The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Bullsh*t Week, Million-Dollar Picks, and Judd Apatow | With Joe House and Benjamin Solak

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to react to a bunch of NBA 'Media Day' quotes (2:14), then Bill talks with The Ringer's Benjamin Solak about NFL Week 4 matchups including gambling sway aways, favorite underdogs (28:39), and more, followed by Bill's Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 4 (1:13:31). Finally Bill talks with Judd Apatow about his daughter's role in HBO's 'Euphoria,' the comedy film run of the 2000s, some of their favorite documentaries, Judd's new film 'Bros,' and more (1:17:38). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Benjamin Solak, and Judd Apatow Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mack Jones is ripped. Matt Patricia is calling plays. The Celtics are title favorites. And the Ringer has a new Boston show. I'm Brian Barrett, host of Off the Pike, the show covering all things Boston sports. I'll have shows multiple times a week covering your favorite teams and with your favorite Ringer and local guests. Plus, maybe Bill will stop by to rant about the Sox. Follow Off the Pike with me, Brian Barrett, now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell

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FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game

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Please visit RG-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I popped on a couple of Ringer pods this week. Did a hottest take about American actors. Go check that out. I did the rewatchables with Chris and Sean.

We did two parts, four plus hours of Boogie Nights. I did the Prestige TV podcast with Joanna Robinson. We talked about Netflix's Dahmer show, which we both liked, but trying to figure out is this just, they're going to be making serial killer content for the rest of our lives. And then on Friday, I'm going to be in the town with Matt Bellany and it is a TV topic will be the hint, but that will go up at some point on Friday. So that's everything I'm doing coming up on this podcast. Joe House and I are going to talk about NBA media day quotes at the top. Peter Schrager is off this week because he's in London for the London game, which we're going to

talk about with Ben Solak. So he's out. House took his spot. Schrager's come back next week. Solak coming on later to talk about the million dollar picks. We got to write the ship on million dollar picks. Two losing weeks out of three. We're going to win it back this week. And then last but not least, the one, the only Judd Apatow talking about his new movie, Bros, about what it's like to be a celebrity dad for somebody who's actually famous now. And a whole bunch of comedy stuff, movie stuff, George Carlin. This was really good. So this is basically a two-part podcast jammed into one part, but I think it's pretty high level. I'm excited about it. Let's bring in some Pearl Jam. All right, Joe House is here.

I gave you barely any prep. We were taping this on a Thursday. What do you know about the segment we're about to do? Because I'm about as excited for this segment as I've been for anything, maybe in my entire life. You shared six words with me, and it's not, I'm ready to fuck now, Jack. Those were not the six words?

No. But they were. Wait, that's anyway. Yeah. It has to do with quotes, NBA preseason quotes, something like that. Yep. That's what we did. I spent during the media days for the three days, I was scouring Hoops hype and any article

I read. And anytime there was some sort of quote, I just threw it in a Google doc. And what we're going to do is I'm just going to read you the quotes and we're going to react. And I think we could go one to 10 on a scale of, are we buying with one being a, we are not buying this 10 being, Hey, I'm kind of buying this. Oh, so they're, they're all real. There are no fake ones. We're not playing the magic Johnson game. We're not playing the magic Johnson game. i'll come up with a fake one just to just to keep you honest give you the shocker i don't need any more of that i have plenty of that in my life quote number one this is about james harden believing he's back to MVP form. Quote, I've always said that if my conditioning

can be level with my skillset, my IQ, and the work I put in, it's MVP. Did he really say that? These are all real quotes. You didn't start with a fake one. I am not making up quotes. So I have a couple of questions. One, doesn't he make like 40, $42 million a year? I thought your first question was going to be, has he always said that? I've always said, you've always said, is that right? Have you? Find me another time that he said that. Nothing makes me happier and brings me more delight in the end of september early oct or beginning of october than an nba superstar making at least 35 million a year congratulating himself for being in shape in front of a bunch of media writers is my favorite they literally have one job your one job is stay in shape you have no other jobs in james harden's defense this is

the first team that he's not prepared to quit on in three years so let's let's you know let's think about it at the beginning of the season right he's got a little hop in a step he's not gonna quit on that he's got look he knows where his his most comfortable booth at delilah's the the you know he knows where that is like he's built in everything that that that that will lead to to sustain success this season and and he decided to go ahead and cut down on the chicken wings for two months. That's great. Congratulations.

No late night munchies for James this year. Well, he's back to MVP form. Congrats, James. Next one. This is DeAndre Ayton being asked about if him and Monty Williams

have moved on since their playoff loss last year and them almost leaving. And DeAndre Ayton said he hasn't talked to Williams, quote, at all ever since the game, meaning game seven. So they have not discussed anything with one another since they lost game seven to Dallas. And then someone asked if he was happy

and he said, quote, yeah, I'm all right. When I'm between those lines now, I just work. I'm not playing for myself. I have an organization across my chest and a name on my back I have to represent. I'm just here to work, man. Your thoughts? Look, over the course of the summer, we were doing some forecasting of how the league might be shaping up the post free agency and post the draft. I think I was pretty early on in there advancing the view. I believe Phoenix is in a fall mode, potentially a free fall mode. I mean, I'm on their unders.

Their total is already 12 games less than they won last year. It's still too high for me. I don't have them over 50 wins. I think this has all the hallmarks the makings of an utter and complete disaster and you know i i i commend them for everything that they did last season it would be hard enough for them just to to to get back to the level that they were at last season when they were taking care of business regular season wise after the way they lost in the playoffs that's always that's a mark it leaves a mark when you lose that way it's a confidence uh sapper it takes away your your your

swag they had swag all season and then they went swagless like just getting that back is hard enough but all the other stuff that's going on cameron johnson has i mean uh yeah kim johnson hasn't been extended yet uh jay crowder debated. Oh, and they don't have an owner. Right. This is selling the team. A lot of turmoil. I'm just here to work, man. I'm just going to say that

anytime any Spotify executive reaches out to me for the next couple months. I'm just going to drop that on them. I have the same bad sign. So two weeks, a week from next Tuesday, you, me, and Rosillo

are doing our Over Under pod. October 11th. Tease it. Mark it down. Doing it in person. And I have a feeling none of us are going to be too enthused about the Phoenix Suns.

Next one. Shea Gilgis-Alexander was asked whether there might be a way he might want to get out of OKC since he's in Rebuilding Project 3. Quote, I know what I signed up for when I signed a five-year extension, and I don't think we're going to be losing for much longer.

I believe in this team. I think I believe him. I think I'm like a nine out of 10 on that one. Yeah, it makes sense. How great of a situation is it for him? Like pressure-free, continue to build your value across the league. Get some stats.

Get some stats. Put up a 24, 6-6 a game. Know that if there's, at whatever juncture they decide to go full tank, he has that to look forward to two months before the season ends. With that said, I think by December there's going to be a ton of trade rumors about him.

But I just wanted to get him on the record. He's a tremendous asset. And by the way, that's a great quote from a guy who's got his head on his shoulders correctly. Markeith Morris, who's on the Nets now, had some thoughts about the Nets Kevin Durant drama. He said, broke up with my wife a couple times. We still married. That was his take on Kevin Durant and the Nets.

Basically saying, hey man, people go through some stuff, but we're all back, we're all here. I actually thought that was a pretty good way to put it. They had some rocky moments. If they were a married couple, Durant definitely moved out. He definitely started hooking up with his personal trainer and then maybe moved back four months later and slept in the guest room for a month. But now I think the Nets and Durant

are in the same bed, at least for a little while. Do I think they're going to stay there? No, but I think for now they're okay. Okay. I'm fine with all of it. I won't quibble with any aspect of any of it. Other than, well, I'm not going to quibble. The most believable part of all of it is that Markeith broke up with his wife a couple of times. That's very believable. Wait a second. This was actually a quote from Joe House, not Markeith Morris. I got that wrong. Broke up with him a couple of times. We still married. My bad. It was Joe House. Sorry, Markeith. That was before I was married. Here's Steve Nash on KD requesting his firing.

Quote, families go through things like this. You go through adversity. You go through disagreements. I guess my only quibble is calling the Nets a family because if that's a family, that's about as dysfunctional ass of a family as we've had. I mean, I can't even come up with an equally dysfunctional family. Like, what's the equivalent? Not the Kardashians because they're all unified around that ass and that money.

My dad's family? I don't know. Sorry, dad. Why would you do that to your dad? That's not very nice. Just wanted to make sure he's listening. I actually don't think families go through like this. I've never seen a situation in the history of the league

where somebody requested the firing of his coach and GM and demanded a trade twice. It feels like more than a disagreement, but I think I was really impressed with how KD handled all the questions. And it was like, this happened, but now we're here and just kind of kept it moving forward. Whatever.

Here's, here's a fun one just to mix it up. Dwayne Casey on the Eastern conference. This is the toughest I've seen the East in a long time in the last 12 years. I think I'm a 10 out of 10 on that. Cause I agree with Dwayne Casey. I was trying to come up.

It's good. Like your shit ass wizards team probably would have been like a five seed seven years ago. It's all, all, all very, all too accurate. All too true.

Yeah. I think the East is legit nine deep. I mean, Charlotte's dropped out. We don't know what we're going to get out of the Knicks, but a bunch of teams have improved. I kind of like the Knicks. Is it okay if I kind of like the Knicks this year?

I think you just have to, you just have to I kind of like the Knicks this year I think they're going to be deep you just have to believe in something relating to Julius Randle that I'm not prepared to believe that's all you might believe they're benching them the teams that definitely seem to have a little stink on them would be Charlotte Orlando's probably

a year away even though I think they're going to be super fun to watch other than that Detroit's got professional basketball players in their team. They stole Bogdanovich. Utah's like, we need another white guy. Can he have long hair? Detroit's like, cool, we got Kelly Olenek. Danny's like, I drafted Kelly Olenek. Call it

in. Call it into the league. Pacers are out, right? Oh, and Pacers. Yeah, that's the other one. Here's Sean Marks on Kyrie Irving. He committed. He understands. In order to get what he wants in free agency, he's going to have to show commitment out here. We're going to see a very determined Kyrie. I'm going to agree to disagree on that one. He committed. I thought he was going to say a felony, a team felony,

another team felony. He's murdered the team. It's the fifth consecutive year that Kyrie Irving has murdered the team. He committed another team felony and the season hasn't even played one game yet. I like that he thinks free agency is going to be the big carrot to wave in front of Kyrie Irving. Kyrie Irving was last a free agent during the 2019 Celtics season, which was one of the unhappiest seasons in the history of the franchise. 99% because of Kyrie Irving, who was about to be a free agent. There's no such thing as a carrot that you can wave in front

of Kyrie Irving. It would have to be made out of uranium and sage. It would have to be smoking. It was smoking and have something to do with the core of the earth. The flat earth, yeah. It's a flat earth thing.

All right, we found out this. This is from OG Ananobi. He's now OG. It's now dots after the O and after the G. What? It's not OG. It's not just the letters OG. Now there's little periods between each one. Oh, gee.

Well, guess what? You should start calling him that so you don't have to pronounce his last name any longer. Ananobi? That was the best one. You got it right. You just killed it. You crushed it. I don't know why you have to speech dyslexia shame me. Speech shame me?

Why are you speech shaming me? I have speech dyslexia. OG explained the change like this. Just a change? Yeah, nothing serious. It used to be O dot G dot. So just going back to that. I just noticed that.

It's okay. It's all good. I'm not mad about people getting it wrong. Look, I don't know what to tell you. I'm very confused now. What happened? I guess it used to be O dot G. But then just became O.G. But now he's O.G.

Not again. So what am I supposed to do with that? I just don't know what to do. When you're writing his name in a text, when you're like, I like the over for O.G. and an O.B. points today to combine with the Raptors, just put the dots in the O.G. I refuse. I'm not going to do it. OK, next up. This is one of my favorites on the OG. I refuse. I'm not going to do it. Okay.

Next up, this is one of my favorites of the week. I'd like to give this quote five stars. Sean Marks and Kevin Durant. Quote, if he wanted out and still wanted out, he wouldn't be here. I think he'd be here. You wouldn't have been able to trade him. So you're saying he would have held out? I don't understand at this point why he needs to say anything along those lines. Yeah, say nothing.

Sean Marks, stop talking. We know you're protected by Woj, but you don't need to talk. Just lay low for a couple months. If anything happens, Woj has your back. We just lived that. We just lived exactly what you said, Sean Marks. It didn't work yeah he's there how about that here's a great one from Josh Hart talking about how he has finally a little stability

in uh in Portland I've been in the NBA for five years and I've had five coaches maybe five and a half if you want to count Bron and Rondo oh you know what that's a compliment or a to count Braun and Rondo. Oh. I can't tell if that's a compliment or a dig for Braun and Rondo, but five coaches in five years. Jesus, Josh Hart. Couldn't that be true? Poor Josh Hart.

Yeah. Poor Josh Hart. Everybody likes Josh Hart. I like Josh Hart. Puts up the stacks. He's always contributing. Good role player in that Portland situation. I hope he does have stability.

All right. I'm not going to do the next one yet because you're going to make fun of it. So I'm going to give you a nice one. I'm going to give you a layup. It's from Nikoli Jokic. I want to be the Tim Duncan of the Denver Nuggets, but I need to win a couple championships to be him. Great self-awareness, Nikoli Jokic. A great quote. You continue to win. You continue to bat a thousand. I like Nik Nicole Jokic a great quote you continue to win you continue to bat a thousand I like Nicole Jokic he's right

they do have to win some championships before you start comparing yourself but at least his eyes on the prize yeah don't compare yourself to Tim Duncan

until you win a couple championships Nicole Jokic gets it great job by him good job yeah by the way I like Denver this year

worries me that Jamal Murray still hasn't been playing full tilt. And he's just easing back into real basketball games when he got hurt 18 months ago. I don't want him playing full tilt until January. Great. All right. You're going to make fun of this one.

