guards, I have Curry and I have James Harden. I don't know if you've heard of him.

He's been playing pretty well lately. I'm familiar with the work of both of those gentlemen. It doesn't feel like any other name should enter the conversation. So just other names. Dame Lillard. Kyrie. I'm sorry. De'Aaron Fox.

Mike Conley's lost some momentum. Drew Holiday, not good enough. DeMar DeRozan. Little momentum lately, but not all-star starter momentum. Devin Booker, the team's just not successful enough. Russell Westbrook, averaging a triple-double house. I don't know if you knew that. The guy is averaging a triple-double house.

MVP! MVP! Every game, he's getting a triple-double if you average it out. Yeah. I went on Zach Lowe's podcast yesterday and I actually like OKC

because Russ doesn't seem like he's a little bit washed or on the other side of his career or anything he's just not making shots but athletically and from an energy standpoint he seems the same he might just be in a horrible slump or something but if he can snap out of it a little the team around him is really good.

I like that team. They're good. Yeah, I like that team a lot. They have a defensive identity that I did not anticipate. I think we still pick the over for them. Yeah, that's going to win. They can get locked down. So, Curry and Harden, I think that's a

no-brainer. Both guys, Curry's having a borderline career year. He was still better three years ago, but all his numbers are pretty close. The team success hasn't been as good. And Harden's having, honestly, one of the great offensive runs in the history of the league and has a chance to, fuck,

break the vaunted 35-point a game. It's in playhouse. Just incredible. I love it. I can't get enough. I did some research on the 33-point club pass. I was going to put this in the Trade Value Calm this month, but I'll step on it here, whatever.

Only 10 guys have ever scored 33 points a game in a season it's only happened 19 times total Will Chamberlain 7 times Jordan 3 times

Elgin Baylor 2 times Rick Barry early Kobe Bryant the famous Kobe year Kareem yes

Bob McAdoo. Oh, I wouldn't, the two I wouldn't have gotten are McAdoo or Barry. Tiny Archibald. You wouldn't get these two. Allen Iverson did it once. That, like, if with enough time, I might've got to AI.

Charlie Scott in the ABA. You're right. I wouldn't have got that one. You wouldn't have gotten that one. My point is, this is very hard to do. And I love like the 30 points a game, 33 points a game, 35 points a game. If you're scoring 33 points a game,

you have like one 12-point game or you go six for 18 one game or you just suck. Then you have to almost average 34 points a game to pull that one up for the next couple weeks, right? It's just really hard to do that night after night after night. And now he's at the point where it's shocking if he doesn't get 35. Like last night he had 42.

He had an off night. He was 13 for 30. That team is the way they're built around him and how brilliant he is now. It really seems like he's 13 for 30. That team is the way they're built around him and how brilliant he is now. It really seems like he might get to 35. He's at like 33 point something. Now he's in the middle. I think he can get there.

I think he can average. He'd have to average like 36 and a half, 37 the rest of the way, but I think he could do it. What do you think us? I think this is the most admirable stretch of his entire NBA career. Me too. And the reason that I say that, I get the hyperbole,

and I know recency bias and all the reasons why that might sound ridiculous. But to me, what is admirable about it is taking the team on his shoulders. We were disappointed, was it two years ago? Three years, multiple years. The Clippers game, game six, he came out. Yeah, well, individual games we've had disappointments and his postseason performance will always be a question until he personally makes it not be a question any longer.

But just in terms of a regular season, he had a Kardashianardashian dalliance he showed up a little out of shape and houston kind of woefully underperformed and i i can't remember was that the dwight howard year i don't remember there's a couple it's recent memory yeah this team uh this this uh version of the rockets is in a kind of disarray because the personnel impact of losing Ariza and Mabamute and then having you know the completely washed Mello along for the ride that was very impactful and then Chris Pov just getting hurt right away all that stuff yeah exactly and and really the only solution for Houston,

the only one that was staring them in the face was James Harden playing out of his effing mind. And lo and behold, we have that. That's, that's cool. I would say. I agree.

I made the point on Zach's pod yesterday. What's cool is that his teammates have completely bought in. This does not feel like 2006 Kobe where they feel like the hired help. These guys. No, not at all. These guys are really enjoying it. No, not at all. This is the version of Capella. Yeah, it really does seem like he's been so good that it's actually inspired

the other guys on his team to raise their game and to go all out in these games. And that's my favorite thing of this. And it takes, even last night they lost to Milwaukee. Milwaukee had to play really well. And Milwaukee has Giannis. And the key player of the game was uh a missed shot on milwaukee's side and yannis is an alien and just went up over seven people and tipped it in from the wrong angle like what are you gonna do they lost to a great player but they were in the game

when he wasn't even playing well so right now he's at 33.9, House. And now you're talking about the only guys who have averaged 34 a game, Wilton Michael, the Kobe year, Kareem, Rick Barry, Bob McAdoo, Elgin. Oh, no, Elgin didn't even get to 34. So that's it. So, I mean, this is like, if he gets to 35 a game, now you're talking four guys ever have done that. Wilt, Jordan, Barry, Kobe.

And I think he's going to get to 35 unless he gets hurt. Well, no, the other thing that might work against that is they're really dying for Eric Gordon to get going. And, you know, he's been in... They might actually die. If they're dying for that they might actually pass away he's been in what feels like a two-month slump um that they're they're true playoff fortune they absolutely positively have to have a a eric gordon that is at least performing at his statistical average over the duration of his career. And he's pretty significantly below that right now.

And so would Harden sacrifice touches and shots to get Gordon? No. Sorry, Eric Gordon. If Gordon shows the answers no? No. Okay. How about this? We'll trade you, Eric Gordon, if you're not happy.

You can leave. You're an expiring contract. Doesn't it feel like there is yet for Houston, all jokes aside, an acquisition to be had? Well, I'm from John Wall. Apparently, everybody's hot for John Wall these days. He's out for the year. He has the worst contract in the league. He is available.

You should see if you can get him. Unfortunately, I've met Daryl. Daryl can give you that skeptical eye. And he gave it to me when I asked him about Dwight Howard. I don't want to look Daryl in the face and ask him about John Wall. I can't handle it. I can't handle the rejection. Speaking of voting, this year it's actually easier than ever for fans to vote because

you can just vote for NBA All-Stars by searching on Google. Search for your favorite player or team. You can vote right in the search bar. You can also search on Google to stay up to date with live scores and view upcoming game schedules. The All-Star Game is February 17th. Voting runs until January 21st. Fans can vote for 10 players a day. So go vote right now on Google. And we've been doing this on the Ringer NBA show, and we might as well do it here too, talking about what the watch of the night is. Tonight on TNT, Celtics heat at Miami, followed by Thunder Spurs.

So keep an eye on that one, house. Quickly, the front court, and then we got to get to NFL picks. My front court, Kevin Durant and Paul George as my forwards. Can't argue it. The only other person

that has a case is a guy you might've heard of who plays in New Orleans and his name is Anthony Davis. Wait, wait. That would be your fifth. That's the third front court guy. It would be, except I think I'm going to put Nikoli Jokic there.

And I think Anthony can go sit in his French Quarter mansion where he's secretly bummed out, complaining about how much he has to do for his team. And meanwhile, his team's pretty good. I don't want to hear it, Anthony. This is so disrespectful. Yeah, I don't want to hear it, Anthony. Guess what?

Wow. Guess what? Wow. Guess what? You're the most talented. I said this on Zach's yesterday. I'm doubling down. You are the most talented power forward of all time. You won a crazy run last year where even Tim Duncan was like, holy shit, I can't believe what that guy's doing. He didn't say that, but he was thinking it.

And now it's like a new year and it's like, oh man, it's so hard every night. And he's buying a house in LA and he signs with Clutch. None of this is good. I'm penalizing you. I'm not voting you for an all-star starter. You're berating the brow. Yeah. I think Paul George has been better. You know what I saw from Paul George? A guy who, whether he was told by Adam Silver to do this or not, re-signed with Oklahoma City to play with Russell Westbrook, his friend. And he has stepped up his game and he's been awesome. I like that. You know what else I like?

Kevin Durant's having one of the best seasons of his career. I'm not going to bounce Kevin Durant as an all-star. When I have Anthony Davis, who's missed like eight or nine games already this season. I never know when he's going to play. He's unhappy. He hasn't thrown water on the trade room or stuff yet. You know what? Go come off the bench

in my all-star game, Anthony Davis. I'm done with you. I believe, the Joker is the one that I'm surprised that you have in there. Durant and George,

their cases are impeccable. I wouldn't argue against either one. The Joker's 27 and 12 and he's the one seed right now. And Davis is 20 and 22 and he's going to be representing the Pelicans in the lottery.

Only he won't because he doesn't want to be there. So he can come off the bench. All hail to the Joker. Yeah, sorry. Berating the brow. That's ballsy. Triple B. Ballsy berating the brow.

You know what? You're in New Orleans for now, and you're under contract. Lead him to the playoffs. How about that? There's an idea. Are we sure his team's bad? I like Drew Holiday. It isn't whether they're bad or not. The problem is two crucial positions. They have new personnel.

They have Julius Randle and Alfred Payton in place of Boogie Cousins and Rajon Rondo. That's kind of a sizable difference in place of Boogie Cousins and Rajon Rondo, that's kind of a sizable difference in terms of personnel and chemistry. And I know that they lost Boogie in February last year, but still, asking Davis to put the team on his back after they'd played together the way they had through the first sort of two-thirds of the season last year, and he did it, and he was awesome, and they were great.

He did. And they went in and kicked ass in the playoffs. It's a totally different thing to start this season from, I don't know, you're not starting from zero, but you're not starting from the same place you were the previous season, not even close. Can I let you in on a little secret, Ash? Huh? Can I let you in on a little secret, As? Huh? Can I let you in on a little secret?