This is Zion on his summer and media day. The best way to describe it is I found true resolve within the game of basketball. Something to me shifted, changed in the game of basketball is that it's for me as my love and what I want to do. So that's the quote. It's a quote. I, it sounds great. Are you going to stay in shape for like a year? He looks pretty good. Yeah, but can you keep it? He looks pretty good.

He's a kid. Get a good summer. Remember. Remember what his life has been the last five years. And how young he is. That's the key. He could have just rekindled, have a rekindled connection with basketball.

Speaking of, you know, we've broken up a few few times and he's never said he's broken up with basketball he's just encountered some life challenges he's broken up with dieting he's i don't think he's ever found it but maybe now he has a relationship with dieting we all i hope we get an opportunity to mature like let's just let him he still so young. That team is so good. So juicy. When we were Zion's age, we were doing quarter keg races in the basement

of weird Holy Cross apartments and throwing up into buckets so we could keep going. So I'm not here to judge Zion Williams. This is very true. It's exactly what we were doing. A little quote from Damian Lillard.

Last season was probably the first time in my career I was just able to watch. I was able to be with my family and focus on myself personally without the responsibility of performing. I just think it recharged me. I'm calm, at peace, excited to play again. I'm in. You won me over, Damien Lillard.

One paragraph. Good, good. I loved he. I mean, he's right. Just watch, recharge. Excited to have him back. Yeah. I'm a little less sold on this quote from Patty Mills.

He said he asked Ben Simmons if he was ready to play one-on-one, and Ben Simmons retorted, I'm ready to play one-on-five. Oh, Nelly. Oh, Ben's back in the house. Ben likes basketball again. I am glass half full on ben simmons this upcoming season i think there is a scenario under which the drama that will uh continually hover over that garbage

situation that he's going to find a kind of peace he'll just carve out his own little corner and because of all the noise that's surrounding what's happening, he can just go play. He'll be able to focus and play. He'll get to play basketball for the first time. Look at the list of guys we haven't seen play basketball in like 18 months. It's pretty amazing.

He's on that list and I think he's going to be the beneficiary of the insane situation up there. I probably disagree, but I'm not going to definitively say you're wrong. the beneficiary of the insane situation up there. I probably disagree, but I'm not going to definitively say you're wrong. Okay. I don't like when somebody just stops doing their job.

One of my crazy takes. Pascal Siakam says after the year I had, there's so much I can get better on. I want to be a top five player in the league. I want to be one of the best. I'll do whatever it takes to get there.

I'm ready for it. It's time. I think it's, I think we're, it was Pascal Siakam time and it will continue to be, but I don't know if there's another version of Pascal Siakam time. I think he could be a top 20 guy in the league like he was last year.

Can he be a reliable three-point shooter and up the volume of those attempts? I'm trying to think of the aspects of his game that would take him from top 20 closer to top 10. What would it take for you for him to be in that range? I think

you'd have to have a run of like two months like what Tatum had last year where you're basically averaging 30 points a game and you're doing it on both ends and you're just clearly the best part in your team to me the ceiling of that team is whatever happens with Scotty Barnes this season sure what

he adds to me Siakam will just be the same as he was last season I don't see another level for him but we'll see he caught he specifically mentioned I think I can get better so we'll see this level or or a little bit I can get better, so we'll see how he does it. This level or a little bit better, and what if it's on the defensive end? What if he decides he wants to average eight and a half rebounds a game

or something crazy like that? My favorite thing about Pascal Siakam is that he told us to stick it right up our rear ends because we had him on the worst contract list. Me, you, and Waz did that pod last year, and immediately after that pod came out, he just said, watch this.

He stuck it right in our rear ends. We changed his career. I don't have a couple more. Kyle's freaking out that we have to go to break, but we don't. We're almost done. Steven Silas said, everybody needs to know the following about Jabari Smith. He is such a gifted defensive player. Like, now. I think this is, Jabari Smith. He is such a gifted defensive player. Like now. I think this is,

Jabari Smith, I think he's going to really surprise people as how additive he is to a team that's trying to win because it's not going to come in and average 25 a game. I think he'll probably hit a couple of threes and he'll play great defense and have a couple of highlight dunks. That team doesn't really need his scoring. So in a weird way, he'll be disappointing to the people who thought he was supposed to average 25 a game. But I actually think what his destiny is is to be like a really awesome,

talented blue guy for at least the first two years before he blossoms into whatever else is there. So I'm in. I agree, Steven Silas. I think it's a great move by Steven Silas also. Like kind of a proper way to protect your player.

Lower expectations. You beat me to it. I'm going to play the Houston over this year. I'm really keying into what you're getting at with this, which is they're not a team even though talent and youth wise, they're not going to be

winning in the low 40s. They're going wise, they're not going to be winning in the low 40s. They're going to try. They're going to play hard. They're not just out there for the traffic. And I think the direction that they're headed is a good one. They're going to try and compete. Well, and if Jalen Green makes a huge

leap, which is possible, and they have somebody... At the end of games he's creating plays for himself and other people and doing all that stuff, then that'll be the key. Only a couple more. Dwayne Casey said Cade Cunningham is up to 227 pounds and said,

quote, he looks like a different dude than he did last year. I thought Cade looked big last year. And I mean big like he looked like an adult male, not like a little wispy rookie like he had a man's body. So now he's 227 as a guard. This is like some Darren Williams shit. I need to see him.

227 is huge. That's a big dude. Robert Williams on his decision to come back to the playoffs and play when he was hurt. I played in the finals, homie. You win some, you lose some. I don't regret that shit. It's my guy, Robert Williams. Speaking of Roberts, Robert Covington, Robert Covington, quote, on the Clippers, we got a leader who's won a championship.

We got a head honcho who's won two championships. We got championship DNA in the building. It's not wrong. Good. Good on them. It's a deep team. They're a serious team. Kawhi looks ripped. I just want to see Kawhi Leonard play basketball. Me too. Let's see it. Wouldn't that be fun? John Moran, I'm being ranked ninth on ESPN's

top player rankings. I'm not satisfied. I got eight more spots to go. It's the right way to think. I don't know if you're going to get there, but I like that you said it. Please, please, please

be healthy for as many games as possible. Neither of us are going to comment on this next quote from Kyrie Irving. I gave up four years, hundred something mil, decided to be unvaccinated.

That was the decision. It was contract, get vaccinated, or be unvaccinated and there's a level of uncertainty of your future. I had to deal with that real life circumstance of losing my job for this. I'm not commenting.

Let's finish with some Anthony Davis quotes. I made an emphasis on just taking care of my body and getting it back to what it was as far as strength wise. My first year here, that was my biggest focus. My body feels great. A lot of weight strengthening, basically starting from scratch, building my body back up to where I'm comfortable again. And I feel like I got to that point. I have a catch with that quote. It wasn't from this year, it was from 2021. Yeah. You said my first year here and that's some year that's a number of years ago here's this quote this year uh i'm so excited that i've got goosebumps just thinking about

this year i'm looking forward to a healthy year and doing what i know we can do i went through the summer focusing on strengthening my body i have to be on the court and at my best to put us in the position to be our best i'm ready to do that so i guess he's just giving the same quote every year now. Why not? It worked. You know, nobody really calls on you. There's no account. Only Bill Simmons is calling AD out. I mean, just stay on the fucking court for 60 games.

Another guy I'd like to see play basketball. Like to see him play. You said it's 60 games. That feels like a reasonable request. I wonder what his trade value is at this point. Like if they started out low, because I talked about this with Windhorst a little bit on Tuesday's pod and then got some feedback

where people are like, Davis is not, the days of him like fetching this huge package are gone. Nobody knows if he can stay in the court anymore. Soon as they were going to trade him, it's not the same kind of trade I think you're thinking it would be. Wouldn't it be a trade that's not that dissimilar from the Harden-Simmons trade?

Like a one-for-one with some other stuff around it where circumstances dictate the outcome? Sure. You know who could use Anthony Davis? The Boston Celtics. You have size problems. The Celtics have size problems. Not you. You're fine.

Leave my Celtics out of this. They have size problems. E-mail doesn't have a size problems. The Celtics have size problems. Not you. You're fine. Leave my Celtics out of this. They have size problems. E-Mate doesn't have a size problem. Any last thought before we're two weeks away from our over-under spot? Did we hit all the NBA things we wanted to hit there? We hit enough. I wanted to be bullish

on Dallas, but there's a lot of reasons for me to want to hit the brakes now. We didn't do the Christian Wood quotes. You know, they didn't make the cut. They probably should have. Christian Wood seems very confident this season. The whole thing is very kooky to me.

What's going on there? Houston basically gave Christian Wood away. I was going to give Dallas the benefit of the doubt. And, you know, I like them to be sort of in the low 50s because I like the narrative of what Luca's going to do this season. But there's just some weird vibes coming out of there. Well, and they lost Jalen Brunson. I know.

And they're like, oh, we're going to miss JB. It's like, I would fucking hope so. There were playoff games where he was the only guy who could score in your whole team. The only guy. I hope you missed him. Yeah. All right. House, we can hear you on Tuesday's East Coast Bias on Ringer Gambling

Show. Just a fantastic show. You, Raheem and JJ and then you and Warren Sharp on Friday. Plus fairway wrong. Golf season wound to basically somewhat of an end. Now there's going to be golf civil war. We're just going to have everybody fighting for a while. But it's good to see you. I'll see you in less than two weeks.

Can't wait. Get out the meatballs. Talk to Jammie for me. I'll talk to my mom. Thanks. Football season's underway. Now is the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

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First online real money wager only. Refund issues as non-retririevable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. All right. Our guy Ben Solak is here. It's trap week, Ben. Is it? I'm sniffing it out. I think it's trap week. I have five games that just don't smell right. Not like a Dahmer miniseries on Netflix kind of smell where you're like, what's going on? Are those really dead pork chops or are there dead bodies? What's happening? But Minnesota, New Orleans, minus two and a half in London. New Orleans should be 0-3. It looks like they're going to start Andy Dalton. This looks like a great spot for Minnesota. And yet, I don't know. Primetime Kirk,

London Kirk. Anytime I can put a word in front of Kirk Cousins, I'm not betting him anymore. I think it's a stay away. What do you see with that one? Is 9.30 in the morning primetime? Does primetime Kirk still work? I guess like island game Kirk is still there, right? It's all

eyes on him. So that theory still works. I'm worried about this to see how many of your trap games I already have bets on because I am on Vikings minus two and a half. What's the case for New Orleans? I can't make it other than they did just they hit cousins a couple times and then he starts doing Kirk Cousins stuff. Other than that, I can't make a case. And like

defensively, they look okay in terms of advanced metrics right now. But then you remember that like they had week three against the Panthers and the panthers scored on a defensive touchdown and generally were nothing you know what i mean like it's not like they've faced a gamut of functional offenses and the vikings right now are second in epa per drop back this passing game works it works when jefferson's taking you over and it works when you're devoting so many resources to stopping jefferson that they get to do other stuff uh they also found the running game operating a little bit better against minnesota or excuse me against Detroit last week. That's

an Aaron Glenn led defense in Detroit. Glenn was in New Orleans. He runs defense quite similarly to how Dennis Allen does it. So they found a way to get the running game working against a similar system last week. I think the Vikings are good for points in this game. And if we have banged up Jameis or 75% Jameis or Taysom plus Andy, I don't think they can hang. New Orleans points this season have all come in the fourth quarter too. And so if you're feeling trappy on this one, just don't bet it. Wait for the Vikings to go up big and then bet the Saints live.

Because when they open the offense up in the fourth quarter is when they actually score points. Well, Minnesota so far this year, they played Green Bay, 12th DVOA, Detroit 13th, and Philly 4th. So there's a chance that they just had a tough schedule so far. New Orleans has had the opposite. I don't know. Something doesn't smell right with this.

I want to take Minnesota. I honestly still lick at my runes from that Monday night Philly game. When you're on the long side of a Kirk Cousins bet, it's just a long two hours. It's like when you're on the long side of a Kirk Cousins bet, it's just a long two hours. It's like when you're on an airplane and it lands

and everyone's excited, but then you're trapped on the runway because the gate's not ready for an hour and people just start getting surly. That's Kirk Cousins when you know he doesn't have it by like the third quarter, which was that game. Yeah, and that's the thing is they look good EPA for drop back right now.

Like I said, they were second because he threw three red zone picks in that game. So, and that's the thing is they look good EPA for drop back right now. Like I said, they were second because he threw three red zone picks in that game. So they were moving the football. Yeah. And now do we get to say, oh, but EPA said they were good if we lose a bet on Kirk Cousins? No, that's the sad news.

So it feels good. It looks good on a model. I'm okay with having Vikings two and a half in the pocket. I definitely wouldn't take it above three. But I do hear you in the sense that I'll be, first, I'll be in church for this game. So I'll just open my phone afterwards and be like,

oh, sick, Kirk threw two resident interceptions. I lost this bet. Awesome. Trap game number two, Dallas-Washington. Dallas favored by three at home against a Washington team that's terrible, that looks like, who knows, that heads might roll if they get killed in this game. And yet, I don't know. I don't, I just, I was like, oh, maybe tease

Dallas. Then you go look at the line. It's Dallas by three. That's weird. And now I'm staying away. I just don't trust it. Yeah. Washington is a very volatile team. They score in explosives. They score in downfield passes. They got receivers who can separate and then they give up scores and explosives because they play with, they

play cover one. They let you beat them over the top and then they're very turnover prone on offense. So we'll give you short fields. because they play with they play cover one they let you beat them over the top and then they're very turnover prone on offense so they'll give you short fields so they generally read as an over team i do think 41 and a half is a little bit too low i haven't bet it but that's a lot to do with like cooper rush and they're gonna sit on the football and kind of whatever but betting washington against the spread is very scary to me at this time because i've seen them get backdoor themselves into games like they did in the jaguars in week one i've seen them just totally implode and never get close to the spread. Like they did against the Eagles in week three. Volatile offense, hard to handicap.

And that Jags win, where Wentz basically made two incredible throws. And then the Jags go and they just lay the smack down all over the place the next two weeks. And it looks like an impressive win. That's why I hate week four, because we have enough of a sample size. And yet they're just things that don't make sense.

Like why does Jacksonville lose to Washington and then kill Indianapolis and the chargers trap game? I'm staying away from that trap game. Number three. And I still might bet on this. I see the trap. I dangled my foot over it. I see that it's a precipitous fall and I don't care Vegas who's Owen three,

but what are they? Four plays away from big three, but what are they, four plays away from being 3-0? Maybe five plays? They're in every game. They have a little bad juju with them, but this is the all-time must-win if they lose this game. They're probably not making the playoffs. Playing a Denver team that people aren't

bonkers about these days. It seems like this line should be Vegas by three, and it's Vegas by two and a half. And it feels like they're pulling us to bet on Vegas. And I don't know. My guardrails are going up, Ben. I can't explain.

Absolute, absolute, unequivocal do not touch this game with a 10-foot pole. I will not bet this game. And I will bet the other four o'clock games at 3.30 to make sure that I don't bet this game at 4 o'clock.

It's one of those where the Raiders are in desperation mode. The fixes feel so easy. Somebody's just got to get in Derek Carr's earpiece every time he's on the sideline and go, Devontae, Devontae, Devontae, 17. The one we paid for, 17. Devontae, throw it. So you can fix that pretty easily on offense.

And then for Denver, the solutions are even more obvious. Russ has to throw the ball down the field. They have to go for it on fourth down. They get stuff that's been very heavily covered. Both teams should be better than they are, which means that someone's going to improve. Somebody's going to cover. Somebody's going to look like they're riding the ship.

I'll tell you who on Monday morning. Don't ask me beforehand. So both those teams are on your do not bet list. Yeah, I think in different contexts, I feel comfortable betting some Denver unders. This defense looks really, really good. They are run heavy.

45 and a half is the total here with the Raiders. It's tricky because the Raiders have found they have a downfield passing game. The Raiders do have the ability to kind of pour points on you a little bit. So I'm sketchy around this total.

There's other totals I like on the board better. I didn't love how car has looked this entire season, but the game week three in Tennessee was probably the best he's looked. Part of me wonders, with these games that are in the South in September,

do we just maybe not overreact to anything? Whether there's weather stuff or all kinds, it just seems like there's these variables that then when we look back two months later, we're like, oh yeah, that was the game when Josh Allen almost passed out against Miami and they were through nine points. By the way, I was talking about this with somebody today. Why do we pick and choose which side should be more tired during a really hot game when one side runs a bunch of plays?

Because when Tua came back in week two against Baltimore and they ran all those things and it was like, well, the defense was gassed. They're running around trying to catch up with these receivers. They just ran out of gas and you got Tyreek and Waddle, they're running around. So that's what happened. Then week three, it was like, well, Buffalo's offense was gassed. I mean, those guys were running around. So does it just, whoever loses, that's the team that was gassed? Is that where we've landed on this? That's definitely the number one thing because you're hindsighting it and you're going 24 seven. When you look at people who bet second half lines and they bet live lines and they kind of model out games as they go.

Typically, the the higher time of possession, the higher total plays is going to wear on the defense more than the offense. In a regular game, you kind of have like Miami adjust for the weather a little bit. So you expect the Dolphins players to just feel better in the humidity than the Bills players because they've practiced in it. They've been in it in August and September during during training camp but it's also positional and that's where like some of this ngs tracking data stuff is really really interesting and and as we get more of that public it's something that i want to look at in terms of live lines and stuff like

that because you can you know get other receivers on the field you can go stick your calif raymonds and your river car crafts and trent sure feels out and have them just run Marlon Humphrey up and down the field for four plays. Marlon doesn't get to come out when all of a sudden it's third down. He's got to cover Tyree kill so you can you can game a particular position. You need like, you know, the Ravens pass rushers really died in the fourth quarter because they're playing a lot horizontal

side to side against that sort of offense. So there's units and positions to look at a little bit more granular when you're talking like who gets tired under what context. Yeah. The South. Speaking of the South, Tampa, Kansas City. Tampa's favored by one.

I was going to play Tampa this week because I was very concerned about Kansas City's weapons in that last game and people's abilities, A, to get open and B, to make plays. And this was when I picked on to make the Super Bowl and win the Super Bowl. I was like, Mahomes, great offensive line. I don't care about the weapons as much. The offensive line hasn't been as good as I don't think we thought. The coaching's been really weird. I thought that whatever the hell they were doing in that game,

just all the way through was really shaky. Even stuff like not going for it near the end of the second quarter and just basically rolling over and taking it to halftime. It was very unchiefs-like. And Tampa's defense is excellent. And I think Tampa's a case where you could just look at the first three weeks

and say, they just weren't healthy enough on offense yet, but everything else is there. And this is a team like when we get to November, I could see them ripping off seven, eight, nine wins in a row because their defense, because of Brady. That game last week, there are dudes running around.

You could see how frustrated Brady was. He was like, I don't trust any of these guys. Evans comes back this week. We might get Godwin back. He's got another week to work with Cole Beasley. And yet we have this terrible hurricane that's ripping through Florida right now. We have no idea where this game is going to be. And I almost wish, I'm just talking about it from a gambling thing,

because that's what we do in this pod. I almost wish they would say, this is going to be another location now, because I would want to think about Tampa. On the flip side, you have the human element of it. All these guys are worried about wherever they live, their families, all that stuff. And we've seen that has wild variables with gambling. I think this is a stay away, even though I think Tampa right now is better. Yeah, I agree. I think that you are in a position with the weather where you want to be careful about in this game.

Now, the same thing is true for some of your East coast games, right? They're currently expecting winds up to 20 miles per hour and steady rain for Baltimore Buffalo, which is a huge deal for that game. That was my fifth trap game. We were about to get to that.

Exactly. So there, there are, this is a big, we look at the weather obviously. And then for chiefs Buccane to that. Exactly. So there are, this is a big week to look at the weather, obviously. And then for Chiefs, Buccaneers specifically, yeah,

I have the Chiefs in a couple of teaser legs already and I'm not going to bet them anymore. The frustrating thing about that Chiefs game against the Colts was the insistence

on trying to continue to figure out this running game. They really want to be able to be balanced. They want to be able to run teams out of light boxes when that's the defense they're getting. They're running their be able to be balanced. They want to be able to run teams out of light boxes when that's the defense they're getting.

They're running their head into a wall. The Colts run defense is really, really stout. Grover, Stewart, Bobby Okereke, like the DeForest Buckner, it's a great interior. And they weren't able

to get the ball moving on them. They go now from a very run funnel team. Don't try to run against the Colts. Colts run defense is too good to another very big run funnel team. Do not try to run against the Buccaneers.

Vida Vea, Akeem Hicks, Levante David. This is not a team to run against. I am not confident they learned their lesson. So I think this game is a one score game because I think the Chiefs passing game is just going to keep them in any game they play. Mahomes the ability to score in two minutes, even if they're down in the fourth quarter, they can get this back within one score. So I like them in a leg. But besides that, Chiefs are tough to trust. I have an idea. This isn't quite a turning the TikTok camera on idea, but Damian Harris for Clyde Edwards-Hilaire, just flip him.

Yeah. Just flip the, put Damian Harris on the Chiefs. I'm with you. The Chiefs running backs, they just, they're trying to establish this running game and none of them, none of the running backs are actually good. But I do think Edwards-Hilaire

as like a pass-catching guy is kind of whatever his destiny would be, right? I don't want him running short yardage in third and one. What I want him is in the shotgun on third and seven with the ability to either run a drop play or send him out. The Pats don't have anybody like that. And Ramondre started to get,

I don't know, you must have noticed this from a fantasy element, Ramondre kind of got the steering wheel last week and was in a lot of plays. And I wonder, like, does it, Damien Harris could be a free agent after the season. Is there some sort of deal that would work? Anyway, that's my fake trade. Every time I

watch that backfield, I wonder why Ramondre doesn't get the lion's share. To me, he's the player. Damien Harris is fine. Damien Harris is good, but he's not Ramondre. Ramondre is a different level. I, I think Romange has more explosiveness. Yeah, the other issue for the Chiefs, I was talking about this a little bit on the Ringer NFL Friday show, is that, independent of who their

back is, they're trying to run out of shotgun. And in the NFL, it's really, really hard to run out of shotgun. The only way to do it is to be super spread out and just run inside zone all the time, which the Chiefs have tried, and that hasn't been worth it. So now they're trying to do clever stuff and pull guys because they have all these really good pullers, but it's out of the gun.

The timing's wrong and angles are wrong. And yet somehow their offensive coordinator, Eric Bien-Ami, is a running backs coach. He should know this. Why is he like,

it's very peculiar why this is the issue for a team that shouldn't be having these problems. And he's been so good with pass catching backs. Why is Clyde Edwards-Alaire better in the passing game? Like it's very peculiar stuff.

So it leads me to believe it's going to be hard for them to figure out a solution. I thought that Colts lost. I'm still mad about it. It cost me a bunch of bets and I still cannot believe they lost that game. They were so much better than the Colts in that game. Talk about trap games. I remember I texted you before that game and I was like, this line's at four

and all the sharps are on the Colts. There's something wrong. And then I took the Chiefs on another bet once the line hit four. And then that was really dumb. So for now, I'm staying away

from this one. We'll see by the time on Sunday. And the fifth one, you mentioned Buffalo, Baltimore with the weather. Baltimore's defense is decimated.

Mack made them look more competent than they did than they are last week because Mack was just awful just flat out awful and I don't know now they lost another guy on their d-line they it's if they win this it's gonna have to be a Lamar just goes off game yes but you're catching Buffalo after a game they what does that happen? Once every 20 years somebody runs 90 plays to 39

and they lose. It's just the stupidest loss. This is like, are we ever going to see Buffalo at minus three again this season? That's what we said last week. I think because of the weather, this seems to happen with Buffalo. It's like, week four

that was the game when there was the tornado. They have these weird weather variables every week. I guess my thing with Josh Allen is like, all right, so if the weather is perfect, you're good, but as soon as we bring in a weather variable, now I have to worry about you?

If there's wind or if it's super hot, now we're making excuses. Keep bounce the game-winning touchdown Isaiah McKenzie. If Jimmy G did that, we would have been three days of Jimmy G sucks. Did you see that pass? And Josh is like,

well, it was hot. You know, it's like, he's like a 10 year old. He's like our 10 year old son that we make excuses for. I don't get it. Josh is a bit of a golden retriever, isn't he?

He's just like always smiling, always running around, always happy a little bit. You feel like sometimes you have to like shepherd him and be like, no, it's time to come inside. The weather's bad. I'll be on prop angles for this game.

The Bills have been good at forcing Lamar to give the ball on a lot of options stuff when they played him recently. So J.K. Dobbins is a good look in this game, from my opinion. Stefan Diggs has just been absurdly high volume against man coverage over the course of his and Josh Allen, the good versions, career together. And this is a man coverage team. I think you're gonna see a heavy digs game. So I'll be on props for this one. I don't want to take anything on

the side right now, especially because bills minus three feels good, but it's exactly as you said, if they don't cover it's a huge, incredible Lamar game. And if there's one player right now, I don't want to be on the opposite side of him having a huge, incredible MVP statement game. It is Lamar Jackson. There's no

player in the league doing more for their individual offense than Lamar is doing for the Ravens. In general, it feels good, but that's just the one guy I wouldn't want to be fading right now. I'll take props. I won't take a side. Nephew Kyle and I just lived it. It sucks when he gets hot. It's like a basketball

team where Devin Booker is just going to have 35 in the second half. Like, oh my God, can't stop this guy. That's how it felt. I'm staying away from that one. All right, we're going to take a break. I like a lot of the dogs, and we're going to get to them in a second. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

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the million dollar picks, there's some tasty dogs. We mentioned the Patriots before. To me, this is the dumbest line of the week. It started at 10 and a half and it's dropped down to nine and a half, the Pats, because Mac Jones got hurt. Mac Jones has been terrible all season for him. I think he's been one of the four or five worst quarterbacks in the league. Every game he's made two or three just legitimately dumb throws. You look at, and this hurts because I love Mac Jones,

and I was convinced he had a chance to be maybe even a little bit special. His last nine games, dating back to last year in the playoff games, he's thrown 10 touchdowns and 12 picks. 6.1 YPA. He's lost two fumbles. They've scored 14, 17, 21, 50, 24, 17, 7, 17, and 26.

I thought they played well last week. He was the reason they lost. Their offense was moving the ball. Their receivers are making plays. Ramon Gers is running the ball. Their offense I think has a chance to actually be good. Whether he plays or not, I'm kind of hoping he doesn't play you a Brian Hoyer. Who's one in 12 in his last three,

13 starts. Not awesome. You've been at home, but I, I guess I don't understand why this line vaulted because Mac isn't playing. This isn't like we're removing Josh Allen. We're removing a guy who has been a bottom five quarterback this year. And I think the Pats can stay in it the same way.