Please. I was just doing this for show. I'm not really that mad at Anthony Davis, but I'm not voting him for a starter. I do think his team's a little better than it gets credit for. You're an entertainer. Unbelievable. I'm an entertainer.

I'm just trying to entertain people. Look, he's averaging a 29 and 13. I don't know how much more he could do, but it's more to me, it's rewarding Jokic. I love Jokic. Okay. Zach and I discussed it yesterday on the pod. He has

the rarest of rare abilities is he makes every person he plays with better. And if you just look at their roster, they don't have another all-star candidate on it. Who's their second all-star? They're going to have one all-star. It's going to be him. And they're the one seed. He's been great. He makes, his passing, I've just never seen anything like it. We grew up, we were going to Holy Cross seeing, hearing about Sabonis and how apparently wonderful he was and

not really knowing anything other than the Olympics when he killed us. Then he showed up in Portland. He had that giant head and looked like he was just washed up, couldn't move. Bill Walton was another one. We were pretty young for Portland. I barely remember it. But then the 86 Celtics version, he's playing 18 minutes a game. That was awesome. This where you get to see night after night, I love it. And I want to reward him. And, you know, I'm sorry you're not happening in New Orleans, Anthony Davis, but you're going to have to come out of the bench for me. I don't really want to prolong this discussion any further. The only thing I would say is if we were going to really have an argument about starter,

I think the argument is properly Durant versus Davis. Oh, I like that. Okay. Because Durant, you could argue, yeah, he has got one foot out the door too. So you could also make that argument. And that very popular trope of the Warriors record when Curry's hurt and Durant's capacity to bring them versus games where know, games where Curry's a solo and Durant's out. That's good. You know what?

I'm glad we talked this out. What I'm going to do, I'm going to pencil in Jokic. I'm going to pencil in Paul George because I think he's been flat out incredible. And I have, I think, another few days to figure this out. And I'm going to just monitor the Durant versus Davis thing. And maybe Davis will swing it. Davis thing. Oh, I helped. Maybe Davis will swing it. You did.

You helped a little. Unbelievable. America thanks you. A little. Let's take a quick break, then we'll talk football picks. Hey, we all put off doing things we know we need to do. We know we need to organize the garage or make those returns, but something always gets in the way.

Funny how home security can be like that, too. You know it's a good idea, but there's something holding you back always. Well, SimpliSafe believes nothing should come between you and protecting your home. They've gotten rid of the reasons not to get home security. For instance, no contract, no price markups from any middleman, no installation windows.

It's only engineered to do one thing brilliantly, protect you. If a storm takes out your power, if an intruder cuts your phone line, if they destroy your keypad or siren, SimpliSafe will always get you the help you need. Maybe it's overkill. Maybe it's the last thing you want to think about.

But with SimpliSafe, you're ready for anything. Get a jump on protecting your home at simplisafe.com slash BS. No time like the president. SimpliSafe.com slash BS. That is SimpliS Safe with two I's. And since we're here, check out the Ringer NFL show if you want to hear the predictions from Kevin Clark and Robert Mays,

GM Streets, Michael Lombardi, and Tate Frazier, or the Dynasty Football if you need a little help with your daily fantasy, Danny Heifetz. Dual threat. And Danny Kelly. Well, dual threat already happened. Oh, yeah. They've already listened to that. You can still listen well dual threat already happened oh yeah they've already listened to that okay you can still listen to dual threat with ryan rossillo but i'm assuming they already listened to that all right back to house all right football picks time lost some money last week house

mostly i lost along with you yeah and we could have hedged at halftime with the Eagles. You did hedge. I hedged before the game started. Well, you're a wimp. I didn't want to take the... I don't want to quantify it. I didn't want to take a super L. I was prepared to take a little L.

And I took a little L. I won a million bucks on the Colts. I lost 1.1 on the Ravens. I pushed on Seattle plus two. I thought I had the tease. Bears-Seahawks, which I could have teased against, lost that one for another 1.1, and then lost a 125K flyer.

So that adds up to 1.2 with the push and then 125 so I lost 1.45 or 1.3 last week let's say but I'm still up, the good news is I'm still up I'm up like 4 million you got millions to play with

we're going to play, first game, Chiefs-Colts I'm kind of stunned how much I like the Colts to play with. They got millions to play with. We're going to play. First game, Chiefs-Colts. I'm kind of stunned how much I like the Colts. And, you know, so last week, four road dogs won, which usually doesn't happen. Now, part of my thinking

last week was four road dogs. I like these four road dogs, except I really like Baltimore, but I like the other three. But the road dogs never do that well. People are on that. Everyone's going to have

the road dogs. Let's go against the grain. Then four road dogs cover. This week, there's actually been more action on all four road dogs. I forget where I saw this, but somebody was saying, this is the first time in a long time that more than 50% of the action is on all four dogs. Does that scare you? I feel like the ringer's own cousin Sal, lock it in cousin Sal. I think I saw him talk about this. Yeah. Well, sometimes he gets too caught up in that and gets burned in the end. And I think the Bears was a good example of that.

Oh, that's true. When people are moving one way, he becomes convinced the other way is the way to go. And then sometimes that doesn't work. That's why he doesn't own his own casino house. If he knew where he was going all the time, we'd be going to Cousin Sal's Palace on the strip. I can't wait for that. Whatever it takes for him to get on a hot streak, I'm praying for it. I'm dying for it.

I want to go to Cousin Sal's Palace. I'm betting $1.1 million on the Colts plus I'm praying for it. I'm dying for it. I want to go to Cousin Sal's Palace. I'm betting $1.1 million on the Colts plus five for the following reasons. I've enjoyed them ever since they were two and five when I watched them almost beat the Eagles

and I filed it away and I talked about it on this podcast that I just, there was something I liked. I liked how they could move the ball. I liked their youth. I thought they could protect luck, which is super important. And they had a couple of playmakers I liked. I liked how they could move the ball. I liked their youth. I thought they could protect luck, which is super important.

And they had a couple of playmakers I liked. Since then, they've really taken off. And the number is the second half of the season. They're basically top three DVOA. Right now, if you throw in the week one of the playoffs, football outsiders has Casey and Indy one and two in weighted DVOA house. So that's one.

It makes sense. I just think when I look at a line and I think the line should be blank and I just am getting points, that's always on my radar. I feel like this line should be three. I think the Chiefs should be three point favorites over the Colts and I'm getting two extra points. I'm getting five. I like that. Now, here's the thing with the KC defense.

They have two good pass rushers, and that's about it. The pass rushers against, you know, a crap offensive line can wreak some havoc. As we saw last week, and as we've seen, really, this whole Colts run, they have a fantastic offensive line, and they're really able to protect luck. week, and as we've seen really this whole Colts run, they have a fantastic offensive line and they're really able to protect luck. And I think that they can handle the Chiefs pass rush, which leads me to Kansas City gave up 419 first downs this season. To put that in perspective, Cleveland

was the second worst team giving up first downs. They gave up 42 less. It was an NFL record house. No team has ever given up more first downs than Kansas City did this year. The Colts, 371 first downs for the season, seventh overall, 26 in round one. It's an offense that actually just gets first downs. And when it's like third and seventh, third and eighth, third and ninth, you just feel like you can get them. I think they're going to be able to keep the Chiefs on the field. And I think this is a three-point game. I don't know who's going to win, but I think the

Colts are going to control the ball. And the only thing that scares me is the dome team playing outside, which used to be in the playoff manifesto, but I ended up taking it out. And there's some stats about that, about John Ewing actually in the Action Network. He had read one of the old playoff manifestos I did and tried to figure out if that, beware of a team that's in a dome or a stadium or a retractable roof playing outdoors in the playoffs. What's that look like?

And it's basically been eight-24 straight up since 2003. Since 1990, 56 dome teams played in outdoor playoff games, and they are 12-44 straight up, 18-36 against the spread. By comparison, non-dome teams outdoors in playoffs, 50-56 over the same. Yeah, if you're on the road and you're not a dome team. I saw that that uh article by ewing i enjoyed it i'm glad that uh they're they're looking at your manifesto they should testing out a few of the glad one of us looked at it in there so anyway that's that's uh that

would be the case against the colts there's also a playoff manifesto rule that i think you tell me if this qualifies oh i, I do. Rule number seven is beware of all the dome teams playing outdoors, especially in cold weather. So that's still there. There's the beware of the looked a little too good the previous round team.

My question is, do the Colts qualify for this? Because they basically didn't score after halfway through the second quarter. They didn't get another point. I didn't come out of that game thinking they looked awesome. It was more like they looked good early, and Deshaun Watson was terrible, and that was it. No?

It did seem like the Colts gave the Texans every opportunity in the second half to go do something to turn that game around. It just felt like the Colts were begging. I didn't love the Colts' play calling in the second half. Either Houston took something away that Indy was doing successfully or Indy went incredibly conservative. It felt like the latter to me. It looked like they went incredibly conservative. I felt like the latter to me. It looked like they went incredibly conservative.

I'm going to go one step further. I think they Milton Berle-ed it a little. I don't think they wanted it. I think they probably had more to pull out of their zipper, but I think they wanted to save some for my man Andy Reid, who is the other reason that I like the Colts plus five. Because guess who coaches Kansas City last time I checked? Andy Reid.

Man. Guess who hasn't won a playoff game in Arrowhead since 1994? The Kansas City Chiefs. Guess who blew a game to Andrew Luck in Arrowhead only a few years ago? The Kansas City Chiefs. There's a lot of skeletons in this game house you can see all of them it's like a cemetery well well let's let's add my skeleton to that mm-hmm two thousand i i'm gonna i can say the amount i don't care two thousand three hundred dollars on the chief's

money line last year oh god they were a minus 230 to win outright against the uh no it was more than minus 230 because it was against Tennessee to win 500 yeah yeah to to beat Tennessee I begged you not to do it I begged you you did you tried your hardest Andy Reid you don't bet on Andy Reid even the playoffs you just don't yeah so I I was prepared and I still think there is a scenario under which the Chiefs, this game is close all the way to the end and the Chiefs have the ball at the end and they score a touchdown and then cover because of a late touchdown. And that's the scenario under which I think the Chiefs cover. But there's just too much against you. You've talked me out of it. There's also an angle. We watched it last weekend. Patrick Mahomes as a debut playoff starter. Yeah, it's an abysmal, dismal record for starters who are making their first playoff appearance. Now, Patrick Mahomes is different in one crucial respect. He is the second quarterback in the history of the National Football League to have both 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns in a season.

And he's also undoubtedly the MVP of the league. So I don't know if the trends that are running against him in terms of him making his debut as a quarterback in this week's game apply, but there's enough other stuff out there. The rookie QB thing isn't great. I don't like the third string running back thing either. And I talked about this last week.

I don't like when guys who haven't been in the spot before, running back, slot receiver, whoever, those are the guys that tend to put the ball on the ground. So that worries me. Now, if you're talking in the favor of the Chiefs, they have the number one offense. Now, I don't know if it's still number one with Damian Williams, but I guess we'll find out.

Great special teams. Second overall special teams. Indy was 27th. That worries me a little bit. But I don't know. I just like getting the points. So we're aligned on that. Colts by five?

Yeah. I'm going to join you on that. Okay. Next one. More controversial. Rams laying seven to the Cowboys. The case against the Cowboys. Jason Garrett is their coach. They're the Cowboys. The case against the Cowboys, Jason Garrett is their coach.

They're the Cowboys. Dak Prescott can look good one play and horrible the next. There's all these stats about he's not great against the interior pass rush. The Rams have a great interior pass rush, even though they haven't got a lot of sacks. They pull out Donald,

who's going to be the best player in the game. You know, they won their game. They're playing outdoors, which you don't think of Dallas as an indoor team, but they actually are. You don't think of LA as an outdoor city, but let me tell you how it's freaking cold here, especially at night. It's going to be like probably like 48 to 50. So you sissy. Well, I'm just saying it's not, it's not going to be probably like 48 to 50.

Sissy. Well, I'm just saying it's not going to be warm. It's not going to be like we're not going to be going to the game in shorts with drinking banana daiquiris. Okay. And then the Rams really just didn't play that well the last six, seven weeks of the season. I think we have this every year where we have the Rabbit team that looks great the first nine, seven weeks of the season. I think we have this every year where we have the Rabbit team that looks great the first nine, ten weeks,

and then after that, they just didn't look the same. And you look at they piled it on against San Francisco and Arizona the last two weeks. Week 14 and 15, they lost to Chicago, put up six points total against a good Chicago defense, lost to Philly 30-23. The shootout against KC, which was the game that allegedly changed the NFL, total against a good Chicago defense. Lost to Philly 30-23. The shootout against KC, which was the game that allegedly changed the NFL,

that was November 19th. So long ago. So anyway, I don't trust the Rams is really what it comes down to for me with that number. And I actually think this might be a non-bet for me. It might stay away completely.

I just don't trust them. I don't trust Goff against that Dallas front seven, which I think is really good. And I think Seattle's game plan last week was an atrocity. But I think one of the reasons it was an atrocity was I think they were really worried they couldn't block that front seven. And they were just trying to grind them down with the run game and couldn't do it. Should they, you should have spread the floor. I mean, I should have spread the field and, uh, and tried to pick them apart. And I'm sure the Rams are going to do that, but the no Cooper cup thing, only having the really two receivers you can count on. And then girly, we have no idea how healthy is. I don't know how it made the seven makes me nervous. What do you think?

I agree with you. It feels like too many points to me. I think what we saw in that Eagles game, the physicality of the Eagles up front against that Rams offensive line and how uncomfortable the Eagles were able to make golf and what that translates into in terms of virtually everything like the the body language out of him when he's uncomfortable because of pressure is such a like a radical departure from the from the confident swagger uh version of golf i think the cowboys can repeat that i think the

cowboys have this same amount of talent and athleticism up front as the Eagles. And, you know, the linebackers are as good as anybody in the league, arguably. Vander Esch has been incredible. Jalen Smith's been incredible. And Demarcus Lawrence on the line is going to go wreak havoc. I mean, I'm with you in terms of just kind of just staying away from it. But if I was going to bet, I would take, I like the Cowboys

getting all those points. You know, there's two other factors here. One is that they really beat Seattle much more handily than I think the final score of that game was. You could make a case like, you know, if Seattle's driving for the garbage time TD or whatever,

and some dumb play happens, and Dallas wins by 17, which really is how that game could have ended, is the line different? If Dallas wins that game, I don't know, 27 to 10, which it kind of felt like it was a 27 to 10 kind of game in some ways, is this line seven? I don't feel like it is. So maybe you're getting free points there. What do you think of that? I agree with you. No, you're absolutely right.

If Dallas had won by 17 going away, I mean, you know, Seattle had the ball at the end of the game with the chance to, you know, tie the game. So it was an optical illusion though. It made it feel like it was closer and Dallas squeezed it out, but they didn't, they really didn't squeeze it out. They dominated that game. Here's the other thing. I think there's going to be like 40% Cowboy fans there. There might even be 50. And I think it's, we see this over and over again and it's happened to me a few times where I bet on the home team and forgotten that there was going to be just a ton of fans for

the other team there. And it just, it's an unsettling feeling when you're playing a home playoff game and half the crowd is not only rooting for the other team, but really, really loudly, belligerently rooting for them. And I'm going to be interested to see you throw that with the Dallas front seven. I kind of want to do a half, like maybe a 550 to win 500K bet on Dallas plus seven just to respect myself. What do you think of that?

Okay, okay. I like it. I mean, the other interesting thing on that home field advantage portion of it, it's not like there's a rabid LA Rams fan base. You know what I mean? It's not like the 60% that show up are going to be insane. No, they're not.

It's going to be one of the most peaceful environments Dak Prescott's ever played in in a road playoff game. You know, and then the other thing, just play it out. Dallas wins, New Orleans wins. Now it's Dallas at New Orleans, NFC title game. And everybody watched talking about the highlights from that other game for a while. I could kind of see that happening. And then Jerry Jones and New Orleans, the two teams that have really clashed the most against Roger Goodell, all that stuff.

So yeah, half bet on them. I don't trust Goff is really what it comes down to more than anything. I don't trust him in a game like this against a good front seven with half the crowd rooting for the other team. I just want to see it. And if he burns me, so be it. But I like getting the seven when I don't know which team's going to win. I think it's the right move.

Patriots-Chargers. Chargers, probably the most popular underdog pick I can remember in the playoffs in a while. Haven't seen a lot of Patriots momentum. With good reason. Yeah. They deserve it. Can I make the case for the Pats?

Oh, you can. I'm listening. Starting with the fact that the host of this podcast doesn't believe in them? I think that qualifies for them as a nobody believes in us team. Oh! I love it. People have the Chargers penciled in the next round already

and meanwhile they're gaining four points. So why is that? Alright. Well, before last week, since 2002, Pacific and Mountain Time Zone NFL clubs have been outscored 202-56 in the first

half of all 1pm playoff contests on the East Coast. Oh, that's that house. That's a Joe House kind of step. Where'd you get that one? I don't know. I found it online. I think the Ravens last week. I love it. Chargers Ravens screwed that one up last week. But yeah, that's a good one. You know, the old

West Coast playing the East Coast, that is a tough one. And I do this. Look, I go back to the East Coast all the time. I'm always fucked up. I can't fall asleep East Coast all the time. I'm always fucked up. I can't fall asleep till three in the morning. I always wake up at 9.30, 10 o'clock. So 10 o'clock in the morning game,

you're getting up at like, you know, what? 5, 5.30, 5.45. It's freezing. Like that just sucks. So I'm throwing that in there. Well, just a gentle tap the brakes. The Chargers just had that very same thing last week. That's true.

But in that game, they had the benefit of Lamar Jackson and the Ravens coaching staff actually squatting and taking a giant dump on the field. I agree. I agree. So let's talk about the Chargers offense in that game in Baltimore House. 66 plays. How many first downs do you think they had?

66 plays. I'm going to say a dozen first downs. 14 first downs. Rivers, 32 passes for 160 yards. Running game, 33 carries for 89 yards. Offense wasn't that good well maybe it was just they're at Baltimore

it's cold hmm alright Rivers since Halloween he's thrown for over 275 yards how many times house

none twice oh okay I tried when was the last time the Chargers had a 100 yard rusher in a game house

October When was the last time the Chargers had a 100-yard rusher in a game house? October? November 4th. Oh, I was close. How many games in a row have the Patriots won at home, counting the playoffs? Yeah, this is the thing. Tell me.

Oh, hold on. Nephew Kyle is a boner. This is so fucking weird. Tell me. Put that thing away, Kyle. Jesus. Just get on with it. Hold on. Nephew Kyle is a boner. This is so fucking weird. Tell me. Put that thing away, Kyle. Jesus. Just get on with it. Tell me.

How many games in a row have they won at home house? 473. No, 16. It's a lot. Oh, okay. Here's the recipe for them to win. Now, first of all, if you think the team's going to win, you just have to pick them.

I can't worry about the four. I disagree with this, but go ahead. No, when it's four or lower, I'm just... It's not like, I think the Pats are going to win, but I'd like the plus four. Like, I just can't do that. It's one thing if it's Cowboys. I can, that's fine. Well, you can, that's fine.