The bears, you watch that Sunday night game. The Bears hung around in that game and it was a 27-10 final, but they ran the ball, they were around. They just couldn't complete a pass. But they were in the game and I don't know about Green Bay's blowout ability either.

So I kind of like the Pats. I would encourage you not to do this to yourself. Okay, great. Talk me out of it. So, firstly, I don't think that Mac has been as much of a detriment. Okay, great. Talk me out of it. So if I, firstly, I don't think that Mac has been as much of a detriment. Mac, the game he was playing against the Ravens was very peculiar because it

wasn't the typical Mac game. We see dink and dunk, you know, kind of control the ball, smart plays, whatever he was throwing aggressively down the field, which it works better for the way the Patriots have decided to build together the receiving core,

right? Like when you go to get Devante Parker, you're going to have to challenge one-on-one coverage. And he was doing that with success. And then he was like scrambling. He was buying time out of the pocket. He was picking up first downs. That play style I feel is, was necessitated by, was created by that, which is around him, which is that like, there isn't as easy of layups in the passing game. There isn't this like precision short game that was typified by the McDaniels experience when,

when he was there. So you have to be a little bit vertical and you have to kind of scramble and buy some time. I don't think Brian Hoyer is capable of that. So I don't know if you're going to be able to get from Matt Patricia, who like has not really coached offense and from Bill Belichick and from Joe Judge and kind of this brain trust here, the ability to change the dials, make the adjustments on offense to have it support what Brian Hoyer's play style is, which is an extremely limited play style at this time of his career. He has to get rid of the ball now. He can't move in the pocket. He can't extend. But what if it's just a run

the ball, quick passing offense, try to kill the clock and try to make it a 17-14 game? Because I actually think that's what this Patriots team might be. I think they're a run the ball, rush the passer team. They have a really good defensive line. McCourty is the one I think we're all worried about because he's just looked a year too late,

a year too old, maybe should have retired last year. But for the most part, I think they've been able to get pressure and they've been able to move the ball. And it's like these self-inflicted wounds. I think they're second in the league in turnovers right now. So maybe they just tell Brian Hoyer like, dude, you're going 55 miles an hour on the highway.

You're not going 56. Yeah, yeah. It is 55. You're going straight. You're not getting off. And you're not doing anything that we don't think you can do. No, I hear you. And 10 is big.

So I hear you in that regard. I just struggle to trust this offense. You brought up the Bears comparison. The Bears scored 10 in that game. They scored seven on the first drive in which the packers defensive headsets were not working in the helmets they couldn't get a call in so like it's this packers defense obviously very clearly very evidently very nationally struggled against minnesota justin jefferson week one since then they haven't faced good offenses but they have been solid i this we have to remember coming into the season we thought this defense might be one of the best and then we were very

quickly adjusted our priors i think uh this this brian hoyer led offense with the issues they have and the lack of stars at the skill position that the patriots have i don't know if it's lack of stars what do you call nelson aguilar i call no called john new smith what do you call kendrick board what do you what do you mean? When Nelson Aguilar made that catch against the Steelers in week two, a neural connection I thought I had fried from his time with the Eagles reawoke. And I was just furious that he made that catch

relative to the number of catches he had made when he was wearing midnight green. I don't think they scored more than 10-13. And so I'm not sure if you're able to cover a 10-point line on that. Are you sure you're not overrating the Packers defense because they played a Bucs team last week that had D-League receivers, basically?

That's the big question, is where are you at in the Packers defense? Assuming we get a healthy Jair, which obviously is in question, I do like the way they're able to play coverage with a versatile back six. And then this front is gnarly. This is a hard front to run against. If you can get to the second level, you can get an explosive because they have linebackers, light boxes. Rashawn Gary, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, these are big dudes.

So if the Patriots cover, it is a running game sort of a game. So if you have that faith in Ramondre and Harris, go for it. But you will not catch me betting on a Brian Hoyer spread in a year that starts with two. That's too much for me. You're not impressed by his one and 12 in his last 13 starts? I can't remember last time I was impressed by Brian with two. That's too much for me. You're not impressed by his one in 12 in his last 13 starts? I can't remember the last time

I was impressed by Brian Hoyer. That certainly didn't help. Another underdog, which you were impressed by, is the Jacksonville Jaguars. Yeah. Getting six and a half points against the Super Bowl-bound Philadelphia Eagles

that have been the stars of the new Philly Special podcast with you and Shio Kapadia. The Eagles fans, they must love that podcast. They must be so happy. It's like you guys are deep diving shit that just does not exist in other places. It's so much fun. Is this Philly's? I know you did some of the schedule stuff.

Is this Philly's hardest game left? Because I went through it and they got week 12 at home against Green Bay and week 16 at Dallas. And then that's it. I was thinking like, man, if they get by Jacksonville, this could get pretty scary. Yeah, it's funny. They got the Lions early and they got the Jaguars early. And there's a case where we go back

and we look and be like, oh, those were the tough ones. Those were the tests. We didn't even know. Yeah, the thing you have in Philly-Jacksonville is two teams that definitely feel good. The Jaguars absolutely feel like a good team. Should have beat the Commander, should be 3-0. Emphatic win against the Colts, emphatic win against the banged up Chargers teams.

They're definitely somewhere in the good bracket and you're kind of not exactly sure where they land. The Eagles, that's also true. They're probably somewhere in like the very good bracket. But again, it's Detroit, Washington, Minnesota, three defenses that really haven't tested them. Their line hasn't really had to contend with anybody yet. Very good in the trenches on both sides of the ball,

but they've had advantages in that way all the way through. They haven't also encountered a team that has been able to pressure Hurts and able to move him out of a spot in the pocket, which is what the Bucs defense did so well last year. And Jacksonville's defense coordinator, Mike Caldwell, comes from that. He was coaching in Tampa last year where they beat the Eagles twice soundly

because they understood how to manipulate Jalen Hurts. Move him in the pocket, get him rolling out to his left. He's not comfortable. You're going to be able to beat him. So we have like uncertainty. They're definitely both in the good bracket.

And yet somehow this line six and a half. Sharps have been hammering the Eagles all year. And I think they've got a little bit too much dip on their ship. I think that's too much faith in a team that really hasn't had their nose blooded yet. It's a young team that has Hurts has attempted like three passes while trailing.

They haven't had to fight. They haven't had to really like get into the second half and go toe to toe. And so I think Jacksonville's ability to cover is strong. They're also a young team, but a veteran head coach and Doug, who kind of knows how to get him set. I like I took plus seven early in the week. I like plus six and a half. And yeah, if you're looking to get frisky, plus 235 is about as good a value as you're going to find on a dog this week.

Peterson revenge game. Jacksonville second in DVOA, which I thought was crazy because they lost at week one to Carson Wentz. Philly's fourth. But on the defense, they hit on their two first rounders in like a real way and that's usually a good sign for if somebody's

going to go from you couldn't remember who was on our team last year to oh my god we're a three seed hitting the draft helps and

did you know Walker I mean I know Walker was very divisive this is like a 10 out of 10 for how it was going to turn out for Walker right?

Yeah so the Walker traits were always incredible usually traits don't get you drafted 1-1 of this is like a 10 out of 10 for how it was going to turn out for Walker, right? Yeah. So the Walker traits were always incredible. Usually traits don't get you drafted 1-1. They get drafted 1-6 or 1-7. The Walker traits were always unbelievable. One of one. Nobody is this long, this powerful, this explosive. It was okay in Georgia.

He's playing inside of the tackle, hand in the dirt. He's playing a defensive tackles position. You're going to stand him up as an outside linebacker. And it turns out big, strong, long is big, strong, long. Don't really matter where you put it. You know what I'm saying? And they've basically pointed him at a quarterback and said, just push the guy as hard as you can towards him.

Somebody else will clean this up. We got veterans. We got Josh Allen, great outside pass rusher, good defensive tackles. They'll finish the mess. They'll get, you know, the pressure, get the sack. You just go hit somebody. And that simplification has been really good to getting him on the field, getting him reps. That Jags defense,

sixth in defensive EPA, second in defensive success rate allowed. The story will be about Lawrence. The story will be about Doug back in Philly and the offensive improvements. That defense is for real. It's going to make this a messy game. I'm excited to see it. Well, and honestly, unlike Philly, Philly had had trouble closing out

big wins, right? Haven't scored in the second half in the last two games. What does it look like when the nose gets bloody? What does it look like? Yeah, some three and outs. Whereas Jacksonville, I thought, had some killer instinct. I really like the Jags in that game, and I don't know whether I want to go adjusted line, bring them to seven and a half, which is where I'm leaning,

or the money line and throwing them in with another dog. It could be either or quickly bears plus three and a half at the giants. They're also plus one 50. I hate betting on bad teams, even though I'm the same guy. We took Atlanta over Seattle last week, but in general, two bad offenses, the giants, their rush defense is horrible. It's 28th rush DVOA, and the Bears are sick. That's all they can do is rushing. The field stats are legitimately incredible. If I told you Fields was 23 for 45 for 297 and two touchdowns and four picks, you'd be like, whoa, wild game from Fields. I'm like, no, that's his season. Those are

actually three games of Justin Fields. Meanwhile, Jones has been much better. He's thrown for 560. They're 28% on third down. Is it crazy to just say, give me the points? These are two shitty teams that can't move the ball and it's going to come down to a defensive touchdown. I was also looking at,

they don't have these numbers yet, but this feels like Bears plus 150. There will be a defensive or special teams touchdown in the game prop, right? Yeah. The bears plus three and a half is one of my biggest spots this week. Uh, the, and the David Montgomery potential injury didn't practice today on Thursday is such good bait because Khalil Herbert, his backup has been just as good in like goal line, short yardage, third down, early down, just everything. They're running the ball extremely well. And the Giants cannot stop the run. When the Giants get into passing downs, they blitz. And when Fields sees a blitz, he scrambles. On almost 25% of the blitzes he's seen this year, he has scrambled, which is better than what he tries to throw in.

So it's good news. It's awesome that the Giants are just going to spend five guys, six guys, seven guys to get Fields to do what he was going to do anyway. Just get out of the pocket, scramble, run. This is a spot where the reason you fear the Bears is because you're worried about them getting in a negative game script and then having to throw the football. They've shown that they won't do that in the third quarter. They'll continue to run it. And I don't know. And the Giants scored three points every first half. So that's they're not going to get a negative game script. Exactly. I like the Bears a lot, especially with the hook on the field goal. It feels really good.

Where does Daniel Jones rank on the, we know his coach doesn't trust him at all rankings right now. Is he first? Is he top three? Where do you have him? Fields is probably first. He's top three. I had that feeling watching that,

that Cowboys game where it was like, this is what it would look like. If Bill's ownership, was it making sure Brian Dable didn't break Josh Allen? Right. It's just like, this is what it would look like if Bill's ownership wasn't making sure Brian Dable didn't break Josh Allen, right? It's just like, hey, run, hit somebody, take pressure. We do not, listen, if you get bruised up this week,

we kind of don't care, buddy. You're not in the long-term plans. They use them like a weapon. Titans-Colts is another one I like. Titans plus three and a half. As I said, I don't like the Colts is another one I like. Titans plus three and a half. As I said, I don't like the Colts at all. I thought they all time pulled the game out of their ass. I mean, their sideline was spirited.

Like they were doing all the things. The Sharps were behind them, but they block worse than I thought. Like Ryan was getting the shit kicked out of him in that Chiefs game. And then the Titans, I thought, played pretty well in that Vegas game. They controlled the clock. Vegas was playing catch-up. They got red zone stops.

And you think both of these are bad teams, but Indies only scored 40 points in three games. Titans plus three and a half feels like slightly more important for the Titans. Weirdly, because Vegas just beat KC last week. They're feeling good. Titans barely escaped that Vegas game. I don't know.

Especially with Burks, if he can keep coming on week after week, they're not really getting anything from their receivers yet. This seems like another flip a coin. Why wouldn't I take the three and a half? The Titans are still very scary for me to trust. And a lot of it goes back to the Chiefs had against the Colts. The Titans want to run the football.

The Colts are the team right now to not try to run the football against. Passing DVOA, they're terrible. Passing EPA defense, they're terrible. Rush defense, they're amazing. Every time you run on first and 10 against the Colts, you're just asking for second and 10. Please give us one less chance to get a first down. The Titans have shown, however, under Vrabel

that they will run Derek Henry into a brick wall. So that's what scares me there. What I do like in this game are the Berks props. They've talked a lot about getting Berks more involved. Berks route participation has gone up in the last three weeks in enormous ways. He started with routes on 36% of Tannehill's dropbacks in week one, then 57%, then like 96% in week three.

He went from, I have to earn my spot in this offense to with a Kyle Phillips injury, so a little bit of a caveat, to I am now a starting guy in this offense. You're still seeing receiving yard props at about like 37, 38 and into the low 40s. With Burke's explosive ability, that's two, three catches because he's going to be used in the intermediate area

of the field and he could run after the catch. So this game for me is a Burke's look the second we get those lines on FanDuel. So little Titans money line with a little Burke's action. Yeah, this feels like an either or game. So why not take the plus three and a half? I forgot to ask you, can you name when we talk about the Giants, can you name their number one and number two receivers and receiving yards right now for the Giants? Can you name their number one and number two receivers and receiving

yards right now for the Giants? Yeah, so I think Shepard was first and then Richie James was second. Yeah, Richie James. Made good money on Richie James against the Cowboys. Richie James is another one like Traylon Burks. His route participation is through the roof. Every time the Giants are dropping back, he is running a route.