Yeah. This is a weirdly good matchup for them. The Chargers offense versus the Pats defense. Rivers isn't a guy who scrambles around. That's always been a problem for the Pats. They don't have the overpowering running game. I think there are certain teams out there that could rush for 230 yards against the Pats.

I don't think the Chargers are that team. They've had a lot of success against Rivers, and they have a really good secondary now. I'm pro-Pats secondary. It's the best unit on the entire team. Special teams, Belichick, you know they're bringing the kitchen sink out. This game reminds me of the Ravens game

from a couple years ago that they ended up winning 35 to 31. Edmund pulled the play out of his ass, the double touchdown throw. Where it's just like you kind of left the game thinking the Ravens were probably a little bit better, but the Pats were just the Pats and they were home and it's Belichick and Brady and they figured it out. It has the marks of that. And then you talk about offense. I think they're going to try to run the ball, control the clock, shorten the game,

and just kind of do their thing. And I like the minus four. I'm not going to bet on this, though. Oh, you're not going to bet on it after all that? No, I mean, I'm not putting a full bet. I'll do the 550 to win 500 on it. I want to say, here's what I'm rooting for. Actually, you know what?

I'm canceling that bet because I have another idea that I'll tell you in a second. All right. So I'm going to parlay them with somebody in the next game. Oh, interesting. I can't wait. Yeah. Go ahead. What were you going to say? You mentioned your sort of best case scenario matchup for next week of

New Orleans, Dallas. And it's very rich in terms of the storylines and the storied franchises and all that thing. I personally am rooting for, on the other side, the Patriots against the Chiefs. So that doesn't go against your Colts getting the five. And you've made a very persuasive argument for why the Patriots should win on Sunday. I think Patriots-Chiefs, the passing of the guard, the Mahomes-Brady matchup, Andy Reid, can he finally get over the hump?

Is this the last gasp for Brady and Belichick? I just think it's a very, very, and the Patriots would have to travel to Arrowhead for this. So I just think in terms of my dream matchups for next weekend, that's what I want. The Patriots traveling to Arrowhead is my worst case scenario. You know what I need? I need the Pats to win and I need the Colts to beat the Chiefs and then come to Foxborough. And we've beaten the Colts like a drum.

That's what I need. The Pats have also been very successful against the Chargers over the year. Now here's the case for the Chargers really quickly. It does have a, this is Phil Rivers' kind of a year type of vibe to it. You know, he's, oh my God, the best quarterback not to play in a Super Bowl, all that stuff. They're really good on the road, as has been discussed ad nauseum, mainly because when they're even playing at home, they're on the road.

They're playing in this stupid stadium that half the fans are rooting for the other team. It's a great point. I don't think it really matters where they play. But I do think last week's game made them look better than they were. Because Baltimore was just horrible offensively. Just horrible. And they had just played them 15 days before and figured out kind of the perfect scheme to fluster whatever the Ravens were trying to do.

And the Ravens just didn't audible out of it in time, but you know, they had seven defensive backs out there. Good luck. If you're going to play seven defensive backs against Brady, they'll change on the fly. That's the, that's the big thing with Brady.

You can't do gimmicks against Brady. He'll figure it out. So I don't think it's the same Tom Brady anymore, but I think his brain's the same. Yeah. The only thing I would amplify on that point is and i want to get i want to make sure that melvin ingram is 100 good to go but bosa and melvin ingram that's a that's a different look coming from the chargers that is it's rough from my own

like sight test the fastest uh pass rush in the nfl right. Those two guys are so effing fast that Brady under pressure in the playoffs is kind of a different Brady. I mean, it's the best I could come up with, but I was super impressed by how quickly Bosa and Ingram were in the backfield all game against Baltimore. Well, and then Ingram was the best player in round one, and then Derwin James is the other one.

They have three absolute blue-tripper defensive guys. And I can see how this game could go where the Chargers just dominate the whole game. Believe me, I'm prepared emotionally for it, House. I think they could pressure the hell out of Brady, hit the hell out of Gronk, no running game at all. Pat's on 38, 39. They don't have the same kind of weapons anymore.

I see all of it. Here's what I keep coming back to. If the Pats lose this game, I think that's it for the Belichick-Brady era in a lot of ways. Wow. Why? Because I don't think it gets better there's no road map for this to improve this is basically if they lose this game to the

Chargers we are now in this mode and I saw it happen with the Celtics in 91 and 92 you never know the dynasty is going to end until it ends we saw it happen with the Popovich Spurs what year was that? when they lost to you never know the dynasty is going to end until it ends. We saw it happen with the Popovich Spurs. What year was that when they lost to the Clippers?

Remember that in round one? Oh, yeah. They lost to game seven and the Clippers beat them. And we kind of knew they weren't coming back. It was like, if they come back, it'll be with a new nucleusucleus and Kawhi. Whatever era this is, is over. And I think that will be the legacy.

If the Pats lose at home to the Chargers, I think it'll be an ass-kicking if they lose. And then we'll come out of it and we'll go, this is over. I don't feel like that's going to happen on Sunday. I just don't. I actually think the next Sunday could be when it happens if they have to play in Arrowhead. Yeah, well, I think that

narrative is precisely why I think New England's going to win and it's going to be like a field goal at the end. I think it's going to be tight throughout and I think it will take all of the Belichickian and Brady and powers combined to ward off all of the mojo that Phil rivers and the chargers have going for

them. And I think that they kick a field goal at the very end and then advance and then maybe go get their ass kicked by the chiefs next week. Do you know anyone who's taken the Pats minus four? Have you seen that anywhere? See one person like here's the case for the, that makes me think they, they win a game

where it's like they win 27 to 21 or 27 to 22 or something. And, but the Chargers have the ball with a minute left and they're on like the Pats eight, but somehow they don't even cover. We could be one of those.

I don't know. I just don't feel like I'm down on this team. I see the, I see the finish line. I just don't feel like I'm down on this team I see the I see the finish line I just don't feel like it ends on Sunday I don't know why

now here's one other factor I'm going to be at my daughter's soccer tournament on Sunday I don't know how that factors into it I'm going to be watching this game on my phone on the phone okay I was wondering if the iPad was going to be part of it.

No, I'll have my phone and it'll be done. I'll be able to see the second half. It'll be fine. I'll probably be drinking. I'll bring a flask. Here's what I'm doing for the other game. We've had this happen before, right? Yeah, it's happened.

It hasn't turned out well. It was 2018, Broncos-Pats. Saints-Pats, I'm doing a parlay. That's the second bet. It's minus 105, Saints to win, Pats to win. And, you know, I can't get past the fact that the Eagles only had like 10 points, nine points last week or 10 points with five minutes left in the game. They barely squeezed it out.

I think you need points to beat the Saints. And I don't think they can score enough points. And I think everybody is on their jack. I think the Bears blew that game. I don't think the Eagles were a better team. I think the Bears were a better team, and they just fucked that game up and did a bunch of dumb shit. And the Eagles snuck by,

and now they have all this big dick Nick momentum, and here we go, and this is happening again. And I think the Saints just roll through them. I think the saints are the one really good team right now. I believe in the saints. I agree with that. I, I'm not prepared to lay the eight,

uh, with the saints just because of the one last, uh, gas from big, big dick, Nick, uh, big Nick, Dick,

big Dick, Nick, uh, big Dick, Nick. Um, but. Big Dick Nick. Big Dick Nick. Big Dick Nick. But the real risk for Philly is the track meet, and we already have evidence of that. It was barely two months ago. New Orleans ran them out of the Dome.

New Orleans and the Dome is just such a different team altogether. Their own home Dome. And I was looking for some chinks in the armor. I went to look at their last six games. The only game that was a genuine loss was to Dallas. And all credit to Dallas. That really changed the trajectory of Dallas' season. It was a Thursday night, though.

I don't never count those. You beat me to it. Yeah, I'm with you. I tried to find something about the way the Saints have been playing that would give me a reason to think that they could lose this football game, and I just couldn't come up with it.

The other interesting thing is they have the three best offensive players in the game. Not just two of the three. They have all three. They have Breeze, they have Michael Thomas, and they have the three best offensive players in the game. Not just two of the three. They have all three. They have Breeze. They have Michael Thomas. They have Kamara. And all of those guys will make plays in this game.

The question for me is, can the Eagles score enough to hang? And I don't think they can. I have a lot of respect to how the Eagles, how they turn their season around. I thought it was interesting, though. Trubisky just started to pick on Maddox in the second half of that game. And the announcers started talking about it and like, wow, if they had done this sooner. The Eagles have always been one defensive back short. And I don't know if you can be against the Saints.

They're just going to find whoever that is and attack the living hell out of that guy well and and michael thomas especially there was a a stat that i saw about maddox being especially susceptible to the double move yeah the double move yeah the double move i was going to call it the stop and go because that's what we used to call it on the playground but right the double move michael thomas master of the double move uh and has demonstrated throughout his career. And poor Maddox. I mean, this feels like that kid's going to be out on Toast Island. A couple of playoff manifesto things.

I know you have to go. Don't bet against God puppies or gambling theories from Pakistan. That's rule number two. If Nick Foles wins this game, I'm putting him into rule number two. Don't bet against God puppies, Nick Foles, this game I'm putting him into rule number two don't bet against God puppies Nick Foles are gambling theories from Pakistan that's going he's going in basically betting against Nick Foles is like betting against God but

maybe it's something like quarterbacks who have a nickname big dick like whatever I'm working him into rule two and luscious lips I mean don't forget the lips but where of the everybody believes in us team rule number five him into rule two. And luscious lips. I mean, don't forget the lips. But where have the everybody believes in us team rule number five? That is 100,000%

the Chargers, right? Aren't they the everybody believes in us team? I feel like it. I feel like they have so much momentum. With the Saints too, maybe. That's the only concern with the Saints, honestly. Rule number ten is when in doubt, gravitate toward one pick that would screw over the most gamblers and experts and would definitely

go against the single worst gambler you know that is 100% the Chargers everyone likes the Chargers I'm sorry they just do there's no terrible QB in round 2 there is no scary coach in round 2 other than fuck Jason Garrett's in rule number 13

Andy Reid is as well yes Andy Reid is definitely there rule number 13. Andy Reid is as well. Yes, Andy Reid is definitely there. Rule number 13, before you wager on a team, make sure Marty Schottenheimer, I'm adding his family, or anyone from Marty Schottenheimer's family, Herm Edwards, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Andy Reid, Dan Quinn, John Fox, Jason Garrett, anyone named Mike,

anyone described as Andy Reid's pupil, and anyone with the last name Maura isn't its head coach, I just realized Jason Garrett and Wade Phillips cancel each other out. This is great. So it's okay to lay the points? Yeah. I mean, for Dallas to get the points.

Yeah, so there you go. All right, so here are my picks. 1.1 to win a million on the Colts. A little 550K plus seven Cowboys. And then 1,050,000 to win a million. On the Pats to win, parlayed with the Saints to win. Which one is a guaranteed winner, House? I love the parlay.

I love the Sunday parlay. The OG. I'm going to call it the OG parlay. That's Bree. That's Tom Brady and Drew Bree. At home. Taking us through, getting us at home, and that puts us in such a wonderful position for championship weekend

leading into the Super Bowl. We have the OGs doing their thing. That's what I want to root for, and that's what I want. At this point of the season, I want to gamble on the outcomes that I want. I don't want to hold my nose and do contrarian shit anymore. I just want the outcomes that are best for my viewing pleasure and the OG parlay. I'm all over it.

House of Pleasure, as always. You can hear House on House of carbs his food podcast and then when does golf start get going again here uh i i think we're gonna have it open up coincident with the the tigers debut in the 2019 season he loves tory pines uh sight of his his last major victory so that's's like the third week of January or so. There you go. Any last words for Neff and Kyle? Good word, Neff.

Thank you, guys. He's dating again. Get this out of here. He's still with the old girlfriend. He's got the old girlfriend. They're back. The same one? They're back.

Yeah. I haven't talked to you about this. Kyle, I sent you something in the mail. Really? Go to the mail room. Okay. And I'll talk to you about it. Kyle, I sent you something in the mail. Really? Go to the mail room. Okay. And I'll talk to you about it after you get it. All right.

Will do. All right. Bye, house. Have a good weekend. Thanks, boys. All right. Yeah. Let's have a winning weekend.

Let's do it. All right. We're going to call Alan Sepinwall to talk a little Sopranos. A couple spoiler alerts coming, but nothing too major. By the way, if you haven't watched The Sopranos and you're over like 17 years old, just move. Move to another country. We don't want you. Anyway, here's Hotel Tonight.

Here's a little insider travel secret from our friends at Hotel Tonight. There are tons of empty hotel rooms out there just waiting to be booked. Hotel Tonight has partnered with these awesome hotels to help them sell. They're unsold rooms, which means you get incredible deals. Forget scrolling through never-ending lists. Hotel Tonight shows you a select list of incredible deals at cool hotels. They think you'll love short profiles of each hotel, all the info you need, pictures of

what the rooms really look like. I was just on Hotel Tonight because my daughter's soccer tournament this weekend was debating whether I wanted to stay over on Friday night or not. They always had these little extra whistles. You get like these instant burst deals that expire after 10 seconds. And you can do it by, you can arrange it by price,

high price down to low or budget deals, luxury deals, whatever you want. Hotel Tonight, it is a great app that they keep improving over and over again. Perfect for spontaneous weekend getaways, three-day weekends, business trips, 24-hour trips with your daughter if she plays club soccer in freaking mid-January in Southern California. To start scoring amazing deals in incredible hotels, Go to hoteltonight.com or download the app right now. All right, on the line right now, co-author of The Soprano Sessions,

which is out this week with Matt Zoller-Seitz, Alan Sepinwall, a longtime guest of this program, dating back to the old BS Report days. You were coming on like, what was it, 2008? Yeah, I was still working at the Star Ledger back then. Oh, remember when they had newspapers? I remember newspapers. God.

Anyway, we're not here to talk about newspapers. We're here to talk about The Sopranos, which ironically, by the way, I was gone last week. You had mailed me the book, and it was on my desk. I didn't even see it. I was home Friday night,

and I told the star on my podcast, my wife just had The Sopranos on. They were running a marathon and we ended up watching five episodes. And I honestly had not thought of the show for 12 years since, or 12 and a half, whatever, since it was gone, even though it's on the Mount Rushmore for me. It's weird to say this, forgot how great it was. I have now watched all of season one.

I went backwards, watched the first six or seven was. I have now watched all of season one. I went backwards, watched the first six or seven, then I'd already watched the five. And I really need to revise my list up a wall. I think this might be back to number one. It might've passed the wire again. Where is it for you? It's really, really high. When Matt and I did the TV, the book a few years back, I think we had it second after The Simpsons. but I got to say when I rewatched it to do this book, I had the same reaction, which was, I always loved it. I always knew it was great. I liked it better this time. And you know what I really liked better this time? Gandolfini. Cause it's like, you know, he's great, but you kind of think, all right, well, he's on Mount Rushmore with Cranston with ham,

with somebody else. No, he's on his own mountain. He is so much better even than those guys. It was really extraordinary and a little bit sad to watch because he's not here with us anymore. I had the same feeling and went through the same emotional cycle. I think the biggest shockers for me going through season one again, now I can't wait to watch. I'm going to be watching two a night

until I'm going through, until two in the morning every night. Gandolfini jumped out to me. How great he was. How young he was. He's like, what, 38, 39 in the first season? Something like that? He's skinny.

He's still got some of his hair. Yeah. It's amazing. Just what a loss that was, just that we don't have him and we lost Philip Seymour Hoffman and we've just taken some hits from the great actor

group so that was one thing the second thing that jumped out to me was how fucking funny the show is the show is consistently and genuinely funny and I think as the years pass you kind of I haven't gotten there yet but I just remember going through the cycle thinking White Caps was the best episode.

And that's such a serious, heavy episode. The ending was so serious and heavy. And it's just like you forget, like the show is hilarious. Polly Walnuts is flat out hilarious. Christopher's wardrobe through season one is hilarious. The one-liners, the digs. It's consistently entertaining in a way one-liners, the digs. Oh, it's just,

it's consistently entertaining in a way that I just had kind of forgotten. Like when they do the intervention for Christopher, when he's like got the heroin problem, that's one of the like three or four funniest things ever put on television. Right. Right. The, there is a, in the second episode,

I think it's second episode. They're trying to hunt down somebody who stole a car, who worked at a coffee and espresso shop. And Silvio and Pauly Walnuts go to this place, and Pauly Walnuts starts getting mad that they have taken espresso and coffee from the Italians, and that the Italians should be the one making this. And he goes on this like 35 second

tirade about it. It's so good. It's just, oh man, I just can't, I forgot how much I love the show. And I'm mad that I didn't rewatch it sooner. As you were doing this book, there had to feel like there was a little weight on your shoulders, right? Because there's no book like this. You recap every episode. You have a long interview with David Chase, the creator. This book didn't really exist in the way you guys did it. Did you feel a little tension with that? A little bit, just because A, the show was so important, and B, like you said, it's kind of receded into the past a little bit.

Yeah. Because it's been a while. There've been all these shows that followed up on it, you know, breaking bad, mad men and everything else up to everything that's on Netflix now. And so you worry, like,

is this just going to be some dusty old relic that seems, you know, like it's all these cliches that the business has appropriated since then. And, you know, this was a very important show to Matt and I, we both covered it when we were at the star ledger, which was Tony's newspaper,

and thank God it was great, and thank God Chase was great when we talked to him because he can often be a very guarded guy, and he opened up about a lot to us, including the ending. Yeah. I haven't read that yet. I want to watch the whole show,

and then I want to read the Chase thing afterwards. I've gone through the recaps of what you wrote to where I am kind of rewatching this season. But I think it's interesting with some TV shows that are quote unquote groundbreaking, they end up getting surpassed by the kind of imitators and the people that took whatever they did and they take it to the next level. And I think we've seen that over again. You watch a show like Cheers, which I think is the greatest half-hour traditional sitcom of all time, but it does feel dated now. And I think a lot of people were able to take that medium in all these different ways. And a show like Larry Sanders, which is really the first most important HBO show ever. The first few seasons of

that show, they feel a little dated now. I think the last couple have aged pretty nicely. What's crazy to me with The Sopranos, it's been 20 years. It's actually been 20 years this month and it doesn't really feel dated. It's not like Breaking Bad took what The Sopranos did and pushed it to this whole other level. The Sopranos still holds up at the level it was at and goes toe-to-toe with everything that came after it. I think that's pretty hard to do, and it's been 20 years. What's your feeling on that?

No, I agree. I mean, you can sort of look at it as a period piece, obviously, because of the clothes and the blocky cell phones and everything else. But one of the things that it has in its favor that I think a lot of the shows that have copied it don't quite get is it's not super serialized. Pauly getting upset about this. You know, Christopher gets shot. He has a dream. And so even if you've seen it once, twice, five times before, it still holds up and it's still incredibly rewatchable because you're not just worrying about what happens next, what happens next. If anything, knowing what's coming makes a lot of stuff play better than it did the first time.