He gets priced 40 receiving yards, right? I hit four plus receptions that game at like plus 135. If you're going to run a route, sometimes the ball is just going to end up in your hands, even if you're not the schemed guy. For Richie, they run him on screens. And so if you get Richie James three plus four plus receptions continuing

to be priced around like 50%, right? Like minus 110, plus 110 in that area. He's running 48 routes a game, man. You got to go for it. Last dog. I can't believe I'm even throwing this. The Texans are plus 194 against the Chargers. Absolutely.

Plus five and a half. It's in Houston. I just can't get over the injury list for the Chargers. And I guess the problem for doing this, we do these picks on Thursday, is there's a couple that could go either way, like Keenan Allen. He might play Like Keenan Allen, he might play. Lindsley, he might play.

JC Jackson's out. Slater's out for the year. Bosa, another thing ripped off his body. He's just, he loves, the Bosa brothers, just things rip off their body. And then Herbert, you know, is playing with a really, really painful rib thing. I don't know if you've ever hurt your ribs, but the ribs, I think the common person who's never had a rib injury is like,

oh, it'll be fine. It's just his ribs. And it's like, when your ribs hurt, you're basically incapacitated. It's like being paralyzed. Yeah, you can't do anything, much less want to be hit. The Texans, they played three close games.

The Chargers have only scored 49 points this season. And I think whatever we have in our head for the Chargers, that's not who they are. I think they have real coaching problems. And it's not just Joe Lombardi, who's been a punching bag all year, but I've just never been impressed with Staley at any point during this entire Chargers stint. This feels like a game that Texans could keep close and potentially steal down the stretch. You're smirking. No, because I was prepping my the Chargers are poorly coached. And then you were like, I feel like the Chargers are poorly coached. And I was like, man, now I gotta

come up with something new to say. The Chargers are poorly coached. That's the issue is a good team, a well-coached team with more talent than a bad team like the Texans should beat them by five and a half points. The Chargers have proven to us over the course of Brandon Staley and Joel Lombardi's tenure here

that they are not that team. Sometimes they beat the good teams really well. Sometimes they score a ton of points against the good defenses and it's nice. But on a week-to-week basis, they're not like a Tomlin team where we just like trust them to get business done and keep it within the score, whatever.

They aren't dominating the way they're supposed to. They lost to Houston last year in a game in which defensively they didn't have an answer to power running game, short targets, incremental sort of football that was working. They couldn't dial up pressure.

I think they're better on defense this year. Even with the Bosa injury, I think that if you're able to get JC Jackson for this game, it's enormous. But I think generally they're better on defense.

Offensively, I have no idea. I have no ability to trust that coaching staff who has not figured out how to generate an explosive passing offense around Justin Herbert when everybody's healthy. I don't trust them to then

deal with the loss of Slater, Guyton, who's one of their speed threats, a vertical stretch guy, Keenan Allen, we've seen the last couple weeks, and obviously the Herbert limitations. And Lindsley. What about if Lindsley does the play too? And let's talk, there's been a big Pats running back podcast. They are voluntarily giving the ball to Sonny Michelle a lot. Not let's talk. There's been a big Pat's running back podcast. They are voluntarily giving the ball to Sonny

Michelle a lot. Not a little bit. Several times on early. We could be using Austin Eckler here right now, but we'll use Sonny instead. What are you doing? There's no trust for me in the Chargers offensive staff. So this is one of the games total wise I like. I think 45 is too high.

I think we're under that number. And I do think that on a five and a half point spread with an under, you're looking at an underdog covering. So I like the Tex think 45 is too high. I think we're under that number. I do think that on a five and a half point spread with an under, you're looking at an underdog covering. So I like the Texans five and a half. It checks a lot of boxes for people putting the Chargers in a money line. Let's go to Houston where we have some...

What happened in Houston over there? And that's like the Texans are up 10-0. I can just feel this where this goes. And I think... I don't know where Brandon Staley was in the first coach fired odds, but if they blow this Houston game, it does feel like heads are going to potentially roll. Somebody's got to get,

even if you have to fire the team doctor, just blame him for something. But somebody has to lose their job. And you probably at this point should fire the team doctor. That is something that should be a decision you make. Plus 194, plus five and a half. I like both. I'll decide later in the podcast.

Last one. So I think we disagree on this. Browns at Atlanta. Browns minus one and a half. Atlanta was good to us last week. We both hit. I bet them in real life. I think they're fun to watch on offense.

They linger around. They're never at any game. This is a tall task. This feels like a bad matchup to me. Atlanta's run defense is awful. They're 27th in rush DVOA, and that's against the Rams who can't run the ball. New Orleans and Seattle. It's not like they were going against top five running attacks. Cleveland's second in their rush offense. Cleveland has 74 first downs in three games. Cleveland should be 3-0 and really would have been if they hadn't had this every 20 years fluke loss to the Jets

that I'm still trying to figure out what that happened. And most important to me, Brissette's... I thought he was horrendous last year. I think Brissette's been okay this year. I would take him on the pats. He doesn't make mistakes, keeps the ball moving. When they really needed to make a throw, he makes it. It seems like the leadership stuff is there,

but the big thing for me, I think this is a Chubb game where we come out of this and it's like Chubb is the new Derrick Henry. Chubb's got, I think, 340 rushing yards right now. Add another 180 for this game and now it's like, whoa, Chubb, could he get 2,000 yards? Has he taken the torch

from Henry? I feel like that's the path and I want to bet it. Yeah. And I like that. I have a lot of Chubb anytime touchdown and Kareem Hunt anytime touchdown already on this game and I'll probably have more on the Falcon side as well. Kareem Hunt right now is more inside the 20 touches than any other player in the league.

Non-quarterback. Right. Because Chubb walks him down the field and after seven plays has to go take a breather and then Hutton gets to go in on like the 25-yard line and just move the ball a little bit inside. It's a little varsity blues when they used to bench the running back on the goal line plays to run stuff for shooter

and the running back. I do feel bad for Chubb. It's like he did all the work and then it's like you have to leave. Chubb does have 11 carries inside the 20. They both have 11 carries inside the 20 and then Hunt has two targets, right? So this Browns team gets into the red zone a lot.

They're very efficient on drives and they tend to end with scoring drives too. They don't turn the ball over in the low red zone because they're handing the ball off so much. And they have two backs who can do it. It's kind of who's got breath right now. Who did we just walk down the field? Who else needs to go in? And so there's a lot to be for the points there because one of

my biggest spots this week is the over on this game opened at 46 at 47 and a half right now atlanta can run the football really well and has an explosive passing attack cleveland has been porous in the running game potentially no miles garrett potentially no davian clowny in this game they are anthony walker is They're running defense is highly suspect. I think you're going to see Tennessee, Pat, ton of chub, ton of hunt. And the total is low because both teams are high run rates, right?

Like 46 and a half is pretty middling, but they run to set up explosive pass and they score when they get into the red zone. So I think we're gonna get enough points to get this thing over. And so I lean Atlanta, but my bigger position on this game is the total. And I think that you're going to see the backs

be really productive inside the red zone. Little Browns over tease. Oh, yeah. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm looking at it. I didn't I didn't have any teases this week. So the Browns. I have Atlanta in like seven teasers at this point.

One get in the seven for me with Atlanta is really, really big because they hang in these games. They've yet to play in a game that's more than one score by the end. Obviously, the block punt against the Rams. And they've also, I think, now at this point, they've gone team total over three times in a row. And team total over for them is 23.5. If you're going to give me 24, I'm going to take it. And I'll keep taking it until you don't let me.

So Atlanta and the Lions, team totals, baby. Been good to me. Browns to 4.5. Over down to 41.5. Does that get a half over down to 41 and a half. So get get you a little excited. It does. I think I would have

no problems on the over. I'm looking at the four and a half and just thinking to myself like a six point game. You know what I'm

saying? Like I whenever you tease through zero, the number doesn't look as good as you hope it does. Yeah. God damn.

I love teasing through zero. All right. Your favorite bet is it's probably this Browns Falcons over in terms of the amount of money I have on it and the outs that we get there. Both these passing attacks can get

back into games if they're bad in the first half. I like that. I like that a fair bit. Do you have a Solak same gamer for us? Yeah, if you go over total on this game and then a hunt and a chub touchdown, which it feels scary to be two backs of the same team. But like I said, they're both getting a ton of red zone touches in this game. You able to get five to one the other team that i'm

looking for to get that done on is the lions lions line is currently moving down it's moving towards the seahawks which is delightful i will it's at four i'd take it at four i'm happy to leave it and see if it gets to three and a half um but you get them and then you get the jamal williams anytime touchdown i was big on swift last week and he of course got banged up during the game but this lion's rushing attack works the seahawks running defense is one of the worst in the league, and they love to give the ball to Jamal Williams in the red zone. Jamal Williams, 11 total touches right now in the red zone inside the 20. They score touchdowns with him, and he was priced poorly for that last week. Swift is out. He's still priced poorly. Minus

125 is implied 52% chance to score. When the Lions get in the red zone, Jamal Williams gets the football. It's a much better chance than that. So you do Lions spread, Lions team total over 21 and a half, and you get Jamal Williams anytime touchdown, you're looking at about four to one. So you like that more than the Chubb Hunt and the over 47.5? I like the Browns one better, to be honest, just because the Lions are dealing with injuries at receiver right now. And so I think they're going to get team total over, but I want to see Amon Rossi and Brown healthy. I want to see Amon Ross and Brown healthy. I want to see DJ Chark healthy

before I feel really strongly about that. What if I was able to drop a point off that Brown's over? And I took that to 46 and a half minus 140. And the Chubb and Hunt? And Chubb and Hunt, it was plus 488. Does that entice you? Yeah, that feels very good to me. All right, we'll knock that one down.

By the way, Jamal Williams. Kyle and I always talk about the guys that jump off the TV. You know, watching four TVs at once. Jamal Williams is one of those guys that it just looks like he's having an awesome season. We always see him on some TV just ripping through three guys or celebrating. I think he's carried the hard knocks momentum. I've been proud of him. And I think that they love him in the building.

They use him in scoring opportunities over DeAndre Swift, who DeAndre Swift for the second year in a row has banged up. And if you listen to the way they talk about DeAndre Swift, Dan Campbell, when he's available, Deuce Staley during hard knocks, they would like for Swift to be tougher. They would like for Swift to play through these injuries better, and they feel like he doesn't.

Now Swift's going to be out for a few weeks, and we get to see Jamal Williams bell cow. They would like for Swift to play through these injuries better, and they feel like he doesn't. Now Swift's going to be out for a few weeks, and we get to see Jamal Williams' bell cow? I would not be surprised if there's a message sent in Detroit where it's, hey, we're going to hand the ball off to Jamal Williams 22 times. And it's because we like the way this guy plays, like the cut of his jib. At DeAndre Swift, are you watching from the bench?

Can I give you two more bets before you go? Hit me. The last remaining undefeated team of the 2022 season. Eagles minus 430, Miami plus 240. Miami, no hesitation. Philly minus 430 is not good odds. Yeah, and I understand you're looking at the schedule and you get the early bye week, right?

So you feel like, right, they're going to, you know, I can't remember week five, they get like the Cardinals and whatever, but we are vastly overestimating the ability of a young team to not drop one, right? Like Hertz looks good. There was a period of time very recently, which Hertz did not look as good.

And so if the Eagles were like the Chiefs, sure, minus 430, they've done this before they've been here. I don't know. Again, I want to see the team. I want to see the team proofed a little bit before I really believe that they're that dominant. Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on.

Ben Solak, Eagles' first loss of the season. Oh, I saw this. I was thumbing through this yesterday. Packers, Week 12, 14-1. At Dallas, Week 16, 50-1. Or undefeated regular season, 14 to 1. At Dallas week 16, 50 to 1. Or undefeated regular season, 42 to 1. So somehow that Dallas bet is the best odds, right? 50 to 1.

They're 15 to 0 or 14 to 0 heading into Dallas. They lose. Yeah, especially because they're probably in a position where they're resting guys, right? I don't think a full season of undefeated makes any sense for them. Good point. Cowboys, Packers. I mean, like, I personally prefer the field. I'm like,

firstly, I'm on the Jags this week, but I'm telling you, like, yes, the Eagles schedule looks good. You tell me they drop one. I don't have the field. You tell me they drop one to the Steelers, man. Like, the Steelers have, like, a great defensive performance, right? Really good play calling, low scoring, ugly game. Tell me they drop one to the Colts, right? Colts have really good good run defense I will not be

surprised by these this is this is we it would be so fun to fully believe in the Eagles like this man trust me I want you to take me there but I know the team and I know I know the the youth and then the young head coach and the young quarterback I'm not not not I can't I trust me I thumbed through him but I'm not going to take one

Cardinals week 5 plus 240 Dallas week 6 plus 550. That's Cooper Rush still. Is it two weeks, you think? Dak's got no stitches. Well, maybe. Is Dak going to get his job back? That's coming up next on First Take. Don't do that. Absolutely not.

Will we ever see Dak again? To engage with Cooper Rush starter conversation. No, no, no, no, no. Half decent. All right, Ben Solak, we can hear you on the Ringer NFL show on Friday. Also, check out your YouTube series. What's it called? I'm blanking.

The Play Sheet. The Play Sheet. We have so many names for shows, though. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. All right, good to see you. Thanks, Bill.

All right, Million Dollar Picks, week four. I am sick, just like my picks were last week. I think the sickness and the Z-Pack I'm on and all the other cold medication, I think it's actually helping the picks. I have a little clarity. I am down $746,000 through three weeks. No biggie. We've been down before with million dollar picks. We finished in the positive the last two years. Going back to the basics, going some straight up picks, no teases, no big parlays this week. First one, Browns, minus one and a half in Atlanta. Atlanta, terrible run defense.

Browns, awesome running attack. I think this is the game when Nick Chubb becomes the new Derrick Henry. He's going to be over 500 yards by the end of this game. It's going to be a Nick Chubb fest. Here we go. I like the Falcons. I feel bad going against them, but Browns, Brissette, it's happening. Next one, Bucs, Chiefs.

Not sure where this game is being played. And honestly, for the purposes of this line, I'm fine if they play it anywhere because the Bucs are only laying minus one to the Chiefs. I think they have a better defense. They got Mike Evans coming back. Chris Godwin might come back. And I have not seen enough from the Chiefs to make me think that they're going to be

able to move the ball against the Bucs defense. Bucs coming off a loss. I just, I like the spot for them. Feel like this line should be minus three. Grabbing that. So $250,000 on that as well. Browns minus one and a half. Bucs minus one.

And then we're going 200 on four straight up underdogs. First one, Titans plus three and a half against the Colts. Three point game. I like the Titans a little more plus three and a half against the Colts. Three point game. I like the Titans a little more. I was not impressed by the Colts, even though they beat Kansas City last week, taking them. AFC South battle. Texans plus five and a half against an absolutely banged up Chargers team. Texans have been frisky. They've been hanging around in all the games that they've been in. This feels like a 20 to 17 type game. Chargers offense has been surprisingly impotent. I could see them losing this game.

I could see maybe hit some heads rolling after the game for the Chargers. Offensive coordinator, who knows? Brandon Staley, why isn't he in trouble yet? How much worse can he coach? Bears plus three against the Giants is my next bet. There's been some Bears action. This was three and a half middle of the week.

It's moved down to Bears plus three. I still like it. This is an either team could win. Feels like a field goal game. Feels like a defensive touchdown. They don't have the defensive touchdown props up on Fandle yet, but I would like a Bears plus 136 money line with the

defensive touchdown. If they had it, they don't. We're going to take the Bears plus three and we're going to take the Jags plus six and a half against the Eagles. Jags are second in DVOA. Jags have kicked the crap out of teams for two weeks in a row and everybody's already making Super Bowl plans for the Eagles. This feels like a nice spot for the Jags. I feel like we're getting value here. Feels like this line should be Jags plus three and a half, getting three extra points because there's so much Eagles hype. So grabbing that. And then for parlays, I got two underdog parlays for you.

One of them is the Jags again with the Bears plus 690. We're putting 33K on that. And then second, I can't believe I'm doing this, the Patriots. So Mac Jones gets hurt and the Patriots line skyrockets to 10 and 10 and a half. And now it's at nine and a half in Green Bay. Mack Jones has not been good this year. He shouldn't have affected the line that much. I'm going to nudge it up even higher. Plus 11 and a half minus 142 for the VIG. We're going to put that with Tennessee plus 150. That is plus 342. So 33K on that, 33K on Jags Bears plus 690. Last but not least, the Solak same gamer. Ben Solak gave us this one.

Chubb Hunt TDs. They both have to score. Cleveland over. We're going to nudge it down to 46.5. All three of those hit, plus 488. We put 33K on that as well. Should mention Peter Schrager, who could not join us for Million Dollar Picks this week.

He co-signed the Pats 11 and a half and the Tennessee bet, uh, that parlay and put in per in exclamation points, Tannehill Hoyer exclamation points. If that doesn't sound like an awesome parlay, I don't know what does. Those are the million dollar picks for week four. When you ride transit, please be safe.

Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming.

You won't hear them coming. See, safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really?

Really, really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, our friend Jed Apatow is here. It's been a while on the podcast since we've talked, and your daughter became like a celebrity. And as we've talked a lot about dad stuff on the pod, your daughter's on Euphoria and the show is a phenomenon

and she's now legitimately famous. What is that like to have a famous daughter? I can't even imagine. I think you're supposed to want your kid to surpass you, but you really don't want it to happen that fast, right? You want it to be like a 20-year journey. But she's great. She's an amazing actress, and she's hilarious. And I think the show is remarkable. And Sam Levinson wrote a really, really powerful, hilarious, beautiful season. And Maud was amazing. And I'm really proud of her. I'm proud of just the work. I mean, I know how hard it is to pull that off. And I think she's really also blessed to be in a

collaboration with somebody like Sam, because you wait your whole career for someone who's doing a very ambitious work, who understands you and how to use you. So I think it's a really special moment. Well, that last season gears up. Like she,

she was basically the focal point of all the shit that went down. I mean, that show, I don't know how much of it had to do with how good it is, how much of it I do the pandemic. Um, but it is the most influential show really for everyone under 25, like in a really,

really deep, significant way. Like I was thinking like our generation, you know, it'd be like that when 90210 Melrose place around the same year. And it felt like everyone, our age at least knew what was going on with those shows. Now, these shows, I'm amazed the kids have such an ownership over the show.

They get so mad at Sam over like, oh, why isn't that character in this more? And everything is just so interactive and it's such a big show on TikTok andK and it just feels like a machine in a different way. Right. Well, we didn't ever think that anyone, uh, at Hill street blues would listen to our comments. I mean,

it's a different time because people are having a conversation with the show. We had a little bit of that with girls, but I think everything is interactive and that's part of the challenge of being a modern artist is what do you make of the fact that everyone wants to tell you what they would do? Do you care? Or do you have to keep your eye on the ball and your blinders on? Or is there something to learn from how they're interpreting the show and you have you need really thick skin whatever choice you make to to navigate that because yeah people weren't you know speaking out about the storyline on lou grant they weren't talking about falcon crest in that way and so so I really am amazed at how the first two seasons felt like one big movie. There's a beginning, middle, and end of those first two seasons if you watch it like that. And so I'm just impressed as a writer.

And I try to just take inspiration from the high quality of that work. Yeah, because you figure like his generation is learning from the previous generation, which was the first generation of, I know you've created the show and I know you're doing it, but here are my thoughts and people weighing in. And you were in the middle of that with girls because girls, which by the way, I think just celebrated a 10 year anniversary and I think came along at such a cool time and such a fascinating time for the culture where the internet had really rounded into shape for better and worse for whatever it was.

The criticism was a little more fun 10 years ago. I think people for better and worse would kind of go there. Now everybody's a lot more self-conscious about it, but girls was in the middle of it. It was such a unique show, such a creative show. And I will defend girls to the death. I just think it was a one of a kind, but Lena was in the middle of that. And she became, you know, revered in some spots and a punching bag in other spots. And I do think it affected her. I don't,

I don't think there's any way anyone can say it didn't. I'm affected by like one tweet that calls me a jackass. I'm so happy with how little people care about me. You know, I don't get that mountain and that avalanche of feedback. And I think that it's something that I don't know how I would handle it if it hit me in that way, positive or negative.

It's good to be just below high interest levels when you're doing your work. I always loved the Elvis Costellos of the world who had amazing followings, but they weren't Beyonce. And I think that that allowed for an enormous amount of experimentation in someone like his creative career.

That's what the amazing thing about Beyonce is she does that experimentation regardless. When you can do that from the top with the expectations, I don't think people understand how difficult that is to get into your creative space when you know people are paying so much attention. But for me, I used to always think about, I just want to be like Paul Westerberg or Amy Mann. That's psychologically what I think about in order to stay sane, keep creating, take my hits,

keep trying to do new things. Because people get weird when you try to do something new. They don't like when you leave your box. Well, with all that said, you had this crazy, crazy run of movies there that we've covered a few of them on the rewatchables where all of a sudden it just felt like you were involved with every comedy for three years. And a lot of them were really succeeding. And then you hit that point where people are like, all right, enough with this.

He's five in a row. Like, come on, stop with this. So you felt a little of that. But I think it's easier to parachute in and out when you're doing movies. You'd be like, here I am again. Well, it's different. I mean, the reason why we had so many movies was there was so many years

where no one wanted to let us make anything. So we just kept writing. I think that we were very disciplined to write the next one, even though the previous one was rejected. And then once they thought, oh, maybe they know what they're doing, all of them got made.

Everything that we were goofing around with. I mean, Pineapple Express was written because no one would make Superbad. And so we thought, okay, is there a more commercial movie we could do together? And then they didn't want to make Pineapple Express either. So now we had the two of those sitting there and that kept happening.

And then suddenly, I think a lot of it had to do with Talladega Nights doing well. That people thought, oh, this group is onto something. And so let's take a shot at Superbad. And that led to Pineapple and then walk hard and on and on and on. What was the one that opened the door for the ones that you couldn't totally get made, but now they're like,

Oh, Judd wants to do this. We should do this. He's on a hot streak right now. Was there, was it like after super bad or was it towel? Towel day nights was the gateway to now I can get all these scripts that we were pushing and pushing and pushing on. Now they'll make them.

I think that what happened as I look back on it now was that the thing that started everything was old school, which I was not a part of. But that was a big hit for Will and Todd Phillips. And then also Will did Elf. And I think that those two movies really were the reason why we got shots. And then that was the time when Anchorman

was being made. And then that success led them to think, I could do the 40-year-old virgin. And then knocked up. And then knocked up. And then knocked up in Superbad with the same summer. And so it was a big summer. They wanted to put out Pineapple like two or three months after Superbad. We asked to delay it six, seven months because I thought that's too much.

Then my career was over. But maybe that was a mistake. It might have been just a fun momentum. All of them in a row within like eight months. And then after that, we were able to get some things that were more experimental made, like funny people and walk hard.

And that's always the best moment when you realize, oh, we can have some ideas that are stranger or more challenging and get to take our shots with those. Well, and the cool thing about the library you had there for that whole run is you have, it's almost like a basketball team. You have people you're working in that aren't the centerpiece of the movie that a few years later they will be. And it's like, oh, look, I forgot Jonah Hill came off the bench and had 10 points a game on that 2004 or whatever team. And then three years later, he's carrying a movie. I just think from a talent standpoint, and you had a lot to do with it, but man, the amount of talent we had there, if you think about it like sports, it's just like one of those sports runs where it's like, man, the NBA was loaded for those five, six years. I can't believe we had all those players. And I feel the

same way when I think about that comedy run, basically from like 03 to 2012, all these new faces that could come in and carry things and play characters and pop into movies. And they were really giving to the other actors. It's's just so unusual. I don't, I almost don't feel like we're going to see that again. It's hard to know because a lot of the reason why maybe it ended was just the industry changed. Those movies used to make a lot of money on DVD. And so they were really good investments,

these comedies, because they would make, you know, they can make anything, but say they made $50 million in the movie theater, they would make another $50 million on DVDs. So they, they made a lot of money for people. And then the DVD market disappeared and that turned into streaming and they didn't get that money back. And so suddenly a comedy wasn't as easy a bet. And then people started

betting on huge action or superhero franchises. And they still make comedies, but they put their bandwidth on the mega movies, like the movies that can make a billion dollars. Yeah. And I think that there also used to be a market for spec screenplays. People used to write a screenplay and then sell it. Now, they basically, if you write a screenplay, if you bring in the director and the star, they might make it,

but they don't tend to buy any scripts or many scripts that they don't really intend to make. But there used to be this big market where every day you'd hear, someone sold a script for a ton of money, but they didn't make a lot of those movies. And I think at some point they went, why are we buying so many scripts that we don't make? Yeah did boogie nights for the rewatchables this week and it was by the way two

parts in four hours because it's you know one of my favorite movies ever but uh we're trying to figure out what does this look like in 2022 would a studio give somebody like paul thomas anderson 15 million bucks to make boogie Nights coming off Heartache, which was a critically acclaimed movie that nobody really saw. I think they would. I think they would. I do.

That script was probably incredible. I think that would get made. But you don't think they would be like, we don't want to make this as a movie. What about season one of a scripted and nudge it that way? I think it would be more Paul's choice. So if someone made it today and you wrote it

and they said, why don't we make this into a series? A lot of people would go, okay, let's do that. You really need a filmmaker to go, no, this is meant to be on the big screen. I don't want it to be on streaming to start. It's up to the filmmaker to fight for where he wants the movie to be seen. You know, Bros, the movie that we have coming out

with Billy Eichner, the whole time we were all like, this is for the theater. This is to watch with hundreds of people laughing your ass off in a communal experience. And it was designed for that. When I did The Bubble for Netflix, I designed it to watch at home stoned while eating a sandwich.

I thought of it more as like a Simpsons episode. I'm going to try to imagine you at home. What do you want? You want something you can pause in the middle and go make your grilled cheese sandwich and come back. Maybe you watch the rest of it the next day. And I think that filmmakers are making that choice. What is the experience for each idea? I think movies are coming back.

I'm bullish on movies. The pandemic, we hit some dark points thinking about where is all this going? Is scripted TV just overrunning this? Are we just getting superheroes? But now we're hopefully out of it for the most part, the pandemic piece of it. I don't think we'll ever fully be out, but at least we've adjusted. And I just think movies, it still matters. There's still the DNA of them. And even something like Top Gun doing what it did and people feeling like they had to see it in the theater. I don't know. In your movie, we'll find out with Bros, because it tracked really well, right?

It killed in Toronto, and it's a movie that should succeed under the old formula. But I don't know. I don't know anymore. I don't know how to even calibrate a success in this day and age. Do you? Yeah, I mean, it's got 95 on Rotten Tomatoes. It kills in the movie theater.

It's a really hilarious, romantic, sweet movie. It works as well as anything we've ever done. But you do need people to go, I'm going to leave the house to see this. I'm not going to wait a few months for it to show up somewhere else. But I think people want a big comedy. We haven't had one in so long.