Yeah, I agree. And another thing that struck me from season one was how important his mother was. And what an unbelievable, what if that is that the actress, Nancy Marchand, she died before season two. And I don't know if you talked to Chase about this. You must have. How does the show look different if she's just alive for the entire run, what, what happens? Well, I mean, he, he said that it probably would have been a problem anyway, just because like both Livia and junior try to kill Tony at the end of the first season and he survives and eventually he kind of forgives junior, but the idea that he would, he would let both of them be in his life for years and years after this,

it would have been tough to justify if it was two. I think he would have noticed it more because it was just junior. You could sort of accept it. And also junior was hilarious, but it was tough though. Cause Nancy was great. She was. And.

Almost like a, there's, there's no performance like it. That one scene when they take her to the nursing home and she's just eyeballing the lady behind, behind the nursing home and she's just eyeballing the lady behind the desk and she's just death staring her and her face doesn't move. I can't remember, did she win the Emmy for that?

She did not. And I think part of it is because, you know, the Emmys, they vote on a single episode and I don't think any one episode of Livia quite gives you the whole idea. You got to see that gradual, you know, from her just seeming like a dotty old lady to her seeming like this ruthless sociopath who's going to get her son killed.

Yeah. Well, the other great thing about rewatching with the, with all the equipment that we have these days, I can skip over the father Phil scenes. It's like, like, Oh great.

Oh, it's father Phil. Fast forward, going forward Father Phil. Fast forward. Going forward three minutes. I forgot because I had always, my memory was that college when I was watching it in the moment. I was late. I didn't watch the first season in the moment.

And I had my old website at the time and my readers were just killing me that I wasn't watching it. And I was like, all right, fine, I'll watch it. And I remember binging it and getting to the college episode, which is really where I felt like the show fell in place mentally for me. Just the fact he's being somebody's dad and all this stuff that goes into being a dad, but at the same time, he's on this quest to go murder this guy who had turned out the family and was on the lam. But then re-watching that episode, so much of it was Carmela and Father Phil.

And I was like, oh my God. Jeez, oh, now they're going to have more wine? Oh no. What do you think was the right length? What were the number of episodes the Sopranos ended up with? Like 70, 70, 80? Oh my God, I should know this

because I wrote the book. I think it's like, it's either 62 or 80. I think it's 82 my God, I didn't know this because I wrote the book. I think it's like, it's either 62 or 80. I think it's 82. Yeah, I'm going to say it's 82. What do you think the right length of episode should have been? If David Chase could do it all over again, what do you think? Like under the current parameters that we have where you can put out a 10 episode season if you want.

I think it's pretty close. I think there's like, there's definitely some episodes that don't work. And that's the interesting thing when you get into Sopranos versus The Wire is Sopranos is just a more uneven show. It's in the DNA. Some episodes don't work, some characters don't work, and that's fine. I think the only part of the show that just really probably

shouldn't exist or wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't know exactly when it was going to end is the second half of season six when Vito goes to New Hampshire, and some of the other stuff does, because clearly they weren't sure whether it was going to end is the second half of season six, when Vito goes to New Hampshire and some of the other stuff does, because like clearly they weren't sure whether that was going to be the final season when they started. And then they had to figure some things out later and you can tell they're

kind of stalling. And then it's just a lot of Vito. Yeah. My, the other thing that the dream sequence stuff, I don't know where you stand on. And I remember we probably even talked about it on my old podcast. I'm never a huge dreamence fan, just in general.

I think it's kind of a crutch. The Sopranos did it about as well as anybody's done it, but I could argue it's a little heavy. And also, Sal was talking about the therapy sessions. Some of them are great. Some of them, it's like, I remember as the seasons went along, it's like, all right, all right, he's in therapy again. Okay, can we get back to Pauly Walnuts? But for the most part, pretty perfect.

I was shocked by how great, the first season of anything just shouldn't be as good as this first season is. And I think most of the other great shows tend to kind of meander into where they're going to end up being, or it takes you a while to get a grasp of the characters or this one is just coming out of the gate,

hitting home runs. And, uh, I don't know. Is it, is it the greatest first season you think? Quite possibly. It's one of the,

it's sort of like, you know, a rock star's first album where they've've spent their whole life waiting to do this. And they're doing it, and they have all this material, and they're pouring it all out into this one album. A lot of this is based on Chase's relationship with his mother. That's where the idea for the show began. His wife's like, you should make a TV show about you and your mom, and somehow it became a mob show. So he had all these ideas right away away and he never expected it to last.

And so he just put the pedal to the metal and put everything into it. The fact that it's still great after the first season is almost a bigger miracle to me. Yeah. Well, we did a Rewatchables podcast about The Godfather and we talked about how not only was this probably, in my opinion, it's the greatest movie of all time,

but it's certainly one of the most influential pieces of pop culture in the last 50 years. Sean Fennessy argued it was the most influential. But one of the things that made it so unique and so crazy is that it spawns basically the Sopranos. The Sopranos is like the son of the Godfather, and they're very wary of it. Like they constantly, not only do they reference the Godfather and Godfather 2, but they call it

1 and 2. They don't even call it Godfather, you know, and it's so ingrained in the dialogue and even the way that when the kids are starting, the daughter knows pretty, she pretty much knows Tony's in the mob. The son has no idea. But just the Godfather hangar of this whole thing. Did Chase talk about that when you interviewed him? What was funny is he said when he first saw the movie, he didn't like it. He felt disappointed because he had read the book and he'd liked that.

He'd grown up around wise guys in Jersey. And he's since come to love it. But I was shocked to hear him say that he didn't like it the first time. But what's really interesting about the relationship between Godfather and The Sopranos is how, like, Tony so desperately wants to be, you know, a Corleone or something, and he knows that he's not. He's, you know, he's the strip mall Godfather. He's out in the suburbs, and the real serious wise guys are across the river or over in Brooklyn and he will never be quite like them. And that's, that's, you know, a fundamental part of the frustration of his existence.

Yeah. Well, and this point's been made a million times by a million people, but this was really the first antihero. I mean, we, we'd seen it in movies. We'd never seen somebody pull it off as well as they pulled it off in a TV show. Oz is like the lost HBO show, and that came before The Sopranos, but hit some of this too, where you had just these really evil people that you're weirdly rooting for because you've spent time with them. And The Sopranos, I kind of forgot how awful the characters were the first season, how just terrible people they were, you know, especially Christopher. Christopher is pretty much just the all-time low-life terrible person in season one.

But I know where he's going, so I'm rooting for it. But at the same time, like, man, they really pushed the envelope. Did Chase talk about, did he get notes on you're taking this too far? People aren't going to like these people? Not really, because it was HBO and they were still new at making shows and they didn't have to answer to advertisers or the FCC or anything. And so they didn't really care. The only real fight he had was very early on in college. They didn't want him to kill Febby. They thought, you know, you can't do that. You'll lose the audience. That's the bridge too far. And Chase said, no, no, if he doesn't do this, you know,

he's, he's BS and the audience will not believe in him. You know, he, he has to go there. And he was right because that's the episode where everybody really started talking about the show. Right. What, uh, what does TV look like if The Sopranos never happens? I have no idea because, you know, you say The Godfathers, you know, the most influential bit of pop culture of that part of the 20th century. Sopranos is the most influential scripted TV show, I would say, since I Love Lucy. Like, everything about scripted TV, and especially drama, but also comedy in a lot of ways, in 2019 owes itself to what The Sopranos started doing in 1999. Serialization, antiheroes, narrative complexity, moral complexity, more adventurous filmmaking, you know, all of these things that, you know, we were told for decades TV could not do,

audiences would not accept. They accepted all of them with this show. And as a result, that's what led to, you know, there now being 500 different scripted shows being produced every year. And good female characters too, right? Even Carmela, even in the pilot, he's getting the cat skin. And they're arguing and she's like, well, that's why you're going to hell, Tony. And they just throws the absolute off the top rope dagger at him. And then her role becomes more and more important as it goes along.

Meadow, surprisingly crucial in the first season. And I got to say, AJ, who became probably the show's biggest liability as the seasons went along. AJ is actually pretty good in the first season, too. As the years passed, he became kind of the late 1990s Larry Johnson of the whole thing. Is that fair? Late 1990s Larry Johnson went to an NBA finals Is that fair? You're a longtime Knicks fan? Late 1990s Larry Johnson went to an NBA finals, Bill. So did A.J. Soprano.

He played for multiple titles. The four-point play against Indiana, man. A.J. never did anything that good, except maybe when he farted while talking to Meadow. Yeah, that's right. And challenging the school bully, that whole thing. What was the biggest revelation you had as you worked on this book? Well, obviously Chase talking about the ending,

which I won't get into with you because you want to get there, was the big one because we didn't expect him to do it and he kind of blurted something out and it went from there. But here's a little factoid that I never knew before. Remember Eugene Ponicorvo, the guy in the Members Only jacket who hangs himself in season six.

Yeah. That actor was originally cast to play Ralphie. Oh, wow. Cause he was an old friend of Gandolfini's and Gandolfini said, Hey, you know, you should try my buddy.

And they realized it wasn't a good fit. And so they recast him in this other role and they brought in Joey pants. Jesus. So I don't want to, I don't want to spoil whatever revelation Chase had about the final, but I'll just ask you this. Did you have more clarity on the final after whatever revelation he had? Oh, I had a lot more clarity.

Really? Yes. Oh, man, Nephew Kyle. He's squirming in his seat now. Really? Well, I will say this for Nephew Kyle and for everybody else who's listening. You will get a lot more clarity about what it means, but you will not necessarily get more clarity about what happened. I've gone 180 on the final.