Oh, God. What was the last one? I can't even think. You'd have to go back three, four, five years? I mean, in terms of a big one, yeah, it's been a long time because when we did King of Staten Island, it was supposed to come out

in June of when the pandemic hit. We went straight to sell through where you could just buy it on your computer. So we hadn't had one since The Big Sick. Right. The Big Sick's a good one. That was five years ago.

So that'd be great. We're hopeful for bros. But it's important that we have more comedies because the world's rough. We can't live in a world without a break. We need a break. King of Staten Island, that's a weird one because I do feel like everybody ended up seeing it. Yes. But not in the conventional

way. It came at a moment when there was no new content coming out. And so when we released that on the internet, there hadn't been a movie in a while. And it wasn't a movie coming for a while. And so I think a ton of people watched it that way. And it was great because it really was a movie about first responders. television and then telling the story of Pete's father. I mean, it's a fictional movie, but it's about a lot of the feelings that firefighters have and the children of firefighters have. And I really felt like it was perfect for that moment for us to pay attention to those people. I was really proud of the way Pete was willing to express all of that because he went deep in his psychology about that because it's a very hard thing to get over a loss like that. Does he count as like a third kid for you?

I mean, you must worry about him the same way you worry about your kids in some ways, right? Well, certainly I've always rooted Pete on. We had a great time making that movie i really was scared while making it because i didn't want to traumatize pete yeah making him talk about this for years and reenact things it definitely was something that i was concerned about the whole time but he he really came to play and was a great actor and super funny and all his instincts about the movie were so right on in terms of the music and who to cast in it.

It was a great collaboration. It seems like over and over again, you've, you've, you've bought early on somebody that you felt like, I think this person's going to be a star. Like you're just like, if you were a sports GM,

you would have a lot of good drafts. People are like, oh man, Apatow, that 2012 NBA draft, he crushed it. All three of those picks are still in the league. What are you looking for? Because from afar, it looks like you're looking at people who stand out in some ways. They're like a one-on-ones. Not like unicorns, but there's only one version of them. And then you try to figure out how to

build something around them. Is that accurate? I think so. I come at it as a fan. So if there's somebody I see and I think, man, if they had a movie, I would run to it. That's really all it is. Because as a kid, that's what I thought.

I'd see Michael Keaton on the Mike Douglas show and I would think, man, I just want to see more of him. I wish he had a TV show. I wish he had a movie. And then if he had a TV show, I remember he had a show with Jim Belushi called Working Steps. Oh, yeah.

And I just was like tracking him like my friends were tracking athletes. And I would follow Pee Wee Herman's career. Oh my God, they gave him a movie. Or I knew Andy Kaufman and then suddenly he got cast on Taxi. So as a comedy nerd, it was like watching an athlete suddenly win the Cy Young Award. And I try to just do that the same way now. We made a movie this summer with the guys from Saturday Night Live, Please Don't Destroy.

Oh, yeah. And it's the same thing you just love what they do and now I can try to help them get one of their stories out there one of their movie ideas out there I'm just like assisting someone so they can make the thing that I wish I could watch I wish it existed and you'd be jealous if somebody else made it and you'd be like, oh, I knew they were going to like you want to be involved before.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, every once in a while there's someone who does something great and you think, oh, I wish I could have collaborated with that person. You know, when you watch something like Eastbound and Down. Oh my God.

You just think, well, this is the greatest show ever. Man, they must be having fun. You know, every once in a while, you're just jealous of the magic that's happening on some other program. I mean, we got to work with Danny on a bunch of things and Pineapple Express. But that was one that I would watch as a fan.

And it made me feel like I was a kid. Like, oh yeah, this is the greatest thing ever, every week. It's funny you mentioned the 80s comedy nerd thing because I was the same way. And you don't even realize you're doing it, but I was watching Letterman all the time. Sure. Watching the people on Carson.

And I used to love Seinfeld and, you know, not like the most dramatic take because Seinfeld was really funny, but he would come on Letterman and he would just kill. And I was always like, I like this guy, this guy, something good's going to happen with this guy. And when he made the pilot for NBC, it was like, we watched it. We watched it that summer. It was like, this is finally, he's getting a shot. I believe in this guy.

And then Seinfeld blew up and you feel like, I told you. I was there. I was there early. I had front row seats in Seinfeld. But there were a lot of those in the 80s. Some of them didn't make it for whatever reason through the 90s. Same thing. Jim Carrey was another one.

Jim Carrey, I mean, you were in some of the same comedy clubs. He used to do like Leonid Brezhnev and Bronson and Clint Eastwood. And it was like, who is this guy? But it took like an extra 10 years basically for it to happen. But you must have seen a bunch of those people in the comedy clubs. Well, I started doing sets at the Improv in the Valley and Jim Carrey would come in. And he was in a weird moment in his career

because he had gotten a TV series and it didn't really get big. He did a movie, it didn't get big. He did One Spittin', remember? With Lauren Hutton. Yeah. Just didn't make it. And maybe around that time,

he was in Peggy Sue Got Married, which is an incredible movie. But he was trying to figure out what to do and he had a manager who discouraged him from doing stand-up. He had decided, he left that management and decided that his future had to have stand-up in it. And he started doing clubs and improvising every night. He would improvise this whole act every night. And I'd watch him at the Valley Improv.

And I remember calling my manager and just going going this is the funniest man in the world and then my manager signed him which uh worked out for him but uh it was so special that it just and i've never seen anything like it since yeah it was just like a moment it was like if charlie chaplin started hanging out at the club and you you're like, oh, this is it. This is the monumental person. He's going on Mount Rushmore. And I'd watch him every night. He wasn't a big star. And then a year or two later, then the color hit and Ace Ventura hit.

And then the whole thing took off. But for a while, he was riotous in the club. And we would all just watch him from the back of the room. Yeah, I wonder how that even plays out now. Like, are there, you know, the cell phone era with comedians and just in general, the content? Like, I wonder if they're just people lurking behind the scenes that it's like,

because I always felt like Bill Burr, I never understood why Bill Burr wasn't bigger. And then he became Bill Burr. But it felt like there was like three, you'd always hear like, he's the comics comic and stuff like that. And it just never happened. I do think that's one of the good things

with the streamers is they've been able to get people's work in front of a lot of people and it's become a little bit more of a meritocracy. But for the most part. Bill Burr is the best. I mean, he's so funny, so smart, and a great actor. We worked with him on Crashing. Right.

And we did one episode with him and I just thought, oh my God, Bill is like so talented at this, yet I haven't seen a lot of huge opportunities for him. He was in Breaking Bad a couple of times.

Well, then you put him in the Pete Davidson movie and he's good in it. And he's unbelievable in it. And that was Pete's idea that he wanted Bird to play his dad. And because they really care about each other, you felt it.

And some of those scenes are improvised. And Bill, there's some great moments where just Bill. And now, you know, a lot of these guys, they're playing in hockey arenas. There's a lot of guys playing in hockey arenas. Like it's, you know,

but it's because they're so good that they really have- He played Fenway Park. Yeah. He filled out a baseball park. That's insane. I'm sure he's like pinching himself. What did you see in Billy Eichner?

Like when we talked about like that one-on-one thing, what was it about him that you were like, this guy should be in a movie? Well, Nick Stoller, who directed Forgetting Sarah Marshall, we've done a bunch of movies together. He said he wants to make a rom-com with Billy.

And I, of course, knew him from Nick's show, you know, Friends from College, Difficult People, and Billy on the Street. And that's an idea that I had tried to

do once before and didn't pull off, just a descript of a gay rom-com. And they were so passionate about it. And I thought, well, this will be fun. I mean, this is what I like to do, which is work with a star who also wants to write the script or co-write the script who's going to dig deep, get really personal, and this will be their passion project. I'd really like to be involved in the passion project. A lot of people take a lot of gigs, but they don't do too many. That's the

most important thing they've ever done. And it's fun to be around that moment. So you don't want to be the third movie in 2022 for the guy who's also in the superhero cape and then is also doing... You want it to be like their

life has revolved around this for two years. I guess so because I keep doing it. It may be that I'm not good at the other thing of making the movies with all the legends and from a script I found. I may be just bad at looking for scripts,

which is why we always write them, because I'm so bad at identifying things that are already written. But I do think that when someone sits their ass in a chair and really is willing to be as honest as you can be that the movies are way stronger and funnier well you put it's funny because your movies are still on all the all over the place and your kids are in a few of them in different stages of their life yes exactly which it's boy well i'm sure it was part of part of the plan even though didn't fully realize it yet, that you're capturing your kids.

It's almost like these amazing home movies where you're putting your kids in these movies at certain points in their life. You figure, oh, this would be cool later. So how cool is it later? Because I think that would be amazing to be like, oh, Funny People's on. They're my two daughters and they're little tiny kids. I remember I would go nuts if that even existed of my kids. The funny thing about funny people is Maude refuses to watch it because she hadn't seen it even though she's in it.

And then at some point she realized it irritated me that she'd never watched it. And now it's been the running gag for... She's just still sitting it out? It's a running gag for 13 years that she will not watch it. So sometimes when we're watching TV and she's like looking at her phone, I'll just switch on funny people. And then she leaves the room. It's just like her practical jokes with me that she will never watch it.

And just to irritate me. But, you know, when they were young, I just thought, whenever there are kids in movies, they don't seem like those people's kids. I can just tell from their interactions that it doesn't feel right. And I also thought, well, this is a great way to not have to deal with other people's kids. And the stage moms and the stage dads. Yeah, this will be a way for me to have a shorthand and get to it. And of course, I thought that they were great and funny and interesting young people.

But it was a way to make it authentic. You know, okay, that's Leslie's kids. And I think it really worked that way. We were digging up in Mrs. 40 about their relationship and their stress with each other as siblings. We could just roll three cameras and they would start having a fight and we would get it on camera. I mean, and it was, it was amazing how good they were and how they were able to just forget that they were making

a movie and they would just engage in battle, uh, on camera and with a crew watching. I mean, did you ever have a moment where you were like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have done this? Maybe putting my kids in the movie was a mistake. Like they're melting down in front of 100 people. There was only one day where I thought, this is terrible. Which is we were doing The 40-Year-Old Virgin

and I wanted to get just some shots of people buying things at the stereo store. And so I had Paul Rudd walk in to deal with me holding Iris. And Iris is like four. No, she's younger than four. She's probably like three. And the idea was just that I would be talking to Paul, he's selling a little like toy robot or something.

Ira starts crying, like really screaming, crying. But because I was maybe tuned out as a human being in that moment, I thought, well, I'll just keep going and not say cut. And the joke will be me asking questions and ignoring that my child is crying. That was my thought in the moment. And she's crying hard. And then I started yelling at Paul that you're making me cry. This robot's making, I'm sorry, making my daughter cry. And I'm like, shut the robot, shut off the robot. You're upsetting her. Shut off the robot. I may have put the footage on the DVD,

but it is child abuse. It's just child abuse. There's no way to get around. I should have just took care of my daughter at that moment. I just thought it's so funny how this is turning into a nightmare. But that was the only point where I really doubted doing any of that. So do you see a moment where you're ever working with either daughter again

in a project or is that now that they're, now that they're older, is it too risky? No, no. I, I love to do this as 50 and I have an idea for it. Oh,

so I've been the, you know, sketching it out. So it might, it might have to turn into This Is 52. We'll see. But I definitely have... This Is 55?

A concept. You know, This Is 40 is on Netflix right now. And it's weird because you make these things. That movie came out 10 years ago. But it shows up on Netflix. I look on Netflix and it's the number three movie on Netflix. And I realized probably more people are watching This Is 40 now than watched it when it came out in a theater.

It's all around the world and all these countries that it never was released in. And suddenly everyone's talking about it and everyone's tweeting about it and I'm getting messages and then people talk to you as if it just came out. It's almost like time disappears. Yeah.

And to most people who watch it, it's just the new movie we made. It's not a movie from 10 years ago. It's just Judd has a new movie. This is one. It's four hours. It came along at a really important time when people are worried about freedom of speech and where's comedy going. And there's Carlin just basically, I mean, for me, the most fascinating part was he kind of hits that, I don't want to say rock bottom,

but for him in the late seventies, where it's like, all right, what's my career now? And then he basically goes in the lab and just like a prize fighter ends up doing the best work of his career from that point on. But that was what I took away. What was the thing that was most mentioned to you?

What I thought was interesting about that was that George Carlin was this amazing comedian who kept changing every few years. Yeah. And then he was at the comedy store and he saw Sam Kinison and was really impressed and thought, I don't want to spend the rest of my career breathing in his smoke, you know, breathing in his dust. And it inspired him to go farther and get deeper and darker.

So right at the moment when maybe he would have gotten a little repetitive he suddenly went hard and then he did that jamming in new york special which might be the best of of all of them yeah i mean i was very happy because sometimes you feel like these things happen for a reason the documentary came out right when the row versus Wade was going down. And we're all debating what's funny and what are the rules and what crosses the line. And he talked about that stuff his entire career. And he was very outspoken on a lot of these issues and everything that he was passionate about,

we're dealing with. He warned about money in politics. He warned about the pharmaceutical companies and on and on and on. And it seemed like every time something happened in the news, people would pass around George Carlin clips. They wouldn't pass around any clips of anybody else. That's what I thought was weird. Like there isn't a, whatever, a Bill Hicks clip, or there were so many great political people. It was just Carlin stuff because he had the perfect take on so many issues and both sides claimed him democrats claimed him republicans claims him on some things and it just seemed like we needed to hear from him again and then the ratings were really high

like a ton of people you know watched it It won the Emmy, which was incredible. Yeah, congrats. And I'm just happy for his family. He never won an Emmy before. So I feel like people like George Carlin, if there isn't a great documentary about them, they can be lost to history. These documentaries become the way in for people.