Now that 13 years have passed and I know my cable didn't go out, I actually like the final. And I think it's really cool. Oh, wow. That's great. And it's really hard. It's just so indelible, that whole scene and Meno trying to park and just everything, the guy in the members-only jacket, the song. And when you hear that song, it's just hard not to think of the Sopranos. And that song was an iconic song anyway. And now it's doubly iconic. I don't know. I'm

okay with it. I still feel like they should have kept the HBO logo on when it went black would be my one nitpick. Just to let people know it wasn't broken. Yeah, my reaction shouldn't be, oh, my God, how did the power go out right there? And then not realize that was just the end of the show. This was the argument, Bill, that you made the very first time I was on one of your podcasts.

Really? See, we brought it full circle. It's nice. So Tony's obviously the if we did a rewatchables of the entire Sopranos. Tony's who won the show is Tony. Who do you think is the number two MVP? If you do know the voting, who's the

number two MVP of the show? I think it's probably Carmella because if you look at all the shows that came after it that imitated in some way, everybody hates the wives on all those shows. They hate Skylar White. They hate Betty Draper. They hate all of them. And nobody really hates Carmela

despite the fact that, you know, she doesn't get along with Tony and she disapproves of a lot of what he does. And that's a testament to how great Edie Falco was and how well they wrote that character. Yeah, I think that's fair. I would go with that too. I got to say though, you know, it's funny.

My wife said this when we were watching it. She was saying, she always has this thing about how these people become her friends, these shows that we watch. Like she, Sex and the City, I remember the first movie that came out and she was like, I got the first movie that came out and she was, she was like, I got to go. These are my friends. It's like, you've never met these people.

What are you talking about? She's like, these are my friends. I've spent a lot of time with them. And I felt that way with The Sopranos. And she said that, she was like, it's nice to have, nice to have our friends back. You know, I feel like Pauly Walnuts, he's in your life for 82 hours and then he's just gone and that's it. You know? And I think that was the big thing for me with the rewatch. So now I think I gotta bang out all the classics and really

size them up with some perspective. I gotta do Sopranos. I gotta do The Wire. I gotta do Breaking Bad. I gotta do Thrones. And what's the fifth one? There's a fifth one, not lost. Deadwood. See, not Lost. Deadwood. See, I never watched Deadwood.

Never watched Deadwood. I've been saving it like a bottle of 1994 Cabernet in the back of the wine cellar. The movie is coming up later this year, so that's a good excuse to do it. There is another classic, though. We're missing one. There's another one there is another classic though. We're missing one. There's another one.

When the Mount Rushmore TV gets discussed, it's always the same few. And then there's one, there's one other drama. What are we, well, I would say the shield, but you've got that whole thing about chick list being short.

So that doesn't qualify. Yeah, I know that's been, well, Oh, mad men. Yes, of course.

So that's the big five. And if we were trying to make a Mount Rushmore, I think, and you had to pick four, it'd be tough. If you had to do Sopranos, Mad Men, Thrones, Breaking Bad, what's the fifth? I don't know if Thrones would be on my Mount Rushmore. Wow. I think I agree with you.

I like Game of Thrones, but it's a show that's sort of great in moments, but not nearly as great overall as most of the other ones. We go process by elimination. I can't take off Sopranos. Nope. I can't take off The Wire. Nope. And I can't take off Breaking Bad. So that last spot is basically between Thrones and Mad Men. And I would really have to put a lot of time and thought and energy into thinking about how I feel about that. I do think Mad Men would be a really good rewatch. And I'm excited to do that one.

Especially those first couple seasons. It's sad though that we have no... Thrones is going to go away June. We have no show that I feel like has a chance to be Mount Rushmore worthy. Do you? Do you feel like there's a show out there that has a chance? Right now in terms of dramas, I'm not sure, but I feel like there's some really crazy stuff happening at half hours. Like Atlanta, you know, you could call it a half hour drama for sure. And what it's been doing so far has been pretty extraordinary. Yeah. Half hour is different though. Fair. I almost feel like there's a half hour dramedy category that has like Larry Sanders and Atlanta and those types of shows. That's like it's, it's own mountain. And then the traditional sitcoms,

I I've been really surprised by what kind of legs the office has and how it's kind of become the show of this generation in a lot of ways. Yeah. We had some friends of the family over and like all, all the kids got together and they were watching a bunch of offices and a bunch of parks and rec. So yeah, that's, that's definitely going on to the next generation. And I think the good places is going to be like that as well. And, and I've said this before, but I think the streaming thing, one of the great things about streaming those half hours is they're really 22 minutes if it's a network show. And when you watch three offices

in basically an hour, you know? And so I noticed like my daughter just ripped through The Good Place. Like she finished it in a week over Christmas break. And the other show she watched in like eight days, which I was shocked by, was The New Girl. She loved The New Girl. Now she's 13 years old. I don't know how much that has to do with it. But she watched like 70 episodes of The New Girl. And she was always doing something else as she was watching it.

But 22 minutes of pop, you're banging out three in an hour. It's not as daunting as it is. Even something like The Sopranos, re-watching it, the episodes are like between 45 and 50 minutes. That's basically two hours. That's what it would take to watch a movie now. So if you watch Three Sopranos instead of some crappy movie, I would recommend the three Sopranos.

Yeah. And, and just get back to the Mount Rushmore thing for a second. I would say right now, there's not anything that's a candidate, but there've been, there've been things recently, like the Americans just wrapped up.

That's not far off of Mount Rushmore, the leftovers, which HBO did. Come on. You know, I would put its best seasons against some of the better things that the Mount Rushmore. The leftovers, which HBO did. Come on. I would put its best seasons against some of the better things that the Mount Rushmore shows did.

Stop. Stop it. No. I will not stop, Bill. No. No. What about Succession? All right.

See, now you're going to get mad because I did not like Succession. Yeah, but you only stopped watching after like three episodes. No, no, no, no. And then you got stuck in your corner where you were like, I've already dispatched the show, I'm out

and I can't admit I was wrong. I get it. No, I stopped watching after two or three, then Andy and Chris and the rest of the world kept saying, no, no, no, it gets better after episode five. So I watched episode five, didn't get better. They said, no, no, you got to get to episode six. Got to episode six, didn't get better. They're like, it gets better at episode seven

and at that point I was out. This just hurts my feelings. I don't know. I don't know what I'll say. Not every show is for everybody, Bill. It's okay. I don't know what to say. It was, that show and Billions have been my two favorites of the last couple years.

I just really enjoy watching them. Billions is really fun. I don't know if it's a great show, but it's entertaining in a way that a lot of the quote unquote, you know, great shows these days, you know, never managed to be. So I really appreciate that. Billions is James Harden. It knows exactly what it is and it's going to play its game and you're along for the ride and it's going to take threes and get to the free throw line. And that's what it does. It's good. Yep. It's a good show. Um, good luck with the book. I'm excited to, uh, to really, really fully dive into it as soon as, um,

as soon as my rewatching binge is done. And then, uh, we can read you on Rolling Stone as well. Yes, you can. Website and magazine. Yeah. Website and magazine. I'm back in print. It's been an adjustment. An adjustment in what way? No, just, I've got to deal with word counts. I've got to deal with deadlines. I'm back in print. It's been an adjustment. An adjustment in what way? I've got to deal with word counts. I've got to deal with deadlines. I've got to write. The magazine comes out once a month so I have to write everything a month in advance. So I'm always having to call and beg for screeners

because you know how TV works. Stuff is not always ready that early. Yeah. Word counts. Jesus. Remember those? Alright, congrats on... Some people in Hollywood still really care about being in print. I know. As evidenced by the whole Entertainment Weekly phenomenon, they still get covers of every relevant everything. There was one show I was struggling to get in time, and then the director heard that Rolling Stone was interested in reviewing it.

He said, oh, I want us to be in Rolling Stone, and the director heard that Rolling Stone was interested in reviewing it. And he said, Oh, I want us to be in Rolling Stone. And like the next day I got all the episodes. Wow. Yeah. See Prince not dead. That's nice. Alan Sepinwall,

a pleasure as always. Best of luck with the book. I can't wait to finish it. Thank you, Bill. I really appreciate that. All right. Before we go,

I wanted to just quickly call my dad to gauge his temperature for the Pats game this weekend. Before we do that, the True Detective After Show, it's called Flat Circle. It's on The Ringer's YouTube, Twitter, characters the cultural context, the leads true time cases that might mirror what's going on, check it out The Flat Circle a true detective after show all on the Ringer platforms, alright dad you have like 3 minutes, how worried are you about this Patriots game on a scale of 1 to 10?

An 8 probably An 8, why isn't it a 10? An 8, probably. An 8? Why isn't it a 10? Well, because I'm still optimistic that we're going to win, but I mean, an 8 is very high for me in terms of usually this is a walkthrough for us, this first round after we've had the bye. And it should be if we hadn't had that ridiculous loss to Miami and we should be playing Indianapolis, although I think I'd still be worried about Indianapolis as well.

We're just not a very strong team, comparatively speaking, as you and I have talked many times to other years. I talked myself into it. I picked us just to win. I didn't pick the minus four, but I did a parlay with the Pats and the Saints. Made the whole case.

I'm shocked that the line is four, by the way. I know we're home and everything, and it's going to be 20 degrees, but we don't have any forecast of precipitation. I was hoping we would, but it's going to be really cold and windy. That's good for us. These Chargers are living in San Diego and LA. We don't like the cold weather here in Southern California. Well, I know.

I mean, you were just out here and your family was walking around in 22-gig weather in sweaters. I mean, you guys don't, the California people aren't used to this weather. Was that a dig? I felt like you just took a dig at your entire family. Excuse me? It felt like a dig directed at your you just took a dig at your entire family just now. Excuse me? It felt like a dig directed at your entire family including all of your heirs.

No, a dig at the parents for how they take care of the kids. Yeah, I'm really worried. You know, an eight,

I could give it a nine, I guess. I'd maybe give it a six if if it hadn't disappeared after with two games left in the season. Oh, Gordon? Yeah.

If Gronk wasn't walking around like... Gronk looks my age, the way he walks around. I don't know. You know, we've rallied and won these games in the past. It's kind of funny up here, by the way. They keep showing on the sports at night, the different channels, Phillip Rivers and his family. And he's got these eight beautiful kids.

And he's a philanthropic character. He's got a kid on the way. He looks like this great guy. It's hard to root against him. Yeah, it is. And this is kind of his moment where he's never made the Super Bowl.

And like Breeze versus Rivers, you can almost see all the storylines coming to that one. Same draft. Not same draft, but traded Breeze after their Rivers-Eli Roethlisberger draft to create the spot for Rivers, and now they're playing each other. You can see it. I can totally see it happening.

Yeah, and you can see it up here that we don't know much about this team either. You know, we've played other teams, and then we see them again in the playoffs, so we played them last year. But this team is a real've played other teams and then we see them again in the playoffs. We played them last year. This team is a real unknown to most of us. We don't get them much on TV. It's obvious that they have a good pass rush.

They move their defensive ends around which scares us to death because you and I keep talking about Brady and how he sees that pass rush coming and dumps the ball on the ground. And he's always looking at his first option, not his second or third option.

Things are different. But it doesn't sound like you think we can win. Kyle, does he sound confident to you? None of us really seem confident. You just got confident today, it feels like. I'm excited. I think we can win if we don't have any turnovers and we get a couple of

turnovers. I think it's going to take that kind of game. I wish I was more confident that we could run on this team. Yeah. You know, I watched what they did last week and they basically took their linebackers out of the game. I don't know if they can do it against us,

but I'm sure they're going to come up with something creative. And you and I just kind of, every time Michelle runs the ball and first time he gets hit, he falls on the ground. That's not very encouraging. Well, maybe he'll be good this game. Maybe he'll be good this game. Cold weather, low to the ground. This could be the Sony breakout game.

Plus, your boy Lamar, you complained all year that we didn't take Lamar and then Lamar completely shit the bed in the playoffs. So maybe this will swing it. Lamar sucked last week and Sony's going to be awesome this week. Lamar almost pulled that game out at the end. Oh, stop it. That game was over.

Come on. I didn't want Lamar to be the starting quarterback of his rookie year. That guy needs two to three years to develop. I think Baltimore threw him to the wolves. The Ravens threw him to the wolves. So I don't blame Lamar. I blame the team for thinking that he could carry them to the promised land.

You sound like the ringer in NFL slack. It was like they're all blaming the coaches. Let Flacco take the hits. I said this. We'll leave on this. I said to House, I picked the Pats to win. I don't know if they're going to cover, but I think they win. And for me, it comes down to if they lose this game,

I really feel like the Belichick-Bradier is over. And that's it. And you and I were there the last couple years of Bird and McHale and Parrish, and especially 92 when we had that series against the Cavs. The Bulls were waiting for us. Game four. Game four up 2-1. Had a chance to go up 3-1.

We're up like four or five late. We score. Mark Price gets it, takes it full length of the court, full court layup with like a minute left. Cut it to two right away. We had the crowd.

We had so much momentum. And I feel like that play alone probably ended the, then they ended up beating us in OT and they ended up winning in seven. And when we lost that series, we were kind of like, this is over? Because we knew Bird wasn't coming back. And the team that they had, it just was like,

this is going to become something different now. You could kind of feel it in the moment. And I think if the Chargers win in Foxborough with the Pats 16 straight, all that stuff, I think that's it. And it's been an unbelievable run. It's been two decades. I'm not complaining. It's just like, it's hard to imagine us coming back from that

because we don't have the young talent. Well, that's certainly a discussion up here. Is this the end of the Bill and Brady dynasty? But the other element is we have nobody in waiting if it is, and if Brady is finished. Yeah. And that's a scary thought. We see all these other teams that they go through a rebuilding process.

We've never gone through a rebuilding process since these guys have hooked up. Right. That would be really tough for New England fans to... Nobody feels bad for us, just for the record. Not one person. No, I know that. The rest of the country does. We're the greatest run.

We should never win again after this. We should go 4-12 every year for 40 years. But, not that I want to, but you know what I mean. No, it was an unbelievable run. My thing is, I don't think it ends at home because I think if they do lose this week, I don't think it ends at home. Because I think if they do lose this week, I do feel like that might be the end.

And if it ends, it's not going to be. I think the crowd will rally. I don't know. I just have faith in whatever. You asked me how worried I was. You didn't ask me who I was picking. Oh, no, I know I didn't. I'm worried on a scale of 8 out of 10. I know who you're picking. You pick the Pats every time. I'm picking the Oh, no, I know I didn't. I'm worried on a scale of eight out of 10. Yeah, but you pick us.

I know who you're picking. You pick the Pats every time. I'm picking the Pats to win. Yeah. I'm picking Indianapolis to upset Kansas City. Yeah. I'm picking us to host the AFC Championship game next Sunday when I'm out in California watching it with my family.

And we're on to maybe one final Super Bowl. So how's that? Oh, yeah. We should mention. That was the other reason I was calling. Your brother Bob turned 70 today. He's coming out next week to see us. My brother Bob turned 70.

I called him. I welcomed him to a very select club because not everybody gets to join. Yeah. If you know what I mean. So he's not happy about it. He was complaining about the nasty cards he'd been getting, the messages left on his voicemail. I hope you called him and said something.

I'm calling him after we do this podcast. We should mention you come from an Irish Catholic family where you were born at the end of November in 1947, and Bob was born literally 13 months later, right? Or 12 months? Yeah, 13 months later. 13 months and like a week later. It's pretty close.

And Chuck was born 12 months after that, by the way. Yeah, well, the Irish know how to reproduce. And we never got the attention we should have gotten because we're so many kids. Yeah. And here you are an only child and you get so much attention. Well, so Uncle Bob, you got married early and you had me. And Uncle Bob was out there as a bachelor.

And I'm going to tell this story because he's 70 and it's a great story. When we were living in Chestnut Hill, Bob moved to Fort Lauderdale for a couple years. Yeah, yeah. And was really having a a couple of years. Yeah. Yeah. And was really having a good time, Kyle. Yeah. Yeah. Like really having a good time.

It was like bartending. He's his mid twenties. Handsome guy, my uncle Bob, handsome guy. And at one point sent a postcard to my dad, which I opened cause it was in the mail. And,

and he had this whole thing. Here's I'm doing is like, I met this new girl. And then he put in parentheses, Bill, 36, 24, 36, exclamation point. And I was like, six. And I was like, what does that mean? And I just badgered you until you told me what that meant.

And from that point on, Uncle Bob was the coolest person in my life. Cool. That he's for the 36, 24, 36. God bless the 70s. But anyway. It wasn't intended for you to open that book. It wasn't intended for me.

Yeah, it wasn't intended for me. So anyway, Uncle Bob, great run. Then eventually he got married in the early 80s. And you're going to see him next weekend because you invited him to L.A.? Well, he might not come after I told the 36, 24, 36 story. It was a famous Simmons family story. Actually, he might come because he understands that in California, every woman is able through surgery to have those measurements.

We're off the rails. I also, I wore sneakers to his wedding. I refused to wear brown shoes. You did, and we have that picture for posterity. I'm going to post that on Instagram as I wish him a happy 70th. We should blow it up. That could be a present to him for his birthday. Well, he was also a phenomenal basketball player.

I learned whatever I learned about how to play basketball, playing with him and Chuck and all the brothers. But he was the point guard. He was. I'm talking to him past tense. He still plays, even though he has two new knees. He has two robotic knees and he still is

planning to beat your wife in tennis with those robotic knees. He used to babysit for me when you were working. He would play tennis and I would be at the net with the rally and I would just screw up the rallies by at the net and jump in like, like his doubles partner and not realizing how annoying that probably was to everybody. But again, I was the name of the

only child. I can't apologize. I, I just look back and I try to learn how to be a better person. But yeah, uncle Bob, 70th birthday. He's the best. And, uh, I look forward. I hope you're right, man. It would be awesome. If, if we was Colts at Pat's next week and we're all watching it together,

that would be exciting. All right, dad, I'll call you over the weekend. If that, if it happens that way, I tell Kyle that he doesn't have my chair next week, next Saturday for that game.

Oh yeah. Kyle, you get to watch all the uncles. Cool. Am I standing? There's a, there's a lot. We'll squeeze. It'll be fine. We'll squeeze in. All right, dad, you get to watch with all the uncles. Cool. Am I standing? There's a lot of couch. No, we'll squeeze in. There's a lot of couch in there.

It'll be fine. We'll squeeze in. All right, Dad, I'll talk to you over the weekend. All right, talk to you. Okay, bye. All right, thanks to Joe House. Thanks to Alan Sepinwall.

Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Flat Circle, our new True Detective after show. It is available

on all the Ringer platforms right after True Detective ends on Sunday night. Thanks to Hotel Tonight. They show you top-rated hotels with unsold rooms. They make it easy to book your stay at an amazing rate. You can book in advance. It's perfect for spontaneous weekend getaways, three-day weekends, whatever you want.

Start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels. Go to hoteltonight.com or download the app right now. And thanks to SimpliSafe, they believe nothing should come between you and protecting your home. They've gotten rid of the reasons not to get home security. No contract, no price markups, no installation windows. You don't have time for that stuff. It's engineered to do one thing brilliantly, protect you. Get a jump on protecting your home at simplisafe.com slash BS. That is SimpliSafe for two I's, simplisafe.com slash BS. Enjoy the weekend and for the love of God, go Pats. I don't have A few years With him On the wayside

On the front side Of the river I don't have A few years