People will watch the Michael Jordan documentary in 30 years before they ever watch an old game. They need someone to organize what happened in documentary form to understand who they were, their place in history. And then maybe you go, I'm going to watch that whole series again. I noticed that we did the Fab Five doc way back. It was like, I don't know, 12, 13 years ago. And Jalen produced it. And we became really good friends after that and he was saying how until that documentary they just the fab five kind of came and went everybody had their opinions but they

hadn't been organized correctly and then the impact of what they did hadn't been dissected correctly and then that documentary happened. And he's like, that literally changed our lives for the rest of my life. Like now people get it. They see, you know, the right way to look at everything we did. And it was just like, I'm so glad it exists. And it was just on and on and on. And it completely changed. So I always thought like, when you're trying to convince somebody who might not want to do a documentary or the estate or whatever, like that's really the best case you have is like, if, if somebody does this correctly, trying to convince somebody who might not want to do a documentary or the estate or whatever like that's really the best case you have is like if if somebody does this correctly this is a document

of all the great stuff they did you know and for better and worse if it's in the right hands like this is what you want this will this will live on past you if you do it correctly so yeah a great example that is the metata World Peace documentary, which was on Showtime. It's fantastic. But I think most people couldn't have told you really what the arc of his life and his issues were and his achievements were.

And it really humanized him. I thought it was a great documentary. And of course, I went into documentaries as a direct result of you. Because the first thing I did was 30 for 30. Oh, that's right. You did Doc, but I was gone. I left as you started to make it. But if you didn't do 30 for 30, if that didn't exist, it was a great way in for me to... And I do most of my docs with Michael

Bonfiglio, who did Bo Jackson 30 for 30. Which was incredible. That was one of my favorites because we didn't even really totally have his stories. He just gets hurt. And it's just sad. So it's like, alright, how

is this a documentary? And then he did a great job of like, no, the documentary is the legend of Bo. And then, you know, he did a great job of like, no, the documentary is the legend of Bo. Like it was. And, and then once, once we cracked that, that became, and it became one of those things where it's like, look, it's fucking Bo Jackson. People are going to watch this. We just have to, just have to make sure we're steering the car, but people are going to want to be in the car. And that's what it was. I mean, we had that, me and mike did a documentary about the avet brothers

called may it last oh but you mean my wife's favorite documentary yeah yeah and so you so mike followed him around for a long time and he kept saying like i don't know if there's a story here because they're just nice and they're great and he's following them you know make an album and and then we realized well that's kind of the story that some people are just good. Some people are like good people making music and there's a brotherhood there. No, that's about the brotherhood.

That's why that works. It's, you just, you're hanging out with that guys, those guys trying to figure out, all right, what's different about these guys? And it's really like, you know,

every music documentary is about, like we used to, we used to email about the Eagles doc and it's about how it's going to fall apart and blow up. And the Avid brothers were the opposite. It's just like, no, these guys are in on each other. This is good.

These guys just want to play music together. They're happy. They're the best. What is your favorite three documentaries in your mind that you were a part of or not a part of? What are the ones you go back to? Well, the Eagles one's definitely one of them.

I thought the part one. I just thought that was the perfect one. I thought out of the 30 for 30s, at least from the first two volumes, the one that I was really impressed by was the, like that I think has happily now are the ones where it's like, instead of interviewing 20 people, I did 50. And I know I only had to fill 90 minutes, but I literally interviewed everybody you could possibly think of. And I went all in. Those are always the ones that do the best. And like you did the Carlin thing and it's like, you didn't do this. You gotta fucking do it. Like this guy was a truth teller and he's aged really well. And you know, you gotta, you gotta be all in. It can't be like, Oh, this is 90 minutes, George Carlin. He was really funny. Like you gotta like throw yourself into it, which I think is

what you do. I think what you mentioned about the Roe v. Wade, that it was crazy. Cause there was no winners coming out of that story. Carlin might've been the only winner. His clips were popping up all over the place. And it was like, he's become this Mad Libs for like, oh, we're in this situation. Oh, there's 140 seconds of Carlin to explain it from 1988. It's pretty strange. Well, he had all these bits that he was basically said, they're not looking out for you. Politicians are not looking out for you. And and it and some of it is dark and i think sadly people looked at some of it back then and thought oh it's too dark he's just gone over the edge and now you watch it and you think may not be dark enough i mean right you could go farther

than this and that's why we did this big montage of all his material over current news footage because it is what he was talking about it is like the logical results of that kind of polarization and lack of education and lack of interest in civics and voting that it's going to fully melt down

the documentary I was the most jealous of and in awe of was the Beatles one I have to get back just because the documentary I was the most jealous of and in awe of was the Beatles one. Um, I had to get back just cause these people that we'd always been fascinated by. And we knew there was a little more underneath the hood and just assumed the hood was never going to open. And then the hood finally fucking opened. And I was like,

Oh my God, we're looking at the engine. This is insane. And watching them, I mean, you know, you've heard all these points before, but I was just completely in awe of that whole thing. For a week, I was just watching it like, oh my God, I just can't believe this exists.

Yeah, it would give you like a tingle. Like every time they would like start trying to write a song and you're like, wait a second, this is turning into my favorite song of all time. See it happen. And I think that people become more open to being creative or starting a band or doing anything after watching that because it shows process. You know, Beatles songs are written by just a couple of dudes in a room with some instruments banging around. Is this good? Do you like this? Hey, maybe I could do that. And you go, oh, anyone can do it. Some people are more talented than others.

Magic may happen. It may not happen. But there's no difference between your band and that band just sitting in a room trying to figure it out. And I love just how they, you know, certainly they're very English, so they're not, they don't reject each other. There's a politeness, but they really

support each other's ideas for the most part. Maybe like George when he played a couple of those amazing songs and they were just like, well, what else do you have? That was brutal. That's like if you work for a TV show and you're in a room pitching jokes. When you pitch a joke,

if you're like Larry Sanders to the head writer and you're in a room pitching jokes, when you pitch a joke, if you're like Larry Sanders to the head writer and you're in a group of usually 10, when they don't like the joke, all they do is ignore you. They don't say no. They just look away and just ponder what else it could be. And so there was a little of that with the Beatles. Like, okay, just a lack of energy coming back is the rejection. When I worked for Kimmel Show and we used to have the two hour session every morning where we're pitching ideas,

that was the worst, was the kind of the non-recondition, let's move on to the next idea. But it was like, oh, so you hated that one, but it's just dead silence. You must have identified with some of the Beatles, like the creativepsons room. You know, they're pitching ideas, you know, Paul McCartney is working on a song,

people are pitching things, he's like telling what he likes or doesn't like. They get an idea from Mal, their assistant. Suddenly Mal's pitching lines in the song, they're using those lines. Or, you know, there's a moment where he's like talking about changing the order. And that is how all these spaces... It's like yes and

in improv, you're supposed to yes and everybody. I thought, yeah, this is like a comedy room, and you need a showrunner, and someone's got to get the trains on time. The funniest part of that movie, I think, is that they're in a rush to finish

all these songs for a TV special with an accompanying album. They're going to try to do it really fast. But the reason why they're doing it fast is because Ringo is supposed to act in a movie. He's going to be in the Magic Christian with Peter Sellers. And so the whole band is just rushing and maybe risking making a crappy record because Ringo has something to do. And it's not even something that impressive to do. It's not like he's going to be in The Godfather, right?

He's made some movie none of us even have probably heard of 50 years later. I mean, it was the guy that wrote, Dr. Strangelove wrote it. And I think at the time people thought, wow. Oh, this is a big deal for Ringo. Yeah, yeah. This is the next one. But I just love that there's also that respect in the band.

Like, all right, we got however many weeks. Okay, we got to finish. Yeah, because Ringo's got to go. And they're all rushing it. And no one ever says, fuck that movie. We're not done yet.

And no one ever says, this whole project doesn't work. Can we just stop? Like they all believe that they'll get it done, that they'll get 10, 12 songs. And how many weeks was it? Yeah, it was basically three and a half weeks. Yeah, nobody said,

wait, we're the greatest band of all time. Why are we rushing? Yeah, let's just do the rest after Ringo's movie. And I love the madness of that because there's so much belief in themselves. Like, no, you give us a month.

We can make one of the greatest records of all time. I mean, you have to be that delusional as a young creative person to be great. You have to think that it's possible. So when you're, or, you know, if you're Paul Thomas Anderson and you're making boogie nights,

you're delusional, partly in your belief in yourself. You have to believe in yourself. It is like a basketball player saying, give me the rock with five seconds left. They think they're going to put it in. And that's the thing I try to take from it. You can't lose touch with the madness of confidence

because the creativity won't come unless you believe in yourself. We talked about that at the Boogie Nights, how it leads with the Steadicam shot, right? He's made one movie and he's like, all right, Scorsese's good for a Steadicam shot. Watch this. I'm going to do the 2.0 version. He was like 26 years old, but he did it. He pulled it off. It's like three minutes. It's amazing. But just to even, like the amount of like cockiness and confidence you have to have in yourself as a talent to be like, nah, this is going to work. I'm going to do this. And that was why Burt Reynolds hated him. Burt Reynolds was like, who the fuck is this guy? I'm Burt Reynolds.

Was this guy a supporter of me around? Little wispy 26-year-old? Before we go, if you could go under the hood with anything comedy-related, like that Get Back Beatles doc, what would you pick? My pick would be one of the first three SNL seasons for like eight weeks, maybe like season three, when it's Belushi and Aykroyd are still there, Bill Murray's on, the show is like 30 million people a night.

It's a phenomenon. And if they just had a week of just putting the show together for a week, I think that's my number one pick. I think the one that I always wish existed that maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, is Richard Pryor when he did Richard Pryor Live. Oh, yeah.

I met the director once and he said to me, and by the way, maybe I misunderstood and I could be wrong, but he said that they had shot him preparing for it, like sets at the comedy store, and they thought they would be a documentary element to the film. And then the set was so incredible

that they didn't use any of the behind the scenes of him preparing for the set and writing the set because they just went with the set. And I always thought, is there footage laying around of Richard Pryor at the Comedy Store figuring out that set? At that point in his life yeah this is the peak of Richard Pryor writing because from what I hear from people he used to show up and he would eat it he would just have nothing and then maybe get like a few lines and

the next day he'd come back and he would eat it for of it, but he'd get a few lines out of it. And then suddenly the set becomes mediocre, but it's building. And he had no issue with bombing as he discovered it. And he would just come back every night and add more stuff and experiment. And then suddenly it would turn into the greatest set of all time. But it wasn't like he wrote the whole thing and showed up. He had very little and, very little and it was bumpy, but he didn't care. And he would find it. And I would love to see that. Oh my God. I remember the first volume of 30 for 30, we met with Albert Maisel's people,

who was like, he was like one of the famous first wave directors we had for documentaries. And I wasn't in this meeting, but I heard about it after. And I was like, or maybe I was in the meeting. It's so long ago, I can't remember. But it was like, what do you, you know, any ideas? And they threw a couple and they were like, Ali. But, you know, we did that thing with Ali. We're like, what thing? It's like, oh, the Ali Holmes fight.

You know, we followed him that whole time. But, you know, the fight was so depressing. Like, you know, couldn't do a documentary about that after. And we're like, you followed him the whole time? It was like one of those moments. Like, what do you mean? Where's the footage? Oh, it's somewhere.

It's like, it is? And then that turned into, I think, like the fourth or fifth one we ever did. And it's really good, by the way. It's one of the last great 30 for 30s. And for people listening, the Holmes fight was really the official end of Ali. He just gets demolished and he's never the same after. And they have the lead up to it where you can tell,

this guy shouldn't, he should be hanging it up by now. But it's leading toward him just getting the shikdik out of him. And it was amazing, but it was like one of those under the hood things where it's like, you have all this? I wonder how many other things like that

are even out there. It's just like, oh, this footage is in the middle of nowhere. You can't fight with a mustache. That's what I think. Yeah, that's the big lesson. As soon as he had the mustache, you're like,

something's going wrong here. Yeah, that is an incredible documentary. There's also a documentary, I think it's called Fighting Ali, which is about all the different people who fought Ali. You forget that some of them beat him,

but maybe they didn't want Ali to lose. So on Decisions, there was one or two where they say, Ali probably lost that fight. Yeah, he had a couple of grim ones. He lost his reflexes. But I think earlier in his career, there were some fights

that they go, yeah, that guy got screwed. They gave it to Ali. Ken Norton definitely got screwed on one of them. All right, Jed, bros, we can go to the theater and see it, but there's also an on-demand piece, right? At some point? No, no on-demand.

Not for six weeks? How long? Many months, many months. Oh, good. Oh, so you're really, you're to go on the old school model on this. No, we're 3,000 theaters. This is, you know, this is like putting out train wreck and it's a great time in the audience.

I mean, it's one of those, you know, I remember when I saw something about Mary and I just had the best night ever. This is one of those movies. So I'm excited to have that out there. I mean, I think that people will appreciate it. You also get to see

Billy's sense of humor and the sense of humor of the LGBTQ plus world where they can give each other a hard time. Yeah. And it's really, really hilarious. I hope people will go check it out. All right. Good to see you as always.

I'm glad you're doing well. Say hi to the fam. I will. Take care. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti. Thanks to Dylan Berkey. Don't forget, I'm going to be on The Town with Matt Bellany on Friday.

I was on the Prestige TV podcast on Wednesday talking about the Dahmer show. And go check out the hottest take as well. Rewatchables, Boogie Nights. I will see you on Sunday night. Hopefully there's a little Pat's Upset we can talk about. See you then. On the wayside I'm a person Never lost it

I don't have To ever forget